me2003 ,

--- You need to send the Projector 848x480 , current Nvidia and ATi cards cannot do 854x480 properly [ which is why the Projector shows 800x600 - the 4805 does exactly the same thing ] . Be sure you have the aspect ratio on the PJ set properly . Try that and report back if it works for you ;) .


--------- Jason

Why is this 1:1 stuff so important? Is there even a slim chance of seeing better quality from 854x480 vs 848x480? This whole thing has left me scraching my head.

Originally posted by DaGamePimp
me2003 ,

--- You need to send the Projector 848x480 , current Nvidia and ATi cards cannot do 854x480 properly [ which is why the Projector shows 800x600 - the 4805 does exactly the same thing ] . Be sure you have the aspect ratio on the PJ set properly . Try that and report back if it works for you ;) .


--------- Jason


This seems to be absolutely wrong.. I have very sucessfully (not considering tearing) sent 854x480 from Nvidia (6800 GT and 6600 GT - current Nvidia cards by the way)/ATI video cards (9100 Pro) to the H31... The projector shows 854x480 when syncing and there is no change to 800x600..

This is with two systems both have Windows XP Service Pack 2 installed and reinstalled again.. latest drivers - latest everything...


It is amazing that STILL no one but myself on this discussion seems to have done the right testing... I have still not seen a confirmation that 854x480 or 848x480 works properly on the H31 as DaGamePimp has assumed. But Please Know the DaGamePimp has NOT done ANY testing of H31 at 1:1 using HTPC before making the assumption, so maybe we will just have to wait for second finding besides mine..

Originally posted by [H]RedDog
Why is this 1:1 stuff so important? Is there even a slim chance of seeing better quality from 854x480 vs 848x480? This whole thing has left me scraching my head.



Well that is another problem... Who said 848x480 worked either!!!


I ALSO got the same exact tearing on 848x480 from both Nvidia and ATI video cards...


If my projector is not defective as I believe, then the H31 definitely does not like to work well with "non-standard" custom resolutions at least when using ATI/Nvidia video cards...

Da Game pimp,

I got it to go into 848x480 at 60hz, the image text appears to shake a little but i think its because of the refresh rate, do you no where i can find the exact refresh rate setting for this resolution ? i think i am going to have to use powerstrip to set the refresh rate since it only goes down to 60hz.

Anyways thanks for your help da game pimp.


I see others were wondering about sreensize and distance, anyways i have a 80 inch screen with my projector mounted 11 1/2 feet away and i sit about 14 feet away from the image. I notice no screen door affect from this distance at all. I dont see pixels unless im about 5 feet away from the screen and like i read before from a post in hear its way to close to sit anyways. I dont think you have to be 1:1 pixel maping because the image looks great the way it is and everyone of my friends and family i have shown the projector to is amazed by the quality of the image. I think this is a exellent choice for hometheater and expecially at its price. From what i have heard the 4805 is also a great choice too use for ht. I actually use this for viewing everything know. Its to hard to watch tv on a 27inch tv anymore. I will be putting probally 100 hours on the projector and at this rate it should last two years on the bulb and i think its well worth it.

Hey, can you play any DVDs on your system ... ( Gladiator /very easy to see..2 fast 2 furious... anything) or use a program Called Judder Test...


and report back if you get any kinda tearing or a slow slicing type effect in the picture....??? let the movie play and watch carefully... play full screen to see better (doens't matter what software you use or really if you are in full screen)



848x480 /854 has ALWAYS synced perfectly.. That was never the issue.....but it was the tearing I was originally talking about that killed the deal....

Finally someone has come to a similar test conditions..

nrezaie,
Ummm, if you are @ 854 then I don't believe you are pixel-mapped. I was under the impression that it has to be a multiple of 8 to be pixel-mapped, hence the 848 vs 854. It may play and display 854x480, but that does not necessarily mean you are pixel-mapped.

me2003,
You will get stutter @ 60Hz with film content. Get powerstrip and then you can get 47.952Hz, and you will have the refresh rate matched and thus smooth playback. So you got the H31 to pixel-map, heh? Great news. Keep us posted if you can get the refresh rate matched as well.

FWIW, DaGamePimp has been nothing but an asset to the 4805 thread and literally gave many of us a step-by-step to get pixel-mapped on the 4805.

Hell, he even offered his time up to test the H31 and see if he could get it to work!

Originally posted by therealgeno
nrezaie,
Ummm, if you are @ 854 then I don't believe you are pixel-mapped. I was under the impression that it has to be a multiple of 8 to be pixel-mapped, hence the 848 vs 854. It may play and display 854x480, but that does not necessarily mean you are pixel-mapped.

me2003,
You will get stutter @ 60Hz with film content. Get powerstrip and then you can get 47.952Hz, and you will have the refresh rate matched and thus smooth playback. So you got the H31 to pixel-map, heh? Great news. Keep us posted if you can get the refresh rate matched as well.

FWIW, DaGamePimp has been nothing but an asset to the 4805 thread and literally gave many of us a step-by-step to get pixel-mapped on the 4805.

Hell, he even offered his time up to test the H31 and see if he could get it to work!


The argument was that 854x480 DOES NOT work and will give 800x600 ... I am saying that is not true because I get exactly 854x480 and it shows it, but tearing will result. Why will the H31 show 852x480, 853x480, 854x480.. Is the OSD just showing this, but really lying ...?


I notice the only time I am not allowed to do a nondivideby8 is with Nvidia custom resolution tool.. With PowerStrip, the display driver accepts it and then sends it to the H31 and the H31 reports on screen that it is receiving it...

and How is 854x480 not pixel mapped when the H31s native resolution is 854x480?

I understand 848x480 works (I get tearing with it as well), but 854x480 looks more perfect and correct(not considering tearing)... it is definitely appears to be the correct aspect almost identical to 848x480, but it looks sharper and crisper in comparison- just exact, even though 848x480 looks close to the same as well..


to me 1:1 pixel mapping means I match the native resolution of my projector using a custom resolution (powerstrip/whatever).. Have I been wrong this whole time??? How possibly can 848x480 be officially called 1:1 on an 854x480 native projector?

Currently I am using the Z3 with 1280x720 resolution at 60Hz without problems... Is this not 1:1....

In the past I used 1024x576 to a Sharp Z200 (native 1024x576)... Was this not 1:1



Also, I have never received stutter at 60Hz with film content or any content... Optoma told me to make sure I am using 60Hz as well... Maybe everyone is wrong, but if they are telling me the wrong thing and really I should be using 47, then that tells me right there I should not be messing around with Optomas H31 and consider another projector from someone else.....

Also, why is it that when you use any standalone dvd player, you always have a signal going in at 60Hz.

Regardless... there was no luck with tearing on any refresh rate I tried at 848x480/854x480...


Maybe it is just a problem VERY specific to Nvidia 6 series and also a Radeon 9100 Pro.. seems crazy to me that I would have the exact two cards that do not perform well with the H31.


I just want to see if me2003 has everything working perfectly... If there is tearing.. he will see it for sure... even though it doesn't happen every single second.. It depends on what motion is happening.. You can also get it by just slowly move around "Windows"... and it is a nice slow tearing if you move it just right..

Originally posted by vjren
I now have the H30A on my test bench, must be one of the first on the continent.

First I thought I detected overscan, but there is this nifty new setting that allows you to zoom to format and it isn't standard off.

Next some real testing. Wow contrast is really the key to this shiny new thing, even better than a H30. Resolution improvement is top.

Even tried some HD files over DVI and this is just the best way to enjoy it at this price! Lookis really stunning, and I have a H57 and H77 next to it. And sure are better but when on a budget no way you have to spend much cash to enjoy as much as this little thingy does!

740x480 is very sharp and correct, all resolution patterns are real good, just the PAL patterns are improved by the H57.

One thing I can not get to work 1:1 854x480 pixelmapping at 50 Hz. I end up with tearing every time. Anyone an idea? (I used a Momitsu player conencted by DVI)


I am also wondering what ever happened to this guy ... He also received tearing connected 1:1 DVI.... but with a Momitsu standalone DVD player.

Okay i tried using powerstrip but where you change the timing settings it wont let me switch to that refresh rate, the box is dim and i cant select it.
I think i am going to stick to using it at 800 x 600 60hz since it looks the clearest and sharpest to me and i get no tearing. nrezaie try running at 800 x 600 , 60hz single display and use Intervideo windvd and set it to widescreen monitor. Let me know if your tearing goes away. It might just be your video card displaying that resolution produces tearing. By the way i am using the 6800 gt video card i think thats the same as yours. Maybe its just the video card that produces tearing, on my pc lcd display i get tearing unless i run at 800 x 600. Give that a try and let me know what happens.

There is NO way I am using 800x600.... That in my opinion defeats the whole purpose of this (1:1 HTPC.. everything.. I think the reason people love the whole HTPC thing is 1:1 pixel map..!!!!)...... I think you may be surprised how how much you are missing compared to working 854x480/848x480... 800x600 looks horrible compared to 848x480 or 854x480 as I tested... I also am using a Geforce 6800 GT and I also have a Geforce 6600 GT.. The ATI card I used doesn't do any better and infact showed a little worse for some reason.. Usually I would expect ATI to perform better, but I even felt the Nvidia cards looked nicer..



and yes 800x600 will make the tearing go away.... As I have said before....All the standard resolutions work perfectly and no tearing results..

I'm just telling you, this is a 16:9 projector, using 800x600 is completely unacceptable in my (and probably most others) opinion.. I seriously think you might not understand just how much of a Wow factor there is when you get a working 1:1 resolution... The picture looks PERFECT.. Sharp, crisp and just hits you very hard... 800x600 destroys this and there is absolutely no way you are experiencing the feeling I am talking about .. You just may not have prior experience to know what you are supposed to be seeing.....


Also, if you are not gonna see if 848x480 works, then you should AT LEAST be using 720x480x60Hz which also works perfectly.. doesn't look quite as good in Windows but it's what most standalone progressive scan players output... so it is not a huge loss... you just don't get 1:1... Also, I'd be VERY VERY concerned if your H31 is not even doing well with 720x480... Anyway I felt the whole 1:1 was too much of a disappointment to keep the H31 considering every other projector I have used did it perfectly with no artifacts/tearing..

I especially got pushed over the edge when Optoma seemed to have NO idea why 1:1 resulted in tearing from HTPC .... They couldn't even tell me or confirm if it were a known issue with the H31/HTPC.. That would have even been an acceptable answer.. I can accept a limitation, but I cannot accept no explanation. But They even stopped replying to my emails because I don't think they understand HTPC talk.. and all they had to say was... Get a refund. Well that's what I did!!! But I would seriously consider it again, if I knew someone else's H31 was working properly with a similar HTPC set up because it was a GREAT and well worth the price if I wasn''t using 1:1...


Given that NO ONE has reported this success with HTPC, it seems like it time to give my hopes up..

Once again I will say that you cannot 'properly' do 854x480 [ even with PowerStrip ] on current Nvidia & ATi Video Cards [ there is a limitation that prevents it from working as it should in hardware/driver ] . I have done much testing with this on both video card brands and neither one can do it properly . I was able to make the Optoma H30 see a non 8x resolution so maybe the same holds true for the H31 . It is said that some of the Matrox cards can do 854x480 however .

--- Certain drivers do give tearing (among other issues) with certain cards , for example ...

--- While many people here find the 71.80 Quadro drivers to work well with the 6800 series I had nothing but problems with 71.80 on 2 different 6600 GT's [ one of the problems was tearing ] . Others had issues with the 71.80's as well .

--- I also had tearing with the newer ATi Catalyst drivers [5.1/5.2] on a modded Radeon 9500 Pro but the older 4.7 drivers work perfectly smooth [ with VMR9 and FFDshow in full glory ] .



nrezaie ,

--- Your assumption is that it does not work [ even at 848x480 ] without tearing just because you personally could not make it work ?

--- I don't think anybody stated that 848x480 is 1:1 , just that it is pixel-mapped [ there is a loss of 3 pixel rows on each side ] .

--- Let us not start another bickering match as it gets nowhere and there are others here that benefit from constructive information [ vs. just comments made of frustration and anger ] . Besides I can assure you that in a debate of this nature you accomplish nothing by getting angry with others because they know more than you regarding the issue at hand . Your initial post claimed 854x480 was not working (tearing) and this is what my response was regarding because I know (as do most other HTPC users) that 854x480 simply does not work properly on ATi/Nvidia cards at the moment . Had you stated 848x480 not working properly then I would have certainly offered you some advice for things to try . Be careful how far you go with your comments or you might end up putting your foot in your mouth [ but then again maybe I will too if 848x480 does not work as it should on the H31 ... I have a feeling it will with further testing ] . The idea here at AVS is to help eachother out [ not lash out at eachother ] .

me2003 ,

--- Be sure you have the PJ on the proper aspect ratio setting as this can effect the image when using a mapped HTPC . The 47.952 Powerstrip timings are listed on the first page of my website [ click the www link above ] .


-------- Best Wishes ,
------------ Jason

Jason... HOW much information do I have to repeat over and over again.

I have said repeated the resolutions 848x480 and 854x480 and I have repeated the word Tearing and I have repeated ATI/NVIDIA SO MANY TIMES in this discussion...!!!!!



Let me explain one more time.... Your 4805 may not see 854x480... but as you said about the H30, my H31 IS seeing the correct resolution of 854x480..... The video card driver IS accepting it...

****NOW**** I Did NOT say it was working properly, did I? No, or obviously I wouldn't be here!!! This makes sense right... We can both agree here?... Yes. NEVER did I say 854x480 was working correctly without tearing, but others including yourself claim it will revert to 800x600 when you apply 854x480. Well I have simply said that this DOES NOT happen on my H31. There.. That is so clear it is impossible to mistake it..



Ok, you now claimed that I am saying all H31s cannot display 848x480 because MINE won't... . NOT TRUE. Please, Do you not see me begging for someone to test this besides me. We both know YOU personally have NOT tested it so there is no much information you can give or hard facts about what is going wrong... We can both agree here? Yes.

I am willing to accept my H31 is BROKEN if someone else can confirm that 848x480 is working perfectly with no tearing whatsoever. NO one has confirmed this and it is impossible for you to confirm this. You can also not claim that I am WRONG about the H31 in general not working properly from possibly certain video cards at certain resolutions... So, Do I assume that the H31 has tearing with possibly certain video cards at certain resolutions... YES... DO I assume that it has tearing just because my H31 showed it... NO..


As for drivers: I have used three different sets of drivers (all 60s and 70s series) with my Nvidia cards for testing.. Every single one of them exhibit the tearing at any close pixel mapped resolution/refresh rate/adjustment..... With the ATI card, I have used only one set of drivers and that was Catalyst 5.1. I have seen the tearing is EXACTLY the same in nature... ABSOLUTELY 100% exactly... The tearing does not appear or occur differently or in a different manner between either of the two brands of video cards... This makes me think..but does not confirm to me.... that the tearing is a result of either a limitation or a problem with the H31 projector..


This is as clear as I can be.. and most of this except for the last paragraph has been repeated several times in clear American Born English...

nrezaie

It is clear that you do not need nor wish our troubleshooting assistance here on AVS. So why are you posting for advice if you are not willing to discuss troubleshooting? Return the projector and move on to the next projector on your list. Maybe you will have better luck with a standard XGA business projector as far as pixel matching goes.

I am posting information and discussing with others the topic of 1:1??

What more do you want?


I am not asking for help because I already know I have spent a very long time thoroughly testing the unit. I am also not asking for advice... I am though encouraging someone else to do some real testing instead of making bogus claims based on the success of a projector from a different brand. I am still interested in the H31, even though I have as you instructed already shipped back the projector for return.. I am in posession of a Z3 that is working perfectly, but I am willing to sell it for a cheaper DLP projector considering I think DLP blows LCD away..


You should know this is not a "troubleshooting" only forum... It is simply a general discussion forum for projectors under 3500 dollars... Not only that but I am in a general discussion thread called Optoma H31 review and screenshots.

flaming, harrassment, rude has no place on the forum in any thread.

"If you see any spam, advertising messages, flaming, harrassment, rude or sexually inappropriate posts; if the thread is located in the wrong forum, or you notice any other thread against forum rules, please report it. This will help make the forum a better place for all."

I am done with this discussion since nrezaie is responding in such a manner that nothing constructive will come of it [ no matter what he is told ] . He continues to overlook what is being stated and only wishes to repeat his complaining regarding a projector that he no longer even owns .




--- My offer still stands to HTPC test an H31 .


-------- Jason

Tom,

If you are almost at max zoom for a 92" diag. image at 14" back, do you think you could get something as small as an 84" diag. at that same distance? I need the H31 to be back about 13 or 14', but want the image to be no larger than 84" diag., or the image will show up on my speakers. Could you try it out and let me know?

Temp closure.

Will re-open soon.
Kyser

Open for business.

Kyser, I hope the reason for the temporary thread closure was so you could give nrezaie a stern warning about his arrogant attitude toward someone who was trying to help.

Originally posted by smithfarmer
Kyser, I hope the reason for the temporary thread closure was so you could give nrezaie a stern warning about his arrogant attitude toward someone who was trying to help.

No need to throw salt in the wound, let's please get this thread back on track, and Thank You to all the trailblazers for your time.


peace

I hate to see this thread get off like this, when the bottom line is this projector rocks.

I have been checking out the DVD of CSI Miami, and it looks fantastic on this projector. In fact, I feel it does more to show off the projector than movies like Fith Element and Nemo.... The show is near 3D in quality.

Originally posted by guitarman
The offset for me is about 12", I use a chief mount which can mount very flush but they're costly. Some are using the Panvise mount which is cheap and has pivots you can lock. You may be able to use one and angle the arm back away from the stud to get it pretty flush.

So this seems really close to the 4805 as far as the screen offset. The 4805 is 12.5", so the H31 would be pretty close to the same.

Anybody know or can direct me to where I can find the exact offset?

so um, not to beat a dead horse or anything, but um, can you sync a widesceen higher resolution thatn 8xx X 4xx even if it's not mapped? and if so, would it look halfway decent? i mean, could you do higher than native res or would you have sqashy text and stuff?

With HTPC, i am having no problems what so ever with getting the res to be 854x480 with my ATI Radeon 9600 Pro with digital DVI, and i see no tearing or sync problems either, but i cant take the res so big for a pc, the only way i use it at the res is when i watch movies, but otherwise i am using 1280x720
ohh yeah... i'm using powerstrip too... so people stop complaining about HTPC and just try harder... and just get it right.... :P

Arty13

Have you done a pixel map test.

You can download ColorFacts Pro demo from www.milori.com, they have a free test pattern generator you can use to check pixel mapping. But don't download the pattern generator only - it is an older version.

That has checkerboard patterns you can use to check the pixel matching.

Put the H31 to the test last night. Here are the finals with using colorfacts to tune. I used the method of finding the limiting color which was red by a little and for adjusting brightness RGB's I left green alone since green is set when first doing a brightness adjustment. I understand these are the recommended formats for setting the grayscale.

Ok on to the charts.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h31cie.jpg

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h31rgb.jpg

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h31gamma.jpg

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h312000.jpg

You'll notice in the contrast ratio chart white brightness is very high. This is in econo mode, so I told you the H31 can be bright. :)

I may be able to eek out some more contrast using a filter but right now cr is pretty high for a calibrated 6500k grayscale.

Gamma came in at a very nice level also. CIE looks very good to.

krasmuzik,

I will try it later today, and i'll post what i find out :D

Arty

so i use the Ansi Checkerboard right? and then i just see if the pixels match up with the lines, right?

Hi All,

I've purchased my first DLP projector which arrived on Friday afternoon, can you guess which one? :)

Anyways, currently I am putting the image from my H31 on a painted blue wall with no screen and placing the projector onto a shelf. The image is far out of this world compared to my older Sony 32" flatscreen so I'm excited to see what it is like once I have a real screen installed.

The room I will be using this projector in is already finished (new home built by another owner). The ceilings and walls are fully painted so I'm looking for the least amount of impact to the room. So the first thing I need to do is find a ceiling mount that is easy to install and compatible with the H31. The manual refers to using an "M3" screw-mount, are most all universal projectors compatible with the H31? Any particular recommendations, preferably not absurdly priced either.

Originally posted by xed
Any particular recommendations, preferably not absurdly priced either.

How about DIY (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=232749)

If not try Ebay.


peace

xed,

Try this place:

http://www.perfectmounts.com/index.html?lang=en-us&target=front.html

They're Canadian and located in Northern Ontario but they've just opened up a U.S. office. Their stuff is very reasonably priced and they even have a universal mount that should work for most applications.

By the way, whereabouts did you purchase your H31 from?

Wayne

Originally posted by mystery
xed,
They're Canadian and located in Northern Ontario but they've just opened up a U.S. office. Their stuff is very reasonably priced and they even have a universal mount that should work for most applications.

By the way, whereabouts did you purchase your H31 from?

Wayne Thanks, I had just shot off an email to them before reading your reply, found them through Projector Central. I ordered mine from from TigerDirect.

Currently leaning towards the Everst mount but waiting for them to reply.

If you want to go really cheap you can use a closed circuit camera mount that several of us H30 owners have used. You can see a picture of it in my gallery although that is an old picture and I don't have it doing that weird side hanging thing anymore. That is the 9" version and I think the 6" version would be a little more rigid if you don't need much drop. Once you crank down on the allen screws it does not move. While this is definitely not as nice as a chief mount etc.- It does a very adequate job. I also have a safety cable mounted that is not in the picture. Do a Froogle search by the part number of 826-06w if you're interested. Kinda ghetto but since installing it I have never thought of replacing it with a better one.

Cheers!

Thanks guitarman! Those numbers just confirm what we already knew about this projector....





Originally posted by guitarman
Put the H31 to the test last night. Here are the finals with using colorfacts to tune. I used the method of finding the limiting color which was red by a little and for adjusting brightness RGB's I left green alone since green is set when first doing a brightness adjustment. I understand these are the recommended formats for setting the grayscale.

Ok on to the charts.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h31cie.jpg

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h31rgb.jpg

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h31gamma.jpg

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h312000.jpg

You'll notice in the contrast ratio chart white brightness is very high. This is in econo mode, so I told you the H31 can be bright. :)

I may be able to eek out some more contrast using a filter but right now cr is pretty high for a calibrated 6500k grayscale.

Gamma came in at a very nice level also. CIE looks very good to.

The end result is excellent, gamma and CR. I'll try to work better on the black level If I can get it to drop by just half the CR will blast up to the stratosphere. This pj has so much fire power I'm not sure I can get it lower but I'll see

Arty13

No it has a focus pattern - composed of a pixel checkerboard - not the big ANSI checkerboard!

guitarman

So looks like we have two projectors under $2K that can do 2K:1 (calibrated) now! Looks better greyscale than your H79 calibration - keep practicing (BTW in the expensive projector forum somebody was looking for calibration services in Bay Area - you should take the gig!)

Now no cheating with white peaking though right!? And how far off out of the box - at what dE from D65? Also I keep seeing a slight 80IRE bump in gamma - is that your calibration or Optoma?

For blacks I leave brightness alone - and adjust the RGB offsets up until it starts dithering each color - then I back off one (Red is tough to see - more of a shade than a dither). Then I know that I can only cut offsets to meet D65 at 30IRE - and I will always be absolute black for max contrast.


Not THAT bright though - as I convert that to 11ftL (nits*pi/10.764) - what was your virtual image size at the sensor? That means you will be half movie bright with old lamp.

Colorwheel seems different from H30 - So with Optoma you get greens/blues perfect with orange reds (looks like they retreated from the deep greens), and with Infocus you get reds/blues perfect with yellow greens. Take your pick!

This DC2 chip is quite capable with a proper implementation - can you imagine what we will get with DC3 next year?

OTB blue was high. I could reset to factory and run a grayscale check next time. I have the white peak off all the time now. Same screen width 92". I'll work on the blacks a little better. This time I used the PJ in 4.3 and viewed the Avia all black patter/moving bars till I could barely see the second bar. The only dithering I could see was the two bars, all else around was stable black.

I just double checked and 0.019 is better than I got with the H79 which was 0.028. Are both of these too high or am I reading the decimals wrong?

Was 92" 16:9 or 4:3 image?

If 16:9 11ftL is 363 Lumens, if 4:3 11ftL is 485 Lumens

Is this Eye One or Trichomat - I don't trust the Eye-One for brightness/contrast. What is the light meter reading?

Are you using the Bravo for DVI?

Grayscale was run in 16.9 I just used the PJ in 4.3 for the Avia brightness/black tuning. I used the Tri-chromat and this was analog/progressive with a Q50 phillips.

What I'm confused about is in reading all HT-mags reveiws he gets black numbers like 0.003. But he uses a light meter to get the numbers. I'm confusing the colorfacts CR number 0.019 thinking it's the same measurement Geoffrey is getting with his testing.

Didn't we figure he was reading off the screen which always lowers the numbers?

If your voltage is low on the analog input - tweaking the ADC service menu can help more than contrast control. That is why I prefer digital inputs for review - remove a variable.

But this is about what I would expect - figure 80% spec for low power lamp and another 50% for calibration.

You can calibrate your readings by trying to find the setting that achieves 850 Lumens and 3000:1 marketed spec. For 92" screen width that would be 25ftL or 88 nits (cd/m2) white and 0.029 nits black. So if anything 0.019 nits reading is low - but I think you are getting into sensor accuracy by now.

I cant seem to find the focus pattern, where it be on the program?


Originally posted by krasmuzik
Arty13

No it has a focus pattern - composed of a pixel checkerboard - not the big ANSI checkerboard!

On your windows program menu you can direct access it - or from Colorfacts it is Instruments->TestPatterns Then popmenu Tracking-Phase adjust is the one you want.

The brightness/contrast are very useful for making sure your desktop is calibrated as well!

ok i got the tracking phase test screen, so what am i exactly looking for? sorry to keep bugging ya :D

Arty

If you are pixel matched then things should look identical all the way across the screen. There are various checkerboard patterns.

Go closer to the screen - if any dot takes more pixels than the other dots - you are not pixel matched. If anything is banded with grey dots rather than B&W - you are not pixel matched.

so can someone help me with this

the X1 in film mode, warm temp settings and a widescreen source is somewhere around 400 lumens (so i've been told)

how many lumens is the H31?

i've read from an X1 to H31 owner somewhere in this thread that the H31 appears to be 3 times brighter with similar settings, but i'd like to know specifically what the number is. after reading guitarman's replies it appears he knows. if so, can you please reply?

tia

billy

Can you all who have the H31 post all your settings? I know each projector will be different, but hopefully it will give me a good starting point and if not, I can always just go back to default. Thanks.

billymac
I would say that on calibrated settings - based on what guitarman has got so far that they are about the same. Of course just like the X1 it will have brighter uncalibrated settings.

Keep in mind that somebody comparing a used X1 to a new H31 is not a valid brightness comparison. Somebody who bought the projector a year or two ago is well into a dim lamp and surely is 2x dimmer. Combine that with the color wheel deposition documented on this forum and it gets even dimmer. Combine that with people never cleaning the X1 filters - and it gets even dimmer. My brother bought my SP4800 demo (HT version of X1) - and it is in sad state as far as brightness goes - has all three of those problems!

so kras you're saying that a calibrated H31 is about the same as the X1 set to film mode, warm color temp? hmmmm, that is a bummer. i was hoping for 500 or 600'ish at least

am i understanding you correctly?

if the h31 otb is brighter than that and it does not have a clear segment on the color wheel, then why would it be much less brighter calibrated? something to do with "canned" or preset color and gamma settings or something?

Optoma I think markets their projector using 11500K and white peaking on - which exposes more of the brighter native Cyan coloring of the lamp.

guitarman if you set your Colorfacts for ftL - it will make lumens conversion easier!

I don't think this is a bad measure - you want a smaller 92" screen because of 480P pixelation anyways - just means it has to be High Power rather than High Contrast CinemaVision.

Let guitarman double check the measures and provide default BOX vs. ISF results!

Originally posted by krasmuzik

I don't think this is a bad measure - you want a smaller 92" screen because of 480P pixelation anyways - just means it has to be High Power rather than High Contrast CinemaVision.



forgive me but i'm not sure i understand you here. can you explain? sorry :(

i'd be going from a 96" diag 4:3 to a 92" diag widescreen (45x80")

or possibly a 106" diag if i can't hit it right and if sde is not visible from 12' back. obviously, i'd make that decision after the fact in order to verify in person

guitarman, can you help tell us what actual lumen output is?

I was talking about DaLite screens - HP is 1.5 gain effectively with ceiling mount. HCCV is 1.1 gain grey.

The seating distance rule for 480P to avoid SDE and pixels is twice screen width. For most people 92" works out. The higher contrast of the DarkChip2 makes screen door more noticable than on the X1.

Certainly out of the box the H31 will be brighter - as I explained earlier old X1's have dimmed by now for several reasons. But the same thing will happen to the H31. It will start getting dimmer - that is the nature of lamp based technology.

And just like the X1 it will have brighter settings - but if you liked X1's film mode you will want to use calibrated mode on the H31. And I think they are about the same then (setting old lamp aside)

roger that. thanks for your time and explanation. i truly appreciate it. the screen stuff makes total sense to me. i'd probably just settle for a hcmw model b w/csr due to my budget.

hhmmmmm, so aside from the native aspect ratio and tuning the settings to my taste, would you consider this much of an upgrade then? (off the record of course) ;)

based on what i'm hearing from you, i'm starting to think maybe it's not and that there could be some disappointment.

Contrast is certainly 3x higher. And the colors look better than the X1. And you get the full native DVD rather than cropping one way or the other.

Of course I think you would be better off with an Infocus SP4805 - but wrong thread for that! :D

hee hee, yeah my next infocus will hopefully be an affordable dc3 720p dlp :D (crossing his fingers)

i'm pretty interested in this H31 and am anxious for guitarman to tell us what the actual calibrated lumen output is

Its an upgrade. Screen door is easier to see but only a little easier. The pixels are closer together on the h31 and so to me the detail of the image is much better. I always had to defocus a little on the x1 to get rid of screen door and also have to on the H31 but I only have to defocus a little bit on the h31. The x1 had to be blured a little bit more to get rid of it. The reason the SDE is more apparent is because the lines are darker. But they are also smaler. Also The pixels are smaler than the x1 and I could tell right away that the little bit of extra res on the H31 helped. The picture if far more detailed than the x1 is. Alot of that has to do with the contrast too. As far a how bright the bulb is. Its brighter than I ever remember the x1 being. I'm actualy hoping the bulb tames down as its hard to watch certain movies for me at least because my eyes start to hurt from the brightness. And I use a diy grey screen that is probably a little dimmer than HCCV is going to be. The x1 does have a very nice picture. I set it up for the guy who bought mine and was watching the beach opening from saving private ryan and was still impressed with the picture. Then I went home and had to see it on the h31. It looked like first run film compaired to the x1. I wanted to mention I ran high alt. mode to see how loud it is and the x1 is just as loud. I'm so used to the x1 noise level that I can run in High alt. mode and is doesnt bother me. Hopfully it will make the bulb last longer. I will run the fan in normal mode for special things like when guests are over or to watch LOTR.

cool reddog, that's good to hear, i like it when i read this:

I'm actualy hoping the bulb tames down as its hard to watch certain movies for me at least because my eyes start to hurt from the brightness.

:D

Originally posted by billymac
cool reddog, that's good to hear, i like it when i read this:

I'm actualy hoping the bulb tames down as its hard to watch certain movies for me at least because my eyes start to hurt from the brightness.

:D

Also I run a 102 inch screen. A 92 inch is going to be even brighter.

Whoa! I didn't think of that. I was worrying that going from a 92" diagonal up to a 106" or roundabouts was going to dim the image but it sounds as if the H31 can handle it!

That's good news RedDog!!

I might spring for this pj and a larger screen yet. :)

As a matter of fact I have indeed decided to purchase the Optoma H31 and sell my X1.

It's going to be a little hard because it was my first pj and there are a lot of fond memories and good times in connection with it but that's progress I guess.

I'll do a review when I get it. Planning on purchasing around March 10th or so.

A big thanks to Tom and the others who have taken the plunge early for their encouragement.

Wayne

H31 owners:

I've started a poll regarding OTB (out of the box) calibrations,

Here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=512610)

If you own an H31, take the poll!

Thanks, Fleaman

Well, after I sold my Benq 6100 I started placing some funds in the spot where the pj used to sit. Now, there is finally enough money to buy the H31, but some other bills are pressing. The wait goes on....

Tom,
I posted this earlier, but here it is again:

If you are almost at max zoom for a 92" diag. image at 14" back, do you think you could get something as small as an 84" diag. at that same distance? I need the H31 to be back about 13 or 14', but want the image to be no larger than 84" diag., or the image will show up on my speakers. Could you try it out and let me know?

Originally posted by guitarman
Thanks guys, I haven't a clue on HTPC.

12' limited users the H31 will not do a 92" wide image at 12'. It will at 12'5". Better shoot for the next size down.

'Jedi'

I think that this could be really bad news for you. If the H31 can do 92" WIDE at 12'5", then I'm not sure that 84" diagonal is doable. Someone will have to try it out or crunch some numbers on the calculator.

Remember, when Tom states 92" WIDE, he means as in width, not diagonal. This measures out to 106" diagonally if I'm not mistaken. So going a further 1'6" back in your room will probably ruin your chances of an 84" diagonal. In fact, I'm not even sure that the H31 will do an 84" diagonal from 12'5".

I hope for your sake I'm wrong though. It's a bummer when a projector you have your eyes on won't work out due to placement restrictions in your room.

Good luck!

Wayne

jedi,

i plugged it into the calculator and it sure doesnt look like it's going to work. to get an 84" diag the projector should be 12.2 feet back. i could be wrong (i'm still waiting for my h31 to be delivered) but that's the projector calc says.

nate

I've got a question about Setting the Contrast on the H31.

I ran Video Essentials on it, and when you do the contrast settings, I could not get any distortion at all whether the contrast was all off or all on.

So my question is... What is the correct setting? Since the test in Video Essentials showed it to be set correctly at ANY setting, will leaving it at a higher contrast setting casue problems? I know with CRT's it would kill the tubes faster, but what about DLP? Will the bulb die faster? Is there any downside?

Was wondering..

TH

I recently bought DVE but I have to confess that I haven't found the time to try it out yet.

However, I do have AVIA and you can set the contrast by observing two vertical bars that move back and forth. If you set the contrast level too high, the bars disappear. The correct setting is where the two bars are just barely visible.

Perhaps DVE has something similar. I'll have to check that out.

Wayne

That is similar to the Video Essentials test.. but the bars DO NOT MOVE.. They are rock solid..

I have a question. I am about to hook up some HDTV to the H31. In the manual there is information on 1080i, and how you can choose how to view it, but nothing about 720p....On the 1080i you can scale it to 960x540 and display the midle 854x480...does the 720p just get scaled to 480?

Also, the manual shows a 1080i mode option in the user controls, right below the 4:3 mode setting...but on my projector I can not see this choice. Does it only show up in the menu when it sees a 1080i signal?

thehuntsouth

Directions on test pattern DVDs are for CRTs. Ignore them. You will never get the test patterns to distort on any digital display. Not sure which pattern to use on DVE - but on AVIA the same pattern you use for CRT has near white moving bars in the white field. If those are clipped your contrast is too high. IN DVE I think you use a grey ramp pattern to look at the near whites.

I'm new to the boards here, and I'd like to compliment everyone here for all the great info!

I plan on buying an H31 in the next few weeks, and I have a quick question:

1. For a DIY mount (similar to BreakStuff's), what size bolts will I need for connecting the mounting plate to the projector. The Sanyo Z1 and Z2 apparently use M6 bolts - anyone know what size the Optoma H31 takes?

Nevermind - I just checked the Optoma website, and according to the manual, it takes M3 bolts.

Originally posted by jedi35
Well, after I sold my Benq 6100 I started placing some funds in the spot where the pj used to sit. Now, there is finally enough money to buy the H31, but some other bills are pressing. The wait goes on....

Tom,
I posted this earlier, but here it is again:

If you are almost at max zoom for a 92" diag. image at 14" back, do you think you could get something as small as an 84" diag. at that same distance? I need the H31 to be back about 13 or 14', but want the image to be no larger than 84" diag., or the image will show up on my speakers. Could you try it out and let me know?

Hi, I saw your post earlier and have note for that ? and calibrated lumens for the other gentleman next time I set the H31 back up.

(13 or 14'/ no larger than 84" diag./not wide right?)

Hey Tom,

That's correct, I want to see if it's possible to get a small 84" diagonal image from 13 or 14' back. It sounds like I can't. However, I do have a few feet of adjustment to play with, as my screen is in a portable casing on the floor, and I can move my couch as well as the platform that the pj will sit on. What would be easiest is if the pj can function in the same spot as where my Benq 6100 sat, but the Benq was a long throw pj. I may have to setup a platform in front of my couch and move the couch back a bit, since you said that the H31 has no light spill out the back. One way or the other, I'm going to get this thing to work. I made a deposit and should be able to order tomorrow morning!! Exciting...

I've been loving the H31, so when I got a new VCR, yes some people still use vcr's, I had to plug it into the H31. Now I just used the video rca jack, which is probably the worst thing to use but you can't find a vcr with a better port anymore.

To my suprise the picture wasn't bad and I only have extended cable not even digital. As I moved up the channels the picture improved when I got to HBO the picture was down right gorgeous.

I can't wait for the day I upgrade HD cable, the picture will be unbeliveable. You guys that have it must just freak people out when they see it. I love showing this projector to friends and watching there jaws drop.

Just some info for another way to hook up this great little projector for everyone thinking of buying the H31

tomgarz

Originally posted by guitarman
Hi, I saw your post earlier and have note for that ? and calibrated lumens for the other gentleman next time I set the H31 back up.

(13 or 14'/ no larger than 84" diag./not wide right?)

thanks guitar, i look forward to hearing back from you in regards to calibrated lumen output :)

UPS is delivering my H31 tomorrow. Does anyone here have a H31
ccf file for the pronto remote.

H31 after colorfacts calibration, results 2000.1cr, gamma 2.19.

Ft/lamberts w/light meter 9.10 / 92"wide screen, 1.0gain matwhite
Ft/lamberts w/tri-chromat colorfacts sensor 13.65 -sensor faces the PJ.

User picture - Cinema
contrast -22
bright -4
Clr 29
Shrp 28
gamma 1

Image - Film
Color temp 2

Advanced adjustments
red contrast 1
green contrast 4
blue contrast -2

red brightness -3
green bright 0
blue bright 5



Service code
Up + Enter 2X
Left + Enter 2X

Up + Left + Down 1X

Move around with cross controls, enter to enter an area, in some spots enter will back you out, if not menu will back you out.

Service area settings, write down your originals.

Picture
gain red 139
gain green 130
gain blue 131

bias red 126
bias green 120
bias blue 117

DLP = All 32

ADC
red gain 177
gr gain 167
bl gain 175

red offset 70
gr offset 72
bl offset 61

All this is for an analog DVD player in progressive, I used a Phillips Q50 but any good player with good blacks and natural color like Panasonics, JVC's etc may give you good results also. If after you make all these changes and the image looks super natural, consider yourself very close to D6500k. good luck.


Re screen size pj 14'back, min zoom 85"wide 96"diag.

Tom, are you saying that at 14' the smallest image one can get is 96" diagonally or is that the largest?

guitarman, thanks so much for the post

forgive me, but is there a formula for converting the lambert reading to actual lumens? i tried to google, but couldn't find anything...

Hey, thanks for all that info, Tom!! It looks like I will have to get the pj out in front of my couch a bit. Could you explain a little clearer how to get into service mode? I don't quite understand. Can it be accessed from the remote, or do you have to press the buttons on the pj?

I ordered my H31 this morning, and it should be here by the middle of next week. Can I stand the wait??

mystery,
I think Tom is saying that the smallest diagonal image you can get at 14' is 96".

I plan on using my Philips 727 DVD player with my H31 pj when it comes in. Should I upgrade the DVD player? I bought the 727 b/c it converts PAL to NTSC discs properly and was easily region hacked (simple remote hack) - I have a few non-R1 discs that I'd love to be able to watch on the "big screen." I'm currently using component cables and plan to use them with the pj.

My question is this: will I get a noticeably better pq with a different DVD player?

Any help is much appreciated.

Does anyone know of a Receiver that has 2 dvi inputs and a single DVI output that handles both DVI-D and DVI-A, or just DVI-I, along with the standards, DTS and optical in, etc.
i know this isnt exactly the right forum for this, but am familiar with this one and its people... so yeah...
i just want to hook up both my HTPC and DVD player through DVI and i know switches cost like 200+ so maybe a new reciever would be easier and better for the money... thanks

Arty

You access the service code by keying on the projector. Once in the remote will just do enter and menu functions, I had to use the pj to cursor up and down.

Originally posted by guitarman
H31 after colorfacts calibration, results 2000.1cr, gamma 2.19.

Ft/lamberts w/light meter 9.10 / 92"wide screen, 1.0gain matwhite
Ft/lamberts w/tri-chromat colorfacts sensor 13.65 -sensor faces the PJ.



guitarman,

what should we make of the difference - is the light meter a screen reading and suffering some absorption/diffusion loss from the matte white screen? I had similar loss with DaGamePimps blackout cloth screen (thought it was Eye-One sensor - but others think it was the screen)

Is the Colorfacts sensor back on the screen for similar image size?

billymac

you should search AVS not google for AV help! You would find Jhouse has it in his signature.

ftL = Lumens*gain/square_feet

gain is 1.0 with a facing projector reading - and then you have to measure the image size at the sensor - not on the screen.

guitarman

Also for those who don't want to adjust service menus - what Kelvin does each color temperature come closest too out of the box.

Gamma 1 is 2.2 (same as film on SP4805)

I recall the H30 was 7500K, 9500K, 11500K for color temp 1,2,3 - is it the same here?

Thanks Tom. Can anyone educate me about what kind of dvi cable(s) I'll need for the H31? Do you have a source on the net with reasonable prices? Does the connection have to be a specific type at the pj and the source end? So far, all my sources put out dvi digital I think, but it would be nice to be able to send analog vga signals through dvi. Thanks.

Originally posted by krasmuzik
billymac

you should search AVS not google for AV help! You would find Jhouse has it in his signature.

ftL = Lumens*gain/square_feet

gain is 1.0 with a facing projector reading - and then you have to measure the image size at the sensor - not on the screen.

Do I have this right?

9.10ft/L = L*1.0/33.21 Lumens=302

13.65ft/L = L*1.0/33.21 Lumens=453

Kras, I don't understand "you have to measure image size at the sensor?" Does that mean the above is not correct.

BTW, I am an English/Poli Sci major. Numbers and math are NOT my game:D

therealgeno

If the sensor was 3ft from the projector - then the ftL would be huge - but you might only have a 3ft image. Lumens remains the same.

So it is important to know the sqft at the sensor - not at the screen (unless the sensor was reading the screen but then you might suffer screen loss)

But yes in short it is Lumens = ftL*sqft for a projector rather than screen reading. guitarman needs to confirm the sqft and screen vs. projector readings.

Originally posted by krasmuzik
guitarman

Also for those who don't want to adjust service menus - what Kelvin does each color temperature come closest too out of the box.

Gamma 1 is 2.2 (same as film on SP4805)

I recall the H30 was 7500K, 9500K, 11500K for color temp 1,2,3 - is it the same here?

Yes it's about the same CT1 is 1000k over 65k. Not too bad I think that's the factories preferred ct. Just about all the reviews I read show the factory temp on the blue side, most every model.

Here we like the warm look of 6500k. You either call an ISF or rent/buy a tuning program.

Originally posted by jedi35
Thanks Tom. Can anyone educate me about what kind of dvi cable(s) I'll need for the H31? Do you have a source on the net with reasonable prices? Does the connection have to be a specific type at the pj and the source end? So far, all my sources put out dvi digital I think, but it would be nice to be able to send analog vga signals through dvi. Thanks.

A DVI-i or DVI-D cable will work. You can send RGB thru DVI with the H31. Pretty sure the 31 comes with a VGA to DVI adaptor. One thing Optoma is great for adding adaptors in the package. Cables are hit or miss for signal quality. I bought a 25' one for $59 that works with the D1 and Tosh plus cable TV, but not with the D2. Shorter cables have less chance of fouling the signal if you can go shorter.

Originally posted by krasmuzik
guitarman,

what should we make of the difference - is the light meter a screen reading and suffering some absorption/diffusion loss from the matte white screen? I had similar loss with DaGamePimps blackout cloth screen (thought it was Eye-One sensor - but others think it was the screen)

Is the Colorfacts sensor back on the screen for similar image size?

billymac

you should search AVS not google for AV help! You would find Jhouse has it in his signature.

ftL = Lumens*gain/square_feet

gain is 1.0 with a facing projector reading - and then you have to measure the image size at the sensor - not on the screen.

I aimed both meters at the projector from the screen distance.

92" wide 52" high screen, meter 14' back from the pj lens

Wonder why so much sensor difference?

I'm really juggling on what to buy the H31 or the 4805, there are no dealers that display either of these projectors so it is really hard to pull the trigger on one or the other. Has anyone put these two side by side? I have on order a 92" M2500 and should be in next week.

I was able to get into the service menu, and adjust the picture, but the ADC menu is the only one that will not let me access. Any reason why?

Thanks again, Tom. If I have a dvi-d cable, isn't it true that this cable is digital only, and will not allow an rgb analog signal through? I know that dvi-i cable can do both analog and digital. Maybe dvi-i is the safest way to go, so that I can get both, right? I'll probably be ok with a 12' run, but 15' would be better. Is that too long for optimal signal purity?

Originally posted by foxdvd
I was able to get into the service menu, and adjust the picture, but the ADC menu is the only one that will not let me access. Any reason why?

You were planning on trying my numbers? ADC is un-whited out with a progressive signal. You must hv had interlaced going.

Tom talked about this a little bit in the early days of this thread (notice how it has mushroomed?), but as more people have been buying the H31 and are developing personal experiences with it, I have the following question: how is the picture with 480i over component cables? IOW, a plain-jane DVD player over component.

I have already wired my HT room (ok, more like den, but that sounds less grandiose) with nine RG6 cables (the conventional wisdom for the X1 a year ago) in the ceiling, back before the sheetrock went up, so there's no running DVI anymore. Unless of course someone has figured out a way to rig up DVI connectors at both ends of a bundle of RG6 cables (9 * 2 = 18 conductors).

Thanks for any input.

The H31 has an excellent scaler and deinterlacer so you analog interlaced signal will look sharp and pick up the 2.3pulldown very well. The deinterlacer performs closely with the early faroudja type deinterlacer. You'll be ok.

To uwradu,
I am curious what you need 18 RG6 cables for in your home theater setup? Did you run them through some kind of conduit. If you so desired, could you pull some of them out from one end or the other. Just thinking somewhat outside the box, you could possibly feed a DVI cable through by pulling out your older cables. In the electrical business, I believe they call that a wire pull. Also if need be you could run your DVI cable inside your room itself, though I'm sure you would rather not do that. Just a couple of ideas.
Peace,
Shiva

Originally posted by shivaji
I am curious what you need 18 RG6 cables for in your home theater setup? Did you run them through some kind of conduit.
It's 9 cables, not 18. But since each cable has two conductors (center conductor plus jacket), that results in a total of 18 conductors, which could all be used independently for any kind of cable that requires 18 or less conductors. And no, I don't have a conduit.

I've toyed with the idea of a conduit, but for the DVI connector you need at least a 3 inch conduit, and I wasn't prepared to drill such a large hole through the joists. This is a 110 year old house with lumber joists, and since the joists run perpendicular to the viewing direction, I'd have had to drill through all but one or two joists of the ceiling. I guess I was too chicken, fearing to weaken the bedroom floor above. Instead I used existing holes from the old knob-and-tube wiring and gas lighting pipes (which I removed) to thread the 9 RG6 wires through. Back in the X1 days many people were running separate cables for the different inputs, so I followed the common advice.

The 18 conductors could theoretically be used as a basis for all sorts of cables, but it seems kind of tricky to break out the fragile DVI or HDMI connectors. I could also run Ethernet over these cables if anybody made a streaming video projector, but of course they don't. Or I could install one of those digital streaming media players in the ceiling above the projector, and run Ethernet to it. But those players are still maturing at the moment.

Lenny, For me, the call was so close, overall, on the 4805 and the h31 that final cost was deciding factor. By the way, I bought the Infocus and the 'noice' is a non-factor. The colors, the brightness, the contrast all are there. The 4805 puts out a great image at 76 inches. And I imagine the h31 does as well.

I am wondering if the H31 can display progressive component through its VGA input. Currently I have a 30 foot component to RGB cable embedded in the ceiling feeding an NEC VT540 from the progressive output of an RP56.
I would like to retain this setup for obvious reasons.

The H31 doesn't have a vga input. However, it does come with a vga to dvi adapter, which can handle progressive signals, so you'd be ok.

Thanks Jedi. Do you think I will be compromising the picture using this connection?

Thanks Jedi. Do you think I will be compromising the picture using this connection? Do all picture controls remain available?

Originally posted by jedi35
Thanks again, Tom. If I have a dvi-d cable, isn't it true that this cable is digital only, and will not allow an rgb analog signal through? I know that dvi-i cable can do both analog and digital. Maybe dvi-i is the safest way to go, so that I can get both, right? I'll probably be ok with a 12' run, but 15' would be better. Is that too long for optimal signal purity?

I just asked Wing because I have a DVI-I cable, he said either one would work. Maybe he was just talking about the digital signal though.

He's in Taiwan for two weeks, if you need an answer fast better call the tech area.

Originally posted by guitarman
You were planning on trying my numbers? ADC is un-whited out with a progressive signal. You must hv had interlaced going.


Well I wanted to start with your numbers as a base, and see if it made a difference.

I did not have any source in the projector at the time so that might be why the ADC was not active.


Also, my queastion a few pages back about why I had no menu choice for 1080i, I was right in that it has to have a 1080 source before that option even shows up in the menu.....

Also, I made a mistake by hitting factory reset in the service menu thinking it would get my numbers back right. I did write them down like guitarman said, so I was able to get them back, but it reset my bulb hours to zero. Not a big deal, as I had 48 hours on it, but now I know... :)

Originally posted by mangopony
Lenny, For me, the call was so close, overall, on the 4805 and the h31 that final cost was deciding factor.


I would say cost was not a factor for me..... but since we can not talk price I can not go into it, but I will say that street price seems to be lower now on the H31. I actually saved money going with the H31...can't say how much though.

Originally posted by foxdvd
I would say cost was not a factor for me..... but since we can not talk price I can not go into it, but I will say that street price seems to be lower now on the H31. I actually saved money going with the H31...can't say how much though.

Get ready for an onslaught of PM's.:D

Originally posted by foxdvd
Well I wanted to start with your numbers as a base, and see if it made a difference.

I did not have any source in the projector at the time so that might be why the ADC was not active.


Also, my queastion a few pages back about why I had no menu choice for 1080i, I was right in that it has to have a 1080 source before that option even shows up in the menu.....

Also, I made a mistake by hitting factory reset in the service menu thinking it would get my numbers back right. I did write them down like guitarman said, so I was able to get them back, but it reset my bulb hours to zero. Not a big deal, as I had 48 hours on it, but now I know... :)

Lmk how it goes with all the numbers dialed in? Great if it works.

Originally posted by uwradu
It's 9 cables, not 18. But since each cable has two conductors (center conductor plus jacket), that results in a total of 18 conductors, which could all be used independently for any kind of cable that requires 18 or less conductors. And no, I don't have a conduit.

I've toyed with the idea of a conduit, but for the DVI connector you need at least a 3 inch conduit, and I wasn't prepared to drill such a large hole through the joists. This is a 110 year old house with lumber joists, and since the joists run perpendicular to the viewing direction, I'd have had to drill through all but one or two joists of the ceiling. I guess I was too chicken, fearing to weaken the bedroom floor above. Instead I used existing holes from the old knob-and-tube wiring and gas lighting pipes (which I removed) to thread the 9 RG6 wires through. Back in the X1 days many people were running separate cables for the different inputs, so I followed the common advice.

The 18 conductors could theoretically be used as a basis for all sorts of cables, but it seems kind of tricky to break out the fragile DVI or HDMI connectors. I could also run Ethernet over these cables if anybody made a streaming video projector, but of course they don't. Or I could install one of those digital streaming media players in the ceiling above the projector, and run Ethernet to it. But those players are still maturing at the moment.


you could use gefens DVI to CAT5 extensions distribution system. http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=2515 though it MSRPs at $500

Yep Tom, it sounds like I should buy a dvi-i cable just to be sure that I can get analog signals through it too. Better safe than sorry.

MAK,
I won't have my H31 until sometime next week, so I don't know what menu items a vga signal will provide until then. I would guess that there's no loss of analog signal quality if good adapters are used(or atleast it should not be very visible).

I'm about to order a H31.

PC Nation has this listed:

KIT SKU H31 DLP HOME THEATER W/92IN 16:9 PULL DWN SCRN

This package is around $150 more than teh projector by itself.

Does anyone know anything about this 92 in screen? Can I get something better for $150 or would this be good beginner screen?

Thanks for any help you can offer.

Thanks guys, I did find the H31 at an awesome price and at a big name store (bought over the internet w free shipping). The price was generally 10-15 percent less than the 4805. I'm ordering the 92" M2500 Onyx screen tomorrow...can't wait to set everything up.

Hmmmm I'm going to have to go looking - thx!

To btacker,
my brother researched that screen deal and found it to be a 92" diagonal screen. Hopefully, you will want to project a larger picture than that.

Anybody had anymore experiences with a HTPC yet?


peace

Hi, all!
Newbe here! I want to buy Optoma 2300 Lumens EzPro745 vs Optoma H31. It is about the same price. Is the better resolution and better lumen would translate in a better dvd output?

Thanks!

Bobdoc

shivaji,

I have more wall, but I was worried about pushing the screen size. How big do you think that the h31 can go?

Also, the room I am looking at using will have indirect ambient light. Can the H31 and its 850 lumens work well in this type of environment?

Thanks for the help!

Originally posted by Bobdoc
Hi, all!
Newbe here! I want to buy Optoma 2300 Lumens EzPro745 vs Optoma H31. It is about the same price. Is the better resolution and better lumen would translate in a better dvd output?

Thanks!

Bobdoc

Forget about it, it's a board room presentation projector. You'll lose the color battle and rainbow battle.
good luck,

Originally posted by btacker
shivaji,

I have more wall, but I was worried about pushing the screen size. How big do you think that the h31 can go?

Also, the room I am looking at using will have indirect ambient light. Can the H31 and its 850 lumens work well in this type of environment?

Thanks for the help!

As for the first question. I project mine on a 92" High Gain M2500...and I can tell you right now I could make it bigger. The color, contrast, everything is perfect, and I have to keep two 15 watt bulbs that have a dark glass cover on or it is a bit to brite. I have no way of saying for sure, but I think it could project on a 110+ screen if it was a high gain screen, and still look fantastic. Someone else will have to tell you how it looks on other screens of that size.


As for light. As long as my main lights are not on, or there is not direct sun-light on the screen, I can view movies and tv shows with a lot of light. The room can be brite enough to read in, and it still looks fantastic. If a strong light source crosses the projector path, or hits the screen it starts to wash out....once again this might have a lot to do with my screen...and not the projector.

I ordered an H31 to replace my Infocus X1. I'm planning on using my same ceiling mount. I'll just drill new holes in the mounting plate.

Anyone know what size machine screws fit in the bottom of the H31?

Thanks

Originally posted by ChrisDuncan
I ordered an H31 to replace my Infocus X1. I'm planning on using my same ceiling mount. I'll just drill new holes in the mounting plate.

Anyone know what size machine screws fit in the bottom of the H31?

Thanks

Bottom of page 41: Exister reported that Optoma website says M3 bolts.;)

Well Tom, looks like I turned full circle concerning the dvi cable. I've determined that three of my souces have dvi-d outputs and 2 have dvi-i, but are only putting out a digital signal. That means that there's really no need to try and send my H31 anything other than a digital signal over the dvi cable. So, I'll buy a dvi-d cable, since it should still work with a dvi-i connector, right?

Are there any advantages to sending an analog signal into a dvi connector as opposed to a standard analog connector like vga or component? Component sources would need to hit a component to vga adapter first, and then a vga to dvi adapter. Thus, going through 2 adapters before it even hits the pj, the signal might be subject to some sort of degradation that might not be present if one just ran component cables into the component input, right? I think someone else asked this question, and I guessed that there wouldn't be a loss of quality. Now I'm not so sure. What do you think? Maybe the only advantage of sending an analog signal into a dvi connector is to add the convenience of one more connector for switching.

jedi,

Sounds like an interesting experiment if you have the adapters available to do a test. I'm curious to know if the signal degradation is only theory or real.

The availability of running component thru the DVI port is for convenience of an extra component line. A cable co says you'll get more signal with the 75ohm long distant cable run. I used a 25' C/vga cable and never saw a difference. So basically use what will make setup easiest for you.

Jedi, I asked that question about using a VGA connector. Actually my cable is component on one side and VGA on the pj side so I would only be going through one adapter: VGA to dvi.

Your comments indicate that dvi inputs can handle analog signals fine. I thought dvi was a digital only connection.

Does the H31 come with a vga to dvi adapter? I think in Canada it is an extra cost option. Can anyone clarify.

MAK

Tom, you and I posted at the same time. I think you have answered the questions I just listed.

Thanks

Oh! last question still not answered. Any Canadians care to comment on vga to dvi adapter being optional in Canada and at extra cost.

MAK

Originally posted by ChrisDuncan
I ordered an H31 to replace my Infocus X1. I'm planning on using my same ceiling mount. I'll just drill new holes in the mounting plate.

Anyone know what size machine screws fit in the bottom of the H31?

Thanks

chris which mount do you have? the original x1 mount? or is it some type of universal?

Originally posted by MAK
Tom, you and I posted at the same time. I think you have answered the questions I just listed.

Thanks

VGA to DVI adapter's right there in the accessory box for me. The manual states both vga/dvi & dvi/hdmi adapters s/b in the accessory line up. It's says to check to see yours are intact.

Ok I'm testing the vga/dvi adaptor now image looks very good, clean and void of video noise, just like component. On the remote there are discrete buttons, one for DVI-digital, one for DVI-rgb.

Originally posted by MAK
Oh! last question still not answered. Any Canadians care to comment on vga to dvi adapter being optional in Canada and at extra cost.
I believe mine came with the VGA-2-DVI connector but not the HDMI one as claimed in the manual.

Yes, the Canadian boxes don't have the HDMI to DVI adapter in them. Only the DVI to VGA. Too bad because they cost about $50.00 here.

Hey MAK, we're both in the same city! :)

Small world isn't it?

Wayne

Ok, that makes sense. A longer run of a component cable will lose signal, but the vga cable should maintain better. I'll buy into that. I see that already, as I run a 25' vga cable to my Pioneer 53" rptv from sources in another room, and the picture quality is quite good.

Ok, the good news is that my new Optoma H31 pj is actually here in my house. The bad news is that up until a few minutes ago, when I opened my front door, anybody in my neighborhood could have had a free wonderful new pj!! Yep, the FedEx driver just simply left an expensive piece of gear right outside my front door, and kept on trucking. he must have arrived early, and I didn't hear the knock(my doorbell is unreliable).

I just placed the order for the pj last Friday, and was told that the package would arrive Tuesday or Wed., and that I would get an email with my tracking info in it. I'd not received that email as of this morning, so I surfed to the Page Computers site, and checked my status. Lo and behold, the site(not a personal email) had all my tracking info, and I checked it. The pj left Texas on the same day I ordered it, and was actually being shown as "out for delivery " from the Earth City FedEx Center. Delivery was to be made by 4:30pm tomorrow.

I called FedEx to make arrangements for what to do if I'm not here for delivery, seeing that I can't have a pj just sitting outside for anyone to take. I was told that I could leave a note about the neighbor who would receive the package for me, but that I might have it delivered as early as today. So, I opened the door to put up the note, and saw a big package, kind of half hidden by the bushes. How's that for Page Computers and FedEx taking care of an expensive piece of electronics? A word of advice...if you order from them, be sure to make arrangements for your package to be taken care of if you are not home.

Well, it's here. After the unit warms up a bit, I'll fire it up, and give you all my initial impressions. I'm going to order a long enough dvi-d cable right now, as I won't need to do a very long run of component cables for my analog signals.

Jedi,

It's a good thing that you're honest. I could see someone claiming that since the pj wasn't signed for, it must have been stolen.

These delivery companies scare the willies out of me. I might be going through the exact same experience as you in March because I'm ordering the H31 in the next two weeks.

Give us a review when you can!

Wayne

Originally posted by guitarman
VGA to DVI adapter's right there in the accessory box for me. The manual states both vga/dvi & dvi/hdmi adapters s/b in the accessory line up. It's says to check to see yours are intact.

Ok I'm testing the vga/dvi adaptor now image looks very good, clean and void of video noise, just like component. On the remote there are discrete buttons, one for DVI-digital, one for DVI-rgb.


The manual DOES indicate that the DVI to HDMI adapter is included but mine did not; neither did a friend's that bought one. I contacted Optoma about it and they said it's an optional accessory. They will update the manual to reflect this. :(

Well, I've been waiting for the unit to warm up, as it got quite cold sitting outside. I'm afraid that it could be dangerous to just turn it on when it's so cold to the touch. Do you guys think I'm right to worry? I finally sat the unit next to a space heater, and it is getting warmer now. I'll give it another half hour or so, and try it then.

BTW, the box it arrived in was quite flimsy, and looked a bit beat up. Even the interior box had dents in it. Not good. The pj itself seems undamaged, as it was inside the padded carrying case as well, but I won't know for sure til I fire it up. I'm also pissed because I got the dvi to vga adapter, but not the one for hdmi. Who's responsible for this...Page Computers or Optoma?

Edit...I just read the post about the adapter being optional. Does anyone know how much it costs from Optoma?

Mystery, it surely is a small world. Uptill this point I was beginning to think I was the only one this crazy about AV stuff in little ol' London.
Please check your inbox, I am sending you a PM.

Cheers,
Mak

Here are my initial impressions of my H31. I posted this on another thread for readers who don't know a lot about this pj, so please forgive how it sounds:

OK, first report about the new pj: it's seriously good!! I'm keeping it. The unit was not damaged inspite of the rough shipping. When I first fired it up, I only plugged in svideo, and ran an analog cable signal. I did this with my Benq as well, since I want to see the progression from the worst possible kind of signal up to the best. Some adjustments are needed to clean up the out of the box picture. The resolution was great from the first moment, but the image was way too bright and washed out. I brought the brightness down quite a bit, and upped the contrast a little. Then I started seeing excellent black levels, contrast, and awesome colors!! The colors are way more vibrant than the Benq 6100, even at the 0 setting. I haven't seen very many rainbows, even with shaking my head from side to side a lot. I've have seen a couple, but I'm glad that you really have to go out of your way to find them. Blues and greens are out of this world....reds can be a little orangy, but maybe that can be adjusted.

I was concerned about the pj having a brightness rating of 850 lumens, even with the excellent reports from other owners. I was stunned to see that the picture is really bright and vibrant. As much or more than the Benq, which is rated at 1500 lumens. I don't know how Optoma did this. I even turned on all the lights in the room, and still got a watchable picture, just a lesser black level and softer colors. No problem.

I'm still playing around with getting the image shape right with the temporary surface the pj is sitting on. I know that things aren't as level as they should be, so the image isn't as even as it can be, but that will take more time and experimentation. I'm not worried.

Right now, after having watched analog cable for a few hours, I can say that this pj looks as good with svideo as the same channels did through component cables on the Benq. Sharpness is excellent, and the pixel structure seems tighter, as if there is more resolution. I see no screendoor from where I'm sitting, which is about 1.5X my screen width. The image offset seems about normal for a pj, which is good. So far, the svideo performance(as a result of the excellent deinterlacer inside the H31) is killing what the Benq did with svideo signals. When I first fired up my Benq with svideo, I couldn't wait to get a vga signal going. With the Optoma, I'm still watching svideo after several hours and loving it. Cool. Next, I'll hookup some component cables. It's nice that the H31 has 3:2 pulldown...the Benq didn't.

This unit is really quiet. In fact, my console humidifier across the room is a lot noisier. It does help that the pj is venting in front, and it's sitting in front of my couch, but I can tell that it's still a lot quieter than my Benq was.

The H31 is in economy mode, and there are many other settings that I still need to look at. It's on a video setting right now for films, gamma is 1, and most of the user settings are at around 0 for now, with plenty of room to get brighter and darker. It seems that I will be able to get darker blacks with this pj. I'm quite excited!!(I'm shooting an 84' image onto a matte white 1.0 gain screen, and the pj is sitting on a surface)

What a "jedi kNight" you had! :D

Nice review. That makes sense. Start with your worst possible case scenario by feeding s-video or even composite if the connector is there for it and then work your way up all the way to DVI and make notes and compare visuals along the way. It'll be like getting a new projector each time you switch to a better cable.

Very cool!! Glad you're enjoying this. I can hardly wait to upgrade from my X1 (I'm going to miss this little powerhouse) in the next couple of weeks.

Your orangey levels comment is a little disconcerting though. See if you can report back with any tweaks that might turn them more toward a true red.

Great job jedi!

Wayne

I've had my replacement H31 for one day so far. I can say that I'm 99% sure that it won't pixel map with a HTPC over VGA. I don't have a DVI cable to test that input but I'm not hopefull. This is a fine projector for a non techy person that wants to hookup their cable box and progessive dvd player but if you a rabid HTPC user this is not the projector for you. I even tried the powerstrip settings that work on the Infocus 4805 but nothing yielded any results. I'm using an ATI radeon card for all my testing.

This is not good news. I assume that you're using Powerstrip. How close can you get to 1:1?

Sounds great Jedi, I should have mine in by Thursday. So do you think watching standard DirecTV through the S-cable be too distracting or is the PQ decent enough?

This is not good news. I assume that you're using Powerstrip. How close can you get to 1:1?

Yes I'm using Powerstrip. The best I can do is 720x480 at 48Hz. This provides the cleanest image that doesn't crop the desktop.

Originally posted by Arty13
With HTPC, i am having no problems what so ever with getting the res to be 854x480 with my ATI Radeon 9600 Pro with digital DVI, and i see no tearing or sync problems either, but i cant take the res so big for a pc, the only way i use it at the res is when i watch movies, but otherwise i am using 1280x720
ohh yeah... i'm using powerstrip too... so people stop complaining about HTPC and just try harder... and just get it right.... :P

This would seem to indicate that 1:1 is indeed possible.

I hope that we all can achieve this success if we wish to.

Guitarman and DaGamePimp,

Any insight on this?

Wayne

Originally posted by jedi35
Well, I've been waiting for the unit to warm up, as it got quite cold sitting outside. I'm afraid that it could be dangerous to just turn it on when it's so cold to the touch. Do you guys think I'm right to worry? I finally sat the unit next to a space heater, and it is getting warmer now. I'll give it another half hour or so, and try it then.

BTW, the box it arrived in was quite flimsy, and looked a bit beat up. Even the interior box had dents in it. Not good. The pj itself seems undamaged, as it was inside the padded carrying case as well, but I won't know for sure til I fire it up. I'm also pissed because I got the dvi to vga adapter, but not the one for hdmi. Who's responsible for this...Page Computers or Optoma?

Edit...I just read the post about the adapter being optional. Does anyone know how much it costs from Optoma?

Says in the manual yes but there wasn't a HDMI adaptor in mine also. If you want it you could take it up with the cust service area at Optoma. It could be something they decided to leave out of the accessories list though.

jedi35,

Don't forget to take the OTB calibration poll!

:D

Fleaman

chrisduncan

you get yours yet? which mount do you have? please comment when you can.

Still loving this projector. This is by far the best Home theater investment I have ever made, and one of the cheapest as well. If you do not count my screen I paid less for this than my regular TV, and my receiver. Even counting the screen I paid less than I did on my speakers....half as much.

Now I feel it is time to upgrade my DVD player. I have a Sony NS725P, and find that I get a better image by sending a 480i signal. I really don't feel the need to buy an upconverting DVD player, but at what price point will I find a dvd player with a better processor then the Optoma?

Some players quoted in this thread are no longer made, so what current players should I look at? Will I need to spend 300 bucks or more?

mystery,
I'm glad you like my review. This is quite a machine. I'm loving it. I stayed up til about 4am, as you all might have guessed. The problem was that I had to sleep fast and teach at 8:45am(and I made it!!). I moved up the ladder to the component connection, which is, and should be, better than the svideo. I couldn't believe the increase in image quality and resolution. Even if this pj didn't have dvi, the component signal resolution should serve anyone very well. I watched the same channels through svideo, then flipped to component. Although component is superior, the svideo signal is still about as good as it can get for SD, in my eyes. I like the remore, but you have to realize that I'm coming from a crappy little cardlike Benq remote with buttons that were hard to press. The H31's remote buttons are easy to press, they all light up red each time one is pressed(and then they slowly fade off--cool), and I love the fact that things can be accessed individually(sources, AR controls, picture controls, ect. Very convenient. I do wish that Optoma had given us 2 adjustable back legs instead of one. This can be a big deal to those who want to table mount it. So far the flashing green light for standby mode hasn't been much of a problem, but time will tell.

The orangy reds seemed to be better with the purity of the component signal, though it's not totally gone. I want to get used to how the pj looks right now before I mess with the finer settings too much. Right now my settings are at or close to 0 in most areas. I really do think that the H31 looks like an HD2+ pj, especially with a component signal. The color is chunked full of saturated eye candy, even at setting 0. That's crazy!! I have seen more rainbows through component, but I'm not worried, since I tend to see fewer and fewer the more I watch. I have to remember that I haven't had a pj in the house for awhile. Oops, I should be careful about blaming the rainbows on the component signal. Maybe it was the programming, since certain scenes can cause one to see more rainbows than normal.

Lenny 2112,
Yes, the svideo input should be good enough to watch without distraction. I watched it for several hours last night, and didn't feel like I needed to rush to hook up component. I can't imagine the Faroudja chip for deinterlacing to be any better than what's in the H31(is it Pixelworks?).

fleaman,
Thanks for the reminder. I will take the poll.

Jedi: I think I'll set mine up like you did using the ladder! I like that mind psycology.. :D plus it'll help me learn more about this HT stuff. You made my day, and I can't wait til the H31 arrives.

Fox: I was actually looking for an upscaling dvd player to push some HD content throught the DVI. I bought the Sammy 841 but from the reviews that I have heard I'll probably be sending it back. From all the reviews I can't nail down what would be the best DVD player for the H31, so I'm in the same boat but I would like an upscaling DVD player....I think?

If anyone has a good combo for the DVD to H31 please let us know!

Originally posted by billymac
chrisduncan

you get yours yet? which mount do you have? please comment when you can.

Hey Billy. Mine arrived today but I won't get a chance to set it up till tonight. My mount is an aftermarket one for the X1 that I got off ebay. They sell the same mount for other PJs but just have different holes in the mounting plate.

I picked up a bunch of M3 bolts from work and will drill new holes tonight. I can see already that the mounting plate will easily be big enough after seeing the spacing between the holes on the bottom of the M31.

When I get a chance I'll send you a link to an ebay ad with the exact mount I have if you want so you can see how its size compares to yours.

yeah, that'd be great

i have the older style infocus one for the x1, before they started making the semi-"universal" one...

also your initial impressions as an x1 owner to h31 would be great too

don't forget the link too, thanks!

Originally posted by LENNY 2112


Fox: I was actually looking for an upscaling dvd player to push some HD content throught the DVI. I bought the Sammy 841 but from the reviews that I have heard I'll probably be sending it back. From all the reviews I can't nail down what would be the best DVD player for the H31, so I'm in the same boat but I would like an upscaling DVD player....I think?

If anyone has a good combo for the DVD to H31 please let us know!


I am starting to think the Denon DVD-1910 might be the right choice. We can not talk price, but it does seem to be cheaper then some upscaling DVD players, but a bit higher then others....but for 200-250 bucks it seems to have some of the best reviews.

It's beginning to look as if many X1 owners who didn't upgrade to the 4805 are taking the plunge with the H31.

I am one of them. This is the month I go for it. Can't wait!

Wayne

Fox: I'm mad at myself for ordering the Sammy DVD....it was ummm...in impulse order. I hear you on the Denon, I'm ordering the Denon 3805 7.1 reciever when I get some tax return money. Maybe I'll order both at the same time DVD player and receiver. (LiteUp) posted this to me in the DVD forum "For $300.00.....Panasonic DVD-S97......hands down." So I'm gonna look into the Panny too.

This is great that alot of people are going with the H31 around the same time, it'll be cool to get everyones feedback and reviews.

jedi35,

So you haven't even hooked up a dvd player yet? Just SD cable? Well, I think you will be in for a surprise when you throw an anamorphic quality dvd at the H31 :D

foxdvd,

If you don't already know, this site is fairly well respected by avs forum members here for good dvd reviews:

DVD players (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_3/dvd-benchmark-introduction-9-2000.html)

While I have a H30 (no dvi), I have been happy with the top progressive player of past that was recommended by secrets of HT, the Panny XP30.

If you don't want to mess with dvi, then this site might help you chose a good performing progressive player. Also don't forget the dvd player section of this AVS forum here!

Fleaman

Originally posted by LENNY 2112
Jedi: I think I'll set mine up like you did using the ladder! I like that mind psycology.. :D plus it'll help me learn more about this HT stuff. You made my day, and I can't wait til the H31 arrives.

Fox: I was actually looking for an upscaling dvd player to push some HD content throught the DVI. I bought the Sammy 841 but from the reviews that I have heard I'll probably be sending it back. From all the reviews I can't nail down what would be the best DVD player for the H31, so I'm in the same boat but I would like an upscaling DVD player....I think?

If anyone has a good combo for the DVD to H31 please let us know!

Why would you want to upscale with a native 480p player?

Oh, and I've heard awesome things about the Panny XP30 that fleaman mentioned!

fleaman,
I have moved up the ladder from svideo analog cable to component HD cable. WOW!! It looks stunning. The picture is dark and bright at the same time. Last night while watching a couple of the Matrix movies in HD on cable, I almost had to look away from the screen during bright flashes. I almost got sunspots, it seemed, and that never happened with my 1500 lumens Benq 6100. Go figure. The extra black in the picture gives everything a texture that you can almost feel. I'm noticing the surfaces of things much more dramatically, and small details like tiny objects on the floors and walls of various scenes. I thought that my Benq did the 3D effect very well, but the H31 is killing it. The image is so deep you can almost reach into it. I know that it sounds like I'm overdoing my praise of this pj, but it deserves it.

I want to try a few other component sources first before I move up to dvi(I have a 5 meter dvi-d cable on the way). My JVC 30K dvhs deck needs watching. Then, I have several sources that have component and dvi:

Voom stb(soon to go dead, I'll bet)
Charter HD stb
Charter Moxi stb
Sammy T165 OTA tuner
Sammy HD931 upscaling dvd player(crushes blacks through dvi, I heard)
Zenith 318 upscaling dvd player

So, you all can see, I have a long road ahead of me in my move from component to dvi. How exciting.

Lenny,
As listed above, you can see that I have 2 upscaling dvd players. But I don't expect much from the Sammy unit. That one will probably be moved to my second theater room(with a Pioneer 53" hd rptv). I was stunned by the richness of the upconverted component video signal that the Zenith 318 produced on my Benq. They were the best dvd images I'd seen in my home, but I know that's about to change bigtime. I don't have to work tomorrow, so guess what I'll be doing?

Geno,
I'll take a crack at this. Whatever the theory is behind upscaling dvd players, I do know that when I step through from 480i to 480p, 720p, and 1080i, the picture takes on different qualities. The image seems more tightly packed in, more solid, and is richer. Colors are more vibrant and filmlike. I only know what my eyes tell me. I would expect that this should only be enhanced by the dvi connection. Even if the theory doesn't make sense to you, it would still be of great benefit to send the signal to the pj at 480p through dvi....all digital. You'll only get that on an upconverting dvd player, or through a HTPC.

Jedi: Have fun on your day off!!! Do you happen to have an xbox around? :D What size and make screen are you using?

Originally posted by jedi35
Geno,
I'll take a crack at this. Whatevr the theory is behind upscaling dvd players, I do know that when I step through from 480 to 480p, 720p, and 1080i, the picture takes on different qualities. The image seems more tightly packed in, more solid, and is richer. Colors are more vibrant and filmlike. I only know what my eyes tell me. I would expect that this should only be enhanced by the dvi connection. Even if the theory doesn't make sense to you, it would still be of great benefit to send the signal to the pj at 480p through dvi....all digital. You'll only get that on an upconverting dvd player, or through a HTPC.

I appreciate the response. I own a 4805 actually with a pixel-mapped HTPC via DVI. I get really incredible image quality.

There are many members in the 4805 forum that swear they get incredible pq with certain upscaling DVD players (ie the Denons) - and, of course, I do not doubt that you or others experience this.

I tried it with the Samsung HD841 before I built my HTPC - it was a disaster.

I guess I just have a hard time with the theory - so I guess perhaps I should see a good upscaler myself, like a Denon.

Glad to hear you all are having great experiences with the H31:D

jedi35,

Wow, lots of experiments to conduct.

Well, I'd be interested in the pic quality differences between say a good progressive component dvd player (like my Panny XP30) and a dvi dvd player's different offerings (upsampled or not) on the H31. Even though my XP30 is nice and even though I spent like $60 on a mod kit to convert it to a region free switchable PAL player (got a few UK dvd's), if a dvi dvd player is really a pic quality upgrade, I might even consider it with a future upgrade to the H31 (from my H30).

Fleaman

gosh i wish i didn't have to buy a new mount

i was hoping chrisduncan was going to come back and say, "dude!, you don't even need to worry about it, the hole patterns match up!"

but i regress ;)

now i have to putty :(

I'm looking into a new dvd player for my pj. I have a pioneer 563a or somthing like that. I'm thinking about the Z 318 but the y/c delay I read about on the secrets review worried me. I realy dont know how much a big deal it is as those guys review players costing 2 or 3 times as much as the h31. They may just be complaining about stuff you can only see if you messure it with a meter. I do want to go DVI just because I can I guess.

[H]RedDog,

On a small tv (I have a 27"!), I couldn't really notice much differences in dvd players. But once I got a projector and blew up that DVD image, the differences became much more apparent.

Whether the y/c delay would be noticeable on your larger projected image to you is unknown by me. All I would say is if you only had a small tv, don't worry about it.

But now you have a projector and things start to get more complicated.

What fun:eek:

Fleaman

Yea this isnt my first PJ and I went through this with my first one. I had to get a progressive player. I got the hd931 at first but wasnt happy so I took it back and got the pioneer because is had s-audio. I've been somewhat happy with it but now I feel like I gotta get a better one. I've read the the new players get rid of alot of the digital grain that poorer quality dvds have. Pluss my player doesnt pass blacker than black and the 318 does.

so what are you H31 owners using for ceiling mounts?

RedDog,
I happen to also own the Pioneer 563A dvd player along with my upconverting ones. I wanted it for it's sacd and dvdaudio playback as well. I can tell you that the Zenith player is much better, even through component. Having seen them on the same pj(it was my Benq 6100), I can say this with confidence. I don't know about this y/c delay that some reviewers might have mentioned, but it doesn't bother me. It wasn't something that showed up and bothered me in my picture. Sometimes, issues can disappear when you switch to dvi. I don't know which connection they measured. Bottom line, the Zenith 318 produces a very fine upscaled picture that you can enjoy.

fleaman,
Yes, I do intend to report on my progress as I try different sources and connections. I'm hoping that this will be of help to the board. What fun.

Geno,
Oh, I see now that you already have a pixel-mapped HTPC with dvi. In that case, you already have upscaling capabilities, and don't know if you'd see much benefit in going with a standalone upscaling player. I think you already have the ideal setup.

Lenny,
Yes, this is the day to party!! I got a call early this morning that my Crown electronic crossover that failed a couple of days ago got fixed, so I can now play around with the new and improved sound from my Martin Logan Quest Electrostatic speakers. The power suply on the Crown piece went out and my speakers started producing a very loud buzz that woke me up at 7am!! Funny, this same repair shop has had my Krell monoblock amps for a few months now and they haven't fixed them. Oh boy.

Yes, I do have an XBox. In fact, I have all the game consoles.....PS2, Dreamcast, N64, Gamecube, and even the new Nintendo DS system. I'm just a big kid.

My screen is fairly small compared to a lot of you(that sounded funny). I can only do an 84" diagonal in my current setup. Any wider, and the image would spill onto my tall front speakers, and those can't be moved... for acoustic reasons. The screen is a Dalite InstaTheater Deluxe, matte white satiny finish, 1.0 gain. The screen sits in a casing on the floor, and lifts straight up. It was designed to be portable, so I could effectively bring the home theater experience to anyone's home. Although the screen is a 100" 4:3 diagonal, the size can be adjusted to look like an 84" diagonal widescreen, depending on how high you lift it, and the masking underneath. Therefore, I have the ability to eliminate black bars above and below the screen for many different aspect ratios, even without the help of the H31. But now it is easier. My biggest complaint about the screen is that Dalite had to go with very light flimsy material to make the screen portable, and I do see waves in the image. I'd like to get a more permanent screen made of thicker material, and just mount it on the wall.

Jedi,

I'm far behind in finalizing my HT, all I have to show is an empty room right now. I have the h31, 92" M2500 onyx fixed sreeen, and *cough* 841 *cough* on the way. I'll most likely be sending back the 841. I will work on all the audio as soon as the tax return comes.

My 2 biggest concerns are:
- What is the best DVI out DVD player under $300?
- How is the M2500 going to look with the H31?

I have a HD pack for my xbox and I am curious on how the component looks on the projector!

lenny,

i just got my h31 yesterday and first thing i did was hook it up to my xbox using the hd pack. i'm far from finishing my ht room (don't even have drywall up yet) but the projector looked awesome shining on a plain white wall. only tried a few different games...halo2 being the main one. i still need to test out some of the ones that i know support 720 or even 1080 like dragaon's lair. probably do that this weekend since my wife won't let me keep our living room a mess.

nate

Originally posted by LENNY 2112
Jedi,

- How is the M2500 going to look with the H31?



I have my Projector still on the table in front of me, so my image is not as brite as it could be but I love my M2500.

Wife e-mailed me at work and said the H31 has arrived...I'm so excited! I also picked up Brothers In Arms for xbox, I'm gonna be busy tonight. I will probably start testing with my old sony 5 disk S-video DVD player and the S-video with xbox. Then move up to the component this weekend when I have more time. If I can deal with the 841 and the DVI I'll try it otherwise I'm gonna ship it off by monday and run to CC or BB for another DVD player. Can anyone who recently got the H31 confirm that the HDMI to DVI adapter came in the box?

Originally posted by jedi35
RedDog,
I happen to also own the Pioneer 563A dvd player along with my upconverting ones. I wanted it for it's sacd and dvdaudio playback as well. I can tell you that the Zenith player is much better, even through component. Having seen them on the same pj(it was my Benq 6100), I can say this with confidence. I don't know about this y/c delay that some reviewers might have mentioned, but it doesn't bother me. It wasn't something that showed up and bothered me in my picture. Sometimes, issues can disappear when you switch to dvi. I don't know which connection they measured. Bottom line, the Zenith 318 produces a very fine upscaled picture that you can enjoy.


I just saw that the 563a has even more y/c delay than the 318. So I guess I shouldnt be too worried about that. I read what yc delay does but I dont think I've seen anything terrible with picture because of it. I guess I dont know how to look for it. And in that case I'm not going to go out of my way to try to learn how to see it. The other thing they made a big deal about was pixel cropping. The idea of it bugs me but in reality I wont even think about it when watching movies. I guess I can click the "checkout" button now.

I think you're going to need to pick up one of these adapters when you're at the store buying a DVD player. Optoma doesn't seem to be supplying them even though they're listed in the manual.

Originally posted by [H]RedDog
And in that case I'm not going to go out of my way to try to learn how to see it.

That is a great idea. I remember people kept talking about ringing with the Philips DVP 642 and certain ffdshow settings on the HTPC. I didn't know what it was and researched and researched and tried my hardest to see it.

Then I saw - all over the place with certain settings. I had to recalibrate everything to get rid of it.

Point being - if you don't see it, then just enjoy it:D

Originally posted by LENNY 2112
Wife e-mailed me at work and said the H31 has arrived...I'm so excited! I also picked up Brothers In Arms for xbox, I'm gonna be busy tonight. I will probably start testing with my old sony 5 disk S-video DVD player and the S-video with xbox. Then move up to the component this weekend when I have more time. If I can deal with the 841 and the DVI I'll try it otherwise I'm gonna ship it off by monday and run to CC or BB for another DVD player. Can anyone who recently got the H31 confirm that the HDMI to DVI adapter came in the box?

They're taking the HDMI/DVI adaptor off the accessories list. I got a Monster one at BB for $27.

Projector Central now has a review up on the H-31.

Originally posted by therealgeno
That is a great idea. I remember people kept talking about ringing with the Philips DVP 642 and certain ffdshow settings on the HTPC. I didn't know what it was and researched and researched and tried my hardest to see it.

Then I saw - all over the place with certain settings. I had to recalibrate everything to get rid of it.

Point being - if you don't see it, then just enjoy it:D

Yea I read the dvd review on yahoo movies. The guy is always talking about halos. I wasnt sure what he ment untill he posted a picture of them in the review of hidalgo. And to see them the picture was of a super zoomed in shot of some guys standing off in the distance. Even at 100 inches theres no way I would notice the faint "halo" while watching the movie. Unless I went out of my way to look for it to see it. But for some reason halos are the end all biggest flaw in dvds to this guy.

Originally posted by dannypanny
Projector Central now has a review up on the H-31.

Good review, echoing just about everything we're all seeing. Colors matching the Pany LCD is interesting. What did I call them "Juicy citrus like" lol

Thx for the news tip.

Coming from the Benq 6100, which has light spill like crazy, I really love the fact that when the image goes dark on the H31 the whole room goes dark as well. No spotlights on the sidewalls. I really love how night scenes look on this pj. If I turned my console humidifier and computer off during movies, the room would be really silent in quiet passages.

foxdvd,
My H31 is also on a low stand in front of me. How is it that you are not getting the optimal brightness output? If my image were any brighter during effects flashes or daytime scenes, I'd worry about going blind.

Well, today, my 5 meter dvd-d cable arrived. However, it might be a few days before my experiments progress to using it. I want to go step by step, so I'll know what I have. The cable seems to be of good quality, and I only paid about 18 bucks for it. Cool price, huh? I ordered it on Monday, with standard shipping, and the UPS guy just about banged my door down just now delivering it. I guess he knew I needed to have it. Things have been shipped pretty quickly for me lately, seeing that I only placed my order for the H31 last Friday, and it was waiting for me even before I was up and around on Monday.

Originally posted by guitarman
Good review, echoing just about everything we're all seeing. Colors matching the Pany LCD is interesting. What did I call them "Juicy citrus like" lol

Thx for the news tip.

300 - 350 lumens though, man i hope that is enough... :(

Originally posted by billymac
300 - 350 lumens though, man i hope that is enough... :(


If the h31 is only putting out 300-350 then a true 850 would turn the side of my house into a rear projection tv for the people next door. I've always been iffy on the numbers they come up with. I think the meter they use is stuck on 300-350 sence thats what they seem to rate just about every pj Ive seen review there.

Originally posted by [H]RedDog
I've always been iffy on the numbers they come up with. I think the meter they use is stuck on 300-350 sence thats what they seem to rate just about every pj Ive seen review there.

I hear that!! Where do they get those numbers from???

PJC central is worthless for lumen measurements. They have the opportunity to provide real calibrated contrast and brightness in their database - but they will not do it because their linked dealers want to sell based on inflated marketing numbers. So the more their reviews make every projector seem about the same on brightness/contrast - the better for their customers (which is really their advertisers - the ones who pay - you the reader do not pay!)

But guitarman was getting under 400 lumens - which is about right for a 850 lumen spec. Use economy lamp mode, and color temp 1 for D65 rather than brite lamp mode and color temp 3 for 11500K . Leave off white peaking and use a proper gamma.

Use a bright white 92" diag screen and you will be fine.

That's good to know Kras,

I must say I'm a little concerned about what Projector Central said concerning the throw ratio.

I have a low ceiling where the pj will go and the highest I can mount it is 6'4" where my X1 sits now. My screen is fine and doesn't have to sit too low but I'm wondering if the offset on the H31 will be so much greater than my X1 that I'll be forced to use the digital lens shift resulting in overscan or I'll have to keystone.

Any idea what the offset in inches would be for my set up at 12.5' from a 92" diagonal screen anyone?

Wayne

Originally posted by jedi35


foxdvd,
My H31 is also on a low stand in front of me. How is it that you are not getting the optimal brightness output? If my image were any brighter during effects flashes or daytime scenes, I'd worry about going blind.




To get the full gain of the M2500 you need to have it ceiling moutned. When projected from a table, you still get a high gain screen, but not as much. In fact, I think it is brite enough now, and do not plan on mounting it up until I have about 1000 hours on it, or it would be to brite without a filter.

mystery

I don't know why they chose to review against the AE700 - it is well regarded for it's flexible setup and it is a 720P LCD. If they wanted a real comparison they would have reviewed against the SP4805. Rather they reviewed it against something out of it's class. Of course they have to say it is better than H30 in the review - otherwise who would buy it?

The X1 widescreen offset was 33%, the SP4805 offset is 27% height - not sure how to translate lens angle given for Optoma into % screen height.

THere are different camps in projector design - one says compromise the optics with shelf mount and optical lens shift. The other designs for ceiling mount or coffee table use - that requires an offset for your average wall! I have noticed PJC has a preference for shelf mount projectors - but they should not go on about how that is better - it is not - just a different compromise.

I thought guitarman said earlier in the thread that it's offset was less than SP4805. Nice for basement HT's - not so nice for living room HT's.

Re lumens, I lost the copy but in a face off of many top projectors they all came in at the 300 and some lower. Actually 350 or 400 is pretty high. If I remember right the NEC HT1000 was around 285 and the high one was the IF7200 at 510 something.

You won't have a problem with brightness with the H31. Just wait till you see one in action.

Anyone having problems using the DVI input on the H31? I'm unable to get mine to work with my PC using a Nvidia 6800 or a Nvidia 4200 both on different systems (I've tried the current official 66.93 drivers and the beta 71.84 drivers).

Called up Optoma's tech support and they blamed the Nvidia card...

I've tried the analog->DVI dongle and it works fine and I've power cycled both the projector and PC; with the PC only having the DVI connected and it still doesn't work.

I've been searching the forums here since yesterday and just doing general searchs on the net and have found nothing.

Only thing I can think of is maybe its the cable I'm using; which is from my LCD panel (DVI-I cable). The manual doesn't actually specify what type of cable it needs but the remote says DVI-D; also PJC lists DVI-I (Optoma's tech support said the DVI-I cable should work). So I'm at a loss...

Thanks Kras,

I guess I'll just purchase it and deal with the offset if there are any negative issues. With the short throw lens I can always move the H31 a little closer to the screen which should decrease the offset a little.

Guitarman used to slightly tilt the H30 up a little and found the image to be still no different even after a few clicks of keystoning. Maybe if those of us with shorter ceilings have to do the same with the H31, our experience will be similar.

I saw the Toshiba MT200 this week and it's quite impressive with the DC2 chip, 6 segment, 4x color wheel. Cost a fair bit more than the H31. Very sharp, bright, clear and colorful. Quiet, long throw lens and small footprint.

Wayne

Alright, I quickly drove home and like a kid at Christmas I unboxed the new projector. I unplugged the xbox and grabbed the S-video and some DVD's and games. Unfortunately I have no audio durning the setup but I think it helped me concentrate on the video part of things. I set up the H31 about 14' away on a tripod like a video camera and it worked nicely (for now). I turned it on and (poof) the Optoma screen came up, I then adjusted and focused the size to match the 80" wide screen on my off-white wall. With the xbox in DVD mode I popped in Monsters inc, and hit the play button. From then on I was in awe over the picture quality, AMAZING I couldn't believe it! The colors where brilliant, and the contrast was amazing. With the fear gone that the projector would need alot of attention going through the settings I called in my wife and little girl. They were amazed at what they saw! We have gone to some hi-end stores and seen some real hi-end projectors displayed (including the Sony HS51) and my wife even agreed that the H31 was very comparable with colors and contrast. I personally could not tell much difference so I am very glad I saved some big bucks on buying this pj. I sent the wife and kid out of the room and began to play, I put in one of my favorite movies Black Hawk Down and selected the scene where the choppers fly into the city. With the Black Hawks flying over the ocean in the bright clear sky then into the black billowing smoke from the fires (which looked very 3D) All the action scenes were amazing and it is amazing what type of detail you can see at 92"s. Next Movies were Nemo and LOTR which were both awesome, awesome, awesome. Remember this is out of the xbox through S-video on a off white wall. I can't complain one bit about the projector.

Next I played a few games: GR2, Halo2 (which was beautiful), and the Splinter Cell Chaos Theory Demo which I tested the blacks on....very good black levels and shadows.

-SDE was not noticable where both seating locations are going to be 10.5' and 14.5' I start noticing it around the 9' mark.
-I saw very little pixelation on menus, but none during the movies.
-Nothing annoyed me on screen like discoloration, all colors seemed dead on.
-No RBE as of yet...
-Brightness was almost perfect at the OTB settings, I actually turned it down a tad.
-Worst thing is I can't watch any of my tv's in the house anymore, they just don't look as nice.

Now I need to get my butt in gear and start planning the rest of the Theater

thanks guitarman and kras. once again you put my neurotic second-guessing mind at east :D

i called premeir mounts and found out i can buy a universal lower assembly that works with the original x1 mount (they oem'd it for them) so i'm pretty stoked about that. i won't have to change out the plate and top portion of the lock. wuhuuuu!! and probably only going to run me about $50 or so.

billymac,

I was going to recommend you get the PremierMount updated - but when I called for a new plate for a customer - it was damn near retail ($150) of the entire mount ($200). Customer said screw that - and machined his own plate at a shop. I was sure they must be wrong - but lost the sale. Let us know what replacement price you get!

I doubt it is $50

Kras

I called Premeir and talked to Darren in CS. He even game me a p/n although it's written down at work. I'll post it tomorrow. List was $65 and there's a Pro AV dealer here in town who can save me a few bucks. So I'm guessing around $50 before freight. From what I can tell the lower assembly part where it connects to the upper assembly part (the round "thingy-ma-ja-jig" with tabs on it that you push up on and turn)...well those are pretty much all the same from what I've been seeing online. The one I want has that round piece that is common and then has the spidey-like swivel arms that make it universal. I compared the Premeire Uni they list for the H31 and it looks exactly like the one I have for the AE700 and the round part looks exactly like the one I have for the X1. It was the earlier X1 mount. Not the new they have out. He said it even comes with the screws. I paid about $165'ish for the uni for the AE700 and that came with the 13" extension too. They're not the prettiest things, but they're rock solid and I be lovin' it if I can buy this bottom piece and make it all work. They'll all be interchangeable. :) sorry for all the typos, but i'm lazy tonight. *burp* :p

so basically the bottom part of this:

http://www.premiermounts.com/product.asp?PartID=1104

the p/n Darren gave me from PremierMounts is GB-UMS "Lower Assembly for Universal Ceiling Mount", direct pricing was $66.99 (list?)

still waiting for my dealer to call me back with pricing

So the universal spider version is cheaper than the custom plate. Makes sense - economies of scale. I will remember that next time I do an upgrade.

Seems to me you lose the registered easy on/off capability with the universal spider mounts - but I have not played with it myself. I guess if you attach the spider to the projector then it would work Ugly though! I like having the plate because then it is flat surface for doing portable demos.

yeah, i agree it's not as attractive, it kind of has a matrix meets frakenstein look to it and it's a little higher up on the W.A.F. scale but if you want to quickly and easily rotate different mfg pj's from a single mount it's pretty trick. if they actually made a better looking solid plate lower assembly for the H31, I'd buy that, but alas. just out of curisoity can you buy this at a reseller discount? my guy hasn't called me back yet.

I was hoping to read a much more postive review than this. And their comparison to the AE700 is not well done either, though they seem to say the optoma matches the panny in color saturation/accuracy on 480P stuff once optimized.

I had always assumed, based on reviews here, that the Optoma would have clearly better color, contrast and black levels compared to the AE700 at least on on DVDs with panny edging ahead with HD stuff.

Thoughts?

MAK

LCD's are notorious for oversaturated colors and bad non linear greyscale. The Panny managed to be not bad - and that is good for a LCD.

DLP's are notorious for undersaturated colors - especially business projectors. The SP4805 and H31 are the first of a breed of budget projectors that try to get the colors right (SP4805 weak on green, H31 weak on red)

I suspect the Panny is better out of the box greyscale than the Optoma - but DLP is easier to calibrate than LCD in this regard (what with VB and non linear technology).

LCD is resorting to auto IRIS gimmicks to improve marketed on/off - but it is the ANSI contrast reponsible for 3D viewing - and both the SP4805 and H31 are about 3x better on both the ANSI and ON/OFF measures when calibrated.

Originally posted by MAK
I was hoping to read a much more postive review than this. And their comparison to the AE700 is not well done either, though they seem to say the optoma matches the panny in color saturation/accuracy on 480P stuff once optimized.

I had always assumed, based on reviews here, that the Optoma would have clearly better color, contrast and black levels compared to the AE700 at least on on DVDs with panny edging ahead with HD stuff.

Thoughts?

:) What's not positive? I thought it was a sterling review.

HT-mag got 715.1CR for the AE700, I got 2015.1 with the H31. That's both tuned down to 65k, huge difference there. Plus like Kras just said, DLPs way of doing contrast is better. Like with the IRIS technique it closes down in a scene that's dark. Good for making better black but is also closes down any white area's in that scene. A dlp can make the best of both black and white at the same time.

Tom,

While we have your attention...:D

What do you make of Projector Central badmouthing the H31's offset? Could it really be 47" from lens to the screen center from 13'? This seems exaggerated doesn't it? I suppose it depends on the size of the screen in question?

Wayne

Ridiculous, that's a yard plus a foot and a half. It's more like a 12" offset in my setup. 14' back 92"wide 106diag screen. Pj lens is down 6" from the ceiling, screen surface is down near 20" from the ceiling.

I've never heard of a 50" offset on any projector. :)

Tom and Mystery,

The offset PJ Central is mentioning is to the center of the screen (screen center), not the offset to the top (or bottom) of the screen, which I guess you might be thinking of.

Fleaman

Ridiculous Projector Central, lol

How quiet are these H31? If I was watching a DVD with the volume not so loud, and the H31 was 3 feet in front of me on a coffee table, how bad would it be?

Hi Fleaman,

Yes, I understood where ProjCent is coming from. I mentioned in my post that it was to the screen center that they were measuring.

However, I'm not sure that their measurements are accurate. I believe Tom, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, that you have a 52" x 92" screen resulting in a 106" diagonal image.

Therefore, if your drop from ceiling to screen is 20", and half of the screen height is 26", then ceiling to the center of the screen is 46". But ProjCent is saying that they measured 47" from the LENS to the screen mid-point. Tom's measurement from lens to screen center should be around 40" if I'm not mistaken. That's a huge difference! 7" in height. That could make or break it for a lot of people possibly including myself considering this H31.

I have my X1 presently as high as I can get it on a very low ceiling at the back of my recroom (venting duct) and the lens is 6'4" off the floor and 12.5' from the 92" diagonal screen. The other end of the room is higher because the duct work is only at the back of the room so I can mount the screen as high as 7 1/2 '

I've just been concerned that at the screen end of the room, the image might have to be too low to accommodate the offset. However, I'm going to buy the H31 regardless of what ProjCent says and I'm trusting Tom's figures to be normal and sane whereas the ones from the review seem to be outlandish.

Wayne

retroeric,
My H31 is right out in front of my couch right now, and in quiet passages my console humidifier on the other side of the room is way louder than the H31. This little pj is very quiet, I don't think you'll have a problem.

Now, about this brightness issue, I'll admit that I too was a bit concerned before getting the H31. I didn't think that an 850 lumens pj would be bright enough for me, since my first pj was 2000 lumens, and my second was 1500. I was so surprised!! I find myself squinting sometimes with the H31. I turned the brightness down from the factory settings quite a bit, and I can still turn on all the lights in the room, and get a watchable picture.

I'm going pretty slow with my experiments, leading up to the dvi connection. Last night, I was blown away when I hooked up my Sammy T165 OTA tuner through component. Simply stunning. I watched for awhile, then moved on to watching Ice Age in HD on my JVC 30K DVHS deck(component). I just couldn't believe the picture quality. It really seems like the extra black from the DarkChip2 is making the image more 3D like, and the blacks are very dark!! I don't remember the $13K Marantz HD2+ pj I've seen being much better than this H31. I'm serious.

Once I check out component on Voom and my dvd players, I can start testing dvi.

Originally posted by fleaman
Tom and Mystery,

The offset PJ Central is mentioning is to the center of the screen (screen center), not the offset to the top (or bottom) of the screen, which I guess you might be thinking of.

Fleaman

For people who has low ceiling, and is worry about H31 offset angle, being mentioned in Projector Central, I recall I saw a AVS member who owns a H30, and used a good ceiling mount to adjust for the offset angle. I don't recall the H30 user name, but I do recall the ceiling mount, it's called Panavise, I just went to their website, and found the height-adjustable ceiling mount (http://www.panavise.com/nf/speaker/speaker_8lb.html) It has two knuckles to twist and turn and shorten the ceiling mount height, one can adjust the knuckles to the position you want. To me, it's like a mechanical lens shift that should help with your setup.

And the offset distance (or height) is really related to the image. The angle is fixed, the bigger the image, the larger the offset distance (from the center of the lens to the lower bottom of the projected image).

If the above-mentioned ceiling mount cannot totally meet your need, you can use it to the closest to the ceiling, and try a little tilting and keystone. I set up H56 in a bookself in my house with keystone up to 7, all the guests who came to my house were all amazed by the image, no one knows it's been keystoned. Of course, if you can stay away from keystone, still try to stay away. ;)

Hope this helps.

I might only be able to get a 10 foot throw to my screen. That will give me a 16:9 image size of 60" by 34". How is the quality of this H31 from such a short distance? Also, would this be a waste of a great projector?

retroeric: I have a Infocus 4805 but it is quite similar to the Optoma. I can assure you, as far as picture quality, the smaller the image size the better. As you gain image size, you slowly loose image quality. But, at 76-92 inches diagonal, the picture on these projectors can still look very good.

Thanks TzungILin,

I think it'll work out. I can't wait to see what this puppy (H31) can do.

Originally posted by retroeric
I might only be able to get a 10 foot throw to my screen. That will give me a 16:9 image size of 60" by 34". How is the quality of this H31 from such a short distance? Also, would this be a waste of a great projector?

I have a homemade 60" wide screen (not diagonal). Being my room is small, I'm sitting about 9.5ft away, so @ 55" to 60" wide (depending on aspect ratio and my zoom), I can't really get a bigger screen w/o running into the less than 2x screen width rule.

I don't think it's a waste, it all comes down to how far you sit from the screen. The smaller screen sizes the image will be brighter and pop'er.

Oh, I forgot to mention, I don't have a H31....I have an H30.

Fleaman

retroeric

Do you think 60" plasma buyers regret the $15K spent because their screen was "small"? Think of it as the largest plasma around rather than a movie screen and that should make you feel better - since you spent 10% what that plasma buyer did.

I've had a couple days now to watch my new H31 so I thought I'd make a few comments on how it compares to the X1. First off, the black levels are SO much deeper on the H31. That, to me, is probably the biggest difference between the two projectors. I also think the colors are much nicer on the H31. I've been watching a lot of HD with it (Voom) and I noticed right off that the colors on the Voom menu screen were much richer. As for brightness, it's definitely brighter than the X1. I'm using mine on a 126" diagonal 16:9 screen, and even with that size screen it's more than bright enough. I do have dark purple walls, a black ceiling, curtains around the screen with a valance above, and dark carpet which certainly helps matters. The H31 is as bright as I was hoping.

Comparing DVD material I notice more fine detail than I did on the X1. I calibrated with THX Optimode, and it definitely is an improvement from the original settings. I'm actually surprised how much more fine detail I'm seeing as compared to the X1. I like how the component inputs allow me to switch between interlaced and progressive, since I couldn't do that with the X1. When comparing the 480i and 480p (I have a cheap Panasonic 5-disc progressive scan player) I really haven't noticed a difference. Both look pretty much the same after calibration, which is to say impressive. Also, the H31 remembers separate settings for both interlaced and progressive which is nice.

For HDTV, it's also an improvement. I see less jagged lines than before with better color detail. One thing that stood out to me is that I could run my Voom box with the X1 in either 1080i or 720p and not tell a great difference; sometimes I thought one looked better, other times the other setting, but they were pretty close. With the H31, I have to choose 720p. With 1080i it actually looks out of focus. On Voom's installer menu screen you choose which resolution makes the onscreen text look best, and 720p is clearly better. I noticed the same thing with channel menus and HD material itself. 720p just looks cleaner and sharper.

One thing I'm not too sure about is what to set the gamma at. The default setting is 1, but I'm tempted at times to set it at 2. That makes dark movies more watchable, but it seems like black levels suffer a little bit too.

I'm using component with DVD and HD. I bought a 20' DVI cable but haven't had a chance to crawl up in the attic yet to install it (been too busy watching movies, so I hooked up my component cable through the DVI input using the VGA to component adaptor and the DVI to VGA adaptor. I don't know if using 2 adaptors will affect the PQ. Guess I'll find out when I get the DVI cable hooked up so I can compare them.

Anyway, in my novice opinion, the H31 is easily capable of being used on a very large screen from what I've seen. It's definitely an improvement over the X1 in that regard. I had about 920 hours on my X1. I don't know that it had dimmed all that much since I've had (now it'll be used a bedroom projector where I'll probably build a 70" or 80" 16:9 screen with a black border) but that's such a gradual process that maybe I didn't notice it.

I just used my X1 mount for the H31 and drilled new holes in the mounting plate. It worked fine. I didn't even use a drill press, just my cordless drill with a very small drill bit. My mount is an aftermarket one bought off Ebay for about $70. The H31 uses M3 bolts which are smaller than the ones on the X1.

One last thing, I've noticed about the same amount of screen door effect as on the X1. It's not a problem for me at all. Once I'm watching a movie or sporting event or whatever, I absolutely don't notice it at all. I'm more into watching the movie than the projector itself. I sit about 15' to 16' from the screen which is a bit over 9' wide, and it's not a problem. YMMV. I'm usually one of those people who tend to sit fairly close in a movie theater, too, though. I haven't had anyone complain about screen door though. Everyone who's seen it has been really impressed. I actually have to really try to see screen door from where I'm sitting, and usually I have a hard time making it out. I'm sure other people are bothered more by it, though. I've never been bothered by rainbows on the X1, and haven't noticed any on the H31 either.

I almost want to dig up my x1 upgrade thread. When I started it I was thinking about the 4805 and people who had seen both said the 4805 was better but not so much better that it was worth upgrading to. So far all us old x1 guys think it was worth upgrading to the h31. I still havent tried HD on it yet I'm waiting to borrow a dvi cable so I can see it at its best.

Excellent review Chris!

Your screen is MASSIVE!!

I may need to put on my Serengeti's to watch my 92" diagonal screen when I get the H31 in about two weeks.

You will still keep the little fella in your bedroom but I've got to let mine go to help pay for the new guy. I love this X1 but the time has come to move on.

Wayne

I don't want to start a poll, but do want to get a sense of which screens work the best with the H31. I know Tom used the highpower dalite for his review and some others (including "mystery" plan to use the same).

On the other hand everyone is saying this is a very bright pj. Considering I have a totally dark HT, do I really need the highpower?

What are the various screen choices you guys have made, or plan to make, and why?

MaK

I have on order a Draper M2500 92" screen. I think this size is perfect for my room setup. I have heard great reviews on the M2500 for really bringing out the colors etc. I turned down the brightness for the H31 for being on the wall, I'm sure I'll have to turn it down again.

Someone asked for an offset using a 74.5widescreen pj back at 14'. the offset is 21", center lens to start of screen video.

great reveiw chris. thanks for that. that screen is huge! i wish i had a few more feet to play with! i'll probably be settling for a 92" but will probably just use my 96" 4:3 for a bit until i can sell the wife on a new screen. i'm also concerned about drop from ceiling and stuff so want to see what the offset is like. my pulls down in front of a custom built in home theater cabinet. i dont' want to have the screen dangling down 2 feet from the ceiling in front of the sony wega! :) i guess if i bought another da-lite i soculd specify additional black drop at the top. i watched survivor on my x1 last night and have to say it still puts out a great picture.

Hopefully I'll be ordering an H31 today or within the next few days..

What cable do I need to connect it to my HTPC?
Will it come with the appropriate cable?
The PJ will be within 10 feet of the PC.

I have an Nvidia FX 5900 vid card.

Thanks!

ChrisDuncan

Try putting an ND2 filter on it - any cheap one from the camera store. If you think it is too dim with the filter, then your screen is too large or needs to be high gain. Projectors are twice as bright when they are new.

Anyone who has ever bought a new lamp is always amazed how much brighter it is because the drop-off is so gradual they did not notice how dim their old lamp is. You would have the same reaction to a new X1 lamp even a 1000 hr one has noticeable dropoff - especially if filters were not on a cleaning schedule.

I need some help from you all....

This is my first projector (well, I have two) that I am attempting to ceiling mount for the first time.

I went with a recommendation from someone on this forum, is PerfrectMounts.com. So after asking if their Everest mount (universal) would be the choice for my Optoma H31, I ordered it and it arrived this week.

In the package, contains prefab aluminum parts, lots of bolts and washers, ceiling plate and projector plate. The projector plate has holes to attach the spider arms (segments) and at the end of each arm, you can attach some kind of aluminum feet which you then insert a bolt into (adjustable) that I assume attaches directly to the H31 mounting threaded holes.

I'm not familar too much with M3-M4-M5 threaded holes but I assume the # is the size of the thread, eg. 3mm, 4mm, 5mm. From the bottom of the H31, I can see there are three small threaded holes and one bigger one centered in the middle of the projector, I assume M3 and M5 sizes? Is this correct?

With the Everest mount, they included a pack of black colored bolts and washers with three (3) sets of four bolts of various sizes. All of them are too large to fit into the 3mm holes (estimated size) but the largest set of bolts will start to thread into the center "M5" (???) hole but it won't go deep enough to tighten the mount arm to the bottom of the projector. Plus, there would only be one arm to use.

So what I'm thinking is that this mount package I received is missing the M3 sized bolts that I am needing.........?

Yeah, I'm sure it'll dim quite a bit over time. But since I've been using a 16:9 screen and the X1 is 4:3, I wonder if the H31's 16:9 output gives it an advantage right off over the X1. All the light is focused on the screen, as opposed to the X1 where I was wasting a significant percentage of it. And with no lightspill that further darkens the room and helps with contrast.

And doesn't better contrast make things appear brighter than they are? I wonder if that could be part of it too. I don't doubt that the lamp will dim a lot but I'm thinking that these advantages (on a 16:9 screen) mean it's brighter than the X1 anyway.

I don't doubt that my screen is too large by ISF standards, and I won't recommend others use that large of a screen if they want the best image possible. I find it enjoyable, though, and I did with my X1 too. I cleaned my filters every 200 hours or less, but never did clean the color wheel because it always looked clear when I inspected it.

My screen gain is just 1.0 to 1.3 (that's what I was told when I bought the screen material).

i watched survivor on my x1 last night and have to say it still puts out a great picture.

I hooked up my X1 in my bedroom and watched some DVDs projecting on the wall at about 75" diagonal. It still puts out a very nice picture, especially at this more realistic size. I was actually using the X1's speaker for the first time. Can't wait to get a screen up and some speakers so I can lie in bed and watch TV on what looks like a giant plasma screen.

Originally posted by ChrisDuncan
And doesn't better contrast make things appear brighter than they are? I wonder if that could be part of it too. I don't doubt that the lamp will dim a lot but I'm thinking that these advantages (on a 16:9 screen) mean it's brighter than the X1 anyway.


Kras over in the 4805 thread just talked about that same thing. Better contrast does psychovisually create a brighter image in that blacker blacks make white look brighter - great optical allusion that makes your image seem brighter:D :cool:

xed,

I believe that it was I who suggested PerfectMounts. I've been thinking about ordering the universal Everest mount as well and I'm glad that you did because your explanation of what it comes with is interesting. It sounds as if they send out too many parts to cover all of the bases since it's supposed to be able to work with any projector.

If none of the screws seem to fit then I would send them an email or give them a call about this. Are there printed instructions and are they good ones or are they ridiculous as so many can be?

Also, I'm wondering how hard it might be to get these M3 screws locally at Home Depot for instance.

How do the parts feel? Are they heavy and sturdy to the touch? Do they seem like they could easily hold the H31? How does the rest of the mount assemble together? Is it fairly easy or frustrating? I'm just wondering if it's better to just save the money and go with their dedicated H30/31 mount which costs a lot less depending on which quality you go with.

Wayne

You should be able to get them at any hardware store I would think. You might want to pick up a tiny allen wrench too that fits the M3 bolts. I picked up mine from work (tire factory) but I know Lowe's or Home Depot should carry them too.

Just wanted to add that I got my mount for my 4805 at Perfectmounts.com. It came with all necessary hardware, easy-to-follow printed instructions with diagrams, and it seemed to me like a good/sturdy, well-made mount. No complaints. Easy to hook up, install, and has worked like a charm!

Only regret is not having it painted green to match my ceiling - it is grey (or silver - can't remember - but it matches the casing of the 4805.

Thanks Geno!

Did you get the Everest universal mount or one specific to your projector?

Wayne

mystery,
I got the one specifically for my 4805 (actually, it fits the X1, 4800, and 4805 - but the case is the same for all) - NOT the Everest universal mount.

Because my ceilings are 8', I wanted one as close to the ceiling as possible, and the one specific for my 4805 fit the bill perfectly.

A buddy of mine got the same mount with an extension - and perfectmounts.com provided him all the necessary bolts, spacers, printed instructions and diagrams as well.

Maybe the Everest is different in that regard - maybe you have to buy your own bolts specific to your pj?

Thanks Geno.

Looks like they've thought of everything. I think that if I were to order the (Mount) Everest :D I would specifically request that they ensure to include the exact parts necessary to fit the projector in question.

Glad to hear that you and your friend have had good experiences with this company.

Wayne

Someone asked what cables are needed to connect a pc to the H31, and mentioned that they have an NVidia card. I don't know what connections are on whatever model card you have, but for quality you will want to use component, vga, or dvi for the best image. The H31 comes with cables for composite, svideo, power, and a serial cord. No vga, component, or dvi. A vga to dvi adapter is included, but not the dvi to hdmi version. The pj can handle analog and digital signals fed through dvi, as it is a dvi-i type.

ChrisDuncan,
You definitely win the cake for having in your house just about the largest HT screen I've heard of. That must be awesome, and it's great to know that the H31 will do a decent job on something so big. I get a kick out of the 132" screen I've seen used at a local Ultimate Electronics. I'm a little concerned about your 20' dvi cable. It is commonly reported by experts that dvi cables should not exceed 5 meters(about 16') in length. If longer than that, performance could be unreliable. Are you considering a signal booster? You mentioned comparing the dvi signal to component (that needed a couple of adapters). I think you may not get a fair comparison since your dvi cable is so long. There is also the risk that the proper "handshaking" process may not happen for HDCP.

MAK,
I also have a setup that provides good darkness at whatever time I want to view my H31. I do not feel the need for a highpower screen, as my matte white 1.0 gain screen can almost blind me at times with this wonderful little pj. I turned the brightness down quite a bit from the factory settings. I am running an 84" diagonal screen, and the pj is mounted on a stand about 11' back or so, in front of my couch.

Guys, sorry that I haven't posted much in the way of updates on my new H31 lately, but I've been quite busy watching. I am still blown away by just about everything I see from this pj. I think the black levels are deepening even more, and I haven't done anymore adjusting. I'm just watching so that I learn what the pj looks like for now. Night scenes are really dark, and the lack of light spill is such a joy. I really love the aspect buttons on the remote, and Tom, you are right... the 1.66 mode is great for displaying 4:3 stuff. Now it's not such a pain to switch from a HD channel to an SD one on Charter's Moxi box. I even found a way to view Moxi's SD channels in 16:9 without distortion, and the cropping is very subtle. Cool.

Tom, have you found a way to address the slight orange cast that the reds have on the H31? I'd love to be able to get rid of this. All other colors are absolutely gorgeous!!

Originally posted by jedi35
ChrisDuncan,
I'm a little concerned about your 20' dvi cable. It is commonly reported by experts that dvi cables should not exceed 5 meters(about 16') in length. If longer than that, performance could be unreliable. Are you considering a signal booster? You mentioned comparing the dvi signal to component (that needed a couple of adapters). I think you may not get a fair comparison since your dvi cable is so long. There is also the risk that the proper "handshaking" process may not happen for HDCP.


I've heard a lot of people say this as well, but many of us have experienced no signal degradation over a long DVI cable. In the 4805 forum, the limit mentioned there several times has been 30'. There was one member that tried 50', but did say he did not get good results.

Personally, I have a 30' DVI cable connected to my HTPC and no signal booster. With the 30' DVI cable to M1 adapter from my pixel-mapped HTPC, the pq is stunning. No signal degradation at all. And no sparklies either (but probably because we are not running high bit rates).

Before I received my 30' DVI cable, I did get it set up with a 5' DVI cable to M1 (I had trouble running dual monitors, so I had to do all of powerstrip and other stuff on the pj itself with the 5' DVI). I have noticed NO difference in pq btw 5' and 30'.

Just a FYI. Because if it were me, my OCD would kick in and I would be looking for things all the time to see if my long DVI cable suffered any pq loss:D

And I do realize, jedi35, that many people say you can't go longer than 5m - but many of us have indeed gone a bit longer.

I'm glad to hear you love your H31. Great pq for the $$ isn't it? Now when are they going to do an H31 vs 4805 shootout??

Originally posted by Bobbeh
Anyone having problems using the DVI input on the H31? I'm unable to get mine to work with my PC using a Nvidia 6800 or a Nvidia 4200 both on different systems (I've tried the current official 66.93 drivers and the beta 71.84 drivers).

Called up Optoma's tech support and they blamed the Nvidia card...

I've tried the analog->DVI dongle and it works fine and I've power cycled both the projector and PC; with the PC only having the DVI connected and it still doesn't work.

I've been searching the forums here since yesterday and just doing general searchs on the net and have found nothing.

Only thing I can think of is maybe its the cable I'm using; which is from my LCD panel (DVI-I cable). The manual doesn't actually specify what type of cable it needs but the remote says DVI-D; also PJC lists DVI-I (Optoma's tech support said the DVI-I cable should work). So I'm at a loss...

So turns out my H31 was defective... I drove over to Optoma in Milpitas today and they replaced it; hassle free. They even put a movie on for us in their demo theater room while we waited. I'm now one happy H31 owner with a working DVI port :D

Originally posted by jedi35

Tom, have you found a way to address the slight orange cast that the reds have on the H31? I'd love to be able to get rid of this. All other colors are absolutely gorgeous!!

The h31 just seems to have orange reds. I've tried alot not too much can be done to fix it as far as settings go. I'm a DIY screen guy and am thinking about trying out some different paint to fix this. For the most part I dont realy notice it. just certain things. Mostly on fox dvds that have that red fox back ground with the fbi thing. And thats pretty much worthless anyway. Unless your a big MPAA fan.

RedDog

Here is a trick that worked on the HT1000 which had similar orange reds - the FLD filter. It skews everything a bit red giving you deeper reds.

Crank that up to the highest color temperature you can (#3 I think) and give it a try! Since the higher color temperature will be closer to the 850 lumens spec - while the calibrated temperature is about half that - losing half the lumens to the filter is no real loss.

Yeah, I've always been battling the orange Reds on my H30. I can get them 'Less orange', but never been able to get my reds 'RED'.

I don't know if it's my amateur calibration attempts or what, but it seems that the H30/H31's just seem to be weak on the reds.

Fleaman

You can never improve the saturation/hue of the color wheel beyond what it is. Other than trying the colored filters (which skew all colors - thus the choice of a blue greyscale)

The eye is more sensitive to red/blue errors than green errors.

If my max throw distance is 10'8", what is the max screen size I can expect to get on the H31? The pjcentral calculator says 65" width, but I've heard that calculator can be off a bit. Can someone help?

Originally posted by krasmuzik

The eye is more sensitive to red/blue errors than green errors.

Ah HA!

So, wouldn't a projector manufacture be better off sacrificing green errors for Red improvements?

Or is my logic flawed?

BTW, how does the 4805 Reds fair?

Fleaman

The Optoma PJ's I've tried have the limiting color being red. Kras gave you a great tip, a simple FLD filter will increase the red and compensate by moving up the line with the color temp toggle. Picture will still be more than bright enough for home theater (better HT image actually) blacks will be better still.

When I tested the HT510 it also had a lower red and the FLD filter helped that projector greatly

fleaman

I was trying to be diplomatic off my home turf :D

Infocus green is destarurated more towards yellow, reds/blues are HD perfect. They also error on the GYR side of the chart than CBM for greyscale. This has the advantage of being less noticeable error, and producing more light output.

I do the same when I calibrate - if I have a choice of errors I lean to the less noticeable side.

Of course in a direct shootout one can see the difference - the H30 was noticed as having more natural greens. But the H30 was oversaturated on greens while the H31 is correct on greens.

The psychovisual basis for this is the 1976 CIE chart which expands the red/blue area and diminishes the green area as opposed to the 1939 CIE chart. WideScreen Review has started showing both charts and you really can see the difference in measures.

All the lamps used in DLPs have the limiting color as red. So using a desaturated red helps the light output - because the HD red is pretty deep. Infocus increases the red % in the color wheel so it does not need corrected digitally - and it is the correct HD color. The light output loss is compensated for in the less accurate green.

The SP7205 is a deeper red than the SP4805 - it has a stronger lamp so can afford the deeper red. In fact when the lamp is new the red is too deep - but after 10% burn-in it becomes more natural.

Just different approaches to projector design - it is all about the tradeoffs you chose to make! I think the only DLP to get it perfect is the Joe Kane edition Samsung which has barely seen the light of day.

Originally posted by retroeric
If my max throw distance is 10'8", what is the max screen size I can expect to get on the H31? The pjcentral calculator says 65" width, but I've heard that calculator can be off a bit. Can someone help?

Try the Optoma calculator.
optomahometheater.com/content/calculator_index.htm

Answer: 64" - 77" sceen width.

Hey, thanks for all that background info on reds in dlp pjs. It helps a lot to understand what the tradeoffs are, and why. I still think the H31 is super incredlible, and look forward to trying an FLD filter once the pj burns in past 100 hours.

I stopped by a local home theater/hi-fi shop today to check out their big expensive $13K Marantz HD2+ pj, to see how the blacks and everything look to me now that I have the H31. It is fair to say that the Marantz is a better machine, as detailing was very fine, and the blacks were quite deep. Deeper than the H31, but I really don't think that I saw $12K worth of difference, however. If you have the money to burn, go for it. But to get a little better product you have to spend so much. Also, I have to consider the fact that the Marantz was probably been shown on a better screen, and the room walls, carpet, and ceiling were dark as well. This could be a factor, as my walls and ceiling are a light creme color, with rust colored carpet. I can't do anything with that, as I'm renting right now. I did tack up some black material above the screen(black masking underneath) and on the side walls to help a little. The windows have been well covered with dark material to control ambient light.

Originally posted by l08Op
Try the Optoma calculator.
optomahometheater.com/content/calculator_index.htm

Answer: 64" - 77" sceen width.

Does the quality degrade if I go for the max 77" ?

"I still think the H31 is super incredlible"

You bet, everybody would be more than happy with the OTB H31. These (filters) are just tweaks for anyone who want to get even more out of each PJ.

But watch, even some who try the filter may go back to the stock look for the brightness increase, all a matter of taste. I was one to take the filter off for the higher brightess, this was with the NEC LT150 and HT1000.

Anyway the filters are cheap enough just to give it a look.

Well my X1 didn't sell tonight as anticipated. The deal fell through so I may have to put off buying the H31 until I can get an ad in the local Pennysaver coming out next Friday. It should sell by next weekend however so I'm still on track to purchase the H31 by mid-March but I am bummed right now because this was almost a done deal and the prospective buyer pulled out at the last minute.

What do you all think of me keeping the X1 for 4:3 material? I'm actually now toying around with this idea since the pj didn't sell tonight. I have a 100" 4:3 screen which I love to watch TV DVDs and concerts and sports on with the X1.

I know I'm not going to be able to duplicate this experience with the H31 but I want to upgrade and enjoy movies in dedicated 16:9.

I think I can afford to buy the H31 without selling the X1 and I could probably mount them beside each other so as to not have interference between the two.

Is this kooky, interesting, or what??

Wayne

Looks like they finally have the H31 lamp up at Optomas site, and it is only 299...which is 100 less then the H30...Very good news...

Hey guys... I'm about to order one of these up, but I need to know what cables I need. I'm a total newbie.... thanks for any help you can offer.

I will be getting a Pioneer 1014 to power the sound. I will be using several different video inputs ( composite, s-video, component )... what cables will I need to run to the projector?

Will the 1014 route everything to the same cable or will I need separate cables for each source going from the 1014 to the H31?

The 1014 will be 25 feet from the projector. Do I need to rethink my room layout to try to get this closer?

Also, what cable will be good for this setup? S Video? Component? DVI?

Thanks again.