Oppo DV971H FAQ / Brain Dump [Text View] - Page 3

GSB

07-14-05, 03:15 PM

The problem is that the Oppo defaults to having the subtitles OFF, even on discs that normally default to them on. This is most problematic on movies that are partially in (non-subtitled) English and partially in a foreign language where English subtitles should be prompted.

The issue is partially, though not fully, addressed in the new firmware with a subtitle setup option labelled "Auto". When I chose this and tested Kill Bill Vol. 2, the movie played just as it is supposed to, with no English subtitles for the majority of the movie but English subtitles appearing during the Chinese language dialogue of the Pei Mei scene.

However, the "Auto" function is flawed when playing English language movies that are meant to default to no subtitles at all. Unfortunately, "Auto" triggers full English subtitles in these cases, which you must manually shut off.

I leave my Oppo set for subtitles "Off" right now. This can be a real nuisance when watching a movie that you may not realize in advance has some partial foreign language scenes in it.Hello Josh

I tried the "Auto" setting with Hidalgo (brief foreign dialog), and the Oppo defaulted to English subtitles throughout the movie. So results appear inconsistent.

Here's what works for "Hidalgo":
In the Oppo setup menu, set the subtitle option to "OFF". Load the disk, and from the DVD setup menu, set subtitles to "OFF", OR set spoken languages to "ENGLISH". In either case, subtitles appear when they should. But if you load the disk and play without making any setup changes, the Oppo defaults to NO subtitles throughout.

Could you try this with "Kill Bill" and see if this method is consistent? Thanks.

Gary

aoleg

07-14-05, 05:33 PM

Do you get sparklies too? I just got my player and hooked it up with a 6' DVI cable that worked fine in the past with several computers/displays. (Can't use the free one as I accidentally selected the DVI-HDMI cable instead of DVI-DVI. Anyone wanna trade?) Sparklies, lines and flickering as the display (Optoma H31) can't stay synced to the player. Maybe the Oppo has a weak DVI output?

I had to exchange the Oppo for another unit because of green and white
"sparkles" appearing on the screen (using DVI). That used to happen randomly after about an hour of playback. The replacement unit does not have that problem, but I've got magenta "sparkles" once when I turned it on. The fix would be turning the player off and on again.

The "sparkles" never appeared on Panasonic S77.

I attached an image that shows the problem with the first unit.

Pkunk

07-14-05, 06:04 PM

I had to exchange the Oppo for another unit because of green and white
"sparkles" appearing on top of the picture (using DVI). That used to happen randomly after about an hour of playback. The replacement unit does not have that problem, but I've got magenta "sparkles" once when I turned it on. The fix would be turning the player off and on again.

The "sparkles" never appeared on Panasonic S77.

I attached an image that shows the problem with the first unit.

Mine's not that bad. There are sparklies in the picture, but aren't that noticeable outside of the black widescreen borders. It seems to have a much bigger problem just staying synced.

I'm thinking it's some sort of timing issue maybe, since 720p and 1080i are just fine but 480p is messed up.

GSB

07-14-05, 06:22 PM

I had to exchange the Oppo for another unit because of green and white "sparkles" appearing on top of the picture (using DVI). That used to happen randomly after about an hour of playback. The replacement unit does not have that problem, but I've got magenta "sparkles" once when I turned it on. The fix would be turning the player off and on again. The first thing to suspect if you see sparkles, is the cable. How long is your cable? It may be very close to limit as far as signal integrity goes, so some of your equipment might be OK with it, and other equipment may not.

A DVI signal inevitably degrades over distance, ESPECIALLY with cheap cable materials or a badly controlled manufacturing process. The DVI spec specifies a relatively short cable. Through very careful design, some cable manufacturers have been able to fabricate longer lengths without signal integrity issues, but they are generally a lot more expensive.

Gary

Paul Bigelow

07-14-05, 06:48 PM

aoleg,

Whoa! There are sparkles and then there are sparkles! That's almost like snow. I've seen some random DVI sparkles (very tiny - 1 subpixel) on an old Samsung LTM-223W I once had when trying to connect it to a computer. Cables made no difference. When I changed displays the sparkles went away.

Paul

Josh Z

07-14-05, 07:06 PM

Here's what works for "Hidalgo":
In the Oppo setup menu, set the subtitle option to "OFF". Load the disk, and from the DVD setup menu, set subtitles to "OFF", OR set spoken languages to "ENGLISH". In either case, subtitles appear when they should. But if you load the disk and play without making any setup changes, the Oppo defaults to NO subtitles throughout.

Could you try this with "Kill Bill" and see if this method is consistent? Thanks.

I just tested it with Kill Bill V2.

Oppo - Subtitles off.
DVD menu - Manually selected English DTS audio and no subtitles.
Chapter 8 - Plays correctly. No subtitles for English dialogue, English subtitles for Chinese dialogue.

OK, this does seem to work. I think the disc must be authored so the choosing "None" for subtitles actually defaults to this method for translated foreign dialogue. By manually selecting "None", you are commanding the disc to override the player's defaults.

I guess the key here is to always go into the subtitles menu and manually choose your selection even if you want no subtitles.

GSB

07-14-05, 07:30 PM

I guess the key here is to always go into the subtitles menu and manually choose your selection even if you want no subtitles. Yes, for me, that seems to work perfectly every time. Thanks for testing it.

Gary

aoleg

07-15-05, 02:46 AM

The first thing to suspect if you see sparkles, is the cable. How long is your cable? It may be very close to limit as far as signal integrity goes, so some of your equipment might be OK with it, and other equipment may not.

That was the first thing I ruled out. I first connected the default Oppo DVI<>DVI cable, and plugged it into the plasma through a DVI<>HDMI adaptor. When I first saw the sparkles, I thought "OK, maybe it's the cable and/or adaptor", and bought an all new golden-plated DVI<>HDMI cable (1.5m). That made no difference at all, and the player went back.

The replacement unit does not show that problem neither with the supplied cable + adaptor, nor with the DVI<>HDMI cable, so I logically assumed that the first one was, indeed, a defective unit.

A DVI signal inevitably degrades over distance, ESPECIALLY with cheap cable materials or a badly controlled manufacturing process. The DVI spec specifies a relatively short cable. Through very careful design, some cable manufacturers have been able to fabricate longer lengths without signal integrity issues, but they are generally a lot more expensive.

That I understand. However, 1.5m (around 4.5ft) is by no means long enough to degrade signal to such that much. Besides, turning the player off and back on always cleared the "snow" for another hour or so.

Neuromancer

07-15-05, 02:48 AM

GSB,

I have had very good luck with the 10m monoprice DVI cables. I am one of those "anti-Monster" type of users.

aoleg,

I have never seen sparkling like that before, I would be very interested in finding out what the problem was.

aoleg

07-15-05, 02:58 AM

I just tested it with Kill Bill V2.

Oppo - Subtitles off.
DVD menu - Manually selected English DTS audio and no subtitles.
Chapter 8 - Plays correctly. No subtitles for English dialogue, English subtitles for Chinese dialogue.

Recently, I was watching "Alien Quadrilogy". The Oppo defaults to have "SPECIAL EDITION" mark ON (the mark appears in the bottom-right corner of the movie when an added or remastered scene is played), and, on "Alien3" (or "2?"), it defaults to show subtitles that one can not turn off by regular means (e.g. by pressing the "Subtitle" button or disabling subtitles from the DVD menu). I had to stop the disk, set Subtitles to "Auto" in the Oppo setup, then re-select "Off", and only than I could play the movie w/o subtitles.

Needless to say, my Panasonic S77 was able to play the movie properly. I am comparing the Oppo vs. S77 over and over, and I always found that S77 is a much more solid offering. Oppo, on the other hand, supports PAL<>NTSC, and it is region-free. If only Panasonic stopped playing the studios' "copyright protection" games...

I have the player for over two months now. Its video quality is excellent, and media support is above all competition. But those LITTLE THINGS get sooo annolying at times...

aoleg

07-15-05, 03:00 AM

I have never seen sparkling like that before, I would be very interested in finding out what the problem was.

I guess we'll never know. The retailer agreed that it probably was a defective unit. I would bet on a dead capacitor somewhere in the circuits.

GSB

07-15-05, 03:11 AM

That was the first thing I ruled out. I first connected the default Oppo DVI<>DVI cable, and plugged it into the plasma through a DVI<>HDMI adaptor... The replacement unit does not show that problem neither with the supplied cable + adaptor, nor with the DVI<>HDMI cable, so I logically assumed that the first one was, indeed, a defective unit.Perfectly sound deductions. I misunderstood your initial post, thinking your second unit was doing the same thing (with magenta sparkles), but I see that it only occurred once.

Gary

MikVa

07-15-05, 06:54 AM

GSB,

>So MikVa, deus-ex, once you've "fixed" the PAL brightness (returned it to 0 after adjustment), >is the PAL brightness level the same as NTSC brightness level?

Yes, according to testing with DVE (PAL-version) it is so.

I use brightness value -15 with Sanyo Z2 for getting BTB-bar (third, darkest bar on DVE's "brightness setup-screen") barely visible after power-on. After "OPPO's brightness 0->1->0"-trick correct value for Z2 is -4. When I switched OPPO to NTSC mode, value -4 on Z2 and 0 on OPPO gives correct brightness level (either directly after power on or after "0->1->0"-trick).

Paul Bigelow

07-15-05, 09:49 AM

Fix/Wishlist updated slightly.

Paul

deus-ex

07-15-05, 09:50 AM

I think I raise a new bug last evening.

It may be normal, but Oppo is my fourth player and the only one doing so ...

While watching a movie, turn off you receiver !
My Oppo is only connected through SPdif.

The image went in crazyness ! no sync at all, a mess of mixed pixels, you can't even tell it is an image at all.

My "HD-friend" coming this evening, will help me tuning the Sony 1292 to the top (Scheimpflug of my ass !!! ) and will tell me what he thinks of the Oppo.

Testing LOTR fellowship ... yesterday .. very late ... amazed me !!!
The image is VERRRRRY GOOOD (Hattori Hanzo style)

Josh Z

07-15-05, 01:25 PM

Recently, I was watching "Alien Quadrilogy". The Oppo defaults to have "SPECIAL EDITION" mark ON (the mark appears in the bottom-right corner of the movie when an added or remastered scene is played),

In the Oppo's setup menu, did you change the Angle Mark setting to "Off"?

and, on "Alien3" (or "2?"), it defaults to show subtitles that one can not turn off by regular means (e.g. by pressing the "Subtitle" button or disabling subtitles from the DVD menu). I had to stop the disk, set Subtitles to "Auto" in the Oppo setup, then re-select "Off", and only than I could play the movie w/o subtitles.

The Alien3 disc is mastered intentionally to display English subtitles during some of the newly added footage. When constructing the extended edition of the movie, it was discovered that many of the on-set dialogue recordings have very poor audio. Normally, the actors would re-dub their lines in post-production, but that was never done for these scenes because they were cut from the film early on.

aoleg

07-15-05, 04:37 PM

In the Oppo's setup menu, did you change the Angle Mark setting to "Off"?

The Angle mark is off on my Oppo. The "SPECIAL EDITION" mark can be disabled on the DVD itself. I had to, however, enable it first, and THEN disable, as it would not work otherwise.

The Alien3 disc is mastered intentionally to display English subtitles during some of the newly added footage. When constructing the extended edition of the movie, it was discovered that many of the on-set dialogue recordings have very poor audio. Normally, the actors would re-dub their lines in post-production, but that was never done for these scenes because they were cut from the film early on.

Yes, I saw this warning. However, the Oppo does not work as intended. It is my understanding that it only has to show subtitles sometimes, only during certain scenes. The Oppo either displayed subtitles all the time (and that was quite difficult to disable!), or displayed no subtitles at all.

I have two DVD players, the other one being Panasonic S77, and I scanned through the movie in S77. The S77 displayed subtitles the way they were intended to be.

GSB

07-15-05, 05:20 PM

After "OPPO's brightness 0->1->0"-trick correct value for Z2 is -4. When I switched OPPO to NTSC mode, value -4 on Z2 and 0 on OPPO gives correct brightness level (either directly after power on or after "0->1->0"-trick). Thanks MikVa, that clarifies the problem then...

It's not a difference between PAL/NTSC brightness, it's PAL brightness being incorrectly initialized when turning the player on. We'll edit the defect list.

Gary

BenDover

07-15-05, 05:52 PM

eclou

07-15-05, 06:24 PM

I just got my unit yesterday and installed it last night. Haven't spent too much time with it yet, but what I did notice was when I switch resolution it "very quickly" displays on the screen...like maybe a second.

BTW, I did not yet upgrade the firmware but I am curious to see what firmware level this unit is at before I upgrade to the latest. How does one determine the current firmware version?

Your unit should have the latest FW. I checked mine (got it Wednesday) and it is the latest version plus a "B" on the end. The firmware check procedure is on the first page here and on the Oppo website under firmware.

Rijax

07-15-05, 06:37 PM

How does one determine the current firmware version? Do the following to find out the firmware version:
• Press Setup on the remote controller
• Enter 9210 on the remote controller
• A menu will pop up to show the firmware version of the OPPO player.

Paul Bigelow

07-15-05, 06:40 PM

Defect list edited.

Paul

Josh Z

07-15-05, 11:22 PM

The Angle mark is off on my Oppo. The "SPECIAL EDITION" mark can be disabled on the DVD itself. I had to, however, enable it first, and THEN disable, as it would not work otherwise.

Was this on the first "Alien" or one of the sequels? Do you have a time code to reference? I'll check my copy.

aoleg

07-16-05, 05:35 AM

Was this on the first "Alien" or one of the sequels? Do you have a time code to reference? I'll check my copy.

That was the special edition version of the "Aliens" from the "Quadrilogy" set. The "SPECIAL EDITION" mark appears on the bottom-right during the added footage. I don't recall seeing this mark on the first movie ("Alien").

Josh Z

07-16-05, 11:17 AM

That was the special edition version of the "Aliens" from the "Quadrilogy" set. The "SPECIAL EDITION" mark appears on the bottom-right during the added footage. I don't recall seeing this mark on the first movie ("Alien").

Hmmm... I actually only have the 2-disc SEs of the 1st and 4th movies, and imported the DTS editions of the middle two from Japan. I can't check Aliens, because the Japanese copy only contains the longer cut of the film (no seamless branching options). Can you recheck the 1st and 4th movies to see if it happens in either of them?

mcbuckeye

07-16-05, 12:38 PM

I watched Jaws 30th Anniversary Edition last night on the Oppo. No lip sync problems and for a 30+ year old movie, the picture was *awesome*.

Aside from the occasional lip-sync issues I still get on other DVDs, this player is amazing for its price.

aoleg

07-16-05, 08:32 PM

Hmmm... I actually only have the 2-disc SEs of the 1st and 4th movies, and imported the DTS editions of the middle two from Japan. I can't check Aliens, because the Japanese copy only contains the longer cut of the film (no seamless branching options). Can you recheck the 1st and 4th movies to see if it happens in either of them?

Checked the "Alien". At 00:12:38, the "DIRECTOR'S CUT" appears on the bottom-right. "Angle mark" is OFF in the Oppo setup.

This "DIRECTOR'S CUT" mark disappears when I explicitly disable it from the DVD's menu.

I checked the same scene with Panasonic S77, and there appears no "DIRECTOR'S CUT" mark.

Josh Z

07-16-05, 11:28 PM

Checked the "Alien". At 00:12:38, the "DIRECTOR'S CUT" appears on the bottom-right. "Angle mark" is OFF in the Oppo setup.

This "DIRECTOR'S CUT" mark disappears when I explicitly disable it from the DVD's menu.

I checked the same scene with Panasonic S77, and there appears no "DIRECTOR'S CUT" mark.

You're right. I get it too. I checked on my Denon 1600 and the default does not show anything.

I've just emailed Oppo. Good catch.

Person99

07-16-05, 11:56 PM

theroys88

07-17-05, 02:23 AM

Hey,
I think that is wrong. I bought a Yamakawa 275 progressive scan player for the kids room for 30 bucks on Ecost and for fun tried it out first on my Hdtv and on the progressive mode I saw alot of video noise and a lousy progressive pic. Switched it to interlaced through the S-video output and all was clear. Mediatek chips are just lousy deinterlacer and I suppose on that output there is poor shielding and cheap capacitors. Probably the same on the Oppo.
Seems the energy was spent on the DVI side.

videoaddikt

07-17-05, 09:41 AM

Last night were watching Along Came Polly, and I immediately broke out in a grin! Wow, this picture looks great! Color and sharpness were simply superb!
I never expected this film (not one of Ben Stiller's greatest, but not that bad), to really make the Oppo shine. About as close to HD without being there. Very little detectable grain and even the black level looked good. Not one of my display's strong points.
The audio in DTS was great also.

BenDover

07-17-05, 10:37 AM

GFletch

07-17-05, 11:20 AM

Hi all, I just tried the Oppo 480i to my Lumagen scaler. Has some of the worst video noise I've ever seen. I contacted Oppo about this and they claimed that it is a common problem on all Mediatek players and only recommend using the DVI out. Does anyone know if this really is a problem with all Mediatek players?

Man, that doesn't sound right to me either. I have used a couple Mediatek players, and neither of them had any noise that I could detect. The Daewoo 8100N uses Mediatek and it looks very good. De-interlacing with Mediatek chips can be good also, but I suspect it boils down to manufacturer's implementation.

Bob4action

07-17-05, 12:51 PM

Greetings,
In using the 2x zoom function to go to a full screen display on my Samsung 5674 I thought I noticed a bit of jaggedness and shimmering on "Beyond the Sea". The Sammy is set to expand mode and the Oppo is set to wide mode.
I've read over the first post in this thread and can't tell if this is an issue that can be addressed or if it is just the nature of the zoom function in general. Can anyone comment on the nature of the Oppo pq when using the zoom function with the 6/29 firmware?
b.

QuantumCosmos

07-17-05, 03:02 PM

I have a v880 about 1 year old now but recently starting to freeze up playing dvds from time to time. I was one of the lucky ones that got a stable player, but now it's starting to fail on me. I really loved the display on my BenQ 8700, and its ability to play PAL and multiregion disks (a big requirement for me) flawslessly (no audio synch problems or shimmering) with amazing 1080i PQ.

Now that this player is acting up -- should I get an Oppo? :confused: Will I be able to play PAL and multiregion without any problems, and have slightly better PQ? Are there any trade-offs? I use strictly DVI, so component is a non-issue. I also buy a lot of DVDs from other countries (both PAL and NTSC). I tried to do as much research on this forum on comparisons to a Momitsu v880, but need the opion of the people who have posted on this thread since some have upgraded from the Momitsu to the Oppo.

Thanks! :)

jriihi

07-17-05, 03:28 PM

Can anyone comment on the nature of the Oppo pq when using the zoom function with the 6/29 firmware?

Probably not since most ppl dont use zoom at all and its reported to be not so good quality on oppo.

CJayB

07-17-05, 03:52 PM

QuantumCosmos,

The Oppo does a great job of playing PAL titles and converting to NTSC and is easily made region free. I have a large number of PAL titles.

I upgraded from the V880 to the Oppo and there is for me no comparison when using DVI, the Oppo is superior in nearly every way, with a more detailed and much less noisy picture than the Momitsu. Only the occasional audio sync issue is still a major concern for many. I've had a couple problems with audio sync myself but that was fixed by simply pausing the film and restarting. Others though are reporting the audio sync issue is too annoying to justify the purchase of the Oppo.

Right now there is nothing else out there that can compare to the Oppo for PAL use and being region free at an affordable price. It's a nice upgrade from the Momitsu. I think the audio problem is likely to be fixed by Oppo, this appears to be their number one concern to be handled with the next firmware release. Oppo seems to be more dedicated to customer satisfaction than anyone else.

Josh Z

07-17-05, 05:34 PM

In using the 2x zoom function to go to a full screen display on my Samsung 5674 I thought I noticed a bit of jaggedness and shimmering on "Beyond the Sea". The Sammy is set to expand mode and the Oppo is set to wide mode.

Beyond the Sea is an anamorphic disc. Why would you be using the zoom mode?

Paul Bigelow

07-17-05, 07:05 PM

Probably does not want the "black bars".

Paul

QuantumCosmos

07-17-05, 07:59 PM

Thanks CJayB! Just went on line to extremephono and purchase the Oppo. I also purchased my v880 frmo them. Hopefully the Oppo unit I get works like a charm!

Bob4action

07-17-05, 08:47 PM

Greetings Paul,
You are correct, I used the zoom function to experiment with getting rid of the black letter box bars. Since you are the Jedi Master of the Oppo unit, what would you suggest?
b.

Dave Mack

07-17-05, 09:39 PM

Person99

07-17-05, 09:52 PM

The Faroudja processing is applied only to the DVI port, I believe.

You are correct. The Mediatek chips can deinterlace to my knowledge, but the Oppo only sends 480i out component, the the video noise isn't because of the Mediatek or Faroudja deinterlacing. The DVI port is noise free, but I'm not able to get better than 480p through my DVI-D to VGA converter for some reason.

Dave

Ja Phule

07-17-05, 09:55 PM

This player outputs PAL natively, I read. But secrets said it couldn't pass the 2/2 pulldown test. Wouls that mean combing? I am interested in this player because I might get the Optoma h57 (matterhorn chip) and I have a bunch of PAL DVDs that I'd finally like to see in all their full res. glory, not converted to NTSC.
Anyone watching native PAl..? How is it?

Thanks, d

I watched some of "City of God" earlier in PAL 576p. Looked great. Nothing bad about the picture that I noticed. I'm not sure how not having 2:2 would affect the image when I was watching this movie.

Bob4action

07-17-05, 10:20 PM

Dave Mack

07-17-05, 10:20 PM

Thanks, ja

I remember someone metioning combing with PAL with the oppo. I have a bunch of movies and R2 Buffy sets. :) d

CJayB

07-17-05, 10:32 PM

Thanks, ja

I remember someone metioning combing with PAL with the oppo. I have a bunch of movies and R2 Buffy sets. :) d

I've only watched a few minutes of my R2 Buffy sets on the Oppo, but didn't notice any combing. Someone else mentioned previously that generally the lack of 2/2 pulldown affects mostly older PAL titles and only a small percentage of titles. I'll check out some more R2 Buffy tonight and report back if I see anything nasty. I do output 576p from my Oppo, but then convert to NTSC using an iScan HD video processor.

nadeama

07-18-05, 02:49 AM

Martin,
Have you tested any other video sources at 720p/1080i other than the Oppo? It may be that your display has overscan for those resolutions but not at 480p.

Well, you're absolutely right of course! Actually, I now see that my display is not really producing more overscan, but rather panning the image a little more to the left with 720p and 1080i sources. Is there an idiot-proff way of adjusting that on a direct view set?

As for the other problems I had mentioned in my previous post:

"- At 1080i, the image "flickers" for a fraction of a second once in a while (it usually happens a few times during a 2-hour length movie). It's a bit hard to describe, but I think "flicker" is the best word for it. I don't believe this occurs at 720p, but my tests at that resolution have been very limited and I have to test a lot more at 720p and 480p."

I haven't been able to reproduce this at 1080i with a second Oppo (which I'd ordered for my father) that I tested on my system. So I guess my player is defective.

On the other hand, the second problem:

"- At 1080i, PAL-NTSC conversion skips a bit sometimes. This is different from the flickering problem described above and looks more like the video is skipping a frame or two once in a while. It's rather subtle, but noticeable. The frequency of this problem varies; I can see it only a few times during a movie and then several times during another. Again, I believe this may not be happening at 720p, but I have to test a lot more."

I have checked now with both players, and this is happening at all resolutions on both machines, so I guess it's a problem with the Oppo in general. It's ironic because I first got the Oppo as a region-free player to replace another machine that was having the exact same problem (although much worse). I admit it's kind of subtle, but yesterday even my girlfriend (who can't see the difference in PQ between my old standard RCA set and a HD set!), noticed it at one point.

Hasn't anyone else noticed this "skipping" when doing PAL-NTSC conversion?

Ja Phule

07-18-05, 03:52 AM

Martin,
Most tvs have some sort of service menu you can access on the set by pressing a code on your remote. I'm not too familiar on how to do that but you can try the directview display forum for that.

I notice a slight "shake" at 1080i on my display. Most people seem to prefer 480p or 720p over 1080i with the Oppo, so I'm not too worried about it.

Is your display capable of outputting PAL format? Many displays support PAL nowadays, so PAL to NTSC conversion isn't really needed. I haven't tested PAL to NTSC with my display (don't need to), but I'm also watching it at 576p.

nadeama

07-18-05, 04:41 AM

Hi Ja Phule,

Yes, I've asked on another forum about how to go in the service menu to fix this. I don't want to try this without having some clear instructions, because you can apparently mess things up pretty bad in the service menu if you don't know what you're doing.

I've asked Oppo about the slight "shake" that you're talking about, and they told me it's just the result of interlacing at 1080i. This doesn't bother me really, because I see it only on the Oppo logo, I don't notice it on moving images.

The problem I'm talking about with the image "flickering" at 1080i is different. Maybe flicker is not the right word. It's kind of like the image "jumps" for a fraction of a second once in a while. It's a bit hard to describe, but I'd say it's the video equivalent of crackles and pops in audio material. :-) I have not seen it while testing my father's player over the weekend (I must have watched 3 or 4 titles), so I'm assuming that my player is probably defective. I'll write to Oppo about it later this week.

Unfortunately, my tv set doesn't accept PAL input, so I have to do the PAL-NTSC conversion. I do have a Malata DVP-520 player which can do this and doesn't have the problem with skipping that the Oppo has (although I've not used the Malata very much, I haven't seen the problem when I did use it), but the Oppo's PQ is so much better that I would have liked to use it pretty much exclusively with my PAL titles. But the skipping annoys me a little, so I might have to go for the Malata when watching PAL titles.

And I'm still curious to know if anybody else can see this skipping... :-)

deus-ex

07-18-05, 07:35 AM

Greetings again,
After my last post above I sat down to watch a movie and apparently my Oppo appears to have gotten sick over night or has suffered a stroke.
It was working perfectly yesterday, but this evening it is not recognizing most of the commands from the remote.
The Oppo will power up, the drawer will open and a disk will start to play, but most of the setup function buttons will not operate, and several of those that do are not working in their specified function.
I have unplugged the unit and re-powered it up but get the same response. I had successfully upgraded to the 6/29 firmware about 3 weeks ago and have had no problems until now.
If anyone has any suggestions other than to contact Oppo, which I will do tomorrow, I'd appreciate the reply.
b.I think the x2 zoom on an anamorphic transfer made him sick as even the idea of doing so made me sick.
Don't expect it to allow this gross concept anymore.

just joking, but please ... stop doing this.

My Oppo happened to react that way some times, but it is more like a lag, leave it alone for some 15 secs and it will reply instantly after that.

I plugged my oppo directly on the 220v ... great ! it works !
I also feed the needed voltage in my DVI transcoder from an external source, freeing the oppo to do so, It has very light voltage DVI output I think because the picture was jumping every time I pressed a key on the remote, and now it is gone !
Picture is Stable, and really good !!!

Anyone for my bug ?
I think I raise a new bug last evening.

It may be normal, but Oppo is my fourth player and the only one doing so ...

While watching a movie, turn off you receiver !
My Oppo is only connected through SPdif.

The image went in crazyness ! no sync at all, a mess of mixed pixels, you can't even tell it is an image at all.

ps: Zoom is only for near blind people. ;)

Bob4action

07-18-05, 08:12 AM

Greetings,
Apparently I have sickened people on 2 continents with my use of the zoom function. I was only experimenting to see how to get past the letterbox bars.
However, the Oppo has not rebounded and is still down for the count after being unplugged overnight. It is on life support and only responds to basic commands. I'm afraid I might have killed it. Who knew?
b.

cologne

07-18-05, 10:08 AM

I am about to pull the trigger for the Oppo but now and then I read about the 2-2 cadence failure for PAL DVD's. As I live in Europe and most if not all of the DVD's I am buying/renting are Region 2, could someone explain to me how this 2-2 cadence failure affects the player and therefore my watching experience??? Any of the European friends out there having any bad experience with this issue please?

Thxs!

Paul Bigelow

07-18-05, 10:10 AM

Bob,

The zoom function on the Oppo is not particualy high quality (the Momitsu zoom is much better) and introduces jagged lines and other artifacts. To my eyes, the Oppo zoom appears to work a bit better with video-based material.

Paul

Josh Z

07-18-05, 10:19 AM

The Oppo will power up, the drawer will open and a disk will start to play, but most of the setup function buttons will not operate, and several of those that do are not working in their specified function.

Some of the setup options are disabled when a disc is playing. I assume you also tried to access them without a disc in the player? Which options are not working in their specified function?

(And the black bars are not your enemy. Learn to live with them, and you will be happier in the long run.)

Bob4action

07-18-05, 10:54 AM

Greetings Josh,
I am aware of the Oppo not responding to certain functions while playing a disk. My problem is that it also deosn't respond when there is no disk, like accessing the set up menu. None of the navigation functions work, or pause, or the dreaded zoom, etc...
b.

jriihi

07-18-05, 10:56 AM

I am about to pull the trigger for the Oppo but now and then I read about the 2-2 cadence failure for PAL DVD's.

It might affect you or might not. I live in europe too but still get great picture out from oppo :)

Bob4action

07-18-05, 01:25 PM

Greetings,
An update on my partially paralysed Oppo.
I just got off the phone with Oppo customer service. I might add that I dialed the main number, hit the prompt for customer service, and a live person picked up the phone on the third ring. No waiting on hold for an eternity, etc.
He had me press the power button on the unit itself for 3 seconds to reset for the old remote and the problem was resolved. It was interesting to note, however, that I have never touched the power button, or had a problem with the remote before the other night since the firmware update.
Since I live by myself with my cat, I'm pretty sure that neither one of us messed around with it, but who knows. Maybe the cat didn't like the 2x zoom either.
The Oppo seems to be working again, so go figure. Bravo Oppo on the customer service.
b.

mjolson

07-18-05, 01:32 PM

FWIW, the zoom on the comparable Panny S77 is REALLY bad. I'd be surprised if the Oppo was any worse. The zoom on my display (H31), in contrast, is sharp as a tack. I'm really surprised these players can't do a better job.

GSB

07-18-05, 05:04 PM

I am about to pull the trigger for the Oppo but now and then I read about the 2-2 cadence failure for PAL DVD's. Just to be clear, its not a failure... 2-2 Cadence is simply not supported. Some have indicated that it MIGHT be supported in a later firmware update.

Gary

GSB

07-18-05, 05:18 PM

Hi all, I just tried the Oppo 480i to my Lumagen scaler. Has some of the worst video noise I've ever seen. I contacted Oppo about this and they claimed that it is a common problem on all Mediatek players and only recommend using the DVI out. Does anyone know if this really is a problem with all Mediatek players? This doesn't sound right. In my setup, the Oppo's 480i component connection has less noise than any of my other players. What kind of noise artifacts are you seeing, and what player are you comparing it to?

Gary

cnparton

07-18-05, 10:45 PM

i am also having issues with my white remote it won't work properly, 4 days after i upgraded it goes nuts . pushing the power button on the player does not help
anybody else having this problem

Paul Bigelow

07-18-05, 11:20 PM

cnparton,

Was the power button pressed for three seconds straight?

Paul

cnparton

07-19-05, 12:23 AM

i don't know but with fiddle farting around (holding the stop button 3 sec) it popped up old rc on screen so now it works

Paul Bigelow

07-19-05, 04:59 PM

cnparton,

Good work! I have the old remote and haven't seen a problem with it yet.

Paul

Neuromancer

07-21-05, 03:02 AM

If, for whatever reason, your remote stops working, or works improperly, Oppo included a IR reset. Just hold the stop button for 3 seconds, and then release. For best results, remove any disc inside the player, wait for the "no disc" display window, and then do the IR reset. "New RC" is for the new black/silver unit, whereas "Old RC" is for the glow in the dark silver remote.

paul623

07-21-05, 04:26 AM

This appears to be an HDMI version of the oppo just about to come out in the UK!

http://www.unbeatable.co.uk/CatalogueItem_25231.html

Paul

Ja Phule

07-21-05, 10:17 AM

This appears to be an HDMI version of the oppo just about to come out in the UK!

http://www.unbeatable.co.uk/CatalogueItem_25231.html

Paul

Looks like it uses the same loader as the Oppo. I've seen that loader in quite a few dvd players out now. Other than that, I see no indication it could be an Oppo. The Geic player is similar also.

https://www2.setssl.com/~hivizone/dvdplayer/gk3288/gk3288.htm

BenDover

07-21-05, 10:33 AM

Looks like it uses the same loader as the Oppo. I've seen that loader in quite a few dvd players out now. Other than that, I see no indication it could be an Oppo. The Geic player is similar also.

https://www2.setssl.com/~hivizone/dvdplayer/gk3288/gk3288.htm

neither of those has Faroudja...i don't get it...

GFletch

07-21-05, 10:57 AM

neither of those has Faroudja...i don't get it...

Which may be a good thing. ;) Actually, I've been curious to see how that MT chip does with scaling. If it's set up right it should be excellent. The Oppo could have been configured to go without the 2310 and might have saved a lot of headaches.

paul623

07-21-05, 03:27 PM

paul623

07-21-05, 03:28 PM

neither of those has Faroudja...i don't get it...

How do we know that the Tosh does not have Faroudja... ?
paul

Ja Phule

07-21-05, 03:57 PM

How do we know that the Tosh does not have Faroudja... ?
paul

How do we know that it does?

GFletch

07-21-05, 04:16 PM

Well if it does, they're not going out of their way to let anyone know. :) It doesn't have any logos giving away its secrets. Just my opinion of course, but I doubt it. The MT FE series, from what I've read, should be more than capable to do both jobs. It would be satisfying to me, in a way, to hear it kicks F's ass, frankly. It's time for a new Sheriff in this town.

WilliamG

07-21-05, 04:20 PM

rwestley

07-21-05, 04:21 PM

I just discover this info on a Winbase player that looks just like the Toshiba. Winbase is the parent company of Oppo and I guess Toshiba is buying an OEM version from them.

No information on which chip is being used. I doubt if Toshiba will be using the Faroudja chip in this low end player.

http://www.globalsources.com/si/6008807066462/ProductDetail/Home-DVD/product_id-8836087810/action-GetProduct.htm

GSB

07-21-05, 04:42 PM

Tempted to pick one of these up. With the latest firmware, how is the macroblocking on a plasma? I'm using a Panasonic 42" ED 42PD25UP and I'm curious. I returned the Zenith 318 and the Panasonic S97 for horrible macroblocking issues Well, I'm sorry to say that if your display is affected by macroblocking from the Panny and the Zenith, the Oppo will be no different. The Oppo is also a Faroudja player - and macroblocking is a Faroudja issue.

Gary

htpcfan

07-21-05, 04:57 PM

Well, I'm sorry to say that if your display is affected by macroblocking from the Panny and the Zenith, the Oppo will be no different. The Oppo is also a Faroudja player - and macroblocking is a Faroudja issue.
Basically the Faroudja DCDi chip is serously flawed.

I am aware that some people like to use smoke and mirrors to try to make this into some magic player-display interaction, and surely some displays show it more than others, but the bottom line is that if you buy a player with a Faroudja DCDi chip you will have macroblocking enhancements. The display does not make it go away, it's there, in the signal. :)

theroys88

07-21-05, 05:46 PM

htpcfan

07-21-05, 06:03 PM

Winbase electronics(BBK electronics) is actually the company that makes the Oppo and rebadges it for Oppo. They also make many players for other companies around the world.
Remember that 7 out of 8 players are made in China by these kind of companies. If you call any of the major players and ask them who makes their player they will not say.
So are they doing any development at Oppo at all? :confused:

I mean look at this picture called Headquarters3, doen't that suggest that that is in Mountain View?
http://www.oppodigital.com/images/OPPO-Headquarter3.jpg

Furthermore they claim to have 3 state of the art factories in China:

Quote from the Oppo website:
"OPPO is committed to delivering products of high-quality and value, using only proven, premium components. OPPO's three state-of-the-art factories in China are all ISO 9001 certified and TQM is implemented in every aspect of operations. Coupled with fast and friendly stateside service and support, OPPO brings unprecedented innovation, quality and value to you."

videoaddikt

07-21-05, 06:40 PM

So are they doing any development at Oppo at all? :confused:

I mean look at this picture called Headquarters3, doen't that suggest that that is in Mountain View?
http://www.oppodigital.com/images/OPPO-Headquarter3.jpg

Furthermore they claim to have 3 state of the art factories in China:

Quote from the Oppo website:
"OPPO is committed to delivering products of high-quality and value, using only proven, premium components. OPPO's three state-of-the-art factories in China are all ISO 9001 certified and TQM is implemented in every aspect of operations. Coupled with fast and friendly stateside service and support, OPPO brings unprecedented innovation, quality and value to you."

Hmmmm. I don't know...could be Sunnyvale too.... :D

AlieniceT

07-21-05, 06:49 PM

This appears to be an HDMI version of the oppo just about to come out in the UK!

http://www.unbeatable.co.uk/CatalogueItem_25231.html

Paul

Yep, it's slim and it's silver.... Gotta be the new Oppo! :D

Birchwood

07-22-05, 12:25 PM

omenII

07-22-05, 12:38 PM

The Toshiba SD-350/450e's are OEM'd Orion manufactured players and are internally identical to the Samsung HD850/950's. It uses the Zoran 778 all-in-one solution for scaling and deinterlacing, which has been confirmed by an Australian member who opened their player up to check http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219369

Damian.

BenDover

07-22-05, 03:48 PM

I was thinking of requesting one of the new black remotes from oppo. I'd like to here from anyone who previously used the white/grey one but has switched to the black version.

......I have fat fingers....

All I have is the black remote and have never seen the "old" remote. As far as remotes go, it sucks, but then I use my Harmony for everything.

I'm still trying to determine whether I am going to keep this player or not. I was trying to digest the "issues" in post 1 but not really sure how/if they affect me.

The only one I can defintely say would affect me if i were to experience it would be the lip sync problem. That would be unacceptable to me. Since this seems to be a random/non-repeatable issue, I guess I have to do a lot of viewing of some DVDs from my collection, however, I have not had a single moment's time to do so since I installed last week.

videoaddikt

07-22-05, 06:28 PM

All I have is the black remote and have never seen the "old" remote. As far as remotes go, it sucks, but then I use my Harmony for everything.

Same here. I would not recommend Oppo=Digital go into the remote control business anytime soon! :p

AlieniceT

07-22-05, 06:46 PM

The only one I can defintely say would affect me if i were to experience it would be the lip sync problem. That would be unacceptable to me. Since this seems to be a random/non-repeatable issue, I guess I have to do a lot of viewing of some DVDs from my collection, however, I have not had a single moment's time to do so since I installed last week.

As long as you do not have a $2800 Denon receiver like me, you should not experience the lip-synch issue. My politically incorrect suggestion that Oppo lip synch issues exist in my system was quickly shredded to pulp by the Oppo technicians here at AVS. It's my receiver, my sight and hearing need calibrated, my display is retarded....and so on. :rolleyes:

My suggestion to you, BenDover: Decide for yourself. But if you do experience any type of lip synch issue that disturbs you, just return the Oppo and for God's sake don't mention it on AVS. :p

GSB

07-22-05, 07:06 PM

As long as you do not have a $2800 Denon receiver like me, you should not experience the lip-synch issue. My politically incorrect suggestion that Oppo lip synch issues exist in my system was quickly shredded to pulp by the Oppo technicians here at AVS. It's my receiver, my sight and hearing need calibrated, my display is retarded....and so on.

My suggestion to you, BenDover: Decide for yourself. But if you do experience any type of lip synch issue that disturbs you, just return the Oppo and for God's sake don't mention it on AVS. :p "Bubba Slo-step", you appear to be very highly strung. You've come into the Oppo threads swinging hard.

The lip-sync problem has been mentioned so many times, we're getting tired of hearing it. WE KNOW it exists! Just take a look at the Defect List in the first post. Lip-sync and EVERY other defect is listed there for all to see. If those defects bother you, you have two choices: Don't buy the Oppo, or wait for a fix. What's the use of aggressively trashing the player over and over again?

The first defect list was compiled way back in January, shortly after the player was first released, and lip-sync was on it right from the beginning. Since Oppo has fixed the more pressing issues, they have now given lip-sync the highest priority, and they've already made a first attempt at correcting it.

This is an excellent player for the money, but it does have a few problems, just like every other player (even at $3500). At least Oppo is actively fixing them.

Gary

BenDover

07-22-05, 07:41 PM

Gary,

I didn't mean to revive a dead horse :)

What has the lip sync problem been attributed to? I presume it must be firmware related if it can be fixed via upgrades.

I agree that this appears to be a great player for the money. PQ is as good or almost as good as my Denon 3910, at least on a few titles that I had a chance to run through some scenes with.

Obviously, with such a high rating on "secrets", the Oppo is doing something right.

BenDover

07-22-05, 07:43 PM

yarrumc

07-22-05, 07:56 PM

GSB

07-22-05, 08:04 PM

What has the lip sync problem been attributed to? I presume it must be firmware related if it can be fixed via upgrades.Apart from lip-sync errors commonly found IN THE SOURCE MATERIAL, this issue is a VIDEO delay problem - particularly with the Faroudja processor.

All upconversion solutions have a large amount of video processing to do, so the video may lag the audio by a small amount. However, a bug in the Genesis/Faroudja FLI 2310 deinterlacer/scaler chip causes a really bad, intermittent, and variable video delay. Nearly every brand of TV and DVD player that has used the Faroudja chip, has suffered with audio sync issues (including Denon). It seems to be a buffering issue in Faroudja's default application.

Many manufacturers (including Denon, Panasonic and Samsung) have worked with Faroudja to correct the issue in their products, and it seems to involve some compromises, one of which, is a small constant delay, that can be compensated for by audio delay circuits in the player.

Gary

AlieniceT

07-22-05, 08:31 PM

"Bubba Slo-step" appears to be very highly strung. You've come into the Oppo threads swinging hard.

Lip-sync has been mentioned so many times, we're getting tired of hearing it. WE KNOW it exists! Just take a look at the Defect List in the first post. Lip-sync and EVERY other defect is listed there for all to see. If those defects bother you, you have two choices: Don't buy the Oppo, or wait for a fix. What's the use of aggressively trashing the player over and over?

This is an excellent player for the money, but it has its share of problems, just like every other player (even at $3500). At least Oppo is actively fixing them.

Gary

I have tried to offer balance to the occasionally zealous championing of this player to prospective buyers who don't want to wait for firmwares or make RMA's a part of their life. It seems many of the posters on AVS spend their entire life buying and returning DVD players as a hobby. No problem in my book. I have for the most part offered a caution to those who just want a quality player and may be put off by lip synch problems. They deserve to know that there are owners of the Oppo for whom this is or was a big downer.

Please tell me that you are not tired of hearing about macroblocking. :) For me, the macroblocking is less of a problem than lip synch because I have calibrated displays that only accentuate MB when it is exaggerated by a poorly authored disc. Are we also throwing rocks at the MBE bashers? From my experience, not as much as with the lip synch "thing" because some of the other manufacturers have a better handle on the audio-video synch when the FLI-2310 is implemented. (Then again, htpcfan has been raked over the coals in recent days over MBE)

I bought the Oppo aware of the lip synch issue. I am keeping my player. You are correct in that it is an excellent player for the money. The firmware upgrades have been well received. Nonetheless, it is not uncommon to see posts from those who are returning the player because of the lip synch problems they have experienced, as well as those for whom their display exaggerated MB and made the Oppo or any FLI-2310 based player a poor choice.

If I own a product that I feel has qualities (good or bad) that a potential customer might like to know about, I am willing to tell them about this product if they want to make an informed decision.

My caveat to newbies looking for a great player has elicited responses suggesting my AVR was to blame for the lip synch - quite silly, when I have connected the Oppo to three different displays using receivers, straight analog through to the display, basically every audio interface available on the Oppo and the results were consistent. Yet the recurring response to my posts were "Oppo lip synch problems occurs with some receivers". Huh? Of the 14 DVD players I have owned in the past eight years, only the Oppo has given me the lip synch problem. Understand that I am experiencing it with DVD's that have been watched on virtually every DVD player owned up to the Oppo. Basically, replies like that insult my intelligence and attempt to sidestep an issue that by virtue of its' position (#2) on the Oppo defect list has been acknowledged. Bringing up an area of the Oppo's performance to a prospective buyer is a no-no if it's a negative - I got it now.

And yet, I am high strung......Oh well. It doesn't really matter. It's just a DVD player.

You say "we" are tired of hearing about the lip synch issue. Tell us what you want to hear. (Dude, like my Oppo is SO AWESOME!! - now that's AVS raising the bar!) This is a forum, right? This is only one of hundreds of threads, right? My posts have not been responses to the Oppo intelligentsia, but rather those who are not quite sure what player to buy or if they have made the right choice in the Oppo. Consequently, that excludes those who own the Oppo and do not need to read or hear buying advice. Right?

I am not trashing the Oppo if I am referencing a documented defect, am I? Swinging hard? Please, don't get me started....If I wanted to trash something (Heh Heh..)

In a free country, any topic of discussion may support two intelligent, and yet divergent, points of view. As long as AVS Forum reflects that philosophy, I think my posts will be welcome. ;)

Paul Bigelow

07-22-05, 10:46 PM

Nice day fellas? ;)

Anyway, the first post of the thread was set up so it would help the prospective buyer get an accurate mental picture of the player in a straight ahead manner with as little bias as possible so as to not mislead people. Despite showing a lot of promise, the first version of the player's firmware was pretty rough operationally and picture-wise and the original findings from that time have been revised several times.

A lot has changed since then (the "Secrets..." review really put things in "high gear"). While not the perfect player and many things remain to be fixed -- as long as the sound sync is OK and the output signal is compatible with the display the Oppo, in my experience, can be an excellent player with commercial R1, NTSC, DVDs -- that's what I play 95% of the time.

What we have now is "the list". It's kind of long but because this player offers so much, this kind of scrutny is possible. I would love to see these items worked out and being part of the journey there has been very exciting.

Visitors to the thread come and go and like the S97 thread, a lot of the same questions get asked over and over. No problem. It's inevitable with long threads. I'll try to nudge the visitor to the first post because we try to answer a lot of questions there, but sometimes a more personal reply is desired and that's OK. We don't have all the answers but we try. We're here to discuss the player when we can, in our free time, because it's fun.

Let's have some fun.

Paul

rwestley

07-22-05, 10:54 PM

Having followed this thread from the start I want to thank Paul and others for their great work. The Oppo is not a perfect player but along with the 97S it is one of the best values around. I have watched many movies using the Oppo or my 97S and my Panasonic AE700.

The picture is not HD but is is close as as you can get at this time. I do know that there are issues with certain displays and disks. I don't think there is a perfect player but for the price the Oppo is a great value and it has only gotten better. Continue to check for updates and watch many films.

RW14712

07-22-05, 11:56 PM

Hi, cnparton & Bob4action, you two are luckier with your remote control problem, I received my Oppo last Thursday (July 14) directly from Oppo Technology so it is a black face remote with new firmware, but the power button never work, everytime I have to press the power switch on the player to turn it on then all other remote keys work, if I hit power on remote to turn player off, it only turns off the display in the window but the blue lights of power switch, eject button, play & stop remain lighted and then none of the keys will work (player hangup)until I manually switch the player off, turn on the player again with fron panel switch then every remote key functions again (except power key). Oppo customer said I should re-load the new firmware again, and of course after reloading, I hold the STOP key for 3 seconds then "new RC" came on but power key remain dead. By the way, do you see some funny display like LOAd, EIELE and rOOE (Load with small D, Title with T like E missing top just like letter F turn upside down and Root with small r capital O and again T like F upside down)? Oppo customer service said this is normal in new firmware, does that happen to your player too or just my player has some problem. Thanks for any input.

RW

nadeama

07-23-05, 12:44 AM

Hi everyone,

Just to follow up on my own post about skipping when watching PAL-NTSC converted titles from earlier in the thread, I received a reply from Oppo Digital. This is the problem:

"At all resolutions (I've tried 480p, 720p, and 1080i), PAL-NTSC
conversion skips a bit sometimes. It looks like the video is
skipping a frame or two once in a while. It's rather subtle, but
noticeable. The frequency of this problem varies; I can see it only a
few times during a movie and then several times during another (or
during the same movie if I play it again). The frequency of those
skips may also vary depending on the resolution used, but I'm not sure."

This is Oppo customer service's reply:

"PAL to NTSC is pretty much the best we can make it. The problem with PAL
to NTSC is the difference between the two formats. PAL has a higher
resolution (576 vertical lines) but only runs at 25 frames per second
(50hz). NTSC, on the other hand, has only 480 vertical lines of
resolution, but runs at 30 frames per scond (60hz). The skipping you
are experiencing is a by product of the 3:2 pulldown (1 frame
odd/1frame even/1 frame even and odd: 2 frame odd, 2 frame even)
improperly being applied to a PAL source (PAL is only 1 frame faster
than film, whereas NTSC is 6). We would love to get perfect NTSC/PAL
support, but we are limited by hardware, not software."

This is a bit too technical for me, as I have yet to learn what 3:2 pulldown is exactly, but maybe it will make sense to some of you. I'm wondering if this should go in the official defects list? While according to Oppo, it's really more a limitation than a defect, it might be good for prospective buyers to know about this.

Also, if I understand correctly, this would be a problem that affects any player that does PAL-NTSC conversion? I don't remember seeing this on my Malata DVP-520, but it's been ages since I've used it and maybe it was there and I just didn't notice before.

Finally, I'll add my voice to the praises about Oppo's customer service. I sent my email at midnight Pacific time, expecting a reply the next day, but I got the reply only a few minutes later. Those guys sure work late! :)

GSB

07-23-05, 04:43 AM

In a free country, any topic of discussion may support two intelligent, and yet divergent, points of view. As long as AVS Forum reflects that philosophy, I think my posts will be welcome.AlieniceT, I've read through nearly all of your posts. I like your writing style a great deal... excellent use of English, even though terribly cynical at times!

One of the main thrusts of the Oppo threads has been to collaboratively help Oppo Digital to make this a better player. Another, is to help others who have questions or problems. I second your "offering balance to prospective buyers". Your posts are indeed very welcome... your constructive and balanced viewpoints could go a long way to helping them.

Gary

Bob4action

07-23-05, 06:49 AM

Greetings RW14712,
I have not seen the messages you are describing or have had a repeat of my previous remote issue. How mine occured is still a mystery most likely attributed to "a ghost in the machine". I would suggest you ask Oppo for a replacement unit, as you shouldn't have those issues OOB.
Also, a comment to AlieniceT; I'd suggest giving it a rest at this point. It's as if you've appointed yourself a consumer advocate of dvd players, but with a slight grudge against Oppo despite the fact you own one.
I continue to return to this thread to educate myself on the equipment I have purchased and decided to keep. A newbie just coming in who does a simple search will see any one of a number of your rather articulate posts.
I bought Oppo because of this forum and the fact I couldn't locate a Panasonic 97/77. I knew going in that the Oppo was evolving, and in a way that was part of it's allure to me. Even though I have had a resolved problem with mine, I'm still pleased with it. Perhaps you should just sell yours and move on to some other product. No offense intended, YMMV.
b.

RW14712

07-23-05, 07:23 AM

Thanks Bob4action,
Looklike returning the Oppo for a replacement is the only way to avoid stand up twice to turn on/off player. But I will find out if the problem is isolated in remote or player probably through the learning by another remote. Have a great weekend.
RW

AlieniceT

07-23-05, 07:52 AM

Gary, I appreciate your feedback. You, along with Paul and a few other Oppo collaborators (I mean that in a good way) helped me decide to stick with the Oppo as I followed your updates and compared my experiences with the player to those of fellow Oppo owners.

As you have probably discovered, I have not limited my posts to just the "you-know-what" issue (I won't even mention it by name anymore - I'm finished with it); I have also contributed posts related to TrueLife and its' implemetation, as well as the macroblocking.

Honestly, I have only one detail of the Oppo that I would hope to see improved - and obviously I've made myself quite clear about it. :o Seriously, the macroblocking does not bother me because I've done all that can be done about it on my end and frankly it does not manifest itself enough on my displays to even be an issue. I'm kind of tired of hearing about MB, especially from those who expect to plug an Oppo into an uncalibrated plasma, DLP or LCD and see an Imax Theater blossom before their very eyes. :p

With its' detailed, natural picture and impressive color fidelity, the Oppo has made me change my mind about my import DVD collection. It's the first player to give me a viewing experience on R2 PAL and NTSC discs from the UK or Japan that rival that which I have become accustomed to with R1 discs on my Panny XP-30, Denon DVD-1600 and Pioneer DV-59AVi.

Sometimes, I will imbue my posts with a cynical humor in an attempt to soften a critical observation. It backfires occasionally. But, at the heart of every post is the hope that it will be informative for someone, especially those looking for the full spectrum of feedback on a particular issue or piece of equipment that they are considering. I myself dislike uninformed trashing of anything, and would never speak critically of something that I did not own or with which I did not have first hand experience. Juvenile emoticons and personal attacks have no place in my life. :)

Oh, and Bob4action: message received.

cougarenegade

07-23-05, 02:19 PM

Can the Oppo be programmed to work in conjunction with the Harmony 659 remote?

videoaddikt

07-23-05, 02:41 PM

Can the Oppo be programmed to work in conjunction with the Harmony 659 remote?

I have the 688 but believe the programming will be the same. The present online software at Logitech only works for the 'silver' remote. I programmed that first, which gave all kinds of weird results as far as key assignments. Then I had to go back, wipe it out, and 'do a learning mode exercise to program specific keys on the Harmony. I only did a few of the common keys. Maybe Harmony will eventually have an option for the black remote.

Whttkrasst

07-23-05, 04:41 PM

I have the 688 but believe the programming will be the same. The present online software at Logitech only works for the 'silver' remote. I programmed that first, which gave all kinds of weird results as far as key assignments. Then I had to go back, wipe it out, and 'do a learning mode exercise to program specific keys on the Harmony. I only did a few of the common keys. Maybe Harmony will eventually have an option for the black remote.

It definitely works with the 659 - I have that model. As videoaddikt stated, the remote codes on file with Harmony are not the ones for the remote that came with my Oppo, so I had to learn them all. Takes just a few minutes - no biggie. Then, reduce your inter-key delays for the device to maintain fast response time, and off you go.

Paul Bigelow

07-23-05, 10:16 PM

The URC 200 seems to have no problem with learning the Oppo remote codes.

Paul

BenDover

07-23-05, 11:51 PM

I have the 688 but believe the programming will be the same. The present online software at Logitech only works for the 'silver' remote. I programmed that first, which gave all kinds of weird results as far as key assignments. Then I had to go back, wipe it out, and 'do a learning mode exercise to program specific keys on the Harmony. I only did a few of the common keys. Maybe Harmony will eventually have an option for the black remote.

Well, the way that Harmony works, if someone who has already learned all of the keys, or even some of the keys, on the new black remote put in a description like Oppo Black, then that would become available to everyone using Harmony.

GSB

07-24-05, 04:58 AM

With its' detailed, natural picture and impressive color fidelity, the Oppo has made me change my mind about my import DVD collection. It's the first player to give me a viewing experience on R2 PAL and NTSC discs from the UK or Japan that rival that which I have become accustomed to with R1 discs on my Panny XP-30, Denon DVD-1600 and Pioneer DV-59AVi.AlieniceT, I don't have any PAL disks and there are very few PAL users who post here, so you could be very helpful with the verification and diagnosis of some of the alleged PAL troubles.

There are currently two PAL issues that it would be nice to hear your opinions on:
Some have noted that PAL playback on a PAL TV is excellent, but that PAL-to-NTSC conversion is sorely lacking. That may be due to the lack of 2-2 cadence support, but I have not been able to get a clear answer as to whether 2-2 cadence affects all PAL disks, or only PAL video/TV shows. It is important NOT to use the zoom when evaluating performance, because there are known issues with the zooms, and NOT to use 4:3 transfers, because it loses horizontal detail in the Wide/SQZ mode. So comparing a good 16:9 anamorphic PAL film transfer to a similar NTSC film transfer would be the best thing to do.
It has also been claimed that the "you-know-what" issue (LIP-SYNC, that is) is worse on PAL playback. But we are also aware that PCM or Dolby Stereo soundtracks could be problematic. Could you make an "apples to apples" comparison of 5.1 PAL DVD's with 5.1 NTSC DVD's to see if PAL is more prone to triggering the dreaded sync problem?Gary

Pronto Pup

07-24-05, 11:17 AM

My two "wishes" for this player are that sub-titles should, by default, be off and that the player retain its volume setting when powered off, then back on. Thankfully the channel trim levels are retained.

I have the Oppo connected directly to my amplifiers and sometimes forget to turn the volume down when starting a disc, resulting in bombastic volume levels.

Aside from these two small requests, I'm floored by how much performance this player gives for a measly 200 clams.

5.10-Crux

07-24-05, 11:22 AM

When you play a DVD-R burned with DivX files, does it display the full windows file name or a shorted 8+3 version?

George Montemayor

07-24-05, 12:19 PM

I tried searching this thread and the Secrets review for an answer but how is the Oppo's Y/C delay with 480i and 576i over component, and 480p and 576p over DVI?

Paul Bigelow

07-24-05, 01:10 PM

I have no 576i or 576p displays but some Y/C info for 480i (component - as there is no 480i DVI) is towards the bottom of the first post.

Paul

LiteUp!

07-24-05, 01:34 PM

RW,

This sounds like you are having some problem with your DVI switch (or display). I have seen this issue with various components connected to DVI switches that are not designed properly.....or DVI PC video cards connected to them that are not designed properly either. For some reason, these DVI switches feedback power through the DVI switch from one component to the other. Do the lights on the front of your player go out when you disconnect it from DVI? If so, this is your problem.

Hi, cnparton & Bob4action, you two are luckier with your remote control problem, I received my Oppo last Thursday (July 14) directly from Oppo Technology so it is a black face remote with new firmware, but the power button never work, everytime I have to press the power switch on the player to turn it on then all other remote keys work, if I hit power on remote to turn player off, it only turns off the display in the window but the blue lights of power switch, eject button, play & stop remain lighted and then none of the keys will work (player hangup)until I manually switch the player off, turn on the player again with fron panel switch then every remote key functions again (except power key). Oppo customer said I should re-load the new firmware again, and of course after reloading, I hold the STOP key for 3 seconds then "new RC" came on but power key remain dead. By the way, do you see some funny display like LOAd, EIELE and rOOE (Load with small D, Title with T like E missing top just like letter F turn upside down and Root with small r capital O and again T like F upside down)? Oppo customer service said this is normal in new firmware, does that happen to your player too or just my player has some problem. Thanks for any input.

RW

aoleg

07-24-05, 03:20 PM

There are currently two PAL issues that it would be nice to hear your opinions on:
Some have noted that PAL playback on a PAL TV is excellent, but that PAL-to-NTSC conversion is sorely lacking. That may be due to the lack of 2-2 cadence support, but I have not been able to get a clear answer as to whether 2-2 cadence affects all PAL disks, or only PAL video/TV shows. It is important NOT to use the zoom when evaluating performance, because there are known issues with the zooms, and NOT to use 4:3 transfers, because it loses horizontal detail in the Wide/SQZ mode. So comparing a good 16:9 anamorphic PAL film transfer to a similar NTSC film transfer would be the best thing to do.
It has also been claimed that the "you-know-what" issue (LIP-SYNC, that is) is worse on PAL playback. But we are also aware that PCM or Dolby Stereo soundtracks could be problematic. Could you make an "apples to apples" comparison of 5.1 PAL DVD's with 5.1 NTSC DVD's to see if PAL is more prone to triggering the dreaded sync problem?Gary

I have lots of good anamorphic PAL transfers, mostly French and Russian movies. PAL<>NTSC conversion is surely lacking in several aspects.

What is happening, in my opinion, is that FIRST, Oppo scales the image down in order to fit all the PAL scan lines into 480 NTSC standard; SECOND, it applies Faroudja processing to the resulting image. This creates some weird artifacts. For example, a chequered shirt looks awful: it displays flickering on slightest movement. If output is set to native PAL, that sort of behaviour does not happen.

Whatever the reason, PAL<>NTSC conversion does not look half as good as it could look if done properly (e.g. upconverting the picture in PAL first, and then downsampling the HD picture would degrade picture quality to a lesser degree).

Sometimes I see jerky movements, the result of improper 50<>60Hz conversion. That does not happen on all PAL DVDs, however.

#2 is not a problem, as far as I can see and hear. I never noticed any lip sync issues, except if poorly dubbed DVDs.

All in all, the Oppo still scores much better in PAL<>NTSC conversion than my previous player, Philips DVP642.

dirkformica

07-24-05, 08:46 PM

I purchased an OPPO OPDV971H DVD Player at the beginning of July. It has worked wonderfully, however, I have a DVD that forces the Angle Icon to appear when the episode begins (Invader Zim: Volume 3 DVD.) The icon appears after the intro credits and goes away when the outro credits roll, but during the episode playback the icon is constantly present. Clicking on the Angle button highlights the 1/2 digits, however nothing actually changes and the icon does not go away. I haven't seen this in other DVDs but I haven't tried all of my episodic DVDs yet. It doesn't seem to happen on my old Apex DVD player nor on my parents' JVC.

Are there any ways to disable the Angle icon?

Thank you in advance.

Paul Bigelow

07-24-05, 09:15 PM

dirkformica,

Check the latest firmware from Oppo Digital (link to firmware and descriptive text in the first post of the thread) there is a new setting (should already be loaded on your player, if it was bought from Oppo Digital) to turn off the Angle Icon in the menus.

Paul

RW14712

07-24-05, 09:26 PM

RW,

This sounds like you are having some problem with your DVI switch (our display). I have seen this issue with various components connected to DVI switches that are not designed properly.....or DVI PC video cards connected to them that are not designed properly either. For some reason, these DVI switches feedback power through the DVI switch from one component to the other. Do the lights on the front of your player go out when you disconnect it from DVI? If so, this is your problem.

I've just read your mail and ran down to pull out the DVI connector from Oppo, but the remote did not turn on the player, after manually turn it on, remote controlled all key like before but still could not turn off player completely, it just turn off the display window, but all other button like power, eject, play, stop still lighted. I guess there is a problem with my unit. Thanks!

Josh Z

07-25-05, 12:36 AM

Check the latest firmware from Oppo Digital (link to firmware and descriptive text in the first post of the thread) there is a new setting (should already be loaded on your player, if it was bought from Oppo Digital) to turn off the Angle Icon in the menus.

It was recently discovered that, at least when it comes to the Alien Quadrilogy DVDs, the Angle Mark setting is not 100% effective.

dirkformica, does the DVD you're watching have any option in its own menus to turn off the angle mark?

deus-ex

07-25-05, 03:09 AM

I have a dumb question : Why don't you guys just watch PAL media as it is ?
All my players have always been set to "auto", keeping PAL in PAL and NTSC in NTSC
For progressive scan Players ... it is weird to choose one standard above the other ...

All my DVD players use ot be connected in RGB, so i don't care what the standard is, the display can do 50 or 60 Hz, the RGB annihilates any encoded color format ... so long for PAL or NTSC ... it is now RGB @50 or 60 Hz !!!

For progressive scan players, connected in RGB it is the same.
Connected in DVI ? does the color standard remains important ?

If you can avoid transcoding PAL into NTSC ... do it !!!
Many PAL DVDs look better that their NTSC brother, even with PAL speed up.
You can check "Unbreakable", "Star Wars episode 1", "Lord of the rings" (any opus on any dvd) and many other titles ...
If the audio has been correctly lowered after the PAL transcoding, it is always faster, but less noticable.

I do check every edition to get the best one, and it is often the r1, but sometimes it is r2 (PAL).

aoleg

07-25-05, 04:29 AM

I have a dumb question : Why don't you guys just watch PAL media as it is ?

Unfortunately, not all display devices support PAL, and, even if they do, they don't necessarily support it properly.

For example, my Panasonic 42PD50U plasma does not support PAL in its lowest resolution (whatever is PAL analogue of 480P), but handles PAL720p and PAL1080i inputs... improperly. That is, it does display the picture, but the picture is constantly and very annoyingly flashing to the point of eye irritation. It also displays very visible motion artifacts during movement. This TV can only handle 60Hz material, after all. So, in my case, we're talking about a tradeoff: still picture quality (better in PAL mode) vs. smooth movement (NTSC converted looks better).

All my DVD players use ot be connected in RGB, so i don't care what the standard is, the display can do 50 or 60 Hz, the RGB annihilates any encoded color format ... so long for PAL or NTSC ... it is now RGB @50 or 60 Hz !!!

It is very good for you if your display can handle 50Hz input properly. Unfortunately, at least some manufacturers save on their displays by fixing their scan frequency to 60Hz. When they are fed with a 50Hz signal, their screen refresh rate remains 60Hz. That's where all sorts of motion artifacts can occur. I list only those I've seen with my own eyes on various displays: jerky movement, stroboscopic flashing, vertical image scrolling, etc., etc.

dirkformica

07-25-05, 05:39 AM

It was recently discovered that, at least when it comes to the Alien Quadrilogy DVDs, the Angle Mark setting is not 100% effective.

dirkformica, does the DVD you're watching have any option in its own menus to turn off the angle mark?

There weren't any options in the DVD's menus regarding angle marks or anything like that. However, and I'm kind of embarrassed now, I did quite easily find the option to turn off the angle icon which worked just fine.

If it were a snake it would have bit me.

mcbuckeye

07-25-05, 09:43 AM

I watched Jurassic Park last night and had to stop it at least 5 times to correct the audio-sync problem.

I was wondering--has it been demonstrated that content with lots of movement/action causes this problem more than less frenetic content?

I would think it logically would if the problem is due to the Faroudja having trouble processing the video stream quickly enough to keep up with the audio.

In any case, pause/play fixed it, but it was very annoying and definitely breaks the "suspension of disbelief" in the movie.

I've watched many other movies and not had nearly this level of trouble.

If Oppo could fix this problem, I'd be very happy.

LiteUp!

07-25-05, 01:42 PM

I finally experienced the audio sync problem as well. I was watching "The Butterfly Effect" and midways through the movie there was about a 1/2 second audio lag. I paused and then resumed and the problem disappeared and never came back. After many movies, this was the first time so far. I have yet to see this on my S97. I am running the latest firmware (of course).

GSB

07-25-05, 04:20 PM

I have lots of good anamorphic PAL transfers, mostly French and Russian movies. PAL<>NTSC conversion is surely lacking in several aspects.

What is happening, in my opinion, is that FIRST, Oppo scales the image down in order to fit all the PAL scan lines into 480 NTSC standard; SECOND, it applies Faroudja processing to the resulting image. This creates some weird artifacts. For example, a chequered shirt looks awful: it displays flickering on slightest movement. If output is set to native PAL, that sort of behaviour does not happen.

Whatever the reason, PAL<>NTSC conversion does not look half as good as it could look if done properly (e.g. upconverting the picture in PAL first, and then downsampling the HD picture would degrade picture quality to a lesser degree).

Sometimes I see jerky movements, the result of improper 50<>60Hz conversion. That does not happen on all PAL DVDs, however.

#2 is not a problem, as far as I can see and hear. I never noticed any lip sync issues, except if poorly dubbed DVDs.

All in all, the Oppo still scores much better in PAL<>NTSC conversion than my previous player, Philips DVP642.Good detail in your post. Your theory sounds reasonable. Some have mentioned that other players look better with the same material. Have you found this to be true? Were they Faroudja (or Mediatek) players?

Gary

GSB

07-25-05, 04:27 PM

I was wondering--has it been demonstrated that content with lots of movement/action causes this problem more than less frenetic content?

I would think it logically would if the problem is due to the Faroudja having trouble processing the video stream quickly enough to keep up with the audio.That does sound logical, but unfortunately, no pattern has been found. Currently, it appears to be entirely random. Rewinding the very same scene (high action or not) does not reliably trigger the sync problem again. If anyone can find a pattern, let us know!

Gary

Neuromancer

07-26-05, 02:49 AM

There weren't any options in the DVD's menus regarding angle marks or anything like that. However, and I'm kind of embarrassed now, I did quite easily find the option to turn off the angle icon which worked just fine.

If it were a snake it would have bit me.

How did you turn off the Angle Icon? I have the Philips 642 and the Oppo 971H and couldn't for the life of me get rid of the Angle icon in the 3rd Volume of Invader Zim. It is a snake, and I have been bit already ;)

renaldow

07-26-05, 03:03 AM

Tempted to pick one of these up. With the latest firmware, how is the macroblocking on a plasma? I'm using a Panasonic 42" ED 42PD25UP and I'm curious. I returned the Zenith 318 and the Panasonic S97 for horrible macroblocking issues (the Zenith was worse though - blacks looked blue).

Any info, people? Thanks in advance!

I want to, in theory, use this player over HDMI with a DVI-HDMI cable.

What others said is true about all Faroudja players. This is my experience with a similar display:

I've got the Oppo hooked up to a Zentih ED plasma via DVI and am running it at 540p. I used to use 1080i and let the TV downscale it, but now with the 540p option, it looks even better. But I digress.

I've got it calibrated with Avia. Since the last firmware, macroblocking is much better. It doesn't show up on a truly black pic, only when it's a blue/black. Grays are fine. Every other aspect of the picture is great. Of course, how the DVD was mastered also plays a big role, but assuming the disc was done well, it's only on the blue/blacks.

renaldow

07-26-05, 03:15 AM

There are currently two PAL issues that it would be nice to hear your opinions on:
Some have noted that PAL playback on a PAL TV is excellent, but that PAL-to-NTSC conversion is sorely lacking. That may be due to the lack of 2-2 cadence support, but I have not been able to get a clear answer as to whether 2-2 cadence affects all PAL disks, or only PAL video/TV shows. It is important NOT to use the zoom when evaluating performance, because there are known issues with the zooms, and NOT to use 4:3 transfers, because it loses horizontal detail in the Wide/SQZ mode. So comparing a good 16:9 anamorphic PAL film transfer to a similar NTSC film transfer would be the best thing to do.
It has also been claimed that the "you-know-what" issue (LIP-SYNC, that is) is worse on PAL playback. But we are also aware that PCM or Dolby Stereo soundtracks could be problematic. Could you make an "apples to apples" comparison of 5.1 PAL DVD's with 5.1 NTSC DVD's to see if PAL is more prone to triggering the dreaded sync problem?Gary

I've got lots of PAL content, and watch it regularly.

The NTSC>PAL conversion is horrible. I haven't noticed the image shrinking, but It does have a lot of shimmering, and lots of edge enhancement. Like out of control. Almost as if Sharpness was cranked way up. I don't have a screen shot, but the opening credit montage on the R2 UK Shaun of the Dead has a scene with shopping carts, and it's hard to watch because it's so shimmering and jaggie.

My TV can do PAL, so I usually just set both the Oppo and TV to PAL and call it good. Image look great that way. I haven't tried it since the last firmware though.

I haven't noticed the sync issue being worse at all. Whether I'm outputting a PAL signal or converting a PAL signal to NTSC doesn't seem to make a difference. Most of what I watch are films, so maybe excessive sync is related to a problem with TV/video content?

deus-ex

07-26-05, 03:27 AM

I didn' know your TVs couldn't handle 50Hz refresh rate.
Our TVs can handle 50 or 60, only the loss of vertical resolution (ie 576-> 480) is noticeable.
In prog scan modes, You can't tell the difference between PAL and NTSC.

I had a Samsung HD 935, same model as the 931 in US.
although it is displaying 576p@50Hz and 480p@60Hz, it only can display 720p@60Hz, and the result was good.

Did you try using 720p and NTSC standard as preferences in Oppo ?
PAL and NTSC media would be displayed at 720p@60Hz.
Does this still look bad ?

Does Oppo plan to add a 3:3 sequence mode for NTSC movies ?
I would love getting rid of those shaking travelling due to 60Hz. I never understood the point in doing pulldoown if it was for keeping this 3:2 pattern.

Ja Phule

07-26-05, 06:34 PM

So... is Oppo going to offer anything in the remote department to do some sort of discrete on/off for users using a Universal remote? Maybe just make the "Play" button turn on the dvd player.

AlieniceT

07-26-05, 08:18 PM

I've got lots of PAL content, and watch it regularly.

The NTSC>PAL conversion is horrible. I haven't noticed the image shrinking, but It does have a lot of shimmering, and lots of edge enhancement. Like out of control. Almost as if Sharpness was cranked way up. I don't have a screen shot, but the opening credit montage on the R2 UK Shaun of the Dead has a scene with shopping carts, and it's hard to watch because it's so shimmering and jaggie.

My TV can do PAL, so I usually just set both the Oppo and TV to PAL and call it good. Image look great that way. I haven't tried it since the last firmware though.

I haven't noticed the sync issue being worse at all. Whether I'm outputting a PAL signal or converting a PAL signal to NTSC doesn't seem to make a difference. Most of what I watch are films, so maybe excessive sync is related to a problem with TV/video content?

I watch all my PAL content on a multi-standard TV, so the PAL to NTSC conversion is not a concern for me, either. BTW, it is as bad as you say renaldow. My Malata DVP-520 is much better at the conversion, but as bad at deinterlacing as the Oppo is at PAL-NTSC. The Oppo on a PAL capable set is the best solution I've found to date. The 0628 firmware made it a keeper for me.

I watch mostly PAL content on the Oppo, so when I do see the sync go out, it's (naturally) on a PAL disc. But I think it's Faroudja related, and therefore not likely to appear on a PAL disc any more than an NTSC disc.

jwv651

07-26-05, 08:38 PM

Has anybody tried the OPPO with the New Samsung 1080p sets...a member in the Samsung 1080p thread said his Oppo won't work with his new set...it works with all other connections except HDMI/DVI connection...he states he gets a message "Mode Not Supported" anybody else have this problem.

rezokl1

07-26-05, 09:05 PM

For some reason too, when I use my Sony HS51 I cant use the oppo at 1080 - perhaps this is because the sony is a native 720p unit ? Not sure....

Funnily enough, I also have the Panasonic 700 and I could cycle through to 1080 on it.

So maybe its two of us.... :)

BenDover

07-26-05, 10:18 PM

jwv651

07-26-05, 11:41 PM

what mode was he trying to send to the 1080p sammy? i know my set (not a 1080p sammy) won't accept PAL or 576p...I guess he called Samsung and they knew of this problem when connected thru HDMI...it is the TV's fault...hopefully a firmware update...this does not sit well with me as I pre-ordered the 6768 and I already have the OPPO.

Paul Bigelow

07-27-05, 10:26 AM

How did you turn off the Angle Icon? I have the Philips 642 and the Oppo 971H and couldn't for the life of me get rid of the Angle icon in the 3rd Volume of Invader Zim. It is a snake, and I have been bit already ;)

Load the latest 0628 firmware and check the first page of the setup menus.

Paul

deus-ex

07-27-05, 12:16 PM

No one interested in 3:3 ?
I would love Oppo to give us a 72Hz mode !
480p and 720p @ 72Hz for NTSC material !!! I is great !
I don't think anythink restrict them for doing so ?
Sage Fli patent they wouldn't have bought ?

For me the most important features would be :
2:2 sequence support (all PAL material waiting for that)
72Hz support for NTSC media
audio synch fix (for the moment I have been lucky and never experience any)

MikeSRC

07-27-05, 12:23 PM

So... is Oppo going to offer anything in the remote department to do some sort of discrete on/off for users using a Universal remote? Maybe just make the "Play" button turn on the dvd player.

I've talked to the engineer about this, but nothing's happened yet. Stay tuned.

GSB

07-27-05, 07:09 PM

I watch all my PAL content on a multi-standard TV, so the PAL to NTSC conversion is not a concern for me, either. BTW, it is as bad as you say renaldow. My Malata DVP-520 is much better at the conversion, but as bad at deinterlacing as the Oppo is at PAL-NTSC. The Oppo on a PAL capable set is the best solution I've found to date. The 0628 firmware made it a keeper for me.

I watch mostly PAL content on the Oppo, so when I do see the sync go out, it's (naturally) on a PAL disc. But I think it's Faroudja related, and therefore not likely to appear on a PAL disc any more than an NTSC disc.
I've got lots of PAL content, and watch it regularly.

The NTSC>PAL conversion is horrible. I haven't noticed the image shrinking, but It does have a lot of shimmering, and lots of edge enhancement. Like out of control. Almost as if Sharpness was cranked way up. I don't have a screen shot, but the opening credit montage on the R2 UK Shaun of the Dead has a scene with shopping carts, and it's hard to watch because it's so shimmering and jaggie.

My TV can do PAL, so I usually just set both the Oppo and TV to PAL and call it good. Image look great that way. I haven't tried it since the last firmware though.

I haven't noticed the sync issue being worse at all. Whether I'm outputting a PAL signal or converting a PAL signal to NTSC doesn't seem to make a difference. Most of what I watch are films, so maybe excessive sync is related to a problem with TV/video content?
AlieniceT and Renaldow, thanks for the confirmation. That sounds perfectly logical.

Now I have a question about the shimmering/EE that renaldow reported. Is it possible that the latest firmware turned off the Mediatek's EE/sharpening for PAL and NTSC, but not for the PAL-to-NTSC conversion? Does it look similar to the shimmering/EE from the previous firmware version?

Gary

BenDover

07-27-05, 07:18 PM

I guess he called Samsung and they knew of this problem when connected thru HDMI...it is the TV's fault...hopefully a firmware update...this does not sit well with me as I pre-ordered the 6768 and I already have the OPPO.

:eek:

GSB

07-27-05, 08:59 PM

Does Oppo plan to add a for NTSC movies ?
I would love getting rid of those shaking travelling due to 60Hz. I never understood the point in doing pulldoown if it was for keeping this 3:2 pattern. A film-based NTSC DVD is recorded with a 3-2 interlaced sequence to convert from 24fps film to 60Hz NTSC. 3-2 pulldown detection in a progressive player reconstructs the picture in 60 deinterlaced (progressive) frames.

This Secrets of Home Theater and HiFi (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-10-2000.html) article explains the 3-2 sequence very nicely. They also describe how 3-3 detection could reconstruct the picture in 72 progressive frames per second (72Hz). This would have the advantage of smoothing the slight motion judder of 3-2 detection at 60Hz, but they mention that "72fps will only work with film based sources though, as it is a multiple of 24. It will not work well with video sources which are 60 field per second". Also, your display has to be able to support a 72Hz refresh rate. How many displays really do?

Gary

dusterscott

07-27-05, 10:22 PM

Very cool article. Thanks Gary.

tipton

07-27-05, 11:00 PM

if this thing would just play avi/divx files without stretching them... and if it would play hrhd (high def avi) files it would make this thing so much better for me... i hope they fix these problems in later firmwares

Neuromancer

07-28-05, 02:25 AM

Paul Bigelow,

Holy crap I am an idiot. I should not be allowed to use this player anymore. I can fix myself out of a paper bag, but I can't find a simple toggle in a menu system. Somehow I just kept on going past the first menu everytime I looked for an Angle toggle.

lewis1

07-28-05, 02:42 AM

anybody else getting 2'' cropping on right side of screen if so how do you fix it i'm running zenith 318 with commonet and it does not crop at the left the projector is a sharp dt-300 thanks

deus-ex

07-28-05, 03:43 AM

A film-based NTSC DVD ..... It will not work well with video sources which are 60 field per second". Also, your display has to be able to support a 72Hz refresh rate. How many displays really do?

Gary
I know all of that... my first FLi based player was the Skyworth 1050P(+mods) back in 2001 and I always had a CRT pojector, so I always had been concerned in refresh rate for NTSC movie (most of my DVDs / LDs) as it has never been smooth.

and to reply I would say that any CRT based projector can handle pretty much anything.

I don't think Oppo would like to do 47.952Hz, so I asked 72Hz.
Film material is all I watch, and if the media is not properly flagged, deinterlacer will comb or not, depending on the one used into the player (Fli is quite good on that with the DCDi algo).

So ... I don't know why adding a multiple of 24 refresh rate could be a bad idea.

60Hz is not clean and we have everything to create a clean signal, even a 47.952 Hz or 71.928 Hz, For film based material it would be splendid !
I don't ask to make this feature a default one, but to add an option : "refresh rate" or anything and the choices : 47.952(48) / 60 / 71.928(72)

Won't it be cool ?

For digital displays ... You don't really care the refresh rate do you ?
I thought the highest refresh rate you provide, the less flickering it was for DLP based proj, no ?
For LCD .. I don't know if 60Hz or 72Hz change anything, But if it does, it could be better, no ?

Josh Z

07-28-05, 10:47 AM

I don't ask to make this feature a default one, but to add an option : "refresh rate" or anything and the choices : 47.952(48) / 60 / 71.928(72)

Won't it be cool ?

For digital displays ... You don't really care the refresh rate do you ?
I thought the highest refresh rate you provide, the less flickering it was for DLP based proj, no ?
For LCD .. I don't know if 60Hz or 72Hz change anything, But if it does, it could be better, no ?

While I can see the value in what you're requesting, we're moving well beyond the realm of reasonable expectations. The Oppo is not a video scaler. It's a $200 DVD player.

AlieniceT

07-28-05, 11:31 AM

AlieniceT and Renaldow, thanks for the confirmation. That sounds perfectly logical.

Now I have a question about the shimmering/EE that renaldow reported. Is it possible that the latest firmware turned off the Mediatek's EE/sharpening for PAL and NTSC, but not for the PAL-to-NTSC conversion? Does it look similar to the shimmering/EE from the previous firmware version?

Gary

Gary,

I finally broke down and ordered the PAL version of DVE. I need it to check how my calibration settings for the NTSC DVE look on the PAL disc and if I need separate settings for each format. I'll compare both PAL output and PAL to NTSC output of the DVE patterns and reference material when I receive it.

I personally noticed the dramatic reduction or elimination of shimmering / EE on both PAL and NTSC material with the 0628 firmware. Most cases now when I see excessive EE, I know it's in the disc itself. :)

coopah

07-28-05, 11:36 AM

I have been using a 4 year old Pioneer Ellite 7000 dvd player that I went back to after trying the Bravo d1. The bravo was good using dvi but just not up to the quality of the Pioneer and component cables. I do not know how much dvd players have improved recently so I am excited to see if I can retire the Pioneer. I have a Sony HS-10 PJ. If anybody has any insight or experience with the equipment I listed please let me know. Cheers

GSB

07-28-05, 02:11 PM

Gary,

I finally broke down and ordered the PAL version of DVE. I need it to check how my calibration settings for the NTSC DVE look on the PAL disc and if I need separate settings for each format. I'll compare both PAL output and PAL to NTSC output of the DVE patterns and reference material when I receive it.

I personally noticed the dramatic reduction or elimination of shimmering / EE on both PAL and NTSC material with the 0628 firmware. Most cases now when I see excessive EE, I know it's in the disc itself.Great! Keep us posted. Is the elimination of shimmering also evident in the PAL-to-NTSC conversion?

Gary

GSB

07-28-05, 02:46 PM

I know all of that... Your 3-3 cadence question was way above the heads of many visitors to this thread. I provided the explanation for their benefit.
For digital displays ... You don't really care the refresh rate do you ?
I thought the highest refresh rate you provide, the less flickering it was for DLP based proj, no ?No. DLP does not flicker like CRT, and DLP only accepts a very limited number of refresh rates. I do agree that 72Hz would be cool, but I'm not sure that it is even possible with the FLI2310. Even if it is possible, this request would have to be pretty low priority on the wishlist.

Gary

AlieniceT

07-28-05, 02:50 PM

Great! Keep us posted. Is the elimination of shimmering also evident in the PAL-to-NTSC conversion?

Gary

Yes. The overall PQ improved across the board with the 0628 firmware. With Sharpness turned off, any excessive EE is either disc or display generated, IMHO. Any PQ analysis of the Oppo prior to the latest firmware is obsolete, basically. The only real remaining issue with PAL product on the Oppo is the hardware limitations imposed by the MediaTek MT1389. Oppo support have said that the conversion is the best that they can do with the hardware they are using. So while the PQ improved for converted PAL content, there is still a noticeable loss in quality over the unconverted PAL signal. I plan on doing more testing as time allows. Nonetheless, outputting the disc in PAL without any conversion yields a great picture with the FLI-2310.

I first purchased the Malata DVP-520 because of it's quality PAL-to-NTSC combined with the infinite X-Y scaling capability offered by the Mediamatics chipset they were using. At the time of purchase, I had no display that would accept a PAL signal. But, I soon realized that the deinterlacing on the Malata left much to be desired. Hence my interest in the Oppo. The ultimate import player would combine the PAL to NTSC and X-Y scaling capabilities of the Malata with the deinterlacing and responsiveness of the Oppo. :)

Ja Phule

07-28-05, 03:10 PM

There has to be some loss in quality when converting PAL to NTSC. You are going from a 576 to 480 afterall.

AlieniceT

07-28-05, 03:27 PM

That's 100% true, although some players are better equipped hardware-wise to do the job without too much softening of the image or creating artifacts. The Mediamatics chipset on the Malata (and some JVC players too, IIRC) did have a pretty good reputation for its' PAL to NTSC conversion.

GSB

07-28-05, 04:17 PM

Oppo support have said that the conversion is the best that they can do with the hardware they are using. So while the PQ improved for converted PAL content, there is still a noticeable loss in quality over the unconverted PAL signal. I plan on doing more testing as time allows. Nonetheless, outputting the disc in PAL without any conversion yields a great picture with the FLI-2310.Thanks for your informative posts. We're eagerly awaiting the results of your testing (after your PAL DVE arrives of course).

To the rest of the Oppo owners, if it is true that the PAL-to-NTSC conversion cannot be further improved (because Oppo has reached the limits of the Mediatek chip's capabilities), we should consider removing the request from the defect list. That list addresses firmware-correctable issues only. After all, as Josh has appropriately reminded us, "It's a $200 DVD player".

Gary

Dave Mack

07-28-05, 04:37 PM

I own a JVC na70 and the PAL-NTSC conversion is far superior to my zenith 318. I have done the componet upconversion hack and even with the 1080i pic. against the 480P pic. on my old Mits 55" Diamond there was no contest. For NTSC discs, the zenith looked better. I just got an Optoma h57 projector which can display PAL discs natively. I'm thinking of ordering the Oppo. for this but am wary of the lipsynching problem and the 2/2 Pal bad edits problem. My zenith 318 loses sync. now and again and it's a bit annoying.

d

AlieniceT

07-28-05, 05:13 PM

I own a JVC na70 and the PAL-NTSC conversion is far superior to my zenith 318. d

When I was shopping for my first PAL capable player, it was a tough call between the Malata and the JVC. Ultimately the Malata won out because they utilized the infinite X-Y scaling feature built into the Mediamatics chipset, whereas JVC merely offered a handful of standard zoom increments using the same chip. It is an awesome tool to eliminate overscan and basically dial the picture in. It let me scale non-anamorphic DVD's to fit my display perfectly with no loss of PQ. All players should have this feature. If JVC had enabled it on their players, I most likely would have gone with them.

Of course, the Oppo fed to a display that accepts PAL natively is the ideal set-up. ;)

CJayB

07-28-05, 08:34 PM

When I was shopping for my first PAL capable player, it was a tough call between the Malata and the JVC. Ultimately the Malata won out because they utilized the infinite X-Y scaling feature built into the Mediamatics chipset, whereas JVC merely offered a handful of standard zoom increments using the same chip. It is an awesome tool to eliminate overscan and basically dial the picture in. It let me scale non-anamorphic DVD's to fit my display perfectly with no loss of PQ. All players should have this feature. If JVC had enabled it on their players, I most likely would have gone with them.

Of course, the Oppo fed to a display that accepts PAL natively is the ideal set-up. ;)

I've been lamenting the lack of X-Y scaling on most DVD players ever since I bought my Malata N996. That player has dreadful deinterlacing (it's sitting in storage right now), but the X-Y scaling was lovely. I also had a JVC unit for PAL playback (their 7-disc changer) and recently sold it to make way for the Oppo. I do wish more people would make it known that they have a desire for this feature. Maybe we could even convince the manufacturers to build infinite X-Y scaling into the spec for HD-DVD and Blu-ray.

Ja Phule

07-28-05, 09:26 PM

I've been lamenting the lack of X-Y scaling on most DVD players ever since I bought my Malata N996. That player has dreadful deinterlacing (it's sitting in storage right now), but the X-Y scaling was lovely. I also had a JVC unit for PAL playback (their 7-disc changer) and recently sold it to make way for the Oppo. I do wish more people would make it known that they have a desire for this feature. Maybe we could even convince the manufacturers to build infinite X-Y scaling into the spec for HD-DVD and Blu-ray.

And custom resolutions, custom refresh rates, audio delay...:)

renaldow

07-29-05, 12:44 AM

AlieniceT and Renaldow, thanks for the confirmation. That sounds perfectly logical.

Now I have a question about the shimmering/EE that renaldow reported. Is it possible that the latest firmware turned off the Mediatek's EE/sharpening for PAL and NTSC, but not for the PAL-to-NTSC conversion? Does it look similar to the shimmering/EE from the previous firmware version?

Gary

I haven't tried it since the new update, I'll give that same scene I mentioned in the opening of Shaun of the Dead to see if it's same/different or other.

EDIT:

After reading AlieniceT's thread about the improvement, I'm definitely going to run it through that tests when I get a chance. Not that I don't believe AT, I just want to see it for myself.

A lot has been tossed around in both Oppo threads, and just to make sure I understand, is the PAL>NTSC conversion problem being blamed on the 2:2 Cadence issue? I'm asking because my old Toshiba SD 3900 also didn't do the 2:2 cadence, and had remarkably wonderful PAL>NTSC conversion. So accurate that I don't think you's be able to tell it was a conversion.

nadeama

07-29-05, 01:46 AM

Thanks for your informative posts. We're eagerly awaiting the results of your testing (after your PAL DVE arrives of course).

To the rest of the Oppo owners, if it is true that the PAL-to-NTSC conversion cannot be further improved (because Oppo has reached the limits of the Mediatek chip's capabilities), we should consider removing the request from the defect list. That list addresses firmware-correctable issues only. After all, as Josh has appropriately reminded us, "It's a $200 DVD player".

Gary

Oppo Digital have indeed told me in an email that PAL-NTSC conversion was the best they could do with the current hardware. Now we just have to find out whether that's really true or not... :)

Actually, I've been relatively pleased with the PAL-NTSC conversion of the Oppo, except for the jerky playback (lots of skipping) that I've mentioned in an earlier post. Yes, the image is a little softer than with NTSC titles, but it's certainly not dramatic on my display. In fact, every time that I've seen serious problems with a PAL disc, like shimmering and pixelation for example, I was able to verify on my computer's PAL-capable display that the problems were with the authoring of the discs themselves, and not with the Oppo's conversion.

Now if it was possible to fix the jerky playback, I'd really be very happy with the Oppo's PAL-NTSC capabilities. But let's not ask for the moon... :)

CJayB

07-29-05, 02:40 AM

I haven't tried it since the new update, I'll give that same scene I mentioned in the opening of Shaun of the Dead to see if it's same/different or other.

EDIT:

After reading AlieniceT's thread about the improvement, I'm definitely going to run it through that tests when I get a chance. Not that I don't believe AT, I just want to see it for myself.

A lot has been tossed around in both Oppo threads, and just to make sure I understand, is the PAL>NTSC conversion problem being blamed on the 2:2 Cadence issue? I'm asking because my old Toshiba SD 3900 also didn't do the 2:2 cadence, and had remarkably wonderful PAL>NTSC conversion. So accurate that I don't think you's be able to tell it was a conversion.

Having owned the Toshiba SD3900, I would say that the PAL-NTSC conversion of the Oppo is at least as good as the Toshiba, but with all the other benefits of the Oppo in terms of image sharpness and much better delinterlacing. I've owned numerous players for their PAL to NTSC capabilities, and the Oppo beats 'em all.

deus-ex

07-29-05, 03:13 AM

I do agree that 72Hz would be cool, but I'm not sure that it is even possible with the FLI2310. Even if it is possible, this request would have to be pretty low priority on the wishlist.

Gary
Here is a product brief of the 2310 (file attached), I asked this feature because I remembered the Fli2310 was able to do FRC (Frame rate conversion). It appears that the list of possible frame rates is : 50/60/72/75/100/120 Hz.
I would love them to enable 72Hz, Some friends of mine tried it on the Philips 963sa but they lack informations and they more or less gave it up, too bad !

While I can see the value in what you're requesting, we're moving well beyond the realm of reasonable expectations. The Oppo is not a video scaler. It's a $200 DVD player.
It is doing 480p / 576p / 720p and 1080i .. in both 50Hz and 60Hz ...
Those are scaling features, basic scaling features, but they are.
Allowing it to provide a smooth Film based display would be a wonderful benefit, I think some other DVD/DivX players can do so.

So I join the 2310 product brief, useful to know this sort of things about the marvel or Oppo player has inside.

renaldow

07-29-05, 03:26 AM

Having owned the Toshiba SD3900, I would say that the PAL-NTSC conversion of the Oppo is at least as good as the Toshiba, but with all the other benefits of the Oppo in terms of image sharpness and much better delinterlacing. I've owned numerous players for their PAL to NTSC capabilities, and the Oppo beats 'em all.

Did you feel that way before the last firmware, and are you using the same display then as you do now?

CJayB

07-29-05, 09:38 AM

Did you feel that way before the last firmware, and are you using the same display then as you do now?

No, before the newest firmware the Oppo had great promise but lacked execution. Problems with shimmering, et al, with the old firmware made the Oppo an also ran when watching a great deal of material (though some DVDs looked great even with earlier firmwares). My display has not changed. I do not however scale with the Oppo, I use my iScan HD (soon to be HD+) to scale and also sometimes use the HD to do the PAL to NTSC conversion, but even using the Oppo to do the conversion, the PAL-NTSC looks very nice.

renaldow

07-29-05, 09:55 AM

No, before the newest firmware the Oppo had great promise but lacked execution. Problems with shimmering, et al, with the old firmware made the Oppo an also ran when watching a great deal of material (though some DVDs looked great even with earlier firmwares). My display has not changed. I do not however scale with the Oppo, I use my iScan HD (soon to be HD+) to scale and also sometimes use the HD to do the PAL to NTSC conversion, but even using the Oppo to do the conversion, the PAL-NTSC looks very nice.

Good news then. Like I put in a previous post, I haven't tried it with the new firmware. Sounds like it helped the conversion process out then! While I can switch my TV to PAL, it's easier (and I'm lazy) to just put the disc in and let the Oppo do all the work. ;)

saksan

07-29-05, 11:35 AM

nadeama

07-29-05, 01:29 PM

Ultimately the Malata won out because they utilized the infinite X-Y scaling feature built into the Mediamatics chipset, whereas JVC merely offered a handful of standard zoom increments using the same chip. It is an awesome tool to eliminate overscan and basically dial the picture in. It let me scale non-anamorphic DVD's to fit my display perfectly with no loss of PQ.

Hi,

Could you elaborate on this? When using my Malata DVP-520 with letterboxed, non-anamorphic material, I usually just zoom in the image, with a slight loss of picture quality.

Is there some other trick that I should know about?

Thanks.

AlieniceT

07-29-05, 03:01 PM

Hi,

Could you elaborate on this? When using my Malata DVP-520 with letterboxed, non-anamorphic material, I usually just zoom in the image, with a slight loss of picture quality.

Is there some other trick that I should know about?

Thanks.

If you are using the "feature" key on your remote to access the zoom/scaling function, then you are taking advantage of the X-Y scaling to fill your display by a simple zoom of both X and Y equally. The Mediamatics has probably the best PQ in zoom mode that I have experienced, but I overstated it by saying no loss of PQ. Unlike other players, the Malata offers both zoom and shrink, as well as pan, in pixel increments, which lets you place the picture exactly in the center of your display with no picture information loss due to overscan. Most displays have overscan built into them. Overscan is not pixel cropping. In pixel cropping, the image is cropped, and actual picture information on the disc is lost. Overscan just displays the image outside the viewable portion of your display - by shrinking the image slightly on the Malata, the entire frame of the image is available for viewing.

Many members who have issues with picture placement on their displays (especially projectors) would benefit from this feature if it were available on all DVD players.

In my case, the Malata DVP-520 was excellent at PAL to NTSC conversion, but a very poor deinterlacer. I just tested it using the Silicon Optix HQV Benchmark DVD, and it failed most of the tests. :( It is best utilized via its' 480i output over component if you do not have a PAL capable display.

The Oppo is a much better choice for PAL content if you have a PAL friendly display.

GSB

07-29-05, 03:32 PM

I received my OPPO couple of days ago. I connect the player via DVI to my Syntax LT26HVE LCD. PQ is very nice. When I selected 720p output, there was a rolling sync bar moving vertically upward every 15 mins. This bar occurred when the movie was played for about half a hour AND with 720p (there seems to be no problem with 1080i). Does anyone know how to fix this?Do not place the player in a fully closed cabinet, especially if is in the same space as other hot equipment. Make sure your player is getting enough cool air, and DO NOT put it on top of another piece of hot equipment - like a receiver.

If that doesn't help, check that the Syntax LT26HVE doesn't have issues with 720p from other equipment. It may turn out that you will have to use 1080i for your display.

If none of the above apply, then contact Oppo, and explain what you've done to isolate the problem, and they'll be happy to help out or replace your unit.

Gary

BenDover

07-31-05, 12:09 AM

Is the issue pertaining to lip sync something that can be addressed solely through firmware tweaks or is it also hardware related? A few pages back, when I "sparked" some controversy over this issue, one of the responses posted indicated that it is an issue coupled with the Faroudja chipset and that other manufacturers that have solved the problem worked closely with Faroudja to do so. I didn't get the sense of whether that meant tweaks to hardware, hardware/firmware or just firmware.

My guess would be that certainly some tweaking can be succesfully implemented through firmware, however, if the hardware simply isn't up to the task, then I imagine firmware alone would not be enough.

Unfortunately, so far, every single DVD I have played has at some point experienced lip sync delays. I know some here have stated that it can be the quality of the DVD mastering itself, but I've thrown a number of discs at it, some of which I consider to be reference quality, and have still experienced lip sync. Also, I've played these discs in my other players, (Denon 3910, Samsung HD931 and JVC GD95 (can't remember exactly the model of the JVC...it is the 7-disc changer) and have not experienced lip sync. I also tried swapping the players into different setups (i.e., different AV receivers/TVs) but observed the same behavior.

Sadly, I will have to return my unit (I find the lip sync to be way too distracting; my 6yr old kids noticing the issue and commenting topped it off) if this is something that cannot be addressed through firmware alone; if it is hardware, hopefully in their next version, Oppo will beef up the hardware.

Anyone know what the applicable hardware specs are on the Oppo vs. some of the other players that don't have the lip sync issue? If the applicable hardware (e.g., ASIC, DSPs, buffer, etc.) is the same or similar to hardware of players that don't have this issue, I would still hold out hope and possibly risk falling outside of my 30 day return period...

GFletch

07-31-05, 11:29 AM

If I had lip sync problems as severe as you describe, I would return mine. IMO, there's no reason to go through that for a DVD player. You could either buy it again IF the problem gets solved, or chuck the idea for something else. The Panny 77 sounds like a possibility. The problem is rare enough for me that I don't get the glare (too bad) from the other couch. If you get my meaning.

jwv651

07-31-05, 12:55 PM

Anybody match the OPPO with one of those New Samsung 1080p's yet?

wwwin

07-31-05, 07:24 PM

I was wondering if anybody had tried setup 1234 to disable Macrovision? Does it improve anything? Is it reversible by going back to setup 1234? Thanks

wwwin

07-31-05, 07:32 PM

This Oppo came with region 1 as default. Is there a limited number of times that the region can be changed? (like a Dvd drive that can be changed only 5 times) or is this unlimited? Should I just change it to 0 instead of 1? Would this make it play every region if I put to 0? Any consequenses of changing the region to 0? Thanks

<<<<CHECK VERSION / TO MAKE REGION FREE:

The latest shipment of units are not region free. To change to region free mode do this:

• Press Setup on remote control to access the setup page
• Enter 9210 on the remote
• A secret menu will pop up
• Select 0 to 6 in region code (0 is region free)
• Press Setup on remote again to exit>>>>>

BenDover

07-31-05, 07:52 PM

I was wondering if anybody had tried setup 1234 to disable Macrovision? Does it improve anything? Is it reversible by going back to setup 1234? Thanks

The oppo can disable macrovision? that could allow me to pass the signal to my Z9 and let it use its Faroudja implementation, presumably getting rid of the lip sync issue for me...hmmm.

BenDover

07-31-05, 07:53 PM

Ja Phule

07-31-05, 08:01 PM

The oppo can disable macrovision? that could allow me to pass the signal to my Z9 and let it use its Faroudja implementation, presumably getting rid of the lip sync issue for me...hmmm.

I don't believe you need to disable macrovision in order to do this. The Z9 should process any 480i input coming from composite/svideo/component. Or maybe I'm wrong in thinking how the Z9 works.

wwwin

07-31-05, 08:34 PM

you should set it to "0" ... that will allow you to play any disc, no matter the region...no consequences that i am aware of...

Thanks, I had set it at that but changed it back to 1, was not sure if there was a limit on the number of changes, as the DVD drives on computers have.

BenDover

07-31-05, 09:25 PM

I don't believe you need to disable macrovision in order to do this. The Z9 should process any 480i input coming from composite/svideo/component. Or maybe I'm wrong in thinking how the Z9 works.

the z9 will not upconvert copyprotected source material...

Stimby

07-31-05, 10:31 PM

Macrovision is easy enough to disable on mediatek based chipsets, I think the code is 1234.

GSB

08-01-05, 03:03 AM

Is the issue pertaining to lip sync something that can be addressed solely through firmware tweaks or is it also hardware related?It is evidently possible via firmware alone.

Gary

BenDover

08-01-05, 07:31 AM

It is evidently possible via firmware alone.

Gary

That sounds promising...does Oppo post firmware upgrades regularly? When is the next expected upgrade? what are they tweaking in the firmware to eliminate the lip sync problem?

thanks in advance...

saksan

08-01-05, 12:16 PM

Do not place the player in a fully closed cabinet, especially if is in the same space as other hot equipment. Make sure your player is getting enough cool air, and DO NOT put it on top of another piece of hot equipment - like a receiver.

If that doesn't help, check that the Syntax LT26HVE doesn't have issues with 720p from other equipment. It may turn out that you will have to use 1080i for your display.

If none of the above apply, then contact Oppo, and explain what you've done to isolate the problem, and they'll be happy to help out or replace your unit.

Gary
Thanks for your reply. But, I don't think it is heat related since the Oppo is on a floor in open space. Actually, I tried another dvd this weekend and the sync bar started couple mins into the movie. This is very strange. Does anybody else encounter this problem? There seems to be no issue with 480p or 1080i.

I think I'll exchange this unit with the new one.

Thanks,

GSB

08-01-05, 07:50 PM

Thanks for your reply. But, I don't think it is heat related since the Oppo is on a floor in open space. Actually, I tried another dvd this weekend and the sync bar started couple mins into the movie. This is very strange. Does anybody else encounter this problem? There seems to be no issue with 480p or 1080i.

I think I'll exchange this unit with the new one.If you've eliminated the display and cable first, that's a good idea.

Gary

GSB

08-01-05, 08:18 PM

That sounds promising...does Oppo post firmware upgrades regularly? When is the next expected upgrade? what are they tweaking in the firmware to eliminate the lip sync problem?Oppo posts firmware upgrades every one or two months.

Apart from lip-sync errors commonly found IN THE SOURCE MATERIAL, this is an intermittent VIDEO delay problem, and appears to be a memory buffering issue with the Faroudja processor.

Video begins to lag the audio at an arbitrary point - perhaps when the processor trips up and starts to rely heavily on the buffer. This is a VERY obvious delay and does not correct itself. Sync will be restored if you stop or rewind the DVD. It is common to ALL TV’s and DVD players that use this chip in its default application, unless they have specifically taken measures to correct it in firmware. The fix may require using the buffer more efficiently, but seems to involve some compromise, perhaps introducing a smaller, constant delay that can be compensated for by the audio delay feature in the player.

Also see this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5576842#post5576842).

Gary

AlieniceT

08-01-05, 08:44 PM

From the Home Theater Hifi website, in a technical overview of how some of the better deinterlacing chipsets operate, is this interesting section regarding the Sil503/504:

The Silicon Image chip buffers 4 fields at all times, which it uses for cadence analysis as well as motion analysis in video mode. As a result, it is much better than the Genesis at handling cadence problems and combs very little. Its video-mode deinterlacing algorithm is motion-adaptive, and is substantially better than the one on the Genesis. It handles 2-2 cadence with no trouble. Overall, it’s one of the best performing deinterlacers on the market, comparable only to much more expensive products from Faroudja, and a few others. One disadvantage of the 4 field buffer is that it adds delay to the video output. If the audio is not delayed the same amount as the video, lip sync problems can result. The chip offers a special digital audio pass-through that will delay the audio the appropriate amount so it synchs up with the video, but very few companies use it.

Is it possible that the Faroudja FLI-2310 offers this same pass-through ability, but that Oppo has not opted to utilize it? If the Faroudja does not, then the next question is - why? If the Faroudja offers this pass-through, might it require a board modification (different circuit traces to interface the audio signal with the FLI-2310?). That would put a fix outside of the realm of firmware. Anybody out there work for Genesis/Faroudja? You can post here in confidentiality... :D

Hard to imagine that other FLI-2310 players do not get the same quantity of comments regarding lip synch. :(

renaldow

08-02-05, 12:02 AM

BenDover

08-02-05, 12:11 PM

Since I've upgraded to the latest firmware I have noticed less problems with sync. I haven't seen as many movies as I normally would have since the release because I moved and just got the new HT system all set up, but it has been enough discs that I should've seen it by now, and haven't.

One possible explanation is that a lot of what I have watched lately has been low budget horror dvds (I review 'em.) Being screeners, they are often encoded at much lower bitrates, so I'm wondering if maybe it's just that the buffer hasn't been able to fill and cause the sync and so maybe it has nothing to do with the firmware?

Another thing I'm thinking might have effected it is that I've also changed my receiver to a new Pioneer 815 from a much older JVC.

Just tossing out this info in case it's useful. I haven't heard anyone mention any difference in running high bitrate vs. low bit rate discs in regards to the sync issue.

Also, either in this thread or the other one I remember someone mentioning that people with Yamaha receivers aren't having the sync issue, could any Pioneer owners out there pipe up if they're having (or not having) the sync problem too?

I have been speculating on the buffer/processor not keeping up as well and your post jarred my brain...i'll throw in one of my superbit dvd's tonight and see if the sync problems i have experienced so far (really every dvd i've watched so far has shown noticeable lip sync problems) are that much more pronounced or even reproducible.

BTW, I am a Yamaha receiver owner and as you can see AM experiencing the problem.

I appreciate all the knowledgeable discussion and replies to my inquiries but I have to say I'm a little frustrated at this point. I've used a number of different "quality" dvd's...still had the issue (so, while i don't doubt there can be lip sync issues in the source material, it doesn't seem to be the cause here); MOREOVER, I would think that if you can stop/rew the dvd to get rid of the lip synch problem then it can't possibly be the source at fault. I've played these very same DVDs in two other players using the same Faroudja chipset (my Denon 3910 and my Samsung HD931)...neither of these players exhibits any discernible lip sync.

tonight i will try to connect the oppo via component to my Z9 (which also has the same Faroudja chipset) and see if the lip sync issue manifests itself.

tomboyter

08-02-05, 01:27 PM

Dear Paul,

Back to Dazog's question...how is the sound quality when playing music CD's. Does it compare favorably to the Denon?

milesfides

08-02-05, 03:46 PM

can anybody give me settings for dolby digital? i've used both coax and toslink with my denon dolby digital 5.1/dts receiver, but can't get any sound (analog works fine).

customer rep told me: downmix=5.1, raw, 192k. did all of that, yet still no worky (no sound and no green light on my denon telling me it's getting a 5.1 signal)

GSB

08-02-05, 04:33 PM

I have been speculating on the buffer/processor not keeping up as well and your post jarred my brain...i'll throw in one of my superbit dvd's tonight and see if the sync problems i have experienced so far (really every dvd i've watched so far has shown noticeable lip sync problems) are that much more pronounced or even reproducible.Reproducible? That gets me very interested. If the problem is truly reproducible, and is definitely not in the source, we'd like to hear about it. Tell us exactly where it occurs. Every bit of evidence we can gather and verify, can help Oppo to fix this. As I recommended before, though, please carefully read this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5576842#post5576842) entire post first.
BTW, I am a Yamaha receiver owner and as you can see AM experiencing the problem.For the benefit of others, this issue has nothing to do with the receiver (unless there is a known defect with a particular receiver).
I would think that if you can stop/rew the dvd to get rid of the lip synch problem then it can't possibly be the source at fault.Correct.
I've played these very same DVDs in two other players using the same Faroudja chipset (my Denon 3910 and my Samsung HD931)...neither of these players exhibits any discernible lip sync. I know through past experience, that both Denon and Samsung players have suffered with the dreaded Faroudja lip-sync issue, yet both manufacturers have been able to fix it.

Samsung DLP TV's with Faroudja processors had this problem too... not just with DVD, but with ordinary TV channels... changing the channel would fix the problem in the same way that stopping a DVD would. It was such a hot topic, that a dedicated "Samsung Video Delay" thread was started and it continued for over 2200 posts. Eventually, by consulting with Genesis engineers, Samsung fixed the problem, but had to make a few compromises.

Many people have tried to pin down the source of the problem to high bit-rate or other DVD content, all to no avail. Don't torture yourself... it appears to be very arbitrary.

Gary

BenDover

08-02-05, 04:45 PM

...

Samsung DLP TV's with Faroudja processors had this problem too... not just with DVD, but with ordinary TV channels... changing the channel would fix the problem in the same way that stopping a DVD would. It was such a hot topic, that a dedicated "Samsung Video Delay" thread was started and it continued for over 2200 posts. Eventually, by consulting with Genesis engineers, Samsung fixed the problem, but had to make a few compromises.

Many people have tried to pin down the source of the problem to high bit-rate or other DVD content, all to no avail. Don't torture yourself... it appears to be very arbitrary.

Gary

Yes, I was aware of the problems with the Samsung DLP sets. I have an HLN series DLP set and fortunately never experienced any lip sync.

I guess I won't torture myself but I was really trying to hold onto this player b/c it meets all of my needs. If I fealt certain that they could fix the issue through firmware (btw, I do feel certain that they WILL fix the issue, just not sure how...Oppo seems to be very hard at work staying on top of their game) I would simply hold onto it and not concern myself over returning it within the 30 day period (I don't usually concern myself over stuff like this, but as a result, I've got closets full of "stuff" just sitting in boxes that I don't/can't use :D).

Anyhow, I will try the Superbit DVDs tonight and if I have time, use the component out to my Yamaha and let it use its own Faroudja chipset to see what happens there (although, from what I've read, I don't believe it will give the nice PQ that the Oppo is able to derive from the same chipset due to how it is implemented, etc.).

Out of curiosity, hasn't anyone tried a Superbit DVD in the Oppo yet?

GSB

08-02-05, 04:59 PM

The Silicon Image chip buffers 4 fields at all times, which it uses for cadence analysis as well as motion analysis in video mode. As a result, it is much better than the Genesis at handling cadence problems and combs very little. Its video-mode deinterlacing algorithm is motion-adaptive, and is substantially better than the one on the Genesis. Very interesting, but mostly marketing hype from SI. To accomplish the motion-adaptive de-interlacing, the Faroudja processor also has to buffer a few frames. I think the sync problem arises when things go wrong with the processing sequence, and MORE than just a few frames are being buffered, hence increasing the delay substantially.

Is it possible that the Faroudja FLI-2310 offers this same pass-through ability, but that Oppo has not opted to utilize it? If the Faroudja does not, then the next question is - why?Not according to the product brief. But even if the chip had such a pass-through, it cannot help an intermittent fault, such as this one.
Hard to imagine that other FLI-2310 players do not get the same quantity of comments regarding lip synch.They used to... until their players were fixed!

Gary

GSB

08-02-05, 05:06 PM

Out of curiosity, hasn't anyone tried a Superbit DVD in the Oppo yet?I've tried a bunch and not had any problems yet. However, in my Faroudja-powered Samsung HLN, Superbit DVD's would trigger the problem as often as the non-Superbit versions, so I'm sure the Oppo is not immune.

Gary

Ja Phule

08-02-05, 05:12 PM

Never had lip sync problems using the Faroudja on my Screenplay 4805 projector.

Rich4av

08-02-05, 05:40 PM

Makes me wonder if the problem is audio based or video based. If the video stream slows down or speeds up for unknown reasons, you will see it as lip synch and assume an audio problem...

GSB

08-02-05, 05:43 PM

Yes, I was aware of the problems with the Samsung DLP sets. I have an HLN series DLP set and fortunately never experienced any lip sync.Hey, wait a minute. If you have an HLN without the typical lip-sync issue, it must be a "fixed" version. One of the compromises of the "fix", was a constant video delay. To demonstrate it, feed a component 480i signal to your TV and run the audio to the receiver AND the TV. Just listen to the dreadful echo! What's that, you ask? Well, Samsung compensates for the constant video delay by delaying the sound (in the TV speakers) by the same amount as the video. However, the TV is unable to delay the sound fed to the receiver, because it bypasses the TV.

So if we can establish that your TV has a substantial video delay, and if you add that delay to the delays coming from the DVD and player, you have a recipe for VERY noticeable lip-sync problems. This may be why you notice constant, repeatable sync issues more often than others do.

Nevertheless, Oppo should be able to correct the intermittent sync issue and give us more delay options to correct for constant, cumulative delays such as those you are experiencing. Your other players have done this already.

Gary

GSB

08-02-05, 05:46 PM

Makes me wonder if the problem is audio based or video based. If the video stream slows down or speeds up for unknown reasons, you will see it as lip synch and assume an audio problem...It is known to be a video delay, not audio.

Gary

Diarmuid

08-02-05, 05:55 PM

I've been having problems with my Oppo and Sanyo Z2 using PAL here in the UK

Setup:

Oppo DV971 plugged into the UK mains at 50hz/240v, connected via DVI to a Sanyo Z2 projector.

The problem is that both 576p and 720p in PAL mode absolutely refuse to display in the correct aspect ratio. Both resolutions display in a 4:3 space in the middle of the Z2s panels with the images stretched vertically instead of using the full 720 x 1280 pixels on the Z2s panels. 1080i works fine, but the image is noticeably poorer than my old Momitsu V880 doing 720p. What is frustrating is that the Z2 has no option available to the user to enforce PAL mode using DVI input. You have to rely on the projector detecting and syncing correctly. I currently think it is not doing that but to be quite honest I'm at a loss and could use some help from anyone who has some insight.

Many thanks,

D.

BenDover

08-02-05, 06:10 PM

Hey, wait a minute. If you have an HLN without the typical lip-sync issue, it must be a "fixed" version. One of the compromises of the "fix", was a constant video delay. To demonstrate it, feed a component 480i signal to your TV and run the audio to the receiver AND the TV. Just listen to the dreadful echo! What's that, you ask? Well, Samsung compensates for the constant video delay by delaying the sound (in the TV speakers) by the same amount as the video. However, the TV is unable to delay the sound fed to the receiver, because it bypasses the TV.

So if we can establish that your TV has a substantial video delay, and if you add that delay to the delays coming from the DVD and player, you have a recipe for VERY noticeable lip-sync problems. This may be why you notice constant, repeatable sync issues more often than others do.

Nevertheless, Oppo should be able to correct the intermittent sync issue and give us more delay options to correct for constant, cumulative delays such as those you are experiencing. Your other players have done this already.

Gary

Sorry to get you all excited :), however, my HLN is upstairs in my den whereas the Oppo is downstairs in my equipment rack feeding my Qualia 006. I was just acknowledging the known Samsung issues :)

GSB

08-03-05, 02:31 PM

aoleg

08-03-05, 04:56 PM

I have just discovered a feature of the player that allows skipping all the FBI warnings and forced previews (e.g. Shrek2 DVD) altogether. When loading disk, I pressed "Root Menu" several times on the remote (during the "Loading" and "DVD Video" status messages). This leads directly to the root menu of a DVD, bypassing every forced warning and advertisement :)

Randy S

08-03-05, 08:25 PM

This leads directly to the root menu of a DVD, bypassing every forced warning and advertisement Good find! Sounds like a nice feature. :)

Norcuron

08-03-05, 09:28 PM

Hi,

I just bought the 62" DLP Toshiba #62HM15 which can accept 720p or 1080i via HDMI. Which do you guys normally run your Oppo DVI--->HDMI output 720p or 1080i ? I am still experimenting..but am actually still getting the TV setup etc. Thanks for info.

Mark

Paul Bigelow

08-03-05, 09:56 PM

Using 1080i via DVI-->HDMI (but that's because the display doesn't accept 720p). Try both and see.

I think the Toshiba is 720p native so that will probably be the better setting.

Paul

jriihi

08-04-05, 02:48 AM

Dave Mack

08-04-05, 03:44 AM

My oppo gets here monday. I have noticed some sync. issues with my zenith dvb-318. If I pause, scan or chapter skip, it will go wildly out of sync sometimes. Stopping and hitting play again fixes it. Annoying but livable. My reaction to the Oppo will be interesting. :) d

Cricricri

08-04-05, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bob Williams (Infocus engineer)

Using an Accupel HDG-3000 DVI reference DVI signal generator, set to DVI-V luminance levels, I calibrated a ScreenPlay 4805 using the RGB gain and offset controls. These are the values I got:

RGB gains: 58
RGB Offsets: 28, bordering on 29

Note that for the offset control there are steps in between the numbers so that "28, bordering on 29" means that one more click up and the number will change to 29.

These numbers are only correct if your source is sending the correct, unaltered values for luminance from the MPEG stream. I also confirmed that these setting were correct using a Bravo D1 and Avia Guide to Home Theater as the test disc.

"Our" Ja Phule asked:
Bob, A few of us are using the Oppo DVI dvd player that outputs Video DVI standard. Would you recommend that we stick to the 58/28.5 gain/offset and calibrate BTB/WTW using contrast/brightness on the 4805, or calibrate with new gain/offsets (where we get around 58/44), or use your gain/offsets and calibrate the contrast/brightness on the dvd player itself? TIA.

Bob answered:
Without having seen the Oppo player, it sounds to me that the player is not producing the correct offset value (aka brightness) for the video DVI standard. However, since the gain seems to be correct, this should not cause a problem with contouring since no scaling of the brightness values is occuring. Feel free to adjust the projector offset values to compensate for this. Theoretically there should be no image degradation from adjustment of the offset alone.

In some OCD madness, I sent a PM to Oppo asking them to adjust the brightness default to correctly match Accupel's benchmark signal.