I've replayed the scene several times now. Yeah the important thing is that it was shown from his viewpoint and through his cockpit, and he adjusted his look once he saw Starbuck's ship... The Heavy Raider was in fact there... but what was it doing there?
The fortune teller chick,. told starbuck that Leiden would guide her to where, the space between life and death, that could be resurrection space, could he have been in the raider doing some kind of mind meld to get her to die, just so he can down load her to his portable try-corder device, just so he can take her back to Ramulak to have her reconstituted. :eek: :rolleyes: :p

She wouldn't have to necessarily be a Cylon to be "something special".

Indeed ... now just where did the "Lords of K." get off to? ;)

"You're not Leoben"

"I never said I was."

Indeed ... now just where did the "Lords of K." get off to? ;)

"You're not Leoben"

"I never said I was."

In one of the earlier episodes, Baltar had asked Caprica what she was, and IIRC she said, "an angel of God". (Of course, she also said she was a figment of his imagination at one time too.)

However, with all of the references to "god" and "gods" in this show I suspect we are moving with Kara into a more spiritual or supernatural aspect of her "destiny".

There have been some previous posts about the "white ship, or ship of lights" from TOS, and that is what I was tossing around as well. So far, they have re-imaged a number of the items from the original. Maybe we are going to see the angle on angels?

This ep blew hard. I had to endure how many eps of the love triangle for this, oh wait she always had a death wish...then what was the point of the love triangle now that they got rid of it's instigator! And to have your whole life drawing the "eye" to then die in one sucks ass as a destiny.

Starbuck dead. The canopy is still attached when her viper blows.

The raider was real. It did shoot at her (broken window and hole in the cockpit wall behind her) and Apollo gets a glimpse of it just before her viper comes into view.

So if K.Thrace does come back it is either as one of the final five or with these guys...

http://www.universalhartland.com/medium/galctc17.jpg

It can go either way. There is a heavy raider around so it is possible she is in range for a download. There was a lot of white light in her cockpit in her final scenes.

I lean towards the later. Brings in some TOS aspects like Pegasus. Can radically change the direction of the show for next season. Can explain a lot of the head versions of Baltar/Six as well as the Six that appeared on Galactica then disappeared in season 1. They still have Gaeta to reveal the final five :p Also seems more of a destiny fitting to someone who prayed to the LoK a lot and found the arrow. Fits with what the not-Leoben says about not being Leoben hence not a cylon. Also this way the Fleet won't be looking for her if she simply just disappeared. Either way "they are waiting" for her...

She will if shes resurrected as one of the final 5, cant think of anything else.

I would imagine so...not sure about the whole 'ships of light' angle...personally I'd rather not see that aspect of TOS revisited.

Did anyone notice that just before Lee sees her ship at the end he sees the heavy raider first cut across, then it get's obsured by clouds... then he sees Starbuck's ship below... Remember she was fingering the eject... Who's to say she's even dead and needs to be resurrected?

Pressure would have killed her anyway....but the canopy appeared to be closed when the ship blew up.

So this is where you're hiding this thread. I found tonights ep to be more upsetting than Admiral Kane's murder(I almost quit watching after that). Why Starbuck? Kat was annoying but Thrace was family. Would anyone have missed Tigh?

She'll be back...

It's funny to have people mourn her character...I remember when they first announced the casting of the show and Starbuck was a female...fans of the original went ballistic. And now she's a beloved untouchable character :-)

FWIW, I couldn't believe it either...I knew she was ending her run on this season early, but I didn't expect her death to occur the way it did.

She'll be back...

It's funny to have people mourn her character...I remember when they first announced the casting of the show and Starbuck was a female...fans of the original went ballistic. And now she's a beloved untouchable character :-)
Maybe RDM is correcting that casting gaffe... she'll come back in the body of Dirk Bennedict for the fourth season :eek: :eek:
Then he'd really be fracking with us :D

Totally sad to see Starbuck go. Even if Katee Sackhoff comes back, I think the brash Viper pilot known as Starbuck really is dead.

And Katee's performance last night was exceptional. So was Olmos, he really got to me in that last scene.

Totally sad to see Starbuck go. Even if Katee Sackhoff comes back, I think the brash Viper pilot known as Starbuck really is dead.

Even if she does come back, it will not be till Jan/08 that we find out since she is not in the last three episodes, damn long time.

Totally sad to see Starbuck go. Even if Katee Sackhoff comes back, I think the brash Viper pilot known as Starbuck really is dead.




Yeah, the Kara Thrace that returns will likely be something of an all-knowing smart ass cylon that brings up questions with no answers...won't be the same.

On the other hand, what else is there for her character to do? As a human she was a train wreck, hurting everyone she supposedly cared about. She ruined her marriage, friendships, etc. It was getting old watching her be the same old screwup. Who knows, perhaps the new Kara will bring something positive to the table (cough).

Totally sad to see Starbuck go. Even if Katee Sackhoff comes back, I think the brash Viper pilot known as Starbuck really is dead.

And Katee's performance last night was exceptional. So was Olmos, he really got to me in that last scene.

Even though he told her "no longer" after Tigh and her stirred up all the crap in the Pilots lounge, He has always considered Starbuck a extended family member "like a Daughter"

Heck, Even Col. Tigh has grown fond of her as of late!

Even if she does come back, it will not be till Jan/08 that we find out since she is not in the last three episodes, damn long time.

We might be lucky and see her in the Movie that they are working on, that will be out before Season 4. Mind you I have read that this movie might not take place in the current Season 3 --- Season 4 Timeline!

Movie? Huh? There is no bigger fan of the show than me, but I have never heard any talk of a movie. Got a link?

Movie? Huh? There is no bigger fan of the show than me, but I have never heard any talk of a movie. Got a link?

It's been confirmed on several fronts...

Battlestar Galactica - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sci Fi Channel announced in January 2007 that a direct-to-DVD Battlestar Galactica movie will only be produced if the series is renewed for a fourth season. ...

And it got picked up for the 4th season so....

Movie? Huh? There is no bigger fan of the show than me, but I have never heard any talk of a movie. Got a link?

I have posted about the movie several times in this thread over the last 2 months.

Here is a link:

http://www.geekmonthly.com/news/2006/12/28/galactica-direct-to-video-movie-set-to-launch/

Well, ok, thats interesting, but without Starbuck? Man, I don't know.

We might be lucky and see her in the Movie that they are working on, that will be out before Season 4. Mind you I have read that this movie might not take place in the current Season 3 --- Season 4 Timeline!
Oh no a prequel movie. :eek:

Yeah, the Kara Thrace that returns will likely be something of an all-knowing smart ass cylon that brings up questions with no answers...won't be the same.

On the other hand, what else is there for her character to do? As a human she was a train wreck, hurting everyone she supposedly cared about. She ruined her marriage, friendships, etc. It was getting old watching her be the same old screwup. Who knows, perhaps the new Kara will bring something positive to the table (cough).

I like your thinking....hehe! :)
I can see that too. She will be annoying in a whole new "Dimension".... :p

Oh no a prequel movie. :eek:

It will not be a prequael movie. It will take place in the season 2 - 3 area.

There is a prequel Mini Series called "caprica" that has yet to get the green light.

it is the pilot for a Battlestar Galactica Spin off series.

Wow! This ought to satisfy all those who've been whining about "filler episodes" lately. :rolleyes: Don't know how they're going to work their way out of this one.... looks like, if Starbuck survives, she's either a Cylon and got downloaded, or Leoben was there in a heavy raider that somehow has cloaking technology, or just jumped in and out so quickly it never registered on Dradis. She could have ejected at the last moment (don't know about the "cockpit canopy still on" issue) and been picked up by the Raider. She did have a pressure suit on and may have survived if it was only for a few moments.

Either way, looks like we won't find out until January. And does everyone expect SciFi to pick up the "back 7" episodes (previous seasons have all been 20 eps, I believe)...? If not, then it looks like Moore is steering us towards an end-game. :(

Wow! This ought to satisfy all those who've been whining about "filler episodes" lately. :rolleyes: Don't know how they're going to work their way out of this one.... looks like, if Starbuck survives, she's either a Cylon and got downloaded, or Leoben was there in a heavy raider that somehow has cloaking technology, or just jumped in and out so quickly it never registered on Dradis. She could have ejected at the last moment (don't know about the "cockpit canopy still on" issue) and been picked up by the Raider. She did have a pressure suit on and may have survived if it was only for a few moments.

Either way, looks like we won't find out until January. And does everyone expect SciFi to pick up the "back 7" episodes (previous seasons have all been 20 eps, I believe)...? If not, then it looks like Moore is steering us towards an end-game. :(

I'm going to stick with my "something between life and death" experience for her. The Cylons may have gotten the "downloading" technology from some other source. I'm guessing that we may see a "type" of Starbuck without her being a Cylon.

I'm happy that a direct to video movie is happening, and a sort of 4th season. However, as good as this series is, I'd rather it be given a decent arc closure rather than artificially drag it out.

For whatever it's worth, in Ron Moore's podcast, he seems to pretty much indicate that Starbuck is really dead. Many of us have already figured this out but wonder if she'll come back in some other form. He also indicates that he had to make "the call" to Katee Sackhoff and that the whole cast was very upset when they found out. Of course, he could just be full of it.

My guess is that Sackhoff may no longer be a regular cast member. We may see her a few times as a guest star or something.

An amusing little tidbit from the podcast:
When Adama busted the model ship at the end, that was totally unscripted. Olmos just did what he felt was right in the moment. Turns out it was a $100,000 museum-quality ship that the show was just renting! :eek: :D


EDITED to blank out what some considered spoilery. Sorry if I offended anyone.

An amusing little tidbit from the podcast:
When Adama busted the model ship at the end, that was totally unscripted. Olmos just did what he felt was right in the moment. Turns out it was a $100,000 museum-quality ship that the show was just renting! :eek: :D

No fracking way!!!!!! Awesome! :-)

Spoiler spoiler spoiler

I don't mean to be nitpicky, but most consider anything outside the aired episodes themselves that give away major plot points to be spoilers, so I would at the least forwarn people of what you posted above...

For whatever it's worth, in Ron Moore's podcast, he seems to pretty much indicate that Starbuck is really dead.
Dead people on TV have a funny habit of not staying dead if the ratings dip :D :D

We'll see her again, remember for the last three years we've been told she "has a destiny" and she's "special" . No way RDM is gonna punk out on that long running theme.

... So say we all!!

Wow! This ought to satisfy all those who've been whining about "filler episodes" lately. :rolleyes. it looks like Moore is steering us towards an end-game. :(We can only hope its not dragged out for three more years, a quick quality ending would be better, and with "less filler" :rolleyes:

I listen to the podcast as well. Moore basically admitted to killing off Starbuck for the shock value and ended the cast saying there is more story to tell. Which I took to mean Starbuck dead for good and there will be more interesting story stuff to keep us hooked to make up for it.

Though I'm not sure of the wisdom of devoting more time to a show that offs main characters like this. Seems he lost sight of who Starbuck is supposed to be in the Galactica universe, it is not someone (male or female) that commits suicide in a gas giant. Especially while the fleet is still being hunted and is short on vipers. Nor do I understand how the message of this suicidal act is supposed to help the rest of the fleet.

But I'm sure we'll have plenty of filler moments as each character morns for her. Moore filler, Brilliant! NOT!

wow....


the last 5 or 6 threads could be considered spoilers...but I don't care...

I would be shocked, shocked if that's the end of Starbuck. Moore knows a lot of the die-hard fans listen to the podcasts; it's certainly in the realm of possibility he was throwing around disinformation to raise the chatter volume. If Starbuck were to actually die and leave the show for good, I would expect it to be heroically, not in a dreamlike daze with no apparent upside. She'll be back next season, count on it.

"Save the Starbuck.....Save the Audience"

More on the podcast:

I also listened to the podcast--the first time ever, because I hoped to glean a little bit more information about the "why" of the death of Starbuck. What was interesting was that he admits very early on in the first drafts of the episode that Starbuck was supposed to do something suicidal but ultimately heroic that helps point the fleet toward earth. But that he thought that ultimately the whole original draft "didn't end up meaning anything" (paraphrasing). What I don't understand is that they then replaced that line of story with a story that really didn't mean anything. I mean, if she had found something to help the humans find earth, then that would have at least meant something. But as it is, if she is really totally dead, and not coming back, her death really was meaningless.

So where is the "destiny" they've been talking about, that she would simply die in a huge fireball above a gas giant? What was her mom preparing her for??? There has got to me a lot more to the story than just this. Otherwise, we are in Lost territory...

I have to believe there is more to Starbuck's death than what we have seen so far. My initial thoughts were, what a stupid way to die - comitting suicide and wasting a viper in the process? ...what did that accomplish for the story?

Just as I have faith in the Lost producers to tie things together eventually, I have faith that R Moore will do the same. It's been too good so far to waste a major character for nothing.

RDM also basically said that the death of Starbuck was going to help make the overall story move along to it's 3rd phase (paraphrase from his podcast). So, so far RDM has been doing a really good job of the new BSG (personal opinions of character and story lines not withstanding), so lets see where he takes us now. I am really please with where he has gone so far.
My only hope, is that after he finishes with BSG, he moves onto updating Space 1999! :D

I got to give respect to BSG for having the nerve to kill off a non-RedShirter, yet I have an eerie feeling that I've seen the last two episodes of BSG before ... like on B5 (Dock worker strike and "Death-o-Kosh1") ;) :D

My only hope, is that after he finishes with BSG, he moves onto updating Space 1999! :DYour kidding, thats in the works, I loved that show as a teen.

Moore also said that he had no plans for Starbuck dieing before writing this episode. So I don't think her death was absolutely necessary for the overall story arc (getting to Earth) but will now probably tie in some way.

Maybe the fleet finds a huge expanse of black space (no stars) like in TOS and decide to go in because of how Starbuck died and the entrance looks like a mandela. weak. Seems more like the actress wanted off the show and more face time (the love triangle eps) wasn't enough to satisfy her.

Just listened to an interview that Starbuck did for a Portland radio station and seemed to me Starbuck is dead (she clearly said so) and ain't coming back. She said she has no idea when she will be back in Vancouver to film for BSG and was busy with other projects. If she is going to be in season 4, then she should be headed back this summer which is just a few months from now.

In any case, we all get the rest of the year to cool off from Starbuck getting Tasha Yar'd before season 4 airs in Jan '08.

Your kidding, thats in the works, I loved that show as a teen.
Now you are kidding? It is? Any info you have as a link?
I also loved (still do) that show. And several friends also loved it and still do. I have *a-hem* found it and have been watching it lately.

...Tasha Yar'd...

Clever! :D

So as far as anybody knows, this has nothing to do with something stupid like contract disputes, right? This was purely a story-motivated event?

It sounded more like an audacity-motivated event to me. I still think she'll be back, in some form.

Even if it is toward the end of the series run, I think Starbuck will be back. Maybe she ends up being stranded on a planet with a lone cylon and has to learn to live... No wait, they all ready did that. :p

Even if it is toward the end of the series run, I think Starbuck will be back. Maybe she ends up being stranded on a planet with a lone cylon and has to learn to live... No wait, they all ready did that. :p

Funny you should mention that. That was the ONLY episode of *cough* Galactica 1980 *cough* that I actually LIKED!!

Even if it is toward the end of the series run, I think Starbuck will be back. Maybe she ends up being stranded on a planet with a lone cylon and has to learn to live... No wait, they all ready did that. :pYeah, it was called Enemy, Mine. BTW, I still haven't seen the latest ep. My Dish took a dump last week and won't be fixed 'til today :mad:.

The actual episode was called "The Return of Starbuck"
Original Air Date: 4 May 1980

and Enemy, Mine came out in 1985. Maybe they got their idea from BSG 80?

The actual episode was called "The Return of Starbuck"
Original Air Date: 4 May 1980

and Enemy, Mine came out in 1985. Maybe they got their idea from BSG 80?

I've seen them all and like them but I believe "Hell in the Pacific" 1968 w/ Lee Marvin beat them to the idea.

I've seen them all and like them but I believe "Hell in the Pacific" 1968 w/ Lee Marvin beat them to the idea.
That's a great film, it was on one of the HD movie channels about 5-6 mos ago.

I've seen them all and like them but I believe "Hell in the Pacific" 1968 w/ Lee Marvin beat them to the idea.
Right, I had forgot about that movie. It has been 10 - 20 years since I last saw it.

In any case, we all get the rest of the year to cool off from Starbuck getting Tasha Yar'd before season 4 airs in Jan '08.
Denise Crosby asked out of the show because she thought her role was being neglected IIRC, her career went nowhere after TNG.
Has Katee asked out (or for time off) of BSG?

replayrob,

Not that we know of. She indicated in interviews that she was surprised when she read the Maelstrom script.

Here is a link to a page where you can listen to a radio interview she did after Maelstrom aired. Some people may find this interview spoilery.

http://www.cortandfatboy.com/index.php?id=489

I've seen them all and like them but I believe "Hell in the Pacific" 1968 w/ Lee Marvin beat them to the idea.I loved that film as a kid; that's when movies were movies. I remember it being spoofed once (Mad magazine, I think).

I loved that film as a kid; that's when movies were movies. I remember it being spoofed once (Mad magazine, I think).

They even did this on Black Sheep Squadron (We are poor little lambs....and we have LOST OUR WAY....BAAAA....BAAAA...BAAAA), where Robert Conrad's Pappy and his Japanese nemesis are both shot down and are alone together on an island.

But the Starbuck Returns ep was great, copy or not.

That reminds me; The Six-Million-Dollar Man did it in an episode also. He was somehow stranded on an island with an asian fellow who thought a war was still being fought. BTW, the shows I mentioned, I saw as a kid.....so I'm not as old as I may sound. :p

Confirmed Edward James Olmos does a bit of improv acting in recent "Battlestar Galactica" episode, destroys prop model ship in fit of rage.

http://www.metafilter.com/mirror/Eddie-Dont.html

Good stuff

That reminds me; The Six-Million-Dollar Man did it in an episode also. He was somehow stranded on an island with an asian fellow who thought a war was still being fought. BTW, the shows I mentioned, I saw as a kid.....so I'm not as old as I may sound. :p

I remember that one...he did another episode with that same character (Japanese Officer) later on in the series. He enlisted his help in tracking/finding/taming...the WOLF BOY. :-)

replayrob,

Not that we know of. She indicated in interviews that she was surprised when she read the Maelstrom script.

Here is a link to a page where you can listen to a radio interview she did after Maelstrom aired. Some people may find this interview spoilery.

http://www.cortandfatboy.com/index.php?id=489

I listened to that piece and here's my take (I'll spoiler-tag it just in case):

Katee said she's been interviewed for a pilot on NBC (so she would no longer be working for "chump change"), and the guys guessed it was 'The Bionic Woman'. She tried to deflect it by saying that the lead character has already been cast, and it ain't her. Fair enough, but they are adding a "new" character to the Bionic canon - a sister! Could this have been the part Katee is up for?

I listened to that piece and here's my take (I'll spoiler-tag it just in case):

Katee said she's been interviewed for a pilot on NBC (so she would no longer be working for "chump change"), and the guys guessed it was 'The Bionic Woman'. She tried to deflect it by saying that the lead character has already been cast, and it ain't her. Fair enough, but they are adding a "new" character to the Bionic canon - a sister! Could this have been the part Katee is up for?

Yes, but:



She also states that the reason she wasn't considered for any leads is due to that fact that she still has a contract with Universal for BSG, she can be recalled at any time. So in my mind, that just makes me think that she'll be back. :-)

Yes, but:



She also states that the reason she wasn't considered for any leads is due to that fact that she still has a contract with Universal for BSG, she can be recalled at any time. So in my mind, that just makes me think that she'll be back. :-)



Yes but....

if her contract was so ironclad and she is coming back to BSG she wouldn't even bother auditioning for permanent roles. She would just show up to her BSG trailer and collect her check and do the odd guest role or two. She ain't in the credits anymore. It seemed more like a technicality that had yet to be worked out. Also BSG and the new show are under the same parent company NBC-Universal.

If Starbuck turns out to be a cylon, I'll be disappointed. Latr.

Yes but....

if her contract was so ironclad and she is coming back to BSG she wouldn't even bother auditioning for permanent roles. She would just show up to her BSG trailer and collect her check and do the odd guest role or two. She ain't in the credits anymore. It seemed more like a technicality that had yet to be worked out. Also BSG and the new show are under the same parent company NBC-Universal.



Ok, but:


Actors get paid per episode (opening credits or not), so of course she has to go out and get more work, regardless of whether or not she's coming back. I doubt she'll be a series regular on BSG again, but I have no doubt in my mind that she'll come back for several 'guest' spots next season. The whole point of my reasoning is that Starbuck isn't 'dead'...she'll be back in some form.

In keeping with the spoiler nature of Katee speculation....
If Katee is actually leaving BSG, it's not that uncommon for unhappy actors to buy their way out of contracts they're no longer interested in fulfilling. Or, she could broker a deal in which for reduced pay she would only do "X" number of episodes of BSG per year at a reduced salary but not be exclusive to Universal any longer.
Maybe she knows something about BSG that we don't and wants out before the show ends? I doubt it's all about the money she gets now, most actors want security and longevity not just a quick one shot deal. Maybe Sci-Fi's luke warm commitment to only 13 episodes next season has soured her on the whole BSG series. If nothing else, she certainly can't complain about lack of camera time or having a small roll in the series...

In keeping with the spoiler nature of Katee speculation....
If Katee is actually leaving BSG, it's not that uncommon for unhappy actors to buy their way out of contracts they're no longer interested in fulfilling. Or, she could broker a deal in which for reduced pay she would only do "X" number of episodes of BSG per year at a reduced salary but not be exclusive to Universal any longer.
Maybe she knows something about BSG that we don't and wants out before the show ends? I doubt it's all about the money she gets now, most actors want security and longevity not just a quick one shot deal. Maybe Sci-Fi's luke warm commitment to only 13 episodes next season has soured her on the whole BSG series. If nothing else, she certainly can't complain about lack of camera time or having a small roll in the series...




The problem with that line of reasoning is once again:$$. Actors get paid for every episode they appear in, not every episode that is produced. So if they produce 13 BSG eps next season, and she appears in 3, she gets paid for 3, not 13. She has to find other work to maintain her 'quality of life'. And of course she'll want security, so why not permanent roles?

But it's not that she didn't audition for *lead* roles, she simply wasn't considered for them because of her contract with Universal. Noone wanted to hire her as their lead and then get her snatched away for a 5 ep contractual commitment to BSG. For example, if she were hired as Wonder Woman being called back to BSG would be a disaster for the WonderWoman production team. But if she were simply the sidekick, she could disappear for 5 eps with no real problem.

I sincerely doubt she wanted off the show, she had a good thing with BSG. Critical acclaim, paycheck, etc. As far as the series ending...well they all eventually do. As tight knit as that group appears to be, why would she want out early? She couln't have thought they'd let her out of her contract...when have they ever done that?

She simply lost her job as a result of the producers/writers story direction. I'm CERTAIN she'll be back as Kara Thrace, but she still has to pay the bills...

As a fan of the show I just hope the payoff for that storyline is worth the trouble they went through to achieve it. Killing off a major character in the midst of a 'great destiny' storyline is asking the fans to have faith that they know what they are doing. Thus far they have, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now.

But if Season 4 comes along and Kara come back with some lame (the cylons kidnapped me) story then it will be a real letdown and not worth the trouble.

not sure why you have spoilers around stuff you are just making up.

BTW I don't think it is an only per episode thing because it would get abusive. How can an actor eat if they aren't written into any eps but can't find other work because of the contract.

lastly, there is a video of a Tv guide interview with the BSG cast doing a photo shoot for TV guide magazine. Starbuck gives a spoiler about season 3. Seems like a joke at the time but given whats happened.....

I'm not saying anything but it's out there if you want to look.

I've seen that video, mellowman. It's also in the Season 3 Gag Reel, which can be found on YouTube and is very funny. Yeah, I assumed she was joking, too. And I think she was because I don't think she knew about it at the time.

I've seen that video, mellowman. It's also in the Season 3 Gag Reel, which can be found on YouTube and is very funny. Yeah, I assumed she was joking, too. And I think she was because I don't think she knew about it at the time.

Yea, possible. She has the new caprica hairdoo, so early season 3. But it is also possible she already had the "talk" with producers/writers about what happens to her character.

It also possible it was planned and meant to misdirect. It also possible she was making up the first part of it to put pressure on the writers/producers.

It just cuts too close to easily dismiss has just a simple joke though given the world of possibilities to chose from.

not sure why you have spoilers around stuff you are just making up.

BTW I don't think it is an only per episode thing because it would get abusive. How can an actor eat if they aren't written into any eps but can't find other work because of the contract.



The spoilers are there because we're discussing the podcast, which is considered a spoiler.

The LOST cast definitely has the 'per episode' thing going, it was in several interviews with the producers. So it's not like it isn't a standard practice on an ensemble show.

Actors have to be paid (not per episode they are in,) but for every episode that there name is in the Credits. IE> if there name is in the credits, then they got paid. Simple as that.

as for LOST, yes they all have a clause that states they can be released from said contract at any time, and they all understood this.

Actors have to be paid (not per episode they are in,) but for every episode that there name is in the Credits. IE> if there name is in the credits, then they got paid. Simple as that.

as for LOST, yes they all have a clause that states they can be released from said contract at any time, and they all understood this.

No they only get paid for episodes in which they appear...not the credits.

They all got HUGE increases, but part of it was the stipulation that the raise only applies to eps they appear in.

I'll find the link and post it.

No they only get paid for episodes in which they appear...not the credits.

They all got HUGE increases, but part of it was the stipulation that the raise only applies to eps they appear in.

I'll find the link and post it.


sorry but your WRONG:

If there name is in the Credits, then they are paid.

This is required by both Canadian and USA ASG association.


Google is your friend, use it!

sorry but your WRONG:

If there name is in the Credits, then they are paid.

This is required by both Canadian and USA ASG association.


Google is your friend, use it!

LOL Save the condescension for newbies please. I already said I'd search for the link and post it.

Found the link, and yes I apparently misinterpreted the meaning. It had been a while since I'd read it.

I looked up the link finally (it had been a while) and it goes back to Season 2 when the entire cast got salary bumps and renegotiated contracts. The salary bump put them up on the same level as Desperate Housewives and Grey's Anatomy. It also released ABC/Touchstone from any long term obligations. So if they are credited for 3 eps and get killed off, the get paid for the 3 eps and that's it. Other series/contracts allow for the actor/actress to get paid for the full season, regardless of how many episodes they appear in/credited.

Great tradeoff if your character survives, crappy if they don't :-)

Here's the link (http://entertainment.tv.yahoo.com/entnews/va/20060123/113800817300.html)

The Cylons have had quite a bit of time with Starbuck, both in the Caprica hospital and on New Caprica. I believe this is a continuation of those events, very much tied with finding what is between life and death.

My guess is that the Cylons have just performed their first resurrection experiment on a human, and it will not go well.

Not bad Carl.....That seems to make sense when thinking about ron's comments on Kara having a life altering experiance.

Not bad Carl.....That seems to make sense when thinking about ron's comments on Kara having a life altering experiance.

hmm, some would say being blown up in a viper is a life altering experience regardless of cyclon rescue/abduction, ship of light peeps or entering the afterlife (or lack thereof).

if it turns out to be a cyclon abduction I think I will laugh and stop watching.

I swear I heard Starbuck say "Beam me up Scotty" just before the Viper exploded!

;)

semi-average episode...not much plot movement...however Mark Sheppard (Badger from Firefly) was awesome...always will be...great actor

I actually watched the preview and THAT is how previews should be done...not plot giveaways, just an enticing scene that makes you want to watch...zero spoilers...that was a SOLID preview...

Sort of a transitional episode. Kind of disappointing after last week. I'm glad they showed some aftermath from Starbuck's death. With this show, when someone dies, they usually forget about it by the next episode. Anyway, I like Mark Sheppard a lot and I think he'll be a solid addition for however long he stays on the show.

Was it just my hearing, or was the dialog especially difficult to understand? The dialog between Lee and Baltar's attorney was especially hard to follow.

^^ My thoughts exactly.
But next weeks looks good. Husher and Apollo at it again.

Was it just my hearing, or was the dialog especially difficult to understand? The dialog between Lee and Baltar's attorney was especially hard to follow.

Yeah I rewound about 100 times this episode, and there was still lots I couldn't understand even after listening to it multiple times.

I didn't notice any issues with audio on my system.

I felt this was the first good episode in about a month. Good thing too, because I almost deleted my season pass after last week.

semi-average episode...not much plot movement...however Mark Sheppard (Badger from Firefly) was awesome...always will be...great actor
Didn't recgonize him at first with the sunglasses on, but as soon as he took them off I said.. Badger! Mark Sheppard is just good at being bad. It's his thick accent that makes it a bit difficult to make out what he's saying, it was the same way when he was on Firefly.

Looks like Racetrack (Leah Cairns- http://imdb.com/name/nm1489668/) is getting more face time now, which is a good thing... I could look at her all day long :D :D

As mentioned eariler... I see Katee's name isn't on the opening credits any longer. It's the first time in three years I've watched the credits.

Was it just my hearing, or was the dialog especially difficult to understand? The dialog between Lee and Baltar's attorney was especially hard to follow.
Yeah, I started complaining about dialogue audio problems generally a few pages back:

Finally, I have a question. Is anyone else experiencing the difficulty I've been having of late with clearly discerning the lines of dialogue in this show? I've actually taken to watching BSG recently with CC on, so I don't have to keep rewinding the DVR and thinking "WTF did (fill-in the blank) just say?"
Now, I’ve gotten into the habit of just leaving the closed captioning on, so I know EXACTLY what they’re saying and don’t have to work my way through the episode a 2d time.

Yep, the episode almost seemed tailored to be a tour de force for Mark Sheppard, and he was terrific. :cool: When does Adam Baldwin get his shot? :)

Umm, BTW, is there some reason why nobody’s talking about the extra scene, where Athena suggests Callie was part of the plot to blow up Romo and probably Athena as well??

_______________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Didn't recgonize him at first with the sunglasses on, but as soon as he took them off I said.. Badger! Mark Sheppard is just good at being bad. It's his thick accent that makes it a bit difficult to make out what he's saying, it was the same way when he was on Firefly.

Looks like Racetrack (Leah Cairns- http://imdb.com/name/nm1489668/) is getting more face time now, which is a good thing... I could look at her all day long :D :D

As mentioned eariler... I see Katee's name isn't on the opening credits any longer. It's the first time in three years I've watched the credits.

The number of survivors was 41,400 and was listed as 41,399 this week. Also, not so subtle!

What was interesting about the 41,399 was that the original Baltar lawyer died before the credits. So, it should've been down two from last week. I'm pretty sure in the past the number has reflected action up to the moment, including the part of the show before the credits. *[Insert Twilight Zone theme here]*

Of course, I guess you could just assume that a baby was born somewhere in the fleet. But I choose to live in denial. :)

What was interesting about the 41,399 was that the original Baltar lawyer died before the credits. So, it should've been down two from last week. I'm pretty sure in the past the number has reflected action up to the moment, including the part of the show before the credits. *[Insert Twilight Zone theme here]*

Of course, I guess you could just assume that a baby was born somewhere in the fleet. But I choose to live in denial. :)

Interesting point. They probably threw that in for fun to provoke the, "But wait.. that could mean that Starbuck.......!!!!"

Umm, BTW, is there some reason why nobody’s talking about the extra scene, where Athena suggests Callie was part of the plot to blow up Romo and probably Athena as well??
It was an interesting scene, too bad it was cut from the main program. Wonder if it happened before or after the scene where a bunch of the pilots and deck crew are sitting on the flight deck talking about the bombs and Callie said something like "we don't all get 2nd or 3rd chances" looking directly at Athena (at which point Athena gets up and leaves the discussion area). Callie is becoming more and more annoying by the episode.... mybe she should hook up with Helo- they would certainly be voted "most annoying couple" in the fleet. :D :D

I loved the bonus scene! I really wish it had been included. It's about time someone put that little whiny girl in her place.

Slightly OT: Tricia Helfer is on this week's episode of Supernatural..

The Cylons have already reached Earth!

Slightly OT: Tricia Helfer is on this week's episode of Supernatural..

The Cylons have already reached Earth!
I'm going to check it out, just want to see her play a human for a change! :D

I'm going to check it out, just want to see her play a human for a change! :D

I have Supernatural in regular recording rotation, but I'll be watching especially closely to see if they have any tongue-in-cheek BSG reference. :)

Yeah I rewound about 100 times this episode, and there was still lots I couldn't understand even after listening to it multiple times.

Ditto for the communications to/from ships. That distortion they lay on it has rendered that dialog utterly unrecongizable.

Wow, I believe I am actually tired after watching the latest eps. Not the oh-my-gods-that-was-frakin-awesome tired, but the uh-did-anything-remotely-important-happen tired.

Well, a pretty important character died in the last episode. I thought that was kinda big. But I know what you mean with this one - just the introduction of a new character and setup for more Lee/Adama tension, but no big action. The preview that's online at SciFi's site for this next episode actually looks good, though, I think.

Anyone notice that all the important documents, paper, etc. in the series has the corners cut off so it is not an angle? Is there a reason for this, does it symbolize something?

Anyone notice that all the important documents, paper, etc. in the series has the corners cut off so it is not an angle? Is there a reason for this, does it symbolize something?

All the papers/printouts I've seen on Galactica have that 'no corners' cut...dunno why....

Anyone notice that all the important documents, paper, etc. in the series has the corners cut off so it is not an angle? Is there a reason for this, does it symbolize something?

I remembered reading this earlier somewhere. So I did a quick search.

From IMBD:

Paper in the series have corners cut off. It is said that director Michael Rymer did this during the miniseries as a reference to how he had to "cut corners" financially to make the miniseries work on a limited budget.

http://imdb.com/title/tt0407362/trivia

David Eick also mentions it in one of his behind the scenes video blogs. He mentioned that they did it in the miniseries to make the society look "different" than our own, and it kind of pisses him off, because now, to stay true to the BSG universe, all paper and books now have to have those corners cut off, which is a big pain in the butt to do, apparently.

I thought last night's episode was excellent. Baltar's lawyers was great (although I too had difficulty understanding what he was saying--at one point, he says something like, "and then they'll find out Baltar's pregnant..." or something like that, and my wife and I were like, "what did he just say???" Obviously, he didn't mean Baltar was really pregnant, but he apparently meant something else, but even after rewinding and listening again, I still couldn't make out what he said, not to mention understand what he meant.

There was a lot of really good tension layered throughout the episode, and yet the brief connection between Apollo and Anders at the end was really touching. Baltar's lawyer is wickedly smart, and almost puts Baltar to shame (doesn't Baltar appear to be losing it???)

As a side note, the funny thing about Baltar, yes--he is supposed to be the smartest person and although everyone revered him as being this genius, he really played an idiot at times, didn't he? Most of what he knew he learned from his phantom six.

.... Baltar's lawyer is wickedly smart, and almost puts Baltar to shame (doesn't Baltar appear to be losing it???)

As a side note, the funny thing about Baltar, yes--he is supposed to be the smartest person and although everyone revered him as being this genius, he really played an idiot at times, didn't he? Most of what he knew he learned from his phantom six.

Gaius has never seemed particularly well balanced to me :eek:

...and by the way were IS his phantom #6 these days?
She's welcoming Starbuck, in the place between life and death.

Baltar's lawyers was great .. at one point, he says something like, "and then they'll find out Baltar's pregnant..." or something like that, and my wife and I were like, "what did he just say???" Obviously, he didn't mean Baltar was really pregnant, but he apparently meant something else, but even after rewinding and listening again, I still couldn't make out what he said, not to mention understand what he meant.
He was referring to the delay in getting the supporting case documents from Colonial One- "and then they'll find out Baltar's pregnant... by the time I get those documents".

Entertainment weekly had a blurb about this show. They said if anyone has been dissapointed in the show this season and thought it was slow or off pace, to stay tune, because the last two episodes kick it into high gear and they said they were excellent. They said a lot is revealed and resolved. Cool, can't wait!

Entertainment weekly had a blurb about this show. They said if anyone has been dissapointed in the show this season and thought it was slow or off pace, to stay tune, because the last two episodes kick it into high gear and they said they were excellent. They said a lot is revealed and resolved. Cool, can't wait!

That's actually a disturbing trend these days, where shows kick off the season with 3 fantastic eps and end it the same way...but then we get stuck with 'filler' eps in between.

I wouldn't characterize this season that way completely, but they set the bar so FRACKING high with the first 3 episodes, I guess there was nowhere to go but down.

She's welcoming Starbuck, in the place between life and death.

You may actually be right! :D

Wow, I believe I am actually tired after watching the latest eps. Not the oh-my-gods-that-was-frakin-awesome tired, but the uh-did-anything-remotely-important-happen tired.

I feel that way about every episode since they've left New Caprica. Racist Doctor episodes. Boxing episodes. Who's sleeping with who's husband/wife episodes. And mentally unstable Starbuck episodes. ALL boring filler with no point. I've been aching for them to get to Baltar and Caprica 6. They FINALLY did that last night. Frankly I think Baltar and Caprica 6 in Galactica's Brig, could have easily filled at least a third of the season's episodes. And the Baltar/6 story line would have easily been far more interesting than "Racist Doctor/Boxing/Who's sleeping with who's husband/wife/mentally unstable Starbuck" episodes.

They seemed to put a lot of focus on the pen that made it's way around. Caprica 6 sure seemed to dig it.
I wonder if there is any significance, other than the symbolism?

That pen has been in somebody's bum. I just know it! :p

I don't really get all the complaining about the slower paced plot. I don't think the exciting episodes would be as exciting and riveting if we had that every week. Think of TOS cylons attack or land on a planet every week....yawn or think of 24 (i don't mean to offend) but that show tries to give you an adrenaline rush every episode. It got old for me by the forth episode, everything seemed to have a forced urgency. I believe they need the slower eps. with all the character development and insights on life in the fleet. That way it means something when something extraordinary happens.

I personally like the last eps. You really got to see a true genius pull apollo's strings, and I am interested in seeing how that plays out.

oh and i thought that the count was 41,401 last week and this week it was 41,399. One for starbuck and one for the lawyer

I agree. Great episode, certainly beats the inexplicable one the preceded it (unless that one gets resolved logically in an upcoming episode). Good plot, topical, thought provoking.

I don't really get all the complaining about the slower paced plot. I don't think the exciting episodes would be as exciting and riveting if we had that every week. Think of TOS cylons attack or land on a planet every week....yawn or think of 24 (i don't mean to offend) but that show tries to give you an adrenaline rush every episode. It got old for me by the forth episode, everything seemed to have a forced urgency. I believe they need the slower eps. with all the character development and insights on life in the fleet. That way it means something when something extraordinary happens.

I personally like the last eps. You really got to see a true genius pull apollo's strings, and I am interested in seeing how that plays out.

Er, '24' is kicking butts in it's ratings, so I don't really get your analogy. Besides, I'm not complaining about 'slow' episodes'. I'm complaining about totally irrelevant episodes. Did we really need an entire ep centered around a Boxing Ring? The point of that ep could have been worked into a more substantive ep, chewing up less than 10 minutes. Same with the all the love triangle eps. Instead of 3 episodes devoted almost entirely to Starbuck's and Apollo's lust for each other, it would have served much better to let it 'simmer' in the background, rearing it's head from time to time while paying attention to more pertainate story lines, throughout the entire season. And I still don't see ANY point in the 'Racist Doctor' episode. The doctor himself was a character no one knew, or cared about. Same with the 'race' of people he was murdering. Again, all of this non-relevant crap has been going on when there were far more urgent, and interesting story lines brewing, such as Baltar and Caprica 6, and now I feel we're going to get short changed on that front due to the fact that the season is winding down and they've wasted so much time.

Again, all of this non-relevant crap has been going on when there were far more urgent, and interesting story lines brewing, such as Baltar and Caprica 6, and now I feel we're going to get short changed on that front due to the fact that the season is winding down and they've wasted so much time.Couldn't agree more.

If the season-ending cliffhanger is something to do with Baltar's trial, I will cease watching this show. It has gotten to the point where we tune in most weeks to see a BSG episode whose events have very little to do with those in the previous episode. Episodes are written to stand on their own, requiring little to no knowledge of previous episodes, as you'd expect of a low-budget series intended for cable syndication. Battlestar Galactica has become more and more like the Star Trek series in that regard; very little flows from one episode to the next.

I want exciting, edge-of-your seat episodes every week like NBC has given us lately with Heroes. I want episodes with some semblance of a continuous story line. When I tune in, I want be rewarded with something that actually happens, i.e. progress in a linear storyline, not some random side-story with new characters that will never be seen or heard from again.

Couldn't agree more.

If the season-ending cliffhanger is something to do with Baltar's trial, I will cease watching this show. It has gotten to the point where we tune in most weeks to see a BSG episode whose events have very little to do with those in the previous episode. Episodes are written to stand on their own, requiring little to no knowledge of previous episodes, as you'd expect of a low-budget series intended for cable syndication. Battlestar Galactica has become more and more like the Star Trek series in that regard; very little flows from one episode to the next.
I want exciting, edge-of-your seat episodes every week like NBC has given us lately with Heroes. I want episodes with some semblance of a continuous story line. When I tune in, I want be rewarded with something that actually happens, i.e. progress in a linear storyline, not some random side-story with new characters that will never be seen or heard from again.


Yes. It's as if the writers decided they needed to do their 'civic duty' and write an episode that says, "racism bad". But since they didn't want to throw a known character under the racism bus, they had to come up with a sacrificial lamb that no one knows or cares about. I also think that this season the writers have skirted too close to current events. Again, trying to interject their personal beliefs and viewpoints unnecessarily into the show. I watch shows like BSG to escape from real life. Otherwise I'd watch the News. Besides, racism is brilliantly addressed throughout the series everytime a Cylon is thrown out of an air lock.


Let's keep the show about the strugle against the Cylons and the survivors of Caprica. Forget the 'Public Service Announcements'. The lack of this kind of crap is what made shows like HBO's 'The Sopranos', 'Deadwood', and 'Rome', great. It's also what made BSG exceptional for the first two seasons. If I wanted to be preached to every week, I'd still be watching 'E.R.'

oh and i thought that the count was 41,401 last week and this week it was 41,399. One for starbuck and one for the lawyer

Nope. The previous count was 41,400. People over at the SciFi board noticed the discrepancy, too. Most people decided that a baby must have been born. Seems like a weird time to throw a random baby in there, when they knew everyone would be paying attention to the count this week.

"Seems like a weird time to throw a random baby in there, when they knew everyone would be paying attention to the count this week"

seems like the perfect time to mess with people who track these things!

Nope. The previous count was 41,400. People over at the SciFi board noticed the discrepancy, too. Most people decided that a baby must have been born. Seems like a weird time to throw a random baby in there, when they knew everyone would be paying attention to the count this week.

Everyone?? I hadn't even noticed the discrepancy until it was pointed out on these boards.

Maybe I'm missing something, but it makes perfect sense to me. The population count always reflects the situation at the end of the last episode. The count was 41,400 prior to "Maelstrom". Then Starbuck "died". That's minus 1. So at the beginning of the next ep, it's 41,399, as it should be. This Sunday's ep should be 41,398 to reflect the death of Baltar's first lawyer (absent any births in the fleet). Where's the beef? :confused:

Maybe I'm missing something, but it makes perfect sense to me. The population count always reflects the situation at the end of the last episode. The count was 41,400 prior to "Maelstrom". Then Starbuck "died". That's minus 1. So at the beginning of the next ep, it's 41,399, as it should be. This Sunday's ep should be 41,398 to reflect the death of Baltar's first lawyer (absent any births in the fleet). Where's the beef? :confused:

I think it is more trying to decide whether the writers are playing mind games with us, and provoking just this sort of speculation.

I believe that if you play the episode backwards, you can clearly hear Apollo say, "I buried Paul". ;)

Maybe I'm missing something, but it makes perfect sense to me. The population count always reflects the situation at the end of the last episode. The count was 41,400 prior to "Maelstrom". Then Starbuck "died". That's minus 1. So at the beginning of the next ep, it's 41,399, as it should be. This Sunday's ep should be 41,398 to reflect the death of Baltar's first lawyer (absent any births in the fleet). Where's the beef? :confused:

I think the beef is that in previous episodes the count included those who "died" during the intro before the main title/credits/theme music. The lawyer dude got bigbadaboomed in the ass in the intro so he should be included in the count.

I think the beef is that in previous episodes the count included those who "died" during the intro before the main title/credits/theme music. The lawyer dude got bigbadaboomed in the ass in the intro so he should be included in the count.

...and that is the fun part. If so, then Kara isn't "dead" dead. She's sort of dead. Babylon 5 reference spoiler: Like John Sheridan in the ZaHaDum episode where he was between "tick" and "tock" on the clock. ;)

...and that is the fun part. If so, then Kara isn't "dead" dead. She's sort of dead. Babylon 5 reference spoiler: Like John Sheridan in the ZaHaDum episode where he was between "tick" and "tock" on the clock. ;)

you say interesting, I say annoying. I'm sure they put less time into creating these little mind fraks than we do talking about them. Just wish they would direct a lot of this energy in misdirection/obfuscation into telling a better story.

Couldn't agree more.

If the season-ending cliffhanger is something to do with Baltar's trial, I will cease watching this show. It has gotten to the point where we tune in most weeks to see a BSG episode whose events have very little to do with those in the previous episode. Episodes are written to stand on their own, requiring little to no knowledge of previous episodes, as you'd expect of a low-budget series intended for cable syndication. Battlestar Galactica has become more and more like the Star Trek series in that regard; very little flows from one episode to the next.

I want exciting, edge-of-your seat episodes every week like NBC has given us lately with Heroes. I want episodes with some semblance of a continuous story line. When I tune in, I want be rewarded with something that actually happens, i.e. progress in a linear storyline, not some random side-story with new characters that will never be seen or heard from again.

Well said!!

I have a vision of Adama slamming the writers against the bulkhead, threatening to personally blow their fraking heads off if they don't get back to doing their job right!

Anyone notice that all the important documents, paper, etc. in the series has the corners cut off so it is not an angle? Is there a reason for this, does it symbolize something?

You know the story is getting boring when we start worrying about how the paper is cut...

...and that is the fun part. If so, then Kara isn't "dead" dead. She's sort of dead. Babylon 5 reference spoiler: Like John Sheridan in the ZaHaDum episode where he was between "tick" and "tock" on the clock. ;)

And why not ... I've noticed several attempts to "re-image" B5 episodes this season ... I don't know if the writers are doing it purposely or if it's a sub-conscious thing. ;) :D

And why not ... I've noticed several attempts to "re-image" B5 episodes this season ... I don't know if the writers are doing it purposely or if it's a sub-conscious thing. ;) :D

Wouldn't that be a hoot though if they could do a crossover, like Kara wakes up and Lorien is there, or she winds up on the Vorlon homeworld.

Wouldn't that be a hoot though if they could do a crossover, like Kara wakes up and Lorien is there, or she winds up on the Vorlon homeworld.
That would be cool they can find earth and they wouldn't be swinging from trees, they could defend themselves from the Cylons.

That would be cool they can find earth and they wouldn't be swinging from trees, they could defend themselves from the Cylons.
.... or an Earth where the apes talk and the humans are mute! :eek:

"Get your filthy claw off me you damn smelly Cylon!"

Viper pilot based on Earth

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/crazypilotxa0.jpg

Viper pilot based on Earth

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/crazypilotxa0.jpg
LOL!

Viper pilot based on Earth

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/crazypilotxa0.jpg

STARBUCK reborn on Earth via the gas giant worm hole theory!

She's on the mic calling Sam for a booty call! woo hoo haa ha...

Just a heads up...watch what you read there are now plenty of spoilers out there.....

Just a heads up...watch what you read there are now plenty of spoilers out there.....

Link! Link! :D

I really really really really really really suggest that you do not read this. I did and regret it! Here it is!! (http://www.aintitcool.com/node/31923)

I haven't read it and won't. It's been making its way around the Internet for over a week. Ron Moore's wife posted over at the SciFi board that he is pretty upset about it. Apparently, whatever is at that link gives away the whole finale. So, yeah, don't read it unless you want to be completely spoiled!

There was a whole thread over there debating whether or not they should send screeners out to press because that's evidently how all this got out.

Unless you are trying to use the information to ruin someone else's day, why would you want to read the spoilers? Wouldn't it completely ruin the finale?

So how many more episodes are there for this season?

Two. And they're supposedly blockbusters along the lines of the New Caprica reboot. I can't wait! (And I won't be checking out any spoilers, thankewverymuch. Keep 'em off of this thread, please.)

Two. And they're supposedly blockbusters along the lines of the New Caprica reboot. I can't wait! (And I won't be checking out any spoilers, thankewverymuch. Keep 'em off of this thread, please.)

Thank you. And yes! Keep all spoilers off this thread! It is a bit exciting to finally get a couple of 'meaty' episodes after weeks of 'filler'.

Thank you. And yes! Keep all spoilers off this thread! It is a bit exciting to finally get a couple of 'meaty' episodes after weeks of 'filler'.

I kind of liked the filler eps. I realize they can't hit it out of the park every week; their resources are limited. But even a mediocre episode of BSG puts most everything else on the tube to shame. And the really great ones, well, they're worth waiting for.

I really hope SciFi picks up the "back 7" next year. What, they think 'Painkiller Jane' and 'Eurika' are better investments in programming? :rolleyes:

I kind of liked the filler eps. I realize they can't hit it out of the park every week; their resources are limited. But even a mediocre episode of BSG puts most everything else on the tube to shame. And the really great ones, well, they're worth waiting for.

I really hope SciFi picks up the "back 7" next year. What, they think 'Painkiller Jane' and 'Eurika' are better investments in programming? :rolleyes:

Maybe--I bet they're a lot cheaper to make.

Wouldn't that be a hoot though if they could do a crossover, like Kara wakes up and Lorien is there, or she winds up on the Vorlon homeworld.
Oh great, then Kara will have to decide if she has anything worth living for or if she has anything worth dying for. Or the Vorlon's would ask who are you and the shadow's would ask her what she does she want.

I think I will just wait beyond the rim for this one. :p

I've seen the spoiler stuff. You think you're complaining now? Wait till after the last episode! Enough said!

Vorlons and shadows, I KNEW they were involved!

Did we just see who we thought we saw in the bar?

^^ Who was that? I didn't notice.

^^ Who was that? I didn't notice.

If you are DVRing, re-play the scene in the bar.

If you are DVRing, re-play the scene in the bar.
I'm not. :( But if you mean Kara's widower (forget his name at this moment), then ya. And in uniform and having drinks with Racetrack.

If you are DVRing, re-play the scene in the bar.

who was it? I just deleted mine...you can mark it with spoilers if you want...


ugh...what a tempting episode...like a small taste before the main course...a teaser if you will...I hate it when they do that.

Mark Sheppard, again, was absolutely incredible...

Next week is a long way away

I'm not. :( But if you mean Kara's widower (forget his name at this moment), then ya. And in uniform and having drinks with Racetrack.

Actually it was just before that. I'll put it temporarily in spoiler space:

I could swear I saw either Starbuck, or someone who looked just like her walking passed the bar! I was wondering if anyone else saw that, or is it just the after effects of the Kamala I'm taking???? :eek:

Actually it was just before that. I'll put it temporarily in spoiler space:

I could swear I saw either Starbuck, or someone who looked just like her walking passed the bar! I was wondering if anyone else saw that, or is it just the after effects of the Kamala I'm taking???? :eek:

we're definitely gonna need a screenshot of that...

Actually it was just before that. I'll put it temporarily in spoiler space:

<removed> :eek:
I could have sworn I saw the same thing, but thought I was on crack or something. :p

But one thing I did notice, was when Tigh was turning the radio, he was trying to pull in 1 frequency, and from where he was, Kara's widower said you are almost there. So they both could hear it. And then Tigh at the end listening to the wall, saying it was in the ship, well, I am thinking that the Cylon's managed to put a tracking system onto the Galactica itself and hide it pretty good.
Now the question is WHEN did they put it there and who did it?

The bigger question is why can Anders, Tory, and Tigh hear it?

It could be that since their stint on New Caprica and being in the resistance there, that they are just more aware?
Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean that they aren't out to get you! :p

we're definitely gonna need a screenshot of that...

I don't have a video capture card, but here is a picture I took of the screen. Not the best, but who does the person to the right look like?

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/3843/sb1pq1.png

This happens at around the 30 minute mark. Racetrack has just thrown the ball in the bar.

Peter, I'll check it out tonight when I get home but that does not really look like Starbuck. Just a similar-looking blond.

Peter, I'll check it out tonight when I get home but that does not really look like Starbuck. Just a similar-looking blond.

Most likely, given recent events....and that is admittedly a bad capture from a Sci Fi channel broadcast....but I also don't think it was an "accident" that they flashed someone on camera with such a striking resemblance either :D

It could be that since their stint on New Caprica and being in the resistance there, that they are just more aware?
Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean that they aren't out to get you! :p

SciFi bastards might have spoiled the fun at the end of the promo for next week ... but we'll see.

SciFi bastards might have spoiled the fun at the end of the promo for next week ... but we'll see.

I was wondering about that as well, but I have a rule: trust no promo. They lie. :eek:

Doesn't look like Starbuck:
http://lh3.google.com/image/jpappas/Rf7j_cI7yVI/AAAAAAAAABA/-4C8HRXsmho/s800/bsg.319.001.JPG

of coarse thats not starbuck, col. tigh said she's in the ship

Really great episode that left me wanting more. After this Sunday, it's going to be so hard waiting until January for season four.

I'm really starting to dislike Lee. What he did to Roslin was just not right. The questions themselves aren't what I have a problem with, but that he insisted he should be the one to do it. And for what? To get back at his father? She's never done anything to him that I can remember.

And I'm finding I like Adama less and less as this goes on. Any time a trial doesn't go his way he throws a tantrum. At least this time he was shouted down by the rest of the judges.

I really like the lawyer, what a slimeball. Perfectly played by Mark Sheppard.

I guess I saw it a little differently.

Maybe I'm iin the minority here, but I thought it was no better than 'pretty okay', and primarily not much more than a set-up for the final episode. Was it necessary to wait this long to introduce all these newly developed themes rather suddenly (unless every single one of them is related to what happened to Kara, and I’m having difficulty connecting up the re-emergence of Roslyn’s cancer to that), instead of building them up over the last 4 or 5 episodes until they reached a crescendo?

The whole thing just felt a little too rushed for me, and a bit out of character with the way these stories generally unfold.

Other than confirming that Apollo is the biggest ass on the show (and not half as interesting as Baltar), I got the biggest kick from the timing of Roslin putting on her glasses at the trial to give her a more serious effect, just as Romo had predicted in the prior episode.

__________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Really great episode that left me wanting more. After this Sunday, it's going to be so hard waiting until January for season four.

I'm really starting to dislike Lee. What he did to Roslin was just not right. The questions themselves aren't what I have a problem with, but that he insisted he should be the one to do it. And for what? To get back at his father? She's never done anything to him that I can remember.

And I'm finding I like Adama less and less as this goes on. Any time a trial doesn't go his way he throws a tantrum. At least this time he was shouted down by the rest of the judges.

I really like the lawyer, what a slimeball. Perfectly played by Mark Sheppard.

I really like the episode as well. While I won't proclaim it as being perfect (there are always things that can be nit-picked) I was blown away when the words "to be continued" appeared on the screen. I felt like I had only watched about 15 minutes at that time. I found the story to be completely engrossing, and loved the character conflicts (even if I found the Lee/Bill confrontation a bit of a stretch). Yes, it absolutely was a setup for the next episode, but it left me wanting much more, and the hour just flew by. Certainly one of the better episodes of the season.

Certainly one of the better episodes of the season.
I don't disagree, but to me, that's kind of a sad commentary regarding this season generally, based upon what we have previously come to expect.

Exodus and the Eye of Jupiter are stand-outs in my mind. But unless next week is a killer ep, I'd definitely give Season 2 the edge overall.

Should I don my asbestos overalls at this juncture? :)

___________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Maybe everything is as it should be, but somethings just seemed a little "off", or too sudden, or whatever:

1. Lee resigns
2. Tigh is hearing music (in the walls? or is he hearing a tracking device?)
3. Rosyln is dying again and on drugs
4. Dee leaves Lee (well, thank goodness for small favors anyway)
5. The Cylons are back
6. Adama is as drunk as Tigh
7. Roslyn is all cranky at her aide
8. I'm letting go of the "I thought I saw Starbuck in the bar", but even that moment added to the feeling of "Something's" not quite right.

Maybe everything is as it should be, but somethings just seemed a little "off", or too sudden, or whatever:

1. Lee resigns
2. Tigh is hearing music (in the walls? or is he hearing a tracking device?)
3. Rosyln is dying again and on drugs
4. Dee leaves Lee (well, thank goodness for small favors anyway)
5. The Cylons are back
6. Adama is as drunk as Tigh
7. Roslyn is all cranky at her aide
8. I'm letting go of the "I thought I saw Starbuck in the bar", but even that moment added to the feeling of "Something's" not quite right.
I agree, a lot of this stuff seems just a little too convenient, especially Roslyn having cancer again, I'm not convinced that she actually does, her announcement seemed a little too well timed as a way to defuse Lee's questioning of her. We've already seen how ruthless she can be so I don't think it's beyond her to lie about the drug use.

SciFi bastards might have spoiled the fun at the end of the promo for next week ... but we'll see.
Yup, I played it 3 times and there doesn't seem to be any doubt what he said.

After striking Tigh, Six should have been flushed out an airlock. Roslin wouldn't have cared. They even could've shot her on the spot and got away with it. It's not like she's gonna get a trial.

After striking Tigh, Six should have been flushed out an airlock. Roslin wouldn't have cared. They even could've shot her on the spot and got away with it. It's not like she's gonna get a trial.
I think the six striking Tigh made him think of his wife, so he wasn't going to kill her maybe roll her in the sack later after a nice fist fight with her. :D

Now that you mention it tigh does seem to have the personality you see alot in military. Barks orders at work take them at home.

Entertainment weekly revealed who from the crew, and is a regular, is a cylon. They didn't say the name but they revealed the sex. I'll put it in a spoiler.

They said they couldn't believe it was HIM

One thing I gotta comment on... where the hell is all the booze coming from?
I mean at the rate they knock it back, the fleet should be high and dry by now. Reminds me of the old Dallas TV series, every scene had someone (usually JR, or the mother) with a drink in their hand. I know that the flight deck crew had a crude still going at one point, but I'm talking about the good stuff Adama and Tigh always have. They couldn't have that much back stock on a military vessel... could they?
Where is it all coming from, is there some inter-galactic Stop & Shop or 7-Eleven we missed?? :D :D

William, I don't want to read your spoiler, but I think the wording of your post gives away a little more than you intended. It pretty much suggests (if you're using the word "crew" in its technical sense) that we are either not going to learn who the remaining final four are this season, or that the rest will be civilians. The latter doesn't make much sense to me, because other than Roslin, there are hardly any prominent civilians who would make it interesting, and I don't think they're ready to make Roslin a hybrid/cylon, at least not yet.

I've also counted out Kara at this point, as Ron Moore seems intent on promoting the unexpected, and way too many people are considering Kara a likely suspect.

OTOH, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if in the Series final episode (not 'season' final episode) BSG reaches Earth and the LAST of the final five is revealed as Adama, who then proceeds to destroy or subjugate Earth. ;)

_________________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

William, I don't want to read your spoiler, but I think the wording of your post gives away a little more than you intended. It pretty much suggests (if you're using the word "crew" in its technical sense) that we are either not going to learn who the remaining final four are this season, or that the rest will be civilians. The latter doesn't make much sense to me, because other than Roslin, there are hardly any prominent civilians who would make it interesting, and I don't think they're ready to make Roslin a hybrid/cylon, at least not yet.

I've also counted out Kara at this point, as Ron Moore seems intent on promoting the unexpected, and way too many people are considering Kara a likely suspect.

OTOH, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if in the Series final episode (not 'season' final episode) BSG reaches Earth and the LAST of the final five is revealed as Adama, who then proceeds to destroy or subjugate Earth. ;)

_________________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind


No, I just meant that someone is a Cylon that we didn't know was to date. Same thing everyone on here has been saying for a long time and trying to guess who it is.

Maybe everything is as it should be, but somethings just seemed a little "off", or too sudden, or whatever:

1. Lee resigns
2. Tigh is hearing music (in the walls? or is he hearing a tracking device?)
3. Rosyln is dying again and on drugs
4. Dee leaves Lee (well, thank goodness for small favors anyway)
5. The Cylons are back
6. Adama is as drunk as Tigh
7. Roslyn is all cranky at her aide
8. I'm letting go of the "I thought I saw Starbuck in the bar", but even that moment added to the feeling of "Something's" not quite right.

And all of this is suddenly happening out of no where. I think this episode simply emphasizes all the wasted, pointless episodes they gave us in the last 3 to 4 weeks.

yup...something was definitely off about the show...it did seem rushed

And all of this is suddenly happening out of no where. I think this episode simply emphasizes all the wasted, pointless episodes they gave us in the last 3 to 4 weeks.
Yes, this is exactly where I was heading with my post from yesterday. Moore and his writers could have planted the seeds of these developments as sub-plots in the "filler episodes", so that it would have felt like a natural progression when they were further expanded upon in Sunday's ep, and would have kept us guessing in the interim.

This would have added an interesting element to the rather one-note tone of those episodes, and wouldn't have seemed like an unforeseen last minute mind-dump ("holy $h!t, we've got to throw all this junk in quick, to prepare the audience for the final season's episode!!).

Really felt like it was done on the fly. I mean, nobody on the creative team could have seen this coming??? :confused:

__________________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

OTOH, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if in the Series final episode (not 'season' final episode) BSG reaches Earth and the LAST of the final five is revealed as Adama, who then proceeds to destroy or subjugate Earth. ;)
That would mean Lee was a Human/Cylon hybrid?? :eek:

Although I'm disappointed about where they are taking Apollo's character and his relationship with Adama/Roslyn, this was still a riveting episode. Saved again by strong writing and acting.

I thought the opening remarks by both lawyers were outstanding and put good shows like Law and Order to shame.

One thing I gotta comment on... where the hell is all the booze coming from?
I mean at the rate they knock it back, the fleet should be high and dry by now. Reminds me of the old Dallas TV series, every scene had someone (usually JR, or the mother) with a drink in their hand. I know that the flight deck crew had a crude still going at one point, but I'm talking about the good stuff Adama and Tigh always have. They couldn't have that much back stock on a military vessel... could they?
Where is it all coming from, is there some inter-galactic Stop & Shop or 7-Eleven we missed?? :D :D

Maybe this is part of the emerging aristocracy that Baltar is referring to? Adama gets all the good booze!

And the podcast with Ronald Moore is really interesting. He says in the original arc for season 3, the "stand-alone" episodes were supposed to have a direct bearing on the finale with the Baltar trial, especially with the sick Sagitarrians. But as they wrote the finale, they pretty much scrapped that story line because it simply didn't work like they wanted to.

So then they introduced all of this other stuff that they hadn't originally planned on, and the story itself didn't have the leadup that they had intended, so they had to include it all in this episode. So the original story turned out to be about an hour and 20 minutes long, which they had to then trim down to an hour (including commercials)--another reason it probably feels rushed.

Maybe this is part of the emerging aristocracy that Baltar is referring to? Adama gets all the good booze!

And the podcast with Ronald Moore is really interesting. He says in the original arc for season 3, the "stand-alone" episodes were supposed to have a direct bearing on the finale with the Baltar trial, especially with the sick Sagitarrians. But as they wrote the finale, they pretty much scrapped that story line because it simply didn't work like they wanted to.

So then they introduced all of this other stuff that they hadn't originally planned on, and the story itself didn't have the leadup that they had intended, so they had to include it all in this episode. So the original story turned out to be about an hour and 20 minutes long, which they had to then trim down to an hour (including commercials)--another reason it probably feels rushed.

If that's the case, I feel it would be great if they would include the complete un-edited episode in the DVD release.

That would mean Lee was a Human/Cylon hybrid?? :eek:
Hmmm. Perhaps that would help explain Jamie Bamber's somewhat mechanical delivery at times. :D

Seriously, I think Adama ultimately turning out to be a cylon who destroys the only other bastion of humanity, would make a great plot-twist ending, consistent with Moore's propensity to often zag when you were expecting him to zig. And Moore has demonstrated that he does not feel constrained to provide the typical Hollywood "feel-good" conclusions to what is generally an 'edgy' show. :cool:


So then they introduced all of this other stuff that they hadn't originally planned on, and the story itself didn't have the leadup that they had intended, so they had to include it all in this episode. So the original story turned out to be about an hour and 20 minutes long, which they had to then trim down to an hour (including commercials)--another reason it probably feels rushed.
That’s his explantion ??? Poor planning?? Geez. :rolleyes:

What, is the entire creative team working on a BSG Pegasus-Atlantis spin-off project or something? Nobody could figure out how to work this stuff in, rather than regurgitating it like a drunken guest leaving the dining table? :(

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Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

If that's the case, I feel it would be great if they would include the complete un-edited episode in the DVD release.

Yeah, he did mention that he would like some of the deleted scenes to be on the dvd, because apparently there were some really nice ones.

Next season, the show will have a new title.

"Galactica 2008"

:rolleyes: :eek:

Next season, the show will have a new title.

"Galactica 2008"

:rolleyes: :eek:

....just so long as they have Super Scouts and flying motorcycles. And time travel.

....just so long as they have Super Scouts and flying motorcycles. And time travel.

You Forgot Dr. Z

:D

You Forgot Dr. Z

:D

For lo these many years, trust me, I have tried to :eek:

And the podcast with Ronald Moore is really interesting. He says in the original arc for season 3, the "stand-alone" episodes were supposed to have a direct bearing on the finale with the Baltar trial, especially with the sick Sagitarrians. But as they wrote the finale, they pretty much scrapped that story line because it simply didn't work like they wanted to.



HA!!! I pretty much scrapped those stand alones too!!!

HA!!! I pretty much scrapped those stand alones too!!! :D :D

To be fair, a theme was clearly emerging from the filler eps premised upon the class struggles in the colony society, which were also mirrored by the relationship between humans and cylons that had developed prior to the time that the series began.

But that's an awful large bone to process and digest in any context, let alone the confines of a sci-fi television series, and I guess that while good intentioned, Moore and company simply bit off more than they could chew.

"Such stuff as dreams are made on" :)

__________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

You Forgot Dr. Z

:D

Thank you very much, I HAD successfully blocked that from my memory. :p

Apollo has lost it, needs to go out of the airlock with frakking Baltar, with Admiral Adama flipping the switch.

One thing I gotta comment on... where the hell is all the booze coming from?
I mean at the rate they knock it back, the fleet should be high and dry by now. Reminds me of the old Dallas TV series, every scene had someone (usually JR, or the mother) with a drink in their hand. I know that the flight deck crew had a crude still going at one point, but I'm talking about the good stuff Adama and Tigh always have. They couldn't have that much back stock on a military vessel... could they?
Where is it all coming from, is there some inter-galactic Stop & Shop or 7-Eleven we missed??


Apparently, you have never been aboard a canadian or dutch frigate.

Question, How did the path to Earth get written into the scrolls if the Colonies left. Did they send a post card? I just never can get over that detail, unless there is something going on that i mentioned in aprevious post.

As far as Apollo's actions in thelast ep. I feel he is just doing what is right, while most of the crew/fleet just wants to seek revenge. I really felt let down by Adm. Adama's actions this ep. Don't get me wrong the acting was top notch, but I think many are right as far as the cast system developing. The Adm. and the pres. sure don't like when people question thier actions.

Adama and Roslyn are acting like parents. They know what's best for the fleet/humanity. They don't appreciate it when "the kids" question their authority.

Not so much different than any dictatorship that pretends to be a democracy. Due process is fine, as long as it follows the desires of the military/government. When it interferes, then it is shut down or suppressed.

Before judging them too harshly, however, I think their actions are based on the fact that they are acutely aware of how tenuous the existence of humanity is, whereas other seem to be acting as if times are normal.

I found this comment in another forum..Seems interesting as well.

C'mon, people, think outside the box here! We're not looking at four members of the Final Five (Cylons) gathering in a launch bay tube. The Dylan song (as odd a choice as it may be) is resonating for these specific individuals whom are descendents of the Kobollian "gods" whom are beckoning them "home." They're drawn to the Galactica's launch tubes as it's a symbolic place to leave the ship. And as the siren song has done it's work, who shows up on DRADIS but Kara "Starbuck" Thrace - another whom also carries the lineage of the Kobollian "gods." Think about it: The classic BSG "War of the Gods" episodes with the Ship of Lights is being respun here. Starbuck's "death" never happened. Look at the light in her cockpit during her final moments: Intense and radiant. Given the thick cloud cover and Lee Adama's own darkened cockpit (a surprising metaphor that he hasn't "seen or embraced the light"), there's NO WAY Starbuck's cockpit should have been that bright. It was bright before the ship endured aero-friction and collapse. That Cylon ship she was chasing was visible to her alone - it was a manifestation intended to get her positioned for delivery to these other beings. It is their intent to save the last vestiges of humanity. The evolution and salvation of both races depends upon their mutual survival and integration. The Cylons cannot evolve without human example. Humanity cannot survive with their self-destructive natures. These evolved beings (what were considered Kobollian "gods" and "goddesses") went on to Earth. Their stake in humanity is huge. They have endeavored to evolve humankind just as they did with the robotic Cylons over 50 years before. They are the influence that has brought both sides to battle, sought to manipulate their development and created an "Eden" (eg. Earth) to bring both races together. Both sides are motivated to find this place. What they don't realize is: Their fate is pre-destined, pre-designed by these beings. Call it eugenics: The intent is the forced evolution of humankind into "the next level", thanks to the inclusion of Cylon biology/technology. And maybe these Kobollian "gods" are remnants of the prior efforts of higher powers which sought to do the same. The same cycle repeating with different results, but ALWAYS the intent to change humanity's course towards something... different. What does millions of years bring in the evolution of humanity? Change. But what if higher powers wanted to advance the change faster? And this is an ongoing experiment which does just that. Similar circumstances, an irresistable need to repeat certain things to set the stage for renewing the experiment. These four Colonials are NOT Cylons. All have risen to the challenge of their unique destinies, all have come together on Galactica. Something within them, genetically or metaphysically (or psionically), has allowed them to hear the siren song. I believe they are distant offspring or genetic carriers of those ancient Kobollians "gods". Interestingly, none of these four Colonials have held mundane positions in life; they have managed to excel in working with others. And they will unknowingly work for the "higher powers" that may reveal themselves next season as the truth about the Colonial/Cylon karmic circle continues its never-ending cycle. Who are the Final Five Cylons? The "gods" themselves, one of whom may reside amongst the fleet, such as D'anna was able to recognize. The gods will have created an "Eve" or "Venus" in their own image... it's Six.

Another theory...

We, the residents of earth, are cylons. Think about it... the cylons worship one god, like most humans, whereas the "colonials worship gods. I bet when it's all said and done, the cylons will be the ones to reach and populate earth, making us the descendents of cylons. I've had this theory since the mini, and it looks like it's heading there. It's probably meant to be a big twist shocker of an ending to the series.
[/QUOTE]

^^ Interesting theory. Will see what happens in season 4 and how it all pans out.

Question, How did the path to Earth get written into the scrolls if the Colonies left. Did they send a post card? I just never can get over that detail, unless there is something going on that i mentioned in aprevious post.


I have always wondered this myself, and I don't think it's ever been addressed in either the original series or the new one. It does bug me, though. Someone must have come back from Earth to leave all the clues and markers.

I'm really starting to dislike Lee. What he did to Roslin was just not right. The questions themselves aren't what I have a problem with, but that he insisted he should be the one to do it. And for what? To get back at his father? She's never done anything to him that I can remember.



Remember, his father accused him of not having the guts to go after someone himself, but 'handing the shiv to someone else, so they can stab them in the back'. He resigned after his father wouldn't believe him when he claimed he didn't rat out Tigh.

So when it came time to cross examine the Pres. using info he had ferreted out himself, he had to do it personally.

I agree, a lot of this stuff seems just a little too convenient, especially Roslyn having cancer again, I'm not convinced that she actually does, her announcement seemed a little too well timed as a way to defuse Lee's questioning of her. We've already seen how ruthless she can be so I don't think it's beyond her to lie about the drug use.

Not under oath...If she was going to lie, why admit to using the commala in the first place?

As far as Apollo's actions in thelast ep. I feel he is just doing what is right, while most of the crew/fleet just wants to seek revenge. I really felt let down by Adm. Adama's actions this ep. Don't get me wrong the acting was top notch, but I think many are right as far as the cast system developing. The Adm. and the pres. sure don't like when people question thier actions.

I have to agree here. Lee's always stood up for what he feels is 'right'. If you are going to give Baltar a trial, it has to be a 'fair' one. Otherwise, why not just shoot him out the airlock and be done with it? The whole trial business is just as disruptive as Zarek said it would be. Having made the decision to move ahead with the trial, they need to grin and bear it and get through it...not get pissy when things don't line up their way.

Not under oath...If she was going to lie, why admit to using the commala in the first place?
She no doubt figured that Lee already knew the answer, otherwise he wouldn't have asked the question, Rule No. 1 - Never ask a question you don't already know the answer to - Saying she had cancer again was the only answer she could give that might appease the masses, she certainly wasn't going to announce she was hooked on the stuff. Plus, with Adama voicing his objection to the question, it had to be answered at that point, anything else would have caused too much suspicion and unrest among the populace. It's also possible that Adama knew she was addicted and by provoking Lee, got the information out which may have been his plan. Too much happened in this episode without any background to support it to really make any solid determination on "what's what", of course that's one of the characteristics that makes this show good.

Until this point, we the audience, have in most all cases, known what was going on with these characters even if they didn't know amongst themselves, for us to not know that Rosyln had contracted cancer again just seems a stretch. OTOH, maybe this is Moore's way of giving us a different POV, one from the hoi polloi, which is actually supported by the previous episodes focusing on the "little people" in the fleet, the sick, the fuel workers, the political unrest stirred by Baltar's book.

Definitely be interesting to see how it progresses but I for one, don't think she's using the drug because she has cancer. Look at it this way, we've already been down that road once, has cancer-gets cure, why repeat the same storyline? I would hope that the writers would give us a new twist if they are going to repeat past scenarios, and having Rosylyn addicted instead of having cancer, is vastly more interesting than just repeating a previous storyline.

Just my opinion... :)

P.S. As far as the under oath thing, I have no illusions that she wouldn't lie under oath, she stole the election from Baltar, lying under oath, for someone in her position, a president, is not a stretch of any imagination IMO.

She no doubt figured that Lee already knew the answer, otherwise he wouldn't have asked the question, Rule No. 1 - Never ask a question you don't already know the answer to -

It doesn't matter what Lee knows, only what he can prove. If she's a 'liar' by nature, she'd know that and tell the lie. IF she were inclined to lie about it in the first place.

It doesn't matter what Lee knows, only what he can prove. If she's a 'liar' by nature, she'd know that and tell the lie. IF she were inclined to lie about it in the first place.
Well, we certainly have different points of view, it will be fun to see how it turns out. :D

Hopefully the writers won't let us stew over the long break and answer the question definitively by next week, there's only one ep left right?

I have always wondered this myself, and I don't think it's ever been addressed in either the original series or the new one. It does bug me, though. Someone must have come back from Earth to leave all the clues and markers.
In my mind, this is clearly what the whole “This has happened before and it will happen again” mantra has been all about. It seems to suggest an inevitable cyclical pattern that exists surrounding the entire colonists/cylon relationship. Kind of an all-encompassing ‘Groundhog Day’ gestalt, but without Bill Murray’s deadpan humor.

And the clues and markers have purposely been left behind from the initial cycle to ensure the continuity of its repetition. We don’t really know which direction this whole thing started from. It is just as conceivable that it started from the Earth side of the equation, and that it was the humans from our planet who travelled to the colonies, and left hints in their legends/religion for future generations to find the way back home, instead of vice-versa.

___________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

In my mind, this is clearly what the whole “This has happened before and it will happen again” mantra has been all about. It seems to suggest an inevitable cyclical pattern that exists surrounding the entire colonists/cylon relationship. Kind of an all-encompassing ‘Groundhog Day’ gestalt, but without Bill Murray’s deadpan humor.

And the clues and markers have purposely been left behind from the initial cycle to ensure the continuity of its repetition. We don’t really know which direction this whole thing started from. It is just as conceivable that it started from the Earth side of the equation, and that it was the humans from our planet who travelled to the colonies, and left hints in their legends/religion for future generations to find the way back home, instead of vice-versa.

___________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

That's the theory I have had, that Earth is homeworld.

They reached out to the stars, left colonies, and a breadcrumb trail back to Earth when their descendants were ready to return. It doesn't make sense otherwise.

How else could there have been a star map showing the constellations as seen from Earth in the temple?

^^ Just like the Matrix. It has all happened before.

Could the 13th colony not have been on constant (in an intergalactic sense) contact with the colonies themselves until they stopped for some reason? Something that turned the advanced culture into the barbarians that we started from and therefor lost all our high tech knowledge? The colonies could have sent ships to investigate, but when the shifts failed to return (the nebula that had to go through per chance) so the colonies stopped sending any more ships to investigate. then over time they were forgotton?

Just an theory.

That's the theory I have had, that Earth is homeworld.

They reached out to the stars, left colonies, and a breadcrumb trail back to Earth when their descendants were ready to return. It doesn't make sense otherwise.

How else could there have been a star map showing the constellations as seen from Earth in the temple?

Boy are they going to be pissed when they get here...

Global War
Global Warming
MLB Extra Innings is only on DirecTV.

CHAOS!

Boy are they going to be pissed when they get here...

Global War
Global Warming
MLB Extra Innings is only on DirecTV.

CHAOS!

True, but then again they will have Big Macs and Coke, instead of the algae they've been eating. Lee can supersize himself again! :rolleyes:

True, but then again they will have Big Macs and Coke, instead of the algae they've been eating. Lee can supersize himself again! :rolleyes:

No way! He just lost his main squeeze, and Kara's out of the picture. Why do you think he didn't gain that weight until AFTER he was married? ;)

He puts on those 'Nutty Professor' prosthetics again, and he probably won't even have a shot with his former hooker from the vice ship. :D

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Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Remember, his father accused him of not having the guts to go after someone himself, but 'handing the shiv to someone else, so they can stab them in the back'. He resigned after his father wouldn't believe him when he claimed he didn't rat out Tigh.

So when it came time to cross examine the Pres. using info he had ferreted out himself, he had to do it personally.

Yeah, I got that, but it doesn't make him any better a person in my mind. He still had a choice to make -- having the courage of his convictions vs. seriously hurting someone he knows and presumably cares about. In that position, I would've let Lampkin do his job and question her. Especially considering that Lee knows Baltar is guilty, he even said it.

What's worse is he knows firsthand that Roslin is not compromised by the kamala. He has seen her function just fine under its influence. His sole goal was to discredit the witness, there was no "search for the truth" going on here. Besides, there are 199 other people who can corroborate what Roslin testified to -- that 200 people were rounded up to be executed under Baltar's orders.

So, to prove himself to his father and prove that he's not a coward and prove that he believes in the system, he has to personally go after Laura Roslin, who has never done anything to him other than treat him almost like a son? OK, dude made his choice, but I don't have to like it or respect it.

And I'm not entirely sure I think that using his position in the military to get close to the President and sniff her tea while she wasn't looking was the most ethical thing this Paragon of Ethics and Fairness could do.

As for Roslin's cancer, I have never doubted she was telling the truth. It's not something you lie about. A cancer survivor would never lie about the disease coming back. That is some seriously bad karma. Plus, it's too easy to prove she lied -- all they'd have to do is ask Doc Cottle.

AND...
In Ron Moore's podcast, he pretty much definitively states that the cancer is back. He says he had a talk with Mary McDonnell and she was cool with it, mostly because it finally gives her a storyline again.

Yeah, I got that, but it doesn't make him any better a person in my mind. He still had a choice to make -- having the courage of his convictions vs. seriously hurting someone he knows and presumably cares about. In that position, I would've let Lampkin do his job and question her. Especially considering that Lee knows Baltar is guilty, he even said it.

What's worse is he knows firsthand that Roslin is not compromised by the kamala. He has seen her function just fine under its influence. His sole goal was to discredit the witness, there was no "search for the truth" going on here. Besides, there are 199 other people who can corroborate what Roslin testified to -- that 200 people were rounded up to be executed under Baltar's orders.

So, to prove himself to his father and prove that he's not a coward and prove that he believes in the system, he has to personally go after Laura Roslin, who has never done anything to him other than treat him almost like a son? OK, dude made his choice, but I don't have to like it or respect it.

And I'm not entirely sure I think that using his position in the military to get close to the President and sniff her tea while she wasn't looking was the most ethical thing this Paragon of Ethics and Fairness could do.

As for Roslin's cancer, I have never doubted she was telling the truth. It's not something you lie about. A cancer survivor would never lie about the disease coming back. That is some seriously bad karma. Plus, it's too easy to prove she lied -- all they'd have to do is ask Doc Cottle.
Very well put. Didn’t we already have a discussion about you staying out of my head, or was that in some other thread.?? :mad: ;)

This is a perfect example of a situation in which the end did not justify the means.

AFAIC, Lee sccrificed,….no make that violated, a confidence and a trust that has existed between himself and Roslin since the inception of this series, for nothing more than a cheap shot to undermine her credibility on what was essentially an unrelated point. Anyway you slice it, it was morally wrong and unnecessary under the circumstances.

Makes you wonder if the wrong lead character died in that raptor. :rolleyes:

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Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

I was talking to a co-worker today, who told me Baltar is innocent in his opinion. That he was essentially "used by (a female cylon) one of many women" he um....womanized. Strange; though nervy and neurotic, he certainly had a way with the ladies. That theory got me to thinking; so I need to rewatch the mini-series.

From my recollection (and it's a bit fuzzy), he gave up intelligence to Six in exchange for favors, but didn't really realize what he'd done until nukes hits Caprica. In short, he thought she was a nut job, not some dangerous alien-killer. But I guess that still makes him a traitor of sorts......

I really need to rewatch the mini again.

Thanks Palladin. :)

As for Baltar's guilt or innocence, he's guilty of compromising security, whether or not he knew she was a Cylon. I don't know if that necessarily deserves the death penalty as he surely didn't intend on the genocide of the human race.

But the charge in this trial concerns his actions on New Caprica, specifically signing off on the "Death List". Yes, he had a gun to his head, what was he supposed to do? It would've happened whether he signed the order or not. As much as I would've liked to have seen him take a stand for humanity, I'm not sure I can blame him for this.

I wish the charge had something to do with the nuke he gave to Gina Six, who then proceeded to blow up Cloud Nine and give away the humans' location. But maybe they don't know he did that and have no evidence of it. Someone way back upthread pointed this crime out to me when I was pseudo-defending Baltar, and I really think that's the only thing he's done that I consider evil. He did that out of spite and knew the possible consequences of his actions.

All this is what makes Baltar such a great character, IMO. He really isn't on anyone's side but his own. He's not evil as much as he's just a narcissist.

^^ More like he let her help him in designing the system, thus giving her access to it. Sure he was duped, but once he realized that she was a Cylon, he could have come forward and just gotten the slap on the wrist. But since he actively covered it up and that there were other Cylon's on board, which lead to Bill Adam being shot, makes him guilty after the fact for the assault on the colonies and directly guilty for his collusion. Not like Gaeta who at least was deep throat for the resistance until when it was all over and was about to be sent out the lock before it was made known what he had done.

The way the defence was saying that Laura would have got them all killed had she remained president while they were on New Caprica ignores one thing, Laura didn't want to stay there, she knew it was too soon and would have been light years away from that planet if she had not been caught stuffing ballot boxes to steal the election. This is all Baltar. Just a good thing they don't know that Balta provided the nuke to 'Gina" Six who blew up the she she was on, which took a couple other ships with it. So he is guilty of more crimes then what just happened on New Caprica. Just as many died from that 1 nuke as on the planet.

So, just how many times can you shove someone out an air lock, without a space suite/O2??? :D

Thanks Palladin. :)

As for Baltar's guilt or innocence, he's guilty of compromising security, whether or not he knew she was a Cylon. I don't know if that necessarily deserves the death penalty as he surely didn't intend on the genocide of the human race.

But the charge in this trial concerns his actions on New Caprica, specifically signing off on the "Death List". Yes, he had a gun to his head, what was he supposed to do? It would've happened whether he signed the order or not. As much as I would've liked to have seen him take a stand for humanity, I'm not sure I can blame him for this.

I wish the charge had something to do with the nuke he gave to Gina Six, who then proceeded to blow up Cloud Nine and give away the humans' location. But maybe they don't know he did that and have no evidence of it. Someone way back upthread pointed this crime out to me when I was pseudo-defending Baltar, and I really think that's the only thing he's done that I consider evil. He did that out of spite and knew the possible consequences of his actions.

All this is what makes Baltar such a great character, IMO. He really isn't on anyone's side but his own. He's not evil as much as he's just a narcissist.

Wow, pretty close to what I said. :D

I think I'm going to start calling myself HeadLoco, much like HeadSix and HeadBaltar. I'm inside your heads!! :D

Great point about Laura not wanting to settle on New Caprica in the first place. I was practically screaming that at my TV during Lampkin's opening statement.

From my recollection (and it's a bit fuzzy), he gave up intelligence to Six in exchange for favors, but didn't really realize what he'd done until nukes hits Caprica. In short, he thought she was a nut job, not some dangerous alien-killer. But I guess that still makes him a traitor of sorts......

I really need to rewatch the mini again.

He gave her unlimited access to the military's mainframe computer. That access led to the destruction of the Colonies' military, the near destruction of the human race, the loss of the 12 Homeworlds, and has them being chased across the Universe by the Cylons. Treason is treason, even if he thought she was just a contractor looking for an edge. He knew what he did was wrong and did it anyway.

The way the defence was saying that Laura would have got them all killed had she remained president while they were on New Caprica ignores one thing, Laura didn't want to stay there, she knew it was too soon and would have been light years away from that planet if she had not been caught stuffing ballot boxes to steal the election. This is all Baltar.

Actually they sort of gloss over the fact that it wasn't BALTAR'S idea to colonize New Caprica...it was Zarek's. He used it purely as a political tool to galvanize support behind Baltar. He didn't care one way or another about whether it was the right thing to do or not.

Yeah, I got that, but it doesn't make him any better a person in my mind.

I never said it did...just that once he decided to go down that road he had to have the guts to do it himself.

Fantastic news...looks like they picked up the rest of Season 4! 22 eps next year! From the Hot Off The Press! thread:

Season 4 extended! (http://www.tvweek.com/news.cms?newsId=11755)

Fantastic news...looks like they picked up the rest of Season 4! 22 eps next year! From the Hot Off The Press! thread:

Season 4 extended! (http://www.tvweek.com/news.cms?newsId=11755)


Plus a 2-hour movie...

Actually they sort of gloss over the fact that it wasn't BALTAR'S idea to colonize New Caprica...it was Zarek's. He used it purely as a political tool to galvanize support behind Baltar. He didn't care one way or another about whether it was the right thing to do or not.
True, once again, Baltar was duped by someone else. But still, as president, he gave the executive order that they make landfall on "New Caprica". He did make all the decisions that led to what happened. He even gave Adm Adama a presidential order to NOT looking into the cause of the nukelear explosion that destroyed Cloud Nine, and a couple other ships in orbit soon after they made orbit. Strictly because he knew who did it and that he had provided the nuke to who he knew to be a terrorist. Zarek was just being a smart politician and using a major event to galvanize support to their side.

Plus a 2-hour movie...A "two-hour 'Battlestar' event". Might not be a movie as such.

Fantastic news...looks like they picked up the rest of Season 4! 22 eps next year! From the Hot Off The Press! thread:

Season 4 extended! (http://www.tvweek.com/news.cms?newsId=11755)

Great news indeed!

In a way, I hope season four is the last season and that they know that now. As much as I love the show, I do think there was some filler this year. You should always try to leave them wanting more! I don't think this is the sort of show that can just go on and on. It would be cool for the creative folks to know way in advance that the show is ending so they can really focus and give us a great, tight season with no "filler." And a spectacular and satisfying ending.

True, once again, Baltar was duped by someone else. But still, as president, he gave the executive order that they make landfall on "New Caprica". He did make all the decisions that led to what happened. He even gave Adm Adama a presidential order to NOT looking into the cause of the nukelear explosion that destroyed Cloud Nine, and a couple other ships in orbit soon after they made orbit. Strictly because he knew who did it and that he had provided the nuke to who he knew to be a terrorist. Zarek was just being a smart politician and using a major event to galvanize support to their side.

I have wondered about the nuke on Cloud Nine, and why nobody ever really pursued that. I simply don't remember Baltar ordering Adama to ignore it.

Plus a 2-hour movie...

Actually from the way I understood the announcement, the 22 episods includes the 2 hour movie.

Great news indeed!

In a way, I hope season four is the last season and that they know that now. As much as I love the show, I do think there was some filler this year. You should always try to leave them wanting more! I don't think this is the sort of show that can just go on and on. It would be cool for the creative folks to know way in advance that the show is ending so they can really focus and give us a great, tight season with no "filler." And a spectacular and satisfying ending.

I totally disagree with this statement. Although this season has had much too much 'filler' episodes (and I've been one of the biggest detractors about that), I don't think that's because the show has begun to run it's coarse. Don't confuse bad writing ideas and choices with running out of material to write about. The writers have had great material and subjects to create continual, riviting dramatic stories. They've just simply chose to ignore that material, and write a bunch of irrelevant, stand-alone episodes that ended short-changing all the BSG fans. Finally, last weeks episode got back to the meat. But with only one episode left for this season, it's too little, too late. And I feel the writers have 'porked' every one of us.

Well, sure, if the show was as compelling as a whole this season as in previous ones, I wouldn't be making that statement. I hope the filler this season was an aberration.

But really, how long can you string out a story about a group of people searching for Earth? Five seasons would be ideal if they can keep the quality up, I think. But no more than that. What concerns me most is if the creators don't make the decision themselves prior to the start of a season, then SciFi will make the decision for them - most likely in the middle of a season after they've decided the show isn't making them enough money. And the creative team will be left rushing to give the show a decent ending.

I'd much rather have it all properly planned out than have an ending rushed into 4 episodes or a 2 hr movie.

All I can say is... Sunday night @ 10 PM is a deal killer for me.

BTW... did Starbuck die?

so next season will be the last? .....DAMMIT ALL!!!!

I dont think I can live without this show

No, no one knows if next season will be the last. There is speculation that it may be, but it's all just rumors at this point.

Step away from the ledge!

All I can say is... Sunday night @ 10 PM is a deal killer for me.

BTW... did Starbuck die?

Yes. But there is much speculation that her story isn't quite over yet.

Well, sure, if the show was as compelling as a whole this season as in previous ones, I wouldn't be making that statement. I hope the filler this season was an aberration.
Possibly, but simply because it was only the THIRD season. The reality is that most dramas have a limited ‘quality’ run, usually no more than 3-4 years at best. Comedies seem to enjoy a better shelf life for some reason, perhaps because of the shorter half-hour format, and perhaps the expectations aren’t held to as exacting a standard..

I know, I know, now there’ll be a wave of posts to decry that statement (“What are you nuts?? Space 1999 had 12 wonderful seasons and each one was better than the last!.”) Listen I think ST TNG was one of the best long-running sci-fi series ever, and I own all seven seasons on DVD, but the unfortunate reality is that many of the later eps were spotty at best. I don’t consider that a failing of the writers necessarily, but rather the nature of the beast. I mean, while its possible for a series to last a long time, longevity in and of itself has relatively limited value. Bonanza was on the airwaves for 14 years, but probably during that entire period there wasn’t much more than maybe 10-15 plotines, which were subject to slight variations each week. Alternatively, The Prisoner didn’t last more than a summer season and is one of the most memorable series from my youth.

What concerns me most is if the creators don't make the decision themselves prior to the start of a season, then SciFi will make the decision for them - most likely in the middle of a season after they've decided the show isn't making them enough money. And the creative team will be left rushing to give the show a decent ending
I feel the same way. I would much rather see BSG go out on a high note in a blaze of glory, than limp across the finish line crippled, just to squeeze an extra year out of it. In the case of the former, I will miss the show but still have fond memories of it, whereas the latter will leave a sour aftertaste behind.

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Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

I feel the same way. I would much rather see BSG go out on a high note in a blaze of glory, than limp across the finish line crippled, just to squeeze an extra year out of it. In the case of the former, I will miss the show but still have fond memories of it, whereas the latter will leave a sour aftertaste behind.



I agree. X-files taught me that.

No, no one knows if next season will be the last. There is speculation that it may be, but it's all just rumors at this point.

Step away from the ledge!Which is most likely fostered by the show's Producer(s) in an effort to extort more money for the broadcast rights.

I agree. It shouldn't limp to a finish. It should end in some soul-shaking "What the frak? I wasn't expecting that!!" ending.

And... it need not be a happy ending!

Is it wrong that I dig the TV 6 more than the real life person that plays her?
I get annoyed when the real TH speaks...

I agree. It shouldn't limp to a finish. It should end in some soul-shaking "What the frak? I wasn't expecting that!!" ending.

And... it need not be a happy ending!Did you mean to say... frell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farscape_terminology) instead? :p

And all of this is suddenly happening out of no where. I think this episode simply emphasizes all the wasted, pointless episodes they gave us in the last 3 to 4 weeks.


YES @ the 4 "1offs" prior to the last 4 episodes of this season were horrible IMO.
Like they want to show their range as writers or somethings.

However, if you are fighting for your show's renewal, why would you hamstrung yourselves like that?

Is it wrong that I dig the TV 6 more than the real life person that plays her?
I get annoyed when the real TH speaks...
I saw TH on one of the late night shows... It was either Leno or Letterman- I wasn't impressed either!
She was just kind of bla, bla, bla...... no sense of humor. Not at all what I had expected. Kind of disappointing :(

Great news indeed!

In a way, I hope season four is the last season and that they know that now. As much as I love the show, I do think there was some filler this year. You should always try to leave them wanting more! I don't think this is the sort of show that can just go on and on. It would be cool for the creative folks to know way in advance that the show is ending so they can really focus and give us a great, tight season with no "filler." And a spectacular and satisfying ending.

Yeah but they need 100 for syndication. 5 Years baby!!!

I saw TH on one of the late night shows... It was either Leno or Letterman- I wasn't impressed either!
She was just kind of bla, bla, bla...... no sense of humor. Not at all what I had expected. Kind of disappointing :(I guess that's what makes her a good actress. Ever see, say.....Janet Jackson in an interview? She's quiet and shy, but when the camera rolls, she's like a completely different person. :eek:

I guess that's what makes her a good actress. Ever see, say.....Janet Jackson in an interview? She's quiet and shy, but when the camera rolls, she's like a completely different person. :eek:


Yes, my thoughts eexactly re: TH. Great actress.

COUNTDOWN!

Figured I might as well bump this sucker back up, as it should get a fair amount of comments (positive or negative), tonight and tomorrow. And then...within a few days thereafter, it will go into hibernation for the next 8 months, unless they bless up with the direct-to-video feature or something of a similar bent.

____________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

COUNTDOWN!

Figured I might as well bump this sucker back up, as it should get a fair amount of comments (positive or negative), tonight and tomorrow.Those who haven't already might try using thread subscription and the User Control Panel. I can find any of the threads across all forums that I'm monitoring and/or participating in by clicking "View All Subscribed Threads" and any thread that I'm subscribed to which gets new posts shows up at the top of my User CP. Some of them are in forums that I never visit (like this one--I subscribed to it when it was in HDTV Programming and it's since moved to a forum that I've never otherwise opened).

Those that purchased the DVD for the show, is it really worth it $40 per 1/2 season seams steep and they're not HD just how good is the DVD I want to rent it, I haven't decided what format HD payer to get yet, I'm just waiting for the smoke to clear, so for now $80 per season and not HD which maybe around the corner, but I don't think I can wait 8 months HD on directv sucks I have no hd dvr and if you did how many shows in hd can you load in the hard drive without being full?

For those w/DVR's....
Tonight's episode "Crossroads" is listed as 1hr 3min long on TitanTV.

I think everyone who hears the Cylon song is a Cylon, first impressions.

I think everyone who hears the Cylon song is a Cylon, first impressions.

Absolutely what I was about to post.

Or they could be one of the 5.

But that Laura, Caprica, Athena all shared a dream is very interesting in itself.

Whoa, fleet wide power failure. So sabotage it is. Must have been tied into the spool down after a jump as that was quick!

WOW! Starbuck! When I saw it was a Viper, I just felt that it was her.