Originally posted by foxdvd
Looks like they finally have the H31 lamp up at Optomas site, and it is only 299...which is 100 less then the H30...Very good news...

I suppose you can't use that lamp in the H30?

No H30 lamp listed anymore....

Fleaman

Originally posted by mystery
Well my X1 didn't sell tonight as anticipated. The deal fell through so I may have to put off buying the H31 until I can get an ad in the local Pennysaver coming out next Friday. It should sell by next weekend however so I'm still on track to purchase the H31 by mid-March but I am bummed right now because this was almost a done deal and the prospective buyer pulled out at the last minute.

What do you all think of me keeping the X1 for 4:3 material? I'm actually now toying around with this idea since the pj didn't sell tonight. I have a 100" 4:3 screen which I love to watch TV DVDs and concerts and sports on with the X1.

I know I'm not going to be able to duplicate this experience with the H31 but I want to upgrade and enjoy movies in dedicated 16:9.

I think I can afford to buy the H31 without selling the X1 and I could probably mount them beside each other so as to not have interference between the two.

Is this kooky, interesting, or what??

Wayne

mystery -

you couldn't pry my x1 out of my cold dead hands if you tried. even if i'm not using it, i'm not ever going to get rid of it. i'm not saying it's going to ever be worth anything, but i consider it to definitely be a landmark product in the history of the home theater. and yes of course the 4805 too for all those 4805 owners about to flame me. ;)

i go back and forth between my ae700 and my x1 and i gotta tell you the x1 is a sweet little box. 4:3 and all. the picture 7' image is pretty incredible if you stop and think about it. i just hope the evolution of dlp and future products doesn't see silly needless features that spike pricing, because as it stands right now, projectors are far less than higher end direct view displays and in my opinion superior.

i say keep it. decide later if you want to dual mount. i may when i get my H31, but since the bulbs are under 300, i'll probably just save my x1 for my daughter.

Well, it looks like the 1014 will put everything out the component.... so now what is the best way to connect the component to the H31?

oh and i just wanted to say one more thing to mystery

i don't know how old you are, but would you buy your first car back if you could? well, i would. i had a 63" chevy impala.

'billy'

You're right. I put an episode of 'Gilligan's Island' on tonight. Yes I'm a 60's TV show junkie (Star Trek, Outer Limits, The Monkees etc...). Watching these shows and concerts and sports DVDs like the NFL films Super Bowl DVD sets are absolutely incredible at 100" 4:3 from 11.5' away!

I've been saving up to get the H31 and that is still the plan but I'm going to sure miss viewing these 4:3 DVDs blown up that big if I just rely on the H31's 1.66:1 aspect ratio.

I have too much 4:3 material to give this X1 up but I can't afford an HT1100 so if I upgrade I'll have to go 16:9 budget DLP. I want to have a quieter projector for serious movie watching, DVI, sealed optical path, and better blacks and contrast ratio, hence the need to go with the H31.

But all of those things aren't vital to have when you're watching sports or concerts or older TV shows in my opinion.

I'll have to seriously think about this. Selling the X1 would make it a little easier on the pocket book and allow me to possibly even afford a nicer projector than the H31 but then again, the next step up in performance is a huge step in price. I would really miss the ability to shoot this enormous 4:3 image and I don't want to regret getting rid of it so perhaps I should hold off at least until I've determined whether a 2 projector system will work.

Both of them would be here in the recroom as this is the only room in the house suitable for HT and WAF :D .

I don't know if it'll work with both of them on the same wall because it's kind of short and throw distances are different and offset angles too so it could be tricky and maybe even impossible.

Thanks for your encouragement. This is a challenge and we'll have to see but you're tempting me to just keep the thing and treat myself to the H31 and have the best of both worlds (at least the best that I can afford).

You must be older than I am because I wasn't old enough to drive until 1971 and I don't think that a Dodge Dart compares to your Chevy Impala :D

Wayne.

Originally posted by mystery
'billy'

You must be older than I am because I wasn't old enough to drive until 1971 and I don't think that a Dodge Dart compares to your Chevy Impala :D

Wayne.

If it was a 340 Dart, well then...

fleaman,

LOL, how does a plain old ordinary cousin to the plymouth volare with a slant 6 engine strike you? :D

All kidding aside though, that slant 6 engine just would not die. The body of that car was rusting all around it but Chrysler made that engine too well and had to eventually go to those ridiculous K-Cars. Remember them??

I wonder which projector has the slant 6 color wheel and which one is a K-Car/Vega/Edsel?? Oh better not go there! :) :)

Wayne

Originally posted by mystery
Both of them would be here in the recroom as this is the only room in the house suitable for HT and WAF :D .
Wayne.

So I guess the bedroom is out of the question? Any spare bedrooms? You could alter your 4:3 screen to fit it another room.

The WAF in my house can be pretty hard to get around sometimes - in fact, I'm trying my hardest to get HDTV - she thinks it is stupid and not worth the extra $$ each month.

But I have already made clear that my 4805 will be going in the bedroom in the future. When I upgrade to the first affordable 720p DLP (I consider affordable what I paid for the 4805), I will also upgrade to a bigger screen. So the old one will get altered to about 60" and will be the bedroom TV.

That will be a fun week installing the 4805 in the bedroom!:D :rolleyes:

:D Too funny Geno! :D

You are one brave fella. You're going to install your 4805 in a bedroom you share with a woman who thinks HDTV is stupid!? :)

Just do like I do and tell her that at least you're home and not getting into trouble somewhere. :D

Yup, we do have an unused small bedroom which could possibly take the X1. I have thought about it. I'd like to keep all the video toys in one room if possible though.

My first big screen TV was hard to get rid of too. Remember those RCA 52" front projection TVs that unfolded and the 3 guns would shoot the red, green and blue colors onto the mirror and then back onto the curved screen! I wish I still had that piece. A real relic and antique now but in it's day, it was pretty nice so yeah, it's difficult to part with things that you had for the first time.

It wasn't difficult to part with my 1st wife though. :D

Wayne

Originally posted by mystery
It wasn't difficult to part with my 1st wife though. :D
Wayne

:D :D :D :D

buwahhaahhahaa!!!

"I've been saving up to get the H31 and that is still the plan but I'm going to sure miss viewing these 4:3 DVDs blown up that big if I just rely on the H31's 1.66:1 aspect ratio."

Hey I like 4.3 as big a possible also. That's why the 1.66 is a great trade off. It xpands 4.3 cleanly and naturally. So for 16.9 1.85 material you get a total fill, 2.35 a tighter more natural border line. 4.3 you want a fuller picture 1.66 is there for you. You got garbadge in the TV image you hit Edge Mask. The H31 is loaded up with Aspect effects.

Bless you Tom! :)

That's just the encouragement that I needed to hear. Although 1.66 is smaller than 1.33, it's still pretty big and definitely better than viewing 4:3 material on my 65" Pioneer RPTV.

And if I spring for a 106" diagonal High Power, then the 4:3 image at 1.66 may even be almost as large as it presently shows on my 100" 4:3 screen.

Okay, let's do the math... My 100" 4:3 screen is 60" high x 80" wide (the same width as my 92" diagonal 16:9 screen which measures 45" high x 80" wide).

So the height of a 106" diagonal 16:9 screen is 52" which is only 8" shorter than my 100" 4:3 screen.

Tom, any rough guesstimate as to how big diagonally your 1.66 image is on your 106" screen? I imagine I'm not giving up that much real estate going from 100" 4:3 to whatever you're seeing on your screen at 1.66.

It may be a fair trade-off as you say.

Anyway, I just measured and the 106" diagonal screen will drop to the same depth as my 100" 4:3 screen does now so it appears that I don't have to worry about keystoning and tilting etc...

Thanks everyone for your advice. Regardless, I'm going to buy the H31 in about a week and we'll see whether the X1 stays or not.

Wayne

Can anyone tell me if you lose picture quality when you zoom all the way to maximimum screen size?

Originally posted by retroeric
Can anyone tell me if you lose picture quality when you zoom all the way to maximimum screen size?
The pixels get bigger and image brightness will be dissipated over a larger area but at the screen size you are looking at (77"W) this shouldn't be a problem.

Someone else will have to answer if there is a qualitative difference in the optics between a lens at max zoom vs. min zoom.

Originally posted by l08Op
The pixels get bigger and image brightness will be dissipated over a larger area but at the screen size you are looking at (77"W) this shouldn't be a problem.



Thanks. Do you think this will be a problem at a 9' seating distance?

Originally posted by retroeric
Thanks. Do you think this will be a problem at a 9' seating distance?

I sit at about 9.5ft away and my screen is 60" wide (not diagonal).

With 77" wide (not diagonal) and 9ft away, I would think you will see pixels. I see them sometimes on white text at my size.

BTW, I have the H30, not H31. But I hear the H31 pixels are a little more defined, my pixels are mostly fuzzy and not well defined (cheap optics I guess), so the H31 pixels might be more visible than my H30's.

My boss's early H30's pixels were more defined than mine, with both his and my H30 side by side, we could notice the pixels in his H30, but not so much on mine. His H30 seemed to have got lucky with the optics alignment.
But it's a funny trade off. I want perfect focus which would make my pixels more defined, others don't want to see the pixels and manually de-focus to make them fuzzy.

Fleaman

Attention prospective H31 buyers:

I just did an experiment with my X1 in anticipation of getting the H31 in the next week or so.

There is a movie called 'Clockwise' with John Cleese that just happens to be shot at 1.66:1 AR. Conveniently, I own it and decided to try it out today to see what the H31 might look like when handling 4:3 material at 1.66:1. I realize that this movie was meant to be seen at this ratio and there are no distortions like there possibly are when the H31 'stretches' 4:3 video or film. But I wanted to get an idea as to how this AR might fill a 16:9 screen.

Although it isn't as huge a picture as what 1.33:1 will show, it is still large and will exhibit bars on the sides of the image rather than the top and bottom. I measured these bars to be approximately 2" each on the right and left sides on my 92" diagonal 16:9 High Power screen. You can totally eliminate these bars by zooming to fill the sides completely but then you may have overspill of the picture at the bottom. This is not important information that you might be missing and the black masking should absorb it in most cases.

So, I think that I can live with the smaller 1.66:1 AR on the H31. It will be kind of cool transforming all 4:3 material to a 'widescreen' format. I'm just hoping that the scaling and cropping if there is any will not be too bad.

Tom seems to think that it's quite clean so I'm assuming that it will be pretty good.

Anyway, if anyone wants to 'preview' the H31's 1.66:1 AR as least to get an idea of screen fill, get yourself a copy of 'Clockwise'.

Wayne

Wayne,
I'll pipe in here as well. I'm with Tom, the H31's aspect ratio controls are quite handy for 4:3 stuff, and I'm quite happy with the size of the image within my 16:9 frame. I think I relate to you the best, as my setup was basically a modified 100" diagonal screen with a 4:3 Benq 6100 pj. My screen is adjustable, so I could make it appear as an 84" diagonal widescreen for dvds and HD(with the help of masking), and I could display the full glory of the 100" diagonal for videogames, TV shows, and such. I too felt reservations about selling the 6100 and losing the ability to see such a big SD image. After I sold the 6100, which happened very quickly I might add, I came home, looked at the spot where it used to sit, and felt a great sense of loss. I felt that I'd been impulsive, and that I'd made a mistake.

First, let me tell you that the quality of the H31 made me forget all about my worries. For all the good reasons that you listed above that tell what you want in your next pj, you won't be sorry!! The H31 is one heck of an awesome pj, and you'd have to spend thousands more to beat it by a little, IMHO. And, as you've seen, the 1.66 ratio is still a nice size. At one point I was determined to do exactly what you have suggested...keep the 4:3 machine as well. But, I wanted the H31 as soon as possible, and having the Benq to help pay for the H31 was a good idea. I've got to go back and take a look, as I'm not sure that my sidebars are as small as two inches each, but I could be wrong. I even figured out that if I wanted too, I could move the H31 further back in the room temporarily, and make a giant 100" diagonal image for games, since the pj just sits on a stand. This gives me the best of both worlds. The black sidebars would just spill onto my front speakers and light them up a bit, but who cares if you're immersed in a videogame?

In the end, I'd say do what's most convenient for you. If you want to keep the X1, you won't be sorry. You'll have everything you want. If you sell it and get the H31, believe me, you won't be sorry either. You'll still enjoy a nice size 4:3 image. You'll be so busy gawking at the image quality that you won't have time to notice any loss of screen size.

btacker,
The H31 has a direct component input, so you're ok. It also has composite video, svideo, and dvi. The dvi port should give you a straight digital to digital connection from your source components to the pj, providing the best possible picture, but the component signal is pretty great as well. You could run a 25' length of comp. cables to the pj, but longer lengths tend to lose signal quality. For such a long run you may want to consider hooking up a short component to vga adapter/cable at the source end, run a long vga cable to the pj, and then use the supplied vga to dvi adaptor. This would allow you to watch your component signals through the analog portion of the dvi port, and vga cables don't lose so much signal over a long run. I don't know of anyone who has actually tried to compare these two setups, but I'd put my money on vga. I might get around to testing this myself.

Sorry, an even longer post ahead:

My testing of my new Optoma H31 pj has progressed from component to dvi signals. Basically, dvi has blown me away. For a long time I've heard that dvi was mostly hype, and that component signals are just as good, if not better. Then again, it may be based on your source material and display device(fixed panel displays are said to benefit from dvi more). So far, every source that I've tried dvi with has given me a cleaner, smoother, more "packed in" image through dvi. It's especially clear when I put up a still shot with text. With component, the edges of the text is smeared a bit, but with dvi it is razor sharp. With dvi, it seems like I'm watching an 84" diagonal plasma display. It's very filmlike, and although I hadn't thought of my component connections as having video noise, the dvi signal makes me realize that the signal has much less noise in it.

In other words, it's like the effect of watching video on a smaller screen. Naturally, the smaller image image may look tighter, and seems to have more quality, as things tend to lose quality as the image size gets bigger. Well, dvi gave me the effect of a smaller screen with a huge increase in quality, but the image is still big. You know how good the image looks on those portable dvd players, or on your computer monitor? Well, that's how good my image looks now. It's simply unbelievable.

I have tested dvi on my Charter HD digital box, the Voom stb, and my worst upconverting dvd player, the Sammy HD931. I've read so many bad things about this player. The first thing I tried was a simple 480i component signal, so that the pj would do the scaling. WOW!! I was really impressed. In fact, the image seems smoother than what I remember from my Zenith 318 upconverted through component to 1080i. Of course, that was through my Benq. This means that the H31 has a first rate scaler built into it. Black levels weren't very good at first at 480i, but I'm still playing with that. It's better now. When I switched to 480p component, black levels were better still. Then I tried dvi 480p(it won't do 480i), and blacks were even better after some adjusting. Colors started to really liven up through dvi, and the whites were brighter as well. This HD931 player may be crushing the blacks, but I put on one of my hardest dvds to test blacks...The Matrix. I was very impressed. The movie looks darker than I have ever seen it on my theater screen. Blacks were very dark, and I also think that an important feature of the H31 pj is the contrast ratio(rated at 3000:1). Black levels are one thing, but a high CR allows plenty of shadow detailing to come through. Instead of seeing a murky filmy dark scene, you see more of what's in the scene, making a movie like Matrix watchable and enjoyable. I'll have to say that I didn't enjoy watching the dark scenes in Matrix on my Benq/Zenith 318 combo, even though the 318 doesn't crush blacks. The 318 did show plenty of image richness and great colors on the Benq, however.

Next, I'll have to test component and dvi on the 318 dvd player, and dvi from my Sammy T165 OTA tuner. I also have a buddy who has the Denon 1910 upconverting dvd player, and he'll bring it over soon for tests. I may also try my older Sony S7000 dvd player, since I know now that the H31 has a terrific scaler in it. The Sony player was the industry reference when it was first introduced(funny, it cost me a grand back then), and the component outputs are set for 480i only. I'm shamed by how little I spent for my 318.

I think I just figured out how to get my JVC 30K's signal to the H31 while still in digital form. The deck doesn't have dvi(I watch it through component), but it does have firewire. Since it's connected to my Sammy T165 OTA tuner, the firewire should pass the digital signal on to the Sammy's dvi port without any conversions, and then I'll just watch the JVC through the dvi connection. Cool...

To jedi35 or guitartman,
I have the 6100 as of now, and I want to know what is the offset of the H31? I know the top of the image for the 6100 is about 1 foot lower than the lens when ceiling mounted. is it the same or different? Also, what is the biggest image the H31 will deliver from 14' back.
Thanks,
Shiva

Originally posted by btacker
The 1014 will be 25 feet from the projector. Do I need to rethink my room layout to try to get this closer?
Also, what cable will be good for this setup? S Video? Component? DVI?
Thanks again.

Just to let you know, I run a 30' DVI cable from my 4805 to HTPC via M1 adapter - no signal loss at all, even compared to 5' DVI.

I also run 50' component cables from 4805 to a component switcher for Xbox, Philips DVP 642, Tosh K700, and eventually HD receiver (SA 8300). No signal loss there either. Before I ceiling mounted it, I was using 3' component from coffee table to DVD player underneath the coffee table. Before and after difference is nil.

So don't worry about the 25ft, unless for some reason the H31 needs a closer connection, which I doubt.:D :cool:

jedi,

Thanks for your inspiring post! :)

I think your set-up prior to buying the H31 does closely resemble what I have right now too. It's nice to know that you understand the buyer's remorse I'm having even before selling the X1.

I appreciate your advise and think that I could use the money from the X1 sale to spring for a new mount and perhaps a larger screen although 92" from 11.5' away is probably almost perfect and anything bigger may introduce too much SDE and rainbows and dimness etc...

Also, your comments about DVI are enlightening. I do have a video card (nVidea GeForce PCX 5300) with DVI out and connecting that from my HTPC to the H31 will probably make me pass out!! :D

I also have the LG/Zenith upconverting player with DVI out and I may try that but I'm going to have to do the firmware upgrade to fix the white crush on that player if I intend to use it's DVI ports.

What is your experience so far with calibrating the H31's RGB contrast and brightness controls? Are they tricky to adjust?

Wayne

Well I went and did it. Bought an Optoma H31. It should get here Wed and I can post my impressions if anyone cares. Though, it will be biased since this is my first ever projector....but I guess it would be good to get an idea how a n00b can handle the projector out of the box :D

Yes trilo,

Do give us a report when you can.

Jedi:
Next, I'll have to test component and dvi on the 318 dvd player, and dvi from my Sammy T165 OTA tuner. I also have a buddy who has the Denon 1910 upconverting dvd player, and he'll bring it over soon for tests.
This is what i'm waiting for!!! :D

Acutually since I have the 841 for a week or two before I decide on another dvd player, I gave it a shot through the DVI. I actually thought the picture was phenominal!! I really didn't notice the black crush??? So if the Denon is better I don't know how I'm gonna pry myself away from my milkcrate.

I watched some clips from Spiderman about an hour ago...holy WOW. I never realized the colors in some of the scenes like the "Parade" scene and the action picture quality shows such awesome definition. It is so weird, if I walked into a hi-end store and saw this pj for 3k or 4k I would believe the price is right on.

Trilobyte: This is my first pj also and I am very satisfied with the H31, let us know your thoughts when you get it in.

Well I have taken the plunge and bought my H31 last week. It has taken all my will to keep it in the box until my screen arrives (I did check it for shipping damage - none found). I also have to put the finishing touches on my theater - route cables, buy a new receiver, get a PJ mount, etc.

I have been waiting for the last two years to build a theater, but I had to have the space to put one. Now we have a new home and the basement is perfect for a home theater. I was torn between a HD native LCD PJ and the H31 or 4805, but I decided to save some cash and get my feet wet with the H31. I will post my thoughts and hopefully some pics of the theater in the next couple weeks once everything is in place. As always, AVS Forum has been a great resource.

Slakusr

Originally posted by LENNY 2112


Acutually since I have the 841 for a week or two before I decide on another dvd player, I gave it a shot through the DVI. I actually thought the picture was phenominal!! I really didn't notice the black crush??? So if the Denon is better I don't know how I'm gonna pry myself away from my milkcrate.



Lenny, have you had any problems at all with the 841? And where did you get yours? I am thinking of getting a refurbished one for $95 and download the firmware.

Originally posted by jedi35
Sorry, an even longer post ahead:

My testing of my new Optoma H31 pj has progressed from component to dvi signals. Basically, dvi has blown me away. For a long time I've heard that dvi was mostly hype, and that component signals are just as good, if not better....

Great read as always....

I have got to get in touch with you over the next week or so to see if we can't set up a shoot out between the H31 and the SP4805. I know that I am personally very interested in it and I am willing to bet a fair number of people reading this thread and the 4805 thread would be too...

The only real problem for me is that I am a virtual novice when it comes to FP in general and certainly when it comes to doing a real shootout. Maybe you would know best how to do it.... By the sounds of your testing so far, you definitely have better gear to run comparisons on than me - best I can do for right now is a Denon DVM-1815 for DVD (no upconverting players, and no M1-to-DVI adapter yet either) and a Dish 811 for HDTV (but I have yet to even get that hooked up to the PJ via either DVI or Component due to a total lack of time and proper motivation).

At any rate, I have your number and I will try to give you a call this coming week.

Thanks,
Dan

That would be great! ASAP please (of course:D ).

I was gonna pull the trigger on an H31 within a week...maybe 2 weeks now!

Yeah, I know a few have seen both, but there really are not that many (if any) side by side comparisons of the H31 and 4805 (I think?)

Hmmm.

Fleaman

Hi Dan,
Yes, it's time that we give the world what it needs... a shootout between the 4805 and the H31. We can do it...we have the technology...(can you hear the 6 Million Dollar Man music playing?). Am I that old? Sure, give me a call, and don't be afraid to leave a message if you don't get me. I'll return the call. My place is a real bachelor pad with wires all over the floor, but I do have a nice collection of source components. Come on over!!

mystery,
I'm glad that my posts continue to inspire you. Do you have the Zenith 318 dvd player, or the LG 3510A OTA tuner dvd player combo? I've had both, and found that the 318 killed the 3510A(I was testing through component on my Benq 6100). And thanks, you reminded me that the 318 needs a firmware update to fix the white crush issue through dvi. I'll lose upconversion through component, but won't need it after the comparison testing. I can still switch back and forth from dvi to component if I use a dvd that I've copied...oops, I mean backed up.

Actually, I've haven't touched the RGB contrast and brightness controls yet. I'm getting quite a lovely picture without messing with those. Maybe that will be my next watcher's upgrade after I'm more settled with the H31.

Oh man, I vegged out in front of this pj from the time I was home from church til about 3am. That's about 12 straight hours of watching!! I was so glad to hear that the bulbs are $299. Now I won't feel too bad about stacking up hours on the pj.

Lenny,
OK, looks like I'm ready to start testing what you've been waiting for. I'll update my 318 firmware first, and then get to it. Look to hear from me soon.

Shiva,
Hello, I answered a PM you sent me about the offset awhile back. I think that Tom may be able to give you a more accurate answer that me. My 6100 sat at the back of my room, on a high counter, so I had to angle the back end of the pj up quite a bit in order to lower the image onto my screen. This led me to believe that the offset for the 6100 was pretty big, but then I realized that it might have had a lot to do with how high the pj was sitting. I did use some slight keystoning to correct for the distortion problems.

The H31 sits fairly level on a stand much closer to the screen than the 6100. It seems that the bottom of my image is within a foot or so of the middle of the lens. The pj sits about 11 feet back from my 84" diagonal screen. I don't know if this helps you or not. You may simply want to check out Projector Central, or call Optoma for exact figures.

jedi,

I have the LG7832 which is the Canadian clone of the Zenith 318. Awesome upconverting player!

Slakusr,

Don't wait too long to use the H31 because each day it sits in the box is a day that your 90 day bulb warranty is reduced.

Give that puppy a workout on a concrete wall if you have to! :D

Wayne

Funny how many 480p naysays there were at the time of the IF 4805 launch, and still are. Now, 10 months later...what do we have here...? ;)
Should be obvious by now that there's much more to a great picture.

Originally posted by retroeric
Lenny, have you had any problems at all with the 841? And where did you get yours? I am thinking of getting a refurbished one for $95 and download the firmware.

I haven't seen the problems people are talking about yet, but maybe it is just my settings. I simply ran the DVI to the H31 and played with 480p/720p/1080i displays I think the 1080i has been the best so far. I bought it at Dell, for a buck and half. I'm still gonna pick up either the Denon or whatever but for $95 you can't really go wrong. How do you download the firmware and update it? I'm a nOOb at that stuff.

Jedi: Thanks!

Originally posted by LENNY 2112
How do you download the firmware and update it? I'm a nOOb at that stuff.


All I can tell you, is you go here.

http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/support/b2c_downloadcenter_detail.jsp?eUser=&mobile=N&oid=71109&cntType=FM&cntId=223101&lang=EN

Darn, I was hoping there would be a "read me" file. Does anyone know how to update this?:D

I'm home for the next 3 days, Lenny, and my main goal is to do a lot of dvi testing of my 2 dvd players. I'm curious, is there a firmware update for the Samy HD931? What does the update do for the 841?

There is no firmware update on the 931, and it looks like the firmware update for the 841 is just to help the DVI connection problem. I had no problem with the DVI connection, the first time I plugged it in to the H31 it was found.

jedi35

DaGamePimp already offered a HTPC setup tweaking session to anyone that sends him their H31. And I will throw in a ISF session on the DVI input. Then you will have a real shootout! Maybe somebody local will buy one and drop it by.

The only price is shipping - and potential buyers remorse - as we can be brutal. Even the $9K (at the time) Infocus SP7205 did not escape my pursuit for perfection. But then you would know the real pros/cons!

Just out of curiousity I was checking prices on the H31 at one of the big "shopper" sites. I had to chuckle at the description they had for the H31. Sorry if this was already posted. I think it's pretty comical. Perhaps Optoma is missing the target market and should take the advice of the marketing expert who wrote this. :)

"From classroom to classroom and office to office, wherever you need to make a presentation, there you are lugging your unwieldy projector behind you on a clunky A/V cart. It slows you down, makes you late for classes and meetings, and those wheels always zig when you want them to zag. What's more, you and your audience can't even hear what you're saying over the noise of that annoying fan. Shut it off and your projector overheats. What's the alternative?You can switch your dinosaur of a projector for Optoma's H31 projector, no heavier than a bowling ball, but with the same - even improved - performance of a larger model! Tuck the 4.4-pound projector under your arm as you hurry between meetings, lectures and presentations. Once you're there, enjoy the easy setup and operation, and marvel along with your audience at the bright, clear images, the sharp, crisp colors and the great quality of projection. You don't have to shout over the 32 decibels of fan noise - although once you've seen how the H31 works, you may want to anyway."

Cheers!

That is hilarious! Market an optimized for Home Theater projector to the business class.

Did they also have an ad touting the Dell 2300 for movie watching? :D

My apologies to those who use that pj for movies but I think you all get the drift.

Wayne

LOL, that is funny. :D

krasmuzik,
What? Did I read you post right? Are you saying that if I send DaGamePimp my H31 he will tweak it for HTPC use? Will it actually do 1:1 pixel mapping? I thought that there was a problem with this. And then you'll do an ISF calibration on the dvi input? How can you guys offer this and only charge shipping? Man that sounds too good to be true. I eventually want to build a new pc with a dvi output, and this would be the ticket. Please tell me if I'm misunderstanding something.

Also, would I see any benefits of HTPC tweaking if I'm not using a pc for viewing yet?

Lenny,
A moment of silence for the passing of my dvd burner today........ It died before I could burn a cd with the dvi firmware for the 318. Luckily I was able to install one of my older cd burners, and I now have the update cd ready. It took me all afternoon to get this done.

Oh man, I'm sorry to hear that!!!!! You want an 841?

:Listens to the sound of TAPS being played in the background:

I finally have an H31 on the way to me for review purposes and I already have a 4805 that I've been using. The 4805 has been calibrated using OpticOne and Avia Pro. I'll do the same with the H31 and we'll see how it goes. Should be fun. :D

Originally posted by MikeSRC
I finally have an H31 on the way to me for review purposes and I already have a 4805 that I've been using. The 4805 has been calibrated using OpticOne and Avia Pro. I'll do the same with the H31 and we'll see how it goes. Should be fun. :D

That is great to hear - can't wait to hear the results. I do find it odd that no magazine or website has done a direct H31 vs 4805 comparison yet.

Isn't it interesting that Projector Central decided to briefly compare the H31 with the AE700? Seems like they missed a step.

Wayne

mystery,

Still, it speaks volumes about the H31's capabilities that they compared it to a 720p pj.

But I know what you're saying - shouldn't they compare to others like it before moving up the chain?

jedi5

I don't have an online ISF service - nor does DaGamePimp have an online HTPC service. He just made the one-time offer since there are no comparison reviews or experienced HTPCers giving it a crack - we would be willing to help out if somebody loaned him one. It was his Optoma H30 that was contributed to our shootout last summer - though another local also offered they did not make it.

Sounds like MikeSRC is going to give it a crack - lets see if his reviews are as good as mine :D So maybe that will give you the necessary info!

Geno,

I agree. The fact that Projector Central decided to compare the H31 to the AE700 out of the blue in their review of the Optoma unit makes one think that there was possibly something in what they saw of the H31 that reminded them of the Panny.

Surely it wasn't only on a lark that they thought they'd just compare this WVGA pj to any old 1280 x 720 pj. Something had to spark their curiosity to not only put the two head to head but actually include their findings in their review.

Why didn't they use the 4805? I am actually thrilled that they did compare to the Panny and found the H31 to be surprisingly close at least relatively in image quality. This is because I will be purchasing this H31 in the next week or so once my X1 is sold and it's nice to know that a projector in this price range and resolution could go head to head with a more expensive one and come out without both eyes black and a bloody nose to boot!

However, I think that I've noticed a bit of a groundswell in a couple threads of interest in someone, anyone, to do a shootout between the 4805 and the H31. Not to bash anyone's choice in this matter of course, because they are both fine pjs, but there's a reason why we all love shootouts so much. It's an incredible learning experience and we all come away far more knowledgeable about not only the pjs in question but about this hobby in general.

But I must say that I was shocked to see this comparison near the end of the review. It was sort of like, "HUH?" It seems like the natural progression would have been to compare it to maybe the 4805, the NEC 410 or even the 510 and perhaps the BenQ 5120 and then for fun to go to the Z3 or AE700 but they just leapfrogged over all of these which would have been just as interesting to me, in order to go up against a very highly regarded LCD pj with HD native resolution.

I gotta tell ya, there has got to be a fair bit more to this than meets the eye. It's too weird. They don't normally behave like this in their reviews do they?

Anyway, it's all good for us down here in <$3500.00 land. :) :)

Let's get it on with the shootouts. Gentlemen, start your pjs!! :D :D

Wayne

I have the H31 and am looking at getting the OPPO OPDV971H DVD player. I am also thinking about getting the Harman Kardon AVR 135 for a receiver. I was wondering if there is a better receiver to use that has a DVI input/output? I hope to ceiling mount and would like to only run one cable to my projector. I also would be hooking up an xbox to the receiver via component cables. I am kind of new at this. Will that even work?

vreath, you are in the same stage I am. I'm looking at the Denon 3805 but I'd really like to do some more research to see if there is an "as good" for less. I even heard the Pioneer VSX-1014TX-K is worth looking at. I have an HD pack for my xbox that works just fine.

Originally posted by krasmuzik
Sounds like MikeSRC is going to give it a crack - lets see if his reviews are as good as mine :D So maybe that will give you the necessary info!

Actually, my goal is to mirror the one you did Kras. ;)
Still feeling my way around with the OpticOne reporting abilities.
Hope to have the H31 by the weekend.

Originally posted by MikeSRC
Hope to have the H31 by the weekend.

Super cool:D

At this point the only thing leaning my towards the H31 are the reports that it's quieter than the 4805.

Fleaman

Well, I have an offer on the table from a fellow AVSer who lives here in St. Louis to bring his AE700 over Thursday night. Hopefully others will join us, as there is interest in watching the new Star Wars trailer on my new H31. It looks like I'll have a chance to see first hand how the H31 compares to the AE700. I also think that kudos have to go to the H31 for being considered a worthy contender for a 720p pj.

I spent the bulk of my viewing last night getting more familiar with the component and dvi outputs of the Sammy 931. 480i has very nice resolution on component, as the H31 has a great scaler. However, as I kept watching I felt that the image didn't have enough pop. Whites were dulled, and blacks weren't very dark. Playing with the settings did bring out more shadow detailing, but I wasn't able to achieve brighter whites and darkker blacks ate the same time. Also, the widescreen image didn't totally reach from one side of the screen to the other. HD images and other dvd resolutionss did, however.

Moving on to 480p component instantly gave me much more of what I missed. The screen popped right away with brightness and darkness. And color was better as well. At 480i I had trouble seeing the pores on Neo's face as he lay at his computer during an early scene in The Matrix. 480p brought that detail right out. The truck really lights up Trinity just before it smashes into her phone booth, while it doesn't happen as well at 480i. Blacks seemed quite a bit blacker, though I wonder if this was just the effect of having much brighter whites on the screen. The bottom line is that night scenes looked like nighttime. There was much better contrast and color, to sum it all up at 480p component.

Switching to 480p dvi hit me with a jolt as I saw the first Sammy blue screen with white letters. I was struck by the richness of the blue, and the extra sharp edges around the letters, and the brightness of the white. I switched back to 480p component even before watching movie footage to see if my eyes were playing tricks on me. No, it was true, the dvi signal is quite a bit sharper and has richer color. This held true when I started the movie as well. This time, I could just about count the pores on Neo's face, and was just about blinded at the phone both scene. However, one thing bothered me. The Sammy is accused of over emphasizing sharpness to the point of introducing noise. I do in fact see this in the dvi signal. It shows up as a graininess in the image, and things can almost appear solarized because of this.

Switching to 720p did smooth things out a bit, at the cost of slightly less detail. However, color and contrast remained better through dvi. Today, I'll study dvi at 1080i and make a final analysis concerning the 931, and then I might want to try some other dvd players before moving on to the Zenith 318. I have 3 other 480p players not including the XBox and PS2, and my 480i Sony S7000. This should be fun.

Lenny, hang in there. I just want to really be ready for whatever I see with the 318.

I also moved the pj onto a slightly lower and more stable little table in front of the couch. This will also make it easier to switch back and forth when other pjs are brought in for comparisons. Did I mention that a local 4805 owner wants to come to my house for a shootout? Exciting. I'm a bit frustrated with the adjusting legs on the H31. There is only one back leg that adjusts, and the front elevating leg doesn't seem to want to lock into place if all you want is a slight rise up front. I simply just put come business cards under this leg.

The adventure continues.....

Tom, a word about the 4:3 modes on the H31. In order for me to get good image quality, I choose 4:3 mode 1, and either normal or 1.66 for full screen mode. 1.66 spreads fills the SD frame a little more, making the image a bit bigger while maintaining proper shapes(it cuts a little off the top and bottm to do this). However, somone mentioned that this mode filled most of his screen, giving him 2 inches of sidebars on each side. Does this sound right? My sidebars are bigger than that, but don't they have to be if I want to enjoy most of the 4:3 image real estate, and keep qood quality?

I tried 4:3 mode 3, which does fill the entire screen pretty much with proper shapes, but sacrifices a lot at the top and bottom, and the image quality isn't as good.

krasmuzik,
Does this offer extend to anyone who wants to do it, or just to the first person who send in his pj? If I'm not using an HTPC setup yet, will I see the benefits of HTPC tweaking in a regular theater setup?

I've been thinking of the Momitsu V880DX as a dvi player for my future H31/4805 purchase. I like the region free and PAL conversion (have some UK discs).

Some had problems with the earlier V880's, but supposedly they cleared up the problems with the deluxe (V880DX).

In this case I think the only thing I would care about would be DVI output quality. I think the V880DX might just be the ticket for me.

Unless anyone has any other suggestions?

Fleaman

jedi,

That was me with the 2" bars when I experimented on Sunday with 'Clockwise', as 1.66:1 movie.

I was using a 92" diagonal high power screen and I zoomed in as best as possible so as to not have any overspill in any direction onto the masking. What I found was that the image fit perfectly at the top and bottom but there were approximately 2" bars running from top to bottom on each side. The only way that I could eliminate them was to zoom further to oversize the image so that the top, and sides fit within the masking but the bottom part of the image then spilled over onto the masking. I view this is not a deal breaker as this information lost is really for the most part unimportant.

I expect that if the H31 is really utilizing a true 1.66:1 AR then you ought to have similar results if you test this out on a similar sized screen.

The difference being that there was no cropping going on as the movie I was testing was a true 1.66:1 AR.

You say that there isn't any distortion? That's good. Is the cropping a problem such as tops of heads cut off on close shots etc..?

It seems like we're the only two regular contributors to this thread online right now judging by the red highlighted checkmark next to our usernames.

Wayne

Originally posted by vreath
I have the H31 and am looking at getting the OPPO OPDV971H DVD player. I am also thinking about getting the Harman Kardon AVR 135 for a receiver. I was wondering if there is a better receiver to use that has a DVI input/output? I hope to ceiling mount and would like to only run one cable to my projector. I also would be hooking up an xbox to the receiver via component cables. I am kind of new at this. Will that even work?

I had to send the Oppo back, I couldn't get the colors right, even using colorfacts, plus it has heavy EE too much sharpness, it pixel crops also so you can't get 1.1.
Actually everybody hated it but I'm getting great results with the Toshiba HDMI player. no pixel crop, no color probs, smooth image, lousy remote ques are it biggest drawback. Plus it reverts back to 480p on power down but that's ok for the H31 because I used 480p here.

I wish I would be able to attend your PJ shootout, If I could find someone in the Charlotte area I would love to do the same. I am concentrating alot of my time looking for speakers and a receiver. I'm almost certain on going with Klipsch and the Denon 7.1 2805. What are all you guys using for speakers?

Originally posted by guitarman
plus it has heavy EE too much sharpness

EE = edge enhancement?? So some players (I think my DVP 642 is included) artifically sharpen?

And some DVDs are also produced with EE, right? I think Pirates of the Carribean is one of those DVDs.

This is irritating - I have to put my 4805 sharpness on softest for most DVDs to "wring" out the ringing. (pun intended)

Have you guys had the same experience with the H31?

Tom,
Which Toshiba HDMI do you have? Toshiba RD-XS52 or Toshiba SD-5970 DVD Player with HDMI?

D you lose anything converting HDMI to DVI?

Ok guys, I absolutely need a VGA to DVI adaptor to ensure running the H31 without bothering with any new cabling. No one at Optoma can confirm that the PJ comes with this adaptor. I sould be receiving my PJ in 2 days and I don't want to be sitting here with no way to hook it up.

Has anyone recently received a unit? Did it come with the said adaptor? Can it display progressive signals from a DVD player through this connection? My excitement is starting to turn into apprehension.

If it does not come with this adaptor where would I find it here in Canada.

Thanks

MAK,
I received my player on Monday from mwave. It did not have that adaptor. It showed it in the manual, but was not included.

Mike

jedi

No I am not in the business of online services. Sounds like MikeSRC will give a fair shake review - so no need for me to do one!

I can't speak for DaGamePimp - other than I know he is always up for HTPC tweaking - even if just to prove himself wrong or right!

Originally posted by therealgeno
EE = edge enhancement?? So some players (I think my DVP 642 is included) artifically sharpen?

Yes, some players exaggerate the edge enhancement found on all too many DVDs these days

And some DVDs are also produced with EE, right? I think Pirates of the Carribean is one of those DVDs.

Most DVDs have some edge enhancement, but thankfully many of them are not that noticeable. BTW, according to Kris Deering (DVD Shootout guy), the DVD of The Incredibles (due out next week) is the new reference standard. From his review: "we have a pristine image that is completely devoid of compression artifacts, banding, and edge enhancement. Fine detail is astonishing and depth of image is incredible. The colors are extremely vibrant and will showcase your home theater better then just about anything I’ve seen to date. This is one of the best examples of a reference DVD I can think of, spectacular in every way."

MikeSRC

Improvements to my review process I was considering switching to the 1976 CIE chart for subjective gamut rather than 1939 CIE chart (like WideScreen review) - also using the D65dE measure (I also want to figure out how to apply dE to primaries/secondaries - if one does not have the EyeOne spectrometer if these measures are reliable)

I am not sure OpticOne is as fancy in the reporting/charting as ColorFacts.

Feel free to PM/call/email - I owe you one for your remotes help!

I received my player on Monday from mwave. It did not have that adaptor. It showed it in the manual, but was not included.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

Thats what I was afraid of. Now I gotta find me the adaptor by Friday. Need help here people. PJ on the way... NO way to hook up. Where do I get this adaptor???

MAK,
Actually, I just went to their web site and pulled down the user guide pdf. It came with all adapters shown except the HDMI to DVI adaptor. So the only DVI adapter it came with was DVI to D-Sub. Is the D-Sub the VGA adapter you needed?

Sorry for the confusion, I read your post wrong.

Originally posted by vreath
Tom,
Which Toshiba HDMI do you have? Toshiba RD-XS52 or Toshiba SD-5970 DVD Player with HDMI?

D you lose anything converting HDMI to DVI?

The SD-5970, no loss, that's another thing it has plenty of power out of it's HDMI output. I also bought a Bravo D2 to use but it's weak and give me sparlies with the same cable run. The big drawback on the tosh is the remote commands, if you're not patient you'll go nuts.

MAK,

I sent you a pm. The adapter you want is included in Canadian boxes of the H31 so you should be okay according to one of the two Canadian dealers which we've discussed.

Otherwise, just go to Future Shop or Best Buy. These adapters are not hard to find. Just about any shop that sells computers peripherals will stock them.

Wayne

Originally posted by MAK
Ok guys, I absolutely need a VGA to DVI adaptor to ensure running the H31 without bothering with any new cabling. No one at Optoma can confirm that the PJ comes with this adaptor. I sould be receiving my PJ in 2 days and I don't want to be sitting here with no way to hook it up.

Has anyone recently received a unit? Did it come with the said adaptor? Can it display progressive signals from a DVD player through this connection? My excitement is starting to turn into apprehension.

If it does not come with this adaptor where would I find it here in Canada.

Thanks

I received my H31 just over a week ago and it did come with the VGA to DVI adaptor.

I'm using a component cable with a component to VGA & a VGA to DVI adaptor with mine.... so 2 adaptors, and it looks just as good as using straight DVI (and I have more picture tweaking options with component than DVI too).

Edited to add that I just noticed you're in Canada. I'm in the US, will that make a difference?

And yes, you can display progressive through this input. I'm displaying HDTV at 720p through it. I use the component inputs for DVD and the DVI input (with a component cable and 2 adaptors) for HDTV.

The H31 does not come with the component-to-VGA cable, by the way. I happened to already have one that I was using with my X1.

Thanks Chris, Wayne; and Mike for clearing the confusion. It does seem that the pj comes with the adaptor I need. Special thanks to Chris for finally confirming that the Component to VGA through DVI will in fact display progressive signals. I will sleep a lot better tonight :).

Cheers all.

mystery,
I see you zoomed in on the 1.66:1 image in order to get it fill the widescreen better. I didn't think of that. For some reason, I'm having a hard time imagining how you could zoom in that much and only lose a little at the bottom. Have you tried this with text in the lower portion of the screen? It seems to me that you would lose an equal amount of top and bottom to fill a 16:9 screen, while maintaining proper shapes. There are three modes for 4:3 material(1,2, and 3). I've used mode 1 for the best image quality and distortion-free shapes. Which are you using? I'm asking lots of questions because I'd love to get your results. It's so nice to have a pj with so many options at my fingertips. Maybe you already answered it, by saying that you are doing this with a true 1.66:1 dvd, while SD shows are not, right? And, would you be able to accomplish this with any size screen, not just a 92" diagonal?

Tom,
This overuse of EE might be what I'm seeing in the Sammy HD931 dvd player. Hopefully I won't see this in the dvi output of the 318. Also, are you suggesting that we forget about using 720p and 1080i for dvds on the H31? 480p should be the best?

ChrisDuncan,
What "straight dvi" signal did you compare to your component signal that uses 2 adapters?

Jedi35, I was watching HDTV on Voom with the DVI cable I got from Voom (I bought a 20' DVI cable but haven't gotten around to running it in my attic yet, so I just tried a shorter cable for testing purposes).

I tried both at 1080i and 720p with Voom. I still prefer 720p for both with this projector. If anything I have to give an advantage to using component through the DVI input (with adaptors) because that still allows to tweak the color setting (unlike using a DVI cable where that option is disabled). And the colors need some tweeking IMO.

Chris,

What happens if you calibrate using component to your desired levels, then switch over to DVI? Do the calibrations done over component hold when switched over to DVI or do you then feel the need to re-calibrate?

If you're using an HTPC, you can do your final tweaking using a software DVD player such as WinDVD 6 or ZoomPlayer.

jedi,

I don't have the H31 just yet. The ad for my X1 is slated for this weekend's Pennysaver so I hope to sell it fast and then purchase the H31.
My experiment with the 1.66:1 DVD (Clockwise) I found was quite favorable. I had to reposition the X1 (by slightly moving it on it's mount) and then playing with the zoom as well until I got the right combination of zoom and projector position in order to have the image stay within the masking on the sides and bottom.
This resulted in a fair bit of overscan or masking creepage (hey, I just coined a new term!) over the bottom masking. I didn't measure it because I was observing it from about 13' away but I determined that it was inconsequential information and not bothersome enough to be concerned about. Perhaps several inches overscan.

Here is something very interesting jedi: I did this same experiment with a 4:3 AR 100" matte white screen that is a pull-down and can be adjusted in increments to a suitable height.

What I found by using this 4:3 screen was that I was better able to get the 1.66:1 image to completely fill the screen WITHOUT LOSING ANYTHING! :) :) I had to of course, adjust the height of this screen to mimic a 16:9 screen in shape in order for the 1.66:1 to show without huge bars on the top and bottom.

After doing this, 100% of the image fell between the masking on all 4 borders with only a very slight bar spacing on all 4 sides between the image and the masking. This was using the zoom on my X1 but the zoom on the H31 should allow me to fill the screen completely with little or no overscan since it's a shorter throw.

So, it would appear that those who are into 4:3 material like I am would be advised to consider a 4:3 screen when utilizing the H31's 1.66:1 AR. I guess this would kind of make sense.

I will do more testing on this screen (if it doesn't sell along with the X1) when I get the H31.

Wayne

"Tom,
This overuse of EE might be what I'm seeing in the Sammy HD931 dvd player. Hopefully I won't see this in the dvi output of the 318. Also, are you suggesting that we forget about using 720p and 1080i for dvds on the H31? 480p should be the best?"

That 931 has the 23xxxx faroudja chip which had excessive EE, a reason back then we were choosing the Bravo with it's zero ee. The oppo has the 23xxxx chip also, with plenty of ee or over sharpness.

Pick a res that you think makes the best picture for your player PJ combo. I just chose 480p because it's a 480p projector and figured I should match it.

Originally posted by mystery
xed,

I believe that it was I who suggested PerfectMounts. I've been thinking about ordering the universal Everest mount as well and I'm glad that you did because your explanation of what it comes with is interesting. It sounds as if they send out too many parts to cover all of the bases since it's supposed to be able to work with any projector.

If none of the screws seem to fit then I would send them an email or give them a call about this. Are there printed instructions and are they good ones or are they ridiculous as so many can be?
Hi, sorry for taking so long to respond to this, been too busy with work to mess around with my projector. I got in touch with their technical support people and it seems they didn't send out the right set of screws so they're shipping me new ones immediately.

I have to say their service is very good. Once I get them, it should be pretty straight forward.

Also, I'm wondering how hard it might be to get these M3 screws locally at Home Depot for instance.

How do the parts feel? Are they heavy and sturdy to the touch? Do they seem like they could easily hold the H31? How does the rest of the mount assemble together? Is it fairly easy or frustrating? I'm just wondering if it's better to just save the money and go with their dedicated H30/31 mount which costs a lot less depending on which quality you go with.

Wayne I didn't check but I suppose they would be available at one of the hardware stores locally, though I've looked for speciality items (e.g. blind nuts) and they are not all equal in all regions. So some stores may have metric bolts and some don't, really hit and miss from my experience.

Chris,
Wow, it's amazing that you and I are seeing such different things with the same equipment. I found that my Voom stb provided a superior picture through dvi. Although color controls are not present for dvi, I found that color was well saturated and looked right. I did, however, need to adjust brightness and contrast. Things were way to bright at first on dvi. I'm finding this to be true with all my dvi sources...dvi just seems to be a brighter signal. Hey, if component is working for you, go for it and keep your color controls intact. I watched Deadwood and Carnivale on HBO HD last night on Voom through dvi, and kept picking my jaw up off the floor.

mystery,
Sorry dude, I forgot that you haven't gotten your H31 yet. My bad. I've come to the conclusion that I haven't gotten your results because I'm not starting with a true 1.66:1 dvd. More good news about the H31....I have found that the H31 has extremely good memory for chosen settings that are not only dedicated to source inputs, but also to different resolutions on a particular input. Cool!! That means that I was able to adjust the picture for 480i component, and when I switched to 480p component, the pj switched back to the settings I made for 480p. So yes, dvi has it's own memory settings. And I think that the pj gives you a couple of user settings on top of that(don't know if that's per source or what). This is a very well designed little pj, meant to give very pleasing HT results.

OK the H31 vs. the 4805 shootout got setup this morning. It will happen here at my house on Sunday afternoon. Be there or be square. :D :D Actually, another buddy from AVS is coming over to get his first look at my pj, so we'll have a third set of eyes for evaluation. I'm still hoping to have the AE700 in my home tomorrow night for comparison after we watch the SW trailer, but I haven't gotten confirmation yet.

Tom,
Thanks for that answer. That explains what I'm seeing on the 931. I guess I don't see it so much on the component output because I've heard it doesn't use the Faroudja chip for that output.

Originally posted by krasmuzik
MikeSRC

Improvements to my review process I was considering switching to the 1976 CIE chart for subjective gamut rather than 1939 CIE chart (like WideScreen review) - also using the D65dE measure (I also want to figure out how to apply dE to primaries/secondaries - if one does not have the EyeOne spectrometer if these measures are reliable)

Feel free to PM/call/email - I owe you one for your remotes help!

Thanks Kras,

I've been using the 1939 chart as well. I'll have to check out the '76. Cliff just added a CR and screen uniformity measurements to the software that I haven't tried yet either.

Regarding the players with the Faroudja 23xx chip, excessive edge enhancement is due to poor implementation of Faroudja True Life enhancement feature. Not much you can do about it. The Samung does not use the Faroudja chip for its component output, but if you're using that output, you'd be bettewr off with a different player.

You should calibrate the DVI input separately from the component input. The same settings will not apply to both.

Right tune DVI with your Avia disc, HDTV you'll have to use your eye and first lower the brightness level. I find HDTV very bright. Look for a feed or commercial that displays a letterbox image within a 4.3 frame. You'll see the side black bars and also horizontal letterbox bars, these horizontal letterbox bars will be on the bright side, lower the brightness till the letterbox bars match the side black bars and maybe a click up for better shadow detail. Plus after this you could increase the contrast a little to make white whiter.

You could also use the advanced rgb color adjustments afterwards if needed. But you may be ok with just getting the blacks right.

Chris,
Wow, it's amazing that you and I are seeing such different things with the same equipment. I found that my Voom stb provided a superior picture through dvi. Although color controls are not present for dvi, I found that color was well saturated and looked right. I did, however, need to adjust brightness and contrast. Things were way to bright at first on dvi. I'm finding this to be true with all my dvi sources...dvi just seems to be a brighter signal. Hey, if component is working for you, go for it and keep your color controls intact. I watched Deadwood and Carnivale on HBO HD last night on Voom through dvi, and kept picking my jaw up off the floor.

Honestly they're very close to my eyes. I'll try DVI again tonight and try turning the brightness down some. Using DVI with HD reminds me kind of when I switch my DVD player to progressive--the picture is very bright and sort of washed out but once tweaked will look nice. It's just that after adjustments I don't find a lot of difference and I would like to increase the color a little bit with DVI. They're both still very good looking and I'd be happy with either. But knowing what I know now, I probably wouldn't have spent the money on a 20' DVI cable like I did.

Are you using 720p or 1080i with Voom? I like 720p better. Most importantly let's hope that Voom survives! I don't want to stop watching MonstersHD!

Chris,

What happens if you calibrate using component to your desired levels, then switch over to DVI? Do the calibrations done over component hold when switched over to DVI or do you then feel the need to re-calibrate?

If you're using an HTPC, you can do your final tweaking using a software DVD player such as WinDVD 6 or ZoomPlayer.

mystery, that's a good question. I didn't change any settings when I switched cables out. I'll have to try it again to be sure, but like I said it seems that brightness will have to be lowered even with the same settings when going through DVI versus component. Again, though, both look nice and I don't think there is a lot of difference after calibration that my eyes can see.

Mike and Tom,
Thanks for confirming what I believed about the Faroudja chip in the 931, and the seperate settings for inputs on the H31. As I stated about, after I got my dvi black levels and contrast looking good, I didn't find a need to mess with the finer color controls. In fact, I want to watch things for awhile longer before I attempt to calibrate with Avia or DVE.

Chris,
I've only tried 1080i with Voom. I figured that I should let the full resolution come through to the pj and let it scale things down to native resolution. Doesn't 720p require 2 steps of signal processing as opposed to one? I did try 480i and 480p on my HD cabel box. I'll have to watch more, but I think I liked 1080i better.

I certainly won't be sticking with the 931 as my main dvd player, but I think I like 1080i dvi the best.

FedEx delivered my Optoma H31 and 92" Panoview screen today.

I got the HT area painted yesterday, so I temporarily put the PJ in about the place where it will be mounted & then hooked it up.
Glad I got the info here (on the HTPC forum) about getting a DVI cable, which I ordered with the PJ.

I put up an image on the wall - I have to say that even though it was mid day and I was projecting onto a dark green wall (painted Evergreen color flat), I was amazed at the image.

I made notes and then put up the screen, hung from black 1/4 " steel hooks.

Then I closed the curtains & popped in AVP & fired up the zoom player, WOW!!

I don't have the speakers mounted to the walls yet, I'm not sure if putting them up above the screen will be better or having them at about ear level while sitting would be better.

Anyway, this is great!! The screen fits exactly in my space with only about 3" space on either side. I'll post a play by play set of pics soon - if I can stop playing with this new PJ long enough that is... :)

Congrats, rbastedo. It sounds like you're gonna love your new pj, just like me!!

I set up a comparison between the X1 and the Optoma h31 with both projectors shooting on half of a portable screen and a mask blocking the light from the other half. Most images are component sourced.

I used Digital Video Essentials (DVE) to calibrate each machine using their color filters. Neither projector matched perfectly the standard with the X1 the farthest off. There is no question the H31 produces richer looking colors but the X1 has a very pleasing natural tone. I would say video in the H31 looks very colorful while the X1 has a more earthy natural tone. I was unable to change the color settings of either projector to exactly minic the results of the other. They both seem to have their own characteristic colors.

First the black levels. I turned on each projector's blanking screen and it was immediately obvious that the H31 has far deeper blacks. If you used a paint program to look at the image below you can see the blacks for the H31 are at least 2-3x deeper.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/year1980a/detail?.dir=/668f&.dnm=1c3e.jpg&.src=ph

I compared the color bar output from each projector. The H31 has deeper richer colors. The image below is a good representation except the H31 yellows are nicer than the image shows and the X1's colors are a bit more washed out. You can't compare colors at the transition zone because my lens masks caused some loss of light there.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/year1980a/detail?.dir=/668f&.dnm=96d0.jpg&.src=ph

Despite the very nice H31 colors the X1 can hold its own. Here is part of the flower picture from DVE. The H31 is on top and the X1 below. The colors were very pleasing for both projectors and if you blow the image up, the black levels look identical in this complex image. If anything I felt the X1 was more pleasing.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/year1980a/detail?.dir=/668f&.dnm=3fa7.jpg&.src=ph

The reds and yellows on the X1 are more muted. This DVE flag image shows the red and white differences. I think the H31 has truer colors, but the X1 image is nice in its own way as well. The X1 image is on the bottom half.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/year1980a/detail?.dir=/668f&.dnm=d42f.jpg&.src=ph

One of my big concerns is showing 4:3 video and how that looks on a dedicated 16:9 projector. A 4:3 pj, like the X1, scales the image to 800x600 so I put the H31 in 4:3 mode and used the zoom to blow the image up to almost the same size as the X1. The X1 image was significantly clearer in this situation. This was not true in the 16:9 material where both projectors were evenly matched. Below is a blow up of some lettering on the screen; even though the H31 image is smaller it is still fuzzier. This fuzziness continued when watching regular TV. It was almost as if the H31 was using a filter to smooth out the image because the background noise was significantly less on bare walls in the scene. I prefered the X1 output for its significant clarity on this material but noise was noticable.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/year1980a/detail?.dir=/668f&.dnm=4b09.jpg&.src=ph

Finally I compared s-video output to component. The component video is better for most material. The X1 image is sharper in this mode too. Here is a kewl image of the color resolution loss when going from s-video (on the bottom) to component (on the top). You have to copy the image and blow it up to see the missing information on the right.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/year1980a/detail?.dir=/668f&.dnm=d688.jpg&.src=ph

Both the H31 and the X1 did a better job on regular 4:3 TV material when using their s-video input. The s-video even seemed to sharpen some of the fuzzies the H31 had.

I then watched some of the 16:9 HD output that is on the DVE dvd. Both projectors produced clean very pleasing images. The H31 is brighter. I used my camera to meter a 100% white spot from close up (X1 = f3.5 1/80, H31 = f3.5 1/200, 42" diag image) which means the H31 is a bit over 2x brighter. I did see some rainbow effects on the X1 but rarely on the H31; not enough to bother me at all.

Over all I would say the H31 has blacker blacks, is brighter, is very colorful, has minimum rainbow and produced a very plasma like look at 42" diag projection size. The X1 has more muted colors, definitely shows light spilling above 16:9 material, shows 4:3 material more clearly and has a very pleasing natural looking image. Either one puts on a great movie.

Your Optoma defaults are clearly a very high blue color temp - this is obvious in the flag. Did you switch to color temp 1 from color temp 2? I would say your X1 is in warm or warmest color setting which is what is should be - but you could turn it on coolest setting and turn on the presentation and get a similar flag to the Optoma. It would not be right.

How old is your X1 lamp? Do you suffer the color wheel contamination? I don't see better color bars - but I do see dimmer colors on the X1. The H31 has a weak Yellow - and a strong Cyan - and a purple Magenta - again an indication of a high blue color temp.

I do see better contrast on the H31 - which is a given - the X1 is lacking in movie mode there.

Good choice of screenshots though - very clear at pointing out the calibration issues to the trained eye.

Originally posted by krasmuzik
Your Optoma defaults are clearly a very high blue color temp - this is obvious in the flag. Did you switch to color temp 1 from color temp 2? I would say your X1 is in warm or warmest color setting which is what is should be - but you could turn it on coolest setting and turn on the presentation and get a similar flag to the Optoma. It would not be right.

How old is your X1 lamp? Do you suffer the color wheel contamination? I don't see better color bars - but I do see dimmer colors on the X1. The H31 has a weak Yellow - and a strong Cyan - and a purple Magenta - again an indication of a high blue color temp.

I do see better contrast on the H31 - which is a given - the X1 is lacking in movie mode there.

Good choice of screenshots though - very clear at pointing out the calibration issues to the trained eye.

H31 color temp is 2, X1 is on warm. Both pjs are fairly new I just borrowed them over night for a comparison. I did turn up the blue to 5 from 0 on the H31 because the sky shots were tourquoise compared to the X1's nice blue.

Orion,

Since you didn't post this, I suspect that you didn't compare what the H31's 1.66:1 AR would look like compared to the X1's native 4:3.

This would be an interesting thing to do. Did you get a chance to try out this unique AR on the H31 and if so, how did it compare to the X1.

I presently have the X1, plan on selling it, and the ad is in the local buy and sell paper starting tomorrow. I intend to purchase the H31 next week.

I understand that from your vigorous defense of 4:3 AR in another thread that got rather heated, you probably prefer the X1 and it's native 4:3.

Has your opinion changed in this regard? Would you move to the H31 based on your findings?

Thanks for doing this comparison. Very interesting.

Wayne

Originally posted by mystery
Has your opinion changed in this regard? Would you move to the H31 based on your findings?


I just briefly looked at the 1.66:1 mode and besides making the image a bit bigger I didn't see an improvement in image quality.

For some reason the X1 produces a sharper image in 4:3 mode but with more video noise. It looks as if the H31 has a filter that smooths the image a bit and in doing so it adds a bit of blur. I don't know that you would notice it except by direct comparison. In s-video the H31 blur improves but still doesn't match the X1. Also the image is a bit squished horizontally in the H31 in 4:3 mode with peoples faces being maybe 10% narrower. I didn't see that in 16:9 mode.

I like bright, saturated colors and the H31 definitely has those but I also like sharp images which the X1 has. I watched a whole movie last night with both pjs showing the same signal on half the screen. Two things stood out. The H31 definitely has blacker blacks which cut down on video noise (or is that the "filter" working again?) and the H31 has more "lollipop" colors. I found myself watching the H31 image more often and when looking to the X1 immediately noticing it wasn't as pleasing. However, when ever I watched the X1 alone I really liked the skin tones and more natural look it had. The X1 also had more intense rainbow effects. I would be satisfied with either pj but I have to admit, to show off to my friends I would prefer the H31, not only because of the lack of rainbows but the more candy like colors and brighter image. If only it had the same sharpness I wouldn't hesitate.

Is the H31 worth almost 2x the X1? Objectively, no. I will have to think about it, but I will probably go with ego and get the H31. Now if I can only convince my wife we could use a bedroom pj!

Would I trade up from the X1 to the H31, no, not at the present price. If I had the X1 I would wait for the higher resolution pjs that will be coming soon. I think resolution is very important to the overall image. The X1 is a nice pj, with a great image. If rainbows don't bother you, then I'd wait. If they do, then its a different story.

So no my opinion hasn't changed on 4:3 mode. The X1 was sharper as I expected. However I did change my mind about a 16:9 being able to show a good 4:3 image, if you zoom it up to the same size.

Originally posted by orion456

For some reason the X1 produces a sharper image in 4:3 mode but with more video noise. It looks as if the H31 has a filter that smooths the image a bit and in doing so it adds a bit of blur. I don't know that you would notice it except by direct comparison. In s-video the H31 blur improves but still doesn't match the X1. Also the image is a bit squished horizontally in the H31 in 4:3 mode with peoples faces being maybe 10% narrower. I didn't see that in 16:9 mode.

I like bright, saturated colors and the H31 definitely has those but I also like sharp images which the X1 has. ....

...if only it had the same sharpness I wouldn't hesitate.

...So no my opinion hasn't changed. 4:3 in the X1 was sharper as I expected. However I am convinced a 16:9 can show a nice 4:3 image if you zoom it up to the same size.

You didn't mention in your review if you tried the dvi input. According to some of the reviews here, the H31's picture is sharper with the dvi input.

Of course you would need a dvi player or HTPC, but being that many dvi dvd players are fairly cheap, I myself am thinking that a dvi player will be purchased along with a H31 when I'm ready.

Fleaman

Originally posted by fleaman
You didn't mention in your review if you tried the dvi input. According to some of the reviews here, the H31's picture is sharper with the dvi input.

Of course you would need a dvi player or HTPC, but being that many dvi dvd players are fairly cheap, I myself am thinking that a dvi player will be purchased along with a H31 when I'm ready.

Fleaman

I don't have a dvi player either so I couldn't try it out. It would be interesting to see if the dvi output was sharper than component output. Interestingly the H31 improved its sharpness on s-video. I assume a different filter setting is used to smooth the output.

Yep, that the first thing I tried on my H31....svideo. I was surprised at how good it looked. I haven't seen an X1, but I find that I'm happy with how the H31 handles 4:3 material on this input. I'll also pipe in here and say that I strongly agree that the dvi input kicks things up to a whole new level(or 2) on the H31. Of cource, that kind of comparison can't happen with the X1. It looks like I'll be able to compare this with the 4805 on Sunday(and maybe the AE700 tonight).

Thanks for that insightful review. The screen shots were interesting.

I agree, the DVI at 1080i was unbelievable...to me it is better than 720p. Like Jedi, I was very surprised at the image throught the s vid... much better than the variety I've seen anywhere else.

orion456

On H31 colortemp2 is at 9500K, you want colortemp1 which is at 7500K. There is not a 6500K setting. This will tone down the blue lights.

I suspect the differences in sky would have been fixable with the tint and colortemp1 control - but you used the grey scale control adding blue which made whites and secondary colors even bluer than they already were!

On the X1 I think warm was 6500K and warmest is 5500K. So your X1 is the reference calibration - which is why you like the natural colors - because that is what they are.

Surprised at the brightness diff if they are both new - based on guitarman's previous measure! When there are brightness differences side by side really does not work - the eye is drawn to the brighter colors making other colors appear to have less value. Simply hold your hand over the screenshot and look at them one at a time -the colors look better (which is what you did with the masking!)

Originally posted by krasmuzik
Surprised at the brightness diff if they are both new - based on guitarman's previous measure! When there are brightness differences side by side really does not work - the eye is drawn to the brighter colors making other colors appear to have less value.

Thanks for the info. You really need a few days to compare pjs. Over night just isn't long enough...assuming you sleep sometime.

You don't think the pic of the color bars shows the H31 as brighter? Or were you saying the effect is just better contrast?

I am saying brighter makes the colors look better in comparison - but view in isolation - the X1 colors look fine - as opposed to dim and murky and unsaturated in comparison. The H31 does look brighter - but I think that was because it was uncalibrated with more blue.

Is 7500K the lowest setting on the H31? I think the recommended value for B/W is around 5500 (right?), so B/W movies would seem to look way too harsh and cold on the H31. That would suck.

uwradu

I'm pretty sure the Hollywood standard is D65.

Edit: As usual, I'm wrong. See below.

An old B&W movie is probably mastered at D65 (as all media DVD/HD/OTA is). But at ISF the recommended using the 5500K setting for B&W (which BTW Infocus does not have either - so you have to detune to get there)

Originally posted by krasmuzik
An old B&W movie is probably mastered at D65 (as all media DVD/HD/OTA is). But at ISF the recommended using the 5500K setting for B&W (which BTW Infocus does not have either - so you have to detune to get there)

Hmmm, I thought D65 was the Hollywood standard. So why not pre-tune to 5500K rather than 6500K?

When you ISF'd DGP, did you tune to D65 or 5500?

Damnit, I'm confused again:rolleyes:

therealgeno

Well D65 is the hollywood digital media standard - but film stock for the old B&W was actually at 5500K. So even if it is mastered at D65 - purists think it should look more sepia tones. Since it is B&W there are no colors to harm by detuning to 5500K. I think slide film is also at 5500K - so if you can preserve that on your computer thru digital imaging it is good to make that a preset to keep color purity. At ISF training they had an expensive 9" 3gun CRT setup for both 6500K and 5500K to show off the diff it made for B&W films.

I actually had someone ask about 5500K calibrations - was that you uwradu?

But I ISF at D65 - but if someone was happy to pay the extra inputs fee - I would be more than happy to also do 5500K!

My wife mentioned how much clearer the X1 was and that she didn't want the H31 for that reason. So now I am wondering if anyone else sees their H31 as fuzzy or if the image is sharp and the one I tested was defective?
I did notice that when the H31 menu system came on it was very clear but the underlying image remained fuzzed.

I would like to know if you think your H31 has a nice sharp image or if its a bit fuzzy.

Originally posted by krasmuzik
I actually had someone ask about 5500K calibrations - was that you uwradu?
Hardly, I'm far too cheap for ISF. But I have come across this issue in some of these threads, possibly brought up by you or Tom. It makes sense though, even playing around with the color temp settings on the computer monitor while watching a B&W movie you can really tell how you get a warmer and more brownish picture with lower settings. I think it's mostly the yellowish whites that give it that warm glow, because the blacks don't really change all that much.

Originally posted by orion456

For some reason the X1 produces a sharper image in 4:3 mode but with more video noise. It looks as if the H31 has a filter that smooths the image a bit and in doing so it adds a bit of blur. I don't know that you would notice it except by direct comparison. In s-video the H31 blur improves but still doesn't match the X1. Also the image is a bit squished horizontally in the H31 in 4:3 mode with peoples faces being maybe 10% narrower. I didn't see that in 16:9 mode.

I like bright, saturated colors and the H31 definitely has those but I also like sharp images which the X1 has.

that's slightly off-topic. As a recent purchaser of the IF 4805 who is a little surprised at the softness of the image that PJ throws, I'm wondering if the X1 is sharper than the 4805, albeit with a variety of other limitations? Since the X1 is (I believe) available at bargain basement prices, if it is sharper I think I might prefer to save some money and wait rather than keep the 4805.

Also, what is the relative size of the image cast by the X1, the H31, and the 4805?

Many thanks --

Originally posted by orion456
My wife mentioned how much clearer the X1 was and that she didn't want the H31 for that reason. So now I am wondering if anyone else sees their H31 as fuzzy or if the image is sharp and the one I tested was defective?
I did notice that when the H31 menu system came on it was very clear but the underlying image remained fuzzed.

I would like to know if you think your H31 has a nice sharp image or if its a bit fuzzy.

My menu on my H30 is razor sharp...I use it to focus. But yeah, by comparison the background movie image is fuzzy. But I think it's because the menu is a simple pixel, simple color...like looking at your watch, it's sharp. A movie is a complex image that crosses over the pixels. Anyway, someone else can probably explain better than myself.

What you might want to check out on your H31 is your pixel block squares. put up a blue blanking on and check to see how uniform your pixel lines are across the whole screen (get up close and personal with your screen!). On my H30 some are sharp and other areas of pixels are so fuzzy (out of focus?) that you can hardly see the pixel lines!
I think this has to do with the optics...budget optics and maybe also not so good alignment specs, I dunno.

Fleaman

Originally posted by Hoppy
that's slightly off-topic. As a recent purchaser of the IF 4805 who is a little surprised at the softness of the image that PJ throws, I'm wondering if the X1 is sharper than the 4805, albeit with a variety of other limitations? Since the X1 is (I believe) available at bargain basement prices, if it is sharper I think I might prefer to save some money and wait rather than keep the 4805.

Also, what is the relative size of the image cast by the X1, the H31, and the 4805?

Many thanks --

Hoppy, I don't want use the H31 thread to discuss the 4805, but I would like you to post your experience in the 4805 thread. I would like to know what you viewed, equipment, etc.

Plus, others would like to hear what you think and maybe give you some tweaks - b/c I have to put my 4805 sharpness of softest most of the time.

Anyway, back to the H31..................sorry btw for the OT

Fortunately, due to reading here and over in HTPC, I bought a DVI cable with my H31 so they both came in the same shipment.
I connect to my HTPC and I must say the widescreen DVD's are wonderful.
Today I calibrated with the Finding Nemo THX tool, then went ahead & watched Nemo with my 4 YO daughter.

WOW - that was COOL.

This is my 3rd PJ, first two being an old Philips VGA LCD unit, then an Epson XGA PJ. Then I got wised up by reading here & bought the H31.

I put it in place and mounted my new 92" screen & speakers and have watched a couple DVD's & some tv. This is everything I hoped for.

Thanks guys for all the posts here that are so helpful, there are (I'm sure) lots of other lurkers here who really do benefit from your experience.

I would like to know if you think your H31 has a nice sharp image or if its a bit fuzzy.

Mine is very clear, but this might be a subjective thing. It might have to do with the quality of your input. I haven't tried anything but the DVI<->DVI connection - I don't need anything else at this point.

On the H-31 thru the DVI my picture is very sharp on all DVD's..I'd like to soften it a little but I notice on some xbox games like Ghost recon 2 it tends to be a little (fuzzy is not the word) but maybe over soft? Is this the game? Halo2 and NFL 2k5 are back to the very sharp side. Xbox is thru S-video.

Originally posted by LENNY 2112
maybe over soft?

Yeah, over soft is the correct way to say it.

The worst was component video and the best was s-video. Neither was as sharp as the X1, even when watching HD output from DVE.

orion,

I dunno, I'm beginning to think that something might have been wrong with the H31 that you tested. Coming from a 4:3 pj, I think my images look just as sharp, if not sharper than my Benq. Ofcourse, things tend to change from channel to channel, and even within the same channel. We all know that. But I don't find myself looking at the HJ31 image and saying....gee, I wish that were sharper. I have actually adjusted my sharpness down from factory spec.

It's been awhile since I viewed svideo on the H31. It's time to take another look.

BTW, the AE700 comparison didn't happen last night. However, the owner wants to bring it over on another day. The 4805 comparison is still on for Sunday afternoon.

krasmuzik,
If we choose temp1 for the H31, how do we correct for the loss of whiteness in the whites?

Originally posted by LENNY 2112
On the H-31 thru the DVI my picture is very sharp on all DVD's..I'd like to soften it a little but I notice on some xbox games like Ghost recon 2 it tends to be a little (fuzzy is not the word) but maybe over soft? Is this the game? Halo2 and NFL 2k5 are back to the very sharp side. Xbox is thru S-video.

Seems to me that if the other games are sharp and Ghost Recon 2 is not, then it would have to be the game.

Just wanted to persuade you to get the HD Pack for your Xbox - very worth it, especially if your games are 480p and higher. And you get to play in 5.1 DD surround.:D :cool:

jedi35

Like Tide - "whiter" white is actually not - rather it is a bluer white! It looks whiter to you because it is brighter. But all of your colors and greys are wrong! colortemp1 gets you closer - but you would have to calibrate with a colormeter to get D65

Calibrating an Optoma you will lose brightness - it is not designed for optimal light transmission at D65. Make up for it with a gain screen - like High Power or VideoSpectra for your 92" screen.

Any ISF educated eye will say those flag pics - the brighter bluer one is not white!

LENNY 2112

DaGamePimp has mentioned that no way around it - only way to get sharp XBOX output is spring for the HDPack. Even then you might want to crank up the sharpness. You lose a lot with the SVideo connection - you need to do the 480P.

I recieved my H31 earlier this week and the picture is wonderful compared to the X1 I was using, and this is with S-video. I am contemplating ordering a DVI and component video cable and installing them. Is it worth the expense, it is a 20ft run, of the component video cable if I already have a VGA cable run through the ceiling for the X1? I could just use component breakouts on both ends or the DVI-A/VGA adapter.

Originally posted by reomi
I recieved my H31 earlier this week and the picture is wonderful compared to the X1 I was using, and this is with S-video. I am contemplating ordering a DVI and component video cable and installing them. Is it worth the expense, it is a 20ft run, of the component video cable if I already have a VGA cable run through the ceiling for the X1? I could just use component breakouts on both ends or the DVI-A/VGA adapter.

S-video was fine on the H31. But when I went to component video the image became blurry.

Hi all,

I finally buy the H31! It just arrived yesterday. The colors are great!
But....I cannot dysplay via dvi from my computer....ATA Radeon XT600....Anyhelp?

Bob

Can anyone with an H31 tell me if theirs does this:

When the H31 is on, and I push the power button, it asks me if I want to shut it off. If I push it again to confirm power off, the lamp will shut off but the pj still runs and the light around the power button stays on. Is this normal?

retro,

That sounds like a soft power down option just like I have on my X1. You're probably fine leaving it that way for short periods while the fan most likely runs quietly in order to keep the H31 cool. If you don't intend on watching for awhile you might be best off to do a hard power down by pushing the off toggle button on the projector itself, rather than the remote.

Others who actually own the H31 can correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Wayne

Originally posted by retroeric
Can anyone with an H31 tell me if theirs does this:

When the H31 is on, and I push the power button, it asks me if I want to shut it off. If I push it again to confirm power off, the lamp will shut off but the pj still runs and the light around the power button stays on. Is this normal?


This is normal. The manual describes the process. After hitting the power button on the remote for the second time the power indicator on the projector will flash red for approx 2 minutes while the fan exhausts. Then it will begin to flash green. At this point it is ok to do a hard power down. As to a "soft off" which is intended for when you are taking a break from viewing but intend to come back shortly, I am not sure if there is such an option. Guitarman or Kras would have a better idea.

Can anyone here remember how your H31 was packaged? Did it come already in its carrying case, or were they seperate? I am returning mine the the online store, and I can't seem to fit in the box if the pj and case are seperate. Uh oh lol... HELP?

The H30's were packaged in the carrying case, then in the box with the foam supporting the case/projector.

I'm sure the H31 is the same way.

Fleaman

Originally posted by fleaman
The H30's were packaged in the carrying case, then in the box with the foam supporting the case/projector.

I'm sure the H31 is the same way.

Fleaman

Whew I feel better now. For some reason I thought I remembered them coming seperately. Now it fits. Thanks!

Originally posted by orion456
S-video was fine on the H31. But when I went to component video the image became blurry.

What DVD player? Some of them are soft. The Sharp DVD with Faroudja was real soft. Plus JVC's are little smooth and look softer than the Panasonic's and Phillips Q50, all analog players.

Sometimes too sharp is no good, like with the Oppo and the Phillips Q50 also. At least with the Phillips you can lower DCDI sharpness.

I'm ready to buy the H31. I already have a DVI to DVI cable so will this do or will I need some other kind of cable or adapter. Also, please recommend any other useful accessories. My viewing distance will be about 12.5' with a throw distance of 14'.

Thanks

One of the things I noticed about my H31 right out of the box was how sharp it was. I think I talked about it in my review. In fact I found the 4805 to have a soft look that I could never get rid of all the way. It was almost like the focus was a bit off.

If someone finds the image from the H31 soft, I would guess it is something wrong with the unit, or some connection. Or maybe the X1 is sharper, but someone would have to let me know that it is sharper then the 4805, because like I said above, my H31 is....

Originally posted by 1Time
I'm ready to buy the H31. I already have a DVI to DVI cable so will this do or will I need some other kind of cable or adapter. Also, please recommend any other useful accessories. My viewing distance will be about 12.5' with a throw distance of 14'.

Thanks

That cable will work, you can use a DVI-I or DVI-D single link type. What DVD source will you use?

Originally posted by guitarman
What DVD player?

Pioneer DVR 520H. The X1 looked real sharp on the same inputs so I'm thinking its a bad machine, especially when s-video was much closer to the X1 and then component got worse.

Did you try running the player as interlaced with the component hookup. I think most every H31 user will be opting for DVI/DVD at native aspect.

Originally posted by guitarman
That cable will work, you can use a DVI-I or DVI-D single link type. What DVD source will you use?

My DVD source is a HTPC. Each connector on my DVI cable fits my video card; I think that's DVI-I. My concern is I've read the H31 requires a DVI-I with HDCP and I don't know what HDCP is or if my DVI cable has it. :confused:

HDCP is copy protection for TV or dvd players that copy protect. Never used HTPC, does it send out a copy protected signal?

Nope - which is probably why HTPC is so popular for HD/DVD rips....
An HDCP receiver is only required to respect the rules when connected to an HDCP source. Does not matter what it does if it is connected to a DVI only source (some may refuse to play - other's are happy to play!)

reomi,
My vote for the best quality image from the H31 is dvi, no question. This will give you the absolute best image that this pj can do. It is worth the expense. I haven't tried a long vga run with adapters at both ends, but I'd guess that this would be better than a long run of component cables, since vga tends to lose less signal strength over long distances. Has anybody tried this yet? At the very least, it should be just as good as your component signal, and you are already setup for that.

retroeric,
After your lamp goes out for a power shutdown, does your pj fan stay on for more than 2 minutes? After 2 minutes, the fan should shutdown, and the power button should flash green....you should not see a constant green light.

Originally posted by jedi35

retroeric,
After your lamp goes out for a power shutdown, does your pj fan stay on for more than 2 minutes? After 2 minutes, the fan should shutdown, and the power button should flash green....you should not see a constant green light.

Yes fan stays on forever. This is all moot since I apparently have a lemon. The lamp light went on about every other time I powered on. It's already packaged up and ready to be sent back. Big letdown. By the time UPS ground gets it there, they inspect it, and send me back a new one via UPS ground, it will be another two weeks.

Originally posted by 1Time
My DVD source is a HTPC. Each connector on my DVI cable fits my video card; I think that's DVI-I. My concern is I've read the H31 requires a DVI-I with HDCP and I don't know what HDCP is or if my DVI cable has it. :confused:



HDCP stands for High Definition Content Protocol and is a copy protection
scheme to eliminate the possibility of capturing content sent digitally from the source to the display. HDCP enables a secure connection between devices such as DVD players and HDTV set-top-boxes using an authentication and key exchange procedure before video and audio is presented.

The source device will query the display to make sure that the equipment is HDCP compliant before video is shown. Non-HDCP devices such as PC's and older model DVI products will work with any DVI compliant display, but the HDCP compliant boxes will show an image only on HDCP compliant display.

Nearly all consumer video equipment with DVI/HDMI connectors are HDCP compliant including DVD players available on the market today. You can continue to use the component output of these devices without worry of HDCP, but expect the analog connections to slowly disappear from future products.

Anyone having probs with the power cord being touchy? I love this PJ but twice now early on just shifting it on a box and gingerly touching the power cord causes it to just shut down...real quick power interruption. I know, I need to mount it...mount's on the way, so I've just been setting it up to drool at it for the time being. But I'm just wondering if I should maybe get it replaced BEFORE I mount it if that's a prob. I know it's bad for the lamp when the power just gets killed off like that. Immediately after it 'reboots' like that the lamp light comes on and it won't function or even turn off...have to kill the power from the plug.

hmmm, apparently just a couple of posts above Retroeric may be having the same prob. perhaps we have a problem here? I hope not, love the PJ.

After over an hour of researching I've decided to sell my DVI-D to DVI-D cable and buy a new one. Please recommend a cable that has a male DVI-D connector on one end (for my HTPC video card) and a connector on the other that is compatible with an Optoma H31. My main concern now is whether a less expensive (thinner) cable will work satisfactorily or if I should get a more expensive (thicker) cable.

Thanks

Why are you selling your cable. The DVD-I port on the H31 is compatible with a DVI-D cable.


peace

Originally posted by SIMJEDI
Why are you selling your cable. The DVD-I port on the H31 is compatible with a DVI-D cable.


peace

Oh... well, I guess I won't then. Thanks

I haven't had any problems with my power cord, and I've bumped it more than once by mistake. Also, I had a power brown out, which caused the H31 to shutdown suddenly. I hated it. However, I was able to power back up normally, but I waited awhile to be sure. I will admit that so far I have had only one false bulb start, but that happened a couple of time with my Benq. I'm not worried just yet, it's been fine since then.

Man, am I watching a lot. I already have 84 hours on my bulb. Good thing that replacements are relatively inexpensive. I'd better start saving up, 'cause I'm going to be watching this thing.

Today, I was delighted to view the svideo output from a couple of dvd players through my IScan Plus(480p) and the image is really filmlike. The Iscan puts out a vga signal, which I ran into the dvi port of the H31, using the supplied adapter. This gave me back more image control options than dvi-d. This connection doesn't have the depth of detailing of dvi-d at 1080i, and the blacks aren't quite as dark, but I loved the smoothness, and the sharpness was still pretty good. It's amazing what svideo can do. I tried the Sony S7000 and the Sammy 931. However, there's a big problem....image tearing. I can't get rid of it, no matter what frequency or phase setting I try. It showed badly on both players(fast motion, camera pans), so I'm sure that it's probably the Iscan going bad. I hope to try it on another pj to confirm.

I'm hoping that I'll still have the 4805 in my home this afternoon, but I haven't heard from the owner lately.

WHAT!!

No shootout yet!!

YIKES!

Here I've been imagining you guys carefully comparing images and he's left you with the check. :D

Hmmm... sounds like a possible case of H31itis to me. :) :)

You can't dance without a partner jedi! You may have to make something up for us just to give us something to read!

Wayne

But lemmings don't need a shoot-out.

True, but I don't mind the gamblers... thanks to Nevada's gaming revenue I pay no state taxes and now can afford to be a lemming.

Originally posted by tommyj3
Anyone having probs with the power cord being touchy? I love this PJ but twice now early on just shifting it on a box and gingerly touching the power cord causes it to just shut down...real quick power interruption. I know, I need to mount it...mount's on the way, so I've just been setting it up to drool at it for the time being. But I'm just wondering if I should maybe get it replaced BEFORE I mount it if that's a prob. I know it's bad for the lamp when the power just gets killed off like that. Immediately after it 'reboots' like that the lamp light comes on and it won't function or even turn off...have to kill the power from the plug.



Is your cord pushed all the way in? The first time I hooked mine up I pushed the cord into the H31...plugged it in and started it up. I bumped it after about 5 minutes, and the power went off then on. The cord pushes in about half way, but feels like it is all the way in. I pushed hard and the cord went in another 1-2 inches. So make sure your cord is pushed all the way in.

Well looks like my H31 gets here tuesday. Week later than I thought (it got backordered) :/

Originally posted by retroeric
By the time UPS ground gets it there, they inspect it, and send me back a new one via UPS ground, it will be another two weeks.

If you are sending this to Optoma directly, they will probably next day air out your fixed or new projector.

They always next day air out my H30's, even though I'm in California and about 1-2 days max via UPS ground.

I always note and tell them (Optoma) to send my H30 back to me via ground, not air. It saves them money and I get it within the same delay.

But they send it out Next day air regardless.

But, if you are dealing with a dealer, then of course that would be their policy.

Fleaman

Originally posted by foxdvd
Is your cord pushed all the way in? The first time I hooked mine up I pushed the cord into the H31...plugged it in and started it up. I bumped it after about 5 minutes, and the power went off then on. The cord pushes in about half way, but feels like it is all the way in. I pushed hard and the cord went in another 1-2 inches. So make sure your cord is pushed all the way in.

And if your cord IS pushed all the way in, and still touchy, then yes, SEND it BACK!

There is a bad connection on the plug socket or bad pwr cord. That pwr cord seems specific to the H30/H31 so may not be easy to find at Rat Shack. But, maybe a well stocked computer store might have the same type of plug.

Fleaman

Originally posted by fleaman
That pwr cord seems specific to the H30/H31 so may not be easy to find at Rat Shack.

What exactly is different about it?
I was thinking of getting a plug with a 90* angle that would go toward the rear.


peace

Originally posted by SIMJEDI
What exactly is different about it?
I was thinking of getting a plug with a 90* angle that would go toward the rear.


peace

Well, on my H30 it is a 90* plug that goes toward the rear!

Is the H31 different?

The plug that goes into the projector is not your normal IEC style plug. I haven't seen one like it before, but I'm sure other equipment use that style.

Fleaman

I don't have the projector yet but in the pdf manual it shows a picture of the power cord but you can't make out what kind it is.


peace

My H31 power cord looks like an IEC model to me. I will try plugging in another cord I have to make sure.

Slak

The H31 use a typical computer type power cord, the H30 has the Mickey Mouse type.

I have an H30, am looking to add an H31 to my home. Although in general the H30 does an impressive job of scaling/deinterlacing I do notice

COMBING ARITIFACTS

frequently, particularly when one scene changes completely to another or when something moves quickly across the image, that something will break into a comb-like structure. I have searched the H30 thread and can't find mention of this. Am I the only one who notices this?

Does the H31 exhibit this also? This is the one thing that makes me consider the 4805 (Faroudja deinterlacing) projector.

Thanks!
Robin

Originally posted by guitarman
The H31 use a typical computer type power cord, the H30 has the Mickey Mouse type.

Does it come with a 90* angled plug?


peace

It's a straight plug.

Originally posted by guitarman
It's a straight plug.

Thank you.


peace

Originally posted by Robin
I have an H30, am looking to add an H31 to my home. Although in general the H30 does an impressive job of scaling/deinterlacing I do notice

COMBING ARITIFACTS

frequently, particularly when one scene changes completely to another or when something moves quickly across the image, that something will break into a comb-like structure. I have searched the H30 thread and can't find mention of this. Am I the only one who notices this?

Does the H31 exibit this also? This is the one thing that makes me consider the 4805 (Faroudja deinterlacing) projector.

Thanks!
Robin

If you are really a fan of Optoma, you could simply get a player with faroudja or SI built-in. There is a Panny with it that retails for $229 that received the "Secrets 480p Award."

See, this would be easier to answer if a H31 vs 4805 shootout would actually happen:rolleyes:

Edit: Well, it did!!!:D

I have posted the results of the 4805-h31 "shootout" in its own thread for anyone interested in seeing them.

A big thanks to jedi35 (Adrian) for hosting the event and to Bob for helping us with an additional pair of eyes.

Dan

Thanks for the responses to the power cord condition...to be honest, I may have not pushed it in all the way either...I'll make sure next time...but when the power shut itself off like that the first thing I did was jam at it in there to make sure it was connected...we'll see. If it keeps up I'll get a replacement. Won't be ticked off about it, hey machines sometimes have hiccups...not going to denounce an awesome PJ because of one fault in one unit. Thanks guys

H31 vs Infocus 4805


OK, the shootout did happen. We were at it until late last night, and then I had to run a couple of errands. I was too wiped out to get back on the board last night. First off, let me say that there are a couple of disappointing things, or rather, things that we didn't get around to comparing. We didn't do any viewing of svideo on either pj. And we didn't do any 480i viewing on the 4805, while we did on my H31. So, I'm not going to be able to comment on how well the Faroudja Deinterlacing performs next the the H31. Sorry. We spent so much time viewing my H31 that when it came time to hookup the 4805, time was an issue. In the next couple of months I plan to switch pjs with Dan(4805 owner) for about a week. He will have his HT in place by then, and we can make further comparisons, after having lived with our pjs for awhile longer. On to my comments...

Please remember that these are informal comparisons, without fancy color meters or such. We were mainly concerned about how each pj looked through the same cables, viewing the same sources, on the same screen with the same lighting conditions. Besides Dan and me, another fellow AVSer, Bob, was with us. Bob was not present for the initial H31 viewing, but saw the 4805, and plenty of H31 scenes after Dan had to leave.

Starting off with my Charter Moxi box on the H31, through component at 480i, we were quite pleased at how the scaler in the H31 handled HD material. We just watched some HD video footage from HDNet, which is always pretty clean and clear on Charter. The picture didn't live up to what the HD settings could do, but was easily enjoyed for what it was. My only complaint was the romantic color push on red at color temp1. Dan didn't notice this at first. Moving on to 480p on Moxi, the picture actually was a bit worse. It seems that the scaler in the pj is better than what's in the Moxi box. The 480p picture was softer and fuzzier. Next we tried 720p, and the glory of HD hit us. Nice sharp images, great color and detail, and the black level shot up as well. Again, there were no issues with sharpness, and we did look at some SD channels as well. We got deeper blacks with great shadow detail at 720p. No loss at 1080i, which I liked best, but Dan actually thought that 720p yielded the best picture. At this point, I gave Dan a taste of dvi, but had to come from my Charter HD digital box instead. This was not a fair thing to compare, because Dan's 4805 has an M1 digital port, and his M1 to dvi cable has yet to arrive in the mail. But I wanted him to see what dvi can do, and what he can look forward to. HD through dvi(we set 720p) was something to behold. It's so much better it's not even funny. I was glad someone else was there to see it. The detailing is so fine it gets crazy, and the whole image gels together with a kind of quiet stillness that has to be seen to be understood. Enough said.

We then moved on to some dvd watching. At Dan suggestion, so that we would have a better frame of reference, we ran the THX optimizer off SW EP V(Empire), which I hadn't done. The player was the Sammy HD931. When we pulled up the very first video test pattern, it became very clear to both of us that the component outputs of the H31 have a red push. The grey scale patterns were tinted too warm. Changing to other color temps showed the introduction of more and more blue, but nothing looked correct. We left it at setting 1(7500K), knowing that things could be calibrated better, but would require some time and experimentation. After setting contrast and brightness to the satisfaction of the test, we moved on to watching discs.

The 480i component out on The Matrix left us a bit flat. Blacks weren't very deep at all, and worse, there was very little shadow detail. Colors were just a bit muted. This was a complete contrast to what we found with the Moxi box. Then again, I had things adjusted to what my eyes enjoyed with the Moxi...no calibration tools used. Upping the resolution to 480p really improved things. Blacks started to get deeper, and we got good shadow detailing. Night scenes became enjoyable, instead of wondering what was happening in the shadows. We could see it for ourselves. Not only did the image get deeper, with more 3D effect, the brights got brighter. Lights in the movie glowed brighter, and lit things up better. Colors were much more vivid and saturated. Although unfair, we did go to the dvi signal just to see what was what. Come on, you have to know, right? Dvi brought things up to a whole new level. If you have this dvd player, you must use dvi for the best pictures. The signal was very clean and detailed at 480p dvi, but Dan liked 720p the best. I thought that 1080i was the most detailed, but at the cost of a somewhat harsher image because of the increased edge enhancement. 720p softened this a little while still giving good image sharpness and details. Blacks were deeper through dvi, with good shadow details. Also, this is very important....we made sure that we ran the THX tests through dvi as well, and the dvi signal showed a MUCH more correct grey scale. Red push was not there, as it was on component. Also, there seemed to be much more contrast between the shades of grey than with component.

SW EP V did well at 480p component, but Dan was struck by the "redness" of the stars against the deep black of space. This did not show up on dvi. Needless to say, the dvi 720p images of SW were stunning...just magic!! And this was on a dvd player that is known for black crush. It's funny, the THX test showed that the 931 was able to pass blacker than black.

We did a brief check of HD signals on Voom, since Dan had never seen the service, and we only viewed at 1080i component and dvi. We got similar results to what I reported earlier. Gladiator on TNT HD was stunning on dvi.

A lot of time had passed at this point, and we needed to move on the the 4805. Bob was just arriving as Dan was setting up. Dan is much more impressed with the design and build quality of the H31 than the 4805, citing that the H31 feels heavier and more solid. He noted that the H31 is quieter, as if to prepare me for the noise of the 4805. Although the 4805 did sound a bit louder than the H31 when no movie sound was playing, none of us were bothered by it while watching. Both units were still much quieter than my former Benq 6100.

After connecting the 4805(limited to component), we ran the THX tests right away for comparison purposes. Dan returned his pj to factory presets, and we could see right away that his OTB settings were practically spot on. Brightness and contrast defaults revealed all the 8 little boxes that we need to see in the first THX test(my H31 did not), with no hint of red push(he did tweak up a down a couple of notches, but nothing major). Dan initially thought that my H31's dvi signal revealed more more variations in the shades of grey boxes, but after seeing his 4805 in my home, he agreed that there was plenty of contrast. The 4805 is rated with a CR of 2000:1, as opposed to the H31's 3000:1. We wanted to see if this showed up in the picture, and to what degree. Dan noted that the white letters of the tests showed SDE, whereas he didn't see any from my H31 until he got up and started walking towards the screen. At just a foot or 2 closer, you start to see SDE on my H31, but seated on the couch it is a none issue.

We also started viewing with Matrix, but unfairly jumped straight to 480p component because of the time(Dan has a wife and new baby). As we viewed, the SDE effect was not bothersome at all as long as we were watching movie scenes. It only became apparent on letters or screen areas that had a lot of white. Dan also thought that he saw a little SDE on my H31 in the whites through dvi. I did not. The component signal did seem cleaner and was much brighter through the 4805, even though this pj was rated at lower lumens. Dan didn't think it would work, but I turned on some bright room lights, and we still got a watchable picture. At only 750 lumens?? That's the brightest 750 lumens that I've ever seen. It was striking. On brighter scenes, blacks did look nice and deep. And they looked pretty good in darker scenes, but the edge has to go to the H31 in this area. The black letterbox bars weren't as black as on the H31 at a similar THX calibration. More on that later.

There were times when I thought that the image on the 4805 was softer than the H31, and other times when things seemed fine. Dan played with the focus and improved things a bit. I think that I would need to live with the 4805 for awhile to be sure, which is why we'll swap later on. However, for now I'm going to give the edge to the H31 since there were no problems or questions concerning sharpness at dvd player 480p component. Colors were bright and vivid, and I am inclined to give the edge to the 4805 because it was brighter in general, and the grey scale was more correct OTB than the H31. Never fear, I think that the H31 can be corrected, but it requires more effort, perhaps ISF calibration.

The dvd image resolution was great on both Matrix and Empire. I saw more color in the darker scenes of Matrix on the 4805. I think that colors looked more natural on the 4805's component, given it's more correct grey scale. Remember that colors loked quite natural through the H31's dvi input. Dan thought that the 4805's component image approached what the Sammy 931 was doing over dvi. I'd say that they were close, with the edge going to the H31.

The 4805 exhibited a strange shimmering effect in the dvd picture that I noticed first, then the other 2 guys saw it. It was most clearly seen in brighter backgrounds of a solid color. The H31 did not show this at all. I thought that at this point it might be a good idea to switch to another dvd player. Low and behold, it was time to test the Zenith 318, which I had not even seen on the H31 yet. (Lenny, are you out there??). We did the THX testing again, and saw that there were differences in the 2 dvd players. After making adjustments, we set the Zenith to 480p, and only viewed the 4805 at this setting. Time was running out. The shimmering effect was totally gone. It was my Sammy 931... the 4805 didn't like something about that player. The images were lovely, and very rich. This is a much better dvd player than the 931. Before leaving, Dan wanted to see some HD on the 4805, since he'd not yet made the needed connections for HD at home. HD looked wonderful, as expected. The images were very bright, and highly detailed, only missing the deeper blacks of the H31, IMHO. We watched a little Voom at 1080i and Moxi at 720p.

Bob's conclusions were that H31 and the 4805 are the 2 best values in their price class, perhaps even the whole pj market. The H31 needs some work on the component feed to render more neutral colors. It has a shorter throw for those with smaller rooms, and shows less SDE from 14' back than the 4805. He guessed that maybe the fact that the 4805 had to be moved back and zoomed up a lot to fit my screen, but my H31 is using almost full magnification to sit where it is. Still, the optics aren't causing more SDE on it. Sorry, I know that this doesn't make sense. Dan noted that his 4805's image appeared brighter than mine, and he didn't see a huge difference in CR(later views of the H31 made me think otherwise). Buying either pj wouldn't be a mistake, just get the one that fits your room better. Dan left, excited about the possibilities of further improvents with an all digital conection with dvi, seeing what it did to my H31's image. He was satisfied that neither pj seemed to be clearly superior over the other in general. I do agree with this assessment.

Now Bob hadn't gotten a look at my H31, so I hooked it back up, this time with the Zenith 318. We went straight to dvi, and the THX setup. My 318 had been setup with the older firmware that allows upconversion over component, but produces white crush over dvi. I was hoping that it wouldn't be too bad, and would allow for some quick viewing. Man, was I wrong. The THX test patterns revealed a white crush problem that couldn't be fixed with any amount of contrast or brightness adjustment. The big box of 8 squares just kept melding into one giant shape, no neatly divided 8 boxes of differing white levels. I needed to go ahead and do the firmware update that solves the white crush problem, but cancels upconversion over component. I have a cd for both firmwares, and can change it at will. The process only took a couple of minutes, but afterwards I couldn't get a picture on dvi or component. After some toggling of sources, and messing with cables, dvi popped back on. I did read somewhere that the 318 doesn't handle 2 high rez connections at once, but dvi failed when it was the only connection. Oh well, it worked finally, so I popped in Empire. Wow, it hit us very clearly. The 4805 is indeed brighter, but the black level of the H31 is stunning. Bob owns a pre-dvi Sony HD CRT tv set, so you know he is into blacks, and he was amazed. The room went darker when there was a starfield, and there was no lack of shadow detail. The whites were still nice and bright, it's just that the 4805 lights up the room more. The images were indeed richer than what I remember from the 931's dvi signal at 480p. Sorry, we didn't test the other resolutions, or the 318's component feed. I'll do that on my own.

Bob and I enjoyed the fact that the H31 could go darker, and for that reason the image seemed to be easier on our eyes. This is important for long viewing...lack of fatigue. If you watch such a bright image for a long time, and it's the only light in the room, it could tire you out. The testing of other sources for Bob just proved what I already knew....you can see a difference in CR between both pjs. The black levels are better on the H31, and for me and Bob, we like this better than having such a bright image. If you can control the room lighting, I'd say go for the blacks(H31). If you have ambient light issues, go for the brighter 4805. Bob will eventually build a HT in his basement, and needs the shorter throw of the H31. He will get excellent blacks and great shadow details. Both pjs had excellent resolution, and I'd imagine that the 4805 on dvi would be awesome. When we put on Matrix, the night scenes really looked like night. If I raised the brightness, I could have gotten as much color as the 4805 in dark scenes, but I'd lose my dynamic image. Having a higher CR does in fact make a difference. I'm just sorry that Dan wasn't there to see the return of the H31 image.

Oops, I forgot to be specific about our setup conditions. we were doing these comparisons on an 84" diagonal matte white 1.0 gain screen(Dalite InstaTheater). The pjs were table mounted on a stand in front of my couch, which is about 14' back from the screen. The H31 sat about 11', whereas the longer throw 4805 had to move back right against the couch. Neither pj had light spill out the back or sides, and both vent out the front. The H31 vents out the front and the right side, and the case gets a bit hot on that side, where the bulb is. The 4805 didn't vent out the sides at all, and I found that the case was quite a bit cooler during normal operation. The 4805 case looks larger to me. The 4805 has a speaker, whereas the H31 does not. I can't imagine that any of us would actually use the speaker for HT purposes.

More logistics....we found that the remote for the H31 was much more user friendly and handy than the 4805's. The H31's remote lights up brighter than any remote that we'd seen, all buttons light at once, and there are words on the buttons so you know what they are. The 4805's remote buttons light up at a much less vibrant shade of reddish orange color, and you have to strain to seem them in the dark. Dan hated the fact that there are only symbols on the remote buttons that light up that you have to learn, not words. Also, you have enter a menu on the 4805 to get to the aspect ratio controls, while they are available as dedicated buttons on the H31. Ofcourse, the 4805 didn't have the neat AR options that the H31 give you(or I didn't see them), and the 4805 misses the image shifting and memory features(for masking) that make the H31 unique. The 4805 did have functions for hiding the edges if you get funny lines at the tops of TV channel images. We found that the 4805 had more picture control options available in the user memory(more gamma settings, a color temp for 6500k among others, more user presets, picture terms, like tracking, not present on the H31, etc.). Maybe the H31 has them in the service menu, but they are easier to get to on the 4805. Navigating both menus seemed easy enough. I think that it's more convenient to have a real dvi port like on the H31, opposed to the M1 port on the 4805. Both support HDCP, and both use the DarkChip2, but have different CRs. The color wheel speed is 4X on both. Neither Dan nor Bob noticed rainbows on either of the pjs. I could occassionally see them(very quick flashes), but it wasn't bothersome like on the 6100. Both pjs conveniently had about 85 hours on the bulbs. They were both set to film mode(economy, as it were). Dan and I were both frustrated by the fact that our pjs only have one back leg that adjust up and down. This is just silly.

Once again, I'm sorry that this wasn't a very technical comparison, and we didn't do the much needed comparison of the built in scalers. That can still happen, but it will be another 2 or 3 months from now. I hope this helped.

Edit....oh, Hi Dan. I just noticed that you found this thread. I hope that I remembered your responses correctly. If not, feel free to post a correction.

Yea I noticed that last night when I push in the cord it feels like it catches and is snugg, but I always push it in another 1" or so till it connects properly. I think Optoma insets the connection deeper than say a monitor so it isn't as easy to pull out. Once you press it in all the way it's in there pretty darn good.

Guys please help: I'm about to throw my Sammy 841 out the window, onto the street, run it over, drop it in a container of gasoline, light it on fire, and send it back to it's motherland ---> Hell. I know Jedi has been playing around with some DVD players and checking things out but I would really like to know if anyone has success with an upconverting dvd player with DVI or a HDMI to DVI. I hear good and bad things about most players on the "DVD player forums" but I don't know how many of those guys use PJ's and can see every possible flaw like we can! Maybe some of you can share your setups with the group so we can all see the best potential for the H31...and I can rest in peace with returning my 841

Thanks. :D

jedi35

You are confusing black level with contrast. The dimmest projector can have the worst contrast and still have better black levels than a higher contrast brighter projector

contrast is white level over black level. Since the 4805 was brighter and they measure about the same contrast - it will have higher black levels. Throw a ND2 filter on it - it is so bright that the lamp will stay above movie brightness for it's full life. Now you get better blacks, and you do not have viewer fatigue caused by brighter projectors.

Infocus straddles between movie and TV brightness in their designs - and rates them calibrated. So with a old lamp or ND2 filter you are down to movie brightness, or with a new lamp and a small gain screen you can move up to TV brightness.

Only 750 lumens is correct - actually you were at 600 lumens in low power mode - what you are seeing is that most manufacturers rate using the brightest yet most unwatchable uncalibrated mode they can think of. Once you calibrate them they are not very bright (even your BenQ was probably not as bright even though it is rated twice as bright!). Indeed 600 lumens is plenty bright for your sweet spot 92" screen - so I don't see why manufacturers feel the need to market as close to 1000 lumens no matter what it takes!


I think it is cool you guys are willing to swap for some long term reviewing!

so kras what is the 4805 outputing lumens wise calibrated? is it really 650'ish? and from what I read here the H31 is somewhere around 450-500? if this is the case, wouldn't an untrained eye see the difference in brightness between the 4805 and H31 right off the bat? or is 100-150 lumens just not that big of a difference? just curious

This is a question to guitarman, but anyone can answer...

I want to get the Oppo DV971H, for my H31. There will only be about a 5 foot run to my projector, the way I have it set up. First, will this dvd player work with the H31?

One extremephono's site it says

(Unlike Momitsu V880N, OPDV-971H does not support DVI-I, i.e. cannot use any DVI to VGA adapter,)


Since the H31 is DVI I, and comes with an adapter...will it work? That statement above confused me....

Also how do you like this player? I want to stay at 200 bucks, and really it is between this, the Zenith, and for a few bucks more the Denon....what are your thoughts?

billymac

that is about right

lumens diffs are sensed logarithmically. So there is a small difference that can be seen in a direct comparison - enough that I would use a bright white 1.3 gain screen with H31 and a 1.1 gain grey screen with SP4805 (assuming 92" diag sweetspot). Then they will appear the same brightness because the screen returns the same ftL in that setup.

Adrian -

Nice post as always in my opinion.

I don't think there was anything that would need correcting from your post. I am sorry I couldn't stay to see the H31 on the 318. I would have very much liked to see that, because I really did like the 720p image of the Matrix on the Sammy the best of everything so it would have been interesting to see it done even better. I left with the impression there was not a greatly noticeable different in contrast between the two projectors based on what we had seen to that point, but again, a fair comparison will really have to be true apples-to-apples including the zooms, geometry, focus, calibration and inputs.

We will have to try to set something up again in a few weeks time to do a better "technical" comparison of the two projectors. We need to get the 4805 mounted back far enough to be sure both units are using the same (or lack of) zoom. EDIT = I saw that you had posted to the other thread I was mistaken on the zoom for the Optoma during our viewing session, thinking that it was not zoomed in; in that regard we just want to be sure the two PJ's are using the same zoom for certain next time out.) We need to calibrate and compare images at 480i through S-video and component definitely to test the on-board deinterlacers. We also need to do DVI comparisons on each projector. And anything else you (or other forum readers) can think of too....

I should have my DVI adapter cable within the week, but I will be tied up until after Easter. I think that we will be able to find time during my construction blackout-period. Also, I was just realizing this as I read your post, if we do want to trade projectors for a stretch we will need to do so before my construction is complete - reason being once I ceiling mount the 4805 I won't be able to use the same ceiling mount (or position due to throw distance differences) on the H31. That would be a big problem for connections since Iam pre-wiring everything to run through a conduit and end at the ceiling by the projector.

We will have to work something out and trade for a stretch to do our own in-home comparisons at a more leisurely pace. I think that those reviews (each of writing about the other's projector) after spending a week or so with them would be far more revealing than anything else done to date to compare the two projectors. Of course, if we do this then I am gonna have to devise a way to get some HDTV signals to my basement from my satellite....:p

Take care,
Dan

Yes Dan, I'd love to do a trade soner than later. I'm sure that Krasmuzik is correct with the explanation of lumens and contrast. I guess I was just trying to say that Bob and I experienced a certain effect when going from the brighter images of the 4805 back to the H31. The black levels seemed more pleasing to our eyes, and Bob and I both enjoy dark blacks. This may test out to more or less CR, but the result was that the room and screen went darker, with plenty of pop in the bright scenes. Shadow detail in the blacks stayed good. I am not a video technician, I'm just reporting what I saw. To my eyes, the ability of a pj to show very bright things and a dark black is excellent. I really enjoyed the comparison, and loved both pjs. Dan, thanks a lot!!

I would welcome another shot at comparing these 2 great pjs, as we missed svideo, and a closer look at the different internal scalers. I'm sorry that I forgot that we first viewed the 931 uncalibrated, and I also forgot all about the startup glitch on the H31. Guys, it happened a second time....I powered up the H31 for Dan, and got no image. When something finally came through, the colors were not right. The swoop above the Optoma startup logo was cyan, not red. Powering down, waiting for the cool down cycle and then some, and firing it back up again corrected everything. I wonder if this has anything to do with being connected to dvi, which was the last thing I'd viewed before Dan arrived. Who knows, I'll try to make a note of things if it should happen again. I hope it's not a problem. Anybody else get this?

I also forgot that we did move up to 720p on the 318. It looked wonderful. If you were to make a choice, choose this player over the 931.

Originally posted by krasmuzik
lumens diffs are sensed logarithmically. So there is a small difference that can be seen in a direct comparison - enough that I would use a bright white 1.3 gain screen with H31 and a 1.1 gain grey screen with SP4805 (assuming 92" diag sweetspot). Then they will appear the same brightness because the screen returns the same ftL in that setup.

krasmuzik, given the same 92" diag screen and image size, do you think the H31 could achieve the same brightess as the SP4805 if the H31 were moved closer to the screen, thereby shortening its throw distance? Thanks

Dear Jedi,

If you find the H31 not bright enough you can press "menu" and then "down" arrow button and then "Enter" to go to System menu
Second last option is "Brite" mode.
Default is off to save power and lamp life. You can choose to switch it "on" to get the full 850 lumens brightness.

If you enjoy 1080i video, you may want to try 1080i mode 2 on the Display menu especially when you are viewing widescreen materials.
This mode displays 1080i at 540p with 6% overscan - give more details and minimal scaling error

Also try the different aspect ratios on the Fullscreen mode option

Have fun

Originally posted by foxdvd
This is a question to guitarman, but anyone can answer...

I want to get the Oppo DV971H, for my H31. There will only be about a 5 foot run to my projector, the way I have it set up. First, will this dvd player work with the H31?

One extremephono's site it says

(Unlike Momitsu V880N, OPDV-971H does not support DVI-I, i.e. cannot use any DVI to VGA adapter,)


Since the H31 is DVI I, and comes with an adapter...will it work? That statement above confused me....

Also how do you like this player? I want to stay at 200 bucks, and really it is between this, the Zenith, and for a few bucks more the Denon....what are your thoughts?

Unless things changed for the oppo
It has pixel cropping,
y/c delay,
Faroudja chip has over sharpness ee
colors were hot a factory setting oddly moving the sharp control lowered color saturation but anyway even after that I couldn't get stable coloring even tuning the grayscale with colorfacts, I had to return it.

I have better luck with the Toshiba 5970,
no pixel cropping,
no y/c delay,
colors, blacks, whites are correct
Remote cueing stinks but it will you there.

Jedi,
Thx for the comparison report. Been a while since I've seen the 4805. Sounds like the H31 is a worthy contender. You preferred the black level, screen door & noise level. Pretty important stuff. :)

enjoy your new theater window ;)

yauwing,
I want to be clear. Altough I found the 4805 to be generally brighter than my H31, I didn't feel that the H31 lacked what it needed to convey brightness when it needed to. Daylight scenes looked very bright. The 4805 just looked brighter. I do not feel the need to run the H31 in bright mode, I am satisfied. The darker image of the H31 applies to darker scenes, where that's needed. I want bright images, and dark blacks as well. I really appreciate your explanationof the 2 modes for 1080i. I had no idea. I will try mode 2. I have tried the other screen AR modes, and love the 1.66 for SD viewing.

Tom,
Thanks for piping in here. It was your love of the black levels on the H31 that got me interested in this pj.

Dan brings up a good point about my room in his review. My off white walls and ceiling have to be affecting the image. I tacked up some black material up around the screen, and above it, but I still get a huge reflection off my bright ceiling. If I like the black levels on the H31 right now, in these conditions, what would happen if I had a dark ceiling? I could probably get away with installing dark curtains on the sidewall where it's missing, but as a renter, I really can't mess with the plaster ceiling. Does anyone have an idea of what I can do to get something dark on my ceiling that can be easily removed, and won't cause damage?

jedi35, you might try constructing an overhang like a shelf at the top of your screen to intercept the ceiling bound reflections and line it with black felt.

I just wanted to say that the lumen output of each projector can, as Kras has said, be compensated for with the proper screen.

So the lumen output of one vs the other sort of becomes moot - in terms of ft/L. Higher gain for lower lumen output. So the comments about one appearing brighter than the other shouldn't be a factor if proper screens are involved.

The real question is the CR after calibration and whether you can achieve D65 easily or not, grey-scale OTB, de-interlacing capabilities, etc, etc.

So it seems at this point that each projector should have its proper screen for correct comparison/analysis - if a higher gain screen for the H31 is used for the 4805 - it will throw off the 4805's abilities - unless somebody has an ND2 or ND4 filter, and vice versa.

I'm getting reflections 4 to 5' out into the ceiling. That shelf would have to be pretty big to block that. What do you think? Also, I'm an audiophile as well, and have a pair of Martin Logan Quest Electrostatic speakers to either side of the screen. These speakers limit my screen size, and need a certain amount of air space to breathe and sound their best. A big shelf over them would have an effect, I know.

Very well said, Geno.

1Time

throw distance does not perceptually impact brightness - barely impacts any measures either (given the same screen size). You use less of the lens with a longer throw so it is theoretically better on lens issues (chromatic abberation, ANSI contrast, geometric distortion).

jedi35

If someone has DaLite High Contrast CinemaVision - use the backside for the SP4805 and the front side for the H31. That should equalize brightness!

When I did my shootout - I resized the pictures to have the same brightness - then you can truly compare other image qualities - you just move closer to smaller image for same viewing angle.

Originally posted by krasmuzik
1Time

throw distance does not perceptually impact brightness - barely impacts any measures either (given the same screen size). You use less of the lens with a longer throw so it is theoretically better on lens issues (chromatic abberation, ANSI contrast, geometric distortion).

Although I'm sure there's not that much difference in brightness by moving a pj a few feet closer, it seems counter-intuitive that the throw distance would not affect perceived brightness. Projector Central's calculator here (http://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-H31-projection-calculator-pro.htm) seems to indicate the picture would be brighter when the pj is closer. So I was just wondering if you thought the the H31 would compare closer in brightness to the SP4805 if the H31 were moved closer to the screen... apparently not. Thanks

Great comparison Adrian, I must have posted right after you did and didn't see it until I checked back. I'm planning on hanging some material like a picture window curtain above the screen. My screen will be between two windows and the 92" bezel should fit in perfectly. So both sides have drapes covering the window and at the top I'll do a valance to connect it. Should look like a movie theater as long as don't have to do any sewing.... :gulp: Thanks for sharing your time and thoughts. So you feel the 318 is a better way to go? I've also have been hearing decent reviews on the Toshiba guitarman talked about and also the Panny S97. I wonder how good the HDMI to DVI connector is?

Originally posted by 1Time
Although I'm sure there's not that much difference in brightness by moving a pj a few feet closer, it seems counter-intuitive that the throw distance would not affect perceived brightness.

Throw distance does not effect brightness, when you are talking about the same size of projected image. (Other then minor differences caused by using more/less of the lens, as Kraz said.) The projector is going to put out X lumens of light, which will be spread over Y sq/ft of screen space. As long as X and Y remain constant, so will your brightness. Moving the projector forward/backward, and then adjusting zoom to achieve the same screen size results in no change for either X or Y; thus throw distance has no effect.

--Eric

1Time

Of course it gets brighter if you do not rezoom - as your image becomes smaller!

Originally posted by jedi35
I'm getting reflections 4 to 5' out into the ceiling. That shelf would have to be pretty big to block that. What do you think? Also, I'm an audiophile as well, and have a pair of Martin Logan Quest Electrostatic speakers to either side of the screen. These speakers limit my screen size, and need a certain amount of air space to breathe and sound their best. A big shelf over them would have an effect, I know.

The only other thing I can think of would be to have a couple of rods sticking out perpendicular from the top corners of your screen and then stretch black felt between them. It might be transparent enough for the sound you want and yet catch the light... couldn't say for sure.

Edit: maybe use some black nylon netting to help support the black felt.

Originally posted by krasmuzik
1Time

Of course it gets brighter if you do not rezoom - as your image becomes smaller!

Yes, I agree... of course.

Okay, so while maintaining the same projected image size, moving the H31 a few feet closer won't appreciably brighten the image and the SP4805 would still be brighter.

Originally posted by 1Time
Yes, I agree... of course.

Okay, so while maintaining the same projected image size, moving the H31 a few feet closer won't appreciably brighten the image and the SP4805 would still be brighter.

On same screen........yes.

Originally posted by therealgeno
On same screen........yes.

Thanks to everyone for helping me understand this. :)

Originally posted by yauwing
Dear Jedi,

If you find the H31 not bright enough you can press "menu" and then "down" arrow button and then "Enter" to go to System menu
Second last option is "Brite" mode.
Default is off to save power and lamp life. You can choose to switch it "on" to get the full 850 lumens brightness.

If you enjoy 1080i video, you may want to try 1080i mode 2 on the Display menu especially when you are viewing widescreen materials.
This mode displays 1080i at 540p with 6% overscan - give more details and minimal scaling error

Also try the different aspect ratios on the Fullscreen mode option

Have fun

I'm sorry Wing but I don't think new users will ever want to use bright mode, well not at least until the PJ hits 1500hrs. I don't know where people are getting the impression the H31 is dim, same deal for the H79. These are not the dim line, just the right amount of brightness is their forte. Too much brightness you lose your blacks, it's an old story now. You don't need a super high gain screen for the Optoma's. A 1.0 works great, you can add a dash with a 1.3 or 1.5 but that's the limit. I know because I have the high power screen and can view these at 2.8, it's too much brightness for these projectors. Stay cool maintain your blacks. :)

Originally posted by guitarman
The H31 use a typical computer type power cord, the H30 has the Mickey Mouse type.

That Mickey Mouse plug (as I probably posted a few hundred pages ago in the H30 thread) is also a Compaq laptop cable and is in fact available from Radio Shack.

~ Kiran <entropy@io.com>

Hi to all!
I had my H31 last week-end. All is perfect but it seems that I cannot hook it to my computer (DVI) despite it will work well with another computer.
I want to buy another videocard (pci only). Do you have any suggestion on wich one I can purchase? Do you know if the two videocard will work together?

I have an ATI X600 on pci-express.

Thanks

Robert

Orion456, you have a pm.

Tom,
I think that I somehow inadvertently caused this latest round about the H31 having a brightness issue. It was unintentional. The H31, as you stated , has just the right amount of brightness for me. It can light up my room like a cannon during bright scenes so that I can see the ceiling, side and back walls of my room(and everything on my messy floor). What I love is that when it's time to go dark, it really goes dark. I don't know, maybe my mind is playing tricks, but last night as I was watching HDNet the blacks seemed even more pronounced. My bulb will soon hit the 100 hour mark. Perhaps it's settling into its sweet spot for lumens now? In any case, Tom is right. My comments simply reflected that the Infocus 4805 really stands out for brightness over the H31. It was clear to everyone at the shootout. Only 2 of us 3 remained to see the H31 later, after the 4805 left, and got a fresh perspective on the wonderful blacks of the H31. Neither Bob nor I thought that the H31 was unsatisfyingly dim. Please get that idea out of your head. We both love blacks and have agreed that in the long run, it would be better for us to be able to enjoy the H31's brightness and darkness. It's wonderful that, with a filter, the 4805 will achieve great blacks as well.

Also, I'm confused about this power cord issue. When I got my pj I took one look at the cord, and put it back in the box. I knew that it was a standard 3 prong female to male, and I have several of them connecting my stereo system and computer equipment. I just grabbed one that was thicker, better sheiled, and had better plugs. It works fine. The one I'm using right now is made by Audioquest. Yes, Radio Shack should have this type of cord, or another electronic supply place.

Lenny,
No, I wouldn't go with the Sammy 931 over the Zenith 318. A word of caution. I have read in the 318 thread(very long) that there are issues with the 318 connected with a dvi to hdmi cable. The 318 will freeze up. It's better to just use a dvi to dvi with this dvd player, and don't connect component and dvi at the same time, as the unit could freeze as well. It throws a superior picture, and would be well worth your being careful about things. However, it sounds like Tom has come across a player that doesn't seem to have any issues at all. Might be worth a look. It's too late for me, I already bought my player.

jedi35, could you try your Voom box out at 720p with your H31 and describe the differences you see between it and 1080i please? I'm wondering what the deal is with mine, but 1080i is almost unwatchable in comparison. On the Voom installer menu where you choose which text looks clearest, the difference isn't subtle; 720p is crystal clear and 1080i is blurry. When I switch to 1080i I keep trying to focus it but it won't help, and 720p just looks perfect and I don't feel the need to keep fiddling with the focus knob.

A friend of mine stopped by today and I showed him, and he agreed completely that there was a huge difference. I didn't have this with the X1, though for whatever reason.

I hooked up my DVI cable so I'm currently viewing Voom with that instead of component.

I'm wondering if some of the people who thought that the H31 looked softer than the X1 were having the same issue I am with 1080i because mine definitely looks soft and unfocused in comparison to 720p. It's like in comparison, 1080i looks like the lens needs to be cleaned. It may be just an issue with Voom, maybe even it's just an issue with my particular projector, but I'd appreciate it if you could switch back and forth between the two and let me know what you think.

Great comparison review you did, BTW.

Thanks

Chris

Originally posted by jedi35
Tom,
I think that I somehow inadvertently caused this latest round about the H31 having a brightness issue.

jedi35

It's not your fault - sometimes it is just hard to get people to see two sides of a single equation. Just look at our gov't with budgets and taxes - usually we hear that we need taxes to meet the budget - how about budgets that match our taxes.

In a similar manner - projectors need the right screen to go with the projector they choose, rather than a projector that will be bright enough for their setup.

The object here is to obtain a minimum of 13ft/L over the life of the bulb. So take lumens*gain and divide by sqft of the screen. Rearrange equation to find the right gain to achieve the desired ft/L output. On my 4805, I attached an ND2 to cut my ft/L in half from 26 to 13 - halfway through bulb life, I pop it off for 2000 more hrs at right ft/L.

So everyone reading, just match the right screen to your H31 - and quit worrying about its brightness - worry about properly calibrating your display for proper video levels, color, and sharpness.

IMHO:
The 4805 vs the H31 is like the Toyota Camry vs the Honda Accord. No matter which one you buy, each will perform extremely well given proper tuning, calibration, care, etc. The best way to pick the right one is to test drive (ie demo them if possible) and research to see which one will work best for you, your setup, room, system, etc.

Feel secure in knowing that no matter which you buy, you are getting a huge bang for your buck:D :cool:

Thanks Geno,
I just want to add that the H31, as Tom stated, works very well with a standard I.0 gain screen. It will have plenty of brightness, and you will not think that it is dim, and you'll get great blacks. If you up the screen gain, you run the risk of losing the blacker blacks. I guess what I'm saying is that with the H31 you don't have to be so careful as to choose a high gain screen. You're fine with a I.o matte white. I'm going to love getting this thing calibrated by a tech. I'm waiting til I get past the 100 hour mark on my bulb, and til I get enough money saved up. Buying this pj stripped me....

Chris,
Sure, I'll check out Voom at 1080i. Bear in mind that I've already done a fair amount of watching Voom at 1080i on component and dvi, and the images are razor sharp. I noted this menu text as well. The others at the pj demo marvelled at the clarity of Gladiator on TNT HD. If 720p is sharper than that, it'll cut my screen!! I'll report back.

Originally posted by ChrisDuncan
... but 1080i is almost unwatchable in comparison. ... When I switch to 1080i I keep trying to focus it but it won't help, and 720p just looks perfect and I don't feel the need to keep fiddling with the focus knob.



I have similar problem and can not focus the 1080i from Dish 811 or Comcast 6208. It is so bad - I like it otherwise - that I am about to RMA the H31 which is supposed to be an upgrade from X1. I have not tried 720p yet. Tonight I will try and see it makes a difference.

USG

The 1080i signal does have a soft look to it, from stb's and upscaling dvd players. 720p is a sharper look.

Chris,
I tried the 720p switch on Voom. While I found 1080i to be quite pleasing and enjoyable, I will in fact give the edge to 720p. It does in fact appear sharper and clearer. I'm puzzled because in my case, I didn't find 1080i unwatchable, nor did the others who saw my Voom signal. It's just that 720p is a bit sharper. Thanks for making me aware of that.

1Time,
Yes, I have been thinking about putting up curtain rods at the top of my sidewalls near the screen, and running some kind of dark fabric across the ceiling to the other side, under tension. It doesn't matter if it droops a little. It might even help the sound by cutting down on celing reflections above the speakers. Then I'd run dark curtains down the side walls as well. Thanks.

jedi35

How about some screenshots? The 4805 forum has tons. I know Tom has posted some.

Anyone else?

jedi35,

Great comparison and posts! Thanks to you and Dan for sharing your opinions on this board.

The ND2 filter seems to be a popular addition to the 4805 crowd. The logic seems pretty good too (ND2 filter for the 1st 1/2 of lamp life, no filter after).

So it seems that for the next comparison the most important issues will be to compare the 4805 with DVI and ND2 filter. It would be interesting to see if after making that comparison, if you could notice any differences in the projectors.

There is another test that you may want to try out. Granted, I'm not sure if this test has any real value, as I can't seem to notice that it has any effect on the pic quality when a movie is playing, but essentially the test is to put up a blank screen (blue or white if you can) and walk up to the screen and observe the pixel lines across the whole screen. On my H30 the pixel lines are not uniform across the screen. There are patches in which the lines are fuzzy and can not be focused out where as other parts of the screen the lines are sharp and focused. On my H30 I would say about 50% of the pic surface area has fuzzy pixels randomly placed across the screen in patches.

I attribute this to low grade optics and/or poor optic alignment (it is a budget projector after all). Again, I don't know what value this test has as I have not been able to notice any focus issues in the areas that the pixels are fuzzy when a movie is playing.
But, maybe a computer desktop image might bring that out more as a movie would not tend to have the sharpness of a computer image. I don't have computer near my H30 to check that out though.

I still think it would be interesting to check that out on both projectors though, it's an easy test.

Fleaman

Tom,

I tried 720p with DVI as well as Component. Yes, 720p is better but still unfocused. It seems the focus stops at about 70%. There is definitely problem with the optics/electronics. I have to talk with the Tech support and RMA the unit. Thanks.

USG

How about focus with other sources?

Fleaman,
Thanks. I'll check with Dan to see if he wants to try a filter. And I'll check out the H31 pixels as well.

Tom,

I just went through one hour of diagnosis with an Optoma Tech support. Turn out only the DVI-I port has the problem. The Component is fine. I only watch HD or upscaled DVD, so I do not care much about other ports. I do need to RMA the unit to switch with a new one.

USG

jedi35,

With your forum user name, it's no wonder you chose Star Wars to watch during the comparison:D

I have that Trilogy disc set too, but remember standing in line to watch Star Wars 1 the 1st week it was released. I was 10 years old at the time, probably the perfect age to watch it! I use to have a Star Wars t-shirt too, when it wasn't too nerdy to wear.

The theater I stood in line at was in Century City (Los Angeles) and I think I saw footage of the lines at that theater used in one of the documentaries on Star Wars/Lucas.

That was a long time ago.......

....in a Galaxy far, far, away.....

:D

Fleaman

Oh, yeah?

I remember standing in line to see the first Buck Rogers silent science fiction film! :D :D

Well, that's not true. I was about 10 when the first Star Trek series aired on television.

And who can forget Lost In Space? Remember Dr. Zachary Smith?

Wayne

I expect to receive my new H31 by Friday. Thanks to everyone who posted in this thread. You've really helped me with my decision to make this purchase, especially guitarman and jedi35. :)

Originally posted by usg
Tom,

I just went through one hour of diagnosis with an Optoma Tech support. Turn out only the DVI-I port has the problem. The Component is fine. I only watch HD or upscaled DVD, so I do not care much about other ports. I do need to RMA the unit to switch with a new one.

USG

The comcast box is soft out of DVI for me. Component is much better and what I was using. It's just Kras stated his comcast DVI was soft so I took a look this morning. He's right analog is better. Did you try a DVI dvd player or are you just using cable for DVI? Seems odd DVI input would be soft.

Well got my H31. Not more than 30min into tweaking the settings when I get a "Over temp" warning and the projector shutdown

wtf? :confused:

Originally posted by 1Time
I expect to receive my new H31 by Friday. Thanks to everyone who posted in this thread. You've really helped me with my decision to make this purchase, especially guitarman and jedi35. :)

Price must be good a ton of people are getting them now. Let us know what you think? This morning I re-set the grayscale using a different technique and got 2100.1. I've run a few CR reading and always get over 2000.1 tuned to 65k. Great machine.

Originally posted by trilobyte
Well got my H31. Not more than 30min into tweaking the settings when I get a "Over temp" warning and the projector shutdown

wtf? :confused:

Yikes!

And it's not even Summer time yet:eek:

You should call Optoma in the morning, 'cos that shouldn't happen.

Fleaman

Originally posted by jedi35
Chris,
I tried the 720p switch on Voom. While I found 1080i to be quite pleasing and enjoyable, I will in fact give the edge to 720p. It does in fact appear sharper and clearer. I'm puzzled because in my case, I didn't find 1080i unwatchable, nor did the others who saw my Voom signal. It's just that 720p is a bit sharper. Thanks for making me aware of that.

.

I probably shouldn't have said it was unwatchable, but I did feel the need to keep trying to focus it. Part of it, too, is that I'm using a very large screen (over 9' wide) so that may make a difference.

Thanks for checking it out.

Originally posted by fleaman
Yikes!

And it's not even Summer time yet:eek:

You should call Optoma in the morning, 'cos that shouldn't happen.

Fleaman

Well I just ran in it again for an hour and a half and no warning again. Though it does get hot (very very warm to the touch). Tomorrow I think I'll watch some movies and see how it goes from there.

I've only been playing with it for a couple of hours, checking out my movies and games.

I have to say F-Zero GX looks might damn fine. And the final Neo/Smith fight at the end of Revolutions looks great! Even on a white wall.

When I get my extra cable for the PC, I'll take some shots :D

Manage to accidently zap my eyes though. Glare caught my glasses which reflected beams :/ So my eyes are a little sore.


here's a n00b question: How come in movies, when I set to 16:9 mode...the movies seem slighty squished vertically (faces seem wider). If I go to 4:3 mode, everything seems fine....but the menu gets out of proportion.

Originally posted by trilobyte

here's a n00b question: How come in movies, when I set to 16:9 mode...the movies seem slighty squished vertically (faces seem wider). If I go to 4:3 mode, everything seems fine....but the menu gets out of proportion.

Make sure your dvd player display properties/mode is set to 16:9. If you're dvd player is set to 4:3 display, your H31 will be distorted with a widescreen movie.

Fleaman

Originally posted by trilobyte
Well I just ran in it again for an hour and a half and no warning again. Though it does get hot (very very warm to the touch). Tomorrow I think I'll watch some movies and see how it goes from there.



It's normal for the Optoma H30/H31's to get hot. With my H30 ceiling mounted the bottom base of the H30 (ceiling side) gets very, very hot. So hot that I can't really keep my hand on it w/o burning myself! Especially the lamp cover...ouch!

Apparently the Infocus 4805 runs a lot cooler, at the expense of a slightly louder fan.

Fleaman

Even with the louder fan, the 4805 still runs pretty hot, IMO.

QUESTION: will a bulb last longer if it is cooler? If so would adding a fan help with bulb life?

Originally posted by orion456
QUESTION: will a bulb last longer if it is cooler? If so would adding a fan help with bulb life?

I have no idea... but I will be using a 120mm case fan @ 5volts to help cool my H31.

orion456

I too am not sure, but I am willing to venture a guess:

It seems logical to me to compare the bulb fan and bulb operating temperature to a car - there is probably an optimal operating temperature for max performance without overheating, much like your car.

Too cool an operating temperature might harm performance - too hot, and your bulb explodes.

I guess the engineers design the cooling features for max bulb life at max performance.

Just a GUESS - I could be totally wrong. It would be funny though if you could just add a fan, maybe a little A/C - and get 3x the bulb life!!!:p :D

Originally posted by therealgeno
It would be funny though if you could just add a fan, maybe a little A/C - and get 3x the bulb life!!!:p :D

To be bright, a bulb has to be hot so I'm guessing that the most wear for a bulb is the slow boiling off of metal from the filament. If that's the case then cooling the bulb from the outside with a fan would mainly keep the housing cool (so it won't explode?) and wouldn't change the operating temperature of the filament much. If so, then adding more cooling wouldn't affect bulb life much.

I suppose the engineers design the system as a trade off between cooling and sound. It's interesting that the projectors only cool the bulb for a short time after you stop them. Does fast cooling lead to cracks? Is hot really better than cool when it comes to bulbs operating environment?

Unlike alot of you guys I still have an untrained eye on alot of things, I'm seeing things more and more each time I watch movie samples. It's been almost 3 weeks without audio and it is nice to concentrate soley on the video setup. Unfortunatley I'm still waiting for my screen so I don't want to go too crazy with tweeking.

I have a few questions for the veterans:

I temporarily have my H31 on a tripod about 36" from the floor and I've been running down the angle of the H31 to get the image lower. I'm using a keystone of -11 or so...pretty drastic. Last night I leveled off the pj and brought the keystone to 0. The picture was about 8" from the ceiling but I noticed the PQ was a little better? does this make sense? Can keystone degrade PQ is it just the way i'm looking at it?

Secondly, when I mount my H31 perm to the ceiling is there an advantage of throw distance? Meaning if I keep the H31 as far from the screen to fill up the 92" area the "zoom" lense will be set at "full" zoom. (thus zooming would go beyond the borders of the screen.) Or set the zoom to "0" zoom or no zoom and put the pj as close to the screen as I could go to fill up the border? Thus zooming would make the picture smaller. Or center, which is obvious if there is no advantages from the above statments.

I did notice a sharper picture on 720p while watching Nemo and others films on DVD DVI. I wish I had an HD source, are the OTA receivers worth the money? I have Directv but I'm not ready to upgrade as of yet, I'll wait till summer or football season, I always get the NFL pass.

I used the THX calibration optimizer and I had to drop down my contrast quite a bit to see the 8 white shades. Is this due to the sammy 841? Magenta and Cyan were right on the money, and surprisingly my reds are really good I don't see the orange as some people do. Blacks on the 841 are aweful so I don't even want to go there. All in all I'm learnig more everyday and I'm really enjoying this pj, I add 7.1 sound this weekend and hopefully I'll have my sceen next week.

Lenny

Originally posted by 1Time
I have no idea... but I will be using a 120mm case fan @ 5volts to help cool my H31.

To be more specific, most will not want to use an additional fan in this way. The 120mm fan will be at one end of a duct and the other end of the duct will be at the intake fan of the H31. The duct will be about 2 meters long with the 120mm fan located near the floor and my HTPC. The idea is to channel cooler air to the intake fan of the H31. I want to do this since my H31 will be mounted at about 7 feet high at the top of a shelving unit that also houses my H/K AVR630 receiver and HTPC; both heat air and send it toward the H31.

I don't suggest anyone's H31 would need an additional cooling fan, and I really have no idea if my use of a 120mm fan and duct will help the bulb of my H31 to last longer.

Originally posted by orion456
I suppose the engineers design the system as a trade off between cooling and sound. It's interesting that the projectors only cool the bulb for a short time after you stop them. Does fast cooling lead to cracks? Is hot really better than cool when it comes to bulbs operating environment?

I do know that Bob Williams, the SP engineer, said that slow cooling of the bulb is better for it rather then forced convection.

So many of us 4805 owners, after the fan goes quiet, hard power off. And many simply hard power off when they are done watching it for the night.

Lenny112

Yes, keystoning degrades image quality by lowering your resolution - a click or two is ok, but don't go over that. The key is no keystoning so avoid it at all costs.

You want to mount the pj as far back with the smallest zoom to fill your screen. This will give you the sharpest image.

What you are doing with a calibration disc is matching the voltages to the player for proper IRE. So on your player, make sure all the gimmicky marketing crapola is turned off - ie enhanced, movie, bright, etc. You want "normal" or default.

Especially with black level - don't use bright mode or anything like that - see if there is a 0 IRE or 7.5 IRE setting - set it to 0 IRE.

For color/tint, you will need a blue filter. I really suggest you get DVE (or Avia - I'm partial to DVE) - then you can really calibrate proper video levels and proper color.

The H31 really sounds great - I'm glad you all are enjoying it. Rocks have a theater in your home, doesn't it?

My H31 is working wonderfully and I'm very happy with it.

However, I output from a HTPC over DVI and get a randomly occuring horizontal line that travels down the screen.

I posted a thread about it here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=520858

What would cause this and how do I make it go away?

Originally posted by rbastedo
My H31 is working wonderfully and I'm very happy with it.

However, I output from a HTPC over DVI and get a randomly occuring horizontal line that travels down the screen.

I posted a thread about it here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=520858

What would cause this and how do I make it go away?

My guess is you may be getting interferrence. Try putting your H31 on a line seperate from your other electronics.

Why does the manual say the DVI/HDMI adapter is included, yet it's not? Mine didn't come with one. I asked Lenny, and his didn't come with one either.

Originally posted by retroeric
Why does the manual say the DVI/HDMI adapter is included, yet it's not? Mine didn't come with one. I asked Lenny, and his didn't come with one either.

If it get some time tomorrow I'm going to call Optoma customer service and find out. :D If I can convince them to give me one I'll post all info here.

Originally posted by retroeric
Why does the manual say the DVI/HDMI adapter is included, yet it's not? Mine didn't come with one. I asked Lenny, and his didn't come with one either.

If it get some time tomorrow I'm going to call Optoma customer service and find out. :D If I can convince them to give me one I'll post all info here.

I'd like to take some screenshots for the people on the fence but I don't know how to set up my camera...anyone have any camera settings for a Cannon A40 digital camera?

Originally posted by jedi35
Thanks Geno,
I just want to add that the H31, as Tom stated, works very well with a standard 1.0 gain screen. It will have plenty of brightness, and you will not think that it is dim, and you'll get great blacks. If you up the screen gain, you run the risk of losing the blacker blacks. I guess what I'm saying is that with the H31 you don't have to be so careful as to choose a high gain screen. You're fine with a 1.0 matte white.

Of course I could be wrong, but I do think that you will want a higher gain screen if you plan on using the entire bulb.

EDIT: I DO NOT MEAN HIGH GAIN AS IN 2.0 OR ABOVE (NO SILVERSTARS) UNLESS YOU HAVE A 130" SCREEN. FOR THE AVERAGE SCREEN (SAY 76" TO 92"), THE GAIN RANGE SHOULD BE BETWEEN 1.1 AND 1.3. SEE FORMULA BELOW TO CALCULATE PROPER GAIN FOR YOUR PARTICULAR SETUP.

I don't think we ever receieved an "official" calibrated lumen output of the H31. Tom posted some numbers, and I calculated the lumen output to be 450 lumens. But there was some confusion in the numbers - so it could be a bit higher.

Assuming it is 450 lumens on a 92" 1.0 gain screen, your ft/L = 18; good for the first half of bulb life, but a little too dim for the 13ft/L screening room standards. Even at 550 lumens, you are 22ft/L, so halfway through you will be under 13ft/L.

But if you add some gain, then you will be above 13 ft/L for the entire life of the bulb. So assuming I am in the middle @ 500 lumens, then a 1.3 gain screen achieves 26ft/L, halfway @ 13ft/L - you are perfect for the entire bulb life.

***BTW, ft/L = (lumens*gain)/sqft of screen. The idea is to stay above 13ft/L for the life of the bulb.***

This is the reason why so many of us in the 4805 forum have added the filter. I have 26ft/L (600*1.1/25). Add an ND2, and I am at perfect screening room standards. Halfway (2000hrs) pop off filter, I stay at screening room standards for the entire life of the bulb.

This is not a bashing of the H31 - you guys have proven it is an excellent pj. I wish I could see a demo. Maybe the WAF will let me get one for the bedroom - hehe. I just think it is vital to get the right screen for your setup - and I think some gain is in order for large screen to preserve your PQ for the life of the bulb.:D

And I really have nothing better to do @ 2am then type stuff:p

EDIT: I WRONGLY POSTED THAT SCREENING ROOM STANDARD IS 13FT/L - IT ACTUALLY 12FT/L. THANKS KRAS!

1Time,
Hey, I'm glad that my comments helped move you towards your H31 purchase. Enjoy!! I really love mine.

Fleaman,
Yes, you're right. One of the main reasons that I got into all this HT stuff is so I could enjoy Star Wars at home. I was 15 when the first film hit theaters, and I saw it about 25 times that summer(1977). In fact, Star Wars gave me my career. You see, I fell in love with the John Williams soundtracks, and wanted to play them in a real symphony one day. Well, I got my wish. I play violin in a professional orchestra, and have recorded Vader's March on cd.

trilobyte,
I too have experienced a few quirks with my H31. I'm not to the point to where I'm worried yet, but I'm keeping tabs on how many times it happens, and the conditions surrounding the event. So far, the bulb has failed to turn on twice. When it finally did, I got weird colors. Powering down, waiting, and starting again fixed things. Also, just today I got a bulb warning light just as I powered up, and the pj shut itself off. I waited awhile, and then things worked fine. If I get to the point to where there is a specific problem that happens all the time, Optoma will be hearing from me. It's still quite dry now, and I remember my Benq 6100 doing some strange things with color when I switched the cables going into it. Perhaps the unit is suffering from a slight static shock every now and then. Yes, the pj is quite warm to the touch. I also think that the 4805 runs much cooler.

Lenny,
Yes, I do think that OTA tuners are worth it, especially if you have digital locals in your city, and all of them are not being carried by cable or satellite(if you get either of those services). My Sammy OTA tuner gets a slightly better picture than the digital tuners in my other stb's. I also had to drop the contrast a lot on my Sammy 931 to get the 8 boxes in the THX tests. I know what you mean. However, contrast only needed to be -1 on my Zenith 318, with brightness going down to -12. I don't know if things have improved or what, but my reds seem better. I have found that I'm seeing varying shades of red. I have seen deep reds in the same shot with an orangy red...this leads me to believe that the pj is only trying to show me the difference. I'm not too worried about that now. 7.1 sound is cool. I'm enjoying that in addition to the H31 experience.

Geno,
My friend Dan with the 4805 told me about Bob William's suggestion to do a hard shutoff of the 4805. Do you know if this slow cooling is good for all bulbs, or just the one in the 4805?

Someone asked about screenshots, and I'd rather leave that to people like Tom who know how to do it right. Besides, I don't have a digital camera.

I am now convinced that my blacks are indeed deepening even more. Just to see how good things can get, I'm going to work on suspending black fabric along the ceiling above the screen, and dark curtains for both side walls.

I also want to get the pj mounted above my head, but can't mess with the plaster ceiling in my rental house. I'll probably enlist the help of a handyman in building some sort of support board or beam that will go over my head from one side wall to the other, and suspend the pj from it. I would love any ideas on the best way to do this, if you will...

Lenny and retroeric,
Optoma has stated that the manual is incorrect. The hdmi to dvi adapters are not provided, and the manual will be corrected. Sorry.

Geno,
Thanks for you thoughts. In fact, your arguments are the first that I've heard that might make me consider a high gain screen for the H31. What about my enjoying my nice image now, and getting a high gain halfway through the bulb life, avoiding a filter altogether? And hey, you see that I'm up late on the board as well...

Time to do some watching.

therealgeno

Actually the spec is 12ftL - but OK to give a little margin if one can so it does not get too dim because the numbers were wrong!

jedi35

A 92" screen just needs a 1.3 gain to keep its movie brightness - no need to go high gain unless you want to go big - the bright white moderate gain screens work fine and most of them are considered ISF reference. Yes instead of doing the filter - you could always postpone the screen upgrade until you think it is too dim! Problem is a good screen cost as much or more than a lamp upgrade - a lens filter cost about 1/10th a screen upgrade! So often best to get the best screen combo from the beginning for long term enjoyment (unless you know you will upgrade the projector before the lamp runs out!)

If you like the blacks - if you have the proper screen combo - the ND2 filter cuts the blacks by 50% - giving a great film-like image.

Originally posted by krasmuzik
therealgeno

Actually the spec is 12ftL - but OK to give a little margin if one can so it does not get too dim because the numbers were wrong!


Sorry guys;) Got to remember - 12, 12, 12 ,12...........

And if anyone would care to post some screenshots (ok, I'll shutup and go away...):p

These two Optoma's the H30 and H31 are too bright to use high gain screens. I'm at about 700hrs on the H30 and it still looked plenty bright on a 1.0 gain white screen. The H31 is brighter still, I've never used either PJ in bright mode also.

I'd suggest a 1.0 or 1.3 mabye even a 1.5 could work. Each one would have incremental effects on the black level but not too drastic as blacks are strong to start with. If after 1500hrs pass and you like the added brightness of bright mode, there you go, just use that till bulb life ends.

Originally posted by jedi35
In fact, Star Wars gave me my career. You see, I fell in love with the John Williams soundtracks, and wanted to play them in a real symphony one day. Well, I got my wish. I play violin in a professional orchestra, and have recorded Vader's March on cd.
Alas, I think you took the wrong message from Star Wars. A career in music?! You were supposed to become clinically obsessed with light sabers and collectible action figurines, to the detriment of any potential job you could ever get, or any relationship you could ever possibly enter. All your disposable income was supposed to go towards the purchase of said figurines, and all your spare time towards their love, nurture and maintenance. I think I must notify Lucas, something went dreadfully wrong with the Plan!

Originally posted by guitarman
These two Optoma's the H30 and H31 are too bright to use high gain screens. I'm at about 700hrs on the H30 and it still looked plenty bright on a 1.0 gain white screen. The H31 is brighter still, I've never used either PJ in bright mode also.

I'd suggest a 1.0 or 1.3 mabye even a 1.5 could work. Each one would have incremental effects on the black level but not too drastic as blacks are strong to start with. If after 1500hrs pass and you like the added brightness of bright mode, there you go, just use that till bulb life ends.

guitarman, what is your throw distance? Also, would your opinion change on a high gain screen if there was ambient light?

Tom,

I'll just add to retroeric's post and query you about the H31 being used with a wall/ceiling mounted High Power screen.

I imagine that in this case, a High Power screen would be alright to use since the full 2.8 gain is probably only about 1.8 or perhaps a little less.

I have this screen and would utilize the H31 mounted around 6.5' up the wall. I expect the blacks to be still quite good in this scenario.

Do you concur?

Wayne

Kras,
My screen is a bit smaller than the size most of you are using. It's 80" wide, and gives a diagonal of 84". Like Tom said, it seems that I might be ok without going high gain, don't you think? The pj sits back about 11' on a stand in front of my counh for now. I am looking into suspending the pj above my head for safer leg room. If I were to upgrade the screen later, it would be worth it, since I bought my current screen 2 pjs ago when I had 2000 lumens. I wonder what the efect would be if I tried a filter right now, since I get good brightness already, then take it off halfway through the bulb life.

uwrada,
Well, actually I am obsessed with lightsabers and all things Star Wars. I have several lightsaber replicas, some of them with working light up plasma blades and EL blades. My house abounds with Star Wars posters, figurines, books, comics, magazines, etc. In fact, I have a room in my basement that is full of boxes of SW collectibles that I don't have room to display. I'd need a house just to show everything properly. Lucas' plan did work on me. I go to work to fund my hobbies...

I think you'll ok using high power with a ceiling mount to cut the brightness down. Point I wanted to get across was no silverstars or 2.8 high power. You really have allot of screen options. Unless you use a non-tensioned pull down model. Then you should go with HP or mat white because when video hits them they don't wave out to bad.

guitarman

I hope I did not give the wrong impression that a HIGH gain screen was in order (2.0 and higher).

I apologize if I did - I was trying to help by recommending 1.1 to more likely 1.3 gain screens when 92" or larger.

I posted the formula so members can calculate themselves how much gain they will need for their particular room and setup.

I will re-read my earlier posts and add any edits if there is any ambiguity over my wording.

Thanks Tom,

I guess I'm fortunate because I have the High Power and High Contrast Matte White (gray) screens at 92" 16:9 AR, and a 100" plain matte white in 4:3 AR. The High Contrast screen has a tension bar which causes waves but may be a good match for the H31. I've read that this type of screen is great for the 4805. Perhaps a High Contrast screen is a better solution than a ND2 filter if you already own the screen.

Wayne

Has any one ceiling mounted the H31 yet? I was hoping to customize my current ceiling mount to accomodate the the H31, but the Optoma mount holes are weird. Takes one M3 in the center and has three pinholes at the tips of a triangle surrounding the center hole.

Could someone please post a picture of the bottom of the projector plate (pj side of the mount) that fits the H31. I'd greatly appreciate it. I am hell-bent on getting this thing up this weekend, no matter what.

Please help.

guitarman

high gain screens are in order for the daytime gigantic TV setup because it needs to be 3x brighter than movies. I run the SP4805 on a 60" SilverStar - but it is not a movie screen - it is a plasma simulator!

One should base their screen decisions using a ND2 filter - even if you plan to use high power lamp. Once you find out if the fan and heat will be any issues, two you find out if your chosen screen is too dim to your liking even in high power. You can get ultra cheap off brand ND2 at your camera stores. Get the screen samples - mount on black poster board and flip thru them.

The only reason not to do the ND2 test is if you plan to upgrade lamps or projectors more frequently than the lamp life itself.

Of course the H31 with a new lamp (700hrs is still new) is still too bright. That is our point - design your setup for the used 50% lamp - cut it with ND2 if brightness is annoying.

But doing the lumen calculations are the best way to go about this - it tells you what screens not to get samples for. One of the SP4805 thread contributors has a 123" SilverStar - which is just about right for long term movie brightness.

Originally posted by mystery
Thanks Tom,

I guess I'm fortunate because I have the High Power and High Contrast Matte White (gray) screens at 92" 16:9 AR, and a 100" plain matte white in 4:3 AR. The High Contrast screen has a tension bar which causes waves but may be a good match for the H31. I've read that this type of screen is great for the 4805. Perhaps a High Contrast screen is a better solution than a ND2 filter if you already own the screen.

Wayne

For coloring and blacks it should look great but HCMW is one for showing some waves. Has something to do with the way it reflects. A video spectra I had did the same thing. You're better off using your high power screen. Unless you can tension the gray screen.

You in a good postion to try them all out, do a shootout review. :)

I just may do a comparison of these three screens someday. I've yet to order the H31. Still waiting to unload my X1.

However, with 800 hours on the X1 and not using any filters in a light controlled room, I've found that the High Power screen shows the best image.

Second best is the Matte White. As a matter of fact, the blacks are slightly better on the Matte White but the punch and vibrancy is better on the High Power so you pick what you like best and use that.

I have also found that if you have off-white/white walls and/or ceiling, the High Contrast (gray) screen really gives the perception of deep blacks and great contrast. Once you darken your walls, you lose that and after painting I had to switch from the High Contrast to the Matte White. Then I discovered the the High Power was even better overall so I've stuck with that.

But I watch 4:3 material on my Matte White screen and I love it. I think that the High Power would be weird with older 4:3 stuff like 60's TV shows for instance of which I own a slew of. I mean, I think we can all remember the dimmer 20" CRT sets we all used back then to watch Mission Impossible and Get Smart. :)

Putting those shows on a bright screen just doesn't seem right to me somehow.

Wayne

We tend to Shun Mat White because it's the cheapest material. But it is the one that is neutral and can help colors be neutral also. Since I use a non-tensioned electric I'm a fan of Mat White and High Power. People using fixed screen have some options.

I have a ton of 4.3 DVD also, that's why I bought another HT1000.

That's interesting Tom.

You bought another HT1000 and not 1100?

Also, perhaps those of us who own a significant amount of 4:3 material ought to seriously consider having two projectors. One for 4:3 and one for 16:9 because let's face it, is there really a projector that can do either one well with or without spending a load of cash?

Now you're going to tell us that the Ht1000 is just such a machine right? :D

Just bought Columbo Season 2 and Hogan's Heroes Season 1 this week. Yup, there's still a huge place for 4:3 in projector land as far as I'm concerned. :)

But 16:9 is great too. ;)

Wayne

Originally posted by krasmuzik


high gain screens are in order for the daytime gigantic TV setup because it needs to be 3x brighter than movies. I run the SP4805 on a 60" SilverStar - but it is not a movie screen - it is a plasma simulator!



Nothing like a 6.0 gain to light up the room. :D

Man I've just gone nuts trying to get this thing to work on my PC

got the 2nd DVI on my 6800 w/ a VGA adapter going to my DVI input in my H31 w/ its own VGA adapter. Booting up the system, everything gets displayed through the project just fine....the minute I enter the log-in screen though, nothing -- the projector can't detect my PC as a source :( Done everything in the drivers to get it to work...but nothing