Optoma H31 review & screenshots [Text View] - Page 6

HiHoStevo

03-19-05, 02:22 AM

Wayne.............

Don't know if I will be able to make it this year or not.. It depends on when Rob has the shootout and what my schedule is for that month... I bid every month for what days and trips I want to work the next month... so I only know my schedule about 5 weeks in advance.

The 8700 is doing just wonderful........ watched a fine evening of the SciFi channel tonight (sure wish they would get SciFi in HD that would be wonderful)... and spent a little while with Mercenaries on the Xbox... nothing like blowing stuff up on a 10' screen eh!

It would be nice if Optoma published a little easier way of figuring their offset... Benq's was easy to set up, but trigonometry makes my head hurt! We have a second place now, so I was thinking about getting an H31 for the other setup... the throw is such that the 4805 will not work with the screen that is already mounted to the wall.

I am a little worried as I have read Tom and PJC both mention that the lines between the mirrors are more visible on the H31 than they were on the H30... when I previewed an H30 you could walk right up to the screen before you saw any screen door........ The room is only 15'10" wall to wall, so the seating (arraigned in a V) is between 12.5' and 14.5' from a 96"x54" screen.

Wayne you mentioned Tom's offset numbers... do you know which page he posted them on? Also, I checked the PJC website but I do not find any offset numbers there? Where are they?

............................................
Kras..... I think you mentioned you did not normally deal in Optoma.., but if you know if my numbers are accurate please chime in!

mystery

03-19-05, 06:56 AM

Originally posted by guitarman
Ridiculous, that's a yard plus a foot and a half. It's more like a 12" offset in my setup. 14' back 92"wide 106diag screen. Pj lens is down 6" from the ceiling, screen surface is down near 20" from the ceiling.

I've never heard of a 50" offset on any projector. :)

Steve,

I found this from Tom on page 48 of this thread. This was a direct response to the previous post made by me querying him about Projector Central's offset calculations.

Also, on one of the pages in that vicinity, I just re-read a post by Krasmuzik whereby he stated that the X1's offset is 33%, the 4805's is 27% and he seemed to remember Tom stating that the H31's offset is less than the 4805. I have the X1 still and if the H31's offset is less than that, well, I'll be laughing when I go to set up the H31.

I can understand why you'd be worried about the H31's SDE. Remember, you're coming from an HD2 chip perspective with your BenQ 8700 and you're probably used to HD resolution now on everything you watch so going to WVGA may appear to your eyes as a potential problem. I imagine that at the proper seating distance this will be a non-issue. You may even be amazed at how little this machine costs in comparison to what you laid out for the BenQ when you compare images from both.

Hopefully the big guns can offer some specific guidance here on this offset issue though.

Wayne

trilobyte

03-19-05, 09:11 AM

Alright, I'm going to post a write-up of the h31 from a projector-newbie's point of view later today with some screens if anyone cares :D

mystery

03-19-05, 09:15 AM

t-byte,

Yes, do that. Let us know the dimensions and aspect ratio of your screens and also your offset measurements, how far away you are projector from screen and how high up your pj and screen are.

Did I forget anything? :D

Wayne

LENNY 2112

03-19-05, 01:51 PM

T-byte: Please let us know what you think!!!

Fox: Gee thanks man, now I really want HD programming!! I may just pick up an OTA receiver and then get Directv HD later on.

trilobyte

03-19-05, 01:57 PM

The only thing though is I have nothing to test HD :(

My GC games sure do pop though :D

foxdvd

03-19-05, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by LENNY 2112
T-byte: Please let us know what you think!!!

Fox: Gee thanks man, now I really want HD programming!! I may just pick up an OTA receiver and then get Directv HD later on.

Do you have Directv? Do they offer a lease program for HD tuners like Dishnetwork does? Dish will let you lease a HD receiver for like 5 bucks a month. Of course, they limit it to two at a time, and I already lease two PVR's.... So I bought a used receiver on ebay for 150 bucks. I think all Directv and Dish HD receivers also act as OVA tuners...

foxdvd

03-19-05, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by jedi35
foxdvd,
Did you go straight for the dvi connection for HD, or did you try component first? I worked my way up from component to dvi. Dvi on the H31 is killer.

No I went right to DVI for the HDTV. I have no way to check dvd over DVI, but I can say that trying out the HDTV with component cables..... DVI showed a small jump in sharpness and it seems to nail the colors without any tweaks needed. I would guess with calibration the component side could get close to this, but since I am no expert, the DVI is a big jump in this area. More natural, but at the same time more pop.

Makes me want a good dvd player with a DVI out.

I will say I thought 1080i looked better then 780p. 780 was soft, more like what I was used to with DVD (soft is not a good word....it was sharp, just that the 1080i was sharper)...1080i really made me freak out.

fleaman

03-19-05, 06:33 PM

Originally posted by jedi35
Fleaman,
Yes, you're right. One of the main reasons that I got into all this HT stuff is so I could enjoy Star Wars at home. I was 15 when the first film hit theaters, and I saw it about 25 times that summer(1977). In fact, Star Wars gave me my career. You see, I fell in love with the John Williams soundtracks, and wanted to play them in a real symphony one day. Well, I got my wish. I play violin in a professional orchestra, and have recorded Vader's March on cd.
.

Cool story!

How about this: I wouldn't exist today if it weren’t for James Bond!

Really!

My father was a pro-photographer in London and hung out with Twiggy and the like, he had a friend named George Lazenby, as you might know, he played 007 in 'On Her Majesty’s Secret Service'. Dad went to some 'Bond' parties with George and my good old Dad tried picking up one of the Asian Bond chicks, and struck out. But she introduced him to her friend who ended up becoming my Mother!

Yup, if it wasn't for Bond, I wouldn't exist.

Even stranger: During the '70's I loved the Bond films and my Father and I always went to the theaters the 1st week they were released. I couldn't wait! My father never told me the connection Bond had to my existence, not until I asked how he met my Mother...which was when I was about 27 years old.

There's a pic of my Dad on my wall and he's wearing a leather jacket that George Lazenby gave him.

Fleaman

HiHoStevo

03-19-05, 08:10 PM

Thanks Wayne........ yes I have been hoping some of the "big guns" that know this offset stuff cold would jump in... However, if Tom's is 106" diagonal versus my 110" and his is 20" down from the ceiling then my 28" sounds like a little to much, of course I was also 2" farther back... perhaps I should run my numbers for 14' and see how they match up with Tom's...

As far as the look.... I watched an H30 over at a friend's house right after watching the same DVD on another acquaintance's's Dwin TV3... I was amazed then at how small the differences were for a projector that costs 8 times as much... Then I have heard that the SD is more apparent on the H31 than the H30 and as my seating is a little closer than optimal that is the basis of my concern.

When you look at the whole package though I think the H31 is a wonderful step up from the H30.

cpc

03-19-05, 11:35 PM

I saw this projector today at Najeeb's setup at the Home and Garden show running until tomorrow at the Toronto International Centre. The picture of the H31 looked really good. I am rainbow sensitive, but the more I look at these, the more I'm curious if I'd get used to them. I also saw a BenQ 5120 and that also looked really nice. 840 x 484 DLP's of this sort look pretty good.

trilobyte

03-20-05, 12:21 AM

This isn’t going to be very technical since I know very little about projectors. This is more from the perspective of someone whos very first projector is a H31.

After work I came home to see my nice new Optoma H31 box sitting on my bed :) I quickly grabbed a knife and sliced that box open. It was great to see the projector all nicely settled in the included bag. Cables were all there, though IMO I would have liked to see a DVI cable of some sort.

Before the projector arrived, I did my homework and coupled with a little trig of my own, I figured out a good spot to place the projector in my room. About 11 feet away, I can throw an image about 5-6 feet above the floor at a 80ish diagonal. Not bad for my small bedroom ;)

I don’t have a screen yet, I’m waiting on moving out before I purchase one. So this sucker is hitting my off-white wall.

First impressions: Seems a little short-sided to me--why did Optoma put an adjustable tilt-leg on only one of the back legs? The back-left leg is the only one adjustable, but what I really needed was the other leg to be adjustable too. The back-right leg was too low, causing the image to be crooked. I solved it by sticking a folded index card under it, but IMO that was pretty lame.

I popped in a DVD using S-Video and started playing around with some of the settings. The image seems somewhat fuzzy, but I attribute that to my wall more-so than the projector. However after playing around with the color/contrast/brightness settings, everything started to pop more. It’s nice to have the ability to set the brightness/contrast levels for the individual RGB. I was able to replicate the color scheme of my monitor when playing Doom 3 so that was very nice.

On the topic of the PC side of things, I couldn’t get the projector to play nicely with my video card. At first, I had the DVI parts hooked up to my Geforce 6800 with both having VGA converters. However, on log-in, the projector refused to pick up the signal. I eventually just switched my main monitor to the DVI output on my video card with one VGA converter, and the projector to the VGA output on my video card with a converter on its end. This solved the problem, and I was able to dual-view just nicely.

I was kind of dismissed to see there was no calibration utility in the menu options. I figured an item like this would have some sort of utility to help you manually adjust the color schemes. Though I never really trust those things anyway, so I don’t know if I would have use it if it was there :P

It’s kind of nice that the projector remembers color settings for the individual video sources (dvd, analog, etc). I’m used to TVs with one setting for everything. So now I can have different settings for my dvds, games, and pc.

Speaking of games, boy does this projector really shine in that realm. The H31 seems to really love to eat up colors, so when you play a game like F-Zero GX….you’ll be washed in a lot of eye-popping richness.

The color saturation isn’t as bad as I thought it would be. Reading some of the comments, I thought maybe the H31 would over-saturate. But really, with the right settings, you can have full rich colors that don’t bleed. One thing to note is that it seems the H31 eats up reds and oranges for breakfast but has some trouble with blues. Blues and greens don’t seem to stand out as much as red/oranges.

I’m having a hard time getting the blacks dead black and the whites pure white. It’s more likely due to the image being projected on the wall rather than the projector’s problem though. But it’s been a constant struggle getting my blacks and whites perfect.

The unit did shut off on me after 30 min with a temp warning light…however it hasn’t done it since and has been running like a champ so far. It gets pretty warm though, enough to that it's on the verge of burning your hand on touch around the lamp area. Also, anyone know how to keep the power light from blinking when the unit is off? I get annoyed by those types of things….blinking while I’m trying to sleep >:(

Overall I’d have to say the unit is pretty darn nice, though it is my first projector -- so I have no room for comparison. Be warned though, IMO the throw angle is a bit large (almost 17 degrees) so it has to be pretty low to the ground to match my distances…about coffee table low (~2 feet). This projector may be better suited for a ceiling mount. The Optoma H31 loves colors. If you play a lot of games or are a big anime fan, this projector really shines. Regular movies are pretty nice too ;)

Screens:
standing about 10 feet away (projector is 11 feet away from wall). Minimal zoom, should be throwing a 80'' diagonal

Anime
http://www.voidyourwarranty.net/images/trilobyte/shots/gits0.jpg
http://www.voidyourwarranty.net/images/trilobyte/shots/gits1.jpg
http://www.voidyourwarranty.net/images/trilobyte/shots/gits2.jpg
http://www.voidyourwarranty.net/images/trilobyte/shots/gits3.jpg
http://www.voidyourwarranty.net/images/trilobyte/shots/cb1.jpg
http://www.voidyourwarranty.net/images/trilobyte/shots/cb2.jpg
http://www.voidyourwarranty.net/images/trilobyte/shots/cb3.jpg

Return of the King (some spoilers fyi)
http://www.voidyourwarranty.net/images/trilobyte/shots/rotk0.jpg
http://www.voidyourwarranty.net/images/trilobyte/shots/rotk1.jpg
http://www.voidyourwarranty.net/images/trilobyte/shots/rotk3.jpg
http://www.voidyourwarranty.net/images/trilobyte/shots/rotk4.jpg
http://www.voidyourwarranty.net/images/trilobyte/shots/rotk5.jpg

F-ZeroGX
http://www.voidyourwarranty.net/images/trilobyte/shots/fzero.jpg

Resident Evil 4
http://www.voidyourwarranty.net/images/trilobyte/shots/re4.jpg

mystery

03-20-05, 08:20 AM

t-byte,

Thanks for this! Nice screen shots too.

Have you tried to pixel map with your HTPC? What resolutions have you attempted?

Also, would you please measure your exact distance from the center of your lens to the bottom of your image? If you were to shoot a laser beam straight to the wall from your lens center and them measure up from that point on the wall where the laser beam has rested, to where your image on the wall starts, what then would the distance be between those two points?

Wayne

trilobyte

03-20-05, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by mystery
Have you tried to pixel map with your HTPC? What resolutions have you attempted?

If you were to shoot a laser beam straight to the wall from your lens center and them measure up from that point on the wall where the laser beam has rested, to where your image on the wall starts, what then would the distance be between those two points?

Wayne

Not sure what pixel map and HTPC is :P

From good old fashion trig you can figure where the middle of the image is in relation to the middle of the lens....that's just 11tan17 ( [ distance from wall ]tan17 ). That makes the middle of the image 3.4ft above the middle of the lens. Divide that in half and you get 1.7ft above the lens until the image starts (what you asked about). I just doubled-checked with a tape measure and got 1.66ft...so fairly close to my calcs.

That number can change depending on the projector distance from the wall though.

mystery

03-20-05, 11:59 AM

Thanks.

An HTPC is just a computer which is used in place of a set top box DVD player.

Pixel mapping is the process of displaying images at the native resolution of the display device without distorting the pixels by scaling to other non-native configurations. 1:1 pixel mapping involves this with the added benefit of no cropped pixels. I can pixel map to my X1 without any scaling but the projector then takes those pixels and crops them from 800 x 600 native to 800 x 450 if I'm viewing a 16:9 image. Hence, this image is pixel mapped yet not 1:1.

What happens t-byte when you enlarge the image on your wall from 80" diagonal to a larger picture? Does the distance between the bottom of the image and the lens center shrink from 1.66' to closer to a foot for instance?

Wayne

trilobyte

03-20-05, 12:51 PM

Well I've only experimented with the PC rez a little. The sweet spot for the projector is 848x480 @ 16:9 and 800x600 @ 4:3. Anything higher and things start to get distorted.

When I enlarge the image using the manual enlarge wheel on the unit, the bottom of the image actually rises a couple of inches from its original position....so it gets a couple of inches higher in relation to the lens. The image seems to rise up and expand.

mystery

03-20-05, 02:17 PM

Okay, that makes sense now.

My ceiling mounted X1's image expands down toward the floor when enlarging the image. It's doing the same thing as your table mounted H31 only my pj is upside down and suspended from the ceiling using an inversion process so that the image appears right side up.

Wayne

LENNY 2112

03-20-05, 07:49 PM

H31 Owners.

In the H31 manual (pg 20) User controls "Picture" has the following listings: Mode, Contrast, Brightness, Color, Tint, Sharpness, Gamma, Reset. On my actual H31 Menu I have all but Tint and Sharpness... I wonder why those two options are gone? Is it because I have DVI connected only? Can anyone check other inputs and see if those options appear.

Also has anyone tried the vga / dvi adapter in comparison with just a DVI connection? I have two DVI / vga adapters and maybe I can get a 15' vga cable for 1/2 the $$$ of a 15' DVI.

Thanks,
Lenny

LENNY 2112

03-20-05, 07:54 PM

jedi35

03-20-05, 09:07 PM

Hi Lenny,
Yes, there are fewer controls for the dvi digital input. So if that's all you have hooked up, there's your answer. I have briefly tried the vga to dvi adapter, and did notice that I could control color this way. I'll have to do more testing to give an opinion about whether or not it's better than component. I'm hoping that red push might be eliminated through dvi-a.

HiHoStevo,
I must agree with you. I think that the H31 is a super pj and can't really see a huge difference between it and the big 12 or 13K pjs. As Dan and I noted in our comparisons with the 4805, the 720p native pjs do have the advantage of showing less SDE at closer distances. But if you sit back far enough, this is not an issue. I still wonder if you must sit closer, is it really worth spending thousands more? Maybe, if you have money to burn. I'm not there yet.

Fleaman,
Hey, it was great to read your story as well. Did you think of this.....if your dad had hooked up with the Asian Bond girl, and married her, you would have turned out quite differently(assuming that you're not part Asian right now).

guitarman

03-20-05, 09:20 PM

It's correct DVI has less picture control features, it's like that with most dispalys. VGA to DVI will be and analog feed, it's just like another component connection. HDMI or DVI to DVI will be the digital signal, no cheating. :)

jedi35

03-20-05, 09:25 PM

sorry...double post.

MAK

03-21-05, 10:31 AM

I finally have the pj up on the ceiling and running. First impressions: OTB settings were almost bang on when I calibrated with Avia. The picture is much smoother (film-like) with no grain whatsoever when compared to my last pj (LCD, XGA). It is as sharp as I wanted it to be, no more no less. Reds are a little orangy, only noticeable because I was looking for them thanks to spending way too much time on AVS.

I am throwing a 96" wide (110" diagonal) image onto my DIY, Misty Evening paint on the wall screen, which I estimate to be unity gain or less. The image is just the right brightness, brighter than my previous pj. I do not feel the need to go to High-Bright setting even with this big a screen. I'd probably go with a highpower screen later on to, perhaps, increase punchiness of the image. with a ceiling mounted pj it should yield about 1.5 gain and about 15 to 18 F/L; right now I am probably getting no more than 11 to 12 F/L. This is based on the reported at-the-screen brightness of 400 lumens for this pj.

I am sitting 15 feet from the screen (1.87X) and cannot see any screen door, but lean forward even a foot and a half and it becomes visible. I think at this distance I will go with a 92" wide screen (106" diagonal).

Now for the offset. It is higher than I was hoping for. The top of my screen starts at 12" from the 8' high ceiling, and the pj lens is about 6" from the ceiling. With this setup I have to use significant key stone adjustment; I believe its at 4. I think you have to have the lens about a foot or so higher (or lower if floor mounted) than the top (bottom if floor mounted) edge of the screen. Though I do not notice any PQ degradation because of keystone correction.

Source: Progressive from Panny RP56
Cable: Component to VGA, 30 foot
Connection: Supplied VGA to DVI adaptor
Calibration: Using Avia
DVD: The Fifth Element (non-superbit)

Next Steps:
1. Da-Lite Highpower, 106" fixed.
2. Upscaling DVD player with DVI.
3. Theta Gen VIII. OOps!!! thats for my two channel stuff.

Cheers
Mak

jedi35

03-21-05, 12:30 PM

MAK,
Thanks for your thoughts. What do you think of your black levels and contrast? What upconverting dvd player are you looking to get? What was you previous lcd pj? Are you going to check out HD?

fleaman

03-21-05, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by jedi35

Fleaman,
Hey, it was great to read your story as well. Did you think of this.....if your dad had hooked up with the Asian Bond girl, and married her, you would have turned out quite differently(assuming that you're not part Asian right now).

I am 1/2 Asian (her friend was Asian too). So 1/2 English 1/2 Asian...I looked very much like Sean Lennon when I was a kid, but not so much now (although once in a while a person will think so). We are all almost the same age as the Lennon family.

Oh, and yes, I'm a huge Beatle fan! And I play music and engineer in studios.

Yes, many Ironies in my life.

Fleaman

Jefftaz

03-21-05, 02:07 PM

So what is the opinon here in the H31 thread:
DVI or Component for the DVD connection?
I would have to run 40 ft to get a PJ connected to my HDMI Panasonic 97s player. I could connect with either DVI-HDMI or Component.

Thanks.

MAK

03-21-05, 02:10 PM

Jedi, I can't imagine how I completely forgot about the contrast. In comparison with the NEC VT540, this thing looks so much richer, punchier, with greater depth to the image. My last pj looked somewhat washed out in comparison. And surprisingly, even with its XGA resolution, the screendoor was somewhat more visible on the NEC.

I currently have no HD feed coming in, nor do I plan to get into HD. I keep my movie watching strictly seperate from TV watching. My dedicated HT in the basement is just for movies.

I have been thinking about the Denon upconverting players, maybe the 3910, but the macroblocking issue is preventine me from taking the plunge. May be I should simply keep the focus on video and ignore audio performance. Even then the Panny S97 also has macroblocking. Would this issue be a problem for me on the H31?

Thanks

MAK

03-21-05, 02:20 PM

Jefftaz, from what I remember reading this thread, DVI connection is the way to go if you have a DVI/HDMI output on your DVD player. I am using component as my current DVD player does not output digital video.

Jefftaz

03-21-05, 02:21 PM

MAK,

With the latest firmware version (540) there is little to no macroblocking on the Panasonic 97s. The firmware update is free over on the 97s thread in the DVD forum. Just save it to a computer, burn it to a DVD-R and put it in the player. I love this player, it will last me until the high def players hit the market and come down to a reasonable price.

Now if I can only get confirmation that a 40 ft DVI-HDMI cable will work with the H31 I will be set!

Jeff

LENNY 2112

03-21-05, 02:24 PM

Jefftaz: To get the full potential out of the S97 and H31 go with the HDMI/DVI connection. This way you can send any upconverted signal to the H31 (DVI is the only Input that accepts Upconverted signals.) I just purchased the S97 friday so hopefully I can have it hooked up tomorrow or Wed.

Mak: I'll post a review by Wed on the S97 through HDMI/DVI connection.

Jedi: Thanks for clearing that up!!

MAK

03-21-05, 02:27 PM

Sorry, forgot about the black levels again. I have not done significant testing with dark movie scenes, but the shadow detail on this unit looks much better as well. I will post some more impressions on this when I test with Master and Commander.

MAK

03-21-05, 02:33 PM

Jefftaz, if this is the case then I will be getting the Panny by end of this month. Of course this would require an additional expense for the HDMI cable. I'd actually recommend that you purchase a HDMI to HDMI cable and then use an HDMI to DVI adaptor to connect to the H31. Problems have been reported using the HDMI to DVI cable. I am not sure which thread talks about this, but I am certain it was here on AVS.

Lenny, I look forward to your review of the panny. Where will you post it? Here or in the Panny thread?

Jefftaz

03-21-05, 03:04 PM

Also what is a good ceiling mount for the H31 that is reasonably priced?

MAK

03-21-05, 03:24 PM

Perfectmounts.com. I got my VT540 mount from them about 2 years ago. I am using the same mount for the H31 now. I just had to drill three new holes in the plate and bought 3 M3 bolts ($1.75); it works beautifully. They have a sale on as well; 1000 series mounts for $79 and 2000 (preferred) for $99. They have the H31 mount in stock.

mystery

03-21-05, 04:16 PM

Mak,

Further to my pm to you today, if you're interested I could bring over my LG7832/Zenith DB318 upconverting player for you to try on the H31.

Let me know.

Wayne

uwradu

03-21-05, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by LENNY 2112
DVI is the only Input that accepts Upconverted signals.
Huh, did I miss something in this thread? Or do you mean the opposite, that the DVD player will only send up-converted video over the DVI connection? I don't remember reading anything about this limitation on the H31.

MAK

03-21-05, 04:33 PM

That would be great Wayne. Please check your PM, I just replied to your message.

fleaman

03-21-05, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by Jefftaz
Also what is a good ceiling mount for the H31 that is reasonably priced?

Check out this Mount (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=516642) for about $90 total.

I have one and can't imagine anything better for the price.

Fleaman

Jefftaz

03-21-05, 06:14 PM

When ceiling mounting a projector is it important to line the projector up with the center of the screen? Or is there some flexibility allowing you to mount it on a stud even if it is off center?

mystery

03-21-05, 06:35 PM

If you don't align the middle of the lens with the middle of the screen then you'll end up having to put up with shifting your image a bit in order to stay within the screen's border. This will probably result in some distortion of the image whereby the side of the screen furthest away from the lens will look larger than the other side of the screen which is closer to the lens. As far as I know, keystoning will not correct this as it's usually a function of repairing vertical distortion caused by the lens being positioned too high or too low.

Those who are fortunate enough to have lens shift, especially both vertical and horizontal can afford to be off a bit as in your question's scenario. Your other option is to move your screen in order to accommodate putting your projector mount on a stud.

I have invented a little contraption that helps along this line. It's just a simple 8 foot piece of wood doweling 1 1/4 inches in diameter. I've attached this doweling to my recroom ceiling and then connected the screen underneath the doweling. When I need to shift the screen right or left, all I have to do is move the doweling in whichever direction I need. The doweling is being hung by metal strapping looped around the wood so that it's freely able to move laterally from side to side for several inches.

Works like a charm!

Wayne

LENNY 2112

03-21-05, 08:24 PM

Originally posted by uwradu
Huh, did I miss something in this thread? Or do you mean the opposite, that the DVD player will only send up-converted video over the DVI connection? I don't remember reading anything about this limitation on the H31.

My Bad...I was thinking of my current 841 via DVI. Sorry for the confusion.

Mak: I'll post it here since some of the biggest questions alot of us have are on the UC-DVD players. I tracked the package and it looks like I will have it in my hands tomorrow night. I'll post something early wed, any movies I should put to the test or just the typicals. I will also calibrate with DVE and post all my settings.

MAK

03-21-05, 08:32 PM

H31 is an extremely light projector. You do not need to mount the ceiling mount to the ceiling joist. I am using drywall plugs with four 1.5", #8 screws with great effect; though my ceiling board is 5/8".

Regarding centering the pj to the screen, I agree with Mystery. Mount it as close to the center as possible. In my experience 3 to 4 inches either way works fine.

MAK

03-21-05, 08:36 PM

Sounds good, Lenny. I'd recommend movies you have watched several times so you can easily detect the difference in PQ. It works in audio so should work for video.

fleaman

03-21-05, 09:21 PM

Originally posted by MAK
H31 is an extremely light projector. You do not need to mount the ceiling mount to the ceiling joist. I am using drywall plugs with four 1.5", #8 screws with great effect; though my ceiling board is 5/8".

Don't forget to add the weight of the mount. My mount is 6lbs and with the projector added to it, it's a bit hefty, hefty enough that I wouldn't want it falling on my head!

Fleaman

orion456

03-21-05, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by MAK
H31 is an extremely light projector. You do not need to mount the ceiling mount to the ceiling joist. I am using drywall plugs with four 1.5", #8 screws with great effect; though my ceiling board is 5/8".

I would really go with butterfly plugs that flare out an inch or so on either side of the hole to spread the weight around. I'm not sure an ordinary drywall plug could be trusted. I know they work fine on verticle surfaces but straight down is a bit different.

mystery

03-21-05, 10:29 PM

Mak,

This is great to hear how light the H31 is.

Fleaman,

It's sort of scary when your mount exceeds the weight of your pj isn't it. :)

I'm actually thinking of getting your mount due to it's ability to get as close as 2 1/2 inches to the ceiling.

Yes, these butterfly plugs or toggle bolts are amazing. Although I'm currently hanging my X1 (soon to be 'ex' X1) from the wall using drywall plugs, I'm hanging two 92" diagonal screens from my recroom ceiling using toggle bolts. Huge toggle bolts! They work on a spring mechanism and when shoved through and above the mounting surface, they spread out and grip the area around the drilled hole providing a very stable way of hanging everything from potted plants to dust blob filled projectors. :D

Wayne

orion456

03-21-05, 10:35 PM

The H31 has a fan setting called "high altitude". It seems to increase the fan speed, presumably to overcome thinner air. I wonder if it would help bulb life to have the fan set on high and thus provide more cooling...at the expense of noise of course. Do you think cooler bulb surface would translate into longer bulb life? Any tests ever done on bulb life versus external temperature?

fleaman

03-21-05, 11:42 PM

Originally posted by mystery
Mak,

This is great to hear how light the H31 is.

Fleaman,

It's sort of scary when your mount exceeds the weight of your pj isn't it. :)

I'm actually thinking of getting your mount due to it's ability to get as close as 2 1/2 inches to the ceiling.

Wayne

When you include the slotted adjustable mounting arms that bolt to the projector base, it's actually about 4" total.

Just so you know!

Fleaman

mystery

03-22-05, 06:58 AM

Fleaman,

Thank you! I'm glad you pointed that out. I was seriously considering this mount because I thought the drop could be shortened to a true 2.5". Now, other than the quick release option, and it's build quality, I feel that I'll have to re-consider since it's distance from ceiling to pj is no different than the rest.

Wayne

svadas

03-22-05, 02:00 PM

A few questions please.

Can I get a screen image to have the top ithing 3 inches of the ceiling with a 92inch screen and the projector ceiling mounted at 12.5 feet away? I have "room issues."

How is this unit with cheaper DVD players, like the Sony 775 or Pioneer 563?

Thanks

rbastedo

03-22-05, 02:24 PM

I mentioned this in my thread but thought it would be good to add it here.
Optoma tech called me this morning & told me I should be using a DVI-I Single cable not the DVI-I Dual cable that I have. He indicated that he thought the Horizontal line I'm getting is a result of the cable.

I don't get any lines at all when watching HDTV over Component.
(BTW - it plays over the H31 beautifully, HDTV is everything I've heard it to be and more)

billymac

03-22-05, 03:48 PM

anybody have any luck getting true 1:1 pixel mapping with an htpc yet?

guitarman

03-22-05, 04:18 PM

I use a DVI-I single link ok with the H31.

Svadas, the Optoma will have a excellent sharp image pretty much artifact free from a low end player with S-video or Components.

MAK

03-22-05, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by fleaman
Don't forget to add the weight of the mount. My mount is 6lbs and with the projector added to it, it's a bit hefty, hefty enough that I wouldn't want it falling on my head!

Fleaman

Fleaman,

My mount is less than 3lbs, so all in all the whole thing is fairly light. I am also using those EZ plugs with great big threads, which you hammer in a little and then screw in the rest. Four of these can take a lot of weight, especially when screwed into a 5/8" ceiling board.

fleaman

03-22-05, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by MAK
Fleaman,

My mount is less than 3lbs, so all in all the whole thing is fairly light. I am also using those EZ plugs with great big threads, which you hammer in a little and then screw in the rest. Four of these can take a lot of weight, especially when screwed into a 5/8" ceiling board.

Yeah, the PDR mount I have is a bit too heavy duty for the little H30 I have. It can probably hold 75lbs!

Well, at least I can keep the same mount when upgrading projectors in the future.

Imagine that, something I don't have to upgrade:eek:

Fleaman

SIMJEDI

03-22-05, 05:30 PM

Originally posted by fleaman
Imagine that, something I don't have to upgrade:eek:

C'mon now, let's be real. :D

peace

mobius

03-22-05, 06:32 PM

Originally posted by LENNY 2112
I wish I would be able to attend your PJ shootout, If I could find someone in the Charlotte area I would love to do the same. I am concentrating alot of my time looking for speakers and a receiver. I'm almost certain on going with Klipsch and the Denon 7.1 2805. What are all you guys using for speakers?

Lenny,

There are lots of good choices out there in speaker land. The important thing to do is to be systematic- develop a process for determining which speakers you want to buy.

The first thing you should take into consideration is the center channel's performance. It's where ~70% of all your HT sound will come from. I won't derail the thread any further, so if you have questions just PM me.

billymac

03-23-05, 12:07 AM

hey question for the X1 owners to H31 converts out there

how much did your setup change offset wise and screen position wise with the H31 coming from the X1? specifically those who had the X1 ceiling mounted?

i currently have the screen ceiling mounted with hooks and the drop to actual screen material including blackout is about 12" or so. i'm worried i'd have to drop it even farther. can you guys comment? i'm obviously trying to avoid using any keystone correction and my ceilings aren't all that high.

/edit, i just doulbe-checked and it's about 9" to screen from ceiling...

i guess what i'm really looking for is how do i figure out how far down my screen is going to have to hang from ceiling at 12' back and the pj lens center about 7" from ceiling?

digitalmonkeyman

03-23-05, 12:08 AM

I just spent 3 days reading every post in this thread!
I purchased my H31 BEFORE I even found this thread! A few questions have come up…

1. After much messing around in the settings, I never wrote down the presets. Does anyone have those written down? (I think foxdvd does)
2. I just purchased the Pioneer DV-578A, but I am going to return it to get a dvd with a DVI out. I see many recommendations, Denon, Panasonic, Zenith. Can anyone recommend one in the 200 price range? I know each one has it’s strengths and weaknesses, but my eyes hurt from all this reading, and you could go crazy reading all the reviews at hometheaterhifi! Can someone please recommend one! (maybe guitarman)?
3. I go nuts with DVE!! I tweak and tweak and tweak, and then I just think maybe I was better off when I started. Maybe I should just set it to what looks good to my eyes. Anyone agree?
4. Is there a Calibration Tutorial on how to use DVE out there? Way more information than I really need on that disc!
5. Reference information:
• Optoma H31
• Pioneer DV578-A (going to replace)?
• Component Out
• Pioneer VSX-D814 receiver
• Ceiling mount from pdrmounts.com
• Klipsch Speakers
• All Monster THX cables, most 16 ft. (yes, I read the thread about Monster)
• 94” wide 16:9 Screen Goo Digital Grey Lite “screen”
• Mounted 6’ off floor, 15’ from screen
• Need a keystone of 9……..working on a fix

therealgeno

03-23-05, 12:31 AM

Originally posted by digitalmonkeyman
3. I go nuts with DVE!! I tweak and tweak and tweak, and then I just think maybe I was better off when I started. Maybe I should just set it to what looks good to my eyes. Anyone agree?
4. Is there a Calibration Tutorial on how to use DVE out there? Way more information than I really need on that disc!

3. I do not agree with setting things according to your eyes - there are test patterns for a reason. But some disagree. IMHO, I want to see the movie as it was intended to look (ie as it is encoded) - and DVE will do that for me.

4. Search the 4805 thread on using DVE Title 12 (the display test patterns) - you will use the color bars, reverse grey ramp (and the chapter just before it), and sharpness test patterns. We have discussed this for the past month or two ad nauseum. I think it will be helpful to you!

fleaman

03-23-05, 12:56 AM

Originally posted by digitalmonkeyman
I just spent 3 days reading every post in this thread!
I purchased my H31 BEFORE I even found this thread! A few questions have come up…

1. After much messing around in the settings, I never wrote down the presets. Does anyone have those written down? (I think foxdvd does)

You can do a 'Reset' on the settings in each or all menus. This should put you back to factory presets. Of course, don't forget to write down the numbers you have now, just in case you prefer them to the factory presets.

Fleaman

LENNY 2112

03-23-05, 09:10 AM

Ok this maybe a two part post, I have a couple of minutes before work starts.

Last night I got the Panny S97, and I now have a calibrated H31 after 2.5 hours with DVE. So lets start.

I only have the Sammy 841 to "Compare" to so if I mention compare the S97 it is with the ill dreaded 841. Well I should not bash the $100 player too much it does have some nice features that I will miss, but hey that is just a remote. I think what Samsung does is somehow make the colors more dynamic and punchy OTB due to the fact I can never get good black or white levels out of it. Pre-test movie: Nemo. So when I hooked up the Panny I noticed the colors where nice but not as overly saturated and flashy as the Sammy. I wasn't worried because let me say the first thing that hit me was how sharp and clear the picture was...I saw more depth and detail then ever before on the H31. During most nights of watching DVD's with the 841 I found myself adjusting the focus 3-4 times a night. Well I'll tell you I won't be doing that anymore. A scene that struck me the most was in the very beginning of Nemo when the eggs were nestled in the dark cave and Nemo's parents where looking over them. The 841 always portrayed a blacked out cave, but with the Panny I saw all the details of inside the cave and the orange reflections on the bumpy cave surface. What REALLY struck me the most was the Audio differences in these to players. The 841 was good, I was happy with it but when I plugged the S97 up via Optical into my Pioneer....WOW. Huge difference, it really added dynamic clarity and alot of punch I was more that hoping for from my setup. Ah yes my setup is the following:

Reciever: Pioneer 1014 (mostly set at PLIIx 7.1)
Center: Klipsch SC-2
Front Towers: Klipsch SF-3
Surrounds: Klipsch SS-1
Sub: Klipsch SW-12

System has suprisingly awesome voice matching.

Well until my room is fully complete I will skip the DVE Audion Calibration till another day, so let's move on to video calibration. DVE is very helpful disk for understanding everything you need to know about calibrating and why you are doing it. I higly reccommend it for anyone intrested in Home Theaters and think it is a great tool. I was able to obtain a much better contrast than with the 841, I went back and forth between contrast adjustment and brightness and settled with the best combinationn I could find. Then moved onto colors and I pulled out my RBG film color chart. Started with blues adjusted, dead on. Reds adjusted- dead on. Green was fussy, I spent most of my time trying to deal with the green and had to come to a settling point, but greens look sweet especially scenes with fresh cut grass.

Here are my following settings:
Red Contrast: 2
Green Contrast: 8
Blue Contrast: 12
Red Brightness: 3
Green Brightness: 15
Blue Brightness: 3

Brightness: -12
Contrast: 10
Gamma: 1

Conclusion: The S97 is out of league compared to the 841 and may be the closest picture to HD that I've seen. This player had some OTB calibration like screen setting to 16:9 and audio setting. But Panny makes it easy with a quick set up that just asks you questions and you answer them...easier then fighting through menu's. I'll miss my jog wheel on the remote and the one button upconversion selection. On the Panny you must go through a menu to select 480p, 720p, and 1080i but the Sammy had a button select. Picture Quality far surpasses that of any DVD I've seen, no more fuzzy or is there a film on my lens question. Well I gotta go to work so if anyone has any question I'll check thru the day

Lenny.

MAK

03-23-05, 09:40 AM

Thanks Lenny; I guess I am going with the Panny then.

I will also try to calibrate again with DVE. Avia calibration still left me with some pinkish tinge to some images, and on dark, misty scenes a noticeable blue hue.

But man, the shadow detail on this unit is simply awesome. Just check out the Schelob's layer clip in LOTR 3 (Big spider chasing Frodo).

LENNY 2112

03-23-05, 10:12 AM

Watching DVD's is so much different now, It is really amazing the quality of the H31, and the Panny really brings that out. I know flesh tones are sometimes almost impossible to get a handle on but I think this combo is the best I've seen yet. I'll actually have to get used to the fact that not everyone in a movie has a sunburn. heheheee. I had no problems running an HDMI to DVI connector just so everyone knows. I bought one (monster) with the Panny, it is a male HDMI to Female DVI. I really wish the HDMI had screw clamps like the DVI has. Another scene I like is Spiderman 1, the last fight against the green goblin, very dark and very detailed.

MAK

03-23-05, 11:25 AM

So you are using an HDMI to HDMI cable with HDMI to DVI adaptor; am I correct?

Which cable are you using and how long is it? I need to run about 30 feet of cable and I have heard HDMI cables are much more expensive than DVI, especially at this length.

MAK

03-23-05, 11:28 AM

Oh! and which resolution are you using? Is 720P or 1080i any better than 480P?

Jefftaz

03-23-05, 11:36 AM

Lenny,

I also would like to know how long of a HDMI cable you are running to the DVD player. I have the Panasonic 97s and will be connecting it to the H31 as soon as the HDMI-HDMI cable and HDMI-DVI converter get to my house (next week) sometime. I bought mine from PCcables.com based on recommendations here in the forum. It was very reasonably priced. I got mine in the 45 foot length. I will do a review on the cable when I get it...

Jeff

LENNY 2112

03-23-05, 11:44 AM

I plug the Adapter directly into the player and I'm using a 6 foot DVI cable to connect to the H31. So I have S97>Male HDMI/Female DVI connector>DVI cable> H31. I will need a 18' when I ceiling mount my H31 so I have the same questions on quality on longer cables too. I watched mostly in 1080i, to me it was the best with my eye. The 841 looked sharper with 720p then 1080i, on the panny I cant really tell too much difference. I'll stick with 1080i

MAK

03-23-05, 01:09 PM

This might be obvious, but we want the DVI-D cable, right? My understanding is that the optoma has a dvi-I input which can accept both DVI-I and DVI-D connectors. But most DVD players with digitial video have DVI-D outputs, wich do not accept DVI-I connectors. Am I on the right track here?

LENNY 2112

03-23-05, 01:29 PM

Good question.

billymac

03-23-05, 01:34 PM

questions still

1. anybody successful mapping 1:1 via htpc with H31?

2. da-lite high contrast matt white (1.1) OR regular matt white (1.0) could save a few bucks if you don't think the 1.1 is really going to get me anything

3. no issues running hdtv through the vga port is there? do i have as much configuration capability, or do i need to convert to coponent at the pj side?

HiHoStevo

03-23-05, 02:17 PM

Lenny,

I am surprised to hear you are running the Panny at 1080i and feel that gives you the best picture.

As the H31 chip is native to 480p, so running 480p to the projector "should" give you the best looking artifact free picture........ at least that is the theory! Buy sending the H31 a 1080i image you are forcing the projector to scale the image and de-interlace back to it's native 480p...... hum......

Perhaps the scaler/de-interlacer in the H31 is superior to the one in the Panasonic S97........??? I dunno, just seems strange to me............

guitarman

03-23-05, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by MAK
This might be obvious, but we want the DVI-D cable, right? My understanding is that the optoma has a dvi-I input which can accept both DVI-I and DVI-D connectors. But most DVD players with digitial video have DVI-D outputs, wich do not accept DVI-I connectors. Am I on the right track here?

Yes, I use this cable connector it has all eight rows of three pins and no four analog pins.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/dvi-d.jpg

LENNY 2112

03-23-05, 03:31 PM

Yea Stevo I will play with it more, I know for a fact that the 1080i from the Sammy looked better than the 480p, the 720p looked pretty sharp too...more than the 480p. I will play more next week with the Panny, I'm leaving for Easter weekend and I'll be back early next week. Maybe the signal from the output is stronger on 1080i, I don't know and I'm definetly just an average Joe that can see that one looks better than another. Theory on this stuff is above my head, I understand it, but that's about it. And I can only report what I see and hear.

Does the Contrast set at 10 seem to be to high? I just want to know if I should try bumping up my brightness and pulling down the contrast to get to where I am now. Thoughts? Has anyone else used DVE on the H31?

HiHoStevo

03-23-05, 03:37 PM

Lenny,

I am not an expert by an stretch of the imagination.... just going off what I have read mostly hear at AVS.

But then I have been reading that many folks with the BenQ 8700+ that I have find running 480i to it is better looking than 480p. I tried this on my setup where I have a panasonic CP75 run by component to the projector. When I switch the progressive on and off, on my setup the progressive from the dvd player results in a "much" sharper image than the interlaced. I do not know if it is because the CP75 is using the Faroudja chip and that is better than the one built into the projector... or not.... but to my eyes it was no contest at all.

All this was fairly moot anyway as I find I now watch DVD's through my HTPC that ouputs at 720p and I find that MUCH MUCH better than the dvd player on component, no matter what setting I am using on the Panasonic.

LENNY 2112

03-23-05, 03:40 PM

What video card do you have? I have a new PC with an ATI 9600 DVI out..wonder how that would do for a test?

fleaman

03-23-05, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by LENNY 2112
Does the Contrast set at 10 seem to be to high? I just want to know if I should try bumping up my brightness and pulling down the contrast to get to where I am now. Thoughts? Has anyone else used DVE on the H31?

Lenny,

Your calibration #'s seem to be quite a bit off the factory default OTB settings (which should all be 0's on the advance rgb adjustments). I have a H30 and my OTB calibrations were crap, I ended up with more severe rgb settings than yours, but still, I thought the H31's were coming OTB pretty good according to the H31 OTB calibration poll I started (did you vote in it and what was your vote?).

Unless the H31's rgb adjustments are less sensitive than the H30's (for the same numerical value), it seems like the difference between your calibrated #'s and the OTB calibration was fairly drastic? No?

Fleaman

fleaman

03-23-05, 04:45 PM

jedi35

03-23-05, 05:01 PM

Hello all,
After trying 720p and 1080i through component and dvi from the Sammy 931 and the Zenith 318, I find myself puzzled as well at the fact that 480p doesn't look the best on the H31. The higher resolution settings just look better, more solid and filmlike. The theory of it doesn't make sense, I know. I just know what my eyes tell me, and the visitors who've seen my setup also agree.

I may have made a mistake, but I did an impulse buy of that $35 mount that you can get on ebay. I bought it before reading about it here. I hope I don't have too much trouble working with the ball socket, and I will try and stick with not using the extensions. If it doesn't work out, I haven't lost too much money.

MAK,
The H31 will take either dvi-d or dvi-i. If you have no plans to run analog signals to the pj over the dvi connection, then you can stick with the dvi-d. If you buy a dvi-i, you will have the possibility of connectiong 2 types of signals over the dvi conector, anaolg and digital. This may solve some switching issues for some people. I currently own a 5 meter dvi cable, and it works great. I bought a dual link, thinking that having more pins would result in a better picture, but have found out that the single link would work fine. A digital signal should look the same over both dvi cable types.

billy,
I have a 1.0 gain matte white screen, and the image looks great. I'm told that halfway through my bulblife, my image will look too dark. Right now, the well lit scenes look almost too bright, and I would welcome a "taming" of this light level. If I need to, I'll go high power on a new screen later. Also, ther is no vga port on the H31. The pj comes with a vga to dvi adapter, and you'll be able to watch HD through this. All controls for color and such are available through this adapter, just like component.

Lenny,
I was testing my 318 last night, and noticed that there are issues with strange white dots at the top of the widescreen image. These don't seem to go away when switching resolutions. I have fixed it with the edge masking feature of the H31, but it would be bad for someone who didn't have this feature. Also, there is considerable pixel cropping on the right side of the screen, so the image doesn't reach fully from one side of the screen to the other. This was not a problem on the 931. I may consider another upconverting player down the road. I am using the latest firmware that fixes white crush, and did not notice these problems with the earlier firmware that allows upconversion over component. Have you heard of the new player at neodigits.com? It's called the NeuNeo HD dvd player, and boasts to be the first one to upconvert to 1080p!! It has hdmi, component, and vga. Sounds interesting...

Fleaman,
I think Leny is using hdmi with a dvi converter setup.

HiHoStevo

03-23-05, 05:43 PM

Lenny,

My HTPC uses an ATI 9800Pro video card.

yauwing

03-23-05, 06:38 PM

Dear Jedi,

To eliminate those strange white dots - there are two other alternatives in additional to the edge mask method you mentioned.

1. use 1.85:1 fullscreen mode, this is equivalent to a 2% overscan

By the way, edge mask mode masks off 1% of the image on each edge.

2. use digital lens shift, H31 has two digital lens shift memories, you can use one memories to eliminate those white dots. The advantage of digital lens shift is, you just get rid of the portion you don't want to see.
Edge mask and 1.85:1 mode cuts some pixels on the other side of the image that may be useful.

So if problem only occur near the top edge or bottom edge, digital lens shift is recommended.

Regards.

RobRoy

03-23-05, 06:57 PM

Jedi the reason you get the white lines/dots is because you are switching resolutions while connected to the H31. That's the cause. You need to get the res you want set on the 318 then power the 318 down. When you power the 318 back up without changing resolution the white lines will not be there.

mystery

03-23-05, 07:27 PM

Yes, that's right Jedi.

I have the LG/Zenith player and this topic was discussed very early on in this model's introduction. The massive thread pertaining to this machine dealt with this problem extensively and it was found that quick resolution changes would result in these white dots. The way to eliminate them is to shut off the DVD player completely, then turn it back on again and the lines or dots are gone.

Wayne

LENNY 2112

03-23-05, 09:49 PM

Fleaman: I really felt the changes were light on the eyes (like you said less sensative) These changes were made using the colored film and while changing the settings the White value never varied...which I was worried about. I voted great OTB, little adjustment...it was too bright. I felt that the changes were not as drastic as you may think. Yea I'm strictly using DVI with the HDMI/DVI adapter.

Jedi: I hooked up my RCA s-video Directv reciever just for giggles and I had that line up there too. It's got to be from the source signal or just some sort of noise. I didn't see it in any other source like Xbox or DVD players. I did look at NeuNeo but the S97 seemed more attractive. The S97 has about a 2 percent edge border that does not take away from the overall picture. It didn't bother me at all.

jedi35

03-23-05, 11:21 PM

Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I love this board!! Does anyone know if the issue of pixel cropping on the 318 has been dealt with?

fleaman

03-24-05, 12:17 AM

Originally posted by LENNY 2112
Fleaman: I really felt the changes were light on the eyes (like you said less sensative) These changes were made using the colored film and while changing the settings the White value never varied...which I was worried about. I voted great OTB, little adjustment...it was too bright. I felt that the changes were not as drastic as you may think. Yea I'm strictly using DVI with the HDMI/DVI adapter.

Yeah, could be the DVI input is less sensitive to the rgb adjustment #'s.
I know that on my H30, the contrast/brightness sensitivities are very different between the s-video and component inputs. On one of the inputs the overall contrast hardly changes from minimal to max range and the other input the contrast changes make huge differences with just a few clicks.

LENNY 2112

03-24-05, 08:13 AM

I was playing around with the S97 DVD player and noticed it has brightness, contrast, color..etc controls. I don't want to mess with them too much but this could be another reason my H31 adjustments changed. Should I calibrate the DVD player and set the H31 back to OTB settings?

guitarman

03-24-05, 10:38 AM

Normally you'll leave the DVD players picture controls at stock. Unless there's a brightness push, then you could lower the players bright level. Use Avia if you have it. Make sure you can set the brightness patterns moving bars correctly.

jedi35

03-24-05, 10:07 PM

How should I approach the more advanced calibration menu items on the H31? I mean, how do I work with the RGB brightness and contrast? Do I mess with things until they look better to my eyes, or is there a test pattern on Avia or DVE that will help? I'm mainly concerned about getting proper greyscale, and eliminating red push on the component input.

Also, should I expect any screen brightness issues when going from a table mount to a ceiling mount for my pj?

LENNY 2112

03-24-05, 10:20 PM

Jedi, I have DVE and it comes with a film...like colored 3d glasses. You'll adjust the RGB looking through the 3 colored films. It's real simple but like I said I was having troubles with matching the greens. Blues and reds are dead on color match i had to adjust green to where it looked decent.

therealgeno

03-24-05, 10:37 PM

LENNY 2112

The green filter is messed up on DVE - I experienced the same problems and after digging a bit, I found everyone else had problems with the green filter - they deduced it must the green DVE filter.

So just what you did - get it decent.

therealgeno

03-24-05, 10:39 PM

Originally posted by jedi35
Also, should I expect any screen brightness issues when going from a table mount to a ceiling mount for my pj?

Depends on the screen - some are made for opposite sides of normal, others are made for same side as normal.

What screen?

orion456

03-25-05, 02:41 AM

Originally posted by therealgeno
LENNY 2112

The green filter is messed up on DVE - I experienced the same problems and after digging a bit, I found everyone else had problems with the green filter - they deduced it must the green DVE filter.

I used DVE filters on my 17" Del computer monitor and the colors on all three filters were dead on; including the green. So unless a computer monitor is calibrated to a different standard it seems the DVE filters are correct.

guitarman

03-25-05, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by jedi35
How should I approach the more advanced calibration menu items on the H31? I mean, how do I work with the RGB brightness and contrast? Do I mess with things until they look better to my eyes, or is there a test pattern on Avia or DVE that will help? I'm mainly concerned about getting proper greyscale, and eliminating red push on the component input.

Also, should I expect any screen brightness issues when going from a table mount to a ceiling mount for my pj?

Use any graysteps pattern like Needle pulse, pludge, maybe even the optimaizers brightness pattern. The key to natural color is making the different shades of gray be gray with no color tints.

"Some tuning tips for all displays that have advance RGB-adjustments for grayscale.

After making initial calibration changes take a look at the Avia Needle Pulse pattern to see that there's no color tints in the Gray to White steps in the upper part of the pattern. The Pluge pattern also in Avia called Black Bars+ Log Steps. It's found under Video Test Patterns/Gray Scale & Levels/Black & White levels -

If it's not dead on grays to white make final changes with the user advanced adjustments.

Test patterns like this -
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77vsteps.jpg

Example - you see red/pink tint in the light gray/white.
R-contrast -2
G-contrast +2
B-contrast +2

If you see green in the dark grays/black
R-brightness +2
G-brightness -2
B-brightness +2

You see how it works, color in the light grays you use the RGB-contrasts

Color in the dark grays you use the RGB-brightness to fix.
enjoy and get good at it, can really make a huge difference "

Also I would start by first deleting the color you need until it's out of the grays. Lets say it took 8 clicks minus on the red to get there. Instead of leaving this make it just 4 clicks and inturn add four clicks more to the Blue & Green for better balance."

krasmuzik

03-25-05, 12:26 PM

guitarman

I would only use that opposing color balance technique on component analog - where there is likely headroom. On DVI if properly matched to PC or Video DVI video levels there may not be headroom (at least on Red, there is probably Blue/Green headroom on the H31)

Some day someone will make a test DVD with color ramps so as to find the headroom - without needing a colorimeter to see when colortemp goes south.

I would also add that people should not use their TV's as greyscale reference - if they have a good computer monitor - it might have a decent 6500K greyscale preset (My ViewSonic PS790 does)

guitarman

03-25-05, 02:44 PM

Yes they should be prudent when taking color out of gray. Mostly I'd move the numbers just a couple of digits.

Since I just re-bought colorfacts, all the time before I got good practice seeing color in grays ;). You'd be surprised after a while you spot it easy. Even when I'm using colorfacts I use my eye on the gray patch I'm tuning for speed. You can see the blue or green in the black or red & blue in the whites pretty easy. I just think it's a cool thing that to make the best color for your TV all you have to do is make gray shades look gray. :)

After a while you'll know what the gray steps in the needle pulse pattern should look like. The tip to hv a needle pulse pattern up and toggle the color temp to find your best grays in the upper boxes is a good start.

Hey infact the vertical shades of gray picture I posted is a good one to see that there's color bias in the grays. Take a look at it. There's red in the dark gray, blue in the pure white, green in the mids. Someones got allot of work to do there. lol

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77vsteps.jpg

Here's another one where grays need some help. This was the NEC HT510, probably should have went up on click on the color temp for more blue/less red. The NEC didn't have any advanced adjustments like the Optoma.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/ht510grayscale.jpg

floridapoolboy

03-25-05, 05:23 PM

I finally did it, ordered the H31 with the free 100" screen from V/A. I was on the fence for awhile, but as good as the Z3 is this deal was just too good. I'm hoping the H31 will do HD justice, as I'm sure DVD's will look terrific. Now I'll have to scour the thread for tweaking tips. Thanks for helping me decide, and thanks to Lauren at V/A!

therealgeno

03-25-05, 06:24 PM

Originally posted by orion456
I used DVE filters on my 17" Del computer monitor and the colors on all three filters were dead on; including the green. So unless a computer monitor is calibrated to a different standard it seems the DVE filters are correct.

You are the only person I know of in this forum that got the green filter on DVE to match. Maybe you got a good one??

LDD

03-26-05, 01:41 AM

Hello Everyone. I have been reading post for a few weeks, while trying to decide what to do about my TV situation. I made the mistake of upgrading my to a surround sound system and then my TV was simply too small for all that sound. So, I spent a few weeks looking at TV's and was really close to the 50" rear projection Hitachi sets, then saw the 60" a modest improvement, then saw the 70" and was blown away, but the price was 7K.

But, the size got in my brain and I ran into a few people who were putting in projectors and loving them even with the lighting issue trade-off's of regular TV. So, I started reading this post.

I really appreciate all the input and guitarman's review.

A few days ago, I ordered the H31 with the 100in screen, which seemed like a nice entry point package, based on everyone on here's comments.

So, now I am trying to figure out how to set it up.

Ceiling or table mount?

Component connections or DVI?

Switching box and run only one set of cables to the projector?

Move the stereo amp and DVD closer to the projector?

Man, lots of question, but it seems fun so far.

I would appreciate anybody's experience with all these questions or recommendations of threads to read about them.

Larry

floridapoolboy

03-26-05, 09:01 AM

I ordered the same package, along with a Premier universal ceiling mount and ordered cables through Monoprice.com. Using Projectorcentrals calculator I decided to ceiling mount at 13 feet, about midway in the range for the screen size. I chose the universal mount to future-proof for the inevitable upgrade. I'm flush-mounting at 2 1/2 inchs drop, and will project onto the wall to determine the final screen location. For cables I'm running DVI from my hi-def satellite box, and component from my pioneer 563. If I ever upgrade the DVD I'll use just the DVI, and manually switch whenever I switch sources. 25 foot cables, run across the ceiling, concealed in plastic wire channel, to my equipment rack on the side of the room. I even have the wife excited now, I told her she could pick out drapes for the sides of the screen to frame it out and make it look more theater-like. Gotta think about the WAF! Good luck!

guitarman

03-26-05, 10:21 AM

"25 foot cables, run across the ceiling, concealed in plastic wire channel, to my equipment rack"

My setup is like this also. Didn't want to climb thru the attic for the pro effect. Lately I'm using my Receiver to do the component and s-video switching, plus I have a separate DVI feed. My rack needs to be pretty far away so I use 30' cables. It would be better if you could get your components closer if not for signal level for some DVI players but for lower prices also.

So now I'm using the comcast HD/PVR box with component, using a Denon 1600 with component, S-video Replay/TV, switching these with the amp. Also I have a Tosh SD5709 HDMI/to DVI set up for the digital fix. :)
I can easily switch between using one of the best analog players and the DVI player. Both can look stellar with the DVI feed looking more precise or clean.

When you guys receive your H31's you'll have to love the color quality and the crispness of the video at such a large screen size. There's no turning back now you're into the full sized home theater for ever. Wait till any friend comes by an see's your new toy. Plus when they hear the price they'll all want one. I hear it all the time, "it's like you're in a movie theater" "Or I'd never go to the movies after owning one of these". :)

LDD

03-26-05, 11:42 AM

Florida,

I was also thinking about mounting in that range, but my room is only 14.2' deep, so I was wondering about how much room from the back wall did I need for cooling. Plus, I am not sure if I should put up a mount before I know exactly where the screen will display since some people say the throw angle is a concern on this unit.

I would consider myself lucky to have a wife to help me decorate the room. :)

Tom,

I have a sony dvd player now which has component connections. I also want to buy a OTA HD receiver to get the best TV picture quality into the FP, perhaps with a DVD recording function?

Seems like the LG3510, has the OTA capabilities, but have read mixed results about the DVD. Do they make a unit similar to this that does DVD recording as well?

Am I asking for too much so I don't have to buy too many cables?

Larry

lr172

03-26-05, 04:40 PM

I am looking for a little advice from those who have the H31. My theater is 18' long with seating rows at approximately 12-13' and 17-18'. I am ready to upgrade, but have been looking at the 720 LCD's. I am excited by all of the good experiences everyone is having with this projector. However, I am concerned about SDE or pixelation at 12-13'. I have a 106" screen and was considering a possible increase to 110" or 120".

Can I get away with the H31 in the front row or do I need to go LCD? I am unable to preview an H31 locally to see for myself.

Thanks for your input.

guitarman

03-26-05, 04:52 PM

Not up on straight OTA receivers you'll hv to search around for info on those. If there is a LG with DVD & PVR you could try having the PJ do the 2.3 pulldown and scaling for the DVD part. Maybe they're just down playing the LG's deinterlacer w/dvd. The H31 has a great one.

LDD

03-26-05, 09:02 PM

I did a little research and found out that they do have receivers/DVD/Recorders, but they are still about 1K, which is a little more than I wanted to pay at this point, because I figure they will coming down soon. So, I am going to try an alternate approach. I am going to use the comcast HD receiver, without a DVD recorder. It may work if I can use the OTA antenna with it. Comcast does not have a contract with CBS, which has a lot of programming that I want to watch, specifically the Masters.

Larry

Jefftaz

03-27-05, 09:15 AM

Questions for all those who have already set up a H31. On Optoma's website they have a projection calculator. You have 2 choices for determining the distance/screen size. The 1st is by desired diagonal screen size and the other is by projection distance. However the 2 do not match each other.

Example 1 (diagonal screen size) - I put in 92 inch diagonal and it tells me that the projector needs to be 11.7 feet away to get the full 92 inches.

Example 2 (projection distance) - I put in 11.7 feet and it tells me that I can get a 98 (not 92) inch diagonal screen size. Per the projection distance calculator I only need 11 feet to project a 92 inch diagonal image.

Can those of you that have the optoma verify which of these 2 is correct?

Thanks !

guitarman

03-27-05, 01:57 PM

Ok I went ahead to next Saturday at 4am, set the Comcast PVR to record (Tune Up). Thanks, so what kind of tune up images will I see?

Re Comcast HD channels. I get all the networks, channels 2,4,5,7. Isn't CBS channel 5? I watch Survivor Wednesday night on 5.

jedi35

03-27-05, 03:27 PM

OK, am I missing something? There is only one filter in my Video Essentials DVD, and it's dark blue. Do I have the wrong dvd? Thanks for all the suggestions on what to look for.

Also, is there a danger in running the power cable in the same ceiling track with my other video cables? I don't want to risk interference.

My elcheapo Chinese ceiling mount arrived last Friday, and will hopefuly get put up on Monday or Tuesday. I'll report how it goes.

Jefftaz

03-27-05, 04:41 PM

jedi35,

I have the Digital Video Essentials DVD and it came with one filter card with the filter colors red, green and blue.

Jeff

Jefftaz

03-27-05, 04:46 PM

The reason I posted the above question about the H31 throw distances is that I will be mounting at 11 feet (maybe a tad more) and hope to fill my 92 inch 16x9 screen. Per one of the Optoma calculators I should be ok... I guess I will find out on Wed when I mount my H31. :)

LDD

03-27-05, 07:41 PM

Originally posted by gottahavapj
If you want to go really cheap you can use a closed circuit camera mount that several of us H30 owners have used. You can see a picture of it in my gallery although that is an old picture and I don't have it doing that weird side hanging thing anymore. That is the 9" version and I think the 6" version would be a little more rigid if you don't need much drop. Once you crank down on the allen screws it does not move. While this is definitely not as nice as a chief mount etc.- It does a very adequate job. I also have a safety cable mounted that is not in the picture. Do a Froogle search by the part number of 826-06w if you're interested. Kinda ghetto but since installing it I have never thought of replacing it with a better one.

Cheers!

I am putting my H31 in a room with a 8' ceiling, room is 14' deep and I plan on having a 100" Diagonal. Have do you know if you need more drop?

If you use the closed circuit camera option, do you need to modify it with any plates or does it just bolt right up?

Larry

gottahavapj

03-28-05, 12:55 AM

Originally posted by LDD
I am putting my H31 in a room with a 8' ceiling, room is 14' deep and I plan on having a 100" Diagonal. Have do you know if you need more drop?

If you use the closed circuit camera option, do you need to modify it with any plates or does it just bolt right up?

Larry
Hey Larry-

You can just screw it to the ceiling. The end of the Panavise mount that attaches to the ceiling has four screw holes in each corner of a square "plate". It is 2" between each screw hole so a few of us have determined in previous discussions that it would be a good idea to get two of the holes/screws aligned with a ceiling joist for strength. The projectors are pretty light but I felt better about not using sheetrock anchors on all four mounting points.

Hope that is clear. I could take some additional pics if you need it.

Cheers!

digitalmonkeyman

03-28-05, 01:09 AM

Originally posted by guitarman
Not up on straight OTA receivers you'll hv to search around for info on those. If there is a LG with DVD & PVR you could try having the PJ do the 2.3 pulldown and scaling for the DVD part. Maybe they're just down playing the LG's deinterlacer w/dvd. The H31 has a great one.

Can someone please clarify. I am ising the Denon DVD-1910 with the H31. I have a DVI-D cable. Which one is doing the scaling? deinterlacing? pull-down?

Are these adjustablevia the DVD or the PJ?

Thanks!

LDD

03-28-05, 01:41 AM

Originally posted by gottahavapj
Hey Larry-

You can just screw it to the ceiling. The end of the Panavise mount that attaches to the ceiling has four screw holes in each corner of a square "plate". It is 2" between each screw hole so a few of us have determined in previous discussions that it would be a good idea to get two of the holes/screws aligned with a ceiling joist for strength. The projectors are pretty light but I felt better about not using sheetrock anchors on all four mounting points.

Hope that is clear. I could take some additional pics if you need it.

Cheers!

.................................................
Gottahavapj,

OK, that makes sense for the ceiling side, but do you need any plates for the projector side or does the one threaded end plug right into it? I am surprised that one threaded screw would hold it.

Larry

gottahavapj

03-28-05, 02:06 AM

The other end of the mount screws right into the tripod mounting hole on the projector. It did on my H30 anyway- I'd be surprised if the tripod mounting holes were different between the H30 and 31.

As this is a very light projector- it doesn't take much to hold it up. I know if my H30 ever came loose from the mount- I'd find it hanging from the screwed in VGA cable and connector. It would probably be a good idea to use another cable going from one or two of the 3mm mounting holes to one of the mounting screws in the ceiling as a safety cable.

Cheers!

HiHoStevo

03-28-05, 02:33 AM

LDD...............How much drop you need is dependent on what the distance will be from the top of the screen to the ceiling.

The offset angle of the H31 is 7.42 degrees. So if you multiply the tangent of the offset angle (which works out to be .13023229) times the distance from the front of the lens to the screen (in inches) you will get the distance from the top of the screen to the center of the lens. Then you will need to add the distance from the center of the lens to the ceiling for your total distance from ceiling to top of screen.

Steve

HiHoStevo

03-28-05, 03:12 AM

Originally posted by krasmuzik
mystery

but you half to subtract half the screen height from PJC unconventional measure. Usually you want to know offset as the height above the screen top! For Infocus it works out to a fixed percentage of screen height - I presume you can figure the same number for Optoma. This is much easier to deal with on installation - if you know you have a 4' high screen with a 25% offset - then you know the projector lens needs to be 1' above the screen. Simple!

Unfortunately Optoma does not make it so simple........

When I talked to tech support the agent told me...."oh it is normally between 6 and 7 inches." (I had asked him for the offset for a 110" diag. screen 14'2" from lens to screen).

After pressing him for more exact information he talked to the "project manager" who said "the offset was 37.5% of screen height."

When you actually work the math (which required clearing several layers of old cobweb's) for my application it works out to 22.14" from lens center to screen height, where the 37.5% would have given me 18.9 inches. As I do not have an H31 I cannot verify which procedure is correct... however as Tom mentioned that his screen had an offset of 20" from 14' it would seem that my numbers are fairly close.... I do not know the height of Tom's screen so I cannot accurately compare Optoma's managers numbers.

In any case "offset" does not seem to be a common number that the tech support folks are really familiar with........ if you check the diagram in the back of the H31 manual where they give you formula's for determining most everything.... the one number NOT given a formula is "offset," go figure!

mystery

03-28-05, 06:50 AM

Steve,

Just to confuse you (and me) a little more... :)

Tom/Guitarman's measurements actually came in at 6" ceiling to lens and then 14" lens to screen top. The 20" wasn't the offset in his case. It was the total drop from ceiling to screen top.

His screen is 52" x 92", a 106" diagonal screen.

I think that this is a carefully crafted conspiracy engineered by the Infocus people in order to so thoroughly confuse us all that we'll throw up our hands and just buy the frickin 4805! :D :D :D

Wayne

Wolfie

03-28-05, 10:16 AM

I just ordered one on your recomendations, guitarman. Better be good, ;)

Wolfie

HiHoStevo

03-28-05, 03:31 PM

Facinating Wayne............

That neither jives with any of the information provided by Optoma....

Not their drawings... (should be 21.9" + 6" for 27.9" total)

Not their Tech Support... (should be 6 - 7 inches + 6" for a 12-13" total)

Not even their "Product Manager's" info..... (19.5" + 6" = 25.5")

Wayne I am starting to think their may be some sort of conspiracy going here...............

guitarman

03-28-05, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by Wolfie
I just ordered one on your recomendations, guitarman. Better be good, ;)

Wolfie

Sounds good,
You don't have to take my word for it anymore, too many guys have it, have seen it, compared it to the 4805. The H31's the keeper.
enjoy

bigkev4123

03-28-05, 10:09 PM

i am looking to buy one of these projectors in the next month and i am looking to get an upconverting dvd player to go with it....i was wondering then what upconverting dvd players have you all been using, which ones you are happy with, and your personal opinion how much better the dvd will look upconverted to 720 or 1080 on the h31....thanks in advance

Arty13

03-28-05, 11:59 PM

Sorry about keep bringing up HTPC with the H31, but is there a way on the machine to keep it in a certain mode? like i want it to stay in mode 43, because when i try to get 854x480 it switches to it but only for a second and then switches back to 856x480 which i had before and it is mode 48..

any help here?

Arty

10 min later...
somehow i got it to stay in mode 43 854x480... with powerstrip... now to try it out :D

the H31 res display says... 854x480 / 60hz mode 43

but powerstrip says the refresh rate is 64hz

later on...
I looked at tracking/phase adjust pattern on ColorFacts, and i believe it is pixel mapped 1:1 but there is one problem, on the right hand side of the screen, the last pixel(s) are stretched, not sure why that is... but trying to get rid of it... let me know if anyone can help... thanks
might i add, everything looks alot clearer, i noticed before that i had some blurry spots now and then, but only noticed that with text... so yeah... i'm getting excited :D

i might know why it is streched... when i go back into powerstrip... and click on advanced timing options, it says the res is 848x480 and not 854x480 but everywhere else it says its 854x480, optoma says it, ati says it, powerstrip says it(besides the advanced timing options), so what i am thinking, could it be displaying 854x480 res but only showing 848x480? its not really noticable, unless you are looking for it, but would rather get rid of it...

now i noticed that when i am playing a video in full screen mode, there is no streching on the very right side... maybe it is just windows desktop that is a little screwy with the pixelation of that... but i should get to bed.. enough with continueing to keep editing/adding stuff onto my post over the last hour or two... good night all...

LDD

03-29-05, 12:49 AM

Originally posted by HiHoStevo
LDD...............How much drop you need is dependent on what the distance will be from the top of the screen to the ceiling.

The offset angle of the H31 is 7.42 degrees. So if you multiply the tangent of the offset angle (which works out to be .13023229) times the distance from the front of the lens to the screen (in inches) you will get the distance from the top of the screen to the center of the lens. Then you will need to add the distance from the center of the lens to the ceiling for your total distance from ceiling to top of screen.

Steve

Steve,

So, if I mount my projector at 13' from the screen, then 13'X12"=156" distance from the screen.

156" x .13023229=20.32" from the top of the screen to the lens center.

So, if I have a 48" width screen, in a 8' ceiling room. Do most people mount the screen in the middle with 2' on the top and bottom?

Assuming a center mounted screen with a 2' from the ceiling then I would have 24.00"- 20.32"=3.68" from the ceiling to the lens center. I hope this is possible with the closed circuit camera mount. It says it can do as low as 2".

Thanks for the help.

jedi35

03-29-05, 01:39 AM

Arty,
Congrats. It looks like you did it. You got 1:1. Can you tell us all what you did step by step, so that we can accomplish this if we wish? I do plan to have some kind of htpc one day, and would love to see what the big fuss is all about concerning 1:1 pixel mapping. In theory, I can understand how the image should be clearer than with a standalone dvd player. It's just that my picture is so clear now that I have trouble imagining it being a lot better.

bigkev,
I know this topic is long, but a search would have revealed a rather lengthy writeup I did on the H31 when I compared it to the Infocus 4805. I included notes about how the H31 looked with 2 unconverting dvd players that I own. Check it out:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...839#post5325839

Also, here is a similar writeup that the 4805 owner did:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=520007

In short, you might want to stay away from the Samsung players, as they crush blacks(if you want to get technical). This means they do not display blacks as dark as they should be for video material. I've gotten great results with the Zenith 318, but there are some issues that Zenith has not dealt with fully. Others have found the Denon 1910 to be a good unit, and I think Tom loves a player by Toshiba. All that info is here in the thread somewhere.

Well, I'm still hoping to get my H31 up on the ceiling during the next couple of days. I bought something to hide the cables today, but I'm not sure if I made the right choice or not. Should I be looking to install the pj in the spot where the lens is set at the least amount of zoom(so I could make the image larger if needed), or should I go the other way? Should I be concerned about the power cord running alongside the video cables?

I'm happy to report that after the 2 or 3 times that I got some kind of funny error at startup with my bulb, there have been no problems since. I'm thinking that these errors may have had to do with the dryness in my house, and the pj may have suffered a tiny static shock. Humidity levels are higher now. I'm still amazed at how bright the picture can get even though I'm well below the 850 lumens of bright mode. I was watching Carnivale on HBO HD last night, and during a night storm scene the lightning flashes were so bright they almost hurt. They temporarily blinded me. Lamps and other sources of bright light beam at me with great intensity. I know that some of you are concerned that my picture will not be bright enough at the halfway point for my bulb, but I do need this extreme brightness to tone down some, or I'm going to go blind!!

Can some others report on what filters they got with the Video Essentials DVD? I got the first edition of the dvd. Is it the second release, designed for hdtv that has the 3 filters for color adjustment? I think mine specifically talks about how to use the single blue filter supplied to adjust color and tint. No red or green. Could I be remembering things wrong, and have lost the other two strips?

HiHoStevo

03-29-05, 02:32 AM

Originally posted by LDD

So, if I have a 48" width screen, in a 8' ceiling room. Do most people mount the screen in the middle with 2' on the top and bottom?

Thanks for the help.

I have been told the best way to mount the screen is to sit down in your viewing position and then have someone measure from the floor to your eye height.

The screen should be mounted such that 1/3 of the screen is below your eye height and 2/3 of the screen above it.

So in your case with a 48" screen if the height of your eye level is say 40" then the screen would want to be 16" below your eye level or 24" off the floor........ which as luck would have it in your room turns out to be centering the screen vertically on the wall... this is probably unusual and is based on my guess as to your viewing eye height.

I would keep these in mind as general guidelines... however, I would mount the projector and get it level first and then figure out where to mount the screen. If your projector mount has some vertical movement that would also be good and help you finalize your projector placement before you start with the screen.

HiHoStevo

03-29-05, 02:43 AM

Jedi...........

Their are two theories for mounting the projector. The first would have you mount toward the middle of the zoom range thereby you have the most flexibility. The second is to mount the projector such that when the image is zoomed to it's smallest size it just fills your screen.... that way you are using the smallest section of the lens which should be the best image wise.

Personally I mounted in the middle of the zoom range, but I have read the other comment several times.

As far as your Video Essentials goes... I believe you have the original VE, which only came with a single filter. The version used by most folks with digital displays is the newer DVE (digital video essentials) which comes with three filters and more settings. I have used Avia, the THX settings on certain DVD's, and the setting section of Window Media Center Edition. I have found that when I set up with say MCE then put in Avia... the settings are very close.

guitarman

03-29-05, 10:28 AM

"Tom loves a player by Toshib.

I liked the price of the Tosh but would prefer the Bravo D2 if it would work with my 30' DVI cable, it doesn't. I did try the Bravo D2 yesterday with a 6' DVI cable and it worked great. I was able to view any resolution the 854X480 plus a custom 848X480 also. Both the Tosh and the Bravo play clean with no EE. The Bravo is more responsive to remote commands. The Tosh is dog slow.

slakusr

03-29-05, 10:34 AM

Hello fellow H31 owners,

Had my H31 for a few weeks now, unfortunately I have not yet had a chance to mount it to the ceiling. I got my H31 from an online dealer that included an Optoma 92" screen, but I have not received it yet. Upon measuring my space I realized that a 92" screen is going to be too large, so I am going to order a 77" Da-Lite HCMW Model B instead. I am probably going with the PDR UPM50 mount from Ebay so I'll have about 4" from ceiling to the top of the PJ. Anyone have any pics of their H31 ceiling mounted with a pull down screen? Specifically, I want to get a feel for where screens end up getting mounted. I have about a 7.5' ceiling(basement) and I want to see how far off the ceiling a pull down screen needs to go. Thanks.

Slak

PS. I have done the calcs based on the owner's manual, so I know where the top of my projected image begins. What I don't know is how much black space(if any) is at the top of a Da-Lite screen when fully extended. :)

jedi35

03-29-05, 10:46 AM

Thanks Stevo,
My buddy's on the way here right now to get this pj up. We'll see what happens.

Tom,
Does that mean you are getting 1:1 with your Bravo D2? Are the quirks of the D1 fixed in the D2? Are there any other players that will do 1:1?

bigkev4123

03-29-05, 11:30 AM

guitarman,

the bravo d2 sounds promising except for that fact that i to am going to have to run the dvi cable about 30'.......it sounds like it is your dvi cable....so do you think it would be alright then with a better cable.....and between the toshiba and bravo which do you think has the better picture..thanks

guitarman

03-29-05, 11:51 AM

1.1 I don't think so. Image looks clean though.

Here's the confusion.
The Tosh shows zero pixel crop but overscan show 1 pixel line off at the top and bottom.

The Bravo shows no overscan loss but crops 1 pixel on the right side. I could try other custom rates. Got any suggestions out there?

Oh when I choose the stock Bravo's 852X480 the Optoma picks it up as 852X480 60hz mode 53

guitarman

03-29-05, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by bigkev4123
guitarman,

the bravo d2 sounds promising except for that fact that i to am going to have to run the dvi cable about 30'.......it sounds like it is your dvi cable....so do you think it would be alright then with a better cable.....and between the toshiba and bravo which do you think has the better picture..thanks

I got a pretty cheap thin DVI cable, it did work well with the Bravo D1, no sparkles. With the D2 I don't even get an image. I'm running the D2 right now with the 6ft cable punching in resolutions.

I do like the Bravo's picture over the Tosh. Both look very clean. The Tosh has that Warning text cropping that shows up in the beginning of each DVD. Which is weird, my Phillips Q50 does the same thing, it's just the opening Warning label.
Zero lockups/loader probs so far with the D2.

billymac

03-29-05, 12:30 PM

Arty13,

Please post your powerstrip settings and a step by step guide for newbies. This is very important information and has kept some people from purchasing the H31 over the 4805.

:)

thanks!!!!!

guitarman

03-29-05, 12:48 PM

I'm noticing motion and layer problems with the Bravo D2 at 854X480 or 848X480. It's ok with it's other stock resolutions. No motion or layer problems with the Toshiba except for the 1024X768 which does come in handy for XGA projectors, it's just not working smooth with the H31's 854X480p.

jedi35

03-29-05, 12:55 PM

I'm almost at the end of my pj ceiling installation. As you would know it, my buddy has hit a snag with one of the ceiling anchors in my plastor ceiling, and had to run out to the hardware store. The Chinese mount was a snap to put together, and seems to be a real bargain for $17.99. It came with M3 and M4 screws. I'm not going to use the extensions at all, for stability. What was most comforting was when we assembled things and just help the pj and mount up to see where the holes needed to be drilled, I found that the ball joint was easy to work with, and should be able to get a nice rectangular image with the screen right where it already is. We may be able to get away with no keystoning or distortions at all. Cool. The top of my 84" diagonal screen is about 15" down from my ceiling. I moved things back a bit so that I would use the smallest zoom possible. The pj will now be mounted right over my seating position, somewhere between 13 and 14' back from the screen. I didn't measure exactly, just positioned the pj to fit the screen. It looks like my pj lens will be about 6 or 7' inches down from the ceiling. My buddy's back...

Jefftaz

03-29-05, 12:56 PM

Another player that is getting great reviews is the Panasonic dvd-s97s. If you follow the threads on the DVD forum you will see that people are choosing this player over much more expensive players such as the Denon 2910. You can get the Panasonic player for a very reasonable price and it does produce a very amazing picture. I have a Bravo D1 that also produces a nice picture, however the player has locked up on me while watching movies. This is a issue as you have to re-boot and then forward to the place that the player locked up. I moved the Bravo to my bedroom and now have the Panasonic s97s as my main DVD player. I give a slight edge to the Panasonic in picture quality and it is more reliable (no lock ups). I will be connecting my Optoma H31 with a 45 ft HDMI-DVI cable from pccables to the Panasonic tomorrow and will write a review on the results.

Jeff

mystery

03-29-05, 01:01 PM

Jeff,

This is very good news indeed that you will review a digital cable that long. I'll be needing a 50' DVI cable so if your 45' shows well without sparklies then 5 more feet shouldn't be a problem.

Wayne

jedi35

03-29-05, 02:29 PM

Jeff,
Can the Panasonic do custom resolutions, or are you stuck with 480p, 720p and 1080i? Are there any overscan or cropping problems with the Panny? Does anyone know if there is a solution to the pixel cropping problem on the Zenith 318?

The ceiling mounting has gone well. However, I do notice that this mount does not allow the pj to be unmoveable once it's set in place. Maybe I haven't tightened things down well enough. I'll have my buddy check it again tomorow. It's holding well enough, as long as you don't touch it. Really, why would you need to touch it, once it's set? So, I guess there isn't really a problem. The geometry is a bit better than when I had it on a stand. It's almost perfect, though the unit is aimed up slightly because of the unit's offset. I can live with it. The pj is even quieter on the ceiling, but I have the new issue of lens light reflecting off the ceiling near the pj. I don't think this can be avoided, even with dark ceilings. The pj was tilted up a bit more than I would have liked, so when I aimed it down, I decided to bring the top on my screen down a bit for better geometry. This was not a problem. The center of my lens is about 7" down from the ceiling, which is the best than can be done with this mount. If you need it to be closer, don't go with this Chinese mount. I'll spend the rest of the afternoon watching, and installing some cable tracks. It's great to be able to stretch out my legs in front of the couch again.

LENNY 2112

03-29-05, 02:38 PM

I also have the S97 and consider it the best in class for less than 300 bucks. Amazing picture and sound quality.

Jedi: sounds like things are going good over there, take some pics!! I get my couches today, but the room is still a mess and speaker wire everywhere. I should mount the pj in two weeks or so, right now it is on the tripod. I was wondering about the zoom issue and middle placement.

Loner

03-29-05, 02:56 PM

I've been following this thread with much interest pretty much since it has started, and I am very interested in getting this projector. My old one is on the fritz, and am having a hard time living without it! Would anyone know where I could actually see one of these things in the Kitchener Ontario area that is set up? I don't mind travelling for an hour or two to check it out if I have to. The only place I know of that sells it in the area is Tiger Direct in Toronto, and I don't think they have a showroom.

Also, I am kind of curious about something... since the 4805 and the H31 are similiar in PQ, I thought I would check out the 4805 since it is set up locally here. I was dismayed with the lack of colour saturation. Everything looked very washed out to me. I have read that the 4805 is supposed to be very good OTB, but compared to the plasmas right near it, man did it suck. They have a high-def feed hooked up to them all, and trying to be objective with the colours, skin tones looked good on the plasmas compared to the 4805. I just did not like what I saw with the 4805. I agree that the picture looked three dimensional which was nice, but was dismayed with the lack of colour. Of course, I have been reading that the 4805 is pretty good, so maybe there is something wrong with the setup. The colour balance seemed good, just lacking. I would call it low saturation, hopefully that makes sense. At home I have a DVE calibrated Sony Wega, and I love the colours. The plasmas looked very close to what I am used to, the 4805 did not.

After all that, what I am getting at is, is this what I should expect with the H31? Granted, the 4805 was still an improvement over my old projector (and I do mean old) so it will still be an improvement, but I certainly would not buy the 4805 based on what I saw, and if the H31 is similar, I should stay away.

Which is why I am hoping someone knows somewhere in the "area" that I can see one set up!

Another thing, in regards to having the projector set up in the "middle" of its zoom length, or at one of the ends, I also wonder about that. As in, with photography, depending on the zoom lens, you can get pincushion and barrel distoration at either ends of the zoom. I assume this is not an issue with the lens in these projectors?

Thanks for the help!

Don

mystery

03-29-05, 03:10 PM

Don,

I've sent you a pm.

Wayne

Temple

03-29-05, 03:26 PM

I just recently purchased the 4805 and now I am thinking that I may want to switch over to the H31. I have a few questions from people that have seen both of these via component.

When I bought the 4805 I wanted to make sure that I matched up a good DVD player with it so I purchased a Denon 2900 and have it hooked up via component. If I was to go with the H31 would it look as good as the 4805 does via component?

So from what I have been reading the H31 is quieter, better blacks.
Is the H31 better than the 4805 when it comes to SDE or pixelization?

The only thing that I would be missing that I can see is the faroudja
chip that the 4805 has. Not sure how the pixelworks chip compares.

Thanks

gottahavapj

03-29-05, 04:08 PM

Originally posted by LDD
I hope this is possible with the closed circuit camera mount. It says it can do as low as 2".
I don't think it's realistic to say you can get the lens 2" from the ceiling with this mount. I would say 4-5" minimum. I hope your screen has room to move down a few extra inches.

Cheers!

jedi35

03-29-05, 04:10 PM

Temple,
A page or 2 back is a link to a long writeup I did when I had my H31 and the 4805 in the house together. In short, Dan and I found that the 4805 had much better OTB performance on component. We noticed a red push on the H31 that was not there on dvi. I'm sure things can be calibrated properly by messing with the component RGB levels. I have yet to do this, but I'm busy now enjoying my new ceiling mounting. The H31 might show more SDE because of the blacker lines between pixels, but as long as you can get back 2X your screen width, it's not an issue. Actually, I'm back about 1.8X and it's still good. Can't move up any further, however. I was impressed with the Pixelworks' deinterlacing on svideo. I would guess that it should work well for most viewers. I couldn't stand watching svideo on my Benq 6100 for more than a couple of minutes.

Lenny,
Pics might be hard, since I don't have a digital camera. Once things are done and settled, I'll see if I can borrow one.

gottahavapj

03-29-05, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by Loner
I was dismayed with the lack of colour saturation. Everything looked very washed out to me. I have read that the 4805 is supposed to be very good OTB, but compared to the plasmas right near it, man did it suck. They have a high-def feed hooked up to them all, and trying to be objective with the colours, skin tones looked good on the plasmas compared to the 4805. I just did not like what I saw with the 4805.
If there was ambient light in the room it is understandable that the 4805 would look (comparatively) washed out.

If there was good light control in the room then I would guess they either had to large a screen for the light output of the 4805 or they had the 4805 calibrated to sell plasmas. :)

Cheers!

jedi35

03-29-05, 04:24 PM

Yeah, someone must have messed with the 4805's settings. OTB should be pretty darn good, as I've seen myself.

Temple

03-29-05, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by jedi35
Temple,
A page or 2 back is a link to a long writeup I did when I had my H31 and the 4805 in the house together. In short, Dan and I found that the 4805 had much better OTB performance on component. We noticed a red push on the H31 that was not there on dvi. I'm sure things can be calibrated properly by messing with the component RGB levels. I have yet to do this, but I'm busy now enjoying my new ceiling mounting. The H31 might show more SDE because of the blacker lines between pixels, but as long as you can get back 2X your screen width, it's not an issue. Actually, I'm back about 1.8X and it's still good. Can't move up any further, however. I was impressed with the Pixelworks' deinterlacing on svideo. I would guess that it should work well for most viewers. I couldn't stand watching svideo on my Benq 6100 for more than a couple of minutes.

Sounds like the only way to really tell is to get one of the H31's home and test them out side by side. This may prove to be more trouble than its worth.

I am thinking that the fan noise difference between them is probably very marginal at that so it may not be worth the trouble. I may just pick up a ND2 filter and see what that does for my blacks on the 4805.

Thanks

Loner

03-29-05, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by gottahavapj
If there was ambient light in the room it is understandable that the 4805 would look (comparatively) washed out.

If there was good light control in the room then I would guess they either had to large a screen for the light output of the 4805 or they had the 4805 calibrated to sell plasmas. :)

Cheers!

heh, anythings possible! Supposedly it was out of the box settings... the colour balance between colours looked right, ie it wasn't too cold or too warm, people didn't look all green etc. The relationship between colours looked pretty good, just a little washed out or low in saturation. I thought about the ambient lighting, but I grabbed a movie from there at the end of the night, and hit up one of the salesmen to look at it when they were closing shop. They had turned off most of the lights for me, and all their lights there are pretty dim to begin with. It didn't improve much. But the dim light that was on in the far corner of the store may still have been enough. If so, my white walls in my apartment are going to cause MUCH more washing out of the screen than that little light did. Hmm, maybe my last projector WASN'T as bad as I thought! :) Regardless, that's kind of why I am asking. I don't expect the projector to have the contrast range and saturation of my Sony Wega tube tv. I don't know what kind of contrast range plasmas are supposed to have, so I don't know if the H31 should even compare or not. If the 4805 should be close, then I know the one I saw wasn't set up right and can disregard any opinions I might have formed about it.

The girlfriend is saving up for a plasma for the bedroom, and it would suck if my projector ended up being the worst quality picture in the place!

Don

edit: I think the screen they are projecting on is a 92", so I don't think it's too big.

Nightanole

03-29-05, 04:44 PM

Does anyone know if there is a benifet(sp) to sending the h31 a 48hz or 72hz signal? Is the h31 one of the projectors with afixed 60hz panel that converts everything to 60hz? Mine says max 85hz, and it syncs to it, but i cant tell if its really sending out 85hz to the screen or converting it back to 60hz like my old z1.

Also i cant get a full sync with ati omega 2.6.05a drivers. 848 and 856 look the same here, both with slight softening in areas, but both look better then 720/480 that is stretched.

Loner

03-29-05, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by jedi35
Yeah, someone must have messed with the 4805's settings. OTB should be pretty darn good, as I've seen myself.

This is what I am wondering, and what I am getting at. I don't know how it is supposed to compare to plasmas, so I don't know if I am making the right comparison. I think you mentioned above that you didn't like the 6100. A friend has the 6100 so I am quite familiar with it, and what I saw reminded me very much of the 6100 (without the rainbow effects of course!) . It was okay, but not great. (definitely a more three dimensional feel to it!) I know people really love the 4805, so I was expecting more. Maybe closer to the plasmas that I saw, but maybe I shouldn't be looking for that. Hmm, I think maybe I am answering my own question that it certainly wasn't an ideal set-up, so I guess I shouldn't form an opinion about it. But that still leaves the question of how it should look compared to a plasma. If the H31 (and 4805) are decently set up, would it compare? Would I have nice saturated colours when the video material contains it?

I am still really interested in the H31 as I still need a projector. I got a pm about a place in the area that might sell the H31, so I am really going to try to see it in person! I have about a month to a month and a half before I have the cash to buy one, so I want to use the time to make sure I am getting the best projector for me!

Don

billymac

03-29-05, 05:07 PM

also sounds like some serious flourescent lighting

arty!!!! wake up AARTY!!!! we need your help!!!!

Arty13

03-29-05, 05:31 PM

sorry everyone for the wait... but my internet has been out all day and just came back on now... it was down for like half if not all the town today... damn charter... but now i have to go to work so when i get done with work i'll try to post my steps and settings... but otherwise i'll get it up tomarrow... i'll just post my settings real quick...
Have ATI Radeon 9600 Pro overclocked
Engine Clock 513 (from 398.25)
Memory Clock 351 (from 297)

on the main part of Powerstrip it says...
854x480 65 Hz

in the custom resolutions. i have

854x480
Horizontal - Vertical
32 - refresh rate - 65
48 - front porch - 3
38 - sync width - 10
80 - back porch - 1
positive - not positive
pixel clock = 32.752

and when i click add new res. it says it was accepted and then i use it and the res goes to 848x480 and then i go back to the display configure and change the res to 854x480 and the res switches to 854x480 with 65 hz refresh rate... optoma h31 says Digital RGB 854x480 60Hz Mode 43

hope that is good enough for now...

Arty

billymac

03-29-05, 05:46 PM

SSSSUUUUWWWEEEEETTTT!!!!!!

any H31 htpc'ers out there that can try this?

BlazeMaster

03-29-05, 06:41 PM

thanks Tom the Guitarman and all the other H-31 owners for suggesting this FP. I just picked it up couple of hours ago and watched Spiderman (SuperBit) on it and loved the PQ. I have a couple of questions regarding the setup.

What screen material/ gain are you guys using for this H-31? I'm now projecting the image on my grey painted wall w/ some ambient light coming in the room and the PQ is alot more watchable than I thought it'd be. What would you guys recommend for the best punch and brightness without loosing too much of the contrast?
What type of mounting methods do you guys suggest? I have it now slightly above eye level sitting on a ladder behind my head. I cannot really hear the fan, but I can feel the heat from the projector, so I'd like to raise it a little bit higher. If I use a ceiling mount, it'd have to be pretty flexible and be able to drop it down about 4-5 feet from the ceiling. If I go with a wall mount, I'd like to mount it against the back wall, with just enough space for the cables behind the projector to connect to the inputs without bending it too much. Anyone that has success installing it, shoot me some ideas, I'm eager to get it installed properly.

guitarman

03-29-05, 07:19 PM

You could always invert the PJ with a higher shelf mount. The $20 panavise mount is popular you could make use of the large tripod screw instead of the three little jobbo's.

Screen, you can go with a mat white to high power and not lose contrast with the H31. If you're using a non-tensioned pull down model choose mat white or High Power.

digitalmonkeyman

03-29-05, 10:11 PM

I just hooked up my Denon 1910 to my H31 via component and it looks GREAT! I then switched over to DVI, and the picture is not nearly as good. Even when I up it to 720p it still looks better via component. Is it possible it is the cable?
(got a 25 footer via the recommendations in these threads from pccables.com.
Thanks

BlazeMaster

03-29-05, 10:15 PM

can someone share your picture settings also? I just did the basic calibrations on DVE and noticed something strange when I was using the included color filter from DVE. As I made changes on the settings, when I stay on a number, the color seems to shift slightly, is this because of the color wheel? I didn't notice this shift in color with my old CRT RPTV, maybe I'm just new to this DLP technology. I have it set in "Cinema" mode. Which color temperature works the best for most people? Which mode should I watch in? Is there such thing as break-in period for DLPs as well?

Tom, can you give me a link to that mount that you're talking about? Thanks.

LDD

03-29-05, 11:18 PM

Originally posted by digitalmonkeyman
I just hooked up my Denon 1910 to my H31 via component and it looks GREAT! I then switched over to DVI, and the picture is not nearly as good. Even when I up it to 720p it still looks better via component. Is it possible it is the cable?
(got a 25 footer via the recommendations in these threads from pccables.com.
Thanks

I am really confused about DVI vs component video. In the shoot between the 4805 and H31, it seemed the preference was DVI, but you got a better picture with component cables.

Is this a trial and error thing?

I am running quite a ways from my receiver to my projector, 35', and thought component cables would do better at that range.

Also someone in the thread was going to use a long DVI connection and see if it worked well. Does anyone recall who? And if it happened?

I hope I enjoy my projector as much as I enjoy reading this thread. Thanks everyone for all the enjoyment. I look forward to adding to it after I get my room set up.

Anyone on this board in Albuquerque area?

Larry

jedi35

03-29-05, 11:41 PM

Blaze,
I'm not sure how much help anyone else's numbers will be to you. It all depends on your setup, room lighting, etc. I've noticed that I get different results when I switch dvd players. They are even different if I switch resolutions on my sources. So you see, your settings have to be your own. My colors have been quite stable, but I'll keep an eye out for this shift you mentioned. It sounds like your unit might need servicing it you can see it while watching movies. I'm told that color temp 1 is 7500K, which is closest to 6500K(what we all should be trying to achieve). However, the H31 cannot achieve 6500K without experienced calibration of the RGB levels and greyscale. The bulb should be pretty well burned in after the first 100 hours or so. Don't make any serious judgements until after that.

ChrisDuncan

03-30-05, 12:29 AM

I know different DVD players will give you different calibrated results for contrast and brightness and color and so on, but my settings have pretty much stayed the same with different room conditions. My theater has dark purple walls and a black ceiling, but I get the same results with THX optimizer when I also tried it in my bedroom with white walls (and no screen, just projecting it on to the wall) using the same model DVD player.

I'm also surprised how often I see "calibrated" settings with the contrast actually set higher than the brightness. I have a 65" RPTV and 2 projectors and I've never came up with those results (using THX and VE), but I've seen people mention such results in various posts. I know the first Video Essentials mentioned something about how one would normally have contrast lower than brightness too. Do people tend to get vastly different settings using Avia?

LDD

03-30-05, 01:02 AM

Originally posted by guitarman
Yes Avia, DVI/HDMI player I'd use 480p or take a look at 720p, no 1080i

Can a beginner use AVIA?

digitalmonkeyman

03-30-05, 01:09 AM

I consider myself a beginner and I use DVE. At first it is a little overwhelming, but once you get the hang of it. Like Tom said, after he used colorfacts so many times, he didn't even need it to spot some obvious color in his grey patterns.

I think the board is pretty well split on Avia vs. DVE, so "smoke 'em if you got 'em"

LDD

03-30-05, 09:19 AM

Originally posted by gottahavapj
I don't think it's realistic to say you can get the lens 2" from the ceiling with this mount. I would say 4-5" minimum. I hope your screen has room to move down a few extra inches.

Cheers!

I think I need ..3.7 to 4", but the website said it would go to 2". So, I will have to see when I get it all set up. I don't have any of the equipment yet. If all works out, I am supposed to get my projector, screen, and cables in the mail today.

Although, I had a dream last night that they only delivered 1 of 2 boxes and it was the screen. The lady UPS driver in my dream went back to the truck and said she couldn't find the other box. Then based on the shape of the box, I thought they put it all in one, so I ripped it open and it wasn't true. It was only the screen. Then I woke up by remembering that they said 2 boxes in the email confirmation. We will see. Usually those guys are pretty good.

gottahavapj

03-30-05, 10:17 AM

Originally posted by LDD
I think I need ..3.7 to 4", but the website said it would go to 2". So, I will have to see when I get it all set up.
Just realize that the minimum you could get the mount to drop down is 2" if the section of pipe between the two knuckles was horizontal or parallel to the ceiling. It would also be a little tricky to get your hand and the allen wrench in there to crank the screws down. Then you have another 2" down from the top of the projector to the lens center. This is where I came up with the 4-5" minimum.

You'll have to play with it a little. Those dimensions down to the inch may not be as critical as you think. My projector aims up a little- perhaps 15 degrees. I think this can slightly reduce the offset distance as well. I don't use or require any keystone adjustment either.

I am supposed to get my projector, screen, and cables in the mail today.
You enjoy that thing. It was almost a year ago now since I received my H30. I clearly remember the checking of Fed Ex tracking hourly and hardly being able to sleep. The anticipation was palpable.

I have a total of 1532 blissfull hours on my H30. There's not a day that goes by that I don't appreciate all the help that Tom, Mike SRC, Jason (dagamepimp) and others provided me.

We went to one of my wife's co-workers houses last Friday night and the husband was so excited to show me his entertainment system. He recently picked up a 53" Panasonic RPTV on clearance. I sat ~13' away at a slight angle and viewed the somewhat blurry image with blooming reds and blown out whites as he thumbed through a few DVD's. I even caught my wife smiling at me in acknowledgement. Needless to say- I don't think we'll invite them over anytime soon to see our setup. They were nice people so I wouldn't want to do that to them. :) They had an absolutely perfect family room for a projector and screen as well, much more conducive to FP than mine. To bad.

Cheers!

HiHoStevo

03-30-05, 07:17 PM

LDD----

Yes a beginner can use Avia.

I am a beginner and have been using it for several years... there is still 90% of the stuff I have never investigated, but it walks you through the setting of contrast, brightness, sharpness, and color.

That should be good enough to get you started...

billymac

03-30-05, 07:27 PM

man, i wish there were more htpc H31 owners around :(

is the full resolution of this PJ 848x480? or is it 852x480?

what would would the code be for full 1:1 50?

billymac

03-30-05, 07:34 PM

Arty is that via DVI or VGA/RGB?

Originally posted by Arty13
sorry everyone for the wait... but my internet has been out all day and just came back on now... it was down for like half if not all the town today... damn charter... but now i have to go to work so when i get done with work i'll try to post my steps and settings... but otherwise i'll get it up tomarrow... i'll just post my settings real quick...
Have ATI Radeon 9600 Pro overclocked
Engine Clock 513 (from 398.25)
Memory Clock 351 (from 297)

on the main part of Powerstrip it says...
854x480 65 Hz

in the custom resolutions. i have

854x480
Horizontal - Vertical
32 - refresh rate - 65
48 - front porch - 3
38 - sync width - 10
80 - back porch - 1
positive - not positive
pixel clock = 32.752

and when i click add new res. it says it was accepted and then i use it and the res goes to 848x480 and then i go back to the display configure and change the res to 854x480 and the res switches to 854x480 with 65 hz refresh rate... optoma h31 says Digital RGB 854x480 60Hz Mode 43

hope that is good enough for now...

Arty

jedi35

03-30-05, 08:07 PM

Here are some comments on my newly finished ceiling mount for my H31, and some other improvements to the setup. I posted this somewhere else, so sorry if it sounds like it's written to n00bs:

Here are some tips that I just tried out and it improved the video from my pj immensely. It may help those of you who have light colored walls and need a quick, cheap solution. As you know, light is reflected back onto your screen from light colored walls, floors, and ceilings. I'm renting and haven't really talked to my landlord about painting the walls. I imagine that he'd probably let me, but I don't want the expense of hiring someone to come out and do a few coats of a nice dark color. Besides, it's not my house, and I can't take it with me when I'm ready to move. So, I spent a little bit of money and got 4 curtain rods that can extend out to 86", and a bunch of black fabric, as well as some curtain hooks. Yes, that's right. I just made some black curtains for my side walls, very easily(no sewing at all). The 2nd pair of rods hold a second overlapping pair of black curtains that I just lifted up and stretched over the screen, across the ceiling. The 2 pairs just meet in the middle in a mountain peak shape, and the central line is stapled to the ceiling. In effect, I have built a giant shadow box around the screen area, and now, my light walls are not a factor at all.

The benefits to the picture are unbelievable!! I knew that my blacks on the H31 pj would be a little better, but I had no idea that they would be a LOT better. In fact, I have not really seen better blacks on any projector to date, including the big $13K dlp HD2+ pjs. I'm serious. The black levels are so deep now that I'm reminded of a crt set at times. It's really beautiful. Also improved is the contrast ratio. The range of light to dark is more defined. Whites look brighter, darks look darker. The 3D effect is much more enhanced. I was not prepared for the fact that my color intensity would go way up. It's like someone got into my menu, and pumped the color way up, but the settings are still the same. Guys, it didn't cost me a whole lot of money to do this, and I didn't have to change my whole room. In fact, things look much more theaterlike now. Curtains around and above the screen, the pj is mounted on the ceiling, and there are cable tracks for my wires on the ceiling and back wall...man, these last couple of days of work have paid off. I friend helped with all this, and didn't charge me a dime.

One final thing...if you are planning to get a pj, and want to ceiling mount it, I suggest that you find spot where the pj is set to a relatively small zoom on the lens, or somewhere near the middle of it's range if you want more flexibility. This way, the pj is using less of the lens surface, and you will get a better image with less of a chance for lens distortions. My lens was set at almost full zoom before I repositioned it for minimal zoom, and the improvement can be seen. Someone else gave me this idea, and I'm really glad I tried it. Happy viewing.

digitalmonkeyman

03-30-05, 08:13 PM

Can anyone help me with this?

I just hooked up my Denon 1910 to my H31 via component and it looks GREAT! I then switched over to DVI, and the picture is not nearly as good. Even when I up it to 720p it still looks better via component. Is it possible it is the cable?
(got a 25 footer via the recommendations in these threads from pccables.com.

Thanks

Arty13

03-30-05, 08:29 PM

I am using DVI to get 854x480... and you all wana here something really funny...

From: Thomas Brock [thomasb@optoma.com] Sent: Wed 3/30/2005 1:01 PM
To: Arthur
Cc:
Subject: Re: Optoma H31 And HTPC
Attachments

Arthur,

The projector does not support that resolution. It should work ok if you change the computer resolution to 848 x 480.

Thomas Brock
Optoma Technology, Inc.

"Arthur" wrote:

> Hi, I purchased the H31 about a month ago, and I have it hooked up to my PC, via DVI, and I have a ATI Radeon 9600 Pro, and I am using powerstrip, but it wont let me use 854x480 resolution, so i was wondering if you could give me all the specs to get it to 854x480 resolution on a ati radeon card on the pc via DVI, this would be much appreciated, thanks a bunch.
>
> Arthur

--
Thomas Brock
Senior Customer Service Representative
Optoma Technology, Inc.
408-383-3700 x.3836
408-383-3701 (fx)
thomasb@optoma.com
www.optomausa.com

now that is funny... this was before i got the 854x480 to work... i think i'm gona have to email him back... but i still think that i got the pj to go 854x480, but it is only showing 848x480 pixels... and that would explain the streching on the right side, i wana say its about 6 pixels.. but ohh well...

Arty

and once i got it in 854x480 i can change alot of settings, but so far none that effect the streching on the right side...

Nightanole

03-30-05, 08:34 PM

I cant get anything to sync completly. 848 and 856 both work, but they are soft in some spots. They still look better then 720 stretched though. i cant get 854 to work at all.

Arty13

03-30-05, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by Nightanole
I cant get anything to sync completly. 848 and 856 both work, but they are soft in some spots. They still look better then 720 stretched though. i cant get 854 to work at all.

i know how you feel, i have the same problem, but i got the H31 into 854x480 and might i add, it looke 1000 times better, it is crystal clear, compared to 848 and 856, but there is also like, 6(is what i think) pixels on the right side that is all the same... so yeah...

Arty

digitalmonkeyman

03-30-05, 09:37 PM

Nightanole and Arty13,
You are using your PC's correct? There is no way to change the res like you are discussing using a dvd player. Am I wrong?
Thanks

Digital Monk

billymac

03-30-05, 09:58 PM

wow, i don't get it

nightanole, what card?

Originally posted by Arty13
I am using DVI to get 854x480... and you all wana here something really funny...

From: Thomas Brock [thomasb@optoma.com] Sent: Wed 3/30/2005 1:01 PM
To: Arthur
Cc:
Subject: Re: Optoma H31 And HTPC
Attachments

Arthur,

The projector does not support that resolution. It should work ok if you change the computer resolution to 848 x 480.

Thomas Brock
Optoma Technology, Inc.

"Arthur" wrote:

> Hi, I purchased the H31 about a month ago, and I have it hooked up to my PC, via DVI, and I have a ATI Radeon 9600 Pro, and I am using powerstrip, but it wont let me use 854x480 resolution, so i was wondering if you could give me all the specs to get it to 854x480 resolution on a ati radeon card on the pc via DVI, this would be much appreciated, thanks a bunch.
>
> Arthur

--
Thomas Brock
Senior Customer Service Representative
Optoma Technology, Inc.
408-383-3700 x.3836
408-383-3701 (fx)
thomasb@optoma.com
www.optomausa.com

now that is funny... this was before i got the 854x480 to work... i think i'm gona have to email him back... but i still think that i got the pj to go 854x480, but it is only showing 848x480 pixels... and that would explain the streching on the right side, i wana say its about 6 pixels.. but ohh well...

Arty

and once i got it in 854x480 i can change alot of settings, but so far none that effect the streching on the right side...

Arty13

03-31-05, 01:07 PM

Originally posted by digitalmonkeyman
Nightanole and Arty13,
You are using your PC's correct? There is no way to change the res like you are discussing using a dvd player. Am I wrong?
Thanks

Digital Monk

yeah i'm using my pc via dvi link, there is a way to change it on dvd players, but that is up to the dvd player itself, the dvd player has to support the wanted resolutions...

Arty

dlonga

03-31-05, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by digitalmonkeyman
Can anyone help me with this?

I just hooked up my Denon 1910 to my H31 via component and it looks GREAT! I then switched over to DVI, and the picture is not nearly as good. Even when I up it to 720p it still looks better via component. Is it possible it is the cable?
(got a 25 footer via the recommendations in these threads from pccables.com.

Thanks

I guess I can't say I'll really be of help, but I have just received my h31 and I also purchased the Denon 1910. The 1910 older firmware had some issues.
So if your firmware is old (don't remember what new version should be) but
There were macro blocking, green color push, and black control problems,
and out of sync issues with DVI. Check out the forums. Do a search for Denon 1910.

The one possible help is make sure to check the mode settings on your DVD
player. Make sure Black is off, and all color controls are set to 0 for . The denon allows you to control black level and color. I was a little nervous about the Denon, but the price was right, so I thought I would try it. So far I'm happy with it.

Last night I hooked up the 1910 to the h31 via DVI and the picture was absolutely unbelieveable!!!

I tried the Denon at 480p on DVI and it looked good, but it was like the sharpness was cranked or something. The image was just not smooth.
Colors were great though. Then I went 720P and things got real nice!!

Originally, before I saw It with my own eyes, thought everyone on this forum was crazy, when they said setting the dvi to 720p made the picture look better. There is no math that can explain upconverting on the DVI and then having the projector down convert back to 480P.... I just can't figure what could make the picture better! Well, until my eyes saw the difference. The picture turned from nice but coarse, to smooth and flowing going to 720p.

I watched the Incredibles at 720p on the Denon DVI and the picture was better then when I saw the movie in the theater. Wow, animation looks
nice.

Hope I was able to help. On my 1910 the picture is way, way
better on DVI than the component, although the component looks pretty
good too, Just needed more tweaking on the projector with component.
So far I have not tweaked setting on DVI. I don't think I have to.

I'm a newbie, so what the hell do I really know!

If anyone is interested in my setup:

Onkyo 602 receiver
old JBL speakers Pro II and Pro III's, ****** old Center channel and sub.
(Don't have much in the speaker area yet)
60X60 dalite model B screen matte white.
optoma h31 projector
denon 1910 DVD

Working on getting my ceiling mount, right now projecting from
a table. It's a very small room. Projector is about 10 feet from
the screen and will be around 9 once ceiling mounted. Seating
distance is anywhere from 6 feet to 11 feet. Yes there is some
screen door at 6 feet, but not a big deal. Screen is kitty corner in
the room, so last person seated has to sit to close 8-( but too
bad for them. ;-) really even with a little screen door on a 70
inch diagnal still very watchable at 6 feet, especially with animation.

Thanks!

digitalmonkeyman

04-01-05, 01:09 AM

dlonga,

Thanks for the input. I just got the Denon, mfgd. Jan 2005, so I 'think' the firmware should be ok. Maybe I'll do more research like you suggested.

Like I said, I got a less expensive cable in a long length, so maybe that has a little something to do with it. I just ordered a new Monster DVI Cable, and I know a lot of people bash Monster, but I must say, in all my experience, I have had the best luck and results with their product. So I do not mind shelling out a few extra bucks for something I am happy with. I'll have to let you know how it goes.

I did change my DVD setting to black off and made sure everything else was at zero. I calibrated the H31 using DVE over component, and I must say the results are stunning. Even the wife commented how much better it looks, even with the lights on, than her sister's new plasma. I think calibration makes such a huge difference. I was actually thinking of biting the bullet and getting someone with colorfacts over here to tweak it more, but I love what I have, so maybe I should not bother.

I'll let you know how the new Monster works, and maybe (hopefully) it was just the cable. Now if I could just get the wife to agree to let me transform the room a little like jedi35 did.......

Jefftaz

04-01-05, 06:42 AM

Quick update for those who were interested.
I bought a 45 foot long HDMI-HDMI cable from pccables.
I also bought a DVI-HDMI adapter from them.
I hooked the HDMI to my Panasonic 97S DVD player and then the DVI adapter into my Optoma H31.........
The picture is perfect over the 45 foot HDMI cable !
Just for comparison I brought my Bravo D1 down from upstairs and hooked it up to the Optoma H31 with a 6 foot DVI-DVI cable. I could not tell any difference in picture quality from the D1 running over a 6 foot DVI cable and the Panasonic running over a 45 foot HDMI cable. There were no sparkles in the picture at all.

Here is a picture showing the 45 foot HDMI cable.

Jefftaz

04-01-05, 06:46 AM

And a screen shot (I am not the best photographer but the picture with the Panasonic 97s to the H31 over the 45 foot HDMI cable was amazing)....

mystery

04-01-05, 07:41 AM

Very nice Jeff!!

I'm going to check out your deal with the cable because I think it might be just right for me.

What's the deal with the Panasonic now? Has the new firmware corrected the problems exhibited earlier? I'm referring to the review below from HomeTheaterHiFi.

Panasonic - DVD-S97 (HDMI) (Auto 1)

MPEG Maker: MEI
MPEG Model: 2050004AP
Deinterlacer Maker: Genesis
Deinterlacer Model: FLI-2310

MSRP: $299.00
Website: http://www.panasonic.com

Auto 1

Passed Borderline Failed Not Tested
Chroma, 3-2 Film Flags
Chroma, 3-2 Alt. Flags
Chroma, 2-2 Film Flags
Chroma, 4:2:0 ICP
Video Levels
Blacker-than-Black
YC Delay
Image Cropping
Sync Subtitle to Frames
3-2 Cadence, Film Flags
3-2 Cadence, Alt. Flags
3-2 Cadence, Mixed Flags
Film Mode High Detail
Bad Edit
Video to Film Transition
Incorrect Progressive Flags
Motion Adaptive
Layer Change
Responsiveness
Recovery Time
3-2 Cadence, Video Flags
2-2 Cadence, Film Flags

Auto 2

Passed Borderline Failed Not Tested
Chroma, 3-2 Film Flags
Chroma, 3-2 Alt. Flags
Chroma, 2-2 Film Flags
Chroma, 4:2:0 ICP
Video Levels
Blacker-than-Black
YC Delay
Image Cropping
Sync Subtitle to Frames
3-2 Cadence, Film Flags
3-2 Cadence, Alt. Flags
3-2 Cadence, Mixed Flags
2-2 Cadence, Film Flags
Film Mode High Detail
Bad Edit
Video to Film Transition
Motion Adaptive
Layer Change
Responsiveness
Recovery Time
3-2 Cadence, Video Flags
Incorrect Progressive Flags

Video

Passed Borderline Failed Not Tested
Chroma, 3-2 Film Flags
Chroma, 3-2 Alt. Flags
Chroma, 2-2 Film Flags
Chroma, 4:2:0 ICP
Video Levels
Blacker-than-Black
YC Delay
Image Cropping
Sync Subtitle to Frames
Bad Edit
Incorrect Progressive Flags
Motion Adaptive
Layer Change
Responsiveness
3-2 Cadence, Film Flags
3-2 Cadence, Alt. Flags
3-2 Cadence, Video Flags
3-2 Cadence, Mixed Flags
2-2 Cadence, Film Flags
Film Mode High Detail
Video to Film Transition
Recovery Time

A few years ago, we tested some different Panasonic players that pretty much changed the outlook of price versus performance. This short run of players is still highly regarded and most the time sells for more then their original retail price on the Internet. Since then, people have been waiting with bated breath for a repeat from Panasonic, and when they announced that their new player would not only support HDMI but would include Faroudja processing, everyone thought this would be it. Well, I’m sorry to say that this new one doesn’t quite live up to the days of the RP-82 and XP-50, but it is a lot closer then the ones in between.

The S97 is based on an MEI MPEG decoder developed by Panasonic’s parent company, Matsushita. This MPEG decoder doesn’t seem to be quite as good as the past MEI chips, but is still better than a few others out there. The chip shows severe banding with 4:2:0 material, and this normally would be masked with the Faroudja’s chroma filtering, but in this case, the problem was so severe that the Faroudja wouldn’t remedy it. This is not a huge issue, as material that has this problem is extremely rare, but it shows a downward trend from MEI, which we always hate to see. The MPEG decoder in the RP-82 was one of the best in this regard. I also noticed a lot of flickering with alternating 3-2 material, which is pretty common with most Disney animated films. Some MPEG decoders show slight banding with this material, and personally I find that more acceptable then an obvious flicker.

The player will pass a below black pluge signal via both component and HDMI outputs. Also, if you have to convert the HDMI output to DVI, the RGB levels stay the same and do not remap to PC RGB levels. This is a common issue with a lot of HDMI players right now.

The white level of this player was 101 IRE which is very good and there was only a slight amount of Y/C delay that measured at just slightly less then a half pixel of delay. The MPEG decoder did an excellent job synching subtitles to the progressive frames and didn’t exhibit any combing that we could detect.

This player did suffer from excessive pixel cropping via component but not the HDMI output. The left side of the image alone was cutting out 17 pixels, which is completely unacceptable.

The user interface of the player was quite easy to navigate, and disc navigation was quite speedy. I didn’t notice any slowdown when navigating menus or skipping chapters. The layer change was a bit sluggish though and measured at 1.5 seconds.

This S97 is based on the Genesis FLI-2310 chip and does suffer from the same issues as every other player using this chip. Macroblocking was quite obvious regardless of output type. The degree was about average and not quite as bad as the original Denon DVD-5900 or Samsung HD-1000. This player has three de-interlacing modes; Auto 1&2 and Video. The video mode is a forced video mode that will not lock on to any film flags at all and should only be used with known video material or the image will appear extremely soft. Auto 1 is the standard film based processing, but for some reason, the implementation of the Faroudja processing was not consistent with the others we have tested. This player would not pass our 3-2 Cadence Video Flags test and showed obvious combing artifacts. I have never seen this happen before with a Faroudja based player, but unfortunately it happened here. Auto 1 also failed our 2-2 cadence test, but I expected that.

Auto 2 passed the 2-2 cadence test and falls in line with the Auto 2 modes of the Denon players that have used this de-interlacing solution as well. But Auto 2 did not remedy the 3-2 Cadence Video Flag problem and added another one to the list with our Incorrect Progressive Flags test. Again, this is the first time we’ve seen this issue using this chip.

The HDMI output showed the same results in terms of de-interlacing and offers output resolutions of 480p, 720p, and 1080i. This is also a next generation version of the HDMI output and it supports full DVD-A playback via HDMI. The S97 also supports HDCD and has an upsampling feature that ups the resolution of standard 44.1/16 CDs to 24/192.

Overall the Panasonic is a good player, but unfortunately they set the bar higher a few lines ago. The bugs they have here could easily be worked out with a simple firmware update, and I hope they address them soon.

Wayne

B24HALL15

04-01-05, 07:51 AM

Jeff-

Awsome Pic, you are making it hard on me on deciding on the Panny or Sanyo. For the price and the image of this picture I would be stupid not to try this projector out! Can you tell me what screen you are using again please. Thanks!! Also what are peoples sugeestions on the Carada screen, the brilliant white, grey, matte white?

Jefftaz

04-01-05, 08:56 AM

mystery,

Yes the firmware updates have corrected many of the issues that were causing trouble when the Panasonic 97s was first released. In fact at the end of the initial review that you posted the reviewer actually stated that Panasonic could fix the issues with a firmware update:

"Overall the Panasonic is a good player, but unfortunately they set the bar higher a few lines ago. The bugs they have here could easily be worked out with a simple firmware update, and I hope they address them soon."

Well the good news is that they did address the issues and the latest firmware is 540. If you buy the Panasonic 97S go to the DVD forum and burn the latest firmware to a CD-R and stick it into your player. It will update you to latest firmware. Per tests that have been done on the latest firmware, macroblocking is non-existent and the only test that still fails is some flag cadence that is used rarely on foreign DVDs. I have mine set on Auto 2.

I love this player, I own a Bravo D1 which also produces a good picture but the picture quality edge goes to the 97s. I also tried out the Samsung 841 and Denon 1910 but they did not beat out the Panasonic 97s.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

B24HALL15,

My setup is the Optoma H31 running to the Panasonic 97s (dvd player) over a 45 foot HDMI-HDMI cable from pccables. The screen is also made by Optoma and is matte white with a 1.0 gain. It is a 16x9 screen and is 92 inches diagonal. I got the screen for free with the Optoma H31. If you are interested in where I picked it up just PM me.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is funny my wife and I also have a Mits 62 inch DLP rear projection TV. It is high def and does produce a very nice picture. However when my wife and I were watching The Incredibles and scenes from Gladiator on the Optoma H31, my wife told me that she thinks the picture on the Optoma is better. Can not beat that, plus the 92 inch screen size makes us feel like we are at the theater!

mystery

04-01-05, 09:17 AM

Jeff,

Thanks very much for that clarification and the directions on how to acquire and implement the firmware fix. This sounds like a very good player indeed. Especially when coupled with the H31.

I get my H31 next week so I'm told. I will probably stick with my HTPC using ZoomPlayer and ffdshow but am curious about all the hubbub pertaining to this S97 player so I might try it out to compare. I don't suspect that any DVD player will beat an HTPC but I am open to being proven wrong.

I presently have the LG7832/Zenith DB318 upconverting player.

Do you believe that the Panny shows better than the LG/Zenith?

Once again, your screenshot is awesome!! I love the detail in the white hair.

Any thoughts on the Sony NS975V player?

Wayne

Wolfie

04-01-05, 10:19 AM

Hey gitarman. I just got mine yesteday and I must say this little jewel ROCKS! I have never seen images so clear and crisp and bright before. I had (and still have) an old RUNCO 4:3 projector that can't hold a candle to the H31, and it runs 8 times the cost of the Optoma. I appreciate the advise. I almost bought a 4805, but i'm glad I didn't.

Wolfie.

Jefftaz

04-01-05, 10:29 AM

mystery,

Yes a good HTPC is viewed as giving the best picture quality possible on DVDs. However the Panasonic 97S is great as well (I do not have a HTPC so I cannot compare). The one thing I do know is that the Bravo D1 was compared to a HTPC and it was said to be close in picture quality. I have both the Bravo D1 and the Panasonic 97S and the 97S wins in terms of picture quality. I think anyone looking for a cheap (below $300) dvd player will be thrilled with the Panasonic 97S... the key is to do the firmware update.

I have not seen or heard about the LG7832/Zenith DB318.

I have read reviews on the Sony NS975V, in fact it was between the Sony NS975V and Panasonic 97S when I was looking at DVD players. However the Sony NS975V did have a known problem with a green push. I did not want that as my Mits DLP also has a slight green push out of the box. Maybe that can by ISF'd out but for me the Panasonic 97S was the player.

With this latest firmware I have not had any issues at all, no macroblocking etc... the picture is great. This is going to be the player that I keep until the high definition players hit the market. Heck I am in no hurry for high definition players now - the picture quality of the Optoma H31 and the Panasonic 97S is amazing... it looks better than my local cinema.

Arty13

04-01-05, 11:06 AM

I was wondering if anyone had DVE Pro. cause i was reading a little about it, and the cost (on sale) on this one site and it was 300 bucks, for 6 dvds, and on one of the dvds it has tests for 854x480p, and was wondering if anyone has tested that on the H31, or if possible someone could send me that part of the dvd so i can test it out... thanks...

Arty

rbastedo

04-01-05, 01:17 PM

Might seem a "dumb question" but is it right that I can only get signal through the DVI-A selection on my H31?

I run a DVI dual cable from my HTPC Nvidia 5900 vid card DVI output to the DVI input on the H31 but when I press DVI-D (for digital right?) I get "No Signal". I only get signal when selecting DVI-A (analog right?).

Is this how it's supposed to work, or is there something fundamentally wrong here?

billymac

04-01-05, 01:18 PM

question, would you need a transcoder to convert vga/rgb to coponent at the projector side of the signal? or would it just work if you used an adapter, like say an ati adapter or something?

jedi35

04-01-05, 02:04 PM

dlonga,
I'm probably one of the ones you thought was crazy for saying that 720p and 1080i looked better coming out of an upconverting dvd player than 480p. I'm glad that you noticed the improvements, and posted about it. I know that it can't really be explained logically, but I know what I see. Enjoy!!

Jeff,
Thanks for sharing your results. I'm sure that a lot of people here will be glad to know that such a long length of a digital cord can still work as well as a short one.

Has anyone besides me and Jeff compared more than one upconverting dvd player side by side? That would be interesting. I compared the Sammy 931 and the Zenith 318, with the 318 winning out. Jeff, I see that you like the Panny over the D1. Now the question is whether or not the Panny can be bested by any other standalone player in it's price range. Anybody have any thoughts on that NeuNeo player that is the first to upconvert to 1080p?

rbastedo,
The H31 is able to receive dvi-a(analog)signals as well as dvi-d(digital)signals. In your case, I think there are probably a couple of things that might be causing the problem. 1: Maybe your videocard is taking a vga signal and is just sending it along the dvi cable while it is still in analog form. You might check with the manufacturer or another experienced user and see if a true digital dvi signal is being generated by the card. This might be why the H31 only see a dvi-a signal. 2: You might have made the mistake of buying a dvi-a cable. This kind of cable will only pass analog signals, not digital, so it won't make a difference even if your card is putting out dvi digital. It's an easy mistake to make if you are unfamiliar with dvi cords, or when dealing with sellers who don't know. Good luck. Oh, one more thing...if you get a dvi-i cable, you'll be able to pass analog or digital signals along the same cable into the H31's dvi port.

billy,
No transcoder is needed to turn vga signals into a component feed for the H31. Just use an adapter or vga to comp. cable. Works fine.

guitarman

04-01-05, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by Wolfie
Hey gitarman. I just got mine yesteday and I must say this little jewel ROCKS! I have never seen images so clear and crisp and bright before. I had (and still have) an old RUNCO 4:3 projector that can't hold a candle to the H31, and it runs 8 times the cost of the Optoma. I appreciate the advise. I almost bought a 4805, but i'm glad I didn't.

Wolfie.

Thanks, yeah the projector is sharp and colorfull with great contrast. Shows up in that picture Jeff posted.
enjoy

mystery

04-01-05, 04:14 PM

Jeff,

If you go over to the DVD forum you'll see a sticky thread which is enormous pertaining to the Zenith DB318/LG7832. They are the same player marketed as LG in Canada and Zenith in the U.S. It has it's own unique issues but will upconvert over component cables to 720p/1080i and this is the main draw to this player. It will also upconvert to both of these resolutions over DVI but you have to download and install the correct firmware because you can't upconvert over both component and DVI without DVI exhibiting a white crush. Therefore, if you want to use DVI properly you have to fore go the upconversion through component and install the firmware that fixes the white crush over DVI. Those who wish to utilize component upconversion have to live with the DVI white crush when upconverting with DVI.

Why can't a manufacturer come out with a player that doesn't involve all of these firmware fixes?

Wayne

mystery

04-01-05, 04:16 PM

Tom,

Looks like we're the only two regulars to this thread on line right now. I'll be purchasing the H31 finally next week and my dealer who is well known to the forum and local to me here is planning on possibly hooking up a Sencore to the H31 and put it through a few paces.

Anything you'd like us to particularly test?

Wayne

Loner

04-01-05, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by mystery
Tom,

Looks like we're the only two regulars to this thread on line right now. I'll be purchasing the H31 finally next week and my dealer who is well known to the forum and local to me here is planning on possibly hooking up a Sencore to the H31 and put it through a few paces.

Anything you'd like us to particularly test?

Wayne

I don't know about regular POSTERS, but you at least have another regular READER watching this thread! Don't have much to contribute at the moment, so reading is about all I do... silly question though, what's a Sencore? I assume you are talking about the place you told me about!

Don

guitarman

04-01-05, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by mystery
Tom,

Looks like we're the only two regulars to this thread on line right now. I'll be purchasing the H31 finally next week and my dealer who is well known to the forum and local to me here is planning on possibly hooking up a Sencore to the H31 and put it through a few paces.

Anything you'd like us to particularly test?

Wayne

Good you have access to the color analyzer, it's always nice to be exact. You'll probably see the OTB is pretty close to 6500k. Won't take much. CIE chart comes in very good. Let us know how snappy the picture looks to you? :)

You probably know to start out with using Movie in the picture menu and Film in the Image menu.

First thing you'll notice is, boy this thing is bright.
enjoy it

Nightanole

04-01-05, 05:40 PM

If this keeps up im gona have to give the htpc the finger and go with the 318. Im not sure how much experience you guys have with multi monitors, but with 2 normal displays, the non primary monitor gets less redraw power. In fast motion its like watching a video over a video phone. The picture gets cut up for split seconds. this only happens on the secondary monitor, the primary acts normal. With my old z1 it got choppy on dvd playback ( screen refresh, not choppy video) as it was on my second vga port, i just went into settings and made it primary and it went away.

I cant seem to do this with the h31. When ever it is pluged in both monitors act like the secondary monitor, choppy redraw on both my crt and the h31. Ive tryed disabling the crt monitor, but it doesnt help. The h31 still displays choppy redraw. Im using wm9 overlay. I guess i could tinker some more and experiment with just plain old over lay mixer.

This just sucks. Wont sync with 848 or 856, and now this weird redraw problem. I could careless about the sync as its good enough for me to tell the diff between hd and dvd, but this cut up video durring action shots is not gona work out.

Eh at least i can get a 318 at cost. For those with the 318 with dvi corrected firmware. Is it better for 480p,720p or 1080i?

rbastedo

04-01-05, 05:53 PM

Jedi - Thanks for the response.

I ordered a "10ft DVI-I Dual Link Digital/Analog Flat Panel Cable" but I don't know if that's what I got. I'm not even sure if that's what I needed. What's the right DVI cable for the H31 connecting to an HTPC with DVI out?

I've heard several different answers to that question. :)

If it's the vid card (Nvidia 5900) what's a sure way to be certain I'm outputting digital?

Nightanole

04-01-05, 06:20 PM

Originally posted by rbastedo
Jedi - Thanks for the response.

I ordered a "10ft DVI-I Dual Link Digital/Analog Flat Panel Cable" but I don't know if that's what I got. I'm not even sure if that's what I needed. What's the right DVI cable for the H31 connecting to an HTPC with DVI out?

I've heard several different answers to that question. :)

If it's the vid card (Nvidia 5900) what's a sure way to be certain I'm outputting digital?

You want a dvi-D cable single link. Some of the longer cables are dual link only, so thats ok, just dont spend more money for the dual over the single. Your dvi-I is gona have analog and digital connected at the same time. The h31 has a dvi-a and a dvi-d button so you should be able to switch between them.

rbastedo

04-01-05, 06:37 PM

Thanks Nightanole,

Actually when I select dvi-d I get "No Signal".
I push the button for dvi-a and I see my desktop and then hit DVI-D button again and: "No Signal".

I was just doing it again to refresh my memory and noticed something that has bugged me, and is likely the cause of this behaviour.

When the display properties "detect displays" button is pushed it sees the H31 as "Analog Display" so I have two to choose from in my list,
"Hitachi CM 752"
and
"Analog Display"

I'm currently operating in "single display" mode so when I switch from the "Hitachi" to the "Analog" the monitor goes black and the H31 gets signal over DVI-A.

So, how do I get the Video card to output digital to this, or make it recognize the H31 as a Digital display instead of an Analog display?

Nightanole

04-01-05, 07:16 PM

if you have a ati radeon then you might be able to into the displays section and see if you can turn off the second analog monitor and turn on the fpd that is ddvi-d. Another trick is to set the h31 to dvi-d mode. Then plug it into the video card. If your lucky the pc will detect it as a flat panel. Other then that you might be snookered if the video card checks for analog inputs before digital. The only other trick i know it to hook up a flat panel monitor first, then hook up the h31. You might have a problem finding a flat pannel that has the pinouts for dvi-a, other wise the plug wont fit.

rbastedo

04-01-05, 07:45 PM

No, it's an Nvidia 5900 video card.
I don't even see any digital output or flat panel options in advanced display properties.

I don't have an lcd screen to plug in, I could try the other way your suggested.

mystery

04-01-05, 07:59 PM

rbastedo and Nightanole,

Sounds like you guys aren't having much fun. I would think that the H31 and your HTPCs should be talking to each other. I don't understand why your video card isn't detecting a digital device connected.

I presently have a VGA cable and an S-video cable and my NVidea card configured for 'Clone'. So I get the same image on the TV and projector but they are both analog. My card says, 'TV and Analog'. Yours should say something like 'Digital and TV' shouldn't it?

Some people have gotten this to work. Perhaps they could chime in here and lend some assistance.

Don't know what to say about the 'redraw' problem. These HTPC's are females! :D

Wayne

mystery

04-01-05, 08:00 PM

Tom,

Thanks for the suggestions about the Sencore. Should be interesting.

Wayne

Arty13

04-01-05, 08:31 PM

You guys that are having problems with your digital signal, what OS are you running? because i had to do no special things for my H31 to go Digital, it stayed analog up until i got to the XP Pro SP2 welcome screen, and then i had to use Digital, and my graphics card is an ATI Radeon 9600 Pro, and all the drivers are up to date, and with my Drivers it comes up to be registered as an Optoma H31, so the H31 should be plug and play, i'm guessing xp pro and my card are defaulted at digital(when its available) but yeah... and just make sure you have the right dvi cable too... i use a Duel DVI-I cable, that i picked up online at a reasonable price... and it works great...

Arty

rbastedo

04-01-05, 08:49 PM

Win XP Pro SP1+
DVI-I dual cable 10footer
Nvidia 5900 video card

I just tried shutting down, switching the PJ to DVI-D totally powering off the PC, powering on & starting up.
No go - nothing at all - No Signal on the PJ.

Are you in Clone view, Dual view or what?

Nightanole

04-01-05, 09:36 PM

XP sp2

9800np

dvi-d dual

drivers ive tryed 4.7 and 5.2

I think what i am experiencing is macro blocking. As if a small part of the screen is updated at a diff time as another part. As if the desktop is out of sync. Hell i tryed unpluging my crt and rebooting using only the optima. Yet it still refreshes like a secondary desktop. It does on the crt when the h31 is connected too. It does not do this when my flat pannel is connected to the same dvi plug.

Other odd things. If i set my refresh to 72hz ( 3x film) my clone ( i dont have extend desktop on) crt show 48hz and shuts down ( it wont take below 60hz), also if i plug the same vga cable into the h31 it shows up as 48hz. Yet when i plug in dvi is says its 72hz like i set it. I think its something to do with ati fighting with rage3d tweaker( so i can do more the 60hz in games) fighting with powerstrip. I dont know how to completly reset my graphics drivers back to default. I know that power strip settings still linger cuz the custom 72hz refresh shows up when i set it to 75-85hz in rage3d.

jedi35

04-01-05, 11:59 PM

rbastedo,
I thought that I should add another note here. Your dvi-i cable should connect fine to any dvi port on a pc videocard. However, many hd set top boxes and upconverting dvd players only have dvi-d ports, sending out only digital signals. The dvi-i connection has too many pins on one side to fit into a dvi-d port, so you would have to use a dvi-i to dvi-d adapter(I think those are available). I made a decision before I bought my 5 meter dvi-d cable that I didn't see a real need to run analog signals to the H31 along the dvi cord. I may regret this someday. What I probably should have done was buy a long dvi-i cord, but male at the H31 end and female at the other end. Then I could have purchased male to male dvi-d or dvi-i cables, depending on whether I needed analog signals or not.

Also, you have not mentioned whether or not your videocard drivers are up to date or not. If not, there may be new drivers that address your problem. Have you sought an answer to your question about the NVidia's digital output on dvi in the htpc forum? Perhaps there are people there who have your same card.

Tom,
Are you saying that the H31 should have OTB settings that are almost at 6500K? I thought that Krasmuzik told us that the H31's color temp. 1 is at 7500K, which is the closest setting we have. Even so, my picture looks great. I still need to work with the red push on component. It's scary how dark my blacks got when I put up black curtains to the sides and above the screen. The difference is not subtle!!

mystery,
I'm glad to hear that your will finally have your H31 soon. I would love to hear your responses. What upconverting dvd player are you going with?

rbastedo

04-02-05, 03:44 AM

About the drivers - yes they are up to date - first I was using the 71.20 and I recently installed the 71.84 drivers.

mystery

04-02-05, 08:13 AM

Jedi,

Thanks for your encouragement. I will do a review when I get the H31. All of this talk about trouble connecting it to an HTPC has me more than a little troubled though. I had been using a VGA cable to my X1 producing brilliantly sharp images. I hope that I can get my DVI-D video out from my NVidea GeForce 5300 card to work.

I have the LG/Zenith upconverting player but once I went HTPC, I stopped using this player as my main workhorse and only used it for non-movie viewing to my Pioneer widescreen TV. However, I am curious about the Panny S97 and wouldn't mind auditioning it to compare.

Has anyone compared the H31's image via DVI from a computer with the VGA output from the same computer? I would be interested in finding out what differences if any are noticed between really good cables of DVI and VGA. I have a High Density SVGA cable connected to my VGA port on my tower and it delivers stunning images using ZoomPlayer and ffdshow and DScaler 5 with VMR9 windowed resized to 1280 x 720.

Jedi, I'm curious about your black drapery's effect on your image. I did something akin to the same by constructing a wooden box, suspended from the ceiling and surrounding the screen on all four sides to a depth of 14" toward the couch. What I found were two things. At the time I had off-white walls and a white ceiling. The impact of this black box immediately increased the contrast ratio so much that it was as if I had upgraded to a much more expensive projector.

However, there was a downside to this. The blackness of the surrounding box showed the black levels for what they really were. Prior to the box construction, the whiteness of the walls and ceiling allowed my blacks 'in comparison' to look inky but after putting the box in place, the blacks from my X1 were no match for the black surroundings and immediately became grey. It was maddening. On the one hand, I had marvelous increased CR but on the other hand scenes with lots of black or dark shaded areas looked washed out now. I eventually took the box down because I'd rather have nicer looking blacks with poorer CR than the other way around.
Then I painted our walls green and bought a High Power screen. This made a vase improvement to both CR and blacks.

So, I'm curious as to whether you've critically looked at this issue. You may hate me for bringing this up because if you do start to notice what I noticed, all of that work and money to put up your drapes may have turned out to be wasted.

Let me know what you discover. I suspect that since you haven't reported poor blacks that the blacks on the H31 are just simply so far beyond anything that the X1 could produce that it's not a factor for you. Is this a reasonable assumption?

Wayne

rbastedo

04-02-05, 02:03 PM

Should I try having it detect the H31 as a TV?
I've tried everything else I can think of.

The 71.84 drivers have a part in there for detecting TV that is for HDTV's and they have a list of timings to choose from. Can this help? I'm at a loss of what to do to get it to see my H31 as a digital display.

rbastedo

04-02-05, 02:34 PM

I just disconnected the DVI connection on the back of the PC, detect display and it only found the crt monitor.
THen I powered down, powered up & went into display properties. It only saw the single monitor still.
I set the H31 with the DVI-D button, it displayed No Signal.
Then I plugged the cable back into the PC DVI port and pressed "Detect Displays" again.
It came back with "Analog Display" again.
Works fine, as far as it goes but I'm feeding the thing an analog signal not a digital signal.
No Signal on the H31 until I press DVI-A button, then my desktop is displayed.

Grrrrr...:mad:

guitarman

04-02-05, 03:31 PM

Tom,
Are you saying that the H31 should have OTB settings that are almost at 6500K? I thought that Krasmuzik told us that the H31's color temp. 1 is at 7500K, which is the closest setting we have. Even so, my picture looks great. I still need to work with the red push on component. It's scary how dark my blacks got when I put up black curtains to the sides and above the screen. The difference is not subtle!!

Kras was generalizing that the H31 would be the same as each H30. But even each H30 could be a little different.
Mostly likely which ever factory color temp is already set when you first view the H31 will most likely be the closer to 6500k. It's best to take a look at some graystep patterns and toggle the temps to find the best one.

If you have Avia use the larger graysteps from the Pluge pattern in grayscales & levels. Pluge is the one with large gray steps on the right and moving black bars on the left. Use the how to instx in the first post to get the red out of the progressive feed.

I'll double check but pretty sure it's close to this at factory. I think my default is color temp 1.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/factoryrgb.jpg

jedi35

04-02-05, 05:43 PM

Tom,
Thanks for clearing that up. I've been so busy enjoying the images on the H31 that I haven't adjusted the red like I should. I guess it's all good. Thanks for the help.

mystery,
I think that there must be a big difference in the black levels of the H31 and the X1. I have compared my blacks to the black cloth next to the screen, and in most cases there are close enough to not be bothered. This pj does a very good black. In fact, right now it is as good as what I've seen from the bigger more expensive pjs. My blacks actually got darker and inkyer when I cut down on the ceiling and wall reflections, showing me that the H31 had even more potential. Thanks for the warning, but it's not needed.

mystery

04-02-05, 09:42 PM

Jedi,

That's great news about your black levels. I know how black around the screen can reveal much about this and if you've seen an improvement that speaks very highly of the H31. Yes, my X1 was rated at I believe 1100:1 uncalibrated if I'm not mistaken. The H31 is about double that after calibration so it stands to reason that you're not noticing what I saw.

rbastedo and Nightanole,

I purchased a 17" LCD monitor on 'spec' today. I won't be keeping it because it's black levels and contrast ratio are poorer than the 17" LCD screen which I've been using for the past couple of years.

The reason why I bought it is because it has DVI-D input and I was curious to see what all the fuss is about and also if I would be able to get my video card to detect the DVI input.

I installed the software and drivers and hooked up the new monitor via DVI-D and the old one via VGA as per usual. Then with them both side by side, I was able to compare the images. This told me two things: my nVidia GeForce PCX 5300 DVI-D output does indeed send a digital signal to the monitor; secondly, it told me that the difference between DVI and VGA is real and beyond dispute. Photos and movies are sharper, brighter, more colorful and display higher amounts of detail.

Now I've been concerned that you folks and perhaps others have been unable to get your HTPCs and the H31 to 'talk' to one another digitally. So, I wanted to know if I could get my HTPC to work through the DVI-D output and I proved that it works and is very exciting.

Now, the question remains whether I can duplicate this on the H31 when it arrives.

I thought I'd post what I'm seeing on my video card since I hooked up the DVI-D cable to the new monitor. Perhaps those having problems might wish to check to see if they have the same information.

I brought up the nView Display Mode page and selected 'Clone'. Then I was given a choice of 'Display Pairs'; Here is what I found in the drop down box--'Analog Display and Digital Display', 'TV and Analog Display', 'Analog Display and Digital Display', 'Digital Display and Analog Display', 'TV and Digital Display', 'Digital Display and TV'.

I chose Analog and Digital Display and made the older Analog monitor the primary display and the new Digital one the secondary display.

Both then showed exactly the same image and I was able to compare them as I stated earlier.

It seems that those having trouble getting the H31 to show a digital signal need to somehow get their video card to exhibit some or all of these same 'Display Pair' choices.

Before today, I only had the choice of 'Analog Display and TV' or 'TV and Analog Display' to choose from sending VGA to my monitor and/or projector and S-VHS to my TV/and or projector.

I'm hoping that this will help unravel the mystery as to why some people can't get digital signals to their H31 from their HTPC.

Wayne

rbastedo

04-02-05, 09:50 PM

Mystery, thanks - I need to get a plain DVI-D cable & try again.

Loner

04-03-05, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by Nightanole

I think what i am experiencing is macro blocking. As if a small part of the screen is updated at a diff time as another part. As if the desktop is out of sync. Hell i tryed unpluging my crt and rebooting using only the optima. Yet it still refreshes like a secondary desktop. It does on the crt when the h31 is connected too. It does not do this when my flat pannel is connected to the same dvi plug.

Hmm, it sounds like you are experiencing tearing. When you said "As if a small part of the screen is updated at a diff time as another part", it sounds as if the screen is redrawing a new frame halfway through drawing the previous one. Since the windows desktop doesn't refresh on vertical blank, this kind of thing can happen. At least, that's what it sounds like from your description. A good way to see if it is the same type of thing, bring up a window of some sort. Either My Computer, or notepad, or something. Just make sure it isn't full screen. Shake the window around your screen quickly with your mouse, and you'll notice the left and right edges 'tearing'. If this is what you see in your movies, then it might be possible to fix this. What are you using for viewing dvds? If it's either PowerDVD or WinDVD there is an option in the settings to use Hardware Acceleration. Trying playing with those. On my system with PowerDVD, having Hardware Acceleration off gives me tearing, HA on makes it go away. On a friends system, either option gives him tearing. But WinDVD, with HA on makes it go away. On my system, WinDVD doesn't have tearing in either mode.

I am not 100% sure this is what you are seeing, but if it is, it might be worth giving these settings a try!

Don

LENNY 2112

04-03-05, 12:20 PM

Good Lord I watched 7 hours worth of movies last night...I can't stop watching Movies!!! I watched Pearl Harbor with my 7.1 setup, OMG I never realized how awesome the attack on PH was.

On another note, I was wondering if you guys can give me your opinion on my HT, I rendered it up last week and just wanted to see what you all thought.

http://pic16.picturetrail.com/VOL654/3436628/7060056/91519554.jpg http://pic16.picturetrail.com/VOL654/3436628/7060056/91519534.jpg http://pic16.picturetrail.com/VOL654/3436628/7060056/91519498.jpg

mystery

04-03-05, 01:27 PM

Very nice Lenny!

How in the world do you look at the screen when the ambiance is so eye catching? :)

The view from above and the animated look to those images make me think that you ought to approach the Mattel people and see if they'd like to incorporate a HT room for their Barbie dollhouses. :D

Of course, since I gave you the idea, we'll have to split the proceeds, say, 90/10? :D :D

Wayne

Jefftaz

04-03-05, 01:42 PM

LENNY 2112,

I think your HT looks awsome !
That is just great....

I know what you mean by not being able to stop watching movies.
Ever since my wife and I saw what the Optoma H31 can do on the 92 inch sceen I have been itching to watch another movie. I should be able to mount my projector on Monday, after my set up is complete I will be watching a lot of movies! Now that you mention Pearl Harbor I may need to go back and re-watch that on the Optoma, it is funny how much more you get out of watching a movie on a "BIG" screen...

Jeff

1Time

04-03-05, 02:15 PM

LENNY 2112, very nice rendering. Where do you have your rear and side speakers positioned?

Dan Hitchman

04-03-05, 03:01 PM

As for image tweaks, can you do a proper geometric 2.35:1 crop/stretch for at least DVD resolutions (and hopefully HDTV resolutions... why they don't have image manipulations for most TV's at 1080i and 720p is beyond me) and then use an anamorphic lens on a constant height/variable width 2.35:1 screen, or do you still need a HTPC with scaler (or outboard scaler) for that?

Dan Hitchman

04-03-05, 03:32 PM

Does this projector, given HDTV resolutions, use ATSC color spacing specs. or just NTSC? And when given NTSC resolutions, does it use NTSC color spacing? Is its color decoder that sophisticated?

Supposedly this makes a world of difference.

Nightanole

04-03-05, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by Loner
Hmm, it sounds like you are experiencing tearing. When you said "As if a small part of the screen is updated at a diff time as another part", it sounds as if the screen is redrawing a new frame halfway through drawing the previous one. Since the windows desktop doesn't refresh on vertical blank, this kind of thing can happen. At least, that's what it sounds like from your description. A good way to see if it is the same type of thing, bring up a window of some sort. Either My Computer, or notepad, or something. Just make sure it isn't full screen. Shake the window around your screen quickly with your mouse, and you'll notice the left and right edges 'tearing'. If this is what you see in your movies, then it might be possible to fix this. What are you using for viewing dvds? If it's either PowerDVD or WinDVD there is an option in the settings to use Hardware Acceleration. Trying playing with those. On my system with PowerDVD, having Hardware Acceleration off gives me tearing, HA on makes it go away. On a friends system, either option gives him tearing. But WinDVD, with HA on makes it go away. On my system, WinDVD doesn't have tearing in either mode.

I am not 100% sure this is what you are seeing, but if it is, it might be worth giving these settings a try!

Don

That sounds about right. It does this on avi's too, but its not as bad. Im using dscaler. For avi its ffdshow.

Loner

04-03-05, 08:46 PM

Originally posted by Nightanole
That sounds about right. It does this on avi's too, but its not as bad. Im using dscaler. For avi its ffdshow.

Hmm, if it is a tearing issue, then I guess you just have to find a setting that works right. Since you are using dscaler and ffdshow, I assume you are using zoomplayer? If so, have you tried the different video renderers? Either Overlay Mixer, VMR9 or VMR7 if you have it? Maybe one of those might make a difference. For my friend, he is happy enough with PowerDVD, even though he complains about the tearing, but for myself, zoom and dscaler are the way I would go. I haven't noticed any tearing with this setup, but my buddy would find ZP overwhelming. I am using VMR9 Windowed right now, just because I guess, although I don't watch enough movies to say there is no tearing. My projector is all apart right now, so I just use an old dvd player until I get my H31.

Don

mystery

04-03-05, 09:48 PM

I FINALLY SAW THE H31 THIS AFTERNOON/EVENING!! :)

My new buddy 'Mak' here in town was gracious enough to put up with me for a few hours today and we made the most of it.

Listen up everyone...this thing really rocks!!

Mak has a 110" diagonal screen professionally painted on his wall. His sound system is to die for and drool over. My rear end is still shaking and vibrating. :D

His H31 is 6" down from his ceiling to his lens center and his ceiling is 7'9".
The offset works out to about 12". He has had to slightly tilt the pj up in order to accommodate the placement of his screen but has only had to use 4 clicks on the keystoning and believe you me, THERE WAS NO DISCERNIBLE OR PERCEIVABLE DIFFERENCE IN PICTURE QUALITY!! We tried to see a difference by level ling off the projector and removing the keystone but it was the same perceivably to both of us so we agreed that he should just leave the pj tilted and the keystone at 4.

HALLELUJAH!!!

We tested zooming in to make the image smaller and the good news is that the image approached what it will be at the size of my 92" screen while rising up the wall. So the moral of the story is, the closer to your screen the H31 is, and the smaller your screen is, the less offset there will be.

We tested 'The Incredibles, 'Master and Commander' for shadow detail and black levels, 'Clockwise' for 1.66: aspect ratio, 'Troy' for cinematic beauty and 'Spiderman' for color.

I believe that the H31 possibly needs a little assistance for a screen that large at 110". I would go with a Silverstar or High Power but make no mistake. This projector CAN be used with screens this large. I just prefer a TV like image. Today, I saw a theater like image that was very pleasing. We should all be so lucky as to experience such quality at the local cinema!

It's quiet and we used it in econo mode. I saw not one rainbow!!

Brightness uniformity and color saturation seemed very good. There was no bowing to the image in any way.

For those of you with lots of 4:3 DVDs, you're in for a pleasant surprise. The 1.66:1 aspect ratio is absolutely phenomenal. There is only the very slightest of cropping on the right and left sides. Certainly not enough to warrant any type of additional masking but for the very most anal among us. :) What this mode does is crop some of the image at the top and bottom so as to give what appears as a 16:9 aspect ratio. We did carefully check this out and you do lose a fair bit of information top and bottom in order to accomplish this but it is for the most part extraneous data and we found ourselves going from scene to scene while watching a 4:3 'Spiderman' disc, becoming involved in the glorious presentation and more than once reminding each other almost to the point of pinching one another that we weren't dreaming that this was a 4:3 disc and not a native 16:9. This mode may and I say may produce a grain to the image but we couldn't say with certainty because it also seemed to be a factor in the discs pressing. We tried a native 1.66:1 'Clockwise' and it showed extremely well with the same slight pixel loss at each side but this time no cropping top or bottom because it's a native 1.66:1.

Digital lens shift...WOW!!! This is one cool feature no matter what Projector Central says. We shifted the image up and down without any discernible loss of pixels and this we did with both 2.35:1 and 1.85:1.

The black bars on widescreen material are really quite black. I would still utilize masking though.

Shadow detail in 'Master and Commander' was very good indeed. No sense of 'Gee, I wonder what I should be seeing there?". Blacks are stupendous and the contrast ratio is so satisfying that this pj could be a keeper for a long time.

The remote is really nice and lights up well with reddish backlit buttons. The menus system is sharp, well thought out, colorful and intuitive. Just like me! :D :D

This is for sure a step up from the X1 and I believe well worth the upgrade.

The H31 itself is small, lightweight and sexy with a small footprint. It's unbelievable how such beauty can emanate from such a little thing.

We tried to do DVI-D from my LG7832 upconverting player but it was a no go. Just refused to do anything except for lock-up, freeze, and no amount of re-booting would correct the problem. We did upconvert to 720p and 1080i over component but did not calibrate with AVIA and although the images were definitely brighter than Mak's Panasonic rp56, they were not as good in really any other way. I suspect a lot of that had to do with the need to calibrate.

Alas, the really only negative to the entire endeavor was that I myself tended to notice orangey reds on 'Spiderman'. I seem to be more familiar with what the colors should be like on this film and was bothered by this issue whereas Mak didn't seem to notice or mind.

We both agreed that if you are familiar with a DVD, then the likelihood that your reds may be slightly on the orange side increases. Please understand that Mak has not had this projector very long and has only done the most minimal of calibration and tweaking. The RGB contrast and brightness settings were at OTB factory levels (0). I am confident that this issue can be corrected to at least some satisfaction with some fiddling around with the controls.

This shouldn't be a deal killer. There is far, far too much going for this little gem to discard it because a certain color seems a little off. I'd rather have stratospheric black levels and contrast with a slight color push than perfect colors and washed out shadows.

At this price, we can't expect perfection. For my money, this H31 comes as close as we're going to get given what's available to us right now.

Thanks Mak for allowing me to meet you in person and share a few moments with you and your Optoma H31. I can hardly wait to get mine this week!

Hope this has been of some use and help. Apologies for the length. I wanted to be thorough.

Wayne

Loner

04-03-05, 10:12 PM

Nice review, Wayne! It seems that people are consistently happy with this pj! I can't wait to have a look at one! Who knows, maybe I'll be looking at my very own someday soon!

Zipplemeyer

04-03-05, 10:48 PM

Wayne your review was spot on in terms of my experience with this projector. Great contrast, no rainbows, sde lesser than Infocus 4805 on a 92" screen. Orangey reds however may be a small problem for some. Watch the incredibles on a crt and then do the same on the Optoma and you will notice a marked difference in the redness of the new power suits, they are more orange on the Optoma. Some people may not care but it bugged me a little. That niggle aside the picture from this unit is killer, it's too bad I'm very sd sensitive.

Moe

mystery

04-03-05, 11:01 PM

Moe,

Thanks for reminding me about SDE. I forgot to mention that it wasn't a factor for me except when pulling up the menu and then I saw it but actually kind of appreciated it because it indicated that the focus ring was adjusted correctly. At 15' back from a 110" diagonal screen I didn't see any SDE on any images produced by the DVD players. Only on the menus on the H31 itself was it evident and who cares about that!

Awesome projector. My X1 also threw a terrific picture for the price paid but the H31 is a worthy upgrade in my opinion. I can't wait to hook this thing up to my HTPC/High Power screen combo and then we'll really see some fireworks!

Wayne

p.s. Guitarman,

Is my check in the mail? :D :D

HiHoStevo

04-03-05, 11:16 PM

Wayne...............

Did you see how close you could get to the 110" image before you saw any screen door?

What is the distance from lens to screen?

What was the offset distance with the projector leveled?

I believe Tom posted information on correcting a color push in the begining of this thread... not sure what color though... it sounded like Mak had not tried that correction....

jedi35

04-03-05, 11:43 PM

Hey Wayne,
I'm glad you finally had a look at the H31. I knew that you'd love it. So now, do you see what I mean about the lack levels? I don't think that black curtains closeby present any problems whatsoever. Dude, sorry to hear that you didn't get your upconverting dvd player to do anything over dvi. Do you think that a firmware upgrade would fix this? I'd bet money that you would have been impressed with the 720p image over dvi. Are there others out there who've had trouble with your player?

Tom posted info to help me with my red push problems on component. He did not mention how to correct orangy reds. The responses that I got from others did acknowledge the problem but stated that it might be inherent in pjs with this chip. We might have to live with it. I'd like to think, as do you, that it can be minimized.

Lenny,
Man, I love the look of your theater. I would love to have something like that someday. A couple of questions. I do see where your side speakers are housed. But you mentioned that you had a 7.1 sound system, which means 2 rear speakers. Where are they? Also, is the color scheme correct in your rendering? If so, I'm a bit concerned that your light carpet might be reflecting some light back onto the screen, causing you to lose some color intensity, as well as contrast and black level. You might want to think about further masking, and/or a dark rug on the floor under the screen. One final thing...what color is the ceiling? If it's bright, you might need more dark fabric for the "shadowbox" effect. I had no idea how much the reflections from bright surfaces could affect the image until I got rid of mine. Yes, the picture from the H31 was great before, but afterwards it really became unbelieveable.

mystery

04-03-05, 11:56 PM

Steve,

Our heads were directly under the lens at 15' from the screen.

Unfortunately, I didn't think to walk up to the screen to check on SDE. I figured that if it wasn't an issue at that distance for a 110" screen then in my own home, 13' to a 92" screen would be comparable. I can tell you this if it's any help at all; I used to see far more SDE on my X1.

We noticed that when we leveled the projector, the offset seemed to stay constant. We measured about 11 to 13 inches if I remember correctly, lens center to top of screen. I believe that Mak measured 17 inches from ceiling to screen top making that 11 inches from lens center to screen top in addition to a 6 inch drop from the ceiling to the projector. We did level the projector which caused a need for the screen to be lowered in order to house the image. This screen is fixed but we were able to see the overscan below the bottom of the screen and it appeared to be comparable to the amount of drop which it took to level the projector.

Don't forget, you can shift the image up or down if you need to without picture degradation. At least we couldn't discern any. And keystoning is nothing to be afraid of on this projector if you need to use it. Remember, Tom had to use keystoning on his H30 and couldn't see any difference either.

Thanks for the heads up on the color push issue. I'll look for it.

Sounds like you're still contemplating this H31. I can tell you this, although I'm not coming from a BenQ 8700 perspective as you are, I have seen $10,000.00 Runco DLP projectors at high end video stores and this H31 would make anyone curse themselves for spending that kind of money.

I have also seen the Toshiba MT200 which is based on the same chip as the 4805 and the H31 but has a 5x color wheel. I think that this class of projector has hit a sweet spot in the market. I would certainly encourage you to pick one up as your second projector for your other home. You may see some SDE and you may have offset problems but I too was worried about these things and after today, no more worries. After all, you wouldn't want it to perform as well as your 8700 would you? :)

Wayne

mystery

04-04-05, 12:10 AM

Jedi,

Yes, you weren't kidding about this little marvel.

I'm not worried about the LG upconverting player. It was terrific until I discovered what everyone was raving about pertaining to HTPCs. I've never looked back and only use this player to feed DVDs to my TV.

If I decide to return to a stand alone player, I think I may try the Panasonic S97. But if the images from the computer to the H31 are at least equal to what I used to get with the X1, my money won't be spent on any player.

I can hardly wait to upconvert over DVI-D using my HTPC. So I'm not worried about the LG.

Do you or anyone else remember a few years ago the orangey reds that Hitachi CRT RPTVs would exhibit? Yet it didn't stop me from buying a 43" and a 53" Hitachi even knowing about that problem. I think the same thing will happen here with the Optoma H31. I haven't seen a post by anyone yet who feels that this is a deal breaker.

I agree with you that we can probably tweak enough of it out to satisfy us. Like you say we might have to 'suffer' in one way but prosper in most other ways. If it's inherent, so be it. I can live with it. I can't afford to pay the exorbitant fees that the higher end projectors command and really as a matter of principle, probably wouldn't spend that kind of money even if I had it.

Wayne

therealgeno

04-04-05, 12:21 AM

Originally posted by Nightanole
XP sp2

9800np

dvi-d dual

drivers ive tryed 4.7 and 5.2

I think what i am experiencing is macro blocking. As if a small part of the screen is updated at a diff time as another part.

You are definitely experiencing tearing. Are you using overlay or vmr9? Have you enabled v-sync within the D3D settings on your video card? It is usually called "wait for display refresh" or "wait for vertical refresh." Use the slider to select "always on." This should take care of it.

Also, I have found that certain ffdshow settings will cause tearing if set too high. Resize, for example. Do you still get tearing without ffdshow?

MAK

04-04-05, 10:02 AM

Excellent overview of our H31 experience Mystery. Some additional points that I feel merit further comment.

SDE: To date I have watched about 15 movies or so and with my 110" diagonal screen sitting 15' away (1.87X screen width) I can occasionally see screen door. Ideally, either my screen should be a 106" diagonal or I should be sitting back another foot. But I am not gonna do that as I am extremely happy as is.

Orangy Reds: Wayne (MYstery) and I played around a little with RGB contrasts and could see improvements in green and somewhat to the Red. I am sure with more tweaking using Tom's guidelines, the color balance can be markedly improved. This I am certainly gonna try. Though, again, I am happy as is.

Panny RP56 Vs. Zenith: As Wayne mentioned, the image with the Zenith unit was somewhat brighter, but we certainly felt it was at the expense of contrast and black levels; tweaking to improve contrast will reduce brightness to probably similar levels as the RP56. I thought I saw more detail (in Elastica's hair during the initial rooftop dusk sequence) through the RP56. Finally I thought that upconversion to 720P or 1080i through component connection only made the picture grainier. We both would have loved to see DVI in action, but the player locked up.

Brightness: Coming from a highpower screen, Wayne thought the image could be brighter. But I feel that right now I have an ideal balance between contrast and brightness and will not give up contrast and black levels in favour of a slightly brighter image. If the image can be made brighter while keeping the contrast, I am all for it.

The acid test of brightness was when I had 10 non-videophile relatives crammed into my HT not too long ago. over the weekend we watched about 10 movies or so. And you know how an average joe is: crank up that brightness! max out that color! Guess what, not a single person wanted a brighter image. The most frequent comments. "this is better than going out to movies", "the picture is much nicer than what I see at the local cinema".

Rest of the comments were about the sound, so I won't bother you with those.

Final Verdict: The best big picture I have seen. Going by memory alone, HD2+ stuff at a local high-end dealership (with full calibration and setup) did not look better than what I have at home. What are you waiting for?