I currently feed my aging X1 a 1024x576 VGA signal from my HTPC (with Powerstrip). Using this higher-than-native res servers two purposes: it's gives an aliasing effect that makes DVD's and pictures look better, and it gives you enough resolution to browse the web (800x450 is not enough for doing anything in windows).

Is there any reason I can't do the same thing with the H31? Or better yet, is it possible to make my HTPC output 1280x720 and would the H31 be able to display it?

Wayne,

Sure PM me the link to the beginners course.

The software that my version of MCE is using right now is PowerDVD5. It originally came with WinDVD, but after a while I noticed I was not getting Dolby Digital sound out of my DVD's when played through the computer... even though I had selected it during the setup procedure. After confirming the DVD was outputting DD by playing the same DVD in my Panny player and having the receiver immediately switch to DD I knew I had a problem. Gateway's solution was to ship me a copy of PowerDVD and have me uninstall WinDVD and replace it with PowerDVD. In MCE you never really know what software is being used because when you push the green button to launch MCE it comes up with a menu of DVD, TV, Pictures, Music, etc, etc... so the software is running in the background. After installing PowerDVD 5 though I now had DD sound.. although the version they sent me does not support DTS which fried my shorts a bit.... as long as I am on a "mini rant" Gateway also refuses to either upgrade me or to even sell me an upgrade from MCE 2004 to MCE 2005... which does support DTS and also has built in support for HD tuner cards. They only way Gateway will sell you MCE 2005 is if you buy a brand new computer from them! My response was "why can't we just fix the one I already bought from you?" Other than the sound issues the computer has always run fine, but Gateways "lack" of Customer Service would lead me to never purchase another product from them.

However, I have been very impressed with the integration and ease of use built into Media Center Edition of the operating system. Microsoft strikes again........ I wonder who they bought to get this software??

Originally posted by mbaxter
Or better yet, is it possible to make my HTPC output 1280x720 and would the H31 be able to display it?

I'm sure the H31 would have no problem with 1280x720, but the holy grail of HTPC DVD playback has always been 1:1 mapping. I have the H30 (not yet convinced to go to the H31:) ) and NOTHING looks as good as it's native 800x600 on it (IMHO of course).

Originally posted by fleaman
Well, PAL is 576 lines of resolution while over here in North America we have the NTSC 480 line standard, hence everyone's desire to 1:1 pixel map to the 854x480 number.

If your only using PAL movies (576 lines), you can't do 1:1 pixel mapping on the H31. To do that, you would need a matterhorn resolution projector (576 lines), like a Optoma H57, benq PE7800, etc.

Fleaman
Sorry, i meaned that i want to force PAL(576 > from my Yamakawa) material to H31 panel(854x480) without scaling. I think its looks better then a PAL movies straigh, Maybe.
i want to test all possible resolutions and i see what looks best.

Originally posted by Mika J.S.
Hello, my 1st message, but not first visit here in forum. :)

I ordered today H31(here in Finland named H30A) and i have Yamakawa 365 dvd-player.

I want to "feed" pj 1:1 = 854x480 resolution. That DVD-Player includes Custom Resolution options.

My question, is here anyone with same setup? I want to know already what parameters are working and best for that player to feed H31.
I come to use DVI and only PAL(R2) movies.

Sorry my bad english, but i think you all understand what i meaned to say. :(

I used this info from this site with the Bravo D2 and just changed the horizontal to 854 and it worked. The PJ read it was seeing 854X480. If NTSC users try a Bravo D2 you need a very good cable, or a short cable. My 6' cable worked fine with the H31 but the 30'er didn't. Possibly a 30' Ethereal cable or Vinc cable would work better

http://home1.gte.net/res18h39/customdvi.htm

Originally posted by mjolson
I'm sure the H31 would have no problem with 1280x720, but the holy grail of HTPC DVD playback has always been 1:1 mapping. I have the H30 (not yet convinced to go to the H31:) ) and NOTHING looks as good as it's native 800x600 on it (IMHO of course).

Yes, the whole point of HTPC is to have complete control over every single pixel. So you want to eliminate any external processing. (like re-scaling in the projector).

The only time it might make sense to send higher-res is if you are unable to get the projector to cooperate with 1:1 mapping. In this case, the scaling artifacts might be less offensive starting off from a higher-res input.

H57 is in da house!

I received my loaner H57 today and promptly shipped my H31 to Toronto for Optoma to assess. Hopefully they'll be able to fix the syncing problem between it and the computer.

Some early and brief observations:

The H57 has a quieter fan but unfortunately this unit is one of the buzzers that we all read about on the H30 thread. It's slightly annoying and can be heard along with the fan and a little above it. So you have two sounds coming at you from this particular unit.

The H57 is HUGE. Much bigger than the H31 and is basically a white box with a lens. Style is not this model's forte.

It's a matterhorn 1024 x 576 resolution. Kind of weird. So it seems like you have to feed it a 4:3 aspect ratio to get the dimensions correct. Just like having the X1 back again. The extra resolution does make a difference. The pixels aren't as noticeable from 11 to 12 feet away as they are with the H31 or X1. This is of course reasonable and understandable. This unit has the same beautiful colors as the H31 although I think that the reds on the H57 are deeper and lack the orangey feel that you can get on occasion with the H31. Blacks and contrast ratio are indistinguishable from the H31. You think about that for a while and also think about the price difference between the two models.

I had a machine shop put new holes in my mounting plate so that I could mount the H57 and now I am able to mount the H57, H31 and the X1 all from the same mount. Not at the same time though. :D

I am not as impressed with the menu system on the H57 as I am with the one found on the H31. I like how it's laid out better on the H31 and I think it gives you more options. The remotes are the same size and shape but the buttons are configured differently. I'm used to the H31 layout and prefer it.

The lens throw is long on the H57 as opposed to the shorter one on the H31. I cannot from 13 feet away get an image small enough to fit my 92" diagonal screen so there is a border of light around the perimeter of the screen. If I were to keep this projector I'd re-mount it a little ways out from the wall and toward the screen. That would fix that problem.

Now as for the issues problematic to the H31 I am particularly curious to find out whether they also plague this other model. The H57 was recognized by my HTPCs video graphics card immediately in the Display/Setting/Advanced windows. The drop down box clearly recognizes the H57 as 'Optoma H57'. Of course, my card also did the same thing for the H31 before it asked the projector for a divorce. :mad:

The last time I was able to get a DVI signal from the HTPC to the H31 it lasted for 7 days so we'll see how long this digital connection to the H57 will live.

The other problem is tearing. I am only in the very early stages of learning about this projector but it appears that tearing can be drastically reduced and possibly eliminated by doing what I've said before. If you use the clone feature running a monitor for instance and a projector, make sure that your projector is clicked as the primary display device. If you don't the tearing will be all over the place. Secondly, if you use ZoomPlayer/TheaterTek and ffdshow, you can practically say goodbye to the tearing issue by not clicking on the 'specify size' bullet in the Resize and Aspect Settings box.

I'll be doing an AVIA calibration and testing to try to get rid of the tearing issue completely with this unit.

potus,

I really like component. I have the LG/Zenith upconverting player which scales to 1080i really well via component. I also have very good cables to that with.

I'm not sure that this quality transfers to the computer realm though. I'm only speaking on assumption here by the way. I haven't actually seen a component feed from an HTPC but I also haven't seen any component outputs on a video card either. The only way I know how to get a component signal out of a computer is to transcode it through a dongle such as an s-video cable on one end and component on the other. To me, this might introduce conversion related interference. VGA and DVI on the other hand can go unimpeded straight from the source to the display device.

I'm sure that the image would be fine from component out of a computer but I figure why bother when we now have pure digital pathways unless you have to use component.

But your points are good ones.

Steve,

Okay, I'll publish the link in this post for you and anyone else who's curious about HTPC usage. This article is a little dated but still for the most part quite relevant.

http://htpcnews.com/main.php?id=ffdshowdvd_1

So Steve, you had PowerDVD 5 and then got WinDVD? WinDVD is better than PowerDVD. They're both good but WinDVD is acknowledged by most HTPC users as being superior. However, most have now moved on to other video decoders such as DScaler 5 or the nVIDIA one.

Too bad about your lousy experience with Gateway's service personnel. You can speak loudly next time by not buying from them as you say.

Tell me, i heard(read at finnish forum) that some people sees rainbows H57 more than a H30/H30A(=H31).
Btw, thos pj have a same 4x6 disc.

No Wayne the other way around.............

Media Center Edition was originally using WinDVD, but for some reason was not giving me DD sound.

So Gateway switched me to PowerDVD 5, which does give me DD, but not DTS.

I did not really notice much of a change in video quality from one to the other... I should probably look around the forums and see what other DVD programs are compatible with MCE... there is one site I found where they will probably know...... I think it was called "www.thegreenbutton.com" they seem to be pretty sold on MCE.

The reason you probably like the menu system on the H31 better is that it is a newer projector than the H57. I am sure as time and experience go on the Optoma Engineers get better and more user friendly at what they are doing.

Mystery, Thanks for the update on the H57 model. Is the image offset any different than the H31? I have a low basement ceiling and I need to keystone quite a bit with the H31 to get the image high enough on my wall.

Thanks,
Moe

Mika,

I have seen rainbows on the H57 but no more so than the H31. It's always for me when I turn my head away rapidly to look at something or do to something else.

Steve,

Sorry for the confusion. I have both PowerDVD and WinDVD and it was these two programs which I first used when I got my HTPC. They played better on screen than my DVD player so I worked with both of them for a time until I started with ZoomPlayer. I've gone back to the other two from time to time just to compare but I've always returned to ZoomPlayer. Not sure why you weren't getting Dolby Digital with WinDVD. I get it with all of my software players. Must have something to do with MCE and/or Gateway.

Moe,

I haven't had to change anything with my setup. The pj hangs exactly where the H31 was and the screen is also still in the same place. The H57 is sitting level and no keystoning is required so I have to conclude that the offsets are either the same or fairly close. I'm sorry that I can't be of much help in this. I think if there was a drastic difference I would have had to raise or lower my screen but everything's cool.

More H57 Observations

This projector is an enormous light cannon. I'm using a High Power screen and that is not necessary with this projector. It's way, way too bright. Hard on the eyes. It's so bright that it's brighter than my 64" Pioneer widescreen CRT set. The entire room actually lights up from the reflections off the screen. The only reason to go with a high gain screen would be to fill a very large screen or if you'd like to have several lamps on in the room. We turned on the overhead light and two lamps plus had light streaming in from another room and it was still watchable!

I'm going to swap the High Power for my other screen which is a Da-Lite High Contrast Matte White (gray) screen. I think that will be better for this type of projector.

billymac

It looks as if you can make this projector exhibit the lines and also cause them to disappear. Make the projector the primary display and set your video card to 1024 x 768 with the H57 and you're not real far off from 1:1 pixel mapping. This may be the key. Also, I've set the resize function in ffdshow to that same resolution because I got stuttering in the images if I set it to anything higher. May be a function of my particular card. When I do these things, the lines do not appear so far. But you can make them come back by going with very high resolutions and making the H57 the secondary display.

I'll connect the H57 to the Panasonic S97 via DVI and LG/Zenith via component in the next day or so to see how they fare.

Wayne

wayne, thanks for the update, but unfortunately, a H57 is not a H31. i've given up trying to trouble-shoot it as i believe there's really nothing more that can be done. optoma needs to step up to the plate and address the issue.

Well I truly hope they get this figured out - I know how frustrating fiddling with Powerstrip can be (owned a Z1 once).

It's starting to make me think that I should just get in on the Panamorph clearance to convert my H30 to 16:9(and use the full panel) and forget about the H31:(

Help is coming for you HTPC users. I was able to get Jason (dagamepimp) an H31. He's had good luck making HTPC work with the H30 and the IF4805. He's happy to help if he can.

Thanks Jason and I guess you and Kras can get together for a shootout also. You should have the PJ sometime next week.

The H31 isn't user-upgradable (firmware flash of some sort), is it? If it turns out H31 firmware needs to be upgraded, won't all existing owners have to send their pjs into Optoma for the upgrade?

Thanks Tom, that's the best news I've heard in a while!

Thanks in advance Jason!

thanks a ton tom. i'm really sorry to be such a negative ned about all this, but it's really proven to be quite a challenge even getting anybody from optoma to even adknowledge this (at least here in the states)--several phone calls and emails and not even a reply. literally all they have to do to replicate the problem is slap a pc with a dvd player up on the bench, plug it into an H31, hit play and bingo, there it is.

jason thanks in advance for looking into this. i look forward to seeing what you can do with it. i have to tell you i don't hold out too much hope. i'll admit i'm no expert with powerstrip, but i can tell you i've beaten my head against the wall with this issue as have many others here.

Originally posted by potus
The H31 isn't user-upgradable (firmware flash of some sort), is it? If it turns out H31 firmware needs to be upgraded, won't all existing owners have to send their pjs into Optoma for the upgrade?

yes, i think you're right, but i'd send mine back in a minute if i knew it would fix the scan line/tearing and digital sync issues...

gosh i hope this get's resolved, that would make my year

It's no problem, I talked with Wing about HTPC he could use his PC but admits HTPC is complicated at times and can be time consuming to get different setups to work. That's why he was happy to get Jason a machine. Jason doesn't seem to mind, he did a good job working with the 4805 and H30. No guarantee's but it's worth a shot.

Yep just as Tom stated (no promises) but I will try my best to get this figured out for the H31/HTPC users out there ;) .

--------- Jason

It will be good to see your smiling face over here for sure. :) Plus some participation in discussions. Who knows maybe i'll even try a HTPC.

As you all know, my H31 is at Optoma Canada as it arrived there today. They have been told in no uncertain terms by me about these problems and they're very keen to find a remedy.

They even sent me a beautiful polo t-shirt in black. It has the DLP logo on the right sleeve and on the left side of the chest is the Optoma logo. Very classy apparel and a very classy organization in my opinion. They sent this to me in response to my positive comments to them about their prompt attention to my concerns. They asked my permission to publish my thoughts on their website and as a way of saying thanks would send me a t-shirt which arrived today.

I'm very sorry for you folks in the U.S. who haven't been getting this same type of hands on customer service attention. This ought not to be.

Tom, thanks very much for your part in persuading Optoma to provide an H31 to Jason. But I believe that Wing is copping out here. Optoma U.S.A. should not be farming out their troubleshooting function to an outside party. I have no problem with Jason offering his services and I surely hope that he can help us but I'd feel a whole lot better if I knew that Wing was also working on the problem. If we have both Optoma Canada and Optoma U.S.A. working together on this PLUS Jason to boot, we have a far better chance of finding a solution.

But for Wing to almost flippantly declare that these things are complicated and can be time consuming to get these things to work... :confused: Let me translate that: It sounds like he's saying that he doesn't have the time or interest in solving these issues because the HTPC crowd are a small minority and not really worth the effort but we'll toss them a small bone and hopefully this will all go away.

Why is it that the Canadian arm of this company is taking this problem very seriously while the American one is quite happy to see if a non-employee can fix it?

What happened to all of the good press Optoma U.S.A. received when the H30 was having it's premature bulb blowing and buzzer issues? Their reaction to these problems was one of the primary motivating factors in my purchase of the H31. Why are they not answering billymac's emails and phone calls?

I'm not impressed. Wing, get off your arse and hook an H31 to an HTPC and don't come out of your cubicle until you've bloody well come up with a solution or failing that, an apology and an offer of some sort to HTPC users to placate them.

So much for polite Canadians, eh? :D :D

Wayne

Boy and folks think I can get on a "rant!":D :p :D

You're not one of those guys are ya? ;)

"I talked with Wing about HTPC he could use his (PC) but admits HTPC is complicated at times and can be time consuming to get different setups to work. That's why he was happy to get Jason a machine."

Wing doesn't use HTPC, he's saying it can be time consuming for you to get your HTPC equip to work.

Tom,

at the sake of sounding like "that guy" i'd have to say that in all fairness, the very least they could do is acknowledge my attempts to communicate with them. unresponsiveness leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

Is this projector having problems with HTPCs only, or also with DVD players through DVI?

I'm planning to buy this projector, but I don't want to deal with the problems you guys are having.

HTPC users are having trouble. A Bravo D2 worked well but you need a good cable with the Bravo. I have a Tosh HDMI player that worked good with a cheap cable. Panny S97 sounds good from readings here.

Billymac, keep trying but emails aren't the best way. You have to get them on the phone.

Well, the tearing problem is also readily apparent when connecting a progressive scan DVD player through the VGA port. No HTPC needed.

Apparently DVI-connected DVD players do not have these problems.. (which is curious to me... I would expect it to be relatively easy to generate the equivalent DVI signal with an HTPC...)

Finally hooked up my new H31 last night on the coffee table (Oppo / DVI, 92" High Power). The picture is stunning....wow. Think my wife was even more excited than me. Neither of us could believe what we were seeing for the price we paid for the whole setup. Still have some work ahead to complete the install though.

On that subject -- I haven't purchased a ceiling mount yet. The optoma one seems too spendy. What's a good value universal mount? I did a search on this forum and saw one that was black called the PDR. Anything else out there folks recommend? Thanks.

After having read through the Infocus 4805 thread a while ago while doing research it was obvious that Jason was "da man" when it came to home theater pc and projector compatibility. I'm curious to see what his thoughts are concerning the H31's pic quality as compared to his beloved 4805.

On that subject -- I haven't purchased a ceiling mount yet. The optoma one seems too spendy. What's a good value universal mount? I did a search on this forum and saw one that was black called the PDR. Anything else out there folks recommend? Thanks. [/B][/QUOTE]

I used a panavise cell phone pedestal mount smililar to this one..



I got a thin round metal plate and mounted the pedestal mount to it and then mounted the metal plate to the bottom of the H31 using the 3 holes.. then used the other end to mount to my drop ceiling.. worked great!

The Panavise Deluxe 826 was suggested to me. It mounts to the H31 using the larger 'tripod mount type screw'.

Also, the PDR, and if you want to build your own, search for 'Monkeyman's Mount'.

Those are the three options that I have narrowed down to (once I actually buy my H31 that is).

:)

Cheers!

Originally posted by J-Flat-E

On that subject -- I haven't purchased a ceiling mount yet. The optoma one seems too spendy. What's a good value universal mount? I did a search on this forum and saw one that was black called the PDR. Anything else out there folks recommend? Thanks.

i probabaly have one of the cheapest mounts,

i mounted it directly to a black anodized piece of aluminum and mounted that directly to the ceiling, i placed four 1/4 -20 inserts into the studs.

the projector is mounted to the plate using the 1/4-20 tripod mount and a single m3 screw.

i dragged the aluminum out of the scrap bin. i made the holes for the bolts extra large and used fender washers

i mounted the projector, figured out the spot and marked the wall for mounting the screen.

the think i really like is that adjustments are done using a screw driver and finding a 1/4 turn is a fair amount of change but still easy to align everything up without using keystone etc.

anyway just a thought, some of the other mounts look good but they all drop the projector down and this can be a problem as it has a pretty good offset anyway.

David

Hi all,

I jumped in and purchased a H31. Should be here soon. Got 30 ft Component cable from Blue Jean cables. Great service from them...Nice looking product!

So I will try to figure out what distance look the best with the projector, (free 100 inch screen from V/A coming also) run the cables etc, then mount to ceiling....

Any other tips for someone who has no HT clue like me?

Thanks for all your help..


Dan

Originally posted by potus
Well, the tearing problem is also readily apparent when connecting a progressive scan DVD player through the VGA port. No HTPC needed.

Apparently DVI-connected DVD players do not have these problems.. (which is curious to me... I would expect it to be relatively easy to generate the equivalent DVI signal with an HTPC...)

if that's the case, then buying a stand-alone player wouldn't solve this problem for anybody running all their signals through a switch and over a vga cable like me

Originally posted by GR ZIP
Hi all,

I jumped in and purchased a H31. Should be here soon. Got 30 ft Component cable from Blue Jean cables. Great service from them...Nice looking product!

So I will try to figure out what distance look the best with the projector, (free 100 inch screen from V/A coming also) run the cables etc, then mount to ceiling....

Any other tips for someone who has no HT clue like me?

Thanks for all your help..


Dan

I have a funny feeling that the "free" screen will be conducent to the old addage "you get what you pay for" - meaning it might not be worth hanging. I'm not sure, but JMHO.

Wolfie

Why do some people mention deals and dealers and get away with it, while others have their posts deleted? Hmmm...just wondering :-) My "free" screen developed waves the very first day, I'm using velcro to "tab tension" the thing. I'll probably wind up buying a fixed screen, waves drive me crazy!

Originally posted by billymac
if that's the case, then buying a stand-alone player wouldn't solve this problem for anybody running all their signals through a switch and over a vga cable like me
Correct.

But realize that you would ALSO have to buy a component-to-VGA transcoder for your hypothetical stand-alone player in order to do that. This is actually the setup I already had, but for other reasons. On my old projector, the VGA input produced a much better picture than the component, so I used VGA through a transcoder. When I first swapped in the H31 (again connecting via VGA), I noticed the tearing problem. When I switched out the transcoder and sent it the raw component straight from the stand-alone player, the tearing problem went away...

It sounds to me like the VGA port is expecting and/or optimized for "standard" PC signals. (which, I guess, makes sense).. It interpreted the transcoded signal from the stand-alone player as 640x480. With the VGA input, the H31 has signal timing adjustments you can tweak (actually, you HAVE to tweak them to get the DVD picture to fill the screen properly.) Perhaps these timing adjustments could be used to get rid of the tearing, though I never hit upon settings that helped. It was easier for me to just switch over to component.

Originally posted by GR ZIP
Hi all,

I jumped in and purchased a H31. Should be here soon. Got 30 ft Component cable from Blue Jean cables. Great service from them...Nice looking product!

So I will try to figure out what distance look the best with the projector, (free 100 inch screen from V/A coming also) run the cables etc, then mount to ceiling....

Any other tips for someone who has no HT clue like me?

Thanks for all your help..


Dan

What color walls do you have? What is your seating distance? What sourced do you have DVD, HD??

Originally posted by potus
Correct.

But realize that you would ALSO have to buy a component-to-VGA transcoder for your hypothetical stand-alone player in order to do that.

actually, that's not correct

i'm syncing HDTV and Xbox through a component switch with the output of the switch cabled with a component to VGA breakout cable. that cable plugs into a two-position manual switch box. with the other input being my htpc. before you start trouble-shooting the hardware though, believe me when i tell you, there's nothing in that mix that is causing the tearing. i've done all that testing already including direct connects and other projectors.

you can carrying component signals over a VGA cable and the projector will sync to it. i don't see this line or tearing with HDTV or Xbox this way. ONLY on the pc.

/edit

i should also add that for giggles and a total waste of time, i tried the audio authority transcoder and connected it to my VGA port on my PC and then to the H31 via both component cables and also via breakout component/vga cables. i couldn't get it to even sync (at any resolution). there were a couple times where it would pop up for a nanosecond, but then would quickly flash to the signal lost screen and then to no signal. i probably spent about an hour and a half messing with different timings too with no luck.

Originally posted by billymac
actually, that's not correct

i'm syncing HDTV and Xbox through a component switch with the output of the switch cabled with a component to VGA breakout cable. that cable plugs into a two-position manual switch box. with the other input being my htpc. before you start trouble-shooting the hardware though, believe me when i tell you, there's nothing in that mix that is causing the tearing. i've done all that testing already including direct connects and other projectors.

you can carrying component signals over a VGA cable and the projector will sync to it. i don't see this line or tearing with HDTV or Xbox this way. ONLY on the pc.

/edit

i should also add that for giggles and a total waste of time, i tried the audio authority transcoder and connected it to my VGA port on my PC and then to the H31 via both component cables and also via breakout component/vga cables. i couldn't get it to even sync (at any resolution). there were a couple times where it would pop up for a nanosecond, but then would quickly flash to the signal lost screen and then to no signal. i probably spent about an hour and a half messing with different timings too with no luck.

Well SURE, if you are actually sending component signals over a VGA cable, that is an entirely different story. The H31 does not seem to have any trouble with component input. Only VGA. VGA signal is a different signal. It has RGB instead of YCbCr... The pj DOES have problems with REAL VGA signals, EVEN IF they come from DVD player... That's all I was saying..

I thought you were saying you were switching REAL VGA signals (which might be convenient if you have component-less HTPC in the mix...)

If you are actually switchin component signals that happen to be delivered through a VGA cable, the H31 will have no trouble with this...

(Why would one do this, by the way? Are VGA switches cheaper and/or more affordable than component switches? Why not just use a component switch?)

yeah, good questions

someone got lazy and only installed a VGA cable and some CAT5e and an S-video cable during his basement remodel ;)

basically, until i get motivated enough to phish a dvi cable in my ceiling, i'm stuck with a single VGA run

i'm running all three signals over that single cable and since i'm not running component out from my htpc, i need that little 2-position switch.

i tried component out on my 6600GT but the image floated or in other words, you had to move the mouse all the way off the edge of the screen to get that part of the desktop to show. the one thing i didn't try was using different drivers with that setup and come to think of it i may try that if this ends up not going anywhere. i do seem to remember that the picture quality didn't seem quite as good, but that could have been pysch since i was bummed about the floating desktop.

am i understanding that you are using component out on your htpc? if so is it working well? are you seeing tearing?

Originally posted by GR ZIP
Hi all,

I jumped in and purchased a H31. Should be here soon. Got 30 ft Component cable from Blue Jean cables. Great service from them...Nice looking product!

So I will try to figure out what distance look the best with the projector, (free 100 inch screen from V/A coming also) run the cables etc, then mount to ceiling....

Any other tips for someone who has no HT clue like me?

Thanks for all your help..


Dan

Sounds good, what I do is have the PJ on and step back to find a ceiling stud where I'll still have a little play with the lens zooming. That screen has a mat white finish which should work good.

It's non tensioned but I have a NT mat white screen that got physical waves and I find when you have video on it you can't see shadow waves in the video. Mat white and high power are the best for this.

No, I don't have an HTPC. I suggested using VGA-to-component transcoder with HTPC to get rid of the tearing. This should theoretically work, but I imagine most HTPC users would rather get the DVI connection working instead.

I now see the usefullness of using VGA cable/switch. You can actually switch BETWEEN VGA signals and component signals using your VGA switchbox. AND since the H31 DOES accept component AND VGA signals through the DVI port, I think it could handle it too with a single point of connection. (provided you get the pinouts right...)

Anyways, sorry for the confusion. I completely misunderstood what you were getting at...

BTW. I ONLY hooked up my component cables through the RCA jacks. I don't know whether you would get the same results hooking it up through the DVI port. But I imagine internally, they end up connected to a common component input, so you should be ok.

i bet you may be on to something with the timing adjustments in the projector, i'll have to inevestigate that more. i quite honestly never saw them. is that like the phase and stuff? i'm leary to mess with that as i dont' know anything about it.

Unfortunately under the Image portion of the on screen menu, when you click on signal to get Horizontal, Vertical, Frequency, and Phase, you can only access these when you're viewing over VGA.

Wayne

If people are not able to Pixel Map over VGA (with the H31) then this is on par with the 4805 which leads me to think it is an issue in the newer TI chip itself and not any fault of Optoma/InFocus .

I am probably not going to find a Pixel Mapping solution for those of you using VGA as I do not think it is possible with these PJ's .

So it is probable that mapping will only work via DVI at this point . I will however do my best for those of you using VGA ;) .

------------ Jason

yeah, we already discussed that offline. if you can get it to map over dvi with no tearing, believe me, i'll be fisching a dvi/hdmi cable through my ceiling the weekend after i get the news. ****, i'll even buy you a beer or 12. ;) i just think you've got your work cut out for you though, and i'll be really surprised if it's even possible. consider that a challenge ;) the small thimble full of folks who were even able to get the thing to sync digitally see the tearing as well--just more clearly :D

when you going to get your hands on it? you in town over the holiday weekend? if so that would give you 72 hours to come up with a solution ;) just joshin, i wish you the best of luck and there are tons of people who hope you can do it.

no pressure :D

i think optoma should just give it to you if you make it work, that would be good incentive :D and from the sound of their tech support department, be more cost effective :D (sorry for the dig, but come on!)

Jason,

Yes, we're all behind you in this. Especially those of us who appreciate HTPCs. Please don't feel pressured in any way. Life will go on for us if it turn out that we can't use DVI with the H31 from a computer. It looks pretty good with my new Panny S97 which I bought as an 'insurance policy' just in case. It's an awesome projector just as the SP4805 is. We assume you're still enjoying yours??

The closest anyone yet has come to 1:1 over DVI on the H31 is Arty13 who has achieved 854 x 480 but it results in 6 stretched pixels down the right side. At least no one has reported on this thread any success beyond this that I'm aware of.

Were you ever able to go beyond 848 x 480 with the SP4805 or is that as close as you came to 854 x 480 with that unit?

Wayne

he's got the 4805 totally dialed in, but i can't remember at what res, his exact powerstrip timings are all over this board, just do a search. like he said, it's only possible via dvi and if i remember right the refresh it down around 48 or so.

billy,

According to Jason's website, his settings are '848x480 @ 47.952 Hz'. Unless he hasn't updated that info, it appears that 854 hasn't been attained yet on the SP4805. Has this changed?

Wayne

Well we shall see what happens , Tom stated that I should see it within about a week so it should be here by mid-week I would imagine (it does not have to travel very far, only a couple states) . Tom stated they are giving me a 45 day evaluation period to figure it out (if I can) . A keeper would be excellent but I am just trying to help out where I can and have no expectations for a free PJ :) .


Thank you for the information Wayne ;) .
-- The 848x480 resolution is due to the Graphics cards and not a limitation of the PJ's . I am mapped at 848x480 (just not 1:1 ;) ) .


------------- Jason

am i reading your last post right Jas? you're NOT 1:1 on the 4805?

i guess i don't get it. would a true 1:1 be 854x480 then? you're just not utilizing 3 rows on top and bottom then

i'm scratching my head, but whatever

i just hope you can do it :D

Jason,

It will be fascinating to get your perspective on the differences and similarities between the two competing pjs (4805 and H31). Also, if I may, you might be tempted to compare the H31 to the H30 which you have (had?) in your possession. I remember the H30 was the pj that stole your heart away from CRT. :) And then all the problems occurred with it and finally you gave up and went over to the dark side. :D I jest because I owned the X1 before buying the H31.

If you don't already know, Optoma Canada has my H31 in for testing to also try to figure out why I initially got the HTPC to send a digital signal to the H31 and then a week later, whamo! No signal detected. I have gone through two H31s now because of the same problems. They're also looking at the second issue which is the tearing lines.

In the meantime they've provided me with an H57 (nothing to do with ketchup :D ) and please let me know if during your testing you want me to try out something on the H57 (if I still have it by then). Who knows, there may be a linkage across the model lines.

Just to let you know, the tearing is quite evident on the H57 as well on VGA or DVI. Curiously, I have found it to be reduced significantly as long as I set the H57 to letterbox mode and feed it a 4:3 aspect ratio such as 1024 x 768.

I think they ought to 'donate' the 'loaner' unit to you for your time and trouble. After all, imagine what they'd have to spend to pay Wing to troubleshoot this? Think of all the money they're saving? It's got to be worth a free pj! :) :)

By the way, what do you think of the ATI Radeon X700 Pro? I tried it recently and really liked it but it too lost the connection to the H31. But while I had a picture it was fabulous. Also it was while using this card that I was able to basically eliminate the tearing issue by using PowerStrip and lowering the refresh rate to just under or just over 48Hz. Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to do much further observing or testing as it was three days after this that the H31 would no longer receive a DVI signal from the HTPC. Do you think there might be a connection to the lowered refresh rate and the H31 no longer accepting DVI from the HTPC?

Wayne

Originally posted by billymac
am i reading your last post right Jas? you're NOT 1:1 on the 4805?

i guess i don't get it. would a true 1:1 be 854x480 then? you're just not utilizing 3 rows on top and bottom then

i'm scratching my head, but whatever

i just hope you can do it :D


Correct , 1:1 would require 854x480 . But 848x480 is still pixel mapped , just as 640x480 would be in 4:3 fashion .

--------- Jason

Wayne ,

--- I appreciate the added information on the H31 issues . I will try to keep everybody up to date on my opinions of the H31 but what I am really after here is a solution to the DVI mapping issue ;) .

--- I know the loss of DVI issue is common with many DVI displays , so it is not something that only happens with the H31 . My only hope here is that DVI issue does not actually harm the Video source in any way (in my case a new GeForce 6600GT) .

--- I have no personal experience with the x700 but I have heard very good results from those that are using it .

--------- Jason

I've tried three different video cards, a monster cable DVI-D cable and a DVI-I cable and can only get signal displayed on the H31 from my HTPC with the DVI-A setting over the DVI-I cable.

The Monster DVI-D cable displayed a great signal from my cable box with HDTV when pressing the DVI-D button on the remote so I know that works from something other than an HTPC.

My theory (from my experience):

DVD players & HDTV boxes just output digital signal out their DVI ports, while the DVI port on a HTPC must detect an appropriate display device before "switching on" their digital output.

Some display devices are able to provide the kind of feedback these video cards need to "switch on" the digital output while some (H31) seem to be weak in this area.

The HTPC does not provide the user with any control over this, such as: "Always outpt digital over DVI". This kind of thing might be helpful.

When plugging a DVI-I cable into the HTPC it senses the extra pins (for analog) and automatically turns analog output on. The H31 sees this and syncs when the DVI-A button is pushed.

Originally posted by billymac
and from the sound of their tech support department, be more cost effective :D (sorry for the dig, but come on!)

Yes Billy release your anger... it will make you stronger! Embrace the Dark Side!

rbastedo ,

--- Good feedback , thank you for the information ;) .

--- I have 2 DVI cables here and both are DVI-D so I have my fingers crossed that one of them will work (they are both 5m cables) .

--------- Jason

Jason,

I'm hoping that any tidbit of information about DVI that rbastedo, billymac, Arty13, myself and any other regular to this thread can provide will help steer you toward a solution. Billymac hasn't yet connected a DVI cable, but over his VGA connection he has clearly seen the tearing lines that are driving us nuts. It's basically unwatchable from a computer because of this (depending on your level of tolerance).

So there are the three issues. Getting a digital signal to work at all (rbastedo), getting the signal to stay (myself), and getting any signal at all from an HTPC to exhibit a picture without the scrolling and darting lines
(everyone who's posted and used an HTPC).

Just to let you know, I use a 15 meter (49 foot) Ultralink Pro DVI-D cable which is presently alternating between my Panny S97 and the HTPC. No drop-outs (I did finish High School :D ) and no sparklies. While I have had the H57 in my home as a loaner to replace my H31 in for evaluation, I have had no trouble getting a signal from this cable and the HTPC. Of course I had no trouble doing the same with the H31 for 7 days until it stopped but this info is for you so that you'll know that even very long cables such as mine are working to deliver digital signals to Optoma projectors from any digital source, at least on occasion. :D

Wayne

Originally posted by HiHoStevo
Yes Billy release your anger... it will make you stronger! Embrace the Dark Side!

hee hee, i know, i know :D

Guys, I've been actually looking at the DVDO iScan HD+
High Resolution Video Scaling Engine as a possible solution to this syncing/tearing problem with the H31 and HTPCs. It's ghastly expensive (MSRP $1499.99 U.S.) but it appears that it mimics a lot of the functions found in ffdshow post-processing software.

One control in particular which caught my eyes is the one whereby you can tell the iScan unit which type of DVI signal is being sent to it. It has a setting for DVI video from DVD players and a separate setting for DVIP which alerts the unit to the fact that a distinct digital signal is being sent from a Personal Computer.

Rick(rbastedo),

I think you possibly hit the nail on the head in your post. The H31 may be set up to sync with a video digital signal and perhaps it isn't looking for a digital signal native to computers. If this is the case, would it be possible to correct this via a firmware upgrade or going into the service menu to adjust a certain parameter?

Here is the information as it's laid out in the manual of the DVDO iScan:

Output Setup Menu

Output Setup FPD shows Description

Analog or Digital Output A/D Pushing the down arrow button
shows the current output type.
Pushing the down arrow button
again selects the next item on the
list shown below. You can also use
the up arrow button to cycle
through the output types.

VGA Analog Output (VGA-type
HD15)

DVID DVI output for displays that
require video signal levels.

DVIP DVI output for displays that
require PC signal levels.

Wayne

Question for you all HTPC...

do you think that the MB chipsets might have anything to do with "our" problem(s) with the H31? well here are some of my info, lets see how much they differ from others, maybe it might be hardware in some areas...


MotherBoard
DFI Lanparty 875
--Intel® 875P chipset
- Intel® 82875P Memory Controller Hub (MCH)
- Intel® 82801ER I/O Controller Hub (ICH5R)
-- http://www.htpcnews.com/main.php?id=dfi_875_3 (the rest here)
ATI Radeon 9600 Pro
--Cat. 5.3
--Integrated 165 MHz TMDS transmitter (DVI 1.0 compliant)
--MPEG-2 decoding with motion compensation, iDCT and color space conversion
--*16:9 aspect ratio monitors are supported on 1920x1080 and 848x480 on Windows® XP, Windows® 2000 and Windows® ME. The complete list of resolutions depends on the driver version and operating system. NOTE: resolutions are limited by the performance of the attached monitor.
-- http://www.ati.com/products/radeon9600/radeon9600pro/specs.html (the rest here)

I have Windows XP Pro SP2 installed
---(build 2600.xpsp_sp2_gdr.050301-1519 : Service Pack 2)

PowerStrip 3.58 Build 502

Have DivX Total Pack installed
have FFDSHOW and DDScaler installed(not using them yet)

Have WinDVD 6 installed
have ZOOMPlayer installed using WinDVD

i'm using a 5M DVI-I cable from CablesToGo(cheaper)

have only one display, the H31(primary)
and disabled VGA to my monitor, because it will not sync right with 854x480

I get Tearing on 60Hz, but when i change the freq. to anything else the tearing goes away, right now i have it on 61Hz, i think i've seen the tearing though a couple of times during this one divx movie, but had it on 71Hz and saw no tearing at all.

well post some of your chips and stuff like i did, maybe we can pinpoint it to something else... And if you want me to try anything just let me know and i will...

Also Jason, if you have any question i could help you with let me know, there are pictures of some of my screen shots with the streching in my gallery, Also why is 848x480 pixel mapped? can you explain this? thanks

Arty

A newbie mounting question here...(several actually):

Does using the lens zoom effect the vertical offset of the projected image? The manual states the offset (lens center to image bottom distance) as (throw distance * tan(7.42)). Is this zoomed all the way in or out...or does it matter? I suspect zooming in would increase the image on both the top and the bottom thus decreasing the offset. Correct? Any idea how much if so?

Also, If I mounted this about 12 feet away for about a 100" screen and had to tilt the projector to move the screen about 6" vertically...how much would the image distort if I had to use keystone adjustment?

And lastly...what is the minimum lens center to ceiling distance you can get (with what mount)? I was specifically wondering about the ebay PDR mount with the extension removed.

Thanks,

- Jason

Originally posted by javajaws
A newbie mounting question here...(several actually):

Does using the lens zoom effect the vertical offset of the projected image? The manual states the offset (lens center to image bottom distance) as (throw distance * tan(7.42)). Is this zoomed all the way in or out...or does it matter? I suspect zooming in would increase the image on both the top and the bottom thus decreasing the offset. Correct? Any idea how much if so?Jason, this is a quick reply as I have to go to work very soon... Theoretically, the offset should not be affected by the zoom ratio, but unfortunately it does! As the image size increases, so does the vertical offset. With my very short projection distance, the offset changes by a few inches (maybe 3 or 4). I think, this value will increase with projection distance. Hopefully, somebody with 12' projection distance will answer your question.

Mike

Hey guys, remember I said the Bravo D2 would work with 854X480. Here's a layout of whats going on.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h31customset1.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h31customset2.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h31customset3.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h31customset4.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h31customset5.jpg

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h31customset6.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h31customset7.jpg

Movies play very good, image looks clean.

Quick Question for you HTPC users,
Have any of you tried to do 1708x480?
i just did, movie looks just as good, but windows is sooo squished right now... this res. is only good for watching movies... and also i get no streching of any pixels... so this could also be a good choice if you want to keep good pixel ratio with no blurring :D

Arty

Originally posted by MikeSer
Jason, this is a quick reply as I have to go to work very soon... Theoretically, the offset should not be affected by the zoom ratio, but unfortunately it does! As the image size increases, so does the vertical offset. With my very short projection distance, the offset changes by a few inches (maybe 3 or 4). I think, this value will increase with projection distance. Hopefully, somebody with 12' projection distance will answer your question.

Mike

Now that's really weird. You would think if the lens stays on the same axis the angle would remain the same...so if you zoom to make the picture larger you would think the "offset" would be less...not more (since the picture would enlarge equally on top and bottom). The height difference between a 100" and 83" diag (min/max at 12') would be about 9"...half that would be 4.5". So I would (theoretically) expect the offset when zoomed for a 100" image to be 4.5" less than the offset when zoomed for a 83" image.

Am I nuts? Is this not how it works? Can someone else confirm/deny this?

- Jason

The published offfset is probably at the center of the zoom range, and _should_ change with zoom factor. The offset as a percentage of image height, however, should remain constant. So for a larger image, you will get a proportionally larger offset... make sense? The ONLY time the offset won't depend on zoom is if it is zero degrees...

I would think the offset ratio is constant, relative to screen size and distance (between screen and projector).

So, lets say you have a projector @ 10ft distance, with 65" wide pic (zoomed in for max pic size), with an 8" offset.

Then, you move the projector back to 12ft, image is now large @ 80" wide, but then you zoom out for smallest pic size of 65" (same size as 10ft distance). The offset should still be 8".

I think.

Fleaman

Potus and fleaman, you guys sound like you really know what you are saying.

Is the info. at the bottom of the H31 manual plain wrong?
It shows the offset from the bottom of the image as a fixed (so I thought) angle A = 7.42 degrees.
The vertical offset equation (for the bottom of the image) is L x Tan(A) so it should not change
unless the projection distance (L) changes. Experience shows this is not the case.

I still don't understand why the offset increases with the image size...

Mike

Mike .... I am not sure it does.......

On my BenQ 8700+... when I run HDTV to the unit I see a small white moving line at the very top of the screen... I am told this is actually part of the audio signal and is not supposed to be seen.

So I thought great, I will just adjust the zoom a bit so that the picture moves out in all four directions just unto the black of my screen frame and thereby hide the little white line..............

WRONG!

The top of the image stayed exactly where it was and only the sides and bottom moved with the zoom.

Now this is my BenQ... but I might offer a guess that perhaps the H31 does the same thing.

Has anyone actually tried this with a ceiling mounted fixed position? Does the zoom expand in all four directions?

Originally posted by MikeSer
Potus and fleaman, you guys sound like you really know what you are saying.

Is the info. at the bottom of the H31 manual plain wrong?
It shows the offset from the bottom of the image as a fixed (so I thought) angle A = 7.42 degrees.
The vertical offset equation (for the bottom of the image) is L x Tan(A) so it should not change
unless the projection distance (L) changes. Experience shows this is not the case.

I still don't understand why the offset increases with the image size...

Mike
Actually, looking at the H31 manual again, the first line says that throw-ratio is 1.64. This means the numbers stated are "fixed" only for that particular setting of the zoom. So the angles WILL change for different zoom factors/throw ratios. The H31 throw-ratio varies from 1.64 to 2.0. Based on the 1.64 numbers, we can use trig to calculate the angle at other TRs. At 2.0 throw ratio (smallest zoomed image size) the angle A will be 6.1 degrees. (bottom of image will move down...)

Personally, I find it easier to use a calculation based on ratio of image height. H' = offset factor * H. For the H31, the "offset factor" is 0.38. So H' = 0.38 * H. This formula does NOT depend on zoom setting or throw ratio. Only H, the final projected vertical size of the image.

- Frank

PS. HiHoStevo.. I suspect the BenQ has zero offset. That means "offset factor" is 0, and H' = 0 * H. i.e. H' is zero for ALL image sizes. This would explain what you saw when you zoomed it.

A newbie mounting question here...(several actually):

Does using the lens zoom effect the vertical offset of the projected image? The manual states the offset (lens center to image bottom distance) as (throw distance * tan(7.42)). Is this zoomed all the way in or out...or does it matter? I suspect zooming in would increase the image on both the top and the bottom thus decreasing the offset. Correct? Any idea how much if so?
Jason,
This time I measured the vertical image shift (instead of guessing it) and I estimated the value for a 12' projection distance. I think, it is 3 inches between the two zoom extremes. So for a ceiling mount, the projected image will shift down 3 inches when zooming from the longest to the shortest throw-ratio zoom.

Mike

Potus,

Thank you for the explanation. It does makes sense now.
I guess, Optoma wants people to hire professionals in order to install their budget H31 projectors...

Mike

I watched several dark scenes of Daredevil movie recorded from HBO HD channel. For the first time, I got really bothered by rainbow effects. Although they were very brief and caused no headaches (no pun intended), they disrupted the movie. I must say, my enthusiasm for the H31 dissipated quite a bit after that...

Edit:
Would a higher color-wheel speed reduce the problem?
I am afraid, the problem will alwasy exist with a single-chip design.

Mike

The movie: The Fifth Element (TFE) Superbit

The Story

1. While waiting for the DVD-S77, I played TFE on my 480i Sony player.
The movie looked very good, but I was bothered by softness in several scenes.

2. After receiving the DVD-S77 and while waiting for HDMI/DVI adapter,
I played the movie via very short component cables. I thought, the movie
looked great.

3. I hooked up the HDMI cable + adapter and selected enhanced black
level on the DVD player. My first impression was: WOW!

The Problem
Using 480p output from the DVD-S77 over DVI connection, the image
looks "too sharp!'' The pixellation/SDE became apparent for the first time!
Switching to 720p output results in a clearly much softer image.
I am not happy with either one.

Any helpul ideas?
Thanks!

Mike

Potus,

Thank you for the explanation. It does makes sense now.
I guess, Optoma wants people to hire professionals in order to install their budget H31 projectors...

Mike


well call me a professional then :)

anyway, i put mine on the floor, projected the image, turned it upside down, figured the distance i wanted, so i could make it smaller/larger

used a three way laser to straighten it all out

mounted it on the ceiling, adjusted it so no keystone, marked the corners, mounted the screen - diy 5/8" mdf painted with behr upw

adjusted the screen with shims until it was flat.

whew, a lot of work? maybe but it sure looks nice!

btw my projector is about 12' back also

David

The movie: The Fifth Element (TFE) Superbit

The Story


The Problem
Using 480p output from the DVD-S77 over DVI connection, the image
looks "too sharp!'' The pixellation/SDE became apparent for the first time!
Switching to 720p output results in a clearly much softer image.
I am not happy with either one.

Any helpul ideas?
Thanks!

Mike

focus? blur it? reduce the sharpening setting on the projector? stand farther back?

i might be all wet but isn't sde (those peskey lines between the pixels) different from pixelation (seeing those nice sharp squares).

funny story on my part, been looking at DLP projectors for years with presentations and never was aware of SDE, rainbows or the like. Never seen a rainbow either, lucky me? or ignorant me.....

very interesting story as i have a S77 on order so maybe i will have a better idea when it arrives!

At least i know it works with the H31, thanks!

How do you like the combo otherwise, too sharp, wahoo, i could live with that.

David

Wayne,

After you painted your back wall did you lose the glaze off your high powered screen. I still have all my walls off white and hoping when I paint them next weekend it will reduce the glaze. What black did you use, just flat black?

Hi Lenny,

It worked like a charm. I don't know for sure if it would help with a non retro-reflective screen but because of the properties of High Power screens, it's important that the area around your projector isn't shiny or bright because that will reflect directly back onto your screen. I saw this firsthand and it's horrible. The difference is quite astounding!

So, yes the filmy haze that was ruining the contrast ratio and blacks has completely gone now since painting.

The paint that was used was of course a flat black and it's called Dulux: Weather Guard latex 100% acrylic. Also, it's an outdoor paint. This will last longer and endure better my poking around in that area when I fiddle with cables and re-position the projector. Also, we had to cover green paint and it would have taken 3 or 4 coats if we'd used an indoor paint. We only had to use 2 coats of the outdoor so the process was less time consuming. This paint cures in 30 days. After that you can wash it, or scrub it and it apparently won't be any worse off.

You will have to re-calibrate with AVIA or DVE after you paint. The before and after readings can be quite dramatically different which proves that white/off-white walls do a real number on your screen. Also, if you're using a gray screen now like I was before when all my walls were off-white, you'll have to change screens to something like a matte white or high power because the gray screen will be way too dark when the walls aren't light anymore. Trust me, this happened in my home and we had to go to a brighter screen. We bought a high power and it worked very well with the darker walls. Now with the back wall black it's even better. I had the X1 before and it's not as bright as the H31 so I didn't need to paint then but the Optoma definitely changed that.

Wayne

Thanks Wayne, I do have a M2500 High Powered screen. I love the picture on it, but the glaze was the first thing I noticed. I assumed it was the ambient light from the room, it is especially noticable on 2.35:1 movies with a bright scene and the bars just look like a Krispy Kreme donut.... Thanks for the advise, I'll post some pictures after the weekend.

No problem Lenny. Looking forward to those photos! :)

Wayne

I've finally had it with my wavey pull-down, I'm going with a Carada fixed screen. Problem is, I can't tell from the samples which material is best. I know the gray is too dark, but would I be better off with the classic white or the brilliant white? My screen will be 100" diag, HDTV, at 13.7 ft from the PJ. Seating will be below the PJ, and the room is fairly well light controlled. I like a punchy picture, but don't want to lose black levels or gain a hotspot. Anyone have some tips? Thanks!

What is the Gain of the brilliant white?

According to Carada the brilliant white is 1.4, the classic white is 1.0. The brilliant costs a bit more, but is said to be thicker.

So does anybody here have any comments on using keystone adjustment? From my calculations I think I'll have to tilt the projector (if/when I buy it) to move the picture about 6" vertically (on a 100" diag picture) to fit in my room correctly. Will the keystone adjustment make a noticeable difference in the picture quality?

Thanks,

- Jason

P.S. - Thanks for all the answers on the offset stuff...it helps.

javajaws- I needed to tip mine also and use a 9 setting for the keystone, which seems like a lot but I see no loss in picture quality. I'm 14ft or so back projecting to a 106" diag screen, ceiling mnt.:D

purdyd- I agree that this projector is way easy to set up. I have a pulldown screen hanging from a drop ceiling took all of 10min. to put up. The projector hangs from rafters above the ceiling on a mount I bought for $75 ran my cables for both sound and projector in a hour. Turned the projector on slid it around till the picture was square and thats it. Now granted I eyeballed the screen and projector but I'm square to the walls and ceiling and everyone whose's seen the H31 run wants to buy one. The set up can be as easy or as hard as a person wants.

I think people looking at a front projectors should know It's not to difficult to do themselves...by my experence it was very easy and I couldn't be happier with the results.....my 2 cents...

tomgarz :)

the effect on PQ with the use of keystone controls may not be as evident with video, tv and/or dvd, but you can certainly see the negative effect of it with a pc desktop. it's best not to use any if you can.

Can anyone comment on how a 16:9 Windows XP desktop looks on the H31? Especially if I go to 1280x720? My HTPC will be for Sage (SDTV viewing), DVDs, and web surfing, games, XLobby. So the fonts need to be very readable, though I'm concerned that pushing 1280x720 through the H31 will be too much. And I don't think that 854x480 is enough resolution for satisfactory web surfing and XLobby real estate.

At the same time, since my viewing is primarily SDTV and DVDs, I'm hesitant to throwing a lot more money to step up to a Z3 or similar for the 720p.

According to Carada the brilliant white is 1.4, the classic white is 1.0. The brilliant costs a bit more, but is said to be thicker.

Personally, If you have a dark room with darker walls go with the 1.4 gain. It'll add that pop, and blacks will still be fine. My blacks look good on my 2.0 gain, just a little glaze from my white walls that show the glare (sheen I guess the call it). Like Wayne did paint the reflective areas (back wall) black and that glaze should go away. With the 2.0 gain I see a little hotspotting but not noticable when a picture is thrown, only on full black screens...It's a non issue to me. The gain actually makes the SDE less noticable, so say I saw it at 9' I now see it at 7 1/2' or so. My biggest complaint about the gain was I started noticing Rainbows in areas like the credits of movies, Black scenes with white lettering and such...but it's not bad and the pros far out weigh the cons. Take advantage of the beautiful colors and the deep blacks the H31 throws and go with the brilliant white. :D

Thanks for the opinion, I was leaning towards the brilliant white myself. I didn't want to make a costly mistake, but I don't think I can go wrong with the slightly higher gain. You're right about the H31, very nice picture! AND, I still haven't seen a rainbow! (I'm not looking too hard for them)

Can anyone comment on how a 16:9 Windows XP desktop looks on the H31? Especially if I go to 1280x720? My HTPC will be for Sage (SDTV viewing), DVDs, and web surfing, games, XLobby. So the fonts need to be very readable, though I'm concerned that pushing 1280x720 through the H31 will be too much. And I don't think that 854x480 is enough resolution for satisfactory web surfing and XLobby real estate.

At the same time, since my viewing is primarily SDTV and DVDs, I'm hesitant to throwing a lot more money to step up to a Z3 or similar for the 720p.


Archerkit,
with 16x9 in windows XP it looks fine, but the higher the res. the smaller everything gets, making it harder to see/read text. Right now i use 854x480 and its a great size for everything, i use it for all my pc needs, i even use XLobby. sometimes i wish i would go a little larger in resolution just to be able to see more for internet browsing, but overall i have no complaints about the size with 854x480. as far as 1280x720 goes, things are alot smaller, but you will still be fine with this resolution, i can still read my text fine(this forum), i'm 12 feet away, the only complaint i have about this is with the text, if you look closely it see some blurring just because its not 1:1 pixel mapped, but overall this will work just fine, if you dont like it at 1280x720 go to 854x480(if you can) you will like it either way. you cant go wrong with this projector, well at lest that's how i feel
:D
Arty

I am a newbie to projectors. I just bought the H31, and when I turned it on I noticed 1 black and 1 white horizontal line scroll from the bottom of the screen to the top. The lines hit the top of the screen and then come back off of the bottom of the screen. Does anybody know if this is normal for the unit, and if not is it something I have to adjust, or is it a defective unit?

I am a newbie to projectors. I just bought the H31, and when I turned it on I noticed 1 black and 1 white horizontal line scroll from the bottom of the screen to the top. The lines hit the top of the screen and then come back off of the bottom of the screen. Does anybody know if this is normal for the unit, and if not is it something I have to adjust, or is it a defective unit?

Is it during a source feed like a DVD player or HTPC? Can you try different input feeds? This doesn't sound normal.

I am a newbie to projectors. I just bought the H31, and when I turned it on I noticed 1 black and 1 white horizontal line scroll from the bottom of the screen to the top. The lines hit the top of the screen and then come back off of the bottom of the screen. Does anybody know if this is normal for the unit, and if not is it something I have to adjust, or is it a defective unit?

You might have a ground loop.

Try lifting the ground on your H31's power cord (with one of those ground lift adapter plugs). Or, even before you do that, unplug on your inputs (dvi, component, etc.) from the H31 and turn the projector on with only the pwr cable connected and see if the lines go away. If they do, try the ground lift and see if that solves it.

Fleaman

Thanks for all the help. I removed the RCA video cable and replaced it with a component hook up and the lines went away, thanks.

i have been reading about htpc hookup and the h31 and the problems some (most?) are having with DVI-D

it seems the holy grail would be 1:1 pixel mapping at 854x480 for 16:9 display

it seems that the DVD players work,

however, is it not true that DVD players output 720x480, which is afterall the resolution of the DVD (for NTSC anyway, at least most) over the DVI????

then the optoma would scale this input to 854x480 or 655 x 480 etc.

Wouldn't this be better anyway?

David

David,

I guess it depends on what you've experienced. The scaler in the H31 is quite good in my opinion and it does show a very nice image from a good DVD player. I have presently in my home the LG7832/ZenithDB318 and Panasonic S97 upconverting players. I use both at 1920 x 1080. This may soften the image a tiny bit due to the nature of upconverting in the player and then downconverting via the scaler in the projector. However, the overall effect is pleasing to the eye and can be a nice change from straight 720 x 480 being fed to the H31. It would appear that not upconverting renders a miniscule bonus in sharpness so you go with what you like best on a given day I suppose.

Unless you have an expensive scaler such as the DVDO iScan HD(+), you probably won't attain the levels of sharpness and noise reducing effects of an HTPC. This is where a computer as a DVD source shines. It's mighty tough after getting used to an HTPC to go back to a DVD player. I haven't had the fun of messing around with a scaler attached to a DVD player yet so I might be inclined to admit a draw image-wise between the two competing ways of displaying an image but that remains to be seen.

The problem with 1:1 pixel mapping is that you can't always achieve it on a given projector. So far we can't call Arty13's success in this area a breakthrough for the rest of us because I don't recall any other H31/HTPC user achieving 854 x 480 and even then, Arty is experiencing 6 stretched pixels down the right side which he has to hide by masking/zooming. Also, you have to delve into the PowerStrip program on a computer which can REALLY mess things up in your display device if you're not careful so it's user beware!

So the only way that I know of so far to get 1:1 pixel mapping without problems @ 854 x 480 is to use the Bravo D2 DVD player. Tom/Guitarman has shown us that it's something that apparently we all could do if we had that player. We shouldn't have to buy a particular player though in order to do this.

But the ease of use of a DVD player is a strong argument in it's favor after having worked with an HTPC now for 7 months. So you pick your poison. :)

Wayne

Hello, I am looking at buying the H31 projector within the next few days, but I want to make sure that it will perform good for me in my situation. My room is a 10'x13' and lighiting can be controlled. I was looking to get about a 90" or larger screen size. But some1 told me that the picture wouldnt look as good because i would only be sitting about 12' away from the screen. Any info on this? Im planning on mounting the projector about 12.5 ft from the screen well basically it will be mounted on one wall while the screen on the other 13 ft away. any suggestions on any other projectors or is the H31 a good choice?

Thanks

-JMAN-

Hello, I am looking at buying the H31 projector within the next few days, but I want to make sure that it will perform good for me in my situation. My room is a 10'x13' and lighiting can be controlled. I was looking to get about a 90" or larger screen size. But some1 told me that the picture wouldnt look as good because i would only be sitting about 12' away from the screen. Any info on this? Im planning on mounting the projector about 12.5 ft from the screen well basically it will be mounted on one wall while the screen on the other 13 ft away. any suggestions on any other projectors or is the H31 a good choice?

Thanks

-JMAN-

If your room is 10X13....are you sure your head will be about 12 feet? Sometimes you end up sitting 2-3 feet away from a wall, even if your chair is up next to it. My couch, if it was on a wall that was 13 feet from the screen, would put me about 10 feet from the screen when I sit in it. It may sound like little, but 1-2 feet can make a difference.

12 feet away from a 92 inch screen is to close for me to say you will or will not have a problem. I have two seats that are on each side of my main couch, that are about 11.5 feet away, and for me it is a tad to close (92" screen) but for my wife and brother they think it is great. For me it is right at the 13 foot mark that I can no longer see any SD. So if you are going to be 12 feet away, and you had my eyes it would be ok (with only a few problems on white text/walls during movies) but if you have better eyes, or you just focus in on little things more you might need about 14-15.

If you don't have a screen, just run the projector on your wall and make the image the biggest you can get before you can see the SD, then buy a screen that size. If you do not have white walls, go buy some white paper at a Hobby store, and make a temp. screen with it, to test how big you can get. This would be your best move.

Anyone here know if the new Sony Chromavue black screen works with the H31, I want to use mine in some higher ambient light conditions with better black levels, I heard that Projectorcentral was going to review this screen this summer, but wondered if anyone has used the h31 with this screen and how it looks, Thanks WC05

Anyone here know if the new Sony Chromavue black screen works with the H31, I want to use mine in some higher ambient light conditions with better black levels, I heard that Projectorcentral was going to review this screen this summer, but wondered if anyone has used the h31 with this screen and how it looks, Thanks WC05

Wildcat, I too had more than a passing curiosity about the Chromavue. It's the puny 80" size Sony elected to go with. Most members willing to set aside 2K on a screen are likely to have 100 to 120" inch setups (or more).
I can't speak for everyone, as 80 inches will be doable for some. Just not me.

Here's a novel idea: stacked H31s. Don't laugh. It's popular in the CRT camp where convergence IS a big issue.
Should I mention blended images? I saw this one in some expo...talk about wide screen...

Anyone here know if the new Sony Chromavue black screen works with the H31, I want to use mine in some higher ambient light conditions with better black levels, I heard that Projectorcentral was going to review this screen this summer, but wondered if anyone has used the h31 with this screen and how it looks, Thanks WC05

You do know that screen is $2,000 :eek: :eek: :eek:

I doubt that anyone with that screen would have a H31....H79 maybe, but H31?

EDIT: CMRA beat me to it. Got a phone call and posted a little late...

Fleaman

Those of you using HTPC's with the H31 might want to try 848x480 instead of 854x480 (854 is not done properly by most Graphics cards even if they will produce it with newer drivers/powerstrip) .


*** Still no sign of the H31 here but I will let everyone know when it shows up (if it does) ;) . ***

------------- Jason

yeah, was running 848x480 on mine and the image looks terrific.

dangit, you better get it! don't say that! you're getting me all riled up again.

guitarman, any way to confirm this thing went out? get a tracking number something?

still no word from optoma on my end. pretty ridiculous

I got a H31 and Momitsu V880DX on the way....the Momitsu can do custom dvi resolutions, so I'll try 848, 854 and some upscaling tests in the next 1 to 2 weeks.

I don't expect any problems since Guitarman had no issues (other than cable lengths) with his Bravo D2 and I think the Momitsu has the same chip.

Gonna take quite a bit of a hit selling my H30....oh well.

Fleaman

Sounds good Fleaman,

Bookmark this site if you haven't.
http://home1.gte.net/res18h39/customdvi.htm

The H31 and Bravo was working with just about anything I threw at it. Next time I'll try lowering the 75hz down to 59hz, that will probably work also. Some resolutions did get total tearing, the ones doing 2.2 48hz I think. I got a new cable on the way to see if I can clear up the long cable run.

Re the H30, I wouldn't let the low ball I want out sales effect your pricing. The H30 is still a unique machine. You know it will do 800X600 4.3 and 480p. I still like the way it will shoot 16.9 480p down to the lower half of the screen. Nothing wrong with the H30 for someone that needs 4.3. Gamers I think could benifit.

Those of you using HTPC's with the H31 might want to try 848x480 instead of 854x480 (854 is not done properly by most Graphics cards even if they will produce it with newer drivers/powerstrip) .


*** Still no sign of the H31 here but I will let everyone know when it shows up (if it does) ;) . ***

------------- Jason
I curious to know the ship date also and put a call in to his mesg service today. I assume Harvey already has it shipped out. Be back when I hear from him.

Jason Harvey is sending one out tomorrow. Since you're close maybe you'll hv it before the weekend.

i have had the h31 for almost 4 months and i am really happy with it, the picture is amazing and everybody who watches a movie at my place wants one of these, im so glad i didnt buy a rear dlp projection tv, and this was cheaper too.

With that said the only problem im having know is that there is a horizontal line that it see go down the screen while viewing movies only. I believe it is to do with the refresh rate but im not sure what refresh rate will get rid of this.

Thanks for the help ahead of time

Trevor

Hi Guys,

Does anybody have the new Panny S77 DVD player?

I connected the DVD player to H31 via HDMI cable that came with the player + HDMI/DVI adapter.
The below black level is no longer visible regardless of selected HDMI options and brightness/contrast settings.

Can anybody explain this?
Thanks!

Mike

Sounds good Fleaman,

Bookmark this site if you haven't.
http://home1.gte.net/res18h39/customdvi.htm

The H31 and Bravo was working with just about anything I threw at it. Next time I'll try lowering the 75hz down to 59hz, that will probably work also. Some resolutions did get total tearing, the ones doing 2.2 48hz I think. I got a new cable on the way to see if I can clear up the long cable run.

Re the H30, I wouldn't let the low ball I want out sales effect your pricing. The H30 is still a unique machine. You know it will do 800X600 4.3 and 480p. I still like the way it will shoot 16.9 480p down to the lower half of the screen. Nothing wrong with the H30 for someone that needs 4.3. Gamers I think could benifit.

Thanks for that dvi site info, I had already made a note of that site in the past.

My current H30 is a C07 firmware, so it does the 16:9 at the top of the 4:3 box, I don't like it, especially since my ceiling mount had to be dropped like 14" over my old C05 firmware H30. Now that I went through the hassle of changing my set up over the C05 firmware, I guess the H31 should slip right in nicely (but I still don't like the projector hanging that low...I have medium-high ceilings). While many complain about the heavy offset of the H31, I don't think it has enough! Those with higher ceilings need the large offsets.

I also don't do any 4:3 on the projector, hence the desire to go H31 with dvi and corresponding dvi dvd player. I currently have the Panny XP30 with region free mod that I might sell on evil-bay (or if anyone else might be interested?).

I have no games either! Imagine that! I was a pretty big gamer when it cost me quarters :) , but just don't seem to have the time to get into what seems to be some pretty awesome games out there. But I might check out the PS3 or new Xbox or whatever that comes out later in the year. They might all be widescreen by then anyways?

Fleaman

i have had the h31 for almost 4 months and i am really happy with it, the picture is amazing and everybody who watches a movie at my place wants one of these, im so glad i didnt buy a rear dlp projection tv, and this was cheaper too.

With that said the only problem im having know is that there is a horizontal line that it see go down the screen while viewing movies only. I believe it is to do with the refresh rate but im not sure what refresh rate will get rid of this.

Thanks for the help ahead of time

Trevor

Moving horizontal lines could mean a ground loop problem. Use a cheat plug, one that turns three prong into two.

Jason Harvey is sending one out tomorrow. Since you're close maybe you'll hv it before the weekend.

Tom (and H31/HTPC users) ,

--- I talked to Harvey a little while ago and he sounds like a very nice guy but I am going to have to decline on the H31 being sent to me for testing . I have to sign and return a form that makes me totally liable for the unit (damages or lost equipment) . As you can understand I am just trying to be of some help here and cannot be held liable for a $1k+ Projector . I mean if something happens to this unit during shipping then I am held accountable ... I just cannot do it , sorry . I do understand the reasons for them operating in this manner under normal circumstances but at the same time there are too many ways this unit could sustain damage for me to then be liable for it (and thus billed for the unit if something were to happen to it) . I mean if a lamp blows while in my possesion then I am liable ? I hope you all understand why I cannot do this .

--- So I must apologize to those of you that were counting on me to look into the HTPC issues , I am very sorry :( .


--------- Best Wishes All ,
---------------- Jason

ugh

that is not good news at all. tom, isn't there anything you can do?

total f'ing lameness. i knew this wouldn't work out. we're doomed. we're all doomed i tell ya. seriously though this totally sucks. the CS manager already planted the seed that they're going to come back with a statement not supporting pc. i could be wrong but i think that's where it's headed. if that's the case, it's pretty misleading. and for god's sake why bother including a vga adapter.

Geez, you would think with your history and respect, they would exempt you from that liability form. Especially since your doing R&D (in a sense) for FREE!

I mean, come-on!

Oh well. Maybe Guitarman can do something about that.

Fleaman

Well it is not a big deal guys , Optoma has legit reasons for doing business that way and I do not hold it against them .

Maybe somebody that already owns the H31 will end up digging a bit deeper ;) .

--------- Best of Luck ,
------------ Jason

I understand Optoma's reasons, but they're a big company and their cost on a H31 (if they ever lost it) is very low, especially when you consider all the man hrs they will have to put into solving this problem, dealing with customers with tech support on this problem, and losing customers to this problem.

Seemed like a no-brainer to me as a business decision.

Fleaman

I understand Optoma's reasons, but they're a big company and their cost on a H31 (if they ever lost it) is very low, especially when you consider all the man hrs they will have to put into solving this problem, dealing with customers with tech support on this problem, and losing customers to this problem.

Seemed like a no-brainer to me as a business decision.

Fleaman

Good points but consider that they are willing to send me a demo unit (in order for me to try and help out) , it is me that is not willing to (possibly) put my bank account on the line ;) .

--- I don't want anybody being upset with Optoma for this as it is me alone that has decided to decline the 45 day evaluation offer based upon the details of the demo unit . If I were a wealthy guy then I wouldn't be too worried about it but as it stands I am not . Most of you do not know that my son is autistic and for this reason I cannot even consider taking the risk of being billed for the demo H31 as every penny counts and is usually very much needed ;) .


---- Best Wishes ,
--------- Jason
:o

Let's Help DaGamePimp

Jason, I would be willing to help to back you up financially in this. I think that if enough of us would send you a small cheque/money order to help you, there would be virtually no risk should something happen to the unit.

This isn't meant to be misconstrued as 'charity'. No. We're all in this together as a community of projector enthusiasts and even non Optoma customers ought to get involved with this because it could happen to Infocus, BenQ, Nec etc... as well.

You could consider it as remuneration for your efforts. If you are able to solve our problem then it would be money well spent. If you aren't, it still would be worth paying you for the time and effort expended.

If 20 people on this thread would agree/commit to sending you $50.00 would that help? I would do this in a heartbeat. Even if only 10 people will do it, I think I'd still send you $100.00. As a matter of fact, if enough of us can help you out, why don't you just buy a brand new unit and keep it. Then, you'll have longer than 45 days to figure out the problems and you'll also own the H31.

What do you say guys? Especially those of you who like me are/have been frustrated with the H31 in conjunction with HTPCs. Time to put up or shut up.

This may die or it may go somewhere but at least I've broached the subject and we'll see if anyone else steps up to the plate. We need somewhere between 10 and 20 people in order to make this work.

Count me in.

Wayne

Count me in for $10 or so.

Thanks 1Time! Every donation counts no matter the amount.

Who else will respond? Come on everyone. Let's make this happen. :)

We're up to $60.00 already in just two pledges.

Wayne

Here's a snippet from a Projector Central reviewer on his H31:

"I plugged my computer w/ 9800 pro DVI and watched some WMV HD at MS website and the picture is astounding!! Colour saturation is spot on and vibrant like an LCD based. Resolution is also improved by setting the res to 1280x720 on your comp. Overall, a step up from DVD quality that displays a more engaging picture."

It would appear at first blush it's doable. Since I have a 9800 pro I'll report back my findings...after my 31 arrives.

Wayne & DaGamePimp,

I will be glad to help out if something goes wrong, but i'm a poor college kid, so i wont be able to help a whole lot, but i'll be glad too.... lets see it this way... if something goes wrong with the H31, DaGamePimp should be able to keep it then, and then probably should be covered under warrenty, even the bulb, its under 90 days :D so in reality, no matter what happens, it should be returned, but if its shipping, you'll have to file a claim, in the end it will be either you will have to do paperwork, or you'll just have a 45 day trial :D
I think if everyone who's read/posted in this forum donates 10 for this fund or so, we should be fine for the coverage, if it happens. So everyone now its the time to let us all know if you are up to helping DaGamePimp out, just in case :D Cause i'm sure he'll like to know that everyone will help before he says yes and there is only like 3 people that are willing to help, also if its alright with DaGamePimp, we could start a new thread with a poll who will help and how much to get a better idea of who's willing...

Arty

let's look at this another way

all we really need to cover is the cost of UPS and UPS insurance from Jason back to Optoma. Optoma ships it out and it gets lost, Jason never signs for it. Optoma's on the hook in this situation. Jason ships it back to Optoma, pays for insurance up to $1299, it get's lost, UPS is on the hook. Problem solved. I wouldn't think the insurance on something like that would be all that much--far less than the cost of the PJ itself.

isn't that pretty much a no-brainer? unless of course Jason is worried that something could happen to it in his possesion, that would be a different story.

Here's a snippet from a Projector Central reviewer on his H31:

"I plugged my computer w/ 9800 pro DVI and watched some WMV HD at MS website and the picture is astounding!! Colour saturation is spot on and vibrant like an LCD based. Resolution is also improved by setting the res to 1280x720 on your comp. Overall, a step up from DVD quality that displays a more engaging picture."

It would appear at first blush it's doable. Since I have a 9800 pro I'll report back my findings...after my 31 arrives.

i tried an All-in-Wonder 9800 Pro with the H31 and had the same issues. it's not the video card, it's not the PC, it's not the cabling, it's not the power. it's the PROJECTOR :)

and i'll say this, if Optoma comes back and says they're not going to support htpc video playback on this unit and that this is designed for "home theater", which is where i think this is headed...they're fooling themselves. i mean, come on... if they don't think the future of home theater includes the use of a PC then well um...COME ON!!!

This donation idea is a good one, but I can't help but think that this is Optoma's problem, not the owners of H31's or Jason's problem.

Optoma needs to address this issue, it's a no-brainer (ok, I used that phrase 2x now :rolleyes: ). Really, if 10 of you all called Optoma at the same time today to get RMA's for you're H31's with the same problem (won't work with HTPC), they might take notice and maybe even change their position regarding Jason's review unit (depending on how good communication is at Optoma).

Either that or Guitarman should be able to do something as he has good communication with Optoma....a comment of some sort should be given from Optoma (even White House press secretary’s will comment at the worst of times!).

Guitarman is essentially Optoma's liaison to this forum.

Fleaman

...isn't that pretty much a no-brainer? unless of course Jason is worried that something could happen to it in his possesion, that would be a different story.
Yeah, the lamp could blow and/or the unit could have a total failure. Optoma would hold Jason liable for the full cost of the unit or just the lamp. Either way it's a bum deal when there is nothing in it for you.

This might be the release that they make Magazine writers sign to review a unit (to avoid thefts and get the unit back). But Magazine reviewers depend on receiving equip to review and in turn, make a living off that. Jason is not only making zero $$$ here, but is offering his services to Optoma for free.

Fleaman

wayne, have you heard anything back from optoma canada yet? surely they've had a chance to look at your unit by now

"I talked to Harvey a little while ago and he sounds like a very nice guy but I am going to have to decline on the H31 being sent to me for testing . I have to sign and return a form that makes me totally liable for the unit (damages or lost equipment) ."

It's the same deal for me. NEC had me sign a liable form for when they sent me the HT410 and then HT510. It's a gamble for sure.
Sri Jason, thanks for thinking of giving it a try.

Yes, I got an email from them yesterday that the problem had been solved. I have to tell you that I was suspicious because it seemed too fast. My assumption was correct when the email went on to explain that I would find a quote from the AVS Forum whereby someone there had solved the problem.

Turned out all they did was look at this thread which I provided for them, lift one of Arty13's posts describing his 1:1 pixel mapping adventures, and then paste it into the email to me, asking if I'd like to return the H57 loaner and get my second H31 back.

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????

This was somehow supposed to be the magical answer to our tearing and syncing problems. :rolleyes:

I wrote back in an incredulous manner suggesting they hook my H31 up to a computer and try troubleshooting.

Turns out my technical contact with Optoma Canada was only relaying a message from an engineer to me so I'm afraid he got a bit of the brunt of my tone.

He replied to my reply that one of their engineers was working with someone here at AVS Forum to solve the problem. Again...?????????????????????????????

Is anyone here at the Forum working with an engineer at Optoma Canada? Arty? Anyone?

I told my contact that this was highly unlikely because as far as I knew, I was the only one in contact from the Forum with Optoma Canada and if anyone at all here was doing this I'm sure we'd all be aware of it. It's not exactly the type of thing you keep to yourself you know.

I then received another email stating that there could be a mistake and that it wasn't their engineer who worked that out (Arty's calculations), it was someone on the Forum who did.

Well golly gee!! Who'd a thunk it!?

I asked this contact person to relay a message that I would like to be in direct contact with the engineer either by phone or email. I haven't heard back yet. It's been about 24 hours.

Looks like my donation idea hasn't exactly lit too many fires around these parts. Oh well, I tried.

Wayne

This is the kind of crap I had to deal with at Infocus when getting my SP4800 replaced almost two years ago. I ended up speaking to the president of the company to get my problem resolved. I swear I talked to about 20 different people there. I see Optoma is probably not much different in this respect. When your dealing with a large company you have to peal back the layers of the buerocratic onion in order to get someone that can actually help you...

omg, that is rich.

here's the deal, i don't think they actually have anybody but entry level tech's and customer support people in the states or in canada--mostly product marketing and channel sales. i think the people who know wtf is going on are in taiwan. i have little faith this will get resolved--ever. and if it doesn't, i'll never buy another optoma again. if you want to write a note explaining your similar problems:

raymondm@optoma.com <-- manager of customer service, u.s.
paull@optoma.com <-- director pro a/v, u.s.
coryl@optoma.com <-- i believe support, not sure
christophery@optoma.com <-- i believe product manager, H31, u.s.

thanks anyway tom and jason

Whoa , awesome support there guys (thank you so much for the offer) .

--- I obviously cannot accept it however but it is much appreciated and shows exactly why I wanted to help , this is a great forum filled with such wonderful people :) .

---------- Best Wishes All ,
---------------- Jason

HTPC Update

I just want to let HTPC users know that although initially I had the tearing problem with this H57 loaner unit I'm using while my H31 is in for evaluation, I now have reduced it to a point so low that it occurs as often as rainbows and that's rare.

I'm using a nVIDIA GeForce PCX 5300 card along with ZoomPlayer and TheaterTek on a trial basis. ffdshow is being used as well as a post-processing program. The H57 hasn't lost it's digital connection to my computer once since it's been in my home during the last seven days.

With the new nVIVIA drivers I'm forcing 720p to the H57 and trying different codecs such as nVIDIA and DScaler 5. The bottom line is that if I can get the H31 to be this stable keeping a digital signal over DVI from an HTPC and with the issue of tearing reduced to a miniscule annoyance, I'll be very happy.

I've also been messing around with refresh rates over VGA since my card won't allow me to do this as much over DVI and the results have been fairly good over VGA as well. It seems that 50Hz and 59Hz are the best on my system. If I had PowerStrip I imagine that I could monkey around with refresh rates over DVI but it doesn't seem to matter.

Now, of course this is all with an H57. I'm hoping that if Optoma doesn't resolve these issues that when I do get my unit back I'll be able to duplicate this success with that projector. I honestly don't know though whether the results will be the same. It proves one thing though; Optoma is capable of and does manufacture projectors that would seem to work with HTPCs if my experience at the present is any indicator with the H57.

I've also decided to return my Panasonic S97 to the store. I'm not happy with it's performance after carefully comparing it to my LG7832/Zenith DB318 player. Doing the firmware update was not an option for me as I didn't want to do that and then not be able to return it should I still not be happy.

If this mess with the H31 can be resolved I'll stick with the LG but if I decide to move to a DVD player with this projector I may investigate the DVDO iScan to at least come close to HTPC quality.

Wayne

sorry to constantly be the negative ned, but you're being pretty optimistic aren't you? the projector's are not the same. i mean, hadn't you already tried the same things you mention above on the H31? lord know's i have and with several setups. and why should you have to settle for a non-native resolution like 1280x720 or whatever in order to reduce the occurrence?

Well, I kind of feel like I'm on the defensive here somehow now.

I have found that the Optoma scalers in both projectors deal well with higher HDTV resolutions. This is with regard to a lack of scaling artifacts and producing a clean image other than the tearing of course.

As far as native resolution goes, unless you are Arty13 or have a Bravo D2 like Tom, the best we've achieved is 848 x 480. Close but no cigar. Since the holy grail is 854 x 480, I figure 848 x 480 is close enough. Yet there is no reason at present for me to waste my time with that resolution when the H57 will scale 1280 x 720 to it's native 1024 x 576 nicely. I recall that the H31 would handle that well too other than the tearing.

Actually I've been 'settling' for a non-native resolution from my LG7832 of 1920 x 1080i to both the H31 and H57 with superb results and of course no tearing at all. Just not quite the image I'm used to with an HTPC. So although feeding this high a resolution to the H31 may result in a somewhat softened yet pleasing image, probably 848 x 480 is the best one to work with as you say.

My question to you is, would you use this high a resolution if it drastically reduced the tearing problem yet the resulting image was comparable to that at the lower resolution?

I have tried the things in the above post before as you say but with one significant difference that you must have missed. I'm presently in day 3 of a 7 day trial of TheaterTek. I've never tried it before and I'm using nVIDIA and ffdshow video codecs with it trying to evaluate which is better. The pleasantly shocking thing to me is that it is the use of TheaterTek which has provided the success in reducing/eliminating the tearing issue. I have it set for VMR9 and I understand that unlike ZoomPlayer, TheaterTek uses VMR9 in a renderless configuration which according to my reading on the HTPC forum, is most likely the reason why the tearing problem has gone.

Now here is where it gets really interesting. I uninstalled TheaterTek because I felt that it was somehow 'influencing' ZoomPlayer to also reduce the lines whereas before I couldn't get ZoomPlayer to work properly without lines no matter what I tried.

After uninstalling TheaterTek, I again tried a movie in ZoomPlayer and the tearing returned with a VENGEANCE!

So, once again, I installed TheaterTek back onto my computer and sure enough, when using it there are no lines anymore.

Needless to say I will most likely keep TheaterTek. It appears to be money well spent. I'm only assuming that it will work with the H31 and it's a gamble since I don't have the projector back yet but if it can help with the tearing at a high resolution I'm hoping that it will also do it for 848 x 480.

Wayne

i'm sorry wayne, i'm not trying to put you on the defensive or be a jerk. i'm just simply saying, i think you're being optomistic and i think that you have settled a bit. (you said it yourself)

me myself, i'm very disappointed with the whole thing.

Hey, no worries. I've been frustrated too.

It's been a nightmare billy! I was happy with my X1 and VGA. But after two years I felt that there'd been enough change in the industry that an upgrade would be kind of 'fun'. Isn't this fun!?

I think if we can find a way to perhaps succeed by ourselves it may be all we have. I'm not too hopeful that Optoma will come up with much. It just may be a defect in the player and too late to fix it. This type of thing should be settled in pre-production. Hopefully Optoma will pay closer attention to their future models and their ability to cope with computers. But that doesn't help us now though does it? We've seen Optoma U.S.A.'s answer: send a demo unit to some non-employee and make him take the risk for it's value. Never mind what 45 days of trouble-shooting might cost the company were they to do this in-house.

At least Optoma Canada has interacted with me quite well up until yesterday. We might have a smidgen of a chance to find closure to this issue through them.

I guess I'm hoping that this TheaterTek program will work for everyone's H31 and HTPC. We shouldn't have to resort to paying for that when ZoomPlayer and other programs are so much cheaper but if it works, well, you do what you have to do.

It's a great projector with DVD players. At least we have that if all else fails.

Are you still enjoying your X1 and AE700? That must be pretty cool to have 2 1/2 projectors in the house. :D

Wayne

I have tried the things in the above post before as you say but with one significant difference that you must have missed. I'm presently in day 3 of a 7 day trial of TheaterTek. I've never tried it before and I'm using nVIDIA and ffdshow video codecs with it trying to evaluate which is better. The pleasantly shocking thing to me is that it is the use of TheaterTek which has provided the success in reducing/eliminating the tearing issue. I have it set for VMR9 and I understand that unlike ZoomPlayer, TheaterTek uses VMR9 in a renderless configuration which according to my reading on the HTPC forum, is most likely the reason why the tearing problem has gone.

Now here is where it gets really interesting. I uninstalled TheaterTek because I felt that it was somehow 'influencing' ZoomPlayer to also reduce the lines whereas before I couldn't get ZoomPlayer to work properly without lines no matter what I tried.

After uninstalling TheaterTek, I again tried a movie in ZoomPlayer and the tearing returned with a VENGEANCE!

So, once again, I installed TheaterTek back onto my computer and sure enough, when using it there are no lines anymore.

Wayne

Hey Wayne,
I use ZoomPlayer with VMR9 Renderer, and with the change in freq. i see no lines, but VMR9 might work better with my ATI Card than your NVIDIA, just due to drivers... but you need to make sure you have the fix VMR9 Scaling bug checked, if that is unchecked, that might be a problem with the lines, but more than likely you have that checked, but yeah... its probably some setting that theater tek does that makes the lines go away more, whereas you probably have to find the combination of options in zoomplayer to do the same thing... but what do i know... :D

Arty

i don't think renderless is going to be the answer

like another person here has already said, a standalone player will exhibit the same behavior with a component to vga breakout cable connected to the vga/dvi port on the H31. it's an issue with the projector.

t
I have it set for VMR9 and I understand that unlike ZoomPlayer, TheaterTek uses VMR9 in a renderless configuration which according to my reading on the HTPC forum, is most likely the reason why the tearing problem has gone.



Just making sure that you have "fullscreen" checked in the TT advanced video menu - otherwise you aren't using renderless mode. Zoomplayer has renderless support in beta form also.

I've used and loved TT for a long time now and don't agree with your assessment that it's overpriced. Windvd and Powerdvd are right up there in price, and don't forget that Zoom doesn't come with codecs.

i don't think renderless is going to be the answer

like another person here has already said, a standalone player will exhibit the same behavior with a component to vga breakout cable connected to the vga/dvi port on the H31. it's an issue with the projector.

I'm the one who reported the problem with standalone player, and would like to make one small correction to the above. I did NOT use a VGA breakout cable. I connected through a transcoder into VGA/dvi port. There IS a difference. VGA breakout would just place the component signals (YPbPr) on some of the pins of the DVI connector, delivering unmodified component signals to the projector, while a transcoder converts the YPbPr signal to VGA RGB-based signals. It is NOT just a pass-through.

Nonetheless, the point being made is valid. The VGA/DVI input on the H31 seems to have signal timing issues that are NOT present on the component input.

... stll no digital over DVI here...

Although the lines are greatly decreased by using a non standard refresh rate I still see a little tearing in bright flashy scenes. Nothing as bad as before but they are there.

Have any of you HTPC/H31 users tried 71.924 Hz refresh rate with 848x480 ?

---------- Jason

Does anyone watch black and white movies or TV shows on their H31? If so, do you have a preference for color temperature? I don't know what the "correct" color temp should be, but I normally use Temp 1 for DVDs and HD material. I recently watched a few episodes of The Outer Limits which are in black and white and found that switching to color temp 2 looks better. Temp 1 seemed to add a little bit of tint to the b & w image, while temp 2 looks like more of a flat gray. Any thoughts?

Also, I've been using my H31 under the "PC" setting which does crank up the contrast (possibly too much) but makes the colors pop out more and makes the blacks appear darker. I noticed when using the THX Optimizer test that I couldn't pass the contrast test (the whites were too high), so I lowered the contrast a little on the DVD player itself and was able to pass the test and still retain most of the benefit of using the "PC" setting. Also it seems to help the image if I increase "white peaking" to 5. It still passes the THX test but gives the image more punch. On the contrast test screen you can see the differences clearly when you change the numbers on white peaking.

Anyway, I'm liking the image SO MUCH more than when I was using film mode with white peaking on 1. Anyone else experiment with this stuff? Based on what I'm seeing, I'm surprised more people haven't mentioned it.

Also, I think the H31 is kind of soft when being fed 1080i. I still have a Voom receiver which works great for OTA HD. If I set it to 720p the picture is much sharper, whether I go through component or DVI either one. The difference isn't subtle either.

After Voom went dark I bought a Dish 6000 HD receiver. Unfortunately, it's not useable at 720p. Using it at 1080i looks okay, but not nearly as good as using the Voom box at 720p. I've found the differences between the two resolutions much more striking, than, say, the difference between using compoment or DVI with a high definition STB.

I've never had the problem of 1080i looking too soft with my X1, and it's kind of disappointing that the Dish receiver I bought has problems with 720p. I actually prefer the look of DVDs (which look amazing right now) over the look of HD at 1080i with my current setup for the Dish network channels. The best image I've seen though is still Voom OTA at 720p.

Arty,

I've tried checking and unchecking the VMR9 Scaling Bug box and the lines don't disappear either way unfortunately.

mjolson,

Thanks for that tip! I'm new to TheaterTek and appreciate all of the help that I can get. I do have the fullscreen box checked. I've been told that renderless doesn't work with ffdshow when using TheaterTek, only nVIDIA codec but the lines are gone either way and I'm used to ffdshow and prefer it anyway so that's my story.

I'm really glad to hear from someone who's been using TheaterTek for a while and likes it. I have to stand by my statement about it's price though. In Canada, we have to pay over $93.00 for TheaterTek. Purchasing ZoomPlayer is only $20.00 U.S. which when converted to Canadian funds turns out to be just under $30.00. TheaterTek costs me 3 times more than ZoomPlayer. As for codecs, the video codec that seems to be preferred now by virtually everyone using ZoomPlayer is John Ad's DScaler5 which is free of charge and includes CSS decryption. So ZoomPlayer doesn't require any additional expense other than it's initial cost in order to make it work.

So for me, if I could have used ZoomPlayer with the H31 I would have stuck with it but my trial has shown me that TheaterTek removes the lines whereas ZoomPlayer hasn't yet. Unfortunately I'm presently using an H57 loaner so I can't test TheaterTek out on the H31 yet because it's at Optoma for testing but I'm fairly confident that I'll be able to reproduce what I'm seeing (or not seeing :) ) now.

Jason,

I can't remember if I've tried that resolution. I demo'd PowerStrip and tried several things though. The only success I remember having with PowerStrip was when I was giving the ATI Radeon X700 Pro a try and I had a clean image @ 1280 x 720 using 48Hz. I had to return the card because my H31 stopped receiving a digital DVI signal from the HTPC and then it stopped receiving the same signal from my current nVIDIA card as well. This has happened to me with two different H31 units.

Now I'm getting the same results @ 1280 x 720 50Hz and TheaterTek with ffdshow. The signal is staying rock solid with the H57 so far.

Wayne

Optoma Canada is getting serious!

I've just received the following from them and they have also contacted Wing.

"Dear Wayne.

I’m the product Manager for this product Line. I will like to work closely with you on this issue.

The reasons for the late reply because our engineering team has been trying to reproduce the problem you described. But so far we have no success.

We have tried with the following graphics card (Radeon® X300, Radeon® 9600 PRO) with doesn’t see any lost of digital signal output/connection after some time.



The next step is I will like to know your computer configuration so we can modify or add new part to closely match your computer settings.

1. What is your CPU?

2. What model is your computer? Who and model

3. Graphics card model and memory size?

4. What version of the FW you have on your graphics card?

5. Please have detail setting screen capture of your graphics card:

a. Refresh rate, resolution, color depth, card clock speed

6. Is H31 having source lock enable? Locked on DigitalRGB?

7. Can you record video that shows image playback problem?



Any more information you can give will be helpful,



Best Regards,

Cory"

So now I have to answer all of these questions. I'll do my best. I might have to look to you guys for some assistance here because I'm not fully literate in computerese.

Wayne

Alright guys you have one more HTPC user to help you out... I had a pretty good system built up from a buddy that owed me. The Graphics card is the ATI 9600 256MB, I downloaded Powerstip 3.6 and I can play around this weekend with it. I am a total noob at the HTPC but I figure I'd really like to help figure this out so if anyone has any hints for me to start...please shoot away. I noticed Powerstrip 3.6 has a pre defined configuration 852 x 480 (EDTV), has anyone tried that? That is only 2 pixels off...?

Well some weird thing happened to me, I left the H31 unplugged for about a week and half and all my advanced adjustments reset...errr... now I have to recal. I'll wait till I paint the back wall per Waynes and others suggestion, then recalibrate. (hopefully this weekend)

I think 720p looks a step above 1080i for the Panny S97, I can't wait to see HD material....

mystery,

You're right, I forgot about the free Dscaler5 codec.

One other little thing I remembered about VMR9 Renderless - make sure you have vsync "always on" in your video card settings. The gurus on the theatertek forum claim this will prevent tearing.

BTW, introducing ffdshow doesn't prevent you from using renderless mode, you just can't use hardware acceleration so the burden is shifted to the CPU. I still use ffdshow as well. A quick check to tell if you're in renderless mode is to right-click, it shouldn't do anything.

-Mike

mystery, please please please don't forget to tell them about the tearing. seems like all they're working on is the digital signal issue.

i'm going to buy a dvi or hdmi cable and fisch it through my ceiling over the next few weeks. anybody recommend a good cable that won't break the bank. i need a 30'er.

Well some weird thing happened to me, I left the H31 unplugged for about a week and half and all my advanced adjustments reset...errr... now I have to recal. I'll wait till I paint the back wall per Waynes and others suggestion, then recalibrate. (hopefully this weekend)

....

That sucks. I wonder if all of them do it? I've left my H30 unplugged (switched off at a powerstrip) for 3 weeks and all my settings were still there.

Hmmm.

Fleaman

Don't worry billy, they're aware of this. Check out question #7 in their email. They want a video of the tearing/lines issue. I spoke a fair bit about this issue in my reply to them that I just emailed to them moments ago.

Now, can anyone help me out here? I've taken way too much time on this today already. I just spent over an hour answering their email, finding links to programs for them, detailing information requested etc... I don't know how to capture digital video of the tearing issue into a file. They want to see a sample of this.

Can someone successfully capture the tearing issue in a short video and send it to me in a file that can be forwarded to Optoma? I'd appreciate anyone's help with this.

By the way Mike (mjolson), thanks a lot for your information and tips. I right clicked while a movie was being played and nothing happened so I guess renderless mode is working fine. I can't remember how to activate/de-activate hardware acceleration in my video card settings. I looked around and it doesn't appear to be anywhere. I must be missing it somehow. Anyway, no matter, I was just curious.

Thanks guys.

Wayne

i can do this over the weekend and try out my new Sony DCR-HC90 mini dv camcorder! :D

hopefully it will show up and be visible. i'll pm you later this weekend. i have to lay tile in my master bathroom, so it might not be until sunday. or maybe tomorrow night i can get to it if the wife let's me.

Cool! Great excuse to break in the new toy. :)

Don't work too hard this weekend billy. We wouldn't want you to get too 'tiled'. :D

Wayne

That sucks. I wonder if all of them do it? I've left my H30 unplugged (switched off at a powerstrip) for 3 weeks and all my settings were still there.

Hmmm.

Fleaman

Yeah, I should have wrote them down. I'm not ruling out User Disfunction (Reset button by accident) right yet, because I have left off the power much longer at times....?? Oh well, just gives more time to with my baby.... :D

Cool! Great excuse to break in the new toy. :)

Don't work too hard this weekend billy. We wouldn't want you to get too 'tiled'. :D

Wayne

rimshot! TADUNKDUNKKA-SSCHHKDHHHHH

Well Harvey (from Optoma) called me again today and after I explained to him my issue he said he would see what he could do , so all hope is not lost just yet ;) . Not that I will be able to solve all the HTPC issues but I am confident that I can improve some things :D .

--- Stay Tuned ...

------------ Jason

Good news Jason! That's the second positive item today. Hopefully between Optoma Canada and Optoma DagamePimp (kind of has a ring to it donut? :) ) we'll get rid of the tearing/syncing issues.

Wayne

Well it is done , Harvey fixed the terms of the Evaluation unit and I have signed and faxed it back to him (they even have the unit picked out and ready to go - the serial # was listed) . So with any luck I should see the unit by the end of next week ;) .

--- Now I just have to hope that I can actually be of some help ... hehe .


*** And just as I submitted this post Harvey e-mailed me confirmation that the demo H31 will ship out tomorrow ;) ***

-------------- Jason

Nice.

**** that's the best news i've heard all week and just in time for a 3 day weekend

thanks optoma

good luck jason, we're all crossing our fingers. if anybody can do it, i'm sure it's you

too bad it didn't make it out for the 3 day weekend :(

Sorry to change the subject briefly, but I recently bought an H31 and was trying to calibrate the PJ using THX optimizer and I can't seem to locate the color, tint, or sharpness adjustment. According to the manual it should be under the picuture control in the menu but it is not!! I am a complete noob so I apologize if this is really THAT easy. I would appreciate any help!! Thanks!!!

Chad

PS: I am hooked up via DVI with a Toshiba 5980, but planning on an Oppo in the near future!!

Sorry to change the subject briefly, but I recently bought an H31 and was trying to calibrate the PJ using THX optimizer and I can't seem to locate the color, tint, or sharpness adjustment. According to the manual it should be under the picuture control in the menu but it is not!! I am a complete noob so I apologize if this is really THAT easy. I would appreciate any help!! Thanks!!!

Chad

PS: I am hooked up via DVI with a Toshiba 5980, but planning on an Oppo in the near future!!

There are a few picture controls that are not accessible when you are using the DVI input. I can't remember what they are though...

Fleaman

Sorry to change the subject briefly, but I recently bought an H31 and was trying to calibrate the PJ using THX optimizer and I can't seem to locate the color, tint, or sharpness adjustment.Chad, no need to apologize :-). The settings you listed are missing from the menu by design.
I experienced the same surprise when I first connected my Samsung 191T LCD monintor to my PC via DVI cable a couple of years ago.

Mike

So does this mean I cannot adjust these settings?? I would think these setting are pretty important to the "tweaker" and am puzzled as to why these aren't accessible. Thanks for the replies!! Chad

Chad,

I just bought a Panasonic DVD-S77, which has contrast, brightness, sharpness, and color adjustments.

As the commentary on the Digital Video Essentials DVD correctly states, the color, tint, and sharpness adjustments were necessary to compensate for composite-video problems. They do not apply to (in principle) to component-video or to a DVI-D bitstream.

Mike

Jason - that is excellent news!

I tried loads of resolutions and refresh rates and as things are with my current drivers I get the best match of less tearing & good PQ at 62 hz.

I can not get anything to work at all between any of my PC's and DVI-D.
I have three PC's with DVI output and each sees the Optoma as a generic "analog display" and outputs analog to it. If I hit the DVI-A button it syncs and displays video. If I hit the DVI-D button "No Signal" and the PC's don't seem to care.
I am using a 10 ft DVI-I cable. I had a 12 Ft Monster DVI-D cable but could get no signal at all to the Optoma H31 from any of my PC's. I tested the DVI-D cable to the H31 with my cable box & got it to display nice HDTV so I know the cable was good. I went back to the DVI-I and sold the DVI-D cable on ebay.

Others here say their PC sees an Optoma H31 and calls it an Optoma H31. I've never experienced this, I just get "Analog Display".

My tearing was a horizontal line all the way across the screen that would slowly move downwards at 848 x 480 @ 60hz.

When set to 848 x 480 @ 62hz I get maybe 8 to 10 inch lines in bright flashy areas in action scenes sometimes. Much more tolerable, but it does seem to still be there. If I were more of a videophile I suppose this would be intolerable.

For me the priority is:
1. get it to sync with a digital signal (DVI-D)
2. no more tearing

I have a PC using these components:
ASUS P5P800
P4 3.4ghz 2megs cache
1 GB DDR
BFG AsylumFX 5900 video (Nvidia) running 71.89
Winfast TV2000 XP tuner

my 6600GT and 6800GTO cards see it as an H31, but i have not ran my digital cable yet

working on it

jason has a hunch and he's probably right that we're not going to be able to get rid of these problems without syncing digitally via dvi

that's how it is on the sp4805 and it has the same chip as the H31

Very good news Jason, thank you Harvey. :)

Hey Chad, main concern on tuning DVI is there. The brightness and contrast, for color tuning use the Image Advanced adjustments with a graysteps pattern if needed.

On the 848 x 480 resolution the screen is cut off on the right by a inch or two which i cant stand at all, so i have been using 1280 x 720 and 960 x 720 resolution. On these resolutions i get a line that scrolls up from the bottom to the top which drives me insane. Last night i switched to 800 x 600 and in my dvd software i chose widescreen monitor and it fited the widescreen movie on the whole screen. I watched a few movies like this and i noticed no line scrolling anymore and i also noticed nothing different about the video quality compared to the 1280 x 720 resoltion which i was using before. My video card is also a 6800 gt. I also wanted to know if anyone if anyone else has the same problem as me with the 848 x 480 res. Im going to play around with powerstrip some more and see if i can get the right resolution and refresh rate to make it fit the whole screen and see if the scrolling line is there.

Sounds good!! Thanks for the replies!! Chad

me2003,

I get that at some refresh rates - try different refresh rates until you get what you like

For me, I have settled in @ 62hz for now.

On the 848 x 480 resolution the screen is cut off on the right by a inch or two which i cant stand at all, so i have been using 1280 x 720 and 960 x 720 resolution. On these resolutions i get a line that scrolls up from the bottom to the top which drives me insane. Last night i switched to 800 x 600 and in my dvd software i chose widescreen monitor and it fited the widescreen movie on the whole screen. I watched a few movies like this and i noticed no line scrolling anymore and i also noticed nothing different about the video quality compared to the 1280 x 720 resoltion which i was using before. My video card is also a 6800 gt. I also wanted to know if anyone if anyone else has the same problem as me with the 848 x 480 res. Im going to play around with powerstrip some more and see if i can get the right resolution and refresh rate to make it fit the whole screen and see if the scrolling line is there.

lol, join the club. it's a known issue. you've got some reading to do. like the last 20 pages of this thread at least.

Tom,
Do you know what the differences are between your Toshiba 5970 and the 5980? Did they fix the remote control command response issue? Chad, how well is your remote working?

I do like the price of the 5980, along with no pixel cropping, zero y/c delay, etc. Tom, would you rather have the Oppo, or the Panny S97 instead? Did Oppo finally put out the firmware that allows EE to be turned off on the Faroudja chip?

Depends on what you mean by "similar": same settings, or calibrated to look similarly good on screen? It may very well take different settings to achieve a similar picture between component and DVI.

uwradu,
Sorry, I've been away for awhile. I wanted to point out that those who agreed with me that dvi seemed sharper and of higher quality than component viewed signals that had been calibrated to look the same using the THX Optimode tests. This allowed us to quicky even things up so that a decent comparison could be made.

"....Today, I was delighted to view the svideo output from a couple of dvd players through my IScan Plus(480p) and the image is really filmlike. The Iscan puts out a vga signal, which I ran into the dvi port of the H31, using the supplied adapter. This gave me back more image control options than dvi-d. This connection doesn't have the depth of detailing of dvi-d at 1080i, and the blacks aren't quite as dark, but I loved the smoothness, and the sharpness was still pretty good. It's amazing what svideo can do. I tried the Sony S7000 and the Sammy 931. However, there's a big problem....image tearing. I can't get rid of it, no matter what frequency or phase setting I try. It showed badly on both players(fast motion, camera pans), so I'm sure that it's probably the Iscan going bad. I hope to try it on another pj to confirm."

I posted this back in March, thinking that something was wrong with my Iscan Plus. After reading all the recent posts, it's clear to me that the problem is with the vga input on the H31, not my Iscan. The Iscan has a switch on the back that changes the signal from vga to component, although all signals are sent out via a vga cable. I'm going to try switching the signal to component, and connecting the vga output cable to a component adapter, to see what the results will be. My Sammy T165 tuner also has a vga output that I haven't tried with the H31 yet. I don't know if it's set for true vga or component. I'll report later.

Tom, would you choose the Oppo over the D2 or the 5970/5980? I like the fact that the D2 can actually do 854/480.

Well over the weekend I painted the whole ceiling and back wall flat black, side walls are Autumn Rust. Still lots of work to do but I'm hoping to recalibrate the H31 and see what the results are having the black walls.

Hey Jedi it's been awhile, how things going?

Hey Mystery,

Just curious, now that you've had the H57 for a while, any further impressions? I'm really close to the H31 upgrade, but the current H57 promo is tough to ignore. I'll probably still stick to buying the H31, but I'm curious if you feel the H57 is enough of an improvement to consider??

-Mike

Hi Mike,

Well, yes I still have the H57 as my H31 is still at Optoma as they try to re-create my setup in order to try to duplicate the tearing/syncing issues.

My impression of the H57 is very positive. It's holding a digital signal over DVI-D without fail. I can't say that for my first two H31s as they both after a time lost the digital image from my HTPC yet would show one from a DVD player's DVI out port.

The tearing issue is also here on the H57 from HTPC. I have managed to eliminate it by using TheaterTek. ZoomPlayer just will not play DVDs without tearing.

However, a new issue has surfaced. Although I no longer have tearing, I now have stuttering. I had no stuttering in Zoomplayer and using ffdshow I was resizing @ 1440 x 960. Resizing with TheaterTek and ffdshow seems to be the culprit no matter the resolution. The stuttering doesn't seem to happen using just the nVIDIA decoders but I don't like the picture without using ffdshow. I've tried doing without resizing but there is to me a huge difference and I'd rather persevere and lick this problem and use resize if at all possible. I am presently evaluating a download of ReClock's latest Beta version. I think I'm seeing an improvement but it's not completely gone.

What happens is that I can resize with TheaterTek and ffdshow @ 1280 x 720 which is as high as I need. The image is gorgeous and the playback is smooth for about maybe 5 to 7 minutes and then the stuttering starts. Sometimes it's coincidental to the fan in the HTPC revving up louder and other times the fan will do this yet the image stays smooth. I can get rid of the stuttering by double clicking on the image and going back to the windowed TheaterTek display and then double clicking again to go fullscreen and the picture becomes stable again for another 5 to 7 minutes until the cycle begins again. It's weird and frustrating.

Anyway, you didn't ask me about any of this but I thought that since you seem to know a fair bit about TheaterTek that you might be able to suggest a solution.

Back to the H57 now. I like the added resolution of 1024 x 576 vs. the H31's 854 x 480. I can sit closer without SDE. The H57 is a VERY bright projector. Almost too bright as I have the High Power screen in use with it and you can read in the room with a light on near you and the image is still quite watchable. I tried switching to my HCMW but I thought that the images lacked punch so I went back to the HP.

If reds are important to you you'll like this H57. The reds on it are far better than those of the H31. You can attain fairly acceptable reds on the H31 after much tweaking but the H57 needs little if any coaxing to achieve the same level of satisfaction.

The H57 is kind of ugly and enormous when compared to the H31. The remotes are the same size and shape and only the configuration of the buttons is different. This particular H57 has the buzzing sound that plagued some of the H30s. It's mildly annoying and isn't really a factor when you're engrossed in a movie and have the audio going normally.

Blacks and contrast ratio seem the same to me as the H31. Colors too except for the reds.

I would seriously consider this if I were in the market right now. It's a nice projector but if the price differential is too great between the two then it's probably the wise choice to get the H31. Other than the increased resolution and the reds, the two projectors are very similar performance wise in my opinion. I guess the H57 is supposed to be marginally quieter than the H31 but unfortunately with this buzzing I can't make a very good comparison. Another thing to consider is the throw. The H57 has a longer throw lens than the H31. I can't get an image small enough to fit within the black borders of my screen whereas with the H31, the image at it's smallest size was just a little smaller than the dimensions of my screen.

One thing I really like about the H57 is that it has a separate port for VGA input. Then you don't have to get a switch if you want to sent DVI and VGA to the projector.

Hope this helps. If you have any insight as to what I can do to get this periodic stuttering to stop please let me know.

Thanks Mike,

Wayne

Mystery,

Thanks for the info on the H57. It sounds like a nice projector, but only incrementally better than the 31. I do like the reports of only 23db noise and the additional resolution. The current price and "free bulb" deal makes it very enticing. I'll probably still end up with the 31 since it looks just like my H30. The better half won't notice the swap :D

On the HTPC front, stuttering is a frustrating battle isn't it. What CPU and version of ffdshow are you using? I have a Pentium 2.8C with the 101204 sse2 optimized version. I resize to 2X (1440 x 960) with no problems. I have a touch of denoise3d added prior to the resize. I guess my suggestion would be just to make sure that you don't have anything after resize, thus operating on the higher res picture. You might want to post your configuration on the Theatertek support forum for suggestions. I'll bet they can pinpoint the stutter culprit pretty easily.

Are you using the Nvidia codecs in ZP as well? It's strange that you'd have stutter in ZP but not TT if you're using the same codec. I actually have the reverse problem, I can get renderless to work beautifully in TT, but not in ZP. All this makes me want to go back to my Panny RV80 (480i but very good).

If I upgrade to the H31, I'll be joining the HTPC/H31 battle this week, so I'll let you know what I come up with.

-Mike

Thanks Mike,

I have a P4 using ffdshow 20041012 version. I'm doing several things before resize. Probably I'll post a question on the TheaterTek forum. Maybe even HTPC forum here. I'm not actually getting stutter in ZoomPlayer, just tearing. The reverse for TT.

All the best with your H31 and congratulations. It's an awesome projector for the most part.

Wayne

Is anyone using an ND2 filter to cut lumens on the H31? I know this is popular with the 4805 crowd. I'm mainly concerned with how to mount the filter, over the outside edge, or suspended inside somehow??

Edit:
On second thought, I still have a 55mm FLD filter - I'll give that a shot as it should cut output and potentially improve reds. Just need to figure out how to mount it...

Hey Jedi, First I would prefer the Bravo D2, that's if I could use a long cable. I'll need a line amp to make my cable work. So I'll just use the Toshiba since it has plenty of power to reach the projector. I'd prefer the Bravo because of the 1.1 pixel match. Seems I'm the only one that got a clean 1.1 at 854X480. Wierd

Finally got my new H31 up last night, along with me new Momitsu V880DX (dvd, dvi player).

Was successful to get everything working with dvi. Using a 25ft DVI-D dual link cable, no sparklies or anything unusual noticed (only a $40 cable btw). I tried to get a DVI-I dual link cable at 1st, since it seems the H31 and V880DX both appear to support DVI-I, but NO one seemed to have that cable in stock, even on-line. So, DVI-D dual link is what I ended up with. Supposedly the dual link helps with high-freq transmissions and the H31/V880DX seems to support the dual link, hence maybe the reason I have no issues with a 25ft length non-expensive cable.

Right now have it on the 480p @ 60hz stock setting, pic looks real nice!

Will attempt to do some custom dvi settings....like the ever elusive 854x480 you HTPC guys can't seem to have any success with. Maybe tonight or the next night.

Coming from an H30 (I've had 3 different H30's!), some quick observations:
> H31 is quieter.
> H31 OTB calibration way, way better!
> Contrast appears to be noticeably better than H30
> H31 Dithering might be a little better (possibly due to better contrast)
> Did I mention the H31 is virtually silent?

I was not able to side by side comparisons, observations were from memory of pic about 30 minutes before (about the time it took me to take down the H30 and out the H31 up). Also, the differences between the H30 and H31 using component on my Panny XP30 were smaller (contrast, sharpness), than the difference with DVI on the H31 vs. H30 component. I'm going by memory here, this is far from scientific. A good 1.5 hrs lapsed between my memory of the H30 component image vs the H31 dvi image (30 minutes for the component comparisons).

As some of you might of remembered from the past, I've had quite a problem with buzzing H30's....of which Optoma continues to claim they can not duplicate the problem in their shop. Even so, they have given me RMA's for the problem and twice replaced the H30 (so I have the 3rd different H30 unit). Each one buzzed in a different way. The last H30 I have now has buzzed the least amount and has buzzed less lately. In fact, last week I bought a APC surge protector pwr strip with filters (EMI/RFI) and hooked up the H30 to it and no-buzz. But I'm not sure if it was due to the pwr strip or just coincidence (my buzzing is intermittent). In any case, even when this last H30 doesn't buzz, my new H31 is still quieter.

Guitarman: I noticed that your Bravo D2 custom dvi settings for 854x480 (the screen shot of the menu you posted) were quite a bit different than what this custom dvi chart Site (http://home1.gte.net/res18h39/customdvi.htm) would give for 854 x 480. In fact, no matter how I enter your Bravo D2 settings in that web site chart (all settings or just some of them), I can not get that chart to accept your Bravo D2 settings as valid (?). What is especially interesting is your Bravo horz Freq of 60000! With most of the 854 settings entered into that site, the highest Horz Freq it would give is in the 31000 to 38000 range.

Was that Bravo D2 854x480 settings stock? Or did you come up with those numbers yourself?

Fleaman

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h31customset1.jpg

I just changed the 854X480, the rest are what comes up stock with the Bravo. It worked ok I saw no problems when viewing video. I haven't got around to changing to 60000hz to see if mode 87 will show 60000hz. Reason being I have to get the 6' cord out. I did buy a very thick Dual link DVI-D that didn't work either. No go with the HT1000 or H31. Maybe the Momo puts out more juice.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h31customset2.jpg

The latest news from Optoma Canada:

"Dear Wayne,

Just a follow up that we haven’t forgotten about you. Just now we need more time to research this issue plus try to re-build a PC system like yours.

Also our engineering team resource is a little low now is because everyone tries to have prototype units ready for Infocomm 2005 trade show next week.

Any more updates I will info you ASAP. Thanks advance for understanding…

Best Regards,

Cory"

Hopefully Jason will get his unit any day now and start tweaking. :)

Wayne

Fleaman,

I'm making the same upgrade as you. My H31 will be here in a few days to replace my 11 month old H30. I don't have a DVI player, so I'm not expecting a huge jump in PQ through component. However, the addition of 16:9 native, higher contrast, and DVI were enough to make me go ahead with the upgrade. I'm glad to hear it's quieter as well. The real catalyst for me was the low availablity and high price of H30 bulbs. I'll let the next owner of my H30 deal with that:)

On a side note, did you find the offset and throw distance to be much different than the H30?

-Mike

The demo H31 is supposed to be here tomorrow (6/1/05) according to the UPS tracking # ;) .


---------- Jason

Hey Lenny,
Nice to get back on the board after all this time. I've had a pretty busy work schedule, and have fought through two colds since I was here last. How'd you guys like SW EPIII? I loved it. I'm putting so many hours on my H31 it's not funny. I'd better go ahead and buy my second bulb.

I did some testing last night, and found that my Iscan Plus is still working just fine. I ran the vga output into a vga to component adapter cable, and set the output switch on the back to component. Going into the regular component input on the H31, the video looks fine, with no tearing at all. Moving the swithc to rgb output in this setup cuts off the video signal entirely. Running a vga cable from the Iscan into the H31's dvi port yeilds video with lots of tearing(setting the switch to component cuts off the video). If this were my main setup, I'd be having the same trouble as all those with htpcs. No need for me to worry yet, as the dvi outputs from my dvd players do look better than what the Iscan is doing.

I'm still curious about trying the Toshiba 5980. Thanks for your thoughts, Tom. Do you think that the D2 would power my 5 meter dvi cable? If not, should I head for the 5980, the Panny S97, or the Oppo? I want a player that passes BTB, has no pixel cropping, and no Y/C delay. My 318 looks great, but it has pixel cropping on the right side.

Wayne,
How are you? Does your LG player have pixel cropping as well? Maybe this is something that shows up only on dvi. I know you are watching component.

Hey Fleaman,
I will await you results with the Momitsu player. This may be a good choice for me if you can get 854/480 to work through your longer dvi cable.

The demo H31 is supposed to be here tomorrow (6/1/05) according to the UPS tracking # ;) .


---------- Jason
Allright! excited? Me I love messing around with different projectors. Give it a good workout.

I was thrilled to try the HT510. Downside in NEC's agreement they only gives two weeks.

'm still curious about trying the Toshiba 5980. Thanks for your thoughts, Tom. Do you think that the D2 would power my 5 meter dvi cable? If not, should I head for the 5980, the Panny S97, or the Oppo?"

The 5970 looked good but it's best to do a 854X480 1.1. With the 5970 there's a slight softness because of the scaling. A softness you don't get when doing 1.1. The Momistsu sounds like a better match.

My H31 will be here thurs. 6/2.

Looking forward to the 100" screen as well. BTW, anyone ever try to set up a home "drive-in"? You know, where your in the backyard on chairs and project on a wall or sheet or something outside? That'll be one of my first experiments with the H31. I got a buddy at work that is eagerly awaiting the real world results when it arrives. He wants to jump in to HT, but it's more for his kids and wife to enjoy.

(Thanks for the advice G.M.)

jed,

I'm fine and thanks for asking! I thought you'd been kind of quiet lately. Good to read your posts once again.

I recently tried out the Panny S97 with it's HDMI output. I used an HDMI to DVI adapter and fed it to the H31 and also the H57 loaner that I'm using presently. The image was very good but not as nice as a stable, tweaked image from an HTPC. It was somewhat soft by comparison and not really as vibrant. I returned it to the store because I just couldn't see it being any better than my LG7832 upconverting over component to 1080i. The LG does unfortunately crop the right side pixels but I got used to that shortly after I bought it. The image was so much better than my previous player and seemed so HD like that the cropping was relatively easy to live with and still is. I don't use the DVI output on the LG because I can't. It just freezes and locks up the player. Besides, I never did do the firmware upgrade to fix the white crush issue anyway so the component is fine. Another thing of course is that the WY31 has only one DVI input so using component frees the DVI input up for another use such as the HTPC which is exactly what I'm doing.

I can hardly wait for the new Revenge of the Sith movie to come to DVD. I don't go to movies anymore. Haven't in several years actually. Glad to hear that it was so good. This seems to be the consensus across the board.

Check out the paint job on my back wall. Pictures are there several pages back. It cut the reflections of light on to the screen completely from the back of the room.

Wayne

mjolson,

The offset and throw seem similar, but not exact. I didn't have much time to mess with it last night as I had some friends over to watch 'Team America' on it. Yeah, I watched a whole movie on it! Imagine that! But, I should be able to give a better answer tonight or tomorrow.

Jedi35,

Well the dvi works perfect through the 25ft cable I have...there is no logical reason for the cable to be a factor if the 854x480 doesn't work, but I understand that logic takes a back seat to these things sometimes. I chose the Momitsu 'cos of the custom resolutions capable, region free, pal to ntsc converter, and I think you can disable the macrovision too. I think the Momitsu uses the same chip as the Bravo D2, even Guitarman's on screen commands in his screen shots (like 'pause') look the same as my Momitsu's. But my Momitsu seems perfectly happy with the 25ft dvi cable I have.

Couple other points about the H31:
> Even though I'm only projecting onto an 60" wide screen, the image didn't seem overly bright to me. In fact, seemed about 'right' (to me). I can't imagine a ND2 filter would help things...in fact, I think an ND2 filter would make it too dim...dimmer than my H30.
> The focus ring wobbles. When focusing the image moves around quite a bit. You can touch the focus ring and see it wobble. The H30 I have now is just like that, but the previous 2 H30's I had didn't, their focus rings were nice and tight and the image didn't shift when you put your fingers on the focus ring. I can live with the wobbly ring, but of course am a little disappointed that it wobbles when I know it doesn't have to. A QC issue it seems.

Fleaman

Mjolson,

What firmware does your H30 have? CO5 puts the 16:9 image at the bottom of the 4:3 box and CO7 firmware puts it at the top of the 4:3 box.

The H31 offset is similar to the H30 with the CO7 firmware.

Fleaman

Another thing to consider is the throw. The H57 has a longer throw lens than the H31. I can't get an image small enough to fit within the black borders of my screen whereas with the H31, the image at it's smallest size was just a little smaller than the dimensions of my screen.For the sake of clarity: the H57 has a SHORTER throw. It is only 1.57-1.87 while the H31's is 1.65-2.0.

Is anyone using an ND2 filter to cut lumens on the H31? I know this is popular with the 4805 crowd. I'm mainly concerned with how to mount the filter, over the outside edge, or suspended inside somehow??

Edit:
On second thought, I still have a 55mm FLD filter - I'll give that a shot as it should cut output and potentially improve reds. Just need to figure out how to mount it...Mike, the inner diameter of the lens' housing is 67 mm. By pure luck, I tried my 67 mm (photo) polarizing filter, which is neutral gray in color. The filter fit inside and stayed put but not very securely. Since this was very quick try, it did not try to secure it. A piece or two of "sticky tape" might be enough.
I did not attempt to recalibrate the pj since this was not a serious ND-filter test. Without projector adjustment, I did not like the image.

Mike

Mjolson,

What firmware does your H30 have? CO5 puts the 16:9 image at the bottom of the 4:3 box and CO7 firmware puts it at the top of the 4:3 box.

The H31 offset is similar to the H30 with the CO7 firmware.

Fleaman


I forgot about that! Mine is the CO5. Looks like I'll be raising my screen a bit.

I forgot about that! Mine is the CO5. Looks like I'll be raising my screen a bit.

Yeah, when Optoma replaced my H30 CO5 with a CO7 firmware, I had to drop the projector about 10" further down...a real bummer. Unlike those with basement HT's, I have it in my living room with medium high ceilings, so I actually like large offset projectors and the H30 with the CO5 firmware worked perfect for me.

Fleaman

Hey Mike(Ser),

Here's a definition for short and long throw lenses that I pulled off of a 3M Multimedia website:

Long Throw Lens
Enables a projector to decrease its image size over the standard lens at the same throw distance. With a long throw distance the user is able to project a smaller image so that it will fit on the screen.

Short Throw Lens
Enables a projector to increase its image size over the standard lens at the same throw distance. The user can create larger images at closer distances.

Don't these describe the H57 and H31 respectively? I always thought that short throw lens projectors allowed people to use smaller rooms and vice versa for long throw projectors. I know that the H57 isn't suitable for me at 13' away from a 92" diagonal screen yet the H31 could fit in an even smaller screen from this distance.

Am I confused about this?

Wayne

Yeah, when Optoma replaced my H30 CO5 with a CO7 firmware, I had to drop the projector about 10" further down...a real bummer. Unlike those with basement HT's, I have it in my living room with medium high ceilings, so I actually like large offset projectors and the H30 with the CO5 firmware worked perfect for me.

Fleaman

Looking at the manual, it looks like the H31 has a 13% offset, which only should move my screen up by about 4" - I can live with that. I have low ceilings so I was used to looking "straight ahead" at the screen. Looking up a little is no problem, just not sure where the center channel is going to go now.

mystery, guitarman and fleaman,
Thanks for your responses. I appreciate it.

fleaman you have a PM from me.

Looking at the manual, it looks like the H31 has a 13% offset, which only should move my screen up by about 4" - I can live with that. I have low ceilings so I was used to looking "straight ahead" at the screen. Looking up a little is no problem, just not sure where the center channel is going to go now.

what page in the manual is that on ?
I was told the offset was 37.5% of screen height ?

Can anyone tell me what the Digital Lens Shift with 2 positional memories does ?

Yes, the offset IS actually 37.5% of screen height, regardless of where you place projector, or what zoom factor you are using. (assuming, of course, you will fill the screen with the projected image.) See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5659015#post5659015

The Digital Lens Shift is really only useful for moving the image within the letterbox bars. For full 16:9 material, any amount of digital lens shift will result in cropping of the image. You can, for example, "shift" the whole 2.35:1 image to the top, or bottom of the screen if you like. You will basically be cropping off one of the letterbox bars. The 2 memories would probably be used for separate settings for 1.85:1 and 2.35:1 material. You might, for example, set it up so that all formats are aligned with the top of your pulldown screen, and then just roll the screen down to different heights for the different formats. You then don't need masking, and you can control the "lens shift" from your remote. (i.e. you don't need to fiddle with the projector once it's setup.)

Here's a definition for short and long throw lenses that I pulled off of a 3M Multimedia website:

Long Throw Lens
Enables a projector to decrease its image size over the standard lens at the same throw distance. With a long throw distance the user is able to project a smaller image so that it will fit on the screen.

Short Throw Lens
Enables a projector to increase its image size over the standard lens at the same throw distance. The user can create larger images at closer distances.

Don't these describe the H57 and H31 respectively? I always thought that short throw lens projectors allowed people to use smaller rooms and vice versa for long throw projectors. I know that the H57 isn't suitable for me at 13' away from a 92" diagonal screen yet the H31 could fit in an even smaller screen from this distance.

Am I confused about this?WayneIn my opinion, the first paragraph is horrible; the second one is good.
Maybe this Optoma's info will help: http://www.optomahometheater.com/howto/b2_2.asp
The short and long adjectives relate to the projection distance for a given (desired) image size.
Short throw is intended for placing projector in a small room and on a table in front of the viewers.
Long throw is intended to be mounted on a ceiling or a back wall, usually behind the viewers.

Long throw is desired for mounting a projector behind the viewers.
The H31 tops out at 2.0, which is too short in my particular situation. I bought it based on good reviews and excellent price, but I wished it extended to 2.2 ratio or so.

Mike

Yes, the offset IS actually 37.5% of screen height, regardless of where you place projector, or what zoom factor you are using. (assuming, of course, you will fill the screen with the projected image.) See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5659015#post5659015




That makes sense. Pity they can't just state that clearly in the manual. Guess I'll be doing some unanticipated work on my screen area tonight!

H31 is here (but not unpacked yet) ;) .

----------- Jason

The Digital Lens Shift is really only useful for moving the image within the letterbox bars. For full 16:9 material, any amount of digital lens shift will result in cropping of the image. You can, for example, "shift" the whole 2.35:1 image to the top, or bottom of the screen if you like. You will basically be cropping off one of the letterbox bars. The 2 memories would probably be used for separate settings for 1.85:1 and 2.35:1 material. You might, for example, set it up so that all formats are aligned with the top of your pulldown screen, and then just roll the screen down to different heights for the different formats. You then don't need masking, and you can control the "lens shift" from your remote. (i.e. you don't need to fiddle with the projector once it's setup.)

I think that on some movies with subtitles in the letterbox area (of a 1.85 or 2.35 movie), if you were to shift the image to the bottom of the 16:9 box, you might lose the subtitles. I've only had my H31 for a couple days now, so hadn't had a chance to check that out, but I do remember that some subtitled movies will put the subtitles below the image in the black bar area.

Just a thought.

Fleaman

Well then - it sounds like I will have to use keystone orrection if I really want this projector. For a 54" tall screen - my image will fall about 20.5" too low and I can't move the screen any lower! I wonder how much I could just tilt the projector up to bring the image up about 20" without using keystone correction - would it throw the screen uniforimty that far out of whack ?

H31 is here (but not unpacked yet) ;) .

----------- Jason

SWEET!

gosh i hope you can get this to work right

H31 is here (but not unpacked yet) ;) .

----------- Jason


What a coincidence...mine is at home waiting for me fresh off the UPS delivery truck. Unfortunately, I had to pay for mine. Fortunately though, I get to keep it! :D

- Jason

Well let's see, I have over 300 unopened dvds, and about 3 weeks before I have to leave town for the summer. No H31 for me until sometime in August. How much movie watching can a person take in during a day? I guess I'm going to find out...

I think that on some movies with subtitles in the letterbox area (of a 1.85 or 2.35 movie), if you were to shift the image to the bottom of the 16:9 box, you might lose the subtitles.

Yep, the digital lens shift can wipe out the subtitles, if they are in the letterbox area, and you are shifting down.

If you are ceiling mounted, though, and want to keep the top edge constant, you will be shifting up, and cropping the top edge..

But you are right. You may lose the letterbox area if you crop the botom. I have heard that some dvd players, and PC software players are able to adjust the position of the subtitles. This might be a workaround..

I am still not convinced the digital lens shift is all that useful. I'd much prefer a REAL lens shift. (Though the same issues with subtitles would apply..)

Jason,

Great news! Have fun and see if you can experience the tearing/syncing problems with HTPC.

Hope you don't make a mistake and send your 4805 back to Optoma instead of the H31 after the 45 days are up. :D

Wayne

If I remember correctly, some review said the digital lens shift wasn't a Lens-Shift feature, it was for keeping one edge of a 16:9 image static when you wanted to watch a 2.35:1 source movie, ie: to aid in masking.

I guess people have been playing with it to "sort of" aproximate a lens-shift feature but that the pixel crop was massive, like 10% was lost on a 1.78:1 image...versus 0 on a 2.35:1 image.

is it fixed yet? is it fixed yet? ;)

What a coincidence...mine is at home waiting for me fresh off the UPS delivery truck. Unfortunately, I had to pay for mine. Fortunately though, I get to keep it! :D

- Jason


Yeah , Yeah ... But I already have an ISF'd InFocus 4805 ceiling mounted connected via DVI to a seriously tweaked HTPC (and the image is , well ... STUNNING :D ) .

---------- Jason

Jason,

Great news! Have fun and see if you can experience the tearing/syncing problems with HTPC.

Hope you don't make a mistake and send your 4805 back to Optoma instead of the H31 after the 45 days are up. :D

Wayne

:eek: Not gonna' happen !


;) --------- Jason

is it fixed yet? is it fixed yet? ;)

Well if by 'fixed' you mean pixel mapped via HTPC , then ... yes :eek: .

--------- Jason



*** Gotcha , not yet actually ... I have not even connected it ;) ***

Gentlemen:

There is important work to be done. Let us post less, and tweak more! :D

Last night I tried the Custom resolutions on my Momitsu V880DX and successfully achieved 854 x 480 over dvi digital.

Yeah, I know most are waiting for this achievement with HTPC's, but I thought to at least let people know it was easy to do with the V880DX dvd player.

I tried a few different 854x480 settings and a 848x480 setting and was pretty much successful.

854x480 @ 75hz:
Now, what is very interesting is that my Momitsu's setup menu is EXACTLY the same as Guitarman's Bravo D2 setup menu (that he posted the screen shot of). Everything in the dvi custom settings on-screen menu is the same as Guitarmans, color, design, even the stock settings numbers. In fact, when I first accessed the dvi custom settings, I noticed it looked the same and printed out Guitarman's screen shot and not only was it exact, I could see that every setting was the same except for the video width and video height settings, which are the only settings that Guitarman had changed. When 1st accessed, the dvi custom setting menu has the default video horiz as 1024 and video height as 768, I changed only those settings to 854 and 480 and all the rest of the settings were the exact same as Guitarman's, and like Guitarman, it worked fine with the exception that it looks like I lost 3 to 4 pixels on the left and right sides of the screen. Otherwise everything was stable and my H31 synced it as 854x480 @ 75hz, mode 87.

854x480 @ 60hz:
I then tried some other settings using the dvi custom settings calculator from this Site (http://home1.gte.net/res18h39/customdvi.htm) , but have to admit, since there is no 854x480 default to chose from, I would 1st bring up the settings for 720x480 then only change the width and horz to 854x480, then hit the 'Validate' button and then enter all those results into my Momitsu. Doing it that way worked (H31 read as 854x480 @ 60hz, mode 52), still lost the 3 to 4 pixels LH/RH, but once in a while, would see a quick horizontal line move up the screen.

848x480 @ 60hz:
Pretty much the same as above, loss of 3 to 4 pixels LH/RH, but no horizontal line noticed.

There was another 854x480 setting that I tried and didn't notice any horizontal random line, but still lost the 3 to 4 pixels LH/RH.

So, from the limited time I spent on custom resolutions, every custom resolution seemed to deactivate the far RH/LH 3 to 4 pixels vertical pixels. One of the settings gave me a horizontal moving line once in a while.

Interestingly, I couldn't really notice any pic quality differences between the custom resolutions I tried and the default 480p, 720p, etc. dvi settings from the Momitsu stock resolutions menu. Part of this might be due to the fact that to change to any resolution, I have to eject the dvd, then reload. Total time between my memory of the last visual and the new visual at the different resolution was about 3-5 minutes. I cannot change resolutions on the fly. Maybe because of this, I also didn't notice much if any difference between the stock 480p, 720p and 1080i settings either. I did notice a difference between component and dvi though.

Now, while my H31 read the 854x480, it's very likely that the remaining settings were not ideal. I'm not sure how one is suppose to come up with all the perfect #'s, as that dvi calculation site won't calculate all the remaining settings from just width and height alone (even if freq was also given).

So, for now I'm back to the stock 480p dvi setting as it doesn't deactivate (?) my LH/RH pixels and everything else appears to look the same to me. Why is it that the 854x480 settings I tried would loose pixels and the stock 720x480 wouldn’t?
If I could change the resolutions on the fly, I might be better able to notice smaller differences, but it's really hard, w/o spending way more time, to notice differences when you have to eject the disc out of the player to change resolutions.

BTW, some things that I read about the Momitsu’s were that the player didn't respond to the remote very well. I'm happy to report that this is not the case with my Momitsu. The remote is funky (card style), but the player responded well to it. I will probably program my universal remote at some point to take those duties over. Also, the Momitsu did lock up on me a couple times, but I might have to take into account that I was doing a lot of settings changes in/out that might of just been too much too soon for the player to handle. Maybe under normal load and play situations it won't lock. I had to disconnect the pwr to unlock it one time. And, anytime you disconnect the pwr (or have a pwr failure), you will loose all your settings (not just the custom ones) and will have to start from scratch to set up the player.

Last thing I noticed is that when you have the dvi out enabled, the s-video and component outs are deactivated. I didn't check the composite out. Since my regular CRT TV doesn't take dvi, I will have to keep my older (!) panny xp30 around to play dvd's on my TV, because it's a pain to change between dvi and component/s-video....dvi is blank when component/s-video is on and component/s-video is blank with dvi is on...so I need to have 2 display devices to change outputs. Only my H31 has dvi. It would just seem stupid for me to turn on the projector, just so I can see the setup menu of the Momitsu (dvi activated) to change it to component, then turn off the projector.....all just to watch a dvd on my TV!

Fleaman

Well here is what I have so far ...

--- Nothing from HTPC via 5m DVI-D cable , the HTPC does not even know the H31 is there (note : this cable functions perfectly with the 4805 from the same HTPC) .
---- This cable is known to be good as it works via my HD cable box into the H31 (as well as the 4805 via either HD cable or HTPC) .
---- So thus far I have to conclude that the H31 has a 'questionable' DVI interface for PC use (obviously it works great for standalone dvd players) .
---- I have another 5m DVI-D cable that I might try but I am not expecting it to work either since both of my (5m) DVI-D cables function perfectly with the 4805 . Now maybe a shorter DVI-D cable would do the trick but at that point anything under 5m is getting into the table-top territory which is not what us HT folk do most of the time ;) .

--- More to come .... ;)

-------- Jason

Jason, that was exactly my experience with a 15 ft Monster DVI-D cable.

I am presently using a DVI-I cable and using the DVI-A selection on the H31 as I can not get DVI-D to work even from three different PC's with three different video cards.

Jason, that was exactly my experience with a 15 ft Monster DVI-D cable.

I am presently using a DVI-I cable and using the DVI-A selection on the H31 as I can not get DVI-D to work even from three different PC's with three different video cards.

Yeah , I have no doubt that I can get Analog working but digital is what we want in order to take advantage of pixel mapping (besides eliminating any DAC) .

---------- Jason

Will those few of you out there that get an image from HTPC via DVI-D please share what length cable you are using ?


------- Thanks ,
-------- Jason

Will those few of you out there that get an image from HTPC via DVI-D please share what length cable you are using ?


------- Thanks ,
-------- Jason

Yes I will be happy to get that info too, becaouse tomarow my H31 should get to my home. and i want to know what cable to buy DVI-I or DVI-D ?

Jason,

I am ecstatic that you are having problems right off the bat! :) This proves that this syncing problem between HTPCs and the H31's DVI input isn't something unusual to my experience or that of Rick's (rbastedo).

However, my problem in this area is a little different in that I have tried two different brand new H31s in my home using the same cable and HTPC and both initially received a digital signal over DVI-D for about maybe a week and then POOF! Nothing. I tried removing the cables and reinserting them, rebooting, different refresh rates, different resolutions, even different cables and no matter what I attempted, the signal just refused to return. I was able to use a DVI to VGA adapter though and get an analog signal through to the DVI port of the H31. Small consolation indeed. Like you, I was also able to get a Panasonic S97 and the Toshiba upconverting player to send a consistent signal over DVI to the H31. Yet HTPCs are a problem.

So far I believe that I'm the only one who's had a digital signal and then lost it. Usually it seems you either get it or you don't.

I'm presently enjoying an H57 loaner in my home while my current H31 is in for testing. Optoma Canada is attempting to re-create in their offices what my configuration is here at my home in order to try to simulate my experience and duplicate the problem there.

In the meantime, the H57 recognized the HTPC and vice-versa immediately right from the start, (just like the two H31s did but couldn't hold onto the signal) and I've been testing this H57 out for two weeks now with not a glitch in syncing.

Since they're both Optoma products I think that the comparison is valid and Optoma ought to be informed and take notice. The H31 has a definite problem in this area where it would appear that the H57 does not.

Now as to your question about cable length, I'm using a very expensive Ultralink Pro DVI-D cable 15 meters or 49 feet long. This sucker is a half an inch thick! No sparklies, no drop-outs, just a pristine image.

By the way, I've tried several cards as well. Currently the nVIDIA PCX Geforce 5300. I also tried the BFG 6600GT and ATI Radeon X700 Pro. The 6600 GT couldn't get a signal to the H31. The X700 initially did then after a power outage, when the electricity came back on, the image was lost and never came back. I have both the HTPC and H31 plugged into Monster Clean Power surge protectors. I also lost the signal to the H31 using my current 5300 card. This card is presently working flawlessly with the H57.

Good luck. I doubt that you'll be able to get the H31 to work digitally now. It seems to either work or it doesn't and even when it does, there's no assurance that it'll keep working.

Like you said, exactly my experience as well, it's like the H31 isn't even plugged into the computer.

This doesn't help us with the tearing issue unfortunately but I feel that the syncing issue is far more important because if you can't get a digital signal in the first place, tearing is the least of your problems.

Jason, perhaps you might be able to do some tweaking over VGA. The tearing is evident here too and billymac has been using this kind of cable and is very frustrated at the tearing.

Wayne

Fleaman,
So with your player you get about 3 pixels on the left and ride side that get cut off? if this is true, I am getting the same thing, but i get all 6 pixels on the right but they still show, but they are all the same... Guitarman, do you experience any pixels gone with the Bravo2?

Jason,
Now that i think about it, I did buy a DVI-D cable once, and it did not work, but it might have been with the H30 through vga adapter, but anyway, I tried another DVI-D cable still no luck, but then i got a 6ft Duel DVI-I cable, and it worked great, who here is using a Duel Cable, and who is using a Single DVI cable? Because I know most Video cards need the Analog signal to send to certain displays to be able to recognize there is a signal. So that might be something you want to try, a Duel DVI-I cable. I get an analog signal untill windows loads up, and then it goes to a didital signal on my HTPC.

Hope this helps some...

Arty

If I understand correctly - you CAN get a HTPC with 1280 x 720 to work with the H31 via DVI connection (POST# 1902) ??

From the Days I remember on the HS10 - to get 1:1 mapping - you had a setting in the setup menu that told the projector it was dealing with a "computer" as input. If you din't have that set - it wouldn't do 1:1 from a computer. I wonder now what exactly that did - as it seems that the H31 needs to "know" it is connected to a computer.

Arty, I didn't see lost pixels. When I displayed pixel cropping all sides were zero. I had a feeling 60hz could be entered ok, fleaman next time enter the 59xxx number. That site says they'll be less twiter.

Long DVI cables not working. That's were I'm at with the Bravo D2 and H31, same deal with the HT1000. Not the H79 though, it seems different projectors draw DVI signals at different rates. Plus different sources send signals at different rates. And never the two shall meet. ;)

Arty, I didn't see lost pixels. When I displayed pixel cropping all sides were zero. I had a feeling 60hz could be entered ok, fleaman next time enter the 59xxx number. That site says they'll be less twiter.



It actually was the 59.94 number....but the H31 reads it as 60hz, so that's how I listed it.

Fleaman

Well I would question a DVI-I cable working for Digital since DVI-D does not work for Digital on the H31 from an HTPC . But if some of you are certain that you are getting a Digital signal to the H31 with a DVI-I cable then I would be happy to try it (only problem is that I do not have one ;) ) .
--- Anybody want to offer up a DVI-I cable (max of 5m) for testing purposes ?

------- Thanks ,
-------- Jason

Well here is what I have so far ...

--- Nothing from HTPC via 5m DVI-D cable , the HTPC does not even know the H31 is there (note : this cable functions perfectly with the 4805 from the same HTPC) .
-------- Jason


Jason,

Does the computer detect the H31 as a plug and play monitor using the analog mode?

The reason i ask is,

While the DVD-D signals for the video are differential pair signals. It appears that the signals associated with the plug and play and reading the configuration of the monitor are not and i am not sure what their level or current rating is for drivers.

in my opinion as an electronics engineer, these control signals might have problems with different lengths of cables.

The video signals themselves, seem to be well defined in the specification and they should work over long distances.

this is from the DVI specification,

specifically there are five control signals

five signals associated with configuration, the hot plug connnect (used by monitor to say it is there), the data clock and data out, and a +5V and gnd. The +5V (55ma) is supposed to provide information to the data circuitry on the monitor if it is not on.

the configuration data and clock are used in what is known as a I2C bus, a serial data bus, VESA calls it access bus and the maxumum length of the cable is specificed as 10 meters.

So that begs the question, do you turn the monitor on first or the PC? Is it the configuration part or the video signals?

Given some narrowing this down to control or video signals and then having a breakout cable and a scope could narrow this down even farther.

Certainly not much of an expert on this at all, just trying to come up with an idea here. Vastly appreciate the work of everyone on this.

David

David ,

--- I do not know as of yet on the analog detection because I do not have a DVI-I cable to test and I am not working with VGA at this point . If I can at least get the HTPC to see the H31 over DVI then I can dig deeper ;) .

--- I am thinking this has something to do with cable length as well but with that said how many people would be using a 6' DVI cable in an HT room (not many) . The problem here seems to be a poor PC DVI interface (chip?) within the H31 since nobody has been able to get a hold on this issue .

--- Thanks for the input ,
------------ Jason

Tom,
It seems that I am losing confidence in the Momitsu player since it is cropping pixels for Fleaman. Bummer. Pixel cropping is what I get right now with my 318. Am I crazy to want o try the D2 with a 5 meter dvi-d cable? Is that too ong of a cable for the D2?

I've been doing mostly hdtv watching up until a couple of days ago. Now that I'm working a lot with my upconverting dvd players, I'm seeing that my 318 is quite quirky. Although the unit hasn't locked up so that none of the buttons work, it has locked so that only one graphic is on the screen when I hit play. It might be a wierd color pattern, part of the startup logo, an out of sync image with bad colors, etc. The list goes on. Sometimes the statis image is right there on startup. When I got back from dinner last night, the dvi jack was not putting out anything at all!! The only thing that got it back was unplugging it. At 1080i I get some white dots at the top of the screen. The 318 thread informs users that the fix for this is to simply power down, then power up again(it seems that changing resolutions produces the dots). Well, doing this either wipes out my dvi output entirely so that I have to unplug it again, or I might get another wierd static graphic. I keep fiddling with it until I get a moving image again, but the white dots are still there for 1080i. The other resolutions are fine. It's crazy.

Wayne, have you experienced anything like this with your LG?

On the up side, I did discover that the image quality of the 318 improved dramatically when I unplugged it from the back of my cablebox, and into the main power strip. The cleaner power paid off. I just wish I could get rid of the quirky behavior. It's very likely that my 318 has always had the potential to act up this way. I think that I'm only seeing it now because I'm messing with it a lot.

I should mention that I'm not getting anything quirky from my Sammy 931 player. The image of the 318 beats it, but the Sammy is quite stable in it's performance.

I'll be trying mine via vga tonight - we'll see how it goes.

Funny how the smallest oversight can ruin your evening - I had my H30/H31 swap all ready to go - new mount position, screen position, center channel position, component cables, blah blah blah. I had the H31 mounted and all set to go, then I noticed that they had changed the power cable to a different plug style and made it 4' shorter. The old one was snaked through a drop ceiling and attached to an exactly perfect length extension cord - too short for the new one :mad:

Jason,
Isn't it crazy that a 5 meter dvi-d can work fine for a dvd player or hd box(like mine does), but won't work with the htpc signal? I haven't gotten into htpcs yet, but would like to, if you guys get this solved. As you mentioned, not many would have a use for a 6' dvi-i cable in a HT, but I have a couple lying around if you need something to experiment with. Just let me know. They are single links, not dual. My 5 meter dvi-d cable is a dual.

Jason,
Isn't it crazy that a 5 meter dvi-d can work fine for a dvd player or hd box(like mine does), but won't work with the htpc signal? .

Perhaps i was a bit um, over board in my discussion.

Here is what I think i know about DVI-D, HDMI, HDCP, HTPC.

DVI-D has two sets of signals, the Video, and the configuration signals. The video signals use two pair of conductors and a standard receiver/transmitter chip.

The configuration signals are not as standard, from reading the specification. That is, there is not a single chip that you go buy that is a receiver and transmitter like for the video, you hang some transistors and resistors togethor.

These configuration signals are used for plug and play detection of the monitor and for HDCP.

I bet normally, DVD players do not use this information unless they are trying to send audio.

I bet satellite boxes, digital cable boxes do use these signals.

So... here is my theory.....

Normal DVD player works because, it doesn't need the configuration signals from the monitor.

HTPC and satellite/cable boxes don't work because, they do need these signals.

So, video aside, it might be possible that DVD players work with long cables because the video is fine (at least for 720x480) and it is the configuration signals that are sensitive to cable length.

I hope so anyway as i have a 30ft DVI-D cable coming in to replace my 3ft cable. ;).

If i were an engineer at optoma, given a 'bad' unit, i could confirm, deny this in a couple of hours by putting a breakout box in line with the cable and monitoring the information on an oscilloscope.

That could also suggest some possible fixes, for example, and adaptor that would amplify these signals.

Anyway, if anyone can confirm deny this hypothesis let me know. I am always willing to learn more about DVI and stuff.

David

Jason,
Isn't it crazy that a 5 meter dvi-d can work fine for a dvd player or hd box(like mine does), but won't work with the htpc signal? I haven't gotten into htpcs yet, but would like to, if you guys get this solved. As you mentioned, not many would have a use for a 6' dvi-i cable in a HT, but I have a couple lying around if you need something to experiment with. Just let me know. They are single links, not dual. My 5 meter dvi-d cable is a dual.

If you have a couple DVI-I cables sitting there then yes I could use one for testing purposes and send it back once the H31 evaluation period is over . I really do not want to invest any more money in cables at this time plus I do not need a DVI-I cable or I would just buy one and keep it for myself . USPS Priority mail on something as light as a 6' DVI cable should be $3.85 and if you are willing to pay shipping to me I will pay for the return shipping .
--- let me know (thanks for the offer) ,
------ Jason

David ,

--- Your theory sounds close to me as I do think there is something wrong with the Digital signals (cable length) regarding the H31's DVI-D I/O . The problem obviously does come from within the H31 since the 4805 works perfectly with the exact same cables (same sources) . So if a short DVI-D cable does indeed work then possibly a DVI-D repeater could be used for longer cable runs .

--- Oh and the H31 does work from an HD cable box via a 5m DVI-D cable ;) . So it would seem that the problem is only in the PC domain .

------------- Jason

Wing told me DVI-I or DVI-D would work.

I have all types, I have DVI-I 30', DVI-D 25' and a DVI-I signal link, this last cable is the 6'er that will let the Bravo D2 work. It's also a connector that deletes the center two rows of three pins. I figure there's never any info over the center two rows with players to the projectors.

The problem here with the H31 just like the HT1000 is their DVI input needs a strong signal. For sure because all the cables with work with the H79. The H79 must have a stronger DVI-input connection.

You know what for a minute I got the Bravo D2 to work over the 25ft cable but the signal went out after I stopped the player to change a DVD. I got some odd colored mosaic LSD picture. I guess that's what you mean by tearing.

Problems could be solved by buying a distribution amplifier from Digital Connection at $299. ouch

How about this, is there a way to increase the DVI signal output with HTPC?

it will nevvvvvver worrrrk....we'rrrrre dooooommmmmmmed-

aren't dvi extender's like $500!

lol, no thanks

i think my signature should read, "shoulda bought a 4805 -- ask me why" ;)

Jason,
This is the DVI-I cable I have, and for me this works, I have not tried anything longer than 2M yet, since I have no need for it yet.
http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?cat%5Fid=2804&sku=26948

If i had an extra DVI-I cable i would ship it to ya, but dont, and dont really want to buy a 5m one now for later... so yeah...

Arty

David,

I have a 49 foot cable that works either with a DVD player's DVI output or my HTPC's without a problem except that the signal only lasts for a week or so and then disappears. I think if you have a good or great quality cable as I do, distance shouldn't be an issue. Ultralink guarantees that my type of cable will deliver DVI digital signals for distances of up to 100 feet!

Wayne

. It's also a connector that deletes the center two rows of three pins. I figure there's never any info over the center two rows with players to the projectors.

How about this, is there a way to increase the DVI signal output with HTPC?

So the DVI-D connector male from the front is like this

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 _____
17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

you are missing pins 6 7 8 and 14 15 16?

those are the configuration pins, pin 8 is an analog pin, for some reason, All the other pins are involved with the digital video.

Interesting.

I believe that DVI-D uses what is called low voltage differential signalling (LVDS) to send the digital video data.

This is a standard and you buy standard receivers chips and standard transmitter chips. I imagine some are better than others but it is still a standard. There is some options in selecting a terminating resistor next to the receiver so maybe that is a difference in the H31 vice the H57.

Apparently a little research does find that performance of LVDS is dependent up cable length and you also get more jitter with longer cable.

Now just another side note, maybe another avenue, within the dvi-d specification there are five modes that deal with power management, one of which is non-recoverable, which sounds like you have to power down and then up again, some turn of the receiver, some the transmitter.

Does the H31 need to be unplugged and plugged back in?

Could power management on the HTPC be getting in the way?

David

Jason,

I am so sorry, but I've made a huge mistake. I went to check over my cables to get one ready to ship to you, and I noticed that they are dvi-d, not dvi-i. I remembered it wrong. Bummer. Does anyone else have a dvi-i to ship to Jason? I can still send the dvi-d, as it's a 6 footer. Perhaps you'll get different results with a shorter cable. If you still want it, then PM your address to me.

Lenny,
Was it you that I told that I got a decent analog picture over a dvi-i cable? Well, I'll have to change that now. I messed up, and forgot that I was simply checking a vga signal going through the dvi port, using an adapter. It wasn't a pure vga signal, as I took the component output of my Moxi box and ran it through a comp. to vga adapter first. This is why I saw a good picture with no tearing, I'm sure. I'm sorry, everyone...

David, looks like the missing center pins are just dual link. No info is going over these. That's why Wing said either would work. I have DVI-D or DVI they call it (no center pins). The other two cables I have are the DVI-D Dual link as they have all the pins accept the four square analog pins which we don't want. Anyway all these cables will work as long as they're short enough or the signal is strong enough.

Jedi, If your DVI-D Dual link is as I descreibed (all eight rows of pins with no four square analog pins) it will work for Jason. He just needs the shorter cable.

jedi35 ,

--- No problem and I would still like to try a shorter DVI-D cable since it should work according to what Tom is saying . I will PM you my info (thanks) ;) .

______________________


-- I just tried my other 5m DVI-D cable and still a No Go , the first cable was Single Link and the recent one is Dual Link (same cable I am currently using with my 4805) .


----------- Jason