SA 8300 HD Tips & Tricks -- SARA [Text View] - Page 8

vegggas

01-02-06, 04:59 PM

I will ask about the copy to VCR function quality at CES when I talk to SA. My thoughts are that the particular function is doing what it is supposed to do. This is based on the rollout of copy protection, and archiving of controlled content. The ability to record the live stream cleaner appears to be a workaround for right now.

My Opinion and not Fact - The video chipset in the STB works in either the analog or digital domain, and not both at the same time.
While in the analog domain, all incoming signals are converted to analog and the digital outputs are derived from the already converted analog signals. In this case, the HDMI or DVI out would never look much better than the component (dependent on display), and content protection is not fully supported. The Copy to VCR function is unprotected at this point and sent out at full SD resolution without any protection. Digital out signals are also not very well protected.
When the STB is upgraded to work in the Digital domain, all content is derived from the digital signals and fully protected. DVI and HDMI should now look better than component (dependent on display), and all the analog signals are generated from the digital domain signals with flags intact. Copy to VCR will be derived from the digital signal, and the flag will be employed to downres the signal to VCR signal levels. This downres'd signal will be of analog VCR quality (As the NAME implies and NOT DVD Quality) and NOT good enough to make multigenerational copies. The SA documentation even explicitly states that DVD recorders are NOT supported and that only VCR's are allowed for archiving.
I believe this was the intention all along.

vegggas

rick1matthews

01-02-06, 05:27 PM

For me it is actually much worse with SD recordings. The description of "half the scan lines" really hits home with what I see. With HD it appears to go from 720p/1080i to maybe 480i (at best, and I am being generous here) and with SD it seems to go from 480i to about 240i. I remember my first VCR recorded at about 240i and it looks better than this. (How do I know? I stuck in one of my old recordings and looked at it. Yes, I know, what a packrat. :) )

Coupled with what seems to be loss of vertical resolution (especially jaggies on diagonal edges) is also obvious flicker on horizontal lines and edges. I see it most often when there is computer generated text superimposed on the image. If there is a horizontal band, the top and bottom of the band show quite noticeable flicker.

The above is what makes me suspect that the two fields (half-frames) of interlaced SD video have been reversed. This the line order would be 2-1-4-3-6-5-8-7, instead of the proper 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8. If this were the case, then we would certainly see jaggies like we see. It would destroy the anti-aliasing on text and horizontal edges, creating much more obvious flicker.

One nice thing about this theory is that this is just the kind of mistake that could be caused by a firmware error.

When I look close, there seems to be a high-speed vertical jitter of about one pixel or line. I am not sure how well that meshes with my notion of a field 1 and field 2 being reversed.

Belcherwm

01-02-06, 07:00 PM

Whatever it is, I wouldn't consider it VCR "quality". If they were trying to down res for copy protection then how come we get a decent signal with "direct" copying?

davehancock

01-02-06, 07:07 PM

I buy Rick's comment:
The above is what makes me suspect that the two fields (half-frames) of interlaced SD video have been reversed. This the line order would be 2-1-4-3-6-5-8-7, instead of the proper 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8. If this were the case, then we would certainly see jaggies like we see. It would destroy the anti-aliasing on text and horizontal edges, creating much more obvious flicker.
SA has a track record of poorly exicuted software.

DoubleDAZ

01-02-06, 08:21 PM

I suspect it's a combination of both explanations. I believe it was on the 8000 that the HD and SD outputs could not be used at the same time, except for in Copy To VCR mode (maybe?). They fixed this with the 8300, but obviously not totally. :)

umenon

01-02-06, 11:47 PM

TWC in Greensboro has updated SARA on the 8300. We now have the "New First Run Episodes" option for recording all episodes

I am w/ Comcast in Charleston South Carolina - "New First Run Episodes" option has been there for some time now ... but has NEVER EVER worked. The box simply ignores that flag.

SA should fire their firmware development department for shoddy performance in addressing a laundry list of issues that have been discussed here and elsewhere.

Max

vegggas

01-03-06, 02:03 AM

I am w/ Comcast in Charleston South Carolina - "New First Run Episodes" option has been there for some time now ... but has NEVER EVER worked. The box simply ignores that flag.

SA should fire their firmware development department for shoddy performance in addressing a laundry list of issues that have been discussed here and elsewhere.

Max
It's not clear if you are an employee or customer...
First run has been working flawlessly for me and almost all other users around the Country on different cable systems and different cable companies. All new show programming I do is with the First Run flag enabled and it always records the new episodes, while not recording the repeats.
If you are with Comcast (employee???), then you should look inward to your local company and to your IPG software. If you are a customer, then what are you trying to record? - New shows, or reruns of past shows, which, of course, are not first run. i.e - episodes of Gilligan's Island will NOT be flagged as First Run, but NEW episodes of LOST will be flagged as First Run.

vegggas

exieramos

01-03-06, 02:52 AM

Veggas,

Thanks for bringing this (Copy to VCR resolution degrading) to SA's attention at CES. We've had this problem in San Diego since our FW update to 1.87.16.1 in March '05. I have since complained to COX-San Diego and the CSR said she would send a tech note to the "appropriate" people as she said she had not heard of the issue (this was back in March '05). Since COX has not upgraded our FW since, then my guess is that COX-San Diego customer's have not complained enough about the problem to them (because maybe most COX-SD customers do not use the feature) or SA has not fixed the problem in their FW (because none of the MSO's that implemented 1.87.16.1 complained that their customer's were complaining because THIER customer's didn't use the feature).

Now that more complaints are showing up on this forum and with Veggas on our side, the issue will have more exposure to SA to maybe do something about it. The issue was apparently not addressed in 1.87.19.1 as Dave D. confirms. BTW Dave D., you had also previously confirmed the issue for me when Cox-Phoenix was also running 1.87.16.1 back in March '05. See page 19 of this thread. :)

vegggas

01-03-06, 03:10 AM

My concern is that this is intentional and supposed to be typical 240 line VCR resolution to appease content makers, or whoever it is that only wants low quality copies made.

vegggas

telemike

01-03-06, 06:20 AM

240i is terrible. It looks worse than VCR quality. Isn't 480i down-rezzed from 1080i?

DoubleDAZ

01-03-06, 08:35 AM

From what I saw during my test, this does not appear to be a simple 240i resolution problem. I don't believe that would account for what looks tome like every other scan line being off kilter.

PS. exieramos, I mistyped, it's still the 1.87.16.1 version.

foghorn2

01-03-06, 09:17 AM

My concern is that this is intentional and supposed to be typical 240 line VCR resolution to appease content makers, or whoever it is that only wants low quality copies made.

vegggas

My concern is that this maybe is intentional and prevents people to pipe the signal to another TV, so that they can peddle the MR stuff and charge more bucks or peddle the new DVDR-MR version!

MarketingProf

01-03-06, 10:07 AM

From what I saw during my test, this does not appear to be a simple 240i resolution problem. I don't believe that would account for what looks tome like every other scan line being off kilter.

I agree. It is worse than just 240i. For me it is unwatchable.

fairtomiddlin

01-03-06, 02:14 PM

I will ask about the copy to VCR function quality at CES when I talk to SA.
I guess we'd be asking too much if we also requested the ability to output widescreen via the s-video when using the Copy to VCR function. :)

foghorn2

01-03-06, 03:45 PM

I guess we'd be asking too much if we also requested the ability to output widescreen via the s-video when using the Copy to VCR function. :)

Yes! :)
but I don't think that is possible with s-vid.

davehancock

01-03-06, 03:49 PM

Yes! :)
but I don't think that is possible with s-vid.

Sure it's possible (it's just a matter of mapping the pixels) but highly unlikely that they would do it. There just isn't the demand for it from their customers (the cable companies).

umenon

01-03-06, 05:11 PM

It's not clear if you are an employee or customer...
First run has been working flawlessly for me and almost all other users around the Country on different cable systems and different cable companies. All new show programming I do is with the First Run flag enabled and it always records the new episodes, while not recording the repeats.
If you are with Comcast (employee???), then you should look inward to your local company and to your IPG software. If you are a customer, then what are you trying to record? - New shows, or reruns of past shows, which, of course, are not first run. i.e - episodes of Gilligan's Island will NOT be flagged as First Run, but NEW episodes of LOST will be flagged as First Run.

I am a customer of COMCAST. Since we never watch commercial-rich channels (aka network channels), my experience has been only with PBS, Discovery HD etc. I tried recording FRONTLINE (on PBS) using this flag. But it kept recording identical episodes at different time slots. For that matter, the first recorded Frontline show was a brand new show.

I did not want to use "same time slot" option because Frontline does not always start at the same time every time its broadcast.

So as far as I am concerned, the "First run episodes only" does not work.

DoubleDAZ

01-03-06, 10:21 PM

Well, it does if the program is flagged multiple times as New in the IPG. If you look at TitanTV, for example, multiple episodes of BG, SG1 and SG:Atlantis are all flagged as New even though we all know the second and subsequent broadcasts are reruns. If the IPG is the same as TitanTV, then the 8300 will record the programs 2 or more times. While this may not help you with your problem, the option does work, but is only as good as the data passed to it.

umenon

01-04-06, 02:23 PM

davehancock

01-04-06, 03:43 PM

Shame on you SA for taking unfair liberties with the monopolistic situation you built.

Yes, but does the shame belong with SA, or the cable companies who specify what they want and purchase virtually all of the equipment that SA sells. The issues that you have are not with the coding, but rather with the definition of the software to be built - and Comcast, TW, etc. have THE major roll in that!

vegggas

01-04-06, 06:31 PM

Well, most programs have a description (when you press INFO). We know that this INFO is saved with the recording. The system could compare the two and avoid making multiple identical recordings. Duh ! Granted this would not help if there is no INFO text.. but when there is ... it would more reliable than the flag it looks for.

I say this again, SA should fire the folks who code the logic into their boxes. As a programmer myself, I regret to say that the interface features that SA has added to their boxes in the last five years is laughable !!! In the late 1990s I used to own a REPLAYTV ... It was several generations ahead of the SA box I own in 2006 ... in terms of user interface.

Please don't respond by pointing out the HDMI / SATA etc features. Those are fine and dandy ... but if the unit cannot do a simple thing allow guide customization to not show certain channels .. in my opinion, it has failed.

Shame on you SA for taking unfair liberties with the monopolistic situation you built.
Max

Funny you should mention that (Replay) I own several Replay's, including the original Pasonic Showstopper, which I still use. Guess what - It does the same thing with multiple repeats of the same show as you describe. I use it to record Family Guy, since it's in SD, but it keeps getting all the repeated same episodes too.
The flag is a bit in the stream that notifies that the program is either New or a Repeat. The keyword is repeat, which in broadcasting means a program which has aired on a previous date, last season, or earlier in the season. If a channel had a NEW show all day long, it would be NEW all day long, otherwise all programming for the West Coast would be repeats.

In your other absurd scenario, comparing info data, it would NEVER record any program, if there was no program description available, since they would all be the same - i.e no info.

You can always just press the guide button, highlight the show you want, and press record to record that ONE episode. If you like, you can press the date button to switch to the exact time the next day and record it again, and again, and again up to week.
Pretty soon though, DVR's will not matter. The industry is moving to pushed content, that you call up whenever you want it.

We will await your announcement of your own built and programmed DVR, while you give up using the ones currently available.

vegggas

Lampei

01-04-06, 07:16 PM

Actually, TiVo will record new shows by comparing the guide data. It will look for the flag first, if not there, it checks the guide data, if no guide data, it will record that episode (as a "just in case it is new"), thus still recording duplicate shows without guide data, but doing a decidedly better job in checking which shows are repeats. It's all about the database that the DVR has stored in it (TiVo tracks a great deal of information about the shows you've watched, the ones saved, and the upcoming shows). If SA can improve their data management on their DVRs, it would solve many of the issues people complain about.

umenon

01-04-06, 07:52 PM

It will look for the flag first, if not there, it checks the guide data, if no guide data, it will record that episode (as a "just in case it is new"), thus still recording duplicate shows without guide data

Lampei ... thanks for an intuitively thought out response to a not so absurd suggestion. Thats exactly what sensible logic would dictate ...

If (flag exists) then record only if "new" is set
else
If (info does not exists) then record show anyways
else
if (info is not identical to one of previous recordings) then record show
else
do not record

ReplayTV is old technology and can be excused for not using the above logic while thankfully having an otherwise very logical user interface.

Comcast, TW, etc. have THE major roll in that!
Wrong. SA puts the core features and sells the boxes to TW, Comcast etc. Which is why my current SA box from Comcast is retarded in the very same areas as my SA box from TW at the previous house.

Max

vegggas

01-04-06, 08:14 PM

Cable uses two way "Interactive Programming Guides" instead of Tivo's one way styled push technology. There is not enough room for the guide data to be stored on all the STB's, where a majority of them are non-DVR based. The flag lookup is the only option with this format at this time.

If (flag exists) then record only if "new" is set
else
If (info does not exists) then record show anyways
else
if (info is not identical to one of previous recordings) then record show
else
do not record
Program - "Today's Politics"
Info - "Todays political news headlines"
Showtimes - 8:00, 11:00AM, 1:00, 4:00 8:00 11:00PM
Same program, new every day, but repeated throughout the day. Same info for every episode.
Since all flags are always "New", and info is always the same, the program would never record a second show - ever???

vegggas

Lampei

01-04-06, 08:28 PM

(Qualifier: I'm not trying to get in the middle here, and do not favor either side, but just trying to show what has been done by other companies)

For that one, TiVo would definitely record all episodes, and would duplicate all of them. It does this with the daily show (when there is not guide data). It records all episodes when the guide data is "a news show with a hilarious slant" (or something like that). Nothing's perfect though, but if it could store the guide data on the box (it is only text so wouldn't take up that much space as it would only be storing shows that you are/have/will be watching for comparison purposes), it would remove a great deal of the duplication.

davehancock

01-04-06, 08:46 PM

Wrong. SA puts the core features and sells the boxes to TW, Comcast etc. Which is why my current SA box from Comcast is retarded in the very same areas as my SA box from TW at the previous house.

Max

And you don't think that SA responds to what their few customers want? The truth is that the features that you personally want are not necessarily the ones that cable wants you to have (like the ability to only "see" a few channels on the guide). Think about it.

DoubleDAZ

01-04-06, 09:43 PM

If SA only had to program for one basic box like Tivo does,
and if SA controlled the IPG data,
and if SA charged $999 (now $699 minus rebates) for the box,
and if SA charged $12.95 for the service,
then you'd have a Tivo.

But that's not how it works, so GET OVER IT already!

BTW, this is a Tips & Tricks thread, not an SA bashing thread, and most of this has already been discussed in this thread. If you don't like the 8300 or SA or whatever, why post here? We all know what can be done given certain specifications, but the way cableco's are setup dictates what software SA provides and, unlike Tivo, much of it has to work with the lowest common denominator and that is NOT the 8300.

I've done my share of programming too and none of this is rocket science, it's simply a matter of what has been asked for and what has been delivered, and what is legal. Anyone who thinks programmers at SA or anywhere else can't design a system similar to Tivo or ReplayTV or whatever is just plain nuts. As I've said many a time before, many of these Tivo features are copyrighted and can't be designed into any other software until agreements are signed. Some of this has happened and more Tivo-like features are coming in the next version of SARA, but just because you and I or anyone else can code it, doesn't mean we can legally sell it. :)

The other side of this coin is that if you go to the website for the IPG (mostly Gemstar/TVGuide), you will note that they sell an advanced IPG with many of the features you are looking for. I don't know specifically how the SARA software interfaces with the IPG, but my guess is that many of these features are simply not possible with the current IPG setup and most features will not be available until cableco's spring for the advanced IPGs.

Charlie_Phogg

01-04-06, 09:52 PM

And you don't think that SA responds to what their few customers want? The truth is that the features that you personally want are not necessarily the ones that cable wants you to have (like the ability to only "see" a few channels on the guide). Think about it.

Why not? The satellite providers offer customizable favorites lists even on their base tuners. Their DVR's also don't dump you out to live programming when the recording ends while you are in the middle of watching it leaving the only way to get back to where you were is to slog along at FF speed of 32X when other DVD's offer up to 300X. There are many UI issues that these units that never seem to be addressed. Maybe this is the way the cable companies want things but it is definitely not what the end user wants and they will eventually be the cause of me dropping cable and returning to satellite service.

umenon

01-04-06, 10:05 PM

If I sounded like the party pooper, my sincere apologies. While my initial intention was to post a retort to the post on "First run episodes" "feature?" ... I did get wrapped around that already worn-out axle.

Will not ask for more.

"Consumer is King ... a King never bargains"

Max

DoubleDAZ

01-04-06, 10:08 PM

Their DVR's also don't dump you out to live programming when the recording ends while you are in the middle of watching it leaving the only way to get back to where you were is to slog along at FF speed of 32X when other DVD's offer up to 300X.Now I know you read this thread and you should know that OS 1.5, when released, will fix this and include a FF128. It's already availabl on some systems in SARA 1.88.x.x, but not widely relased waiting for the new OS rewrite. The first issue was definitely copyrighted feature and agreements to use it were just reached late last year. I guess you'd rather they violated the law than honor Tivo's copyright. :)
There are many UI issues that these units that never seem to be addressed. Maybe this is the way the cable companies want things but it is definitely not what the end user wants and they will eventually be the cause of me dropping cable and returning to satellite service.And that's fine, but I think you and others simply don't want to accept the extent of the copyright problem or other limitations imposed by the multitude of hardware platforms in use by cableco's. I'm still not sure why you and others switched in the first place other than the ridiculously high cost of the HD Tivo at $999. :)

DoubleDAZ

01-04-06, 10:25 PM

Max, asking is one thing, simply bashing SA is something totally different. I realize this is a long thread, but all one has to do is read back a few pages (or search) to see that some of these things have been covered fairly recently and some are due in the next software release. If reading back takes too long, then asking if such and such has been covered and asking for the current status would have, IMHO, been a better way of addressing the issues vs the negative bashing.

Having been a programmer, it also aggravates me to no end when someone chastises a fellow programmer without knowing what has been asked for/delivered or what is caught in the copyright trap. We welcome all suggestions for improvements, but not the attacks, that was my only real point. We all wish the 8300 were more Tivo-like, but getting there is a slow process. The door has been opened and hopefully more functionality will come. Unfortunately, that will not be soon enough for many, me included depending on what happens with HD lil and the new rental philosophy for DirecTV's DVR, though I don't know that it works much better than the 8300 and is certainly no Tivo either. :(

I hope you will continue to keep posting in spite of the misunderstanding, all suggestions can only make things better for everyone. Just leave the door open for us to offer reasons for why things are the way they are before bashing fellow programmers. :)

umenon

01-05-06, 12:05 AM

vegggas

01-05-06, 02:33 AM

One quick note - This excuse of "copyrighted by TIVO" has been used by SA for a long time ... for features that dont work as promised (in other words working as promised would infringe on patents :-))

Here is TIVO's recent claim ...
http://*******.com/9a32b (http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220050246738%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20050246738&RS=DN/20050246738)

And here is what Microsoft tried to claim !!!!!:-)!!!!!!!
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/29130
You should do a search. We discussed the tivo patents in great detail long time ago. Specific tivo functions were described, actual patent numbers, pages, links, statements and licensing infringements were also shown to explain WHY certain features would not be available until the specific patents expire.
The above links are for NEW portable multimedia devices, and a fallacy claim by MS for 1 & 0 with absolutely no bearing on the DVR market of today.
This is not a tivo thread. If you want tivo, go buy a tivo and join the tivo community and complain about it's many problems there.

vegggas

telemike

01-05-06, 06:44 AM

All I know is that my Wife LOVES the 8300. She can esily program her recordings and watch them easily. What more can you ask for than a happy wife using a DVR?

Paul Simoneau

01-05-06, 09:25 AM

Telemike : I wish it was that easy for me! Well, when my wife and I had DirecTV with TiVo, she fell in love with it. She picked it up easily, and was 100% comfortable in using it. Moving to Adelphia + 8300 + SARA, she curses it (and me sometimes!) on a fairly regular basis. She got spoiled by the TiVo.

I hope this week's CES serves to clear things up in regards to alternative Cable Card DVRs (TiVo or otherwise). My patience with this box is becoming short...

telemike

01-05-06, 09:47 AM

Well we've never used Tivo. The SA8000HD was the first DVR we had and she finds it easy to use. That's all that matters. I may need the external SATA drive someday though.

telemike

01-05-06, 09:49 AM

I hope we can get the COPY TO VCR problem figured out. Whether it is intentional or a bad firmware issue.

MarketingProf

01-05-06, 09:51 AM

All I know is that my Wife LOVES the 8300. She can esily program her recordings and watch them easily. What more can you ask for than a happy wife using a DVR?A happy wife not using a DVR? :D :D :D

DoubleDAZ

01-05-06, 11:12 AM

I truly wish there was something that could be said to pacify former Tivo users, but there isn't. It's kind of like owning a 6-speed Corvette and then exchanging it for a 3-speed Miata, you will never be happy again. Unless ALL patents expire quickly, you will never be happy with the 8300 and no amount of discussion regarding patents, prices, etc., will help.

The former Tivo users who now have the DirecTV DVRs are not happy either and my only question that remains is why any of you switched in the first place? Most often it was the high cost of the HD Tivo and the bottomline has been that you get what you pay for. You simply can't expect a $15/mo cable DVR to perform as a $1000+$12.95/mo Tivo, with or without the patents in place.

The main problem IMHO is that you all continue to try to make the 8300 do things the way you did them on Tivo instead of the way they are designed on the 8300 and cable IPGs. If you'd spend as much time concentrating on what you can do vs what you can't, you might be a little happier until you once again switch services looking for whatever it is you are looking for. With a few exceptions, the only people unhappy with their 8300 are formerTivo users. The majority of us are content being able to record 2 HD programs and time-shift TV. You might consider moving to a part of the country where cableco's are getting Tivo's, then maybe you'll finally be happy, but I sincerely doubt it. :)

trpltongue

01-05-06, 11:40 AM

Paul Simoneau

01-05-06, 01:30 PM

I agree that it's just about pointless to dredge up the TiVo<->8300 discussion/argument/flamewar. Both hardware platforms have plusses and minuses, and the same goes for the software.

I don't think the argument holds water that it's primarily former-TiVo devotees bitching about the 8300, though. I'd like to think that it's more of an awareness issue for all users. The difference between awareness of what's out there, and what you've got in hand. You could make a converse argument that 8300 users who are happy with it are happy because they've never used a TiVo before. You can make points in either direction of the argument.

I have to use the 8300 because I have no line of sight for either satellite provider, OTA reception is sketch in my location, and the town I just moved to has its sole cable licensee (read:monopoly) as Adelphia. I can either choose to grab via ********** everything I'd ever want to watch (and risk those consequences), or go with the 8300. My only real option is the 8300, so here I am.

My only hopes in asking/bitching here about certain features/bugs of this box are two-fold : 1) Find out that I'm using the box incorrectly, and correct myself, or 2) hope SA and Adelphia read this forum and fix any bugs that are reported here (however unlikely that is).

Being a programmer myself doesn't help, since the bugs that I see in normal every day usage only serve to irritate me even more...

umenon

01-05-06, 04:25 PM

Perhaps there is light at the end of that tunnel ... (news out a few hours ago) ...

LAS VEGAS (Reuters) - Panasonic Corp. of North America, the main U.S. business of Japan's Matsushita Electric Co. Ltd. , said on Wednesday it agreed to make digital television set-top boxes for Comcast Corp. as the largest U.S. cable company expands its push into the digital home.

Panasonic will supply 250,000 high-definition digital video recorder boxes to Comcast, which has an option to buy as many as 750,000 additional devices in the first year, the two companies said at a news conference at the annual Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas.

---------
Max

umenon

01-05-06, 04:32 PM

And this ...
-----------
Top U.S. cable operator Comcast Corp. on Thursday said it planned to purchase new digital set-top boxes made by South Korean consumer electronics company Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd. beginning in 2007.

Comcast plans to order 200,000 boxes initially, with the possibility of ordering another 500,000 units, the company said at the annual Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas.

The new boxes will let users connect their digital music players and digital cameras to the boxes, Comcast said.

The deal comes a day after it announced a similar deal with Panasonic Corp. of North America to purchase 250,000 set top boxes. Panasonic is a division of Japan's Matsushita Electric Industrial Co. Ltd.
----------

Comcast - "Come cast the line and see what we catch" ... from Panasonic->Samsung->???

... dreading the next potential announcement - "Comcast to buy DVR boxes from CyberHome"

Max

HDPhish

01-05-06, 04:35 PM

I think there's light at the end of the tunnel all around... Comcast has also now agreed to buy Samsung boxes, and Scientific-Atlanta announced (and won an award for) a DVR + DVD recorder (MCP-100 (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/newscenter/index.htm))

As for the TiVo vs. thing...
I get my SA8300HD on Friday and have been a TiVo fanatic/owner since their first box. Here's the bottom line:

As much as I know nothing currently available will have the feature-rich user interface that TiVo has, I also know that TiVo has lack in other areas... dual tuner, HD capability for example, additional hard drive support (without hacking). I just couldn't wait through more "coming soon" messages and will now be moving the TiVo to a barely-used SD TV. I expect the 8300 to have it's annoyances, and even bugs, but at LEAST I'll be able to watch HDTV and at least be able to record one channel while watching another.

If TiVo finally gets in the game and offers their HD CC-Ready TiVo and I get assurances it's working locally I'll be the first back on board... but in the meantime... sorry TiVo.

DoubleDAZ

01-05-06, 07:02 PM

Paul,

That is all very true, but you and most others don't come to this thread to simply bash SA. There is a big difference between questioning how something works and offering suggestions vs just complaining that you don't undersand why Tivo programmers can do it and SA programmers can't even after many items have been identified numerous times as being proprietary. All the bitching in the world is not going to change the legalities of that situation.

Then too, some folks just cannot seem to grasp the major difference between Tivo controlling their IPG database vs cable not willing to buy enhanced versions of their IPG that are available from GemStar/TVGuide, et al, at least not yet. Again, all the whining isn't going to change that, at least not in this particular thread. We all agree that Tivo has the best interface, but we are stuck with what we have and we are simply trying to get the most out of it without constantly getting side-tracked by Tivo is better, Tivo can do this, etc.

If someone wants to start a Tivo vs cable DVR thread to discuss all these issues, I'd be more than happy to participate. I am more that happy to answer questions asking if the 8300 can do this or that, but once the answer is provided, why do so many (mostly former Tivo users IMHO) have to then chastise SA programmers as if it's all their fault, etc.? Like it or not, there are sigificant roadblocks, including the cableco's themselves, that will probably always keep the 8300 inferior to Tivo. Cable does not want you to be able to tailor their IPG. They want you to have to scroll through 10's of channels to find what you want,at least until enough of us say enough. They, and advertisers, also don't want you FF'ing past commercials, hence no 30-second skip. Even Tivo had to take that option out and let you hack it back in AFAIK.

From what I've seen, the cable IPG is not much, if any, worse than the "basic" DirecTV IPG. The problem comes from those wanting Tivo features at a cable price and that is why a lot of them switched. And, there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting those features, and eventually they will come, even if it means Tivo expanding further into the cable world. Their current foray will be interesting to watch and see where the software and prices go. I would love to be able to rent an HD Tivo for cable at $15/mo and $5/mo for the service, but until that happens, we have the 8300 and it DOES record 2 HD programs, etc., etc.

DoubleDAZ

01-05-06, 07:11 PM

Quick question about show info.

When I am watching a show and hit info, the small box pops up on the bottom with the beginning of the show description. If I hit it again, the larger box appears, but most of the time it still does not include the entire description. Occasionally even going to the guide and selecting the show manually will not include the entire description. Is there any way to scroll through the show description to get all of the info?I'm not sure what you mean by "the entire description". That is all the information that has been entered into the IPG database and that's all there is. If you are looking at other sources, like TV Guide or TitanTV, etc., they are simply able to include more data than is available in the limited space provided in the IPG. AFAIK, the space available by hitting Info twice is the same that is provided in the IPG, it's just formatted a little differently, but I'venever noticed any difference in the data provided.

foghorn2

01-05-06, 07:55 PM

I WAS a DTIVO user. Got HD so I switched to COX with the SA8300HD.

The SA is a piece of work. It just needs a full screen interface(widescreen IPG), a few bug fixes like the kick back to live when finished and the degraded copy to VCR feature, and I'll be completly happy with it.

I would never think of getting a cable card HD TIVO again!

DoubleDAZ

01-05-06, 08:07 PM

HDPhish,

A couple of comments:

I saw mention of that award quite some time ago on SA's website and there is a fairly nice information sheet on the MCP-100. The fact that SA wins these kinds of awards for some of it's devices makes me believe even more that the problems we continue to complain about here are more due to the inane IPG that cableco's currently use than anything inherently wrong with SA hardware or software. Unless I'm mistaken though, the MCP-100 looks like a repackaged SA8300MR-HD with a built-in DVD recorder and will still be subject to copyright rules and the cableco IPGs. At any rate, I simply refuse to believe that if the 8300 were privy to a Tivo-like IPG database, it would be every bit as good as the Tivo, but that's just me.

And, for many of the reasons cited above, I'm not sure what Samsung entering the cable realm does if the IPGs remain inane. I couldn't find any info on a cable-ready Samsung box, but then I didn't spend a lot of time trying either. At any rate, the competition for SA can't hurt as I don't think Motorola gives them a very good run for their money.

I didn't understand your comments about Tivo. The HD Tivo is dual-tuner and I don't think adding additional storage is any more of a hack than putting together your own SATA expansion for the 8300, though I don't know that much about adding to Tivo.

You will have plenty of annoyances with the 8300 unless you approach it as if you simply replaced your VCR with a DVR. Before I got my 8300, I used a VCR with my Cox digital box and VCR Commander. For me, moving to the DVR was a no-brainer and it has done what it said it would do. Even before the DVR, I wished I could tailor the IPG to only show the channels I wanted. I wished I could set up a Wish List, as well as many other Tivo features. So, not having those features was no worse with the DVR than it was with the VCR. Would I like those features? Sure, but I don't go ballistic (I would say postal, but I happen to be a letter carrier :) ) because I don't have them. I record 2 HD programs and I watch them. All the Tivo features are available on TitanTV and all I need to do is pull my wireless notebook on to my lap and check. I add whatever to the schedule if it's in the current IPG or I add a TitanTV reminder and add it to the schedule at a later date, not all that difficult to do.

DoubleDAZ

01-05-06, 08:19 PM

Max,

Anything announced for 2007 means it will probably be 2008 or beyond. :)

I find it interesting that Comcast is making deals with so many different makers, but I expect others to follow suit. I believe it's been said that the myriad of cable head-ends will become a thing of the past and any cable-ready tuner will work on any system. This should let users buy their tuner of choice and just plug it in much like they do cable-ready TVs today and much like DirecTV users do.

foghorn2

01-05-06, 09:15 PM

DoubleDAZ

01-05-06, 10:01 PM

Not really sure what that lead means other than boxes for someone besides SA and Motorola. There was no info on the boxes other than connecting digital music boxes/cameras and AFAIK the 8300 already has the ports to do this too. It will still take software to make it all work and it will be interesting to see just what that entails.

The big thing about all this is that I can't wait for a report from vegggas offering his take on CES happenings and what they mean for the future of HDTV. :)

One last thing is that everyone wishing for Tivo features might want to take at look at this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=626897) started by HDPhish, looks very promising compared to what cable currently offers.

rick1matthews

01-05-06, 11:06 PM

I truly wish there was something that could be said to pacify former Tivo users, but there isn't. It's kind of like owning a 6-speed Corvette and then exchanging it for a 3-speed Miata, you will never be happy again. Unless ALL patents expire quickly, you will never be happy with the 8300 and no amount of discussion regarding patents, prices, etc., will help.

I've never had a Tivo. I am mostly happy with my 8300HD. I just can't understand:

1. Why the "Copy to VCR" horrible playback every passed quality control testing,

2. Why they have not come out with a software patch in the ten months since they introduced this problem with a firmware revision, and

3. Why they have no means whatsoever of getting reports of such problems. It is clear the cable companies are not very effective at passing on these complaints.

But I have not complained about the competence or structure of SA until this post in response to yours. My previous posts have all been focussed on exploring the nature of the problem and whether it is a universal problem with the 8300 and 8300HD units.

HDPhish

01-05-06, 11:54 PM

And, for many of the reasons cited above, I'm not sure what Samsung entering the cable realm does if the IPGs remain inane. I couldn't find any info on a cable-ready Samsung box, but then I didn't spend a lot of time trying either. At any rate, the competition for SA can't hurt as I don't think Motorola gives them a very good run for their money.

Samsung and Panasonic have both agreed to provide boxes to Comcast. And Comcast and TiVo already have a deal (Comcast will push TiVo software out on existing set-top boxes). Don't know what it does for the IPG problems at all, but since TiVo's interface relies on good IPG data, it may be a package deal.

And TiVo pushing its software onto existing boxes will certainly put them back in the game.

I didn't understand your comments about Tivo. The HD Tivo is dual-tuner and I don't think adding additional storage is any more of a hack than putting together your own SATA expansion for the 8300, though I don't know that much about adding to Tivo.

The stand-alone HD TiVo isn't expected to be released until late 2006. The only one available is through DirecTV, and at it's price I'm not interested. I'm also not interested in paying for box soon to be obsolete (DTV won't support it, and it doesn't support mpeg-4 streams), nor a crippled TiVo since that's what it is (it never gets software updates, nor will it connect to a home network). Now I realize the SA8300 won't either (at this point) but I don't have to shell out $400-$800 for it + monthly service.

"Hacking" a TiVo, even to add an additional Hard drive is still a hack that voids the warranty and risks hurting the unit. I'm pretty computer savvy, but not willing to potentially destroy my equipment because expansion is not supported (on current units -- the future HD unit will support SATA hard drives).

I LOVE TiVo, but I'm willing to give up some of the interface features to get HD Dual tuner recording.

You will have plenty of annoyances with the 8300 unless you approach it as if you simply replaced your VCR with a DVR. Before I got my 8300, I used a VCR with my Cox digital box and VCR Commander. For me, moving to the DVR was a no-brainer and it has done what it said it would do. Even before the DVR, I wished I could tailor the IPG to only show the channels I wanted.

There are plusses and minus to tailoring and it's dependant on the sytsem the TiVo is hooked up to. For example, on cablevision it automatically detects what channels are live and available, but on Satellite (Dish Network) it does not. You have to tell it what channels you receive. And there are always "channel lineup changes" messages to content with. Minor annoyance, just be aware, not perfect.

I wished I could set up a Wish List, as well as many other Tivo features.

My husband will miss wishlists more than me. I'm the Season Pass hog ;)

So, not having those features was no worse with the DVR than it was with the VCR. Would I like those features? Sure, but I don't go ballistic (I would say postal, but I happen to be a letter carrier :) ) because I don't have them. I record 2 HD programs and I watch them. All the Tivo features are available on TitanTV and all I need to do is pull my wireless notebook on to my lap and check. I add whatever to the schedule if it's in the current IPG or I add a TitanTV reminder and add it to the schedule at a later date, not all that difficult to do.

Honestly? I've been using TiVo since their first released model and I can tell you that the guide data isn't a killer for me. RARELY have there been times I've chosen to record something that far in the future. There are problems with the guide data in every system, even TiVo (repeats aren't always indicated properly, and even popular shows will be missing descriptions all together -- Dr. Phil comes to mind).

I do have realistic expectations going in, but like I said, right now dual tuner HD capability is most important to me. I've spent the week in my free time reading about the SA8300HD and so far only one question really remains for me...

Is it true the buffer dumps when the show is over? So if I pause at 8:00, start time-shifted watching at 8:20 but the show is over at 9:00, at 9:00 it dumps everything buffered? The user-guide worded it a little weird, so I'm not quite sure of how the buffer fuctions.

Dumping it when the show is over WILL irk me ;) (but still not a show-stopper)

vegggas

01-06-06, 01:27 AM

Ok guys, I have a lot of data. Some specific to the 8300 and some I can share. Here's a quick post for now.
First and formost, the Copy to VCR issue. I described the issue in detail to several people in the group and worked my way up to about the top person involved there. No one through the chain had heard of this problem before. They could not do any testing right there, of course, but one of them actually wanted to test it after the show on one of the units in the display. Nevertheless, I expect to hear from them after the show to hear there results. I also need to co-ordinate with the local cable co to open a case file to get the reported data back to them through a dedicated channel so they could allocate resources to it.
The 8300 is also the platform for the DVD unit (MCP-100) soon to hit the market (done deal). It IS the 8300, as is, with a DVD burner added. This was cool! Anything with copy free will play back in any DVD player, and anything with content protection will playback on CPRM players (somewhat common). It WILL burn HD to DVD, but since there is no standard format chosen at this time, it will only be playable on the unit it was recorded on. The future direct to disk technology for downloading movies, games, CD's, etc sounds cool once implemented. The Home media option was also cool. Playing back files from a laptop, etc, but no timeframes were given for that technology. I have a seperate thread for the MCP-100, so I will go on more over there.
The multiroom for sending SD is gaining ground in many cable systems, but users want the HD version. SA is close, but are investigating better (more stable) methods for sending multiple HD streams in real world conditions (crappy wiring in homes).
The live cable on the phone demo was actually really much better than I imagined. With the network support in place, the rollout seems to be a done deal. Sprint, and all the major cable companies, which already announced the feature, are expecting a huge penetration in the market.

To me, the biggest news for you guys, was the OCAP integration, supported by and displayed by SA. OCAP (Open Cable) is the gateway that Tivo needs to run their software on cable system STB's. It also means that everyone else in the game is writing software too. There were demonstrations from Moxi, Diego, and a few others, with their own IPG and interactive software. These companies are meeting with corporate cable cos trying to sell their version, instead of the standard SA supplied IPG. SA is right there promoting and supporting them. I expect to see new IPG integration, games, better callerID (with digital phone) local business services, etc, etc, relatively soon. The new javascript apps are looking great.

vegggas

telemike

01-06-06, 06:37 AM

I cannot wait to trade my 8300 for the MCP-100

telemike

01-06-06, 07:52 AM

When will the SA8300HD support:

Front Composite Audio/Video Inputs (requires software download)
Supports interconnection to home consumer devices such as VCRs, camcorders, or digital cameras for video and audio pass-through to the TV

trpltongue

01-06-06, 08:22 AM

I'm not sure what you mean by "the entire description". That is all the information that has been entered into the IPG database and that's all there is. If you are looking at other sources, like TV Guide or TitanTV, etc., they are simply able to include more data than is available in the limited space provided in the IPG. AFAIK, the space available by hitting Info twice is the same that is provided in the IPG, it's just formatted a little differently, but I'venever noticed any difference in the data provided.

DAZ,

I don't have a specific example off hand, but for instance, the description when hitting info twice might read:

An unruly western town and a new sheriff meet in this high-noon drama of....

and the rest of the description is cut off. At least, I'm assuming there's more to the description. I'll try to find a specific example and take a pic of it.

Oh yeah, and Lost didn't record again last night. They must have slightly changed the title. Losing recordings is getting pretty old. I didn't have time to check all my scheduled recordings because of Christmas, family, etc. and when I checked for Lost, it was not recorded. It's very frustrating. I think I'm going to setup my (gasp) VCR to record Lost in addition, since it always works.

Russell

DoubleDAZ

01-06-06, 08:44 AM

RemyM

01-06-06, 10:07 AM

When will the SA8300HD support front inputs:

The front inputs are currently active for us on Cablevision since our last patch. So when ever your Cable Co gets the whole new SARA software version that everyone else seems to be waiting for since last year you will have it. Along with the play from beginning option that fixes the kick out to live and 4th FF and REW speed that us CV beta testers have had for 6 months now.

trpltongue

01-06-06, 10:17 AM

Russell,

I understand what you are saying, but I have never seen where the "mini" description differs from the one in the IPG, at least not on our SARA system here on Cox. I also can't remember ever seeing a description ending with...... But, there is more than one IPG out there and perhaps your's does this.

As for Lost, it and some others are notorious for changing start/stop times by a minute or so and if you are recording "in this time slot" you will miss them when they change times.

That's interesting. It must be a different IPG then. I won't say most, but a lot of my descriptions end in .... TWC here in houston hasn't been all that great so it doesn't surprise me.

I actually set up all of my important recordings for "any time slot" just to troubleshoot against this problem. I think they might have dropped the "HD" tag or modified the title slightly. It's a bit of a PITA because the only way to safeguard against it is to check my recordings every week, which is not always feasible. The real bummer is that Lost goes into so much detail each week that now I can't watch any of them until the season is over and I can catch the missed episode in summer re-runs :(

vegggas

01-06-06, 11:53 AM

A few notes...

1) FYI, the front inputs are for passthrough only. No recording.

2) For the info, try comparing what the actual GUIDE data says compared to just using the INFO button in full screen. When in the GUIDE (1/4 video window) the description field is four lines long. When pressing INFO in full screen, the descriptor is only three lines long.

3) There were no new Lost episodes this week.

4) The new 1.5 DVR OS software is, I believe, designed for the MCP-100, so when final compliance testing (external) is complete, the downloads should be available to cable co's for deployment.

vegggas

telemike

01-06-06, 01:13 PM

vegggas-

Keep on SA about the COPY TO VCR issue.

I have not heard back from my local TWC yet about my reporting a problem with it.

Are there any emails for SA we could letter campaing them about?

Thanks.

trpltongue

01-06-06, 01:34 PM

A few notes...

2) For the info, try comparing what the actual GUIDE data says compared to just using the INFO button in full screen. When in the GUIDE (1/4 video window) the description field is four lines long. When pressing INFO in full screen, the descriptor is only three lines long.

vegggas

Even in the GUIDE sometimes the complete description does not show. It is probably a problem with the IPG not restricting the description to 4 lines.

A few notes...

3) There were no new Lost episodes this week.

vegggas

That is good to know! I checked on-line and thought it said this week was a new episode, glad I was wrong :)

Thanks veggas!

zebras23

01-06-06, 03:13 PM

Hello all.

I just traded in my SA3250 for SA8300HD. I have a Sammy HLN507 w/ a DVI input. I need a DVI to HDMI cable. I tried to search this very helpful thread but you get a million hits w/ "cable" and/or "DVI" "HDMI".

Just as a note I'm not believer in the monster cables. But do want to make sure I get one that doesn't limit future options. I see a few "single" link on Froogle for 9.95, but didn't know if that was an issue.

Thanks and I'm not in anyway trying to start a "best" cable debate - just where can I get one for less than $40.

Thanks.

dweissnj

01-06-06, 03:15 PM

My setup is SA8300HD to TH-50PX50U via HDMI from Cablevision Oakland NJ

Every time I power down the TV, the STB switches to 480. When I turn the TV back on, the STB stays on 480 and does not change when I switch to HD channels. I repeat the setup and everthing is OK, until the next time.

Sometimes, It also stays on 480 when I view SD channels and then switch back to HD, but not everytime.

I have tried every combination of supported formats, Auto/Fixed/Upconvert, Easy/Advanced, powering up and down the TV / STB order......

HELP!!!!
(and thanks)

david

telemike

01-06-06, 04:05 PM

I would go back to component video cables. HDMI seems to cause issues with some TV's and format changes.

brigont

01-06-06, 08:14 PM

Mike... Go into the advanced setup menu and select a "fixed" picture type

Then... you need to go into the standard menu and select the type of picture you want to show... I just leave my box set to 720p for my panny... HD looks awesome... SD is ok

BG

My setup is SA8300HD to TH-50PX50U via HDMI from Cablevision Oakland NJ

Every time I power down the TV, the STB switches to 480. When I turn the TV back on, the STB stays on 480 and does not change when I switch to HD channels. I repeat the setup and everthing is OK, until the next time.

Sometimes, It also stays on 480 when I view SD channels and then switch back to HD, but not everytime.

I have tried every combination of supported formats, Auto/Fixed/Upconvert, Easy/Advanced, powering up and down the TV / STB order......

HELP!!!!
(and thanks)

david

DoubleDAZ

01-06-06, 09:13 PM

1. Why the "Copy to VCR" horrible playback every passed quality control testing,I don't believe it's always been his bad. I remember testing it when I first got my 8300 and it seemed okay, VCR quality, none of the jaggies I get now. I suspect they messed it up some when they fixed something else, perhaps SD PQ.

2. Why they have not come out with a software patch in the ten months since they introduced this problem with a firmware revision, andThey have come out with several software revisionsthat cableco's chose not to use forwhatver reason. We here in Phoenix on Cox havehadonly 2 software versions (1.85.x.x and 1.87.16.1) since the 8300 debuted here over 1.5 years ago. Other cableco'sare using 1.88.x.x software that is very close to what the new OS 1.5 will be when released. All SA can do is put the revisions out there, they can't make the cableco's use them.

3. Why they have no means whatsoever of getting reports of such problems. It is clear the cable companies are not very effective at passing on these complaints.I don't like this any more than anyone else, but the cableco is their customer, not the end-user, and SA is not the only company that doesn't deal directly with the end-user. IMHO, like a lotof local TV stations still focusing on analog, not much of this will change until there are enough of us at each cableco to get our voice heard. I'm hopeful that the recent CES announcments will put some pressure on everyone to do a better job and provide a decent product to the subs. I blame the cableco's a lot more than I do SA ofr any short-comings.

DoubleDAZ

01-06-06, 09:21 PM

Is it true the buffer dumps when the show is over? So if I pause at 8:00, start time-shifted watching at 8:20 but the show is over at 9:00, at 9:00 it dumps everything buffered? The user-guide worded it a little weird, so I'm not quite sure of how the buffer fuctions.It seems to me vegggas mentioned that he does exactly that. He starts to watch a channel just before the program comes on. Once it comes on he hits pause and goes about his business, including watching a recording, and then eventually comes back to the paused program without missing a beat. He also doesn't get kicked out to live using this procedure. He can explain it better, especially exactly how the buffers work, but I think I got the gist of it right. Actually, it's fairly easy to set up a test, just pause something you don't care about and then see what happens after an hour passes.

HDPhish

01-06-06, 09:22 PM

couple of questions about the 8300HD

Any way to program the remote to control the volume on an audio receiver? We tried using the manufacturer TV codes, but that didn't work. Has anyone successfully done it?

Also, on our remote the guide and "IO" button do the same thing... they both bring you to the "main menu" ... the guide button isn't bringing us directly to the guide. Is there a setting somewhere we're missing? Remote model # UR2-CBL-CV04 (OCE-0030A Rev 03(08/03/05)

So far so good... HDTV is AMAZING and I can't believe we waiting this long... now I want every channel in HD! Already have a few "season passes" set up. Overall the system seems pretty user friendly. Not as pretty as TiVo, but I didn't expect it to be ;)

DoubleDAZ

01-06-06, 09:30 PM

Even in the GUIDE sometimes the complete description does not show. It is probably a problem with the IPG not restricting the description to 4 lines.Since I use Cox and they use Gemstar/TVGuide data ofr the IPG, it's very probable it's the IPG. Unless you are using Passport software and it does something different, I can virtually guarantee it is not the 8300 cutting ff the data. There are a lot of sources for program info that go way beyond the little info we get in the IPG. The IPG is limited by the amount of memory in the tuner. Before the 3250 and then the 8300 came along, our digital tuners were limited to 3-4 days vs the 7 days of info we now get. It looks to me like those who do your IPG are simply cutting off the data vs editing it to end cleanly.

DoubleDAZ

01-06-06, 09:47 PM

Any way to program the remote to control the volume on an audio receiver? We tried using the manufacturer TV codes, but that didn't work. Has anyone successfully done it?That is exactly why I started looking at alternative remotes and settled on a Harmony 688 (before the 880/890 were available). The 8300 remote would not even turn my Denon on/off, so I didn't have much choice.

Overall the system seems pretty user friendly. Not as pretty as TiVo, but I didn't expect it to be ;)If you use a lot of Season Passes, you might want to regularly do a hard reboot (press and hold the Power button while plugging the power cord in) to clear out the cache and reset the 8300 internals. Being a PC of sorts, the 8300 is prone to memory fragmentation, etc., and periodic reboots seem to help keep things fairly stable. Also, even though it's a PIA, I also delete Season Passes once the rerun season begins. Keeping the schedule clean also seems to help. I do everything everyone else does, but I seem to run into a lot fewer problems following these simply steps.

HDPhish

01-06-06, 09:51 PM

Thanks for the tips Dave. About how often do you do a hard reboot?

ps. I think the R7 is a little more my speed (and price) -- not prepared to pay hundred for a remote!

DoubleDAZ

01-06-06, 10:11 PM

Actually, I don't often follow my own advice. :) I do keep my schedule fairly clean though and I think that is the most important part. For example, when the December rerun season hit, I cleaned out those Season Passes that I knew wouldn't come back until now. I'm gradually adding them back in as new episodes hit the schedule. As soon as anything out of the ordinary happens though, which hasn't for a while now, I do a hard reboot and press on vs getting angry and posting all sorts of nonsense here. The point is that like a PC, there are some minor steps you can take that will help keep things running smoothly. I have yet to miss a recording that I couldn't trace to an IPG problem.

I do have one nagging problem and that is deleting a recording when I clean out recordings I decide not to watch. I recently did that and somehow my recording of Black & White Night got deleted too. That's the 3rd time that's happened and I don't think I deleted it accidently, though I suppose I can't rule that out. Fortunately, it replays on INHD2 a lot, so I'm sure I can record it again. Also, I have the DVD, so it's not that big a deal and that's the only recording I've had this problem with.

HDPhish

01-06-06, 10:28 PM

Being a TiVo user since 99, I've got pretty good maintenance habits ;) -- I tidy up my SPs often, and always delete stuff if it hasn't been watched within 2 weeks. If we haven't haven't "caught up" by then, chances are, we won't.

As for the remote thing... thanks for the suggestion. Even though I original balked at the price, I think I'm going to go with the Harmony 676 or Internet Powered remote. I have a $50.00 best buy gift card from x-mas, and two 10% off coupons for TV accessories and remotes... so I can probably keep the out-of-pocket cost under $100 on either. And the shape is very "TiVo like" (that peanut) which my hand has just grown accustomed to.

But let me ask ya this... if my current remote doesn't let me get directly to the guide by hitting the "guide" button, how will I program a universal to do it...

and ps... we're already considering an SATA drive! My brother works at a big computer chain, so I get everything at cost!

~Amy

MarketingProf

01-07-06, 01:26 AM

I don't like this any more than anyone else, but the cableco is their customer, not the end-user, and SA is not the only company that doesn't deal directly with the end-user. IMHO, like a lotof local TV stations still focusing on analog, not much of this will change until there are enough of us at each cableco to get our voice heard. I'm hopeful that the recent CES announcments will put some pressure on everyone to do a better job and provide a decent product to the subs. I blame the cableco's a lot more than I do SA ofr any short-comings.Sorry DoubleDaz, and you know how much respect I have for you and your invaluable posts, but that is a rationalization at best. Any firm worth its salt today knows if its demand is derived or not, and what the end customers want. Derived demand is no excuse for not building products that please the consumer. For example, Alcoa knows that unless it can make aluminum that can be made into siding that pleases the homeowner (e.g., lasts a long time, does not need to be repainted, does not fade, chip or peel), making aluminum that pleases only the aluminum siding fabricator (e.g., aluminum that is easy to roll and crimp, takes paint quickly) is a short term business. SA must know that pleasing the consumer is its ultimate source of survival. Yes, that may mean getting the cable companies on the stick and upgrading their front ends, etc. But, in the end, if consumers don't value the SA products, AS THEY EXPERIENCE THEM, SA will lose out.

I personally think the 8300 is a damned fine product given the constraints under which it is implemented, but, the product must meet the expectations of the average consumer to which it is targeted, without explanation or blame, or else it will fail.

Given the info from the CES, I think they may be on the right track. Take their products directly to the consumer and make the cable companies carry them because the consumer demands them. Once consumers see what benefits the SA products are really capable of delivering, they will demand these benefits from their cable companies.

David

vegggas

01-07-06, 02:38 AM

Notes as I see them...

HDPhish, trpltongue, I'm starting to think you guys have an alternate IPG/user interface. Have you been to Scientific Atlanta's website, joined the explorer club and looked through the documentation (with screen shots) about the 8300, running native SARA apps? You may be using a different interface than the rest of us, and see things differently. For specific issues, maybe a quick 640x480 digicam photo would explain things better??? Also, HDPhish is on cablevision, which is using an alternate software version, unique to CV users only, and CV remotes, that are not the same as the standard SA AT8400 evereyone else uses.

About the buffer - The buffer is only an hour, but as long as the tuner buffer is on the same channel, you could buffer a delayed viewing theoretically forever. At one hour, the start of the buffer moves ahead, and your paused program will start to play, delayed by 1 hour. A scheduled recording, does not use the same buffer, so once it's finished recording, the tuner buffer starts, kicking you out to live. Pressing record, within a tuner buffer, will allow you to pause the program, go watch a previously saved 30 min show, and come back and resume the program from wher you paused it. As long as the tuner does NOT need to change channels for another recording, it will NOT kick you out to live, and continue buffering the channel you are on. It takes practice to understand the nuances, but they should not be needed in the next DVR software release.
Also, above buffer traits may NOT BE APPLICABLE to CableVision customers.

HDPhish,
Were you one of the ones waiting (refusing?) to get HDTV until you had an HDTV Tivo? There are a lot of people out there just like that who are missing out on a LOT of high quality programming because they are not willing to try something else. Glad you finally tried an HD DVR. Your Guide problem had me confused until I noticed you were on CV's IO plan. Their software is a bit unique right now, and they use their own Universal / CV branded remotes instead of SA's standard AT8400.

I mentiond this yesterday, but SA is really behind OCAP and 3rd party guide / IPG builders. They WANT them to expand the capabilities and have each cable co customize their interface for the better, rather than trying to do a "one for all" interface that has to work everywhere. It's up to each cable co to contract out an OCAP interface provider, but it will start to happen soon. Some of the demo services look very compelling, and as they make it to reality, it's better for all of us.

vegggas

DoubleDAZ

01-07-06, 08:46 AM

MarketingProf,

I'm sorry if you thought I was rationalizing their position as if I support it, I don't. But that's the way it is with them and I totally agree that the "new" competition will force them to think otherwise. They did try to enter the retail market before the 8300 came out, but that fizzled as cable subs simply are not comfortable with purchasing vs renting. Once the head-end equipment no longer matters like it does today, you might see all this stuff move to the retail market or at least not be cableco specific. I would certainlybe willing to purchase an STB as I do a VCR, DVD player, receiver, etc., as long as the price is within reason and there is a longevity expectation I can live with. It would be great to be able to select the software "I" wanted vs what the cableco graciously provides me. :)

lexx

01-07-06, 04:26 PM

I have an HDMI issue that could be discussed in a TV thread, or Receiver thread or this thread. Here's my question.

I want to connect using HDMI cables only. I want to go from my Rogers Cable (Canada) SA8300HD PVR with SARA and flash versions of 1.87.16.a11. ROM image has the same number (less the "a") and the OS is 6.14.11.1.

I want to go to a Pioneer VSX74 HDMI 1.1 compliant switching receiver with the HDMI cable from the SA8300.

From the receiver I want to go via HDMI to an HDMI 1.1 version compliant 65 inch HP 1080p DLP Television.

This setup will not work. I know that. I know most people can't get this to work either. So, what are the prospects that at some point it will work. Is this HDCP induced problem something that may get resolved with a firmware fix, or are the odds that it won't?.

I know about component connections. I'm not looking for a solution to watch a TV show. Do we think someone at CES will address this problem, or at least give me a feel as to what "might" happen?

Thanks

telemike

01-07-06, 11:09 PM

I have made some progress with COPY TO VCR issue:

Mike,

We will forward this information to our engineers for investigation.

Rebecca Murray
Customer Service Specialist

On January 7, 2006 at 10:30 AM, "Mike Sveda" <mdsveda@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>>Dear TWC-
>>
>>Please open a dialog with Scientific Atlanta about the picture quality
>>issue with the SA8300HD DVR when using the COPT TO VCR function. When
>>the last software update for the DVR was done, the COPY TO VCR function
>>is not working like it used to. The picture quality is terrible. It
>>appears to be throwing out half the scan lines. Very bad jaggy
>>picture. I have heard from contacts at CES that talked with Scientific
>>Atlanta and they were not aware of the problem. Please contact them and
>>let them know this is a problem. I can demonstrate this if an TWC
>>Engineer wishes to see or you can test a box there. Thanks for looking
>>into this.
>>
>>Mike Sveda

electric turd

01-08-06, 12:46 AM

I have made some progress with COPY TO VCR issue:
I had a TWC tech at my house arounf a month ago with this issue. Needless to say he didn't seem very informed of a change nor did he act like he really gave a $h!t. I showed him the horrible picture quality of the vcr function and he kept saying stuff like that it was probablt on SA's end, which is true but he didn't seem like like he was going to try and resolve the prob with his higher ups. I understand its not a TWC only problem but atleast act like you will try to help.

HDPhish

01-08-06, 02:44 AM

HDPhish, trpltongue, I'm starting to think you guys have an alternate IPG/user interface. Have you been to Scientific Atlanta's website, joined the explorer club and looked through the documentation (with screen shots) about the 8300, running native SARA apps? You may be using a different interface than the rest of us, and see things differently. For specific issues, maybe a quick 640x480 digicam photo would explain things better??? Also, HDPhish is on cablevision, which is using an alternate software version, unique to CV users only, and CV remotes, that are not the same as the standard SA AT8400 evereyone else uses.

SARA 1.88.15.3 -- that's the version my box is running. Confirmed from Cablevision today that there is no way to get around the fact that the guide button doesn't go directly to guide... that's just the way they have it set up.

From what I've read, it sounds like my box and interface are pretty similar to everyone elses. I'll try to snap some photos tomorrow though.

About the buffer - The buffer is only an hour, but as long as the tuner buffer is on the same channel, you could buffer a delayed viewing theoretically forever. At one hour, the start of the buffer moves ahead, and your paused program will start to play, delayed by 1 hour. A scheduled recording, does not use the same buffer, so once it's finished recording, the tuner buffer starts, kicking you out to live. Pressing record, within a tuner buffer, will allow you to pause the program, go watch a previously saved 30 min show, and come back and resume the program from wher you paused it. As long as the tuner does NOT need to change channels for another recording, it will NOT kick you out to live, and continue buffering the channel you are on. It takes practice to understand the nuances, but they should not be needed in the next DVR software release.
Also, above buffer traits may NOT BE APPLICABLE to CableVision customers.

Sounds very similar to TiVo, and it sort of explains itself as you use it... thanks for explaining it though, because before I got the box it was a huge point of contention for me.

HDPhish,
Were you one of the ones waiting (refusing?) to get HDTV until you had an HDTV Tivo? There are a lot of people out there just like that who are missing out on a LOT of high quality programming because they are not willing to try something else. Glad you finally tried an HD DVR. Your Guide problem had me confused until I noticed you were on CV's IO plan. Their software is a bit unique right now, and they use their own Universal / CV branded remotes instead of SA's standard AT8400.

Hmmm ;) -- It wasn't that I was exactly refusing HDTV as much as I was refusing to go back to Cablevision for a long time. I kept hoping for an HD TiVo option compatible (somehow) with Satellite... I would have jumped to DTV a long time ago if the prices of their darn boxes had came down.

Then, when I pretty much knew I'd eventually have to go to Cable, I kept holding out for the TiVo HD box -- waited and waited... and waited some more. Finally just got fed up with waiting ;)

And I can't express how happy I am... it was like watching TV for the first time when we cruised the HD channels... and even the cable digital channels are much better than satelite ever was through a SD TiVo showing on an HD television. We were getting so many compression artifacts and posterization (and it wasn't a weak signal).

Cablevision remote control SUCKS... I actually did go and get the Harmony 676 today and am quite pleased with it... but I still can't get around the interface issue of the guide button bringing up an introductory menu first... I gave my suggestions to Cable tonight... that being #1... along with letting me set up specific guides to specific people in the house (so my daughter won't see that "Naked Amazon Women from Vagina Island" is on Ho-TV via the Guide). I do employ parental controls but stumbling across interactive channels, PPV and on-Demand while surfing is a bit of a nightmare... and have all the stuff I don't pay for clutter up the guide is just silly. Rep actually said it was a common request, so maybe SA or whoever will do something about it.

I mentiond this yesterday, but SA is really behind OCAP and 3rd party guide / IPG builders. They WANT them to expand the capabilities and have each cable co customize their interface for the better, rather than trying to do a "one for all" interface that has to work everywhere. It's up to each cable co to contract out an OCAP interface provider, but it will start to happen soon. Some of the demo services look very compelling, and as they make it to reality, it's better for all of us.

Yeah, the detailed guide data and advanced searching capabilities will be the biggest missed TiVo items... thank god for wireless internet and a laptop though. Any guides online you recommend for good data and the ability to do advanced searching? I joined Titan to try out, and hubby tried more than me... he said their searching seems kinda week.

I'll tell ya one thing Veggas... TiVo is going to have a hard time staying in the game if they don't move and move quick. I went to the cable center today to exchange a box (they were supposed to give me an SD DVR for my living room and gave me just a receiver)... and there was literally a line OUT THE DOOR with people exchanging their boxes for DVRs. Hub and I paid very close attention and it's amazing how many people said "what's HD?" when asked if they wanted an HD DVR or standard one. I'd say close to 50%. Also, the average consumer sees it as "free" or "very low cost" compared to possibly paying more for a DVR from the store, + service (which most average consumer don't get what they have to pay additional service for)... and with TiVo 3 possibly going for $600-$800 (+ service) it's going to be a hard sell. Honestly, I'd like to jump on the HD TiVo when it comes out, but price dictates it, and it already sounds expensive... and since experiencing HDTV myself, we have a big screen in our sites now... one to hang on the wall... and the current one will get moved into the living room. I'd rather pay the money on a nice 42 or 50 inch Samsung or Sony HDTV right now... and the spot I'd hang it in will be just perfect ;)

So far I'm very pleased with the SA8300HD. I'm excited about what you've shared about the new box (MCP-100) though admittedly I don't see me burning a lot of DVDs... I'd be really excited to hear they are going to support some kind of network capability so I could dump to my computer... even if at lower quality or with DRM.

I'm also going to be watching what Microsoft, Intel and Apple are going to be doing this year... I'm kinda hanging on the rumors right now about Mac World and hoping some of them are true... that a Mac-Mini DVR is in the works sporting Front Row, HD Support, possible VIIS technology or something similar and built-in iPod support. I'd buy THAT in a heartbeat.

DoubleDAZ

01-08-06, 12:09 PM

I joined Titan to try out, and hubby tried more than me... he said their searching seems kinda week.Interesting comment. I can't imagine how TitanTV's search could be any better. You put in whatever search term you want and it finds what's available in their 2 week database. If nothing is available, it will then set up a Favorites item so that you can get the info whenever it shows up in the database. If I see or hear something today about a movie or something coming next month oreven later, I simply set up a Favorite for it and wait for it to show up in the list. You can get the list sent to you by email. The only think I wish they would add is an option to limit searches to New episodes so it could remind me when programs like 24 or The Sopranos, etc., actually start their new seasons. :)

I've actually reduced my reliance on TitanTV ever since I subscribed to hdtvmagazine.com and get a daily guide to HD on my favorite channels. They also have an HD list of movies, shows, etc., that you can download into Excel for further manipulation. If they ever add a Reminder feature like Titan, then Titan will be relegated to SD content only, at last until SciFi and FX go HD. :)

HDPhish

01-08-06, 01:24 PM

DoubleDaz,

Like I said, hubby tried it out more than me.

The ability to do keywords was a VERY attractive feature to TiVo, especially if you're into certain types of shows. For examply, my mom uses TiVo to find and automatically record any show that contains "birds" or "hawks" in the description (she's a bird watcher). My husband likes to search for Kung-Fu movies by director, or even by the words "Kung Fu". I've been playing with that a bit on Titan, using "Program Title" - "contains" and the "description" box checked... I dunno, my results are a bit varied so far. I do like the reminder thing though.

There could be some great improvements to the SA8300HD with a few simple things. For example, if I want to search and browse by title, it shouldn't limit you to just one day... but to all the current available guide data (if you want). Same thing for "Theme". Trying to find a particular program can be a little daunting if you don't know what day of the week it airs, and forget about finding a movie over a block of 9 or 10 days without going through each day individually. These seem like little gripes (and really, overall they are), but it would be a HUGE improvement to how SARA allows for searching.

DoubleDAZ

01-08-06, 04:21 PM

HDPhish

01-08-06, 05:58 PM

Not to stay off topic too long, but you'll never get that kind of capability with the 8300 using the current lame IPGs. Like I've said before, I don't know exactly how SARA interacts with the IPG, but I assume the capability is lacking in the IPG part of the system and not the 8300/SARA. :(

I see this as a function of the SARA software, not the IPG. The way it's filter is too much... instead of just saying "browse title of all available data" it only lets you browse title for the day chosen. As long as the day chosen was a wildcard ("all dates available") it could then bring up the information. The information IS there and IS provided by the IPG.

Now if you're talking about keywords search... SARA could do it, but would only be as good as the IPG data :(

As for Titan, I guess I'd have to see some examples. Are you saying it doesn't find all show containing a given keyword in the description? Or are you saying the descriptions are lacking sometimes?

Seems like tv.yahoo.com is a bit better actually. We'll probably jump between both for now.

One thing I noticed was that in a search for "hawk", it picked up every episode of MASH. :)

LOL!

rick1matthews

01-08-06, 10:29 PM

Suppose I have programmed my 8300HD to a record a program. I arrive home 45 minutes into the show.

Is there a way to begin viewing from the beginning, without rewinding from the current spot?

With my own (non-cable) DVR, I just pull up the list of recorded programs, select the program, and hit play.

Thanks.

TerryB

01-09-06, 07:00 AM

Rick,
The start from beginning is a firmware revision issue. I have received it in three of the last Beta test versions but it has not been released generally. It is on the list of fixes, they just can't seem to get all the ducks lined up at the same time.

TerryB

Paul Simoneau

01-09-06, 09:37 AM

foghorn2

01-09-06, 11:51 AM

Veggas, good scoops. Thanks for the info.

While OCAP looks great for all of us on the surface, I have a feeling things aren't going to work out as well as we'd all like them to. The problem, as always, goes back to the cable companies, and their unwillingness to innovate unless they absolutely have to due to market pressure. They have to face very little direct competition due to their incumbent monopoly status, and any indirect pressure isn't quite solidified yet (DirecTV still setting up MPEG-4 birds and equipment, Verizon FIOS not prevalent yet). So, they'll just sit back, raise rates every year, and rake in the money.

Also, it's in their own best interest to reduce expenses. At this point, their networks are physically deployed, so they only have to worrk about customer service ( as well as acquiring content). How to minimize that ? Reduce entropy. Don't roll out new stuff, be it hardware, software, or both. If everyone's happy with their 8300 now, why should they risk incurring huge numbers of customer service issues by rolling out new software ? It runs just fine as is, right ? If it ain't broke, don't fix it...

But there are things that are broke, they better fix it or we will go elsewhere. I keep switching providers every year with the promotions because of this.

Look at the DTIVO and the b/w banding problem when switching channel problem and no networking. They never even admitted to the problems! Now I'm gone and no money flowing to them from me. Got in the deal with COX. If they do not fix these problems, I'll go with Dish or my wife with get in the deal back with DTV. Because of their shorcommings, these providers will make very little or NO profit from me.

I would be glad to stay with just one, its up to them.

Paul Simoneau

01-09-06, 12:00 PM

Since all of us here at AVS are very likely the early-adopter propeller-head types :) , I'm not sure that we accurately represent the vast majority of consumers that the content providers are targeting. While we may have already digested all of this HD DVR information being thrown at us and come to personal conclusions, there's lots 'n lots of folks who are just getting on board for the first time. Their numbers are vast, and they represent a large financial windfall to the providers if they can manage to snag them.

All the folks who just got their first HDTV this Christmas and realized that they can get additional goodies from their cable company won't realize the pros/cons of HD delivery, DVR quality, etc for a while. And even then, it may not bother them. It's likely a better experience than they had with their non-HD, non-DVR set up.

telemike

01-09-06, 03:20 PM

foghorn2

01-09-06, 04:26 PM

I am happy with the SA8300 for the most part. I just want the COPY TO VCR feature fixed back the way it was. It would be nice to have an option for anamorphic 480i output.....but that will probably never happen.

Same here, it was working perfect until a firmware update. Why the hell did they break this? Was it intentional?

Plaese don't say I'm a conspiracy therorist. Corporations making more and more money is in itself is a conspiracy!

bcoombs

01-09-06, 04:52 PM

Corporations making more and more money is in itself is a conspiracy!

You wouldn't say that if you were a company officer or a stockholder of the company. ;)

DoubleDAZ

01-09-06, 10:43 PM

I doubt it was intentional. If it was, it would only have been to reduce the resolution to 240i or something, not to intentionally mess up the interlacing. Also, if it were intentional and simply bungled, I would think someone here would know the why if it has anything to do with copy-protection or something like that.

Although an early adopter, I don't consider myself a propeller-head. While I can see the advantages of Tivo, I am perfectly happy with my 8300 and it's price tag. I can sympathize with those who want the Copy-To-VCR and other items fixed, but the 8300 is very useable for it's main purpose IMHO. I have every confidence the problems will get fixed,many of them may already be fixed.

One question regarding the Copy-To-VCR thing, has anyone with the 1.88.x.x software tried it to see if it is fixed in that version? Unfortunately, with the way cable doles out new software, so many problems could already be fixed and we'd never know it. We all know the Start From Beginning problem is fixed, yet we keep harping on it as if it were a new problem that SA knows nothing about. If SA were more customer oriented, they'd publish a list of changes for each version they release to the cableco's so we could hound the cableco to get the latest loaded. As things stand now, we rely totally on word of mouth to advise us of changes, new features, etc.

To that end, if someone wants to post a summary of problems, I will try to identify if they've been fixed and in which SARA version. I will then add it to the first post and try to maintain it. Maybe that would reduce some of the chatter and help folks who are new to the thread catch up and not post redundant questions.

VideoRoy

01-09-06, 11:00 PM

I just picked up the 8300HD on Friday from Time Warner in Houston. So far I am pretty impressed but I just ran across the "copy to vcr" problem like many others. I spent about 30 minutes troubleshooting this one but found the only good quality is if I just play the recording and begin recording on my DVD DVR.

It is pretty strange since it is still using the same cables and connectors

I love this forum because I have been able to confirm a number of problems on my 2 different DVRs. Next time I will check here first before too much time wasted troubleshooting.

One question that I hope someone can answer that has received firmware updates before. Will Time Warner just sent firmware updates if the 8300HD requires one or do I have to manually request one?

Thanks.

DoubleDAZ

01-09-06, 11:07 PM

TWC will usually just send it and you may or may not even know it. They usually do this sort of thing very early in the morning.

HDTVFanAtic

01-10-06, 02:32 AM

Same here, it was working perfect until a firmware update. Why the hell did they break this? Was it intentional?

This is exactly why cable companies are slow to push out firmware updates.

You hope it fixes something but have the possibility of screwing something up worse with undiscovered bugs.

And remember that everytime the flash the unit, a few never work again.

VideoRoy

01-10-06, 09:19 AM

TWC will usually just send it and you may or may not even know it. They usually do this sort of thing very early in the morning.
Thanks for the info. I will check my version and keep track of changes.

VideoRoy

01-10-06, 09:59 AM

BTW I spoke to customer service at SA about the "copy to vcr" problem. The guy I spoke to said that feature is not supposed to be active and my cable company did not properly disable it.

He did not have a good answer as to why I have a choice in the menu to use this and the user guide steps me through the use of it.

This leads me to one of two conclusions:

1) SA is going to disable the feature in the future since it does not appear to be ready for prime time.

OR

2) The guy I spoke to is clueless.

I vote for number 2. :rolleyes:

I have been in the software / firmware business for 20 years. I even spent some time in technical support. That was the one of the most lame answers I have heard in a while.

telemike

01-10-06, 11:22 AM

2) The guy I spoke to is clueless.

I vote for number 2. :rolleyes:

I agree. Lat year when I had the SA8000HD, the feature was not there. Then with a firmware update the SA8000HD had the COPY TO VCR feature. The SA8300Hd came with it too and it worked fine until a couple months ago.

foghorn2

01-10-06, 11:35 AM

VideoRoy

01-10-06, 11:48 AM

Right, the quality of the output is great if just playing the recorded programs. But the picture is degraded when the feature is used using the same ports. And its not just the S-video ports, its the RF, and composite also. The problem is not with the ports, but an intentional degradation of the picture using this feature.
Intentional since it is truly trying to match a VCR (VHS) quality? The content I am trying to copy is not copy protected.

I have been through all the manuals from the cable company and SA and did not see this addressed. Also searched here but did not run across it.

I could have missed it.

Thanks for your insight.

foghorn2

01-10-06, 11:57 AM

Intentional since it is truly trying to match a VCR (VHS) quality? The content I am trying to copy is not copy protected.

I have been through all the manuals from the cable company and SA and did not see this addressed. Also searched here but did not run across it.

I could have missed it.

Thanks for your insight.

The quality is below VHS standards. Otherwise we would not be discussing this issue! Record something using both methods and you will see a big difference. ;)

telemike

01-10-06, 01:28 PM

I thknk of 480i as what should be outputted using COPY TO VCR. The old terapin VCD recorder looked better than what comes out of that.

VideoRoy

01-10-06, 01:53 PM

foghorn2

01-10-06, 03:04 PM

I recorded both methods an could definitely tell a difference but it was actually not bad enough that I immediately knew something was wrong. On my setup it looked more like a bad cable than anything else.

Mostly it looked bad where there was movement on the screen. At first I was just thinking it was a difference compression ratio.

Oh well, I will just dub to DVD we I go to bed. I actually do not record too much TV to DVD.

Well I'm glad you are happy with the way it works there in Texas! Now you wont have to comment about this again :)

Many of us here would like this fixed as we do see a big difference.

VideoRoy

01-10-06, 05:06 PM

Well I'm glad you are happy with the way it works there in Texas! Now you wont have to comment about this again :)

Many of us here would like this fixed as we do see a big difference.

I would certainly like the features I paid for to work. I do not like the lame answer I got from SA.

I certainly appreciate the help I receive on this forum and I find it very valuable.

I hope I have not offended you some how, but as you request I will no longer comment on this topic.

Thanks for your help.

RemyM

01-10-06, 05:29 PM

One question regarding the Copy-To-VCR thing, has anyone with the 1.88.x.x software tried it to see if it is fixed in that version?

I have not experienced, nor heard of any reports of quality issues with Copy To VCR on any of the SARA versions, including the 1.88.xx.x versions we have had on Cablevision. We have a pretty active Yahoo forum, with many DVR users, and quality has not come up. The only issues we have had is during one version you could not erase a recording immediately after you finished copying it, which I believe has been fixed. The other one is if you turn off the DVR while a copy was in progress the audio would switch from the show being copied to the audio of the channel the box was on. I'm not sure if that has been resolved or not.

Tiyuri

01-10-06, 09:11 PM

So, my 8300HD is currently recording a show I never requested and it won't let me stop it or use any VCR controls on it. I don't want to reboot because I am recording something I actually want on the other tuner. The show in question is "Sandlot" on Family Channel. Has anyone else seen this? Is it just me? I have Comcast in NJ btw.

EDIT: Well, I waited until Scrubs went to a commercial and rebooted. That fixed it but I still want to know why it would record random things in the first place.

HDPhish

01-10-06, 09:43 PM

Here's a new question for ya...

The front display on the 8300HD box shows the time, and the power icon lit up. When we first boot up the machine the word "AUTO" is lit under the power light, it shows what resolution is currently being broadcast on that channel, and "HDTV" is lit up if the show is being broadcast in HD.

Over the last several days, after a while all those lit options stop being lit... only the power light is lit and the time... no resolution information, no HDTV (even if the guide says the channel is broadcasting in HD), and no "AUTO". We can't figure out a pattern to why it stops... and we don't know if it's effecting the picture quality (my husband thinks it might be... I'm not sure).

Any info anyone can give me about this? Is it possible I'm turning off some feature somehow (accidentally of course). In the user manual it says "AUTO - Automatically outputs native scan rates that your TV can accept". Is it possible AUTO isn't staying on for some reason?

I had gone through the easy setup and selected the resolution my HDTV could accept... 480p standard, 480p widescreen and 1080i. I have also selected a 16:9 TV (which is what I have) and for the picture settings: upconvert 1.

Any help is appreciated.

ps. added later: We reset the box tonight (hard reboot) and all was fine for a little while (AUTO, resolution, HDTV displayed)... within an hour all were gone again. We can't figure out anything we might be doing to effect this...

DoubleDAZ

01-10-06, 10:30 PM

I recorded both methods an could definitely tell a difference but it was actually not bad enough that I immediately knew something was wrong.Then I suspect you are not experiencing the same problems the rest of us are. There is no way the PQ is anywhere near acceptable and you would immediately notice the difference even if you weren't looking for it.

The fact that RemyM also doesn't know of anyone complaining of the problem in their Yahoo group, leads me to believe this problem may be somewhat limited in scope to a select group of cableco's, though I have no idea what they could all have in common.

As for the SA CSR, he/she is clueless beyond all doubt.

vegggas

01-11-06, 12:51 AM

foghorn2

01-11-06, 01:26 AM

I would certainly like the features I paid for to work. I do not like the lame answer I got from SA.

I certainly appreciate the help I receive on this forum and I find it very valuable.

I hope I have not offended you some how, but as you request I will no longer comment on this topic.

Thanks for your help.

Hey there, no offence. From the last post you seemed content finding a solution that worked for you. I just did not want to let the issue at rest from your post for the rest of us who are not as pleased.

Please comment on any topic you wish to, as will I.

Peace.

HDPhish

01-11-06, 01:51 AM

HDPhish,
First, are you using HDMI? A digital display with non-standard native resolution would do this. Try using a fixed resolution.
You could also turn on the 480i resolution. Your STB is probably locking on a lower res that is not specified.

vegggas

Not using HDMI... using component.

My HD TV is an older one... only capable of 480p and 1080i (which is why I chose upconvert 1). I'll try switching it to fixed and see if that helps...

I chose upconvert 1 because as I read it would upconvert 480i to 480p and 720p to 1080i (being my TV is only capable of 480p and 1080i).

vegggas

01-11-06, 02:17 AM

I would still choose 480i as a format. There may be a problem when it's on analog channels. Upconvert is a form of AUTO, and there are known isues when not selecting all standard formats.

vegggas

DoubleDAZ

01-11-06, 08:41 AM

VideoRoy, he was just joking, note the Smiley. Don't stop posting because of that.

VideoRoy

01-11-06, 09:13 AM

Hey there, no offence. From the last post you seemed content finding a solution that worked for you. I just did not want to let the issue at rest from your post for the rest of us who are not as pleased.

Please comment on any topic you wish to, as will I.

Peace.
I appreciate that. Your point is well taken though. Unless I have something constructive I should not post randomly.

VideoRoy, he was just joking, note the Smiley. Don't stop posting because of that.
I have pretty thick skin but you never know if you rub someone the wrong way.

This is one of the best forums for technical video information I have run across. I hope to be able to give some back as well.

Thanks.

OrangeKid

01-11-06, 11:58 AM

MY SA 8300 HD with a Maxtor Quickview 300 GB Sata drive has been working perfectly for months until I had a glitch yesterday. Last night when I would push the list button to get the list of recorded shows the list would flash briefly and then disappear. The program guide worked fine. I turned the box off and on several times to no avail. I rebooted the box by disconnecting the power and the list of recorded programs came on as usual.

I erased several programs as at the box showed it was 92% full. I don't know if being almost full had anything to do with it but I'll keep my eye on it.

HDPhish

01-11-06, 03:55 PM

I would still choose 480i as a format. There may be a problem when it's on analog channels. Upconvert is a form of AUTO, and there are known isues when not selecting all standard formats.

vegggas

I was watching a RECORDED show last night and trying to keep my eye on the display. I didn't notice exactly when, but at some point AUTO, the resolution indication and HDTV stopped showing. I'm wondering if it could have something to do with the commercials??

I'll try the 480i, but when I go through the setup 480i is not a valid display and shows messed up on my screen (so according to the on-screen prompt, I shouldn't select it). I noticed that the AUTO goes off when I switch to fixed instead of upconvert 1 (but the resolution indication stays on). I'll try keeping it on fixed for a while and see if that works.

Thanks for the help with this wacky issue ;)

telemike

01-11-06, 04:01 PM

Try setting the 8300 to 1080i only.

HDPhish

01-11-06, 07:47 PM

Just an update.

I tried setting the 8300hd to send ALL resolutions, with upconvert 1 on -- the info display indicators for AUTO, resolution and HDTV all disappear (from the front panel of the box) after a little while.

I tried setting the box to send 1080i only, with "fixed" selected -- info also disappeared after a while.

I tried setting it to send all but 720p -- info still disappeared after a while.

and I tried setting it at what I'd original set it up for (1080i, 480pS and 480pW) with both upconvert 1 for a bit, and fixed for a bit - same exact result on both and as above.

AND, it has happened where the display information stayed lit up for an hour, or only 10 minutes (after hard reboot).

It has disappeared in the middle of show (on analog). It has disappeared in the middle of watching a recorded show (HD). It has disappeared in the middle of a show on a digital channel, non-HD and HD. I can't trace it to anything I'm doing or even anything the signal might be doing.

So essentially, nothing I do seems to solve it. The only thing I confirmed was the upconvert 1 was working as expected -- if I set the cable box to send all resolutions, but with upconvert 1 selected I could see all channels. If I set it to passthrough channels in 720p were black on my TV (which is not capable of 720p or 480i).

ANY ideas? Can anyone tell me if this info is supposed to always be displayed?

vegggas

01-11-06, 08:53 PM

This may be a bug in the Cablevision software. Report it to your cable company as a possible bug/problem. So far, it's appears undocumented on this thread by everyone else, so you have a new one to go along with your newer beta software.
Do you have a local area group that might be able to report similar issues?

Anyone else with cablevision to comparre notes for a local software issue?

vegggas

HDPhish

01-11-06, 11:27 PM

I'm part of a cablevision yahoo group too, so I'll try posting over there and see if anyone knows.

I'll call cablevision to report it, but it is one of those problems I KNOW they won't be able to help with via phone... just explaining it is hard enough let alone expecting someone at tech support to "get it" and have a fix.

DoubleDAZ

01-12-06, 08:30 AM

FWIW, I've been watching my display (no problems) and this definitely appears to be local to your cableco or your specific 8300.

Trakkan

01-12-06, 01:18 PM

Ok, so I've been using my 8300HD unit from Comcast recently (just picked it up on Saturday), and I'm already having some serious issues with it. I can handle the lack of a good search engine and the small video delay when FF or RW within a show. However, I've only had the unit for 4 days, and it already missed a scheduled recording!

Last night, I had Lost set up to record all new episodes on the high-def channel. I double checked everything within the scheduled recording area, and both episodes were listed correctly (8pm and 9pm start times). So, I sat down to watch the 8:00 episode when it was about halfway through. I had read about getting kicked out of the show when it finishes recording, so I wasn't that surprised when it happened at 9:00 (disappointed, but not surprised). So, I just went back into my recording and skipped to the end to rewind to where I was booted from. About 10 minutes later, I looked a bit more closely at my unit, and realized that it wasn't showing the signs of currently recording anything.

Beginning to get concerned, I stopped the episode that was just ending, and went to search for the second show in my list of recordings... it wasn't there. I looked it up in my scheduled recordings, and it showed up quite clearly, yet the DVR was not doing anything... already 10 minutes into the show. So, I went into the guide to manually record the episode again and tried to rewind it to the beginning again, but it would not go back. Luckily, I still had my DirecTv set up with my TiVo unit recording the SD version of the show, so I was able to watch the first 10 minutes there, and then come back to my manual HD recording on the 8300 to finish the show.

Needless to say, I am more than a little concerned. This was only the fourth recording I had set up since getting the DVR, and it's already missing shows. Is this what I can expect from here on out?? We have grown so used to our TiVo unit that we rarely watch live TV anymore. However, as much as I love HD (which is why I was switching back to cable, DirecTv finally admitted that they never submitted my network waiver requests), I would much rather watch a standard definition version of our shows, than end up missing the episodes entirely...

Was this a fluke caused by the same show airing twice in a row, or is this pretty common for these DVRs? Right now, I just can't see myself keeping the unit the way things have gone so far.

telemike

01-12-06, 02:02 PM

The first LOST was a repeat. 2nd was new. The FIRST RUN EPISODE flag might not have been in the IPG. Next time do a record all episodes, any time on channel and keep 2 in reserve in case.

Lampei

01-12-06, 02:10 PM

But if it recorded the first one (which would not have been flagged as new), then it should have recorded the second one (even if it thought it was a repeat, as it recorded the first show).

Paul Simoneau

01-12-06, 02:19 PM

The first LOST episode wasn't really a "repeat", but more of a compilation of cuts from the previous few weeks. So, it wasn't a repeat of a previous single episode, but no new material was shown. Judgement call on the part of the listings in the episode guide.

In any event, the 8300 should have recorded the second episode.

I've also observed the behavior where a scheduled recording doesn't happen, but its listing is still in the "scheduled recordings" list, even after that day has passed. In fact, I've got such an entry right now. A recording scheduled for 1/9 was missed, yet it remains in my "scheduled recordings" list to this day. Haven't tried to delete it, because I don't want to go through the hassle of having to re-program the series recording (which might screw something else up).

Yup, it's a BIG bug.

Lampei

01-12-06, 02:57 PM

One other thing to check with your recordings this week:
I have my 8300 set up to record Simpsons, Family Guy, and American Dad each week (all episodes on this channel at this time).
This week 24 is scheduled to be played instead of the regular 8-10 block. I wanted to record 24 and my DVR was showing that it was set to record it. I thought it must have "remembered" my old scheduled recording of it. I then went and checked Monday's 24 listing (2 new episodes this week, Sunday and Monday, both 8-10). I saw that the Monday listing was *not* scheduled to be recorded. I went ahead and scheduled the Monday episode to be recorded (all episodes on this channel at this time).
I figured I would go back and check the Sunday recording to make sure it was being recorded. Being skeptical (and being burned by it "deciding" not to record shows before) I went ahead and cancelled Sunday's recording of 24. Lo-and-behold it said "Are You sure you want to remove all episodes of the Simpsons". I said OK, then I had to reschedule 24 to be recorded for Sunday and Monday (as it wasn't going to record Sunday's episode otherwise).
Now I just have to remember to schedule The Simpson's to be recorded on the following Sunday.

Good times :)

Trakkan

01-12-06, 04:27 PM

Right, the first Lost, while not technically showing any new footage, was not actually considered a repeat. Regardless, both shows were originally highlighted red in my guide to denote they were scheduled to be recorded. Even after I started the second recording of the 9pm show, the original was still showing up in my scheduled recordings section. Essentially, I had listed to be recorded:

Lost 9:00 - 10:00
Lost 9:10-10:00

This was at around 9:30, when I went back to the 8300 to finish watching the show in HD. I'm not sure if there's anything I can do to prevent it from happening, but the 9:00 one just never recorded for some reason. That didn't give me the warm fuzzies. :(

DoubleDAZ

01-12-06, 08:42 PM

Lampei,

I'm not sure I'll explain this right, we had a big discussion about htis in another thread. You cannot reply on the IPG to show you what programs will be recorded, you have to check the Scheduled Recordings list. The IPG is flagged in Red if there is a program scheduled to be recorded in that time slot, whether or not the program is actually on. The 8300 does not remove the Red flag until the recording is about to begin or the scheduled recording is cancelled. In your case, The Simpsons was scheduled for that slot and the slot would have remained Red until the recording should have started. The 8300 would have then checked the Title, seen that it was not The Simpsons, and it would not have recorded anything. Although this is a pretty bad way to do things, I think they'd have to constantly check the Scheduled Recordings List against the IPG each time it is updated to avoid this and they don't do the check until the last minute.

FWIW, I've got CSI and Without A Trace scheduled for New epsiode recordings and they are both Red flagged in tonight's IPG, even though I already know thay are reruns. They will stay Red until within the 2 minute warning period and then the Red flag will disappear. This is the way it's been since day 1 and I don't know if or when it's going to be changed. The main thing is that if a recording is not in the Scheduled Recordings List, it will not be recorded no matter what the IPG shows.

SeanRiddle

01-12-06, 08:45 PM

Interesting- my wife put in both Scrubs the other day. I just happened to look through the guide before airtime and noticed only the first one was set to record. We assumed she had not gone through all the steps for the 2nd one. I added it and both recorded fine.

She had also added both Losts, and remembers seeing both of them in the guide marked to record. But last night when we got home, only the 1st one had recorded. The 2nd one was not in the scheduled recording list. (Thank goodness they are showing it again next week!) So this morning she put in the 2nd one to record, and when she looked at the guide, it only showed the 2nd one was scheduled to record, not the first. She went back and put the 1st one back in, and they both showed up. I checked later, and just the first one was scheduled to record.

I decided the safest thing to do was to tell the 8300HD to record the first one, and set the end time an extra hour ahead, so that both would be recorded. I selected the recording and changed the end time, and when I was done we checked it and it had the original end time! Again, I assumed I had hit the wrong key somewhere, so I did it again with both of us watching, and it did the same thing- the end time did not change. I had to delete the original recording and re-add it with the extended time, then it showed up as I wanted. We had the exact same problem with Scrubs.

I bet this will record both episodes, but it's far from ideal. If we don't want to watch one right after the other, we will have to FF through the first one to watch the 2nd, and we will be using twice as much space until we finish watching the 2nd one and can delete.

We always choose the "record all episodes/keep all episodes/in this time slot" options. We're in Edmond, OK on Cox cable, SARA version 1.87.16.1. We've recorded dozens of programs and haven't had this occur before, but this is the first time we've tried to record the same show in two consecutive time slots.

Sean

DoubleDAZ

01-12-06, 09:02 PM

But if it recorded the first one (which would not have been flagged as new), then it should have recorded the second one (even if it thought it was a repeat, as it recorded the first show).Both episodes were recorded here, so I assume both were flagged as New in our IPG, that is the way I have it scheduled. Both were also flagged as New on TitanTV and both were new episodes even though the first was a new complilation to bring folks back up to speed after the holiday reruns, etc. My guess is that someone messed up the IPG, perhaps reversing what they thought should have been New and Rerun since Lost is usually on in the earlier timeslot. FWIW, any DVR is only as good as the data it has to work with, GIGO. The2 things I don't understand are:

1. Why isn't the New flag dispayed in the IPG like the HD flag is?

2. Why doesn't the 8300 go through a Scheduled Recordings check as soon as the IPG is updated each night and only flag those timeslots that will actually be recorded?

It does that if you schedule recordings on the day the program is to air. If you select a program from the IPG and schedule a New episode recording, the program will only be Red flagged if that day's episode is actually a new one. If a New Episode recording had been scheduled for Lost yesterday instead of earlier in the week, only one episode would have been Red flagged in the IPG. Of course, this assumes the New flag was incorrectly set, which I believe was the case.

DoubleDAZ

01-12-06, 09:11 PM

HDPhish

01-12-06, 09:45 PM

I just thought of one other possible explanation and that is the actual title of these 2 episodes of Lost. It seems to me a saw a reference to the first one being called LOST:something instead of just LOST, even though the IPG displayed LOST for both. We had this problem a couple of years ago when The Billionaire was called The Rebel Billionaire every other week. We couldn't figure out why we'd miss every other episode. I'd get The Billionaire and a friend would get The Rebel Billionaire and it all came down to when we actually set up our schedules. FWIW, the IPG always just showed The Billionaire and that is why I believe the titles displayed can differ from the titles used for recording. As a programmer, I often duplicated fields that were used for different purposes, in thiscase a short title for display and the actual title for recording.

Even TiVo can have a problem with those kind of naming differences. It could be there is that second field you're talking about (I don't do programming but work closely with programmers so understand the concepts) and they may well be there (at least for TiVo), but it would then be up to the broadcasters to make sure they're filling in all the fields (providing the information) -- just like with reruns. I'd imagine some networks will and others won't. Something as popular as Lost was probably fine on TiVo (didn't try it so don't know for sure), but I've had this kind of issue with the show "What Not to Wear" when they have "specials" like "What Not to Wear: Revisited".

If the 8300 doesn't work with the duplicate fields, or the IPG doesn't use them, it's easy to see what the problem might have been.

DoubleDAZ

01-12-06, 11:21 PM

FWIW, I just confirmed the 8300 doesn't check the schedule against the IPG until the Start time is reached. Without A Trace was red until the time display rolled over the start time.

As for Tivo having similar problems, I'm sure they do, as do all DVRs dealing with incorrect IPG data, but they handle some of these issues better than the 8300 does. From what I've been told, you can enter CSI in Tivo and pick up both CSI:Miami and CSI:NY. Even though you might only want Miami, Tivo afficianados will say more is better than not enough and they'd be right. Even with my examples, Tivo could key on just Billionaire and not miss an episode like the 8300 does. I also don't believe Tivo flags programs that are not going to get recorded. It seems they check the IPG against the schedule on the fly and only flag the programs for recording when there is a match. The 8300 flags based on the timeslot and then makes the final decision when the start time is reached.

Tivo also uses a priority scheme to deal with 3 recordings scheduled for the same time. The 8300 simply doesn't record anything nd I can see some folks running up against that problem too if they added recordings to their schedule during the holidays and the regular programs have returned, like 24, etc.

These really aren't big deals if you are aware of them and get in the habit of checking the Scheduled List instead of relying on the IPG red flags. You can also minimize the problems in the first place by keeping your schedule clean and up to date with the current TV schedule. Granted, you shouldn't have to do that,but it's better than dealing with the problems until they get fixed. I fear some of this may also be proprietary, like Start From Beginning, etc., and fixes are not forthcoming. :(

HDPhish

01-12-06, 11:43 PM

Having a TiVo for many years I know it does the scheduling better... was just making the point that even TiVo isn't perfect with these kinds of things. I'm in the habit of keeping my schedule clean and checking up-coming recordings, but I did that with TiVo too. And you're right, it's not a big deal. Sorta like the skip-back after fast forwarding (like TiVo does)... I've already got the finger motion down for Play then Replay on the 8300, and it works just as good.

One thing I didn't understand in what you said was the "Start from Beginning" thing... my 8300 has that option already. I'm not exactly sure what you meant though...

DD, I have to thank you for all the great tips in their thread... it's really making the transition to the 8300 quite painless :) -- I've already enjoyed watching recorded shows in HD on the 8300HD, and my daughter is enjoying the standard version just as much... she's recording up a storm (and hasn't asked me for a bit of help... just made the transition smoothly).

Paul Simoneau

01-13-06, 07:11 AM

Yes, TiVo has multiple methods of recording shows. Its guide data, while not perfect, is accurate well over 99% of the time.

The "Season Pass" is most like the 8300's "Series Recording". It will record a particular show "CSI:Miami" on a given channel. You may opt to record only first run shows only, or first runs and repeats.

The "Wishlist" is a much more flexible option. It's basically a search engine, and not channel dependent. You can search on keywords, specific actors, specific show genres, or parts of a show's name. You may provide partial show names, or use a wildcard, to capture mutlitple shows. For example, "CSI" will grab all of the shows Miami, Las Vegas and original flavor.

So, if you know of a show that fools around with the title from time to time (Survivor is a frequent offender with its finales), a Wishlist is a far more effective option. Keying on "Survivor", rather than a Season Pass for "Survivor:Panama", will not only grab the alternately named "Survivor:Panama Finale", but all future Survivor seasons, which all have different names. Don't need to touch a thing.

Yes, there is also a prioritization mechanism which allows you to determine automatic conflict resolution without user intervention. This is quite handy. When I had TiVo, I have higher priority to shows that only appeared once per week (Lost), rather than shows that appeared multiple times (Sopranos).

Yes, the Season Pass is patented. I'm less sure of the WishList, but it's also likely to be patented. Even less sure about prioritization, since the Motorola 6412 that Comcast uses has this feature.

DoubleDAZ

01-13-06, 09:38 AM

One thing I didn't understand in what you said was the "Start from Beginning" thing... my 8300 has that option already. I'm not exactly sure what you meant though...Most of us don't have that option when we join a recording in progress. We have to REW to the beginning and then we get kicked out to live when the recording finishes. We then have to restart the recording and either FF (or REW from the end) to get back to where we were. Most cableco's are waiting for OS 1.5 before upgrading and it will have that and other new options that Cablevision software already has.

It's unfortunate that the first version of the Cablevision software had so many other bugs that it scared off most other cabelco's, that version seems fairly stable now that those bugs have been fixed. When it first appeared though, users reported missing 40% or more of their scheduled recordings for no reason in addition to other problems.

DD, I have to thank you for all the great tips in their thread...Thanks, but I don't deserve the credit. "vegggas" did all the legwork on the SA8000HD and I simply updated it for the SA8300HD because he didn't get his 8300 in Las Vegas until well after other markets. I have tried to maintain the first post, following vegggas' lead with his 8000 thread, and I owe most of the info to the fine folks who post here and offer ideas. The comparisons to Tivo have been contentious at times, but I think we've all learned that the 8300 can record HD fairly painlessly, as you and your daughter have found, even though the interface is several steps backward. While not a Tivo, it's certainly better than the VCR it replaces and software enhancements will come, though not as fast as most of us would like. As long as it records what I ask it to, I'm happy and feel sad for those who are so into their Tivo's that they are missing some excellent HD today. :)

DoubleDAZ

01-13-06, 09:49 AM

Thanks for the quick summary, Paul.

Even less sure about prioritization, since the Motorola 6412 that Comcast uses has this feature.It can still be patented, Motorola probably reached an agreement with Tivo to use the feature. This is not unlike SA's recent agreement that now allows the Start From Beginning option to be used when joining a recording in progress (once the software is updated, that is). Who knows what other features they reached agreement on that may be included in OS 1.5 when released?

On that note, I guess it's time to ask if there has been any further word on OS 1.5 now that CES is over. Vegggas?

BPlayer

01-13-06, 09:51 AM

I just confirmed the 8300 doesn't check the schedule against the IPG until the Start time is reached.This is an annoying glitch. Sometimes a regularly scheduled program is replaced with another program that I would like to catch.

With this situation the repeat recording has to be cancelled, the new recording scheduled, and then I have to remember to set the repeat recording when the original program is scheduled again.

DoubleDAZ

01-13-06, 10:06 AM

IIRC, I have been able to schedule a new recording even though the IPG is highlighted (and I was surprised at the time). Of course this would only work if you are using the New Episode option and not the All Episodes In This Timeslot option. If you are using the latter option, this can hardly be considered a glitch since it's doing exactly what you asked it to do. Too bad this didn't come up earlier last night, I could have double-checked because CSI and Without A Trace were reruns and I have New Episode recordings scheduled.

RemyM

01-13-06, 12:38 PM

On the SARA version that most of you are using when an all episode recording starts it schedules a new recording for the next week at the same time so that it stays in your scheduled recording list. With the 1.88.xx.x version that I have this "placeholder" is set for 9 days later. So when your show starts to record on Wednesday the 11th the scheduled recording list will show that it will be recorded again on Friday the 20th. When the guide data populates if the parameters you have it set up as match the guide then it will reschedule it for Wednesday the 18th. If there is no match in the guide it stays on the 20th and will not effect other scheduled recordings that night. You can tell a placeholder by the fact when you hit info from the scheduled recording list the description is blank. At first this was confusing but I got used and like it over the old way. Still not a perfect solution but better then the way it works for most of you.

HDPhish

01-13-06, 03:20 PM

...The comparisons to Tivo have been contentious at times, but I think we've all learned that the 8300 can record HD fairly painlessly, as you and your daughter have found, even though the interface is several steps backward. While not a Tivo, it's certainly better than the VCR it replaces and software enhancements will come, though not as fast as most of us would like. As long as it records what I ask it to, I'm happy and feel sad for those who are so into their Tivo's that they are missing some excellent HD today. :)

And HD TiVo hasn't come as fast as I would have liked... ;) ... so it's a trade-off right now.

And Thanks to Vegggas too!

thetroll76

01-15-06, 11:42 PM

This may not be the right thread for this question so I'll apologize in advance if it's not. I just got a new Samsung DLP and it has a IEEE 3394 firewire port on it and so does my SA 8300HD cable box. Can I use the firewire connection on the box to run A/V to my TV? And if I can will it be as good as HDMI? The reason I ask is because the sheet I got with my new HDMI cable lists all the different cables they carry from good connection to best and under best they have HDMI and this IEEE 3394 firewire listed. The main reason I would want to do this is because I only have one HDMI port on my TV and I would like to use that for an upconverting DVD player but I've found that the SD channels look SO much better through the HDMI, so I'm hesitant to give it up for component, but if the firewire will look just as good my problems will be solved. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

linpark

01-16-06, 11:40 AM

Having trouble connecting up my 8300 to my JVC 40k - my SARA version appears to be 1.87.xx.xx. The VCR seems to recognize the box as Explorer 830 but the picture out from the VCR seems scrambled when viewed through the component out - the composite out won't show either but it says "Tuner Explorer (xx) 830". The JVC will play a D-Theater tape just fine out of the components but I can't get an image out of the 8300 through the 40k. I know Randall Morton seems to have had success getting this to work so I'm hoping he will see this and respond with recommendations. Specifically, I'm wondering if I just don't have settings right on the VCR or am supposed to be on a specific channel.

By the way, I am located in Bradenton, Florida using Bright House Networks.

exieramos

01-16-06, 02:31 PM

I can't seem to schedule the recordings of both Scrubs episodes and Commander in Chief. Cox-San Diego SARA 1.87.16.1

I've tried all combinations of First Run, Time Slot, Any time for Scrubs but it always flags the 9:30-10:00 pm episode of Scrubs as the third recording even though the 9:00-9:30pm Scrubs would end halfway through Commander in Chief. I've even tried to schedule a Manual Recording for the Full Hour (9-10PM) for Scrubs but it still says the manual recording conflicts between 9:30-10:00 pm with Commander in Chief. Huh? How does it know that I'm trying to record both episodes of Scrubs even though I'm trying to schedule a Manual Recording. I thought Manual Recordings don't use the guide data? Anyone else have this trouble?

Dave D. Since I know you have the same SARA version as us in San Diego, could you check to see if you can perform the above without conflict? Or do you know for sure that this is really a limitation of the Firmware.

Any Tivo user's out there that can perform this programming conundrum?

DoubleDAZ

01-16-06, 03:37 PM

I didn't have any problem scheduling both episodes of Scrubs and CinC. If it lists the first episode of Scrubs and CinC along with the second episode of Scrubs as the 3 recordings that conflict with each other, then my guess is that the Start/Stop times are somehow hosed and are overlapping even though you can't see it by looking at the IPG. Have you tried cleaning out all your scheduled recordings for tomorrow night, doing a "hard" reboot, and then rescheduling them? I've run into this a few times, but I can never remember what I do to correct it other than what I've suggested. I've even had it where there wasn't a 3rd program listed at all, but I've always been able to get things fixed. Let us know if you try any of this and get things working.

FWIW, I noticed in my IPG that one program on at the same time as Scrubs ends at 9:59 (MST) and the local news begins at 9:59. This doesn't make much sense to me and simply points to something being amiss with the IPG IMHO. Like internet pages thatare cached, the IPG data might have been cashed and any sybsequent attempts to schedule these programs fails. Perhaps clearing out the cashe and reloading the software/IPG will clear things up.

exieramos

01-16-06, 05:12 PM

Dave D. Thanks for the tip! It worked! First, I cleared out all of my Tues scheduled recordings then I tried to re-schedule Scrubs and CinC. That didn't work. So then I did the Hard Reboot. That did the trick! FYI, when I had this scheduling problem, it would only show Scrubs 9:30-10pm as being in conflict with CinC. The 9-9:30pm was ok-it didn't show up in the conflict screen. When I did the programming for that scenario, it was Time Slot and Any Time. When I re-scheduled after deleting all scheduled programs for Tues, I used First Run. That time it showed both Scrubs episiodes as being in conflict with CinC. Maybe that will help you figure out what causes this problem. What I really don't get is why I couldn't program using the Manual Recording option. The DVR should have only seen two programs being recorded in the same time slot at 9-10pm. The Manual Recording and CinC. Before I rebooted, it gave me the same conflicts as when I used the guide to schedule. Does the Manual Recording option still use the Guide Data? If so, then why is it that when you do schedule a manual recording and it records as programed, it shows up in the list as "Manual Recording" instead of the title and info of the program actually recorded.

Again, thanks for the solution!

DoubleDAZ

01-16-06, 05:31 PM

Always glad to be able to help.

I don't think a manual recording actually uses the IPG, I think it simply uses whatever is already in the schedule to determine conflicts. It does use the IPG to highlight the timeslot though. Since the 8300 only showed Scrubs as being in conflict, there was something hidden, perhaps in the cashe, causing the actual conflict and even a manual recording would be caught up in the error. Clearing it out with the reboot obviously did the trick.

I thought it might have something to do with back-to-back episdoes, but I rarely record half-hour sitcoms, much less back-to-back episodes. If I run into this again, I think I'll make a note of what I see in the IPG and the conflict display for future reference, but I think it's simply something hosed in the IPG or the data when it gets picked up by the 8300 for comparison, etc. Did you notice any programs in your IPG being off-schedule, like ending at :59 instead of :00?

exieramos

01-16-06, 06:08 PM

Dave D, I also got some help at my local forum (it's unfortunate that you don't post there anymore-Come Back! :o ). It was suggested to do the same (Hard Reboot) but also some insight as to why I had the problem in the first place. Apparently American Idol (which I don't normally watch) has started up again. This knocked out my Season pass to House which is in the same time slot as Scrubs and CiC. I forgot about that since the guide was not showing red during that time slot on Fox. If House was actually showing, then I would have immediately seen the problem. Unfortunate that the Conflict screen did not accurately show all three programs actually causing the conflict.

So when do you think SARA OS 1.5 will be deployed so that we can get all of these bugs fixed?

DoubleDAZ

01-16-06, 06:34 PM

I just don't have the time these days to participate in that many forums (too much HD to watch :) ), but maybe I'll check back in with the San Diego forum. For the record, I didn't leave because of anyone and I do check in from time to time still, but I got involved with some other stuff and time is at a premium.

I actually was going to ask you about American Idol and House because I had a feeling that might be the problem. As has been pointed out before, the 8300 does not do a very good job of determining actual recordings until the start time is reached. Had you tried to schedule Scrubs after Idol started, it's quite possible it would have taken then.

I don't know if that is being addressed in OS 1.5 or not, but I understand 1.5 has been delayed slightly due, in part I believe, to the problems identified in SARA 1.88.x.x for Cablevision. However, it looks like it still might make a Q1 release to the cableco's for testing and then full release shortly after that. Though it can't come too soon, I'd rather have it work than simply introduce new bugs. I also understand that SA was finally advised of the Copy To VCR problems and those should also be fixed in 1.5, though there are no guarantees as I have no direct line to SA, just a little bird that whispers in my ear from time to time. :)

marchristensen

01-17-06, 10:24 AM

I am just setting up a Panny 30ES DVD recorder and trying to get the Copy to VCR function working. So far when I run the Copy to VCR nothing gets recorded. I am using composite (yellow, red, white) from 8300's Out2 going to the DVD recorder's IN1.

I run the Copy to VCR function and it runs to completion, but there is no recording on the DVD disk. The only way I know the Copy to VCR function is running is by selecting the recorded show from the LIST and I see the option to STOP Copy to VCR. I am able to record directly to the DVD disk from the cable signal. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

RemyM

01-17-06, 10:30 AM

DoubleDAZ,
You're correct, SA still has issues with the 1.88.xx.x. Every time they fix something they break something else. The latest problems are a scrolling issue in the lists, which is just window dressing, HDMI not working for some TV's and having to switch to the DVR channel to resume an in progress play back. I can deal with those, I still feel that the good out weighs the bad in our current version. One of these days SA will get it all together.

yazdawg

01-17-06, 10:44 AM

Sorry if this problem has been addressed before but 64 pages is too much to read completely.

My problem with the 8300HD is that the picture format is often reset to 480i even on HD Channels despite my attempts at setting the STB via advanced (or easy) setup. I have the 8300HD connected to a Sony 50"XBR via HDMI cable, with audio output to a Sony Home Theater receiver via optical audio cable. My cable provider is Adelphia.

One recurring stimulus for picture format reset is changing the input to TV from cable box to DVD even though the 8300HD isn't touched. BUT, it occurs at other times too, when switched on, after channel changes from HD programming to SD shows and back again. I have set the picture format switch at times from HDMI to upconvert-1 or -2 and the HD signal will hold while I am watching for a while but then may revert to 480i. At times the HD box has the HD light lit while reporting 480i on the display (and viewable on the TV as 480i inpiut as well).

I have exchanged boxes at Adelphia and am having the same problem with this box too.

Any help would be appreciated as I am frequently resetting the setup wizard to watch any HD programming in eihter 1080i or 720p.

qkslvr

01-17-06, 07:01 PM

SeanRiddle

01-17-06, 09:17 PM

SeanRiddle

01-17-06, 09:30 PM

SeanRiddle

01-17-06, 09:42 PM

My wife asked me a question that I don't know the answer to- when we schedule a show we see it in the "Scheduled recordings" list if it is going to be on during the next week (or 9 days, whatever the guide has). But what if that show isn't on during that time period- how do I delete that recording? What if the show gets cancelled and it is never on again? We've had ReplayTVs for 6 years, so we understand the importance of keeping the scheduled recording list cleaned up, but how do you do that in this case?

Also, I was surprised tonight when CSI started recording. We have it set up to record "all episodes in this time slot", but CSI's normal night is Thursday. So "time slot" must mean that time period, regardless of the day of the week. I'd argue that "time slot" means a specific day and time.

Sean

DoubleDAZ

01-17-06, 10:04 PM

SeanRiddle

01-18-06, 01:19 AM

My list shows old schedules based on the last day there was a successful recording. I recently deleted some left over from last summer and last month, so my list is currently up to date.

You got it, time slot means just that. They don't offer the daily, weekly, and other options you typically find on a VCR. I guess they figure it's easy enough to erase unwanted recordings. The problem this causes though is that you can end up trying to record 3 or more programs at the same time as the schedules fluctuate, like they often do on some of the cable channels, then you end up with nothing. That's why it's important to double-check your schedules, particularly if you use the timeslot option.
Dave-
Thanks for the info on the old schedules. I think that we've scheduled some shows that aren't showing up in the "Scheduled Recordings" screen, but it could be user error. At this time nothing is showing up before 1/18, but maybe everything we've scheduled is going to be on this week. I'll take some notes that I can refer back to later for comparison.

I'm not sure I understand part of your post "it's important to double-check your schedules, particularly if you use the timeslot option" - won't there be *more* conflicts if we choose "all episodes at any time"?

I'm just not at the same level of confidence in the 8300 that I have with my Replays. I understand the fundamental difference between the two, and I don't think I'm expecting too much of the 8300. The difficulties last week with the back-to-back Scrubs and Lost episodes definitely hurt. My current level is "the 8300 is neat, but all must-have recordings are also put into one of the Replays". It's better to watch one episode of Lost in SD than miss it!

I can't wait for more competition in this area. SA has no reason to spend more on R&D, bug fixes and licensing of patented features while they've got a virtual lock on the market.

Sean

vegggas

01-18-06, 03:33 AM

Dave-
<snip>I'm not sure I understand part of your post "it's important to double-check your schedules, particularly if you use the timeslot option" - won't there be *more* conflicts if we choose "all episodes at any time"?
<snip>
Sean
The "all episodes - this timeslot" will cause conflicts because it's trying to reserve a Specific Timeslot over and over again daily. I highly reccomend NOT using this method unless you are recording a daily afternoon show that repeats over and over again. Think like VH1 with massive repeats of the same show several times through the day, but you only want one at a specific time.
The "all episodes - any time" will record the same named show whenever it's on.
The "all episodes - new only" is the safest recording if it's available, and will only record new episodes.
There is always the record once option when networks are playing roulette with programming.

vegggas

Brighton Line

01-18-06, 08:37 AM

This is only happening on Standard Definition channels not any of the HD channels, I get a line across the very top of my Dell W3201 that shimmies. It also appears on recorded Standard Def tv. Depending on the color background it is very noticeable to you have to look hard to see it (black colors).
All HD channels are fine, actually fantastic.
This appears on HDMI as well as Componet but I do not see it on the componet connection on my DVD player or the HDMI (DVI/HDMI) from the computer. The 8300HD is in Auto mode and all the modes are enabled.
Any ideas?

Beaker1024

01-18-06, 08:49 AM

....
The "all episodes - new only" is the safest recording if it's available, and will only record new episodes.
....

vegggas

Vegggas - I have never used this option even though I agree with your assesment completely. My concern is that my local area headend doesn't have the "new episode" tag / flag on the guide information and I can not see where to find out if they do have it setup correctly. So without the flags being properly I use the "All episodes - this time slot" so it doesn't record all the reairing and I get the new episode. Yes this does require being careful and noticing when the channels do stupid rearrangements of the show (CSI playing old then new in the next hour, etc...)

How can we tell if the "New Only" flag is there ont he guide so that using this option works correctly?

Paul Simoneau

01-18-06, 10:45 AM

Vegggas - I have never used this option even though I agree with your assesment completely. My concern is that my local area headend doesn't have the "new episode" tag / flag on the guide information and I can not see where to find out if they do have it setup correctly. So without the flags being properly I use the "All episodes - this time slot" so it doesn't record all the reairing and I get the new episode. Yes this does require being careful and noticing when the channels do stupid rearrangements of the show (CSI playing old then new in the next hour, etc...)

How can we tell if the "New Only" flag is there ont he guide so that using this option works correctly?

Join the club. No "new only" recordings here, either. I've resigned myself to the fact that it's better for the 8300 to record too much (and delete dupes manually later) than for it to record too little (and miss a show). It's a pain in the butt, for sure, but it's the only way this box can function as a reasonable facsimile of a real DVR.

vegggas

01-18-06, 11:40 AM

Beaker1024,
New first run flag is enabled if it's in your selection on the DVR. If the IPG does not have this info, it won't be an option. Try it if you have it.

Brighton Line,
That line is the line 21 closed caption video stream. Normally, a standard TV will not show this data because of CRT overscan. Because you have a display with no overscan, you will see this data on some channels that display closed captions. There is nothing wrong with the STB, it is sending the data to the display, as required. You may or may not have an adjustment for overscan to "hide" the flaws of NTSC broadcasts, like the CC line, or end of video on the sides of 4x3 broadcasts, etc.

yazdawg,
Either stop using AUTO HDMI (The TV is resetting the acceptable format resolution) or enable ALL 4 available SD resolutions so that when the TV shuts off (forces a command to the STB that asks for 480i) or goes to a SD channel, the STB has a choice of what to do. Without a resolution pre-defined and selected to upconvert, the STB will default to 480i.

vegggas

yazdawg

01-18-06, 08:07 PM

Hey vegggas thx for the help...but problem still exists despite attempting both fixes...changing the picture format to fixed and later making sure that all picture formats are enabled as options for HD and SD.

The Adelphia guy was out too, he couldn't fix the reset of cable box to SD (480i), so I guess that when I want to watch HD I will often have to reset the 8300 picture format from scratch.

The Sony XBR set must instruct the cable box somehow to reset when the TV is turned off or a different video input is selected. Do you think there might be an answer for this on a different section of the site?

vegggas

01-18-06, 09:36 PM

<SNIP>
The Sony XBR set must instruct the cable box somehow to reset when the TV is turned off or a different video input is selected. Do you think there might be an answer for this on a different section of the site?
The HDMI from the TV is sending out a NULL signal for the video resolution compatibility. The STB will default to a standard 480i signal if the incoming resolution type is not one of the standard 480/720/1080 signals. switching to component will solve the problem.
Check the HDMI link in my sig for similar problems.

SeanRiddle

01-18-06, 10:09 PM

The "all episodes - this timeslot" will cause conflicts because it's trying to reserve a Specific Timeslot over and over again daily. I highly reccomend NOT using this method unless you are recording a daily afternoon show that repeats over and over again. Think like VH1 with massive repeats of the same show several times through the day, but you only want one at a specific time.
The "all episodes - any time" will record the same named show whenever it's on.
The "all episodes - new only" is the safest recording if it's available, and will only record new episodes.
There is always the record once option when networks are playing roulette with programming.

vegggas
Vegggas-

Thanks. Your post agrees with my logic:
all episodes - any time - most potential conflicts
all episodes - this time slot - middle
all episodes - new only - least potential conflicts

I just expected "this time slot" to mean time *and day*. Now I know better.

I'm still frustrated by some quirks- I set the first of 2 Scrubs to record last week and padded it 30 extra minutes. It worked this time, but the next scheduled recording just showed 30 minutes. Again, when I tried to edit the recording, I couldn't change the padding. I had to delete it and reenter it with the extra 30 minutes.

Sean

vegggas

01-18-06, 10:32 PM

Vegggas-

Thanks. Your post agrees with my logic:
all episodes - any time - most potential conflicts
all episodes - this time slot - middle
all episodes - new only - least potential conflicts

I just expected "this time slot" to mean time *and day*. Now I know better.

I'm still frustrated by some quirks- I set the first of 2 Scrubs to record last week and padded it 30 extra minutes. It worked this time, but the next scheduled recording just showed 30 minutes. Again, when I tried to edit the recording, I couldn't change the padding. I had to delete it and reenter it with the extra 30 minutes.

Sean
IMO,
All eps -This TIme Slot = Most conflicts if done in primetime because it locks up that timeslot EVERYDAY and always creates conflicts for every upcoming show in that slot.
All eps - Anytime = Better for primetime because most shows are not showing everyday and will only cause conflicts ONCE a week. This gets worse for daily shows that are repeated like the dedicated half hour sitcom niche channels.

For Scrubs, just highlight the show in the grid, press select, record and select record once. The scrubs two-fer won't be common in the upcoming weeks, so make it one time recording. Doesn't create conflicts and you know it's going to record. Always works for me...

vegggas

Dishiki

01-18-06, 10:51 PM

Okay, bear with me guys. I had my first HDTV ever delivered yesterday. After reading through 15 pages of this thread I am unable to find any answers. I am in the Albany, Ny area. I just got the TW SA 8300HDDVR hooked up. Anything in HD looks amazing. Anything that is in SD I am unable to stretch. It will not let me do it. When I hit the wide button on my TV (Maxent 50x3) my options are 4:3 or 16:9. The manual says that if I have a hookup via compnonent or HDMI then I cna only select 4:3 or 16:9; if I have it hooked up via S-video or composite, then I can also select Zoom 1 or Zoom 2. It is hooked up via compnonet cable. When I am on regular SD and hit the wide and it goes to 4:3 I get a double set of bars, the gray ones form TW and the black ones from the tv, and the picture is vertically compressed. I thought there was a way to stretch the 4:3 shows. Any ideas? I also tried to go in the picture menu on my tv to do it, but only gave me 4:3 and 16:9 also. Again HD looks phenomenal.

Also, how do I set settings on the cable box. I wasn't given a manual. Right now when I switch source inputs, the tv is set at 1080i (component 1 says 1080i). Is that preferred? Is the tv doing the switching or the cable box. Again, a complete newbie here when it comes ot this stuff so bear with me. I am unable to get into the setting on the 8300 to choose 720p, 1080i, 420p, or 420i. What should I be choosing, and how can i choose it? One last thing, if I goto a 4:3 channel then go into the 8300 menu, and select stretch, it gets rid of the bars. I switch to a HD channel it is still stretched. Shouldn't it auto back to normal?

SeanRiddle

01-18-06, 11:26 PM

IMO,
All eps -This TIme Slot = Most conflicts if done in primetime because it locks up that timeslot EVERYDAY and always creates conflicts for every upcoming show in that slot.
All eps - Anytime = Better for primetime because most shows are not showing everyday and will only cause conflicts ONCE a week. This gets worse for daily shows that are repeated like the dedicated half hour sitcom niche channels.

For Scrubs, just highlight the show in the grid, press select, record and select record once. The scrubs two-fer won't be common in the upcoming weeks, so make it one time recording. Doesn't create conflicts and you know it's going to record. Always works for me...

vegggas
Vegggas-

I don't get that- if I'm looking for a show any time any day, isn't that going to have more conflicts than looking just at a specific time slot on any day? Or are you saying that "all eps - this time slot" looks at every day but "all eps - anytime" only looks at a particular day of the week?

Last week there were 2 Scrubs. I highlighted the first one and hit record, then highlighted the 2nd and hit record. The first one was not in "scheduled recordings". I went back and highlighted the first and hit record and the 2nd one was not in "scheduled recordings". I tried to edit the first one to add 30 extra minutes and it wouldn't let me. I deleted it and re-added it with 30 extra minutes, and it worked fine. Today when I looked at the next scheduled recording, it was just 30 minutes long- it did not have my extra 30 minute padding. Again I tried to edit it and could not, and had to delete it and re-enter it.

I haven't had any problems until the 2-in-a-row Lost and Scrubs episodes last week. Otherwise, dozens of recordings have worked well. I wish there were more options, but if it will just record what I ask it to, I can live with it for now. I know ReplayTV has spoiled me, and I'd willingly purchase an HD version if they had one, but I don't think that will happen. So I'll wait for HD Tivo or maybe set up a PC DVR.

Thanks-

Sean

Dishiki

01-18-06, 11:46 PM

Okay I've been fiddling sans manual and this what I've discovered. I've pm'ed a member here asking form help, so am going to copy and paste it here to see if you guys have any help. Thanks
Was hoping you could maybe help me. I was scrolling threads and one of your posts lead me in the right direction. Was finally able to get into the setup menu thanks to you.

I just got TW installed today with the 8300 HD DVR with SARA software. I wasn't here when the cable guy set it up. I get home, and everything defaults to 1080i. HD looks great, but SD gives me gray bars. I am hooked up via component, and my TV (Maxent 50X3) only let me selects 4:3 or 16:9 though compononent. When watching regular SD, if through my TV remote I try to flip, switching to 4:3 gives me two sets of bars. So I know I don't want that.

Next I start fiddling with my menus through the 8300. My first menu gave me sizing options of normal, stretch, zoom 1, zoom 2. When I go into the sub menu, I see that it is set to fixed. When I set it to Pass through, I couldn't stretch anything, just normal, zoom 1 or zoom 2. I don't know if I should do upconvert 1 or 2.

Anyway, everything was at 1080i. So I was searching and asking, and came across your thread. I went in and activated everything. When 480i normal and 480i widescreen popped up the picture was awful, but I accepted it anyway. So I have 1080i, 720p, 4801i normal, 480i wide, 480p normal, 480p wide set up. So I go back to TV. Fixed seems to do nothing for me. Pass through gave me 480i for SD channels and it was awful.

So finally I've gone in and changed it to 1080i, 720p, 480p normal, 480p wide set up, since 480i was unwatchable. If I put it on pass-through, HD channels appear to be outputted in 1080i, SD is being output in 480p, but it is stretched. If I goto my tv remote and switch from 16:9 to 4:3 then it'll give me the bars. Is this the setting I want it on? Passthrough with 1080, 720, and 480p? What's 480i for? Didn't mean to send such a long post, but am just really confused.

SeanRiddle

01-19-06, 12:25 AM

vegggas

01-19-06, 01:36 AM

I don't get that- if I'm looking for a show any time any day, isn't that going to have more conflicts than looking just at a specific time slot on any day? Or are you saying that "all eps - this time slot" looks at every day but "all eps - anytime" only looks at a particular day of the week?
Sean

Recording "Scrubs" Any time of day looks at the IPG to schedule a recording based on that name. If Scrubs comes on once in the following week, it will only try to reserve that timeslot called Scrubs next week and no more; thereby not having any conflicts throughout the week. Recording ESPN's "Sportscenter" this way, however may create problems if it plays every few hours everyday, causing a lot of reservations.
Recording by timeslot for scrubs, say 8:00 - 9:00 reserves only that time slot everyday and will potentially not allow you reserve any thing else that comes on at that time, inlcuding Scrubs because you don't see it highlighted and try ti record it again. Say you want to record American Idol and E-Ring at 8:00 next week , but your "reserved" timeslot is already reserving a tuner to record that timeslot. You are SOL trying to set up a recording in advance. Timeslots prevent advanced recordings because of this reservation, but you can't see the reservation. etting rid of timeslot recording solves a LOT of problems. Check your scheduled recordings to see if any are based on this.

Dishiki,
Welcome to HD. Now with a better display you will notice how bad analog Standard Def actually looks (it's actually 480i) being digitized and stretched and scaled to match your display. You do know that you can stretch the 4x3 SD with the DVR instead of the TV if you want to, right?
There is no right way to view anything, it depends on your taste. If you have a display technology that can have burn-in, then you probably want to stretch the image to cover the screen to prevent burn-in.

vegggas

telemike

01-19-06, 06:41 AM

Sorry, I don't stretch any SD (I hate the way it looks), but here's a link to the manual. You have to sign up for the "Explorer eClub", but it's pretty painless.

http://www.scientificatlanta.com/consumers_new/CableBoxes/8300hd.htm

Sean

The # key on the cable remote will stretch the picture. Leave the TV set at 1080i input. Try setting the cable box back to 1080i FIXED and use the cable remote to stretch the SD channels.

marchristensen

01-19-06, 08:36 AM

I've just accepted that there is a problem with Scrubs in the schedule. I could not get both episodes to Record Any Day in This Time Period either. If I got one to stick in the schedule the other one was removed. I solved by making one Any Day in This Time Period and making the second one a one time recording. Just one of a zillion recording problems with this unit. Having said that, HD recordings are still amazing. I have learned to work around the problems.

Dishiki

01-19-06, 02:51 PM

yazdawg

01-19-06, 10:25 PM

The HDMI from the TV is sending out a NULL signal for the video resolution compatibility. The STB will default to a standard 480i signal if the incoming resolution type is not one of the standard 480/720/1080 signals. switching to component will solve the problem.
Check the HDMI link in my sig for similar problems.

BINGO!!! I took off the HDMI, used component and the damn thing works just fine. Thx Vegggas, your help was very much appreciated. :)

After reading about the HDMI problems I am beginning to wish that I hadn't tried to use that technology at all, only benefit I'm getting from the HDMI cable is that I switched my upconverting DVD player (Toshiba) to HDMI and now I am ostensibly watching the DVDs in 1080i.

DoubleDAZ

01-19-06, 11:13 PM

I've tried to press the # key on the remote and it will not stretch an image. I don't know what is going on. Also, why would I want to leave it at 1080i fixed? I thought setting to passthrough and letting the TV convert the station to it's proper resolution would be the way to go.If you are simply trying to get your TV to stretch SD channels to eliminate the side bars, here is some info for you to consider.

SD channels are 480i, Music channels are 480p, and HD channels are 720p (ABC, FOX, ESPN) or 1080i (all others). There is absolutely no reason to enable any resolution that you don't use, particularly 480i wide, 480p wide, and 720p. If you prefer the PQ of 480p over 480i, there is also no reason that I know of to enable 480i.

So, why not try enabling just 480p and 1080i? Set the option to Pass-Through and see what that gets you. With these settings, your TV should be able to stretch the SD channels (480p) to eliminate the side bars and your HD channels (1080i) should okay.

With only 1080i enabled or the option set to Fixed, the only 8300 stretch options you get are Normal, Zoom1 and Zoom2. This is because even though there are side bars, the image is already 16x9 and the bars are part of the image. Many (most) HDTVs cannot stretch a 16x9 image, so you are stuck looking at the bars with these settings.

With 480p (or 480i) enabled and the option set to Pass-Through, the side bars on the SD channels are NOT part of the image and it can now be stretched.

vegggas

01-19-06, 11:40 PM

For any setting other than Fixed, especially with HDMI or DVI you need 480i to be enabled. All upconverted settings need to know how to handle the 480i signal (upconvert to 480p). If left with passthrough, there is no specific instruction on what to do with 480i, wether it's upconvert to 480p, 720p or 1080i, so it gets stuck unless specifically told what to do with that signal.
With digital connections, the null default resolution is forced by the display, when off, to output 480i from the STB. This is especially true if the Display does not allow 480i over HDMI - It specifically tells the STB not to output 480i (unless display is off with null), and when on it can force a 480i signal, to the default native resolution of the display panel, which is usually non-standard DTV output resolution (think 1366x768, etc) which confuses the STB.
Confused - me too, as well as the display manufacturers.

vegggas

schex

01-20-06, 12:04 AM

Dishiki - try resetting the box - mine didn't work at first either but after unplugging and resetting - the cable box stretch modes worked as described

telemike

01-20-06, 06:48 AM

BINGO!!! I took off the HDMI, used component and the damn thing works just fine. Thx Vegggas, your help was very much appreciated. :)

After reading about the HDMI problems I am beginning to wish that I hadn't tried to use that technology at all, only benefit I'm getting from the HDMI cable is that I switched my upconverting DVD player (Toshiba) to HDMI and now I am ostensibly watching the DVDs in 1080i.

More and more I read about HDMI, I loathe it's problems. Seems it was released to early to appease certain industry groups DRM.

DoubleDAZ

01-20-06, 08:43 AM

vegggas, I'm confused too, more by his posts than by enabling 480i vs 480p though.

I get home, and everything defaults to 1080i. HD looks great, but SD gives me gray bars. I am hooked up via component, and my TV (Maxent 50X3) only let me selects 4:3 or 16:9 though compononent. When watching regular SD, if through my TV remote I try to flip, switching to 4:3 gives me two sets of bars. So I know I don't want that.This tells me that only 1080i is enabled or option is set to Fixed.
Next I start fiddling with my menus through the 8300. My first menu gave me sizing options of normal, stretch, zoom 1, zoom 2. When I go into the sub menu, I see that it is set to fixed.Okay, this says Fixed and sizing options are correct.
When I set it to Pass through, I couldn't stretch anything, just normal, zoom 1 or zoom 2. I don't know if I should do upconvert 1 or 2.This tells me only 1080i is enabled, so Pass-Through setting doesn't change anything regarding sizing options.
Anyway, everything was at 1080i. So I was searching and asking, and came across your thread. I went in and activated everything. When 480i normal and 480i widescreen popped up the picture was awful, but I accepted it anyway. So I have 1080i, 720p, 4801i normal, 480i wide, 480p normal, 480p wide set up. So I go back to TV. Fixed seems to do nothing for me. Pass through gave me 480i for SD channels and it was awful.

So finally I've gone in and changed it to 1080i, 720p, 480p normal, 480p wide set up, since 480i was unwatchable. If I put it on pass-through, HD channels appear to be outputted in 1080i, SD is being output in 480p, but it is stretched.Here is where I get lost. SD is stretched and I thought that was the goal. Doesn't say if the 8300 is set to Stretch mode or if TV is doing the stretching.
If I go to my tv remote and switch from 16:9 to 4:3 then it'll give me the bars.Why switch to 4:3 to get the bars back when the goal was to stretch SD? Sounds to me like it's finally right (except for 480i vs 480p and 480p wide). Leave the TV at 16:9. I suppose he could add 480i and then use Upconvert 1 (?) to get to 480p more smoothly with none of the problems you mention.

Dishiki

01-20-06, 09:07 AM

Sorry I was confusing. Your posts have helped immensely. The problem I was initially having was that when it was 1080i and fixed, I'd have grey bars on SD, unless I went in everytime and switched from normal to stretch (still can't get the # button working).

I think ultimately what I have, aside form the 480i vs 480p thing, works best, but still comments are welcome. Having 1080i, 720p, and 480p enabled, and the set top set to pass through minimizes my need to manually switch things. The TV is set to 16:9. Having this and Pass through on eliminates the bars in SD (TV does the stretching), and gives me a great HD picture. The issue I was having by having the cable box do the stretching was that I had to switch from stretch to normal if I went from SD to HD. By letting the TV do it, it automatically converts it, when it switches from 480p to 1080i or 720p.

Is there a reason not to enable 720p, Dave. I know you suggested that in an earlier post? Don't I want channels that are native 720p to be 720p, or having them converted to 1080i really doesn't matter?

iontyre

01-20-06, 10:52 AM

wantcd

01-20-06, 11:23 AM

DEIFan

01-20-06, 01:19 PM

I don't understand why anyone would EVER have 480i enabled. Why not just use 480p so that all 480i signals are upgraded to 480p?

Ok, maybe if you are outputting to a SD TV as well as an HDTV, but if you are using an HDTV only, why would you want 480i enabled?

Because the 8300's 480i to 480p conversion is not nearly as good as my Pioneer Elite's de-interlacer, as well as the fact some older HD sets will not stretch 480p. Also, anyone using an outboard scaler would prefer 480i out for the same reasoning.

brigont

01-20-06, 05:29 PM

vegggas

01-20-06, 07:15 PM

Depends on many varibles.
Try it and see. Only YOU will know with your setup, on your display.

vegggas

TerryB

01-20-06, 07:49 PM

brigont,
The good news is it's a lot cheaper to try out component than to try out HDMI, unless you have a run requiring custom cables.

TerryB

DoubleDAZ

01-20-06, 07:58 PM

Sorry I was confusing.Not a problem, that's what replies are for, to clarify things. :)
Is there a reason not to enable 720p, Dave.Yes, but it is not because there is anything wrong with 720p. If you enable both 720p and 1080i and use Pass-Through, your TV will have to reformat every time you tune from CBS to ABC to NBC to FOX to PBS to ESPN, etc. Many folks are annoyed by this and most don't see any difference with 720p enabled or not on those channels that are 720p. You can enable 720p, do some tuning and comparing to see if there is any difference in PQ (especially for live sports) or if the reformatting bothers you.

DoubleDAZ

01-20-06, 08:04 PM

I don't understand why anyone would EVER have 480i enabled. Why not just use 480p so that all 480i signals are upgraded to 480p?Because some folks using DVI and HDMI have problems with the STB getting stuck and not switching back to 1080i on the HD channels. Enabling 480i has helped in these cases for the reasons vegggas cited. If you don't have a problem, don't enable it, just be aware in case you have a problem in the future.

DoubleDAZ

01-20-06, 08:13 PM

When I setup my stb to use 480i and 1080i and turn on the auto switching with an HDMI connection I still get bars on sd channels. I thought when you set it up this way the bars do not show up on sd channels. The only way I can get rid of the bars is to use fixed 1080i and stretch the picture with the # button.Setting it up this way should allow your TV to automatically stretch the image to get rid of the bars. SD is 4:3 and there will be bars unless you use the 8300's or your TV's stretch modes. Many folks prefer their TV's. Using Fixed 1080i cuts off an awful lot of the image top and bottom whereas many TVs use a mode that leaves the middle of the screen pretty much intact and stretchs more at the sides. The only way to know which you prefer is to try both.

DoubleDAZ

01-20-06, 08:22 PM

brigont, the box should have come with a set of component cables, so all you have to do is connect them and see for yourself. Many folks with CRT-based displays won't see much, if any, difference. Those with digital displays may fair better, but like vegggas says, there are a lot of variables that affect final PQ.

Douglas_B

01-21-06, 10:52 AM

Cablevision - NJ customer...
------------

Guys... what is the consensus on highest picture quality.

I may need to switch my hookup from HDMI to component and am trying to determine if there will be any loss of PQ...

Are we getting better PQ via HDMI or Component?
Is there any difference in SD and HD PQ via HDMI or Component?

The SB can be fixed to a specific output (I have been running mine on HDMI 720p). Can this be done on the Component input as well?

All Ramblings on this topic will be welcome...

Brian

Brian,

I would appreciate if you could post (or PM) roughly where in NJ you live. I'm interested in knowing if it's likely that my unit's HDMI connection is active/functional, as it appears that it may be a regional thing from a Cablevision perspective. I'll try to get through to tech support as well. As I probably have an issue with my display accepting an HDCP connection and the likelihood that it can be remedied with a new board (so says another AVS forum), I'd like to have a warm fuzzy that my 8300HD DVR's HDMI out may actually function before losing my display for a month. As I am in the process of rearranging some stuff in my viewing room, being able to use the HDMI output will be very advantageous.

Thanks.

Doug

MarketingProf

01-21-06, 10:57 AM

Two minor points based on my experience...

1. I personally could see no difference of HDMI over component going into a Fujitsu P50 plasma at 8 feet back, and the headaches were not worth it to me. I don't think there will be significant PQ differences except on the very best, highest quality signals (and possibly with screens larger than 50").

2. I do see a definite increase in quality when I shift from CBS (1080i) to ABC (720p), however, is it due to the difference in resolution, or the quality of the signal? For some reason, I believe it is the latter. Possibly because I notice greater differences in PQ among different channels with the same resolution than between channels with different resolutions. Also, my P50 just may be a little better at rescaling a 720p picture vs. a 1080i feed, but I really don't think so. Nonetheless, the 2-3 seconds for reformatting is not bothersome to me.

Seems like I'm always the odd man out on these subjective judgments. Maybe I should bring in a fresh pair of eyes. :D

neilk2350

01-21-06, 11:34 AM

davehancock

01-21-06, 12:24 PM

MarketingProf,

That may be because your set really can't resolve much beyond 720p. I believe it is has 768 lines of vertical resolution (720 is scaled up to 768 and 1080 is scaled down to 768).

neilk2350,

I ran into a similar problem earlier this week with a customer in Buffalo. He had a Denon 3806 receiver and wanted to run the HDMI from his 8300HD and from his Sony upconverting DVD player through the Denon to his Panny plasma. A direct HDMI connect from the 8300 to the display worked OK, but the 8300 refused to work through the Denon. Tech support at Denon told me that both SA and Motorola HD boxes refuse to work with the Denon. He went on to explain that the Denon cross converts the HDMI digital to analog (component) and visa versa and in order to do that and properly implement HDCP that the Denon must retain control of the various handshakes that take place. The problem is that these cable boxes also want to retain control and won't relinquish it. Thus there is a standoff. I suspect that you might be having a similar issue with the Yamaha.

neilk2350

01-21-06, 01:01 PM

get this, its crazier than that. i have two setups. one in the den and one in the bedroom. the bedroom is set up with a stb 8300hd and a yamaha 4600 and a denon hdmi upconverting dvd player. it works perfectly switching HDMI.

in the den i have the same thing, the only difference is i have a yamaha 2600. yamaha claims that the reason the 4600 works is that it is not[U] compliant with current HDMI specs. since the 2600 is current it wont work. they claim the 2600 is a repeater (no analog to digital) and it will work only if i get the 8300hd to HDMI 1.2. my head is spinning

TerryB

01-21-06, 08:35 PM

nielk2350,
Yes, the 8300HD is upgradable. There are firmware revisions being used to solve many issues. I have not seen anyone posting that they have seen an upgrade of the HDMI version. That's the problem with standards, they just keep changing. LOL

I'm afraid you won't be able to make SA or your cableco produce an HDMI revision they don't possess.

TerryB

DoubleDAZ

01-21-06, 10:25 PM

Just to clarify things a little. Even though the 8300 is upgradeable, it's not anything you do. If the cableco has a new version of software, they will push it to your 8300 and oftentimes you will not even know it. If a new HDMI standard gets incorporated into the software, I'm sure someone will post about it long before your cableco gets it. The best thing to do is keep up with the 8300 threads for the latest news.

I'm sure Yamaha is correct in what they are telling you about the difference between the 4600 and 2600. Back in the old days of the VCR, many units could bypass copy-protection simply because they were made before standards were defined and included in newer units. However, even if the 8300 had HDMI 1.2, SA's implementation could still cause problems. Many HDTVs are HDCP compliant and still have difficulties because of the way different companies implemented the specs. I don't know enough about it all, but it seems there is too much flexibility in the standards causing incompatibilities between devices.

The bottomline though seems to be that you need to find an alternative for your setup. :)

srothkin

01-21-06, 10:54 PM

If I want to stop watching a show in the middle and pick up at the same place on another day, how do I do that? I tried simply pressing stop and then turning off the box. When I went back to the show, it started from the beginning again (though maybe this had something to do with losing power in between?).

DoubleDAZ

01-21-06, 11:14 PM

wantcd

01-21-06, 11:39 PM

SeanRiddle

01-22-06, 12:12 AM

Ok, I just stopped the recording I was watching, turned off the 8300, turned it back on, tuned to the DVR channel (800), and pressed Start. As expected, the recording started from where it had stopped.

So, you either re-selected the recording from the list, which resets the begin point, or the power outage reset it. If you simply tune to your DVR channel when turning the 8300 back on, the recording should still be at the point where it was stopped. Of course, you can avoid having to tune to the DVR channel by selecting General Settings/Viewer:Power On/Last Channel. :)

Be advised though that this only works if you don't watch another recording in between. The 8300 does not retain position markers for individual recordings.
Power outages and reboots definitely do reset the position.

Thanks for the tip on going to the DVR channel (which is 950 here) to continue watching from where you hit stop. If you don't power off, you can restart where you stopped from the "Recorded List", but if you power off, you can only watch from the beginning from the "Recorded List".

Sean

srothkin

01-22-06, 09:33 AM

So, you either re-selected the recording from the list, which resets the begin point, or the power outage reset it. If you simply tune to your DVR channel when turning the 8300 back on, the recording should still be at the point where it was stopped. Of course, you can avoid having to tune to the DVR channel by selecting General Settings/Viewer:Power On/Last Channel. :)

That's what I did :(

I was testing my new harmony remote so I was making sure I could tune everything.

Also in between I had checked my scheduled recordings list and added some new recordings via the guide. (It was about a week between viewing the first part and coming back to view the rest).

So there's no way to choose between playing from start or last viewed point like on my replay tv?

TerryB

01-22-06, 09:44 AM

srothkin,
Sure there is, you choose by going to the menu to start again or to the playback channel to continue from the last point viewed.

TerryB

srothkin

01-22-06, 11:34 AM

Let me rephrase:

So there's no way when playing a recording from the list to choose between playing from start or last viewed point like on my replay tv? I can't leave a lower priority recorded program in the middle to watch a higher priority one and then later reselect the earlier one and pickup where I left off?

DoubleDAZ

01-22-06, 11:50 AM

srothkin

01-22-06, 01:29 PM

Shows like Alias, American Idol, Dancing with the stars, we like to watch as soon as we can, and we usually finish watching one show completely and erase it before going on to watch another show.

But we also sometimes record concerts and awards shows. We typically watch those when that's all thats left on the DVR. Sometimes we'll watch part of such a show and then run out of time so we just leave it. The next time we come back there's another show, so we come back to the concert at a later time.

Also, compare it not just to replaytv but to a plain old VCR -- you can eject a tape and put another one in and put the original one back in at a later time and pick up where you left off.

Paul Simoneau

01-22-06, 05:13 PM

No, there isn't and no, you can't. It's not a ReplayTV or a Tivo or any other DVR brand you care to choose, it's the way it is.

For the life of me, I'll never understand why someone would start watching a recording, stop it, start watching another one, watch part of that, go back to the first one, watch some more of that, go back to the second one, watch some more of that, then back to the first one and on and on. I guess the folks who designed ReplayTV and Tivo watch their recordings that way, but what a jumbled mess IMHO. I guess it's simply different strokes for different folks, but you'll either have to learn to watch a complete recordng (or a least restart the same recording), or restart and FF to the point you stopped, or give up recording HD and go back to your ReplayTV. :)

Nice attitude. People who don't use their DVR the way you do must be stupid. Amazing... How someone can assume an air of superiority in trying to defend this piece o' crap DVR is beyond me. This guy is brand new around here, and you berate him for trying to do something any other reasonable DVR does from Day 1. Real nice.

Let's say I'm watching football, and get interrupted. Later on that day, my wife decides to watch her show. After that, I want to watch the rest of the football game. Yippee! I get to FFwd for 20 minutes just to get where I was in the first place. Nice DVR design... :(

cajieboy

01-22-06, 05:25 PM

Nice attitude. People who don't use their DVR the way you do must be stupid. Amazing... How someone can assume an air of superiority in trying to defend this piece o' crap DVR is beyond me.

Let's say I'm watching football, and get interrupted. Later on that day, my wife decides to watch her show. After that, I want to watch the rest of the football game. Yippee! I get to FFwd for 20 minutes just to get where I was in the first place. Nice DVR design... :(

Relax, no one called you stupid, and let's keep it civil. It does not take long to return to your previous spot on the 8300 as you can skip quickly in 15 min. increments, and the DVR has a mark where you had stopped viewing previously. I also thought there was a feature "Resume Playback", but perhaps I'm mistaken. Is the SA 8300 perfect, heck no, and I do wish there was a "commercial skip" feature for recording but I've gotten pretty quick w/the FF button.:D

Lampei

01-22-06, 05:48 PM

In the SARA software there isn't a skip 15 minutes so far (which is another frustration), and until they update the firmware and have 4X FF, it takes quite a while to get back to where you were in a recording (especially if you're at the 1 hour mark of a 2 hour show) even at 3X FF. I usually end up reading something while I'm waiting for it to get to the spot I left off at. Also, the DVR does *not* have a mark where you previously stopped viewing (that is what he's complaining about :)) and the other cause of frustration.

maxman

01-22-06, 05:50 PM

...you can skip quickly in 15 min. increments...D

Help me out with that one please. How???

cajieboy

01-22-06, 06:10 PM

DoubleDAZ

01-22-06, 06:45 PM

Relax is right, Paul! I called no one stupid or anything of the sort and my comments were made as an after-thought, not a part of the answer to the question in the first place. And there was a Smiley or did you choose to ignore it so you could rant?

At any rate, Lampei is right that SARA software does not have a 15 minute skip, but I just FF3'd through a one hour recording and it took less than 2 minutes, hardly the end of the world.

No one is saying it won't be nice to have markers or the Start From Beginning option when joining a recording in progress or any of the other ReplayTV/Tivo features, but why get so hostile over them or my defense of a unit that works just fine for a lot of folks? I've put up with a lot of personal attacks from people like you since I first started this thread in attempt to help others get the most out of what we have to work with, deficiencies and all. Do you go out and buy a Chevy sedan and then complain that it's not a Corvette? Of course not. Then why get cable with the 8300 and then complain it's not a ReplayTV or Tivo?

FWIW, I didn't take Steve's post as a complaint and I answered his question in my first sentence. After that, I chose to comment on how I don't understand the need to watch bits and pieces of multiple recordings that markers become such a big deal. I still don't understand it even though I do what you mentioned in your example, not often, but I do it, just like I imagine a lot of other DVR users do.

The first time I did that, I also questioned how the process worked. Once I figured out that I had to FF to the previous location in the recording, that's what I started doing. What I didn't do though is come to this thread and start bashing the 8300 and complain because I can't afford an HD Tivo or can't switch to sat because I live on the wrong side of an apartment complex, behind a mountain, etc.

If someone starts a thread asking what we'd do to make the 8300 better, I'd certainly support markers, 15 minute skip, 30 second skip, start from beginning, wishlist, and all the other features other DVRs have (some of which are coming in the next OS release). But neither you or anyone else has started such a thread and all the negative comments about the 8300 here just get buried where no one that can influence changes will see them. If you take all the 8300 bashing posts out of this thread, it would probably be half the size and of much more value to those who use it as intended, for Tips & Tricks. End of my comments on the subject.

DoubleDAZ

01-22-06, 06:49 PM

Sorry, my bad. I have Passport OS and just "assumed" the SARA OS had this functionality. I should've kept my trap shut. Geez :mad: , I'd be a little ticked too as I take this function for granted.I'd take it for granted too if I had it. The question I have is what would you have done if it had not been there to begin with? I don't have it, so I work around it, simple as that. :)

Paul Simoneau

01-22-06, 07:05 PM

No one is saying it won't be nice to have markers or the Start From Beginning option when joining a recording in progress or any of the other ReplayTV/Tivo features, but why get so hostile over them or my defense of a unit that works just fine for a lot of folks? I've put up with a lot of personal attacks from people like you since I first started this thread in attempt to help others get the most out of what we have to work with, deficiencies and all. Do you go out and buy a Chevy sedan and then complain that it's not a Corvette? Of course not. Then why get cable with the 8300 and then complain it's not a ReplayTV or Tivo?

You're missing the point. Your self-styled presence here is one of authority, fountain of knowledge, or something along those lines. If you stuck to answering questions for all the folks who post questions here, there'd be no problem. It's when you get into your sideline argument of "Gee, the 8300 works for me, take the criticism elsewhere" or "TiVo's too confusing for me, it's gotta be stupid" that you get into trouble.

If someone starts a thread asking what we'd do to make the 8300 better, I'd certainly support markers, 15 minute skip, 30 second skip, start from beginning, wishlist, and all the other features other DVRs have (some of which are coming in the next OS release). But neither you or anyone else has started such a thread and all the negative comments about the 8300 here just get buried where no one that can influence changes will see them. If you take all the 8300 bashing posts out of this thread, it would probably be half the size and of much more value to those who use it as intended, for Tips & Tricks. End of my comments on the subject.

Redundant and unncecessary. The mods would probably merge it back in as such. There's already too much clutter here at AVS, and another thread is the last thing we need. The mere fact that 1/2 of the posts are bitching that the 8300 is flawed/broken/lacking should tell you (and the geniuses at Sci Atl) that something's dramatically wrong.

On topic : this lovely box decided to continously crash Thursday night, every 2-3 minutes, while it tried to record a couple of HD programs simultaneously. Finally stopped after a while, leaving me with the fun task of deleting 30-40 junk recordings (select, down, down, select, A). Repeat and rinse 30-40 times... Oh yeah, and the box decided that I was unworthy of receiving one of my HDTV channels any more, requiring a call to Adelphia customer service to refresh my channel listing. Anyone here suffer any similar behaviour ?

cajieboy

01-22-06, 07:06 PM

I'd take it for granted too if I had it. The question I have is what would you have done if it had not been there to begin with? I don't have it, so I work around it, simple as that. :)

The SA 8300HD (Passport) is my very first DVR so if I had never known what I was missing I suppose I'd be content!:D...The thing is, I was visiting my sister's home and they have had an Instant Replay (older model) that had the "Commercial Skip" feature that I found kinda neat, but it also had a few bugs and some parts of the recording were lost because of this channel skip. If a newer version of "channel skip" were available w/o the bugs, I'd take it in a second. BTW, I've been trying to talk my sis into upgrading their STB to the 8300. They have Cox Cable in OKC, which has the SARA OS. Do all the SARA's have the same features?

mlydon

01-22-06, 07:47 PM

neilk2350

01-22-06, 08:13 PM

whats really interesting is comparing the too os's. i have time warner in NY which is passport and cablevision on LI which is sara. as much as i hate big conglomerates i have to say that there is no comparison between the two.. the time warner box is perfect, you can search the listings rather than just looking by first letter. when you are skipping through commercials the time warner box goes back to the beginning of the scene rather than stopping where you stop like the cablevision box. also the time warner box handles hdmi better.

davehancock

01-22-06, 08:21 PM

cajieboy

01-22-06, 09:34 PM

Now that we are into a "Passport" vs "SARA" mode: one current advantage of SARA is that you can easily add an external eSATA hard drive and add something like 60 hrs of HD recording. I've learned to be happy with the limitations of SARA in return for much more storage.

But, I agree that we should get back to helping others, not spending space and time on pointless "bashing".

Yeah, that is one very BIG advantage in having SARA in my books! I sure wish I had this capapbility, and I'd give up all those extra Passport features to get it if given the choice.

DoubleDAZ

01-22-06, 09:43 PM

All versions of SARA have pretty much the same capabilities, but there are versions for Cablevision that already have the Start From Beginning option and FF4. Most cableco's using SARA are waiting for OS 1.5 to be released before upgrading. As new versions become available and pass testing, most cableco's release them so all users are pretty muchon the same page.

DoubleDAZ

01-22-06, 10:27 PM

You're missing the point. Your self-styled presence here is one of authority, fountain of knowledge, or something along those lines. If you stuck to answering questions for all the folks who post questions here, there'd be no problem. It's when you get into your sideline argument of "Gee, the 8300 works for me, take the criticism elsewhere" or "TiVo's too confusing for me, it's gotta be stupid" that you get into trouble.Maybe I'll try this tact, then you'll have to make a conscious decision to read "my personal opinions".ote]So, you get to say anything you want, but I can't because you take it in a way not intended. You want me to stay on topic (Tips & Tricks not 8300 Bashing BTW), but you can come here and rant about Tivo this and Tivo that, etc., but then I can't respond with reasons why things are the way they are, is that it?

And why belittle with the "Tivo's too confusing" comment when you know that is not true or the point? If you don't like my "style", ignore it. If I say something wrong, please correct it. If I make a comment that you don't agree with, make your case, but don't expect not to get a counter response.
Redundant and unncecessary. The mods would probably merge it back in as such. There's already too much clutter here at AVS, and another thread is the last thing we need. The mere fact that 1/2 of the posts are bitching that the 8300 is flawed/broken/lacking should tell you (and the geniuses at Sci Atl) that something's dramatically wrong.No one that I know of has ever said nothing is wrong with the 8300, but there has to be a reason that I and many others don't suffer some problems others do and many of us have tried to convey how we do this or that to try to help others say out of trouble.

There are several 8300 threads here dealing with different topics. That is why a single Major thread was started to provide links to those threads. So I see nothing wrong with a thread designed to discuss desired enhancments. IMHO, the bashing that goes on here does little to convey anything to SA and simply clutters this thread. There are plenty of folks who PM me simply because they can't wade through this thread anymore and find anything past the first post. I've even offered to add a section to the first post outlining desired enhancements even though I don't see them as Tips & Tricks, but I got no takers to put it together. I suppose I could just add a laundry list of things like 30 second skip, 15 minute skip, Start From Beginning, search by whatever keyword anyone wants, location markers, etc., but having those mentioned in this thread has done nothing to stop the bashing so far, so I don't expect a laundry list in the first post would do much, do you?

And you know I wasn't talking about complaints, just the my Tivo is better than your 8300 bashing that adds nothing to the thread. How many times do we have to hear about the 30 second skip, especially when I believe it is no longer a standard feature on Tivo, was taken out of SARA software in difference to the Hollywood crowd, might even be patented by Tivo (along with many other features that SA has not "yet" decided to license), and from what I hear is not being included in the cable HD Tivo coming later this year or so.
On topic : this lovely box decided to continously crash Thursday night, every 2-3 minutes, while it tried to record a couple of HD programs simultaneously. Finally stopped after a while, leaving me with the fun task of deleting 30-40 junk recordings (select, down, down, select, A). Repeat and rinse 30-40 times... Oh yeah, and the box decided that I was unworthy of receiving one of my HDTV channels any more, requiring a call to Adelphia customer service to refresh my channel listing. Anyone here suffer any similar behaviour ?At the risk of sounding like a "fountain of knowledge", no, I've not experienced any similar behavior and I believe you are the first to mention it in any of the HD forums I read. :)

DoubleDAZ

01-22-06, 10:37 PM

Ok...just got a SA8300HD STB from Comcast in the South Jersey area (Cherry Hill). My SARA version is 1.87.23.1 dated 5/4/05 and I'm missing some features that others have said they have (such as the "start from beginning" option on currently recording shows). So how do these updates work and how often does Comcast send them out? Should I expect to see one soon to get it up to speed or can I call and have them do it (will they even know what I'm talking about)? Is there anyone from this area reading this and what version are you running?I believe that particular option is still limited to a Cablevision version that has not been widely released because of other bugs. It is in the next OS (1.5) release that should be coming in the next couple of months.

When SA release software, the cableco's do some inhouse testing before releasing it to their subs. When they do release it, it is an automatic process with nothing that you have to or can do.

There is no finite timeframe for such releases, it all depends on what SA needs to fix and what enhancements they are working on. FWIW, that particular feature is patented by Tivo and SA recently (later last year) reached an agreement with Tivo to include it in SARA software. They put it in the Cablevision release with the expectation it would be released to all cableco's. However, other cableco's decided to wait for the OS rewrite. Many other enhancements are patented and need agreements or will require that cableco's opt for a newer IPG, the current IPG is pretty limited.

srothkin

01-23-06, 08:35 AM

the DVR has a mark where you had stopped viewing previously.

That sounds potentially useful. Where do I find/see that?

I also thought there was a feature "Resume Playback", but perhaps I'm mistaken.

I did see that on the menu last night when I stopped a show during the closing credits. I guess the other night I didn't see it for the show we started watching last week because of the power outage in between (I do have the DVR on a UPS, but we lost power for around 7 hours and that UPS doesn't last that long).

Power outages don't happen that often here (maybe once every 2 years or so), so I'm not too concerned about minor power-loss issues like this one.

Hopefully in the absence of a power loss, the resume playback option will show up for any show we've started watching and not just the current or most recently viewed show.

BTW, I have SARA firmware and it DOES have the 4x FF which was able to take me through an entire half hour show in a few seconds (it recorded the time slot of Emily's Reasons Why Not even though it was pre-empted that week by another show AND the guide correctly showed the pre-empted show and the recording was setup for record first run episodes of this show at any time on this channel -- I FF'd through the show just to make sure it really was a different show).

If someone starts a thread asking what we'd do to make the 8300 better

I think that could be useful IFsomeone from Scientific Atlanta watched the thread and brought the suggestions back to their design/engineering team for consideration AND if the thread was limited to suggestions and the bashing was left out.

FWIW, there are a few little things from my ReplayTV (which I still have) that I miss on the 8300HD, but there's also advantages to the 8300HD that I like.

The biggest pro is HD recording -- that's the main reason I finally upgraded to digital cable and got the 8300HD when I replaced my TV with an HD monitor. The 2nd biggest pro is the ability to record 2 programs at once. Combined with being able to record a 3rd (standard def) program on the replaytv, I probably won't ever again have to setup a recording on the old vcr because the dvr's already recording something else.

I also like the fact that I can add an external HD to the 8300 to expand capacity (I already got a 400gb drive, I'm just waiting on the cable. Can't do that on the replay without opening it up and hacking.

I do miss the automatic commercial skip and 30 second skip forward, but after about 3 sessions I've already gotten used to FF3, and then hitting play followed by back/replay 2 or 3 times, so thats not so bad. Besides, the commercial skip didn't always work (especially on channels like MTV), and sometimes it skipped too much (Alias often had this problem).

RemyM

01-23-06, 09:17 AM

apparently the firmware on the SA 8300HD is upgradeable. i need it upgraded (according to yamaha) to allow it to pass through my HDMI switching receiver (yamaha 2600) i've spent hours on the phone with cablevision and gone up several levels and they act like i'm out of my mind. there are several mentions of firmware upgrades here and other places. How do i do this? i called scientific atlanta and they put me back on with cablevision.

The current Cablevision SARA version does have some issues with HDMI. It's works for some, like me, but not others. It all depends on what TV you have. Join the Cablevision Yahoo group http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/cablevision_digital/
Wilt Hildenbrand is Cablevision's Senior VP of Engineering and he monitors and posts in the site. Post your information there and he might look into it for you.

DoubleDAZ

01-23-06, 10:15 AM

Steve,

You must have the Cablevision version of SARA if you have FF4. I believe that is the only version that has it or at least I don't recall anyone else reporting it in another version.

Anyway, regarding a separate thread for desired enhancements, I only suggest this in an effort to keep this thread on topic and minimize all the 8300 bashing here. I cannot see SA or anyone else with any clout paying attention to this thread because of the negative bashing that continues even after reasons why a given feature is not available have been posted. That usually just leads to further bashing of the posted, SA, SA programmers, and cableco's to no end other than to vent.

Everyone here who had a ReplayTV or Tivo chose to get cable and the 8300 for some reason. No one forced them to do that. So I have to wonder why they do nothing more that bash something for what it isn't? That is not going to change much , if anything. I know I get on my high-horse from time to time and folks who don't like that can just ignore my comments, they don't have to get personal, call me names, etc. I and others have got a lot of time invested in this thread and I'm only trying for the umpteenth time to keep it somewhat on topic. Personally, I enjoy the lively debates, but that is not what the thread is for.

willix

01-24-06, 01:26 AM

I hope I'm not being redundant or am placing this inquiry in the wrong place, but I have been following the threads concerning the poor pq on the copy to vcr function on the SA 8300HD which I have with Cox, Fairfax, VA. On my unit everything seems to be active, and when I record an HD program or movie, then try to copy to vcr (DVD actually) using the out 2 jacks, I get what has been described on this forum as the bulk of the pixels being removed and a result which is un-watchable. I got similar results when just playing back the program and simultaneously recording it on the out 1 jacks - (incidentally, both options will take the svideo instead of the rca video jack) - the result is slightly better than the out2 jacks, but still unwatchable. The only way I can get a decent picture on a copy to vcr is if I make the original recording on the dvr in SD mode. Now I don't mind the downloaded copy to vcr/dvd being in SD - I only want to have a personal copy of the show or movie for my own use and I am not trying yet to get HD on offloads - I just want to free up space on the hard drive - and yes I have a 400 GB SATA drive attached on the eSata port. Anyway, my point is that I should be able to keep my HD version on the 8300 so I can watch it in HD as long as I have it on the DVR. Have I exhausted all the possibilities here? Is there no way to offload a program from the DVR in decent SD if it is on the DVR in HD to begin with?