I like the way these fabric frames are turning out but it is a lot of work and produces tons of sawdust.

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/pic/HTDoneWalls01.jpg

Great looking.

How are you getting the bevel edge look? Is that the saw dust part?

How are you attaching them?

The saw dust comes from cutting all the two inch strips of ply wood and MDF to make the frames. I use both plywood and MDF. The plywood is the bottom layer and MDF is the top layer. The Plywood helps with strength and the MDF makes a nice clean 45 degree angle.

More saw dust comes from using the router to create the 45 degree corners.

See the attached photo

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/pic/HTFrames02.jpg

I started using Velcro, but after the first two frames switched to liquid nails and a 2 inch brad in each of the corners. With the nail gun set correctly the brad disappear under the fabric. If it is still visible i dab the top of the brad with a black felt tip pen.

Very Nice work, I will going to frames myself, because I prefer that look vs the chair rail. Do you have a pic of a finished frame(pre fabric) and is the finish product 1 or 2 inches thick?

Also is Industrail Velcro being used to hold the frame?

Ozzie

Here is a stack of frames ready for fabric.

The first two I used Velcro, then is started using liquid nails and a two inch brad in each of the corners. With a nail gun and the correct setting the brad disappears under the fabric.

GPowers
Thanks for these pics, the MDF looks like its about 3/4" thick, how thick is the finished product?

I want to use velcro, to make it easy for me to remove if I ever have to recover. Did the velcro give you problems?

Was the fabric cut at the corners in order to avoid a fabric buldge or did you resolve this a different way?

Ozzie

Plywood and MDF are both 1/2 inch thick to accommodate the 1" Linacoustic and poly batten.

There was only minimal fabric at the corners. It did not cause a problem.

I just did not like the way the Velcro was working, plus it was expensive.

Looks good Greg.

It's much easier to just build the frames on the wall and then add the GOM, poly and cloth, especially if you don't plan to change the panels for a long time.

I sincerly hope that everyone who works with mdf knows about the health issues that can arise when the dust isn't properly handled. GPowers your panels look great.

I sincerly hope that everyone who works with mdf knows about the health issues that can arise when the dust isn't properly handled. No, What are they?

Originally posted by GPowers
I like he way these fabric frames are turning out but it is a lot of work and produces tons of sawdust.

Hi Greg,

Couldn't agree more on the mess. However, like you, I like the look of my frames to be sure. I took a completely different angle on my frames because I wanted them to be removable and light but I do like your approach : ) .

Your theater looks very professional and I can tell you build with passion ! Very well done !

Chris

More saw dust comes from using the router to create the 45 degree corners.

Ok, as a woodworker I have to ask what the heck are you doing routing 45 degree corners when a table saw will do this quicker and with less dust? A saw blade only cuts roughly an eighth of an inch, a router is cutting out all that waste. And I cannot believe you would have a sharp router blade after a couple of panels.

Other than that, your finished product looks great and very professional! Much better than the typical GOM look I see over and over again on this forum.

Brian

I sincerly hope that everyone who works with mdf knows about the health issues that can arise when the dust isn't properly handled.

No, What are they?

If I remember correctly MDF is made with Formaldehyde.

Brian

Here is one of the safety spec sheets by one of the manufacturers of MDF...

http://www.sierrapine.com/products/mdf/medex/MSDS%20Medex%20-%20Medford.pdf

Chris

GPowers
You found 1/2" plywood?
I thought 1/2" plywood was not actually 1/2". Like 2 X 4 are not actually 2" by 4".

Also one more pic request if you have it is a close up of one of the panel corners to see how it was wrapped and staple. Preferably the back of one.

Again thanks a bunch, these photos help dummies like me that have never build a thing. :D

Ozzie

I think the plywood was 7/16" at $21 per sheet. I also found some hardwood vener plywood that was listed as 1/2" at $25 a sheet.

Pictures to follow this evening. I need to get some work done.

Brian:

I used the table saw to do the first few frames that only had a horizontal, top and bottom, 45 degree cut. I switched to the router when i needed to do three and four sides of the panel. The table saw just did not produce the look i wanted on the corners etc...

The router bit is still working great and i have done about 40 panels. Can not say that for my 20 year old router. The trigger switch went bad.

The router bit is a Bosch brand and is very large & weighty bit, is was expensive too. Maybe thats why it is still cutting great. The smaller sears bits i have used usually start to burn and over heat.

So i guess it comes down to the tools you have at hand and i do not have a great table saw and the router produced cleaner frames.

Greg

Greg,

Those are very nice looking frames. I still have not cleaned all the MDF dust out of my shop after making mine.

Clay

Clay

Thanks, it has been a four year process to get to this point.

My tempoary shop is the office area next to the theater. The nice thing is when it is not raining I do the worod working outside by the pool. But for the past week is has been raining in southern California. So all the sawing and routering has been done in the future office area.

Greg

Ozzie:

Here are a few photos of the corners. Very little bulk, the fabric was not cut, just pull around the corners. There is a slight ripple but it is past the 45 degree cut and will not be seen when the frames are pushed against each other.

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/pic/HTFrames07.jpg

As you can see the sun is shining again in SoCal so i can keep the saw dust outside.

Ozzie:

Another fabric frame photo

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/pic/HTFrames08.jpg

Ozzie:

One last one of the whole frame and my neat work shoes. This shows the whole back of the frame befor the Linacoustic or poly batten is installed.

In the picture where you show the outlet in the middle of the GOM panel. How did you do that?

Great looking panels by the way.

The left side of the frame is solid. The top piece of MDF extends past the two inch plywood under frame. Then I mounted a LV backless box in the whole to extent the existing electrical box and it also provides the mounting points for the receptacles.

I have another one to do today or Friday I will post a photo of the frame then.

Thanks, that would be great.

GPowers Thanks again!!!

Those last two picks you put up helped me alot. I am going to see of I can find 1/2" wood for my frames, 1/2" MDF is easy, but my 1/2" wood does not come out to 1/2" and would make my frame the incorrect thickness, but it appears that your 7/16" plywood seems to be good enough.

When you shoot the nails thru it did you pre-mark stud locations or are you just hitting the drywall?

Ozzie

Greg, I expect we will see many copies and derivations of your design technique. It really looks good and I applaud you for your creativity and attention to detail.

I hereby declare that this type of theater look will now be called the "Greg Gom" theater ;)

Originally posted by Rutgar
In the picture where you show the outlet in the middle of the GOM panel. How did you do that?

Great looking panels by the way.

I would like to see pic's of this as well.

Craig

Originally posted by Oswald Pascual
GPowers Thanks again!!!

When you shoot the nails thru it did you pre-mark stud locations or are you just hitting the drywall?

Ozzie

The brads are only two inches long so with the one inch frame, 5/8 inch dry wall and 1/2 soundstop board i'm not getting in to the stud. Two inch is the longest 18ga brad nail gun i could find.

The brad just holds the frame in place until the liquid nail drys.

Originally posted by PAP
Greg, I expect we will see many copies and derivations of your design technique. It really looks good and I applaud you for your creativity and attention to detail.

I hereby declare that this type of theater look will now be called the "Greg Gom" theater ;)

Thanks for the complement. But i have seen other like designs on this board.

This was in the planning stage for a long time. And i think others used the technique before i was able to implement frames in my theater.

The genesis of the design was from the Golden Dreams theater at Disney California Adventure, in Anaheim California. I had seen theaters with these frames before, but was unsure of the technique used to create the design.

Seeing the walls at the Golden Dreams theater brought it all together.

I think the biggest difference with my frames are the consistent size. Which was done for three reasons:
1. To achieve the look,
2. Minimize waist of fabric (two frames are the same width as the GOM fabric).
3. Assemble line production of constant sized frames

Originally posted by Rutgar
In the picture where you show the outlet in the middle of the GOM panel. How did you do that?



Below is a photo of a frame, before any fabric, with a receptacle on the left side. The low Voltage box is deep enough where it butt up against the existing box (not sure thei is to code but it works). It is also a box for existing work so it has the little blue wings on the back the box that sandwiches the MDF between the front and back of the box.

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/pic/HTFrames09.jpg

Here is a photo of the back of the frame with fabric and the acoustics installed. It shows the blue wings that hold he box in place

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/pic/HTFrames11.jpg

Greg,
Thank you for taking the time to post the pics of the frame with your electrical box. I am at that stage where I have been pondering options and like your approach better than what I came up with.

Nice job on the panels.

Best regards
Don

Below is a photo of some of this weeks progress putting up more frames. Fifty seven of th frames are complete. The remaining frames will cover the door to the equipment rack and the A/C return in the rear.

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/pic/HTDoneWalls04.jpg

You know the frames look really nice, but I think it is the lighting that really sets them off. If you had just room lighting without that wallwash effect I don't think they would look near as good. Again, great job.

The panels look really beautiful! Can you tell me what color/pattern of GOM this is?

Originally posted by GPowers
Below is a photo of some of this weeks progress butting up more frames. Fifty seven of th frames are complete. The remaining frames will cover the door to the equipment rack and the A/C return in the rear.



Wow that looks good!!! :)

Craig

Originally posted by Lawrence_Chiu
The panels look really beautiful! Can you tell me what color/pattern of GOM this is?

Gray on the soffit and columns: Spinel 3582 color 021 Obbsidian
Black on the screen wall: Sensa 9218 color 718 Black
Wall frames: Spinel 3582 color 022 Garnet

Greg,

Nice look!

Originally posted by bellm
Greg,

What are the dimensions of your panels? How are they attached on the wall? Do you plan to place pictures of the process of making them on your website?

Fantastic theater! For my taste, the best on the AVS forum


thanks,

Michael

Frames are 21" high, 30" wide and 1" thick. Just right to match the width of 65" width of the GOM fabric. You can cover two frames by cutting the fabric in half.

Frames are attached using liquid nails and 2" brads. Tried the Velcro but did not like it.

Web site has been updated. A section was added for the fabric Frames



Greg's GOM frames (http://www.stargateunofficial.com/SGU_tList.asp?type=Proc&data=Fabric%20Wall%20Frames)

Hi Greg,

Fantastic look. I love the beveled edges and am thinking of doing something very similar.

Question about the linocoustic and batting. How did you install that? Does it mount somehow in the frame itself or are you mounting the linocoustic on the wall with something like fender washers and then installing the frame over the linocoustic? Same question for the batting.

I'd also be super interested to hear more of your thoughts on the attachment method. That's been a trouble spot for me. Pros and cons of velcro vs liquid nials / brads. I've also been kicking around the idea of decorative bolts. I have three walls that slant inward at about a 45 degree so I've got some extra concerns about how secure the panel will be attached the wall. I'll be fighting gravity a little as opposed to a vertical wall.

Thanks so much for sharing your work. It's an inspiration! Great job.

J

JoeBryant
I am currently testing Commercial Velcro to decide if I will use it or not. I have it in the corner of my garage on the ceiling with a hammer hanging on it. Waiting to see if it hangs on long enough. So far so good. I am not parking my car underneath it thou.

Ozzie

Ozzie do you have a means of incrementally increasing weight till failure? I know crazy question.

Originally posted by JoeBryant
Hi Greg,

Question about the linocoustic and batting. How did you install that? Does it mount somehow in the frame itself or are you mounting the linocoustic on the wall with something like fender washers and then installing the frame over the linocoustic? Same question for the batting.


J

Thanks for the kind words.

The linocoustic and batting are just pressed in the frame before it is attached to the wall. The fabric is tight enough were is just states in place. You might not even need the the batting. The only thing holding the linocoustic and batting is the frame and the fabric. Here is a photo of the back of a frame. The frame has a floating receptacle so part of the back of the frame is solid:

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/pic/HTFrames11.jpg

Originally posted by GPowers
Thanks for the kind words.

The linocoustic and batting are just pressed in the frame before it is attached to the wall. The fabric is tight enough were is just states in place. You might not even need the the batting. The only thing holding the linocoustic and batting is the frame and the fabric. Here is a photo of the back of a frame. The frame has a floating receptacle so part of the back of the frame is solid:

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/pic/HTFrames11.jpg

Creative idea.. !!!

Craig :)

Outstanding work Greg,

I'm just starting construction on my HT and had similar idea in mind for wall treatment. I have one question regarding the inside corners where two walls come together.

How did you handle the bevels meeting in the corner??? I have tried to visualize how these will come together and can't seem to figure it out.

Holy CR*P MAN!!!

That is a lot of work!!

The system on my walls is a plastic track which is simply nailed into place. Then the fabric is stretched over that and pressed into the track with something resembling a pizza cutter. Makes it easy to change out the fabric later.

But man!!! Gotta admire the thought and design that went into all of this. The end results are stunning!!

Originally posted by SR1355
Outstanding work Greg,

I have one question regarding the inside corners where two walls come together.



I cut a one inch by one inch strip of wood out of a 2 x 4 the runs floor to ceiling. Covered it with the same gray GOM that the columns are covered with. Then the frames butt up against the 1 x 1 with a non beveled edge. It creates a nice corner. The other option was to put a column in the corner. But I like the option better, it was cleaner and less bulky.

I will take a close up of the corner and post it.

Greg,

I didn't even think of that. I kept trying to continue to bevel detail through the corner. I'd like to see that close up when you have time to post it.

Thanks for the info.

Originally posted by PeterS
Holy CR*P MAN!!!

That is a lot of work!!

The system on my walls is a plastic track which is simply nailed into place. Then the fabric is stretched over that and pressed into the track with something resembling a pizza cutter. Makes it easy to change out the fabric later.



Thanks Peter, it was allot of work. Spent all of my two weeks of Christmas vacation building frames.

I looked at the products that are commercially available, but my budget would not allow it. So I had to come up with a sweat equity solution. Basically my cost was 3 sheets of 1/2 MDF 3 sheets of 15/32 plywood ,10 tubes of Liquid Nails, 32 oz of glue, a router bit, and about 3000 1 inch brads. And i better not change my mind on the fabric.

Originally posted by GPowers
Gray on the soffit and columns: Spinel 3582 color 021 Obbsidian
Black on the screen wall: Sensa 9218 color 718 Black
Wall frames: Spinel 3582 color 022 Garnet

Greg,

Great job! Looks sweet!

When you installed the panels under the soffits, I assume there was no backing behind the fabric? Was there any issues with the lights on the soffits? Did you just cut a hole and install the panel or did you frame out around the hole for the light using MDF? What kind of lights are those?

Thanks,

Bud

Very nice work Greg. We think along the same lines. I am impressed you had the patience to take pictures along the way.

I did something similar but with multiple, hanging, large panels throughout a multi-purpose room. I used 1" MDF (yes, messy) and a 1/4" piece of luan plywood on the back to give it the needed rigidity, triangulation and good staple material (I stapled the fabric on). Then I cut large holes in the 1/4" luan for a little airgap behind. I also added a little frame in the middle to put a nail into to hang pictures on it...strictly for the WAF...obviously not for performance.

Also, I use acousticotton (expensive) so if my kids use a panel as a "birm," banking off one as they round the couch, it doesn't damage the panel by compressing the dampening material. Nevertheless, my finish fabric (at $16/yrd) is more than half the price of my panel (discounting the time it took to make them).

As Greg knows, take your time, plan your project, and make sure you have the right tools. It is not hard to do...but man...it takes a TON of time and patience! If at all possible, practice on a single smaller panel before making a big materials commitment. That way you will know what you are really getting into, and if you are even capable of creating a finished product that meets your quality control requirement.

I wrote up something a while back for another AVS member that described my process, but my HD crashed last summer and I am not certain I still have it. If anyone is interested in it, pm me your email and I will see if I can find it. It is a big file since it has images.

Originally posted by PeterS
The system on my walls is a plastic track which is simply nailed into place. Then the fabric is stretched over that and pressed into the track with something resembling a pizza cutter. Makes it easy to change out the fabric later.

Peter, out of curiousity, what is the plastic track you're talking about?

Originally posted by chinadog
Greg,

Great job! Looks sweet!

When you installed the panels under the soffits, I assume there was no backing behind the fabric? Was there any issues with the lights on the soffits? Did you just cut a hole and install the panel or did you frame out around the hole for the light using MDF? What kind of lights are those?

Thanks,

Bud

Frames were not used on the soffits. The fabric on the soffits goes from the wall along the bottom of the soffit, up the front and over into the light tray. I added one inch strips of 3/4 MDF to create a 1 inch cavity for linocoustic. Addition blocking, 1 inch thick, was add around the seagule lights. The photo below is looking down the length of a soffit just before installing the linocoustic. The wall is to the right, with the 1" x 3/4" strip of MDF. http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/pic/HTSoffit03.jpg

This photo showed a section of the MDF soffit before the 1 inch strip were added:

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/pic/HTSoffit01.jpg

Greg, thanks for the response.

Sorry, to be OT. From your first picture it looks as though the lights are low voltage. I like the look of many small lights installed in/on the soffit. I have four sconces wired now, but they are very close to the front and back walls and am thinking of taking them out. I'm still in the frmaing/wiring phase, so it won't be hard to do. You mentioned seagule ... are these just the accent spots you find at HD that you put in cabinets. They're usually surface mounted or recessed?

I like your technique for your soffits. I did it the hard way. I actually framed mine out with 2x4s and need to figure out a way to add a tray for the rope lighting. Once I have the rope light tray, I'll use your technique for handling the fabric on the soffit.

Thanks again,

Bud

Originally posted by chinadog
Greg, thanks for the response.

...From your first picture it looks as though the lights are low voltage. I like the look of many small lights installed in/on the soffit. ....
Bud

They are low voltage recessed lights that were a special order at lowes.

Sea Gull Lighting: Black Miniature Recessed Light
Item #: 9412-12
Finish: Black
Seagull LV recessed light (http://www.seagulllighting.com/SiteCatalog.cfm?ProductID=9840&TemplateDisplayMode=2&ProductDetailCategoryCode=7)

Greg,
You need to put transformer for those lights, right? Are they quiet? Where did you put them? Thanks.

Originally posted by mich5
Greg,
You need to put transformer for those lights, right? Are they quiet? Where did you put them? Thanks.

Yes there is a transformer. I did not purchase the high dollar one form SeaGull, but opted for one that was cheaper from lowes. Just make sure it has the correct wattage to drive all your lights.

The transformer does have a very low hum. I mounted in the closed behind the equipment rack. You can not hear it. The transformer has not caused a problem with the video or audio. I did have a problem with the sub-woofer when i first set things up but it was the audio cable between the sound processor and the sub.

Greg

Greg,
That is beautiful work! I was in a high-end HT store today. One of the rooms had individual panels covering all the walls and the price for those was something like $24,000!

Originally posted by SR1355
Greg,

I didn't even think of that. I kept trying to continue to bevel detail through the corner. I'd like to see that close up when you have time to post it.

Thanks for the info.

Here is a photo of the finished corner:

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/Pic/HTDoneWalls12.jpg

Man - That looks awesome!

Did you think of how to do all of this on your own? Are you in the business?

You should be proud. Not just of the result, but of the process too.

Greg,

Do the lower panels go all the way to the floor or start at some base molding? Since they're an inch thick, was curious if you just by-passed the molding and went to the floor, used standard base molding or made something thicker. Thanks.

Bud

Excellent work!

Also curious as to your approach on the columns. How did you attach columns to wall? How did you attach fabric to columns? Do you have a row of staples hidden by your fabric panels?

Regards,
Bob

What type of bit do you use on the router?
It looks like a straight 45 degree cut.

Oh I also found 1/2" MDF, I was wondering why you did not glue two 1/2" MDF together to give you the 1" you were looking for?
MDF looked fairly strong to hold wrapped fabric.

ALso are you cuts about 1.5" wide?

Ozzie

Originally posted by rmurto
Excellent work!

Also curious as to your approach on the columns. How did you attach columns to wall? How did you attach fabric to columns? Do you have a row of staples hidden by your fabric panels?

Regards,
Bob

Here is a photo of one of the rear columns before the acoustics are installed:

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/pic/HTFabric11.jpg

The columns were build and coverd with fabric as free standing backless units and then attached to the wall with hidden cleats.

The fabric was stapled to the columns using 3/4 x 1 inch MDF strips. Too get two columns covered out of one piece of fabric i could not wrap the fabric around the back corner and staple it to the inside (fabric was not wide enough). So the fabric is stapled to the 3/4 x 1 MDF strip on the back edge. The wall frames hide this as the wall frames were installed after the columns.

Originally posted by Oswald Pascual
What type of bit do you use on the router?
It looks like a straight 45 degree cut.

Oh I also found 1/2" MDF, I was wondering why you did not glue two 1/2" MDF together to give you the 1" you were looking for?
MDF looked fairly strong to hold wrapped fabric.

ALso are you cuts about 1.5" wide?

Ozzie

Yes the router bit is a straight 45 degree cut. It is a heavy duty Bosch bit. See the photo below:

I guess you could use all MDF, but I used the plywood for strength. There is only a 1/32 of an inch difference using plywood that is 15/36. There is only a buck or two differance between the MDF and plywood per sheet.

The frame rails were 2 inches wide. This allow enough space to make adjustment were needed. Like the last frame of each column that butts against the floor.

Originally posted by dave7
Man - That looks awesome!

Did you think of how to do all of this on your own? Are you in the business?

You should be proud. Not just of the result, but of the process too.

Thanks! I look at the room and sometimes cannot believe it is mine. Then I look at the stack of receipts.........

Not in the business. The whole room was done from information gained from this forum, several years at CES trade show and lots of planning.

Originally posted by chinadog
Greg,

Do the lower panels go all the way to the floor or start at some base molding?

Bud

Right now the frames butt up too the carpet. See the photo:

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/pic/HTDoneWalls03.jpg

Not sure yet if I will leave it for a clean uncluttered look or add some base molding. It depends on how it holds up to the vacuum. If I do add base molding it will be place on top of the frames and be 3 or 4 inches high with some kind of detail on the top edge.

Can you explain more detail on the attachment of the column to the wall? Are they removable? Do you have to take down panels to remove the columns?

Regards,
Bob

Greg,

Thanks for the picture of the corner detail. Your attention to detail is fantastic. I've just finished demo in room that will be HT and will be framing tomorrow.

Again, thanks for info and I post picks as my HT develops. Hope to have up and running in 3-4 weeks with completion being 2-3 months.

Greg
Skip the base moldings, I was considering base molding for my room, but I think your look is much cleaner looking without the base molding. I would not mess with perfection.

Ozzie

Originally posted by rmurto
Can you explain more detail on the attachment of the column to the wall? Are they removable? Do you have to take down panels to remove the columns?

The hidden cleats are just 2 x4's that were cut to the width of the columns. I made three cleats for each column. Then the 2 x 4 cleats were screwed to the wall, almost at the top of the column, middle and almost at the bottom. Then the columns were lifted in to place and slipped over the cleats. Screws were then, very carefully as to not snag the fabric, used to attache the columns to the hidden cleats.

Too remove the columns i would most likely need to remove some frames to get to the screws, as they are hidden by the frames.

The attached photo shows one of the locations of a rear column. You can see the top cleat and the center cleat. The center cleat is part of the speaker support.

Greg
How did you handle the area were the wall meets the door frame?
I was considering to just make a square door frame mold and wrapping it in GOM.

Ozzie

Originally posted by Oswald Pascual
Greg
How did you handle the area were the wall meets the door frame?
I was considering to just make a square door frame mold and wrapping it in GOM.

Ozzie

When the door frame was mounted I ordered a extra wide frame so I could have it extend 1" past the drywall. So when the fabric frames were mounted there were flush with the edge of the door frame. See photo below. So for now I'am just going to leave it flush. In the future I might add some trim.

I was wondering how to do the angled (beveled) edges. I don't have any wood working experience, so any advice would be appreciated.

Originally posted by Lawrence_Chiu
I was wondering how to do the angled (beveled) edges. I don't have any wood working experience, so any advice would be appreciated.

The beveled is created by cutting a 45 degree angle on the out side edge of wood frames.

Greg,
Are you able to dim those low voltage lights?

Originally posted by mich5
Greg,
Are you able to dim those low voltage lights?

Plan too using PCS LM4 (http://www.pcslighting.com/LM1-LM4.htm) control module.

When the GOM stuff is done, one or two more weekends, i will move on to the lighting (step lights, stage lights, screen wash lights, light tray lights, more recessed ceiling lights, rack work lights, etc...) lighting control and remote control stuff.

I will know more then, But it is suppose to work.

Originally posted by GPowers
Plan too using PCS LM4 (http://www.pcslighting.com/LM1-LM4.htm) control module.

When the GOM stuff is done, one or two more weekends, i will move on to the lighting (step lights, stage lights, screen wash lights, light tray lights, more recessed ceiling lights, rack work lights, etc...) lighting control and remote control stuff.

I will know more then, But it is suppose to work.

How much does the PCS cost... ???
I was looking at the Lutron Grafik Eye, but it is pretty pricey.

Craig

I am using a very cheap X-10 to control my sconces and riser rope lights. It's programmed on to the pronto, and everything seems to happen fairly simple. That was in my old theater. IS this LM4 something that can be done after the fact that the room is finished(RF control)?

FYI. I just posted this in another thread, but think its applicable here...

I've been looking online today and got discouraged that many of these wall fabric systems I found had to be done by an installer. You couldn't just buy the system and do it yourself. I did check with Wallmate and they have a neat product called Fabri-lok, but no pricing info or where to buy it. I did send them an email and got a reply from someone named Lyle. I just responded to him about cost and estimating. When I hear something, I'll repost. meanwhile, here is a link to a PDF that shows different edge profiles and install techniques. Good info.

http://www.wallworks.com/images/fabrilok.pdf

Bud

Originally posted by chinadog
FYI. I just posted this in another thread, but think its applicable here...

. meanwhile, here is a link to a PDF that shows different edge profiles and install techniques. Good info.

http://www.wallworks.com/images/fabrilok.pdf

Bud

The PDF is full of great ideas and samples. Wish I had access to something like this before I did my project. It presents more options and variety.

Wow that fabri-lok system looks awesome. Wish I had known about that before putting up all my ripped pine. Anyone have an idea on cost?

Originally posted by suffolk112000
How much does the PCS cost... ???
I was looking at the Lutron Grafik Eye, but it is pretty pricey.

Craig

PCS LM4 is on the high end of x10 devices. It has four channels to control different circuits, a great software program to set it up and works well with a PC. I decided to continue to use X10 as I have a home automation system based on X10 and the JSD Stargate.

Cost of a PCS LM4 is less then a Lutron Grafik Eye. Although each unit has it own different features.

I have not seen the Fabric-Loc system, but I have seen the wall mate, and it was very pricey. Cutting up pine or MDF was way cheaper. Maybe this Fabric-Loc is cheaper, but I found no no price on there website, and I could not tell how it actually attaches to the wall. Is it some type of track system?

Ozzie

Greg,

I begin my HT next month, Erskine design, DIY construction. I like the wall panel look the best, I've seen this before and yours is fantastic, thank you for sharing. My neighbor works for USG and got a similar system at no-cost for his HT (turns out it IS who you know after all).

Question:

While we're waiting on the Wallworks price to come in, would it be difficult to install the same frames as yours but use a track system attached to the plywood? or perhaps a system on hangers that mounted them flush?

P.S. - I found your HT on the Stargate site not AVS. I can't wait for my Stargate with Homeseer configuration!

Originally posted by LimoWreck
Greg,
Question:

While we're waiting on the Wallworks price to come in, would it be difficult to install the same frames as yours but use a track system attached to the plywood? or perhaps a system on hangers that mounted them flush?

P.S. - I found your HT on the Stargate site not AVS. I can't wait for my Stargate with Homeseer configuration!

For me is was a cost issue, Liquid Nail and brads were cheap. I suppose you could use some kink of "L" brackets to mount the frames. But you need to source it or fabricate one. Same with a track system.

I know you will enjoy your Stargate. The one problem I had was the wife acceptance factor.

Hey Greg

Awesome work!!!

You really make me want to redo my existing hometheater after seeing what you did.

I was wondering where you got all your fabric from (did you order it online or buy it locally) Is the stuff expensive.

Lastly you put in some kind of batting just wondering where you purchased it and what kind it is.


Thanks
Steven

Greg,

Where did you staple the fabric on your soffits so that they wouldn’t be seen? Are the staples closest to the walls covered by your panels? What about the seams in the corners?

Thanks!!


Sam

Originally posted by Sam Dotson
Greg,

Where did you staple the fabric on your soffits so that they wouldn’t be seen? Are the staples closest to the walls covered by your panels? What about the seams in the corners?


The seam along the wall was done using he hidden seam technique. The fabric then wraps around the bottom and the side and staples in side the light tray.

Greg

Originally posted by sharms

I was wondering where you got all your fabric from (did you order it online or buy it locally) Is the stuff expensive.

Lastly you put in some kind of batting just wondering where you purchased it and what kind it is.


It is all GOM about $1,100 bucks, bought it on-line.

The bottom half of the wall is JM linocoustic the top is a 1" loft Poly Batten from Joann's fabric. The bottom of the soffit and the entire area behind the screen and speaker walls are also JM linocoustic.

Greg,

Did you look into any other acoustic material other than linocoustic? If so how did they compare? What site did you purchase it on and how much was it?

Thanks, Kevin

GPowers:

Did you do any before and after ETF5 measurements ?

Originally posted by KevinRS
Greg,

Did you look into any other acoustic material other than linocoustic? If so how did they compare? What site did you purchase it on and how much was it?

Thanks, Kevin

Only look at products discussed on this forum. A good source of info is the thread:

.Acoustical wall treatment debate (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=255432)

The first choice was Owens Corning Fiberglas 703 Series duct insulation. I sourced the Owens Corning product through Home Depot during the planning phase of the home theater project. When is came time to purchase Home Depot could not get the product.

So I switched to my second choice Johns Manville Linacoustic. Went to the Johns Manville website and found a supplier in the LA area. They shipped it too me, I live 30 east of Los Angeles

Greg,
Thanks for the info.

Kevin

Originally posted by BasementBob
GPowers:

Did you do any before and after ETF5 measurements ?

No, sorry i'am not that technical.

Any new on the wallworrks fabrilok system?

Here is the response I got:

Hello Bud, thank you for your inquiry.

Please let us know if you are inquiring about one of our Trak system applications or perhaps about any of our Modular (premanufactured) Panel products.

For USA sales of our Trak systems products please contact:
Master Distributor - FabriTrak Systems, N.J.
Attention : Lou D'Angelo, 1-609-409-6700,
(your inquiry has been forwarded)

For Modular Panel products or other speciality items you may contact us directly and we will be pleased to supply directly to you.

Lyle Fuller
1-877-829-2550, ext 23
lyle@wallworks.com

I have not heard back from Lou at this point and have not had the opportunity to call yet. I'll try him on Monday.

Bud

Good.

It sounds as if they would supply the parts.

Awsome work Mr. Powers. Just what im planning on doing. I first saw this type of design at www.cinematechseating.com




p.s. Im not affiliated with Cinematech Seating in any way. I merely posted the site to compare with Greg's design.

Originally posted by ifeliciano
Awsome work Mr. Powers. Just what im planning on doing. I first saw this type of design at cinematechseating

Now that I have done this theater and built up my confidence I would try something more elaborate next time. Something with more diversity then just continuous same size frames.

I ran across this company, AcousticsFirst, in one of my home recording magazines. They even have the beveled 45 degree look like Greg's.

no pricing but I will call them. They do any size up to 4 feet.

go to acousticsfirst.com to see this product.

(you have to copy/paste the link above until this forum logs 500 entries for me to allow url posts). I have 498 left to go.

LimoWreck, did you ever get pricing info from Wallworks?

I was researching fabric-coverings on speaker columns, and I recalled GPower's nice looking panels.

I'm considering doing something like the way regular speaker grill frames attach to speakers.

Has anyone ever used these on the front face of a column?

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=260-367

http://www.partsexpress.com/images/260-367m.jpg

http://tinypic.com/1hwnrn

Do you think they might also work on panels like yours?

They're certainly cheap enough to try... (15 cents per pair)

Clarence-Larry Chanin used those for his procenium. Pretty good sized panels.

Originally posted by Clarence


I'm considering doing something like the way regular speaker grill frames attach to speakers.



These look like a great way to make the frames removable. One concern that i would have would be the possible of the frame vibrating against the wall and causing a rattle.

They are definitely worth a try to see how they perform.

I feel the same way about the vibrations as Greg. Another thing is that they are a bit more labor intensive to install because you need to drill both sides of the attachment point. You better make sure it is located properly.

I ended up using industrial Velcro to attach my grills, which are very large (see my gallery). Vibration is not an issue, and there is a built-in fudge-factor for installation. Furthermore, I ended up using very little Velcro. The initial installation of the velcro made my grill essentially permanently mounted. I nearly broke the oak frames trying to get them off. I then reduced the Velcro by a lot, now using only 6 2-3"x1-2" strips. The thickness of the Velcro (hook side and loop side combined) makes the frame stand off of the structure and thus avoids rattles there.

If you made large and heavy acoustic panels that you wanted to be removable, you could try just using more Velcro…heck, it’s cheap enough to fail without too much financial pain.

The best way to handle chamfering MDF is to use a table saw to cut most of the material away and then use a carbide router bit with a ball bearing guide roller to clean up the edge. There is no way you can get a clean cut with a table saw and you take to much material if you use the router bit to do it without ripping it with the TS first, although it will work and I have done it many times when I’m in a hurry. Also, you should use a good quality mask when cutting MDF.

Looks great Greg.

Thanks gregavi it was a lot of work.

Never though of using both the table saw and router to finish it off.

Here is an update on fabric frames. This is a photo of the back corner were the A/C return is. The top still need to be finished with a black counter top (Granite, corian or the like).

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/pic/HTDoneWalls06.jpg

The last area to finish is the door covering the equipment located in the front left corner.

Love the look. Nicely done.

I checked with local (Dallas area) distributor for Fabri-Trak (US distribution of the Wallworks product) and discovered that they will not sell the tracks to individuals. They perform the entire installation service including acoustical treatments and fabric. Since I am planning to do the work myself, this doesn't work out fo me. If anyone has found a distributor that will sell directly to the public, let us know.

Regards,
Bob

rmurto,
I have talk to Wall Mate out of California.
They have pretty much the same system.
And, I think they would sell you.
thanks.

The Ordering page of the Wallmate site says this:

"We are not able to respond to the many inquiries we receive from home designers, decorators or those who's livelihood is not related to professional groups (Acousticians, Architects, Facility Managers, Hotel/Restaurant Managers, members of the Painting & Wallcovering Contractor's Association, Film-Music/ Entertainment Industry, et, al.)"

I can understand why some specialty product manufacturers only want to sell to repeat installers (to keep support costs lower), but I would be willing to buy a product like this with no support obligations since I'm the type to just work through problems on my own.

Maybe I can have a painter friend of mine order for me.

Originally posted by jlange
... I would be willing to buy a product like this with no support obligations since I'm the type to just work through problems on my own.

We are cut from the same mold in this regard.

I went down this path a year ago with similar products and got nowhere. I'd be interested in your results. If you are required to make an absurdly large purchase, PM me and perhaps we can find some others that would go in on a big purchase.

Have you guys looked at fabricmate? My indications are that they would sell to the end user and they have a similarly easy system to put up. I'm trying to decide right now if I'm going that way or try to go about building frames.
Greg

All,

I just received a call from Milton Morris from Wallmate. I had sent him and email a few weeks back and he just discovered it. Turns out that they WILL sell to the consumer. Apparently they just revamped their system and have tracks in 7/16", 9/16" and 1". The costs are 1.55 (7/16), 1.65 (9/16) and 2.05 (1") per foot. They have square, beveled and radius tracks. I'm still a few months out from the fabric, but I plan on calling and ordering at least some sample pieces in the not so distant future. Here is Milton's number: (818)772-7770. Tell him Bud sent ya!

Bud

Hey, Bud,
Make sure keep us posted on this?

Thanks
Ken

Hi Greg:

Sent a PM to you yesterday and after that decided to re-read the entire thread to make sure my question was not answered somewhere in the chatter.

On your soffits -
- what are the dimensions of them - from the wall to the edge of the soffit where it turns up to form the tray and from the ceiling to the bottom horizontal surface of the soffit

- how far out from the wall are your lights mounted (i.e. the center of the light out from the wall, going in a horizontal direction

- how far down from the ceiling is the inside horizontal surface of the light tray and how big a "lip" did you install on the tray?

I am assuming that you used 3/4 mdf and 2x4's for the construction of the tray based on the pic that you posted in the thread.

Oh yes, one other question (I can't promise I won't have more later though :) -

How did you fasten the GOM on the inside of the light tray when you wrapped it round the lip? Did you leave enough room for you to get the nose of the air-stapler in there somehow?

I am drawing my HT up in cad on the computer and am in the middle of trying to puzzle out the soffit/rope light tray at the moment - your approach is the best I have seen as far as construction technique goes and I am going to try and incorporate your design with some dimensional changes for my room.

Thanks for your help,

Lewis

Originally posted by LewisCobb

On your soffits -
- what are the dimensions of them - from the wall to the edge of the soffit where it turns up to form the tray and from the ceiling to the bottom horizontal surface of the soffit >>> 14" off of drywall

- how far out from the wall are your lights mounted (i.e. the center of the light out from the wall, going in a horizontal direction >>> 7"

- how far down from the ceiling is the inside horizontal surface of the light tray >>> 9" off ceiling

- How big a "lip" did you install on the tray? >>> over all 4 1/4" includes the 1" cavity on the bottom for linocoustic, 3/4" MDF (bottom of soffit) and 2 1/2" lip for light tray

I am assuming that you used 3/4 mdf and 2x4's for the construction of the tray based on the pic that you posted in the thread. >>> Yes

How did you fasten the GOM on the inside of the light tray when you wrapped it round the lip? >>> Staples

Did you leave enough room for you to get the nose of the air-stapler in there somehow? >>> Just enough!

When i get some time Friday I will do a little drawing of the sofit.

Greg - thanks ! These details will keep me busy for hours at the cad system I am sure. My dimensions have to change slightly based on some obstructions, but I am trying to maintain the same depth off the ceiling as you did so that I can get a similar "light wash" on the ceiling.

Will look for your sketch later this week or whenever you get to it. Thanks very much again.

Lewis

The finished measurement from the wall to the center of the down light is 6" as the fabric frames are 1" deep.

Greg

Lewis

Here is a link to a rough sketch of the soffit. Hope it helps. Would be nice to see a CAD drawing of this draft. The drawing does not show the GOM wall frames that bring the wall out another inch under the soffit.

The GOM is started on the underside of the soffit wiht a blind seam. Then is finoshed off on the inside of the lighting tray.

PDF image of soffit (http://www.stargateunofficial.com/images/pdf/soffit.pdf)

GPowers, these MDF strips for making the frames seem to have to much flexibilty in them if cut to long. Is this way you used wood for a backing on them? I like using MDF behind MDF since I am only using 1" of sound absorbing material. The two 1/2" MDF makes it a perfect fit. I am afraid if I use a wood backing the fiberglass will be loose behind it since one cant find 1/2" wood.

Ozzie

Greg:

I have printed out that .pdf sketch you did of the soffit and will slap it into the Cad system today. I think I can figure out how to crank a .pdf from the Autocad system and will attach it to a reply here for you to take a look at.

By the way - there's one dimension that seems to be missing now that I look at your sketch. How far off the wall is the vertical portion of the soffit that closes in the light box? It's shown as 9" down from the ceiling, but no dimension from the wall.

Oh - and one other question on the rope light. When you have the soffit lights turned on - how far from the vertical portion of the light soffit does the light tend to spill onto the ceiling ? I am guessing it's somewhere between 12-15 inches but wanted to check with you. I may have a portion of the central part of my ceiling with a "black" surface so that I can install a fiber optic star field some day - but I don't want to encroach onto the light spill of the soffit.

Anyway, if I am not pestered too much with "work" here today I should be able to get that cad sketch done....;)


Cheers,
Lewis

Originally posted by Oswald Pascual
GPowers, these MDF strips for making the frames seem to have to much flexibility in them if cut to long. Is this way you used wood for a backing on them?
Ozzie

I was also concerned about the strength of the MDF, but also wanted a smooth finish. Plywood has the strength but I could not get a smooth 45 degree bevel.

That is why i used the sandwich approach. The top layer of MDF for a smooth finish and the bottom layer of plywood for strength. I also kept the frame size small to avoid bowing and flexing problems when stretching the fabric.

Did not have any problems with the Linocoustic using the sandwich approach.

GPowers, is your panels then an even 2"? I would like to get mine an even 1", but some of my panels need to be a bit longer. If I use a wood backing it may end up being to thick, since no such thing is 1/2 smooth wood out here.

Ozzie

Originally posted by Oswald Pascual
GPowers, is your panels then an even 2"? I would like to get mine an even 1", but some of my panels need to be a bit longer. If I use a wood backing it may end up being to thick, since no such thing is 1/2 smooth wood out here.

Ozzie

The frames are a fraction under one inch thick.

Originally posted by LewisCobb

How far off the wall is the vertical portion of the soffit that closes in the light box?

Lewis

The light tray is only 3" deep from the outside edge

Originally posted by LewisCobb
Greg:

When you have the soffit lights turned on - how far from the vertical portion of the light soffit does the light tend to spill onto the ceiling ?

Lewis

Light spills on the ceiling out from the wall 5" bright and fading out at 11".

See photo below:


http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/pic/HTDoneWalls07.jpg

Greg:

I've attached a first crack at the cad drawing of the soffit. It's a bit off as far as line weight goes - I have been unable to figure out how to make the lines any thinner in the AutoCad/Acrobat .pdf generator but it still gets the idea across.

Have a look.

Lewis

PS - just realized I forgot to include the linocoustic between the mdf and the GOM.....

Thanks Lewis, your CAD drawing looks a lot cleaner then my hand drawing.

Greg:

Do you have any "lights on" shots of your screen wall? I'm trying to visualize the soffits as they wrap around to the front of the room. I have seen some pics on the forum where people stop them at the front wall, and some where they wrap them all around the room but I was wondering what you did in yours.

Thanks
Lewis

There is no sofit on the screen wall

Greg,

I think your theater looks awesome. Different from most seen on the forums. Nice job! :)

Yes, this theater is a beauty. :)
Definitely very unique with the panels, but looks like a lot of work as well.

Craig

Craig

The panels took about 80 hours to do. There are a total of 70 fabric covered frames. But i think the look was worth it.

I really like the look too. I have a customer who is going to do his room similarly. When I move into my (hopefully) last house in a few years, I'd seriously consider doing mine this way.

I love this too - and will do something similar when that time comes. I read the thread, but must have missed this; I see you attach the panels to the wall with liquid nails and brads in the corners. However, is this straight onto drywall?

Any idea of a way to do the frames in an easier fashion? I don't have any other equipment than a regular circular saw... (so routing etc is a bit outside my realm - mostly because I don't think I'm handy enough :)

Also, what was the size of the room you said? Just wondering with 1100 for the GOM.

Lastly, I see you got some acoustical material to fill, how much was the cost of this?

Thanks!

-Tom

Craig

The panels took about 80 hours to do. There are a total of 70 fabric covered frames. But i think the look was worth it.


Yes, I think it was worth the effort.
Pictures never do these dark HT rooms justice and your room looks absolutely fabulous!!

Craig

Wow!!! Lots of good ideas here. When I purchase my house and start designing the home theater room, I only hope to have it look as good.

Tom:

The brads were only two inches long, so by the time they go through the one inch frame, 5/8 drywall and 1/2 sound board thats it. The brads are only to hold the frame until the liquid nails drys. The liquid nails is the permanent bond and prevents vibration.

The method I used was the easy most efficient way I Could think of using the tools I had. I would not attempt this unless you have a table saw. Unless you are very good with a power hand tools. The hardest part of the frames is getting the four corners of the frames to meet correctly. So the frames need to be a constant size over and over and over. If not, your frame corners will to be offset and it will look like crap.

So however you do the frames the dimensions must be constant!

Greg, thanks so much for clarifying! I REALLY like the look of your room, so regardless of the approach, I hope it will look close to what you have.

Greg...I see that this thread has been resurrected! I wanted to thank you anyway for the great ideas I have gleaned from you over the last year in planning and designing my theater. I plan to use panels built exactly the same way but about 7' tall and 24-28" wide. Attached the same way, and spaced between columns. The details in your pictures are extremely helpful. I'll use SoundSuede material over frames of Lincoustic and/or poly batting. Figure I'll need close to 20 panels. I'll post pictures when I start them.

Bondsan (Bob)

Bondsan

How wide is the wood you are going to use to make these panels? I wanted to do larger panels myself, bit panels that long might warp as one staples the fabric on to. Specially around the center area. They would also be a bit on the heavy side, do you plan on using commercial velcro or some how nailing it to the walls?

Ozzie

I just made a 6 ft long frame to go on a door and I included an extra cross piece at the midpoint to keep it from bowing.

As a tribute to Mr Powers here is a pic of my recently completed theater with the same fabric panels.

Paul

Love the look.

Ozzie,

Still undecided on the size of the framing. I'll probably have to experiment. I may cut 2 x 4 material into one inch strips (actual dimension would by 1 1/2 " X 1") or maybe 1 x 3 material (I would need to cut something out of 1/4" to attach to the back so I have my exact one inch depth for the Lincoustic and batting). I definately will use two cross braces for stability.

Bondsan (Bob)

As a tribute to Mr Powers here is a pic of my recently completed theater with the same fabric panels.

Paul

Thanks Paul,

I like the red frames and no columns, it gives your theater a simple clean look. Can you post some more photos so we can see the rest of the theater.

Greg

Thanks Paul,

I like the red frames and no columns, it gives your theater a simple clean look. Can you post some more photos so we can see the rest of the theater.

Greg

More pics are in the process, camera troubles :(

Paul

To help in answering all the PMs and other question about the "Fabric Frames" I have gathered all the most commonly questions and created an FAQ at the following link:

Gregs Fabric Frames FAQ (http://www.stargateunofficial.com/HT_FAQ.asp)

Thanks Paul,

I like the red frames and no columns, it gives your theater a simple clean look. Can you post some more photos so we can see the rest of the theater.

Greg

Here is a pic of the side wall before I install the seating.

Paul

back wall and other side wall

Paul

O.K. Guys

I cut my 1/2" MDF in strips of 1 1/2 wide. Now I tried to screw them in together to make it 1" thick, but wood screws don't work well with MDF. I did a second frame with wood glue, and that seems to hold pretty good, but it takes a long time for the glue to really take hold.

I see GPowers used wood as a backing to MDF, maybe thats a way of getting the wood screw to grab better?

Also when the frame is finished and wrapped in GOM, Use a nail gun and shoot right thru the 1" frame, and thru the 1/2" drywall, and hopefully if I get lucky enough I might hit a stud? I would rather try avoiding the use of glue on the walls. So trying to think of a different way here.

Is there a different way of getting this frame on the wall?

Ozzie

Is there a different way of getting this frame on the wall?

Ozzie
Ozzie,

I am planning to use a French Cleat to attach my panels. I want the ability to remove them if needed to add/remove absorbtion easily. Here is a link to a PDF that explains how they are designed.

French Cleat (http://benchmark.20m.com/plans/FrenchCleat.pdf)

Steve

O.K. Guys
I did a second frame with wood glue, and that seems to hold pretty good, but it takes a long time for the glue to really take hold.

I see GPowers used wood as a backing to MDF, maybe thats a way of getting the wood screw to grab better?

Also when the frame is finished and wrapped in GOM, Use a nail gun and shoot right thru the 1" frame, and thru the 1/2" drywall, and hopefully if I get lucky enough I might hit a stud? I would rather try avoiding the use of glue on the walls. So trying to think of a different way here.

Is there a different way of getting this frame on the wall?

Ozzie

When glueing the frames together i used small brads. Always making sure to shoot the brads from front to back. The one inch brads just break the surface of the wood. So you do not want the part of the frame that will be covered with GOM to have these brads sticking through.

I used two inch brads to apply the frames to the wall. These were the longest I could find. The heads of Finishing nails were too big. So with a two inch brad you are never going to hit a stud. One inch frame, 5/8 inch drywall, 1/2 drywall is too thick at 2 1/8 inches thick. That is why i used liquid nails.

I also tried velcro but liked the liquid nails better.

Ozzie,

I am planning to use a French Cleat to attach my panels. I want the ability to remove them if needed to add/remove absorbtion easily. Here is a link to a PDF that explains how they are designed.

Steve

I also considered using French cleats. My issue was the possibility of rattles. With the frame only secure on the top edge the side and lower edges of the frame just hanging the frames would vibrate when the sub-woofer really starts to go causing a rattle.

What about these:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=260-367

Do you think they'd support those frames?

I guess you could use a French cleat to support the weight and then throw a couple of these on the bottom to hold it in place.

I was thinking of putting strips to hold the fiberglass in place on the walls then building just the MDF portion of the frames in the same fashion you did. That way I wouldn't have to cut the fiberglass or cut the plywood. I'd just tack up the retaining strips, fit the fiberglass and secure the panels over it.

How important is the 1" of batting over the fiberglass? Is it just filler or is it doing something?

You know a combination of using the french cleat and the Velcro and/or the HEAVY DUTY GRILL GUIDES (from parts express) might work. The velcro could be used on the bottom/side edges to prevent the frame from rattling.

This way the frames would be removable.

Paul

Thanks for posting the additional photos.

We need to start a photo gallery of just Fabric Frame Home theaters.

Can not wait to see photos with your chairs to finish it off. :)

When is your Grand Opening and what DVD will be the first one played?

I think we underestimate the power of Velcro. I'm really leaning towards this method myself.

Question Greg... had you thought of using perhaps moulding type strips, and cutting 45 degree angles, and perhaps gluing thin squares of wood in the corners, or the whole back? Essentially making a picture frame. All you really need to do is then find the right cross section look you like, then pull and attach the fabric over your 'frame'.

http://www.sogy-bois.com/images/moulures.jpg

Thoughts? too light perhaps?

From the few panels I have done those moldings are simply to weak. I had the same thought, till I actually picked one up, and saw it bend. When you stretch the fabric accross one of those beam, I think it will simply not work. Heck 1 1/2" MDF even bends a bit if its too long.

Ozzie

Hmm.. how about if you back them with thin maybe 1/2 inch plywood? I'm just thinking routing, or angle cutting 50-70 of these frames is going to be hell...

Hmm.. how about if you back them with thin maybe 1/2 inch plywood? I'm just thinking routing, or angle cutting 50-70 of these frames is going to be hell...

You are correct the routing took a long time. The look is worth the effort.

With some thought and experimentation we can most likely improve the build technique. Something like this would work. And you would not need to do all the beveled edge cutting:

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/images/prefab.jpg

If you are going to go through all the trouble to cut and glue the molding into the frames you might as well router the edges. Lets get one thing straight, these frames are not for people who want a quick and easy solution to this type of look. I tried several different options to GPowers method to achieve the same look but in the end realized that I would just have to put in the time and do it his way. Those of you who can't or don't have the time to do this procedure properly should think of another design option. It looks awesome but it is a hell of a lot of work plain and simple.

Paul

I agree with Paul!
Those wallmates might be an easy way out if thats what one wants, but it cost just a bit more. Same look less work, more money.
http://www.wallworks.com/gallery1/full/asweb0016.jpg

Ozzie

Here is a amature photo stich. Click on it to see a larger photo.

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/gallery/tnstichedphoto2.jpg (http://www.stargateunofficial.com/gallery/stichedphoto2.jpg)

Greg,

Great job on the room! Plan to do the same chiseled panels. It's nice to see the "whole room" as one shot -- looks huge. Great photo to show all the detailed work you did on the room.

The saw dust comes from cutting all the two inch strips of ply wood and MDF to make the frames. I use both plywood and MDF. The plywood is the bottom layer and MDF is the top layer. The Plywood helps with strength and the MDF makes a nice clean 45 degree angle.

More saw dust comes from using the router to create the 45 degree corners.

See the attached photo

I started using Velcro, but after the first two frames switched to liquid nails and a 2 inch brad in each of the corners. With the nail gun set correctly the brad disappear under the fabric. If it is still visible i dab the top of the brad with a black felt tip pen.

Hi Greg,

I am very intrigued by your frames and I may want to use this method. I have access to a complete woodworking shop that over the years I have made some fine furniture. I hope you can answer a few (7) questions.

If I were to build the frames I would use a biscuit joiner machine that cuts into the center of the side of on 1/2 “ frame and into the end of another section of the frame, this creating a grove for the biscuit to be placed and glued. Using a framing jig this would make a very strong frame. I also have at my disposal a 1/2” shank table mounted router to router the outside edge. I have enclosed a drawing, the red oval is the biscuit of which is made of wood. These biscuits would be installed in each corner of all frames.

Questions:

How did you join the four corners together?

Did you router the inside edges of the frames as well?

I understand why you used plywood for the strength, but did you not have voids in the plywood after using the router?

Linacoustic, is this the same product used to insulate the insides of ductwork?

Can I assume you cut the Linacoustic to fit within the frame and once the frame is mounted this is how the insulation is secured?

What is the Poly Batten used for?

Are the frames attached to a drywall wall or an insulated frame wall?

Sorry for the questions but you have invested many hours in a beautiful theater and you have firsthand knowledge of what you have done. I am in the process of remodeling our home and will be building a theater room.

http://pvreunion.com/Photos/Frame.png

Questions:

How did you join the four corners together? I used lap joints. I only had access to a table saw and a hand held router.

Did you router the inside edges of the frames as well? No just the outside edge and only if the frames butted up to one another. If the side of the frame butted up to a door frame, corner or column the frame edge was not routered.

I understand why you used plywood for the strength, but did you not have voids in the plywood after using the router? I used a sandwich approach. The bottom layer was plywood and the top layer was MDF. So the routered edge was always smooth because of the MDF.

Linacoustic, is this the same product used to insulate the insides of ductwork? Yes same stuff.

Can I assume you cut the Linacoustic to fit within the frame and once the frame is mounted this is how the insulation is secured? Just pressed into the frame. But not to tight that it causes a bulge.

What is the Poly Batten used for? Too fill the void for one. There several threads that discuss the acoustic propertys of the Linacoustic and poly batten. How and why you need to install them. So i took the advice and ran with it. I'm very happy with the sound quality of the theater.

Are the frames attached to a drywall wall or an insulated frame wall? LiquidNails to the drywall


See answers above by your questions. There is also a long FAQ at :

Fabric Frames FAQ (http://www.stargateunofficial.com/HT_FAQ.asp)

Hope the answers helped. Please post photos of the progress of your Fabric Frames.

I see the point of making frames where you may need something acoustically transparent, but why finish all the walls with them? Wood frames are very unforgiving and they don't make for good-looking seams between them. Besides, they tend to warp and are difficult to upholster. Is this really so much better than 1" acoustical panels? What goes underneath the fabric for absorption?

Is this really so much better than 1" acoustical panels? What goes underneath the fabric for absorption?

Yes! Because he made it. The same fiberglass as in the acoustical panels for a fraction of the cost. ;)

See answers above buy your questions. There is also a long FAQ at :

Fabric Frames FAQ (http://www.stargateunofficial.com/HT_FAQ.asp)

Hope the answers helped. Please post photos of the progress of your Fabric Frames.

Greg,

Thanks for the reply. You have a stunning theater... In one of your photos it appears the the floor is sloping downward towards the screen much like in a large theater. Acoustically its better that the ceiling and floor do not share the same plane, this is why large movie theaters can get away without carpeting the concrete flooring.

I am in the planning stages currently and thinking of pouring the floor at a slope towards the screen. The only drawback to this method is that the room can never be used for anything else. With having both sets of parents living but in their 80’s, I can see a day when one or more of the parents may be living among my wife and I. Luckily I have lots of space and building a guest home could be an option… Whats in red are the changes I will make to add the theater to my home.

http://pvreunion.com/Photos/Theater_Room2.PNG

Unfortunately the floor does not slop, whish it did.

Your plans look like you are building a theater you will enjoy. If you have the room build is a big as you can. Mine is 20 x 15 and i would have liked it 2 or 3 feet wider and longer. We did go with a nine foot ceiling, that is one thing we did right.

I see the point of making frames where you may need something acoustically transparent, but why finish all the walls with them? Wood frames are very unforgiving and they don't make for good-looking seams between them. Besides, they tend to warp and are difficult to upholster. Is this really so much better than 1" acoustical panels? What goes underneath the fabric for absorption?

We do not have a warping problem here in SoCal. Plus the seams between the frames are one of the highlights of the theater and look quite stunning.

The wood frames make is very ease to upholster. I think fabric frames are an easer technic then upholstering the whole wall and hiding the seams with moulding etc. The guys that do their theater that way have a much more difficult job.

I see the point of making frames where you may need something acoustically transparent, but why finish all the walls with them? Wood frames are very unforgiving and they don't make for good-looking seams between them. Besides, they tend to warp and are difficult to upholster. Is this really so much better than 1" acoustical panels? What goes underneath the fabric for absorption?


Greg,

Hope you don't have a problem of me for taking a stab at this. Once the frames are made and covered they can look great. As for the seams the two frames would come together as seen in the Photoshop image I made. With the frames made of MDF this is a very stable material to use as it is made of sawdust and glue. As you can see the butting of the frames forms a nice decorative feature. Remember the frame is not solid but 2 inch wide. From side to side to top to bottom of each frame Polly Batten and Linacoustic is used. Greg used Linacoustic in the first two rows of his theater while the remaining rows to the ceiling were insulated with Polly Batten. If I understand Greg correctly he used 1/2" MDF and 1/2" plywood to make the frame 1" thick so the insulation is flush to the frames once installed within the frame. The MDF is the layer facing the the cloth while the plywood is what the cloth is stapled to on the backside. By using this method the router can router the MDF to a smooth surface so that the cloth has a smooth edge to form around.

http://pvreunion.com/Photos/Frames_On_Wall.png

... but why finish all the walls with them? Wood frames are very unforgiving and they don't make for good-looking seams between them.

Below is a close-up of the fabric frames in a corner. It shows the detail of both kinds of seams.

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/pic/HTDoneWalls12.jpg

Just a comment on the construction of these frames. I plan to do the exact same thing as Greg did except with floor to ceiling panels (7' high and 20-24" wide). I'll have one cross member in the middle for rigidity but I'm also thinking seriously about using 1/4" luan plywood or Masonite material attached to the back for additional strength. I can get this stuff for about $10. or less a sheet. If I do this, and since this is a time intensive process, I can make all of the frames at the same time and not have to worry about any warpage later before I get a chance to upholster them--especially if I decide to cut down 2 X 8 material. From there it's an easy step to lay the Lincoustic and Poly Batting in an upholster to my hearts content. Liquid Nail to the wall just like a regular panel.

Bondsan (Bob)

As for the seams the two frames would come together as seen in the Photoshop image I made. With the frames made of MDF this is a very stable material to use as it is made of sawdust and glue.


ht-tp://pvreunion.com/Photos/Frames_On_Wall.png

Photoshop "panels" and wood panels are not the same. Yes Plywood and MDF are stable flat materials, but proper tools and how to use the tools are a big part of how successful you'l be with your panels / seams. If your panels aren't fairly square you'll have gaps when you butt them up against each other. Just my .02¢ :)

Photoshop "panels" and wood panels are not the same. Yes Plywood and MDF are stable flat materials, but proper tools and how to use the tools are a big part of how successful you'l be with your panels / seams. If your panels aren't fairly square you'll have gaps when you butt them up against each other. Just my .02¢ :)

If you had read further up this thread you would have read that I would use a frame jig where all panels would be the same size and square. The Photoshop image is just an example of how the finished project would look. Personally I am capable of making the frames as square as humanly possible. The key to beginning a project such as this is to jig every piece of would cut. By using a jig whether your cutting the sides or the tops and bottoms of the frame panels, each piece of wood has to be cut to the same length.



If I were to build the frames I would use a biscuit joiner machine that cuts into the center of the side of on 1/2 “ frame and into the end of another section of the frame, this creating a grove for the biscuit to be placed and glued. Using a framing jig this would make a very strong frame. I also have at my disposal a 1/2” shank table mounted router to router the outside edge. I have enclosed a drawing, the red oval is the biscuit of which is made of wood. These biscuits would be installed in each corner of all frames.

If your panels aren't fairly square you'll have gaps when you butt them up against each other. Just my .02¢ :)

That was my biggest fear in doing these Fabric Frames. Getting the Frames all the correct size and keeping them square. I was skeptical that my skill level would not be precise enough to keep all the frames on track.

That is why i kept the pattern very simple. Now that i have done this and successfully pulled off the installation. I would be more aggress next time with a more elaborate pattern.

One thing that helps hide small imperfections is painting the wall black behind the seams. When the wall is white behind the seams small gaps stand out like a sore thumb.

If you had read further up this thread you would have read that I would use a frame jig where all panels would be the same size and square. The Photoshop image is just an example of how the finished project would look. Personally I am capable of making the frames as square as humanly possible. The key to beginning a project such as this is to jig every piece of would cut. By using a jig whether your cutting the sides or the tops and bottoms of the frame panels, each piece of wood has to be cut to the same length.


Sorry. :o I was not trying to imply you were not capable of building the frames. I just meant that it is not an easy task for someone without the right tools and skills to make these and have them look like your p-shop graph.

I've been looking at the same style of wall/acoustic treatments for my room and
had found a year or more ago the designs of Cinematech Seating are just breathtaking. This is what I want my room to look like: Cinematech Seating (http://www.cinematechseating.com/images/portfolio/big/300d.jpg)

That was my biggest fear in doing these Fabric Frames. Getting the Frames all the correct size and keeping them square. I was skeptical that my skill level would not be precise enough to keep all the frames on track.

That is why i kept the pattern very simple. Now that i have done this and successfully pulled off the installation. I would be more aggress next time with a more elaborate pattern.

One thing that helps hide small imperfections is painting the wall black behind the seams. When the wall is white behind the seams small gaps stand out like a sore thumb.

Hi Greg,

I guess we all can second guess having a frame square, but the bottom-line, if the theater room is not plumb having frames that are square is useless. Installing frames such as you did and as many as you did, it all begins in the preparation of the theater room.

For those reading this thread and will be taking on a project of this magnitude, it would be a good idea to find the lowest point in the floor of the theater room. From this point it would be a good idea to grid the room much like a person who installs dropped ceilings or T-Grid ceilings. The first row of frames is the most important row. With today’s laser levels all four walls should be marked for levelness and a chalk line snapped. This line is the starting point for all frames.

Georgia-Pacific the maker of Medium Density Fiberboard (MDF) also sells this product in sizes up to 1.5 inches thick. By purchasing the 1” thick MDF the builder of frames could eliminate one step in building frames, but be prepared for a 4x8 sheet weighing over 100 pounds.

Your right no room has perfectly plum wall and square corners.

I started with the first row on top of the wall and worked down. That way I could adjust the bottom row to fit by trimming the bottom edge of the frame. Making the adjustment at floor level keeps these difference away from your line of sight. It also keep them at least five feet from your eyes, harder to see.

Greg (GPowers),

Thank you very much for this thread. After reading the thread, your FAQ, and seeing the pictures, I decided I will do GPower's Fabric Frames in my dedicated home theater (construction begins in February). I also appreciate your tending this thread for other Fabric Framer want-a-bes.

I have a woodworking shop on the same level as my home theater so the build will be very close to the install. I also feel my experience with picture framing and paneled doors will help. On that note:

Given that I will construct upper wall and lower wall acoustic frames, hang them with a cleat at top and velcro at the bottom, top of wall will have a built-out crown molding lower than the ceiling to allow for rope lighting, bottom of wall will have base board fastened to Dri-Core sub floor, special frame over in-wall speakers,
wall penetrations are 1) projection room window in rear wall, 2) seven in-wall speakers, 3) four sidewall sconce lights (may place these in columns),

Did you crafted each frame for a particular place on the wall?

Do you think it is possible to generically build frames and then just hang them in the next available space (given rooms are not square/plum)?

Or do you see a problem with gaps being visible?

I like what you did in the corners but notice it required frames without the bevel on the inside edge - meaning special corner frames vs. generic. Can you envision a corner treatment that would allow an inside beveled edge?

Attaching the baseboards to the Dri-Core sub floor allow for a pocket at the bottom of the wall for 'fitting'. How about the same cavity at the top of the wall under the crown molding? The fabric frames could then be 'stacked' bottom to top.

I am many months from wall treatments so have plenty of time to plan, plot, and consider your invaluable feedback (Greg, et al.).

Dave

Greg (GPowers),

Did you crafted each frame for a particular place on the wall?

answer: 80% of the frames are generic frames but not the bevels.

Do you think it is possible to generically build frames and then just hang them in the next available space (given rooms are not square/plum)?

answer: Like above most of the frames were generic. There were several places like the A/C return, door etc that required special frames. Even the back west corner has special frames.

Or do you see a problem with gaps being visible?

answer: You need to paint the wall behind the seams black for darker frames so if you do have a little gap here or there it is harder to see.

I like what you did in the corners but notice it required frames without the bevel on the inside edge - meaning special corner frames vs. generic. Can you envision a corner treatment that would allow an inside beveled edge?

answer: A non-beveled edge is very common throught the theater. Example; when a frame butts up against the soffit or a column, or door. So there all kinds of veration of your generic frames some have only one beveled edge, some have just he top and bottom, some have three side beveled. So the basic frame can be generic but a lot of frams are beveled for a unique spot on the wall.

Dave

Dave:

See comments above. Good luck with your project. Make sure you post lots of pictures. And keep the questions comming.

Today I'am redoing the front west corner. These were the first frames i made and they were not the greatest. Also had a rattel under the speaker when LEF hit in hard.

There have been several question about the frames and how the corners are joined and how the bevels are done. So this weekend when i was fixing some of the very first frames I made i took some additional photos of the corners. The photo shows the lap joint with the MDF and plywood and shows one beveled edge.

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/pic/HTFrames13.jpg

Greg,

During your construction of frames and selecting a rotor bit did you ever try a roundover bit? From your latest photo it appears you used a chamfer bit.


Thanks...

Greg,

From your latest photo it appears you used a chamfer bit.


Thanks...


I believe Greg explains this back in post #17 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=4888316&&#post4888316) . He began by making bevel cuts on the table saw and switched over to a router because of the cuts on multiple sides and how the chamfer bit created nicer corners..

Hi-

I had to post that your panels look great!

What kind of stapler did you use to attach the fabric onto the wood?

I'll be reading your FAQ later today.

Thanks!

Hi-

I had to post that your panels look great!

What kind of stapler did you use to attach the fabric onto the wood?

I'll be reading your FAQ later today.

Thanks!

Thanks for the kind comment. Regarding the stapler, I used an air power:

Craftsman 1/2 in. Crown 20 ga. (http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid=00918170000&subcat=Carpentry+Air+Tools)

Thanks for the kind comment. Regarding the stapler, I used an air power:

Craftsman 1/2 in. Crown 20 ga. (http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid=00918170000&subcat=Carpentry+Air+Tools)


Hello-

I was wondering if you have a electric stapler to compare it with the air? Do you believe that an electric stapler will work in this application?

I think that I may do some fabric frames in my theater as well as a black GOM covering on the false wall up-front with the screen.

Thanks,
T.Wells

PS Not to beat it to death but your theater looks awesome. A true inspiration.

Hello-

I was wondering if you have a electric stapler to compare it with the air? Do you believe that an electric stapler will work in this application?



From what i've read in past threads, a pneumatic stapler is the way to go. They seem to be more sturdy and durable.

From what i've read in past threads, a pneumatic stapler is the way to go. They seem to be more sturdy and durable.

Thanks, I will go that route.

I was wondering if you have a electric stapler to compare it with the air? Do you believe that an electric stapler will work in this application?




Sorry I do not have an electric stapler to compare too. I looked at and a shopped both electric and pneumatic staplers. I came very close to purchasing an electric model, But the electric model were too heavy and bulky.

I also purchased a 1/2 crown model vs the 1/4 crown model. I use the stapler to apply 10s of thousands of staples. I not only used the stapler for the fabric, i also used to the staple up the insulation, sound board and the radiant barrier in the attic. So it was a well used tool.

Sorry I do not have an electric stapler to compare too. I looked at and a shopped both electric and pneumatic staplers. I came very close to purchasing an electric model, But the electric model were too heavy and bulky.

I also purchased a 1/2 crown model vs the 1/4 crown model. I use the stapler to apply 10s of thousands of staples. I not only used the stapler for the fabric, i also used to the staple up the insulation, sound board and the radiant barrier in the attic. So it was a well used tool.

Thanks Greg. That is great. I wanted to buy a pneumatic tool but was worried that I would use it once for the fabric and not use it again. I was hoping to use it for my vapor barrier as well (plastic) but I am afraid that it will shoot right through the stuff. I will give it a shot but my main purpose is for fabric and maybe even some of those great looking fabric frames.

-T.Wells

I was hoping to use it for my vapor barrier as well (plastic) but I am afraid that it will shoot right through the stuff. -T.Wells

This is also a reason why i went with the 1/2 crown staple. You can always back off on the air pressure to avoid shooting through the plastic.


When you start the fabric frames make sure you post some of the photos here.
Good luck and have fun.

Well I went out to see if 1 inch MDF could be purchased. Although it’s available I would have to buy by the bunk and pay delivery charges. I have decided that I will laminate two 4 x 8 foot sheets of MDF and run the sheets through a pinch-roller, this bonding the two sheets together to form the 1 inch I need. Next I will rip the sheets down to strips.

I have decided I am going to use a Roundover router bit instead of the Chamfer bit to give a more rounded look much like in the Photoshop image I have posted below.

I should be able to get 22 – 2” strips that are 8 feet long from each laminated sheet of MDF. I will calculate the size of each frame once I have finished walls in place. I am going to follow Greg’s first two rows, but after the second row I am going to make my frames in a vertical format from the top of the second row to the ceiling. This will cover the walls more quickly, spend less time making the frames, and use less MDF. The first two rows fom the floor I will use Linacoustic insulation while the large frames will have Polly Batten installed.

This image is what the finish walls would look like from floor to ceiling with the sheetrock walls painted black with the exception of the cloth color.

http://pvreunion.com/Photos/Frames.png

DodgeViper,

I like the look. Please post pics of your construction.

BTW -- what is a pinch-roller. I've never seen one of those. Does it just sandwich them together tightly with glue in the middle?

Well I went out to see if 1 inch MDF could be purchased. Although it’s available I would have to buy by the bunk and pay delivery charges. I have decided that I will laminate two 4 x 8 foot sheets of MDF and run the sheets through a pinch-roller, this bonding the two sheets together to form the 1 inch I need. Next I will rip the sheets down to strips.






I like the layout you chose for the panels. The offset sizes gives the panel more depth and definition. On regards to the 1" MDF. You probably did already, but if not...Did you check the local cabinet maker supply or local hardwood supply ? They usually carry 1" MDF. Well at least here in my area (Dallas, TX) they do. Those 1" sheets are heavy as hell. :D

DodgeViper,

I like the look. Please post pics of your construction.

BTW -- what is a pinch-roller. I've never seen one of those. Does it just sandwich them together tightly with glue in the middle?

The pinch-roller is basically a press. Much like those rollers used at car washes that you would squeeze the water out of the towel. I will use a laminate glue to join the two MDF’s together. The key to laminating is to make sure that both sheets are perfectly lined up. Once the two sheets come in contact with each other they will not come apart.

I have yet to start construction as I am in the process of gather information for the entire theater. The speakers of choice are not currently available, but I am hoping they will reach the USA soon…

On regards to the 1" MDF. You probably did already, but if not...Did you check the local cabinet maker supply or local hardwood supply ? They usually carry 1" MDF. Well at least here in my area (Dallas, TX) they do. Those 1" sheets are heavy as hell. :D

Your right it that the hardwood and cabinet maker shops will have the 1" MDF, but the pricing may be inflated, but I will check it out.

In looking at Greg’s frames it appears that he cut the strips of MDF and Plywood separately, this creating more work for himself in making the frames. By using either 1” MDF or by laminating two sheets of MDF or laminating MDF to Plywood the builder of frames can eliminate one additional process of making the frames.

In looking at Greg’s frames it appears that he cut the strips of MDF and Plywood separately, this creating more work for himself in making the frames. By using either 1” MDF or by laminating two sheets of MDF or laminating MDF to Plywood the builder of frames can eliminate one additional process of making the frames.

Each material (Plywood & MDF) was selected for a reason. The Plywood was selected for strength both along the length of the rails, holding the staples and the lap joint corners. The MDF was selected for a smooth surface after the edges were routered.

Each material (Plywood & MDF) was selected for a reason. The Plywood was selected for strength both along the length of the rails, holding the staples and the lap joint corners. The MDF was selected for a smooth surface after the edges were routered.

Greg,

I understand your method of putting together the frames using the different materials and using a lap joint. What I should have stated above, if the builder of frames were to use 1" MDF or two sheets of MDF laminated together they would need to biscuit or dowel pin the joints together.

Your method is strong, but more time consuming due to using a total of 8 pieces to make one frame and using the lap joint method in regards to using a biscuit machine. Personally I believe frames made of all MDF will work fine. It’s not like the frames are barring any load on them. Securing cloth to MDF will work fine provided that a pneumatic stapler is used and the user has the ability to adjust air pressure so that the staple is seated correctly not tearing through the cloth material.

Many people may not have the tools I have suggested and the lap joint method is perfect. I am only stating a simpler approach to building frames provided they either own or have access to a biscuit machine, dowel jig, can laminate two sheets of whatever material they select, or able to purchase sheets of 1” MDF…

In using 1” MDF the user only needs to rip the sheet of MDF into the proper widths, cut each piece to length, biscuit the four corners, apply glue, square the frame, allow to dry, and router outside edge.

In using 1” MDF the user only needs to rip the sheet of MDF into the proper widths, cut each piece to length, biscuit the four corners, apply glue, square the frame, allow to dry, and router outside edge.
DodgeViper,

I considered the 1" approach until I read on some thread months ago that a guy tried this method. However, after making a few of them found that the 1" MDF had too much flex (when stretched with fabric). I do not know how he built them or if he had any type of support in the corners.

Myself, I'm going to play around with 1x2' on their edge (for a 1 1/2 depth ) for my 1" material. In the corners for added support, I was planning to put some short 2x2 and nail the thing together. I've also considered small triangles of 1/4 ply to reenforce if the above does not work. I'm not to that part in my project yet but will try a few ideas and possibly fall back on Greg's idea since it has been proven to work.

I'm with you on the the "4 pieces" vs. "8 pieces" model and the reduced work.

DodgeViper,

I considered the 1" approach until I read on some thread months ago that a guy tried this method. However, after making a few of them found that the 1" MDF had too much flex (when stretched with fabric). I do not know how he built them or if he had any type of support in the corners.

Myself, I'm going to play around with 1x2' on their edge (for a 1 1/2 depth ) for my 1" material. In the corners for added support, I was planning to put some short 2x2 and nail the thing together. I've also considered small triangles of 1/4 ply to reenforce if the above does not work. I'm not to that part in my project yet but will try a few ideas and possibly fall back on Greg's idea since it has been proven to work.

I'm with you on the the "4 pieces" vs. "8 pieces" model and the reduced work.

No doubt I will have to add a center cross member support in the taller frames. In regards to the triangles in the corners, you would not need to use 1/4" but 1/8" will ad plently of strength. I was going to make a frame and take pictures today but could not find the time, maybe next Sunday... Because of how I want to build my frames I will laminate 1/2 MDF and 1/2 cabinet grade plywood together and then rip the sheets on the tablesaw.

No doubt I will have to add a center cross member support in the taller frames. In regards to the triangles in the corners, you would not need to use 1/4" but 1/8" will ad plently of strength. I was going to make a frame and take pictures today but could not find the time, maybe next Sunday... Because of how I want to build my frames I will laminate 1/2 MDF and 1/2 cabinet grade plywood together and then rip the sheets on the tablesaw.
Please take pics of your frames. I will be making mine in the next 3-4 weeks and would love to see how your design turns out.

No doubt I will have to add a center cross member support in the taller frames. In regards to the triangles in the corners, you would not need to use 1/4" but 1/8" will ad plently of strength. I was going to make a frame and take pictures today but could not find the time, maybe next Sunday... Because of how I want to build my frames I will laminate 1/2 MDF and 1/2 cabinet grade plywood together and then rip the sheets on the tablesaw.
If your going to have to add center supports anyway, why not just use 1"X2" pine?
For that matter, to get your 1" depth for the insulation, just nail 1"X2" pine strips directly to the wall. and attach your 1"X2" fabric frames to the 1"x2" strips on the wall.
Just trying to cut down on the labor.

No doubt I will have to add a center cross member support in the taller frames. In regards to the triangles in the corners, you would not need to use 1/4" but 1/8" will ad plently of strength. I was going to make a frame and take pictures today but could not find the time, maybe next Sunday... Because of how I want to build my frames I will laminate 1/2 MDF and 1/2 cabinet grade plywood together and then rip the sheets on the tablesaw.
If your going to have to add center supports anyway, why not just use 1"X 2" pine?
For that matter, to get your 1" depth for the insulation, just nail 1"X 2" pine strips directly to the wall. and attach your 1"X 2" fabric frames to the 1"x2" strips on the wall.
Just trying to cut down on the labor.

Please take pics of your frames. I will be making mine in the next 3-4 weeks and would love to see how your design turns out.

I have decided to back off from building my theater with 10 foot ceiling due to the position of the screen/projector and how far I would have to mount the projector from the ceiling. I am thinking of going back to the original plan of 8 foot ceilings. The bottom two rows will have frames that measure 32" x 22". With the first two rows occupying 44” of wall height the larger frame will be 32” x 50” for a combine height of 94” leaving 2” at the top. Crown molding will be installed around the entire room to hide that 2” gap.

Why did I select 32” wide frames? With the 2 x 4 studs on 16” centers I wanted to make sure that each frame was backed up by a stud.

We did a nine foot ceiling and are very happy with it. It gives the room a much larger apperance.

I have a CRT projector and it is mounted about 6" off the ceiling.

Why did I select 32” wide frames? With the 2 x 4 studs on 16” centers I wanted to make sure that each frame was backed up by a stud.


Are you attaching the frames, with screws, to the studs? Are you double drywalling?

I was under the impression that once the room is double drywalled, you should try to minimize breaking the sound isolation (drywall). :confused: :confused:

Are you attaching the frames, with screws, to the studs? Are you double drywalling?

I was under the impression that once the room is double drywalled, you should try to minimize breaking the sound isolation (drywall). :confused: :confused:

I have yet to decide how each frame will attach to the wall, but at work I have a catalog with many fasteners. One thing I will not use is Velcro due to the expenses. The French cleat does not appear to be a good method either. If the frame was very heavy the cleat would work but not in this environment with lots of bass.

The French cleat does not appear to be a good method either. If the frame was very heavy the cleat would work but not in this environment with lots of bass.
Dogeviper,

I heard that if you put some thin cork in the cleat, it will handle any vibrations. Not done it myself to confirm, though.

Finally got around to finishing off the counter top over the A/C return.

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/pic/HTCounter01.jpg

I wanted to do a Granite slab. I though i could find someone that had a large enough pice of scrap that is would not cost an arm and a leg. Quotes for Granite ran $1,500 to $3,000. They all said the high price was because they had to buy an compleat slab for this small job. Priced corian too, it was $1,000 plus.

So I used Granite tile with hard wood trim. Cost all of $20. I had the Granite tile, it was left over from an office building remodel.

I wanted to grind over the outside edge but the grinding stone set, need to do the successive grinding ,was $250. I think the hardwood ,stained dark, looks just as nice. At least it is done. One more project off the list.

Had a few minutes today to build a frame and show what 15 minutes can do if you have a table saw, router, chop saw, and biscuit machine. Actually it took longer because I had to wait for the glue to dry, but if you exclude the drying time it took less than 15 minutes to rip the 2” wide strips, cut to length, cut the slots, glue & square the frame, and router the outside edge.

You can really save time if you rip all the MDF, cut to length, and have all the joints cut with the biscuit machine. Then it’s a matter of gluing up the frames.

Although this was done just as an example I only used ¾ inch MDF. The frame that was completed was strong.


Wood Shop

http://pvreunion.com/Photos/P1010140.jpg

The Four Sides That Make Up The Frame

http://pvreunion.com/Photos/P1010141.jpg

Dewalt Biscuit Machine

http://pvreunion.com/Photos/P1010142.jpg

Sides & Ends After Biscuit Machine Was Used

http://pvreunion.com/Photos/P1010143.jpg

Photo Showing The Biscuit Before Glue

http://pvreunion.com/Photos/P1010144.jpg

Frame Having Been Squared & Glued

http://pvreunion.com/Photos/P1010145.jpg

Porter Cable 1/4 Inch Shank Router With Roundover Bit

http://pvreunion.com/Photos/P1010146.jpg

Finished Corner. The Seam Is Hardly Visible

http://pvreunion.com/Photos/P1010147.jpg

Photo Looking Down The Side Of Frame

http://pvreunion.com/Photos/P1010150.jpg

Finished Frame

http://pvreunion.com/Photos/P1010148.jpg

This Photo Is Showing Stables Driven Using A Pneumatic Air Stapler Thats Flush With The MDF And A Staple Using A Manual Hand Staple Gun. Very Obvious That When Placing Fabric On The Frame A Pneumatic Air Stapler Will Need To Be Used.

http://pvreunion.com/Photos/P1010149.jpg

DodgeViper,

Well done! Thanks for the tutorial. Do you think 3/4" MDF will have enough strength to work as panels (I need min 1" but was just curious)? Looks like using the biscuit technique may be the trick to a strong frame.

Now the 65k question is.. how do you plan to hang these things on the wall? I was considering the french cleat myself but since I only need access to one wall of them, I may nail and glue the panels for the other (3) walls.

WOuld love your ideas on this :)

DodgeViper..Very nice job!! Do you have fabric you can stretch over the frames to see a "final" product. What's that saw ? A Unisaw ?





Do you think 3/4" MDF will have enough strength to work as panels (I need min 1" but was just curious)? Looks like using the biscuit technique may be the trick to a strong frame.



swithey....I think the stregnth of DodgeVipers panel comes from the laminating (just like plywood). The glue between the layers stiffens the materials, making them more stable and stronger than single 3/4" strips of MDF.

DodgeViper..Very nice job!! Do you have fabric you can stretch over the frames to see a "final" product. What's that saw ? A Unisaw ?

swithey....I think the stregnth of DodgeVipers panel comes from the laminating (just like plywood). The glue between the layers stiffens the materials, making them more stable and stronger than single 3/4" strips of MDF.

Well the frame is history. After the frame had setup for 20 hours I decided to see how much abuse it would take before the frame broke. Believe me the biscuits will hold up just fine in the theater application. The ¾” was used only for an example. The frame you see in the photo is ¾”. The reason you need the 1” MDF is for the 1” insulation. I will use either ¾” MDF with ¼” backer to make up the total of 1” thick or purchase 1” MDF.

The saw is a high dollar Delta…

DodgeViper,

Well done! Thanks for the tutorial. Do you think 3/4" MDF will have enough strength to work as panels (I need min 1" but was just curious)? Looks like using the biscuit technique may be the trick to a strong frame.

Now the 65k question is.. how do you plan to hang these things on the wall? I was considering the french cleat myself but since I only need access to one wall of them, I may nail and glue the panels for the other (3) walls.

WOuld love your ideas on this :)

Personally after giving it some thought the reverse cleat is practically the idle setup. During the construction of the frame the top rail and the bottom rail can be run through the table saw and have a 45 degree bevel cut along its entire length of the rails. Assemble the frames as in the tutorial above. Once the first rows of frames are installed the next row of frames will keep the first row from coming off, followed by the next row. The very top row will need some additional treatment to secure the frames from moving, maybe Velcro may be the answer for the top with the cleats.

A few pages back someone showed those plastic fasteners that are typically used in the speaker industry. Personally I think they would be more trouble than they are worth, this being mounted the socket section to the sheetrock and getting all four corners aligned correctly.

In using the reverse cleat you could make a jig to anchor all cleats in the correct position so that the frames seat correctly. I will make another frame this Sunday showing the frame with the cleats and mounted to drywall.

Greg, great job and write-up! I've been inspired. :) I don't plan on doing my entire room, but this thread will get me going treating first reflections.

And for those of you who have never purchased a 4x8 sheet of MDF, it's not 48"x96". It's 49" wide. :D

Are you planning on using a roundover bit to do the 1" thick frames?
The sample frame you did, doesn't look like a full 45 degree angle.

The PDF is full of great ideas and samples. Wish I had access to something like this before I did my project. It presents more options and variety.

I was looking through some of these and I was wondering what you guys think of the sound improvement that could be had from something like their island panels home brewed. I really want to do something like you did Greg, but it looks like it will be cost prohibitive for the first round of my theater.

Would these "picture frames" of GOM with Linacoustics inside be better than nothing?

Are you planning on using a roundover bit to do the 1" thick frames?
The sample frame you did, doesn't look like a full 45 degree angle.

The 3/8" roundover bit I used is not the one I will use to do my frames. I will need to use either a 5/8" or 3/4" roundover bit. I could not use either of these two bits as they would not fit the trim router I hand on hand. The larger router that these bits fit was setup for another job and I did not have acess to it without changing the current settings.

In regards to your question of the full 45 degree angle, I do want somewhat of a flat edge so that when two sections of the frames come in contact with each other it’s a tight fit.

Finally got around to finishing off the counter top over the A/C return.

I wanted to do a Granite slab. I though i could find someone that had a large enough pice of scrap that is would not cost an arm and a leg. Quotes for Granite ran $1,500 to $3,000. They all said the high price was because they had to buy an compleat slab for this small job. Priced corian too, it was $1,000 plus.

So I used Granite tile with hard wood trim. Cost all of $20. I had the Granite tile, it was left over from an office building remodel.

I wanted to grind over the outside edge but the grinding stone set, need to do the successive grinding ,was $250. I think the hardwood ,stained dark, looks just as nice. At least it is done. One more project off the list.

Wow, those granite dealers sound like a rip. I did a bar sink in 3 cm granite and total cost was $400. That included dilling for the faucet, mounting the undermount sink with clips and a bullnose edge. I was able to buy a piece from a left over slab. The size is a little larger than the table in your photo.

In using the reverse cleat you could make a jig to anchor all cleats in the correct position so that the frames seat correctly. I will make another frame this Sunday showing the frame with the cleats and mounted to drywall.
DodgeViper,

I am very interested in seeing your cleat construction this weekend and the jig you make to create the cleats. Thanks for the instructions in advance :)

Wow, those granite dealers sound like a rip. I did a bar sink in 3 cm granite and total cost was $400. That included dilling for the faucet, mounting the undermount sink with clips and a bullnose edge. I was able to buy a piece from a left over slab. The size is a little larger than the table in your photo.

Thats what i was trying to do. I thought, for a small job like this, a remnant would be the way to go. But baised on the quotes that I got no one wanted this job.

I think it is somthing in Southern California. Any kind of quote for home improvment is ski high.

Greg - What is the depth that the 2 pieces of velcro add to the frame? 1/4"? 1/8"? Less?

i/o/w: if the frame was mounted to the wall directly verses mounted to the wall with the velcro, how much further off the wall does the velcro mounting add?

[I'm considering building three frames like yours but to cover with speaker cloth and cover 3 built in speakers (not in-wall speakers, but speakers placed in recessed "boxes" with the fronts flush to the screen wall). I need to figure out the additional depth so that I'll know about mounting the firring strips, etc. for my screen wall fabric.]

Thanks

My panels will need to be 1.5" deep because I plan to build some diffusors in a few of them (which require this depth). That will force me to use (2) 3/4" pieces to achieve this depth.


Even keeping the fiberglass spaced off the wall will help the acoustics of the room. Whish I had supended the fiberglass off the wall by 1/2 or 3/4 of an inch.

You could use the cleat I have drawn for the bottom and use this method for the top and bottom rails of the frames as seen in this drawing. In fact it would be much easier to use this method. Back a few post you had wrote of your concerns of the cleat hanging down into the area of where the insulation would be and that is how I came up with the cutout section on the top rail. Then I began thinking of how the bottom rail could use the cleat and not be a problem in wrapping the cloth around the frame. This drawing appears to be the trick for the cleats for the top and bottom. All could be made on the table saw. Depending on what type of finish edge you put on the frames using a roundover bit or a chamfer bit your still going to need a router...

http://pvreunion.com/Photos/Cleat111.PNG

Sorry I made an error in the wording. I have corrected what I said. I would use the table saw to cut the cleats and the bottom rail only. The top rail cutout is done using the table saw and chop saw.

You could use the cleat I have drawn for the bottom and use this method for the top and bottom rails of the frame. In fact it would be much easier to use this method. Back a few post you had wrote of your concerns of the cleat hanging down into the area of where the insulation would be and that is how I came up with the cutout section on the top rail. Then I began thinking of how the bottom rail could use the cleat and not be a problem in wrapping the cloth around the frame.
I follow you. Well, now I have some things to think about. I'm contemplating just glueing the front and side wall panels directly to the wall (with brad support like Gary did) and hanging the rear ones with the method you described above (I need access to the rear wall because it is a false wall). Glueing would save a lot of time. The only issue would be if I ever needed to remove the panels from some reason. I cannot think of one right now except to change the fabric. Hopefully by that time I'll be selling the house :D

GARY --> You said you had to pull down a few the other day to remake them because of some rattling. Where they difficult to pull off, did it tear up the drywall pretty badly and how well did they stick back on the wall

Even keeping the fiberglass spaced off the wall will help the acoustics of the room. Whish I had supended the fiberglass off the wall by 1/2 or 3/4 of an inch.

Gary, now you have me thinking of how the insulation could be flush with the fabric/face frame and 1/2" or more from the sheetrock without the insulation moving. Obvious some type of breathable netting stretched across the mid-section of the frame would be needed. It would also require the frame to be 1.75” thick… Plastic screen netting used on windows would work.

I think I would make a frame of 3/4" then stretched the netting across the entire frame using staples to hold it taught, then building another 1" frame and sandwich the two frames together. This would keep the insulation off of the sheetrock 3/4 of an inch.

I think I would make a frame of 3/4" then stretched the netting across the entire frame using staples to hold it taught, then building another 1" frame and sandwich the two frames together. This would keep the insulation off of the sheetrock 3/4 of an inch.


Before I finished the back of the Fabric Frames that cover the equipment rack I used Green line pull string. The back of the frames were open and i needed something to hold in the fiberglass and Poly batten. So i used the stapler and the pull string on the back of the frame. I just zig zaged back and forth top to bottom about 6 or 7 times. The string held in the fiberglass with out any problems.

Greg

Your room looks great. Pictures like that keep me working on mine into the wee hours of the morning. Thanks for the great thread! :)

I'm just about to the point of treating my room, and I've been reading up on the Acoustic sticky thread in this forum. There seems to be lots of back and forth concerning any general treatment rules. As you have treated your front wall, side up to ear level, and batting above....how would you say it sounds? Does the room seem dead at all? I realize there are other factors to consider, but I'd just like to hear the opinion of someone that's done it and now happily uses it.

Thanks :)

Blake

Greg

Your room looks great. Pictures like that keep me working on mine into the wee hours of the morning. Thanks for the great thread! :)

I'm just about to the point of treating my room, and I've been reading up on the Acoustic sticky thread in this forum. There seems to be lots of back and forth concerning any general treatment rules. As you have treated your front wall, side up to ear level, and batting above....how would you say it sounds? Does the room seem dead at all? I realize there are other factors to consider, but I'd just like to hear the opinion of someone that's done it and now happily uses it.

Thanks :)

Blake

Thanks for the kind words regarding the theater.

I think the acoustics worked out great. You know the room is acoustical treated when you walk in. Everything sounds different. All our guest cannot believe how good movies sound.

A few weeks ago we had a friend (Someone must work in the film industry) bring over "Memoirs of a Geisha", we had a blast. Every one thought they were very special watching a first run movie in a Home Theater. And the sound was great to.

Just remember that I did all the things that my budget allowed. One option that I did not do was to spend the extra cash for a professional to design the acoustic. The budget was just not big enough. I think I got to about 80% to 85% of the goal. I could have spent 20 or 30K more and got 100% but i think this was a good compromise.

I follow you. Well, now I have some things to think about. I'm contemplating just glueing the front and side wall panels directly to the wall (with brad support like Gary did) and hanging the rear ones with the method you described above (I need access to the rear wall because it is a false wall). Glueing would save a lot of time. The only issue would be if I ever needed to remove the panels from some reason. I cannot think of one right now except to change the fabric. Hopefully by that time I'll be selling the house :D

GARY --> You said you had to pull down a few the other day to remake them because of some rattling. Where they difficult to pull off, did it tear up the drywall pretty badly and how well did they stick back on the wall

In this drawing you can see how the cleats would be hidden on the ends. Routering the entire outside edge is not a problem.

http://pvreunion.com/Photos/Cleat___Frame.png

DodgeViper,

Great pics -- works for me. That's probably the way I will go. I still have some things to do in the room before I get to panel construction, though.

Are you planning to embark soon on your panel construction?

Well, you guys have convinced me to go the panel route instead of the more traditional route of stretching over furring strips. The more I planned that route in my head, the more I don't like it.

What is going to make my effort different from this mentioned in this thread thus far is that I am leaving the upper half of my wall uncovered, just applying linacoustic panels up to ear level and the entire front wall. We'll see how it turns out.

My local HD has both 1/2" and 15/23" plywood. I think I'll use the 15/32" as it is $6/sheet cheaper.

DodgeViper

I like teh drawings and the concept, I think I missed something though...will the frames/cleats make noise or rattle with some heafty bass? If so how do you propose to fix that?

Thanks
Robert

DodgeViper

I like teh drawings and the concept, I think I missed something though...will the frames/cleats make noise or rattle with some heafty bass? If so how do you propose to fix that?

Thanks
Robert

With the fabric wrapping around the entire frame and once the frame slid into place, the frames are going to fit very snug against the sheetrock, in fact the frames will need to be pressed into the cleats due to the thickest the fabric coming in contact with the sheetrock.

Remember once the first row of frames are installed (the bottom row) the second row will secure the first row. The third row will secure the second row and so on until the installer reaches the top. The top row will need to be secured differently. You will still use the cleats but the top of the frame will need a wood runner put in place and secured through the sheetrock and into the wall studs the entire length of each frame, this securing the top row of frames from popping up. I had in vision the top row to finish out about 2" from the ceiling so that crown molding would cover over the frames and attached to the frames and ceiling.

Swithey mentioned using cork between the two cleats and this seems like a good idea. Cork can be purchased with a sticky back and very thin. Once the top wood runner is locked in place there will be no movement of the frame panels.

Seams like these cleats could be a lot of work. And the last frame in a column poses a problem unless you add molding to cover the required gap to get it over the cleat. So unless you are going to redo all your fabric in the next few years, why go through all this trouble?

Seams like these cleats could be a lot of work. And the last frame in a column poses a problem unless you add molding to cover the required gap to get it over the cleat. So unless you are going to redo all your fabric in the next few years, why go through all this trouble?

I plan to use crown molding along the top as the molding will be at a 45 degree angle this breaking up the 90 degree angle of the wall and ceiling, this improving the sound within the room. The cleats are rather easy to make on a table saw and are part of the finished frame. Plus the frames can be removed very easily if needed.

Everyone has an idea on mounting the frames and this is my approach on mounting the frames. I do not like the idea of nailing each frame to the wall. My plan is to use only 3 frames from floor to ceiling as per my drawings. The last frame or top frame can be mounted differently if molding is not going to be used and if the frames are going to continue to the ceiling. The cleat mounting system is very secure and rattle free...

Hi Greg,

congratulations on your beautiful HT room. It provided me the much needed inspiration and made me change my plans in the middle of the construction.

I have few questions about your recessed lighting in the soffit:

1) What size and type of bulb are you using for your recessed lights in the soffit


2) what trim did you use with those miniature housings?


3) what is the general distance between the lights on the back and side walls?

thanks in advance
sri

I recently asked Greg few questions and I am posting his responses here for the benefit of the others.

1) What size and type of bulb are you using for your recessed lights in the soffit ?

12v MR11 .

2) what trim did you use with those miniature housings?

There is no trim, it is all one pice with a rubber insert. .

3 ) You said 12v MR11 but is it a spot or flood with how many degrees angle and how many watts? You seem to be using a different bulb than the seagull recommended T3.

It is the correct bulb for the unit number 9426-12 (http://www.seagulllighting.com/Ambiance®-Lighting-9426-12.html)

Howerver this above reply seem to contradict with the information posted in post #56 in this thread

and here is the reply from Greg about the discrepency

when i purchased the fixture two years ago there was only one type of housing, it use the Mr11. Very expensive light bulb.

Now when i look at there site i see several fixtures. So I found the one that uses the MR11 and sent that part number to you. Do not know if they changes part numbers or what. But today per there web site the 9426-12 uses an MR11 the bulb that I have.

4) How many of these lights you have on each wall?

I have 5 along the side walls and 4 axxross the bacl wall.


5) what is the width of each wooden piece you have cut from the larger plywood and the MDF boards for building your fabric frames?

The strips were about 2" wide.

There is some confusion about the Sea Gull lighting fixtures that i used.

when i purchased the fixture two years ago there was only one type of housing, it use the Mr11. A very expensive light bulb.

Now when i look at Sea Gulls site I see several fixtures. So to clear things up I found the one that uses the MR11 and that was 9426-12. You might want to try one of the other fixtures as the bulbs would be less expensive.

Do not know if they changes part numbers or what. But today per there web site the 9426-12 uses an MR11 the bulb that I have.

Sorry for and confusion early posts of part number might have caused.

Recently I added this very cool component switch to my equipment rack. It is a Neothings Avalon 6x2 matrix switch. Only just started connecting it up to different sources. So the photos only shows two DVD players connected. The box switched Video and digital audio, fiber or coaxial.

You can control the box from front panel IR, IR jack on the back, USB or RS232. I connected my remote control PC up to the RS232 port and got some basic commands to function between MainLobby and the Avalon switch.

So now I can start to generate some more elaborate command sequences to switch between the intro DVD and the feature move DVD.

If only I hade more time…..

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/images/avalonfront.bmp

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/images/avalonback.bmp

That is definately a cool device, one of many I've been keeping an eye on. let us know how it works out.

What sort of control/automation system will you have to interface it with?

regards,

Billmac

Not to sidetrack the thread, but I have the same Neothings switch (6x2, integrator model) hooked up to a Control4 automation system. Works great, especially since C4 can control it via Serial with the model I have. I'd highly recommend it, although I would also say that if you think you have 6 inputs and 2 outputs, go for the 8x4 instead of the 6x2. :)