Originally posted by onay32
"My older Pioneer DVD player in interlaced mode (non-progressive) looks essentially as good as the Oppo. It actually looks better in certain ways."

So Terry, are you saying it's NOT worth replacing my DVD player using the Sony XS. I mean if there is no significant difference using the OPPO, why get it? :confused:

Can I use a DVI cable and use a DVI to HDMI adapter to connect to my TV? :(
Well... it is possible that the Oppo is better than your old DVD player... but then again it might be that you like the picture from your older player. You might just need to check it out in your own home on your set to really know for sure. My main point is... it might not be a huge difference... or no difference at all. I know between my Pioneer and the Oppo, the overall difference is almost nil.

I like the Oppo for playing back Divx files... and I hope, once the sharpness gets tamed down further via firmware updates, that I end up liking the Oppo much more than the Pioneer. At this point, though, they are about equal (each has it's own strengths and weaknesses. The Oppo is slightly sharper, can pass "blacker than black", is region-free, and can play Divx files. The Pioneer doesn't have macroblocking problem and doesn't have the Oppo's "shimmering/flickering" problem well documented in this thread.)

(Remember that the settings/calibration for each input (and for each scanrate) on the Sony XS set is independent. If you set up for 480i over component... you will need to set your set up again for 720p over HDMI. It's a good thing, since each DVD player or cable box or whatnot is unique in the signal it sends... but it means more work calibrating.)

I assume you can use a DVI cable and an DVI-to-HDMI adapter. I can't imagine why not.

-Terry

Originally posted by dropzone7
Is anyone using 1080i through a front projector and getting good results?

OPPO displays 1080i on my Infocus 4805 no problems, although I am currently using 720p as there is less scaling for the PJ. Looks really nice, but I don't know if I could tell the difference between 720p and 1080i. . .

Wes

I have a Optoma H31 projector for display. Unfortunately I will have to run about 25' of DVI to get to it. Does this player kick out strong enough signal or do I have to look somewhere else?

Originally posted by vreath
I have a Optoma H31 projector for display. Unfortunately I will have to run about 25' of DVI to get to it. Does this player kick out strong enough signal or do I have to look somewhere else?

I'm using a 3m DVI to M1 Infocus cable from the OPPO to my 4805 and it's beautiful, no problems at all.

Wes

Originally posted by Kevin Golding
Ordered mine frome Extremephono on 4/15, received 4/18. Used a Pacific Cables 4M DVI cable to hook up to my Toshiba 65H83. At 1080i, the picture slowly scrolls vertically - I've read one other post with the same problem on a Tosh and maybe a couple w/ Hitachi.

Popped in Avia, and couldn't see either of the two moving black bars on the brightness screen. Had to crank brightness to +4 on the Oppo to see them. Got shimmering at 480p on static screens like sharpness and 200 TVL, but not at 720p. Resolution looks much better at 720 also.

Since the Toshiba can only natively display 540p and 1080i, I'd love to see a fix for the scrolling.

If you end up getting the Oppo and having good results, let me know. I essentially have the one year older model of your set (the SWX20B) and some other people's comments about issues with Hitachi sets have worried me a bit.

Im havin a problem hooking up my Oppo to My Sony HS10 thru DVI. In setup I have the display set for Widescreen and I've flipped through the DVI button settings too. Im getting a square picture (4:3) not a 16:9 picture. I even flipped through the DVI settings on my PJ even though you cant adjust much on the DVI settings.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks!

480 mode will send a square picture to the HS10, 720P should be widescreen, and I've not gotten 1080i to work with my HS10.

Originally posted by mflanagan
Im havin a problem hooking up my Oppo to My Sony HS10 thru DVI. In setup I have the display set for Widescreen and I've flipped through the DVI button settings too. Im getting a square picture (4:3) not a 16:9 picture. I even flipped through the DVI settings on my PJ even though you cant adjust much on the DVI settings.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks!

Make sure the OPPO in it's menu is set to Widescreen or Widescreen/sqz (if you want it to pillarbox 4:3 material)

Sounds like you've got that part right, though.

Are you sure the HS10 is set to widescreen? I know on my Infocus I can set it to native, widescreen, and 4:3, and letterbox. Maybe your DVI settings never got set to widescreen?

That's all I can think of. So, just to be clear, the HS10 is a 16:9 PJ, and you're getting a 4:3 image, and your DVD is definitely widescreen? It really sounds like the HS10 is pillarboxing it.

Wes

Wes,
I previously had a Bravo D1 hooked up to it and it worked fine. Im using a Star Wars DVD to test so yes it is widescreen. I looked through all my DVI settings and it doesent give me any options to change as far as squeeze, widescreen ect. it just displays what the DVD player feeds it.

Hmmmmmm.........

Were you running the Bravo at a custom resolution? If so, the PJ would be set at native. You have apect ratio control (or wide modes Sony calls it) on your remote, right? Cycle through them and see if you get a widescreen image.

Wes

Oppo uses the mediatek chip along with the Faroudja. Would it be possible to enable the mediatek chip to deinterlace over component so the player can at least do 480p over component. Sure it may not be Faroudja but the mediatek is still a decent motion adaptive deinterlacer.

To all, please see this post, it might interest you:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5515784#post5515784

Originally posted by LiteUp!
To all, please see this post, it might interest you: Hey, Liteup, nicely done! Those photos will definitely help Oppo to identify and fix the sharpness and shimmering problems! I have analysed images that shimmer, and found that it is DIRECTLY related to the vertical edge segmentation that your pictures demonstrate. I'll elaborate in another post. If you don't mind, I'd like to draw Oppo's attention to your comparison.

One other thing to note: In the pillarbox (4:3) mode, both the Oppo and the Panasonic are losing horizontal resolution and creating mush beyond 400TVL. In Wide mode (16:9) or when zoomed in Wide/SQZ mode, the Oppo will resolve all of the lines, all the way to the end of the pattern.

Gary

Originally posted by f300v10
GSB, I too have an HLP-4674 and should get my Oppo delivered today (ordered 4-15). Any idea if it should have the capacitor fix already, or will I have to send it back to get the fix? All new Oppos already have the hardware fix. At 720p, the picture on your HLP-4674 will be spectacular. Be sure to do a basic calibration of your setup with Avia/DVE. I found my HLP a bit low on red, so I used it's "Color Weakness" feature to boost red to +3. Then I turned color saturation down a little so that Avia's "Color Decoder Check" pattern displays all colors at 0% saturation error.

Gary

Originally posted by Ja Phule
Oppo uses the mediatek chip along with the Faroudja. Would it be possible to enable the mediatek chip to deinterlace over component so the player can at least do 480p over component. Sure it may not be Faroudja but the mediatek is still a decent motion adaptive deinterlacer. No. Oppo has confirmed that it cannot do 480p via component. It's a hardware reason.

Gary

Originally posted by DaEnigma
I personally think there is some problem with 1080i compatibility since we seem to be having more people report this as a problem... can we get oppo to look into this issue further?

FWIW, 1080i is where I find the best pic with th Oppo on my Zenith Plasma; so not all sets are having problems.

Renaldow, that's good to know!
DaEnigma, we'll mention this concern to Oppo Digital anyhow.

Gary

I noticed a scene in the movie "Elektra", that shimmered quite noticeably. The attached photo shows a pillar (column) in the scene that was particularly bad. Note the same segmentation of vertical lines (especially high-contrast lines), that Liteup's pictures demonstrate.

During a slow camera pan, those segments seem to "crawl" up or down as the camera moves. Multiple parallel lines draw attention to this artifact very dramatically; because the segments on all of the lines seem to "crawl" simultaneously as the camera moves. When many lines are doing this at once, the image looks as though it is "shimmering".

I do not know why this segmentation is occurring yet. Perhaps it is related to the Cross-Color Suppression or the Sharpness. Nevertheless, I'm sure it will be relatively simple to fix. Liteup!, thanks again for the comparison with the S97!

Gary

Just ordered the Oppo. I understand that the best connection for the Oppo is using the DVI out from the player. Presently, I have my sat box (Samsung TS-360) connected to my Sony XBR950 via DVI and set to 1080i. I don't want to have to watch TV thru the Oppo all the time. What would be the best setup connection?

Larry

Originally posted by renaldow
FWIW, 1080i is where I find the best pic with th Oppo on my Zenith Plasma; so not all sets are having problems.
The same with me on my Sony 34XBR900.

I could not get 1080i to work with my Z2 either.....it gave me a series of lateral green lines on the screen....not that I would probably ever use 1080i with this display....but I wanted to check it out quickly.

GSB,

No problem...this is why I posted this. Hopefully we can now get Oppo the really see the problem. I'll do some more comparisons in 16:9 vs. pillarbox, to see if I can see the difference. It's nice having both of the players on a DVI switch and two copies of several DVDs!

Originally posted by GSB
Hey, Liteup, nicely done! Those photos will definitely help Oppo to identify and fix the sharpness and shimmering problems! I have analysed images that shimmer, and found that it is DIRECTLY related to the vertical edge segmentation that your pictures demonstrate. I'll elaborate in another post. If you don't mind, I'd like to draw Oppo's attention to your comparison.

One other thing to note: In the pillarbox (4:3) mode, both the Oppo and the Panasonic are losing horizontal resolution and creating mush beyond 400TVL. In Wide mode (16:9) or when zoomed in Wide/SQZ mode, the Oppo will resolve all of the lines, all the way to the end of the pattern.

Gary

Originally posted by LiteUp!
I could not get 1080i to work with my Z2 either.....it gave me a series of lateral green lines on the screen....not that I would probably ever use 1080i with this display....but I wanted to check it out quickly.

Sounds like too long cable or too cheap cable? :)

Actually not....720p works fine...and should require more bandwidth anyway (than 1080i). I am using a very high end DVI cable purchased from RAM. All of my other components work with it as well.

Originally posted by wes nance
OPPO displays 1080i on my Infocus 4805 no problems, although I am currently using 720p as there is less scaling for the PJ. Looks really nice, but I don't know if I could tell the difference between 720p and 1080i. . .

Wes

Thanks Wes. I currently have the SP4800 and Zenith 318. I'm looking into moving up to the 4805 and wondered if the Oppo would be worth the change.

Originally posted by LiteUp!
Actually not....720p works fine...and should require more bandwidth anyway (than 1080i). I am using a very high end DVI cable purchased from RAM. All of my other components work with it as well.

Oppo feeding a Toshiba 46HM84 DLP via DVI to HDMI cable (1 meter length Monster Cable): no problems whatsoever at 480p, 720p, or 1080i. Perhaps we need to identify which display/cable combinations are susceptible to issues?

Will the third time be the charm, or will this post be overlooked again? I've already posted twice here that Oppo's 1080i mode on my TV (Toshiba 57H83) causes scrolling and sparkling. The DVD player has already had the hardware fix and it did not resolve the issue. Other 1080i sources are fine on my TV.

I seriously think that others having problems with their 1080i mode may have the same, unknown root cause. The priority of this problem seriously needs to be raised.

When I communicated with OppoDigital about my DVD player, they provided acknowledgment but were at a loss as to the cause of the problem. I strongly suspect there's something not 100% correct with the 1080i stream that comes out of the Oppo.

But ... I am still 99% happy with my Oppo player and with OppoDigital support.

VideoInSF,

Not overlooked -- just no solution to be found here in the forum. Continue to escalate with Oppo. I've reported it as well.

Sparkling has been reported to be an issue with some cables and displays. I have an issue with 1080i looking like 120p (on a Panasonic TC-22LH1 LCD TV, but not on a Hitachi Plasma) though the picture is steady and locked in place with no sparkles.

Paul

Thanks Paul. I've tried 3 different DVI cables, all under or at 2 meters, ranging from cheap to very expensive without any luck. I'm pretty sure that at some time in the future, this problem will be resolved.

Also, wanted to post that home burnt dual layers DVDs play great on the OPPO. I've tested using both Ritek and Verbatim. No skipping, stopping, and no detectable layer change. That's one of the many reasons why I've kept this player.

Originally posted by GSB
All new Oppos already have the hardware fix. At 720p, the picture on your HLP-4674 will be spectacular. Be sure to do a basic calibration of your setup with Avia/DVE. I found my HLP a bit low on red, so I used it's "Color Weakness" feature to boost red to +3. Then I turned color saturation down a little so that Avia's "Color Decoder Check" pattern displays all colors at 0% saturation error.

Gary

Thanks Gary. I got the unit installed yesterday and it did indeed have the hardware fix, and the picture is indeed great. As far as calibration, I used a disk with the THX optimizer to set the brightness levels, the Oppo was a little darker than my DVB-318. I have yet to purchase a calibration DVD and while I know it has been the subject of much discussion here at AVS, which disk do you prefer to use on your DLP, Avia or DVE?

Thanks,
Joe

Originally posted by dropzone7
Thanks Wes. I currently have the SP4800 and Zenith 318. I'm looking into moving up to the 4805 and wondered if the Oppo would be worth the change.

I think so, as the 318 over DVI locks up with my 4805, and component needs to be re-centered, etc.

OPPO is super clean, no weird issues for me with the 4805, so I'm very happy.

Wes

Originally posted by GSB
One other thing to note: In the pillarbox (4:3) mode, both the Oppo and the Panasonic are losing horizontal resolution and creating mush beyond 400TVL. In Wide mode (16:9) or when zoomed in Wide/SQZ mode, the Oppo will resolve all of the lines, all the way to the end of the pattern.

There really isn't any way to avoid this. The way the pillarbox mode works is to throw out resolution from the source and scale the image into a narrower shape. That detail is gone.

Remember, DVD's 720x480 resolution is natively 4:3 in shape (DVD pixels are not square). The widescreen mode on your display uses that same number of pixels but stretches the image sideways into a 16:9 shape. The pillarbox mode on the DVD player still uses the original 720x480 pixels stretched to 16:9, but scales the active picture content to a lesser horizontal resolution (someone else can do the math) and puts bars on the sides.

Originally posted by wes nance
I think so, as the 318 over DVI locks up with my 4805, and component needs to be re-centered, etc.

OPPO is super clean, no weird issues for me with the 4805, so I'm very happy.

Wes

Same here. The 318 locks up over DVI with 4805. I should be getting the Oppo soon. What I am looking for out of the Oppo is a sharper, very clean and very detailed image without MB and trouble free playback of burned disks.

Something is going on with this company & it is all good.

Just finished exchanging emails & phone calls with people at Oppo.
I am helping a friend with a Home Theater that features a William Phelps JVC HX2 LCOS Front Projector as its center piece. It is still at Mr. Phelps lab being tweaked & calibrated.

Put the info in Mapquest yesterday & lo & behold, Mr. Phelps lab turns out to be 1.2 miles away from Oppo digital headquarters. They agreed to take a DV971 unit over to him which will be calibrated for the HX2 & my hope is that it will be a valuable learning experience for them. Hopefully even better products will emerge. Very cool!!!

From WM:

"If they are really interested in seeing what their dvd player can do they should bring one to me. I'll give them a demo that will knock their socks off...

In any case I'm very interested. Especially since the 971 supports divx, and I can convert HD movies from my Tivo to divx... !!!"

Would it be possible for the Oppo to do custom DVI resolutions like the Momitsu and Bravo (with a firmware update)? Or is it a limitation in hardware/Faroudja that wouldn't allow this? Then again, it is asking for a little too much.

I am not an expert so just throwing out ideas. What is the horizontal resolution on the DVI output? If it's 1920/1080i, 1280/720p, and 852/480p then can the player just pad the 4:3 image to 16:9 in SQZ mode without dropping pixels?

Originally posted by stephenju
If it's 1920/1080i, 1280/720p, and 852/480p

Although the math might seem to suggest otherwise, DVD resolution is not 852x480. It's 720x480 in a 4:3 shape. DVD pixels are not square.

then can the player just pad the 4:3 image to 16:9 in SQZ mode without dropping pixels?

I think I understand what you're suggesting (instead of scaling the 4:3 active portion of the frame inwards, why not keep it as is and add more pixels to the sides), but I don't believe this is possible in a practical sense. 852x480, for example, is not a standard resolution that many displays will support.

News from OPPO;
1) Another Firmware Update in about a month (no, I don't know what it will do.)
2) You can now but the Oppo directly from Oppo www.oppodigital.com/products.asp

Kris-

You noted a roll off in the chroma response on the Oppo. Is this characteristic of the Mediatek? If not, where does in come from and what visual impact does this have, if any. Thansk.

Bob

Originally posted by Josh Z
I think I understand what you're suggesting (instead of scaling the 4:3 active portion of the frame inwards, why not keep it as is and add more pixels to the sides), but I don't believe this is possible in a practical sense. 852x480, for example, is not a standard resolution that many displays will support.

Yes. That's exactly what I mean. And I understand 480p is basically still 4:3. But what about 720p and 1080i? They are standard resolutions.

I just received this player today and I'm using it with a Hitachi 51S500. This is NOT a good match at all, at least in its current state. The macroblocking and shimmering is unwatchable. At 480i, the match is much much better. This Genesis chipset seems to be vastly inferior to the Hitachi capabilities. I will probably hang on to it because the PQ at 480i is still nicer than either my Pioneer 656A or my RP-62. Hopefully these issues with DCDi can be ironed out soon.

BTW I thought I'd reply to the poster who listed the Monster's Inc scenes that showed shimmering. I have seen the same artifacts described with every DVD player I have tried. I don't know. Maybe it's encoded in the movie that way. Or it's something with my set. I can't prove either theory. I will say that I've never seen anything similar on any HDNet movie at 1080i. At any rate, If you have a set similar to mine, be prepared to be very disappointed in this player using DVI.

Originally posted by Josh Z
There really isn't any way to avoid this. The way the pillarbox mode works is to throw out resolution from the source and scale the image into a narrower shape. That detail is gone.

Remember, DVD's 720x480 resolution is natively 4:3 in shape (DVD pixels are not square). The widescreen mode on your display uses that same number of pixels but stretches the image sideways into a 16:9 shape. The pillarbox mode on the DVD player still uses the original 720x480 pixels stretched to 16:9, but scales the active picture content to a lesser horizontal resolution (someone else can do the math) and puts bars on the sides. So what's best for 4:3 material? Send the 4:3 to a 16:9 display as 16:9 and have the display or external scaler squeeze it, or let the DVD player squeeze it and provide the pillarboxes? Intuition tells me let the end device do the squeeze, but not sure.

My Denon 3910 won't auto-pillarbox 4:3 flagged material and I've been whining about it, maybe it's a good thing ;)

Get Gray,

Some displays wont allow for the resizing of upconverted material (or even true HD material) and will remain fixed in 16:9 -- that's one of the big reasons for wanting the "pillarbox" feature in players.

Paul

My Oppo arrived yesterday and I let it sit for a day before installing it today. As I posted earlier, the first review of the machine would be for DVD-Audio quality only. It first needed to best my first-generation built-like-a-tank Technics DVDA-10 in sound quality (esp mulitchannel) before I unpack the Dtrovision converter to test it on my Runco pj.

I initially set it up via component just to be able to navigate the menus and set up the audio correctly. The first glitch came there. In the "downmix" menu screen I attempted to set the machine for 5.1ch in order to set the rear and center speakers, and make sure the multichannel was enabled. The first attempt at doing that resulted in no surround sound and a muffled center channel, along with the inability to reset the center and rears in the menu, regardless of setting (5.1 is the only setting the enables those line items but I tried everything.) They remained grayed out until I unplugged and replugged he machine. All is well and has been since that first and only glitch.

My Technics A10 uses an old MASH 24/192 dac chip, but uses very good op amps and the remainder of the analog circuit is well-made. Conversely, the Oppo uses a much newer (duh!) Crystal 24/192 dac but the rest of the analog stage looks to be spartan. Well, what did I expect for this level of player. Then came the music. I used the following DVD-A's: AIX DVD-A sampler, Donald Fagen's Kamakiriad , Beck Guero, Paul Simon You're The One and a little snippet from the Chesky set-up disc.

The Technics player is plugged into a PS Audio P300 Power Plant (ac regenerator) with a tube multiwave setup. The Oppo was initally plugged into a cheap power strip and then into the wall. The A10 is characterized by a lush sound with a somewhat bloated or exaggerated midbass, but it's a sound I'm used to. I spent about an hour listening to several cuts, the last being from Kamakiriad. Then I switched cables and put the Oppo into play. Jaw-dropping soundstage expansion, jaw-dropping resolution, jaw-dropping micro-dynamics. The only thing missing was the prodigious midbass that I'm used to. So I tried a few other cuts, inclduing the Cello concerto from the AIX demo. Very well-defined, very clean and almost clincal in its precision, but lacking the last octave and a half vs the A10. Hmmm, the Oppo is clearly the king, but damn, it's a bit clinical (not harsh, mind you) and I'd love to have it all.

Then I removed the A10 and plugged the Oppo AC into the PS Audio Power Plant tubed multiwave. Voila. The lowest ocatve is there in spades. The midbass is back and not nearly as exaggerated, but that's probably a good thing; I just need to listen a bit longer. Overall, I am blown away by the sound of this little machine. I'm sure the Denon 3910 trounces it, and my HT system is articulate enough to hear the difference, but at this point in time in the life of hi-rez, blue-ray, etc it just ain't worth it.

My A10 is a great player, is built with incredible quality and has an SDI modded output for video scalers. I will be able to sell it easily for the SDI capability.

Now it's onto the video side of the house to see if my new resident DVD-A player will also become my video source for my crt pj(Dtrovision DVI-to-VGA converter will be unpacked and set up tomorrow). It needs to beat a very simple but rock-solid Modwright modded Sony 999ES with extra large power supply, 480p output. I'm guessing it will go 2-for-2 this weekend. :)

Ted

Great post Ted. Thanks for sharing your DVD-A experience with the Oppo. This is the first A/B comparison on the audio quality front that I've come across. I haven't tested my Oppo with music yet, but after hearing your review I am eager to do so. My Oppo is already plugged into an ExactPower EP15A and, based on your input, I'm glad it is. :)

Mark,

The folks from Oppo paid a visit to my lab this afternoon, and delivered a player. I had just finished an HD2K so I was able to give them a pretty good demo. I don't think they had ever seen anything close to what they saw today.

Too soon to have a good evaluation of the player but so far I like what I see. For high end scaler users they need to add 480i DVI output - they said they would look into this.

Your customer's HX2 is next up; I'm looking forward to trying out the Oppo with the HX2 early next week.

One more thing: this Oppo unit only supports divx in 480i, not 720p or 1080i. Hopefully they will add these in the future...

William

Originally posted by wm
Mark,

The folks from Oppo paid a visit to my lab this afternoon, and delivered a player. I had just finished an HD2K so I was able to give them a pretty good demo. I don't think they had ever seen anything close to what they saw today.

Too soon to have a good evaluation of the player but so far I like what I see. For high end scaler users they need to add 480i DVI output - they said they would look into this.

Your customer's HX2 is next up; I'm looking forward to trying out the Oppo with the HX2 early next week.

One more thing: this Oppo unit only supports divx in 480i, not 720p or 1080i. Hopefully they will add these in the future...

William

for us higher end video processor users i woudl have to agree about having to add 1480i on the dvi side...but then what about the faroudja chip..will it matter at all that it is equiped with it??
i have a vid processor that aslo does sdi..so i m debating to do the dvi route for dvd and sdi for the htpc ...or the oether way around...

basically i m in the market...please add the 480i deallie bob so i can buy one!!!

so please look into it oppo people...

anyhow
thanks

Martin

Originally posted by Ja Phule
Would it be possible for the Oppo to do custom DVI resolutions like the Momitsu and Bravo (with a firmware update)? Or is it a limitation in hardware/Faroudja that wouldn't allow this? Then again, it is asking for a little too much.

For those interested, I got this reply from Oppo about custom DVI support.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. We hear you and will look into this feature. Currently OPDV971H does not support custom resolution because the built-in Faroudja deinterlacing chip does not support it. This is a tradeoff between great video performance and features like custom resolution. Other chipsets do the custom rosolution but do not deliver as good a video performance as Faroudjia. So we have to make a tradeoff there.

We will keep our eyes open checking on the next-gen chips coming up. Our goal is to integrate best of breed from all vendors. We agree custom resolution is a very desirable feature and we are looking for ways to do that.

Originally posted by ted_b
Then I switched cables and put the Oppo into play. Jaw-dropping soundstage expansion, jaw-dropping resolution, jaw-dropping micro-dynamics. The only thing missing was the prodigious midbass that I'm used to. So I tried a few other cuts, inclduing the Cello concerto from the AIX demo. Very well-defined, very clean and almost clincal in its precision, but lacking the last octave and a half vs the A10. Hmmm, the Oppo is clearly the king, but damn, it's a bit clinical (not hrash mind you) and I'd love to have it all.

Then I removed the A10 and plugged the Oppo AC into the PS Audio Power Plant tubed multiwave. Voila. The lowest ocatve is there in spades. The midbass is back and not nearly as exaggerated, but that's probably a good thing; I just need to listen a bit longer. Overall, I am blown away by the sound of this little machine. I'm sure the Denon 3910 trounces it, and my HT system is articulate enough to hear the difference, but at this point in time in the life of hi-rez, blue-ray, etc it just ain't worth it. Ted, thanks for your very informative review. I'm glad to hear that the audio impressed you as much as this. This player does not aspire to beat the best, but it is still able to hold its own.

Gary

Originally posted by Josh Z
There really isn't any way to avoid this. The way the pillarbox mode works is to throw out resolution from the source and scale the image into a narrower shape. That detail is gone.

Remember, DVD's 720x480 resolution is natively 4:3 in shape (DVD pixels are not square). The widescreen mode on your display uses that same number of pixels but stretches the image sideways into a 16:9 shape. The pillarbox mode on the DVD player still uses the original 720x480 pixels stretched to 16:9, but scales the active picture content to a lesser horizontal resolution (someone else can do the math) and puts bars on the sides. Josh, what you have described, is true for an analog connection only.

A DVI display doesn't do any stretching of anamorphic video. At 720p for example, it is expecting 1280x720 square pixels. The DVI player is now responsible for stretching.

Therefore, a DVI player doesn't necessarily have to lose resolution when displaying a pillar-boxed 4:3 image on a 16:9 display. The player could scale the full 720x480 DVD image (non-square pixels) to 960x720 (square pixels), and then add the black side-bars for 1280x720 resolution. That way, no horizontal resolution would be lost.

Unfortunately, when in Wide/SQZ mode, the Oppo (and many other players) use the MPEG decoder to squeeze the image for the analog output, before the Faroudja chip scales the image for the DVI output. That's what causes the loss of resolution.

Gary

hi,

where can i buy this player in europe ? or is it only possible to get this player from oppodigital.com ?

thanks.

WM -

If the Oppo only does Divx via 480i, and doesn't do 480i over the DVI port, does that mean you have to have it hooked up via component to watch Divx files?

GSB -

Some displays will stretch/zoom/etc images coming in over DVI. My Hitachi SWX20B will do use all of it's wide modes via the DVI port, so the TV can do 16:9, 16:9 Zoom, 4:3, 4:3 Zoom 1, and 4:3 Zoom 2. I think 4:3 zoom one is the one to take a non anamorphic picture and display it full screen, and regular 4:3 mode will take a 4:3 picture and pillarbox it in the set. Not sure if the fixed pixel Hitachi sets do this or not.

Originally posted by jello

where can i buy this player in europe ? or is it only possible to get this player from oppodigital.com ?


Jello,

Try to find the BBK equivalent to the Oppo in the US. They are (most probably) the same player except for the scart interface.

Originally posted by Robert Whitehead
News from OPPO;
1) Another Firmware Update in about a month (no, I don't know what it will do.)

Bob
Thanks Bob. I really do hope that they start doing something about the lip-sync issue. For me, this is the biggest issue with this player now. Other than that issue, this player is really quite good. I am otherwise very satisfied with it. It seems to have most everything (and more) than many higher-end products. This should be able to keep me very satisfied until the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray wars have been settled. I just want to not have to stop films in the middle and restart them just have the lips match the sound. Very frustrating ... really takes you out of the story.

thanks RuggeroF,

but i did not find any equivalent for bbk in europe.
i just mailed oppo service about details for europe.

Originally posted by wm
One more thing: this Oppo unit only supports divx in 480i, not 720p or 1080i. Hopefully they will add these in the future...

William
I don't think this is true. I have been able to play Divx/Xvid files on my Oppo via 720p DVI connection without a problem.

-Terry

Jello,
BBK is in several countries in Europe, in Russia the equivalent to the Oppo is the model BBK DV985S, in Sweden BBK DV971H.

Try to find the brand (maybe they are not sold as "BBK") in Germany.

I got my OPPO yesterday and plugged it in via HDMI to my JVC D-ILA and it works great. I love the picture at 720P.

I found one annoyance with this player: it doesn't seem to have any disc memory -- that is, when you power down the player, it does not remember where you left off on the disc, and does not allow you to resume from the prior location.

I guess I just assumed this was a standard feature nowadays, especially since my 5 year old Sony has it.

Hopefully, disc memory is something that can easily be addressed in future firmware updates?

Anybody have an Oppo CCF built yet (Pronto remote control file)? I have built one if needed. PM me (cuz I dunno how to post the file here in this thread).

Ted

Originally posted by RaveD
I found one annoyance with this player: it doesn't seem to have any disc memory -- that is, when you power down the player, it does not remember where you left off on the disc, and does not allow you to resume from the prior location.

Personally, I think this should be implemented carefully. I have a player that remembers your spot on a disc even after you remove the disc. This is a real nuisance for those occasions when I want to demo just one scene and then put the disc away. The next time I try to restart the movie at the beginning it always picks up from the middle and I have to skip all the way back to the first chapter.

If opening the disc tray cleared the memory, that would be better.

Originally posted by GSB
Josh, what you have described, is true for an analog connection only.

A DVI display doesn't do any stretching of anamorphic video. At 720p for example, it is expecting 1280x720 square pixels. The DVI player is now responsible for stretching.

Therefore, a DVI player doesn't necessarily have to lose resolution when displaying a pillar-boxed 4:3 image on a 16:9 display. The player could scale the full 720x480 DVD image (non-square pixels) to 960x720 (square pixels), and then add the black side-bars for 1280x720 resolution. That way, no horizontal resolution would be lost.

Unfortunately, when in Wide/SQZ mode, the Oppo (and many other players) use the MPEG decoder to squeeze the image for the analog output, before the Faroudja chip scales the image for the DVI output. That's what causes the loss of resolution.

What you describe is more an 480i/p vs. upscaling scenario than an analog vs. DVI scenario. There are DVD players that will upscale via component (though not this one).

I see your point. I was thinking of it only from the 480p perspective. In theory what you say could be done, but as you also point out most upscaling DVD players do the pillarboxing before the upscaling.

I spent some more time with my Oppo last night. I had a few friends over to watch a movie with me. We watched "Closer". The edge jagginess I reported earlier (some are calling this shimmering) was really bothering me (it is quite nasty). This is really evident anywhere in the movie that has a large darkness/lightness contrast where a diagonal surface/line is. My S97 has none of this (as I posted above with my screen shots using Incredibles and the AVIA disc). Oppo has something set up wrong in the Faroudja. My S97 is amazing...Oppo still has a little way to go with picture quality. This once again reminds me that a Secret's score really has little to do with watchability and picture quality. The layer change really is non-existent in the Oppo though...that is nice. Come on Oppo....lets get this fixed in the next update.....until then, I'll have to watch movies on my Panny S97, exclusively.

FYI: I have no macroblocking with my Z2 display and the Oppo. I don't have any with the S97 either.

Originally posted by LiteUp!
This once again reminds me that a Secret's score really has little to do with watchability and picture quality. The layer change really is non-existent in the Oppo though...that is nice. Come on Oppo....lets get this fixed in the next update.....until then, I'll have to watch movies on my Panny S97, exclusively.


Contrary to what you expressed, I believe the whole intent of the Secret's score is to rank watchability and picture quality ... by using several different tests that produce measured "unbiased" results. Why even publish these reviews? The bottomline is that one shouldn't use their review as an end-all for making decisions. Factor in user comments and other information that is important to you.

I don't believe there are tests available for macroblocking and shimmering. If there were, then the score of the OPPO would be significantly lower (and the gap between it and the 5910 would widen). For me, macroblocking is more a concern than shimmering. Shimmering is a lot more bearable.

Still, the OPPO is my player of choice for several reasons. I have confidence that the next firmware will address the "shimmering" issue. OPPO is a small company compared to Panasonic, so please give them some time. Their last firmware was great!

Ohhhh...I'm not down on the Oppo. With a little time and all of our comments...and their listening...this player will be near perfect (it's close now). I think there are just some dimensions of a player that are hard to quantify via objective tests like in Secrets. That is all I am saying...and Kris is doing an excellent job.

Originally posted by VideoInSF
Contrary to what you expressed, I believe the whole intent of the Secret's score is to rank watchability and picture quality ... by using several different tests that produce measured "unbiased" results. Why even publish these reviews? The bottomline is that one shouldn't use their review as an end-all for making decisions. Factor in user comments and other information that is important to you.

I don't believe there are tests available for macroblocking and shimmering. If there were, then the score of the OPPO would be significantly lower (and the gap between it and the 5910 would widen). For me, macroblocking is more a concern than shimmering. Shimmering is a lot more bearable.

Still, the OPPO is my player of choice for several reasons. I have confidence that the next firmware will address the "shimmering" issue. OPPO is a small company compared to Panasonic, so please give them some time. Their last firmware was great!


I feel they are both equally distracting and need to go. Until these issues are resolved, I'll be watching at 480i. Unfortunately the component color isn't quite right. I didn't have enough adjustment range with my Hitachi 51S500 to match red saturation with Avia. It's still watchable though and for my set up the superior of the two choices as it now stands. I think it would have been cool to use the Mediatek chip exclusively over component with all its capabilities dialed in and have something better than Genesis for the DVI output. Take Care

On the flipside, there are some other really good things about the Oppo that have not been mentioned yet, that I thought are worthy:

1.) This player seems to play anything you put in it. I have some poorly burned DVD+R DL discs that would not play in my S97 or XP30. They play perfectly in the Oppo. I also have some discs around that have errors on them due to scratches, etc. that have problems in my other players. I tried a few of them, and once again the Oppo breezed right through them.

2.) I can set my display to be DVI-HDCP or DVI-nonHDCP (PC mode) and the Oppo works in either mode. It's very flexible. This is the first source component that I have come across that acts this well with DVI. My HTPC connected via DVI will only work when my display is switched to PC mode. My S97 and Motorola DCT6408 STB will only operate with my display when I have it set to DVI-HDCP compliant mode.

BTW, I have played both Region 1 and 2 discs with no problems on the Oppo as well.

Originally posted by LiteUp!


1.) This player seems to play anything you put in it. I have some poorly burned DVD+R DL discs that would not play in my S97 or XP30. They play perfectly in the Oppo. I also have some discs around that have errors on them due to scratches, etc. that have problems in my other players. I tried a few of them, and once again the Oppo breezed right through them.


Your reason 1 is one of the main reasons why I like this player. I own the Zenith and Momitsu and they have their problems with burnt media.

Well, I guess I'm much more of an audio guy than video, cuz I have way too many video questions. As per my last post the Oppo earned its way into my HT as a DVD-Audio player and now today I've hooked it up via DVI, into the Dtrovision DVI-to-VGA converter and out to my pj via the vga passthru that Petr's transcoder has in it. OK, that's a few connections there.

Well, I played a number of discs on the Oppo at both 480p and 1080i. The alignment timings are off a bit for my pj for 1080i and I'll need to shift the picture a few degrees right if I keep this setting. However, in comparing both 480p and 1080i with the Modwright 999ES 480p via component, the Avia enhanced widescreen resolution test pattern is a no-brainer. The Modwright is almost perfect in that pattern, with resolution, both vertical and horizontal, all the way out. For the Oppo this is not nearly the case. The 1080i looks better than 480p but both are significantly lesss resolving than the Modwright/Sony, and blacks and colors are richer on the Modwright also. ?? As I've said earier, I sold my Momitsu cuz the modded Sony looked so damn rock-solid on my pj, and here it does again. I'm not sure a $250 converter is worth it if I don't see better results.

So, my questions are: what are some clear advanatges of the Faroudja chip over that which is in the 999ES? How will they manifest themselves in movies (if you have examples, I'll rent the movie if I don;t already have it). I mean, I've done the Super Speedway thing and yes, the 999ES shows a moire pattern in the bleachers for 5 seconds. Big deal for me overall, no. Not compared to the better s/n and resolution.

What settings make sure the Oppo can reproduce black-than-black?

If anyone knows the achilles heel of the 999ES lemme know so I can hit it, and compare to the Oppo. Sorry for the dumb questions but currently the Modwright/Sony is staying as my video source until I can learn more about how to evaulate against the Oppo. I'll try dark and shadowy scenes like Bram Stoker's Dracula Superbit next (since Secrets claims the Sony can't do btb).
Confused,
Ted

P.S. Maybe the resolution is due to using pc-level cables (like the DVI cable that Oppo supplies)? I use a similar quality m-to-m VGA cable from the converter to the transcoder/passthru.

Well i just ordered this unit this morning cus my momo is on its last leg i think.....what is this lip sync issue??/is it with front proj only??also a few posts back a guy said he hooked this unit up to his jvc via hdmi is this possible???dvi from player to hdmi to display???

ps-im going to get a dvi switcher also so i can compare oppo to first gen. momo........

DVI->HDMI is possible with adapter/cable. Video information only.

Paul

Thanks paul nice to know.......been eyeing a hitachi lcd 70"...vs810....

Originally posted by f300v10
Thanks Gary. I got the unit installed yesterday and it did indeed have the hardware fix, and the picture is indeed great... I have yet to purchase a calibration DVD and while I know it has been the subject of much discussion here at AVS, which disk do you prefer to use on your DLP, Avia or DVE? Joe, sorry I forgot to answer this. For an HD set, like DLP, DVE is much newer and cleaner than Avia, but Avia has a few patterns that DVE does not have, and is a little more user-friendly. DVE is also less expensive. I like them both.

Gary

Originally posted by NulloModo
Some displays will stretch/zoom/etc images coming in over DVI. That's true, my newer DLP also allows stretching and zooming. But many displays, including my older DLP, and my LCD DVI monitor, do not allow it. So it's left up to the player.

Gary

Originally posted by ted_b
Well, I guess I'm much more of an audio guy than video, cuz I have way too many video questions. As per my last post the Oppo earned its way into my HT as a DVD-Audio player and now today I've hooked it up via DVI, into the Dtrovision DVI-to-VGA converter and out to my pj via the vga passthru that Petr's transcoder has in it. OK, that's a few connections there. Ted, you covered a lot of ground in your post. I'll try to take on some of your questions:

Originally posted by ted_b
Well, I played a number of discs on the Oppo at both 480p and 1080i. The alignment timings are off a bit for my pj for 1080i and I'll need to shift the picture a few degrees right if I keep this setting. However, in comparing both 480p and 1080i with the Modwright 999ES 480p via component, the Avia enhanced widescreen resolution test pattern is a no-brainer. The Modwright is almost perfect in that pattern, with resolution, both vertical and horizontal, all the way out. For the Oppo this is not nearly the case. The 1080i looks better than 480p but both are significantly lesss resolving than the Modwright/Sony, and blacks and colors are richer on the Modwright also. ?? As I've said earier, I sold my Momitsu cuz the modded Sony looked so damn rock-solid on my pj, and here it does again. I'm not sure a $250 converter is worth it if I don't see better results. I do not know the 999ES, so I cannot make any comparisons. The Oppo resolves the 4:3 and 16:9 resolution patterns perfectly, but only in Wide mode. I must point out though, that currently, the vertical lines look more jagged than they should be. Oppo will hopefully fix that soon (via firmware). Are you using the Wide/SQZ mode for 4:3 material, like Avia? Unfortunately, when in Wide/SQZ mode, the Oppo (and many other players) use the MPEG decoder to squeeze the image for the analog output, before the Faroudja chip scales the image for the DVI output. That causes a loss of resolution. It is better to use Wide mode and let your display add the pillar-box bars. Alternatively, you can zoom to 1.5x in Wide/SQZ mode. Oppo is looking into a solution.

As for the richer blacks and colors: To make a fair comparison you need to do a basic display calibration when swapping players. Especially important, are; brightness, contrast, and saturation (Avia's "Color Decoder Check" pattern). There may well be differences in black level and color saturation between these two players.
Originally posted by ted_b
What settings make sure the Oppo can reproduce black-than-black? If you're using DVI, the Oppo always passes blacker-than-black (no settings necessary).

Originally posted by ted_b
I'll try dark and shadowy scenes like Bram Stoker's Dracula Superbit next (since Secrets claims the Sony can't do btb). You can't see blacker-than-black on a correctly calibrated display, but some players that do not pass btb, introduce extra black crush, which is noticeable.

Originally posted by ted_b
P.S. Maybe the resolution is due to using pc-level cables (like the DVI cable that Oppo supplies)? I use a similar quality m-to-m VGA cable from the converter to the transcoder/passthru. No.

Gary

Very tempted by the Oppo - but am wondering if there's a way around one system kink I'd run into ...

I have a Sharp PGM-M20X DLP projector and it has a single DVI input. This input can take component video via a cable adapter (i.e., the DVI port can take an analogue signal).

If I used an Oppo going straight to the projector via a digital DVI cable, I'd have to run HDTV and other video sources into the S-Video inputs on the projector (have a Comcast HDTV cable that uses component video outputs).

Is there a video switcher that I could plug the Oppo, the Comcast HDTV and other video sources into that could send each signal to the Oppo via a single dual (digital/ analogue) cable, plugged into the Sharp M20X's DVI port?

Can a DVI cable connector carry either analogue or digital ...or are they totally different and not compatible?

Something that would take all the signals, and digitize the HDTV, allow the Oppo's digital signal to pass through, would work, I think (?) Would something like a DVDO Iscan do this for me?

If important, the M20X projector's DVI is not compliant with the new copy protection protocal (which is fine with the Oppo).

Anyone been in this situation and found a good solution?

Thanks.

The Lumagen HDP scaler will allow you to take two DVI inputs and output one, I use this for my setup (HTPC, Momitsu DVD ) on DVI, and COX HDTV cable on component HD and Xbox on Component HD. It's a great scaler and has made it possible to run just one DVI cable to my PJ, which saves a ton.

Cytocycle, ...that's very good news that what I'd need/want can be done.

The Lumagen machines I saw from a quick google were all HDCP ( copy protection protocol on the DVI), which would trip me up - my projector is 2 or 3 years old and the DVI port isn't HDCP compatible.

So now I will search for something like the Limagen that isn't HDCP, ...or perhaps I can find an older Lumagen and see what they were doing before their HDCP compliant models came out.

Thanks for the useful info, M.

You can turn the HDCP compliant off, just an FYI, your cable box will be HDCP only on the DVI, that's why I run Component HD since even with my projector having HDCP it will not sync up over DVI with my PJ. Also the Lumagen totally cleaned up the crappy HDTV from my Cable company.

Ask some of these questions in the processor forum!

Gary,
Thanks for the detailed reply. Yes, I am using "wide" mode always, because of that issue you brought up earlier in the thread (I tried to do enough reading on this thread to go into this thing somewhat ready). I agree that the black level and color issue is unfair due to quick-calibration of the Oppo. I will spend some time there. My HT (see gallery) is a front proj and I need to do most color and black eval in the evening when the theater is darker than now. I use darkening fabric blinds, but ambient light is still a problem during calibration, not really an issue when watching casually.

I watched a number of things last night, especially dark scenes. I don't see much of a difference between the players. I didn't drag out DVE or Avia for white blanace, contrast setup though. Maybe my eye isn't good enough on these things, though, because I can't really detect any chroma problem with the 999ES (using Toy Story, etc.) and yet Secrets spanked it for that.

I will tweak some more tonight, using the calibration discs. I'll report back. Thanks,

Ted

Originally posted by Josh Z
Personally, I think this should be implemented carefully. I have a player that remembers your spot on a disc even after you remove the disc. This is a real nuisance for those occasions when I want to demo just one scene and then put the disc away. The next time I try to restart the movie at the beginning it always picks up from the middle and I have to skip all the way back to the first chapter.

If opening the disc tray cleared the memory, that would be better.
I agree ... the only kind of memory I find useful is single disc memory, and only while the disc is still in the player. I use this often when we don't watch a movie in one sitting.

Seems to me this should be doable with a firmware update.

Deleted.

Does this player play DIVX HD (720 and 1080 resolutions) using lager than 2 GB AVI files on DVD-Rs? Thanks.

USG

I just got the Oppo with the 412 firmware, and here are some problems I found:

1) Image is "shaking" at 1080i, but fine at 480p. (My display is Mits WS-48515, which has native 480p/1080i support, I use 15ft DVI-to-HDMI "High-End" cable from RAM)

2) Divx files get badly out of sync when I fast-forward to the end of the movie (I use coaxial connection for the audio which came with the Oppo)

3) Some Divx files with VBR-mp3 audio work fine for the first 5-8 sec, and then start having audio go on and off rapidly, while the video is normal.

Are these issues currently known, or I should contact Oppo about them?

I can report the zoom function on the Oppo is definitely working much better than the Panny S97. No blurriness with the Oppo.

Originally posted by gevorg
I just got the Oppo with the 412 firmware, and here are some problems I found:

1) Image is "shaking" at 1080i, but fine at 480p. (My display is Mits WS-48515, which has native 480p/1080i support, I use 15ft DVI-to-HDMI "High-End" cable from RAM)




I just picked up a 6ft high end DVI cable to see if the 1080i sync and jitter/shaking was improved. Alas the problem still exists... It is also odd I email oppo at the same time I posted here about my problem but have not received a response but they could be overwhelmed.


Please see my post from the past.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5506715#post5506715

I have three questions:

1 - where is the best/cheapest place to buy the Oppo?
2- I have a Viewsonic PJ755D projector, it does not have HDMI or HDCP - will I run into problems if I use a DVI cable? I don't quite understand the HDMI/HDCP thing
3 - how is the audio quality? this is of incredible importance

All you need is DVI. The Oppo is unique in that it will work with HDCP and non-HDCP compliant displays. There are only a couple of places to get the Oppo......extremephono.com works with Oppo closely and is pre-loading the ones they sell with the latest firmware. If you look through the thread here, you will see a lot of recent discussion about audio quality....everyone seems very impressed.

my DVI cable would have to be 23' long tho... will I lose a lot of video quality because of that (i heard 5m is max)? I'm going to be getting a high-quality bluejeanscable one if that makes a difference.

I see that Kris and several others are pushing for Oppo to turn off the cross color suppressor feature, but wouldn't a better solution be making it selectable on/off via a user menu option? I don't how difficult this would be for them to implement, but the CCS feature does have benefits with some types of viewing material. Watchers of Japanese animation, for one, have found that with badly mastered material it can help noticably in cleaning up the picture.

GSB, it would be great to see this on your "wishlist" if it isn't already there. I'd hate to see the CCS feature disappear completely since it can be helpful to some people. I'm playing a waiting game with the Oppo until I receive my new plasma display in June. I'm hoping the next firmware will have told the tale by then. :)

Originally posted by Yahmoncool
I have three questions:

1 - where is the best/cheapest place to buy the Oppo?
2- I have a Viewsonic PJ755D projector, it does not have HDMI or HDCP - will I run into problems if I use a DVI cable? I don't quite understand the HDMI/HDCP thing
3 - how is the audio quality? this is of incredible importance

I wrote an DVD-audio-based review (analog outs only) a page back or two. However, I compared it to my old Panny/Technics A10 DVD-A player, a first generation unit that wasn't that tough to beat. I do have a good audio system, so although I compared it older tech, I know good audio. It's pretty good for it's price, and then some . Can't compare to the Denon units (2910, 3910) or another lower end DVD-A though.

Ted

Hello,

I installed my player today, and on the 1080i output all I get is vertical lines. The projector worked fine on other players on this output.Has anybody else had this problem??

Thanks for your reply,


rmlowz

I just got the Oppo with the 412 firmware, and here are some problems I found:

have you tried the new 4/13 firmware??

Originally posted by deez
I just got the Oppo with the 412 firmware, and here are some problems I found:

have you tried the new 4/13 firmware??

Actually, the new 4/13 firmware is the 412 firmware. OP971-2-0412 more exactly.

My DVI cable is 10 meters long and made by RAM. I don't have any problems with it using several source components. You won't lose any quality....this is a digital connection.

Originally posted by Yahmoncool
my DVI cable would have to be 23' long tho... will I lose a lot of video quality because of that (i heard 5m is max)? I'm going to be getting a high-quality bluejeanscable one if that makes a difference.

I have just installed Blue Jeans cables (30 ft component, and a 30 ft DVI-D to HDMI and ran my first test and found no problems at this length. Their cables are a high quality and the people at BJ are vary knowledgeable and will discuss what makes a good cable and what is just good marketing hype.

I'm sure less quality cables could work at the distances I have, but I just did not have the time to waste, to run test and hold up the construction crew on such a small % of the total cost of the HT.

I have the Infocus 10 meter M1 to DVI cable. So far I have no problem with Infocus 4805.

all right then... well I was going to go with the Denon 1910... I'm pretty much set on the oppo now.

I found out that mine will ship on 4/30 cant wait!!!!

Now im going to buy a 4x1 dvi switcher

Originally posted by checklst
I have just installed Blue Jeans cables (30 ft component, and a 30 ft DVI-D to HDMI and ran my first test and found no problems at this length. Their cables are a high quality and the people at BJ are vary knowledgeable and will discuss what makes a good cable and what is just good marketing hype.

I'm sure less quality cables could work at the distances I have, but I just did not have the time to waste, to run test and hold up the construction crew on such a small % of the total cost of the HT.

What projector are you using?

reaper

Hello,

I called Oppo today and they said they are aware of some displays not being able to take a 1080i input. They said they are working on it and will be fixed with a firmware update. This will take place I think around the fall of 2009.

rmlowz

Originally posted by rmlowz
I called Oppo today and they said they are aware of some displays not being able to take a 1080i input. They said they are working on it and will be fixed with a firmware update. This will take place I think around the fall of 2009. Why do you say that?

Gary

I updated the defect list and moved it to the end of the thread today.

FIXED:
4:3 "pillarbox" mode to support widescreen TV's without that option.
DVI output defaulted to 480p after shutdown, instead of recalling the last user setting.
Loading tray did not close when pressing the power off button on the unit (worked fine from the remote).
Some displays experienced white sparkles over DVI for the first few minutes after power-up. This problem disappeared after the Oppo had warmed up, and had nothing to do with the cable. Some displays (like Samsung DLP) even experienced severe picture corruption, with vertical scrolling, squeezing, splitting, zigzagging, offsets, snow, or strange colors. This was a simple hardware fix. DVD-Audio support on the analog outputs.
DVI Y/C delay (caused chromatic aberration).
DVI pixel cropping - 2 on top and 5 on the right.
Brightness, Contrast, Saturation and Sharpness controls were mislabeled and working incorrectly.
A PAL DVD, output to a PAL TV in 720p or 1080i, refreshed at 60Hz, instead of 50Hz.
Backward chapter-skip button skipped to the PREVIOUS chapter rather than to the beginning of the chapter you were currently watching.
On-Screen-Display in Zoom and Angle modes remained on screen indefinitely.
1080i signal sync problem with certain displays.
Gary

I gave Oppo Digital as much extra detail as possible, including examples and photographs where appropriate. Thank you all for your input. Oppo was very grateful, because it makes it easier to reproduce some of the more elusive defects. Please continue to give solid details, examples, or proof if you have a complaint (including your equipment, connections used, place on disk, etc).

Thanks.

Gary

Gary,

Can you add discrete remote commands for power on and off to the wish list please? Thanks.

Make sure Faroudja's “TrueLife Detail Enhancement” feature is enabled (or selectable via menu). This is a priority defect if it is disabled.

I vote for selectable. If not, leave it off. I've evaluated the TrueLife enhancement with a Toshiba MT700 projector (where it's adjustable) and even the minimum setting adds edge enhancement. It's really noticeable with resolution test patterns.

GSB,

Thank you very much for compiling the list. I'm happy that the 1080i issue is at the top of the list. Hopefully, this will make it a priority.

Someone posted a few days ago that Oppo expected to release another firmware upgrade in about a months time. Do you know if this is a rumor or if they do expect to?

Thanks again,
Vince

Thanks GSB. Glad to see the sharpness control is almost at the top of the list. A large # of users have complained about this. Hope fix will be in the next firmware update.

Hello,

Sorry GSB I was a little frustrated when I got off the phone with Oppo. They have been a very good company taking care of a lot of the issues and am sure they will take care of the 1080i issue.

rmlowz

Excellent work GSB! I agree MikeSRC....let's leave adjustability in with TrueLife and the cross-color suppressor. Let us have a switch to enable/disable either of them. And how about some MPEG DNR features like the S97?

Thank You for listing the problems with the component output. I would like to use component on certain occasions. If macroblocking is bad on a particular title, I could just jump to the next input and let my set do the D/Scaling. Oppo has come this far, they might as well go all the way.

I wasn't aware the Oppo did not pass BTB over component. Are there any other tests that it doesn't pass using the core tests from Secrets? ie pixel cropping?

Does anyone know how to get the Oppo to go into DVD-Video mode? This is required if one wants to access certain music videos on the DVD-Video portion of a handful of DVD-A disc, or the DTS or DD tracks (although clearly less resolving than the lossless tracks over on DVD-Audio). Most DVD-A players have a video mode switch somehwere in their menus. Can't find it with the Oppo, and have tried changing audio setups, etc. No go, always defaults to DVD-Audio. Thx,

Ted

gsb:

Another nice feature would be a screensaver that came on in stop/pause mode....certainly all the aforementioned issues are more important but a ss would be a very,very, nice touch.....

Originally posted by deez
gsb:

Another nice feature would be a screensaver that came on in stop/pause mode....certainly all the aforementioned issues are more important but a ss would be a very,very, nice touch.....

It has one! Not sure all the criteria that triggers it, but stop and pause are two that I know of. It's turned on or off in the general setup screen (maunual page 22)

Ted

Using a DVI connection to my Sony HS10 I'm getting jaggies in all DVI settings (720,1080). Is this a known issue for the Oppo? I did a search but came up empty.

Thanks
Flan

Thanks for compiling all this Gary, you're one of the main reasons why we're getting such good response times from Oppo, I think.

Thanks guys. I'm glad to help - this is an awesome little player, and Oppo is awesome to deal with.

I've included the additional requests.

Gary

Originally posted by VideoInSF
Someone posted a few days ago that Oppo expected to release another firmware upgrade in about a months time. Do you know if this is a rumor or if they do expect to? I'm not sure. Oppo is trying hard to keep the firmware updates regular - every month or two, but obviously, some of these defects are no simple matter to fix (through no fault of Oppo's either)!

Gary

Originally posted by MikeSRC
I vote for selectable. If not, leave it off. I've evaluated the TrueLife enhancement with a Toshiba MT700 projector (where it's adjustable) and even the minimum setting adds edge enhancement. It's really noticeable with resolution test patterns. Mike, this doesn't surprise me in the least. I've escalated this to the defect list, under sharpness/EE.

Gary

Originally posted by Ja Phule
I wasn't aware the Oppo did not pass BTB over component. Are there any other tests that it doesn't pass using the core tests from Secrets? ie pixel cropping? Secrets did not test the component connection, because the component outputs do not support progressive playback. Check Paul's Oppo Brain Dump thread. Pixel cropping is always an unavoidable issue with analog connections. Only DVI can do the full DVD resolution without any cropping (the Oppo has none).

Gary

Originally posted by ted_b
Does anyone know how to get the Oppo to go into DVD-Video mode? This is required if one wants to access certain music videos on the DVD-Video portion of a handful of DVD-A disc, or the DTS or DD tracks (although clearly less resolving than the lossless tracks over on DVD-Audio). Most DVD-A players have a video mode switch somehwere in their menus. Can't find it with the Oppo, and have tried changing audio setups, etc. No go, always defaults to DVD-Audio. Ted, I don't know. This may be another item for the wish-list? Anyone else?

Gary

Originally posted by mflanagan
Using a DVI connection to my Sony HS10 I'm getting jaggies in all DVI settings (720,1080). Is this a known issue for the Oppo? No it's not a known issue. How bad is it? Give us more detail. Are you comparing with another upscaling player?

See "DVI Shimmering" (item 4) on the defect list... High-contrast, near-vertical lines currently have slightly exaggerated jagginess - at least until firmware corrects it.

Also, this player doesn't do 2:2 cadence at all, so a relatively small number of DVD titles (especially european) will look jagged.

Gary

Thanks for the reply GSB.

I replaced my Bravo D1 is DVI with the Oppo using DVI. I didnt have this problem on the Bravo. I was watching the Empire Strikes Back and in interior shots where there were lots of sharp verticle lines, I was getting what looked like jagged edges. Almost like you needed to turn on Anti-ailiasing (like in a video game). It was most noticable on lighter objects.

Other than this the player is really nice IMO.

Thanks again!
Flan

After installing the 412 firmware, if I open the tray and remove a disc and then close the tray, the unit becomes unresponsive and I cannot open the tray until I power the unit off and on. In other words, the tray will only open in a "no disc" condition immediately after power on.

For music cd's, I would like a random or shuffle option, so the tracks play in random order.

Oh.....for the wishlist, make a 500 disk Changer :D

I installed this player last night on an InFocus 4805 via the IF 30m M1/DVI cable. It came with the 412 firmware installed. So far, pretty nice, and better than the Samsung and Denon DVI players I've tried. I also tried the Bravo D2, but couldn't get a DVI picture out of either sample before they stopped turning on.

The picture seems clearer and sharper than the Panasonic XP-30 via component I've been using for the past year on this pj, this is the main difference.

I do definitely notice the "shimmering" artifact. In certain movies, like the Superbit "Fifth Element", it's all over the place. In others, like "Monster's Inc.", it's occasional on vertical features/lines like the background window frames in the restaurant scene. Never had anything like this on the Panasonic.

I haven't seen any "macroblocking" at all on any disc.

480p looks as good or better than the HD resolutions.

After installing the 412 firmware, if I open the tray and remove a disc and then close the tray, the unit becomes unresponsive and I cannot open the tray until I power the unit off and on. In other words, the tray will only open in a "no disc" condition immediately after power on.

Same here, really quirky. When I "eject", the player closes by itself very quickly (caught a disc halfway in once) and seems to shut off, completely unresponsive. Sometimes needs a couple power cycles to wake up again.

I notice that the picture is smaller than with my component feed and no longer overlaps my screen border. I have no control of size either on the player or on the DVI input with the 4805. Is this because the player is "mapping" to the 720 horizontal pixels on the DVD and not the 854 horizontal elements on the chip? Silly? Naive? Comments?

In all, I like the player. The things that I don't like should be able to be fixed via firmware (certainly the shimmering can). The macroblocking issue I see described apparently can't be fixed via firmware, but I don't see it at all on my display.

I was watching Peter Gabriel: Growing Up Live yesterday and the macroblocking was so incredibly bad as to render the disc unwatchable. In every scene, on any background with a solid color (particularly blue) the macroblocking was horrendous. It was like watching a very poorly compressed video file on my PC.

I understand the Faroudja is the source of the problem, and I thought I could live with some macroblocking, but I never thought it would be this bad. (I'm using the DVI output to my JVC D-ILA display at 720P.)

It definitely seems as if this is more than the typical macroblocking of the Faroudja -- as if there is some kind of edge enhancement enabled that is magnifying it. Could it be that the Sharpness control (unable to set it to "off") and/or "TrueLife Detail Enhancement" and/or "Cross Color Suppression" are making the macroblocking worse than it needs to be?

In other words, is there any hope that a forthcoming firmware update will significantly reduce the macroblocking? If not, I'm afraid I will have to return this player.

Originally posted by RaveD
I was watching Peter Gabriel: Growing Up Live yesterday and the macroblocking was so incredibly bad as to render the disc unwatchable. In every scene, on any background with a solid color (particularly blue) the macroblocking was horrendous. It was like watching a very poorly compressed video file on my PC.

I understand the Faroudja is the source of the problem, and I thought I could live with some macroblocking, but I never thought it would be this bad. (I'm using the DVI output to my JVC D-ILA display at 720P.)

It definitely seems as if this is more than the typical macroblocking of the Faroudja -- as if there is some kind of edge enhancement enabled that is magnifying it. Could it be that the Sharpness control (unable to set it to "off") and/or "TrueLife Detail Enhancement" and/or "Cross Color Suppression" are making the macroblocking worse than it needs to be?

In other words, is there any hope that a forthcoming firmware update will significantly reduce the macroblocking? If not, I'm afraid I will have to return this player.

If what you've said is based on viewing only that once DVD, then the problem is most likely that single DVD. The Faroudja macroblocking issue only maginfies the macroblocking/compression artifacts that are already present in the DVD. If it looks that bad it's because it's a badly encoded disc or the video source is bad to begin with. The Faroudja only puts a magnifying glass on the defects already present in the DVD.

If it looks that bad it's because it's a badly encoded disc or the video source is bad to begin with. The Faroudja only puts a magnifying glass on the defects already present in the DVD.
That's why it's referred to as the macroblock enhance bug.

Another thing I've noticed is thumping through my sub when I change chapters. This is with DD/Toslink.

Could it be that the Sharpness control (unable to set it to "off") and/or "TrueLife Detail Enhancement" and/or "Cross Color Suppression" are making the macroblocking worse than it needs to be?

As others have said, if it only happens on certain disks, it's the disk that's the main problem. Neither the TrueLife enhancement (which appears to be off anyway) nor the CCS should have anything to do with the macroblocking.

CCS only adds flickering to highly saturated colors. It was developed to prevent smearing of adjacent colors due to poor MPEG decoding. It shouldn't be a problem with most movies (animation movies are where it's most often seen), but should be either off or have the ability to be turned on and off.

Anyway, looking forward to putting one of these players through its paces shortly. The new shipment may be at Oppo later today, tomorrow at the latest. The new ones are shipping set to Region 1, so if you want to have a region-free model you'll have to use the region free hack posted here (http://www.videohelp.com/dvdhacks.php?select=OPPO+OPDV971H).

Originally posted by Xcalibur_255
If what you've said is based on viewing only that once DVD, then the problem is most likely that single DVD. The Faroudja macroblocking issue only maginfies the macroblocking/compression artifacts that are already present in the DVD. If it looks that bad it's because it's a badly encoded disc or the video source is bad to begin with. The Faroudja only puts a magnifying glass on the defects already present in the DVD.



We understand the issue and why it's happening. What we can't fathom is how a 60.00 dollar player can display an extremely pleasing image and have no sign of this encoding artifact, while a company reigning as one of the supreme designers of de-interlacing chipsets can be excused from the same standard. Please don't be offended, but this particular offering from Faroudja can only be considered a failure and I'm perplexed that anyone would come to its defense. Sadly, an otherwise promising player is handicapped by a true under-achiever.

I think the reason some defend it is because they do not have the problem on their displays. This problem is display dependant, after all.

Originally posted by Xcalibur_255
If what you've said is based on viewing only that once DVD, then the problem is most likely that single DVD. The Faroudja macroblocking issue only maginfies the macroblocking/compression artifacts that are already present in the DVD.
Understood, and I don't see macroblocking to the same extent on other DVDs (though I do see it on several).

Panasonic has been successful at reducing macroblocking in their S97 ... so my question is, can we expect that Oppo will make similar firmware tweaks in the future? Or, should I assume that I'm stuck with the current degree of macroblock enhance?

If it is the latter I don't know if I can justify keeping this player ... my wife asks why did we spend over $200 if the picture looked better on our 5-year old Sony at 480i? I clearly see the improvement in overall picture quality with the Oppo, but I guess I was too optimistic when it came to macroblocking.

Originally posted by LiteUp!
I think the reason some defend it is because they do not have the problem on their displays. This problem is display dependant, after all.

Thank You LiteUp. I respectfully say to that?...Not a marketing statement I'd want to make. I feel like the person who proclaimed "The Emporer has no clothes". (Obscure reference warning :) ).

Originally posted by GFletch
We understand the issue and why it's happening. What we can't fathom is how a 60.00 dollar player can display an extremely pleasing image and have no sign of this encoding artifact, while a company reigning as one of the supreme designers of de-interlacing chipsets can be excused from the same standard. Please don't be offended, but this particular offering from Faroudja can only be considered a failure and I'm perplexed that anyone would come to its defense. Sadly, an otherwise promising player is handicapped by a true under-achiever.

I do agree with you. There have been theories offered up as to why the 23xx series Faroudja chips have this issue while the 2200 series didn't. Of course that's a comparison between 480p only there. On the other hand, the Faroudja chip produces images with higher detail than your average $60 player, macroblocking enhance bug set aside, so it's not entirely it's fault that it's revealing flaws in the dvd encode.

Originally posted by MikeSRC
I vote for selectable. If not, leave it off. I've evaluated the TrueLife enhancement with a Toshiba MT700 projector (where it's adjustable) and even the minimum setting adds edge enhancement. It's really noticeable with resolution test patterns.

Yep Mike, get that fixed and I'm on it, back in the Oppo camp.

GSB keep pushing the priority button. :)

Quote #1:
"After installing the 412 firmware, if I open the tray and remove a disc and then close the tray, the unit becomes unresponsive and I cannot open the tray until I power the unit off and on. In other words, the tray will only open in a "no disc" condition immediately after power on."

Quote #2:
"Same here, really quirky. When I "eject", the player closes by itself very quickly (caught a disc halfway in once) and seems to shut off, completely unresponsive. Sometimes needs a couple power cycles to wake up again."

Question:
Has anybody else experience these problems? I thought I had a bad unit, but apparently I'm not alone. My problem is: Some times when I open the tray either from eject button on the player or the remote, the tray quickly closes itself and the player became non-responsive. I have to power cycle, sometimes a few times, before the player can work correctly. This happens after I updated 412 firmware. Any ideas? Do I have a bad unit?

Originally posted by GFletch
What we can't fathom is how a 60.00 dollar player can display an extremely pleasing image and have no sign of this encoding artifact, while a company reigning as one of the supreme designers of de-interlacing chipsets can be excused from the same standard. What surprises me most, is that Faroudja proudly bears its name on millions of TV's and players that suffer with macroblock-enhance and lip-sync issues, and they do not seem to care one bit about fixing the chip, or even notifying design engineers up-front and coaching them on firmware work-arounds. See, the reason is, most consumers blame the manufacturer for these defects, not Genesis/Faroudja. Pity. If Genesis had to deal with the end consumers, they'd be fixing the issues in a hurry, or landing in court.

However, I must add, for the record, that every single time I see macroblocking on this player, I can play that same DVD in any of my 3 analog players, and see the macroblocking at 480i (even on a hokey old CRT with composite connection)! The macroblocking is harder to see, of course, but it's there alright! The worse the equipment or connection, the less noticeable it becomes, because of the dithering-effect of noise.

So, as far as macroblocking goes, I blame the mastering studios more than anyone! Many DVD's are compressed beyond belief, with fullscreen and widescreen versions of the movie, multiple languages, and hours of mindless special features jam-packed onto a single disk (sometimes even a single layer). The resulting picture really SUCKS! And macroblocking is only ONE of the ghastly artifacts that come for free with a disk like that. Good DVD transfers have no sign of macroblocking whatsoever... even on a Faroudja player, like the Oppo.

Gary

Originally posted by RaveD
I was watching Peter Gabriel: Growing Up Live yesterday and the macroblocking was so incredibly bad as to render the disc unwatchable. In every scene, on any background with a solid color (particularly blue) the macroblocking was horrendous. It was like watching a very poorly compressed video file on my PC.

I understand the Faroudja is the source of the problem, and I thought I could live with some macroblocking, but I never thought it would be this bad. (I'm using the DVI output to my JVC D-ILA display at 720P.)

It definitely seems as if this is more than the typical macroblocking of the Faroudja -- as if there is some kind of edge enhancement enabled that is magnifying it. Could it be that the Sharpness control (unable to set it to "off") and/or "TrueLife Detail Enhancement" and/or "Cross Color Suppression" are making the macroblocking worse than it needs to be?

In other words, is there any hope that a forthcoming firmware update will significantly reduce the macroblocking? If not, I'm afraid I will have to return this player.

Today I watched the same video (Growing Up Live, PG) on my Oppo and my better-picture-to-date Modwright Sony 999ES and experienced no such macroblocking or noise at all, on either one. I use 1080i and 480p on the Oppo, via DVI (with Dtrovision vga converter) and 480p via component (via Petr's outstanding transcoder) on the 999ES. My pj is a Runco 930 fp. In fact, the picture was outstanding, with slightly better colors on the Oppo but slightly better resolution and black level on the 999ES. Nitpicking, though....both showed this very difficult video (lots of dark movements, fog, high contrast lighting, etc) to look very good.

Not saying you are crazy, just pointing out that these issues are VERY display dependent.

Ted

"Question:
Has anybody else experience these problems? I thought I had a bad unit, but apparently I'm not alone. My problem is: Some times when I open the tray either from eject button on the player or the remote, the tray quickly closes itself and the player became non-responsive. I have to power cycle, sometimes a few times, before the player can work correctly. This happens after I updated 412 firmware. Any ideas? Do I have a bad unit?"


I have the same problem since going to 412 firmware. It doesn't happen if I let the unit warm up a minute or two before opening the tray. Really no big deal. It appears to be at least partially firmware related, so it should be fixable by Oppo.

Originally posted by ted_b
Today I watched the same video (Growing Up Live, PG) on my Oppo and my better-picture-to-date Modwright Sony 999ES and experienced no such macroblocking or noise at all, on either one. ....both showed this very difficult video (lots of dark movements, fog, high contrast lighting, etc) to look very good.

Not saying you are crazy, just pointing out that these issues are VERY display dependent. Fascinating!

Originally posted by RanmA
Quote #1:
"After installing the 412 firmware, if I open the tray and remove a disc and then close the tray, the unit becomes unresponsive and I cannot open the tray until I power the unit off and on. In other words, the tray will only open in a "no disc" condition immediately after power on."

Quote #2:
"Same here, really quirky. When I "eject", the player closes by itself very quickly (caught a disc halfway in once) and seems to shut off, completely unresponsive. Sometimes needs a couple power cycles to wake up again."

Question:
Has anybody else experience these problems? I thought I had a bad unit, but apparently I'm not alone. My problem is: Some times when I open the tray either from eject button on the player or the remote, the tray quickly closes itself and the player became non-responsive. I have to power cycle, sometimes a few times, before the player can work correctly. This happens after I updated 412 firmware. Any ideas? Do I have a bad unit? vjren was the first to report an issue like this. I suggested reflashing the firmware, and he reported that it solved the tray problem. EDIT: But he just changed that report here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=5542940#post5542940)

Burn a fresh disk - at a slow speed to avoid possible corruption. If that doesn't do it, you could try following Oppo's "Do It Yourself Instructions A". I've done that numerous times myself, and it worked just fine.

Gary

Well, i just sold one to a customer who is hooking it up to a mits 61" plasma..........and i will hopefully get mine by next wed........

vjren was the first to report an issue like this. I suggested reflashing the firmware, and he reported that it solved the tray problem.

Burn a fresh disk - at a slow speed to avoid possible corruption. If that doesn't do it, you could try following Oppo's "Do It Yourself Instructions A". I've done that numerous times myself, and it worked just fine.


Really? Even if mine came from Oppo with the latest firmware already installed?

Certain discs (Incredibles) default to friggin' subtitles, even when they're "off".


I should note again that the picture really is noticeably clearer than with the XP30, and a few nits need to be taken care of. If nothing else, it seems an ideal unit for mating with a 4805...which seems rather macroblock-resistant. I may regret this, but can someone point out a specific scene/disc I can look at for this?


Also, DVD-Audio is splendid! The only other DVD-A player I've used was the Samsung 841, and on that one it didn't sound much better than DD. This one, however, clearly presents the superiority of the format. More detailed, enveloping...beautiful.

Originally posted by Jack Gilvey
Also, DVD-Audio is splendid! The only other DVD-A player I've used was the Samsung 841, and on that one it didn't sound much better than DD. This one, however, clearly presents the superiority of the format. More detailed, enveloping...beautiful.

I didn't think that the Oppo played DVD-A other than 2-channel. :confused:

I'm writing a review for this player in AUS.

The Lip sync and shimmering/crawling vertical line issues would be deal breakers for most.

I'd love to leave them out of the review alltogether :)

With that in mind, does anyone have any inside info as to whether the firmware being worked on will address this and when it might be expected?
I'd love to hold of on posting the review until I know these issues are resolved, but I have to get it out there.

Cheers
PCKeys

Originally posted by MikeSRC
I didn't think that the Oppo played DVD-A other than 2-channel. :confused:

Why would you think that? There has never been a stereo-only DVD-A player made, I don't believe. SACD, yes ( I owned two of the Sony originals that were stereo-only b4 owning the XA777Es and now the Modwright), DVD-A, no.

Also, my review a page or two back (not that you had to read it) talked almost exclusively about multichannel DVD-A (i.e analog multichannel).

Ted

Sorry, I didn't see your review. Glad to hear it does play multi-channel DVD-A.

Some DVD players can play the 2-channel track found on many DVD-As. It doesn't make the player a DVD-A player though.

For my first foray into large screen home theater, I am going to invest in the Optoma H31 DLP projector and possibly this highly reviewed Oppo DV971H.

Questions:
1. Will the DV971H match the H31's pixel size of 854 x 480, via the DVI input?
2. Would there be any problems with having DVI to HDMI adaptors on both the projector and dvd player and running a long HDMI cable?

Thanks for any help you folks can give.

For those of you that are complaining about lip-sync issues.....are you using the 5.1 audio out (via RCA connectors for some reason)? Because I have never had any lip-sync issues at all with mine and optical audio connected to my Denon AVR-5800 DTS receiver. Just curious...

Originally posted by albo75
For my first foray into large screen home theater, I am going to invest in the Optoma H31 DLP projector and possibly this highly reviewed Oppo DV971H.

Questions:
1. Will the DV971H match the H31's pixel size of 540 x 480, via the DVI input?
2. Would there be any problems with having DVI to HDMI adaptors on both the projector and dvd player and running a long HDMI cable?

Thanks for any help you folks can give.

The Oppo cannot do custom resolutions and pixel map the 854x480 resolution of the Optoma H31 (and 4805). It is not a feature supported by the faroudja chip.

Not too sure about #2.

Originally posted by ted_b
Why would you think that? There has never been a stereo-only DVD-A player made, I don't believe. SACD, yes ( I owned two of the Sony originals that were stereo-only b4 owning the XA777Es and now the Modwright), DVD-A, no.

Also, my review a page or two back (not that you had to read it) talked almost exclusively about multichannel DVD-A (i.e analog multichannel).

Ted

Actually Panasonic has made several stereo only DVD-A players. Just FYI.

Originally posted by Kris Deering
Actually Panasonic has made several stereo only DVD-A players. Just FYI.

I stand corrected. Wasn't aware of them, not like the onset of SACD when the format was initially stereo-only. Sorry.

Ted

Originally posted by Ja Phule
The Oppo do custom resolutions and pixel map the 854x480 resolution of the Optoma H31 (and 4805). It is not a feature supported by the faroudja chip.

Not too sure about #2.
Sorry, I made a mistake with the H31 pixel numbers. The correct size is of course what you mentioned, 854x480. I've corrected this in my original post.

Thank you for the information.

Originally posted by LiteUp!
For those of you that are complaining about lip-sync issues.....are you using the 5.1 audio out (via RCA connectors for some reason)? Because I have never had any lip-sync issues at all with mine and optical audio connected to my Denon AVR-5800 DTS receiver. Just curious...

Using strinctly coax (also tried optical) same result.

Originally posted by LiteUp!
For those of you that are complaining about lip-sync issues.....are you using the 5.1 audio out (via RCA connectors for some reason)? Because I have never had any lip-sync issues at all with mine and optical audio connected to my Denon AVR-5800 DTS receiver. Just curious... LiteUp, I use optical audio out, and still run into this problem occasionally. Certain disks seem to trigger the problem and others don't. "Pirates of the Caribbean" is one that sometimes does (not always). The problem is very random and impossible to reproduce, but once it occurs, the video never catches up and sync remains bad until you pause and resume play.

The special features on DVD's often trigger the problem - possibly because the soundtrack is non-5.1, as someone else suggested, or perhaps because the video content is particularly tricky (lots of video-to-film transitions, mixed flags or something else). If I remember correctly, the featurette on “The Incredibles” was really bad, often triggering this problem immediately after resuming play.

Gary

Originally posted by pckeys
I'm writing a review for this player in AUS.

The Lip sync and shimmering/crawling vertical line issues would be deal breakers for most.

I'd love to leave them out of the review alltogether :)

With that in mind, does anyone have any inside info as to whether the firmware being worked on will address this and when it might be expected?
I'd love to hold of on posting the review until I know these issues are resolved, but I have to get it out there. PCKeys, that's a bummer. Can you edit the review later... or tell them to watch this thread for fixes?

Definitely explain how eager Oppo Digital has been to work with us to fix any defects. They've already done a tremendous job, in just a few months! I don't know what they are currently working on, but I certainly don't think the lip-sync issue will be fixed in a hurry... it's a Faroudja issue that will require the intervention of Genesis engineers. (Same goes for macroblocking). Note that shimmering only seems to affect high-contrast edges, not all vertical lines. I don't think that one will be too difficult to fix at all.

Gary

Originally posted by GSB
PCKeys, that's a bummer. Can you edit the review later... or tell them to watch this thread for fixes?

Definitely explain how eager Oppo Digital has been to work with us to fix any defects. They've already done a tremendous job, in just a few months! I don't know what they are currently working on, but I certainly don't think the lip-sync issue will be fixed in a hurry... it's a Faroudja issue that will require the intervention of Genesis engineers. (Same goes for macroblocking). Note that shimmering only seems to affect high-contrast edges, not all vertical lines. I don't think that one will be too difficult to fix at all.

Gary

Problem is the review is for about 30 eager beavers who are awaiting my opioions on the player before I organise a powerbuy for them. I will be the sounding board for any of them that are unhappy with the results if they decide to give it a go. I've already added that Oppo has been exceptional in its endevours to resolve any issues that have come up. I've also added that the shimmering should be easy to fix.

Think I'll just have to lay it all on the table and they can decide themselves

cheers

Originally posted by Jack Gilvey
Really? Even if mine came from Oppo with the latest firmware already installed? Yes, Oppo reflashes the firmware the same way we do, and some units may hiccup into a strange mode.
Originally posted by Jack Gilvey
If nothing else, it seems an ideal unit for mating with a 4805...which seems rather macroblock-resistant. I may regret this, but can someone point out a specific scene/disc I can look at for this? "Hotel Rwanda" (an excellent movie), unfortunately has a bad dose of macroblocking throughout. It can be seen in the mist, and on background walls and floors. The scene in chapter 21, time 1:40:28 and onward, is the worst. There are hideous pink and green blocks moving and pulsating all over the beige-colored wall on the right side of the picture. But bear in mind, they are visible (slightly) on ANY good player/TV setup - even analog 480i. If your display is susceptible to Faroudja's macroblock enhance, it will be truly ghastly - you cannot miss it!

"Princess Diaries 2" was another bad DVD.

Originally posted by Jack Gilvey
Also, DVD-Audio is splendid! The only other DVD-A player I've used was the Samsung 841, and on that one it didn't sound much better than DD. This one, however, clearly presents the superiority of the format. More detailed, enveloping...beautiful. Glad to hear it!

Gary

Concerning tray eject problems, the reburning of a disc wasn't the solution.

Send a mail to support @ oppodigital . com and explain your problem, they will send you a new firmware (which has automatic disc close after powerdown disabled = cause of problem)

I guess I have the latest firmware :)

Troubles I detect, although GSB said scaling was all right, why is it that with a V880 I can get a 1:1 pixel picture on my matterhorn DLP with full 576TVL while with 971H it is not 1:1 at all but scaled.
(I will make pictures later)

On my test disc (Peter Finzel) with the video test, the 200TVL pattern has blocks that are disturbed.
(I can make a video) V880 and S97 play that just fine.

And as known 2:2 cadence testing reveals it is not supported. Not a big issue.

I am psyched! I just saw that the next shipment of units came in and they are processing back orders...
I paid for mine back on the 19th, so I sure hope I make the cut and they ship my unit from this batch?
Otherwise, the next shipment isn't due in till the 15th of May. :(

GSB,

Is it possible your receiver is causing this (processing delay on the audio stream)? I have NEVER had this problem...and I have already watched numerous DVDs.

Originally posted by GSB
LiteUp, I use optical audio out, and still run into this problem occasionally. Certain disks seem to trigger the problem and others don't. "Pirates of the Caribbean" is one that sometimes does (not always). The problem is very random and impossible to reproduce, but once it occurs, the video never catches up and sync remains bad until you pause and resume play.

The special features on DVD's often trigger the problem - possibly because the soundtrack is non-5.1, as someone else suggested, or perhaps because the video content is particularly tricky (lots of video-to-film transitions, mixed flags or something else). If I remember correctly, the featurette on “The Incredibles” was really bad, often triggering this problem immediately after resuming play.

Gary

Originally posted by ted_b
Today I watched the same video (Growing Up Live, PG) on my Oppo and my better-picture-to-date Modwright Sony 999ES and experienced no such macroblocking or noise at all, on either one.

...

Not saying you are crazy, just pointing out that these issues are VERY display dependent.

Ted
That's good to hear ... I'm holding out hope that with DVE or Avia I can tweak my picture settings to minimize the macroblock enhance. My fear is that the JVC D-ILA is just one of those displays that just doesn't get along with the Faroujda.

I'll also give 480p a shot to see if that's a workaround for badly macroblocked discs.

I had the same experience as you on the dark scenes -- actually, that is where I was expecting to see macroblock or other artifacts, but there were none to be found. The Oppo performed very well on those scenes ... it's the solid colors where the macroblock was so obvious as to be fatally distracting.

Originally posted by GSB
What surprises me most, is that Faroudja proudly bears its name on millions of TV's and players that suffer with macroblock-enhance and lip-sync issues, and they do not seem to care one bit about fixing the chip, or even notifying design engineers up-front and coaching them on firmware work-arounds. See, the reason is, most consumers blame the manufacturer for these defects, not Genesis/Faroudja. Pity. If Genesis had to deal with the end consumers, they'd be fixing the issues in a hurry, or landing in court.

However, I must add, for the record, that every single time I see macroblocking on this player, I can play that same DVD in any of my 3 analog players, and see the macroblocking at 480i (even on a hokey old CRT with composite connection)! The macroblocking is harder to see, of course, but it's there alright! The worse the equipment or connection, the less noticeable it becomes, because of the dithering-effect of noise.

So, as far as macroblocking goes, I blame the mastering studios more than anyone! Many DVD's are compressed beyond belief, with fullscreen and widescreen versions of the movie, multiple languages, and hours of mindless special features jam-packed onto a single disk (sometimes even a single layer). The resulting picture really SUCKS! And macroblocking is only ONE of the ghastly artifacts that come for free with a disk like that. Good DVD transfers have no sign of macroblocking whatsoever... even on a Faroudja player, like the Oppo.

Gary




Indeed! Fortunately I was treated to a bit of eye candy last night with "Riding the Bullet" from Lion's Gate. This is how it's supposed to be done. If there were compression artifacts, they escaped me and I was hawking for 'em pretty hard. In fact this film, poorly mastered, would have been a torture to watch. A wooden rollercoaster, lattice on the house, vertical lines in the wallpaper, staircase railings...all were smooth and solid with no movement or shimmering. I did spot just a smidge of movement with a shawl that had some pretty complex detail, but it locked down rather quickly. You know what's really a bummer? I only thought about it this morning. Only about 10% of my movie collection is well done.



Well...maybe a little more than that.:)

Originally posted by LiteUp!
GSB,

Is it possible your receiver is causing this (processing delay on the audio stream)? I have NEVER had this problem...and I have already watched numerous DVDs.

LiteUp!, I see the video delay bug as well, just as GSB describes. It's not there and then it is. A quick stop/play will usually get the audio back in sync. Also its not the audio being delayed, its the video, so I don't think the receiver has anything to do with it. I have the exact same problem with my Zenith DVB-318, and it has the same Faroudja chip as the Oppo.

I've never had this problem with my Panny S97 either. Wouldn't this be a problem with the MPEG decoder....and not the scaler/deinterlacer?

I get the audio delay also, but it seems to only happen on 2.0 material, not 5.1 I'm using coax, and have tried optical. It occurs randomly, and doesn't seem to happen as much as it used to, actually.

How did the Oppo get such high marks on the Benchmark with all these problems? Did Kris Deering get a specially tweaked unit?

dsmith: What they test for and how is clearly spelled out in the benchmark. Most of these issues do not relate directly to the tests that were performed on the unit. You have to keep in mind that this is a hot item and is under the microscope. Every unit that gets scrutinized like this has it's share of problems, including the players that cost much more.

Originally posted by dsmith901
How did the Oppo get such high marks on the Benchmark with all these problems? Did Kris Deering get a specially tweaked unit? My list of firmware defects looks worse than it is. Only a few are critical, and most of them show up under special circumstances. Oppo Digital fixed about a third of the previously documented defects in the last firmware upgrade. They're making fantastic progress, and keeping in regular contact with me, and a few others, to identify and fix the rest of the issues.

Gary

Originally posted by LiteUp!
I've never had this problem with my Panny S97 either. Wouldn't this be a problem with the MPEG decoder....and not the scaler/deinterlacer? No, if it was the MPEG decoder, you would see the lip-sync issue over component too. Its a DVI (deinterlacing/scaling) issue only. Panasonic, Denon and Samsung are some of the manufacturers who have worked with Genesis/Faroudja to fix it. Samsung's players and DLP TV's (with Faroudja processing) suffered with this affliction for some time, until their engineers consulted with Genesis. The problem has since been fixed.

f300v10 was correct - it is a VIDEO delay - the receiver isn't the cause.

Gary

Gary,
I know you say that Oppo is very responsive. I emailed them twice about my inabaility to get the machine to go into DVD-V mode, the latest this morning, and nothing...not even an email saying "thanks, we'll get back to you." Now I know you are spearheading the communication and consolidation of fixes for firmware, and that makes sense, but I hope they haven't deemed you the only one worthy of response. Mine is just an undocumented how-to, I think, something a paid customer is right to inquire about.

Ted

Ted, sorry to hear that. Ever since the "Secrets" test, they have been swamped. They will get back to you, I'm sure. If it is indeed an issue that requires a fix, it may be a while before they can get to it. Other issues are getting priority for now, due to the number of people experiencing those issues - and perhaps complaining.

Gary

enjoy the great oppo support while it lasts, cuz you people are gonna run them ragged and then they will turn into Cyberhome(non-existent support) :D

Loopy, you may have a point. They were already ragged after the last firmware release. They had been working around the clock!

People, take it easy on Oppo! Patience is a virtue!

Gary

Originally posted by vjren
Concerning tray eject problems, the reburning of a disc wasn't the solution.

Send a mail to support @ oppodigital . com and explain your problem, they will send you a new firmware (which has automatic disc close after powerdown disabled = cause of problem)

I guess I have the latest firmware :)

Troubles I detect, although GSB said scaling was all right, why is it that with a V880 I can get a 1:1 pixel picture on my matterhorn DLP with full 576TVL while with 971H it is not 1:1 at all but scaled.
(I will make pictures later)

On my test disc (Peter Finzel) with the video test, the 200TVL pattern has blocks that are disturbed.
(I can make a video) V880 and S97 play that just fine. vjren, thanks for correcting your information about the tray eject problems. You may want to go back and fix that post of yours.

As for the 1:1 pixel mapping... you say you're using a resolution of 576TVL? PAL? If so, you may be right... very few of us are looking at PAL. Please give us more detail, so that someone could confirm the problem you're seeing. Tell us more about the equipment, the disk, the connection and the Oppo settings.

What do you mean by, "the 200TVL pattern has blocks that are disturbed"?

Gary

Another important thing about macroblocking... if your display suffers with this affliction, be sure to fully calibrate the display to the Oppo's output. It can make a world of difference, as I discovered on my Samsung DLP! Most especially, use the full range of the display's contrast ratio to reduce the severity of macroblocking and banding.

Gary

Troubles I detect, although GSB said scaling was all right, why is it that with a V880 I can get a 1:1 pixel picture on my matterhorn DLP with full 576TVL while with 971H it is not 1:1 at all but scaled.

Are you talking about pixel mapping with custom resolutions? The momitsu can do this, the oppo cannot.

Originally posted by GSB
As for the 1:1 pixel mapping... you say you're using a resolution of 576TVL? PAL? If so, you may be right... very few of us are looking at PAL.

I think he is talking about 1024x576 native resolution of Matterhorn. Nothing to do with PAL.

As far as displays go......how about a hitachi 57s500??

anyone have an unusually bad amount of macroblocking on this display at 1080i over dvi???

Did lip-sync issue came out after the firmware 412? Why nobody said anything about it before? I wouldn't bought the Oppo yet if I knew about its lip-sync issue. I don't mind waiting for months for other problems to be fixed, like shimmering, macroblocking, and even 1080i shaking, but lip-sync issue makes the Oppo unwatchable now. I hope it will be fixed in the next two weeks or so, otherwise I will have to return the Oppo.

i agree...maybe a patch firmware to the new one for individuals who have this problem.....

Originally posted by gevorg
Did lip-sync issue came out after the firmware 412? Why nobody said anything about it before? I wouldn't bought the Oppo yet if I knew about its lip-sync issue. I don't mind waiting for months for other problems to be fixed, like shimmering, macroblocking, and even 1080i shaking, but lip-sync issue makes the Oppo unwatchable now. I hope it will be fixed in the next two weeks or so, otherwise I will have to return the Oppo.
What lip sync issue are you referring to?

The only problem I know if is an intermittent, random issue where the video suddenly gets delayed with respect to the audio. Hitting Stop and then Play clears it. It happens infrequently (I personally haven't seen it but I haven't had the Oppo for long).

Are you referring to some other new issue with lip sync?

Originally posted by RanmA
Quote #1:
"After installing the 412 firmware, if I open the tray and remove a disc and then close the tray, the unit becomes unresponsive and I cannot open the tray until I power the unit off and on. In other words, the tray will only open in a "no disc" condition immediately after power on."

Quote #2:
"Same here, really quirky. When I "eject", the player closes by itself very quickly (caught a disc halfway in once) and seems to shut off, completely unresponsive. Sometimes needs a couple power cycles to wake up again."

Question:
Has anybody else experience these problems? I thought I had a bad unit, but apparently I'm not alone. My problem is: Some times when I open the tray either from eject button on the player or the remote, the tray quickly closes itself and the player became non-responsive. I have to power cycle, sometimes a few times, before the player can work correctly. This happens after I updated 412 firmware. Any ideas? Do I have a bad unit?

If you are getting the unresponsive hang-ups when closing the tray, try to use the remote control to close the tray. When Oppo implemented "Close tray when power off", this function resulted in this ill effect: apparently, the machine could somehow mistakenly and power itself off when the tray is closed. Using the remote sends a different IR code and could solve the problem until the next FW fix.

Originally posted by GSB
CURRENT DEFECTS:Does not automatically display the DVD subtitle-set containing the translation for brief foreign dialog. DVD’s like Hidalgo and Star Wars have this extra subtitle. Oppo defaults to ALL subtitles OFF.
Someone in this thread recommended going to the setup of a DVD before playing the movie and choosing "no subtitles", and the Oppo would display those brief extra subtitles (as seen in Star Wars Episode II DVD)... and it works.

Obviously it would be ideal if the Oppo just automatically did that without having to go into a DVD's setup menu, but at least I know how to make it work.

(Should still get fixed, though...)

-Terry

Well, good news/bad news. Oppo responded to my email (good news).

This is their exact response to my asking how to put the Oppo in video mode so that it could load a DVD-Audio disc as DVD-Video, thus making the video folder contents (DTS, Dolby Digital tracks, some videos) available:

Hi Ted,

We are not aware of such a support by OPPO but we are contacting our expert to confirm this so please stand-by.

Best Regards,

Customer Service
Oppo Digital, Inc.

(bad news)

:(

This makes no sense. Luckily I have another DVD player if I need to do this, but it's very disappointing to find the mfg doesn't even know what I'm talking about. It's ironic, cuz just the past few days I've helped a couple of folks on other threads in this forum find that video mode in their Denon and Panny players. My A10 does it through the standard setup menu. Argh!

Ted

Originally posted by Xcalibur_255
dsmith: What they test for and how is clearly spelled out in the benchmark. Most of these issues do not relate directly to the tests that were performed on the unit. You have to keep in mind that this is a hot item and is under the microscope. Every unit that gets scrutinized like this has it's share of problems, including the players that cost much more.

Right. Every player (or any AV device) sucks and is a piece of garbage when it's drilled down to like it is in this thread. You read too much and you won't want to buy anything.

This is all about fine tuning a fine player. I think that most people that have never heard of this forum could buy the Oppo and think it's the best player in the world.

Originally posted by GSB
Another important thing about macroblocking... if your display suffers with this affliction, be sure to fully calibrate the display to the Oppo's output. It can make a world of difference, as I discovered on my Samsung DLP! Most especially, use the full range of the display's contrast ratio to reduce the severity of macroblocking and banding.


Yes! People need to do this everytime they get a new player, but they don't. If you properly calibrate your set with the Oppo, about the only macroblocking you are going to see is what's been mastered on the disc. It's not the Genesis chip. Oppo actually has much less macroblocking than any other player using the same notorious Genesis chip.

There are a lot of badly mastered DVDs out there, the Oppo is just showing you what was put on the disc.

@GSB and others concerning resolution.

What are your testresults on a 480TVL pattern, a pattern in a resolution of 480 horizontal lines, thus an indication for vertical scaling. I all show up correct, you either have a high def display, on a 480 display, what is the result?

On my PAL 576TVL pattern, it doesn't look optimal, sure no 576P vertikal 1:1 pixel mapping, this seems to inflict a loss of detail. Getting every dvd source line 1:1 on my display is giving the best results, though now that's not really optimal on the oppo. My V880 dows that better now.

How about the zoom function. Wouldn't it be a great function to have a 2-4 % (horizontal) zoom so you can fill your screen when the dvd source has not fully used the 720P wide pixel space, giving me borders. Even leaving out potential carbage on the sides.. (this is very usefull, particularly when vertical scaling is 480 or 576 exactly)

The 200TVL boxes on the VIDEO deinterlace test in the peter finzel dvd have like 9 lines horizontal. Now if the sequence is running, on the sides of that box you get blocks that are disturbed. I'll see if I can make pictures..

From vjren-
How about the zoom function. Wouldn't it be a great function to have a 2-4 % (horizontal) zoom so you can fill your screen when the dvd source has not fully used the 720P wide pixel space, giving me borders. Even leaving out potential carbage on the sides.. (this is very usefull, particularly when vertical scaling is 480 or 576 exactly)

I was actually hoping for an upscale resolution to 768p, which I could have sworn has been requested. Zooming for anyone that has a 768 native display just takes the 720p image and makes it worse even though it fills the screen.

This is one of the reasons I bought the player, after reading the thread it seemed like would have been in this past firmware fix. Zooming is not the same as upscaling.

-Alex

I called renaldow on this in another thread but the Oppo has the SAME EXACT amount of macroblocking as any other player with the 2310 chip in it except the Panasonic S97. If your TV can show it and it bothers you, then it's bad. I tested six DVD players in December on my Hitachi 51 inch CRT RPTV and the macroblocking was identical to the Panasonic S97 (pre-firmware update) and Denon 1910. I did not see macroblocking on the Toshiba V-592 but it did have one of the worst pictures I've ever seen, so I suspect it was faulty (it was like trying to watch a projector in daylight and I couldn't adjust it out.)

Well that is good news as i have a hit crt rptv.....

Originally posted by renaldow
Oppo actually has much less macroblocking than any other player using the same notorious Genesis chip.
Many users report the Panasonic S97 has less macroblocking than any other Faroujda player, including Oppo. Obviously they've tweaked something (that I hope Oppo can tweak as well).

On that note, the Panasonic S77 is finally released with the same street price as the Oppo. The battle continues...

Heck... I just want to get mine...

I already have a Denon 3910 and just sold my Onkyo SP1000, and both of those $1400+ units had problems of equal or greater magnitude than the Oppo apparently has?

Originally posted by renaldow
Right. Every player (or any AV device) sucks and is a piece of garbage when it's drilled down to like it is in this thread. You read too much and you won't want to buy anything.

This is all about fine tuning a fine player. I think that most people that have never heard of this forum could buy the Oppo and think it's the best player in the world.

I think that's exactly right. It's all about persective. We're trying to get that last 10% here, while the player is 90% perfect right now I think.

Originally posted by ted_b
This makes no sense. Luckily I have another DVD player if I need to do this, but it's very disappointing to find the mfg doesn't even know what I'm talking about. Hey Ted, that was a customer service agent, not an engineer. Obviously the Oppo doesn't support that mode for now, so it has to go on the defect list, and the engineers need to be made aware of the problem and the desired solution. I'll take care of that later today. How do the other players handle that situation? The more detail you can give, the easier, and quicker it will be for the firmware engineers to fix.

Gary

Originally posted by gevorg
Did lip-sync issue came out after the firmware 412? Why nobody said anything about it before? I wouldn't bought the Oppo yet if I knew about its lip-sync issue. I don't mind waiting for months for other problems to be fixed, like shimmering, macroblocking, and even 1080i shaking, but lip-sync issue makes the Oppo unwatchable now. I hope it will be fixed in the next two weeks or so, otherwise I will have to return the Oppo. Lip-sync was on the defect list right from the beginning. It occurs very seldom, except with some DD2.0 audio tracks.

Gary

Well, im really glad that these bargain basement high performing dvd players have such great support...can you imagine what the nest gen. oppo will have and do and be and cost???

Anyway mine should be here today or tomorrow, and i will be running it thru its paces when i get it to see what if any abnormalities it has....my 1st gen. momo is still good allthough i do experience ocasional freezes[for a short time]in certain movies such as the incredibles......and i also hope thgat the remote does not conflict with my elite receiver....


gsb:

I know it is not a major issue , or problem, but what are the chances of a screensaver that comes on when in stop or PAUSE[DONT FORGET THIS!!!] mode??? The momo has one but it does not come on in pause mode which really kills the whole idea of a screensaver.....just curious

Originally posted by GSB
Hey Ted, that was a customer service agent, not an engineer. Obviously the Oppo doesn't support that mode for now, so it has to go on the defect list, and the engineers need to made aware of the problem and the desired solution. I'll take care of that later today. How do the other players handle that situation? The more detail you can give, the easier, and quicker, it will be for the firmware engineers to fix.

Gary

Thx Gary. Most (Denon, Panny) do it through a setup menu, usually in the misc category. It 's called "player mode" in the Denons ( setup menu category of misc/extras; Denon 3910, page 45; Denon 5900, page 40) and it toggles between audio/video. In the Panny's, like my A10, it's called DVD-Video mode, and toggles on/off.

Ted

deez,

The Oppo has a screensaver...and it is enabled by default. You can also turn it off.

Anyway mine should be here today or tomorrowWhere did you order yours from and when did you order it???

Onlyt place i kniow that has them is extreme phono dot com i hope im not breaking rules....thanks lite does it come on during pause mode tho???

Also lite, if i keep asking these dumb questions my post count will pass your lol

Originally posted by GSB
Another important thing about macroblocking... if your display suffers with this affliction, be sure to fully calibrate the display to the Oppo's output. It can make a world of difference, as I discovered on my Samsung DLP! Most especially, use the full range of the display's contrast ratio to reduce the severity of macroblocking and banding.

Gary

Here are some tips derived from looking at the macroblock enhance issue for some time with the S97 and this text is adapted from that player's FAQ thread:

MACROBLOCK SURVIVAL GUIDE:
---------------------------------------------------
"Macroblocking" or, specifically "macroblock enhance" has become a hot topic these days with the introduction of the Genesis Micorshicp/Faroudja FLI23xx solution. To some degree or other players with this chip family seem to exhibit the issue.

Macroblocks are 16x16 pixels of screen space. With the FLI-23xx solution, macroblocks, which are part of the MPEG2 compression become emphasized resuling in visible blocks of area which would normally be difficult to view.

What does "macroblocking" mean to the viewer? Black backgrounds may not look entirely black. These backgrounds might look "busy". Black and white programming may have an occasional, small, subtle, momentary introduction of a shade of color on a particular, small portion of the screen. Large areas of solid beige, light brown, "earthtones" may have small areas of momentary, subtle emphasis of color. Some display models show no or little macroblock enhance, others show it mercilessly. Thankfully, in the majority of material the issue isn't visible or the occurance so quick as to be unnoticed. At its worst, however, certain scenes may have a lot of occurances.

What can be done? The best thing to be done is critical adjustment of the display and DVD player. A lot (but not all) of the macroblocking activity is noted in dim scenes with low level brightness and color or bright scenes with low level color. The key is "low level". Adjustments that can emphasize "low level" picture characteristics will emphasize macroblocking.

My best suggetions:

Get Digital Video Essentials (DVE), if one does not have it.

Brightness and Contrast: Adjust critically. Avoid the temptation to "give it a little boost". Boosting the brightness and contrast will emphasize dim scene macroblocking.

Color: Adjust critically. Avoid the tempation to "add a little zip". Boosting the color will emphasize low color level macroblocking -- especially in Black and White material and large areas of beige and light brown scenes (such as the desert sands in Lawrence of Arabia).

Dynamic picture "enhancements". This is tricky. The enhancements typically tend to emphasize color and contrast which normally encourages the presense of macroblocking, however the enhancements also tend to reduce brightness in dim scenes and introduce some "black crush" which can help reduce the appearance of macroblocking. Best bet: try it/remove it and see.

Suggestions that come with a penalty:

Introduce a bit of "black crush" at the display. While removing some low level detail and shading it can also hide dim scene macroblocking.

Reduce color. While it removes a little of the color it also reduces the emphasis place on low level color blocks. In truly Black and White material, a workaround is to reduce the color to minimum (at the display) can remove the low level color macroblocking.

Introduce some NR at the display, if available. While this can smear some fine detail, it tends to smooth out the edges of the macroblocks making the occurance less noticeable.

Reduce the contrast on the player. While it can take away a bit of the vibrancy of the picture, it seems to minimize a bit of the occurance of macroblocks.


Paul

Originally posted by LiteUp!
deez,

The Oppo has a screensaver...and it is enabled by default. You can also turn it off.

Deez,
Check back on page 69 (assume defaults) of this thread. I told you about the screensaver and where to find it in the manual. Geez, I get no respect. :) (just kidding....too much info on this thread; can get lost in the myriad of issues...just funny cuz I responded to you immediately when you asked, with what I thought was too much info)

Ted

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
Here are some tips derived from looking at the macroblock enhance issue for some time with the S97 and this text is adapted from that player's FAQ thread: Paul, thanks. That's useful and interesting.

Gary

Originally posted by Ja Phule
The Oppo cannot do custom resolutions and pixel map the 854x480 resolution of the Optoma H31 (and 4805). It is not a feature supported by the faroudja chip.

Not too sure about #2.

With the Oppo unable to pixel map 1:1 with the Optoma H31 projector, am I going to see a huge drop in picture quality? Are there DVD players that are better suited to a 854x480 resolution?

The Oppo's handling of DVI, its region-free and PAL playback, and its price are all very tempting.

Unfortunately, you do not have a HD resolution projector. Widescreen DVD's are native 720x480 (480p). HD is either 1280x720 (720p) or 1920x1080 (1080i or p that is coming). Sending your projector 480p will likely give you the best picture. No need to bother with upconverting.

Originally posted by GSB
Another important thing about macroblocking... if your display suffers with this affliction, be sure to fully calibrate the display to the Oppo's output. It can make a world of difference, as I discovered on my Samsung DLP! Most especially, use the full range of the display's contrast ratio to reduce the severity of macroblocking and banding.

Gary

Gary,
I'm not quite sure, but you recommend using the full range of the display's contrast ratio. I'm not 100% sure what you mean by this. Could you clarify?

Thanks,
Vince

Yea thanks ted....all respects man as ali g would say...lol

anyway right now im watching House of flying daggers and wow it looks pretty good on my momitsu....my oppo should be here by 3pm pacific time so ill have a good reference to compare it too...lol that sounds funny....a 300$ dvd player as reference...haha...and ill post my comparisons if anyone is interested.........

hate to do this but i haven't been able to find anything definitive. can someone tell me exactly what adapter/cable run I would need to go from the DVI OUT on the Oppo to the VGA IN on the InFocus X1? i understand there's a need for digital to analog conversion or something? thanks in advance.

Everything I read about macroblocking indicates that it occurs mostly on dim scenes.

On the contrary, I do not see any macroblocking on the dim scenes, but I see a ton of it on bright, solid colored backgrounds.

Does anyone else see this type of macroblocking on their Oppo?

Originally posted by LiteUp!
Unfortunately, you do not have a HD resolution projector. Widescreen DVD's are native 720x480 (480p). HD is either 1280x720 (720p) or 1920x1080 (1080i or p that is coming). Sending your projector 480p will likely give you the best picture. No need to bother with upconverting.
Almost all material I plan to watch with the H31 will be standard definition material, so I'm not concerned with upconverting.

Like everyone else in this forum, my main focus is getting the best picture quality out of the H31 using the DVI connection.
Are there any negatives in using a player that doesn't pixel map to the projector's native chip size?

Originally posted by cygnet74
hate to do this but i haven't been able to find anything definitive. can someone tell me exactly what adapter/cable run I would need to go from the DVI OUT on the Oppo to the VGA IN on the InFocus X1? i understand there's a need for digital to analog conversion or something? thanks in advance.

You need to convert the DVI-D (digital) to your pj's VGA (analog). So did I. I bought a Dtrovision DC-DA1 for $259.
http://www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Video/DCDA1.ASP

It works. There are one or two others, but this works, is inexpensive, and is HDCP agnostic. So other than that, you'll need a DVI cable (ExtremePhono has included one in their shipments, dunno about others) and a male-to-male VGA cable. The Oppo DVI port powers the converter, so although a wall wart is included, it's not needed in this application and would possibly induce unnecessary picture noise anyway.

Ted

Originally posted by albo75
With the Oppo unable to pixel map 1:1 with the Optoma H31 projector, am I going to see a huge drop in picture quality? Are there DVD players that are better suited to a 854x480 resolution?

The Oppo's handling of DVI, its region-free and PAL playback, and its price are all very tempting.

I have a 4805, which is very similar to the H31, and the same resolution. Your only options for pixel mapping are going HTPC, or a dvd player that can do it, like Momitsu or Bravo. I needed a DVI player for my setup, just because of what other components and cables I had run, and originally wanted to pixel map.

But the possible quirkiness of the 2 options were less than thrilling, so I went for the OPPO, and I have been very pleased. Picture quality right out of the box is rock solid over DVI, and if they continue to improve via firmware it will only get better.

Plus it was $50 less than the others, is region free without a hack (or was) and to my great pleasure, does DVD-Audio, which I've found I really like! Add automatic 4:3 pillarboxing, super fast navigation, no discernable layer change, etc., and it is a great solution for me.

I don't know what you are coming from, or if you have any real need to run DVI to your PJ. The H31 also has Faroudja, doesn't it? If so, and you have a solid 480i player, you're probably already getting a very good picture, and I'm not sure how much better it would be with the OPPO.

I know it was a good solution for me.

Wes

Originally posted by deez
Yea thanks ted....all respects man as ali g would say...lol

anyway right now im watching House of flying daggers and wow it looks pretty good on my momitsu....my oppo should be here by 3pm pacific time so ill have a good reference to compare it too...lol that sounds funny....a 300$ dvd player as reference...haha...and ill post my comparisons if anyone is interested.........

Deez,
Sorry about the assumption that you already had the Oppo and the manual. Duh. Anyway, I had the Momitsu 880 early in its infancy, selling it last October. The thing about the Oppo that strikes you, at $199, is that it's build quality, GUI and reponsiveness is way better than the Momitsu, IMO. Although I could dial in a 768p custom rez on the Momitsu it didn't look any better than 480p on my rig; but mostly I disliked it's quirkiness and instability. I'm interested in your Oppo feedback.

Ted

Originally posted by albo75
Almost all material I plan to watch with the H31 will be standard definition material, so I'm not concerned with upconverting.

Like everyone else in this forum, my main focus is getting the best picture quality out of the H31 using the DVI connection.
Are there any negatives in using a player that doesn't pixel map to the projector's native chip size?

If you want the best picture for your H31, you will want a pixel mapped HTPC. The only other players that can pixel map are the momitsu and bravo players. There seems to be some reliability problems with those players and they are flag based deinterlacers. HTPCs requires lots of tweaking to get it perfect. The Oppo I think, is a great alternative that will give a great picture.

I agree.....the momitsu does custom resolutions and if you buy the current one the dx i believe they solved all the problems as mine is a 1st gen momo.

oppo should be here in less than a hour........

Well, we will wait their next offering with HDMI? possibly and no MB

Originally posted by wes nance
I don't know what you are coming from, or if you have any real need to run DVI to your PJ. The H31 also has Faroudja, doesn't it? If so, and you have a solid 480i player, you're probably already getting a very good picture, and I'm not sure how much better it would be with the OPPO.

The H31 doesn't have the Faroudja, unlike the 4805, so the Oppo with Faroudja seems like a good way to go.

The H31 will be my first projector, moving up from a 8 year old 32" Sony direct view TV.
I like the idea of DVI, and if it offers the best picture quality, then it's a no brainer.

I've thought about a HTPC, using my current Apple Mac, but a stand alone player is just so much easier and hasslefree.

Thank you for all your help.

Originally posted by Ja Phule
The Oppo I think, is a great alternative that will give a great picture.
I think I'm convinced! Thanks!

My Oppo came today, and it had a large standup sticker on top. Peeled it off and it left sticky crap all over top of player. Is this common with Oppo products? Or did I get a floor model?

Is the Oppo still sold region-free or region selectable ??? What's the procedure ? Will it be forever ??

Christian

To the best of my knowledge there are no "floor" models as this unit is online only in usa....

How does CD playback sound compared to a good sounding stand-alone CD player?........

Originally posted by Cricricri
Is the Oppo still sold region-free or region selectable ??? What's the procedure ? Will it be forever ??

Christian

According to Oppo, the new ones are shipping set to Region 1. I'll let you know tomorrow when I get mine. You can change to to any region or "0" though. See my post here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5535708#post5535708).

Originally posted by dr150
How does CD playback sound compared to a good sounding stand-alone CD player?........ ted_b already posted a good audio review a couple of pages back. The Oppo performs very well.

Gary

Originally posted by RaveD
Everything I read about macroblocking indicates that it occurs mostly on dim scenes.

On the contrary, I do not see any macroblocking on the dim scenes, but I see a ton of it on bright, solid colored backgrounds.

Does anyone else see this type of macroblocking on their Oppo? Yes, I do.

A bad disk can have macroblocking anywhere in dim to bright scenes, but usually on background floors and walls. I don't know where the "dim scenes" definition came from.

Gary

Originally posted by VideoInSF
Gary,
I'm not quite sure, but you recommend using the full range of the display's contrast ratio. I'm not 100% sure what you mean by this. Could you clarify? Vince, macroblocking and banding can be particularly bad on digital displays like DLP. The digital steps, especially in non-linear gamma correction can cause fairly minor banding even in a perfect RGB ramp (color or grayscale). That can have a cumulative effect on source material that is already banded or has macroblocking (related problems), and then that banding no longer looks minor. To minimise the problem, you need to use the full range of the contrast control, using all the bits (digital steps) available to you, and keep all those bits clearly defined, without noise muddying the transition between two different steps.

How? Turn the contrast up as high as it can go without clipping whites (or blooming in a CRT). Use a test pattern to do this properly. In a grayscale calibration, this is imperative: Find the color that is in shortest supply - the one that runs out of steam (gain) first (usually red in DLP). Then leave that color alone and calibrate the others for a 6500K result. That made a HUGE impact on my DLP.

Gary

Originally posted by nothru22
I called renaldow on this in another thread but the Oppo has the SAME EXACT amount of macroblocking as any other player with the 2310 chip in it except the Panasonic S97.

:confused:

What thread was that?

Originally posted by GSB
Vince, macroblocking and banding can be particularly bad on digital displays like DLP. The digital steps, especially in non-linear gamma correction can cause fairly minor banding even in a perfect RGB ramp (color or grayscale). That can have a cumulative effect on source material that is already banded or has macroblocking (related problems), and then that banding no longer looks minor. To minimise the problem, you need to use the full range of the contrast control, using all the bits (digital steps) available to you, and keep all those bits clearly defined, without noise muddying the transition between two different steps.

How? Turn the contrast up as high as it can go without clipping whites (or blooming in a CRT). Use a test pattern to do this properly. In a grayscale calibration, this is imperative: Find the color that is in shortest supply - the one that runs out of steam (gain) first (usually red in DLP). Then leave that color alone and calibrate the others for a 6500K result. That made a HUGE impact on my DLP.

Gary

Gary,
Thanks for the clarification. That's basically what I did and I find that macroblocking is slightly less noticeable.

Okay... no shipping notice after paying on May 19th. ... emailed Extremeguys today, but no answer so far.

Am I gonna get my Oppo soon........................................ or not?

How can I find out this answer, even if I have to call around the world to do so??????????????????????

Gary has it right. A great pattern for this is on AVIA Pro. It has peak white in a small sliver down the middle of a ramp. You bring contrast up as high as you can until that sliver starts to bloom. Near the end you can do fine adjustments before blooming to ensure the least amount of banding in the ramp. Guy did a phenominal job with this pattern.

Just got my Oppo this afternoon and after tweeking it and playing around with it, I'm almost there.

Gary, in the defect list you've been compiling, at number 1 is:
"The warm-up issue is completely gone since the hardware fix, but 1080i sync still remains a problem for some displays. Many displays have no problem at all, others experience wobbling/shaking of the image, and a few experience worse symptoms."

When I put the player into 1080i, it just slowly rolls vertically, much the same way an old television would if you twisted the vertical hold a bit. I've read though most of this thread over the past couple of weeks, but I can't recall if this is one of the 1080i problems others have reported. I seem to recall some others have, but I can't remember for sure. It wouldn't be such a big deal, except that I can see a sizable improvement on my CRT at 1080 over 720, even with the picture rolling. For some reason 720p is creating very faint vertical stripes that are visible even on the main Oppo screen.

Other than that, I've been pretty happy with this player and look forward to any Oppo updates.

Cliff

Originally posted by GSB
ted_b already posted a good audio review a couple of pages back. The Oppo performs very well.

Gary

My review centered around analog DV-A multichannel performance. I won't be using the Oppo as my cd player or trasport. But I'll try it out and respond. I imagine it will be average as a redbook player due to its decent dac, but can't see it as good transport candidate becuase its not the sturdiest of players. I could be wrong; these are just speculations.

Ted

Originally posted by CHAS ZOSS
My Oppo came today, and it had a large standup sticker on top. Peeled it off and it left sticky crap all over top of player. Is this common with Oppo products? Or did I get a floor model?

Mine came yesterday and had the big ugly sticker also. I left it on. I did not want to deal with the sticky stuff yet ;-)

Regarding macroblocking - my H31 came in yesterday and I inadvertantly induced macroblocking with the Oppo when I was messing with the contrast. I can personally attest to inducing macroblocking by not using the H31s contrast completely.

Cheers,
Mark

Originally posted by merc
Okay... no shipping notice after paying on May 19th. ... emailed Extremeguys today, but no answer so far.

Am I gonna get my Oppo soon........................................ or not?

How can I find out this answer, even if I have to call around the world to do so??????????????????????

I believe ExtermeOppo said all orders placed after 04/18,8PM will be shipped after they received their next shipment which is around the end of April.

Placed an order directly through Oppo last Thurs. Got an email yesterday that it has been shipped and a tracking number included. Also sent a couple of emails and received a reply within a few hours. They are very good to deal with. I.E. I placed the order by phone, and just as an aside, I said that shipping thru Amazon was cheaper than thru Oppo, and would they match the price. They said no problem and it's stll being shipped by air.

Larry

Originally posted by Cliff Stephenson
When I put the player into 1080i, it just slowly rolls vertically, much the same way an old television would if you twisted the vertical hold a bit.

That's the exact same problem I'm having with a Toshiba 65H83. What type/brand of display do you have? If it's a Tosh, I can tell you what the vertical stripes are.

Originally posted by Kevin Golding
That's the exact same problem I'm having with a Toshiba 65H83. What type/brand of display do you have? If it's a Tosh, I can tell you what the vertical stripes are.

Yes, Toshiba 50H13.

Cliff

I ordered one from HKFlix.com on Monday and it shipped out this past Wednesday. Due for delivery next Tuesday. I just received the Infocus M1 DVI cable yesterday so I'm all set. Also have a Dishnetwork HiDef box coming next week too. Looking forward to seeing how well the 4805 can handle high definition material.

Cliff,
The vertical stripes are probably 'jail bars.' Do a search in the rear projection forum. Basically, it's a problem with the TV and not the Oppo. There is no known fix.

Hey guys,
What does the part about being HDTV-Ready mean?
Javry

Originally posted by javry
Hey guys,
What does the part about being HDTV-Ready mean?
Javry
It upconverts to 720p and 1080i over the DVI port. Those are the standard HDTV spec scanrates.

-Terry

Originally posted by VideoInSF
Gary,
I'm not quite sure, but you recommend using the full range of the display's contrast ratio. I'm not 100% sure what you mean by this. Could you clarify?

Thanks,
Vince

When he says contrast ratio, I think it would be more accurate to say "range of contrast" instead. Contrast ratio isn't really about your range of black to white, but more about the number of shades of grey the display can render in between. Higher contrast ratio yields more shades of gray which produces smoother colors and a more detailed image that has "depth" to it. Luminance reesponse accuracy is another way to put it.

On the other hand, making sure you are using your entire range of contrast is basically making sure you are not crushing your blacks or whites. I'm sure this is what everybody means in reference to performing a calibration to bring your whites just below clipping or phosphor bloom.

One neat thing about this unit is that the DVI is not HDCP compliant. So if you have a projector like I do with DVI input that is not HDCP, this unit would work great. I have a Sim2 300+. On the other hand, if your projector's DVI is HDCP compliant, you probably won't be able to use the DVI output from the unit. I only read this in the secrets article. Can anyone confirm it?
Javry

Just got mine in last week. Enjoying the hell out of it. However, when viewing divx files of 4:3 material (tv shows) thru DVI at 720/1080, I see the material gets stretched. Switching to WIDE/SQZ does nothing to fix this. Could this be added to Oppo's wishlist? I'd like to be able to see divx 4:3 mateial without things getting stretched. Btw, my display is Panny AE500.

What's the AE500 set to display? You may be able to change it's display to get 4:3.

Originally posted by javry
One neat thing about this unit is that the DVI is not HDCP compliant. So if you have one a projector like I do that has a DVI input that is not HDCP, this unit would work great. I have a Sim2 300+. On the other hand, if your projector's DVI is HDCP compliant, you probably won't be able to use the DVI output from the unit. I only read this in the secrets article. Can anyone confirm it?
Javry

That's not correct. You can use this with any display, since it is never outputting HDCP.

My 4805 is HDCP compliant, and the OPPO works no problem. You should be good with the OPPO whether your display is HDCP compliant or not.

Wes

New firmware has been posted to fix the tray closing problem that a few people have experienced. Here are the details:

Problem: OPDV971H DVD player tray randomly closes itself.

This power-down problem is caused by a new feature introduced in the latest firmware (OP971-2-0412) upgrade. The new feature is automatically closing the tray when pressing the POWER button on the player unit to power off. Due to the static in certain weather and environments, the player may sense the static signal as the command to close tray and thus shuts itself down. The fix is simple – removing the new feature that has caused the problem while keeping other features/fixes in OP971-2-0412 intact.

The steps are:
1. Download the firmware and burn a CD from the downloaded ISO image file. Be sure to burn the CD as an ISO image file, not a data file.
2. Open the tray and insert the CD, and then close the tray.
3. As soon as the CD is loaded, the display will ask you to "Press Play To Start". Press the PLAY key once. The display will show "File Copying" and then "UPGRADING"
4. In about 8 seconds, the CD will be ejected. Remove the CD only; DO NOT DO ANYTHING ELSE.
5. DO NOT PRESS ANY KEY. Wait for about 70-80 seconds. The player will reset itself and close the tray automatically.
6. You have just completed the firmware upgrade

If you don't have this problem, there's no need to change the firmware.
Otherwise, you can download it here (http://www.oppodigital.com/download/firmware0425.iso).

My Initial Impressions Of The OPPO:

I got my OPPO today and opened the box and set it right on top of my MOMO[short for momitsu if you dont know]. I turned it on, put the HOUSE OF THE FLYING DAGGERS in, went to the beauty song scene(that i spent watching on momo last night for comparison)and the picture does not blow away the momo but it is definately a very huge step up!!! Every part of the screen seemed more sharper and colorful and detailed compared to the momo. The Incredibles really popped off the screen wherass the momo just crackled(IMO). Like I said i just cannot get over how much sharper and more 3d the pictures that i am seeing are displayed by this 200$ wonderbox!!!! I do believe the white level to be superior to the MOMO as i noticied more detail in the dark scenes with less white fuzz. Only thing i calibrated was the contrast and brightness with the THX optimizer that is on the Incredibles dvd. Later, I will fully dial-in the calibration using DVE, but for out-of-the-box the PQ is awesome!!!!

As of this post i have not noticed any form of macroblocking on my display. And to my last point, HOUSE OF THE FLYING DAGGERS has a lot of out of focus shots where the actors are infocus up close but backgrounds are unfocused...this should be a perfect disc to test this for i think maybe someone else can confirm this???

Anyway i do love this unit and barring any unforseen circumstances i will be making this my main dvd player.


ps:BEST THING ABOUT IT NON-PICTURE WISE FOR ME IS THE SCREENSAVER!!!!AND YES I KNOW IM YELLING BUT I DONT CARE TO HAVE A FULLY FUNCTIONAL SS THAT COMES ON IN PAUSE MODE MAKES THIS DVD PLAYER TEN TIMES BETTER THAN THE MOMO!!!! YOU KNOW WHAT IM CHANGING MY MIND FOR THE SCREENSAVER REASON THIS PLAYER DOES BLOW AWAY THE MOMO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One last thing and really so far only thing that i dont like is the tray.......


peace.......oh yea and someone should take a poll and see if this macroblocking thing is dependent on the kind of display....like plasma, dlp,lcd or whatever....i have a hitachi 57s500 crt..........