Originally posted by guitarman
There's light scatter out of the projector for the H30 & H31. Also a halo that projects on the ceiling from the lens. With the H30 the lens cap tames down the halo. I'll try the lens cap on the H31 later. When bringing up a 100IRE pattern brightness uniformity looks good corner to corner. Pixels look distinct also. But more distinct on the H31.

Light spill?? Is this common with sub $2000 DLP projectors? Is there also light spill from the H77? I would most likely have the the projector sitting on a table. But on the off chance that I do plan to ceiling mount my future projector I would like to know what kind of things I could be in for.

tom,

how would you rate the H31 in brightness compared to the NEC HT410 and the Benq PE5120?

i'm buying a projector soon but am in an apartment with all white walls/ceiling and am concerned about ambient light during the day. i like the H31's specs (particularly the 4x wheel because i see rainbows on the Benq PB6100) but am looking for the brightest option under $1500.

which one of the above 3 do you think is the brightest? or are there any other options that i'm missing?

thanks

The H31, it is very bright in econo but also the strong contrast makes things look even brighter. The more contrast the more you can see in various video's, whether they be dark movies or daylight movies. You can just see more, you know what I mean.
good luck

Mupi,

It seems you already have a 4805? Am I correct to assume that you are considering an H31? To replace the 4805?

If so, may I ask why?

Fleaman

Just from readings posts in this Forum, it seems the 4805, on average, has a longer lived bulb than does the Optoma projectors, h30 and, now, h31.

The bulb life of these projectors is most discouraging to a potential new buyer of a projector. Do the bulbs last longer, on average, on LCD projectors? Because of this bulb failure projectors will never go mainstream. Of course, there are other reasons for them never to go mainstream as well. But, I would say, this bulb 'problem' is something the companies involved must tackle.

Originally posted by fleaman
Mupi,

It seems you already have a 4805? Am I correct to assume that you are considering an H31? To replace the 4805?

If so, may I ask why?

Fleaman

one of the reasons Tom just mentioned. Better contrast. The spec is 3000:1 but that must be on/off contrast. So the contrast after calibration may be less. Dont know how less it will be.

Other reasons

Fan noise
Shorter throw (1.77 vs 1.64)
DVI .4805 has M1-DA so you need that adapter which is $45 or buy the
M1-DVI cable which is $99. For $45 I can get a decent DVI cable from parts express or better yet use the DVI-I cable that came with my DELL PC.
M1-DVI adapter or cable is not something you can get from the net. only infocus sells them and you are forced to buy that at ridiculously high price.

lower fan noise and shorter throw ratio works out well for me
as I have to table mount the PJ. It can get farther from me ans still
give the same size image as 4805 and will also be quieter. Even if all
other aspects are same I will be sold on these two.

More aspect ration options. Tom had mentioned that the image
can be moved all the way up so that there is no bar at the top for 2.35
So making DIY masking may be easier as I have to deal with masking only one side.

I was hoping H31 will have less light spill but looks like it has a lot of light spill.

I am not sure about customer service by optoma. I am able to easily reach Infocus support.

My main reason to change is not picture quality but other reasons. The black level on 4805 is very good and it will be hard to beat it by a significant margin. So I am hoping the non PQ related differences will be better on H31. Someone has to do a shootout (not just image comparison)

PS: If anyone does a shootout please look at all the non PQ related issues also. I am sure both the units will be very close in image quality. Most or all shootouts dont care about other issues. No one ever said that fan is loud on 4805 in the shootout. Only when you get it to your place you will see all such issues. Moreover what is loud to one is not the same to others. But looking at the number of people complaining about fan noise on 4805 and also 5700 and 7200 I guess fan noise is an issue and has always been an issue with Infocus products starting from X1.

If 4805 had a quieter fan I wouldnt bother to replace it until it died
because the PQ is just incredible after all the things I did to my room and screen. Just couldnt stand the fan.

Originally posted by guitarman
There's light scatter out of the projector for the H30 & H31. Also a halo that projects on the ceiling from the lens. With the H30 the lens cap tames down the halo. I'll try the lens cap on the H31 later. When bringing up a 100IRE pattern brightness uniformity looks good corner to corner. Pixels look distinct also. But more distinct on the H31.

Tom
silly question: When you say you are putting the lens cap on H31 to tame the halo what do you mean? Shouldnt the cap be off when the PJ is on unless you meant something else. I am sure you meant something else.

BTW is the fan exhaust at the front or rear

Originally posted by fleaman
Mupi,

It seems you already have a 4805? Am I correct to assume that you are considering an H31? To replace the 4805?

If so, may I ask why?

Fleaman

wanted to mention this. H31 does 2.35 cropping so that the image fills the 16:9 screen. Tom confirmed that it does for both regular and anamorphic 2.35 DVDs. I am also sold on this feature.

In movie industry or home theater industry this is considered unethical and all OAR (original aspect ratio) fanatics will throw stones at this feature. I dont care. I am tired of having to deal with the bars. The bars have significant effect on the perceived contrast. They tend to washout the image especially if the room is not ideal (white walls) as the light from the bars gets reflected back to the image. Ofcourse masking this will solve the problem but making a movable masking is not everybody's bread and butter and getting a $5000 electric screen is not an option. So I care less if I lose 1/8th of the image at the ends if I can watch everything (HD and DVD) filling the 16:9 screen. If it sucks I can always go back to OAR and think about a movable masking or give up HD and make a permanent 2.35 screen. It will take a while for HD to catch up. Right now there is not much program content in HD that is worth watching on a regular basis. The image quality and audio quality varies so much from channel to channel and it is annoying. So I might give up HD. Anyway that is besides the point.

I meant to say lens mask that comes with the H30, haven't tried it yet. Heat exhaust is from the front and is angled toward the right.

Mupi....

Ok, so essentially it's the fan noise on the 4805 that's the deal breaker.

I can understand 'cos I got a buzzer H30 that still buzzes! And it is annoying. After about 100 hrs on the bulb it now actually only buzzes for the 1st 30min to 1hr after firing up, so I tend to warm it up for at least 1/2 an hr before movie time. When the buzzing fades away (about an hour after warm up), it is very quite, just wish it didn't buzz at all. Sucks that I have to use up lamp hrs time just to pre-buzz the machine out. Also, this is the 2nd H30 I got that buzzes. Sometimes the buzzing takes 2 hrs to go away, sometimes just 20 mins.

While I wasn't the only one to get a buzzing H30, it seems like Optoma finally might of eliminated the buzzing problem as I haven't heard any complaints on these forums about it lately.

But like I said, when it doesn't buzz, it is very quite.

Fleaman

The H31 is using a higher output bulb. I don't think I've heard from anybody on buzzer problems with the later H30's. I've had it pretty good with my H30's, I've had two, no buzzers, no bulb problems.

Originally posted by fleaman
Mupi....

Ok, so essentially it's the fan noise on the 4805 that's the deal breaker.

I can understand 'cos I got a buzzer H30 that still buzzes! And it is annoying. After about 100 hrs on the bulb it now actually only buzzes for the 1st 30min to 1hr after firing up, so I tend to warm it up for at least 1/2 an hr before movie time. When the buzzing fades away (about an hour after warm up), it is very quite, just wish it didn't buzz at all. Sucks that I have to use up lamp hrs time just to pre-buzz the machine out. Also, this is the 2nd H30 I got that buzzes. Sometimes the buzzing takes 2 hrs to go away, sometimes just 20 mins.

While I wasn't the only one to get a buzzing H30, it seems like Optoma finally might of eliminated the buzzing problem as I haven't heard any complaints on these forums about it lately.

But like I said, when it doesn't buzz, it is very quite.

Fleaman

what is this buzzing you are talking about?
is it color wheel whining?

Well, it continues to look as tho the h31 will be priced around $300 street higher than the 4805. So, I guess, if that continues, the choice will be made easy for me. I sort of consider the 2 machines equal, on balance. The few problems with both seem to not be associated with the PQ, which is very good in both cases. It becomes a shame, when equal machines are priced apart by $200-$300..just not a level playing field, it seems. But then, it does make the final choice very easy.

I know that couple of hundred bucks is bothering you and it does seem odd with both msrp's being the same. Like I said, new product deal. Just forget it and buy the 4805.

Originally posted by Mupi
what is this buzzing you are talking about?
is it color wheel whining?

Well, it's been covered in the H30 thread a while ago....do a search on that thread (buzzing) and you should come up with it.

No one seemed to pin the buzzing cause down (including Optoma, or they would not admit to it). Some thought it was the pwr supply (like a transformer buzz) others thought it was the color wheel.

In any case, as noted, none of the later H30's seemed to have the problem.
My H30 seemed to come from a time period batch in which many got buzzers on. The 2nd H30 sent me buzzed also, and it seemed to have also come from the same batch.

Mine still does, although it goes away most of the time. Tonight it only took about 12mins to fade away....that's a record!

Fleaman

And I want to repeat, when mine doesn't buzz, it is very quite!

Tom. The problem is..2 dealers have h31 priced at $200 over suggested selling price. If $1299 is list, I would like to find several dealers at that price. Then, I would try to get $100 off.

I know the h31 is for home use and the EP 737 is for commercial use. The specs are about the same and the 737 is XGA. Prices are about the same. Warranty is 3 years on 737 if I read this right. Again, why would the 737 not be a good projector for the home?

Figures I should've waited 6 months always the way. Oh well I enjoy my H30

Originally posted by mangopony
2 dealers have h31 priced at $200 over suggested selling price. If $1299 is list, I would like to find several dealers at that price.
I can only find about two dealers that even list the H31, so I'm not surprised that the still list the old MSRP. I believe they originally listed it at $1499 but lowered it in response to the 4805 price cut. You can still find the 4805 listed for the old MSRP at many dealers (even several of the forum sponsors). Have you actually called any of the H31 dealers and tried negotiating a price and they refused to go below $1499, or are you just going by their web sites?

Without getting into pricing, dealer cost on the H31 is currently still based on the old MSRP. That's the problem for now.

Same thing happened with the SP4805 with the price cut - many dealers get caught holding the bag. Wait a month for the situation to resolve itself (assuming people buy the H31 at that price thus clearing out their inventory!)

Hey guys, you could get over the fact that the h31 has a screen door (mild one) and just revel in the deep black and enhanced colors. I got the little puppy going right now and I'm about 6' from the screen. If I think right I can bypass the screen door and enjoy the 3D. Not bad, not bad at all. I'm watching Replay TV Columbo's using the 1.66 4.3 aspect. The image looks good to me and is pretty large at 1.66.

You sit close, Tom, to the screen. I would sit about 15 feet from screen..a screen 7 foot wide. I just got back from movies..'Aviator'..good movie by the way..and sat next to last row in theatre. Going to the movies used to give you the best PQ..after HD at home, movies are no more the..best. Size..yes...quality..no! Theatres are gonna have to spend some big bucks to bring their quality of picture up to the best again..if they can. That is doubtful. In 10 years, movie theatres may be suffering big time.

Dealers will be getting the h31 in during first or second week of January, 05
They say that Optoma has made the price very unsure. The company wanted to get $1499 but realizes that is not possible with the pricing of an equal projector, the Infocus 4805. Possibly in a few weeks the price will settle at $1299. right now, dealers are asking $1499 for a product they do not have.

"right now, dealers are asking $1499 for a product they do not have."

lol, things will straighten out. The H31 is a super usefull projector. I used it all day mainly with the expanded 4.3 at 1.66 aspect. But I went to DVD and wathced a couple of movies. This machine is brighter than the H77 but still has the blacks and contrast. Just wait till this one gets filtered out to the masses, you'll see. :)

Dealers will be getting the h31 in during first or second week of January, 05

My distributor sent an email saying availability is now. I need to check on that. But yeah, as MikeSRC said, dealer pricing is based on $1499 MSRP for now.

and, at list of $1499, the Optoma becomes not a very good buy compared with the Infocus 4805. And, of course, the Infocus is discounted, rather sharply in some circles. I am sure the h31 is a fine machine just too bad about pricing.

Originally posted by guitarman
I can tell you i'm pretty close to max zoom at 14' back with a 92" wide screen. If I went to minimum zoom maybe I could mount the PJ 2 or 3 feet further back.

Does this mean screen size stays the same 92"wide at 16-17 feet? I would love to consider this projector if it could give me a longer throw. 106" diag is the largest screen my wall can display.

Would PQ diminish dramatically at let's say . . . 18 feet back? I might be able to live with a slightly diminished PQ if it saved me approx $1000 off the Panny 700. Any thoughts?

I have a dual-purpose living room/theater that has burgundy walls and is shielded from sunlight, and is kept pretty dark in general. I have a Benq 6100 that I've had for 11 months or so, that I watch HD, DVD's, and SD on. I've wondered if the 200 watt lamp that the Benq uses puts out the same lumens as the 200 watt lamp in a home theater projector such as the H31 or H30, and that the only difference is the 4 segment color wheel with white on the Benq and the RGB color wheels of home theater projectors. Anyone have any thoughts on this? If I'm using my Benq on a 16:9 screen in econo mode, which automatically cuts the 1500 spec'd lumens down to about 900 theoretical lumens, will I see a significant drop-off in brightness going from the Benq to say an H31 or 4805?

http://www.hometheatermag.com with the Benq6200 achieved 14.5ftL (ECO on) on a 87" wide. So cut your lumens estimate over half to 428 - business projectors lose significant brightness when calibrated to D65 (which requires turning off white segment). Reds are orange, greens are yellow, blues are pale

The H30 achieved 9.4-11ftL on the same screen depending on ECO mode. Greens are too deep, reds are less orange. This is about 277-325 lumens optimized D65.

I suspect they read off the screen - which may be why these numbers are lower.

HT Mag picked the Optoma H30 over the BenQ6200 based on image quality alone - though it is not as bright.

If you want to see how the Optoma H30 compares to the SP4805 (measured from projector lens not screen) read my review. The Optoma I measured 521, the Infocus I measured near spec at 644 lumens.

I would say that in a dark room like yours - brightness is not an issue - the difference will be unnoticeable except in direct comparison.

Stick to modest screen sizes and gain and you are fine with any of them. But only the true HT projectors will give you good color and contrast.

guitarman, hoping you can give me your opinion based on what you rememberd of the 4805. The fan noise between the 4805 and H31 and the 510. Which had the least noisy fan noise? I know you do no longer have the 4805/510 there to do side-by-side with the H31. I've seen the 4805 in person, in stores. In the stores' setups, I can't really hear the fan just as long there's other noise going on in the rooms. But one weird thing I noticed was that, they had a 7205 in a room next to it, and the fan on the 7205 was alot more noticeble. The room the 4805 was in was acoustically treated, I can tell the room is alot more dead than the room that the 7205 was in. Could the acoustics of the room has an effect on the fan noise of a projector also?

Originally posted by BlazeMaster
guitarman, hoping you can give me your opinion based on what you rememberd of the 4805. The fan noise between the 4805 and H31 and the 510. Which had the least noisy fan noise? I know you do no longer have the 4805/510 there to do side-by-side with the H31. I've seen the 4805 in person, in stores. In the stores' setups, I can't really hear the fan just as long there's other noise going on in the rooms. But one weird thing I noticed was that, they had a 7205 in a room next to it, and the fan on the 7205 was alot more noticeble. The room the 4805 was in was acoustically treated, I can tell the room is alot more dead than the room that the 7205 was in. Could the acoustics of the room has an effect on the fan noise of a projector also?

You probably saw those machines at Magnolia. I viewed both of these last week at Magnolia/Best buy in Walnut Creek/Concord area. Setups were poor, I didn't pay much attention to the sound.

The H31 and HT510 in econo are both extremely quiet. I might give a slight edge to the HT510. The H31 is more 3D and colors are nice, blacks are deep. The HT510 has the resolution advantage and colors are a step or two above from trying to use a presentation projector for home theater.

Haven't heard an H31 yet, but if it's the same or less noise than an H30, it's also less than the 4805. The HT510 is even lower than the H30. However, in eco mode, I find nothing objectionable about the noise level of the 4805. Unless you have very sensitive hearing or spend all your time watching movies of people whispering ;) , the 4805's slightly higher noise level would not affect my decision to buy one.

Same chipset, relative specs, etc. The price will stabilize at about the same as the 4805 pretty quickly. Optoma was just a little later getting to the dance with the DarkChip2 480p, but the playing field will be pretty level shortly, I'm sure.

Matter of fact, I'm recommending this PJ to some friends of mine in the market over my beloved 4805, simply due to the slightly shorter throw distance. They've got a hard & fast 13.5' wall-to-wall limitation to work with, so they want to maximize screen size.

Glad to see this product out; the competition will improve the breed. :)

nokker: I really doubt if the 2 projectors, 4805 and h31, sell for the same amount during the next 3 months. Besides, I am ready to buy in January and, as of now, the 4805 is 100's less than h31. Optoma is just marketing this very good projector in an unwise manner, in my opinion. When a good new product is released, they should hit the ground running!

mangopony, chill out, dude! It's almost like you're taking Optoma's pricing personally. Besides, I've already seen the H31 for $100 below old MSRP at a LARGE online vendor, I'd say you will see the new MSRP within the next couple of weeks. I'd have been a lot more excited about the H31 if they had also squeezed in a lens shift, but oh well.

chill out, dude???....It really doesn't matter to me which projector I buy; price will be the deciding factor as I consider, overall, both are very good projectors. And my statement stands about the company not handling introduction of a new projector very well. But, hey, we all see things differently here and that is definitely good.

Originally posted by mangopony
nokker: I really doubt if the 2 projectors, 4805 and h31, sell for the same amount during the next 3 months. Besides, I am ready to buy in January and, as of now, the 4805 is 100's less than h31. Optoma is just marketing this very good projector in an unwise manner, in my opinion. When a good new product is released, they should hit the ground running!

I would pay the $100 for the new aspect features alone. The 1.66 for 4.3 is great for standard TV or 4.3 dvd's. The 2.35 will delete bars for 2.35 movies. Plus the Panormaic 2.35 shift/memory feature. These are worth a bill to me.

BTW, the Optoma website lists the H31 at 30dB in "standard" mode, not in "economy" mode, which should knock it down another couple of dB at least.

Pretty darned quiet!

Originally posted by MikeSRC
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by gundyrat1
Don't you think Benq dropped the ball when using only a 5 segment 2xspeed wheel where as every other one in this price range and chip resolution is running a 6 segment 4x speed wheel?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, they're taking the same approach NEC did with the 410. It's a different design philosophy that yields some decent results, but I still prefer the color depth of 6 segment, 4X wheel as well.

Is this based on some prelim information? The specs on the Optima web site list the H31 as having a 4x 6-segment wheel.

http://www.optomahometheater.com/content/H31.asp

--Eric

EHHoffman

The BenQ and NEC do not have the 4x RGBRGB wheel - the Infocus/Optoma does. Methinks you misinterpreted....

Tom: and maybe worth a 'bill' to me but not $300! By the way, I will only be watching HD live sports and DVDs with projector. Will use my present plasma for 'normal tv' viewing. A National chain has an unbelieveable special coming up on 4805. And their 'warranty' is out of this world..really hard to believe..but is true. I double-checked it today with the company and have it in writing.

Originally posted by krasmuzik
EHHoffman

The BenQ and NEC do not have the 4x RGBRGB wheel - the Infocus/Optoma does. Methinks you misinterpreted....

DOH! BENQ, not Optima! No wonder it didn't make sense. :) That's what I get for trying to read this technical stuff after spending the last 10 hours writing code. I think it is time to call it a day.

--Eric

You're such a projector tease. :)
Are you talking about Costco? I just got back from there; they have a stack full of them at a sale price that expires mañana. Interesting...

bump

Originally posted by guitarman
The 2.35 will delete bars for 2.35 movies


Originally posted by guitarman
the Panormaic 2.35 shift/memory feature.

Tom
could you please elaborate these two features. I read the manual but I could not find much details about the aspect ratio features.

2.35, when viewing a 2.35 movie which has black bars above and below the 2.35 aspect feature will expand the image clearly and delete the bars, of course you lose some information due to the expanding, but the image is cleaner and more precise than if you used a zoom technique.

The Panoramic 2.35 will be leaving the 2.35 image intack and shifting the image up deleting the upper bar, them moving your screen up to delete the lower bar. To use this you need an adjustable screen or electric one.

A couple of shots of 2.35 shift deleting black bars.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/pano1.jpg

Lit room so you can see the screen outline, poor picture. :)
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/pano2.jpg

tom! is there any advantge to having a upscaling dvd player with the optoma being a480p machine also is there an advantage having a dvi player that will do 480p over dvi thanks

Originally posted by guitarman
2.35, when viewing a 2.35 movie which has black bars above and below the 2.35 aspect feature will expand the image clearly and delete the bars, of course you lose some information due to the expanding, but the image is cleaner and more precise than if you used a zoom technique.

The Panoramic 2.35 will be leaving the 2.35 image intack and shifting the image up deleting the upper bar, them moving your screen up to delete the lower bar. To use this you need an adjustable screen or electric one.

A couple of shots of 2.35 shift deleting black bars.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/pano1.jpg

Lit room so you can see the screen outline, poor picture. :)
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/pano2.jpg

Thanks for the screen shots.

was the screen moved up so that the lower bars are falling
on the frame and the brick.

generally the pull down screens only go all the way down and retract fully. They dont stay at any intermediate position right. May be in the case of electric screens they can be reatracted partially to account for different aspect ratios.

It may be tricky with a manual pull screen but they do stop in intervals. Not precise like and electric though.

Anyway looks pretty cool heh? You have a framed in 2.35 movie. The light spill does fall off the screen at the bottom but the blacks are so good it's hard to see it.

Originally posted by beam1
tom! is there any advantage to having a upscaling dvd player with the optoma being a480p machine also is there an advantage having a dvi player that will do 480p over dvi thanks

Yes there's no doubt everyone would want to use a DVI player with the H31. The signal is clean thru DVI the upscaling is there for you to decide on. Each resolution change has it's own appeal whether 480p, 720p, 1080i, even 854X480 which the Bravo has.

Originally posted by guitarman
It may be tricky with a manual pull screen but they do stop in intervals. Not precise like and electric though.

Anyway looks pretty cool heh? You have a framed in 2.35 movie. The light spill does fall off the screen at the bottom but the blacks are so good it's hard to see it.

yes for all the OAR purists who dont want a cropped 2.35 this is perfect. If the screen is on a black wall it would be even better.

It would be nice to see screen shots of the shifted 2.35 vs cropped 2.35. Ofcourse I cant make out any PQ differences from screen shots. it will just give an idea how bad the cropped 2.35 looks compared to full 2.35. Like I said before cropped 4.3 (to fill 16:9 screen) doesnt look bad at all. So as long as I have not seen the 2.35 version of the movie I probably wont find it an issue.


With a fixed frame screen making the lower mask is easy. Just attach velcro to the frame and attach the felt cloth. It may not look as pretty as the electric screen but cheaper alternative that works compared to the cost of an electric screen (over $2k).

These aspect ratio features would probably be the deal breakers between H31 and other 480p (darkchip 2) projectors at same street price and similar specs.

I am not sure how H31 is able to achieve a contract of 3000 with the same chip without any iris . Any idea how they are able to get 3000 and high lumens at the same time. HS51 compromises a lot on the brightness by closing the iris to get 6000:1 right?

hi tom i'm new to projectors but back in the spring i bought a zenith dvb-318 and was going to get a z2 but have not yet so my question is the h-31 is 480p so is there a reason to pass 720p or 1080i from advd player or would it be best to do dvi 480p its native resolution thanks you have some great screenshots btw is the screenshots native 480p or upscaled thanks again

The interesting thing is and we had a discussion on this recently, Alan started it. 1080i can look more colorful and sharper than 720p or 480p. The thing to do is test each signal to see what looks best to you. Whit my setup I choose 1080i for cable HD and 720p for the Bravo DVI player. The only reason I choose 720p is the pixel match the H77, although 1080i out of the Bravo looks excellent also.

"I am not sure how H31 is able to achieve a contract of 3000 with the same chip without any iris . Any idea how they are able to get 3000 and high lumens at the same time. HS51 compromises a lot on the brightness by closing the iris to get 6000:1 right?"

I figure the tested CR is going to be very high. This projector is very dark in black and super bright with whites. It even seems more 3D than the H77. I think it's the combo of the brighter bulb and the dimple fix/dark chip. We have a presentation designed light engine with the RGB/RGB wheel, brighter bulb/dark chip, it's a pretty good receipe for 3D. :)

so the screenshots are 720p out to h-31

Mupi,

Optoma's numbers for contrast ratio are not taken at the D65 color temperature. They are usually taken at the brightest (but bluest) white the box can produce usually 9500K-11000K.

You will need to wait for HT reviews aside from Tom's to get the real HT contrast ratio (unless he got ColorFacts back for Christmas - and thus starts reporting on the D65 contrast)

You can read HT reviews of the HT30 and extrapolate from marketed contrast improvement with the H31 to the expected HT contrast improvement. The Dark Chip2 should be a 50% contrast improvement - so indeed the marketing improvement of 2K:1 to 3K:1 is correct - just not for D65 white point.

First time poster! I've been avidly reading this thread and I'm liking the H31.

I've heard the general dislike for the BenQ color wheel thing, but does that rule it out entirely? I haven't seen anyone mention it in this thread. It's in the same price range and ProjectorCentral compares it favorably to the 4805.

When someone says the "throw ratio" of a unit is 1.77, what does this mean? Sorry for the newbie question. The follow up is: what is the throw ratio for the 5120?

Does 4805 also have the dimple fixed darkchip2?
Is the 2000 CR of 4805 at D65?

Originally posted by beam1
so the screenshots are 720p out to h-31

All of the screenshots are 480p, only the very last few which I added are with the Bravo thru DVI connection. I used the Bravo at 480p to match the projector, though 854X480 looked good also.

Mupi,
Yes and Yes.

In fact the DC2 is responsible for the increased SDE noted on the H31 and SP4805 compared to the H30. The removal of the dimple makes the entire pixel brighter, while the black lines between pixels are darker - even though they are thinner the increased contrast makes them more visible.

Infocus had an exclusive on the DC2 WSVGA which is why the competitors are just now coming out six months later. Infocus ScreenPlay products are consistent in specifying lumens at D65 and for the SP4805 using reference gamma. For the SP7205 contrast was bumped using white peaking which impacts gamma at bright whites. Read my review in my signature.

Note my demo unit was 10% less contrast than spec and it dropped another 10% after calibration. I just recently did calibration for a few customers and am achieving 2K:1 +/-10% for contrast. The H30 I did was 40% off contrast spec out of the box - the skill of the calibrator can make that +/-10%

If a projector is brighter in a non D65 mode without a reference gamma - I assure you marketing will use the better numbers even when they result in a worse picture. Some even go so far to measure contrast in the brightest mode to get white, and the darkest mode to get black. So don't put so much stock in marketed numbers - they are for the most part incomparable.

thanks tom for your info just left the higher end forum looking at your h-77 thread and those screenshots look good to but i think the h-31 really shines i dont believe for the money you could beat it until hi-def dvd arives would be the only reason i see to up grade to a higher resolution my opioin is only based on looking at screen shots but h-31 really looks good

The H31 is very 3D and It shows up in the screenshots. I don't think anyone has one yet, it sure would be nice to have some company and second opinions. :)

i will be getting one if i can find one at $1299.00 let us no when it's released thaks again for your help btw i dont have any hi-def wright now and i have over 300 dvd's so it will work till hi-def becomes a reality also i will not be jumping on the hi-def vhs band wagon i feel it's like going backwards just another way for the movie studio to get us to keep buying there movies but i will get hi-def dvd thanks lewis

I noticed in the H31 manual that there is a white peaking adjustment. The manual says "the white peaking control adjusts the white segment of the DMD chip." I believe that this is probably a carry-over from the H30 or something, since this projector is supposed to not have a white segment. My question is what would this white peaking adjustment do in a 6 segment color wheel projector, since it can't mean "leaving the white segment on longer"? Is it another control that just does what the brightness control does?

Thanks

This is off topic. But I guess is important to udnerstand the calibration.

I have never understood what color temperature in projectors or televisions mean

From what I understand a color temperature or correlated color temperature (CCT) of any object is the temperature of a perfect black body that has the same choromaticity or spectral energy as that of the object.

For example tungsten light has a CCT of 1800k.

Sun (surface) has CCT of 6000k but sunlight at different time has a different CCT due to refraction through the atmosphere. Early morning and sunsets are at some 3k. Normal daylight is 6500k (some say daylight is 5500k)

I also read that D65 means the object has a CCT of 6500. no?
somesay D65 and CCT 6500 are not the same.

Now what does all this color temperature mean in projector world.
When I pick 6500 in the menu what does it all mean. Also if 6500 is the CCT for daylight which is almost white (not bluish or reddish) then why do we talk about color at 6500k.

Originally posted by Stevvot
I noticed in the H31 manual that there is a white peaking adjustment. The manual says "the white peaking control adjusts the white segment of the DMD chip." I believe that this is probably a carry-over from the H30 or something, since this projector is supposed to not have a white segment. My question is what would this white peaking adjustment do in a 6 segment color wheel projector, since it can't mean "leaving the white segment on longer"? Is it another control that just does what the brightness control does?

Thanks

There's no white segment, white peak relates to the light passing through the area between the colors and very outer fringe of the color wheel.

What you'll see in real time is the white part of video will get purer white the higher you go on the white peak. Generally you need to find the area where white will crush out. I'll use a clouds scene with blue sky. If I set too high I can get posturing splotches in the white clouds. The H31 factory preset is at 2 on some signals with my PJ.

White peak will make for some better contrast but use the test I stated to make sure you're not going too high.

hey tom got any pixar titles that you could take some screenshots of with the h-31 if so it would help see colors thanks

Mupi,

D65 is a point in CIE color space. 6500K CCT is a line normal to the black body curve ranging from green to magenta. 6500K is a point on the black body curve. D65 is just slightly off that 6500K point on the curve.

The Optoma H30 has a 6500K preset that was close to 6500K CCT - but with respect to D65 pushes seriously magenta. Any serious reviewer will not report 6500K CCT (and I throw Stereophile AV in that group! - at least their sister HT mag gets it right)

Why talk about color at D65? Will if greys are not at D65 - they will appear colored. 9500K looks 30% bluer. Also the white balance determines where the secondary colors are.

White is a mixture of Red, Green Blue, then you drain Green leaving Red, Blue to mix Magenta. You should be able to draw a line in color space from Green, White to Magenta. So if 9500K is again used for White - Magenta is more bluish as well. Ditto for Cyan. This is why displays that are native 9500K have a red pushed video decoder - so that pink faces do not look sick.

You can see this for yourself on the SP4805 - put up a color bars signal and change the color temp. Watch the secondary colors get pushed (primaries do not change)

Think of it as watercolor painting on near white paper - the paper has an impact on colors.

guitarman,

I would not say that using white peaking creates a purer white. In terms of letting more of the natural white balance of the lamp thru sure, but the lamps used are not 6500K. So not only does white peaking blow out the gamma curve, it changes color temperature of peak whites as well. It does improve contrast by increasing peak brightness, at the cost of a natural image.

Originally posted by Mupi
Now what does all this color temperature mean in projector world.
The easiest way to visualize that might be with a computer monitor (provided it has color temperature adjustments). Bring up Notepad or anything else with a large "white" area. Then bring up the color temperature adjustment menu of your monitor and change it around between the various presets, and notice how it changes the nature of the "white" area--some settings make it appear bluer and more neon-like, others warmer and yellower, almost like a candle. It basically comes down to the mix of primary colors that is used to make the color "white". If you think of old B/W movies, they look a lot better when the white is more yellowish (I think they use 5600) than a neon white with a blue tinge.

my question was not about how to adjust them but what they are in projector/ television world.

Like I said when some one assigns a color temperature to an illuminating object it means that it is the temperature at which a black body emits the same color. They measure all those numbers and plot that CIE stuff. But I dont know how to interpret the CIE stuff and what the points in the plot mean.

So in short when people say d65 or 6500 in projector world what does it mean in a laymans language.


If you say the CCT of the projector is 6500k then if I go by the definition then it is the color emited by a black body at 6500k and this color happens to be just white. So what does all this mean. I dont I have the background to read a CIE plot and make any decisions. I guess a lot of people here probably wont know what it is and how to interpret CIE or color temperature.

So we need some color temperature 101 :-)

Color Science is certainly not easy! I am ISF trained - and still learning. Poynton's texts on color are a good starting point. Ch21 of Digital Video and HDTV explains CIE.

Originally posted by krasmuzik
guitarman,

I would not say that using white peaking creates a purer white. In terms of letting more of the natural white balance of the lamp thru sure, but the lamps used are not 6500K. So not only does white peaking blow out the gamma curve, it changes color temperature of peak whites as well. It does improve contrast by increasing peak brightness, at the cost of a natural image.

I'll see what happens next week when I get the colorfacts goodies. :) Can't wait. I'll push the white peak a little to see if it useful.

You know what today I picked up a classic TV show on DVD. Starsky & Hutch, Second season. I couldn't stand watching it on the H77 so I pulled it down and put up the H30. I love it in 4.3 native with shows like this. 120" diagonal, enormous and looking pretty good. The H30 still has the peak a boo screen door. It's quite noticeable over the H31, or less noticeable. :)

What I'm hoping for and I caught a hint that it may come to be, is a Dark Chip 2 in XGA w/6 color wheels. Ti Bring on the dimple fixes to XGA and I'm there.

JMO, die hard, huge sized 4.3 lover :)

Throw NECHT1200 onto the nameplate sounds good to me - sad to say but the market is demanding widescreen - so they better get it right next time and stop listening to you about those old TV shows and music videos ;-)

no no they should cover all bases. Actually NEC is ok now with the HT1100. What I want to see is the option with Ti making a 1024X768 Dark chip. From what I heard I think it's going to happen. There's plenty of realists that understand the place for high end classic video. :)

I'm not saying the non-baby boomers can't have their widescreen TV, just saying covering all the bases can be profitable also.

Can anyone (Tom, I guess) compare the H31 to the BenQ 5120?

Same chip one with the RGBWY color wheel the other the RGB/RGB wheel. Color saturation and quality of colors will be better on the H31. Most likely contrast is allot higher with the H31 also.

Originally posted by guitarman
Same chip one with the RGBWY color wheel the other the RGB/RGB wheel. Color saturation and quality of colors will be better on the H31. Most likely contrast is allot higher with the H31 also.

What about throw distance/ratio? Have you seen a 5120 work in person?

No but I did a review on the NEC HT410 which is the same animal. 854X480 dark chip with RGBWY colorwheel.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=466697

Comparing the NEC to the BenQ on ProjectorCentral makes them look very different. I'm not the expert here, but are they really the same?

Side note: just found the throw distrance calculator, very cool! Now I just need them to add the H31 to the list...

Same color wheel on BenQ/NEC. Similar design philosophy.

I don't think of Projector Central as experts myself.

Originally posted by guitarman
I'll see what happens next week when I get the colorfacts goodies. :) Can't wait. I'll push the white peak a little to see if it useful.


Hey Tom. OT, did you order Colorfacts? If so, which package?

Re: the NEC HT410 vs. BenQ 5120, Projector Central hasn't reviewed the 410 to my knowledge, but with the same chip and color wheel, there isn't likely a great difference between the two.

It's a buy back deal and the package is Colorfacts Pro 6000 with Tricolor meter and the One-eye meter, plus he added the carry case which is good because that's allot of good stuff for safe keeping. This is the week he's supposed to bring it by.

Well, am about ready to try out a projector. I can take it back if I choose to. I have come down to 3 projectors: low to high price: 4805, NEC 410, and Optoma 31. I saw a NEC 410 over week end and this is really a nice projector. If only Infocus could get heir projectors as quiet. And the NEC is very handsome as well. I still have no definite pricing on Optoma h31. Has anyone? Being the lowest priced, the 4805 is very hard to beat..or even tie.

..a question, please: The screens' bottom (on tripod) will be 24 inches from the floor. Little less than 4 feet for the screen (top to bottom) and about 2 feet of 'air' til you get to ceiling; this takes up the 8 feet from floor to ceiling. If I put the projector on a coffee table and the center of the lens is 24 inches from the floor (same as bottom of screen) will this give me a square picture on the 16 x 9 screen. Or should the projector be somewhat higher? We will be sitting about 6-7 feet behind the projector. The projector will be about 11 feet from screen.

Table mounted, there's usually an offset upward to the bottm of the image. IOW, if the projector's lens is 24" from the floor, the bottom of the projected image will be above that. Tom could tell you how much that is with the H31 and 410.

I expect to find out more about what's happening with the H31 pricing at CES on Thursday.

thank you, Mike. Have you had a chance to play with the h31 yet.

The H31 has about a 12" offset from 14' back. If you're a little closer ofcourse the offsett will be a little less, an inch or two maybe.

mangopony,

Tigerdirect has the H31 in stock.

thank you, Tom. About ready to pull the trigger on some $1200 projector. I believe there to be real value at that price level. I am convinced in 3 years a $1000 projector will be as good as a $3500 projector now..or at least very close in overalll PQ.

thank you, Steve. Will check it out.

Originally posted by mangopony
I saw a NEC 410 over week end and this is really a nice projector.
So you've seen both the HT410 and the 4805 in person, right? How would you compare the two, particularly the black level (if you had a chance to see them in a dark enough room)? I'm considering it or the HT510 as an alternative to the 4805/H31, particularly because of the lens shift (and the higher resolution of the 510), but Tom got me a bit concerned with some comments about black levels on these, particularly compared to the H31.

I did see them both recently but not fair to comment on either one. I saw them under different conditions. I really prefer to see projectors (even 480p) with the best content possible..HD live sports or a channel like DiscoveryHD Theatre or PBS. The NEC looks well built; seems strange we never hear much about it or other NEC products here. It is always Infocus or Optoma with Benq coming in 3rd. I am finding out it is very difficult to beat the 4805 under $1700. It is certainly the 'best value' projector on the market, in my opinion. It will do justice to excellent source material.

Originally posted by guitarman
The picture on the H31 is pretty incredible. The deep blacks that still show very good detail by the way added with the increased color saturation has it looking very much like the HD2+ with the dark segments color wheel. So if you view at a correct distance you'll get a smooth picture that's very 3D.

So what is the correct distance? Or better still, what is the minimum distance (as a multiple of screen width) at which pixels blend and SDE subsides?

Sounds like 2x is safe, but what would 1.5x look like?

I have a Optoma EP739 and while it's got the contrast subtlety of a freight train headlight, at 1.5x view distance (10' from a 80" wide 16:9 screen), it has a completely film like picture with zero SD/pixel effect.

Tom, is there a screen size calculator for the h31? I cant seem to find it on the optoma site. I have an 82" at about 12-13 feet. Im wondering if this would meet my throw requirements.I want a new PJ but I dont want to drill into my ceiling again if I dont have to!

Oh and sorry to ask so many questions at once but of the aspect modes does it have stretching and crop ability(like wide zoom) or is it just cropping when you select those modes...in other words can i stretch a 2.35.1 to fill my 16:9 screen with no bars at all.The lens shift thing is cool.

Originally posted by edgebsl
Tom, is there a screen size calculator for the h31? I cant seem to find it on the optoma site. I have an 82" at about 12-13 feet. Im wondering if this would meet my throw requirements.I want a new PJ but I dont want to drill into my ceiling again if I dont have to!

Optoma has a basic screen calculator here:
http://www.optomahometheater.com/content/calculator_index.htm

Assuming you meant 82" diag @16:9, your throw range would be 10.4' to 12.6'

--Eric

Originally posted by edgebsl
Oh and sorry to ask so many questions at once but of the aspect modes does it have stretching and crop ability(like wide zoom) or is it just cropping when you select those modes...in other words can i stretch a 2.35.1 to fill my 16:9 screen with no bars at all.The lens shift thing is cool.

Yes the added aspect modes will fill the screen at the least possible spot for losing picture content yet keep the image clean. This does a better job the using a typical zoom buttom. Same thing for 4.3 and over the air 4.3HD the aspects will enlarge 4.3 cleanly.

thanks guys!
Im in the range...even if I have to move the screen away from the wall a few inches. Im definitely considering this... I was thinking of waiting for new dlps to come out that are 1280x 720 to upgrade my x1 ,but looks like this one could offer some drastic improvements...aspect management,no overspill using a 16:9 screen,a little added brightness from the 150w to 200w bulb and 16:9 window. Plus the x1 is still worth a few hundred bucks used which may change over the next year or so.

tom! any new screen shots ?

Originally posted by guitarman
Same thing for 4.3 and over the air 4.3HD the aspects will enlarge 4.3 cleanly.

I'd love to see example screenshots of the 4:3 being stretched to fill the screen. Thanks in advance. :D

~ Kiran <entropy@io.com>

Originally posted by videmen
So what is the correct distance? Or better still, what is the minimum distance (as a multiple of screen width) at which pixels blend and SDE subsides?

Sounds like 2x is safe, but what would 1.5x look like?

I have a Optoma EP739 and while it's got the contrast subtlety of a freight train headlight, at 1.5x view distance (10' from a 80" wide 16:9 screen), it has a completely film like picture with zero SD/pixel effect.

I don't have the H31, but I do own a 4805 using the same DarkChip2 setup, so I'd say that the results would be similar.

Last night, I was watching "Band of Brothers" episode 7 on DVD @ 1.6x screen width (front of my couch was at 131" from a 92" screen, and my noggin was about 18" back from the front of my couch) and I thought it was overwhelming.

If I look for SDE/pixelation, I can find it. At this distance, though, I am pretty heavily immersed in the subject matter & don't even notice it. Every so often, during a snowy white scene, I can see some SDE in a bright white background, but it doesn't bother me. Other people, it might drive 'em nuts. It is a very subjective thing.

FWIW, I've got about 20/15 or better vision in both eyes, and haven't de-focused the 4805 to soften the SDE as I like the sharp picture.

Your mileage may vary.

a question from someone with a h31. From the backside is there lite spill? There does not seem to be any from the 4805. We will be sitting about 5-6 feet in back of the projector which should be around 2 feet off the floor.

Originally posted by entropy
I'd love to see example screenshots of the 4:3 being stretched to fill the screen. Thanks in advance. :D

~ Kiran <entropy@io.com>

I'll see what I can do. For 4.3 you would prefer the expansion that still keeps bars on the sides, the bars will be small, less than half the normal size. Figures in the image are much larger, logo info well visible. For 2.35 movies you could use the 2.35 aspect which eliminates the bars at the least possible point.

One of those low priced electric screens would be even better, you could use the 2.35 shift memory feature and keep the video intact with no bars. That screen is only a couple of hundred bucks over a low priced pull down model.

According to the PC Nation web site, they're selling the H31 for $xxx shipped.

Newbie question: (a) where's the best place to get the AVIA test disc and (b) does it help at all with setting up/testing a normal CRT TV?


[edited out the price - sorry!]

Originally posted by cbp2
According to the PC Nation web site, they're selling the H31 for $xxxx shipped.


I ordered the H31 from PCNation yesterday morning. In about 10 minutes they charged my CC and the status indicated it was on the warehouse ready for shipping so I was a happy man. Later on the day the status changed to backordered...

They called me this morning and told me that the H31 is out of stock and they don't currently have an ETA for it. So I cancelled the order. It's a pity because is the best deal around for the H31, but... since they don't have it on stock.

Now I'm debating myself among: H31 (about $200 more around), the Infocus 4805 or any other stuff with 4x, 16:9 and DVI. The NEC HT510 is a tempting option, but according to some reviews the rainbow is quite noticeable. The BenQ PE5120 seems to be on the same boat. Any other option I could have missed? suggestions?

Please do not discuss pricing.

Thanks,
Kyser

alcorn: check your pm.

Price search websites are a wonderful thing, but be careful about just going for the lowest price on projectors, especially from computer resellers that don't have a clue about them. Also, check return policies before you buy.

cbp2 -

Mentioning reseller pricing other than MSRP is forbidden on the forums, so please don't state websites and their prices or the moderators will close this thread.

Originally posted by MikeSRC
cbp2 -

Mentioning reseller pricing other than MSRP is forbidden on the forums, so please don't state websites and their prices or the moderators will close this thread.

I edited my post and removed it.... sorry about that.

I went and read the rules on this, and the reason for the rule. Personally, I don't like the rule or agree with the rule, but I'm not paying the bills, so I guess I have to abide by the rule.

Another new darkchip projector with a 6 segment, 5x colorwheel, is the Toshiba MT200, at about the same price as the H31. I haven't seen any reviews on it yet, though.

Originally posted by Stevvot
Another new darkchip projector with a 6 segment, 5x colorwheel, is the Toshiba MT200, at about the same price as the H31. I haven't seen any reviews on it yet, though.

Yes, that one seems to be on the same league. You can see some comments on this forum. Also there're some favorable european reviews around.

I would like to see some screenshots though. The 5x/6 segment colorwheel looks good, but probably the brightness won't be too high. The price seems to be slightly higher than the 4805 and the H31.

TOM!
Guess your busy tonight doing screenshots for us haven't heard from you tonight gotta keep this thread going thanks BTW gotta whole lotta screensshots to go to catch up with the H-30 thread please keepem comin

Sri I was busy with another new TV. :) it's just nuts isn't it? lol My wife see's me milling around behind the TV's changing wires and who knows how many time she's had to listen to the Avia Intro, know what I mean. insane

I'll put the H31 though it's paces again actually I have the H30 up right now and I was catching up on some giant 4.3 viewing. I got Sienfeld for Xmas and it's a kick at 120".

Tom: Could you please tell me about colorwheel and chipset in NEC ht510?

It's RGBWYellow at two times, there will be more rainbows but if you're not prone to them it would be ok and it was for me. They use an all in one chipset from Ti that does very well.

Damn, nothing is perfect, is it!...

If only Optoma, Infocus, or someone would come out with a 576p competitor to the NEC HT510 with the same lamp, colorwheel, and other specs as the 4805 or H31!

Originally posted by Stevvot
Another new darkchip projector with a 6 segment, 5x colorwheel, is the Toshiba MT200, at about the same price as the H31. I haven't seen any reviews on it yet, though.

it just came out at CES.

They also have MT700 which is 720p for MSRP 3499. I dont expect such a cheap 720p HD2+ PJ to be any good. MT800 is HD2+ at MSRP 6499 it has better lens (Zeiss) and other goodies. get what you paid for.

these days every sub 1500 DLP pj is rated at 2000 CR and 1000+ lumens. These specs have no meaning at all unless someone actually measures those numbers after calibrating. The marketing dept. can put anything they want as they always have a disclaimer that they can change the specs anytime.

Soon there will be as many PJ's as there are cereals in the grocery store. Who knows if all the fiber contents they have are accurate unless they are tested in a lab. Same analogy holds good for PJ's :-)

one good thing is that with more 720p DLP's coming at lower price, the lower end might be pushed further and we could have units like 4805 or H31 for much lower than 1k. Then fan noise wont be a big deal :-)
Most probably in the next CES (Fall), infocus might have a new low end unit. They just released SP7210 so they may not have one more 720p
but people are talking that it could just be those thin RPTV's and no more PJ's

I would really like to know more about the build of the H31. I already purchased an H30 and after about 20 days it would only run for about 20 minutes before shutting down due to overheating, and the room temp was about 70 degrees. I want to know, did they improve the build quality of the h31? A lot of people have had problems with the H30. I love(d) the picture of the h30 but i'm afraid of going optoma again without some reassurance. What is the comparison on real world bulb lifes for the h31 and the 4805? I've narrowed it down to one of them. How much longer would the 4805 bulb probably last me? I know a lot of people are only getting about 1000 hours out of their h30. Has Optoma fixed this problem with the h31?

Tom,
Have a DVD player with HDMI out. Will DVI adapter for the H31 effect performance? And what pj settings do you recommend with this set-up? Talking just DVD movie output here...no HD.

I could be wrong and have not seen the h31 but, I would think, the built quality would be about same as the h30 as the 2 models have not really changed that much. The downside on the Optoma seems to be the life of the bulb and the downside on the 4905 seems to be the fan noise. And the downside on the NEC 510 seems to be the colorwheel. The 510, by the way, can be had for very good prices.

Originally posted by mangopony
I could be wrong and have not seen the h31 but, I would think, the built quality would be about same as the h30 as the 2 models have not really changed that much. The downside on the Optoma seems to be the life of the bulb and the downside on the 4905 seems to be the fan noise. And the downside on the NEC 510 seems to be the colorwheel. The 510, by the way, can be had for very good prices.

That summarizes my fears too. I'd add to this list the Toshiba TDP-MT200 (Tom, have you tried/seen this one by any chance?) in the same range of $1000-$1500.

Personally I would discard the HT510 because of the rainbows, and I would buy the 4805 right now if it weren't for the ~50% higher noise than the other models. On paper the H31 looks the best of the gang, but the problems reported on the H30.... And finally I would like it be closer to $1000 and save some money for a replacement bulb.

Seems like a compromise must be made.

Guitarman,

I just PM you.

Thanks
Copter

Originally posted by Geoffz
Tom,
Have a DVD player with HDMI out. Will DVI adapter for the H31 effect performance? And what pj settings do you recommend with this set-up? Talking just DVD movie output here...no HD.

It's a sturdy small one piece adaptor not like something with a wire between two connectors. Should be fine.

alcorn: Just checked specs on Toshiba mt200..seems about same as 4805. I could not find the noise spec..something around 27-28 is very good, the best spec I have seen on a projector is 25db. I am sure the 4805 must be over 30db; the h31 being quieter. Now, if I could be reasonably sure of the bulb lasting..let us say 1500 hours; for me, that would be about 1 1/2 years. But I am not reasonably sure. I have listened for the noise level of 4805 several times but not entirely in a quiet room. Seems as if Infocus sees specs of other manufacturers are less than 28db, why not buy that fan assembly. I know, it probably costs a little more money. But you can not be talking much money here. And they would sell more projectors to off set added cost. Except for noise level, I would have bought a 4805 several weeks ago. I do like 'silence' with my viewing and listening. By the way, the Toshiba mt200 is several hundred dollars more than 4805 and h31 so that wipes that projector off my short list if it was ever on there.

So, it seem, it comes down to the 4805 and the h31. Accept the noise of the Infocus which is a known or take a chance of the quieter Optoma and keep fingers crossed on the lasting ability of the bulb. Nothing is easy!

H31 also has more adjusted lumens according to people who have seen both.

What is the consensus concerning 4:3 movies/using HTPC/surfing the web using a 4:3 screen? Is the H30 better for this or the H31?

timctx. I realize the specs vary somewhat on the 4805 and the h31 but, overall, I am calling them about equal on pg on the screen. I readily admit I have not seen the h31 in action. I would buy the h31 Iand may still do so) if only I did not have doubts about the life of the bulb. And I know there could be problems with bulbs on all projectors. It just 'seems' there is more problems with the bulbs that come with the Optoma. This may or may not be true. I am just trying to gain all the info I can before buying a projector.

mangopony, maybe the reason for the bulb problems on the optoma's is due to the quieter fan not pulling enough air through the unit and sufficiently cooling the bulb. Just a theory I've seen brought up by others.

smithfarmer: It could be, I suppose. But, then I have seen projectors with equal or lower db numbers than h30 and they do not 'seem' to have the early bulb failures that Optoma has. Or, maybe, we just do not hear about them. I do not really have any idea that bulb failures are related to db numbers.

Originally posted by mangopony
I do not really have any idea that bulb failures are related to db numbers.

With that being said, how relevant are db #'s in regard to air movement.
Can a super quiet fan move large amounts of air ?

My 4805 is mounted 18' 5" from the screen wall and my second row of seating is directly under it, and sitting in the right seat of a row of three(the fans vent side), at an ear level distance of 60 " below the PJ and I can honestly say, that I have never noticed it and have asked friends if they hear the fan and they reply with a confused look and say what fan.

Then again, if I remember correctly, you do plan on table mounting yours.

Before I got mine ceiling mounted in a different room, I had it a 1.5' behind my couch on a pedestal 2' above the seat (tilted to make up for the offset) and 11.5' from the freebie screen they give you, the very first time I used it, when the movie started (Master and Commander), the fan noise did not even enter my mind.

I've ran the projector on high mode before I had it mounted, to watch a movie and see the difference in brightness, not that much of a difference in brightness, but the fan was definitely much louder and I would find the noise objectionable.

smith farmer: So, for you, the fan noise has been a non-problem. With me the projector would be sitting on a low table some 6 feet in front of viewers. Without any audio or other sound in room, would not want to hear the fan on low mode. The projector would also be some 2-3 feet lower than viewers (and 6 feet in front of them) toward the screen. Some people say the fan is quite noisy so, just perhaps, the level of sound (noise) coming from the fan varies somewhat in a given setting. However, the spec number is 5-7 db louder than some other projectors.

in viewing fans of different sorts (fans in general here) it seems the most important factor in quietness is how the fan is mounted; the isolation provided (mounts); some even have loud fan motors. It seems the more quality build into the fan, the less noise which, of course, makes sense.

So, of course, if I could eliminate the 'noise' factor, I would go ahead and buy the 4805. Afterall, it is the cheapest of the 2-3 I am considering.

Over the weekend, I have to take down the PJ to do the firmware update and what I can do is pull out my trusty Radio Shack sound level meter and do a test for you trying to simulate your setup.

Now if I can just remember where I put that thing.

smithfarmer: Hey, I would appreciate that. In a quiet room, please check out at what distance you can hear the fan; and be as critical as you can. Bottom line, you are happy with the 4805, I take it. At 2.5 times width of screen, how does HD content look? I would be viewing mostly HD (live sports) and a few DVDs. my screen would be no more than 80" width. Going with a larger screen than this, pq drops of gradually to my eyes. And that makes sense, of course.

No problem. My hearing may not be as acute as yours :D

Not setup for HD yet. I'm still weighing my options. One thing I can say though , is that after viewing a 76" diagonal image in one room and then bringing the PJ into a different room to see a larger 123" diagonal image, I could never go back to the smaller screen. I feel I would be missing out, even if I might be taking an ever so slight hit in picture quality by going to a 107" wide screen.

As noted, I am between those 2 extremes at 92 inch dia. I have compared a number of screens and that seems about right for me. As you undoubtly know, you have 3 options for HD. Satellite tv (I have Directv), cable, and over the air from your local network stations. The later being the best (and cheapest) and, on the whole, satellite tv second. Cable systems can vary widely in quality, programming, and cost. And many, at this point in time, do not have HD. I will add, cable companies at their best can look very good in HD.

Has anyone here checked out the Mitsubishi HC100U? I just recieved a price quote and it is the same price as the infocus 4805, much below retail. I got the quote by asking for one on projectorcentral.com. Check out the specs and info on this unit. I would like to know other people's experience with dependability with Mitsubishi projectors. This projector is brighter than either the h31 or the 4805, has a no filter sealed build (big plus in my book), same contrast and resolution (guessing it's a darkchip2). The fan noise is the same as the h31, very good. And it's supposed to be well calibrated. If anyone has information on Mitsubishi projectors please let me know. I also don't know the colorwheel speed for this projector. If anyone knows please let me know.

Here's the link on the Mitsubishi:

http://www.mitsubishielectric.com/news/2005/PVS%20HC100U%201-4-05.html

Looks promising, especially the sealed light path. Now my projector decision just got even harder...

doing some more research for myself and everyone else. I called mitsubishi and spoke to a representative who called the engineering department to get this info for me. the fan noise is 33db. Now here's the sad part. He said the color wheel was 2x 7200rmp. Really bums me out. I was pretty set on getting this projector if it was a 4x color wheel. Guess it's back to buying a trusty 4805 for me. To me for the image difference between the h31 and 4805 doesn't justify the extreme difference in dependability of the two. Make your reliability better Optoma and I'll be your customer. Till then.....

dj. When you say same price as the 4805, I realize you are talking list priceon the Infocus ($1299). Are you also talking list price on the Mit?

I beleive 33db on the Mit maybe be higher than on the h31.

Seems there is no beating the 4805 at its' price. I am thinking most manufacturers are wondering what the next inexpensive Infocus will give us.

well Tom i ordered the optoma h-31 today let you know what i think of it monday or tuesday when it arrives thanks for your help

For the price on the Mitsubishi i was comparing the actual street price given to me and the street price of the 4805. The Mit, was only $25 more. The prices I was quoted were very very good. PM me if you would like to know more about how to get them from an authorized dealer at an incredibly low price.

on the fan noise, yes that is higher than the h31. I still would have went for it if it just had a 4x color wheel. I just sent back an h30 due to it being defective after 20 days. But during that time I loved the picture but I did see a rainbow once in a great while. Not a problem, but I think it would be with a 2x color wheel. Oh, the Mitsubishi rep said the throw ratio was 2.4 to 2.5. I don't really understand throw ratios but that is a lot different than the other projectors i've been looking at I think. Not sure. Any help on that one?

djholtz,

throw ration exlanation:

http://www.theprojectorpros.com/learn.php?p=theater_aspect_throw_ratio

I guess we have discussed this projector before here..Optoma 737. It is brighter than h31 and contrast just a shade less. Iit is 1024 x 768. I realize it is basically a biz projector but these specs are very good. I presume the colorwheel is not so advanced. It is close to price of h31. I believe it has a 3 year warranty.

Originally posted by djhotz
Oh, the Mitsubishi rep said the throw ratio was 2.4 to 2.5. I don't really understand throw ratios but that is a lot different than the other projectors i've been looking at I think.

What are the "throw ratios" of the H31 and 4805, for comparison? I'm assuming higher throw ratio means a shorter throw distance - ie, for a given screen size, a higher throw ratio lets you get the PJ closer to the screen. Conversely, for a fixed distance from the screen, a higher throw ratio will produce a larger picture. Right?

Anyone see the H31 at CES? If so, can you share your comments?

Tom...Can you post your Avia set-up with this pj?

I see lots of people complaining about Optoma quality. How bad is it? Is it true of all their product or just the H30? Do we have any reports on the H31?

That new Mitsubishi sounds really nice. Anyone know if/where it's available?

..seems..another one to check out is LG Model 91 and Model 92. Check another thread for info

Originally posted by cbp2
I see lots of people complaining about Optoma quality. How bad is it?

I own an H30 and am just as concerned about bulb life as anyone else. No problems yet thankfully. Personally, I think the "bad Optoma quality" vibe is blown way out of proportion. There are a dozen or so people on this forum having real problems, but we don't have any idea of what the real numbers are in relation to the actual number of units out there. Without that, it's difficult to condone a sweeping generalization that Optoma has poor quality.

Mike

Very well said Mike....

jolson. And, to a point, I agree. But doubt still lingers for a first time buyer, you know. Afterall, there are probably more 4805's sold than h30's and I have not seen many notes on bulbs going out in weeks or 2-3 months. True, there is a higher noise level on the 4805 and I know there is no perfect projection; especially at $1200. The thing that bothers me most is that, according to some here, Optoma has not been very quick with any kind of a response to this matter. I want to like Optoma h31, believe me, because of the lovely colors. But I can not afford buying bulbs once a year or less if this is a possibility. I would only put 1000 hours per year on projector but would expect it to last 2 years with original bulb.

If someone could only check out the bulbs on the h30 and the h31 and see if they are from same manufacturer. I believe the h31 has a higher wattage but this is beside the point. I would feel more confident if the 2 bulbs were not made by same manufacturer. Then, again, I know something else could be causing bulb to burn out sooner than it should in some cases. Perhaps, it is getting too hot..not enough ventilation or 'fan power'.

Originally posted by mangopony
The thing that bothers me most is that, according to some here, Optoma has not been very quick with any kind of a response to this matter.

I do agree with you. I work as a Quality Manager and know the importance of quick response to QC issues. If my company were silent to complaints we wouldn't have any customers left! Optoma's silence is not a good sign, or a good business practice.


Mike

is the bulb problem only on the h-30 in the optoma line i ordered my h-31 yesterday hope they fixed the issues

beam 1. I am down to deciding between the 4805 and h31. The so called bulb problem makes me hestitate on the h31, so far. Hey, my best to you. You certainly chose the projector for lovely, vivid colors and low noise. And the other specs are right up there as well. Good luck on that bulb! Let us know how you like the h31 after you get it, ok?

i also chose it because it has a shorter throw for my room. if it will last 2YRs iplan on upgrading to hi-def. BTW the optoma has a decent waranty 2YRS 90 days bulb hopefully if itis defective it will show up before then. 2YRS no dead pixels plus i got a good deal on the unit.

Originally posted by cbp2
What are the "throw ratios" of the H31 and 4805, for comparison? I'm assuming higher throw ratio means a shorter throw distance - ie, for a given screen size, a higher throw ratio lets you get the PJ closer to the screen. Conversely, for a fixed distance from the screen, a higher throw ratio will produce a larger picture. Right?

throw ratio is distance/width

4805 has 1.77 at full zoom. so at 10 feet the image width is
10/1.77 = 68 inches.

shorter ratio means bigger picture at shorter distance (closer to screen)

a shorter ratio with a wider zoom range gives more flexibility of placement.

4805 does not have this luxury. It is meant to be ceiling mounted or shelf mounted. people argue that it is perfect for the 2x viewing distance. I disagree. By having a shorter ratio and a wider margin in zoom they can still accomadate different needs. I need a shorted throw because I cant ceiling mount. it has to be coffee table mounted and due to noise it has to be atleast 4-5 feet away. So I need some 68 width at 8.5 feet. I would still be sitting at 2x distance. H31 ratio is not that much lower. I guess it is like 1.64 at max zoom if I remember correctly. but as it is quieter it might workout.

so if you are building a new house make sure your rooms are longer than usual :-) so that you can either do ceiling/shelf mount or table mount no matter what PJ you buy.

Originally posted by Mupi
throw ratio is distance/width

4805 has 1.77 at full zoom. so at 10 feet the image width is
10/1.77 = 68 inches.


68in diagonal or actual width?

Originally posted by mjolson
I own an H30 and am just as concerned about bulb life as anyone else. No problems yet thankfully. Personally, I think the "bad Optoma quality" vibe is blown way out of proportion. There are a dozen or so people on this forum having real problems, but we don't have any idea of what the real numbers are in relation to the actual number of units out there. Without that, it's difficult to condone a sweeping generalization that Optoma has poor quality.

Mike

Good point, FYI they were selling over 1,000 per month and more in the later months. That's 120,000 or so. :) Of course not all the owners keep posting on the internet. Allot of the people that were here in this thread just take off and watch TV. :)

Originally posted by beam1
well Tom i ordered the optoma h-31 today let you know what i think of it monday or tuesday when it arrives thanks for your help

Hey Partner! It will be just you and me with the H31. It's about time the dealers started getting some.
lmk

Originally posted by mangopony

If someone could only check out the bulbs on the h30 and the h31 and see if they are from same manufacturer. I believe the h31 has a higher wattage but this is beside the point.

Perhaps, it is getting too hot..not enough ventilation or 'fan power'.

Mangopony, don't you think that a higher watt bulb is going to burn at a higher temp ? If this is true, then the quieter fan(the same from the H30 ?)
might not be able to cool it off sufficiently,thus leading to an even higher bulb failure rate.

Don't forget that you will more than likely have to get the H31 properly calibrated, unlike the 4805 which comes almost perfectly calibrated right out of the box according to Krasmuzik in his reviews of both these projectors. If I remember correctly, he said the optoma line is known for not having their PJ's calibrated properly.

But who knows, maybe Optoma got it right this time, only time will tell.

Originally posted by guitarman
Good point, FYI they were selling over 1,000 per month and more in the later months. That's 120,000 or so. :)

Wow. I didn't realize they had been selling the H30 for ten years.
That's what they would have to do in order to acheive those numbers :D

oops Tom mixed up his cigar sales with projector sales ;-)

Originally posted by smithfarmer
Wow. I didn't realize they had been selling the H30 for ten years.
That's what they would have to do in order to acheive those numbers :D

Whoops knock zero's off of that stat.

smithfarmer. Your thinking (logic) makes sense. And I am beginning to think it is something beyond the bulb, itself, that is causing pre-mature burnouts. The problem is obvious here: I want to buy before Super Bowl (even for a few playoff games). Can not wait around for several months to see how the bulb situation is on the h31. Until proven otherwise, I take it for granted the bulb failure rate will be about same on h31 and h30. You can figure no other way at this point. As you said, time will tell, but I do not want to wait around for that..time....Take a chance of the h31 or go with a known situation on 4805..too loud of a fan. ..or consider a new option like LG Model 92.

Hey, Tom..it seems you can now buy from several dealers online who have the h31 in stock.

Originally posted by mangopony
..or consider a new option like LG Model 92.

And who knows when that model will make it to the market here in the US.

Hello,

is it possible to upgrade the firmware of the H31 (known as h30A in Europe) by ourselves and not sending it to optoma?

thx

Are you sure we're talking about the H31? It's so new and everything it needs is already onboard. I wouldn't think it need any firmwares. The engineer here in the states said to always expect PAL tuned models to be two months down the road after the first release of the NTSC models. If you're seeing an early demo of the H31 over there it may just be so dealers could get a quick look at it. I don't think it will be ready for PAL prime time just yet.

Firmwares for the Optoma line are usually always done at the factory.

For anyone who's interested this is the press release from optoma for the H31.

Press Release

Press Contact: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Joseph Kilmer
FutureWorks for Optoma
408-428-0895 Ext. 113
joe@future-works.com

New Optoma H31 Digital Projector Combines Performance and Value for Home Theater Enthusiasts

H31 features advanced DarkChip2 DLP technology by Texas Instruments for an incredibly bright, detailed and lifelike movie/TV experience

LAS VEGAS, CES, Jan. 6, 2005 – Optoma Technology, Inc. is introducing the successor to its 2004 CES Innovation Award winning H30 digital home theater projector. Available for under $1,499, the Optoma H31 projects HD video with astounding depth and clarity. The H31 features Texas Instruments’ DarkChip2™ DLP™ technology, which brings TV programming, DVDs and streaming video to life, delivering native widescreen projection at 3000:1 contrast. Optoma is exhibiting at the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in Las Vegas (January 6-9, 2005), at the Optoma booth located in the South Hall section 1, #20538.

The H31 is designed and priced for a wider audience, combining a movie theater-like experience with value – without compromising performance. The H31 features a Pixelworks video scaler, deinterlacer, and advanced HD scaling, which significantly optimizes video processing and frame-by-frame smoothness to unleash every aspect of the video as it was intended to be viewed – with any size from 28 to 304 inches.

H31 includes some new advanced functions that give the viewer the ability to tune the image to match the screen. These functions can address issues such as artifacts appearing on one or several of the edges of the image or the need to remove the bars that appear above and/or below or at the sides of the projected image. These tools are a tremendous asset when dealing with such small imperfections that may cause irritation and greatly detract from the enjoyment of a movie or other visual experience. There is no other projector on the market in this price range that provides such a complete set of tools to fine tune the image to the screen. Furthermore, these settings can be stored in memory.

“The H31 is the latest in our family of affordable, high performance digital home projectors that are bringing the movie theater experience into the living room,” said Harvey Horrocks of Optoma Technology. “Following on the award-winning H30, the next generation H31 delivers an even more impressive and realistic video experience, gripping viewers with an amazing spectrum of colors and unbelievable vibrancy – at a price that won’t break the bank.”

The H31 is HDTV compatible with 720p, 480p widescreen (854x480), 1080i and DVI with HDCP output for maximum clarity. The 850 lumens and four-speed, six-segment color wheel ensures superior color reproduction with deeper, richer blacks, detailed nuances, and a full palate of bright colors. The included adjustable color matrix allows viewers to adjust reds, greens and blues independently for a truly customized experience.

Specifications:
Display Type: 0.54-inch DarkChip2™ DLP™ technology from Texas Instruments
Resolution: 480p (854 x 480) native
Brightness: 850 Lumens (typical)
Contrast Ratio: 3000:1 (Full On/Full Off)
Lamp Type/Life: 200-watt P-VIP lamp
2,000 hours (BriteMode™)
3,000 hours (STD)
Throw Ratio: 1.65:1 – 2.0:1 (Distance/Width)
ZOOM Presets: 1.85:1, 1.66:1, 2.35:1, 4:3, 16:9
(Aspect Ratio)
Image Size: 28 to 304 inches
(diagonal)
Projection: 3.9 to 39.4 feet
Distance
Compatibility: SVGA, VGA, SXGA compression,
VESA, Macintosh, Full NTSC/PAL/SECAM
HDTV: 720p, 1080i, SDTV (480i), EDTV (480p), 576i/p
Projection Lens: F/ 2.4 to 2.7, f =19.7 to 23.6 mm
Manual focus and zoom
Refresh Rates: 15.75 to 68.70 kHz Horizontal,
43 to 85 Hz Vertical
I/O Connectors: DVI-I with HDCP, RCA Component (YPbPr)
S-Video, composite video (RCA), RS-232, AC Power, IR receivers


I find the pricing curious, available for under $1499. So, it would seem the MAP or MSRP is $1499.



Hi Tom,

it looks like it's the same...

hifissimo.com

What do you think?

I wonder..anyone who has a Optoma h30..could you check and see if you have same type of bulb, (of course, I know the wattage will be less). On h31, it says '200-watt P-VIP lamp'. If I buy this h31, I would be feeling better if it had a different type bulb aboard. I realize the bulb on the h30 may be sound and it is lack of ventilation, or lack of proper cooling, etc. that is causing the early burn-outs.

By the way, consumer pricing on the h31 is coming 'very close' to pricing on the Infocus 4805. This makes sense because, on the whole, they are very close in overall quality and PQ.

Man, this H31 has really left an impression on me. A real over performer. I hope it proves dependable as the image is top notch. I personally prefer it to the Toshiba MT8 I've had for a while, well at least for DVDs. I'll post a few HD screen shots of the NFL weekend tomorrow.

Ben: I will be watching mostly HD content on my yet to be purchased projector so do let us know how HD content is on the h31. And the h31 is completely quiet at 6-7 feet from a person, yes? There are 2 speeds to fan, yes? How is noise level at higher speed?

Originally posted by cbp2
I see lots of people complaining about Optoma quality. How bad is it? Is it true of all their product or just the H30? Do we have any reports on the H31?

That new Mitsubishi sounds really nice. Anyone know if/where it's available?

Well, in my opinion it's not consistent. And when it comes to QC, it's all about consistency. You can read about the H77 and in those threads there were problems too....mainly with it not being ready for PAL, yet released in PAL markets anyways.

The H31 is not out in enough #'s to tell for now. Like the H30 when it 1st came out, your looking at maybe 2-3 more months of feedback on these forums before you can get an idea of the H31's QC consistency.

Back when I got the H30 (April last year), it buzzed (louder than the fan). Optoma had a batch of buzzers at that time and a lookie at the H30 thread around that date will show it. Optoma Customer service was great and they sent me another one. I told them to PLEASE bench test it to make sure it doesn't buzz and PLEASE calibrate it because my H30 OTB calibration was horrid...almost unwatchable. I got the 2nd H30 and it buzzed also (although not as much) and the OTB calibration was just as bad.

That’s 2 in a row.

Many also had orange pwr up issues during that time.

Lately, with only 180 hrs on my lamp, my H30 has (for 4 times in a row now) not started up correctly. The 'Optoma' start up screen won't come on and then after about 3 mins I would get a white screen with many vertical black bars (looks exactly like a giant projected bar code!!). After cycling off and on it would start up fine the 2nd time, but time is wasted and I don't think it's good for the lamp to be turned on and off so quickly (I'm not gonna wait 1/2 an hr to start it up again!).

I'm giving my H30 a few more chances and if it continues to do this, Optoma's excellent Customer service will be hearing from me again.

The buzzing only lasts about 30-60 mins from start up now. So I try to warm it up by at least 30 mins before movie viewing (also a pain). I spent SOooo much time calibrating (mostly learning how to) on this H30 that I'm afraid to send it back and get a non-buzzing H30, but then have to start from scratch regarding the calibrations.

Personally, I'll take consistent QC and never have to call the manufacture over poor QC and many calls to helpful customer service.

I got 2 in a row that wern't good. If you read the H30 threads around that time, I was not the only one to get multible bad units. I think one person got 3 H30 in a row that were all buzzers.

BTW, you could get lucky (as many have) and get yourself a fine unit.

If you don't, it's a pain (to me it is at least).

Quality Control = Consistency.

Fleaman

Originally posted by Stryge
Hi Tom,

it looks like it's the same...

hifissimo.com

What do you think?

Yes positively the same as the NTSC H31, it has DVI.
Maybe it is ready for the Euro market. I could find out for sure next week.

Originally posted by cbp2
68in diagonal or actual width?

width.

you can get the pdf of the mauals from infocus and optoma web sites. That will answer some of your questions. Both the manuals dont explain much about the aspect ratio options though. H31 manual also doesnt mention anywhere what the zoom is and the throw ratio is at min zoom unless I overlooked.

I doubt if the manuals are scrutinized. Looks like they have one just for the heck of it. They are just useless. Instead of 200 pages in all languages in the world they could have put some 50 pages in English. I doubt anyone using a projector will be dumb enough not to be able to read english if not speak english.

That spec list says 800 lumen (typical). wonder what "typical" means in front projection :-)

"You can read about the H77 and in those threads there were problems too....mainly with it not being ready for PAL, yet released in PAL markets anyways."

There were a handful of machines about a dozen that dealers got to look at that found their way to buyers ahead of time, before the PAL firmware was done. They shouldn't hv got out. Generally the premium machines are of high caliber. Everybody that has an H77 hasn't had any troubles. No bad bulbs etc

Lower caliber machines, well you can see the recent thread where X1 guys coming to age are having some bulbs blow out ahead of time. Like they've had it a year and the bulb lasted 250hr. They also want to bypass the bulb co's 90day warranty stip also. But I think it's going to be a hard road to climb. :(

The H31 I have has a smooth sounding fan/colorwheel. I haven't heard of any buzzing h30's recently, with the new flux of buyers on the now low priced deal. They must hv changed the color wheel bearing which I thought they did along time ago.

You're still buzzing dude? I though some of it was due to the Electrical in the house you're in? Try re-seating the bulb a couple of times, gently.

Originally posted by Ben Harper
Man, this H31 has really left an impression on me. A real over performer. I hope it proves dependable as the image is top notch. I personally prefer it to the Toshiba MT8 I've had for a while, well at least for DVDs. I'll post a few HD screen shots of the NFL weekend tomorrow.

MT8 isn't that like the IF5700? If so and you still like the H31 more, that's saying allot. Probably the blacks/rich color the dark chip adds.

Tom,

I know it sounds strange, but when viewing DVDs, the H31 throws a better image than the MT8 - the colors look richer and the blacks definitely better.

However, for watching HD the Toshiba is noticibly sharper. Not saying the H31 performs poorly, as it is still very good, it's just the resolution of the MT8 (IF7200 clone) is noticibly sharper. I paid over $5k for the MT8 last year yet the H31 provides ample competition just one year later at 1/4 the price. At this pace, I'll be able to get a 1080p PLV-80 at $2000 by spring!......need to put down the beer.

Ben

ben did you get your pm from me? hope so anyway what dvd player are you using with the h-31 and what kind of connection thanks

Originally posted by guitarman

You're still buzzing dude? I though some of it was due to the Electrical in the house you're in? Try re-seating the bulb a couple of times, gently.

It buzzed at my boss's house too. In fact, when I had 2 H30's at the same time (hot swap), they both buzzed at my place and my boss's place. My boss's H30 (early H30 w/o backlit remote), was whisper quite.

These days the buzzing fades away about 30-60mins after start up.

Why would re-seating the lamp help the buzzing? I haven't heard about that, please clarify if this might really help, thanks.

Fleaman

It would clean the bulb contacts for the start up problem. It works I had a pj that didn't start clean and the re-seat fixed it up.

Originally posted by guitarman
It would clean the bulb contacts for the start up problem. It works I had a pj that didn't start clean and the re-seat fixed it up.

It would start, and the lamp would strike, but it would be a white screen with black bars....as if the color wheel stuck on white (but there's no clear segment on the H30). It as almost if the lamp

So the lamp would go on, but no real picture....no menu's would come up either, just black vertical bars on a white screen.

In anycase, it started up fine just now,


...for now.


fleaman

I got something similar with my HT1000. I got black and white large vertical bars. A re-start fixed it. These machines a computerized and need a re-boot once in a while. Nothing to worry about, I started a thread some time back about it and all many owners with all type of PJ's encountered this once in a while.

Interesting. For me it did it like 4 times in a row over the course of 2 weeks, so it got me a little worried.

But, it's fine tonight.

Ok, time to watch irobot.

Fleaman

Beam1 - got your pm, glad to help. I'm using a Sony DVP-CX777ES changer through component. DVI for HD.

Ben

Originally posted by guitarman
MT8 isn't that like the IF5700? If so and you still like the H31 more, that's saying allot. Probably the blacks/rich color the dark chip adds.

I think this is exactly it. I saw the 4805 and 5700 together on a range of screens and liked the 4805 better in every case, even with HD content. The 5700 resolved a little more detail but the lower contrast ratio was obvious. The 5700 had a more washed out and less-3D look.
--Eric

---

And perceived contrast on the h31 should be higher due to greater brightness. They also spec'd it at 3000:1 if specs are of any value that is higher than the 4805.

You can safely cut the H31 contrast spec in half - Optoma does not rate their machines at optimized D65 greyscale like Infocus.

Kras...any plans to review/calibrate the H31? Do you consider this next generation a substantial improvement?

Not unless someone local gets one and gives it to me for review. Not an Optoma dealer.

The DarkChip2 is a significant improvement - but as competitors have shown the direction of market implementation varies.

BenQ/NEC went the multimedia portable projector route with a 2x RGBWY color wheel. Optoma/Infocus went the route of RGBRGB color wheel for dedicated HT.

Read the H30 threads and decide if you think tigers change their stripes. Marketing of brightness and contrast at calibrated D65 is not something that Optoma does - so I stand by my statement. It remains to be seen if they have better calibrated presets consistent across firmware - which they never achieved on the H30. IMPO they better if the calibration presets are there - who wants to pay for ISF at this budget except 10% of the videophiles that love to calibrate.

Aside from the calibration issue - look at feature differences and see which ones you like that the other has not.


I don't disagree with comparisons of the SP4805 and SP5700 at all. The SP5700 is much brighter - and the older gen chip with less contrast. Plus 576P softens DVD compared to 480P. I would only suggest the SP5700 if someone wanted a larger screen up close for HDTV. Even with the SP5705 which hopefully has more contrast - I would make the same recommend.

If you are DVD only at 2x screen widths away - buy a DVD projector and don't waste your money.

Originally posted by Geoffz
Kras...any plans to review/calibrate the H31? Do you consider this next generation a substantial improvement?

The H31 will have no problem competing with any projector in it's category. It's a pure winner all across the board, features and picture. Try one and see :)

Tom: ..just that naggin early poppin bulb situation. True, of all the projectors sold, the percent is probably quite low..but still..it nags at me. The 4805 is right there for pq and, it seems, less bulb problems. But, then, we have that naggin noise situation with the Infocus. Well, I know, we should know there is no perfect projector. But, hey, I keep lookin and wishin.

sorry noob question whats pq? sorry

I think he meant picture quality.

"it seems"

To early on that one, go ask the Sharp flicker buddies how their bulbs are. In general bulbs do work fine. You just happen to hear heavy from the small unfortunate.

Didn't you buy a projector yet, the times getting old. Super bowl's coming

Originally posted by guitarman
...
Optoma added some excellent aspect features to the H31. It has a 1080i 1 & 2, these come in handy because when viewing OTA 480p you can expand the image, making for thin bars on the sides and keeping the image natural. We all like a bigger picture. :)

Theres an feature called Edge Mask, this is good if a TV signal shows garbage around the rim. Hit the Edge Mask on and it disappears. Nice feature

There's several aspects for 4.3, Normal, 1.66, 1.85, 2.35. Normal is standard size, the other expand the image. These are also useful for non-anamorphic dvds although there's a discrete button on the remote for Letterbox which will handle NA-dvds also.
...

Hi-

It is still not clear to me if the 4805 has a feature set similar to what is described above. Does it? If it does, is it as easy as it appears to be on the H31?

Thanks,

All these aspects 1.66 1.85 2.35, shift memory, 1080i 1&2, edge mask are unigue to the H31. My H77 doesn't even has these.

Regarding bulbs, the InFocus product manager told me they use 3 different brands in their projectors and he hasn't seen any difference in longevity among them. However, the 4805 bulbs are actually made by a company that they have invested in and work with in development.

Optoma's people (and press releases) at CES were still spouting the $1499 MSRP, but have since confirmed the $1299 price.

Mike: It almost goes without saying Optoma h31 would have to compete with list pricing of Infocus 4805. In todays' market you can not get more for a given product when your competetion is as good as you. $1299 is fair list price. And the Optoma h31, along with Infocus 4805, probably represents
the best value in digital front end projectors. In a showroom I have seen the 4805 up against 2 other projectors, both over $3500, and the much cheaper Infocus more than held its' own on DVDs. The more expensive projectors did not beat the 4805 in colors.

Well, because of football playoffs, decision time is near. Seems it comes down to 2 choices, the Infocus 4805 and the Optoma h31. Considering the PQ, on average, about equal that leaves us with the possible noise of the Infocus and the possible early bulb burnout of the Optoma. Even with list price the same, the 4805 is hitting the street somewhat less in cost. By the way at $300 more, the ht510 Nec is a fine choice. OK, I am thinking..thinking..thinking..

Originally posted by mangopony
Well, because of football playoffs, decision time is near. Seems it comes down to 2 choices, the Infocus 4805 and the Optoma h31. Considering the PQ, on average, about equal that leaves us with the possible noise of the Infocus and the possible early bulb burnout of the Optoma. Even with list price the same, the 4805 is hitting the street somewhat less in cost. By the way at $300 more, the ht510 Nec is a fine choice. OK, I am thinking..thinking..thinking..

With regard to the H31, I personally wouldn't risk being an early adopter of a machine that's barely on the market yet. Particularly without user upgradeable firmware - what's the H30 on now, version 8? If you need a projector now, get the 4805. If you can wait out the H31's growing pains (if there are any), then it might be interesting to wait a few months and see how it pans out.

Mike
Happy H30 owner

nevermind.. i retract my post.

well my h-31 arrived today will let you all now somethind later tonight when i get it set up

beam1..Please do..with dvds and with HD, if possible. thanks. Let us know how it looks out of box...and rating on overall quality (workmanship) on the projector, itself.

Originally posted by mystery
I think he meant picture quality.

Ok thanks

well i got it temperayr set up just so i could start watching this thing. it's seems to be built well it comes with a nice carry case i gues so you can take it with you on vacition. right out of the box it looks great watched an hour of empire strikes back only thing i done was turn down the briteness some now i;m watching van helsing as i type. really excellant picture. i am using a zenith 318 dvd player through commponnet up converted to 1080i i have to use setting 2 on 1080i on the projector or i get really bad cropping on the right side of the screen i dont have HD tv so i can't comment on that .the unit is really silent runnig so far i'm pleased but i just got the unit. picture is smooth blacks are black still playing with will report back soon.

beam 1. As you may know, for me, it is probably between h31 and 4805 so I would welcome more comments in the coming days from you. Happy viewing, my friend. And get to bed before too late!

MAN! all i cam say is WOW! watching return of jedi and had to post this this thing is incredable this movis looks like it was made yesterday I'm with Tom and Ben on this one HIGHLT RECOMENDED! Darth vaders helment really shines i've not seen the 4805 but i don't see how it coukd be better. just my opion. i don't beleave I'll be in that big of a hurry to upgrade to HD DVD or tv as good as this unit looks. Who needs to go to the movies anymore

Tom! now i'm confused. i was also looking for a new dvd player that would dvi right because my 318 has some quirks but after watching these 3 movies tonight on the H=31 through componet upconverted i really don't see how the image could be better so maybe i should just live with the 318. I've been reading in the dvd forum and it seems all upconverted players have quirks also and my player upconverta over commponet. any thoghts or help BTW thanks for recommending this unit.

also i have not tried the dvi output on my 318 yet everyone says it has the white crush issue. they say the 318's stong point is commpnet. what is white crush is it something i will notice? I've also looked for the macro=blocking everone talks about and i can't see it but it's hard to focus on that issue watching this great picture.well gotta go luke and vader are fixing to dule might have to play sick tomorrow.

I have the same player with the X1 projector. Your component hookup is fine. No need to go DVI with this player unless you need to free up the component output of the player for another use.

White crush has been fixed by a firmware upgrade which you can get by going to KeohiHDTV website. Michael TLV is the person who's all over this. You can also do a search in the DVD forum here. White crush essentially makes the whites far too bright at the upper end of the white spectrum and the 90th to 100th percentile on the IRE window of test disc's are indistinguishable.

Do I understand completely what I just said. Hell no! :D

But those are the facts anyway. You won't need to acquire this firmware fix unless you plan to utilize the DVI function.

On the other hand, you could try the DVI and see whether you notice anything wrong with the picture. You may not.

Enjoy your new toy!

the reason i have not got the firmware fix is because you lose upconversion over compnett thanks for the info

Quick comparison questions...
for the 4805, H31, and possibly the NEC HT410 what are the:
wheel specs (segments and RPM)?
Light output (D65)?
Fan noise?


Relative specs are okay (i.e. if they are similar, just say that...)

Could I make you some breakfast this morning also? :)

tweak: numbers mean not too much to me but you can find all the specs in the online sites of these companies. At around $1200, the 2 leading contenters are Infocus 4805 and Optoma h31. Bottom line PQ will be about equal. The 4805 seems to be somewhat more noisy in a number of cases and the bulb on the h30 (h31 is too new to know) 'seems' to burn out sooner than most. Of course, these things are random on the noise and the early burnout. They should not keep you from buying one or the other of these fine projectors. I am sure, for vast majority of buyers, either one will serve well and long. They both are..best buys..in todays' marketplace..in my opinion. I shall be buying one or the other..soon.

Tweakophyte

For the Infocus SP4805 the marketed numbers are the D65 numbers. 600 lumens low power (forget high power fan is noisy), 2K:1 contrast.

Optoma ranks their marketing using around 9-11,000K. See my review of the H30 or hometheatermag.com and extrapolate to H31 improvements. I think a safe number is half of marketed for D65

These are both RGBRGB 4x wheels - while NEC is RGBYW 2x wheel.

NEC has a white segment. I guarantee the marketing is not at D65 and has the white segment turned on! Who knows what D65 will be - since the yellow segment gets mixed in - which should help with brightness. The box has no greyscale adjustments though - so it may not even have a proper D65 preset.

Anyone disagree with that - put yourself in the shoes of a marketer - and engineering just gave you a machine with lots of video modes. Do you use the brightest highest contrast mode - or dimmest low contrast mode? Marketing is about the bigger number - not about image quality!

Has the H30 thread gone away so soon, after only thousands of posts? I recently ceiling mounted my H30 after having it table mounted forever. I've got the CO5 firmware.

The PJ is pointing upward to get the image on screen, and I'm having to use quite a lot of keystone to keep things somewhat square.

PJ lens above floor - 100"
Top of screen above floor - 90"
PJ from screen - 14.5'

Do I remember correctly that later firmware versions wil have less offset, allowing me to use less or no keystone correction? Is the throw distance affected (I don't want to have to relocate the PJ again!?)

Any gotchas as far as watching 4x3 with the newer firmwares?

Thanks for your help, and I didn't mean to ask a H30 question in the H31 thread, except I really want to know! Thanks for any advice you can provide...

John F

John, are you using a 4.3 screen? If so the C07 firmware won't help the offset. For 16.9 screen users C07 knocks about 10" off the offset. Like with my setup 14' back 92"wide screen the offset for a 16.9 screen would be 12" instead of 22".

Originally posted by beam1
Tom! now i'm confused. i was also looking for a new dvd player that would dvi right because my 318 has some quirks but after watching these 3 movies tonight on the H=31 through componet upconverted i really don't see how the image could be better so maybe i should just live with the 318. I've been reading in the dvd forum and it seems all upconverted players have quirks also and my player upconverta over commponet. any thoghts or help BTW thanks for recommending this unit.

Sri for being slow getting back. You should get the firmware at Keohi and make use of the DVI. Mainly because the H31 is set to give you 1.1 pixel match (no overscan) thru DVI. The picture will be much cleaner. Plus the tuning in DVI is excellent. I put up a few screenshots at the end of the first post with a DVI player, Riddick shots I think.

Glad you like it. Try some of the Aspect features, like for Standard TV try aspect 1.66 so you get a big image that's still clean/natural. If you have an adjustable screen try a 2.35 movie with the memory picture shift feature. First shift the picture up with the discrete shift buttons. Then move your screen up from the bottom to delete the lower bar. You can put that shift into memory for future 2.35 movies.

Tom -

My screen is a pull-down, I normally watch 16x9, but sometimes 4x3, in which case I pull the screen down a bit farther. I want the top of the image to remain at the top of the screen, regardless of aspect ratio - just with less offset. You know what I mean?

John F

Yeah with a 4.3 screen you're limited at keeping it high. When I set up for 4.3 with my 120" screen the case is at the ceiling. I had to use about 8 or 9 I think on keystone with the PJ angled up a little. I really couldn't see any negatives when using keystone.

With the newer firmware one there's another thing to worry about. The 16.9 image will now be a the very top of the screen.

I think you should stand pat and keep C05 for 4.3 screen use and live with some keystone fixing.

Tom i've tried my dvi and it looks bad evan after calibration it evan dad the 3'' cropping on the right side i'm not going to get the firmware upgrade on my 318 any other good dvi players out there BTW on dvi i did not see any other ajustments for that imput like 1.1 mapping so far the best picture so far is commponet with 1080i setting #2 any help thanks

<<The 16.9 image will now be a the very top of the screen.>>

Wouldn't this be what I want? I want to be able to pull the screen down farther to accomodate 4x3. What am I missing here? Well, it's been a long day...

John F

Originally posted by mangopony
tweak: numbers mean not too much to me but you can find all the specs in the online sites of these companies. At around $1200, the 2 leading contenters are Infocus 4805 and Optoma h31. Bottom line PQ will be about equal. The 4805 seems to be somewhat more noisy in a number of cases and the bulb on the h30 (h31 is too new to know) 'seems' to burn out sooner than most. Of course, these things are random on the noise and the early burnout. They should not keep you from buying one or the other of these fine projectors. I am sure, for vast majority of buyers, either one will serve well and long. They both are..best buys..in todays' marketplace..in my opinion. ...

Thanks! KRAS answered most of my relative spec questions. (Thanks KRAS) I know not to read them off the box, so to speak. Some lucky people have had the opportunity test and test and test a bunch of these boxes.


I shall be buying one or the other..soon.
... and me too. This shopping thing is half the fun. Good thing the basement is not done enough to buy today.

Originally posted by beam1
Tom i've tried my dvi and it looks bad evan after calibration it evan dad the 3'' cropping on the right side i'm not going to get the firmware upgrade on my 318 any other good dvi players out there BTW on dvi i did not see any other ajustments for that imput like 1.1 mapping so far the best picture so far is commponet with 1080i setting #2 any help thanks

When you use DVI and the native aspect you get zero overscan and 1.1 pixels match. It's a shame these new DVI players aren't perfect yet (macroblotch problems) I'd try a Bravo or Momitsu.

Originally posted by jfried
<<The 16.9 image will now be a the very top of the screen.>>

Wouldn't this be what I want? I want to be able to pull the screen down farther to accomodate 4x3. What am I missing here? Well, it's been a long day...

John F

Yes you're right, but I can't stand watching 16.9 up at the ceiling. I was thinking of users mainly setting up in straight 4.3.

You won't be able to get around the keystone without opting for a 16.9 setup only. Unless you have super high ceilings.
Use the keystone feature.

I was reading the user manual on this PJ since I'm considering it. I noticed there is an option for "High Altitude" that turns the fan on higher to cool the bulb better.

Just curious, how much louder is this setting (maybe compared to the 4805 in Low Mode)? I figure it may save the bulb from premature failure. Thats the only thing holding me back from purchasing this model...

Also, is the hot air exhaust on the side? (it looks it in the pics)

Exhaust is on the front. I saw the Altitude item in the menu, for sure a cooler bulb is a happy bulb. :)

The high sound level is still pretty low and has a smooth tone. I'm not using the bright mode or Altitude feature anyway. Been lucky with the H30's bulbs and this is a different bulb in the H31, I think it's a 200 watter vs 180wt.

Here's a thought maybe in econo mode and Altidude fan setting you can extend a bulb's life another 1,000hrs. Just guessing though.

Whats the difference between econo mode and regular modes?

Thats great information to know... I didn't know that the exhaust was pushed out the front.

Does this mean when I ceiling mount it, I can butt the back of the unit against the rear wall (leaving slight room for cable hookup)? I would like to have the largest possible screen size (another reason I prefer Optoma over the Infocus, I only have 10' of throw)...

Also, anyone know if the AMEX/purchase extended warranty covers bulb failure? If this was the case I would have up to 180 days for the bulb to die... not as bad as 90 days!

Hmmm... I'm hesitant with the bulb failures because my living room is hot enough both winter/summer (top floor) that I don't want to have a big problem on my hands with bulbs blowing out unexpectedly!

Tom, I do believe the bulb is from same manufacturer, same type, just higher wattage, yes?

There is no way of knowing whether they are using the same bulb manufacturer for H31 bulbs as they were for some of the H30's. For all we know they have three bulb manufacturers that they use to fill their quota just as Mike found out InFocus does. Primary point is that this is a different bulb than the H30's used- obviously since it's 20 watts higher output. To question everything Optoma makes because of a few bad H30 bulbs is irresponsible. Tom- any 56,57,76,77 owners in the other forum complaining of early bulb failures? I suspect not. Nor do I see a bunch of EZPro users here mentioning early failures.

It's time to move on, BUY SOMETHING and get past it. If you are convinced that every Optoma has crappy bulbs then go buy a 4805 and get it over with.

End of rant.