Has anyone heard of these. I am about to order a set as they sound wonderful but I can't find anything on the net on them. I am told they come from the same folks who make Aerial speakers.

They have a beautiful wood finish and top of the line binding posts.

Thanks,
Paul

I had been searching for some floor standers for quite some time. I started out auditioning B&W 600 series and then the CM series, then equivalent priced speakers in the Paradigm line. Finally I heard the Design 5 ERA speakers by signal path international (Bookshelf). They sounded great. To be honest I was ready to buy B&W's without ever having listened to them due to their great reviews online, but it's like everyone says the only way you can know is if you actually audition. Every ear is different and mine really enjoys the ERA's. I have to admit though their marketinyg campaign is really lame and while there product kicks ass and is quite the bang for the buck, I wonder if this branch of the company will be around for long.

I recently got a pair of the Design 4. A recent review, with which I totally agreee:
HomeTheater 4/06 Review (http://www.hometheatermag.com/completesystems/406era/)

I'm new to the audio arena and have never had any audio equipment in my house. Of these three speakers B&W M1, Orb, Design 3 ERA which is the best? Also, My room is 14' wide by 20' feet long and has a 10 foot ceiling. Are these speakers going to fill the room or should I be looking at larger speakers?

The Design 4's Sound More Like Bookshelves And Less Like Satelittes, Give 'em A Listen.

Thanks you. How do they compare to the Amphion Ions?

If I can answer any questions, please feel free to email. davids@signalpathint.com
Best regards,
David Solomon
Era Speakers
Signal Path International

I've heard these speakers a couple of times at the only dealer in my area that carries them. The first time I was less than impressed, as they were rather poorly set up on either side of an rptv and I just thought I'd listen to them for the heck of it. The second time I was much more impressed with them. The dvd was Heat and I was really surprised at the quality of sound coming from these little speakers. Very clean and dynamic, and these were the Design 4's. A system of Design 5 LCR's is still on my short list of ones to consider, if I decide that my first choice is too expensive. Excellent speakers for the money.

I hear the on-walls are fabulous as well.

If I can answer any questions, please feel free to email.
Best regards,
David Solomon
Era Speakers
Signal Path International

David
What are the spec's for thr design 5 & lcr5

Thanks
:)

I want to hear these. I saw them recently at a local shop and they are very nice looking and very well built.

I want to hear these. I saw them recently at a local shop and they are very nice looking and very well built.

I just purchased a set of design 4's for surround duty. Plan on
5's for L&R/ LCR5 for fronts/ Sub 10. I listened to these at my
friend's shop, sounded very good. Big sound from a little
speaker, very impressive.

Just wish I had some specs, not even mentioned in the manual.
Will use these with a new Arcam AVR350


Jim
:)

From what I've been reading the ERA Design 4's and 5's seem to be rather impressive speakers, especially for their size. My problem is that I live in Europe (Switzerland) and can't locate any importers here to schedule an audition. I have however recently auditioned the CM1s and wonder if any of you can provide a comparative assessment of these against the ERAs?

I have however recently auditioned the CM1s and wonder if any of you can provide a comparative assessment of these against the ERAs?

The CM1's are very comporable to the Design 5's , both are among the best in the small bookshelf monitor category.

I just want to say that I am totally sold on the ERA line of speakers. I have listened to them at Audio Advice here in Raleigh NC. They are absolutely amazing. I can not believe how rich and full the sound is from the design 4 and especially the design 5 speakers. I was able to find an almost new design 4 center channel for $300 shipped. That is one heck of a deal for a speaker of this caliber. I can’t wait to replace my crappy Bose/Athena system with the ERA speakers. Some people have noted that it is very hard to find an online dealer who will ship these speakers. You can try Audio Advice or goodwinshighend at http://www.goodwinshighend.com/speaker.htm#era. I have dealt with both and they both offer excellent customer service. Anyway great job with these speakers. They truly astound me!

Some questions for Mr Solomon,

Do you make dedicated stands for your speakers, if not, do you recommend a particular brand/model?

Can you provide some specs/measurements regarding your subs, i.e. freq response, spl, etc...

Can the Design 5's be driven comfortably with a receiver as opposed to seperates, if so, can you recommend some makes/models?

Some questions for Mr Solomon,

Do you make dedicated stands for your speakers, if not, do you recommend a particular brand/model?

Can you provide some specs/measurements regarding your subs, i.e. freq response, spl, etc...

Can the Design 5's be driven comfortably with a receiver as opposed to seperates, if so, can you recommend some makes/models?


A review from 6moons.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/era/era.html

Also January 2007 issue of Stereophile has a feature on ERA Acoustics.
Design 4 & Sub 10, starting on page 141.

:)

Another review

http://stereos.about.com/od/gtgtloudspeakers/a/era_4_ls.htm

A member's review @ Audiogon

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?rspkr&1160330115&read&3&4&

David
What are the spec's for thr design 5 & lcr5

Thanks
:)

The D5's -3dB in-room response is 50Hz-20kHz +- 3dB, SPL 84dB, up to about 250 wpc.
I suggest 75wpc w/ good power supply at minimum...
There are a few exceptions of 50-60 wpc units sporting a big power supplies that work fine as well...
David Solomon
Era Speakers

Some questions for Mr Solomon,

Do you make dedicated stands for your speakers, if not, do you recommend a particular brand/model?

Can you provide some specs/measurements regarding your subs, i.e. freq response, spl, etc...

Can the Design 5's be driven comfortably with a receiver as opposed to seperates, if so, can you recommend some makes/models?

Hi
My favorite stand for the D5 is the Sanus Ultimate Foundation... They are wonderful and I use them at every show.
For the D4 & D3, I recommend the Def Tech Pro 100. The main reason is that they are fairly stable, plus the top plate works well.
If you'll write me at davids@signalpathint, I will send you a pdf of the specs. This is open to anyone needing info as they won't allow the use of emails or links until I have done my time here on the board.
We are working on our new web site that will be much more informative.

Sub8 ported, Sub10 sealed
Freq Response::: Sub 8 35-140 Hz Sub 10 25-140 Hz
Power::: Sub 8 200 watt A/B Sub 10 300 watt A/B
Features:: Ground lift (both)
Crossover 30-140 (Both)
Inputs/Outputs Sub 8 Low Level Sub 10 Low Level /Speaker level
Accessories:::Dense rubber feet Solid aluminum cones w/ floor protectors. 4-rubber pads for side mounting
Dimensions 14.5 x 12 x 12.5 w/ feet and amp/////////18 x 14 x 12.5 w/ feet and amp
Weight 55 lbs ////////// 68 lbs

My favorite receiver to date is the Arcam AVR300 or AVR350, however, we've had good results with most receivers that have a good power supply.

Best regards,
David Solomon

My favorite receiver to date is the Arcam AVR300 or AVR350, however, we've had good results with most receivers that have a good power supply.

Dave, do you mean a non-current limiting torroidal design?
Any mass market receivers that you think are ok for the Era's, or do you only recommend Rotel, B&K, Arcam, & Lexicon type receivers?

Hi
My favorite receiver to date is the Arcam AVR300 or AVR350, however, we've had good results with most receivers that have a good power supply.

Best regards,
David Solomon

Dave have you ever tested the design 4s with a Yamaha receiver? I noticed in one of the reviews that the design 4 bookshelves are power loving. Will an 85 watt receiver push them ok?

Depends on your tastes, content, room size, volume level.....which Yammie?

Depends on your tastes, content, room size, volume level.....which Yammie?


I have this Yamaha HTR 5660 85 watt receiver. Will it push the Design 4s?

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=200187&CTID=5000400&ATRID=1010&DETYP=ATTRIBUTE

I listen to TV from TWC cable mostly but I watch some movies also. My room is about 18, by 10 with no wall on the right side.

Most mid to high level receivers from 75 wpc or more measured full bandwidth will work fine in most mid sized rooms w D4/5. ie Denon, Yamaha, Sony ES... I've heard them all over the country at various dealers and most sound fine. Just keep in mind that we're dealing w/ a fairly inefficient speakers here.
Arcam is just one of the more musical HT receivers I've heard on our speakers.
We used them at RMAF (what a great show) and CES.

I just want to say that I am totally sold on the ERA line of speakers. I have listened to them at Audio Advice here in Raleigh NC. They are absolutely amazing. I can not believe how rich and full the sound is from the design 4 and especially the design 5 speakers. I was able to find an almost new design 4 center channel for $300 shipped.

Glad your local dealer could sell the center for someone else online. :rolleyes:

You do realize that you would have ignored the speaker if it wasn't properly set up, right?

Glad your local dealer could sell the center for someone else online. :rolleyes:

I am not sure what you mean by this? It seems like everyone wins this way. The first guy got to return his speaker, the store was able to move the speaker, and I got a great deal on it. What is wrong with that? If my local dealer had the speaker at that price I would have bought it from them. They didn't so I had to buy it online. I will buy the rest of the speakers locally because I can't find them anywhere cheaper. Price matters especially when it is a 40% discount.

You do realize that you would have ignored the speaker if it wasn't properly set up, right?

Not sure what you are referring to here either? Yes the room and the amplifier they used make a big difference in how it sounds. However, I have all of the confidence that this speaker will sound great even in the less than ideal conditions in my living room and with my lower powered amp.

We used them at RMAF (what a great show)

How were you received there Dave?

Really well thanks. It's by far the most fun show I've ever attended. Our dealer trippled his business w/ us since.

Well, I received my ERA design 4 center channel last night. I hooked it up to my trusty Yamaha HTR-5660 and turned on the MHD channel. I was slightly disappointed at first because the speaker just sounded like it was not getting enough power at all. I could barely hear it. I turned it off and I checked the spec sheet to see what OHMs the speaker is. The spec sheet said it was a 4 ohm speaker. Is that right? Everything else I had read had said it was a 6 ohm speaker. I thought oh great my little yammie is never going to handle this speaker. In fact, the manual states that the receiver can not handle anything lower than a 6 ohm center channel speaker. I checked the ohm setting on the back of my receiver and I realized I had it set for an 8 ohm center channel. I switched it to 6 OHM mode just hoping that the spec sheet was wrong. Sure enough when I fired the receiver back up this time the little ERA speaker came to life. It was a bit less efficient than the other center channel I had but the quality of sound difference was amazing. I know I need to buy the matching design 4 bookshelf speakers to really make it sound right but I need wait for some Tax money before I make that purchase.

Anyway, I am definitely sold on these speakers. I have not heard anything better that is the same size in any price range. If ERA could ever get their speakers into a Best Buy/Magnolia or CC they would make a killing. These speakers are not much more expensive than the highest end speakers that those stores carry. However, they are leaps and bounds better in sound quality. And both of those stores would sell a lot more speakers and receivers if they actually offered a decent product. I know ERA is all about quality of sound so they probably don’t want to be associated with the big box stores. They would make a ton of money though!

I just noticed that the center channel speaker does state that it is 4 ohm. Check out the text on the back of the speaker in this picture. Does that mean that I can not use the Yamaha amp with this speaker? The yammie manual states that the center channel must be at least 6 ohms. What will happen if you use a 4 ohm speaker with a receiver that can only handle 6 ohms or higher?

http://www.signalpathint.com/images/featureImages/f_D4_LCR_R_03.jpg
http://www.signalpathint.com/images/featureImages/f_D4_LCR_R_03.jpg

Hello David

I stopped at my friend's shop in Sarasota yesterday. He mentioned to me,
while at CES 2007, he learned ERA is working on some floor-standers. I am highly interested in this product. Would it be too early for you to talk about these?

Thanks

:)

Can anyone confirm that the Design 4 LCR is in fact a 4 OHM speaker?

I just checked the manual for the newest Yamaha receiver(VX-2700) and it states that the receiver can not handle center channels that are rated at lower than 6 ohms. This has me worried because the back of the ERA center channel states that it is 4 ohms. Am I damaging my speaker or receiver because the speaker is only 4 ohms? Does this mean that none of the Yamaha receivers can handle this speaker? That would eliminate the speaker for a lot of people who don’t want to upgrade their receiver just yet.

Hello David

I stopped at my friend's shop in Sarasota yesterday. He mentioned to me,
while at CES 2007, he learned ERA is working on some floor-standers. I am highly interested in this product. Would it be too early for you to talk about these?

Thanks

:)That really would be interresting. :)

I really have to compliment Era on the Design 4s; just an outstanding speaker. Even with the crappy $300 Sony receiver I'm using until my Ayre AX-7e integrated gets in, they sound pretty damn good. Compared them to the B&W DM303s that everyone seems to praise and they absolutely crushed them. They also extend pretty low for a bookshelf although I have a B&W ASW 300 on order.

Just as a point of reference for the above comments, my last system (I had to sell) was Wadia 850 CDP, ML 360 pre, Ayre V-3 and Nautilus 804s with MIT interconnects.

Keep up the great work guys; the only way I'm upgrading is if I go Nautilus. A product beyond its class.

P.S. I love the rosewood finish, as beautiful as the similar finish on my old 804s.

What Sony Receiver are you using? Does it handle 4 ohm speakers? Do you have the center channel also?

Sorry, no center channel. Receiver is this:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-uWN9IwEybF7/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=10420&I=158STDG800

I'll check the manual when I get home.

edit: manual says nothing.

Anyone know if the Era D3's are still available?

Anybody have them, or experience with them?

I checked their website and it is hard to tell. Plus I don't see a spot to place an order.

Yes I listened to the Design 3's the other day. They aren't in the same league as the design 4's and 5's in bass response. However they would do quite nicely as surrounds if you wanted to save a few dollars. I think the ideal setup with cost in mind would be design 5 bookshelves, with a design 4 or 5 center channel depending on your space requirements, and then the design 3's arround back. You could add in the B&W sub and the whole thing would be about $2100. Not too bad!

You could get all of them online here I think.
http://www.goodwinshighend.com/speaker.htm#era

Yes I listened to the Design 3's the other day. They aren't in the same league as the design 4's and 5's in bass response. However they would do quite nicely as surrounds if you wanted to save a few dollars. I think the ideal setup with cost in mind would be design 5 bookshelves, with a design 4 or 5 center channel depending on your space requirements, and then the design 3's arround back. You could add in the B&W sub and the whole thing would be about $2100. Not too bad!

You could get all of them online here I think.
http://www.goodwinshighend.com/speaker.htm#era

Thanks

Unfortunately I have hefty (tiny) space requirements.

I would like have 10" H X 7" W if possible.

[/QUOTE]I just checked the manual for the newest Yamaha receiver(VX-2700) and it states that the receiver can not handle center channels that are rated at lower than 6 ohms. This has me worried because the back of the ERA center channel states that it is 4 ohms. Am I damaging my speaker or receiver because the speaker is only 4 ohms? Does this mean that none of the Yamaha receivers can handle this speaker?[QUOTE]

Sounds like you answered your own question....not sure what else you need to know. You said a better and newer Yammie SPECIFICALY says it is not to be used with a 4ohm speaker.....then you ask if it is a bad idea?? If manufactor says not to do it.....why do it?? Take the speaker back. I know I am being blunt but you should have checked this before you bought the speaker.....that is Speaker Buying 101. If that Yammie has pre-outs then you can get a mono block or a 3 channel amp.....or just buy a different speaker. The simple answer to why you do not want to use that reciever with that speaker is the receiver is going to be pushed too much and it will either overheat or constently shut down before it damages itself. AFAIK that Yammie should have an automatic shut down.....I would not want to test that out though............

I just checked the manual for the newest Yamaha receiver(VX-2700) and it states that the receiver can not handle center channels that are rated at lower than 6 ohms. This has me worried because the back of the ERA center channel states that it is 4 ohms. Am I damaging my speaker or receiver because the speaker is only 4 ohms? Does this mean that none of the Yamaha receivers can handle this speaker?

Sounds like you answered your own question....not sure what else you need to know. You said a better and newer Yammie SPECIFICALY says it is not to be used with a 4ohm speaker.....then you ask if it is a bad idea?? If manufactor says not to do it.....why do it?? Take the speaker back. I know I am being blunt but you should have checked this before you bought the speaker.....that is Speaker Buying 101. If that Yammie has pre-outs then you can get a mono block or a 3 channel amp.....or just buy a different speaker. The simple answer to why you do not want to use that reciever with that speaker is the receiver is going to be pushed too much and it will either overheat or constently shut down before it damages itself. AFAIK that Yammie should have an automatic shut down.....I would not want to test that out though............

Actually I did check it out before hand. Every single piece of material on these speakers on the NET says they are 6 Ohm. The salesman I dealt with said it was 6 ohm. The only place that says they are 4 ohm is on the back of the speaker. It seems to be working fine with my Yammie which is not supposed to be able to handle it. I just would like someone like Dave from ERA to confirm that it is in fact a 4 OHM speaker. I will buy a separate if it is.

In case anyone is interested? There is a design 5 center channel and a sub up on a certain auction site right now.

Can anyone answer the question of “Is the ERA Design 4 Center channel speaker actually 4 or 6 ohms”? I have seen where some people say that most receivers will support 4 ohms even if they don’t explicitly say that.

[QUOTE=mpgxsvcd]I just noticed that the center channel speaker does state that it is 4 ohm. Check out the text on the back of the speaker in this picture. Does that mean that I can not use the Yamaha amp with this speaker? The yammie manual states that the center channel must be at least 6 ohms. What will happen if you use a 4 ohm speaker with a receiver that can only handle 6 ohms or higher?



Impedance has long been a source of confusion because there are variables that force receiver manufacturers to look at worst case scenerio and rate their amps from this perspective. ... If a speaker is rated at 4 ohms and drops to 1 ohm...this is a BIG deal, however, if a rated 4 ohm speaker drops only to 3, this is not a big tax on the power supply at all.
Many speakers have extreme impedance swings so "nominal" impedance" is not a very specific spec.
Rated speaker impedances can swing 50-90% lower than rated so you really need to look at minimum impedance.
The Era LCR's are really closer to 5 than 4 ohms to begin with and go no lower in any frequency than 3.2 ohms. Your Yamaha should handel this well unless you're clipping the amp to begin with.
David Solomon

Hello David

I stopped at my friend's shop in Sarasota yesterday. He mentioned to me,
while at CES 2007, he learned ERA is working on some floor-standers. I am highly interested in this product. Would it be too early for you to talk about these?

Thanks

:)

Hi Jim,
We showed our new tower prototype at CES w/ great dealer response. The top is a Design 4 sealed under the 4" driver and two 5" drivers that are now used in the Design 5. It is the best of both worlds.
We hope to have it out in June for about $2k.
Email me and I will send a picture and our new brochure.
David Solomon
davids@signalpathint.com

Hi Jim,
We showed our new tower prototype at CES w/ great dealer response. The top is a Design 4 sealed under the 4" driver and two 5" drivers that are now used in the Design 5. It is the best of both worlds.
We hope to have it out in June for about $2k.
Email me and I will send a picture and our new brochure.
David Solomon
davids@signalpathint.comThat sounds very good is Micheal Kelly involved in the design of this new speaker?and do you have any pictures of this speaker?

Anyone know if the Era D3's are still available?

Anybody have them, or experience with them?

I checked their website and it is hard to tell. Plus I don't see a spot to place an order.



The D3 is our newest speakers for those needing speakers under 8" tall.
We use the same woofer as the D4, however there just isn't much space in the cabinet, so we could get them no lower than 75Hz.
As of Feb07, our web site has been a disaster.
Sorry for the lack of info. We should have the new site up next week..
David

Impedance has long been a source of confusion because there are variables that force receiver manufacturers to look at worst case scenerio and rate their amps from this perspective. ... If a speaker is rated at 4 ohms and drops to 1 ohm...this is a BIG deal, however, if a rated 4 ohm speaker drops only to 3, this is not a big tax on the power supply at all.
Many speakers have extreme impedance swings so "nominal" impedance" is not a very specific spec.
Rated speaker impedances can swing 50-90% lower than rated so you really need to look at minimum impedance.
The Era LCR's are really closer to 5 than 4 ohms to begin with and go no lower in any frequency than 3.2 ohms. Your Yamaha should handel this well unless you're clipping the amp to begin with.
David Solomon

Dave,

Thank you for your response. That makes sense. I have been using(and thoroughly enjoying) my design 4 center channel for the past couple of weeks with my Yamaha HTR-5660. I have not had any problems with the center channel since I switched to the 6 ohm setting. When I had it at the 8 ohm setting it was clipping even at normal volume levels. However, once I made the switch to the lower ohm setting it has not clipped since. How bout the Book shelves? Are they really 6 ohm or are they closer to 8 ohms? I would like to buy a Rotel amp to power them in a bridged mode. Is that a bad idea since Rotel recommends that you use a 8 ohm or higher speaker in bridged mode?

Dave,

Thank you for your response. That makes sense. I have been using(and thoroughly enjoying) my design 4 center channel for the past couple of weeks with my Yamaha HTR-5660. I have not had any problems with the center channel since I switched to the 6 ohm setting. When I had it at the 8 ohm setting it was clipping even at normal volume levels. However, once I made the switch to the lower ohm setting it has not clipped since. How bout the Book shelves? Are they really 6 ohm or are they closer to 8 ohms? I would like to buy a Rotel amp to power them in a bridged mode. Is that a bad idea since Rotel recommends that you use a 8 ohm or higher speaker in bridged mode?


Yes, the D4 is a little better than 6 ohms, but drop no lower than 5.
I used the 75wpc Rotel receiver at CES 06 and it sounded wonderful, but it was not in a bridged mode either.
Once again, the D4's don't go much lower than rated impedance.

The D3 is our newest speakers for those needing speakers under 8" tall.
We use the same woofer as the D4, however there just isn't much space in the cabinet, so we could get them no lower than 75Hz.
As of Feb07, our web site has been a disaster.
Sorry for the lack of info. We should have the new site up next week..
David
Is that necessarily a bad thing?

Also does anyone else have any opinion/observations regarding the D3's?

Is that necessarily a bad thing?

Also does anyone else have any opinion/observations regarding the D3's?

I liked them for what they are good for. They would make excellent surrounds in my opinion. Little steep at $400 though but not too much more considering how good they are. They are not as pretty as the design 4 and 5 speakers though. Same finish but a more square shape.

I just bought an Yamaha HTR-5790 to replace my HTR-5660. I am stepping up from 85 watts per channel(20Hz-20Khz) with .06% THD to 110 watts per channel(20Hz-20Khz) at .04% THD. I know it won't be as good as a Rotel amp but it was all I could afford right now. I got it used for $150. That is pretty good bang for you buck. $450 for the Receiver and the design 4 center channel!

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=200023&CTID=5000400

I liked them for what they are good for. They would make excellent surrounds in my opinion. Little steep at $400 though but not too much more considering how good they are. They are not as pretty as the design 4 and 5 speakers though. Same finish but a more square shape.



Thanks mpgxsvcd

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I have serious room/WAF constraints so the D3's would be the best for my situation.

I have gone around & around trying to find the right fit. After more than a month, it was clear that the answer always came back to Orb.

I left a few pics of the Orb for my wife, and I'm not sure she is to keen on their looks. I have no doubt, she will find the ERA's much more to her liking. I'll show her the D4's. If she agrees then I am back with terrible speaker placement problems.

Oy! :rolleyes:

Can the D3's be match up with even smaller satellite surrounds?

Can the D3's be match up with even smaller satellite surrounds?


Hi Tase,
We don't make anything smaller, but we are working on an in-ceiling speaker. Hope to have it out by this summer.
David

PS: If any of you would like to make suggestions for new product, they are always welcome.

I second the Towers request!
Please!

Can't wait to see the new website. I think that if you get some more product information up there it will definitely help spread the word about these little gems! If you can add links for authorized distributors that would help too. It is hard to find out who actually sells them.

Here's a review http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?rspkr&1160330115&read&3&4&

Are the Design 4 Bookshelf speakers bi-wire or bi-amp capable?

Are the Design 4 Bookshelf speakers bi-wire or bi-amp capable?


No, They are single terminal.
David

No, They are single terminal.
David


Cool thanks for your fast response.

I had one other question also. When I auditioned the design 4’s and 5’s I heard them in a well controlled environment with the speakers sitting out in the open with no walls or enclosures around them. Can these bookshelves be used truly as bookshelf speakers where they are in an enclosure with only the front face open? My bookshelves should leave about 6 inches all the way around the speaker including the rear of the speaker. What will this do to the sound of these speakers?

Who sells Era speakers (in VA 22181 area)?

Cool thanks for your fast response.

I had one other question also. When I auditioned the design 4’s and 5’s I heard them in a well controlled environment with the speakers sitting out in the open with no walls or enclosures around them. Can these bookshelves be used truly as bookshelf speakers where they are in an enclosure with only the front face open? My bookshelves should leave about 6 inches all the way around the speaker including the rear of the speaker. What will this do to the sound of these speakers?


Both the D4 & D5 ports are tuned 10Hz below the lowest resonant frequency of the driver, so not much information actually comes out of the port, mostly air. We designed the speakers to breath, not to increase mid bass as most ports are designed to do.
While in theory, there should be very little tonal difference on a bookshelf, I have tried both at home on a bookshelf and the D4 clearly worked better. The D5 loaded up too much for my room in this situation.

David

Who sells Era speakers (in VA 22181 area)?


Sound Works
10526 Connecticut Ave.
Kensington, MD 20895
(301) 929-8600

Ask for Wally.

Hopefully we'll have our new web site up this week and will include a dealer locator.

David Solomon

Dave.
5's as mains
4's as rear surrounds
3's as side surrounds
Mainly do to size and placement concerns.....would this set up be to wierd?

Dave,

Can I post the picture of the towers for everyone here? You all are going to sell a Sh*T Ton of those speakers! That thing is freakin gorgeous! So simple yet so elegant!

Most mid to high level receivers from 75 wpc or more measured full bandwidth will work fine in most mid sized rooms w D4/5. ie Denon, Yamaha, Sony ES... I've heard them all over the country at various dealers and most sound fine. Just keep in mind that we're dealing w/ a fairly inefficient speakers here.
Arcam is just one of the more musical HT receivers I've heard on our speakers.
We used them at RMAF (what a great show) and CES.


I just wanted to say that I am a dealer for ERA speakers and the customer poitive feedback and reliability from sold product is 100%. The audio quality speaks for itself, simply amazing. David Solomon the gentleman answering your questions here from ERA is first class ant truly passionate about his profession. I will like to add that I listen to these speakers on Pioneer Elite receivers all day long and they do a great job driving ERA as well. I highly encourage anyone considering purchasing anything ERA to do so, you will have no regrets.

Jeff Hagg
The Pioneer Store

Thanks, for posting Jeff. I agree these things are modern miracles. I can’t wait to pick up my design 4’s and maybe even some design 3 surrounds today. Where is your shop located so that anyone in your area will know where to go audition these speakers.

Thanks, for posting Jeff. I agree these things are modern miracles. I can’t wait to pick up my design 4’s and maybe even some design 3 surrounds today. Where is your shop located so that anyone in your area will know where to go audition these speakers.

mpgxsvcd,

Thanks for asking, we are in southern California. The first Pioneer branded store in the US, inside South Coast Plaza, Costa Mesa. Because Pioneer does not have a complete speaker line we partnered with ERA to offer a full selection of high quality home theater speaker and music options.

store.pioneerelectronics.com (http://store.pioneerelectronics.com)

Dave.
5's as mains
4's as rear surrounds
3's as side surrounds
Mainly due to size and placement concerns.....would this set up be to wierd?


Paul, this is a perfectly fine system. Very similar to the multi channel system I used at CES 07. I used D5's for the front and center w/ D3's as the rear channel w/ the AVR300.

David

Dave,

Can I post the picture of the towers for everyone here? You all are going to sell a Sh*T Ton of those speakers! That thing is freakin gorgeous! So simple yet so elegant!


Sure MPG,
It's just a drawing currently, but you're welcome to post.
I will have a picture taken of the prototype as well and post it asap.
David

Is it just me or are these Freakin awesome looking?
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=75618

Is it just me or are these Freakin awesome looking?
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=75618

Those are gorgeous!

Those are gorgeous!


David

Very, very nice!
:) :)

Dave do have the specific part numbers for the omni-mounts that can be used with the design 3 bookshelves? That type of information on the website would be ideal. If you need any help on the website let me know. I think the key to getting the word out there about these speakers is the website. I think even you admitted it is lacking.

Dave do have the specific part numbers for the omni-mounts that can be used with the design 3 bookshelves? That type of information on the website would be ideal. If you need any help on the website let me know. I think the key to getting the word out there about these speakers is the website. I think even you admitted it is lacking.

Their website is not a good one.

I'm curious to hear a review between ERA Design 5 & AV123 Ref 1's.

Dave do have the specific part numbers for the omni-mounts that can be used with the design 3 bookshelves? That type of information on the website would be ideal. If you need any help on the website let me know. I think the key to getting the word out there about these speakers is the website. I think even you admitted it is lacking.


Any bracket that uses 1/4 thread 20 inserts.
This is the most common thread count for brackets.
Omnimount, Monstermounts, DefTec all make wall brackets like this as well as a host of many others that use this thread count. Most any hi fi shop will carry one or the other.
The omnimount:
http://www.omnimount.com/consumer/product.aspx?ProductId=3a5deb96-402c-41dc-bdaf-79a50406e3aa
David

Dave,

Thanks I wasn't sure of the weight of the design 3's so I didn't know which ones would support it.

Dave,

Thanks I wasn't sure of the weight of the design 3's so I didn't know which ones would support it.


Sorry, I should have provided our spec sheet long ago.
Here it is.
David

Their website is not a good one.


We are working on the new site even as we speak. We started last November, but the good ones apparently take a while. Should be up very soon. I know I said this week, which is what our web folks said...
In the mean time, if you would like a brochure which has most all of the info included, please email me and I will send it over. I would have posted a link, but it's about twice the size of the allowed space on AVS.

David
davids@signalpathint.com

Sorry, I should have provided our spec sheet long ago.
Here it is.
David


Yes that is an extremely helpful document! Thanks again.

Brochure anyone?

http://download.yousendit.com/80521D726741D824

Brochure anyone?


Just a suggestion David: you guys need to hire a professional designer to do this sort of stuff. Using Word and Arial fonts to create a "brochure" does not reflect the attention to detail shown in your products (i recently bought some D5s and a Sub 10, so I'm quite familiar with their quality).

Also just a curious question, but how low will the new towers go?

Just a suggestion David: you guys need to hire a professional designer to do this sort of stuff. Using Word and Arial fonts to create a "brochure" does not reflect the attention to detail shown in your products (i recently bought some D5s and a Sub 10, so I'm quite familiar with their quality).

Also just a curious question, but how low will the new towers go?


Thanks for the feedback BDH. The brochure is a stop gap until the same basic info is published on the web site by our web designers.
At some point we will hire a pro to do literature right. You're right, we spent way more time on the product than we did telling people about them... I promise to continue on the road to improvement of pieces like this.
Thanks again for the feedback..

I won't know how low the towers will go until I receive the final prototype in March and we finish voicing them. I have a good idea, but I think I'll wait to say until I know for sure.

David

You're right, we spent way more time on the product than we did telling people about them...

ERA is henceforth to be known as the anti-bose. ;)

I bought a pair of Design 3's last weekend to replace a pair of Kef Q55 floorstanding speakers. I recently moved into a smaller apartment, and the Kef's were simply too big. The quality of the 3's is very impressive in the mid to upper range, but left me wanting bass. Obviously, that's to be expected moving from a floor standing speaker to a tiny bookshelf speaker.

Today, I took the 3's back and shelled out the extra money for the 4's. Quite a big difference on the low end. What a beautiful little speaker.

In my opinion, those considering the 3's should probably pair them with a sub. I'll probably look to add a sub to the 4's at some point, but they sound great on their own.

I've been using a set of ERA D4's as rears for just over a year now. I've been extremely happy with their performance.

I'm using the omnimount wall mounts however I had to lengthen the slotted holes on the omnimount bracket to line up with the mounting holes on the D4's. It works great, just be aware that they will need some massaging.

While these speakers don't require a big amp, it really shows when you hook them up to a *good* amp. I went from using an 80wpc sony 333es receiver to a rotel rb-1050 2-ch amp and the speakers really came alive.

A friend let me borrow his ERA D5's, ERA 10 sub, and ERA 5 Center for an evening (in addition to my D4's in the rear) and I was really impressed with how well this combo performed. I'm in a very large room. My house is a very open floor plan, so the room is roughly 16x40. The rears are about 15-16ft from the front wall. I had no idea that a set of bookshelf speakers could fill the room as well as they did.

While these speakers have a great deal of bass for a bookshelf, they are still a bookshelf, so you have to have realistic expectations. In a home theatre setup and for bass-heavy music, the sub is *NOT* optional.

Regardless I'm probably going to sell my Mirages and pick up a set of ERA's across the front :)

Owner observations of the ERA design 4 and design 3 speakers. Sorry for the long post.

Let me pre-face this by saying that I am a newbie when it comes to audio. Until a few weeks ago my sub-par system consisted of a Yamaha HTR-5660, an Athena WS-60 center channel, the Blose 201 Series IV bookshelves(Mains), and the Blose 161 surrounds.

I finally decided I was going to sell all of my Bose/Athena equipment on ebay(I got $280 for my Bose and Athena center channels!) and buy a real system. Therefore, I have started building up a collection of the ERA speakers. Here are my observations of the ERA speakers I now own.

Ok so I purchased my ERA Design 4 bookshelves today(2/15/07) to match my ERA design 4 center channel. I didn’t quite have the funds to purchase the design 3’s as surrounds so I left my current “crappy” surrounds in place(More on this later).

I also purchased a used/damaged Yamaha HTR-5790 to replace my HTR-5660. The old receiver was rated at 85 Watts from 20 Hz-20KHz with .07 THD. The new one is rated at 110 watts from 20 Hz-20KHz with .04 THD. The receiver arrived and the front panel did not work. However, I cracked open the case and I was able to get the display working. What can you expect for $150?

So I calibrated my HTR-5790 with the Bose 201 speakers right before I hooked up the D4’s. The Bose were set to 0 gain. Then I switched to the D4’s and calibrated all channels with an SPL and the DVE Dolby Digital DVD. The D4’s needed to be set to a +4 DB gain to equal the D4 center channel that was set to -1.5 Db. That is a significant difference in sensitivity(ERA has always been upfront about this). However, it is something to be aware of. You really, really, really need to feed these things some serious power!

I calibrated my system with the center channel set to small, the mains set to large, the LFE is routed to both the mains and the sub, and the crossover is set to 90Hz. I did this because I do not have a great sub right now. It is one of those inexpensive Yamaha subs. My wife refuses to let me put the sub in the proper place in the room because she thinks it is ugly. Therefore, I really can not affectively utilize a sub right now. However, the ERA mains really do a decent job of handling the lower frequencies.

After I calibrated the speakers I turned on the HBO HD version of King Kong. I skipped right to the ending where King Kong bashes a plane out of the sky. I played it over and over again testing different settings on my receiver to see if I could get the sound right. No matter what I did I just could not get the system to sound right. Eventually I realized that the problem was that my surrounds just didn’t remotely match any of the other speakers! Plus they just plain sucked to begin with.

I tried calibrating the receiver so that it put all of the emphasis on the mains. That actually worked. However, all it did was set the surrounds to something like -2.5 which basically made them too quite to even hear.

Needless to say I was a little disappointed. Not with ERA though. The ERA speakers were perfect. I was disappointed that I had down played the significance of the rear speakers. Let me tell you from my limited experience that timbre matching definitely can make a huge difference for surrounds.

I finally realized that my only choice was to step up and purchase the design 3’s as rear speakers. When I bought the 4’s I had compared them with the 3’s and the 5’s. The 4’s and especially the 5’s are just outstanding speakers. I remember thinking that the 3’s didn’t sound so outstanding though. So I went back and tried the 3’s again. This time I listened to them while keeping in mind that they are not going to be used as mains. Once I did this I realized that these are definitely on par with the other ERA speakers in terms of what they are designed to do. So I purchased a pair of the 3’s for the surrounds.

I did have a little trouble though. It looks like an online dealer had posted that they came with mounting brackets. Apparently, they do not. I think Dave confirmed that with my salesman. That was a little disappointing but I had done my research and I found some omni mounts for only $40 for the pair at radio shack.

I just installed the 3’s a few minutes ago and can I say I am in heaven. The difference in my system now is night and day from what it was on Tuesday. The 110 watt Yamaha is probably the bare minimum that you can really use with these ultra low efficiency speakers. However, it does work just fine. If you have any less power I strongly recommend upgrading the receiver and maybe even buying a used Rotel or Emotiva amp.

All told I spent $300+$640+$430 = $1370 on my ERA 5 speaker system(Plus $150 for the used receiver). That is not bad considering that I have already sold two center channel speakers for $280 and I will probably get another $350 for the rest of my old system. I would say $850 is well worth the upgrade.

I would say if you are even considering going to small bookshelves then you should definitely give the design 4’s an audition. It is actually kind of a let down now. I am so satisfied with my system that I really can’t think of an upgrade that I want right now. I am sure that Rotel will come up with something that will change my mind down the road. For now I am definitely a satisfied ERA customer!

ERA is henceforth to be known as the anti-bose. ;)

Yes I definitely consider them the anti-bose. However, it is kind of sad because I have financed almost all of my ERA purchases by selling my old Bose speakers. Some where out there someone is actually paying almost as much for my used Bose speakers as I am paying for my new ERA speakers. That is just plain sad! I will just have to go listen to my new ERA system to cheer me up.

Some where out there someone is actually paying almost as much for my used Bose speakers as I am paying for my new ERA speakers. That is just plain sad!

How can you sleep at night? :)

After another day with the 4's (and the wife away for a couple of hours) all I can say is that I'm one happy customer. This is no joke, I was hearing things in songs that I had never heard before. This, in some of my favorite albums that I had listened to for well over a decade.

It's almost better to listen to them out of view so that your eyes don't play games with your ears. As I mentioned in a previous post, I traded in a pair of Kef Floorstanders. In the Low-Mid to upper range the 4's put them to shame.

I was able to completely finish my calibration today and boy does that make a difference. I calibrated each speaker with an SPL and then went back and fine tuned each speaker at 9 different frequencies with the Yamaha receiver. Like jcclark33 said, I could hear things in one particular LOTR scene that I had never heard before. I have listened to that same scene probably 30 times.

I also did some testing with the receivers THX processing mode. I always thought THX was a gimmick kind of like Bose. However, now I see where it has its benefits. I bought an SD 3 doors down THX DVD from radio shack for $5. I wasn't expecting much from it because it was from Monster. I popped it in after calibrating my system and I must say I was impressed. It actually has two separate tracks(one from the audience perspective and one from the Bands perspective). The audience track was not as good but it really did sound like a concert. The other track sounded more like a studio mix in surround sound.

Then I turned on the THX processing for the DTS track and let me say it blew me away. The THX processing for this particular DVD really made each instrument come alive. So I thought I would try some other sources with THX. Those were actually worse with THX on. So it seems that THX DVDs really do need the THX modes. Now I am Glad my $150 receiver came with THX!

Happy listening!

How many people use more than two ERA speakers? Anyone else have a 5 channel or more setup?

A friend loaned me a few and I tried a full 5.1 ERA setup. The setup was :

Fronts - ERA D5
Center - ERA 5LCR
Rear - ERA D4
ERA10 sub

As for the rest of the gear, I was using a proceed amp-3 (125wpc) for the fronts/center, rotel rb-1050 (80wpc) on the rears, with a lexicon dc-2 processor.

I set the fronts/center/rears to small on the processor with a crossover of 120hz.

I listened to a few cd's, like Sade, Sarah McLaughlan (sp?). A few DVD's, Reservoir Dogs, and LOTR: FOTR (the scene with the cave troll and the balrog). I was very impressed by how well the speakers imaged with minimal setup (I just set them on top of my old speakers). All of the dialog from the center was clear and crisp and all of the speakers blended beautifully.

I was surprised at how well the D5's filled the room. I have a very large room and had not even considered the D5's as mains prior to this. The speakers seemed to be a bit bright, but like I said, they had minimal setup. I'm sure this could have been taken care of with a little tweaking.

Next thing I did was turn off the sub and the setup sounded a bit anemic. So IMO, if you want home theatre or listen to bass heavy music like R&B then you *MUST* have the sub in this setup.

I'm usually using a set of Mirage OM-12's on the front with a Mirage OM-C3 center channel. The ERA's imaged better, and sound a little crisper, especially the center.

I was all set on selling a kidney and buying a set of Aerials for the fronts. However after demoing the ERA's up front, I think that I will be more than happy running an all ERA setup.

A friend loaned me a few and I tried a full 5.1 ERA setup. The setup was :

Fronts - ERA D5
Center - ERA 5LCR
Rear - ERA D4
ERA10 sub

I was all set on selling a kidney and buying a set of Aerials for the fronts. However after demoing the ERA's up front, I think that I will be more than happy running an all ERA setup.

There is a lot of great info there. Thanks for the report. Man that system must have sounded pretty darn good considering how small the speakers are!

Next thing I did was turn off the sub and the setup sounded a bit anemic. So IMO, if you want home theatre or listen to bass heavy music like R&B then you *MUST* have the sub in this setup.

FWIW, I''m not sure I'd agree with this without some caveats. I think particularly in a smaller room, the D5s will do quite well on their own. No, not quite as well as with the sub, but I wouldn't call them "anemic." Even in my fairly large room, they sound pretty full even with the subwoofer off.

That said, to me the D4s would be a "bit anemic" on their own.

My setup is not for HT though.

There is a lot of great info there. Thanks for the report. Man that system must have sounded pretty darn good considering how small the speakers are!

A friend of mine was there when I demoed the setup. He has roughly the same gear as I do however his fronts are Aerial 10's with the Aerial CC3 center. He was quite impressed by how good the ERAs sounded especially considering the size of the room.

Now I'm not trying to say that ERA's are better than Aerials, but I honestly believe that ERA's are the best speaker for the money.

FWIW, I''m not sure I'd agree with this without some caveats. I think particularly in a smaller room, the D5s will do quite well on their own. No, not quite as well as with the sub, but I wouldn't call them "anemic." Even in my fairly large room, they sound pretty full even with the subwoofer off.

That said, to me the D4s would be a "bit anemic" on their own.

My setup is not for HT though.

This is where everyone's taste and ear will come into play. My setup is predominately HT, xbox, and occasional music. Most of my music is R&B/Hip-Hop/Neo-Soul which tends to be *VERY* bass heavy. I do *not* like booming bass that makes my windows rattle. However the music tends to sound flat/anemic if the setup can not produce the right amount of bass as intended. If I listen to music that focuses more on vocals and strings (like Sade, Corinne Bailey Rae, etc.) then they will do very well for my tastes.

If I were in a smaller room and had more time to tinker with speaker placement, I may have been able to pull more bass out of the D5's.

I've had the opportunity to review both the Era Design 4 & 5's, and I can say that they are the real deal as far as quality sound. The 5's in particular are quite unique in that they don't exaggerate the middle frequencies in the least, unlike most all monitors. This gives them a rather individual sonic signature. On top of that, they are quite easy to listen to.

Chalk this up for a win for the good guys in audio, as David Solomon and Jim Spainhour are truly quality people.

How can you sleep at night? :)

Probably well, since the only way most BOSE sheep can be taught is through painful experience.

Just an update on my system.

So I now have the D4s up front the D3s around back, a Yamaha 5790(Actually a decent receiver for $150), and I still have not gotten rid of my Yamaha YST-215 sub woofer(That will change real soon).

I actually sold my Yamaha HTR-5660, 2 Bose 201, and 2 Bose 161 speakers last night for $300. So all told I spent $1750 on the current system and I sold my old system for $580. $1170 is not too shabby for what I have right now. I still need a good sub in the $300 price range though(I am open to a used sub in this price range also). Any good suggestions to match up with the D4s?

HSU has the STF-2 on sale for $319 right now (+ shipping).

Unfortunately, I need a front firing sub because of my wife’s restrictions on where the sub can go. Hsu doesn’t make a front firing do they?

Dave,

Any E.T.A on the new website? Are there some delays?

I have some questions regarding the upcoming towers,

1. ETA?
2. Will they use the exact same drivers as the 5's or at least be voice matched accordingly?
3 Estimated Price?
4. Estimated low frequency extention?

5. Any plans for an updated center to go with the new towers?

I have some questions regarding the upcoming towers,

1. ETA?
2. Will they use the exact same drivers as the 5's or at least be voice matched accordingly?
3 Estimated Price?
4. Estimated low frequency extention?

David already answered all these questions (Summer, yes, 2K, not sure yet).

A friend loaned me a few and I tried a full 5.1 ERA setup. The setup was :

Fronts - ERA D5
Center - ERA 5LCR
Rear - ERA D4
ERA10 sub

As for the rest of the gear, I was using a proceed amp-3 (125wpc) for the fronts/center, rotel rb-1050 (80wpc) on the rears, with a lexicon dc-2 processor.

I set the fronts/center/rears to small on the processor with a crossover of 120hz.

.

Hello All,
Sorry I have been absent.
Nice system! So glad the crossover issue came up. I should have mentioned this earlier as it's one of teh cornerstones of the company.
One of the reasons we wanted to have extended bass response from the sats, was to be able to meet the subwoofer as low as possible.
When a system is crossed over at 80Hz or even higher, the sub is still localizable. Since most sats don't have a strong 80Hz or below presence, it's become common practice to cross over all small speakers at 80Hz...
So if you can choose your crossover, go no higher w/ either 4's or 5's than 60Hz if you have to cross them over at all... If you're running them higher, you're not getting everything the speakers have to offer.

With this said, if you have a D5 system, and you have a good bit of power...PLEASE run the D5's full range. They will naturally roll off in the mid to low 50's. If you have the right power (like the system above, or Arcam, Rotel, big Denons etc) they will rock! If you're not a loud listener, you can do this w/ a mid line receiver.
I know this is contrary to the last 30 years of teaching, but just try it. I promise the speakers can take it.
If the amp clips after that because of extreme volume levels, try crossing them over at 50, then 60 until the amp stops clipping.
If any of you blow a woof doing this, you're on your own!...LOL
just kidding, I would gladly replace it.
Best regards,
David

[/QUOTE]My setup is predominately HT, xbox, and occasional music. Most of my music is R&B/Hip-Hop/Neo-Soul which tends to be *VERY* bass heavy. I do *not* like booming bass that makes my windows rattle. However the music tends to sound flat/anemic if the setup can not produce the right amount of bass as intended. If I listen to music that focuses more on vocals and strings (like Sade, Corinne Bailey Rae, etc.) then they will do very well for my tastes.

If I were in a smaller room and had more time to tinker with speaker placement, I may have been able to pull more bass out of the D5's.[/QUOTE]


Are D5's are full range? If not, try it. If you have enough power for your perferred SPL, they should be pretty full at the mid bottom. You'll still want to use the sub but the 5's should be a good bit more punch.
If they start to distort on the bottom (see post above)
Best regards,
David Solomon

Unfortunately, I need a front firing sub because of my wife’s restrictions on where the sub can go. Hsu doesn’t make a front firing do they?

Dave,

Any E.T.A on the new website? Are there some delays?


Yes, delays as always, but it's about to hatch any day now (which in greek..or web speak probably means a week). We've been working on it non-stop and it looks and works soooo much better than the current site. Hope its soon, I feel like I'm giving birth.
David S

5. Any plans for an updated center to go with the new towers?


The top end of the towers will basically be a D4 and voiced the same, crossed at 350Hz. So the D4 LCR should do a fine job w/ the towers if you configure it as small or cross it over around 60Hz.
For the loud and proud, the D5 will still be in the same family.
One day we may do a dual 5 w/ a 4 mid. We have discussed this but it's pure vaporware for some time now.
David Solomon

Hello All,
Sorry I have been absent.
Nice system! So glad the crossover issue came up. I should have mentioned this earlier as it's one of teh cornerstones of the company.
One of the reasons we wanted to have extended bass response from the sats, was to be able to meet the subwoofer as low as possible.
When a system is crossed over at 80Hz or even higher, the sub is still localizable. Since most sats don't have a strong 80Hz or below presence, it's become common practice to cross over all small speakers at 80Hz...
So if you can choose your crossover, go no higher w/ either 4's or 5's than 60Hz if you have to cross them over at all... If you're running them higher, you're not getting everything the speakers have to offer.


Dave,

I messed with my system calibration a lot yesterday and I came to the same conclusion that you just stated. My system sounded best when crossed over at 40-60 HZ with my D4’s set to full range. I don’t have a great receiver(Yamaha HTR-5790) or a good sub(Yamaha YST-215) so I am really putting a lot on these little ERA speakers. They do just fine. Thanks for the help.

I know that you all sell excellent subs but they are just too far out of my price range. Can you recommend a good sub to compliment the D4’s for around $300?

Dave:
Good to see you're coming up for air. Looking forward to the new site and new products.

Hi all,

I'm really stuck between ERA Design 4 (5.1) and Orb Mod2 (5.1 ) systems... Has anyone audition both? Thoughts? I'm actually mostly worried about the mids as I'm kind of used to Magnepan (MMG and 1.6) open smooth mids and the other worry is clarity and naturality of center dialogue.

I guess it's a sign of bias as I'm asking ERA thread readers about their views...

Thanks!

Movies and TV: 85%
Music: 15%
No receiver/amp yet
Smallish living room (15x25) with two big openings

Hi all,

I'm really stuck between ERA Design 4 (5.1) and Orb Mod2 (5.1 ) systems... Has anyone audition both? Thoughts? I'm actually mostly worried about the mids as I'm kind of used to Magnepan (MMG and 1.6) open smooth mids and the other worry is clarity and naturality of center dialogue.

I guess it's a sign of bias as I'm asking ERA thread readers about their views...

Thanks!

Movies and TV: 85%
Music: 15%
No receiver/amp yet
Smallish living room (15x25) with two big openings

I have not listened to either, but I'm sure the ERA's would blow the orbs away.

Time to chime in as I've spent enough time with the entire ERA product line to make a few points. THESE ARE THE REAL DEAL FOLKS....!!!!....

Drop dead gorgeous finish and build like a tank....albeit a very sexy tank. ;)

The Design 5 Sat is roughly the same size and price as the Dynaudio 42, which I'm also very fond of. The Design 5 sounds every bit as good, but in the looks department? No contest the ERA takes home the gold. Plus, it's wall mountable.

The ERA's are not cheap, but what they can do sound wise and how they will look in one's room must be considered. IMO, I would have no problem spending the extra dough. Plus, the wife is going to love them. ;)

I'm really stuck between ERA Design 4 (5.1) and Orb Mod2 (5.1 ) systems... Has anyone audition both? Thoughts? I'm actually mostly worried about the mids as I'm kind of used to Magnepan (MMG and 1.6) open smooth mids and the other worry is clarity and naturality of center dialogue.

No comparison the ERA sounds as well as looks more natural. The ERA's have a very nice balance sound and the tweeter is very nice and smooth. The mid-bass has a sense of punch to it and seems to be exact and right on time.

Love the product and job well done ERA. :)

Hello

If someone would like to hear the ERA design line in the Tampa Bay area.
Encore Home Entertainment has them. They are first, Audio then Video.
Their address is:

Encore Home Entertainment
1526 Fruitville Rd
Sarasota, FL
34236

Telephone:
(941)906-8474

Phone ahead for times.
:cool:

David (or anyone with knowledge),

The site still does not seem to have a dealer locator. Please help locating a dealer in SE Michigan (zip 48326).

Thanks,
Sam

"The top end of the towers will basically be a D4 "

Just out of curiosity, why not the D5?

"The top end of the towers will basically be a D4 "

Just out of curiosity, why not the D5?

The only difference between the two from a driver perspective is that the D4 has a 4" woofer, and the D5 a 5". So the tower will have the single 4" driver, and two 5". I presume in theory the smaller driver might do slightly better in the mid-range?

"The top end of the towers will basically be a D4 "

Just out of curiosity, why not the D5?



Since we're only asking the 4" driver to drop to 350Hz, it's more than adaquate for SPL. Also with a bit smaller driver, the dispersion pattern is better as well.
The D4 always scores high in the midrange area in the reviews. We just wanted to add a little authority in the bottom end.
David Solomon

thanks, looking forward to them

Dave,

I am in San diego and I wanted to see if there was a shop with the ERA speakers while I am here. Could you let me know what stores have them in this area?

Hello All,
Sorry I have been absent.
Nice system! So glad the crossover issue came up. I should have mentioned this earlier as it's one of teh cornerstones of the company.
One of the reasons we wanted to have extended bass response from the sats, was to be able to meet the subwoofer as low as possible.
When a system is crossed over at 80Hz or even higher, the sub is still localizable. Since most sats don't have a strong 80Hz or below presence, it's become common practice to cross over all small speakers at 80Hz...
So if you can choose your crossover, go no higher w/ either 4's or 5's than 60Hz if you have to cross them over at all... If you're running them higher, you're not getting everything the speakers have to offer.

...

If the amp clips after that because of extreme volume levels, try crossing them over at 50, then 60 until the amp stops clipping.
If any of you blow a woof doing this, you're on your own!...LOL
just kidding, I would gladly replace it.
Best regards,
David

Great advice. I was trying 80-100hz as most people advise and it just wasn't working. I'm currently running my Ayre Ax-7e integrated straight into a B&W ASW300 sub with a crossover of 60hz and the Era 4s just blend right in. Can't wait to get my Ayre CX-7e CDP in the next two weeks and run fully balanced to see what they can truly do (right now just using my $200 DVD player RCA).

Dave,

I am in San diego and I wanted to see if there was a shop with the ERA speakers while I am here. Could you let me know what stores have them in this area?

If you're ever in LA, Sound Factor in Santa Monica has them (just look up B&W dealers in Santa Monica on the B&W website for their contact info).

Dave,

I am in San diego and I wanted to see if there was a shop with the ERA speakers while I am here. Could you let me know what stores have them in this area?
Same question re: NYC.

I tried emailing offlist; I guess he's busy with the new site etc.

Ok so I am in San Diego and I had some time to kill today. I decided to go to Stereo Design and run the Design 4s through a series of tests. Let me first say that Steve Martin at Stereo Design was extremely helpful and he basically gave me the freedom to test however I wanted to set them up.

My main goal was to find out if these speakers could be easily pushed by a mainstream receiver(110 watts to 140 watts) at moderate to high levels(up to about 85-90 DB). I really wanted to see how much of a difference an external amplifier would make over a standalone receiver.

I hooked up a pioneer elite VSX-84TXSi receiver(140 Watts) to the design 4 speakers and a Rotel CD player. I was playing some Pink Floyd. I noticed that this pioneer was fairly similar to my Yamaha HTR-5970 receiver(110 Watts). It seemed a little fuller but not much. Definitely not worth the $1350 price difference. However, it just did not impress me like the time I demoed the Design 4s with a $2500 250 watt standalone amp.

Next I hooked up a Rotel 1070(120 watt 2 channel stereo amp) to the pre-outs of the pioneer. I instantly heard the difference! The sound was much fuller and the bass really came alive. I was impressed almost as much as when I had heard the speakers on a 250 watt amp.

I finally have come to the conclusion that these speakers really, really, really need an external amplifier if you want to crank the volume up and fill a decent size room. Now the $1000 Rotel is out of my budget but the $500 Emotiva 7 channel amp below looks like to good of a deal to pass up. I am going to purchase this amp as soon as I have the funds and I will let you know what I think of it. In the meantime if you are thinking about buying these speakers I would strongly suggest budgeting for a 120+ watt external amplifier.

Oh yea, I also tried a pair of $900 B&W CM1 speakers with the same setup. They really didn’t sound any better. They had a little more bass but it just sounded too boomy. I really didn’t like them.

Here is the website for the store I went to called Stereo Design. Real nice place. It had lots of different rooms to test in.
http://www.stereodesign.com/

Here is the Emotiva amp I plan on buying
http://www.emotiva.com/lpa1.html

Here is the receiver I tried. I really didn’t like it.
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/product/details/0,,2076_310069789_310985784_tab=B,00.html?compName=PNA_V3_Pr oductDetailsComponent

Great advice. I was trying 80-100hz as most people advise and it just wasn't working. I'm currently running my Ayre Ax-7e integrated straight into a B&W ASW300 sub with a crossover of 60hz and the Era 4s just blend right in. Can't wait to get my Ayre CX-7e CDP in the next two weeks and run fully balanced to see what they can truly do (right now just using my $200 DVD player RCA).

Just wanted to follow up. The speakers didn't sound right with a thick veil over them when through the sub's cross over. Took the sub out of the chain and all is well, in fact I prefer the bass out of the Design 4s to that of the sub for music. The Ayre 60w allows them to play quite loud but I'm still not sure about the dynamics. I'm picking up the CX-7e today and will see if running balanced through a quality CDP makes a difference in that regard.

I finally have come to the conclusion that these speakers really, really, really need an external amplifier if you want to crank the volume up and fill a decent size room.

It's not a volume thing really, it's a question of quality. Receivers just aren't going to be able to compete against quality amps, not because they don't have enough watts, but because their amplification is subpar in relation to that of a quality amplifier. I don't know about 85-95db but the 100w Sony I was using played plenty loud; however bringing in the Ayre, which is really just an amp, transformed the speakers and they remained able to play at high volumes, and that was just 60w.

Rotel, NAD, etc. are high current amps. Their wattage ratings are deceiving. They deliver more than most expect from published wattage ratings. A Rotel, B&K or Arcam receiver should make a difference and provide enough power unless you are trying an exceptionally large room with inefficient speakers.
Separate amps can make a difference over the more gutsy receivers, but unless you are driving particularly difficult loads most of the differences will be small, but noticeable to some audiophiles, especially with the best 2 channel recordings, in my experience anyway.
Era claims they use Arcam as a reference receiver. You would have to pay around $1500 to get an amp of the same level of the ones used in a B&K 507 receiver.
Of course, there is no ceiling on what you could spend for an amp if you need even more power with no sacrifice in SQ.

Any suggestions as to what in-ceiling surrounds might be a decent match for a set of these as front speakers?

Room design, unfortunately, dictates it.

Well, just did an initial 20 min listening session and so far not impressed. Of course the CDP isn't broken in if that's supposed to make a difference and the amp and CDP were right out of standby but female vocals sounded no better than with my $200 DVD player. I'll wait it out for a week but it seems that I'm just deluding myself if I think the Design 4s, while fantastic speakers for the money, can compete with Nautilus 804s :( I'll probably set up an audition at my B&W dealer next weekend with my components/cabling and see if it's the speaker that's holding my system back or something else.

With all due respect, you don't think a pair of Era Design 4 speakers 'approaching' a well reviewed $3000+ speaker system is quite an accomplishment?

Any suggestions as to what in-ceiling surrounds might be a decent match for a set of these as front speakers?

Room design, unfortunately, dictates it.

I generally find it best to go directly to the designer/manufacturer of a speaker system with these kind of questions. Only because it makes it difficult to get valid opinions unless someone has the same listening environment as yourself.
Some companies like SVS will even have you fax them dimensions of your room, etc. to do an evaluation. Can't beat that kind of expertise unless you are such an expert yourself.

With all due respect, you don't think a pair of Era Design 4 speakers 'approaching' a well reviewed $3000+ speaker system is quite an accomplishment?

Of course it is, the boys at Era have done something that I personally thought impossible, make a $600 speaker that I can live with and enjoy :)

Like I said, I'm sure I'm being completely unfair. I haven't found out what the issue is, as this set up is very different from my last setup. While I thought my previous system was neutral, I'm now being told it was warm, which makes me think it might just be the upstream components (i.e., the Ayre vs the Wadia as a source). The one thing that is bothering me is the unclear female vocals, which makes me think it may be my room acoustics; it's the next thing on my list before speakers. Again, probably unfair, but a couple of other things that are bothering me - piano doesn't have the proper weight and the vocals have a veil over them.

Don't take the above as criticisms, frankly, for the price they can't be faulted; I'm just pointing out there is a limit to their positives.

Well, just did an initial 20 min listening session and so far not impressed. Of course the CDP isn't broken in if that's supposed to make a difference and the amp and CDP were right out of standby but female vocals sounded no better than with my $200 DVD player. I'll wait it out for a week but it seems that I'm just deluding myself if I think the Design 4s, while fantastic speakers for the money, can compete with Nautilus 804s :( I'll probably set up an audition at my B&W dealer next weekend with my components/cabling and see if it's the speaker that's holding my system back or something else.

What don't you like? Nautilus speakers have an odd sound to them and once you get used to it, other speakers seem "lacking". Not because of what they lack, but because of what they don't add. B&Ws especially over emphasize female vocals and add lots of resonance in the piano range.

I have some ERAs coming, thanks to David, so I'll take'em for a spin compared to more affordable speakers. I like the design a lot and I have a nice niche for them assuming they do what people are saying.

What don't you like? Nautilus speakers have an odd sound to them and once you get used to it, other speakers seem "lacking". Not because of what they lack, but because of what they don't add. B&Ws especially over emphasize female vocals and add lots of resonance in the piano range.

Well, if that's the case, then it explains why I like them so much; it's the two things I care about more than anything, female vocals and piano. We'll see next weekend when I take my Ayre gear to the dealer and hook them up to 804s.

I have some ERAs coming, thanks to David, so I'll take'em for a spin compared to more affordable speakers. I like the design a lot and I have a nice niche for them assuming they do what people are saying.

Oh, you'll be quite pleased I'm sure. Just fantastic for the money. Like I said above, I don't have any criticisms at the price range, only heaps of praise. If what you've said above is accurate then they're maybe even better than the 804s as far as neutrality, but maybe that's not what I'm looking for??? I'll update next week.

Originally Posted by Alimentall
I have some ERAs coming, thanks to David, so I'll take'em for a spin compared to more affordable speakers. I like the design a lot and I have a nice niche for them assuming they do what people are saying.

Wow, I'll go out on a limb and say in advance that you'll give the impression in your comming comments that they don't sound as good to you as comporable NHT, but that's just a guess.
;)

Colored, not as neutral, bass hump, not as detailed, nice if you like that "warm" sound....sorry I didn't mean to start your review early.... :)

Well, if that's the case, then it explains why I like them so much; it's the two things I care about more than anything, female vocals and piano. We'll see next weekend when I take my Ayre gear to the dealer and hook them up to 804s..

I suspect they're a bit warmer and softer sounding than the 804s. I mainly listen to male vocals and the Nautilus speakers tend to tip up the top of the voice and tend to not sound as full in the lower mids. I've noticed that many B&W owners are primarily female vocal fans. I notice on duets that the female is predominant. Or for instance, Sade is put too far ahead of percussion and throws off the balance a bit (but hey, I'm a drummer!)

Wow, I'll go out on a limb and say in advance that you'll give the impression in your comming comments that they don't sound as good to you as comporable NHT, but that's just a guess.
;)

Hahahaha. You meant to say "but better than B&Ws"? :p

Colored, not as neutral, bass hump, not as detailed, nice if you like that "warm" sound....sorry I didn't mean to start your review early.... :)

Actually, that's almost exactly what I'm seeking - neutral to warm. A little softer in the treble (all I do is metal domes), a little richer in the midrange, more "furnitury" in appearance, a nice competitor for the B&W CM "elegant lifestyle" type product. It seems like it would make a nice compliment to what I sell. I tend to personally prefer NHT to PSBs, but I can't take an NHT and put it on a Sony receiver and make the Sony sound super human like the PSBs will do. And PSBs squarely hit the B&W/Paradigm crowd dead on. So I'm hoping that the ERAs will sort of give me more of that Sonus Faber kind of thing. I'm actually going to sideline the NHT Classic Two to make way for these if they do what I want.

Don't take the above as criticisms, frankly, for the price they can't be faulted; I'm just pointing out there is a limit to their positives.

I don't really, was just seeking your advice actually as to how you would grade them at this point. Do you think the Design 5 would put you closer to a goal?
What I struggle with is getting a well reviewed kit speaker that I might outgrow. Then having to spend 2X or 3X to get anything better.
I am not even convinced the B&W would be my choice, but in this case makes a useful yardstick for comparison purposes.

I generally find it best to go directly to the designer/manufacturer of a speaker system with these kind of questions.
Well, I was sort of hoping David would pipe up. ;)

I haven't settled on buying Era yet, so I'm not sure I feel comfortable calling their home office for advice.

I haven't settled on buying Era yet, so I'm not sure I feel comfortable calling their home office for advice.

It's actually a great time to call.

I have some ERAs coming, thanks to David, so I'll take'em for a spin compared to more affordable speakers. I like the design a lot and I have a nice niche for them assuming they do what people are saying.

The Design 4's are nice. We joined up with ERA as we also had a niche to fill.....Bo$e replacement. :D

Am I reading this thread correctly that someone is replacing the 804's with the Design 4's? Uh, I'm not a fan of B&W's, but with all do respect, in no way shape or form will the ERA's come anywhere close to the B&W 804 or 805.

After spending some time now with the Design 4 and 5. I favor the Design 5 as it has a fuller sound. If I could compare one speaker to the Design 5 it would be the Dynaudio Focus 42. Similar size and sound, but the cabinet finish is 100% better than the Audience Series. Truly the best finished small speaker I've ever seen. Definitely the best built by a wide margin. I haven't heard a better alternative to the Design 4 in the same siz.

Are you selling ERAs Jake? What do you think of them, compared to, say, a CM1? Remember that I think B&Ws are a bit "too detailed" so to speak.

I heard Dynaudio Audience about 10 years ago and liked them, but they really needed to have the grills yanked off to sound balanced. The new ones are supposed to be brighter, but I felt like, at $1800/pr, or something like that, the value wasn't there. That sound at $600/pr would be fantastic.

in no way shape or form will the ERA's come anywhere close to the B&W 804 or 805..

Sold, I'll take twenty!!! :)

Sold, I'll take twenty!!!

I'm sure that would make the ERA guys happy! :D

We are currently showing the Design 4 & 5 Systems with Subs as well as the On-wall Plasma Speakers. The on-walls are gorgeous. Haven't got them installed yet, so I don't know how they will sound.

The new ones are supposed to be brighter, but I felt like, at $1800/pr, or something like that, the value wasn't there.

Brighter? Not Dyn's characteristic. They are pretty laid back and requir gobbs of power, but when mated with appropriate amplification, they are wonderful. $1800, that would be the new Dynaudio Focus 140 monitor, which is an OUSTANDING speaker. The only competitor to the Focus 140 we have is the PSB Platinum M2, the Aerial 5B. The Focus 140 to my ears is a much better speaker over the M2, but the Aerial 5B is pretty hard to beat IMO.

Yeah, I'm not thrilled with PSB's fiberglass drivers. A bit to "energetic" for me. But people hear them and go "WOW!!!". Actually, rather like the B&Ws in many ways, but a bit better value for those who like that type of sound.

... The one thing that is bothering me is the unclear female vocals, which makes me think it may be my room acoustics; it's the next thing on my list before speakers. Again, probably unfair, but a couple of other things that are bothering me - piano doesn't have the proper weight and the vocals have a veil over them...

This comment about veiling sounds a little strange to me based on my experience. I'd explore more the acoustics angle before making any conclusions.

I haven't heard a better alternative to the Design 4 in the same siz.
Disregarding Bass output, the need for a better, more substantial front end, and possibly volume level in a larger room, I'd agree, they are a force to be reckoned with. My brother and I have been bouncing around the 5's (all around) as one possible new set-up .

Are you selling ERAs Jake? What do you think of them, compared to, say, a CM1? Remember that I think B&Ws are a bit "too detailed" so to speak.


Well, I don't find the B&W's "too" detailed but I, and many others, find the CM1's a tad less reveiling in the top end, and the Era's even a bit less so . This causes me to think they are a touch more laid back, but some say that they find them to be a touch more neutral.
Now I work with VETERANS in this industry and we employ about 42 people at my store and we used to carry Totems, so we have some who like that sound.
We obviously have B&W fans at work.
We have Revel Fans.
We have a few fans of old Kef and Dyn, etc.
But the Eras are a CROWD PLEASER, which is unusual with this crowd.

We are currently showing the Design 4 & 5 Systems with Subs as well as the On-wall Plasma Speakers. The on-walls are gorgeous. Haven't got them installed yet, so I don't know how they will sound.
I was worried that perhps they would loose something due to the Aluminum cabinets, but all of us loved them, and after CES one of my co-workers whose opinion I value quite highly said that these will replace our mythos on-wall sales due to the quality improvement. I am anxious to head to head them against the FPM's from B&W.
I already do a big business in Design4LCR's in piano black on-wall flanking plasmas, and so does my brother.
Yeah, I'm not thrilled with PSB's fiberglass drivers. A bit to "energetic" for me. But people hear them and go "WOW!!!". Actually, rather like the B&Ws in many ways, but a bit better value for those who like that type of sound.
Strande, because I've compared the two brands fairly often and have had little regard for the PSB's in the last few years and don't think they are all that similar. We have a semi-local dealer of them and we eat his lunch, even though he is the lowball king .

This comment about veiling sounds a little strange to me based on my experience.

Me too.

I don't really, was just seeking your advice actually as to how you would grade them at this point. Do you think the Design 5 would put you closer to a goal?
What I struggle with is getting a well reviewed kit speaker that I might outgrow. Then having to spend 2X or 3X to get anything better.
I am not even convinced the B&W would be my choice, but in this case makes a useful yardstick for comparison purposes.

Probably not, considering as I understand it the design 5s are essentially the 4s with a slightly larger woofer. To be fair, I don't know at this point if it's just the speakers, I'm starting to lean towards the CDP. I'm auditioing the 804s this Saturday I hope and will probably be able to determine at that point if it's the speakers, something else or a combination.

Probably not, considering as I understand it the design 5s are essentially the 4s with a slightly larger woofer. To be fair, I don't know at this point if it's just the speakers, I'm starting to lean towards the CDP. I'm auditioing the 804s this Saturday I hope and will probably be able to determine at that point if it's the speakers, something else or a combination.
Why not the 805"s?

Am I reading this thread correctly that someone is replacing the 804's with the Design 4's? Uh, I'm not a fan of B&W's, but with all do respect, in no way shape or form will the ERA's come anywhere close to the B&W 804 or 805.



lol, not quite. I had to sell off my old system which had 804 speakers. I decided that after six years of ****** TV speakers, I would get back into 2ch audio. Tried to go the cheap route as these boards have tons of people who keep telling you everything sounds the same. imo that's not even close to accurate but that's a discussion for another day. Anyway, started out with a Sony receiver and the Design 4s. Receiver wasn't doing it for me, so I moved to an Ayre AX-7e integrated and Ayre CX-7e CDP. I'm starting to realize that I lucked into the perfect sound for me with my first system and that if I want the same sound I'm likely going to have to use the same components.

And for the record, again, I know it's completely unfair and delusional to compare the Design 4s against the 804 but that should tell you about something about the 4s.

Strande, because I've compared the two brands fairly often and have had little regard for the PSB's in the last few years and don't think they are all that similar. We have a semi-local dealer of them and we eat his lunch, even though he is the lowball king .

Huh. Except for the fact that I like the Image series a little more than the 600 series for a little less money, they design is so similar, they're almost like clones in most models. The Platinum T8s sound very much like how I remember the Nautilus 800 except with bigger soundstaging. Tight, punchy bass, somewhat forward midrange, sparkly treble, very powerful sounding. Woven fiberglass is very similar in many ways to woven Kevlar.

I prefer and mainly push the Image/Alphas because I think that's where they shine a bit more and provide value for people with cheap receivers and electronics. I'd like to see them change the designs of more than a few models and am going to work towards that end, but all the people who dislike NHT and love B&W come in and go "wow, I *like* these!!!"

I know what you mean though in general, I guess. The ironic thing is that my version of "little regard" comes from the fact that they have become *too* similar to B&Ws :)

This comment about veiling sounds a little strange to me based on my experience. I'd explore more the acoustics angle before making any conclusions.

Actually, I've been thinking about it and I misspoke; it's not veiled. The vocals are clear, it's that the vocals are placed slightly behind the stage as with most CDPs. What I really like is the intimacy of my old Wadia 850 where the vocals were placed slightly in front of the stage, as if the singer was giving me a personal concert. Anyway, have either a Wadia 581 (if I can trade in my Ayre) or a Wadia 521 (with CX-7e as transport) coming in for audition in about two weeks time hopefully so I can determine whether I'm right regarding the above or whether it's a combination of speakers and source or whether I'm just losing it altogether :)

As above, the room acoustics are the first thing I'm dealing with as I have concrete walls and tile floors (although I now have most of it covered by rugs) and I'm set up with the room width wise; basically, all kinds of no-nos but I'm having a couple of pros take a look.

Why not the 805"s?

I'm just not enthralled with the idea of such expensive non-floorstanding speakers (not to mention the no lube job B&W gives you on the stand pricing). However, it wouldn't hurt to try them while I'm checking out the 804s; thanks for the suggestion.

One of the things that B&Ws do so well from a sales stand point is that they make other speakers seem more veiled or lacking in detail than they really are. Paper and treated paper will typically have a very small veil but will have a very controlled and well behaved sound. Poly is pretty similar, but will generally take on a slightly warmer tonal balance. Metals and ceramics are much more resolving, but then they can be more fatiguing if you don't use them properly. Kevlar, fiberglass and carbon have a very energetic top end and tend to resonate along with the music. They have good properties in being light, but they do add in some extra harmonics and tend to create that more forward female vocal that you like. There's a very interesting article on the subject here: http://ai.kaist.ac.kr/~suh/DIY/feedback.html You can actually get a basic idea of what a speaker will sound like just based on the driver complement, assuming that accuracy is a goal of the designer and what strengths and weaknesses it's likely to have. The ERAs appeal to me because I suspect they will be reminiscent of a few old favorites of mine.


BTW, speakers behave better on a wide wall if you can keep you and them away from the front/back walls.

PS, Bar, your electronics couldn't possibly be a weak spot! Keep working the setup/acoustics angle. It won't morph them into something they're not, but it will get the most out of them!

One of the things that B&Ws do so well from a sales stand point is that they make other speakers seem more veiled or lacking in detail than they really are. Paper and treated paper will typically have a very small veil but will have a very controlled and well behaved sound. Poly is pretty similar, but will generally take on a slightly warmer tonal balance. Metals and ceramics are much more resolving, but then they can be more fatiguing if you don't use them properly. Kevlar, fiberglass and carbon have a very energetic top end and tend to resonate along with the music. They have good properties in being light, but they do add in some extra harmonics and tend to create that more forward female vocal that you like. There's a very interesting article on the subject here: http://ai.kaist.ac.kr/~suh/DIY/feedback.html You can actually get a basic idea of what a speaker will sound like just based on the driver complement, assuming that accuracy is a goal of the designer and what strengths and weaknesses it's likely to have. The ERAs appeal to me because I suspect they will be reminiscent of a few old favorites of mine.


BTW, speakers behave better on a wide wall if you can keep you and them away from the front/back walls.

Thanks for the article, really interesting. Can't wait to see what happens with the B&Ws.

Interesting comment on the walls, everyone I've spoken to tells me I should be set up going down the length of the room. Any links with regard to that?

PS, Bar, your electronics couldn't possibly be a weak spot! Keep working the setup/acoustics angle. It won't morph them into something they're not, but it will get the most out of them!

That's what I thought when I bought it all and to be honest, I'm really disappointed and discouraged at this point (6k in and not happy is a bad place to be, the CDP is making me feel like I wasted 3k) . That's also why I'm looking forward to the dealer audition, it will not only tell me whether the speakers are an issue, but also whether the acoustics are an issue as I might just bring along my Design 4s to compare (and hopefully make the dealer stand up and pay attention to Era) :) Plus, the CDP will be 'broken in' if that matters as it's playing continuously until then.

I prefer and mainly push the Image/Alphas because I think that's where they shine a bit more and provide value for people with cheap receivers and electronics.
Agreed
I'd like to see them change the designs of more than a few models and am going to work towards that end, but all the people who dislike NHT and love B&W come in and go "wow, I *like* these!!!"
Well, I'd agree that they are more similar than the NHT.

I'm just not enthralled with the idea of such expensive non-floorstanding speakers (not to mention the no lube job B&W gives you on the stand pricing). However, it wouldn't hurt to try them while I'm checking out the 804s; thanks for the suggestion.
Your welcome, but there are many good stands out there . There are a few expensive monitor/bookshelf speakers that I feel cost more than $1k and are worth it, the 805's some Totems and Revels come to mind.

One of the things that B&Ws do so well from a sales stand point is that they make other speakers seem more veiled or lacking in detail than they really are
Others would argue that it shows that some speakers ARE, in fact, more veiled or lacking in detail, auditioning personally is sooo important.

Paper and treated paper will typically have a very small veil but will have a very controlled and well behaved sound. Poly is pretty similar, but will generally take on a slightly warmer tonal balance. Metals and ceramics are much more resolving, but then they can be more fatiguing if you don't use them properly. Kevlar, fiberglass and carbon have a very energetic top end and tend to resonate along with the music. They have good properties in being light, but they do add in some extra harmonics and tend to create that more forward female vocal that you like.
All these generalities contain grains of truth, but good designers can correct for them and/or incorporate these characteristics into great overall designs. Also, some slight modifications to the make-up of the driver can radicly change these characteristics or remove them altogether.

You can actually get a basic idea of what a speaker will sound like just based on the driver complement, assuming that accuracy is a goal of the designer and what strengths and weaknesses it's likely to have.
I fear too many people take these attitudes into an audition and come away with the results they expected due to preconceived biases.

PS, Bar, your electronics couldn't possibly be a weak spot!
While they are MUCH less likely to be a concern than the room or the speaker, they can occaisionally be a weak point, as he has already discovered.

DAMN, I just looked at transport prices and they are disgusting. I thought why not check out Esoteric as I love TEAC and how much could a transport really cost anyway; BIG mistake (the new TEAC transport is 3k raw unit price, no wonder Wadia took a pass on that. The Ayre CX-7e apparently uses a transport from DVS???).

Anyway, if I go with the Wadia 521 decoder then I should also be able to run my DVD player (with RCA to BNC adapter) and XBox/HD DVD (Toslink) through it's DAC which should be a pretty nice bonus (my shite 3rd world ghetto sub 480 resolution satellite with even poorer audio is beyond help as there's no digital out on any boxes out here, not that it would make any type of difference). Of course that's assuming that the CX-7e/521 sounds as good as the 581; I won't sacrifice music for the other stuff, but if I get it as a bonus, why not.

Either way I'll at least get to update on how the Design 4s do with different sources (that's worth 5-6k right... right ?!?).

Originally Posted by Alimentall
I have some ERAs coming, thanks to David, so I'll take'em for a spin compared to more affordable speakers. I like the design a lot and I have a nice niche for them assuming they do what people are saying.
I would like to add my fondness for Dave, he is a genuinely nice guy and very passionate about this business and music. Since we picked up the line I've talked with him in the store about 4 times and come away thinking we should push Musical Fidelity to just to get him more business. I am glad to see his involvement here and am interested in seeing the expansion of the linewith the new products (on-walls) and the promise of more things to come (floorstanding). I would like to point out that while his subs are not the type of product that you see people here gravitating towards, from a "musical" perspective, I enjoy them very much and find them to be quite "Rel-like", and they compliment the speakers wonderfully in terms of beauty, build quality , flexability and SQ. I hope this company thrives like it ought to.

Same question re: NYC.

I tried emailing offlist; I guess he's busy with the new site etc.
Hi,

Guys, Sorry for the delay. With the traveling/web site and "buck stops here" issues, it has been difficult at best to keep up. I'll try to bet better in the future.
Looks like the page is growing much faster than I would have antisipated.
Please don't hesitate calling me if you need a quick answer 770-649=9544 or write@ davids@signalpathint.com.

Sound By Singer carries the speakers in NYC, Harvey carries the D4..

David Solomon

Currently, The Triad InCeiling Gold/6 Omni is my favorite match w/ the D4/D5. We will have an in-ceiling similar to this speaker at some point this year...probably toward the end.
Best wishes,
David

Has anyone tried 5 D3Sats (or 4 of them with one LCR) in a system?

Hi all,

I am new here but read a bit of this thread on ERA speakers which I also listened to at AudioAdvice in Raleigh, NC. I was certainly impressed by them. I have two questions.

1. Has any one listened to the D5/D5LCR 5.1setup (Audio advice did not have the D5LCR and I only listened in a 2.1 setup) with an Outlaw 990?
2. I also listened to the Genelec HT206 pair side by side with the D5 pair. I thought they were almost the same except for a bit of bass advantage for the HT206 though the Genelecs are much pricier. I'd love to hear from some one who has heard a complete 5.1 system of both Genelecs side by side with D5s. How do they compare ? With the Genelec HTS3B sub or the ERA sub10 in the setup how does it change the equation?

TIA,

bakki

1. Has any one listened to the D5/D5LCR 5.1setup (Audio advice did not have the D5LCR and I only listened in a 2.1 setup) with an Outlaw 990?


No , but I've heard several sets with brands like Pioneer Elite, Denon, Integra, and h/k, as well as with Rotel, and Arcam.
The 5 LCR's I have also used as mains.

No , but I've heard several sets with brands like Pioneer Elite, Denon, Integra, and h/k, as well as with Rotel, and Arcam.
The 5 LCR's I have also used as mains.

Would you please describe your experiences? Was there a significant difference in the audio quality among all the brands you mention? AudioAdvice recommends Lexicon for the ERA setup. Is this necessary if there are other brands which perform as well but are less expensive?

Just my 2 cents, but I think that good power is more important than the processor.

I have been using mirage om-12's as my fronts. I had a sony 333es receiver driving them. They sounded ok. I added a proceed AMP 3 (3-channel amp) and they sounded much better. I then replaced the sony with a lexicon dc-2 and noticed a small improvement, but not nearly as big as adding the amp.

So then I used the sony to power the ERA D4's in the rear (still using lexicon as processor) and they sounded fine. The sony died and I replaced it with a little rotel 1050 and the ERA's really woke up.

Again, just my opinion, but I don't think that something like a lexicon is required to enjoy the ERA's. However you *DO* need good power to really make them shine. Also, if you are really interested in a lexicon, ask the guys at Audio Advice what they have available in the used room :) They have a lot of stuff that isn't in that little room by the service desk.

I'll chime in.

I personally recommend quality amplification for all speakers. As with most speakers and the ERA's are no exception only get better with added power.

They also sound great with a receiver, but they really come into their own with separates. I use Marantz and Yamaha only here at my shop. They have no problems driving the ERA's and both these receivers are very musical pieces.

I took the Design 5 sats into our Parasound Halo room and WOW did they really shine. I could almost swear I was hearing the Aerial 5b.

David......Nice job on the website, it's finally up and going. Woo-hoo!

David......Nice job on the website, it's finally up and going. Woo-hoo!

Where is their new website? I still only see the one at http://www.signalpathint.com/framesetEra.htm

Refresh your browser and go to www.signalpathint.com.

Yes, for the record, as one who complained a lot about the old site: nice job! It's really well-designed, and also standards-compliant. Sort of like the speakers themselves actually; nice looking, and solidly designed and built.

Yes, for the record, as one who complained a lot about the old site: nice job! It's really well-designed, and also standards-compliant. Sort of like the speakers themselves actually; nice looking, and solidly designed and built.


Hi Guys, Thanks a million. I feel as though I've just given birth. Here's my new baby www.signalpathint.com . Hope you like it. There will be a few kinks for the first few weeks, but we'll get sorted out soon.

Thanks for all of the input I have received regarding the site. I understand that it might take 24-48 hours before everyone will see the site.

Best wishes,
David Solomon

Damn it! I tried everything. I reloaded cache, I tried every browser I still see the image in the attached .zip file. What gives?

Just my 2 cents, but I think that good power is more important than the processor.

I added a proceed AMP 3 (3-channel amp) and they sounded much better. I then replaced the sony with a lexicon dc-2 and noticed a small improvement, but not nearly as big as adding the amp.

The sony died and I replaced it with a little rotel 1050 and the ERA's really woke up.

Again, just my opinion, but I don't think that something like a lexicon is required to enjoy the ERA's. However you *DO* need good power to really make them shine. Also, if you are really interested in a lexicon, ask the guys at Audio Advice what they have available in the used room :) They have a lot of stuff that isn't in that little room by the service desk.


Straight from the site:
"The small print: When a speaker with “real” bass response is designed in such a small box, it requires more power than a typical speaker its size. So we suggest an amp or receiver with a good power supply with at least 75 watts or more per channel."

Thought it might important to some to explain this.
era speakers have a natural roll off on the bottom end. We did sacrifice efficiency for bandwidth. But, this is why they sound like they do.
Most speakers this size have a bass hump somewhere in the mid-bass region. This allows them to be more efficient and play louder and give the illusion of bass, but they also roll off very quickly, forcing you to cross the sub higher. This causes phase shift and un-natural bass response.
We decided to take the high road and have drivers designed that could take the heat and abuse it takes to get a driver this small to go so low. This takes real power, but as a result, you should be able to attain audiophile performance in such a small box if you have good power.

Many budget receivers rate power @ 1k... This means across the entire bandwidth, the true power could be 45-50 watts per channel. They all want a way to say 100 watts per channel.

If you're receiver is rated like the example below (honest), you should be fine to run the era's full range...
Example 75 wpc (or higher) x 5 or (7) all channels driven 20-20,000 +-1dB.
This kind of spec should start at about $800 and above. I don't have all receiver specs, nor have I used them all, so there could very well be exceptions to this...I'm just not aware.

Avoid limited bandwidth specs as they are only there to manipulate.

Hope this helps,
David

Damn it! I tried everything. I reloaded cache, I tried every browser I still see the image in the attached .zip file. What gives?


Hi mpg,
I don't understand why, but my web person said that it could take up to 48 hours to spread to all of the servers in the country...(sigh)
David

If you're receiver is rated like the example below (honest), you should be fine to run the era's full range...
Example 75 wpc (or higher) x 5 or (7) all channels driven 20-20,000 +-1dB.
This kind of spec should start at about $800 and above. I don't have all receiver specs, nor have I used them all, so there could very well be exceptions to this...I'm just not aware.



great info - thanks, David. I've got the era 5s, cm1s, Dali Ikon2s and Dynaudio 42s on my short list. I'll be powering them with an Arcam Avr100.

if anyone's got any insight into these, I'd be happy to hear.

I listened to the d4s when i demo'd my Arcam CD73 and was very impressed. I bought the CD Player. Maybe i should have bought the speakers instead?

great info - thanks, David. I've got the era 5s, cm1s, Dali Ikon2s and Dynaudio 42s on my short list. I'll be powering them with an Arcam Avr100.

if anyone's got any insight into these, I'd be happy to hear.

I listened to the d4s when i demo'd my Arcam CD73 and was very impressed. I bought the CD Player. Maybe i should have bought the speakers instead?


All fine speakers. The AVR100 should work well w/ any of these.
Glad to be in such good company.
Best regards!
David

Hi mpg,
I don't understand why, but my web person said that it could take up to 48 hours to spread to all of the servers in the country...(sigh)
David

No problem Dave.

(Waits patiently twitling thumbs!)

I have to disagree with you on the fact that a 75 watt receiver rated across the full bandwidth will “be fine to run the era's full range”. I tried my Yamaha HTR-5660(85 watts full bandwidth) with the Design 4’s and I was not impressed. It struggled to drive all 5 speakers at levels around 85-90 DB. Heck even my newer HTR-5790(110 watts full bandwidth) struggles at high volumes.

When I tested the 120 watt rotel amp the other day I saw that these speakers really shine with a separate amplifier. With that being said if you are listening at normal volumes then just about any receiver will do. However, I venture to guess that most of us don’t listen at normal volumes.

One question also. If I have D4’s as mains and center speakers and D3’s as surrounds, should I set all of them to full range? Or should I just set the front three to full range? Or maybe just the mains to full range?

All fine speakers...
Glad to be in such good company.


well-deserved. You may remember we traded emails a little while ago when I first started researching and the Bay Area store you recommended was a great resource, so thanks for your help.

Would you please describe your experiences? Was there a significant difference in the audio quality among all the brands you mention? AudioAdvice recommends Lexicon for the ERA setup. Is this necessary if there are other brands which perform as well but are less expensive?
Yes the Rotel and Arcam make the speakers noticably better performing, I'm sure the Lex would as well but I have had the pleasure yet.

great info - thanks, David. I've got the era 5s, cm1s, Dali Ikon2s and Dynaudio 42s on my short list. I'll be powering them with an Arcam Avr100.

if anyone's got any insight into these, I'd be happy to hear.

Yes, spend a bit of time with all of them (nice list), you should certainly be very happy with at least one of them. I have my pecking order but it is too personal, and in the abscense of comparison, they are all quite good.
Have fun, let us know. I envy you.

No problem Dave.

I have to disagree with you on the fact that a 75 watt receiver rated across the full bandwidth will “be fine to run the era's full range”. I tried my Yamaha HTR-5660(85 watts full bandwidth) with the Design 4’s and I was not impressed. It struggled to drive all 5 speakers at levels around 85-90 DB. Heck even my newer HTR-5790(110 watts full bandwidth) struggles at high volumes.

One question also. If I have D4’s as mains and center speakers and D3’s as surrounds, should I set all of them to full range? Or should I just set the front three to full range? Or maybe just the mains to full range?

Hi mpg,
I have not listened to all receivers w/ these speakers...I knew there would be exceptions (see above). I'm in your camp, I dont listen at "normal" levels either, so I personally require a good bit more power.
Having said that, the $1500 Rotel 1050 that we used at CES a couple of years ago (75x5) worked very well. This receiver pushed them in a 30x50 room. And quite loud too.

Personally, I use the D4's and D5's on a Musical Fidelity A5 (250wpc)... I have found it's hard to "out amp" the speakers. The better the amp, the better they sound.

To answer your configuration questions: The D4's are borderline full range depending on how loud you listen. If they bottom out in full range mode, try crossing them over at 50-60Hz.. I would stay shy of the 80Hz setting if possible.
Different rooms will attenuate differently as well. So the vague receiver suggestions I made above can't compensate for all situations.

I once had a statement on our site suggesting people use a $2k receiver or above, but I had so many emails telling me that the Design 4/5 system was being powered by a $500 brand X and sounded wonderful... (I don't know the reference point) But I decided to take it off and replace it with "75 wpc w/ good power supply". This seemed to calm the natives.

I would not run the D3 full range. They should be cut off around 60-70 HZ.

Hope this makes my point more clear. I really don't like talk absolutes very much when so many varaibles exist. However, I will always do my best to make vaild recommendations.

Best wishes,
David

Yes, spend a bit of time with all of them (nice list), you should certainly be very happy with at least one of them. I have my pecking order but it is too personal, and in the abscense of comparison, they are all quite good.
Have fun, let us know. I envy you.


Thank you. I do intend to take my time and do the demos right. I've already got the CD73 to match the receiver, and I'm picking up a new turntable this week.

I want this to be a fun experience, and I feel like I've done enough research to get the party started. Luckily, I have some great local dealers, all of whom sell Arcam with these speakers, so I should be able to make an informed decision. One dealer has Dalis & Dynaudios, the other eras, and the third, B&W. The only speakers I haven't heard yet are the cm1s as I haven't been to their shop.

I will be sure to report back.

the other eras, and the third, B&W. The only speakers I haven't heard yet are the cm1s
Choosing between those two seems to be at the heart of many decisions in my store of late.

Dave,
any thoughts on making a dipole?

I've got the era 5s, cm1s, Dali Ikon2s and Dynaudio 42s on my short list.

I've got the ERA 5 Sats and the Dynaudio 42's here in studio. Both are quite good speakers. The ERA's have a huge advantage over the 42's in appearence. They are real close sound wise and both are great when powered with separates. Both do a good job with receiver power, which we've already been discussing.

Which do I prefer...ERA 5 or Dynaudio 42? Ugh! That's a tough one!!! I have to give the edge to the ERA's since they are drop-dead-freakin-gorgeous. :D

Dave,
any thoughts on making a dipole?


Yes, One day.
Realistically, it will be next year I would guess. Both Jim and I like diffused rear effects. I designed the first Monitor Audio bi/di poles when I worked for them.

It's hard being small. You want to do it all at once, but limited resources make it difficult. If things are going as good as they are now a year from now, we should be a contender in the Di/Bi pole arena.
I have to confess that I pushed hard for the floorstanders before the di/bi's.

It's a lot like playing monopoly when we were kids. You want Park Place and Boardwalk the first few times around, but if you buy them too quick, the Shoe puts you into bankruptcy w/ Baltic and Mediterranean...
Must pass GO...Must collect $200... must buy di/bi poles before the Shoe.
(sorry for the game board banter)

Thanks for asking,
David

How's your wife liking the improved asthetics?

How's your wife liking the improved asthetics?

Kristi and Jim's wife Ann were a big inspiration when it came to the "it's got to look great" thing to begin with, so they both love it...

Hi Guys, Thanks a million. I feel as though I've just given birth. Here's my new baby www.signalpathint.com . Hope you like it. There will be a few kinks for the first few weeks, but we'll get sorted out soon.

Thanks for all of the input I have received regarding the site. I understand that it might take 24-48 hours before everyone will see the site.

Best wishes,
David Solomon


Thank Christ, the old website was brutal. Nice work guys, especially with the downloadable reviews.

David:
Congrats on the new site, now take a minute, sit back and enjoy your creations for pete's sake!!
Mark

As for the power requirements on the D4's and D5's. My Onix SP3 is just 38wpc, but it's quality power and as long as the tubes have warmed up for an hour they made both sets of speakers sound terrific.

The moral of the story, buy quality power and you'll never complain.

David,
I guess your located in atlanta :P

Where is the specs page for the Era D3s? Your site is a little confusing.

thanks

Hi mpg,
I have not listened to all receivers w/ these speakers...I knew there would be exceptions (see above). I'm in your camp, I dont listen at "normal" levels either, so I personally require a good bit more power.
Having said that, the $1500 Rotel 1050 that we used at CES a couple of years ago (75x5) worked very well. This receiver pushed them in a 30x50 room. And quite loud too.

To answer your configuration questions: The D4's are borderline full range depending on how loud you listen. If they bottom out in full range mode, try crossing them over at 50-60Hz.. I would stay shy of the 80Hz setting if possible.
Different rooms will attenuate differently as well. So the vague receiver suggestions I made above can't compensate for all situations.

I once had a statement on our site suggesting people use a $2k receiver or above, but I had so many emails telling me that the Design 4/5 system was being powered by a $500 brand X and sounded wonderful... (I don't know the reference point) But I decided to take it off and replace it with "75 wpc w/ good power supply". This seemed to calm the natives.

I would not run the D3 full range. They should be cut off around 60-70 HZ.

Hope this makes my point more clear. I really don't like talk absolutes very much when so many varaibles exist. However, I will always do my best to make vaild recommendations.

Best wishes,
David

Dave, thank you very much for your response. Lots of good info there. I think the problem comes in when you compare the amplification of a high end receiver like the Rotel 1050 to something from Yamaha, Denon, or say Pioneer. They may all have about the same wattage rating or in some cases the Rotel is lower. However, the Rotel will always out perform the receivers in its price range from the companies I mentioned.

Personally I prefer Yamaha just because of their features. My receiver only cost me $150 used which is almost 1/10 the price of most offerings from Rotel. The price difference is warranted though. In my opinion if you really want to fill the room with these bad boys you must use something a little higher end like the Rotels or this Emotiva looks good for only $500. Anyway keep up the great work. I still am not seeing the new site though. I will try it from another computer to see if it just my internet connections caching.

http://www.emotiva.com/lpa1.html

Since I have a mixture of D4’s and D3’s would it be better to set my receiver to crossover the information from all channels below 60 Hz to the sub and the main D4 speakers and set the main speakers as large? And then the D4 center channel and the D3 surrounds would get everything above 60 Hz from their respective channels.

I was able to check out the site on another internet connection. It is awesome. Tons of great stuff on there. I guess yesterday marks the day when ERA has officially become a player in the market. When you get those floor standers out you will be a real force to be reckoned with!

Their website is SO much better now.

David

Very nice job on the new site

:cool:

I've got the ERA 5 Sats and the Dynaudio 42's here in studio. Both are quite good speakers. The ERA's have a huge advantage over the 42's in appearence. They are real close sound wise and both are great when powered with separates. Both do a good job with receiver power, which we've already been discussing.

Which do I prefer...ERA 5 or Dynaudio 42? Ugh! That's a tough one!!! I have to give the edge to the ERA's since they are drop-dead-freakin-gorgeous. :D

I spoke with my dealer last night re: setting up some turntables. This one sells Dynaudio and Dali, so I asked that we hear them through those two, paired with an Arcam receiver.

He claims the Dyns will destroy the Dali bookshelves - and that Dali's floorstanders are where they excel. Since the Dyns are cheaper, this is always welcome information and it may have narrowed the group to 3!

I wish they were all at the same dealer, as I have a good relationship with this particular dealer, and would love to give him the business whichever I choose, but ultimately, I'm deciding on sound & looks. I'll be buying local either way.

Got some D5s, thanks David! I have to say, they do very well. Midrange is exceptional. Bass is surprisingly "not ported" sounding and they *do* sound as big as claimed. I don't know if I could tell this speaker is ported just by listening and I almost always can. I'm assuming part of this is that you guys went for accuracy over efficiency. The D5s clearly outpoint my little NHT Absolute Zeros in most ways - bass, dynamics, midrange clarity (as it should). The Twos, which I'm likely to replace with the D4s, are also largely beaten by the [more expensive] D5s. I will say that, as a drummer, I remain a fan of metal dome tweeters. The soft dome has that shhhhhhh sound instead of the tssssss sound to which I am accustomed, but again, it's one of the reasons I needed something different. I was surprised a the midrange detail. The D5s were not only a bit brighter than I'd expected, but were also legitimately very detailed. I'd personally say I think I'd prefer the tweeter being about 1/2-1dB lower in volume. The NHT Threes are marginally more to my taste, mainly in the clarity/soundstaging department, but I also have people that scratch their heads when I play them so I know they'll make a nice complement to them. My friend that helps around the store thought they were more similar than different, but I notice a lot of differences in flavor. I also think the Threes are state of the art in that price range, so the fact that they are in the same ballpark sure beats most of what I hear from my competitors. Keep in mind, they're not even broken in yet and appear to be about a dB lower in efficiency than even the NHTs, so that has some impact. I played a little country on the D5s and they didn't have that out of control, shouty, coming out of a PA horn type of sound that I hear on many 90dB efficient speakers. I haven't heard a two-way bookshelf speaker that has the kind of midrange detail that the D5s have for less than a couple $thousand. Nice driver! I'd be a bit more happy with a metal tweeter, but others, I'm sure, wouldn't be. And that wouldn't do much to offer variety for me.

Keep in mind, this is all just preliminary listening. I'm not a huge believer in big break in periods, but I'm sure they will need some time. But I am impressed so far. Right out of the box, they're able to mix it up quite well with my favorite speakers. The biggest surprise was the gorgeous midrange quality. I didn't think you could pull it off with that much bass depth/precision all from a 2-way 5" speaker.

David,
I guess your located in atlanta :P

Where is the specs page for the Era D3s? Your site is a little confusing.

thanks

About 10 mi N in Historic Roswell.
If you hit the specifications page, it's the first spec to the left.
Best wishes,
David

Since I have a mixture of D4’s and D3’s would it be better to set my receiver to crossover the information from all channels below 60 Hz to the sub and the main D4 speakers and set the main speakers as large? And then the D4 center channel and the D3 surrounds would get everything above 60 Hz from their respective channels.

The amp looks really interesting! For $500 bucks, I'd like to hear it. I'll bet it would blow away most receiver based amps.
Most of the receivers these days have pre out's, so this looks like a great way to beef them up w/o breaking the bank. If you get it I'd be interested in hearing a report.

W/ your current set up, I would run all of them at 60Hz..
Once you get the bigger amp, I would try the 4's full range. You'll know pretty quick if you need to cross them over. I would always start w/ the lowest crossover setting then work your way up until the sats seem to be performing effortlessly.
This is a pretty good rule of thumb as it takes into consideration your desired volume level while setting the crossover point.

With my spl demands, I usually end up running the 4's @ 50-60Hz and the 5's full range.

Best wishes,
David

Thanks for all of the positive feedback on the web site.
I've been traveling since 6 this morn and it's great to get to the hotel, open AVS, and get see the responses.
This is an open source web page so I can update the content. It will take a bit to get up to speed, but if you see something out of place, please let me know.
Thanks again,

David

Has ayone had a chance to compare the Rosewood finish closely with that of the Onix speakers?

I'm thinking about possibly getting a set of 3's for rear surrounds (the size is right :D)...

If anyone still can not see the new http://www.signalpathint.com/ website then try this.

Go to http://www.signalpathint.com/ with firefox and it will still bring up the old page. The problem is that your isp or internet server is caching the old page. Try to hit refresh on the page. If that does not work then right click and select “this Frame”. Then select reload frame for each frame on the page. When you reload the frame it should say ”This frame not found” or something to that affect. Then when you hit refresh on your browser again the new page should appear.

It looks like your new site does not mention “Stereo Design” in San Diego as a place to get the ERA speakers. I was in there the other day and they were extremely helpful. Could you add them to the list? Here is their website.

http://www.stereodesign.com/

It looks like your new site does not mention “Stereo Design” in San Diego as a place to get the ERA speakers. I was in there the other day and they were extremely helpful. Could you add them to the list? Here is their website.

http://www.stereodesign.com/

Hi mpg...Thanks for the heads up. Just an oversight.
Out for the day, doing EHX in Orlando.
Best wishes,
David

Has ayone had a chance to compare the Rosewood finish closely with that of the Onix speakers?

The Rosewood will not match between the two companies. Both are finished beautifully, though.

A few days later, the tweeters seem to be a bit more integrated and customers are liking them. The cabinets are *amazing*. I'm used to good cabinetry, but this is pretty impressive.

I'm used to good cabinetry

Really? From whom?

:rolleyes:

Greetings all,

I just purchased a set of ERA 4's, 3's and the 4LCR for home a week ago (using a sub I already had). I am looking for a new pre/pro + amp or integrated receiver. I mostly listen to music and concert DVD's.

I've seen some good things said about the ARCAM 300 and 350 and am wondering if a pre + amp would serve these speakers better. I bet this has been covered a few dozen times around this forum. Being new, I wouldn't mind a link to read up on this type of thing.

I'm currently powering with a Yamaha RXV-800 that seems to struggle with these and am looking to make a step into something of higher quality/calibre/power.

Another Question:
The Yamaha doesn't seem to have a 4 Ohm setting for the centre channel. Will I damage anything by using the 6Ohm setting?

Many thanks

What's your budget? I had excellent results with the Ayre AX-7e integrated.

I'd go with a *very* good receiver or separates because the Eras are actually harder to drive than NHTs and that's saying something!

Got in 4s yesterday, will probably keep those as demos! I'm surprised by the size, the bass and the build quality is *impressive*. They're built like $3000 bookshelf speakers, if indeed those are even built as well. Holy crap. Overkill? Maybe!

I'd go with a *very* good receiver or separates because the Eras are actually harder to drive than NHTs and that's saying something!

Got in 4s yesterday, will probably keep those as demos! I'm surprised by the size, the bass and the build quality is *impressive*. They're built like $3000 bookshelf speakers, if indeed those are even built as well. Holy crap. Overkill? Maybe!


how much does the matching center to the 4s cost?

Greetings all,

I just purchased a set of ERA 4's, 3's and the 4LCR for home a week ago (using a sub I already had). I am looking for a new pre/pro + amp or integrated receiver. I mostly listen to music and concert DVD's.

I've seen some good things said about the ARCAM 300 and 350 and am wondering if a pre + amp would serve these speakers better. I bet this has been covered a few dozen times around this forum. Being new, I wouldn't mind a link to read up on this type of thing.

I'm currently powering with a Yamaha RXV-800 that seems to struggle with these and am looking to make a step into something of higher quality/calibre/power.

Another Question:
The Yamaha doesn't seem to have a 4 Ohm setting for the centre channel. Will I damage anything by using the 6Ohm setting?

Many thanks

I have almost the same setup as you( I have the 110 Watt Yamaha HTR-5790 instead) and I have been wanting to upgrade to a separate amp also. First, let me say that the ERA center channel will run just fine with the Yamaha Receivers. If it shuts down on you then just move it to the 6 Ohm center channel setting. I actually left my 5790 on the 8 ohm setting and there are no problems at all. Dave from Era has already stated that the 4 ohm rating for the center channel is a very conservative nominal rating.

As far as the amps go, your best bet is a Rotel. I have heard these speakers on a 120 watt Rotel and they sound great. The Rotel are a little bit expensive brand new though. Used they are a pretty decent deal. If you want to go dirt cheap and then the new Emotiva LPA-1 is an absolute steal at $499 for 7 channels of power.

http://www.emotiva.com/lpa1.html

how much does the matching center to the 4s cost?

I got mine used for $300 shipped. It is $500 brand new.

John,

So how are you liking the ERA 4 Sats? Yeah, they may be tad overbuilt, but personally I think that's awesome. I'm real impressed by these.

I'm running these on the Yamaha 2700 Series Receiver/DVD combo. It's driving the 4 Sats wonderfully. I did hook these up the Parasound Halo C2/A21 combo as well. I did not see too much of an improvement, which tells me the Yamaha's are having no problems handling these.

I got mine used for $300 shipped. It is $500 brand new.


perfect. thanks!

another thing in the ERAs favor is that the dealer that sells has a life-time full tradeup policy, so I'm thinking of a sat 4 or 5 for now, and then trading up to the Floorstanders when they come out and i have the room.

I'm running these on the Yamaha 2700 Series Receiver/DVD combo. It's driving the 4 Sats wonderfully. I did hook these up the Parasound Halo C2/A21 combo as well. I did not see too much of an improvement, which tells me the Yamaha's are having no problems handling these.

I've run these on Integra's which will run 4ohm speakers , but HAVE noticed a big improvement on Rotel and Arcam equipment...but I like it loud.

Currently, The Triad InCeiling Gold/6 Omni is my favorite match w/ the D4/D5. We will have an in-ceiling similar to this speaker at some point this year...probably toward the end.
Best wishes,
David

David / Tony,
Would you also recommend the Triad in-ceiling with the flat panels (PL28)? Are there any others you recommend? Finding matching ceiling speakers is a big concern for me.

I will soon be visiting Ttowntony to check out the flat panels. I would be interested to hear more opinions on the PL24 or PL28 from anyone that has heard them.

Thanks

I will soon be visiting Ttowntony to check out the flat panels. I would be interested to hear more opinions on the PL24 or PL28 from anyone that has heard them.
Stunning, Impressive, Exceeded expectations.......wait till you hear them!

Would you also recommend the Triad in-ceiling with the flat panels (PL28)? Are there any others you recommend? Finding matching ceiling speakers is a big concern for me.

I think David has already stated that he thinks the Triads are a good match for rear duty. I'm sure there are others that will work just fine since we're only talking rear duty here. Personally, if we do an in-ceiling install with the ERA's, we'll go the PSB or Polk Audio route.

We just got these in recently and I have to agree with Schadenfreude that these are pretty impressive.

I was cynical about the aluminum cabs not sounding as nice as the wood ones (or looking as nice) , but I quickly got over it.

I think David has already stated that he thinks the Triads are a good match for rear duty. I'm sure there are others that will work just fine since we're only talking rear duty here. Personally, if we do an in-ceiling install with the ERA's, we'll go the PSB or Polk Audio route.

We just got these in recently and I have to agree with Schadenfreude that these are pretty impressive.

Hi Guys,
We're using the same drivers in the PL series as the D4. Instead of using 1.5mil extrusion, we use 3 mm. Also, there is an acoustical damping material used on the baffle board and inside as well making the cabinet inert.
Every attempt was made to make the PL speakers to sound like D4's on steroids.

Regarding rear effects, many of the soft dome in-ceiling/in-walls will work just fine w/ movies.
If you've ever turned off all speakers in your system except for the rear effects, you were probably surprised that so little information was actually being sent. Room size cues, bouncing bullets, wind etc... Not much direct info at all. Processors have the ability to send more info, but most engineers realize that if too much indirect info is sent to the rear effects, it renders the sound track unrealistic and more difficult to understand the dialog.

On the other hand, if you listen to 5.1 stereo, (which I don't), requires a better voice match like the triad.

Hope this helps. At some point, we will have our own rear effects.
Since I have not heard many in-ceiling speakers w/ our speakers, it would be much appreciated to hear if you've found any that work particularly well.
Many times the better dealers will have a good solution since they work with a large variety of in-ceiling/in-wall speakers and know their voicing.

Best wishes,
David Solomon

So how are you liking the ERA 4 Sats? Yeah, they may be tad overbuilt, but personally I think that's awesome. I'm real impressed by these.

So far, so good. I need to do a little more listening. The port is working pretty hard at times to produce those lows, so I bet they really sound good with a sub.

I'm running these on the Yamaha 2700 Series Receiver/DVD combo. It's driving the 4 Sats wonderfully. I did hook these up the Parasound Halo C2/A21 combo as well. I did not see too much of an improvement, which tells me the Yamaha's are having no problems handling these.

They're pretty forgiving speakers too. They will take a bad recording and make it sound great, yet still do well on the well recorded discs we have. Well, I *think* that's what's happening. Not sure! I'll put on one disc on the NHTs and the NHTs sound a little better. Then I put a different disc on and the Eras sound a little better. Now I just have figure out why that's happening. Or figure out if I even care why.

I am surprised the Yammy is doing okay, but really, it depends on your max volume.

Since the cabinet design of these are so small, it doesn't seem like it would be difficult at all to turn these into inwalls with integrated back boxes ;) ;) ;)

I think David has already stated that he thinks the Triads are a good match for rear duty. I'm sure there are others that will work just fine since we're only talking rear duty here. Personally, if we do an in-ceiling install with the ERA's, we'll go the PSB or Polk Audio route.

Maybe upper end Polk, PSBs don't sound much at all like Eras. NHT's iW1 or iC1 might be a good choice. They have a soft dome tweeter with a 6" poly mid, so there's at least a vague resemblance there. The Triads are probably the most similar, but obviously more expensive.

Since the cabinet design of these are so small, it doesn't seem like it would be difficult at all to turn these into inwalls with integrated back boxes ;) ;) ;)Except that you'd be struck by lightning, or have bad karma for eternity, or get cut off by your SO, or something, for hiding those nice cabinets.

I just demoed both the D4s and D5s. I really like the amount of detail they presented without any brightness. I am going to pick these up next week. I just need to figure out which ones to go with. Very impressive.

I have a question. I am constrained by size for my L/R (they might have to go on the wall), so I am pretty sure I will go with the D4s. I have no such constraint with my center channel. Would it be ok to use the LCR from the D5 series paired with the D4s as mains, or should I go with the smaller center channel that matches the D4s.

Thanks

I can't speak to these exact speakers, but match is more important than trying to get more out of the center. Having the same drivers helps a lot, not sure what these are but I'd go with the speaker they suggest.

Also, I have had a center that was too much for the mains, and while I could manage it with a little tweaking, it meant I pretty much had to way underutilize the center all of the time to make the front three speakers sound right. So too much center and it won't really get used.

And even more so in a small room.

You might consider going with LCR 4s all across the front. I actually preferred these to the D5 sats.

After a little bit of break in, I think I have to retract the "wish the tweeter were .5-1dB lower" comment about the D5s. It didn't take long, but they really sweetened up and integrated better. Either that or I just got used to them. Almost 100% positive comments. I think only one person expressed a strong preference for the NHTs sitting next to them, most everyone else thought they were a virtual toss up with preferences being described with "a little bit....." I haven't had the time with the D4 though.

I have a question. I am constrained by size for my L/R (they might have to go on the wall), so I am pretty sure I will go with the D4s. I have no such constraint with my center channel. Would it be ok to use the LCR from the D5 series paired with the D4s as mains, or should I go with the smaller center channel that matches the D4s.

Thanks

Go with the matching center, that's key and make sure the amplification for all three front channels is identical as is the cabling.

I just demoed both the D4s and D5s. I really like the amount of detail they presented without any brightness. I am going to pick these up next week. I just need to figure out which ones to go with. Very impressive.

They are okay at detail (if you factor in price, I would say they are very good), but that's not their forte in absolute terms; that fact was brought starkly into focus compared to B&W 804S (not even close to a fair comparison, I know) on a mid-fi all Ayre system. What the D4s have is a midrange that excels well beyond its pricepoint and bass that it has no right to have at that size no matter the price. I really found the D4s more than competent on male vocals but lacking on female vocals with, not surprisingly, little weight in the low end.

The other nice thing about the D4s is they are extremely kind to upstream gear. You don't need the best equipment to hear good music, although the better the upstream the better the D4s sound. Granted, using a $400 Sony receiver is going to cause them to sound ... uninspired but still decent. Use some quality like an Ayre CX-7e (which is an okay source, but not at the price, but it is good at resolving detail and being flashy despite no bottom end; sound was comparable to my Samsung 950 DVD player at times even though Ayre was balanced) and AX-7e integrated (brilliant) and even with cheap cables like bettercables, bluejeans, etc. the D4s will sound quite nice, certainly surprised me.

Again, for the price, possibly even up to $1000 the shortcomings are understandable and vastly outweighed by the performance. Frankly, even though I upgraded, I'm not sure I want to sell mine; I know if I ever want to integrate a 5.1 system into my stereo system, I'll definitely want the D4s doing rear duty. Otherwise, I'd just want to give them a good home with a family member/friend who would have bought bose or the like otherwise to show them what quality audio is all about.

After a little bit of break in, I think I have to retract the "wish the tweeter were .5-1dB lower" comment about the D5s. It didn't take long, but they really sweetened up and integrated better.

Hi John, This has been my experience as well. After about 48 hours of pounding the D5's, they begin to really sweeten up. I agree that right out of the box, they can be a little "toppie", but this is not the typical "300 hour" break-in speaker in which we hope you get used to the detail. They actually get in line pretty quick.
We almost dropped the tweeter 1dB when we were first voicing the D5, but after a couple of days of break-in, we decided that we liked the extended, but still smooth response.

Hope you enjoy!
David

Can the D5s be wall mounted? Do they come with the brackets, like the D4s do? If not, are the backs threaded, to accept an omnimount, or something similar?

Hi John, This has been my experience as well. After about 48 hours of pounding the D5's, they begin to really sweeten up. I agree that right out of the box, they can be a little "toppie", but this is not the typical "300 hour" break-in speaker in which we hope you get used to the detail. They actually get in line pretty quick.

Hope you enjoy!
David

I finally have 100-150 hours on all of my D4’s and D3’s. They really have settled in now. They changed enough that I decided to recalibrate and I am glad that I did. Everything really sounds great now. Thanks “ERA”! At normal volume levels I am totally satisfied with my system. I still plan on getting the emotive amp for those times when I want to crank it up. However, when my wife is in the room I am not allowed to turn it up past a whisper.

My wife claims that she hates the new Speakers but she just doesn’t like me buying new stuff. I am actually able to turn the night mode(volume leveling) off with her in the room now. She doesn’t even notice because all of the lows and highs are sharp and crisp instead of muddied like they were with the Bose speakers.

If you need small speakers and you don’t audition these bad boys then you are definitely missing out on one of the great bargains of today!

Can the D5s be wall mounted? Do they come with the brackets, like the D4s do? If not, are the backs threaded, to accept an omnimount, or something similar?
Hi Redskin,
We didn't include a bracket in the D5's as we didn't think they would get wall mounted because of the weight...we were wrong... they're being installed on walls frequently with the use of the Omnimount 20.0 which will hold the weight if installed properly. This is a 16 lb speaker so we do suggest professional installation, however, if you still want to do it yourself, here's what you do.
The 20.0 bracket needs a little modification. You will need a graduated drill bit for the job. They look like a cone and can be purchased at almost any hardware store.
The hole in the bracket is not quite large enough for the 8mm screw that we supply in the D5 box, so the graduated bit will enlarge the hole on the bracket one size larger than it is now. This allows the 8mm screw to fit through the hole on the bracket and mount securely to the speaker in the 8mm threaded insert.
When mounting the D5 LCR, two of the 20.0 brackets are needed.
We highly recommend that the bracket is mounted to a stud for safety.
Hope this helps,
David Solomon

Can the D5s be wall mounted? Do they come with the brackets, like the D4s do? If not, are the backs threaded, to accept an omnimount, or something similar?

I do not recall if omnimount had a wall mount strong enough to handle the weight of the D5's. The D5's are significantly larger than the D4's. However I am using omnimounts to wall-mount my D4's as rears and they work great. The catch however is that you can not use the bracket that comes with the D4's to mount them with the omnimounts. I had to drill out/modify the holes on the omnimount bracket to align with the mounts on the back of the speaker.

I didn't realize the D5s were so heavy. I think I will go with the D4s. When I demo'd them, I did like the D5s better, but it was very close. They were meticulously set up on some nice heavy stands. I am thinking that in my room, if I wall mount them, the D4's might even make more sense with the added bass reinforcement against the wall.

I didn't realize the D5s were so heavy. I think I will go with the D4s. When I demo'd them, I did like the D5s better, but it was very close. They were meticulously set up on some nice heavy stands. I am thinking that in my room, if I wall mount them, the D4's might even make more sense with the added bass reinforcement against the wall.
Hi Redskin,
The D4's in full range "against the wall" should sound better than the D5 in the same position.
Best wishes,
David Solomon

I have really enjoyed reading this thread on the era speakers.
I've decided to add some speakers to the tv room, starting with a
2.0 or 2.1 system (I already have a primary stereo system in the
living/listening room). I have been giving serious thought to the
bookshelf offerings by the internet dealers (Aperion, Ascend, Axiom, Hsu).
I read about the eras, and found there was a dealer in a nearby
town, so while visiting my daughter there, I stopped in and gave the
D4s and D5s a listen. I liked them, and spent some more time with
them a couple of months later. Despite their being double (or more)
the price of the internet bookshelves I've been considering, I'm giving
them serious thought.

My question to the group: I intend to build a custom wall unit along
this wall for electronics, books, etc, and I would like to put the speakers
in a cloth-covered space (yeah, I know it's stupid to cover up such beauty,
but that's what she-who-must-be-obeyed wants). Given that the D4s and
D5s are rear-ported, I'm concerned what this might do to the sound.

Has anyone else done such a thing? I've read about people mounting them
on walls, but close to a wall might be much different than in an enclosed
space.

Any input?

Thanks,

rick

Dave, I have a desire to set-up (7) D5's all around , however the side and rear surrounds would be wall mounted and I am wondering if the D4's would be a good alternative or not. While I can get the Omni20.0's (for the sides) , they would stick out a bit like a sore thumb , but in the back, I am trying to see if I can do something creative with the back pair pulled (far) forward on some wall mounted shelves that may break up some of the acoustic effects of that wall. The problem is that the backs and sides would still be very close to the wall .....
Your thoughts?
Maybe I'll wait till I see you next time ;) ..... naw, the suspense would kill me.

My question to the group: I intend to build a custom wall unit along
this wall for electronics, books, etc, and I would like to put the speakers
in a cloth-covered space (yeah, I know it's stupid to cover up such beauty,
but that's what she-who-must-be-obeyed wants).

rick

Hello Rick

No truer words were ever spoken: "when mama is happy, everybody is happy"

:D :D

I will soon be visiting Ttowntony to check out the flat panels. I would be interested to hear more opinions on the PL24 or PL28 from anyone that has heard them.

Come on by. I have the PL24's setup and mated with the Sub10......Very impressive.

My impression of the he Sub10: It does a fine jobl. I was somewhat scared to add the ERA Subs because there are so many excellent products out there that are cheaper. But, this guy holds it's own and sounds very nice. It of course is packaged gorgeously like the other ERA's.

My question to the group: I intend to build a custom wall unit along
this wall for electronics, books, etc, and I would like to put the speakers
in a cloth-covered space (yeah, I know it's stupid to cover up such beauty,
but that's what she-who-must-be-obeyed wants). Given that the D4s and
D5s are rear-ported, I'm concerned what this might do to the sound.

Has anyone else done such a thing? I've read about people mounting them
on walls, but close to a wall might be much different than in an enclosed
space.

Any input?

Thanks,

rick

Has your significant other (SO) seen the ERA's? IMO, their appearance is furniture grade and your SO may find them attractive enough so that they do not need to be covered/hidden.

One of the main reasons that I'm planning on ERA fronts is so that my wall doesn't *LOOK* like an entertainment center.

Also, having the ERAs in an enclosed space might make them a bit boomy. I would also wonder if it would affect imaging at all.

Dave, I have a desire to set-up (7) D5's all around , however the side and rear surrounds would be wall mounted and I am wondering if the D4's would be a good alternative or not. The problem is that the backs and sides would still be very close to the wall .....
Your thoughts?


The D4's are fine against the wall from a bass standpoint. The port is tuned 10Hz lower than the resonant freq of the driver, so not much comes from the port other than air... We did this on purpose as we knew many installations require placement near a back wall.
The D5's have enough bass to affect the low end output if in full range mode and placed too close to the wall.
If the D5's are cut off at 60Hz or above, this will not be a problem.
If this is not clear, you can always call me.
Best wishes,
David Solomon
770-649-9544