Most likely they've implemented 2:2 pulldown detection only for PAL encoded DVDs, hence the zone plate on AVIA (which is NTSC) and the HQV will fail. For a sythetic test you should use the PAL version of DVE which includes the Fresnel movine zone plate in a 2:2 cadence, supposedely generated in frame rate motion.

I did some further testing, and it does seem that the OPDV971H is not flagging 2:2 cadence on NTSC discs. It will properly read it on PAL discs, but not NTSC. So you were correct in your assumption about the Video 2 mode.

and we aren't going to stop anytime soon

Wow!

That line makes me smile:)

I too was mightily impressed with OPPO's *real* answer to my question. Not only was it on-the-mark technically, but it was substantive and comprehensive beyond the call of "customer satisfaction".

That goes a long way to easing my zooming pain...I know that when the OPPO guys are able, they'll impliment the Faroudja zoom we're waiting for.



NEW QUESTION:

How will OPPO handle 2:2 cadence of 30 fps material like Oklahoma? It's an NTSC DVD...

That is the single most impressive reply from a customer service representative that I've ever seen or heard about.

I'll buy everything Oppo puts out.AMEN!

Winbase Electronics Corp, the company that built the DV971H, now shows two new upscaling players with HDMI on their site, the DV998 and DV999. The DV971 wasn't there any longer. Does anybody know if Oppo will market these players here? The only apparent difference I could see was the DV999 adds SACD. Here is a link to the DV998 and the DV999 can be found on the same site.

http://winbase.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008807066462/ProductDetail/Home-DVD/product_id-1000368531/action-GetProduct.htm

Chris

Winbase Electronics Corp, the company that built the DV971H, now shows two new upscaling players with HDMI on their site, the DV998 and DV999. The DV971 wasn't there any longer. Does anybody know if Oppo will market these players here? The only apparent difference I could see was the DV999 adds SACD. Here is a link to the DV998 and the DV999 can be found on the same site.Thanks Chris. Man, nothing gets by the beady eyes of our forum members!

Winbase Electronics Corp, the company that built the DV971H, now shows two new upscaling players with HDMI on their site, the DV998 and DV999. The DV971 wasn't there any longer. Does anybody know if Oppo will market these players here? The only apparent difference I could see was the DV999 adds SACD. Here is a link to the DV998 and the DV999 can be found on the same site.

http://winbase.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008807066462/ProductDetail/Home-DVD/product_id-1000368531/action-GetProduct.htm

Chris

OPPO has mentioned that a new player was in the works, but did not really elaberate beyond "the industry is moving towards HDMI " and " our component support was lacking in the past." Probably it will just be a 971H with HDMI and component based upconversion inside of a new shell.

Well there's the Oppo DW9916 DVI DVD recorder that doesn't have DVI output. :)
http://www.oppodigital.com/opdw9916.html

(yes, I know probaby typo, and they probably meant DV. There isn't even a component output)

I sure wouldn't mind an OPPO that looks as good as the 971H, has no lip sync issue, no underscan and plays SACD's, I've got at least 30 or more SACD's kickin around from when I had SACD players..

Winbase Electronics Corp, the company that built the DV971H, now shows two new upscaling players with HDMI on their site, the DV998 and DV999. The DV971 wasn't there any longer. Does anybody know if Oppo will market these players here? The only apparent difference I could see was the DV999 adds SACD. Here is a link to the DV998 and the DV999 can be found on the same site.

http://winbase.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008807066462/ProductDetail/Home-DVD/product_id-1000368531/action-GetProduct.htm

Chris

I've been interested in buying one of these players and have been trying to get opinions of the 971 vs. the soney 3100 es and the denon 3910.

I asked the OPPO CS about when they would be coming out with a new player, but they said it wouldn't be until early in the new year...When I looked at the Winbase website, none of the players mention the Faroujda chip. I wonder if OPPO will be sticking with this chip or moving on to others. Maybe the Teranex chip will be coming down in price and be found in more reasonable priced players soon.

Rahi

A question (no doubt oft asked) for the calibration experts with respect to black levels (pertinant again now the oppo's standard brightness level appears to be -3):

What is the most reliable guide to black levels? Is it the pluge test (DVE 3 lines, the 2% should be barely visible)? Or, is it it the grayscale ramps, where each level of black and white should be distiguishable? Or is it some kind of compromise?

I find that when I set black levels on the pluge they look crushed on the grey scale and when I set them to the greyscale ramps then the third btb line is clearly visible on the pluge!?

Contrast is as high as I can get it without losing the gradation on the whites (is there good advice on setting white levels for LCD pjs? Both Avia and DVE seem to present more warnings to CRT users than answers to that question).

Set up is an oppo to ae700, DVI to HDMI, screen is matt white with no gain.

Any help much appreciated.

Dave

Hello Forum...I just upgraded my BBK with the new software. Now the player has "changed"
to an Oppo with regard to the menus! Will this have any impact on....ah...anything/everything?

Anders.

Now that the Oppo has introduced me to Region free viewing I need some good suggestions for titles not available in the U.S. Also, can anyone recommend a good web sight for R2 DVD reviews and coming soon news?

I did some further testing, and it does seem that the OPDV971H is not flagging 2:2 cadence on NTSC discs. It will properly read it on PAL discs, but not NTSC. So you were correct in your assumption about the Video 2 mode.

I agree...and that was my point in my earlier post about this...I hope they can get 2:2 working on NTSC discs. With that fixed and an improved zoom.....nothing will touch this player. It is already an amazing value.

I asked the OPPO CS about when they would be coming out with a new player, but they said it wouldn't be until early in the new year.

The new product will be a DVD recorder/player. There are others in the works as well.

I wonder if OPPO will be sticking with this chip or moving on to others. Maybe the Teranex chip will be coming down in price and be found in more reasonable priced players soon.

Rahi

That's a good question. Based on the problems they've had dealing with Faroudja on the nodes and source code, I don't think they're particularly keen on sticking with them when they move upscale with a new model.

Now that the Oppo has introduced me to Region free viewing I need some good suggestions for titles not available in the U.S. Also, can anyone recommend a good web sight for R2 DVD reviews and coming soon news?

Look at the international forum and reviews on dvdtalk.com for lots of information about multi-region DVDs and best places to buy.

Hello Forum...I just upgraded my BBK with the new software. Now the player has "changed"
to an Oppo with regard to the menus! Will this have any impact on....ah...anything/everything?

Anders.

You will not beable to use the SCART interface or the Q-Play feature. All other functionality should be the same. Emphasis on "should".

Hello guys. I have a question and I hope you can help me out: I have a Sony KDF-42WE655 (HDMI) and I would like to know if it would be "wise" to wait until a new Oppo is released with HDMI, or buy the one that it's available now since it comes with a DVI-HDMI cable? I don't know how much of a difference that would make (HDMI-HDMI cable vs. DVI-HDMI cable). The other reason why I want the Oppo is because it can play Divx files, so your comments there would be appreciated as well.

Thank you.


PS: Any tips/links on how to tweak my Sony TV would be most welcomed as well.

Neuromancer...scart works fine! extra Component output! Works great for me!

Now that the Oppo has introduced me to Region free viewing I need some good suggestions for titles not available in the U.S. Also, can anyone recommend a good web sight for R2 DVD reviews and coming soon news?


Try dvdbeaver.com great reviews and comparisons!

What is the most reliable guide to black levels? Is it the pluge test (DVE 3 lines, the 2% should be barely visible)? Or, is it it the grayscale ramps, where each level of black and white should be distiguishable? Or is it some kind of compromise?

I find that when I set black levels on the pluge they look crushed on the grey scale and when I set them to the greyscale ramps then the third btb line is clearly visible on the pluge!?

Contrast is as high as I can get it without losing the gradation on the whites (is there good advice on setting white levels for LCD pjs? Both Avia and DVE seem to present more warnings to CRT users than answers to that question).

Dave
Greetings,
I have wondered about that myself lately, since my Samsung hlp-5674 was ISF calibrated with the old firmware.
In speaking with my calibrator, he mentioned that in a recent Oppo/Samsung calibration the Oppo needed to be set at -3 with the new firmware and recommended I use the DVE patterns to check. The gray scale ramp steps needed to have the brightness set to -3 and the contrast set to -1 to make that pattern look correct.
I probably should have looked at the both of the pluge patterns before I upgraded the firmware, but since the -3 brightness setting looked correct I also did the contrast setting to -1 on my own. That made both the black and white level seem accurate on the steps pattern, at least to my eyes. YMMV,
b.

alxrey,

If you don't need a new DVD player, are not hurting for a new electronic device, or find that having your audio and video being passed through the same cable is important, then I would wait.

The benefits of HDMI are:
HDMI can have both an audio (up to 5.1) and video signal.

HDMI is a 12-bit interface. Although DVDs are encoded at 8-bit (which is also what DVI is), the extra bit information can be used for better color correction (particularly non-linear gamma correction and information redundency (great for longer cable threading). There are some other benefits, but I am at a loss right now.

Neuromancer...scart works fine! extra Component output! Works great for me!

I could have sworn SCART was turned off when using the OPPO firmware. I stand corrected.

Neuromancer...it works fine! On the BBK you can choose your output...rgb OR comp on the scart. I chose comp., and it works.

Based on the problems they've had dealing with Faroudja on the nodes and source code, I don't think they're particularly keen on sticking with them when they move upscale with a new model. Maybe so, but moving to a new chip always means a new learning curve, and new problems to deal with.

Well there's the Oppo DW9916 DVI DVD recorder that doesn't have DVI output. :)
http://www.oppodigital.com/opdw9916.html

(yes, I know probaby typo, and they probably meant DV. There isn't even a component output)

Specs don't list component out, but Features does. Doesn't matter to me - I'll use the 971 to watch the DVDs. I'm holding off on a burner until I see the final opinions on Oppo's offering. It's got DV in which means I can record directly from my camcorder. And it's got a built in tuner. Not bad. Their portable player looks pretty good from the Feature set. Anybody know when that is icoming out?

A search on "Teranex" came up with some interesting and impressive stuff. However, I was rather surprised to see that when guidetohometheater.com (http://www.guidetohometheater.com/videoprojectors/66/index1.html) reviewed the extremely expensive (multi-thousand dollar) Teranex HDX Cinema MX video processor module, they reported LIP-SYNC delay! It does provide audio inputs to compensate for this, but it just goes to show, that even the highest-performance processors are not immune to lip-sync problems. Buffering of video frames is a necessary evil in the A/V processing arena, and the only solution, is audio buffering to compensate.
Less rare was the lip-sync delay caused by the Teranex processor. Ever-present and significant, it put the picture about four frames behind the sound (this varied a bit with the selected scan rate). Fortunately, the AES/EBU audio inputs of the Teranex are designed to compensate for this. Alternately, you could use a surround-sound processor with up to 200 milliseconds of selectable lip-sync delay. This could be more convenient than running a digital audio lead to the Teranex and back. Gary

Discovered something completely by accident tonight. It seems that OPPO included OGG/OGM audio/video support in the new firmware, but did not include it in their release notes.

I played a couple of OGG audio files, as well as some OGM video files I had lying around. I am going to do some more testing with OGM tonight to see how many audio streams and subtitles I can get to work on the OPPO.

EDIT:

I did a little more OGM testing. I could switch between the Audio streams (I only have files that contain 2) but I couldn't get any of the subtitles to work.

Hello Forum...just communicated with CS at Oppo. They are working on a firmware update to correct PAL sync ing´problems, so that those of you, whom have problems with the picture being 1cm. to the left or right, are in luck! Is that great or what? .

Neuromancer...scart works fine! extra Component output! Works great for me!
andersls,
the BBK has an option to toggle between YUV and RGB out on both component and Scart output, default was YUV on the outputs. That option is not in the setup-menue of the Oppo. How do you achieve RGB on the scart output? Or haven't you used that at all?

And, please, what is Q-Play?

Joerg

Hallo Joerg...well, I have a BBK machine, but when I updated it...the BBK "changed" to an Oppo! Before all this, I had used the scart configured as rgb...when I uploaded the new software, the scart output "changed" to an YUV output! I actually needed 2 YUV outputs,
so I am pretty happy!

Q-play......"quick-play"????? I have no idea....I never use "funny-functions",...well almost never!-)

...when I uploaded the new software, the scart output "changed" to an YUV output!...

That's what I feared would happen... (I have an Oppo and a BBK sitting here). Since BBK is said to be the same company, but only is marketing the player under the name Oppo in the US, I strongly suppose the player is the same, but for sure has different firmware (versions display differntly named). When I spoke to a BBK representative, he mentioned, that they would update their firmware some time, but he did not mention, when.
I would hate loosing the YUV/RGB switch option, since then I would loose the chance to run via RGB to my "everyday" TV-Set when not watching big-screen in the evenings.

Does anyone know, how "far away" BBK is from the current Oppo-firmware-standard (for example in 2:2 cadence support, PAL-issues, underscanning etc.? btw., the BBK has no video2 option, no DIVx rights management)

Or are these firmwares (at least, BBK is marketed ESPECIALLY for Europe) very different and the BBK is the better player for PAL / 2:2 cadence already?

Are the same techs / support people working for BBK and Oppo

Is there a website for BBK with more info / download links etc.?


Regards
Joerg

addendum: when comparing component out between the BBK and the Oppo, the BBK has the better picture - color balance, which is mightily off with my Oppo, is much better with the BBK (both compared via YUV on my Sanyo Z4). Not as good as digital out, though ;)

Joerg...I waiting for the same info as you are! Does your tv have an yuv input? rgb...yuv are almost the same...my plasma accepts almost everything!
For me at least, it is not a problem.....quite the opposite actually....UFN!

Anders.

Anders

my TV only has SCART RGB input (and S-Video), so I am dependent on RGB-support, if I want to connect the Oppo / BBK.
Let's see, if anybody can come up with more info....

Joerg

Discovered something completely by accident tonight. It seems that OPPO included OGG/OGM audio/video support in the new firmware, but did not include it in their release notes.

Fantastic! Now I can burn a disc of all my Unreal Tournament 2004 music tracks and listen to them on the OPPO... ;)

-Toonces

Been busy and finally got around to testing the Oppo's black level against the Accupel HDG-3000.

With the new firmware the Oppo will match the reference RGB/digital black level of the Accupel's pluge pattern at (minus 3).

So on the BBK with Oppo firmware one can switch from RGB to YUV on scart and back? Which menu?

Regarding PAL 2:2 deinterlacing, I get the impression that when I use the player fresh, it doesn't do the zone plates ok, but when I used the setup menu and enable video 2 again or CSS off or sharpness on off again it does work. Just like the settings for brightness that is forgotten, it seems like the Video 2 is also forgotten?

Test yours > configure to video 2 > plug out plug it in > run the 2:2 test > result ...........
next change some settings (sharpness low worked for me once) run test again > result ........

So on the BBK with Oppo firmware one can switch from RGB to YUV on scart and back? Which menu?

Regarding PAL 2:2 deinterlacing, I get the impression that when I use the player fresh, it doesn't do the zone plates ok, but when I used the setup menu and enable video 2 again or CSS off or sharpness on off again it does work. Just like the settings for brightness that is forgotten, it seems like the Video 2 is also forgotten?

Test yours > configure to video 2 > plug out plug it in > run the 2:2 test > result ...........
next change some settings (sharpness low worked for me once) run test again > result ........

I will have to give it a test during lunch time.

Been busy and finally got around to testing the Oppo's black level against the Accupel HDG-3000.

With the new firmware the Oppo will match the reference RGB/digital black level of the Accupel's pluge pattern at (minus 3).Guitarman, thanks a STACK!

So that confirms our findings and makes it official: With the new firmware, the Oppo's brightness must be set to -3 to conform to the DVI standard for studio RGB black level (with the old firmware, it was +5).

Our defect list already reflects this condition, and we hope Oppo will correct it in the next firmware release.

Gary

-3? I thought it was now officially "0"??? Help!

? confused ?

-3? I thought it was now officially "0"??? Help!Oppo's release notes indicated that the previous +5 is now 0. But that isn't true. Correct black level is now at -3.

-3? I thought it was now officially "0"??? Help!

? confused ?


David,
Minus 3 will put the machine at spot on RGB/video black output or (16-235). Use your display to tune from there.

So I did some more HQV and AVIA Zone testing again and could not get them to lock despite following vjren's instructions. Perhaps I am doing something wrong, and someone else can either confirm, or deny, the ability to do 2:2 cadence on an NTSC disc by using the "PAL memory" trick.

Oppo's release notes indicated that the previous +5 is now 0. But that isn't true. Correct black level is now at -3.
What is meant by "correct" level?

If I set mine to -3 I can't see BTB using DVE even with my TV at max brightness. At -2 BTB just disappears.

So for my display, at least, -3 is too low.

The Accupel HDG-3000 can send reference brightness levels PC 0-255 or Video 16-235. The generators pluge pattern will reference match the chozen level.

What I did was set the generator to Digital/RGB video 16-235 black level. Then I started up the Oppo and used the Sound & Vision pluge pattern which is correct. I then used the Players brightness pattern until the left black bar dissapeared which would put it at the level the Accupel sent out

What's going on with your display I can't say, not passing black could be the cable or the display.

I've had it at -3 since I upgraded to the 1011 firmware. I was hoping they'd fix it with the next firmware, I guess they haven't yet with the 1022 firmware.

What is meant by "correct" level?

If I set mine to -3 I can't see BTB using DVE even with my TV at max brightness. At -2 BTB just disappears.

So for my display, at least, -3 is too low.Correct according to the DVI standard for studio RGB black level (digital 16).

But if your display needs a higher setting to do blacker than black, you may need to adjust it. Note though, that most digital displays do not use blacker-than black.

GSB, that's right I should hv thought of it. His display is probably looking for PC 0-255. I can set the Accupel to PC video level and run the same test with the Oppo. Next time

What is meant by "correct" level?

If I set mine to -3 I can't see BTB using DVE even with my TV at max brightness. At -2 BTB just disappears.

So for my display, at least, -3 is too low.

Contrast (picture) and black level (brightness) are related. Adjusting one affects the other. What's your display's "Picture" adjutstment set to? On my Sony LCD RP, I have "Picture" set to almost full scale. Try adjusting "Picture" first and then go back and adjust your "Brightness". Hopefully this helps. Also calibrate when lighting conditions are typical for when you do most of your tv viewing.

Anybody know which scale (video or PC) the BenQ 8700+ DLP projector prefers? Is the OPPO outputting the DVI-video scale? Is this switchable between the two?

BTW, why even have two dvi different scales? is there a legitimate reason that "they" chose to do this???

Anybody know which scale (video or PC) the BenQ 8700+ DLP projector prefers? Is the OPPO outputting the DVI-video scale? Is this switchable between the two?

BTW, why even have two dvi different scales? is there a legitimate reason that "they" chose to do this???I don't know about the BenQ, but DLP is 100% digital and may work with either scale.

There is legitimate reason for the 2 scales. They have always been a hotbed of contention, because PC designers decided to buck the TV system and go with their own standard.

PC RGB uses the digital values 0-255, where 0 represents black, and 255 represents white.

Video RGB uses the same digital values 0-255, but 16 represents black, and 235 represents white. The values 0-16 and 236-255 represent blacker-than-black and whiter-than-white, respectively.

BTB and WTW has always been used in the analog TV system. To some extent, CRT TV's rely on BTB and WTW to display images correctly (fully digital displays do not). BTB and WTW was carried over to DVD, and it became known as the Video RGB standard.

A DVD player can easily convert the Video RGB on a DVD, to PC RGB, but a small amount of banding results, so the better players do not convert. The diisplay must be calibrated to the player.

Anybody know which scale (video or PC) the BenQ 8700+ DLP projector prefers? Is the OPPO outputting the DVI-video scale? Is this switchable between the two?

BTW, why even have two dvi different scales? is there a legitimate reason that "they" chose to do this???


Probably video. One way to test is to set the Oppo at minus 3. If you can adjust the birghtness level on the display ok, then you're at Video level with the BenQ
Bank on it. ;)

Guys,

I am trying to find a good progresive/upscaler DVD player. Have heard that Denon and Oppo are the best out there... I started reading this thread, but after reaching page 3 became cross-eyed, and hadn't yet found any useful info...

Would any of the expert videophiles/Oppo owners please give some quick feedback. Also, could you let me know what other DVD players I should look into?

Thanks!

Guys,

I am trying to find a good progresive/upscaler DVD player. Have heard that Denon and Oppo are the best out there... I started reading this thread, but after reaching page 3 became cross-eyed, and hadn't yet found any useful info...

Would any of the expert videophiles/Oppo owners please give some quick feedback. Also, could you let me know what other DVD players I should look into?

Thanks!

You don't really state much info other than the fact that you're looking for a dvd player. You can't go wrong with either as both use Faroudja processing. I went with the Oppo because it is region free, plays divx, has a loader thats read all my dvdr and has great customer support with constant firmware updates.

Just make sure you're planning on using dvi/hdmi for the scalled output...the OPPO can only do 480i out of the analog video connections.

The oppo is also region free and plays/can output PAL.

That's a major plus for many users, aside from the great PQ and affordable price.

SpiffX,

To bounce off of Ja Phule, I went with the OPPO for the same reasons, plus when I bought it it was 100 bucks cheaper than the Denon 1920.

It would be helpful if you included information such as television type, model, manufacturer, viewing habits, etc. These factors can greatly incluence your purchasing decision.

So on the BBK with Oppo firmware one can switch from RGB to YUV on scart and back? Which menu?

Nope, not right - unfortunately. Only BBK's own firmware can do that, as soon, as you flash a BBK with Oppo-firmware, that choice is gone. I suggested to Oppo service to incorporate that as well in their firmware, and they said they are looking into the matter.
BTW: BBK-firmware can be downloaded in the forum of livingcinema (NL):

http://www.livingcinema.nl/phpBB2/index.php

Joerg

Ja Phule, Neuromancer,

I just got my brand new 60" Sony SXRD yesterday. I currently own a Sony DVD player (not sure if it is progressive... probably not) and an XBOX. I like to watch DVD movies every once in a while, but when I do, I want to have the best possible PQ. The Sony SXRD's are capable of 1080p (1920x1080 native resolution), but cannot receive 1080p through its HDMI inputs (they can receive 720p and 1080i though). I would like to get a DVD player which would send 720p or 1080i to my TV, with the minimum possible amount of arctifacts, distorsion, etc (BTW, what is MB???). I am not sure what macroblocking is, but I don't want it either... :D am I asking too much from a $199 player?

Thanks guys!

(BTW, what is MB???). I am not sure what macroblocking is, but I don't want it either... :D am I asking too much from a $199 player?Yes. MB is a tradeoff for superb de-interlacing and scaling in this price range.

Faroudja's bug is called "macroblock enhance".

Macroblocking appears on some DVD’s as an artifact of heavy MPEG compression. It looks like patches of moving/pulsating off-color blocks, and is most often seen on background walls and floors, in mist, and in fade-in/fade-out scenes. It is normally very subtle, but for some reason, the Faroudja chip exaggerates it. This bug appears to be very display dependant, so it only becomes distracting on some displays. This problem has already been reduced to some degree with the "Truelife" and "Noise Reduction" options. Panasonic worked with Faroudja to reduce this problem in the S97 player, but it seems to have no significant advantage over the Oppo in this area. Apparently, it cannot be fixed altogether, so it remains a trade-off with the use of this otherwise fantastic de-interlacing and scaling chip.

BTW, where did you guys purchase your Oppo's? Is oppodigital.com a reliable on-line store? I looked for US shipping charges all over their site, but could not find anything (only international shipping charges are posted). If any of you has purchased from oppodigital.com, I would be very grateful if you could let me know how much were your total charges, and if their delivery was timely and trouble free.

Thanks again!

Yes. MB is a tradeoff for superb de-interlacing and scaling in this price range.

Faroudja's bug is called "macroblock enhance".

Macroblocking appears on some DVD’s as an artifact of heavy MPEG compression. It looks like patches of moving/pulsating off-color blocks, and is most often seen on background walls and floors, in mist, and in fade-in/fade-out scenes. It is normally very subtle, but for some reason, the Faroudja chip exaggerates it. This bug appears to be very display dependant, so it only becomes distracting on some displays. This problem has already been reduced to some degree with the "Truelife" and "Noise Reduction" options. Panasonic worked with Faroudja to reduce this problem in the S97 player, but it seems to have no significant advantage over the Oppo in this area. Apparently, it cannot be fixed altogether, so it remains a trade-off with the use of this otherwise fantastic de-interlacing and scaling chip.

So, is there something better, or is this it? From what I have been reading, Faroudja is the best upscaling chip... am I right? Since MB comes from the Faroudja chip, any other player using it will also have the problem, right?

So back to my original question... is the Denon, Panny, or Sammy any better in terms of PQ and/or SQ? Or should I just go for the Oppo?

Thanks GSB!

Yes. MB is a tradeoff for superb de-interlacing and scaling in this price range.

Faroudja's bug is called "macroblock enhance".

Macroblocking appears on some DVD’s as an artifact of heavy MPEG compression. It looks like patches of moving/pulsating off-color blocks, and is most often seen on background walls and floors, in mist, and in fade-in/fade-out scenes. It is normally very subtle, but for some reason, the Faroudja chip exaggerates it. This bug appears to be very display dependant, so it only becomes distracting on some displays. This problem has already been reduced to some degree with the "Truelife" and "Noise Reduction" options. Panasonic worked with Faroudja to reduce this problem in the S97 player, but it seems to have no significant advantage over the Oppo in this area. Apparently, it cannot be fixed altogether, so it remains a trade-off with the use of this otherwise fantastic de-interlacing and scaling chip.

So Faroudja's MB bug is display dependant... has anyone here tried the Oppo, or any other Faroudja chip DVD player with a Sony SXRB?

SpiffX,

There are three things you need to concern yourself with when considering the OPPO.

1. Macroblocking. GSB has already addressed this.

2. Audio-sync errors. Depending on the source material and the receiving equipement, you may experience audio-sync errors. OPPO has created an audio-delay feature, but it is litmited to a maximum of 50ms. On some displays, especially DLPs, this delay functionality is not enough. However, if you will be using an external receiver to drive the audio, you can use its controls to add additional delay to the audio stream.

3. Underscanning. Currently, the OPPO underscans slightly. This is mainly a problem for Plasma users (burn in risk), but it can be a visual annoyance to some users. This will most likely be addressed by the next OPPO firmware.

BTW, where did you guys purchase your Oppo's? Is oppodigital.com a reliable on-line store? I looked for US shipping charges all over their site, but could not find anything (only international shipping charges are posted). If any of you has purchased from oppodigital.com, I would be very grateful if you could let me know how much were your total charges, and if their delivery was timely and trouble free.

Thanks again!

Their website is very reliable. Standard shipping is 14.49, Expedited shipping is 26.60. If you live in California you will also have to pay sales tax. You can also access a list of their e-tailers by clicking on the "Where to Buy" button at the bottom of their website.

SpiffX,



2. Audio-sync errors. Depending on the source material and the receiving equipement, you may experience audio-sync errors. OPPO has created an audio-delay feature, but it is litmited to a maximum of 50ms. On some displays, especially DLPs, this delay functionality is not enough. However, if you will be using an external receiver to drive the audio, you can use its controls to add additional delay to the audio stream.


Thankfully this audio-synch problem seems to be system dependent to some degree. There are a great many of us who (knock on wood) have not experienced this problem. Others report seeing it on some title's and not on others... for some they start out without any delay, but a small delay starts to creep in the longer they watch the movie... in this case pausing (potty break) and restarting the movie seems to solve the problem...... in other words this is one of those inconsistent problems that could be difficult to deal with.

The reason I purchased the Oppo was:

1. The great picture quality though the DVI out.

2. Incredible customer support by Oppo... this is an item sorely lacking in most companies, so I was thrilled to find one that realized it's importance.

So, is there something better, or is this it? From what I have been reading, Faroudja is the best upscaling chip... am I right? Since MB comes from the Faroudja chip, any other player using it will also have the problem, right?

So back to my original question... is the Denon, Panny, or Sammy any better in terms of PQ and/or SQ? Or should I just go for the Oppo?

Thanks GSB!Yes, any player using the Faroudja chip suffers with MB to some degree. But it does depend on your display. You'd be the first on our threads to try it with an SXRD. By far the most important thing you can do to reduce MB, is properly calibrate your display to the player's output. MB on my DLP was terrible until I calibrated it. Now I seldom notice it, unless the DVD is REALLY badly compressed - but in that case I can see the same MB on my old 480i player connected to a hokey old CRT TV!

For the money, your choices are pretty much limited to the players you have mentioned. The Sony 975 does not use the Faroudja chip, so no MB, but its de-interlacing is not as good. I'd definitely rule out the Sammy, and swing for the Oppo because of its performance, the awesome customer service, and regular firmware upgrades. They are serious about making this player as good as it can be. The latest upgrade gave us some settings to play with, that can help with macroblocking too.

The lip-sync issue depends a lot on the video delay in your display too. If your display has no lag, you may never notice lip-sync problems, unless the lip-sync problem is recorded on the disk.

GSB, that's right I should hv thought of it. His display is probably looking for PC 0-255. I can set the Accupel to PC video level and run the same test with the Oppo. Next timeGuitarman, I look forward very much to your results.

You know, a PC does 0-255 too, so for this test, it should give the same results as the Accupel.

SpiffX,

There are three things you need to concern yourself with when considering the OPPO.

1. Macroblocking. GSB has already addressed this.

2. Audio-sync errors. Depending on the source material and the receiving equipement, you may experience audio-sync errors. OPPO has created an audio-delay feature, but it is litmited to a maximum of 50ms. On some displays, especially DLPs, this delay functionality is not enough. However, if you will be using an external receiver to drive the audio, you can use its controls to add additional delay to the audio stream.

3. Underscanning. Currently, the OPPO underscans slightly. This is mainly a problem for Plasma users (burn in risk), but it can be a visual annoyance to some users. This will most likely be addressed by the next OPPO firmware.Have been looking at the Oppo to go with my new 1130 Plasma... wondering *what* I need to be concerned about with "underscanning?"
Also, how suitable is the Oppo for audio only (music) playback?

Have been looking at the Oppo to go with my new 1130 Plasma... wondering *what* I need to be concerned about with "underscanning?"
Also, how suitable is the Oppo for audio only (music) playback?

With underscanning, your display will have small black boarders around the top, bottom, and sides, no matter what content you display using the 971H. Because of this, it is possible to burn in the black boarder.

Essentially, you will want to limit the length of time in which the 971H and the plasma are left on, and contrast and brigthness settings for the first 1000 hours of use. Most manufacturers recommend that you use half the desired brightness and contrast within the first 100 hours, and then keep it at 1/4 the desired level for the rest of the 900 hours. After 1000 hours, burn in is relatively hard to do.

Just don't push the contrast and brightness settings too hard when you first begin using the plasma and 971H. It is also recommended that you limit that amount of time you spend using the OPPO in conjunction with your plasma. There is no real optimal time frame, but I stayed away from 2 and a half (plus) hour movies when I first got the plasma and OPPO. I don't recall how long I did this, but it was well below 100 hours of use.

The OPPO is good for audio, but if you are very interested in music, I would go with the Denon 1920. Denon has a long pedigree of quality video and audio equipment.

SpiffX,

You may read about the Oppo here at the other thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=4924650&&#post4924650

Paul

If the Oppo underscans, then it can't be upscaling to 1080i. Right?

I am a bit confused here... do any of you have the Oppo connected to a set with 1080 lines of native resolution? Does the Oppo underscan in a display with 1080 lines of native resolution?

If the Oppo underscans, then it can't be upscaling to 1080i. Right?

I am a bit confused here... do any of you have the Oppo connected to a set with 1080 lines of native resolution? Does the Oppo underscan in a display with 1080 lines of native resolution?

It is upscaling to 1080i, but reducing the image slightly on all sides. OPPO has said that they will fix the issue in a future update.

I recently bought the Star Wars EP3 DVD (as I am sure more than a few other people have done.) Has any other Oppo owner noticed this?:

At the very beginning, after the familiar text crawl, the pan down to the large space battle... the actual pan down (past a sun setting behind Corsucant) to the Star Destroyer (and 2 fighters)... on the Oppo is kind of stuttery... as if the Oppo is having a hard time locking onto cadence or something. It's not a smooth pan, but jerks a couple times.

On the other (Pioneer) DVD player I have hooked up to my display, this pan is completely smooth.

Any idea what the cause of this might be? (Not a dirty disc, certainly.)

Kind of glad I have two DVD players... (albeit, it's a tiny problem.)

-Terry

Then, maybe it is just 1076i... until they fix it.

Re: EPIII - didn't notice a jitter, but I'll be sure to look out for it.

Meanwhile, anyone else look at the new QT7 720p/1080p trailers and kinda wish that we could just through a few switches and upload a new firmware and have them play full res on our TVs?

Sigh...

On an unrelated note, it's funny watching these trailers, we all know what happens to Kong (and, for that matter, Anakin), it's about -how- you get there that's the fun. Same as LOTR, for that matter...

But I digress... Go Oppo! :)

...wacky! Just tested it, and there is indeed a slight "hiccup" just as the tilt down occurs (Ch 2 if you're playing the home game), when the sun burst fills the screen and the lens flare shows up. Subtle enough that I missed it the first time.

Threw it in my RP-82 and it plays fine. Funny how with my TV now set to the 0 level of the Oppo the 82's way dark. God knows whats best (save a signal generator) - tweak the Oppo by setting with the 82, or just saying screw it and have a slightly darker pic when I go back and forth. Dunno, might just make another colour setting for each player, but that's such a pain.

A new issue for me, the most recent shows I've got (Colbert Report, not yet here in Canada, launches Monday tho!) encoded in XVID are barfing on playback. Audio's fin, but the video jumps ahead and stutters. Even the timecode doesn't play back correctly, but the audio never waivers.

Divx/XVID are of course just icing with this player, but I thought I'd share in case anyone else has this issue...

At the very beginning, after the familiar text crawl, the pan down to the large space battle... the actual pan down (past a sun setting behind Corsucant) to the Star Destroyer (and 2 fighters)... on the Oppo is kind of stuttery... as if the Oppo is having a hard time locking onto cadence or something. It's not a smooth pan, but jerks a couple times.

-Terry

Noticed something like it in PAL-land--assumed it was a cadence issue (though I couldn't tell any difference between Video 1 and Video 2 (with 2:2 cadence)). But the pan past the sun is beautifully smooth, it's rather the first big ship that comes into view at the bottom of the frame that judders very slightly--it may even be intentional, signifiying it's ponderousness (fat chance). It's very unlikely to be a poorly authored disc as GL clearly put more effort into that than he did into plot-line, script, characterization, etc. I can't test it against my other DVD player on me CRT because I'd be testing a 28" image against a 72" image.

Dave

Then, maybe it is just 1076i... until they fix it.
No, it is 1080i, jsut the dvd picture is framed in a 1-4 pixel frame.
On some good displays you see this (displays that translate it to their full display area) but many displays have overscanning to cut off some of the image so garbage on the side is not shown.

The signal is 1080i, but the image transfered only has ~1072-1080 lines.

This is like it has been for ages, like ntsc or PAL have many lines "undisplayed"

:) Awesome reply!
Thanks a ton! I appreciate the solid information!
I'll look into the Denon, but am still leaning toward the Oppo.

...wacky! Just tested it, and there is indeed a slight "hiccup" just as the tilt down occurs (Ch 2 if you're playing the home game), when the sun burst fills the screen and the lens flare shows up. Subtle enough that I missed it the first time.

Threw it in my RP-82 and it plays fine.

What resolution output do you have the Oppo set for? Are you watching an NTSC or PAL copy of the DVD?

Just recieved my Oppo this evening and hooked it up to my Sony KV-36HS420 via the DVI-HDMI connect. In the 420p mode the picture has a constant jumping to it; even the Oppo screen. The "720p" and 1080i upconverts are fine (and in fact look great). Did I get a bum unit? Surely it couldn't be a problem with the HDMI input on my set when the "720p" and 1080i upconverts are fine.

Bummer... been looking forward to getting it all week.

JimPV -

You should just stick with 1080i since this is the native resolution of your CRT. If you would like to use 480p in any capacity, see if OPPO would be willing to send you a new unit for sh*t and giggles.

What resolution output do you have the Oppo set for? Are you watching an NTSC or PAL copy of the DVD?

NTSC R1 (Toronto's on my sidebar, no? Guess I -could- have pulled down a PAL, but my God why? WHY?! :) )

Tried at 480/540/720/1080, all the same. RP-82 didn't have the little hiccup. It's slight, to be sure, but I did see it.

I tend to watch with 720p - on the DVE resoultion screens, I get quite a bit of jitter/flicker on the higher intensity hatch boxes. At 720, it's not an issue. In service mode, I can clearly see indicated that 540p gets treated as a 1080i signal, go figure.

I'd love someone with actual proof of "native resolution" for my set... (57WV700)

Just recieved my Oppo this evening and hooked it up to my Sony KV-36HS420 via the DVI-HDMI connect. In the 420p mode the picture has a constant jumping to it; even the Oppo screen. The "720p" and 1080i upconverts are fine (and in fact look great). Did I get a bum unit? Surely it couldn't be a problem with the HDMI input on my set when the "720p" and 1080i upconverts are fine.

Bummer... been looking forward to getting it all week.

JimPV,

The Oppo outputs four resolutions with DVI:

480p, 540p, 720p, 1080i

Many displays have problems with 540p. I had a Sony LCD that would display nothing, my Panasonic LCD produces a picture but looks bad, a Sharp LCD had no problems. If the display is speced for 480p, 720p, and 1080i and all show OK then it's OK.

Paul

What resolution output do you have the Oppo set for? Are you watching an NTSC or PAL copy of the DVD?
Not sure if you're asking me at all (as I was the first post to mention the problem)... but anyway... I had the Oppo set on 720p using the normal NTSC copy of the DVD. Never had a problem like this before.

It's bothersome that the Oppo has these little niggling problems happening. I know no player is perfect, and I love the feature set... but I still... I feel apprehensive recommending it to friends because of the lack of polish.

-Terry

I recently watched the new Deluxe Edition of "The Mask of Zorro" (the one that has a movie coupon inside). It has one of the worst cases of cross-color artifact I ever seen on a DVD (rainbow flashes over fine lines, e.g. swords, best noticeable on closing titles).

Now, Oppo has a CCS filter, which is supposed to take care of it.

"Faroudja's patented 10-bit Adaptive Comb Filter and Cross Color Suppression circuit eliminates these errors [Dot Crawl, seen as moving dots along color edges, and Rainbow patterns, seen as a moving rainbow over fine lines such as patterned shirts a news anchor might wear] yielding much improved colour purity and edge detail even in scenes with fast motion."


Hovewer, switching the CCS control on did not make any difference.

I have the latest (25 Oct) firmware installed. I wonder if CCS is even enabled in this firmware, as from the description of CCS it is supposed to reduce cross-color artifacts already recorded on DVD (resulting from bad mastering).

I recently watched the new Deluxe Edition of "The Mask of Zorro" (the one that has a movie coupon inside). It has one of the worst cases of cross-color artifact I ever seen on a DVD (rainbow flashes over fine lines, e.g. swords, best noticeable on closing titles).

Now, Oppo has a CCS filter, which is supposed to take care of it.

"Faroudja's patented 10-bit Adaptive Comb Filter and Cross Color Suppression circuit eliminates these errors [Dot Crawl, seen as moving dots along color edges, and Rainbow patterns, seen as a moving rainbow over fine lines such as patterned shirts a news anchor might wear] yielding much improved colour purity and edge detail even in scenes with fast motion."


Hovewer, switching the CCS control on did not make any difference.

I have the latest (25 Oct) firmware installed. I wonder if CCS is even enabled in this firmware, as from the description of CCS it is supposed to reduce cross-color artifacts already recorded on DVD (resulting from bad mastering).

You might need Truelife on to get the best out of CCS. Only a suggestion.

Dave

hello everyone !
Is anybody out there running an Oppo with a Crystalio VP2300 on a CRT ?

I have a Barco Gr801s with a special module to input DVI signal via the Port 3, but I do not know how to best configure my crystalio for the oppo.

any ideas ?

thank you in advance
best regards
vincent

JimPV -

You should just stick with 1080i since this is the native resolution of your CRT.
Thanks, Paul. I think you're probably right.

My first impression of the 1080i/DVI output is that it's pretty durn glorious. But for 480i or p, my Sony HS420 does a better job at upscaling than the Oppo, when outputting 480i via the component connects. And since any HDMI signal upscaled to 1080i is automatically squeezed by the Sony's v-compression to 16:9 (yes, even 4:3 material), that's the way I'll watch all my 4:3 discs (that is, by the Oppo via component connect.s, upscaled by my set).

JimPV,

The Oppo outputs four resolutions with DVI:

480p, 540p, 720p, 1080i

Many displays have problems with 540p. If the display is speced for 480p, 720p, and 1080i and all show OK then it's OK.
The kinda' strange thing is, the 480p does show, but there's a constant jumping to it. The 540p doesn't show at all (just a black screen), but I assume that's normal because it's not a resolution my set can handle. 720p does show, but it's just upconverted to 1080i anyway.

As I said, the 1080i output comes through loud and clear and looks great. And since that's my sets native resolution, that's the one that counts!

Thanks again.

Just recieved my Oppo this evening and hooked it up to my Sony KV-36HS420 via the DVI-HDMI connect. In the 420p mode the picture has a constant jumping to it; even the Oppo screen. The "720p" and 1080i upconverts are fine (and in fact look great). Did I get a bum unit? Surely it couldn't be a problem with the HDMI input on my set when the "720p" and 1080i upconverts are fine.

Bummer... been looking forward to getting it all week.

I also purchased the Oppo and own a Sony KV-30HS420. I contacted Oppo regarding the problem you are seeing at 480p as I am having the same problem. Their response is as follows:

We have heard several reports of some display types shaking in 480p.
We have not been able to replicate it ourselves, but we don't recommend
480p for CRT users, as their sets are designed with 1080i in mind.

That being said, I have read that you can fix this.

From another post:

This can only be remedied through the service menu of the TV. While viewing the DVD player in 480p mode, enter the Sony service menu. Go to the MID3 category, then find the entry called VSTT. Change the value from 0 to 1. This modifies a phase-locked loop start value and stabilizes the shaking at the top of the screen. If you are not familiar with the Sony service menu, I would recommend sticking with 1080i, even though this means losing Wide Zoom capability. Mistakes made in the service menu can ruin your TV. Also, the ISF calibrator who calibrated my system said that there was some attenuation evident in 480p that was not evident in 1080i.

720p and 1080i do not have this problem on my display.

I have also noticed a slight flickering at 1080i. Oppo says this is due to the interlaced nature of the signal. 720p does not exhibit the same sort of flickering. However, my Denon 2910 does not flicker at 1080i.

Mark

I also purchased the Oppo and own a Sony KV-30HS420. I contacted Oppo regarding the problem you are seeing at 480p as I am having the same problem.

720p and 1080i do not have this problem on my display.

I have also noticed a slight flickering at 1080i. Oppo says this is due to the interlaced nature of the signal. 720p does not exhibit the same sort of flickering. However, my Denon 2910 does not flicker at 1080i.
Yep, Oppo told me the same thing. I'm just glad I didn't get a bum unit (!).

720p and 1080i do not jump on my KV-36HS420, either.

Thanks for the service menu fix. I'll give it a try.

I too notice a very slight flickering in the 1080i mode, but am sure it is as Oppo told you: due to the interlacing of the picture. Our CRTs cannot exhibit a 720p signal, so they just convert it to their native 1080i. I'm assuming the 720p from the Oppo we see on our sets is the same as the 1080i (?). 1080i looks so good from the Oppo I can live with the (very slight) flickering.

Jim, I'm glad the Oppo is working out for you!(I'm CB on the Classic Horror Forum).

I've had the Oppo for three weeks, and it plays everything I throw at it, and beautifully. I have DVD's that never worked on any of my players that play like a charm on the Oppo(one of them is NIGHT OF THE DEMON). New transfers like BATMAN BEGINS and REVENGE OF THE SITH look amazing on this player. I also have the Zenith DVB318, and it's a good player, but the macroblocking could be a real hassle. The ED WOOD DVD was a blotchy mess on the Zenith, but it looks gorgeous on the Oppo. A terrific player in every way.

Hey, Chesterbelloc! Small internet world, huh?

Yep, as a player that's region-free, PAL capable and upconverting for HD displays, I've not seen anything that can compete with the Oppo. I've yet to even sit down and watch an entire film on it, but so far the 1080i image is superb.

Yep, Oppo told me the same thing. I'm just glad I didn't get a bum unit (!).

720p and 1080i do not jump on my KV-36HS420, either.

Thanks for the service menu fix. I'll give it a try.

I too notice a very slight flickering in the 1080i mode, but am sure it is as Oppo told you: due to the interlacing of the picture. Our CRTs cannot exhibit a 720p signal, so they just convert it to their native 1080i. I'm assuming the 720p from the Oppo we see on our sets is the same as the 1080i (?). 1080i looks so good from the Oppo I can live with the (very slight) flickering.
I once owned the S97, and that also displayed a slight flicker at 1080i in the picture; albeit slightly worse than my Oppo.

I am thinking to buy Oppo and feed DVI signal to my FP Sharp DLP Z10000. Does anyone have similar setup and how is it? I currently use Denon 1600 DVD player with component, and wonder how much improved PQ with DVI of Oppo, whether it is a worthy upgrade. Also, I have concern about lip sync problem. Thank you for any comment.

I too notice a very slight flickering in the 1080i mode, but am sure it is as Oppo told you: due to the interlacing of the picture. Our CRTs cannot exhibit a 720p signal, so they just convert it to their native 1080i.
I once owned the S97, and that also displayed a slight flicker at 1080i in the picture; albeit slightly worse than my Oppo.
On second thought, the Oppo 1080i shows no noticable flickering. A friend brought over the new Revenge of the Sith disc and we watched the opening battle scene: absolutely fabulous picture (on my Sony HS420).

Those of you thinking the Oppo wouldn't be worth it for your CRT should think again. Fantastic 1080i picture!

you want NERD?! :)

Just finished a 15 hour marathon viewing session of all 6 SW flicks on the Oppo with narry a major issue, no real synch loss, and gorgeous pic and sound.

Booya... sleepy, my friends, but thought I'd share a happy experience for y'all.

I once owned the S97, and that also displayed a slight flicker at 1080i in the picture; albeit slightly worse than my Oppo.

This is due to the Faroudja chipset not properly producing an interlaced image for CRT based display devices. Screen shaking is also a minor problem as well for every user who utilizes 1080i.

Jim, I'm glad the Oppo is working out for you!(I'm CB on the Classic Horror Forum).

The ED WOOD DVD was a blotchy mess on the Zenith, but it looks gorgeous on the Oppo. A terrific player in every way.

If you get MB on black and white movies like this is (if I remember rightly) just turn the colour right down on your display device--the MB just disappears (as it would).

Dave

Those of you thinking the Oppo wouldn't be worth it for your CRT should think again. Fantastic 1080i picture!

Oh, I totally agree.

Mark

Screen shaking is also a minor problem as well for every user who utilizes 1080i.

I don't see "shaking" at 1080i. I see line twitter. It is much different that the shaking I get at 480p.

Mark

Noticed something like it in PAL-land--assumed it was a cadence issue (though I couldn't tell any difference between Video 1 and Video 2 (with 2:2 cadence)). But the pan past the sun is beautifully smooth, it's rather the first big ship that comes into view at the bottom of the frame that judders very slightly--it may even be intentional, signifiying it's ponderousness (fat chance). It's very unlikely to be a poorly authored disc as GL clearly put more effort into that than he did into plot-line, script, characterization, etc. I can't test it against my other DVD player on me CRT because I'd be testing a 28" image against a 72" image.

Dave

Another answer from PAL-Land - just got the SW III as well. With my Oppo (latest firmware set to PAL, 720p, Video2, DVI/HDMI to Sanyo Z4), it is two HUGE jumps once the sun becomes visible on the bottom. The largest jump is when the lensflare appears. It looks like jumping at least 5-10 frames! Once the big ship comes in, everything is smooth again.
If I rewind slightly, so that the sun is still visible, and play from there: no jumps. If I rewind more (into the stars): jumps.

A possible cause: the opening scroll has two angles - english scroll, german scroll. I guess, the end-point of the angle is exactly at the point, where they fade over from the "fixed" stars in the background of the scroll to the stars, that initiate the pan down (you can see that fadeover slightly). Since the Oppo did show borderline results in tests regarding recovery (15 frames or so), maybe it cannot fully go into whatever needed mode to catch up with the "new scene". But why then is the pan down the stars on the black background so smooth and only, once the sun comes in, I get those jumps?
Could it be, that the processor/chips have to do so much calculating work with that sunset, that they just cannot do that in time befor the next frame? (Just guessing, maybe a dum tought...).

Joerg

I am thinking to buy Oppo and feed DVI signal to my FP Sharp DLP Z10000. Does anyone have similar setup and how is it? I currently use Denon 1600 DVD player with component, and wonder how much improved PQ with DVI of Oppo, whether it is a worthy upgrade.

I don't have that particular projector, but I do have both the Denon 1600 and the Oppo. The Denon has a slightly sharper picture and fewer of the quirks that the Oppo has. The Oppo, however, is region-free and upscales.

I still use the Denon as my primary player. The Oppo is my default region-free unit.

You're going to be hard-pressed to find a better DVD player than the Denon 1600 for less than $1,500. It's one of the all time greats.

Does anyone know if Amazon is shipping these with the newest firmware version?

If you get MB on black and white movies like this is (if I remember rightly) just turn the colour right down on your display device--the MB just disappears (as it would).

Dave

Thanks for the tip, Dave, I never even thought of doing that. Luckily with the Oppo, I don't really need to worry about it anymore. I know that some folks see macroblocking with the Oppo, but I've watched about twenty movies and they all look great. The Zenith was a real pain with dark scenes, and I had to turn my black level down so much that it would crush detail in the picture.

Watched NATIONAL TREASURE last night, and it looked incredible. I know that Blu-Ray is going to be better, but this is a good holdover until that arrives. I'm using a CRT also(a 47" Panny) upconverted to 1080i, and so far, it's great.

Turning down the colour on your display won't work for movies such as Sin City or Schlinder's List though! Damn.

Does anyone know if Amazon is shipping these with the newest firmware version?
Just update the firmware yourself. It takes less than 5 minutes total to burn the firmware to disc and insert the disc into the OPPO update it.

Does anyone know if Amazon is shipping these with the newest firmware version?

Most likely Amazon.com is still using the old 0628 firmware, or the factory beta firmware 0925.

On second thought, the Oppo 1080i shows no noticable flickering. A friend brought over the new Revenge of the Sith disc and we watched the opening battle scene: absolutely fabulous picture (on my Sony HS420).

Those of you thinking the Oppo wouldn't be worth it for your CRT should think again. Fantastic 1080i picture!
I agree wholeheartedly. This player produces the best DVD picture I've ever seen on my CRT RPTV.

I know at this point this is probably a stupid question but I've been using a Malata for the last 3 years and I've been pretty happy with the picture but I've been itching to upgrade to something better. Anyone else used to be in my position and upgraded? did you notice a severe difference?

OPPO looks better than the Momitsu...which supposedly looked as good/better than the Malata...

I don't have that particular projector, but I do have both the Denon 1600 and the Oppo. The Denon has a slightly sharper picture and fewer of the quirks that the Oppo has. The Oppo, however, is region-free and upscales.

I still use the Denon as my primary player. The Oppo is my default region-free unit.

You're going to be hard-pressed to find a better DVD player than the Denon 1600 for less than $1,500. It's one of the all time greats.

Does the Oppo picture upscaled to 1080i much better than the Denon 1600 480p?

Another answer from PAL-Land - just got the SW III as well. With my Oppo (latest firmware set to PAL, 720p, Video2, DVI/HDMI to Sanyo Z4), it is two HUGE jumps once the sun becomes visible on the bottom. The largest jump is when the lensflare appears. It looks like jumping at least 5-10 frames! Once the big ship comes in, everything is smooth again.
If I rewind slightly, so that the sun is still visible, and play from there: no jumps. If I rewind more (into the stars): jumps.

A possible cause: the opening scroll has two angles - english scroll, german scroll. I guess, the end-point of the angle is exactly at the point, where they fade over from the "fixed" stars in the background of the scroll to the stars, that initiate the pan down (you can see that fadeover slightly). Since the Oppo did show borderline results in tests regarding recovery (15 frames or so), maybe it cannot fully go into whatever needed mode to catch up with the "new scene". But why then is the pan down the stars on the black background so smooth and only, once the sun comes in, I get those jumps?
Could it be, that the processor/chips have to do so much calculating work with that sunset, that they just cannot do that in time befor the next frame? (Just guessing, maybe a dum tought...).

Joerg
An other possibility, mentioned when the new firmware came out, is that PAL 2:2 cadence doesn't kick in immediately becuase the oppo has to determine the cadence and it also can be thrown by things like chapter changes where the flagging isn't clear. It might be that as the sunburst is just after a chapter the oppo isn't getting the cadence right? We need a force 2:2 option for Pal-land. However, I didn't notice any jumps on the sunburst just on the big ship and that was more of a light judder than a jump. I'll look again soon.

Dave

Turning down the colour on your display won't work for movies such as Sin City or Schlinder's List though! Damn.

You saw MB on Sin City? That's bad luck. Not a trace on the ae700. Heimat 2 is a real pain though--it's mostly in black and white with a about a third in colour, so the b/w trick won't work. The MB is pretty bad and it's about 20+ hours long.

Dave

Does the Oppo picture upscaled to 1080i much better than the Denon 1600 480p?

This is entirely dependant on your display and equipment chain.

On second thought, the Oppo 1080i shows no noticable flickering. A friend brought over the new Revenge of the Sith disc and we watched the opening battle scene: absolutely fabulous picture (on my Sony HS420).

Those of you thinking the Oppo wouldn't be worth it for your CRT should think again. Fantastic 1080i picture!
I do see an anomaly at 1080i. I've got the Sony KV-34HS420 and I see what I'm calling a "Pulsing from left to right" (is this the line twitter someone mentioned?).

480p clearly has the "jumping" mentioned here, and 720p is rock solid.

I have called Oppo support and they are emailing me a thread from AVS where a SM correction is mentioned (is this the one I see refering to MID3 for 480p?).

But my issue is getting upconversion at my set's 1080i native resolution. I realize I could watch dvds at Oppo's 720p, but then the image is undergoing a scaling in my tv to 1080i, and I'd rather have the Oppo do everything in the digital domain and send non-pulsing 1080i to my screen.

As it stands right now, setting Oppo's "DVI" to 1080i gives my Sony HS420 an unacceptable picture.

I'd appreciate any thoughts or suggestions you all may have.

I do see an anomaly at 1080i. I've got the Sony KV-34HS420 and I see what I'm calling a "Pulsing from left to right" (is this the line twitter someone mentioned?).

480p clearly has the "jumping" mentioned here, and 720p is rock solid.

I have called Oppo support and they are emailing me a thread from AVS where a SM correction is mentioned (is this the one I see refering to MID3 for 480p?).

But my issue is getting upconversion at my set's 1080i native resolution. I realize I could watch dvds at Oppo's 720p, but then the image is undergoing a scaling in my tv to 1080i, and I'd rather have the Oppo do everything in the digital domain and send non-pulsing 1080i to my screen.

As it stands right now, setting Oppo's "DVI" to 1080i gives my Sony HS420 an unacceptable picture.

I'd appreciate any thoughts or suggestions you all may have.

I have the KV-34HS420's little brother the KV-30HS420. At 1080i, I notice a flickering in solid gray areas. Is this the "pulsing" you are describing? You can check by putting up a 50% gray field from Avia. The flickering should be eveident even when the player is paused.

Oppo (and others) have attributed this to the interlaced nature of the signal and the FLI2310 chipset. It is different than line twitter. I'm not sure if there is anything you can do about it at the moment.

The thread they are sending you is likely the solution I mentioned earlier for the "jumping" 480p signal.

Mark

I have the KV-34HS420's little brother the KV-30HS420. At 1080i, I notice a flickering in solid gray areas. Is this the "pulsing" you are describing? You can check by putting up a 50% gray field from Avia. The flickering should be eveident even when the player is paused.

Oppo (and others) have attributed this to the interlaced nature of the signal and the FLI2310 chipset. It is different than line twitter. I'm not sure if there is anything you can do about it at the moment.

The thread they are sending you is likely the solution I mentioned earlier for the "jumping" 480p signal.

Mark
Thanks for such a quick response!

I can see both the "flicker" and this "pulsing/waving" in 1080i. I tried another DVI-HDMI cable to double-check, but the problem was still there.

It looks so solid in Oppo's DVI setting for 720p.

I guess the 1080i issues shouldn't surprise me, given what I've read about the nature of the interlaced signal and the FLI2310 chipset. But it does confuse me just a little.

720P is solid because the signal being output by the Oppo player doesn't have the induced "interlace" quality? Then, it remains solid at my set's 1080i since my tv is merely scaling a "solid" signal to it's native resolution?

So, if I simply resign myself to watching the Oppo output at "720p", will it have the clarity or PQ that I would have seen at 1080i?

I appologize if I'm making this confusing. I'm trying to decide if I should just keep the Oppo and watch it's 720P DVI setting, or try a different player.

So, if I simply resign myself to watching the Oppo output at "720p", will it have the clarity or PQ that I would have seen at 1080i?

I appologize if I'm making this confusing. I'm trying to decide if I should just keep the Oppo and watch it's 720P DVI setting, or try a different player.Have you tried 540p? If your TV handles it well, 540p would be the best bet for a 1080i set (540p and 1080i are fairly interchangeable - definitely the closest match).

If your set doesn't do 540p, but handles 720p well, then stick with 720p. Some displays have similar flicker problems with other Faroudja players too, like the Panasonic. All Oppo resolutions are rock-solid on my Samsung DLP.

It seems that the Sony HS420 and the OPPO do not like each other all that much. There are many problems with flickering at 1080i, no out of box support for 480p, and improper aspect ratio support (4:3 is always stretched - Sony's "16:9 Enhanced" can't be turned off - and Anamorphic DVDs look squashed).

Have you tried 540p? If your TV handles it well, 540p would be the best bet for a 1080i set (540p and 1080i are fairly interchangeable - definitely the closest match).

If your set doesn't do 540p, but handles 720p well, then stick with 720p. Some displays have similar flicker problems with other Faroudja players too, like the Panasonic. All Oppo resolutions are rock-solid on my Samsung DLP.
Short answer - I'm not sure.

When clicking through the DVI settings using the remote, I can clearly view 1080i, 720p and 480p. there appear to be one, or possibly two other "settings" but the screen just remains blank (black). I wondered if I should have waited longer for the blank screens to resolve something, but I did wait quite some time.

Maybe I'll try being more patient and see if 540p actually shows up.

Thanks everyone - I'll be happy to read any other ideas as well.

It seems that the Sony HS420 and the OPPO do not like each other all that much. There are many problems with flickering at 1080i, no out of box support for 480p, and improper aspect ratio support (4:3 is always stretched - Sony's "16:9 Enhanced" can't be turned off - and Anamorphic DVDs look squashed).
I'm wondering the same thing.

I have read that such players are really more geared for fixed-pixel displays, but I had to give it a try.

I also tried a Samsung HD850, but it crushed blacks badly. However, it didn't jump, flicker or pulse.....

There do appear to be very satisfied direct view crt users here, but maybe they're not of the HS420 ilk.

I hope this is not a dumb question, but has anyone tried comparing the Oppo against the Bravo D2 using a Pannasonic plazma? It would seem to me that the D2's ability to output the native rate of the panel would be about as pristine as one could get. Does the Oppo output in either 1024 X 768 or 852 X 480 ? Does the D2 suffer from the same issue with macroblocking on the Pannasonic plazmas ?

Hey Gary AKA GSB,

It looks like you can use the Silver remote for the Breakpoint feature. Press the PLAY button instead of the SELECT button. I was messing with it last night while watching some movies, and it worked like a charm when using the Silver remote.

Have you tried 540p? If your TV handles it well, 540p would be the best bet for a 1080i set (540p and 1080i are fairly interchangeable - definitely the closest match).

If your set doesn't do 540p, but handles 720p well, then stick with 720p. Some displays have similar flicker problems with other Faroudja players too, like the Panasonic. All Oppo resolutions are rock-solid on my Samsung DLP.

This would be your best bet, but keep in mind that with a CRT HDTV like your Sony, you're not really getting the full 1080i resolution anyway as CRTs are limited in horizontal resolution. Only some RPTVs and front projectors with 9" CRT can get close to 1080i. However, with your size set, 720p will likely look just as good as the 1080i would. likely This is not like a fixed panel display (DLP, LCD or plasma) where you may be able to match a native resolution of 720 or 1080p. Being an analog device, CRTs don't have a native resolution per se, just a native scan rate. There's a lot more info about this on the "Direct View Displays" forum if you're interested.

I hope this is not a dumb question, but has anyone tried comparing the Oppo against the Bravo D2 using a Pannasonic plazma? It would seem to me that the D2's ability to output the native rate of the panel would be about as pristine as one could get. Does the Oppo output in either 1024 X 768 or 852 X 480 ? Does the D2 suffer from the same issue with macroblocking on the Pannasonic plazmas ?

I haven't seen the Oppo or Bravo with a Panny plasma, but I've seen them both with others. The Bravo's ability to have custom resolutions is a nice feature, but the Oppo outperforms it in some many other categories (especially deinterlacing), that the overall picture quality is better even though it can't match the plasma's native resolution.

This would be your best bet, but keep in mind that with a CRT HDTV like your Sony, you're not really getting the full 1080i resolution anyway as CRTs are limited in horizontal resolution. Only some RPTVs and front projectors with 9" CRT can get close to 1080i. However, with your size set, 720p will likely look just as good as the 1080i would. likely This is not like a fixed panel display (DLP, LCD or plasma) where you may be able to match a native resolution of 720 or 1080p. Being an analog device, CRTs don't have a native resolution per se, just a native scan rate. There's a lot more info about this on the "Direct View Displays" forum if you're interested.
This is the conlcusion I was coming to as well.

I'm from the Direct View Forum and I've been "treated" to many debates over resolution.

But the bottom line for me is that my model tv actually resolves less than the 1920x1080i advertised - just like you've indicated.

So, I'm probably resolving closer to the 720 line rate anyway.

Good Point!

I'm from the Direct View Forum and I've been "treated" to many debates over resolution.


That's cool. I'm always wary about mentioning anything about resolution of a CRT, since it tends to stir some debate at times, and this is not the thread for it. I guess the bottom line is that your Sony would look great either way.

That's cool. I'm always wary about mentioning anything about resolution of a CRT, since it tends to stir some debate at times, and this is not the thread for it. I guess the bottom line is that your Sony would look great either way.
I agree.

I really wanted to keep this player, knowing its potential and relying on the great customer support from Oppo.

Thanks to you and the others in the DVD Forum for all the help. ;)

This would be your best bet, but keep in mind that with a CRT HDTV like your Sony, you're not really getting the full 1080i resolution anyway as CRTs are limited in horizontal resolution. Only some RPTVs and front projectors with 9" CRT can get close to 1080i. However, with your size set, 720p will likely look just as good as the 1080i would. likely This is not like a fixed panel display (DLP, LCD or plasma) where you may be able to match a native resolution of 720 or 1080p. Being an analog device, CRTs don't have a native resolution per se, just a native scan rate. There's a lot more info about this on the "Direct View Displays" forum if you're interested.VERY nicely stated.

Hey Gary AKA GSB,

It looks like you can use the Silver remote for the Breakpoint feature. Press the PLAY button instead of the SELECT button. I was messing with it last night while watching some movies, and it worked like a charm when using the Silver remote.Woohoo! That is good to know. I'll try it tonight. Thank you, Neuromancer!

I've had the Bravo D1 and have been using the Bravo D2 for the past year or so and started experiencing some problems with the D2 not recognizing DVDs. I would have to reboot the player by powering down for a few seconds. This corrected the problem until the next time, which was becoming more frequent. After reading this post I decided to purchase an Oppo. It arrived today. I connected it to my SIM2 300 Plus using DVI at 720p.

The PQ seems to be a little softer than the D2 but it is much more film like, which I like. I haven't experienced any MBing, and I hope I don't. So far the Oppo has loaded every Dvd I've thrown at it and it appears to load faster than the D2. The DVD tray seems awfully flimsy. Good thing there are no small children in the house. The remote is marginal at best. I've already programed my Pronto to replace the Oppo's remote, so I want be using it any more.

Overall I am impressed and pleased with the player. Now I need to get me a DVI switch so I don't have to manually switch the DVI cable among the D2, the Oppo and my Motorola cable DVR.

Tom
<><

Glad you like it Tom!

Paul

You found something that works......... why screw with it? I do not recall anyone mentioning that 1080i ouput on the Oppo looked superior to the 720p output no matter which display it was on..., but I could have missed one! :-)

The DVD tray seems awfully flimsy. Good thing there are no small children in the house. <><

I seem to remember an earlier post where someone noted that the oppo tray is designed to be child friendly--i.e., maybe it's easy to mistake its flexibity for fragility? It bends so it don't break.

Dave

Hi!
Regarding the tray: that's one out of two things I honestly don't like about the Oppo (the other one is the remote, but they are working on a new one...).

Not only, that the tray only opens two thirds, so you have to carefully slide in the disc in a very low angle since there is not much space on top of the tray. I also am scared every time to scratch the disc, since the tray does not show any signs of some sort of "antiscratch" distance holders like in other players, but seems to have a competely even surface.
Also, gripping the DVD from the tray only is possible, if you pinch your little finger in the center hole and again very carefully slide the DVD out of the tray. No way to grip the DVD on both sides like with the "open" sides of Panasonic-trays for example.
Best would be, if the tray opened up all the way to reveal the complete disc AND had "open sides" AND had a distance-"ring" in the center or on the outside to prevent scratches...
Just my 2 cents....

Joerg

I agree, the tray and the remote could be improved. A valid point about the tray being flexible so it doesn't break, but I still don't like it. However, these are small cons considering the other great pros of the Oppo.

Tom
<><

2 Questions (please forgive if these have been answered already):

1) when did this model come out?

2) are there any plans for a new model? or will it just be firmware upgrades for the time being?

Tom,

glad to hear you got the player and so far PQ seems good. Have you calibrated? I'm curious that the D2 seemed sharper to you...that's interesting. IMO at first I thought the OPPO was "softer" than my Momitsu but then I started seeing "inner detail" in the image that made me realize that the Momitsu was sharpening the picture artificially...and obscuring low-level detail in the process.

Don't forget to set the brightness (?) to -3 to get the proper black level.

Let me know more about your impressions of picture quality especially in comparison to the D2...

dave :)

1) when did this model come out?

Early this year.

2) are there any plans for a new model? or will it just be firmware upgrades for the time being?

Oppo has not announced any new models, but their parent company BBK has some HDMI models in the works that may or may not be released through Oppo. That remains to be seen. The only new product known for certain that Oppo is working on is a portable unit.

The only new product known for certain that Oppo is working on is a portable unit.

And the DVD Recorder which has been 'Coming Soon" for the last 6 months.

Don't forget to set the brightness (?) to -3 to get the proper black level.

Forgive me, but I was under the impression that the baseline contrast/brightness issues were resolved in the latest firmware update.

I've gone back a few days in the thread and noticed some members asking about the setting for contrast and brightness. Some mentioned they should be set to -1 and -3 respectively. However, I didn't see how they came to the conclusion that these were the correct values. Can anyone fill me in with respect to the latest firmware?

Thanks,
Mark

The recent firmware update was supposed to correct the brightness level so that "0" was the proper setting (equal to "5" previously), but a number of people (including myself) have confirmed that "-3" is now equal to where "5" used to be.

Forgive me, but I was under the impression that the baseline contrast/brightness issues were resolved in the latest firmware update.

I've gone back a few days in the thread and noticed some members asking about the setting for contrast and brightness. Some mentioned they should be set to -1 and -3 respectively. However, I didn't see how they came to the conclusion that these were the correct values. Can anyone fill me in with respect to the latest firmware?

Thanks,
Mark


It was supposed to have been corrected in the latest firmware. However, much to the chagrin of OPPO, the baseline brightness was not a linear ramp. The "+5" they were aiming for in actuality "+8". You will have to reduce the brightness to "-3" in order to get it back to DVI spec. I don't recall having to change the contrast.

The recent firmware update was supposed to correct the brightness level so that "0" was the proper setting (equal to "5" previously), but a number of people (including myself) have confirmed that "-3" is now equal to where "5" used to be.

Just for my own edification, how did you (or others) confirm this? For future reference of course.

Mark

Just for my own edification, how did you (or others) confirm this? For future reference of course.

Mark
Greetings,
I posted about changing the brightness to -3 and the contrast to -1 with the new Oppo firmware. I confirmed this with my Samsung 5674 using the pluge ramp steps pattern on DVE in concert with my ISF calibrator. YMMV,
b.

Just for my own edification, how did you (or others) confirm this? For future reference of course. Guitarman used an Accupel reference signal generator to output the correct black level for Studio RGB over DVI (digital 16), and compared it against the Oppo. Others have compared the output to the black level from other reputable players or calibrated displays. In the old firmware, contrast was correct at the default (0). I'm not sure if that still stands with the new firmware.

Gary

I'd be interested to know if the contrast setting of -1 is "official" also. I set the brightness at -3 and it does look better than zero to me.

This whole Studio/PC RGB thing has been intriguing me. I have a Samsung 4674W DLP TV, which will accept PC RGB (0-255) on the DVI input. I can recalibrate brightness and contrast to accept Studio RGB (16-235).

Technically, Studio RGB is the correct signal to feed into a display from a DVD player, because a DVD is recorded with Studio RGB levels. (We are confident that OPPO will fix the default values to output correct Studio RGB in the next firmware release). However, if your display is susceptible to the Faroudja macroblock-enhance bug, there is very good reason to experiment with the OPPO's brightness and contrast settings, particularly if your display accepts PC RGB. (Of course, you have to tweak your display's brightness and contrast each time you make a change).

DLP technology happens to be one of those display types that is very susceptible to the macroblock-enhance bug. So I began to think about why that may be. Part of the problem, is that, like other digital TV's, mine uses a digitized (stair-stepped) 8-bit gamma curve. Down in the critical lower portion of the curve (where macroblocking is most severe), only a few steps are being used to represent the transition from black to dark grey. This makes a smooth digital grayscale ramp look slightly banded. To make things worse, the 3 primary colors do not track this gamma curve perfectly, so inevitably, the gray ramp looks ever-so-slightly colorful as the banding appears in different places for each of the 3 colors.

To compound this problem further, DLP technology uses pulse-width-modulation (PWM) on the mirrors. And the mirror response rate is too slow to represent the darkest shades properly, so a randomized dithering technique is used in nearby pixels to create the illusion (from a distance) of dark shades.

I noticed one day, that when I calibrated my TV to PC RGB, it produced a much smoother grayscale ramp than when I calibrated it to Studio RGB (maybe because the 0-16 and 236-255 codes are being thrown away and wasted by the input stage). Since a digital display like mine does not rely on blacker-than-black or whiter-than-white to display an image correctly, there would be no adverse effects if it was fed with PC RGB. So I tried adjusting the OPPO's brightness and contrast to produce a 0-255 PC RGB output. I'm not sure exactly where those settings should be, but I got close with brightness at -8 and contrast at about +4. I noticed an improvement immediately. I tried a few in-between settings, and found that brightness at -6 and contrast at 0, produced the smoothest possible grayscale ramp on my DLP (of course, I recalibrated the TV to each new setting I tried).

At that stage, I popped in some of my DVD's that trigger the Faroudja macroblock-enhance bug (like the opening scene, and chapter 11, of "Monsters Inc.") I could still see the feint macroblocking that is visible with any non-Faroudja player, but the macroblock enhancement was GONE - completely!

Setting the new Noise Reduction feature to "Low", almost supressed that last bit of feint macroblocking too.

I've also found that the Avia RGB filters do not give accurate results with my DLP primaries. When I set saturation to 0% on the "Color Decoder Check" test pattern, faces look a little sunburned, with a strange red/green shift, and the picture generally looks a bit over-saturated. If I tweak saturation to about -5% with those filters, the picture looks far more natural, and it also helps to suppress the color-enhancement that often occurs during macroblocking.

I will be testing and evaluating more DVD's as soon as I can.

GSB

just AMAZING!!!! :) :) :)
Thanks so much for sharing your findings.

One question, that is of vital interest for me as an owner of a Sanyo Z4: do you happen to know, whether the HDMI-setting L1 / L2 are just another way of expressing PC RGB (L2) and Studio RGB (L1)?

Would you or some other readers here confirm "technically" (by measuring or so), whether your findigs regarding the contrast/brightness settings do actually REALLY put out PC RGB levels not only with the extreme values dark and bright, but also are "smooth" in terms of the grayscale-curve produced (as I read often, a Gammacurve value of 2.2 is preferrable for homecinema use)?

Thanks again for pointing out such an interesting fact - I'll follow your further findings with much attention and try to merge them with the findings in the Z4 tweak thread....


Joerg

Thought this may help some of you....I sent a few questions to Oppo support (VERY QUICK response I might add) regarding my Mits 65413 (crt) viewing at 1080i. The questions are in regards to:

1. A bad rainbow effect I was seeing in dark scenes.
2. Macroblocking
3. Ghosting in dark scenes.

Here are the answers I got. It looks like "-3" as the brightness setting on the Oppo is coming strait from the horse's miouth....

"1. The Mitsubishi 65413 is a 3-CRT projection HDTV. For CRT-based TVs,
calibration and convergence adjustments are very important. Please
verify that you have properly calibrated and adjusted your display
unit. Also, verity that the problem is not inherent to the DVD player
by connecting the OPDV971H to another display device (such as a LCD
monitor) which will accept a DVI-D connection.

2. Macroblocking, although source dependent, can be associated to
improper calibration. Please set the OPDV971H's brightness to "-3" and
recalibrate your contrast and brightness settings on the Mitsubishi
using a professional grade calibration disc (like AVIA or DVE) or the
THX Optimizer found on many THX Optimized discs.

3. This sounds like the result of DNR. The effect is most apparent when
the brightness on the TV is set too high. Turning off DNR and then
cycling the power of the DVD player should fix this. Reduce the
brightness if necessary."

Poppa

Dave, the only calibration I've done is using Avia. In the past I calibrated using ColorFacts. I'll go back and make some A-B comparisons to the D2. Comments to date were based upon a limited set of observations.

Tom
<><

GSB,

thanks for that insightful post.

Appreciated!

DNR is "digital noise reduction" for PQ. Not audio.

Thanks, I hadn't seen that option in the new firmware. Looks much better on LOW with some discs.

Greetings,
I posted about changing the brightness to -3 and the contrast to -1 with the new Oppo firmware. I confirmed this with my Samsung 5674 using the pluge ramp steps pattern on DVE in concert with my ISF calibrator. YMMV,
b.

Thanks for the info folks. I appreciate it.

Mark

Still tryin' to get educated :)

1st, I thought I'd read something on this question, in this very thread.. but I've re-scanned most of the 156 pages :D and came up empty.. so apologies if my search & scan were inadequate.

My TV/Monitor is a w/s HD Sanyo, whose manual unfortunately states "all signals input are up-converted to 1080i".
It also has only Component input.
Will I gain anything worth the effort, if I order a "DVI to Component adaptor", to make use of the DVI available 720Progressive-Scan??

Thanks in advance to the AVS Forums/Oppo Brain-Trust ;)

The Oppo's DVI does not utilize DVI-Analog only DVI-Digital. When used with Oppo the DVI/component adapter will not be functional.

Paul

GSB, I came to a similar conclusion when I bought a Panasonic S97 player - I could introduce MB at will by adjusting the gamma index on the Benq 8700+ projector. They look exactly like how people described MB should look like! I posted my findings in this thread and the S97 thread a month or two ago. But I never though to try PC RGB mode. :)

My Benq 8700+ has a measured gamma of 2.5, so MB is hard to spot - really only noticeable on anime titles, where character faces take on a pink blotchiness that goes away when I use 480p mode.

Your adjustments suggest to me that the Faroudja chipset may actually be reducing the color resolution when upscaling - introducing gaps in the RGB scale giving rise to contouring which would make MB very visible. Maybe. It could also be that your display, when in PC-RGB mode, is using superior color processing to reduce the banding effect, which in turn reduces MB. Hmmmm...

GSB,

I look forward to your results, especially since some of my friends use this and last generation Samsung DLPs, and I have a H78 at home who is begging for more fine tuning (I've been too lazy to tune that sucker for my cable box, PS2, Xbox, PC, and OPPO, especially since three of those devices use the same input >.<)

The Oppo's DVI does not utilize DVI-Analog only DVI-Digital. When used with Oppo the DVI/component adapter will not be functional.

Paul

Thanks, Paul...
arrrgggh!! What was I thinkin'!!! :D

One question, that is of vital interest for me as an owner of a Sanyo Z4: do you happen to know, whether the HDMI-setting L1 / L2 are just another way of expressing PC RGB (L2) and Studio RGB (L1)? Joerg, that's a question for the Z4 thread. Sounds like a possibility though.

Would you or some other readers here confirm "technically" (by measuring or so), whether your findigs regarding the contrast/brightness settings do actually REALLY put out PC RGB levels not only with the extreme values dark and bright, but also are "smooth" in terms of the grayscale-curve produced (as I read often, a Gammacurve value of 2.2 is preferrable for homecinema use)? Guitarman has an Accupel generator, so he's the man to do it. However, I have a PC that outputs true PC RGB over DVI, so I'll compare the Oppo against that. It should be just as good as the Accupel for this test.

As far as gamma goes, a value of 2.2 was typical for analog TV, but 2.5 is often recommended as the standard for HDTV in a darkened room. Anywhere between 2.2 and 2.5 should work fine. I find 2.5 is a little too dark on my set, so I prefer 2.3 - 2.4. Connected to the OPPO player, my DLP's gamma looks more like 2.0 - 2.2 and that is BAD for macroblocking potential. That's why I'm so keen to have a gamma control on the OPPO player - I'm sure it would go a LONG way to help us tweak out the macroblocking.

GSB, I came to a similar conclusion when I bought a Panasonic S97 player - I could introduce MB at will by adjusting the gamma index on the Benq 8700+ projector. They look exactly like how people described MB should look like! I posted my findings in this thread and the S97 thread a month or two ago... My Benq 8700+ has a measured gamma of 2.5, so MB is hard to spot...maxleung, you are so right. A gamma control on the OPPO would do the trick, I'm sure of it. I remember your post, and it made complete sense. It has driven my quest to put an end to macroblocking once and for all. I think we're close.

Your adjustments suggest to me that the Faroudja chipset may actually be reducing the color resolution when upscaling - introducing gaps in the RGB scale giving rise to contouring which would make MB very visible. Maybe. It could also be that your display, when in PC-RGB mode, is using superior color processing to reduce the banding effect, which in turn reduces MB. Hmmmm... That is a possibility... but my theory is that the color contouring (and therefore, macroblocking) is caused by a combination of 2 things:
Slightly oversaturated color in the lower part of the Gamma curve.
The Gamma curve is coming out of black too steeply. As you have already demonstrated, setting your measured Gamma to 2.5, eliminated macroblocking from your display, whereas boosting Gamma could reliably reproduce it.

One of the first things I do with a Samsung DLP TV, is enter the service menu and select gamma curve 0. That curve is the most accurate one, and makes the biggest difference to macroblocking. The other curves seem to boost Gamma artificially in the darker regions, and they cause horrific macroblocking. So my display experience backs up your findings.

Again, this is why we are pressing OPPO for a Gamma adjustment.

Incidentally, my display doesn't have a PC RGB "mode", I just calibrate it to either Studio or PC RGB levels. So that would deflate the "superior color processing" idea.

Ah good points GSB! My projector doesn't have a PC RGB (16-235->0-255) mode either.

I will have to check my S97 player for gamma controls - if it has one I should give it a whirl. The S97 seems to clip below black and above reference white levels anyways. Tweaking the S97's brightness and contrast gives the illusion of BTB and WTW, but IMHO I think it is still outputting in the 13-240 range, just remapping BTB and WTW levels into that compressed range.

It would be interesting if the Oppo does the same thing - a distinct possibility. I was not able to get the S97 to output below black levels properly - it is always a little brighter than my HTPC, which in theory is like an Accupel generator like you pointed out.

Good input here guys!

I havent tested the Oppo for -8 brightness and +6 contrast and 2.3 - 2.4 for gamma (on my display). Will give this a whirl tonight for macroblock.

cheers

This is my first post. I just received OPPO and Panny 8uk and am using DVI connection. When I am playing back a DVD and trying to push DVI botton for resolution switching, I can' t see any response in the display. Would anyone help with that?

Ah, exellent...nothing like conflicting advice to make things -really- confusing.

I had noticed with bemusement posts some 100 back that the "ramping scale" of +5 brightness translating to -2, but I had, for no good reason, assumed this just affected those that had calibrated with the Oppo, and they'd need to re-do their calib for 0.

Sadly, I guess I was wrong.

So, in one little place (say, just below this post), what's the ideal setting for CRT RPTV for brightness and contrast settings. Since I'm using Oppo as my benchmark, sticking Avia/DVE in and tweaking the heck out of my tv to make it look purdy, I might as well set the Oppo to where it -should- be, and then set the TV in like turn...

-2 with +1 Contrast? Perhaps -6/+4? 0/0?

On an unrelated note, two silly bugs that I haven't heard about in some time still creep up - one's the Subtitle bug, where "forced" titles (think Star Wars creaturespeak) don't come up. With titles on "auto", they always come on, with them "off", forced don't work unless you manually select them. Annoying, but there's a work around.

Second, the damn angle bug's still there... I thought it had been fixed, but aparently not. The new Who DVD (Tommy/Quadrophenia) has a groovy "visual commentary" using angle, but, despite being "off" in setup, the angle button stays on screen. I'm currently watching and listening to the disc using my RP-82.

sigh... baby steps...

Welcome to the AVS Forums lqstone. You can't switch the DVI output mode while you are watching a dvd. You need to use the DVI output mode before you start the dvd or push stop during a dvd viewing to change the DVI output. Blasst

That does the trick. Thanks a lot, Blasst.

So, in one little place (say, just below this post), what's the ideal setting for CRT RPTV for brightness and contrast settings. Since I'm using Oppo as my benchmark, sticking Avia/DVE in and tweaking the heck out of my tv to make it look purdy, I might as well set the Oppo to where it -should- be, and then set the TV in like turn... OK, we are discussing 2 completely different scenarios here... Studio RGB and PC RGB. With the latest firmware:
If your display is expecting Studio RGB (16-235) at the DVI input, brightness and contrast have been confirmed to be correct at: -3 and 0 respectively.
If your display is expecting PC RGB (0-255) at the DVI input, brightness and contrast have NOT yet been confirmed at: -8 and +4 respectively.
I suspect your CRT RPTV is expecting Studio RGB.

The point of my last few posts has been to explore the possibility of reducing macroblocking on digital displays like DLP, which can accept either PC or Studio RGB. It seems that I have completely eliminated macroblocking from my DLP.

The advice to take away, is: If you have macroblocking problems, feel free to experiment with your brightness and contrast settings, but don't rely on other people's settings. As long as you do not crush the blacks or whites, and you calibrate the display's brightness/ contrast to each OPPO setting you try, you may be very pleasantly surprised.

k, I'll try that...:) CRT's obviously expecting Studio not pc...


ps. joyfully have never had macroblocking on my pc...

There is no harm is testing these settings out...if u dont like them..just revert them back..its not the end of the world..

Be grateful that others here take the time to test out and share that info, i am for sure because i have neither the tools or the knowhow to conduct detailed tests to verify the accuracy of the settings.

OK, we are discussing 2 completely different scenarios here... Studio RGB and PC RGB. With the latest firmware:
If your display is expecting Studio RGB (16-235) at the DVI input, brightness and contrast have been confirmed to be correct at: -3 and 0 respectively.
If your display is expecting PC RGB (0-255) at the DVI input, brightness and contrast have NOT yet been confirmed at: -8 and +6 respectively.
I suspect your CRT RPTV is expecting Studio RGB.

I've done some testing on this and found that with my NEC Plasma, using the RGB PC on the DVI setting, and with default contrast(52), brightness(32), gamma(2.3), i found that i got great results with the Oppo set to:

Brightness: -5
Contrast: +4
Saturation: -2
CSS: Off
True Life: Off
Noise Reduction: Low

This was tested on a worst case scenario: a 350meg AVI file compressed with DivX5. The results were the best compromise in bringing out details in blacks so far i've seen on most of my personal calibration.

On a dvd movie, its looking good, no macroblocking so far on any scene in Monsters Inc.

Again as GSB said earlier, try this but each display will be different and also ambient lighting will affect your calibration, so just tweak the settings to suit. Hope this helps ppl with an NEC Plasma out there.

Marcoblocking and Gamma on LCD PJ.

The ae700 allows you to adjust the gamma high/mid/low. However I tweak it MB can't be removed or, on severe discs, even tamed that much (the R1 NTSC Now Voyager and the R2 PAL Downfall are my torture tests--Who'd have thought Hitler's bunker would have green and pink walls?). This maybe because I'm tweaking at the display end. If we could tweak at the oppo end things might be different?

Tweaking the Gamma does, however, suggest a relationship between the two in that I can make it slightly worse or slightly better but not eliminate it.

On a related note, the Avia gamma test image just makes me feel sick/uncomfortable whilst using it (like watching a DLP)--it kind of turns green (to my eyes only) after about 30 seconds of defocusing so I can't tell what level the gamma is at. I've also noticed a kind of creeping MB on some of the test patterns on DVE if you leave them on for along time (e.g. the reverse grayscale ramps), which was a surprise.

I ought to add that MB is not a severe problem on the AE700, except in black and white movies--but as I've said before I just turn the colour right down and that kills it.

Dave

The ae700 allows you to adjust the gamma high/mid/low. However I tweak it MB can't be removed or, on severe discs, even tamed that much (the R1 NTSC Now Voyager and the R2 PAL Downfall are my torture tests--Who'd have thought Hitler's bunker would have green and pink walls?). This maybe because I'm tweaking at the display end. If we could tweak at the oppo end things might be different?

Tweaking the Gamma does, however, suggest a relationship between the two in that I can make it slightly worse or slightly better but not eliminate it. Dave, some more things to keep in mind:

The Gamma setting on the AE700 may not give you a big enough range of adjustment.

The "Hotel Rwanda" DVD had a few cases of the worst macroblocking I've ever seen. A beige wall in one scene produced horrific, pulsating pink and green blocks on my DLP. I was so appalled, that I decided to put the disk in my old 480i player, connected to a CRT TV. I could still see the pink and green splotches moving around in there (although the blocks were less defined and more subdued in color). So obviously, the pink/green macroblocking was recorded on the disk, but the Faroudja chip and my DLP were having a wail of a time enhancing it. So there will be some cases of macroblocking, on particularly bad disks, that cannot be eliminated entirely - they will be visible on any player / display combination. What we are trying to do, is reduce the macroblock enhancement. I'm going to rent that disk again to test with my latest settings.

I've found that the Avia RGB filters do not give accurate results with my DLP primaries. When I set saturation to 0% on the "color decoder check" test pattern, faces look a little sunburned, with a strange red/green shift, and the picture generally looks a bit over-saturated. So I set my saturation to about -5% to get the picture looking right. That also suppresses the color-enhancement that occurs during macroblocking.

Dave, some more things to keep in mind:

The Gamma setting on the AE700 may not give you a big enough range of adjustment.

I was so appalled, that I decided to put the disk in my old 480i player, connected to a CRT TV. I could still see the pink and green splotches moving around in there (although the blocks were less defined and more subdued in color). So obviously, the pink/green macroblocking was recorded on the disk, but the Faroudja chip and my DLP were having a wail of a time enhancing it. So there will be some cases of macroblocking, on particularly bad disks, that cannot be eliminated entirely.

Thanks GSB. I checked the discs, the R1 Now, Voyager and the R2 Downfall, on my CRT TV/Sony 480i/576i DVD player after reading your responses. There was no visible macroblocking on either. Indeed neither of these are poorly authored discs--both are sharp, with a high bit-rate. Downfall is a bit noisy, but I think it was filmed that way to get the handheld documentary look. I've seen the R1 Now, Voyager classed as a reference standard disc elsewhere!

As to the gamma adjustment on the ae700, well it could be that it's too narrow in range, but I think it's possibly the other way. The difference a couple of nudges up the scale makes to the picture is extreme!

Of course, it might also be that gamma doesn't affect an LCD the way it affects a DLP.

Any other LCD pj users out there to check this?

Dave

one's the Subtitle bug, where "forced" titles (think Star Wars creaturespeak) don't come up. With titles on "auto", they always come on, with them "off", forced don't work unless you manually select them. Annoying, but there's a work around.

Set the Oppo's subtitle setting for "Off". Then, after inserting the DVD, go into the disc menus and choose "None" for subtitles. The alien language subtitles will appear again as they should. Yes, it's a minor nuisance, but if you get into the habit of double-checking your audio and subtitle settings with every DVD you play, it stops bothering you eventually. I do this anyway, because I own too many discs that default to Dolby 2.0 audio unless you specifically choose 5.1 in the disc menus.

I checked the discs, the R1 Now, Voyager and the R2 Downfall, on my CRT TV/Sony 480i/576i DVD player after reading your responses. There was no visible macroblocking on either. Indeed neither of these are poorly authored discs--both are sharp, with a high bit-rate... I've seen the R1 Now, Voyager classed as a reference standard disc elsewhere! Has your PJ had a good calibration? It sounds as though it needs to be tweaked to use the FULL range of available contrast.

Set the Oppo's subtitle setting for "Off". Then, after inserting the DVD, go into the disc menus and choose "None" for subtitles.

Clever "hack", hadn't noticed that (it's probably on pg 1, but, well, I can at least claim to have posted in the first 10 or so pages of this thread... Man, this has a lot of stuff in it...

My workaround, of course, was just to go to subtitle track 2 on the SW films. Yours is, of course, a more elegant solution.

As mentioned, still haven't found a workaround for the angle bug...

Has your PJ had a good calibration? It sounds as though it needs to be tweaked to use the FULL range of available contrast.

Oh yes! That's pretty much what I do of a day--though only in the amateur sense. Contrast is set as high as it can be without losing white definition at the top end of the greyscale ramp (setting contrast on an LCD is, though, a problem). I also check this on things like cloud detail in movies and highlights in flesh tones. If I move the contrast one iota on the oppo the top three blocks on DVE greyscale ramp get wiped out. Though I've definitely seen a correlation between brightness and macroblocking I'm not so sure about contrast yet. (FYI on the oppo brightness is at -3, contrast at default--latest firmware). Certainly on these discs raising contrast just makes whites too hot and obscures detail.

Dave

This may sound like a newbie question, but here it goes. If my television is capable of displaying 540p with the Oppo should I use this or upconvert all the way to 1080i? And what is 540p? I never realized my television was capable of displaying this until using the Oppo. Would this be technically "half" the resolution of 1080i?

This may sound like a newbie question, but here it goes. If my television is capable of displaying 540p with the Oppo should I use this or upconvert all the way to 1080i? And what is 540p? I never realized my television was capable of displaying this until using the Oppo. Would this be technically "half" the resolution of 1080i?
If your TV can display 540p, then I would let the Oppo do conversion to progressice scan 540p.
Does your TV have a HDMI or DVI input? If it only has component-input, then the Oppo's main capabilities are of no use for you, since it passes the DVD-signal unprocessed to the component outputs. Only via DVI/HDMI, you can use progressive-scan, upconversion etc.

If your TV can handle 540p, then imho there is no use upconverting the picture in the Oppo, since your TV cannot make use of the upconverted picture. Leave the Oppo in 540p - the chips inside the Oppo do supposedly a better job with progressive scan that your TV might be able to...

Joerg

My workaround, of course, was just to go to subtitle track 2 on the SW films. Yours is, of course, a more elegant solution.

As mentioned, still haven't found a workaround for the angle bug...

The angle mark bug is still a work in progress. Turning Angle Mark to "off" works on some DVDs, like Tomorrow Never Dies, but doesn't work on some other DVDs, like the Alien Quadrilogy.

I've mentioned this to Oppo a couple of times and they said they're working on it. From what I can tell, I believe their immediate focus is on adjusting the Faroudja scaling chip, whereas both the subtitles and angle mark are a function of the MPEG decoder. Pure speculation here, but the recent lawsuit against Mediatek might be slowing down the support and assistance they get from that company.

If I move the contrast one iota on the oppo the top three blocks on DVE greyscale ramp get wiped out. Though I've definitely seen a correlation between brightness and macroblocking I'm not so sure about contrast yet. (FYI on the oppo brightness is at -3, contrast at default--latest firmware). Certainly on these discs raising contrast just makes whites too hot and obscures detail. Hi Dave. It may be that your LCD handles Studio RGB only. In that case, what you've done is correct (brightness -3, contrast 0). However, if your display can handle PC RGB, you should be able to set the Oppo's brightness and contrast to, say, -6 and +2 and still successfully recalibrate your LCD without crushing blacks and whites. Then you may see some benefit. The thing to watch for though, is banding in grayscale ramps. You want to pick the settings that create the smoothest gradient.

Incidentally, with a digital display like LCD, you generally calibrate brightness so that you cannot see the blacker-than-black bar on DVE. It should just merge with black.

Just to be clear, I don't think contrast necessarily has a correlation to macroblocking, but using the full range of your display's available contrast ratio does. In other words, using as many digital steps as possible to represent the grayscale ramp. If your display is designed for Studio RGB, it may already be doing that. My display is PC RGB, so some of those digital steps are wasted at the input, unless I set the Oppo's brightness and contrast to PC RGB levels.

Josh Z,

That is correct. The Angle Mark and wrong Forced/unForced Subtitle error is all done though the MTK mainboard. There will be a time when these are fixed, but as to how long we have to wait, no one really knows (even OPPO).

That is correct. The Angle Mark and wrong Forced/unForced Subtitle error is all done though the MTK mainboard. There will be a time when these are fixed, but as to how long we have to wait, no one really knows (even OPPO).

I also desperately want them to add a function for manually adjusting the position of subtitles. This is a real problem for 2.35:1 constant height front projection users for any movie where subtitles are positioned in the lower black letterbox bar.

GSB,

I have a Samsung DLP as well and I thought the digital inputs were set for studio RGB? I have the 5063 with one DVI input and one HDMI input. Using the HDMI input for the Oppo. How do I tell the Samsung to accept PC RGB? Sorry if you have already explained this but I'm a little confused.

FWIW, my Samsung has been ISF'd - I leave it on Standard picture mode w/ the default settings (contrast 100, brightness 50 (I think)). My Oppo's brightness is at 0 and contrast is at -5 (prior to the latest firmware upgrade I was at +6 and -5). Seems to provide the best gray ramps pattern.

I also desperately want them to add a function for manually adjusting the position of subtitles. This is a real problem for 2.35:1 constant height front projection users for any movie where subtitles are positioned in the lower black letterbox bar.

You will probably have to wait for the major problems to be addressed before any "custom" abilities will be added to the OPDV971H. They added in my request for OGG/OGM, but not I still need to wait for my APE/FLAC support.

I have a Samsung DLP as well and I thought the digital inputs were set for studio RGB? I have the 5063 with one DVI input and one HDMI input. Using the HDMI input for the Oppo. How do I tell the Samsung to accept PC RGB? Sorry if you have already explained this but I'm a little confused.

FWIW, my Samsung has been ISF'd - I leave it on Standard picture mode w/ the default settings (contrast 100, brightness 50 (I think)). Can't recall my Oppo's setting right now but they are not -3 / 0; pretty sure brightness is at 0 and contrast is +4 or something like that. Seems to provide the best gray ramps pattern. Eric, I'm not sure if the HDMI input is any different from DVI, so I couldn't tell you whether it will accept PC RGB. Your ISF calibration may have been done to Studio RGB levels... but on the other hand, your strange OPPO settings (0, +4) are not Studio RGB, so maybe he did set the OPPO to output PC RGB (with the previous firmware), or maybe he fiddled a bit to get a smooth grayscale?

Leaving your TV on Standard picture mode with the default settings (contrast 100, brightness 50) is the right thing to do after an ISF calibration. BUT... bear in mind that the latest OPPO firmware adjusted the default brightness level, so if the cal was done before flashing the latest firmware, you need to adjust your Samsung's brightness and contrast settings.

If you want to try the things I did to reduce macroblocking, first write down all your current settings, both on the OPPO and the TV. Keep a calibration DVD handy, and a DVD that typically causes macroblock enhancement. Make a mental note (or take photos) of the grayscale ramp and macroblocking problem for future comparison.

Make the OPPO adjustments. I'd recommend starting with brightness -6 and contrast +2. If your HDMI input can accept PC RGB, you should be able to adjust your TV's brightness and contrast to compensate in the user menu. Experiment with the OPPO's brightness and contrast settings, adjusting your TV each time. Look for the smoothest gray ramp with no crushing of blacks or whites, and check the macroblocking problem again. Note that if you're using DVE, you should calibrate the TV's brightness so that the blacker-than-black bar just merges with black. Have fun.

well, just about to recalibrate my tv to -3/0... wish me luck...:)

On a silly note, I have an MP3 dvd with a gazillion folders on it (each album organized into a seperate folder)... It sure doesn't seem that there are any nice options for shuffle, or at least that those options work (cycling through such options as "folder" or "mp3 shuffle" don't seem to do much).

Simple q: can I just have a bazillion MP3s in all kinds of different folders or subfolders and have the Oppo dive into each for some mega shuffle? Or, more real world case, can I set it so that when it's done playing one folder (album) it can move to the next one? It don't seem to do dat right now...

Eric, I'm not sure if the HDMI input is any different from DVI, so I couldn't tell you whether it will accept PC RGB. Your ISF calibration may have been done to Studio RGB levels... but on the other hand, your strange OPPO settings (0, +4) are not Studio RGB, so maybe he did set the OPPO to output PC RGB (with the previous firmware), or maybe he fiddled a bit to get a smooth grayscale?

Leaving your TV on Standard picture mode with the default settings (contrast 100, brightness 50) is the right thing to do after an ISF calibration. BUT... bear in mind that the latest OPPO firmware adjusted the default brightness level, so if the cal was done before flashing the latest firmware, you need to adjust your Samsung's brightness and contrast settings.

If you want to try the things I did to reduce macroblocking, first write down all your current settings, both on the OPPO and the TV. Keep a calibration DVD handy, and a DVD that typically causes macroblock enhancement. Make a mental note (or take photos) of the grayscale ramp and macroblocking problem for future comparison.

Make the OPPO adjustments. I'd recommend starting with brightness -6 and contrast +2. If your HDMI input can accept PC RGB, you should be able to adjust your TV's brightness and contrast to compensate in the user menu. Experiment with the OPPO's brightness and contrast settings, adjusting your TV each time. Look for the smoothest gray ramp with no crushing of blacks or whites, and check the macroblocking problem again. Note that if you're using DVE, you should calibrate the TV's brightness so that the blacker-than-black bar just merges with black. Have fun.

GSB,

Thanks for the response. My Oppo settings above (now edited) weren't accurate. I have brightness at 0 and contrast at -5 (prior to the firmware update I had brightness at +6 and contrast at -5). Have CCS, True Life and Noise Reduction all set to Off.

When I had my set ISF'd it was w/ my Panny S97 - didn't have the Oppo at the time. The S97 introduced a ton of noise and the calibrator recommended the Oppo. When I got the Oppo I calibrated it myself and left the Samsung the way it was calibrated (Standard w/ Contrast - 100; Brightness - 45; Sharpness - 0 and Color - 50). As I mentioned above, brightness of +6 and contrast of -5 on the Oppo seemed to yield the smoothest gray ramps. With the new firmware I recalibrated on the Oppo only and got 0 and -5. Don't see why I would need to adjust the Sammy at all. Shouldn't I just readjust the settings on the Oppo whenever they change the firmware as my TV's HDMI input is calibrated properly?

Very pleased w/ the PQ overall. Was more curious about how you set the Samsung to PC RGB - thought maybe there was a setting I was missing. But it sounds like you just compensate for however your source is set up by using the brightness and contrast settings on the Sammy.

GSB,

Thanks for everything you do for the community! I thinka we all appreciate your expertise.

I have asked for your help before, I ask again!

You said you can calibrate your Sammy to PC or Studio RGB, how do you do that? I don't mind going into the service menu, so any help for me would be great!

Why haven't I had mine calibrated? I live in a place that is hard to get service, on Fort Drum, an army base hours from the nearest descent ISF tech. To make matters worse, I am moving my family to Germany in two weeks, and the movers are taking our housing stuff on Tuesday. So I am in a time crunch.

PM would work if you don't want to publicize important information.

FYI, I have a Samsung HLP 5674 and the Oppo.

Thanks,
Dave

well, just about to recalibrate my tv to -3/0... wish me luck...:)

On a silly note, I have an MP3 dvd with a gazillion folders on it (each album organized into a seperate folder)... It sure doesn't seem that there are any nice options for shuffle, or at least that those options work (cycling through such options as "folder" or "mp3 shuffle" don't seem to do much).

Simple q: can I just have a bazillion MP3s in all kinds of different folders or subfolders and have the Oppo dive into each for some mega shuffle? Or, more real world case, can I set it so that when it's done playing one folder (album) it can move to the next one? It don't seem to do dat right now...

There is no shuffle functionality for MP3s. It works for CDs, but not MP3s. This issue is due to some buffer limitation that OPPO has not been able to get around.

Additionaly, playback is limited to the folder in which you are currently listening to. This is most likely attributed in part to the current way the Explorer is used for MP3 playback, and as to how they buffer (or don't) MP3 playback to allow for random playback from multiple folders.

In Short: You are screwed if you want to play outside of a folder automatically.

Incidentally, with a digital display like LCD, you generally calibrate brightness so that you cannot see the blacker-than-black bar on DVE. It should just merge with black.



Intresting, GSB. I've calibrated black levels so that I can only just see the 2% on DVE. But i'm afraid that if I up the brightness so that the btb becomes invisible macroblocking will increase. I'll give it a whirl later to day and report back. It might be that some crushed blacks are the price for not getting macroblocking.

I put a query on the ae700 thread to check if anyone knows it can take PC RGB and how to set it up.

Dave

Hi,

Just wondering whether anyone is experiencing problems playing discs from other regions after the latest firmware upgrade. The access to the secret menu (i.e. 9210) is also not functioning in my case. Hope someone can shed a light on this.

Thks

In Short: You are screwed if you want to play outside of a folder automatically.

That's what I figgered... It's odd that there are all these shuffle folders options that, well, do nada.

BTW, I think by not having to push the TV so much to get 0/0 to work with the oppo I got an even better pic this calibration session at -3/0. I'm pretty proud of myself, it looks damn good, full ramps in grey, all the colours spot on (this was the first major calibration that I actually deigned to adjust the cut/drv settings, rather than just the minor colour adjustments. Scary!) Overscan's dead-on at 5% (with my anti-glare screen that's as good as you want to get), focus seems lovely... It's nice when it all works, isn't it?

Hi,

Just wondering whether anyone is experiencing problems playing discs from other regions after the latest firmware upgrade. The access to the secret menu (i.e. 9210) is also not functioning in my case. Hope someone can shed a light on this.

Thks

Try to upgrade the firmware again. The firmware does not do ECC checking so there is a possibility that your first attempt failed. I would download a fresh ISO and make a new firmware CD.

Make sure you press 9210 very quickly. If you are too slow, it will not trigger the "secret" menu.

BTW, I think by not having to push the TV so much to get 0/0 to work with the oppo I got an even better pic this calibration session at -3/0. I'm pretty proud of myself, it looks damn good, full ramps in grey, all the colours spot on (this was the first major calibration that I actually deigned to adjust the cut/drv settings, rather than just the minor colour adjustments. Scary!) Overscan's dead-on at 5% (with my anti-glare screen that's as good as you want to get), focus seems lovely... It's nice when it all works, isn't it?

This is probably why OPPO did not do a second recall on the firmware. Originally, people were pushing their brightness settings very hard on their display device, causing many macroblocking problems. People within this community learned about increasing the brightness on the OPPO, but who knows what the general public was doing (well, aside from OPPO's tech support). Even if the DVI is not at studio levels, it forces the user to calibrate their display device, something they either did not do in the first place, or did improperly in the past.

We will get a proper brightness level one of these days, but at least now there should be less and less talk about macroblocking.

I don't know if this off-topic or not, please 4give me if it is. I'm looking at purchasing a multi-function LCD monitor, either a Sammie Syncmaster 940MW or a Sony TV Tuner/Monitor (MFM-HT75W), both of which have analog RGB & DVI-D Inputs. After reading the spex sheets it seems both only have the DVI dedicated for PC Input only. I was wondering if this means I won't be able to utilize the OPPO with these devices, via the DVI output? If infact that's the case do any of you know any other solutions for a multi-function LCD monitor? Please keep in mind I only want to spend a maximum of $600. US.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. If this is not the proper forum to talk such stuff maybe you could point me to one that could offer me some insight to this endeavor.

Brian

I don't like the sound from the Oppo. How can I bypass the volume control/DTS builtin decoder from Oppo and use raw digital signal output and conrolled by my AV receiver?

I have a component output problem with my Oppo 971H...
I thought it was my new sanyo HDTV, 'til I recovered & fired up my old
Pioneer DVD player and verified the component inputs worked fine.

When using the component connection, I have a very brite wedge
of light, across the top of the Monitor's display area, when viewing for
instance a animorphic 2.35:1 image.
This of course is extremely distracting.
The "wedge of light" starts at about 1/16" in the upper left corner &
expands to nearly 1/4" by the time it reaches the top right... as you
face the display.

This does not occur, using the S-Video connection, or CATV.
It does not appear on FS 4.3 images.

I contacted Oppo, and they indicated "it was 'one' they hadn't run across".
After a couple of days, they again contacted me indicating I should RMA the deck for inspection & repair.
To be honest.. I didn't think this was the best answer, as the Player is about 3-4 weeks old & it was apparently a "out-of-the-box problem".
But, that's between Oppo & myself.

I'm wondering if anyone else has run across this problem & knows the cause or cure(??).

I have to give the Pioneer back to my Daughter, so I'm looking at a playerless system, for a time, if I have to RMA.

Thanks..

I contacted Oppo, and they indicated "it was 'one' they hadn't run across".
After a couple of days, they again contacted me indicating I should RMA the deck for inspection & repair.
To be honest.. I didn't think this was the best answer, as the Player is about 3-4 weeks old & it was apparently a "out-of-the-box problem".
But, that's between Oppo & myself.

Would you have rather they said "Sorry, you are SOL"? Hardware is imperfect. No matter what, there will always be defective product that goes out. If OPPO hasn't seen the problem, then they can't give a proper response as to what can be done to solve the problem. They are hedging their bet that it is an isolated instance, otherwise they would have not have asked for the unit back.

I have not seen this problem with my limited component testing on my equipement. Hopefully someone else will have a better response.

I don't like the sound from the Oppo. How can I bypass the volume control/DTS builtin decoder from Oppo and use raw digital signal output and conrolled by my AV receiver?

The closest you will get to "digital passthrough" (bit transparent) is setting the OPDV971H to RAW (S/PDIF) and setting the highest supported sampling rate for the LPCM.

Most likely Amazon.com is still using the old 0628 firmware, or the factory beta firmware 0925.
Yup, I just got mine from Amazon this week. Whatever firmware it had, it must have been an old one as it wouldn't even display it.

I have a component output problem with my Oppo 971H...

When using the component connection, I have a very brite wedge of light, across the top of the Monitor's display area, when viewing for instance a animorphic 2.35:1 image. No this is not common. It does not occur on my machine, and nobody else has ever reported a problem like this. Let OPPO exchange it.

GSB,

Thanks for everything you do for the community! I thinka we all appreciate your expertise.

I have asked for your help before, I ask again!

You said you can calibrate your Sammy to PC or Studio RGB, how do you do that? I don't mind going into the service menu, so any help for me would be great!

Why haven't I had mine calibrated? I live in a place that is hard to get service, on Fort Drum, an army base hours from the nearest descent ISF tech. To make matters worse, I am moving my family to Germany in two weeks, and the movers are taking our housing stuff on Tuesday. So I am in a time crunch.

PM would work if you don't want to publicize important information.

FYI, I have a Samsung HLP 5674 and the Oppo. Hi Dave. I also do all my own calibrations now. I make so many changes and experiment with different settings to see what benefits may come from it. That requires fairly frequent recalibration and I'm not going to pay $200-300 a pop!

Calibrating the Samsung DLP to PC or Studio RGB simply requires brightness and contrast adjustments. Most DVI DVD players output Studio RGB (digital codes 16-235). The OPPO does the same when set to brightness -3 and contrast 0. But you can get it to output PC RGB (digital codes 0-255) by setting the brightness and contrast to -8 and +4 (approximately). But I'd recommend that you start with -6 and +2 as a baseline. Then all you do on the Samsung, is adjust brightness and contrast to compensate (using Avia or DVE). You can do that in the service menu or the user menu.

To do a full service menu calibration yourself, you may wish to see the technique I posted on the HLN forum here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5120358&&#post5120358). It works very well for all the Samsung DLP's. It incorporates Clyde Washburn's excellent method of calibrating for maximum red output. This method will squeeze out every last bit of contrast that your set can give, while remaining D65 accurate all the way to 100% white. The results are stunning. In the HLP models, turn CCA OFF in the service menu before trying this method.

All the best with your move.

GSB,

Thanks for the response. My Oppo settings above (now edited) weren't accurate. I have brightness at 0 and contrast at -5 (prior to the firmware update I had brightness at +6 and contrast at -5). Have CCS, True Life and Noise Reduction all set to Off.

When I had my set ISF'd it was w/ my Panny S97 - didn't have the Oppo at the time. The S97 introduced a ton of noise and the calibrator recommended the Oppo. When I got the Oppo I calibrated it myself and left the Samsung the way it was calibrated (Standard w/ Contrast - 100; Brightness - 45; Sharpness - 0 and Color - 50). As I mentioned above, brightness of +6 and contrast of -5 on the Oppo seemed to yield the smoothest gray ramps. With the new firmware I recalibrated on the Oppo only and got 0 and -5. Don't see why I would need to adjust the Sammy at all. Shouldn't I just readjust the settings on the Oppo whenever they change the firmware as my TV's HDMI input is calibrated properly?

Very pleased w/ the PQ overall. Was more curious about how you set the Samsung to PC RGB - thought maybe there was a setting I was missing. But it sounds like you just compensate for however your source is set up by using the brightness and contrast settings on the Sammy.Yes, you just compensate for PC/Studio RGB by using the brightness and contrast settings on the Sammy. If you are pleased with the results, that's great. That's what counts most. My tweaks were specifically trying to address macroblocking.

Your settings do not sound very optimal, though. You are not using the full range of the Studio RGB output, never-mind PC RGB. Aside from another recal, you could still play with the Oppo's brightness and contrast settings - just make sure that you are able to compensate for those changes in your Samsung's user-menu (using Avia or DVE). Try brightness of -6 and contrast of +2 to start with. If the Samsung cannot compensate, or if the gray ramp is not too smooth, try some new values. Tweaking the user-menu does not upset your calibration. But do make a note of your current settings before you tweak, so you can go back if you don't like the results.

See my last post for additional info.

Nice writeup on calibration GSB!

6500K Daylight florescent light source is good for "ballpark" temp evaluation.

I can't believe some of the "Warm" and "Cool" settings available on some displays. Ugh.

Paul

Try to upgrade the firmware again. The firmware does not do ECC checking so there is a possibility that your first attempt failed. I would download a fresh ISO and make a new firmware CD.

Make sure you press 9210 very quickly. If you are too slow, it will not trigger the "secret" menu.


Thks. will try it out and keep my fingers crossed.

GSB,

Thanks very much!!!!

With the Oppo hooked up to my FP via DVI, I could not adjust bightness/contrast/color in my FP, and had to rely on bightness/contrast/saturation from the Oppo. The PQ is great with good details, but for some reason the color leans toward purplish. How do I change/adjust and steer the color away from purple? I have DVE which has helped, but this is advanced calibration. My FP is Sharp 10k which allow adjustment to individual color (red/blue/yellow/..) using hue/chroma control. Thanks for any comments.

Hello Forum....I cant find anything about the video modes in the manual. What are they and what do they do? whats "best"?
Video 1 or Video 2?

Anders.

Hello Forum....I cant find anything about the video modes in the manual. What are they and what do they do? whats "best"?
Video 1 or Video 2?

Anders.

This is from the release notes to the last firware (avaiable here: http://www.oppodigital.com/opdv971h_firmware_1022_release_note.html)

The improvements and changes included in this version are the followings:

1. Support 2:2 cadence for PAL movies.

In the “General Setup” menu page, there is now a “Video Mode” option. The choices are “Video 1” and “Video 2”. The “Video 1” mode is the same as the previous version firmware, which does not support 2:2 cadence for PAL movies. The “Video 2” mode supports 2:2 cadence for PAL movies. However in “Video 2” mode all analog video outputs (Composite, S-Video, Component) will not perform NTSC/PAL system conversion. The video output from any of the analog connectors will have the same NTSC or PAL system as encoded on the DVD disc itself.

In summary:

If you mainly watch North American NTSC versions of movies and video programs on DVD, and would like to keep the NTSC/PAL system conversion function on the analog video outputs, you should select the “Video 1” mode. In this case imported PAL discs with 2:2 cadence will still play, but not with the best possible picture quality.
If you only use the DVI video output and would like to get the best possible picture quality for both NTSC and PAL discs, you should select the “Video 2” mode. In this case the analog video outputs will not perform NTSC/PAL system conversion.


Hope this helps.

Dave

With the Oppo hooked up to my FP via DVI, I could not adjust bightness/contrast/color in my FP, and had to rely on bightness/contrast/saturation from the Oppo. The PQ is great with good details, but for some reason the color leans toward purplish. How do I change/adjust and steer the color away from purple? I have DVE which has helped, but this is advanced calibration. My FP is Sharp 10k which allow adjustment to individual color (red/blue/yellow/..) using hue/chroma control. Thanks for any comments.

Some displays can lock up with certain inputs escpecially DVI/HDMI. This may be the case for you.

Dave

Would you have rather they said "Sorry, you are SOL"? Hardware is imperfect. No matter what, there will always be defective product that goes out. If OPPO hasn't seen the problem, then they can't give a proper response as to what can be done to solve the problem. They are hedging their bet that it is an isolated instance, otherwise they would have not have asked for the unit back.

I have not seen this problem with my limited component testing on my equipement. Hopefully someone else will have a better response.

he..he.. I know as well as anyone, about imperfect hardware, I build computers.

I was merely looking for insight, and grant I should have kept my thought on Oppo's offer to repair to myself.

However, since you pointedly commented on it...
I guess I am less thrilled than you would be, to receive an offer to "RMA for inspection & repair" a very recently purchased "New" item.
Frankly, I'd have been happier with an offer to replace, and with a return ship label for the troubled unit.

GSB... Roger that..
I'd be happy to have them "replace" it. :)

Oh, well..

Make sure you follow the extra steps required for black remote users to get the new ROM to work and access the player.
They are as follow:

Turn on your DVD player and display device.
Eject any disc that may be inside of the DVD player. Remove the disc and close the tray.
Wait for the display message "No Disc" to appear in the upper left corner of your display device.
Press and hold (hard) the Stop button on the front panel of the DVD unit (NOT THE REMOTE) for 5 seconds. Release.
The new message "New RC" will appear briefly in the upper left hand corner of your display unit.

TekWorm,

Their "RMA process for inspection and repair" is a blanket statement to make sure you are still interested in the product if you did not directly ask for a RMA. If you are, then they give you options as to how the RMA will be processed (I opted for an Advance Replacement when my optical went out 3 weeks into the product's life). Reply to them directly requesting a RAM number, and you will see what developes.

TekWorm,

Their "RMA process for inspection and repair" is a blanket statement to makes ure you are still interested in the product if you did not directly ask for a RMA. If you are, then they give you options as to how the RMA will be processed (I opted for an Advance Replacement when my optical went out 3 weeks into the products life). Reply to them directly requesting a RAM number, and you will see what developes.

Gotcha'.. thanks.
With all that's been happenin' (Kids), I just took it descriptively never thinkin' it might be a "one-reply-fits-all" type of contact. :D

Is it me, or do all the video settings (sharpness, brightness, contrast, etc.) do not affect the video through the composite output? I change them from one extreme to the other and I can see absolutely no difference.

Is it me, or do all the video settings (sharpness, brightness, contrast, etc.) do not affect the video through the composite output? I change them from one extreme to the other and I can see absolutely no difference.

The video settings only effect the DVI output.

does the DV971H turn on with the play command (or any other command other than toggle on/off)? I am looking for a work around to reliably turn it on/off. For example, can you plug it into a switched outlet?

Is it me, or do all the video settings (sharpness, brightness, contrast, etc.) do not affect the video through the composite output? I change them from one extreme to the other and I can see absolutely no difference.

You should only be using the OPPO for the DVI output. Any other output and the quality blows.

does the DV971H turn on with the play command (or any other command other than toggle on/off)? I am looking for a work around to reliably turn it on/off. For example, can you plug it into a switched outlet?

No. The Power button is the only button that will turn on the unit. Additionally, removing the power through a switched outlet while the unit is on will not turn it back on when the power is re-applied.

I thought I read in the thread somewhere that the OPPO remembers the dvd position when you cycle the power on the unit, if you leave the same dvd in.

Does anyone's OPPO do that? Mine doesn't.

I haven't tried to split point in the new firmware to remember the position when you remove a dvd, but it would be nice if the player remembered the position from a simple power down. I have to start at the very beginning boot every time I turn the player back on if we don't finish a movie the night before, and work through the FBI screen, etc.

Can anyone shed light on this?

Thanks,

Wes

Requires the new (1012) firmware.
Stop the DVD by pressing the "EJECT" button on the remote.
When you re-start that particular DVD, it will que you to press "SELECT" to resume... or "PLAY" to start over.

You should only be using the OPPO for the DVI output. Any other output and the quality blows.

Really??
I am quite impressed with the performance thru the Component Out.... except for the previously discussed problem, not related to the picture itself.

Most DVI DVD players output Studio RGB (digital codes 16-235). The OPPO does the same when set to brightness -3 and contrast 0. But you can get it to output PC RGB (digital codes 0-255) by setting the brightness and contrast to -8 and +4 (approximately). But I'd recommend that you start with -6 and +2 as a baseline.

Well, GSB, I'm testing this out at present. I started at -6 and +2 but found I could also set brightness -8 to contrast +4 on the oppo and recalibrate the AE700 using DVE and preserve a good greyscale ramp. What amazed me was that I could keep--and add to--my fairly high contrast so the image zings (looks too hot on the whites on less that well authored DVDs, though, especially old black and white ones.). This combination really appears to add to depth of field as good greyscale should.

As a way to eliminate macroblock enhance it seems to help--this conclusion is tentative--I watched a 2 hour episode of Heimat last night, half in colour half in black and white, and I didn't notice any macroblocking at all. Heimat has always been a problem in the past. But it only lessens rather than eliminates macroblocking on my torture discs (given above). My intitial feeling is that your solution is indeed reducing the 'enhance' but not removing any problems that are authored on the DVD, which of course, it couldn't do (though, as I've said before, my torture discs do not exhibit macroblocking on my interlaced Sony player and CRT, but that maybe becuase the image is too small to show it?).

Thanks for the tweak GSB. I'll keep testing this to see if I'm losing anything by this and report back if anything interesting comes up.

Dave

Really??
I am quite impressed with the performance thru the Component Out.... except for the previously discussed problem, not related to the picture itself.

The component output is only bad in comparison to the DVI output. The Oppo is just an average DVD player using component, comparable to something in the $50 to $75 range. There's nothing special about it, but there's also nothing particularly bad about it as far as I could tell from the brief period of time I was using component.

The component output is only bad in comparison to the DVI output. The Oppo is just an average DVD player using component, comparable to something in the $50 to $75 range. There's nothing special about it, but there's also nothing particularly bad about it as far as I could tell from the brief period of time I was using component.

hmmm... interesting.
Reckon I've managed to acquire a couple real clunker $75 range players :D
Well.. that bein' the case, I spose I might as well just plug-in the S-Video, that my player has no problem with, and go with it.

My active imagination sure saw a difference in quality between the two [*shrugs*]

My bargain CRT has no DVI in.
I was savin' for a nice DLP, when my set blew-up & I had to bust the plan & pick-up what I could afford. :D

Ah, well... must start over..LOL!

Thanks for the education, folks. :)

Well, GSB, I'm testing this out at present. I started at -6 and +2 but found I could also set brightness -8 to contrast +4 on the oppo and recalibrate the AE700 using DVE and preserve a good greyscale ramp. What amazed me was that I could keep--and add to--my fairly high contrast so the image zings (looks too hot on the whites on less that well authored DVDs, though, especially old black and white ones.). This combination really appears to add to depth of field as good greyscale should.

As a way to eliminate macroblock enhance it seems to help--this conclusion is tentative--I watched a 2 hour episode of Heimat last night, half in colour half in black and white, and I didn't notice any macroblocking at all. Heimat has always been a problem in the past. But it only lessens rather than eliminates macroblocking on my torture discs (given above). My intitial feeling is that your solution is indeed reducing the 'enhance' but not removing any problems that are authored on the DVD, which of course, it couldn't do (though, as I've said before, my torture discs do not exhibit macroblocking on my interlaced Sony player and CRT, but that maybe becuase the image is too small to show it?). Dave, nice results. I'm fairly sure that the Oppo does PC RGB when brightness is -8 and contrast is +4. But I think that +4 could be dangerously close to crushing whites. You might try backing off a notch. Some disks do use whiter-than-white info in clouds and the like, and a DLP is capable of showing this. Also try -1 on the Oppo's saturation (or the display) for more macroblock suppression. Keep experimenting, and have fun!

To all who are following, here's an update:

I rented "Hotel Rwanda" again this weekend. This disk seems to be the acid test for macroblocking on my DLP. There are many places in the movie that tend to cause a pulsating mess of pink/green and blue/purple macroblocking on my screen. A full calibration of my set helped a great deal, but there was still macroblocking in many places.

After my recent brightness/contrast adjustments, most of the macroblock-enhancement is now completely gone... almost miraculous in some places. The mist scenes and the beige walls were all perfect, but there was one difficult scene where I saw a few remnants of it... the movie dialog switched back and forth from a very dark (almost black) wall to a dimly lit wall with shadows cast on it. Each time the shot switched to the dimly lit wall, a few small stationery pinkish patches were left on the wall, but they quickly faded and disappeared (within 2-3 seconds). There was no pulsation, and that was the only place I saw it in the whole movie.

All the other disks I've tried have been extremely clean, except for one other case in a dark blue sky, but it was unlike the usual "enhancement" problem. I have not yet concluded whether it was macroblocking recorded visibly on the disk, or if it was indeed some "enhancement" going on.

Nevertheless, my results have been phenomenal.

[QUOTE=GSB]Dave, nice results. I'm fairly sure that the Oppo does PC RGB when brightness is -8 and contrast is +4. But I think that +4 could be dangerously close to crushing whites. You might try backing off a notch. Some disks do use whiter-than-white info in clouds and the like, and a DLP is capable of showing this. Also try -1 on the Oppo's saturation (or the display) for more macroblock suppression. Keep experimenting, and have fun!

GSB, thanks. What do you recommend as a good way for setting the upper white level limits? If I'm at +4 contrast on the oppo and +5 contrast on the AE700 (cinema 2 for those who need to know) I can still see all the steps on the greyscale ramp on DVE, which I take to mean they are not crushed--is this enough or are there other factors? I'll try the saturation too.

Dave

Oh dear! Just noticed that as soon as a DVD is ejected the brightness and contrast settings revert to default! This is not good. I had seen on the other oppo thread that this might be a problem with Video 2 setting and PAL cadence. This certainly makes a mockery of all my earlier analysis and explains why I wan't getting the crushed whites at opp con +4--it was actually at zero and I was 'seeing what I wanted to see.'

Could you all check as see if this is happening to you too? If it is then we ought to contact oppo (I can't recall the address, but I'll look it up).

Thanks,

Dave

Oh dear! Just noticed that as soon as a DVD is ejected the brightness and contrast settings revert to default!

Could you all check as see if this is happening to you too? If it is then we ought to contact oppo (I can't recall the address, but I'll look it up).

Thanks,

Dave

Dave,

I am using video-2 with a Sony 50" LCD-RP and my settings do NOT return to the default. I am at conrast=0 and brightness=-5. They definitely do not revert.

-Toonces

Dave,

I am using video-2 with a Sony 50" LCD-RP and my settings do NOT return to the default. I am at conrast=0 and brightness=-5. They definitely do not revert.

-Toonces

Thanks Tooces. I'm testing GSB's settings (con +2, brightness -8) to lower macroblocking. They appear to work astonishingly well--but I keep losing the settings everytime I press eject. I've reflashed the firmware but no dice. I've emailed oppo and will post their reply.

Dave

EDIT: help! it's much worse that I thought. I only have to press stop and the player forgets the settings!

To make clear what is happening I have the oppo set to con +2 and brightness -8. If I stop or eject the DVD the numbers on the Video Setup Page stay at +2 and -8 but the picture goes back to default (namely it becomes massively brightened as I've recalibrtated my display to the oppo settings!). So some part of the memory is remembering the settings but something else is not applying them. If I go to the Video Setup Page and change brightness, e.g., shift it to -7 then back to -8 it returns to the way I've set it up!

Has anybody got any idea what is causing this? I wouldn't care but GSB's settings of brightness -8 and contrast +2 really do have a massive effect it getting rid of macroblocking enhance.

dgkp,

Try using AUTO instead of PAL. Additionally, don't breakpoint a PAL DVD, because this is most likely causing your problem. There is a PAL "leak" in the firmware which "forgets" your user settings whenever the unit is left in a PAL state. Changing a single setting (up down, down up) will bring it back to its correct functionality.

Also stated in the other thread. Only reply to one please.

dgkp,

Try using AUTO instead of PAL. Additionally, don't breakpoint a PAL DVD, because this is most likely causing your problem. There is a PAL "leak" in the firmware which "forgets" your user settings whenever the unit is left in a PAL state. Changing a single setting (up down, down up) will bring it back to its correct functionality.

Also stated in the other thread. Only reply to one please.

Thanks Neuromancer. This is confusing. My player is set to AUTO, it always has been because I play both PAL and NTSC DVDS. I also considered the break point but as it loses memory when I just stop the DVD I realized that wasn't going to be it alone. Lastly (responding to your point on the other thread), I have read the UK forums and noticed that people have had similar problems with Video 2 and PAL cadence but when I changed another setting (truelife on and off) it made no difference to brightness/contrast.

I got a similar response from oppo (prompt as ever):

"This is a problem with leaving the DVD player in PAL, and not in Auto or
NTSC. There is some memory leaking involved with the PAL setting that we
have not yet isolated. This is not related to the Video 2 setting.

We are working on a solution, but do not know when this will be
accomplished."

But because I thought I was in AUTO anyway I now don't know what's going on. I guess I'll double check. Also I don't think that contrast changes if I change brightness. I'm wondering whether it's to do with the extreme(ish) settings?

Dave

Dave,

It shouldn't be. Maybe we should wake Gary and have him re-test PAL on his Samsung with his current OPDV971H settings and see what happens. I know that if I use a breakpoint/power off on the unit when playing back PAL discs, the unti will "lose" its memory. Changing a single setting (light sharpness) will bring everything back to normal.

I have not seen this happen simply by stopping and resuming playback, though. Try a fresh copy of the firmware and see what happens. If I have time at lunch, I will run home and grab a PAL disc and see what I can't find.

Dave,

It shouldn't be. Maybe we should wake Gary and have him re-test PAL on his Samsung with his current OPDV971H settings and see what happens. I know that if I use a breakpoint/power off on the unit when playing back PAL discs, the unti will "lose" its memory. Changing a single setting (light sharpness) will bring everything back to normal.

I have not seen this happen simply by stopping and resuming playback, though. Try a fresh copy of the firmware and see what happens. If I have time at lunch, I will run home and grab a PAL disc and see what I can't find.

Thanks. I've checked the settings. I was set to Auto. Only if I set to NTSC do my settings get remembered properly. The memory won't be refreshed by changing just one thing I have to go back and do them all separately (possibily including audio delay?).

What I'm curious to know is has it always been like this and it's only becuase I'm now using extreme settings that it's noticeable or whether is it a glitch in the new firmware?

I've emailed this to oppo too.

Dave

Thanks. I've checked the settings. I was set to Auto. Only if I set to NTSC do my settings get remembered properly. The memory won't be refreshed by changing just one thing I have to go back and do them all separately (possibily including audio delay?).

What I'm curious to know is has it always been like this and it's only becuase I'm now using extreme settings that it's noticeable or whether is it a glitch in the new firmware?

I've emailed this to oppo too.

Dave


The PAL has always been like this. So I did some testing, here are my results:

I turned on the DVD player and changed the TV Type to NTSC, turned on Video 2 mode, and bumped the brightness to "+20".

I first attempted a NTSC and PAL disc and the settings were still "+20" when I played back the film.

I then switched to PAL. The video instantly looked like "0" brightness. I increased the brightness to +20. I put in a PAL disc. The PAL disc played back as if the settings were "0" again. I changed a single variable, and the brightness was once again the advertised "+20"

I switched to Auto. My "+20" settings remained for the OPPO splash screen, but once again reduced itself to "0" upon PAL playback. Changing a variable brought it back to its customized level.

I left the unit on Auto, played a PAL disc again, and then stopped PAL playback. The OPPO splash screen remained "+20" despite the movie playing back as "0".

Turning off the unit in Auto/NTSC produced the same findings: OPPO splash correct, PAL playback incorrect.

Summation: every time you will be using a PAL disc, during playback, ensure that you change a single variable to bring the settings to their correct, customized level.

EDIT:

PAL to PAL Playback Amendment:

If you set the player to PAL, all information is remembered during that same power session. That is, if you set your settings and play a PAL disc in PAL mode, your settings will be the same. However, if you turn off your DVD unit, then turn it back on, your settings will be "lost", requiring you to change each variable twice (+/-). Changing DVI modes will also cause this problem.

Saturation is also effected by the "memory loss".

Maybe we should wake Gary and have him re-test PAL...HEH!

Sounds like you've got this under control... go Neuromancer!

GSB,

Only because you wouldn't wake up to me whispering sweet nothings into your ear.

Hi

I did some testing tonight regarding the HDMI-levels
I used the Peter Finzel PAL testdisc, which offers quite elaborate BTB&WTW-test.
I set the Oppo to 720p, PAL, Video 2 and connected it to my Sanyo Z4. My goal was to find out, at which values brightness and contrast got "out of hand", so I could not fine-tune them on my Sanyo anymore (you would most probably call that crushed whites, wouldn't you?) To be fully correct: my Sanyo was set to HDMI L2 mode (most probably, that is PC RGB, but I could not verify that, still)

If I raised contrast over +03, then I could not correct WTW anymore, same with BTB and values over -07. So these settings for me are the maximum, -08 and +04 would not work with me...

About the PAL-forgetting issue: I found out, that no matter whether AUTO or "dedicated" PAL setting, the Oppo ALWAYS forgets the settings. The whole situation is even MORE TRICKY.
The Oppo forgets the settings even, if you hit Stop and then resume the DVD in the tray, not only, if you insert a new one. So, everytime you Stop/resume a PAL DVD, you have to readjust the player.
Now, to add even more confusion: you have to readjust EACH SINGLE VALUE - brightness AND contrast. If you only readjust brightness, then the contrast value still is forgotten, even if the number in the display is still like you set it.
To me, this seems to be completely different from others peoples findings, including Neuromancer's. QUOTE:Changing a single setting (light sharpness) will bring everything back to normal. Or did I get that wrong - then I apoligize for the wrong quote.

I then tried, whether setting the Oppo to "dedicated" NTSC and playing a PAL disc changed the situation, but again: the Oppo forgets.

Then, I tried the same with a NTSC disc. The Oppo keeps the values in ALL settings: AUTO, NTSC and PAL.

So, whatever setting and whenever: playing a PAL-discs triggers the "forgetting issue".

Joerg

dvdr,

Actually, there is a very good reason why I only need to change one setting: I am using a different firmware *cough* In the one I have, one setting will revamp all settings.

In the 1022 (and most likely below) you will have to re-adjust all settings to get them to display properly. Most likely why this was never discovered by other users is due to the fact that most people tweak one setting (Brightness) and leave the rest of the settings at default. But, because you are trying PC RGB settings, which require the customization of both brightness and contrast, you have discovered that all variables need to be "restacked" during PAL playback.

I checked the AVForums (UK Site) and looked over comments about the PAL "memory loss" problem, and in all instances, the user had only tweaked a single variable.

EDIT:
It seems that the PAL issue is only effecting the Brightness and Contrast settings. I am rolling back to some previous betas as well as the 0628 to see what I come up with.

EDIT 2:
My assumption that previous users were only messing with one setting is correct. I rolled back to the 0628, and I had to change both Contrast/Brightness settings when slipping into a PAL movie.

GSB, thanks. What do you recommend as a good way for setting the upper white level limits? If I'm at +4 contrast on the oppo and +5 contrast on the AE700 (cinema 2 for those who need to know) I can still see all the steps on the greyscale ramp on DVE, which I take to mean they are not crushed--is this enough or are there other factors? Dave, as I write these posts, I include a bit more information than you may need, for the benefit of others, and to prevent confusion.

One of the DVE patterns, chapter 14, "Reverse Gray Ramps and Steps", has gray ramps and steps that extend above white and below black. Markers (3 vertical dots) are placed at video black (0%), 50%, and video white (100%).

To drive your display with true PC RGB (from DVD), assuming the display accepts PC RGB input, push your Oppo until it crushes everything below video black and above video white. That will map video black (digital 16 on the DVD) to digital 0 at the Oppo's output, and video white (digital 235 on the DVD) to digital 255 at the Oppo's output.

BUT... I prefer to adjust just shy of crushing everything above white, to prevent losing WTW info (like cloud detail) which may be recorded on certain DVD's. Of course, this is all a matter of personal taste. You are trading off theoretical video accuracy for macroblock suppression - a fine balancing act, involving trial and error.

To anyone else trying this: I cannot emphasize enough, the importance of recalibrating your DLP to use the full range of its available contrast ratio. Drop a brick on the gas pedal... squeeze out everything its got... there's no danger of blooming or burn-in, or whatever, just awesome results!

Summation: every time you will be using a PAL disc, during playback, ensure that you change a single variable to bring the settings to their correct, customized level.

Thanks for the testing Neuromancer. But I'd already tried this--dvdr is right it just does't work for our situation. If I change one variable (e.g., sharpness, contrast, truelife on/off) then only that variable changes it doesn't change everything. Also I'm pretty sure that the oppo is forgetting its audio delay settings. Almost immediatley after I downlaoded the latest firmware I noticed an increased lag (I posted about this) but compensated with my receiver. I only began to notice the memory loss when I experimented with GSB's anti-macroblocking enhance settings because they are so extreme (and also extremely effectve).

Thanks again. I've contacted oppo on this they gave me the same advice as you and I've also told them that it doesn't solve my situation (I'm not sure it would be that great even if it did!).

Dave

Dave, as I write these posts, I include a bit more information than you may need, for the benefit of others, and to prevent confusion.

One of the DVE patterns, chapter 14, "Reverse Gray Ramps and Steps", has gray ramps and steps that extend above white and below black. Markers (3 vertical dots) are placed at video black (0%), 50%, and video white (100%).

To drive your display with true PC RGB (from DVD), assuming the display accepts PC RGB input, push your Oppo until it crushes everything below video black and above video white. That will map video black (digital 16 on the DVD) to digital 0 at the Oppo's output, and video white (digital 235 on the DVD) to digital 255 at the Oppo's output.

BUT... I prefer to adjust just shy of crushing everything above white, to prevent losing WTW info (like cloud detail) which may be recorded on certain DVD's. Of course, this is all a matter of personal taste. You are trading off theoretical video accuracy for macroblock suppression - a fine balancing act, involving trial and error.

To anyone else trying this: I cannot emphasize enough, the importance of recalibrating your DLP to use the full range of its available contrast ratio. Drop a brick on the gas pedal... squeeze out everything its got... there's no danger of blooming or burn-in, or whatever, just awesome results!

Thanks, GSB, that's about where I am, just shy of crushing upper wtw levels.

By the way, now I've found that the oppo was forgetting my settings I have the explanation as to why your settings weren't getting the results on my torture test macroblock DVDs. Now if I reset to brightness -8 and con +2 then there is a dramatic improvement in macroblocking especially in the R2 Downfall, where half the screen was previously green and pink there is now just the tiniest bloom of pink in one spot, you would't notice it if you weren't looking for it. My conclusion: no enhance. The R1 Now, Voyager isn't quite so miraculous, but it's certainly tamed and as it's a black and white disk I can just take the colour out of the display device.

There is one other effect of upping contrst and lowering brightness: a noticeable improvement in pq: fleshtones, modelling and depth of field are all improved significantly. Thanks!

Dave

If I change one variable (e.g., sharpness, contrast, truelife on/off) then only that variable changes it doesn't change everything.

See my second posting.

Also I'm pretty sure that the oppo is forgetting its audio delay settings.

In my testing, only the Contrast and Brightness settings are effected by the memory loss. I will have to try audio-delay settings tomorrow morning, but I haven't had an issue with audio-syncing on a single movie, so I don't know how well I can test for this function losing its memory.

See my second posting.



In my testing, only the Contrast and Brightness settings are effected by the memory loss. I will have to try audio-delay settings tomorrow morning, but I haven't had an issue with audio-syncing on a single movie, so I don't know how well I can test for this function losing its memory.

Oops! In my excitment I missed your second posting, sorry. Even if you don't experience audio delay you should still be able to check if the oppo remembers the setting because you'll get audio lag if you increase it or vice-versa.

My own method of testing has been to start a PAL disc (oppo set to Auto/Video 2) then pause it immediatley, reset everything, con, bri, audio delay and play for a bit. Then I stop it and see what happens when I replay. The audio should be evident ,though I know that making changes on a playing DVD can be a problem in itself--that's why I pause it to make the change. The variables here are going to make certainty tough. You're experience will no doubt give you a better method.

I won't be able to check anything for a day or so but I'll be back on it soon enough.

Thanks for your work.

Dave

Edit: got this from oppo:

"The two problems are one and the same, but with a twist on our end. The
recommended "one variable" fix was something reported to us by UK
customers. However, what was failed to be reported by these customers
was that they changed only a single definition (brightness), therefore
allowing for a single variable change to bring back their settings to
their proper position. If two variables have been altered, then both
variables need to be changed in order to bring the unit into proper
video playback.

As far as audio-delay settings are concerned: we will have to do more
testing. In our limited testing with this problem, only the brightness
and contrast settings were changed. All other video aspects (TrueLife,
CCS, DNR) were not effected by the PAL playback. We will have to look
into audio-delay settings in future testing"

Prompt, certainly promising, but no solution. It's going to be at least a medium term problem I guess.

dgkp,

You will just have to wait for a firmware solution for this problem. OPPO has long been talking about a PAL firmware release, but have yet to make one.

OK, my KDSR-60XBR1 is being delivered next week, and my cable company (Cablevision) is giving me a cable card. I have the OPPO on the way too.

My receiver doesn't have an audio delay, but the OPPO does. Has anyone had to use it? Via HDMI from the OPPO, has anyone noticed lip sync problems (when the sound is sent into optical digital into the receiver)? I've heard of the lip-sync issue being more pronounced on the DLP sets than on non-DLP sets. Has anyone noticed it with their cable card on specific HD channels with their 50/60XBR1? Someone said they're sending their DD from the set out to their receiver, since they have a cable card and get DD off of cable. Any lip-synch experienced with this setup?

Thanks. :D

Hello everybody... firstable, excuse my bad enhlish.. i'm just a poor french

I've got the couple Projector Panasonic pta 700 and the Oppo. but i didn't manage to have pal cadence at 720.. All the settings are in Pal and the dvd is pal too, but my projector tell me that i'm in "750p60" . I would like to have 50hz and not 60hz for pal..

somebody has the same couple.. or has and idea??

In advance, thanx for answer;o)