My boards arrived yesterday.

Now I've to find a source for the chip :rolleyes:
John any hint here in Europe?
Hi Mauro,

Look here : http://www.analog.com/salesdir/countries.asp?regionID=4
Italy REP : http://www.analog.com/salesdir/countries.asp?regionID=4&countryID=99

John

About ADI chip soldering : take care, the pins pitch is .025" or 0.635mm, this is quite tiny. Pay attention to solder ponds between pins.

Also, mod inputs are using 5 pairs of gray wires. On each pair, the ground wire is shown with black ink marks.

Take your time in implementing this mod. & double check your work !

John

"Sorry for the trouble "

No trouble.... thanks :)

:cool:

Anyone have the mod installed in his 30K, yet ?

Mine is working fine !

John

Not yet, I misplaced my chips and had to reorder.

mike

Not yet.
Eventually,I had to order the chips at Analog Devices in the USA.
Forecasted shipping date 04.24.06 :rolleyes:

Mauro

Hi John,

So when do we get the review. Did it improve things, does the pic seem to be sharper/softer/noisier/less saturated etc.

Thanks

Hi WTS,

See my fast test report in my #225 post. Picture looks sharper than before even I cannot do A/B compare since I only got one JVC unit.

I didn't take time to try videograbber suggestion regarding the playback of test patterns through IEEE1394 from HTPC until now, sorry.

In fact, I'm currently facing a big issue on my G90 unit : convergences setting are moving between cold and warm condition (say 2 lines width missconvergences between red and Green/blue tubes :mad: ). I'm trying to solve this issue for more than one month by now and still haven't found the root cause of this failure :( .

Then, you may understand that I'm more concerned about my G90 issue than this mod, I'm sorry :o ...

So, I count on the other people that had received the same mod to test it deeper than I did ;) ...

Later

John

Hi John,

Yes I agree I'd be more concerned with the G90 as well, sorry I can't help you on that problem. I'll look at your post #225.

Thanks

Not yet, I misplaced my chips and had to reorder.

mike

Yippee, I found my chips..:)

I found time today to install the circuit in my 30K. at the moment I don't have another unit to compare it to, and the only differences that I can comment on, would be between the previous mod version that it was before I put in the circuit.

Before the circuit, I had my resistor and bead network. This seemed to work fine, plus it produced a sharper image than before my mod. The problem with my mod was a very faint noise in the image that wasn't really noticed, unless you got up on the screen. This same noise somehow effected some other things in the image, but I was not sure until I put the circuit in today.

After the circuit, things are different. the noise is gone, but there's another faint noise, but it's far less noticable than with the mod. The thing that really stick out with the circuit is the colors. the colors are off-the-hook. The image appears to be sharper, but I'm not really sure at this point. One thing I am sure about, the image is definitely more punchier.

Now I'll have to wait for Clarences unit to do a comparison between stock and the circuit. But for now, that circuit stays in. I really like what I'm seeing so far.. :)

One thing I am sure about, the image is definitely more punchier... But for now, that circuit stays in. I really like what I'm seeing so far.. :)
Thanks for the test Mike,

I agree with u upon image punch : far better than before. I've also notices better sharpness but only through my eyes ;) A/B comparisons is still the best thing to do :cool:

I'm still with with my G90 convergence issue and can't work furthermore on this these days :( ...

John

Thanks for the test Mike,

I agree with u upon image punch : far better than before. I've also notices better sharpness but only through my eyes ;) A/B comparisons is still the best thing to do :cool:

Yes, it's a difference that I really like. The improvement in sharpness is there I believe, but I would want to do a comparison to make sure its truly an increase in bandwidth, and not just a false sharpness (glassy look), that can also be misunderstood as sharpness (detail).

I'm thinking the punch could also be due to the buffer stage (in the chip) addition to the unit. It even brings life to my "X Men" tape.

I'm surprised you did not mention the colors jumping off the screen. I watched it more yesterday before leaving the shop. I gotta tell ya, It really looks good.

Oh, the image is much much cleaner. So much so that the low level black detail and blacks are much better.

I'm surprised you did not mention the colors jumping off the screen. I watched it more yesterday before leaving the shop. I gotta tell ya, It really looks good.
Yes Mike ;)

But as you may know, my G90 have currently issue with convergences stability :mad: (cold/warm), so I did not check this point ...

John

Yes Mike ;)

But as you may know, my G90 have currently issue with convergences stability :mad: (cold/warm), so I did not check this point ...

John

How long have you been wrestling with this problem?

I spent more time with the 30K last night. The real performance increase was noticed with the DVE 720P Test tape. All other material looks good as well, but that 720P tape confirms that a comparison is not necessary.

When I installed the board, I had to connect the wires different from what you have in the photos. I also could not get the DC supply wires soldered to that cap, so I connected it somewhere else. You must have special soldering tools, because those pictures make it look easy, when in fact it's very hard to solder those little wires to those tiny contacts.

It would be nice if you could mkae more of these, and if you do, solder the chip on as well. I'm sure I'll be needing at least two more. I want to try one in my HDTV receiver.

Great Job!

How long have you been wrestling with this problem?
From the beginning of my buy (1st january 2006). I'm planning to send the unit back to the seller in Germany...
I spent more time with the 30K last night. The real performance increase was noticed with the DVE 720P Test tape. All other material looks good as well, but that 720P tape confirms that a comparison is not necessary.
Good information Mike since I do not have the DVE tape ;) This confirm my eyes report :D
When I installed the board, I had to connect the wires different from what you have in the photos. I also could not get the DC supply wires soldered to that cap, so I connected it somewhere else. You must have special soldering tools, because those pictures make it look easy, when in fact it's very hard to solder those little wires to those tiny contacts.
I use Weller WMD-3 soldering station with pencil size iron at work :o But apprt from the use of thin iron end, I think the iron is not really important in the operation but rather a binoccular 10X japanese magnifier is very usefull to solder the wires. In fact, the very closer views pictures I took were made through the magnifer ;)
It would be nice if you could make more of these, and if you do, solder the chip on as well. I'm sure I'll be needing at least two more. I want to try one in my HDTV receiver.
Why not, I assume that I can provide the mod board fully component populated (including the ADI chip as well) as I said before but what will be the quantity of those mods to be done ???

We may collect the members who are interrested to have this mod. But as you mentionned, this mod. installation is not easy to be done and I want to be sure that the members who want this are able to install it since, there is no warranty on things like that :o
Great Job! Thanks for this, I'm always happy to share my mods skills & experiences with other passionnated people on this forum :D

Later

John

Before ordering a new batch of PCB, I'm collecting the forum members who are interrested to have this JVC mod. :

So far :

mp20748 for 2 mods
mark haflich for 5 mods
htguy1 for x mods (without the ADI IC)
Gaber x mods
Frank D one mod
Person99 one mod
bruce can one mod
jtnfoley one mod ?
Axatax two mods

Please add, confirm/correct or deny your interrest of being into this list ;)

Disclaimer : please don't try doing this update if you're not familiar with tiny SMD components soldering.

John

Person99 ?

Please add, confirm/correct or deny your interrest of being into this list ;)


Yep, I'm in. Any pricing info yet?

Dave

Hi Dave,

As said in my previous #216 post (see page 8), price of the mod would be $60 for complete and $50 for PCB without ADI chip mounted. This price is including overseas shipping cost.

In fact, most of the price is to pay my hard handwork (especially the coaxial termination assembly which is tricky to build :eek: ) than the parts cost ;)

However, I don't wanna make thousands of these :eek: just some...

Count on mod delivery in April (I'm also loaded with BG-DVI mod. ;) and will take some time to get AD Ics). Payments only just before shipping, not before - thx.

John

I'm in for one if I can get my damn 30k to stop showing me "calibrating" :mad:
Eventually I'll figure that one out. (Yeah, I've googled it... cleaning heads with typical methods did not work.)

Curious what is the BG-DVI mod ?

Bruce

Curious what is the BG-DVI mod ?

Bruce

See this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=616627

From what I hear, soldering your own chip in would be a real bitch even for a board technician $10 for the chip being installed on the card seems like a no brainer The downside is you won't see the board for a few months but so what? The real potential for this mod is not for the mass of JVCs out there and the multitude of tapes available (I use my machine to demo projectors in my store), but to improve the output of HDEF sat receivers etc. That's why I ordered five My rabbi who got a sample of the AD chip and installed it on his sample board said the thing really improved the output of his JVC tape machine and postulated the same improvement in HD receivers.

Hi all,
I've just started to disassemble the 30k. I notice that my digital pcb has a modification of a digital sub pcb (49) wired into the main digital pcb (50). Attached photos to show difference to photo from JohnhWman. Should make no difference , I'll just have to be even a little more careful not to break the wires or have pcbs interfere.
Prior to gutting the machine I looked at the 1080i and the 720p DVE tapes by eye. I took note of what sort of level of resolution I got. Hopefully I'll be able to see a difference. Should be another week or so to finish.

Yeah Moggy,

It seem's that this extra digital sub PCB was an original JVC mod to correct an hardware bug of their original design. This mod. is now incorporated in the newer revision of the main digital board (i.e. mine own JVC30K).

This should make the implementation of my mod slightly more difficult to do because the choosen place for the wiring of it is exactly at the same place of this JVC mod....

Maybe you should try to rotate this extra digital sub PCB by 90° to recover some space ?

Later

John

I'm in for one. Let me know how to go about it. You can shoot me a PM if you can't post the ordering information here.

Thanks,

Mike

Just a quick note:
I've added mod tonight. Results positive. More tomorrow. It's 2.30am and I've just been enjoying a few hours of HD movies. Too tired.

Good effort and have a good sleep moggy !

Some pictures attached may help.
# Labelling will help verify the wires.
# Because of the extra pcb I had in the way I found it a bit easier to exit the coaxes a few holes down from where John shows his exiting.
# I snuggled the whole lot together. I placed a bit of paper padding from a padded envelope over the jvc pcb to stop it moving.
# The double sided tape sticks like s..t to a blanket and held the john pcb quite firm. Which is just as well: the coaxes are VERY stiff and easily twist the pcb while trying to push it all together.
# Because of the twisting I broke a ribbon wire onto the digital pcb and had to pull the whole machine apart again to re-solder the ribbon Yb wire which had come loose(bad soldering?).
[A more permanent solution would be 1 Use more flexible coax. 2 Somehow glue it all in place without relying on the holy cover. ]
# I ended up putting a long zip tie through some holes and around the john pcb holding it in place in case the tape came loose. I did this because I had to pull it apart and re-use the tape.
# The fact is that once it's done it shouldn't need to be touched again so just be careful and take your time at the work. :eek:

As far as the mod actually working? Not a drama. Worked immediately. My breaking the Pb wire was the only hiccup. Re-done and it works fine.
Honestly, take your time and double check everything.
Finished assembly in attached photo.
I attempted to take very special care: living in Australia I can't easily send it to JVC to get fixed. Sending it to/back the US is just not worthwhile. I hope to eventually pick up a cheap 2nd hand 40k on ebay as a backup (plus it plays DTS). Once HD-DVD /BD takes off and D-Theater is then passe.

I used a pencil Weller 700degF, tweezers, solder-wick and ordinary solder. Keep cleaning and tinning the tip for easy use.

So, what is the result?

Visually it's difficult to judge without an AB comparison but I did do a pre-mod test using a test frequency multiburst response screen from the DVE 1080i tape. I am definitely seeing further along the multiburst after the mod. It's only the last burst that I cannot resolve now and I suspect that this is more to do with the analogue nature of the HD rather than the source.
At approx 1h00m into tape there are 3 luminance multibursts, 100% amplitude.
1,2,4,6,8,10MHz
10,12,14,16,18,20MHz
20,22,24,26,28,30MHz
Prior to mod first 2 screens were fine. The 3rd test I was just able to distinguish visible lines at 26MHz with no trouble below that. (I'm using a sony 1292 BTW with my own designed and built transcoder and 5x12m lengths of RG11.) The 28 & 30MHz bursts were just a grey/pink mash with no visible vertical lines.
After mod I was easily able to see lines at 28MHz although with not a lot of depth of modulation. 30MHz was still greyed out.
So, there you have it, a genuine improvement that's not subjective. I'm only comparing before and after without genuine testing using 500MHz test gear but I reckon the comparison is a worthy objective improvement.
In reality, does this extra 2 to 3 MHz help? I'm not sure but it is there nonetheless. With proper test gear perhaps you might see a better interpretation of the improvement.
Can someone interpret how seeing lines at 28MHz relates to real world HD?
I've heard that the 1080i tape is flawed, how does this affect the result?

So how did it look?
I watched Ice Age and it was terrific. I watched half of the Mummy and the definition in the daytime scenes was startling. I now reckon it's as least as good as the HS60 and probably better. I think it looks better.
Next movie to watch is 'I, Robot', to look at the definition in the city skyline scenes.
I wish I could be more upbeat about the visual movie result but I find it difficult to be objective. The multiburst result will have to do the talking.

Now for the real mention of thanks.
I would like to publicly thank John for designing and building this mod. Great stuff. Without John I would still be floundering like the rest of us. Any time you come back to Melbourne please come and visit, we'll watch a few movies too . (HD of course).

Now that mine is up and running I have one AD4412-3 chip leftover and now available.
First option is if John wants it he can have it. Next is if someone in Australia needs it. After those options I'll send it to anyone that John selects as being deserving of it. The chip is a lot easier to get in the states as samples. I had to get the 2 samples through my work contacts.
I don't want to see it wasted and mine won't ever fail so I don't need a backup.


Cheers
Chris

An easier jpg of the pcb schematic is attached. Missing John's template graphics, sorry, 800x600 is the largest I could upload.
See page 6 of 10 for John's original schematic:
JVC 30K/40K video filters update schematic (http://johnhwman.chez-alice.fr/JVC30K/Update.tif)

Hello Moggy,

Thanks a lot for this extensive review of the JVC video mod :eek:

Like Mike, you did the tests far beyond than I did due to the lack of time solving my G90 issue :( and that's good to confirm our own visual feelings ;)

Yes, I've forgot to labeled the PCB on the pictures I've took (because of the PCB size, I coudn't did it on the silkscreen ;) ). So you did it and now it's easier job for everybody else. Thanks.

You've mentionned that some of your wires got broken during the update process : yes, because of this mod and its solders size, it is easier to have such issues... I would like to insist on the fact that doing this mod by ourselves is a real tricky job and requires a lot of patience and cool hands :D

I'm happy with this mod results and thank you too for your own contribution that enabled this successfully happened :p

About coax. : yes, they are hard to bend because they are using teflon and steel material. But finding thin diameter and good quality 75 ohms is not so easy to do. That is why I was using RG179B/U coax. to fit in this mod ...

About ADI circuits, I've ordered them from a french reseller and awaiting for the delivery time. You're right, those ICs are easier to find in USA than everywhere in the rest of the world. Leadtime may be the only limitation I'm gonna facing in delivering this mod to the rest of the interrrested people :(

Thank again for you own nice pics and enjoy your "new" JVC player picture :D

Sorry for my poor english written grammar :o

John

John,

If the offer is still available, please add my name for two boards.

Thanks!

guys if you need test patterns for evaluation of the mod go and get them here:


http://www.w6rz.net/



they are .ts files that can be recorded onto D-VHS tapes.


hope that helps


Michael

If the offer is still available, please add my name for two boards.
OK Axatax, see my #268 post on previous page : I've updated the list ;)
John

Small Update :

Just got 20 samples from Max, product manger of this ADA4412-3 chip in Analog USA.

This man was very kind to propose these parts !

I've also ordered 50 pieces of this chip in France, should get'em on June.

I start to build new PCBs now.

Later

John

Just a quick hello to everyone.
My mod has been working well for many months.
I now have a Toshiba HD-A1 and a Sony VW100 projector (no more 1292) and the D-Theater using component looks almost as good as the Toshiba's HDMI output. Only a small difference IMHO. It's a mod well worth doing.
Thanks John.

Just a note regarding all the work being put into the mods.
Please make sure all the capacitors in the analog chain are in good order.
As with any consumer electronics device heat and time take their toll on capacitors.
The 30K is not exception to this.... get hold of a good ESR meter or have a good tech check the board out.
You may find a mod is not needed for your viewing needs.

I now have a Toshiba HD-A1 and a Sony VW100 projector (no more 1292) and the D-Theater using component looks almost as good as the Toshiba's HDMI output. Only a small difference IMHO. It's a mod well worth doing.
Thanks John.
Hi Moggy,

It's winter time on your earth side nowadays ;) . How about snow ?

Thanks for the small HD-DVD vs DVHS PQ comparison but did you use the same material (i.e. the same MPEG2 file) to realize the comparison ? In fact most HD-DVD material are using VC-1 encoding which is far better than MPEG2 HD used on DVHS...

However, you can easely compare the two devices by burning the D-VHS TS MPEG2-HD file on a DVD-R (using HD-DVD authoring mode) and play this disc within the HD-A1 to compare the PQ with same input conditions.

Cheers

John

Responding to Moggy's query from March...
> I've heard that the 1080i tape is flawed, how does this affect the result? <

The 30 MHz bursts are so far down (-17 dB) on the 1080i tapes that even if John's output stage was perfectly flat to 40 MHz, you wouldn't be able to see any significant content from the tape at the 30 MHz test point. There's nothing there (on that test tape) for John to preserve.

You need better source material to be able to gauge the true impact of this enhancement. As I pointed out here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7063749&&#post7063749) back in February. And nidi reiterated in April, and John just suggested again.

- Tim

Responding to Moggy's query from March...
> I've heard that the 1080i tape is flawed, how does this affect the result? <

The 30 MHz bursts are so far down (-17 dB) on the 1080i tapes that even if John's output stage was perfectly flat to 40 MHz, you wouldn't be able to see any significant content from the tape at the 30 MHz test point. There's nothing there (on that test tape) for John to preserve.

You need better source material to be able to gauge the true impact of this enhancement. As I pointed out here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7063749&&#post7063749) back in February. And nidi reiterated in April, and John just suggested again.

- Tim
That's fair enough. However, I did see a noticeable difference with a before and after comparison. I used a multiburst from the DVE tape. I posted previously on that. Not a scientific test but I noticed the difference on my 1292 at the time.
I hope all those mods have progressed happily. Mine's fine.

Hi Moggy,

It's winter time on your earth side nowadays ;) . How about snow ?

Thanks for the small HD-DVD vs DVHS PQ comparison but did you use the same material (i.e. the same MPEG2 file) to realize the comparison ? In fact most HD-DVD material are using VC-1 encoding which is far better than MPEG2 HD used on DVHS...

However, you can easely compare the two devices by burning the D-VHS TS MPEG2-HD file on a DVD-R (using HD-DVD authoring mode) and play this disc within the HD-A1 to compare the PQ with same input conditions.
Cheers John
Hi John, we don't get snow at all at any time. Only in the Great Dividing Range mountains above 1km. The coldest winter day ever in Melbourne would be about 4C, it's usually 8-10C. November is now typically 18-20C.

The idea of copying from the d-vhs to PC is impossible I thought. Copy protection and all that. No, I didn't do a direct comparison. However, just tonight I have a movie which is in both formats. Fast& Furious HD-DVD and D-Theater.
I have actually got quite a collection of HD ts files now. Apart from the ones I've got I probably won't worry too much about them any more. HD-DVD is starting to take off . Toshiba are planning to start selling their players here in December for about A$1100 for the base player and about A$1600 for the better unit in January.
It seems the first players will be 60Hz just like the yank units. They reckon the 50Hz ability will be a future firmware 'upgrade'. Interesting.
Bye for now.

HD-DVD is starting to take off . Toshiba are planning to start selling their players here in December for about A$1100 for the base player and about A$1600 for the better unit in January.
True Moggy,

I've also ordered the HD-XE1 (1080P ready) Toshiba player in October and expect it in France around mid/end december.

It seems the first players will be 60Hz just like the yank units. They reckon the 50Hz ability will be a future firmware 'upgrade'. Interesting.
Bye for now.
Yes, that's a pity :( 50 or 60Hz is a shame : I would like 1080P47.952 mode in this player to use with my G90 PJ to have clean travelings (no-judder) ;) I'm currently studying the Toshiba firmware structure to see if I can re-program the 1080i ->1080p IVTC+scaler to enable this useful mode ;)

John

I'm currently studying the Toshiba firmware structure


Wow. If you find a way to modify the firmware to allow an HD-A1 to output 1080p24fps (which is, apparently, supported by the chipset), that would be a BIG WIN as well.

Wow. If you find a way to modify the firmware to allow an HD-A1 to output 1080p24fps (which is, apparently, supported by the chipset), that would be a BIG WIN as well.

either that or at the veryt least enable 72hz with 3:2 pulldown correction

Maybe the time I'm waiting for my HD-XE1, Toshiba will add these 1080P24+1080P48 modes in their firmware ;)

In fact there should be no reason to not implement these modes since the XE1/XA2 output scaler chip is probably able to manage these :)

1080P60 is high video BW consuming for nothing more than 1080P48 (rather less PQ in 1080P60 on a G90 :rolleyes: )

John

either that or at the veryt least enable 72hz with 3:2 pulldown correction

Well, since we know from the manufacturer of the chip that Toshiba uses that it can expressly handle 1080p24fps, but no higher than 1080i (roughly equivalent to 1080p30fps), I don't think that 1080p72 is possible. (I'm making the gross oversimplification that fps=hz, which for purposes of this analysis should be okay.)

Yes on HD-A1 but not necessarely on HD-XE1/XA2 since these players use a dedicated scaler chip on the back-end.

Wow. If you find a way to modify the firmware to allow an HD-A1 to output 1080p24fps (which is, apparently, supported by the chipset), that would be a BIG WIN as well.

I'm not sure how this is a big win. No one with a CRT is going to want 24 Hz. Too much flicker. So, you are going to need a processor to get what you want from either 1080p24 or 60 or 1080i60, so having 24 is of no use to us.

Dave

either that or at the veryt least enable 72hz with 3:2 pulldown correction

This will never happen. The total number of consumers with displays that can handle 72 Hz is incredibly small. Plus, it is beyond the bandwidth of most chipsets in use now.

Dave

This will never happen. The total number of consumers with displays that can handle 72 Hz is incredibly small. Plus, it is beyond the bandwidth of most chipsets in use now.

Dave

I was talking about 1080i rather than 1080p but I get your point about the number of consumers with that kind of display.

That is why I was wishing that someone hacking the firmware could enable it.

I'm not sure how this is a big win. No one with a CRT is going to want 24 Hz. Too much flicker. So, you are going to need a processor to get what you want from either 1080p24 or 60 or 1080i60, so having 24 is of no use to us.

Dave

I'm not sure who "us" is, unless you mean CRT owners? It would be a big win for "us" (digital projector owners that can scale 24hz to 48, 72 or 96hz) to remove the judder that 60hz introduces to film-based material. I'd swap out my HD-DVD player for one that outputs 24fps in an instant.

Back in November, John commented:
> I would like 1080P47.952 mode in this player to use with my G90 PJ to have clean travelings (no-judder) I'm currently studying the Toshiba firmware structure to see if I can re-program the 1080i ->1080p IVTC+scaler to enable this useful mode <

Just curious if you ever made any headway on this?

- Tim

It's in the pipe Tim. I should work on my HD-XE1 player about this. I'm still chasing the Reon VX50 datasheet ...

John