PS - Using the component connection instead of HDMI is not an option I wish to use. I appreciate the quality of my HD picture too much with the HDMI connection and also am using the component connections on my TV for other devices.Then I think you are SOL. HDMI goes through the HDCP handshake and, with the TV off, there is nothing to shake with. :)

There was a flag set by the broadcaster that said to delete content after XX amount of time. It's part of the inherent Digital Rights Management (DRM) of digital broadcast flags and can be used by any broadcaster at anytime to prevent an active archive on a live DVR. I can only HOPE that my local ABC, or worse,the national network, was not testing this flag.Actually the expiration tags have nothing to do with the digital "Broadcast Flag". Those were tags embedded in the VBI ... which it's part of the Macrovision license to respect. Macrovision would also claim that it's a patent violation to apply those tags without a license ... and it's part of the Macrovision license to not apply those tags to anything other than VOD/PPV. So, applying them to an OTA broadcast would be either a patent or license violation:
http://www.macrovision.com/downloads/partners/how_to_obtain.pdf

Anyway ... it would seem very odd for the flag to be set to 4 weeks ... then 3 weeks ... then 2 weeks ... which would be what would have to have happened for those episodes to all be deleted on the same day.

Using the component connection instead of HDMI is not an option I wish to use. I appreciate the quality of my HD picture too much with the HDMI connection and also am using the component connections on my TV for other devices.
Then I think you are SOL. HDMI goes through the HDCP handshake and, with the TV off, there is nothing to shake with. :)
I wonder if there is a HDMI switch that 'holds' the handshake (like some KVM switches hold keyboard or mice functions)? If so, that may be [an expensive] option to research.

This implementation baffles me anyway - it seems to be a botched way of handshake failure notification over the other outputs, or a way off center interpretation of the intent/purpose. A banner or message, even one that could turn off with a button, would still annoy folks who try to schedule autonomous recordings off the other outputs. Should be a banner to the HDMI output and a status flag in the first [Settings] menu.

I thought that the HDCP [for protected content] would always turn off HD resolutions to component and non-HDCP HDMI/DVI displays - but should still output the lower resolutions. Since I do not have a HDMI/DVI display, not getting 1080i over component at all was my concern. As it is, I am happy [collective they] allow me to have component HD resolutions as long as I do not plug anything into the HDMI port.

If preventing digital and HD analog copies is the intent, then the RF, composite, S-video outputs should still display the 480i version, and the component outputs should also display the 480i version (my fear). It does not seem to be a hardware problem with the device per se, since there is already simultaneous down-conversion to 480i to the RF, composite, and S-video outputs. Maybe the designers did not provide a path for this simultaneous 480i output to be piped to the component outputs.

I sort of hope they do not 'fix' this and force me to buy HDMI or go without...

v/r,
C-F

I totally agree, if for no other reason that I know some folks who have multiple TVs connected to their 8300. They use an analog set for general TV viewing during the day when not much network programming is HD and use an HDTV other times when there is more HD content. It sounds like if they try to use HDMI, the analog set would not have anything to display and this is plain wrong IMHO. Am I right or did I miss something?

If preventing digital and HD analog copies is the intent, then the RF, composite, S-video outputs should still display the 480i version, and the component outputs should also display the 480i version (my fear).

That would make sense CF, except for the fact that this annoying HDCP message is ocurring via the S Video connection from the 8300 to the Philips DVD/DVR. Why should the HDMI connection to the TV prevent me from using the S-Video output to the Philips?? This copy protection crap is aggravating, especially when you are not even trying to copy anything illegally. Just trying to use the equipment we paid hard earned money for the way it was designed to be used.

err... I'm sorry, I must not have been as clear as I thought.

As a workaround for your current situation I was suggesting that one or another DVI switch may have the ability to 'hold' the handshake and solve your problem.

Moving to a more general topic, the current 8300HD situation is annoying HDMI/DVI owners because it is blocking the lower resolution distribution which should always be allowed as I understand the [stated] intent behind the technology.

This implementation also may not be meeting the intent of only sending HD resolution to HDCP compliant devices for source materials marked as such, because it sends 1080i just fine to the component outputs when there is no HDMI/DVI connection. I do not know how to tell if source material is coded for HDCP down-conversion or not, so I have no way of knowing if the 8300HD is compliant with this or not. I have not heard of any 8300HD that has done this, although some up-converting DVD players evidently down-convert (or do not convert) the component output.

Now switching over to how the implementation should have been designed to comply with the above understanding of HDCP intent and ease of use [instead of how it is]:
- The purely 480i outputs should not have any indication of HDCP failure.
- The digital HDCP protected outputs should have the disabled banner.
- An indicator on the front panel and/or in the first settings menu should show the HDCP status.
- Non-protected source material/content should allow all resolutions from the component output.
- IF the source is coded, the component outputs should only display 480i/p.

My concern is with the last provision since I do not have a HDMI or DVI display, much less one with HDCP. I hope they do not 'fix' that last item, and continue to allow me to display 1080i over component.

I hope this is better phrasing.

v/r,
C-F

Here's another 8300HD anomaly. I have recordings scheduled set up for Threshold and Close To Home. Both are New Episodes for Friday at 8:00 pm Mountain time though Threshold has since been moved or they are trying Close To Home in it's timeslot.

At any rate, tonight Threshold is not on, but the 8300 says it recorded it. Of course, when I went to watch it, it was actually Close To Home even though the recordings list and the IPG both say Threshold. Obviously it recorded correctly based on my schedule, but for some reason it picked up the wrong title to put in the list.

Is there anyone out there broadcasting HDCP? I thought it was still in the future. If so, I don't understand why the 8300HD would be doing an HDCP hand shake if there's none in the stream. I realize the display has to be HDCP compliant in order for it to work. I always understood the component outputs would only be disabled if HDCP is in the stream.

Maybe I'm not understanding how it works, so someone please feel free to enlighten me. There's definitely no HDCP being broadcast in Canada. I haven't even heard of anyone testing it.

I was mostly speaking only to the incongruity of blocking output over ports that should be legal even when the source is coded as requiring HDCP. But, when you put it that way, if no source material is being marked as requiring HDCP there may not be a good reason to have the handshake at all -- absent getting it ready for prime-time via the extended consumer 'beta' testing now commonplace.

I am not an expert in these matters, I do not know what the official rules are. As much as I wonder why the 8300HD blocks all outputs when HDMI-HDCP fails, I also must wonder why some up-converting DVD players already refuse to output 720p/1080i over component if the material has to be marked for HDCP?

In any event it has probably veered off topic enough to stop here or create another thread.

v/r,
C-F

Here's another 8300HD anomaly. I have recordings scheduled set up for Threshold and Close To Home. Both are New Episodes for Friday at 8:00 pm Mountain time though Threshold has since been moved or they are trying Close To Home in it's timeslot.

At any rate, tonight Threshold is not on, but the 8300 says it recorded it. Of course, when I went to watch it, it was actually Close To Home even though the recordings list and the IPG both say Threshold. Obviously it recorded correctly based on my schedule, but for some reason it picked up the wrong title to put in the list.

I record Threshold but not Close To Home and "Threshold" was recorded on 11/11 but only 43 minutes. I was shocked as I knew it was not supposed to be on and was somewhat disappointed when I watched it and it was a different show. It is not uncommon for a show that should not record because of a rerun or it just not being on some week to appear in the scheduled to be recorded list but this is the first time I have seen it actually record. The Threshold move to Tuesdays will be the first big test for my 8300. I wish the guide went out further so I could see what it intends to do.

I actually ended up with a second recording listed as Close To Home, so it appears to me that 2 different titles got assigned to recordings from the same channel using both tuners. My guess is that something in the IPG database was hosed even though it didn't show up in the IPG display.

FWIW, I've not had a problem with other programs that have moved in the past, so I don't expect any problems with Threshold when it starts on Tuesdays.

I also must wonder why some up-converting DVD players already refuse to output 720p/1080i over component if the material has to be marked for HDCP?That is part of the DVD/CSS licensing agreement (which all DVD manufacturers must sign). Basically, if content is protected by CSS it can not be output at 720p/1080i over component ... or else it's a licensing violation (if you signed the license agreement) or a patent violation (if you didn't sign the license agreement). The CSS licensing agreement only allows upsampling via a 'protected' digital output (like HDCP protected DVI/HDMI).

More info:
http://www.dvdcca.org/css/

Details available in Procedural Specifications (which you must request):
http://www.dvdcca.org/css/application_proc1.html

Relevant secions quoted in this post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5251603&&#post5251603

OK, thanks.

v/r,
C-F

Posted this in my local thread, and though I'd try here as well. Don't know what version of SARA we now have:

I have the SA8300HD with TWC-Greensboro and was hoping that someone with the same box can help me out. I believe we received a software update within the past few weeks that is causing some problems with the "Copy to VCR" function. I have my 8300 connected to a DVD-Recorder via s-video. When I try to record a show from the 8300's hard drive to the DVD-Recorder using the "Copy to VCR" option, the result is a DVD full of visual "jagged lines"--barely watcheable. However, if I simply record the show to the DVD-Recorder while the show is being played back on the 8300 (as opposed to "Copy to VCR"), the result on the DVD is fine--no jagged lines. I just noticed this started happening within the past few weeks. Anyone else experiencing this?

BTW, I know it's not my DVD-recorder, because I get the same results when I hook the 8300 directly to my TV with s-video.

I'll have to check that....but I think my S-video is working fine on Copy to VCR. I goto my DVDR input, select the S-video input, goto the 8300 list, select "Copy to VCR" and then hit record on the DVDR so I can see the output of the 8300 and it was fine last time I did it.

I'll have to check that....but I think my S-video is working fine on Copy to VCR. I goto my DVDR input, select the S-video input, goto the 8300 list, select "Copy to VCR" and then hit record on the DVDR so I can see the output of the 8300 and it was fine last time I did it.
Thanks. Let me know what you find. It may be that my 8300 has gone bad. I noticed this just started happening within the past couple of weeks. Prior to that, there was no differnce in video quality between "Copy to VCR" and simply playing the recorded show.

f,

Copy to VCR recording quality is an issue for the 8300 that seems to be based on the software as you have discovered. Hopefully the next version will take care of the limited resolution issue.

Anyone know when this box will become available to Dayton,OH 45458..Kettering local office?

Copy to VCR recording quality is an issue for the 8300 that seems to be based on the software as you have discovered. Hopefully the next version will take care of the limited resolution issue.Since both folks are from Greensboro, I would assume they are using the same software and, right now at least, one doesn't seem to be having any problem. Until we know for sure, that would seem to suggest a hardware problem of some sort that might be helped by a hard reboot to clear everything out and re-download the software. The 8300 seems prone to many of the old PC problems; fragmented memory, hosed cache, etc., and it never hurts to try a hard reboot (hold the power button while plugging the power cord in until Boot is displayed or the display starts cycling) to see if it helps at all.

Note: Maybe I should go back through the thread and make a list of all the things a hard reboot has helped resolve. I know it sounds a lot like a catch-all solution, but no harm, no foul, right? :)

Since both folks are from Greensboro, I would assume they are using the same software and, right now at least, one doesn't seem to be having any problem. Until we know for sure, that would seem to suggest a hardware problem of some sort that might be helped by a hard reboot to clear everything out and re-download the software. The 8300 seems prone to many of the old PC problems; fragmented memory, hosed cache, etc., and it never hurts to try a hard reboot (hold the power button while plugging the power cord in until Boot is displayed or the display starts cycling) to see if it helps at all.

Note: Maybe I should go back through the thread and make a list of all the things a hard reboot has helped resolve. I know it sounds a lot like a catch-all solution, but no harm, no foul, right? :)
Thanks for the suggestion, Dave. I tried the hard reboot, but that did not fix the problem.

telemike, post back when you get the chance to check out your system. Thanks.

Thanks for the suggestion, Dave. I tried the hard reboot, but that did not fix the problem.

telemike, post back when you get the chance to check out your system. Thanks.Thanks for letting us know that didn't help. It will be interesting to see what telemike finds out, could be your 8300, or at least part of it, just went south. :(

Have not had a chance to check yet......

Incase you haven't heard the news today a quality company finally buys SA. I'm sure it will be years before we as consumers actually start to see the benefits of better products out of SA. But this is certainly a good start.

Article "Cisco buys set-top box maker for $6.9bn":
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10098761/

Just connected the 8300HD to my new KDS-R50XBR1 TV and am having the same problems as Pucky. I haven't seen any replies so I'll some it up again. Have Adelphia in Port Saint Lucie, FL.

1. I have to "re-setup" the HD box nearly every time I watch tv, or switch tv inputs, or flip around for a while, etc. If I switch back to the HD channels, I can see from the front of the 8300HD that it is sending only a 480i signal (plus the obvious grey bars on the top/bottom or all four sides of the picture). I have to turn off the box, go into HD setup mode, choose advanced mode, I don't change anything (it appears to be set up correctly already), hit exit, power on, and presto--it then is working. I have tried the regular mode (only 1080i), advanced mode choosing only 1080i or all or some resolutions. What could be the cause of this?

Since I was having problems with the HDMI I tried the components and...
2. The picture into the component input is displayed all red/pink. I've checked and doublechecked the cable connection, the cable quality, and the tv input, it all seems to work fine when my DVD player is attached instead. Even tried different cables.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Try pressing the# key.

Don

You must have missed vegggas' reply and pucky's response to that:
"Pink" Component output

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for your help Vegggas. I tried resetting the box and a number of things, could not get the component to look right, it was all pink. Then, I figured it out. When trying to set up the STB, through component output, for HD (pushing Guide and Info on the box), the screen only gave me one option, "press A for SD mode". I was muttering to myself "I don't want SD Mode" and getting very frustrated, after a while, I just hit B anyway, and sure enough it started outputting HD no problem. (I will set aside the HDMI for now, oh well, it was just too much trouble having to re-set up the box every time I switched TV inputs or even channels sometimes.) (Incidentally, now if I press Guide and Info and enter HD setup mode, it only offers "B" choice, no "A" for SDTV. Over HDMI it always offered both choices.)
My guess is that switching TV inputs in your HDMI setup causes the 8300 to lose the HDCP handshake and revert to SD. I don't know if pucky could have avoided some of the setup hassle by doing a hard reboot after switching to Component cables, but he found a way around it, so no harm, no foul. My suggestion would be to try:

1. Disconnect the 8300 power cable.
2. Disconnect the HDMI cable.
3. Connect the Component cable.
4. Press and hold the 8300 power button while plugging the power cable back in until "Boot" is displayed or the display begins to cycle.
5. Wait until the boot process is complete, then press Guide and Info on the box. Select option "B" and follow the instructions to enable desired formats (usually 480i, and 720p or 1080i).

Let us know if any of this works.

I don't understand why SA didn't leave HDCP hand shaking out of the equation for now. Why would they have implemented it already? It only seems to be causing problems for most folks. Perhaps HDCP displays demand it even though there's no HDCP?

Double Daz....followed your instructions and works great. HDMI is a big pain.
On a side note compared an Impact Accoustic SonicWave HDMI cable with a SonicWave component cable and I can't see much of a difference. Maybe edge to HDMI, but probably in my head and who cares because it doesn't work anyways.

What type of component cable are people using? I am in the Monster is a waste of money camp.

HDMI is a big pain.
On the other hand, I plugged the 8300HD HDMI into my plasma display 7 months ago and it has worked flawlessly since. It seems to be quite dependent on equipment at this point. It sure would be nice if they would get these problems worked out before springing them on an unsuspecting public to do beta testing.

I can't see much of a difference.
I couldn't see much either. In fact I would be hard pressed to tell the difference if I didn't know which was hooked up.

What type of component cable are people using?
I make my own out of RG-6 coax and Canare RCA connectors.

Glad to hear you got things working. FWIW, HDMI does not seem to be a problem with every setup and it's hard to tell if it's the SA or the various HDTV's implementation.

As for Component cables, I tried both a Monster cable and the one that came with the 8300 and never could tell the difference, though the Monster is certainly beefier and might hold up better over time.

Double Daz....followed your instructions and works great. HDMI is a big pain.
On a side note compared an Impact Accoustic SonicWave HDMI cable with a SonicWave component cable and I can't see much of a difference. Maybe edge to HDMI, but probably in my head and who cares because it doesn't work anyways.

What type of component cable are people using? I am in the Monster is a waste of money camp.

My HDMI to DVI works beautifully, and I am in the Monster is worth every penny camp --- I wouldn't use anything else (excluding speaker wire) --- sorry!

My HDMI to DVI works beautifully, and I am in the Monster is worth every penny camp --- I wouldn't use anything else (excluding speaker wire) --- sorry!
No need to be sorry. If you can afford Monster and want to use them no one is suggesting you shouldn't. Personal experience, however, says you can't see a PQ difference in most applications and I have yet to read a post that suggests otherwise. As I said, the Monster is beefier and may hold up better over time, but I tried awfully hard to see a difference in PQ under various conditions and couldn't.

As for HDMI to DVI, I believe most of the problems I've read about are with HDMI to HDMI and it still depends on the equipment being used. For many it works just fine, but for others it is simply not worth the hassle and that's all we're suggesting. If it is an SA problem, perhaps the problems will be overcome with a future software update.

The first time I used Monster cables (component at the time) I there was a VERY noticeable difference and I'll never go back. My picture is incredible, I'm ISF calibrated, and I'm a believer in their (Monster) products. It has been a bit costly going from component to DVI to HDMI/DVI though, but I have a lot of money invested in my system and I won't use cheap cables.

Because bits are bits, the improvment that you perceive by using Monster component cables does not translate into digital (HDMI/DVI) cables.

Whatever you say. You enjoy yours, I'll enjoy mine.

No need to get snotty, it's just a discussion. :eek:

At any rate, it doesn't appear that you compared your Monster Component cables to any others, so how do you know they are superior? As DaveH mentioned, bits are bits and as long as they get to their intended destination intact, that should be all that matters. I have no doubt that Monsters are technically superior to some other cables, but that doesn't necessarily translate into them being any better, just more expensive and perhaps overkill. But, like you said, the bottomline is you enjoy yours and we'll enjoy ours. ;)

You must have missed vegggas' reply and pucky's response to that:
My guess is that switching TV inputs in your HDMI setup causes the 8300 to lose the HDCP handshake and revert to SD. I don't know if pucky could have avoided some of the setup hassle by doing a hard reboot after switching to Component cables, but he found a way around it, so no harm, no foul. My suggestion would be to try:

1. Disconnect the 8300 power cable.
2. Disconnect the HDMI cable.
3. Connect the Component cable.
4. Press and hold the 8300 power button while plugging the power cable back in until "Boot" is displayed or the display begins to cycle.
5. Wait until the boot process is complete, then press Guide and Info on the box. Select option "B" and follow the instructions to enable desired formats (usually 480i, and 720p or 1080i).

Let us know if any of this works.

After doing all this and the components working great. Today, I plugged the HDMI back in to see what would happen. What do you know going on 4 hours and no switch back to 480i. Since the picture looks the same I think I'll stick with components but very interesting.........

That is interesting. I assume you switched TV inputs, etc., just like before. Could it be that all you tried before was a regular reboot and not a hard reboot?

After doing all this and the components working great. Today, I plugged the HDMI back in to see what would happen. What do you know going on 4 hours and no switch back to 480i.

Did you leave the component cables hooked up while you re-tried the HDMI cable?

Yes, I left the components connected. It didn't work alone even after a hard reboot.

Here's some DD5.1 lip sync issues I have noticed with the SA8300HD and my home theater. The program seems to track fine in DD5.1 until a commercial; the commercial gets way of sync then when the show returns in DD5.1, the lip sync is off. Switch channels back and forth and it will get back in sync. Too much PITA so I am going back to PCM digital stereo from the 8300 and using Dolby PLII. No volume level differences and lip sync stays on.

I think this may be a local issue or the version of software you currently have, I do not have similar problems unless a given station is having a problem. Almost all stations have a rep in our local forums, so we are pretty well informed about such problems and their resolutions.

Here's some DD5.1 lip sync issues I have noticed with the SA8300HD and my home theater. The program seems to track fine in DD5.1 until a commercial; the commercial gets way of sync then when the show returns in DD5.1, the lip sync is off. Switch channels back and forth and it will get back in sync. Too much PITA so I am going back to PCM digital stereo from the 8300 and using Dolby PLII. No volume level differences and lip sync stays on.

I haven't seen (or heard) that problem with my set up. BTW, did you ever get the chance to compare the video quality of "Record to VCR" per our earlier discussion?

My reciever (cheap-o) might not handle the switching from digital stereo to DD5.1 back and forth......

vegggas, have you discovered any more about possible time limits for deletion of recordings? I've recorded Roy Orbison's Black & White Night on INHD2 twice now only to have it automatically delete. Although this was some time ago and I thought I deleted them by mistake, I'm now wondering if it might have something to do with what you were discussing severl posts back. I have no time limits on my recordings and have never come close to filling up the HDD. I shpuld note that each recording disappeared during a time when I was cleaning out (deleting) 3-4 old recordings.

vegggas, have you discovered any more about possible time limits for deletion of recordings? I've recorded Roy Orbison's Black & White Night on INHD2 twice now only to have it automatically delete. Although this was some time ago and I thought I deleted them by mistake, I'm now wondering if it might have something to do with what you were discussing severl posts back. I have no time limits on my recordings and have never come close to filling up the HDD. I shpuld note that each recording disappeared during a time when I was cleaning out (deleting) 3-4 old recordings.

I recorded this show on July 6 and I still have it on my SA8300HD with an attached Maxtor 300GB Quickview Expander external drive. I have never had a show delete by itself and like the Roy Orbison show many have been on my 8300 many months.

I have had random shows delete - lost on episode of an HBO series while a second episode stayed in tact.

Been gone a while...
I have not found any reasonable explanation to why some shows were deleted on the 8300. I still have shows that are from the start of the year and several series recordings. I too noticed the deleted recordings AFTER I was cleaning out known shows that I wanted to be removed. I have been monitoring this for a while to get more data, but nothing else hase been deleted in that manner.
On the 8000, somehow, the "AUTO DELETE" function was re-enabled and I lost a few shows. That is explainable for that particular event as the drive was filled as I was gone for a week. Unfortunately, to record a few network HD shows, it deleted many of my digital SD series that barely took any space.
More info on show stopping in the middle of recording. During the time I was not using the DVR, but all the shows were recording, I never lost any shows or had any poblems. Everything was perfect while not using playback. Going through the records and looking this morning, I AM having problems with CBS and CSI getting cut off when I was playing back other shows on the drive... Last nights CSI was cut off after 23 minutes, but I was watching and FF through many other shows while it was recording. Going through my logs (I suggest others to write down which specific shows on specific channels have problems) I noticed that every show with this problem has only been on CBS, during times whne I was using the playback of the DVR.
If I had to guess, I would say this could be reated to the external drive and internal drive being used. One of them may have hit a bad sector and has to do a rewrite or replayback of the stream from cache, that causes a glitch in the memory. Another guess could be that I had been playing back several different shows and deleting them before this happened, and the memory could have been framented, causing a problem with low memory available. Looking at the software anomalies, there was an exception error during the recording time of CSI...
Last night, during the auto power down, I heard my internal drive do a defragmentation, contrary to what has been thought before. I think there were memory and virtual table issues that needed to be cleared out. I am sending the software anomaly to SA for further info (if possible) and will be resetting my DVR after heavy usage and before primetime recording to clear any memory issues.

vegggas

Veggas,
I noticed that last nights CSI got pushed back because of the OT football game. Lost the ending only here.

TerryB

Pacific Time Zone here in Vegas. Survivor and CSI each started on time at 8:00 and 9:00 PM accordingly with no earlier broadcasts interfering with primetime schedules. I watched Survivor live and deleted it right before the end (Stop Current Recording and Delete) and then watched the opening of CSI as it was confirmed to be recording. I then brought up the LIST and watched/FF/deleted a bunch of other shows.

vegggas

Thanks. Let me know what you find. It may be that my 8300 has gone bad. I noticed this just started happening within the past couple of weeks. Prior to that, there was no differnce in video quality between "Copy to VCR" and simply playing the recorded show.

"Copy to VCR" working fine with S-video for me.

Posted this in my local thread, and though I'd try here as well. Don't know what version of SARA we now have:

I have the SA8300HD with TWC-Greensboro and was hoping that someone with the same box can help me out. I believe we received a software update within the past few weeks that is causing some problems with the "Copy to VCR" function. I have my 8300 connected to a DVD-Recorder via s-video. When I try to record a show from the 8300's hard drive to the DVD-Recorder using the "Copy to VCR" option, the result is a DVD full of visual "jagged lines"--barely watcheable. However, if I simply record the show to the DVD-Recorder while the show is being played back on the 8300 (as opposed to "Copy to VCR"), the result on the DVD is fine--no jagged lines. I just noticed this started happening within the past few weeks. Anyone else experiencing this?

BTW, I know it's not my DVD-recorder, because I get the same results when I hook the 8300 directly to my TV with s-video.

Same problem here in Vegas, terrible picture when copy to VCR. Did they break it on purpose?

I think I asked this elsewhere, but here goes again.

Has anyone ever recorded something and couldn't get it to play back properly? I've had it happen several times, but only with SD programs. The recording plays back slightly faster or slower than normal speed, without audio. Neither back spacing nor fast forwarding to another spot makes a difference. It simply doesn’t work properly, so the recording is useless.

Why it happens only with SD is odd, but at least I can be thankful it’s always fine with HD, which I record 90% of the time.

I haven’t checked my version of SARA lately, but will post it here if it makes a difference.

Vegggas:

I got a second HD set and was wondering if you know if and when the MR systems will be launched and activated here in Vegas? BTW the info screens for my SA 8300HD says it a MR. Will it be swapped or upgraded to be a server? I have a perfect one thats virgin to us and we don't want one that was screwed with already. :D

The multiroom units have been in testing for a while in other markets and SD only versions are released already. I heard that they will be available in Vegas sometime in early 06, but nothing concrete. The bad news is that it seems that only the SD streams are able to be sent during the testing phase as reported by other areas, not sure what happens with an actual released product in our area.
The DVR system 1.4 incorporates the multiroom software in all the DVR's that use that version of code to make a standard platform across all of them. I don't think our current DVR's can be made to stream the content, so right now it appears that a swapout will be needed. I still currently use two HD DVR's in the main room. One is the 8000 and the other is the 8300 (with 300GB QV Expander), and I use an opened DVD case to cover the IR of the one I'm not using. I use the old 3250 in the upstairs bedroom and have a Replay DVR connected to that, but haven't even bothered to use it in about a year.

vegggas

I think I asked this elsewhere, but here goes again.

Has anyone ever recorded something and couldn't get it to play back properly? I've had it happen several times, but only with SD programs. The recording plays back slightly faster or slower than normal speed, without audio. Neither back spacing nor fast forwarding to another spot makes a difference. It simply doesn’t work properly, so the recording is useless.

Why it happens only with SD is odd, but at least I can be thankful it’s always fine with HD, which I record 90% of the time.

I haven’t checked my version of SARA lately, but will post it here if it makes a difference.

Hi, Jim. This happened to me a few weeks ago. I had recorded a couple of programs where I could only watch them in fast rewind, fast forward, or slow motion. The video would not advance in regular play mode. Another strange think I experienced recently is that several shows that had been stored on the DVR for about 3 months would no longer play (at all). I had viewed all of these at least once so at one time they were valid. A reboot seems to have taken care of the first problem, as far as preventing FUTURE defective recordings, but I'm still puzzled by the second problem.

CProgrammer:

Thanks for the reply. I haven't had your second problem that I know of, but I do have a couple of old recordings, which I'll try.

I haven't rebooted the DVR for several months, so I'll do that as well.

I've tried searching the thread for "extend" and "extending" but have no luck so far.

Is there a way to extend recordings in progress? I've had a couple of football games run over and I haven't found a way to extend the program in progress. I know it's easy enough to just record the next show, but I'd prefer to just extend the current recording.

Thanks,

Russell

After doing all this and the components working great. Today, I plugged the HDMI back in to see what would happen. What do you know going on 4 hours and no switch back to 480i.
...
Yes, I left the components connected. It didn't work alone even after a hard reboot.

I read a theory somewhere (not sure if it was this forum) that the HDMI connection on these boxes has problems keeping a common ground w/ the display and that people were having success using HDMI by connecting the coaxial RF cable as well. Anyone having HDMI problems care to test this out?

Originally Posted by trpltongue
I've tried searching the thread for "extend" and "extending" but have no luck so far.

Is there a way to extend recordings in progress? I've had a couple of football games run over and I haven't found a way to extend the program in progress. I know it's easy enough to just record the next show, but I'd prefer to just extend the current recording.

Thanks,

Russell


I'm pretty sure that this isn't possible. It can be done when setting up the "season pass" or manual recording, but not while it's recording. You could set up a manual recording for 5 minutes after the show you're currently recording (but it's just as easy to record the following show).

Hi, Jim. This happened to me a few weeks ago. I had recorded a couple of programs where I could only watch them in fast rewind, fast forward, or slow motion. The video would not advance in regular play mode.

Cprogrammer, this same thing happened to me the other night. A reboot didn't fix the problem, so I just deleted the show. Hope this does not happen again. JR

I've tried searching the thread for "extend" and "extending" but have no luck so far.

Is there a way to extend recordings in progress? I've had a couple of football games run over and I haven't found a way to extend the program in progress. I know it's easy enough to just record the next show, but I'd prefer to just extend the current recording.

Thanks,

Russell

For one time recordings I have gone into the scheduled recordings list and successfully extended the end time when the recording was in progress. If it's an all episodes recording you can make the changes but they won't hold.

RemyM,

That could explain it. I always went into the "recorded shows" view and not the "scheduled recordings". I'll try that next time.

...It can be done when setting up the "season pass" or manual recording, but not while it's recording....

Just so you know I would be careful on the use of that term "season pass" with an SA product. That is a feature that TiVo has patented and has sued others for trying to use such features they own.

Ok,

I asked this on another thread but did not get an answer. When I record a ballgame and come home to watch it before it is over how can I start and the beginning of the recording.

It seems no matter what I try it takes me to live TV of the game. (which when you don't want to see the score is really a pain). I use the list button, select the game and press select, and it promptly puts me in the game live.

It never gives me the choice to start at the beginning. If I wait until the game is over it works fine, but that is also a big hassle.

I just recently got an SA8300HD DVR and am often frustrated by this. It is completely absurd that when a program is in the midst of recording you must rewind through it manually to start watching from the beginning of the recording. Someone please tell me this has been fixed and I just haven't figured it out...

Once again, this is a copyright issue. Tivo owns the rights to this feature and recently reached agreement with others (or they found a workaround that doesn't violate the copyright). The next version of the SARA OS reportedly supports a Start From Beginning option. There is a version of software out there that supports it, but there are too many other problems and I believe only 1 cableco is using that software. Just be patient a bit longer. :)

I just recently got an SA8300HD DVR and am often frustrated by this. It is completely absurd that when a program is in the midst of recording you must rewind through it manually to start watching from the beginning of the recording. Someone please tell me this has been fixed and I just haven't figured it out...

With Cablevision if I select the show from the recorded programs listing I get the option of viewing from the begining or current location. The other advantage of this is that when the program ends you will not get kicked out. You'll be watching the show on the DVR channel (1000 in my case) as opposed to the native channel.

meecal,
I have a beta test version of SARA which has start playback from beginning. There are issues with the version and so it has not been released. It has been hinted that there may be another version to test very soon.

TerryB

The TiVo patent didn't stop Motorola from implementing the start-from-beginning feature in the 6412 (well before they reached the TiVo porting agreement this year). The inability to perform this most basic function on the 8300 simply drives me insane.

Having lived with a DirecTiVo, a Comcast 6412, and the 8300 (w/ SARA) has been enlightening to say the least. The DirecTiVo was a near-perfect (albeit HDTV-free) dream, the 6412 wasn't bad but had some minor flaws, and the 8300 is the Fisher-Price version of the bunch. Crude interface, goofy menu structure, non-intuitive operation, ineffectual guide data for usage in series recordings, etc. I can't wait for the Comcast deal to complete so I can get a real DVR again....

Must not be too bad or you would've switched to DTV or E* and used their HD DVRs.

I have no choice. Adelphia has the cable license (read:monopoly) for my town, the trees in my yard are too tall to allow for a line of sight to the DirecTV birds, and I'm in a slight valley so OTA is spotty at best. If you can point me to another alternative, I'm all ears...

Must not be too bad or you would've switched to DTV or E* and used their HD DVRs.Probably can't because of current location or something like that, but you make an excellent point.

FWIW, I've peeked at some 6412 threads and they didn't look very pretty to me.

What so many of these folks don't care to acknowledge is that, unlike Tivo, SA doesn't control the IPG, they only program around it to make their equipment work as well as it does and they have to deal with several different IPGs. They also have to live with the short-sighted restraints imposed by cableco's. Everyone who doesn't like the 8300 for not being a Tivo at cable prices bashes SA and/or the 8300 when it's the cableco's, their lame IPGs, and their reluctance to spend the money to get the latest and greatest in IPG technology.

That reminds me:
For those of you on Comcast in New England, do you have the updated IPG with the "Record New Episodes" option?

As I said previously, the 6412 is not without fault. Analog picture quality is garbage (mitigated by digital simulcast), it likes to mute when it is powered down, it tended to 'buffer" IR remote commands and then "replay" them in quick succession, and there were some series recordings irregularities which lead to early morning lockups/crashes. Despite these faults, it's a far more user-friendly and functional box than the 8300 w/ SARA.

The 8300 should be a better DVR than the 6412. It's a superior piece of hardware, with a larger hard drive, PIP infrastructure which allows two-zone or "dump to VCR" functionality and it doesn't feel like it's CPU underpowered. It's purely the software operations of the unit that I have a beef with.

I recognize that Adelphia in it's current state doesn't want to outlay cash to upgrade to a real IPG (like Passport or TiVo or whatever). Hopefully, Comcast coming in will remedy this situation in short order. If not, TiVo's CableCard 2.0 HDTV DVR will be available next year, and I'll likely jump on that.

It's purely the software operations of the unit that I have a beef with.That's my only point. I simply try to place blame where it belongs, with the cheapo cableco's that won't spring for a decent IPG and related software. Blanket statements about the 8300 tend to bash the hardware, even if unintended, and that presents a skewed picture IMO. Every software update has increased the 8300 functionality and that tells me there is nothing wrong with the hardware itself. If cableco's spent the money on software that Tivo does, I think the 8300 is fully capable of delivering Tivo quality service.

If cable-Tivo's deliver as advertised, I think almost everyone would consider switching, unless the price is simply too high. I know a lot of folks think Tivo is well worth the $12.95 or whatever it costs, but I've yet to see how much Comcast/Tivo is going to charge, so I will defer judgement. Once SARA OS 1.5 comes, I'm not sure what Tivo would offer ME other than a Wish List and 2 week's worth of programming data. I don't use any sort/search features now, probably because they are useless in the current form. I do use TitanTV and perhaps Tivo would negate that need.

Do we have an expected delivery date for Sara OS 1.5 ?

Not that I have seen, though it shouldn't be too much longer. From what I understand it is a complete rewrite incorporating all the changes to date and new functions (FF4, Start From Beginning, no more Kick To Live, etc.). Maybe vegggas will see this and comment, if he can.

The next version of the SARA OS reportedly supports a Start From Beginning option. There is a version of software out there that supports it, but there are too many other problems and I believe only 1 cableco is using that software. Just be patient a bit longer. :)

We are running SARA version 1.88.11.2 on Cablevision. We have start from beginning, and a 4th FF and RW speed. When you use the start from beginning option you don't get kicked out to live. I haven't had any problems in the 5 months that I've had it. It has worked flawlessly for me.

Well, that seals it for me. We poor Adelphia customers won't be seeing these features any time soon. If the firmware's been available for five months, then clearly either 1) Adelphia's sitting on their hands waiting for the Comcast takeover to complete, or 2) they don't care about customer satisfaction.

Well, that seals it for me. We poor Adelphia customers won't be seeing these features any time soon. If the firmware's been available for five months, then clearly either 1) Adelphia's sitting on their hands waiting for the Comcast takeover to complete, or 2) they don't care about customer satisfaction.

Why do you say EITHER/OR? What about BOTH?

However, I've seen the initial reports of 1.88.11.2 (unfortunately, I can't recall exactly where) and there were lots of compatability issues for many users. In fact, it was cited as a good example why systems should NOT rush into an upgrade. The thing is that there is lots of different equipment in a cable system that need to interact with each other. Any time you introduce a change you run a chance for unintended interactions. And every cable system is different. What works OK in one system may not in another.

Well, that seals it for me. We poor Adelphia customers won't be seeing these features any time soon. If the firmware's been available for five months, then clearly either 1) Adelphia's sitting on their hands waiting for the Comcast takeover to complete, or 2) they don't care about customer satisfaction.Paul, don't get so excited. :)

There were/are a lot of problems with that version and that's why no one else has deployed it. There may have been some fixes for Cablevision, but all other cableco's are waiting for OS 1.5 and don't want to inflict their customers with lost recordings, etc., just to get a faster FF and Start From Beginning option.

If you look back through this thread (maybe serch for 1.88), you will see that all was/in not well with the 1.88.x.x series software. Also, you'll see several of my posts in this thread where I haven't run into a lot of problems that others have. That doesn' mean they don't exist, it just means I use my unit differently or my IPG is more stable, etc. The fact that Remy is happy now simply means he may not have the same experience as others, though it seems to me he originally posted about some of the problems way back when.

Also, I believe Cablevision was the beta-test site for this version, so there is no telling when it was made available to other cableco's, if at all.

DoubleDAZ:

Just curious, how does OS 1.5 relate to SARA versions, like 1.88?

I have no choice. Adelphia has the cable license (read:monopoly) for my town, the trees in my yard are too tall to allow for a line of sight to the DirecTV birds, and I'm in a slight valley so OTA is spotty at best. If you can point me to another alternative, I'm all ears...

Ask your phone company why they are not offering TV sevices after that big deregulation bill in the 90's that allowed them to offer such competition! :eek:

DoubleDAZ:

Just curious, how does OS 1.5 relate to SARA versions, like 1.88?
If you look at the diagnostics displays for the software versions you will see references to an PTV OS:OS, Home Server Edition 1.4 and Flash:1.87.16.1 or some such numbers. My understanding (and simplistic explanation) is that the OS part is the base coding that is only updated to incorporate a major revision and/or a multitude of fixes whereas the Flash part is all the revision/fixes between OS releases. It really dosn't matter much to the end user because it's all pretty much really one program, it's more of a way for programmers to keep track of things. It's kind of like Windows XP with SP1 and SP2.

DoubleDAZ:

Thanks for the explanation. As a former systems programmer, it makes perfect sense to me.

Ask your phone company why they are not offering TV sevices after that big deregulation bill in the 90's that allowed them to offer such competition! :eek:

Over what medium, pray tell ?

The same 'ole copper they're been running since the dawn of time ? Not enough bandwidth there for TV services. Even now, with ADSL2+, if you happen to live across the street from the CO, you *might* have enough downspeed to support video services. Otherwise ? You're screwed.

Now that Verizon's laying a crapload of fiber for their FIOS product, I think we'll see much more competition in the video services space. They'll definitely give Comcast a run for their money...

I'm not trying to defend the wannabe-monopolistic and slow-moving telco's, but the technology simply hasn't been there until very recently. It's not entirely their fault.

That's true, Paul. US West started rolling out TV services before the Qwest takeover a number of years ago. Unfortunately, that whole process has stalled, presummably because Qwest didn't/doesn't think TV services are worth the money/effort. This was before HD, so there may be some technology problems now as well. They still offer services in the original areas, but there is not much, if any, cost savings for the consumer, it's more a matter of the convenience of a single bill and services provider.

Jim,

You're welcome. I'm sure it's a lot more complicated than that, but I think that gives the gist of things.

Paul, don't get so excited. :)

If you look back through this thread (maybe serch for 1.88), you will see that all was/in not well with the 1.88.x.x series software. Also, you'll see several of my posts in this thread where I haven't run into a lot of problems that others have. That doesn' mean they don't exist, it just means I use my unit differently or my IPG is more stable, etc. The fact that Remy is happy now simply means he may not have the same experience as others, though it seems to me he originally posted about some of the problems way back when.

The first version that had the start from beginning option did have problems with missed recordings, and yes, I had a few of those. That issued lasted for two or three weeks before the current version was pushed to us in July. I have had no such issues since that arrived and I record on average four to five shows a day on my SA8300HD. Without the start from beginning, no kick out to live, and 4th FF speed, I would not be as happy with this box as I currently am. To be able to start to watch the Giants game yesterday at 3:00 without having to bring up the live point and rewind is, as MasterCard would say, priceless. I'm happy to be a beta tester for the rest of you. I hope you all get the new features soon because it has truly changed the way I watch television.

Sorry if this has been recently covered, but could someone either give me a quick explanation or point me to the best post on how to transfer files from my 8300HD to a NAS for distribution around my house? I assume it may need to be modified somehow on a computer so I can view it with some type of networked player. Thanks

KAS, check out the Master List of 8300 links (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=581843). There is one that discusses using Firewire, but it assumes the Firewire is active on your 8300, not many are yet.

Has anyone successfully used the Copy to VCR function from the 8300HD where you send the recording to a DVD recorder (no hard drive - straight to dvd). I read somewhere that it records with black bars on the top and bottom of the screen. Is that true only for HD stations? I would appreciate any help or direction here to do this right.

Has anyone successfully used the Copy to VCR function from the 8300HD where you send the recording to a DVD recorder (no hard drive - straight to dvd). I read somewhere that it records with black bars on the top and bottom of the screen. Is that true only for HD stations? I would appreciate any help or direction here to do this right.

The SA8300HD sends an SD 4:3 Signal out of the video-out jack with Copy-to-VCR. If the program was an HD program it is downcoverted to letterboxed 4:3 (bars top and bottom). No anamorphic out.

The SA8300HD sends an SD 4:3 Signal out of the video-out jack with Copy-to-VCR. If the program was an HD program it is downcoverted to letterboxed 4:3 (bars top and bottom). No anamorphic out.

and the output looks like *rap! :mad:

Record it in real time using the zoom settings that work best for 4:3. Unless you will be playing it back on a 16:9 set.

I am pretty confused as I have both 16:9 and 4:3 sets for playback. So if I know I am going to offload from 8300 to DVD, should I record on a non-HD station, when given a choice. Will I always have bars

I believe that the box will letterbox any widescreen formats when you record using the Record-to-VCR function and its dedicated outputs. It will also letterbox any widescreen content when recording by simply connecting to the regular RF, S-video (or the component outputs set to SD*).

As far as I can tell, he was telling you to use the regular output (RF,S-video,composite) as if you were watching it setting the STB aspect ratio to what you like.

Alternatively, as you said, you could record the 4:3 station and just not worry about it.

v/r,
C-F

* although at some point there was some mention of troubles setting the STB to SD mode with one version or maybe Passport...

and the output looks like *rap! :mad:

Ain't that the truth.

I bought a box(Stripe Master http://www.icos-tech.com/products/analogue.html) to convert 480i component to s-video. I copy to my DVDR through this box. It is a pain to have to reconfigure the 8300 for 480i output only, but then one can play recorded HD and capture it as anamorphic video with stereo sound. The end result is a pretty nice DVD-R.

Don

The output looks fine letterboxed. The scaler on my old hitachi zooms it fine. Maybe it's your dvd recorder? my little iLO records great even in 4 hour mode.

and the output looks like *rap! :mad:

Foghorn2, are you referring to this type of problem that I posted about a couple of weeks ago:

Posted this in my local thread, and though I'd try here as well. Don't know what version of SARA we now have:

I have the SA8300HD with TWC-Greensboro and was hoping that someone with the same box can help me out. I believe we received a software update within the past few weeks that is causing some problems with the "Copy to VCR" function. I have my 8300 connected to a DVD-Recorder via s-video. When I try to record a show from the 8300's hard drive to the DVD-Recorder using the "Copy to VCR" option, the result is a DVD full of visual "jagged lines"--barely watcheable. However, if I simply record the show to the DVD-Recorder while the show is being played back on the 8300 (as opposed to "Copy to VCR"), the result on the DVD is fine--no jagged lines. I just noticed this started happening within the past few weeks. Anyone else experiencing this?

BTW, I know it's not my DVD-recorder, because I get the same results when I hook the 8300 directly to my TV with s-video

Telemike and I are on the same TWC system, and he doesn't experience the problem that I do.

Call TWC about your box. I have no problems with S-video out to dvd recorder on my SA8300. Of course my iLO dvd recorder is macrovision disabled. :p

Foghorn2, are you referring to this type of problem that I posted about a couple of weeks ago:



Telemike and I are on the same TWC system, and he doesn't experience the problem that I do.


Yes, the same exact problem!

So what would likely look better on my new Pioneer 5060 50" plasma screen (720p native) - feeding it the 8300's standard 1080i or setting 720p as the standard output. I guess it's a matter of which deinterlaces better, the Pioneer or the Scientific Atlanta box. I know which costs more...

I don't want to use BOTH 1080i and 720p because of all the mode switching that would ensue.

Thanks.



blakespot

So what would likely look better on my new Pioneer 5060 50" plasma screen (720p native) - feeding it the 8300's standard 1080i or setting 720p as the standard output. I guess it's a matter of which deinterlaces better, the Pioneer or the Scientific Atlanta box. I know which costs more...

I don't want to use BOTH 1080i and 720p because of all the mode switching that would ensue.

Thanks.



blakespot I use passthrough with my Fujitsu 50" and that way I can save one rescaling step. Make certain your Pioneer does not automatically scale even with a 720p signal. My Fujitsu rescales every incoming signal to its native resolution (1364x768).

I would bet that your Pioneer scaler is better.

blakespot:

I also recommend using pass through, which automatically switches to whatever resolution is being broadcast (480i, 720p, 1080i). For me, at least, it makes life much simpler. There's no intervention other than channel changing.
Is your panel really 720p native? Pioneers are usually 1280 x 768, which is not the same thing.

At least in the version of SARA that we have (1.87.16.a109) using Pass-Through is a bit of a pain in the ass if you ever use the 8300 Zoom function: Zoom 1 goes to 480i & 4:3, Same with Zoom 2 (only closer). I get the same results with Upconvert 1 & with Upconvert 2. If I go with Fixed (either 720p or 1080i) Zoom works fine. This has been a particular issue for me when the lame NBC station that we are stuck with in Rochester fails to broadcast a program in real HD and shows the SD letterboxed network feed instead. It's a real bummer with big black bars all the way around the screen on a program that has been DVR'd.

At least in the version of SARA that we have (1.87.16.a109) using Pass-Through is a bit of a pain in the ass if you ever use the 8300 Zoom function: Zoom 1 goes to 480i & 4:3, Same with Zoom 2 (only closer). I get the same results with Upconvert 1 & with Upconvert 2. If I go with Fixed (either 720p or 1080i) Zoom works fine. This has been a particular issue for me when the lame NBC station that we are stuck with in Rochester fails to broadcast a program in real HD and shows the SD letterboxed network feed instead. It's a real bummer with big black bars all the way around the screen on a program that has been DVR'd.
Hmmmm. Not a problem here. Zoom works just fine. Not sure of my SARA version though. Haven't checked in a while. We were using zoom the other night because the Charlie Brown Christmas show was in 4:3 HiDef. So we zoomed in on it to fill the screen and even with the zoom the picture was still better than DVD.

Re what will likely look better. Everything tends to say the TV will do a better job of scaling, but only your eyes can tell what looks better to you and that's all that really matters. I've compared 720p to 1080i on my Hitachi CRT-based HDTV and could never see any difference. Since MOST HD channels are 1080i, I simply chose to use 1080i and avoid the reformatting that took place with 720p enabled. I also enable 480i so my HDTV will automatically expand 4:3 content. I use the Pass-Through setting (SARA 1.87.16.1) and have never noticed a problem with 8300 Zoom modes.

With pass-through mode, you may encounter problems if you don't enable all resolutions (480i/480p/wide/standard/etc) to pass through. When a native resolution is not allowed to pass through( i.e. this would generate a blank screen), it defaults a virtual upconvert mode.
This is mentioned in one of SA's 60 odd page manuals on the explorer's website. It says to enable all resolutions for passthrough and use upconvert if you eliminate some of the resolutions. By using passthrough with a deleted resolution, the STB is forced to choose an upconvert setting to display the image, and often remains in that state/resolution (i.e. fixed on 1080, 480, or 720)

vegggas

Never had any such problem and it's been almost a year now. :)

I still use Component, but I do often switch between SD/HD, ABC (720p)/CBS (1080i), etc.

On my 8300 I can find no setting under "preferences" that will enable me to preserve an already-recorded program for an additional week. Does anybody know of a workaround for this?

By using passthrough with a deleted resolution, the STB is forced to choose an upconvert setting to display the image, and often remains in that state/resolution (i.e. fixed on 1080, 480, or 720)\

My 8300 used to do this when I ran it with pass-through and had 720p disabled. I switched to using upconvert I (480p/1080i) and it hasn't done it since.

On my 8300 I can find no setting under "preferences" that will enable me to preserve an already-recorded program for an additional week. Does anybody know of a workaround for this?
You might be using Passport, but when I (with SARA) select a recording from my list, one of the options is "Change save time". I've never used it, but I assume it works.

Thanks, Dave. Of course you're right. I was looking under "preferences." Duh!

At least in the version of SARA that we have (1.87.16.a109) using Pass-Through is a bit of a pain in the ass if you ever use the 8300 Zoom function: Zoom 1 goes to 480i & 4:3, Same with Zoom 2 (only closer). I get the same results with Upconvert 1 & with Upconvert 2. If I go with Fixed (either 720p or 1080i) Zoom works fine. This has been a particular issue for me when the lame NBC station that we are stuck with in Rochester fails to broadcast a program in real HD and shows the SD letterboxed network feed instead. It's a real bummer with big black bars all the way around the screen on a program that has been DVR'd.
Update on this: After veggas made his comment (thanks :) , by the way), I took a look at my set-up: I had 1080i, 720p, 480i widescreen & 480i standard enabled. I changed it to also enable the two 480p modes and checked Zoom again. Now it worked OK. To pursue this further & disabled 480p WS and checked - OK. Then disabled 480p Std - also OK. So after I went through this set-up and leaving settings where they had originally been Zoom works OK. Must have been that something was in a "funny state" that both a soft and a hard reboot wouldn't fix, but doing the set-up again would.

Go figure :confused:

im confused
so if i have a 16:9 tv, should i enable all the resolutions?
use pass through, fixed, upconvert?

davehancock,
Your setup will be good until you choose a 480P resolution, like one of the music channels. Then the STB will be FORCED to choose an upconvert mode to display the native 480p at 1080i or 720p, or possibly even downconvert everything down to 480i. When this happens, it may get stuck at a fixed resolution, or possibly an upconvert mode that acts weird.

anthony1974ny,
There is no wrong answer. It depends on what resolutions your display can handle. If can handle ALL resolutions, including 720P, then passthrough may be a good choice. If it only handles 1080i, then fixed at 1080 would be better. Of course, this all depends on what you see in front of you. Some prefer different scenarios and quality by letting either the STB or the TV to do the scaling. It's up to you.

vegggas

im confused
so if i have a 16:9 tv, should i enable all the resolutions?
use pass through, fixed, upconvert?
If you enable ALL formats, you will notice a bit of reformatting take place as you switch between channels that are 1080i to those that are 720p (ABC, ESPN, FOX) to those that are 480i (SD/Analogs) and to those that are 480p (Music Channels). If this bothers you, do some testing and see what looks best to you.

My HDTV does 1080i natively, so I compared ABC/ESPN/FOX in 720p and 1080i and could see not difference and I disabled 720p to eliminate that reformat. I then looked at the Music Channels in 480p/480i and could see no difference, so there went 480p. I checked the various 480i formats (wide, standard, etc.) and saw not difference from plain old 480i, so there went the others. I then tried Pass-Through and Upconvert1 and also saw difference. I have had none of the problems with the format getting stuck, so I just stayed with Pass-Through and 480i/1080i.

All this varies a lot depending on your model HDTV, the type connection you use (Component/HDMI/DVI), and probably some other variables. The botomline is to test different scenarios and see what works best for you. If you run into some problems, you can always change your settings to see if the problems go away. It's also wise to recheck things as new software is released because they constantly strive to improve things.

davehancock,
Your setup will be good until you choose a 480P resolution, like one of the music channels. Then the STB will be FORCED to choose an upconvert mode to display the native 480p at 1080i or 720p, or possibly even downconvert everything down to 480i. When this happens, it may get stuck at a fixed resolution, or possibly an upconvert mode that acts weird.

That's interesting: the Music Channels are 480p? I default to one of them (for auto power on). I sort of thought that the (the video part - not audio) were not real video, but a static data stream containing the info to be displayed and that the box decided what format to use for display (based on what, I don't know). I just switched to that from a 1080i recording - and it's 1080i (with black bars on the sides).

That's interesting: the Music Channels are 480p?
Yeah, and I've never understood why. It's not like there is a lot of action on those channels, though they might have chosen 480p for eventual music videos.

I must say this whole issue is perplexing. Usually these kind of problems can be duplicated, or at least reproduced often enough, to eliminate potential causes. But, I simply can't figure out why I don't experience the same problem based on my settings of only 480i/1080i and Pass-Through. One would think this problem would be all or nothing, that is, everyone would experience it sooner or later given the same settings. I don't tune to the Music Channels for any length of time, but I do scan through a couple of them when scanning through my Favorites list. I can't believe this is limited to SARA version 1.87.16.A109 and that's why I don't see it.

Yeah, but Dave, after I went through the set-up (even though I eventually set everything the same) it went away. I believe that somehow I had things set in some "funny state" that I cleared by going through set-up.

Just chalk it up to weird.

But, one person on our local foum did find he was able to duplicate it!

Go figure :confused:

I was talking more about the format "freeze" vegggas was referring to than your Zoom problem, though I'm not sure why setup would fix that any better than a hard reboot. I also don't understand why I don't suffer from most of these maladies. I've had the occassional deleted program while I was deleting others and some missed recordings due to IPG errors, but none of this other stuff. I do keep my list of recorded programs clean and I also clean my schedule fairly frequently, but I still record 2 while watching 1 and use FF/REW frequently, scan through channels, etc. I guess I'v e just got a unit that was made on a Wednesday and maybe the 1.87.16.1 software was loaded here on a Wednesday too. :)

I am currently using component from the 8300 to a Sony KDF60XS955. Should I be using HDMI or will I have problems?

I am currently using component from the 8300 to a Sony KDF60XS955. Should I be using HDMI or will I have problems?

I have a similar TV (E55A20). It works fine with HDMI. I have never seen any problems with the 8300HD.

I am currently using component from the 8300 to a Sony KDF60XS955. Should I be using HDMI or will I have problems?

Thinking about switching from D* to Cablevision and wondered if, when using the 8300 in HDMI mode, it ALWAYS reformats the signal to try to match the display resolution (768P in my case), or does it continue to pass through the native resolution, but in digital format?

My plasma has a "zoom memory" for each input signal resolution and I don't want to lose the ability to have my plasma automatically "wide-zoom" 480i, but leave 720p and 1080i alone.

Also, if connected via component and using native pass through, is there any lag when changing channels due to resolution changes?

Thanks in advance for any input.

/steve

Also, if connected via component and using native pass through, is there any lag when changing channels due to resolution changes?
Yes, there is, but only when going from a channel that broadcasts in one reslution to one in another and it doesn't keep you from continuing on to the next channel. For example, when you cycle through SD channels, there is no lag since they are all 480i. When you get to one in 1080i, there is a lag for the reformat, but you can keep on going if that is not the channel you want. The same holds when you hit a 720p channel like ABC, FOX or ESPN. BTW, you can eliminate all but the switch from SD to HD by disabling either 720p or 1080i, probably 1080i in your case.

....I don't experience the same problem based on my settings of only 480i/1080i and Pass-Through.....
I was checking something else and discovered I untentionally lied, I do have 480p enabled and that is probably why I don't have the problem with the format freezing. :)

...probably 1080i in your case.

Thanks, Dave. Agree. I currently have my HD Tivo configured to (manually) toggle between 480i and 1080i, connected via HDMI.

Are you connected via component or HDMI? Is the behavior the same either way?

/steve

The lag between resolutions is based on your display, not the STB. Some displays resync rather quickly and some take a few seconds.
Also, using HDMI, the display controls the STB resolution output. If you have a non-standard native HD resolution, like 1024x768, the Display may request an incorrect resolution and timing from the STB. At that point, the STB may be confused and put out an undesired resolution. With Component outputs, the STB controls the resolution regardless of the Display, based on your settings in the STB setup wizard.

billatlakegeorge,
Some Sony RP units convert the non-native HDMI/DVI display signals back to analog for scaling and then display the image. Your best image would be a 720p 1-to-1 pixel mapped signal from ESPN or ABC, while other 1080 channels may suffer from D-A-A-D conversion. YMMV

DoubleDAZ,
When I do some houskeeping on my DVR's and clean out all my cancelled, scheduled shows, things seem to work smoothly. Right now, with all the cancelled shows and lineup changes, my unit is all over the place. It's around this time I start to see issues pop up. Once I clear everything out, it should be smooth sailing again. I think this is all related to the memory issues with the OS and virtual mapping of IPG, recorded data nad scheduled recording data. As more undefined data is left hanging for several weeks the memory doesn't get cleared correctly, until it reaches a point where something fails. This is just my opinion though and I still have no hard evidence or confirmation from SA.

vegggas

I was checking something else and discovered I untentionally lied, I do have 480p enabled and that is probably why I don't have the problem with the format freezing. :) I don't know why I did it, but when I first got the box and set it up I enabled all resolutions. Upon reflection, it just seemed logical to me that I should allow all resolutions if I was going to use passthrough, else I would not get a real passthrough on all signals. Also, I preferred my Fujitsu AVM processing do any rescaling rather than the 8300. Never had a problem.

...and that's the truth! I think.

Are you connected via component or HDMI? Is the behavior the same either way?
Component. I see vegggas has provided a much more technical explanation of how all this works than I could, I'm just a small-town country boy. :)

Suffice it to say, the lag I get from 480i/480p/1080i resolution changes is not bothersome for me. I don't scan channels that much and even if I did, the reformat would only take place a few times as I go from SD to HD to Music and back to SD. I really only disabled 720p simply because I could see no PQ difference, not because of the reformatting. Whether or not all this would be distracting to you is something only you can decide.

I haven't tried HDMI mostly because my HDTV is CRT-based and will not benefit as much as digital displays do, so I don't know how HDMI works compared to Component other than the "lessons" vegggas gives me here. :)

I don't know why you are thinking of switching and what you plan to do with your HD Tivo if you do, but the 8300s interface is not up to Tivo standards, so that might be something to consider along with the format/HDMI questions.

I don't know why I did it, but when I first got the box and set it up I enabled all resolutions.
I did too, but then I got to thinking about why enable a format that isn't used, so I disabled those 480i's that I don't have a need for. I then compared 720p to 1080i on those channels that use 720p. Since my display is 1080i, I see no need to pass 720p, mostly to eliminate the associated reformat during channel scans, when there is no PQ difference on my setup. Others may have different results and should by all means enable all formats that work for them. I'm not sure now exactly why I left 480p enable other than I simply don't remember re-enabling at some point, though I know I did. It could be the result of another discussion on the format freeze problem, I simply don't remember. It could also be that vegggas told me to and I always follow his excellent advice. :)

Since I'm sucking up, vegggas, any more on OS 1.5? :D

<SNIP>
Since I'm sucking up, vegggas, any more on OS 1.5? :D
Nothing yet... I've had feelers out looking for approval through Cox Corporate and SA, but nobody's come back to me yet. Original timeframes for release were around the end of the year though...
Unfortunately, with the Cisco buyout, many people are under NDA's (or just not getting info) until it's approved and are not allowed to let anything leak out. I know people at Cisco too, and it's a touchy subject right now. The OS DVR 1.5 should not be affected by the news, but due to the happenings, everyone's mouth is shut.

vegggas

[...] Also, using HDMI, the display controls the STB resolution output. [...]

Thanks for all the great info, guys. Sounds like Vegggas is confirming my fear that with an HDMI connection, 480i will be upconverted by the SA box to my Fujitsu's 1366 x 768 native res and, presumably, uniformly stretched wide in the process? I assume that like my HD Tivo, the SA box does NOT offer a non-uniform anamorphic stretch option for pillar-boxed content, similar to Fujitsu's "wide zoom" or Panasonic's "just" modes?

If so, I guess I'd have to use a component connection if I made the switch, to take advantage of my Fujitsu's ability to store different parameters, such as zoom mode, for different incoming signal resolutions.

/steve

Thanks for all the great info, guys. Sounds like Vegggas is confirming my fear that with an HDMI connection, 480i will be upconverted by the SA box to my Fujitsu's 1366 x 768 native res and, presumably, uniformly stretched wide in the process? I assume that like my HD Tivo, the SA box does NOT offer a non-uniform anamorphic stretch option for pillar-boxed content, similar to Fujitsu's "wide zoom" or Panasonic's "just" modes?

If so, I guess I'd have to use a component connection if I made the switch, to take advantage of my Fujitsu's ability to store different parameters, such as zoom mode, for different incoming signal resolutions.

/steve
That was my conclusion. I've just stuck with component with my Fujitsu P50. I did try HDMI but honestly could not tell any difference in quality. I think it might be because the broadcasts are not fully ramped up. Once they start allocating the ncecessary bandwidth, etc. it may make a differnece, but I am just speculating here.

David

I also stick with Component because it works,letting my HDTV automatially expand SD channels. I wouldn't expect to see a PQ difference on my Hitachi CRT HDTV, but I'm surprised you didn't see any on your P50. I can tell you that CBS here uses as much bandwidth as is possible and Cox passes the full amount along. I can't imagine the PQ being any better. Other channels vary on how much bandwidth they use and ABC multicasts, making their live stuff look worse than it should. MMF, even at 720p, sucks compared to CBS or even FOX, CBS being 1080i and FOX being 720p also.

I also stick with Component because it works,letting my HDTV automatially expand SD channels. I wouldn't expect to see a PQ difference on my Hitachi CRT HDTV, but I'm surprised you didn't see any on your P50. I can tell you that CBS here uses as much bandwidth as is possible and Cox passes the full amount along. I can't imagine the PQ being any better. Other channels vary on how much bandwidth they use and ABC multicasts, making their live stuff look worse than it should. MMF, even at 720p, sucks compared to CBS or even FOX, CBS being 1080i and FOX being 720p also.
In general, I am in agreement with you DoubleDAZ. And, I know that you know a lot more about this than I do, but...

Let me tell you that our CBS HD broadcasts are fine as long as it isn't sports. Boy, you get a close up on a football player running and it all falls apart. ABC's 720 feed is much much better, although not quite as good as ESPN's HD feed.

I've called our local affiliate who swear that they are passing the signal with full bandwidth to TWC, who in turn swear that they are allocating all the bandwidth needed, so what is a poor slob to do?

It's still watchable but frustrating because it needn't be so.

Honestly, I could see no difference in HDMI and component after repeated switching. I must admit however, I did get tired and maybe after 3 glasses of Cline Mourvedre I just couldn't "see" a difference, but honestly I looked long and hard... way before the wine. :D

Nothing yet... I've had feelers out looking for approval through Cox Corporate and SA, but nobody's come back to me yet. Original timeframes for release were around the end of the year though...
Unfortunately, with the Cisco buyout, many people are under NDA's (or just not getting info) until it's approved and are not allowed to let anything leak out. I know people at Cisco too, and it's a touchy subject right now. The OS DVR 1.5 should not be affected by the news, but due to the happenings, everyone's mouth is shut.

vegggas


Thanks for the update, vegggas. It's appreciated.

New feature on SA8300HD (I think)

TWC, Greensboro NC.

Pressing the "A" (yellow triagle) button while watching a Channel pops up small quick menu to go to:

Account
HD Channels
News
and a few other things not all of which are active at this time.

Telemike,
Do you know what version you have? I just got 1.88.15.3 to test in Houston, and it might have these new tricks.



TerryB

I have not checked the version number yet. TWC here has added a whole bunch of 900 series channels that duplicated the SD analog cable channels. There is no guide info for these new channels yet. I think they will be rolled out officially in 2006 although they obviously are testing things now. There are also some 1100 channels named C1, C2, etc. that are SD movie channels, BBC America, HSN, Zee TV. I really don't care about getting the movie channels as I'd rather rent a DVD which is WIDESCREEN. The digital SD is a little bit better than the Analog (no analog noise).

In general, I am in agreement with you DoubleDAZ. And, I know that you know a lot more about this than I do, but...
I doubt I know any more than others who read these threads and report their experiences. The only reason I can report our bandwidth numbers is because we have some local folks who record a lot of programming and they kindly post the TSReader numbers. One site is http://members.cox.net/jginaz/, in case you are interested. Our ABC appears to be like your CBS, scripted programs are great, but live stuff just isn't up to par. In our case, we know it's due to multicasting and the TSReader results show that. We've tried for over2 years to get ABC to turn off the multicast for just 1 MNF game, but they've steadfastly refused. Of course, that won't matter too much longer as MNF moves to ESPN. :)

Some of the other channels here, like FOX I believe, use newer equipment that can reallocate bandwidth on the fly and their live programming looks as good as CBS's. Not sure how all this is going to play out as more channels look into multicasting for 24/7 weather, news, etc. I guess time will tell. Fortunately, we have ways to validate whether or not stations are honest when they say they use the full spectrum, etc. We also have good station representation in our local Arizona HDTV Forums and they are very open to discussing all this with us and trying different approaches to satisfy their needs to stay competitive and provide us the best PQ/audio possible. Even ABC works with us on anything other than the multicast issue and we certainly appreciate it.

I have not checked the version number yet. TWC here has added a whole bunch of 900 series channels that duplicated the SD analog cable channels. There is no guide info for these new channels yet. I think they will be rolled out officially in 2006 although they obviously are testing things now.Cox did the same thing here about 6 months ago and nothing ever came of it, so I hope you have better luck, though I didn't see that much difference either. I suspect the digital simulcasts will come back sometime next year, but who knows. They actually gave us an implementation date and then cancelled at the last minute with no explanation, of course. :)

Thanks for the insiight DoubleDAZ!

HI All,
I got the box about a week ago and have read this entire thread :eek:
Still a couple of questions - my set is an ED plasma - 480p
1. Any reason whatsoever to hook up the composite connections?
2 Any reason to allow any other formats beside 480p and 480i to pass thru?
3. Why do my analog stations say they are 480p? I enabled boyh 480i&p but the box seems stuck on p for all channels
4. Why does DiscHD have black bars top and bottom no matter what I do?
Thanks this forum is a wealth of info! :)

With 480i/480p, HD channels in 16:9 format will be letterboxed to 4:3. You might need to enable 1080i on the box and let your tv (if it can) downrez the signal (using passthrough) to 480p widescreen.

Thanks I'll give it a try when I get home-
I did try the 1080i and coulda swore it looked better but it was hard to tell - the only channel which continues to letter box is discovery - not sure why - also I haven't been able to use any of the boxes zoom modes (& no # key on remote) and sometimes HD is stuck in Zoom while in 1080i but not 480p so iI disabled it :confused:

Thanks for the update. I'm gonna have to remember this one.
having same problem with 8300 hd, works fine going from hdmi to dvi on sony projection, but when i go to onkyo txsr803 via hdmi then out hdmi to dvi on tv it states non hdcp compliant. is there an upgrade to this problem

What other channels have you tried (and when) that are broadcasting HD but do not have top/bottom bars? None of the networks broadcast HD during the day except for a few programs, so make sure you are comparing HD programs, there should be nothing unique about DSC-HD.

On a side note, all analog/SD channels are broadcast as 480i, the music channels are 480p, and the HD channels are either 720p or 1080i. If it were me, I'd start troubleshooting by enabling each format individually one at a time and use the Fixed format option. I'd use the same channels to verify the PQ and make sure I was looking at HD content when checking the HD channels to compare with DSC-HD. An "HD" broadcast on CBS should look different than an HD broadcast on DSC-HD when it comes to bars. Once you've seen which format(s) give you the best PQ, you can enable those and forget about the rest. My guess would be that you'll end up with 480i and let your TV scle to 480p. You may find that 720p or 1080i does provide a better PQ for the HD channels when downcnverted to 480p by your TV. I doubt you'll see a difference between 480i and 480p, but who knows? Just because the music channels use 480p, there is no reason to enable it if it doesn't do anything of value.

I don't know how your TV works with regard to stretching non-HD channels if you only enable 1080i, so you need to check any stretch modes you use as you test each format even if 1080i provides the best PQ for all channels. My HDTV will not stretch any non-HD channels when in 1080i mode, so I have 480i enabled for those. That way 480i channels get expanded to fill the screen and HD channels get passed through. Be sure to turn off any TV stretch modes while testing formats.

I don't use the 8300 stretch modes at all, but if your remote doesn't have a # key, you can still access the stretch modes using the Settings key. There is an option in the Quick Settings for Picture Size.

As for your original question about the composite connection, there is no reason to connect any cables other than those you need; Component or DVI/HDMI along with audio.

Some of your comments (particularly the one about the 8300 being stuck in zoom mode sometimes) make me question just how things are set up (both the 8300 and your TV) or if your 8300 is working correctly. If you are using only 480i/480p, like telemike says, all HD should end up with top/bottom bars, not just DSC-HD. AFAIK, DSC-HD broadcasts a full 16x9 image (178:1) whereas other HD channels broadcast some content OAR (235:1, etc.), resulting in top/bottom bars even on the HD channels on an HDTV.

Thanks telemike & doubledaze,
I tried a lot of things and found this-
I meant PBS not DISC has the bars
I cannot access any ZOOM modes via the box no matter what :mad:
When a 720p or 1080i signal is received via component it is stuck on my Pannys FULL mode so I can't see the entire screen, score etc.
The remote has a HD zoom button -it does nothing
In settings there are no stretch modes only the pass thru and border colors
If I disable 720 and 1080 I can use all my Panny zooms except auto for 480p
If I am watching HD via 480i why pay for HD? :confused:
Once again I have a Panny ED plasma
I set the box to pass thru
Thanks for your help

Trying to find my way around here... any advice, pointers appreciated.

Q1. What's difference between 8000HD and 8300HD? I think I read somewhere that 8300 will output both hd and sd at same time (which I want). The 8000 definitely does not.

I have 8000 from TWC in Ithaca, NY. I think it's SARA not Passport -- pg 17/24 in diag screens shows:
ROM 1.87.16.109 6/24/05
OS 6.12.11.1 2/24/05
SARA 1.87.16.109 6/24/05

I seem to have the A button menu mentioned earlier.

Using AE900U with component. So far I only have stereo audio hooked up, so I haven't checked out DD issues yet.

regards.

8300HD outputs SD and HD at same time.

Thanks telemike & doubledaze,
I tried a lot of things and found this-
I meant PBS not DISC has the bars
I cannot access any ZOOM modes via the box no matter what :mad:
When a 720p or 1080i signal is received via component it is stuck on my Pannys FULL mode so I can't see the entire screen, score etc.
The remote has a HD zoom button -it does nothing
In settings there are no stretch modes only the pass thru and border colors
If I disable 720 and 1080 I can use all my Panny zooms except auto for 480p
If I am watching HD via 480i why pay for HD? :confused:
Once again I have a Panny ED plasma
I set the box to pass thru
Thanks for your help
1. HD is 720p or 1080i, so you will never see HD on your Panny EDTV. The best you will do is downconverted 480p, even if you enable 720p/1080i.

2. When you now say PBS instead of DSC-HD, what specific channel number are you viewing? What other HD channels are you viewing?

3. There are 2 sets of settings; Quick Settings when you press the Settings key once and General Settings when you press it a second time. If you scroll down in Quick Settings, there should be a Picture Format option unless your cableco hasn't enabled that option or you may be using Passport software, not SARA.

4. Many EDTVs/HDTVs do not allow sretching of HD channels since they are alreayd 16:9 full screen. I do now know how your EDTV reacts o a 1080i signal, so I can't be much help there. I can suggest you turn off any TV sretch modes before tuning to an HD channel to see if that makes a difference.

1. HD is 720p or 1080i, so you will never see HD on your Panny EDTV. The best you will do is downconverted 480p, even if you enable 720p/1080i.

True, but I've also got a 42PD50U and I can tell you that downconverted 720p or 1080i from my HD Tivo looks much better than 480P in. I guess the Panny scaler is better than the Tivo's. Not sure about the scaler in the SA8300.

/steve

sluciani:

You should get a better result when downscaling, not upscaling. Upscaling has to create information which isn't there, resulting in more artifacts.

1. HD is 720p or 1080i, so you will never see HD on your Panny EDTV. The best you will do is downconverted 480p, even if you enable 720p/1080i.

2. When you now say PBS instead of DSC-HD, what specific channel number are you viewing? What other HD channels are you viewing?

3. There are 2 sets of settings; Quick Settings when you press the Settings key once and General Settings when you press it a second time. If you scroll down in Quick Settings, there should be a Picture Format option unless your cableco hasn't enabled that option or you may be using Passport software, not SARA.

4. Many EDTVs/HDTVs do not allow sretching of HD channels since they are alreayd 16:9 full screen. I do now know how your EDTV reacts o a 1080i signal, so I can't be much help there. I can suggest you turn off any TV sretch modes before tuning to an HD channel to see if that makes a difference.

2. I have Cox and PBS and the other HD channels are all in the 700's , I can also see ESPN,Fox,ABC,DISC,WB and some others thatI don't remember

3. I have SARA - NO pic format in quick settings
general settings has a pic format , this allows for pass thru,fixed or the upconverts nothing else. The manual I downloaded from SA - The Explorer HDTV Set Up Wizard - says i should find this option in quick set up with no # button but it is not there :mad:

4. My Plasma manual says that when recieving a 720p or 1080i signal via component the mode is set to FULL and can't be adjusted... YUCK
peoples heads are to big, words are way off the page etc.. I need a fix :confused: It does say I would have NORMAL & ZOOM & FULL if the input was via RGB or PC

The pic seems better when I get a 720p or 1080i signal but the picture is just way to big for the screen?? Should call COX to find out about a solution for the boxes zoom because the remote HD zoom button does nothing??
TIA

sluciani:

You should get a better result when downscaling, not upscaling. Upscaling has to create information which isn't there, resulting in more artifacts.

Totally agree with you Jim. However, one would think that sending 480p to a native 480p device should result in the best picture, since no additional scaling is required. Strangely, though, this is not the case with my HD Tivo/42pd50u combo.

Be curious to know if this is also the case with the SA 8300's 480p output.

/steve

I have the SA 8300HD connected to a Toshiba 30" HD tube TV. I am connected
to Time Warner, New York City and have been trying to find the COPY TO VCR
OPTION. When I list my saved programs there is no RECORD OPTIONS, except
for save, erase, keep longer. Am I doing something wrong, I've tried switching
cables (HDMI to COMPONENT) still to copy to vcr option.

From the SA manual:
1. Connectg VCR to OUT2 connection on back of DVR
2. Make sure tape is in VCR and it is set to record
3. Press the List button on remote. Recorded shows appear
4. Move up or down the list to select the recording you want
5. Press Select. The recorded program options screen appears.
6. Press Move Up to select Copy to VCR
7. Press Select. The Copy to VCR screen appears.
8. Make sure VCR is properly connected to DVR outputs and press Record on your VCR
9. Press A for Start Copy. The recording begins copying to VCR tape. The Recorded List displays the VCR Symbol for the recording that is copying to VCR
Note: You can watch the copying progress through the PIP.

Did all of the above, followed SA manual still nothing appears. Called Time Warner and was
told they don't support it and could not give an answer.

sluciani - it does seem that the 1080i or 720p looks richer - I can't figure that out either?? I may end up though only enabling 480i &p though if I can't figure out how to de-zoom the higher signals.
Is there any way to hook component out to RGB in??

From the SA manual:
1. Connectg VCR to OUT2 connection on back of DVR
2. Make sure tape is in VCR and it is set to record
3. Press the List button on remote. Recorded shows appear
4. Move up or down the list to select the recording you want
5. Press Select. The recorded program options screen appears.
6. Press Move Up to select Copy to VCR
7. Press Select. The Copy to VCR screen appears.
8. Make sure VCR is properly connected to DVR outputs and press Record on your VCR
9. Press A for Start Copy. The recording begins copying to VCR tape. The Recorded List displays the VCR Symbol for the recording that is copying to VCR
Note: You can watch the copying progress through the PIP.

This works with TWC in Greensboro, NC. Your version of SARA probably does not support "Copy to VCR". It did not a year ago when I got the SA8000HD, but then around this time in 2005 they updated the SARA to support it.

Schex - I can answer your problem about PBS-HD in San Diego. Simply put, their HD encoder has been down for ~3 months now. That means no HD at all, just digital broadcast, non-widescreen. On my set it has the top and bottom bars as well when I'm in full mode.

You should definitely have the Picture Size = Normal, Stretch, Zoom 1 or Zoom 2 option in the Quick Settings with the SA8300 on Cox SD. Verify it is an 8300, not an 8000 and use the first post in this thread to check your SARA version. Current here in SD is 1.87.16.1.

DEIFan, Thanks that helps - I'll check when I get home but I am sure it is an 8300 but not sure on the version.
Does anyone else have the "new" remote with the HD zoom button on it?

Okay,
I just got my SA8300 2 weeks ago and it has been working fine.. Able to record both HD and SD with no prob...
However, this weekend I set the box to record two Christmas Specials and both came out nothing more than a black screen with some random colored pixels and loud screeching noise blaring out of the speakers. Both shows were on different channels at different times.

Any idea what might have caused this strange malfunction of black screen with random mostly red pixels. Audio no more than high pitched screeches?

Thanks

Schex - While I don't use the function, I do have a remote with the HD Zoom button on it and it works the same way as the choices in the Quick Settings for my 8300.

DEIFan,

Sure glad you cleared up the PBS image question, that was driving me nuts. :)

Schex,

You and DEIFan are on the same system and should have the same software, assuming you have an 8300HD and not the older 8000HD. Even if you don't have an HD Zoom button on your remote, you should still be able to Zoom using the Quick Settings, they are not dependent on which remote you have. Since you don't have that option, my thought is that either you have an 8000 or something is hosed in your software. Have you tried a "hard" reboot (the first post in this thread tells you how)? Have you gone through the Disgnostics screens to determine what software you are using (those instructions are also in the first post)? Did you check to see what unit you really have?

Yes I checked things out since I got home -
Definitely a 8300 says so right on the box
Sara version 1.87.16.1
HD ZOOM button functionless even with component or composite disconnected
One weird thing I noticed was with the composite disconnected my plasma still received video when I selected composite IN ~ very weird must default over or something
OK I'll try a reboot - it's to late to call Cox ;)
Greg

DEIFan - yes good catch on the PBS issue - I absolutely DO not have any stretch modes - yet you do?? You have both a functional button and a settings option.
Don't we have the same everything?? Maybe I should take a pic of my box and remote - would that help??

Yes I checked things out since I got home -
Definitely a 8300 says so right on the box
Sara version 1.87.16.1
Same version here, so I'm guessing something else is definitely wrong.
HD ZOOM button functionless even with component or composite disconnected
Exactly how do you have the 8300 connected to your EDTV?
....was with the composite disconnected my plasma still received video when I selected composite IN ~ very weird must default over or somethingIf you have multiple connections, not sure what will happen. Some TVs default if cables are connected to given inputs regardless of what you select in setup. Have you tried connecting only the Component cables? I can't think of any reason to have any others connected, except audio of course.

I have it connected with both composite and component-
My plasma cycles through 3 input modes- composite component and PC in
I tried disconnecting first component then composite when I discovered that I could get a component feed when the plasma was on composite IN - but composite was unhooked - that may be a way to "trick' my plasma so I can use stretch modes that are active in composite in only ~ not real sure about that
Is my plasma "overiding" the box?? manual says a 720 or 1080 feed via composite is always FULL - but I have no idea if the box is also doing something - the FULL is HUGE I can't even see the logos!

Did all of the above, followed SA manual still nothing appears. Called Time Warner and was
told they don't support it and could not give an answer.

That's because TWC NYC uses Passport software not SARA.

schex,

I have no idea what is going on, I'm just offering things to try and guessing. With my Hitachi CRT, I use Pass-Through with 480i and 1080i enabled and ONLY Component connected. SD/Analogs get passed as 480i and the TV stretch modes work fine. The HD's get passed as 1080i which already fills the screen with no stretch required. It sounds like something else isn't quite right if you get a signal on the Component In when only Composite is connected. This could be affecting the results even when Component is connected.

As I mentioned earlier, I think you need to go back to square one. Start with only Component and 480i making sure all TV stretch modes are off. By only connecting one set of cables and enabling only one format, you can better assess what your TV can do with different channels, SD/HD.

You also need to consider that Composite out of the 8300 is ALWAYS 4:3 AFAIK and that is most probably why it overfills the screen. Your TV is trying to do something with a 4:3 non-widescreen image.

That's because TWC NYC uses Passport software not SARA.There is a Passport thread and they may be able to help.

manual says a 720 or 1080 feed via composite is always FULL - but I have no idea if the box is also doing something - the FULL is HUGE I can't even see the logos!
You can't get 720 or 1080 via composite. Everything going through composite is downconverted to 480i only. Composite cable is typically yellow and a single cable.
Component cables, (aka Y/PR/PB not RGB) are usually red/blue/green. These can carry 1080i/720p/480p/480i depending on HOW you set up the STB in the "HDTV SETUP WIZARD" when the box is powered off. As suggested earlier, connect ONLY these (Y/PR/PB) cables right now, and set your resolution to ONLY put out 1080i in the WIZARD.
Once this established you can try other things, but for now, ONLY use the 3 COMPONENT cables and go into your HDTV SETUP WIZARD and choose 1080i only.
With your display being ED at about 824x480, when you feed a 1920x1080 signal, it is NOT scaling the image and you are seeing only the center portion of the larger image. Think about when you view a large picture on your PC like 1920x1080, and you view it full size and have to scroll around to see the complete image because your display is set to something like 800x600. Your Display sounds like it is doing something similar. Connecting with component only will determine this.

vegggas

It works!! :D
I finally pulled the box - unplugged it for a while then started over.
Everything works - the HD Zoom button now works and I can see that my box was locked in ZOOM 2 - :( it's awful! I set it up with pass thru, via component, enabled all formats and it looks great! I really enjoyed seeing it come in correctly last night.
Thanks for the help I was about to give up on either my plasma or this box :rolleyes:
Lessons -
1. New boxes and remotes have no # button or settings options - only an HD zoom button with 3 settings normal, zoom 1 ,zoom 2
2. Panny ED plasma locks into FULL when receiving a 720 or 1080 signal
3. Panny gets a composite picture even when the composite cables are disconnected
4. Panny AUTO mode only works with a 480i signal

Schex - Congrats! Glad to hear.

Lessons -
1. New boxes and remotes have no # button or settings options - only an HD zoom button with 3 settings normal, zoom 1 ,zoom 2

One appeared today that I hadn't seen previously --- "stretch". Don't remember what channel I was watching though.

You mean you were surfing when suddenly it went to - stretch?
Mine indicated on the screen (only) the 3 modes I mentioned when I push the HD ZOOM button and they worked the same on all channels

No, I was switching through the zoom modes at the time.

No, I was switching through the zoom modes at the time.

Just tried it again and there are now 4 options. Guess they just added the "stretch" option.

I'm having a lot of trouble with the recording functions on my 8300HD and I wanted to see if this is common or if I got a faulty box and should try to replace it. Here's what's up:

-- Series and individual programs that I've set up for recording often are not recorded, even when set to highest priority and tagged for manual deletion only.

-- Shows that I've tagged to save until manually deleted frequently disappear before I can watch them (granted that may be a couple of weeks, but there shouldn't be any time limit, should there?)

-- If I tag a series to save, say, "up to two" episodes until manually deleted, it will often save ALL episodes, quickly (in the case of daily broadcasts) filling up the entire hard drive.

Thanks for any advice, and sorry if this has been addressed before, I tried searching with no luck.

radosh,
You need to add your LOCATION to your PROFILE so others in your area can help.
With your location, you can then tell us what system you are on. Most of this stuff is dependent on location, system, software, and version...

vegggas

The lag between resolutions is based on your display, not the STB. Some displays resync rather quickly and some take a few seconds.
Also, using HDMI, the display controls the STB resolution output. If you have a non-standard native HD resolution, like 1024x768, the Display may request an incorrect resolution and timing from the STB. At that point, the STB may be confused and put out an undesired resolution. With Component outputs, the STB controls the resolution regardless of the Display, based on your settings in the STB setup wizard.

billatlakegeorge,
Some Sony RP units convert the non-native HDMI/DVI display signals back to analog for scaling and then display the image. Your best image would be a 720p 1-to-1 pixel mapped signal from ESPN or ABC, while other 1080 channels may suffer from D-A-A-D conversion. YMMV

DoubleDAZ,
When I do some houskeeping on my DVR's and clean out all my cancelled, scheduled shows, things seem to work smoothly. Right now, with all the cancelled shows and lineup changes, my unit is all over the place. It's around this time I start to see issues pop up. Once I clear everything out, it should be smooth sailing again. I think this is all related to the memory issues with the OS and virtual mapping of IPG, recorded data nad scheduled recording data. As more undefined data is left hanging for several weeks the memory doesn't get cleared correctly, until it reaches a point where something fails. This is just my opinion though and I still have no hard evidence or confirmation from SA.

vegggas

Just so I'm not confused here, with HDMI, the TV controls the scaling, but with Component, the STB does the scaling? I have my SA 8300 set to "pass-through" and I'd rather have my TV do the scaling (Sony KDFE42A10) than the STB-- so that would be a reason for me to switch from Component to HDMI, correct?

Just tried it again and there are now 4 options. Guess they just added the "stretch" option.

I believe that you only have the "Stretch" option on SD sources. So when you are tuned to a HD channel there are only 3, when tuned to a SD channel there will be 4.

Just so I'm not confused here, with HDMI, the TV controls the scaling, but with Component, the STB does the scaling? I have my SA 8300 set to "pass-through" and I'd rather have my TV do the scaling (Sony KDFE42A10) than the STB-- so that would be a reason for me to switch from Component to HDMI, correct?
No. With HDMI, the Display sets the resolution. The display sends out a request for the STB for particular resolutions that it can handle.
Scaling is done on either one or both devices, depending on content channel resolution. If the channel is 1080i, and the STB output is set to 1080i, there is no scaling done by the STB, but if the display is not 1080i native, it will scale the image to fit the display.
Worst case - Channel is 1080i, but output is set to 720P - STB scales the image. The 720P goes to the display, that is not exactly 1280x720, so it scales the image again to fit it's NATIVE resolution. You can flip the numbers around with 1080i instead of 720p, it doesn't matter. With fixed panel displays, there is almost always some scaling done to fit whatever signal is coming in to fit the NATIVE resolution of the display. Most channels are 1080i, and there are no 1080i native displays, except crt based ones, so all digital displays will scale.
Input type doesn't matter in terms of which device does the scaling; it depends on the resolution and format type. In some cases it will be just the display, in others it will be just the STB, and other times it will be the display and the STB
at the same time.

vegggas

No. With HDMI, the Display sets the resolution. The display sends out a request for the STB for particular resolutions that it can handle.
Scaling is done on either one or both devices, depending on content channel resolution. If the channel is 1080i, and the STB output is set to 1080i, there is no scaling done by the STB, but if the display is not 1080i native, it will scale the image to fit the display.
Worst case - Channel is 1080i, but output is set to 720P - STB scales the image. The 720P goes to the display, that is not exactly 1280x720, so it scales the image again to fit it's NATIVE resolution. You can flip the numbers around with 1080i instead of 720p, it doesn't matter. With fixed panel displays, there is almost always some scaling done to fit whatever signal is coming in to fit the NATIVE resolution of the display. Most channels are 1080i, and there are no 1080i native displays, except crt based ones, so all digital displays will scale.
Input type doesn't matter in terms of which device does the scaling; it depends on the resolution and format type. In some cases it will be just the display, in others it will be just the STB, and other times it will be the display and the STB
at the same time.

vegggas Possibly another reason why I didn't see any increase in quality with HDMI????

My Fujitsu is 1366x768. Every signal that comes in gets rescaled to its native resolution, 1366x768. Interestingly enough, even a 1366x768 input signal goes through the scaler (folks have tried using outboard scalers set to 1366x768 -- no bypass). But, it is a very good scaler.

So, if I use HDMI, the STB is going to scale everything and then the Fujitsu will rescale it, right? If so, this leaves little doubt in my mind why the HDMI PQ was no better than component.

I believe that you only have the "Stretch" option on SD sources. So when you are tuned to a HD channel there are only 3, when tuned to a SD channel there will be 4.

No, I checked it with both and the "stretch" option is there with HD also.

Possibly another reason why I didn't see any increase in quality with HDMI????

My Fujitsu is 1366x768. Every signal that comes in gets rescaled to its native resolution, 1366x768. Interestingly enough, even a 1366x768 input signal goes through the scaler (folks have tried using outboard scalers set to 1366x768 -- no bypass). But, it is a very good scaler.

So, if I use HDMI, the STB is going to scale everything and then the Fujitsu will rescale it, right? If so, this leaves little doubt in my mind why the HDMI PQ was no better than component.

My TV has a native 1280x720 resolution. Though having now tested the HDMI connection, the 480i SD channels look worse than they do with the component connection, and I'm still not entirely clear why. However 720p and 1080i sources look just as good as they did with component. That's with all resolutions enabled on the 8300, and the picture format set to 'pass-through.'

I'll check out my cox remote when I get home.... it didn't do that 2 days ago

Possibly another reason why I didn't see any increase in quality with HDMI????

My Fujitsu is 1366x768. Every signal that comes in gets rescaled to its native resolution, 1366x768. Interestingly enough, even a 1366x768 input signal goes through the scaler (folks have tried using outboard scalers set to 1366x768 -- no bypass). But, it is a very good scaler.

So, if I use HDMI, the STB is going to scale everything and then the Fujitsu will rescale it, right? If so, this leaves little doubt in my mind why the HDMI PQ was no better than component.

Yes, but scaling is one thing: A>D and D>A conversions are another! In the Fujitsu scenario the 8300HD is doing a D>A conversion to send component, then the Fujitsu needs do an A>D. Using HDMI avoids this conversion cycle. Now if the quality of the conversions is very good, then you might not see a difference.

On the other hand, some sets convert everything back to ANALOG (believe it or not) because their chassis are designed that way. The bottom line remains: there are so many variables, you can't tell till you try it.

radosh,
Your problem happened to me. The solution that I found was to delete all scheduled recordings, do a hard reboot, then re-schedule everything from the program guide. It seemed that the box got confused when lots of shows changed timeslots.

Also, you have a priority setting for recordings? What version of SARA do you have?

Yes, but scaling is one thing: A>D and D>A conversions are another! In the Fujitsu scenario the 8300HD is doing a D>A conversion to send component, then the Fujitsu needs do an A>D. Using HDMI avoids this conversion cycle. Now if the quality of the conversions is very good, then you might not see a difference.

On the other hand, some sets convert everything back to ANALOG (believe it or not) because their chassis are designed that way. The bottom line remains: there are so many variables, you can't tell till you try it. Good point!

[SIZE=1]Yes, but scaling is one thing: A>D and D>A conversions are another! In the Fujitsu scenario the 8300HD is doing a D>A conversion to send component, then the Fujitsu needs do an A>D. Using HDMI avoids this conversion cycle. Now if the quality of the conversions is very good, then you might not see a difference.
On the other hand, some sets convert everything back to ANALOG (believe it or not) because their chassis are designed that way. The bottom line remains: there are so many variables, you can't tell till you try it.

I also think the 8300 scales in the analog domain and outputs HDMI after a D-A conversion internally, UNLESS there is full HDCP compliance on all content, channels, outputs, equipment and all flags are set by the Cable Company. At this point though, I think the studios want to down convert the component outputs off the digital signal to 480p. My thinking is that the entire processing path is still in the analog domain on all outputs right now. For digital processing, the analog components would be derived (D-A) from the digital signal processing. I derived this after a lot of testing and comparisons between display and display types, and reading how the HDCP chipsets can typically only process a single domain and that the studios are after a complete digital path with analog only being 480p. Seeing that we are still getting 1080 out of the components, I think the processing is still in the analog domain.

Marketingprof, the use of HDMI does NOT mean everything is scaled from the STB. Neither HDMI or Component matter to the STB when it comes to scaling. That is determined by ORIGINAL SOURCE CHANNEL going to DESIRED OUTPUT RESOLUTION.
1) For a given STB - If Original Input Channel Resolution = Desired Output Channel Resolution, Than the STB will NOT scale the image.
1a) If Original Input Channel Resolution > or < Desired Output Channel Resolution, Than the STB MUST Scale the image.
2) For a given DISPLAY - If Original Input Signal Resolution = Display Native Resolution, Than there is no scaling on the Display side.
2a) If Original Input Signal Resolution > or < Display Native Resolution, Than the DISPLAY MUST Scale the image.

vegggas

I did the tests - my box does have stretch mode as well! but NOT on SD sources only when it is 720 or a 1080 signal
Another curious discovery was when I hit my (receiver) mute button I no longer get a flashing "mute" on my screen as I did with my non HD box :confused: weird

I just hooked up the HDMI from my SA 8300HD to my Philips 42PF9630a last night. I have 1080i, 720p, and 480p enabled as output from the 8300. To me, SD actually looks a bit better than component, even the analog ones. I noticed the text on the Weather Channel in particular was nearly HD quality.

Question though: I left the component connection hooked up, but it now only transmits audio and no picture to the TV. Is this right? I thought I had seen that some had used both HDMI and Component in order to drive two tv's. Doesn't look like that would work to me...

[SIZE=1]
1) For a given STB - If Original Input Channel Resolution = Desired Output Channel Resolution, Than the STB will NOT scale the image.
vegggas

So, if the 8300 is in passthrough mode and all output resolutions are enabled, then no scaling will ever be performed by the STB, right?

If so, then that is what I want. This way my Fujitsu will scale everything to its native resolution, i.e., 480i => 768p, 480p => 768p, 720p => 768p, and 1080i => 768p. The STB will scale nothing.

Of course, the reason I want this is that the Fujitsu will scale every incoming signal regardless of its resolution, even its native resolution, 768p.

Thanks!

IONTYRE - component connections only carry video not audio, did you try enabling 480i? When you say SD is better than component , do you mean SD viewed thru composite or S video cables?
M.P. Thats what I think too - enable everything via pass thru and let my plasma scale everything - isn't that what pass through does?

M.P. Thats what I think too - enable everything via pass thru and let my plasma scale everything - isn't that what pass through does?
I hope so.

schex,

I was originally using component cables on my AV1 input along with rca stereo cables to get my DVR signal to the TV. I have now added an HDMI cable to HDMI1 on my TV. I get my cable fine on the HDMI connection, but from the component connection (AV1) I only get audio. The component video is not giving me a picture anymore. It did before I hooked up the HDMI connection. It appears that having the HDMI connected disables the Component outputs on the SA 8300HD. Is this correct?

Iontyre,
The rule seems to be once the HDMI authorizes hi resolution out, the component are disabled. I believe the s-video and composite are still outputting low rez.

TerryB

Terry -yes I was wondering if he had those hooked up. I do know that component will carry all the signals even the 480i SD ones.
Iontyre - I think that is right HDMI disables the component. Your sound is coming from those rca cables the component has nothing to do with audio. Try to take advantage of the dolby digital out on your 8300 - it works great.
or does that HDMI cable also carry the audio for all channels? Not sure as I don't have HDMI on my plasma.

So, if the 8300 is in passthrough mode and all output resolutions are enabled, then no scaling will ever be performed by the STB, right?

If so, then that is what I want. This way my Fujitsu will scale everything to its native resolution, i.e., 480i => 768p, 480p => 768p, 720p => 768p, and 1080i => 768p. The STB will scale nothing.

Of course, the reason I want this is that the Fujitsu will scale every incoming signal regardless of its resolution, even its native resolution, 768p.

Thanks!
Yes, M.P., but be careful about the connections. Using component, you will pass through any signal the STB receives as long as it's enabled in the Setup Wizard. I would enable all formats and resolutions. With HDMI, some displays will NOT allow 480i, so the HDMI display link tells the STB to scale 480i to 480P first, then your display will scale again to native resolution.

vegggas

Yes, M.P., but be careful about the connections. Using component, you will pass through any signal the STB receives as long as it's enabled in the Setup Wizard. I would enable all formats and resolutions. With HDMI, some displays will NOT allow 480i, so the HDMI display link tells the STB to scale 480i to 480P first, then your display will scale again to native resolution.

vegggas

So if the display can handle 480i over HDMI, you think the 8300 will pass 480i through digitally? I briefly had a Sony upconverting DVD player connected to my Fujitsu P50 (40 series) which could output 480i digitally, and the Fujitsu accepted it just fine and allowed me to "wide zoom" 4:3 content instead of just blindly stretch it.

Would be a plus in my decision making if the 8300 could pass a comparable 480i signal over HDMI.

/steve

Is the firewire port on the 8300HD in the Comcast Danbury, CT area active. The CSR's today(Sat) did not know. On my 3250HD box, I had to have them enable the port before I got received the box. Thanks.

Hello,

I apologize if this has been covered before, but I could not find mention of it in the thread. I have about 5 old recordings on my Tivo that I wish to keep. It would be convenient if I could put them on the 8300HD box. So I fed the composite output from the Tivo to the "cable in" in the 8300HD and tuned the 8300HD to channel 3. So far, so good.

I played the Tivo and the 8300HD recorded the SD signal just fine. However, after about 5 minutes the 8300HD spontaneously rebooted. I assume this is because it wasn't getting a proper feed from the Cable Co.

Is there any way to prevent this spontaneous reboot long enough to record a 30min program?

Regards,

Ed.


Unfortun

Hello,

I apologize if this has been covered before, but I could not find mention of it in the thread. I have about 5 old recordings on my Tivo that I wish to keep. It would be convenient if I could put them on the 8300HD box. So I fed the composite output from the Tivo to the "cable in" in the 8300HD and tuned the 8300HD to channel 3. So far, so good.

I played the Tivo and the 8300HD recorded the SD signal just fine. However, after about 5 minutes the 8300HD spontaneously rebooted. I assume this is because it wasn't getting a proper feed from the Cable Co.

Is there any way to prevent this spontaneous reboot long enough to record a 30min program?
Regards,
Ed.
Unfortun
That's a new one to me... Won't even open the floodgates on opinions of removing Tivo programs and putting them on an 8300...
So you connected the Tivo's RF output to the 8300's RF input and tried to record the signal? For the 5 minutes you got, how did it look? That's a lot of A-D-A-D-A conversions of an SD signal...
As for suggestions, how did you initiate the recording? Did you just hit the record button? Hitting the record button references the IPG for the current time and channel and program length as well as Program info data. I just checked my DVR and saw that I can't set a manual recording anymore (a la VCR recording), but I haven't seen that ability since the original release of the 8000DVR in 2004. Without that option, I'm at a loss on how to attempt what you are doing. If you figure it out post back.
sorry
vegggas

OK, I found out where the manual recording area is located. That was really bothering me...
Press LIST to bring up the LIST of recorded programs.
Press the option for PREFERENCES (for me "B" button"
Choose "SCHEDULE A NEW MANUAL PROGRAM", which bypasses the IPG.
Set your recording time (ahead of current time) and then you will notice that your scheduled recording does not use any IPG data or program data.
Try that and see if it works.

vegggas

I just checked my DVR and saw that I can't set a manual recording anymore (a la VCR recording), but I haven't seen that ability since the original release of the 8000DVR in 2004.Are you saying your don't have the "Schedule a new Manual Recording" option when you hit List and then B to go into Preferences?
EDIT: I see you found this option while I was composing this. ;)

This whole issue confused me. How does the 8300 know what any channel is, much less channel 3, when there is no cable source attached? Or does it basically default to that frequency for input signals?

It seems to me that simply pressing Record might not do much since, like you said, it is looking for the buffer and the IPG to know what to record and for how long. I would think he'd need to schedule a manual recording for channel 3 (?)and then press play on the Tivo at that point or right after. Does the 8300 even display the time when not connected to cable?

He didn't say if anything was actually recorded for the 5 minutes and he didn't say if he tried more than once with the same results. Also, when he connected the Tivo, did he have it connected to cable or satellite and was he able to view that or a recording on channel 3? If he was, then a signal is getting through, so it would seem like something should work.

An update:

OK, it worked the next time I tried it. I'm not sure why it rebooted the first time, but perhaps if I try it a few more times I will be able to reproduce the effect.

So here is how it went:

1. Attach RF out from Tivo to cable in of 8300HD.

2. Tune 8300HD to Channel 03 with the remote. I now see the Tivo output on the TV (8300HD connected to HDTV through component cables).

3. Set a manual recording on the 8300HD for 7:07pm to 7:37pm (current time, 7:06).

4. When clock on 8300HD hits 7:07, hit play on the Tivo to activate the program I want to record.

5. Watch program while it records.

6. When finished "manual recording" shows up in my recorded program list.

7. My wife is happy that our 3yo has her favorite singalong videos on the new DVR. We may now Ebay the Tivo. =) As to picture quality. . .it's not much different than before (which wasn't that great) and the 3yo won't care.

Unfortunately, because I did not start the recording at XX:00 or XX:30, the 8300HD tried to pick up the initial 7 minutes out of the buffer. I will know better next time. Apparently for a manual recording, the 8300HD assumes user error and applies the buffer (on the front end only) if the guide data indicates that this is prudent. In fact, when viewing the recording on the 8300HD, the time bar at the bottom of the screen indicates that it is a one hour showing of which 32 minutes (30 minutes intentional, 2 minutes unintentional buffer) is "green" and 28 minutes is "red". The slot I recorded was to be part of a one hour Tom Brokaw special.

Thanks for the suggestions. I will update you again if I see the reboot thing again. It would be a strange coincidence if it didn't have something to do with me unhooking the CableCo feed, but perhaps it was just an anamoly.

Cheers,

Ed.

Very happy to see your post. It all sounded like it should have worked, so it's nice to know for sure.

Before you eBay the Tivo, be advised that almost all of us have lost recordings at one time or another on the 8300, many times due to operator error, and if the drive or unit ever fail, there is no way to recover the recordings.

An update
So here is how it went:
1. Attach composite out from Tivo to cable in of 8300HD.
Ed.
I hope you mean RF out of the Tivo to the RF in of the 8300. Composite is the yellow RCA jack for baseband video only.

vegggas.

Better to archive to a DVD or VHS.....

I just got an HDMI cable to connect my 8300HD to my Toshiba 62HM15 DLP TV. If I set the audio output of the 8300HD to "Dolby Digital" the audio signal is not sent through the HDMI cable - it is only sent out the optical port. That forces me to use my audio receiver at all times. I'm not a big fan of that. Am I missing something or is this really the case?

If I switch the audio output of the 8300HD to "HDMI" the audio signal is sent to the TV but the audio signal sent out the optical port of the 8300HD is not in surround sound.

So at the least I'd like for my 8300HD remote to control my audio receiver. So far I haven't been able to locate a remote code that will control my receiver. If anyone could help with that it would be greatly appreciated. My receiver is an Onkyo HT-R520 and Comcast is my cable provider.

Thanks!

Join the crowd, the 8300 remote will not control my Denon either, so I opted to buy a Harmony remote ($150 for an H688 at the time, the newer 880 canbe had for about the same price today).

Your read on the audio is correct, at least until they change the software. Use DD w/HDMI and use the Onkyo all the time or change the DD/HDMI setting as needed. The other option is to drop the HDMI and switch to Component.

FWIW, I used the be the same way about my Denon, but then I asked myself why I had the darned thing if I wasn't going to use it. My main reason for not using it prior to getting the H688 was because it was difficult for my wife to manipulate multiple remotes. The H688 has Activity buttons, so all she has to do is press the "Watch TV" button and everything comes on, switches inputs, etc., no fuss, no muss. :)

I just got an HDMI cable to connect my 8300HD to my Toshiba 62HM15 DLP TV. If I set the audio output of the 8300HD to "Dolby Digital" the audio signal is not sent through the HDMI cable - it is only sent out the optical port. That forces me to use my audio receiver at all times. I'm not a big fan of that. Am I missing something or is this really the case?

If I switch the audio output of the 8300HD to "HDMI" the audio signal is sent to the TV but the audio signal sent out the optical port of the 8300HD is not in surround sound.
<SNIP>!
Actually, the Dolby Digital signal IS sent through the HDMI cable. Your TV will DOES NOT ACCEPT Dolby Digital over HDMI, hence the silence. By choosing "HDMI" out, you are asking the TV to negotiate whatever signal it can accept, and in your TV's case, it's PCM stereo only.
If your TV accepted Dolby Digital (and downmixed to 2.0) via HDMI, you would hear audio over the TV speakers.

So at the least I'd like for my 8300HD remote to control my audio receiver. So far I haven't been able to locate a remote code that will control my receiver. If anyone could help with that it would be greatly appreciated. My receiver is an Onkyo HT-R520 and Comcast is my cable provider.

Thanks!
With a compatible code, you will get volume up/down and power, but you have to specify which audio to always control, wether it's the STB, TV, or receiver volume. Works ok with my Yamaha, even with a macro for the TV and Stereo. Did you get the little fold out paper with all the codes? Did you try all the codes by doing the search each code option?

vegggas

My Denon is not supported, I tried every code possible and even checked the SA site for any new codes. The 8400-D remote has a Denon code, but the 8400-B model doesn't and that is the case with a lot of receivers, so it wouldn't surprise me if the Onkyo is also not supported. But, if all he did was check the list of rhis model, then it is a good suggestion to try all the codes. I assume he followed the directions and already tried that. :)

This is SA's portal for the remote setups (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/consumers_new/Accessories/remotes.htm)
You join the explorers club, login, and look up your remote.
Hopefully you have the "D" remote, and not the "B" remote as Dave mentioned. You can even buy one if you want...

vegggas

Dave - you tried both the 4 digit Denon Receiver (4 codes) and Amplifier code (1) listed for the B remote?
v

I just got an HDMI cable to connect my 8300HD to my Toshiba 62HM15 DLP TV. If I set the audio output of the 8300HD to "Dolby Digital" the audio signal is not sent through the HDMI cable - it is only sent out the optical port. That forces me to use my audio receiver at all times. I'm not a big fan of that. Am I missing something or is this really the case?

If I switch the audio output of the 8300HD to "HDMI" the audio signal is sent to the TV but the audio signal sent out the optical port of the 8300HD is not in surround sound.



Thanks!

Use regular RCA analog cables to your TV. I think you can use them with HDMI.

Dave - you tried both the 4 digit Denon Receiver (4 codes) and Amplifier code (1) listed for the B remote?
vYeah, I tried everything. But I'm actually glad nothing worked because we absolutely love this Harmony 688. Push a button, TV/STB/RCVR come on and tuned to the right settings. Push another button, the STB goes off, the DVD comes on and TV/RCVR are again tuned to the right settings. It's worked so flawlessly for a year now that when I recently wanted to change a couple of actions, I had the re-read the directions to figure out how to do it all again. :)

Since both folks are from Greensboro, I would assume they are using the same software and, right now at least, one doesn't seem to be having any problem. Until we know for sure, that would seem to suggest a hardware problem of some sort that might be helped by a hard reboot to clear everything out and re-download the software. The 8300 seems prone to many of the old PC problems; fragmented memory, hosed cache, etc., and it never hurts to try a hard reboot (hold the power button while plugging the power cord in until Boot is displayed or the display starts cycling) to see if it helps at all.

Note: Maybe I should go back through the thread and make a list of all the things a hard reboot has helped resolve. I know it sounds a lot like a catch-all solution, but no harm, no foul, right? :)

I'm also having the same problem with Cox in Fairfax, VA. Don't know what version of the software I have but will check it at home tonight.

I have Home Server Edition 1.4 / SARA ver. 1.87.16.1 and whenever I try to copy to VCR from a recorded show I get a very poor resolution on both the Component Video (Video 2 Out) and S-Video outputs. I have monitored the video through the VCR as well as directly from STB to TV. It is definitely much lower quality than if I just play the recording and monitor the same outputs. Looks like some attempt at copy protection but I've seen other posts which indicate that Copy To VCR is working perfectly.

Does anyone have a clue what I'm doing wrong or is it just another example of differences by location?

That is a problem specific to the FW version you're box has. We have the same 1.87.16.1 here in San Diego and have had problems with "Copy to VCR" since that FW was load

OK, I'm sure the answer is in here somewhere, but I need quick help, Wife is going to kill me!
I was messing with the TV, & SA8300. I changed the Display Format to Auto HDMI/DVI and I lost the picture completely. Anyway to set it back quickly?
I found this at the beginning of this thread, but it's not really helping.
******************
Display Format Summary. Press the Settings button twice to get to the General Settings. Then scroll up to Set: Picture Format.
Fixed - Displays all content at whatever resolution you selected, based on what you selected in the wizard. You force the output to a single output and the box scales to that input. Easily changed in the settings menu of the box.

Pass Through - Passes the input signal through to the output with no change, unless you disable certain resolutions. For example 480i in to 480i out, 480P in to 480P out, 1080i in to 1080i out, 720P in to 720P out. If you disable 720P, 720P in will go to 1080i out.

Auto HDMI/DVI - If you are using the HDMI port, you will see this option instead of the Pass Through option. Resolution is automatically formatted to the scan rate supported by the TV.

UpConvert 1 - All 480i and 480P signals get upconverted to 480P. All 720P and 1080i signals get upconverted to 1080i.

UpConvert 2 - All 480i and 480P signals get upconverted to 480P. All 720P and 1080i signals get converted to 720P.

Nevermind, I got it. Couple of reboots, and standard cables got me back up.

I have seen the same problem with "Copy to VCR" on my standard definition SA 8300.

Closed captioning - what am I doing wrong? For the life of me I can't get CC on. I fooled with the settings menu the "off/on/on with mute" option (tried all three), I even messed with some of the preferences (cc1, cc2) by no dice.

Any help would be appreciated.

Make sure the On setting is being accepted. I was tuned to a non-CC channel and couldn't get the setting to take. I switched to some other channels and eventually it stayed On.

That is a problem specific to the FW version you're box has. We have the same 1.87.16.1 here in San Diego and have had problems with "Copy to VCR" since that FW was load

Thank you, DEIFan, for the information. For the past several days, I've been going crazying trying to figure out why recordings to my Panasonic DMR-EH50 DVD/Hard Drive recorder would of such poor quality. I have been using the S-Video out on my SA 8300HD to output to the Panasonic. I was thinking it had something to do with the progressive scan/interlaced settings because the recordings on the Panasonic (regardless of whether on the hard drive or the DVD) seemed almost like they were missing some of the horizontal lines. Now I know that it a problem with the firmware of the SA 8300HD. I sure hope they fix the firmware soon. I bought the Panasonic because I fill up my SA 8300HD very quickly and want the ability to archive programs/movies for watching not only later but also on a different TV.

Thanks again for the information.

Jay

Anyone have any issue with red push froom the 8300? I have to adjust my tint for component output nearly all the way green to compensate. this is not the same issue as the pink issue. the box seems to push red.

Anyone have any issue with red push froom the 8300? I have to adjust my tint for component output nearly all the way green to compensate. this is not the same issue as the pink issue. the box seems to push red. Are you sure you don't have a bad component cable or a poor component cable connection? That's what it sounds like to me. Either that or the box is defective.

Yes, by all means check the connections/cables. You should be able to swap the individual cables to see if one is bad, just remember to connect them to the same connector.

Any chance your cables are connected wrong?

Thanks. I checked the cables and they are fine. They are Time Warner's ribbon cable. The funny thing is I get a great picture with the tint adjusted to +37. Seems there some red push going on from the SA8300. I have the cable guy coming Wed. I have him take a peek. I am sure its the box

I am Having a problem with the HDMI on my SA 8300 HD DVR. I am using a harmony 680 and when I watch TV the TV is all snow. I have to press the # (aspect change) for the picture to show. Is very frustrating please help!

I think the snow is the hdcp handshaking. I get that on my set when I first turn it on or when I change from an analog to a digital HD channel. But if I wait about 5 seconds the picture usually comes back. Sometimes a bit longer, and once or twice I've had to alternate channel back and forth once to get it to sync.

Wow, Adelphia in Cleveland is much nicer to you guys than it is here. I checked my SARA version a couple of days ago and it was only 1.85.8.3!

So I guess I should feel good with 1.87.23.1 from Comcrap. I don't. I have several of the 8300hd's myself and comcrap will not allow me to PAY for the signal to make the work. It HAS to be from THEIR stock! Pretty much sux ....they sit here doing nothing now. what a waste! Anyone know how to turn these on to at least receive basic tv?

So I guess I should feel good with 1.87.23.1 from Comcrap. I don't. I have several of the 8300hd's myself and comcrap will not allow me to PAY for the signal to make the work. It HAS to be from THEIR stock! Pretty much sux ....they sit here doing nothing now. what a waste! Anyone know how to turn these on to at least receive basic tv?
Simple - LEASE one from the cable company. Illegal boxes will not work.

vegggas

I am Having a problem with the HDMI on my SA 8300 HD DVR. I am using a harmony 680 and when I watch TV the TV is all snow. I have to press the # (aspect change) for the picture to show. Is very frustrating please help!


If oyu're a cablevision user there was a software push last week that is the cause, I've been assured that they're working on a solution - if it's unbearable you can temporarily switch back to component. There are multiple threades on the Yahoo Cablevision forum

So I guess I should feel good with 1.87.23.1 from Comcrap. I don't. I have several of the 8300hd's myself and comcrap will not allow me to PAY for the signal to make the work. It HAS to be from THEIR stock! Pretty much sux ....they sit here doing nothing now. what a waste! Anyone know how to turn these on to at least receive basic tv?
And you blame Comcast for that? They run a business and it's their choice not to support uints they have no control over. Just where did you get them from anyway? It might have been a good idea to check with Comcast BEFORE you got them to make sure you could use them on THEIR system.

So I guess I should feel good with 1.87.23.1 from Comcrap. I don't. I have several of the 8300hd's myself and comcrap will not allow me to PAY for the signal to make the work. It HAS to be from THEIR stock! Pretty much sux ....they sit here doing nothing now. what a waste! Anyone know how to turn these on to at least receive basic tv?

Great first post! You sound like a troll!

Hi, it's my first post, be nice to me!

Just got a SA8300 box, to replace my non-dvr SA unit which had major pixellation issues on HD channels. The only box my cable co had in stock (cablevison-nj) was the dVR 8300, so I picked it up.

I plugged it in yesterday, after a few seconds of startup info on the LED display, it continuously cycles numbers from zero to 850, and keeps going. It's been doing this for 18 hours now. Power on doesn't work, I called the cable co yesterday, they say this is normal, wait til it stops.

Had the same problem when mine was installed earlier this week. Cableco said it meant the signal was too low. Removing one level of splitter solved the problem, though I ultimately had to add a 15dB signal amplifier before my large splitter (there's one splitter when it comes into the house to feed the cable modem, and then an 8-way splitter after that since the whole house is wired -- signal strength on the output side of the 8-way was too low as measured by the cable tech).

TWC in Greensboro has updated SARA on the 8300. We now have the "New First Run Episodes" option for recording all episodes

TWC in Greensboro has updated SARA on the 8300. We now have the "New First Run Episodes" option for recording all episodes
Telemike, can you check and let me know what version of SARA you now have. I still have 1.87.16.109 and only have the option to record one episode or all episodes. Thanks.

Question: When I stop playing something I've recorded and want to save it, there is no option for this, only 'erase', 'play from beginning', etc. Any suggestions?

SARA 1.87.16.a109

I have also noticed the picture quality problem using the COPY TO VCR function. It looks like half the san lines are missing; an interlacing problem.

The PQ looks fine thru the jacks on live tv or playback from HDD. Only when using the Copy To VCR does it look like crap.

SARA 1.87.16.a109

I have also noticed the picture quality problem using the COPY TO VCR function. It looks like half the san lines are missing; an interlacing problem.

The PQ looks fine thru the jacks on live tv or playback from HDD. Only when using the Copy To VCR does it look like crap.

Thanks for the update. That's the same version of SARA I have and your description of the "Copy to VCR" pq is exactly what I've been seeing since November.

How did you access the "First Run" option when you try to record a show? I don't see that option anywhere.

Thanks.

Telemike, can you check and let me know what version of SARA you now have. I still have 1.87.16.109 and only have the option to record one episode or all episodes. Thanks.It doesn't matter what version you have, the option has been in the software since at least version 1.85.x.x. What has been missing is the First Run flag in the IPG database and it's only a coincidence that a new software version was loaded when the IPG database was updated to include the First Run flag. If the Flag is not there, the option simply doesn't show up. You may also now see a new HD indicator in the IPG data for those channels who use it (INHD/INHD2 being 2 that do not).