Have you guys looked at fabricmate? My indications are that they would sell to the end user and they have a similarly easy system to put up. I'm trying to decide right now if I'm going that way or try to go about building frames.
Greg


I'm also wondering, why go through the trouble to build frames when there are a couple track systems that have the beveled edge etc.

I'm 3-4 weeks away from putting up Linacoustic on front wall and chair rail height on side walls, and have been re-reading threads on cutting 2 by's into 1 inch firring strips, attaching to wall, stapling GOM, etc. Seems like the ease of the track system would be quite advantageous and time saving, or am I missing something?

Thanks in advance

The track system is very expensive. If you have the cash, go for it!

Gary

What sort of control/automation system will you have to interface it with?



The control system in the theater is a HP PC running XP, MainLobby, and a ViewSonic airPad(using 802.11b). MainLoby will communicate to the Avalon using MainLobby server and the RS232 communicatio plugin.

Not to sidetrack the thread, but I have the same Neothings switch (6x2, integrator model) hooked up to a Control4 automation system. Works great, especially since C4 can control it via Serial with the model I have. I'd highly recommend it, although I would also say that if you think you have 6 inputs and 2 outputs, go for the 8x4 instead of the 6x2. :)

Too late already have the same unit you have 6x2 integrator model. I' am using the Avalon behind the NEC ISS 6010 RGB video switch. The NEC does not have any provisions for switching component. Plus the NEC will not switch digital audio.

So my path is DVD to the Avalon switch, to the Rock video processor, to the NEC 6010, and finally the NEC PG9+ projector.

Seems like the ease of the track system would be quite advantageous and time saving, or am I missing something?

Thanks in advance

For me it was the problem of trying to purchase these track system. Two years ago the suppliers would not sell to the DIYer. The other problem is the cost of the track systems. I had a limited budget to build the complete structure and theater. Building the frames was one way of getting the look I wanted and staying within the budget.

The seam along the wall was done using he hidden seam technique. The fabric then wraps around the bottom and the side and staples in side the light tray.

Greg

Greg,

Do you mind explaining the 'hidden seam technique' that you mentioned above please?

thanks
sri

Greg,

Do you mind explaining the 'hidden seam technique' that you mentioned above please?

thanks
sri

The way i created a hidden seam was with dry wall shims. I use the shims to create a straight even edge. The hidden seam is created by attaching the fabric to the surface and folding the fabric back over it self. Thats where the dry wall shims come in. They create a even fold that is not distorted by the staples.

I would post some photos on how this is done but my digital camera was resently stolen. i'am look at replacing it with the wifi Cannon 430.

Greg,

Do you mind explaining the 'hidden seam technique' that you mentioned above please?

thanks
sri
Below is a simple sketch of a hidden seam:

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/Figure - hidden seam .jpg

Hi Greg - Been awhile since I contacted you with some questions on your fabric frames (about 1.5 years now that I check back !) and see that the thread is still going strong here.

I have seen in another thread where you explained your inner corner treatment - I believe it is a 1.0" x 1.0" strip (actual dims) ripped from a standard 2x4 and then covered with GOM.

I have a couple of questions related to this -
1) - is the edge of your frame bevelled on the edge that butts up agains the corner? It looks like it's not on some of the pics I can find but just wanted to check with you.

2) - Did you have any outside corners in your room and if so, how did you tackle them?

Thanks !
Lewis

I have a couple of questions related to this -
1) - is the edge of your frame bevelled on the edge that butts up agains the corner? It looks like it's not on some of the pics I can find but just wanted to check with you.

2) - Did you have any outside corners in your room and if so, how did you tackle them?

Thanks !
Lewis

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/Pic/HTDoneWalls12.jpg

I did not bevel the edge that butts up to the corner. The picture is a close-up of the corner. I guess you could bevel that edge but i'am not sure how it would look.

Sorry I did not have any our side corners. You could just make a long bull nose corner piece and cover it with fabric. then your frames would just butt up to it.

How far along is you theater, and pictures?

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/Pic/HTDoneWalls12.jpg

I did not bevel the edge that butts up to the corner. The picture is a close-up of the corner. I guess you could bevel that edge but i'am not sure how it would look.

Sorry I did not have any our side corners. You could just make a long bull nose corner piece and cover it with fabric. then your frames would just butt up to it.

How far along is you theater, and pictures?


Thanks for the fast response. I'm a bit embarrased to admit that I have not started construction yet. The sad part is it's not because of funds - just too many other items "getting in the way" I have however been reading, sketching, re-reading all the time and to be honest it's a good thing that I have not started up to this point because I have been able to refine the design and pin down a lot of loose ends. One thing I have never changed is my desire to incorporate your frames concept, or a version of it. I have yet to see any design that I like as much as yours.

I'll be sure to post some pics when I get underway. I'm learning a simple modelling package at the moment to visualize my 2D cad drawings. It's not the high end stuff that some of the experts on here are using, but it will assist me with colors etc. Once I get the design pinned down, I will probably be getting reaper to do a full render for me before I start spending money.

Thanks again for your assistance. Do you have any pics of your stage/screen end of your theater? I don't recall seeing any in the thread.

Cheers,
Lewis

Thanks again for your assistance. Do you have any pics of your stage/screen end of your theater? I don't recall seeing any in the thread.

Cheers,
Lewis

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/Pic/HTBright02.jpg

I have found it extremely difficult to pohotgraph the stage because of the screen. I get OK photos when the photo is taken on an angle, like the photo above.

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/Pic/HTBright02.jpg

I have found it extremely difficult to pohotgraph the stage because of the screen. I get OK photos when the photo is taken on an angle, like the photo above.

I hear you on trying to take such photos. I have trouble all the time trying to take photos where there's a large reflective surface and dark details close by. That's a good one though and shows the detail of your screen wall well. It raises another question on an issue that I am scratching my head about at the moment. The location where the side of your stage meets the wall, and partially covers the bottom fabric frame that is butted up against the black column on the stage - I am planning on making my stage narrower by the thickness of the fabric frame + the distance it is spaced off the wall. i.e. the panel will slide in until it meets up with the black column. Is this how you tackled this or did you contour the fabric frame to fit over the edge of the stage bullnose etc.? So many details once I "think" I have it figured out.....

The location where the side of your stage meets the wall, and partially covers the bottom fabric frame that is butted up against the black column on the stage - I am planning on making my stage narrower by the thickness of the fabric frame + the distance it is spaced off the wall. i.e. the panel will slide in until it meets up with the black column. Is this how you tackled this or did you contour the fabric frame to fit over the edge of the stage bullnose etc.? So many details once I "think" I have it figured out.....

The fabric frame at that location is a solid pice of MDF with just the top edge beveled. The side was then cut to match the bull nose profile of the stage over hang. I then covered it with GOM fabric and no one knows the difference.

The fabric frame at that location is a solid pice of MDF with just the top edge beveled. The side was then cut to match the bull nose profile of the stage over hang. I then covered it with GOM fabric and no one knows the difference.

Yep - it looks like it belongs there for sure. Thanks for the info. I have made a few little renders of my "vision" for my room in Sketchup. Attached one to this response for you to have a look at. I am going with long wide frames. I'll need a brace in the middle to prevent bowing when stretching the fabric. The columns are not really columns in my room - they are fabric covered hinged panels that hide a couple of doors and water pipe shut off. Cen't seem to get the chairs painted a black color at the moment (I'm still learning Sketchup).

Anyway, thanks for your help again Greg and I'll be back in touch "in the fullness of time" as they say.

Cheers,
Lewis

Hey guys - for my theater, I used the black corners as well, but I beveled the pieces that meet with it for a different look. I have some shots of this in my thread below. I should be just about done with my fabric frames (70 of them) by tomorrow and have more pictues.

Gary

Hey guys - for my theater, I used the black corners as well, but I beveled the pieces that meet with it for a different look. I have some shots of this in my thread below. I should be just about done with my fabric frames (70 of them) by tomorrow and have more pictues.

Gary

Not sure how you are doing your corners. I look at several of your pictures but could not make out the details in the corners.

ok - I'll post some closeups in my thread and here shortly.

gk

I added some pictures at the end of my thread for my fabric frames solution to a hidden wall for the rack components. Here are the pics:

http://blaze.gotdns.com/gk/basement/theater_sept/hiddenrack1M.JPG

http://blaze.gotdns.com/gk/basement/theater_sept/hiddenrack2M.JPG

http://blaze.gotdns.com/gk/basement/theater_sept/hiddenrack3M.JPG

http://blaze.gotdns.com/gk/basement/theater_sept/hiddenrack4M.JPG

http://blaze.gotdns.com/gk/basement/theater_sept/hiddenrack7M.JPG

http://blaze.gotdns.com/gk/basement/theater_sept/hiddenrack0M.JPG

Those look great. I'm ordering my fabric today. I have 8 fabric frames to construct which will enclose my acoustically transparent columns. 4 will be hinged and 4 will be more permanently attached.

Cool! - good luck and lets see the pics when you are done!

gary

What did you do around your light switch ?
What did you use to attach/remove your hidden door panels? Velcro?

For the light switch (Grafik Eye), I put 1" 1/2 furring strips around the box and planned to staple the fabric to it after I cut out the fabric. It turns out the frames are so taught, that the cut hole held it's own and I just mounted the face plate over the cut hole and the furring strips.

For the hidden door frames, I first installed a 20 inch door on hinges. Then I made the 3 frames. I used a nail gun to nail the frames to the door, then I drilled holes in the other side of the door and screwed the frames on tight.

Gary

Would using 1/2" plywood over frame construction with the "frames" nailed directly to the plywood cause acoustical problems? Essentially you would be using plywood instead of drywall. I guess you would need something between the frame and the plywood or it would rattle.

Very nice...I love the look.

I did not cover my walls with fabric when I built my theater and regret that very much; so much so that I am thinking about doing that now.

Any thoughts on how difficult this (using your wood frames) would be for a retro fit? The obvious problems/issues would be the existing electrical since I would need to extend the boxes (there are ways to do that but I'm just wondering how hard it would be to get it all "lined up"). Framing around the openings with furring strips and stretching the fabric over it would be straight-forward; not sure how that would look using the frames.

Would using 1/2" plywood over frame construction with the "frames" nailed directly to the plywood cause acoustical problems? Essentially you would be using plywood instead of drywall. I guess you would need something between the frame and the plywood or it would rattle.

I think it depends on your local building inspector. The drywall is partly a fire code thing. Plus the drywall would be less expensive. You might want to do both.

Very nice...I love the look.

I did not cover my walls with fabric when I built my theater and regret that very much; so much so that I am thinking about doing that now.

Any thoughts on how difficult this (using your wood frames) would be for a retro fit? The obvious problems/issues would be the existing electrical since I would need to extend the boxes (there are ways to do that but I'm just wondering how hard it would be to get it all "lined up"). Framing around the openings with furring strips and stretching the fabric over it would be straight-forward; not sure how that would look using the frames.

I did not use furring strips for the electrical boxes. I used a low voltage box as an extension to the existing box. The extension bos was attached to the frame and pressed into the existing wall box. See the photo below of the back of a fabric frame with the extention box.
http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/pic/HTFrames11.jpg

Great job on your HT, give me lots of ideas. Few questions, what are the dimensions of the soffit light tray you built and what type of rope lighthing did you use? is the generic stuff from HD or Lowes OK for this type of application. Finally, for the what is the sequence for stapling the GOM on the soffit, it would seem that it would be pretty hard to staple the fabric on the inside of the light tray.
Thanks

Great job on your HT, give me lots of ideas. Few questions, what are the dimensions of the soffit light tray you built and what type of rope lighthing did you use? is the generic stuff from HD or Lowes OK for this type of application. Finally, for the what is the sequence for stapling the GOM on the soffit, it would seem that it would be pretty hard to staple the fabric on the inside of the light tray.
Thanks

Thanks, my family realy does enjoy the theater.

To answer your questions:

Sofit dimensions (http://www.stargateunofficial.com/images/pdf/soffit.pdf)

A blind seam was used, like below, under the sofit. the fabric was then wraped up and over the sofit and staples in the light tray.

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/Figure%20-%20hidden%20seam%20.jpg

Rope lights are standard HD issue on a dimmer.

First time using rope lighting I went the Home Depot route but following advice from some others here I bought it on the web for the second application. On the web I was able to get white vs. clear (more even glow) and cuttable along 12 inch segments, while the Home Depot variety I found was not cuttable. I ended up with a 48' roll.

When you build fabric covered panels like this, how do you attach them to the wall?

When you build fabric covered panels like this, how do you attach them to the wall?

There have been three techniques used and discussed in this thread:

1. Liquid nails and two inch brads
2. Velcro
3. French cleats

Couple quick questions.

1) Any tips on dealing with slight variations of height at the ceiling/sofits if you are starting at the top and working down

2) What are your thoughts on using near flush mount clips that are 1/8" thick such as these http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=344&SearchHandle=DADBDBDBDADADDDGGEGBDBGGGBGGGBDGCNGEGDGDDJCNDEG FDIDGCNDJDIGBGBCNDAGEDCDJDDGEDAGCGCDADEDBDADADADBDADADADBDBG GGMHFHDGICAGNGPHFGOHEDADADADEDADADADADADADADBDFDADADADBDADAD ADADADADADADADADADADBDADADADBDBGGGMHFHDGICAGNGPHFGOHEDADADAD BDB&filter=flush%20mount

Two things come to mind on those clips - which I have considered as well -

1) How to deal with the "gap" at the top - would have to come up with a decorative strip of some sort, or have the top row of frames fastened in by a different method.

2) Would they "rattle" with the bass ? I have never used these clips but if they are snug enough I doubt there would be a rattle issue - could be fixed with electrical tape if so.

Worth considering and I will be trying out a test frame with them when (if) I ever get to building my ht.

Couple quick questions.

1) Any tips on dealing with slight variations of height at the ceiling/sofits if you are starting at the top and working down

2) What are your thoughts on using near flush mount clips that are 1/8" thick such as these

I started on the top and worked down. The variations were compensated for at the floor, away for your eyes.

With any king of clip or French cleat you are going to start on the bottom, then work up this will leave a gap above the last row. As you need that clearance to get the clip over and then slid it down on too the clip.

You could add some standard or crown molding to cover the gap. This would also compensate for the variations you asked about.

When you build fabric covered panels like this, how do you attach them to the wall?


I used a different approach. I used 2 inch finishing nails in a 18 gauge nail gun into the double sheetrock with nothing else to hold it. If I want or need to replace a panel, just pull off the wall after cutting the fabric out to get a hold - or put a nail partially into the frame and pull hard.

I also worked from the floor up and buried the bottom of the panels into the floor molding that I installed first 1" away from the walls. This hid the bottom seam and allowed for a square approach from the floor up. The top down is a great way to go if you put your molding up last.

Gary

I'm under taking a project to put velvet up on the ceiling to control light reflections above the screen (currently the ceiling is just painted a dark color but still gives off too much sheen).

My plan is to purchase a 4x8 foot piece of Styrofoam insulation panel 3/4" thick and wrap it with the velvet.

However I'm wondering what is the best way to do the corners? For instance I will wrap it so that the fabric is pulled tight across the piece, down the side, and onto the back side. This way none of the edges show.

However I'm not sure what the best way is to fold the edges where the corners are so that the it tucks away nicely behind the piece. Any pointers for this?

Also my plan is to use 3M 77 spray adhesive to attach the back of the velvet to the plastic that is attached overtop the strofom.

I then plan to attach this to the drywall ceiling using drywall screws. However I am a bit concerned about the drywall screws being visible which may not look good. Any ideas?

Thanks!

lovingdvd,
Styrofoam is strongly advised against in a home theater you would be inviting an acoustic mess. and if you did use it, and wrap it without a frame it will dent and crumble or break.

I really suggest you use one of the techniques others have tried and had success with

lovingdvd,
Styrofoam is strongly advised against in a home theater you would be inviting an acoustic mess. and if you did use it, and wrap it without a frame it will dent and crumble or break.

I really suggest you use one of the techniques others have tried and had success with

Thanks for the heads up. I'm not too concerned about the impact on acoustics the material will only cover an area about 8' x 5' on the ceiling in front of the screen. Considering the room is 20x20 hopefully any impact this has on sound would be minimal.

I am however concerned about any crumbling or breaking. Since its up on the ceiling and not on the walls hopefully it won't be subject to much impact.

What other material is recommended for this type of backing for the fabric beside the insulation panels? I'd like to use something light weight if possible just to make it much easier to work with. Thanks.

I would urge against Styrofoam for potential fire hazard.

If your looking just for a light-weight method why not just use 1/4" ply? You can always border it with battens to give extra thickness if required.

Don't see how it would be worse acousticly than drywall.

I would urge against Styrofoam for potential fire hazard.

If your looking just for a light-weight method why not just use 1/4" ply? You can always border it with battens to give extra thickness if required.

Don't see how it would be worse acousticly than drywall.

Thanks for the tip. Is 1/4" ply subject to warping? I want it to lay perfectly flat against the ceiling so I'm wondering about that.

Also how would you recommend putting a border around this 1/4" ply? For instance in my case I'll only be covering the area in the middle of the ceiling in front of the screen with the material. I'm afraid it will look kinda weird with just this black velvet stuck in the middle of the screen. Any suggestions for adding a nice finishing touch around the edges? The thiner the better (for instance I wouldn't want to use a 1" piece of molding). Is there a nice way to put a finish on a 1/4" ply?

Thanks again!

Also - if I use the 1/4" ply how would you recommend mounting everything to the ceiling?

For instance I could use adhesive spray to mount the fabric to the wood - but how do I mount the wood to the ceiling? I could use screws but would be afraid even the flat black screw heads would be noticeable with the projector on and the light bouncing off the ceiling.

When I did my star ceiling with ply had same concern on warping so used a batten structure to guard against this.

Maybe use industrial velco to attach to ceiling.

Cheers,
Mark

When I did my star ceiling with ply had same concern on warping so used a batten structure to guard against this.

Maybe use industrial velco to attach to ceiling.

Cheers,
Mark

Thanks Mark. I'm not at all familiar with batten - can you explain what a batten structure is and what you created. Any close up pics available of this?

Although the Styrofoam insulation would have been easiest I agree its not the best material for a number of reasons.

My hardware store has two types of boards the look like they could work. The first was 3/16" 4'x8' tempered hardboard ("Eucaboard"). This seems nice and flat (no warp) and quite sturdy, but it quite heavy which may make it more challenging to attach to the ceiling.

The other choice they had was a 5.2 (not sure what this measurement is, but it looked like it was about 3/16" think) 4x8 moisture resistant Lauan. This was similar to the hardboard but much lighter.

Another thought I had was to perhaps use some sort of thick poster board from an arts supply place. If I went with something light weight like this, I think the Velcro could be a great option.

Thoughts on this?

Battens are just thin strips of wood to provide additional rigidness. You can put around perimeter and cris-cross thru center.

However if you use industrial velcro, around perimter and within the center area you may not need to make it more righd as it will have the drywall ceiling to stop it from warping. Maybe add a few brads or finish nailes which will disapear in the velvet..

I would use the Lauan ply. Its light and fairly rigid.

You could also apply the fabric frame approach to the ceiling. With a little creativity you could create some nice pattern or even a design or something.

I would use the Lauan ply. Its light and fairly rigid.

Thanks. At that point however couldn't I just use a sturdy cardboard instead of the Lauan? Cardboard would have about the same thickness and be sufficient to give the velvet a sturdy backing - plus it would be very light weight and could more easily be suspended. What do you think?

You could also apply the fabric frame approach to the ceiling. With a little creativity you could create some nice pattern or even a design or something.

Thanks I would love to do that but it has two major challenges I don't know how to overcome. 1) I could not wrap the fabric under the frame so the edges would not be tucked in nicely and have a nice finish, and 2) I don't know how to attach the fabric to the frame without seeing staples. I guess I could use finishing nails but this would be tougher to put up and far less forgiving.

Thanks I would love to do that but it has two major challenges I don't know how to overcome. 1) I could not wrap the fabric under the frame so the edges would not be tucked in nicely and have a nice finish, and 2) I don't know how to attach the fabric to the frame without seeing staples. I guess I could use finishing nails but this would be tougher to put up and far less forgiving.

I fail to understand why you could not wrap the frames with fabric. Even if you had to staple the fabric along the side edge you would not see the staples as the frames butt up to each other. If you did have an exposed edge you can always fabricate a trim pice along the exposed edge.

I would not use cardboard - don't see how that is going to be rigid enough. I'm also like GPowers unsure why using frames will not work. Wraping fabric around square frames is pretty simple and by wraping the fabric and stapling on the rear will hid them. Also you couild bevel the edges to a great look.

I fail to understand why you could not wrap the frames with fabric. Even if you had to staple the fabric along the side edge you would not see the staples as the frames butt up to each other. If you did have an exposed edge you can always fabricate a trim pice along the exposed edge.

I'd like to better understand the advantage of using a frame in the first place. To me it seems like it would be harder (I'm not very handy so these things are challenging to me! :) and the results not much different if at all compared to using a 1/4" ply wood or cardboard.

If I take the frame approach it makes mounting to the ceiling much easier, because the frame gets screwed or nailed to the ceiling. From there I just need to attach the fabric to the frame. The challenge I have here is how do I attach the fabric to the frame? If I use staples I think these will be visible as light reflects off of the material (even tiny fibers on the black velvet sparkle because the velvet is so black).

The other challenge with the frame approach as I mentioned previously is not being able to tuck the material in on the back side so the edges are smooth - because the frame is already attached to the ceiling so how could I tuck the material in on the underside (the part that rests against the ceiling)?

Or let's say I created the frames on the ground and attached the velvet before mounting to the ceiling. Using this approach I could certainly tuck the fabric around to the underside. But now the challenge is that I cannot mount it to the ceiling with screwing into the fabric and having the screw heads be visible.

Perhaps I am overcomplicating this or not thinking about it clearly? I don't think it should be this hard so I'd appreciate any advise to set me in the right direction. I've been spending a lot of time thinking about this and trying to plan for it but really unsure of the right way to go about this. It doesn't help that I have the added pressure that the project must have a high WAF... Thanks!

I would not use cardboard - don't see how that is going to be rigid enough. I'm also like GPowers unsure why using frames will not work. Wraping fabric around square frames is pretty simple and by wraping the fabric and stapling on the rear will hid them. Also you couild bevel the edges to a great look.

If it was for the side walls where people could touch or lean against it I wouldn't consider cardboard. But on the ceiling the cardboard would just be to hold the fabric tight and make it easy to glue on.

My challenge with the framed approach as mentioned in my last message is that I then don't know how I'd mount the frame to the ceiling if the fabric was already on it, without screwing or driving visible nails through the material which I'm afraid will be very visible.

What am I missing here? Thanks!

What sort of tools do you have? Table or Circular Saw, Finish nail gun? If you have these then frames are simple. There are many ways to attach to ceiling.....simply use finish nails (they will disapear in fabric), a grid like used with ceiling tiles or maybe friction catches (if light enough).

If you don't have the tools and your really not confident about your DIY skills then stick with the Ply and Velco solution.

You can glue Velvet directly to a ceiling with super 77 though you need resperator and some assistance.

What sort of tools do you have? Table or Circular Saw, Finish nail gun? If you have these then frames are simple. There are many ways to attach to ceiling.....simply use finish nails (they will disapear in fabric), a grid like used with ceiling tiles or maybe friction catches (if light enough).

If you don't have the tools and your really not confident about your DIY skills then stick with the Ply and Velco solution.

No I'm pretty much tool-less - just a basic hand saw and hammer :)

How about a product like this: http://www.elmers.com/products/product/product_page.asp?pCode=960512 ?

I could wrap the fabric around that, and it would probably be light enough for me to mount it just with some finishing nails. This would also be much easier for me to work with and cut.

I didn't look at the specs but my concern again would be whether its a fire hazard.

Also is this easy to get where you are?

I didn't look at the specs but my concern again would be whether its a fire hazard.

Also is this easy to get where you are?

Not sure. I know that there are a number of foam boards available at local art stores and Office Depot that are 3/16" thick so this may do the trick as well.

Do you think finishing nails would do the trick with such light weight (it would be nailed to drywall, not sure if I'd hit any joists)? I'm not against Velcro, but I'm a bit concerned whether I'd get a flush, tight mount against the ceiling with Velcro.

Then again, with the finishing nails I imagine it will be challenging to bang those in all the way without then denting the foam. Maybe make the final few hits on the nail by placing an awe on the nail head and hitting the awe?

Is there any particular industrial or other type of Velcro that may be better than another to get a flusher mount?

Weather you use Fabric Frames or some kind of foam/cardboard you're going to need some way of nailing the what ever to the ceiling. You are not going to be able to pound a nail cleanly into foam. And you will never be successful in pounding a two inch brad into a Fabric frame and drywall. You need to buy some tools or hire someone to install the ceiling stuff for you.

I think you already discovered that the fabric is stapled onto the frame before you attach it to the ceiling. Then I used Liquid nails and two inch brads to attach the frames to the wall. The brads only hold the frame in place until the glue cures, they do not hit the studs. You do need to set the nail gun to counter sink the nail below the fabric, so you can not see the nail when you are done.

Weather you use Fabric Frames or some kind of foam/cardboard you're going to need some way of nailing the what ever to the ceiling. You are not going to be able to pound a nail cleanly into foam. And you will never be successful in pounding a two inch brad into a Fabric frame and drywall. You need to buy some tools or hire someone to install the ceiling stuff for you.

I think you already discovered that the fabric is stapled onto the frame before you attach it to the ceiling. Then I used Liquid nails and two inch brads to attach the frames to the wall. The brads only hold the frame in place until the glue cures, they do not hit the studs. You do need to set the nail gun to counter sink the nail below the fabric, so you can not see the nail when you are done.

I would up going with a very ridged type of 1/4" foam board I found, similar to gator board. I also purchased an electric brad nailer.

Here is my plan - please let me know if you have any suggestions or whether it seems reasonable given my lack of handyness :)

1) Glue velvet fabric (that has an acitate backing) to the foam board using 3M 77 spray adhesive. The foam board has an outer paper or plastic-like coating, so hopefully the 3M 77 will not melt it...?

2) Leave about 2" overhang on each side until glue is dry from step #1, then wrap this around tight to the back side and glue it there. This backside will be the side that mounts flush against the ceiling.

3) Use 3/4" brads to with electronic nailer (Arrow ET200) to nail the material/foam board combo into the drywall. I'm thinking this will hold without hitting any joists? If you don't think it will, let me know and I can try and hit the joists with a 1-1/4" brad.

My main concern about the nailer is that it does not have an adjustment for depth, so I am not sure just how deep it will penetrate. I'm going to test it on a test piece first and see.

That's it. Please let me know if you think this plan will work or whether you see any flaws :)

I would purchase an air powered nailer over the electric one. The electric ones are mostly junk. At first i was very price concises about purchases the compressor and an air powered staples. I looked a the electric and decided to go with the air. Since then I have purchased a Brad gun, Finish nail gun, small paint sprayer, and a small rotary grinder. This was one of the best tool I have purchased.

I think you are headed for disaster if you try to glue velvet, unless you are very very clean and do not get the glue on any thing, including you fingers. Also is the glue going to work through the back of the velvet a come out the front.

While not as multi-tasking as having a compressor for other tools, I'm very happy with my Paslode nail gun. It uses special CO2 like cartridges. No cables, no compressor noise, easy to use and convenient to move around with.

I would purchase an air powered nailer over the electric one. The electric ones are mostly junk. At first i was very price concises about purchases the compressor and an air powered staples. I looked a the electric and decided to go with the air. Since then I have purchased a Brad gun, Finish nail gun, small paint sprayer, and a small rotary grinder. This was one of the best tool I have purchased.

I think you are headed for disaster if you try to glue velvet, unless you are very very clean and do not get the glue on any thing, including you fingers. Also is the glue going to work through the back of the velvet a come out the front.

Yes the air powered nailers look much nicer and most importantly have the depth control. However being that I will most likely never need the tool except for this one project to drive a dozen or so brads I can't justify the investment.

I'm going to test this on some samples and put as little pressure as possible and see how that works. Hopefully it'll be fine. If not then I may need to consider Velcro. I know Velcro would work great but I don't think I'd get a very flush mount to the ceiling.

The velvet I have has a acetate as its backing which makes it particularly nice to work with for gluing. I did make a small sample piece, spraying both the backing of the velvet and the foam board with the 3M 77. I'm glad to report that it did not soak through or affect the foam board, and bonded just great. Also because the 3M 77 is repositional it gives you the opportunity to remove any creases that form if you don't lay it down perfectly the first time.

About the only thing I struggled with was in making the corners. I'm still not sure the best way to fold or cut the material to do the corners. For instance at the corner you have the material on the side and the top that need to be dealt with to form a tight corner. There is no seam on the visible side, only trying to figure out the best way to tuck this under. Does anyone have any tricks or tips for this? Thanks

OK I had a chance to experiment with the brad nailer tonight...

First the good news. It works perfectly and I can drive the brad to the depth I want it. Also from my testing it seems the material and foam board is light enough so that a few brads here and there will be enough to have it hang from the ceiling no problem.

Now here's the challenge - the brad nails although driven deep are clearly visible when light shines on them and is unacceptable. They are finished with a dark brown color, but the velvet is sooo black that it makes everything stand out. And having that metallic finish creates a shine/shimmer to it.

Has anyone ever tried painting the tops of brad nails prior to shooting them? I'm wondering if I paint the top of the nails with a flat black if a) it'll still fire out of the gun once dried (or perhaps it'll act like glue and prevent the nailer from firing?), and b) if it will blend in better with the material.

I'm thinking I will have to try something else other than nails/staples for this reason (this was a concern early on and unfortunately it looks like its a valid one that I may not be able to get past).

Velcro would definatey work to hold it - no doubt about it. However I don't think it'll give me that flush to the ceiling look I am wanting. Plus I imagine it can be a bit tricky getting both sides of the Velcro tapes to line up perfectly when mounted separately.

Any ideas? So far I'm very close - just need to solve how to mount this puppy to the ceiling and I'll be home...

Not sure painting prior will work (the strike will likely remove it) plus would want to rick leaving traces of paint in the nail gun.

Why not use a permanent black marker.

Are you sure the is no depth adjustment (look near trigger) or are you putting sufficient pressure on the nailer when firing.

One suggestion also is to put a few dabs of liquid nails - don't want low frequency vibration knocking it down.

Why not use a permanent black marker.


I tried using a Sharpe permanent black marker, but it would not apply to the brad as odd as that seems. No matter how much I rubbed it on it just wouldn't take.


Are you sure the is no depth adjustment (look near trigger) or are you putting sufficient pressure on the nailer when firing.


Yes I am certain there is no depth adjustment - called the company and asked them and they confirmed.

I think the depth I'm getting is just fine. The brad is complete flat with the velvet - any more and it would tear through. From a distance it just looks like a tiny dot where you can see the brad head. Normally for a side wall or something this would work. But because its overhead the screen on the ceiling reflected light from the pj would shine off of the heads for certain. The velvet has a very short pile so the brad cannot hide.

I might try getting some flat black paint and putting a dab of it on the brad head after its in the material. A bit risky though as I'm likely to get some on the velvet.

The Liquid Nails Drywall products looks good - says it can be used to adhere foam board to drywall - "hello!". How quickly does this stuff set? If I glue this on the ceiling how long do you think I'd have to stand there holding it in place before I could let go :) . This may be sufficient on its own without any need for brads which would solve this issue. I'm not crazy about permanently gluing it to the ceiling but my choices appear limited.

One suggestion also is to put a few dabs of liquid nails - don't want low frequency vibration knocking it down.

That's weird. I used a Sharpie after using brads to secure some panels, worked fine for me.

Bud

That's weird. I used a Sharpie after using brads to secure some panels, worked fine for me.

Bud

Thanks for the note. I just tried again to be sure. Maybe its just the type of brad I'm using (Arrow brand with brown finish) but it doesn't take the ink really. Maybe gets a little darker but definitely still way to reflective. You wouldn't see it at all if these wasn't light hitting it. But since the screen reflects light up to the ceiling this will definitely be visible.

I tried taping a tiny piece of electric tape over the brad - that was actually worse...

I'm going to try picking up some flat black paint from an art store and hitting the head with just a dab to see how that does.

Another thought I had was to make little velvet "patches" - just a tiny piece of velvet cut just big enough to cover the brad and glue that over the brad. With the piece being so tiny perhaps the extra "bump" from having the extra material over top will not be noticeable especially from a distance. Yea, I think I'll give that a try now...

Could be the difference. I used silver Porter-Cable brads with a pneumatic brad nailer.

Bud

If the brads are consistently in the same place you could glue a decorative accent over them. Something art-deco or the like.

If the brads are consistently in the same place you could glue a decorative accent over them. Something art-deco or the like.

Its a good idea. However at this point I'm going for a complete black look - basically want it to look like a sea of velvet :)

In looking closer at the brads, these ones apparently have a plastic like finish over the top which is colored brown. I think this is what is preventing the Sharpe from working.

I'm going to pick up a little flat black paint and see how it looks on a sample piece with a dab of this paint on there.

I did try earlier to cut a tiny swatch of velvet and glue it over the brad. It seems to work ok but I'll have a better idea once it dries. From what I saw after trying it, it appears that if I can't find anything better this may at least be acceptable.

Its a good idea. However at this point I'm going for a complete black look - basically want it to look like a sea of velvet :)


Then make a black velvet button, circle or even a square. You can use cardboard or corrugated cardboard and cover it with your black velvet. Then glue it over the brad. Might add some interest to a huge field of just black velvet.

You might try a Testors "Paint Marker". It's like a big felt tip marker, but it has paint in it. Get it at a Hobby Shop.

Here's an update on the progress made today...

My attempts at gluing a small piece of fabric over the brads did not work out - pretty sloppy looking up close. At a distance it may be ok depending on the glare - I have to take another look. Bigger pieces may work better but this is not a look I'd like to pursue.

I picked up Tester's flat black as well as semi-gloss black acrylic paint. I placed a dab of each on various brads for testing. This does a better job of hiding the brads as long as there is no light, but with a light the brads still light up. So painting the brads is officially out.

Then I discovered that if I put enough pressure onto the nailer, it will sink the brad a bit deeper. This but all hides the brad, perhaps leaving just a tiny dot that is doable! It seems however that in some cases it will go through the velvet complete because its hard to find the sweet spot for apply just the right amount of pressure.

I also found that the 3/4" brad is coming out the back of the test drywall piece I am using by about 1/8". So I think I'm going to switch to the 5/8" brad. This also has the benefit of having a smaller head (15mm vs. 20mm) which will help too.

So my current plan is to switch to 5/8" and drive the brad through the velvet or so that its just about through. This should still be plenty strong to hold the lightweight material to the ceiling and do a better job hiding the brad.

Today I also picked up an orbital hand saw. After experimenting with some blades I found a great blade that cuts the foam board very smoothly and cleanly. My challenge here is that I must cut the 48" wide board in a perfect line. Otherwise when I put the next panel up to it won't lay flush and will have a gap.

I'm using a 48" drywall T-square and pushing the saw against the T-square for it to provide a guide. However it still slips a bit and on test pieces I'm trying I haven't been able to cut things perfectly straight. It doesn't help that I don't have a work horse or table to hold things down well so everything is make-shift. Any tips here? Seems like maybe I should get a 2nd T-square and use it on the opposite side to form a "track" in conjunction with the other T-square on the other side that I can just slide the saw through. This way it can't slip.

Also I'm wondering how I'm going to manage to cut 48" across a board that is 96" tall. When I lay it down flat to cut that means I can't walk the saw along the cut line because the other 48" from the other side is going to be in my way! How am I suppose to manage this? Any tips greatly appreciate. Man I imagine that to those of you with experience this must sound like a really stupid question :) But I'm a complete newb with construction and DIY. That being said, where there's a will...

Thanks!

Use the square to line up a straight edge and clamp the straight edge to the board to avoid slipping.

Great thread!!!

It has provided me with TONS of ideas. Thank you gentlemen!!!!

-Kevin-

A few questions....

I read through this whole thread and it seems that these panels serve primarily an aesthetic function - and it is a COOL one at that!

Does anyone fill these panels with material at a speaker reflection point instead of placing a column or acoustic panel? If so, what is being used?

Thank you.

-Kevin-

The frames serve both aesthetic and acoustics. The lower frames are backed with compressed fiberglass. As is the bottom of the soffit.

The frames serve both aesthetic and acoustics. The lower frames are backed with compressed fiberglass. As is the bottom of the soffit.

Do you have a picture of how you put the fiberglass in the back, and contained it..
I am looking to do something similar to these, although I will be just using various panels placed strategically on walls... not a solid wall full of panels...

thanks so much...

And You did a great job, and it looks great... thanks for helping everyone out here!!

Warp

Here's an update on the progress made today...
Today I also picked up an orbital hand saw. After experimenting with some blades I found a great blade that cuts the foam board very smoothly and cleanly. My challenge here is that I must cut the 48" wide board in a perfect line. Otherwise when I put the next panel up to it won't lay flush and will have a gap.
Thanks!


In that situation, I would suggest a Table saw... with the blade turned backwards.

I have cut many pieces of 1/4" Plexiglass panels like this...
I use those for signs.. works great...

Do you have a picture of how you put the fiberglass in the back, and contained it..
Warp

Friction, the compressed fiberglass is just pressed into the frame. Then the frame is glued on to the wall. Once on the wall the wall(backside) and fabric(front side) hold the fiberglass in place.

The photo below is a frame with 1/3 MDF for an outlet and 2/3s fiberglass.

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/pic/HTFrames11.jpg

any suggestions for someone who will not be gluing the panel to the wall...

I guess I will have to wrap it in the reverse direction(back to front), and staple with some sort of fabric to keep insulation from vibrating out... and then wrap with my colored fabric around from front to back...

Any other suggestions would be great..

thanks...

The insulation has a coating on it that will prevent fibers from escaping. So you don't have to cover the back. But if you do, any cloth covering on the back will do and you don't have to stretch it perfectly smooth.

You could use silicone to glue it to the wall. Then it would be easy to put up and half way easy to remove later while not destroying the walls.

The insulation has a coating on it that will prevent fibers from escaping. So you don't have to cover the back. But if you do, any cloth covering on the back will do and you don't have to stretch it perfectly smooth.

You could use silicone to glue it to the wall. Then it would be easy to put up and half way easy to remove later while not destroying the walls.

Ok... cool that answers some of my questions.....

all my concernses have been alleviated...
Now I can make with the building of dem's panels... :)


Warp

Maybe this has been mentioned previously in this thread, so my apologies in advance if this is duplicate info.

What about using grill guides to attach them to the wall. These are the little black plastic plugs used to attach speaker grills to speakers. That way, you can snap your fabric frames on and off the wall similar to speaker grills.

Matt

Maybe this has been mentioned previously in this thread, so my apologies in advance if this is duplicate info.

What about using grill guides to attach them to the wall. These are the little black plastic plugs used to attach speaker grills to speakers. That way, you can snap your fabric frames on and off the wall similar to speaker grills.

Matt

Post number 104 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5089144&&#post5089144) has photos.

any suggestions for someone who will not be gluing the panel to the wall...

I guess I will have to wrap it in the reverse direction(back to front), and staple with some sort of fabric to keep insulation from vibrating out... and then wrap with my colored fabric around from front to back...

Any other suggestions would be great..

thanks...

The glue is only applied to the wood frame and the drywall. No glue is applied to the fiberglass. The fiberglass floats and is held in position by friction.

I am planning to use Velcro to attach frames to the wall.

Any suggestions / warnings / techniques?

Question I have are:

1) how to attach Velcro strips to the sheet rock? Peel off the paper and just stick them or staple them additionally? Also, how did you attach it to the frame?


2) Any techniques to make sure both strips are lined up correctly?

3) How much and at what positions to attach the velcro strips?

thanks
sri

Why use velcro? use a 18 guage nail gun, one nail in each corner. Still can be removed easy, cheap and solid. If you need a hidden panel, do that one in velcro, not the whole room. Velcro is expensive also and you may not get an even finish as it is a thick material. my .02

If you must use velcro, put the sticky first side on the back of the panel, then the next piece on top of that one, stick side up. Push on wall and it will stay. If the sticky part loses its grip, you will have panels falling off the wall one day. I still think that 18 guage nail gun (minimal nails is all that is needed) is enough. Check my thread last few pages for my install of fabric frames.


-gary

I am planning to use Velcro to attach frames to the wall.

Any suggestions / warnings / techniques?

Question I have are:

1) how to attach Velcro strips to the sheet rock? Peel off the paper and just stick them or staple them additionally? Also, how did you attach it to the frame?

2) Any techniques to make sure both strips are lined up correctly?

3) How much and at what positions to attach the velcro strips?

thanks
sri

I did not use Velcro. In fact the first few frames that I did use Velcro were re-done with 2" brads and liquid nails. The Velcro did not provide a secure attachment of the frames to the wall. Plus Velcro is very expensive. If I used Velcro around all four sides of the frames I have it would take 9 feet of Velcro for each frame. There are about 75 frames that 675 feet of velcro. At a 0.50 a foot for 1.5 inch velcro thats about $350.00 of velcro. I only used about $25.00 of Liquid Nails.

All my frames were attached using 2" brads and Liquid Nails. The brad does not nail into the studs as the frame is one inch thick and the drywall and sound board were another inch plus, for over two inches before you get to the stud. So the brads just holds the frame in place until the Liquid Nails drys.

And you are right about getting the velcro to stick too the wall. The glue on the velcro doese not stick that well to drywall paper.

I have frames on top, frames on bottom and a fabric covered chair rail in between. I use a 2" strip of velcro on each corner and a 2" strip on each side in the center of each frame. I've found that the frames fit so snug that the velcro isn't even necessary but does help to hold them in place. If I need to pull one off, the weak point is the paper on the drywall. The velcro holds but pulls the layer of paper off the wall. I suspect you would have the same weakness using just liquid nail but the brad should help with this. I have one edge of the chair rail where the wood was warped and I shot a few brads through it to better hold it in place. Every time I look at it I see where the nails went through the fabric and I'm sure it will bug me enough to replace it sometime soon with a better piece of wood.

All my frames were attached using 2" brads and Liquid Nails.

use a 18 guage nail gun, one nail in each corner

From above, one further uses liquid nails and another did not. Problem with Liquid nails is taking the frames off the wall. Wondering is it really needed of just the brads enough?

Also, garykagan..when you say nails, do you also mean brads?

thanks
sri

I think you're overthinking this. Try one with brads. Try one with velcro. Try one with liquid nails. See what you like better.

From above, one further uses liquid nails and another did not. Problem with Liquid nails is taking the frames off the wall. Wondering is it really needed of just the brads enough?

Also, garykagan..when you say nails, do you also mean brads?

thanks
sri

I used 2" 18 guage nails. Small head will not upset the fabric and sink them a hair into the frames. The 2" does not go through the 2nd layer of sheetrock into studs, so no need for stud finders, etc. I did not use liquid nails, the frames are solid on the walls with 4 to 6 nails in each (larger ones I used extra 2 nails in the middle sides. If I need to get behind a frame I can pry them off the wall with a screwdriver and the frame will be intact and ready to go back up. I did not use brads, I used a finishing nail gun with the 2" 18 guage nails in my rigid air gun.

gk

Thanks Gary, Gobble and GPowers.

I think you're overthinking this

Probably you are right. I'll give it a shot this weekend..

Also, as learned by GPowers, spray paint black lines between the seams where the frames go up to hide any errors. I used a roll of black tape as I did not want any spray paint flying around the sealed room. really makes a difference if any seams do not meet perfecty.

gk

If you want to go the frames route, I would highly recommend that you make some sort of guide/jig.
I made this jig and it saved me hours on construction of 54 frames...
http://www.rensmond.co.za/HT_Images/FrameJig.jpg

the end result

http://www.rensmond.co.za/HT_Images/Frames1.jpg

So this weekend I need to cut bevels and start covering with fabric...

If you want to go the frames route, I would highly recommend that you make some sort of guide/jig.
I made this jig and it saved me hours on construction of 54 frames...
http://www.rensmond.co.za/HT_Images/FrameJig.jpg

the end result

http://www.rensmond.co.za/HT_Images/Frames1.jpg

So this weekend I need to cut bevels and start covering with fabric...


Dude ! That's a serious amount of work. How many hours do you think you have into these frames already? Also - post a closeup view of your construction of a frame when you cut your bevels - I'd be interested to see it.

I am planning on using a pocket hole jig for fastening mine when I eventually do them - the stock market meltdown over the last couple of days has put my HT plans on hold yet again !

The jig is nice. For me, however, very few of my frames were the same size. I did a top and bottom with a chair rail in the middle. Each frame was 43" tall and a "standard" frame was 30" wide (about half the width of GOM). With all the corners, equipment rack, door, etc. less than half of the frames ended up being a standard 30" wide.

If you keep them solid for the glue to dry, you will have a good frame. The glue jont is stronger than the particle board. I had a flat surface where I laid the pieces together and shot two finishing nails into each joint to hold them together while the glue dried. The nails alone will not make a sturdy frame. Don't nail too close to the edge or the particle board will split.

Its also much easier to cut the 45 degree bevel when you cut the boards to the initial 2" width (unless you have a giant table saw that can hold a 30" frame). I tried a router at first and it was a messy pain in the ass.

I am planning on using a pocket hole jig for fastening mine when I eventually do them - the stock market meltdown over the last couple of days has put my HT plans on hold yet again !

Lewis, using the pocket hole jig is great for some applications, but using one on these frames is going to make for a LOT more work. I have used a pocket hole jig when building finnish work for trim etc.. and positioning the jig takes some time. Using lap joint with glue and a nail gun is faster and you are going cover the hole thing with fabric anyway.

Lewis, using the pocket hole jig is great for some applications, but using one on these frames is going to make for a LOT more work. I have used a pocket hole jig when building finnish work for trim etc.. and positioning the jig takes some time. Using lap joint with glue and a nail gun is faster and you are going cover the hole thing with fabric anyway.

Greg- I will bow to your knowlege on this one. I only acquired my jig a few weeks back so I'm still in "you can do everything with a pocket hole jig" mode :D

My next tool purchase is a small compressor along with brad, finish, and staple gun ;)

I had assumed that the norm was to bevel them before assembly. Let me know since I am probably about 60 days out.

Luckily my local supplier offers free cutting, so I had 5 boards of 2.7m x 1.8m (6'x9') cut in strips of 6cm (2.3") -> 28 strips per board. I then only had to cut the correct length with a mitre cut-off saw it took me about 3 hours to cut all the wood for 54 frames. While I was cutting a good friend pre-drilled half of the wood for assembly.

This is half of the frames...
http://www.rensmond.co.za/HT_images/frames2.jpg

It took me and my wife with my friend and his wife about 2-3 hours to assemble the 54 frames. I must add we worked like a well oiled assembly line, the ladies placed the screws and glue in the rights places and we used two electric screwdrivers to fasten everything.

Most of the frames I only need to cut 2 or 3 sides so I couldn't pre-cut 45 angle on the wood (and it would cost me to have the local suppliers cut angles)

In my HT under constriction I am building ~60 fabric panels for the walls and wanted to have a 45° bevel edge look without the dirt part of making the edges myself.

The frames are made with 24x44mm (~1x2") construction wood, cut to size and hold together by 2 screws on each corner. Important here is to have a clean 90° cut to prevent any warping.
The 45° edge is done with a 20mm (little bit less than 1") triangular shaped wooden strip, cut at 45° at the corners and screwed on top of the frame.
http://www.z-logics.com/Zinema/Wallpanel_construction_step_1.jpg

Here a detail shot of a corner
http://www.z-logics.com/Zinema/Wallpanel_construction_step_2.jpg

Then the panel gets wrapped in fabric which is stapled on the back side - just make sure it is stretched tight with no wrinkles.
http://www.z-logics.com/Zinema/Wallpanel_construction_step_3.jpg

All my wall panels are mounted using 25mm (1") wide self adhesive Velcro. Smaller panels with 4 strips (~4-5cm long) in the corners - larger panels with 6 or more strips. Even that the glue on this industrial quality Velcro is very strong I secured the strips on the frames and also on the wooden wall framing with staples to give extra support.
http://www.z-logics.com/Zinema/Rear_fabric_panels_step_02.jpg

All of my panels were not pre-made and then mounted - instead every single panel was build with exact dimensions to give a very tight fit - most of them would stay in place even without Velcro (of course not the sides :) ).
Here is a shot of the finished rear wall of my room with a total of 16 fabric frames.
http://www.z-logics.com/Zinema/Rear_fabric_done.jpg

Has anyone tried using lightweight pieces of insulation with stretched fabric over top in place of using wooden frames? I’m in the planning stages now for my HT and after talking to a contractor we came to the idea of lining the wall with 2x2s horizontally then attaching (with Velcro) pieces of insulation with fabric stretched across and stapled in the rear. This would cut down on the carpentry and also allow the panels to be removed to reach any essential pipes/power boxes/etc the wall may be covering.

Also, are most people ordering their fabric online or getting it from local retailers?

All my wall panels are mounted using 25mm (1") wide self adhesive Velcro. Smaller panels with 4 strips (~4-5cm long) in the corners - larger panels with 6 or more strips. Even that the glue on this industrial quality Velcro is very strong I secured the strips on the frames and also on the wooden wall framing with staples to give extra support.
http://www.stargateunofficial.com/gallery/frameonframe.jpg

This frame on frame approach solve the problem of using Velcro on the drywall, as you can staple the Velcro on the back frame.

Looks good, only how many frames too go.......

In my HT under constriction I am building ~60 fabric panels for the walls and wanted to have a 45° bevel edge look without the dirt part of making the edges myself.

The frames are made with 24x44mm (~1x2") construction wood, cut to size and hold together by 2 screws on each corner. Important here is to have a clean 90° cut to prevent any warping.
The 45° edge is done with a 20mm (little bit less than 1") triangular shaped wooden strip, cut at 45° at the corners and screwed on top of the frame.
http://www.stargateunofficial.com/gallery/cornermod.jpg



A simular approach (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6690273&&#post6690273), too add a pre made bevel, was discussed earlier in this thread. Interesting to see the approach actually in use.

I’m debating whether or not to take the fabric frame approach in my own HT (in a finished basement) and I’m concerned about the tendency of fabric to attract dirt and pet hair. Has anyone had any issues keeping the fabric frames clean?

I don't have my HT in use for long by now, but we have 3 cats, 2 dogs and 2 small kids....didn't have any problems yet - nothing you couldn't remove using a vac. ;)

(Although the pets are not allowed to get into the HT, there are always some hair on our cloths which will find their way into the room)

In my HT under constriction I am building ~60 fabric panels for the walls and wanted to have a 45° bevel edge look without the dirt part of making the edges myself.

The frames are made with 24x44mm (~1x2") construction wood, cut to size and hold together by 2 screws on each corner. Important here is to have a clean 90° cut to prevent any warping.
The 45° edge is done with a 20mm (little bit less than 1") triangular shaped wooden strip, cut at 45° at the corners and screwed on top of the frame.
http://www.z-logics.com/Zinema/Wallpanel_construction_step_1.jpg

Here a detail shot of a corner
http://www.z-logics.com/Zinema/Wallpanel_construction_step_2.jpg

Then the panel gets wrapped in fabric which is stapled on the back side - just make sure it is stretched tight with no wrinkles.
http://www.z-logics.com/Zinema/Wallpanel_construction_step_3.jpg

All my wall panels are mounted using 25mm (1") wide self adhesive Velcro. Smaller panels with 4 strips (~4-5cm long) in the corners - larger panels with 6 or more strips. Even that the glue on this industrial quality Velcro is very strong I secured the strips on the frames and also on the wooden wall framing with staples to give extra support.
http://www.z-logics.com/Zinema/Rear_fabric_panels_step_02.jpg

All of my panels were not pre-made and then mounted - instead every single panel was build with exact dimensions to give a very tight fit - most of them would stay in place even without Velcro (of course not the sides :) ).
Here is a shot of the finished rear wall of my room with a total of 16 fabric frames.
http://www.z-logics.com/Zinema/Rear_fabric_done.jpg

This method is a whole lot more involved to make. A simpler approach is to make the frames and then use a 45 degree bit with a router with the end result looking the same but much faster, stronger, and cheaper to make.

Gray on the soffit and columns: Spinel 3582 color 021 Obbsidian
Black on the screen wall: Sensa 9218 color 718 Black
Wall frames: Spinel 3582 color 022 Garnet

Now you did it Greg! I fell in love with your color and texture choices and went to get some but nooooooo the Spinel 3582 022 garnet doesn't appear to be available any more. :eek: I'm really hoping that I'm just too stupid to be able to find it and someone will just tell me where to go (now be kind); or tell me what is the most similar color?

Hi BShaw@BedHandles

When I did an enquiry on the same GOM in Dec2006 this was the reply from InterfaceFabrics:

"This color is an inactive color in the Spinel line.
We do, however, have 3 rolls totaling 169 yards in our North Carolina warehouse."

Maybe your lucky and there's still some left.

Bought mine from SilentSource.com back in 5/2004.

:D :D Thanks guys, I called GOM today and the still have (had) around 190 lineal yards! I bought 40 from them so they still have some for the next HT project. I'm hoping that I got enough as I know I might not get another shot at this. I plan on making about the same size frames with enough material to wrap and staple to the frames + scrap + a large fudge factor for the inevitable goof up. :D :D

I would like to ask a question about these frames.

I am doing a fiber optic star ceiling in my build. I want as few seams as possible, and for them to be as invisible as possible.

I have considered doing a frame to mount on the ceiling. my room is 19' x 12'. my thought was to build 2 frames, each 19' x 6' (the fabric width is 10'). I would have center supports on the frame every 16 or 12 inches. I would attach these frames to furring strips which are screwed to the ceiling joists with velcro and some brads, possibly also some glue (I wouldn't want them coming down. the velcro would only be to hold them in place while I attach them, in case I have to shift them to get the seam in the middle tight, the seam on the sides and rear are not critical as they will be covered).

my concern is that even if I glue the fabric to the supports (the supports built with the same technique described here, about a 3" width), the fabric will sag over time, especially with the fiber optics, the fibers are lightweight, but still would add some pressure. For those of you who have built these frames, do you feel the fabric would sag eventually? I am using Dazian Celtic Cloth on the ceiling.

Rob you may want to check out the Sandmans thread as he did a fabric ceiling with star lighting.

Rob you may want to check out the Sandmans thread as he did a fabric ceiling with star lighting.

I did, and that is the other option I am considering (although I will do 4x8 sheets for fewer seams). so basically, I am torn between doing a solid wood backing for the fabric, or a framed approach. the framed approach would be easier on my back, and I would only have 1 seam, but as I said I am concerned with the sag...

I did, and that is the other option I am considering (although I will do 4x8 sheets for fewer seams). so basically, I am torn between doing a solid wood backing for the fabric, or a framed approach. the framed approach would be easier on my back, and I would only have 1 seam, but as I said I am concerned with the sag...
One other benefit of the "frame design" is you could put some acoustical material up there to help with 1st ceiling reflections. I plan to do a combo of frames and solid. The solids will be built with 1/4" masonite (to keep it light) and some 1x2 supports to help with bowing/sagging.

One other benefit of the "frame design" is you could put some acoustical material up there to help with 1st ceiling reflections. I plan to do a combo of frames and solid. The solids will be built with 1/4" masonite (to keep it light) and some 1x2 supports to help with bowing/sagging.

This is also what I was thinking, I am going to have some leftover lineacoustic, and could treat the first reflections in the ceiling with it. for your frames, how large are you going to make the gaps? my thought now is that if I go with 1x framing, maybe 1x4's, spaced at 12" on center (biscuit joined) use 3M spray on the supports, and stretch & staple the fabric, that might do the trick, but still, I would hate to build it, put it up there and find the fabric sagging in a year or two...

I understand the desire to go seamless, for a clean simple look. But seams can also be your friend. Seams can be part of the design to make you ceiling more interesting when the lights are on. Seams can create all kinds of design and details. And when the lights are off, the ceiling turns into a star field, surprise!

This is also what I was thinking, I am going to have some leftover lineacoustic, and could treat the first reflections in the ceiling with it. for your frames, how large are you going to make the gaps? my thought now is that if I go with 1x framing, maybe 1x4's, spaced at 12" on center (biscuit joined) use 3M spray on the supports, and stretch & staple the fabric, that might do the trick, but still, I would hate to build it, put it up there and find the fabric sagging in a year or two...
I'm still working out the design for mine. Spray glue was never really a consideration for me but you do bring up a good point about sagging. I would think if you stretched the fabric very tight, there would not be any sagging -- but who knows. One other thing to consider is will you see the 12"OC 1x's you are using under the fabric? I wanted to use as few braces as possible to let the fabric float and give a seamless look above.

I covered my HT ceiling with 9 (+1) fabric frames build with 1x2's, the fabric was stretched very tight, secured with Velcro strips and fastened with screws.
The frames are ~3,5' x 4' in size and cover the ceiling construction to deal with 1st reflections for the front and rear row and bass absorbtion.

I do not expect the fabric to sag, and even it does after some time - just remove the panel and re-tension it again! ;)

I would think if you stretched the fabric very tight, there would not be any sagging -- but who knows.

If you over stretch the fabric you get pull ripples.

I think this happens because when you stretch by hand you cannot pull evenly across the entire edge of the fabric. Even if you could pull the fabric even you would need a fastener better then staples. As you would need to evenly retain the fabric to minimize the ripples. I had this problem with my small frames. I would think it would be much more difficult with a 10' frame.

The trick is getting the fabric tight enough but without the ripples.

Hmm, well, I think maybe trying to do a frame 16' wide might be a little ambitious. so, I think the approach I will take will be a mixture. Some of the panels will be solid 3/4" mdf. some of them framed with 1x2's, and backed with lineacoustic for the first reflections. all of them will be the same size (approx 4' x 4'). i will attach to the furring strips with velcro and finish nails.

Hopefully this will work

sorry, double post.

Inspiring work GPowers. I haven't been able to find much on what you did for your ceiling aside from the soffit design. Is it painted drywall? What color did you go with? Are you happy with it?

Inspiring work GPowers. I haven't been able to find much on what you did for your ceiling aside from the soffit design. Is it painted drywall? What color did you go with? Are you happy with it?

The ceiling is a work in progress. I’ am up in the air between putting some kind of design or star field on the ceiling.

The temporary, current ceiling is drywall painted Kodak gray. Several years ago Kodak gray was the hot topic. Hard to find so I had it custom mixed. So it is very plane at this time.

All of my extra time has been taken up by redecorating the house. The progress on the home theater has been at a standstill for over a year now. But as soon as I get the master bedroom finished, it is back to the home theater and then in a year or two the kitchen. Not looking forward to that one.

I'v decided to put in an LED/fiber-optic star field; and I'm going to use frames to do so. I like the LED/fiber approach because 1) it's cheaper 2) each frame has it's own LED source emitter which won't burn out and 3) It gives me a way to cover the ceiling using black velvet.

In short, my plan is to make self contained ~4'x8' frames covered with velvet. Each frame has an LED illuminator and fibers. Th field (or collection) of frames is sized to be about a 12" smaller than the extent of the drywalled ceiling drywall which about a 9" shy of the lighted soffits as you have designed them. Finally, the entire group of frames is surrounded with crown molding (I'm using step crown) that hides the mounting screws, transitions the depth of the frames back to the drywall ceiling depth and created a bit of a shadow box effect to keep the starfield from being uplit by the soffit rope light. Since each frame has its own illuminator the twinkling effect shoud appear more random than a wheel based illuminator. Finally, each frame gets its own power outlet and just plugs in as it is installed.

There, what that short? I haven't yet decided whether I'll bevel the frames on the ceiling and I'll probably paint the remaining drywall, soffit and crown a light to medium grey as you did.

I'v decided to put in an LED/fiber-optic star field; and I'm going to use frames to do so. I like the LED/fiber approach because 1) it's cheaper 2) each frame has it's own LED source emitter which won't burn out and 3) It gives me a way to cover the ceiling using black felt.

In short, my plan is to make self contained ~4'x8' frames covered with felt. Each frame has an LED illuminator and fibers.
Could you please share your source for the LED emitter? I like that idea over having a separate lightbox.

Could you please share your source for the LED emitter? I like that idea over having a separate lightbox.
Check out starceiling123.com (http://www.starceiling123.com/) or trinorthlighting.com (http://www.trinorthlighting.com) they're both interesting sites. The unit from StarCeiling123.com is likely what I'll use. I figure I'll be able to put together a 128 sq ft ceiling for a lot less (<1K) than a traditional illuminator. I think I'll buy one and try it out to be sure.

Brian:

I used the table saw to do the first few frames that only had a horizontal, top and bottom, 45 degree cut. I switched to the router when i needed to do three and four sides of the panel. The table saw just did not produce the look i wanted on the corners etc...

The router bit is still working great and i have done about 40 panels. Can not say that for my 20 year old router. The trigger switch went bad.

The router bit is a Bosch brand and is very large & weighty bit, is was expensive too. Maybe thats why it is still cutting great. The smaller sears bits i have used usually start to burn and over heat.

So i guess it comes down to the tools you have at hand and i do not have a great table saw and the router produced cleaner frames.

Greg

I know next to nothing about woodworking router or table saws. I have been looking at either renting table saws and buying a router, until I saw this. Greg (or others), do you think a table saw like this would be up for the job?

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u129/dc_pilgrim/bosch.jpg
http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-4000-09-Worksite-10-Inch-Benchtop/dp/B00067IX1A******pd_bbs_sr_1/002-3567919-8936867?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1178893743&sr=8-1

I guess I was thinking if I need to buy a router and rent a table saw, maybe I can just buy a nice table saw and skip the router. If so, is this saw nice enough? I'll want nice 45s, so if its gotta be a router, so be it.

I think this happens because when you stretch by hand you cannot pull evenly across the entire edge of the fabric.

Make a stretcher bar - that is what we are doing. A couple pieces of 1 x 2 and 3-4 C clamps. You staple the first edge and then clamp the second edge between the 1 x 2 strips and then have two people pull evenly on the 1 x 2 stretcher as you wrap around the opposite edge. Maintain tension on the bar until you get it stapled.

Also, if you want to use screws to attach and don't like the screw heads, you buy button caps for flat head screws - very low profile and just press fit.

See Here (http://www.pro-dec.com/) for the caps. I used black from Rockler (http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/product_details.cfm?offerings_id=306&cookietest=1)

I know next to nothing about woodworking router or table saws. I have been looking at either renting table saws and buying a router, until I saw this. Greg (or others), do you think a table saw like this would be up for the job?

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u129/dc_pilgrim/bosch.jpg
http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-4000-09-Worksite-10-Inch-Benchtop/dp/B00067IX1A******pd_bbs_sr_1/002-3567919-8936867?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1178893743&sr=8-1

I guess I was thinking if I need to buy a router and rent a table saw, maybe I can just buy a nice table saw and skip the router. If so, is this saw nice enough? I'll want nice 45s, so if its gotta be a router, so be it.
Dave.,

I used a similar table saw (Ryobi's version of the same portable saw) for my panels and had great luck. The trick is to cut them close to length and route the 45deg at that time. With shorter pieces, it is easier to get a smooth and accurate cut. Once the angle is made, then you use your compound miter saw to cut them to the proper size. Honestly, when they are covered with material, any slight imperfection will not be noticeable. You can also use a sander to smooth out the corners if needed. My panels were 2-layers: Top was 3/4" MDF and the bottom was 1/2 plywood. The MDF is nice because it cuts so easily.

The router will do the trick as well but may take more time and will definitely produce more sawdust.

Do you have a buddy with a table saw you could try out a few pieces? That might give you a better sense if this method will work for you.

The Bosch saw should work ok. For the price (550-580) I would try to find one a larger table surface.

Somthing like this (http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/TS3650-Table-Saw/)

You might also check out Grizzly for great, although larger, table saws. If you have room, they are a better value than the wimpy movable ones.

Thanks Greg and Steve. Good suggestion to test it out. Unfortunately my friends are as handy as me (not), and I don't think anyone I know local has a table saw. I should sneak a piece through the carpenter's dewalt while he is here (or better yet, ask him to run a piece of scrap MDF) to see if I like the edge. Good suggestion!

My problem with a bigger saw is a shrinking garage. I need to be able to tuck it away easily. I need to pitch the saw purchase to the wife, but shouldn't be too bad. After a joint trim project, she appreciates having the right tool for a job.

My panels were 2-layers: Top was 3/4" MDF and the bottom was 1/2 plywood. The MDF is nice because it cuts so easily.

That was going to be my next question. I guess the MDF and Ply combo still the proven method. I wouldn't mind cutting down the cutting, but not if it will just cause other problems.

I am planning to take some time off work this summer to get through frame building - but painting in the rest of the basement will be the bigger priority in the near term. Playroom before theater. My columns are spaced to put two panels just like Greg's between them.

I'll post pics here when I get started. Steve, how did you like the Ryobi, anyways? I like Bosch (drill, sliding miter saw), but they aren't cheap.

You might also check out Grizzly for great, although larger, table saws. If you have room, they are a better value than the wimpy movable ones.

Oh sure, now you are taunting me (or my garage). :)

rm1759,

Did you start your star ceiling yet? How heavy is a 4'x4' mdf panel held overhead:-) ?

I built 4' x 5' frames out of 1x2's, filled the frames with OC 703, covered with black GOM, poked the star fibers through and nailed the panels to 1/4"x 2" furring strips glued to the ceiling with a brad nailer. You are right to be concerned about sag - my first panel sagged no matter how tight the GOM was stretched. I used 3M spray adhesive to solve the problem.

I used FRK 703 with the foil side (painted) facing the room and cut large diamond shaped pieces of the foil out for first reflection treatment. I didn't want to over-deaden the room by using totally unfaced material. I wasn't terribly careful about the size and placement of the foil cutouts because there are 6 seats and 7 speakers and i don't see how you can completely optimize that many variables for first reflections - but it definitely improved sound in the room. At the same time, the OC 703 provided an easy way to place the star fibers and hot glue in place.

I would have preferred fewer, larger panels but i mostly work on this at night by myself and have to be able to manage alone. The seams aren't really noticable to anyone but me, because no one ever stares at the ceiling in the theater room (except me while i'm figuring out the next way to spend more money on AV equipment) unless the lights are out and the stars are glowing.

Steve, how did you like the Ryobi, anyways? I like Bosch (drill, sliding miter saw), but they aren't cheap.
For a $200 saw -- it works out very well. It does a nice job if you take the time to measure things with a ruler. The gauge in the front is pretty close but if you need something to 1/32", then don't trust it. I've used it to make my DIY speakers (which took some pretty precision cutting) and my panels with great success.

THIS (http://www.ryobitools.com/powertools/tool/bts20/) is the one I have (looks like they have a new model coming out that can rip 3" wider HERE (http://www.ryobitools.com/powertools/tool/bts21/)). It can cut through just about anything. The only thing that bogs it down a bit is when I rip 2x4s at a 45deg angle. That takes a bit of force to get it through (even with a new blade. You need to be sure you have the saw on it's own 15amp circuit when cutting wood like that or you'll trip the breaker every time. I had to move the vacuum to another circuit to have both running at the same time. Also, since the table surface is not that large, I made some saw horses the exact height of the saw to hold the wood before and after the cut.

Now, is the Bosch at $800 a better saw? I'll bet it is. I'm all about buying quality tools because a cheap tool ends up costing you more than the expensive one in the long run)! But I've had my Ryobi about 3 years now and I've worked it to death building my HT and other home projects. It shows no signs of wear and tear. I'd say if you are okay spending $800 on the nicer saw, get it. But if you want to get your feet wet with something that works pretty well, check it out at your local HD. I think I paid $145 for mine because I bought the floor model and had a 10% off coupon.

rm1759,

Did you start your star ceiling yet? How heavy is a 4'x4' mdf panel held overhead:-) ?




I have begun, but I am not as far you!

As is usual with this project, plans change. I was concerned so much with sag, that I decided to go a little more conservative. I also work at night and alone, so weight was a concern for me. So, I decided to take SandmanX's design, and change it slightly. I cut 12 47" x 47" pieces of 1/4" hardboard (masonite). I then glued & stapled 1x2's around the outside. i changed my mind about using furring strips, thinking I could save another 3/4" of height in the room (height is an issue for me, I have 6"10" above my riser). plus, my thinking was that I only needed them for routing the cables. I figured I could leave gaps in the 1x2 masonite framing to run the fiber cables through.

So, I planned out each panel, located where the wires were running through, and all of the star locations (I am not using a random star spacing, I am going to reproduce the night sky with constellations). I built the 12 panels, and am ready to start the drilling process.

Trouble is, I had planned to use velcro to hold the panels up temporarily. they are not very heavy, and I have the industrial strength velcro. my thought was to put all of the panels up, then snug them up as tightly as possible together (I can leave a 1/2" gap on the sides and 1" on the rear b/c I have a light tray beneath the panels). And then use a finish nailer to attach them to the ceiling joists...

So far, this has not worked out too well. First of all, it is very difficult to get the velcro pieces on the panels to line up with the ones on the ceiling (it takes 24 hrs for the velcro adhesive to dry before you can put a load on it). I got it alright for the first 3 panels, but after that, I was too far off to reliably hold the panel up. and I didn't feel very comfortable walking underneath them...

anyways, I am continuing on. I am now ready to start drilling the holes. then I will put the fabric on with some 3M super 77, and staples. then I will put the panels up with 2 1/2" finish nails to the ceiling studs. If these don't seem too sturdy, then my last resort will be 2 1/2" drywall screws into the studs, and I will have to cover the screw heads with something...

I may start my own build thread and post some pics. The pictures I have taken in the room so far are too dark (all the walls are painted black, and there is not much light) but I will see if I can remedy that...

I built 4' x 5' frames out of 1x2's, filled the frames with OC 703, covered with black GOM, poked the star fibers through and nailed the panels to 1/4"x 2" furring strips glued to the ceiling with a brad nailer.

At the same time, the OC 703 provided an easy way to place the star fibers and hot glue in place.
Sorry to get off topic here -- but when you poked the fibers through the OC703, did you say you used hot glue to hold the fibers in place? Did the glue stick well to the OC703? I was planning to use some type of small cardboard backer piece for more gluing surface. Looks like I may not need it after all.

Swithey, no need for the backer - the hot glue holds the fibers quite well when applied directly to the 703. I recommend a variable heat glue gun - mine was a cheapie and it melted a lot of the fibers, especially the lightest gauge. Interestingly, melting seems to have had no effect on performance of the fibers.
JV

Swithey, no need for the backer - the hot glue holds the fibers quite well when applied directly to the 703. I recommend a variable heat glue gun - mine was a cheapie and it melted a lot of the fibers, especially the lightest gauge. Interestingly, melting seems to have had no effect on performance of the fibers.
JV
Thanks Jon. I have a cheap low-temp and a more expensive higher-temp model. I'll try the low-temp model to start but will get the variable-temp model if needed.

Hello all. I've read and enjoyed all the posts and different techniques that have been tried and I think I've settled on the one shown here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9942454&&#post9942454).

I'd like to take the time to do gpowers' method, but with the tools I have at hand, it looks like the above method will suit me best. I'm also going to alter the frames so that I can stick photo frames in at seemingly random spots, like puzzle pieces, giving it a more custom look

My concern is warping, though. I live in Toronto and the temperatures can swing wildly from super hot to super cool. Would particle board be the best material to use, or MDF? I'm looking for the best mix of weight, stregnth and structural stability. In an odd coincidence, my panels will also be 21x30, like gpowers', so with such a large size, I'm wondering if MDF would end up too heavy and if particleboard may perhaps be best.

Like the other gentleman, I am a hobbyist woodworker and I have a full shop in my garage and the knowledge to use it. I always wear a full respirator when working with MDF.

Despite my capabilities, I would approach this a different way. It is much safer and faster to use a track system. I bought my beveled track from Fabricmate Systems but there are other systems. It filled it in with a recycled product they sell that is made from old plastic bottles. It was a little more expensive but it had better acoustical qualities and nothing nasty in it. I cut with a razor knife. It was very easy, very fast (about 1/10th the time), and my wife did not complain about helping me hoist the MDF up onto the table saw.

Check out the recent news stories on the impact that the Formaldehyde had on the the Katrina hurricane victims or read any woodworking magazine. MDF can be used, I use it from time to time (Melamine coated) but you must take precautions.

You mite want to look into these http://www.frenchcanvas.com/heavy_duty_studio_stretcher_bars.asp

here is the thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=768967&highlight=french+canvas+frames

My HT is about 80% completed, but I would like to share the progress of my frames with you.

It started with this
http://www.rensmond.co.za/ht_images/framesA.jpg

After few hours of cutting and drilling I had all the pieces for the frames
http://www.rensmond.co.za/ht_images/framesB.jpg

With lots of help from friends and using a custom made jig
http://www.rensmond.co.za/ht_images/framesC.jpg

the basic frames were done.
http://www.rensmond.co.za/ht_images/framesE.jpg

I used my table-saw at 45º to cut the bevels
http://www.rensmond.co.za/ht_images/framesD.jpg

After hours of stretching and 1000's of staplers, some of the finished frames:
http://www.rensmond.co.za/ht_images/frames94.jpg

http://www.rensmond.co.za/ht_images/frames100.jpg

http://www.rensmond.co.za/ht_images/frames99.jpg

Looks great Johan. I am not sure I believe that all that cut wood was just a "few hours".

I mentioned this in an earlier post:

Luckily my local supplier offers free cutting, so I had 5 boards of 2.7m x 1.8m (6'x9') cut in strips of 6cm (2.3") -> 28 strips per board. I then only had to cut the correct length with a mitre cut-off saw it took me about 3 hours to cut all the wood for 54 frames.

Very nice, I really like how you integrated your speakers into the columns.

What method did you use to mount the panels?

Johan,

Did you have any problem with the staples pulling out of the particle board too easily?

Scott

Johan

what is the color and material used on your frames

Very nice, I really like how you integrated your speakers into the columns.

What method did you use to mount the panels?

I fixed small square blocks (16mm/0.63" thinck) to the concrete walls, then only using velcro on these blocks and the corners of the frames to keep the frames in place.
http://www.rensmond.co.za/ht_images/WallA.jpg

Johan,
Did you have any problem with the staples pulling out of the particle board too easily?

Not at all. I used staples that are 10mm wide and 8mm long. For the staples that went into the wrong place, I had to use a flat screwdrive to lift it.

Johan
what is the color and material used on your frames

I have no idea. I was looking into getting GOM but it was way to expensive to get it imported into SouthAfrica. So after a few visits to local fabric shops I got hold of this material. With the simple test of putting the material over your ear, it sounds very transparent but most likely not as good as GOM.

Johan, I realy like the way your frames look. congrats

Thanks Greg.

But you must get the credit for this look. I know other people have done this before you, but your detailed webpages and help on this Forum is truly appreciated. Thank you!!!

I'm having trouble visualizing how the fabric is stretched and stapled over the frames. It looks like there's only an inch or so of overlap on the back. How do you grab onto the fabric so that you can stretch it tight and staple it?

I also have a question on the frames, I am using the Dazian expo cloth, did anyone have to paint the frames before stretching the fabric?

I also have a question on the frames, I am using the Dazian expo cloth, did anyone have to paint the frames before stretching the fabric?

I was thinking about it, plus painting the areas where the frames meet to hide imperfections.

I am at least a couple months away from that point though. So, let me know what you do.

I'm having trouble visualizing how the fabric is stretched and stapled over the frames. It looks like there's only an inch or so of overlap on the back. How do you grab onto the fabric so that you can stretch it tight and staple it?

There was more fabric. Your looking at the finished frame, after the excess fabric was trimmed off.

Here is the procedure that I used:

The first edge is stapled with out any excess fabric. Then I placed the frame on the floor, with the fabric against the carpet. Then pull the fabric over the opposed side. At the same time placing pressure on the frame with your knee. The pressure holds the fabric tight as you slide the fabric over the back and staple it using the excess fabric to keep tension even and the pattern on the fabric straight. I used a lot of staples. They are placed about a 1/4 inch apart or closer.

You need to pull the fabric tight enough to make it look nice but not too tight as it will produce ripples in the fabric.

Repeat the same process the the remaining two sides. Then fold and finish the corners.

When done trim off the excess fabric.

I was thinking about it, plus painting the areas where the frames meet to hide imperfections.

I am at least a couple months away from that point though. So, let me know what you do.

I painted the wall area between the frames black.

You are right. any place the frames do not press up against each other you will see WHITE drywall between them.

There are places I did not paint the drywall black. If you stand directly in front of the frames you will see white between them.

I also have a question on the frames, I am using the Dazian expo cloth, did anyone have to paint the frames before stretching the fabric?

With the GOM fabric I used it was not necessary to paint the frames. With some fabrics you might need to paint the frames to make them less Noticeable.

There was more fabric. Your looking at the finished frame, after the excess fabric was trimmed off.

Here is the procedure that I used:

The first edge is stapled with out any excess fabric. Then I placed the frame on the floor, with the fabric against the carpet. Then pull the fabric over the opposed side. At the same time placing pressure on the frame with your knee. The pressure holds the fabric tight as you slide the fabric over the back and staple it using the excess fabric to keep tension even and the pattern on the fabric straight. I used a lot of staples. They are placed about a 1/4 inch apart or closer.

You need to pull the fabric tight enough to make it look nice but not too tight as it will produce ripples in the fabric.

Repeat the same process the the remaining two sides. Then fold and finish the corners.

When done trim off the excess fabric.Thanks for the reply, Greg. How much excess were you grabbing on to? What I'm thinking about is how many inches you have to "play" with per frame. If you cut the fabric in half, that would be 33 inches, yes?

Thanks for the reply, Greg. How much excess were you grabbing on to? What I'm thinking about is how many inches you have to "play" with per frame. If you cut the fabric in half, that would be 33 inches, yes?

It was not much.

It was a log time ago so i'am no sure of the exact measurements. But yes my design was done to accommodate cutting the fabric in half. The fabric was expensive so I needed to make the best use of it.

With the GOM fabric I used it was not necessary to paint the frames. With some fabrics you might need to paint the frames to make them less Noticeable.

With my frames & GOM, you could see the frame wood through the GOM because the wood was lighter in color than the black Linacoustic. So I spray painted my frames black before putting on the GOM.

Guy

I took the plunge...... The LG dual format player went on sale so I did. I already had the HDMI card for the NEC ISS switch so I was ready to watch HD movies.

Well not yet as i need to resolve a hand shaking problem between the NEC switch and the BH100 player, and oh ya there is also the projector convergance, and the color space problem with the output.

So it looks like the card is going back for a chip upgrade so it will be a few weeks be for I can continue to watch any HD movies.

But we did watch a few and yes, they do look a lot better than an upconverted SD-DVD.

Just need to work out all the bugs.............

Hello,

I have built 9 panels following the schematics from GPOWERS... I am about to install the 703 'behind' the panels (1" thick 703 insulation panels). How are people inserting these? This is a fiberlass board, so I imagine the fiber will poke through the GoM fabric... probably not a good thing. My particular 703 has backing, so I was planning on installing them with the backing against the wall, and the fiber against the GoM. What are others doing, and do you have any issues with the fiber poking/collating through the GoM?

The frames look great! I plan on doing the same thing (thanks!)? Also I really like the lighting and have been planning to doing the same thing; what kind of recess lighting did you use? Are they on dimmers?

Thanks again

The frames look great! I plan on doing the same thing (thanks!)? Also I really like the lighting and have been planning to doing the same thing; what kind of recess lighting did you use? Are they on dimmers?

Thanks again

The wall washing lights are:

Sea Gull Lighting: Black Miniature Recessed Light
Item #: 9426-12
Finish: Black

The low voltage lights are dimmed using a PCS LM4 control module

Hello,
1. How are people inserting these?

2. This is a fiberglass board, so I imagine the fiber will poke through the GoM fabric... probably not a good thing.

3. What are others doing, and do you have any issues with the fiber poking/collating through the GoM?

1. The fiberglass is just press in to the back of the fabric frame.

2. The Fiberglass id held in place by friction.

3. I used one inch linacoustic from John Manville Insulation. It has a facing on one side. That is the side that is up against the fabric

1. The fiberglass is just press in to the back of the fabric frame.

2. The Fiberglass id held in place by friction.

3. I used one inch linacoustic from John Manville Insulation. It has a facing on one side. That is the side that is up against the fabric

Yep - that is what I did as well for my frames.

My fg board also has backing on one side. It's like an aluminum foil material. So you guys are putting this side against the fabric? That;s where the sound is going to be coming in through, so I assumed I wanted the fiberglass in direct contact with the fabric, so the sound is absorbed. Wouldn't the backing be more reflective, and hence defeat the purpose of having the fiberglass in there in the first place?! <confused>

My fg board also has backing on one side. It's like an aluminum foil material. So you guys are putting this side against the fabric? That;s where the sound is going to be coming in through, so I assumed I wanted the fiberglass in direct contact with the fabric, so the sound is absorbed. Wouldn't the backing be more reflective, and hence defeat the purpose of having the fiberglass in there in the first place?! <confused>

The facing on the linacoustic from John Manville product is not aluminum foil. It looks like a more compressed version of the balance of the product. There is no stray fibers from the fiberglass that will come through the GOM material.

The 703 product is already tightly compressed so it should not be a problem sticking through the GOM fabric.

I do know that there is a spray on product that i have seen HVAC guys use on the unfaced side of 703 type products when they make HVAC air duct boxed. It doses give the un-faced surface a more finished feel and should control any stray fibers.

Thanks GPowers... I figured it out. My version has aluminum backing, but te other side is in fact just as you described... the fiber is sort of treated, such that it does not release at all.... so I let that side face the GoM. Panels are looking great! Now to figure out best way to attach mine. I am thinking of just using 4 screws, one at each corner. Then cover the screws with those neat hinge screw caps. I think I will need to pre-open the holes on the fabric with a soldering gun, so it does not fray.... still thinking about this approach...

Be aware that the direction that the backing faces will affect how much the panel will absorb highs/mids. Put the facing towards the room and it will be more reflective. Reverse it more absorbive. Or so I understand. I hired a consultant to design my room, and depending on location and purpose (e.g. bass trapping) he specified faced or unfaced insulation.

Got my HDMI card for the NEC switcher back this weekend from ROC. Moone did a great job. The card worked with out any problems. So now the LG HD player handshakes, across HDMI, with out any problems and the color space was fixed.

The next problem is the NEC 9PG+ will only do 1080i not 1080p so we are suffering with movies in 1080i.

Doug Baisey did a fantastic job fine tuning the HDMI signal. He produced a very sharp image. Thanks Doug.

Right now the frames butt up too the carpet. See the photo:

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/pic/HTDoneWalls03.jpg

Not sure yet if I will leave it for a clean uncluttered look or add some base molding. It depends on how it holds up to the vacuum. If I do add base molding it will be place on top of the frames and be 3 or 4 inches high with some kind of detail on the top edge.

Greg - how has it been holding up to the vacuum?

I am buying wood and mdf today and will start cutting down to strips.

Greg - how has it been holding up to the vacuum?

I am buying wood and mdf today and will start cutting down to strips.

It has not been a problem. But then again the room is only used 3 days a week, 2 to 3 at a time. So it is not vacumed every day like other rooms in the house.

...it is not vacumed every day like other rooms in the house.

Surely you jest. Or maybe this is done by the "help" :o

Without base molding, what about damage from feet? (kids)

Thinking about the fabrication process, if one wants to spend a bit more $$ and be a bit wasteful of material, but speed up the process, how about using 1" ultralight MDF (guessing about $40 per sheet, [1/2" is $30, 3/4" is $32]). Cost will be just over $1 per square foot. You could also laminate two 1/2" mdf, but the goal is to save labor.

First cut he MDF to desired panel size on a table saw.

Create a router template (or just use a router table with a straight cut bit and a fence offset of the stile/rail width, say 2"), and cut out the center of the panels. The whole panel also faciliates easier outlet holes when needed, etc.

The use the router table setup (much faster than freehand) to mill the bevel (lots of material removed, but a large router/table setup - 3HP home shop type).

For both operations (center cutout and bevel), be sure to use a VAC/dust collector.

Costs are higher, but you save all the time of assembling the frame from laminated strips, no real measuring to effort to stay square. One could probably finish each operation (panelization, center cut and bevel) in a few hours for a large room.

db

Has anyone considered looking into frames (Screen Splines) for screen windows with the rubber strips inserted into the tracks to hold the screen in place (in our case the fabric). There are pre drilled holes in the frames for screws or nails. Home depot or Lowes (Can't remember) sells individual lengths along with the rubber strips. If I get a chance I might test this.

Use one of these tools:
http://images.lowes.com/general/s/scrntool2.jpg

Without base molding, what about damage from feet? (kids)

The room will be three years old this December and the lack of a base board has not been a problem. Even with my grandchildern that are 2 & 4 year old boys.

Okay, I have a nice big pile of ripped down mdf (3/4")
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u129/dc_pilgrim/chopped.jpg
and ply (1/4"):
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u129/dc_pilgrim/ripped.jpg
Next step is cutting the mdf to add the bevel. I know Greg went with the router. I am a dead man if I buy another tool, so it will be the table saw for me. I need to work on my skills.
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u129/dc_pilgrim/bevellish.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u129/dc_pilgrim/bevelly.jpg

At this point, since Lowes only had 3/4" mdf, I went with 1/4" ply for my 1"frames (all but the back wall), I am thinking I will glue the mdf and ply before assembling my frames. I was planning on miter cuts, glued, with brads. I hadn't decided whether to make the miter cuts separately for the ply and MDF, or after they are glued. I was thinking about making the miter cuts first, then gluing the strips together, then joining the corners to make the frame. With this approach I might be making a frame a night. Slow yes, but doable.

Any comments? I am open to suggestions.

At this point, since Lowes only had 3/4" mdf, I went with 1/4" ply for my 1"frames (all but the back wall), I am thinking I will glue the mdf and ply before assembling my frames. I was planning on miter cuts, glued, with brads. I hadn't decided whether to make the miter cuts separately for the ply and MDF, or after they are glued. I was thinking about making the miter cuts first, then gluing the strips together, then joining the corners to make the frame. With this approach I might be making a frame a night. Slow yes, but doable.

Any comments? I am open to suggestions.

I'm also at the frame mockup stage and I used a hybrid approach that seemed to make the strongest frame. I wanted to cut my bevels before assembling the frames, so, like you, I got into a miter situation. What I ended up doing was laying out the bottom layer using butt joints and only mitering the top, beveled layer. This allowed me to still lap the two layers. Each top piece ends up being attached to two bottom pieces. I think it will work out nice and should keep my cuts simpler.
- Dave

I'm also at the frame mockup stage and I used a hybrid approach that seemed to make the strongest frame. I wanted to cut my bevels before assembling the frames, so, like you, I got into a miter situation. What I ended up doing was laying out the bottom layer using butt joints and only mitering the top, beveled layer. This allowed me to still lap the two layers. Each top piece ends up being attached to two bottom pieces. I think it will work out nice and should keep my cuts simpler.
- Dave


I had to read it twice (its me, not you) before I got what you are getting at. Interesting approach. I will see if that makes it better.

I guess my concern/limitation may be the 1/4" ply may be tough to work with. That was the reason I was thinking of joining the mdf and ply prior to joining the corners. I have an old corner jig from a wainscotting project that I plan to use. I got pretty good at making frames doing that one.

When I started my beveled edges, I tried the router... what a mess! I changed to doing all my beveled cuts with the table saw. I didn't do the miter cuts, but opted to just bevel the top layer (ie, the MDF) along the length of the side and top/bottom for the corners. I glued all the pieces together, then I used a brad nailer for extra strength. Actually, once I got my assembly line set up it was cruising right along... but it did take some time to do the whole room.

William, did you cut the mdf down into strips and then add a bevel? You may have told me this already, I should re-read my pm's.

Yes, I cut them to size first then I gave the MDF the bevel cuts. I have to admit that the GOM does hide some of the minor mistakes... :)

At this point, since Lowes only had 3/4" mdf, I went with 1/4" ply for my 1"frames (all but the back wall), I am thinking I will glue the mdf and ply before assembling my frames. I was planning on miter cuts, glued, with brads. I hadn't decided whether to make the miter cuts separately for the ply and MDF, or after they are glued. I was thinking about making the miter cuts first, then gluing the strips together, then joining the corners to make the frame. With this approach I might be making a frame a night.

The 3/4 inch MDF bevel is going to be a little larger then the 1/2 MDF. Should be and intresting look with a deeper kerf. Any photos yet?

Greg

Greg,

I think everyone tweaks your original pattern just a bit to meet their own needs, wether its the material or the room. Thanks for inspiring me to do my theater like this.

Greg,

I think everyone tweaks your original pattern just a bit to meet their own needs, wether its the material or the room. Thanks for inspiring me to do my theater like this.

Speaking of which, William e-mailed me these photos a while ago. They belong in this thread.

Here is Williams theater.
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u129/dc_pilgrim/William/SideShot.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u129/dc_pilgrim/William/Furniture.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u129/dc_pilgrim/William/FromBackofRoom.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u129/dc_pilgrim/William/Ceiling.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u129/dc_pilgrim/William/Wallwithpanelsandoutlet.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u129/dc_pilgrim/William/WallPanel.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u129/dc_pilgrim/William/UpperEquipmentRack.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u129/dc_pilgrim/William/LowerEquipmentRack.jpg

The 3/4 inch MDF bevel is going to be a little larger then the 1/2 MDF. Should be and intresting look with a deeper kerf. Any photos yet?

Greg

Nothing yet. I'll be posting though.

Just a side note - I am about to order my upholstery stapler and am wondering - what size staples are all you fellows useing for the GOM fastening - both on the frames as well as the proscenium arches etc.?

Lewis

Lewis, congrads sound like you are making progress if you are ordering tools. How far along are you?

Just a side note - I am about to order my upholstery stapler and am wondering - what size staples are all you fellows useing for the GOM fastening - both on the frames as well as the proscenium arches etc.?

Lewis

I've been using 1/2" and they seem to work well into both MDF and 2x4s. The key for me was getting the depth just right to hold the fabric as tight as possible without punching through or causing runs.

Speaking of which, William e-mailed me these photos a while ago. They belong in this thread.

Here is Williams theater.
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u129/dc_pilgrim/William/SideShot.jpg


If you'll excuse an off-topic question... what material and color is used here? It's what I've been looking to use in my build but haven't been able to find.
- Dave

Lewis, congrads sound like you are making progress if you are ordering tools. How far along are you?

Hi Greg - I am not that far along yet - we're still trying to clear out the room that's going to be renovated for the theater. It's a bigger job than I thought. I am hoping to start tearing open the walls this fall and make the "official start". I have to get an e-mail off to Bryan Pape as I want him to review and consult me a little on the acoustics as well. I like to do woodworking and have been trying to finish up a new shop that I added onto my house a few years back over the past year. It's almost to the point where I can start to use it to build the theater now. If I can just get my wife's "to do" list put on hold that is :D

I'll be posting up some pics when I get underway.

Cheers,
Lewis

Hi Dave,

I bought the material approximately 2 years ago and it's GOM (www.guilfordofmaine.com) and the last time I checked, it was still available but that was some time ago. What I did was to go to their website and looked at the various colors and had them send me the colors. The color is called FR 701 - 2100 Ultramarine.

My pictures I took of my theater are not all that great (light kind of washed it out) and I need to have a professional take some to show everyone its true colors.

Hi Dave,

I bought the material approximately 2 years ago and it's GOM (www.guilfordofmaine.com) and the last time I checked, it was still available but that was some time ago. What I did was to go to their website and looked at the various colors and had them send me the colors. The color is called FR 701 - 2100 Ultramarine.

My pictures I took of my theater are not all that great (light kind of washed it out) and I need to have a professional take some to show everyone its true colors.

Thanks for the note. I actually have a sample of Ultramarine - it was one of a few GOM colors that looked interesting online. One I received it, it looked much more green than I expected. This is interesting, because it looks blue in your pictures but I imagine it's more green like the sample I have. It's definitely difficult to take pictures that accurately represent the colors, especially in low light situations.
- Dave

Actually, there isn't any green in mine. I wonder if they changed the color?

Actually, there isn't any green in mine. I wonder if they changed the color?

Strange. If you go to post #28 in my thread (linked below), there are two fabric color samples pictures. The top was is was GOM is calling ultramarine. Doesn't look anything like what you posted. Maybe they changed it.

Interesting...
- Dave

I am going to build a few frames for my father-in-laws room and had a question. This is not a dedicated theater and I will want to attach the frames snug against existing drywall. What is the best way to do this? Sorry if this is a repeat please just point out a post number.

Use a French cleat

I have been playing with MainLobby. Working on getting all the single button macro Done. Here is a sample screen:

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/Pic/HT_remote_combo.jpg

More are at the Stargateunofficial (http://www.stargateunofficial.com/SGU_tList.asp?Type=Proc&Data=Remote_Control&Page=1&sort=num&cat=) web site

I have been playing with MainLobby. Working on getting all the single button macro

G-

Wow, I really am following your footsteps. I am currently finishing a fabric framed theater and also working on MainLobby control. I hope to automate my theater with as few button pushes as possible.

Your work on ML looks great. Did you design that scene yourself? I am using the 019's (a pic in my construction thread).

-T.Wells

G-

Did you design that scene yourself?

-T.Wells

I checked out your construction thread, very nice room.

The elements were all done by a member (Dan Nay) on the Cinemar Forum. I just took all the pieces and rearranged them.

All the buttons are based on mapped macros, so the theater can be turned on and off with ONE button.

Tonight I'am going to start playing with the MLServer web server and see if I can start the theater up from my Apple iTouch. Should be fun.....

I checked out your construction thread, very nice room.

The elements were all done by a member (Dan Nay) on the Cinemar Forum. I just took all the pieces and rearranged them.

All the buttons are based on mapped macros, so the theater can be turned on and off with ONE button.

Tonight I'am going to start playing with the MLServer web server and see if I can start the theater up from my Apple iTouch. Should be fun.....

Thanks! The theater is still a work in progress. I hope to start the frames and finish the screen wall next month.

I have found the folks over on the Cinemar forum very helpful. I am starting to learn the software and looking to automate things based on variables. I just found out that DVDLobby reports the aspect ratio of each movie being played. I am thinking about automating my theater based on the single touch of the movie:

User picks movie on touch screen, software reports aspect ratio and then triggers ->
- Power up equipment (select proper inputs and load/play movie)
- Set proper lighting level
- Set placement of anamorphic lens (in vs. out)
- Provide and trigger proper screen dimensions

-T.Wells

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/pic/iPod_Main.jpg

Over the weekend I got the new iPod Touch examples from Cinemar. Made a few changes and created three web pages for my iPod Touch.

Some one might say "oh Big deal". Well do not forget that these buttons on the iPod touch execute the same Mapped Commands that the Flash bases MainLobby does. So you get the the following advantages with the iPod touch:

1. Instant On , their is no boot time
2. Quick wireless connection
3. Small and light
4. Runs the same Command Maps as full version of MainlLobby
5. If you know how to create a web page it easy.

Moe photos of the iPod screens:

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/pic/iPod_hdRemote.jpg

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/pic/iPod_Lights.jpg

For me this is version 1 using the example from Cinemar. Cinemar also includes several JavaScript examples for accessing MLServer variables, screen refreshing and others.

Hi Greg, can you tell me how much liquid nails you used to attach the frames? Thanks.

Hi Greg, can you tell me how much liquid nails you used to attach the frames? Thanks.

A dab in each corner about 1.5 inches accross and a zig zag bead on all four sides.

Thanks!

Follwup question: Is there a specific reason for using poly batten on the upper frames instead of leaving them empty?

Follwup question: Is there a specific reason for using poly batten on the upper frames instead of leaving them empty?

When is first started look at building a home theater, i started look at the cost of every thing i wanted to do. The acoustics were important so I started researching the cost of getting a Home Theater acoustic designer to plan, speck, draw and supervise the construction and finish of the theater.

At this point I had to make choice due to a limited budget. Do I want a real Home Theater or just a set of plans. It was that expensive to hire a professional. I'm not saying you should not hire a pro, I just could not afford one.

So i did the next best thing. I read anb learned as much as i could and copied what the pros were doing. I do not always know all the reasons why something was done. Just that the formula produced a better end product.

And the poly was one thing of that nature. As I recall the poly is done for acoustic reasons and to fill the void behind the GOM.

Thanks Greg. It's good to benefit from the experience of others.

Robert:

How is the progress or your theater coming? Are your frames up yet? Have you posted any photos of your progress?

I searched the sites previously mentioned in this thread for GOM fabric, but I can't find anything on either SilentSource.com or InterfaceFabric.com. Can someone recommend a place for ordering GOM fabric?

fabricmate.com

A little difficult to navigate.

I searched the sites previously mentioned in this thread for GOM fabric, but I can't find anything on either SilentSource.com or InterfaceFabric.com. Can someone recommend a place for ordering GOM fabric?

Bryan Pape (user bpape on this forum) at Sensible Sound Solutions (http://www.sensiblesoundsolutions.com) is where I got mine. Fabricmate (http://www.fabricmate.com/) is another popular place to get it.

www.acousticalservices.com is another source.... although I have no personal experience with buying from them yet.

www.acousticalservices.com is another source.... although I have no personal experience with buying from them yet.

I think your link may be broken. Nothing is coming up.

here is the page on http://www.silentsource.com/fwallcoverings.html

Best thing is to use the GOM site to request samples, then call Silent Source

The GOM samples page is:

http://samplecenter.guilfordofmaine.com/

AKA: InterfaceFabric.com

I finally started to put my frames up:

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z268/Robert487/Fabricframes1.jpg

Many thanks to Greg for all the knowledge he's shared in the thread!

I finally started to put my frames up:

Many thanks to Greg for all the knowledge he's shared in the thread!

Your theater is starting to look finished. I like the color that looks like a texture. Keep sending the pictures.

Nice looking frames!!!

Gary Kagan

I am planning to use Dazian Janus material to cover my frames. As I started to think about how I would put everything together I realized I might have an issue shooting a brad nail through the fabric to hold it on the wall while the liquid nails drys. Has anyone tried this? My concern is the janus is a tighter weave than the GOM and the nailer might leave a hole in where the nail went through. The weave is about the same as celtic and expo.

Thanks,
Judson

I am planning to use Dazian Janus material to cover my frames. As I started to think about how I would put everything together I realized I might have an issue shooting a brad nail through the fabric to hold it on the wall while the liquid nails drys. Has anyone tried this? My concern is the janus is a tighter weave than the GOM and the nailer might leave a hole in where the nail went through. The weave is about the same as celtic and expo.

Thanks,
Judson

Someone else here on the forum built 1 x 4 wood runners that ran horizontally across the wall. He then attached Velcro to both the wood runners and the frames. The runners provided a more stable surface to attach and support the Velcro over trying to glue the Velcro to drywall. This technique would not require the brads.

Someone else here on the forum built 1 x 4 wood runners that ran horizontally across the wall. He then attached Velcro to both the wood runners and the frames. The runners provided a more stable surface to attach and support the Velcro over trying to glue the Velcro to drywall. This technique would not require the brads.

Thanks Greg!

I, like many of you are always looking for ways to speed up the process of building frames. I found this picture on the web page woodzone.com. Looks like a pretty easy jig for building lots of frames.

http://www.woodzone.com/tips/tip-images/frame-jig.jpg

Hope it helps!

If you do not want to build one Rockler has one:

http://images.rockler.com/rockler/images/17477-md.jpg

Frame Clamp (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=725)

Hello,

I just wanted to thank Greg and the other posters on this thread for all their guidance and inspiration as I created my fabric framed theater. I finished up the frames and mounted them this weekend.

I went a slightly different route than many here as I did not butt the frames up against each other and kept a constant gap throughout the room. I have attached a single shot to this thread but I have several more in my construction thread. Here is a direct link to the fabric frame post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13361402#post13361402

I really got an idea of how much work it takes to make these frames. I posted a detailed time-line in my construction thread but it was about 5 working days in total to get these babies done. However, the end result is well worth the effort. :) I am very happy to join the fabric frame club.

Thanks again,
T.Wells

Hello,

I just wanted to thank Greg and the other posters on this thread for all their guidance and inspiration as I created my fabric framed theater. I finished up the frames and mounted them this weekend.

I am very happy to join the fabric frame club.

Thanks again,
T.Wells

I'm glad that you were so inspired by the experimentation that resulted in a Fabric Frame Home Theater. I'm always intrigued at the simple variations that make a big difference in the final look.

Your small variation of spacing the frames made a very nice final product.

Now go and enjoy some movies.

Greg Powers

Thanks Greg. I hope to begin watching movies soon enough. I've gotta get the screen wall and masking system installed. :D

Here is an updated photo of the back of my rack. Some of the cable have been rerouted for a cleaner installation. There have been lots of updates:

1. Moone HDMI card in the NEC switcher
2. LG BH100 high definition player (Bly-ray and HD DVD)
3. Second Sony DVD player
4. Neothings component avalon switch
5. Gigabit Ethernet
6. Cable TV run from the house
7. Yagi antenna for over-the-air HDTV

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/pic/ht_Rack_back_V2.jpg

That power strip running the length of the side of the rack is a good idea.

The rack itself looks great.

That power strip running the length of the side of the rack is a good idea.

The rack itself looks great.

Made it easy to get to the power cords and it has room for wall warts. Horizontal power strips just do not have enough room for the wall warts.

Latest project, i got around to mounting the IR hardware. Here is a photo:

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/pic/HT_IR_connections.jpg

Just an update on playing with some new toys.

I have started to swap out my Roku soundbridge devices and convert over to Apples Airport Express. The Airport express is a pretty neat device when paired up with iTunes, and iTouch with Apples Remote App.

Every thing can be controlled from the iTouch remote. You can also sync the music play back across several AirPort Express units.

http://mme.6z1.com/images/iTunes.JPG

I guess i will keep the Roku devices as Internet clocks.

Version 3 of the Rack:

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/pic/ht_Rack_back_V3.jpg

Lots of changes. All the component and RGB video is gone. All video is now sourced over HDMI. A new eight port HDMI auto sensing switch handles all the video switching. All the audio has been converted over to TosLinks connections and is all switched through the audio receiver.

Several pieces of hardware have been retired, The Sony HDTV receiver, the old Sony DVD player, Sony VHS, Component Switch, and Rock plus video processor.

The new equpment or remaining boxes are the LG bh100 Blue-ray/HD-DVD player, the Sony HDMI DVD player, Samsung DTBH260F HDTV Terrestrial Receiver, Sony DA777ES 5.1 Sound processor, Monoprice HDMI auto switch and the NEC ISS 6010 RGB video switcher W/Moone HDMI. There is a lot of space in the rack now.

The wireless network has been changed out and now the wirless is done with Apples Airport express. The Access point doubles as a Digital music streaming device. So the Roku SoundBridge is now being used a an internet clock.

I think you need to tidy up that wiring...jeezzz... :)

Your right I need to clean up the blue network wire. The rest is ok for now. But still it could be cleaner.

Is that one power strip or more?

Is that one power strip or more?

One long power strip plugged it too an 20amp dedicated circuit. It works well with all the power warts. The power strip is desinged for six foot high equpment racks.

It is a Tripp Lite's PS7224-20 power strip 72 inches long.

Do you have everything plugged into that, including amps? And is it plugged directly to the wall outlet or are you going through a surge protector or UPS?

It is plugged in to a dedicated 20amp outlet. I have been a very bad boy and not installed any power power protection yet. We are in California and I keep rationalizing that we do not have lighting storms here. But we are exposed to power spikes. In the 20 years I have live in the house the power has destroyed one modem.

What i need is one of these:

LINEAR FILTERING AC POWER SOURCE (http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=02&id=ELITE-15i)

I hope you know I was being sarcastic..... :p I think it looks terrific.

I hope you know I was being sarcastic..... :p I think it looks terrific.

Thanks

I got that, but you must agree the network cable needs work!:D

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/Pic/HT_RetiredGear.jpg

Here is a photo of all the A/V gear that I removed from the rack. I waited a long time, over a year to do this. But when you have not used something in over a year it is time for it to go. That is the case with the Rock plus video processor and the HDTV box.

Once I started using the Blue-ray/HD-DVD player The Rock did not get used. And the HDTV box was a generation one receiver and had a tough time pulling in digital signals from LA, only 30 miles to the west.

All the newer devices also only send the fully upscaled video single over HDMI so the component video path for the older video players is obsolete.

I had a hard time pulling out these device as there has been a lot of money spent on some of these boxes. Not only on the botxes but also on the set up, configuration and calibration

I guess now is the time to add a second subWoofer. I have thought about adding a second subwoofer lots of times but this time I had to do it.

I started reading more about how to add additional subwoofer and the more I read the more I realized the best was to use identical components.

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/images/psw505.jpg

So just for fun I Googled for some prices. Well surprise, surprise the Polk PSW505 has been discontinued! Just my luck. But it was my lucky day as some retailers still had the PSW505 and they have reduced the price by 58%. So get out your credit card.

This weekend i will be installing a second Subwoofer.

You'll love what the second sub will do...