According to the twitter feed of the BBC Sport F1 presenter (anchor) Jake Humphrey, it is looking unlikely that F1 will be host broadcast in HD during the 2010 season, though he hints that it is looking more hopeful for 2011.

"For those asking(about 2,000!) F1 doesn't look like it'll be in HD this season unfortunately, in 12 months time it'll likely be different. "

I suspect most broadcasters aren't prepared to pay extra for HD currently, and Bernie sees no reason to provide it for free currently...

All that said - he can (and does) change his mind at short notice - so who knows???

My gut says - don't bank on it.

It's amazing that one of the most viewed, most expensive sports is still bogged down with SD feeds. Do we at least have any information on which races will be upscaled this year? I'm guessing on FOX again?

-JR

Topic title edited. Again, but hopefully for the last time.

Heh

It's amazing that one of the most viewed, most expensive sports is still bogged down with SD feeds. Do we at least have any information on which races will be upscaled this year? I'm guessing on FOX again?

-JR

Well look who runs the sport, Bernie is as cheap as they come, like you said the most technologically driven sport and they can't even produce the races in High Definition for their viewers to see.

I used to be a die hard F1 fan but have started to drift away in the recent seasons. Their continual head in the sand approach about High Definition coverage hasn't helped matters.

Gosh, it's the first time in many years I am looking forward on watching F1 races again and to find out that it's still being produced in SD. Pathetic, totally pathetic, below pathetic....Bernie!

Gosh, it's the first time in many years I am looking forward on watching F1 races again and to find out that it's still being produced in SD. Pathetic, totally pathetic, below pathetic....Bernie!

Yes, I cannot think of anything else I watch regularly that is not in HD except for F1..

Gosh, it's the first time in many years I am looking forward on watching F1 races again and to find out that it's still being produced in SD. Pathetic, totally pathetic, below pathetic....Bernie!

I totally agree.......that's what you get when you have a mummy running the show

It's not HD, but it's darn good widescreen SD.
Very artistic camera work during the non-racing segments.
But much of the data graphics normally provided by F1 to the TV network were missing.

The new graphics are a bit more stylish, but like the speed commentators mentioned, they don't have some of the graphics they used to, like the knockout qualifying list. I really liked the list, but the it was annoying at the same time since it was 4:3 safe.

Gosh, it's the first time in many years I am looking forward on watching F1 races again and to find out that it's still being produced in SD. Pathetic, totally pathetic, below pathetic....Bernie!



If the rest of the season is as boring as today's Bahrain race, maybe I'll wait till the 2011 season to watch F1 again. :mad:

I miss the excellent coverage of Formula 1 in Germany on RTL, heh. The Schumacher era was good times. I know he's back but too much changed in the sport since then.

Is there anyone out there that watches F1 on one of the live streaming websites that offers it? I don't have cable or satellite and have no intention of changing that, so that means no Speed Channel. There are a few websites that stream F1 for a price. I'm just wondering which one(s) offer the better service. Thanks.

If the rest of the season is as boring as today's Bahrain race, maybe I'll wait till the 2011 season to watch F1 again. :mad:

I agree, all of the strategy is gone. One 2 second stop to change tires?

F1 needs to figure out a formula to encourage passing, which they thought the new no-refuel rule might do. I don't know why they thought it would make a difference though.

So the problems with F1 haven't changed - qualifying is the #1 determinant of how well you will finish and there's very little passing outside of the first lap, which is why they're always showing replays of it during the race because it's the only action you'll see. ;)

I agree, all of the strategy is gone. One 2 second stop to change tires?



It's absolutely horrible. At least there was a better chance of mixing things up when there were fuel stops. If Vettel didn't blow a header at Bahrain he would have won in his sleep.

All they have to do now is win at qualifying and they're almost assured the race win.

F1 needs to figure out a formula to encourage passing, which they thought the new no-refuel rule might do. I don't know why they thought it would make a difference though.

So the problems with F1 haven't changed - qualifying is the #1 determinant of how well you will finish and there's very little passing outside of the first lap, which is why they're always showing replays of it during the race because it's the only action you'll see. ;)



True, but they added a bunch of curves at Bahrain to make it even harder to pass. The logic of F1 eludes me.

F1 needs to figure out a formula to encourage passing, which they thought the new no-refuel rule might do. I don't know why they thought it would make a difference though.

It especially won't make a difference since now the cars are exactly the same weight all the time.

In past years at least there was a little bit of drama as the lighter cars tried to pass the heavier ones, or the lighter cars sprinted for a few laps after the guys in front of them pulled in for fuel and tires.

Now the only drama is avoiding the "moving chicanes", i.e. the new slow teams. There were plenty of those situations back in the '90s, but the lap times really tightened up in the last few years.

So why does Indy/CART schedule races on the same day as F1 ?
They both appeal to about the same US audience, so why not alternate weeks?

This season, they only overlap on 4 more weekends, until November. I'm actually surprised it is that small of a number, Mar 28, Apr 18, May 30, and Jul 25. There is one other weekend where they race on the same weekend, which is Aug 28-29 (Indy on Sat, F1 on Sun).

So why does Indy/CART schedule races on the same day as F1 ?
They both appeal to about the same US audience, so why not alternate weeks?

the races came on one after the other. It was perfect for an open wheel fan.

The biggest problem F-1 has always had is how static the "settings" of the cars are, in addition to the cars being so fragile. This is a huge factor with NASCAR where cars will have dings that slow them down and wing angles, tires, etc that change dramatically during the course of a race. In F-1 you're basically stuck or blessed with what you have from the beginning of the weekend. This was probably the philosophy behind the refueling ban, but of course in F-1 the money is so immense that teams have spent their way around this. There will simply never be a ton of passing in F-1 unless the money goes way down and the cars are more tank like.

Should also mention another huge factor being the way yellows are handled. In IndyCar and NASCAR this allows teams to draw close again, while in F-1 its most likely just local yellow, so not even a chance of artificial close racing.

This season, they only overlap on 4 more weekends, until November. I'm actually surprised it is that small of a number, Mar 28, Apr 18, May 30, and Jul 25. There is one other weekend where they race on the same weekend, which is Aug 28-29 (Indy on Sat, F1 on Sun).

I guess I didn't look deep enough into the schedule!
I tape many of the F1 races and almost all of the Indy/Cart races. The Indy races have so much non-race fluff and clutter (that I fast forward through). Anyway it's to time consuming to watch both races on the same day.

The vertical qualifying list has returned to the left side of the screen.

I have Speed TV HD as part of my Digital Basic package from Comcast. If Speed don't broadcast F1 races on HD I'm going to be upset. :mad:

It's not Speed's decision to make.

It's not HD, but it's darn good widescreen SD.
Very artistic camera work during the non-racing segments.

I'll have to agree with this.

Much better racing last week than week 1. Maybe it was just because of the rain but I hope not.

According to the twitter feed of the BBC Sport F1 presenter (anchor) Jake Humphrey, it is looking unlikely that F1 will be host broadcast in HD during the 2010 season, though he hints that it is looking more hopeful for 2011.

I suspect most broadcasters aren't prepared to pay extra for HD currently, and Bernie sees no reason to provide it for free currently...

All that said - he can (and does) change his mind at short notice - so who knows???

My gut says - don't bank on it.
Maybe he's saving his Euros for a 3D System Upgrade....

I have Speed TV HD as part of my Digital Basic package from Comcast. If Speed don't broadcast F1 races on HD I'm going to be upset. :mad:

They can't broadcast it in HD if it's not made available in HD. It's out of Speed's hands. This is a F1 decision.

I'm not counting on F1 in HD while Bernie is alive, since he's not going to find a way to charge extra for it. Speed has no control over the format. They just get the same video feed from FOM that everyone else gets.

Even if Bernie allows HD, I'm not sure Speed TV will ever have it. What are the viewing numbers? Do even 100,000 people in the USA watch F1? We're lucky to have F1 here at all, I'm not sure that Speed can afford to pay an extra nickel for the HD rights.

We've apparently lost "Inside F1" for this season, maybe there's no market for F1 in the USA.

Does anyone know the ratings for the F1 races on Fox? Are there any viewers? How do the ratings compare to the good ole boys driving 3400 pound cars and turning left all the time?

Much better racing last week than week 1. Maybe it was just because of the rain but I hope not. I fear the rain probably had almost everything to do with it.

I actually prefer rain races. Every teams' plans get thrown asunder and those who deal with it best and are a little lucky reap the rewards. At the very least, it takes the predictability out of races: something that's hurt F1 in some seasons.

Yikes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTmj3-wPnCU

Yikes.
What was that about? It has been blocked.

ETA: I'll take a guess it was Buemi losing both wheels during practice.

Yikes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTmj3-wPnCUFor crying out loud Bernie :rolleyes:

"This video contains content from Formula One Management, who has blocked it on copyright grounds."

For crying out loud Bernie :rolleyes:

"This video contains content from Formula One Management, who has blocked it on copyright grounds."

If you go to http://formula-one.speedtv.com/ and click on the F1 Chinese GP Practice video (down the page on the left side), the Speed boys discuss this crash right at the start of the video.

If Austin truly happens, do you think it might push us to see Fox or another network pick up the North American races again?

-JR

If Austin truly happens, do you think it might push us to see Fox or another network pick up the North American races again?

-JRFox, CBS, and NBC all suck at any motorsports coverage that isn't NASCRAP. I hope they leave the USGP alone. Hell, I'd rather bit-torrent the BBC feed after the fact than be subjected once again to the condescending dreck of Derek Daly.

If Austin truly happens, do you think it might push us to see Fox or another network pick up the North American races again?

-JR


Fox would show it on their network channel, just like they did when the USGP was at Indy.

It's hard to see how any other US network would have much interest in showing the entire F1 season, other than Monaco.

I don't see why Austin won't happen. With F1 committed to it long term they shouldn't have a problem getting the backing.

In other news, Cypher has said they will be based on Austin now instead of Charlotte.

Fox would show it on their network channel, just like they did when the USGP was at Indy.

It's hard to see how any other US network would have much interest in showing the entire F1 season, other than Monaco.

FOX will be doing their standard 4 race schedule starting in 2 weeks, with the Canadian, European (at Valencia), British, and German Grands Prix.

FOX will be doing their standard 4 race schedule starting in 2 weeks, with the Canadian, European (at Valencia), British, and German Grands Prix.



It's actually better when everything stays on Speed. You get a continuous block of GP2, the Pre-race show, and the actual race. When it's on Fox it seems disjointed. At least it's fun to hear how much it screws up Bob Varsha! :D

It's actually better when everything stays on Speed. You get a continuous block of GP2, the Pre-race show, and the actual race. When it's on Fox it seems disjointed. At least it's fun to hear how much it screws up Bob Varsha! :D

Especially for Canada, since the live broadcast and the race both start at 9 AM. IIRC from two years ago, they played their intro and then joined the world feed during the formation lap. Gave them time for one, maybe two minutes of pre-race :). Canada's tendency for safety cars means they probably won't have much time for post-race either, so don't count on seeing anything other than the podium.

FOX will be doing their standard 4 race schedule starting in 2 weeks, with the Canadian, European (at Valencia), British, and German Grands Prix.

Thanks for the reminder - time to search for those to set them to record!

-JR

My dad wanted me to watch the end of the Turkish GP, wow... lol it's like watching the sequel to Driven. What idiots.

Thanks for the reminder - time to search for those to set them to record -JRMy Tivo reports:

Jun 11 at 11:00 am on Speed - Canadian Grand Prix Practice

Jun 12 at 1:30pm on Speed - Qualifying for the Canadian Grand Prix

Jun 13 at 9:00 am on FOX - Formula One Canadian Grand Prix

Jun 13 at 9:00 am on FOX - Formula One Canadian Grand Prix

It would be nice if Speed does a pre-race show, and then switches to Fox for the race. But my schedule doesn't show that. Instead, Speed has something called "NASCAR RaceDay". I assume that is a discussion of what new tricks the good ol' boys will be using when they're turning left later that day. Somewhat OT, can we still call them "good ol' boys" if they have foreigners like JPM racing? :)

Especially for Canada, since the live broadcast and the race both start at 9 AM. IIRC from two years ago, they played their intro and then joined the world feed during the formation lap. Gave them time for one, maybe two minutes of pre-race :). Canada's tendency for safety cars means they probably won't have much time for post-race either, so don't count on seeing anything other than the podium.

Good point, I was at the GP in Montreal two years ago and had decent seats to see Hamilton take out Kimi.

My Tivo reports:

Jun 11 at 11:00 am on Speed - Canadian Grand Prix Practice

Jun 12 at 1:30pm on Speed - Qualifying for the Canadian Grand Prix

Jun 13 at 9:00 am on FOX - Formula One Canadian Grand Prix

Thank you sir! I'd forgotten that they switch between networks.

-JR

Nothing we here didn't already know, but an interesting link anyways.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84275

It's gonna be on fox and in HD?!?! :runs to MCE:

It's gonna be on fox and in HD?!?! :runs to MCE:It's on Fox, but the feed is still standard def scaled to HD for the Fox broadcast, just like for Speed.

Yeah, noticed... It's ok. FOX fails anyway. Them owning Speed has proved that otherwise.

In Chicago it wasn't even widescreen.

Argh...I guess this thread needs another title change

Ecclestone: No F1 in HD before 2012 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84448)

While Ecclestone says camera technology is now ready for his F1 production coverage to be done fully in HD, he thinks there still needs to be more fans at home able to watch it in HD, plus enough broadcasters ready to distribute it, before the move can be made. That is why he thinks it may well take until 2012 for the circumstances to be right for F1 to switch to HD coverage.

"You also have to have figured out every single camera. If it is in HD for a while and then you cut to a car and it is not HD it will be a real let down for the viewer. Technologically it is really hard and people don't appreciate how difficult it is. They will figure it out and when they do they will bring it to our house."

Earth to Bernie: MotoGP and Le Mans have already gone HD by ignoring these "problems" and doing it anyway.
I really enjoyed watching Le Mans in HD yesterday on Speed, and it was noticeably better than the F1-standard 576i.

Argh...I guess this thread needs another title change

Ecclestone: No F1 in HD before 2012 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84448)





Earth to Bernie: MotoGP and Le Mans have already gone HD by ignoring these "problems" and doing it anyway.
I really enjoyed watching Le Mans in HD yesterday on Speed, and it was noticeably better than the F1-standard 576i.


The biggest proof that 3D is definitely going to be a success: Ecclestone hates it. He hates all things good


Experiments have taken place at this weekend's Canadian Grand Prix with new 3D cameras – both taking on-track and on-board footage. But although that prompted speculation that F1 could go straight from standard definition from 3D, the technology is still too early in its development phase to even be considered for F1.

"So many people are saying the future is 3D," said Ecclestone. "It is not 3D at all. It is one-and-a-half D."

WRC hasn't gone HD yet, but they might make the switch next year.

"We don't want to broadcast unless people want it," Ecclestone told AUTOSPORT.

That is from the not before 2012 story.

One of the biggest clamours is for F1 to be shown in High Definition – 70% of fans are calling for it, according to the survey.

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/06/f1-fan-survey-high-definition-tv-and-internet-are-key/


We finally got rid of Max and it is long past time to get rid of Bernie as well.

what's odd here is that as greedy/shrewd Bernie has been in growing F1 revenues, he can't see how (absent a consumer-funded model) HD broadcasting would enhance the value of F1.

the costs, while significant, can't be staggering - F1 only has 19 events this year. MLB has 4,860, plus the postseason. meanwhile their respective revenues are within an order of magnitude in MLBs favor.

bernie: yours is the leading edge of all motorsport. don't be a laggard in presentation.

what's odd here is that as greedy/shrewd Bernie has been in growing F1 revenues, he can't see how (absent a consumer-funded model) HD broadcasting would enhance the value of F1.

the costs, while significant, can't be staggering - F1 only has 19 events this year. MLB has 4,860, plus the postseason. meanwhile their respective revenues are within an order of magnitude in MLBs favor.

bernie: yours is the leading edge of all motorsport. don't be a laggard in presentation.

You'd think that Bernie would be embarrassed that the NASCAR Nationwide Series Bubba Tubs are in HD but F1's not. It's a real disconnect considering how F1 is marketed as the most advanced, most technical, blah blah blah.
But I agree with other posters here who cite the reason it isn't happenning is that Bernie hasn't figured out how to exploit it. That greedy little limey operates FOM solely to squeeze every euro he can out of it. He doesn't care about racing as a sport, and he certainly doesn't give a squirt what fans think, especially American F1 fans (all 10 of us).

You'd think that Bernie would be embarrassed that the NASCAR Nationwide Series Bubba Tubs are in HD but F1's not. It's a real disconnect considering how F1 is marketed as the most advanced, most technical, blah blah blah.
But I agree with other posters here who cite the reason it isn't happenning is that Bernie hasn't figured out how to exploit it. That greedy little limey operates FOM solely to squeeze every euro he can out of it. He doesn't care about racing as a sport, and he certainly doesn't give a squirt what fans think, especially American F1 fans (all 10 of us).

Make that 11 lol.

Make that 11 lol.

Does that count include Posey, Varsha, and Hobbs? :)

Is Matchett now an American, or does he commute here just to comment on the races?

What is one and a half d? He sounds like he's not all there.

What is one and a half d? He sounds like he's not all there.

thanks, audiomagnate, for handing me the unenviable task of explaining Bernie.:o his comment was regarding the 3D trials at the Canadian GP. it's early stage...kinda buggy, poor PQ...so it was Bernie's way of saying the 3D capability is not quite there yet.

so, Bernie, you wanna explore 3D but you're dragging ass on HD because you're not sure there's a market for it. WTH?!?

so, Bernie, you wanna explore 3D but you're dragging ass on HD because you're not sure there's a market for it. WTH?!?

Okay, I may be OTL, and I'm too lazy to Google, but IIRC the adoption of HD in Europe is much lower than in USA. So that may be a factor in Bernie's procrastination.

Okay, I may be OTL, and I'm too lazy to Google, but IIRC the adoption of HD in Europe is much lower than in USA. So that may be a factor in Bernie's procrastination.

The only large European country to fully switch over to digital is Germany. The others that have switched over are smaller, like Finland, Holland, and Switzerland. The rest of Europe, including big F1 watchers like the UK, France, and Italy won't be full digital until 11 or 12. Spain just completed thiers this year. Canada and Japan will be done in 11, and Australia in 13.
On the TV set end of the equasion, Europe does not yet have the bulk retailer model down yet (there's not a WalMart and a BestBuy in every strip mall), so HDTVs aren't dirt cheap like they are here. Add these two together and we have the answer; the Europeans are just slow. F1 will be in HD when a majority of F1 fans have access to it.

Non-HD digital widescreen programming has been popular in Europe for some time as well, so this may also be holding back adoption of HD.

Yep - though digital OTA TV is widespread across Europe - most of this digital TV is SD not HD, though a LOT of it is 16:9 SD. (some countries like Sweden, Netherlands etc have ceased analogue, others are running both digital and analogue services - as the US did) There is a LOT of 16:9 SD in Europe - far less OTA HD (UK has 3 OTA HD channels, France has a couple, Sweden had one, not sure Germany has any OTA HD etc.)

In Europe HD is mainly satellite-based (and cable in some countries), and adoption of HD is a long way behind the US, though accelerating.

BBC One is going to begin simulcasting a BBC One HD service later this year, alongside BBC HD, and ITV1 HD and C4 HD and E4 HD are already simulcast in the UK. The current BBC HD will then carry HD content from BBC Two, Three, Four, CBBC, CBeebies etc.

ARD and ZDF in Germany are running HD services on satellite, NRK in Norway and SVT in Sweden and most of the French main channels are running HD on satellite and in some cases OTA (I think SVT HD was patchy OTA and will be relaunching using the new DVB-T2 standard the UK has also adopted that delivers 40Mbs rather than 24Mbs in a mux.) Not sure what is happening in Italy and Spain though - though they were much slower in going 16:9 SD - if they have at all.

However in Europe HD is important - but it is nowhere near the norm yet. Most people in the UK still watch 16:9 SD TV - though a large proportion are watching on "HD Ready" displays.

The only large European country to fully switch over to digital is Germany. The others that have switched over are smaller, like Finland, Holland, and Switzerland. The rest of Europe, including big F1 watchers like the UK, France, and Italy won't be full digital until 11 or 12. Spain just completed thiers this year. Canada and Japan will be done in 11, and Australia in 13.
On the TV set end of the equasion, Europe does not yet have the bulk retailer model down yet (there's not a WalMart and a BestBuy in every strip mall), so HDTVs aren't dirt cheap like they are here. Add these two together and we have the answer; the Europeans are just slow. F1 will be in HD when a majority of F1 fans have access to it.

Yep - though you have to be careful when looking at European OTA Digital TV. Lots of countries have switched to digital TV (some are still simulcasting with analogue), but aren't running HD digital TV, they're instead running 16:9 SD digital TV OTA.

Some countries are now adding HD OTA services, others treat HD as satellite/cable only. Many countries have broadcasters offering multiple SD channels, but only a single HD channel as well for instance.

It's complicated by the fact that the SD digital TV standard in Europe DVB-T was originally MPEG2 based when first introduced aroun 1998 (when ATSC launched in the US). However European OTA HD services have launched in H264 (unlike Aus which runs MPEG2 HD via DVB-T) over DVB-T in some countries, but in other countries they have waited for DVB-T2, the new transmission standard, which delivers significantly more data in a mux (40Mbs vs 24Mbs) and allows more HD content (or the same at higher quality)

The FOX tape-delay broadcast for Valencia doesn't have the sidebars that were there back in Canada. Even if it's not HD, it looks a lot better. It's full 16:9 on three FOX OTA's and on Dish Network's WFLD feed. Way better than two weeks ago.

Glad to see Webber is ok.

Wow, another dramatic race. Wow at @ 7th place finish. Who'd a thunk it. lol

The FOX tape-delay broadcast for Valencia doesn't have the sidebars that were there back in Canada. Even if it's not HD, it looks a lot better. It's full 16:9 on three FOX OTA's and on Dish Network's WFLD feed. Way better than two weeks ago.

Huh? What are you smoking? :)

On my FiOS system, my local Fox broadcast of Canada on Sunday 6/13 was in 16:9, as was the rebroadcast on SPEEDHD on the following Tuesday.

Blame your cable provider or your local Fox affiliate.

Huh? What are you smoking? :)

On my FiOS system, my local Fox broadcast of Canada on Sunday 6/13 was in 16:9, as was the rebroadcast on SPEEDHD on the following Tuesday.

Blame your cable provider or your local Fox affiliate.

Three FOX affilites- Chicago, Milwakee, & Rockford. They showed Canada in 4:3, and a pretty crappy PQ. Valencia was 16:9 and looked like 704 x 480. It was like night and day.

thanks Phantom, sneals2000, LithOTA & machpost for shedding some light on the Continent's slow transition to HD. I agree with the notion that this transition is the likely cause for Bernie's slow motion here. yet I contend content drives adoption. ESPN's huge early investments in HD have paid for themselves many times over - including significant increases in fees charged to carriers.

the HD transition costs for FOM (with only 20 singular events per year) relatively speaking have to be much lower than for the US sports broadcasting infrastructure as well as for what I would imagine they will be for European football.

Bernie: F1 is hugely profitable, your HD hurdle is dramatically lower, delayed infrastructure investments are more costly. there are so many examples where doing what's best for the brand pays off.

on a different note, why (and I apologize if this has already been addressed in this thread), during the tape-delayed '4 on Fox' period, can't we get live feeds on Speed? I like to track the live timing & scoring online during the race.

It amazes me that Red Bull is not worse off than they are atm... Those guys are idiots.

It amazes me that Red Bull is not worse off than they are atm... Those guys are idiots.



Agreed! Vettel seems to be getting on Webber's nerves, doesn't he? :D

I don't follow it as closely as my dad but... apparently Webber wasn't happy they tore the "good" wings off his car and gave it to the #1 err.. kid. lol

Take a look at the recent Hungarian GP. At about 4 minutes in, Will Buxton is doing some live reporting. I see compression artifacts, and I'm not crazy about the quality. I also see quite a few wrinkles around Will's eyes when the camera zooms in.

So is this HD? If not, how bad will Will look when Speed's live shots are in true HD?

Did anyone else notice the PQ of the Belgian GP last weekend was especially wretched? At least it was on D*. The picture had absolutely no sharpness at all.

This is a real shame. Spa is a great twisty, hilly course with constant weather changes that cries out for HD!!!!!

It looked normal to me - of course I'm watching on Comcast with an old Toshiba 42HDX82 rear projection CRT, so it's hard to tell. :) I do love Spa, though. What a great track. It can be pouring rain on one end, and bone dry on the other. And the elevation changes! Some day before I die, I'm going to watch an F1 race there in person. Monza (another great track) in two weeks!

Formula 1 WILL be broadcast in HD next season! This was announced by Bernie after the Singapore GP.

Formula 1 WILL be broadcast in HD next season! This was announced by Bernie after the Singapore GP.

It's more correct to say that F1 will offer HD feeds to broadcasters. Given it's Bernie we're talking about I could easily see him asking for exorbitant additional fees for HD to the point where broadcasters, like SPEED, pass on it and continue showing up-converted SD.

I'll believe F1 is in HD when I see it in my living room, and not a moment before.

Bernie confirmed next year's F1 races will be in HD when he was interviewed on the BBC broadcast from Singapore.

Whether rights holders have to pay extra to access the feed - or have budgets to backhaul the feed in HD rather than SD - I don't know.

I'd be VERY surprised if it wasn't HD on the BBC, particularly as BBC One is about to launch an HD simulcast to accompany their separate BBC HD channel (which becomes BBC Everything-Except-Stuff-On-BBC-One HD)

isn't the japanese GP in two weeks going to be in HD? Because I read somewhere that the japanese GP is the only one. That they produce themselves. (Japan)

Ecclestone says HD F1 set for 2011
(http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87017)
By Geoff Creighton and Pablo Elizalde Sunday, September 26th 2010, 16:11 GMT

3D cameras are highly complex Bernie Ecclestone says Formula 1 is likely to be broadcast in High Definition as early as next year.

The Formula 1 boss had said earlier this year that fans would have to wait until 2012 for HD broadcasts, but he suggested on Sunday that 2011 looked more likely now.

"I think what's being produced at the moment is very, very good but I think we'll be moving to High Definition, probably next year," Ecclestone told the BBC.

A Formula 1 survey showed earlier this year that a majority of fans were keen for F1 to be broadcast in HD.

Ecclestone had said a few months ago that F1 would be broadcast in HD when more fans at home were able to watch it, and enough broadcasters were ready to distribute it.

"We don't want to broadcast unless people want it," Ecclestone told AUTOSPORT in June. "I asked in England, the BBC, about it - how many people can receive it? They said about 20 per cent of the viewers who watch F1.

"Then I want to make sure that what we produce is top quality. Before we start seeing the top-top quality that we want, I would say it will probably be 2012 before we can guarantee it."

isn't the japanese GP in two weeks going to be in HD? Because I read somewhere that the japanese GP is the only one. That they produce themselves. (Japan)

The Japanese GP has been host broadcast in HD for quite a few years (by Fuji TV I believe). However it is historically only broadcast in HD in Japan - FOM only provide international rights holders with the SD downconversion. (Some European rights holders have, I believe, previously requested a direct 1080/60i to 576/50i rather than 1080/60 to 480/60i downconversion which then has to be converted to 576/50i at lower quality)

ISTR that at least on Aus GP was also host broadcast in HD prior to FOM becoming host broadcaster.

(Currently only Japan and Monaco are the only races not host broadcast by FOM AIUI)

It appeared to me that last weeks pre-race show on Speed was in HD.

It appeared to me that last weeks pre-race show on Speed was in HD.

Speed does HD & produces their own, pre-race show, but they get the race feed from FOM, so the best they can do with that is up convert the SD video.

Isn't the current Formula One broadcasts using the 16:9 aspect ratio widescreen 625-line format? Small wonder why the pictures look like a upconverted 480p video from playing back an anamorphic widescreen conventional DVD.

Isn't the current Formula One broadcasts using the 16:9 aspect ratio widescreen 625-line format?

Japan IS originated in 1080i (aka 1125) and downconverted to 480i (aka 525) for rights holders (meaning 576i (aka 625) rights holders get less than ideal picture quality - I think they'd prefer a 1080i to 576i conversion) and is not host broadcast by FOM but by FujiTV.

Not sure about Canada, Korea and Brazil (which are the other races to come from 60Hz territories) which are, I think, FOM hosted.

All the races from 50Hz territories (Europe, Australia, China, Singapore, Malaysia) will be delivered via 576i to rights holders I'd imagine.

All moot though - as it is looking very likely that next year will be HD - and I'm assuming 1080i. Not sure what the 50/60Hz mix will be. (I can't imagine Japan will be anything but 60Hz)

apparently BBC One HD will be getting an upscaled presentation from Brazil this weekend. can't wait for next season's HD pictures. (don't screw us, Bernie!)

F1 closing on HD coverage for 2011 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88363) [autosport.com]

I got the new F1 2010 game on the 360 and I gotta say it's pretty fun so far, have a reason to dust off my 360 wheel too.

F1 closing on HD coverage for 2011 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88363) [autosport.com]



So the final decision rests with Bernie. That's a good reason to worry that it won't happen.

So the final decision rests with Bernie. That's a good reason to worry that it won't happen.

He'll try and use some lame excuse to try and milk more money from everyone before relenting to do it!I love watching MotoGP in HD! They adapted right away, they even have HD cameras on the bikes. Did you hear that Bernie? At least keep up to date!:D

....I wonder when Speed will make an announcement....
Germany's Sky to broadcast F1 in HD (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88865)[autosport]

Finally, F1 welcome to the world of HD.

Yes, I also can confirm F1 in HD for 2011.

From Sky Germany to screen Formula 1 in HD (http://www.rapidtvnews.com/index.php/201101119733/sky-germany-to-screen-formula-1-in-hd.html) [rapidtvnews] With the Sky Sport App Sky subscribers can also follow the races in HD quality when they’re away from home.
I wonder when the Speed app (for any platform) will allow this?

Yes, I also can confirm F1 in HD for 2011.



In the US? I won't believe it till I see it in print somewhere.

It'll be great to watch the new 4 cylinder F1 cars put-put around the track in HD!

:rolleyes:

In the US? I won't believe it till I see it in print somewhere.I can't imagine Speed won't carry the F1 HD feed. If nothing else Speed channel has been pretty good about embracing and switching programming to HD.

I can't imagine Speed won't carry the F1 HD feed. If nothing else Speed channel has been pretty good about embracing and switching programming to HD.


Agreed, but I've been disappointed too many years to get my hopes up. Bernie is still living in the mid 20th century somewhere.

Sorry for all the reposts to autosport, but here's another:
FOM confirms HD coverage for 2011 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88873) [autosport]

The feed will be 1080i, so Speed will convert to 720p, then my tv back to 1080p. Would be nice if speed were 1080i so no res scaling.

Amid intense speculation over the last 24 hours about F1 television plans for this year, after Sky Germany announced that it was going to broadcast in HD, Formula One Management has now affirmed that all channels that have a deal to show the sport will be given an HD feed.

That sounds promising for Speed. Now for that streaming HD app....

Formula One coverage goes HD for 2011 (http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2011/1/11634.html)

From the season-opening Bahrain Grand Prix in March, coverage of all 20 rounds - including all practice sessions and support events - will be originated in HD, with the international feed then offered throughout the world at a data rate of 42 Megabits/second (MPEG-2).

Interesting tech detail there--too bad they don't mention the resolution (my guess would be 1080i50).

I'm also very interested to see if the HD feed has 16:9-framed graphics or not.

Edit: found another post, not sure of source but some very interesting info:
F1 in HD - AUTOSPORT Bulletin Board (http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=124048&view=findpost&p=4785373)
I am pleased to confirm that from the first event of the 2011 Championship and for every other event throughout the year, the International Feed will now be originated and offered in High Definition. This will apply for all sessions including Official Support events such as GP2, GP3 and the Porsche Supercup. The feed itself will be offered in 42 Mb/s MPEG2 throughout the world with a 22 Mb/s MPEG 4 option for the Americas.

Once again, for 2011, there will be 2 feeds both of which will be in High Definition. The content of each feed will be exactly the same, one feed will be the Wide International Feed (WIF); this will be a dirty 16:9 Broadcast with full 16:9 aspect ratio graphics with embedded audio. The second signal will be the Narrow International Feed (NIF); this will be a dirty 16:9 Broadcast with 4:3 safe area graphics also with embedded audio. The audio will consist of a Stereo Mix on Ch. 1 and a surround sound 5.1 Mix encoded as Dolby E Bitstream on Ch. 2.

Re: graphics, if this is true it'll (unfortunately) be like the previous years--broadcasters get to choose, most will probably take 4:3 :(

And what does the MPEG 4 option have to do with the Americas? Will it only be on a satellite that covers N/S America?

Sorry for all the reposts to autosport, but here's another:
FOM confirms HD coverage for 2011 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88873) [autosport]

The feed will be 1080i, so Speed will convert to 720p, then my tv back to 1080p. Would be nice if speed were 1080i so no res scaling.



That sounds promising for Speed. Now for that streaming HD app....

Fox sends out 720P. Speed sends out a 1080i signal.That's what shows on my DirecTV HR-22 receiver.The 1080P programs available right now are the movie channels.No broadcasting of 1080P.Unless you're viewing on a really large screen it will be difficult to tell 1080i and 1080P.

Formula One coverage goes HD for 2011 (http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2011/1/11634.html)



Interesting tech detail there--too bad they don't mention the resolution (my guess would be 1080i50).

I'm also very interested to see if the HD feed has 16:9-framed graphics or not.

Edit: found another post, not sure of source but some very interesting info:
F1 in HD - AUTOSPORT Bulletin Board (http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=124048&view=findpost&p=4785373)


Re: graphics, if this is true it'll (unfortunately) be like the previous years--broadcasters get to choose, most will probably take 4:3 :(

And what does the MPEG 4 option have to do with the Americas? Will it only be on a satellite that covers N/S America?

MPEG 4 has less artifacting IIRC.

The BBC have confirmed that they will be taking the HD feed. (There is a front page article on broadcastnow.co.uk)

My understanding is that FOM make two feeds of their 16:9 SD coverage available currently (4:3 safe and 16:9 safe). I don't know for certain, but last I heard the same was true of their HD feeds on-site.

Whether both versions are uplinked for people who pick up the host feed multilateral via satellite and don't have on-site presence I don't know. I'd be surprised if they only provided a 16:9 safe HD feed though - as many broadcasters still want 4:3 safe graphics for their legacy SD networks - but also want to run HD on their HD networks.

I would expect the races to originate in 1080i25 aka 1080/50i for 50Hz territories, and 1080i30 aka 1080/60i for 60Hz territories. Whether FOM provide a multilateral native version in both 50Hz and 60Hz territories - or standards convert to 1080i25 (aka 1080/50i) will be interesting - and also whether they provide both flavours on site. (I know that that the recent Japanese GPs - which are HD in Japan - have been converted via the 1080i30 to 480i30 to 576i25 route, rather than a 1080i30 direct to 576i25 route, much to the annoyance of 50Hz broadcasters...)

Fox sends out 720P. Speed sends out a 1080i signal.That's what shows on my DirecTV HR-22 receiver.The 1080P programs available right now are the movie channels.No broadcasting of 1080P.Unless you're viewing on a really large screen it will be difficult to tell 1080i and 1080P.

Sharp1080,

How do you know the res that is output on your HR-22? Is there a button you push that tells what the output res is?

MPEG 4 has less artifacting IIRC.

That is definitely true at emission level (direct to home - i.e. <20Mbs) bitrates. However the differences were thought to be less significant at higher bitrates.

Most broadcast high-quality satellite broadcast uplinks still use MPEG2 not MPEG4 for contribution rate (>30Mbs) circuits. I've had discussions about this with people at IBC - and their views were basically that MPEG4 H264/AVC has major benefits over MPEG2 at low-ish bitrates when it comes to transmission and distribution, and has major benefits at low bitrates for SNG contributions. However at higher bitrates the benefits were thought to reduce significantly - to a point where they effectively disappeared... This may have been based on experience with early H264 encoders (which weren't that brilliant)

That said - 42Mbs isn't a massively high bitrate for an MPEG2 contribution circuit. 60Mbs is usually regarded as a minimum for the primary MPEG2 outgoing contribution circuit for a high-quality HD show - though plenty of broadcasters will - and do - go lower.

HOWEVER - this is an interesting read :

http://tech.ebu.ch/docs/techreports/tr008.pdf It seems to suggest that H264/AVC encoding does indeed offer significant potential benefits at higher bitrates. Whether this will be enough to get broadcasters to switch their gear ASAP - who knows...

Looking at the results it seems to suggest that a 45Mbs MPEG2 signal compares equivalently to 30-36Mbs H264/AVC (aka MPEG4) using IBBP structure, and PSNR analysis (objective method comparing the difference between pictures mathematically), and equivalently to 27-30Mbs H264/AVC using subjective analysis (i.e. asking people to look at pictures) - if I've got my head round the tables.

That seems to suggest that 42Mbs MPEG2 may slightly outperform 22Mbs MPEG4 H264/AVC subjectively, and definitely using an objective method?

I really hope Speed figures out a way to get the 16:9 graphics feed for their HD channel... I can't STAND the 4:3 graphics in the way!

DirecTV, Dishnet & UVerse currently support H.264 (MPEG4) and many cable systems
use H.264 via their C-Band satellite to head-end distribution system to pack more
channels, using MPEG4-to-MPEG2 Transcoders at each headend:
http://www.multichannel.com/article/88359-MPEG_4_Strikes_HD.php
http://www.amt.com/images/products/MPEG-4_to_MPEG-2HDTV_Network_WhitePaper.pdf

Perhaps F1 will make plans for an eventual leap forward to 3D coverage,
although I hope they wait for the FULL-HD 3D implementation (like Blu-Ray)
rather than the half-rez stop-gap currently in use on current SAT & Cable
systems, which are constrained by their low-data rate HDMI v.1.3 interface
and set-top box processor limitations.....
Check out what is planned for the Winter X-Games later this month:
http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/111432

PS: All of the "sports" networks (ABC, FOX, ESPN) are broadcasting in 720p to
take advantage of the faster update rates to better resolve "fast motion".
CBS and NBC are higher resolution 1080i (visible on some but not all HDTV's).

Perhaps F1 will make plans for an eventual leap forward to 3D coverage.
Check out what is planned for the Winter X-Games later this month:
http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/111432


Whoa hold on there now. Let's see if Bernie gives us HD with HD graphics first... I will believe HD F1 is here when I see it with my own eyes. Preferably with the graphics on the left side of the screen instead of in the middle of Massa's head!

That's right I'm a Massa fan! Yes I realize I am the only one!

Fox sends out 720P. Speed sends out a 1080i signal.That's what shows on my DirecTV HR-22 receiver.The 1080P programs available right now are the movie channels.No broadcasting of 1080P.Unless you're viewing on a really large screen it will be difficult to tell 1080i and 1080P.

Hmm, I thought all Fox networks were 720p. Anyways, I know that no one broadcasts 1080p, but for a 1080p set, a 1080i signal showing 1080i material will look better than a 720p signal showing 1080i material. Since the source was 1080i, 720p doesn't offer anything than a downres, which my TV then has to scale up to 1080p. If the signal were 1080i, all my TV would have to do is the deinterlace.

I really hope Speed figures out a way to get the 16:9 graphics feed for their HD channel... I can't STAND the 4:3 graphics in the way!

I know it won't do anything, but I submitted feedback on their site asking for the 16:9 graphics , 5.1 DD feed on the HD channel.

However the differences were through to be less significant at higher bitrates.
Absolutely:D! ... maybe that's why ESPN, after just saw what some encoders (real stuff) were capable of, switch right away to AVC from MPEG-2 for their 3D feeds from World cup. They (i.e. encoders) went through bone like butter ... metaphorically speaking.
And it's also true that they had an STM-4 (or OC-12 the American equivalent) pipe, not some lousy 200 Megs like others :D...

Since the source was 1080i, 720p doesn't offer anything than a downres, which my TV then has to scale up to 1080p.
Theoretically yes ... but in professional domain is a little (at least) different. Generally speaking, broadcasters are working at different level in order to maintain signal quality in long backhauls or/and after multiple encoding/decoding operations.
ESPN chose, because the host broadcaster produced in 1080/25i format the World Cup, to stick with their "house" format (i.e. 720/60p). So, obviously, they converted the content, meaning deinterlacing and motion compensation (as I recall with some Snell Alchemist). It's also true that newer Tv sets came a long way doing that, but it still no comparison with broadcast.
As I've said before, deinterlacing (together with motion compensation) employs very complex processing algorithms (nothing transparent) and maybe that's why Yves simply summarized the complexity of the problem as "it doesn't work"!

Sharp1080,

How do you know the res that is output on your HR-22? Is there a button you push that tells what the output res is?

The newer boxes have 4 LED's on the right hand side of the box indicating which resolution you are viewing.;)

I know it won't do anything, but I submitted feedback on their site asking for the 16:9 graphics , 5.1 DD feed on the HD channel.

We can only dream that they read it and will make an effort.:D

Fox sends out 720P. Speed sends out a 1080i signal.

My TiVo HD has a Season Pass to the F1 races. So it's been re-recording all the recent replays.

Canadian Grand Prix
Wed 1/12 9:00 am
FiOS 583 SPEED HD
The above was received by my TiVo in 720p/60.

on SPEED HD right now
FIM World Superbike: Portugal, Race 2
The above is currently being received in 720p/60.

Absolutely:D! ... maybe that's why ESPN, after just saw what some encoders (real stuff) were capable of, switch right away to AVC from MPEG-2 for their 3D feeds from World cup. They (i.e. encoders) went through bone like butter ... metaphorically speaking.
And it's also true that they had an STM-4 (or OC-12 the American equivalent) pipe, not some lousy 200 Megs like others :D...


If you're saying that MPEG2 doesn't perform as well as H264 at high bitrates - and that the assumptions made a few years ago that they converged in performance at higher bitrates is wrong - then I think I agree with you based on the EBU research I quoted in my post earlier...

H264 AVC does seem to offer significant benefits over MPEG2 even at high bitrates - though 42Mbs MPEG2 may well still jsut outperform 22Mbs H264 - which are the the two F1 bitrates in question.

I guess some assumptions were made based on early H264 encoders - which were pretty lousy and did nothing much more complex than MPEG2-style compression.

**EDIT : I've just spotted a typo in my original post. Instead of 'through' it should say 'thought to'

DirecTV, Dishnet & UVerse currently support H.264 (MPEG4) and many cable systems
use H.264 via their C-Band satellite to head-end distribution system to pack more
channels, using MPEG4-to-MPEG2 Transcoders at each headend:
http://www.multichannel.com/article/88359-MPEG_4_Strikes_HD.php
http://www.amt.com/images/products/MPEG-4_to_MPEG-2HDTV_Network_WhitePaper.pdf



Yep - though to be honest that isn't hugely relevant. AIUI the 42Mbs MPEG2 and 22Mbs H264 F1 feeds discussed here are for contribution feeds TO broadcasters - not direct to home feeds FROM platform operators and/or broadcasters.

Broadcasters have to decode the MPEG2/H264 contribution feeds and recode them prior to feeding them to platform operators or uplinking them direct to home themselves - they can't just pass them straight on "as is" (not least because they are 4:2:2 and domestic receivers are 4:2:0)

The H264 or MPEG2 contrbution feeds will be downlinked and decoded by the broadcasters, routed through their master control areas (probably via a production control room and / or commercial integration area), and then distributed to viewers via whatever route is used by that broadcaster and the platform that the broadcaster is received via.


Perhaps F1 will make plans for an eventual leap forward to 3D coverage,
although I hope they wait for the FULL-HD 3D implementation (like Blu-Ray)
rather than the half-rez stop-gap currently in use on current SAT & Cable
systems, which are constrained by their low-data rate HDMI v.1.3 interface
and set-top box processor limitations.....
Check out what is planned for the Winter X-Games later this month:
http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/111432

PS: All of the "sports" networks (ABC, FOX, ESPN) are broadcasting in 720p to
take advantage of the faster update rates to better resolve "fast motion".
CBS and NBC are higher resolution 1080i (visible on some but not all HDTV's).

I think F1 have trialled some 3D stuff and will continue to.

Most TV productions I've seen shooting in 3D are not using side-by-side in the production chain for 3D stuff - they're using two full-resolution HD feeds - one for each eye. So you capture, route and record each eye feed separately at full resolution. (And in the UK end up with two 1080/50i recordings - often onto two separate tapes)

However some platform operators (like Sky in the UK) are chosing to broadcast this to the home using side-by-side as it is compatible with existing HD set-top boxes (not requiring new receivers for 3D). The use of side-by-side is a platform thing in most cases.

The main limitation of the full-res Blu-ray 3D implementation AIUI is that it is stuck at low-frame rates for 3D (basically they designed the 3D additions for movies at 2 x 1080/24p).

They didn't add 2 x 1080/50i or 60i or 2 x 720/50p or 60p 3D options which is required for sport, though if you were creating a 3D broadcast platform for scratch you'd need to accommodate 50/60Hz motion as sport really needs it (and sport is a major 3D driver)

Arqiva in the UK are trialling H264 MVC using DVB-T2 modulation (also used for the UK's Freeview HD OTA HD service) H264 MVC carries one eye feed using regular H264 compatible with existing 2D H264 receivers, with extra data to allow the other eye to be feed reconstructed in association with the regular H264 signal - with the additional signal requiring approx 60% of the bandwith of the main H264 stream) - so this would allow 2 x 1920x1080/50i or 2 x 1440x1080/50i feeds to be broadcast in 160% of the bandwith of a regular H264 stream of the same resolution and quality, whilst in Aus they've been using side-by-side I believe.

As you point out side-by-side delivers reduced resolution horizontally compared to regular 2D HD and 3D H264 MVC stuff - but then it also requires significantly less bandwith (you could conceivably get 3 x 3D side-by-side services in the same bandwith as 2 3D MVC services) ...

http://www.tvpredictions.com/speed011311.htm

Speed to Air Formula One In HD
By Swanni

Washington, D.C. (January 13, 2011) -- The Speed channel this March will begin airing Formula One racing in High-Definition for the first time.

The Formula season begins March 13 with live coverage of the Bahrain Grand Prix. Speed will air 16 of the season's 20 races with four events airing on Fox.

"We couldn't be more pleased with this decision and our ability to bring our rabid F1 fan base coverage of their favorite racing in HD in 2011. And Speed is going the extra mile, installing continuous fiber service to guarantee the best possible picture quality," said Rick Miner, Speed's senior vice president of production and network operations.

In previous seasons, Formula One Management, which handles the television broadcasts of the races, had delivered a standard-definition feed to all broadcasters worldwide. But the organization decided this year to switch to HD.

Along with Speed, the BBC and Sky Deutschland announced that they will offer the F1 season in high-def.

Hmm, I thought all Fox networks were 720p. Anyways, I know that no one broadcasts 1080p, but for a 1080p set, a 1080i signal showing 1080i material will look better than a 720p signal showing 1080i material. Since the source was 1080i, 720p doesn't offer anything than a downres, which my TV then has to scale up to 1080p. If the signal were 1080i, all my TV would have to do is the deinterlace.

You're right! In my receiver menu I had my native resolution set to off, and read the wrong indicator from my chair. It now confirms that Speed is 720P.My bad;)

My TiVo HD has a Season Pass to the F1 races. So it's been re-recording all the recent replays.

Canadian Grand Prix
Wed 1/12 9:00 am
FiOS 583 SPEED HD
The above was received by my TiVo in 720p/60.

on SPEED HD right now
FIM World Superbike: Portugal, Race 2
The above is currently being received in 720p/60.

I had my native resolution turned off on my receiver,you are correct sir.;) I just happened to have Speed on and watched the Montreal race.

Ok, so we should be getting the races in 720p HD?

Either way I'm hyped and excited for this season after watching F1 Debrief's season preview. :D

This topic has served it's purpose, and is now closed.

The new 2011 F1 topic can be found here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1324312