"what is the recommended use of the zoom? Minimum? Maximum? Middle of the road? Here�s what I�m thinking:"

Looks to me you got it figured out. Find a stud location where you'll have some leeway to zoom in or out some. You won't lose any brightness power.

Quick question...if I have a shelf on my back wall where I can mount the H31 upside down, do I need to worry about how high the pj is in relation to the screen? 100" diagonal screen hanging from a 9 foot ceiling, 15 feet from the pj which would be mounted 7 feet high on the back wall. The high throw concerned me some...but is that more of an issue for a table mount? I'm assuming by some comments I've read that I will have to mount it upside down on the shelf, correct?

Thanks.

chad4bama,

Looks like at 15' the smallest image you can project is 103" diagonal

At 15' back from the screen, you will have a drop of 54" from projector to centre of screen (using numbers from projectorcentral's review), this would mean the top of the screen would be 29" (~2.5 ft) below the projector. so it might be a bit low for you with keystoning.

I am still learning this stuff, so someone correct me if I am wrong.

Cheers!

The throw stays the same. You're close at being ok. You may need to go a little higher with the PJ, to find the spot where the lens can be level for no keystoning.

Okay guys, after months of reading about the Infocus SP4805 I come across this Optoma unit. Anyone done a side by side comparison of these two units that would care to share your experience? Any big advantages with the Optoma over the Infocus unit?

Read the previous 100 pages to find the answer. :D

Originally posted by dropzone7
Okay guys, after months of reading about the Infocus SP4805 I come across this Optoma unit. Anyone done a side by side comparison of these two units that would care to share your experience? Any big advantages with the Optoma over the Infocus unit?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=532141

There's also a few side-by-side compares earlier on in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=5325839&highlight=4805#post5325839

Originally posted by albo75
Read the previous 100 pages to find the answer.

Um yeah. Thanks...

Originally posted by potus
Yeah, that screen is probably too big for your room. I think an 80" or so might be better. Maybe you can ask VA if they can send you a smaller screen? I know they make em smaller, since someone here reported getting a smaller one by mistake. Don't be too worried about the "small" screen. As long as your viewing distance is ~2x it doesn't really matter what the physical dimension is. You really don't want to sit much closer than 2x (maybe 1.7x) And the smaller screen has some advantages. You get a "plasma-like" experience, and better ambient-light performance.

Another option is to mask the 100" screen down to 80. A "true" 80" screen would obviously be more practical.

I totally agree with this. My throw distance is 12'3" and I'm using a 106" and it seems to be at the upper limit of screen size for the room and the pj. My zoom is maxed out as well. I figured I would eventually move somewhere else and have a bigger room with larger throw distance. Video games on it are a lot of fun though.

Originally posted by dropzone7
Okay guys, after months of reading about the Infocus SP4805 I come across this Optoma unit. Anyone done a side by side comparison of these two units that would care to share your experience? Any big advantages with the Optoma over the Infocus unit?

Hey Dropzone, check out these 2 threads:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=520007

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=535293

I just used the search function. The first one is prolly more what you are looking for. Good luck.

chad4bama,

I think you might be a little confused about the basics of projector image throws, if so, just a little refresher>

When a projector is sitting on a table, right side up, the image thrown will always be UP, above the projector lens plane.. When squared with a screen/wall, etc, the image on projectors with a built in offset will be above this lens centerline. How much above varies dependent on the distance to the screen, size of image and amount of built in offset. A projector with NO offset will always have the bottom of the image in-line (same plane) with the lens center of the projector no matter the distance or image size (i.e. Lens of projector 20" off floor, bottom of picture screen will be 20" off floor). So even though a projector might be built with zero offset, the image is still projected above the projector plane, with the bottom of the image even with the projector lens center. Not many projectors have zero offset, but the Toshiba MT700 is one projector with zero offset that comes to mind.

A projector with built in offset will project the image above the lens centerline (i.e table mount projector 20" off floor, bottom of screen image maybe 25" to 30" plus off floor dependent on variables).

Now, when you ceiling mount a projector, (or shelf mount), if you keep the projector upright like table mount, the image will project on the ceiling most likely. Hence, the reason you flip the projector upside down to take advantage of the up-throw of the image, which will now project downwards. Of course this image is now upside down, but all these projectors allow to flip the image back upright. The throw and/or offset (if there is any) stays the same. You are only flipping the image within the same built in throw of the projector.

I hope this clears any confusion up.

Fleaman

Originally posted by potus
Yeah, that screen is probably too big for your room. I think an 80" or so might be better. Maybe you can ask VA if they can send you a smaller screen?
Well I called this afternoon with regards to switching the screen, but because the unit already shipped, they couldn't do it.
I guess I'll have to experiment with the 100" screen and see what happens. Masking sounds like an interesting solution.

I am interested in getting this projector, but I wanted to use it with a HTPC.
Has anyone successfully got it working (1:1 pixel mapping)?
I prefer not to have to purchase a separate dvd player.
Is it worth getting the projector if an HTPC is going to be used?

Dan

Hi All,
I am trying to get correct measurements to build my screen. What is the best way to go about it. I am going with 100" dia and have paused an image with appropriate dimensions on the wall. As I am measuring I am noticing a small (about 1/2" thickness) black boarder around the outer edge of the entire projected image. It is very faint, but definitely there. What is this? has anyone noticed this? Am I setting my pj wrong? And no I do not mean the top and bottom black bars for ws.

It's nothing, call it a border frame. All the projectors I've had have this. I figure it's there for when you use a wall. Makes for a frame type look.

How to calibrate HDTV.

I am never up when HDNET has the calibration program, so I had a hard time calibrating my HD signal from Dish. My 811 receiver has two inputs so I hooked my dvd player up to my Dish 811, and using the Avia disc, sent to the 811, which was up converted to 1080i and sent to the H31 by way of the DVI cable, I went to work. Now doing this adds a lot of noise to the picture, but I was able to get my contrast/Brightness set with this, and also confirm that the DVI had the Blue and Green set near perfect, and only needed small drops in the red to get it right. I am really happy with how this turned out.

berserker37
You might want to consider a home theater 'prototype'

We 'prototyped' this weekend, trying 3 different setups, throw distances, screen height, speaker locations etc.

Then we watched a whole movie with each setup.

My wife is now on board, and is willing to have the pj in a less hidden location, but one with the best experience.

Same with the speakers. She now wants correct height, wants us to use stands over wall mounts, to get better sound.

Enjoy your H31
- j

Originally posted by fleaman
chad4bama,

I think you might be a little confused about the basics of projector image throws, if so, just a little refresher>

When a projector is sitting on a table, right side up, the image thrown will always be UP, above the projector lens plane.. When squared with a screen/wall, etc, the image on projectors with a built in offset will be above this lens centerline. How much above varies dependent on the distance to the screen, size of image and amount of built in offset. A projector with NO offset will always have the bottom of the image in-line (same plane) with the lens center of the projector no matter the distance or image size (i.e. Lens of projector 20" off floor, bottom of picture screen will be 20" off floor). So even though a projector might be built with zero offset, the image is still projected above the projector plane, with the bottom of the image even with the projector lens center. Not many projectors have zero offset, but the Toshiba MT700 is one projector with zero offset that comes to mind.

A projector with built in offset will project the image above the lens centerline (i.e table mount projector 20" off floor, bottom of screen image maybe 25" to 30" plus off floor dependent on variables).

Now, when you ceiling mount a projector, (or shelf mount), if you keep the projector upright like table mount, the image will project on the ceiling most likely. Hence, the reason you flip the projector upside down to take advantage of the up-throw of the image, which will now project downwards. Of course this image is now upside down, but all these projectors allow to flip the image back upright. The throw and/or offset (if there is any) stays the same. You are only flipping the image within the same built in throw of the projector.

I hope this clears any confusion up.

Fleaman

Thanks for the info. Do you feel that the H31, if shelf mounted upside down in my configuration, would do the trick? 100" diagonal screen hanging from a 9 foot ceiling 15.5 feet from the pj, which will be mounted 7 feet up the back wall?

Originally posted by chad4bama
Thanks for the info. Do you feel that the H31, if shelf mounted upside down in my configuration, would do the trick? 100" diagonal screen hanging from a 9 foot ceiling 15.5 feet from the pj, which will be mounted 7 feet up the back wall?

In this configuration the top edge of your image will be 4 feet down from the ceiling and the bottom of the image will be about 1 foot above the floor.

I suggest you move the shelf up another foot.

Originally posted by guitarman
It's nothing, call it a border frame. All the projectors I've had have this. I figure it's there for when you use a wall. Makes for a frame type look.
Thanks Tom.

Last night I played around some more and came up with another nice setting. I switched between PC gamma 3 and went to the Graphics Gamma 4. The colors are a little richer and defined, but the contrast was a little lower so I bumped up the contrast about 5 or 6 points and looked real nice. Watched Gladiator, the dark scenes were nice and detailed and the arena scenes are amazing...

I moved my center speaker out of the way and put half the picture on the off white wall and half the on the M2500 screen. I just wanted to see what the difference was. The picture on the screen is far better then I thought it would be. Much clearer and nicer colors, and the black levels are maybe 1% or 2% brighter on the M2500 screen, almost unnoticable to my wifes eye. I'm not seeing as many rainbows as I did the first night I put the screen up so I'm gonna give it a couple of weeks...

What size is the lens on the h31 ? (if I wanted to put a nd lens filter or another kind on it.) jeff

2 3/4" the outer rim.

"Last night I played around some more and came up with another nice setting. I switched between PC gamma 3 and went to the Graphics Gamma 4."

I'll check it out. These gamma options sure opened up a whole new ball game.

is the h31 threaded on the inside of the lens to accept a certain mm lens filter? I guess thats what i am looking for a mm size- thanks jeff

Originally posted by HiHoStevo
In this configuration the top edge of your image will be 4 feet down from the ceiling and the bottom of the image will be about 1 foot above the floor.

I suggest you move the shelf up another foot.


Do you feel the 4805 would require the same shelf adjustment? Would a pj with lens shift like the Z-2 make all this a moot point? If so, any recommendations on a pj with lens shift that's a little brighter than the Z-2?

Thanks.

Chad........

the Z2 will suck big time compared to either the 4805 or H31! I don't mean to be rude, but it just will.

The offset on the 4805 is slightly less than the H31.

I have been reading these threads for quite a while and I think the general consensus is that while the 4805 and H31 are both terrific projectors on their own.... and outstanding once you throw in the price, that the H31 has a slight edge in that you can sit "slightly" closer without seeing any pixels or the SDE that is the lines between the pixels. Optoma is also known for "punchy" colors that can make the image quite vibrant.

Point taken on the Z-2.

I just wish the 4805 or the H31 had lens shift to make my life easier. Now I'm going to wait to hear about this Infocus X3...though I'm positive it won't have lense shift either.

Originally posted by chad4bama
Point taken on the Z-2.

I just wish the 4805 or the H31 had lens shift to make my life easier. Now I'm going to wait to hear about this Infocus X3...though I'm positive it won't have lense shift either.

The X3 will probably have a 2x color wheel = more rainbows.

X3 is not native widescreen.

X3 is really designed as a presentation projector, like the X1 was. Not optimized for HT like the 4805 is.

You really need to use a DLP projector in HT for contrast reasons. But there is no cheap DLP projector with true lens shift.

I'm not sure what you're looking for, but it sounds like you don't want a projector with much offset, if any. In that case, look into the Toshiba MT700, it has zero offset. So, when ceiling mounted (or upside down on shelf), the top of your screen image will be exactly even with your lens center height.

Would that work for you?

Fleaman

Sounds like something I should check out Fleaman. Thanks.

Chad, I would second Fleaman's suggestion............

The cheapest DLP with lens shift that I am familiar with is the Optoma H77 which is approx 4 times the price of the H31.

However the Toshiba MT-700/BenQ7700 twins have a zero offset that would work quite well with your shelf idea.

The only issue with these projectors is that the smallest image you can throw from 15.5' is 115" diag.

Tom/Guitarman..........

Has extensive experience with all of the Optoma projectors... and with the H31 I remember Tom saying that you could use some tilt on the projector without having any discernible impact on the PQ. So if you need to stay at a 100" screen, and the H31 fits your budget better, then I would think about mounting the H31 on the shelf upside down and using some different sized "feet" to give the projector a slight angle up. This will allow you to put the image where you want it on the wall... just don't go overboard with the tilt as then you will wind up using too much keystone to correct the image.

I can adjust the throw distance to about 14.5 feet. I'm going to look into it. I may try the H31 and see how it works and what I can work with if I can buy it from a retailer who allows for easy returns. Thanks for all the advice.

hi chad......... looks like I was editing the post while you were answering.. consider the tilt possibility.

So what do you guys think of the Audioholics review of the H31 that was posted today? Looks promising for those of us sitting on the fence. Thanks for the links to previous threads on comparisons of the H31 and the SP4805 which I'm looking at also. The Audioholics review has me seriously thinking about the H31 now. I am currently at 15' with my ceiling mounting of my SP4800 and I have my zoom maxed out so with the throw of the H31 I believe I could leave it at my 15' mounting distance and not use as much zoom. That alone might give me a better image. I don't want to have to change my screen size (54"x96") so the H31 looks attractive in that respect. The only thing I'm concerned about at this point is whether the DVI image which has been lauded so much would hold up to the 15' cable length I need. Anybody using the H31 with a DVI cable of 15' or longer?

Originally posted by jeffropaige
is the h31 threaded on the inside of the lens to accept a certain mm lens filter? I guess thats what i am looking for a mm size- thanks jeff

No threads, you should probably go cheaper and get a 55mm small size lens. Figure a way to angle it so to leave some ventilation. Allot of companies don't recommend sealing off the front lens do to heat issues.

Originally posted by dropzone7
The only thing I'm concerned about at this point is whether the DVI image which has been lauded so much would hold up to the 15' cable length I need. Anybody using the H31 with a DVI cable of 15' or longer?

DVI cable length capability seems to be greatly affected by the dvd player being used. Guitarman mentioned that the Bravo's seem to have a weak dvi out and wouldn't work with a 15' dvi cable, but other dvi dvd players may not have a problem with a 30' run.

Fleaman

Word around here is 15' shouldn't be a problem. I will need to order a 5 meter soon. Then again I think the H31 wouldn't be the problem side it would be the source side like DVD player having a weak output signal. But a good quality cable would be just fine.

***I must have posted the same time as Fleaman :D

Well after reading until my head hurt for weeks and weeks.. I ordered the Optoma H31 bundle that is offereing the 100" screen. I have a few questions and hope i can get some answers from you experts : )

I will have the projector ceiling mounted with a "home made" mount. The Ceiling is exactly 7' high and i will be able to get the projector lens within about 6" from the ceiling i'm hoping..
The throw distance from the screen will be right at the recommended minimum of 12' 6" to 13'.

1st question.. how low on my wall will the picture be with this setup?

2nd question.. being new to Projectors.. Until i can get a Progressive Scan DVD player, i plan on using the component out on my cable box using home made RG-6 cables running about 20' or so to the projector.

Hopefully b4 long i can purchase a decent progressive DVD player and a 5.1 or 6.1 surround RX

3rd question.. can someone PLEASE recommend a sub $150.00 decent DVD player that will work well with the H31.

I plan on using Component out on my DVD player and Cable Box into the surround receiver i get and then use the component pass through from the reveiver to the projector..

any comments or suggestions?? Will this give me the best picture for DVD and my Cable ?

THANKS!! Love this forum!!

dropzone,

I use a 50' Ultralink Pro DVI-D cable from my HTPC and it works flawlessly. No sparklies, drop-outs, or anything bad at all. Just a pristine, clear, crisp image.

Wayne

Originally posted by fleaman
DVI cable length capability seems to be greatly affected by the dvd player being used. Guitarman mentioned that the Bravo's seem to have a weak dvi out and wouldn't work with a 15' dvi cable, but other dvi dvd players may not have a problem with a 30' run.

Fleaman

Yeah it happened again, I forgot about the D2 with the H31 and my 30' cheese cable :) I got no picture. Switched over to the Toshiba SD5907 and not a hint of a problem. Image looked great in 480p or 720p, there's even a 1024X768 res. I have to say it again this player got bad reviews but shouldn't have.

It has zero y/c delay
Zero pixel cropping
Good signal strength

But get this the dopey Zoran deinterlacer works very good. It did a great job on the end of chap 12 in gladiator, the fly over Rome rooftops pan scene. Also at the opening in Panic Room I noticed a shimmer on two buildings with the Bravo but no so with the Tosh. Wierd the cheap little thing is good. :)

I should add I'd still prefer the Bravo D2 working. Just for the custom res match up. Maybe I should get a better cable.

Originally posted by mystery
dropzone,

I use a 50' Ultralink Pro DVI-D cable from my HTPC and it works flawlessly. No sparklies, drop-outs, or anything bad at all. Just a pristine, clear, crisp image.

Wayne

Thanks, that's good to know. However, HTPC still scares me and what I will probably be using is my Zenith DVB-318 upscaling player. I hope it has the signal strength required. I have never run it with anything but component but if I get the H31 I would like to use DVI.

Hi Guys!

Sincere thanks to everybody for sharing valuable (esp. to a pj newbe) information and to Fleaman for answering my PM.

I am very concerned about SDE. I wanted to buy Panny 42" ED plasma 2 years ago, but I didn't due to its SDE.

With a "table-top" mount, I could only project 60" image.
With a "back-wall" mount, the image would be 80" or larger.

My viewing distance is fixed and only 11', which gives 1.9 ratio with 80" image.

Q1: Would the 60" image be large enough to be enjoyable?
My eye glasses make everything look smaller, so that 60" image would appear to be more like 56".

Q2: Will I be able to see pixels with 80" image from 11'?

Thanks!

Mike

I have a 5 meter dvi cable that has worked flawlessly with my Sammy 931 dvd player, Zenith 318 dvd player, Sammy T 165 OTA tuner, Charter hd cable box, and VOOM stb. All of them produced stunning images over dvi, better than component.

Tom,
Yes, I tried the PC Gamma 3 and did notice a big jump in contrast. I was watching NASCAR night racing on HDNet at the time. While I loved the brighter whites, and darker blacks, I did notice that the whites were burned in a bit too much, and Film revealed more details in the whites. Perhaps I need to play with the PC settings a bit. This could be a good setting for sports. The black night sky was amazing!! I'll look forward to trying the other suggested Gammas as well.

I leveled my pj slightly more than my previous post. Now, the pj is almost level. I can't stress enough how much the image quality improved. Guys, if you can help it, do a setup where the pj lens is as perpindicular to the screen as possible. You'll get brighter whites, and darker blacks, all with the best detail. I do realize that setup needs will limit this.


IFLYHi,
What is you second question?

Mike,
At 1.9, SDE should not be a big factor. I'd go for the larger 80" image. I'm currently doing an 84" diagonal, and I'm back about 13'. I only see SDE every now and then.

Originally posted by jedi35
I have a 5 meter dvi cable that has worked flawlessly with my Sammy 931 dvd player, Zenith 318 dvd player, Sammy T 165 OTA tuner, Charter hd cable box, and VOOM stb. All of them produced stunning images over dvi, better than component.

Tom,
Yes, I tried the PC Gamma 3 and did notice a big jump in contrast. I was watching NASCAR night racing on HDNet at the time. While I loved the brighter whites, and darker blacks, I did notice that the whites were burned in a bit too much, and Film revealed more details in the whites. Perhaps I need to play with the PC settings a bit. This could be a good setting for sports. The black night sky was amazing!! I'll look forward to trying the other suggested Gammas as well.

I leveled my pj slightly more than my previous post. Now, the pj is almost level. I can't stress enough how much the image quality improved. Guys, if you can help it, do a setup where the pj lens is as perpindicular to the screen as possible. You'll get brighter whites, and darker blacks, all with the best detail. I do realize that setup needs will limit this.


IFLYHi,
What is you second question?


Thanks jedi35! Looks like my Zenith 318 wont be a problem then since you have had good results.

Thank you jedi35.

The viewing ratio would get better (2.0) if I could mount the pj so the projection distance is the same as the viewing distance (11').

How could I mount the pj 2' off the wall?

Wall mounts are extremely difficult to find and the arm is usually pretty short. Could I somehow retrofit a pivoting LCD mount?

Thanks.

Mike

thanks for the info guitarman. I saw the infocus and actually demoed one for a couple of days. The h31 as well but for only a day(freinds untweaked). I thought the contrast ratio on the 4805 wasnt very good, not near the 1:2000. But the h31 seemed better maybe closer to being truer to its 1:3000 it states. Was my mind playing tricks on me or what? They both use the same dlp chip but the h31 looked better. Tom have you had them side by side? This has probably been discussed but I was thinking of picking up the h31.Also the 4805 had green sparkles in the black (like on space scences in starwars) what was that rainbows? thanks in advance for your help. jeff

Originally posted by MikeSer
Hi Guys!

Sincere thanks to everybody for sharing valuable (esp. to a pj newbe) information and to Fleaman for answering my PM.

I am very concerned about SDE. I wanted to buy Panny 42" ED plasma 2 years ago, but I didn't due to its SDE.

With a "table-top" mount, I could only project 60" image.
With a "back-wall" mount, the image would be 80" or larger.

My viewing distance is fixed and only 11', which gives 1.9 ratio with 80" image.

Q1: Would the 60" image be large enough to be enjoyable?
My eye glasses make everything look smaller, so that 60" image would appear to be more like 56".

Q2: Will I be able to see pixels with 80" image from 11'?

Thanks!

Mike
I didn't know plasmas had any SDE issues??? I thought SDE are only issues with pj?

I am sitting 14' back from a 100" diagonal (about 1.9x ratio) and I do see SDE. It doesn't bother me too much... but none-the-less it is there. I guess that is another advantage why some ppl buy the higher res ones like AE700 or the Z3... you can sit closer without SDE problems.

ultraman206

I didn't know plasmas had any SDE issues??? I thought SDE are only issues with pj?

The 42" ED (Extended Definition) "plasmas" have only 854 x 480 pixels.
The fill ratio is smaller than on a DLP chip, but I don't know the exact value.

I think, most people don't see SDE, because they sit farther than 2 times the picture width.

Thanks for the info. Now, I know I will see SDE at 1.9...

Mike

Originally posted by IFLYHi
Well after reading until my head hurt for weeks and weeks.. I ordered the Optoma H31 bundle that is offereing the 100" screen. I have a few questions and hope i can get some answers from you experts : )

I will have the projector ceiling mounted with a "home made" mount. The Ceiling is exactly 7' high and i will be able to get the projector lens within about 6" from the ceiling i'm hoping..
The throw distance from the screen will be right at the recommended minimum of 12' 6" to 13'.

1st question.. how low on my wall will the picture be with this setup?

Answer:
At 12'6" your screen will hang 19.5" from the ceiling. leaving only 15" from the floor to bottom of screen for a 100" screen.
At 13' your screen will be even lower at 20.8" from the ceiling leaving only 13" from the floor. This is assuming a 6" drop from a 7' ceiling and you are measuring from your lens to the screen for your distance. I used the Formula as given in Optoma manual: Offset = Length x tan(7.42 degrees).
Originally posted by IFLYHi
2nd question.. being new to Projectors.. Until i can get a Progressive Scan DVD player, i plan on using the component out on my cable box using home made RG-6 cables running about 20' or so to the projector.

Hopefully b4 long i can purchase a decent progressive DVD player and a 5.1 or 6.1 surround RX

(since I didn't see a question... it will be reverse :D )
Question:
Will it be fine to use 20' component cables homemade from RG-6 cables for cable box until i get a DVD player, yes?
Originally posted by IFLYHi
3rd question.. can someone PLEASE recommend a sub $150.00 decent DVD player that will work well with the H31.

I plan on using Component out on my DVD player and Cable Box into the surround receiver i get and then use the component pass through from the reveiver to the projector..

any comments or suggestions?? Will this give me the best picture for DVD and my Cable ?

THANKS!! Love this forum!!
Answer:
There are a lot of DVD players out there... are you limiting yourself to only components by stating "I plan on using Component out on my DVD player" There are alot of HDMI/DVI players out there that will give a better pic vs. component ones. A lot of ppl on here seem to have good luck with the Zenith 318 or the bravo D2. they are both upconverting DVI players that I think are in your price range. You will have to buy a DVI cable though as I don't think you can make a homemade one like the component cables.

Anyways, you will definitely enjoy your new pj as we all have!

Originally posted by jeffropaige
thanks for the info guitarman. I saw the infocus and actually demoed one for a couple of days. The h31 as well but for only a day(freinds untweaked). I thought the contrast ratio on the 4805 wasnt very good, not near the 1:2000. But the h31 seemed better maybe closer to being truer to its 1:3000 it states. Was my mind playing tricks on me or what? They both use the same dlp chip but the h31 looked better. Tom have you had them side by side? This has probably been discussed but I was thinking of picking up the h31.Also the 4805 had green sparkles in the black (like on space scences in starwars) what was that rainbows? thanks in advance for your help. jeff

Yes it has been discussed. The consensus is the 4805 is a much brighter projector. A few (or maybe just one) of the IFS calibrators recommends running a ND2 lens filter on the 4805 to cut the lumens down to film like brightness. This also increases contrast and maybe the colors are less washed out too. Many over on the 4805 thread have done this trick and swear by it.

Many on that 4805 thread also consider the over brightness of the 4805 a advantage since they can cut the brightness to film levels with a cheap ND2 filter when the 4805 is new (low hrs on lamp), and as the lamp nears 1/2 life (and supposedly 1/2 lumens output), one would take the ND2 filter off to return the same brightness as a new lamp with ND2 filter.

That is the theory.

But, it would seem to me that no one has actually compared the H31 to the 4805 WITH ND2 filter attached, which I think should be done...to be fair.

Which reminds me, I think MikeSRC was suppose to do exactly that, but I don't remember him mentioning the ND2 filter in his latest comparison. I think I'll ask about this in that thread....

Fleaman

For those questioning the length of DVI or HDMI cable runs, I run a 45 foot HDMI cable and then a DVI adapter to my H31 with no issues. The picture is stunning. In fact if you do a search on my tag in this forum you can look at some screen shots I took.

Jeff

After seeing what happens when using the gamma changes with Film/video/PC the H31 went up several notches in the contrast book for sure. Check it out

Jedi's quote
"Tom,
Yes, I tried the PC Gamma 3 and did notice a big jump in contrast. I was watching NASCAR night racing on HDNet at the time. While I loved the brighter whites, and darker blacks, I did notice that the whites were burned in a bit too much, and Film revealed more details in the whites. Perhaps I need to play with the PC settings a bit. This could be a good setting for sports. The black night sky was amazing!! I'll look forward to trying the other suggested Gammas as well."

Re check the whites/contrast with the PC gamma's. White was probably a little too high, no white peaking either, it adds to crushed whites even at 1 click.

Originally posted by Jefftaz
For those questioning the length of DVI or HDMI cable runs, I run a 45 foot HDMI cable and then a DVI adapter to my H31 with no issues. The picture is stunning. In fact if you do a search on my tag in this forum you can look at some screen shots I took.

Jeff
Jeff; you should also mention the DVD player and the cables you are using (I assume we can post brands). It seems to be some players are better at sending HDMI/DVI signals then others AS well as some cables are better then others.

Guys,

Have you noticed any deterioration (and how much?) in picture quality when zooming from 2.0 throw ratio to 1.65?

Thanks.

Mike

Ultraman....................

I think you forgot to add the 6" drop from the mount to the 19.5" offset from the lens............

Originally posted by HiHoStevo
Ultraman....................

I think you forgot to add the 6" drop from the mount to the 19.5" offset from the lens............
I forgot to mention... I flunked remedial math! :p

Jeff; you should also mention the DVD player and the cables you are using (I assume we can post brands). It seems to be some players are better at sending HDMI/DVI signals then others AS well as some cables are better then others.

I am using a Panasonic S97 as the DVD player which has a HDMI connection. The 45 foot HDMI cable is from PCCables.com I am very impressed with their HDMI and DVI cables.

Originally posted by HiHoStevo
...
I have been reading these threads for quite a while and I think the general consensus is that while the 4805 and H31 are both terrific projectors on their own.... and outstanding once you throw in the price, that the H31 has a slight edge in that you can sit "slightly" closer without seeing any pixels or the SDE that is the lines between the pixels. Optoma is also known for "punchy" colors that can make the image quite vibrant.

I have not heard you can sit closer to the H31. They have the same Darkchip. Why would that be?

I've followed this thread and have heard that more than a couple of times.

Originally posted by MikeSer
Guys,

Have you noticed any deterioration (and how much?) in picture quality when zooming from 2.0 throw ratio to 1.65?

Thanks.

Mike

Naah, I really don't see a difference whether I'm near full zoom, min zoom, med zoom with any of the projectors I've had/have.

Originally posted by guitarman
Naah, I really don't see a difference whether I'm near full zoom, min zoom, med zoom with any of the projectors I've had/have.

I have a question, my new M2500 screen now shows a slight hotspot on black screens. If I move the pj farther will the hotspot disappear or just get bigger?

The hotspot will remain I would think. Hotspots are mostly screen material related but you could try dimming the PJ with a ND2 filter.

What are you guys using for a mount? I bought a DIY mount for my SP4800 on Ebay and have been very pleased with it. Is there anything available for the H31 other than the $150+ mounts? In keeping with a "budget" projector I'm hoping to find a "budget" mount.

I am curious about cheaper mounting options as well.

There is the mount from the "Great Inexpensive Mount..." thread in this forum. It seems like a good deal.

I am looking into a Panavise Deluxe 826 Mount, which another member here is using. It connects to the projector using the large tripod screw, and I have opened another thread (with no replies yet), asking peoples opinion of a mount like this.

Then there is a DIY mount like Monkeyman's Mount (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=232749)

Anyway, what is everyone using for a mount for the H31?

Thanks!

p.s. any opinions on the panavise type of connecting to the H31 would also be appreciated.

I'm probably gonna use my tripod mounting pad and build some overly engineered McGyver mount.... I have to use my new tools as much as I can. :D

Originally posted by LENNY 2112
I'm probably gonna use my tripod mounting pad and build some overly engineered McGyver mount.... I have to use my new tools as much as I can. :D

That sounds good. Most of the DIY mounts I have seen start with a simple plastic speaker bracket just like I use for my surround speakers. You can get the bracket at Walmart for like $7 for two of them. I think then it's just a matter of making a flat metal plate and drilling holes to match those of the projector mounting screws. I might give it a try once I get the projector.

Lenny 2112, I see you are from Charlotte as well. Do you currently have a projector or will the H31 be your first? I have had my Infocus SP4800 for almost 2 years now. It's been great but I think the H31 will be better.

I've had the H31 since the end of February...I love it. I'm in the process of building my HT room but watch movies about everynight. I actually live in the Weddington area and if you'd like to see it your more than welcome to check it out. I have my 7.1 system all hooked up and I'm building columns for the speakers, painting, panelling, built a riser...the whole 9 yards. All on a budget. My Gallery shows some of the progress, I still have alot to go though.

Gallery (http://gallery.avsforum.com/showgallery.php?ppuser=7484232&cat=500&thumb=1)

Originally posted by LENNY 2112
I've had the H31 since the end of February...I love it. I'm in the process of building my HT room but watch movies about everynight. I actually live in the Weddington area and if you'd like to see it your more than welcome to check it out. I have my 7.1 system all hooked up and I'm building columns for the speakers, painting, panelling, built a riser...the whole 9 yards. All on a budget. My Gallery shows some of the progress, I still have alot to go though.

Gallery (http://gallery.avsforum.com/showgallery.php?ppuser=7484232&cat=500&thumb=1)

Oh, okay I was under the impression that you did not have the projector yet. I like your tripod mount, that's pretty cool. Weddington huh? You must be in a BIG house. I'm over here off of Sharon Amity in the ghetto...:D . My house is about 45 years old and I had to turn my den into a home theater in order to use a projector. The wife was not too happy at first but she has learned to enjoy it. I have the house in a shambles still. I had to tear out a built in bookcase that was right where I wanted my projector to ceiling mount. It's like one big rectangle because the den is conected to the kitchen. Not the best accoustic setup you could hope for. :) Anyway, I'm running a Pioneer 7.1 system but dont' have the back two surrounds mounted yet. I can't figure out where to put them since I really don't have a "back" wall! I call it the Ghetto home theater but all of our family and friends seem to like the setup just fine. I really love your chairs! I would kill to have those. I got some "leatherette" reclining chairs from Circuit City for $40 each. They are nothing to write home about but they have worked out well so far. Yeah, if we can work it out I would love to see your H31 in action sometime. I have a friend that lives in Weddington so I "kinda" know my way around.

I am using the PDR mount.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=516642
not the cheapest method; but definitely not as expensive as going manufacture mounts. It is very good quality and adjustable every which way for limitless installation. It fits our H31 perfectly.

-Thomas

Originally posted by dropzone7
[BYou can get the bracket at Walmart for like $7 for two of them.[/B]
Those are not bad at all for the price. Here's a picture of one from Wal-Mart's website:

http://i.walmart.com/i/p/00/03/17/42/35/0003174235049_AV1_500X500.jpg

(they don't list the 2-pack for $7.87 online, this one is from a 5-pack for $19.48) Even though they're plastic, the H31 is a light projector, and the mount is rated for up to 10 lbs. For close-to-the-ceiling mounting, the easiest would be to use the center tripod hole on the H31. The half of the bracket with the larger mounting foot (on the right in the picture above) actually has a hole through the middle of the base that is just the perfect diameter for a bolt that matches the tripod hole. You open up the bracket completely, insert the tripod bolt from the ball side, screw it into the projector until the bracket is tight against the projector, mount the other half of the bracket to the ceiling (either directly into a joist or into a wooden ceiling plate), and then attach the two brackets together again. That's about as cheap a mount as it gets. For taller ceilings you can cut a 2x2 or even a 2x4 to the right length, screw one end into a ceiling plate, screw one bracket half into the other end, stain the wood parts nicely or paint them, and screw the ceiling plate into the ceiling. Total cost should be only $5 more or so. You can go wild on the wood design, such as adding nice trim pieces around the edge of the ceiling plate, add a hinge so you can swing it down and access the wiring inside the ceiling, add some fluting or other fancy routing to the 2x4 section, etc, etc... A wooden mount can be made to look very nice without being a master carpenter.

I made the "rod" on mine length adjustable, since I have a 10'4" ceiling and wanted to experiment with the screen height and offset. To do that, I sandwiched (glued and trim-nailed) a 4" long piece of 1x2 between two 20" long pieces at the one end and screwed that end into the ceiling plate. This resulted in a long upside down U, like a wooden tuning fork. In between the two 1x2 pieces I then slid another 1x2, also around 20" long, with the projector mount screwed to the bottom end of it. This piece can then be slid up and down between the two outside 1x2's until the right projector height is found, and then all three pieces are clamped together. Once experimenting is over and the final position is found, the clamp can be replaced by drilling a hole through all three 1x2's and bolting them together (with suitably large washers on both sides). If you want to get fancy, you can route a center slot into the middle 1x2 along most of its length for the bolt to pass through, that way you can slide the middle piece up and down and then tighten the bolt when you're satisfied.

Originally posted by case
p.s. any opinions on the panavise type of connecting to the H31 would also be appreciated.

I recently purchased an H31 and bought a 6 inch panavise mount from Amazon. The panavise is infinitely adjustable, which is a good and bad thing. It takes patience to tighten the ball joints, and retighten as necessary for proper placement. Once you get it locked in though, it holds well. It also is very unobtrusive. For $25 shipped, I recommend it.

P.S. the projector is great too!

Thanks for the info McCabe.

I am leaning toward this mount, sound like it will work well for me.

As a follow up relating to the PDR mount, what is the shortest length you can set it to (height from ceiling), I am going to have to mount quite close to the ceiling to avoid keystoning as much as possible.

I'll have to look when I get home, but I would guesstimate that with the arm of the panavise extending horizontally you could probably get the top of the projector to within 3-4 inches of the ceiling. You should probably count on that type of configuration (horizontal arm) being more difficult to get locked in then a typical mount with the arm in the vertical position. You are really going to have to tighten that top ball joint to keep the arm horizontal and prevent sagging. You will definitely want to make sure you get the 6 inch panavise and not the 9 inch to minimize the leverage on the top ball joint.

The PDR mount is adjustable from 2 1/2" to 12". I have mine at the shortest length. You just take out the middle adjustable shaft. You still have full function: tilt, swivel, pitch, yaw, blah, blah, blah. I can measure exact distance from ceiling to lens tonight if you needed.

-Thomas

Originally posted by McCabe
I recently purchased an H31 and bought a 6 inch panavise mount from Amazon.
Are you doing a custom fit with this mount? It doesn't seem to be for projectors.

Great info ultraman and mccabe.

Thanks.

The threaded mount on one end of the Panavise screws right into the tripod mounting hole on the Optoma. No custom fitting is necessary.

I have been using the 9" version on an H30 for a year now and have never felt a need to get something bigger, better, stronger. I would perhaps feel differently if I had to take down the projector frequently for filter cleaning but you don't.

I agree completely with McCabe in that the infinite adjustability is good and bad. It probably took me 3 hours to finally get all the corners of the image square the first attempt. On the other side of the coin that adjustability is nice in that shifting the projector side to side by an inch or two can be the difference between square image corners or not. I don't see how the PDR mount could shift the projector sideways like that but then I've never seen it. :)

Cheers!

Originally posted by guitarman
Naah, I really don't see a difference whether I'm near full zoom, min zoom, med zoom with any of the projectors I've had/have.
Thank you Tom!
That's really good news to me.

I am going to order the H31 today if possible.

Mike

What's the final word on using this thing with an HTPC? I don't have to use DVI; VGA is fine with me if that's the only thing that works. And I don't care about 1:1 pixel mapping, in fact I'd rather run 1280x720 than 854x480.

So will I be able to drive the H31 with an HTPC at 1280x720?

Yes. The scaler on the H31 is awesome and renders beautiful images from HD resolutions. I have fed it 1280 x 720 and even 1920 x 1080 and both looked magnificent. The card I used to do this is the ATI Radeon X700 Pro.

Also, with this card I have been able to resize in ffdshow all the way up to 1920 x 1080 without stuttering.

I've even been able to send this signal through a 50' Ultralink DVI-D cable with no sparklies, drop-outs or any anomolies usually attributed to long DVI runs.

VGA by the way looks so close to DVI on the H31 that I've been hard pressed to see any difference.

Wayne

I have had my H31 for a good amount of time, and I have done MANY adjustments....drives the wife crazy...but for some reason I have never noticed this until now.

When using the DVI cable, as you raise the Contrast from 0 to +50 it gets darker, but when you use component, it is the other way around.

Anyone else get the same results?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by uwradu
[B]Those are not bad at all for the price. Here's a picture of one from Wal-Mart's website:



Thanks uwradu! I have some of those left over from my speaker installation and that would get the projector nice and close to the ceiling. My ceilings are just 8' so I need as much headroom as possible. I'm reading a lot of things about offset with the H31. I'm curious if I will be able to retain my current screen size and location. I'm using a DIY blackout cloth screen at 54"x96" and it's probably 18" from screen top to wall top where the wall meets the ceiling. Any idea if this will work out?

just joined the h31 club, the only thing i know about so far is mounting ;)

anyway, the optoma calculator is pretty accurate however,

your drop distance might vary and remember, houses generally aren't very square

for mounting my projector, i screwed in a 1/4-20 screw right into the mounting hole on the bottom,

never mind the 3 M3 screws

the bolt is attached to a thin aluminum black anodized plate i got out of my junk bin and this is bolted into the ceiling with four 1/4 20 bolts with inserts in the studes.

Som nice sloppy wholes and washers and you can move the thing around and it can't get any closer to the ceiling without cutting the dry wall and recessing it and it is 17.524313313413413134151 inches from the ceiling, exactly! for a 48" high screen

Of course i spent a couple of hours finding the spot on the ceiling with a laser square and plumb bob.....

right now, for no keystone the projector is angled up toward the ceiling, according to my level 1.3 degrees

for all i know that could be what my wall is angled at, didn't check

anyway, all you fence sitters, you have to get one of these things

David:D ;) :D

Originally posted by gottahavapj
I don't see how the PDR mount could shift the projector sideways like that but then I've never seen it. :)

Cheers!

I have the PDR mount. You can shift the projector sideways a few inches depending on how you lock the adjustable arms (3 of them mount to the H30/H31). When you fasten the mounting plate to the H31 base, before you tighten the nuts, you can move the projector around on the horizontal plane by a few inches...maybe up to 5 inches or more. Also, the mounting plate that those 3 arms bolt to have holes drilled all the way around the plate, so you have many choices as to the position the H31 is in relative to the mounting plate.

Remember, this PDR mount has a quick release feature. So, when I talk of the mounting plate, I'm talking about the part that stays with the H31 when you release it from the upper mount.

In anycase, the PDR mount is awesome. Much adjustability and built very well + very cheap. Do a search in ebay for ' UPJM ', that will get you the correct mount.

I was proud of my $13 speaker mount for a year now, but at $90 something dollars, the PDR mount was a no-brainer.

Fleaman

Finally recalibrated the H31 with my new M2500 screen, Greens actually improved on my scale...hmmm I'll take it. Everything looks great though, color, brightness, black levels, less SDE at 10', clarity. I just need to get pass these slight rainbows I see now. No one else (friends of family) see them so I'm the only one...yeah. I'll give it some time otherwise I'm gonna go with a 1.0 gain screen, but I'll miss the High Gain effect.

I use the PDR mount, works great.

Originally posted by fleaman
Remember, this PDR mount has a quick release feature. So, when I talk of the mounting plate, I'm talking about the part that stays with the H31 when you release it from the upper mount.

Yep, exactly what fleaman said. The PDR mount is awesome. I love the quick release feature. you can take the pj off in 2 seconds to clean it, service it, or just to hold it close to you and admire how wonderful this projector really is. :)

-Thomas

I also have the PDR mount and would Strongly recommend it to anyone! I do not know if anyone else had to email questions, but they were fast, friendly, and helpful! with the responses.

Just thought I would share some of my results from playing with Powerstrip/Zoomplayer/ffdshow last night. I have never been able to get my dvi-d connection working between the H31 and my FX5700 vid card so I thought I would try VGA over DVI-I(DVI-A). I set my resolution to 800x600 to start and sure enough right out of the gate the H31 saw it. So for the next 3 hours or so I tinkered around with various Powerstrip settings, not really knowing what I was doing.

I tried different 720p and 1080i settings but I did not get a satisfactory picture, so finally I tried to home in on 848 x 480p. Here is the setting I ultimately got the best picture with ( quite stunning btw with ZP/Dscaler5/ffdshow):

PowerStrip timing parameters:
848x480=848,16,88,112,480,9,3,1,32829,2050

Generic timing details for 848x480:
HFP=16 HSW=88 HBP=112 kHz=31 VFP=9 VSW=3 VBP=1 Hz=63

Linux modeline parameters:
"848x480" 32.829 848 864 952 1064 480 489 492 493 -hsync +vsync

It seemed happiest running around 62.5Hz. I am sure it needs some more fine tuning but it should be a decent starting point. I am hoping some Powerstrip gurus can get it better than I can. I'll keep working on it as well. Hope it helps.

Matt

Matt,

You might want to try to rollback your system to a previous date using Windows XP system restore function and recovery.

I did this just this past week because I had encountered some issues when changing video cards and my computer no longer detected my H31.

After rolling back to a date about 3 weeks previous, I was able then again to get the computer and H31 to recognize each other and get a picture over DVI-D.

There is perhaps something that you've done that is conflicting with your computer's ability to 'see' the H31. Perhaps added software for example. You might want to try what I did and see what happens. It worked for me and it also cleared up some other problems that I was having with Adobe Acrobat 6.0 and Microsoft Office applications.

Wayne

Went to see Kingdom of Heaven last night at the local big name theater, my wife turned and looked at me and said "The picture....just doesn't look as good as our Theater". My jaw dropped.

With regards to mounting, how much clearance should I leave between the bottom of the projector and the wooden shelf I will be mounting it to?

I plan on drilling holes in the shelf and threading through 3 x M3 bolts that will screw into the projector.
This will mean the projector is flush with the underside of the shelf.

Is that okay to do, or should some sort of gap be left?

Originally posted by LENNY 2112
Went to see Kingdom of Heaven last night at the local big name theater, my wife turned and looked at me and said "The picture....just doesn't look as good as our Theater". My jaw dropped.


My wife never sees the screen when I take her to the theater.

You're a SEXY BEAST RedDog! :D :D

Wayne

Went to see Kingdom of Heaven last night at the local big name theater, my wife turned and looked at me and said "The picture....just doesn't look as good as our Theater". My jaw dropped.

It was nice being able to find such a great projector for such a reasonable price. My wife and I have been very impressed with the Optoma H31 and the picture it throws. We are projecting a 92 inch diagonal picture and sit about 12 feet back. To say the least the picture is stunning. We have now started to do a movie night with family and friends. I recently started to track my DVD collection at dvdspot.com. They have a option where you can set up a movie night and it will e-mail everyone letting them know what move and the date and time the movie will be playing at your home. So far the response from everyone who has seen the picture is just what Lenny's wife said - this is better that the actual theater. This week we are showing National Treasure, it is going to be great. :D

Originally posted by [H]RedDog
My wife never sees the screen when I take her to the theater.

LOL...does your wife read this thread? I bet she would like that one...

Hi all,

Would like some feed back on personal preferences when it comes to the zoom feature on the H31. I have seen a couple posts now where owners of the H31 are using zoom 2 on native 2.35.1 movies to shrink the black bars on the top and bottom of the picture. I was playing around with it a bit and am undecided. I know that the amount cut of by the zoom is minimal (I compared a 2.35.1 movie using the standard zoom 1 and zoom2) but do not know if the increase in picture size is worth the loss of picture. I showed the difference to my brother in law and he liked the increase in picture size with the zoom 2 and did not care if it took a bit off the sides. Somehow I still get the feeling that I am losing something by zooming in. What are you opinions?

I suspect that not only are some pixels sacrificed but also there may be picture degradation as well. Any type of zooming function seems to add grain to an image whenever I've tried it unless it's mechanical zooming.

Have you noticed a poorer image while doing this?

Wayne

So what is the zoom feature vs. the "letterbox" function I hear about?

Again, I'm looking to do a crop 'n' stretch of 2.35:1 movies that gets rid of the black bars, yet stretches the image vertically so that NO picture information is lost. This is what's needed for an anamorphic lens.

So far, no feature described will do what I want it to do. If not, I'll have to spend ANOTHER $500-$1,000 for a HTPC with scaling software!

Dan

Jefftaz

Maybe H31 will scale the image quite well when fed in an upconverted signal?

On original AR = 2.35 topic:
This can vary somewhat by the movie. I am shocked that people watch The Fifth Element in full screen. It's horrible!
Ronin (with Robert De Niro) uses full width of the screen in many scenes. So does Out of Africa and many others.

For some (less visually appealing) movies, it would be OK to chop off the sides a little bit.

Mike

Maybe H31 will scale the image quite well when fed in an upconverted signal?

Mike,

That could be. I am using the Panasonic S97 DVD player set at 720p output. When I was playing around with the picture this morning I did not notice a difference in picture quality - but then again I was not looking closely for it! I will look again tonight and see if I can see any noticeable difference in picture quality when zooming from 1 to 2 on a 2.35.1 movie.

You are right that certain movies would have important parts of scenes missing if you zoom in. I will probably just stick with no zoom on 2.35.1 movies.

Originally posted by Dan Hitchman
So what is the zoom feature vs. the "letterbox" function I hear about?

Again, I'm looking to do a crop 'n' stretch of 2.35:1 movies that gets rid of the black bars, yet stretches the image vertically so that NO picture information is lost. This is what's needed for an anamorphic lens.

So far, no feature described will do what I want it to do. If not, I'll have to spend ANOTHER $500-$1,000 for a HTPC with scaling software!

Dan

Dan,
a feature that i have on my dvd player has an option like this, it is called EZ VIEW, this feature streches the image vertically, and has various streching settings with it, I used to use this on my dvd player when i had the H30, but then i got the H31 and now i'm just using my HTPC(image is better), but otherwise my dvd player is fine through component, by the way, my dvd player is a Samsung HD-841 :( i know alot of people hate it, but i've had no problem with it while i used it through component with 480p
otherwise, look for dvd players that have this type of option, i think there are others that may call it differently, but not sure... well hope this helps...

Arty

i just checked on the streching settings, and they are... Widescreen, Screen Fit, and Zoom Fit...
the screen fit, that only streches vertically
zoom fit streches vertically and horizontally to keep the ratio
widescreen of course just streches it horizontally...
hope this helps...

I'm not totally up on constant height setups, there's a thread on it in the above $3.5k forum. With the H31 pretty sure you take a 2.35 movie and use the Letterbox aspect which strecthes it up, in turn you use your anamorphic lens to shape the image back down and out.

There are users doing this with the H77 and H79, the H31 has the same aspect features, plus more.

Originally posted by Dan Hitchman
So what is the zoom feature vs. the "letterbox" function I hear about?

Again, I'm looking to do a crop 'n' stretch of 2.35:1 movies that gets rid of the black bars, yet stretches the image vertically so that NO picture information is lost. This is what's needed for an anamorphic lens.

So far, no feature described will do what I want it to do. If not, I'll have to spend ANOTHER $500-$1,000 for a HTPC with scaling software!

Dan

Dan are you saying that you would like to keep the horizontal information of a 2.35 movie, but stretch it vertically to eliminate the black bars?

This will of course distort all of the images to tall & skinny mode........ sort of the opposite of taking a SD 4:3 broadcast and filling a 16:9 screen with it. Instead of short fat people yours will be delightfully thin.

OK sorry if this has been asked, but in a 100+ page thread it's hard to search.

I have a question about the throw angle for the H31. I'm comming from a Pany AE100 is the throw angle much different? I'm front projection ceiling mounted. For the AE100 I had the PJ 12 inches from the ceiling Aprox 13' back from a 105" screen. My screen top was about 13-14" from the ceiling.

Will I have a hard time mounting the H31 in the same spot? due to an over hang the PJ must be at least 10" from cieling, but I don't want the top of my screen to be 2' from the ceiling! It's sounds like thats what was mentioned with a 13.5" drop for 13' back, am I reading this wrong?

Thanks for any help.

I've had this projector for a week now and it is amazing. Everyone that sees it becomes a believer. I might have to become a reseller! :)

Buckster.........

The H31 has a 7.42 degree offset.

multiply the distance in inches from the front of your lens to the screen,

times the tangent of 7.42 degrees (.13023) to get the inches of drop from the center of the lens to the top of the image.

then add the distance from the ceiling to the center of the lens to get the total distance from ceiling to top of image.

Originally posted by Buckster
For the AE100 I had the PJ 12 inches from the ceiling Aprox 13' back from a 105" screen. My screen top was about 13-14" from the ceiling.

Will I have a hard time mounting the H31 in the same spot? due to an over hang the PJ must be at least 10" from cieling, but I don't want the top of my screen to be 2' from the ceiling! It's sounds like thats what was mentioned with a 13.5" drop for 13' back, am I reading this wrong?


Buckster, please read this short thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=537514

Mike

Thanks,

Thats what I was afraid of, looks like the AE100 projects over the lens center where as the H31 projects under the center line in ceiling mount.

My calculations show that my screen top would be 20" below the center of my lens. Which is bad as even if I could mount the PJ right on the ceiling I'd still have a screen 22" down from the ceiling.

If I put it right on the AE100's mount I'm 3 feet down from the ceiling. Guess I need to do some work as my screen is built in to a wall unit.

I'd hate to have to keystone, or if I did not that much.

HiHoStevo,

Exactly! You have to simulate a ~33% vertical stretch so that the horizontal anamorphic lens pulls the distorted image back out. BAM! A larger, wider 2.35:1 image. It's brighter somewhat because the whole panel is used to create the image with no black bars eating up panel real estate, although you don't gain any resolution.

It's for constant height/variable width screen setups, which is what I'd like to have.

That's why the H31 was interesting me over the 4805, for the most part. I'm trying to see if one of the H31 image modes will do this proper picture stretching, or will I need a HTPC with scaler software (like Theater Tek) or DVD player like the Samsungs (thanks Arty), an added expense to be sure above and beyond the cost of the lens.

If someone could do screen shots of the various video manipulation modes with a 2.35:1 movie, it would tell me (and other 2.35:1 ratio junkies) if such a beast exists.

Thanks!

Dan

Originally posted by guitarman
After seeing what happens when using the gamma changes with Film/video/PC the H31 went up several notches in the contrast book for sure. Check it out

Jedi's quote
"Tom,
Yes, I tried the PC Gamma 3 and did notice a big jump in contrast. I was watching NASCAR night racing on HDNet at the time. While I loved the brighter whites, and darker blacks, I did notice that the whites were burned in a bit too much, and Film revealed more details in the whites. Perhaps I need to play with the PC settings a bit. This could be a good setting for sports. The black night sky was amazing!! I'll look forward to trying the other suggested Gammas as well."

Re check the whites/contrast with the PC gamma's. White was probably a little too high, no white peaking either, it adds to crushed whites even at 1 click.

I've been messing around with mine and like using PC with Gamma 4. I ran the THX Optimizer test using the same calibrated settings I use with film mode. I have to use Gamma 4 to pass the THX brightness test, but no matter what I do (by changing gamma or contrast or both) there's no way to pass the THX contrast test; the whites are too high.

Still, I love the picture this way. The colors look more vivid, the blacks are blacker and it seems overall brighter. I know it's not as film like as before, but it's a great way to watch movies. This is on a matte white 126" diagonal screen.

I don't know if I'll use it like this all the time, but for now I think it's great.

Even if my settings aren't "ISF calibrated" I figure as long as I enjoy the picture, that's all that really matters. Some would say my screen is way too big also, but I love it at that size and have no problems with brightness levels or screendoor.

For me, home theater is a BIG screen, a BIG subwoofer, and the smell of popcorn (I added a theater style popcorn popper to my theater and the smell really helps add to the atmosphere)!

Another funny story, I had a neighbor who is big into RPTV's but not FP's come over and check out the H-31. He said "Man that's an awesome picture, but I bought my 61" DLP Samsung for just under $4,000, I wouldn't be able to afford a projector like that on my budget." heheheheee.. I never told him the actual price.

Originally posted by LENNY 2112
Another funny story, I had a neighbor who is big into RPTV's but not FP's come over and check out the H-31. He said "Man that's an awesome picture, but I bought my 61" DLP Samsung for just under $4,000, I wouldn't be able to afford a projector like that on my budget." heheheheee.. I never told him the actual price.

Lenny2112, I think I'm on the "watch" list at the local Best Buy stores for talking customers out of those big RPTV's and into a front projector setup! I like to check out the $3000 and up RPTV beasts now and then just to be reminded of how cool projectors really are. I love Best Buy but I really think stores are missing the boat on projectors because they don't know how to demo them and show people what you can do with one. Then again, if they can sell you a $4000 television and a service contract then they probably don't care about saving you money...:D

Seriously we should open up a little store in Matthews and show them how it's done...

Originally posted by LENNY 2112
Seriously we should open up a little store in Matthews and show them how it's done...

If I thought it would sustain itself I would but it would be difficult to carry the affordable manufacturers and at the same time buy in enough quantity to compete with the big box stores. It would be cool though to have a store like this that offered something other than a $12,000 Yamaha projector and audio gear that costs more than my vehicle. "Home Theater for the Masses" or something like that. Maybe 4 demo rooms. One LCD room and the rest for DLP and any other emerging technologies. You would most certainly have to get on board with Infocus, Optoma, BenQ, etc. to make it work. Oh well, it doesnt' hurt to dream I guess...;)

Does anyone have a recommendation for a good DVI DVD player to use with the H31? I have a Zenith 318 but have never tried it over DVI. Also, what is the preferred input for DVD viewing on the H31, is it component, DVI or S-video(480i) utilizing the scaler?

To me, DVI is a step above component. Crisper and cleaner image.

Originally posted by albo75
With regards to mounting, how much clearance should I leave between the bottom of the projector and the wooden shelf I will be mounting it to?

I plan on drilling holes in the shelf and threading through 3 x M3 bolts that will screw into the projector.
This will mean the projector is flush with the underside of the shelf.

Is that okay to do, or should some sort of gap be left?
Anyone have thoughts/suggestions on this? I'm quoting myself as it seems my post was lost in the shuffle.

The ceiling in my room is 7 feet 2 inches high, the room in 21 feet long, I can mount the projector at any distance. I am looking at the H31 with a 99 inch diagonal screen. Will this set up work?

Originally posted by albo75
Anyone have thoughts/suggestions on this? I'm quoting myself as it seems my post was lost in the shuffle.

I would have a gap of at least 1" if possible. The bottom of the Optoma get very, very hot...almost too hot to touch. You really need the ventilation.

Fleaman

Originally posted by albo75
Anyone have thoughts/suggestions on this? I'm quoting myself as it seems my post was lost in the shuffle.
The H31 vents to the front and sides so flush mounting should be okay. As fleaman states: it does get very very hot though.

Originally posted by biglyle
The ceiling in my room is 7 feet 2 inches high, the room in 21 feet long, I can mount the projector at any distance. I am looking at the H31 with a 99 inch diagonal screen. Will this set up work?
With a 99" screen you can mount your pj from a min of 12.6' to max of 15.2'. You won't have any problems throw distance wise; but ceiling height might be a problem as I suspect is your concern. The h31 has a rather large offset imo. and factor in mount lengths etc and your image could be sitting too close to the floor. You can always tilt the pj and correct with keystoning; but run into possible pq loss. the H31 does not have a manual lense shift and that is the one thing that I would complain about if I were to complain about my h31... but I am not complaining :) .

Originally posted by ultraman206
The H31 vents to the front and sides so flush mounting should be okay. As fleaman states: it does get very very hot though.
Great. I appreciate the help folks.

I received my unit today and can't wait to mount and watch!

Originally posted by albo75
Great. I appreciate the help folks.

I received my unit today and can't wait to mount and watch!

Let us know how it goes..

dropzone7,

The Panny S97 would be a good choice to feed the H31. It sends a strong enough signal out it's DVI port to travel a long distance to the H31 if needed.

I would go DVI if possible. If not, then component. I use DVI from my HTPC to the H31 through a 50' DVI cable with no problems whatsoever.

Wayne

"but ceiling height might be a problem as I suspect is your concern."

this is indeed my concern.

Can anyone with similar experience chime in?

Originally posted by mystery
dropzone7,

The Panny S97 would be a good choice to feed the H31. It sends a strong enough signal out it's DVI port to travel a long distance to the H31 if needed.

I would go DVI if possible. If not, then component. I use DVI from my HTPC to the H31 through a 50' DVI cable with no problems whatsoever.

Wayne

Thanks Wayne. I have done some reading on that unit and always heard good things about it. Seems that it's new sibling is the S77 (seems odd, newer model with lesser number...) has just been released. I wonder if this will be easier to find than the S97 which I can only find used? Wow, 50' DVI! That's good to know. I only need to run about 15' or 20'. Thanks.

"but ceiling height might be a problem as I suspect is your concern."

this is indeed my concern.

Can anyone with similar experience chime in?

Depends on how comfortable you are with a low hung screen.

Mine is mounted less than 6 ft high and throws about 11 feet.
My 92" screen comes down to within about 4" from the floor.
This just happens to work very well in my space, but it's not your average space.

I still have not been able to get any display on the H31 from my htpc pressing the DVI-D button, I have not been able to get a digital lcd screen to plug in and try it that way.
My DVI-I cable does send out DVI-A and I get a display with it that way.
I feel strongly it's the Nvidia video card that's causing this, and not exactly the H31's fault.

The whole reason I started looking into this was the scan line or tear or whatever you want to call it that I get while watching dvd's from my pc.
It's a horizontal line that appears most frequently during high action or bright flashing scenes.

Last night I turned on Half Life 2 & displayed @ 848x480 on the H31.
It was great, very nice playing this way.

Here's the point of interest: that scan line showed up almost all the time while playing. It would appear and work it's way down the screen and then appear again & repeat. This happens more in the game than in watching a dvd.

My friend who is a CRT PJ guy says he thinks maybe the PJ is having to do a lot of extra work converting the analog to digital then displaying it.

Still looking for an answer to all this.

My HDTV plays perfectly from the cable box.. and tonight is CSI Miami, man that show looks good in HDTV :)

What screen(s) would you recommend for the Optoma H31? Any input is appreciated. Thank you in advance.

da-lite model B w/CSR matte white 45x80 (92" diag)

call jason turk at a/v science

dropzone,

In case you're interested, my DVI cable is from Ultralink. Very good company.

S77 now? Sounds interesting. Too bad the S97 is so hard to get new where you are. No problem here.

60metro,

I use a Da-Lite High Power 92" diagonal screen with my H31 and just love it! I think a Matte White screen would be great as well.

Rick (rbastedo),

You still not able to get the HTPC and the H31 to make digital love!? :)

I ran into the exact same problem as you recently when I changed video cards. I had an nVIDIA PCX GeForce 5300 card that came with my computer and it HAD been recognizing the H31 fine. But I've also been struggling with the line issue as you have and in my attempt to try to solve this mystery, I had my video card removed and replaced with an ATI Radeon X700 Pro. It also recognized the H31 but I felt that the fan was kind of noisy. However, the images from this card were better than anything I had seen from an HTPC and the lines seemed to be lessened. Then the image started blanking rapidly off and on and so I took that card out and swapped it for an BFG 6600 GT card based on nVIDIA graphics again.

Here is where I had the problem getting the H31 to be detected by the HTPC. Nothing I did would get me a picture over DVI anymore. I had lost the ability to do this. So, I took that card out and put the original nVIDIA 5300 back in and it too wouldn't give a picture anymore via DVI whereas it was working fine when I took it out.

So Rick, bottom line is, something happened while changing cards whether it was a faulty card or a software issue or something else I don't know but I completely lost my ability to send a digital signal to the H31 from an HTPC.

I did get it back though by doing this: I did a system restore back to an earlier recovery date. This isn't a full restore but you just have to go into start/all programs/accessories/system tools/system restore and pick a date somewhere in the past where you know that everything was working nicely. I imagine that you are also having issues with one or more other things and not just the H31. I was having problems using Adobe Acrobat and Microsoft Office for example.

So, I did a recovery back to about 3 weeks prior and voila! That did the trick. Something had happened between the time that I had a signal digitally and then lost it. The system restore allowed me to get the digital signal back through DVI to the H31 from the computer.

My advice to you is to try this. It's simple and might work. It did for me. Something is blocking the signal from getting through in your system. It could be the card but more than likely there is an issue in your system that needs to be resolved.

Give it a shot and see what happens. Let us know what transpires.

Wayne

Originally posted by rbastedo
I still have not been able to get any display on the H31 from my htpc pressing the DVI-D button, I have not been able to get a digital lcd screen to plug in and try it that way.
My DVI-I cable does send out DVI-A and I get a display with it that way.
I feel strongly it's the Nvidia video card that's causing this, and not exactly the H31's fault.

The whole reason I started looking into this was the scan line or tear or whatever you want to call it that I get while watching dvd's from my pc.
It's a horizontal line that appears most frequently during high action or bright flashing scenes.

Last night I turned on Half Life 2 & displayed @ 848x480 on the H31.
It was great, very nice playing this way.

Here's the point of interest: that scan line showed up almost all the time while playing. It would appear and work it's way down the screen and then appear again & repeat. This happens more in the game than in watching a dvd.

My friend who is a CRT PJ guy says he thinks maybe the PJ is having to do a lot of extra work converting the analog to digital then displaying it.

Still looking for an answer to all this.

My HDTV plays perfectly from the cable box.. and tonight is CSI Miami, man that show looks good in HDTV :)

huh, i have half life 2 on my box too, but haven't tried it yet since the switch. i'll have to check it out and see how bad that scan line is.

interestingly enough, my scan line moves up. you say yours moves down. I disagree with your theory of it having difficulty converting analog to digital because it happens with Wayne's DVI out on his cards too. So it doesn't matter if it's analog or digital. In my opinion it's a flaw with the projector, plain and simple. My X1 didn't do that. Nor does my AE700. Back to the direction of the scan line for a sec, I found that by playing with PS settings I could actually get the direction of the scan line to change directions. I think it was somewhere around 58 hertz or so if I remember right. Anyway, pretty stinking frustrating if you ask me. I really think Optoma should do something about it, but there are others here who disagree which is fine. I guarantee you if it was H77/H79 having this issue, there would be plenty of people bitching about it. Oh and don't worry too much about the DVI-D not being detected, the line appears there too. :) You'd just see it more clearly. :p

don't get me wrong the PJ is great, but that line is absolutely ridiculous and imo should be looked at closely by Optoma.

billymac,
I agree, it's a great PJ but these few little things do bug me.

Does anyone get that scan line from a non-htpc source?
Is it only coming from PC's and not from stand alone dvd players?
As I said, I never see it from my cable box playing digital cable or HDTV.

I'm beginning to feel like it might be more effective if we generaate a letter to Optoma from all of us who are having the scan line issue, complaining to them separately only seems to get us a very little bit of low level attention.
Answers that don't make sense, answers that are clearly wrong, some that seem designed to just put off the issue.


Wayne,

I have never had a digital signal from my PC to my H31 so doing a system restore wouldn't help me (I believe, but could be mistaken). I am not having any other system problems and all my software is working 100%

Maybe I just need an ATI card.

rbastedo

it's only htpc both analog and digital

not HDTV or DVD stand alone and I have no idea why

as you suggest, a question best suited for Optoma tech support

i left a message for someone there, we'll see if they call back

what's even more bizzarre about the whole thing is that the line only appears during video/dvd software decode and games

doesn't matter whether overlay or vmr9 is used so that rules out Direct X (i think)

i don't know but there's gotta be WAY more people with this problem than the handful we've seen here. probably just not avs members :)

heck, i've even tried to use a audio authority transcoder to sync via component, but i coudn't get it to sync. which is weird because it should sync to a res that it is already accepting. don't know why that wouldn't work, but it didn't. i was hoping if i could get a good image via a transcoder over component maybe the line would go away. no luck there, and that's a micky mouse way of doing things anyway. you shouldn't have too. it just shouldn't be a problem in the first place.

Rick and billymac,

Yes, this line appeared no matter which card I used. I have gone back to the ATI Radeon X700 Pro PCIE card because it is just amazing. With this card, I can resize in ffdshow as high as 1920 x 1080 and who knows maybe even higher but I haven't tried any higher than that. I also can set the X700 at 1280 x 720 and I've sent the H31 1920 x 1080 from the card as well with no stuttering at all! The blanking on and off problem hasn't reappeared but it is not the exact same card in the tower that was in before although it is the same model. As for the noise with this card, it is noisier than either of the two nVIDIA cards that I tried but not unbearable.

It detects the H31 perfectly and I like it a lot better than the nVIDIA card that came with the tower.

As for this line issue.... I never had it with my X1 which I was feeding 1024 x 768 as I liked that resolution a little better than 800 x 450. And this line does not appear while using a set top DVD player. So there is a problem between computers and the H31. And it doesn't matter which resolution I set the card to, the lines are still there although 848 x 480 is unbearable. I find that I can tolerate quite well 1280 x 720 but every once in a while this line shows up and I HATE IT!!!

billymac is right in that the line is easier to see over DVI. So that's a mixed blessing. One thing to do to lessen the effect of this is to ensure that the H31 is the primary display device. Making it the secondary one introduces these lines in a bigger way.

These lines also seem to be kind of like rainbows for me. They crop up all of a sudden and then they're gone almost as quickly. And I've also noticed that in most scenes they appear near the top of the image although I've seen them lower as well.

Even so, it's still a fine projector otherwise but yeah, if this were the H77/79 I'd be hounding Optoma for a refund.

Who knows!? Maybe the H77/79 also has this problem.... :)

Originally posted by biglyle
"but ceiling height might be a problem as I suspect is your concern."

this is indeed my concern.

Can anyone with similar experience chime in?

I have a low ceiling, < 7', and decided to put my projector on a coffee table. Worked great. Now my screen is exactly where I want it.

Originally posted by ChrisDuncan
I've been messing around with mine and like using PC with Gamma 4. I ran the THX Optimizer test using the same calibrated settings I use with film mode. I have to use Gamma 4 to pass the THX brightness test, but no matter what I do (by changing gamma or contrast or both) there's no way to pass the THX contrast test; the whites are too high.




My first reaction to the PC/high gamma setting was "Wow!" My second reaction was "UGH"

It adds (or just shows more) grain then I like. It makes the image almost look like your screen material is made of a fine sandpaper.


Also, I have no problem passing the THX test on both white and black, same with Avia. I still use film, and 1 on gamma. I had to go all over the -50 to +50 to finally get it. On the Avia, every time I would set the black level and go back to check the white level it would be off, I finally got it though. Perfect setting.

Hey, the HTPC users out there with the H31, try setting the refresh rate to 72Hz or something close, right now with my 854x480 71Hz, i see no more tearing, i saw tearing at 60Hz, but since i've gone to 71Hz i see none, the only complaint i still have is the streched pixels and Fast Horizontal movement from left to right(whole screen) when i watch closely it almost seems like its slowly choppy, but i think its just because the image is so big and could be the frame rate of the movies too... so yeah

Arty

dropzone,
Before you check out other dvi dvd players, I suggest that you check out what your 318 can do. I love the image that mine gets. 720p is wonderful.

If anyone is interested, I just got the new DISH 942 HD PVR hooked up to the H31, and it's awesome. It comes with an hdmi to dvi converter, as well as an hdmi to dvi cable. That's right!! Here's a link to a huge writeup I did on it:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=5601094#post5601094

foxdvd,

I agree with you. The PC setting on the H31 isn't for serious calibration use. It's Fair and Carnival Cotton Eye Candy but if you're striving for an image that resembles what the Director of a film had in mind, you need to still utilize the film setting in my opinion.

I too said 'Wow' when I first saw it but after looking at it critically it took on a very plastic, over-processed look. I still use Film and Gamma 1 as well.

Arty,

Thanks for the tip. I'm not going to mess with PowerStrip but I'll try to get the 72Hz @ 1280 x 720 or 848 x480 and see what happens.

Wayne

I thought i noticed in the H31 manual last night that they showed in the mock setup.. a DVI to component adaptor...
i don't remember reading anything on this.. would the component cables handle the DVI output ? enough to make a difference?
example, DVI or HDMI out of the cable box or dvd player into component then back to another adapter and DVI into the H31??
thanks!

No... You don't want to do that... The DVI connector is flexible enough to allow for accepting ANALOG component signals as well. The adapter just provides another component input into the H31... But the cables and connectors, of course, are carrying an analog component signals. NOT digital signals... If you want to use the DVI for DIGITAL, you will need a true digital DVI ($$) cable. There are different pins on the connector used when you are sending component or digital DVI. I think you can also send in RGB (VGA) signals as well, with the appropriate adapter. But these are analog signals, not digital.

Okay, I think I have almost talked my wife into letting me get the H31. This will be my second projector so I'm still fairly new to the technology. My question is this: I have an HD PVR with an HDMI output that I am not using. I also have an upscaling DVD player with DVI output that I am not using. Up until now I have run everything through component outputs to my Infocus SP4800 using a component switcher for 4 sources. I want to keep that with the H31. However, what should I dedicate to the DVI input on the H31? Should it be the DVD player or the HD PVR? Also, should I get a plain old DVI cable that is DVI on both ends or should I get an HDMI to DVI cable for the HD PVR? I'm thinking that my next DVD player will have HDMI output and that this might be the better choice as I could then use the HDMI to DVI cable with either source (DVD or HD PVR). I realize that I would need a switcher to do both at the same time but at least for now I would rather figure out which device benefits from the digital connection more.

buy a dvi or hdmi switchbox :)

Originally posted by billymac
buy a dvi or hdmi switchbox :)

Yeah, that will come later. For now I'm trying to decide what device to send to the H31's DVI port. Would an HDMI to DVI connection from my cable box be better or a DVI to DVI from my upscaling DVD player?

Hey dropzone, I can only say this since I don't have HD set up yet. I've noticed a good quality difference with going from component to DVI on the DVD player. I'm just assuming here so don't hold me to it but the HD source may be just as good through component as HDMI. I would run the HD through the component and get the best out of a DVD source through the DVI. How do you like TWC Charlotte, I still have SD Dtv and I'd like to switch to HD eventually. I'm not sure if I want to go cable or sat for HD???

Originally posted by LENNY 2112
Hey dropzone, I can only say this since I don't have HD set up yet. I've noticed a good quality difference with going from component to DVI on the DVD player. I'm just assuming here so don't hold me to it but the HD source may be just as good through component as HDMI. I would run the HD through the component and get the best out of a DVD source through the DVI. How do you like TWC Charlotte, I still have SD Dtv and I'd like to switch to HD eventually. I'm not sure if I want to go cable or sat for HD???

Thanks Lenny2112, I'm thinking the same thing since movies is where I usually have an audience. I would rather save the optimum connection for the DVD player I suppose. I have kind of a "love-hate" relationship with TWC. The HD channels look VERY good if you get the right box. I have the newest one by Scientific Atlanta with the built in DVR and I love it. I went through about three boxes before getting one I really liked. Actually, the old Pioneer boxes they had actually made the best HD picture in my opinion but I wanted the ability to record. Now, the SA box is running the Pioneer software (Passport) and we have the best of both worlds. Frankly, I would keep HD for Discovery HD Theater and HD NET alone but there are other options like CSI in HD on CBS and Alias in 720p on ABC! Very nice indeed. Not to mention that the HD channels play things that you wont see anywhere else like the IMAX movies. There is a channel called INHD 1 and 2 and they play the IMAX stuff and it just rocks! I highly recommend Time Warner HD service. The customer service stinks but I work just down the street from the Charlotte corporate office so I can go down there on my lunch hour and give them hell if need be! As my wife can tell you, I have done that many a time. All this on a 480p projector too. I can't imagine how great it would look on a native 720p or 1080i unit. I play most everything at 1080i to the projector and it makes you never want to watch DVD's again. I recorded Chronicles of Riddick off of HBO-HD last night and it looks super good. Good luck with TWC-HD. I think you will be pleased with it.

Originally posted by billymac
buy a dvi or hdmi switchbox :)

I might have to do that too. DVI dvd player and DVI cable box to 1 projector. Been looking at the DVI Link DS-21R (do a search, don't want to give a link:) ). Seems to fit the bill well and around the $200 mark, which appears to be reasonable for dvi switch boxes.

If anyone has one, chime in with your opinions.

Fleaman

try setting the refresh rate to 72Hz or something close, right now with my 854x480 71Hz

Arty, I know I tried this before but somehow it's changed...
I played around adding new resolutions today and it seems like the only frequency that produces the scan lines is 60hz!!!

I did 71 - no lines
I added 61, 62, 62, thru 69 hz - no lines!

Right now running 848x480 62hz mode 43 & played some start wars ep1 & watched during some shootouts & no lines at all.

Now if I can just get my pc to output digital I might have this thing working right...

glad that solves it for you, but doesn't make any difference for me. i had tried that already.

which card do you have rbatedo? which drivers?

i assume you're using powerstrip to get those customer refresh rates? or are you adding them within the driver?

hey the other question i had rbastedo and arty, is did your PQ suffer when you raised your refresh?

I have a BFG 5900 vid card

I think PQ was worse the higher the refresh rate, so I stuck with 62hz as that looked ok and didn't have the lines.
I'll reboot the pc & try again later tonight to see if it's just a weird coincidence or if the lines are truly gone.

Forceware 71.89

Originally posted by rbastedo
I have a BFG 5900 vid card

I think PQ was worse the higher the refresh rate, so I stuck with 62hz as that looked ok and didn't have the lines.
I'll reboot the pc & try again later tonight to see if it's just a weird coincidence or if the lines are truly gone.

so the picture was NOT as sharp and clear with 62Hz as it was with 60Hz but the line was gone?

acceptable or disappointing?

did you add the refresh rates with the driver or via Powerstrip?

I added custom refresh with the nvidia driver

I need to look at it in the dark before I will know enough about the PQ, it may be just the same as 60 hz but I don't know yet.
I also need to try a couple different dvd's.

Lines were also gone in HL2.

When I first got my H31 I mistakenly sent the pj 75Hz because that's what I had my tower's desktop settings at and the image on the H31 was absolutely horrible and I thought I had made a huge mistake in buying this projector. This was at 848 x 480. When I lowered the refresh rate to 60Hz the image became phenomenal except for the lines.

Wayne

well i cant really tell any difference in PQ with 71Hz over 60Hz, but then again i am doing it at 854x480 and it looks really clear... otherwise with the streching(not 854x480) it may/probably will affect the PQ, and depending on what card you are using, it maybe only a little, or alot... so yeah... well i guess i should get back to my PC Jukebox project... if you have any other questions, just ask :D

Arty

i just changed my Hz to 61, i'll see if i notice any lines or PQ change...

rbastedo, can you tell me what you're doing to add the 62Hz refresh rate within the nvidia drivers?

when i goto the screen with advanced timing options and then goto set it to 62Hz, it accepts it, but then it changes it right back to 60 and nothing happens. GGRRRR

what am i doing wrong?
when i use powerstrip to change it to 62Hz the picture is not centered. It's off to the right about a foot. resyncing does nothing. same with 64

nevermind, i was doing it in the wrong section. i got it to add. i tried 48 all the way up to 70 and i'm still seeing the line.

i also tried powerstrip and tried settings between 58 and 70 and fractions in between each whole number. if i could get a good picture, usually on even numbered refresh numbers, i'd still see the line.

right now the best refresh rate i've found is 60.083Hz. that seems to produce the least amount of lines, but they're definitely still there and definitely still a total drag. :(

they do however seem to be limited to the upper half of the display. again i'd like to note that when the scan rate drops below 60Hz, the line moves from top to bottom instead of from bottom to top.

IFLYHi, Potus and Dropzone,
I want to add some clarity to the dvi cable info discussed above. One does not need a purely digital dvi cable to transmit digital signals. Nor do you need to have dvi-d(digital) connections at both ends of the cable for digital transmissions. A dvi-i cable is able to transmit digital and analog signals along one cable. What one must consider is the ability of the source component to send out an analog or digital signal, and/or the type of dvi output connector on the device. Let's say that you have something like a pc videocard. This will most likely have a dvi-i output, so that it can send out digital and/or analog. You'll just have to get into the card settings and tell it what to send out. If you choose digital, then a digital signal should go straight out the dvi-i connector into the dvi-i input of the H31 or other display device. Or, it may be that analog and digital are permanently "on", and you'll make the selection of which signal to view by pressing dvi-a or dvi-d on the H31 remote.

Another scenario is to have a dvi cable with a dvi-i connector at the H31 end, and a dvi-d connection at the source end. Both connectors would be male, and this would work for something like a set top box with an hd dvi-d output, or a dvi dvd player. These devices usually have dvi-d only connectors, as the consumer is not expected to want to view analog signals through dvi at all. A dvi-i connector will not even plug into a dvi-d jack, as there is no provision for the 4 analog pins at all. I'll have to admit that this kind of cable may not make much sense, as the dvi-i connection at the H31 end has no way of ever receiving or transmitting an analog signal, because the source end will only do digital. You might as well have a straight digital cable.

A solution to this would be to have a dvi-i male connector at the H31 end, and have a dvi-i female jack on the source end. Then, one could buy dvi-d male to male cables to feed into the female end of the existing cable (going into the pj) for digital connections. Or, if you like, you could get dvi-d to dvi-i cables for the source components. This would work, but once again, the dvi-i connection is not really needed because analog signals would not be present coming out of a dvi-d jack. For your sources that still need analog capability, you could get dvi-i to dvi-i cables(male to male). This setup is quite flexible and gives you the full use of the H31's dvi-i connector for analog and digital.

In my setup right now, I have a pure digital male to male dvi-d cable going from my souce component racks to the H31. It's a 5 meter run, and it works fine. I got it for about $17 bucks, which is killer!!. However, I have limited myself because there is no way that I can fully utilize the dvi-i jack on the H31. I cannot send dvi analog signals at all to the H31. My goal is to replace the dvi-d cable with a 5 meter dvi-i male to female cable, and then I'll get several dvi-d to dvi-d male to male cables for my digital sources(to plug into the female dvi-i jack), and dvi-i male to male cables for analog, giving me more options for connections. I know this was long, but I've seen lots of posts where info was not clear on the analog/digital uses of the dvi cable in it's many forms. I didn't go into other kinds of dvi cables, or single link versus dual links, but I will if anyone wants me to.

Oh, furthermore...Potus was quite correct in advising against a dvi source being changed into something else through the use of adapters. This totally kills the idea of using a dvi signal in the first place, especially a digital one. Why change a digital signal into something analog, and then try to get it back to dvi digital at the pj end? I don't know if this is even possible for a reasonable amount of money.

Dropzone, here's something else to think about. All dvi/hdmi outputs are not created equal. Up until recently, I had noticed that every single one of my sources that had dvi outputs showed a cleaner, clearer signal through this connection as opposed to component. Now, I have the new DISH 942 HD PVR, and it's component output appears to be every bit as good as the hdmi output. It will be hard for you to make a judgement on which kind of source component will give you the most benefit through dvi without seeing for yourself. This probably isn't what you want to hear, but any other way is guessing, and you wouldn't be making a fair decision for the best signal to feed to the H31. I need to find a dvi switchbox myself. Right now I painfully take the time to do(and undo) each dvi connection, and that's getting old.

nice

Looks like my lines are def gone :)

Thanks Arty!

Originally posted by rbastedo
Looks like my lines are def gone :)

Thanks Arty!

anytime :D, glad i could help...
as for PQ i cant really tell at 61Hz and i dont get any lines either... so i'll probably be leaving it on 61Hz over 71Hz just because "it's" supposed to look better :D

Arty

oops double post...

I waited until dark and turned on Star Wars ep1 & found the flashing action scenes like the light sabre battle with the sith, there woiuld definitely be lines there at 60hz but none at 62hz.

Then I started Half Life2 - deathmatch.
There were almost continual lines at 60 hz and not a single one at 62hz.

Weird, strange, I don't know why but there you go.

Quality was very good, I have to look at another dvd I have watched recently to compare quality like Hero or House of flying daggers. It was just too late last night to do it all (and I probably watched too much SW ep1).

i wish i could sync correctly at 62Hz via the nvidia driver

it syncs, but the image is shifted to the right and a reboot or even a resync does nothing. i don't understand why yours would be synching correctly and mine would not. granted my card is a 6800GTO and yours is a 5900, but we're using the same drivers.

this is totall frustrating. :(

i spent 2 hours last night trying to get rid of that dang thing

rbastedo, can you do me a favor and look at the details of your timings, jot them down and post them here please?

Any Xbox players here that play on the H31? Played some Co-op Halo2 over the weekend and it is awesome...:D

Originally posted by LENNY 2112
Any Xbox players here that play on the H31? Played some Co-op Halo2 over the weekend and it is awesome...:D

Well, not yet on a H31 but on my SP4800 for a good while now. Lenny, by the way, where in the world did you find your Panny S97? Nobody has these anywhere! I held with Panasonic for 25 minutes and they told me they would be shipping units on the 16th, 23rd and month end. I would like to find one somewhere locally. Best Buy has never heard of them. :rolleyes:

I couldn't decide between the 4805, the H31 or the Sanyo Z2. I haven't really
seen these in action so I could only go with what I've read. In any case I just ordered the H31. It was based on the reviews of the unit, and because I got it from a place with a no questions asked return policy.

I hope I like the unit.

billymac,

have you tried adding & testing others? 61hz 63hz 61.5hz etc?

horizontal
fp 16
bp 104
sp -
sw 88
scan rate 30.88 khz
active pixels 848

vertical
fp 1
bp 14
sp +
sw 3
scan rate 62.009
active pixels 480

pixel clock 32.61mhz

i tried everything man, like i said, i spent a good 2 hours last night fiddling with this. the nvidia drivers won't let you add decimals, but i did try that with powerstrip, but like i said when it sync to 62, the image is shifted over to the right and the right hand side is missing (there's a foot of blank screen on the left). the image looks good, but it's not centered and it's missing information. does that make sense? i tried 48-70 and decimals between 58 and 70. do any of the resolutions you tried give you this shifted image?

Originally posted by hdtvforme
I couldn't decide between the 4805, the H31 or the Sanyo Z2. I haven't really
seen these in action so I could only go with what I've read. In any case I just ordered the H31. It was based on the reviews of the unit, and because I got it from a place with a no questions asked return policy.

I hope I like the unit.
You will.

And be sure to let us know your thoughts when you get it!

billymac, yes I do get the shift to the right thing on some of the frequencies.
it's strange that you are getting it so much. sounds like a sync problem all right, wish I could be more help

Originally posted by LENNY 2112
Any Xbox players here that play on the H31? Played some Co-op Halo2 over the weekend and it is awesome...:D

Yes, plenty of XBox. Halo2 looks good, but the my favorite so far is Burnout 3. The bright colors just pop.

Also, if anyone has chance to pick up the Applseed dvd released yesterday, I'd highly recommend it. It's an all-digital hi-def transfer and some of the sequences look amazing. Esp on the H31. My roommates and I were in awe.

Well I took some screenshots with my crappy digital camera. The only purpose of the shots were to show the difference in modes.

Film Mode, Gamma setting: 1
http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/501/7484232FlimGamma1.jpg

PC Mode, Gamma setting: 3
http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/501/7484232PCGamma3.jpg

Graphics Mode, Gamma setting: 4
http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/501/7484232GraphicsGamma4.jpg

Graphics mode is too bright for movies IMO, but it is great for gaming and stills.

No Orangy-Reds on my H-31, the reds are perfect.

Yes, those reds look a lot better than mine. (I have the "orangy-reds" as you call em..)

Is this with the out-of-the-box settings? Or did you make some adjustments? (if so, what?) I hope this isn't one of those hit-or-miss problems (like VB on LCD projectors..)

Thanks for posting those Lenny! Nice reds indeed. I love that movie (POTC) but it's got lots of problems with dot crawl and full of motion artifacts. This is one I would like to use for demo but I usually don't due to the mastering problems. Regardless, a great movie! I agree, Graphics mode looks a bit "hot" for movies but the Film mode looks good. My monitor here at work sucks and makes most things look dark but I can tell that this would be to my liking in person. So, are you going to get HD? Would be nice to see some pics of HD material on the H31. Also, I'm assuming these were from your Panny S97? What resolution were you using? 480p or upscaled to 720p or 1080i?

It seems that many people who are getting nice deep reds are doing so over the DVI input versus the component. Is there anything to this? I've calibrated both a Denon 2200 and Pioneer DV-563 over progressive component and both have ever so slight orangey-reds, though much better than pre-cal. Maybe I'll drop some coin on the Panny S97 or Oppo and see what the fuss is about.

Moe

Yeah I used DVE to calibrate. My reds had some orange OTB, especially with the Sammy 841 I HAD. I run the Panny S97 via DVI (720P) and my reds on the chart are perfect. I also Calibrated with xbox through the component and the reds look just as good, the greens are a little pushed, but it looks awesome and vivid. DropZ: yes I'd love to get HD soon, my wife hates TWC and it looks like I'll be going DirecTV. Now I have to spring 300 bucks for the HD receiver.
Anyways I hope you all can make some opinions and comments on the contrast difference between the pictures. Look at the white shirts, and black hats with grey brim, and background material. Notice the background is much clearer in PC and Graphics mode...looking way back at the trees.

It does sound like people are getting better reds with DVI (my orange-red is through component...)

But the fact is that the pj IS capable of more accurate reds. Regardless of the input, it ought to then be possible to achieve these reds with appropriatte calibration/adjusment. Don't you think?

I really don't want to shell out another $200 or so on a new dvd player just to correct the reds.

So, anyone know of any "secret menus" or something on the H31 that would allow us to fix the bad component reds?

Lenny,

Nice images! I can see that the PC and Graphics modes are blowing out the whites though. If you check on the left and right hand sides of the images, you'll notice that some white detail is obscured on the PC and Graphics modes when compared to Film. Yet the Film mode isn't as bright. I think I'd rather have the image slightly less bright but revealing greater white detail as Film seems to do.

I agree that the trees are better defined in your pictures with PC and Graphics modes but at the expense of white detail it would appear. I guess if you can't have both you have to choose which one is more important to you. Perhaps using Film and a higher gamma rating might be a good compromise?

Wayne

Originally posted by mystery
Lenny,
I agree that the trees are better defined in your pictures with PC and Graphics modes but at the expense of white detail it would appear. I guess if you can't have both you have to choose which one is more important to you. Perhaps using Film and a higher gamma rating might be a good compromise?

Wayne

I have had good luck with Film mode and Gamma 2. It seems like a pretty decent compromise.

Cheers,
Mark

Nice images Lenny. Would it be possible to share your settings with us (both on the H31 and the S97)?

Originally posted by ultraman206
Nice images Lenny. Would it be possible to share your settings with us (both on the H31 and the S97)?

I will man, I'm sorry I haven't gotten them to you yet. I'll try tonight but I'm packing for a trip to Ohio for the weekend. I can tell you I left the Panny with the OTB calibrations, I only changed default display to 16:9 and some audio settings.

Originally posted by LENNY 2112
I will man, I'm sorry I haven't gotten them to you yet. I'll try tonight but I'm packing for a trip to Ohio for the weekend. I can tell you I left the Panny with the OTB calibrations, I only changed default display to 16:9 and some audio settings.

From what I have read and experienced, this is exactly the right thing to do. Make all calibrations and changes at the display end and not the source. Of course this also means that you have to recalibrate your projector/tv every time you connect a new player, set top box, game system or whatever. It's well worth it though to get that smooth image for each independant source. Although I'm currently using a different projector I can certainly see the fruits of calibration and I admit that it took me a while to get used to the slightly darker overall image of a "film like" image and not go for the pop of a superbright setting. Afterall, coming as close to possible to the theater experience at home is what this is all about.

Anybody know if the H31 is capable of doing a "splash screen" on startup where you can plant an image specific to your "theater"? A friend of mine made this one up for me but I have not found a way to incorporate it into the process yet.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v641/dropzone7/DMVChromecopy.jpg

Yea, only in video games I like over brightened images...but then again maybe that's why I get so many headaches. I like this pj because you have so many modes to set what you want and each mode is per input type. So right now I'm using (DVI) User1 for my DVD and (Component) User 1 for my Xbox. If I get an HD box running through the (DVI) I'll put it under User 2.

Hey guys, is any of you aware that Optoma no longer includes the HDMI-DVI adapter?

That's what I am being told by Nancy from VisualApex.

Mike

Thanks Mike,

We did learn about this very early on. It's unfortunate that it's not included.

Wayne

Thanks "mystery!"

I guess, the mystery have been solved :-)

I just thought it was a "Friday 13" problem...

Mike

Wondered if they ever even included the adapter in any of the Optoma H31s that went out since day 1.

High Power Screen and Back Wall Color

We had the back wall of our recroom painted flat black on Thursday with two coats of Dulux outdoor paint. The result is absolutely fabulous! It's a very flat paint and it has reduced reflections off of the wall to basically nothing.

With a High Power screen, it's retro-reflective properties cause light from the lens to travel directly back to the lens and then reflect from there again to the screen. This causes blacks and contrast ratio to washout. You can see the difference and measure it with AVIA.

I went from pre-painted levels of 11 Contrast and -15 Brightness to post painted levels of -10 Contrast and 1 Brightness. Quite a difference! Now, standing at the front of the room several feet off to the side of the screen and looking back at the projector, you can clearly see a triangular path of light emanating from the lens, broadening out as a triangle in it's destination to the screen. The black back drop behind this light displays a remarkable contrast and it's comparable to looking at a spotlight in the dark.

Anyone using a High Power screen should blacken their back wall. We also painted about a yard of the false ceiling from where it meets the back wall and then 8" up to the 'real' ceiling.

And surprise, surprise, it actually looks good against the green walls and ceiling of the rest of the room. My WAF even likes it. Can you beat that??
:)

HTPC Users

There is some potentially good news on the tearing (horizontal line exhibited) front. I've been playing around in PowerStrip and am currently experimenting with 1280 x 720 @ 48Hz rather than 60Hz. Lowering to this refresh rate seems to drastically reduce the lines. I also, at the suggestion of Loner (thanks Don! :) ) activated the V Sync option in Direct 3D on my video card (ATI Radeon X700 256 MB). I will further experiment as I'm not sure whether they both in tandem are reducing the lines or if one will be sufficient. At this point I suspect that just going to 48Hz may be enough but we'll see.

I'll also be testing out 848 x480 @ 48 Hz and perhaps try to get 854 x 480 1:1 pixel mapping.

I'll report back hopefully sometime this weekend with how it's going in my quest to completely eliminate this line issue. I think if I do no better than the way I've got it now, I could be quite happy as the lines are now extremely rare, sort of like the odd rainbow really.

Wayne

Originally posted by mystery
HTPC Users

There is some potentially good news on the tearing (horizontal line exhibited) front. I've been playing around in PowerStrip and am currently experimenting with 1280 x 720 @ 48Hz rather than 60Hz. Lowering to this refresh rate seems to drastically reduce the lines. I also, at the suggestion of Loner (thanks Don! :) ) activated the V Sync option in Direct 3D on my video card (ATI Radeon X700 256 MB). I will further experiment as I'm not sure whether they both in tandem are reducing the lines or if one will be sufficient. At this point I suspect that just going to 48Hz may be enough but we'll see.

I'll also be testing out 848 x480 @ 48 Hz and perhaps try to get 854 x 480 1:1 pixel mapping.

I'll report back hopefully sometime this weekend with how it's going in my quest to completely eliminate this line issue. I think if I do no better than the way I've got it now, I could be quite happy as the lines are now extremely rare, sort of like the odd rainbow really.

Wayne [/B]

well wayne, thats good to hear you are making progress... try using the freq 62Hz, i use 61hz with my 854x480 res and i get no lines what so ever... but when i do 60 hz i get lines, i suggested using different freq. earlier, i know it helped some people, but not others... well hopefully you can help the other people who are having this problem... keep us posted if you get the 1:1 mapping and no lines, for others use...

Arty

yeah let us know wayne

for the record, 61, 62, or any other resolution does not fix the problem with my 6600GT or 6800GTO cards. so that's not a silver bullet.

60.083Hz via powerstrip has slightly reduced the lines, but not eliminated them. i'm still very disappointed about all this and still no word from optoma.

Lenny,
Yes, I can see how the PC and Graphics modes can have an appeal. In your pictures, Film mode does look too dark. However, in my setup, Film looks just right, and I'll bet that it would look better to the eyes in yours as well. I still might use PC for sports and stuff. I also agree that dvi does seem to automatically give a more natural color balance than component. I notice red push on component, but not dvi. It looks like the reds on my H31, whether component or dvi are pretty good. They appear to be telling the truth, as I see many different shades of reds...sometimes even in the same scene.

Originally posted by billymac
yeah let us know wayne

for the record, 61, 62, or any other resolution does not fix the problem with my 6600GT or 6800GTO cards. so that's not a silver bullet.

60.083Hz via powerstrip has slightly reduced the lines, but not eliminated them. i'm still very disappointed about all this and still no word from optoma.

That's too bad. The problems you guys with HTPC's are having are about the only thing that's kept me from upgrading my H30 to an H31.

There are a lot of inherent problems with PC's - it's a real soup in there with all the different cards/psu's/mobo's etc and then you throw in the mix of software and drivers - it's a wonder any of them work at all.

Add to that a lot of us slap our own PC's together mixing and matching stuff that sometimes the manufacturers never dreamed would go into the same case.

You also should know that even though every piece of equipment may be approved for use re interference only off the shelf machines can be guaranteed to operate within interference guidelines. There is nothing that says that if you use components and put them together there will not be an interference problem. The very thing that makes building PC's fun - wide variety of parts to fit everyones desires, is the thing that makes troubleshooting a nightmare.

Case in point:
Once I found that Outlook 2000 was taking about 30 seconds to do any function. Click the mouse on anything & wait 30 seconds.
This drove me crazy, until I finally found it was somehow being caused by an Nvidia detonator driver. Removed that driver & the Outlook problem went away. Could not believe it so I reinstalled that driver - Outlook problem reappeared!!!

Anyone who has been around PC's for a while will have stories of their own.

So, as it's been said before - don't give up if you want to use a PC to output to your PJ and it has some problem, keep at it until you solve it. It may be something that seems utterly unrelated that is causing your trouble - who can tell?

Originally posted by mystery
High Power Screen and Back Wall Color

We had the back wall of our recroom painted flat black on Thursday with two coats of Dulux outdoor paint. The result is absolutely fabulous! It's a very flat paint and it has reduced reflections off of the wall to basically nothing.

Anyone using a High Power screen should blacken their back wall. We also painted about a yard of the false ceiling from where it meets the back wall and then 8" up to the 'real' ceiling.

And surprise, surprise, it actually looks good against the green walls and ceiling of the rest of the room. My WAF even likes it. Can you beat that??
:)


Wayne

Can you post some pics of the finished goods?

Originally posted by rbastedo
There are a lot of inherent problems with PC's - it's a real soup in there with all the different cards/psu's/mobo's etc and then you throw in the mix of software and drivers - it's a wonder any of them work at all.

Add to that a lot of us slap our own PC's together mixing and matching stuff that sometimes the manufacturers never dreamed would go into the same case.

You also should know that even though every piece of equipment may be approved for use re interference only off the shelf machines can be guaranteed to operate within interference guidelines. There is nothing that says that if you use components and put them together there will not be an interference problem. The very thing that makes building PC's fun - wide variety of parts to fit everyones desires, is the thing that makes troubleshooting a nightmare.

Case in point:
Once I found that Outlook 2000 was taking about 30 seconds to do any function. Click the mouse on anything & wait 30 seconds.
This drove me crazy, until I finally found it was somehow being caused by an Nvidia detonator driver. Removed that driver & the Outlook problem went away. Could not believe it so I reinstalled that driver - Outlook problem reappeared!!!

Anyone who has been around PC's for a while will have stories of their own.

So, as it's been said before - don't give up if you want to use a PC to output to your PJ and it has some problem, keep at it until you solve it. It may be something that seems utterly unrelated that is causing your trouble - who can tell?

i agree with you for the most part, but not at all in this situation. this is not a matter of interference, this is a vertical sync issue caused by the projector being incredibly finiky. i've never seen the same thing on my X1, or my AE700, EVER. and i've thrown a ton of different HTPC signals to both of them. the same systems that worked with those projectors give me the lines on the H31.

rbastedo and billymac,

I agree with both of you. It's so much easier to just use a set top box, stand alone DVD player. When computers are thrown into the mix, it gets a lot more complicated.

I started using an HTPC for the first time last November when we bought a computer that had a DVD drive (2 DVD drives actually). I had an X1 at the time and immediately was floored at how much better an image can be when fed a signal with post-processing from a software program such as ffdshow in conjunction with the program called ZoomPlayer. I used a high density quality VGA cable sending 800 x 600 and 1024 x 768 resolutions to the X1. There weren't any line issues to deal with but I did have a certain 'waviness' to contend with on panning shots. It was not noticeable very much and I learned to deal with it like I learned to deal with the odd rainbow. The increase in image quality was worth it.

Now this H31 is another matter in a bittersweet kind of way. It is head and shoulders above the X1 in my opinion in almost every way but when it comes to feeding it a digital signal from my computer it almost makes me want to buy back my X1!

I have had nothing but heartache and misery trying to get this H31 to work with my HTPC via DVI. I have two what I consider to be major problems with this combo. Firstly, the line issue. It refuses to be eliminated no matter what I try. The best that I've come up with is to feed it a 1280 x 720 signal at 48Hz via PowerStrip program that reduces the line to the frequency of rainbows which is to say, rare but not forgotten.

Secondly, and this is even more frustrating is that I cannot get the H31 and my HTPC to handshake consistently. The two of them only work for a while, the last interval being 7 days and then poof, no H31 detected by my video card. I have tried the original card that came with the computer, the nVIDIA PCX 5300 Geforce, an ATI Radeon X700 Pro, and a BFG (nVIDIA) 6600 GT card. The first two worked for a while and then no signal detected. The last card wouldn't work at all with this projector. I managed to regain the signal with my original card but that was only after contacting Optoma and complaining which resulted in a swapped unit.

Yes, that's right. Optoma Canada has no way of testing DVI output because they don't have a computer with a video card that has DVI so they couldn't test my unit to see if/where the problem might lie. In light of that, I immediately requested an exchange for a new unit which they to their credit readily agreed to. I sent my first H31 off 12 days ago in the afternoon and the new one arrived at my door 1 1/2 days later. Phenomenal service!!

The second H31 worked with the original card which was in the tower at the time that the pj arrived. However, I didn't like the way HD resolution looked on the H31 with this card so I swapped it out for an ATI Radeon X700 Pro 9 days ago. Just this Saturday after posting that I was going to spend the weekend working with PowerStrip after having had some success in reducing the line issue, I went to turn on the H31 and my HTPC and voila, no picture and I haven't had one since.

So this is now the second H31 that I'm on that won't receive a digital signal from the HTPC. What makes this so infuriating is that the DVI port of my HTPC will send an analog signal to the H31's DVI port but not a digital one. And, the H31 will receive digital signals from a DVD player's HDMI output converted to DVI. I know because I got so frustrated yesterday that I went out and bought a Panasonic S97 player which is a fantastic player by the way. It's not quite up to the level of a properly working HTPC but it's close enough especially given the crap that I've been through since buying this projector.

So you're probably all thinking that the fault lies with my HTPC then? I'm not convinced. Nothing has been done software wise or hardware wise to effect this problem. I did nothing unusual from last Saturday to this one when both the pj and the tower were working flawlessly except for the line issue. Then out of the blue for no apparent reason, the digital signal disappeared.

I've only had the Panny since yesterday so who knows, I might lose the digital signal from that too. It's too early to tell yet but I think that the problem probably lies with billymac's assessment that this H31 does not tolerate a digital signal from a computer very well or in my case for very long.

I have contacted Optoma Canada again to apprise them of the situation and to see whether they think that trying a third unit is worth a try. I can't help but wonder whether the H77 or H79 exhibits this problem. I told them that too.

So, I'm very disappointed about all of this and it has left a sour taste in my mouth. I still love this pj though even with all of the headaches. My LG7832/Zenith DB318 upconverting player has worked without a hitch and looked very nice since the first day I plugged it into the pj via component. I think that the problem with the H31 is through the DVI port and the unit's ability to properly sync and hold a digital signal fed at varying refresh rates from a computer.

I'll let you all know what Optoma does or doesn't do. I don't want a refund because I went to all the trouble to adapt my X1 Mandarax mount to fit the H31 and even had to move the mount's base on the wall to compensate for the lens' off-centredness on the screen due to the different shape of the two projectors. Plus as I just informed everyone, I also just had the back wall painted last Thursday to drastically reduce retro-reflections pertaining to my High Power screen. I will by the way attempt to post some pictures but I hope everyone understands that right now it's kind of a secondary 'must do' in light of this dilemma. I also haven't posted pictures on AVS before and will have to learn how to do it.

So, my weekend of tweaking the H31 with PowerStrip became a weekend from Hell. At least I have the Panny S97 now to send what is to me a beautiful digital signal to the H31. I hope it doesn't go away too!

Sorry to rant like this. I'm just extremely frustrated that I couldn't just buy this projector and sail off into the sunset on my couch.

Wayne

Has anyone played with the RS-232 connection on the H31 yet? Just from skimming through the manual it seems that it should be possible to completely remote control it via the serial port. I also looked through the Zoom Player specs (haven't actually used it yet) and saw that it supports event notifications, letting you execute external programs before a movie is started (they mention automated masking control). This brings to mind the possibility of creating custom calibrations on a per-movie basis and switching them automatically as you insert the disc. You could customize contrast and brightness settigs, gamma, video mode, zoom mode, etc. I did some quick searching through the ZP forums but didn't see this specific issue mentioned. If I end up setting up a HTPC I might play with that some.

Wayne..............

Not that it helps........., but I have a Gateway 901X running MCE 2004 connected to by BenQ 8700+. I have it connected via the DVI port through a Gefen DVI switcher to the BenQ.

If I leave the Gefen switched so that it is on the Gateway's DVI port while the projector is off, many times when I boot up the projector it does not show any signal. It just sits there telling me it is searching the DVI connection and not finding anything. Most of the time I can get the signal back up by switching the Gefen to the DTV HD box port and then going back to the computer port and by moving the mouse. Occasionally when I switch to the DTV HD box it won't find a signal there either.... and I have to switch back and forth a couple of times or occasionally reboot the computer before it can find the signals.

Thankfully it always does eventually find the signal, but I think there must be something "different" about projectors and their DVI ports than standard computer monitors. So it may be that the H31 is just a bit more "sensitive" to this issue than my BenQ, but at least these two do have the occasional "issue." Now the fact that yours does not come back after a re-boot of the computer (or several re-boots) would indicate that there is definately some type of a synch/handshake issue going on. Perhaps some engineer can tell us if the digital video signal coming from a PC's video card is inherently different somehow than the video signal coming from a DVD player.

Perhaps you should start a post over in the HTPC forum and see if the folks over there have any idea's or experience.

ps. the Gateway 901X uses the ATI 9800Pro video card

Wayne & HiHoStevo,

I've never been able to get my H31 to boot up digitally.
I've tried three different PC's all Nvidia (ti4200, 5200 & my BFG 5900).
Never a digital signal detected.

It works fine on DVI-A but I wonder if the PQ is better on DVI-D?
Wayne it sounds like you can get DVI-A when your digital drops out - is the PQ truly better with digital or is beating one's head against this wall just for the sake of getting it to work?

I have posted many threads in the HTPC area about this, maybe I am not wording it right or something but it seems like there isn't much help over there.

Optoma tech support is a cruel joke. Their service sounds superb - getting a replacement unit out that fast, but their support staff doesn't seem to know that a DVI-A and a DVI-D signal are different.
Robert over there actually said something like: "all signals over a DVI cable are digital".

Maybe they have a tiered support system and I have only scratched the surface? (one can only hope)

the picture quality from a digital signal via htpc is WAY better than over an analog RGB signal. crisper, punchier and sharper with more detail. so it's totally worth being upset about.

it's my opinion that there are actually two problems going on here. one with regards to the units syncing digitally to a htpc and the second being the horizontal scan lines everybody is seeing with a htpc. the scan lines are seen both on a digital and analog signal. so the whole digital versus analog is not a valid argument for that. i haven't been frustrated by the digital syncing probem because i haven't fisched a dvi/hdmi cable through my ceiling yet and thus only have a VGA/RGB run to work with at the moment.

optoma really needs to take a closer look at this because telling us to purchase a stand-alone player is really not a valid solution. they're going to lose future business (read above, there's already one guy who won't upgrade to an H31 because of the line issue) and they're going to have a lot of unhappy people on their hands.

Originally posted by billymac
the picture quality from a digital signal via htpc is WAY better than over an analog RGB signal. [...] only have a VGA/RGB run to work with at the moment.
Just out of interest, what kind of cable are you running VGA over? Like has been said by others, the main reason digital can appear a lot punchier is because of default calibration settings for that input. Each input has its own calibrations. I don't buy the vastly superior picture over DVI thing because after calibrating both inputs, I'd say the difference between component and DVI is more subtle than striking. OTOH if you were running component on Film/Gamma1 and DVI on PC/Gamma4, yeah DVI would appear way punchier.

uwradu,
What would you say if the dvi and component(analog, but not vga) settings were similar for the comparison? I have done this, and had others in the room to confirm it. In almost every case, the dvi signal appeared sharper, cleaner, and "seemed" to be of higher resolution than the same signal on component. Dvi just brought out finer picture details, and appeared to have less video noise. Things looked more solid. I think others here will agree.

i'm not talking about component versus digital DVI

i'm talking analog RGB (VGA) versus digital DVI with a HTPC

and yes it is (in my opinion) a far superior image

my VGA cable is high quality heavy gauge/shielded

Originally posted by jedi35
What would you say if the dvi and component(analog, but not vga) settings were similar for the comparison?
Depends on what you mean by "similar": same settings, or calibrated to look similarly good on screen? It may very well take different settings to achieve a similar picture between component and DVI.

It sounds to me like some are lucky and get an H31 that can be detected by their HTPC as a digital display and even be detected as an Optoma H31 and others (me) get one that can not.

Then there are you half lucky people who have one that gets detected sometimes but can drop out for seemingly no reason at all.

What is there in the H31 that produces this perceived flakiness?

did robert ever call you back? or say he was going to rbastedo?

Stevo,

Thanks for the anecdote! It seems you have a somewhat similar issue but at least you get your image back eventually.

I believe that there is a problem with the H31 and digital signals, at least the ones coming from a computer.

I probably won't pick the minds of the HTPC forum gurus because it would seem that billymac has tried this with little help available.

rbastedo,

Rick, your problem is even worse than mine. At least I've had a taste of seeing what the H31 can do with a digital signal and believe me, billymac is right. This projector delivers the best images I've seen when fed a tweaked signal digitally.

billymac,

These issues might turn out to be similar to the buzzing issue and premature lamp failure on certain H30s. These may be model based problems occurring on some units. And you're right, there are two issues here. I know that if Optoma can't find a solution to these, I will probably not buy from them again when I upgrade regardless of how good their customer service is. I want a projector that works digitally with an HTPC period! No lines, no detection problems.

On a somewhat happier note, Optoma is sending me a loaner unit. The H57. This is what I can use while my second H31 is in for an 'evaluation'. This should be kind of interesting.

Wayne

Wayne,

Have fun "evaluating!"

The reason I throw my anecdotal experience into the mix, is it may be more than just an H31 problem. Perhaps there is something in the firmware/software of out HT projectors that is not reading the computer handshake properly....

Although that seems really weird as all of these HT projectors are based off of designs that were originally meant to be fed from computers to do presentations! So why in their HT iteration they would suddenly have "issues" with a PC signal is way outside my realm of understanding.

Perhaps something was changed in the firmware to be looking for the type of signal a DVD player puts out... it could be higher or lower voltage ... or sumtin or sumtin else!

mystery, do you have a case# or anything that us yanks can point to? we're not getting the same level of service down here in the states.

can you maybe mention to them that there are several people in the states affiliated with the AVS forum that are having the same issues and that they should contact Optoma US if they find a solution or uncover the problem? maybe that will help. did it sound like they were actually going to investigate the problem and communicate their findings?

Steve,

I think you've nailed it. There must be some firmware fix for this. Hopefully this endeavor will prove to be beneficial eventually.

billy,

I will fire off an email to the Director of Optoma Canada who has personally been in contact with me. He seems very intent on solving this problem. He doesn't even know about the line issue yet. At least, he hasn't heard about it from me. I feel it's more important to actually get a signal and then worry about the lines. :D

It's too bad that you guys in Stars and Stripes Land aren't getting this kind of attention with your complaints. Optoma is new in Canada and eager to build a reputation here in my opinion. Perhaps there can be some 'cross pollination' between the two countries and everyone can be happy.

Does the H57 (why do I think of ketchup every time I say or write that :) ),have a digital input? I hope so.

I just got this email from Optoma Canada:

'Hi Wayne,

I will send you the H57 as loaner unit tomorrow by UPS. Please send the H31 back to us for service or exchange upon the receipt of H57. We will figure out the digital signal problem before we decide to do repair or exchange. During the time we work with your H31, you can keep the H57 and enjoy the digital movies.

Please feel free to contact me if you have any question.

Regards.

Will Xing
Optoma Technology Canada, Inc.
905-882-4228'

I sure hope they can fix this because I want to deal with a company like this if I can and reward them in the future with another purchase because of their superb attention to this matter. At least here in Maple Leaf territory.

Wayne

Wow, they're really taking care of you. But you should have told them about the line issue though. What good is it if you get it back and your digital connection is there but you still see the lines! Back to the stand-alone you go!

Wayne...............

As you obviously have this manager's email address.......... why not email him a link to this thread???

Might prove very illuminating for him.... I know if I was in charge I would definitely be lurking on all the forums that pertained to my product!

There is a wealth of user information here that I would think any corporation would be thrilled to have.

I agree it's best to get them to concentrate on the digital detection problem first.
Most service departments get overloaded and if the problem gets too complex the issues can start to suffer from divided attention. ( for 18 years I was a field service tech )

FYI I got several responses from Rxxxxx @ optoma

to the popular:
"If you get a signal using a DVI-I cable, you are not getting an analog signal. Any DVI to DVI connection is a digital signal."

here's a nice one:
"Using your remote, choose the appropriate source. For example, for DVI, hit the DVI button."

When I told him I get no signal at all no matter what remote button is pressed with a DVI-D cable he responded:
"It says checking for analog signal because with any component connection, the signal starts off as an analog signal and is then converted into a digital signal."

I have tried to -not- contact Rxxxxx any more.

<edited to make this post a 'little nicer' - I know that not all of Optoma's support personel are just ignoring the problems>

I understand your point, but I'll say it again...what good is having a digital connection if there's a flaw with the picture?!

these are BOTH problems that need to be addressed in my opinion. Sounds like Wayne may find resolution. at least he's getting a response and will have something to watch while he waits.

rbastedo, you should really contact Robert via the phone and have him escelate to a product engineer. That's the only way you're going to get someone to listen to you. i recommend anybody else out there reading this who's having similar problems call them as well. they're less likely to do anything about it if they think it's one person with an isolated problem connected to a PC. too easy to point the finger and carry on. their engineers are aware of this thread and I'm pretty sure they lurk here from time to time, but it's obviously been a while.

they're going to lose the htpc crowd if they don't do something to fix it, there are those who prefer the PQ and flexability with a pc over a stand-alone plain and simple

Steve,

That's a very good idea about providing the Director with a link to this thread. I'll do that.

billy,

I believe that since they're going to be taking a critical look at my H31, that now is indeed the time to ask them to try to see the lines. They should have no problem finding them. Perhaps they might be able to kill two birds with one stone. I really feel though that last week while I was still getting a digital signal to the H31, I was getting very close to eliminating this issue by making the refresh rate a double multiple of 24 in PowerStrip. However, that might not work for everyone at that configuration. I sat for a long while on Friday night looking carefully and closely for the lines and only one popped up which I thought was quite promising.

But it shouldn't be up to us to play detective and the H31 should come to us out of the box ready to play without these issues.

I've just spent two hours this evening trying to get the Panny S97 to look somewhat similar to my HTPC. It is fairly close actually. No cigar but very good considering it doesn't have all of that powerful programming to help it along. It's a real nice player. The H31 is accepting an HDMI to DVI signal without a hitch from the S97. And I still cannot bring myself to like the upconversion with this player even though I prefer HD resolution sent to the H31 by my LG/Zenith player. I just really find that 480p looks closest to HTPC quality with the S97. A DVD player with a good working digital output was what I was really looking for and not necessarily the upconversion.

Wayne

Okay,

Here's a photo of our recently painted wall. See what you think.

Here's another view. Notice the pictures of Harold Lloyd and Laurel and Hardy. In this photo we have a bust on the wall of Stan Laurel and also of Oliver Hardy. I'm a big fan.

Another shot.

Last one. All of these photos were taken in the dark. Canon PowerShot A75 3.2 MP camera. The H31 was on at the time although you wouldn't know it.

Wayne...... thanks for sending the Director the link.... it will be interesting to see what happens if he starts "lurking" around AVS. I am a "believer" that Customer Service is the most important element in a good business plan.

Rbadasto.........

I think it is pretty obvious that Robert must be related to someone in senior management... and spends all of his free time with his grandfather's "pong" machine. (don't laugh... I actually used to own the original!)

thanks for sharing wayne. looks good. i've got flat white ceiling and light green eggshell walls. i get a little light reflection, okay quite a bit, but i live with it. :D

hiho and rbastedo, please don't take this the wrong way, but we need to be careful what we say about the folks at optoma, afterall they're the ones who we need help from. i've spoken with robert and he seemed sincere. i would agree that he's not the person who's going to solve our probem, but he's definitely a gatekeepr of sorts. i'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and hope he will follow-up and make sure a product engineer calls me back.

i feel bad for all the negative press in this thread lately and want to say it really is a TERRIFIC projector and throws a spectacular image. it's just that, currently, it has what I would consider a serious problem in regards to working with a PC. hopefully they'll take a good hard look at it. time will tell. Wayne please share with us any future correspondance with Optoma Canada. i'm curious to hear how your issue is resolved.

Mystery,
thanks for the posts. looks cool. Do you have any shots of the screen area?
Thanks

Billy...........

Robert "may" be sincere....., but his comments (not mine) would indicate that he is not actually "listening" or at least not "understanding" the problem... for heavens sake he doesn't even know the difference between digital and analog signals for crying out loud.

I have had this problem when trying to deal with tech support that has been farmed out overseas..... trying to communicate technical details in a language that is not native to you is extremely difficult.... I could not do it... and most of the folks who are trying to do it are very well educated in their country..., but accurate technical communication is very difficult....

But I digress... Optoma Tech Support for the USA is in the bay area... and there is absolutely no excuse to have someone answering tech support questions that does not know the difference between digital and analog signals no matter how "sincere" he might be.

This is NOT a mean spirited attack (anyway it is not meant to be and I apologise if I have come across that way) it is just that I have personally spent hours on the phone with incompetent tech support people trying to work my way up the ladder until I could talk to someone that actually knows what they are talking about. I no nothing of Optoma Tech Support.... other than most people say they are Very Genuinely interested and Helpful.... they have quickly replaced projectors for several people when they have had problems..... That is GREAT.... that is how it Should Be!

But that still does not justify a level one tech that is just reading a script from the computer, not kicking the problem upstairs to some that actually knows what they are talking about ... rather than diddling around sending nonsensical answers to real questions.

Sorry for getting off on a "rant" here.... I do not know Robert and he may be a wonderful peach of a guy........, but I have spent so many hours on the phone with totally inept tech support people in the computer industry that the emotions kind of spill out once I get started!

Tom/Guitarman has close ties with Optoma and they have responded admirably to issues with other projectors and I have no doubt that when the right person gets turned on to these issues that Optoma will work at resolving them. The difficulty sometimes is just getting the information to the right people. From my experience Optoma is Very Interested in being a top level producer and provider of front projectors and I am personally thrilled they are in the market!

Steve,

You're welcome. I'm happy to do all I can to help in sending the Director the link to this thread. It surely can't hurt.

billy,

Thanks for your comment about the pictures. We used to have off-white walls and a white ceiling. With your surroundings you should probably be using a gray screen such as a HCMW. This improves the perceived black levels and contrast ratio. This is exactly the screen which I used when my walls were like yours. When we painted the green color, the HCMW showed way too darkly and I moved to a High Power which I've been using ever since.

Like you, I am saddened by the negative comments published in this thread recently but alas although we must walk a fine line and not appear to be insulting to Optoma as you would agree I'm sure, I believe that Steve is also correct in that we must soldier on and expect nothing less than the level of service and technical expertise that I have been receiving from Optoma Canada. Hopefully this will extend to Optoma USA as well to those who haven't experienced it.

You are right in saying that this is a terrific pj. After all this I still would purchase it over again. I will keep the forum informed as to my progress with Optoma Canada.

digitalmonkeyman,

Thanks. I will take some photos of the screen area and post them soon.

Wayne

I am planning on mounting my H31 on the underside of a high shelf. Will the 1/4" x 20 bolt hole in the bottom of the H31 support the hanging weight of the projector?

Here is the content of my email to the Director of Optoma Canada for anyone who is interested. I will also provide his response.

"Good morning Lincoln,

I want to extend to you once again my sincere appreciation for your prompt and attentive consideration. I wish to at this time relate to you another matter which I've not discussed with Optoma Canada yet but is affecting many H31 owners in North America.

I belong to a group of dedicated Home Theatre enthusiasts who frequent an online discussion utility called the AVS Forum. It's probably the largest of it's kind in the world and there is a section of it which pertains to projectors which cost under $3500.00 U.S. I've been a member of this forum for quite a while now and it is extremely powerful in it's ability to either influence people to buy or to steer clear of any projector. Before I purchased the H31, I owned the Infocus X1 which I'm sure you've heard of and I bought both projectors after having spent considerable time on the forum researching them.

Many of us on the forum are experiencing one or more of the following issues:

1. The H31 will not be detected digitally at all by a computer no matter what is tried and will only display analog signals via a VGA cable or s-video etc... At least one person on the forum is experiencing this.

2. The H31 will initially exhibit a digital signal from DVI output of a computer to DVI input on the H31 but after a short time all of a sudden will lose this ability.

3. Here is the issue which is the most problematic because it appears no matter how the signal is sent from a computer to the H31. There is a what we call a 'tearing' condition. It's a scrolling horizontal line which appears regularly in certain scenes, especially scenes with lots of fast action and also slow or fast panning shots. In other words, it can and does appear quite often and is very annoying and disconcerting.
This happens over s-video, vga cable and DVI cable as well.

I have not explained this previously due to the fact that I felt the more important problem to deal with would be getting a reliable digital image to the H31 on a consistent basis. Then after that perhaps this tearing or line issue as we've come to call it could be addressed.
Lincoln, the group on the forum are aware of my dealings with Optoma Canada and I've praised you and your colleagues there profusely due to your excellent handling thus far of this matter.

They have asked me to specifically address this line issue with you at this time because sadly, our American friends are not getting quite the same level of satisfaction with customer service as I am here in Canada. It is their hope that if you are made aware of this issue, and because it is so widespread, perhaps you may be able to somehow inform your counterparts in the U.S. as to the seriousness of this problem and also how frustrated so many people are becoming with the H31.

This line issue I'm sure you'll be able to view once you hook up my H31 to any computer and play a movie. Especially check out Scene 7 in 'Troy' where there is quick swordplay on the Island and a group of horses run by. Pay particular attention to the area around the horses legs. You should easily see this scrolling line ripple upwards. I have had my computer inspected under warranty at Future Shop and they too saw these lines and were at a loss to explain them. They tried everything under the sun to get rid of them for me. They replaced my DVD drive with a brand new one. They swapped out video graphics cards for me 4 times with no change. They came to conclude that the issue didn't reside with the computer.

I had no such problem with my Infocus X1 using the same computer and the same programs. There is a member of the forum who currently owns the Infocus X1, the Panasonic AE700, and the Optoma H31 and it is only on the H31 that this line issue appears.

Please remember that these issues occur only when using HTPCs (Home Theater Personal Computers) which is just a fancy acronym for computers which have been dedicated to home theater use or dual use as in my case. DVD players do not exhibit any problem in either getting or keeping a digital signal over HDMI or DVI to the H31 nor does the line issue appear. It is strictly a phenomenon native to computer usage. Obviously, people ought to be able to use their H31s from either a laptop or tower without experiencing signal problems such as these.

Lincoln, thank you once again for your consideration. I thought that you ought to know the full story and that it isn't just me who's having an issue or two with the H31. We all by the way are otherwise absolutely thrilled with our purchase but these problems are definitely troubling to say the least.

The members of the forum have asked me also to provide you with a link to a very specific thread carrying a long and ongoing discussion about the H31. I think that you will find it fascinating should you find the time to look at it. It's very long but you'll get an idea of the frustration levels if you read the last several pages of it.

I have taken the liberty of also sending this email to Will Xing in Technical Support and also Ryan O'Leary in customer service. If they are also made aware of these problems then perhaps anyone else who happens to contact Optoma Canada due to these issues will feel that they are corresponding with someone who is aware of them. It's more reassuring to a customer when he feels that the company knows about a problem and that he isn't all alone.

Here is the link to the thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=479946

Thank you Lincoln,

Wayne"

Wow! The Director of Optoma Canada has responded to my email within about 45 minutes. You can't get any better service than that!

Here is his response:

"Hi Wayne:

Thank you for the additional feedback on the H31. I am forwarding these comments to our product management team. We will communicate with you on receipt of their response. From the text of your message below, it appears that the concerns you are relating occur only when connecting the H31 to an HTPC.

We will attempt to duplicate the issue(s) and will get back to you as soon as possible. Thank you for bringing these issues to our attention.

best regards,
Lincoln"

Just to add some information to the above posts..

The tearing CAN be produced without a PC. I tried hooking up my progressive-scan DVD player to the H31 using a component-to-VGA transcoder. The projector detected the VGA signal as "640x480", and tearing was easily seen. When the transcoder was removed, and the dvd player connected directly to the component connectors, the projector identified the component signal as "720x480", and there was no tearing. Since the transcoder does NOT alter the signal timing, I conclude that there must be something wrong with the sync detection on the VGA port.

While the VGA port IS mostly used for PC connection, it can also be used in this way, and even without the PC, the tearing problem occurs with "normal" commercial DVD-player signal timing.

nice note wayne

thanks a lot for doing that

can't wait to see if it helps and what their response is to you

thanks again

Excellent.....................

Great job, Wayne !

Also, please let us know how the H57 compares to the H31, after you have had a chance to play with it for a while.

Thanks ... /FP

Just got my new h31. I have had a lcd projector since 1991, A Sharp X10 or X100, I forget right now ( I watched 1000's of laserdics and a lot off dvd's ), but any way I made my decision base on this thread to buy a new H31. I am very pleased & impressed. There is no comparison from a sharp x10 to a H31. Better everything you can think of including the prices... $6600 suggested retail 1991 approx... cdn vs. alot less, and not to mention the ball bearing sized pixels on the X10 to not noticeable at the same 11' on the H31. "A BIG WWWOOOOOWWWWW! FACTOR", right out of the box. I noticed that the H30 has a regular vga input. What do I need to plug in my old laptop to the H31 (no DVI just the standard vga). Do I use the adapter that came with it dvi to d-sub and a special cable ?. Thanks for any info.

yes, just use the supplied dvi to vga adapter and you're good to go

potus,

That's very interesting! I think that I'll forward your observation to Optoma. It may help them to nail down what's wrong.

billy,

Thanks. You're welcome and I'm quite anxious as well to see if they can duplicate this anomaly there and also find a fix.

Steve,

Thanks. We're all in this together. Even those who don't YET own an H31! :D

Ford Prefect,

Appreciate that. I will keep us all informed as to the progress of this. I am actually looking forward to trying out the H57. It's a matterhorn. I'll probably have to drill new holes again in my little X1 mounting plate that I bought from Mandarax because I doubt that the spaces between the holes will match those of the H31. I am particularly curious to see whether the HTPC and the H57 will recognize each other and then keep the signal for the duration of the time that my H31 is in for evaluation. I also am interested to see if this tearing line issue is evident as well. I get it tomorrow.

cap4000,

Congratulations on your new toy. It's kind of refreshing will all of this sad talk about a couple of problems that have surfaced with the H31, to have someone new post an excited comment.

Take your vga cord and attach it to the provided VGA/DVI adapter. You may need a gender changer if the end of your VGA cable is male and the VGA side of the adapter is also male. You should have no problems in getting the H31 to see your analog signal in this manner. You will still probably notice this tearing issue though, I'm sad to say but if you don't, that's a bonus! Good luck and let us know how you make out.

The H31 is an awesome product and throws a super image from a computer. If you get into some serious tweaking with a program like Theatertek or ZoomPlayer in conjunction with post-processing like ffdshow, your jaw will hit the floor.

A quick word to the wise about mentioning pricing on the Forum. The Administrators and Moderators frown on that because of the conflict of interest due to the fact that AVS also sells projectors and solicits advertising from companies that market them as well. You can mention MSRP though. Just not deals.

Wayne

Thanks for the speedy reply. I guess D-Sub = vga, and I just looked at a parts catolog and m/m vga cables are common. My old projector was for home use only (not for comp.) It only has s-video and composite. I was looking at the back of the laptop and had seen a female plug only, anyway I'll figure it out. Thanks again. A 25' component cable just arrived today, can't wait to see the improvement from the 30' composite cable I was using last night.

oops about the price mention ( I edited it ) I thought it was dealer names you couldn't mention.

Just some bulb talk...
If I were to turn on my rear power switch on the old X10 which would put it in standy by mode, then immeadiately power up the projector I would get a double relay clicking (loud) then a burst of light then dull light to bright (if you can call 150 lumensce bright) til it warms up. If on the other hand I leave it powered in stand by mode ( like the H31) and turn it on I get a very nice soft touch (lite relay click) quiet power up. I am sure this is what gave me an incredible bulb life. I still have the same bulb that was in the pj when new well over 6000 (probally more) hours and it still works. I have been turning it on to stand by 5 to 10 minutes before I would want to use it

The h31 manual mentions to unplug if not using for a while. So I think one should leave it in stand by for 5 minutes or so before powering up after a re-plug...
May be it's not a factor with newer electronics.

If what I just typed is gobbleygoop, sorry

Thanks again for the 2 quik replys. I will pick up a new cable on the way home or an adapter for a cable I already have (6' monitor extender cable).

cap,

The H31 can be left plugged in most of the time. You only need to unplug it when you go away on a vacation or you're going to be not using it for several days or so. There's only a small trickle of electricity going into it when it's 'asleep'. This is what Tom/Guitarman has said that we should do and he ought to know as he has had communication with Optoma engineers. Apparently it's potentially better for the overall lamp life if you do it this way. This is the way Tom does it and he seems to never have a problem with bulbs blowing prematurely.

Wayne

Wayne.............

As you are an "expert" now on this HTPC stuff......... tell me what the difference is between using ZoomPlayer and ffdshow versus the software that comes in Windows Media Center Edition (I have 2004, but 05 is out now).

Thanks,

Steve

Steve,

You flatter me greatly. I really don't know much other than what I've seen with my own eyes and I can only tell you that after much painstaking reading over on the HTPC forum of AVS, I came to the conclusion that ZoomPlayer along with ffdshow and perhaps a bit of PowerStrip was the best way to view movies.

I've tried PowerDVD 5 and 6, WinDVD 5 and 6, and Windows Media Player. I also have the LG/Zenith upconverting player along with the Panasonic S97. There is nothing that I've tried that equals ZoomPlayer with ffdshow for sharpness, color saturation, detail and depth. That goes for any software to be found on the web and any stand alone DVD player. That's why I'm pursueing these issues so closely with Optoma. It's absolutely essential that I get the H31 working again with my HTPC, constantly and without tearing. Anything else is a comedown.

I used to think that HTPC users were hopeless geeks. That was until I delved into it myself to see what all the fuss was about. It's a pain in the gazoo compared to set top DVD players for convenience and it's an awful lot of work to set up and tweak, especially when you start from scratch as a wet behind the ears neophyte like I was and still consider myself to be in some ways.

But man, it's worth the effort and I miss the connection between the computer and the H31.

As for your question, I unfortunately don't know what the difference would be between ZoomPlayer with ffdshow and the Windows Media Center Edition 05 or 06 but I've never read anywhere on our forums about anything that came prepackaged that was worth much. The beauty about ZoomPlayer and ffdshow is that people keep on improving these programs and they are constantly evolving. The things that you can do to tweak in there are mind boggling.

I understand the ffdshow program to have elements in it based on the very expensive PhotoShop program used by professionals to improve portraits and such. This is the type of marvelous power available to people who are willing to put forth some effort.

What I would do is ask this question over on the HTPC forum. There are some real eggheads :) er, uh, I mean brilliant minds that could probably tell you more than you want to know.

All I know is, I doubt that anything could come close to ZoomPlayer or Theatertek.

Wayne

Thanks for the reply Wayne.............

I originally was using a Panasonic DVD player that came with the faroudja chip inside and thought it had a great image....

Then when the Gateway stores were going out of business (always looking for a deal) I sauntered around the store. Everything was still overpriced and was on my way out when I stumbled on a PC that looked like a Home Theater Receiver.... there was no info or data available so I started looking over the inputs and outputs on the rear of the unit... it looked "very" interesting.

I finally got someone to look up what it was (a Gateway 901X) and they pulled some information off the web for me as to the components.... I was quite surprised to find it was powered by an Intel P-4 running at either 3.0 or 3.2 Ghz... pretty reasonable (this was a little over a year ago), I could play a game or two on that... being that I was already looking for a projector... also surprised to find it had the auidgy2 sound card and an ATI Radeon 9800Pro video card... "very not bad." So I bought it for about half the original price (which was silly expensive) and brought it home. It came preloaded with Windows Media Center Edition 2004 version of the XP operating system, with which I had no experience.

As soon as I got my projector I was watching DVD's from my Panny/Faroudja player and thought everything was just stunning! Then I hooked up the Gateway with the DVI cable and put in the same movie... WOW..... it was like a high school football player trying to run the ball on the Pittsburgh Steelers..... Crushing. I could not believe how much better the DVD's looked on the computer...

It was amazingly easy to set up... just the normal settings window for 1280x720... then after you launch the Media Center software (push the green button on the remote control) it walks you through the initial setup.. including what type of display you have (4:3 or 16:9), what type or display TV, flat panel, projector,... then CRT projector or Digital, then it steps you through a calibration of Alignment, Contrast, Brightness (it even tells you to go back and double check as adjusting one can affect the other), Color, and anamorphic. Really simple and seems to be the same settings I get running the AVIA disk from the computer's DVD player.

Ever since ... this is how I have been watching DVD's on the projector and they look just terrific. It would be great to be able to try it side by side with the Zoomplayer/ffdshow combination and see what the difference is. Oh the Media Center also has the built in software to turn the computer into a DVR (Tivo), play CD's, show sideshows, watch TV (has an internal tuner card.. though it is not HD... I am going to pull the modem card and slip and HD card in there one of these days), and probably other stuff that I cannot even think of because I have never used it!

I will lurk around the HTPC area and see if I can drum up any comments... although they would probably hate something that worked so easily!

Steve,

I had no idea that the Windows Media Center was as cool as that. I thought it was possibly a gimmick like 'WebTV' which I owned several years ago and was a reasonable facsimile of a computer but no cigar.

It sounds like it's a nice system. Upon getting our P4 last fall, when I tried a DVD out on the X1 for the first time I was also floored at how nice it looked when compared to my LG/Zenith upconverting player which I had thought was extremely nice. This was using the software that had come with it. That was PowerDVD. I had no idea that this was only the beginning and that images from a computer could get better, much better.

It was only after investigating the ZoomPlayer program with ffdshow that I realized what I had thought of as magnificent was just good and what I had thought was good was in comparison almost intolerable when comparing ZoomPlayer to PowerDVD to the LG/Zenith player.

I'm not sure what software your running that's proprietary to your Windows Media Center but I'd almost be certain that you'll see the difference between what you're running now and TheaterTek or ZoomPlayer. Try to find someone near you who is using it or if you have a computer with a DVD drive that's powerful enough you can download ZoomPlayer yourself and also ffdshow and give it a try. I can point you to an excellent beginner's tutorial that will send you on your way if you're interested. Just let me know. I don't think that you'll be sorry. Unless you try to hook it up via DVI to an H31...:D

Wayne

Has anyone tried hooking up their mind-bogglingly fantastic HTPCs to the H31 via component?

They'd only be mind-bogglingly average if we did that. :)

Hello, my 1st message, but not first visit here in forum. :)

I ordered today H31(here in Finland named H30A) and i have Yamakawa 365 dvd-player.

I want to "feed" pj 1:1 = 854x480 resolution. That DVD-Player includes Custom Resolution options.

My question, is here anyone with same setup? I want to know already what parameters are working and best for that player to feed H31.
I come to use DVI and only PAL(R2) movies.

Sorry my bad english, but i think you all understand what i meaned to say. :(

Originally posted by Mika J.S.
Hello, my 1st message, but not first visit here in forum. :)

I ordered today H31(here in Finland named H30A) and i have Yamakawa 365 dvd-player.

I want to "feed" pj 1:1 = 854x480 resolution. That DVD-Player includes Custom Resolution options.

My question, is here anyone with same setup? I want to know already what parameters are working and best for that player to feed H31.
I come to use DVI and only PAL(R2) movies.

Sorry my bad english, but i think you all understand what i meaned to say. :(

Well, PAL is 576 lines of resolution while over here in North America we have the NTSC 480 line standard, hence everyone's desire to 1:1 pixel map to the 854x480 number.

If your only using PAL movies (576 lines), you can't do 1:1 pixel mapping on the H31. To do that, you would need a matterhorn resolution projector (576 lines), like a Optoma H57, benq PE7800, etc.

Fleaman

Originally posted by mystery
They'd only be mind-bogglingly average if we did that. :)

Ah, so HTPC improvements are only as good as the improvement of DVI over component? My mind is no longer boggled. (and no longer itchin for HTPC!)

Seriously though, you might be surprised how GOOD a component signal can be. If HTPC processing provides improvements to the source material, these improvement should be noticable via component. AND you may find that properly processed component signal, when viewed on the H31 may surpass what is currently available via DVI (due to H31 problems with that input...) At least there won't be tearing.

The main problems with component vs. DVI are:
1) extra D/A-A/D conversion
2) degradation/distortion of analog signal

If you have good quality cables, #2 can be effectively eliminated, and if you have a display device that has decent A/D converters, and can properly sync to the analog signal, #1 can also be dramatically reduced. Under the right conditions, you should be able to come very close to DVI. Particularly if your output resolution is 480p (lower bandwidth reduces signal degradation and syncing issues.) Of course, DVI is preferable because it is not so finicky. But you can (theoretically) get very good results via a component connection.