Rotel RB-985 100 Watts x 5. Not bad for $330 used! That would be a good amp for a bed room.

Of course benchmark has a better USB DAC (24bit 96kHz).
Ask DAVE ABOUT THE COMPARISON....

As for the Design 4, sure they sound better with better amps. Basically they are not very efficient speakers. Interestingly you can get good performance from separates cheaper because finding an integrated that pushes 200W+ is not as simple.

Another question for Dave...
The guys from Musical Fidelity have a "slide rule" type of card that shows a real nice "dynamic range" rule of thumb for what type of amplification you should have for speakers of various efficiancies at 10 feet in a typical room accounting for slight losses inoutput at impedance changes and speaker manufacturers overestimating sensitivity.

Any chance someone can show that here?

Of course benchmark has a better USB DAC (24bit 96kHz).


That didn't sound how it was intended. The USB DAC is a separate monster. The Musical Fidelity (like almost all current USB DACs) can only take a 16bit 48kHz input. The Benchmark is one of the very few that supports up to 24bit 96kHz from USB... "Better USB DAC" in this instance only meant that it could take signals that the MF cannot, and was not a statement on the actual quality. Of course that is not a comment on the rest of the DAC. Even in my office, USB is more of a "oh, nifty" than a must have. I can run SPDIF from my PC to any DAC just fine...

The guys from Musical Fidelity have a "slide rule" type of card that shows a real nice "dynamic range" rule of thumb for what type of amplification you should have for speakers of various efficiancies at 10 feet in a typical room accounting for slight losses inoutput at impedance changes and speaker manufacturers overestimating sensitivity.


The chart is on their website (http://www.musicalfidelity.com/hifi/index.html) , along with information on its background. Due to my listening in nearfield, actually at 1m, I could almost get away with 130W. 200W+ is just a bit of extra comfort zone. There are still more options for separates than quality integrated at 125W+.

Thanks David. 1) what do YOU think of the panny? 2) as an expert, do you think outboard spkr switchers materially degrade sound quality when ONLY ONE of the spkr sets are in use (not when signal is split among several sets)? Would love your opinions here...thanks again...Jeff
Hi Jeff,
I haven't heard the Panasonic, but have read some reviews on it and it sounds like it maybe similar to many of the lesser expensive digital amps...A little edgy on the top endw/ pretty good bass.. This is not all bad as we knew our speakers would be played on a lot of amps w/ this characteristic. This is why the top end is fairly laid back.
They will never sound as good and lush as they did on the Mac , but it shouldn't run you out of the room either. No substitution for big power supplies....

The outboard switcher will make some difference. Many sound really bad, while some you don't notice as much. I like the Rotel and the Adcom and I'm sure there's more like them out there utilizing good parts.
Hope this helps,
David

The guys from Musical Fidelity have a "slide rule" type of card that shows a real nice "dynamic range" rule of thumb for what type of amplification you should have for speakers of various efficiancies at 10 feet in a typical room accounting for slight losses inoutput at impedance changes and speaker manufacturers overestimating sensitivity.

Any chance someone can show that here?


Aha, the real "slide rule" webified! (http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/supercharger/diagnostics.html)

Time to move this thread back up. I've joined the ERA owner's club! D 5 sat's and LCR up front with 3's for the surrounds and an S 10 sub. All in rosewood. Power is a Yamaha 2600. Right out of the box, the default Yamaha settings are for small speakers and an 80 Hz crossover. To me this sounded pretty good. After I get the speakers position set I will experiment with the small versus large thing. Thankfully I have a good sub so I don't have to worry about what to do with my LFE. I do have a noob question: what does clipping sound like? At a volume setting of -15 I was getting spl readings in the high 80, low 90 dB range. I wanted to turn it up more but don't want to blow a speaker.

I have a Yamaha HTR-5790 but I run it through a 5 channel 100 watt Rotel amp. When I calibrate it with the Receivers test tones and a Radio Shack SPL I get 75 Db when I set the receiver volume to zero. However, when I am listening to Dolby Digital and DTS movies I typically see 90-95 DB when I set the receiver to -6 Db to about -11 Db. I have D4’s and that are comfortable in that range. Once I get to about 98-100 Db the D4’s start to fall apart in my setup. Remember that I run them as full range right now because my sub sucks. That will change next week(SVS PB10)!

I hadn’t seen anyone pair the D5’s with the D3’s. Do they blend well? I have D4’s with D3’s and they are seamless. Congrats on your purchase. I think these


I do have a noob question: what does clipping sound like? At a volume setting of -15 I was getting spl readings in the high 80, low 90 dB range. I wanted to turn it up more but don't want to blow a speaker.

We have a D4 Sat (x4) and D4 LCR (x1) with a Sub 10. D5 Sats (x4) and D5 LCR with the Sub 8.

We are still in the trial stage (about 5 hours of listening) but people are definately impressed with the ERA's. The D5's were connected briefly on a Yamaha RX-V861 but we are waiting on a more powerful Pre Pro setup to mate with it.

The build quality is fabulous. ( I talked in great detail with Jim about the construction and competing products build construction). He did a great job of explaining his products without criticizing competing products. Matter of fact he paid many compliments to those products. Thanks! Deceptively heavy would be a way we have been describing the ERA's. The subs are like little tanks and the D4's and D5's are surprisingly heavy for their size. Matter of fact they are heavier than the other bookshelfs we have of larger sizes. The 4 models that we received feel solid when doing a finger tap test. Solid in a "good way."


The finishes are top notch. I'm a sucker for the wood veneer's so we got the cherry and rosewood. Both are very nice. I could probably post some pictures if anyone is interested.

If you are on the bubble definately find a dealer and have a listen.

Pics Please!

The guys from Musical Fidelity have a "slide rule" type of card that shows a real nice "dynamic range" rule of thumb for what type of amplification you should have for speakers of various efficiancies at 10 feet in a typical room accounting for slight losses inoutput at impedance changes and speaker manufacturers overestimating sensitivity.


Hmmm, this seems to show that most of my recommended stereo systems including all of my personal ones kinda suck.

Hmmm, this seems to show that most of my recommended stereo systems including all of my personal ones kinda suck.

I think one thing we need to remember when looking at this little slide rule, is what peaks are. Sure, you should be able to hit 105-110dB peaks. I don't disagree there one bit. But those are peaks, and the wattage you are using to evaluate there is RMS... Chances are your amp can do peaks much higher.
If you are looking at amps, I would make sure that you can hit the listening level you want with RMS, meaning pretty much anything visible on the chart will be plenty. Then look at the actual current ratings on the amp. If you have a reasonably high current, chances are you can hit those peaks just fine. If you always make sure that your amp should be able to hit peaks within RMS ratings, you will be spending a lot more on amps than necessary.
All of this is making me wonder if I should be limiting my amp search to 200W+ for my current setup. Everything else is purchased, but I still haven't decided on an amp.

Squeezebox 3 -> X-DAC v8 -> <insert amp here> -> Design 4 / REL R-205

I had been looking at the MF A5 or Parasound Halo P3/A21 for 200W+, but the McIntosh 6300 or 6500, or something else completely different 100W+ (and cheaper) might be plenty. My head is just over 1m from the speakers, this is nearfield. Ugh, decisions.

Hmmm, this seems to show that most of my recommended stereo systems including all of my personal ones kinda suck.


.....And you're surprised?
Seriously though ;) I have to laugh and ask Dave about this as I am looking at either three D5s across the front and four D4s as surrounds, or just seven D4s and I'm curious what kind of power I'd need to get to what levels....and at what levels (even with gobs of power) they're going to distort anyway.

.....And you're surprised?
Seriously though ;) I have to laugh and ask Dave about this as I am looking at either three D5s across the front and four D4s as surrounds, or just seven D4s and I'm curious what kind of power I'd need to get to what levels....and at what levels (even with gobs of power) they're going to distort anyway.



Why don't you just read the specs???????????


http://www.signalpathint.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=32&Itemid=45


150 watts max recommended for the 4's with 84 dB speaker sensitivity.

200 watts max recommended for the 5's with 85 dB speaker sensitivity.

First you should ask yourself - how loud do you need to have the system play?

Listening distance from the speakers matters. You can't keep on adding power (AKA turning up the volume) forever with smaller consumer speakers.

Just thought I would add a budget receiver option for people looking at 2 channel setups. I am waiting for my integrated, so I have an HK 3480 driving my Design 4s right now. It sounds surprisingly good. I don't know how to compare their 120W stereo receiver to their multichannel HT receivers, I am guessing they don't have the same current available in their HT receivers, but this is a good stereo option on a budget (I think refurbs are still available for $200).

those towers look too sweet, but I cringe at the kind of amplification they're gonna need

I'm guessing the big ones will be better suited to the 5's

Well I finally did it. I just replaced my old Yamaha YST-215 with a used PB-10(I couldn’t afford brand new). I am matching the SVS sub up with D4 fronts and center and I have D3 surrounds. I would have bought the smaller ERA sub but I really needed a front firing front ported sub. Plus the ERA sub is quite a bit more than the SVS.

The install of the sub required taking the TV and top deck off but I got it in there. My wife laughed at me when she first saw the sub sitting next to the entertainment center! She said “There is no way that is going to fit in there! And if it doesn’t then it goes up on ebay!” There was less than 1/8 of an inch clearance between the top of the sub and the bottom of the top deck. How’s that for cutting it close?

I know this isn’t the ideal position but sometimes the WAF is the most important thing. Anyway I am loving my new sub. The difference between it and the Yamaha is astounding. I ran a frequency sweep with it in the entertainment center and it was within 3 DB all the way up to 80 Hz which is perfect for my needs. My Yamaha used to vary by more than 25 DB in that same sweep!

I don’t even notice the sub now. It just blends in with the other speakers and now everything sounds rock solid and crisp. Not over bloated and loud. My wife didn’t complain or ask to turn the night mode on even once tonight. That is a victory in my book! I guess my system is finally complete and I have been cured of upgrade-itis. Thanks SVS and thanks to everyone who helped me find the perfect sub! Pics below.

Just look at the difference between the Yamaha’s size and the SVS

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=83757

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=83758

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=83759

Hi everyone, I plan on getting some combination of Era speakers and would like some help in choosing which ones to go with.

First off, I plan on using D4s for my front L+R. For the center channel, I'm down to either a D4 satellite layed on its side or a D3 LCR, due to strict size constraints (13" max width). Are there any issues laying the D4 satellite on its side? If so, would the D3 LCR be suitable alternative?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can send my way.

Just thought I would add a budget receiver option for people looking at 2 channel setups. I am waiting for my integrated, so I have an HK 3480 driving my Design 4s right now. It sounds surprisingly good. I don't know how to compare their 120W stereo receiver to their multichannel HT receivers, I am guessing they don't have the same current available in their HT receivers, but this is a good stereo option on a budget (I think refurbs are still available for $200).

I'm considering getting the D4 presently i'm using the 3380 hk. My problem isthant I'm located outside the US so i cant demo these lovely little speakers. I'm wondering will I need a sub with them??? Presently I am using a pair more efficient Paradigm Mini's V5 (for lower extention, a bit lacking in clean tight bass I find them lacking for 'filling a room'). In general like the there sound but my wife seem to be a hidden bass fiend. lol Will i need a sub with the D4's, and more than likely I should consider some a better receiver or better yet an int amp to power them??? I listen mainly to music. Dave suggusted a minimum of 75wpc.

Hi everyone, I plan on getting some combination of Era speakers and would like some help in choosing which ones to go with.

First off, I plan on using D4s for my front L+R. For the center channel, I'm down to either a D4 satellite layed on its side or a D3 LCR, due to strict size constraints (13" max width). Are there any issues laying the D4 satellite on its side? If so, would the D3 LCR be suitable alternative?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can send my way.

I personally would not mix the D4 fronts with a D3 center channel. The D3's are decent speakers, I have them as surrounds. However, they are no match for the D4 in the LCR department. I would definitely say go with 3 D4's across the front. I don't see why the D4 sat could not be laid on its side. Physically it is very similar to the LCR it is just shorter. Imaging might and it might not be as good but I have not tried that so I am not sure.

I am thinking about upgrading to a 200 Watt amp for the front 3 design 4 speakers. If I could swap my 5 channel 100 Watt amp for the 3 channel 200 Watt amp would it be worth it? I have enough power to push my rear speakers with my receiver. I need to make a decision fast so any help would be good.

I am thinking about upgrading to a 200 Watt amp for the front 3 design 4 speakers. If I could swap my 5 channel 100 Watt amp for the 3 channel 200 Watt amp would it be worth it? I have enough power to push my rear speakers with my receiver. I need to make a decision fast so any help would be good.


I think it depends on how much you are pushing your system. If I remember correctly, your 100 Watt amp, is a good quality seperate amp, and not a receiver...correct? You have posted several times about WAF limitations as far as how loud you push your system. I feel that if you have a good quality amp, 100 Watts should be good enough and you won't notice a big difference in moving to the 200 Watt amp. If you find yourself pushing your system, you might see improvements going to the 200 Watt amp, but even then, the improvements won't be huge.

I am in the same boat, and I am going to be getting a separate amp for my D4s (currently using a pretty powerful receiver). I am leaning towards a better quality 100 Watt amp, vs a lesser quality 200 Watt amp. I also don't push my system to reference levels. I usually listen 20dB below calibrated reference level.

Just my two cents.

By the way, I just looked at the picture of your setup. Very nice.

Greg

I think it depends on how much you are pushing your system. If I remember correctly, your 100 Watt amp, is a good quality seperate amp, and not a receiver...correct? You have posted several times about WAF limitations as far as how loud you push your system. I feel that if you have a good quality amp, 100 Watts should be good enough and you won't notice a big difference in moving to the 200 Watt amp. If you find yourself pushing your system, you might see improvements going to the 200 Watt amp, but even then, the improvements won't be huge.

I am in the same boat, and I am going to be getting a separate amp for my D4s (currently using a pretty powerful receiver). I am leaning towards a better quality 100 Watt amp, vs a lesser quality 200 Watt amp. I also don't push my system to reference levels. I usually listen 20dB below calibrated reference level.

Just my two cents.

By the way, I just looked at the picture of your setup. Very nice.

Greg

Thanks, I am very happy with the way it turned out. Yes I do have WAF limitations so I rarely play it very loudly. However, when I do get the chance I crank it up to about -4 to -8 DB from Reference level. The -4 really taxes my system even with my new sub.

I am really looking to buy the 3 channel amp because it would be a great deal. I am just wondering whether it is more important to have the rear channels amp’d or to have the extra 100 Watts on the fronts. I guess it really is a slight difference either way.

In your case I would definitely go with the highest quality 100 Watt amp you can find. If you listen at -20 DB then you would probably never really use 200 Watts. What receiver are you using right now?

I currently have a HK DPR-2005 receiver, which was their higher end digital path receiver. It is at 120 Watts, and some have said that it is every bit of that, and some have said that the HK digital receivers put out nowhere near their specs.

I dunno for sure, but I can't help but have doubts.

In the past I used a 3 channel amp to power my Monitor Audio GR setup and powered the surrounds with my receiver. It worked out really well. I think since your surrounds are the D3's, that might be the best way for you to get a good bang for you buck. Even at really high levels, I never felt that I was pushing the surrounds that much.

A question for the D5 owners: I am interested in using 3 D5 LCR's in a horizontal config across my front soundstage. The literature states that this will work well, but the cabinet shape seems to indicate an issue. Would I have to build small wedges to make sure the speaker faces forward instead of up at an angle?

I am really looking to buy the 3 channel amp because it would be a great deal. I am just wondering whether it is more important to have the rear channels amp’d or to have the extra 100 Watts on the fronts. I guess it really is a slight difference either way.


Depends on the amp I suppose. I don't use anywhere near 120W at my normal listening levels, but when my Musical Fidelity A5 came in (2x250W), the upgrade from the HK3480 (2x120W) receiver was dramatic. The whole system changed character and I couldn't be happier. Well, maybe if David could design a speaker in the Design 5 form factor but 2x the budget I am guessing they would be worth the upgrade :)

For 2 channel music will i need a sub with the d4's???? Sound wise how would these speakers compare to something like the Paradigm mini's (v5) i already own???

For 2 channel music will i need a sub with the d4's???? Sound wise how would these speakers compare to something like the Paradigm mini's (v5) i already own???

Needing a sub will depend on:
a) the music you listen to (they only go so low, but considering their size bass response is impressive)

b) What you are driving them with.

When I first heard the D4s with the Musical Fidelity A5, I thought a sub was hooked up. I listened to some test tracks with good amounts of bass, and had these not been recordings that I know very well, I wouldn't have known what I was missing. If you have reasonable power in your amplification (current, not just wattage), and you don't listen to very bass heavy music, you might not miss one at all. The truth is, a good quality sub will be a welcome addition, but may not be necessary for you initially. Give them a listen and see what you think. You can always add one later when budget allows.

A question for the D5 owners: I am interested in using 3 D5 LCR's in a horizontal config across my front soundstage. The literature states that this will work well, but the cabinet shape seems to indicate an issue. Would I have to build small wedges to make sure the speaker faces forward instead of up at an angle?
They come with small rubber wedges that allow you to adjust the angle.

Needing a sub will depend on:
a) the music you listen to (they only go so low, but considering their size bass response is impressive)

b) What you are driving them with.

When I first heard the D4s with the Musical Fidelity A5, I thought a sub was hooked up. I listened to some test tracks with good amounts of bass, and had these not been recordings that I know very well, I wouldn't have known what I was missing. If you have reasonable power in your amplification (current, not just wattage), and you don't listen to very bass heavy music, you might not miss one at all. The truth is, a good quality sub will be a welcome addition, but may not be necessary for you initially. Give them a listen and see what you think. You can always add one later when budget allows.

Thats one of the disadvantages of living in the caribbean. I'll prob have to take a plane to hear some of those babies. I listen to lots of genre's classical jazz salsa zouk so some of it is bass heavy yup!!! You Speak of checking current as well you mean "high" current amps. How would I know. I'm looking at brands like arcam rotel Cambridge Audio Creek oh and Music Fidelity. These would be in that category I imagine??? Right. Some one also mentioned some association between dampening factor and bass??? Oh i'm using a hk3380 presently.

I did some more testing this morning to see exactly how I should setup my D4’s with respect to small or large and what crossover to use.

I tried every combination(D4’s small and large, crossover 40,60,80,90 hz, Bass out to sub, to D4’s, and to both). In the end I realized that setting the D4’s to small and sending the Bass to “only” the sub with an 80 Hz crossover was by far the best.

When I set the front speakers to large and sent the Bass to both the sub and the front speakers the sound became kind of muddy. When I run the D4’s as small I would describe gunshots and vocals as kind of airy. Some people might not like that but it sounded best to me. When running the speakers as large the sub was still receiving the lows but the D4’s were just running out of breath between 95-100 DB. Now my amp(Rotel RB-985) is far from the highest quality but it is not near the bottom either. Maybe with a music fidelity amp you might get better results running the speakers as large.

Anyway, bottom line is that with a decent sub I would recommend running the speakers as small and setting the crossover to 70-80 Hz. I also recommend using a sub for the D4’s with movies. For only music the D4’s and a good amp will do just fine.

Dave,

Someone suggested putting books all around and against my ERA D4’s that sit in a book shelf. I have not tried it yet but I was wondering if you thought this would be a good idea? Is this not a good idea for the ERA speakers because they are ported? Here are pictures of my speakers placement right now and the article that suggests this.

Look halfway down where it starts “Bookcases, which are wonderful diffusers and absorbers,”.

http://www.audiovideointeriors.com/interiorideas/0106toole/

I tried every combination(D4’s small and large, crossover 40,60,80,90 hz, Bass out to sub, to D4’s, and to both). In the end I realized that setting the D4’s to small and sending the Bass to “only” the sub with an 80 Hz crossover was by far the best.



I agree. Small with an 80 hz crossover for me as well for the D4s.

Quick question Have any of you guys compared era d4 with the Revel M12?? if so what was the setup you used???

Yes, except for bass output and output(volume) the Era's would be my choice.
ArcaM AVR350

I have kinda asked this question in different way before, but here it goes. I have a D4 setup, and am going to be adding an amp. Is 200W per channel overkill for these speakers. Would I be better served saving some money and getting a good quality 100-120W per channel amp?

No, 200WPC is not overkill if it is a good quality amp. I have heard the Design 4s on a 2x120W HK 3480 receiver, a 2x200WPC Rotel RB-991 amp, and a 2x250WPC Musical Fidelity A5 integrated. I happened to own the HK and Rotel, and purchased the A5 specifically for the Design 4s. The HK sounded good, the Rotel was great, and the A5 just awesome. I don't think the difference between the Rotel and the Musical Fidelity was a power issue, the Rotel never seemed short of power with these speakers. I think it comes down to a synergy due to the speakers being voiced on the same amp.
That said, I would chose a good quality 100W amp over a 200W receiver or lesser quality amp. Only go for the extra power if it has the current to back it up.

hey all.First post here.Here's where I'm at.I'm a on again/off again/on again audiophile turning it on again,and this thread (and website) have been very helpful.Really good,thoughtful stuff here.So,I've been looking closely at a personal short list of speakers-Gallo,Aerial,and Era-and a while back,I was sure I was going to go gallo reference 3.1 or AV,but stalled on the issues of air movement limitations and a possibly narrow vertical listening window with the cdt tweeter.Finally felt Aerial might just be the One,but there is the price issue there.I think I'd be most happy with a set of Aerial LR5's(3 across the front with 2 LR3's for rears,or just 5 LR5's,subs,...) but even the rare used one's are a major financial decision.So here I am,comfortable with the knowledge that when I can afford to spend 15 to 25 grand on a speaker system,I'll be home in sound nirvana.Unless of course the new Gallo 5LS reference tower is"all that",...but I digress. I've been very interested in ERA speakers for a while now,and even though I haven't heard them yet,I'm about to jump onboard anyway.I will probably,likely certainly make the 2 or 3 hour trip to hear them before deciding,but basically it's already a decision of which one's,not if.I want to ask for some thoughts before I make the drive so I have a better understanding at the cash-in-hand final moment.Specifically,the diiferences between the the monitors and their companion LRC configurations.The dynamic capabilities are likely improved with the LRC versions,I would think.More air moving with the extra mid-driver,and the specs indicate the LCR's are more efficiant than their counterparts.For me,given just that comparison,I'd go with the LCR's.My main puzzle is over the differences in radiation patterns between them.Does the mid-tweeter-mid configuration sound different than the tweeter on top version.Is the sound pattern more vertically challenged with a mid on top.Are there any other differences between the two designs.This applies to other speaker companies(Aerial LR5/LR3's among them)as well,but I'm basically down to this-D4's/D5's or D4LCR's/D5LCR's.Now if tweeter on top wins,I might just go with a pair of D4's or D5's now,and get the matching floorstanders and a center when the floorstanders are available.Otherwise it's 3 LCR's and 2 monitors for the rear.Any ideas on why I might want to choose one configuration over the other are much appreciated,and thanks for this great thread as well.

Ok guys would the D4's sound good paired with the Parasound Halo A23 with hk pre??? Just wondering

No, 200WPC is not overkill if it is a good quality amp. I have heard the Design 4s on a 2x120W HK 3480 receiver, a 2x200WPC Rotel RB-991 amp, and a 2x250WPC Musical Fidelity A5 integrated. I happened to own the HK and Rotel, and purchased the A5 specifically for the Design 4s. The HK sounded good, the Rotel was great, and the A5 just awesome. I don't think the difference between the Rotel and the Musical Fidelity was a power issue, the Rotel never seemed short of power with these speakers. I think it comes down to a synergy due to the speakers being voiced on the same amp.
That said, I would chose a good quality 100W amp over a 200W receiver or lesser quality amp. Only go for the extra power if it has the current to back it up.

I would definitely say go with a good external amp over a receiver also. Personally I think the Rotel RB-993 is the ideal amp for these speakers if cost is a major factor(Isn’t it always a major factor?). It is 200 watts per channel for three channels. It is a discontinued model but it typically sells for less than $500 used. If you paired that with a nice 100 watt Rotel for the rear speakers you would have a very nice system for less than $800 in amps. For 5 channels that is very good.

I know the music fidelity amps are much better than the Rotel amps but I just could not justify the price difference when I compared them. My humble system is sounding pretty decent now and I only run 100 watts of Rotel power to all of them.

I think a lot has to do with what you listen to with them and whether you have a decent sub or not. If you listen to music then you might be able to get away without a sub. For movies you really need a decent sub. Then you can cross them over at 80 Hz and then the amount of power is not as much of an issue.

Ok guys would the D4's sound good paired with the Parasound Halo A23 with hk pre??? Just wondering

The Parasound Halo A21 and A23 with a P3 were on my short list before I chose the A5. I don't think you will find better quality for the price.

I know the music fidelity amps are much better than the Rotel amps but I just could not justify the price difference when I compared them. My humble system is sounding pretty decent now and I only run 100 watts of Rotel power to all of them.

I run Rotel amps with my B&W Nautilus 804/HTM2 for home theater. I just replaced the RB-991 I had been running for 5 years with an RB-993 to balance the front sound stage. They are quality amps, and I don't see myself replacing them until I replace the speakers. Rotel and Parasound were my original short list for the Design 4s until I increased my budget for the A5.

The three, 5 channel amps I am debating (Used) are Parasound, Rotel and B&K. I will probably use my receiver as a prepro for now

I am looking to spend between $900 and $1300 total.

1) Parasound 2205A or the
2) Parasound 1205A, sell my receiver and pick up a pre-pro
2) B&K 7250
3) Rotel 1095
4) Rotel 1075 and sell my receiver and pair it with the 1066 processer.

Any thoughts. What am looking for the most is a smooth sound without harsh highs. Any thoughts on any of these or others to get what I am after?

[I want to ask for some thoughts before I make the drive so I have a better understanding at the cash-in-hand final moment.Specifically,the diiferences between the the monitors and their companion LRC configurations.The dynamic capabilities are likely improved with the LRC versions,I would think.More air moving with the extra mid-driver,and the specs indicate the LCR's are more efficiant than their counterparts.For me,given just that comparison,I'd go with the LCR's.My main puzzle is over the differences in radiation patterns between them.Does the mid-tweeter-mid configuration sound different than the tweeter on top version.Is the sound pattern more vertically challenged with a mid on top.Are there any other differences between the two designs.This applies to other speaker companies(Aerial LR5/LR3's among them)as well,but I'm basically down to this-D4's/D5's or D4LCR's/D5LCR's.Now if tweeter on top wins,I might just go with a pair of D4's or D5's now,and get the matching floorstanders and a center when the floorstanders are available.Otherwise it's 3 LCR's and 2 monitors for the rear.Any ideas on why I might want to choose one configuration over the other are much appreciated,and thanks for this great thread as well.[/QUOTE]
David from ERA maybe?

Just wondering if David is still around? How are those towers coming? I am getting the upgrade itch! Also I still can not use the dealer locator on the website. The URL it points to says undefined.

I still have not purchased my amp for the D4s yet, but I have a question. I really like a lush, laid back sound much more than something that is tipped up on the high end. I think that is why I like my D4s so much. Dave has mentioned a few times in this thread that the Era speakers were designed a little soft in the high end, so they can be paired with typically bright consumer electronics.

With those design goals in mind, would it be ok to seek out a more laid back amp, or would the combination be too soft on the high end of the frequency range?

Thanks
Greg

Get a receiver that will allow you to do EQ for the high end. Then it does not matter what the amp is.

The only kind of EQing I like to use is for bass with respect to room correction. I've heard the Era's with Rotel, B&K, Mac, Arcam, and others, and I've never felt they were too laid back.

The only kind of EQing I like to use is for bass with respect to room correction. I've heard the Era's with Rotel, B&K, Mac, Arcam, and others, and I've never felt they were too laid back.

Thanks,

I agree on the EQing. I have an SMS-1 for my sub, but really don't want to EQ the rest of my system.

Thanks for the insight on the amp choices.

I am still debating between Rotel, B&K and Parasound.

I am still debating between Rotel, B&K and Parasound.

While I don't think you can go wrong with any of these, I haven't heard the eras on B&K yet. They do beautifully with Rotel and Parasound.

I have an SMS-1 for my sub, but really don't want to EQ the rest of my system
Me too! My inclination, after a lot of experiance with differant systems , both built-in and stand-alone, is to not use these correction for higher frequencies as I'm not sure the computational power has been enough to tame the problems without introducing other ones. This is not to say that I haven't heard these systems have a positive effect from time to time, subjectively, and it's not to say that I haven't seen the objective improvements in FR many times, but rather that on balance I usually find them to subjectively impart characteristics that I don't like . And while even in some rooms that were SOOO horrible before the EQing, and they made definate improvements, often the final sound wound up sounding a bit queer...of course those are the rooms where passive room treatments should DEFINATELY be imployed. I have had better results with Rives, especially in conjunction with passive treatments, and I do believe that most of these systems seem to be improving of late and I suspect that will continue. But for now, the SMS-1 seems to take care of two or three objectionable problems that would be more difficult to solve passively.

I auditioned the eras today. The D5s, D4s and the D3s. These are a MUST audition. Everything that has been said about these speakers is true.
To me the D4 had the best sound.
For anyone looking for a compact speaker that does not sacrifice quality at the expense of size should check these out.
I was so impressed that I maybe joining the club very soon. I think my search for a new home theater speaker system is over. The Paradigms Studios were at the top of my list but these little guys just blew them away. When it comes to price vs performance, there is just no contest.

is it just me, or does anyone else see a big visual resemblance to the Dana line?

Just wondering fihasah which studio speaker you were comparing them to 20's??? What kinda setup were you listening to with each speaker just wondering?? Did you audition them at home.

Just wondering something guys. How does the era d4 compare to these to speakers the Lsi7 and the Nht classic 3

Just wondering something guys. How does the era d4 compare to these to speakers the Lsi7 and the Nht classic 3
VERY WELL, JUST LIGHTER IN BASS, THE D5's WOULD BE A BETTER COMPARISON IF BASS IS IMPORTANT.

I'm dying to hear the D5. I heard the D4 briefly and I was very impressed.

I will be comparing the D5 and Ascend Sierra fairly soon--not to troll here, I'm just very curious. The D4 was so good that I think this would be a great comparison.

Just wondering fihasah which studio speaker you were comparing them to 20's??? What kinda setup were you listening to with each speaker just wondering?? Did you audition them at home.

I auditioned them at a store here in Chicago (Saturday Audio Exchange).
NAD M5 CD player with a NAD M3 integrated Amp.

Yes I was comparing them to the Studio 20s which I had auditioned a couple of days before.
The room was about 15 x 12.

Just wondering something guys. How does the era d4 compare to these to speakers the Lsi7 and the Nht classic 3

I auditioned the D4 and Classic 3 with Krell electronics and without a subwoofer. The Classic 3s seemed a bit more musical and definitely had better bass extension. The 3s also threw a slightly larger soundstage. However, the D4s seemed easier to listen to, perhaps a bit more laid back, and seemed to be more clear to my ears in the midrange.

However, I didn't really enjoy listening to either of them. My dealer's listening room was poor. By comparison, I had also heard MA RS6s running through a B&K receiver that day (at another dealer with a better room) and they were far more enjoyable to listen to, if not as accurate. I also think the lack of a subwoofer may have made the music feel emotionless.

It could also be that I used very boring recordings, so I'll have to audition them all again for final conclusions.

Fihsak,
Can you ellaborate on why you preferred the D4s to the D5s, and also why you preferred the Eras to the Studio 20s?

I'm dying to hear the D5. I heard the D4 briefly and I was very impressed.

I will be comparing the D5 and Ascend Sierra fairly soon--not to troll here, I'm just very curious. The D4 was so good that I think this would be a great comparison.
Well that should be quite intresting to hear your results

I auditioned them at a store here in Chicago (Saturday Audio Exchange).
NAD M5 CD player with a NAD M3 integrated Amp.

Yes I was comparing them to the Studio 20s which I had auditioned a couple of days before.
The room was about 15 x 12.
Well Andy at Sat. Audio is the man!!!! Good prices and good service bought a nad cdplayer and AQ cable from him. Very professional guy. Darn I wish i lived in the states! The nad M3 is pretty solid int amp power wise. I keep hearing that you should lots of good clean power with the era's (nht3's as well) due to their lack of efficiency.

VERY WELL, JUST LIGHTER IN BASS, THE D5's WOULD BE A BETTER COMPARISON IF BASS IS IMPORTANT.

The reason i'm comparing the two that is theClassic 3 and D4 is that I can get them both for around the same price $600. Since i'm looking for 2 pairs of speakers 1pair sub 1k an another sub 2k(i'm pretty much set on the Revel M22 though) I do like the looks of the Classic 3's but my main concern is well its sound i keep hearing about the muddy mids, not sure if it will fill larger rooms and as with most bookshelves the lower end. The D4 looks lovely, but hear again i'm wondering even with what i'm being told about the exceptional sound quality on these speakers. Will they fill a mid-larger room??? If i was too step up to the D5 which is like $900 I can seriously consider the Lsi9 which for its price i know will fill the room, plus give some nice bass.

Here is just another query about electronics guys i'm using a hk3380 presently Will the Music Hall (mavern) pair nicely with Era??? I'm looking for a stereo receiver. Has anyone heard MH with Era??? Would love to try the rotel rx1052.

I have auditioned the Classic 3, Lsi9, Era D4 and 5, as well as many others. Unfortunately I did not get the chance to A/B most of them. Taking that into consideration, I much preferred the D5. I own them now and am just looking for an amp to match them up with.

Hey guys,

I have started my amp search again to drive my D5's. I am looking at a few options and was hoping to get some help. I have a few on my list and am trying to stay in a pretty low price range.
Rotel 1080
Rotel 1070
NAD 272
PS Audio A100
The NAD and Rotel 1070 are on the lower price range and I can get the Rotel 1080 and PS Audio used under 1k. Any thoughts on what might be a good fit. I am using a Marantz receiver right now, and it definately needs some help. I am just not sure how much power I would need.
Thanks

I have heard the Rotel RB-991 with the Design 4s and was very pleased with the combination. This is the predecessor to the RB-1080. The 1080 is 1K new and frequently available used for about the same price as the RB-1070.
In this price range you might also take a good look at Parasound Halo A23.
Not knowing too much about your room size, I would say the 1080 is probably the safest choice as it has plenty of power and sounds good with era. I generally prefer the Parasound Halo line over Rotel at similar power levels, but they are a bit more expensive.

I have auditioned the Classic 3, Lsi9, Era D4 and 5, as well as many others. Unfortunately I did not get the chance to A/B most of them. Taking that into consideration, I much preferred the D5. I own them now and am just looking for an amp to match them up with.

Would like to elaborate??? What amp/pre or intamp were you using??? What characteristics did you like and dislike about the d5 as well as the others.

I have heard the Rotel RB-991 with the Design 4s and was very pleased with the combination. This is the predecessor to the RB-1080. The 1080 is 1K new and frequently available used for about the same price as the RB-1070.
In this price range you might also take a good look at Parasound Halo A23.
Not knowing too much about your room size, I would say the 1080 is probably the safest choice as it has plenty of power and sounds good with era. I generally prefer the Parasound Halo line over Rotel at similar power levels, but they are a bit more expensive.

I have a pretty small room. I saw a few used Parasound Halo A23's on audiogon, right around the price of used Rotel 1070's.

I have a pretty small room. I saw a few used Parasound Halo A23's on audiogon, right around the price of used Rotel 1070's.

I have a Halo A52 which is the five channel version of the A23. I love the amp and think it would be excellent with the Era's. I demoed the Era D5s and think they are an excellent speaker for their price and size.

Bill

I have a Halo A52 which is the five channel version of the A23. I love the amp and think it would be excellent with the Era's. I demoed the Era D5s and think they are an excellent speaker for their price and size.

Bill
Thanks Bill. So you think the 125w of the Halo A23 would be enough to drive the D5's? I have read some posts with people saying they need at least 200w.

Thanks Bill. So you think the 125w of the Halo A23 would be enough to drive the D5's? I have read some posts with people saying they need at least 200w.

Chris,

I think it depends on the size of your room. I have seen some posts mention they have used 200 watt amps. But I think it depends on the amp (current produced) but to say "at least" 200 watts would be incorrect.

I think you should e-mail or call Era and see what they think of power requirements for the D5s. Unless your room is a large room I think the A23 would be fine. I have Dynaudio Focus 140s which are a 4 ohm speaker and require a good amp to get the most out of them. The A52 has more than enough power in my room (13'x17').

I listen to music when I can (nobody home :D ) at very loud volumes and the A52 has power to spare. There are many good amps out there and I do not want to push the Parasound. But at around $500.00 for the A23 on a-gon (where I bought my A52) it is worth a try. I am very far from a amp expert but I am very happy with the A52.

Bill

Thanks Bill. So you think the 125w of the Halo A23 would be enough to drive the D5's? I have read some posts with people saying they need at least 200w.
At least 200W is a bit of a stretch, and I would take 125W of good clean power over 200W of lesser quality receiver any day. Most of the posts on this thread saying that 100-130W was not optimal power were referring to receivers which do not have anywhere near the current capability of Parasound or Rotel. Now given a choice between two basically equal amps with the power difference, say Rotel 1070 vs. 1080, I would choose the extra power.
I am one of those who is running D4s with over 200W, but my choice for the integrated was based on the fact that a) The era speakers were voiced on the Musical Fidelity A5 and b) Amps last a long time, I wanted to make sure the integrated I chose would be happy with whatever I choose to drive in the future. The combination is magical and I don't know that you can find a better match for the speakers, but it is far from necessary to get great sound from them. Considering I am near field in a small room, I will likely never really use 250W. I would likely damage my hearing, and possibly the speakers before I run out of power.

At least 200W is a bit of a stretch, and I would take 125W of good clean power over 200W of lesser quality receiver any day. Most of the posts on this thread saying that 100-130W was not optimal power were referring to receivers which do not have anywhere near the current capability of Parasound or Rotel.
I don't think enough people realize the capacitance and current output differances that there are between Straight amps and many receivers.

I personally run my D4’s with only a 100 watt Rotel amp. I am able to hold about 95-100db in my living room which is open to the downstairs without any problems. I think that 200 watts would be ideal but 100 watts works better for my budget right now.

I tested the 130 watt 1070 with the ERA D4’s and I honestly couldn’t tell the difference between my 100 watts Rotel amp. If money is a concern(Isn’t it always?) and you are considering a used amp then I would look at the Rotel RB-985 for 5 channels or an RB-990/RB-991 for two channels. If you want one of their newer models and you are willing to spend more now to avoid upgrading later then I personally would go with a 1080 for 2 channels or a 1095 for 5. Those are some great used amps.

Have you considered the Emotiva LPA-1? I haven’t heard it but at $500 for 125 watts for 5 channels. It looks like a crazy good deal.
http://www.emotiva.com/lpa1.html

The IPS-1 looks good too. It is $1200 though.
http://www.emotiva.com/ips1.html

Fihsak,
Can you ellaborate on why you preferred the D4s to the D5s, and also why you preferred the Eras to the Studio 20s?

Absolutely.
For me, it was a combination of factors. In the end, size and price were the biggest.
In terms of performance both speakers are very close. The Studio 20s have better midrange and clarity. The Era D4 was slightly recessed when it came to the midrange but the bass was more punchy and pronounced. The differences were very subtle. It could also be that it was a perceived difference since I heard the studios a couple of days before I heard the Eras.

Please let me know if you need more detail.

I've had my Design 5's since Feb. I knew they were special as soon as I heard them, but I had trouble finding any info or a third party recommendation at the time. I bought them anyway simply because I liked them so much. I caught this thread at page one or two, but didn't realize till now it was still going.

I'm using Design 5 satellites and LCR, a Rotel RMB-1075 and Denon AVR2307 as pre/pro with both an Hsu STF-3 and SVS PB12-Plus. My surrounds are/were Monitor Audio Bronze BFX. I'm currently not using surrounds because of the room layout and I don't really know what I want to do about them.

I'm leaning heavily towards era surrounds, for obvious reasons, but haven't decided which way to go yet. I think the Design 4 would be wasted as surrounds and I would probably end up using them as a separate two channel system if I ever brought them home. In many ways, I like the 4 more than the 5.

So I'm leaning towards the Design 3 or the Design 3 LCR as surrounds, which leads me to my biggest gripe. The Design 4 includes brackets, but the Design 3 doesn't. Why? It makes no sense. The Design 3 is far more likely to be wall mounted as surrounds than the Design 4. To compound this, my dealer doesn't know which bracket to recommend. Until I got 15 pages into this thread, I had no idea how I would mount these suckers, which is part of the reason why I had the Monitors in the first place. Simple solutions. Does the Design 3 LCR come with a bracket? I don't know and there's no way to find out on the website.

I want to walk into my dealer and get a wall mounted surround that includes the bracket. Simple, yes? No! This is being marketed as a lifestyle product, but my lifestyle doesn't generally include scouring the internet for some specific, yet unidentified piece of bent metal to hang a speaker. For $4-500, the piece of bent metal should be included, IMO, or at least available at the same dealer.

It's not all doom and gloom. I love my Design 5's and if one were to look, they would find I'm one of era's biggest fanboys. I pound the holy heck out of these things on a regular basis with my two corner pounders filling in the bottom end quite nicely. The D5 just keep coming back for more and sound fantastic all the while. If they can punch out Metallica, Ozzy, GNR, etc all day long and still sound great when I put on some Mozart to go to sleep, that's one heck of a speaker.

The design 3's do not come with any wall mounting brackets. I tried to get my dealer to throw them in because another dealer advertised it. They wouldn't budge. I went to radio shack and bought some $20 omni mounts. They are perfect. Have a look.

The design 3's do not come with any wall mounting brackets. I tried to get my dealer to throw them in because another dealer advertised it. They wouldn't budge. I went to radio shack and bought some $20 omni mounts. They are perfect. Have a look.
There's a couple of thing prejudicing me against the D3. One, I'm not really impressed with them, sound wise. They are not in the same league as the D4/D5. I've heard them several times, but can't warm up to them. Two, I have to fit the surrounds between the top of a door and a low ceiling, so the horizontal layout of the LCR fits better.

I'm leaning towards using 2 D3 LCR as surrounds. My dealer is kind of an audiophile place, so doesn't stock the LCR. I'd have to take it on faith that it would perform better than the D3 satellite, then work out the mounting issues after I have them in hand, since there's no photo gallery to show me the number or location of the mounting sockets.

I realize I'm being a little difficult here, but I am the point where I'm just tired of dickin' around and making everything a custom solution. I'm the perfect target market for a "lifestyle" product because I work seven days a week on midnights, I don't have weekends for projects, I'm tired most of the time and I don't want to spend what little time I have fartin' around. An oversight by the dealer/manufacturer like the lack of inclusion of the proper bracket irritates me. Maybe I just need a good 72 hour nap.

I have to fit the surrounds between the top of a door and a low ceiling,
Buy the regular Design 4's, get the Omnimount 20.0's use the thread on the back and turn the D4 two way speakers 90 degrees to fit.

Buy the regular Design 4's, get the Omnimount 20.0's use the thread on the back and turn the D4 two way speakers 90 degrees to fit.
I have considered that, including rotating the tweeter in the cabinet 90 degrees to maintain the horizontal dispersion of high frequencies once the cabinet is turned sideways. Bonus: the D4 includes brackets, but I don't know what they look like or if they could be turned 90 degrees.

But I would never leave the D4 in a surround application. They are just too good for that. They would end up in a dedicated two channel system and I'd be right back where I am now.

The more I think about using the D3 LCR as surrounds, the more I like it. Unless I am mistaken, the double 4" MTM layout is designed for wide dispersion and should fill the area with sound better than a single 4", given that it's the same driver presumably with the same or similar axial response. If I am mistaken, I hope somebody will tell me.

But I would never leave the D4 in a surround application. They are just too good for that. They would end up in a dedicated two channel system and I'd be right back where I am now.


I'm sorry, but I think that's a silly arguement against the best solution available...the quality of your surrounds IS important, in fact identical speakers all around is the ideal.
Get two sets of 4's and stop whipping yourself.

I'm sorry, but I think that's a silly arguement against the best solution available...the quality of your surrounds IS important, in fact identical speakers all around is the ideal.
Get two sets of 4's and stop whipping yourself.
Two sets of 4's? I'm just getting my wife programmed to accept the Integra DTC-9.8, Velodyne SMS-1 and one set of surrounds, but I do see your point.

Guys...after listening to my D4s for the last two months...I can definitely say no regrets. Since there were no local dealers for me, I had bought them reading opinions on this thread and reviews (David from Era promised a 30 day money back). Of course the thought of returning never occurred to me...

It is my feeling that these speakers are getting sweeter the longer I have been playing them. They make me realize what I have been missing all these years.

BTW...I am playing just a 2.0 set-up and still feel these two tiny babies really fill the room. For those who are sitting on the fence looking for small speakers that sound really good these are the ones :)

I auditioned both the D4s and D5s today, and was very impressed (especially with the D5). They were in different rooms so I couldn't compare directly, but I much preferred the D5 over the B&W CM1 that I was able to directly compare against.

I have been listening to the 1's, 4's, and 5's in conjunction with mqany subs at many differant crossover points and with DD series room correction and integration (also with my own personal SMS-1) AND i can tell you that the extra little bass that the 5's and the 1's put out that may be more than I'd like to see them try to do, ISN'T an issue when you integrate them with subs and better crossovers, etc.
I have a lot of experiance with these as they have comprised many set-ups I've sold and am trying to decide on a new 7 way bookshelf system for my own revised system.

I'm not discounting others opinions at all, but I have heard these in MANY differant placement and set-up conditions, with lots of differant equipment in more than a few differant rooms.

Duplicate of a post of mine from another thread, I thought it may be usefull here as well.

Jake,for the new 7 speaker system you're considering,do you have any particular preference for a conventional bookshelf over it's sister mtm configuration(eraD5/LR5 for instance)?

Jake,for the new 7 speaker system you're considering,do you have any particular preference for a conventional bookshelf over it's sister mtm configuration(eraD5/LR5 for instance)?
I have to confess that I haven't spent nearly as much time with the 5LCR's's, though we've used them and the 4LCR's flanking plasmas with great results, but my personal needs and interests have me working with the Two-ways.

I finally got a chance to hear the D5's paired with Musical Fidelity integrated amp (A3cr). What a fine synergetic relationship. Not surprising when one considers that David is the US importer for MF products. If any of you get a chance hear them together, terrific stuff.

era and Musical Fidelity is a greati combination. After spending more and more time with my setup, I don't think you can find better electronics for these speakers. Of course I was told they were voiced on the A5 integrated, so that combination should be optimal.

Anyone have thoughts or experience on the Creek Destiny integrated amp with D5s? I'm thinking of upgrading my integrated amp but only have a small space for it. I'd also be open to any other suggestions about good "short" integrated amps (<3" tall) to drive a pair of D5s.

Cheers,

Shane

Anyone have thoughts or experience on the Creek Destiny integrated amp with D5s?

The Creek Destiny is a great amp, and while I have not heard it with the era's directly, I think it will pair nicely. Not sure what gives you the height restriction, but remember that amps need some room to breathe, so some clearance is required above the amp.

Iostream is right, the Creek is a fine piece of equipment, I'd be very surprised if the combo didn't give off a nice synergy.

Thanks, I was thinking it would work pretty well. Yes, I'm taking some "room to breathe" into account, but I want to make sure I give it enough. And I'm prepared to add a "silent" fan if necessary to move air, but it's a pretty open space other than the height restriction (under a shelf but not in an enclosure) so I think it'll be okay.

I spent over an hour yesterday with my era dealer and and ordered a set of Design 3 for surround duty. The biggest factors were their intended use, oddness of placement requirements and physical size. Lower cost was a nice bonus.

D5s coming home today. Near-new Creek Destiny I found on Audiogon should ship today, too. Hooray for upgrades!

D5s coming home today. Near-new Creek Destiny I found on Audiogon should ship today, too. Hooray for upgrades!

Congrats, that should be a great setup.

You know, so much advice comes down to how you use your system. When I listen to theater, I like multi-channel. It's fun, but not much comes from the rear channels...mostly acoustic cues, echos and the occasional bullet wizzing by.

Hi David, thanks for all the great replies.

I see most discussion is about music and movies, but i am primarily interested in using Era speakers for video games. My problem is that I don't know what set-up to get. Do I want more bass for the surrounds, or would that be a waste? Should I have have matching speakers all the way around? Should I just go by the same criteria as movies?

I really need small speakers, but I want full sound. My room is 10x15.

David,

Any word on the tower speakers. I am jonesing for an upgrade! When can we expect to see the towers in our local audio shop?

Just pulled the trigger on a full 5.1 set of Era. D4s up front and D3s for surround duty and the Sub 8. I live right nearby Saturday Audio in Chicago and stopped by today to audition PSBs (alpha and image) and Monitors (radius and bronze) and made the mistake of listening to the D4s. My 1k budget went right out the window. I couldn't be more thrilled.

I started off A/B'ing the PSBs and Monitors. I kept trying to convince myself that I could fall in love with one of them but the spark just wasn't there. And then I noticed the beautiful little speakers in the corner. Andy Zimmerman (the owner of Saturday Audio) saw me looking and told me about Era but said they just weren't in my budget of 1k. He hooked them up anyways and I was done.

Once I get them set up I'll post a more detailed review. Now I need to order some mounts for the D3s.

And now a question. The D4 mounting brackets appear to cover the port on the back. Am I doing something wrong? Does anyone have a picture of a mount installed?

David,

Any word on the tower speakers. I am jonesing for an upgrade! When can we expect to see the towers in our local audio shop?

Might want to email him directly. He mentioned to me that he's been very busy and hasn't been spending enough time on avsforum. His address is in an earlier post.

Got my D5s today and they sound sweeeet!

And now a question. The D4 mounting brackets appear to cover the port on the back. Am I doing something wrong? Does anyone have a picture of a mount installed?
I just had a look at the D4 and it's bracket. There is a small amount of space between the port and the bracket, but not much. Apparently, the D4 is good in this situation as far as port tuning. I guess it's true or they would have designed a different bracket.

Both the D4 & D5 ports are tuned 10Hz below the lowest resonant frequency of the driver, so not much information actually comes out of the port, mostly air. We designed the speakers to breath, not to increase mid bass as most ports are designed to do.
While in theory, there should be very little tonal difference on a bookshelf, I have tried both at home on a bookshelf and the D4 clearly worked better. The D5 loaded up too much for my room in this situation.

David

To quote David from earlier in the thread, the D4 does okay with the port so close to the bracket because the port doesn't do too much.

Has anyone done a demo of of era with parasound, marantz or rotel. What were the results and were you satisfied???

Has anyone done a demo of of era with parasound, marantz or rotel. What were the results and were you satisfied???

I have not heard them with Marantz, but I have heard them with Parasound and Rotel. Both are wonderful combinations and you cannot go wrong with either of them.

I am running my D5's now with a Marantz receiver. It does a good job I feel only if it is run with a sub and not played too loud. When I run them full range the receiver clearly needs help.
I have a Parasound A23 coming in on Tues. that will hopefully fit the bill.

I am running my D5's with a Rotel RMB-1075 and a Denon AVR-2307ci as a pre/pro. I find that it improved the quality of the D5 center channel the most. I also find it a little harsh at very high volume, but for most normal use I am pleased with the results. I think the 1075 may be a little strained for what I'm looking for volume wise. I should have gotten the 1095.

I am running my D5's now with a Marantz receiver. It does a good job I feel only if it is run with a sub and not played too loud. When I run them full range the receiver clearly needs help.
I have a Parasound A23 coming in on Tues. that will hopefully fit the bill.

Chris.

I have the A52 (5ch version of the A23) and am very happy with it. I demoed the D5s before buying Dynaudio 140s and feel the D5s are an excellent speaker. I think the D5s with the A23 will be a great sounding combination.

Bill

I am running my D5's now with a Marantz receiver. It does a good job I feel only if it is run with a sub and not played too loud. When I run them full range the receiver clearly needs help.
I have a Parasound A23 coming in on Tues. that will hopefully fit the bill.

cool thanks!! Are you using ht or stereo receiver?? I was looking at getting a Marantz 4021 and using the A23 for the D5 Listen mainly to 2 channel. Also was tempted by the MH Mavern but not sure its work that kinda money rather spend that a on a betterl preamp instead.

Chris.

I have the A52 (5ch version of the A23) and am very happy with it. I demoed the D5s before buying Dynaudio 140s and feel the D5s are an excellent speaker. I think the D5s with the A23 will be a great sounding combination.

Bill

Just wondering Bill why did you go for the 140's i'm looking at those for my second pair of bookshelves for a larger sized room. Prob will have to save for them but was debating on that still.

Just wondering Bill why did you go for the 140's i'm looking at those for my second pair of bookshelves for a larger sized room. Prob will have to save for them but was debating on that still.

I demoed the D5s and 140s several times at a high end shop that carried both. I found the 140s edged the D5s out in imaging and bass output. After two long listening sessions I decided the 140s would be my choice. The list price on the 140s is double that of the D5s so I really think when you consider cost the D5s did very well against the 140s.

Bill

My Halo A23 arrived today. I got it hooked up to my D5's and have been listening for a few hours.
At low to moderate levels I do not really notice any difference. At higher levels though I definately can tell a difference. Mid range does not sound strained; voices seem much more open, bass is tighter and overall it can just play louder. My Marantz receiver I dont believe was made to push this type of load. The ability to easily push the speakers must be the difference I am hearing.

My Halo A23 arrived today

Congrats! The A23 is an amazing little amplifier. Mated with the D5, you have an excellent combo.

Well quick question whats the temperature like does it run hot or warm???

It was running very warm when running the D5's at full range, it never got hot. With a sub in the mix it was warm. I also do not have an ideal tv/av stand. I need to look into something with better ventilation.

All Class A/AB designed amps will have some warmth to them. It should never be hot to the touch, though. If it is, then you should probably allow for better ventilation.

Even with the chassis warmth the D5's are an easy load on the A23. I often for kicks showcase the A23 mated with the Dynaudio Contour S5.4 to our customers. It has NO problems driving the Dyn's with full authority. Most on the fence buyers buy the amp after the audition. :cool:

Ask DAVE ABOUT THE COMPARISON....



Another question for Dave...
The guys from Musical Fidelity have a "slide rule" type of card that shows a real nice "dynamic range" rule of thumb for what type of amplification you should have for speakers of various efficiancies at 10 feet in a typical room accounting for slight losses inoutput at impedance changes and speaker manufacturers overestimating sensitivity.

Any chance someone can show that here?

Hi Guys,
I have been terrible keeping up w/ the posts. You can always get me at dsolomon@signalpathint.com . Please also feel free to post my email response since I'm traveling more and just trying to keep my head above water.

Here a link that will take you to the Musical Fidelity interactive slide rule.
http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/supercharger/diagnostics.html

Best wishes,
David

[QUOTE=Also about to install Sonos system in all 3 rooms (like your squeezebox), so this is getting rather costly. Question about your squeezebox: do you use DAC to improve sound quality? I'm thinking I need DAC (ie, Channel Island or Benchmark) for each system (unless I can access the AV rcvr DAC).[/QUOTE]

Hi Guys, We've been working on a product for iTunes, windows media, Sonos, Slim Devices, Apple TV, etc to go along w/ our speakers or just as a stand alone. The new company is called Peachtree Audio and the model is called the Decco.
It's a high current 50wpc Hybrid tube integrated w/ a D/A built in that accepts USB, Toslink and S/PDIF. Also has pre out for use w/ larger amps.
It works great in office situations or where the speakers are naturally close.

Here's some info on it.
Best wishes,
David Solomon
dsolomon@signalpathint.com

.....And you're surprised?
Seriously though ;) I have to laugh and ask Dave about this as I am looking at either three D5s across the front and four D4s as surrounds, or just seven D4s and I'm curious what kind of power I'd need to get to what levels....and at what levels (even with gobs of power) they're going to distort anyway.

Hi Dr. Earl,
My personal taists require 150-200wpc in a HT set up (in my room), but I really like to pressurize a room. My wife would be fine w/ a good 50 wpc. Keep in mind, that different rooms will require different power depending on how much sound pressure you like and how easy it is for the room to be pressurized. For me...I like a lot for when I want a lot.
Same reason I like lots of horse power in a car. I don't use it often, but when I do, I want to have it there in reserve.
Best wishes,
David Solomon

those towers look too sweet, but I cringe at the kind of amplification they're gonna need

I'm guessing the big ones will be better suited to the 5's

Because of the extra space and drivers, they're actually 4-5 dB more efficient than the smaller speakers.
Don't get me wrong, I still like 150-200 on them, but that power will be more than enough. Hopefully, they should arrive at the end of September.
Best wishes,
David Solomon

....and at what levels (even with gobs of power) they're going to distort anyway.

Hi Dave,
due to new set-up ideas, I'm leaning more towards 5's, but again, I'm interested in knowing the point at which compression would be my limiting factor in output in, say, a 2800 cubic foot room assuming a 250 watt amp (at least) and running in stereo (both a full range estimate and an estimate with a 50hz crossover employed would be welcome, if you don't mind guessing).

Dave,

Someone suggested putting books all around and against my ERA D4’s that sit in a book shelf. I have not tried it yet but I was wondering if you thought this would be a good idea? Is this not a good idea for the ERA speakers because they are ported? Here are pictures of my speakers placement right now and the article that suggests this.

Look halfway down where it starts “Bookcases, which are wonderful diffusers and absorbers,”.

http://www.audiovideointeriors.com/interiorideas/0106toole/
Hi mpg,
I have a similer situation in my den. Bookshelves on either side of a fireplace. I like D4's in that room because they're so close to the wall and the 5's are just too much for that situation.
Books are one of the best difusers you can get. They break up standing waves, making the speakers image better.
The only disadvantage is limited depth, but most who have setups like this have no other choice.
Best wishes,
David

Just wondering if David is still around? How are those towers coming? I am getting the upgrade itch! Also I still can not use the dealer locator on the website. The URL it points to says undefined.

Okay, I know I said June...then July. We are way too picky.
Now the new date is end of Sept for sure. They are actually being made now, so no more cabinet or crossover changes will be made.
We really like the results and hope ou all will too.
Not getting any feedback about dealer locator not working. I just tried and it works on my system.
Anyone else having trouble?
Best wishes,
David Solomon
dsolomon@signalpathint.com

David from ERA maybe?

Hi, I'm sorry this is so late after the post. Perhaps others can benefit from your questions.
Yes the LCR's will be more dynamic.
The radiation pattern will be reduced from top to bottom because of combing affects, however, if you're seated, this should go relatively unnoticed.
imo:
1. Mostly Theater I like the LCR
2. Mostly music, I like the sats.
This is not to say the LCR's don't sound good in two channel, they do in certain situations.
1. If you do simply want more dynamics
2. If you have hardwood floors and a reflective ceiling, I would go w/ the LCR's because the limited radaition patern will not be affected as much.

Hope this helps,
DAvid Solomon

It's a high current 50wpc Hybrid tube integrated w/ a D/A built in that accepts USB, Toslink and S/PDIF. Also has pre out for use w/ larger amps. It works great in office situations or where the speakers are naturally close.

Wow.. talk about knowing the market. This is a much needed product for the new generations of audiophiles. A lot of people have been looking for an integrated amplifier with a DAC section, including myself. A tube pre-amp section is nice, as well. All I can say is... it's about time!

Is it going to be released Q4? Are you guys going to be showing it at CEDIA? What kind of price point are we looking at? <$1000?

Sorry about the lack of bracket with the D3's. We felt that most would ues a ball and socket bracket, so we put the standard 1/4 thread 20 insert in the D3's and because we were trying to hit a price point w/ them, it was just a marketing decision we made.
Not saying it was correct. Sorry to all for any Inconvenience this may have caused. Good news is that this size bracket is very available from radio shack/BB and most independent dealers.
Best wishes,
David Solomon

Hi David, thanks for all the great replies.

I see most discussion is about music and movies, but i am primarily interested in using Era speakers for video games. My problem is that I don't know what set-up to get. Do I want more bass for the surrounds, or would that be a waste? Should I have have matching speakers all the way around? Should I just go by the same criteria as movies?

I really need small speakers, but I want full sound. My room is 10x15.

Hi Cris..
Games can be pretty dynamic, but you can certainly use the HT setups as a good starting point. I would think the surrounds could be the 3's no matter what as most everything on the screen will come from the front speakers. The rears will be mostly effects.
So a D4 or D5 front w/ D4 or D3 in the rear. A sub 8 or 2 and you're on the Starship.
Best wishes,
David

Hi Dave,
due to new set-up ideas, I'm leaning more towards 5's, but again, I'm interested in knowing the point at which compression would be my limiting factor in output in, say, a 2800 cubic foot room assuming a 250 watt amp (at least) and running in stereo (both a full range estimate and an estimate with a 50hz crossover employed would be welcome, if you don't mind guessing).

I think you're talking driver compression.
If so, the drivers don't really compress much at all.
They'll distort at or before the drivers compress.
You should be getting peak SPL levels of 110dB w/ a 250wpc.
Not much less (maybe 2-3 dB) not crossed over at 50Hz.
If I've missed your point or question,sorry, please write back.

Best wishes,
David Solomon
dsolomon@signalpathint.com

Wow.. talk about knowing the market. This is a much needed product for the new generations of audiophiles. A lot of people have been looking for an integrated amplifier with a DAC section, including myself. A tube pre-amp section is nice, as well. All I can say is... it's about time!

Is it going to be released Q4? Are you guys going to be showing it at CEDIA? What kind of price point are we looking at? <$1000?

It should be arriving here the beginning of Oct. It will be $799 and the first in the mix of what we hope to be a great line. It's built to the same standards we have in the era speakers.
I should have mentioned that we hired a great digital engineer (Scott Nixon) and we did all of the engineering and design work here. My partner Jim Spainhour spent the better part of the year doing the design so we're all excited to get it.
Best wishes,
David

Excellent. I'm excited about this product. What about showing it at CEDIA?

Excellent. I'm excited about this product. What about showing it at CEDIA?

Oh yes, we'll be at Cedia in booth 805. We'll be showing it with a PC full of iTunes, a Sonos, a Mac mini, a squeeze box and a hopefully a 2.1 theater if we have the room.
At first it will be available in piano black.
In the next few months, we'll offer the Decco in the same cherry and rosewood finishes we have on our speakers.
Best wishes,
David Solomon
dsolomon@signalpathint.com

Oh, David, one other question. Is it possible to add some sort of auto-sensing feature to the Decco? When integrated with a Sonos, it'd be nice if it turned on automatically when fed a signal (considering the Sonos doesn't use a conventional remote).

Oh, David, one other question. Is it possible to add some sort of auto-sensing feature to the Decco? When integrated with a Sonos, it'd be nice if it turned on automatically when fed a signal (considering the Sonos doesn't use a conventional remote).

Good idea. Our thinking was since we have a tube in the preamp section we would put standby on our remote. Maybe we were thinking too audiophile. It won't have auto-sensing on/off but it could in the future.
Best wishes,
David

Sorry about the lack of bracket with the D3's. We felt that most would ues a ball and socket bracket, so we put the standard 1/4 thread 20 insert in the D3's and because we were trying to hit a price point w/ them, it was just a marketing decision we made.
Not saying it was correct. Sorry to all for any Inconvenience this may have caused. Good news is that this size bracket is very available from radio shack/BB and most independent dealers.
Best wishes,
David Solomon


Jeez David, you really know how to catch up quickly. Just kidding! Keep up the good work. I personally love the fact that I could just pick up a set of $20 universal brackets for my D3's. My local audio shop wanted $80 for some overkill brackets. The $20 jobs do just fine.

I can't wait to hear the new towers. I might go and camp out on Audio Advice's doorstep!

It's a high current 50wpc Hybrid tube integrated w/ a D/A built in that accepts USB, Toslink and S/PDIF. Also has pre out for use w/ larger amps. It works great in office situations or where the speakers are naturally close.

Does it have a bypass feature like the xdacv8? and is Scott Nixon the guy who has been custom building usb dacs as one-offs for a while?
How would you compasre it's DAC performance against the MF piece? pro's and cons...aside from the obvious built-in integrated amp?

Does it have a bypass feature like the xdacv8? and is Scott Nixon the guy who has been custom building usb dacs as one-offs for a while?
How would you compasre it's DAC performance against the MF piece? pro's and cons...aside from the obvious built-in integrated amp?


There's no tube bypass, it's in the circuit always. Scott has been selling the same dac on a custom build for $795.
The dac sounds really good and we love Scott's design. Like my replies on this site with era, I try to avoid stating my "opinion" or doing comparisons with anyone’s product because it starts sounding to much like "sales speak" since I'm one of the owners of the company. As you guys get to know our company better, you'll find we cut few corners to opt for a better price. Although we'll market the unit primarily to civilians, this is an audiophile product that will need no apologies. I am, however, awaiting the first posts from the members here that have no ties to our company.
The real surprise has been using the Decco as a preamp. I've had it hooked to Spectral, ARC and the MF Superchargers so far with outstanding results.
One of the Decco's at the show will be pushing the Superchargers w/ our new towers. I'll take some pictures of the booth and post them when I get back.
Hope this helps,
David

There's no tube bypass

Sorry, I meant digital out for passing a dvd player's digital signal on through to a surround receiver (DD/DTS)

Who is Dr. Earl?

Sorry, I meant digital out for passing a dvd player's digital signal on through to a surround receiver (DD/DTS)


No Digital through.
Best wishes,
David

Sorry, I meant digital out for passing a dvd player's digital signal on through to a surround receiver (DD/DTS)

Most DVD players have both coaxial and digital output, no?

Most DVD players have both coaxial and digital output, no?
Yes, most DVD players have either coax (S/PDIF) or Toslink (Optical) or sometimes both.
David

Yes the LCR's will be more dynamic.
The radiation pattern will be reduced from top to bottom because of combing affects, however, if you're seated, this should go relatively unnoticed.
imo:
1. Mostly Theater I like the LCR
2. Mostly music, I like the sats.
This is not to say the LCR's don't sound good in two channel, they do in certain situations.
1. If you do simply want more dynamics
2. If you have hardwood floors and a reflective ceiling, I would go w/ the LCR's because the limited radaition patern will not be affected as much.Hope this helps,
DAvid Solomon Thanks for the explanation,David.Sounds like the sats will be more suited to my preferences.Speaking of dynamics,how do you feel the new floorstanders compare to the D4 and D5 monitors?

Thanks for the explanation,David.Sounds like the sats will be more suited to my preferences.Speaking of dynamics,how do you feel the new floorstanders compare to the D4 and D5 monitors?

They do have more dynamics and sound much bigger and more effortless.

Dave,
I'm sorry, have you posted dimensions yet on the floorstanders? Height is what I'm most curious about, thanks.

Dave,
I'm sorry, have you posted dimensions yet on the floorstanders? Height is what I'm most curious about, thanks.

The large towers (D14's) are about 42" tall and the small towers (D10's) are about 36" tall.
Not sure of the weight, but my back feels like they're about 65 lbs ea.
We'll have full specs on our web page soon.
Best wishes,
David

Excellent. I'm excited about this product. What about showing it at CEDIA?

We recently became a Musical Fidelity/Era dealer, and the guys at Signal Path were kind enough to bring by this new Decco amp, and I can attest to its sound quality. This "lifestyle" integrated amp had no problem driving a pair of our Dali Euphonia MS4s at 9000/pair.

We ran Apple Lossless streamed through the USB DAC, and the sound was excellent. Dont be fooled by the price, as this is a true high audio end piece in every sense. If you are looking for a nice little setup for your bedroom or office, look no further.

I have a feeling we will be hearing more about Peachtree Audio in the future. Nice job on this one.

This strangest thing happened yesterday! Somehow my ERA D4 speakers found 2.5 DB after 6 months of use. I had calibrated them about 13 times over that time period and every single time I would end up with +4 DB for the mains and -1.5 for the Center.

Then yesterday I decided to recalibrate because I noticed I was not getting 75 DB at reference volume anymore. I checked to make sure the “Night” mode was not on and then recalibrated. It came out to +1.5 for the mains and -3.5 for the center channel. I thought that something must have messed up the calibration. I checked it with my SPL. It was dead on(75.0 DB all the way around). I recalibrated 3 more times. Each time it always came out the same. The weird thing is that the rears came out the same they had always been at -1.5 DB for the left and -2.5 DB for the right(The surrounds are not symmetric due to room constraints).

So how could this happen? My system has never sounded better! It was just like the first time I heard them after using that crappy Blose stuff for so many years. Is there a break-in period for these babies? Has anyone else experienced this?

I did change my room. However, it was totally insignificant. I aligned the front speakers. The left speaker was about 1 inch farther back than the right before. Other than that the room is exactly as it has always been.

I had a demo DVD that I made about 1.5 months ago. I have listened to it countless times and I actually marked what volumes I could hit with it. I would do between 8.5 and -9.5 DB for everything but the “Pulse” track. I had to drop back to -15 on Pulse because my sub was the limiting factor.

Now I got all the way to -5 DB on the regular tracks and I am still stuck at -15 for Pulse. It looks like the sub and surrounds are outputting the same sound they always have. However, the Center and mains have found some new life!

so what's the final pricing on the towers?

I agree. Small with an 80 hz crossover for me as well for the D4s.

Well, funny turn of events. I am running 4 D4s and a LCR4. I upgraded my receiver from a HK to the Arcam AVR300. I thought for sure the difference was going to be subtle (which I would have been happy with), but it was actually quite dramatic. I am not sure if it is the extra power, or just the quality of the receiver, but I am much more enjoying the crossover set at 60hz vs the 80hz I was doing with the HK.

Quick question, on the back of the Arcam there is a switch for 4 ohm or 8 ohm. With the Design 4s, which setting is better?

so what's the final pricing on the towers?

The towers are going to be $1700 for the D10 and $2200 for the D14.
We have them here at Cedia w/ the final crossover design.
I'll post some pictures when I get back.

Best wishes,
David Solomon

The towers are going to be $1700 for the D10 and $2200 for the D14.
We have them here at Cedia w/ the final crossover design.
I'll post some pictures when I get back.

Best wishes,
David Solomon

Hello David

I guess, need to call Ray when he returns from Cedia, order
the D10's in rosewood. I forget, :confused: can they be bi-amped?

Thanks
:)

Hi Guys,
I have been terrible keeping up w/ the posts. You can always get me at dsolomon@signalpathint.com . Please also feel free to post my email response since I'm traveling more and just trying to keep my head above water.

Here a link that will take you to the Musical Fidelity interactive slide rule.
http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/supercharger/diagnostics.html

Best wishes,
David

Thanks for providing a link to this calculator. Do you know if it is used to find the power requirements per channel, or is this for the complete amplifier. Based on the information from their website, it looks like the calculation would be for the whole amp.

Using the slide rule for your 85dB D5s, you would need 1000W of power to get 108dB peaks without distortion. I don't know how much power would be needed to get 110dB (which is what I'd like), because based on the D5s efficiency, the slide rule won't go that high. I'm trying to figure out if that is 1000W per channel or 500W per speaker.

cedia pics?

Thanks for providing a link to this calculator. Do you know if it is used to find the power requirements per channel, or is this for the complete amplifier. Based on the information from their website, it looks like the calculation would be for the whole amp.

Using the slide rule for your 85dB D5s, you would need 1000W of power to get 108dB peaks without distortion. I don't know how much power would be needed to get 110dB (which is what I'd like), because based on the D5s efficiency, the slide rule won't go that high. I'm trying to figure out if that is 1000W per channel or 500W per speaker.

Hi Nor,
Using MF's calculations, the D5's don't stand a chance at 86 dB 1w1m of taking the 550 watt Super Charger, but most small speakers wouldn't either.
You can get 109 dB peaks out of each speaker using 250 wpc at 1m which is plenty loud for most. You can see from the forum feedback that most are pleased w/ a high current 100-150 wpc.
But if you want the dynamics and SPL that MF is talking about, you would need fairly efficient towers that can handle the power. If so, the D5 might not be the right speaker for you (but I would listen first).
Hope this helps,
David

Hi Nor,
Using MF's calculations, the D5's don't stand a chance at 86 dB 1w1m of taking the 550 watt Super Charger, but most small speakers wouldn't either.
You can get 109 dB peaks out of each speaker using 250 wpc at 1m which is plenty loud for most. You can see from the forum feedback that most are pleased w/ a high current 100-150 wpc.
But if you want the dynamics and SPL that MF is talking about, you would need fairly efficient towers that can handle the power. If so, the D5 might not be the right speaker for you (but I would listen first).
Hope this helps,
David

I'm still not sure if MF's calculations apply per channel or for the whole amplifier. It's not too bad if it applies to the whole amp. That comes out to 500W/channel. Which is possible (expensive maybe, but possible). If their calcs are per channel, then 1000W/channel for the D5s is not going to happen.

And based on their instructions, they are assuming a listening distance of about 4 meters, so they deduct 10dB to account for that. I don't think I would need 110dB at the listening position :). They also add 3dB for each speaker, that's why I assume their calcs apply to the whole amp.

BTW, aren't the D5s efficiency 85dB?

Just stumbled across the LSA Group's web site. They appear to use the same cabinet builder as ERA just in a slightly larger size than the D5 for their LSA1. They also have a tower, the LSA2, that might be closely related to the new ERA towers. http://www.thelsagroup.com/

Just stumbled across the LSA Group's web site. They appear to use the same cabinet builder as ERA just in a slightly larger size than the D5 for their LSA1. They also have a tower, the LSA2, that might be closely related to the new ERA towers. http://www.thelsagroup.com/

Hi Drew,
I have seen LSA cabinets. They were using the same cabinet maker for their first run, but no longer. I assume they use good drivers, however, I would not assume by looking alike that they sound alike.
It's always best to listen first if possible. We will both be at Rocky Mtn Audio Fest if this helps.
Best wishes,
David Solomon

Hello David

I guess, need to call Ray when he returns from Cedia, order
the D10's in rosewood. I forget, :confused: can they be bi-amped?

Thanks
:)

David

How close are the D10's to shipping? Have some others, need to sell.
Thanks
:)

David

How close are the D10's to shipping?
:)

Hi Jim,
Looks like we'll receive them around the 15th-20th of Oct.
Thanks for asking!
David

I'm still not sure if MF's calculations apply per channel or for the whole amplifier. It's not too bad if it applies to the whole amp. That comes out to 500W/channel. Which is possible (expensive maybe, but possible). If their calcs are per channel, then 1000W/channel for the D5s is not going to happen.

And based on their instructions, they are assuming a listening distance of about 4 meters, so they deduct 10dB to account for that. I don't think I would need 110dB at the listening position :). They also add 3dB for each speaker, that's why I assume their calcs apply to the whole amp.

BTW, aren't the D5s efficiency 85dB?

Hi Nor,
The calculations are based on one channel, just like the speaker SPL spec
1w1m is per speaker.
So MF's basicly saying that if you have a 250 wpc amp and an 86dB 1w1m speaker, "at the listening position", you'll get peaks of 103dB with that one speaker.
However, if you add the other speaker in "at listening position", you'll gain an extra 3dB. So your end result will be about 106dB peaks w/ both speakers playing "at the listening position". Hope this helps.
era: The first prototype D5's did measure at 85, but they're in reality, 86dB.
I noticed the mistake months ago and should have changed it then. I just wrote our web designer to get it changed.
Best wishes,
David

The first prototype D5's did measure at 85, but they're in reality, 86dB.
I noticed the mistake months ago and should have changed it then. I just wrote our web designer to get it changed.
But isn't the recommendation to subtract 3 db from the manufacturers numbers , and what would the numbers look like at @ 12 feet instead of 1 meter?

Hi Nor,
The calculations are based on one channel, just like the speaker SPL spec
1w1m is per speaker.
So MF's basicly saying that if you have a 250 wpc amp and an 86dB 1w1m speaker, "at the listening position", you'll get peaks of 103dB with that one speaker.
However, if you add the other speaker in "at listening position", you'll gain an extra 3dB. So your end result will be about 106dB peaks w/ both speakers playing "at the listening position". Hope this helps.
era: The first prototype D5's did measure at 85, but they're in reality, 86dB.
I noticed the mistake months ago and should have changed it then. I just wrote our web designer to get it changed.
Best wishes,
David

Thanks for the clarification. So the D5s would need about 400W/ch to play back 15dB peaks without distortion. That's pretty reasonable for my listening environment. I don't really listen to music at those volumes very often anyway. I have a pair of big towers with 89dB efficiency already.

BTW, why do speaker manufacturers use different impedance ratings? The most common I've seen are 4Ω, 6Ω and 8Ω. The amp manufacturers will also specify their power output based on the load impedance. For example, my amp is rated at 400W/Ch into 4Ω loads. The chart on your website (http://www.signalpathint.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=32&Itemid=45) shows the D5 satellites have a nominal impedance of 8Ω and a minimum of 6Ω. Since P=(I**2)R, if you double R, does the power rating also double. This would assume the current is constant. If voltage is constant, and since P=(E**2)/R, then if you double R, then the power rating is cut in half.

In other words, if I use an amp rated at 400W/4Ω, will this same amp provide 800W/8Ω or 200W/8Ω?

Is there a problem using an amp like this with a speaker with a minimum load impedance of 6Ω?

I'm just trying to understand the relationship between the amp's power ratings and the speakers efficiency and impedance specs.

Thanks again for your help.

But isn't the recommendation to subtract 3 db from the manufacturers numbers , and what would the numbers look like at @ 12 feet instead of 1 meter?

From what I understand, sound pressure levels decrease 6dB when you double the distance. Since 1 meter = 3.28 feet, or 12 feet = 3.65 meters, going from 3.28 feet to 6.56 feet would reduce the spl by 6 dB and increasing the distance to 13.12 feet would reduce the spl another 6 dB for a total deduction of 12 dB. So I'd guess you'd have to subtract about 11 dB for 12 feet.

BTW the slide rule takes into account a listening distance of about 10 - 11 feet and factors in a deduction of 10 dB.

Hi David,

Which ERA speakers would you recommend for an office. I recently heard the Decco with the ERA 4's and they were truly awesome, really great sound and I can't wait til the Decco is available. I spend so much time listening to music on my computer that i'm planning on an office system now.....USB--> Decco --> ERA's. Just not sure on ERA 3's or 4's. They will be sitting on my desk on front wall, not sure yet. What do you think?

Thanks, Time2Ride

Which ERA speakers would you recommend for an office. Just not sure on ERA 3's or 4's. They will be sitting on my desk on front wall, not sure yet. What do you think?


I have a pair of the Design 4 in piano black on my desk (currently wall mounted, moving to the desk surface when the new desk is finished). They are not too large, and less of a compromise than the 3s for stereo listening, in fact I prefer them over the 5s for a near field stereo setup.

Thanks for the clarification. So the D5s would need about 400W/ch to play back 15dB peaks without distortion. That's pretty reasonable for my listening environment. I don't really listen to music at those volumes very often anyway. I have a pair of big towers with 89dB efficiency already.

In other words, if I use an amp rated at 400W/4Ω, will this same amp provide 800W/8Ω or 200W/8Ω?

Is there a problem using an amp like this with a speaker with a minimum load impedance of 6Ω?

I'm just trying to understand the relationship between the amp's power ratings and the speakers efficiency and impedance specs.

Thanks again for your help.
Hi Nor,
Most 8Ω amps don't double into 4Ω. They vary depending on the current swing of the amp and the impedance swing of the speaker.
If you have an amp rated @ 400 into 4Ω, then it would be probably 200-250 into 8Ω and should be fine for the D5. It's rarely a problem going up in impedance; it's going down where amps have the most problem.
Speakers’ impedance fluctuates from one frequency to the next, some more than others. When a speaker is 8Ω, that's typically nominal, or most of the time. The same speaker could drop to 2Ω or rise to 20 depending on resonant freq of drivers, crossover designs or sometimes even due to heat in the voice coil. These that dip too low play havoc on low current amplifiers.

David

Hi David,

Which ERA speakers would you recommend for an office. I recently heard the Decco with the ERA 4's and they were truly awesome, really great sound and I can't wait til the Decco is available. I spend so much time listening to music on my computer that i'm planning on an office system now.....USB--> Decco --> ERA's. Just not sure on ERA 3's or 4's. They will be sitting on my desk on front wall, not sure yet. What do you think?

Thanks, Time2Ride

Hi Time,
I use the D4 with the Decco prototype. The speakers are about 12" from my head and they rock with a solid image when I want them to.
I have it hooked up through USB and the hard drive sounds amazing.
We also put a +5dB boost at 50Hz switch in the back of the Decco which adds just the right amount of bottom to the D4 w/o them becoming boomy. IMHO, this is the best office system going.
A lot of our dealers are buying a nice desk and putting this system up w/ iTunes on a laptop to simulate a high-end home office.
I think it's going to be a blast talking to the download generation and showing them what their music is capible of.
Don't know if any of you will be at Rocky Mtn Audio Fest, but I'll be doing a digital siminar w/ a few others. It should be interesting in that the founder, Al Stiefel, is making a real effort to invite the download crowd into the show and ultimatly expose them to real highend.
Best wishes,
David

Hi Iostream,

Could you elaborate on why you prefer the 4's to the 5's for near-field stereo?

I spend 90% of my music time doing low- to mid-volume listening with a pair of D4s about 30" from my head (flanking a LCD monitor at the front of a desk in a large open room; there's a Sub 8 under the desk that pulls double-duty as a footrest.) With the D4s canted in ever so slightly, the stereo field is utterly satisfying.

Meanwhile, I have a role for a pair of D4s elsewhere in the house, so I was considering buying a pair of D5s to put in their old place of honor; all the reviews I've seen describe the D5s as "Like the D4s, but even moreso." Your comment, though, suggests that I might be better served by getting a second pair of D4s instead. I'd appreciate any relevant experiences you'd be willing to share.

Thanks,
-Hans

Could you elaborate on why you prefer the 4's to the 5's for near-field stereo?


Two reasons really. First and foremost, near-field stereo also implies somewhat close to rear walls. With my new desk I will actually be a bit further out, but the 5s get boomy when too close to the rear wall while the 4s seem much better in this regard. Second, I think the midrange is just a bit cleaner on the 4. I don't know how to quantify it as it is purely subjective on my part, but I prefer the 4 (we aren't talking about a large margin here). I also use a sub (REL R-205) to fill in the bottom end, and the 4 crosses over low enough that I don't localize the sub. While I have 250W, I never really ask these speakers to play insane SPLs, so the smaller driver suites my needs just fine in that regard.

Thanks IO, perfect response! Good job reading between the lines too :), i was thinking the 4's might have been too large and close to be effective but you helped me out. You're costing me money though :)

Time2Ride

Thanks David, it really is just educating people. I didn't realize how good my iTunes could sound until recently. I attended a digital event at the local high end shop and i was really blown away. Three products really impressed me, your ERA 4's and Decco, and then a Wavelength Tube DAC. All were sourced with a laptop and cheapo ipod cable (although i'm sure audioquest will come up with something soon) and i was just amazed at the sound coming out of a pc.

Here's a neat link to some old concerts that are being digitized....some sound good, some don't but pretty neat stuff http://concerts.wolfgangsvault.com/

Take care,

Time2Ride

Very cool link Time! I'll be using this a lot.

I had promised some pictures of our booth at Cedia so here they are.
You will note that I'm no professional photographer.
For some reason, I didn't get a good shot of the D10's.
Best wishes,
David Solomon

Hello,
Was looking for some opinions, I'm looking to start fresh for a new HT (5.1) setup, I do about 75/25 HT to music. In my search, I've narrowed down my choices to the following setups (not sure about subs yet):

Onkyo's new 605 (is this enough?) or 805, Denon 2808 or 3808, Outlaw 1070, Arcam 350 (highly unlikely as I'd like to be as cost wary as possible) don't care about video at all, will have HQV in HD-DVD player or TV.

Era D4 mains and surrounds w/ D4LCR center.

Totem Acoustic Dreamcatcher 5.1 or Mite mains/surrounds w/ Mite-T center. (if I go Totem, I'd buy the Storm sub)

Aperion Audio 532LR mains, 533 center, 534LR dipole surrrounds.

Cost vs. Sound, for a small - med room, which is the nicest rig?

Also, does it matter if the sub is from a different manufacturer than the loudspeakers? I know about tonal matching across the front, but for subs?

All input will be greatly appreciated.

Best regards,
Bryan

You are in an Era thread.

Very cool link Time! I'll be using this a lot.

I had promised some pictures of our booth at Cedia so here they are.
You will note that I'm no professional photographer.
For some reason, I didn't get a good shot of the D10's.
Best wishes,
David Solomon


... but I happen to know that you are very professional at other things :)

Hugs from Colorado David...

All the best...

mls

Era D4 mains and surrounds w/ D4LCR center.

Totem Acoustic Dreamcatcher 5.1 or Mite mains/surrounds w/ Mite-T center. (if I go Totem, I'd buy the Storm sub)

Aperion Audio 532LR mains, 533 center, 534LR dipole surrrounds.

I haven't heard Aperions, but I think the D4s are as good as the $1200 Totems I heard and very, very similar sound, but you need stands.

I will be auditioning the D4's this weekend and will also be purchasing a new AVR to power them. (if they're my choice). My concern is the low impedence and the ability of a receiver in my budget range of 500 - 700 to drive these. ( I'm considering Sherwood R 672) These will do duty in my 200 sq ft living room. I'm migrating from two channel, CARY SLI 80 Sig, Cary 303 / 200 cdp, and North Creek Borealis towers so overall sound is important. MUsic / MOvies 50 / 50 at moderate levels. I have neighbors now! Any thoughts? And you guys should look at Adcoms AVR, no frills big amp section!

Thanks
Dan

Dan,

I initially powered my D4/D3 5.1 setup with a Pioneer VSX-1015TX receiver that cost me $500 two years ago. That unit claimed 120W/channel, and in practice it had no trouble driving the D4s with a terrific dynamic range, especially for movies. (Letters from Iwo Jima, Children of Men, Saving Private Ryan... I seem to watch a lot of movies that have quiet dialog sections followed by sudden sustained thundering artillery bombardments.)

I'm not really recommending that particular Pioneer; I didn't like what it did to music at high volumes. But I wanted to mention it as evidence that a receiver in your price range can do a perfectly fine job of driving the D4s.

-Hans

THat being said, I'm more concerned about how music sounds even though I'll be 50 / 50 music, movies. I've been watching movies through a 32" crt for the last 18 years. Any suggestions, recommendations would be appreciated.

Dan

Very cool link Time! I'll be using this a lot.

I had promised some pictures of our booth at Cedia so here they are.
You will note that I'm no professional photographer.
For some reason, I didn't get a good shot of the D10's.
Best wishes,
David Solomon
Man I can’t wait to listen to those towers! I have a few options for upgrading. Could you let me know what option you think is the best?

1. I could get the D10s and move my D4’s to surrounds and eventually use my D3’s as rear surrounds(I don’t have room for rear surrounds right now) or use them as Front Affects right now. This is the most expensive option.
2. I could trade-up my D4’s for D10’s with my local audio shop’s liberal upgrade policy and use my D3’s are rear surrounds. This would be the most cost affective solution.
3. I could trade-up my D3’s for D10’s and use my D4’s as surrounds. This would be the second most cost affective solution.
4. I could use the D10’s on the “A” channel of my receiver and the D4’s on the “B” channel of my receiver with the D3’s as surrounds. Do you gain anything by having multiple sets of main speakers? The D4’s would be slightly higher(About 1.5 feet) than the D10’s.

Man I can’t wait to listen to those towers! I have a few options for upgrading. Could you let me know what option you think is the best?

1. I could get the D10s and move my D4’s to surrounds and eventually use my D3’s as rear surrounds(I don’t have room for rear surrounds right now) or use them as Front Affects right now. This is the most expensive option.
2. I could trade-up my D4’s for D10’s with my local audio shop’s liberal upgrade policy and use my D3’s are rear surrounds. This would be the most cost affective solution.
3. I could trade-up my D3’s for D10’s and use my D4’s as surrounds. This would be the second most cost affective solution.
4. I could use the D10’s on the “A” channel of my receiver and the D4’s on the “B” channel of my receiver with the D3’s as surrounds. Do you gain anything by having multiple sets of main speakers? The D4’s would be slightly higher(About 1.5 feet) than the D10’s.
Hi MPG,
I would do option 1 if you have room in the back for the D4 rear and listen to multi-channel music. If not, the D3 actually makes a fine rear effects speaker for movies.
You really don't gain anything w/ two sets of mains, unless you just like to switch back and forth. I personally like as few transducers in a room as possible as they all cancel eachother in certain frequencies and also rob some energy from the others.
Best wishes,
David

Just heard a D4 & D3 set-up with twin sub8's in a den/library. Very impressive!!

Bryan:
You have picked some fine finalists. I've had the opportunity to hear all of them, this is my take:
The Aperion 532's have a more european sound, and don't go nearly as deep as the others. You may want to move up to the 632's for the front.

The Totem Dreamcatchers, like the Era D4's do amazing things for their size, but they don't dig quite as deep as the D4's, and a few people perceive them as a bit bright. The MITES are a wonderful speaker, I love mine. But some people don't care for the slight bloom in the midrange.

The Era D4's are smooth, with a bottom that can give a nice thump, especially in a smaller room. They are forward but without the color.

David makes a fine suggestion when he suggests the D3's as rears.

Enjoy the auditioning.

Will the ERA D3 mate well with a 6BM8 amp? Not sure about the wattage but maybe less than 10wpch.
I plan to use it for easy listening, soft background music in the office.
TIA!

Bryan:
You have picked some fine finalists. I've had the opportunity to hear all of them, this is my take:
The Aperion 532's have a more european sound, and don't go nearly as deep as the others. You may want to move up to the 632's for the front.

The Totem Dreamcatchers, like the Era D4's do amazing things for their size, but they don't dig quite as deep as the D4's, and a few people perceive them as a bit bright. The MITES are a wonderful speaker, I love mine. But some people don't care for the slight bloom in the midrange.

The Era D4's are smooth, with a bottom that can give a nice thump, especially in a smaller room. They are forward but without the color.

David makes a fine suggestion when he suggests the D3's as rears.

Enjoy the auditioning.
Affordable,
Thank you very much for the input. I have auditioned the Totem Dreamcatchers and did find them a bit bright, but superior to anything I've heard for less than $500 a pair.

I have not auditioned the Mites or Era D4's, which from my research seem like they are wonderful loudspeakers.

I do not know of where I can audition the Era's anywhere near where I am. I live in Troy (Albany) NY, about 140 miles from New York and Boston.

The Aperion's I was considering just from a sheer value standpoint, it would be half the price of the other two I was considering for a 5.1 setup.

Last Q, if I go with Era's, do I need to match the sub???

Treezskier:
Email David Solomon, I'm sure he can locate a dealer for you. If you're a big bass hound, a sub is a definite must. But, if not, and your room is small, you may decide to skip the sub. I do believe that the Era Sub8 is a quality unit, and not just an after-thought.
I can tell you that all three companies are run with the highest standard towards customer service.
Sorry to sound a bit wishy-washy for an answer, but subs are more of a personal choice than any other piece in a system.

The biggest problem with sub recommendations is that there are many variables that make a good choice both difficult and personal.
Difficulties involved are that they can be painstakingly difficult to set-up properly both in terms of placement, crossover selection, level, and possible EQ interaction (if used). Due to the fact that equipment gets moved so often in a retail environment and that friends and others may not have done set-up properly and that it may take even a knowledgable hobbyist a long time to tweak a sub into a system and room correctly, I often hear subs that I know to be good, sound bad.
The "personal" part of it comes from hearing WAY TOO MANY people listening to music through their system with the sub sounding HORRIBLE (imo) yet the are bobbing their heads with that glazed look of satisfaction on their face. I hear people ranting about subs that I have never heard sound good to me, as often as I've heard people complain about good subs that they've heard in bad set-ups. Some people's musical tastes or level of sophistication comes into play here in so far as what sounds good to them. Houses across America are full of "one note" bass (not to be taken literally), some people like deep , some people like loud, some people like musical articulation, some people like flat, some people like seemless integration with room and other speakers, etc....and then some like these things in certain combinations.

The Era's , like some of the Rels, can sound very musical but are not going to go terribly
low or have a ton of output, and while it may not help in the depth department, output of a good sub can be helped by adding another of the same.

The type of audio you listen to also has a lot to do with your Bass performance. For instance I have an SVS-PB10(I couldn’t afford the ERA subs). The SVS does amazingly well with almost every movie in my collection. LOTR, Spiderman, Incredibles, etc…. all sound outstanding. However, when I threw in the “Pulse” track which has a constant 16-20 Hz sweep my poor little sub began chuffing and puffing. It just couldn’t handle those frequencies.

I think the ERA D4’s can hold their own for most music listening. However, a good strong 10” or greater sub is essential for multi-channel movies. The D4’s could never hope to do the “Pulse” track justice on their own. Actually I can’t think of any reasonably priced “speakers” that can do that track justice without the help of a sub.

I had naver heard of Era speakers until I happened upon them this weekend while speaker shopping. I must say they are very impressive sounding, especially considering the size. Even my wife liked them and she doesn't usually take much of an interest in these things but has recently as I've dragged her with me to audition different speakers.

Our leading candidate going into this round was a pair of Sonus Faber Concertino Domus. We compared those again with a pair of Monitor RS6 floors and for the price difference to the SF found those to be very nice; not up to the level of the Conertino Domus, but to be fair the price difference is $500 ($1400 vs $900). Across the street in a different store (don't you just love trying to compare speakers at different shops?) we found the Era D5s and D4s. We both immediately loved them, especially the D5s. Again, for the price difference of about $500 these speakers compare favorably to the Conertinos. For about the same price, the RS6 offer superior bass but don't have quite the same clarity and presence, lacking a little in the mid range compared to the Eras. We also compared the Eras to a few B&W and Paradigm bookshelf models at the same store as well as a B&W floor standing model and really felt the Eras offered superior sound in terms of presence and clarity.

All in all I can't imagine a speaker at this price and size sounding any better. The look and feel of these speakers is easily on par with the sound too which is a nice bonus; these feel like you can expect them to last for as long as you want to hang onto em. I'm glad we found these and I think a pair of D5s and a pair or two of D4s are going to find there way into our house soon. We're not done shopping just yet, but I don;t think we'll find anything better at this price.

One question posed on this thread that I didn't see answered, maybe I just missed the answer, is recommended subs to pair with the D4s or 5s. I don't think I would add one as these are for music only and I think will provide enough bass response based on what I have previously had in the same rooms but it would be nice to hear of some suggestions should I get them and decide I want a little more bottom end without spending another $800 - $1000. Sorry David, but I jsut would not want to spend that much for a sub.

If it's sound quality and acoustic music first , and foremost, then I think adding a cheap sub would likely detract from the overall balance and SQ, and therefor I would look at a bigger bookshelf or floorstander of similar quality. However, if you are just looking to be able to switch something on for the odd, bass-laden rock n' roll listening session or movie then there are a lot of subs that can do the trick.

I am in the throws of a decision and ERA is on the short list. I am trying to get a 80% movies, 20% music setup going in a 15'x25'x10' room, with the speakers on the 15' axis. I was planning on putting 3 PL28s as LRC and D4s as for rears, but it sounds like D3s might be a better (ie bang for the buck) option. Probably will be running with a Marantz SR7001.

Thoughts?

I have the D4's wall mounted with the supplied ERA bracket, orientated vertically. I am moving and would like to leave the brackets up and just substitute in some cheap speakers instead of pulling them down and repainting the wall. Does anyone know of a cheap speaker that has a threaded insert like the D4s? Or I guess I could just drill into the speaker cabinet.

Hopefully in my new place I'll be able to put the D4s on stands. What stands were they using for the D4s at Cedia?

Thanks

Drew

Not sure if this is allowed or not ... but does anyone know what the MSRP on the D3, D4 and D4 LCRs are??

if you are in the san diego area there is a shop that sells them. i went for a listen about two moths ago and my jaw hung low. the sub was ok and i would not swap my pb12-nsd for the era but their 5.0 system sounds great.

Not sure if this is allowed or not ... but does anyone know what the MSRP on the D3, D4 and D4 LCRs are??

Here's the price sheet...
David

When will we see the D10 and D14 showing up at stores? I had the D5 on my short list as my earlier post indicated but I found them a bit too lacking in bass when I went back for another listen. I also found them to have a limited soundstage this time, which was strange because I hadn't noticed that before. Going back for another listen and hope to see the D10s there one of these days!

When will we see the D10 and D14 showing up at stores? I had the D5 on my short list as my earlier post indicated but I found them a bit too lacking in bass when I went back for another listen. I also found them to have a limited soundstage this time, which was strange because I hadn't noticed that before. Going back for another listen and hope to see the D10s there one of these days!

Hi JN,
The towers should be hitting our warehouse the end of oct.
I know, july...aug...sept...oct...but really, they should be in then.
At some point next year, we'll be introducing a new 12" sub as well.

As far as the D5 not having as much bass as before and a lack of pin-point image indicates the speakers may be out of phase...happens from time to time. Those are two things we typically don't hear from our customers. However, while the 5's have a boatload of bass output, they really only go down to a little less than 50Hz..
Best wishes,
David Solomon

Hi JN,
The towers should be hitting our warehouse the end of oct.
I know, july...aug...sept...oct...but really, they should be in then.

Best wishes,
David Solomon

hello David

Do you have the sensitivity rating for the D10's. How does the
impedance curve look? Thinking of using tubes .
Thanks
:)

hello David

Do you have the sensitivity rating for the D10's. How does the
impedance curve look? Thinking of using tubes .
Thanks
:)

Hi Jim,
Haven't received the impedance curve/spl, however I will post when I do. They should be in the 6-8ohm range w/ a fairly flat impedance curve as we did w/ the D4/D5. And from listening, I expect they are in the 87-89dB range...Let's see how close I come.
One correction...I spoke too soon on the expected date.
I am assured the towers will be here the 3rd week in Nov. I was told this before but sor some reason, the end of Oct stuck in my head.
I'm sorry if I've caused inconvenence to anyone due to the missed expected dates.
Best wishes,
David

Do you have response curves for the PL series? I listened to some Paradigm Cinema 330s and Milennia 30s and while they sounded OK, the mid range was just too rolled off for my taste, the sound was too flat.

Just listened to these amazing speakers today. I've already purchased a mid-range receiver (Onkyo 705) with 100W per channel.

Question is, will this receiver handle these loadspeakers in a 5.1 configuration? If not I can always return the receiver since I did just buy it, but I'd rather keep it since I got a good deal.

If anyone can help me figure this out I'd really be greatful.

Eric

I went ahead and got a pair of D5s to replace the D4s, which will soon have a new home in my bedroom. They're not broken in yet (about ten hours' playing time), and they're perhaps a touch bright right now; I'm hoping they'll round out like some previous posters have talked about.

Other than that... wow. I adored the D4's soundstage and clarity in my desk chair's sweet spot, but they just couldn't command the 15x60 room that they live in. To make matters worse, I have placement constraints that prevent them from getting much boundary reinforcement. With the D5s, it's a complete non-issue. Similar soundstage as the D4, but with so much more OOMPH behind and beneath them. They also feel like they're doing a better job of partnering with my Sub8; I'm running them full-range, with the sub crossed at 60Hz. I see where Iostream is coming from when he talks about them being slightly less defined in the mid-range than the D4, but perhaps that's just a function of the increased bottom-end sound keeping my brain distracted.

Truth be told, everything I have to say about the D5 is right in line with what everyyone else has said about them on this thread. Thanks, everyone for helping me make an informed purchase.

As enamored as I am with the D5, I can still see why the D4 garners the lion's share of reviews and discussion. What an amazing sweet spot of size, sound, and price. By this HTIB-refugee's standards, the D5s are big suckers that visually dominate their spot. The D4's, meanwhile, are just beautifully sized and proportioned.

-Hans

Here's the price sheet...
David

Hi David

Price sheet shows- 4LCR for D4 & D14 Tower ?
Price sheet shows- 5LCR for D5 & D10 Tower?

Am I missing something?

Thanks
:confused::)

Hi David

Price sheet shows- 4LCR for D4 & D14 Tower ?
Price sheet shows- 5LCR for D5 & D10 Tower?

Am I missing something?

Thanks
:confused::)

Hi Jim,
The D4 LCR drivers match the top two drivers in the D14 and the D5LCR match the top two drivers in the D10. These are the best sonic match, albeit weird that the cheaper center goes w/ the more expensive tower.

Hope this helps,
David

Hi Jim,
The D4 LCR drivers match the top two drivers in the D14 and the D5LCR match the top two drivers in the D10. These are the best sonic match, albeit weird that the cheaper center goes w/ the more expensive tower.

Hope this helps,
David

David

Thanks for the quick clarification.

:)

I've had my D5's for over a month now and just wanted to post back that I really love these speakers. I had some tough placement issues in an L-shaped space, but I worked it out and they sound great. I haven't been paying much attention to break-in but I was just sitting here thinking how great they're filling the space. I liked them when they were new but I love them now.

Shane

What placement issues did you have and how did you solve them? What receiver or pre/pro/amp config are you using with this spearkers?

I'm considering D4's for front duty and D3's for surround but also have weird shape room. LCD is over firplace with no room to the sides to wall mount these speakers. On stands is not an option cause I have a two year old who would have them in ruins in days.

I have had my D5's for a few months now and have really enjoyed them, especially since I got an external amp. I do have a question though. I have a fairly small room, about 216 sq ft., and I sit about 8-9 ft away from my display. I am picking up the D3's for rears but am not sure if I should get the D5 LCR or the D4 LCR. I probably watch movies 50% of the time, and the LCR will be powered by a receiver, as the amp I got is 2 channel only.
Any suggestions?

Hi to all.... My fist post.

I'm putting together my first stereo listening room and need some expert advice related to the ERA D5's...

I will be listening to blue grass, baroque, and classic rock (nice mix, huh?).

Listening room is ~ 25'x15'x7' = 2600 cf. Carpeted floors. Paneled walls. Sheetrock ceiling, Brick hearth, and ~ 30 sq ft of glass.

Now my technical questions about ERA speakers...I was in Phoenix this past week and had an opportunity to hear the ERF D5's for the first time. I was really impressed. I'm considering matching a pair of D5's (and possibly a ERA Sub 8 or Sub 10) with one of the new Onkyo 9555 Class D integrated amps:

1. I understand the Class D amps like high impedance speakers, and I'm wondering of the D5's will match?

2. The ERA's are fairly inefficient speakers. I understand this generally translates to "richer" sound at lower volumes? Can someone please explain to me? Will the 9555 be able to drive them hard enough to fill my relatively small room?

3. Is the current carrying load capability of the 9555 amp suitable for the D5's?

Thanks in advance for helping this newbie...

Sherrell

Here is what I'm planning out, I need help with the missing piece though.

Room Type = Family room with no back wall (opens to kitchen)
Room size = 12x14x10 (WxLxH)
Floor = Hardwoord
Video/Stereo ratio = 50/50

TV = Sony 46XBR4 (still sitting in the box) with HDMI 3.1 inputs.
Proposed Speakers = 5.1 config - era D4's Sats for front L and R sats and D4 LCR for center. era D3's for surround duty.
Power amp = Emotiva LPA-1 or LPA-2 if I wait for that (December).

What's missing? Of course its the receiver or pre/pro.

Video requirements are HDMI switching, and v 3.1 would be a great match for the new HDTV. Multi sourse/multi zone would also be a requirement (min 2 zones). Also upscaling of all analogue video content to 1080p would be good as would iPod dock support.

So, can anyone help? Can I match a decent Sony reciever with pre outs to the Emotive LPA-1 and era D4s/D3s and expect solid stereo performance or do I need to go with a dedicated pre/pro?

Can anyone make a receiver or pre/pro recommendation that would blend nicely with the above and match my processor requirements?

Solving this last peice of the puzzle will allow me to pull the trigger on the era's, which I'm just dying to do :)

Keep up the audiophile fellowship...its amazing.

Cheers,
Eric
Thank you one and all.

Can anyone make a receiver or pre/pro recommendation that would blend nicely with the above and match my processor requirements?

dtc9.8 and any one of a number of good amps to go with it.

dtc9.8 and any one of a number of good amps to go with it.

Thanks Jake. I will put it as option 1 on my list. Do you think the Emotiva LPA-1 might be a good match with this dtc 9.8? Would you classify the Emotiva LPA-1 as a 'good amp'?

Thanks again,
Eric

What placement issues did you have and how did you solve them? What receiver or pre/pro/amp config are you using with this spearkers?

I'm considering D4's for front duty and D3's for surround but also have weird shape room. LCD is over firplace with no room to the sides to wall mount these speakers. On stands is not an option cause I have a two year old who would have them in ruins in days.

I use these for stereo music only in an L-shaped kitchen+dining+living room area with hardwood floors and no good place to put floor speakers where they would sound good except for the living room. Even if I did put them in the living room, I have no good place for the electronics.

I put one D5 on a shelf and the other on a speaker stand, both pointed toward the dining+living "leg" of the L. They sound great even 30' away on the couch, and I get more volume than I need. If I really want to rock out I go downstairs where my HT is, so that's a separate issue. This setup is primarily for "entertaining", though most of that time it means the two of us (or three when the kid is up) .

I'm running a Creek Destiny integrated amp with both Zune and iPod docks hooked up. I got a great deal on the Creek on Audiogon, but if I were doing it again I'd want to give a listen to the amp that David from Era Design is working on (or maybe it's out now?) before I bought anything else as it's designed for digital music and I expect it will work well with the Era speakers.

Hi Everyone,

I just auditioned theD4s at a local retailer and loved them ... I'm thinking of purchasing the D4s for my sides, d3s for my rear surrounds and the d4 center channel (I'm still not sure about the subwoofer). My setup is as follows:

Listening Room: 12' * 15' that opens up into a dining room off the side. High 10' ceilings
TV: 50" Pioneer 5070 - don't need video processing in reciever.
Requirements: Want high quality sound but not booming bass or high volume as I live in a condo building that is relatively soundproof but I don't want to blast my neighbors.

The dealer recommended that I get a Rotel RSX-1057 5*75W receiver. He stressed that Rotel is a lot more strict that most other companies in how it rates it's power and would have more power than other receivers with higher Watt ratings.

I am, however, thinking about pairing the speakers with an Onkyo TX-SR805 because (1) is cheaper (2) seems more future proof in that it can handle the newest audio formats via HDMI (3) there seem to be more reviews out there that this is a great receiver (4) THX Certified. (5) Is rated at 130W*7 and should be able to drive these speakers.

I have two sets of questions. (1) Am I overlooking something that the Onkyo would not be good with these speakers? Features aside, would the Rotel sound siginificantly better? (2) Am I spending too little on reciever for these speakers? To optimize my budget, should I be spending more on reciever but less on speakers such as getting just the D3s and then something better than the Onkyo 805 or Rotel RSX-1057?

I really like the D4s, but it would be out of my buget to also get a $1500+ receiver to power them. I don't have a large room where I need to speakers to be loud so I'm hoping the Onkyo 805 would be sufficient.

Any help to inform my decision would be greatly appreciated.

Hi Everyone,
The dealer recommended that I get a Rotel RSX-1057 5*75W receiver. He stressed that Rotel is a lot more strict that most other companies in how it rates it's power and would have more power than other receivers with higher Watt ratings.

I really like the D4s, but it would be out of my buget to also get a $1500+ receiver to power them. I don't have a large room where I need to speakers to be loud so I'm hoping the Onkyo 805 would be sufficient.

Any help to inform my decision would be greatly appreciated.

Personally, I would go with an inexpensive receiver like an Onkyo or a Yamaha VX-661($350 online) and then pair it with a decent 5 channel amp like the Rotel RB-985(100 watts x 5 channels) for ~$400 used. I did this and it sounds great. Why pay for a sub par amp in a receiver when you can get a cheap receiver with all the features and just use an external amp?

Why pay for a sub par amp in a receiver when you can get a cheap receiver with all the features and just use an external amp?
Torroidal transformer made by Rotel themselves , and a better pre-out section?

Torroidal transformer made by Rotel themselves , and a better pre-out section?

So is there anyway to measure how much better a pre-out is in a Rotel as opposed to a Yamaha? Which would you rather spend your money on, the amp or the pre-out?

Torroidal transformer made by Rotel themselves , and a better pre-out section?

I guess I should have clarified what I was referring to. I meant that the amp in the Onkyo would be sub-par as compared to an inexpensive Yamaha receiver paired with a decent Rotel amp.

The Rotel receiver would definitely be better than the Yamaha or Onkyo alone. However, I am sure the Rotel is a whole lot more expensive than the other receivers even when they are paired with a decent amp.

2 questions for ERA

when do the towers hit the website?

can you recommend a few specific receiver models that might drive a full system which uses Design 14's as the front mains?

Does anybody sell ERA speakers online? (Their own website doesn't seem to have a "buy direct" option, that I have found.)

2 questions for ERA

when do the towers hit the website?

can you recommend a few specific receiver models that might drive a full system which uses Design 14's as the front mains?

Hi DL,
The D10's and 14's will be on the site about mid-late November. About when they start shipping. Sorry for the delay, but I have had trouble getting pictures from the factory.
There are a few receivers that I can recommend. My favorite remains the Arcam AVR350, but most with a good power supply will do the job as well.
The upper-end Denon's, Yamaha's, Pioneer's, Rotel's, Onkio's etc will work fine and will push the D 10's or D14 well...
I just recommend staying away from the budget receivers as they typically have poor power supplies.
Having said this, if you do have a lesser powed unit, they can always be pumped up w/ an outboard amplifier as some have noted on these pages w/ good results.
Hope this helps,
David

Does anybody sell ERA speakers online? (Their own website doesn't seem to have a "buy direct" option, that I have found.)
Hi Pulliamm,
We have no web dealers, however, we do have dealers that will ship to you if there are none in your area w/ a 30 day in-home trial.
Write me @ davids@signalpathint.com w/ your location and I'll hop right on it.
Best wishes,
David Solomon

Hi DL,
The D10's and 14's will be on the site about mid-late November.

There are a few receivers that I can recommend. My favorite remains the Arcam AVR350, but most with a good power supply will do the job as well.
Hope this helps,
David

Hello David

Can a person bi/wire/amp the new towers ??
I currently have a Arcam AVR350.

Thanks
:)

Hello David

Can a person bi/wire/amp the new towers ??
I currently have a Arcam AVR350.

Thanks
:)
Hi Jim,
No, they're single ended inputs. I used the 350 at RMAF w/ the 14's and like the 4's and 5's w/ this receiver, it was an amazing combo but even better.
Since they are more efficient, I have a feeling that a lot more receivers will work well w/ them as well.
Best wishes,
David

Quote:
Originally Posted by PULLIAMM
Does anybody sell ERA speakers online? (Their own website doesn't seem to have a "buy direct" option, that I have found.)

Hi Pulliamm,
We have no web dealers, however, we do have dealers that will ship to you if there are none in your area w/ a 30 day in-home trial.
Write me @ davids@signalpathint.com w/ your location and I'll hop right on it.

I'll make this easy for you in your search. We are the only authorized ERA dealers in Oklahoma. Just do a search on "Oklahoma".

Design 4 Satellites installed.

93856

Design 4 Satellites coupled with OmniMount 20.

93857

David

Since the D10 has a front port, D14 rear slot port. How close to wall
can the D14 go vs the D10?
Thanks
:)

As promised before, here is a picture of the desk I built with the Design 4s on it. They seem much smaller here than in my old setup... For scale, the monitor shelf is 48".

Well, I've got a full ERA setup now. D5's for fronts, 5LCR for center, D4's for rears and the ERA10 sub.

Using a Lexicon dc-2 along with a proceed amp3 for fronts, and rotel 1050 for the rears.

I'm still playing with the sound meter to get things sounding good. However I'd like to get some input on how to fit the sub into the system? The lexicon only offers crossovers of 40/80/120hz.

So I'm trying to determine if I should set crossovers for the fronts (80 for D5's, and 120 for sub), or if I should just wire the sub inline with the fronts, set the crossover on the sub itself, and tell the lexicon that I have full-range/full-sized fronts and no sub?

Also, has anyone had any problems with the shielding in the 5LCR? I have it sitting directly on top of the television. If I position it so the writing is readable on the back of the speaker, I get a beautiful rainbow in the corners of the television. If I flip it upside down, I just get a little color distortion on the upper left hand corner. I had a mirage om-c3 center sitting in the same location for 6yrs and never had a problem.

So I'm trying to determine if I should set crossovers for the fronts (80 for D5's, and 120 for sub), or if I should just wire the sub inline with the fronts, set the crossover on the sub itself, and tell the lexicon that I have full-range/full-sized fronts and no sub?

Let your processor do the work for you. You can play around with setting the L/R set to 'large or small' and decide which you prefer. I have mine set to 'small' with crossover points of 80hz as the cutoff. The center is set to 'small' as well at 80hz as the cutoff. Set the sub at 80hz.

As for shielding, I believe they are sheilded.

Hello David

I guess, need to call Ray when he returns from Cedia, order
the D10's in rosewood. I forget, :confused: can they be bi-amped?

Thanks
:)

Hello Good News:

I just ordered the D14's & a LCR4 in Rosewood. In stock now,
shipping from Seattle, should arrive here (?) Wednesday.
Will post some pictures late next week.
:):):):):)

David

Since the D10 has a front port, D14 rear slot port. How close to wall
can the D14 go vs the D10?
Thanks
:)

Hi Jim,
Good question!
The D10's were designed to get close to the wall w/o too much mid-bass response. We didn't want to veil the midrange when folks are forced to have the speakers close to the wall for various reasons.
But, if you can pull the speakers out 2 or more feet, the D14 is theway to go.
Both are much easier to push than the D4/5 as they're about 88-89dB...

We went kind of crazy on the crossover and kept using the more expensive parts...air core inductors, sonicaps etc... by the time we finished, we had spent 6 times the amount we had budgeted. It was all worth it and now couldn’t imagine using a lesser crossover. We're very proud and it was also worth the extra year we spent being picky to the last detail.

Can't wait to hear what you guys think.
Most of our dealers are being shipped as we speak.
we'll get them on the site asap but will still be a couple of weeks. They're being shipped to me for photography now.
Best wishes,
David

Hi Jim,
Good question!
The D10's were designed to get close to the wall w/o too much mid-bass response. We didn't want to veil the midrange when folks are forced to have the speakers close to the wall for various reasons.
But, if you can pull the speakers out 2 or more feet, the D14 is theway to go.
Both are much easier to push than the D4/5 as they're about 88-89dB...

We went kind of crazy on the crossover and kept using the more expensive parts...air core inductors, sonicaps etc... by the time we finished, we had spent 6 times the amount we had budgeted. It was all worth it and now couldn’t imagine using a lesser crossover. We're very proud and it was also worth the extra year we spent being picky to the last detail.

Can't wait to hear what you guys think.
Most of our dealers are being shipped as we speak.
we'll get them on the site asap but will still be a couple of weeks. They're being shipped to me for photography now.
Best wishes,
David

Thanks David

That was my thinking when I saw a earlier photo. My D-14's will be about
28-29 to the back cabinet (to start). I just sold my Euphonia MS-4's
they worked well in that spot. How low does the freq response go?
Thanks again
:)

If anyone is wondering, I am system down sizing. From my experience
with the D-4's, these should provide a great performance to cost ratio.

Hi Jim,
We're stating 32Hz on the low end, but it sure seems lower that that when we listen.
All the best,
David

Wow!
I thought 38z-42z, good news! Also what are the dimensions for the towers?

Thanks again

:)

Wow!
I thought 38z-42z, good news! Also what are the dimensions for the towers?

Thanks again

:)

My mistake Jim. In room response should be about 38-40Hz.
David

Wanted to let you guys know I was able to get 4 D4s and a matching LCR for my setup and it is VERY sweet!

Wanted to let you guys know I was able to get 4 D4s and a matching LCR for my setup and it is VERY sweet!

NICE!
Lets see some pics

ERA D4 installation pics. Enjoy!

95357

95358

Hello everyone

My D-14's just arrived! Unfortunately there was some damage during shipping. David is sending a replacement pair as I type. These are
in Rosewood, a beautiful finish. He wanted me to play with them,
until the new pair arrive next week. Sound is very,very nice for a $2200
speaker.If I did not know the cost, I would easily guess $4500-$5500.
Bass is excellent for a small tower, more to come. Hopefully will post
some pictures by Friday. Using a Arcam AVR350 for now.

:D

nice

Hey all...need some help with a speaker placement decision. Which would be better, D4's above ear level (approx 25 inches to base of speaker) or D3's below (approx 20" to top of speaker). These will be going in a custom built in entertainment center but due to the size of the TV it will be impossible to mount them to the left and right of the screen...

If you don't want to answer the D3 or D4 question...can anyone give me general guidance regarding whether its better for the speakers to be above or below the ear/eye level. I could angle them up or down in either space.

This seems like a ridiculously dumb question....someone smart help me out! :D

Here's a link (http://i17.tinypic.com/82x7s0k.jpg)to the layout which I've made extra useful with msPaint.

Also...would a Marantz SR7002 adequately drive the D3 or D4? Its 110w/channel. I could do the SR8001 if needed @ 125w/channel. Thanks!

since Era has no Canadian Dealers listed on their site that I can see, do they ship direct to Canada?

since Era has no Canadian Dealers listed on their site that I can see, do they ship direct to Canada?

Sorry DL,
Terrible oversight on my part. For now, you can call our distributor in Canada direct. I will work on getting the Canidian dealers listed as soon as possible.
Best wishes,
David Solomon

Canadian Distributor
KonnectSon
Bruno De Lorimier
Bus: (905) 372-3548
Mobile: (905) 767-5663

Which would be better, D4's above ear level (approx 25 inches to base of speaker) or D3's below (approx 20" to top of speaker).
Also...would a Marantz SR7002 adequately drive the D3 or D4? Its 110w/channel. I could do the SR8001 if needed @ 125w/channel. Thanks!

Couple of things... If you are far enough back (14 or more ft) with the correct rake, the D4 could pull the video staging down enough to be natural.

If you'll be fairly close to the TV... and the way the picture is drawn, I would go with the D3's for best video staging if you simply can't get D4's there.
The Marantz 7200 is just fine. It’s high current w/ a nice power supply.

Hope this helps,
David

That helps a lot David. Thanks for the quick response. Distance is only 10 ft or so...I'll see if there is any chance of getting the D4's below but more than likely it'll be D3s.

bump for sound impressions and pics from jjtoma

I seem to be the first kid on my block with the Peachtree Decco amp, so I figured I'd write up some impressions. I've had it set up in my bedroom since late October, sitting between the optical output of an Airport Express and a pair of Era D4s. It's a quirky beast. Everything about it - the looks, the packaging, the little thank-you note that was in the box - makes me think that Dave Solomon & co. had a lot of fun making it.

Setup was about an hour - 58 minutes of getting the various wireless hubs in the house to play nice, and two minutes to unbox and hook up the Decco.

And hey, it works. The sound is warm and fatigue free, while retaining all of the detail and neutrality that I've come to appreciate from the D4. Dynamic swings are wonderful, even at low volume levels. It also does a noteworthy job of handling poor source material; while I feed it mostly lossless files from CDs, I can give it a purchased 128Kbps AAC and it doesn't punish me for it. That's a wonderful attribute for a product marketed as an iTunes companion.

On most recordings there's something startling that happens when I turn the volume dial up to the 11-o'clock position. Suddenly, the sound pushes past the bedroom walls and energizes the entire upstairs. Turn it down one notch, to 10:30, and the soundfield steps back inside the room. Up one notch, and there it goes again. I don't know if it's a property of the amp, the speakers, the room, or some combination of all of them, but it's completely repeatable; it's like the whole system hits its stride at that level, and... erm... goes to eleven. Sorry, couldn't resist.

I have some nits to pick - an ergonomically iffy remote that works better when I bounce the signal off the wall than when I point it directly at the sensor, a surprising amount of high-pitched ringing sound at higher volumes settings whenever the Optical and Coax inputs are selected (even if there's nothing actually hooked up to those inputs), and I wish it remembered my previously selected input when I bring it up from standby. And speaking of standby, it takes about five minutes before it starts to sound its best.

Not all the quirks are bad, though. Like the Era speakers, it's far prettier in person than in any of Signal Path's marketing literature; the glossy black is classy and well executed. The window on the front lets you see the glowing orange tube, right alongside a trio of blue LEDs, for a defiantly "old meets new" vibe. And it came with a spare tube in a little box boasting "Who's your buddy?" A very cute touch.

Hello everyone

Here are some photos of the D-14's in Rosewood. This pair will be
replaced by another set. They sound way better than a D-5. gives
a large soundstage, good deep bass for a small tower. Sounds
similar (to my ears) between a Aerial 6 & 7B. I personally
think they are a great value. I will give a more detailed post
when my replacement set arrives. Currently I do not have them spiked
or raked back for setup. At Audioreview I would rate them a 5/5.

:)

Here is 1 more photo. I am driving these with a Arcam AVR350(downsizing)
former system was Arcam AV9,P7,DVD139 powering Dali Euphonia MS4's,
RS3's, CS4.

Now D-14's,D-4's & LCR4.

:)

Hello everyone

Here are some photos of the D-14's in Rosewood. This pair will be
replaced by another set. They sound way better than a D-5. gives
a large soundstage, good deep bass for a small tower. Sounds
similar (to my ears) between a Aerial 6 & 7B. I personally
think they are a great value. I will give a more detailed post
when my replacement set arrives. Currently I do not have them spiked
or raked back for setup. At Audioreview I would rate them a 5/5.

:)

Great pictures Jim,
I could almost use the first one on my web page...
Glad you like them.
Best wishes,
David

awesome pics

how does your current system compare to the Dali system?

awesome pics

how does your current system compare to the Dali system?

Hello
Let's put this into the proper perspective. Dali Euphonia MS4 ($10,500)
RS3 ($4300), CS4 ($4300). compared to the ERA system, yes the Dali's
are better, but at 5 X the price?? The ERA are excellent at their price
point up to 2 to 3 times their cost. Please remember the ERA's MSRP.
D-14's ($2200), D-4 ($600), LCR4 ($500). Total for Dali $19,100;
ERA total $3300, Difference of $15,800.

In my view ERA is the best value quality (sound&construction) speaker
available today's market place. I wanted to down size and can not be
MORE HAPPIER with my decision.

:)