I didn't remember if I had tried powering up the H31 while detecting display so I just did that and still no joy for digital and it still sees it as "Analog Display" not an H31 when on DVI-A selection (H31 DVI-A button) or any other as far as that goes.

jedi35 ,

-- PM sent :) .

thank you !

----------- Jason

I think that on some movies with subtitles in the letterbox area (of a 1.85 or 2.35 movie), if you were to shift the image to the bottom of the 16:9 box, you might lose the subtitles. I've only had my H31 for a couple days now, so hadn't had a chance to check that out, but I do remember that some subtitled movies will put the subtitles below the image in the black bar area.Fleaman, you are correct.

Mike

I wonder if there's anything that can be done by going into the H31's service menu? Possibly the DVI input could be calibrated to PC specs from in there??

I've sent digital signals successfully 50 feet from the computer and Panny S97 to the H31 and H57 over DVI-D. The difference being that the H57 consistently gets a digital picture from any device I've tried over that length and shorter lengths as well.

jedi,

Sorry to hear that you now are experiencing the LG/Zenith player idiosyncracies. I have the dotted line at the top but I tweak the user menu in the projector to hide it. The pixel cropping is evident and it's a pain because the projector has to be moved and the zoom lens readjusted when going back and forth between the LG and the HTPC.

The lock ups and freezes are common too over DVI. But the image is very good for a DVD player otherwise.

They say that the new Panny S77 is pretty good. Sort of a stripped down S97 but without the macroblocking etc...

Wayne

My H31 arrived as well. No joy on the HTPC front here either. Heck, I can't even get it to recognize VGA! Boot screen is fine, windows logo is fine, but once windows starts, the H31 loses it. The only way I can get it to work is to boot into safe mode. I have the display set for plain old 800x600, 60hz, no powerstrip. There shouldn't be a projector on earth that can't see that.

I'm VERY happy with the PQ from my aging 480i dvd player on this projector. Black level is obviously better than my H30, and finally the light spill is gone forever. And I have to say, this thing is very quiet. It worries me a bit that it's the same chasis, with a higher wattage bulb, and it's noticeably quieter than the H30. Hope we don't run into premature bulb failure issues.

Good luck to those who are trying to get the HTPC interface thing solved. It's kind of ridiculous that Optoma has a business projector line, yet this thing won't communicate correctly with a PC. Should be a no-brainer for them.

-Mike

High Power Screen and Back Wall Color

We had the back wall of our recroom painted flat black on Thursday with two coats of Dulux outdoor paint. The result is absolutely fabulous! It's a very flat paint and it has reduced reflections off of the wall to basically nothing.

With a High Power screen, it's retro-reflective properties cause light from the lens to travel directly back to the lens and then reflect from there again to the screen. This causes blacks and contrast ratio to washout. You can see the difference and measure it with AVIA.

I went from pre-painted levels of 11 Contrast and -15 Brightness to post painted levels of -10 Contrast and 1 Brightness. Quite a difference! Now, standing at the front of the room several feet off to the side of the screen and looking back at the projector, you can clearly see a triangular path of light emanating from the lens, broadening out as a triangle in it's destination to the screen. The black back drop behind this light displays a remarkable contrast and it's comparable to looking at a spotlight in the dark.

Anyone using a High Power screen should blacken their back wall. We also painted about a yard of the false ceiling from where it meets the back wall and then 8" up to the 'real' ceiling.

And surprise, surprise, it actually looks good against the green walls and ceiling of the rest of the room. My WAF even likes it. Can you beat that??
:)

Wayne

Let me personally thank you Wayne for this info! Over the weekend I painted the back wall and ceiling flat black and the results are outstanding...! I never thought one can acheive Blacks on a high powered screen like I now have. Thank You ...Thank You.. My wife said "wow..what a huge difference" It's like a whole new projector!

Edit: and my brightness is -25 and contrast is -16 using DVE

My H31 arrived as well. No joy on the HTPC front here either. Heck, I can't even get it to recognize VGA! Boot screen is fine, windows logo is fine, but once windows starts, the H31 loses it. The only way I can get it to work is to boot into safe mode. I have the display set for plain old 800x600, 60hz, no powerstrip. There shouldn't be a projector on earth that can't see that.

I'm VERY happy with the PQ from my aging 480i dvd player on this projector. Black level is obviously better than my H30, and finally the light spill is gone forever. And I have to say, this thing is very quiet. It worries me a bit that it's the same chasis, with a higher wattage bulb, and it's noticeably quieter than the H30. Hope we don't run into premature bulb failure issues.

Good luck to those who are trying to get the HTPC interface thing solved. It's kind of ridiculous that Optoma has a business projector line, yet this thing won't communicate correctly with a PC. Should be a no-brainer for them.

-Mike

you should be able to see it via vga and the vga/dvi adapter no problem. if you have source lock off, make sure you press dvi-analog on the remote. you're the first person i've heard of to have this problem, so you may want to do some more tinkering. all for not though unless these current issues are addressed and i have almost no faith they will be.

Hey mjolson.
What cable are you using? because this is how it is for me, i get an analog signal until windows actually boots up and the signal goes to digital, try using a DVI-I cable, and push DVI-A during bootup and then push DVI-D during windows. I'm thinking that once windows boots up it is sending out a digital signal not an analog signal, so you loose the connection, it is probably a setting on your Graphics card, as for the safe mode, it stays on analog, because certain drivers dont get loaded, (probably one that switches it to digital), anyone else having this problem like mjolson?
Hope this helps you...

Arty

Analog (VGA) : Try 640x480 @ 60Hz for a resolution to start with since there is no scaler involved there , the 854x480 chip can do 640x480 native while 800x600 needs to be scaled . This may not help , it was just a thought ;) .

-------- Jason

Click here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5707819&&#post5707819

CMRA ,

Yep , I have seen it already and I am honestly shocked ;) .

--- Now you need to try pixel mapping that sucker to 848x480 :D !

------- Jason

Mike (Jolson),

I agree with you. A projector company with a multimedia line ought to be able to incorporate this function into a dedicated for HT unit in a consistent manner.

Lenny,

I am really stoked that you painted your back wall and ceiling black. Good for you! I'm especially happy that your wife liked it. It really does make a noticeable difference doesn't it? Thanks for making my day. It's great the way we all help each other out on this forum.

Arty,

I sure hope that we don't have to start pressing different buttons on the remote at just the right time at bootup just to get this issue solved. What a mickey mouse thing that would be to have to do. Then again, I guess you do what you might have to do in some cases. What a pain this all is eh?

billymac,

If Optoma blinks or winks at this problem as just a blip along the way, then I think you may be correct in that we gambled and lost with this projector. I hope that's not the case but they're probably already well into the H32 production stages now.

Wayne

Analog (VGA) : Try 640x480 @ 60Hz for a resolution to start with since there is no scaler involved there , the 854x480 chip can do 640x480 native while 800x600 needs to be scaled . This may not help , it was just a thought ;) .

-------- Jason


Good idea, I hadn't tried that. I'm actually still using a 30' VGA cable with the Optoma adapter. It's about time for a nuke and pave on my HTPC anyway, maybe I'll start fresh...

No i dont have to switch it to DVI-A to DVI-D, but if i want to see the bootup then i switch it to DVI-A, otherwise it's always on DVI-D

Arty

so this has stalled i take it?

They're too busy with Infocomm right now to do much testing on my H31. Hopefully next week I'll hear back from Optoma.

Wayne

so this has stalled i take it?

--- I am stuck , cannot do anything more here until I have a shorter DVI cable ( jedi is sending me one - Thank You jedi :) !!! ) .


------------------ Jason

Jason,

When I was having troubles with the H31s getting a digital signal, changing to a shorter cable didn't help at all. Maybe it will for you but I had no luck.

Wayne

Wayne ,

--- Damn , Damn ;) .

--- I still have to check it out , according to what Wing told Tom any type DVI cable should work so we shall see if this is truly a cable length issue or not as jedi is sending a 6' DVI-D cable .

:) -------- Jason

we're doooooommmmmmed....we'll nevvvvvver make ittttttt.... :(

hey jason do you have a vga cable you could try. just wondering for shits and giggles if you could verify that what we're indeed seeing is actually tearing. simple test would be to pop in ocean's twelve if you have it and watch the opening credits. there's a solid color morph in there that drives the pj crazy. you'll see the lines we're talking about plain as day.

any other fast motion pan or scene change will do it though ;)

if you get a chance let us know will ya?

Looks like Jason got the twin of my H31.

No digital whatsoever.

Makes some of those responses from Optoma Tech Support look even more ridiculous. As if that were possible.

hey jason do you have a vga cable you could try. just wondering for shits and giggles if you could verify that what we're indeed seeing is actually tearing. simple test would be to pop in ocean's twelve if you have it and watch the opening credits. there's a solid color morph in there that drives the pj crazy. you'll see the lines we're talking about plain as day.

any other fast motion pan or scene change will do it though ;)

if you get a chance let us know will ya?

--- I will check out the VGA sometime soon ;) .

----------- Jason

Looks like Jason got the twin of my H31.

No digital whatsoever.

Makes some of those responses from Optoma Tech Support look even more ridiculous. As if that were possible.


-- Well us HTPC users are the vast minority here so they honestly are probably not going to spend too much time on these issues (thus the general non-descriptive responses :( ) . At least they are allowing me to try and help (now if I could just get a damn image over DVI :p - hehe ) . Plus I get the feeling that the H31 is about to be replaced by a newer model (same with the 4805) .

-------- Jason

Just an update to let everyone know that my dvi-d cable should reach Jason in a couple of days. I know you are all waiting. BTW, this is a single link, not a dual like my 5 meter cord. I had a couple of spare singles that were included with hd stbs I've bought.

jedi,

Thanks for the update. I was wondering what the timeframe might be. With my last H31 I of course tried the 50 foot Ultralink DVI-D Dual Link cable which delivered a digital signal for about a week before it inexplicably disappeared.

When that happened I brought the H31 over to the HTPC and trotted out my shorter 10 foot DVI-D Single Link cable and the results were the same. Here is what my HTPC actually said to me: 'Projector?? What projector!? You've only got a Samsung 17" LCD monitor hooked up. Now run along or I'll do something nasty like catch a virus!!'

Notice that the longer 50 foot cable is Dual Link while the shorter 10 foot one is Single Link.

Then I took both cables and tried each one into a Panny S97 player and immediately with either one, the H31 sprang to life digitally. Back to the HTPC, nothing.

Now here's the kicker. When Optoma Canada received my H31 for testing, they told me that they couldn't get it to exhibit the syncing/tearing problems which I described and which so many others are experiencing. This is when they asked me to provide information as to my exact setup to that they could attempt to duplicate it and hopefully then encounter these problems.

Jason,

Maybe you ought to try hooking the H31 up to another computer. I know that rbastedo has tried this with no success but I find it strange that the same H31 which wouldn't work on my computer did work on Optoma's computer after I sent it back.

Wayne

With all the HTPC talk this may seem a little off topic but has anyone calibrated the H31 with the SMART III system? I just purchased it to be able to dial in a perfect D65 cal and I am having trouble getting good readings. I am using a Panasonic S97 over DVI and whenever I do my calibration runs the contrast always end up barely over 1100:1, which is obviously incorrect. The picture looks incredible so I'm not freaking out about it but I would like to get all the performance out of my pj that I can. What adjustments to the RGB contrast have other S97 users been needing?

Moe

HDMI or DVI? I don't have a digital cable yet and need to run about 25'. What makes the most sense to purchase at this point? Also consider that I'll likely be buying an HDMI player in the near future.

-Mike

With all the HTPC talk this may seem a little off topic but has anyone calibrated the H31 with the SMART III system? I just purchased it to be able to dial in a perfect D65 cal and I am having trouble getting good readings. I am using a Panasonic S97 over DVI and whenever I do my calibration runs the contrast always end up barely over 1100:1, which is obviously incorrect. The picture looks incredible so I'm not freaking out about it but I would like to get all the performance out of my pj that I can. What adjustments to the RGB contrast have other S97 users been needing?

Moe

Are you using the generic DLP version of Smart? If so, then something's definately amiss. I would email Steve and send him your spreadsheet. My first meter was screwed up and they ended up sending me a new one. I haven't used the Smart system on my H31, but my H30 measured in the 1500-1700 range, so the H31 should be much better.

-Mike

Thanks Mike, I think that my blue default value that I received is messed up because everytime I complete a run and analyze the data the color temp ends up around 5000 :eek:. I'll email Steve and see what he thinks.

Moe

I ran some tests this morning with colorfacts. Checking how well Image/PC vs Image Film will do for leveling gamma levels.

PC gamma 1 will hold the flatter gamma level
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h31pcgamma65k.jpg

PC's RGB
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h31pcgammargb.jpg



Film gamma 1 will spike gamma at the high numbers
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h31filmgamma2.jpg

Film's RGBhistory
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h31filmhistogram.jpg

I ran gamma check on each using gamma 2,3 and each time gamma 1 got closet to 2.2 and much flatter with using either Film or PC.

For you guys using DVI here's the numbers for D65k

First in the service area setting up Image/Film gamma 1
Picture -
Gain Red 167
Gain Gr 158
Gain Bl 155

Bias Red 123
Bias Gr 125
Bias Bl 125

DLP's are all at 32

Next PC gamma 1
Service picture area remains the same, just use the User Advanced RGB

Red Contrast minus 2
Gr Contrast 0
Bl Contrast 0

Red Brightness 1
Gr Brightness 0
BL Brightness 1

Don't change any other things in the service menu, just Picture. Don't mess around in there. :) Oh plus write down your original service Picture RGB numbers.

After changing use avia for black and whites my user blacks&whites were the following, at least for PC gamma1 which I'll be using.

Cinema
Contrast minus 17
Brightness zero

Tom, Very nice. What kind of contrast numbers were you getting? Also why do you tweak the service menu RGB settings instead of the user controls? Are they different then the regular RGB controls on the user menu?

Moe

Contrast reading can only be done in pitch black surroundings, morning came so it couldn't be done. But the eye tells me blacks/contrast increased immensely with Image/PC.

I use the picture service controls for two reasons. First Picture send a very small menu box to the upper left corner, out of the way so it doesn't spike the color sensor. 2nd if I dish out these numbers users have a better shot at getting a match.

Picture remains the same so you can give a look at both the Image/PC and Image/Film modes. You just have to change the small number changes in User Adanced RGB's to take a look at how Image/PC looks. Re-tune blacks & whites with Avia or THX with each setup change.

Well I am not going to be doing any thing Home Theater related for at least a couple days as my honda civic was stolen last night and found sitting on its side in a ditch (so a lot of mumbo jumbo to deal with) .

--- I shall return ;) .

--------- Best Wishes ,
------------ Jason

:(

People are scum.


You know you could look at this one of two ways....one, the glass is half empty. They boosted your car and now its on its side.

Or, the glass is half full. "Well, with no wheels looks like I'm stuck home watching movies"!!

...
...
Ok maybe we gotta go with the "half empty" analogy this time....hey, maybe the car rolled over onto its side...onto one of the thieves!?!?!?

I encountered a problem last night with dvi when I tried to play a PAL disc on my Momitsu V880DX while outputting 576 resolutions. The pic turns into 1 big blue fuzzy picture, like I lost Red and Green, but only now outputting blue, and the pic quality seems really fuzzy too (not that I would watch it like this, just another clue).

Now, I can play a PAL disc and let the Momitsu output NTSC 480 and it's fine. Actually, I think I tried a NTSC disc outputting 576 resolution on the Momitsu and I got the same blue screen (I can't remember for sure, will run more extensive tests tonight).

I also tried my cable box dvi output last night and got the blue pictured on 480p and 720p resolutions too! So it doesn’t seem to be just the 576 PAL resolutions, but the cable box DVI is all blue too.

But, again, running dvi out of the Momitsu @ 480, 720 is fine.

So, it doesn't seem to be a problem with the Momitsu since my cable box gives the same blue pic over dvi, seems to be something with the H31.

Any clue??

Fleaman

Sorry about that Jason. I had a car stolen many years back and it sure did piss me off for quite a while.

The fact that it wasn't insured, had a wheel lock (big deal :rolleyes: ) and that I had saved for years to buy it, well, didn't help matters.

Back then I had wished a thousand camel fleas to suck the blood from the thieves until they died a slow and painful death.

And today, well....

I wish the same :eek:

Fleaman

I encountered a problem last night with dvi when I tried to play a PAL disc on my Momitsu V880DX while outputting 576 resolutions. The pic turns into 1 big blue fuzzy picture, like I lost Red and Green, but only now outputting blue, and the pic quality seems really fuzzy too (not that I would watch it like this, just another clue).

Now, I can play a PAL disc and let the Momitsu output NTSC 480 and it's fine. Actually, I think I tried a NTSC disc outputting 576 resolution on the Momitsu and I got the same blue screen (I can't remember for sure, will run more extensive tests tonight).

I also tried my cable box dvi output last night and got the blue pictured on 480p and 720p resolutions too! So it doesn’t seem to be just the 576 PAL resolutions, but the cable box DVI is all blue too.

But, again, running dvi out of the Momitsu @ 480, 720 is fine.

So, it doesn't seem to be a problem with the Momitsu since my cable box gives the same blue pic over dvi, seems to be something with the H31.

Any clue??

Fleaman

Was the cable box off before you started up the H31? Could be a hand shake problem. I think the handshake proceedure is

Display on, device on

Turning off is
Device off, display off

How about the re-sync button?

I'll test out the Comcast box tonight. Plus I'll grayscale an Analog progressive signal with Image/PC gamma 1, using a Denon 1600/XP30/RP82, If anyone needs it.

Was the cable box off before you started up the H31? Could be a hand shake problem. I think the handshake proceedure is

Display on, device on

Turning off is
Device off, display off

How about the re-sync button?

I'll test out the Comcast box tonight. Plus I'll grayscale an Analog progressive signal with Image/PC gamma 1, using a Denon 1600/XP30/RP82, If anyone needs it.

No, the cable box was not off. Just unplug dvi from Momitsu into cable box while H31 was on. H31 syncs to it, but as mentioned, everything is blue and fuzzy, but you can still the pic, albeit badly.

This happened when switching resolutions on the Momitsu to 576. But every time I put it back to non-576 resolutions on the Momitsu, pic would go back to normal.

Remember, before you think it's a PAL issue, the Cable box gives the same bad blue pic on all dvi settings, which are of course NTSC.

I would switch the inputs on the H31 to say s-video or component, then back to dvi-d to try to get it to re-sync, but it would always re-sync it as a blue fuzzy pic...you can see what's playing, but besides being only heavily blue, it's also pretty fuzzy.

Remember, Momitsu non-576 settings works fine via DVI, Cable box no workie on any dvi setting.

I'm gonna try some more extensive tests a little later as I'm not sure if I tried all the cable box resolutions (like 1080i for example).

Fleaman

I haven't checked the H31 stats but maybe NTSC models aren't optimized for PAL 576 re the momitsu.

Forget that, stats say 576iPAL 576P-PAL

Forget that, stats say 576iPAL 576P-PAL

I know....but remember, I get the exact same problem with the cable box dvi which is all ntsc, 480p, 720p, etc.

:confused:

But: DVI is fine on the Momitsu @480p, 720p, custom resolutions, etc.... (but no 576 settings).

:confused: :confused:

Fleaman

Tom, Thanks for the Colorfacts update. I'll try the PC settings tonight. How do you account for the large variance in RGB adjustments between this Colorfacts calibration and the last one that you posted back in April. Both were over DVI and your previous adjustments were R contrast(-13) and B contrast (-13). This time it looks like RGB contrast were all increased in the service menu, that's a pretty big swing. Thanks again for all your time that it takes to run these numbers.

Moe

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5484697&highlight=colorfacts#post5484697

Jason,
Dude, I'm sorry about your car. Yes, people can sometimes be turds. I was pretty upset that my sister's house got broken into and robbed for the second time while she was at work. They took a lot of jewelry. This time, she's moving out. The house is already on the market. I hope you can find some way to maintain your sanity through all this. Hang in there!!

Fleaman,
I've gotten some funny colored screens on the H31, probably due to the dryness of the interior air in my home. I think that a mild static shock must have hit a circuit board. Powering down the pj and back up again fixed it sometimes. Other times, I had to hit the main power switch on the back, and unplug the pj for a while, then fire it back up. Have you tried those things? I've even seen a bit of a spark when connectors make contact during switching while the pj is on. I'll bet the blue picture looks soft and out of focus because of the short wavelength of the color blue. It focuses slightly in front of the retina, I believe. I remember talk of this from science classes. This is why BluBlocker sunglasses sharpen your vision for driving or whatever.

mystery, or shall I say Mr. E,
Wow, you have a computer that talks back to you? Man, that thing has some serious attitude. I'd so tell it to get a life. Funny. Seriuosly, I think I may have solved one of the quirks of my 318. I was getting strange graphics and/or static screens when turning the unit on, but this was with the dvi connected to the H31. I figured out that if I fire up the 318 with the dvi unplugged, let it play a bit, then plug it in, I get a good picture every time. Tom just posted about the handshake procedure, stating that the pj goes on, then your source. I think in the case of the 318, the handshake isn't happening properly at the start because maybe the hdcp flags and stuff aren't loaded, or maybe they aren't loading fast enough. It's not a perfect fix, but it's working. However, it still doesn't solve the dotted lines at the top when I use 1080i. Edge masking does the trick, but I'm losing a slight amount of picture info off the sides as well. Probably not enough to matter, but I know it's gone.

Man, I am learning to appreciate the 1080i output of the 318. I was watching 720p, but 1080i is looking better to me now. It's almost like watching hd. Super sharp, and quite rich. I'm really noticing the texture of things. My Matrix dvd was popping last night.

I know that you are repositioning your pj and zooming a bit to solve your pixel crop problem with the LG player. Have you considered using the horizontal controls to fill out the screen? It probably won't be enough of a change for you to notice shape distortions, and you can do it from the remote. No more pj shifting back and forth. What do you think?

BTW, did you find out the specifics of the computer that Optoma Canada used when they reported no tearing issues? Videocard, settings, type of dvi cable, length, operating system, drivers, etc.? I've got a funny feeling that maybe they didn't really try it out like they said. I hope I'm wrong.

Tom,
Thanks for the numbers. I'll check 'em out. I would also love the analog component numbers as well. Very helpful. A buddy of mine may be upset that he's not getting a $400 calibration fee from me.

jedi,

Love the Mr. E. 'title'! 'Bout time I got some respect around here! :D :D

Good to hear that you've found a fix (albeit imperfect) for your start up problems with the 318. Strange the gymnastics and histrionics moves we have to make just to get something to perform the way it should. :(

Yeah, 1080i on the LG/Zenith is fantastic. I liked it better than the Panny S97 which I demoed for a week or so. I find the Edge Masking to be a comfortable compromise for the dotted line issue. I don't notice missed information but now that you've mentioned it I'll probably go looking for it. :rolleyes: Oh well, such is the life of the anal tweaker eh?

Thanks for the reminder about the horizontal shift feature. When I get my H31 back, (if I ever do :) ) I'll try that. For now the H57 loaner is performing flawlessly without any syncing issue like the H31 with HTPC.

Unfortunately Optoma Canada hasn't divulged any of the particulars about their HTPC setup with my H31. It is a little strange that it would be working on their computer and not on mine. I hope you're wrong about them but you never know... We HTPC users can't be doing anything wrong here. Jason has his working with his SP4805 but can't get the H31 to operate. I've done nothing different here with the H57 and my HTPC but it works, yet the H31 only worked for a short time then waved 'bye bye'.

Sometimes I kind of miss my X1 but picture wise it can't hold a candle to either of these Optoma projectors. But life was simpler when I had the Infocus projector.

Wayne

Here's some colorfacts numbers for analog 480i/480p

480i Film gamma 2, yes that's right Film needs to be used for analog, PC wouldn't work it would crush out the whites, PC works for DVI though.

Service Picture RGB's
Gain red 165
Gain Gr 159
Gain Bl 155

Bias Red 128
Bias Gr 125
Bias Bl 129

480p component/analog, Film, gamma 2
Service menu

First ADC
Red Gain 170
Gr Gain 167
Bl Gain 169

Red offset 72
Gr offset 59
Bl offset 62

Picture service area,
Gain Red 122
Gain Gr 124
Gain Bl 125

Bias Red 124
Bias Gr 126
Bias Bl 124

If you try any of these pls write down your original numbers.

480i/480p numbers done with Denon 1600/RP82/Xp50, same deal. Any decent analog player that has normal blacks may work for these numbers, and maybe not. So save your old numbers incase you want to go back.

Are the service menu number changed per input? Or is that going to change the service numbers on all inputs?

Nothing will change, you get different service numbers with some different signals. Write down the old ones just incase you like the factory tunup.

With analog component,
480i and 480p will show different numbers on your projector. ADC is only un-whited out with progressive analog. Match both my ADC and Picture changes.

Hey anybody that trys it and thinks it worked for them lmk?

I haven't done the service menu changes, but I did re-calibrate the whole system yesterday. Audio and Video. I'm getting more comfortable with the interface and don't feel so lost in it. I am slowly maxing the PQ every time I calibrate by experimenting with the image/modes and gamma settings. There are so many possibilties, all this control is nice. I've only had it 3 days, and know there is more untapped potential when I get the time to pull it out.

BTW GM, you were right about the 20 settings on the gamma. 5 per each mode. My bad.

If anyone really wants to push blacks on their PJ, I purchased "Appleseed" yesterday. I reccommend a look. If you liked Final Fantasy the movie, you will like it also. Very CG but with some anime action and story. However, it does feel like a full movie and not a cartoon. 108 minutes. I reccommend it as a rental. :rolleyes:

Just FYI...anyone wanting to buy an aftermarket power cord (ie. longer). I just bought a 15' cord from a forum sponsor and it does not fit. The H31 uses an IEC socket but the housing around the socket is too close to fit some of the aftermarket plugs. So keep that in mind when searching for a longer cord.

Matt

Grab a razor and shave off some of the extra plasic. Make it fit.

Grab a razor and shave off some of the extra plasic. Make it fit.


worked for me!

RedDog']Grab a razor and shave off some of the extra plasic. Make it fit.


Or a Skill Saw..... :D

Yes, I bought the 15 foot cord straight from Optoma Canada for $20.00 plus shipping. The one that comes with the H31 is too short, at least for me. The new one fits and works perfectly and is well worth getting I think.

Wayne

So I was trying to calibrate my xbox today and what is up with the contrast on component. Moving the contrast level up makes the picture darker?, I think I read this before but wasn't sure. Xbox looks awesome on the H31 I can't wait for Xbox360!!!

Just FYI...anyone wanting to buy an aftermarket power cord (ie. longer). I just bought a 15' cord from a forum sponsor and it does not fit. The H31 uses an IEC socket but the housing around the socket is too close to fit some of the aftermarket plugs. So keep that in mind when searching for a longer cord.

Matt

They can buy the cable from Optoma, they sell longer power cords.

I'm connecting a high quality power cord to a heavy duty extension cord(actually, a couple). Does this defeat the purpose of using a nice cord? I might have to look into getting a longer version of the one I have. It's made by Transparent Cables. OTOH, it would be too expensive to get one to run the 25 or 30 feet to my dedicated power outlet.

Just a note to furture dvi cord buyers who are new at this. You may have read here that one can use either a dvi-i cable or a dvi-d with the H31 for digital signals. While this is true, I must point out that you have to consider what kind of connector is on the back of your source component(s). Both of my dvd players with dvi have dvi-d jacks, and you can't plug a dvi-i cable into a dvi-d connector. However, you can plug a dvi-d cable into a dvi-i jack. Other stbs I have offer either dvi-i or dvi-d. Just be careful about this.

Has anyone tried to run one longer dvi-i male to female cable to the H31? That way, you could connect a shorter male to male dvi-d cable to the female end of the dvi-i cord for digital signals, or short male to male dvi-i cables if you want to run analog signals. I'm thinking about doing this later on this summer when I get back from teaching in Michigan. Right now I have to unplug my one dvi cable and connect it to whatever I want to watch, while it would be so much faster to have the shorter runs already plugged into dvi ports on the backs of my devices, and work with the short male to longer dvi-i female connection only. It also solves the problem of not being able to run any analog dvi signals to the H31, as this is what you would be stuck with when using a dvi-d only cord(like me). Just thinking out loud.

Lenny,
There you are. Was it you who posted about what kind of quality one would get over the tiny analog wires of a dvi-i cable? At first I posted that I'd tried it and it worked well, but then corrected myself to say that I was only running vga from something into a dvi adapter. Well, I thought about it some more, and realized that the dvi end of the adapter was indeed a dvi-i connection, so the analog signal was going through some tiny wires, and it came out looking great!! I didn't get any tearing since the vga signal was in component form. But it's still true that I don't have a dvi-i cable at all.

Yea, I am soooo beyond Noob when it comes to hooking up my HTPC. I have the VGA cable connected to the DVI-(I) Adapter. I installed powerstip...trying to use it, can't figure it out. I don't know what I'm doing wrong but it is definetly user error...hence I'm lost.

I'm connecting a high quality power cord to a heavy duty extension cord(actually, a couple). Does this defeat the purpose of using a nice cord? I might have to look into getting a longer version of the one I have. It's made by Transparent Cables. OTOH, it would be too expensive to get one to run the 25 or 30 feet to my dedicated power outlet.

.

Warning: My Opinion to follow...

I'm one of those who think Hi-end AC cables are a bunch of snake oil. Every one that uses them has to plug them into a wall outlet, and behind that outlet there is maybe 30 to hundreds of feet of cheap 5 cent a foot AC wire.

So for me, connecting a hi-end cord to an extension cord won't make any difference at all. The hi-end cord will work just as well as the extension cord and the wire behind your walls.

Fleaman

Here is the only known blind ABX testing of hi-end AC cords:

Secrets of HT and Hi-Fi (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-article-blind-test-power-cords-12-2004.html)

Fleaman

Warning: My Opinion to follow...

I'm one of those who think Hi-end AC cables are a bunch of snake oil. Every one that uses them has to plug them into a wall outlet, and behind that outlet there is maybe 30 to hundreds of feet of cheap 5 cent a foot AC wire.

So for me, connecting a hi-end cord to an extension cord won't make any difference at all. The hi-end cord will work just as well as the extension cord and the wire behind your walls.

Fleaman

Amen brother. I sell electrical equipment including wire and there is no way I would pay somebody $200 for 15' of drop cord in pretty packaging.

They can buy the cable from Optoma, they sell longer power cords.


*Edit* - Nevermind, found another source :)

Happen to have a part number because according to the person I spoke to at Optoma USA, they only sell the 6' length. Thanks.

Matt

Regarding pwr cables for the H31: I bought a different one from Fry's 'cos the Optoma one comes straight out the side and all my cables are feed towards the back of the unit. The H30's AC cord was 90* right angled towards the rear of the unit, which worked great for me. The H31 has a different plug and I had to buy a right angled cord at the store to get it angled back. It was just your typical IEC computer cord and worked and fit fine.

Fleaman

Well jedi's cable arrived today and since I was home anyway dealing with the car issues I hooked it up and guess what ... Nada :( . The DVI cable is a 3m so 9'+ (not the 6' that he thought it was , not his fault as it looks brand new and like it had never been used - still coiled up like they do from the factory) .

So I am still unable to test anything in the digital domain on the H31 :( (other than from my HD cable box , which works fine) .

-- The H31 PC-DVI-D issue is looking less like a cable problem at this point in time . From the varried results that people have posted I would have to guess again that there is fault inside the unit with the DVI interface regarding PC connections . Optoma at this point should be stating that the H31 might not work properly with PC connections over DVI IMO (vs. stating that the H31 does indeed work with PC's via a digital DVI connection) . It seems like a crap-shoot at this point if you get a properly functioning DVI interface and most people are not having positive results .

--- I am not giving up yet but I am bothered that I cannot even get the PC to see the H31 is there , let alone do any resolution testing .

------- Best Wishes All ,
------------- Jason

Seems like we all need to get a mass letter out to Optoma and sign it.

Don't forget that I've had two H31s that did see the digital signal for several days then all of a sudden lost it. I don't recall anyone else on the forum claiming to have experienced this.

I think that you're right Jason and unless they do a recall ( :rolleyes: ) or issue a firmware update or something to that effect, I guess you either get an H31 that works with HTPC or it doesn't or in my case it does and then it
doesn't. :confused:

Wayne

Posted in the other forum but here is my room in progress, new paint, not trim or base board. Please excuse the mess. I'm going to paint the door to kind of match the wood stain...so it is white until I can get the stained wood up.

http://www.picturetrail.com/lennytellone

The door should look good when it's done. We elected to paint the door black as well as the wall and bulkhead. It turned out that we were actually shocked at how good the door looked painted black. We left the other side of it white which shows when the door is open and the projector isn't on. Matching your door with the trim should work well also. Good job Lenny!

Wayne

Really, I wasn't sure how the door would look flat balck, I need to look at your pics again and show the Wife....now what page was that on.

I just found the photos on the bottom of page 74 and the top of page 75. You should be able to get a fairly good look at the door in one of them.

Wayne

Lenny,

Looks great! I must ask, are those solid or hollow core doors, and if hollow, what effect do you think it will have acoustically, as far a sound bouncing around?

umm, guys... can we get back on topic, please?

Everyone is entitled to his opinion about what actually does or doesn't improve the performance of his equipment(electrical, that is). I decided not to go with the standard home wiring, with thinner copper cores for electrical. I had a dedicated line put in, which is drawn right off the main tap as it enters my home. We went with a nice thick copper core and it doesn't share the tap with any other line. This runs all the way to the dedicated outlet, and on through my power cables to the components. I will admit that it had the biggest effect on audio gear, but there are some improvements with video as well. I haven't spent thousands on power cables, but I've spent enough to see and hear results that satisfy me. So, in my case, I'm not exactly connecting a better power cable to the crappy existing wires in my house. Enough said.

Sorry about making yet one more mistake concerning the dvi cable I sent Jason. As he stated, I've never even uncoiled the one I sent, but it was right next to one I have used, and they both looked to be about the same general length. It's interesting that a company would provide such a long length in a dvi cable along with whatever source component it came with. Six feet is pretty standard, right? I've offered to send Jason the 6 footer as well, but I kinda doubt that it would work in this case.

Lenny,
Just to be sure, I wanted to say I'm sorry if it seemed that I implied that you were a noob concerning dvi conections. I certain don't thnk so. The info I provided was just to help true noobs if they are a bit confused.

Wow, I hope that we can get Optoma to admit that something is wrong with the H31's dvi pc interface.

jedi,

When you're in Michigan teaching this summer, if you get a chance, pop over to Ontario and pay me a visit. I'm only a two hour drive from Detroit.

Of course we'd have to make sure you aren't a terrorist when you cross the border. :D And with a name like jedi, well, you may need to undergo a little extra scrutiny. :) Just mention my code name (Mr. E ;) ) and all will be fine. ;)

Seriously though, if you can spare a Saturday for travel back and forth and some time at the 'Mystery Theater' I'd be glad to have you.

Wayne

I have been watching this thread more closely as of late.

I had decided upon purchasing the H31 over the 4805, but now I am back on the fence. If DVI from a PC doesn't work, then I think I will be going with the 4805.

Hopefully we will get word from Optoma soon on this issue.

I just wanted to thank everyone who is putting in so much effort to try to resolve/verify this problem.

Cheers!

case,

You are very wise to hedge your bets like this. Until Optoma officially responds to this issue we are all very much left up to our own devices and up the creek without a paddle. Although they are taking positive steps in Canada and the U.S., much more needs to be done to resolve this problem. Some H31s work with HTPCs and others simply do not. It's a question as to whether or not now armed with this information you would want to take that risk. I would advise against it for now. If you are strictly going to use a DVD player I would whole-heartedly recommend getting the H31 as it throws a phenomenal image from my LG7832 upconverted to 1080i. Just to let you know, I am one of the fortunate ones who has seen what the H31 can do with an HTPC and a DVI signal and it's wonderful when it cooperates. Hence the bitter irony.

Be careful with the 4805. It has issues as well. Apparently the new firmware has introduced a flicker to the image and the older firmware has other issues so there's no free lunch either way. As far as I know Infocus hasn't responded with a firmware fix to their latest firmware update yet.

Good luck whatever you decide to do. You may want to hold off and investigate the new H27 coming out. Specs very similar to the H31 yet a little cheaper and using Texas Instruments chipset which should be PC friendly.

Wayne

Thanks Mystery,

I will keep my options open, and 'stay tuned'.

It is hard to hold off on the purchase especially since my basement reno will be done this week, but it looks like it is probably the smart thing to do for a little while at least.

Wayne..............

As far as I can tell none of you with HTPC's are using Microsoft's Media Center PC software.

I am curious if the "timing" from Media Center would be different and more "DVD Like" as it seems that DVD players are not having any difficulty getting there signals out over DVI.

Darin.......... does your HTPC use Media Center?? and if not does someone on this board have a copy of Windows Media Center (mine is locked to a specific Gateway BIOS) that Darin could try?

Maybe nothing.......... but was just a thought

Here here , the H31 does throw an excellent image and were it not for the PC DVI issues it would be an excellent purchase for anyone . However if you wish to use an HTPC then it certainly is not the PJ to consider at this price point . While the 4805 has quirks of its own it most certainly does work with PC DVI-D connections and has almost zero issues in that regard . The 4805 firmware flicker is easy to avoid by just using the original release firmware which really only has one major issue in that it requires a push of the Auto Image button on the remote when it has lost sync while switching between certain SD and HD resolutions (which is mainly found when using HD cable boxes that have the auto-scale feature set turned off - meaning the box can send whatever resolution the actual signal is transmitted in) . There are a couple other smaller 4805 firmware bugs that do not effect most people .

After some viewing with the H31 via DVI-D on my HD cable box I can honestly say it is an impressive PJ , throws an excellent image after calibration . I watched the NBA Eastern Finals (game 7) replays on ESPN-HD and it looked great . I also watched some HD movie material from 'Hellboy' , 'Van Helsing' and 'Finding Nemo' . I do have to say however that the H31 does not have as tight of a focus as the 4805 (4805 just has better optics) . This however is probably considered a feature for most people as it makes SDE less bothersome when the PJ is at its sharpest focus point (the 4805 can get insanely sharp which makes the SDE more evident) . As for CR/Black Level the H31 is good but cannot compete Out of the Box with my ISF'd 4805 , after ISF on the H31 I would expect it to compete very well with the 4805 regarding black level and CR (maybe even beat it slightly) .

All in all I am impressed with the H31 and give it high marks in almost all categorys (other than the obvious PC DVI-D issue) .


;) ------------ Jason

Wayne..............

As far as I can tell none of you with HTPC's are using Microsoft's Media Center PC software.

I am curious if the "timing" from Media Center would be different and more "DVD Like" as it seems that DVD players are not having any difficulty getting there signals out over DVI.

Darin.......... does your HTPC use Media Center?? and if not does someone on this board have a copy of Windows Media Center (mine is locked to a specific Gateway BIOS) that Darin could try?

Maybe nothing.......... but was just a thought


This will make no difference if the PC will not even show that the H31 is connected via DVI-D (as is my finding so far) . Heck my HTPC is even sending Video (sRGB) levels over the DVI port (just as MCE does) and it makes no difference .


------------ Jason

Here here , the H31 does throw an excellent image and were it not for the PC DVI issues it would be an excellent purchase for anyone . However if you wish to use an HTPC then it certainly is not the PJ to consider at this price point .
All in all I am impressed with the H31 and give it high marks in almost all categorys (other than the obvious PC DVI-D issue) .


;) ------------ Jason

I must confirm Jason's observations, though he has a 4805 for comparison and I don't. It too gets high marks from me.

The HTPC issue has NOT been a problem for me, however. I have only tried it with one HTPC thus far and it works. Seems to me a QC issue as some of the units do and some don't and some have annoying issues. I'm just lucky...I guess(so far).

Out of the box, the image is a mess. Calibration is a must. (all this makes me wonder just how good the H79 is) DarinP knew all along, didn't he?

This will make no difference if the PC will not even show that the H31 is connected via DVI-D (as is my finding so far) . Heck my HTPC is even sending Video (sRGB) levels over the DVI port (just as MCE does) and it makes no difference .


------------ Jason

Oh well....... that's what you get for thinking......

Out of the box, the image is a mess. Calibration is a must. (all this makes me wonder just how good the H79 is) DarinP knew all along, didn't he?

My H31 OTB brightness and contrast settings were a mess...very washed out. Once those were adjusted (using the simple THX setup in the Incredibles disc), everything else seemed to fall in line. I haven't pulled out my Avia or DVE discs yet, due to the time required to follow through, but everything seems pretty balanced, once the Bright/contrast was adjusted.

Fleaman

Keep it hostage until they figure out the DVI HTPC problem...your on the better side of the deal. :)

I agree.

Besides, isn't that H57 a little buzzer?

Man, after going through 3 H30's that buzzed, the H31 whisper quite operation is heaven.

If you can hold out long enough, maybe you'll be offered what ever the H31 replacement is gonna be....

BTW: This is an easy way out for Optoma as they wouldn't really have to fix the problem with the H31, they would be just paying you off in a sense....because actually you would be paying Them off!

Fleaman

Mike,

The problem is that this H57 is obviously a demo or refurbished. I noticed that the leveling feet on the bottom of it were dirty which indicated to me that it had been used. Yet the bulb showed 0 hours when it arrived. Can they just reset a bulb to 0 to try to make it look brand new or would this bulb have been a new one? Is there anyway of knowing? I could ask Optoma but there's no way to tell if their answer will be truthful about this is there?

Wayne

Yes, it's possible because it happened to one of my H30 units. They replaced the motherboard and reset the lamp hrs (apparently unavoidable) even though my lamp was not changed. At the time there was about 150hrs on the lamp when reset back to zero.

The last time I sent my H30 in for the 'buzzing' problem, they were replacing it with a whole new H30 unit (maybe refurbished, I don't know). They weren't clear on whether they would take my old lamp out of my return H30 and put it into the newer H30 or whether I would get a new lamp with the exchange. I didn't really care since I had such low hrs on the lamp anyway. But, for my own information I put a little scratched 'X' into the plastic lamp housing before I sent my H30 in. The H30 they sent back didn't have my old lamp in it, no 'X' scratch marks were there.

Fleaman

Wayne....... for $xxx it does sound like a no brainer at first blush...

Is there an H57 thread here at AVS? Maybe those guys no how many of these units "buzz." If it is not a huge number then just have Optoma Canada swap you out for another H57 without the buzzing problem... Perhaps if you asked nicely (as you seem to have an excellent relationship with them), they could actually take an H57 out of the box and try it for the buzz problem before shipping it out to you. If they would do that I would jump all over it!

Of course YMMV/IMHO all disclaimers apply!!!

<<<Quote deleted by request>>>>>

!!!

You could say that again....or maybe I will :D

I went through 3 H30's trying to get a non-buzzer, every time Optoma claiming they couldn't reproduce the buzz in their facility. This despite the fact that the H30's that buzzed on me had buzzed in my bosses house...who also happens to own one of the 1st H30's and it Doesn't Buzz.

Honestly though, while I haven't really followed the H57 thread, I don't remember hearing that they had a buzzing problem, I thought it was a specialty of the H30's only.

Fleaman

Well once again I went to watch a DVD and my settings reset, only the advanced adjustments reset?? Brightness and contrast stayed as set, but colors went all back to 0? Anyone...anyone?

Thank you everyone for your input in recent posts. I have been asked by Optoma Canada for obvious reasons to not divulge the particulars about the deal which they've offered me.. I will respect that and do not wish to jeopardize what they've offered to me in any way nor do I wish to cause them any trouble as I've had nothing but good dealings with them from the start. As a result I have deleted all of my recent posts which mentioned anything about this deal.

I would ask as a favor that any of you who've responded to my recent posts regarding this offer, in some cases putting my words in quotes, that you would delete your posts so as to honor this commitment that I have made to the company.

I'm sorry for any inconvenience this might cause any of you and thank you in advance for understanding.

Wayne

Thank you everyone for your input in recent posts. I have been asked by Optoma Canada for obvious reasons to not divulge the particulars about the deal which they've offered me.. I will respect that and do not wish to jeopardize what they've offered to me in any way nor do I wish to cause them any trouble as I've had nothing but good dealings with them from the start. As a result I have deleted all of my recent posts which mentioned anything about this deal.

I would ask as a favor that any of you who've responded to my recent posts regarding this offer, in some cases putting my words in quotes, that you would delete your posts so as to honor this commitment that I have made to the company.

I'm sorry for any inconvenience this might cause any of you and thank you in advance for understanding.

Wayne

No more hostage... ;)

Thanks a lot Lenny!

Only a few more to go now. :)

Wayne

I changed mine........... but cannot change fleaman's quote............

Thanks Steve!

And thank you as well Jason! I noticed that you quietly deleted your post. I think also mjolson did the same. Great!

Only fleaman left to go. Please?

Thanks again everyone. I owe you one. :)

Wayne

By the way, the Director of Optoma Canada indicated that the new H27 has an inferior scaler and de-interlacer to that of the H31. He said the H31 uses a PixelWork chipset that is a 'superior, more costly chipset' than that of the H27. So anyone considering one against the other ought to know that apparently the H31 is the better projector of the two at least concerning scaling/de-interlacing.

I'm just passing along this info FYI.

Wayne

Well once again I went to watch a DVD and my settings reset, only the advanced adjustments reset?? Brightness and contrast stayed as set, but colors went all back to 0? Anyone...anyone?

Has this happened to anyone else?

I don't remember it happening to me Lenny. Had you done anything unusual prior to that?

Wayne

Nope, this is the second time in about 5 weeks. The only good thing is my recal looks better than my first. Mr. E, what are your brightness and contrast (about) settings on the High Power screen just for curiosity.

I leave mine unplugged for weeks at a time. Everytime I fire it back up all my settings are remembered and there's allot of them.

I leave mine unplugged for weeks at a time. Everytime I fire it back up all my settings are remembered and there's allot of them.

Guess I need to get on the horn to Optoma...some how the memory is getting whipped out, but just in that advanced adjustment setting...doesn't make sense.

Hey, it looks like this Mr. E thing is catching on. Pretty cool, huh Wayne? Gosh, I would love it if the camp gave me more time off to visit friends. We only have one day when not much is going on, and Interlochen is located quite close to the upper peninsula(Grand Traverse area). There's a cutie I've known for years who lives in Toronto and wants me to visit her, but it's too long of a drive to get there, visit, get back, and rest up for the next week of work. Thanks for the offer, Wayne.

I made a dumb post earlier about solving what might be a static charge problem with the H31 by hitting the power switch on the back, and unplugging the unit for awhile. Duh, the unit has no power switch there. My bad.

So am I the only one thinking of replacing my dvi-d cable with a dvi-i version? Man, I really hope that Optoma admits to the problem and just provides a firmware update or something that will work for pc dvi. This is a great machine, and deserves the best digital dvi signals.

I am not Mr E but I use the high power screen and love it. The settings I often use are..

Service menu
GR 139
GG 130
GB 131
BR 126
BG 120
BB 117

Advance menu
R -15
G -5
B 5
R-17
G-7
B-2


Contrast 7
Brightness -4
Color 31
Sharpness 28
Gama 3

VIDEO mode and then sometimes GRAPHICS mode

Jedi,

I have a 35' DVI-I cable which works just fine for VGA but I get nothing when I try DVI-D. Mine is one of those H31s where DVI-D via PC has never worked. I sent an email to Optoma USA yesterday but they haven't responded yet. So for now I have a Zenith DVB318 DVD player on order which I will use to upconvert via component.

Matt

Lenny,

That's a new one. :( What a pain to lose your settings. For now make sure you mark them down somewhere so you can reset them to where they should be.
I'll fire up the magic picture maker (projector) and let you know my settings. I think I have them at 61 for both contrast and brightness. It takes a lot to AVIA calibrate with a high power screen. Also, don't forget I'm working with a LIGHT CANNON here in the H57. 1100 lumens!

jedi,

No problem. It would have been a hoot to meet you in person. You'll be a long way up north there so I completely understand. Yeah, the Mr. E thing is great. You're the man!
I was wondering about the switch on the back comment. :D I thought I was missing out on something and was too proud to admit that I hadn't discovered it too. :)

Matt,

You are going to love the combination of the Zenith DB318 and the H31. I have determined that I'm getting an image at approximately 85 to 90% of that of an HTPC. There's not a huge difference to me between a tweaked HTPC and the LG7832/Zenith DB318. You should be able to use the DVI output of the new player to your H31 unless it's one of the players that locks up and freezes over DVI. Mine is one of those but I upconvert over component and the image is quite breathtaking. Sorry to hear about your DVI/HTPC problems. I at least got my H31 to work for a little while before it went on strike.

Wayne

Well at least that is three of us for sure who have never gotten an image over DVI from htpc while pressing the DVI-D button on the H31.

Matt, Jason & I have units that will not and have not produced digital signal from htpc to the H31.

There have to be more of us, but I am sure most people don't connect up DVI from their PC to the H31. Out of the set that does try it there are some confirmed cases of:
1. people who did it and it works (Arty),
2. people who get it to work at first and then it flakes out (Mr. E.)
3. and those of us who have never gotten it to work DVI-D at all.

The trouble is that we are a small handful of customers, I can't see Optoma bending over backwards for us.

So, what is left to do? What if any are our options?

I just picked up a Panasonic S77 to go with my H31. Very nice image, 480p over component (no dvi cable yet). I was really looking forward to the Panny's zoom feature, but it's just awful - very blurry. The digital zoom on the H31 is far better (I know I shouldn't be zooming 2.35:1 movies, but WAF demands it). Otherwise it's a nice player - can't wait to try HDMI->DVI.

I don't miss my HTPC yet!

-Mike

Hey Guys,

I purchased the Optoma H31 this week and should be getting it in Monday. I've been reading through the posts and read alot of the last 10 pages or so about the htpc issues. I was just wondering if anyone has attempted to set this pj up with a htpc running linux. My pvr and desktop are linux, and I'm hoping that maybe I'll have more luck with it than with the issues everyone has mentioned here. The only reason I say this is because I believe I can just set customize all my sync and refresh settings and the computer will just send the signal out like the DVDs players do without having to recognize the PJ (currently thats how my LCD monitor on my desktop works).

Of course I could be completly wrong about this and may run into the exact same problems. Figured I'd throw this out there and see if anyone else has tried out this setup. I'll let you guys know if it works (or doesn't work) next week.

Justin

Justin,

That's a great idea and I'm sure we'd all like to hear your report.

Unfortunately I find two reasons to not be hopeful. One is that if you are successful, it's probably unlikely that everyone having problems will change over to linux to get the H31 to work.

The other problem I see is that unless you test drive your new H31 on a non-linux based system first and disccover that it doesn't work at all over DVI as many have found, then you'll never know whether your tinkering around in linux was the reason for your success. It may be that you just were lucky enough to acquire an H31 that happens to work with HTPCs.

So, if you do happen to access a computer that's non-linux and test the H31. If it works, your subsequent testing on the linux computer won't tell us much.

This is the only way that I can see that this will be productive. Test the H31 out first non-linux and hopefully it fails. :) Then work with it on linux and hopefully it works. Then people can decide whether to make the switch.

I think you're on to something here. You could also reverse this procedure and try your theory out first on the linux and then go to a non-linux computer and see if it works.

Good luck. It sounds promising! :)

Wayne

fleaman,

Thanks much for deleting the quote. :)

Lenny,

I was right about my contrast and brightness over DVI. It's 61 in both cases using the projectors' 'economy' lamp mode and the High Power screen. Using AVIA, I had to go that high with both otherwise the bars would disappear. My numbers over component interestingly enough are much lower for some reason.

Wayne

The trouble is that we are a small handful of customers, I can't see Optoma bending over backwards for us.



that is not necessarily true

there are MANY people who are steering clear of the Optoma H31 because of these two serious issues

a more accruate statement would be, we will continue to be a small handful of customers because anybody wanting to use a HTPC with their projector isn't going to buy an H31. i for one based on this experience and the lack of responsivnesss from Optoma will never buy another one of their projectors--EVER

Two issues...?

PC's not synching with the projector over DVI is a very serious problem....I agree...whats the other major problem?

Sorry to hear about the HTPC issues, but over component and DVI my picture looks great! Anyone contemplating the purchase of an H31 should realize that these issues only affect people using their computers as a signal source, and are not representitive of the majority of users. Unless you are planning on using an HTPC you should definitely place this PJ on your short list! My image over component DVD and DVI HDTV looks terrific!

Could it be the codecs?
The cable?
The operating system?

My HTPC setup is doing quite fine. I'm doing all kinds of testing and the results are very positive.
My cable is DVI-d (dual) vs single. On the package it's labled "M" for multimedia. Could this make a difference?
My OS is winXP Pro, not home edition. Could this be a factor?
My best codec is WMP9.
FWIW, my video card is an ATI 9800 pro on an AMD based CPU.

Best wishes. Hope this helps.

BillyMac, Even though I am not an HTPC user I do agree that it really sucks that the very people who could probably coax the ultimate performance out of this projector will not do so because of the documented problems with its pc compatibility. I hope that Optoma fixes this issue so that we can get some feedback from the respected HTPC guys on the forums.

Moe

Two issues...?

PC's not synching with the projector over DVI is a very serious problem....I agree...whats the other major problem?

tearing, tearing no matter what you do. what software player you use, what video card you use, what colorspace you use, what driver you use, what refresh rate you use. that's the whole reason why jason was sent an H31. to see if he could 1. sync digitally. 2. find a refresh that pixel maps and eliminates tearing.

848x480 is ideal. and it syncs over vga, but the tearing is aweful. to me, unbearable. when wayne had synced via dvi digitally the tearing was there too only sharper. :)

i just don't think they really care. and that's a shame. like someone else mentioned above. i think they're well into their next release.

Could it be the codecs?
The cable?
The operating system?

My HTPC setup is doing quite fine. I'm doing all kinds of testing and the results are very positive.
My cable is DVI-d (dual) vs single. On the package it's labled "M" for multimedia. Could this make a difference?
My OS is winXP Pro, not home edition. Could this be a factor?
My best codec is WMP9.
FWIW, my video card is an ATI 9800 pro on an AMD based CPU.

Best wishes. Hope this helps.

i'd love to hear a little more about your setup, but i have to tell you i'm very skeptical. first are you sure you're really syncing digitally and not analog? when you press dvi-d on the remote, do you still have a picture? when did you purchase your unit?

for the record, i tried an ati aiw 9800 pro and had the same issues.

optoma won't even answer my emails anymore.

Someone correct me here....if you wanted to surf the web or bust out a game of Half Life 2 at some ungodly screen size, you could still do it via a 15pin analog VGA cable right? so VGA out from the videocard to a VGA/DVI adapter, and that adapter into the H31's DVI port?

This is all about pixel mapping..being able to run the projector with a pure digital signal from a PC running at 840x480 (or whatever the correct setup would be)..??

That can't be done with a 15 pin as there's digital to analog conversion happening...but you can still go the 15 pin to adapter route right?

Someone correct me here....if you wanted to surf the web or bust out a game of Half Life 2 at some ungodly screen size, you could still do it via a 15pin analog VGA cable right? so VGA out from the videocard to a VGA/DVI adapter, and that adapter into the H31's DVI port?

This is all about pixel mapping..being able to run the projector with a pure digital signal from a PC running at 840x480 (or whatever the correct setup would be)..??

That can't be done with a 15 pin as there's digital to analog conversion happening...but you can still go the 15 pin to adapter route right?'

you can pixel map at 848x480 via a vga connection. the picture won't be as clear and sharp as a dvi digital connection though and you will get tearing. even in games like HL2. some have lessened the tearing by using a 62Hz refresh rate, or by using higher resolutions like 1280x720. for me, the latter is unaccetable. not only does it look bad imo, but the problem still exists. 62Hz does not solve the problem either and doesn't even work with some cards.

Billy..............

CMRA mentioned he was using a dual link DVI-D cable... in this case he "must" have a digital signal because the dvi-d cable will not pass an analog signal.........

The issues that Wayne and other HTPC folks are suffering are bringing up a "very" important subject as far as I am concerned... not the fact that there are some issues... as every product can and often do have "issues." The key factor here is Optoma's response and what level of interest/help/concern/engineering they are willing to apply to these issues. This is not the only Optoma product with issues and folks in other threads are waiting to see what Optoma's response to their problems are also.

For the majority of owners Tom will correctly tell us that these are not issues at all or even noticed for that matter, but to me what is key is the Optoma Company's response when their products do have problems... exactly how important is "Customer Service" to their mission statement. Rarely does anyone provide a product that is "perfect" what matters is what they do next! (IMHO of course!)

hiho, that's great, then cmra can consider himself incredibly lucky because he's the only person aside from arty13 that has done it with countless others who have not. i wonder if he's seeing tearing then at 848x480.

i don't know what makes optoma more happy, me keeping my mouth shut and letting hundreds of people buy the H31 only to discover the problems with PC's, or me replying to every single thread i see RE this subject and warning people. honestly, i almost think it's the latter based on what i've experienced with their support and customer service. it's not that they give bad information. it's that they don't even respond. when you copy the director of pro a/v for the u.s. on an email and all you get is a lame response from the manager of customer service, the same customer service who never bothered to respond to you in the first place, well then...that's pretty lame.

as far as people waiting for a response, well errr-- i wouldn't hold your breath

and i have to say, i'm sorry for being so negative. but i gotta' tell ya, i'm really disappointed. i just don't want anybody else to be as disappoint with this as me. for those of you who are satisfied with a stand-alone player, well then great for you. as far as i'm concerned, the PC is part of a home theater and if it doesn't work with a PC, well then, i wouldn't buy it.

My purchase of the Optoma H31 was driven by my desire for a digital projection of DVD material from my HTPC. I've spent a lot of time and money making my HTPC very powerful so that I could get a great picture output.

The Optoma H31 has never sync'd digitally with my HTPC although it should have done this natively out of the box.

The Optoma H31 I purchased does sync digitally with other sources, however the three PC's I have here with DVI output can not get it to sync digitally.

IMHO my Optoma H31 is defective in that it will not sync digitally with any HTPC source. I've only been able to try three PC's but I think that is a good indicator of the problem with the unit I purchased.

It would be great if we could all get a single point of contact at Optoma who would be our liaison and go to bat for us. If one person there knew about all of us who are becoming bitter out here it might make enough of a difference and get them to take this more seriously. I am sure that this thread itself is becoming enough of a PR problem that they should recognize it and step up to the plate and get this resolved.

I'm not a wealthy guy, I have a large family and had to sell a lot of my treasured stuff on ebay in order to soup up my HTPC and purchase a new Optoma H31 projector.

Had I known it would not work correctly with an HTPC I would have chosen differently.

It does not do the main thing I bought it for, sync digitally with my HTPC and project a great image. Even though I can connect with Analog (VGA) there are issues like tearing to deal with.

Right now my experience with Optoma is completely unsatisfactory. Their product is not doing what it should for me, and their customer support has been at such a low level it can not truly be considered customer service. It seems more designed to put off troubles until warranty expiration occurs.

I love the picture I get from my HDTV cable box over component, but to me that was a secondary use of the Optoma H31.

The Optoma H31 lack of performance with HTPC for me is a product killer.

I am using 800 x 600 @ 60hz and i get absolutly no tearing at all, im not saying to use this resolution because its a 4.3 aspect ratio. I just want people to try it and see if they get tearing. I know icant watch a movie with a line going down the screen so i had to settle for the 800x600 res and let my software do the rest. I wanted to know if you see the tearing jason at 848 x 480 on the pc. I have emailed optoma about this but they wont respond ever. I like others have also put alot of money into a htpc and just to find this out. I would hate to have to purchase a standalone player because it defeats the purpose of purshasing a projector for htpc.

Methinks marketing and engineering are not meshing at Optoma. Since my unit is newer (I think) than yours, Optoma may have addressed the issue in a later production run.
I've looked high and low for a prodution date...nada. Only a serial #.

Anyway, I'll try another digital cable when I get the chance and report my findings. I could also try another PC with a nVidia card and report those results too.

If both PCs work, then at least at first blush, I suspect the issue is being addressed by Optoma.

Wish me luck.

CMRA.. What's your serial number?

Another option for HTPC use would be a card like this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814270008) that includes component output. While not digital, it should be on par with the VGA output and sidestep the VGA tearing issue. Of course, I'm mainly thinking of movie jukeboxes and such. If you want the HTPC as a high-end gaming platform, the card might not cut it.

i tried component out of the 6600GT, but you can't do 848x480 with it, it only supports 480p, 720p, 1080i settings

it will allow some customization, but i don't know of anybody who's doing a custom 848x480 timing with component out of a video card

there's another member here who used a transcoder to switch the component out of a dvd stand-alone and ran it to the vga port of the projector. he had the exact same problems with tearing. what that basically tells you is that it has something to do with the dvi/vga port/processor on the unit itself. it can't handle a pc signal correctly period.

and no offense, i appreciate the suggestion, but that card being only 64MB and all defeats one of the primary purposes of using an htpc for video--processing a superior image. to do that, you need a little more meat on your bones.

"considering the 4805 or the H31? buy the 4805 -- ask me why"

Nice Sig.

I sent an email to service, marketing, sales & info @ Optoma.

I told them to come look at this thread and asked them take us seriously.
I restated the problems I am having and I quoted my post above.

I will let you know if I get any response.

and no offense, i appreciate the suggestion, but that card being only 64MB and all defeats one of the primary purposes of using an htpc for video--processing a superior image. to do that, you need a little more meat on your bones.For video you need a meaty CPU, not a meaty GPU. When displaying DVDs your video card is little more than a framebuffer.

you really need both

OK, I just spent the better part of my 2 hour lunch fussin' with this issue. Here's my discovery:

I get a occassional 'glitch' (tearing, I believe) right in the middle of my screen. It's rather random and infrequent. It is however much more apparent on film based material. On video (Shark Tale) I can watch for minutes before I see one. If I blink, I could miss it. (Remember, I'm looking for it) On "Chicago" it popped up every 20 to 40 seconds. Most of the time it was minor and was easily masked in the action.
Playing from the hard drive produced "0" glitches. I have a bunch of DivX-HD and WMVHD clips I use for testing and showing off the system. They are 720p and 1080p, respectively.
FWIW, my card scales at 768p and 1024p so I have no info to offer on 1:1 pixel mapping.

My suspicions: 1) the codecs, 2) 3:2 pull down 3) something awry in the hardware

Anyway, all is not perfect here either.

The good news: H31 sees my HTPC and is happy to accommodate with some minor tearing every once in a while. FWIW, the Power DVD 5.0 codec produced the most 'glitches' while the WMP9 produced the fewest.

Forget all this syncing and tearing stuff.

The really important issue of the day now I think is why CMRA gets a two hour lunch and the rest of us don't! :)

Now that's really something to get worked up about. :D

Seriously though CMRA, thanks for sacrificing most of your lunch time trouble shooting.

It appears that you are one of the fortunate ones. My two H31s were particularly nasty in that they'd show me the glorious digital image over DVI and then yank it away permanently. Nothing like that ever happened over VGA with my X1 and the H57 I'm now using hasn't failed once in this regard.

By the way guys, I've 'invented' a lens shifter for screens. In other words, if you need to move your projector and don't have lens shift on it, why not just move the screen instead. This method of mine is specifically configured for pull-down screens but those with 'permanent' set ups could put their screens on 'tracks' and then just slide the screen back and forth as needed. Anyone remember in our high school days and beyond, the blackboards that would slide from side to side in the room? This is the same principle that those with wall mounted screens could implement. But again, this is not what I did because my screen is of necessity a pull-down given that I have a 64" Pioneer CRT RPTV in the room.

I'll post some pictures of my 'screen shifter' by the weekend. It's not finished yet as far as paint goes but you'll get the idea. It works. Not fancy but it lines the screen up with the projector's lens. You have to do some measuring but just the ability to maneuver the screen from side to side is really cool. And the great part is, the projector doesn't move one iota.

So if anybody's interested I'll get those pictures up as soon as I can.

Wayne

The good news: H31 sees my HTPC and is happy to accommodate with some minor tearing every once in a while. FWIW, the Power DVD 5.0 codec produced the most 'glitches' while the WMP9 produced the fewest.
Actually, Windows Media Player doesn't include a decoder, so you're probably using the PowerDVD decoder in both cases. The difference may be due to a different rendering. There is overlay, VMR7, and VMR9, with VMR9 the least susceptible to tearing.

There's a Microsoft utility called DecCheck that will tell you which decoder is configured as the default for WMP or MCE, and whether or not it is "approved" for WMP10 and MCE. You can download it here:
Windows XP Video Decoder Checkup Utility (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=DE1491AC-0AB6-4990-943D-627E6ADE9FCB&displaylang=en)
Decoders do make a difference in tearing. The nVidia and DScaler decoders are considered to be very good at reducing or eliminating it.

I was surprised to notice the tearing on the H57 as well when using ZoomPlayer. I have eliminated it by reducing the resize drastically to either 1280 x 720 or 1024 x 768 and using less filters with ffdshow. I'm also trying out the new VMR9 renderless 4.5 ZoomPlayer program and ReClock too.

In addition I purchased TheaterTek and use it with VMR9 renderless and ffdshow with again very low resize settings and less filters. It would seem that the Optoma projectors may be sensitive to CPU draw. I have found that the more power I'm requiring in order to make these programs work the way I like, the more tearing and stuttering I'm getting on screen by the projector.

The nVIDIA and DScaler decoders are indeed excellent but don't seem to by themselves help much with either of these problems.

So, I have at least with this present projector, eliminated the tearing and stuttering by playing with the filters and their intensity levels.

I never had to do this kind of troubleshooting with the X1. There was either stuttering or there wasn't. Laying off the resize a bit always cured that problem with the Infocus. There was always a little bit of tearing with the X1 over VGA but it was hard to see because of the limited resolution and the fact that I wasn't using a DVI cable.

Before, when I had the two H31 units, I was making great headway in reducing the tearing by playing around with PowerStrip resolutions such as 1280 x 720 at 48 Hz. Then the projector stopped receiving a signal over DVI. And once the H31 either stops or fails to get a digital signal in the first place, I believe that there isn't anything that can be done to get it back or get it to work for the first time.
It either works, doesn't work or in my two experiences it works and then it stops working.

Wayne

Ok I just bought the H31 due to the price point, the quality of DLP, and the fact that my main application will be DVD's through a player via component. I should have it by Monday.

My one concern is the throw angle, I bought a 106" screen and am mounting the H31 about 15' away right above the seating area, I would like to mount the projector to the ceiling, which is about 7 1/2' high, it appears that I will either have to use the keystoning a small amount or mount it on a stand between the chairs to not use the keystone.

I really want it on the ceiling so it can be out of the way, but the 7.42 deg angle is pretty big. Either that or my screen will have to be mounted lower.

I am using the video storm CSW02 4 to 2 component dist. box and am feeding a 61" RPTV for cable and day to day stuff and plan on getting a fixed screen down the road, and removing the RPTV eventually.

I have an HTPC using ATI 9800Pro with Component adapter (so I can keep it in the Switching device) anyone have an idea how HTPC over component looks?

Does anyone here have theirs mounted on a low ceiling using keystoning and could give me an idea of what to watch out for, I know that I don't want to use keystoning at all but I think I will try it to see what it looks like.

Thanks in advance for your help and I appreciate all the info you have all supplied, you've done all the hard work for alot of us that can't devote the time that is involved to aquire the info you guys have given.

Thanks

I saw an almost identical set up to what yours is going to be. A fellow AVS member called 'Mak' showed me his H31 in March and I believe he was about 15 feet away and approximately 7.5 feet up showing on a screen at least 106 inches wide diagonally.

He did have to use a little keystone. I think it was about 4 clicks and we tried it with and without keystone and neither one of us could tell any difference. Even when we went beyond 4 clicks the image still looked like it had no keystone except for the size distortion.

I don't think that you're going to have any problem based on what you're telling us.

Wayne

Thanks Mystery, you put my mind at ease..I was sweating it a little, but now am very excited to get started.

Actually, Windows Media Player doesn't include a decoder, so you're probably using the PowerDVD decoder in both cases. The difference may be due to a different rendering. There is overlay, VMR7, and VMR9, with VMR9 the least susceptible to tearing.

.

Well, waddaya know. Learn something new everyday. And all this time I thought that icon in the program tray was real. Well, the overlay must be good for something.

I'm a long ways from expert on this subject, but I don't understand how a DLP display could contribute to tearing. I thought it was due to the CPU/GPU not being able to render rapidly changing frames fast enough.

I've been following these H31 threads closely because I had decided to buy one, but the PC DVI issues have me concerned.

Now if this thread can turn to a productive note. What is this I hear about 1080i over component on the DVB318?

I would like to hear more of that, as it concerns the H31 forte', component input.

The HTPC bug is beyond a users control(seemingly) and is more luck of the draw for those unfortunate enough to have it.

I still don't understand why one would go thru all the trouble of building an HTPC then try to mate it to an entry level 1K projector ( I do sypathize, but if it were me, I'de send it back to the manufacturer and get it fixed or a new one. Or cut your losses and get a 4805 for 9 Ben Franklins). The PC cost more than the PJ....but I digress.

If the DVB318 can boost even more performance from an already stellar picture then lets hear more of that. More squeezing of untapped potential packed in this little H31.



The H31 still beats the 4805, ask ME why. It's the projected image silly.

Steve,

If you ask billymac he'll tell you about his X1 and also his AE700 and on both he's never had tearing or at least not to the extent that he's seeing it on the H31. I probably know less than you about this stuff and it doesn't make sense to me either but it would seem that there's some sort of problem with the H31 resolving different resolutions and refresh rates. The very fact that some H31s aren't even registering a digital signal from a PC should allow us all to not be surprised that tearing may be an issue somewhat peculiar to this unit and perhaps other Optoma projectors. billymac has been using VGA and seeing tearing. It appears with even greater clarity over DVI.

Bummer! :mad:

Wayne

RBurnthorn -- Given your room....

If you were able to ceiling mount the H31... and the center of it's lens was 4.5" from the ceiling.

At 15' you would have an offset of 23.5" from the lens center to the top of your image + the 4.5" that the lens is down from the ceiling = a total TOI (top of Image) of 28" from your ceiling.

Given that you are planning on using a 106" diag screen (52" x 92") then the bottom of your screen with zero tilt would be 10" above the floor.

It is recommended that your screen be 2/3 above your eye level and 1/3 below your eye level...

Sit on your HT seating and have someone measure your eye height while in viewing position. (this may change if you are immersed in some heavy Halo action)

If your eye height is 38" then the screen should start 17" below your eye height or 21" off the floor.

So if zero tilt is 10" and the recommended screen puts the bottom at 21" you will in deed need a little tilt/keystone to make this work. Apparently however from Wayne (Mr. E)'s experience this should not be a problem.

Javdog,

The DVB318 is a good player especially when upconverting to 1080i over component but I would be willing to bet 6 bits that a good dvi player, like my Panasonic S97 would eat it for lunch. Try maybe a Toshiba 5980 in the same price range.

Moe

Stevo,

Nice 'cipherin'. :) Seems reasonable if not downright exact! :D

I used to struggle with this 1/3 business and when I got the High Power screen, I decided that in order to get the biggest bang or punch out of this screen I would have to hang the screen very low to the floor. I think it's about 14" off of the carpet or maybe even lower. And also, because the projector is low on the wall at 6 feet 4 inches, I'm sitting right in the viewing cone and making use of most of the gain. I estimate that I'm at around a 2 gain out of 2.8. It appears that my eye level is approximately at the mid-point of the screen and I could raise it to be at 1/3 but then I'd lose a little brightness so I guess it's a compromise that I'm willing to live with.

Did you ever get a second projector for your other residence?

javdog,

That Zenith DB318 will absolutely astound you upconverting over component. I have it's LG7832 counterpart and it sends a stunning image to the H31.

Zipplemeyer,

Your Panny S97 might suffer from a bit indigestion if it tries to eat the Zenith/LG player. :D

I compared both in my home and I eventually returned the S97 to the store. I found the upconversion to be soft and I actually preferred the S97 at 480p. So for me it seemed kind of silly to keep it if I wasn't going to use it at 720p or 1080i.

But it is a fine player and spits out a really nice image. I just didn't think that it was any better than the LG/Zenith and perhaps wasn't quite as good. But I'm a Minnesota Vikings fan so what do I know. :o

Wayne

So my image can get evevn better than it already is!?!

Ok, I'm on board. Now can I get some more feedback on what the picture actually does when up converted? I know I still only have the same resolution on my PJ, so is any sde effected as well?

Finger on the trigger, so I need input/ anecdotes of real world differences in 1080i. :D

I'm with you on the pulling of the trigger, I have invested alot into a Component switch that I would like to continue to use and being able to get a better DVD player using Component would be great.


The Toshiba in the same price range is HDMI, but doesn't the H31 come with a DVI to HDMI converter? Does it upconvert via Component?

I still don't understand why one would go thru all the trouble of building an HTPC then try to mate it to an entry level 1K projector ( I do sypathize, but if it were me, I'de send it back to the manufacturer and get it fixed or a new one. Or cut your losses and get a 4805 for 9 Ben Franklins). The PC cost more than the PJ....but I digress.

.

Actually...the only expensive part nowadays is the video card. Here's my outlay for an HTPC:

ATI 9800 Pro...$179(on sale)
2.8Ghz AMD CPU, fan and mobo...$89 (AC3 + LAN included)
Stick of 512mb DDR400 ram $39.00 after rebate
16x DVD/CD player with PowerDVD...$19.99(on sale)
Mouse, optical...$6.00(on sale)
Keyboard...$5 to $10
Case w/ 350w power supply...$24.99(on sale)
Harddrive...$59.00

Keep in mind you can get by with a much less expensive video card too.
Most items can be bought at Fry's on sale just about anytime.

So my image can get evevn better than it already is!?!

Ok, I'm on board. Now can I get some more feedback on what the picture actually does when up converted? I know I still only have the same resolution on my PJ, so is any sde effected as well?

Finger on the trigger, so I need input/ anecdotes of real world differences in 1080i. :D

This is going to be tough to swallow and fly in the face of many, but your 'sharpest' image will be at the native resolution, which on the H31 is 480p.
HOWEVER, you will enjoy a 'smoother' filmlike image at 720p. At 1080i the image gets too soft and takes on the image of an poorly converged CRT projector.

Now, I know some of you will challenge my observation. So, if you don't believe, ask the experts...like guitarman and thegamepimp.

Now if this thread can turn to a productive note. What is this I hear about 1080i over component on the DVB318?

I would like to hear more of that, as it concerns the H31 forte', component input.



I've got two of the original units. They are useless over 480i, I dont think very hot at 720p, but they are outstanding at 1080i. Current versions wont let you upconvert over component....so you have to buy an older one, or buy a newer one and downgrade the firmware, which I hear isn't a big deal. The unit will upconvert over DVI without modification.


The HTPC bug is beyond a users control(seemingly) and is more luck of the draw for those unfortunate enough to have it.

I still don't understand why one would go thru all the trouble of building an HTPC then try to mate it to an entry level 1K projector ( I do sypathize, but if it were me, I'de send it back to the manufacturer and get it fixed or a new one. Or cut your losses and get a 4805 for 9 Ben Franklins). The PC cost more than the PJ....but I digress.

If the DVB318 can boost even more performance from an already stellar picture then lets hear more of that. More squeezing of untapped potential packed in this little H31.


Supposedly upconverting the image to 1080i then letting the projector down-rez it to its native tongue might lend some benefit....or make the image softer or..well..who knows. I'm sure someone has tried by now.



The H31 still beats the 4805, ask ME why. It's the projected image silly.[/QUOTE]

Wayne..............

Nope, still have not got off the fence on the Utah home... I have been waiting to see what happens when I sell the Vegas house.... whether the buyers (whoever they are I wish they would get off the stick and get here) will want me to leave the HT setup intact or not...

Our new little house in Vegas is going to have ambient light issues so my 8700+ if it is not sold with the house will go to Utah and I will have to get something that will work better with ambient light rejection (won't have a dedicated room anymore in Vegas). However, if the 8700+ goes with the house then that opens up a couple of cans of worms for me... this is way off topic so if you are interested in more of my convoluted thoughts I will PM them to you...

But suffice it to say that as I am prone to "big" screens and have limited viewing depth I probably will have to go with a 720p unit in both places.

CMRA is correct in that generally upconverting at 1080i/720p to a SVGA or WVGA projector renders a smooth film-like yet less than sharp image. This is what I observed using the Toshiba and Panasonic players.

Yet for some reason, the Zenith/LG player at 1080i doesn't appear too soft to me. I find the image quite clear and sharp but smooth as well. There seems to be a depth to the picture that I don't see on other players.

Anyway, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to purchase the Zenith/LG player for it's 480p output. The 720p isn't really good either so you buy it for the 1080i over component or DVI. That's if you can get it to work over DVI without locking up and freezing. Mine won't cooperate but I use it with component anyway.

Wayne

Steve,

The thread seems to have quieted down a little bit but sure I'd be happy to have you bounce around a few of your ideas in a pm.

If you want a projector that will allow you to have some lights on and still give you a good picture you could do a lot worse than the H57. A step down from the 8700, yes, pixel wise I guess it is but when they get this high, it may just be splitting hairs. But the colors (beautiful and distinctive even when comparing different shades of the same color next to each other and also color saturation), blacks and CR in addition to the brightness and the recent price drop along with enticing promotions ought to make this a definite consideration. Especially for a second projector.

Wayne

Thanks to all that replyed. This is the same way I chose to try out the 4805 and H31 and you all have helped in me finding the right PJ.

Now onto this DVB318 1080i upconversion player.

1080i conversion over component looks like the next step in my home theater.
BB is sending it Nextday to me, so I will surely post impressions and comparison shots when I get it. Even if it doesn't work for my H31, I can bring it back to any BB store so I am not worried in the least. Another interesting weekend coming up! :cool:

Matt,
I have the Zenith 318 dvd player and I think you'll like it for the most part. Wayne(now know to us as Mr.E) has advised you well concerning this product. It has a few quirks, like pixel cropping on the right side of the image, some have reported green push, and the player can act funny if you turn it on with the dvi cable still plugged in(I think this is due to a slow hdcp handshake process). Well, mine acts funny if dvi is plugged in during power up. The unit can show white dots at the top of the image, but that can be fixed by switchng resolutions or powering off and on(this doesn't fix it for me in 1080i, but the H31's edge masking feature works well). Don't connect component and dvi at the same time to the 318. You'll most likely get a unit that has the newer firmware, which solves white crush on dvi, but you'll need to install the older firmware if you want to upconvert over component. PM me if you need help with this.

Although you've had trouble getting the H31 to see a digital signal from your htpc, I don't think you'll have trouble getting a signal from the 318's dvi output, especialy with the newer firmware. You seem to only be interested in the component outputs, but you'll actually get the best out of the 318 with dvi. However, you won't be able to use your current dvi cable, as it is dvi-i. The port on the 318 is for dvi-d, and a dvi-i cable won't plug into it, as it has too many pins on one side of it. If your dvi-i cable had a female connection at the player end, then you could plug a male to male dvi-d cable into it for a successful digital signal. Would you consider replacing your dvi-i cable with a dvi-d, or a male to female dvi-i? I found a 5 meter dvi-d for about $17, and it's great.

I also must add my opinion that upconversion to 1080i on the 318 is wonderful. I have seen a rather soft output on 720p and 1080i on other players, but not so for the Zenith or my Sammy HD 931. You'll love it. I get razor sharp images through dvi, better than 480p and 720p. I can't explain why, I just enjoy it.

Mr. E,
Thanks for your comments on the quality of the LG/318 player when compared to the htpc signal. It's good to know that I'm not that far away from the optimal signal. I'm quite satisfied, though I'd like to see Zenith or someone else fix the few remaining quirks in another software release. If Optoma ever fixes the pc dvi issues, then I'd consider building an htpc.

Zipplemeyer,
After reading your post, I want to make sure that you understand that the 318 also has a dvi output, and can upconvert, just as the S97 does over hdmi. I haven't seen the S97 in action, but I'd be really surprised to see the Panny totally stomp on the 318. The Zenith has the ability to upconvert over dvi and component, depending on which firmware you want to load, while the Panny and most other upconverting players can only do this over dvi or hdmi.

Hi,
Thanks for all the great information on the H31. I was wondering what type of screen are you using in the screenshots?
Thank you very much,
Projectorfun

I received my 318 last night. It has a build date of October 2004, so I tried upconverting to 1080i over component. As expected it didn't work so I burned the old firmware to CDR and loaded it in the 318. Downgrade goes without a hitch. The upconverted 1080i looks great. I may be in the minority here but I thought the 720p image looked very nice as well. Although the pixel cropping on the right side is a little annoying as well as the white dots at the top of the image, but as stated above the H31's edge masking handles that issue. If this player didn't crop pixels I would absolutlely love it, but it is still a great buy and a worthy investment given the current H31 HTPC issues. After I spend some more time with the 318 I'll post more observations.

Matt

As is so often the case, we make our judgements on what we see. The LG puts fresh meat on the table we Panny and Tosh users are unaccustomed to. How often I MUST remind myself how display dependent each player is. The irony is, before I had the H31 I tried out the LG on my existing displays and it went a packin'...mostly because of the 'green' push. Good info guys. Thanks.

Good to see the thread returning to where it started! I, for one, was getting tired of seeing only HTPC problems discussed. Maybe we need a new thread, like "H31 HTPC Issues"? New owners or potential owners should realize what a great PJ the H31 is, and for the majority of users the component and DVI inputs will provide a terrific image.

Good to see the thread returning to where it started! I, for one, was getting tired of seeing only HTPC problems discussed. Maybe we need a new thread, like "H31 HTPC Issues"? New owners or potential owners should realize what a great PJ the H31 is, and for the majority of users the component and DVI inputs will provide a terrific image.

Hey, I'm not going through all these gyrations only to keep my findings to myself.

Anyway, here's the latest.
Different PC. Different Video adapter (nVidia 5900XT)...same result. Seems safe to say now the Optoma is the culprit. Perhaps a firmware upgrade is all that it will take or perhaps a service menu adjustment.
Keep in mind, on video DVDs(30fps) it's very minor. You can sometimes go two or three minutes before you see a tearing incident. It is very brief, but it's there. Hardly a deal killer for me but an annoyance all the same.
Later, when time allows, I'll try out some gaming action and report back.

we're still talking about PC's at this point however right? The H31 hasn't exhibited any of these tearing tendencies when using its component inputs or DVI input from a DVD player or Cable Box, yes?

See what I mean? No, the H31 exhibits NO PROBLEMS when fed a component or DVI signal from DVD, Satellite or cable box. At least, none that I have seen!

I thought a poster back several pages made comment about having these problems from a source other than HTPC...........?

Wayne you know what I am talking about.... perhaps you could provide the details.....

From CMRA:
I get a occassional 'glitch' (tearing, I believe) right in the middle of my screen. It's rather random and infrequent. It is however much more apparent on film based material. On video (Shark Tale) I can watch for minutes before I see one. If I blink, I could miss it.
...
FWIW, my card scales at 768p and 1024p so I have no info to offer on 1:1 pixel mapping.

My suspicions: 1) the codecs, 2) 3:2 pull down 3) something awry in the hardware.
The fact that it occurs more on film still makes me suspect that it's the upscaling and/or the 3:2 pulldown on the HTPC rather than a problem with the H31. I don't see how the H31 could even know that it's 24fps. There should be nothing but 60fps progressive squirting out your DVI cable, no matter what the source is. The up or down scaling and 3:2 pulldown should have already happened.

Playing from the hard drive produced "0" glitches. I have a bunch of DivX-HD and WMVHD clips I use for testing and showing off the system. They are 720p and 1080p, respectively.
Hmmm.

I think I'm going to go for this baby. <gulp> I'll report back on how it works on an Intel/ATI system via DVI in a week or two.

I love my H31 and Panny S97....That is all.

Hi,
Thanks for all the great information on the H31. I was wondering what type of screen are you using in the screenshots?
Thank you very much,
Projectorfun

Who me!

My first page screenshots were with a 106" Dalite Mat White screen. I use a 106" Dalite High Power now. Actually I had a HD-movie going this morning that looked excellent (Die Hard with a Vengeance). Very strong blacks and colors and with the High Power screen. You just can't knock the blacks out of the way on this PJ.

Plus I couldn't see a screen door and I was veiwing closer than normal. Just looked like good resolution to me.

I just bought the Zenith as well, man, I have the next week off and I'll be getting the PJ on Monday, the Zenith on tuesday and the screen on Wednesday. I have been measuring and re-measuring in anticipation. This is about the first time I wanted a weekend to go by quickly.

Needless to say, I am VERY excited!

Damn you, GuitarMan! Damn You and your vile reviews and your "you can't live without this thing any longer" coaxing.....Damn You and your "Your Life Wont be complete without an H31 in your basement recroom!"...Damn...

errr..wait...nevermind, those are just the voices in my head :D

I'm tired of waffling...I think I'll just order one of these things.

PS: In another thread (errr..one of my dozen currently active...sorry all).....do I need an ND filter for this thing? If so, any particular size?

And if I wanted to get a spare lamp.....they're pretty cheap, all things considered...do they have a shelf life, or should I do the 90-day, swap out for replacement thing....?

Rburn and Hrush, lol~! I know the feeling, but it will all be worth it! ;)

To really make good use of the time waiting, how about going to a furniture store and scoping out a nice recliner or 2 (can't leave her out if this). That's what we're doing on saturday during the day, and if we find some we like, we'll take em home and enjoy the theater experience in the evening. After the Tyson fight of course!

I too have to wait till monday noon for the DVB318 and a new Black AV rack to arrive, to get that pro look in the "Screening room". :D

I hope some of the new 318 owners post some impressions to make the weekend go a little faster!

I just got some Berkline 090's with electric and Buttkickers, man what a ride! My wife and I shopped and shopped and finally settled on these. 5 Black 090's look great and are very cost concious.

HeadRusch,

You won't need an ND filter in my opinion. It's a bright little pj but apparently not quite as bright as the Infocus SP4805 which seems to be a good match for one of those filters. Wait until you get a chance to demo your own unit and then see if you think it needs to be toned down. I doubt you'll bother.

Congratulations to both you and RBurnthorn on your decision.

slakusr,

Yes, let us know what you think of the 318 once you get a chance to play with it. I noticed that the sound on DVDs improved with this player for some reason.

CMRA,

You may be able to tweak the tearing away by playing with PowerStrip. I was feeding the H31 a resolution of 48Hz at 1280 x 720 which seemed to eliminate the problem, but then the digital signal left me so I couldn't do any more testing.

You are correct about the green push on the LG. Mine absolutely cannot be used over component to my 64" Pioneer CRT RPTV. The green tinge will not go away no matter what I do. But when I used this player on the X1, H31 or H57, the green push can be adjusted to a very normal level. At least this is my experience.

floridapoolboy,

I hear you man. It's refreshing to read posts, especially from 'new blood' about how nice the H31 is.

But we 'old blood' were once excited 'new blood' too before the xxxx hit the fan. All I ever wanted to do was buy this pj, tweak it, and enjoy it but alas it didn't happen for me. I'm happy for you and others who have no problems with it.

I remember the H30 thread. It was all peaches and cream for a while and then that thread turned kind of ugly too for awhile with tons of posts about premature (no not that kind of premature) bulb failure and then buzzing sounds. Sort of took the joy out of the thread.

HiHoSteve is correct in that these issues plaguing many of us in the HTPC community can indeed cross over to those using component cables.

Steve,

I'm glad you brought that up because at least two people have discovered tearing when not using HTPCs. It involved I believe transcoding signals from VGA/DVI to component on the H31 which resulted in tearing.

Some interesting information about this problem can be found on pages 76 and 77 of this thread. In particular the posts by 'Potus' should be looked at. Here is one of them:

Well, the tearing problem is also readily apparent when connecting a progressive scan DVD player through the VGA port. No HTPC needed.

Apparently DVI-connected DVD players do not have these problems.. (which is curious to me... I would expect it to be relatively easy to generate the equivalent DVI signal with an HTPC...)

Anyone intending on purchasing the H31 for HTPC usage or sending a VGA signal from a DVD player to the H31 may experience tearing.

Straight component is fine and also straight DVI from a DVD player is fine.

Wayne

Who has tried interlaced via their HTPC? You read plenty about 480 SDI but what about 720i and 768i from their PC? I'm curious how the pixelworks fairs here.

CMRA, maybe I missed it in this long thread, but have you tried the built-in ATI resolution of 848x480@60Hz? Most HTPCers believe that the PC does a very good job of scaling. And it might help with the tearing.

Just for information, if anyone cares

just put in my 30' hdmi to dvi-d cable from RAM.

works like a champ with the S77.

i actually had the S77 right next to the H31 on the ceiling. Thought i was really smart and would save some money, all was good until i pushed the load button and realized i only had 1" clearance from the ceiling to the tray :D

Also, since i ran 3/4" plastic flex conduit, i had to shave some of the overmolded part off of the HDMI connector.

So all is well again for me.

Real bummer that the htpc world doesn't seem to be working.

I can only surmise that the H31 really only likes 720x480

David

all was good until i pushed the load button and realized i only had 1" clearance from the ceiling to the tray :D



LMFAO!

Thanks for that!

What I like about the 318 is *if* I want to squeeze out even more performance from my HT and H31, I just have to buy the 25' HDMI to DVI cable and use that instead of component.

LMFAO!


glad i could provide some humor,

and BTW the other thing was that i could hear the DVD player when it changed chapters as it was right over my head.

so is the H31 but it doesn't seem to bother me, i guess you get used to the fan sound

i remember hearing the wheel whine when i first got it but haven't noticed it anymore.

noise, one of my big concerns is just has not been an issue with this projector

and ambient light,

obviously, the darker the better but my room, which is in the middle of the house but does have windows on the south side is not completely dark in the afternoon by any stretch of the imagination but the image on the 48x85 screen is very watchable.

of course i say this for all of those out there sitting on the fence about the H31.

David

Has this happened to anyone else?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LENNY 2112
Well once again I went to watch a DVD and my settings reset, only the advanced adjustments reset?? Brightness and contrast stayed as set, but colors went all back to 0? Anyone...anyone?


Has this happened to anyone else?

Yes, I lose my settings from the advanced menu every night. Most annoying. I leave the PJ plugged in but turned off. The green power light is flashing slowly so I know the unit still has power.

I'm totally new to the Home Theater world although I've been browsing AVS for a long time. I finallly took the plunge and got my H31 last week and bought the cable at CC. I plugged everything in (DVI to DVI), turned on the projector than turned on the PC and put in a dvd using DVD Player The projector searched and found the signal. I had to fool a bit with the display settings. I always got a signal and picture but on some settings it was stretched. i think I settled for awhile on 1024x768 but also tried 1152x720, 640x480, and 800x500. The movie (Star Wars - the one with the ewoks that i actually enjoyed this time after not seeing it since its theatrical release) played without a glitch. I've read all 90 pages of this thread (and I think I understood at least 65% of the info) and I'm wondering if using a Mac has been the reason why I was able to use it as an HTPC. I did notice that the movie played in the middle of my screen (a wall) and was surrounded by a "frame" of dark projected screen. So, I need help figuring out what settings I should use. 848x480 wasn't offered on my display preferences. I hope this adds a bit of information to all ou you who are struggling with the H31 HTPC problem. Thanks, Jonathan

It doesn't happen very often. I discovered a DVD that looks excellent at 1080i on the H31. Guys, pop in your LOTR-ROTK disc and tell me your results. (BTW, I feel this has got to be one of the best/cleanest transfers ever)
Mine was utterly 'filmlike'. See if you agree.

... I always got a signal and picture but on some settings it was stretched. i think I settled for awhile on 1024x768 but also tried 1152x720, 640x480, and 800x500.
Those are all 4:3 resolutions and the H31 is a 16:9 display. 16:9 would be 854x480, 1024x576, 1280x720, 1600x900, or 1920x1080.

CMRA - have you ever tried the 848x480? I believe I read you have a Radeon 9800 so you should be able to select that resolution without any 3rd party tweaking.

I'm wondering now if part of the PC problem is because the H31 doesn't have correct EDID information. The Mac should have recognized the native resolution, and so should the PCs. In Powerstrip you can create a custom monitor driver for monitors that have bad plug and play info. Has anyone tried that?

Everyone probably knows this already, but ideally with a PC sending a display its native resolution, the display device does no scaling, deinterlacing, or 3:2 pulldown work. At that point if you saw tearing I wouldn't think the display was responsible.

CMRA - have you ever tried the 848x480? I believe I read you have a Radeon 9800 so you should be able to select that resolution without any 3rd party tweaking.

.

As I recall when I hooked up to the H31 the scale ranged from 800x600 (svga) to 1280x1024. It automatically presents a 'range' with each display device it's connected to. Perhaps there's a custom setup I should know about which overrides the settings menu?

The Optoma remote has a "re-sync" botton in the upper right hand corner. Do you suppose... Has anyone tried...

As I recall when I hooked up to the H31 the scale ranged from 800x600 (svga) to 1280x1024. It automatically presents a 'range' with each display device it's connected to. Perhaps there's a custom setup I should know about which overrides the settings menu?
Display->Properties->Settings->Advanced->Adapter->List All Modes.

And you should have the latest or very recent ATI drivers installed. You can also install the latest nVidia decoder on a free 30 day trial.

There are definitely some displays out there that give PCs trouble. The Sharp Aquos at 1366x768 is difficult to set up. I think there are some Toshiba RP sets that just will not work over DVI from a PC.

The Optoma remote has a "re-sync" botton in the upper right hand corner. Do you suppose... Has anyone tried...




yes

HeadRusch

You do need a ND2 filter - if nothing else to see how bright it will be when your lamp dims. All lamps are hour rated for 50% brightness point - and the ND2 will show you what that will be. At least use it to pick the right screen with enough gain - once you do you realize it is brighter than movie spec and you want to use it for a while.

Thanks for the feedback. i plugged in the dvi and lo and behold the screen display switched over to 1280x720 and it read on the projector screen "Digital RGB 60hz Mode 82. I then noticed that 848x480 was available. I switched and the screen called it Mode 43. The picture looked fine but its too light right now for me to truely judged the quality. Is 848x480 the best possible picture for my HTPC? Thanks, Jonathan

Thanks Kraz, I'll put one on my list. So a Hoya (is hoya a brand name?)......Hoya 67mm ND....??

Anything else I need to know?

Hoya 67mm Haze UV(0) (HMC) Multi-Coated Glass Filter

is this the one?

Here are some pics of something that I made that I call a 'Screen Shifter'. It does the work of a 'lens shift' option on a projector.

So, with this helpful tool, one can mount a projector first, followed by the screen. You then shift the screen to one side or the other depending on where you need the placement to be in order to line it up properly with the projector lens.

This device only works with pull down screens but I can see something similar being incorporated into fixed screen installations. Something akin to rollers and tracks not unlike the sliding blackboards used in schools.

It's basically a large piece of dowelling with hooks insterted to hang the screen from and also to limit the horizontal movement to pre-determined measurements. I'm using black plastic chain links, S hooks, metal strapping around the dowelling and for now some black electrician's tape to hold the metal strapping from moving until I can find some time to insert some screws to more permanently hold the position (until my next projector that is :) ).

I will be painting the dowelling and hooks etc... a flat black, probably the same paint that I used on the back wall or maybe just a cheap can of flat black paint.

Some more.

Here are closer shots of the ends and a longer view.

Here are some pictures of the sides of the room since you've now already seen the back and front. Also one screenshot of the Optoma on the High Power screen. I used a 3.2 MP Canon A75 without a tripod. It looks better in person.

Here are some pics of something that I made that I call a 'Screen Shifter'. It does the work of a 'lens shift' option on a projector.

So, with this helpful tool, one can mount a projector first, followed by the screen.

a nifty idea but why?

you mount the projector first, just like you said, project the image, mark where the screen goes, and mount it.

Am I missing something here?

David

Hi David,

Yes you are correct that for the first install of a projector and screen this 'screen shifter' isn't necessary. Why I made it is because of future. subsequent projector installations that require either a lens shift feature on the projector or movement of the mount. If you don't have lens shift on your projector it's much easier to move the screen with this apparatus than to unscrew your mounting plate from the wall and create new holes a few inches to the side to accommodate the different lens configuration of the new projector. I now have installed three different projectors from two manufacturers in the last two years and not one of them would have resulted in the lens lining up with the middle of the screen if placed in the exact same position on the wall. Because of each projectors design differences, the lens placement is almost always going to be needing adjustment.

So whenever you change projectors, and you will, you can utilize the same mounting holes on the wall and even the same mount if you have a universal one or can adapt your present mount to fit the new projector which I've done now with all three of my projectors which I've had.

This 'screen shifter' then makes the whole process very easy. You just put up the new projector in the exact same spot as the old one, then line up the screen using the device. Works like a charm!

Wayne

therapyjon,

What kind of dvi cable do you have: DVI-I or DVI-D, and what length?

Have you viewed it under better light conditions yet and if so how was it?

Do you happen to have access to a PC with DVI output and if so would you do a little experimentation for the good of all? If you could plug your PJ into a DVI port on a PC and see if it still works that would tell us something.

If it does work, well maybe you got lucky and just have an H31 that works right, if it works on the mac but not on the PC then we really can deduce something special. If you can't that's understandable, it just occured to me this might be helpful.

I have had my H31 since February, and have only used a Dennon 1910 upconverting over DVI-D to the PJ, and the image is nothing short of stunning!

I just got hooked up with Satellite service, and I am disappointed to say the least. They claim all Digital, and yes, the delivery is digital, but the best output available on the receiver is S-Video. The image is fuzzy, and simply lacks that vibrant 'pop' that I get with my DVD's.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to improve the image over S-Video with my Satellite provider?

Thanks in advance

I dont think you will get a better signal with the satellite receiver you purchased.
The lower models are not hd so the best they have is svideo. You could purchase a hd satellite receiver and it would have component out, this would give you a much better signal.

Thanks,
but I do not wish to $pend more on an HD receiver, and then $pend more on monthly programming. I know that this will definitely give me a better picture, I was just hoping with the wealth of knowledge here, some one may have a tip or trick to help using the components and connections I have!

Digital Monkey...............

It is sort of the old Computer Adage... Garbage In... Garbage Out.........

The only other thing I could suggest also costs money... if you ran the signals through something like the DVDO iScan HD+ it would undoubtable improve the image... however, it is also not inexpensive....

Wish I knew something good and cheap.... if anybody does, please chime in... I would like to use it too! I spend "way" to much time on the SciFi channel.

HiHoStevo....

I hear ya with the garbage in garbage out!

BUT....I know that my image was good until I tweaked it using Guitarmans, among other's, suggestions on film vs graphics.....adjusting the RGB settings.......adjusting the sharpness, gamma, etc.

After I did some of that tweaking, the image came to life!

This is more of the tips and tricks I'm looking for,....I know a gold plated turd is still a turd....

Thanks

Time to take my H31 to the next level. I have 70 hours on the bulb so I feel comfortable going into the service menu now.

Which begs the question: How do you enter the service menu on the H31? And, how do I exit gracefully also?

Naturally, I'll start with Tom's settings and go from there. Thanks, CMRA

CMRA,

I found this on page 28 of this thread for you originally posted by Tom/Guitarman:

Service code
Up + Enter 2X
Left + Enter 2X

Up + Left + Down 1X

Move around with cross controls, enter to enter an area, in some spots enter will back you out, if not menu will back you out.

These buttons apparently must be keyed in on the unit itself, not the remote.

Hope this helps!

Wayne

javdog,
I may be missing something, but why do you need an hdmi to dvi cable? The 318 has dvi, as well as pc videocards and the H31, right? You'll just need a dvi to dvi cable.

javdog,
I may be missing something, but why do you need an hdmi to dvi cable? The 318 has dvi, as well as pc videocards and the H31, right? You'll just need a dvi to dvi cable.


I think he was trying to future proof the installation by running an HDMI cable instead of a DVI... also HDMI is easier to get through the conduit than DVI.

Yeah, I meant I could go either connection route, if I wanted more image fidelity from the player or my tastes became more discerning in the future. :D

Digitalmonkey:

The garbage picture is just a fact from the limitations of the signal combined with the exaggerated size put out by the PJ. It is taking a step back to watch regular TV with the higher resolution or size PJ's.

I wouldn't bother with an HD box or DVI for regular TV. I had VOOM until the went under, and Dish network HD when it first came out. Component was the best connection, followed by DVI believe it or not. DVI actually showed a "digital" distortion, kinda like screen door, on my HDRPTV sony. My personal feeling is that component has a large enough pipe to transfer DVD AND High Def resolution at our current state of technology. Yes, you are not seeing the precise replication of data thru component, but I enjoy it's flexibility and cost. And the difference I have seen was more of a placebo effect, or a feeling of KNOWING it was a pure transfer. Not that it isn't good and that a DVI picture isn't superior to component, it is, but in your case with TV, it's overkill and redundant.

Anyway, my experience with HD is it's great when it has content. Voom had 30+ channels of lame content most of the time, so while it was a nice thing to have, in reality, only the NFL and NBA really took advantage of it's resolution. That to me is the ONLY selling point of HD right now, the NFL!

javdog,

thanks, I was just looking to have a few NASCAR weekends on the big screen, I guess I'll just have everyone upstairs instead. (36 inch tube).

Thanks

Dunno........ the picture I get from my projector looks better through DVI from and DTV HD receiver than the same signal coming over either s-video or component... I have tried them all.

Yes, I agree HIHO. I think it's the cost involed in getting that PQ that your describing.

I was by no means saying it wouldn't help a PJ, esp. if it was an NTSC signal, I just didn't think that subscribing to a more expensive box, and buying the 80$ cable would yield the improvement to justify the moola.

But if it's not a big deal financially, I guess it wouldn't hurt to try it out. That really would be the best way to know for sure. Especially if you've invested your heart and soul in your Home theater. :)

Aren't they supposed to be showing NASCAR in HD?

therapyjon,

What kind of dvi cable do you have: DVI-I or DVI-D, and what length?

Have you viewed it under better light conditions yet and if so how was it?

Do you happen to have access to a PC with DVI output and if so would you do a little experimentation for the good of all? If you could plug your PJ into a DVI port on a PC and see if it still works that would tell us something.

If it does work, well maybe you got lucky and just have an H31 that works right, if it works on the mac but not on the PC then we really can deduce something special. If you can't that's understandable, it just occured to me this might be helpful.
rbastedo,
The cable is 2 meter DVI 400 made by Monster (costly but i was in a hurry to try it out).

Looking at the picture at night on a 40"x60" white board in a room painted white with much to much reflected light, the picture seemed very bright and the colors looked accurate. I tuned it up a bit with my AVIVA disc but got lost after setting the contrast and brightness. i hope to try guitarmans configurations but i have to study them more so i make sure i do it right. I plan to pick up a 4'x8' white board from HD but doing the HT thing very gradually so as not to send my wife into a state of Electronic Gadgit Panic Syndrome. I don't think she will ever allow me to paint the living room black but we'll cross that road when we come to it.

I don't have anyone nearby with a pc to try out my projector with but it is just recently delivered from Costco so maybe it is a newer model

therapyjon,
I also tried a Monster DVI400 and no joy here.

I am starting to think it's time for an RMA back to Optoma. Maybe there's an upgrade to the firmware in the more recent units.

On my H31, I have to point the remote directly at the back sensor, and even then it sometimes is unresponsive unless I'm within a few feet. I can't get it to recognize the remote at all when bouncing off the screen into the front sensor (a much preferred method). Never had these problems with my old pj.

Has anyone else seen this?

I just got my H31 and a 106" dalite screen, and a Zenith DVB318 Upconverting DVD. I am sitting 15' away and......

All I can say is WOW!

I have been waiting and waiting thinking it wasn't going to be that great to have a low res device like this and counldn't have been more wrong.

I am going through component and had to flash the Zenith to the LG version to take advantage of the upconverting.

I will probably be up allnight setting up my new Harmony 880 to utilize all the devices and tweeking it more and more.

Hey, does anyone have a faq of the settings that Tom has made to date? I got to page 30 and had to move on. I was hoping someone could make it easy for me so I can get back to playing!...lol

BTW...HDTV from a HD PVR (cable) looks great! I am compairing it to my HD RPTV and I am shocked at how good it looked.

This from a guy that has terrific vision, I notice no SDE from 15' ...simply awesome.

Thanks to all that have helped me make this call, it was a good one and should last the 3 year warranty until I am going to be looking at upgrading again.

I'm tellin' ya!

These projectors kick arse! And at 15', oh you are in the sweet spot for clairity!
What would you equate the feeling to? About 5 rows from the back of the local theater?

My 318 hasn't arrived yet because of damn UPS sending it to the wrong sorting facility here in calif. Blasted! My new A/V rack arrived so at least I have that to do tonight, but damn I wanted to see the 1081i on my H31! Oh well, I can wait 24 more hours. :(

But yeah, arrival day is a great day!

For Gman's settings check the "talkin' H31" thread, he updated the settings in that thread, pretty sure it's in the last 2 pages. :)

Welcome to the club!

Just got done playing with my 318 a little more. The pixel cropping on the right side was bugging me quite a bit so after a bit of testing I think I have found the best compromise for me. When you change the full screen mode on the H31 to 1.85 the image centers itself perfectly. Now, you will lose a very small amount of picture from each side (and I do mean very small), but I feel the trade off is worth it.

Test it for yourself...toss in a DVD and pause it on a scene that has some details at the edges of the picture and then toggle through the full screen modes (although for widescreen presentations the only logical choices are normal and 1.85) . I find the very minimal cropping to be much less offensive than an image that is shifted to the left. The picture quality from this combo is quite stunning. If I get a chance tomorrow I will take some screenshots and post them.

Matt

Matt,
I've had my 318 for awhile, and hadn't thought to check out 1.85 for picture centering. I'll take a look.

javdog,
Thanks for the clarification. Yes, hdmi is a thinner cable. Either way, you come out with a winning image. In defense of Voom, while I only enjoyed 2 or 3 of the Voom 21 original channels, I found that Voom offered more national hd channels than anybody. I really miss the 2 HBO HDs, 2 MAX HDs, ENC HD, 2 STRZ HDs, TMC HD, UHD, 2 SHO HDs, and so on. These channels ran great movies and shows in hd all the time.

RBurnthorn,
Welcome to the club. I know how happy you are. Yes, the 318 throws a killer image at 1080i. I'm glad you like it. If you want to see something even better, try a dvi cable at 1080i. It'll blow you away. After several months of viewing, I'm still saying wow.

CMRA ,
You've got a PM.

RBurnthorn, welcome to our little world.

I can't get it to recognize the remote at all when bouncing off the screen into the front sensor (a much preferred method).I have no remote problems at all on my H31. In fact, my MX-500 batteries were running low the other week and the DVD player wasn't picking up the signals anymore half the time. But the H31 still responded very crisply, bouncing off the screen that's about 10 ft away.

ok I recieve a picture from DVI D in 848X480 but the only problem is i think what that you calling tearing?
thats the blue line?

but i saw one thing that its only appear when i watch movie or on the desktop...
when im opening an explorer windows its does NOT appear...

EDIT !!!
i just got able to produce 848X480 in 50HZ no TEARING !!
856X480 in 40 HZ NO TEARING !

No, that blue line is NOT tearing. It's something else.

Tearing refers to a very specific effect where there is a discontinuity in the image. It sort-of appears as if a portion of the image is displaying one frame, while the balance is displaying another, with on obvious, generally horizontal "border" between the two. Sometimes this "border" will precess left-and-right, or up-and-down a little. This visible and usually moving border gives the impression of physically "tearing" the image, hence the name. When it occurs, it's usually sporadic, so it is may be difficult to detect.

No, that blue line is NOT tearing. It's something else.

Tearing refers to a very specific effect where there is a discontinuity in the image. It sort-of appears as if a portion of the image is displaying one frame, while the balance is displaying another, with on obvious, generally horizontal "border" between the two. Sometimes this "border" will precess left-and-right, or up-and-down a little. This visible and usually moving border gives the impression of physically "tearing" the image, hence the name. When it occurs, it's usually sporadic, so it is may be difficult to detect.

ok so what is that blue line?!
maybe the cable? its 10M REALLY BUDGET CABLE!

I have no remote problems at all on my H31. In fact, my MX-500 batteries were running low the other week and the DVD player wasn't picking up the signals anymore half the time. But the H31 still responded very crisply, bouncing off the screen that's about 10 ft away.
Thanks for the reply. I seem to recall reading glowing (no pun intended) reviews of this remote, so maybe I just got a bad one. I'll try replacing the batteries, and maybe program my universal remote to see where the problem lies...

PS. It is great that the remote has back-lighting, but does anyone else have extreme difficulty reading the small button text in the dark? (perhaps it's my aging eyesight, but I have no trouble reading the text on my other backlighted remote..)

Thanks for the reply. I seem to recall reading glowing (no pun intended) reviews of this remote, so maybe I just got a bad one. I'll try replacing the batteries, and maybe program my universal remote to see where the problem lies...

PS. It is great that the remote has back-lighting, but does anyone else have extreme difficulty reading the small button text in the dark? (perhaps it's my aging eyesight, but I have no trouble reading the text on my other backlighted remote..)

I just got the harmony 880 and the text is lit up within the buttons, if you move the remote the light comes on, kindof nice, no futzing around with looking for the light button, it controls everything and has a color screen with hard buttons.

it programmed the H31 with no problems and is very responsive.

Can someone please help me with a question.

I have a 92 inch diagonal screen, and plan on ceiling mounting this unit. I can mount it at any range of the throw distance, hoping on finding which one will be best.
My ceiling is 7 feet 2 inches high, and I can most likely get the center of the lens to be 5 inches from the ceiling. (home made moubt)
My question is, without any use of keystone, how far from the ceiling will the top of my screen be?

I have read a lot of conflicting numbers on offset and really hope to clear this up.

many thanks

Lyle

For the H31 it is 37% of the height I believe (those are the numbers I was using).

So 17" of offset??

The H31's lens would need to be mounted 17" higher than the TOP of your image.

Can someone please help me with a question.

I have a 92 inch diagonal screen, and plan on ceiling mounting this unit. I can mount it at any range of the throw distance, hoping on finding which one will be best.
My ceiling is 7 feet 2 inches high, and I can most likely get the center of the lens to be 5 inches from the ceiling. (home made moubt)
My question is, without any use of keystone, how far from the ceiling will the top of my screen be?

I have read a lot of conflicting numbers on offset and really hope to clear this up.

many thanks

Lyle

Offset is 37.5% of the screen height (.375 x 45") = 16.875". Add your drop of 5" gives you the top of the screen at 21.875". Don't make the mistake I did and forget to factor in any screen masking as well:)

many thanks gentlemen

I have a 106" screen and the center of my lens is 82" off the floor, the bottom of the screen is 22" off of the floor, with 0 Keystone needed...I was sweating that one. I would have liked the screen a bit higher, but the back row can see clearly without heads in the front blocking. 1st row is 15' away projector mounted right above first row.

I ran some tests this morning with colorfacts. Checking how well Image/PC vs Image Film will do for leveling gamma levels.

PC gamma 1 will hold the flatter gamma level
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h31pcgamma65k.jpg

PC's RGB
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h31pcgammargb.jpg



Film gamma 1 will spike gamma at the high numbers
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h31filmgamma2.jpg

Film's RGBhistory
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h31filmhistogram.jpg

I ran gamma check on each using gamma 2,3 and each time gamma 1 got closet to 2.2 and much flatter with using either Film or PC.

For you guys using DVI here's the numbers for D65k

First in the service area setting up Image/Film gamma 1
Picture -
Gain Red 167
Gain Gr 158
Gain Bl 155

Bias Red 123
Bias Gr 125
Bias Bl 125

DLP's are all at 32

Next PC gamma 1
Service picture area remains the same, just use the User Advanced RGB

Red Contrast minus 2
Gr Contrast 0
Bl Contrast 0

Red Brightness 1
Gr Brightness 0
BL Brightness 1

Don't change any other things in the service menu, just Picture. Don't mess around in there. :) Oh plus write down your original service Picture RGB numbers.

After changing use avia for black and whites my user blacks&whites were the following, at least for PC gamma1 which I'll be using.

Cinema
Contrast minus 17
Brightness zero


Here's my colorfacts settings back up, I'll post them in the first post

Thanks Tom.

This offset thing is really making me think. I just dont' think I would like my screen that close to the floor. I'm using an Infocus SP4800 right now and my screen is probably 12-16" from the ceiling which leaves my plenty of room at the bottom. If I go with the H31 and it's 37.5% of offset and maybe 5" drop for my ceiling mount then that puts me at 25.75" from the ceiling. That seems really low for my small room. Maybe I just have my screen mounted higher than most people and that's what I'm used to. :confused:

Nope, I think the H31 was just designed for people with taller ceilings (like 8 feet) in mind.

Some projectors have very little projection offset, and people complained that in order to get a good picture they had to mount their PJ's at like eye leve...either too low from a tall ceiling or too high up on a really tall coffee-table or stand or something.

Enter these projectors with large offsets, so you can put it on a "average" height coffee-table and still throw an image up on your wall that you aren't looking through your knees to view.

High Screen Offset just makes it tough for people with LOW ceilings, where those "minimum offset" projectors would work much better.

Nope, I think the H31 was just designed for people with taller ceilings (like 8 feet) in mind.

Some projectors have very little projection offset, and people complained that in order to get a good picture they had to mount their PJ's at like eye leve...either too low from a tall ceiling or too high up on a really tall coffee-table or stand or something.

Enter these projectors with large offsets, so you can put it on a "average" height coffee-table and still throw an image up on your wall that you aren't looking through your knees to view.

High Screen Offset just makes it tough for people with LOW ceilings, where those "minimum offset" projectors would work much better.

Okay, that makes sense. My ceilings are 8' but the rough measuring I was doing last night made me think that the screen would drop a good bit from where it is now. Honestly, I have my projector tilted up a bit to match the screen height as it is now. I could probably drop my screen 2-3" and be dead center to the projector being parallel to the ceiling. If I was to rig up something to make the H31 mount completely flush to the ceiling would this hurt anything? Would this restrict air flow or performance at all? I was thinking of a recessed box that would have a threaded nut of some type and then the projector would have a male end to screw into the recessed female end. The problem with this I suppose is that I get little or no movement on any axis for adjustment. I don't know, this might be more trouble than it's worth. I might have to wait until the next house with 10 or 11 foot ceilings to enjoy the H31 properly.

For what it's worth, here's my setup:
H31 lens to ceiling = 5inches
96" diag 16:9 screen starts 22 1/4 inch from ceiling
13'7" lens to screen
8 ft ceilings

My screen seems to be mounted ideally, 1/3 below seated eye level. The picture looks great! Good luck!

Nope, I think the H31 was just designed for people with taller ceilings (like 8 feet) in mind.Sounds about right. In fact, I could do with even more offset. My H31 hangs on a 3 ft pole off my 10'4" ceiling, shooting at a screen about 10 ft away, and the picture is still a smidgeon high, despite about 10 clicks of keystone.

Originally Posted by floridapoolboy
Good to see the thread returning to where it started! I, for one, was getting tired of seeing only HTPC problems discussed. Maybe we need a new thread, like "H31 HTPC Issues"? New owners or potential owners should realize what a great PJ the H31 is, and for the majority of users the component and DVI inputs will provide a terrific image.

Hey, I'm not going through all these gyrations only to keep my findings to myself.


I hope not! I have been very interested in the H31 since this thread was first started, and been TRYING to keep up. The deal killer for me is the lack of pc support. My last pj died, but I had a computer just for it. If I am going to be unable to have my htpc hooked up without issues (my last pj didn't have any with the pc), then I am buying something else, plain and simple. I was going to buy one when Tom first started this thread, and then decided to take care of a couple other things first. I am SOOOO glad I waited. I was thinking of getting a pj in about a month, but with these issues as they are, I am going to have to start over and research something else. Or wait until the next wave of pjs come along.

So please keep coming with the reports on htpc, there is room for it as well as room for talks about how great the pj is otherwise. No matter how great it is tho, if it won't work with my source, it's a paperweight. Besides, all the 'negative' talking here may come up with something positive, like a solution. I tend to think that's not gonna happen, but if it does I would buy the H31 in a heartbeat. As it is, well, not so much. I've had a couple friends gearing up to buy pjs as well, and at the moment, I am telling them to hold on. I know pcs will be involved with them as well, and I don't want to stear them wrong.

Don

floridapoolboy, I love the PJ for HDTV - really great PQ - it totally rocks

However, I still can't get it to sync digital with my PC.

I tried some more gyrations today, a friend told me about NVtweak - a tweaking program for Nvidia graphics cards. He brought it up because there is a setting to "Allow Force DVI As HDTV".

I got it, installed it, checked that option and ... no luck. I don't get an option anywhere in my Nvidia control panel or Nview or anywhere to "Force DVI As HDTV".
I tried "Force TV Detection" but only had options for Svideo & Composite TV.
No DVI.

I also tried disconnecting the DVI cable, restarting the PC, Detecting Displays, seeing if maybe the DVI port would come available and maybe the Force DVI As HDTV choice would somehow appear but once again - no joy.

Maybe I can find some documentation somewhere about this and see if there's a trick to get it working, I haven't given up but I don't see many more things I could try except buying an ATI 9800Pro (or maybe trading my BFG 5900 for one).

I feel bad about all the problems the H31 is having with HTPC applications, since otherwise this is one great PJ! Read the new article at www.projectorcentral.com. They did a shootout with 7 budget PJs, and guess who won best picture? Thats right, the H31! I am so glad I chose this PJ, as the image with DVI HDTV and component DVD is terrific. I do admit, though, that I would have liked to try a HTPC at some point, but it looks like that will have to wait till upgrade time! I agree, however, that Optoma needs to address this issue. Good luck!

Looking for screen recs. My H31 is ceiling mounted about 11ft away from the screen with dark burgundy velvet curtains on the front wall, all other walls painted dark olive green and fairly dark carpet. My theater is in the basement so light control is easy. The achilles heal of my room is that my ceiling is comprised of off-white panels which redirect a bit of light. I plan on buying fabric and making a diy frame and was originally going to go with a 1-1.3 gain white but now am wondering if I need something else to combat the ceiling glare. Any thoughts?

Moe

The achilles heal of my room is that my ceiling is comprised of off-white panels which redirect a bit of light. I plan on buying fabric and making a diy frame and was originally going to go with a 1-1.3 gain white but now am wondering if I need something else to combat the ceiling glare. Any thoughts?


Put it up, plug it in, don't worry. It will be great.

David

Well I will be sending the H31 back in the next week or so as I cannot even get a DVI-D signal into the unit (HTPC will not see the H31 is even there) .

Sorry All , wish I could have helped with the Pixel Mapping & Tearing issues :( .

----------- Jason

Jason, I don't know if you are free to say or not but if so...

Did you have any discussion with Optoma at all about this?
If so, and if you are free to tell about it, please share.

Rick

Rick ,

--- No discussion with Optoma Tech at all . I am confident that there is nothing they could have added that would be something that I do not already know at the HTPC end of things and they offered no input on the H31 end (to be fair to them I did not ask for any insight) .

---------- Jason

floridapoolboy,

ya, it kinda sucks about the htpc issues. Everything I have heard about the H31 pq has been very positive, so I don't want to knock the pj, but I know that if I can't hook up my pc without issues, then that great pq doesn't really matter. Oddly enough, I don't want the htcp for the quality, as I am sure a good dvd player would get me almost all the way there. (of course, why spend the money on a good player when I have one, it's my htpc?) I want the htpc more for the flexibility. It's there, it's hooked up to my network, I have access to all my files, my music, my tv shows, whatever I want. Since I can't get a dvd player with that kind of flexibility, I know I would end up regreting it if I was limited to just a dvd player. And why by something that I am going to end up regretting?

jason,

shame that you couldn't get things working... curious tho, does the tearing not present itself on vga as well? If so, if you were able to eliminate it on vga, it's possilbe that the same thing may eliminate it on dvi. At worst, you would still be doing good for the people that are limited to vga but have the tearing issue. Also, can you not do pixel mapping in vga? If you could, would the timings not be similiar for dvi? Or does vga not have that kind of control? Just curious.


Don

I get the tearing hooked up to my HTPC via DVI-A (analog signal).
I've heard it's simply sharper & clearer with DVI-D.

jason, if you get a chance, please take a look at the tearing over VGA and see if you can resolve it. you may simply not have the time, and if not i totally understand, but as loner said, maybe you can figure something out that the rest of us have missed. like you said though, since it's the same chip as the 4805, you'd probably just be beating a dead horse. it has to be done via dvi-d.

yeh it would be nice if we could find the exact refresh rate for 848 x 480 that would stop that scrolling line. Is what everyone means by tearing because thats the only problem i get with the vga. I am really sick of optoma's customer service too, i have emailed them 3 times in the last month and a half about this issue and they havent got back to me.

I'm interested in this projector for a HTPC too. Besides tearing I thought It also produced orange reds on a HTPC. Has anyone with a pc resolved this issue?

Dan

Well I will be sending the H31 back in the next week or so as I cannot even get a DVI-D signal into the unit (HTPC will not see the H31 is even there) .

Sorry All , wish I could have helped with the Pixel Mapping & Tearing issues :( .

----------- Jason
Thanks Jason,
I think the DVI input is weak on picking up signal levels. Because it won't read the Bravo with two long cables, only a 6'cable. If they could do something to increase the inputs pull level maybe that would help. Do HTPC's in general have a weak sending output?

yeh it would be nice if we could find the exact refresh rate for 848 x 480 that would stop that scrolling line. Is what everyone means by tearing because thats the only problem i get with the vga. I am really sick of optoma's customer service too, i have emailed them 3 times in the last month and a half about this issue and they havent got back to me.

welcome to the club. i'm not expert with powerstrip, but i've spent several hours trying to get that to go away with no luck. i can make it change directions :)

i've tried with and without powerstrip on a Geforce 6600GT, 6800GTO and an AIW 9800 Pro. there are some who have been able to minimize the issue, but it is still there, so it hasn't been resolved.

some have speculated it's an issue with vertical sync, but i've played with the driver settings on all 3 of the above cards and it has not shown any different results.

If I were a betting man I would bet the problem lies with bad EDID info being passed from the H31 to the PC. I wish someone could try something like the DVI Detective (http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=1378) to spoof it.

Wing told me today that he does have someone looking into why some machines are not picking up the signal or having tearing problems with different video cards. Also he said they tried two different HTPC setups in their lab and both worked good. So they're looking into a variety of machines to try and pin down the problem.

Thanks Jason,
I think the DVI input is weak on picking up signal levels. Because it won't read the Bravo with two long cables, only a 6'cable. If they could do something to increase the inputs pull level maybe that would help. Do HTPC's in general have a weak sending output?

You know, that's a good question... one could assume that the typical dvi device being hooked up to a pc would be an lcd monitor, which would normally be connected through a 6' cable. If the video card engineer assumes this is the normal device being hooked up , it wouldn't require as strong a signal as, say, a 30' cable. Whereas a dvd player might be assumed to be driving something 30' away or more, requiring a stronger signal. If people are having better luck with short cables than long cables, that may very well have something to do with it. I have no idea what kind of differences we would be talking about tho in signal strengths from a short cable to a long cable. I wouldn't imagine there would be THAT much signal loss but who knows?

Pure speculation on my part, of course, but there does seem to be some logic to it. And of course it may be what you said in your opening sentence, in that the H31 DVI input just isn't sensitive enough. If DVD players typically have stronger DVI signals, the H31 may have been built tested with dvd players and its input calibrated based around that. You get a weaker PC DVI signal, or a DVD player with a weaker signal, and bingo, no picture.

I would have thought that dvi would have some sort of specification regarding signals strengths. But like they say, specs are meant to be broken.

Don

Wing told me today that he does have someone looking into why some machines are not picking up the signal or having tearing problems with different video cards. Also he said they tried two different HTPC setups in their lab and both worked good. So they're looking into a variety of machines to try and pin down the problem.

I wonder if they would mind posting the details of their systems that work "good". And does working "good" also mean absolutely no tearing, or just that they get a signal with dvi? They could write off the odd tear as being overly picky. Or, maybe they get none at all, which is why I ask. But, knowing what systems they have that work good might help us out. It seems everyone here on the board that has a pc hooked up to the H31 has an issue. I can't se that many of us having crummy computers.

Don
watching closely