Oppo DV971H Faroudja DCDi [Text View] - Page 20

ILJG

11-16-05, 01:26 PM

Also I'm pretty sure that the oppo is forgetting its audio delay settings. Almost immediatley after I downlaoded the latest firmware I noticed an increased lag (I posted about this) but compensated with my receiver. I only began to notice the memory loss when I experimented with GSB's anti-macroblocking enhance settings because they are so extreme (and also extremely effectve).

Dave

How noticeable is the lip-sync lag for you? You're saying you lost the settings, you mean, you were using OPPO's delay instead of the receiver's prior to losing these settings?

My OPPO's on the way from Amazon right now, and I downloaded the latest firmware for it, 971h-d-1022 and burnt it to CD, so when the unit gets here, I'll be ready to update it.

I've heard such differing accounts of the lip sync issue, I'm getting nervous. My cable card will deliver sound to my set, and then optical out to my receiver. My OPPO video will go in via 1080i HDMI, and OPPO audio out to coax digital to my receiver. Since my receiver doesn't provide delay capabilities, I'm really hoping it's not an issue. And if so (and I know I'll be really irate if there is a lip sync lag) I hope the OPPO's ability to delay is good enough. Any experieces with this?

JimPV

11-16-05, 02:53 PM

Neuromancer

11-16-05, 03:38 PM

Last time I checked, I was not getting correct PAL 720p output with the Oppo.

what it should look like
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left right

What I got with the Oppo
-----------------------------
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right | left

Now I'm not sure if that's an issue with my display not syncing to PAL at 720p or the Oppo itself. I'm using the Infocus 4805. 576p works fine.

There is a polarity synchronization problem with the OPDV971H and some PAL compatable display devices. This is often talked about on the UK forums (such as AVForums). This problem mainly effects Sony and LOEWES LCDs, the entire BenQ and some InFocus DLPs, and the UK brand of Panasonic plasmas.

As said before (I think here) OPPO has been meaning to make a PAL firmware release that would address the "memory loss" and synchronization issue, but have yet to do so. Rumor has it they are looking at the end of this month, but most likely it won't be out until "it's done."

Neuromancer

11-16-05, 03:40 PM

Anybody help me with this? What exactly am I seeing when I zoom in on a 4:3 DVD on my Oppo set on "wide/squeeze" (in 1080i mode)? Is it still 1080i? Why doesn't the PQ look as good as watching 4:3 material via component?

Without zooming, the picture on my Sony 36HS420 is "letterboxed" on all 4 sides ("postage-stamped" I think it's called--?). I can use either the zoom on the Oppo or on my Sony--would one or the other be better? Or should I just use component?

Any advice/info appreciated.

The OPDV971H does its zooming using the MTK mainboard. Because they are using the MTK board, and not the Faroudja chipset for zooming, video quality loss is horrendous. It is still 1080i, but the lines of resolution have been greatly reduced.

You should use the zoom on the Sony if at all possible.

GSB

11-16-05, 04:19 PM

How noticeable is the lip-sync lag for you? You're saying you lost the settings, you mean, you were using OPPO's delay instead of the receiver's prior to losing these settings?

I hope the OPPO's ability to delay is good enough. Any experieces with this?Losing delay settings occurs with PAL playback only (a future firmware release will fix it).

As for audio sync, it depends on your display. If your display adds any video lag to the mix, like many DLP's do, you might notice sync issues from time to time. If your display has little or no lag, you should be able to compensate to some degree with the OPPO's delay setting.

Grae

11-16-05, 05:12 PM

This might be a dumb question, but I was wondering if this player is physically capable of handling divx 6? Possibly with a new firmware update sometime in the future?

Neuromancer

11-16-05, 05:23 PM

This might be a dumb question, but I was wondering if this player is physically capable of handling divx 6? Possibly with a new firmware update sometime in the future?

Hardware: yes. Software: sometime. OPPO needs to wait for MTK to support it in hardware (ie. get it certified with DivX), before they are allowed to support it in software.

JimPV

11-16-05, 05:33 PM

The OPDV971H does its zooming using the MTK mainboard. Because they are using the MTK board, and not the Faroudja chipset for zooming, video quality loss is horrendous. It is still 1080i, but the lines of resolution have been greatly reduced.

You should use the zoom on the Sony if at all possible.
Thank you, Neuromancer. Exactly the info I needed!!

Neuromancer

11-16-05, 05:49 PM

JimPV,

Glad I can help.

shogo33

11-16-05, 08:14 PM

There is a polarity synchronization problem with the OPDV971H and some PAL compatable display devices. This is often talked about on the UK forums (such as AVForums). This problem mainly effects Sony and LOEWES LCDs, the entire BenQ and some InFocus DLPs, and the UK brand of Panasonic plasmas.

As said before (I think here) OPPO has been meaning to make a PAL firmware release that would address the "memory loss" and synchronization issue, but have yet to do so. Rumor has it they are looking at the end of this month, but most likely it won't be out until "it's done."

Well i have to add here as well on behalf of the Australian Oppo owners. Please include the NEC plasma displays, as there are quite a few Oppo owners here in Australia that currently experiencing this problem with PAL upscaling at 720p and 1080i.

Neuromancer

11-16-05, 08:21 PM

Shogo33,

Noted.

hoffho

11-16-05, 08:50 PM

Well i have to add here as well on behalf of the Australian Oppo owners. Please include the NEC plasma displays, as there are quite a few Oppo owners here in Australia that currently experiencing this problem with PAL upscaling at 720p and 1080i.
And also the HDMI port on the Fuji P40 (it works fine via the DVI port though).

Neuromancer

11-16-05, 10:14 PM

And if you want to continue to nit pick, the Sharp Aquos lines of LCDs will not show 720p when using the HDMI input.

Bytehoven

11-17-05, 02:14 AM

AVS member Ranster, sent me his OPPO 971H for some testing. I updated the firmware to D-1022 without incident, and hooked it up to my Sony HS-51 via DVI.

Let me begin by saying I find the video performance of the OPPO DVI output to be very impressive.

I have the OPPO setup:

brightness (-3)
contrast (0)
Sharpness OFF
Truelife OFF
Video 1

I used the AVIA test patterns Y/C, 200TL, Sharpness and a few others, which I have routinely used with other players. I also tested with SW III opening space fight scene, StarGate, and a couple of other films to see how the player reproduced some challenging scenes.

1st observation: The Y/C and verticle line edge noise on this player is awesome. It's the best I have seen short of the 5910, surpassing the 3910 and my old RP-91SDI/Iscan HD combination. Basically, I found there was no Y/C error and I could barely detect any false edge echo to the left side of verticle lines. In this regard, 720p and 1080i were the best, with 540p and 480p showing just a bit more line edge echo, but the 480p DVI output was vastly superior to my XP-30 component 480p.

The resolution test patterns showed better performance as I went from 480p to 540p, 720 & 1080i being the best although a little soft on the very top end as some other folks have mentioned. However, I hate EE and this very slight high end softness is a welcome alternative to many players which tend to lean toward a little EE and slight excessive sharpness which can not be turned off. Adjusting the OPPO sharpness to MEDIUM or HIGH brings back all of the EE junk for thoe who need the false sharpness fix.

In real world movie viewing, the HS-51 preferred the 720p output over the 1080i. I believe this is because the the HS-51 1080i deinterlacing does not do quite as good a job as it does handling the 720p input. So as a result, if I leave the HS-51 deinterlacer OFF, while the 1080i resolution is the best, the image has some excessive shudder particularly on verticle pans. If I turn the HS-51 to PROGRESSIVE or FILM deinterlacing mode, the shudder is eliminated but the resolution reproduction drops below 720p performance. All of this you might expect since the HS-51 is a native 720p projector, and does not have state of the art 1080i image management built in. This observation might be different on the new Sony Ruby, which is said to have an excellent deinterlacer/scaler built in.

I love the fact the OPPO has brightness and contrast controls which can be adjusted (minus). The (-3)(0) setup for Studio RGB levels is right on the money and perfect for the HS-51 which likes to see Studio RGB levels.

Every once in awhile, I thought I saw some "green" tiniting, but it was not the green shift we associate with other players with color space issues. Maybe there is a very specific lumance range which has a green shift, but I haven't found it yet.

I found the player does exhibit some jitter during playback, when you move from chapter to chapter. It takes 3-5 seconds for the video and sometimes audio to stabilize, but it does stabilze and remain solid there after.

I am at a loss to see where the video performance of the OPPO 971, is in any way inferior to 3910, which is the next to best player I have tried. The 5910 noise reduction makes for superior preformance with poorly mastered titles. But with a beautiful source, the OPPO presents a killer DVI 720p image. I do not have the HQV torture test disk, so I'm sure there are plenty of examples where the OPPO would show it's weakness. But for meat & potatoes DVDs, the OPPO is kicking butt.

I plan to experiment a little more with the Truelife ON feature, but it adds some false contrast & detail I don't prefer. However, maybe the Truelife noise reduction in some situations would be worth the effort.

I could not judge how well the OPPO reproduces color since I can not do a side by side. There might have be a slight advantage on the 3910 & 5910 in the feel of the color and contrast being just a little more dimensional, deeper, 3D as some folks say. But's it not as glaring an issue as the absence of verticle line edge echo offered on the OPPO, which I must simply rave about... I mean it's clean.

So, what's the bottom line? The OPPO 971 is glorious on the HS-51. For the money, it might just be the ticket unless one needs superior analog audio output. I have asked Ranster if the player is for sale, and if we can work out a price, I am inclined to put the XP-30 up for sale, and put the OPPO 971H in the rack.

I welcome some more experienced OPPO users and critics to help me understand what I might be missing. If there is anything about the OPPO I should take a closer look at, please tell me, because it's lookin' good to me.

Thanks Ranster for the chance to try this beast. I did not compare performance pre/post D-1022 software update, expect to say I would have hated having to leave Truelife ON.

cheers

RJ
...

Dragonsf

11-17-05, 02:39 AM

I'd like to know, why the audio latency is so different with each DVD.
On DD 2.0 to DD5.1 or WS or PAL or NTSC: always another delay time.
And thru Dolby Headphone and 5.1 Receiver is a difference too.
My TV is NTSC only, so PAL DVDs have to be converted to NTSC.

BTW:no problems with VCD or SVCD.

Neuromancer

11-17-05, 03:29 AM

Bytehoven,

Nice writeup. If Paul or Gary can't come up with some stuff to look at, I'll see how I feel in the morning ;)

dgkp

11-17-05, 04:47 AM

How noticeable is the lip-sync lag for you? You're saying you lost the settings, you mean, you were using OPPO's delay instead of the receiver's prior to losing these settings?

My OPPO's on the way from Amazon right now, and I downloaded the latest firmware for it, 971h-d-1022 and burnt it to CD, so when the unit gets here, I'll be ready to update it.

I've heard such differing accounts of the lip sync issue, I'm getting nervous. My cable card will deliver sound to my set, and then optical out to my receiver. My OPPO video will go in via 1080i HDMI, and OPPO audio out to coax digital to my receiver. Since my receiver doesn't provide delay capabilities, I'm really hoping it's not an issue. And if so (and I know I'll be really irate if there is a lip sync lag) I hope the OPPO's ability to delay is good enough. Any experieces with this?

I'm not yet sure what's happening (still testing). There is a problem, exclusively with PAL discs, that the oppo forgets its settings, definitely things like brightness and contrast, but possibly the audio delay setting too. If you don't play PAL discs this is not an issue. Though lip-sync can be a problem most users find the oppo's audio-delay (up to 50ms) covers it. If you have additional delay on your receiver then you might need to use it (I do). Some users (Neuromancer, for instance) have reported that they don't have sync problems. It appears to be display dependent with DLPs being the most problematic.

Dave

GSB

11-17-05, 05:39 AM

I am at a loss to see where the video performance of the OPPO 971, is in any way inferior to 3910, which is the next to best player I have tried. The 5910 noise reduction makes for superior preformance with poorly mastered titles. But with a beautiful source, the OPPO presents a killer DVI 720p image. I do not have the HQV torture test disk, so I'm sure there are plenty of examples where the OPPO would show it's weakness. But for meat & potatoes DVDs, the OPPO is kicking butt.

I plan to experiment a little more with the Truelife ON feature, but it adds some false contrast & detail I don't prefer. However, maybe the Truelife noise reduction in some situations would be worth the effort.

I welcome some more experience OPPO users and critics to help me understand what I might be missing. If there is anything about the OPPO I should take a closer look, please tell me, because it's lookin' good to me. Excellent report, Bytehoven. It reinforces our experience too.

You may be surprised at how well the OPPO handles the HQV test disk with the latest firmware. There are still a few little issues to fix, but we are very confident that they will be fixed in due time.

As for the Noise Reduction feature, the "LOW" setting really can help with poor source material. A little trick that you may not have found... NR (and CSS) can still do their work when Truelife is turned off... even though they appear disabled in the menu.

Gary

Alex solomon

11-17-05, 08:41 AM

As for the Noise Reduction feature, the "LOW" setting really can help with poor source material. A little trick that you may not have found... NR (and CSS) can still do their work when Truelife is turned off... even though they appear disabled in the menu.

Gary

GSB, is it better then to set NR to low, CSS to on and Trulife to off vs leaving Truelife to on and CSS and NR to off? I have IN SP4805. Thanks.

Bytehoven

11-17-05, 08:54 AM

Excellent report, Bytehoven. It reinforces our experience too.

You may be surprised at how well the OPPO handles the HQV test disk with the latest firmware. There are still a few little issues to fix, but we are very confident that they will be fixed in due time.

As for the Noise Reduction feature, the "LOW" setting really can help with poor source material. A little trick that you may not have found... NR (and CSS) can still do their work when Truelife is turned off... even though they appear disabled in the menu.

Gary

"Ah ha." he said, scratching his chin and nodding his head.

You know, when I was playing around with the Truelife section and I had the AVIA 200TVL pattern up, I thought I saw a slight difference when I left the Noise reduction on HIGH even though I had turned Truelife OFF. So I went back and dialed both CSS and NR to OFF.

Thanks for the tip as it will inspire me to play around with Turelife to see when a little NR is in order.

Can you comment on what type of noise the NR filter is designed to manage? I assume it a mixture of (3) basic NR types. May I also assume if this is the case, they set up the level of each NR type equally as the setting is increased?

Martin Butler

11-17-05, 10:24 AM

Great reading Bytehoven, thanks. I had the Denon 3910 and my subjective opinion is that the 3910 slightly edged out the OPPO in a close race. The Denon was just a bit clearer and somehow a bit more lifelike, why I don't know. With the new firmware, the OPPO is getting closer. Perhaps it's as simple as the Denon having a detachable power cord, but I doubt that. I have a couple of higher end power cords left over from a previous system. Sometimes (not always) I've noticed a subtle improvement in pq with an upgraded power cord. If I ventured a guess, I'd say the Denon had a more stable picture. Now, the difference in price makes the OPPO a great deal IMO, with one caveat, the audio sync issue is totally nonsense. It's a disqualifying factor if the audio falls out of sync, and I hope OPPO succeeds soon in their efforts to remedy this.

As for comparing audio, long story short, I think the OPPO is superior to the 3910, and I have over thirty years experience in professional audio. The OPPO does have a slightly grainy quality when compared to something like the Pioneer 9500, but the human voice reproduction of the OPPO is much more intelligible (an essential quality) than the Denon.

Paul Bigelow

11-17-05, 10:28 AM

Byte,

The NR works well with fast-moving "static-y looking" noise. With this noise "Low" seems to work best for me. In my view, while the higher settings do work better at eliminating the noise, there is just a bit too much penalty with fast movement to keep it at any higher level than "Low".

Paul

brinyhenry

11-17-05, 11:03 AM

After 2 months of using the Oppo I'm still having trouble concetrating on movies. The picture is so damn good that I'm distracted and spending more time marveling at that. This is a good thing! And all this for just $200.

Alex solomon

11-17-05, 11:09 AM

After 2 months of using the Oppo I'm still having trouble concetrating on movies. The picture is so damn good that I'm distracted and spending more time marveling at that.

I felt the same way when I watched Lost Season 1.

Andrea Manuti

11-17-05, 11:23 AM

Maybe you might be interested in this test, comparing Oppo, PixelMagic Plasma Enhancer and Samsung DVD941 with an HTPC...

http://www.htprojectors.com/htprojectorsENG/preload.asp?ID=253&PROD=2898

http://www.htprojectors.com/htprojectors/img/oppo/opposchemaEN_med.jpg

I hope you'll like the review!

Bytehoven

11-17-05, 11:25 AM

Great reading Bytehoven, thanks. I had the Denon 3910 and my subjective opinion is that the 3910 slightly edged out the OPPO in a close race. The Denon was just a bit clearer and somehow a bit more lifelike, why I don't know.

I think what you're talking about, is the difference you see/feel watching a film like Underworld. Dark with lots of intentional contrast from the cinematographer. But I'm wondering if this is some form of gamma massaging by Denon to better emulate HD performance, because it's HD performance that feels the same to me.

k-pax

11-17-05, 11:35 AM

Im thankful to you guys that maked this thread, afther a bit reading i bought the oppo 971h. (BBK in my country). Using it with ae700 and suberbit dvds look awsome!
Thanks :)

Bytehoven

11-17-05, 11:38 AM

Maybe you might be interested in this test, comparing Oppo, PixelMagic Plasma Enhancer and Samsung DVD941 with an HTPC...

http://www.htprojectors.com/htprojectorsENG/preload.asp?ID=253&PROD=2898

I hope you'll like the review!

Great review. It was great reading. I took your .jpg over into photoshop so I could scale it up and read the info. Thanks for the comparisons.

Andrea Manuti

11-17-05, 12:03 PM

Bytehoven,
just click on the "thumbnail" and you'll get a 1942 x 1371 image, there's no need to making such a difficult process! Thanks for your comments, it was a pleasure!

Bytehoven

11-17-05, 12:13 PM

Bytehoven,
just click on the "thumbnail" and you'll get a 1942 x 1371 image, there's no need to making such a difficult process! Thanks for your comments, itf was a pleasure!

Ahhhhhh... that's better. ;-) Thank You.

greeno

11-17-05, 12:23 PM

Bytehoven,
just click on the "thumbnail" and you'll get a 1942 x 1371 image, there's no need to making such a difficult process! Thanks for your comments, itf was a pleasure!
when I click the thumbnail, I get a very small windowed image that is not scalable.

LEVESQUE

11-17-05, 12:26 PM

Excellent report Byte.

I really like my Oppo player also. If they could just give us 480i over DVI it would be the full package...

For now, my Oppo is on my 2nd set and I'm using the new Pio 79AVi on my main projector (because of 480i over HDMI...). But after trying the Oppo on my main projector against the 79Avi, 59AVi, 3910 and SP1000, I totally agree with Bytehoven and the others. The Oppo is an incredible player for the price.

But 480i over DVI would be great...

Ja Phule

11-17-05, 12:40 PM

Bytehoven

11-17-05, 12:40 PM

Andrea Manuti

11-17-05, 01:07 PM

Interesting that the Oppo svideo outperformed the Oppo component overall. But looking at where it counts most, it seems component should still be better (color), imho. But really, who's not using DVI?

Ja Phule,
please read the entire review... you're jumping to conclusions only from the table, and this is not what I meant in the article... ;)

Neuromancer

11-17-05, 01:22 PM

GSB, is it better then to set NR to low, CSS to on and Trulife to off vs leaving Truelife to on and CSS and NR to off? I have IN SP4805. Thanks.

If you turn Off TrueLife, then CCS will be turned off as well. DNR will still work with TrueLife Off. I would recommend only turning DNR on if you need it, as to reduce instances of ghosting.

Ja Phule

11-17-05, 01:32 PM

Ja Phule,
please read the entire review... you're jumping to conclusions only from the table, and this is not what I meant in the article... ;)

:)
I actually read the full review after looking at the chart and making that post. :)

Other questions...
Is the external scaler really that much better than the faroudja in the yamaha though? And is that a fair comparison? Does the yamaha provide any tweaks for its faroudja processing? Would it have faired any better using svideo/component (if yamaha has those inputs).

Pete7874

11-17-05, 01:56 PM

Sorry if this has been covered earlier. I didn't notice it.

My receiver has the old Dolby Pro Logic (Denon AVR-2801), but it has 5.1 analog inputs. So, if I connect the Oppo to this receiver using these inputs, will I be able to have DPL II, since it looks like the Oppo has a built-in DPL II decoder?

Otherwise, if I just use the optical connection, my receiver will be doing the decoding and I'll end up with DPL for 2 channel sources?

Pete7874

11-17-05, 01:59 PM

But really, who's not using DVI?
I'm stuck using the composite video connection at the moment. :(

Neuromancer

11-17-05, 05:16 PM

OPPO is back in stock if anyone was waiting with baited breath.

guitarman

11-17-05, 07:02 PM

Ja Phule,
please read the entire review... you're jumping to conclusions only from the table, and this is not what I meant in the article... ;)

Andrea Hi,
Nice review and setup better than some of the PJ reviews. I should point out re the brightness setting to get reference black.

I used an Accupel HDG-3000 to establish reference black for the player in my setup RGB/video 720p, result is minus 3. I'll test out your PAL signal to see if it's any different.

GSB

11-17-05, 07:12 PM

Thanks for the tip as it will inspire me to play around with Turelife to see when a little NR is in order.

Can you comment on what type of noise the NR filter is designed to manage? I assume it a mixture of (3) basic NR types. May I also assume if this is the case, they set up the level of each NR type equally as the setting is increased? I don't know enough about the types of NR used in the OPPO.

I found it pretty effective on film grain and digital artifacts like noise in dim scenes and macroblocking recorded on the disk (NOT macroblock-enhance... you have to quell that first). It does not necessarily eliminate the artifacts completely, but it smooths them and suppresses their distracting movement.

Some examples:

Monsters, Inc. - The opening scene in the darkened room, and the beginning of chapter 11.
After I had successfully banished the macroblock-enhance problem, there was still some mild digital activity on the flat surfaces of doors and walls when the camera was panning. The OPPO's NR suppressed or eliminated that activity, and thus the distraction evaporated.

DVE - The NASA Montage, as the shuttle soars into the deep blue sky:
The digital noise in the sky (created by the Panasonic HD digital camera) looks similar to speckled film grain, and becomes distracting on a high-contrast display. The OPPO's NR helps smooth out that noise, so that it becomes less distracting.

Results will possibly vary, depending on display type.

GSB

11-17-05, 07:15 PM

GSB

11-17-05, 07:16 PM

Maybe you might be interested in this test, comparing Oppo, PixelMagic Plasma Enhancer and Samsung DVD941 with an HTPC...

I hope you'll like the review!Andrea, thanks for sharing this with us. Nicely done. But it seems that the link has just broken... I'm getting an error message.

Neuromancer

11-17-05, 07:37 PM

Andrea Manuti

11-17-05, 08:33 PM

:)
I actually read the full review after looking at the chart and making that post. :)

Other questions...
Is the external scaler really that much better than the faroudja in the yamaha though? And is that a fair comparison? Does the yamaha provide any tweaks for its faroudja processing? Would it have faired any better using svideo/component (if yamaha has those inputs).

I think the comparison was fair since I didn't alter any processsing parameter. The Yamaha has the 2300, the Oppo the 2310 + Mediatek, so some difference is obvious. How much? Enough to be visible to my eyes. But I think it has been apples to apples, i.e. composite vs. composite!

Andrea Manuti

11-17-05, 08:36 PM

Make sure that you change the settings while playing back the DVD, otherwise you will lose your settings.

Neuromancer,
what you report here doesn't appeat at all on my player (OP971-D-1022, release date: October 25, 2005, as reported within the review). It NEVER happened in my case.

Andrea Manuti

11-17-05, 08:45 PM

Andrea Hi,
Nice review and setup better than some of the PJ reviews. I should point out re the brightness setting to get reference black.

I used an Accupel HDG-3000 to establish reference black for the player in my setup RGB/video 720p, result is minus 3. I'll test out your PAL signal to see if it's any different.

Thanks, Tom, for your advice.
But I actually don't care too much which a reference level might be: as I mentioned a lot of times, I have these shots: this one with with BR = +02 with the Yamaha

http://www.htprojectors.com/htprojectors/img/oppo/DSC09604_b.jpg

and the other one with BR = -06, always Yamaha:

http://www.htprojectors.com/htprojectors/img/oppo/DSC09606_b.jpg

If you change projector and put the BenQ 8720 in place of the Yamaha, you'll get the same image coming from the 2nd shot with BR set as per the first one.

I need to calibrate the whole chain, not any single element.

As far as I have controls on the pj, I prefer going that way: otherwise I can alter the player. No problem in doing both, actual result is the only thing that matters!

Andrea Manuti

11-17-05, 08:46 PM

Andrea, thanks for sharing this with us. Nicely done. But it seems that the link has just broken... I'm getting an error message.

You're welcome! I tried again and checked, and it seems to be working just fine. In any case, just go the main page www.htprojectors.com and click on the Oppo review!

Andrea Manuti

11-17-05, 08:51 PM

I'm sorry I didn't read the entire 161 (!) pages of this thread (this is obviously my fault!).

I've read there are some claims about the Oppo not accepting PAL 576i through component.

This is not true, since Oppo perfectly handles PAL signals trough component interlaced input.

Once again, I don't know if this has been solved, but I guess these images might help in case some doubts might still be open. If not, just ignore them!

http://www.htprojectors.com/htprojectors/img/Oppo/DSC09638_b.jpg

http://www.htprojectors.com/htprojectors/img/Oppo/DSC09637_b.jpg

http://www.htprojectors.com/htprojectors/img/Oppo/DSC09636_b.jpg

http://www.htprojectors.com/htprojectors/img/Oppo/DSC09640_b.jpg

http://www.htprojectors.com/htprojectors/img/Oppo/DSC09642_b.jpg

http://www.htprojectors.com/htprojectors/img/Oppo/DSC09645_b.jpg

http://www.htprojectors.com/htprojectors/img/Oppo/DSC09646_b.jpg

Paul Bigelow

11-17-05, 09:09 PM

Great pictures, Andrea!

Paul

Neuromancer

11-17-05, 09:19 PM

Neuromancer,
what you report here doesn't appeat at all on my player (OP971-D-1022, release date: October 25, 2005, as reported within the review). It NEVER happened in my case.

Check the conversation dgkp and I had at the end of Page 158 through mid 159. There is a memory problem when using PAL discs. Unless you did not change a variable on the OPDV971H, you should be effected by the same "memory loss" error.

Bytehoven

11-18-05, 12:24 AM

OPPO is back in stock if anyone was waiting with baited breath.

Thanks for heads up.

The OPPO website has the 971H back in stock and says it's shipping with D-1111B software installed.

I just ordered one since Ranster wants his 971H back. ;-)

RJ
...

Bytehoven

11-18-05, 12:29 AM

Make sure that you change the settings while playing back the DVD, otherwise you will lose your settings.

And word is on the street that a minor firmware release brings the default brightness to correct studio levels ... and this time, it actually works.

I left an email thank you and an info request with OPPO when I ordered the 971H. I asked about the D-1111b software and what it changes.

I copy the thread on any info I get back.

Neuromancer

11-18-05, 02:07 AM

Thanks for heads up.

The OPPO website has the 971H back in stock and says it's shipping with D-1111B software installed.

I just ordered one since Ranster wants his 971H back. ;-)

RJ
...

Tell Ranster to purchase another one.

nepa

11-18-05, 03:43 AM

dgkp

11-18-05, 04:33 AM

Does anyone know if Optoma H78 accepts PC RGB?
I'm not going to even try to test those PC RGB settings (I'll just stay with the Studio RGB settings for now) until Oppo fixes the "memory loss" error (I live in the PAL-world). Hopefully it's not going to take too much time.

Does anyone else have Optoma H77/78/79 connected to Oppo? Having any problems? Or is the picture quality just perfecto?

I live in PAL-land too and use the PC RGB settings for now even though it's a pain resetting things--it's worth it for the pq transformation. You should at least check them out.

Dave

Bytehoven

11-18-05, 07:27 AM

I left an email thank you and an info request with OPPO when I ordered the 971H. I asked about the D-1111b software and what it changes.

I copy the thread on any info I get back.

OPPO has quickly responded to the D-1111b question. Here is there response.

*******

RJ,

The 1111B is designed to correctly bring the DVI brightness levels to
DVI Standard. The previous firmware missed its mark by several ramps,
and we are trying to rectify this with the new firmware.

Best Regards,

Customer Service

Bytehoven

11-18-05, 07:37 AM

Tell Ranster to purchase another one.

:-)

I tried to get him to let me keep the player, but he was just going to buy another.

I figure I was best served by having a NEW player, and I didn't mind going directly with OPPO, although I could have saved a few $$$ going with Amazon.

ILJG

11-18-05, 08:02 AM

I'm not yet sure what's happening (still testing). There is a problem, exclusively with PAL discs, that the oppo forgets its settings, definitely things like brightness and contrast, but possibly the audio delay setting too. If you don't play PAL discs this is not an issue. Though lip-sync can be a problem most users find the oppo's audio-delay (up to 50ms) covers it. If you have additional delay on your receiver then you might need to use it (I do). Some users (Neuromancer, for instance) have reported that they don't have sync problems. It appears to be display dependent with DLPs being the most problematic.

Dave

dgkb and GSB,

Thank you very much for your responses, just one more quick question from this hi-def newbie.

From what I've read about lip sync, quite a few people say it's often source related (and can be made worse with DLP sets). Some say even on the same DVD or hi-def channel, the lag can vary. If there's no or little lag on some sections of a DVD, but a noticeable lag on other parts of that same DVD, how could a fixed delay setting possibly work? If you delay for up to 50 ms for the sections that do lag, won't you be throwing off the rest of the sections that don't have a lag? Who'd want to constantly change this during playback of a DVD and who'd want to change it for different DVD's?

Am I just not properly understanding this issue?

Thanks again, for all your help. You guys rock. ----> http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/misc/musicband.gif

dgkp

11-18-05, 09:27 AM

dgkb and GSB,

Thank you very much for your responses, just one more quick question from this hi-def newbie.

From what I've read about lip sync, quite a few people say it's often source related (and can be made worse with DLP sets). Some say even on the same DVD or hi-def channel, the lag can vary. If there's no or little lag on some sections of a DVD, but a noticeable lag on other parts of that same DVD, how could a fixed delay setting possibly work? If you delay for up to 50 ms for the sections that do lag, won't you be throwing off the rest of the sections that don't have a lag? Who'd want to constantly change this during playback of a DVD and who'd want to change it for different DVD's?

Am I just not properly understanding this issue?

Thanks again, for all your help. You guys rock. ----> http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/misc/musicband.gif

There's plenty on this above. But, to be brief, there are (at least) two types of audio lag. There a constant lag which presumably happens between the player and the display unit, which can be fixed by the oppo's/your receiver's delay. Then there the "drift lag" (for want of a better expression) which happens when, as I understand it (glad to be corrected)-- the faroudja chip takes too long processing things and the video gets behind. This is more difficult to account for and is not something I've ever realy noticed. Some people have found that briefly pausing the video and then restarting it gets rid of this drift lag.

Also I think an awful lot of this is caused by poorly authored discs and, moreover, the sheer amount of dubbing done in films, and not always done well. I reckon this is not noticable in the cinema because the image is so big and on CRT's because the image is too small, but large flat screens and pjs really suffer. Well, maybe that not such a sound teory after all...?

Also, there is some evidence to suggest that if audio precedes video then we notice it alot more than if video precedes audio. We are attuned to accept a lag in that direction. Sounds plausible enough. So we want more delay, if possible.

Dave

Paul Bigelow

11-18-05, 09:31 AM

Pick a setting that seems to work most often and leave it -- evaluate the setting over time and do not access the settings menu while evaluating.

Continuously accessing the settings menu to adjust for lip sync will introduce its own lip sync problem so it will be a constantly moving target.

Paul

Neuromancer

11-18-05, 12:40 PM

And remember that once you have chosen an Audio Delay, that you stop then resume DVD playback. Generally, I find that 20~30ms works the best for all material I have thrown at the OPDV971H.

Bud-man

11-18-05, 01:10 PM

Neuromancer

11-18-05, 01:17 PM

Bud-man,

Andrea Manuti was proving that PAL 576i worked through component. Several users in the past claimed that component based PAL signals did not display correctly out of the OPDV971H.

ILJG

11-18-05, 01:21 PM

And remember that once you have chosen an Audio Delay, that you stop then resume DVD playback. Generally, I find that 20~30ms works the best for all material I have thrown at the OPDV971H.

So you have seen the issue? Above it looks like someone alluded to the fact that you haven't seen the lip sync issue. (Sorry, I don't mean to put words in anyone's mouth, I just want to be sure I'm understanding what's posted.) Have you not seen the "floating" lag? Also, before you had set the OPPO to 20-30ms delay, you did see the lag?

Thanks again. All this experience you guys are sharing is wonderful! :D

Martin Butler

11-18-05, 01:39 PM

Dave, it's not the DVD auuthoring process at fault here. Every DVD player I've ever owned (at least a dozen) stayed in sync. There's no valid excuse for the OPPO's sync issue, they must fix it.

Pete7874

11-18-05, 01:56 PM

In my case, it looks like my OPPO could use an "Audio Advance" feature because even with "Audio delay" set at 0, on most DVDs I still get a feeling that actors' mouths start moving before their voices are heard, and increasing "Audio delay" just makes things worse.

I'm using optical audio out (to a Denon AVR-2801) and composite video out. I don't think it's an issue with the receiver as I had an old Sony DVD player before and never noticed any such lip-syncing problems. BTW, I'm running the Oct. 25 firmware version on the OPPO.

Neuromancer

11-18-05, 02:11 PM

ILJG,

In my current setup (Optoma H78) I do not have a syncing issues what so ever (and I hope to keep it that way). However, two of my friends also bought the OPDV971H. For both of them we did some marathon testing, and found that on my friends Samsung DLP, an audio delay of 30ms was needed for most discs, and on my other friends Panasonic, we used a general 20ms audio delay because he experienced some syncing on particular DVDs.

In general, setting a 20~30 delay will not effect normal playback. So even if a film played back flawlessly before the change, they still playback flawlessly with the change. Granted, the video should now be ahead of the audio, but to our eyes and ears, we don't perceive it as much as audio preceeding video.

psraj

11-18-05, 02:22 PM

Here is what I got from Opp on F/W 1111B release;

This firmware will be made available shortly for internet consumption.
We are still doing some more testing on it. The firmware only
addresses the brightness setting by altering the default to comply with DVI standard. No other changes were made.

The brightness was artificailly increased to +5 in theory only (in f/w 1022). In reality, the brightness become +8. Therefore, in order to get DVI Studio standard, a -3 brightness had to be used. We recently went back to the brightness error and corrected it, to properly output a DVI Studio standard signal without any internal tweaking. This simple change will greatly enhance the out-of-box experience for all end users.

Alex solomon

11-18-05, 03:08 PM

Can someone educate me here, Why is it so difficult for Oppo to correct the lip sync issue? Even the cheap players don't have this problem let alone the mid or higher priced players.

Neuromancer

11-18-05, 03:28 PM

Can someone educate me here, Why is it so difficult for Oppo to correct the lip sync issue? Even the cheap players don't have this problem let alone the mid or higher priced players.

The Audio-sync problem introduced by the combination of OPDV971H and certain displays is caused by cumulative video delay. In order to produce the best possible video quality, when the Faroudja chip in the DVD player performs de-interlacing and scaling, it may need to buffer some video frames to do motion analysis. This introduces a slight delay to the video. Usually this delay is not noticeable by the viewers. Certain displays also buffer video frames for many reasons – to scale up the 720p or 1080i video to the display’s native pixel resolution, or to process the video in order to reduce the “rainbow effect” on some DLP displays, or even to do motion analysis and adaptation (duplicated effort but cannot be turned off). The buffering by displays introduces another video delay. Since normally audio is not delayed, the cumulative video delay becomes noticeable and causes the Audio-sync problem. The problem happens rarely and randomly because the time it takes the DVD player and the display to process the video depends on the complexity of the video scene.

Then you get into the quagmire introduced by audio-sync errors inherent to source material (http://www.pixelinstruments.tv/5ProfesArticles/Lip%20Sync%20Errors%20-%20A%20Short%20Tutorial.pdf), and you see the predicament that OPPO is in.

Currently, they do not have a delay control system that can't handle large amount of delay. They are working on increasing the delay (120ms+). Another way to handle this is to change the way in which the buffer is used. For example, instead of a variable buffer, they could use a constant buffer, thus reducing audio-syncing errors that could occur when the video buffer is used extrenously.

EDIT:
Larger companies have reduced the amount of lipsyncing issues by working directly with Faroudja and other content/display providers. OPPO doesn't have this kind of 1:1 communication, and rely pretty much on the seat-of-their-pants exploration and implimentation.

Alex solomon

11-18-05, 03:37 PM

THX, Neuromancer.

Martin Butler

11-18-05, 04:10 PM

Pete7874

11-18-05, 05:12 PM

Alex solomon

11-18-05, 05:20 PM

Yeah, for $200, I must say I'm not impressed with this box. Apart from the lip-sync issue, the fit-and-finish quality is pretty bad. I mean, the $30 DVD players sold at BB and CC have a better finish. And the black remote is a joke - I get dizzy looking at the symbols under the clear-plastic buttons, and finding the buttons is not in the least bit intuitive. The GUI looks like it was designed by a 10 year old in 10 minutes.

I guess I'm gonna get flamed for writing this, but oh well... that's my opinion. Not having an HDTV, I'm probably missing out on the best this player has to offer (DVI output) and just stuck with all the worst.

Hey, you are just expressing your opinion. That's what forums are all about. I love this player to death, even with the lip sync, the cheesy tray and the bad remote.

Neuromancer

11-18-05, 05:49 PM

PAL Memory Loss Amendment:

If you set the player to PAL, all information is remembered during that power session. That is, if you set your settings and play a PAL disc in PAL mode, your settings will be the same. However, if you turn off your DVD unit, then turn it back on, your settings will be "lost", requiring you to change each variable twice (+/-). Changing DVI modes will also cause this problem.

Additionaly, add Saturation to the list of variables which are lost. I will try Audio Delay when I have the chance to use the unit on a speaker system (I am using a monitor right now)

guitarman

11-18-05, 05:50 PM

Thanks, Tom, for your advice.
But I actually don't care too much which a reference level might be: as I mentioned a lot of times, I have these shots: this one with with BR = +02 with the Yamaha

http://www.htprojectors.com/htprojectors/img/oppo/DSC09604_b.jpg

and the other one with BR = -06, always Yamaha:

http://www.htprojectors.com/htprojectors/img/oppo/DSC09606_b.jpg

If you change projector and put the BenQ 8720 in place of the Yamaha, you'll get the same image coming from the 2nd shot with BR set as per the first one.

I need to calibrate the whole chain, not any single element.

As far as I have controls on the pj, I prefer going that way: otherwise I can alter the player. No problem in doing both, actual result is the only thing that matters!

True we're all using the displays to final tune the black level, that's if the brightness control is available which it s/b, not on the NEC HT1000 though. The -3 refefence number is just a starting point, puts the Oppo at reference black the rest we do with the displays.

Neuromancer

11-18-05, 05:56 PM

Pete7874, That's EXACTLY my problem as well.. I hear the voice AFTER the lips move not before.

This should not occur, even on the OPDV971H. Are you sure your receiver does not have an automatic delay, and that you have properly programmed speaker distance?

Bytehoven

11-18-05, 05:59 PM

Yeah, for $200, I must say I'm not impressed with this box. Apart from the lip-sync issue, the fit-and-finish quality is pretty bad. I mean, the $30 DVD players sold at BB and CC have a better finish. And the black remote is a joke - I get dizzy looking at the symbols under the clear-plastic buttons, and finding the buttons is not in the least bit intuitive. The GUI looks like it was designed by a 10 year old in 10 minutes.

I guess I'm gonna get flamed for writing this, but oh well... that's my opinion. Not having an HDTV, I'm probably missing out on the best this player has to offer (DVI output) and just stuck with all the worst.

I agree the remote and GUI could use some help, but that's surface aesthetics which in no way affect the performance on the big screen.

Without a HD display & DVI, there is no reason to own the OPPO as there are better alternatives for 480i/480p component or S-video.

However, once your talking DVI on a quality display, the OPPO makes a bold statement for $200 and holds it's own with the more expensive players I have bought & sold.

guitarman

11-18-05, 06:03 PM

Does anyone know if Optoma H78 accepts PC RGB?
I'm not going to even try to test those PC RGB settings (I'll just stay with the Studio RGB settings for now) until Oppo fixes the "memory loss" error (I live in the PAL-world). Hopefully it's not going to take too much time.

Does anyone else have Optoma H77/78/79 connected to Oppo? Having any problems? Or is the picture quality just perfecto?

You can set the H78 to PC brightness level 0-255 by hitting the re-synce button just after choosing DVI. But the majority of us are having a color shift problem when trying to grayscale tune the PC signal. Therefore we have to use video brightness level 16-235 which is what you get when hitting the DVI button.

Or DVI= 16-235 and DVI + Re-sync + 0-255.

Andrea Manuti

11-18-05, 06:54 PM

Bud-man,

Andrea Manuti was proving that PAL 576i worked through component. Several users in the past claimed that component based PAL signals did not display correctly out of the OPDV971H.

Thanks, Neuromancer, that was exactly my point... Bud-man, if you want to read something about DVI, just read the review!

Again, to Neuromancer: the player option is set to AUTO, but nothing like what you say has ever happened... Am I so lucky?

GSB

11-18-05, 07:03 PM

Pete7874, That's EXACTLY my problem as well.. I hear the voice AFTER the lips move not before.
I don't need more audio delay, my receiver can do that. Also, I believe that watching out of sync, even if it's not noticeable must have a detrimental effect on a long term (2 hours) experience. Movies probably don't suspend reality as easily being out of sync. Martin Butler and Pete7874, if what you are saying is true, your lip-sync problem has nothing to do with the OPPO. The Faroudja chip always buffers video frames, therefore the video will always lag behind the audio. It is impossible for the audio to lag, unless you have other audio delays somewhere in the chain (or the DVD soundtrack is out of sync).

To check your audio sync properly, set the OPPO's delay to 0ms, set your receiver's delay to 0ms, and correctly set your receiver's speaker distances. Then use DVE's "A/V Timing Clock". The audio pop is timed to occur as the hand sweeps by the 12 o'clock position. The OPPO causes the pop to be heard at about the 11 o'clock position, indicating that the video is slightly BEHIND the audio. (If you guys were right, the pop would occur after 12 o'clock).

Martin Butler

11-18-05, 07:03 PM

Pete, there's little point in owning the OPPO if you're not using DVI, but if you are, it's amazingly close to the best I've seen at 1/5 the cost. I 'd look for a DVD player with Faroudja processing from the component out for your gear. Good luck.

Neuromancer

11-18-05, 07:15 PM

Thanks, Neuromancer, that was exactly my point... Bud-man, if you want to read something about DVI, just read the review!

Again, to Neuromancer: the player option is set to AUTO, but nothing like what you say has ever happened... Am I so lucky?

You are very lucky then. If you have changed the Brightness, Contrast, or Saturation controls on the OPDV971H, they should be "lost" everytime you begin PAL playback. All my testing on the 1022 firmware (also confirmed by dgkp and members of AVForums) confirm this.

AndrewB.

11-18-05, 08:03 PM

You are very lucky then. If you have changed the Brightness, Contrast, or Saturation controls on the OPDV971H, they should be "lost" everytime you begin PAL playback. All my testing on the 1022 firmware (also confirmed by dgkp and members of AVForums) confirm this.

Well I am lucky too then. I have the 1022 firmware and mainly play PAL DVDs. My brightness is set to -3 and never resets itself to 0 or to anything else. My PAL/NTSC setting in the setup menu is "Auto".

Andrew

Neuromancer

11-18-05, 08:26 PM

AndrewB. -

The "setting" within the Setup menu will still show "-3", but the end visual result will look like "0".

Try this: adjust the saturation to all the way to -9 while you are at the OPPO splash screen. Now insert (or play) a PAL disc. You should notice that your previous "black and white" image is now back to its full color glory.
Go back into the Setup and you will see that the settings are correct. However, if you adjust saturation +/-, you instantly be brought back to the previous "black and white" image you bagan with.

SirJohnFalstaff

11-18-05, 09:28 PM

I need to buy a DVI to HDMI cable for use with my Panasonic 900 and Oppo. Can I use any cable such as Monster, or will I have to get one directly from Oppo? Basically, does Oppo use specialty DVI cables that you can get only from them like certain companies--the InFocus M1 for example--or will any DVI cable work?

Neuromancer

11-18-05, 09:28 PM

Stacy Huff

11-18-05, 10:32 PM

I got my DVI-HDMI cable from monoprice.com and paid about $8. It works fine.

Martin Butler

11-18-05, 11:59 PM

Thanks GSB, I missed your post when I responded previously. I'll check it all as you suggested ASAP. I'd forgotten that DVE has an audio sync section.

dgkp

11-19-05, 05:34 AM

Andrea Manuti

11-19-05, 06:43 AM

You are very lucky then. If you have changed the Brightness, Contrast, or Saturation controls on the OPDV971H, they should be "lost" everytime you begin PAL playback. All my testing on the 1022 firmware (also confirmed by dgkp and members of AVForums) confirm this.

I knew I was lucky, I married the woman of my dreams... :p !
I've changed the controls a lot of time to take measures with different projectors and setups, Neuromancer, made visual observations... but nothing has changed, believe me!

ILJG

11-19-05, 07:55 AM

dgkp and Neuromancer, thanks for that great information! :cool:

dgkp

11-19-05, 08:56 AM

I knew I was lucky, I married the woman of my dreams... :p !
I've changed the controls a lot of time to take measures with different projectors and setups, Neuromancer, made visual observations... but nothing has changed, believe me!

Andrea, I can see you're smiling. It's very strange--maybe heartening--that you haven't noticed anything with respect to the PAL memory loss issue. Could you say how you tested your unit so we can make sure we are talking about the same issue?

Did you try Neuromancer's saturation test? You can do the same with brightness and the difference should show.

I'm going to sound sceptical now, but small changes on the oppo probably wouldn't make much difference if you are calibrating the display device as well (I thought my oppo was at brightness -3 for weeks, and it only was for NTSC discs--I calibrated on an a Avia NTSC disc and watched PALs thinking I was all right! How dumb am I?).

Dave

dvdr

11-19-05, 08:58 AM

I posted this on the AE700 thread but that seems to have all but died since the AE900 came out.

When running the oppo at 720p, Video 2 with a PAL disc the AE700 shows 750/60p when I would expect 750/50p to reflect the 2:2 cadence. Is the the AE700 taking the 2:2 cadence and changing it to 3:2 pulldown, or is it just an error on the pj? Or, is it anything else? Anybody with an AE700/oppo combination able to replicate this?

Thanks,

Dave

Hi Dave

I do not have the AE700, but a Sanyo Z4, which never showed any problems in the "information window" - when it's supposed to be 720p/50 (PAL), then it is 720/50. I would strongly suggest to doublecheck the settings of the Oppo: is it set to PAL or AUTO in the setup-menue (last tab on the right)? Mine did default to NTSC one time without me noticing it and put out 720/60 with a PAL disc (that is the great thing about Oppo: if you WANT it to REALLY convert PAL->NTSC, it can do that and not do just a "fake" conversion like so many other multiregion players).
So, mind going over your settings again? If they are right, then your AE700 does not recognize the signal correctly, which is also hard to imagine...
Did you upgrade to the latest firmware as well?

Joerg

Andrea Manuti

11-19-05, 09:36 AM

Andrea, I can see you're smiling. It's very strange--maybe heartening--that you haven't noticed anything with respect to the PAL memory loss issue. Could you say how you tested your unit so we can make sure we are talking about the same issue?

Did you try Neuromancer's saturation test? You can do the same with brightness and the difference should show.

I'm going to sound sceptical now, but small changes on the oppo probably wouldn't make much difference if you are calibrating the display device as well (I thought my oppo was at brightness -3 for weeks, and it only was for NTSC discs--I calibrated on an a Avia NTSC disc and watched PALs thinking I was all right! How dumb am I?).

Dave

Dave,
no problem at all in answering. For my measurements I don't use test discs, since results are subjective (I could say I'm really sure I've seen black but I could be tired, so...): I use a spectroradiometer to make calibrations. You can find the results in the Yamaha DPX-1100 test that I used combined with the Oppo.

In any case, I've been going several times back and forth with BR and CR settings since I've seen from the first moment the level appeared to be incorrect. But, as I mentioned before, if you try with the BenQ 8720 this is simply NOT true: this has a different basic setting with respect to BR. And this is why I don't think a "within the specs" level could be the universal solution.

We have to calibrate the whole chain, and I need to take into account every single part of it. I'm going to publish in the next weeks an article referred to actual conditions, with measures and shots as usual, to show how much ambient conditions can affect real values.

In the end, I don't think a player is the proper way to calibrate a system: I normally use the projector, and when I had to do it with the Projection Design 1080 DLP, since it had no SW available, I had to do it through the graphic card. And the result wasn't steady...

andersls

11-19-05, 10:35 AM

Hello Forum...I am having problems with my BBK/OPPO. When watching a music dvd(pal) through the dvi(540p) on my plasma...there is marked "juttering" in the lower part of the picture! (480p/720p dont give any picture at all) When I use the comp. outputs(480i), there is NO juttering! The plasma is an LG42pz70(852x480). What can this be? Pal cadence problems? Any suggestions/help would be good!

Anders.

dgkp

11-19-05, 10:57 AM

Hi Dave

I do not have the AE700, but a Sanyo Z4, which never showed any problems in the "information window" - when it's supposed to be 720p/50 (PAL), then it is 720/50. I would strongly suggest to doublecheck the settings of the Oppo: is it set to PAL or AUTO in the setup-menue (last tab on the right)? Mine did default to NTSC one time without me noticing it and put out 720/60 with a PAL disc (that is the great thing about Oppo: if you WANT it to REALLY convert PAL->NTSC, it can do that and not do just a "fake" conversion like so many other multiregion players).
So, mind going over your settings again? If they are right, then your AE700 does not recognize the signal correctly, which is also hard to imagine...
Did you upgrade to the latest firmware as well?

Joerg

Thanks Jeorg. I should have been a bit more thorough in my question. The oppo is set to Auto and Video 2 using the latest firmware but the ae700 still shows 750/60p when I play a PAL disc. It's something I noticed months ago (it's all double checked) but never questioned until someone else mentioned it recently in this or the other oppo thread.

Dave

ADDITION

I've been testing whether the audio delay is forgotten as part of the PAL memory loss problem. It's not totally conclusive because lyp-sync, which is the thing I tested, is so problematic. But I no longer think that audio delay is forgotten, or at least I can't find any conditions which show any obvious change in delay when a PAL disc is stopped or changed.

eieio

11-19-05, 12:20 PM

Gentlemen:

my Oppo is arriving this coming week ;) while i'm excited about its video prowess, being a long time audiophile, i'm interested in knowing if the unit's CD audio-only capabilities are acceptable, good, very good, or excellent?

FYI: my current CD player is a 5-7 year old Sonic Frontiers with the Pacific Microsonics decoder chip and a tube output stage (Sonic Frontiers is from Canada and known for their tube electronics).

Thank you in advance!

dvdr

11-19-05, 01:03 PM

Thanks Jeorg. I should have been a bit more thorough in my question. The oppo is set to Auto and Video 2 using the latest firmware but the ae700 still shows 750/60p when I play a PAL disc. It's something I noticed months ago (it's all double checked) but never questioned until someone else mentioned it recently in this or the other oppo thread.
Dave
OK, some questions again:
- you are using DVI/HDMI, right? (Just was not sure)
- Could you check the firmware version from within the player - just to make sure, that your Oppo "accepted" the upgrade...

Now, a few things to try out:

Start the Oppo, don't insert a disc. Go into setup, last tab, choose PAL instead of Auto.
Insert a PAL DVD. What's the output?

Then: stop the Oppo, push the Stop button on the remote TWO TIMES. Don't eject the disc! Then go into setup, last tab, choose AUTO, then start the DVD again. What's the output?

Then: Hit Stop Twice again. Try to change the values with the P/N button on the remote without going to the setup. First try PAL, later do the same with AUTO. Does that change anything in the output?

Joerg

AndrewB.

11-19-05, 06:33 PM

Josh Z

11-19-05, 10:45 PM

my Oppo is arriving this coming week ;) while i'm excited about its video prowess, being a long time audiophile, i'm interested in knowing if the unit's CD audio-only capabilities are acceptable, good, very good, or excellent?

FYI: my current CD player is a 5-7 year old Sonic Frontiers with the Pacific Microsonics decoder chip and a tube output stage (Sonic Frontiers is from Canada and known for their tube electronics).

Your question is a can of worms that this thread really doesn't need opened again.

Long story short: If you are an audiophile who honestly believes that two DVD players can really have a difference in sound over the digital connection despite the exact same bits being transmitted from disc to receiver in each case, you should continue to listen to your music CDs using the dedicated CD transport that you're currently happy with, and just watch movies on the DVD player.

puryfier

11-20-05, 01:03 AM

OK, some questions again:
- you are using DVI/HDMI, right? (Just was not sure)
- Could you check the firmware version from within the player - just to make sure, that your Oppo "accepted" the upgrade...

Now, a few things to try out:

Start the Oppo, don't insert a disc. Go into setup, last tab, choose PAL instead of Auto.
Insert a PAL DVD. What's the output?

Then: stop the Oppo, push the Stop button on the remote TWO TIMES. Don't eject the disc! Then go into setup, last tab, choose AUTO, then start the DVD again. What's the output?

Then: Hit Stop Twice again. Try to change the values with the P/N button on the remote without going to the setup. First try PAL, later do the same with AUTO. Does that change anything in the output?

Joerg

I own BBK and I only get 720P/60 despite what ever settings I use. Is this somekind of bug in oppo/BBK or is it the Panasonic 900? Running latest Oppo firmware, video 2 and DVI/HDMI to Panasonic 900.

Noticed something when I pushed P/N button. In setup I have chosen auto but as I push P/N button the screen doesnt flash When I push it first time. It says NTSC now, does this mean that ntsc is on when it is on auto? Screen does flash when push button second time and I choose pal. Same thing happens when I change the output via setup, choosing pal it flashes but auto and ntsc doesn´t.

Does this mean I dont get the cadence fix???

Neuromancer

11-20-05, 03:41 AM

I own BBK and I only get 720P/60 despite what ever settings I use. Is this somekind of bug in oppo/BBK or is it the Panasonic 900? Running latest Oppo firmware, video 2 and DVI/HDMI to Panasonic 900.

Noticed something when I pushed P/N button. In setup I have chosen auto but as I push P/N button the screen doesnt flash When I push it first time.

When you press the P/N button the first time when in AUTO it goes to NTSC. Press it again and you go into PAL. Press it again and you go into AUTO. AUTO->NTSC->Auto.

It says NTSC now, does this mean that ntsc is on when it is on auto?

Yes, when in AUTO, it is defaulted to NTSC unless a PAL disc is placed in the unit.

Screen does flash when push button second time and I choose pal. Same thing happens when I change the output via setup, choosing pal it flashes but auto and ntsc doesn´t.

Does this mean I dont get the cadence fix???

There should be no flashing when using AUTO and NTSC because they are both the same signal. The only time you should see flashing is when you switch to PAL (either manually, or when a PAL disc is played back in AUTO mode).

If the screen does not switch, then you are not getting the 2:2 Cadence (read: You are not playing back in PAL). If I recall, 2:2 does not work when doing PAL->NTSC conversion, though I could be wrong. I will have to test this later.

puryfier

11-20-05, 11:04 AM

When you press the P/N button the first time when in AUTO it goes to NTSC. Press it again and you go into PAL. Press it again and you go into AUTO. AUTO->NTSC->Auto.

Yes, when in AUTO, it is defaulted to NTSC unless a PAL disc is placed in the unit.

There should be no flashing when using AUTO and NTSC because they are both the same signal. The only time you should see flashing is when you switch to PAL (either manually, or when a PAL disc is played back in AUTO mode).

If the screen does not switch, then you are not getting the 2:2 Cadence (read: You are not playing back in PAL). If I recall, 2:2 does not work when doing PAL->NTSC conversion, though I could be wrong. I will have to test this later.

Thanks for the reply. But how come Pana 900 still displays 720/60p, shouldnt it be 50 when watching PAL movies or do I understand this incorrectly? Tried to change every setting but always it says 60.

Tried a little test, I put oppo on auto in the menu and also just to make sure doublechecked with P/N that oppo is in auto-mode. Then inserted PAL disk, screen does indeed flash (NTSC->PAL) but still pana displays 60 and I get visual tearing. Tried NTSC mode, picture is less sharp but no tearing. Hopefully next firmware will fix this tearing

Martin Butler

11-20-05, 11:11 AM

eieio, IMO, the OPPO definitely sounds better than my old Denon 3910. It doesn't best the Pioneer 9500 I had, but it's impressive when the price is considered. The main quality that I've noticed about the OPPO is intelligibility. Words sung and spoken are easier to understand, and that's paramount when watching movies. An audiophile might say the high end is a little shrill, but it's quite tolerable as a CD source.

dgkp

11-20-05, 11:18 AM

OK, some questions again:
- you are using DVI/HDMI, right? (Just was not sure)
- Could you check the firmware version from within the player - just to make sure, that your Oppo "accepted" the upgrade...

Now, a few things to try out:

Start the Oppo, don't insert a disc. Go into setup, last tab, choose PAL instead of Auto.
Insert a PAL DVD. What's the output?

Then: stop the Oppo, push the Stop button on the remote TWO TIMES. Don't eject the disc! Then go into setup, last tab, choose AUTO, then start the DVD again. What's the output?

Then: Hit Stop Twice again. Try to change the values with the P/N button on the remote without going to the setup. First try PAL, later do the same with AUTO. Does that change anything in the output?

Joerg

Yes I have the latest firmware and I've reflashed it. Also I'm using DVI-HDMI. Tried all your tests, which sounded sensible. It doesn't seem to make any difference whether I'm in PAL or Auto it still comes up at 755/60. I then tested all the other DVI settings and they also indecated 60hz. I think this is probably just an error in the AE700 graphics because according to the Operating Instructions it has no problem handling 50hz at all scales. I'm still hoping someone on the AE700 thread will pick this up. puryfier is also seeing this on a 900 to I may post ther too.

Dave

k-pax

11-20-05, 12:32 PM

Yes I have the latest firmware and I've reflashed it. Also I'm using DVI-HDMI. Tried all your tests, which sounded sensible. It doesn't seem to make any difference whether I'm in PAL or Auto it still comes up at 755/60. I then tested all the other DVI settings and they also indecated 60hz. I think this is probably just an error in the AE700 graphics because according to the Operating Instructions it has no problem handling 50hz at all scales. I'm still hoping someone on the AE700 thread will pick this up. puryfier is also seeing this on a 900 to I may post ther too.

Dave

Hello.
I also uses the BBK/Oppo with ae700. And i have the same issues as you. Its only displayes 60Hz in 720p.
But with my other upconverting DVD player (Toshibe SD-350E), the AE700 displayed 50Hz in PAL 720p. With the toshiba i used a strait HDMI/HDMI cable, with the Oppo i use the same cable + a DVI/HDMI adapter at the player.

eieio

11-20-05, 12:48 PM

Your question is a can of worms that this thread really doesn't need opened again.

Long story short: If you are an audiophile who honestly believes that two DVD players can really have a difference in sound over the digital connection despite the exact same bits being transmitted from disc to receiver in each case, you should continue to listen to your music CDs using the dedicated CD transport that you're currently happy with, and just watch movies on the DVD player.

Hello Josh Z, et al.

My post (just few before your reply) indicates that my current CD player is a player, not CD transport, as I've included the decoder chip (Pacific Microsonics) as well as mentioned that it has a tube output stage. As a result, I do not follow your reply to my post. Nevertheless, whether this is a "can of worms that this thread really doesn't need opened again" or otherwise, remains to be seen as others may choose to reply to my request for information/advice/comments differently from you.

My Sonic Frontiers CD player outputs in analog to my current receiver. Previously, it was outputting to a tube pre-amp. As I've gone 5.1 now, my tube pre-amp and solid state power amp have been sold in favor of a temporary receiver which is adequate.

I repeat my previous post here for the benefit of others:

" Gentlemen:

my Oppo is arriving this coming week while i'm excited about its video prowess, being a long time audiophile, i'm interested in knowing if the unit's CD audio-only capabilities are acceptable, good, very good, or excellent?

FYI: my current CD player is a 5-7 year old Sonic Frontiers with the Pacific Microsonics decoder chip and a tube output stage (Sonic Frontiers is from Canada and known for their tube electronics).

Thank you in advance! "

Josh Z

11-20-05, 02:30 PM

The oppo is set to Auto and Video 2 using the latest firmware but the ae700 still shows 750/60p when I play a PAL disc. It's something I noticed months ago (it's all double checked) but never questioned until someone else mentioned it recently in this or the other oppo thread.

I'm on the 1022 firmware. Video Mode is Video2, TV Type is Auto, Resolution set for 720p. The DVI cable is connected to my iScan HD+ scaler. I just put in my PAL copy of Delicatessen and the iScan confirms 720p/50hz.

Whatever the issue is that you're experiencing (whether you're really getting 60hz or it's just a typo on the projector's info menu), it seems to be related to the specific projector, not to the current Oppo firmware.

Neuromancer

11-20-05, 03:04 PM

dgkp and k-pax,

Most likely this is a synching problem between the OPDV971H and the Panasonic line of projectors. This may be addressed when the new major PAL firmware is released, because there is a PAL ploarity synchronization error in the current firmwares.

wilsonrob

11-20-05, 04:52 PM

eieio
I have seen one test report taht says that the CD output is not as good as the best available. Presumably the issue is jitter on the CD stage, or simply a golden ears effect. I do not use my OPPO for CD playback but this is more of a convenience thing given teh way the room is laid out.

jonnyozero3

11-20-05, 10:01 PM

Hello Josh Z, et al.
...snip...
My post (just few before your reply) indicates that my current CD player is a player, not CD transport, as I've included the decoder chip (Pacific Microsonics) as well as mentioned that it has a tube output stage. As a result, I do not follow your reply to my post. Nevertheless, whether this is a "can of worms that this thread really doesn't need opened again" or otherwise, remains to be seen as others may choose to reply to my request for information/advice/comments differently from you.

My Sonic Frontiers CD player outputs in analog to my current receiver. Previously, it was outputting to a tube pre-amp. As I've gone 5.1 now, my tube pre-amp and solid state power amp have been sold in favor of a temporary receiver which is adequate.

I think Josh's comments were phrased as such because it seemed you were going to say that there are significant differences in CD playback via a digital connection from the player. If you are going to use the analog 2ch outs from the player, then yes I'm sure there will be differences since it will be using the DACs in your temporary receiver. He was referring to the "can of worms" where people debate endlessly over whether or not you can hear a difference in sound over a digital connection (as in, using two different CD players, both connected via optical or coax to the same receiver, and hearing differences....for the record, I doubt there will be much of a difference).

Paul Bigelow

11-20-05, 11:07 PM

I think the 971H sounds pretty good. My reference player is a Sony CDP-X77ES connected to a modified Luxman LX-33 vacuum tube integrated with Stax SR404 & Stax SRD7 Professional energizer.

Paul

eieio

11-21-05, 12:06 AM

Paul,

may i ask how you're using the Oppo? are you using the digital output so your Oppo is only being used as the CD transport? (if so, what is your external processor?) or are you using the analog outputs of the Oppo so you're actually using the Oppo's internal decoder?

thanks!

soheilm3

11-21-05, 12:17 AM

Neuromancer

11-21-05, 02:25 AM

soheilm3

11-21-05, 03:06 AM

The Faroudja chipset in the Samsung will only apply itself to an analog signal that is 480i.

The question becomes: which is the better scaler, the TV or the DVD player?

Personaly, I've always prefered an external scaler, let it be a DVD player, or a stand alone scaling device (like an Iscan+), over the internal scaler of most display devices.

very good to know. i've been back reading a few pages that i missed, seems that there are some happy sammy owners out there, so im startin to swing towards the oppo. i guess i could always return it no?

any more help would be GREAT
--soheil

dgkp

11-21-05, 03:58 AM

Hello Josh Z, et al.

My post (just few before your reply) indicates that my current CD player is a player, not CD transport, as I've included the decoder chip (Pacific Microsonics) as well as mentioned that it has a tube output stage. As a result, I do not follow your reply to my post. Nevertheless, whether this is a "can of worms that this thread really doesn't need opened again" or otherwise, remains to be seen as others may choose to reply to my request for information/advice/comments differently from you.

My Sonic Frontiers CD player outputs in analog to my current receiver. Previously, it was outputting to a tube pre-amp. As I've gone 5.1 now, my tube pre-amp and solid state power amp have been sold in favor of a temporary receiver which is adequate.

I repeat my previous post here for the benefit of others:

" Gentlemen:

my Oppo is arriving this coming week while i'm excited about its video prowess, being a long time audiophile, i'm interested in knowing if the unit's CD audio-only capabilities are acceptable, good, very good, or excellent?

FYI: my current CD player is a 5-7 year old Sonic Frontiers with the Pacific Microsonics decoder chip and a tube output stage (Sonic Frontiers is from Canada and known for their tube electronics).

Thank you in advance! "

The "crankyness" here only comes from the fact that this was thoroughly gone into about a fortnight ago and probably even before that. You might like to check those eariler posts.

Dave

dgkp

11-21-05, 04:20 AM

dgkp and k-pax,

This may be addressed when the new major PAL firmware is released.

Would this mean that 2:2 cadence isn't working? And, any idea when this fw is due? (e.g., short, medium, long term?)

Dave

dvdr

11-21-05, 04:45 AM

Would this mean that 2:2 cadence isn't working? And, any idea when this fw is due? (e.g., short, medium, long term?)

Dave
Hi Dave

there seem to be a few PAL-issues to be corrected, still. But if you read my post in the other Oppo thread
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6570182&&#post6570182
then you'll find, that the current Oppo firmware withstands even the hardest PAL-test possible, when you switch off TrueLife, and still withstands the second hardest PAL-Test with TrueLife on...
So - in technical terms, not all PAL-necessary things seem to be supported yet, but viewing PAL discs with TrueLife off still gives an amazing quality.

Joerg

P.S.: Quoting myself:

I noticed something interesting for PAL-users, yesterday, too: different qualities of 2:2 pulldown and de-interlacing.I used the Peter Finzel Test-disc (PAL). He offers two very tricky and revealing tests, one progressive, one interlaced. The test has 3 steps:
1.) a small picture of a house moves back and forth diagonally over the screen - you should see no jaggies, details in the picture should not "jitter" and be clearly visible, the move should be smooth
2.) thin lines are attached to the side of the picture and extend to the outside, all that moves diagonally. On the sides, there is a static vertical b/w burst. All should be clearly visible, no jaggies, no jumps etc.
3.) a very tricky, triangular pattern containing lines and very small squares is moving diagonally - Peter Finzel states this as the ultimate de-interlacing/2:2 pulldown test, hardly a machine can stand that test: most players just show blinking triangles instead of the whole pattern moving, detail being clearly visible (quote: "if your player stands test #3, then you have high-end machine")

Until yesterday, my Oppo (newest firmware) always did tests #1 and 2 very well, #3 failed (the Oppo always was in Video2-mode). Accidentaly, I switched off TrueLife (CCS was still on) - and test #3 was passed as well!!!!! That puts the Oppo in a top position with not many competitors.

dgkp

11-21-05, 05:46 AM

Hi Dave

there seem to be a few PAL-issues to be corrected, still. But if you read my post in the other Oppo thread
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6570182&&#post6570182
then you'll find, that the current Oppo firmware withstands even the hardest PAL-test possible, when you switch off TrueLife, and still withstands the second hardest PAL-Test with TrueLife on...
So - in technical terms, not all PAL-necessary things seem to be supported yet, but viewing PAL discs with TrueLife off still gives an amazing quality.

Joerg

P.S.: Quoting myself:

Yes, Jeorg, I'd read your post with interest and I always have truelife off. However, Neuromancer seemed to imply that the problem with the AE700 displaying 60hz may mean that the pj wasn't synching properly with the oppo so I was wondering whether I am seeing all the advantages you are reporting or whether the oppo is taking the 2:2 cadence and applying 3:2 pull down to it. I have both Avia and DVE basic calibration discs but there is nothing there to test such things as far as I know.

Anybody in PAL-land got any good scenes/types of scenes to show tearing?

Dave

Paul Bigelow

11-21-05, 10:12 AM

eieio,

Analog out as I also use the DVD-Audio capability.

Paul

psraj

11-21-05, 10:46 AM

Ja Phule

11-21-05, 10:50 AM

psraj

11-21-05, 11:12 AM

Well it depends, are you comparing a $2000 htpc with a very good graphics card running a fully-tweaked-to-perfection theatek software or a $400 pc with windvd software? Many factors to take into consideration here.

My PC is a very decent h/w, I have a Soyo Dragon2 m/b with Pentium 4 2.4GHz CPU, 512MB of RAM, the VGA card is GeForce4 Ti 4200 8X AGP 64MB. I downloaded the Thetertek eval s/w for trying out. Do you think this hardware is good enough or I am in the wrong boat here.

dgkp

11-21-05, 11:36 AM

My PC is a very decent h/w, I have a Soyo Dragon2 m/b with Pentium 4 2.4GHz CPU, 512MB of RAM, the VGA card is GeForce4 Ti 4200 8X AGP 64MB. I downloaded the Thetertek eval s/w for trying out. Do you think this hardware is good enough or I am in the wrong boat here.

It's a question for the HTPC thread really. Though if you look a few pages above you'll see a review comparing the oppo favourably to a good HTPC set up--though the HTPC set (at about 10x the price?) does beat it.

Dave

Bytehoven

11-21-05, 11:45 AM

Can anyone give a comparison between the Oppo and an HTPC. I have the Oppo and am very happy with the pic quality. I read many posts which make me feel an HTPC is the better performer, I am debating whether to build an HTPC or not. Can an HTPC outperform the Faroudja DCDi?

Thx

While aperfectly tweaked HTPC or outboard processor can offer a PQ advantage, the real benefit comes from the additional ways you can manipulate the image, such as hor & vert scaling.

I will specifically reference the Iscan HD, which has great hor & vert scaling/zoom controls. These controls come in real handy if you're running a 16:9 screen with with adjustable masking for 2.35:1. You may have noticed, the cinemascope format movies often vari slightly in their verticle height. So when you set up fixed alternate masking, the projected image may not always perfectly fit the cinemascope srceen format. Being able to resize the verticle dimension with adding any scaling artifacts, is a power tool for improving the presentation.

I mention this, because while I would not consider upgrading from the OPPO purely on PQ, I would consider upgrading to get such extra image management capability.

psraj

11-21-05, 01:30 PM

While aperfectly tweaked HTPC or outboard processor can offer a PQ advantage, the real benefit comes from the additional ways you can manipulate the image, such as hor & vert scaling.

I will specifically reference the Iscan HD, which has great hor & vert scaling/zoom controls. These controls come in real handy if you're running a 16:9 screen with with adjustable masking for 2.35:1. You may have noticed, the cinemascope format movies often vari slightly in their verticle height. So when you set up fixed alternate masking, the projected image may not always perfectly fit the cinemascope srceen format. Being able to resize the verticle dimension with adding any scaling artifacts, is a power tool for improving the presentation.

I mention this, because while I would not consider upgrading from the OPPO purely on PQ, I would consider upgrading to get such extra image management capability.

Ja, dgkp, Bytehoven - Thanks for all the responses, this forum is really very informative.

EricScott

11-21-05, 02:07 PM

okay. so instead of starting a thread, ive done quite a bit of reading, but still am not sure, would the oppo be worth it on a sammy hlp4663w as it already has the faroudja chip. should i just bite the bullet and do it? im debatin between between this and the panny s977s, or just using a good progressive scan compenent dvd.

sorry for the newbish post
--soheil

I have the Sammy 5063 and have owned a Panny S97 which I replaced w/ the Oppo so you can guess what I'm going to recommend.

First of all, as neuro pointed out, you will in fact see benefits from an upscaling player despite the fact that your Samsung has DCDi built in. The reason being you will be using an all digital connection which will bypass the Samsung's DCDi processing. The Samsung is not capable of accepting 480i over HDMI or DVI but the Oppo/Panny etc will pass 720p over DVI/HDMI to the Samsung so no processing/conversions are necessary. To utilize the DCDi in the Samsung you would need to pass 480i over component - in fact you will probably find that using regular prog scan dvd player connected via component, that the results are better w/ PS off.

I had the s97 for a while and liked it but found that there were a lot of noisy artifacts which really detracted from viewing. The Oppo is much better in this regard which a cleaner and more film like picture. On a well mastered DVD, the Oppo looks fantastic w/ the Sammy. While the s97 has a ton of options and features, I found this to be more of a pain than anything else. There were so many permutations of settings that I never knew for sure whether everything was set properly. Not to mention the hours and hours I spent testing lots of settings out to try to reduce the noise. The Oppo is simple and effective. Plus it is much more responsive to IR commands which always annoyed me on the S97.

Neuromancer

11-21-05, 02:39 PM

Would this mean that 2:2 cadence isn't working? And, any idea when this fw is due? (e.g., short, medium, long term?)

Dave

2:2 Cadence works, it is just horribly configured in its current state. The 2:2 flags have to be very precise, and contained within a PAL DVD, otherwise the OPPO will not read them at all. Add to this the polarity issue, and the "memory loss", and you are looking at a crippled PAL product (which is understandable, since the OPDV971H was designed for a US user base).

CJayB

11-21-05, 03:06 PM

2:2 Cadence works, it is just horribly configured in its current state. The 2:2 flags have to be very precise, and contained within a PAL DVD, otherwise the OPPO will not read them at all. Add to this the polarity issue, and the "memory loss", and you are looking at a crippled PAL product (which is understandable, since the OPDV971H was designed for a US user base).

Good points, but as far as being crippled for PAL use because the Oppo was designed for a US user base, in this day and age, with how easy it is to get DVDs from overseas, even a player designed for the NTSC US market should not be slighting PAL. That said, it does appear that Oppo is working on fixing the PAL issues, and, god bless 'em, I have every confidence that they will soon get PAL right. The only major issue I think they may not be able to fully resolve is lipsync. That may always be the Achilles' heel of this player, for those who suffer from it.

Martin Butler

11-22-05, 11:07 AM

Bytehoven

11-22-05, 11:10 AM

I'm wondering how OPPO arrived at the incorrect setting of -3 for their latest upgrade. I have reset for correcting to studio DVI levels, but why didn't they get it set to 0 in the first place? Don't they adjust these things using gear like the ACCUPEL that guitarman used?

The next software update D-1111 is supposed to correct the DVI output settings. D-1111b is shipping on players recently sold by OPPO, and my player should have it when it arrives in a few days.

Martin Butler

11-22-05, 11:26 AM

Bytehoven

11-22-05, 11:33 AM

Thanks Bytehoven, still I wonder how they got the wrong setting and then sent out all those CD's to upgrade. Now they will have to do it again. Hopefully they'll address other issues in the D-1111b, like lipsync or underscan. (crossing fingers) ;)

The email I received from OPPO regarding D-1111b, said the update was only to correct the DVI contrast/brightness settings. But as you say, maybe they will make other adjustments if those updates are ready fro public consumption.

How does OPPO make such a mistake? I have no idea, but it's great that there was a work around thru minus/plus settings of the controls. It's also great that they have been very quick in providing updates to improve performance with the settings set to factory defaults. I mean, how many people didn't know about the calibration adjustments, and thought the OPPO was simply a poor player?

I would note, other major brand players have had similar problems, which were also corrected via updates. So OPPO is not alone in it's over sight.

ssj2

11-22-05, 01:32 PM

Martin Butler

11-22-05, 02:00 PM

psraj, try this, Andrea Manuti reviews the OPPO and uses an HTPC as his benchmark: http://www.htprojectors.com/indexENG.asp

Neuromancer

11-22-05, 02:07 PM

I'm wondering how OPPO arrived at the incorrect setting of -3 for their latest upgrade. I have reset for correcting to studio DVI levels, but why didn't they get it set to 0 in the first place? Don't they adjust these things using gear like the ACCUPEL that guitarman used?

When they were doing the brightness adjustments, their equipement was down. They had to use their eyes for their testing. They did an artificial +5 adjustment, but in actuality it turned out to be +8. they caught the mistake too late, and decided to go ahead with the firmware release (due to the amount of additions) and change the brightness later (D-1111 firmware).

euckersw

11-22-05, 03:52 PM

justsc

11-22-05, 04:26 PM

Hi all - I've read through many of the posts and tried searching the thread, so I apologize if this has already been answered:

I'm very interested in purchasing the Oppo, but wondering if there are still advantages to using the Oppo even if you have a CRT HDTV? I'm wondering as it seems like a lot of the advantages might be when viewing a DLP, etc., HDTV. Thanks in advance for any advice.

-Scott
I've got a 34" Sony CRT HD set and I'm very happy with my Oppo player. At first, I was reluctant since, as I understand it, these upconversion players are really targeted at fixed-pixel displays. And I can see why that is, but I clearly see improvements in my picture quality. What really blew me away is how this unit handles audio. I have a $200 Home Theater in a Box. My previous PS player did very well with video and audio, but this player makes it sound like I've got a brand new audio system. I bought it for the video enhancements, and it delivered, but this great audio is the icing on the cake.

Cheers! ;)

drbonbi

11-22-05, 04:55 PM

Scott,

I second everything justic says. I have a Sony 34 XBR910 CRT direct view 1080i TV and a $260. Panny HTIB. The Oppo just makes both better.

Dana

theroys88

11-22-05, 05:22 PM

justsc

11-22-05, 05:38 PM

I think it depends on what player you had before you switched to the Oppo. If you had an adverage player with adverage deinterlacing capabilities then you will see an improvement on a CRT. Alot of people confuse the impovement and think it is the upconverting when in reality it is the deinterlacer. DCDI makes most of the difference. I have a Philips Q50 and the PQ on my Toshiba and Panasonic CRTs is great. I have yet to find another player to match the PQ. I also use component cables from bluejeans cables which made a difference. Most people that have seen dramatic differences all own fixed pixel displays. Most CRT owners that I have talked to that owned a older player with the 2200 chip and switched to the Oppo saw minimal improvement.
I think this is true of my experience. I really bought this Oppo player for the better de-interlacer. My previous player was your garden variety $100 progressive scan device. Now I can easily see the benefits of a good quality video processor, and it's clearly better than the one in my tv set as well.

But this audio improvement is what really has me sold. Again, my HTiB is pretty much garden variety, but the Oppo just makes it sing.

It was definitely worth $200 IMHO. ;)

I live close to Oppo here in Mt. View, CA, so I just stopped by the location and purchased it. On the way home I stopped by my Dad's place to show it to him. He's got a 32" Panasonic LCD set and we set it up to see what it could do. The improvement on his set was like "night and day." Everything about the video was better. So, I believe it is true that you get more bang for the buck on fixed-pixel displays.

But I'm keeping mine - he can't have it! I'll buy him one for Christmas.

euckersw

11-22-05, 06:43 PM

Thanks for all of the replies - good info. I've got a Sony KV-30HS420 CRT, but just a cheap-o DVD/VCR combo. Sounds like I have a shot at better picture quality with the Oppo, so I'm going to go for it. Thanks again for the help.

-Scott

CJayB

11-22-05, 07:42 PM

I think it depends on what player you had before you switched to the Oppo. If you had an adverage player with adverage deinterlacing capabilities then you will see an improvement on a CRT. Alot of people confuse the impovement and think it is the upconverting when in reality it is the deinterlacer. DCDI makes most of the difference. I have a Philips Q50 and the PQ on my Toshiba and Panasonic CRTs is great. I have yet to find another player to match the PQ. I also use component cables from bluejeans cables which made a difference. Most people that have seen dramatic differences all own fixed pixel displays. Most CRT owners that I have talked to that owned a older player with the 2200 chip and switched to the Oppo saw minimal improvement.

If you're using component cables, the Oppo doesn't have much to offer over your average DVD player, and will not hold up to something like the Denon 2200. The Oppo only shines with DVI. In which case, it will be an improvement for most displays over most DVD players, whether the display is CRT or not. I have a 53" Sony CRT and have been using the Oppo with DVI for about 70% of my viewing, versus about 30% for an SDI modded Panasonic RP-91 using an iScan HD+. The RP-91, which is also modded to be region-free, cost about $900 vs. $180 for the Oppo. The RP-91/HD+ combo is quite beautiful, but even still I more often than not prefer using the Oppo with my CRT. I see little benefit to the Opp no matter what display you have if the display doesn't have DVI/HDMI. You might as well save your money and get a $50 no-name player if you're using component. In fact, I have a $25 after rebate Yamakawa that will match the Oppo for picture quality if using component.

eieio

11-22-05, 09:12 PM

Just received my Oppo, current firmware doesn't work with my Sony 60xbr1 (black bar on right on 720p and 1080i modes):

i was sadly disappointed that out of the box, the Oppo doesn't sync properly with my Sony 60xbr1 (i never considered my Sony to be exotic and i assumed that the Oppo has to work properly with it, why wouldn't it?): black bar on right for both 720p and 1080i.

burned a CD for the previous firmware (of approx 1 month ago, according to tech support). ran it on the unit. voila, now, there's no "over scanning" and the Oppo seems to be sync'ing properly with my Sony TV.

one interesting note: at 1080i, i see horizontal lines on my Sony, albeit i was sitting very very close to the TV accidently because i just inserted the dvd. upon switching over to 720p, the horizontal lines are virtually all gone. i am wondering if i would be getting better results with the Oppo set to 720p or 1080i with my brand new Sony 60xbr1?? so far, the Sony TV's image quality is just smashing. i'm still dumbfounded when i turn it on. ;)

my original goal was to let the Farouja do as much work as possible, as it probably will do it better than the Sony can (meaning i think the Sony might not scale up from 720p to 1080i as well as the Farouja chip in the Oppo). but when i happened to be seated unrealistically close to the tv when i inserted the dvd and saw those horizontal lines, i'm no longer sure which would be better: 720p or 1080i for my specific TV...

any advice/comments?

thanks in advance!

Neuromancer

11-22-05, 09:17 PM

eieio,

Try switching to the OP971H-D-1022 firmware. The D-1111 change two things: The brightness is now "Studio Standard" and they implemented a beta synching change to correct some PAL shifting issues. Apparently, some display types will actually shift with the new firmware, and not with the old. Worth a try.

Sony might not have a good scaler for interlaced images through the HDMI input. As such, you will want to likely use 720p and let the Sony re-scale the image to its native resolution.

theroys88

11-22-05, 09:43 PM

If you're using component cables, the Oppo doesn't have much to offer over your average DVD player, and will not hold up to something like the Denon 2200. The Oppo only shines with DVI. In which case, it will be an improvement for most displays over most DVD players, whether the display is CRT or not. I have a 53" Sony CRT and have been using the Oppo with DVI for about 70% of my viewing, versus about 30% for an SDI modded Panasonic RP-91 using an iScan HD+. The RP-91, which is also modded to be region-free, cost about $900 vs. $180 for the Oppo. The RP-91/HD+ combo is quite beautiful, but even still I more often than not prefer using the Oppo with my CRT. I see little benefit to the Opp no matter what display you have if the display doesn't have DVI/HDMI. You might as well save your money and get a $50 no-name player if you're using component. In fact, I have a $25 after rebate Yamakawa that will match the Oppo for picture quality if using component.

I think most know the Oppo only does 480i through the component. My point was that some people that are seeing a PQ difference are most likely seeing mostly the benefit of DCDI. I also have the Yamakawa 238 and mine has been pretty poor on the progressive side. I have tried several upscaling players, Zenith 318,
Samsung 931, NeuNeo 2081 and my Philips q50 has been the best so far. In a close 2nd has been a Memorex MVD-242 which was a little softer but colours were great and seemed more 3-D. Unfortunately had some strange quirks like foreign subtitles coming on on certain movies. Navigation was incredibly fast and 0 layer change. It uses the mediatek and Sunplus deinterlacer chip. If anyone has a Toshiba HDTV CRT or a Panasonic CRT and some personal experience on PQ with the Oppo and these displays I would appreciate. My wife thinks I have a real problem.

Neuromancer

11-22-05, 09:46 PM

The new firmware is available D-1111B (http://www.oppodigital.com/Download/Firmware_971h-1111b.iso)

It only addresses the brightness (default is now Studio Standard), and possibly some shifting issues some users have had (either pro, or con)

shogo33

11-22-05, 11:48 PM

CJayB

11-23-05, 12:00 AM

I think most know the Oppo only does 480i through the component. My point was that some people that are seeing a PQ difference are most likely seeing mostly the benefit of DCDI. I also have the Yamakawa 238 and mine has been pretty poor on the progressive side. I have tried several upscaling players, Zenith 318,
Samsung 931, NeuNeo 2081 and my Philips q50 has been the best so far. In a close 2nd has been a Memorex MVD-242 which was a little softer but colours were great and seemed more 3-D. Unfortunately had some strange quirks like foreign subtitles coming on on certain movies. Navigation was incredibly fast and 0 layer change. I used the mediatek and Sunplus deinterlacer chip. If anyone has a Toshiba HDTV CRT or a Panasonic CRT and some personal experience on PQ with these displays I would appreciate. My wife thinks I have a real problem.

I specifically used the Yamakawa as a comparison to the Oppo through component because the Yamakawa is basically an interlaced player, the same as the Oppo, even though unlike the Oppo the Yamakawa will do progressive, it just is next to worthless. Even without DCDI, the Oppo has some great picture benefits; back in the old days when the Oppo shut off DCDI when using TruLife, I ran it without DCDI because I cannot stand TruLife and had to turn it off. Even without DCDI, the Oppo did a good job of deinterlacing, almost as good as the job done by the HD+ with real world tests as opposed to the test discs.

Martin Butler

11-23-05, 12:03 AM

On the OPPO firmware CD there were instructions for setting and choosing the remote (silver or black). Perhaps you missed that part?

shogo33

11-23-05, 12:30 AM

No. I downloaded the update, converted it from an ISO file to a BIN file and burned it to a cd. Thats how i've done all my updates since i got the player in May.

So, i should just perform the "hold" on the STOP button for 5 seconds to switch the operation functions for the SILVER remote?

deez

11-23-05, 12:32 AM

this happened to me too......

shogo33

11-23-05, 12:35 AM

Phew..thanks for confirming this Deez..i thought i burned a doddgy BIN file onto the CD.

Neuromancer

11-23-05, 01:29 AM

Someone at OPPO forgot the disclaimer: FOR BLACK REMOTES ONLY.

The "B" designates "Black" which implies "Black remote only".

deez

11-23-05, 01:33 AM

I went back to old firmware.......i wish they would keep old firmware up for things like this....

Neuromancer

11-23-05, 01:51 AM

I went back to old firmware.......i wish they would keep old firmware up for things like this....

Actually, they do, but it has to be requested now.

hsinnott

11-23-05, 02:01 AM

Ok.. tried the Oppo firmware 1111b release update. The new firmware has screwed up my remote commands and the buttons do not correspond to the appropriate actions, eg: DVI button now adjusts the (+) volume setting.

What is going on? Ddid they change the default remote commands to the meet the black remote's settings? I have the original silver remote btw. Hmm, will have to revert back to the old firmware now.

1111b is ONLY for newer black remote- next week firmware will be released to cover older silver remote. Do yourself a favor though, try out a Harmony remote- the Oppo remotes are terrible.

shogo33

11-23-05, 02:35 AM

thanks guys..its always handy to keep the Old firmware Cd's lying around..
And thanks for confirming that the 1111b firmware is for black remotes only.

andersls

11-23-05, 04:13 AM

hello Forum...will this new firmware correct "picture-shift" on the dvi-output? If so...I am one happy duck! My dvi output is not correctly aligned...needs to be shifted left and up a bit, to be perfect. I will have to wait for the "silver" remote update though...can neuromancer(or someone else) confirm this+

Anders.

eieio

11-23-05, 08:25 AM

ILJG

11-23-05, 09:33 AM

Hi Oppo-philes!

So, I finally got my Sony KDS-R60XBR1 delivered and set up. Lined the OPPO into HDMI to the set, digital audio to the receiver.

Did the firmware update to 1022. I never saw the "New RC" message when pressing "STOP" on the unit like the web document instructed, and it looked like for a few minutes my remote didn't work after the upgrade. Seriously, I pulled the batteries out and put them back in about 20 minutes later, and it worked. No remote problems after that.

I noticed that when I sent DVD at 480p I had no lip sync issue whatsoever. But the PQ wasn't nearly as nice as it was at 1080i. But at 1080i, it was like watching an old dubbed Godzilla movie. The audio and video weren't even close to being in sync. With the advice of the good folks here I tried 30ms delay, and it looked like it was "almost there" as far as being in sync. At 40ms, it was right on. (My receiver has no delay feature)

Here's the tick. As of now, it REALLY bothers me. :mad:

I get what appears to be very random drift. I was about 45 minutes into LOTR:FOTR, and it appeared to have drifted (fallen out of sync) quite quickly. (Although, more than likely, it had probably been drifting incrementally all along, but it reached a threshhold of recognition at that point). I remember reading here that people said they'd pause or stop the unit to correct this. Well, you know when you have a new remote you're not familiar with and you fumble for commands? I hit "Prev 2X" by mistake, and it was instantly fixed. I'm not kidding, for the rest of the movie, about 2.5 more hours it was fine. Then I popped in Alias, and the lipsync occurred within the first 10 minutes of the first episode. Again, the "Prev 2X" seemed to correct it right on the spot, and the remainder of the episode was fine. In the second episode, it was within 5 minutes, and again the same trick fixed it and the rest of the episode was fine. Moving chapters didn't seem to cause a sync issue for me. This "drift" is extremely irritating to me. I haven't watched more than LOTR and these two eps of Alias so I don't know just how prevalent this issue is, but who would be happy with having this happen at least once on every movie they watch? :mad:

My concern is that I'll have this issue with any upconverting DVD player. I know this may not be the proper forum to ask this question, but has anyone had these (seemingly) drift and sync problems with the OPPO, that other upconverting DVD players didn't have? If so, which players?

On the plus side, the PQ was absolutely stunning. LOTR looked wonderful. The quality was almost as good as pure HD. I know LOTR rings may not be as good as Sin City or Dark City to judge blacks, but it must be close, especially in the beginning, and in Moria. I can't get over how good the BTB is. Former knocks against LCOS displays were black levels, but it looks great. I wouldn't know how much to attribute to the display and how much to the OPPO, but this combination hits a bullseye. The scenes in Rivendel with all the autumn colors are amazing. Goose-bump inducing. And the annoying layer changes you memorize with your favorite DVDs? I saw no sign of it on LOTR. (you know the shot when they're going to leave Rivenell?) I saw no blurring or artifacts or any problems with any fast movement or action scenes. I can't wait to watch The Incredibles and Monsters Inc for my next test, animated movies.

Any feedback or experiences, as have been kindly shared before, are greatly appreciated.

Thanks again for all your great input. I'll post some more as I keep testing, but it will have to wait until after me and my relatives are done stuffing oursleves with turkey!

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone! :D

Paul Bigelow

11-23-05, 09:49 AM

Toonces T. Cat

11-23-05, 10:30 AM

The auidio sync problem has been discussed a lot. Some see it rarely, some see it a lot. The delay, for the most part is an "average setting": Make the change, evaualte over time and a few movies, make another change, if necessary, repeat. Accessing the setup panel can introduce its own delay issue.

If possible, try the analog outputs.

Paul,

I think one thing a lot of the newer members miss here is that it is a Faroudja issue far more than it is an OPPO problem only. I have a Samsung HD-931 that uses a Faroudja chip and the lip sync problem is awful...While to date, I have not seen it with my OPPO player.

As I understand it, Samsung and the other larger manufacturers have the clout with Faroudja to get the assistance they require to resolve the problem while OPPO does not have the same level of pull.

I can't swear to the veracity of that, but it does seem plausible to me.

-Toonces

justsc

11-23-05, 11:27 AM

the 1022 firmware solution worked for me: i no longer have the black bar on the right side of my 60xbr1.

how disappointing it was to plug my brand new Oppo in and, voila, the black bars appeared with the 720p and 1080i settings? how odd to issue a new firmware release when it doesn't work with a Sony tv? it's not that i have an exotic tv brand/model.

i actually see horizontal lines when i'm using the 1080i output mode, though i'm sitting way to close just by chance when i saw those lines, much like lines in an old fashioned tv. the 720p seems to make those lines almost not visible. what is the reasons for that, i wonder?

would it be preferable for me to use the 720p or the 1080i mode with my sony 60xbr1?

thanks in advance for your advice/comments!
I have a Sony 34" CRT HD set, and I have had to leave my Oppo "DVI" at 720p. At 1080i I see what I call a "pulsing" running across the screen from left to right. At 480p the image jumps, sometimes wildly. At 720p it's as solid as I could hope for. I've read it has something to do with the Oppo and it being challenged with interlaced signals.

I was worried that at 720p I'd be missing out, thinking I was possibly sacrificing some picture quality. But that hasn't been the case at all. At 720p this player works marvelously with my Sony set.

eieio

11-23-05, 11:43 PM

Paul Bigelow

11-24-05, 12:17 AM

Answered in the FAQ thread!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6590136&&#post6590136

Paul

Dragonsf

11-24-05, 01:03 AM

Maybe the wrong forum, but I'm looking for the optimal Digital Projector for my Oppo.
Should be up to 2500$ and at least WXGA. I think, the Hitachi PJ-TX200 could be the one, but has no DVI input, just HDMI. Would a DVi-HDMI cable be suffiucient? Is this projector any good? Are there different projectors in my budget, which are more suitable?
Viewing range will be 3-5m.

hsinnott

11-24-05, 05:12 AM

today is the first time i really played several discs on my 1-day old Oppo.

i noticed that on material that is non-widescreen, it is stretched on my sony 60xbr1. i had to go into setup, and select WideSqueeze to make the people not look fat. is this the right way to do this? Widesqueeze just sounds like it is doing something "extra" and not necessary...i was thinking that there might be a mode that just says something like "1.33:1". the widesqueeze choice sounds like the Oppo/farouja is somehow "forcing" the image to fit something, instead of saying that the dvd IS recorded in 1.33:1.

i'm a bit of a newbie at this, so please comment/advise me as to whether i'm reading too much into this and everything's fine, or there's another, superior way to set these types of non-wide dvd's up for my 60xbr1 tv.

thanks!!

PS: oh, justsc: thx for your reply. i'm not sure that CRT's and LCoS sets are necessarily comparable in terms of their respective interaction with the Oppo. i say that because there's something called 'native resolution' in LCoS (and other LCD-based displays) that may well affect how well/poorly it displays 720p versus 1080i. suffice it to say that i'm somewhat confused and am wondering why my 60xbr1 won't display 1080i BETTER than 720p from my Oppo. i have to admit that i'm not definitive on this yet as i haven't had much time to live with the Oppo yet, having just received it yesterday and not having too much time to play back dvd movies yet. i've watched a tiny segment of Lord of the Rings, and then some concert dvd's (Concert for Geroge).

Hopefully your Sony TV will have a stretch mode that will let you stretch the non-anamorphic image to the correct size on your screen- and that the picture will look ok. Unfortunetely, I have my Oppo connected to a Samsung DLP via DVI and my TV can't stretch the non-anamorphic picture. After numerous posts on this forum several people replied advising to use the players aspect ratio control to stretch the "fat" or "squished" looking non-anamophic picture. Unfortunetely the Oppo is awful at this in my set-up (via DVI to Samsung HLP 5063W DLP)and the only way to watch non-anamophic fliks for me is I've connected a 2nd player- a Zenith 318 player via component and that fixed my problem.

dgkp

11-24-05, 05:24 AM

today is the first time i really played several discs on my 1-day old Oppo.

i noticed that on material that is non-widescreen, it is stretched on my sony 60xbr1. i had to go into setup, and select WideSqueeze to make the people not look fat. is this the right way to do this? Widesqueeze just sounds like it is doing something "extra" and not necessary...i was thinking that there might be a mode that just says something like "1.33:1". the widesqueeze choice sounds like the Oppo/farouja is somehow "forcing" the image to fit something, instead of saying that the dvd IS recorded in 1.33:1.

i'm a bit of a newbie at this, so please comment/advise me as to whether i'm reading too much into this and everything's fine, or there's another, superior way to set these types of non-wide dvd's up for my 60xbr1 tv.

thanks!!

This is much debated...but I never tire of talking about it {EDIT: I've just seen that Paul has answered this on the other thread, this repeats much of what he says--sorry}.

720p often freezes aspect ratio on display devices. The wide-squeeze mode is there to account for this and I've always used it without any problems for 1:1.33 material (which I watch a lot of being a fan of old movies). Some have suggested that the oppo loses resolution in this mode but I've never seen it--you need some very specific test discs to show it. To counter this perceived loss some choose to set the oppo to 480p or 576p, which unfreezes the aspect ratio, and then use the display device to scale and set the aspect ratio. This also gives excellent results.

The real problem is with nonanamorphic letterbox discs which need to be zoomed. The oppo's zoom is not very good and it is better to use your display device if it has this facility (set to 480p/576p). The oppo doesn't use the faroudja chip to zoom, unfortunately, and as such it's not satisfactory. If you use your display device you'll still get the oppo's excellent de-interlacer but not the advantage of its upscaling. Results vary.

Hope this helps.

Dave

Riot Nrrrd™

11-24-05, 05:25 AM

dgkp

11-24-05, 05:32 AM

A couple of people on the previous page mentioned Sony 34" TV's - I am considering the Oppo and have a Sony KV-34XBR910. Currently I have my Sony SAT-HD300 DirecTV STB plugged into the DVI port on the TV, and a Denon DVD-2800 Mk. II (with Silicon Image Si503 chip) plugged in via a Component input. Can anyone (Paul or otherwise) comment about introducing the Oppo into such a setup? I'm getting the vibe here that you really only want to go DVI on the Oppo, but that means buying a $249-$299 2-into-1 DVI switcher as well because the PQ on the Sony SAT-HD300 DirecTV box with the DVI input is really quite good, and I'm rather loathe to change that to use a Component input instead. What's a mother to do?!?

Only buy the oppo if you are going to use DVI. Its component out is OK, but no better than many other cheaper players and you won't be able to take advantage of its excellent (unrivalled for the price) pq through DVI. Check how the HD looks through component. It may be fine.

Dave

eieio

11-24-05, 07:14 AM

dusterscott

11-24-05, 07:22 AM

A couple of people on the previous page mentioned Sony 34" TV's - I am considering the Oppo and have a Sony KV-34XBR910. Currently I have my Sony SAT-HD300 DirecTV STB plugged into the DVI port on the TV, and a Denon DVD-2800 Mk. II (with Silicon Image Si503 chip) plugged in via a Component input. Can anyone (Paul or otherwise) comment about introducing the Oppo into such a setup? I'm getting the vibe here that you really only want to go DVI on the Oppo, but that means buying a $249-$299 2-into-1 DVI switcher as well because the PQ on the Sony SAT-HD300 DirecTV box with the DVI input is really quite good, and I'm rather loathe to change that to use a Component input instead. What's a mother to do?!?

I personally use a Geffen HDMI switcher with HDMI/DVI adaptor cables to switch between my two DVI sources (the Oppo and my Samsung STB). Try Lenexpo.com. Over a year ago I tried a Geffen DVI switcher but it wasn't compatable with my equipment at the time. I believe the equipment-dependant problem with the Geffen DVI switchers may be resolved now but I'm only repeating what I've heard. It's unfortunate that most displays don't have multiple digital inputs.

dgkp

11-24-05, 09:07 AM

what is the quality difference between leaving the Oppo on Wide/Sqz and letting it go either 16:9 or 4:3, versus leaving the Oppo on Wide (so it only does 16:9 properly) and manually turning the Wide/Sqz on ONLY when there's 4:3 dvd in the player?

shouldn't the second alternative (leaving the Oppo on Wide and manually switching it to Wide/Sqz ONLY when necessary) mean that 16:9 MIGHT, just might have better results?

so the question really is: does 16:9 material look better when the Oppo is on Wide versus Wide/sqz? or is the 16:9 material identical in both settings becuase the auto detect is EQUAL to the manually setting method? i would think that the 4:3 material would look the same because whether you leave the Oppo on Wide or Wide/Sqz, when viewing 4:3 material, you HAVE to turn the Oppo to Wide/Sqz to get the proper proportions (i CANNOT stand stretched fat people, i firmly believe that whatever the correct proportions are of the print/dvd, i respect it and watch it as such, whether it be 4:3 or 16:9, i do NOT zoom, i do NOT want to lose anything, nor do i want people to look fatter than what they were filmed to look like).

thanks!

16:9 material is entirely unaffected by the wide-squeeze mode which is only intended to function when a 4:3 flag is recognized. As I said a few posts earlier the resolution loss in using the wide-squeeze mode to view 4:3 material is negligible on my set up, though apparently it can be quantified using the appropriate test discs (see below).

I did a host of 'eye-tests' (PAL and NTSC) on this a couple on months ago and could tell very little difference between setting the oppo to 480p/576p and using the AE700 to set the aspect ratio and do the scaling and leaving the oppo in 720p and letting wide-squeeze do the work. My conclusions were that wide-squeeze gave a very, very slightly less sharp image but was also very, very slightly more brittle, even noisy. I guess this was down to the ae700 adding noise whilst scaling. Anyway, I preferred the wide-squeeze image with the bonus that it is more convenient. [Toonces on the other thread disagrees with this--he is no doubt right for his system--if it's similar to yours try his test]. The other test is DVE 15.6 or 15.7, the resolution squares (15.6 on the PAL version). I can't see any difference between them at all.

If someone has a set up that doesn't freeze at 720p/1080i I expect they'll get better results setting the aspect ratio on thier display device.

The only reason to zoom is when watching a non-anamorphic letterbox image. I refer yo to the above posting and agree with you about respecting OAR.

Dave

[BTW eieio, can you just post question on one thread please? Thanks.]

eieio

11-24-05, 09:54 AM

Dave/dgkp,

thx for your answer. may i ask what your AE700 is? don't know which brand.

i suppose that the brand/model to the tv is highly important to how it interacts with the Oppo. as you said, your AE700 may show minute differences only when using Wide/sqz but Toonces' situation is with his sony LCD rear projection, so his tv and your tv may well interact/respond differently to the Oppo's output.

additionally, i think Toonces' tv and mine are different. he listed his tv as LCD rear projection and, if he had my tv, he would have listed it as LCoS/SXRD. right?

Paul Bigelow

11-24-05, 11:02 AM

The AE700 is Panasonic. Toonces display would be LCD rear projection -- Sony 50" Grand Wega II

Paul

Riot Nrrrd™

11-24-05, 01:10 PM

I personally use a Gefen HDMI switcher with HDMI/DVI adaptor cables to switch between my two DVI sources (the Oppo and my Samsung STB). Try Lenexpo.com. Over a year ago I tried a Gefen DVI switcher but it wasn't compatable with my equipment at the time. I believe the equipment-dependent problem with the Gefen DVI switchers may be resolved now but I'm only repeating what I've heard.Can you tell me what the incompatibility was?

I'm also curious whether people have any opinions on Gefen's vs. Ophit's vs. Dtrovision's products in this area ... (Digital Connection have a sweet deal on Ophit's 4-port DVI switcher, but I'm wondering if the Dtrovision product is the best one, pricing-independent)

It's unfortunate that most displays don't have multiple digital inputs.Amen to that, brother ... what were these TV manufacturers thinking?!? "Let's put 4 Component inputs on this new TV set along with a single DVI input right when everything is switching to Digital ... yeah, that's the ticket" :eek:

Atorak

11-24-05, 02:17 PM

justsc

11-24-05, 04:34 PM

A couple of people on the previous page mentioned Sony 34" TV's - I am considering the Oppo and have a Sony KV-34XBR910. Currently I have my Sony SAT-HD300 DirecTV STB plugged into the DVI port on the TV, and a Denon DVD-2800 Mk. II (with Silicon Image Si503 chip) plugged in via a Component input. Can anyone (Paul or otherwise) comment about introducing the Oppo into such a setup? I'm getting the vibe here that you really only want to go DVI on the Oppo, but that means buying a $249-$299 2-into-1 DVI switcher as well because the PQ on the Sony SAT-HD300 DirecTV box with the DVI input is really quite good, and I'm rather loathe to change that to use a Component input instead. What's a mother to do?!?
I have a very similar set-up with my 34" Sony crt set. So I've chosen to have my STB connected via component cables, since there are two such ports. Actually, I get better PQ with the STB using components vs. DVI/HDMI. This way I can use the DVI for the Oppo player.

Riot Nrrrd™

11-24-05, 05:20 PM

Actually, I get better PQ with the STB using components vs. DVI/HDMI. This way I can use the DVI for the Oppo player.That's absolutely fascinating. I realize (looking back a page) that you have a Samsung STB, and maybe there's a difference there - but I guess I'll have to try it and see. To me, the Sony SAT-HD300 gives great PQ over DVI - I've never even tried using it on a Component input instead, because the PQ was so good as-is. Guess there's a time to try everything (and it would be nice to save a couple hundred bucks if I didn't need to get that 2 DVI -> 1 DVI box).

Happy Thanksgiving every(US)body ...

justsc

11-24-05, 06:01 PM

That's absolutely fascinating. I realize (looking back a page) that you have a Samsung STB, and maybe there's a difference there - but I guess I'll have to try it and see. To me, the Sony SAT-HD300 gives great PQ over DVI - I've never even tried using it on a Component input instead, because the PQ was so good as-is. Guess there's a time to try everything (and it would be nice to save a couple hundred bucks if I didn't need to get that 2 DVI -> 1 DVI box).

Happy Thanksgiving every(US)body ...
Actually, I have a Comcast (Motorola) STB, the dual tuner DVR, 6412. My receiver is part of a Sony Home Theater in a Box, and I use an Oppo DVD Player.

But, yes, I get much better picture quality using component cables from the STB rather than using the DVI->HDMI cable. I've read that many others have had the same experience.

I would definitely try that before investing so much money in a switch box.

Good Luck and Happy Thanksgiving ;)

Riot Nrrrd™

11-24-05, 06:22 PM

Actually, I have a Comcast (Motorola) STB, the dual tuner DVR, 6412.D'OH!@ Sorry ... had you confused with someone else :o
But, yes, I get much better picture quality using component cables from the STB rather than using the DVI->HDMI cable. I've read that many others have had the same experience.OK - but in my case, I don't have HDMI, it's a straight DVI cable from the SAT-HD300 into the KV-34XBR910 (which has only DVI, not HDMI). I wonder if the DVI-HDMI adapter makes any difference in PQ ... one would think it shouldn't, but ...

Anyway, to get back on topic, I'll try this tonight - and I'll probably order the Oppo from Amazon tomorrow. :cool:

Paul Bigelow

11-24-05, 09:12 PM

Eh I just got my Oppo player yesterday and I hooked it up to my new HP 5880 1080p set using HDMI, and it keeps giving me a "No Disc" error no matter what DVD I put in the tray.

Are these DVDs all burned or store bought DVDs or a mix of both? If burned only, try some store bought originals.

Paul

dusterscott

11-25-05, 01:20 AM

Can you tell me what the incompatibility was?

I'm also curious whether people have any opinions on Gefen's vs. Ophit's vs. Dtrovision's products in this area ... (Digital Connection have a sweet deal on Ophit's 4-port DVI switcher, but I'm wondering if the Dtrovision product is the best one, pricing-independent)

Amen to that, brother ... what were these TV manufacturers thinking?!? "Let's put 4 Component inputs on this new TV set along with a single DVI input right when everything is switching to Digital ... yeah, that's the ticket" :eek:

I believe it was an incompatability with the DVI Switcher and my Sony RP LCD. I just got a snowy picture. Like I said though, they may have fixed the problem.

justsc

11-25-05, 11:11 AM

D'OH!@ Sorry ... had you confused with someone else :o
OK - but in my case, I don't have HDMI, it's a straight DVI cable from the SAT-HD300 into the KV-34XBR910 (which has only DVI, not HDMI). I wonder if the DVI-HDMI adapter makes any difference in PQ ... one would think it shouldn't, but ...

Anyway, to get back on topic, I'll try this tonight - and I'll probably order the Oppo from Amazon tomorrow. :cool:
Great! I think you're really going to like the Oppo, especially with the Sony's super fine pitch tube.

BTW-I don't think DVI to HDMI had any effect on PQ over DVI to DVI, it's exactly the same thing since no audio is being passed.

GSB

11-25-05, 02:34 PM

Eh I just got my Oppo player yesterday and I hooked it up to my new HP 5880 1080p set using HDMI, and it keeps giving me a "No Disc" error no matter what DVD I put in the tray.

Is there some way to fix this? I am really confused, I thought the thing should just work. Is this a known bug or something?

Heh please help I really need to check this baby out!!!!Is there a "transport" screw to remove underneath? I don't remember. Otherwise, your laser pickup may have been jarred in shipping. Pull the plug out for a few minutes and try again. If no go, phone OPPO. One other thing that you could try, is flash the 1022 firmware. A reflash will fix firmware-related problems.

Neuromancer

11-25-05, 06:38 PM

Is there a "transport" screw to remove underneath? I don't remember. Otherwise, your laser pickup may have been jarred in shipping. Pull the plug out for a few minutes and try again. If no go, phone OPPO. One other thing that you could try, is flash the 1022 firmware. A reflash will fix firmware-related problems.

The OPDV971H does not have a transport screw.

If you are using DVDs which are not region 1 coded, you will have to region unlock your player. Press Setup then "9210". Press 0, then Setup to exit.

Atorak

11-25-05, 09:06 PM

Still no go. I tried leaving my player on for hours, disk in, disk out, etc. I did the 9210 setup thing too, no dice. Playing music cds works fine, but I tried many DVDs and none of them work. I tried calling Oppo but I think they were closed.

Ugh, I'm dying to see what this player is capable of. Ill call Oppo again.

SirJohnFalstaff

11-26-05, 12:09 AM

Eh I just got my Oppo player yesterday and I hooked it up to my new HP 5880 1080p set using HDMI, and it keeps giving me a "No Disc" error no matter what DVD I put in the tray.

Is there some way to fix this? I am really confused, I thought the thing should just work. Is this a known bug or something?

Heh please help I really need to check this baby out!!!!

So far I get the "No Disk" error on only 3 of about 2 dozen DVD's I've tried to date. These are all older Paramount titles. When I get this error, all I have to do is put in a disk that works and play a minute or two of the movie, stop it and put in the disk that I got the "No Disk" error on. Then that disk plays no problem. It's a little annoying, but like I said it's on only 3 disks I've come across. If none of yours work, then it's gotta go back and be replaced. I'm sure the good folks at Oppo will send a replacement after the long weekend.

jackso888

11-26-05, 10:51 AM

I also have problems playing some of my discs on the oppo. The same disc play perfectly fine on my cheap Koss player. When I try to play the disc using my OPPO. I got two explorer like file folders, AUDIO_TS and VEDIO_TS. I try to select individual files inside the folders. I was able to get the initial movie start up menu. However, i am not able to move my cursor to select play in an attempt to play the movie. Any help will be appriciated.

Paul Bigelow

11-26-05, 11:07 AM

Which titles have problems? We can verify if other users have problems with these discs -- if they have the discs.

Are these studio produced discs or burned copies?

Paul

Atorak

11-26-05, 12:56 PM

The first one was Fight Club, then SW: Episode III, then Spiderman 2, then LOTR:ROTK. I dont own any burned movies, they are all store-bought.

After that I gave up, because if this player can't play those movies, I dont want it anyway!!

Ill try calling Oppo again, I keep getting an answering machine....

Neuromancer

11-26-05, 02:20 PM

jackso888

11-26-05, 02:51 PM

The problem disc is a burned disc. However, it played perfect on my other Koss player.

Capek

11-26-05, 03:06 PM

rlh149

11-26-05, 03:30 PM

I have oppo and I have played the -r discs that I burnt on my panasonic dvd recorder with no problems. And as far as the customer service from oppo I have yet to find any better. I sent them a e-mail and with in 30 min. I had a response from them. I got one of the originals I think and wanted to get the black remote for mine and it was shipped the next day no questions asked. I would recommend this player to anyone that asks. On there web site it seems they are always doing a upgrade to to the peoples response or needs.
rlh149

Donutz

11-26-05, 04:21 PM

I am abot to take delivery of the Oppo player for my Panny 42pwd6uy ED plasma. What is the conventional wisdom as to outputting native 480p, or using one of the upconverting resolutions? Any special considerations I should be aware of? Thanks.

CT_Wiebe

11-26-05, 05:18 PM

You can only get 480p out of the DVI output. For your ED display (480p), that's probably the best, but you should try the other options (720p & 1080i) and see which one looks the best. Just don't use the compnent outputs (480i only), you wont get a very good (as reported) picture.

TXP3064W

11-26-05, 07:43 PM

Per release notes from latest firmware update: If you only use the DVI video output and would like to get the best possible picture quality for both NTSC and PAL discs, you should select the “Video 2” mode. In this case the analog video outputs will not perform NTSC/PAL system conversion.

I only watch NTSC DVD's thru DVI, does this statement say i'll get better PQ if I set my player to "Video 2" mode, mine is currently on "Video 1" mode. I dont own any PAL DVDs or plan on purchasing them at this time. Im confused, mode 1 or mode 2?

Fatman513

11-26-05, 08:55 PM

Video 2.

Look at the "status bar" below when you highlight Video 2. It says something like "for DVI output".

shutterbug67

11-26-05, 09:00 PM

I just received my OPPO today and cannot get any button on the remote to work. I just get a little circle with a diagonal line up in the top left hand corner after hitting any button on my remote. Very dissappointing because I cannot do anything with the player. OPPO is closed until Monday so no luck trying to contact them. Was just wanting to check with you guys to see if anyone has had this problem or might know of a solution. I tried holding down the stop button like I read earlier in this thread but no luck. BTW, I bought this to replace a Sony 9000es DVD player... Am I backstepping? I am using the OPPO with a $6500 NEC Projector and a Integra 7.3 Receiver. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Neuromancer

11-26-05, 09:46 PM

Neuromancer

11-26-05, 09:47 PM

What's the consensus on this DVD players ability to play dvd-r and dvd+r disks? Oppo's product page says it plays them both, but I want to make sure. Also, will it really only play divx and xvid that are burned on dvd+r, and not dvd-r? Has anybody tested that out?

I have not had a single DVD+R/W disc crap out on me. I don't use DVD-R media, so I don't know how successful you will be with this media.

jimson

11-26-05, 09:58 PM

Video 2.

Look at the "status bar" below when you highlight Video 2. It says something like "for DVI output".

I must have missed something. In my setup menu it didn't give me an option to choose Video 2. Video 1 is there and greyed out. By the way, the manual is pretty useless. It does not describe anything in great detail.

Toonces T. Cat

11-26-05, 10:02 PM

I have not had a single DVD+R/W disc crap out on me. I don't use DVD-R media, so I don't know how successful you will be with this media.

I'll second that and add that, since starting to set my booktype to DVD-ROM on my burners, it hasn't balked at any +R dual layer media.

-Toonces :D

Neuromancer

11-26-05, 10:47 PM

I must have missed something. In my setup menu it didn't give me an option to choose Video 2. Video 1 is there and greyed out. By the way, the manual is pretty useless. It does not describe anything in great detail.

Press the Eject button, or double press "Stop". Now you can change your Video settings.

Fatman513

11-26-05, 11:20 PM

shutterbug; I received the 971 yesterday and had some initial inconveniences with it too. The A/B repeat button on my remote is stuck, so it's constantly sending that command to the player. I e-mailed Oppo yesterday evening and got a reply 7 minutes later. I'm not kidding, seven minutes. I've been on hold for longer than seven minutes with some companies. Anyway, they're gonna ship a new remote to me Monday.

If you have a question for them try e-mail instead of calling. I've received e-mail from them at 2 AM EST.

sphinx99

11-26-05, 11:25 PM

Just need a confirm to avoid any potential buyer's remorse... just picked up the Oppo! I am upgrading from my current Panasonic RP56 to have a new DVD player to feed my on-its-way Sanyo Z4 front projector over DVI/HDMI. I have been extremely happy with the RP56 and wanted something just like it but more modern: the best possible video quality with the build quality of a tin can. Audio will be digital to a receiver, and video is dvi/hdmi to my projector. I don't care much for any of the analog output capabilities. I want it to play well (no weird cropping issues, scaling issues, black level issues, etc.) for standard U.S. region commercial DVDs. Cheapo remote is not an issue for me either, prefer to use the Harmony.

From what I can tell, so long as I get it and refresh its firmware to the current rev, I should be very happy with the Oppo. Should I relax and sleep well, or scramble to cancel my order before it ships?

GSB

11-27-05, 02:42 AM

Just need a confirm to avoid any potential buyer's remorse...

From what I can tell, so long as I get it and refresh its firmware to the current rev, I should be very happy with the Oppo. Should I relax and sleep well, or scramble to cancel my order before it ships?You won't be sorry mate! The picture is glorious.

There are still a few defects being addressed, especially for PAL playback, but they should all be fixed in due time.

GSB

11-27-05, 02:49 AM

What's the consensus on this DVD players ability to play dvd-r and dvd+r disks? Oppo's product page says it plays them both, but I want to make sure. Also, will it really only play divx and xvid that are burned on dvd+r, and not dvd-r? Has anybody tested that out?I use both DVD-R and DVD+R. I use Nero, and I've never had a problem.

I haven't tried divx, but where did you hear that the OPPO will only play divx burned on DVD+R?

Trance Dog

11-27-05, 04:40 AM

Got a little problem:

Encoded a couple of files into XVID using TMPGenc 3.0. In there for audio I used Lame mp3 codec, 128/44100 CBR.

Oppo doesn't play the audio part.

GSpot shows the following audio information:

mpeglayer3 (mp3) (0x0055) ISO/MPEG, 128 kb/s (64/ch, stereo) 44100 Hz

Is there anything I did wrong, and if yes, what exactly?

Thanks.

bruin95

11-27-05, 06:46 AM

I use both DVD-R and DVD+R. I use Nero, and I've never had a problem.

Wish I could say the same thing. Up until a couple of days ago the Oppo would play ALL my DVD-R's flawlessly. Now I'm having nothing but problems. The video slows down while the audio plays normally, then the video speeds up to catch up to the audio. It does this about once every minute. All burned media exhibit this problem now, even discs that played fine before. All commercial DVD's play fine. This is very distressing. I e-mailed Oppo support and was told that I should probably re-flash the firmware. I did, and now it's even worse. Some of the discs don't even want to load up now. I have no clue as to what could have caused my burned discs to start exhibiting problems. Like I said, commercial discs still play without any problems. I really don't know what to do at this point. I'm very disappointed.

Mr. MX

11-27-05, 09:45 AM

dgkp

11-27-05, 10:04 AM

I have AE900 + BBKDV971H (same as Oppo) + Lindy HMDI 10 m cable and unsolvable problems with wrong signals. I've tried TV Type setup as "auto" and "PAL", but dvd player keeps giving 60-signal instead of 50. I've tried this with 720PSCAN and 1080ISCAN - still the same.

So, my DVD player is in NTSC mode all the time > converts the PAL signal to NTSC > twitchy & scratchy panning etc. My firmware is 1022.

Is this problem fixable - new firmware soon? I've heard bunch of same kinda problems with Oppo-AE900 combination.

I'm planning to change Oppo to Panasonic S97, if this bug is permanent.

This is, I think, a recognised problem. The major PAL firmware release due in December should fix it though. I'm not sure that the DVD player itself is giving the 60 signal as people with Z4s, for example, haver reported 50hz. It is rather a problem in communciation between the oppo and the pansonic (I have an ae700 with the same problem). Frankly, though, it doesn't seem to effect picture quality. PALs look every bit as good as NTSC discs.

Dave

Josh Z

11-27-05, 01:26 PM

Mr. MX, this was discussed previously (I forget whether it was in this thread or the Brain Dump thread). This seems to be a problem specifically with the AE900. The current Oppo firmware properly sends 720p at 50hz to my NEC projector when I set the player to Auto or PAL.

It is not yet known whether the AE900 is converting back to 60hz, or whether this is just a display error on the AE900 menu and you're really getting 50hz properly. In either case, it seems to be a problem with the projector, not the Oppo. Do you have any other region-free DVD players that will output a 50hz signal you can try on the AE900 so you can verify whether you get the same problem?

JaMiR

11-27-05, 03:39 PM

I have AE900 + BBKDV971H (same as Oppo) + Lindy HMDI 10 m cable and unsolvable problems with wrong signals. I've tried TV Type setup as "auto" and "PAL", but dvd player keeps giving 60-signal instead of 50. I've tried this with 720PSCAN and 1080ISCAN - still the same.

So, my DVD player is in NTSC mode all the time > converts the PAL signal to NTSC > twitchy & scratchy panning etc. My firmware is 1022.

Is this problem fixable - new firmware soon? I've heard bunch of same kinda problems with Oppo-AE900 combination.

I'm planning to change Oppo to Panasonic S97, if this bug is permanent.

Hi, i have this same problem. Oppo(fw1022)--->AE900, pal 720p is 60hz. I hope there will be update to fix this from Panasonic or Oppo. 576p seems to be 50hz, smoother pans,no tearing and AE900 do not report HZ, it just says 576p.

jdk123

11-27-05, 05:37 PM

Can you owners speak to the sound quality of the oppo player? I am upgrading my HT sound system and wondering if this player would be a weak link.

Bytehoven

11-27-05, 07:38 PM

Can you owners speak to the sound quality of the oppo player? I am upgrading my HT sound system and wondering if this player would be a weak link.

Both the Coax and Optical digital outputs are excellent.

I have not tried the analog outputs, and will probably never use them.

Paul Bigelow

11-27-05, 08:45 PM

Sounds good to me. Vocal and instrumental music sounds fine. DVD-Audio is enjoyably reproduced. Movie soundtracks have detail and impact and clear vocals.

In my opinion.

Paul

hsinnott

11-27-05, 09:17 PM

What's the consensus on this DVD players ability to play dvd-r and dvd+r disks? Oppo's product page says it plays them both, but I want to make sure. Also, will it really only play divx and xvid that are burned on dvd+r, and not dvd-r? Has anybody tested that out?

I've never had a problem- I use Philips DVD-R 8x. These discs are extremely reliable- available at microcenter.com

Bytehoven

11-27-05, 09:23 PM

I've never had a problem- I use Philips DVD-R 8x. These discs are extremely reliable- available at microcenter.com

I haven't had any problems with Taiyo Yuden DVD-R in 2x, 4x & 8x speeds.

eieio

11-28-05, 01:07 AM

Sounds good to me. Vocal and instrumental music sounds fine. DVD-Audio is enjoyably reproduced. Movie soundtracks have detail and impact and clear vocals.

In my opinion.

Paul

I was informed and can confirm that there is no bass management for DVD-A on the Oppo. Without bass management, the DVD-A output will, by definition, be inaccurate as there will not be a proper balance between the bass response and the various channels.

Bass Management is not a luxury of multichannel audio, it is de riguer. the only reason why DVD-Videos' sound "works" is because it is output to the receiver/processor in the digital domain, i.e. digital coax or optical, where the processor/receiver can then perform the bass management function.

with DVD-A, the output is via 6 RCA analog outputs and the receiver/processor cannot perform bass management. the typical workaround is that the "universal player" would perform the bass management in the player itself, prior to outputting the signals through the 6 RCA analog outputs.

it is a disappointment to me, though i can't say much or blame Oppo as the cost of the unit vis-a-vis its performance is pretty good already, the fact that it cannot properly play DVD-A is one of those "oh well, that's really too bad..." type of thing, for me, at least.

i've waited so long for a universal player that has a ratified, digital output to the processor/receiver but i don't believe the industry will adopt a standard anytime soon. i do not wish to buy a unit with a proprietary digital output standard, i.e. the Pioneer, and a couple of others. i personally consider that a bandaid solution and certain not usable with any other brands of processors, so you'll need a Pioneer universal player, AND a Pioneer processor/receiver.

i've been patiently waiting and using my B&K as a temporary wait-and-see solution, but i pretty much have given up hope for any industry-wide digital output solution anytime soon...though people have been rumbling about an HDMI-2 standard coming out soon, who knows when though.

anyone else with insights on this front?

supra712

11-28-05, 01:33 AM

I love this player on my Optoma H31...its very nice looking...the only drawback is the remote since it doesnt glow nor presses lika quality remote.

GSB

11-28-05, 03:59 AM

Wish I could say the same thing. Up until a couple of days ago the Oppo would play ALL my DVD-R's flawlessly. Now I'm having nothing but problems. The video slows down while the audio plays normally, then the video speeds up to catch up to the audio. It does this about once every minute. All burned media exhibit this problem now, even discs that played fine before. All commercial DVD's play fine. This is very distressing. I e-mailed Oppo support and was told that I should probably re-flash the firmware. I did, and now it's even worse. Some of the discs don't even want to load up now. I have no clue as to what could have caused my burned discs to start exhibiting problems. Like I said, commercial discs still play without any problems. I really don't know what to do at this point. I'm very disappointed.This sounds like the known compatibility issue with DVD's recorded on some standalone DVD Recorders.

Or have these DVD-R's been recorded on a PC with Nero or some other software? If so, what software are you using?

dusterscott

11-28-05, 06:12 AM

I was informed and can confirm that there is no bass management for DVD-A on the Oppo. Without bass management, the DVD-A output will, by definition, be inaccurate as there will not be a proper balance between the bass response and the various channels.

Bass Management is not a luxury of multichannel audio, it is de riguer. the only reason why DVD-Videos' sound "works" is because it is output to the receiver/processor in the digital domain, i.e. digital coax or optical, where the processor/receiver can then perform the bass management function.

with DVD-A, the output is via 6 RCA analog outputs and the receiver/processor cannot perform bass management. the typical workaround is that the "universal player" would perform the bass management in the player itself, prior to outputting the signals through the 6 RCA analog outputs.

it is a disappointment to me, though i can't say much or blame Oppo as the cost of the unit vis-a-vis its performance is pretty good already, the fact that it cannot properly play DVD-A is one of those "oh well, that's really too bad..." type of thing, for me, at least.

i've waited so long for a universal player that has a ratified, digital output to the processor/receiver but i don't believe the industry will adopt a standard anytime soon. i do not wish to buy a unit with a proprietary digital output standard, i.e. the Pioneer, and a couple of others. i personally consider that a bandaid solution and certain not usable with any other brands of processors, so you'll need a Pioneer universal player, AND a Pioneer processor/receiver.

i've been patiently waiting and using my B&K as a temporary wait-and-see solution, but i pretty much have given up hope for any industry-wide digital output solution anytime soon...though people have been rumbling about an HDMI-2 standard coming out soon, who knows when though.

anyone else with insights on this front?

I always thought 'bass management' was simply a feature where you select whether your various surround speakers are either small or large. You select 'small' for small speakers that aren't designed to handle high volume, low frequency sounds. For example, I select 'small' for my center channel and rear surround channel speakers, and 'large' for my subwoofer and left and right front tower speakers. So I see bass management as a way to filter out low frequencies - preventing them from reaching small speakers that could be easily damaged. I personally don't use my Oppo for playing DVD-A's as I already have a universal player that plays both SACD's and DVD-A's. I see there are instructions on page 23 of the Oppo's User Manual for setting up speaker size. Are you saying that these settings don't affect playback through the analog cables - only the digital cables? The bass management settings on my home theater receiver only control digital audio signals that are input through the coax or optical audio cables.

dusterscott

11-28-05, 08:55 AM

Toonces T. Cat

11-28-05, 09:01 AM

After watching Shrek on NBC in HD last night, it really hit home how good the Oppo's PQ really is. The picture on NBC looked very good to my eyes, but not much better than what I get when I watch the DVD on the Oppo.

Scott,

IMHO, it actually looks better on the OPPO at 720P on my LCD-RP. I know it's an aesthetic judgement, but the image appears far more film-like on the OPPO to me. In 1080i HD it looks like just another film to video transfer...Yes it is slightly sharper in detail at 1080i but, nonetheless, it is less pleasing to my eye...:D

-Toonces

wes nance

11-28-05, 11:12 AM

dgkp

11-28-05, 11:21 AM

With respect to those running the oppo at 720p with an ae700/ae900 and using PAL discs who are wondering about 2:2 cadence and 50/60Hz--I've been trying a few things on my ae700.

1) I found a scene on a PAL disc which pans across fixed fine writing. If I pause on any single frame the writing is clear, but if I let the pan run it blurs and judders slightly This seems like a good test scene as it's probably not the DVD authoring at stake. It is equally blurry in 576p, 720p and 1080i. I frequently tweaked sharpness on and off as some have suggested that this may kickstart 2:2 cadence.

2) I also checked out the skyscrapers on the PAL DVE. They judder very slightly on all settings. Worse on 576p, maybe slightly the smoothest on 1080i--but with a loss of other image qualities. 720p was the best overall performer.

3) I attached the ae700 to my PC DVI-HDMI running zoomplayer on a fairly basic video card. I used reclock to test various framerates. No matter what framerate I chose (I tested auto, 24, 25 and 30) the same thing happened to the image--i.e., the words were blurry. Also, according to reclock, the ae700 stayed at 60Hz (or 59.664, to be precise) no matter what and I couldn't change the frequency using anything else either.

4) I rehooked up my old progscan sony to the ae700 through component. If you go into the ae700's secret menu and look at selfcheck then the frequencies are Hor. 31.3khz and vertical 50.14hz (or there abouts), which suggests that the ae700 is running a 50 Hz frame rate (These figures do not appear on the HDMI setting which is suggestive.) But pq wise the image of the words is certainly no less blurry, nor are the sky scrapers in the pan shot any less juddery that on 576p on the oppo. Through component the rate for and NTSC disc is 31.5khz and 60.11Hz respectively.

My tentative conclusions: a) the ae700 can be a pretty blurry pj (but beautifful in so many other ways). b) the ae700 only runs at 60hz off of HDMI.

It's just another one of those things, like aspect ratio, which lock out over HDMI. I doubt anything can be done about it. It's likely that the same thing is occurring to the ae900. As the vast majority of users and especially reviewers live in NTSC land it makes no odds to them and thus doesn't get reported. The picture at 720p is just so much better even so that maybe it makes no odds? The old sony looked very flat--though admittedly I didn't recalibrate for pq as that wasn't my aim.

Does anybody who knows more about these things have any comments?

Dave

k-pax

11-28-05, 12:36 PM

My tentative conclusions: a) the ae700 can be a pretty blurry pj (but beautiful in so many other ways). b) the ae700 only runs at 60hz off of HDMI.

Hello Dave.
I have a BBK 971h (european oppo) and ae700. I have mentioned this somewhere before in this or the other tread.
My ae700 shows 750/60 with the oppo (PAL), but with my other DVD player, Toshiba SD-350E the panny shows 750/50 when set to PAL.

I will also mention that i have not the problem with memory loss. I have set my BBK to PAL and Video2.
I have set the brightness to -3, if i change DVD/turn it of etc it stills stays the same. No changes in DVE eighter.
If i understand this correct the brightness should be "darker" not "lighter" if the BBK forgot the setting and I turn the setting from -3 to -2.?
My always turn a bit lighter when i set it from -3 to -2.

Sorry my bad english.. is aint my language.. :o

eieio

11-28-05, 12:46 PM

I wouldn't classify the OPPO as having no bass management in DVD-A, that is a little misleading. The OPPO will crossover the outputs and send the info under 80hz to the sub *if the speakers are set to small*. My preference is to keep my speakers set to large and still have the bottom sent to the sub, but that is not an option at this point.

Even so, DVD-A sounds great on my system with the OPPO. I'm just hoping that they add more elegant bass management in the future, such as the option of running the sub with the mains set to large, or even an adjustable crossover point.

That said, I greatly enjoy dvd-a on the OPPO, and I greatly enjoy dvds on the OPPO.

Wes

While I'm not a high resolution audio expert (i have not yet caved in to a universal player due to the lack of an industry standard digital output), I've been an audio enthusiast for many years.

I believe bass management is far more than setting the speakers up big versus small. Bass management entails using at the minimum, the Radio Shack Analog Sound Pressure Meter (not the digital one), and at your primary seating position, calibrate the distances from each speaker using various test tones.

Without doing that, one's DVD-A system is simply outputting whatever information is encoded, willy nilly, without regard to room size, seating position, etc.

What I brought up above is basically analogous to what one does with 5.1 bass management calibration with regular, DVD-Video. The sound portion's bass management calibration work is almost identical.

Every DVD-A player MUST have bass management because every room and every primary seating position is different.

The chances of "hitting it right" without distance measurements and adjustments is virtually nill.

Anyone else with more extensive experience in DVD-A care to chime in?

dgkp

11-28-05, 01:42 PM

jriihi

11-28-05, 01:46 PM

Yeah oppo PAL support is reported to not work correctly with ae700 or ae900 currently. There are other displays also that doesnt work. I hope they release that PAL fix firmware soon..

Jerm357

11-28-05, 01:53 PM

Does anyone know of any capability issues with the OPPO and a Sony 30XS955? I shure hope not because I ordered one and its suspost to be here on the 30th

justsc

11-28-05, 02:32 PM

Does anyone know of any capability issues with the OPPO and a Sony 30XS955? I shure hope not because I ordered one and its suspost to be here on the 30th
I've got the 34" Sony and it works great with my Oppo. Be prepared to use the "DVI" (or upconversion) at 720p rather than 1080i. I found that at 1080i the image showed some scintillation, and a bit of what I call "left to right pulsing." I've read that these artifacts may be inherent in how the Oppo handles/processes interlaced signals.

Once set to 720p, the PQ is awesome.

dusterscott

11-28-05, 02:35 PM

While I'm not a high resolution audio expert (i have not yet caved in to a universal player due to the lack of an industry standard digital output), I've been an audio enthusiast for many years.

I believe bass management is far more than setting the speakers up big versus small. Bass management entails using at the minimum, the Radio Shack Analog Sound Pressure Meter (not the digital one), and at your primary seating position, calibrate the distances from each speaker using various test tones.

Without doing that, one's DVD-A system is simply outputting whatever information is encoded, willy nilly, without regard to room size, seating position, etc.

What I brought up above is basically analogous to what one does with 5.1 bass management calibration with regular, DVD-Video. The sound portion's bass management calibration work is almost identical.

Every DVD-A player MUST have bass management because every room and every primary seating position is different.

The chances of "hitting it right" without distance measurements and adjustments is virtually nill.

Anyone else with more extensive experience in DVD-A care to chime in?

Doesn't your home theater receiver have provisions for calibrating the audio? In my home theater receiver setup menu, I enter the distance the speakers are from my primary listening location. Then I measure with the RS Analog Sound Meter the sound pressure of the test tones on the Avia calibration DVD to determine where bass, treble, channel volume etc should be set for EACH source (including for EXT IN which is for analog cables coming from my universal player). The only thing I need to be able to do in the DVD Player setup menu is set each channel to small or large speaker. I wouldn't even think of using the Oppo for DVD-A's if I couldn't set LF and LR speakers to large. I use tower speakers with 15" woofers for LF and LR channels.

k-pax

11-28-05, 05:42 PM

Thanks for the information. Was your toshiba also using HDMI? If so my theory ain't worth a bean; if not you missed my pont. Also, you have to change your birghtness by a much greater amount that 2 or 3 points to really notice thedifference--I'm at -8, for example.

Dave

Yes i used HDMI to the toshiba, upscaled to 720p. I use the same cable now and a DVI to HDMI adapter at the 971h.
You are right about the memory loss, if i set the brightness/saturation to an extreme i clearly see the 971h go back to previous settings when i press stop or change DVD. By the way i have oppo firmware d-1022.

The reason i didn't notice that is because it seems that my 971h defaults to brightness -3!?. Thats the value i have set it to since i read this thread and updated my firmware, have calibrated my ae700 with this setting set.
Maybe i miss understanding something here, but if i now set my brightness from -3 to 0, then i see BTB in DVE clearly. (its to bright).
If i then i press the stop button 2 twice and start DVE again. The brightness have changed, and i cannot see the BTB bar, and the brightness seems perfect.
If i then adjust the brightness in the 971h from 0 to -1 and back to 0. The brightness have increased and its to bright. I have to set it to -3 to get back to the right setting.