Does anyone know if the Formula One races are captured with High Definition Equipment and rather or not Speed Channel (who shows the races in the U.S.A) will have any sort of HD option in the near future?

Originally posted by davidan
...(are) Formula One races are captured with High Definition Equipment....(will) Speed Channel....have any sort of HD option in the near future? No & no. Sorry.

Not as long as Bernie is as greedy as he is. He had some sort of TV network he tried to use - I think it failed.

Speed only has a contract to pick up the local feeds and use it. The announcers are back in the US and only see what we do.
There is a chance that if one of the major networks pick up a race Monte Carlo or US GP - they will cover it in HD.

Originally posted by Ken H
No & no. Sorry.


Thats a shame. I would love to see some Formula 1 and rally racing in High Definition.

Speed doesn't produce the video. They just get the feed that's given to them.

A few years ago ABC picked up some Formula 1, but did such a bad job with it I'd rather get it SD than what they had.

As far as my wife and I are concerned, Forumla 1 in HD is the killer app, but I'm not holding my breath waiting for it.

At least we get the USGP in high definition. Stand "A" Penthouse seats for us. :D

Isn't Speed owned by FOX? Maybe they'll show some other racing (Non F1) in High Def? I know NASCAR races in Fox in 2005 are planned to be broadcast in 720p starting with the Daytona 500!!! :)

it was posted on another thread that German cable co. Premiere is planning on HD f1 coverage in 2006 so it appears it will happen in the not too far future. the big ? is who will get the US rights? are you listening Mark Cuban?

jim

HD F1 is a dream - a very, very good dream. It will happen eventually, of course.

Heck, I can't wait until the new season starts. I've been in F1 withdrawal since Brazil.

Mike

Originally posted by dwette
Speed doesn't produce the video. They just get the feed that's given to them.

A few years ago ABC picked up some Formula 1, but did such a bad job with it I'd rather get it SD than what they had.

Yeah, I remember it all too well.... "And now he is being passed by.........{long pause}....................another car....

[B] As far as my wife and I are concerned, Forumla 1 in HD is the killer app, but I'm not holding my breath waiting for it.

At least we get the USGP in high definition. Stand "A" Penthouse seats for us. :D

Paddock Penthouse A Row A.:cool: My avatar is from the hairpin in Montreal. Cheers!

Originally posted by HDntheCity
it was posted on another thread that German cable co. Premiere is planning on HD f1 coverage in 2006 so it appears it will happen in the not too far future. the big ? is who will get the US rights? are you listening Mark Cuban?

jim

Speed got the US rights a few years back for 10 years. Won't be seeing anything other than World Feed SD unless Bernie ressurects a less expensive version of digital feed

Originally posted by thepicman

Paddock Penthouse A Row A.:cool: My avatar is from the hairpin in Montreal. Cheers!

We were in the Paddock Penthouse C last year, but wanted to get closer to turn 13 and pit row, so now we're Stand A Penthouse Row D


Anyone know if "F1 2004" for PS2 is getting a US release. We have an XBox, but I may get PS2 if that game is available.

Dean

Originally posted by A4Short
Not as long as Bernie is as greedy as he is. He had some sort of TV network he tried to use - I think it failed.

Speed only has a contract to pick up the local feeds and use it. The announcers are back in the US and only see what we do.
There is a chance that if one of the major networks pick up a race Monte Carlo or US GP - they will cover it in HD.

The Bernie-network was exclusively for PPV. Once they did that, the world-feed went to crap (I think this was in '94) to coerce the PPV crowd...and it still hasn't gotten back to the pre-94 level. I don't think you'll see HD F1 until Bernie decrees it. If he's stupid enough to make it PPV, that will also fail. Do local broadcasters still do the F1 races? I thought that was all in the past...

Originally posted by thepicman
Paddock Penthouse A Row A.:cool: My avatar is from the hairpin in Montreal. Cheers!

See you from Grandstand 12...

HD F1 would be pretty darn cool. There is not quite enough interest in F1 here in the states to warrant it.

Will be nice enough having the entire Nascar schedule in HD. (For those of you that are Nascar fans). Maybe F1 and IRL down the road.

Originally posted by colossus
See you from Grandstand 12...

Do any of you hang at the Hoosier BMWCCA car corral for the USGP? We'll be there for the third time this year (Black 2002 530i Sport).

I know that FOX announced that they will do all of their NASCAR races this year in 720 HD. Will that include the races on FX?

Also what about NBC, will their stuff by HD or not for NASCAR?

Originally posted by davidan
I know that FOX announced that they will do all of their NASCAR races this year in 720 HD. Will that include the races on FX?

Also what about NBC, will their stuff by HD or not for NASCAR? I doubt that will include FX. Probably FOX only.

As for NBC, I heard that they stepped up to the plate as well and announced they would do all of theirs in HD (Although I can't point to any concrete info. Just heresay). Once agin this is proabbly only for races on NBC. Not sure about those they televise on TNT.

If ANY racing series should be broadcast in HD, its got to be F1 as they claim technological superiority in all things racing. I can't image Bernie didn't have the foresight to exclude HD rights from his current contractual relationships since HD would be yet another opportunity for him to make $. Does anyone know if Speed TV's rights are US exclusive broadcast rights or US exclusive SD rights?

Originally posted by davidan
I know that FOX announced that they will do all of their NASCAR races this year in 720 HD. Will that include the races on FX?

Also what about NBC, will their stuff by HD or not for NASCAR?

NASCAR in HD still doesn't change the fact it's just cars going around in circles. So now we get nicer looking circles. :D

Imagine the havoc it would wreck if they snuck just one little chicane in there.

Sorry, couldn't resist....

Originally posted by dwette
Imagine the havoc it would wreck if they snuck just one little chicane in there.Well, Nascar has been tossing in one (?maybe two?) "Street Races" for the past couple years. And yes ... there's usually quite a bit of havoc.

There's a 06/26/05 Nascar race at Infineon:
http://www.nascar.com/races/tracks/spr/index.html

Originally posted by dwette
NASCAR in HD still doesn't change the fact it's just cars going around in circles. So now we get nicer looking circles. :D

Imagine the havoc it would wreck if they snuck just one little chicane in there.

Sorry, couldn't resist....

I new it wouldn't take long before someone made a Nascar joke. As a fan of both series and I can admit they both have their advantages. Nascar's being that the races are far more competitive and entertaining. F1's advantage is that the series is technologically incredible.

Originally posted by coomarlin
I doubt that will include FX. Probably FOX only.A general 20th Century Fox HD (FX-HD?) channel would be pretty cool ...

Like UniversalHD and DiscoveryHD ... lots of properties to pick content from (for a generic FOX-HD channel), including:
20th Century Fox Library
Fox Movie Channel
Fox News Channel
Fox College Sports
Fox Sports Net
FX
National Geographic
SPEED
Fuel
Fox

They could even fill the air with reruns and old content for a few years (imagine that).

I asked my contacts at speed about HD a year ago and there was absolutely no talk about moving over. I could ask again and see if there are any grumblings. I do a show on the network though and I would think they would mention it to me if they were.

Well NASCAR is doing something right they have become the 2nd most viewed sport behind NFL, and are widely regarded as the fastest growing support. Once you attend a race in person and see what really goes on, you will be hooked, and no it's not just about going round and round in circles ...

It also has to be kept in mind that Europe has almost no HD infrastructure. I think they have one DBS channel for HD. Aside from Australia, Canada, and Japan, there is pretty much Zero HDTV out there. Until that changes, I doubt we'll see anything improve for the European Series. (F1 & WRC)

I have read about a special "digtial" PPV package that F1 had a few season ago. I think it was also 540i/p 16x9 (what ever that PAL Widescreen standard is). So it was a near HD experience. They also had multiple camera angles to choose from. Sorta like Champ Car's Race Director.

Originally posted by davidan
Well NASCAR is doing something right they have become the 2nd most viewed sport behind NFL, and are widely regarded as the fastest growing support. Once you attend a race in person and see what really goes on, you will be hooked, and no it's not just about going round and round in circles ...

I understand NASCAR is extremely popular. Nevertheless, it holds absolutely no appeal for me whatsoever, and hasn't in the 30+ years I've been into motorsports. Since I was 8 years old building model cars in my basement, I always liked European style GP racing and never was attracted to home grown motorsports like NASCAR, Drag Racing, etc. I doubt I'll attend a NASCAR race as long as there's an abundance of the kind of motorsports I like.

New for me this year will be watching WRC. I've seen bit and pieces on SPEED now and then, but since I've been playing Rallisport Chanllenge 2 and Colin McRae on XBox, I've become more interested.

Dean

Originally posted by davidan
Well NASCAR is doing something right they have become the 2nd most viewed sport behind NFL, and are widely regarded as the fastest growing support. Once you attend a race in person and see what really goes on, you will be hooked, and no it's not just about going round and round in circles ...

Uh, 2nd most viewed sport in the USA. The biggest NASCAR race- I'm assuming this is Daytona- doesn't touch the world's audience for, say, the GP of Monaco.

After I went to the race at the Pocono circuit, I left thinking the exact opposite of what you've said. That race proved to me that NASCAR is not about racing anymore. It's about spectacle, entertainment instead of racing, mayhem, and sponsors. Just my opinion :)

Originally posted by CycloneGT
It also has to be kept in mind that Europe has almost no HD infrastructure. I think they have one DBS channel for HD. Aside from Australia, Canada, and Japan, there is pretty much Zero HDTV out there. Until that changes, I doubt we'll see anything improve for the European Series. (F1 & WRC)

If the broadcasts are local in origination, I would think Suzuka would be HD-able, Indy, Montréal, etc...are they local or does Bernie run that too?

Originally posted by davidan
Does anyone know if the Formula One races are captured with High Definition Equipment and rather or not Speed Channel (who shows the races in the U.S.A) will have any sort of HD option in the near future?
YES!!!!!!! IT WILL
Originally posted by KevinH
No & NO Sorry!
NOT TRUE!!
Last year one of the British Website said they would show Formula 1 Racing and Rally racing in HD. So far on the new HD channels 29HD Network, this channel is available in the USA but we have to bug our Satellite carriers to get it. Speed get a lot of their footage from this Network although not in HD format. We all need to request 29HDnetwork!!

See for yourself here! Look under "Automotive Life" http://www.29hdnetwork.com/

I couldn't find references on that site, got a more direct link?

Originally posted by colossus
Uh, 2nd most viewed sport in the USA. The biggest NASCAR race- I'm assuming this is Daytona- doesn't touch the world's audience for, say, the GP of Monaco.


Not to mention, popular doesn't imply good or worthy. Britney Spears is popular, but I'm not running out to buy her CD of digitally enhanced and pitch-corrected vocals (I can't bring my self to call it singing).

I'm not saying NASCAR is as bad as Spears, but make the point that just because much of America tunes in doesn't (in and of itself) make it legitimate racing. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but you can't say so merely by number of viewers.

Dean

Originally posted by dwette
Not to mention, popular doesn't imply good or worthy. Britney Spears is popular, but I'm not running out to buy her CD of digitally enhanced and pitch-corrected vocals (I can't bring my self to call it singing).

I'm not saying NASCAR is as bad as Spears, but make the point that just because much of America tunes in doesn't (in and of itself) make it legitimate racing. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but you can't say so merely by number of viewers.

Dean

Having Farrari officials telling Rubens to pull over and let Michael pass isn't real racing in a lot of peoples eyes either. Neither is having 2 cars on the lead lap and winning by 1 minute and 30 seconds. Everyone has their likes and dislikes.

Originally posted by coomarlin
Having Farrari officials telling Rubens to pull over and let Michael pass isn't real racing in a lot of peoples eyes either. Neither is having 2 cars on the lead lap and winning by 1 minute and 30 seconds. Everyone has their likes and dislikes.

That was a stunt that no one (except Ferrari mgt) liked, but it didn't invalidate the sport. Fans pretty much universally agreed it was unsportsman like and the FIA fined Ferrari and made it clear that it wouldn't be tolerated in the future. I consider it a non-issue at this point.

Originally posted by dwette
That was a stunt that no one (except Ferrari mgt) liked, but it didn't invalidate the sport. Fans pretty much universally agreed it was unsportsman like and the FIA fined Ferrari and made it clear that it wouldn't be tolerated in the future. I consider it a non-issue at this point.

You may consider it a non-issue, but it still goes to coomarlin's point. Everyone has different tastes.

Some like F1, some like Nascar, some like both.

I happen to enjoy both. (also rally racing, drag racing, etc) F1 for the technology in the cars, the speeds, and skill of the drivers. Nascar for the competition, strategy, and skill of the drivers. There are other pluses for each obviously, I'm just stating why I like each.

Originally posted by CycloneGT
I couldn't find references on that site, got a more direct link?

No direct link, scoll down to the highlighted grey bar that says
"AUTOMOTIVE LIFE" Directcly under that grey bar is the link. click on it and you will see the WRC coverage from NOV.!!!

http://www.29hdnetwork.com/

Originally posted by Smthkd
No direct link, scoll down to the highlighted grey bar that says
"AUTOMOTIVE LIFE" Directcly under that grey bar is the link. click on it and you will see the WRC coverage from NOV.!!!

http://www.29hdnetwork.com/

Photo courtesy of Ford Media? I don't think I understand what you think this is?

Seems like its just a picture. American Privateer looks cool though. Following a DAKAR competitor in HD sounds fun.

Well...Montreal GP enthusiasts better go either this year or next 'cause the circuit's got 2 years left on its contract...and then it will be gone forever.

Euro1080, http://www.hd-1.tv, maybe the first to broadcast F1 races in HD.

This Avid press release mentions Formula One and the purchase of post-production HD equipment.
http://uk.avid.com/company/press/generic_intl_press.asp?taxID=1418

Originally posted by Smthkd
No direct link, scoll down to the highlighted grey bar that says
"AUTOMOTIVE LIFE" Directcly under that grey bar is the link. click on it and you will see the WRC coverage from NOV.!!!

http://www.29hdnetwork.com/ Ok, I saw that, but there really isn't anything describing what show it was. It could be anything from a 15 min news bite, or a full 2hr race coverage show. What exactly was their coverage, and what about F1?

BTW: I thought Francois Delacour was ouf of the Focus back in 2002?

Originally posted by CycloneGT Ok, I saw that, but there really isn't anything describing what show it was. It could be anything from a 15 min news bite, or a full 2hr race coverage show. What exactly was their coverage, and what about F1?
BTW: I thought Francois Delacour was ouf of the Focus back in 2002?


Earlier in 2004 they 29 HDNetwork had a whole cover story on WRC how they would begain following and broadcasting it in HD! This picture is from FORD in EUROPE not FORD of AMERICA, that car you see is the Ford Focus RS for those who dont know! But in any case, 29HDNetwork continued that they would show future WRC races and F1 races in 2005. This was a actual covverage from Nov. 11 - 14 2004! Sound like more than 15min or 2 hours to me!!!
Originally posted by CycloneGT
BTW: I thought Francois Delacour was out of the Focus back in 2002?

Your Right! so did Colin McRae, Francois Delacour got into the Mitsubishi Lancer EVO in 2002! but this picture is about FRANCOIS DUVAL NOT DELACOUR! He drove the Ford Focus RS in 2004 so the picture is correct. However, Duval will be leaving Ford in 2005 for Citroen!!

See Links:
http://www.motorsportsracingnews.com/sresults.asp?SanctionID=840&StoryID=139279
2005 Citroen:
http://www.citroen.com.au/cms/default.asp?action=article&ID=8002

Originally posted by vermonter
Well...Montreal GP enthusiasts better go either this year or next 'cause the circuit's got 2 years left on its contract...and then it will be gone forever.

Care to explain? Does this have to do w/tobacco advertising again?

After the silliness of dropping and then "negotiating" the Canadian GP back onto the calendar it was revealed that they also negotiated a 3 year deal..with last year being year 1 of 3. In addition to that thought; there are now 19 races; Canada is one of the oldest facilities (with the oldest garages, press center etc) and with more f1 circuits coming on (Cancun, Turkey, maybe Russia, South Africa and others) I'd say its probably all over in 2 more years.

Of course if they extort more money out of the promoters and the government anything could happen.

Being really pessimistic I'd wager Indy is a possibility to be dropped too....

Originally posted by dwette

New for me this year will be watching WRC. I've seen bit and pieces on SPEED now and then, but since I've been playing Rallisport Chanllenge 2 and Colin McRae on XBox, I've become more interested.

Dean

That's what got me hooked on the MotoGP series 2yrs ago.... the MotoGP game on Xbox! Playing that game, then watching the real guys on Speed... the hook was set. I'm still a huge F1 fan, but the actual racing in F1 is getting pretty boring. MotoGP is far more exciting, especially with an American (Nicky Hayden) always in the hunt for a podium finish.

Originally posted by vermonter

Being really pessimistic I'd wager Indy is a possibility to be dropped too....

Indy has a contract thru 2006 I believe. Hard to say whether it will get extended beyond that, as the USGP doesn't have nearly the draw of the Indy 500 or Brickyard 400.

However, Bernie has stated he's eager to keep a GP in the US and said last year he wants to add a second one, possible in NYC or Long Beach. I'm hopng for a Long Beach GP since I have family in LA. With family in Indy it's a no brainer to go to the current GP. The wife and I take a road trip (from St. Louis about 3.5 hrs), stay with relatives in Indy, and park/eat at the Hossier BMWCCA USGP car corral. The USGP weekend costs us less than $500 total for tickets, gas, parking, food, etc. A Long Beach GP would cost a bit more for us, but not a lot.

Originally posted by vermonter
After the silliness of dropping and then "negotiating" the Canadian GP back onto the calendar it was revealed that they also negotiated a 3 year deal..with last year being year 1 of 3. In addition to that thought; there are now 19 races; Canada is one of the oldest facilities (with the oldest garages, press center etc) and with more f1 circuits coming on (Cancun, Turkey, maybe Russia, South Africa and others) I'd say its probably all over in 2 more years.

Of course if they extort more money out of the promoters and the government anything could happen.

Being really pessimistic I'd wager Indy is a possibility to be dropped too....

Oldest? No chance. Silverstone, Imola, Monza, Hockenheim, Spa are all older.

Bernie gets what he wants, but another race in USA? Think of the Spanish GP in the early-to-mid 90s. Those look well attended compared to what you'd see in a second US GP. How is attendance at the US GP lately?

In addition, I expect both the European GP (what a f'ing joke that is) and Imola to go away. Imola, I'd hate to see leave- that track and Spa ought to be as permanent as Monaco.

I can't see the FIA tossing out Montreal. Why? Because in less than five years, be the only race in North America. Again.

So long as these races have the action of a well-oiled chess tournament, you're not going to capture the American audience.

Originally posted by colossus
Those look well attended compared to what you'd see in a second US GP. How is attendance at the US GP lately?

I

Even though the gate has declined over the years, The USGP is still the largest attendence of all of the GPs.

Originally posted by thepicman
Even though the gate has declined over the years, The USGP is still the largest attendence of all of the GPs.

For the 2004 USGP:

Practiice: 40,000
Qualifying: 60,000
Race Day: 125,000

It's not the numbers that Indy 500 draws, but quite good by F1 standards.

By F1 standards, Indy is in the middle of nowhere. If the USGP gets relocated, expect it to be in a more Comso location such as LA, NY, or South FL.

Originally posted by CycloneGT
By F1 standards, Indy is in the middle of nowhere. If the USGP gets relocated, expect it to be in a more Comso location such as LA, NY, or South FL.

I think Bernie and the drivers like having the USGP at Indy. It is one of the most famous and most popular tracks in the world. It's the owners of Indy who are more resistant. It doesn't have the draw they want, and the USGP comes so soon after the 500 they have to scramble to get the track ready.

Magny Couers is out in the countryside, practically in the middle of a cornfield, so being in a large city isn't really that important.

Bernie did want a second GP at NYC or Long Beach, but I think with Mexico coming that idea has been shelved.

Originally posted by thepicman
Even though the gate has declined over the years, The USGP is still the largest attendence of all of the GPs.

The decline is showing something- IMS, compared to Montréal's circuit G-V, is a lousy place to attend a race. Anybody that's experienced the nightlife around St Catherine knows what I mean. I don't think it's a leap of faith to assume that the majority of ticket sales are from out-of-towners. A decline in seating, IMO, means the novelty is wearing off. People go to Montréal for the race. They return for the city.

The cheap tickets, due to the insane amount of seats at IMS, are the reason sales are high. I don't think a US GP in Phoenix, Long Beach, Road America, or Elkhart would do as well.

It`s all on SPEED. The german Pay TV Provider (which will start 3 HDTV Channels in Sports, Movies and Docu) released for Sport HD: "Our main content for 2006 are the World Cup of Soccer, Formula One and the Winter Olympics. All live and in HD".

But I can`t believe that SPEED is going HD any time soon. I think that`s the major Problem, if they have the rights for like the next 10 years. The other thing is, Europe is all in MPEG4 for HD, which the US just slide in. That means if they catch up with the international feed, it would be probaly in MPEG4.


DougMan

Originally posted by DougMan
...The other thing is, Europe is all in MPEG4 for HD, which the US just slide in. That means if they catch up with the international feed, it would be probaly in MPEG4.

Las Vegas, NV Jan 6, 2005 Continuing to establish milestones in technological achievement and advancements that enhance the television entertainment experience, DIRECTV, Inc., the nation's leading and fastest- growing digital television service provider today demonstrated the world's first live MPEG-4 AVC/DVB-S2 (Moving Picture Expert Group - Advanced Video Compression/Digital Video Broadcast - Satellite 2) high-definition (HD) transmission via satellite at the 2005 International Consumer Electronics Show (CES).

For more see the press release (http://www.directv.com./DTVAPP/aboutus/headline.dsp?id=01-06-2005C)

Originally posted by DougMan
It`s all on SPEED. The german Pay TV Provider (which will start 3 HDTV Channels in Sports, Movies and Docu) released for Sport HD: "Our main content for 2006 are the World Cup of Soccer, Formula One and the Winter Olympics. All live and in HD".

But I can`t believe that SPEED is going HD any time soon. I think that`s the major Problem, if they have the rights for like the next 10 years. The other thing is, Europe is all in MPEG4 for HD, which the US just slide in. That means if they catch up with the international feed, it would be probaly in MPEG4.


DougMan

Not everything will be MPEG4 in Europe (French surprisingly chose MPEG2 and Sky has not made decision yet) and besides it really has no bearing how the feed would be transmitted to US. They can use high bit rate MPEG2, MPEG4 or even send the feed uncompressed.

You should not make assumptions what will happen in US as D* is going to MPEG4 and so will E*.

In other words, even if European feeds are MPEG4, its no big deal for E* or D* to change it over to MPEG2 for US feeds.

I could see this being a "HD Events" channel event.

Originally posted by colossus
The decline is showing something- IMS, compared to Montréal's circuit G-V, is a lousy place to attend a race. Anybody that's experienced the nightlife around St Catherine knows what I mean. I don't think it's a leap of faith to assume that the majority of ticket sales are from out-of-towners. A decline in seating, IMO, means the novelty is wearing off. People go to Montréal for the race. They return for the city.


Having been to both, I can agree that the city of Montreal is a MUCH better place to go to a race. The streets around New Town are a blast. You just can't see much of the track at CGV. We always sit in the hairpin, which is great, but I sometimes miss the spectator hill near the Fosters Curves at IMS. Both are a lot of fun.

Originally posted by CKNA
Not everything will be MPEG4 in Europe (French surprisingly chose MPEG2 and Sky has not made decision yet) and besides it really has no bearing how the feed would be transmitted to US. They can use high bit rate MPEG2, MPEG4 or even send the feed uncompressed.

You should not make assumptions what will happen in US as D* is going to MPEG4 and so will E*.

If Sky has not chosen their compression scheme yet, them I can imaging that it should be a fairly good bet that Sky will follow Directv's lead and provide MPEG4. Of course my rambling is all speculation but it would seem that the two companies are getting closer together.

Originally posted by CKNA
Not everything will be MPEG4 in Europe (French surprisingly chose MPEG2 and Sky has not made decision yet) and besides it really has no bearing how the feed would be transmitted to US. They can use high bit rate MPEG2, MPEG4 or even send the feed uncompressed.

You should not make assumptions what will happen in US as D* is going to MPEG4 and so will E*.



Sky has chosen both codecs, but MPEG4 over MPEG2 for the fact that you have more Volume to fill in with channels, but it isn`t really on Sky cause they do not show the Formula One. They beaten by an FTA Channel.

However, I think MPEG4 hasn`t really a future here in the USA, cause if I look through the other Thread about MPEG4 there are many people complaining about new Equipment costs. If D* would go MPEG4, or even over antenna it would be a huge change, cause all people have to buy a new Receiver if they don`t get an upgrade.

I agree with you, that it doesn`t matter how the feed comes in (MPEG4 or MPEG2), but it`s always better if you can pick it up and just slide through.

The biggest fact is SPEED, I see there a huge Problem, cause I don`t think that they go HD in the next 2 years, because there is no mass sport in this category, which is shoot in HD. I don`t know if HD could make second rights issues.


DougMan

Originally posted by DougMan
Sky has chosen both codecs, but MPEG4 over MPEG2 for the fact that you have more Volume to fill in with channels, but it isn`t really on Sky cause they do not show the Formula One. They beaten by an FTA Channel.

However, I think MPEG4 hasn`t really a future here in the USA, cause if I look through the other Thread about MPEG4 there are many people complaining about new Equipment costs. If D* would go MPEG4, or even over antenna it would be a huge change, cause all people have to buy a new Receiver if they don`t get an upgrade.

DougMan

Huh? Didn't D* just announce MPEG4. There is a lot of speculation about how D* will handle receiver swaps.

Originally posted by sleeks
Huh? Didn't D* just announce MPEG4. There is a lot of speculation about how D* will handle receiver swaps.

Yes, they did, but it isn`t a small thing to handle the Receiver issue. I`m pretty interested about how they`ll handle that.

This would be a huge flip.


DougMan

This article:

CBS to show four Races (http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns14087.html)

states that CBS will show four races this year plus various 'up close and personal' shows for a total of around 10 hours of coverage. They will show San Marino, Nurburgring, Barcelona and then the Montreal race live. I wonder if the Canadian race is covered in HD by the local networks and if CBS might pick that up?

Also I wonder about the relationship between DEC Entertainment which has the rights in North AMerica and Speed? Anyone?

Originally posted by DougMan
Yes, they did, but it isn`t a small thing to handle the Receiver issue. I`m pretty interested about how they`ll handle that.

This would be a huge flip.


DougMan

I agree that it isn't a small thing to swap receivers. My guess is that it will be a Very slow process and only those who opt for HD locals (LIL) will be swapped initially.

That being said, my response was to the post that said that he believed that MPEG 4 did not have a future in the US. D* would not have announced MPEG 4 without thinking through receiver swaps. I believe it does have a future here.

Originally posted by RichardL
This article:

CBS to show four Races (http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns14087.html)

states that CBS will show four races this year plus various 'up close and personal' shows for a total of around 10 hours of coverage. They will show San Marino, Nurburgring, Barcelona and then the Montreal race live. I wonder if the Canadian race is covered in HD by the local networks and if CBS might pick that up?

Also I wonder about the relationship between DEC Entertainment which has the rights in North AMerica and Speed? Anyone?

If they don't do it in HD, there's no point for me since I like the Speed commentators.

So will CBS use commentators as clueless as the ABC ones from a couple years ago?

Originally posted by RichardL
This article:

CBS to show four Races (http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns14087.html)

states that CBS will show four races this year plus various 'up close and personal' shows for a total of around 10 hours of coverage. They will show San Marino, Nurburgring, Barcelona and then the Montreal race live. I wonder if the Canadian race is covered in HD by the local networks and if CBS might pick that up?

Also I wonder about the relationship between DEC Entertainment which has the rights in North AMerica and Speed? Anyone?

Very odd. All I can say is that when CBS and NBC show ALMS races, the Speed crew still do the show.

Originally posted by thepicman

My avatar is from the hairpin in Montreal. Cheers!

Hey! That's where we sit for the Canadian GP. We're at the exit of the hairpin, even with the apex.

As an American, I have more fun in Montreal. It's fun to be the stranger in a strange land. I don't speak any french...

F1 in HD would be a great way to spend Sunday mornings!

Originally posted by dwette
If they don't do it in HD, there's no point for me since I like the Speed commentators.

So will CBS use commentators as clueless as the ABC ones from a couple years ago?

Geez, years ago I used to get up at 5AM so I could start looking for the World Feed among sixteen or seventeen C-Band satellites. My choice of commentators where either the Japanese from their feed to Japan via NHK or normal sound,eg the sound of the cars and no one telling me what I was seeing. This was without commercial interruptions and it made it much better than listening to someone say..."this is what happened wile we were out during commercial break" or something like that! Like you, I really like Varsha, but not having him at the mike would not stop me from watching F-1. The racing always takes precedence over the commentators.

Anyone know if there has been any new talks on this subject?

I didn't read through this thread but I thought I heard one time talk about an F1 HD Pay Per Veiw. I also thought I heard that there were some countries that already use HD cameras for their feeds but it is downconverted to speed channel.

EJ

Hey Erik & all -

Any recomendations for satellite provider? I have cable now, but would entertain a cheap dish alternative. With speed on it, of course.

I wish these guys would just race at 8:00 pm!

Hey Erik & all -

Any recomendations for satellite provider? I have cable now, but would entertain a cheap dish alternative. With speed on it, of course.

I wish these guys would just race at 8:00 pm!
We've had DirecTV for years and are happy with it. And we have Tivo with our DirecTV, so no getting up at 6 AM to watch the races.

We've had DirecTV for years and are happy with it. And we have Tivo with our DirecTV, so no getting up at 6 AM to watch the races.

We just have to set our DVRs for the race time, and try very hard not to read any headlines on any news site till we can watch the race in its entirety, lest we happen upon spoilers about the race results. [sort of like the Olympics.. if you really want to enjoy the competitions on the delayed telecasts, you have to avoid visiting the news sites like the plague]

We just have to set our DVRs for the race time, and try very hard not to read any headlines on any news site till we can watch the race in its entirety, lest we happen upon spoilers about the race results. [sort of like the Olympics.. if you really want to enjoy the competitions on the delayed telecasts, you have to avoid visiting the news sites like the plague]
Right. I have to remember to not look at my RSS feeds or news webstites before I've watched the race. But unlike the Olympics, the US media could pretty much care less about F1, and results tend to be buried away somewhere.

Typically, my wife and I watch right after getting up on Sunday. But ocassionally, she works Sunday and I have to bite my tongue all day until 8 PM. Sometimes I just can't stand it and watch it anyway, and watch it again when my wife gets home.

Now if we could just get WRC coverage back again. I missing the races, and am tempted to subscribe to WRC+ (at wrc.com) for $60 -- it would be cool if I could get video I could stream to my XBox 360.

Can't wait! Season starts in three days!!! I could live with Speed's SD cov. of F1 as long as I have my F1...

long time Tifosi

Right. I have to remember to not look at my RSS feeds or news webstites before I've watched the race. But unlike the Olympics, the US media could pretty much care less about F1, and results tend to be buried away somewhere.

Typically, my wife and I watch right after getting up on Sunday. But ocassionally, she works Sunday and I have to bite my tongue all day until 8 PM. Sometimes I just can't stand it and watch it anyway, and watch it again when my wife gets home.

Now if we could just get WRC coverage back again. I missing the races, and am tempted to subscribe to WRC+ (at wrc.com) for $60 -- it would be cool if I could get video I could stream to my XBox 360.

Yeah, F1, WRC and the Top Gear series really deserve HD treatment. F1 is the pinnacle of auto racing technology and it being telecast in SD is not befitting. WRC has so many beautiful locales that if shown in HD would be simply superb.

And last but not the least, the Top Gear series is what every car show should be, and if there is one show I'd love to see in HD more than anything else, it'd be Top Gear. It is a pity that Discovery doesn't carry this show more often.

long time Tifosi
My loyalty has to go with BMW, so I'm hoping for BMW Sauber F1 to surprise us all.

Yeah, F1, WRC and the Top Gear series really deserve HD treatment. F1 is the pinnacle of auto racing technology and it being telecast in SD is not befitting. WRC has so many beautiful locales that if shown in HD would be simply superb.
WRC would be awesome in HD, but as we don't even get it at all, I'll gladly settle for SD.

My loyalty has to go with BMW, so I'm hoping for BMW Sauber F1 to surprise us all.
Heh, not with Villeneuve behind the wheel you won't. Maybe with Heidfeld, but not very likely. I would like to see BMW get back into competitiveness, though.

Heh, not with Villeneuve behind the wheel you won't. Maybe with Heidfeld, but not very likely. I would like to see BMW get back into competitiveness, though.
I think Heidfeld has an excellent chance of doing well if the F1.06 is a good car. Villeneuve was great once before -- he could suprise us with a comback. Maybe all he needs is the right team. Nevertheless, when I'm at Indy this summer I'll be wearing BMW colors regardless.

I wake up to watch most of the time. On rare occasions the DVR catches it. Of course the DVR is always set to record though just in case of emergency. I live in FL so it comes on at a reasonable time. I have been waking up for the races since Shumy was still in a Bennaton. The worst was when I was living in AZ before DVR's were around. The damn races were on at like 4am.

EJ

I wake up to watch most of the time. On rare occasions the DVR catches it. Of course the DVR is always set to record though just in case of emergency. I live in FL so it comes on at a reasonable time. I have been waking up for the races since Shumy was still in a Bennaton. The worst was when I was living in AZ before DVR's were around. The damn races were on at like 4am.

EJ

Heh, good to see F1 fanatics in the States.. May be we can have a discussion thread for talking about the F1 season this year !!

Now if we could just get WRC coverage back again. I missing the races, and am tempted to subscribe to WRC+ (at wrc.com) for $60 -- it would be cool if I could get video I could stream to my XBox 360.

What happened to WRC on Speed? I've been looking for it but it's not listed. Sounds like they didn't pick it up this year. Does another network have US rights?

F1 and WRC are only things I ever watch(ed) on Speed.

Can't wait for Bahrain this weekend!

What happened to WRC on Speed? I've been looking for it but it's not listed. Sounds like they didn't pick it up this year. Does another network have US rights?

F1 and WRC are only things I ever watch(ed) on Speed.

Can't wait for Bahrain this weekend!
Right now there is no televised coverage of WRC in the U.S. There are numerous threads about this in the forums over at the Speed Channel website.

Heh, good to see F1 fanatics in the States.. May be we can have a discussion thread for talking about the F1 season this year !!

So start one in the right forum and let us know where it is :D

edit: I just looked and realized that we have no "coffee house" to BS in. Did I miss it?

My loyalty has to go with BMW, so I'm hoping for BMW Sauber F1 to surprise us all.

Yeah, I'm with the Bimmers too! However, I don't expect much success for at least two years.

Still hurting about no WRC tv coverage. Never thought I'd see that day come!

OK, let me ask another way. What is the cheapest way to get satellite which includes speed & HD programming. Speed would be first priority.

My first exposure to F1 was the inaugural race at Indy. Hooked ever since. Great racing, they turn left & right, they race in the rain, and they start from a dead stop. I don't miss launch control and I wish they ran with a manual stick.

I had to pick a team, so I picked Maclaren. I guess I was more exposed to Mercedes than big red, renault, etc. Anyway, DC is a Scot, so that helped. Kind of hard to be overly excited about RB, but what the hey. Kimi's good too, and an exciting public speaker. Plus, Ted Bell drives a Maclaren SLR, which is cool.

Wasn't the second race right after 9/11? We didn't go, and I'm sure safety reduced the attendance. I miss the BMW team of years ago - they always had great wrecks, usually with each other, and often on the first lap.

One race was especially entertaining... right before the race, shoemaker drove an old Maserrati grand prix car, then the new (street) convertible. I was expecting him to jump into the Dodge ram track pickup after that. It was especially sweet in that this was right before the start of the race.

Marshall

...miss the BMW team of years ago - they always had great wrecks, usually with each other, and often on the first lap.
That would be Jaguar. :eek:

Right now there is no televised coverage of WRC in the U.S. There are numerous threads about this in the forums over at the Speed Channel website.

Thanks for the info. I can't view the Speed website due to the Flash requirements. I wonder why Speed doesn't carry WRC this year?

Yeah, F1, WRC and the Top Gear series really deserve HD treatment. F1 is the pinnacle of auto racing technology and it being telecast in SD is not befitting.

I consider myself a borderline F1 fan. I'm more fo a Nascar guy, but I'll watch F1 if it's on when I paging through the channels. But if F1 was ever delivered to the States in HD, I'd be hooked.

I thought I heard that Fox was looking to develop an new HD channel that would carry programming in HD from their other cable channels - FX, Speed, etc. I would hope that the F1 would be part of that channel.

Marshall,
I am a dishnet subscriber. They do have the best HD programming with the most full bandwidth channels. As far a price comparison I have not priced them out but in the past I think dnet has been the cheapest for minimum programming anyway. I also am not sure what package you need to get speek but I would guess speed is part of the Top100 package.

EJ

I thought I heard that Fox was looking to develop an new HD channel that would carry programming in HD from their other cable channels - FX, Speed, etc. I would hope that the F1 would be part of that channel.
That won't help where F1 is concerned because Speed doesn't produce the race footage for F1 races in the first place. I imagine it'll be a long time before we see F1 in HD, especially since Europe is behind us in adopting HDTV.

Not to mention, I'm beginning to think eventually Speed will be nothing but NASCAR circus programming and reality shows.

Are they doing F1 decade this year?

As I stated before about two years ago I seem to remebember Bernie Eccelstone possibley working on some type of deal to make F1 a PPV. It was in these same discussions that HD was brought up if I remember correctly.

EJ

As I stated before about two years ago I seem to remebember Bernie Eccelstone possibley working on some type of deal to make F1 a PPV. It was in these same discussions that HD was brought up if I remember correctly.

EJ
Bernie says an awful lot of things that go absolutely nowhere. And it's usually to extract more money out of those he already has agreements with. So when the HD PPV thing came up, it was probably a ploy by Bernie to get more revenue from the TV agreements he already had in place.

That digital PPV from Bernie never took off because he was charging too much for the feed, something like 50 euros back in 2002, but I've seen one race from Hockenheim and this guy's TV feed had 6 screens to choose from with his STB's remote, set-up much like each team's wall pit monitors but all in one box.

Anyway, two days left and that new qualifying format should be better than the last 8 years!

Anyway, two days left and that new qualifying format should be better than the last 8 years!
For TV viewers, I think a lot of whether the new quali is good or not will depend on how it's covered. But I imagine it'll be changed several times before I arrive at the USGP this summer to see it live.

Here is a promotional clip (http://www.broadbandbananas.com/f1user.wmv) of Digital PPV from Bernievision. I actually like what I see, but its a shame that it was priced out of practicality.

Funny thing about those Europeans. They would rather have a GP with 40% attendence and $600 ticket prices, rather than lower the prices and fill the place up. Malaysia is even worse. That track appears to be only 20% full.

Still when the power of IPTV and Fios are fully recognized, things like this multi-screen will really become common. Especially for things like NFL ST or other sports packages. Dish does something like this now with the Olympic/Election showcases.

This was especially true when Dish ran their "mult-angle" college footballs games from TBS last fall. They ran six different feeds (ie angles) of the same football game on individual channels. They they used their "showcase" software to all a view to see a mosaic of all six angles, and then select any individual angle to be fullscreen. Worked pretty well actually. I would love to see such a service offered for racing.

Back in 2001-2002, Sky in the UK had the F1 Digital Plus PPV package for all F1 races. It was commercial free, 16x9 SD, multiple channels showing multiple views of the practice, qualifying, and the race plus real time telemetry data. This was a great package, but a bit ahead of its time. Plus it was something like $12 a race and no season package option. I think it was a great product for die hard F1 fans and I hope that someday, this will be an option in the States, even if it was on the Internet.

Back in 2001-2002, Sky in the UK had the F1 Digital Plus PPV package for all F1 races. It was commercial free, 16x9 SD, multiple channels showing multiple views of the practice, qualifying, and the race plus real time telemetry data. This was a great package, but a bit ahead of its time. Plus it was something like $12 a race and no season package option. I think it was a great product for die hard F1 fans and I hope that someday, this will be an option in the States, even if it was on the Internet.
I would pay $12 a race for something really well done.

When F1 starts getting broadcast in Europe in Hi-def then maybe there's a chance it'll get her, but from what I can tell hd is only starting to take off in Europe and this years world cup is the big jumpstart.

Roll on Kimi this year, I have my tickets for the race in Barcelona so that'll be awesome.

Judging by how (relative to regular SD) good the upconverted skiing etc looked at the Olympics, it would be pretty good to see the 576i widescreen feed upconverted, instead of downconverted to 480i

When F1 starts getting broadcast in Europe in Hi-def then maybe there's a chance it'll get her, but from what I can tell hd is only starting to take off in Europe and this years world cup is the big jumpstart.

In the US, Speed has the rights to F1 and since they are not a channel that broadcasts in HD anyway...

In Canada, it's another story. TSN is has the rights to the F-1 races and they broadcast whatever they can in HD. As soon as these races are filmed by someone in HD, i'm quite certain TSN will carry them that way. I wonder how much F-1 would suffer from motion blurr in 1080i? F1 would be freakin awesome in 1080P/60 BluRay with 6 channel lossless audio to make you go death just as if you where there :D Better get those earplugs ready ;)

Heh heh, I think I may have found my future new favourite way to piss off my neighbours :D

SPEED is the biggest issue. No switch there, no discussion here and I think CBS would never catch up with a HD signal for four races.

Bernie will wait with F1 in HD till HD becomes really popular in Europe. That will be next year I guess. In Europe it`s possible to see races in HD for tests maybe one of the last races, but which channel should show it in the US then?

SPEED is the biggest issue.


DougMan

Back in 2001-2002, Sky in the UK had the F1 Digital Plus PPV package for all F1 races. It was commercial free, 16x9 SD, multiple channels showing multiple views of the practice, qualifying, and the race plus real time telemetry data. This was a great package, but a bit ahead of its time. Plus it was something like $12 a race and no season package option. I think it was a great product for die hard F1 fans and I hope that someday, this will be an option in the States, even if it was on the Internet.

I would pay $12 a race for that, but I am a bit sick in the head about F1. :D

EJ

When F1 starts getting broadcast in Europe in Hi-def then maybe there's a chance it'll get her, but from what I can tell hd is only starting to take off in Europe and this years world cup is the big jumpstart.
Agreed. Last time I researched this, maybe 8 mo ago, the delay in getting stuff like F1 in HD was all about the larger problem of EU being far behind the US in HD. It's nothing to do with F1 itself. No US broadcaster covers those races, they are covered by locals and the feed is picked up here. So, when the locals get HD, we might. But, as I said, last impression I had was that the EU is far behind us, which given how weak and spotty our HD remains, means it'll be a while before F1 arrives in HD. Think about it - if key markets like Germany and Britain have darn close to zero penetration of HDTVs in the home at this point, it won't be coming tomorrow.

Agreed. Last time I researched this, maybe 8 mo ago, the delay in getting stuff like F1 in HD was all about the larger problem of EU being far behind the US in HD. It's nothing to do with F1 itself. No US broadcaster covers those races, they are covered by locals and the feed is picked up here. So, when the locals get HD, we might. But, as I said, last impression I had was that the EU is far behind us, which given how weak and spotty our HD remains, means it'll be a while before F1 arrives in HD. Think about it - if key markets like Germany and Britain have darn close to zero penetration of HDTVs in the home at this point, it won't be coming tomorrow.


not really. If you follow the european news you can see that mostly every Pay TV Provider in Europe catch up with HD and many european countries have FTA HD Channels. At least they all DVB-S2 and MPEG-4 standard. I think Europe is faster than the US with building HD Channels, also sub-channels in HD. That could be cause the US was one of the countries with a Leadership position in HD, but you can`t say they are behind when they just started one year ago.

The LC Displays in Europe going to be cheaper and cheaper. Price drops almost to US Prices.


DougMan

Even if SPEED started broadcasting in HD tomorrow in time for the 1st practice session, Comcast probably wouldn't add the HD channel to the lineup until 2012 or so.

CBS is getting 4 races, including Monte Carlo
http://www.sportsline.com/autoracing/schedules/OPEN_F
Doubtful it'll be HD, but there's hope for some F1 HD next year.

CBS is getting 4 races, including Monte Carlo
http://www.sportsline.com/autoracing/schedules/OPEN_F
Doubtful it'll be HD, but there's hope for some F1 HD next year.

Again with this cr@p. Incredible. The FIA as a whole has NO idea about TV coverage in the USA.

More of CBS teaching remedial auto racing 101- like their lame coverage will attract casual surfers looking for something to watch. Let's see here....Imola, Spain, Monaco, and Silverstone. Outside of Imola and Silverstone, most F1 fans are hard-pressed to even care about these races. Monaco? Yawn. Chess at 80MPH. Say what you want about the History, the splendor, the 98% undressed love-goddesses stretched across the prow of a boat worth more than the public school you attended...It's a crime to put those cars in that silly circuit. Spain? Enough already. Do we have to watch a race that all the teams test on? Even qualifying is boring.

WRC? SpeedTV killed it and the FIA was OK with it. I honestly believe that WRC, out of all forms of racing, is the one that can sell itself. 11PM on Sundays and the ratings are poor? What a shock that is.

On a different note- HiDef WRC isn't going to be a trivial thing to do. The way they get the shows turned so quickly, including the in-car, is to have 'runners' on dirtbikes drive around the stages, pick up the videotapes, and bring them back to the TV camp. The HD cameras need to be cheap, light, and record on media that's rugged enough to tolerate getting the snot beaten out of it. Not quite sure we're there yet.

Actually, Monaco is one of my favorite races of the year.

Spain? Enough already. Do we have to watch a race that all the teams test on? Even qualifying is boring.>>>

Agreed! Only way to make this and the Hungaian GP exciting is by turning on the water sprinklers during the race!

Here's wishing good luck to fellow American Scott Speed on his first F1 season, he will be racing for Scuderia Toro Rosso, he will need it.

Heh heh, I think I may have found my future new favourite way to piss off my neighbours >>>
And prove that the Team USA in baseball is a paper tiger (;

For TV viewers, I think a lot of whether the new quali is good or not will depend on how it's covered. But I imagine it'll be changed several times before I arrive at the USGP this summer to see it live.

I don't think you will see any changes. Usually, once the sporting rules/regulations are set for the season, that's it.

Again with this cr@p. Incredible. The FIA as a whole has NO idea about TV coverage in the USA.

More of CBS teaching remedial auto racing 101- like their lame coverage will attract casual surfers looking for something to watch. Let's see here....Imola, Spain, Monaco, and Silverstone. Outside of Imola and Silverstone, most F1 fans are hard-pressed to even care about these races.

Not sure what you meant by most of this post cause I am an F1 fan and I love Monaco and Spain, losts of tight turns but that is what I like about it, the drivers really have to pick their spots.

Anyhow I do agree about CBS carrying the races, they make it a horrible expirience. I hate their coverage, especaially when they cut the race short for a fing golf tourney and cut to commercials right in the middle of a battle on the track. You don't sound like much a fan anyhow, I love qualifiying and this year should be interesting with the new rules.

EJ

Hmm, I had forgotten about CBS' coverage - it was lacking, wasn't it? The speed guys are great, and the one (English dude) is hillarious. He inserts lots of "Wahhhhhs!" at a pass or crash.

Monaco is pretty tight, though - not many passes, except in the tunnel under a yellow.

I don't think you will see any changes. Usually, once the sporting rules/regulations are set for the season, that's it.
Really? You haven't been following F1 the last few years, have you? Because quali just about always changes during the season, usually several times. It did last year mid-season, and in previous seasons so often sometimes it seemed every race had a new format. I'll bet we'll see a change to this years quali format before the F1 circus lands in Europe. Bring on the silly season!

Hmm, I had forgotten about CBS' coverage - it was lacking, wasn't it? The speed guys are great, and the one (English dude) is hillarious. He inserts lots of "Wahhhhhs!" at a pass or crash.

Monaco is pretty tight, though - not many passes, except in the tunnel under a yellow.

Yeh I forget his name but he is always like "ohh and he get's err sideways". He gets all excited , like me :D .

EJ

I guess it's THIS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_Walker) guy. Reminds me of a Monty Python father during their hayday.

Where do you guys like to sit at the races? I really enjoy the seats overlooking pit lane... You get to see the practice lap, all of the mechanics running around, launch, pits, and the finish. I guess some of the turns would be great, I've just never sat there.

Yeh I forget his name but he is always like "ohh and he get's err sideways". He gets all excited , like me :D .

EJ

If you're talking about the red-headed Irish/Scot (?) guy, that's Derek Daily, and I absolutely cringe every time he opens his mouth. For someone who is supposed to be well versed in motorsports, he has got to be the most complete idiot that has ever uttered a word when it comes to F1. He gets facts, races, people mixed up all the time. Unfortunately we have to deal with him for Champ Car races to, although I hope he disppears now that Speed will be carrying the races. Somebody shoot him and put us out of our misery, please.

The rest of the CBS F1 commentators aren't much better. They talk to the audience like no one has ever seen an auto race before. Give me Hobbs, Varsha, and Matchett anytime.


I hate the CBW F1 broadcasts. They're about as bad as the ABC failure of an F1 broadcast several years ago.

No it's not Derek Daily. I can't say for sure who's on CBS but the guy I talking about used to be on speed about five years ago then he was gone and now I think he is back. As far is who cmmentates on CBS I cant truly say cause they are horrible. THe guys that commentate on speed totally rock. Hobbs and Varsha :D I know that cause I hear it every other Sunday.

EJ

No it's not Derek Daily. I can't say for sure who's on CBS but the guy I talking about used to be on speed about five years ago then he was gone and now I think he is back. As far is who cmmentates on CBS I cant truly say cause they are horrible. THe guys that commentate on speed totally rock. Hobbs and Varsha :D I know that cause I hear it every other Sunday.

EJ
I like crusty ol' Hobbs and his "slag." I enjoyed watching his Legends of Motorsport series, including the one of him in 1962 driving for Triumph at the 24 Hrs LeMans.

Really? You haven't been following F1 the last few years, have you? Because quali just about always changes during the season, usually several times. It did last year mid-season, and in previous seasons so often sometimes it seemed every race had a new format. I'll bet we'll see a change to this years quali format before the F1 circus lands in Europe. Bring on the silly season!

Look, I know I'm getting senile, just turned 70 and been following F1 since the late fifties. Also, I've been watching F1 with only one eye and listening with only one ear since Ronnie Peterson's death. But. I can't ever remember the change of regulations in the middle of ANY season. As you know, it's all governed by the Concord Agreement and it has to be published two and three years in advance. For instance:

"A package of measures were approved for the 2008 Championship. These include the introduction of a Centreline Downwash Generating wing, larger wheels with slick tyres and a single tyre supplier. The package will be brought forward to 2007 if an 80% majority of the Formula One Technical Working Group agree to do so before the end of December 2005."

I'm not saying you are wrong, I just don't remember any changes to qualifing in the middle of the season. I have never seen any capritious reg changes in the middle of a F1 season in recent history.

Best,
Hugh

That would be Jaguar. :eek:

Nahh, I think he remembers Ralf Schumaker and his many shunts, some of them quite spectacular!

David Hobbs - A lot of people have forgotten that he was a F1 pilot in the early 70's. Same with Derek D., he also drove in our Indy series before the split.

At least I give them the respect they are due even if I could not stand any of them. Just my way of saying..."yes, they know a hell of a lot more about car racing than I will EVER know."

Look, I know I'm getting senile, just turned 70 and been following F1 since the late fifties. Also, I've been watching F1 with only one eye and listening with only one ear since Ronnie Peterson's death. But. I can't ever remember the change of regulations in the middle of ANY season. As you know, it's all governed by the Concord Agreement and it has to be published two and three years in advance. For instance:

"A package of measures were approved for the 2008 Championship. These include the introduction of a Centreline Downwash Generating wing, larger wheels with slick tyres and a single tyre supplier. The package will be brought forward to 2007 if an 80% majority of the Formula One Technical Working Group agree to do so before the end of December 2005."

I'm not saying you are wrong, I just don't remember any changes to qualifing in the middle of the season. I have never seen any capritious reg changes in the middle of a F1 season in recent history.

Best,
Hugh
Last year qualifying started by adding up the times for two qualifying sessions and using the aggregate time to determine the grid. The first session was on Saturday and the second on Sunday morning. After about 5 races they eliminated that format and went to the one where the first session determined only the running order for the second, and only the second flying lap session determined the grid.

Say all you want about the Concorde agreement. It doesn't cover everything, and the FIA can make ajustments for safety reasons, and for other reasons if there is a majority approval by the teams and FOM (i.e. Bernie). It comes down to money so if the fans don't like something, and viewership, sponsership, or safety is in danger the rules get changed.

For the most part the rules stand pat for the season. But qualifying format has changed mid-season frequently in the past few years, all for commercials reasons (keep fans watching and sponsers happy). If you really haven't noticed, you haven't been paying attention. Dave Despain has taken great pleasure in joking about it when it happens.

No it's not Derek Daily. I can't say for sure who's on CBS but the guy I talking about used to be on speed about five years ago then he was gone and now I think he is back.
EJ

I'm pretty sure that you are talking about Ralph "Shouting" Shaheen. He does a decent job at what he does. But the F1 crew (Varsha, Hobbs, and Machet) are so good that every one else stinks in comparison.

I followed F1 since the late 90s when I was in India, and IMHO, Speed channel's commentators - Steve Hatchett, Bob Varsha and David Hobbs - pale in comparison to STAR Sports commentators - Steve Slater and Chris Goodwin.

If you guys think the Speed Channel commentators rock, you should really listen to the STAR Sports commentators. The guys on Speed (except for Peter Windsor, but he works on multiple networks) bore me to death, coming from the spectacular duo on STAR Sports.

I can't speak to the Star commentators since I'll never hear them. But I like the Speed commentators vs all of the other (nascar, irl, etc..) series that are out there. These guys talk from experience and do very little hype.

Sort of like the difference between a journalist vs a info-tainment talking head.

I can't speak to the Star commentators since I'll never hear them. But I like the Speed commentators vs all of the other (nascar, irl, etc..) series that are out there. These guys talk from experience and do very little hype.

Sort of like the difference between a journalist vs a info-tainment talking head.
And they have good chemistry. I like them too. They make it fun and informative, without treating viewers like complete morons. That's my problem with Derek Daily: he treats viewers like idiots, and then he can't even get his facts straight. :rolleyes:

And they have good chemistry. I like them too. They make it fun and informative, without treating viewers like complete morons. That's my problem with Derek Daily: he treats viewers like idiots, and then he can't even get his facts straight. :rolleyes:

I agree. I think the quality of SPEED's F1 team is the reason I enjoy watching F1 so much. I can't watch CBS's coverage.

I agree...Speed commentary destroys CBS....I can't stand watching the CBS coverage

I agree. I think the quality of SPEED's F1 team is the reason I enjoy watching F1 so much. I can't watch CBS's coverage.

Yep, they help make quali more interesting because of there knowledge of the sport. They also remember every race for the last 30+ years as well as every rule change since then who won what circuit, what corner they got passed on, where every bump on the courses are, etc, etc. It's just top notch all the way around. The only way it could be improved was by them being able to have control of the feed, which they work around quite nicely.

EJ

Not sure what you meant by most of this post cause I am an F1 fan and I love Monaco and Spain, losts of tight turns but that is what I like about it, the drivers really have to pick their spots.

Anyhow I do agree about CBS carrying the races, they make it a horrible expirience. I hate their coverage, especaially when they cut the race short for a fing golf tourney and cut to commercials right in the middle of a battle on the track. You don't sound like much a fan anyhow, I love qualifiying and this year should be interesting with the new rules.

EJ

Monaco, I used to consider fascinating...back when I started watching F1 in '93. What's changed? Well- you're basically watching a race of attrition, either mechanical or errors...the least mistakes wins the race. The TV coverage typically skips the interesting stuff- always showing the leader, yawn- and never has enough in-car. I can't recall- mind you, this is missing NONE of the Monco races since '93- more than 2-3 decent passes.

Outside of the interesting scenery, it's indentical to Hungary. Dull dull dull.

Spain? Well. The track, suspension, aero, and engine mapping was all done before the teams show up for the race. This track has gotta be like a ghost town on Friday practice. It's a great track, don't get me wrong, but since every cm of track has been mapped and remapped, you could probably simulate it and get indentical results. Drivers have very little to do w/this track.

I agree...Speed commentary destroys CBS....I can't stand watching the CBS coverage

Maybe by next year at the least, CBS can loan some HD cameras to Speed to cover the US and Canadian Grands Prix..

Maybe by next year at the least, CBS can loan some HD cameras to Speed to cover the US and Canadian Grands Prix..

you mean the Las Vegas GP (*CROSSES FINGERS*)

Indy has to be the worst track in the entire season...

you mean the Las Vegas GP (*CROSSES FINGERS*)

Indy has to be the worst track in the entire season...
I like Indy, but then I'm there for that one. Penthouse seats right across from pit row. :D
My vote is against it going to Vegas, unless they add that as second US race (not likely).

I noticed during this mornings practice that someone was filming in the garage with either an HD camera or a widescreen camera. Another camera man was standing right behind him that got the shot that went onto TV. Maybe someone else got a better look at that camera.

you mean the Las Vegas GP (*CROSSES FINGERS*)

Indy has to be the worst track in the entire season...

Funny, my 1995 Canadian GP program has an ad for the US GP at Vegas.

Given my 'ideal' choice, it'd be the original circuit at Watkins Glen- the one that went through town. No chance for that these days though.

Yep, they help make quali more interesting because of there knowledge of the sport. EJ

Steve Matchett alone is worth the price of admission. He picks up things that I couldn't see with a 100" TV....

Well I for thought the new quali was pretty cool.

EJ

Let's please use spoiler tags until everyone has a chance to watch. Or start a new thread tagged "spoliers."

14-year-old son of former F-1 driver Derek Daly signs deal for go-kart ride.[U]


By Betsy Reason
Betsy.Reason@TheNoblesvilleLedger.com
March 10, 2006





Maybe it's the luck of the Irish. Or maybe it's that he's Derek Daly's son.

Seems Conor Daly has what it takes to be a race-car driver.


The 14-year-old Noblesville go-kart racer and son of the Ireland-born former Formula One and Indy car driver has been winning races. A lot of races.

He signed an open-ended deal Tuesday with Motorama Kart Parts Birel Team, which has had its eye on Conor for the past year.

"This will be Conor's biggest break in karting and the most significant company he has been involved with," Derek Daly said.

Conor's first sponsored race will be World Karting Association's national event this weekend at Lowes Motor Speedway in Charlotte, N.C. Then he's off to an even bigger race next weekend, the Stars of Karting, Race of Americas, at the Oklahoma Motorsports Complex.

"He's good now, and he's only going to get better," said former Indy Car driver Mark Dismore, owner of the 2-year-old New Castle (Ind.) Motorsports Park, where he's watched Conor compete on the one-mile road course.

As a youngster, Conor admired his dad's trophies, old photos and newspaper clippings and eagerly listened to favorite racing stories.

When he was 10 he strapped himself into a go-kart, admitting a nervousness in the pit of his stomach. But that was only until he made the first couple of laps. Racing just came natural for the eighth-grader at Heritage Christian School. He claimed 19 races and two championships last year and earned Kart Racers of America's Junior Driver of the Year.

Conor said he's learned a lot from his dad, who taught him how to determine which lines to follow on a track to be faster, how to handle corners and how to make adjustments to the kart, which weighs 305 pounds with him in it.

And undoubtedly, being the legacy of a professional race car driver has given him connections that have opened doors.

Dad, a mentor and a coach, provides his son with opportunities and guidance, but says when it comes down to it, Conor will be measured on his talents, just like every other driver.

Still, a smiling Conor said, there's "a lot to live up to."

Well I for thought the new quali was pretty cool.

EJ
I thought qualifying worked out really well, and the race was a very good done. I hope we see a lot of good action this year.

I thought qualifying worked out really well, and the race was a very good done. I hope we see a lot of good action this year.


I am a staunch Ferrari fan, but it appeared Renault had answers to every Ferrari challenge in this race. The driver, the pit crew and the tac-team were all in fluent form, and it seems that McLaren's achilles heel remains to be its reliability. It is almost scary to think how Kimi could dominate if he were in a more reliable car !!

Salute the new flying Finn !! :D I can't wait to see him paired with Michael next year (though, I think Schumi will call it quits if Kimi signs up.. :( )

I am a staunch Ferrari fan, but it appeared Renault had answers to every Ferrari challenge in this race. The driver, the pit crew and the tac-team were all in fluent form, and it seems that McLaren's achilles heel remains to be its reliability. It is almost scary to think how Kimi could dominate if he were in a more reliable car !!

Salute the new flying Finn !! :D I can't wait to see him paired with Michael next year (though, I think Schumi will call it quits if Kimi signs up.. :( )
I think a more awesome matchup would be Kimi and Fernando at McLaren, if the team can solve reliability problems. But I doubt we'll see the two as teammates.

I think a more awesome matchup would be Kimi and Fernando at McLaren, if the team can solve reliability problems. But I doubt we'll see the two as teammates.

Unconfirmed reports from Germany's Bild magazine show Kimi leaving McLaren next year, posibly going to Ferarri:



According to reports in the German press, Ferrari's Michael Schumacher may have now signed a new two-year deal to stick around in F1 until the end of 2008.

After missing the Bahrain win by a paltry 1.2 seconds, the 37-year-old is almost certain to line up at the scarlet team next year alongside McLaren defector Kimi Raikkonen, the reports said.

Schumacher's manager, Willi Weber, would not confirm the rumour when pressed by Bild newspaper.

"We will not be making any statements on this issue before the summer," he said.
"But it is clear -- positive results will not impact negatively on Michael's important decision."

Bild also quoted a 'McLaren insider' as reporting that Kimi Raikkonen has already decided to leave the team.

Unconfirmed reports from Germany's Bild magazine show Kimi leaving McLaren next year, posibly going to Ferarri:
That's nothing new -- same old rumours regurgitated once again. Each Euro mag takes it turn every week. :rolleyes:

So while they may be true, I've been reading the same in Autosport Magazine for months now. I have a feeling Kimi is waiting to see what Schumi does because I doubt either will want to share the glory at Ferrari.

It would be nice for F1 fans if they both went to Ferrari. I'm ready for a mano a mano duel ala Senna/Porst! I can only dream!

It would be nice for F1 fans if they both went to Ferrari. I'm ready for a mano a mano duel ala Senna/Porst! I can only dream!
I don't know. I think maybe battles between teams may be better than battles within teams. And Ferrarri race seats really are not an equal partnership these days -- whoever has second seat while Schumi and Todt are at Ferrari will play second fiddle. It's exactly why Rubens was unhappy.

Besides, I'm a BMW fan and don't want to see Ferrari (or any team) totally dominate anymore. F1 started getting very boring there for a while with Ferrari as a dynasty. Hopefully that's over now.

I don't know. I think maybe battles between teams may be better than battles within teams. And Ferrarri race seats really are not an equal partnership these days -- whoever has second seat while Schumi and Todt are at Ferrari will play second fiddle. It's exactly why Rubens was unhappy.

Besides, I'm a BMW fan and don't want to see Ferrari (or any team) totally dominate anymore. F1 started getting very boring there for a while with Ferrari as a dynasty. Hopefully that's over now.

Yes, even when Eddie Irvine was Schumi's partner, it was clear who was 'da man' at Ferrari. I doubt if Kimi or Schumi would be wanting serious competition inside their own stables. BMW Sauber is one potential suitor for Kimi if they manage to show some serious potential this year. Villeneuve is a bit long in the tooth as it is, and Heidfeld is not exactly the poster boy material. If not Ferrari, BMW might approach Kimi.

Or, will Alonso and Kimi just swap teams ?? It will be very interesting to watch this drama unfold.

Yes, even when Eddie Irvine was Schumi's partner, it was clear who was 'da man' at Ferrari. I doubt if Kimi or Schumi would be wanting serious competition inside their own stables. BMW Sauber is one potential suitor for Kimi if they manage to show some serious potential this year. Villeneuve is a bit long in the tooth as it is, and Heidfeld is not exactly the poster boy material. If not Ferrari, BMW might approach Kimi.

Or, will Alonso and Kimi just swap teams ?? It will be very interesting to watch this drama unfold.
It's also possible you could see Kimi going to Red Bull if they show improvement -- likely now that Adrian Newey is there. Mateschitz has deep pockets for hiring talent. BMW Sauber F1 does not have unconstrained funding & may not be able to afford someone like Kimi until they can demonstrate to the board of directors the venture is worthwhile -- this will be a a race on Sunday, sell on Monday team.

BTW: slightly off topic, but news today is that the Japanese GP will be at the Toyota's Fuji track starting in 2007. Multi-year contract has been signed. I will really miss Suzuka. Alonso's pass on Schumi around the 130R was one of last season's highlights for me.

So is Schmui supposed to quit after this Season? quit....er......retire :)

So is Schmui supposed to quit after this Season? quit....er......retire :)
His original contract expires at the end of 2006. Schumi has said on more than a couple of occassions that he'd like to retire at the top, and not drag his career or Ferrari if he wasn't competitive. If he wins the championship this season, he MIGHT stay on for another year or two, or just might hang up his boots with the sign..

"TOP THAT !! 8th crown !!"

;)

So is Schmui supposed to quit after this Season? quit....er......retire :)
He has stated in a press conference earlier this year that he will decide/reveal this summer what his future plans are. If he stays I do not think he will go to another team, unless he takes in interest in building one up (like BMW). I imagine Kimi will want to know Schumi's plans before he moves on any offers.

So thought I'd try to wake up this dead horse...

Anyone know definitively (post a link, etc.) if CBS will air any of their four F1 races in HD? Charter cable has dropped the BravesHD channel (announcement coming soon) so I am down to TBS and ESPN for HD baseball coverage and I'm not much of a basketball or hockey fan.

Guess I'll find out one way or another this Sunday watching CBS's lame delayed coverage!

So thought I'd try to wake up this dead horse...

Anyone know definitively (post a link, etc.) if CBS will air any of their four F1 races in HD? Charter cable has dropped the BravesHD channel (announcement coming soon) so I am down to TBS and ESPN for HD baseball coverage and I'm not much of a basketball or hockey fan.

Guess I'll find out one way or another this Sunday watching CBS's lame delayed coverage!
CBS doesn't produce the video coverage. They just get the feed from whoever has has the video rights, and it is all standard def. I expect it will be a while before we see F1 in high def. My guess is not before 2008, when the new Concorde agreement takes effect.

CBS doesn't produce the video coverage. They just get the feed from whoever has has the video rights, and it is all standard def. I expect it will be a while before we see F1 in high def. My guess is not before 2008, when the new Concorde agreement takes effect.
From the F1 forums, it has been discussed that the host nation produces the world feed for each race. This, of course, leads to complaints of French directors only following the Renaults or English directors focusing on McClaren or Williams.

CBS doesn't produce the video coverage. They just get the feed from whoever has has the video rights, and it is all standard def. I expect it will be a while before we see F1 in high def. My guess is not before 2008, when the new Concorde agreement takes effect.

So in theory...the US Grand Prix at Indy could be in HD if they were to make that decision :confused:

So in theory...the US Grand Prix at Indy could be in HD if they were to make that decision :confused:
No. CBS isn't doing the USGP (thank God). Speed is doing the USGP and they don't produce anything in HD.

The CBS butchering of Formula 1 for 2006 includes:
4/23 1:00 p.m.-3:00 p.m. Formula 1: San Marino Grand Prix (SD) - Imola, Italy
5/14 1:00 p.m. - 3:00 p.m. Formula 1: Spanish Grand Prix - Barcelona, Spain
5/28 12:30 p.m. - 2:30 p.m. Formula 1: Monaco Grand Prix - Monaco
6/11 1:30 p.m. - 3:30 p.m. Formula 1: British Grand Prix - Silverstone, Great Britain

Personally, I would rather watch F1 on Speed in SD than on CBS in HD.

Personally, I would rather watch F1 on Speed in SD than on CBS in HD.

Agreed. I'd rather watch F1 on Speed in SD with 1 week tape delay than watch it on CBS in HD.

Though I would like to see it in HD. Maybe on CBS in HD with MUTE on?

Agreed. I'd rather watch F1 on Speed in SD with 1 week tape delay than watch it on CBS in HD.

Though I would like to see it in HD. Maybe on CBS in HD with MUTE on?
Maybe on CBS in HD with a muzzle on Derek Daly.

these are going to be the 4 longest races....Hopefully CBS announcers got educated on F1 since last year...it was absolutely atrocious last year

The SpeedTV announcers (Bob Varsha, Steve Matchett, David Hobbs) are the best, most interesting commentators in all of racing, IMO.

The SpeedTV announcers (Bob Varsha, Steve Matchett, David Hobbs) are one of the best, most interesting commentators in all of racing, IMO.

Fixed for accuracy and context.

Fixed for accuracy and context.

I disagree with this - I agree with the previous poster IMO they are THE best commentary team anywhere on TV for auto racing.

Thats including the legendary Murray Walker - who was enthusiastic but missed the most obvious events while wittering on...

Why is this an HDTV thread?

I disagree with this - I agree with the previous poster IMO they are THE best commentary team anywhere on TV for auto racing.

Thats including the legendary Murray Walker - who was enthusiastic but missed the most obvious events while wittering on...

Perhaps you need to qualify that as the "best commentary team on American TV"

Having had the pleasure of listening to more commentary teams than just on CBS and Speed, I beg to differ. Anyway, there is at least one another commentary team I would rate at par if not above Speed's team.

According to Pitpass sourses FOM (Formula One Management) is apparently ready to debut its new Hi Definition equipment for the two North American rounds.....

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=27731


I CAN'T WAIT

According to Pitpass sourses FOM (Formula One Management) is apparently ready to debut its new Hi Definition equipment for the two North American rounds.....

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=27731


I CAN'T WAIT

Great - lets hope they provide 16:9 SD feeds as well. It has been very obvious in the UK that the only major UK sporting event still in 4:3 is the British Grand Prix.

Cant wait, now this is what Hidef was made for :)

Maybe on CBS in HD with a muzzle on Derek Daly.

Hey! Put it in turd gear for teers of joi with your mudder! :D

I found just the right description of Derek Daly calling a F1 race...

Well, well, well - loooooooooooook, look at that! It's a tire! For those of you who are new to Formula 1, there are four of them on a car!

This is interesting...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=668738&referrerid=69956

This is interesting...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=668738&referrerid=69956
Yes, but it says it's for the North American races (CAGP and USGP) and these are carried by Speed Channel. I seriously doubt we will see any F1 in HD this year.

The question is, who's going to carry it? Speedtv had the USGP and Canadian GP in the US, and there is no SPEEDHD. Will Bernie and the gang force HD on SPEED or lose f1 totally, -OR- maybe have the USGP and Canadian GP on CBS where we can get it OTA. Which would be great for those of us who have D* , we won't get it in HD Lite, my CBS OTA is SWEET in New Orleans. :D

Agreed. But there is hope for the future.

Agreed. But there is hope for the future.
I'm always hoping. As far as I'm concerned, motorsports (and I don't mean driving in circles) is the killer app for HD. I would give up everything else in HD to get F1, ALMS, LMES, WRC, Rolex, ChampCar, DTM, etc in high definition.

Isn't the US Grand Prix on one of the networks instead of SPEED? I seem to remember that last year's debacle wasn't on SPEED...

And agreed -- can't wait for the sound at the start in 5.1!

Isn't the US Grand Prix on one of the networks instead of SPEED? I seem to remember that last year's debacle wasn't on SPEED...

And agreed -- can't wait for the sound at the start in 5.1!

Good luck getting the Canadian GP in HD. I'd lay money that TSN/RDS is the only HD carrier for this.

While I really hope we can watch them in HD this year, I doubt it will happen. However, I now think that next year we'll most definitely see HD at its best with Formula 1.

TSNHD carries all of the F1 races so hopefully they will show the Canadian and US GP in HD. Hopefully this means the remaining races after the NA GPs will be in HD as well.

Great news, but I'm not getting my hopes up that anyone will carry the HD coverage in the U.S.

This would be perfect for HDNet. Dump the NASCAR minor leagues and step up to the majors HDNet!

Isn't the US Grand Prix on one of the networks instead of SPEED? I seem to remember that last year's debacle wasn't on SPEED...

And agreed -- can't wait for the sound at the start in 5.1!

CBS has done it in the past, not sure what's up for this year.

AFAIK, this year CBS is carrying:
San Marino Grand Prix
Spanish Grand Prix
Monaco Grand Prix
British Grand Prix

US Grand Prix is still Speed's:
http://cbs.sportsline.com/autoracing/schedules/OPEN_F

The question is, who's going to carry it?Unless the new Fox-HD channel gets up and running ... I wouldn't hold my breath for anyone in the US. But if it does ... that's the only place I could see it happening (any time soon) ...FOX PLANS A PAIR OF NEW HD NETS

Fox Networks Group plans to launch two high-definition networks early next year — an HDTV version of National Geographic Channel and Fox HD, which will draw from sporting events and popular TV series from broadcast network Fox, cable sister FX and other networks.
(...)
Fox HD may also simulcast NASCAR races on FX, and run programming from Speed Channel, Fuel TV and other Fox-owned networks.

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA632912.htmlNote: This would make the new Fox-HD channel a "must have" for me ...

AFAIK, this year CBS is carrying:
San Marino Grand Prix
Spanish Grand Prix
Monaco Grand Prix
British Grand Prix

US Grand Prix is still Speed's:
http://cbs.sportsline.com/autoracing/schedules/OPEN_F

Thats right, my mistake, not sure why I thought CBS did all the Indy F1 races the past few years.

It will be interesting if CBS offers these races live, but I doubt it considering they didn't last year with those 4 races.

Wow, finally! Hasn't Nascar been doing HD for years now?:) Hell, next thing you know they will have passing in F1.:)

Ericglo

Wow, finally! Hasn't Nascar been doing HD for years now?:) Hell, next thing you know they will have passing in F1.:)

Ericglo

There is plenty of passing in F1 as is, but not as often as you'd like between the top contenders.

It will be interesting if CBS offers these races liveNope:

Grand Prix / Live Time (Eastern) / CBS Air Time (Eastern)

San Marino Grand Prix / 8:00 a.m. / CBS (1:00 p.m.)
Spanish Grand Prix / 8:00 a.m. / CBS (1:00 p.m.)
Monaco Grand Prix / 8:00 a.m. / CBS (12:30 p.m.)
British Grand Prix / 7:00 a.m. / CBS (1:30 p.m.)

http://cbs.sportsline.com/autoracing/schedules/OPEN_F

There is plenty of passing in F1 as is, but not as often as you'd like between the top contenders.
That depends on the circuit. Alot of circuits the only passing happens on pit stops.

That depends on the circuit. Alot of circuits the only passing happens on pit stops.

But there IS enough passing between cars in the middle of the pack on almost all the tracks (except for San Marino, maybe), rather than between the top 1-2-3.

Good news for sure. But the wait time is a killer.

But there IS enough passing between cars in the middle of the pack on almost all the tracks (except for San Marino, maybe), rather than between the top 1-2-3.
I guess we will just disagree. Monaco is the worst. Unless you run into someone/something or someone hits you there are no passes.

But there IS enough passing between cars in the middle of the pack on almost all the tracks (except for San Marino, maybe), rather than between the top 1-2-3.

Yeah, but who cares. Obviously, the broadcast station doesn't or it would be aired.

Ericglo

most of that passing is by drivers who should have been further up in the field anyway. like riakkinans engne and mechinical failures putting him in back etc...

heck yes, F1 in HD yee haa. now just get cbs to show it or we need Speed HD too :).

off topic but the schedule showed the Belgian GP in Sept. was cancelled?

It sucks, Spa is my favorite circuit. Here is the info
http://www.formula1.com/news/3984.html

But there IS enough passing between cars in the middle of the pack on almost all the tracks (except for San Marino, maybe), rather than between the top 1-2-3.

Now if only they'd actually show that in the coverage; it does get old watching the leader, who is 10+ seconds ahead, do laps.

Now, F1 in HD...*drools* Too bad we'll have to put up with CBS commentators to view the HD :(

But there IS enough passing between cars in the middle of the pack on almost all the tracks (except for San Marino, maybe), rather than between the top 1-2-3.

Now if only they'd actually show that in the coverage; it does get old watching the leader, who is 10+ seconds ahead, do laps.

Now, F1 in HD...*drools* Too bad we'll have to put up with CBS commentators to view the HD :(

F1 in HD is a good thing. It will push SPEED to go HD sooner rather than later, possibly within a year or else other networks will get the rights to broadcast F1: ESPN.

sweet news... kinda ironic that while technology plays such a big part in F1, yet they're still broadcasting in SD...

sweet news... kinda ironic that while technology plays such a big part in F1, yet they're still broadcasting in SD...

You have to consider the fact that most of the viewerbase of F1 are in countries outside of US, where HD hasn't taken off till now. Who would F1 be transmitting in HD for, when the potential revenue from that investment would be mediocre? Being in the US makes us see the issue differently, having had HD for so long compared to other countries.

You have to consider the fact that most of the viewerbase of F1 are in countries outside of US, where HD hasn't taken off till now. Who would F1 be transmitting in HD for, when the potential revenue from that investment would be mediocre? Being in the US makes us see the issue differently, having had HD for so long compared to other countries.

well you do make a good point... but incidentally, we also don't have HD yet (Hong Kong)... but from my perspective, it seems like most of the bigger countries already have HD... not to get too off topic, but what is the HD situation like in Europe, where F1 is hugely popular?

Europe is just begining to get HDTV. I think that they have DiscoveryHD and National Geographic Channel HD, and then some homegrown channels as well. Not a lot, but it is in motion.

I don't think that F1 is going to push SpeedTV at all towards HD. Heck if Nascar doesn't make them move, then F1 certainly won't.

a bit of a technical question I guess, but with some of the in-car cameras being standard-def (I assume), how will it come out on an HD broadcast? how do they do it for Nascar?

You have to consider the fact that most of the viewerbase of F1 are in countries outside of US, where HD hasn't taken off till now. Who would F1 be transmitting in HD for, when the potential revenue from that investment would be mediocre? Being in the US makes us see the issue differently, having had HD for so long compared to other countries.

Germany now has an HD service (Premiere - who I think may have F1 rights - ISTR they did), the UK has an HD service about to launch (next month) though ITV have the F1 rights here and they have made no real HD commitments yet. France is also expected to launch an HD service in the next 12 months or so.

Australia and Japan both already have HD services (Japan for longer than the US, Aus for around the same time albeit with less HD origination) - though some of the Aussie "HD" would be called "ED" in the US, and "SD" in the UK.

(There is a mix of 16:9 1080/50i and 16:9 576/50p in Aus - but most of the 576/50p is 576/50i de-interlaced or 576/25p frame repeated...)

I suspect the F1 production gear is getting slightly tired - and they had to take a decision whether to make the next 5-8 years in 4:3 SD, 16:9 SD or 16:9 HD.

I know the UK audience are amazed that F1 is still 4:3 - and the most prominent, popular, sport coverage still in 4:3. (People do hate those black bars left and right!)

a bit of a technical question I guess, but with some of the in-car cameras being standard-def (I assume), how will it come out on an HD broadcast? how do they do it for Nascar?

4:3 with pillarbars.

Germany now has an HD service (Premiere - who I think may have F1 rights - ISTR they did), the UK has an HD service about to launch (next month) though ITV have the F1 rights here and they have made no real HD commitments yet. France is also expected to launch an HD service in the next 12 months or so.

Australia and Japan both already have HD services (Japan for longer than the US, Aus for around the same time albeit with less HD origination) - though some of the Aussie "HD" would be called "ED" in the US, and "SD" in the UK.

(There is a mix of 16:9 1080/50i and 16:9 576/50p in Aus - but most of the 576/50p is 576/50i de-interlaced or 576/25p frame repeated...)

I suspect the F1 production gear is getting slightly tired - and they had to take a decision whether to make the next 5-8 years in 4:3 SD, 16:9 SD or 16:9 HD.

I know the UK audience are amazed that F1 is still 4:3 - and the most prominent, popular, sport coverage still in 4:3. (People do hate those black bars left and right!)


Japan had HD little before US but it was analog. They did not launch true digital HD until 1999 after US and Aus did not launch HD until late 2000. Besides in Aus it is only OTA on 2 channels only and no HD on satellite and most programming is from US. They only have 1 OB HD truck there.

4:3 with pillarbars.

I'd be surprised if they used 4:3 SD minicams - there are quite a few 16:9 SD minicams these days (they're used quite a lot over here). The really tiny lipstick and smaller cameras are often 4:3, but the slightly larger models can be got in 4:3.

You'd then be able to do a straight upconvert with no requirement for pillarboxing.

Japan had HD little before US but it was analog. They did not launch true digital HD until 1999 after US and Aus did not launch HD until late 2000. Besides in Aus it is only OTA on 2 channels only and no HD on satellite and most programming is from US. They only have 1 OB HD truck there.

Didn't the Japanese HD Muse system launch in the very early 90s - albeit to almost no viewers. ISTR that NHK were at Wimbledon doing live broadcasts in around 1990-1993 (Sony HiVision cameras) - at the same time the BBC were covering it using Philips/BTS KCH1000s, and the CCD replacement, in the Eureka 1250 standard. I thought this, and The Ginger Tree (an NHK/BBC drama co pro made in 1989 in HiVision) were broadcast around that time - again to almost no viewers!

I realise Aus has very little domestic HD production - though it does show a significant number of acquisitions in HD - as you say almost entirely US (24p shown as 25p) productions. I thought there was more than one HD scanner though.

Didn't the Japanese HD Muse system launch in the very early 90s - albeit to almost no viewers. ISTR that NHK were at Wimbledon doing live broadcasts in around 1990-1993 (Sony HiVision cameras) - at the same time the BBC were covering it using Philips/BTS KCH1000s, and the CCD replacement, in the Eureka 1250 standard. I thought this, and The Ginger Tree (an NHK/BBC drama co pro made in 1989 in HiVision) were broadcast around that time - again to almost no viewers!

I realise Aus has very little domestic HD production - though it does show a significant number of acquisitions in HD - as you say almost entirely US (24p shown as 25p) productions. I thought there was more than one HD scanner though.

Yes Japan had Muse but that was analog. It does not look good compared to digital HD. As a matter of act they proposed Muse for use in US but it was excluded very quickly as US was going all digital from the beginning.

can't wait for HD F1

Yes Japan had Muse but that was analog. It does not look good compared to digital HD.


Yep - but it was HD, and it was a significant improvement over composite NTSC, which was a major breakthrough at the time, when digital compression technology wasn't nearly advanced enough to be usable even for SD. (This was before MPEG1 wasn't it?)

Having seen both Muse HD broadcasts, and HD-MAC broadcasts, which were both analogue (with digital assistance for MAC) they were both still significantly better than composite SD. (I've seen some worse digital HD through over compression than some of the HD MAC stuff if I'm honest... The best digital HD does blow them both out of the water obviously)


As a matter of act they proposed Muse for use in US but it was excluded very quickly as US was going all digital from the beginning.

Yep - Muse and HD-MAC became obsolete before they really had a chance to develop to a reasonable cost. The benefits of digital compression with regard to bandwith reduction (Muse was never practical OTA, and neither really was MAC) made them obvious dead-ends.

However the launch of Muse transmission meant that HiVision 1125/60i production gear was developed - which meant that when the US went HD there were most of the bits of broadcast production gear for 1080/60i (and some initial 1080/60i stuff was shot using 1035/60i gear wasn't it - as both are 1125/60i formats)

The US and Europe have certainly benefited from the Japanese and European analogue HD systems - the Philips LDK 6000 heritage can be traced back to the earlier Philips HD cameras developed for the Eureka 1250 trials (and the earlier KCH 1000 BTS tubed camera was used in the US HD evaluations - as it ran 1050/60i, 750/60p and 1125/60i AIUI)

I think we tend to ignore Japanese HD in production terms - mainly because we have no interest in watching much of it due to the language and culture barrier - but it is interesting that NHK News is now 80% HD (their US and European bureaux are HD) - which is ahead of any other major broadcaster in Europe or the US AIUI.

These are the guys that don't race on ovals right?

can't wait for HD F1 I never said it was not better than compasite analog video. All I said was that it does not look good compared to digital. On Voom they show Genesis concert from Wembley stadium shot in Muse. Let me tell you, todays component digital SD looks better than that Muse HD.

I do not consider Eureka as working system, not even if compared to Muse. It was designed as a test and political reasons. It was to keep Japanese and US HD technology from taking over Europe.

While I agree Japanese worked on HD from 70's you give them too much credit as far as digital HD goes. Almost all of the HD digital equipment that was developed was because US going all digital.

Muse was all analog.

I do not ignore their production, but people give them too much credit when it comes to digital HD. That is all. They were so stuck on their Muse system that it even ran for couple of years after digital HD was launched.

Btw, that is good that NHK news is 80% HD.

This would be fantastic news. F1 in HD. unfortunately, I would have no way to get the coverage right now.

Oh, I have another question. What if all channels get it in 16:9, Standard-def? On my TV, there is no way to zoom the widescreen TV shows in standard-def to fill the entire screen perfectly. Should there be? Examples: ER and Crossing Jordan in standard def. Since those are widescreen shows, why can't a HD set zoom in on them and make them fit the screen perfect?

Even if you could do widescreen F1 in SD, would be better than 4:3.

On my TV, there is no way to zoom the widescreen TV shows in standard-def to fill the entire screen perfectly. Should there be? Examples: ER and Crossing Jordan in standard def. Since those are widescreen shows, why can't a HD set zoom in on them and make them fit the screen perfect?

Even if you could do widescreen F1 in SD, would be better than 4:3.

Your HDTV should be able to zoom a letterboxed 4:3 SD source as long as it's being received as 480i and not 720p or 1080i (some lock the format button at 480p as well).

I never said it was not better than compasite analog video. All I said was that it does not look good compared to digital. On Voom they show Genesis concert from Wembley stadium shot in Muse.


Surely you mean shot in HiVision? MUSE was purely a transmission system - any recordings should have been well before this unless they were off-air (Muse WAS used for a minority Laser disc format I believe).

Depending on the age of the recording it may well have been shot on tubed cameras - however by the early 90s HiVision had CCD cameras AND digital VTRs (albeit quite unwieldy open-reel 1" in the first instance). Quality was very good at that time though - I was lucky enough to see some Sony digital HiVision recordings around that time.


Let me tell you, todays component digital SD looks better than that Muse HD.


Sure - uncompressed component digital SD from a 2006 CCD video camera may well look better than an off-air Muse HD picture from a 1990 tubed video camera. However that Muse HD picture almost certainly looked a major improvement over an off-air NTSC tubed picture from 1990... The Muse HD probably would probably significantly outperform a current MPEG2 2-3Mbs SD broadcast though - which is a fairer thing to compare MUSE with if you want to compare transmission system with transmission system (though Muse would have taken massively more bandwith I acknowledge!)

If you mean a HiVision picture rather than a Muse one (i.e. an uncompressed original recording or live picture) then the HiVision pictures I was seeing in the early 90s were still pretty good, and also component (though high bandwith component analogue not digital)

In decent conditions (the early 90s CCDs for HD were not as sensitive as modern SD cameras) both the HiVision and Eureka 1250 HD CCD cameras delivered excellent pictures - and I have to say the pictures from the tubed KCH 1000s were some of the best tubed pictures I ever saw - again in component analogue (they beat Sony 360s and LDK5s - both of which delivered lovely tubed pictures)

When recorded in 1440x1152 - the Philips/BTS HD CCD cameras of the early 90s at Wimbledon were cracking.

They were certainly far in advance of the broadcast typical PAL or NTSC cameras in use at the time. I was able to compare them to reasonably typical Sony BVP CCD cameras (7APs and 70/370Ps ISTR)


I do not consider Eureka as working system, not even if compared to Muse. It was designed as a test and political reasons. It was to keep Japanese and US HD technology from taking over Europe.


It may not have been a standardised production format - but compared to 1050/60i (aka 960/60i) it was a much more widespread format, and significant numbers of cameras were made by Thomson and Philips/BTS. There were significant numbers of trucks made for it - as witnessed by the coverage of both the Albertville and Barcelona games in it, and broadcast in HD MAC, which I watched in D2 MAC compatible mode at home. The trucks continued in service after the end of HD Mac broadcasts - as they were still capable of delivering higher quality pictures than even the best SD cameras.

A number of music and arts events were covered using them in the 90s - mainly to produce high quality laser disc releases. (I know people who worked on these. Some were covered using HiVision 1125/60i, some using Eureka 1250/50i)

The Eureka 1250 project also spurred the development of the D6 VTR format - the 3/4" (same form factor as D1 and D2 ISTR) uncompressed Philips/BTS VTR originally designed for digital recording Eureka 1250/50i video - though also modified to record 1125/60i stuff as well. This survived long after Eureka had died - and became the Voodoo DVTR used for uncompressed HD recording and non-real time digital film DataCine I believe... AIUI this has been an expensive, but significant workhorse in digital film?


While I agree Japanese worked on HD from 70's you give them too much credit as far as digital HD goes. Almost all of the HD digital equipment that was developed was because US going all digital.


I don't agree in production gear terms. There was a driving force for digital component SD production long before digital transmission was in vogue - I was working on early SDI gear in the very early 90s - and digital recording and processing was becoming standard at high-end by the mid-to-late 80s. (Sony launched the first production D1 DVTR in 1986/7) This was well before digital compression at the MPEG2 level was feasible.

It was widely accepted that HD had to move towards digital production ASAP by the early 90s - and whilst the production model gear was initially analogue (1" analogue HD VTRs and 1/2" UniHi) - HiVision already had digital production gear being developed or available by the mid 90s - starting off with an HD DVTR.


Muse was all analog.

I do not ignore their production, but people give them too much credit when it comes to digital HD. That is all. They were so stuck on their Muse system that it even ran for couple of years after digital HD was launched.



Yep - in transmission terms the Japanese were behind Europe and the US - who had both moved to MPEG2 SD (and in the US HD) compression for digital broadcasting.

I was talking about HiVision (the 1125/60i production system) not MUSE (the HD analogue compression system for broadcast)

However in PRODUCTION terms - the Japanese and European manufacturers (which Eureka 1250 probably gave a head-start to) were already driving HD digital production gear development.

Let's face it - without available 1080/60i production gear in 1998, which was only really there because the Japanese had developed their HiVision system for Muse broadcast, and been working on it for 20 years, there wouldn't have been much HD to show...



Btw, that is good that NHK news is 80% HD.

Yep - be interesting to see how much of AJI's output is HD - I hear that all their bureaux (London, Doha, Kuala Lumpur and Washington) are all HD capable - and their barker channel is 16:9 SD on Sky Digital in the UK.

Surely you mean shot in HiVision? MUSE was purely a transmission system - any recordings should have been well before this unless they were off-air (Muse WAS used for a minority Laser disc format I believe).

Depending on the age of the recording it may well have been shot on tubed cameras - however by the early 90s HiVision had CCD cameras AND digital VTRs (albeit quite unwieldy open-reel 1" in the first instance). Quality was very good at that time though - I was lucky enough to see some Sony digital HiVision recordings around that time.



Sure - uncompressed component digital SD from a 2006 CCD video camera may well look better than an off-air Muse HD picture from a 1990 tubed video camera. However that Muse HD picture almost certainly looked a major improvement over an off-air NTSC tubed picture from 1990... The Muse HD probably would probably significantly outperform a current MPEG2 2-3Mbs SD broadcast though - which is a fairer thing to compare MUSE with if you want to compare transmission system with transmission system (though Muse would have taken massively more bandwith I acknowledge!)

If you mean a HiVision picture rather than a Muse one (i.e. an uncompressed original recording or live picture) then the HiVision pictures I was seeing in the early 90s were still pretty good, and also component (though high bandwith component analogue not digital)

In decent conditions (the early 90s CCDs for HD were not as sensitive as modern SD cameras) both the HiVision and Eureka 1250 HD CCD cameras delivered excellent pictures - and I have to say the pictures from the tubed KCH 1000s were some of the best tubed pictures I ever saw - again in component analogue (they beat Sony 360s and LDK5s - both of which delivered lovely tubed pictures)

When recorded in 1440x1152 - the Philips/BTS HD CCD cameras of the early 90s at Wimbledon were cracking.

They were certainly far in advance of the broadcast typical PAL or NTSC cameras in use at the time. I was able to compare them to reasonably typical Sony BVP CCD cameras (7APs and 70/370Ps ISTR)



It may not have been a standardised production format - but compared to 1050/60i (aka 960/60i) it was a much more widespread format, and significant numbers of cameras were made by Thomson and Philips/BTS. There were significant numbers of trucks made for it - as witnessed by the coverage of both the Albertville and Barcelona games in it, and broadcast in HD MAC, which I watched in D2 MAC compatible mode at home. The trucks continued in service after the end of HD Mac broadcasts - as they were still capable of delivering higher quality pictures than even the best SD cameras.

A number of music and arts events were covered using them in the 90s - mainly to produce high quality laser disc releases. (I know people who worked on these. Some were covered using HiVision 1125/60i, some using Eureka 1250/50i)

The Eureka 1250 project also spurred the development of the D6 VTR format - the 3/4" (same form factor as D1 and D2 ISTR) uncompressed Philips/BTS VTR originally designed for digital recording Eureka 1250/50i video - though also modified to record 1125/60i stuff as well. This survived long after Eureka had died - and became the Voodoo DVTR used for uncompressed HD recording and non-real time digital film DataCine I believe... AIUI this has been an expensive, but significant workhorse in digital film?



I don't agree in production gear terms. There was a driving force for digital component SD production long before digital transmission was in vogue - I was working on early SDI gear in the very early 90s - and digital recording and processing was becoming standard at high-end by the mid-to-late 80s. (Sony launched the first production D1 DVTR in 1986/7) This was well before digital compression at the MPEG2 level was feasible.

It was widely accepted that HD had to move towards digital production ASAP by the early 90s - and whilst the production model gear was initially analogue (1" analogue HD VTRs and 1/2" UniHi) - HiVision already had digital production gear being developed or available by the mid 90s - starting off with an HD DVTR.



Yep - in transmission terms the Japanese were behind Europe and the US - who had both moved to MPEG2 SD (and in the US HD) compression for digital broadcasting.

I was talking about HiVision (the 1125/60i production system) not MUSE (the HD analogue compression system for broadcast)

However in PRODUCTION terms - the Japanese and European manufacturers (which Eureka 1250 probably gave a head-start to) were already driving HD digital production gear development.

Let's face it - without available 1080/60i production gear in 1998, which was only really there because the Japanese had developed their HiVision system for Muse broadcast, and been working on it for 20 years, there wouldn't have been much HD to show...



Yep - be interesting to see how much of AJI's output is HD - I hear that all their bureaux (London, Doha, Kuala Lumpur and Washington) are all HD capable - and their barker channel is 16:9 SD on Sky Digital in the UK.


What I meant was that the concert was shot in Analog HD in 1987 at Wembley stadium. They probably used tubed cameras then.

In 1998 there was not much HD to be broadcast, even though Japanese had 1080i equipment. US HD was supposed to be all progressive but in the early 90's there was no progressive equipment. Zenith actually had cameras and VTRS that they developed to show progressive scan.

You make it sound like US just took everything from Japanese and Europe. ATSC started working on HD in the late 80's. FCC right then said that the new system should be digital. I know for a fact that Japanese were pissed when their analog proposal was thrown out at the very beginning.

Also when I was talking about digital equipment development, I meant for production. I am sure there was driving force to go digital in the 80's but ATSC standarising on digital HD only system speeded it up, especially from Japanese makers. I am only talking HD here, and I realize that HD equipment can work in SD.

How many actual events were covered in HD MAC in Albertville and Barcelona. How many cameras did they use?. Even now it is still hard to do all the events in HD. That HD MAC coverage had to be very limited.

I would like to see how that HD MAC would look converted to todays HD. There must really be very little of it. I have seen plenty of stuff shot in analog HiVision but nothing from HD MAC. Did BBC transfer their recordings?. Do they even exist?.

One more thing. When we talk Europe we should say primarly UK. Only in UK, most programmes are widescreen and HD is coming soon. There is also some HD in Germany, but not much SD widescreen. It should be said that most countries in Europe are still 4:3 and analog and this includes most members of EU.

I think people on this forum get skewed view when we say Europe, but discuss things that happen mainly in UK and Germany.

What I meant was that the concert was shot in Analog HD in 1987 at Wembley stadium. They probably used tubed cameras then.


Definitely will have been tubed HiVision in 1987. Chances are they were Sony Saticons - hopefully a more advanced version than that used at the 1984 LA Olympics.

Won't have been Muse as a recording though - most likely it was a 1" analogue HD VTR. (ISTR that the early 1" HD VTRs were amongst the first VT machines to use metal particle tape rather than metal oxide?)


In 1998 there was not much HD to be broadcast, even though Japanese had 1080i equipment. US HD was supposed to be all progressive but in the early 90's there was no progressive equipment. Zenith actually had cameras and VTRS that they developed to show progressive scan.


Weren't the Zenith progressive HD cameras BTS KCH-1000 - a resolutely European camera. If you go over to Chuck Pharis's site (http://www.pharis-video.com/p3223.htm) you'll see a Zenith badged KCH-1000. These were also the original Eureka 1250 cameras (alongside some nowhere near as nice Thomsons...) - BTS made the sensible move of making their tubed cameras multi-standard capable. The first BBC HD I saw was shot on these - Wimbledon, Top of the Pops etc. Philips/BTS seemed to be keen on the idea of multistandard cameras - as their LDK 6000 also allowed for 720/60p and 1080/60i production (using 4320 line DPMS CCDs)

Not really sure you'd call a badged KCH-1000 a "Zenith developed camera"...



You make it sound like US just took everything from Japanese and Europe. ATSC started working on HD in the late 80's. FCC right then said that the new system should be digital. I know for a fact that Japanese were pissed when their analog proposal was thrown out at the very beginning.



Yep - Europe and the US both started looking at HD systems in the late 80s/early 90s. Both initially concentrated on analogue systems - Europe went quickly for an adaption of the MAC DBS system - HD MAC - and only really ever considered 1250/50. The US considered the Japanese 1125/60i system and MUSE broadcast, as well as 1050/60i (double 525) as well as a few progressive systems. ISTR that 720/60p was suggested as it was half way between 480/60i and 960/60i (aka 1050/60i) in line count terms but progressive?

The US didn't go down the digitally-assisted analogue route that Europe did - and so didn't hit the dead end that Europe did. (Though in the process Europe did get some useful experience in HD production - and had a number of HD OB units working throughout the 90s as a result - mainly in Germany and the UK)

Whilst the Japanese MUSE transmission system was not adopted by the US - the Japanese funded 1035/60i (1125/60i) system had such a decent range of production gear (switchers, cameras, VTRs etc.) and digital versions of these were either available or soon to be available, the choice of the "MPEG friendly" version of 1035/60i - 1080/60i was a sensible one.


Also when I was talking about digital equipment development, I meant for production. I am sure there was driving force to go digital in the 80's but ATSC standarising on digital HD only system speeded it up, especially from Japanese makers. I am only talking HD here, and I realize that HD equipment can work in SD.


I don't agree - the drive for digital production gear was advanced compared to tha drive to digital production. In Europe and Japan the analogue MAC and MUSE systems were analogue component based - and the nightmare of engineering analogue component facilities was significant. BSB had the only decent-sized analogue component install (and 16:9 at that) that I know of in the UK - with studios (including Sony BVP360 cameras), up-rated Beta SP VTRs (better luma response for 16:9) etc. all working component. It quickly became clear that if you wanted the flexibility you had previously had with composite facilities, you had to move to a single cable per signal standard (analogue component required 3 unless you used S-MAC - which nobody did) At the same time people were seeking a solution to route digital video - until this point carried on 25 way D-types over short distances as parallel video using ECL levels usually. The collision of these two requirements - by the very early 90s - created a requirement for serial digital. The original serial standard was a dog and never deployed - but SDI, by 1990/1991 became an obvious solution.

At around the same time it was obvious that digital HD was the future as well... This was well in advance of the US coming close to selecting an HD standard - though the knowledge that they were looking must have been significant!


How many actual events were covered in HD MAC in Albertville and Barcelona. How many cameras did they use?. Even now it is still hard to do all the events in HD. That HD MAC coverage had to be very limited.

I remember seeing downhill Skiing and ice skating, and I think ice hockey, as well as a studio show. I doubt many events had more than 6 cameras - and I think there were very few lightweights (and they were Thomson tubed cameras AIUI).

It was basic coverage - but it was competent given the limitations.

Barcelona was mainly based around the swimming and athletics ISTR - and had no studio. It did have a few beauty cameras, and multi-language commentary (an advantage of MAC was that you could send stereo effects at high quality, and multiple mono commentary channels, with the receiver mixing them. This model is still used in DVB for audio description for the visually impaired)

Both had HD graphics.


I would like to see how that HD MAC would look converted to todays HD. There must really be very little of it. I have seen plenty of stuff shot in analog HiVision but nothing from HD MAC. Did BBC transfer their recordings?. Do they even exist?.


Mac was only the transmission system. The 1250/50i material was described as Eureka. Recordings will have been made prior to MAC encoding - and will have been either on analogue VTRs or SD D1 VTRs using various techniques. The BBC used the 4xD1 1440x1152 uncompressed system (every 4th sample routed to a separate D1 - creating 4 720x576 streams) This allowed digital uncompressed recording - and was very high quality. Eventually it was replaced by 2:1 compression onto 2 x D1s, then 4:1 compression (similar to HD-D5 today) onto a single D1 VTR. AIUI these recordings still exist - though the early 4xD1 recordings were initially difficult to replay as finding 4 working D1s in the same room was a challenge - easily solved by using a modern video workstation to merge 4 single D1 replays together. They can be easily converted to 1080/50i - ISTR that Snell and Wilcox converters included 1250/50i in their earlier incarnations.

Certainly a reasonable number of BBC recordings exist - not sure if the Beeb recorded any HD Olympics though - as they were not directly involved in the production of this.

From memory the quality of the 4xD1 recordings and replay was very impressive - even in comparison with analogue component HD and SD.


One more thing. When we talk Europe we should say primarly UK. Only in UK, most programmes are widescreen and HD is coming soon. There is also some HD in Germany, but not much SD widescreen. It should be said that most countries in Europe are still 4:3 and analog and this includes most members of EU.

I think people on this forum get skewed view when we say Europe, but discuss things that happen mainly in UK and Germany.

Germany, Belgium, Scandinavia all have some 16:9 SD production and broadcast. I've watched 16:9 SD productions from all of these countries. Italy and Spain are far less advanced - some Italian OTA is still mono for goodness' sake. However most European pay TV operators run 16:9 SD movie services - even in Italy.

You are dead on that the UK is the most advanced in 16:9 SD in Europe - though Belgium and Germany traditionally led the way with HD. (Though the BBC and Thames both initially led with early experiments in the 80s) The UK now has a reasonable number of HD production trucks - Visions, Telegenic, Bowtie, BBC etc. though Alfacam in Belgium are still the European HD powerhouse.

These are the guys that don't race on ovals right?


What's an oval? Oh, tires, yes, they use tires. :p

I would rather keep F1 on Speed in non HD before I could stand listening to Derek Daly and Ralph Shaeen commentate another race :confused: over at CBS. Derek Daily is a fricken idiot. He just does not have a clue to what is going on. Neither does Ralph but at least he does pretend to. I would have been better off turning off the volume.

Erik

I would rather keep F1 on Speed in non HD before I could stand listening to Derek Daly and Ralph Shaeen commentate another race :confused: over at CBS. Derek Daily is a fricken idiot. He just does not have a clue to what is going on. Neither does Ralph but at least he does pretend to. I would have been better off turning off the volume.

Erik

I gotta second this. Absolutely, insufferably, the worst commentary I've ever subjected myself to. I cannot believe that CBS actually thinks this guy is worth paying.

Daly- how far you've fallen since covering F1 on ESPN with Varsha.

I would rather keep F1 on Speed in non HD before I could stand listening to Derek Daly and Ralph Shaeen commentate another race :confused: over at CBS. Derek Daily is a fricken idiot. He just does not have a clue to what is going on. Neither does Ralph but at least he does pretend to. I would have been better off turning off the volume.

Me three - that San Marino commentary was pathetic. There was the circuit commentary in the background at the beginning and you could hear Ralph repeating what had just been said. Its very frustrating to see stuff and have them completely miss it. With the guys on Speed its like having some very knowledgeable mates sitting watching with you.

The only good thing was seeing the CBSW feed with (a little) more bandwidth than the usual Speed on D*

Richard

What's an oval? Oh, tires, yes, they use tires. :p

Tyres for the British Grand Prix of course! (They take the tires off when they reach British waters...)

Sheehan needs to go. I can handle Daly for a bit but Sheehan I can't stand. I never liked him when he was on TNN either.

I gotta second this. Absolutely, insufferably, the worst commentary I've ever subjected myself to. I cannot believe that CBS actually thinks this guy is worth paying.

Daly- how far you've fallen since covering F1 on ESPN with Varsha.

I'll jump on the bashing bandwagon..

The commentary on CBS was quite possibly the worst I've heard in a long time. Listening to the screaming Derek Daly reminded me of the guy from the "Kaboom" and "OxyClean" commercials.. :rolleyes:

Did anyone catch how Daly just automatically knows the fuel strategy...first Shumy was on a light load cause I guess he was pulling away according to Daly. Then he was on a heavy load and Alonso was light. since Alonso was reeling him in. Then Shumy stays out longer than most of the field and Alonso is out even longer than Shumy. He just talks out of his arse and does not have a clue.

Sheehan keeps refereing to the race last week in Austraila...you mean three weeks ago.

I could go on, and on, and on.....

Their commentary made me a dumber person. I could have done a much better job, by miles.

Erik

Some dead horses are worth re-invigorating!

Just found this thread, so I was understandably (and incorrectly) excited by the fact that Sunday's Spain race was on CBS. I avoided news channels and friends who would spoil the result, recorded it on my curddy HD-DVR (6412 from Adelphia) and sat down tow atch it last evening. Only to be IMMENSELY disappointed ...
- Not in HD
- Ridiculous coverage/commentary, cutting to ads, (so-called) informative FYIs etc

Wow - I should found this thread first and saved myself the angst, eh? :)

I DO hope Speed improves and shows less oval racing of ANY sort, and more WRC & F1 ... and in HD soon!

I wouldn't hold my breath for too long waiting for HD F1. Yes, they will be using HD cameras to film the races, but broadcasting them in HD is a whole other story. I have not heard any immediate plans for an HD Speed channel and I doubt CBS will broadcast their races in HD. I think HDTV will have to be more widely adopted in Europe before we start seeing the pinnacle of motorsports as it was meant to be seen!

The commentary on CBS is grating on the ears and too irritating to listen to for 2 hours. Ralph Shaheen sounds like those annoying voiceovers that we hear on the car sales ads on local TV or FM radio. And the way he pronounces "cars" as "c-ae-rs" and "Ferrari" as "Ferr-eh-ri" literally drives me nuts. If I could reach into the TV, I would punch him in the face every time he opens his mouth !!

I wouldn't hold my breath for too long waiting for HD F1. Yes, they will be using HD cameras to film the races, but broadcasting them in HD is a whole other story. I have not heard any immediate plans for an HD Speed channel and I doubt CBS will broadcast their races in HD. I think HDTV will have to be more widely adopted in Europe before we start seeing the pinnacle of motorsports as it was meant to be seen!
CBS and Speed don't produce the video anyway (with the exception of the USGP, which is produced by Speed AFAIK). For all races Speed/CBS are getting video feeds from producers in the host country.

I think the silver lining here is that if CBS is going to take away a handful of races each year, they can have Barcelona and Monaco. The Spanish GP has always been a snooze-fest (as evidenced by the race on Sunday, completely devoid of any actual "racing" or passing) only rivaled by the most boring of the race of all in Monaco. With both of these tracks, the real "race" is on Saturday with qualifying.

June can't get here soon enough, I'm ready for some good F1 tracks again with room for passing.

The commentary on CBS is grating on the ears and too irritating to listen to for 2 hours. Ralph Shaheen sounds like those annoying voiceovers that we hear on the car sales ads on local TV or FM radio. And the way he pronounces "cars" as "c-ae-rs" and "Ferrari" as "Ferr-eh-ri" literally drives me nuts. If I could reach into the TV, I would punch him in the face every time he opens his mouth !!

I couldn't agree more. For me, the only thing worse than Ralph Shaheen's commentary is Derek Daly's "Well, well, well, the tire is round". If I simply can't wait to see the delayed Speed Channel broadcast I watch the CBS coverage on my DVR in FF1. As far as HD coverage - we could only hope.

Well, I'm going to paint a big bulls eye on my chest with this post but I just have to say...

I must be the only person in the world who doesn't hate Derek Daly's commentary for CBS. I actually agree with all the descriptions in this thread of his style (though they are exagertated for emphasis) but think he is doing an F1 101 course on purpose. F1 viewership in this couinrty is almost nil. He's trying to draw the more casual viewer into what little real drama exists in the racing. His excitement is genuine and I enjoy it. From the sound of it all you guys who posted here are long standing and knowledgeable F1 fans. I am too, but I don't let myself get insulted by him "talking down" to me. He has a job to do. And I think that is to try to hook the novice F1 viewer. Therefore he has to explain a lot of things that we all know but they might not. He's not perfect by any means and he can get a little annoying but like I said, I enjoy his enthusiasm and can tolerate his F1 lessons.

Well, I'm going to paint a big bulls eye on my chest with this post but I just have to say...

I must be the only person in the world who doesn't hate Derek Daly's commentary for CBS. I actually agree with all the descriptions in this thread of his style (though they are exagertated for emphasis) but think he is doing an F1 101 course on purpose. F1 viewership in this couinrty is almost nil. He's trying to draw the more casual viewer into what little real drama exists in the racing. His excitement is genuine and I enjoy it. From the sound of it all you guys who posted here are long standing and knowledgeable F1 fans. I am too, but I don't let myself get insulted by him "talking down" to me. He has a job to do. And I think that is to try to hook the novice F1 viewer. Therefore he has to explain a lot of things that we all know but they might not. He's not perfect by any means and he can get a little annoying but like I said, I enjoy his enthusiasm and can tolerate his F1 lessons.


I totally agree. Derek is one of my all-time favorite F1 commentators. #1 for me is probably Murray Walker and then Derek Daly & Sam Posey are next on my list.

Derek's excitement, enthusiasm, and terminology is fantastic. He'll always be one of my favorites.

Are you guys really listening to what Derek Daly says? He gets things wrong all the time -- it's a lot worse than just talking down to the audience. He is doing a disservice to new fans by getting his facts wrong. I don't believe he is all that interested in F1. I think he gets paid to do it, so he studies what he can. Then on race day he gets his facts mixed up and/or he gets confused with other motorsports.

He doesn't really know that much about the sport at all. They keep harping on about how he's a former driver. Yeah, back in the late 70s, early 80s. In 49 starts, he had 0 championships, 0 wins, 0 podiums, 0 poles, 0 fastest laps, and only 8 races where he got points. He was a back marker!

Some examples of things he's gotten wrong during F1 race coverage.
1. F1 doesn't have pace cars
2. The front wing on the Ferrari is already different. He showed the new wing, but talked about the old one. Steve Matchet explained it correctly during the qualifying coverage on Speed.
3. Alonso -- not Kimi -- was chased to the finish by Schumi at Imola 2005.
There's lots more. I'd say he averages about one dumb/wrong statement per lap.

2. The front wing on the Ferrari is already different. He showed the new wing, but talked about the old one. Steve Matchet explained it correctly during the qualifying coverage on Speed.
.

This one was particularly awful. If you had been watching F1 at all this season you have seen the shots of the Ferrari front wing flapping up and down. As you pointed out Steve Machet explained previously that the wing was probably still flapping around but that Ferrari had covered up the joint area that made the flapping so visible.

I consider myself a "casual" F1 fan, I very rarely watch qualifying, and even I can pick up that Derek Daly is simply LYING to the viewers. I actually don't mind Ralph Sheheen, he can be good at times but unfortunately he is stuck with a terrible broadcast partner.

And what is up with CBS not giving us the entire post race press conference?

Don't anyone get fooled. Derek Daly may be knowedgable about some motorsports, but F1 is not one of them. I am convinced he has to study up on the latest in F1 before each race, and then he gets mixed up and loses track of the real facts. In any case, he is misguided and is misrepresenting the sport.

The Speed F1 crew make a slip of the tongue every now and then, but they usually correct each other in short order. In any case, they really do know the sport quite well, and their presentation should be satisfying for newcomers to the sport as well as old fans. And when a race gets boring, they know how to find the interesting aspects of it.

Your right. I'm sure he has to study up before covering the races. He only does 3 or 4 a year as opposed to the SPEED team who do almost 20 a year... year after year after year. I guess I'm just more forgiving. What can I say, I just like the guy. Not to say that I don't like the SPEED boys, cause I really do! Especially Hobbs. I always chuckle when he comments on various drivers' "attachments".

But back to the topic... Gee it sure would be nice in HD!! :rolleyes:

I always chuckle when he comments on various drivers' "attachments"
Hobb's does love to have fun over Kimi's escapades. He and the crew were all over Kimi getting caught by his wife with unfaithful indiscretions...twice in one season. :rolleyes: This season their favorite target was Ide, until the FIA pulled his superlicense.

This just in!!!! THERE WILL BE 2 RACES IN HIGH DEFINITION



read below for information....
















yeah, I'll be attending both the Montreal GP and USGP...doesn't get much more high definition than that ;)

sorry...can't wait for Montreal

yeah, I'll be attending both the Montreal GP and USGP...doesn't get much more high definition than that ;)

sorry...can't wait for Montreal
My wife and I are planning to attend Monza and Spa next year. We go to the USGP every year, although Indy isn't signed for it beyond this year.

yeah, I'll be attending both the Montreal GP and USGP...doesn't get much more high definition than that ;)

sorry...can't wait for Montreal

Awesome! And you're local.

I'll start working on my master plan ... get adopted by someone who has an awesome home theater AND can take me travelling to watch auto racing events

Don't anyone get fooled. Derek Daly may be knowedgable about some motorsports, but F1 is not one of them. I am convinced he has to study up on the latest in F1 before each race, and then he gets mixed up and loses track of the real facts. In any case, he is misguided and is misrepresenting the sport.

The Speed F1 crew make a slip of the tongue every now and then, but they usually correct each other in short order. In any case, they really do know the sport quite well, and their presentation should be satisfying for newcomers to the sport as well as old fans. And when a race gets boring, they know how to find the interesting aspects of it.
Dean,
Good summary of the Speed guys. Derek is not right for F1 - I don't blame him for being so bad - I think CBS just does not have a good organization to properly show the race.

You would think they would make a deal with speed to use their guys - It would be a win win - as when Speed does their race presentation - 5AM (Denver time) there would be no conflicts with CBS programing.

Reggie

I had asked, a while back, what the best (cheapest) way to get speed channel in Tampa. Brighthouse has it, but it's part of their high dollar digital package. fios is new to town, and the speed channel is on their basic package. Hooray.

Install planned for this Friday.

You would think they would make a deal with speed to use their guys - It would be a win win - as when Speed does their race presentation - 5AM (Denver time) there would be no conflicts with CBS programing.
FOX owns Speed -- no mystery why Speed has become *the* source for whatever mindless NASCAR drivel only those with sub-100 IQ can dream up. I don't see any deals happening with CBS for the Speed F1 crew.

Sheehan needs to go. I can handle Daly for a bit but Sheehan I can't stand. I never liked him when he was on TNN either.

I don't think it was an accident that Speed had him doing WRC. Considering the brilliantly scheduled hour- 11PM on Sunday- they wanted it dead dead dead.

WRC is one of the few forms of racing that both F1 and NASCAR types can agree is really slick. As to why Speed killed it, that's a mystery to me.

To be honest, I'm surprised they've kept F1.

Public service quote edit follows ...

FOX owns Speed -- no mystery why Speed has become *the* source for whatever mindless NASCAR drivel only those with sub-10 IQ can dream up. I don't see any deals happening with CBS for the Speed F1 crew.

Formula 1 to go HiDef (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=668738)

In case you good folk missed it.

Speed to go HiDef (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=668738)

In case you good folk missed it.
You are jumping the gun. There's nothing about Speed here. All it says is the FOM (Formula One Management, the F1 commercial rights holder) is ready to try out HD equipment for broadcasting the CAGP and USGP. There's no guarantee it'll even be seen anywhere.

OK, so now we've got seven pages on HD Formula 1 in the HDTV programming forum, and no confirmed HD broadcasts for this season, on Speed (an SD channel) or anywhere else, right? What am I missing?

You are jumping the gun.

Oops - more like a wishful-thinking-slip.

I meant to type "F1 to go HD" and was wondering whether/if Speed ever would too ... and I condensed all that ;)

And audiomagnate - 7 pages? Easy solution - just change the number of posts you see per page to 60. Voila ... this is only page 4!
:D