Battlestar Galactica on SciFi HD - Season 4 [Text View] - Page 15

JeffAHayes

04-08-07, 07:51 AM

Whew! Finally!

After I FOUND this thread again tonight (took me a while to even find my link to the Forum, lol), I discovered there were 10 new pages since my last post. I've spent the last six hours or so reading through them (do I need a life, or WHAT???), just to make sure I don't post a bunch of junk that's already been posted.

When I logged onto the forum, it said my last visit was Feb. 20. I didn't think it had been QUITE that long, as I used to keep up with THIS thread just about every episode, but I think BSG took a break for a week or two, and the first week of March my Vista upgrade disks arrived... Argggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhh!!!

No, it's NOT hard to upgrade to Vista... it's a piece of cake. The upgrade and installation actually takes considerably less time than installing XP does... Getting everything to WORK RIGHT, however, is ANOTHER STORY... And of course EVERY SINGLE TIME I did it over, I felt I had no choice if I wanted it done right but to start over by reformatting my C: partition, reinstalling XP and going from there (I was sort of compelled to do the "upgrade path" if I wanted to keep some of the software I bought with my Dell system in November).

As I was doing this, March 11 my Dad got sick enough again to have to go into the hospital via ambulance and spent two weeks in the local Heart Center before a surprise arrest took him from us on the morning of the 24th... So between losing my dad, and 7-11 different reinstallations, I'm JUST NOW getting back here, even though the VERY FIRST THING I thought when Starbuck popped up at the end of the season finale was "I can't WAIT to go to the AVS forum and post about that!" (Yes, I was watching that even though my dad had died the day before... it was a long time coming, and I'm a TV-aholic).

Anyway, my BIGGEST PROBLEM with Vista was issues with Media Center, which I couldn't get ironed out (I had other issues, but got them worked out). THIS TIME, so far, Media Center is working fine, and I'm checking it BEFORE and AFTER every single driver or software upgrade and/or installation, so if a problem emerges, I'll know exactly where it started.

But to BSG...

First, I'm kindasorta glad I didn't keep up with this thread too closely during March, because I'm afraid I would have clicked on that final-2-episodes spoiler link, and MAN, in just a FEW LINES, whoever posted that spoiler synopsized every single important event of two entire episodes. It amazed me you could boil it all down into such a short space!

Second, "Free-Bo-Gel" (hope I got your screen name right -- you're not on this page, and I've been here too long to go searching right now), your initial post about how the four new Cylons could be "replacements" was JUST what I was thinking... All four: Anders, Tyrol, Tigh and Tori were on New Caprica. It's entirely possible if the Cylons had a way to "create" a model, they could have replaced four humans with Cylon copies, after extracting all their memories. I think all the humanoid Cylons probably had to be cloned from some human's DNA, originally, anyway (of course this is within the bounds of OUR scientific thinking, not considering whatever science fiction ideas Moore may have about it). If that were the case, however, and they were STILL 4 of the final 5, as Moore has now definitely said they are, and the other Cylons don't know about them, then that wouldn't make any sense.

However, I have a "theory" about the Dean Stockwell "preacher" Cylon model, that he may know things the others don't. First, of the original humanoid Cylons, he's CONSIDERABLY "older" than any of the others. That may be in ACTUAL time, not just in appearance (I'm guessing his designation is 1). He's also, BY FAR, the most aggressive of the bunch, the one who's always more interested in wiping out humanity than anything else (I just caught "Eye of Jupiter" on UHD last night, and he was RABID about D'Anna wanting to go to the temple so she could find Earth faster, rather than using that as an opportunity to finish off the Humans). And it was HIM who boxed the FINAL D'Anna (the one who made the trip and saw the face of one of "The Five") when she returned, after all the others had been "boxed." He said it was a "group decision," and maybe it was, but I'm guessing his influence was paramount in that decision.

Mr. Moore has said the four new Cylons are "fundamentally different," as are Caprica and Sharon, although he said that about them in a different paragraph, so they may be "fundamentally different" in "fundamentally different ways." (I really DO think he's making this up as he goes along, but then isn't that what storytellers do? :)

Is it possible that part of the "fundamental difference" of the four new ones is that they were created on New Caprica by "Brother Cavel?" As Cylons ARE genetically VERY similar to humans, is it possible they (or HE?) have/has discovered a way to create new Cylons by simply injecting or implanting something in a Human?

But if THAT were the case, they could have theoretically converted everyone on New Caprica, and they didn't. Perhaps they could have, but there was no need? Whatever the case (and I KNOW the real reason D'Anna was "boxed" was so Lucy Lawless could be freed for other projects), but for story purposes, I think the real reason wasn't because she was acting as an individual, rather than as a "team player," but because she had discovered something Brother Cavel didn't want her to know.

I also think Six and Sharon are "fundamentally good," in the long run, not just the few individuals, but that the entire "models" will come to see Humans and Cylons as allies... just as I think Brother Cavel and the male Cylon who's a "pretty boy," don't know his character's name are "fundamentally evil." The rest I'm not sure about, but this is what makes this show so intriguing -- the very fact that a Cylon like Athena can make a conscious decision to defect and join the fleet -- and to be trusted to do so -- even after her identical-model Boomer (who had no idea she was a Cylon) almost killed the Admiral. And the Six who's in holding... there's really no need, I don't think. She's no longer a threat. She just wants to find a quiet corner to cuddle with Baltar, lol.

As for Starbuck, I just KNEW this season would end up that way... no matter WHAT Moore had said... I just KNEW she'd pop up in her Raptor somehow... but I figured that confirmed her as a resurrected Cylon, although after reading all the discussion here, plus the things Ron Moore said, I guess not... I'm also guessing the 4 new Cylons may have no way to resurrect.

As many others have said, it's gonna be a LONG wait and interesting to find out where they go with this.

One final comment... Near the end (to this point) of this thread I saw some postings about who are the hottest chicks on the show (I've made a few comments, myself, in the past)... But after that, I noticed all the responses, and then I scrolled through the page and looked... Man, the stereotype is TOO TRUE... we're all a bunch of Sci-Fi nerds -- NOTHING BUT GUYS posting here, huh?

Geesh!!!

And why am I up ALL NIGHT LONG on Easter Sunday with this? Well, I got my days and nights mixed up, so I'm "resetting my clock," lol.

Oh, and I still vote for the Caprica-Sharon sandwich, by the way, but I'm sorry guys, I've also always thought Callie was cute as a button... not "pretty," but so darned cute.

So QUIT PICKIN' ON THE GAL before I tell Neelix where you live and that you like his singing!
:-P

rezzy

04-08-07, 09:34 AM

As I was doing this, March 11 my Dad got sick enough again to have to go into the hospital via ambulance and spent two weeks in the local Heart Center before a surprise arrest took him from us on the morning of the 24th... So between losing my dad, and 7-11 different reinstallations, I'm JUST NOW getting back here, even though the VERY FIRST THING I thought when Starbuck popped up at the end of the season finale was "I can't WAIT to go to the AVS forum and post about that!" (Yes, I was watching that even though my dad had died the day before... it was a long time coming, and I'm a TV-aholic)Sorry to hear about your dad. But sometimes we need a good distraction in times like these. My own dad passed at the beginning of the season, so it's completely understandable.

And Starbuck being a cylon seems too obvious (to me) right now. Hopefully they threw us a curve-ball.

JeffAHayes

04-08-07, 10:15 AM

Oh I don't really care if they threw us a curve-ball or not. I mean, WHY THE HECK should any of us care if one character or another turns out to be a secret Cylon? It's JUST A FREAKIN' TV SHOW! I enjoy all the theorizing and debating (or else I wouldn't have spent half the night catching up on this thread), but in the end, what does it matter?

I'm guessing if Starbuck DOES turn out to be a Cylon, she'll either be a GOOD Cylon, or she'll be so dastardly good at being deceptively treacherous that we'll just EAT THAT UP, anyway (kind of like Ben on "Lost." Ya never know WHAT he's gonna do NEXT, but ya can't wait to find out). Or maybe she'll even be one of these really complex characters that has both redeeming and evil qualities about her if she's a Cylon (Like, say, Vic Mackey on "The Shield," or even Tony Soprano, who has this soft, loving side to him even though he's an evil villain.)

It doesn't really matter to me, as long as it's good story-telling, well done and believable.

As for complaining about waiting until 2008, I look at it like this... Sci-Fi is supposed to go Hi-Def late in 2007, so if it doesn't come back until next January, at least there's an excellent chance the Sci-Fi channel will be in Hi-Def by then, huh? But Ron Moore not shooting in Hi-Def is ANOTHER issue, entirely. Those of you who have ooohed and ahhhed in the past over how spectacular the re-runs looked on UHD, I kind of had to wonder... "Stargate: Atlantis," now THAT looks VASTLY better, but I really see only "marginal" improvement in the quality of BSG on UHD over the Sci-Fi channel (comparable to how "The Wire" looks on the HD HBO channel [it's not filmed in HD on purpose, to give it a grainy look and feel]), and now I know why...

With Sci-Fi going to HD later this year, and that genre, with all its special effects, particularly benefiting from HD, Mr. Moore had BETTER re-think his attitude on HD, even if it crimps his budget elsewhere and shoot Season 4 in HD, because that, alone, could impact his shot at a Season 5, if he wants one, as I'm thinking a lot of Sci-Fi viewers that are just getting into HD with the addition of all the new channels this year might be REALLY turned off to discover that other original series' on the network ARE in HD and BSG isn't... When ratings are already a fleeting commodity, something like that could play enough of a part to make the difference.

HOWEVER, the gist I got from the one interview I read and the other snippets that were posted is that he's really probably NOT going to push for a fifth season, and if we get it, it will be a surprise due to higher ratings, and not a part of his longterm plan. I think right now he's trying to figure out a way to work those last two "chapters" into two 10-episode story-arcs next year.

Time will tell,
Jeff

archiguy

04-08-07, 10:48 AM

As for complaining about waiting until 2008, I look at it like this... Sci-Fi is supposed to go Hi-Def late in 2007, so if it doesn't come back until next January, at least there's an excellent chance the Sci-Fi channel will be in Hi-Def by then, huh? But Ron Moore not shooting in Hi-Def is ANOTHER issue, entirely. Those of you who have ooohed and ahhhed in the past over how spectacular the re-runs looked on UHD, I kind of had to wonder... "Stargate: Atlantis," now THAT looks VASTLY better, but I really see only "marginal" improvement in the quality of BSG on UHD over the Sci-Fi channel (comparable to how "The Wire" looks on the HD HBO channel [it's not filmed in HD on purpose, to give it a grainy look and feel]), and now I know why...
Jeff

You're operating under a misconception here, Jeff. The show is shot and post-produced in HD, including all the vfx. What Moore was referring to in that now-oft-quoted remark about HD is that they edit the show in full-screen, not widescreen, because that's how the majority of people (and the only people who really count - the SciFi "live" viewers) see it. What we see in the UHD HD showings on the sides of the 16x9 frame is just "bonus". Everything is edited for full-screen.

And actually, I've noticed a definite improvement in picture quality on the SciFi showings in the latter part of the season. I don't know what they did, but the improvement is noticable. I still prefer HD, of course, and watch them all again on UHD, but the SciFi showings were not nearly as painful as they once were.

michaeltscott

04-08-07, 11:57 AM

You're operating under a misconception here, Jeff. The show is shot and post-produced in HD, including all the vfx. What Moore was referring to in that now-oft-quoted remark about HD is that they edit the show in full-screen, not widescreen, because that's how the majority of people (and the only people who really count - the SciFi "live" viewers) see it. What we see in the UHD HD showings on the sides of the 16x9 frame is just "bonus". Everything is edited for full-screen.I'm sorry, but I don't believe that. For one thing, like many SciFi series, it's shown letterboxed--the only way someone with a 4:3 television could watch it with the sides clipped is if their television had some sort of zoom function and I don't think that the average 4:3 television can do that. Second, I just watched a little of a recording from yesterday's UHD airing and there's no way that it's framed for 4:3. Take for example a scene in a Raptor that Kara had just landed where she and Lee start by making out and end with an argument about divorce--during part of the discussion, Kara's on the far right side (of the 16:9 frame) with her right arm clipped out of frame and Lee is on the far left side with the left side of his body and the back of his head completely out of frame. If viewed as only the center 4:3 portion, it would be a ridiculous shot with only a sliver of either character showing, dominated by a portion of the interior of the ship. I know that some network programs are shot like that, with a soft matte--I've seen times when a normally HD program started out in 4:3 but then someone "flicks the switch" and the picture sharpens up and the pillar boxing disappears, revealing things that'd been out of frame on either side (I saw this once during Alias). Other shows are shot widescreen and always shown letterboxed on 4:3 broadcasts (ER, for instance). BSG appears to be one of the latter. Or, if they actually are trying to edit it for 4:3, they're doing a pretty crappy job of it. Maybe it was done that way in previous seasons, but not this one.

A lot of the show seems to have been transferred from grainy film (or otherwise filtered to look that way), which might give the impression that it doesn't appreciably improve in HD. That's often a very deliberate choice, to give a film or program a harsh, gritty look, to match the mood of the story.

archiguy

04-08-07, 12:41 PM

I'm sorry, but I don't believe that. ...........Or, if they actually are trying to edit it for 4:3, they're doing a pretty crappy job of it. Maybe it was done that way in previous seasons, but not this one.

Well, you can believe what you want, but the editing comment came straight from RM's mouth. I have no reason to doubt him.

A lot of the show seems to have been transferred from grainy film (or otherwise filtered to look that way), which might give the impression that it doesn't appreciably improve in HD. That's often a very deliberate choice, to give a film or program a harsh, gritty look, to match the mood of the story.

Yep, you're right on that one. I believe it's all shot on HD videocam now, but was shot on 16mm film in earlier seasons...?

HDNair

04-08-07, 01:36 PM

Well, you can believe what you want, but the editing comment came straight from RM's mouth. I have no reason to doubt him.

Yep, you're right on that one. I believe it's all shot on HD videocam now, but was shot on 16mm film in earlier seasons...?

RM's quote was specifically about HD, not aspect ratios. Sci-Fi DOES air BSG 16:9 letterboxed, there can hardly be any debate about that. But it's SD, obviously, they do their initial post production on the show in SD. That's what RM meant by his comment.

The initial miniseries was shot in 35mm but the show has been shot in HD from the beginning, but they have shot on film for slow motion shots because the HD cameras they are using do not have the capability to shoot in slow motion. The reason they chose HD cameras was for financial reasons, but if it was purely artistic concerns they'd likely have chosen film, as they're clearly making an effort to give it the show a grainy film like look. HD footage by itself would look very crisp which is not the case with BSG. For many shots they are going for a over exposed, Robert Richardson type of look(Richardson is a cinematographer whose trademark is having light on the actors appear almost glowing, or very white). I'm surprised they can even reproduce that look with HD.

Palladin

04-08-07, 02:03 PM

HDNair

04-08-07, 02:51 PM

As far as Robert Richardson goes, I have found his work to be decidedly more subtle than BSG's use of lighting, particularly "JFK". Then again, since he would have a larger budget and more flexibility in his timetable, this may be an unfair comparison.

Indeed, I wasn't attempting to favorably compare the visual quality of the work done on BSG with Richardson's, I just commented that they were going for a Richardson "type" of look. That effect of having the backlighting over exposed and therefore "glowing" is basically a trademark of Richardson's, to the point that anyone else attempting it would be considered an imitation.

JeffAHayes

04-08-07, 09:08 PM

Just so's ya's knows, when I made the comment about Tony Soprano this morning, I had absolutely NO conscious awareness the final season of "The Sopranos" was premiering tonight, lol... right this very minute, in fact, lol.

I mean, I KNEW it was coming back, and SOON, but didn't realize it was TONIGHT... so for the next hour, I guess I'm livin' in Jersey, lol (while simultaneously recording "Desperate Housewives," of course)... Also glad to see "The Dresden Files" is continuing. I'd gotten the idea from some poster somewhere (I THINK it was in this thread) that this series was based on a half dozen short novels (I've seen the novels for sale at Barnes & Noble), but it's well past the half-dozen point, now.

Oh well, to the show.
Jeff

Sorry for the off-subject posting.

rezzy

04-08-07, 09:20 PM

michaeltscott

04-08-07, 10:26 PM

BTW, I did track down the Ron Moore quote about their editing the series in standard def. It's here (http://www.tvweek.com/article.cms?articleId=31699) in an interview with TVWeek.com. As HDNair said, it has nothing to do with aspect ratio:
TVWeek: There's a real difference watching "BSG" on Sci Fi and when it airs on UHD months later in HD and 5.1 Surround Sound. Has this lag time been frustrating that viewers aren't watching the original airings the way it was shot?

Mr. Moore: I don't see it that way. We don't cut it in HD. When I sit in the Avid room, it's not in HD. As a practical day-to-day matter, there's no reason for me to be watching it in HD. ... When it comes out on UHD months later, I'm usually sort of surprised. "It's gorgeous! Look at that, you can see the reflection on the glass and everything." My head isn't geared toward HD at all.Curious about the gritty, grainy look and how they get it, I also dug up this (http://www.twistytales.com/08_HarveyFrand.pdf) interesting document online, which contains (among other things) an article entitled "Breaking the Comfort Zone: How HD workflows paid off for Battlestar Galactica and Enterprise". From PDF page 3:
Meanwhile, elsewhere in Hollywood, director Michael Rymer pauses briefly from a round of meetings regarding development of an independent film he hopes to direct, possibly shot in HD, to discuss another high-profile, science-fiction franchise show now airing on the Sci Fi Channel: Battlestar Galactica. Rymer directed the two-part Battlestar miniseries in 2003, which was shot on 35mm film, then the series pilot in 2004 and this year's season-ending two-part episode — all of which were shot using Panavised versions of Sony's HDW-F900/3 system. Rymer freely concedes that he initially opposed, with fervor, shooting the series in HD. He recalls being opposed to the concept “in an emotional, obstinate way.” Harvey Frand, the show's producer, says the switch to HD from film was required in order to make the show affordable to produce. But despite that reality, he says that Rymer resisted and constantly fought to return to film. Rymer, however, now raves about the show's HD production model. He promises to direct more episodes for season two (the show was renewed shortly before press time), and he says his Battlestar experience has convinced him to seriously consider shooting his new movie in HD.

What changed his mind? How did both shows, which essentially represent the state-of-the-art for producing high-end science fiction for television, transition into HD production? What have been the advantages, disadvantages, lessons, and visual effects and post consequences of these two moves into the HD acquisition universe? To answer these questions, Millimeter recently chatted with key production and post players intimately involved in both shows.

Rymer explains his initial HD reticence as a mixture of past experience, misconceptions, and miscommunication. “During the miniseries, we established the aesthetic for Battlestar Galactica, and that was done on film,” he says. “We wanted a documentary- style quality and a gritty look in keeping with that. So we were pushing grain and making depth of field as shallow as we could and doing lots of handheld, long-lens work. So, going into the series, from what I knew about HD, which was admittedly limited, I had a concern that it would not be conducive to applying this sort of documentary aesthetic.

“I had previously done some HD tests for a micro-budget feature in which exterior daylight work was less than satisfactory — probably that is the worst environment for HD. In applying that experience in my mind to Battlestar Galactica, I couldn't see how we could make it work. That was my initial reaction. Then, we went through our first phase of testing with [DP Steve McNutt], who had experience with HD. Steve was primarily doing tests for himself, to test lighting and things. My first impression of those tests was not favorable either because it wasn't grungy enough for the look of our show — it was mainly clean, bright lines. The video was picking up the fluorescent bars of various consoles on our [spaceship interior] set. I saw a slick, high- tech environment, which might be great for some sci-fi shows, but not for ours. That made me even grumpier. By then, I had a pretty bad attitude about HD.”

However grumpy, though, Rymer was informed that HD was the only option. McNutt was given more direction about Rymer's concerns for the next round of tests, and Rymer started to cheer up.

“Steve pushed gain, desaturated, and tweaked things using his state-of-the-art video village,” Rymer recalls. “What I realized is that the video village, which I called the crab shack, had technology in it that someone with experience could use to transform the imagery into the look we wanted. He really pushed the gain; he brought up digital noise, which approximated film grain nicely, and he showed me the control he could have. It wasn't perfect — daylight exteriors are still a limitation — but it became clear we could maintain, and even improve, the gritty look we had previously established."

McNutt's “crab shack” is, in reality, a Sony MSU 750 (Master Setup Unit) system for realtime image painting, combined with a Sony 20in. BVM-D20 F1E HD monitor and a Sony 14in. BVM-14 H5E HD monitor, encased in a portable tent that McNutt designed himself. There McNutt toils, with assistance from video engineer Michael Sankey, to finalize the look of each episode, manipulating color as needed on set. This kind of setup, he explains, is the entire reason that shooting digitally now makes sense on shows like Battlestar Galactica.

HDNair

04-09-07, 12:49 AM

Thanks for the info michaeltscott. I was specifically wondering how they've achieved that look with HD. Not that I'm in love with the look of the show (it's worked), but it really speaks to the versatility of HD.

JeffAHayes

04-11-07, 12:34 AM

I'm not in love with that look on a Sci-Fi show, either, HDNair... at least not all the time. Gritty and grainy is OK for part of the time... for memories, for outdoor scenes when it's supposed to be bad weather, or dusty... or low light... or just for overall effect in a lot of different situations...

And being a photographer, myself, I'm no stranger to the need for shallow depth-of-field and so forth (although, frankly, LONG depth of field is usually much more difficult to achieve).

However, I think a true artist knows when to make things look gritty and grainy and when to make them look light, airy, bright and beautiful, and I DO think I see some of that on the Cylon ships... All the "look" on the BSG is pretty grainy, whereas most of the colors on the Cylon ships seem bright and crisp. I HOPE that's deliberate, because I feel sticking to ONE THING all the time is just being stubborn for the sake of stubbornness.

I mean, WHO wants to look at gritty, grainy Capricas and Sharons, anyway? :-P
Jeff

rezzy

04-11-07, 05:05 PM

Yep, I’ve definitely felt the same way for some time now. OTOH , I think RDM is so obsessed with playing fake-out with his audience and keeping them guessing, I wouldn’t put it past him to have a P.A. monitor the various BSG forums, do a headcount of the current sentiment, and then RDM tries to support the minority position.A lot of people poo-poo at such suggestions (especially in the Lost forum), but you never really know. I personally wouldn't do it, but folk scour the web for such ideas all the time. And it would be nice to impact the show in ways other than simply watching it.

darthsammy

04-12-07, 08:52 AM

greetings, does anyone know when season 3 is releasing on dvd

michaeltscott

04-12-07, 11:59 AM

However, I think a true artist knows when to make things look gritty and grainy and when to make them look light, airy, bright and beautiful, and I DO think I see some of that on the Cylon ships... All the "look" on the BSG is pretty grainy, whereas most of the colors on the Cylon ships seem bright and crisp. I HOPE that's deliberate, because I feel sticking to ONE THING all the time is just being stubborn for the sake of stubbornness.Yesterday, I watched Saturday's rebroadcast of an episode on UHD, being the first of the "Eye of Jupiter" episodes. It featured interiors of Galactica, a Cylon baseship and exterior and interior shots on the unnamed "Algae Planet" (valley, temporary work shed, Temple of Five) and I can attest that its not all gritty. The Algae Planet is not gritty, interior or exterior, though the exterior shots have an overexposed look that makes it seem as though the sun there is abnormally white and bright. Shots in the baseship have oversaturated colors and blown-out highlights; individual objects and people have a sort of soft corona around them. Though there might be a little of the film-grain like digital noise effect applied, it's much less pronounced than on Galactica.

scanpa

04-12-07, 12:37 PM

greetings, does anyone know when season 3 is releasing on dvd

End of 2007, Oct, Nov, Dec area. for a US release.

Late Summer 2007 for a UK release.

DaveTheWaveUSMC

04-12-07, 03:17 PM

Starbuck is not a cylon... she was taken by the "White Angel Aliens" just like the original Starbuck was in the original series...

Just my $0.02

JeffAHayes

04-13-07, 02:43 AM

Well, since I've seen like 1.5 episodes of the "original" series (in re-run, accidentally, sometime in the past few years -- not impressed, lol -- and I think one of those was on Earth, with the flying motorcycles, although I had NO IDEA what was going on), I can't say I have any idea what the "White Angel Aliens" are, either.

Are they anything like the "whitelighters" in "Charmed?"

If so, you'll probably have to explain THAT to me, too, as I think I caught about 3.5 episodes of THAT during its 7? 8? 9? seasons, lol. (had cute chicks in it, though) ;)

DaveTheWaveUSMC

04-13-07, 11:47 AM

They are the "Beings of Light"

Episode: "War of the Gods, Part II"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Gods_%28Battlestar_Galactica%29

While returning in the shuttle, Starbuck and Sheeba are overtaken by the same ship of lights, appearing inside the ship dressed all in white. Angelic beings lead them to Apollo's body. The angels, as Starbuck calls them, indicate that Apollo was not meant to die and is of great importance. They raise him from the dead and tell Starbuck that they are on the same side of a struggle - as humans are, the angels once were. The pilots are all returned to the fleet. Adama has a celebratory dinner where Apollo, Starbuck, and Sheeba seem to have little recollection of what happened, except for a sense of light and goodness. Then their last recollections come out - the coordinates of Earth.

In the original series it was Apollo that died, may be the new series has switched it to Starbuck...

DaveTheWaveUSMC

04-13-07, 11:49 AM

Well, since I've seen like 1.5 episodes of the "original" series (in re-run, accidentally, sometime in the past few years -- not impressed, lol

I know what you mean... I grew up on the original series and looking back at it is painful...

Palladin

04-13-07, 05:40 PM

I know what you mean... I grew up on the original series and looking back at it is painful...
I'm always a little uncomfortable with the similarities (names, plotlines, etc.) between BSG OS (which I thought was trash at the time, particularly with Star Wars as the only real reference point ); versus the nuance and intelligence of the 'reborn 'BSG.

Its kind of like finding out that Dune was based upon a Bazooka Joe bubble gum comic. :eek: :rolleyes:

_____________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Iteki

04-13-07, 05:43 PM

I'm always a little uncomfortable with the similarities (names, plotlines, etc.) between BSG OS (which I thought was trash at the time, particularly with Star Wars as the only real reference point ); versus the nuance and intelligence of the 'reborn 'BSG.

Its kind of like finding out that Dune was based upon a Bazooka Joe bubble gum comic. :eek: :rolleyes:

_____________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Bazooka Joe! You can't throw a clock across a room to see if time flies! :-)

FreeBaGeL

04-24-07, 01:51 AM

I'm a few pages behind so I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, but I just watched the season finale again and did anyone notice the little foreshadowing/play Moore used in a line by Anders early on the episode?

His character said "no reason to get excited" (a key line in All Along the Watchtower) in a casual conversation with Racetrack (at least that's who I can best recall it was).

JeffAHayes

04-24-07, 02:45 AM

It's been a few weeks since I last saw that episode, so I don't remember that line (and I really don't know the words to that song that well, although since they played it on the radio the other day, I paid better attention than I ever have before, and DID notice those lyrics).

I'm SURE if Anders said that, it was DELIBERATE foreshadowing... There are very few "accidents" in the world of carefully written and edited TV and movies like "Battlestar Gallactica."

On that note, a bit of "technical jargon" I learned in college (I had an English/journalism professor who was a REAL movie buff -- he actually made national headlines when he was at the University of Oklahoma for teaching the first-ever course focusing entirely on the films of Clint Eastwood)...

Anyway, one of the terms he taught us in relation to photography -- primarily moving photography, but it can also apply to still photography -- is a French term called mis en scene', which means "what's in the scene." What that means is, that if you watch a movie or TV show "critically," you always look at everything in the scene -- every prop, door, window, telephone, book, lamp, actor, etc., because a skillful director and cinematographer will have ONLY EXACTLY what he wants in any given frame, and sometimes very minor things in a scene may be setting up some significant action to follow (such as an open window in a horror movie often means that the killer or creature is going to come through that window, so you should keep your eye on it -- although it CAN be something quite more subtle... You can also look at HOW the scene is framed... the left side of the frame is the "heavy side" and the right side is the "light side." Characters on the left side tend to be those in most peril... Moving from left to right signifies a move towards some positive achievement or victory, whereas, moving from right to left signifies a move towards danger... Moving directly towards or away from the camera signals uncertainty, such as when the cowboy rides off into the sunset at the end of the movie, straight away from the camera.

An excellent example of the right-left movement is at the end of the movie "Full Metal Jacket," where the soldiers are marching in formation from left to right, and suddenly the perspecitive moves and they're all moving from right to left, signifying the fact that they were all moving towards the peril that was our eventual loss and pullout in the Viet Nam war.

This is all really interesting stuff, and there's a lot more to it. It makes watching TV and movies much more interesting, IF you're able to relax and enjoy the story and STILL pay attention to the details of how things are shot without letting the technical details overwhelm your senses so that you can't enjoy the actual content, which I never do.

Happy Viewings!
Jeff

help-r-monkey

04-24-07, 09:55 AM

Anybody pick up any of the hints in the last few episodes of BGS in UHD about the revel of the four "new" cylons? Specifically Anders, Chief Tyrol and possibly Baltar.

Steve Scherrer

04-24-07, 10:31 AM

I haven't been watching the last few episodes of BSG on UHD, but my wife and I have been ruminating on the finale for the past several weeks (Geez, January 2008 is a long time coming...)

Anyway, some random thoughts about the nature of BSG in general:

-With respect to All Along the Watchtower, I still don't buy the "coincidental" nature of using that song. In interviews, Ron Moore has said he has always wanted to use that song, and it isn't meant to signify that it came from earth, but could have come from within the fleet or Caprica from someone who just happened to write an identical song to the one we know on earth--either coincidentally, or from some primordial cosmic source from which both composers (here on earth, and on Caprica or the fleet) drew from. Perhaps the latter I could kind of be ok with, but from a storytelling point of view, it is simply confusing if it means nothing more than a cosmic coincidence. It is almost like this "breaks the fourth wall" in theater by referencing something from the "real" world in a fictional world that isn't supposed to be connected. Except, we do know that the BSGers and our own earth ARE connected, so it makes sense that the song could actually have originated here on earth and somehow made it's way out to the BSG universe. Does this then imply that the events taking place on BSG occur long after our present day events?

-RDM has mentioned that the remaining cylons are fundamentally different from the other known cylons. But there is something odd going on as well. Here are some ruminations about that:
1. Humans made the cylons--it is assumed that humans made the metal robots. They made them as slaves that eventually rebelled.
2. Humans were surprised to see the skinjobs, which implies that humans had nothing to do with making the skinjobs. But what if that isn't true. What if humans had a hand in designing the original 12 cylon models as hybrid genetically engineered human/machines?
3. The tagline constantly says that the cylons "evolved." If the original cylons were "toasters", what happened to the metal-type decision makers? Back during the original cylon revolution, there had to be more than just the centurions-the lumbering brainless warriors. Did the cylon decision makers eventually evolved into the 7 (or 12) cylons we know?
4. The final five cylons are somehow connected to the Lords of Kobol. The vision of the final five that Deanna had were in the Temple of Five, in the Eye of Jupiter, where she sees the final five, and recognizes them. We now 4 of the 5 (like Tigh, who has been in the fleet for years--since the early war...) Are the cylons the original Lords of Kobol? Are they genetically engineered from DNA from the Lords? There is some fundamental connection between them that I just can't figure out at this point in time.
5. I was originally of the thought that the skinjob cylons were direct descendants of the Lords of Kobol, but my wife actually made a good point (in line with point number 2, above)--what if humans created the original skinjobs (unbeknownst to the rest of humanity on the colonies), and created them in the image of their Lords?

lax01

04-24-07, 10:31 AM

Anybody pick up any of the hints in the last few episodes of BGS in UHD about the revel of the four "new" cylons? Specifically Anders, Chief Tyrol and possibly Baltar.

lol you don't want to be in this thread ;)

michaeltscott

04-24-07, 02:15 PM

lol you don't want to be in this thread ;)By which he means that this thread is a discussion of the series as it airs on Sci Fi--all episodes up through the season ending have been discussed here already, so if you don't want to know what happens, don't go back and read earlier posts. There used to be a "Battlestar Galactica on UniHD (No Spoilers)" thread somewhere. There are a few threads with "Battlestar" in the title in the HDTV Programming (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=34) forum, but none of them has been posted to since mid-January.

help-r-monkey

04-24-07, 04:15 PM

I have followed the thread all season. But I was just saying after seeing these episodes re-air on Universal HD I have picked up on a bit more thats makes sense with the season finally. For instance The chief mysteriously finding the temple of the five, which I know was posted earlier about him possibly being a cylon. I the episode before finding the temple Deanna shows Baltar some drawings and in them one suspiciously looks like Gius. Anders talking to Kara in the last UHD episode he states that he too might have some purpose or destiny, which is later confirmed. I was just bringing this back up because well....it's not January yet.

JeffAHayes

04-24-07, 05:52 PM

So, help-r-monkey, you're NOT "in the dark" as to the TRUE season finale, huh? You're just bringing up points as you get to see them again on UHD?

Good man!

I didn't notice that particular point, but then I'm not set up to record anything above "basic cable" at present, since my only recording setup is through Media Center and I have that run through basic cable, so I have to watch "LIVE" and get what I can while it's on.

I think it all comes down to "four little words..." "THEY HAVE A PLAN..."

Moore had YET to give us ANY idea what that plan IS... perhaps he's not sure yet, himself... but when THE PLAN IS finally revealed, I'm thinking most of these questions WILL be answered.

So far, we've really seen NO inkling of anything resembling "a plan," other than to wipe out ALL humans, and I really think THAT "plan" is more a figment of Brother Cavels megalamania than anything else (I'm looking for HIM to be the next one "boxed"). I REALLY think the "PLAN" has more to do with crossbreeding with humans than anything else -- it's the only thing that could TRULY ensure the longterm survival of both the Cylons and the Humans.

I guess we'll know in about a year... MAYBE, lol.

replayrob

04-25-07, 09:37 AM

Real life “New Caprica” possibly found!
http://www.optonline.net/News/Article/Feeds?CID=type%3Dxml%26channel%3D32%26article%3D21942153
Oh, the star system is a mere 20.5 light years away......
Mr Gata..... spin up the FTL, and plot a jump!!

PS... My wife doesn't watch BSG, but she understands the basic premise from my descriptions of certain episodes. When I mentioned the above article to her this morning- without hesitation she said "maybe that's where we came from?" Again, life imitates art. Isn't it strange how humans can feel like aliens on the earth. :D

lax01

04-25-07, 11:36 AM

I wonder if anyone will care about this show in January 08....its way too long of a break for a tv show

DaveTheWaveUSMC

04-25-07, 11:53 AM

For what it's worth, I'll still care...

epsilon

04-25-07, 02:00 PM

I wonder if anyone will care about this show in January 08....its way too long of a break for a tv showDon't forget there will be a TV movie in the fall.

JeffAHayes

04-25-07, 05:38 PM

Lots of shows take breaks almost that long... "24" breaks for almost that long, and it has HUGE ratings... People remember... and Sci-Fi starts promoting the new season MONTHS in advance.

Whether it's too long of a break for a TV show, or not, is a matter for debate, perhaps, but I bet the audience will be back -- INCLUDING YOU, lax01, lol...

Now, on to that "New Caprica" mentioned above, which was the post in my email that brought me here.

I'd already read the article from AOL's desktop News, and it doesn't look much like a "New Caprica" to me, lol, being a Red Dwarf, 20 times closer to the planet than Earth is to our sun, with the planet likely NOT rotating and weighing 1.5 times as much (so you'd weigh 1.5 times as much, and everything would have a red cast to it). The SOLE CONSIDERATION for the "NEWS" of this news is that this is the first extra-solar-system planet found that COULD support "life as we know it," and that includes planets like Mars, so it doesn't have to be VERY hospitable.

As they're basing their predictions on what conditions on this planet might be like on some very broad assumptions, it's ALL still pretty much guesswork, but with literally BILLIONS of other planets likely in just our galaxy, the likelihood there are other inhabited planets out there is still VERY HIGH in my opinion, UNLESS there IS something VERY SPECIAL about Earth.

Over and out, Five by Five (I FINALLY found out what five by five means :)
Jeff

HDNair

04-26-07, 04:01 AM

Don't forget there will be a TV movie in the fall.

I'll wait for that one to air on UHD (assuming it does). I hope Sci-Fi is HD by the time season 4 starts.

help-r-monkey

04-26-07, 09:33 AM

So far, we've really seen NO inkling of anything resembling "a plan,"

The "plan" we know of so far involves finding a way for cylons to breed and they are trying to find earth also to make it thier new home.

Anyone else wonder what Earth timeline this series is taking place. I am thinking our future or some alternate universe, because tying the series to any present day or our history would be very difficult.(unless they use something like the Atlantis Mythology)

JeffAHayes

04-26-07, 11:27 PM

For some time I've been contemplating the possibility that they arrive at Earth just prior to the "dawn of civilization" somewhere in the vicinity of Greece, after enough crossbreeding and in-fighting and whatnot that some of them have decided to ASSUME the personas of the "Gods" they worship to imbue their religious beliefs to the vastly inferior civilization they encounter....

Thus, they actually BECOME the genesis for the Greek culture and its Gods and Goddesses, with, perhaps, Six as Aphrodite, Sharon as Hera, and so forth, with different humans and Cylons and also some crossbreeds taking on the personnas we know from Greek mythology, using the advanced technology they possess to appear Godlike to a primitive people who would DOUBTLESS consider any beings able to fly and shoot firebolts that can destroy entire cities with apparently no effort, defy gravity, and the many other feats of technology that are commonplace in the world of BSG as "supernatural."

Consider how one of US would be treated were we able to perfect a time machine and take our modern technology several thousand years into the past and "present ourselves" to "the royal court(s)" of the world at that time... instant-light blowtorches, flame throwers, machine guns, laptop computers and DVD players and Digital cameras and camcorders... cordless communications; instant-light gas stoves and grills -- the list could be thousands of items long, and one person, well packed, with a decent time machine, could travel to the right place and instantly become a KING, or a God, or pretty much whatever he or she wanted, so long as he or she didn't end up being captured and burned as a witch or demon (really need a failsafe return switch for that time machine, lol).

My point being, this doesn't HAVE to be present day -- or the future -- it could VERY EASILY work into Earth History the same way the mythology of Stargate: SG1 works into the mythology of Ancient Egypt, England and Scandanavia.

Just a little somethin' to chew on.
Jeff

And I'm REALLY voting for Caprica Six as Aphrodite/Venus... REALLY, lol.

help-r-monkey

04-27-07, 10:57 PM

Well The biggest problem for using anything near our present for time line is that the 13th colony arrived at Earth approx. 4000yrs before the events of the series. Which to put the original arrival of the colony at the time of Atlantis for example circa 4000-2000BCE. puts the series arriving at Earth this time quite tricky without using some alternate universe scenario. Perhaps putting the 13th colony back a bit further would make more sense. say 10000BCE a date some claim to be when the great pyramids were actually built. This may make more sense for setting up a story of an advanced civilization suddenly appearing in history.

JeffAHayes

04-27-07, 11:53 PM

help-r-monkey

04-28-07, 03:46 AM

Maybe they they landed in south/central america and built those pyramids? After TOS mentions the aztecs and the mayans.

JeffAHayes

04-28-07, 09:37 PM

No, I think it's explained somewhere about Season 4 or 5 of SG1 that Daniel Jackson's grandfather found one of the Ancient artifacts in one of the Mayan or Aztec temples...

Man, don'tchaknow to be a TRUE Sci-Fi Geek, yagottabe cross-Sci-Fi-cultural??? :p

Then again, I never COULD get into Babylon Five, and just BARELY got into the waning days of both Andromeda AND FarScape (never DID see all the eps of either), so I guess I'm not full "geekified" either, lol.

But I gots my SG1 down good (even though I came to that one late -- I got CAUGHT UP -- have to admit, that was about the same time I got "Buffified," and I got caught up with that one even faster -- best danged show I ever thought would be stupid until I watched just ONE episode, and then I didn't even CARE, lol.)

However, I must say, for pure writing, story, directing and so forth, BSG is "a cut above" the rest (even though there are story components about SG1 that have me liking it perhaps better for personal reasons -- a "kinder, more considerate, American military, yadda yadda...").

As for BSG, I hope wherever Moore goes with this, he leaves it on a positive note. I KNOW the "considered, artful thing to do" is to end with tragedy, but TO HELL WITH ART, I like leaving with a good feeling ;)
Jeff

help-r-monkey

04-28-07, 10:10 PM

JeffAHayes

04-28-07, 10:24 PM

Well I would like to think Moore is going to leave the BSG series with the story coming full circle. Good or bad it should end with the feeling or knowledge it will all happen again(ala the Matrix, see i do know SOME sci-fi).

Ah never thought ya didn't, Mr. Monkey... Ah don't play wid da ninnies... they ain't no fun... an' ifn' I'm pickin' on ya a little bit, that means I LIKE ya! :D

But don't go gettin' da big head, now :eek: 'cause I don't no any big heads (just lotsa big butts)... and to quote the rock band, Queen, "Fat-bottomed girls, you make the rockin' world go round."

As for MY fat bottom, well, I just need to keep losing it, lol (I feel SO safe talking like this in THIS thread since I STILL don't think there are ANY gals in here, lol).
Jeff

archiguy

04-29-07, 03:05 PM

I just happened upon this bottle of "Caprica Cambria Pinot Noir" the other day in the wine store. I do believe this might be the offical wine of BSG! :D

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/504/BSG_wine.JPG

keenan

04-29-07, 03:16 PM

Nice try, but that bottle of wine has nothing to do with BSG, or Caprica. :)

http://www.cambriawines.com/wines/julia_pinot.html
Cambria - Estate Wines - Julia's Pinot Noir

archiguy

04-29-07, 06:13 PM

Nice try, but that bottle of wine has nothing to do with BSG, or Caprica. :)

http://www.cambriawines.com/wines/julia_pinot.html
Cambria - Estate Wines - Julia's Pinot Noir

I dunno.... check out the shape of that label. ;)

keenan

04-29-07, 07:02 PM

I dunno.... check out the shape of that label. ;)
I don't see it, I see a pic of a vineyard..??

JeffAHayes

04-29-07, 08:32 PM

I SWEAR I didn't see the word CAPRICA on there ANYWHERE -- at least not at THAT size picture... HOWEVER, if by popular acclimation, this thread wants to name that the "official" BSG wine, I have no qualms with that designation ;)

archiguy

04-30-07, 06:59 AM

I don't see it, I see a pic of a vineyard..??

Aw, c'mon. It's the shape of the label, not the name that makes it the official wine of BSG..... get it? :cool: :)

Don H

04-30-07, 07:13 AM

[QUOTE=JeffAHayes]Lots of shows take breaks almost that long... "24" breaks for almost that long, and it has HUGE ratings... People remember... and Sci-Fi starts promoting the new season MONTHS in advance.

And if you were paying attention to the lastest ratings on series taking a long break you would see that they are taking a beating in the ratings.

petergaryr

04-30-07, 08:06 AM

Aw, c'mon. It's the shape of the label, not the name that makes it the official wine of BSG..... get it? :cool: :)

Finally, got it. The corners are cut off, right? ;)

JeffAHayes

04-30-07, 09:10 AM

MY "corners" are probably "cut off," too! :eek: :D

archiguy

04-30-07, 10:27 AM

Finally, got it. The corners are cut off, right? ;)

Ah, finally. :p

JeffAHayes

04-30-07, 10:45 AM

Yaknow, I've YET to notice the "cut corners" on the show... and that's sort of unusual for me, as I'm usually one for details, but I guess that's just something that never caught my eye.

Frankly, it actually "perturbs me, a bit," when a sci-fi show set in a distant galaxy, or wherever, has SO MANY similarities to US (language, species, major and most minor technologies), then makes tiny LITTLE changes just to "be different," like "Frak," just so they can "get away" with the "F" word and get it by the censors (heck, there ain't no censors on Cable, anyway, but they censor themselves, anyway... and besides, "Frak" originated on "Farscape," as far as I can tell, yet BSG acts like they invented it, lol)... or cut corners on all the paper, which I agree may have just been a statement by the directors/producers about what they were either forced to do (or were unwilling to do) visa vi the show.

Frankly, I've found it MUCH easier just to "forgive" the Star Trek and Stargate series' for just automatically having practically EVERYONE speak almost perfect English and never even bothering to try to explain it away on Stargate (Star Trek had the "Universal Translator).

I mean, it's Sci-Fi, and even those of us who are SURE the odds say there MUST be other advanced intelligent life throughout this galaxy and the billions of others think it's highly unlikely that unless there really IS a "definite plan" at work on how that higher life develops, it's HIGHLY UNLIKELY they all end up looking very much like we do... and next to impossible any of them speak any language recognizeable by ANYONE on Earth -- unless they have already probed us and learned it from us... That aside, it would make for very difficult stories if the characters couldn't communicate, so I cut shows like Stargate slack in such areas, so they can TELL THEIR STORIES...

As for BSG feeling the need to have different names for more than just "Frak," like "dradis" for radar, and so forth... I REALLY don't see the point. For the less serious (and less technical/geeky sci-fi fan, I think it just makes it harder for them to watch the show as they try to figure out what characters are referring to -- took me a while on some of the terminology, and I'm a pretty MAJOR sci-fi fan, but I also have the patience to sit and wait and just figure it out or let stuff I don't "get" pass by until I do). I see NO reason not to have just called it "radar." Just as I also see NO REASON why they can't play Bob Dylan/Jimi Hendrix music on there -- who cares where it came from?

Unless the characters make reference to its source, it's just music.

Sorry, but sometimes I don't see the point some of you folks are making... And frankly, I can't WAIT until a bottle of that "Caprica Cambria" wine pops up in a scene :cool:
Jeff

DaveTheWaveUSMC

04-30-07, 10:59 AM

keenan

04-30-07, 11:08 AM

Aw, c'mon. It's the shape of the label, not the name that makes it the official wine of BSG..... get it? :cool: :)
Okay, it's a stretch, but I'll give it to you. :p Wine labels with cut corners are pretty common, I guess that's why I didn't see it. :)

JeffAHayes

04-30-07, 11:10 AM

Ya got me, Dave... I'm not much of a Sci-Fi READER, at all, with the exception of a little Bradbury... and I didn't watch many of the TV shows prior to the 80s, other than Star Trek and some Twilight Zone and similar programs, so I probably missed where these things came from (no time to read the Wiki reference right now, but I'll take your word for it).

As for the English vs. Subtitles, I applaud that attitude. There was a time when "foreign-language films" were routinely dubbed for American audiences. Then all the "purist, artiste" types rebelled against that, and now it seems almost NONE of them are... It's a real shame, too, because I miss some REALLY GOOD MOVIES, sometimes, on HBO or Cinemax or one of the other cable channels, because there's just TOO MUCH DIALOGUE for me to keep up with both reading the subtitles AND follow the action and "focus on/enjoy the imagery," as it were.

There have been a few... The first one I ever remember watching FIRST in subtitles... then happened to catch it again in the dubbed version... both were SPECTACULAR... couldn't leave the room for a second for refreshments or bathroom break -- was a foreign-language Oscar winner from a good many years back titled, simply "Z." If you ever get the chance, watch that one even if it IS in subtitles... And anything with the Latino actress Paz Vega... she takes her clothes off a good bit, and is also an EXCELLENT actress... The two movies I've seen her in were well done, both subtitled, both worth the subtitles without the nudity... but trust me, WITH the nudity they were MORE than worth it.

I've really tried to watch a few more -- including one from South Africa -- that I just COULDN'T. I DID sit through the entire movie "Osama," the very FIRST movie made in Afghanistan after it was freed from Taliban rule (a movie about what the girls and women there had to go through under the Taliban to survive), and it was worth it just for the education... But it's a movie I'd have watched twice, if not for the subtitles.

We SHOULD have a choice when it comes to subtitles. Thanks to "purists," we DON'T.
Jeff

archiguy

04-30-07, 11:15 AM

Frankly, it actually "perturbs me, a bit," when a sci-fi show set in a distant galaxy, or wherever, has SO MANY similarities to US (language, species, major and most minor technologies), then makes tiny LITTLE changes just to "be different," like "Frak," just so they can "get away" with the "F" word and get it by the censors (heck, there ain't no censors on Cable, anyway, but they censor themselves, anyway... and besides, "Frak" originated on "Farscape," as far as I can tell, yet BSG acts like they invented it, lol)... or cut corners on all the paper, which I agree may have just been a statement by the directors/producers about what they were either forced to do (or were unwilling to do) visa vi the show.

Got to clear up a couple of misconceptions.... first, don't mistake "pay cable" channels like SciFi, USA, FX, etc. with "premium cable channels" like HBO, Showtime, Cinemax, etc. You can't use "real" profanity, or show "real" nudity, on the former, but you can on the latter. There's very little you can't do on premium cable and most of that crosses over into what is commonly thought of as pornography.

Secondly, "frak" is indeed a BSG creation. What you're thinking of with 'Farscape' is "frell", if I'm not mistaken. (I didn't watch the "muppet show"; a bit too silly for my tastes.) I like "frak" and have just about substituted it for the other well-known epithet starting with an "f". Using that handy-dandy euphanism, you can cuss all you want around whomever you want. It's great! And also, a measure of sanity when you consider how weird it is for society to censor mere words according to collective whim. But that's another issue...

archiguy

04-30-07, 11:21 AM

Okay, it's a stretch, but I'll give it to you. :p Wine labels with cut corners are pretty common, I guess that's why I didn't see it. :)

First one I saw like that, so I grabbed it up to get a picture for the Forum. Pretty good pinot, too, as it turns out! I guess I've never seen any other wine labels with the corners cut off because the boxes don't typically have labels. ;)

keenan

04-30-07, 11:26 AM

First one I saw like that, so I grabbed it up to get a picture for the Forum. Pretty good pinot, too, as it turns out! I guess I've never seen any other wine labels with the corners cut off because the boxes don't typically have labels. ;)
:p :D

JeffAHayes

04-30-07, 12:12 PM

Actually, Archiguy, I'm not a true "expert" on FCC rules, but I'm pretty sure the obscenity clauses only TRULY apply to BROADCAST channels, and the only reason the non-pay channels, such as Sci-Fi, USA, FX, etc., hold "a line" on obscenity, nudity and vulgarity is because since they come as part of a "basic cable" or "extended cable" package, they...

1. Don't want to go TOO FAR and end up getting booted off some of the major carriers' lineups or put on too many "parental controls."

2. Perhaps they think/feel like folks PAY for the privilege with HBO and the others, so why should they air it "for free," lol. But I'm really PRETTY SURE there's no actual "law" on them, like there is with the broadcast channels, and I've got a good idea FX is proving that point with some of its shows like "The Shield" and "Dirt." There was an episode of "Dirt" this first season recently ended where the photographer had to go on the set of a porno movie to try to find this retiring star and get some pictures of her... he passed half a dozen nude actors and actresses, and they showed them ALL nude (from the back), for quite some time (nude buttocks are BIG on FX, lol)... And "The Shield," well I think I've heard just about every single ONE of George Carlin's "seven famous words" come out of Vic Mackey's mouth on THAT show.

Those shows are routinely rated TV MA-SLV, which is the same rating "The Sopranos" gets, although they don't use quite as much profanity or nudity as does that and similar shows.

Sci-Fi, on the other hand, is OBSESSIVE about it. They blur out ANY HINT of nudity in a movie and cut out or garble language that would play on regular broadcast TV, which quite often bewilders me... Very much so, in fact, considering they're owned by NBC-Universal, and although I can't remember specifics offhand, I CAN remember instances where they garbled words like GD, which I KNOW I'd heard on shows like "Law & Order." Figure THAT ONE out, lol.

loco

05-11-07, 08:55 AM

http://www.ifmagazine.com/new.asp?article=4445

If you haven't finished Season Three, don't read the Edward James Olmos interview. There are spoilers.

Looks like Season Four will be the last. I'm bummed in a way, but also excited. If this is indeed the final season, it should kick major butt. They have plenty of time to plan it out and end it with a bang.

petergaryr

05-11-07, 09:38 AM

I guess the good news is that there will not be a "Galactica 2010" as a counterpart to "Galactica 1980".

Although, considering what they did in the reimaging of BGS, maybe.....nah, no matter how you cut it, flying motorcycles, super scouts and time travel battles with nazis will not work no matter how it is reimaged.

JeffAHayes

05-11-07, 03:42 PM

"As God is my witness---I thought turkeys could fly."
WKRP available on DVD minus original music & edited episodes.
Still a great series!

Peter, when you say, "minus original music & edited episodes," what exactly does that mean? I've not really followed this controversy, other than to see a few other brief mentions on this thread.

Do I gather the problem with music was NOT the theme to WKRP, but with rights to distribute the DVDs with the original musical recordings that were being played by Johnny Fever and Venus Flytrap? I know such things can be a veritable nightmare, and even some long-dead musicians and record companies have held up DVD releases of some documentaries for the same sort of reasons (NPR had a long story a while back about this... I don't remember quite which documentary it was, but there were recordings in there of songs from as far back as the 1920s for which they weren't even sure WHERE TO LOOK for copyright holders, yet because of such concerns, the legal department wouldn't allow the DVD to be released until EVERYTHING was accounted for... I really DON'T think this is what Congress intended when they re-wrote the copyright laws in 1975, but yaknow how lawyers are).

So anyway, what DO we end up hearing when they're playing music, and what is "edited" from the shows? And GAWD, please don't tell me the theme is changed! I remember my mom once ordered some el-cheapo copies of old B & W Beverly Hillbillies shows on VHS and they didn't have the theme song... had some stupid sounding yee-haw, lap-slappin' thing, instead... I assume someone was just unwilling to pay Lester Flatt and Earl Scruggs their royalties.

Weird world we live in :rolleyes:
Jeff

petergaryr

05-11-07, 05:57 PM

help-r-monkey

05-11-07, 07:37 PM

A couple things.
1.) As much as I love the show and the direction it has gone, I am glad (and sad)that they are deciding on the fourth being the final season. I will miss having new episodes, but I would much rather have the series go out with a back then having to shoot a dead horse in season 10.

2.) I have been rewatching the third season on UHD, as I have mentioned before, and I am now having thoughts of who is the possible "last undiscovered cylon." What do you think about Tom Zarek being the final cylon? Tom always seems to be in the shadows, pulling strings and making things happen (ie Baltar's election, prison riot, harboring the the fugitive president, secret jury, known terrorist, attempting to talk laura out of giving Baltar a trial........) Just a thought.

petergaryr

05-11-07, 10:49 PM

JeffAHayes

05-12-07, 01:16 AM

I like the fact that even if it IS an abbreviated season, they're going to wrap it up in just ONE MORE season...

I just read in the latest Entertainment Weekly today that ABC has negotiated with the producers of "Lost" (one of my other favorite shows) to stretch it to THREE MORE SEASONS, even though Cuse and Lindeloff wanted to finish it off in just two, because they have just enough material planned for that many episodes. Sooooooo....

Instead of having two more seasons with the standard 22 (or 24 episodes) per season, they're going to have three more seasons with a scant 16 episodes per season because the producers really DON'T want to stretch the story line any thinner than another 48 episodes after this season wraps May 23...

And with such short seasons, this means the NEXT season won't even START until February of 2008 -- which is as bad as (or maybe even worse than) the long break for BSG, but at least it DOES (I think) mean we should have 16 fairly consecutive episodes starting next February (sorry to get too far off-topic on this thread... but it IS kindasorta related, because I can really RESPECT Mr. Moore's decision to do things the way he's doing them -- in the case of "Lost," the extra season is NOT at the behest of the producers, but to satisfy ABC's need to have one more season to satisfy both their domestic and international markets (plus, I'm guessing they think they can sell one more season on DVD that way).

I'd rather have seen a quicker wrap that didn't keep us waiting 8 or 9 months between seasons for the next three years... wouldn't YOU?
Jeff

ss9001

05-12-07, 06:19 AM

Haven't heard this b4 about the 4th being the final season. Is the Olmos interview the only source of this info, or are there any other links to comments by Moore himself?

If true, in a way I'm glad, since some of these series can go on so long they lose whatever made them original (stargate being the most notable). But, I'll sure miss BG; I even hooked my wife, a non-scifi person, on the series. It sure has been a great ride. I'd be satisfied with 5 seasons or a truly full episode 4th that wraps up all the lose ends, character subplots. The Plan has to be revealed with a bang-up believable conclusion. :)

Thanks,
ss9001

petergaryr

05-12-07, 08:25 AM

I will take 4 seasons of quality versus mere airtime.

Once Earth is found, at least that phase of the story is over.

That's not to say there couldn't be some great possibilities for another limited run series showing the after-effects of reaching Earth. Of course, Alien Nation did that already with the issues of integrating "exiles from space" with Earth culture.

ss9001

05-12-07, 08:43 AM

I will take 4 seasons of quality versus mere airtime.

Abso--fraking--lutely! :D
I hope they make it a great wrap-up. Then maybe 1 or 2 special movies similar to B5 would be nice.

ss9001

loco

05-12-07, 09:21 AM

Well, David Eick came out later yesterday and said they had not officially decided on the 4th season being the end.

It sounds to me like EJO wasn't supposed to spill the beans yet. It's funny, but after having time to adjust to the news, now I really would be kind of disappointed if next season isn't the end. I don't want to go through the "will they renew/won't they renew?" drama again, hoping they'll get another season to wrap things up.

Here's the link to the video interviews with Olmos and Sackhoff at the Saturn Awards. He sounds pretty sure to me, even saying "you heard it here first." Then Sackhoff came along and pretty much agreed.
http://iesb.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2465&Itemid=99

As for Lost, when I heard it was going on for THREE more seasons, I pretty much gave up on it. I'm still watching through the end of this season, but I just don't think I can continue for that much longer. That is a story that needs to end next season, IMO.

petergaryr

05-12-07, 10:05 AM

MOREPOWER

05-12-07, 10:17 AM

I agree end it now! They've already added so much filler, that last season could have been it, quit diluting the show!

loco

05-12-07, 10:25 AM

As for Lost, remember, it is actually only for 48 episodes (16 for each of the 3 years)....so it is the equivalent of only around 2 regular seasons. That should give them enough time to decently wrap things up.

Well, as someone said, it's not so much the number of episodes (although 48 is too much for me), it's the time invested. I simply don't think I want to spend three more years watching that show. It's already feeling bloated to me, and I think one more season could've easily wrapped it up.

But back to BSG, all this talk is getting me excited for Season 4, and now I realize once again that it's still EIGHT months away! Grrrr!! I guess the Pegasus movie is "only" six months away, but still...

replayrob

05-12-07, 10:44 AM

I thought 100 episodes were considered the magic number required for successful syndication.
BSG only has 53 episodes so far. One 13 or 20 episode season won't bring them close enough to the magic 100, so I wouldn't be surprised to see a 5th season. A 5th season would also mean another DVD Box Set to sell. Maybe Sci-Fi will bite the bullet and finance an extra season with hopes of larger future income from the franchise after it’s been put to bed.

OT: Katee Sackhoff has been quite busy, "The Last Sentinel" airs tonight on Sci-Fi @ 9PM and she's got two other projects in the works: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0755267/

Palladin

05-12-07, 11:29 AM

I think 4 is the right number for BSG.
Same here. I want to see this show go out on a high note, with the audience focused on how truly unique and (dare I say it) groundbreaking it was in certain respects, not dragging its ass trying to stretch out enough episodes to permit syndication.

OT: Katee Sackhoff has been quite busy, "The Last Sentinel" airs tonight on Sci-Fi @ 9PM and she's got two other projects in the works: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0755267/
Glad to hear that, but I'm disaapointed she hasn't snared another regular gig, because while I don't think she's a great actress, I really do enjoy watching her work. Thought I had heard rumors about her landing on Bionic Woman or Sarah Connor Chronicles (either of which would probably have been a decent fit), but from fredfa's latest columns, it looks like neither was meant to be. Too bad.

_________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

FreeBaGeL

05-12-07, 12:23 PM

I generally think 5 seasons is the perfect number for a great series to run. It's a bit of a catch-22 with me if next year is the last given that it'll be a year short of 5, but it's good to know that A) it won't get dragged on too long, 5 seasons should be the absolute max, and B) the writers know ahead of time when it is going to end and can plan accordingly, not having to rush the ending into the last 3 shows when they find out at the last minute it'll be the last season and then maybe getting into an even larger mess a la Babylon 5.

loco

05-12-07, 12:38 PM

100 is not really the magic number for syndication any more. I think it will be close enough after 4 seasons. Season Four will have 22 hours, including the Pegasus movie. I think that'll bring the episode count up around 80, if you split the miniseries into three episodes. Again, close enough. The problem with syndication isn't going to be the episode count, it's going to be the serialized nature of the show. But I'm sure some cable channel will pick it up. I'd be surprised to see it running on local stations like Stargate does, though.

Katee Sackhoff is playing the "evil" bionic woman in The Bionic Woman and word is that NBC likes it and is going to pick it up for their schedule.

archiguy

05-12-07, 12:45 PM

Glad to hear that, but I'm disaapointed she hasn't snared another regular gig, because while I don't think she's a great actress, I really do enjoy watching her work. Thought I had heard rumors about her landing on Bionic Woman or Sarah Connor Chronicles (either of which would probably have been a decent fit), but from fredfa's latest columns, it looks like neither was meant to be. Too bad.

She will have a part on The Bionic Woman as an early version of the "cyborg" title character. She teased the fans a bit when she said she was involved in another series, but wouldn't give it up; anyway, that's the one. Not sure how extensive her role will be, as she's surely coming back to BSG for the final run, IMO.

I'm sure that if the Gods intervene and BSG manages to increase its audience a significant amount, they'll greenlight a fifth season. But, unfortunately, that's unlikely as ratings have been trending in the opposite direction. I find that terribly disappointing and difficult to understand. I felt this season was the strongest yet, beginning with the remarkable opening segments dealing with the occupation of New Caprica and its aftermath. Others, especially those who got a little uncomfortable with the allegories to current events (let's not even think of such things or the terrorists win), didn't feel the same way. And some just wanted more space battles. :rolleyes:

petergaryr

05-12-07, 01:56 PM

She will have a part on The Bionic Woman as an early version of the "cyborg" title character. She teased the fans a bit when she said she was involved in another series, but wouldn't give it up; anyway, that's the one. Not sure how extensive her role will be, as she's surely coming back to BSG for the final run, IMO.

I'm sure that if the Gods intervene and BSG manages to increase its audience a significant amount, they'll greenlight a fifth season. But, unfortunately, that's unlikely as ratings have been trending in the opposite direction. I find that terribly disappointing and difficult to understand. I felt this season was the strongest yet, beginning with the remarkable opening segments dealing with the occupation of New Caprica and its aftermath. Others, especially those who got a little uncomfortable with the allegories to current events (let's not even think of such things or the terrorists win), didn't feel the same way. And some just wanted more space battles. :rolleyes:

I'm sure you really do understand why the show is failing.

It requires appreciation for intelligent writing on complex topics with no easy answers delivered by actors who are at or near the top of their craft.

Of course, I think the show "Watch Me Open Suitcases For Money" is way more satisfying. :eek:

JeffAHayes

05-12-07, 02:45 PM

I'm sure you really do understand why the show is failing.

It requires appreciation for intelligent writing on complex topics with no easy answers delivered by actors who are at or near the top of their craft.

Of course, I think the show "Watch Me Open Suitcases For Money" is way more satisfying. :eek:

KUDOS, Peter!

Television spends SO MUCH TIME, ENERGY AND MONEY simply PANDERING to the lowest common denominator amongst the human consciousness... It has little to do with intelligence, or even the ability to be intelligent... It's a GREAT DEAL MORE to do with a tendency towards mental LAZINESS and a mass mentality propensity for living vicariously through the accomplishments and achievements of others, which explains the growing fascination with "reality" and game shows where people win lots of money, or even go through intense ordeals and all sorts of emotional "ups and downs." People get to watch this and "live vicariously" through watching it, KNOWING IT'S "REAL," without ever having to actually experience the REAL highs and lows for themselves, thus not taking the personal risk...

For many folks, this has replaced their desire to watch fiction for whatever reason(s) -- I'm guessing it's partly because they know it's NOT "real." And as for shows like BSG, audiences -- even SciFi audiences, tend to quickly tire of or shy away from shows that get too "dark" -- especially if they're both DARK and imaging a parallel message to current events... Add in them having a parallel message wherein the "good guys" are engaging in a practice against which our nation is fighting an "international war," (i.e. terrorism), and you're just BEGGING for trouble, even though I think Moore was making the point on his show that even when you're the "good guys" fighting the "evil Cylons," terrorism is STILL terrorism and VERY DIFFICULT to defend... just as he made the point that secret tribunals with secret verdicts and executions are an EVIL END unto themselves.

That said, I DON'T think this is a message a lot of people WANT to watch or be reminded of at this time... As many people have pointed out, the War in Iraq is the first MAJOR WAR the U.S. has been involved in wherein the "average citizen" feels essentially NO day-to-day impact, other than perhaps seeing some "body count" on the nightly news or in the newspaper (and we still have close to 30% of Americans steadfastly supporting Bush and the war... most saying it's anti-American and a failure to "support the troops" to do otherwise). Of the remaining 70% of Americans, while most don't support the war, most also, sadly, spend very little time thinking about it or doing or saying anything publicly about it...

They feel no impact, unless they happen to have a friend or family member who is deployed to Iraq or has been killed or injured there... There is still no draft; instead, the Army, in order to keep up enlistment, has reduced entrance requirements such that people with less than a high-school education and convicted felons who have served their sentences or been paroled are now eligible to join, thus "dumbing down" our military AND increasing the number of potentially hostile, criminal elements in it. Folks like me, who were just young enough to never have to register for the draft or worry about it, and who never thought we'd see the day we'd call for it, are now joining Andy Rooney and calling for its reinstatement to make things more fair and to improve the quality of the military and also WAKE AMERICA UP to the realities of the situation... Because for now, as you so eloquently pointed out above, Peter, FAR TOO MANY PEOPLE think the most important thing happening weeknights is a bunch of good-looking young ladies opening brief cases full of cash on national TV while a now-bald Howie Mandel keeps everyone's attention focused on anything BUT what's REALLY going on.

I have to wonder JUST HOW FAR AWAY "The Running Man" is!
Jeff

help-r-monkey

05-12-07, 05:09 PM

I have to wonder JUST HOW FAR AWAY "The Running Man" is!
Jeff

I hear that it is replacing "LOST" after the series finally. I agree with you 100% It is a shame we are not asked to sacrifice anything by this administration (because doing so will most certainly get even lower approval ratings) The only thing GWB has asked of us is to continue shopping.

I saw the Money in the suitcase show for the first time and last time over Thanksgiving with some friend. Man, did I really lose alot of respect for them that night.

OK back OT,

I am also suspecting HELO as being the Fifth of the final five since the chief has a kid with callie but HERA is 'specialer' which means either a.) callie cheated or b.) the 'face of things to come' is actually a cylon baby. This would also explain alot of helos actions in the series.

probly too obvious, so I am back to thinking its Zarek.

lax01

05-13-07, 12:51 AM

Did any one watch the Last Sentinel staring Katee on Sci-Fi? I felt so bad for her and had to turn it off...easily one of the worst D movies I've ever seen...she deserves so much better...

JeffAHayes

05-13-07, 02:53 AM

I'm watching the last few minutes of it right now... It's actually not as bad as I thought it might be, and she's pretty good in it, for what that's worth...

Seriously, considering thequality of MOST of the Saturday night "made for Sci-Fi" movies, this one is pretty far above most of the pack.
Jeff

loco

05-13-07, 09:35 AM

I tried to watch it, but I just couldn't. That was awful.

Palladin

05-13-07, 10:10 AM

I tried to watch it, but I just couldn't. That was awful.
Yeah, I took a chance and suffered through about five minutes of it, before pulling the plug.

Poor Kattee, we hardly knew ye. :(

____________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

CANNON-FODDER

05-13-07, 11:21 AM

Poor "What's-his-name" with the catty and incessantly chatty rifle scope.

v/r,
C-F

help-r-monkey

05-13-07, 12:59 PM

I just found this out yesterday. Adamas is greek for (diamond)unconquerable.

petergaryr

05-13-07, 05:11 PM

KUDOS, Peter!

Television spends SO MUCH TIME, ENERGY AND MONEY simply PANDERING to the lowest common denominator amongst the human consciousness... It has little to do with intelligence, or even the ability to be intelligent... It's a GREAT DEAL MORE to do with a tendency towards mental LAZINESS and a mass mentality propensity for living vicariously through the accomplishments and achievements of others, which explains the growing fascination with "reality" and game shows where people win lots of money, or even go through intense ordeals and all sorts of emotional "ups and downs." People get to watch this and "live vicariously" through watching it, KNOWING IT'S "REAL," without ever having to actually experience the REAL highs and lows for themselves, thus not taking the personal risk...

Jeff

Several years ago there was a show called Dinosaurs which had the reptilian characters dealing with contemporary situations. One of my favorite episodes was when Earl was made chief of programming at ABC (Antediluvian Broadcasting Network).

He programmed shows like, "A Box Full of Puppies" and the "Colors Show", that lowered the intelligence of viewers so much, for example, his son Robbie forgot how to breathe.

I think life is mimicking art.

replayrob

05-14-07, 11:42 AM

Did any one watch the Last Sentinel staring Katee on Sci-Fi? I felt so bad for her and had to turn it off...easily one of the worst D movies I've ever seen...she deserves so much better...
If you weren't in it to see a lot of Katee, then it wasn't dreadful.
Kind of reminded me of 1975's "A Boy and His Dog" with the talking rifle taking the place of Don Johnson's telepathic Dog. Damn, lots and lots of gunfire, inane dialogue. Katee could have easily been replaced by any no-name actress. Although she was billed as the co-star, she had a very minor roll in the film. My problem with Katee's character was that she simply disappeared at the most crucial part of the story to then simply reappear once the confrontation is over? You hire a young, physical, athletic actress to play along side a commando type- and then leave her out of the final battle between good and evil... bad script writing there!

Wytchone

05-14-07, 11:48 AM

If you weren't in it to see a lot of Katee, then it wasn't dreadful.
Kind of reminded me of 1975's "A Boy and His Dog" with the talking rifle taking the place of Don Johnson's telepathic Dog. Damn, lots and lots of gunfire, inane dialogue. Katee could have easily been replaced by any no-name actress. Although she was billed as the co-star, she had a very minor roll in the film. My problem with Katee's character was that she simply disappeared at the most crucial part if the story to then simply reappear once the confrontation is over? You hire a young, physical, athletic actress to play along side a commando type- and then leave her out of the final battle between good and evil... bad script writing there!

Fair assessment. I want my 2 hours of my life back :eek:

humdinger70

05-14-07, 02:06 PM

Note: Sci-Fi doing a marathon over two days (Wednesday and Thursday?) this week of 2nd half episodes all the way thru the end of the season. Here's your chance to get caught up!

JeffAHayes

05-14-07, 05:21 PM

You really NAILED the last third of that movie, Wytchone... Just where DID Ms. Katee get to after she blew up her home base, any way? And there was that really STUPID "jump cut" where they showed some of the other supposed rebels, I guess, gunning down now "helpless drones" after Tallis destroyed the computers... and it lasted for like 2 seconds, so you could BARELY follow THAT action... Looked to me like SOMEBODY ran out of money near the end of production and had to scramble to finish (I think this happens A LOT on low-budget movies)... And maybe about that point they told Katee she wasn't going to get what they promised HER and she just said, "Well, SEEYA!" Now THAT would explain why she wasn't in the last third of the movie, huh?

At least this movie DID confirm one question I had... whether all those tattoos on her arms were real, or just "penciled in" for BSG... Looks like they're real.

rezzy

05-14-07, 05:47 PM

Several years ago there was a show called Dinosaurs which had the reptilian characters dealing with contemporary situations. One of my favorite episodes was when Earl was made chief of programming at ABC (Antediluvian Broadcasting Network).

He programmed shows like, "A Box Full of Puppies" and the "Colors Show", that lowered the intelligence of viewers so much, for example, his son Robbie forgot how to breathe.

I think life is mimicking art.How ironic.

ss9001

05-14-07, 06:11 PM

Several years ago there was a show called Dinosaurs which had the reptilian characters dealing with contemporary situations..

Dinosaurs was a funny animated show with good social commentary. We liked it.

The Last Sentinel: waste of 2 hours and Katee. Not even worthy of a rental if it makes it to DVD. I hope Katee gets better opportunities post-BG than this. She can act, I think.

archiguy

05-14-07, 06:48 PM

The Last Sentinel: waste of 2 hours and Katee. Not even worthy of a rental if it makes it to DVD. I hope Katee gets better opportunities post-BG than this. She can act, I think.

Yes, she can. And you'll get a double-dose of Katee this fall with her new role in NBC's 'The Bionic Woman' and (I'm pretty sure) her return to featured status in BSG.

rezzy

05-15-07, 11:28 AM

Remembering the original BW (Lindsay Wagner), this idea sounds kinda ridiculous. But thinking how they remastered BSG into a monster hit, this could actually turn out well. I'm not giving many new shows a looksee, but since this is Katee....

help-r-monkey

05-15-07, 11:55 AM

Palladin

05-15-07, 12:40 PM

I gotta bad feeling about the new BW. I don't have anything against Katee, I just feel even if this turns out to be a really good show that the ratings will be a bust. I am predicting half a season for it.
I've got the same feeling, but only because I watched the extended trailer at NBC.com. Katee looks different, kinda sexy with her hair falling over her forehead. To me, on BSG, Katee was always sexy without having to try to look sexy. Anyway, if this trailer is indicative of what this show will have to offer, I'm afraid it will probably be in big trouble relatively quickly, unless they revamp it by killing off the lead, and making it a showcase for Katee.

Any show with dialogue so insipid that even a great character actor like Miguel Ferrer can't pull it off, is just begging to go back to the shop for a reassembly.

_____________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

JeffAHayes

05-15-07, 02:33 PM

Miguel Ferrer?!?

Is he leaving "Crossing Jordan?!?" Or is "Crossing Jordan" leaving US? I can deal, either way, I guess... they're all just TV shows, after all, lol.

As for the new "Bionic Woman" making it on NBC, all I have to say is, I CAN'T REMEMBER the last time a true SCIENCE FICTION show "made it" for more than a season on one of the "big three." If you remember, last year, three started the season STRONG... "Surface," for whatever reasons, decided to take a definite one-season arc that left it with a good resolution and DEFINITELY nowhere to go (and although it was fun, it had some problems)... "Threshold," was ridiculous and insipid, but just getting better when CBS canned it before even mid-season. "Invasion" was the best of the three by the end of the season and ended with a definite season-one cliffhanger and teasers for a "Season Two" that NEVER MATERIALIZED, much to my dismay!

Shows like "The Ghost Whisperer," which deal more with the "supernatural," as does "Medium," seem to fare much better. "Heroes" is Sci-Fi and I eat it up each week, but I have no idea about the ratings or whether we can look forward to a second season, and from the looks of it, they've written this first season such that it can be a tidy wrap-up if they didn't get renewed.

True science fiction just has a very difficult time drawing and especially HOLDING a large enough audience to satisfy the demands of "big three" advertising dollars... "John Doe" died after one season, too. And even the "supernatural show that took its place, "Joan of Arcadia," died after two and was having to resort to gimmickry to try to get ratings up for a third season, which still didn't work. "Ghost Whisperer" appears to be doing some of the same, although since I don't follow ratings and renewals very much, I don't really know where any of these shows are in that regard...

Truly, LOST is the only REAL science fiction show that has lasted several years and now has three more ahead of it, and its fan base has become SOOOO critical (except me, as I'm sympathetic to what's needed and required)... I know people who lost interest because of the second group of survivors; others who lost interest because of the storyline about "the others." They don't "get" that it's all putting pieces of a bigger puzzle together, a little bit at a time... I just sit back and wait, and I'll withhold any judgment until the final episode.

Same with BSG... Some of you groused about the "lame mid-season off-topic episodes" earlier, then relented a bit when you discovered Moore was biding time to see if he got renewed or not... Yet I withheld judgment, and still do, because there could still ALSO be more to those episodes... There could be material from those episodes used for future development. I felt, at the time, at the very least that they were showing some of the day-to-day trials and travails of life in the fleet -- the sort of thing we didn't usually see, but that HAD TO be there -- and I thought that was important... It wouldn't surprise me one little bit if Mr. Moore brings back one of those characters to play some pivotal small role next season... Perhaps one of the main characters will be in a real jam, with nobody to help them, and someone who would ordinarily look the other way won't because they remember this "higher class" member went the extra step and exposed an evil doctor that was killing their members, for instance... You just never know... TV is never written until the final episode finishes.

Happy Viewings,
Jeff

michaeltscott

05-15-07, 03:08 PM

I've got the same feeling, but only because I watched the extended trailer at NBC.com.I just watched some of the BW clips (http://www.nbc.com/Fall_Preview/Bionic_Woman/). If it makes it onto the schedule, I'll check it out, but I don't have particularly high hopes for it either.

petergaryr

05-15-07, 03:45 PM

Palladin

05-15-07, 04:07 PM

Depending on how they develop the characters and storylines, Bionic Woman may have a chance (as long as they don't do the dopey "slo-mo" video effects like they did in the original).
Peter, have you actually watched all the trailers for this at NBC.Com yet ?

I'm always willing to give science fiction the benefit of the doubt, but this one smells like something you step in.

Yes, its possible that the writing might improve, because anything is possible.

But ultimately, I think its the lead who's going to sink it. That's why I'd say give it to Katee, and hire a script doctor.

________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

loco

05-15-07, 07:27 PM

I hope Bionic Woman is successful, mostly for Katee's sake. She deserves to have a nice long career, and I think she will. White Noise 2 and The Last Sentinel weren't exactly great choices on her part, but I guess you sometimes take what you can to get your name out there. Once BSG is over, she'll be the newcomer from the show whose career I'll be most interested in following.

michaeltscott

05-15-07, 08:05 PM

Speaking of BSG newcomers, Tahmoh Penikett (Helo) was in a couple of episodes of Smallville recently. He played a "Universal Soldier/Robo-Cop" like character named Wes Keenan who has been revived from near-death and augmented with multiple Kryptonite powers and a re-programmed mind by a Lex Luthor project to build an army of super-soldiers.

HDNair

05-15-07, 11:08 PM

"Heroes" is Sci-Fi and I eat it up each week, but I have no idea about the ratings or whether we can look forward to a second season, and from the looks of it, they've written this first season such that it can be a tidy wrap-up if they didn't get renewed.

Heroes will be back for a second season and by in large it's been considered a big success for NBC, so if Heroes would be firmly classified as Sci-Fi, it's got to be considered a Sci-Fi hit. Granted, we'll have to see how it does during season 2. The ratings did drop off a bit after a layoff, but that's been the case with every show with a lay off this year. Now apparently the solution is to avoid the layoff. Lost will run 16 episodes straight per season for the next three years, while NBCs solution is to have 24 episodes for season 2 and 6 episodes of a spin-off/miniseries type thing during the layoff.

At any rate, Heroes will likely spawn a few sci-fi shows on different networks, one of which is Bionic Woman.

archiguy

05-16-07, 01:59 PM

Heroes will be back for a second season and by in large it's been considered a big success for NBC, so if Heroes would be firmly classified as Sci-Fi, it's got to be considered a Sci-Fi hit. Granted, we'll have to see how it does during season 2. The ratings did drop off a bit after a layoff, but that's been the case with every show with a lay off this year. Now apparently the solution is to avoid the layoff. Lost will run 16 episodes straight per season for the next three years, while NBCs solution is to have 24 episodes for season 2 and 6 episodes of a spin-off/miniseries type thing during the layoff.

At any rate, Heroes will likely spawn a few sci-fi shows on different networks, one of which is Bionic Woman.

'Heroes' can't really be considered sci-fi in the classic definition of the term. It's a fantasy show.

Palladin

05-16-07, 02:26 PM

'Heroes' can't really be considered sci-fi in the classic definition of the term. It's a fantasy show.
Well, to be fair, the majority of science fiction shows past and present, would have difficulty fitting into that classic definition. OTOH, I'll give Heroes props for being better paced and more fun than most of the "traditional SF" fare, and if it keeps up, we may have to consider formulating a new bastardized sub-genre - "science fantasy". ;)

____________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

help-r-monkey

05-16-07, 03:49 PM

I think NBC would perfer if we called "Heroes" a drama with a sci-fi twist, since Sci-fi doesn't go mainstream very well. Which goes full circle to BSG which I think is in a similar baot however gets negative points because of the name.

help-r-monkey

05-16-07, 03:50 PM

Heck my best friend still won't watch it because he didn't like TOS or BSG 1980.

biggiE48

05-16-07, 04:11 PM

Heck my best friend still won't watch it because he didn't like TOS or BSG 1980.
I saw the clips of the show and really it seem good. However I had to really look hard to see Katee Sackhoff. Great action in her scene and very well done. Here a link for those who have not seen it.

http://tempo.typepad.com/entertainment_tv/

michaeltscott

05-16-07, 05:03 PM

You can see the clips at NBC's site here (http://www.nbc.com/Fall_Preview/Bionic_Woman/).

HDNair

05-16-07, 11:01 PM

'Heroes' can't really be considered sci-fi in the classic definition of the term. It's a fantasy show.

True, but going back to the post I responded to, you could say the same thing about Lost. It appears to have a Sci-Fi under current, but given how vague everything has been so far as far as what is going on in the series, it could veer into the supernatural/fantasy realm as well. The topic was really about the marketing of "sci-fi" on television, and there does seem to be a place for these sci-fi fantasy fusion type shows to become commercially successful. Harder sci-fi that cannot be slipped into another genre, like BSG, would have a harder time.

Truth be told, BSG could be accurately be called an edgy drama set in space. But the space setting just about makes all the great drama and acting in the series irrelevant for most viewers, and therefore the networks... Any sci-fi themed show set on Earth would not have such difficulty I'd think.

archiguy

05-17-07, 07:58 AM

Truth be told, BSG could be accurately be called an edgy drama set in space. But the space setting just about makes all the great drama and acting in the series irrelevant for most viewers, and therefore the networks... Any sci-fi themed show set on Earth would not have such difficulty I'd think.

I agree. Outside of the brief run of 'Star Trek' back in the 60's, and the campfests that were the original BSG and 'Lost in Space', there have been no "traditional" sci-fi programs on Big 4 network TV that I can think of. 'Firefly' was, like BSG, a hybrid of sorts, where the sci-fi elements are simply a backdrop for the dramatic themes of the show. And we saw how long that lasted on FOX. I think NBC might have been willing to see if the critically acclaimed BSG would translate over onto their network by airing the miniseries on the flagship network on a Saturday night a couple of years ago. Nobody watched, and so the experiment was put off for another generation.

Someday, somebody is going to try a "traditional" sci-fi show on one of the Big 4 networks again. We just may not see it in our lifetimes. :( I have theories about it: namely that the audience just isn't sophisticated enough to appreciate or comprehend good sci-fi, and they don't like to be reminded, via allegory, that there are elements of our society that are unjust, ugly or just plain wrong from a moral or ethical standpoint. Americans don't like to be reminded of those things these days, and there's a faction that resists it vehemently.

DarthJedi

05-17-07, 08:43 AM

I think NBC might have been willing to see if the critically acclaimed BSG would translate over onto their network by airing the miniseries on the flagship network on a Saturday night a couple of years ago. Nobody watched, and so the experiment was put off for another generation.

See the problem of NBC was that they did absolutely zero promotion of BSG before they put the mini on that Saturday a few years ago. So it would not surprise me that no one watched. Now I listen to Howard Stern every morning and some one put him on to BSG and He said; and I quote "This is the best show on TV". Now this guy did not know this show was even on. I bet if NBC promoted this show like it does Heroes ( I'M sorry; I mean the X-men meet the 4400) BSG would be one of the highest rated shows on TV.

DarthJedi

05-17-07, 08:57 AM

I saw the clips of the show and really it seem good. However I had to really look hard to see Katee Sackhoff. Great action in her scene and very well done. Here a link for those who have not seen it.

http://tempo.typepad.com/entertainment_tv/Is she permanently on the Bionic Woman and off BSG?

archiguy

05-17-07, 09:45 AM

Is she permanently on the Bionic Woman and off BSG?

Her role on Bionic Woman was supposed to be very minimal. But, after seeing how our gal Katee dominated every scene she was in, they wanted more of her and expanded her role. But both shows are from the same production company and they both film in Vancouver, so it looks like she'll be doing double duty for awhile.

WilliamR

05-17-07, 11:19 AM

Is she permanently on the Bionic Woman and off BSG?

A news article I just read said she will be on both and she doesn't see a problem being able to balance both.

michaeltscott

05-17-07, 12:51 PM

I'm not particularly enamored of Sackhoff. She's a decent young actress and perfectly cast as the strangely-emotionally-fragile-semi-psychotic-super-bitch-brat that is Starbuck. It looks like her role as "the first bionic woman" is another psychotic bitch (with no emotional fragility indicated in the little we see of her in the trailers), which seems to suit her. Michelle Ryan seems like an okay choice for Jamie Somers, if the character's intended to be a lot closer to the original, who was a fairly staid, responsible, emotionally stable type. I'm not sure that Sackhoff could carry that off--she's just got this intrinsically unpredictable look about her which comes off in every picture and clip that I've seen of her, on and off the set.

Bear5k

05-17-07, 02:47 PM

A news article I just read said she will be on both and she doesn't see a problem being able to balance both.
Why should there be a problem? She's essentially playing a Cylon in both... ;)

JeffAHayes

05-17-07, 06:11 PM

"Someday, somebody is going to try a "traditional" sci-fi show on one of the Big 4 networks again. We just may not see it in our lifetimes. I have theories about it: namely that the audience just isn't sophisticated enough to appreciate or comprehend good sci-fi, and they don't like to be reminded, via allegory, that there are elements of our society that are unjust, ugly or just plain wrong from a moral or ethical standpoint. Americans don't like to be reminded of those things these days, and there's a faction that resists it vehemently."

An interesting thing happens when I get an email that there's been a new response to a thread I'm following... Of course, as I'm sure with all of you, I get just the FIRST new response, which in this case was the one by ArchiGuy... The "interesting thing," however, is that sometimes the entire text isn't included. In the case of ArchiGuy's response, the most interesting thing to me was that the period in his last sentence ended after "days," with "and there's a faction that resists it vehemently" left completely out.

Perhaps he came back and added that later, or something, but I just found that odd. After the prior postings about "Bionic Woman," I went to the NBC Bionic Woman page and did my BEST to get one of their trailers to play and it JUST WOULDN'T PLAY... not sure if they're just not compatible with Vista yet, or what... I DID just go to the newer link for the Chicago Tribune, above, and get a couple of those links to play. I must say the one with Katee in it was so dark if you didn't know she was in it, well, you'd hardly know, lol.

Also, on the NBC webpage, she wasn't even listed as a cast member, so she must be sort of "supporting cast."

I watched the "finale" of "Crossing Jordan" last night, and it looked to me like it was shot as a potential SEASON or SERIES finale... Interestingly, NBC DID NOT bill it in their promo as a SERIES FINALE, even though I've read press several places that the show IS canceled... Miguel Ferrer's character was suffering from internal bleeding at the end of the show, too. I'm guessing that although they're saying it's canceled, there's still a CHANCE they may bring it back if there's enough support for it, possibly WITHOUT Miguel, having him DIE from his wounds, because, again, they called it a SEASON FINALE.

I saw from that link that Jericho is gone... Well, there goes another Gerald McRaney show... He dies, and the show goes right after him, lol... And THAT was one I didn't have to "time-shift" to watch, too, lol... Oh well, I guess they just BLEW IT UP! :eek:

petergaryr

05-17-07, 06:30 PM

Peter, have you actually watched all the trailers for this at NBC.Com yet ?

I'm always willing to give science fiction the benefit of the doubt, but this one smells like something you step in.

Yes, its possible that the writing might improve, because anything is possible.

But ultimately, I think its the lead who's going to sink it. That's why I'd say give it to Katee, and hire a script doctor.

________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

I did check out the vids on the NBC site and though they didn't at first look promising, I caught the scenes with Katee.

If the stories that are circulating are true, that she was designed as a one episode guest star, but then the producers saw how she can command a screen and extended her stay, I can see why.

petergaryr

05-17-07, 07:24 PM

I agree. Outside of the brief run of 'Star Trek' back in the 60's, and the campfests that were the original BSG and 'Lost in Space', there have been no "traditional" sci-fi programs on Big 4 network TV that I can think of....

I tried to think of one as well, and the only one that came to mind was Quantum Leap. Though it didn't last long, I thought Invasion could fall into that category (though I'm still not sure what the "squiddies" were).

michaeltscott

05-17-07, 10:05 PM

I tried to think of one as well, and the only one that came to mind was Quantum Leap. Though it didn't last long, I thought Invasion could fall into that category (though I'm still not sure what the "squiddies" were).I ask this as someone who has been a staunch fan of sci-fi for 40 years (since I read Heinlein's series of youth oriented novels at the age of 9, starting with Have Spacesuit, Will Travel): how are you defining Science Fiction such that ST:TOS qualifies and none of the other ST series do?

JeffAHayes

05-17-07, 11:33 PM

Mike, I think the reason they're not counting any of the other Star Trek series is that they were syndicated (except that Enterprise WAS a network show for UPN, I THINK)... That's the ONLY REASON I hadn't already made the same objection you just did.

Someone just made a very disparaging remark about "Heroes," too, but whether you like it, or not, there's no denying it DEFINITELY falls into the Sci-Fi category, and it's the ONLY show on NBC this year so successful that they're actually EXPANDING its number of episodes AND having a sort of mini-spinoff for next season...

And of course there's "Lost." I think a lot of folks aren't sure JUST HOW to categorize that... Is it Sci-Fi, or is it pseudo-spiritual? I think it's a sort of amalgam, but it DEFINITELY falls into the Sci-Fi category, overall, with much of what goes on there... with the sorts of electronics that were being experimented with by "the Dharma Initiative," for instance, with the "sonic gate." These are things that so far as I know DO NOT EXIST, yet are "science-based." Doesn't that make them science fiction? "Lost" seems to have some sort of "stigma" attached to it by all but die-hard fans (like me). Perhaps I'm too forgiving, or patient.

So currently, NBC has a VERY successful one-hour Sci-Fi show; ABC has what WAS a very successful Sci-Fi show that's still guaranteed another 3 seasons, regardless of vacillating ratings... and CBS... Well, they have 3 CSIs, and sometimes THOSE look like science fiction, lol (can y'all BELIEVE CSI-Miami has been claiming TOP-RATED show on TV lately?!?)

I'm just glad in 2007 we have SO MANY CHANNELS and SO MANY CHOICES... We're so far past having to choose between just the three big dummies... We have two other broadcast networks, plus several good cable channels (SciFi, FX, USA, to name three, producing excellent programming -- who here watches every episode of "The Dead Zone" and "The 4400," also?)... Plus LOTS of re-run choices on many other cable channels... and pay cable like HBO...

And then some of us still complain there'll be a 9-month wait until the next season of BSG -- GEESH! ("Lost" is taking almost that long of a break, too!) Just remember back how it was 30 years ago and STOP YOUR GROUSING, lol!
Jeff

michaeltscott

05-18-07, 01:21 AM

Someone just made a very disparaging remark about "Heroes," too, but whether you like it, or not, there's no denying it DEFINITELY falls into the Sci-Fi category, and it's the ONLY show on NBC this year so successful that they're actually EXPANDING its number of episodes AND having a sort of mini-spinoff for next season...There are many sub-genres of Science Fiction, and I agree that Heroes lands in the broad group called "Science Fantasy". It's fanciful. Pure science-fiction takes takes science theory and speculates as to its near- or far-term effect on mankind. "Science thinks" is a primary element. "Science thinks that we'll develop space flight and establish colonies on other worlds in the solar system. What will life in those colonies be like? What sort of novel problems will they face and how will they handle them? Here's a fictional story which explores a little of that..." As far as I know, there are no scientist thinking that people will wildly mutate to have fanciful capacilities which defy basic laws of physics and all common sense. Fun, but not really based on plausible science.

I see nothing insulting in the "Science Fantasy" label. It's all quality entertainment.
And of course there's "Lost." I think a lot of folks aren't sure JUST HOW to categorize that... Is it Sci-Fi, or is it pseudo-spiritual? I think it's a sort of amalgam, but it DEFINITELY falls into the Sci-Fi category, overall, with much of what goes on there... with the sorts of electronics that were being experimented with by "the Dharma Initiative," for instance, with the "sonic gate." These are things that so far as I know DO NOT EXIST, yet are "science-based." Doesn't that make them science fiction? "Lost" seems to have some sort of "stigma" attached to it by all but die-hard fans (like me). Perhaps I'm too forgiving, or patient.Unlike Heroes, I don't think that Lost get's too awfully farfetched. Everything that seemed spooky and mysterious comes down to some reasonably plausible explanation in the end (so far :)).
Well, they have 3 CSIs, and sometimes THOSE look like science fiction, lol (can y'all BELIEVE CSI-Miami has been claiming TOP-RATED show on TV lately?!?)Aside from the bizarre phenomena which is American Idol and lately ABC's Dancing With the Stars, the original CSI: Crime Scene Investigation has been the very top rated series on network television for its entire seven season run. CSI: Miami always falls into the top 10. Season-to-date, they are the 6th and 9th most popular programs, with 14.0 and 12.3 million person audiences, respectively (CSI: NY is 17th, with an audience of 10.2 million); the top 5 most watched shows are the 2 weekly episodes of American Idol (19.4 million viewers each) and 3 weekly episodes of Dancing with the Stars (15.0, 14.3 and 14.1 million viewers, Tuesday, Monday and Wednesday).

I'd never call CSI "science fiction", since it's never speculative. It dramatizes certain elements of the forensic work--many procedures take much longer to get results for in reality (DNA analysis, finger-print database searches, etc); they get speeded up for dramatic effect. The freakiest elements of their cases actually exist in nature.

What should we remember about 30 years ago? Are you referring to the fact that shows like Lost in Space and Star Trek ran 30 episode seasons, eight weeks more of fresh weekly episodes than we get from the average show now? (I guess that's more like 40 years ago).

petergaryr

05-18-07, 06:35 AM

archiguy

05-18-07, 08:08 AM

There are many sub-genres of Science Fiction, and I agree that Heroes lands in the broad group called "Science Fantasy". It's fanciful. Pure science-fiction takes takes science theory and speculates as to its near- or far-term effect on mankind. "Science thinks" is a primary element. "Science thinks that we'll develop space flight and establish colonies on other worlds in the solar system. What will life in those colonies be like? What sort of novel problems will they face and how will they handle them? Here's a fictional story which explores a little of that..." As far as I know, there are no scientist thinking that people will wildly mutate to have fanciful capacilities which defy basic laws of physics and all common sense. Fun, but not really based on plausible science.

I see nothing insulting in the "Science Fantasy" label. It's all quality entertainment.

That's very well put. Good job. :)

Unlike Heroes, I don't think that Lost get's too awfully farfetched. Everything that seemed spooky and mysterious comes down to some reasonably plausible explanation in the end (so far :)).

That's right from the producer's mouths, actually. They promise if not a realistically scientific, at least a pseudo-scientific explanation for the Islands many mysteries. My guess is that it's going to involve multiple dimensions of space/time created (or pried open) by the Island's powerful electromagnetic field. Since multi-dimensional theory is primarily speculation right now, it would certainly qualify.

....... the top 5 most watched shows are the 2 weekly episodes of American Idol (19.4 million viewers each) and 3 weekly episodes of Dancing with the Stars (15.0, 14.3 and 14.1 million viewers, Tuesday, Monday and Wednesday).

Well, 'DWTS' actually only has 2 "new" weekly episodes (unless you count it's "replay" episode) but point taken. It's still astonishing. And well produced, entertaining (and expensive) serial dramas just can't find an audience. I'm lamenting the recent cancellations of FOX's 'Drive', which I thought had potential (and Nathan Fillion!), and one of my favorites, 'Jericho' which was improving right up until the end, among many others. The American public's insatiable appetite for the lowest common denominator programming is sad and disappointing. But, reflective of our times I suppose.

rezzy

05-19-07, 01:16 AM

Correct. The original comment related to science fiction shows on the "big four".

I know ST: Voyager was on UPN, but for some reason I can't remember where ST: Deep Space 9 was originally aired.Excepting Voyager and Enterprise, the newer Treks were all syndicated. I think.

help-r-monkey

05-23-07, 04:32 PM

WOW, I saw the last BSG on UHD a couple days ago. That was one of the best HD episodes of season three. the storm was fantastic.

loco

05-31-07, 09:30 PM

FYI - The news that Season Four will be the last is now official.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3i157e88908d7e00620d293654df889417

Next 'Battlestar' season will be the series' last
By Nellie Andreeva

June 1, 2007

The upcoming fourth season of Sci Fi Channel's "Battlestar Galactica" will be its final one after all.

After months of speculation, the show's producers will make the announcement at a press conference Friday.

Ending "Battlestar" with the upcoming 22-episode fourth season was a creative decision made by the show's executive producers Ronald Moore and David Eick.

"This show was always meant to have a beginning, a middle and finally, an end," Eick and Moore said in a statement Thursday. "Over the course of the last year, the story and the characters have been moving strongly toward that end and we've decided to listen to those internal voices and conclude the show on our own terms. And while we know our fans will be saddened to know the end is coming, they should brace themselves for a wild ride getting there - we're going out with a bang."

The fourth and final season of "Galactica" will kick off in November with "Razor," an extended two-hour episode, with the rest of the season slated to run beginning in early 2008.

Sci Fi's executive vp original programming Mark Stern said the channel's brass "respect the producers' decision to end the series."

"We are proud to have been the home of this groundbreaking show," he said. "We have always known that Ron and David had a plan for 'Galactica' and trust that fans can look forward to a truly amazing final season."

For months, Sci Fi had dispelled rumors about "Battlestar" ending its run after the fourth season.

A couple of weeks ago, the show's star Edward James Olmos was quoted saying that the upcoming batch of episodes were definitely the last ones. (HR 5/14) Sci Fi issued a statement denying such a decision had been made. "I promise you that when Ron and I make a decision about 'Galactica's' future, we'll let you know," Eick said at the time.

"Battlestar," which stars Olmos, Katee Sackhoff, Mary McDonnell and Jamie Bamber, is produced by NBC Universal TV Studio.

JeffAHayes

05-31-07, 10:16 PM

So it appears they've decided to UP the final season episode count from 13 to 22???

Well, that suits me, as I didn't think they could do it justice in 13 episodes (even if they're counting the movies as part of the 22 episodes).

With 22 more episodes and "a plan," a DEFINITE PLAN, I think they CAN pull it off. I'm happy, so long as we know what to expect. I much prefer having a definite series finale planned to them being in the sort of position they were this season, where they weren't certain if they were going to get renewed, so they hedged their bets mid-season, waiting for the word.

As for the "Science Fantasy" label vs. the "Science Fiction" label, I have no issue with that... I just wasn't really familiar with the label... more familiar with the fantasy-adventure label.

I'm happy to agree "Heroes" falls into a "Science Fantasy" label rather than "Science Fiction," as I heartily agree there isn't much in the way of "true science" to it. (But wouldn't that invisibility power be COOL??? :p )
Jeff

archiguy

06-01-07, 09:46 AM

The announcement of the final season is classic good-news, bad-news. Bad that it's ending, but good that we get a "super-sized" season of 22 episodes and closure to the story. The ratings have always been unfortunate and confounding. Literally everyone I've turned on to the show has become a big fan, but there were just not enough of us. If there had been an Emmy nomination (a win has always been too much to hope for) to go along with the Peabody Award, that would have lifted ratings to a more acceptable level. If the show doesn't get one this year, after this amazing season, then it's more evidence that the Emmy voters simply have no idea what they're supposed to be doing, which is to vote for the very best programming on TV. BSG certainly qualifies.

replayrob

06-01-07, 01:49 PM

help-r-monkey

06-01-07, 04:53 PM

Well since this has happened before arent the terrans also colonials?

help-r-monkey

06-01-07, 04:55 PM

I hope they take the end a step further,and close the circle When they find earth, they should explain the the cycle of exodus.

Ericglo

06-01-07, 05:27 PM

I think it will be good in that they can now write for a finale and not just drift along. I thought this last half season that there was some uneveness. Now, hopefully give the writing a clarity of purpose.

On another note, my friend just completed his short for the video toolmaker contest. It is called We were Centurions (http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/videomaker/). You can also download it here (http://www.mediumedge.com/). Check it out and see if you like it.

lax01

06-01-07, 05:27 PM

4 seasons is perfect...the show was already starting to slow down and momentum couldn't quite be built perfectly like the first two seasons. I see this as good instead of bad and cannot fracking wait till November!

Palladin

06-01-07, 05:39 PM

Well since this has happened before arent the terrans also colonials?
I remember some spirited debate on this near the end of this past season. It's really the old chicken and the egg scenario. I've always believed that the colonists and terrans are the same race. The question is really who made it to the other side first (achieved space travel of this magnitude)? But if, in fact, they are the same race, what difference does it actually make in the big picture anyway?

Personally, until we see where season 4 is going, its my position that the greatest achievement the colonists have provided us with is the substitute 'frak' which is a perfectly acceptable substitute on this forum, as well as in mixed company. ;)

_______________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared min

HDNair

06-01-07, 05:58 PM

I agree with the "good news" take. Four seasons is a good amount of time for the show to run. Credit Sci-Fi for sticking with the show despite it's large budget and low ratings. You don't want a series like this to go on forever and get stale. With the knowledge that the 4th season will be the last and they have to build towards the finale, I trust Moore and Eick to deliver a worthy season to close out the series on their own terms.

Bear5k

06-01-07, 05:59 PM

On another note, my friend just completed his short for the video toolmaker contest. It is called We were Centurions (http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/videomaker/). You can also download it here (http://www.mediumedge.com/). Check it out and see if you like it.
Well done!! :)

(Too bad they require IE, though)

michaeltscott

06-01-07, 07:12 PM

Personally, until we see where season 4 is going, its my position that the greatest achievement the colonists have provided us with is the substitute 'frak' which is a perfectly acceptable substitute on this forum, as well as in mixed company. ;)Moore took that straight from the original series, though I'm fairly certain that they didn't use it nearly as much.

CANNON-FODDER

06-01-07, 09:34 PM

(Too bad they require IE, though)I viewed them with Firefox (XP Home), but I could not close the tab and had to "End Program"...

v/r,
C-F

Ericglo

06-01-07, 10:13 PM

I had no problem with firefox.

JeffAHayes

06-01-07, 10:46 PM

LMAO!!! :D All I have to say about "We Were Centurions" is RIGHTEOUS, DUDE!!!

As for getting an Emmy Nomination... wouldn't THAT be nice?!?

JUST the nomination!

As for actually WINNING, I agree, that's just too much to ask for... Who remembers two years ago when Glenn Close was nominated for her one-season role as the precinct captain on "The Shield?" ALL the critics said she was A LOCK to win the emmy, yet Patricia Arquette won for just a half season of "Medium."

Now don't get me wrong. I like that show. In fact I time-shift it every week so I can watch it after "Lost" is over... But I also watch "The Shield," and there's NO WAY Glenn Close didn't deserve that Emmy, just like the critics said... POLITICS, PERIOD. The Arquettes are part of a big, happy Hollywood "family." Of course there ARE exceptions. I mean Michael Chiklis DID win for his first season as Vic Mackey.

So who knows WHAT'S gonna happen with the Emmys???

I don't guess it matters much at this point, anyway, because it won't influence the show or the length of its run, and I'm ready to settle in for the rest of the ride.
Jeff

archiguy

06-02-07, 08:57 AM

I don't guess it matters much at this point, anyway, because it won't influence the show or the length of its run, and I'm ready to settle in for the rest of the ride.
Jeff

If, for some unexplainable reason, the ratings were to, say, double or triple next year, something tells me that they'd suddenly find a way to produce a fifth season. ;)

I've never understood the low ratings for this show, with all the buzz it gets. Sometimes it seemed like every single person who was watching the show was posting here. Something always seemed fishy about those damn Nielsens.

loco

06-02-07, 09:15 AM

I agree archiguy. I think the Nielsens are obsolete these days. There are too many other ways to watch a show than just sitting down in front of the TV and watching it live. You have DVR, DVD, UniversalHD, iTunes, illegal means of downloading, etc. I actually personally know more people who watch BSG than Lost, but do the ratings reflect that? No. I don't actually believe more people watch it, maybe I just have weird friends. :) But I do think more than 1.5 million people are fans of BSG.

aaronwt

06-02-07, 09:50 AM

If, for some unexplainable reason, the ratings were to, say, double or triple next year, something tells me that they'd suddenly find a way to produce a fifth season. ;)

I've never understood the low ratings for this show, with all the buzz it gets. Sometimes it seemed like every single person who was watching the show was posting here. Something always seemed fishy about those damn Nielsens.

BSG is one of the shows where many people use a DVR to record it and watch it later. SO those people don't get counted in the ratings. If they did their ratings would be much higher. I read where Nielson is supposed to change the way those people are tabulated and start using a 3 day rule. If people watch the show within the first 3 days of it's initial airing they will be counted in the rating s for that show. I don't know if or when that will take affect though.

lax01

06-02-07, 12:24 PM

LMAO!!! :D All I have to say about "We Were Centurions" is RIGHTEOUS, DUDE!!!

ROFLMAO THIS ONE IS BETTER:

http://video.scifi.com/player/?id=114258

Hilarious...

CANNON-FODDER

06-02-07, 12:39 PM

BSG is one of the shows where many people use a DVR to record it and watch it later. SO those people don't get counted in the ratings. If they did their ratings would be much higher. I read where Nielson is supposed to change the way those people are tabulated and start using a 3 day rule. If people watch the show within the first 3 days of it's initial airing they will be counted in the rating s for that show. I don't know if or when that will take affect[sic] though.But as mentioned elsewhere in one of these Nielson discussions, DVR viewers generally do not watch commercials -- so why would they be counted at all?

I could see a popularity poll for a series on a pay channel, but on a [mostly] advertisement funded channel, it would seem [to me] that DVR viewers [Potential ad-skippers] do not count toward viewing the advertisement.

Now, a counter-argument may be that DVR viewers are not watching a competitor's channel [or advertisements shown there-upon] for the amount of time he spends to watch the recording. But that begs the question of did the show get recorded because the viewer was watching the competitor? Potentially in real-time and experiencing those advertisements?...

Back on BSG, If, for some unexplainable reason, the ratings were to, say, double or triple next year, something tells me that they'd suddenly find a way to produce a fifth season.;)Would not that be the very definition of the Primrose Path [the producers] are attempting to avoid?

Assuming there is a definitive end-game to the story... I would like to see both quality and quantity, but if something like that happens, I think I would rather have either: A branch plan, where they carefully construct/outline the "tweener" episodes during the writing of the programmed 22. Or at least the latter half of them as half would be aired before the ratings could influence anything... A "spin-off" or some other re-working so the main story and characters do not get diluted or warped, and we do not get brief deviations from the path every other episode. Swallow the whole pill at once and jump focus to the new characters and their story-line, the current characters can still be around for context.

v/r,
C-F

JeffAHayes

06-02-07, 10:35 PM

I haven't had a "serious" discussion of the Nielsens or any other mass sampling systems since I took statistics in grad school (and that was just a beginners' class), but from what I remember of that, and from what I know of the Nielsens, they monitor only something on the order of 1,200 households.

"Statistically speaking," since the they very carefully randomize the households, the sample should be accurate to within +/- 3% 95% of the time according to standard statistical models, based on what I learned in that class... BUT, this model was developed WHEN there were primarily THREE CHOICES. With literally HUNDREDS of choices nowadays and at least a couple dozen MAJOR choices (five networks, plus HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, Starz, Encore, The Movie Channel, FX, USA, SciFi, A&E, Animal Planet, Travel Channel, Discovery, Discovery HD, Universal HD, TNT, Bravo, Lifetime...), there's absolutely NO WAY a sample THAT SMALL can show significant differences in viewing habits -- PARTICULARLY with people like me (and many of you) recording shows for time shifting... But as the "networks" have no other means of determining ratings, they're still using Nielsen as their guide.

For the purposes of more accurate ratings, I, personally, have no issue with interactive cable and satellite boxes being used (anonymously) to determine on a MUCH LARGER SCALE what people are watching -- at least what people who have such boxes are watching. That may still not be a true rating, since it would skew ratings towards people who view through cable or satellite boxes, but if that could somehow be averaged with the other means, I'm sure it would be more accurate than what they currently have.

As for the scenario of what a tripling of ratings might do to the next being a "final" season, I agree the network would likely try to renew the show. I would hope the producers would refuse, and do something different, such as a spinoff, however.

I never, for one moment, forget that SciFi is actually one small part of a much bigger machine that is NBC-Universal, so there are all kinds of possibilities beyond just the Sci-Fi channel, and there's also all kinds of pressure that could be applied to Moore, et al, if the ratings zoomed... but then those other possiblities might make things easier in that case, as well,
Jeff

rezzy

06-02-07, 10:52 PM

I would hope the producers would refuse, and do something different, such as a spinoff, however.Or a major motion picture.

JeffAHayes

06-03-07, 12:31 AM

michaeltscott

06-03-07, 02:27 AM

Well "a major motion picture" was one of the "other possibilities" I was considering, although I'm not sure how valid a concept that might be. I think the "Firefly" movie they made after the really mediocre series got canceled after only a few episodes was better than the series and really told the story a lot better (they were taking a "long-arc" point of view to tell the whole story on the series, but ran out of time before they got to tell it, and were really WAY TOO "wild west" with the early episodes, anyway -- same thing happened with Threshold and Jericho, even though it made it through an entire season).

My point is that although "Firefly" was better than the TV show, if I remember correctly the movie LOST MONEY at the box office, and a movie of BSG, done correctly, would likely cost close to $100 million, maybe more, which is a BIG GAMBLE for a relatively unknown quantity that had a small, loyal cable following... So would Universal fund such a venture? Who knows?
JeffI initially thought that Firefly was mediocre as well, but after seeing the movie (which is one of the very few movies that I've ever been able to watch multiple times in a year--in a weekend, for that matter :)) I went back and watched the entire series and truthfully it was very good. They made 15 episodes,, three of which did not air before cancellation, though since the movie's run the Sci Fi Channel has aired all of them a few times over. The last two to air during the series' run (episodes 11 and 12), entitled "Serenity" parts 1 and 2 contained some elements of the movie (Simon's rescue of River, w/o all the origin-of-the-Reavers stuff, though there were Reavers involved). Whedon intended for those episodes to be the pilot, but the network changed the order in which all of the episodes were aired (I'm not sure what order they were shot in). The two-part "Serenity" episode certainly didn't make any sense being aired last, since all of the characters congeal into an ensemble during it. Such network "creative decisions" may have contributed to the series' failure.

The movie was better than any episode of the series, but it had a much higher budget and no doubt much more time per hour was spent shooting and editing it than any hour of the series. I've watched all of the episodes a few times and I never caught any hint that he was headed toward the story in the movie, though it wouldn't have been out of place. There was no real story arc to the series--mostly just disjoint misadventures, occasionally reconnecting with characters encountered in previous episodes (like Niska and Saffron).

FreeBaGeL

06-03-07, 02:51 AM

Did someone just call Firefly mediocre?

Heresy.

JeffAHayes

06-03-07, 03:33 AM

I thought some of the episodes that aired early in the series were "mediocre." As for the entire series, I thought it was showing great promise just as the "Cretin Broadcasting Network" decided to cancel it.

Also, if it IS the network that decides to run episodes out of order, rather than the series' creative team, I think that REALLY SUCKS and really SHOULDN'T be allowed because I agree it can, and probably DOES cause some series to fail -- PARTICULARLY Sci-Fi shows like "Firefly," and possibly "Threshold," as well, which REALLY seemed to have several nonsequiters in its episode run.
Jeff

rezzy

06-03-07, 09:22 AM

I watched a few eps when it originally aired on FOX(?). It didn't grab me, so I tuned out. Maybe I bailed too soon.

loco

06-03-07, 09:29 AM

Interesting. I really wasn't crazy about Serenity (the movie) and thought the TV series was much much better. Firefly was great, something I enjoyed immensely, but the River-has-superpowers subplot never really resonated with me. So, seeing more of that in the movie really turned me off. Plus, my favorite character was Wash. I did like the movie, but ultimately found it disappointing when compared with the superbness of the series.

As for BSG, it may be difficult to get this large cast back together again. Although the way they all talk about each other and how much they love the show, I guess they'd make time for a feature film or DVD movie. The producers seem to indicate that they will bring the show to a close with a definitive "ending." So, I would guess any future projects would involve standalone stories, possibly flashbacks filling in events that weren't shown in the show. Truthfully and sadly, I think once the series ends, this BSG project will be finished for good. It hurts me to say that, so I hope I'm wrong!

archiguy

06-08-07, 06:02 PM

A couple of the AICN writers were at the big 'Galactica' promo-event in Hollywood on Wednesday and have a pretty comprehensive report. Very interesting stuff! Find it here. (http://www.aintitcool.com/node/32918) And loco, sorry, 22 more hours and that's an official wrap to the best frakkin' show on TV. :(

loco

06-08-07, 08:14 PM

That's a great link, archiguy! Yeah, I was afraid of that - they sure do make it sound final.

rezzy

06-08-07, 08:52 PM

Find it here. (http://www.aintitcool.com/node/32918)
Man, after reading that giant text, I almost have to squint back over here on AVS....:eek:

Palladin

06-08-07, 09:45 PM

I watched a few eps when it originally aired on FOX(?). It didn't grab me, so I tuned out. Maybe I bailed too soon.
Not necessarily. I watched a few on Fox and caught the rest on DVD. I found it real hit-and-miss myself. I liked most of the actors, but I'm not one of those who feel that Josh Whedon is some kind of deity, or that the stories were as tight as they could have been. The eps that stand out in my mind were the town where Jane was worshipped as a hero, the ones with Nathan Fillion's 'wife', and the last ep which seemed like a springboard for the film.

A couple of the AICN writers were at the big 'Galactica' promo-event in Hollywood on Wednesday and have a pretty comprehensive report. Very interesting stuff! Find it here. (http://www.aintitcool.com/node/32918) And loco, sorry, 22 more hours and that's an official wrap to the best frakkin' show on TV. :(
Nice link, Arch. A little more fluff than I'd expect considering how seriously this show took its issues, but the casual tone makes one almost feel like they were in the audience. I agree with Olmos. Someday, years from now, people are going to look back (the ones who weren't into this series) with regret about how a SciFi theme led them to miss this extraordinary drama.

_______________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

JeffAHayes

06-08-07, 11:21 PM

Yeah... kinda nice NOT to have to squint, for a change, lol...

Took me all night to read that (during commercial breaks on the Sci-Fi channel, lol, and in the 17 minutes since "Painkiller Jane" ended), but it was worth it.

I SWEAR I don't remember Katee Sachoff wearing pasties, though, lol, but I can't wait for the love scene between her and Six, or the three-way with her, Sharon and Six (of course those will be available ONLY on the pay-per-view episodes, I understand).

[ducking] :eek:
Jeff

help-r-monkey

06-12-07, 09:29 AM

archiguy

06-12-07, 07:23 PM

I watched the last episodes on UHD last night and I will say they look great. something hit me the second time around I noticed HELO says something very similar to what Sharon said at the end of season 2, about dark times or a strom is coming. I wonder if this is an early peak of who HELO really is?

While I like the Helo character, I don't think he's important enough to end up being this 5th Cylon. That's going to be a big reveal, no doubt, the way they've been playing it up. They're probably going to be seeding a lot of red herrings about it, the finger pointing at first one character, then another. They'll be lots of theories. :)

prospect60

06-12-07, 08:46 PM

It would also alter the significance of Hera's parentage just a little if both parents are now Cylon. Of course Hera's special purpose is a bit shifted by Chief/Callie's child unless the 'Fundamentally different' Cylon idea means even more than it appears initially.

Of course fundamentally different could mean that those 4 who now 'know' they are Cylons turn out that they really aren't Cylons after all and it was all a post hypnotic suggestion left behind from the Occupation/Concentration camps to cast self doubt among several key members (Moore's could be getting a kick out of intentionally misleading everybody in the Podcasts). OK, it's not likely, but it's at least one answer to keep Hera as completely unique.

JeffAHayes

06-12-07, 09:08 PM

Not to stray too far off topic, as I don't know how many of you also watch "The Sopranos," but I MUST SAY that if Ron Moore comes EVEN CLOSE to ending BSG the way David Chase ended "The Sopranos" Sunday Night, I say we all make a pact that we hunt him down and TEAR HIM LIMB FROM LIMB! :mad: :eek: :cool:
Jeff

loco

06-12-07, 09:36 PM

Dear Jeff,

http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/

Love,
Ron

;)

JeffAHayes

06-12-07, 09:46 PM

Uh, loco, are you telling us you're REALLY RON MOORE?????

At any rate, he has a very valid point about David Chase and his guts (and it WAS enough to make the ABC World News Monday night, lol -- I have no idea about CBS or NBC, since I just watch Charlie's show)...

But now that's he's both ADDRESSED IT and said he wishes he'd thought of it first, he's as much as said he CAN'T DO IT (I hope), because I don't think my heart can take another ending like that, lol (especially after the ABSOLUTELY INFURIATING season ending of "Lost," lol).

So, I'm really pleased to finally make your acquaintance, Mr. Moore!

Oh, by the way, I STILL think Starbuck is that FIFTH Cylon... if you remember from the white-out figurines of the "final five," the hairline on the one on the right looked just like hers.

Just my thoughts,
Jeff

loco

06-12-07, 09:52 PM

LOL, no I'm not Ron Moore. But I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

JeffAHayes

06-12-07, 09:55 PM

Somehow I KNEW that was coming, "Ron."

Now ya gotta prove to me you're NOT Ron Moore :p :eek: :D

replayrob

06-13-07, 10:35 AM

Ok, here's the "David Chase" style ending to BSG......
(In the final scene of the last ever episode of BSG- we dissolve into the C.I.C. aboard the Galactica, with the usual crew compliment- Adama, Tigh, Pres Roslyn next to Adama, Lee, Starbuck, Helo & Sharon/Athena, etc...):
Adama: "Mr Gaeta, enter the final jump coordinates for Earth- start the clock"
Gaeta: "Coordinates entered, all systems go- jump clock started... 5... 4..... 3... 2... 1.... Jump!"
(We quick cut to an exterior shot of the fleet jumping away... finally the last ship jumps ... and the screen fades to black! forever...)
Ahhhhhhh- please no! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

loco

06-13-07, 01:18 PM

I guess someone's already tried to combine the Sopranos ending with BSG. Here's the Season Three finale, Sopranos style...

Strangely enough, the song kinda works.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Okkqp6CcM68

Palladin

06-13-07, 02:28 PM

I've been a little too busy to keep up with this thread and others over the past few days, so I'm playing catch-up ball at this point. The thing I really find amusing is how we are repeating most of the same discussions we have already had at the end of Season 3 (cable), and also re-repeating over at HDTV Programming forum where Season 3 has just wrapped up. Makes me feel like I'm in some kind of multiple timeline paradox. :rolleyes: And speaking of which....

While I like the Helo character, I don't think he's important enough to end up being this 5th Cylon.
Well since 2 of the other 4 weren't either, I don't find that theory all that compelling. Nevertheless, agree it will not be Helo, but rather one of the leads. Oh and it appears that many here weren't aware his real name was "Hero", but his wife botched up the pronunciation. ;)

I guess someone's already tried to combine the Sopranos ending with BSG. Here's the Season Three finale, Sopranos style...

Strangely enough, the song kinda works.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Okkqp6CcM68
I loved it. That would have been frakkin' perfect, if they ended it right at the point the ships fall into the 'jump'. Showing the earth and the Sun means they made it, and that would be giving away too much. It would be like a splash of red on the diner wall opposite Tony Soprano just before the black-out. It might be ketchup splashing around after being pounded out of the bottle onto the onion rings.....but it probably isn't it. ;)

__________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Palladin

06-13-07, 02:35 PM

Oops, almost forgot. For those not holding out for the HD disks, I was at a wholesale club warehouse this past weekend, and they are now packaging the BSG .O and .5 disks for the past seasons together for about 45.00.

____________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

MOREPOWER

06-17-07, 11:10 AM

I see the season four ending as good news, now at least the writers can really plan out the final episodes with great care. Too many good series have had hastily crafted finale's due to last minute/sudden cancellation notices- Star Trek Enterprise- in particular comes to mind.
My only hope is that if they do find earth, the producers don't do an "American Idol" where they find it in the last 30 seconds of the final episode and then it's over forever.
I'd love to see them find earth, then devote a full episode to colonial/terran interaction.22 Episodes? Just hope its not an opportunity for more filer.
I hope they spend more than one episode on Earth, maybe two or three, bring on the flying sport bikes. If they do just spend one episode on earth, then the 30 second ending will probably be it, Oh no its full of Borgs, or something like it.

JeffAHayes

06-17-07, 06:01 PM

All I have to say is... if they get to Earth and are greeted by "Admiral Janeway," I'll BLOW CHUNKS all over my TV screen! :p :eek: :D
Jeff

michaeltscott

07-09-07, 02:37 AM

I saw the 3 hour version of the introductory mini-series on Universal HD last night. The picture quality was excellent, which is a great relief after how cruddy the DVD turned out. I recall that I didn't like the mini-series much at all when it first aired; I found it to be really enjoyable now, particularly given how pretty it was.

I wish I'd had some way of making a permanent copy; hopefully it (and the rest of the series) will be out on HD DVD or Blu-ray.

FreeBaGeL

07-09-07, 02:48 AM

rakstr

07-09-07, 09:02 AM

I don't understand your complaint on the DVD quality. I've got the three released box sets, have watched them all on my 1080P 47" LCD via my Playstation 3 and they all look great.

michaeltscott

07-09-07, 09:46 AM

I'm not talking about the actual series season-sets, but the mini-series that first aired at the end of 2003, most of a year before the first season of the series ran. PQ of that DVD was just horrible. I took a quick look around for a review of the disc and IGN DVD (http://dvd.ign.com/articles/580/580938p1.html) had this to say:
The Video

Presented in 1.85:1 anamorphic widescreen, Battlestar Galactica: The Miniseries is a mixed bag. There's no better face for testing out the quality of a transfer than a close-up of Edward James Olmos's craggy face. He can make Danny Trejo look like Orlando Bloom. Well, whether it's Olmos's mug, the cramped command deck of the Galactica, the other actors or space effects shots, the transfer is pretty soft and lacking in very fine detail.

The picture quality varies widely, and I do mean widely. In some pictures, the picture quality is almost as good as a major studio release. In the next shot, the transfer is almost as bad as The Suicide Club. The grain is hideous and the backgrounds are full of mosquito noise.

Color levels and skin tones are pretty good, with black levels slightly crushed into murkiness. Dark scenes tend to be the grainiest, which doesn't help. But at least the transfer is free of aliasing and stair-stepping errors.

Score: 5 out of 10It's been a while since I tried to watch that disc, but I was left with an even less favorable impression. I've seen much sharper standard definition digital cable.

loco

07-09-07, 08:27 PM

And the disk dedicated to the miniseries is still better PQ than the one that comes with the Season One box set.

replayrob

07-10-07, 10:59 AM

In motion pictures as in still photography, as light levels decrease- grain and "noise" increase. The original 3-hr mini series was shot on 35mm film as opposed the Sci-Fi series which is shot on digital video tape which may also add to grain and noise on the mini. To me, it seems the mini series was shot on very dark sets, and even the first season on Sci-Fi was very dark too. After that either the Director of Photography, the Director, Producers or even Sci-Fi brass (or all combined) decided to increase the light levels on the sets- so the PQ on later episodes may appear better just because of higher light levels during filming.

michaeltscott

07-10-07, 01:38 PM

Picture quality of the mini-series is excellent in that HD transfer that I saw on UniHD--it's the standard definition transfer that sucks. I have high hopes for the HD discs (I have both the Toshiba HD-A20 and a PS3, so I didn't care whether it appeared on Blu-ray or HD DVD :)).

The use of heavy film grain is intentional in BSG, as it is in many movies. It aids in communicating the gritty, visceral nature of the story. Due to budget considerations, when they went into production of the series they were compelled to switch to HDCAM; director Michael Rymer was very unhappy about that, partly because he feared that he'd lose the rough look of the mini-series, but he worked with a photography director who managed to get him the grain by adding digital noise in post production. I quoted an interview where Rymer talks about this back in this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10247665&&#post10247665) post.

help-r-monkey

07-10-07, 02:17 PM

ridgefamus

07-10-07, 04:48 PM

Is this the first showing by UHD of the mini? I am surprised and delighted that there are no commercial interruptions in this version. Has that been done before? I'm about 3/4 through my recording and am enjoying every minute.

Speaking of graininess - I perceived a severe change in PQ when the scene shifted to the swearing in of the new colonial president. It appeared just as abrupt as NBC golf coverage that goes from HD to SD to HD. Maybe the post-production grain adder got a bit over-zealous in that scene.

Also, in this whole presentation, there are many references to "God" (singular) by the colonial personalities. I thought they recognized many/several gods (plural) as dialog in the more recent episodes has stressed. Is there a storyline change to account for this that I have missed or is this a continuity problem? One of the more striking dissimilarities between the humans and Cylons, I thought, was the Cylon belief in one God.

JimP

07-10-07, 04:53 PM

Probably just a continuity problem.

archiguy

07-10-07, 05:29 PM

Speaking of graininess - I perceived a severe change in PQ when the scene shifted to the swearing in of the new colonial president. It appeared just as abrupt as NBC golf coverage that goes from HD to SD to HD. Maybe the post-production grain adder got a bit over-zealous in that scene.

I believe the mini was shot on 35mm film and the series is shot on HD video. But they clearly intended a gritty-hyperrealistic, documentary look, along with hand-held cameras, etc.

Also, in this whole presentation, there are many references to "God" (singular) by the colonial personalities. I thought they recognized many/several gods (plural) as dialog in the more recent episodes has stressed. Is there a storyline change to account for this that I have missed or is this a continuity problem? One of the more striking dissimilarities between the humans and Cylons, I thought, was the Cylon belief in one God.

It's been awhile since I watched the mini, but I don't believe I noticed that before. Can't be many instances; I haven't noticed any in the series for a couple of years. They work hard on continuity - they still clip the corners off of every piece of paper!

michaeltscott

07-10-07, 08:56 PM

I believe all the grain is intentional, on the DVD commentary they mentioned they wanted to mimic the type of footage you would get from the average joe shooting (since alot of this was inspired by 9/11) the moments with a camcorder. This was to go along with the fact that the surprise attack left little time to get professional camera people. This aside, the UHD version is head and shoulders above the sci-fi broadcast or the dvd, and I can't wait to see this on HD DVD

Sorry if the above doesn't make much sense, but in a nutshell, alot of the shots were crap on purpose.The problems with the DVD are not the film grain effects, but a very poor job of DVD mastering. It's very soft in the great majority of shots and contains lots of common noisy digital artifacts. If these faults were in the original (film) print, they would have been in the HD transfer shown on UniHD and they weren't. IMHO it looks significantly better when shown in SD on the Sci Fi channel.

michaeltscott

07-10-07, 09:14 PM

Also, in this whole presentation, there are many references to "God" (singular) by the colonial personalities. I thought they recognized many/several gods (plural) as dialog in the more recent episodes has stressed. Is there a storyline change to account for this that I have missed or is this a continuity problem? One of the more striking dissimilarities between the humans and Cylons, I thought, was the Cylon belief in one God.Good catch! I just hunted up a transcription of the mini-series (part 1 (http://www.twiztv.com/scripts/battlestar/season1/galactica-ms1.pdf) and part 2 (http://www.twiztv.com/scripts/battlestar/season1/galactica-ms2.pdf)) and if whoever transcribed this got it right, there were no references to "gods" plural at all. People say "my God" and "for God's sake" and "God damn it".

I'm not too surprised that there are discontinuities between the m-s and the series. They were probably still tweaking details for a while after it released.

lax01

07-10-07, 09:22 PM

Good catch! I just hunted up a transcription of the mini-series (part 1 (http://www.twiztv.com/scripts/battlestar/season1/galactica-ms1.pdf) and part 2 (http://www.twiztv.com/scripts/battlestar/season1/galactica-ms2.pdf)) and if whoever transcribed this got it right, there were no references to "gods" plural at all. People say "my God" and "for God's sake" and "God damn it".

I'm not too surprised that there are discontinuities between the m-s and the series. They were probably still tweaking details for a while after it released.

um, they said "Lords of Kobol" multiple times during the Mini-series...specifically, one time I can remember is when Kara learns of Lee's supposed death and prays for him to the "Lords of Kobol"...

Exact quote:

Lords of Kobol, hear my prayer. Take the souls of Thine
sons and daughters lost this day, especially that of... Lee
Adama... into Thine hands...

Another from Elosha

... with heavy hearts we lift up their bodies to you, oh
Lords of Kobol in the knowledge that you will take from
them their burdens and give them life eternal.
(beat)
We also pray that you will look upon us now with mercy
and love just as you did upon our forefathers many years
ago. Just as you led the twelve tribes to Kobol, so now
we hope and pray you will lead us to a new home where
we may begin life anew. So say we all.

michaeltscott

07-10-07, 09:47 PM

um, they said "Lords of Kobol" multiple times during the Mini-series...specifically, one time I can remember is when Kara learns of Lee's supposed death and prays for him to the "Lords of Kobol"... I was referring to the explicit usage of the word "god". No one ever says "My Gods!" or "Gods damn it!" like they have since done in the series.

During the exchange between Leoben Connoy and Adama in the supply depot station, when Leoben refers to "God", I half-expected Adama to ask him which God he was talking about. From that transcription I linked to above:
LEOBEN
But what if God decided he'd made a mistake? What if he
decided that Man was a flawed and imperfect creature?
What if he decided to give souls to another creature?
(beat)
Like the Cylons.
ADAMA
Somehow, I doubt that.
LEOBEN
Why? Because they're different than us? Because
they're the outsiders.
ADAMA
Because God didn't create the Cylons. We did. And I'm
pretty sure we didn't include a soul in their programming.

ridgefamus

07-10-07, 10:53 PM

It's been awhile since I watched the mini, but I don't believe I noticed that before. Can't be many instances; I haven't noticed any in the series for a couple of years. They work hard on continuity - they still clip the corners off of every piece of paper!

Well, I took mental note of the God/gods use in the dialog when Leoben and Adama finding their way through the Ragnar station are discussing whether God included a soul in his design of the Cylon. Adama clearly says "God didn't create the Cylons. We did. And I'm pretty sure we didn't include a soul in their programming."

From that point on, I tried to be attentive to the use of "God" by all parties. Adama may have been caught up using the singular term because Leoben started the discussion saying man's greatest flaw is the belief he alone is chosen of God. Understandable use by Leoben, a Cylon. But Adama continues the discussion using the singular. And as michaeltscott points out, there are several distinct uses in later exclamations by other colonialists. Not a real biggie. I just wanted to check to see if there was any specific event/discovery I may have missed that intentionally altered use of the reference to "gods".

The cut corners of paper - I had to chuckle when the little printouts from the Galactica's tele-printer, torn off to the size of the message, each has the corner cuts. Fancy printer! :D

lax01

07-10-07, 11:04 PM

I was referring to the explicit usage of the word "god". No one ever says "My Gods!" or "Gods damn it!" like they have since done in the series.

During the exchange between Leoben Connoy and Adama in the supply depot station, when Leoben refers to "God", I half-expected Adama to ask him which God he was talking about. From that transcription I linked to above:

From what we've seen on the show (and mini-series), the word "Lord" and "God" seem to be interchangeable...of course I doubt they knew exactly where they were going and the fact that MANY different people have contributed to the BSG storylines, I don't find it that hard to believe that the word "Lord" has been replaced by "God" (and the plural)...I just don't see it as a major sticking point...

rakstr

07-11-07, 09:11 AM

Aw, c'mon. It's the shape of the label, not the name that makes it the official wine of BSG..... get it? :cool: :)

Or there's this one!! OK so it's on rectangular paper but that makes it like their "TV" when you see the corners of the image cropped on a rectangular screen :)

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11225349&whse=BC&topnav=&browse=&lang=en-US

CANNON-FODDER

07-11-07, 09:44 AM

... Adama may have been caught up using the singular term because Leoben started the discussion saying man's greatest flaw is the belief he alone is chosen of God. Understandable use by Leoben, a Cylon. But Adama continues the discussion using the singular...While the transcript contains plenty of other [singular use continuity errors], in this instance I believe it would be appropriate for Commander Adama to use the singular in addressing the Cylon's singular "God" -- if he wanted to be culturally aware. Of course he may have not been that culturally aware, or could have wanted to be deliberately insulting. Wait, how much was known (anything?) of the Cylon Religion at that time? ...

v/r,
C-F

archiguy

07-11-07, 12:17 PM

Or there's this one!! OK so it's on rectangular paper but that makes it like their "TV" when you see the corners of the image cropped on a rectangular screen :)

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11225349&whse=BC&topnav=&browse=&lang=en-US

Good catch. I just ordered a case. :eek: :D

loco

07-15-07, 09:16 PM

Interesting BSG "mini-sodes" news at this link... plus apparently the 'Razor' Pegasus movie will be airing on November 24th.

http://www.zap2it.com/tv/news/zap-scifioriginalcontent20072008,0,5788060.story?coll=zap-news-headlines

michaeltscott

07-15-07, 09:33 PM

I don't get "Razor"--don't we already know everything about Lee Adama's tenure on Pegasus before the ship was sacrificed?

loco

07-15-07, 09:42 PM

Davinleeds

07-15-07, 09:43 PM

I thought I saw her on promo-sci fi-Cain.

JimP

07-15-07, 10:40 PM

Can't figure out if its a previously unaired flashback or a rerun.

loco

07-16-07, 09:39 AM

It's a brand new movie they just shot this year. Obviously, it's a flashback about Pegasus. It will show the Pegasus story from the time of the Cylon attack through part of Lee Adama's command.

Universal approached the BSG folks about a direct-to-DVD movie so they can make more money out of the franchise. This was the idea Ron Moore came up with. He didn't want to use this movie to continue the story from the finale of Season 3 because it would be too disjointed to air a movie in November and then not pick the story up again until early 2008. So, they're going to air the movie on SciFi and then it will come out on DVD a few days later.

Palladin

07-16-07, 01:30 PM

It's a brand new movie they just shot this year. Obviously, it's a flashback about Pegasus. It will show the Pegasus story from the time of the Cylon attack through part of Lee Adama's command.
Good thing Ensign Ro seems to be on-board. No way Lee Adama's personality could carry this film. ;)

Universal approached the BSG folks about a direct-to-DVD movie so they can make more money out of the franchise.....So, they're going to air the movie on SciFi and then it will come out on DVD a few days later.
A day and date broadcast on UHD should complete the deal, particularly if SciFi-HD is not up and running by that time.

___________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

humdinger70

07-17-07, 01:11 AM

Evidently not! :)

I do look forward to seeing more about Cain and her crew and what happened with Pegasus leading up to them finding Galactica. There's a Razor teaser out - very short, but it looks good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShOls47ha1s

Doesn't work (removed for violating terms of usage)...

Try this one... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwruKvEKfvk

loco

07-17-07, 06:16 PM

Thanks, humdinger70.

petergaryr

07-18-07, 07:15 AM

Doesn't work (removed for violating terms of usage)...

Try this one... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwruKvEKfvk

Ah, a breath of fresh air in a stale summer. Thanks.

rakstr

09-02-07, 08:33 AM

Any word on the release of season 3 to DVD?

loco

09-02-07, 10:28 AM

No word on Season 3 yet. The "Razor" movie will be out on DVD December 4th.

I'm really getting sick and tired of waiting for Season 3 on DVD. Shows like Heroes and The Office are already out on DVD (well Office will be out Tuesday). Why the long wait for BSG? I've got two co-workers who are trying to catch up to the series before Season 4 starts, and they are getting tired of waiting to watch Season 3. I'm afraid they'll lose interest once the network fall season starts up.

Oh well.

michaeltscott

09-02-07, 10:42 AM

Personally, I'm not investing in discs until they're available in high-def. That may take forever--the BSG: Season One HD DVD set isn't due out until December :rolleyes:.

Palladin

09-03-07, 09:24 AM

No word on Season 3 yet. The "Razor" movie will be out on DVD December 4th..

This is incorrect. Gotta go back to reading my mind, dude. ;)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11321488&postcount=898

_____________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Rutgar

09-03-07, 09:30 AM

Personally, I'm not investing in discs until they're available in high-def. That may take forever--the BSG: Season One HD DVD set isn't due out until December :rolleyes:.

This is a dilemma that a lot of us are in. I have all of the BSG DVD's that are currently available. But at this point, I don't want to be spending any more money on SD DVD's, in anticipation of BSG in HD.

michaeltscott

09-03-07, 11:11 AM

No word on Season 3 yet. The "Razor" movie will be out on DVD December 4th.This is incorrect. Gotta go back to reading my mind, dude. ;)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11321488&postcount=898I'm sorry, but what was incorrect about that? The Digital Bits column (http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwocentsa141.html#dayw) that was the source of the information stated that the Razor movie would be out on DVD (unfortunately not HD DVD) on 12/4:...Universal has also announced the Battlestar Galactica: Razor - Unrated Director's Cut DVD, also due on 12/4 (SRP $26.98). This will include an uncut version of the 2-part "bonus" episode slated to run on Sci-Fi in November (11/24 to be exact). It's partly a flashback, telling the story of what happened to Admiral Cain and her crew aboard the Battlestar Pegasus during the initial Cylon attack on the colonies. It also features the Galactica's crew (in the present) and it apparently sets up a few story elements that will become important in the show's fourth and final season, due to start airing on Sci-fi in January. We hear that Razor even holds a few surprises for fans of the original Battlestar show, including a look at the original Cylon Centurions and Raiders from the 70s series.Amazon and several other e-tailers have it listed for pre-order.

MOREPOWER

09-03-07, 12:07 PM

Yup if they want me to buy HD players, they need to put out material now, not wait till the SD disks are out, then wait a few months before releasing the HD version. People are just going to stay on the fence till that and a dual format or just one clear winner happens.

Nice to see the thread is still alive somewhat.

loco

09-03-07, 01:26 PM

I'm sorry, but what was incorrect about that?

Yeah thanks! I read that several times and tried to figure out what I'd said wrong, but couldn't. I finally just gave up. :p

archiguy

09-03-07, 03:03 PM

keenan

09-03-07, 03:16 PM

It could have something to do with NBC/Uni and their cost cutting measures.

loco

09-03-07, 03:59 PM

Have you guys heard the news? Not only did SciFi essentially cancel BSG after one more season of 20 episodes, now they want to split the season up over 2 years! Ten episodes starting in January, then the other 10 starting in January of 2009. In other words, they get 2 seasons of Galactica anchoring their schedule for the price of one. Kind of like what ABC is doing to LOST - in that case, 3 seasons for the price of 2.

This may be the future of fan favorite shows with tons of critical acclaim that don't attract the necessary millions of audience cannon-fodder to "justify" full-budget seasons. BSG's audience dwindled to uncomprehensible size, according to Nielsen, given the acclaim and publicity it gets, and then this is what happens. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark, folks.

Yes, I've heard all about it. It's big over on the SciFi board. No one really seems to know what's up for sure. Apparently, Jamie Bamber and Aaron Douglas said this at DragonCon over the weekend. People thought it was a joke, but they said they were serious -- or that SciFi is seriously considering doing this but that a decision hasn't been made. If you don't like this, I'd suggest heading over to the SciFi board and make your views known. Or maybe write a letter or email to NBC/Universal.

I think it would be a huge huge mistake. They want us to wait almost a year for 10 episodes -- and then another year for the concluding 10? That is way too much to ask of the normal viewer. Only the die hards will be left.