Originally posted by vegggas
The 8000/8300 starts viewing a LIVE recording in progress and allows viewing within the 1 hour buffer window only. The Goldwasser patent protects the start at any point in a curent recording, but does not prohibit viewing within the buffer memory.

vegggas

Well that explains it. Posted a question right after I got my 8300 for that very issue. I set a football game to record, and I started watching about 2 hours into it...tried to rewind all the way to the beginning of the game, but it would only let me go back to the beginning of the buffer (i.e 1 hr). Once the recording was done, I could watch the whole thing. Didn't even think that Tivo would have patented something like that, but I guess they were smart to do so.

DN

Originally posted by vegggas
The 8000/8300 starts viewing a LIVE recording in progress and allows viewing within the 1 hour buffer window only. The Goldwasser patent protects the start at any point in a curent recording, but does not prohibit viewing within the buffer memory.

I am sure that is the argument that SA would use. It may be successful, but hopefully we will never know. The piece of that patent that is potentially more scary to SA is the ability to record one thing while watching another on the same archival medium. That is a fully supported feature in SA's DVRs that is listed as a "feature of the invention" in the patent.

All of this sounds like great fodder for either The Peoples Court or perhaps an episode of Law & Order: Trial By Jury.

Apparently we have some attorneys or want to be attorneys out there. Any script writers?:)

ROTFLMAO!!

It could be too that parts of the feature-set are, indeed, licensed from Tivo, though I doubt it. I suspect Tivo would already be in court if their lawyers felt something was amiss. SA is not the only company potentially affected as Motorola, LG, and others make DVRs, don't they?

I, too, noticed that I sometimes couldn't start all the way from the beginning. I know vegggas has talked about the buffer a lot in the past, but I never put 2 and 2 together.

What can I say. I was a wannabe patent attorney in college, so I was an engineering prelaw major that just ended up just being an engineer. I will gladly appear on Trial by Jury, only if I can have alot of scenes with Amy Carlson, she is a hottie.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, Tivo has been passive in their patent defense and there are a number of hardcore Tivo devotees that think that Tivo should get more aggressive. All I want out of this is a HD dual tuner DVR that does what I want it to at a reasonable price. Hopefully this will all shake out and we will all be happy with the outcome.

Edited to correct some grammar and spelling.

If the patent is limiting SA's functionality, then my question is when does the patent expire? Maybe we should start a countdown!

Originally posted by mfabel
If the patent is limiting SA's functionality, then my question is when does the patent expire? Maybe we should start a countdown!
Just a guess, but I thought it was exclusive for more 11 years. I would have to read through all the patent stuff again, but, I'm over my insomnia now:rolleyes:

vegggas

I'm not a patent attorney nor a script writer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

What do you want to know? :D :D :D

Actually, the above is just a disclaimer that I really don't know what I'm about to talk about, but it is based on my best knowledge...

Also, I don't mean to get this thread too far off topic, but I thought I would share the following...

Based on the information I have the patents were granted in 2000-2002, and given they typically last for 14 years, that would put expiration somewhere around 2014-2016, depending on the exact patent in queston.

But, hold the show, the typical patent term starts when the patent is filed and there is some controversy over when the original patents were filed since some were purchased from IBM. One common version of the story says they were filed in 1998 and thus they will expire in 2012, another 7 years.

To muddy the waters further, some have claimed that most of Tivo's patents are not enforceable since "prior art" exists in the form of VCR's that could perform essentially some of the same functions (I currently still have a Panasonic VCR that I purchased in 1994 that rewinds a few seconds when you hit play while fast forwarding and Tivo has a patent for that feature). Apparently Microsoft believes this to be true since they have the same feature in MCE.

Should SA/SARA implement this feature? I think they are on pretty safe ground, but like I said, I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so take it for what it's worth.

Best,
David

You just gotta love someone who doesn't want to take this thread too far off-topic. IMO, this thread has been so far off topic so many times now that I'm not sure any new folks even know what the thread was about when it started. :)

It's difficult to stay strictly on-topic when discussing the 8300, etc., because most discussions overlap so many areas. How can you discuss needed features without discussing Tivo and then patents. My goal when starting this thread was simply to update vegggas' fine work on the 8000. I didn't want to wait until Las Vegas released the 8300 there since no one knew how long that might have been at the time.

Anyway, my main goal in these recent discussions is to keep the trashing to a minimum while discussing why the 8300 does not, at this time, have Tivo-like features that some have come to expect in a DVR. I believe all the information in these posts helps folks accept the more limited feature-set and understand the need for some of these workarounds, etc.

That said, I tend to agree with MarketingProf. My gut feeling is that most patents leave enough wiggle room in them to allow features to be "copied" as long as very specific techniques are not used. Sometimes the difficulty is finding ways to do the same things using different techniques and I think that is part of the case here. It could be too that SA, or whomever defined the initial requirements, simply didn't think of this particular feature at the time or didn't think it was important enough to warrant doing then. I don't join in progress that often and I know there are others here who don't either. I also don't know how many Tivo users do eitther, but I do knwo that the ones who do are very vocal about it. :)

All they need to do is GPL the code they're using and we'll make the modifications ourselves, then send back our tweaks to be made to the original source code :D

With the lawsuit that Tivo has filed against Echostar over its DVR, it shouldn't be too long before we find out just how well Tivo wrote its patents. They are targetting October for jury selection.

Originally posted by Azlen
With the lawsuit that Tivo has filed against Echostar over its DVR, it shouldn't be too long before we find out just how well Tivo wrote its patents. They are targetting October for jury selection.

Which means that the case will drag on probably another 6 months and then they will have a decision.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by hookbill
Which means that the case will drag on probably another 6 months and then they will have a decision.:rolleyes: Only 6 months? Boy are you optimistic. I bet you always see the glass have full, right? :D :D :D

And this is probably why:TiVo, founded in 1997, has more than 1 million subscribers. EchoStar surpassed 1 million DVR subscribers in September and has more than 9 million subscribers overall. Looks like Tivo may wait for the "magic" 1,000,000 subscriber base to enhance any settlement or award. :)

This probably won't affect everyone but one of the guys on our local HD thread is saying the following:

I am not sure of when this will happen , but both the SA 8000HD and the 8300 will get a firmware upgrade shortly. Mainly, the boxes will no longer shut down at night. . Regarding the 8300 specifically. the SATA port will be activated, an enhanced recording menu and supposedly an improvement in analog PQ. I'll keep you posted.

This person has been on the money every time and it usually happens shortly after he posts about it. I'll look forward to better SD pq. This is for Adelphia Cable, NE Ohio but perhaps others will get it too.

The 1.87.xx.xx (specifically the 1.87.16.1) software is used for all the 8000, and 8300 SD and HD units. This frees up much more memory on the STB and improves image quality. SATA is enabled before this upgrade in the 1.85.XX realm, depending on the MSO options list.
These versions have been around since around January or February, but may need tweaking in each system to be compatible with the older equipment and other running aps.

vegggas

where do i check up the firmare number on my sa8300hd???

thanks
martin

Diagnostic Mode. There are two ways to enter the Diagnostic Mode:

Press and hold the Select button on the front of the unit until the Mail light starts to flash, then press the INFO button.

Press and hold the Pause button on the remote until the Mail light starts to flash (around 10-15 seconds), then press the Page Up (-) button.

Finding SARA Software Version. Enter Diagnostic Mode (see above item) and scroll through the screens until you find the one entitled "Software Versions". The version number will be in a format similar to 1.85.14.3.From the first post in this thread. I know the first post is a few pages back, but like other threads of this type, that is where the tips are maintained current.

wait minute...i think i ve done that when i installed it!!!
so the firmaware shoudl be in there then..hmm

thanks
Martin

Well, it never hurts to check the firmware from time to time to see if it's changed. I jot it down and then when I see folks start talking about this version or that, I check to see if my cableco is up to date. Right now, the 1.87.16.1 is the latest. It has increased PQ, cut way down on audio/video glitches, etc. Of course, having the latest firmware doesn't automatically mean you get all the latest options. For example, the First Run option has been in the firmware for sometime, but many cableco's are just now upgrading the IPG data to include the First Run flag needed for the option to appear. Coincidently, many cableco's are upgrading the IPG at the same time they install this firmware version. This makes it appear that the option is "new" even though it is not.

Can someone advise what might be wrong?

I picked up the 8300HD on Friday, I have TWC in Dayton. At first the box didn't provide audio or video signal. After drop/re-add from office, I get audio and component output but no HDMI. With just HDMI connected, the box seems to sense connection to my 4805 and 1080i displays on front of cable box....but still no picture.

I watched via component yesterday but upon startup this morning, I got a message on HDMI input and component (...your display doesn't support HDCP...). Talking with TWC, they rebooted again and at startup I was able to see the navigation menu after passport initialized..it flickered back and forth a few times then displayed the HDCP warning again.

TWC is trying but no ones been able to figure it out?

Is it TWC or something in my setup?

Originally posted by dmcdayton
Can someone advise what might be wrong?

I picked up the 8300HD on Friday, I have TWC in Dayton. At first the box didn't provide audio or video signal. After drop/re-add from office, I get audio and component output but no HDMI. With just HDMI connected, the box seems to sense connection to my 4805 and 1080i displays on front of cable box....but still no picture.

I watched via component yesterday but upon startup this morning, I got a message on HDMI input and component (...your display doesn't support HDCP...). Talking with TWC, they rebooted again and at startup I was able to see the navigation menu after passport initialized..it flickered back and forth a few times then displayed the HDCP warning again.

TWC is trying but no ones been able to figure it out?

Is it TWC or something in my setup?

I've seen this discussed many times. I believe you have to wait for a download to come through, it may take a couple of days.

I'm not certain on that however, so you may want to take some time and do a search to see what the solution is. I know I get that message sometimes if I start my box on the tuner that has the box set up to S videio, however as soon as I turn to the hdmi tuner it goes away.

Mine does this HDCP message every now and then. I have to unplug the unit, wait about 10 seconds, then plug it back in again to get rid of it. Not quite sure what causes it, but that seems to be the quick fix for me. Your issue is probably the unit. Have you tried switching out the box for a new one?

Hello -
I just discovered this site today and I apologize if this has been asked, but 39 pages was a bit much to read through (I did get through about 5 tho :D )

The main thing that bugs me about the PG is the inability to sort by favorites on the guide itself. I realize you can bounce from channel to channel using favorites, but the fact that you have to look at literally every channel on the guide is so frustrating. Anyone know of any fixes that are coming down the pipe on this?

I just switched from VOOM (rip) and on the PG you could sort a myriad of ways. All Channels, Favorites, Movies, Sports, Music, PPV and it would only select channels in the guide which fit those criteria. This made it a much more efficent use of time.

Originally posted by kabota
Hello -
I just discovered this site today and I apologize if this has been asked, but 39 pages was a bit much to read through (I did get through about 5 tho :D )

The main thing that bugs me about the PG is the inability to sort by favorites on the guide itself. I realize you can bounce from channel to channel using favorites, but the fact that you have to look at literally every channel on the guide is so frustrating. Anyone know of any fixes that are coming down the pipe on this?

I just switched from VOOM (rip) and on the PG you could sort a myriad of ways. All Channels, Favorites, Movies, Sports, Music, PPV and it would only select channels in the guide which fit those criteria. This made it a much more efficent use of time.

First, welcome to the forum. Always glad to have somebody new join in.

Second, no. Not to my knowledge. The one who knows about all future stuff is vegggas. I don't recall him saying anything about that.

I don't know what cable system your with but comcast has a deal with TiVo. That does have the feature your looking for. However it will be at least 18 months before they have that available.

question: i will be getting one of these on thurs. as i am switching from VOOM to CVC IO i have read the guide and scanned this board i notice there are outputs for HDTV and one for Ch2-699 and800+(regular video) does that mean i have to hook this up to 2 inputs in my tv/av receiver?? or will the HDTV be good enough (yGP) i hope i can just switch the cables out of VOOM which replaced Dish for HDTV oh also i use optical audio as it goes into that in my yamaha reciever-will that work here--thanks in advance

One video hookup via component cables to your receiver and one digital audio hookup via optical cable will work just fine. I have a Yamaha HTR-5760.

This has probably been covered before.....perhaps earlier in this thread, and if so.......I apologize.

If I want to record a cable series that is not on every week, but most weeks, and it is on a network that repeats the same show, a couple times during the week............what is the best way to set the recording.....so that it records the show every week.

If I set the thing like a vcr...with time and channel....it records the same timeslot every week, and if it is not on that week, I get something else recorded.

If I choose the setting..."record in this timeslot every week", it seems that I get both friday nights recording, and the rerun recorded on tuesday night, also at 10 pm.

If I choose the setting...."record in any timeslot" , I get multiple recordings of the same show, which shows at multiple different times during the week.

What would be optimal......is a setting JUST for THIS SHOW in THIS timeslot on THIS day. Am I missing something, or is there no setting like this?

Originally posted by Tachy
This has probably been covered before.....perhaps earlier in this thread, and if so.......I apologize.

If I want to record a cable series that is not on every week, but most weeks, and it is on a network that repeats the same show, a couple times during the week............what is the best way to set the recording.....so that it records the show every week.

If I set the thing like a vcr...with time and channel....it records the same timeslot every week, and if it is not on that week, I get something else recorded.

If I choose the setting..."record in this timeslot every week", it seems that I get both friday nights recording, and the rerun recorded on tuesday night, also at 10 pm.

If I choose the setting...."record in any timeslot" , I get multiple recordings of the same show, which shows at multiple different times during the week.

What would be optimal......is a setting JUST for THIS SHOW in THIS timeslot on THIS day. Am I missing something, or is there no setting like this?

I have the same problem with Deadwood on HBO. Also it seems Law & Order can get repeated on Saturday from time to time but Deadwood is the best example.

Your not missing anything. That's the way the 8300 works. Since it isn't on every week I would just use "record in this timel slot on this channel". I think you mentioned it above as "record in this timeslot every week". The 8300 doesn't really have that setting but I think you meant what I said.

What I do with Deadwood is record single showings, watch it weekly, and as soon as I'm done watching I set up another recording.

This all may seem a bit complicated, but please keep in mind that what the 8300 does considering the limitations of dealing with every cable company is in fact quite remarkable.

Yes......that is probably the same setting........I was typing from memory....and didn't remember exactly what the choice said.

I guess I will keep it the same.......and just erase the tuesday night show......it is easier than remembering to set the recording every week.

Just to clarify, it's not the 8300 per se, it's the software being run on it and the IPG being used. :)

Assuming you are running SARA software, once the cableco upgrades their IPG to include the First Run Flag, you will see a new recording option, something like "Record new first run episodes on this channel". The option is already in the software, but it needs the flag to be included in the IPG for the option to show in the options list. Until then, you are limited to the options you already have and the one you are using is as good as any.

Hookbill - thanks for the insight, and welcome :)

DDAZ - thanks for the tips. I live in AZ as well and use Cox as my cable provider, but I cannot get your 15 minute skip ahead trick to work. All that happens is my channel 800 inicator goes from one time to the next, like I am searching for what is coming on at a later time.
I pressed the ff button, then the arrows next to the select button. Any ideas?

kabota, as indicated by the title "PassPort Related Tips (May or may not work with SARA software):" of the part of the first post where you found that tip, the 15 second skip ahead/back is only for those systems using Passport software, not the SARA software that we use here in AZ. This thread was originally intended only for SARA users, but some folks asked that a few Passport-specific items be added when no on one would start a separate Passport thread. So, I simply added a Passport area to the end of the first post and added that tip. Most tips work on both sets of software, but unfortunately this is one that doesn't.

For what it's worth, Cablevision has hinted to us that an upcoming version of SARA will have a 128x FF/RW added. Still would prefer a 15 or 30 min skip, but 128x is better than 64x.

As long as they improve the FF at the same time. Mine freeze frames sometimes and takes a while to catch up (usually forcing me to rewind as the commercials will have already finished).

Originally posted by Lampei
As long as they improve the FF at the same time. Mine freeze frames sometimes and takes a while to catch up (usually forcing me to rewind as the commercials will have already finished).

That got fixed on my last download.

Here's something interesting I found out. I had a 40 hour power outage due to a snow storm in my area starting Sunday just before 9:00 pm est. As a result several shows did not get recorded.

After the power returned yesterday I double checked my "to be recorded" list, and all of the shows that did not get recorded were not listed any longer.

I've noticed that as soon as a show starts recording that you have a "record all showings, time slot" that as soon as the recording starts it already has the next weeks showing on the 8300's to do list. So apparently when a show gets missed due to something like a black out you will need to add those shows back on again.

Dave, I don't know if this has been talked about before but you may want to add this to your tips.

Originally posted by hookbill
Dave, I don't know if this has been talked about before but you may want to add this to your tips. I will do that. I'm not sure how this would happen, but it should be easy enough to duplicate, just pull the power cable for 40 hours. :)

I do believe though that I read a post or 2 somewhere about this, though it was not due to a power outage, but to simply leaving the 8300 unplugged for a certain amount of time, like when moving to a new home, etc. I've got too many things to record for the next couple of weeks to try to duplicate this, but maybe some others can confirm it for us, though I certainly believe you.

On another note, for those of you discussing FF speeds, AFAIK the current speeds are 4x, 10x, and 30x, but they may have increased with the latest software release. The freeze has indeed been fixed and my Tips post includes ideas on how to minimize the freeze for those who still have older software. The key is how quickly or slowly you hit the FF/REW buttons. Of course, all this applies to SARA software, folks need to be careful not to start confusing SARA with Passport and I urge newbies to verify their software before posting.

Originally posted by lexluthor
For what it's worth, Cablevision has hinted to us that an upcoming version of SARA will have a 128x FF/RW added. Still would prefer a 15 or 30 min skip, but 128x is better than 64x. What's really needed is a ruled slider like those you see on PCs. It should show the length with 1, 2 or 5 minute ticks and let you slide an arrow to the point where you want to start.

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ

On another note, for those of you discussing FF speeds, AFAIK the current speeds are 4x, 30x, and 100x.

Are you sure? I thought it was 4x, 32x and 64x, at least on my system. The difference between 64x and 100x would be easy to test, I suppose, if I have the time.

No, I'm not sure and I have no clue where I pulled those numbers from. :) I've edited my post to give the original 4/10/30 speeds with the caveat that they may have increased with later software releases. I would be interested to know just how you verify actual speeds, though I suppose you could simply time how long it takes to get to a specific spot with each speed. Thanks for keeping me honest, not that I was trying to be dishonest. :D

Edit: It just took 3 minutes to FF2 and 1 minute to FF3 through a 30 minute program, so I guess I can safely say my speeds using the latest SARA software are 4x, 10x, and 30x.

Have a question....my 8300HD has turned off at least a half dozen times in the last 10 days and rebooted. Most recent is yesterday and this morning at approx the same time, around 5:30am. Cox is sending over a tech to check it out tomorrow, everything was working okay up until 10 days ago. Should I do a hard reboot or just let the tech come out?

Originally posted by ayanomich
Have a question....my 8300HD has turned off at least a half dozen times in the last 10 days and rebooted. Most recent is yesterday and this morning at approx the same time, around 5:30am. Cox is sending over a tech to check it out tomorrow, everything was working okay up until 10 days ago. Should I do a hard reboot or just let the tech come out?

Depending on the software you have installed perhaps it's suppose to turn off if you leave it on. The one's in my area all do that, it's suppose to get fixed during the next upgrade.

What good would a hard reboot do, if in fact it's already rebooting?

Sounds to me like you got a CSR who doesn't know what they are talking about. I'd let the tech come out and see what he has to say.

what if the sleep mod is active..but no he said reboot..so its the firmware being uploaded mybe...

anyhow

I am using the 8300HD with component on my Grand Wega II. The 8300HD has HDMI capability and the GWII (which has DVI) manual says it supports the hardware protection, so I am assuming that I can use a converter to use HDMI if necessary?

Also, I can't get the GWII to use its zooming modes (I like Wide Zoom) on SD. It defaults to FULL and can't be changed. I believe the box is set up with 480i (default) for SD. Any way around this problem? I don't like the zoom mode that comes out of the box (which does work), I want to use the GWII mode. How can I do this? Would going through the HDMI port make this work?

Originally posted by LukieDog
I am using the 8300HD with component on my Grand Wega II. The 8300HD has HDMI capability and the GWII (which has DVI) manual says it supports the hardware protection, so I am assuming that I can use a converter to use HDMI if necessary?

Yes, just get an HDMI/DVI connector. You can get them on ebay for about 20 bucks.

Also, I can't get the GWII to use its zooming modes (I like Wide Zoom) on SD. It defaults to FULL and can't be changed. I believe the box is set up with 480i (default) for SD. Any way around this problem? I don't like the zoom mode that comes out of the box (which does work), I want to use the GWII mode. How can I do this? Would going through the HDMI port make this work?

You probably have your machine set to 1080i only. You'll need to go to the set up. With you set on and your cable box off take your remote in hand and walk up to the 8300. Press guide and info key on the unit at the same time. You will see a wizard come on screen. Choose advanced and follow the wizard.

I use 1080i, 720p, and 480p. This is my personal preference, however you may want to just use 10808 and 480i or 480p.

First, I would suggest NOT using the converter as it adds mass to the cable and causes the cable to fall out of the SA8300. I'd istead recommend a HDMI-DVI cable such as this:

http://www.monoprices.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10231&style=

Regarding your widescreen issue: you should have the picture format set to "Passthrough" ("Auto-DVI" if using HDMI connection) and have 1080i, 720p and 480i enabled. That way the SA8300 will passthrough the native signal to your Sony, letting it do the scaling & zooming. To set this hit the Settings button twice and scroll to find "Picture Format" setting.

Originally posted by davehancock
First, I would suggest NOT using the converter as it adds mass to the cable and causes the cable to fall out of the SA8300. I'd istead recommend a HDMI-DVI cable such as this:

http://www.monoprices.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10231&style=




That's a good price, but it is the same thing I was recommending.

hookbill,

Monster sells an "adapter" that lists for $30 that goes on the end of a DVI cable. I purchased one of those and I know from experience that cables with that on the end tend to fall out. I just wanted to make sure that people don't buy those, unless they have some means of supporting the cable and have room (6 inches or more) behind the 8300 for it. The attached photo shows what I mean. The DVI cable with Monster adapter is on the right and the monoprice cable is on the left.

:cool:

Opps,

Here is the photo (I hope):

Yeah, I've never seen that before. Anyway anything that has the name Monster on it translates to "you paid too much" so I'd never recommend anything from them.

It makes much more sense to purchase the HDMI/DVI cable.

It makes more sense to just go ahead and get a whole new cable (10'), just a few bucks more. 28AWG, is this heavy enough?

I do have the 8300HD in pass through mode and I also used the other two or three modes that come up in that menu and it does not seem to work, perhaps because I am using component rather than HDMI?

Originally posted by LukieDog
It makes more sense to just go ahead and get a whole new cable (10'), just a few bucks more. 28AWG, is this heavy enough?

I do have the 8300HD in pass through mode and I also used the other two or three modes that come up in that menu and it does not seem to work, perhaps because I am using component rather than HDMI?

As I said earlier I wouldn't buy anything from Monster. I'd buy the longer cable.

If you checked your setup and you are set up for 1080i, 720p, and 480i or 480p then your set will be able to change your screen UNLESS you are watching something in HD. When the Wega gets an HD signal it will go to full screen mode and you cannot change it.

Edited to add: This is true even if the program itself is not in HD, like ESPNHD it may be in 480i but you still get an HD signal so the Wega will not stretch. If that is the case and you want to stretch it then use the 8300's aspect ratio key.

I think there are others besides Monster that makes those and while they tend to work, they do add bulk and I'd stay away from them for that reason alone. I think it was the original poster who mentioned a converter, but a HDMI-DVI cable costs about the same and is a far better solution even if you already have a DVI cable unless you absolutely want to use that cable (especially if you overpaid for the Monster brand name :) ).

Problem solved. I did the guide and info hold down with the box off and it walked me through adding in the various modes. Had used the settings button on the remote only and apparently was not enough. The FULL stretch mode seems to work best with this box and the GWII, I preferred the WIDE ZOOM when using the VOOM box, I thought it looked better that way, can't say why.

does anyone knwo that when you push the button next to zero (...to the right side of zero) it cycles through the resolutions that you set in the firmware???
i just found that out...i even asked the cable company and sicentific atlanta for my sa8300hd...they didint seem to knwo of its existance...
so i post it here sicne we are all on the same boat!!!

Martin

Originally posted by Prehjan
does anyone knwo that when you push the button next to zero (...to the right side of zero) it cycles through the resolutions that you set in the firmware???
i just found that out...i even asked the cable company and sicentific atlanta for my sa8300hd...they didint seem to knwo of its existance...
so i post it here sicne we are all on the same boat!!!

Martin

Are you talking about the aspect ratio key? That's what is in the position you describe on my remote. If that's what you mean then that's pretty common knowledge.

It's designed so you can stretch your screens without having to go through the settings. Nice if you need to use that feature, and I do from time to time.

I know this thread is a) for tips & tricks, and b) for Cox systems.

I want to write about a) complaints, and b) I'm on Charter. Still, I hope I'm not too off-topic, because I can only begin to express how frustrated I am with Charter's lack of clue about the 8300, the mystery of why Charter doesn't push anything later than SARA 1.85.20.3, and the distance Scientific Atlanta is keeping away from any interest in the issues I'm asking about.

I've written up some 8300 behaviors I think are stupid, here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5525165#post5525165), not to unite 8300 users in some kind of protest, but to shine some light on some valid user complaints (IMHO), and cause some action to be taken. [I won't call them bugs, because I don't know what the 8300/SARA spec says. Rather, these are observations of how the box doesn't meet my expectations.]

I've written elsewhere that I'm looking for a better HD DVR experience, whether from Charter, Dish, or Verizon. Without some improvement to the 8300, it'll be a no-brainer to drop Charter in a heartbeat.

Originally posted by StevenZ
I know this thread is a) for tips & tricks, and b) for Cox systems. Then why post about something else? :)

As long as you are just letting folks know about your other thread, that's okay, but please don't start a discussion here. This thread is already long enough and virtually every complaint has been discussed to death. We all know there are limitiations, some severe in some people's minds, but this is not the thread to rehash all that. This thread is for helping folks make the most of the options that are there, not create a laundry list of what isn't or bash the 8300. If you want to do that, keep it in the other thread or, better yet, drop Charter, go buy a Tivo-HD, and switch to DirecTV, you get what you pay for and IMHO the 8300 does a fine job for my money.

As far as the thread title, I don't care if the thread is limited to Cox and SARA. The title was changed by the AVS gods, not by me, because they thought someone might want to create a separate tips thread for Passport, Charter, TWC, etc. No one seems to have taken on that task and at least one Passport tip was added to the first post here. FWIW, there was a TWC thread at one time when the 8300 first started rolling out, but bashing killed it and pushed out TWC-Diana, who was VERY helpful and it misses. I'd hate to see the same thing happen to this thread.

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
Then why post about something else?
Originally posted by StevenZ
...because [of] how frustrated I am...
I don't want to steer this thread off of tips and tricks.
I'd like to see a tip for how to get S/A to improve SARA and a trick for getting Charter to push it to my 8300 :D

Originally posted by StevenZ
I don't want to steer this thread off of tips and tricks.
I'd like to see a tip for how to get S/A to improve SARA and a trick for getting Charter to push it to my 8300 :D

I understand your frustration with the 8300, I too get frustrated but as Dave said you have to take cost into consideration. You want to push your cable company to upgrade software, but it may be that their equipment may not be able to upgrade a this time.

SA has created a HD capable DVR that has to run on many different cable systems. And you get it for 7 to 10 bucks a month. Is it as sweet as some of the other DVR's? No, but considereing what your paying for a dual tuner HD DVR your getting your moneys worth.

There really is nothing you can do to push your cable company, trust me they do things at their own pace. When you do get an upgrade it may be simply because they have changed equiptment to match what SA has. That all takes money. And you know where that money will come? From your pocket.

Yeah I was talking about the aspect ratio button....and i kid you not...no one i talked to at both companies knew anything about this feature...or any of the information that I was asking them and calle dthen to find out!!!

I also have charter and they are something else!!!

Good luck with those parrots of yours hookbill

Martin

Originally posted by Prehjan
Yeah I was talking about the aspect ratio button....and I kid you not...no one I talked to at both companies knew anything about this feature...or any of the information that I was asking them and called them to find out!!!
It's not really all that surprising, is it? I don't know why so many people expect the cableco CSRs to know all the options of all the equipment they provide. I know that may sound incredulous to some, but seriously, do you expect the salesperson at Best Buy to know every option of every A/V receiver they sell? I sure don't. What I do expect is that after reading the manual and trying different things, if I still have a problem, I expect to be able to contact a CSR and eventually get an answer. It may not be at that exact time, as they might have to do some research, but I expect them to respond at some point. In other words, I only expect the CSR to get me an answer, not necessarily to have it on the spot. Maybe I'm simply too lenient, but many of us don't know all there is to know about the equipment we use on a daily basis, even after memorizing the manuals, so how can we expect a CSR who has probably never even seen the 8300 or any number of the different remotes that it comes with to know an answer off the top of their head? They should, however, contact a technician and get the answer forthwith. Now, if you want to discuss the fact that technicians often don't know the answers, that's another matter. :)

Originally posted by Prehjan
Yeah I was talking about the aspect ratio button....and i kid you not...no one i talked to at both companies knew anything about this feature...or any of the information that I was asking them and calle dthen to find out!!!

I also have charter and they are something else!!!

Good luck with those parrots of yours hookbill

Martin

I'm telling you, I agree with Dave in you can't expect CSR to know everything, the problem is when you do know more then they do and you try to educate them, they don't listen.

I do expect the techs to know a thing or two and that's what is scarry. When I first had my SA 8000 brought out he couldn't figure out how to hook it up. I went to SA's site and followed the book, it was easy.

Of course when I got the 8300 I didn't have a tech come out, I just hooked it up myself.

Most of the time when you pit "professionals" (it's their job) against hobbyists, the hobbyists will always have more knowledge. IMO, what it really boils down to is passion. Sometimes the professionals are passionate, and then we get lucky. Most of the time, it is just a job for them.

That is very true, Prof. I think, too, that they don't get any, or at the least very litttle, training on this stuff, especially all the in's and out's of the various buttons on remotes, etc. Don't get me wrong, I think they should know the answers, or at least be more responsive and find the answers, but the realities are that most don't and it appears that most aren't expected to by their bosses. Most of us should have the job, but very few of us would work for that level of pay. BTW, anyone know just what a typical cableco CSR makes? Once I retire, I might be inclined to do something like that as long as I could telecommute. Heck, a lot of us do it now, we just don't get paid for it. :)

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
That is very true, Prof. I think, too, that they don't get any, or at the least very litttle, training on this stuff, especially all the in's and out's of the various buttons on remotes, etc. Don't get me wrong, I think they should know the answers, or at least be more responsive and find the answers, but the realities are that most don't and it appears that most aren't expected to by their bosses. Most of us should have the job, but very few of us would work for that level of pay. BTW, anyone know just what a typical cableco CSR makes? Once I retire, I might be inclined to do something like that as long as I could telecommute. Heck, a lot of us do it now, we just don't get paid for it. :)
I agree on all counts. I especially agree that they should know the answers; and while there may be reasons why they don't, there simply aren't any excuses. Why not require them to read these forums for an hour or so each week?

Prof, I don't know if you were around when there was a large TWC thread dealing with the 8000 and then the 8300, though not the thread that is active now. Anyway, there was a TWC rep from South Carolina (TWC-Diana) who participated in that thread for a long time and tried her best to provide information and get answers, even for folks not using TWC.

Unfortunately, many folks started bashing the equipment, just like some do here, and she eventually decided the thread was simply not worth her time and trouble. IMO, it really did get ugly, she was left bearing the brunt of folks complaints and unreasonable expectations for her to be able to do something about them, and she put up with it a lot longer than I would have.

Like in this thread, I get really tired of hearing about all the limitations of the 8300, what it isn't and what it should be over and over again as new folks switch to cable and then expect to get a $1,000 HD Tivo at cable rates. The fact is that the 8300 is what it is and that is not about to change overnight. Folks can complain all they want about this feature or that not being there, and there is nothing wrong with identifiying shortcomings and desired features, but there is something wrong with folks who actually get angry and let things get personal.

There are many of us who believe we are getting our money's worth, inspite of the short-comings and lack of some features, and understand the financial and legal reasons for why things are the way they are. We are doing what we can to provide information so that more folks can get more enjoyment out of being able to record and time-shift HD. There are also some, like vegggas, who do have some influence and can help get the feature-set enhanced, but it all takes time and there are plenty of hurdles to overcome, particularly money and equipment.

I would certainly like to be able to join a show in progress, start from the beginning, and not get kicked to live, but that is not how it works at the moment and no amount of 8300 bashing, in this thread at least, is going to change that. One can continue to bitch about it, but all that does is raise their blood-pressure, and for what? Because it's too hard to take a minute or 2 to REW or FF? Or just not watch a recording until it's finished? The world is certainly not going to stop rotating because of any of this.

Sometimes, participating in this thread is extremely difficult because of the few folks who ruin it for everyone. As much as I want to help others enjoy the 8300, sometimes I see a post and just shake my head wondering why any of us bother, you know what I mean? I can't imagine being a Cox CSR trying to explain any of this to folks who already know all the answers, but can't accept them and just want to argue and complain. With a few exceptions, everyone who is dissatisfied with the 8300 can switch to DirecTV and go buy the HD Tivo. Heck, technically, there are no exceptions because people can move. But, then they would have nothing to complain about, except maybe for a dent in their budgets. No, it's cheaper to stay with cable and come into these threads and go off-topic to rant. And, of course, I get sucked into a discussion I tried to avoid, sigh...... :)

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
There are many of us who believe we are getting our money's worth
In fact, anyone who has an 8300 believes that or they would not have one any longer. And, yes, I was a prt of that thread with Diana. What a terrific person.

However, everyone can improve and I do think that SA and TWC (my provider) could ratchet up a notch on customer service and product features, as they apparently are trying to do. I agree that bashing for bashing's sake doesn't help. However, every single legitimate concern or complaint expressed by a customer is an opportunity. There may legal, financial, and ethical constraints in seizing these opportunities but, opportunities they are.

Personally, I am quite happy with the 8300 and it mainly does what I want it to do and so I'll keep it around. Could it be improved? You betcha. And, if SA isn't working on it, I'm sure others are.

Best,
David

Originally posted by MarketingProf
I agree that bashing for bashing's sake doesn't help. However, every single legitimate concern or complaint expressed by a customer is an opportunity. David

Well, allow me to continue this off topic discussion.:)

While bashing the 8300 on these boards really doesn't help improve the 8300, I will say that for some of the more frustrated users it is in a sense theraputic.

I think I have a solution. A separate thread, entitled "Bash the SA 8300 Here."

I just came up with this idea after working out. See how great excercise is for the mind?:D

yep..there should be a thread added for bashing the sa8300hd..i mena dont get me wrong for 10 bucks a month for your vabel company what do you expect...at least it is better than what they offered before...

also, if there was such a thread, it wouldmake more of a band for scientifc atlanta to take what we say seriously....
so once they hear there is a forum that has a thread specially on how they messed things up and how they can fix it.....that woudl make those corporate meetings a little more interesting!!!

i had to see the guys face that is responsible for r and d at SA...i mean he is going to have a cow..the second he hears that from his boss!!!

Martin

There is a thread and that's what started this recent discussion. You are free to bash all you want there and I hope everyone does, not that itwill change anything. IMO, S-A responds only to cableco's, not end-users. If these boxes had gone retail (and that attempt failed), things might be different, but for now, we are stuck behind the cableco walls of secrecy. They don't respond until the number of subs gets high enough and HDTV still isn't there, much less DVRs.

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
There is a thread and that's what started this recent discussion. You are free to bash all you want there and I hope everyone does, not that itwill change anything. IMO, S-A responds only to cableco's, not end-users. If these boxes had gone retail (and that attempt failed), things might be different, but for now, we are stuck behind the cableco walls of secrecy. They don't respond until the number of subs gets high enough and HDTV still isn't there, much less DVRs.
Dave,

If you are right then it is a sad commentary on SA and SA has it all wrong. One of the first lessons we teach in marketing theory and strategy is that, in the end, you must create customer satisfaction at the ultimate end of the supply chain, the end consumer. Certainly, SA must satisfy the cable company's specifications, but by only doing that they are implicitly assuming that the cable companies know what consumers want. A dangerous, and likely unfounded assumption.

From my perspective, SA should be out there, in our homes, asking how we use these boxes, finding out our joys and our frustrations, learning how they can do it better, regardless of what the cable companies want. They should live with some intense users (you know who you are) and some folks who are just getting the box installed. They should follow a typical family from calling the cable co. to ask for the unit, all the way through a couple of weeks worth of use.

Other companies do this type of research all the time. Until you know how your consumers truly live with your product, day in and day out, you are severly compromised in any product development and continuous improvement efforts -- IMHO.

David

Prof, I can certainly agree with that, but (and you knew it was coming :) ), as I've alluded to before, SA can make all the changes they want to the software (and I believe they do similar research, though I'm not sure what they do with the results other than maybe to try to sell cablco's on the options), but if the cableco's don't enable the options or upgrade the IPG database, it's all for naught.

Take the First Run recording option as an example. It's been in the software since 1.85.14.1 (or whatever the version number was), yet people continued to complain about it and flame S-A when all the time it was the lack of the First Run Flag in the IPG causing the problem. I contend there was little S-A could do about that situation.

The 30-second skip is another example of something S-A wanted to do, but was kept from adding for legal reasons. People don't like it, I don't like it, but is S-A supposed to place themselves in legal hot-water over something that is not the be all or end all to skipping commercials. And, we have not seen the last of this or other legal issues and recent Tivo filings attest to that IMO.

I guess I take the position that S-A is not a stupid company. Unfortunately we are not privy to all they want to do, all they are kept from doing, and all they can't afford to do. As long as the product I get from the cableco does what is advertised reasonably well, I give them the benefit of the doubt and don't flame them until I have all the facts. It's easy to say, "just license the feature-set from Tivo", but until someone can show me that Tivo has offered such a license at an affordable price, I'm just not buying that it's that simple.

yep...it is not sa fault...they do their r and d...its the cable companies and local people that lack the meaure of a intellect/permission and all that hupla with the "legal" department , also who know who else need to be involved to get anything done..buracary..isnt it a wonderful thing??

so lets start bugging thecable companies!

anyhow

Martin

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
The 30-second skip is another example of something S-A wanted to do, but was kept from adding for legal reasons. People don't like it, I don't like it, but is S-A supposed to place themselves in legal hot-water over something that is not the be all or end all to skipping commercials. And, we have not seen the last of this or other legal issues and recent Tivo filings attest to that IMO.


It's funny to hear people complain about the 30 second skip and tick. TiVo has this feature but it's not like you see it in the manual. It's actually a hidden feature. You need to get a code to input into the unit to make it work. And the reality of it is it's not that much better then the ff, you still end up backing up at the end. That's just people complaining to complain, matter of fact I know lots of people who don't use the 30 second skip, they think its useless.

Amen.

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
Prof, I can certainly agree with that, but (and you knew it was coming :) ), as I've alluded to before, SA can make all the changes they want to the software (and I believe they do similar research, though I'm not sure what they do with the results other than maybe to try to sell cablco's on the options), but if the cableco's don't enable the options or upgrade the IPG database, it's all for naught.

Take the First Run recording option as an example. It's been in the software since 1.85.14.1 (or whatever the version number was), yet people continued to complain about it and flame S-A when all the time it was the lack of the First Run Flag in the IPG causing the problem. I contend there was little S-A could do about that situation.

The 30-second skip is another example of something S-A wanted to do, but was kept from adding for legal reasons. People don't like it, I don't like it, but is S-A supposed to place themselves in legal hot-water over something that is not the be all or end all to skipping commercials. And, we have not seen the last of this or other legal issues and recent Tivo filings attest to that IMO.

I guess I take the position that S-A is not a stupid company. Unfortunately we are not privy to all they want to do, all they are kept from doing, and all they can't afford to do. As long as the product I get from the cableco does what is advertised reasonably well, I give them the benefit of the doubt and don't flame them until I have all the facts. It's easy to say, "just license the feature-set from Tivo", but until someone can show me that Tivo has offered such a license at an affordable price, I'm just not buying that it's that simple.

In the end though, if SA can't, or won't convince the cable co's to belly up to the bar, then competitors (including TiVo) will step in with CableCard hi-def DVR's. I know that there will be options, like PPV, you may lose, but there will options that consumers value that they will gain.

I guess what I am really saying is that I think the market has changed and will continue to change. At one time, letting the cable co's call the shots was fine for SA. Now consumers have more options for STB's and DVR's for use with cable, and will have even more options. Unless SA gets more competitive at the consumer level they may lose significant market share.

The Cox Cable guy showed up yesterday and told me that I would get a better analog picture if I went straight into the TV. Does the 8300 have a pass through connection for this, or do I need to install a splitter? and if so, which kind, because I already have one where the cable comes into the house for TV #2, concerned about multiple splitting affecting picture.

Originally posted by LukieDog
The Cox Cable guy showed up yesterday and told me that I would get a better analog picture if I went straight into the TV. Does the 8300 have a pass through connection for this, or do I need to install a splitter? and if so, which kind, because I already have one where the cable comes into the house for TV #2, concerned about multiple splitting affecting picture. I did this when I had the 8100, but the 8300's picture is much better, IMO. I felt the hassle of switching inputs was not worth any picture improvement that I could see. Others may have different experiences.

You would need to split the cable just before your 8300 and send one to your tv and one to the box. It will require that you flip inputs everytime you want to go from analog to digital. Check your HD pics before and after to make sure there is no degradation because of the splitter.

Originally posted by LukieDog
The Cox Cable guy showed up yesterday and told me that I would get a better analog picture if I went straight into the TV. Does the 8300 have a pass through connection for this, or do I need to install a splitter? and if so, which kind, because I already have one where the cable comes into the house for TV #2, concerned about multiple splitting affecting picture.

First, the 8300HD does have a pass through option. So you can use it to feed your TV the native signal. Enable 480i, 720p & 1080i and select "Pass-Through" in the Picture Format menu (2nd Settings screen).

But using a splitter and ALSO running the cable RF direct to your TV input is a good idea. It gives you more flexibility (you can record 2 programs on the DVR while watching a 3rd program live via the RF input).

Regarding PQ: It depends on your TV. A lot of TVs are not very good at separating adjacent channels where the SA8300 is excellent at doing this. My Sony is pretty good for this at the lower channels - but not very good at higher ones (channel 50+). I doubt if the RF input will ever be superior in PQ to receiving a Pass-Through input from the 8300HD.

Regarding: what kind & where to put the splitter. A splitter reduces signal strength - so it is best to minimize the number of splitters between the incoming cable line and SA8300HD. You can purchase splitters at Radio Shack and a lot of other places. I'd suggest purchasing a 2 way splitter and use it on the 2nd TV, then run a new line from that splitter to your main TV RF in. That way, the signal strength going to the SA8300HD is maximized.

I split my cable before the 8300 and use a Tivo for the analog SD stations. It works great for me. I use the 8300 mostly for HD. For me the convenience of using a Tivo for SD outweighs the inconvenience of switching inputs on my DLP set.

For now, I feel I am getting the best of both worlds. However, when the Tivo CableCard HD DVR hits the streets in early 2006 my SA 8300 is history unless major improvements are made in its interface and usability.

I do something similar. I have my cable split to my VCR and then to the 8300. It gives me 3x recording capability and I can still view a recorded program on the 8300.

I had a splitter on the SA 3250HD, which I got in 2003. But last year when I got the 8000HD DVR I quit sweating it and simply took everything through the box. I could tell no difference in PQ and doing it all through the box so that I never had to change inputs while watching cable was WAY more convenient than it was when I did have to change inputs.. I have done the same thing with the 8300HD, which Cox gave me a couple of weeks ago.

I'm wondering if someone can help me here or if anyone else is having a similar problem. I recently got the SA8300 and the issue I'm having is that I lose the sound after I hit "Guide" or channel surf to an "On Demand" channel such as HBO On Demand. For example, if I'm watching a SD channel (480i), I'll have sound. As soon as I hit Guide, I lose the sound on all the 480i channels I click to. If I then go to an HD (1080i) channel, the sound will come back again and stay on for all 480i channels. That is, until I click Guide again. In which the sound will go off.

I'm on CableVision and I'm using an HDMI cable to an XBR960 TV. This only happens when my picture format is set to Auto/HDMI. When in Fixed format (1080i) this problem does not occur.

By the way, I love this box. I think the SA8300 tuner has improved over the SA4200 tuner. Even SD looks pretty good.

Ok, it's been a while since we've discussed what happens when scheduled recordings conflict. It just so happens that I was able to get 3 recordings scheduled for the same timeslot tonight. I had new, first run episodes scheduled for Judging Amy, L&O:Trial By Jury, and Blind Justice. I checked the IPG and all 3 were flagged for recording.

I then checked the schedule list and noticed that none of the 3 were in the list. So, I deleted 1 (L&O) from the list. That resulted in the other 2 now showing up in the list, but I forgot to check the IPG so I don't know if any were flagged there.

However, when 9:00 MST rolled around, nothing was recording. I started 1 and then started the other.

I guess the moral of the story is that whenever you detect recording conflicts, it would be prudent to delete all the recordings and reschedule them to avoid any lost programs.

i use the sa8300hd connected to the passthrough of the centerstage cs2 to the barco crt that i just acquired..it is fantastic!!!
i mean i can switch between 480p and 1080i and i can also room 1 and 2..through the sa,...as far as all my other requirments...i wouldnt mind connecting this thing through the hdmi..i just need an hdmi to dvi cable..sinc eths cs2 has both dvi inout and output...but again i havent tried thsi yet..due to teh cable,.,,it is connected using a vga15 male and a three cable componenet from the back of the sa8300hd to the input of the passthrough as i mentioned...
works good and it also has a nice color too.!!!

anyhow

Martin

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
Ok, it's been a while since we've discussed what happens when scheduled recordings conflict. It just so happens that I was able to get 3 recordings scheduled for the same timeslot tonight. I had new, first run episodes scheduled for Judging Amy, L&O:Trial By Jury, and Blind Justice. I checked the IPG and all 3 were flagged for recording.

I then checked the schedule list and noticed that none of the 3 were in the list. So, I deleted 1 (L&O) from the list. That resulted in the other 2 now showing up in the list, but I forgot to check the IPG so I don't know if any were flagged there.

However, when 9:00 MST rolled around, nothing was recording. I started 1 and then started the other.

I guess the moral of the story is that whenever you detect recording conflicts, it would be prudent to delete all the recordings and reschedule them to avoid any lost programs.

Yes, I've learned that for sometime. Something else I've noticed too: If you want to manually change the time of something you've already asked the 8300 to record you should delete the show entirely then record at the new requested time.

I don't know if this will carry from week to week after you do it since the only show I do this with is Deadwood and I record it at different times during the week.

Just as a note, I mentioned there was a rumor of an upgrade coming to my area, Adelphia Cable Cleveland. This morning I noticed my 8300 rebooted and I have been upgraded fro SARA 1.85.17.4 to v 1.87.16.1. Vegggas, can you clue me into anything specific to look for in this upgrage?

Do you have a 4th FF and REW speed? How about a "start from begining" option if you bring up a recording in progress.

hookbill, vegggas posted this a while back. Many of us got an IPG upgrade at the same time this software version was loaded and that gave us the First Run option, so you might look for that if you haven't had it. They also fixed the FF freeze problem, I haven't had the video freeze no matter how quickly or slowly I press FF to go from FF1 to FF2 to FF3.
Originally posted by vegggas
I don't have a detailed list, or confirmation of specifics (no bug fix report) but here it goes anyway.
I believe that the 1.85 version of software was a continuation of the original 8000 software development adapted to the 8300. I think the 1.87 version of software was built around the 8300 and adapted to the 8000. The differences in versions is dramatic if you go through the diagnostic screens and see all the changes, but the end user doesn't see much difference, other than the improvements.
Getting multiple STB's on the same platform also increases memory and performance, since the ROM image sent out is smaller and more efficient. The 1.87 software is a step in that direction for SA DVR development across multi-platform MSO's.

vegggas

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
hookbill, vegggas posted this a while back. Many of us got an IPG upgrade at the same time this software version was loaded and that gave us the First Run option, so you might look for that if you haven't had it. They also fixed the FF freeze problem, I haven't had the video freeze no matter how quickly or slowly I press FF to go from FF1 to FF2 to FF3.

Yes, I remember that post. Thanks for bringing it back up. I really have to agree the end user doesn't see much. Perhaps a bit clearer picture on SD, but that's tough to say since I can't compare with an old recording. I did record Kojack on USA which imho is one of the worst SD channels on my cable network and took a look at it for a bit. I can't say as to how much better it is. Also I don't know if it makes a difference if it was recorded on the old software.

Now as far as the FF freeze thing. That got repaired on my LAST upgrade. I've had no problem with it since that time.

No first run option.:mad: I guess I'll have to wait for TW to take over Adelphia before they change their IPG.

RemyM, as we have discussed many times in this forum you probably won't see a "start from beginning" option as TiVo has a patent on that.

Originally posted by hookbill
RemyM, as we have discussed many times in this forum you probably won't see a "start from beginning" option as TiVo has a patent on that. [/B]

I'm on Cablevision and their EVP who posts on our Yahoo group said that a "start from begining" option is in the next upgrade along with the 4th FF and REW speed. You just got 1.87.16.1 while we have 1.87.14.1 so I thought that might be it but I guess not.

Originally posted by RemyM
I'm on Cablevision and their EVP who posts on our Yahoo group said that a "start from begining" option is in the next upgrade along with the 4th FF and REW speed. You just got 1.87.16.1 while we have 1.87.14.1 so I thought that might be it but I guess not.

I'm not sure I need a 4th ff and rew speed. It goes pretty quick now.

I'm pretty sure that vegggas has told us that the "start from beginning option" is non existent. However I could be wrong, since I readily admit I don't remember every discussion on this thread.:)

I certainly would like to see the start from beginning option. I haven't tested for that yet, I'll let you know soon I think I'm recording something now.

Edited to add: Nope, no start from beginning option either.

I started to try to find anything I could on the SARA software and upon browsing around found a few things that we may want to add to the initial post (just for sh*ts and giggles :))

http://www.powertv.com/developers/images/devguide.pdf

It's sort of an overview of how the cable box works (including a short part on the SARA software side of things).

This page has a few other documents (some of the code stuff for SARA and powertv)
http://www.powertv.com/developers/index.htm

I just found it interesting (I'm sure others may not :D)

hi folks...
,my player no longer records...i dont even see the rec signfor the future recordings..
someone mentione dthat you ahve to earase everything and then redo it..is that what i need to do to get thins thing to record again..in that case since i m already gonna loose whatever episodes that i recorded..maybe i should just take it in and exchange it!!!

does anyone knwo of why thins thing started doing this for and how to get it to behave as it shoudl again???

anyhwo thanks for any help in advance

Martin

I could be wrong, but I believe vegggas has mentioned in the past that version numbers having the same first 2 sets of numbers do not represent major upgrades, only limited bug fixes and minor changes to accomodate individual cableco's and not everyone will get (or need) all versions. For example, 1.85.x.x to 1.87.x.x was a major upgrade whereas 1.87.14.1 to 1.87.16.1 contains only minor stuff. Now, that doesn't mean there will be a whole bunch of new options, etc. It could just mean that the software was redesign to work more efficiently and use memory more efficiently, resulting in fewer breakups, faster operation, etc.

hookbill, one other thing I remember now about the 1.87.x.x upgrade is far fewer audio/video glitches. I never had many to begin with, but they are now all but gone and I can go days without so much as a hiccup. In fact, I don't remember the last time my video broke up. With 1.85.x.x there was some in almost every recording, even though they might have been so quick as to go unnoticed.

I do recall vegggas mentioning something about the "start from beginning" option and I think it was along those lines. However, one never knows what backdoor agreements might be taking place with Tivo now that they are in bed with at least one cableco. It could also be that S-A has found a way to provide that or a similar option without infringing on copyrights. Most copyrights are pretty narrow in scope and we all know there are many ways to get to an end result when it comes to programming software. :)

Prehjan,
Do a hard reboot (unplug cord, hold power button while plugging it back in, etc) first. The STB should display "b00t" and then shut down for a few minutes while it re-downloads the software. Wait until it's finished and check it again. If that fails, then try deleting all the scheduled programs to be recorded, and then do a hard reboot again. If that fails, make sure there are still no scheduled recordings and then manually delete old recordings until you find the corrupt file and the STB starts recording again, then do a hard reboot, and check the drive space available on the drive.
Worst case, reformat the drive (see start of thread), which will wipe out everything and start over. If the drive is toasted, the STB must be replaced.

"Start from beginning during a recording" will not be implemented until there is an agreement with Tivo patent holders. Pioneer Passport may be more likely to reach an agreement than SA, since Pioneer already has ties to Tivo. The best case SA workaround would be to view the current recording file in real time, and then use a faster rewind process. Nothing else is allowed under the patent holders exclusive use policy and SA has to use the 1 hour buffer method during a recording.

vegggas

Originally posted by vegggas
"Start from beginning during a recording" will not be implemented until there is an agreement with Tivo patent holders. Pioneer Passport may be more likely to reach an agreement than SA, since Pioneer already has ties to Tivo. The best case SA workaround would be to view the current recording file in real time, and then use a faster rewind process. Nothing else is allowed under the patent holders exclusive use policy and SA has to use the 1 hour buffer method during a recording.

vegggas

That's what I thought.

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
Ihookbill, one other thing I remember now about the 1.87.x.x upgrade is far fewer audio/video glitches. I never had many to begin with, but they are now all but gone and I can go days without so much as a hiccup. In fact, I don't remember the last time my video broke up. With 1.85.x.x there was some in almost every recording, even though they might have been so quick as to go unnoticed.



When something works right you fail to notice, but now that you mention it everything I watched tonight worked perfectly.:)

I'm being told locally that the hook up for the SATA drive is now available. I know absolutly nothing on this, so please bear with me. I do know that my disk is now 78% full and I would like to utilize this feature.

Can anyone tell me what it is I need. First I don't know what SATA stands for but I assume it's a hard drive of some sort. Any limitations on how much storage I should get? And as far as the hook up itself, is there a USB or iee cable I need.

Thanks for any help.

http://geeks.com/pix/techtips-010605.htm

Not sure a IEEE SATA drive would just drop in, what with Digital Rights Management (DRM) concerns. I'm doing OK with the 8300's capacity, so I'm not sure I'll look into it much...

You guys need to check out this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=516559&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

It's really interesting that usually the cable companies don't really know that this feature is available on virtually all SA8300HDs. The reason, perhaps, is that there are NO commercially available SATA-II drives yet. But, as you can see from this thread that it is very easy to "build your own".

mikepaul,
Note: this is not a drop-in, it's an external drive. The SA documentation (see thread for links) clearly covers installation of it. A point worth noting though (along the lines of your DRM comment) is that the data stored is encrypted and is keyed to your specific SA8300. You can't simply unplug the drive from your 8300 and take it to a friends house. Also (unfortunately), if your 8300 dies and the cable company replaces it, the contents on your external drive are gone too. When the new box is installed, it reformats the external drive (and erases its contents).

I've had the external drive for about a month now - and am a very happy camper.

I've had my 8300 for about 3 months now and its been working great, but, every now and then, out of the blue, it will start to buzz loudly. It seems to come from the left side of the unit. I will tap the top a time or two and it goes away. Right now I can live with this as it does not seem to happen very often, but my question is, is this an early warning sign of impending doom for the unit? If so, I need to get busy watching or dvd archiving whats on my hard drive before it fries.

hi folks
first and formost ...thanks vegga and some of the others for heloing me on thsi and some of the others problems that i needed fixing in teh past year or so since i have found this forum!!

...regarding mine no longer recording...yeah i did do a reboot..but didnt hold the power button or some of the other steps detailled earlier...but i ddid wait a while to plug it back on...but i also did earase all of the schedules!! but not the recordings!!
i wil ltry doing some of the steps regarding teh power button...i giuess i have to rea da little before doing that,, i also would hate to loose all of my comtat in color episodes that i had recorded earlier...anyhwo that is my problem i guess!!!

thankd forls will post what happens nest time i try to fix thsi whole mess again...i was actually considering taking it back and getting another one..but i guess the only reason didnt do it was to give me a little tiem to al leats watch all teh epidsodes i had atchived and not watched...

anyhow
will do it again tonight and post my "findings"!!


Martin

Originally posted by davehancock
You guys need to check out this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=516559&perpage=20&pagenumber=1 Yes, please move the discussion to that thread. We certainly don't need to rehash SATA drives in this thread and all the needed info with links are already in that thread. Thanks in advance. :)

No offense Dave, but if I don't know anything about SATA and I need to find info why can't I ask on this thread? It's part of the 8300 and I think it's totally appropriate to ask for info here. It's Tips and Tricks, remember?

Once I got the response from davehancock then I was fine. It really didn't need a commentary from you.

Well, excuse me! All I did was reinforce the idea of taking the SATA discussion over there and make sure everyone saw the link. I didn't say there was a d*mn thing at all wrong with your post asking about SATA.

I could say maybe I should just take my football (that is, delete my first post) and go home, but I am home, so that won't work. :(

If you don't like my "commentary", just ignore it. But then, you'll do what you want to anyway, so what the hey? I'm really sorry now that I bothered to ask about your birds a while back, but I just guess I'll add another name to my Ignore List. :(

We need to get some new 8300 stuff to talk about. This thread is winding off into foolishness.

Dave,

Didn't know there was a forum rule that if you make the first post you own the thread.

Later.

Didn't say I owned the thread, just the first post and I can edit it into nothingness if I want to, not that I really would. You guys are making way too much of a simple reinforcement that there is already a (huge) SATA thread with all the info hookbill needs. I could understand the response if I had called him on the carpet or been nasty, but I did/was neither. All I did was say, yes, take the SATA discussion to that thread, I even said "please". I see nothing wrong with that and if you don't like it, that's just tough. Eventually the mods would have merged any SATA discussion here with what is already over there. All I did was help save them the time and trouble, but you just don't want to see that. If you don't like what I have to say, then put me in your Ignore List and you won't have to read it, like I just did with you. Two names in one day is a record for me. Actually, two names in my list is a record.

Just trying to get the thread back on track.

I'm more interested in how my new box works than people's opinions.

I love how Dave works hard to help folks out and they get mad at him...

Originally posted by Soundmaster10.2
I love how Dave works hard to help folks out and they get mad at him...

Oh yeah, he's a real super hero.:rolleyes:

Just let it go Soundmaster, some folks are just unhappy being who they are. I guess you can't quote a post and add a comment without ruffling some feathers (pun intended). I guess I shouldn't have quoted vegggas' post for his benefit either regarding what's in the 1.87.x.x release or the other info I posted to answer his question about that release. But I guess those actually helped him, so he had to wait for another opportunity to get nasty, yet again, sigh.....

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
Just let it go Soundmaster, some folks are just unhappy being who they are. I guess you can't quote a post and add a comment without ruffling some feathers (pun intended). I guess I shouldn't have quoted vegggas' post for his benefit either regarding what's in the 1.87.x.x release or the other info I posted to answer his question about that release. But I guess those actually helped him, so he had to wait for another opportunity to get nasty, yet again, sigh.....

It had nothing to do with getting nasty. You act like this is your own personal thread and you can say whatever you want and if you don't like what someone else says then you make a remark. Who the hell do you think you are? Just because you started a thread doesn't mean you own it.

Further, in regard to what you posted about the 1.87.xx.x release, I didn't ask you, and I was being polite when I thanked you. I asked vegggas. What I should have told you is mind your own business, the question wasn't directed at you. I wanted to know if vegggas could specifically tell me what was in that particular release. But no, you have to answer for everyone here so you couldn't let vegggas respond on his own.

Don't try to make me look like the bad guy here. If I didn't know about how old you are I'd guess from your responses that you were about 22 years old.

Grow up already, your getting ready to retire in a few years.

So, if I happen to know that vegggas is out of town for a week or so, you'd rather not get a response than have me repost a response that you probably had already seen and forgotten about? That doesn't make any sense at all.

As for this being my thread, you know that is not the case, you just have a burr up your butt about something. As the thread starter, I do have a responsibility to keep up with the posts so I can add to the first post, that's the whole point behind threads like this. And, if when doing that, I have an answer to a question, I will certainly post it regardless of your hangup. Who died and made you King of AVS anyway?

If you want an answer from vegggas, and only from vegggas, then use PM, otherwise deal with any replies you get. Anyone who praticipates in these forums accepts a responsibility to help others by posting answers to questions. If that doesn't meet your expectations or personal rules, that's too bad, that's the way it is. You don't have to be gracious and thank me for a damn thing. I will continue to post replies, answers, and anything else I like for the benefit of others who might be more appreciative of the amount of time I spend here and the number of answers I provide.

Belcherwm - Bill, you are right, this is way off-topic and this will be my last post on the subject. After a few days, I'll even go back and delete these few posts so they don't muck up the thread. I just don't understand why my answering questions is such a problem. If I have the answer, should I not post it? :)

Originally posted by hookbill
Just because you started a thread doesn't mean you own it.


Hey! Quit stealing my lines!

Seriously, I think it's time you dropped this Hookbill. I really can't find fault with one point that Dave made in his last post.

Except it has nothing to do with the 8300!!!!:D

Let's get back on track and back to having some fun.

Dave, please keep the thread up to date. I've got a link to the first page for use with friends and new HD DVR converts.

Don't worry, Bill. As I mentioned in PM, I made a commitment to the AVS mods to keep the first post up to date or I wouldn't have posted it. I think I will take out the Passport tip though and just add a link to that thread along with a link to the SATA thread. If there are any other links that might be useful, I'll be happy to add them too.

Dave, keep up the good work and do not let one person put down all the time you have invested in this thread and many others here on AVS.

Back on topic:

Does Cox offer the 8300 in PHX? :D ;) :D

Originally posted by Soundmaster10.2
Does Cox offer the 8300 in PHX? :D ;) :D Aren't you supposed to be in school or something? :D

I did have my first unexpected reboot today. I had just started watching a recording and, boom, reboot. Not sure if I hit the wrong keys or not, but I was pressing some keys on my Harmony remote. I'll have to keep an eye on this, but I suppose it could have something to do with the switch to digital we are going through here in The Valley of The Sun. :cool:

Not until June 1, so you still have to put up with me for a few more weeks...:p

Your reboot could because of the digital upgrade. I just hope it's not something else more serious...

I have had 3 occasions in the last month or so when the video stops updating on the HD channels. The audio will continue but the picture is frozen. If you change to another HD channel it will have the first frame of whatever was happening when you switched to it, but will not change. The SD channels do not have this problem. The only resolution that I can find is to pull the power cord, after which everything is normal again. Sounds like I am going to need a new box soon.

Originally posted by pbenjamin
I have had 3 occasions in the last month or so when the video stops updating on the HD channels. The audio will continue but the picture is frozen. If you change to another HD channel it will have the first frame of whatever was happening when you switched to it, but will not change. The SD channels do not have this problem. The only resolution that I can find is to pull the power cord, after which everything is normal again. So
it sounds like I am going to need a new box soon.


I noticed this for the first time the other day. Actually, when I switched from SD to HD, all I got was a gray screen and no video at all. I then turned off the box and back on and went directly to a HD channel and all was well. When I scanned up the HD channels all was ok until I got to the DVR channel which is the next SD channel up from the last HD channel. Instead of getting the normal DVR channel info that says to press "list" to get to your recorded programs, all that was there was a screen shot of the last HD image. hitting the list button got the normal recorded programs list. I also noticed that some program guide info was missing on some channels but not on all of them.

I haven'seen this problem (yet), but I would wait until after the end of next week to get a new box unless the problem gets really bad. It could have something to do with their adding digital simulcasts of the analog channels, though I doubt it. It's just that strange things tend to happen everytime they are doing something major.

I had my very first unexpected reboot the other day, but everything has been okay since. One thing you can try now though is to do a HARD reboot. Pull the power cord, then press and hold the Power button while plugging the power cord back in. This will do a complete download of the software and should clean out anything that might have gotten hosed somehow.

A couple of days ago, my 8300 stopped sending out a video signal on the analog outputs (I forget the labels but its the 3 HD analog outputs). Still sends out audio, but nothing on the video signals. I've tried hard rebooting, etc but to no avail. I'm still able to watch tv because I switched over to the HDMI output, which I'd been meaning to do anyway, but still I'm curious if anyone else has had this issue. I'm 99.9% sure its not the tv because I tried the output from the 8300 into several different inputs on my TV and it didn't work on any of them, and the tv works fine for DVD, OTA, HDMI, etc.

DN

I don't suppose you tried swapping Component cables with the DVD player or something just to rule out a bad cable? I seem to recall reading about this or a similar problem once or twice, but it turned out to be a cable that went bad for some reason.

DN7335,
I recall that activating HDMI shuts down the component outputs. The HDMI connection says to the box that it's OK to output full resolution information because the display knows the digital copy rules. The component out is shut off because you might hookup one of those dasterdly analog recorders and steal that gorgeous picture and sell it to all the world.

TerryB

Originally posted by TerryB
I recall that activating HDMI shuts down the component outputs.
I have both connected to my Samsung DLP, and I get video when I select either one.

I believe connecting HDMI/DVI cables disabled the Component out on the 8000 and I think that was one change with the 8300, all outputs active all the time. There have been several posts in the HDMI/DVI thread indicating folks are/were able to do side by side comparisons of PQ simply by switching TV inputs with both cables connected. Plus, I believe DN7335 only connected the HDMI after the Component out failed, but we'll have to let him respond to make sure.

I don't know how often your Picture Format setting gets resert, but I noticed today that mine was reset once again. Usually when this happens, I have to go through General Settings and reselect Pass-Through. However, pressing the Pause button appears to restore the setting. I added this note to the Tips posts.

Yesterday evening my 8300HD suddenly lost its ability to display the list of recorded programs. Pressing the "DVR List" button would not bring up the list of recorded programs.

Between my own self help actions and working with a Cox tech rep, we rebooted the box four times. The first three times, when the box finished the boot process it lacked the entire digital tier: no digital channels, no Program Guide, and, of course, No DVR List. Finally on the fourth attempt, the reboot succeeded and all has been well for the last 14 hours or so.

Has anybody else had this problem and can anybody suggest what was going on with my 8300HD?

no...
but not surpised at the inability of some of the employees/hardware/software implementations of these cable/satelite companies...
so nothing is immpossible to belive as far as i m concerned...

good luck and hope it never happens again...cross your fingers!!!hehe


martin

IMO, the biggest difficulty when troubleshooting things like this is there is no way to know what may be going on at the cableco. For example, they are adding digital simulcast channels in the Phoenix area. As they do this in different areas around town, several folks have experienced problems they've never had before, mostly reboots. It could be a total coincidence, but I don't think it is and I usually recommend that they hang in there until the "testing" is over, unless it just gets so bad that it's impossible to watch TV.

As for having to reboot multiple times, vegggas has mentioned a number of times that if the RDC number on the first diagnostic page is really high (or low, I don't remember which), that can be an indication that the unit is having trouble communicating with the headend. If this is the case, I would think it's entirely possible that reboots aren't completing fully sometimes and it may take more than one try.

gwsat, I've seen that.

Hi there. I'm pretty new to this format. I hope this is in the right spot. I'm using Everest. They have the SA 8300HD DVR, which I have as well, actually I'm on my second one and about to get a third. Has anyone out there noticed that it seems to suck?

It will often times, on FOX HD broadcasts especially, take an hour long recording and break it up into 6 or more parts. Sometimes it's all there just broken up and other times it's not all there. It also will miss recordings that are scheduled. It will sometimes not let you into the List area to see recorded shows, like gwsat was stating. It just acts like you are not pushing the button at all. Turn it off and back on again, then it works, sometimes. Recently it has started showing the channel it is on even though the box itself is off. That one is new to just yesterday.

I was reading about the firmware updates for it (although they don't sound like they fix a lot) and was wondering how you do that and if the cable company has to do it?

Has anyone contacted SA to see if they have any insight on the problems people are having with this box? My first one did the EXACT same things with the missing recordings and breaking them up into small pieces and stuff. I'm afraid that #3 is going to do the same things once I get it. Weird part is, it seemed to work fine for the first few weeks. Then just almost overnight, it starts goofing everything up.

Is it necessary to hard reboot these boxes often? Maybe that's my simple "fix". I'll try the methods of reboot and see what happens. Couldn't hurt, right?

Nice thread btw! Keep up the good work.

Firmware updates are pushed by the cableco and there is no action required on your part, though a hard reboot will download the latest.

SA generally doesn't converse with end users, they deal with the cableco and that is who you need to advise of your problems. These problems are not new though, although they are limited to a relative few. It could be a batch of bad boxes or something the cableco is not doing quite right. There have been a lot of problems with different cableco's and headend equipment that SA has had to program around. That is partly why there are a few different versions of the software out there, though 1.87.16.1 still seems to be the latest and most stable.

I have only hard rebooted my box once since I got it back in December and I don't even remember why I did it, I think I just wanted to see if I could tell what it did vs just unplugging and replugging it. Anyway, it's always worth a shot to try that before you replace a box, especially if you are on your 3rd one already. It might help to know what software version you are using (first post has instructions for getting to the diagnostics screens) though your problem has been mentioned from time to time in this thread. Trouble is oftentimes in this thread we don't know if the box was replaced and that fixed the problem, if a hard reboot fixed it, or if new software was downloaded and that fixed it. :)

I wonder if someone could verify if this is also a bug in the firmware of the 8300HD. (This box has firmware version 1.87.16.1)

I set the DVR up to manually record at a certain time (in other words not using the guide) on a certain channel, and repeated on weekdays. When this was setup in the manual recording section, it wouldn't hold the time constant.

I tested by setting up to record channel 707 (The Tonight Show in HDTV) from 11:34pm to 12:37am (spanning midnight) on weekdays - which was slightly different than the times the guide was setup to auto record (the guide's times missed the first minute of the show or so).

The SA 8300HD appeared to take the instructions correctly, but when looking at the scheduled recordings afterwards, today's show was set to record at the right time. But every subsequent weekday (each day after the first day) had had their record times reset to 11:04pm to 12:07am - or 1/2 hr earlier than configured, but still spanning midnight. So I deleted and recreated the scheduled recording multiple times - rebooting the box as well, but nothing fixed the problem. I also tried a different channel as well and had the same problem.

Interestingly when the same shows are configured to record from the guide, it schedules the record times flawlessly. Further (and I didn't know this at first - I just got the box), it turns out that the recording start and stop times in the guide can also be modified. So I modifed the "guide" time and it still worked flawlessly.

So it appears that the only issue occurs when when the recording schedule is configured from the manual recording menu.

BTW - To record manually Select DVR List, then Press "B" for Preferences, then schedule a manual recording.

Thanks.

Hi,

Is there any conclusion as to the cause of frequent dropouts when watching a recorded program off the hard drive? Almost every single thing I watch has multiple dropouts, and last night's Alias and Lost were so bad as to be unwatchable- minutes at a time of total garbled mess, no audio, etc. I guess it's possible that ABC's feed was that bad, but I've never noticed a live HD channel on my system that looked like it was having problems.

This is my 2nd box, and the first one did the same thing. I'm in Rochester, NY, we're running SARA and the 8300.

Any suggestions, or specific questions for me to ask Time Warner?

Thanks,

Wes

Originally posted by eganders
The SA 8300HD appeared to take the instructions correctly, but when looking at the scheduled recordings afterwards, today's show was set to record at the right time. But every subsequent weekday (each day after the first day) had had their record times reset to 11:04pm to 12:07am - or 1/2 hr earlier than configured, but still spanning midnight. So I deleted and recreated the scheduled recording multiple times - rebooting the box as well, but nothing fixed the problem. I also tried a different channel as well and had the same problem.

When I first had my 8000HD, before a bunch of channels were in the program guide, I saw oddball times when I first set up a manual recording, but they straightened up after a day or so and read as needed.

I never do repeated manual recordings anymore now that the program guides include all content on all channels (I set it to record 1 shot or all of something, then cancel as needed), so I have no idea if my 8300HD would do it too, but if yours does I bet mine will...

Originally posted by mikepaul
When I first had my 8000HD, before a bunch of channels were in the program guide, I saw oddball times when I first set up a manual recording, but they straightened up after a day or so and read as needed.

Interesting. I'll give it a try to verify that thats what happens with the 8300HD as well.

Thanks.

Quite a while ago I had a manual recording scheduled for Leno because the IPG had it starting at different times on Tuesdays (10:30 instead of 10:35) and a "this timeslot" recording would always skip it. I've since quit watching regularly, but the scheduled recording always worked and kept the times I set. Of course, the recording didn't go past midnight and I think that may be the real problem you are having. You might try setting up a manual recording that doesn't go past midnight just to test this theory on your cableco/box. It seems like at the time, I did try some recording that went past midnight with no problems, but I don't believe I scheduled it for multiple days, just a single recording.

Subsequent to reading the responses I tried different recording times, all on one day, different channels, etc. and the SA 8300HD behaved similarly on each occasion.

I called Cox to discuss it with them. To make a long story short, they insisted on rolling a truck to see for themselves - they wouldn't try it out at their office first.

The Cox guy just left. He was here for maybe 10 minutes, agreed that it's a firmware programming issue and took a copy of my notes for the Cox engineering department. Awfully expensive way to troubleshoot firmware issues.

Hope the info gets back to Scientific Atlanta so it can be fixed. I'd tell 'em myself but they don't appear to have a place to do that on their website.

Originally posted by eganders
Hope the info gets back to Scientific Atlanta so it can be fixed. I'd tell 'em myself but they don't appear to have a place to do that on their website. Call me silly, but if I were S-A, I wouldn't talk to the end-user either, there is simply too much stuff between the source material and the end unit. Can you imagine what a nightmare it would be for them to have to try to troubleshoot things just to decide whether or not it's a box problem to begin with? Cableco's are notorious for mucking things up, just look at how different everything is from one market to the next even for the same cableco. IMO, the big problem is that you can't ever get to the person at the cableco who can definitely get the word to S-A. You have confirmation of the problem with firmware, but there is no way you will ever know if the problem got to S-A or not, t least not until you see a new version of the firmware, and that is a real shame.

It finally happened to us on the SA 8300 (on TWC in Houston). We recorded Desperate Housewives and Grey's Anatomy last Sunday. The DVR says the recordings are there. They are the only two recordings left on the hard drive. But, neither will play. We've tried everything, including a hard boot of the drive.

We hadn't scheduled anything else to record at the same time and the drive was far from full at the time of the recording. The same programs recorded perfectly the preceding Sunday. Is there anything we can try to enable us to play these programs back? The hard drive says only 1% of the drive is full which makes me think that, for some reason, the programs didn't record.
Leslie

Are the start and end times on the recording the same? My daughter with TWC/Passport in NC is having a similar problem. The schedule looks correct, but the recording has the same start/end time and there is nothing to play. It only does it on some shows, but different channels, others record okay.

No, Dave, if I understand your question, they are not. The first show started at 8 and ended 1 hour and 2 minutes later. The second program started immediately after the first and shows up as being 58 minutes in length. Am I understanding your query correctly?
Leslie

Yes, you understand correctly. In your case, there appears to be 1:02 on 1 program and :58 on the other, but you are not able to view either of them. That is different than the problem my daughter is having. She gets a :00 recording even though the schedule shows it was scheduled correctly. It starts/stops at the same time, whereas your's appears to record and you can't view the recordings.

That's right. They are allegedly there, but we can't view them. Am I doomed to missing last week's episode of Desperate Housewives (making me one) or is there some hope that some combination of button-pushing will enable us to view them?
Leslie

Leslie, I have no idea what buttons you could possibly push to view your recordings. I also doubt the cableco will be any help at all other than to replace the box and hope the new one doesn't have this problem. The only thing I can think of to try is delete Grey's Anatomy to see if that will free up Desperate Housewives, though I seriously doubt it, or record something else just to see if that will fix whatever is wrong. I assume there is some kind of program index the 8300 uses and maybe that got hosed somehow. If this were a HDD on a PC, I'm sure you'd get all kinds of suggestions. The only guy I know who might have a beter idea is vegggas and I'm sure he's already seen your post.

Are these the only recordings giving you this problem? Were there others that you were able to view?

Yes, there were a number of others that we were able to view, including the previous week's Desperate Housewives and Grey's Anatomy. We were able to play both previous and subsequent recordings which is what makes it so very strange! I'll go record something else just to check.
Leslie

Hi Leslie,
I had this happen to one recording, one time. It was a long while ago and I believe it was on my current box. I think it is just a glitch in a verry important piece of info. in the recording process. Nobody I talked to could cure the faulty recordings or explain what precisely had gone wrong. The good news is I don't think a service call is required. I'll check with my contact just to verify.

TerryB

mine has been behaving good so far...athis month!

Martin

Originally posted by TerryB
I had this happen to one recording, one time. It was a long while ago and I believe it was on my current box. I think it is just a glitch in a verry important piece of info in the recording process. Nobody I talked to could cure the faulty recordings or explain what precisely had gone wrong. The good news is I don't think a service call is required. Terry, I believe you are absolutely right, something got mangled and there are no software tools available to cableco's to recover the 2 "lost" recordings. Unless this becomes a frequent problem, there is no reason for a service call or box replacement, though I suspect there would be no problem getting the cableco to replace the box. If a service call is intended to try to recover the recordings or explain exactly what went wrong, that's just a waste of time IMO. Leslie will just have to bite the bullet, delete the recordings, and hope to catch the episodes in reruns this summer.

I noticed a strange (but very good) thing yesterday :)

I was watching hdnet yesterday, and Smallville was setup to record (from 10-11 and 11-12). The 8300HD began recording it at 10 (I had paused HDnet so I was still catching up to the "live" programming). I then went into List and selected the Smallville episode that was currently recording. It then went back to my paused showing on HDnet and began playing. I began watching the show but had to pause it halfway through for about 10 minutes. Once again I began watching the show and then remembered that once it reaches the end of the recorded show, it will start me back at the beginning of the show again, so I carried on watching the show...but it didn't reset back to the beginning. It just started recording the 11-12 showing. I repeated the process with the 11 showing and once again it didn't restart from the beginning when it had finished recording the show.

I paused the 11-12 showing and it seemed that I was watching "live" TV while it was recording the same show on the same channel, but on the other tuner. My reasoning is that the progress bar showed a partial red bar from 11-11:12 (it was 12:12 when I was FFW'ding through the commercials). I thought the dual tuner may be what caused it not to skip back to the beginning of the show. I haven't tried this while it is recording 2 shows at the same time, but I'll have to give that a try next, I guess.

Anyone else know if this was just a fluke or if they've fixed something that stops it skipping back once it has finished recording a show (and you are watching it).

I don't think it's anything they've fixed (unless you have software later than 1.87.16.1). I think it was simply a combination of you watching a recording on HDNet that was still in progress and then switching to another recording, also on HDNet, that was still in the buffer. Here is a segment from the SA8300HD Tips & Tricks that attempts to explain this phenomenon:
Here is an explanation of just what happens and another way to avoid being kicked out to live. The main tuner is using the buffer AND being recorded. As long as you are viewing the buffer, you have 1 hour of timeshifting, independent of the recording. I frequently will have the main channel set to something I want to record that lasts 1 hour. Once it starts, I hit pause. At that point, I will hit LIST and switch over to the DVR channel, but the buffer will still be in progress. I can choose a half hour program, which usually lasts about 20 min, or an hour program that lasts about 40 min. At the end of my pre-recorded show, I will punch in the channel number where I paused, and begin viewing where I left off at the paused point. At the end of the program, it doesn't kick me out because it's in the buffer, UNLESS it needs to change the channel for dual recording. A single recording will happen in the background.

Can't seem to find this answer, but I have the 8300HD box through Comcast. My firmware is SARA v1.87.11.6 a. The problem I have is that I'm setup for pass-through (also does this in upconvert) and have 720P, 1080i, and 480P standard set and what happens is the box gets messed up on HD output and only puts out 480P. I usually get this when flipping through HD channels or almost all the time when pausing live TV. The only way to fix it is to switch to a channel that has a different resolution and that usually fixes it, but not all the time. Anyone know of a fix?

Sorry if this has been asked before, but couldn't find it in the search methods.

Originally posted by DN7335
A couple of days ago, my 8300 stopped sending out a video signal on the analog outputs (I forget the labels but its the 3 HD analog outputs). Still sends out audio, but nothing on the video signals. I've tried hard rebooting, etc but to no avail. I'm still able to watch tv because I switched over to the HDMI output, which I'd been meaning to do anyway, but still I'm curious if anyone else has had this issue. I'm 99.9% sure its not the tv because I tried the output from the 8300 into several different inputs on my TV and it didn't work on any of them, and the tv works fine for DVD, OTA, HDMI, etc.

DN Was this problem ever resolved? We have someone here in Phoenix with what appears to be the same problem. His started with the video freezing on the HDMI out, so he was going to switch over to Component, but they don't seem to be putting out a signal.

Originally posted by lancer1991
Can't seem to find this answer, but I have the 8300HD box through Comcast. My firmware is SARA v1.87.11.6 a. The problem I have is that I'm setup for pass-through (also does this in upconvert) and have 720P, 1080i, and 480P standard set and what happens is the box gets messed up on HD output and only puts out 480P. I usually get this when flipping through HD channels or almost all the time when pausing live TV. The only way to fix it is to switch to a channel that has a different resolution and that usually fixes it, but not all the time. Anyone know of a fix?

Sorry if this has been asked before, but couldn't find it in the search methods.

We used to have this problem on Cablevision but that was resolved with version 1.87.14.1. You need to get Comcast to push the newer SARA version.

We used to have this problem on Cablevision but that was resolved with version 1.87.14.1. You need to get Comcast to push the newer SARA version.

We also had this problem in San Diego on Cox when they sent a new version. The box unable to lock to HD resolutions. It was also fixed by a subsequent software upgrade to 1.87.16.1 with in a few days of the first push, definitely call Comcast and get them to push a newer version.

Thanks RemyM and DEIFan for your responses. I have sent an e-mail to a CSR that initially informed me of the 8300 roll-out after having the 8000 box. Hopefully he can push this issue on the right people.

BTW RemyM, moved down to SC from Norwalk. Good to see responses from the old stomping grounds.

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
Was this problem ever resolved? We have someone here in Phoenix with what appears to be the same problem. His started with the video freezing on the HDMI out, so he was going to switch over to Component, but they don't seem to be putting out a signal.

Not to my knowledge, but since I switched to HDMI I can't really say because I haven't checked the analog outputs.

DN

I am in Clearwater or Brighthouse cable, using SARA 1.85.14.1, and although I seem to have set the recordings to save the last 2 episodes and/or to save the item for 14 days.........I have many episodes dating back to the beginning of april on my dvr.

Is it not supposed to erase an item after 3 episodes are recorded, or perhaps the two week period is up?

I'm not sure if it automatically does that or if it only uses those settings when the HDD begns to get full, then deletes recordings based upon the settings. I keep my recordings until I delete them, so I really have no idea. Maybe vegggas has tested this "feature" and can explain how it works.

Perhaps you are right........perhaps it just deletes items when the HD runs out of space, and uses your rules to help decide what to delete.

If you chose last 2 episodes, it will auto erase 3rd one. However, if you change one of the save time to like 14 days, that one is no longer considered as part of the 2 episodes. You can't select both 2 episodes and 14 days in the recording setup.

Maybe you should turn on the auto erase option as well?

Perhaps you are right........perhaps it just deletes items when the HD runs out of space, and uses your rules to help decide what to delete.

The auto erase feature is only used when it needs space for a new recording. I got that from page 40 of the SA DVR manual.

Duh, should have RTFM, huh? :) Thanks for pointing that out Remy.

Duh, should have RTFM, huh? :) Thanks for pointing that out Remy.

FYI, the SA Explorer Club site has a new version of the manual available. It has a May 2005 date. The last version I saw there was January 2005. I haven't compared the two yet to see what has changed, but in a quick review I didn't notice any of the major changes that I was hoping to see. Our Cablevision EVP said an update of the firmware was going to be pushed to us in late June. He had previously mentioned it had a start from beginning option and a 4th FF and REW speed, but they weren't mentioned in this new manual. :(

That's good info and I hope the rumors come to fruition. Maybe I need to add a Rumors section to the first post. :)

Does anyone have a link that would have the remote control codes and how to program it? The installer didn't leave me the book.

Does anyone have a link that would have the remote control codes and how to program it? The installer didn't leave me the book.

If it is a SA remote go here:
http://www.scientificatlanta.com/explorerclub
You need to register to use it.

If it is a SA remote go here:
http://www.scientificatlanta.com/explorerclub
You need to register to use it.


Hmmmm...My remote isn't on there. I tried programming it using one that looks similar but it isn't working.

My remote says Adelphia on the bottom and the pause button is yellow.

You might try looking inside, maybe under the batteries, for a "real" make/model number. Oftentimes, cableco's contract with 3rd parties for remotes. If you can find the make, you might be able to find an online manual, though it won't be on the SA website.

Did you by any chance check the Adelphia website for an online manual or contact them to see if you could pick up a manual?

Yeah, they said they're gonna mail me a manual.

Ah, the old "it's in the mail" trick. :)

The 1.87.xx.xx (specifically the 1.87.16.1) software is used for all the 8000, and 8300 SD and HD units. This frees up much more memory on the STB and improves image quality. SATA is enabled before this upgrade in the 1.85.XX realm, depending on the MSO options list.
These versions have been around since around January or February, but may need tweaking in each system to be compatible with the older equipment and other running aps.
vegggas

I've searched the tread, but didn't find what I was looking for. I'm new to the 8300 (4 days now), and have learned a ton from this board. THANKS!

My question is about the firmware and diagnostics. Last night, my diag reported:
PTV OS: OS Home Server Edition 1.4
Flash: 1.85.14.1

Drive: Maxtor 4R160L0
Size: 320041984

Is there anything I should know about my OS and Flash? Should I bug Cox (Santa Barbara, CA) about the newest firmware?

Also, I'm reading that my harddrive is 160GB. Is this correct? How many hours of recording does this equate to?

I'm very interested about learing what all the obscure info reported on all 30 pages mean. Is there a source of info for reading and understanding the diagnostics?

Thanks!

Ah, the old "it's in the mail" trick. :)

The oldest trick in the book...

P.S. What ever happened to Hookbill?

I've searched the tread, but didn't find what I was looking for. I'm new to the 8300 (4 days now), and have learned a ton from this board. THANKS!

My question is about the firmware and diagnostics. Last night, my diag reported:
PTV OS: OS Home Server Edition 1.4
Flash: 1.85.14.1

Drive: Maxtor 4R160L0
Size: 320041984

Is there anything I should know about my OS and Flash? Should I bug Cox (Santa Barbara, CA) about the newest firmware?Yes and no. There is nothing major IMO in the latest firmware. It did "fix" the freeze during FF and REW that some folks experienced depending on how adept you are at pressing the buttons at the right speed. It also now displays HD in the IPG if your IPG offers that indicator. A lot of folks thought it also implemented a First Run recording option, but that option is already in your version and is only available if the IPG has the indicator. That is what you should bug your cableco about, getting an upgraded IPG to enable the First Run option (although that is kind of moot now that the season is over and we are entering the rerun period).

Also, I'm reading that my harddrive is 160GB. Is this correct? How many hours of recording does this equate to? That is correct and you will get about 20 hours of HD recording depending how much of the HD bandwidth each channel you record uses. I seen variances from as little as 5G/hr to over 10G/hr.

I'm very interested about learing what all the obscure info reported on all 30 pages mean. Is there a source of info for reading and understanding the diagnostics?I'm sure there is somewhere, but I doubt it's readily available to end-users. Some of it is self-explanatory and I'm sure someone here will offer an opinion on any you post a question about. :)

P.S. What ever happened to Hookbill?Don't start, he took his footbll and went home. Actually, he still posts, just not in this thread anymore.

BTW. Are you actually moving over to Tempe for school next week? Since you haven't been as active as usual this weekend, you may have already moved, or at least moved some of your things.

Yeah, moving this weekend. This past weekend was the girlfriends birthday, so I had something going on every night.

Ok, I understand. ;)

I posted this in the other 8300HD thread but see this one is much more active. I have had my 8300HD for about a year now. Struggled with many issues during this time. I'm on Time Warner Cable and my current SARA level is 1.85.17.3. I started having a new issue on Sunday and wondered if anyone had insight to this one.

The issue is that the box crashes when I try to watch a recorded show while another different show is still recording and actually tonight just crashed while the box was off and it was recording. The box then auto reboots (takes 3-5 minutes) and returns to pick up recording after it comes back from reboot. But of course loses all the show during the time it took to reboot and only records for another minute or so and then reboots again. Repeats like this till the show is done recording and I can finally turn the 8300 back on again. During this broken state I can't turn it on, watch TV, or do anything. In the last few days the box has crashed and rebooted 15+ times (glad SA is measured monthly on amount of crashes and credits cable companies if it reaches a certain high level). I'm able to watch the many recorded shows I have in my list fine or live shows. I did do a forced reboot a few times and it didn't help. Sunday night after midnight for over an hour I heard the hard drive crunching like it was doing a defrag or something that took forever and was very loud.

I've been in contact with the manager of our local TWC office DVR department. They claim they are not taking calls for this issue I mention yet from anyone else. They said they will forward the logs from my box to SA and get their input and get me an update as soon as possible.

Do you think this is software related or has something just gone bad in my box all of a sudden? I hate to switch as I still have many shows on it yet to watch and this is a busy week of season finales. Any ideas or input would be helpful while I wait for a response from TWC.

I live in Rochester, NY and have TW and confirmed SARA.

When I try recording HDHBO and HDSHO at the same time and I go to HDHBO and hit rewind to start playing from the begining, my box reboots. It is the only channel that seems to make it reboot. The TW person said I was "confusing" the unit by trying to rewind a program that is being recorded. She said that the unit was not made to do that. I basically told her she was full of it and that a DVR is supposed to be able to rewind a program that is recording. My old TiVO was able to do that and so does this.

Has anyone had an issue with this where if you hit rewind on a HD channel it reboots?

tron, I routinely rewind one program while recording 2 and have never had a reboot, so you were right to tell her she was full of it. I don't know what might be wrong and why it's limited to those channels unless one or both are sending maximum data and blowing the buffer or something. My guess would be you just haven't hit the right combination with other channels. I would get a replacement box. Can you alway smake it reboot or just sometimes?

cdp, I suspect you need to try a new box. Maybe you can sweet talk them into letting you keep the bad one until you've watched all your recorded programs. The only other thing I can think of it that the 1.85.17.3 version has a problem and they need to upgrade to the 1.87.14.1 version.

Yes, I can make it reboot everytime. It wasn't until the tech left today that I discovered this :-( Now I need to wait for another tech to come on Sat. I have a new box. I think I am using 1.85.20.0, the firmware was from 3/8/2005.

It's definitely something with HDHBO and HDSHO.

Keep us posted, that is just too weird.

I've had an SA 8300 with Cablevision for about a week now. After using a TiVo for the last couple years, I quickly realized that this box will take some getting used to. This thread has been a very helpful resource - thank you!

A number of times now I have recorded two channels at the same time, while watching one of them - and this usually means I'll have to rewind to the beginning of the one I want to watch. I haven't had any problems with this.

The box does reboot in a manner similar to that described above, if I try to watch a third already recorded program, while two other channels are being recorded. The box has already successfully trained me not to do this again!

The box does reboot in a manner similar to that described above, if I try to watch a third already recorded program, while two other channels are being recorded. The box has already successfully trained me not to do this again!I routinely do that, especially on my days off, so it's either your box, your cableco, or the version of software your cableco is using. FWIW, I'm using 1.87.16.1 SARA.

I do the same with no problems as well; record 2 and playback 1. I'm on Cox (SARA) with the same FW as Dave.

I'm sorry if this is the wrong place to post the following, but here it goes:

Has anyone connected their 8300 to their HDTV using only a HDMI cable? I tried last night and initially the HD channels worked. Then when I tried to change channels to a non-HD station, it seems as though the 8300 didn't output a signal. If i remember, the 480i was on the front of the box. When I tried to turn back to an HD channel, nothing changed and there was still no output and the 480i stayed lit. I was only able to fix by re-connecting component cables. Tried a few things and couldn't get HDMI to work. I have Samsung HLR5067, Cox in So. Cal.

Thanks!

I'm sorry if this is the wrong place to post the following, but here it goes:

Has anyone connected their 8300 to their HDTV using only a HDMI cable? I tried last night and initially the HD channels worked. Then when I tried to change channels to a non-HD station, it seems as though the 8300 didn't output a signal. If i remember, the 480i was on the front of the box. When I tried to turn back to an HD channel, nothing changed and there was still no output and the 480i stayed lit. I was only able to fix by re-connecting component cables. Tried a few things and couldn't get HDMI to work. I have Samsung HLR5067, Cox in So. Cal.

Thanks!

i had some of the same issues and weirdness happen when i tried to connect this same stb/dvr to my cs2 vid processor..using hdmi cable to dvi..(though, but i figured it will work with an all out hdmi cable also!)anyhwo it gave me some weird behavior but got it working eventually!

hopw thsi helped

but if i am wrong about thsi hdmi to dvi working the same whay as hdmi to hdmi ..my mistake..but from what i understand the correct EDID has to be send between the two devices for handshaking to happen and then you can get hdcp (encypted stream ) for,m the cable company/dvr to the viewing device!

so unless a handshake happens and stays that way...you are stuch with non encypted dvi..i think!

correct me folks if i am wrong

Thank you all

Martin

i had some of the same issues and weirdness happen when i tried to connect this same stb/dvr to my cs2 vid processor..using hdmi cable to dvi..(though, but i figured it will work with an all out hdmi cable also!)anyhwo it gave me some weird behavior but got it working eventually!

hopw thsi helped

but if i am wrong about thsi hdmi to dvi working the same whay as hdmi to hdmi ..my mistake..but from what i understand the correct EDID has to be send between the two devices for handshaking to happen and then you can get hdcp (encypted stream ) for,m the cable company/dvr to the viewing device!

so unless a handshake happens and stays that way...you are stuch with non encypted dvi..i think!

correct me folks if i am wrong

Thank you all

Martin

So.... how did you fix the problem? You said you had weirdness. How can I get the handshake to be reconginzed for all channels?

I'm sorry if this is the wrong place to post the following, but here it goes:There is no right or wrong place to post, but there is a whole thread devoted to the 8300 and HDMI/DVI where you might find an answer quicker".

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5679459#post5679459

Beats me! all i know is it is working properly now...and i had to "tweak-it/message-it" for a couyple of hours...and then : voila! it works....IT"S ALIVE!!! HEHE
just kidding..have no idea! i just knwo it started working, hense i didnt wanna mes with it to find iut what did the trick! and if i didnt find out what did it i didnt think i could get it to behave as it does right now!

The way mine is set up is with a hdmi cable that turns into a dvi...that cable goes from the DVR to the cs2's input for dvi (which is able to support hdcp!) and then from there it was a regular but long DVI to DVI cable from there to the projector!

Hope this helps

just ask your questions at the sa8300hd issues and troubleshouting (..or something like that thread!)

good luck

Martin out

Just wanted to update everyone. The Cablevision EVP who posts on the Yahoo forum has said that they have finished in house testing on the new SARA code and will begin beta testing tonight. He has confirmed that it solves the kick out to live bug. In previous posts he said it also contains a start from beginning option, 4th FF and RW speed (128x), activates the front aux inputs, and replaces the auto shut off with a hard drive spin down. I'll update as more information becomes available.

Yes, I can make it reboot everytime. It wasn't until the tech left today that I discovered this :-( Now I need to wait for another tech to come on Sat. I have a new box. I think I am using 1.85.20.0, the firmware was from 3/8/2005.

It's definitely something with HDHBO and HDSHO.


From my previous post. I have had TW out to my house again and to no avail. The tech said that he was stumped, gave me a new box and it does the same thing. I have narrowed the issue down further though. Whenever I try and record HDHBO and HDSHO together and hit the rewind button, it causes the unit to reboot. This is annoying when trying to timeshift a recording or try and start watching a program that is being recorded. The tech said that I was confusing the unit by sending too many commands. That was the best he could think of. I am thinking that there is a firmware bug that I am hitting. I can at least plan for this and space my recordings out appropriately.

Is there any way I can contact Scientific Atlanta directly to troubleshoot this? TW is out of ideas.

Tron,

Like I mentioned in an earlier post, I don't believe there is any way to contact SA except through the cableco. I also think it is a firmware problem, but they released 1.87.16.1 quite a while ago now and they might not even support the 1.85.20.1 you are using. They would most likely tell your cableco to get the latest version and start using it.

The only other thing I can think of to try is get the cableco to work with someone else to reproduce the problem on their box. Surely others have HBOHD/SHOHD and have tried the same stuff you have. In fact they should be able to use an 8300 in their shop and reproduce the problem. If they can't, then there is something else wrong.

Is there any place to find out what the changes are between firmware versions? I checked mine last night and its running v1.85.19.1, so I was wondering what has changed since that and v1.87.16.1.

Is there any place to find out what the changes are between firmware versions? I checked mine last night and its running v1.85.19.1, so I was wondering what has changed since that and v1.87.16.1.

I emailed my local TWC office and asked them if they pushed firmware updates to the DVRs and they responded with "No". I've brought it up with while on the phone with one of the CSR's and the word "firmware" must have confused them. They didn't know what I was talking about. I have 1.85.19.1 here in Memphis, TN. I have a 8000 and a 8300. I check monthly to see if I have received an update.

I emailed my local TWC office and asked them if they pushed firmware updates to the DVRs and they responded with "No". I've brought it up with while on the phone with one of the CSR's and the word "firmware" must have confused them. They didn't know what I was talking about. I have 1.85.19.1 here in Memphis, TN. I have a 8000 and a 8300. I check monthly to see if I have received an update.

According to TWC South Carolina that is the latest corporate (TW) approved version.

Is there any place to find out what the changes are between firmware versions? I checked mine last night and its running v1.85.19.1, so I was wondering what has changed since that and v1.87.16.1.Other than these threads, no, there is no single place to find what changes from version to version. Vegggas usually posts what he knows based on his beta testing and documentation he gets.

1.87.x.x appears to be more stable and a tad quicker. It fixed the problem of having the video freeze when using FF/REW. It also allows the HD flag to be displayed in the IPG if the IPG has it. A lot of folks got an IPG update around the same time that they got the 1.87.x.x software and suddenly they had the Record New Episodes option. This option has been in the software since 1.85.x.x and the IPG simply needed to provide the First Run flag for it to become active. You can probably do a search for "1.87" in this thread and find some more info as I'm sure I'm forgetting something. I'm not sure why TWC isn't using this version though.

i m in la so no tw!

mine works fine!
but thinking of going the sa3250hd with firewire way1 and save to disk!
i wanna be able to archive and that seems to be the way to go..
doubledar showed me a cool site that had a dual mac doing this!
anyhow

Martin

Did a search but couldn't find others with similar problem.

I am in NYC area with Cablevision on SA 8300HD SARA 1.87.14.1 over HDMI to Sony GWIV on video 8.

When cycling through video inputs to video 8 (HDMI), the timeshift buffer clears and stops buffering. Only way to get the buffer going again is to change channel on the 8300. Same thing happens when turning on the TV.

It may have to do with the handshake thing b/c th 8300 flashs the channel number when TV is powered on or switching video mode into HDMI video 8. I don't remeber if it happened with component connection.

It's a very annoying problem as I often switch from video inputs to antenna, dvd, PS2 or when I turn on the TV in the morning to view the news/weather that should have been capture in the buffer.

Yes, I know I can just record the news, but I set up weekday recording for 8:01am-8:10am, and after the first day, it now records 7:00am-7:10am. I've repeated the scheduling, and same happens after the first day.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

I've brought it up with while on the phone with one of the CSR's and the word "firmware" must have confused them. They didn't know what I was talking about.

You can try calling it software and see if that helps. Unfortunately Level 1 CSRs really have no clue about these things. When I asked an Adelphia CSR about an update, she said that they update the "software" every night. I instantly realized that she had no clue and stopped asking her questions.

Did a search but couldn't find others with similar problem.

I am in NYC area with Cablevision on SA 8300HD SARA 1.87.14.1 over HDMI to Sony GWIV on video 8.

When cycling through video inputs to video 8 (HDMI), the timeshift buffer clears and stops buffering. Only way to get the buffer going again is to change channel on the 8300. Same thing happens when turning on the TV.

It may have to do with the handshake thing b/c th 8300 flashs the channel number when TV is powered on or switching video mode into HDMI video 8. I don't remeber if it happened with component connection.

It's a very annoying problem as I often switch from video inputs to antenna, dvd, PS2 or when I turn on the TV in the morning to view the news/weather that should have been capture in the buffer.

Yes, I know I can just record the news, but I set up weekday recording for 8:01am-8:10am, and after the first day, it now records 7:00am-7:10am. I've repeated the scheduling, and same happens after the first day.

Thanks in advance for any advice.


hi folks

i dont belive that the buffering problem is a hdmi/handshaking problem! why?? because it has happened with my sa8300hd and it wasnt even connected through hdmi! it was using componenet at the time! (I still hadnt ordered my focus enhancements cs2 video rpocessor, so i was using componenet instead of hdmi!)

Anyhow, at least now you know it could happen with not only hdmi...

hope this helped...

Martin

and yeh i do belive that words such as firmware and compnenet and also maybe hdmi..confuse the cable company folks...i guess too many sylables!!

hehe

How exactly do you get to the place to select "pass-through" mode? What keys on the remote do you have to hit?

Thanks,

Frank

the one bellow 9...but you have to set it up in the setup thingie before you do that!

hope this hels

Martin

How exactly do you get to the place to select "pass-through" mode? What keys on the remote do you have to hit?Press the Settings button twice to get to the General Settings. Then scroll up to Set: Picture Format.

oh settings..i thought he was talking about cycling through the formats...but i guess he hadntset it up yet!
Martin

I just received a SA8300HD yesterday from Comcast for BETA testing. I have setup the box to output 480p, 720p, and 1080i (16x9). In the settings I have selected Auto DVI/HDMI. When I change the channel to analog (say channel 5) using the numeric keys on the remote the box displays 480p. I then change the channel via the numeric keys on the remote to an HD channel (say 202) and the box still displays 480p with grey bars at the top and bottom.

If I change between HD and HD channels via the channel up/down button on the remote, the box eventually changes to the correct format. Anyone else have this issue?

P.S. I just found out that when I change from a HD channel to OnDemand, it displays the HD resolution of the channel that I was on with black bars on each side.

Thanks,

Frank

This sounds an awful lot like the problems some folks were having with a particular version of the software and it was corrected by loading a later release. What version are you testing?

I found a great way to eliminate all the issues I've had with my 8300 since January (read here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5525165#post5525165) for more).

I got a Dish 942 dual-tuner HD DVR. Not only does it address every operational complaint I had about the 8300, but it pulls in all the Boston HD channels and subchannels OTA. Charter still doesn't offer CBS, either PBS, UPN, or WB in HD.

As soon as we watch a few recorded shows, the 8300 is gone.

__________________
Cheers,
-----------------
SA8300HD - I'm Leavin' It!

Good, I'm glad you're happy. Now how about going over to that thread to post and leave us alone? Also, how about you get your own signature and quit ripping mine off or is that too difficult for you?

Dave-

I am happy. I had posted to the other thread to share my opinions of 8300 shortcomings. This Tips & Tricks thread has great advice for folks to work around the 8300's many problems. It's too bad the thread needs nearly a thousand posts to deal with what SA, Charter, Cox, and the rest should have fixed months ago, IMHO.

I don't work for Dish or anyone in the cable industry. I just I wanted this thread's readers -- some of whom appear not to be "lovin' it" -- to know there's an alternative they may want to consider. Now that I've found one, I should have nothing further to add to your thread.

And if the rant in your PM to me made you feel better, I'm happy I could help.
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[This space left blank by request]

And if the rant in your PM to me made you feel better, I'm happy I could help.It did and so did the one I just sent you. :)

It did and so did the one I just sent you. :)

The HD8300 is miles better then anything Dish ever put out. Dish and DTV have terrible PQ and satellite tech is DEAD!

Goodbye StevenZ and good riddens!

I found a great way to eliminate all the issues I've had with my 8300 since January (read here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5525165#post5525165) for more).

I got a Dish 942 dual-tuner HD DVR. Not only does it address every operational complaint I had about the 8300, but it pulls in all the Boston HD channels and subchannels OTA. Charter still doesn't offer CBS, either PBS, UPN, or WB in HD.

As soon as we watch a few recorded shows, the 8300 is gone.

__________________
Cheers,
-----------------
SA8300HD - I'm Leavin' It!

That's great that it addresses EVERY operational complaint that he had (whatever that means to the rest of us), but I wonder how it addresses the HUGE pricetag associated with the equipment...

i only wish that was possible in the area of los angereles where i live..i m fed up with charter!
anyhow

Martin

Look, there is no doubt there are problems with the 8300 (that are being addressed) and there are problems with almost every cableco, but this is not the thread to discuss them. This thread is for helping folks get the most out of the 8300 and to provide information as the software and IPGs get updated/fixed.

I don't have a problem with announcing that Dish and the 942 may be an alternative to cable/8300, but I did object to the wording used and the theft of my signature to make a point. I personally like the 8300, it does what I ask it to do and I have no complaints. Sure, I want some options fixed/enhanced and that will come. I do not want to fork out a bunch of money or signup for a period of time. I am simply happy with the 8300 cost and performance, it's as simple as that.

I got brave tonight and decided to try a hard drive swap with my 8300HD. But I ran into a potential problem...

I had tons of stuff recorded I did not want to lose when the power supply on the box went out. I got a second box, with the intent to bring the first back real soon now. I swapped the hard drives in the two boxes, thinking I could get a new box but still have the old recordings... this may be completely wishful thinking.

The deal is done, I plug in the new box with the old drive, and I get the bOOt message (so far so good) and then it displays "fr.LA" and then begins some kind of countdown. The countdown started at "r360" (the 360 is a hex number) and counts down about 1 hex digit per second. I unplugged it, thinking that is a countdown until then unit renders itself useless because it detected the swap somehow.

Has anyone else had this experience? Anyone know what the count down ends with?

It could be formatting the drive?

I think it is normal. When the box is first activated it updates its firmware. I think this is what the tech told me when mine was installed. This may be described it the SA user manual.

Don

I got brave tonight and decided to try a hard drive swap with my 8300HD. But I ran into a potential problem...

I had tons of stuff recorded I did not want to lose when the power supply on the box went out. I got a second box, with the intent to bring the first back real soon now. I swapped the hard drives in the two boxes, thinking I could get a new box but still have the old recordings... this may be completely wishful thinking.

The deal is done, I plug in the new box with the old drive, and I get the bOOt message (so far so good) and then it displays "fr.LA" and then begins some kind of countdown. The countdown started at "r360" (the 360 is a hex number) and counts down about 1 hex digit per second. I unplugged it, thinking that is a countdown until then unit renders itself useless because it detected the swap somehow.

Has anyone else had this experience? Anyone know what the count down ends with?

did both STB;s come from the same cable company??
are you using the one you got as a replacement...becasue from what i understand they wont authenticate an outside bought box! you mentioned a countdown..are you atlking about the :_: :-: tourning in a loop??
is that is the case it is the cold boot..

also double daz..did someone took over your signature???
that sucks! \

anyhow

Martin

Martin,

SteveZ used my signature (SA8300HD - I'm Lovin' It!) as a template to make his new one (SA8300HD - I'm Leaving It) when he posted his message about Dish and the 942 DVR. I didn't appreciate that and told him so in a PM. But, that's all water under the bridge now as he seems to have taken his 942 and left this thread.

Also, the archiving Carlos does on that website I gave you is indeed HD. He now has around 1,000 titles (movies and shows) archived and almost all, if not all, are HD. DMILANI is absolutely correct that DVHS recorders are now pretty cheap, so archiving HD doesn't have to be expensive. I suspect though that you prefer a more techno way to archive using a PC.

The deal is done, I plug in the new box with the old drive, and I get the bOOt message (so far so good) and then it displays "fr.LA" and then begins some kind of countdown. The countdown started at "r360" (the 360 is a hex number) and counts down about 1 hex digit per second. I unplugged it, thinking that is a countdown until then unit renders itself useless because it detected the swap somehow.

Has anyone else had this experience? Anyone know what the count down ends with?

I saw that count down once soon after TWC launched ESPN HD. Whenever I went to that channel the box crashed and did that countdown. Rebooted and all was fine until I went to that channel again. All my recording's stayed on the box and all was fine. It turned out to be something wrong at the CableCo with that channel and they had to reboot the servers. So I would allow it to countdown and complete.

i have a 8300 hd and i want to use the hdmi output. the problem is, the there is no audio output option on my settings menu to select dolby digital. i would appreciate any advice on how to solve this problem.

I returned my SA8000HD DVR for the 8300. Everything appears to work except I can not get Digtal Dolby 5.1.

The 8300 is connected to the TV with component connections. The box digital output is connected to my reciever with a digital coax cable. Everything says Prologic even when the program is broadcasting in Digtal Dolby 5.1. It worked before on my 8000. Is their a setting to select Digtal Dolby or am I missing something.

Thanks LTK

LTK,

There is, in General Settings/Audio: Digital Out. Select Dolby Digital and see what happens. If you don't have that option, then you are in the same boat as 304290 (strange User ID BTW :) ).

304290,

AFAIK, the only solution is to convince your cableco to enable the option o let you select Dolby Digital output. I don't believe anyone has found any other workaround when using HDMI other than resorting to a Component connection.

Of course, this assumes you both are using SARA software.

Hi

Please forgive me if this has been answered earlier in this thread. Is it normal for the 8300 HDDVR to emit a high pitch whistle? If yes, I assume it is the drive? Thanks for any replies.

Martin,

SteveZ used my signature (SA8300HD - I'm Lovin' It!) as a template to make his new one (SA8300HD - I'm Leaving It) when he posted his message about Dish and the 942 DVR. I didn't appreciate that and told him so in a PM. But, that's all water under the bridge now as he seems to have taken his 942 and left this thread.

Also, the archiving Carlos does on that website I gave you is indeed HD. He now has around 1,000 titles (movies and shows) archived and almost all, if not all, are HD. DMILANI is absolutely correct that DVHS recorders are now pretty cheap, so archiving HD doesn't have to be expensive. I suspect though that you prefer a more techno way to archive using a PC.

That is indeed true, but would probably try both before making up my mind...or at least find someone with that jvc dvhs..i like the fact that it has the firewire and you dont have to record to be able to capture!

i also saw an unusual product from jvc..the only jvc product that i have ever owened was a jvc vcr and i kid you not..this thing worked for close to 12 years!!! just recently took the "dive" and even then i had to give it an autopsy to findally send it off in the trash...hehe

also it is really cool what that carlos mac user form arisona did..i would also conside that...

thanks for all the ideas..folks

Martin

Hi

Please forgive me if this has been answered earlier in this thread. Is it normal for the 8300 HDDVR to emit a high pitch whistle? If yes, I assume it is the drive? Thanks for any replies.
mine is completely silent,except when i put my ear on it..then i hear the hd spining

i d say somethings wrong with yours

Martin

Yea, Thats kinda what I thought. I did return the unit and the replacement is silent.

Long time lurker here.

This has probably been covered but I couldn't find anything after searching so here goes,


For some reason, I cannot seem to get rid of the gray bars on the sides of 4:3 picture coming from my 8300HD. Here is my setup:

mode: pass-thru
bars: dark
via pure HDMI connection
all outputs formats (1080i, 720p...etc) enabled

It doesn't even seem to makea difference when i change the bars between "light", "medium" etc. It always just stays on what looks like medium.
Any help would be appreciated.

defjukie,

From your set-up I would suspect that the problem is not in your SA8300, but is in your display. Your set-up is passthrough, so when tuned to a SD (4:3) channel a 480i signal is sent to your display. There is likely a set-up in your display that is putting the gray bars in on a 480i signal on that input.

Thanks for the insight Dave. You're probably right.

Any way for me to keep the box from doing any video processing (upconverting, etc) and at the same time force the black borders?

Thanks for the insight Dave. You're probably right.

Any way for me to keep the box from doing any video processing (upconverting, etc) and at the same time force the black borders?

If Dave is right, and I think he is, then no, you can't do what you're asking. Think about it, having the 8300 "forcing" black borders would be a form of video processing. You would be adding something to the picture.

You need to adjust your settings on the display/TV so that when it sees a 480i signal it puts the dark/black bars on the sides instead of gray.

Defjunkie,
It has been a ling while since I've been through the basic setup of the 8300, but I seem to recall that you can set the display type 4:3 or 16:9 early on and that may change the outputs. Then again I may be thinking of the DVD player I recently swapped in.

Good Luck,

TerryB

Thanks for all the input everyone.

Unfortunately, the gray bars are all my TV can supply (Tosh xHM84), so I'm trying to 'override' them with the black bars on the 8300HD.

I've only fiddled with it a short while though, I will do some more and will post results if I get any. I'm thinking I can possibly do one of the upconvert settings. I wonder if 480p would place the black bars? In the meantime, feel free to share if you've resolved a similar issue.

Unfortunately, the gray bars are all my TV can supply (Tosh xHM84), so I'm trying to 'override' them with the black bars on the 8300HD.1) set the 8300HD bars to black (see above)
2) set the output format on the 8300HD to Fixed and 480i (wide) or 480p (wide) ... NOT 480i (std) or 480p (std)
3) set your TV to 'FULL' mode ... whatever Toshiba calls it ... the same thing you use for anamorphic DVDs
4) fiddle with the # key to flip through the 8300HD's zoom modes. One of them should result in ... 4:3 image with black bars on either side. Ta da!

If you like what you see ... DISABLE 480i (std) and 480p (std) on the 8300 and go back to pass-through. The box should then use 480i (wide) instead of 480i (std) for SD stations ... and you'll get your black bars without having to change output formats all the time. You can also then leave your TV in 'FULL' all the time.

There is a down-side to this though. You'd actually be loosing some resolution. 480i (std) sends the 4:3 image ... and only the 4:3 image ... at 720x480i. When the box is set to 480i (wide) it has to cram the 4:3 image AND black bars into 720x480i. You are 'processing' the image ... although you aren't upconverting it.

Pick your poison ...

As noted above ... I would think that there should be a way to get the Toshiba to use black bars ... although it would probably require adjusting the service menu. That would be ideal. However ... I don't know the Toshiba service menu so ...

You could also go to Fixed: 1080i. That would force black bars from the 8300HD. But I think the 480i (wide) results in a better picture. Even with the loss in resolution ... it's still better than the up-convert (IMHO). See which looks better to you.

^ thanks a lot. Your post was very helpful. I had figured out the 1080i trick on my own yesterday but I tried what you suggested (forcing wide mode) and I think the 1080i (mostly) looks a little better.

As far as the Toshiba goes, no one has been able to figure out (yet) how to override those ugly gray bars, and it certainly isn't from lack of trying (a huge chunk of the "xHM84 owners thread" is dedicated to this topic).

Anway thanks, you all are a very helpful bunch on this site :)

I had figured out the 1080i trick on my own yesterday but I tried what you suggested (forcing wide mode) and I think the 1080i (mostly) looks a little better.That probably comes down to a difference in TV sets (your Toshiba vs. my Sony 34XBR800) and how they handle 480i signals.

You're definately doing the right thing letting your eyes be the (ultimate) judge. Congrats! Many people never quite figure that out ...

At least now you know some more 'SARA 8300HD Tips and Tricks'. :)

^ thanks a lot. Your post was very helpful. I had figured out the 1080i trick on my own yesterday but I tried what you suggested (forcing wide mode) and I think the 1080i (mostly) looks a little better.

As far as the Toshiba goes, no one has been able to figure out (yet) how to override those ugly gray bars, and it certainly isn't from lack of trying (a huge chunk of the "xHM84 owners thread" is dedicated to this topic).

Anway thanks, you all are a very helpful bunch on this site :)
I thought the grey was so that the burn-in and gun-use was spread out evenly on 4:3 material. By replacing the grey bars with black bars, aren't you defeating this? Just watch everything in HD and then you won't have that problem. :p

defjukie's set is a DLP - no burn-in issue. Frankly, the burn-in issue is overstated for direct view CRTs as well (such as dt_dc has). But on CRT RPTV and Plasmas it is a huge issue!

defjukie's set is a DLPOops ... didn't realize that.

defjukie: Try 720p output for SD channels instead of 1080i ... see which you like better. I'm not even going to try to guess which would be 'optimal'. :)

aside: why the heck don't they have a bar-color option on a DLP ... that's just silly. :rolleyes:

I thought the grey was so that the burn-in and gun-use was spread out evenly on 4:3 material. By replacing the grey bars with black bars, aren't you defeating this? Just watch everything in HD and then you won't have that problem. :pIt is, but if you've ever watched a 4:3 program in a "darkened" home theater setup, you will see how "bright" the grey is compared to black and how much that detracts from the viewing experience. It's even worse when viewing 4:3 content on a 90" or larger projection screen. Many of us zoom the image even when burn-in is not a problem, but some folks prefer the original aspect ratio and that's why they want black instead of grey IMO.

Sometimes I wonder if one would burn-in those damn BRIGHT gray bars? :rolleyes:

Sometimes I wonder if one would burn-in those damn BRIGHT gray bars? :rolleyes:Assuming this is a serious comment :) , I have it on good authority that it isn't so much the bars themselves, as it is the narrow line at the inner edges that begin to appear. Furthermore, the effect goes away over time as the phosphors wear more evenly with more zoomed 4:3 or HD content watched. This is from the personal experience of a friend of mine with his 57" Hitachi RPTV.

I've got a Mits 55805 which suffered burn in by the previous owner. With a uniform light display, the edges of the 4:3 program material and "bugs" from HD material can be seen. It was obviously in "flamethrower" mode for most of it's previous life. It would be nice if the se artifacts aged away with proper usage, but I doubt the theory myself, I think that everything will go from here at a uniform degradation of output so the lines will always be dimly seen.

TerryB

I only talked about the thin line between the bars and the actual image. Everyone's experience will be different depending on just how much uneven wear has occured and how long they keep their set. These lines took over a year to gradually disappear and the set never was on torch mode, so it does take awhile and may never get there if the damage is too great.

The main point was that even if the gray bars themselves did not show uneven wear (which is their intent), the thin line might, but it also might be overcome given time and proper usage. I was not trying to say uneven phosphor wear of all kinds was recoverable in any way, shape or form.

Assuming this is a serious comment :) , I have it on good authority that it isn't so much the bars themselves, as it is the narrow line at the inner edges that begin to appear.

My comment was really a serious one: I wonder what the appropriate gray level is to minimize "burn-in". I would assume that the objective is to find a level that would provide the same amount of phosphor aging would "average" video programming. With that in mind, it occurs to me that the typical gray levels are too bright.

So Dave, what you are saying is that it is the transition that gets burnt in and is noticeable? So, to be effective, manufacturers should move things around (as many plasma's do) or provide fuzzy edges? Then would it make any practical difference whether the 4:3 bars were black or gray?

Sorry to continue on this off-topic point, but it is a little relevant when you get down to the decision of bars generated by the TV vs bars generated in the cable box (besides we currently seem to have a good group discussing it here :D)

Hi there,

I just got an SA 8300 from Cox San Diego. Does anyone know how to activate the 1394 ports? I would like to run video through it to my monitor. I tried a search, but it didn't turn up anything on this thread.

Thanks!

I don't believe they're active on the 8300's. I think the SA3250 is the only one you can get with active 1394 ports.

Feel free to correct me anyone....