In early December I joined this forum to assist me with the purchase of a 42" plasma EDTV. I started a thread comparing the NEC, LG and Panasonic and, through much research and a lot of plasma viewing, as well as with the assistance of the comments of many on this site, purchased the NEC VR5 42" just prior to Christmas. Key to my decision to buy the NEC over others was my feeling (based on repeated viewing of the 3 sets noted as well as Sony and Pioneer) that it produced a very realistic three dimensional picture and represents good value amongst the various EDTV offerings available at this time.

Since then I have been working with the plasma to get the best possible picture for DVD playback as well as TV. In doing so I have gone back to this site a few times to ferret out what others have done to set up their NEC's 42"s and it became apparent that there are actually a reasonable number of owners out there. It also seems to me, judging by the number of times various threads dealing with NEC's have been viewed, that there is a fair amount of interest in the NEC products.

Therefore, I thought it might make sense to try to create a single source - a one stop shop if you will - devoted to the NEC 42" EDTV's. The reason for not including the high definition "X" series is that I believe that the HD 42" sets will have much more in common with the 50" HD versions than with the ED's. It also will save us all the debate over which is better - ED or HD - in the 42" size. But please correct me if I'm wrong here.

Purpose of this resource thread is two-fold:

1) Provide a forum for current NEC 42" owners to exchange information re: settings, configuration tips, associated equipment that mates synergistically with the unit (ie. DVD players, set top boxes), source material (esp. DVD's) that highlight the strengths/weaknesses of the unit, etc.

2) Provide an information source for those interested in the NEC ED models looking to find out more about them.

I believe that using DVD's as source material will provide the best opportunity to help all of us as the software is readily available and it will be easy for others to replicate/compare/contrast each of our findings at our respective home or in sales outlets. Additionally, EDTV's and DVD's share the same basic resolution and therefore DVD's should provide arguably the best possible picture. Knowing that each of our experiences will be anecdotal and subjective, going this route will at least provide others with a chance to try to see the same things that we're each seeing.

This is not to exclude references to SD or HD TV watching and how it does/does not look good on the NEC. The key is that there are many variables in the methods of delivery (cable, satellite, over the air) for television and that, coupled with the transitory nature of the medium (ie. shows are only on at certain times and in certain markets) means that it will be difficult for anyone else to replicate what any of us sees. Don't misunderstand me here - I'm highly interested in others' experiences with SD TV feeds. However, it seems to me that that information will be more general in nature due to the variables specific to each person's home/each sales outlet.

So having said that perhaps its clearer to say that in the best of all worlds contributors could perhaps relate their findings separately to TV and to DVD reproduction.

I hope that this thread will evolve over the coming weeks/months as interested parties contribute tips, tricks and general knowledge - all designed to obtain the best possible picture out of the NEC.

Having said that, here are a few notes so far:


BACKGROUND - VIEWING ENVIRONMENT:

Plasma: NEC VR5 42"

Set-up: Stand mounted. I chose to go with a stand as I wanted to pull the unit away from the wall in order that it might "float" in space in the dimness at night - which is how I do the bulk of my viewing .

Key measurements/TV: The front of the screen is 15" from the rear wall currently - I may move it closer to the wall. The plasma sits on a Sanus frosted glass/steel frame stand. The stand is 22.25" tall, and the top of the plasma 48.75" inches off the floor (47.25" inches to the top of the actual screen - the remaining 1.5" is the silver bezel).

Distances for viewing: Seated in a couch more or less centred on the TV my eyeball to screen distance is 9' and my seated height is 44". So I'm looking slightly down into the centre of the screen (it feels like I'm looking straight ahead level with the centre of the image).

Room/Environment: The room is dedicated to HT and measures 12' deep x 11.5' wide. The plasma is on the 11.5' wide wall. Walls are neutral taupe colour.

I thought to provide the above in order that my comments that will follow re: resolution, colour, etc. can be put into context.


TEST DVD'S:

Following are the DVD's I have used most frequently to test my set-up the last few weeks:

1. DVE - all chapters but especially for picture resolution and colour fidelity section 1 chapter 5 "Nasa Montage", section 7 chapters 1 - 12 re: video calibration, and basically all of sections 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 and the audio/video demo's in section 17

2. Seabiscuit - various chapters for colour fidelity, and especially for skin tones

3. Master and Commander - Scene 3, fog scenes for false contouring

4. XXX - resolution of detail in walls (scene 10 "Milan Sova" and 11 "Anarchy 99") and depth of field/detail for interior (scene 16 "lunch with a secret agent)

There are many others but I have tried to cut this down to a few readily available discs that are good tools. Please suggest others.



DVD PROCESSOR VS. NEC PROCESSOR (COMPONENT VS. INTERLACED)

I did some tests to ascertain which is the best of the above options. My DVD player is a Pioneer DV 37A which, unfortunately is not equipped with a DVI or HDMI output. So the signal was carried by 2m of Monster Video 3 component cable into the NEC component ins.

I a/b'd back and forth, pausing the test tracks and then switching from 480p component (Pio processor) to outputting an interlaced 480i signal and letting the NEC processor do the work. On the movie scenes above I was hard pressed, try as I might, to see any difference. However, when I used DVE two things became apparent:

1) Section 13 chapter 7 (Pb and Pr Sweep) - on the coloured bars on the right side of the screen the last 10% or so became indistinct and fuzzy when I output interlaced.

2) Section 15 and 16, video test signals, I saw small bits of noise in some of the smaller "boxes" and on the central moving pattern when outputting interlaced.

Conclusion - Either the DVD player or cable is imposing an error on the signal or the Pioneer is doing a better job of processing the signal in component. At any rate, I have stuck with component output since (except for the following test).


COMPONENT CABLE VS. S VIDEO CABLE

I tried the same test as above, this time using an "UltraLink" S video cable, also 2 m and outputting 480i. In this case the picture appeared more bright but also more "etched" when watching movies. On the 2 DVE sections noted above, section 13/7 was much worse, with fully the right half of the screen showing basically mush, and the video test signals exhibing increased noise.

On the basis of these 2 tests I have stuck with component output from the Pioneer at 480p.


CONTRAST

I know that NEC doesn't publish its contrast settings but have to say that I have never had an issue with the contrast, either in dim light or daylight. Compared side by side with the Panasonic and LG (4000:1 and 5000:1 respectively) the NEC held its own with respect to contrast.


QUESTIONS:

1. Has anyone tried to a/b a signal output from a DVI or HDMI DVD player into the NEC's DVI input? Has this been tested at 480p as well as at 720p and 1080i (assuming that the player will do so - ie. the Panasonic S97S). Any comments re; PQ comparisons? I'm interested to know if there is a substantial PQ upgrade by going with the DVI input and foregoing the digital/analogue/digital conversion when using component.

2. What experiences have others had with sending the NEC a 480i signal?

3. What DVD players have you found to work well with the NEC (ie. synergistic mates) and why? I'm not sure that the Pioneer DV 37A cannot be replaced with a better/newer model (its about 4 years old).


I must also apologize for one thing. This was going to be a much longer post, describing settings etc. but I have run out of time. Hopefully this will "prime the pump" though and others will contribute their experiences with the various inputs, settings, equipment and configurations for the NEC 42" models.

I will add more in the future. Sorry to cut and run!

johnnycanuck

Johnny,

Just a quick note to say thanks for getting this started and the information you have provided. I purchased the 42VM5 right before Christmas and am very satisfied so far...BTW, purchased from Plasma Concepts and the service was great. I have to say that I am no expert in this area and probably not the most discriminating viewer so I'll likely be taking alot more than I can give to this thread.

For DVD I'm using a Cambridge Azur 540D via component video output. I suscribe to D* and have an RCA Ultimate TV PVR using S video output. I plan to switch to the high def Tivo in the next few months, so I'm "saving" the DVI connection on the VM5 for that. I'll miss the PIP function of the UTV as I use it quite a bit watching NFL Sunday Ticket. Frankly, I have been quite pleased with the SD picture on this display, having come from a Panny 32" CRT I can say the NEC is every bit as good for my day to day viewing habits. I can't wait to see HD on this display! So far have watched a bunch of DVDs with the kids as they now want to see every DVD they have ever owned on the new TV. Just watched Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Ascoban which is very dark and never felt the blacks were an issue. Right now I have my brightness and contrast dialed pretty far down, low 20's off the top of my head, until I get through a break in period. I love the fact that the Azur 540D and UTV both have a built in screen saver function for when the kids pause an image out of habit and leave the room. I have not seen a trace of image retention so far, and am making sure to view everything full screen for now. I find the Stadium strech mode very acceptable for SD TV watching. Looking forward to seeing your settings when you have time to post...very helpful for a rookie like myself.

David

Sorry for the relatively simple questions, but what's the difference between the VR5 and the VM5? At a quick glance I couldn't see any significant difference besides the bezel color. Also, does the VR5 and/or VM5 come with a tuner?

How is the fan noise and image retention on the NEC ED plasmas? From other threads in the forum, it appears the NEC HD plasmas (well the 50" at least) suffer from both of these issues. Not that either one is a deal killer for me.

NEC ED plasma doesn't have fans, so this is not an issue. I can hear it buzzing sometimes though. This may be related to the 220v/50hz power in my country though.
I did see some image retention on my plasma. It is relatively new (just under 60 hours) and I'm trying to use it with low contrast and brightness levels, not watching stuff with black bars and logos etc. Once I browsed through the Spiderman 2 DVD in full mode (with bars) just to see how it looks. Right after that I immediately turned the screen off in complete darkness and I could see black bars on the screen. The other example, I saw dark vertical band in the middle of the screen after playing titles at the end of the movie. This was only visible on the black screen (turned on) and quickly wend away. I could not see any image retention that was visible when the screen was on and showing other content.

Originally posted by babigm
Sorry for the relatively simple questions, but what's the difference between the VR5 and the VM5? At a quick glance I couldn't see any significant difference besides the bezel color. Also, does the VR5 and/or VM5 come with a tuner?

I believe the VR5 is considered a residential model, VM5 commercial. Main difference as you note is bezel color, but also has 3 year warranty versus 1 year. Think it also comes with DVI cable. Neither the VR5 or VM5 has built in tuner.

just to add my 2 cents. (i have had the VM5 for approx 2 weeks, thanks to JC's and others fabulous comments.)

1) total bevel (outside and non-viewable screen) is larger than immagined. not a big deal.
2) no problem with IR
3) no problem with black levels.
4) daytime viewing can produce glare.
5) missing PIP features.

overall, very happy with the purchase!

is this only for ED Nec ?

I have the HD XM2 and this thread is such a good idea, hopefully applies to both.

I have had mine for just a year now, never have calibrated, I am sure I am missing something. Yet the PQ is excellent. And mine did not come with all setting maxed out, everything was right in the middle and that is where I left it.

Now, I did purchase DVE (something like that) for calibration but never used it. Should I ?

gio

also could anyone imagine differences, particularly in PQ, between my model (XM2) which is more that 1 year old, and the current ones ?
I noticed that the XM2 is still offered and at a price that is not so different that what I paid for.

Any comments ?

Windwaves, as more senior NEC owners, I guess we're to be left out of this thread... (ED only).

But as mentioned before, NEC are very sensitive to feed cable quality. Don't skimp on your cables or you will be disappointed.

NOTE: The new Pioneer 42" ED plasma appears to be a pure NEC that has been rebadged. It is also priced very competitively.

Indeed, certainly senior by now. How long have you had yours now ?

You are right, you did mention that about the cables. I have a mixture of cables, nothing high end, but I can't notice any problem with the pq so far, hence I've had very little incentive to check. Well, what I am saying is that one of these days I will have to do that as well as dig out my DVE disc and do some calibration. I have a feeling I still have lots to get out of the plasma, I never really played with it. And I want to get the famoust Momitsu, I remember you were pretty happy with it!

Also, did you notice that the diff. betweem XM2 and XM2/S is now almost nothing, can't recall exavtly, very interesting.

Sorry long - I will erase this later !

gio

all the best

Its taken me longer than I expected to complete the tweaking of the NEC display - and I know I'm not there yet. But I thought I'd post an interim set of measurements. But first ...

BABIGM
Martini Man is correct. The only thing I also picked up when looking at these models is that the remote for the VR5 features buttons to access the various inputs directly (ie. video 1, 2, 3, DVD/HD 1, 2, 3, etc). I understand that the VM5 remote isn't equipped with direct access buttons - you have to work through an onscreen menu. Contrast, Picture Mode, Colour Temp and Brightness are also one touch button accessible from the VR5 remote, which is highly convenient. I'm not sure if this is the case with the VM5.

WINDWAVES
(evocative handle - sailor by any chance?) I have spent a fair amount of time working with the DVE disc with excellent results. I strongly suggest that you try it especially since you already own it. Write down your settings in advance so that you can restore them or, better yet, use one of the NEC's memory settings as your DVE sample and then you can toggle between the original and DVE adjusted ones and see which you prefer.

WBLYNCH
Yes, I set this up originally as an ED thread simply because I thought the HD version would have different set-up issues, questions etc. But that was just a thought at the time. If it makes sense to use this as an open forum for both ED and HD 42" models lets do it. I think its more important to have a place to exchange information on the NEC plasmas than that the thread be prescriptive. Feel free to add your comments etc.

BTW, you mention the importance of "feed cable quality" for the NEC. What brand/model are you using or have you heard works well with these models?


On with the saga ...

One of the things that has been timeconsuming in this adventure has been the sheer adjustability of the NEC VR5. This is one tuneable beast and I know I have't got the last ounce of performance wrested from it - but I'm getting there. A couple of notes re: its flexibility (more for non owners than owners):

PRE-SET PICTURE SETTINGS
The VR5 allows you to ajust and set all parameters of picture (details below) secifically for each of its inputs - Video 1, 2, 3, DVD/HD 1. 2, 3 abd PC/RGB. PLUS it permits one to set 6 picture memory settings independently - ie. they're not dedicated to a particular input. This is in addition to the "picture mode" settings that quickly allow one to tailor the picture to the ambient lighting of the room with Theatre 1 and 2 (for dark rooms - my dominant mode), Normal (for bright rooms), Bright (brighter than Normal) and Default (for fatcory default settings).

COLOUR TEMP
This function offers 4 standard settings - Low (redder), Middle Low (slightly red), Middle (standard - slightly bluer) and High (bluer). But not only can you select one of the above, but you can also adjust the White Balance for each of the settings to a significant extent by accessing a sub-menu that allows you to adjust the "Gain" for each of Red, Green and Blue (which provides white balance adjustment for white levels) and "Bias" for each of Red, Green and Blue (which provides white balance adjustment for black levels). I used this control to significantly fine-tune the colour of the display using the excellent "Steaming Rat" approach.

OTHER ADJUSTABLE PICTURE QUALITY PARAMETERS
In addition to the above, the standard Contrast, Brightness, Sharpness, Colour and Tint cotrols are included, as well as Noise Reduction (3 levels), Gamma (to adjust the Gamma curve in 4 steps of increasing darkness), Low Tone Adjustment (to allow more detailed tone to be reproduced, especially in dark areas - 4 settings), Set Up Level (black level - 0%, 3.75% lower than normal, 7.5% lower than normal), Colour tune (red, green, blue, yellow, magenta, cyan) and Cinema Mode (on/off).

These are just the directly picture related settings, without delving into the HD screen modes (anamorphic, zoom, etc.), HD settings, Image Adjustment (position on screen) Screen Savers, etc , etc.

My point is that this is an incredibly versatile and adjustable display - one that with a bit of work will yield the kind of gorgeous pictures you see in the Steaming Rat thread.

CURRENT SETTINGS - DVD:
Here are the current settings I have determined for DVD - but its a work in progress and will be revised. Note: I will not include TV settings yet as I have not done any more than rudimentary work on the cable feed signal. Source - Pioneer DV 37A via component feed by Monster Video 3 cable.

DVD player settings (the Pioneer also has its own menu of highly adjustable settings). I set these first and then worked on the display, on the premise that its best to do as much signal processing as possible in the DVD player (see first post re: test of DVD player vs. plasma video processing). All of the following offer either on/off or a bar (sliding scale) with 8 segments from left to right, with off generally on the left and full on the right.

Progressive Motion - full slow (8 of 8)
Pure Cinema - on
YNR - 2/8 (Noise Reduction)
CNR - 7/8 (Noise Reduction - useful in getting clean test patterns in DVE)
MNR - 4/8 (Mosquito Noise)
BNR - 5/8 (Block Noise Reduction)
Sharpness High - 1/8
Sharpness Mid - 1/8
Detail - 4/8
White Level - 3/8
Black Level - 3/8
Black Set-up - 0 IRE
Hue - 4/8 (midpoint between green and red)
Chroma Level - 3/8
Chroma Delay - 5/8 (useful in getting clean test patterns in DVE)

I suspect that the DV 37A outputs a slight green bias based on the adjustments I made to the VR5. Given the signal adujsted as per the above, following are my settings for the plasma display:

Contrast - 24 (midpoint is 32 in all of the following to Tint)
Brightness - 37
Sharpness - 2
Colour - 30
Tint - 30
NR - Off
Colour Temp - Middle with the following adjustments:
Gain Red - 38 (mid is 40 for the following to Bias Blue)
Gain Green - 40
Gain Blue - 43
Bias Red - 38
Bias Green - 40
Bias Blue - 40
Gamma - 2.2
Low Tone - Auto
Set-Up Level - 0%
Colour Tune (adjusted as per following)
Red - 30 (mid is 32)
Green - 28
Blue - 32
Yellow - 32
Magenta - 32
Cyan - 31
Cinema Mode - On
Picture Mode - Theatre 1

I still have a few things to complete adjusting. I see more graininess in some images (ie. light coloured sky) than I'd like and also in the DVE test images (Chapter 17 section 2) the orange animated plants that grow out of the screen show a disturbing small bit of noise in a few specific sections pf the fine detail of roots. I think that can be removed but I still have to work at it.

I'm interested in anyone's response to the above - comparisons and contrasts? I believe that I have got the colour and picture detail calibrated based on DVE, Seabiscuit, XXX, Master and Commander etc. Occasionally, ie. with Black Hawk Down, I thought the picture looked slightly better with the Colour Temp set to the "Middle Low" position as it warmed things up a little. But I'd be the first to admit that I have not yet mastered this display - but it looks significantly more real than it did when first powered up.

I'm also very curious whether the VR5 will look better with a direct DVI feed, avoiding the conversion to/from analogue that is required when one uses the component input. The Panasonic S97S is a pretty inexpensive player that seems well reviewed (other than the macroblocking issue) and would allow the digital image feed. Does anyone have one hooked up to a VR/VM5? Any comments?

PS AUDIO UPC 200
Here's one more thing that has affected the quality of my picture and audio significantly. Last weekend I purchased one of these units primarily for protection of the plasma after heavy research on the Forum Accessories site re: power conditioners. I also thought that it might clean up the noise on the picture that I referred to above. Since I had it on trial it was a no risk proposition.

I ran a few DVD sections (test DVD's as above) to get a reference feel and then re-plugged everything into the UPC 200. Since I have only 4 components - display, receiver, VCR/tuner and DVD player - and since the unit comes with 4 outlets it suited my needs perfectly. Additionally, internally the UPC 200 allows you to group together the 2 pairs of its 4 outlets so that you have 2 completely isolated duo outlets. I plugged the plasma and DVD Player into one set (both digital devices) and the receiver and VCR into the other set (both analog devices).

When I fired everything back up the changes were immediate and readily apparent. These were:

VIDEO:
- Slightly reduced noise
- Better dimensionality, clearer outlines around people and objects and a better sense of depth
- Brighter and more vibrant colours
Overall the effect was like one of those Tide laundry ads - brighter brights and whiter whites. The picture was simply punchier, truer and more 3 dimensional - and much more "real" looking.

AUDIO:
- More holographic presentation ... things were located in space better and images were more precisely located in space
- Sharper transients and more articulate base
- Deeper base
- Clearer and more natural sounding, as if a layer of grunge had been removed
- Slight hum in the audio feed from the VCR gone
Overall the effect was to create a more believable, smoother and more relaxing soundstage that supported the movies to a greater degree than previously. Black Hawk Down from Chapter 4 ("Irene") to the end of the helicopter crash was very useful in demonstrating the change due to the excellent audio track with its many highly localized sounds, lots of panning helicopters and other vehicles, each with its own specific sonic signature, etc.

I unplugged everything and tried it again just to be sure that the differences I was seeing/hearing were not solely in my mind. But they were as apparent the second time as the first.

I know that there is a raging debate out in Forum land about whether these devices are snake oil or useful. I'm not going to get into that - merely reporting my anecdotal findings that are specific to my home and my equipment. I was openly sceptical at first and bought the UPC 200 on trial primarily as a long term surge protector. I possibly could have obtained the same effects by running dedicated lines to the outlets as one Forum reader suggested in a PM to me. But that would not have given me the protection I sought. In the future I expect to do so just to see what the difference might be. But for now, the UPC 200 has become a key piece of equipment in my set-up and it has contributed significantly to my enjoyment of DVD's by making them look and feel much more real.

Long post - sorry about that. I had meant to get this in over a few days in pieces but the post-holiday return to work has been hectic.

I'm interested in any/all responses. What do y'all think? What settings do you use for DVD? What about TV? One advantage of the memory settings of the VR5 is that if you post your settings any of us can try them in our systems and quickly a/b compare. That might assist all of us to dial in the performance of our displays quickly.

Thanks. I'll post more updates re: the VR5 PQ shortly. Cheers,

johnnycanuck

johnnycanuck,
fantastic post. I stopped at some point because I have to print this out and go through it while at home in front of my plasma. I can't disagree with you, I should go ahead with DVE !!!

As to ED vs HD I wonder whether there are great differences in the way one sets them up, but I would guess not for non HD material at least. Anyone ?

And you got that right, my user name is form my big time favorite sport, windsurfing, and in general I love sailing.

Anyhow, I will play around with my set and revert.

best

Has anyone figured out how to adjust overscan on the NEC? Oversan is often mentioned in other threads as offering a substantial improvement in PQ, which is why I thought it would be worth looking into.

There is a menu item called "Image Adj" that I've fiddled with a bit, but I'm not entirely sure this is adjusting for overscan. Contained within are settings for horizontal and vertical image size adjustment (as well as horizontal and vertical image position adjustment), which on my PDP were defaulted to "1". I tried setting both image size adjustment settings to "0", and there was a definite contraction of the image, but no perceptible improvement in PQ.

Has anyone played with this setting, and if so, did it have any obvious effect on PQ (either positive or negative)? Or is oversacn something that can only be adjusted from within a service menu, and if so, does anyone know how to get into that menu?

Thanks

johnnycanuck, Thanks for the Great Post . :)

Windwaves:
Thanks. Just another traveller on this road who has found a friendly inn here, one in which I can grab a seat by the fire and, tankard in hand, share stories of my journey with fellow travellers. We're not all bound for the same destination but, like travellers of old, our tales and information may assist others in their quests. I look forward to your settings info.

Desjars:
Like you I'm curious. I'd like to make this overscan adjustment as well but have not delved into it yet.

Bruzzi:
Thanks. Feel free to add/comment. I'm just trying to chronicle/collect what works and what doesn't with these displays.


Here are a few updates:

Gain Blue Adustment - after repeated viewing of a number of scenes from Seabiscuit and other DVD's, scenes that show close-ups of faces or white objects especially, I have adjusted the Gain Blue in the Colour Temp menu from 43 back to 40 (default setting). This has softened the fleshtones just a bit and made the whites a little more natural - they had looked a touch bright.

Cinema On - In the post of my stettings I noted that I had the "Cinema" control set to On. This is incorrect - I was mixing up my notes from the cable settings I had been working on. As I have the DVD/HD input set at the moment the option "Cinema Mode" doesn't appear on the menu. I''m curious if this is the case with others or whether I have adjusted something that has made it disappear as an option. It still shows on the video inputs but not DVD - which I find a little odd since the purpuse of Cinema Mode seems to be to "Set the picture to suit the movie. The film image is automatically disriminated and projected in an image mode suited to the picture" (ie. NTSC, PAL, 480i etc.). I can only presume that since I'm feeding a 480p signal out of the DVD player this menu is not required. Does anyone know anything about this control and how it functions? BTW, I find that the NEC operation manual tells you HOW to do things but not WHAT they do, or the differences between them. Guess I was hoping for more "education" along with the basic instructions.

Black Levels and Grain:
I spent a fair bit of time last night working with the Low Tone Settings. Options are "Auto", "1" (which applies dither for still pictures), "2" (which applies dither for motion pictures) and "3" (which applies the error diffusion method). The one thing that I still have to work out in my settings is that there remains a slight grain that can be seen in some images, and it seems to be a function of noise of some kind. I wondered if this was an artifact of the component input but can't test that until I have a DVD player that outputs to DVI.

But the Low Tone Settings control does make a marked difference. First, I ignored "1" as its for stills only. Toggling back and forth between "Auto" and "3" it seemed that they were applying the same type of thing (error diffusion) as I could never tell the difference between them. Toggling back and forth between "2" and "3" the difference between error diffusion and dither was obvious. These included:

1. On setting "2" (dither) the dark parts of the picture cleaned up significantly and the noise I referred to mostly disappeared. I could see this both in small areas (dark part of a leaf) as well as overall on the full screen. It was readily apparent on the DVE chapter 17/2 section of video test images in the fountains scene. In this one the background black areas were pretty noisy on setting "3" but much cleaned up on "2". The changes on the entire screen were easy to see from a distance of 12" while toggling back and forth between "3" and "2". The noise overall wasn't completely eliminated but this was a step in the right direction. I thought I had the problem licked but ...

2. On careful viewing I noticed, again from 12" distance, that the "2" setting was imposing another kind of noise, almost an aurora (best word I can think of to describe it - if you've seen the northern lights you'll know what I mean). Its not like it was a rainbow coloured noise but it had elements of colour in it and appeared in specific areas, usually where there was a dark background with a highlight or some other type of faint lighting that it could not completely resolve. And it moved around in the area of the highlight in the same way that the northern lights move - ie. it fluctuated in position and in colour probably in accord with the intensity of the highlight it was trying to reproduce. This showed up in the lighting around the buildings in the background of the fountain scene (DVE 17/2) in the background left and right very clearly. It also showed up on the darker shoulder of the man eating dinner with the woman in 17/3. In that case it was like a very small section of dark violet or purple strobing pixels.

So I am unsure what the correct application of the Low Tone Settings is. I can clearly see the difference between the "error diffusion" and "dither" methods but perhaps others can guide me re: the one to choose. In the "Auto" mode I'm curious as to whether it applies elements of both methods or just variable amounts of error diffusion.

Meanwhile, the slight grain problem I have persists. Anyone have any suggestions? Maybe its the Monster Video 3 Component Video cable I'm using.

Cables:
Just a comment to follow up what wblynch remarked re: cables. I had a no name but supposedly good quality video composite cable connecting the VCR (and tuner) to the plasma so I can watch standard def TV. However, the picture was poor (muddied) and I was seeing a lot of scrolling lines etc. When I first hooked the PD up I thought this might be due to a poor cable signal. But before complaining to my cable company I decided to replace the video cable. I bought a 6' Radio Shack Evolution ll high performance composite video cable on sale for cheap and replaced the existing lead. Problem mostly solved - at least significantly better picture. Its not perfect by any stretch but it is much improved and at least watchable. So I believe wblynch nailed it.

So ... what cables are people using with the VR/VM 5 model? Which cable products are working in your set-up?

TV Settings:
I have been working on the TV settings and will post them this weekend. The most difficult issue is the variability in colour and quality of signal (colour, sharpness, noise) on various channels. They are all different. This is likely not as much of a problem for those of you with satelite feeds I suspect - the times I have seen those feeds I have been impressed by how much better the PQ is vs. cable. I'm working on a compromise setting that works optimally for most cable channels - will post later.

On the cable note has anyone tried one of those cable signal amplifiers/boosters? In my house the cable run from the external box to my TV set is long - literally diagonally corner to corner. The cable length is probably 60'. Do you think the addition of one of these will improve the signal and PQ? Anyone use one?

PS Audio UPC 200
One note I forgot to mention in my last post. On audio one of the benefts has been the raising of the apparent source of sound from the CC. My CC (Paradigm CC 470 in an all Paradigm Studio system) sits immediately below the PD. I have raised the front edge of the CC slightly in order to tilt the cabinet up a bit and direct the sound more towards the listener's ears. With the addition of the UPC 200 the sound from the CC actually moved upwards to appear to source from the centre of the plasma screen as opposed to slightly below it. This is the type of increased "holographic" presentation I was referring to.

I have a theory re: why the UPC 200 is improving the quality of audio and picture. I believe that the power conditioning unit is probably compensating for barely adequate power supplies in the receiver and DVD player. Both the Pioneer DV 37A and the Denon 1603 receiver (good enough for my needs in a small room) are not high end pieces. Better quality electronics always feature much more robust power supplies, power filters, etc. I suspect that in less expensive AV electronics the power sections are designed to function best under "perfect" conditions and that what is at work here is that the UPC is providing the components with the cleanest, most regulated signal possible - in other words much closer to "perfect" than the straight wall feed. Just my .02 on why this is improving things. Comments?


That's all in the way of updates for now. I have tickets to the Seahawks/Rams playoff game this aft and was originally going to drive down there from Vancouver for the game. But its snowing here and the I-5 highway is treacherous. So looks like I'll watch the game from home on TV - which should give me plenty of time to adjust the TV settings. :-)

Ciao for now.

johnnycanuck

I have VR5 connected via digital cable to Pioneer 868i DVD player. I compared digital and component signals. Even though I haven't spent much time playing and tweaking I have noticed a difference (which is not big). The digital picture is more sharp and crisp, but component is more smooth on tones and half tones and less noisy. So, yes, the digital connection does give some noise on blue sky and things like that and can even be more noisy than component. I think this may be related to the fact that component feed goes through the 12-bit color processor of NEC which is otherwise bypassed with digital connection.

Hmmm ... Thanks Mojito. But if I follow what you're saying then would not the best route for the time being be to go via component inputs and take advantage of the 12 bit video processing if your feed is 480p from a DVD player? And if the plasma's video processor is bypassed when you feed via the DVI inputs then where is the video processing applied - the source device?

The 12 bit processing will give you the 4096 shades of grayscale etc will it not? And that is what I believe is one of the strengths of this display, and one of the reasons it exhibits very, very few false contours and produces a highly dimensional image. Is it true that the DVI input cuts this processor out of the chain, or am I misunderstanding things here?

Part of the reason I ask is that I have been contemplating purchasing a DVI out player such as the Denon 2910 or an HDMI out unit like the Panasonic S97S in order to take advantage of the DVI input on the NEC (notwithstanding the macroblocking issue). From your post it appears that this purchase would be a waste of money if the goal is to improve PQ.

Comments? Thanks.

johnnycanuck

From my position of ignorance, and without a lot of thought, I wonder if the following is true:

For non-HD of any type, including DVD, quality is based less on the connection than on the image processor. A really, really good processor in a TV would negate the value of the DVI cable, because you'd be relying on the image processor in the source device (e.g. DVD player). You might be better off sending an analog (component) signal, and letting the TV work its magic.

On the other hand, if you have a DVD player with an exceptional processor, you'd want to use DVI to pass the full digital glory of the image to the TV, and avoid any extraneous processing at that end.

For an HD source, with HD material, it should be as good as it's going to get to the bit level at the source, so the fewer conversions the better... this is where DVI/HDMI ought to shine.

Does this make sense to those that actually understand this stuff?? :confused:

I see that the input panel on the VR5 is on the side of the panel. Is this recessed at all? I am considering buying this, and would be putting it in a cabinet that will be a pretty tight fit. So the question is, once you've got your cables plugged in, how far does it stick out beyond the edge of the panel? I would have the cables then wrap around behind the panel.

On my VM5, the cables are recessed, IIRC. (not in front of it right now). But regardless of that, make sure you have lots of unrestricted airflow around the NEC. Putting this display in a "tight" cabinet sends up a red flag, to me at least.

J.

It will be sitting in an armoire, at the front of the main opening. The sides of the panel will come up very close to the sides of the armoire (less than 1"). Above and behind will be plenty of space. Does that seem better?

Don't mind me, I'm just obsessive about stuff like this. Best recommendation: have a look at the NEC documentation that came with the plasma...it should give you the minimum recommended clearances for airflow.

J.

Now that I think about it more, they do sell a cover for the input panel, and I would assume it mounts flush to the rest of the side of the panel. Anyone know for sure?

If it does mount flush, I should be fine, since if you were using the cover, the cables would have to wrap in a similar manner as what I need them to do.

I have the VM5 installed in a 22" deep armoire that is 41" wide. The side inputs are set back several inches to allow for cables. I did not even bother with the cover, and you can't see the cables at all as the NEC supplies a couple plastic zip ties to bundle your wires.

Thanks, just what I needed to hear (especially since I already placed my order this morning and just saw this little tidbit now!). After much painful deliberation between this and the panny 7uy, I went with the NEC. Cable guy is coming Saturday to hook up my new dvr/hd box (comcast), woo f'n hoo!

I have had the cover for I don't know how many months and have not installed yet ! It looks pretty cool though, it is just that with the plasma installed on the wall I am not sure how to screw it in... I am sure it is very feasible, I am just lazy. Anyhow, this is to say that depending on the situation it can actually really improve on things. My cables are in good part hidden by the right speaker also on the wall (NHT L5), so not really vital.

Has anyone tried the DVI port yet ?

I did with my Mac and a utility to adjust video resolution, it was fantastic. I want to try though with a DVD player, I heard great things.

Originally posted by johnnycanuck
Hmmm ... Thanks Mojito. But if I follow what you're saying then would not the best route for the time being be to go via component inputs and take advantage of the 12 bit video processing if your feed is 480p from a DVD player? And if the plasma's video processor is bypassed when you feed via the DVI inputs then where is the video processing applied - the source device?
....Is it true that the DVI input cuts this processor out of the chain, or am I misunderstanding things here?
Well, at least this was the situation with last year's VR4 models. This became clear after NEC published 12-bit color in US site and 8-bit color in UK site. People were confused first, but then NEC's tech support cleared things out. Check this thread in UK forum:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1369860&postcount=26
I presume this should be the same for VR5 models, since jump from 8 to 12 bits on the phosphorus reproduction ability seems too optimistic.
The advantage of digital input is to avoid D-A-A-D conversion, that's why the nec's on-board ADC is bypassed.
On the issue of which is a better input it is difficult to comment since it will depned a lot on hardware you have. I was comparing the outputs on Pioneer 868i DVD player (DV59) which has 14-bit/216MHz video DAC and it produces great picture from both, the analogue and digital outputs. Your player may not be as good as 868 on component therefore you may actually benefit from going digital. You can't really tell without trying.

I am a recent convert to the NEC camp. Just too many negatives concerning Panasonic. I have a TV nook that is about 65 inches off ground and 42 inches wide. I talked to Plasma Concepts and they recommend a tilt mount for the following reasons...
1. Cleaner, More ventilation.
2. At elevated height may want to tilt it.

2 questions: (on VR5)

1. When I watch a 16:9 dvd, the only way I can get it to fill the screen is to use the zoom mode. It looks fine, not distorted, (and no part of the picture is chopped off) but my dvd on screen comands appear just off the top of the screen. On my old crt, they appear in the black bar on top. So I'm wondering if zoom mode is how others watch 16:9 dvd's (also listed as 1.78:1 on some dvd cases) and if they have the same issue with the dvd menu. The manual also makes it seem as if this is the correct mode for widescreen movies. I really am wondering if I need to change a setting on my dvd player to somehow output widescreen instead of 4:3, so I won't have this problem.

2. Can you use a component/vga cable on this panel's rgb/vga input? I know you can on the panny but not sure about the VR5.

Thanks.

Sievers,

I have a VR5 as well. First you must set your DVD player to Progressive scan and widescreen. I think that will resolve all your problems. My VR5 defaults to anamorphic when it receives a 480p signal from my DVD which fills the screen perfectly (for 1.85 DVDs) with no distortion. 2.35 DVDs are another matter: You can use your NECs "zoom" aspect" or; better yet it has a "2.35" aspect that IMHO looks better. I prefer just watching the 2.35s "au natural"

Good luck and good viewing on that VR5.

Thanks. I may be stuck since my dvd player is interlaced only. It's ok tho, my main concern with this is being able to fill the screen on regular 16:9 movies, and I can, so no worries there.

Here's another one: Right now the way my VR5 is installed, I can't access the buttons on the bottom edge. Which is fine for me, but I am wondering if it is ok to use standby mode in place of turning it all the way off, all the time. As in, if I'm not watching it, it would be in standby mode, never off.

When my VR5 is not in use it's always in "standby mode". That is the only way to turn the panel "off" (so to speak) with out the "long trip" to the panel. :) when not in use. It uses less than 1 watt of power in standby mode and works just fine for me. My Harmony remote is programmed to the panel device either "off" or "standby".

Jack

Question for the owners:
Seems that most of you own the VR5....other than the silver bezel and the different remote is there anything else to justify the $500 MSRP difference between the VM5?

Warranty

VR5 3 Years Parts & Labor/1 year plasma module

VM5 1 Year Parts & Labor Standard

Hi all,

In the UK specs, the VR5 and VM5 also have a different filter on them. One has an anti-glare filter and the other has an anti-reflective one. Also, I think the VM5 has a ccf filter? Not sure if this is the same on the US models.

On another note, I've noticed that the VR5 is becoming quite cheap in the US and with the relatively high £-$ rate I was wondering if anyone knew of a US dealer that would ship the VR5 to the UK and would you guys think this is a good/bad idea?

Thanks,

Steve

Originally posted by Irwinroad
Warranty

VR5 3 Years Parts & Labor/1 year plasma module

VM5 1 Year Parts & Labor Standard Ahh..I see, so basically on the VR5 an extended warranty wouldn't be neccesary.

Originally posted by johnnycanuck
Contrast - 24 (midpoint is 32 in all of the following to Tint)
Brightness - 37

johnnycanuck [/B]

Johnnycanuck,

Do you have the contrast and brightness settings reversed ? I calibrated mine using Avia, and brightness had a setting fo 24 using that method, I'm suprised that its off by that much using the streaming rat

thanks

Also FWIW,

Although the *MSRP* is $500 more, the actual price I *paid* for the VR5 was $200 more than the VM5 and silver was a WAF for me

But only 1 year on the plasma module itself. I wonder if
extended warranties cover the plasma module?

Originally posted by Irwinroad
But only 1 year on the plasma module itself. I wonder if
extended warranties cover the plasma module? Supposedly they cover everything including complete replacement.

I would be cautious about placing a plasma into an enclosure where airflow to the back is significantly restricted. For example if it was in an enclosure where it had only minimum clearance on the bottom, pretty tight on the sides, and a few inches on the top, but the back of the enclosure was sealed. That is very poor airflow.

These units without fans depend upon natural convection to cool. Heated air will rise out of the back, pulling in cooler air through the bottom. In a largely sealed enclosure, the heated air will recirculate. Thus the air entering the unit will be warmer than what the unit was designed to handle. When the "cooling" air is warmer, then the unit cannot cool to proper operating temps within it. It might work for a while under these conditions, but the lifespan of the components will shorten. A plasma operating under these conditions will not have the long-term reliability of one that is cooled properly.

To check you could place a temperature guage centered directly behind and close to the monitor. Run your set for 3 or 4 hours and then check it. 85 degrees would be okay but not the best, 90 or above is a real cause for concern. Most plasmas are rated to operate in temps up to 104, but subjecting it to 90+ for hours every day is going to affect the life of the unit. Plasmas getting room temp air are going to be more reliable over the long haul.

The same thing applies to hanging a plasma on the wall above a heat source, such as a fireplace.

To rrangar Re: NEC 42VM5 settings Question

You're right to pick up on it. No, I don't have the 2 (contrast and brightness) reversed - at least according to what I have done/seen. It struck me as odd too though. Its a combination of the DVE disc settings, where I had to have the brightness that high in order to be able to see the darker pluge bar (which they say you should be able to see even dimly, which I can) plus a lot of eyeballing.

What I can say is that I have watched numerous DVD's on that setting - most recently Festival Express and I Robot - and it looks very natural. I Robot in particular gave me all kinds of depth etc - picture was amazing. The caveat in all of this is that I watch in a pretty dim room at night and I have the settings as I indicated on the Pioneer DV 37. I think the Pio has a lot to do with it. For instance, I have the black levels on it set pretty low. If they were in the centre (mid) position the need for the brightness on the NEC would probably be less. I've done the same with the white levels on the Pio. The low contrast has the effect of smoothing things out and helping the picture look natural, real and un-etched.

I also believe that this setting has prevented all but the most difficult false contours. In truth I very, very rarely see them. In I Robot I saw not a single one. And I certainly have depth and detail in black images (ie. Will Smith's leather jacket in I Robot). The movie actually represents a pretty good test of contrasts between white/light and black/dark images IMO.

Basically, I used the DVE and its programs to get me to a starting point, then used a number of tests with various DVD's, then back to DVE, then DVD until I had something where the colours, contrasts, etc. looked natural "given the associated equipment I'm using". I used reality (the view out the window, a real person's flesh) as my reference so to speak. I do think the player, the component cable and the fact that I'm not using the DVI input all played a role in the settings. That's also why I'm so interested in the feedback of someone who's using the DVI connection.

Your query is exactly what I was hoping this thread would lead to - discussion of what works best with the NEC. What are your settings? And does anyone, other than Mojito (Pio DV 59 - he's already added his .02 - thanks BTW) have any anecdotal info to share re: DVD players with DVI or HDMI outputs that provide a particularly good picture with the NEC ED's?

Thanks rrangar.

johnnycanuck.

PS. I was going to also post my settings with a cable TV feed but its been an interesting challenge. The variability in colour, sharpness, clarity, noise, black levels, etc. from one channel to the next is astounding - and perplexing. I'm still trying to find an acceptable balance that works for most. I reckon its a bit of a lost cause but will post the settings for info when I'm done.

Buzz?

I'm close to purchasing a 42vr5/vm5 sight unseen/unheard thanks to you "early adopters", but am concerned about reports of audible buzz. The two reports may involve "extenuating circumstances" in that one was at high altitude, and one was using 220v/50hz. I realize that all plasmas buzz to some degree, but do other owners of these units notice any buzz in a quiet room (plasma on, volume muted), closeup at a distance of say 2 feet, and also at a viewing distance of say 10 feet? It would be useful to note any special circumstances, such as high altitude.

Thanks,
Dave

Originally posted by davebe
Buzz?

I realize that all plasmas buzz to some degree, but do other owners of these units notice any buzz in a quiet room (plasma on, volume muted), closeup at a distance of say 2 feet, and also at a viewing distance of say 10 feet? It would be useful to note any special circumstances, such as high altitude.

Thanks,
Dave

Dave, here's what I hear from my NEC....nothing! No buzz. In fact, the fan on my digital cable box produces more audible noise than any other gear I have.

J.

Originally posted by johnnycanuck
To rrangar Re: NEC 42VM5 settings Question


That's also why I'm so interested in the feedback of someone who's using the DVI connection.

I plan to do a DVI connection from my digital cable box to the NEC, and will report results here. I don't have DVI-out on my Cambridge Audio DVD player, but component-out into the NEC provides a wonderful PQ. So does Hi-def out of the cable box via component video. Not exactly a detailed analysis! Some days I need to remind myself that the gear is just the means to the end...not the end itself.

Johnny thanks for your terrific posts, including your settings tweaks. I've been playing with them, with good results.

J.

Originally posted by johnnycanuck
To rrangar Re: NEC 42VM5 settings Question

I also believe that this setting has prevented all but the most difficult false contours. In truth I very, very rarely see them.

Is this true for the s-video input also? It seems that I remember reading a post from someone who said they noticed false contouring on s-video but not the component inputs. I'm just curious what the s-video performance is like on this plasma.

BTW I was of the understanding that you should NOT be able to see the blacker than black pluge bar. I also have DVE and I thought they said you should turn up the brightness until it appears and then turn it down until it just disappears. Don't know how much difference this would make but I thought I'd mention it.

My VM5 arrived today and I'm still figuring things out. Please excuse my newbie question -- but I am trying to figure out how to set it up with my DVD player. I bought a progressive scan DVD player (a Sony 775) and have it set to 16:9, but NORMAL mode on the tv still looks 4:3. It looks fine if I go to FULL or STADIUM mode, but I shouldn't have to do that right? I tested with the widescreen Nemo disk and Alias Season 2 (1.78:1). Shouldn't NORMAL be full screen? Doesn't it kind of keep the aspect ratio of the source? If so, am I messed up on the TV or the DVD player. I don't see many other option on the DVD player.

I can't tell if the aspect ratio looks weirder in NORMAL or STADIUM after looking at it for awhile.

Thanks for any advice. I haven't gotten to adjusting the picture yet so I can't offer an opinion on that for those of you still looking. I have a slight hum (at sea level) but it is gone if you are 2-3 feet away with no other audio and not above / behind the set.

Jason

Today I took some time and did more comparisons of DVI vs component inputs on VR5. Again DV-59 was used as a source. This time I was playing AVIA test patterns. I must admit that I changed my mind. Digital connection is better in all respects. Not only it is sharper and more detailed, it also handles half-tones much better than analogue. This was very apparent on gray gradient patterns. I could see more banding and artifacts on component. Digital feed showed smooth gradients with very little or no banding. So digital is definitely the best input on VR5.
One thing I noticed is that on gray bars pattern the bar which is right before the black bar has slight purple tinge. Also, on gradient pattern there were some yellowy bands (very subtle). Could anyone advise on how to get rid of this? I tried adjusting magenta - blue and magenta - yellow settings but they didn't have any effect.

Found the menu to switch my dvd player from 4:3 mode to 16:9 mode (didn't even know this menu existed before!) so now the aspect ratios when watching dvd's are making more sense. Thanks all.

While I'm in here, I can vouch for the burn-in resistance of the VR5. Being an idiot, I fell asleep watching movies late last Saturday night, without setting the sleep timer. When I woke up I feared the worst. The menu of the dvd had been on the screen for about 3 and a half hours! This is on my second day of owning this thing, so very early as far as total hours. I definitely had some image retention happening when I turned it off, tho you still couldn't really see it when watching anything other than a blank screen. However, I ran the inverse for about 10 minutes, and watched another hour or so of tv, and the retention was completely gone.

Also, I tried using a component > vga cable, but it seems this panel does not allow the input to be used like that. It's in the menu and looks at first like you'd be able to change it to do so, but I couldn't. No matter, since there are 2 component inputs anyway, I have no need for this cable, it's going back. Next is to try the DVI from my 6412 hd/dvr.

Tom_B,
You wouldn't happen to be a big LOTR fan would you??
(sarcasm)

How are you guys mounting this 42" TV? I would like to set it up table top, but it does not come w/ a stand. The OEM stand retails for a lot of money. What other options do I have? I am ready to pull the trigger on this bad boy, but the stand issue is my only hold up. Please advise.

Regards,

Joe Kotran

I just put in an order for a VR5 but I'm using the NEC table top stand. Yes, it's a lot of money but that's my only real choice for my situation.

jkotran, I still have my NEC stand, I would be happy to get rid of it at a fair price, let me know if you are interested.

Originally posted by sievers
Found the menu to switch my dvd player from 4:3 mode to 16:9 mode (didn't even know this menu existed before!) so now the aspect ratios when watching dvd's are making more sense. Thanks all.



So now does Normal show 16:9 1.85:1 ratio movies in full screen, mine does not, I have to switch to the full mode to fill the screen, the image looks correct.

I did set my DVD player to wide, I was wondering if my DVD player is bust

thanks

No, normal shows it in 4:3 with bars on the sides. Anamorphic fills the screen with no loss of picture. Stadium fills the screen but cuts off a little on the top and bottom. Zoom cuts off more of the top and bottom. 2.35:1 cuts off on all sides. So it seems anamorphic is best for 16:9 movies.

As far as I can tell.

This is based on looking at stills of Finding Nemo, not sure if that is anamorphic or not but it seems to work best. I used to think anamorphic was the same as 2.35:1, but now I've read it has to do with squeezing the picture horizontally, with the intention of it being expanded when played back.

Maybe if it's not an anamorphic dvd then it should look normal in 'normal'? I don't know yet, but I'll try it out. If anyone else has more info on this please chime in.

Thanks for the info. I know there used to be a big sticky thread about this a long time ago but it never really registers until you have equipment and it's not working like you thought it should.

I was under the impression that FULL=BAD and I guess that isn't always the case.

I just put empire strikes back back in, to check the different aspect modes on a 2.35:1 movie. It seems like anamorphic is best for this type of movie too. It shows the full picture with bars on the top and bottom. Stadium shows the whole picture with smaller bars, but it's streched slightly, vertically. Zoom fills the screen but is stretched too much (is this only in the case of an anamorphic dvd? since the manual says zoom does not distort) and you lose more picture. 2.35:1 is zoomed but not distorted, it fills the screen but you lose a fair amount on either side.

So, for my tastes, it seems these are best:
DVD, HD: anamorphic in almost all cases.
SD: normal*, or stadium to fill the screen.

Zoom and 2.35:1 cut off too much screen for me. 14:9, not sure what that is for.


*edited to say normal instead of 16:9, brain fart

Originally posted by sievers
I just put empire strikes back back in, to check the different aspect modes on a 2.35:1 movie.
*edited to say normal instead of 16:9, brain fart

Agree, I have the 42M5 and it calls the anamorphic 2:35:1 mode for the 42VM5 users.

Here's what I use, I am mostly in love with the auto picture adjust for 4:3 mode below

16:9 1:85:1 aspect ratio source

Use the Full mode, images keep the aspect ratios and full screen is used


16:9 2:35:1 aspect ratio source

I use the 2.35:1 mode , images keep their aspect ratios and full screen is used. there is minor clipping however I prefer it because the full screen is used

4:3 source showing a 16:9 material

If the 4:3 material is actually 16:9, click on the auto picture adjust, the NEC will switch to zoom mode and zoom out the black bars, this is awesome because not only is the full screen used, there are no black bars *AND* the images keep their aspect ratio. There are minor glitchtes, if its already zoomed then it spits about a "DOES NOT FUNCTION" message, you have to manually switch to zoom and zoom out and then retry,

Logos are another PITA, if the logo happens to creep into the black bars then it will zoom in up to the logo start. However UPN (star trek enterpise) and SciFi (battlestar galatica) have the logos in the right place and 16:9 so its awesome for these two

4:3 source with 4:3 material

Use stadium, got use to streching, images lose aspect ratio off center but full screen is used.

Hope this helps

Originally posted by rrangar If the 4:3 material is actually 16:9, click on the auto picture adjust[/B]
Where is that? I don't think I have this "auto" mode on my VR5. Is this just another name for zoom mode or is it something else?

Originally posted by Mojito
Where is that? I don't thing I have this "auto" mode on my VR5. Is this just another name for zoom mode or is it something else?

I have the 42VM5, and the remote button says "Auto Adjust", its at the bottom. I am not sure what the VR5 calls it if its present.

I have the 42VM5, and the remote button says "Auto Adjust", its at the bottom. I am not sure what the VR5 calls it if its present.
This is interesting. Does anybody know where I can see a picture of VM5 remote. I think this feature is very useful and either I don't know how it is activated on VR5 or it is not avalable there at all.

Picture of VM5 remote on page 11 of this PDF:

http://www.necvisualsystems.com/corpus/S/1/operation_42vm5vp5.pdf

No, VR5 doesn't have this or similar button on the remote. And I'm not sure if it has this functionality. Could someone please explain what this means:
...or to switch the screen size to ZOOM mode automatically with the superimposed caption displayed fully...
Does that mean that if I use captions and the auto adjust cuts the top and bottom black bars, then it somehow moves the captions to the visible area of the screen?

what is the possibility of us gettig a powerbuy going?

Originally posted by GePapa
what is the possibility of us gettig a powerbuy going? Count me in if that happens soon.:cool:

edit- this probably needs it's own thread since most of the posters in this one are already owners.

Originally posted by Mojito
No, VR5 doesn't have this or similar button on the remote. And I'm not sure if it has this functionality. Could someone please explain what this means:

Does that mean that if I use captions and the auto adjust cuts the top and bottom black bars, then it somehow moves the captions to the visible area of the screen?

I am not sure about captions, I can do a quick test when I'm home, but if I had to guess, if you use the NEC's inbuilt cc decoder then it should move it.

Originally posted by Mojito
No, VR5 doesn't have this or similar button on the remote. And I'm not sure if it has this functionality. Could someone please explain what this means:

Does that mean that if I use captions and the auto adjust cuts the top and bottom black bars, then it somehow moves the captions to the visible area of the screen?

Also since the VR5 and VM5 are so similar, I'd try getting hold of a VM5 remote or the IR code for the "auto adjust" and sending it to the VR5, it might just work (just as the discrete codes for various inputs might work on the VM5)

Attached is a text file of the differences I was able to document between the 42VR5 and 42VM5/VP5, which should provide a more detailed comparison of these displays. This information was obtained by a review of the two quite different owners manuals, as well as the brochures and comments on this forum. Please feel free to add information or comment on anything that you think needs clarification.

hi

how do you save settings separately, i.e. i wanna save a PAL DVE calibrated settings and an NTSC one separately so that i can just toggle between them when the need arises

thanks

kimera,

You have six picture memory settings. Do your NTSC calibration on Memory Setting #3 (as an example). Go the the 2nd page of the picture-setting menu and enter a name for that setting...for example "NTSC" and enter "Set".

Go to the next Memory Setting #4 (just as an example). Again, perfrom your calibration and then go to page 2 of the menu and enter a name for that setting..."PAL" and enter "Set".

You should then be able to toggle from one to the other,

I read Tmac's file on the differences between the VR and the VM but still can't figure out if one is necessarily better than the other. If the VR has extra warranty, would that not make it the one to get considering that it's the same price? Color options aside of course.

Goosey:

Accepting that the display, video processor, inputs and guts are essentially the same, the difference is one of functionality (colour aside) and warranty. In a nutshell, the VM is better if you wish to use the PDP for commercial applications as it offers the ability to use it in multi-screen format etc. The VR is more convenient for home use since it offers speedy access to the type of multi-input and adjustment functionality from the remote that you will want. That's about it. Both will provide the same great picture.

re: Bezel colour, I can verify that the silver bezel of the VR is not a distraction for viewing, which I thought it was perhaps going to be. Viewed in a dim room it essentially disappears. Even in daylight it simply looks like a classy and elegant frame for the picture, partly becuase its so narrow. In fact, it looks almost identical to the frames around some of the modern prints I have in the tv room.

Hope that helps.

Tmac: Thanks - great comparison.

I was going to post my settings for TV, having finally got them to where I feel comfortable with them. But 2 sudden business trips intervened, then last Friday overnight in some wild weather my TV room sprang a leak. Fortunately my plasma was untouched but the leak issue is still to be resolved.

I'll post settings asap this week.

johnnycanuck

Originally posted by rrangar
Also since the VR5 and VM5 are so similar, I'd try getting hold of a VM5 remote or the IR code for the "auto adjust" and sending it to the VR5, it might just work (just as the discrete codes for various inputs might work on the VM5)
I just got a harmony 680, and downloaded all the codes for my vr5. The auto adjust command came in automatically, but pressing it results in a big red 'does not function' message. I'm going to try some other things to see if I can get it to work, but it doesn't seem to work at this point.

johnnycanuck/Tmac,

Do either of you know what the differences in the menus are between the two as listed in Tmac's differences file? Would this also apply to UK models?

In the UK both the VR5 & VM5 come with a 2 year warranty.

Thanks,

Steve

I just got the prices of the NEC 42VR5 and 42VM5 from plasma concepts. The VR5 is $100 more than the VM5 right now. Does that sound right?

I think I'm going to go with the VR5. However, do people feel they need to get an additional warranty on top of the one already provided with the VR5(3year p&L/1 year plasma module)? I guess I'll check with my credit card company to see what extension they give to warranties (?1 year). What did others do about this?

SteveJR

As pointed out by johnnycanuck, the main differences are ones of functionality. One example would be that Option 3 in the main menu is primarily for use in commercial applications, i.e. video wall and automatic on/off for this application.

I would suggest that you go to NECs UK site, download the two manuals and do your own comparison. NEC have done a nice job of providing information on their web sites.

Finally catching up (but the roof is still leaking ...)

I spent time since adjusting for DVD play on the VR5 to try to obtain the best possible picture from TV - in my case using standard def cable as the source. The toughest part, as many of you know, is that cable signals can exhibit a fair amount of PQ variability from channel to channel.

Having said that, and with the help of Rich Harkness' excellent "Polishing Turd" techniques (that guy, like a few other contributors to this site, should get a medal for all the work he has put in to try to help all of us "People of Plasma") I have tweaked my VR5 to the point where it provides average to good PQ on all the channels I receive.

Following are my settings for cable TV:

Contrast - 45 (midpoint is 32 in all of the following to Tint)
Brightness - 32
Sharpness - 5
Colour - 32
Tint - 32
NR - Off
Colour Temp - Middle - with no adjustments to the stock individual colour settings
Gamma - 2.2
Low Tone - Auto
Set-Up Level - 3.75%
Colour Tune (not adjusted - all stock)
Cinema Mode - Off
Picture Mode - Theatre 1

With these settings (Shaw Cable is my provider for you Canucks) I get natural colours and especially flesh tones most of the time. When I have to tweak the look of the picture for a particular channel/program I have found that usually adjusting the Colour Temp or the Picture Mode setting will provide a quick fix that I can live with.

I encourage any of you who wish to post alternative settings we can all try for standard def or hi-def satellite, cable or OTA feeds, as well as settings for DVD playback, to throw them into the mix.

BTW, has anyone hooked up a VR/VM 5 to one of the less expensive DVI/HDMI equipped DVD players via the DVI input? (Other than Mojito that is, who posted his findings earlier). I'm interested if anyone is using a Panasonic S97S or a Denon 2910 or similar cost DVD player. Thanks.

johnnycanuck

I have a Panasonic S97 hooked upto a VR5 via the HDMI->DVI cable that came with the panel. Looks good so far - my previous experience was with a Pioneer 868 and the S97 at 720p provides a similar picture to my eyes. However, the S97 does suffer from macroblocking (but not as badly as some would have you believe) due to the well-publicised FLI-2310 chipset problem that afflicts similiarly-equipped players (like the Denons) but there apparently is a firmware fix from Panasonic just arriving now that will help address that. Once I've finished running the panel in, I will start tweaking both it and the player - the picture can only get better. I think for the price, the S97 stands up well against its competition. It's a nice little player and appears to suit the VR5 nicely. Hope that helps...

I've got a question for you guys. I just noticed that the NEC has only one set of S-Video inputs and is relatively limited in the number of consumer inputs. Is this a problem for anybody at all?

Hi all

Thought I'd follow JohnnyC's post with my own settings. I'd also like to reiterate his point about the high degree of variability from channel to channel. My cable provider is Rogers.

Settings for digital SD cable (STB is SA 8300HD, feed to VR5 is 480i via S-Video):

Contrast - 40
Brightness - 28
Sharpness - 8
Colour - 26
Tint - 32
NR - Off (or 1)
Colour Temp - Middle
Gamma - 2.2
Low Tone - Auto
Set-Up Level - 3.75%
Colour Tune - default for all
Cinema Mode - Off
Picture Mode - Normal

Settings for HD cable (STB is SA 8300HD, feed to VR5 is 1080i via Component):

Contrast - 40 to 52 (highly variable, even on same channel)
Brightness - 24 to 32
Sharpness - 0
Colour - 18 to 22
Tint - 32
NR - Off
Colour Temp - Middle
Gamma - 2.2
Low Tone - Auto
Set-Up Level - 0%
Colour Tune - default for all
Cinema Mode - On
Picture Mode - Normal

I've yet to try the HDMI output on the SA8300HD. Perhaps this weekend.

Originally posted by Goosey
I've got a question for you guys. I just noticed that the NEC has only one set of S-Video inputs and is relatively limited in the number of consumer inputs. Is this a problem for anybody at all?
If you have a decent A/V receiver, this should not be a problem as it should do input swtching for you. If not and you have several S-Video devices to connect, then you should get some sort of input switcher or plug in and out every time.

Originally posted by Mishu2000
kimera,

You have six picture memory settings. Do your NTSC calibration on Memory Setting #3 (as an example). Go the the 2nd page of the picture-setting menu and enter a name for that setting...for example "NTSC" and enter "Set".

Go to the next Memory Setting #4 (just as an example). Again, perfrom your calibration and then go to page 2 of the menu and enter a name for that setting..."PAL" and enter "Set".

You should then be able to toggle from one to the other,

thanks a lot :)

This is how my 42VR5 arrived yesterday from Toronto, Ontario to Vancouver, British Columbia in Canada.

Impressed that the NEC is strapped to its own pallet. I assume all is ok?

J.

The package - PDP and tabletop stand - arrived strapped to a 24" X 48" pallet covered in black poly wrap with "fragile/glass", "this end up" and "do not stack" stickers on all sides. There was a 1/4" x 24" x48" plywood cover against each long face of the PDP and foil cored cardboard angles attached to the top. The only shiipping damage was some splinters on the corner of the pallet.

Wow........all I got was the same cardboard box.....no plywood
and no pallet underneath. Carboard box looks exactly the same
with VM5 on it.

Mine was shipped from Vancouver to Toronto this way.

CONGRATULATIONS TMAC!

When you have it installed and tweaked post your settings so we can compare. Thanks.

johnnycanuck

I just a got a plain cardboard box with my Vm5 :)

The cardboard itself was in perfect condition though

Can't expect much for $13 shipping hehehe

Can't wait to start playing with it tommorrow on my day off. Bought my mount but the damn thing is gonna take a week to get it. Sucks when you buy something on a canadian website expecting in two to 3 days and they tell you it's gonna take a week or more because it's coming from the states.

I'd recommend avoiding avdeals.ca I ordered the Sanus low profile wall mount from them. I emailed avdeals.ca orders and sales email addresses as per their websites recommendations for inquiries on three separate occasions (basically once per day since sunday) and no response to this day to *any* of my emails. Their business hours start late and end early so I had to set aside my lunch break at work to call em up and check on what was holding up delivery. Poor customer service IMO for a web based company. Secondly they say the item is in stock but they don't tell you it's from their US subsiduary....argh.

So until further notice my nice new plasma will be leaning against the sofa in my den awaiting delivery of the mounting kit :p

Guys,

I just received a 42VM5. My SD TV source is Dish Network connected via a S-Video cable. On many channels I am experiencing pervasive false contouring. It is on most people's faces. Do you have any suggestions to improve this? Are you experiencing this?

Regards,

Joe Kotran

jkotran

I also have the VM5 with a dishnet 6000. Although I am not sure
what false contouring is I do have issues with SD PQ. Some channels
are better than others. It seems better hooked up through the
s-video opposed to the componet out. To my eyes it looks like
kind of a blur. I thought maybe it was my 6000 so I borrowed
another on and found the same issues. The interesting thing is
it is not that evident when I hook it up to my 30hs420 crt.

I have a 6100 expressvu as well and the SD quality is night and
day between the 2 services so that indicates there is nothing
wrong with my display. I basically took johnnycanucks settings
as a starting point and tweaked from there with the DVE dvd.

My next test is to borrow a 6000 Exvu to compare it against
the 6100 but I have not read anywhere where anybody is
complaining about the PQ between the two.

I attribute the problem to dish's compression ratio and bandwith
limitations. Any other opinions are certainly welcome. It seems
to be more evident with plasma or at least the NEC VM5 since
both of us have issues.

FWIW

I have a VR5 on DirectTivo through S-video and I can truly say *most* (GIGO, of course) of the SD on my NEC is very, very good, with some actually approching or equalling DVD quality (mostly the premium channels). As good if not better than my CRT! May be Dish's compression and bandwidth issues but I think D* has identical issues as well.

Jack

I have read alot of posts where the DTV Tivo seems to give alot
better PQ quality on SD channels.

Alot of the posts had the same complaint with dish and the reponses
were "My Direct TV Tivo looks great" which I do not doubt.

Maybe it is time to dump charlie for dave!!

I recently acquired the VM5 and am really happy with it. Thanks to Johnnycanuck and others for this fine thread. I'm still tweaking but will soon post my settings for comparison. I envy those who elected the VR5 instead as I can now appreciate how that 6-memory picture adjustment
feature would certainly come in handy.

Rory, I'm in the market for a decent player and have been following the S97 threads with interest. Would really appreciate hearing further about your experiences with this player married to the VR5. I've also put the combo DVD/VCR Tosh unit SD-V592 on my short list.

The Pana S97 player works well with my VR5, especially with the new (036) firmware, which does cure some of the issues I was having with the player. The various S97 threads have all that info on them.

I'm still running my VR5 in but I've decided to not let the player upscale for now although to my eyes, you appear to get a perceived increase in detail (as you'd expect) when running at 720p or 1080i.

I'd recommend the S97 - for the price (at least in the UK) there's not a lot that can touch it, performance-wise.

Originally posted by Mishu2000
kimera,

You have six picture memory settings. Do your NTSC calibration on Memory Setting #3 (as an example). Go the the 2nd page of the picture-setting menu and enter a name for that setting...for example "NTSC" and enter "Set".

Go to the next Memory Setting #4 (just as an example). Again, perfrom your calibration and then go to page 2 of the menu and enter a name for that setting..."PAL" and enter "Set".

You should then be able to toggle from one to the other,

btw, ive got a VM5 and i suppose this procedure is only available to VR5 owners? is there a way that i can do this on a VM5? i tried looking for it in the menu but i couldnt find it

thanks

Originally posted by kimera
btw, ive got a VM5 and i suppose this procedure is only available to VR5 owners? is there a way that i can do this on a VM5? i tried looking for it in the menu but i couldnt find it

I too am interested to learn if any VM/VP owners have investigated this... anyone talk to NEC or possibly see it in a service menu? Speaking of menus, is there a thread somewhere that covers service menus for these NECs?

Johnny thank you for your excellent thread. I have lived with my VM5 for 8 days and would like to offer the following observations.The VM5 is dramatically better on dvi input and at 720p even with a cheaply built samsung 913 and a decent dvi cable. I am currently researching a dvd upscaling dvi output player as are others but I think it the only way to go. While component video is decent, dvi/720 is so much better that I can not go back.

Originally posted by dcavner
Speaking of menus, is there a thread somewhere that covers service menus for these NECs?
The only setting in the service menu I played with was the vertical frequency. By default it is set to 60Hz, which is fine for 60Hz sources. Since all other sources (PAL) are converted to 60Hz, you can notice slight stutter on pans or news bars. The service menu allows to switch from forced FRC to 60Hz to "Auto". That makes pans smooth and fine, but adds horrible motion blur artifacts (green and red lines on flesh tones). I preferred leaving everything at 60Hz.

I have a quick question. Since most of you are NEC ED owners, I have a question over black levels. I know from my reading that NEC's black levels are not as great as others, namely Panasonic. However, it seems in most other regards that the NEC is as good or better than most others.

I am SO close to pulling the trigger on a new 42VR5, my only hesitation being the not-so-good black levels. Since most of you own this display, let me ask: are you ever really bothered by the black levels? Do you ever really regret buying your NEC because the black levels are not so deep? How often and in what kinds of movies is this really apparent? I mean, in a very dark scene, is it so bad that you just cannot get over it?

I know this has been asked a lot, and I know that any answer is going to be subjective. I truly wish I could see one to decide for myself, but I cannot. So, I need your opinions. Are the black levels bothersome, or is it really only apparent when compared side by side with a 7UY?

Also, have any of you tried bias/back lighting to help with perceived black levels? This is one thing I plan on doing.

MCanfield
IMHO the black levels on NEC PDPs are not an issue at all. I have not yet had an opportunity to dial in our 42VR5 as my copy of DVE just arrived in todays mail, but in the 10 days spent with this display we have been very pleasantly surprised with its performance. All I have done to date is lower the contrast, brightness and colour to suit our lighting conditions. The blacks are quite solid and we never feel that the picture is lacking in any way - this observation is based on this display replacing an extremely good CRT direct view television. Having spent a good amount of time on the Panasonic/NEC debate, and evaluating both displays under various conditions, I have absolutely no regrets in selecting the NEC.

In reading posts on this and other forums, I have concluded that bias lighting appears to have rather mixed benefits. In the time spent to date with the VR5, I have not seen any need for bias lighting to enhance the black level with this display.

My suggestion is to try and find the specific displays you are interested in purchasing and take the time to critically evaluate them with as wide a range of viewing options as is available. You are the only one able to make the decision regarding whether or not you can live with a particular product. Good luck.

For our lighting conditions, the VR5 does NOT leave me wanting more black. I haven't adjusted anything other than dialing down the contrast and brightness for the break-in period.

For movie watching, we turn on two lamps so the room is dim but not dark. It is brighter than bias lighting but the lamps are not directly behind the TV either.

I am VERY pleased with the color reproduction. They are very vivid and seem to leap out of the screen without appearing at all over saturated. Note that I have not calibrated it NOR do I have any sort of trained eye so YMMV.

Just goes to show you what a subjective area of picture performance this represents. I, for one, initially found the black levels barely tolerable in comparison with other panels I've seen and owned, yet this remains only one variable in the equation despite how important it is to me. The NEC by far makes up for it in other areas, in my view, and one has only to review this entire thread to appreciate that its a solid performer with some neat extras on the side (excellent quality stretch modes, great shadow detail, for instance). I don't for a moment regret my VM5 purchase thus far; given the right conditions it can shine and fulfill. Black levels be damned. But NEC really should be doing better black levels in keeping with the excellent overall performance of this panel.

Funny thing, either I'm becoming more accustomed to the blacks, or they're actually getting better. Something perhaps to do with the running in of a new plasma? The picture really is getting better after a week or so and that's saying something, considering how good it was out of the box.

I might try the bias lighting.

Anyone get theirs ISF calibrated yet?

Oh, and another thing. I don't know if it's been mentioned before but I think the VM5 is particularly suited for PC connectivity. With the range of adjustment between an HTPC and this display, possibilities abound in producing not only excellent images but a larger variety of them. So far I've mostly played DVD's off my hard drive but this has produced some stunning results. Troy looked particularly good tonight through component, with tons of clean visual candy. It's just another cool thing you can do (right) with this display.

Samh:
Thanks for your comments re: DVI. I have been suspecting the same but have not had the $$ to go out and buy one of the more expensive units like the Denon 2910. Besides, the macroblocking issues with almost all brands that use the latest Faroudja chipset have held me back. I was tempted to buy the Panasonic S97 at Xmas as it was available at a 33% discount, but just couldn't bring myself to do it. Thanks for your comments about the S97 RorySolley.


MCanfield:
Let me weigh in with my .02 cents FWIW. I agree with what tmac145, fuzzione and tly have reported. When I was comparing the Panny 7uy against the VR5, using the same DVD program feed and situated right next to one another, if I focused specifically on the blacks I could see that the 7uy was slightly darker - and to put that in context it was the equivalent of one slight shade darker on a pair of paint swatches adjacent to each other on a colour chart. The perceived difference was also dependent on the amount of black in the program feed - if it was a night scene for instance, the difference was more apparent than in a daylight one with some black detail in it.

I was using the XXX scene I referred to in an earlier post, the club scene, where there is significant black, deep shadows and also pretty bright light. The trick to me in this scene is that the display also has to get the flesh tones right in the club atmosphere, plus significant amounts of various greys and shadow detail in the background stone walls. Viewing this scene, the Panny had slightly deeper blacks, the NEC better depth, dimensionality and detail. Bear in mind that this was using 2 uncalibrated displays out of the box.

In my day-day viewing I watch primarily in a very dim room and have never been bothered by the NEC's black levels. Like the others here, I have been thrilled by the "life" in the picture and generally become immersed in the story of the movie. At times I have watched with a low level light on in the room and that has made the perceived black levels "blacker". Re: bias lighting - I haven't felt the need to try it.

I also agree with fuzzione that the quality of the picture seems to improve as the pixels are "broken in" over the first hundred hours or so. Either that, or our eyes/brain adjust to the display and compensate for any missing information as we become more familiar with it. I've often wondered about that with respect to the break-in time required for audio components as well - is it REALLY getting better or are WE merely adjusting in such a way that we listen around (see around in this case) the idiosyncracies of the component in question. Just a philosophical sidebar ...

You're absolutely correct that this is a hugely subjective area and the answers are completely dependent on personal preferences re: how you view, what you view, under what conditions you view and ultimately what matters most to you in the reproduction of a picture. Its very similar to the audio questions that revolve around bass content - how much is enough? And is slightly less weighty but faster and more accurate bass reproduction better than a fuller bottom end that is deeper but lightly slower? It all depends on what's most important to you in the reproduction of music.

So, in that context, and bearing in mind that all plasmas have a ways to go in their reproduction of black levels, the answers to your question are:

Are you ever really bothered by the black levels (on the NEC)?
No, never.

Do you ever really regret buying your NEC because the black levels are not so deep?
No.

How often and in what kinds of movies is this really apparent?
The slight difference is apparent if you really are hunting for it in prolonged dark scenes. But what you give up in ablsoute black you gain in shadow detail and dimensionality- its a trade-off.

I mean, in a very dark scene, is it so bad that you just cannot get over it?
Never.

Are the black levels bothersome, or is it really only apparent when compared side by side with a 7UY?
The difference was only apparent in the side-by-side. But it was not "bothersome" then nor has it been since.

To add a little to tmac145's comment - if you can't find an NEC to view but can view a Panny, then spend some time with it to get a fix on its blacks. Once you feel you're there, find another quality display (JVC, Sony, Pioneer, LG) and spend some time with it. If you find that the blacks of the Panasonic are so compelling as to make it your overwhelming favourite, then you may have deteremined the answer to your question. Fuzzione's comments are bang on though - black levels are only one aspect of the overall reproduction of the picture.

Final thought: We now have a new Pannsonic 37" 7uy in our reception area at my office that was just added a few weeks ago. So I can see a 7uy every day - but with a satellite feed. I have spent a bit of time watching it to compare against the NEC at my home, especially since the 37" is my favourite Panasonic panel.

The Panny is in its stretch mode - and I can tell you the NEC's is much better. But overall, comparing the PQ under these completely variable conditions, I must say that I prefer the NEC for all of the reasons I have articulated in earlier posts. Re: black levels, watching in these 2 very different environments I don't find myself saying at the office "ooh, look at those deep blacks on the Panny", nor do I find myself saying at home "aw geez, I wish I wish I wish I could turn up the blacks".

I hope that helps.

johnnycanuck

johnnycanuck, another balanced, informative post. Thanks!

I have a question re the 42 vs 37. Since you said the 37 is your favourtie Panny, I'm guessing you find the smaller pixels have advantages. I'm not sure what your seating distance is, but at 8', which would you choose? ...and would your answer change if NEC had a 37 that had all the advantages of your VR5 and the smaller pixels?

Thanks... Perry.

Don't know about Johnny, but if there was such a thing, I would jump on a 37" ED NEC in a heartbeat!

my . 01 (worth half as much)

Wow - thanks, guys. The replies to my questions on black levels have helped me a great deal in my decision. I knew before that I was going to go with the NEC 42VR5, but now I can do so with no real fears that I am going to be majorly disappointed when it arrives.

Again, I know that everything is subjective, but I think that your answers got to the heart of what I really needed to know.

Thanks for the info! And, I hope to maybe be able to contribute to this NEC ED resource when I have my own set at home! Just give me a week or two....

perryu/yobob:

Interesting question.

The Panasonic 37" 7UY or 25UP has always displayed a superlative picture in every store I have seen it and every time I evaluated it. You're correct, perryu, its advantage is that it has the same pixel count as the 42" ED but the individual pixels are smaller (memory says 1.08 for the 42" Panny sets and 0.91 for the 37"). I recently saw a 37" 6 UP in a store showing an SD cable feed (Friends). Right next to it was an HD 42" consumer Panasonic. At about 8 ft. the 37" picture was clearer, more coherent (less grain) and therefore more 3D. I didn't try to adjust either set so who knows how much better they might have been able to become. And here in Canada the price diffference was huge between the 2 sets.

I have seen the 37" in a variety of settings, playing SD and HD TV as well as DVD. If you will be watching from a relatively close perspective the 37"'s picture always seemed to approach the sharpness of LCD combined with the depth and contrast of plasma. I think that's due to the combintion of the legendary panasonic blacks as well as the smaller pixel size. It struck me as a very smooth, grain-free picture on DVD feed. In the typical row of plasmas you find in the big box stores, no matter where I was if there was a 37" Panasonic I found my eye drawn inevitably to it.

I see the Panasonic 37" 7UY in our reception area each day now at a distance of about 8' and nothing I have seen has changed my opinion. It really does have a coherent picture. I have not tried to directly compare a 37" Panny vs. the 42" NEC but having said that, there are some things the NEC does better. I still prefer it to the Panasonic for its colour and its dimensionality as well as its ability to capture realistic images and present them in the most natural way I have seen on a 42" ED set. Other points:

- I find the picture stretch modes for TV truly irritating on the Panasonic to my eyes. I can't abide people with fat heads - whereas the NEC algorithm method that leaves the centre of the picture untouched is liveable with. If you plan to watch a lot of TV this may be a consideration;

- The NEC doesn't require extra "blades" etc to get DVI input, although in terms of future-proofing the Panny may have an advantage, assuming Panasonic continues to support it a few years down the road;

- There's a greater level of picture adjustment control capability on the NEC, at least in the user accessible menu. For instance, the extensive ability to adjust white balance etc.

I watch at 9', eyeball to screen. At that distance the picture is great on the 42". If I were sitting at a distance of 8' to 7' I'd seriously consider the 37". I'm too lazy to do the arithmetic but I bet that comparing a 42" picture at 9' with 1.08 pixel pitch vs. a 37" at 7.5' with .091 pixels the perceived size of the pixels would be pretty close to identical, and the size of the display in your field of vision would also match up.

And to answer another part of the question (adding my .01 cents to yobob's so at least together we can produce an opinion that meets the .02 cents worth statistical norm :-) if there was a 37" NEC VR/VM in existence, and if I was watching at that shorter distance I'd definitely consider it. Similarly, if I was sitting 12' away I know I'd have gone to a 50" display.

Truth is, if there was a display with enough resolution - like about double the number of pixles/half their size in the current HD sets - I'd go for a 60" at my 9' distance. Its not that I'm not happy with the 42" NEC, but I love the immersive feeling of a movie theatre's big screen. Hopefully we'll get to that 5 years from now.

The best thing I did when trying to decide on a display was to settle on my exact viewing distance early on in the game and then view every display I was interested in multiple times and under multiple conditions/sources at exactly that distance. That is the only true way to educate your eyes/brain and understand what is most appealing about each set. Perryu, if you do that with the 42" ED sets at your 8' distance you should get a great feel for whether that's too close a viewing position for that size of display.

Good luck.

johnnycanuck

My VR5 is set to arrive tomorrow. I have the mount on the wall (a Peerless articulating arm), The comcast HD PVR hooked up and will tackle the behind the wall wiring today. I was able to preview this set from a fellow forum member that lived 45 miles from me (thanks Mike). The picture was very clean and with minimal artifacting and false contouring. This was viewing DVD's over s-video and SD programing. I can't wait to hook up to HD content via DVI. Thanks to johnnycanuck and others for they're very informative reviews. Wade

johnnycanuck, thanks for your comments. Very lucid and helpful as always.

I've been researching for well over a year, and looking pretty seriously for a couple of months now. One problem I have is finding panels to view. Here in Kelowna I've only managed a couple of times to find ED sets that I can actually step back 8-9 feet from.

Only yesterday, for the first time, did I find an ED (Hitachi 42) and HD (Panny 42 commercial... first one I've seen in person!) set up next to each other, and I spent a few minutes comparing from those distances. The feed was PBS-HD, an older show probably shot on film. I did no setup on the pdps, but the images were remarkably close in colour, brightness, etc.

What I found is exactly what others here have reported: from 9', SDE was gone, the difference in detail was very mininmal when it was visible at all (keeping in mind that it wasn't the very best material). At 7', the SDE on the ED set was there if you looked for it, and I suspect would be mildly distracting for me. For reference, I find the scan lines on my current 27" analogue set occasionally annoying from ~8.5'; I felt about the same level of discomfort from the ED at 7. 8' was just about the crossover distance.

Anyway, johnny, your last paragraph is excellent advice. I'll be moving to Victoria in the next 2-3 months, probably to a condo; once there, with a known viewing distance (and hopefully a job!), I'll start auditioning in earnest. Should be more selection there, and easier access to Vancouver shops too. I suspect if my living room shrinks at all (which is likely), the 37" will be my panel.... if it still exists!

Thanks again... Perry.

I got I just got my vm5 all wall mounted and hooked up.

My cable provider is Rogers and I have the HD pvr.

Question, since both my digital terminal (Scientific atlanta 8300hd) and dvd player use component right now I'd like to use the hdmi connecter on the set top box to go to the dvi connecter on the plasma. These cables are insanely priced at the big box stores. Anyone know any Canadian stores that have a hdmi to dvi cable for a decent price? (ie; well under $100)

Another questions. Not sure how the vr5 is but the vm5 has a power on button (that doesn't power it off) and then a standbye button (that basically turns it off). Anyone have luck setting up a universay remote to power this thing on AND off with one button?

Just some intial impressions. First black levels are not as good as crt for sure but still decent. You forget about it pretty quick. Stadium stretch mode is awesome except that it zooms in slightly Still playing around with all the zoom stretch options as my set top box does certain formats better and the plasma does other stretch modes better. Pretty channel specific stuff. I was watching the grammy awards last night on hd and was blown away buy the sharpness and vividness of it all.

I'll snap some pics later tonight of my almost done install.

hdmi <> dvi cable (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0002CZHN6/qid=1108395072/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_4/103-0113575-8482202?v=glance&s=electronics)

Originally posted by db_racer
...I'd like to use the hdmi connecter on the set top box to go to the dvi connecter on the plasma. These cables are insanely priced at the big box stores. Anyone know any Canadian stores that have a hdmi to dvi cable for a decent price? (ie; well under $100)

Not sure about the VM5, but I received a HDMI to DVI cable included with my VR5. I haven't seen any previous posts about this being a "difference" between the VM and the VR. But if the VM5 doesn't have one included, it seems like another reason for the price differential between the two.

Another questions. Not sure how the vr5 is but the vm5 has a power on button (that doesn't power it off) and then a standbye button (that basically turns it off). Anyone have luck setting up a universay remote to power this thing on AND off with one button?

The only way I can totally "power on and off" is to do it with the on/off button on the panel. I believe the "standby" mode is a toggle switch on both the VM5 and VR5 remotes and I just leave mine in standby when not in use. It uses .9 watts of power and my Harmony remote handled "standby" as the "on/off" very well.

....Stadium stretch mode is awesome ...

Gotta love it :) It's one of the many reasons that sold me on the NEC. Good luck and good viewing.

db_racer

I'm using Harmony universal remote and power on/off NEC is not a problem.
My NEC was recognised by Harmony during setup and now it's one click to power on/off.

Originally posted by luk350
db_racer

I'm using Harmony universal remote and power on/off NEC is not a problem.
My NEC was recognised by Harmony during setup and now it's one click to power on/off.

You mean it actually works by pressing the same button? I use HTM MX 500 which has two main buttons - power and system off - so I set it up to turn on all my equipment with power and turn it off with system off.

Yes, if you press power button on remote in shut off NEC and all componenets that included in activity that you where using last.
Thats how all Harmony remotes works:
You provide all information about your components setup - model, how it suppouse to work(input, settings, what to do upon powering on, etc) and divide them into activities: watch DVD, VCR, DVR TV etc.
Just sececting activity powering on only components involving in this process, switching to another activity powering off unsed and powering on new. And just one button power all of.

Originally posted by luk350
Yes, if you press power button on remote in shut off NEC and all componenets that included in activity that you where using last.
Thats how all Harmony remotes works:
You provide all information about your components setup - model, how it suppouse to work(input, settings, what to do upon powering on, etc) and divide them into activities: watch DVD, VCR, DVR TV etc.
Just sececting activity powering on only components involving in this process, switching to another activity powering off unsed and powering on new. And just one button power all of.

Interesting, it means that Harmony knows to use different signal for "on" and different for "off" while keeping all other signals in the macro (i.e. for other components) the same. Or, there actually is a discrete signal for NEC that works for both: on and off functions. Would you know which one is true?

Actually, that's kinda the way it works. There are programmable activity buttons on the Harmony (up to 5 depending on the model).

Each Activity button is programmable, and there's a way to program more than one function into the "star" button. But there's only one OFF button, and no matter what you have on, that will turn it off. Even switching from one activity to another will turn off those components no longer needed for the new activity (eg, VCR to DVD).

But I ran into something interesting last night. Wife apparently turned the TV off manually. When I fired up the Harmony, everything connected with that activity turned on except the TV. When I hit the OFF button, the stuff for that activity went off, and the TV came on. Cure was to manually turn the TV off again, and everything came back into synch.

Just FWIW.

Yobob, this is understandable behavior for using macro. This happens when the code for on/off is the same. What luk350 made me also believe is that his NEC could be controlled with one press of the SAME button on remote for both turning it on and off. Mine can't be, either due to the remote issue or lack of discrete code. It would make my life easier if it I can find a way to do it. Does your original NEC remote have one power button or does it have separate buttons for on and off?

Question about SD PQ:

I've been seriously considering the 42" NEC but my primary concern is PQ with standard digital cable. I'm on Rogers cable out of Toronto and am wondering if there are any owners in the Toronto area that can comment on the PQ they are getting out of the NEC while viewing Rogers standard digital cable.

I've also been thinking to defer the purchase until next fall, with the hope that prices will drop between now and then. Are there any educated guesses out there as to when and by how much prices will drop throughout '05?

Thanks,
Dave

Dave, I have Rogers High Def through an SA 3250HD STB. I find standard TV tolerable on the poor stations (few) and excellent on the better ones (most). My VM5 does standard digital cable well above my expectations overall and much better than other units I have seen. If you're watching over 8' away then you shouldn't have a problem. I know I don't, despite being quite fussy over such things.

I own the Harmony 659 (check factorydirect.ca for decent pricing) and it is a perfect marriage with the VM5, my STB, DVD and surround receiver. You have to spend some time programming everything correctly but the result is magnificent. The Harmony is a very clever remote and now that I know what it can do, life without one would'nt be the same. Highly recommended.

I have EVERYTHING set up through the 'activity' modes and never have to go to specific device modes any longer to perform a function. Takes a little while to master however. Go to Harmony's site for more info. It's amazing what this thing can do for the money!

The VM5 has separate buttons for power on/off on the stock remote. With the Harmony this is not an issue.

I'm STILL messing around with settings and the NEC keeps improving. Not yet satisfied however and will keep at it before I post 'my' perfect setup.

I am absolutely in love with this display. My friends don't see me any more as I now watch too much TV :o)

Just to clarify, fuzzione: there are discrete ON and OFF codes for the NEC? I would think the problem yobob found with the TV being out of synch with the rest of the components would only happen with a 'toggle ON/OFF' code, not discrete codes. Maybe it supports both code sets... I think many tvs do.

And are there discrete codes to select the input too?

Thanks... Perry.

Hi. First of all, let me compliment you all on an excellent thread. I have been researching plasmas and had not really considered NEC until today (no particular reason). I've been through all the Panny, Pio and LG threads and find this thread interesting because it is so relentlessly positive. Doesn't anybody have any negatives and/or NEC bashing, like all the other threads seem to for their respective manufacturers? Again, kudos on a productive thead.

Now, to the business at hand. As I said, this thread is my first entree into the NEC plasma world. I've been looking at the Panny ED, the Pio 4340 and 45 HD's and the LG HD - all 42". So those are my points of comparison.

The thread is very helpful, but here are my questions:
- In terms of models, I'd be looking for the consumer models. It appears that the most common NEC consumer ED is the VR5, correct?
- Are there any other NEC ED models to consider? Any updated model numbers? What about HD models?
- I assume the VR5 is the "apples to apples" comparison to the Panny 42" ED consumer, right?
- What inputs does the VR5 have? DVI, it seems. What about HDMI? Any front inputs?
- Where can I see these displays? No stores I've been to seem to have them.
- How is the brightness on these displays? Meaning, how do they hold up during the day in a bright room?
- Similarly, where can I buy these? Online only? It seems that many of you are Canadien. What gives with the NEC's?

Finally, how do you all compare the NEC's against the competitors I noted earlier?

It would be interesting if I end up with an NEC because that was the first model TV I ever bought back in 1987.

Thank you!

Walt in Arizona

Originally posted by Dave the Canuck
Question about SD PQ:



I've also been thinking to defer the purchase until next fall, with the hope that prices will drop between now and then. Are there any educated guesses out there as to when and by how much prices will drop throughout '05?

Thanks,
Dave


Rogo made a post a few weeks back saying that plasma prices *should*
drop 25-30% from year end 04 to end of 05. I waited till after the CES show
and I think it was about a 10% drop so that leaves about 15% to go till next
christmas. Others believe we will see a decrease when Panasonic
releases their 8th generation,some believe just before summer.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=501284

Now in my case the possible 15+ point decrease does not matter because I
will make that up in pure enjoyment of my display.

...to add to my post:
- What is the quality of the NEC glass? Do they make their own?
- What sort of tuner(s) - or not - does the VR5 have? I don't think it's even that big of an issue for me as I'll be using a Cox STB.
- Did I read that the Pioneer 42" ED set is a rebadged NEC? If so, which model?

Thanks again.

Walt

Sorry, I forgot one more: What is the scaler like for SD signals? For example, I've read the the Pioneer has an excellent scaler for SD signals; stronger, in fact, than the Panny.

Coffee hasn't kicked in yet...

The more I see, the more I like about this...including some smoking online pricing.

But...

Looks like no stand and no speakers are included. Do any of the NEC models of the 42" ED include those? If not, where to find them? (I assume whatever online retailer I bought from would have these)

Tx...

IMHO, I think the SD scaler has got to be one of the very best in the industry. As a D* subscriber I have my VR5 connected via S-video to the STB and my DVD player connected via component. The SD PQ is truly outstanding!!--on most programming (HBO, Starz). It really has to be seen to be believed! Very close to DVD quality.

Another *very* important consideration is a panel's "stretch" mode, since most SD programming is 4:3. None of the other panels (IMHO) come close to the very, very realistic and distortion-free "stadium" mode of the NEC.

All the above FWIW

Originally posted by waltaz
The more I see, the more I like about this...including some smoking online pricing.

But...

Looks like no stand and no speakers are included. Do any of the NEC models of the 42" ED include those? If not, where to find them? (I assume whatever online retailer I bought from would have these)

Tx...

The stands are all available from all on-line retailers as an accessory. The prices though ($225-$275) are akin to highway robbery for what you get..it's very sturdy-but c'mon not $250 (what I paid) worth of sturdy.

The speakers are also available at an outrageous price (for what you get). I think somewhere around $350! For that price you could/should get an inexpensive HTIB and get the benefit of DD5.1

Originally posted by PerryU
Just to clarify, fuzzione: there are discrete ON and OFF codes for the NEC? I would think the problem yobob found with the TV being out of synch with the rest of the components would only happen with a 'toggle ON/OFF' code, not discrete codes. Maybe it supports both code sets... I think many tvs do.

And are there discrete codes to select the input too?

Thanks... Perry.

It has both discrete and toggle for power. My VR5 remote has separate on/off buttons. I have a harmony and it uses the toggle.

Originally posted by waltaz
[B- I assume the VR5 is the "apples to apples" comparison to the Panny 42" ED consumer, right?[/B]

By no means! None of the NECs come with tuners or speakers, or a stand. The consumer Panys do.

The VR5 is nearly identical with the VM5, the color of the bezel being different, as is the remote, and length of warranty. Also, I read recently (above?) that the VR5 comes with a DVI cable while the VM5 doesn't.

Check some of the fourm sponsors at the top of the page for the NEC panels. They will have specs, pricing, downloadable brochures, etc., which should answer all your questions except the biggie, and you will have to make that decision yourself. Which one to buy. :D

Originally posted by Island
Does your original NEC remote have one power button or does it have separate buttons for on and off?

Actually, I have a Sony at this time, about to pull the trigger on a NEC or the Pio equivalent. I was addressing an issue that I thought might be common for the Harmony remotes. Turns out it is. :)

Mishu - You just answered two key issues for me: the scaler and the stretch mode (though I forgot to note that last one). Great news! Plus, that is EXACTLY how I will be hooking it up.

Re the speakers, I don't need them as I'm already ouputting from the STB to my HTIP. Would be a "nice to have" for basic stuff and for the wife and kids, but definitely don't need them. I'll trade that for some of the other pluses the NEC has.

Re the stand...oh well - can't have it all.

Thanks for the responses re. the PQ with SD through cable TV.

Does the NEC have a built-in feature for correcting burn-in? I know some of the plasmas have a feature that sort of washes the screen to rid it of ghosting (stop laughing at my newbee descritpion :D ). I'm hoping the NEC has something along these lines too.

For those living in the Greater Toronto Area, a small high-end electronics shop located near the end of Kingston Rd (in east Scarborough) named "Musonic" has the NEC on display. Those interested in a first-hand viewing might want to pop by for a look. Talk to Alan, he really knows his stuff and is pleasant to deal with. I just bought my Pioneer Elite A/V receiver and Monitor Audio Radius HT speaker package from him.

Cheers,
Dave

Originally posted by waltaz
Mishu - You just answered two key issues for me........

Re the stand...oh well - can't have it all.
Speaking of stands. Does anyone know of any universal tabletop stands that would work with the NEC, other than the Peerless model?

Dave

Sounds like you're honing in on this too, Dave.

Ditto for me - I'm liking everything I hear. First PDP I've been real excited about. I would still like to see it, though (I'm in Scottsdale, AZ).

Walt

Originally posted by waltaz
Sounds like you're honing in on this too, Dave.

Ditto for me - I'm liking everything I hear. First PDP I've been real excited about. I would still like to see it, though (I'm in Scottsdale, AZ).

Walt
That's going to be a bit of a drive up to the electronics store I mentioned in Toronto..... :)

Dave

Originally posted by Dave the Canuck
Thanks for the responses re. the PQ with SD through cable TV.

Does the NEC have a built-in feature for correcting burn-in? I know some of the plasmas have a feature that sort of washes the screen to rid it of ghosting (stop laughing at my newbee descritpion :D ). I'm hoping the NEC has something along these lines too.
It has several things. First and most important (to me anyway) is the inverse screen, where if you do manage to get some ghosting or potential burn in, you turn this on and leave it on the same screen that caused the problem, it reverses all colors to even out the wear. I don't know if it works for true burn in but definitely does for lesser issues. Then there is also the wipe mode, where a vertical white bar crosses the screen every 10 seconds or so. There is also the orbiter to help prevent problems in the first place (shifts the image a pixel or 2 periodically). There are also a couple power modes to reduce overall brightness if you like, 25%, 50%, 75%, or 100%.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dave the Canuck
Thanks for the responses re. the PQ with SD through cable TV...

Dave, my positive PQ comments were not "through cable TV" as you replied. Down here there is a significant PQ difference between Comcast & D*, with D* being by far the better of the two...which is why I switched some years ago. Just wanted to clarify that for you.

Just got the call from the shipper. I am going to meet him at my house in about 20 minutes. It's just like Christmas morning! Wade

Here's some images of my plasma mounted and ready to go. Not the best pics as they were taken in a rush:

http://members.rogers.com/db_racer/plasmainstall1.jpg
http://members.rogers.com/db_racer/plasmainstall2.jpg
http://members.rogers.com/db_racer/plasmainstall3.jpg
http://members.rogers.com/db_racer/plasmainstall4.jpg

The mantel is all new and custom made to accomodate and conceal all the wiring (you can see one of the still open wiring access holes at on the bottom side)

The demo station sfor hd in the toronto area that repeats the much music vma awards looks stunning. Everyone loves raymond and the other hd big network sitcoms also look stunning on the 30 or so HD channels we get as part of the rogers services locally.

Bump

waltaz
Contact Commercial Computer Services Inc. 15945 N. 76th Street, Scottsdale, tel. 480-348-0100, as they are an NEC authorized distributor. They may have one available for viewing or at least know if there are any NEC PDPs on display in your area.

Thanks...will do tomorrow.

"It has both discrete and toggle for power."

Thanks, sievers! ...and discretes to select each input too?

"It seems that many of you are Canadien."

Actually, waltaz, we're Canadian. Ou, en francais, nous sommes Canadienne. :)

One reason the NECs are getting lots of attention in Canada is the warranty situation, compared to Panasonic. Panasonic Canada will only honour the canadian warranty for panels that were sold by an authorized canadian distributor, even though all the tvs, even those sold in the states, reportedly come with both american and canadian warranty cards. (They seem to keep tabs on the serial numbers of those delivered to the canadian channel.) Meanwhile the only suppliers that come close to american prices (after currency exchange) are 'grey-market' etailers that bring in US product... with no canadian warranty. So basically you pay a considerable premium, or you ship your panel to the states for warranty service.

The NECs, meanwhile, come with a North America-wide warranty whether they're sold north or south of the border. So the discount etailers are able to sell fully warrantied units.

At least that's my understanding. Don't know if anything will change with the Pioneer purchase of NEC's plasma business.

...because it re-appeared on their web site. Somewhat impulsive, but I have been secretly pining for a Pio.

I was really high on the VR5...until I got to the "no speaker" part with my wife. That was a dealbreaker for her, where it wasn't an issue for me. Good thing I checked!

Thanks for all the info!

Walt

Waltaz, the nec vm5 comes with a built in amp and speaker outputs so you can just connect any cheap ( or expensive) pair of speakers to get audio. The desire method of course is to attach a separate amp and 5.1 or better speaker package for the full experience.

I know I could have done that, felt overall, the Pio was a deal I couldn't pass up.

I was very impressed with the NEC's and am somewhat surprised they don't get more play here. I would actually rank them ahead of the Panny's.

The Pio has two key features in common with the NEC's: excellent scaler for SD (much better than Panny) and an excellent "stretch" mode.

By buying from Costco, if these and other attributes aren't satisfactory, I will simply return it (at any time!) and go in another direction. Lot of security with that.

Walt

Originally posted by PerryU
"It has both discrete and toggle for power."

Thanks, sievers! ...and discretes to select each input too?

Yup.

SWEEEET! My wife just called and told me that our new VR5 was delivered to the house today. She immediately went to Cox and switched out our cable box for the new Motorola HD/DVR box (the 6412 I think?).

I cannot wait to get home and dive into setting this thing up, and I cannot wait to play around with it. Talk about excited!!!

I hope to post my settings here soon....will calibrate ASAP.

Ok, I have a question:

I am trying to get the best signal possible from my cable box (Motorola 6412 HD/DVR box). Right now I have the video connected to my VR5 using both S-Video and a DVI cable. I thought I remember reading that for SD signals that S-Video can provide a better picture, but I wanted the digital connection for my HD signal.

So far, so good. HD looks stunning using the DVI connection, and SD looks better through the S-Video connection than thru the DVI (in my initial opinion).

Here's the problem....I cannot access/view the on-screen program guide unless I am going through the digital connection. Does anyone else have this problem?? Also, when using the DVI connection, I do not have as many stretch options available to me as I do when going thru the analog connection. So, basically I have to switch to a digital connection to view the guide, find my channel, then switch back to analog to watch tv. Kind of a pain. Is it normal that the DVI input not allow you to stretch the picture as many ways as other inputs?

Would it help if I just went component only from my cable box to the tv? Would I then be able to use all the stretch modes AND the online guide without having to switch back and forth?

I have the XM4 and the only way I can get all of the stretch modes using the DVI input, is to set the resolution out of my HD TiVo to 480i. Stadium mode works well for SD channels in this manner.

MC - you want to make sure that you set up the 6412 to output 480i for non-HD images in order to have access to all the stretch modes. I can't remember the exact verbiage in the setup menu that enables this but I think its on the third line down. I currently run DVI from the 6412 into my XR4.

I can't help with the S-video/menu issue because I haven't experimented with it at all. Of course, I do admit to having quickly become an HD snob and SD quality is so bad it isn't worth polishing because a turd will always be a turd and even if polished it just isn't worth looking at. Seriously, once an image becomes ugly, making it marginally better doesn't do anything for me. I've been corrupted :p.

overtime

Just got my 42VR5A from TVAuthority. Took exactly 6 business days from the moment I called till it was in my house. Great service from the company.

So far I've connected it to my old Pioneer DVD player via S-Video. The images are incredible: so much clarity and colors are no comparison to my old Panasonic CRT.

My questions:
1) how do I calibrate this plasma? I read that DVE and Avia are obsolete for plasmas and lcds.
2) what is the best result for DVD connection? (component?)
3) I tried johnnycanucks settings for DVD input but the picture was too washed out. (I think brightness is set too high).

Let's start from the beginning.
Wait at least 100 hr viewing your plasma to "break-in" electronics(it's called burn-in in A/V world)
Latest edition AVIA and DVE are good for plasma.
Regarding connection: DVI/HDMI best, then component, s-video, composite.
For trying out other members setting: they will be not suitable for you unless you have same DVD/cables setup as member have.(make sure you asked for DVD setting)

so far best cables for me are MIT, then Tarra Labs.

thanks luk350 for your reply. What settings is recommended for first 100hours: brightness, contrast, sharpness ?

General rule of thumb, keep it below default settings, especially for brightness and contrast.
Don't use 4:3 mode(avoid side bars), use stadium mode instead, no static pictures for long time, use your DVD/Replay/Tivo sreensaver.

Thanks to JohnnyCanuck and this board I picked up the VM5.

And for a great price too from Cendirect.
Don't you just love this board!

As for calibration, what is the best disc to get with spending the $ for an ISF calibration and negating all the savings?

BTW, I have mine hooked up to the Denon 2910 via the DVI cable and the picture is awesome!

Also, FYI I picked up the Daytek from Costco just to try it out and you know what the picture of the Daytek isn't too far behind the NEC!
The blacks are actually better on the Daytek! aka Panny blacks.

I had them both hooked up and playing an identical DVD and the NEC is marginally better.

The Daytek is going back to Costco today...
PS. The Daytek was reduced to $2199 which makes it a very decent buy for us Canadians.

I've been considering Costco's Daytek 42" as well. The idea being that I can return it in a year and buy the NEC at a much cheaper price. How was the stretch modes on it, and how did it handle SD?

Thanks,
Dave

SD was quite good. Like I said, the picture was quite close to the NEC.
I didn't have it hooked up to cable so don't know how the tuner was.

Hey to return it after being used for a year is being 'anti-social'!
I did return mine after 3 days because I wanted to compare the NEC and the Daytek side by side.

Originally posted by DavidM5
Hey to return it after being used for a year is being 'anti-social'!


AND may hurt the possibility for legitimate returns for the rest of us!

If it's broke, that's one thing, but . . .

Originally posted by yobob
AND may hurt the possibility for legitimate returns for the rest of us!
If it's broke, that's one thing, but . . .
In all fairness, the guys at the Costco brag about the fact you can keep it practically indefinitely and still get your refund.

Dave

I'll revive this thread by saying that my VM5 is arriving tomorrow. Can't wait! (purchased from Cendirect)

Welcome aboard Silvio, prepare to be highly entertained by your new toy.

I'm betting the relative silence on this thread means we're all too busy enjoying our outstanding NEC's. I know I am. In fact, I've become a bit of a geek, spending much of my time learning on the HTPC forum. I've married the NEC to my decent computer through component, using FFDshow, Dscaler and Zoom Player. It's quite amazing. Absolutely blows away my new generation DVD players.

The tweakability and versatility of the NEC displays is truly astounding for the price. As the NEC seems to be a particularly sensitive unit, good clean signals is where it performs in spectacular fashion. An HTPC is just the thing to deliver what it needs. You can adjust and customize virtually every aspect of picture quality including upscaling, sharpening, black levels, noise elimination, etc. You guys ought to give it a whirl, steep learning curve but worth it if you have a discriminating eye.

My PC is connected too. But I haven't installed the recommended software yet. I think I'll start working on it this weekend.

Fuzzione, did you post your HTPC settings/findings anywhere?

Thanks to everyone for this extremely helpful site.

Does anyone know of NEC's plans for their 2005 models? I'm in the process of building a new entertainment center and will be ready to buy a display about the time the new Panny's are out. I was leaning toward an NEC VM5 because of this thread and the "Panny 7UY Problems" thread. But the new Panny's have upped the anty some and I'm assuming they will remedy the S-video and black level problems. So I'll be back at the starting point as far as a decision between the two, and I was hoping to get some ideas on what NEC plans to do.

Silvio, being a little new at this I'm still tinkering with settings but the following seems to work quite well for me at the moment but I still think it can be tweaked some more:

Display: VM5
Size of image: 853 x 480
Viewing distance: 8'
Connection type: ATI Component Dongle
Video card: ATI 9800 Pro AIW
CPU: P4 Northwood 2.8 oc'd to 3.1
Memory: 2 x 512 OCZ Dual Channel DDR SDRAM PC3200

OS: Windows XP Pro SE2
Driver version: Catalyst 5.2
Output resolution: 856 x 480
Add. enh: (ie. AA, AF)
Video Codec: DScaler 5005
Video Renderer: VM9 Windowless
Ffdshow version: 20040801a Preview (Andy's build)

Fdshow filters used (in order)
1. Denoise3d - .5, .5, 5, FAST
2.Lanczos 4 - Luma/Chroma at .3
3.
4. (output colorspace) YV12

Here's a good starting point for all this, much more on the HTPC forum:

http://htpcnews.com/main.php?id=ffdshowdvd_1

I wish I knew more about all of this but getting there slowly...

Oops, item 2 should have also included Lanczos resize of 1440 x 960

I have stumbled across some sporadic comments regarding stuck/dead pixels on these panels- even on replacements that were exchanged for units with this problem originally. I know this pixel issue is somewhat common on on all plasma displays, but any particular problems to speak of regarding these models?

Also, anyone know what the NEC policy in this regard? I know some manufacturers allow for a replacement if there is one green pixel in the center, or two, or three red, or blue on the outer region of the display - and proximity to one another is also a determining factor. I assume most authorized vendors would adhere to the manufacturer's policy.

Very informative information in this thread.

Thanks

Does anyone know if the following stand is available in the states? I found the link in a UK forum.

NEC VR5 swivel stand (silver) (http://www.avreview.co.uk/news/images/nec_plasmas3.jpg)

I have been meaning to put together a longer post concerning my experience with both NEC and Plasma Concepts regarding my stuck pixel issue. However, I have not had a lot of time to do so, so I will quickly say something here.

In a nutshell, I am completely impressed with both NEC and Plasma Concepts. My problem was a stuck blue pixel near the center of the screen. It was constantly lit on bright blue, and was very distracting to me and something I considered a real defect. I felt horrible, because I was really expecting bad news from Plasma Concepts/NEC when I called them.

Well, Bob at Plasma Concepts was really good about it. He told me that they had to defer to NEC for a pixel issue, but was very helpful in giving me the number and was really interested in following up with me after the fact. He actually called me a couple of times during the process to check in with me to see how it was going. I really appreciated this. Now on to NEC....

NEC was also great. They wanted to see digital pictures of the problem. They were always very polite and prompt. I sent them six pictures that I thought really displayed the problem well. Within two days I had an answer from NEC, and they agreed to a replacement. they immediately shipped me one out. In two more days I had it, set it up at home, and it was perfect. The next day they came and got my old unit.

So, the bottom line is that I was very impressed with NEC and Plasma Concepts. I now have the plasma that I wanted in the first place.....they handled this very well and I am very happy.

Michael
Who did you talk to at NEC? I talked to Bob this morning and my experiance was the same as yours. The Guy at NEC told me that up to three pixels was OK but when pushed a little bit said I could take pictures and send them in and they would look at it. My pixel is flashing green, in the middle, 5 inches up from the bottom. It would be interesting to know how many others have pixel issues.

Good to hear Michael got his problem resolved to his satisfaction.

To be honest I was going to place an order this week, but now I'm prepared to wait and see how this plays out - particularly how WJB's situation is dealt with.

Again, I know this type of thing happens on occasion with this technology, however it seems there is an inordinate number of pixel problems with these panels as opposed to other models.

Let me chime in and say that I received my VM5 yesterday. And it has a flashing blue pixel near the center of the screen and an occasional flashing green pixel 4 inches further out.

I bought from Cendirect in Montreal and after my salesperson spoke to NEC, she said they (NEC) would like to see a picture of the problem before replacing the panel.

I'll update when I get more news.

I haven't gotten around to taking a picture yet, but last night it seemed as if the flashing blue pixel was less obvious, practically no longer visible from my normal viewing distance (10-11 ft) and the green one is flashing less often...

Is it possible that the display is 'getting back to normal'?

Or am I going nuts?

I think it has to do with the signal. My theory is that the flashing occurs when a certain color (range) is trying to be displayed by that pixel. Some pixels/transistors will flash with a wider range.

Eg. Pixel A flashes red all the time for me. Therefore it does not matter what color is trying to be displayed. Pixel B, however, flashes green but only when the pixel is trying to display a range of blue color. That is why (I believe) sometimes the pixels flash more than the others. Or maybe it's something as simple as heat. /shrug. Easy enough to roughly test though if you can find two pieces of media where the pixels exhibit different flashing behavior.

As for taking pictures of the issue. If you have a digital camera, see if you have a multiple exposure setting. My old Kodak allows me to take 3 shots in rapid succession. Given enough trys, you'll grab it at its worst. :)

I paused an image last night and it flashed just the same. Also the flash is random in nature that the time between flashes is between 1 to 5 seconds.

Kudo's to Nec.

I sent a couple of pictures this morning and by this afternoon they agreed to replace the VM5.

:)

Good for you Silvio. I sent mine in on Monday and I am still waiting to hear back from them.

Yep, good for you Silvio, and NEC.

I have yet to hear of any NEC pixel fault situations in which NEC did not satisfy the customer.

Can anyone out there comment? Just curious.

I received the replacement panel on Friday. It looks great, no bad pixels! (Knock on wood).

whats better to use, an XBOX with HDTV adapter? or a MCE 2005 machine for playing DVDs?

NEC is going to replace my unit. Thanks to forum member Tly whose post made me closely inspect my screen because if you are more than 30 days away from the purchase date NEC will send a refurb unit instead of a new one because it won't be considered DOA and I had almost went past that deadline. It appears that flashing pixels override NEC's policy for 3 malfuntioning pixels being within spec. Thanks to Bob Dosek at Plasma Concepts and all the folks in tech support at NEC who have been very helpful in resolving this issue. I am hoping for no problems with the new panel.

Tly did you resolve your issue with your replacement panel?

Since all you guys seem to have been running the VM5 for a while this seems like the most appropriate thread to post this in......

We are evaluating a VM5 (the one with AR glass) for use in our digital merchandising system for work. We will be using one for digital merchandising and dynamic menuboards, while another one will be set up in a dining area to display TV. We have had one of the new LG MU-42PM11 plasmas for about a month right now, but are unable to use this one in our application because of a depth constraint in the existing cabinet...That is why we chose to go with the NEC. We just got the NEC in yesterday, and after spending a couple of hours tweaking it: I must say the LG seems to blow it away as far as image "Pop" is concearned.

Now I know that image brightness is not everything, definately in a videophile world, but as far as our application goes...Eye catching is what we are going for. I have the two set up side-by-side, and the NEC doesn't hold up at all against the LG. I took a nits (cd/m^2) measurement using our light meter on an all black screen with a small white square, and we were only getting about 220nits out of the NEC, as compared to about 415 out of the LG. I tried jacking up the contrast, brightness, ect, but all the whites still look like a cream compared to the stark white as displayed on the LG.

Couple of questions:
1) Any official number that anyone has found in documentation on the brightness (nits) and C/R for this panel.
2) Is there something iI am missing as far as settings go (I've read the entire thread and didn't see anything)
3) Has anyone else done a side-by-side comparison with another ED 42" plasma and noticed the same thing.
4) I am also having a problem running 852x480 (which the documentation states that it handles). I am losing about 2-3 pixels total and cannot get it to fit. I tried all the different settings, sometimes forcing to do a reset all to get back to where it looks close to right.

Setup:
PC driving both displays using dual-head card in clone mode 852x480
Using VGA HD15 connections to connect to both panels
Same lighting conditions for both

I would say, even in a dark room I would vote for the LG, even if properly calibrated via AVIA or DVE. BTW, LG's claim to 1500nits and 5000:1 C/R is total BS.

Thanks for yall response, and any insight or suggestions would be great.

Brandon

Originally posted by WJB
NEC is going to replace my unit. Thanks to forum member Tly whose post made me closely inspect my screen because if you are more than 30 days away from the purchase date NEC will send a refurb unit instead of a new one because it won't be considered DOA and I had almost went past that deadline. It appears that flashing pixels override NEC's policy for 3 malfuntioning pixels being within spec. Thanks to Bob Dosek at Plasma Concepts and all the folks in tech support at NEC who have been very helpful in resolving this issue. I am hoping for no problems with the new panel.

Tly did you resolve your issue with your replacement panel?

Glad you got it taken care of WJB! I only hope your replacement is free of defects (unlike my replacement).

As for my particular case, I think I'm just going to live through it. It's FAR less intrusive than the panel it replaced. Only once in awhile do I notice it. /sigh - oh well. I still maintain there is some sort of semi-widespread issue here with these panels.

Good luck!

Been a lurker for many months on this forum andfinally pulled the trigger on the 42VR5 yesterday! Apologies for the newbie question, but I am purchasing component cables for the set and think I need one RCA-RCA and one RCA-BNC cable to use the two component inputs. Could anyone please confirm if this is correct?

Many thanks!
ds

Congrat dsavs!

Yes, you are correct about the Component Inputs. One is strictly RCA (3 of them) and the other is BNC (5 connectors but for a component signal you only attach to 3 of them). Just need to set it for Component (not RGB) in your menu.

Originally posted by dsavs
... I am purchasing component cables.... one RCA-BNC cable to use the two component inputs. Could anyone please confirm if this is correct?

Many thanks!
ds

Or you can buy just the connectors that convert from BNC to RCA (I paid 1.59 each), that way your component cables could be reused in the future..

Question for you VM5 owners. How does this display do in stretching 4x3 material. I am about to pull the trigger on this display and it is the last piece to the puzzle. Thanks folks.

Question for you VM5 owners. How does this display do in stretching 4x3 material. I am about to pull the trigger on this display and it is the last piece to the puzzle. Thanks folks.

There is a mode called stadium that stretches 4x3 sd material without it looking excessively wide (you know, short squat bodies...), very pleasing to the eyes!

My wife is very sensitive to the short and fat look on our projector. This is "her" room so the short and fat just isnt going to cut it. Thanks for the help. I have struggled with this decsion for WEEKS on which display and I am buying the NEC sight unseen so I hope it is as advertised.

Minge.

Struggle no more...in the NEC "stadium" aspect the stretch is virtually indistinguishable (IMO) from 4:3. I check for 'flaws' or "hints" all the time by flipping from "stadium" to "4:3" quite a bit--especially when I'm sure that I will see a difference (example, vertical telephone poles on the far edges of the screen)...but I am constantly amazed at the precision with which the NEC performs the stretch. According to their literature, they only stretch outside of a large centered-circle and then gradually and proportionately stretch to the edges. Just no not know how they do that!!! Some sort of complex algorithm no doubt, but the end result--no short fat people. no "curved" vertical lines at the outer edges of the screen--looks close to perfect to my eyes.

FWIW,
Jack

Yep, the Stadium mode is quite amazing on my VR5!

Another question for you VM5 owners. I am looking into stands and would you say the bezel is closer to charcoal or black?

First - let me say that this is my first post here on AVS. All I can say is ... this place ROCKS! I usually frequent another Cdn forum but I think I've found a new home here - you folks are great!

I am about to order a VM5 and table stand from Cendirect. I've done a TON of research on this panel vs the panny 7UY and I've decided to go with the NEC. One key factor in me is how the manufactures seem to stand behind their products wtih NEC winning hands down IMHO.

I'd like to thank JohnnyC and everyone else who contributed to this thread as it is - bar none - the most informative and comprehensive thread I have seen on any piece of equipment. I actually printed this thread out and spent most of the weekend reading through it. That said, I do have a couple of questions:

1. All: I want to purchase the input terminal cover as you will see that side of the panel from a chair in my HT room. I am having trouble locating this piece on the net [P/N PX-CVU2]. Can anybody point me toward a source for this cover?

2: Desjars: Sorry to single ya out bud BUT you are running the EXACT same cable inputs I will be [Rogers 8300HD box]. Can you please elaborate on what connections you are using on the panel and what type of cables you are using?

I can't wait to get my panel and get it up and running so I can start the tweaks and start contributing to this awesome thread.

BTW - if ya know anybody who wants to buy a gently used Toshiba 51HX83 drop me a PM or an e-mail - gotta move mine to make room for the VM5 lol!

Originally posted by Minge
Another question for you VM5 owners. I am looking into stands and would you say the bezel is closer to charcoal or black?

Looks like charcoal to me. I have the Bell'O AVS 422T which is glass and dark (mat) silver. It is also about 1" wider than the PDP.

Bello website (http://www.bello.com/AV/avs-422t.asp)

Everything blends in very well, black center speaker, black receiver, black CD player, silver STB...

Originally posted by Minge
Another question for you VM5 owners. I am looking into stands and would you say the bezel is closer to charcoal or black?

Nice stand Silvio :). Bell'o has some amazing furniture all be it kind of pricey. The one I am going with is the AVS-4201A. I liked it as it is close in colour to the VM5's black frame AND it has three shelves so I can put my CC on the first one and components on the bottom two.

Originally posted by Boardman
1. All: I want to purchase the input terminal cover as you will see that side of the panel from a chair in my HT room. I am having trouble locating this piece on the net [P/N PX-CVU2]. Can anybody point me toward a source for this cover?



Only place I could find mine was from NEC direct. If you call them up, they should be able to hook you up. I got mine shipped for $55 from them. I am in the U.S. though.

Originally posted by tony17
Only place I could find mine was from NEC direct. If you call them up, they should be able to hook you up. I got mine shipped for $55 from them. I am in the U.S. though.

Is there a way that you could post a picture of this cover. I plan on making mine in the shop I work at and it would be helpful to see what one actually looks like. Thanks, Wade

Originally posted by tony17
Only place I could find mine was from NEC direct. If you call them up, they should be able to hook you up. I got mine shipped for $55 from them. I am in the U.S. though.

Thanks for confirming what I feared. I'll see if NEC Canada can hook me up.

Originally posted by Boardman
Nice stand Silvio :). Bell'o has some amazing furniture all be it kind of pricey. The one I am going with is the AVS-4201A. I liked it as it is close in colour to the VM5's black frame AND it has three shelves so I can put my CC on the first one and components on the bottom two.

I liked the 4201, but that first shelf isn't tall enough for my center speaker which is 8" tall. I really liked the AVSC-2103 (it has wood accents) but I couldn't find it in Montreal, even the distributor (in Toronto) didn't have any... All in all, I can't complain because the one I got was half the price, btw you have enough room to put components side by side on the shelves of the 422T.

Boardman, a store here in Montreal had a floor model 4201 to sell. Let me know if you need more info.

For anybody interested in the input terminal cover [p/n PX-CVu2] for these panels I have confirmed the only place it is available is from NEC Visual Systems @ 1-800-NEC-INFO. Price is U$50 / C$63 plus shipping which goes from U$5 for 5 day to U$20 for next day before noon. I'll be gettin'mine in 5 days :).

I have my NEC coming next week. In an effort to squeeze as much performance out of it as possible I have considered purchasing an outboard processor. I have a couple of questions for you owners.
First, am I putting good money out for no return? Second, i will be running a D* HD Tivo and a Pioneer Elite universal player both through the component outputs. If I run these outputs to the scaler and then to the NEC will it be scaled twice or is there a analog pass through? If a scaler is a plus and will add performance which scaler would you suggest? It must be an easy to use type set it and forget it as this is going to be my wifes primary room. I have looked at the DVDO HD+ or the Pixel Magic Plasma Enhancer.

Thanks folks, I look forward to you input.

Minge
I have been using my VR5 with an older non-interlaced DVD player (Toshiba SD-1600) through component cables for the last two months. Replacing this DVD player was the first thing on my list after purchasing the VR5, but the picture was so good that I decided to wait for the new DVD recorders now just coming out. We watched Finding Nemo last night and I was looking for the artifacts that have been mentioned in other posts, but was extremely happy with the picture as the on-board scaler of the NEC is doing a fine job.

We have a Motorola 2XXX STB with S-Video cable that I was also planning on replacing and it looks just fine with SD material. Jeopardy is really a pleasant surprise as the set appears three dimensional, there is no geometric distortion, the lettering is crisp and facial features are well defined. As HD content is sorely lacking in this neck of the woods, I am content to stay with this STB for the time being.

IMHO there is no need for an outboard scaler, as the NEC seems to handle everything nicely by itself.

BTW, in answer to an earlier post of yours, I was concerned about the Stadium stretch mode as I am very sensitive to distortion, but can assure you that with few exceptions I do not notice it. If there is action or a face close to the edge of the screen it will sometimes draw my attention if the exaggeration is bad enough.

2: Desjars: Sorry to single ya out bud BUT you are running the EXACT same cable inputs I will be [Rogers 8300HD box]. Can you please elaborate on what connections you are using on the panel and what type of cables you are using?

Boardman, sorry for the slow response. Haven't visited recently - too busy watching my panel. :)

On the 8300HD, I use relatively cheap Ultralink cables (Challenger series) for both my component and S-video connections. I use S-video for all SD programming. I've switched back and forth between component and S-video many many times, and while I would give an edge to component for colour vibrancy, the S-video connection just looks smoother on SD, with less video noise. Basically, as soon as the PVR starts outputting 480i (which is indicated on the 8300HD's front display), I switch to the S-video input. For HD programming (1080i), I use component. One thing I haven't done yet is try the NEC HDMI to DVI cable. I've been meaning to, but the picture is so good on all but a few channels, so there hasn't been any real urgency to do so.

Thanks for the response and the input desjars - much appreciated! Good news is my panel is due to arrive today :). Bad news is I've been called out of town on business [leaving in a couple of hours] and won't be back until Sunday AND the Bello stand I ordered won't arrive until this coming Monday :(. No Plasma for me before I go away BUT what motivation to get home lol!

Thanks again to to everyone for the input and insight. Give me another week or so I'll be contributuing to this great thread big time. FWIW the DVE disc is on the way as well - it's gonna KILL me to wait 100 hours before I calibrate;).

Boardman, no need to wait... you can (in fact should, to get out of 'torch' mode) calibrate right away. You just need to do it again after 100 hours, once it's settled in.

Enjoy!

From a previous post:

You have six picture memory settings. Do your NTSC calibration on Memory Setting #3 (as an example). Go the the 2nd page of the picture-setting menu and enter a name for that setting...for example "NTSC" and enter "Set".

btw, ive got a VM5 and i suppose this procedure is only available to VR5 owners? is there a way that i can do this on a VM5? i tried looking for it in the menu but i couldnt find it

Since per input memory settings (or multiple memory settings) are an important feature to me, I read through the VM5 operating manual and the VR5 manual.

At least per the manual, the VR5 has 6 memory settings. This would be fine for my needs. But, it does not appear that the VM5 has these 6 memory settings. Do I have this straight?


JCPZero

As I recently posted in another thread, I have major window reflection problems in my family room. My existing Toshiba 36" CRT is almost unwatchable on a sunny day, from some angles. Will a plasma be any better?

Based on research in this forum, the NEC 42VM5 has an anti-reflective surface and the 42VP5 has anti-glare. I've contacted NEC, but cannot find any dealer here in the SF Bay Area that has these models on display.

Do any of existing NEC EDTV owners have similar problems? Or does the coating do a good job of minimising reflections?

I'm also considering the Peerless PLT-BLK tabletop stand that provides a 5 degree backward and 10 degree forward tilt, which should also help.

Thanks,
Steve

So .. I finally got the panel up and running - WOW! It's only been on a few hours and I haven't touched any pic settings yer and it STILL looks incredible. No dead pix's either :).

I am tyring to set up my Harmony 680 remote to deal with the input switching in the 42VM5A. Has anybody done this? I need to use two buttons on the NEC remote as my S-vide0 for on "video 3" [video button] any my DVD player and HDTV feeds both run in on component cables"DVD / HD" button]. Been at this a while and it's starting to get not fun lol! I'd call Harmony but I don't enjoy dealing with them so that's gonna be the last resort. TIA :)

I'm also looking for a dealer who might have this brand on display. I'm in the Dallas/Fort Worth area and have had no luck so far. I've also been looking for a "Find a dealer near you" search feature on their website, but have been unable to do so. Where has anyone seen NEC plasmas before buying?

This is a zipped Excel spreadsheet file of NEC authourized dealers in North America for the year 2004.

I received an error message when posting the above file. If it does not open properly, please PM me and I will send the file directly to your e-mail address. I have looked on the NEC website for a current copy of this list but could not find it. If anyone has a link to the latest list, please post.

jcpzero
You are correct - see my post #69 in this thread for a more complete list of the differences between the consumer and commercial sets.

Britsteve
I replaced an older Toshiba CRT with the VR5 and can say that there is a definite improvement in screen reflection. But I was going from a curved to a flat panel, which eliminated distortion as well as some glare. Only you are going to be able to determine if there will be any improvement for your exact situation. Good luck.

TMac145,

Thanks for you help with the authorized dealer info. I couldn't get the link to work either though. Check your pm's.

Well - the NEC is working out quite well. I will finally have time to day to do an inital calibration and can't wait! One question - what is the best to to use to clean the screen with? TAI :).

Bump ;=))

I too was wondering what is best to use to clean the screen with. Got a few finger marks when mounting it on the wall..

Gread thread BTW. Helped me out heaps when deciding what to buy.

Cheers,
Andrew

I have my 42VR5 hooked to an Onkyo DR-C500 DVD/Receiver through both RCA composite (Moni out-video2) and component (RGB - DVD1) -
A progressive output from the DVD (480p) produces a less clear picture with less detail on the monitor than an interlaced output (480i) - is that okay?

Guys I am new here may be I can get some feedback (Remember it is Canbadian dollars quoted below (2000 canadian say is $1535 US)

Hey, I am new to the forum and I just bought the Daytek EPT- 4202AN. It specs are very good for an EDTV. Costco in Canada recently reduced it to $1999 and there is a $200 in July in the coupon book.

So the end cost will be $2078 w tax. I also bought the Sanus VMPL , both items taxes in cost me $2375 Canadian. From what I can see I can not find anything close to this. The NEC 42VR5 is $2500 plus tax and the wall mount. I paid $300 tax in for the Sanus wall mount which is tiltable, would you recommend any other for less.

I am running Bell HD via a 6120 receiver. FOr the price I paid would you just keep the Daytek cause everything else is gonna run me $650 except the Panny 37" but then it is smaller. From what I see the Daytek is all Nec inside

I would appreciate your feedback

VIDEO

* Screen Size: 920.1(H) X 518.4(V)
* Aspect Ratio: 16:9
* Brightness: 1,000 cd/m^2
* Contrast Ratio: 3,000:1 (Typ.)
* Number of Pixels: 852(H) X 480(V)
* 3D comb filter
* Display Color: 16.7M
* Viewing Angle: over 160¡Æ

AREA

* 1,207(W) X 699(H) X 305(D) mm (with stand)
* 1,207(W) X 635(H) X 84(D) mm (w/o stand)
* 34.5 Kg (with stand)

DOWNLOAD

* Readme (How to use PDP properly.)
* Lisez-moi (Comment utiliser l'écran plasma correctement.)




INPUT / OUTPUT

* 1 X Composite A/V Input
* 1 X S-Video
* 2 X Component Video Input (Y, Pb, Pr)
* 1 X PC (15 Pin D-Sub)
* 1 X DVI (29 Pin)
* 1 X RCA-pin type (L/R)

ADDITIONAL FEATURES

* PIP/PBP
* Sleep Timer
* AVL (Automatic Volume Leveler)
* V-Chip
* Closed Caption
* ISM (Image Sticking Minimization) Panel protection

I can not add the url as I am new and need 5 posts

CK

I know this sounds like a silly question..but can the internal scaling of the NEC VR5 be switched off on the DVI-D input?..

The reason is that i am having issues with double scaling from my dvd player and plasma, which reduces the PQ on the plasma.

What's the designation A PX42VR5A mean? Is it different from PX42VR5?
Same question for 42MV5.

Will the 1-yr NEC warranty for either 42vm5 or 42vr5 or 42vp5 cover ONLINE purchases from unauthorized dealers?

The warrantyfor the "R" model is three years (one year panel).

Unless you're really feeling lucky, I wouldn't make a purchase from an un-authorized dealer. Some here might disagree, but I think most would say the same thing. There might even be some horror stories lurking here.

Bump ;=))

I too was wondering what is best to use to clean the screen with. Got a few finger marks when mounting it on the wall..

Gread thread BTW. Helped me out heaps when deciding what to buy.

Cheers,
Andrew

This thread should inform you what and what not to do:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=548453

jfelbab's advise in the thread is the ultimate advise!

What a great thread!!! Thanks for all who have contributed.

I too am thinking about the plunge with a NEC 42VR5 vs. the Panny PD50. Has anyone done a direct comparison of the the two sets???

Also, is image retention a problem and are you guys worried about burn-in?

I too am thinking about the plunge with a NEC 42VR5 vs. the Panny PD50. Has anyone done a direct comparison of the the two sets???

Let em ask a semi-related question: are any other vendors using the same panel that's in the 42VR5?

Everything I've read about it sounds great, but I'd love to be able to see the VR5 before buying one. Can't seem to find any local vendors that carry NEC. Are there other, perhaps more readily available, vendors OEMing the same panel?

I'm leaning towards a 42VM5 or 42VR5, and am wondering if anyone would mind posting screenshots of the stadium stretch mode vs. the regular 4:3 mode with sidebars? The stadium mode is the main reason I'm probably going with NEC over Panasonic, but I haven't been able to see stadium mode locally.

-Jonathan

I've been studying and searching for a plasma for quite a while now. After reading this thread I must say that the VR5 seems like the one for me.

I would have called and ordered already had I not read about the stuck pixels. Can anyone give me an idea if this was just a few isolated incidents or did this seem to be a problem. Would the VR5 I would purchase possibly contain newer glass or components that would have been corrected since the stuck pixel models were manufactored?

I've very excited about this NEC. Just out of curiosity does anyone know how the VR5 stacks up againts the new ED Pannys? How many colors does the new 8UK panny display?

I looked at the NECs awhile back ...

Are you sure its not the VM5 you want ?
My research indicated the VR5 was for situations where very high ambient light required a different screen coating ... ie like in a retail store with windows nearby ...

Whereas the vm5 was better choice for home viewing.

my .02

jls.

Contact TVAuthority for their Pixel Plus Guarantee if you want to be able to return your VR5 within 30 days. I think you get 1 replacement, but that's it.

Also, I've heard good things about NEC's service and wouldn't be surprised if they fixed it for you if you got some stuck pixels somehow.

I looked at the NECs awhile back ...

Are you sure its not the VM5 you want ?
My research indicated the VR5 was for situations where very high ambient light required a different screen coating ... ie like in a retail store with windows nearby ...

Whereas the vm5 was better choice for home viewing.

my .02

jls.
From what I've read you're thinking of the VP5. The VR5 and VM5 have the same coating.

I looked at the NECs awhile back ...

Are you sure its not the VM5 you want ?
My research indicated the VR5 was for situations where very high ambient light required a different screen coating ... ie like in a retail store with windows nearby ...

Whereas the vm5 was better choice for home viewing.

my .02

jls.

VR5 comes with a 3-year IN HOME warranty and has a few more features than the VM5 for only a little bit more. I don't think the screen coatings are THAT different between the 2, but correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, I think the VR5 is the consumer version as it comes with the in-home warranty...so it should be great for home usage!

I've been studying and searching for a plasma for quite a while now. After reading this thread I must say that the VR5 seems like the one for me.

I would have called and ordered already had I not read about the stuck pixels. Can anyone give me an idea if this was just a few isolated incidents or did this seem to be a problem. Would the VR5 I would purchase possibly contain newer glass or components that would have been corrected since the stuck pixel models were manufactored?

I've very excited about this NEC. Just out of curiosity does anyone know how the VR5 stacks up againts the new ED Pannys? How many colors does the new 8UK panny display?

Fingercrossed, I wouldn't worry about the pixels one bit. NEC has the best support I have ever dealt with. They sent me a new panel based solely on digital pics I sent them. When that panel had an issue, they sent another within days. They will do everything they can to make sure you are happy with your panel. I would probably assume they have fixed any issue that caused this by now as well (this was March). As for the other request for stadium mode pics, I will maybe try to get to that this weekend and post some.

Fingercrossed, I wouldn't worry about the pixels one bit. NEC has the best support I have ever dealt with. They sent me a new panel based solely on digital pics I sent them. When that panel had an issue, they sent another within days. They will do everything they can to make sure you are happy with your panel. I would probably assume they have fixed any issue that caused this by now as well (this was March). As for the other request for stadium mode pics, I will maybe try to get to that this weekend and post some.
Thanks Tony, I'm glad to hear it. I'd stil like to see this panel in person but I don't know who in my area carries the NEC VR5. I might just order it sight unseen based on what I've read here at AVS.

98GSR,

Here are some pics of the stadium mode. I apologize about the quality, my camera is a bit old, but you can still get the effect of what the stretch mode does to the image. It is actually pretty impressive, as you can see it is not more stretched towards the ends as some other stretch modes do.

...Here are some pics of the stadium mode.

Thanks! This will help in my decision making.

I just purchased the 42VM5 today based on this and other excellent threads on AVS. I actually found it for a GREAT price on Tech4Less.com. They deal with open box/etc items. I called about the VM5 and it's actually an unused unit with the full 1-year manufacturer's warranty. They said that if I had any problems with it in the first 30 days they would pay the return shipping on it! I grabbed the last VM5 they had.

I also got a Chief PDS2095 articulating mount for it from there as well. It comes with the Sony adapter plate, and I'll order the NEC-specific adapter plate from MountsAndMore.com if I'm unable to get the Sony plate working. As many of you know, the Chief PDS articulating mount is pretty pricy if you buy it new, but Tech4Less has them for a great price.

My grand total for all this was well under 2 clams, so I couldn't pass it up! It should be arriving by freight in a few days...

A few things I learned since looking into the 42VR5.

I spoke with a guy at NEC USA. I asked him about whether or not the Pio 424MV is simply a rebadged NEC V*5 series and he said no. He said it's the same unit but the components and software inside are completely different. That would explain the many articles and postings I've read that claim the NEC 42VR5 is superior in color and detail display to the Pio 424MV or Pannys. I've read several sources that claim better image depth and quality of the 42VR5 over many HD plasmas.

The specs of all 3 lead me to believe these claims are accurate. NEC and online merchants selling the NEC 42VR5 claim it can display 68.7 billion colors while the Pio 424MV displays 16.7 million and the Panny PD50U claims up to 8.58 billion. Maybe it's marketing drivel but I tend to believe the specs to some degree. I figure if Panny or Pio could match the specs they wouldn't hesitate to put them out there. Does it translate into a better picture in real life?? I don't know but everything I've read leads me to believe it does.

Another point. Finding an actual NEC to view first-hand is next to impossible. Finding an NEC dealer is very hard unless you live in a major city. There are only a few NEC dealers in a 75 mile radius and they don’t even have retail locations. They’re the type of places that will order what you need and then come out and set up your system for you or build you a home theater. It’s not surprising that there aren’t more people with NEC plasmas or more discussion of them. NEC just has virtually ZERO penetration into the consumer market. At least in my area.

I spoke to a regional distributor of NEC plasmas. I mentioned my concern over the stuck pixel problem some people had a few months ago. He seemed to know what I was speaking about. He mentioned that NEC took care of everyone that had that problem and that there was a period where there were problems in the manufacturing process. He said that it has since been fixed and it isn’t a problem any more.

It appears as of right now that if I purchase the 42VR5 it will be sight-unseen. I’m just going to have to rely on the reviews and experiences of others. While I’m hesitant I can’t say that it won’t be more reliable that viewing one of these babies in one of the mega electronics stores. One plasma looks great in one store and terrible in the next. It seems to be more reliable to take the reviews and opinions of others as a whole and to try and form a picture. For the most part everything I’ve read from forum members and reviewers seems to be very favorable toward the VR5.

About purchasing online versus a local store. If I could see the VR5 in a local store and they were competitive price-wise I would purchase locally. As it is even the local NEC dealers just order it for me and have it delivered to my door, the same as an internet dealer would. I still have to pay $200 shipping charges and tax. Some of the big box retailers will prices match but I certainly don’t think they would let me open the box at their place and text it out for dead pixles, quality, etc. At least if I order online I can have an extension cord ready in the drive way for delivery. Before signing off on the delivery sheet I can test it for dead/stuck pixels, quality, etc. If I’m not happy I won’t accept delivery.

I remember seeing a thread about how to test a plasma in the driveway before accepting delivery a while back. Anyone happen to have that book marked?

Anyway, sorry I don’t have any first hand info about the elusive VR5. I’m probably going to go ahead and order it soon so I pray what I’ve read about this puppy is correct.

…if I order online I can have an extension cord ready in the drive way for delivery. Before signing off on the delivery sheet I can test it for dead/stuck pixels, quality, etc. If I’m not happy I won’t accept delivery.

Please consider obtaining more AVS member plasma delivery experiences before absolutely assuming that you open and test a delivery before signing. It may depend on the delivery service and delivery personnel.

Delivery personnel will generally allow any package be examined for damage before obtaining a signature, but NOT to allow it to be opened before getting a signature. Ok yea, they are also instructed that once it is opened, not to accept it back without new freight. It may depend (are you a good tipper) on how closely the regs are followed.

The point being, don’t assume that you can test. Good luck.

Another thought.

From calling around I discovered there are two models of the VR5. There is the more common model PX-42VR5A and there is also a PX-42VR5HA.

The rep from NEC USA said that it's the same model but that the "H" has something to do with enviromental regulations in Europe. He said it doesn't affect anything and is only to meet certain regulations in Europe. I might normally look upon this a good thing but the poor reviews of the VR5 seem to be mostly from our European friends.

Even NEC's website (http://www.necvisualsystems.com/applicationFiles/productDetails/appl_productDetail.cfm?Product_id=453) for the VR5 uses the new VR5HA model #. It seems to be the latest build of the VR5 but I'm wondering if I would be better off going with the older VR5A instead of the VR5HA?

I just purchased the 42VM5 today based on this and other excellent threads on AVS. I actually found it for a GREAT price on Tech4Less.com.

My grand total for all this was well under 2 clams, so I couldn't pass it up! It should be arriving by freight in a few days...

98-
Congrats. I saw that one too but it looks like I should have called Tech4Less rather than email them. They emailed me this morning that it was no longer on their web site .

Very nice coup! Best of luck with your new PDP. I'll be very interested to hear how well you like it and whether it meets all your expectations. /P :eek:

A few things I learned since looking into the 42VR5.

Another point. Finding an actual NEC to view first-hand is next to impossible. Finding an NEC dealer is very hard unless you live in a major city.

Fingercrossed, PM me where you live, I would be happy to show you mine if you live nearby. Northeast?

Fingercrossed, PM me where you live, I would be happy to show you mine if you live nearby. Northeast?
Thanks Tony that's very kind of you. Unfortunately I'm nowhere near the northeast.

BTW how do you like yours?

BTW how do you like yours?


I LOVE my panel. So much so, that I will be getting another one for the bedroom shortly. My only dilemma is whether or not to wait until the new generations come out. Unforunately, I don't know when that is. There was a post a bit ago about a press release stating they would be coming out with new panels, but it did not say when. I also just got off the phone with NEC and the woman I spoke to told me they would not be releasing new panels before yearend. I don't know what to believe....so if anyone has any other info I would be greatful. I think I may wait unitl CEDIA to see if they announce then. As I think that is where the VR5 was anounced last year.

I LOVE my panel. So much so, that I will be getting another one for the bedroom shortly. My only dilemma is whether or not to wait until the new generations come out.

Tony

It is reassuring to hear how much you like your NEC since, like Fingerscrossed, I have become very interested in this brand.

Was there a specific reason you went with the 42VR5 as opposed to the VM5 model? How well does it handle ambient daylight in the room? Is there an anti-reflective coating like on the VM5, as fingerscrossed said in an earlier post? Do you have your 42VR5 on a stand (in a cabinet or on a table or shelf) or is it hanging on the wall?

Since the VR5 bezel is silver or light grey as opposed to black or dark grey, have you found the light colored bezel to be in any way a distraction when watching TV? Do you have HD or std cable or satellite service and did you have any issues in getting everything to work as you expected? Finally, what kind of improvements would you hope to see in the next generation NEC?

Tony

It is reassuring to hear how much you like your NEC since, like Fingerscrossed, I have become very interested in this brand.

Was there a specific reason you went with the 42VR5 as opposed to the VM5 model? How well does it handle ambient daylight in the room? Is there an anti-reflective coating like on the VM5, as fingerscrossed said in an earlier post? Do you have your 42VR5 on a stand (in a cabinet or on a table or shelf) or is it hanging on the wall?

Since the VR5 bezel is silver or light grey as opposed to black or dark grey, have you found the light colored bezel to be in any way a distraction when watching TV? Do you have HD or std cable or satellite service and did you have any issues in getting everything to work as you expected? Finally, what kind of improvements would you hope to see in the next generation NEC?
Peter,

As you know I don't have the VR5 but from what I've read the VR5 and M5 both have the same anti-reflective coating. The VP is the one with the stronger anti-glare coating for businesses that will display them in bright sunlight, shop windows, etc.

The VR5 also has more access via the remote to picture adjustment functions and inputs while the VM5 doesn't. The VM5 has some features that businesses might use like the ability to use the VM5 in a video wall, use it vertically, etc.

I was definitely looking for a black bezel myself but I've actually read that the lighter colored bezels make the blacks look better. The VR5 also has a 3 year warranty versus the VM5's 1 year warranty.

I wantred the black bezel too but the features and warranty of the VR5 are just too great for me to choose form (black bezel) over function.

Good luck. I hope to order my VR5 soon. I've seen the panny's in many stores and have never been blown away. I hope my research and trust in what I've read about the VR5 is rewarded.