I ordered one for 35$ from I-data as I wasn't sure it came with one - does anyone know - i really dont need two :)

Yes - mine came with the D4-component adapter and a D4-component 3ft cable.

About all the removal of output filter passives, you should be able to do this much more simply. Just short out the inductor (series component) and avoid removing anything. A cap in parallel at the output of the buffer won't do much if the output impedance is low. So, no desoldering.

mike

About all the removal of output filter passives, you should be able to do this much more simply. Just short out the inductor (series component) and avoid removing anything. A cap in parallel at the output of the buffer won't do much if the output impedance is low. So, no desoldering.

mike

Mike:

Have you seen the size of these parts? Shorting out the inductor will require soldering, and it's alot easier to get the short in place with the inductor removed. At least, that was my experience.

About all the removal of output filter passives, you should be able to do this much more simply. Just short out the inductor (series component) and avoid removing anything. A cap in parallel at the output of the buffer won't do much if the output impedance is low. So, no desoldering.
Jeez, don't you guys read back posts? This question has been asked and answered at least 3 times. Here is why dahester does not recommend that method:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5806347&&#post5806347

So are you saying that his statements as to why shorting out the inductor and/or leaving the capacitor alone are innaccurate? I don't see the same level of explanation in your post nor does it address dahester's comments.

Just got this player today and I must say I'm disappointed. I purchased it primarily to watch divx/xvid files. I was shocked to find out that it doesn't support "Previous" and "Next" file options. You have to "Play All" in order to get files to play in sequence. Not good when you have a directory of 100 files. It also can't recurse folders during a "Play All". It's also super slow over the wired network.

A few hours in and I already hate this player. My $59 Philips DVP642 at least has the generic, common sense functions above. I can't believe the money I wasted on this!

I posted about this on iodata's official forum. I added a poll, so if anyone here is registered there, go ahead and vote for them to remedy this:

http://www.iodata.com/usa/forum/showthread.php?t=835

I can't believe the money I wasted on this!I'm not sure why you would put 100 DivX files in a folder and want to play them all in sequence. I had the DVP642 before the AVLP2 and it was not networked nor could it handle anywhere near the content the AVLP2 can -- the DVP642 could only handle SD DivX content and no content that was higher res or certainly true High Definition (.ts) -- nor would it play about a quarter of DivX tv episodes.

Sorry to hear the AVLP2 won't work out for you. I'm surprised to hear you're out the money -- isn't IO-Data accepting your return?

I guess it will come as no relief for you guys to know that the Zensonic Z500 is able to play files in sequence....

In fact you'll even be able to "Sort" your files by either Name, Size, Type, Album, Artist, Date or Genre ;)


heers

I guess it will come as no relief for you guys to know that the Zensonic Z500 is able to play files in sequence....

In fact you'll even be able to "Sort" your files by either Name, Size, Type, Album, Artist, Date or Genre ;)


heers

I should point out that this is NOT a function of the player. It is a function of the server software. I can easily play files in sequence on the LP2 using the "wizd" server. Sorting and other navigational/organizational aids can easily be provided by server software. I sure hope people aren't waiting for Zensonic just to get this feature.

I should point out that this is NOT a function of the player. It is a function of the server software. I can easily play files in sequence on the LP2 using the "wizd" server. Sorting and other navigational/organizational aids can easily be provided by server software. I sure hope people aren't waiting for Zensonic just to get this feature.

Unless his entire collection is on optical media being played off the loader... (like the Philips DVP642).

What display device are you using? Your display is undoubtedly the cause of the cropping, because LP2 appears to be sending out the correct signal, with ALL image lines intact. When you say "regular programming", what are you referring to? Is it HDTV?

There ARE other products that provide adjustments to counterbalance overscan in your display. (Like Roku HD1000, for example) But I believe these work by shrinking the actual content a little, then adding black bars around the edges to make up the difference. The actual signal characteristics (number of scan-lines, etc.) remains constant. It would be a nice bonus if LP2 had this feature, but I think it is a minor issue. They have other problems to fix first.


I have another tv to test so I will.

Unless his entire collection is on optical media being played off the loader... (like the Philips DVP642).

Oops.. Yes, you are right. If you are playing off a disc in the tray, then the player is responsible for any playback features. (I actually have never used the drive.. I would have been happy with the Japanese network-only version myself...)

I can easily play files in sequence on the LP2 using the "wizd" server.

How do you accomplish this? I've tried Link Server, wizd, and Swiss Center. They all appear to have the same limitation. The only way to play all files in sequence is to choose to "Play All" which forces you to start from the first file. For instance, let's say you have a folder with 20 files, you navigate to the 10th file, and press the "Play" button. A play all notice flashes on the screen, but it doesn't start playing from file 10 of 20. It starts at file 1 of 20 always.

If you're able to start playing in sequence on a file in the middle of the folder, I'd sure like to know. It'll save me the $60 (15% restocking fee & UPS) it'll take to ship back this machine.

Thanks.

I guess it will come as no relief for you guys to know that the Zensonic Z500 is able to play files in sequence....

In fact you'll even be able to "Sort" your files by either Name, Size, Type, Album, Artist, Date or Genre ;)


heers

Unfortunately, the Zensonic appears that it'll only be available in Australia. Since I'm in the US, it won't do me any good to wait for a potentially better player.

This all sounds very much like hard work though :eek:

slightly OT...

when recording a dvd of .ts files for playback on the linkplayer, is it best to leave them as 100mb chunks or to combine them? is there a smooth transition between files?

also, even more OT, can i play a 50hz .ts file on an american linkplayer on an american hdtv?

thanks :-)

slightly OT...

when recording a dvd of .ts files for playback on the linkplayer, is it best to leave them as 100mb chunks or to combine them? is there a smooth transition between files?


thanks :-)

You will get a 2-3 second pause every minute with 100 MB chunks. I'd make bigger chunks.

........................ I'd make bigger chunks.

Or no splits at all.

slightly OT...

when recording a dvd of .ts files for playback on the linkplayer, is it best to leave them as 100mb chunks or to combine them? is there a smooth transition between files?

also, even more OT, can i play a 50hz .ts file on an american linkplayer on an american hdtv?

thanks :-)You will get a 2-3 second pause every minute with 100 MB chunks. I'd make bigger chunks.Or no splits at all.This is another one of the reasons why I'd hoped this (and other similar) players had supported MPEG-2 video in MP4 (along with 6Ch AAC audio).

You could have muxed all the separate MPEG-2 streams into one long MPEG-2 stream within the MP4 container and hit the play button!

I have done some experiments playing MPEG-2 in MP4 files as big as 8-9GB in VLC player.... they worked perfectly!


Cheers

How do you accomplish this? I've tried Link Server, wizd, and Swiss Center. They all appear to have the same limitation. The only way to play all files in sequence is to choose to "Play All" which forces you to start from the first file. For instance, let's say you have a folder with 20 files, you navigate to the 10th file, and press the "Play" button. A play all notice flashes on the screen, but it doesn't start playing from file 10 of 20. It starts at file 1 of 20 always.

If you're able to start playing in sequence on a file in the middle of the folder, I'd sure like to know. It'll save me the $60 (15% restocking fee & UPS) it'll take to ship back this machine.

Thanks.

Oh, yeah. You are right. It always starts at the top. But it DOES play them in sequence. I thought that was the main complaint. I never tried starting from the middle. In theory, though, this could still be accomplished by the server software. I guess noone who has worked on the wizd source ever thought it was worth spending any time on. Sorry.

Send that sucker packing... (I'll be keeping mine...)

puter:

I just read your post on the IOData forum. I think I see what you mean. You are right. This machine is sorely lacking in the navigation dept, and some of these problems can NOT be fixed in server software (like the annoying titles that flash up when you skip to the next file..)

I would add the following to the "wish list":

1) When one file finishes playing, it should automatically and SEAMLESSLY advance to the next file in the list. Whether or not you pressed "play all". This would solve the split-.ts file problem.
2) We really need a "skip forward 30 seconds" button. Is this too much to ask? (the % function is REALLY annoying, if you ask me... "let's see, I want to move forward 4 commercials, that's 2 minutes, and this is a 60 minute show, so, I need to move forward 2/60 = 3.33%". riiiiight! It would be SO much easier to just hit the 30sec button 4 times...

Anyways, the ONLY reason I'm keepin mine is for its HD capabilities. At the moment, there doesn't seem to be too much competition in HD network players. And since it IS firmware upgradable, there is at least SOME hope that these issues will be addressed.

Jeez, don't you guys read back posts? This question has been asked and answered at least 3 times. Here is why dahester does not recommend that method:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5806347&&#post5806347

So are you saying that his statements as to why shorting out the inductor and/or leaving the capacitor alone are innaccurate? I don't see the same level of explanation in your post nor does it address dahester's comments.

OK, dahester talks about not disturbing the delicate balance in nature of a 2nd order filter and says a 1st ord filter is a poor performer and louse up the t-line behavior of the output. A 1st order filter passes freq as well as, if not better than, 2nd order. The key diff being a 2nd ord rolls off twice as fast as a 1st order above their respective "cutoff" freq. The exisitng LC filter probably has a pole at 10MHz or so and the RC maybe 30-40MHz. Don't know - just guessing. If you remove the cap, the freq cutoff may extend higher but then you have an interaction with the coax cable hangin off this output. BTW, a t-line electrically looks like a resistor at high freq. (for video 75 ohms, test equip 50 ohms) If you have a schematic, you can calculate the -3db freq (f=1/(6.28*(LC)^0.5)) I was simply offering a simpler solution. I'd guess the L is about 0.5uH and the C a few hundred pF. The output impedance of the "output" chip determine the RC cutoff freq - I was guessing < 10 ohms. If they use a high speed op-amp then the o/p Z will be almost zero and therefore the C hangin off the output (as part of an RC filter) is probably a second order effect. I've worked for various chip companies and deal with circuit design, signal integrity, soldering/desoldering, etc. on a daily basis.

2) We really need a "skip forward 30 seconds" button. Is this too much to ask? (the % function is REALLY annoying, if you ask me... "let's see, I want to move forward 4 commercials, that's 2 minutes, and this is a 60 minute show, so, I need to move forward 2/60 = 3.33%". riiiiight! It would be SO much easier to just hit the 30sec button 4 times...

I think it is even easier to edit out the ads and watch your show like a movie...doesn't everyone do that? To me it is one of the main benefits of recording to a computer in the first place...

Z

Or no splits at all.

But is there a 4GB file limit if you play a DVD on the LP? I guess I'm not sure.

But is there a 4GB file limit if you play a DVD on the LP? I guess I'm not sure.

That's the file size limit of the DVD media (or 8gb if you use Dual Layer DVDs), not of the LP itself. From a server's hard drive, I have not come across any file size that I couldn't play.

I think it is even easier to edit out the ads and watch your show like a movie...doesn't everyone do that? To me it is one of the main benefits of recording to a computer in the first place...

Z

Really? It's easier? Please explain.

Really? It's easier? Please explain.


I agree. I save the recorded tv shows via either MyHD or direct from the firewire (non-5c flag shows which are basically the same as OTA digital).

Before watching I drag the file into H2, and hit the scan button, and process. then when you watch its commercial free but with my slow computer the processing migth take 15 minutes and the scan might take 10.

This only takes about 5 or 10 seconds of my time to end up commercial free.
For some shows or when the 4x3 scanning of H2 doesn't work I scan manually. Takes a minute or so to do a one hour show.

Yet another attempt at a decent GUI for mp3 playback - Cidero upnp bridge and Media Renderer. http://www.cidero.com/index.html

I'm hopeful because of this - "...allows non-UPnP devices, to be used in a UPnP network." Since the LP doesn't seem to be truly upnp maybe this will work.

Edit - it's not working. When I search for media devices nothing happens.

Before watching I drag the file into H2, and hit the scan button, and process. then when you watch its commercial free but with my slow computer the processing migth take 15 minutes and the scan might take 10.
This only takes about 5 or 10 seconds of my time to end up commercial free.
For some shows or when the 4x3 scanning of H2 doesn't work I scan manually. Takes a minute or so to do a one hour show.

That is pretty cool that that sw product does it automatically. I do it by hand with EyeTV (Macintosh), but the sw is really good and it goes very fast once you get good at it - a couple minutes for an hour show. I have learned where to put the edits so that I almost always get a nice, quick, silent fade to black and back at every break (depends on the show, they don't always put in enough black, quiet frames). Then EyeTV has to "compress" the file which takes another 2-3 minutes for an hour show. This process obviously cuts about 30% from every file, very useful in maximizing HD space.

About UPnP compatability, the last AVLP2 update (Aug) fixed that issue for me. I became able to use Elgato's UPnP server sw (EyeConnect) after that fw update, so it may have also made other products more compatible...

Z

I've heard of Elegato. Unfortunately I don't have a Mac.

About all the removal of output filter passives, you should be able to do this much more simply. Just short out the inductor (series component) and avoid removing anything. A cap in parallel at the output of the buffer won't do much if the output impedance is low. So, no desoldering.

mike

If you're sure this will work, how do you do that?

I've heard of Elegato. Unfortunately I don't have a Mac.

That is too bad :)

But I was just saying that I think The IO-Data got more UPnP compatible with the last fw upgrade...maybe the next one will be even better. Are there not already many PC server options that work fine with the AVLP2 for audio files?

Z

A solid wire may be soldered to one side of the inductor, then holding onto the wire and pushing it close to the other end of the inductor, you solder that end, and clip. No desoldering (removal) of components. There is one other even simpler thing - conductive silver paint. Not sure about availability or resistivity though. Paint enough on the inductor to cover the end caps.

That is too bad :)

But I was just saying that I think The IO-Data got more UPnP compatible with the last fw upgrade...maybe the next one will be even better. Are there not already many PC server options that work fine with the AVLP2 for audio files?

Z

Not really. I've tried a dozen. Twonky, J River Media Center, Swiss Center, blah blah.

Not one allows for easy navigation of lots of folders and creation of playlists.

I agree. I save the recorded tv shows via either MyHD or direct from the firewire (non-5c flag shows which are basically the same as OTA digital).

Before watching I drag the file into H2, and hit the scan button, and process. then when you watch its commercial free but with my slow computer the processing migth take 15 minutes and the scan might take 10.

This only takes about 5 or 10 seconds of my time to end up commercial free.
For some shows or when the 4x3 scanning of H2 doesn't work I scan manually. Takes a minute or so to do a one hour show.

Ok, so say I have my week's worth of shows recorded. Maybe 5 shows or so. I sit down on my couch Friday evening and I want to watch something. So my choices are:
1) Decide which program I want to watch from LP2 playlist.
1c) Hit "play". Fast forward through commercials when I encounter them.

OR

2) Decide which one I want to watch.
2b) Go upstairs to the pc, find the appropriate file and fire up H2
2c) Wait some (~25 minutes) amount for H2 to process and scan.
2d) Go back downstairs and navigate LP2 to the resultant file.
2e) hit "play".

Which of these seems easier to you? I can watch my typical 1hr show in about 45minutes using method 1, but it takes 70 minutes for 2. Which one is less time-consuming?

Ok, now in the middle of watching this show, I get tired of it (especially after waiting around 25 minutes to start watching..) I want to watch something else. Do you really think I am gonna do "2" again?

Now, if there were some way to automate the scan, so that it occurs just after the file is captured (DURING capture would be even better), then this would be great. With all the manual steps, it is not easier for me...

Which of these seems easier to you? I can watch my typical 1hr show in about 45minutes using method 1, but it takes 70 minutes for 2. Which one is less time-consuming?

Wow, talk about fuzzy math. I believe the earlier poster said it takes him a few seconds to actually start his scan. I would guess that he does not wait until he is ready to watch something to do this. Are you saying you do not sit down at your computer at all for a whole week? If so, I'm amazed you can aquire all those recordings in the first place. I guess it just depends on how you want to watch your HD shows. Personally, I enjoy the "movie like" experience of watching a show straight through in the home theater with the lights down and without interruption. I like it so much that I make sure to find a few minutes at some point beforehand to do the editing. To each their own...

oh, and I'm guessing there is a way to automate that scan on a PC. I know there is a way to do that in OS X, but I don't think there is an app that removes the ads on its own...

Z

Ok, so say I have my week's worth of shows recorded. Maybe 5 shows or so. I sit down on my couch Friday evening and I want to watch something. So my choices are:
1) Decide which program I want to watch from LP2 playlist.
1c) Hit "play". Fast forward through commercials when I encounter them.

OR

2) Decide which one I want to watch.
2b) Go upstairs to the pc, find the appropriate file and fire up H2
2c) Wait some (~25 minutes) amount for H2 to process and scan.
2d) Go back downstairs and navigate LP2 to the resultant file.
2e) hit "play".

Which of these seems easier to you? I can watch my typical 1hr show in about 45minutes using method 1, but it takes 70 minutes for 2. Which one is less time-consuming?

Ok, now in the middle of watching this show, I get tired of it (especially after waiting around 25 minutes to start watching..) I want to watch something else. Do you really think I am gonna do "2" again?

Now, if there were some way to automate the scan, so that it occurs just after the file is captured (DURING capture would be even better), then this would be great. With all the manual steps, it is not easier for me...

your math is different than mine

maybe your hardware is also

but paralleling your approach I will agree with your first choice:

about 45 minutes to watch a 1 hour show; with a lot of attention to make sure I start ff at right time and stop at right time and make sure if I go too far back up to catch what I missed.

or option 2;

with my chair side monitor drag a recorded show into H2 with my HTPC keyboard or mouse, press the scan button, (takes several seconds) go back to watching my HDTV

about 5-10 minutes later during a break in show I am watching - look at my monitor and click process - takes about 10 second.

repeat this 20 second process about 10 times for the HD shows I am interested in watching that week that I have pre-recorded.

So I invest about 5-10 minutes max

then:

watch what I want to of the shows I have recorded and processed; when I want to; without having to worry about when to start ff or reversing


Above numbers reflect "good" HD scans. For some things like ABC in 720 p for me , or 4:3 shows like Family Guy, I do have to invest a couple minutes to catch the commercials

A solid wire may be soldered to one side of the inductor, then holding onto the wire and pushing it close to the other end of the inductor, you solder that end, and clip. No desoldering (removal) of components. There is one other even simpler thing - conductive silver paint. Not sure about availability or resistivity though. Paint enough on the inductor to cover the end caps.

That last option seems interesting as I don't have a sodering iron. A google search shows the paint is readily available. If I were to do this, do I need only to worry about two components?

Just got my LinkPlayer2 this past Monday. I installed the LinkServer on my PC. Everything worked well. I noticed though that the LinkServer software does not show the .TS files I have on my PC but does recognize them on my burnt DVD-R's, weird. I ended up renaming the ones on my PC with a .MPG extension to be recognized.

I noticed that the menus and picture quality were not as sharp to my liking so I decided to do the "filter mod" talked about in this thread. I was a bit confused with regards to whether it was the C202 or the C109 that I should be removing. In reviewing the original post, the C202 is the correct one. Just wondering what would happen if someone removed the C109 capacitor. Anyway, I'm glad to report that the mod worked great! The 1080i on my Sony 34" XBR960 is just as clear as what I was used to when I use to output my .TS files via my ATI 9800XT Radeon's component video adapter.

I'm now just waiting for the LiteOn SOHD-167T DVD player that I bought on eBay. The stock loader is not bad, but sometimes freezes on some of my archived .TS files on DVD-R.

For those wanting to do the mod and need a picture reference, I've attached a picture of my LinkPlayer2's board and highlighted the capacitors to remove and the inductors to remove and bridge.

Just got my LinkPlayer2 this past Monday. I installed the LinkServer on my PC. Everything worked well. I noticed though that the LinkServer software does not show the .TS files I have on my PC but does recognize them on my burnt DVD-R's, weird. I ended up renaming the ones on my PC with a .MPG extension to be recognized.



Be sure you have the latest firmware upgrade. TS files should have no problem showing up from your server.

Just got my LinkPlayer2 this past Monday. I installed the LinkServer on my PC. Everything worked well. I noticed though that the LinkServer software does not show the .TS files I have on my PC but does recognize them on my burnt DVD-R's, weird. I ended up renaming the ones on my PC with a .MPG extension to be recognized.




You need to install the 1.9b server software for native TS support, check the first post in this thread for a link.

You need to install the 1.9b server software for native TS support, check the first post in this thread for a link.
Thank you irgaac :)

On a separate note, has there been any problems with the latest firmware upgrade and anyone who has done the LiteOn SOHD-167T mod?

I have done the DVD mod to the Lite On, and no problems with the latest firmware.

JRad

I have done the DVD mod to the Lite On, and no problems with the latest firmware.

JRad
In reading through all the LiteOn DVD mod posts, am I correct to assume then that the 2 end screws are the ones fastening the DVD player securely. I believe that I saw in one of Kermee's pictures that the middle screws did virtually nothing as far as securing the LiteOn to the base.

A digital shot of this would be great!

That last option seems interesting as I don't have a sodering[sic] iron.I would not trust the video signal to bypass the inductor/capacitor pair by painting conductive paint on the outside of the inductor! Even if the paint was a perfect conductor with no resistance, I don't think you can bypass the effects of the filter by shorting it out, either, especially with an inductor. Maybe I'm wrong though.

Radio Shack sells half a dozen different soldering irons for $7.

I was a bit confused with regards to whether it was the C202 or the C109 that I should be removing.I do not understand why out of the blue one or more people started talking about removing the C109 capacitor or having had removed it. The C109 has NOTHING to do with this modification. The three pairs are L65/C202, L66/C201, and L67/C200, as dahester wrote in the initial post on page 13. I realize the label "C109" is near the C202 part on the PCB, but that does not mean that C202 should be called C109! Doing so will greatly confuse people trying to do this modification.

In reading through all the LiteOn DVD mod posts, am I correct to assume then that the 2 end screws are the ones fastening the DVD player securely. I believe that I saw in one of Kermee's pictures that the middle screws did virtually nothing as far as securing the LiteOn to the base.

A digital shot of this would be great!

f13dfx,
There are different ways to secure the drive to the mounting posts. Some use hot glue, some put the mounting screw back in but not all of the way. I used double sided tape on top of the posts and then used super mount tape on the sides, it seems to be secure, but it does not look pretty. The hardest thing is to align the drive so it closes correctly with the faceplate on. I had to superglue the faceplate onto the tray because I broke one of the tabs off of the faceplate, hopefully I will never have to replace the drive. Hope this helps. Good luck!

JRad

I would not trust the video signal to bypass the inductor/capacitor pair by painting conductive paint on the outside of the inductor! Even if the paint was a perfect conductor with no resistance, I don't think you can bypass the effects of the filter by shorting it out, either, especially with an inductor. Maybe I'm wrong though.

Radio Shack sells half a dozen different soldering irons for $7.

Electrons don't care if the short (an ohm or less) is silver paint or a surface mount resistor or a wire. I was just guessing that the inductor is about 0.5uH, so at 20MHz this will look like 63 ohms. Even 2 or 3 ohms in parallel with the coil will dominate the equivalent impedance.

I looked up some silver paint on the web. It's spec'd at <0.4 ohms/square. Whether you brush on a cm-by-cm or mm-by-mm square, you get something less than an ohm. I don't know what the shape of the L is, but it might be the equiv of 2 squares, so be it. highspeedpc.com has a bottle for 9.95.

I agree. I save the recorded tv shows via either MyHD or direct from the firewire (non-5c flag shows which are basically the same as OTA digital).

Before watching I drag the file into H2, and hit the scan button, and process. then when you watch its commercial free but with my slow computer the processing migth take 15 minutes and the scan might take 10.

This only takes about 5 or 10 seconds of my time to end up commercial free.
For some shows or when the 4x3 scanning of H2 doesn't work I scan manually. Takes a minute or so to do a one hour show.
OK, you got me interested in an LP2 just to play files off the network.
'drag the file into H2'----------- what are you talking about??

OK, you got me interested in an LP2 just to play files off the network.
'drag the file into H2'----------- what are you talking about??
I assume he is talking about HDTVtoMPEG2 program. Just do a search in the HTPC forum for lots of info.

I also use it to edit out commericals on .ts or .tp files, but I do it manually not using the scan function, which leads me to my next post to RalphArch.

or option 2;

with my chair side monitor drag a recorded show into H2 with my HTPC keyboard or mouse, press the scan button, (takes several seconds) go back to watching my HDTV

about 5-10 minutes later during a break in show I am watching - look at my monitor and click process - takes about 10 second.

repeat this 20 second process about 10 times for the HD shows I am interested in watching that week that I have pre-recorded.

So I invest about 5-10 minutes max



I tried the SCAN method with HDTVtoMPEG2 and on last weeks LOST it only caught the commericals at the half hour break. Is there a sensitivity setting that I am unaware of?

I agree this is the way to watch network TV. I have been manually editing with HDTVtoMPEG2 and it only takes about a minute or so to edit out commericals. Did editing and coverting on five shows in about a half hour Saturday while watching football. That is editing out 60-70 minutes of things I don't need to deal with so even if I didn't do it during football, I'm saving time PLUS then I can go watch it on the LP nonstop if I wish.

I tried the SCAN method with HDTVtoMPEG2 and on last weeks LOST it only caught the commericals at the half hour break. Is there a sensitivity setting that I am unaware of?



As I mentioned, for some things like ABC in 720 p for me; or 4:3 shows like Family Guy, I do have to invest a couple minutes to catch the commercials

I don't know any tricks other than to let scan run for a while before editing as I don't have to pay attention to it and if it doesn't find anything nothing is lost - but for the great majority of 16*9 1080i programs it catches most cuts automatically

One of the H2M threads says the commercial scan is being greatly improved and will be much faster for the next version.

It's been a long time since a new version came out so I am waiting impatiently.

I have to admit since Iodata added ff and rew for TS/TP I use H2M alot less often than I used to.

after reading about this player for a while, i decided to take the plunge and just received mine today.

while the player works great and all, the picture is rather poor. while i don't mind the softness, the player introduces a lot of interference. now before everyone goes blaming my other equipment -- i simply unplugged my cheap-o sony progressive scan player (component video) and plugged the cables into the D4 cable.

480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i -- all lots of interference. mostly horizontal or diagonal lines that scroll a bit. UGH! unplug the LP2, plug in the sony DVD, and all is beautiful again.

plug into my HPTC (ATI 9500pro with component adapter) -- all is still beautiful.

plug into LP2, ACK! lines, lines, LINES!

people mentioned getting a better D4 connector (JVC) -- did this help reduce interference at all? does the filter mod help with interference?

i'm a little bummed out. :(

Sounds like a "bum" unit. Don't have any such issues with mine - and I am really critical about stuff like that.

I have to admit since Iodata added ff and rew for TS/TP I use H2M alot less often than I used to.

Aha! See, no matter how easy the H2M scanning becomes, it IS another manual step that will inevitably be skipped sometimes (in my case, ALL the time....)

ff and rew are better than nothing, but there IS room for improvement. Like, skip-ahead 30sec, or (better yet) auto-skip commercials on-the-fly during play (like ReplayTV).

Electrons don't care if the short (an ohm or less) is silver paint or a surface mount resistor or a wire. I was just guessing that the inductor is about 0.5uH, so at 20MHz this will look like 63 ohms. Even 2 or 3 ohms in parallel with the coil will dominate the equivalent impedance.

I looked up some silver paint on the web. It's spec'd at <0.4 ohms/square. Whether you brush on a cm-by-cm or mm-by-mm square, you get something less than an ohm. I don't know what the shape of the L is, but it might be the equiv of 2 squares, so be it. highspeedpc.com has a bottle for 9.95.

I guess I'll give it a shot as it seems foolproof. I didn't realize soldering irons were so cheap but I've never used one and I can just see myself ruining the whole unit. An earlier poster gave a detailed description and as I recall he was using a magnifying glass and blowing smoke away and had to get the iron to a certain temperature etc.

So with the paint, can i just cover the entire area in the attached?

I guess I'll give it a shot as it seems foolproof. I didn't realize soldering irons were so cheap but I've never used one and I can just see myself ruining the whole unit. An earlier poster gave a detailed description and as I recall he was using a magnifying glass and blowing smoke away and had to get the iron to a certain temperature etc.

So with the paint, can i just cover the entire area in the attached?


that's way off. the inductors can be painted. most of us are removing (not shorting) the capacitors. so if you aren't going to follow what others have done at least only paint the inductors. A short of the capacitors is the opposite of an open

I guess I'll give it a shot as it seems foolproof. I didn't realize soldering irons were so cheap but I've never used one and I can just see myself ruining the whole unit. An earlier poster gave a detailed description and as I recall he was using a magnifying glass and blowing smoke away and had to get the iron to a certain temperature etc.

So with the paint, can i just cover the entire area in the attached?

Ralph - exactly right.

Mabrym - Looks like you are pointing to the caps as well as the inductors. DO NOT paint the caps - a short (a few ohms) to ground would kill the signal. Only paint L65, L66, L67. Each inductor has soldered end caps, so you should apply enough paint to cover the top of the component (and just touching the end caps) but not glob it so as to drip down on the pc board.

I'm looking at this device as a possible "media extender" of sorts. Please respond if you have any experience. Here's what I'm looking to do.

I have been making backup copies of my DVD's for a year now and have about 300 or so. I'm considering putting together a quick 1-2TB storage system and putting all of these DVD's on-line in my network. What I'm having trouble with is finding a device that will interface with my TV's that can play these DVD's that has a decent interface that would be capable of dealing with say maybe 1200 DVD's online. I've thought of building a HTPC or a Windows Media Center PC but I have two problems. My sony 42" LCD projection TV is almost impossible to interface with PC equipment (you've seen the treads) and the thought of a PC running in each location is not in my mind at least desireable. But, that being said, they do seem to have a decent interface and are still a possibility. I sumbled across the AVPL2 last night and thought it might make a nice alternative at 250 bucks. So the questions are.

1. Will it play my 'ripped' DVD's from my storage location (I can run the server on a PC, I've always got one running in the network).

2. How does it handle DVD's ripped to the HD? Runs the menu's as normal etc?

3. How is the content management system? How would it handle a large number of titles?

Of course what I'm looking for here is a kaliedescape type clone at a fraction of the cost.

Your comments are appreciated.

Regards,

Roveer

1. Will it play my 'ripped' DVD's from my storage location (I can run the server on a PC, I've always got one running in the network).

Yes

2. How does it handle DVD's ripped to the HD? Runs the menu's as normal etc?

It does not run the menus. You would choose the movie VOB from the menu and play it. If you ripped the movie into several smaller VOB files there is a blank screen and delay when you the player switches to the next file. I ripped movies as single large files to get around this limitation. It doesn't have any trouble playing >4GB files back over the network.

3. How is the content management system? How would it handle a large number of titles?

It basically has an "Explorer" type of file view- Movies->Movie title folder->VOB file(s). You can also put the movie VOB's in the top level- Movies->VOB File(s).

If you have your DVD's ripped into large VOB files the player works quite well for accessing them. You lose all the DVD navigation but you can watch any of the individual VOB's by selecting them from the players navigation screen. If you ripped the entire disc the VOB's for the movies and extra features will be available so you can still view them just not using the DVD navigation on the disc.

1. Will it play my 'ripped' DVD's from my storage location (I can run the server on a PC, I've always got one running in the network).

2. How does it handle DVD's ripped to the HD? Runs the menu's as normal etc?

3. How is the content management system? How would it handle a large number of titles?


I agree with the answers in the previous post but want to add that using WIZD (3rd party pen source) as a server greatly improves LP2 usability with DVD rips and file navigation.

It removes the pause between multi vob segmented movies.
It improves chapter navigation.
It improves identifying different program streams on a ripped dvd since it uses the IFOs to find each title within the collection of VOBs and shows playing length.

If your really need DVD menus your best bet is the upcoming TIVX 5000 expected in January -- If it delivers on its hype it will do all the stuff the LP2 does and be able to process ISO rips of DVDs accross the network as if they were local DVDs.

That procedure is wrong.

Press:

BACK SLOW
4
6
4
6

Then 0 to set to Region 0

I have this as a Macro on my Pronto as you need to enter it each session. Works well.

Hi there -

I tried this; it gave me the region prompt, and I entered 0. I thought I had set the machine to be region free. Then, tried to play a "foreign" DVD, and it told me that it couldn't do so... INVALID, or REGION VIOLATION; I can't remember the exact error message. (But I could try this again if that would help.)

Does this hack only affect the machine's own firmware (as opposed to the firmware in the loader?) In other words, do I need to separately hack the loader to make the loader itself region free before setting the Linkplayer's firmware to be region free?

Thanks!

Hi there -

I tried this; it gave me the region prompt, and I entered 0. I thought I had set the machine to be region free. Then, tried to play a "foreign" DVD, and it told me that it couldn't do so... INVALID, or REGION VIOLATION; I can't remember the exact error message. (But I could try this again if that would help.)

Does this hack only affect the machine's own firmware (as opposed to the firmware in the loader?) In other words, do I need to separately hack the loader to make the loader itself region free before setting the Linkplayer's firmware to be region free?

Thanks!

If the disk is RCE protected you need to select the matching region for the disk instead of 0. Region Free works for most disks but RCE protection actually requires a region to match or it won't play.

If the disk is RCE protected you need to select the matching region for the disk instead of 0. Region Free works for most disks but RCE protection actually requires a region to match or it won't play.

Got it. And, in such a case, do I need to get the drive itself AND the IODATA's firmware to match? Or is it OK if the drive is set to Region 0 (once, prior to installation in the IODATA), and I just get the IODATA's firmware to match each time?

(If I have to get the drive's firmware to match each time, that seems like a pain in the neck...gotta remove the drive, put it in a PC, change the region, put it back in the IODATA...)

Got it. And, in such a case, do I need to get the drive itself AND the IODATA's firmware to match? Or is it OK if the drive is set to Region 0 (once, prior to installation in the IODATA), and I just get the IODATA's firmware to match each time?

(If I have to get the drive's firmware to match each time, that seems like a pain in the neck...gotta remove the drive, put it in a PC, change the region, put it back in the IODATA...)

All of my RCE disks are zone 1 so I haven't thought this all thru beyond the firmware hack. I forgot the drives are R1 in our units to start with so I don't know what a RCE coded Zone 2 for example would do. If you have another zone disk with problems let us know how it turns out,

Hi Everyone,

New poster - I really enjoy reading all the threads on IODATA's Linkplayer. I actually went and bought one because of all the positive feedback about it. Just a novice but pretty thrilled with it so far.
I think I read somewhere that it does not play SACD CDs - is this true?
If it doesn't, can it be converted to a SACD player through future firmware updates?
How about DVD-Audio?
Are there any "hack"codes to add SACD/DVD-Audio to it?
Anyway, not such great questions, but I thought I'd put in my two cents. And thanks for all the good info - I enjoy the reading...

Well based on the replies and some additional research it looks like the linkplayer is not for me. Just does not have a well developed UI for playing back ripped DVD content across it's network link. I will keep my eye on the TViX M-5000U. This may hold promise.

Regards,

Roveer...

All of my RCE disks are zone 1 so I haven't thought this all thru beyond the firmware hack. I forgot the drives are R1 in our units to start with so I don't know what a RCE coded Zone 2 for example would do. If you have another zone disk with problems let us know how it turns out,

OK, well, reporting back: My machine is a zone 1 (North America) machine. I switched it to zone 2 (using slowback 46462), and it played a region 2 disk. In this state, as expected, it would not play a region 1 disk. I then switched it back to zone 1 (using slowback 46461), and it played region 1 disks again. This is with the stock loader.

It's possible, I suppose, that what it's doing is changing the LOADER's firmware to these other regions...in which case if there's the usual RPC limit on the loader, you can only do this 4 or 5 times, and then you're stuck...I haven't tried THAT particular experiment!

Why set it to Region 2?

Set it to Region 0. It will then play whatever you throw at it!

Why set it to Region 2?

Set it to Region 0. It will then play whatever you throw at it!

Have you tried that on this particular machine? I did, and it wouldn't play ANYTHING (except the Region 1 disks that it plays anyway).

Yes, I use it that way to play both PAL and discs from Japan that I own. Works fine.

Yes, I use it that way to play both PAL and discs from Japan that I own. Works fine.

Strange; is that with the stock loader, or have you put in a 167T or something else?

If you have the opportunity to try a Region 2 disk, I'd be interested to hear the result.

I think I read somewhere that it does not play SACD CDs - is this true?
If it doesn't, can it be converted to a SACD player through future firmware updates?
How about DVD-Audio?
Are there any "hack"codes to add SACD/DVD-Audio to it?As far as I'm aware Sigma's EM8620L chip-set does support and cannot be made to support SACD or DVD-A (although I seem to remember support for DVD-A was originally "pencilled" into the chip-sets design a couple of years ago).

That said, because the AVLP2 does not have an 6Ch analogue output stage, there would be no way the player could output full 6Ch SACD and/or DVD-A streams to an external surround-sound amplifier anyway :eek:


Cheers

Thanks Digital - I appreciate the quick feedback.

I just got a great deal on DSOTM Hybrid SACD and was hoping to play it in the Linkplayer - I guess I'll just try it in my internal cd/dvd drives.

Best Regards

As far as I'm aware the only chip-set that supports SACD and DVD-A "hardware" decoding are from MediaTek's MT1389xx range.

However, although the above mentioned chip-set(s) can be found in many, many players, not all will offer SACD and DVD-A decoding due to licensing and/or firmware constraints ;)


Cheers

as the new pro model has shipped I am wondering if anyone is going to sell their old linkplayer2 hopefully with the upgraded loader and component video mod!! MSG me

as the new pro model has shipped I am wondering if anyone is going to sell their old linkplayer2 hopefully with the upgraded loader and component video mod!! MSG meWhich "Pro" model is this?


Cheers

AVeL LinkPlayer "Kuro-Obi" (JVC's SRDVD-100U)

AVeL LinkPlayer "Kuro-Obi" (JVC's SRDVD-100U)I'm not aware that this player has been officially launched yet.... Can you confirm?


Cheers

go to the avel USA forums and some people have them already. PC connection,Bh photo and others have stock.

I'm not aware that this player has been officially launched yet.... Can you confirm?


Cheers


A few new owners are talking about it on Iodata's forum -- we are still waiting to find out if it does better than black on DVI-HDCP. It does sound like it has a great picture on the DVI for TS files and WMV-HD.

What they have told us is that it has many of the same quirks as todays LP2 and that it upscales on both DVI-HDCP and Component (not simultaneously). It also sounds like the config menu has several new PAL modes compared with the LP2.

I am selling my LP2 on ebay if anyone is looking for one. Thanks everyone for all the useful information I learned here. I am now the happy owner of a hacked Directv HD HR10-250 DVR. I can backup all my videos to my computer then stream them back so I don't have a need for the LP2 anymore. It was very useful while I had it and I look forward to a more mature product in the future.

The latest Version: 10-88-051027-02-IOD-234-000 + the LinkServer V2.0 Beta seem to be the best and solid version so far. I saw a huge improvement of processing the DTS, AC3 and codecs unknown issue. Server software doesn't eat up too much CPU resource like before. Also, those garbage signal show up on my DLP is now gone.

Adam

From what I can see from the players "User's Manual".....

The crappy D4 component video output connector has been ditched - which is a big plus. But sadly, there is no 6Ch analogue audio output stage - which is a big minus!

Meaning...... this player is not capable of offering discrete 6Ch WMA Pro and/or 6Ch AAC audio (without some kind of compromise solution) and will most likely suffer from the same WMV9 issues as the AVLP2 and Buffalo players.

Apart from the DVI output, the SRDVD-100U is bringing us nothing new.... Sufficed to say the SnaZio SZ1350 (and its clones) offers more "connection" flexibility :(


Cheers

Apart from the DVI output, the SRDVD-100U is bringing us nothing new.... Sufficed to say the SnaZio SZ1350 (and its clones) offers more "connection" flexibility :(


Since the Snazio allows DVI Digital upconversion of Copy protected DVDs without supporting HDCP it violates the DVD CCA for manufacturers -- that means in the US and many other markets (eg Germany and Japan) it could be restricted from import very easily if other manufacturers started to complain. That is a huge advantage for the JVC -- it is a legal implementation that allows us to upconvert on digital outs.

If any of these players want to make significant amounts of money they will need to be legal implemtations or they will eventually be shut down (or maybe they just won't be allowed a future license for HD-DVD, Blueray, etc.


There is a reason Zensonic is trying so hard to get their HDCP certification -- it can greatly increase distribution posiblities.

The latest Version: 10-88-051027-02-IOD-234-000 + the LinkServer V2.0 Beta seem to be the best and solid version so far. I saw a huge improvement of processing the DTS, AC3 and codecs unknown issue. Server software doesn't eat up too much CPU resource like before. Also, those garbage signal show up on my DLP is now gone.

Adam


I agree -- I played around with several TS files that I know are not compliant with ATSC standards that gave earlier firmware problems and they played better with this version as well.

Hi Paul,

As far as I'm aware there is no such thing as: -

"a legal implementation that allows us to upconvert on digital outs."

Not for video that has been copyright protected anyway. The only "legal" way of offering "up-conversion" is by implementing HDCP.

And with regard to my comment about the SnaZio's "connection" flexibility. I was actually referring to the players 6Ch analogue outputs and scart connector. Which are not available on the JVC ;)


Cheers

FAQ has been updated with new firmware and server software info.

EDIT: Hi SMD! ;)

Hi Paul,

As far as I'm aware there is no such thing as: -

"a legal implementation that allows us to upconvert on digital outs."

Not for video that has been copyright protected anyway. The only "legal" way of offering "up-conversion" is by implementing HDCP.

Cheers

That is what the JVC player has -- HDCP -- that makes it legal.

Snazio doesn't have it. Zensonic will have it as well.

That is what the JVC player has -- HDCP -- that makes it legal.

Snazio doesn't have it. Zensonic will have it as well.I was of the opinion that the SnaZio player was shipped with HDCP.... Which can be circumvented with information provided (by popular demand) by Hi-Jack

Hi SMD! ;) Hi Kermee


Cheers

I was of the opinion that the SnaZio player was shipped with HDCP.... Which can be circumvented with information provided (by popular demand) by Hi-Jack


No by default it shuts off the the output if playing a DVD at any resolutions greater than 480p even if you have a TV with HDCP. With the Snazio provided cheat it lets the DVI be on at any resolution with at any source.

See q21 in the snazio faq.

"Q21. Can I play a CSS DVDs up to 720P or 1080i?

A. No. "

No by default it shuts off the the output if playing a DVD at any resolutions greater than 480p even if you have a TV with HDCP. With the Snazio provided cheat it lets the DVI be on at any resolution with at any source.

See q21 in the snazio faq.

"Q21. Can I play a CSS DVDs up to 720P or 1080i?

A. No. "Yep... but the catch here is.....

How many "DVI" TV's/displays do you know that are HDCP capable.... I don't know of any, I only know of "HDMI" TV's/displays that are HDCP capable :eek:

And if there are the odd number of TV's/displays that are HDCP capable.... has anybody thought to hook up a SnaZio player to them to?


Cheers

Just for reference, my InFocus 4805 supports HDCP over DVI. Been using an HDMI to DVI adapter on the Z500.

Yep... but the catch here is.....

How many "DVI" TV's/displays do you know that are HDCP capable.... I don't know of any, I only know of "HDMI" TV's/displays that are HDCP capable :eek:


At least every US Samsung DLP or LCD TV with DVI since early 2003 has had it. It's been the same with all of the Mitsubishi's and Sonys and Toshibas I've seen since then also.

Since HD is only showing up in broadcast this month in Europe I don't know if the TV's over there just left it off but DVI-HDCP has been a force here for some time. HDMI here just added the concept that it was not an option like it was for DVI.

I'm using latest Avel Linkeserver and cannot stream Terminator 2 smoothly.
It is a WMV-HD + WMA Pro Audio.

Can another 3rd party server software run this better?

Yep... but the catch here is.....

How many "DVI" TV's/displays do you know that are HDCP capable.... I don't know of any, I only know of "HDMI" TV's/displays that are HDCP capable :eek:

And if there are the odd number of TV's/displays that are HDCP capable.... has anybody thought to hook up a SnaZio player to them to?


Cheers

Sanyo Z2 does HDCP over DVI. Snazio doesn't do HDCP though (a good thing!) which is why they initially disable upscaling of DVDs over DVI -- the DVD Forum don't like it if there's no HDCP protection of upscaled DVDs.

The latest Version: 10-88-051027-02-IOD-234-000 + the LinkServer V2.0 Beta seem to be the best and solid version so far. I saw a huge improvement of processing the DTS, AC3 and codecs unknown issue. Server software doesn't eat up too much CPU resource like before. Also, those garbage signal show up on my DLP is now gone.

Adam

Is this new software since Sunday or did you get the new player?

BTW, Great theater you have

Sanyo Z2 does HDCP over DVI. Snazio doesn't do HDCP though (a good thing!) which is why they initially disable upscaling of DVDs over DVI -- the DVD Forum don't like it if there's no HDCP protection of upscaled DVDs.

It's a better thing that the JVC(IODATA) does HDCP. (It doesn't need any backdoor cheats like the Snazio has).

Is this new software since Sunday or did you get the new player?

BTW, Great theater you have
Yeah. Just release last night and can't be happier. Again huge improvement.
Thanks for your help on the Mod. So, lastest firmware+2.0 server software+Mod is out of this world good.

I stand corrected... and I apologise for my ignorance

So it would seem all you guys living in countries who are already enjoying HDTV broadcasts do indeed have DVI capable displays with HDCP...

Over here in Euroland we are gearing ourselves up for (MPEG-4/AVC) HDTV DVB2 broadcasts.... However, if the designs of some of the early protype STB's are to be believed, it looks like they'll be fitted with HDMI sockets (not DVI) and will also be puking out an HDCP signal.


Cheers

I'm using latest Avel Linkeserver and cannot stream Terminator 2 smoothly.
It is a WMV-HD + WMA Pro Audio.

Can another 3rd party server software run this better?I'm surprised you are able to play this media at all.

What method did you use to rip the files from the WMV9 HD DVD to your PC's HDD?


Cheers

NEW FIRMWARE - 10/31/05

Seems to clean up the dark images for some TS files as well as improve apparent resolution for 1080i output. I have not done the resistor mode, and this firmware update appears to have sharpened up the 1080i output quite a bit. Can't tell for 720p as I wasn't using that resolution.

I for one would be estatic if it brightened the output. Output was amazingly dim on many files using the old firmware. I'll definately check out the update tonight.

I for one would be estatic if it brightened the output. Output was amazingly dim on many files using the old firmware. I'll definately check out the update tonight.

To me it is still too dark (compared to several firmwares back). My set can adjust for it but if I was sharing it's component port I would have to be constantly adjusting brightness levels.

Hi Guys

I just bought the JVC 's SRDVD-100U ProHD DVD player, same as the I-O Data AVeL LinkPlayer2.

I find the manual a little short. I wish they offered a quick cheat sheet on hooking this up.

I hooked up the cable to my network and it sees everything just fine but I still do not see any menu or anything to set this up. Ive looked through the manual and pictures on the box and nothing. Do I have to have something else going beteen the PC and the player. Im confused. At this point I cannot use it.

Also my servers in my HT room are not connected to the internet. I do all my recordings and back ups on another PC and transfer everything to my servers. Not being connected to the internet will this not allow me to play my Microsoft WM9 Discs now.
I also tried using this right out of the box as a stand alone dvd player and no go. I still see nothing on the screen. So far not impressed:)

Any help is appreciated.

Welcome to the world of network streamers.

If you don't have a picture do you at least have text displaying on the units LCD screen?

If so, try the TV Mode button slowly to cycle thru video modes until you get a picture.

If nothing on the LCD you may have a dud, or something may have come loose inside the case.

On note the power button is slow -- truning on takes severall seconds after pressing the button on the remote.

If you eventually get a picture use the config button on the remote to bring up the config menu -- in there you can store the default start up video mode and whether your tv is 16:9 or not among other preferences.

Not being connected to the internet will prevent the player from getting firmware updates but otherwise playing media stored on your pcs should work fine, (if DRM-WMV9 you need to set up windows media connect on an XP machine to do the license management for you).

Hi Paul, what is default output on this, component or dvi.

Thanks for your helpful input.

Hi Paul, what is default output on this, component or dvi.

Thanks for your helpful input.

With the LP2 it defaulted to s-video at 480i. With every new firmware upgrade it tends to drop back to the default so IODATA gets alot of the dreaded no-picture reports.

One thing about cycling the video modes there are lots of them (and I assume even more on the JVC) since they cycle thru PAL modes as well as NTSC and HD modes (I assume it will cycle both component settings and DVI settings on yours).

Thanks again Paul.

I got it going, component 720P.

I am not plugged into my PC because I do not have a ethernet card in my PC. My PC is connected to a modem via usb. Ill have to buy a card now to tie into my PC. I can play the trailers on WM9 but not the movie yet. What a difference when going from WM9 back to DVD. DVD looks terrible. You can really see all the mpeg artifacts via my 50" plasma.

Once I get this tied to my PC Ill be able to have fun with it. I want to take advantage of WM9 so Im leaving this downstairs. Its the only place I have internet connection.

Thanks again.

With the new firmware, did everyone else lose the ability to scoll through outputs with TV Mode button? I get "Invalid".

Yup, I also lost the ability to scroll through the outputs.

I have Seinfeld dvds that are presented in full screen - but I used to be able to still watch them in a wide screen mode (images are usually a little wider) when I would scroll through the outputs to 1080i, then scroll through the zoom button 5 times so it's back to a normal picture, but the full screen now would be presented in widescreen. Now all I get is "invalid". I'm REALLY disappointed that I can't stretch full screen dvds to widescreen - not thrilled with black bars on the side.

Yup, I also lost the ability to scroll through the outputs.

I have Seinfeld dvds that are presented in full screen - but I used to be able to still watch them in a wide screen mode (images are usually a little wider) when I would scroll through the outputs to 1080i, then scroll through the zoom button 5 times so it's back to a normal picture, but the full screen now would be presented in widescreen. Now all I get is "invalid". I'm REALLY disappointed that I can't stretch full screen dvds to widescreen - not thrilled with black bars on the side.

I haven't noticed any problems switching between modes and zooming after upgrading the firmware.

Did you remember to go back into setup and switch your TV-Type back to 16:9 after updating to the latest firmware?

I'll re-check it tonight but I'm pretty sure it's still set to 16:9 - I usually check all settings after updates.

When I have the player in 1080i, my XBR locks into Full Screen mode so I don't have the opportunity to scroll through the tv modes - just the player zoom option - even though it displays widescreen. Kind of hard to explain - when I had the LG upconverting dvd player, it did the same thing when displaying in 1080i, so I just thought this was normal.

I haven't noticed any problems switching between modes and zooming after upgrading the firmware.

Did you remember to go back into setup and switch your TV-Type back to 16:9 after updating to the latest firmware?

I did.

I'm surprised you are able to play this media at all.

What method did you use to rip the files from the WMV9 HD DVD to your PC's HDD?


Cheers

I'm sorry but I can't take credit for that. I picked it up from a newsgroup I belong to :)

NEW FIRMWARE - 10/31/05

Seems to clean up the dark images for some TS files as well as improve apparent resolution for 1080i output. I have not done the resistor mode, and this firmware update appears to have sharpened up the 1080i output quite a bit. Can't tell for 720p as I wasn't using that resolution.


I do not have a before and after to look at but I feel the levels are brighter and passably sharper. Could just be the xtra brightness throwing me off. I still have the issue with HD clips freezing or the audio breaking up. I do have the filter mod.

NEW FIRMWARE - 10/31/05

it seems to me that i lost some of the buffering speed, have trouble stream mpeg2 720x480 at 8000mbps, also the player is not responding as quickly as before with the august firmware, don't know if I need to apdate the server to version 2.00 too?
does anybody have similar problems?

Making sense of the replies on the I-O Data USA board can be a little difficult sometimes. Could someone here please give a quick and dirty about the situation vis-a-vis WMV HD DRM playback? Reading posts earlier in this thread I get the impression that it was to be implemented come Spring this year, yet nothing seems to have happened.

I'm trying to play an .avi file and get the message "GMC not supported", it won't play in Advanced Server either, is there anything I can do?

I'm trying to play an .avi file and get the message "GMC not supported", it won't play in Advanced Server either, is there anything I can do?Sounds like you have an MPEG-4 in .AVI file that contains 3-warp-point GMC..... So it was most probably generated using the XviD codec!

The Sigma chip-set does not support 3-warp-point GMC, only 1-warp-point GMC, as originally developed for use by DivX for its certification program ;)


Cheers

I'm trying to play an .avi file and get the message "GMC not supported", it won't play in Advanced Server either, is there anything I can do?Does the video play in the machine AS is running on? If so, you may have not enabled AVI transcoding in Advanced Server.

Does the video play in the machine AS is running on? If so, you may have not enabled AVI transcoding in Advanced Server.

I've enabled it, and I don't get an error message, but it doesn't play. Computer performance immediately spikes up to 100%. A post over on IoData forum says it will take a "very powerful machine" to play these. I certainly don't have that.

Is there a way to convert these files to "normal" .avi's?

For the upscaling feature, does this player need to be hooked up to the digital component cable (where my HD DVR receiver is plugged into) input or would a regular component cable input would work?

Making sense of the replies on the I-O Data USA board can be a little difficult sometimes. Could someone here please give a quick and dirty about the situation vis-a-vis WMV HD DRM playback? Reading posts earlier in this thread I get the impression that it was to be implemented come Spring this year, yet nothing seems to have happened.

No takers? plz?

For the upscaling feature, does this player need to be hooked up to the digital component cable (where my HD DVR receiver is plugged into) input or would a regular component cable input would work?


I thought all component was analog so inputing into any compnent input that does 720p or 1080i should work.

I thought all component was analog so inputing into any compnent input that does 720p or 1080i should work.Agreed....

The DVI output is able to pass component video signals and they are analogue in nature!

One of the reasons why a "fully wired" DVI lead is so thick is because the cables passing the analogue signals have to be double insulated ;)


Cheers

I thought all component was analog so inputing into any compnent input that does 720p or 1080i should work.
That's what I thought, thanks. Looks like I need to buy a switch since my TV only has one HD component input. Why put 3 component inputs on the TV but only 1 of them has a 1080i capability is beyond me.

Another question for you guys. When you view a downloaded HDTV show in xvid form, how does it show on the player? Does it go to widescreen format & stay in HD quailty, (only reason I'm saying that is it looks pretty damn good on my PC) or stay in SD?

That's what I thought, thanks. Looks like I need to buy a switch since my TV only has one HD component input. Why put 3 component inputs on the TV but only 1 of them has a 1080i capability is beyond me.

Another question for you guys. When you view a downloaded HDTV show in xvid form, how does it show on the player? Does it go to widescreen format & stay in HD quailty, (only reason I'm saying that is it looks pretty damn good on my PC) or stay in SD?

It's widescreen and looks pretty damn good.

Not HD quality like the Discovery Channel, but better than DVD if the source is good.

I'm surprised you are able to play this media at all.

What method did you use to rip the files from the WMV9 HD DVD to your PC's HDD?


Cheers

According to this thread:

http://www.iodata.com/usa/forum/showthread.php?t=186

you can indeed play HD WMV DRM files on the Linkplayer2 provided you install Windows Media Connect first, and follow the instructions in post #5. I also found out that the DRM file must be played in Windows Media Player before you play it on the Linkplayer2, otherwise the required license cannot be obtained.

However, the files do not play smoothly, but rather stuttering as SeeMoreDigital finds. My PC (P4 3.2 GHz, 1 G RAM) plays the non-DRM files smoothly, so the problem must be related to the DRM as far as I can tell. Nevertheless, a breakthrough to have the Linkplayer accept them at all.

According to this thread:

http://www.iodata.com/usa/forum/showthread.php?t=186

you can indeed play HD WMV DRM files on the Linkplayer2 provided you install Windows Media Connect first, and follow the instructions in post #5.

Actually, I wrote those instructions in post #5 a while back. They are somewhat obsolete. It seems that the latest version of Linkserver does NOT have a "uPnP" option anymore. But that's ok, because the LinkPlayer itself (at least more recent firmware revisions) is now uPnP-capable. You no longer have to run Linkserver on your PC in order to connect to uPnP servers. (like wmc)

I too have been able to "play" DRM wmv material. (Terminator2 extreme edition). I put "play" in quotes because while I can now get past the license issue, it doesn't really play all that well on LP2. I setup a wmc "share" of the DVD directory that held all the .wmv files, and played them via wmc. But the jerkiness makes it unwatchable, and the sound cuts out most of the time anyways. In addition, the player does not seem to recognize that this is an anamorphic title (1440x1080). People appear too skinny, because LP2 does not apply correct aspect ratio. None of the LP2 "scale" modes helped.

But it is a baby step forward, I guess...

Hmmm when I tried to share the Coral reef DVD, the LP2 would only let me play the clips on the DVD but not the DRM movie. Even when I copied the movie to My videos and tried to share it was a no go. Im starting to think DRM was created inorder to kill the WMVHD format. IF I own the Da$n DVD I should be able to play it on whatever I want. :rolleyes:

Hmmm when I tried to share the Coral reef DVD, the LP2 would only let me play the clips on the DVD but not the DRM movie. Even when I copied the movie to My videos and tried to share it was a no go. Im starting to think DRM was created inorder to kill the WMVHD format. IF I own the Da$n DVD I should be able to play it on whatever I want. :rolleyes:

When playing T2, it wouldn't let me play the DRM content at first either. I had to run the "install.exe" program on the DVD, and then force license acquisition using windows media player. Once I got WMP to attempt to play it on the PC, then I was able to acquire a license on Linkplayer. But, like I said, it plays pretty horribly. MUCH worse than any of the non-DRM WMV-HD files I have played. I suspect that if it weren't for DRM, it would play just fine.

- Frank

When playing T2, it wouldn't let me play the DRM content at first either. I had to run the "install.exe" program on the DVD, and then force license acquisition using windows media player. Once I got WMP to attempt to play it on the PC, then I was able to acquire a license on Linkplayer. But, like I said, it plays pretty horribly. MUCH worse than any of the non-DRM WMV-HD files I have played. I suspect that if it weren't for DRM, it would play just fine.

- Frank

I think Coral reef is a different animal. It supposed to have on disk DRM and not need to aquire a license. Im new to a lot of this, but DRM seems like its actually slowing acceptance of movies in WMVHD. Who's going to buy such a thing if its this hard to get it working without a computer sitting next to your tv?

I think Coral reef is a different animal. It supposed to have on disk DRM and not need to aquire a license. Im new to a lot of this, but DRM seems like its actually slowing acceptance of movies in WMVHD. Who's going to buy such a thing if its this hard to get it working without a computer sitting next to your tv?

So far there are three very different DRM methods Microsoft has used for WMVHD.

1- Terminator method -- developed by the movie studio and Interactual.
2- The on disc method -- used by Coral Reef and the IMAX moviies.
3- Network DRM method for on demand downloads from places like CinemaNow.

Iodata has said method 1 will never work. 2 is somewhat working using Windows Media Connect but it is far from usable, 3 is the one they keep saying is coming and is what they really hope to get players like this to take off.

Video rentals over broadband that work well will sell lots of these players but it has to actually work.

So far there are three very different DRM methods Microsoft has used for WMVHD.

1- Terminator method -- developed by the movie studio and Interactual.
2- The on disc method -- used by Coral Reef and the IMAX moviies.
3- Network DRM method for on demand downloads from places like CinemaNow.

Iodata has said method 1 will never work.

Does that mean that for "Terminator method", the DRM won't work with LP2, or the file won't play on LP2? I know it is getting past the license acquisition, because it says "acquiring license" and then starts to play. (albeit badly...) So to me, it looks like the DRM is actually working. It was allowed to play the title. So what is it exactly that will "never work"? Smooth playback?

- Frank

Hi Guys

I have the JVC version of this machine. I am having trouble getting connected to my PC/internet.

My HTPC is connected to the internet/modem via USB. I connected the DVD player to the PC via ethernet cable. Ive added the correct IP address and all that good stuff and nothing. Do I have to have router in between. According to the manual I do not but I cannot get this working. Help??

Thanks!

You actually have not setup a proper "lan" for your PC and player. You might be able to get away with direct ethernet cable between your PC and Player, but you may need an ethernet "crossover" cable. (unless your PC jack is auto-configuring...) Or, you can put a simple switch/hub in there and connect the two to the switch. Make sure the PC port static ip address is configured on the same "network" as the player (192.168.100.xx, or something), and they should be able to see each other.

If you want the player to also have access to the internet, you may have to setup ICS on the PC.

A router, of course, would be a simpler solution. (Attach router to cable modem, then set it up as DHCP client. Plug PC and Player into the router, and configure both for "auto" ip address. The devices will be assigned addresses by the router, and share internet connectivity. You won't need to have ICS running on PC, or even have PC running, for player to see the internet...)

Video rentals over broadband that work well will sell lots of these players but it has to actually work.

I've rented DivX videos which worked nicely with Linkplayer. I would have rented more but the rental outlet was poor at indicating which DivX rentals work on the standalone players and which only on a computer. These were SD but they could be doing HD as well. My DivX encoding of HD material looked superior to my WMV encodings. Microsoft has got itself into a tangled knot trying to be so secure with their DRMs. I even bet that Hollywood will shoot itself in the foot being overly secure with DRM on HD-DVDs and many will return players and disks when they don't always work causing a big outcry in the community.

More re. jerkiness of DRM HD playback:

I have just made an interesting observation. As my upstairs neigbours have their bedroom directly over my HT :D I was playing around with the Linkplayer without turning the amplifier on. Whether or not this was what caused it, I was now able to play the Ray and Friday Night Lights DRM clips completely smoothly. Could this possibly indicate that the problem arises when the LP2 has to process video, audio and DRM at the same time? With the amp turned off, could this put less strain on the LP2 processing power?

More re. jerkiness of DRM HD playback:

I have just made an interesting observation. As my upstairs neigbours have their bedroom directly over my HT :D I was playing around with the Linkplayer without turning the amplifier on. Whether or not this was what caused it, I was now able to play the Ray and Friday Night Lights DRM clips completely smoothly. Could this possibly indicate that the problem arises when the LP2 has to process video, audio and DRM at the same time? With the amp turned off, could this put less strain on the LP2 processing power?

that shouldn't make a difference but it may mean your amp or your speaker wires are passing near your ethernet cable and causing io errors that slow down your network.

Any chance of playing the new mpeg4 format on the LP2 that D* will be using? Files should be a lot smaller.

I reccived my AVLP2 yesterday, did a quick check of functional behavior using a Crossover LAN connection to the PC and all seemed well - able to play video files from the PC as well as the USB hard drive.

The firmware as delivered is really old (03-19-041018...) so I pressed the setup button, selected FW Update, selected "Check for firmware update" while the PC was connected to the internet, after about 20 seconds, I get message "Cannot Connect to Web Site Specified".

I tried agoin with *ALL* of my firewall, mail protection, etc.etc turned off - same result. I tried bridging the Network with the Dial-up connection in "Network Connections" screen but XP does not want to do it (only allows bridging between LANs).

Where am I going wrong here? Updating firmware should not be this difficult...

John

You need to setup ICS (Internet Connection Sharing) on your PC. Then when the PC is connected to the internet, it will share the connection with your LAN.

Quick google search found this "howto":
http://www.helpwithwindows.com/WindowsXP/ics.html

Potus,
Thank you for your quick response.

I had googled on ICS and got the impression that XP had renamed this as "Bridging." Clearly wrong.

However, the instructions from your link, to set up ICS, fail at step 3: When I select Properties on my Netscape network connection, if I am not connected, it connects and I get NO dialog box to continue and if I am connected, nothing happens - I just get NO dialog box.

I created a second internet Dial-up connection and was able to enable ICS. Was annoyed that it had thrown away my computer network's IP address and replaced it with a "hard" IP = 192.168.0.1. (I thought the computer industry quit using absolute addressing more then 40 years ago.)

Lest I digress too far, even after I setup the AVLP2 to the new IP, it was no longer functional (error = "Wake on LAN") but I ignored this and hit the setup button again and was amazed to find that Firmware update worked now!

Spent the next two hours downloading each firmware update in sequence until I completed the seventh (version 06-35-050430...), which took almost three times as long as the previous downloads.

After this jewel was installed, nothing worked.

My computer is no longer listed as selectable/connectable to log in to.
Online Premium Contents is presented instead. Both Media Server Portal and Vtuner result in the "Can't find Website" error. I also noticed that my Lan is now listed as shared with High Speed Internet, which I do not have.

So I am stuck again and can't either rollback the FW or download the next one, which probably fixes the bug.

I know that somewhere in this forum others had problems with this firmware update but searching on the release number yields way too many false positives.

Will somebody please point me at the solution to this problem?

John

No. Wait.

After hacking around randomly in desperation (possibly just setting AVLP2 IP back to manual with its original IP address), somehow, I was able to restart the Firmware update 08-74-050622... dated 6/24/05

After this was installed, the next available update is 10-88-051027.. dated 10/31/05, which I see users have had problems with, so I stopped before installing it.

PROBLEM: My computer is still not presented by AVLP2 as something that can be connected to. Local functions work fine: I can play anything from the USB hard disk or DVD.

This product is a hacker's paradise... :rolleyes:

John

Edit Update, I went ahead and installed 10-88-051027... Online premium contents now functions and is clearly using the network connection (as did the firmware update). However, AVLP2 still does not present my computer - or the AVL Server as a candidate for login.

Server Update???

jchunter_2

Have you updated the server software. I'm using 1.9, but I believe 2.0 is available

I had to manually type in the IP address for the advanced server. Although the regular server (I am using 2.oE) was directly recognized I would assume you could also just add it by typing in the computer's IP as well

Bought the three disc Total Recall R2 release, which I'm sure most here are aware contains a HD WMV version on disc 3. I can play the movie using the LP2 drive, and over the network using either AVeL Link Server or Windows Media Connect (no DRM). Problem is, the default soundtrack seems to be the German language dub, and as there is no menu available playing it this way, I don't know how to choose the English track. Playing it on the PC using the (what I assume is the) proprietary player on the disc, I can choose the English soundtrack just like on an ordinary DVD.

Anybody know if the English language option is available playing it from the LP2?

Interestingly, BTW, the HD version looks vastly inferior to the DVD. I managed to sync them up, playing the DVD from my upscaling Philips player via HDMI. Skin colours looked way too reddish on the HD version, and I could discern no detail that wasn't visible on the DVD. Nothing to my eyes told me that this was HD. Curiously, the two discs stayed in sync for the duration of the movie - I had expected them to drift apart quickly due to PAL speedup. Apparently the HD master also suffers from the same speedup.

Anybody know if the English language option is available playing it from the LP2?


Try hitting the button marked "audio" on the remote. This button can be used to select audio tracks when playing DVDs without using the audio select menu. Maybe it will switch tracks on HD streams as well.

Try hitting the button marked "audio" on the remote. This button can be used to select audio tracks when playing DVDs without using the audio select menu. Maybe it will switch tracks on HD streams as well.
Thank you, but this only toggles between left, right, and stereo. As picture quality as I mentioned is rather poor, the DVD version is probably the one I will be playing anyway.

Is the LinkPlayer2 MP3 PRO compatible?

I've never seen anything written that confirms that. But I listen to an MP3 pro radio station and the sound (at least to me) seems to be a lot better that the 64 kbps stream normally would provide.

http://www.beatlesarama.com/listen/winamp.pls

Anyone else notice this?
TIM

Testing the AVLP2 with the latest (10-88…) firmware as a stand-alone unit with a USB2 hard disk.*

I constructed a series of about a dozen one-minute test videos that were rendered with a variety of video bitrates, frame sizes, interlaced, progressive, etc. with the objective of comparing the picture resolution displayed on my 58” rear projection HDTV (Pioneer HD-610).

The source material for the test videos consisted of the official ISO 12233 Video Resolution chart,** a moving test video,*** a high definition video clip,**** and several of my own better digital pictures.

The Test video files played identically whether stored on the USB hard disk or as data file from a DVD.

Resolution Test Results. Resolution scores (more is better) are read from the ISO chart as horizontal / vertical resolution.

Test# _ Format __ Frame Size __ PC***** __ AVLP@480p _720p _____ 1080i

(0) ___ Mpeg2 ____720x480i _ 4.75 / 5.5 _____ -- _________-- _______4.5 / 4.5

(1) ___ Divx _____ 720x480p ___ 6 / 6 ______ 6 / 5.5 ______ 6 / 6 _____ 6 / 6

(2) ___ Divx ____ 1280x720p ___ 10 / 10 _____ 5 / 5 _____ 6 / 7.5 ___ 4.5 / 5

(3) ___ Divx ____ 1440x1080p ___11 / 11 ______ --_______ 6 / 6 ____ 6.5 / 7.5

(4) ___ Divx ____ 1920x1080p ___ 12 / 12 _____ --________ 6 / 6 ___ 6.5 / 7/5


Conclusion: Tests 2, 3, and 4 show greatly increased resolution in the PC but this increase is completely lost in the AVLP2. I think that this is a serious problem!!

Note: As I learned later, you can learn almost as much by placing a jpeg of the ISO resolution chart on the USB2 hard disk and playing it directly as a still photo.

* INOi 250GB external hard disk - $89 w/rebate at NewEgg
** These links were deleted because of forum rules for new posters :confused:

***** Virtual Dub measured resolution in the PC.
John

I'm confused by your test procedure. When you say "Virtual Dub measured resolution in the PC", are you displaying the output scaled fullscreen to the same device (Pioneer HD-610)? It is surprising that you would be able to see more than 10.8 on ANY device, since 1080i is physically limited to this resolution, having only 1080 lines of resolution.

Also, were you sure to crop the test pattern to the indicated 16:9 area? This is critical for obtaining meaningful results.

Potus,
Virtual Dub plays the file as it is defined, with the frame dimensions and pixels per frame fixed by the properties of the video file. It can't create more resolution than is in the video file. It is the best visual representation of the file that I can produce and it shows the *potential resolution* that is present in the file, if only the codec reading it is capable of pulling it out.

Now if my HDTV were severely braindamaged, I would expect lower resolution images than on the PC but it is not, AFAIK.

John

Edit: I would not try to attach absolute meaning to the resolution score numbers. They only have to be consistent relative to each other in this test to demonstrate the problem.

Potus,
Now if my HDTV were severely braindamaged, I would expect lower resolution images than on the PC but it is not, AFAIK.

John
I would not be at all surprised to find your RPTV to have lower resolution than your PC, particularly if your PC has a native 1920x1080 display, as you seem to be implying. The best test would be to drive the Pioneer RPTV from the PC directly. Then you will see what your display is capable of.

As a matter of fact, there are hardly ANY 1920x1080 "TV" displays out there. Check out the specs on some "HDTV" plasmas some time. Most top out at 1366x768. These displays would not come close to 1080 lines of resolution using your test charts.

- Frank

Potus,
Now that I have made five posts, the forum rules should permit me to pass on some links to the resolution tools that I used.

I hope that you and others will repeat my tests and try to confirm (or not) these results. My HD 610 is 6 years old now and those of you with the latest and greatest might show more resolution.

Unfortunately, my TV is on the other side of the house from my computer or I would drive it directly from the computer...

Here are the links that I had to omit from my earlier post:

* INOi 250GB external hard disk - $89 w/rebate at NewEgg.com
** Download from www.extremetech.com
*** Download Motion 1 from www.Streamqrest.com
**** Download Robotica from http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/content_provider/film/ContentShowcase.aspx )

Cheers,

John

Edit: you don't have to have a 1920x1080 PC display to measure potential resolution because you don't need to see the entire frame and in any case, V Dub will zoom it if you wish. Panning capability would help but my version does not have it.

I found this list of Pioneer sets, but couldn't find your particular model:

http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/equipment/manufacturer.php?man=Pioneer

But NONE of these would be capable of more than around 768 lines of resolution (7.68 on your charts...)

Since you have a 6 year old set, I would be willing to bet the problem lies with the set, and not the LP2.. Those figures of 6.5/7.5 you measured imply 750 lines of resolution max. That's probably all your set is capable of resolving..

- Frank

Potus,
My spec says the PRO-610HD does 1250 lines. It does not give a spec for the horizontal pixel count - probably because it uses three analog 7" CRTs. This was 1999 technology.
John

Edit: The website is www.pioneerelectronics.com and you have to look up support, etc. because it is no longer in production.

Wow. That's a really great spec. Just goes to show you how good-old-fashioned analog technology can be! I would personally still try to measure using your patterns. Perhaps the performance has degraded over the last 6 years.

I would offer to repeat the measurement on my LP2, but the best display I have is my "EDTV" projector (853x480).

Is the LinkPlayer2 MP3 PRO compatible? Sigma's EM8620L chip-set does not support MP3Pro decoding.

But it may be possible to decode MP3Pro streams in software first!

Potus,

Well, the best efforts of science failed this morning. I dragged the computer to the HDTV but could not achieve sync with any monitor setting that I could select in the PC (except on a very low res default setting) or any menu setting that I tried on the TV set. :(

However, I will state categorically that my TV set has not lost half of its resolution since it was new. Multi-point convergence is right on. If fact, it looks as great as it always did, when driven with the best quality input. :)

But we still need more objective experiments to help decide the question of where the resolution is being lost. Would you please download the Res chart (I used the Canon chart), convert it to best quality jpeg, and display it as a still photo from the AVLP2?

John

John - have you done the inductor/capacitor mod? People report pretty big improvements after that. That's one thing that has kept me from buying this unit, I don't think it's right consumers have to mod it to get a sharp HD picture.

Matt

Matt,
The measurements that I posted were all made with the LP2 as delivered, except for the firmware update. One of the reasons for making these measurements was to see if the mod was really needed and then to measure the difference in resolution with the mod.

John

John.. I just thought of something. The Pioneer is a 4:3 display, isn't it? How does the 1080i image show on this display? Are there letterboxes? If so, then a 16:9 subsection of your 4:3 display will have the equivalent spec of around 900 lines. (Assuming the 1250 spec applies to the full 4:3 display..) This might partially account for the lower than expected measurements. In letterbox display mode, your display would not be able to resolve more than 900 lines (as measured with this image...)

Potus,
No, the Pioneer is 16x9.

I'm beginning to wonder if the LP2 is downconverting HD video to 480p on the fly... It's an easy way to deal with video stalls, hiccups, etc. I'm handing it Divx, which is a VERY compressed video. The internal CPU has to work very hard to decompress this in real time.

John

Here's a spec for John's TV.... http://www.laaudiofile.com/pro610hd.html


Nice one!

SeeMoreDigital,
Thank you for finding that review. It sounds even better than I thought. Maybe I'd better keep it until LCD sets get to the same size and costs a lot less...
John

Test# _ Format __ Frame Size __ PC***** __ AVLP@480p _720p _____ 1080i

(0) ___ Mpeg2 ____720x480i _ 4.75 / 5.5 _____ -- _________-- _______4.5 / 4.5

(1) ___ Divx _____ 720x480p ___ 6 / 6 ______ 6 / 5.5 ______ 6 / 6 _____ 6 / 6

(2) ___ Divx ____ 1280x720p ___ 10 / 10 _____ 5 / 5 _____ 6 / 7.5 ___ 4.5 / 5

(3) ___ Divx ____ 1440x1080p ___11 / 11 ______ --_______ 6 / 6 ____ 6.5 / 7.5

(4) ___ Divx ____ 1920x1080p ___ 12 / 12 _____ --________ 6 / 6 ___ 6.5 / 7/5


This post confuses me since everything I can find about your set says its inputs only accept 480i, 480p, and 1080i. Also this review:
http://www.docdvd.com/index.php?module=reviews_show&category=hardware&reviewID=13656
suggests that the set can't even quite do true 1080i which seems to be confirmed by a comparison the year later with a much cheaper 1080i Mitsubishi that said the Mitsubishi was sharper for HD
(http://www.laaudiofile.com/ws65908.html)
which also sounds like the Pioneer wasn't quite 1080i (remember this is 6 years ago -- most CRTs today still can''t do true progressive HD images -back then they called anything that accepted any hd and HD set.)

One more thing: I didn't see an answer to potus' question "Also, were you sure to crop the test pattern to the indicated 16:9 area? This is critical for obtaining meaningful results."

I agree with his comment if you don't crop to 16:9 this doesn't really mean anything (since a PC screen is probably much higher res it won't see problems with the cropping being wrong as much).

Potus,
I'm beginning to wonder if the LP2 is downconverting HD video to 480p on the fly... It's an easy way to deal with video stalls, hiccups, etc. I'm handing it Divx, which is a VERY compressed video. The internal CPU has to work very hard to decompress this in real time.

John

No, it doesn't downconvert to 480p, unless you have the output set for 480p. If you have the output set to 720p, it will up/down convert everything to that res. Same goes for 1080i. The output signal is definitely 1080i when configured for 1080i. My auto-syncing projector confirms this.

Maybe your VERY compressed Divx video has lost some effective resolution as a result of the compression?

PS. Can you post the actual .jpg file that you displayed via LP2? Thanks..

I created a new, simpler, set of tests. I dropped the moving videos because it was clear that moving images can’t be any sharper than their individual frames. Unfortunately, these tests were made AFTER dahester’s res mod. So, the comparisons are going to be fuzzy (no pun intended). I downloaded a fresh copy of the ISO res chart and tweaked the brightness to give a clearer picture on the TV screen. The resolution chart extends edge to edge across the 16x9 screen.

Bottom line: There is measurable improvement in the horizontal resolution from the LP2 but it is not even close to measurements in the PC. This would rule out my speculation that LP2 was downconverting to 480p. But the possibility still exists that LP2 is not perfectly compatible with the 6.03/He-3 Divx codec.

Second Resolution Test Results. Resolution scores are read from the ISO chart as horizontal / vertical resolution.

Test#__Format__Frame Size___PC (Virtual Dub)___LP2

(1) ____ Divx __ 720x480p ______ 6 / 6 _________ 6 / 6

(2) ____ Divx __ 1280x720p _____ 10 / 10 _______ 8 / 6

(3) ____ Divx __ 1440x1080p ____ 11 / 11 _______ 8.5 / 7

(4) ____ Divx __ 1920x1080p ____ 12 / 12 _______ 8.5 /6 (shimmers)

(5) ____ Divx __ 1920x1080i ____ _12 / 12 _______ 8.5 /6 (shimmers) not sure file is really interlaced


John

Potus, Download Canon version of ISO res chart from
Edit: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/samples/rescharts/canon_eos10d.jpg .

Paul, the Pioneer does 720p.

Download Canon version of ISO res chart from http://www.extremetech.com/ I'm unable to find this chart :(

Are you able to provide a direct link?


Cheers

Sorry, I thought I downloaded a bmp from this site but can't find it now. Here is another source - already converted to jpeg with even better resolution: 3072x2048: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/samples/rescharts/canon_eos10d.jpg

John

I created a new, simpler, set of tests. I dropped the moving videos because
...

But the possibility still exists that LP2 is not perfectly compatible with the 6.03/He-3 Divx codec.


I am confused.. You said you dropped the moving videos. So how does Divx enter into the picture here? Aren't you just displaying the .jpgs as still photos on the LP2? Or are you referring to previous test that showed strange anomoly at 720p? That one probably IS LP2's fault.

It still looks to me like you may be reaching limit of your display.

Is there any "zoom" function on your display? This might allow you to see more of the input detail. My Sony HS420 has something like this. I can clearly see more detail when I zoom up, showing me a little more of what is delivered to the input.

And while you posted a very large image, I assume you downsampled this to 1920x1080 .jpg format before displaying, right?

I'll try to display a downsampled version of that image on my LP2 and let you know what I find out. (though I have serious reservations about the capabilities of my displays) My LP2 is still un-modified, so this might be useful info..

What happens when you view these Test Card Stills (http://81.98.148.105/Uploaded_Files/AVS_Forum_files/Test_Card_Stills_From_SMD.7z) at different output resolutions with your I-O DATA player?


Cheers

Potus,
Video Studio and Divx enter the picture because they scale (downsample) the image to the specified frame dimensions, video bitrates, and then compress everything to the specified compression properties.

Compression is essential because I am very interested in the final displayed resolution of Divx files. Since these are 20% to 30% of the size of Mpeg2 HDV files, up to 2 hours of high definition video can potentially be saved on an ordinary DVD platter.

After I settle the resolution question, I want to look at other factors affecting image quality, so at that point I will reintroduce the moving videos to look for compression artifacts, etc.

John

SeeMore,
When I view ISO 12233 canon_eos10d.jpg as an image from the LP2 (setup as 1080i, Full Screen), the image fills the screen top to botom and has narrow black bars on left and right. I read about 6 / 6 for a resolution score, which suggests that LP2 firmware is not scaling the image according to the 1080 setup - instead, probably scaling to 480p. Must have been coincidence that resolution was the same as Divx HD video before. The Zoom button on the LP2 control has no effect... (one of many, many bugs).
John

SeeMore,
When I view ISO 12233 canon_eos10d.jpg as an image from the LP2 (setup as 1080i, Full Screen), the image fills the screen top to botom and has narrow black bars on left and right.Given the Canon "still" image has a resolution of 3072x2048 pixels, which equates to a square pixel aspect ratio of 1.5:1, I would expect to see "narrow black bars on left and right"

Only an "still" image with pixels equating to a square pixel aspect ratio of 1.7777:1 (aka: 16:9) would completely fill an 16:9 screen ;)


Cheers

For anyone who wants to have a "fun" :D holiday, here are step by step instructions for creating your own Divx HD resolution test files.

Simple Resolution Test Video Procedure:
I used Ulead Video Studio 9.0 with the HDV plugin and Divx 6.3/He-3 codec installed to create the video files with different frame dimensions and video bitrates. In Edit mode, I set the Aspect Ratio property to 16x9, Preferences/Edit Tab/Image Resampling option to “Fit to Project”, (which stretches the chart to fit the frame). Drag the ISO12233 chart jpeg directly into the timeline at full resolution and save the project. Set image duration to 10 seconds or so. You can add a short HD clip (Mpeg2 HDV, m2t, WMV9, ..) just for fun.

Then select SHARE/Create Video File.
Select Custom, select SaveAs “Microsoft AVI files”
Select Options
Select AVI Tab/Compression/”Divx He-3 codec”
Press Configure button
Main Tab:
_ Select High Definition profile (for 720lines) or Unconstrained (for 1080)
_ Select Bitrate based, Encode Mode = One Pass, 3000kbps (for 720) or 5000kbps (for 1080)
Codec Tab: Select Insane Quality
Video Tab: Select User Defined Frame, enter frame dimensions: 720x480, 1280x720, 1440x1080, or 1920x1080.
_ _ Resize Filter Bicubic Normal. Click OK to save these settings.

AVI Tab on Video Save Options window Set Audio properties. I used mp3 and it worked with the LP2
General Tab on Video Save Options window
_ Select Frame type = Frame Based (for progressing) or = Lower Field First (for interlaced digital video)
_ Select Frame size =User defined and enter frame dimensions to match those you entered in the Divx Video Tab.
Video Studio Tab on Video Save Options window: Check “Perform Non-square pixel rendering”
Press OK, Name your file, and hit Save.

My technique is to transfer these files to my external hard drive (or a Data DVD) and play them back from there in the LP2. This isolates the LP2 and prevents LAN streaming issues from mucking up the tests.

John

John,

From this thread:
http://www.iodata.com/usa/forum/showthread.php?p=5220#post5220

and from what you say above I think the test you are doing is mostly invalid:

If you are testing the LP2's scaling capabilities you should set the output of your LP2 to match the native resolution of your set (1080i) otherwise you are seeing your sets scaling instead of the LP2. In the iodata forum you said you are outputting each sample with the LP2 set to the matching res of the sample.

Another thing from that thread you say:
"It is an analog set so 1:1 doesn't apply"
I can do one to one analog with my DLP and many sets can -- however many sets always scale any HD resolution because they are not an exact match and those sets can never be made to make 1:1.

Also the ISO chart is being used wrong as potus said. You must first crop it to the 16:9 crop points before you encode it as a 16:9 divx or it will read less resolution due to the way the chart is designed. Your PC is much higher res so it will not be affected by lack of crop as much (and your pc screen is progressive not interlaced.)

Seemoredigital can also tell you about all the ways an interlaced image can be misframed to make a video that might shimmer.

Finally your PC screen is 1280x1024p -- if will always be able to do a sharper image than a set that can only do 1080i -- this is an apples to oranges test and it really isn't valid.

SeeMore,
Sorry, I completely misread your question: "What happens when you view these Test Card Stills at different output resolutions with your I-O DATA player?"

This is the right answer:

Edit: I'm having trouble keeping up with you guys. Taking Paul's comments into account, I'm changing my readings as follows - all had LP2 set at 1080i:

NTSC_854x480.jpg: Clean display on all blocks of vertical lines to right of center. Thin black bars above and below image. Edit: when I checked the same file with LP2 set to 1080i, the black bars disappear. Resolution stays the same.

HDTV_1280x720.jpg: Slight unevenness on lowest block of vertical lines to right of center. Slight overscan, image shifted to right.

HDTV_1920x1080.jpg: Slight unevenness on 2nd to lowest block of vertical lines to right of center. Slight overscan, image shifted to right.

John

Thanks for posting your observations!

What you've reported seems to be a familiar story, especially with the 1920x1080 image being shifted over to the right :eek:


Cheers

Paul,
The data are presented differently on the two forums and it would have been less complicating to keep the discussions separate. However, on this forum, I presented a 4x5 matrix of 20 tests, which seemed to be unnecessarily confusing to readers. So, later, when I posted on the Iolink forum, I simplified the data to a short list of 4 data points that were the best resolution values that I observed.

The problem is that these best are far worse than resolutions that are actually encoded in the Divx files.

Other points:
I have no way to establish a 1:1 correspondence of digital pixels with the phosphors on my CRTs.

The ISO chart is being used correctly. It fills the 16x9 screen top to bottom, left to right.

I have posted my procedure for creating resolution test videos above. One way to approach this problem is to recreate the test and see how much resolution you observe on your HDTV. Or you could devise your own test…

John

Has anyone been able to play a DTS encoded divx file either via the network or the dvd rom? I get an "unknown codec" error when i play them. I've tried both wizd and the avel link server.

I've studied the "Canon version of ISO res chart" in more detail today and I'm of the opinion it's not really suitable for testing this (or any other) high-def capable player.

After loading the image into HyperSnap and zooming into it, to view the individual pixels, it becomes clear that there's too much distortion in the image.

Indeed.... here's what a centre section of the image looks : -

http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/5672/pixellevel5rc.png


Plus, according to HyperSnap the source image contains an astonishing 33,831 unique colours.... Which is not bad going, especially for an image that should only contain 2 unique colours!


Cheers

SeeMore,
What resolution score do you see when you use LP2 to display the ISO chart as a still picture on your HDTV?

If the ISO chart has "too much distortion" how is it that Virtual Dub can display clean vertical lines that converge all the way to a score of 12 on Divx HD encoded video?

John

SeeMore,
What resolution score do you see when you use LP2 to display the ISO chart as a still picture on your HDTV?

JohnIt's quite honestly a pointless exercise John.

The source image contains too much distortion and will therefore not reveal correct/accurate results.

I prefer to use generate and use my own test cards, all of which are accurate "to-the-pixel".

It's also pretty pointless testing the accuracy of this players output using images with a greater resolution than 1920x1080 pixels because 1920x1080 is the maximum output capability of the player. Meaning any image with a higher resolution is automatically down-scaled ;)

SeeMore,

Pointless? :eek:

If you declare that the ISO image contains distortion, then you must explain how Virtual Dub is able to display vertical lines that converge cleanly all the way to a reading of 12 on a PC monitor on Divx encoded Video files. As I am sure you know, neither Virtual Dub nor the Divx codec can create resolution that is not in the original image.

John

SeeMore,

Pointless? :eek:

If you declare that the ISO image contains distortion, then you must explain how Virtual Dub is able to display vertical lines that converge cleanly all the way to a reading of 12 on a PC monitor on Divx encoded Video files. As I am sure you know, neither Virtual Dub nor the Divx codec can create resolution that is not in the original image.

JohnI've given you the reasons why the image is distorted. I've even provided a sample!

A perfect sample should contain no blurring between the pixels. It should look something like this: -

http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/9159/pixellevelclean0vd.png


EDIT: And here's an 1920x1080 example, showing no distortion between the pixels: -

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7093/1920x10806cg.th.png (http://img384.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1920x10806cg.png)


Cheers

SeeMore,

Distorted or not, you have not explained how the extremely high resolution is obtained in the PC.

Cheers,
John

What happens when you view these Test Card Stills (http://81.98.148.105/Uploaded_Files/AVS_Forum_files/Test_Card_Stills_From_SMD.7z) at different output resolutions with your I-O DATA player?


Cheers

seemore - I would like to play around with these images and have downloaded the file - how do I get the images out of the file?

SeeMore,

Distorted or not, you have not explained how the extremely high resolution is obtained in the PC.I'm not saying the image is not capable of producing an "extremely high" resolution.

Resolution alone is not enough to provide a good quality test image. Especially an image like this one which looks to offer only two colours (ie: grey and black).

A proper "two colour" test image should have no distortion between the pixels. Also, it should not be distributed in a compressed image format such as Jpeg, ideally it should be distributed in a lossless image format.

In my opinion, the test image you provided looks to have been manipulated at some time and shows clear signs of suffering from pixel interpolation!


Cheers

seemore - I would like to play around with these images and have downloaded the file - how do I get the images out of the file?You need a decompression tool that handles the 7-Zip (http://www.7-zip.org/) format ;)


Cheers

SeeMore,

If the ISO chart is capable of providing "extremely high resolution," then lets focus on using it as a tool to measure resolution.

What do you see on your TV when you prescale the ISO res chart to 1920x1080 and then use the LP2 to display it as an image?

Cheers,

John

If the ISO chart is capable of providing "extremely high resolution," then lets focus on using it as a tool to measure resolution. We're going round in circles John!

I'm not prepared to use the so called "ISO" sample and post my results.... As Seven-of-Nine would say, "you're method is flawed!

Find me the original ISO sized (uncompressed) source and I will be happy to test it.


Cheers

SeeMore,
Try http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1157633,00.asp for my original chart. Click directly below the Canon EOS-1D ISO Image to download an uncompressed bmp (1,14MB).
John

SeeMore,
Try http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1157633,00.asp for my original chart. Click directly below the Canon EOS-1D ISO Image to download an uncompressed bmp (1,14MB)Unfortunately that particular image (and both the others) are not suitable either.

Again when I zoom into the images using HyperSnap and get to see the individual pixels they are blurred and are full of interpolated pixels :(

Any source such as this needs to be totally clean and razor sharp at the "single pixel level" in order to be of use!

Sorry John


EDIT: None of the images are perfectly aligned/level/staight/square.... which also massively increases interpolation effects

Hello all

Is there any way for the AVLP to display/upscale the SD stream from a DVB-S card over the LAN? I am using MyTheatre, in conjunction with a Twinhan 1020a DVB-S card.

I have been unable to configure the Linkplayer server software to connect to the stream. However, I can do so successfully with VLC... the network stream is represented by:
http://192.168.0.5:8000/dvbcore.mpg

(where 192.168.0.5 is the serving PC). AFAIK, dvbcore.mpg is not an actual file on the PC, rather a representation of the http stream. Is this possible to view with AVLP without transcoding/recording & restreaming etc?

Unfortunately that particular image (and both the others) are not suitable either.

Again when I zoom into the images using HyperSnap and get to see the individual pixels they are blurred and are full of interpolated pixels :(

Any source such as this needs to be totally clean and razor sharp at the "single pixel level" in order to be of use!

Sorry John


EDIT: None of the images are perfectly aligned/level/staight/square.... which also massively increases interpolation effects

Hmm.. I'm afraid I simultaneously agree and disgree with you! I agree that these patterns are probably not the best patterns for testing digital resolution of the Linkplayer, but I disagree that John's tests are not useful. These antialiased/blurred/interpolated images are actually very similar to what you would get (as HD video) if you aimed a high-quality HDV camera at a high-quality hard-copy of that test chart. And this real-world (not bit-by-bit, hand-made) image would be the most realistic representation of that test pattern at the resulting resolution (1920x1080). (Your "cleaned up" sample of the concentric circles looks far WORSE, in my opinion, than the "blurred and interpolated" version posted earlier.)

Regardless of this, if played through a high def player, you should EXPECT all 1920x1080 pixels of the pattern to be displayed (or at least sent out the linkplayer.) So if John rates the "original" 1920x1080 pattern a "12" when viewed pixel-by-pixel on his PC, and IF (and this is a big "if") the player and display system can reproduce the 1920x1080 image "pixel-perfectly", then I think it is reasonable to expect the same "12" rating there as well. A lower reading would indicate that there was a loss somewhere in the playback/display system. Hence his test has some value. You may quibble with the absolute values, but I am willing to accept values read by the same person (John) as being relative to each other. (i.e. what John rates as "12" probably really DOES have higher resolution than what John rates "11".)

So I am therefore willing to accept that John really did measure lower than expected resolution in his test. ("expected" being perfect pixel-for-pixel replication of the 1920x1080 pattern which rated the "12") His scores of ~7 really do indicate a significant loss of resolution from the anticipated "perfect" score of "12". I accept this finding.

Having said this, however, I cannot tell (from John's test) where the loss is coming from. More specifically, I am not convinced (as John is) that these results indicate that the Linkplayer is the cause of the measured loss in resolution. The display has not been tested with a "know good" 1080i video signal to verify that it is even capable of displaying "pixel-perfect" 1920x1080 images. I have a feeling the display is NOT capable of this, and is at least partially responsible for the measured drop in resolution.

- Frank

ps. another good version of this image can be found here: http://frankowen.zoto.com/img/original/f9e92a128279204f07121e94a49038e7-.jpg

Hi,

A quick question re the JVC.

Can the unit play the Closed captions which are embedded on the TS files?

Thanx
Ran

Having said this, however, I cannot tell (from John's test) where the loss is coming from. More specifically, I am not convinced (as John is) that these results indicate that the Linkplayer is the cause of the measured loss in resolution. The display has not been tested with a "know good" 1080i video signal to verify that it is even capable of displaying "pixel-perfect" 1920x1080 images. I have a feeling the display is NOT capable of this, and is at least partially responsible for the measured drop in resolution. When performing tests such as this, the source needs to have pixels that are just two colours and the pixels need to be razor sharp not blurred (on or off).

If the source is not correct, the results it produces will be inaccurate and therefor flawed.

I'm not knocking John's idea, which is sound, it's just the source I'm not happy with!

Unfortunately there are too many inaccurate test cards floating around the net.... I've even started to find some of my own that have been manipulated (re-sized, skewed, inverted etc)


Cheers

This all jives with my 'seat of the pants' tests against my JVC 30k. I can watch the same episode of LOST on either the DVHS or the LP2 and the PQ on the DVHS is significantly better on my PJ. Both are using component outputs.

Frank:
Like you, I am not certain whether the resolution is lost in the LP2 or the HDTV but the loss is so large, that you hardly need the world’s finest resolution chart to see that there is a serious problem.

When I view my 1980x1080 resolution video in VirtualDub Mpeg2 (version 1.6.11) at 100% magnification, my PC monitor (1280x1024) displays the upper left quadrant of the chart - left edge to center - with 962 pixels (10” of 13.3” monitor). This equates to 1925 pixels for the whole chart – damn close to 1920. The converging vertical lines to the right of center are crystal clear and distinct at a reading of 12 and blur together by 13.

This clearly demonstrates the resolution present in the Divx video file.

Now, when I reduce the magnification to 66%, the res chart almost exactly fills the PC monitor from side to side. Thus, the monitor is using all of its 1280 pixels to try to display 1920. This simulates how a degraded HDTV would display the chart. Using a magnifying glass, I can see that the converging vertical lines are distinct at 10 and blurred together at 11, which is still significantly greater resolution than I observe with LP2/HDTV combo.

When I cut the magnification to 50%, vertical lines are distinct at a reading of 9 (using about 962 pixels to display the width of the whole chart) - still better than seen with LP2/HDTV combo.

Therefore, if the HDTV is at fault, you would have to believe that its actual resolution is not much better than an SD set. I can stipulate that after viewing many hours of high definition source material that this is not the case.

Therefore, IMO, the evidence favors the LP2 as the source of the problem. I would look first at the Divx codec that is part of LP2 firmware version 10.88…

John

Thankfully the 1920x1080 Jpeg source Frank linked-to is a lot better suited for resolution testing!

It appears to be well aligned/level/straight/square, which is crucial as this drastically reduces the likely-hood of interpolation errors.

That said even this new source contains 256 unique colours, when ideally there should be only two!

I will see if I can tidy it up further but checking over 2,073,600 pixels takes a lot of time ;)

EDIT: By-the-way, can the LP2 handle "progressive" Jpeg's and PNG files?


Cheers

I still feel using a 6 year old interlaced display to test the LP2 to compare against a progressive 1024p PC display is comparing apples to oranges. You are mostly comparing screens -- not players. I have now found a second review that states that the set does not even come close to showing 1080 horizontal lines.

http://www.epinions.com/content_6628413060

"Since the 1080i signal is interlaced, it actually offers only slightly more horizontal resolution than a 480p signal. The 1080i signal has a bandwidth of 33.75 kHz. "

Note again this review states the set doesn't do 720p are you sure about the model number since you say your set accepts 720p input??

"Despite the set's high-end price tag, it doesn't feature the 720p HDTV resolution, although there isn't much source material at this resolution. "

I have used several MPEG2 single pixel wide line tests (all black and white) to look at 720p comparing the output from my PC thru DVI into my 720p DLP (expand mode 1:1) and the same source material played thru the LP2 into component at 480i, 480p, 576i, 720p, and 1080i output settings.) and the Lp2 is definitely outputting HD. The only differences to me are:
1 the overscan at the Full Screen mode is too much
2 the image is shifted slightly off center
3 and before I did the filter mod the image seemed soft (now 720p material at actual size setting looks as sharp as my PC playing the same 720p material at 720p to my set when set for 1:1 720p.

Note: with the LP2 playing at any resolution other than 720p my sets Faroujda scaler gets involved so then I am not able to limit comments to just the LP2.

One more thing about your Pro-610HD -- if you search on the scaler iseveral of the reviews say it is a simple line doubler. That means anything other than 1080i sources on your set is probably being scaled with pretty basic algorithms compared with what newer sets are capable of.

Paul,
I read the review and it states:
"the set can accept a native-1080i signal and display it at 1080i."

Your allegation that "the set does not even come close to showing 1080 vertical lines." is not supported by that review.

Paul,
I read the review and it states:
"the set can accept a native-1080i signal and display it at 1080i."

Your allegation that "the set does not even come close to showing 1080 vertical lines." is not supported by that review.

My typo -- I meant "horizontal" as the quote was mentioning -- 7" CRTS from six years ago had the resolving power of about 700-800 lines. Your comparison is against a PC Monitor that does 1280x1024p or 1024 lines you aren;t giving the LP2 a fair base to compare against.

"Since the 1080i signal is interlaced, it actually offers only slightly more horizontal resolution than a 480p signal. On a fixed image like a test pattern, interlacing does not cause any loss of effective resolution. The Kell factor only comes into play when there is motion.

Paul,
More in response to today's posts:
(1) OK, so your main point was a typo…
(2) Interlaced or progressive doesn’t affect resolution with non-moving subject matter.
(3) Please read my first post today. It uses the PC monitor, with VirtualDub’s Zoom feature, to simulate the effects of varying degrees of DISPLAY-limited resolution. I specifically simulated the effects of 1920, 1280, and 480 horizontal pixel resolution and posted my readings.
(4) The report that you reference shows no evidence of actual measurements. It appears to be based on a simple reading of the spec sheet.
(5) The set presents a picture when 720p is input that displays better horizontal resolution than 480p and better vertical resolution than a 1080p.
(6) I am quite sure about the model number.
(7) The PRO610HD doubles lines only in 480i mode to simulate 480p. This has nothing to do with 1080 line resolution.
(8) Your follow-up assertion that “7” CRT technology of 6 years ago was only capable of displaying 700 – 800 lines is not based on any stated fact. IMO, many CRT-based monitors were in existence with much higher resolution.

If you wish to help, I would be happy to email you a 4 second Divx file (627KB) that you can use to repeat my tests, using VirtualDub for Divx decompression on the PC and the LP2 Divx for your HDTV.

John

How does the LinkPlayer2 compare to the oppo?
Plus: networked (big big big plus)
Minus: lacks Faroudja and picture quality suffers?

Would you mate this with a Sanyo Z2, Z3, or Z4?

There seem to be 3 models, the US model, and these 2 in Japan?
AVeL LinkPlayer AVLP2/DVDG
DVDプレーヤー by IODATA 発売日：2004年9月中旬

AVeL LinkPlayer AVLP2/DVDG-2
DVDプレーヤー by IODATA 発売日：2005年6月下旬

When performing tests such as this, the source needs to have pixels that are just two colours and the pixels need to be razor sharp not blurred (on or off).

If the source is not correct, the results it produces will be inaccurate and therefor flawed.

I'm not knocking John's idea, which is sound, it's just the source I'm not happy with!

Unfortunately there are too many inaccurate test cards floating around the net.... I've even started to find some of my own that have been manipulated (re-sized, skewed, inverted etc)


Cheers

Well, it may come as no suprise, but I do not agree with this. I cannot see why
"the source needs to have pixels that are just two colours and the pixels need to be razor sharp not blurred (on or off)". If you are limited to only black and white pixels, it is impossible to generate patterns that are not simple multiples of pixels. For example, you can generate a 1080 line pattern easily enough using single-pixel width lines. You can also generate a 540 line pattern by using 2-pixel-width lines. However, you will be unable to generate satisfactory patterns BETWEEN these values. For example, look at the 700 line pattern in the image below. It uses some pixels that are NOT pure black or pure white. But the 700 line pattern has clearly distinguishable, uniform-width alternating black and white lines:
http://frankowen.zoto.com/img/original/bf1384609d393f966110bdb3691453c2-.jpg

Now look at the same pattern confined to only pure black and pure white pixels. The 540 and 1080 patterns look fine, since they can be built with whole multiples of pixels (2 and 1 pixel width lines respectively). But the 700 line pattern looks horrible. The lines are clearly NOT uniform-width lines. This pattern is pretty much useless. (also note how bad the un-aliased numerals look. Which of these would YOU use to test resolution?)
http://frankowen.zoto.com/img/original/31e3e55eb4b9eaedfb75fd8c2dd0e0f6-.jpg

I also have some frames from the resolution section of DVE that clearly show that duotone image is NOT used. Not sure if I am allowed to post these, though, as they are probably copywrited.

Frank:
Therefore, if the HDTV is at fault, you would have to believe that its actual resolution is not much better than an SD set. I can stipulate that after viewing many hours of high definition source material that this is not the case.

Therefore, IMO, the evidence favors the LP2 as the source of the problem. I would look first at the Divx codec that is part of LP2 firmware version 10.88…

John

Ok, your arguments seem reasonable. There might be LP2 problem afterall. But I should mention that in MY experience, the LP2 seems to put out images with MUCH higher resolution than SD. It seems to match that delivered by my HD tuner. But then again, from pure specs, my HDTV does not compare to yours.

Didn't you say you repeated these tests with .jpg still images? How did that go? That seems like a good way to eliminate the Divx processing from the equation...

Anyways, keep on pluggin, and let us all know how it goes...

I agree your points are valid...

However, we are moving away from an analogue world and into a digital one. In the digital world there are two std-def pixel resolutions ie: 720(->853)x480 and 720(->1024)x576. And two high-def pixel resolutions ie: 1280x720 and 1920x1080.

If we look at the high-def 1280x720 resolution. Sadly there are very few screens that are manufactured with exactly 1280x720 pixels, most have 1366x768 pixels.... so in order for the 1280x720 image to fill the 1366x768 screen.... some pixel shuffling (interpolation) has got to be carried out.

In other-words if you have a "test card source" which is accurate down to one pixel, your screen will be unable to display just the one pixel, it will have to use two (or more).

Now... how well the pixel interpolation is carried should be performed electronically by the display and/or player). It should not be performed by "cheating" the test card ;)


Cheers

I agree your points are valid...

However, we are moving away from an analogue world and into a digital one. In the digital world there are two std-def pixel resolutions ie: 720(->853)x480 and 720(->1024)x576. And two high-def pixel resolutions ie: 1280x720 and 1920x1080.

If we look at the high-def 1280x720 resolution. Sadly there are very few screens that are manufactured with exactly 1280x720 pixels, most have 1366x768 pixels.... so in order for the 1280x720 image to fill the 1366x768 screen.... some pixel shuffling (interpolation) has got to be carried out.

In other-words if you have a "test card source" which is accurate down to one pixel, your screen will be unable to display just the one pixel, it will have to use two (or more).
Cheers

Yes, I understand all this. But this is precisely why a "hard-edge pixel-by-pixel" type test image is not particularly useful (to me anyways). It is fine for measuring whether your 1920x1080 pixel-perfect display really is pixel perfect, but it doesn't help you find out how well the system can display the resolution found in real-world images. Also, it is not much use for determining how close your non-pixel-perfect (1388x768, 1024x1024, etc) display can come to "high def".

The test patterns that use antialias type resolution patterns are much closer to real world (analog) images. I am actually MUCH more interested in how well any particular display will handle the continously variable resolution patterns than the hard-edges pixel-perfect patterns. It will translate better into how natural the display will display real images. Case in point: I have seen MANY fixed pixel displays (LCD, plasma, etc...) that look absolutely horrendous displaying relatively low resolution images, such as those from analog TV tuner source. The display system, while capable of "hi res", does not do a very good job with the real world image. These display systems would probably score very well on the hard-edge unaliased test patterns, but would fall flat on any "real world" image.

Another case: say you have 2 displays that are both "pixel-perfect" 1920x1080, but one of them has much greater fill-factor (i.e. not as much visible "grid" around each pixel.) Both of these displays would render the "pixel-perfect" patterns very well. It will be very difficult to see the effects of the heavier grid when the pattern has hard edges that line up with the grid. But using a continously variable resolution pattern, the effects of the low fill-factor will become quite obvious.

There are definitely places where the "pixel-perfect" type patterns are quite useful. For example, to determine whether your 1920x1080 display really is "pixel-perfect". They're good for applications where the display will be used to display images which are "discrete-pixel-based" in nature, such as computer monitors. But for me, I think a continously variable res pattern will give a better indication of how well the display will handle real world images. There are very few grid-aligned hard-edges in the real world.

Well.... I guess while we continue to live in a dual connected analogue and digital display world.... there's no perfect solution!

By-the-way. How well do you guys get on with this 1920x1080 Colour Test card (http://81.98.148.105/Uploaded_Files/AVS_Forum_files/1920x1080_Colour_Test_card.7z)?

When I set the Zensonic Z500 to output an 1080i50 video signal, I can see down to "2 pixels" (the right hand boxes, second ones up) with my 42" Hitachi High-def plasma TV.

However, around a month ago, I hooked the Z500 up to an 45" Sharp Aquos, and could see down to "1 pixel".... And this was via component ;)


Cheers

How do I get it to play? (the 7z color test card)

How do I get it to play? (the 7z color test card)De-compress it using either 7-Zip (http://www.7-zip.org/) or the newer versions of WinRAR ;)

Is this player available in retail stores anywhere? It seem there are just 2 online stores that sell it to the US. The fact there is so little distribution of this product concerns me. It seems like a device like this should be quite popular and widely available. Other then press releases and discussions on this board there isn't much about it.

...The fact there is so little distribution of this product concerns me...I have several different Pinnacle ShowCenters Ed, and try to find those! Same deal! I don't know if the quantities are so low that retailers don't want to carry them, or if the return rates are so HIGH that the retailers don't want to carry them, or some other reason. In any case, given that these products require expertise in all areas of video playback & display, and computers, software, and networking (including wireless), my guess is that there are plenty of retailers that are wary of such difficult products.

True, but I would think at least Amazon or Buy.com or eCost would carry them since they do carry lots of hi-techie geeky stuff. :) My goal was to buy one at a (ahem) discount although $250 is pretty reasonable for what this does assuming it works as advertised. In any case, given that these products require expertise in all areas of video playback & display, and computers, software, and networking (including wireless), my guess is that there are plenty of retailers that are wary of such difficult products.

Is this player available in retail stores anywhere? It seem there are just 2 online stores that sell it to the US. The fact there is so little distribution of this product concerns me. It seems like a device like this should be quite popular and widely available. Other then press releases and discussions on this board there isn't much about it.

I wonder if that will change with the JVC version of the player... There are several distributors.

Tell me more about this player? Is it the same player rebadged by JVC ?I wonder if that will change with the JVC version of the player... There are several distributors.

I downloaded SeeMoreDigital's 1080 test file. Looks nice and clear, although my TV is only a 720p DLP model, it doesn't display the lower right hand square diamond pattern. So what does it mean? I have the output set at 720p. If I set the AVLP2 to output 1080i, the whole screen flickers.

The image is centered horizontally when I select "Full Screen," but shifted to the right when "Fit to Screen" is chosen.

Hi Tom,

See how you get on with this 1280x720 Colour Test Card (http://81.98.148.105/Uploaded_Files/AVS_Forum_files/1280x720_Colour_Test_Card.7z) ;)

Are you able to take/upload some stills with a digital camera?


Cheers

You actually have not setup a proper "lan" for your PC and player. You might be able to get away with direct ethernet cable between your PC and Player, but you may need an ethernet "crossover" cable. (unless your PC jack is auto-configuring...) Or, you can put a simple switch/hub in there and connect the two to the switch. Make sure the PC port static ip address is configured on the same "network" as the player (192.168.100.xx, or something), and they should be able to see each other.

If you want the player to also have access to the internet, you may have to setup ICS on the PC.

A router, of course, would be a simpler solution. (Attach router to cable modem, then set it up as DHCP client. Plug PC and Player into the router, and configure both for "auto" ip address. The devices will be assigned addresses by the router, and share internet connectivity. You won't need to have ICS running on PC, or even have PC running, for player to see the internet...)

I'm again having trouble connecting. I've got it to connect in the past with static IPs, but I keep losing my internet connection at least once a day. TWC support told me Road Runner needs to configure the address automatically. Now the LP server has the same IP as I get in Ipconfig. But on the TV it has a different one. It is set to automatically obtain one in IP setup. Why is it not getting the same one? Also, it sets the DNS server to 192.168.0.1 and the gateway is set to 0.0.0.0

If I set the player up to obtain this automatically shouldn't it, ya know, obtain it automatically?

Do I have to go in manually set all this up, and if I do am I going to have to keep changing it if I don't use a static IP. Alternatively, is it true that RR won't use that or is there a way around it?

I've just reinstalled the software again, latest version.

Usually if you have your router setup to give out DHCP ip addresses you specify a range such as 192.168.0.100 thru 192.168.0.105 (6 different addresses).
You would then want to give your LP2 a fixed address outside of that range (such as 192.168.0.10). Otherwise if the LP2 is off your router might give its address to another device on the network. You might also have to specify the reserved address somewhere in your routers setup.

That's very helpfull but now I can't get to my router setup page. I've always been able to by entering the default gateway in a browser, it used to be 192.168.0.1 but now that doesn't work and neither does the gateway obtained in Ipconfig.

But if I can get in there, should I have DHCP set up on both my Network Connections and the router or just one? Should I uncheck enable NetBios setting from DHCP server?

Here is a photo of SeeMoreDigital's 720p pattern seen from the LinkPlayer2 on a Samsung DLP.
http://vsdrives.com/graphics/SMD.jpg

Hi Tom,

Looks good.... you must be pleased with that :D

Hi Tom,

Looks good.... you must be pleased with that :D

I thought so, but the discussion has been that the LP2 is not making the resolution. Is it? Because I don't see the diagonal inside the lower right hand box. Maybe it can't do 1 pixel on a diagonal? It seems to on the horizontal and vertical in the box lower left...

In any case, I don't see how it's possible to pixel map 1:1 with overscan, which is mostly unavoidable for an analog output like component video. Subjectively, the picture seems fully resolved to me.

Comments?

Tom:

I can't recall. Did you peform the filter mod removing the three inductors and capacitors? I did, and am quite please with the video quality of my LP2.

In any case, I don't see how it's possible to pixel map 1:1 with overscan, which is mostly unavoidable for an analog output like component video. Subjectively, the picture seems fully resolved to me.

Comments?
Yes, I think your results look pretty good, too. The picture seems fully resolved to me too. The slight smearing is probably due to some slight degradation of the analog signal.

In my personal testing, I have NOT seen any overscan added by LinkPlayer. It is sending out all scan lines as far as I can tell. If you are not seeing them all, it is most likely that your display has cropped the image.

It would be nice if we could find someone with 1920x1080 native display, so we could check the 1080i resolution. Anyone?

PS: The reason you don't see the diagonals on the lower right box, is because there ARE NONE! This is another problem with these "pixel-based" patterns. That "1-pixel" diagonal pattern turns into a simple checkerboard. Which you can almost resolve in your picture. I'd say you did pretty well with it...

PS: The reason you don't see the diagonals on the lower right box, is because there ARE NONE! This is another problem with these "pixel-based" patterns. That "1-pixel" diagonal pattern turns into a simple checkerboard. Which you can almost resolve in your picture. I'd say you did pretty well with it...Yep.... that's right on all counts ;)

Now how about all you other people with high-def displays?


Cheers

Tom,
Another reason for the slight degradation may be due to a small amount of scaling applied by your display. I think you said that you were seeing some amount of overscan, which implies that your display is taking a subsection of the full-res LP2 image (maybe 1200x680, or something..) and scaling this subarea to fill its native 1280x720. This scaling may be the source of the minor degradation seen.

While it is a little trickier to get "pixel-perfect" with analog signals, it IS possible. You usually need to tweak the display's sync/timing settings to get it to work. (In some cases, this may not be possible. Depends on what level of timing control the display provides.) You might want to double-check what's availible on your DLP.

But as far as I can tell, the LP2 appears to be sending out "proper" analog HD signal timing.

You wouldn't happen to have comparisons before and after the filter mod?

Potus,
My spec says the PRO-610HD does 1250 lines. It does not give a spec for the horizontal pixel count - probably because it uses three analog 7" CRTs. This was 1999 technology.
John

Edit: The website is www.pioneerelectronics.com and you have to look up support, etc. because it is no longer in production.

Hi John,

Sorry if I came to this party late, but I just wanted to make sure I understood what you posted here. The manual states that the PRO-610HD has a horizontal resolution of "More than 1250 lines," but this doesn't say anything about the vertical resolution. In fact, that would imply "More than 700 lines" of vertical resolution (to preserve 16:9 aspect ratio) but nothing more than that, so I'm not sure that the test against your PC is valid. Compare it against a test resolution of 1250x700 on the PC and see if it's similar.

franzel

Hi John,
The manual states that the PRO-610HD has a horizontal resolution of "More than 1250 lines," but this doesn't say anything about the vertical resolution.
franzel

Actually, if they are going by the standard meaning of "horizontal lines of resolution", it means number of lines in the horizontal direction spanning an equivalent distance as the vertical dimension. So for a 16:9 display to have 1250 "lines of horizontal resolution", it would imply that it could display 1250 lines over 9/16th of the horizontal dimension. Or 1250*16/9 = 2222 total lines in the horizontal. All the resolution test patterns are calibrated using this definition of "horizontal lines of resolution".

This is a really good spec, by the way, and if accurate, should have no trouble displaying 1920x1080 HDTV images.

Ron, yes I did perform the LC filter mod removal some time ago on all three channels.

...also use the JVC D4 cable

I agree with Potus we should see some results from a 1080 monitor as well...

Actually, if they are going by the standard meaning of "horizontal lines of resolution", it means number of lines in the horizontal direction spanning an equivalent distance as the vertical dimension. So for a 16:9 display to have 1250 "lines of horizontal resolution", it would imply that it could display 1250 lines over 9/16th of the horizontal dimension. Or 1250*16/9 = 2222 total lines in the horizontal. All the resolution test patterns are calibrated using this definition of "horizontal lines of resolution".

This is a really good spec, by the way, and if accurate, should have no trouble displaying 1920x1080 HDTV images.Wow, that is confusing. I had never heard that definition before... meauring only 9/16 of the resolution? If this is indeed the case, from where does this absurdity stem?

I'd always assumed that "lines of resolution" originated in the days of analog, when the number of horizontal scan lines was counted. It was the only resolution figure that you could quote because there technically isn't a discrete horizontal "resolution" within a single horizontal scan line.

When "lines of resolution" is used in conjunction with "horizontal" or "vertical" things always get confused. It is ambiguous if horizontal/vertical refers to lines or to resolution.

In my opinion, "lines of resolution" should only be used when describing the total number of analog scan lines. Thus, the number would refer to the number of horizontal lines, ie, the vertical resolution. Whew... guess I'll have to turn in my uber geek badge at the end of the day. ;)

Yes it is confusing. This "lines of resolution" defintion was really intended for analog systems. In digital displays, we generally just state the native resolution, such as 1920x1080, or 1280x720, etc...

But John's display is an analog display, and stated resolution using the "lines of resolution" terminology, so I was assuming it was using the traditional TV defintion of "lines of resolution"... Perhaps not... Who knows, maybe since it is not a traditional 4:3 TV, they felt the "old" definition wasn't applicable? In which case, you may be right. Perhaps they meant 1250 TOTAL lines across the whole width. It would definitely explain the descrepency John is seeing in his expected vs. measured figures... He is measuring somewhere around 7, or "700 lines of resolution" from the chart. This is consistent with your calculation of 1250x700.

For a pretty good explanation of "lines of resolution" see: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_6_3/essay-video-resolution-july-99.html


- Frank

SeeMore,

Your 1920x1080 Colour Test Card falls short of perfection because it lacks a scale – much as a tape measure with all the numbers worn off. :D

None the less, I placed your .png image next to my trusty ISO chart and rendered them together in a Divx video at 1920x1080p, 5Mbps. This displays on my PC monitor as 12-13/12-13 for the ISO chart and a score of 7 (numbering your square objects to the right of center from left to right and then top to bottom…) for your chart. That is, only the bottom right square has indistinct lines within its box.

When I display the same video on the LP2/HDTV, I get a reading of 8.5x5.5 on the ISO chart and a score of 5 on your chart – substantially worse than the PC monitor. Note the steep drop off in vertical resolution on the ISO chart. This has to be blamed on the LP2 because I have already recorded higher vertical resolution on my HDTV in other tests (e.g., 720p). The video shimmers as if it had an incorrect field order but, being an unmoving image, it should not display field order symptoms. BTW, my video was rendered with FO = Frame Based.

Your divx video file also shimmers the same way on the LP2/HDTV and displays the same resolution as mine. However, it also has a distinct lower frequency pulsation that probably is caused by your 25fps frame rate.

The LP2 does not recognize your .png file format, so I could not make any resolution measurements of the still image, except on the PC monitor, where it scored identically to the Divx video.

Bottom Line: 1080 resolution in the LP2 has a definite problem with vertical resolution and with shimmering. Again, I think the codec in LP2 firmware version of the Divx codec may be outdated. The jury is still out on the remaining missing resolution...

John

Actually, dfiler, I think you may be right. Reading the "secrets" arcticle again I find the following: "In just about every case, the TV manufacturer is talking about the total number of picture elements its tube can show from left to right, not the “per-picture-height” that all the above figures are expressing. "

So I'll bet the Pioneer "spec" means total number of picture elements from left to right. Which implies a "per picture height" resolution of 700 (which is how those charts are calibrated...)

John.. I think this may explain what you are seeing... Your display probably tops out at around 700 (from the chart)....

- Frank

Actually, dfiler, I think you may be right. Reading the "secrets" arcticle again I find the following: "In just about every case, the TV manufacturer is talking about the total number of picture elements its tube can show from left to right, not the “per-picture-height” that all the above figures are expressing. "

So I'll bet the Pioneer "spec" means total number of picture elements from left to right. Which implies a "per picture height" resolution of 700 (which is how those charts are calibrated...)

John.. I think this may explain what you are seeing... Your display probably tops out at around 700 (from the chart)....

- Frank

In fact, the max resolution might be equivalent to 1280x720 which could be interpreted as a horizontal resolution of "over 1250 lines."

franzel

Frank,
Instead of trying to interpret an ancient spec sheet, I ran a test to see how the ISO test pattern image with 1920 horizontal pixels would look on a monitor that could only display 1280.

Quote: "when I reduce [Virtual Dub] magnification to 66%, the res chart almost exactly fills the PC monitor from side to side. Thus, the monitor is using all of its 1280 pixels to try to display 1920. This simulates how a degraded HDTV would display the chart. Using a magnifying glass, I can see that the converging vertical lines are distinct at 10 and blurred together at 11, which is still significantly greater resolution than I observe with LP2/HDTV combo."

Bottom line: there is still a lot of missing resolution to explain.

John

Bottom line: there is still a lot of missing resolution to explain.


and again, it appears it could be from your set since you have not hooked your LP2 to your PC to rule out your set.

A friend is hoping to get a 1080p LCD westinghouse screen this weekend. If he does I will see if I can try SMDs 1080 test on it and get some photors. Tom's results confirm what I saw on mine before at 720p -- the LP2 can output accurate 720p material since single pixel vertical and horizontal lines can be resolved on sets like our Samsung's DLPs that do 1:1 720p over component.

Thus, the monitor is using all of its 1280 pixels to try to display 1920. This simulates how a degraded HDTV would display the chart. Using a magnifying glass, I can see that the converging vertical lines are distinct at 10 and blurred together at 11, which is still significantly greater resolution than I observe with LP2/HDTV combo."

Bottom line: there is still a lot of missing resolution to explain.

John

I see what you're saying, but something is fishy here. I can simulate the same "1280x720" display capability by scaling the res pattern (using very good scaler: Photoshop) to 1280x720 resolution. The resultant image would be pixel-for-pixel what a "perfect" 1280x720 display device would display. Here is a subsection of the pattern rendered at that resolution: I can't see how this scores higher than 7-8. Certainly NOT 10 or 11.

http://frankowen.zoto.com/img/original/eb1a3d3a74b598777b614df037aea76e-.jpg

Frank,
Fishy? No. Are we using different tools and techniques? Yes.

When I look at the resolution chart in your post, it has gone through multiple scalings on the way from your computer to my screen and then is using fewer than half of my monitor’s horizontal pixels (640) to display the entire test pattern. Which is the bottleneck?

IMHO, we have to be very careful of attaching global significance to resolution test scores. If each of us carefully establishes a baseline measure of resolution using the PC monitor and then uses the same procedure to measure resolution under different test conditions, then those differences are very significant. However, if I think that lines become indistinct at a reading of 8 and you, with your procedures decide the resolution score is 9, the difference may or not be significant.

If we try to compare results we must use the same measuring tools. I have noticed a lot of variation among different video display programs and assume that they use fairly arbitrary rescaling rules during the display process. If we both use Virtual Dub for baseline measurements we don’t have to argue about how accurate it is – only that we both use the same measuring stick.

IMHO, it would be simpler to recreate my experiment because it is directed at measuring the resolution that actually gets displayed using the LP2/HDTV combo. You might just prove, once and for all, that all the resolution gets to the set. Nothing would make me happier.

John

Edit, I'll be happy to email you or anyone else my Divx video that includes both my ISO chart and SeeMore's 1920x1080 chart, rendered at that frame size at 5Mbps video bitrate. It is about 1 MB in size.

Frank,
Fishy? No. Are we using different tools and techniques? Yes.
.

I will agree with you that NEITHER method is really valid. You can't compare what you see on your PC monitor with what you see on your HDTV, and conclude ANYTHING about the performance of the LP2. You just can't. Sorry. There are two unknowns. Your HDTV display and the LP2. You still do not know for sure which is the source of the resolution loss.

BTW. That picture I posted, if displayed at full resolution, will have gone through ZERO scalings to get from my monitor to yours. The reason it is the size it is, is because it is a subsection of the larger 1280x720 fully-rendered image. It has pixel-for-pixel EXACTLY what you would see IN THAT SECTION OF THE TEST PATTERN on a PERFECT 1280x720 display. This is all the resolution you can EVER expect to get from this image size (1280x720). Thus, if you claim that you have seen more resolution (like 10 or 11), then you MUST have MORE resolution than 1280x720. That is what is "fishy".. You can't get a score of 10 or 11 with a 1280x720 display.

The best thing would be to find a "known good" display that is KNOWN to be able to display full-resolution 1920x1080 image, and drive it with the LP2. This would be the best way to test the LP2.

Mind you, I am NOT saying that you are wrong about the LP2. You may be right. I am just not sure based on your test procedure. It is inconclusive.

Frank,
Your picture of the ISO resolution chart arrived at my computer as a jpeg, tagged with frame dimensions of 694x582. This is the main reason it displays poor resolution on my computer.
John

Frank,
I tried to attach a max quality jpeg with a frame size of 1280x1024. It originated as a bmp screen shot of Virtual Dub's display of part (2/3) of one frame of my 1920x1080 Divx video. It clearly shows lines converging between 12 and 13.

However, the forum web site issued the following Error Notice: "File Too Large. Limits are 800 x 640. Your file is 1280 x 1024."

So I am prevented from transmitting this to you via the forum. I would be happy email it to you (476KB) if you wish.

John

Frank,
Your picture of the ISO resolution chart arrived at my computer as a jpeg, tagged with frame dimensions of 694x582. This is the main reason it displays poor resolution on my computer.
John
John, did you even read my prior post? That is the CORRECT frame dimension. It is a subsection of the complete 1280x720 image. The reason it displays "poor resolution" on your computer, is because this is ALL the resolution possible at 1280x720.