I watched the first 15 mins of it today. I couldn't help myself :(

I needed to see how the show started this week after last weeks ending. And it did not disappoint :)
Get into a 12 step program and you should be fine. But NOT another word about the ep until 11:00 p.m., right? ;)

_____________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

You do realize that's more than just a bit of an overstatement, don't you? In fact, BSG was not 'totally serialized', or there never would have been the plethora of stand alone/'filler' eps during the past two seasons. The attempt to make it more 'episodic' in order to increase viewership was an acknowledged failure, and while I believe that the nature of BSG may have strained the patience of the average idiot viewer, making it 'episodic' did little to improve its numbers, and probably alienated a fair number of its existing viewers.


A lot of times, a "filler" episode is inserted into the run because they've blown out their budget on a bunch of CGI or location shooting the episode before and they need to balance out the costs. It's a fact of life in the cablenet world. But I've enjoyed the stand-alone eps, some better than others; they give you a glimpse into what the rest of the fleet is doing and how they're coping and fleshes the overall story out a bit.

These shows are not going to compete with mainstream programming. They may occasionally draw a lot a viewers for a brief time, due to a buzz, but the majority of those viewers will walk away.

That's why Caprica is being rebranded Law & Order: Cylon Detection Unit.

Trust me. After watching Life get renewed (I love the show, but it is weeeeird) I am now thoroughly convinced that all you have to do to keep a show on the air is brand it as a cop show.

If only CBS had gone with CSI: New Bern, Jericho would still be on the air.

I'm tellin ya. A TV version of Blade Runner would be the biggest sci-fi show ever just because it has a cop angle.

Ya gotta get the coptitude going. That's what the televizzle viewers want. Cops. Lots of cops. Vampire cops (Moonlight). Undead cops (New Amsterdam). Buddhist cops (Life). OCD investigators (Monk).

The time has come to put a Cylon cop show on TV. It will be the biggest thing ever. Promised.

Get into a 12 step program and you should be fine. But NOT another word about the ep until 11:00 p.m., right? ;)


So Say We All...:)

That's why Caprica is being rebranded Law & Order: Cylon Detection Unit.

Trust me. After watching Life get renewed (I love the show, but it is weeeeird) I am now thoroughly convinced that all you have to do to keep a show on the air is brand it as a cop show.

If only CBS had gone with CSI: New Bern, Jericho would still be on the air.

I'm tellin ya. A TV version of Blade Runner would be the biggest sci-fi show ever just because it has a cop angle.

Ya gotta get the coptitude going. That's what the televizzle viewers want. Cops. Lots of cops. Vampire cops (Moonlight). Undead cops (New Amsterdam). Buddhist cops (Life). OCD investigators (Monk).

Okay, not EXACTLY what you're looking for, but pretty damn closer than you'd expect.

"Fox has hired veteran “Alias” and “Lost” writer-producer Jeff Pinkner as showrunner of J.J. Abrams’ new sci-fi project “Fringe,” a move that suggests “Fringe” will almost certainly be announced as a series when Fox unveils its 2008-09 schedule next month.

The project is about a hot FBI girl (Anna Torv) who teams with an unbalanced scientist (John Noble) and the scientist’s caretaker son (Joshua Jackson) to investigate a growing wave of paranormal phenomena."

___________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

She played Inara, the Companion.

From Wikipedia:
"Also, at the time they were shooting this, Rebecca Gayheart was playing the role of Inara Serra, but Whedon knew that it was not going to work out and so shot scenes with her interacting with the crew in singles, so that the only part that would have to be reshot would be the shots of Inara."

I never got who thought Rebecca Gayhart worked as Inara in the first place. Probably Rebecca Gayhart's best character ever was on Dead Like Me. And if you've ever seen her as the flighty flapper on DLM, it's hard to picture her as the endlessly cool and collected Inara.

BTW, just to tie all this Firefly talk back into BSG...

A few of you folks have noted that the CG effects from Firefly hold up over time. Just to connect a few dots, Zioc, the company that did Firefly, also does most of BSG's effects.

As much as like their work from Firefly -- and the final sequence in the movie Serenity is insane -- Zoic's stuff from BSG sometimes rises to pure artwork. Lee floating in space listlessly dying and watching the attack on the Resurrection Ship is almost sublime. And the S4 opener exceeded every expectation I had after watching the S3 finale. I remember someone in the room saying something to the effect of, "I see where all the money went."

Also, another Firefly tie-in. Jane Epenson was a writer on Firefly (and Buffy, because she's a Whedon hand) and is now a co-executive producer on BSG. Her first script was The Passage (S2, where Kat dies).

BSG owes some heritage, especially visually, to Firefly. And without the Chinese and the constant oneupsmanship with jokes (some episodes of Firefly degenerated into incoherent wrecks because of all the laughs).

The time has come to put a Cylon cop show on TV. It will be the biggest thing ever. Promised.

Well let's face it, there have been plenty of times where BSG would be indistinguishable from NYPD Blue in Space. Alcoholism, family problems, personal angst, all that stuff.

I have to believe if BSG had been given a fair shot on NBC it would be a pretty big hit, regardless of the public's apparent distaste for 'space' shows. I've gotten 5 or 6 friends who would otherwise NEVER watch sci-fi programming hooked on BSG.

In fact it really makes me wonder if the absence of shows like BSG on network TV are really due to the tastes of the masses, or just by some mandate of the network heads. I think the success of shows like Lost and Heroes shows that a lot of people want to see some intelligent thought-provoking television.

The project is about a hot FBI girl (Anna Torv) who teams with an unbalanced scientist (John Noble) and the scientist’s caretaker son (Joshua Jackson) to investigate a growing wave of paranormal phenomena."


See? How long were The X-Files on the air? Widely acclaimed. Heavily viewed. Cop angle. That's all ya need. Vampires, aliens and killer robots are just accessories.

A few of you folks have noted that the CG effects from Firefly hold up over time. Just to connect a few dots, Zioc, the company that did Firefly, also does most of BSG's effects.



Is Zoic still doing the effects for BSG? I thought I read somewhere that the show pulled all the CGI in house beginning with last season. Now, it wouldn't surprise me hear that they might have stolen a few guys from Zoic to get them up and running, were that the case.

A lot of times, a "filler" episode is inserted into the run because they've blown out their budget on a bunch of CGI or location shooting the episode before and they need to balance out the costs.
The weird industry term for that is a bottle episode (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottle_episode) and sadly it's as old a serialized television programs.

Is Zoic still doing the effects for BSG? I thought I read somewhere that the show pulled all the CGI in house beginning with last season. Now, it wouldn't surprise me hear that they might have stolen a few guys from Zoic to get them up and running, were that the case.

I haven't read anything to suggest Zoic no longer does their effects. It doesn't strike me as something you'd tinker with, especially with just 20 episodes left. And the tradition on TV is to source out CG work, not bring it in-house.

Maybe I'm wrong. But, I haven't seen anything to make me think I'm off.

BSG owes some heritage, especially visually, to Firefly.

There is an actual concrete connection there. I'm pretty sure the whole story is in the special features on the season 1 DVDs. I'm a little fuzzy on the exact details but it goes something like this:

Fox had BSG had been in the works for quite a few years before it ended up on TV. Whedon was involved in the very early stages of development, this would have been during the final season of Buffy. Eventually he decided it just wasn't for him and started on Firefly instead.

The BSG people then contacted Bryan Singer, who worked on it for a while but left to take over the Superman franchise for Warner. At this point, Fox gave up on the project.

Now apparently, all this time, Moore and Eick had been working on their own treatment of BSG independently. They ended up buying it from Fox. So it's not too much of a stretch to think that some of Whedon's ideas from way back ended up included in the series.

Incidentally, Whedon and Moore are supposed to be pretty good friends, and Whedon claims BSG is his favorite show on TV.

IA few of you folks have noted that the CG effects from Firefly hold up over time. Just to connect a few dots, Zioc, the company that did Firefly, also does most of BSG's effects.


That hasn't been true since season 1. Over time, the visual effecs supervisor who works for the show shifted the work to Atmosphere in Canada, and then to an in-house visual effects department he set up at Universal. I'm pretty sure Zoic stopped working on the show at the end of season 2.

As much as like their work from Firefly -- and the final sequence in the movie Serenity is insane -- Zoic's stuff from BSG sometimes rises to pure artwork. Lee floating in space listlessly dying and watching the attack on the Resurrection Ship is almost sublime. And the S4 opener exceeded every expectation I had after watching the S3 finale.

The season 4 opener was great, but it wasn't done by Zoic.

I thought I read somewhere that the show pulled all the CGI in house beginning with last season. Now, it wouldn't surprise me hear that they might have stolen a few guys from Zoic to get them up and running, were that the case.

You are correct on both counts.

Maybe I'm wrong. But, I haven't seen anything to make me think I'm off.

Closing credits for last weeks episode say BSG In-House Effects Department.

I have long since been skeptical of this show's claim to fame as the no.1 show on the tube. I decided to give it a try a month ago, and rented the first season HD-DVD set... and now I am hooked !! :D

I managed to watch all three seasons in a couple of weeks, to get caught up just in time for S4, and now I can't wait a week between episodes.. :o

One of the things that stuck in my mind from earlier seasons was that when Adama orders the fleet to do a blind jump in light of a surprise Cylon attack, Tigh remarks "That jump could land us in the middle of the Sun !!".. Now, that struck me as odd, and stuck in my mind a long time. If he really meant "THE SUN".. they would already know the location of the Solar System, and conversely THE EARTH. That they would just refer to some star or gas giant as "THE SUN" was a bit strange.

Also, I read the last few months worth of posts in this thread, and I see a recurring discussion about the memories inherited by the Skinjobs with each resurrection.

I contend that since there are many Cylons of each model, any one cylon is subject to have a different set of memories, based on its individual experiences. There does not seem to be a synchronization of the consciousness of all Cylons of a particular model.

So, technically, BaseStar Sharon, Galactica Boomer and Helo's Athena all have differing pools of memory, with Galactica Boomer and Helo's Athena sharing the most common subsets of memories. So, Galactica Boomer and, after resurrection, Athena remember their erstwhile love affair with The Chief. Basestar Sharon's set of experiences in the middle of the Cylon posse do not necessarily get uploaded to "the database" to be passed on the next cylon of their model to take the goo-bath. So, it is possible that Athena could really not know the grand plan being hatched by the Basestar Cylon posse.

Now apparently, all this time, Moore and Eick had been working on their own treatment of BSG independently. They ended up buying it from Fox. So it's not too much of a stretch to think that some of Whedon's ideas from way back ended up included in the series.

The original miniseries script from Moore had a lot to do with the look of the show, too. It didn't just come from Fox's development. The script was very explicit about how the battle scenes should look, describing the "chase camera" style in great detail. In fact, the original premise for the battle scenes was that they would be seen in 24-style split screens, with each box being a different point of view of the same action. For example, one cameara following behind a cylon as it flies towards Galactica, seeing the same action from a nose-camera on a viper, and a third split as a closeup on a pilot in the cockpit. Luckily, good sense prevailed and somebody realized that would cost 3 times as much, and make the battle sequences harder to watch. So that went away.

The original miniseries script from Moore had a lot to do with the look of the show, too. It didn't just come from Fox's development. The script was very explicit about how the battle scenes should look, describing the "chase camera" style in great detail. In fact, the original premise for the battle scenes was that they would be seen in 24-style split screens, with each box being a different point of view of the same action. For example, one cameara following behind a cylon as it flies towards Galactica, seeing the same action from a nose-camera on a viper, and a third split as a closeup on a pilot in the cockpit. Luckily, good sense prevailed and somebody realized that would cost 3 times as much, and make the battle sequences harder to watch. So that went away.
Too bad. With the frenetic pacing in the battle sequences, it would've been much cooler on BSG than it ever was on 24.

But hey, we still got a few more hours of waiting for the goods. So keep spilling. ;)

________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Last Friday I was seated, ready and excited after a year of waiting.

One minute before the show was to start, the cable went out due to a pretty nasty storm. It was an ugly scene. Daughter covering ears, wife glaring murderously, etc.

I have avoided reading this thread and even a couple of BG geek friends for a week so I could watch the repeat tonight uninformed.

I was successful in remaining ignorant of any part of the first episode. I must admit the temptation to scroll UP is strong.

Really didn't think it was possible... :-)

Last Friday I was seated, ready and excited after a year of waiting.

One minute before the show was to start, the cable went out due to a pretty nasty storm. It was an ugly scene. Daughter covering ears, wife glaring murderously, etc.

I have avoided reading this thread and even a couple of BG geek friends for a week so I could watch the repeat tonight uninformed.

I was successful in remaining ignorant of any part of the first episode. I must admit the temptation to scroll UP is strong.

Really didn't think it was possible... :-)

Ouch! Better luck tonight!

Uh, another 90 minutes.

The clock seems to be ticking slower and slower. I feel like I'm in one of those artificially generated wormholes from Star Trek where time slows to a crawl.

It's not grainy tonight.

Wow, fantastic episode tonight. Nothing terribly surprising in terms of story developments but still really well done.

The scene where head Baltar is talking to real Baltar had me in stitches. :)

I was almost expecting a "by your command".

I was almost expecting a "by your command".

They'll work it in at some point.

I betting the last scene of the last episode. :)

An ok episode nothing special

Ouch! Better luck tonight!

Yeah, I know it sounds like BS, but it is true.

I pitched a temper tantrum that would make a ten year proud. Honestly quite funny.

One minute before showtime...the one true god perhaps? ;)

Worth the wait, I thought anyway.

They'll work it in at some point.

I betting the last scene of the last episode. :)

Six said it in the last scene of the miniseries.

I expect a lot of people will say, "nothing happened" in this episode. But I think it was one of the better episodes in a long time. Lots of amazing character moments in there.

Starbuck & Roslin
Roslin & Adama
Gaius & ... Gaius lol

I seriously can't believe Roslin really meant to kill her. Whoa, she's hardcore.

I expect a lot of people will say, "nothing happened" in this episode. But I think it was one of the better episodes in a long time. Lots of amazing character moments in there.

Starbuck & Roslin
Roslin & Adama
Gaius & ... Gaius lol

I seriously can't believe Roslin really meant to kill her. Whoa, she's hardcore.

Yep, one of the better episodes of the entire series IMO. So well acted, and I love how they play the whole political situation with the Cylons.

Roslin is definitely becoming a stone-cold b****. When Adama told her off in his quarters I was like "YEAH!!"

I suspect the writers want us to hate her in preparation for some plot twist yet to come...

The cast is just amazing. All of them. Katee ... wow.

And I will never hate Roslin, too much of a fangirl. But she tried me tonight. Then, when the hair came out, I was all sympathetic again. :)

Maybe "hate" is too strong a word.

"extremely irritating" might be a better descriptor.

:)

I still think Lee Adama is the final model.

And why does Baltar have a 'Virtual Baltar'. I thought he was a cylon from the beginning so if he was the final model that would suck too.

Wouldn't it be lame if 'humans' as a whole were the final model?
They better not put pull something like that.

I realized something when Baltar was talking about music with Tori. What he was talking about and the music the Four heard seems to be tied to what Six told Baltar way back in Kobol's Last Gleaming: "Life has a melody, Gaius. A rhythm of notes which become your existence once played in harmony with God's plan."

And why does Baltar have a 'Virtual Baltar'. I thought he was a cylon from the beginning so if he was the final model that would suck too.


I think that what he's seeing is the Baltar from Six's head. Somehow.

Personally I think the 'real' Baltar is dead and has been since the miniseries (remember the big nuclear blast that destroyed his house?). The Baltar we know is just a copy that has his memories, a vessel of some kind for "the one true god" or whatever.

Probably the same thing with Starbuck.......the Starbuck we see now is just a copy and the 'real' Starbuck actually DID die on that gas planet.

Of course this is all wild speculation, I'm probably completely wrong.

The whole angle with the Cylons is awesome. The original Cylons turned on their human masters, then made themselves into humans. Now their robotic slaves are turned on them -- "All this has happened before, and all will happen again." I'm guessing that eventually the Centurions will turn on the other models as well.

Something else I found interesting: on the baseship one of the Sharons remarks about the Final Five something like "think of all the things they must have seen" which implies that the Final Five have maybe been around much, much longer than the current ones. This would fit in with the whole "guardian" theory that somebody else mentioned earlier in the thread.

I think that what he's seeing is the Baltar from Six's head. Somehow.

Personally I think the 'real' Baltar is dead and has been since the miniseries (remember the big nuclear blast that destroyed his house?). The Baltar we know is just a copy that has his memories, a vessel of some kind for "the one true god" or whatever.

Probably the same thing with Starbuck.......the Starbuck we see now is just a copy and the 'real' Starbuck actually DID die on that gas planet.

Of course this is all wild speculation, I'm probably completely wrong.

A copy but NOT a cylon in other words? Because there is absolutely no way just hiding behind a cylon could save one from a nuclear blast or viper explosion. That could explain Baltar. However Starbucks "resurrection" would involve intervention by an unknown third party for that scenario to play out unless Starbuck was copied a long time ago like she mentioned in previous episode.

A copy but NOT a cylon in other words? Because there is absolutely no way just hiding behind a cylon could save one from a nuclear blast or viper explosion. That could explain Baltar. However Starbucks "resurrection" would involve intervention by an unknown third party for that scenario to play out unless Starbuck was copied a long time ago like she mentioned in previous episode.

Some of us believe that major "characters" from the original series, the Ship of Light/Beings of Light haven't been seen yet. Well, unless you consider the scene where D'Anna saw the 5 as luminescent beings---which would then point to why they are "fundamentally different".

A copy but NOT a cylon in other words? Because there is absolutely no way just hiding behind a cylon could save one from a nuclear blast or viper explosion. That could explain Baltar. However Starbucks "resurrection" would involve intervention by an unknown third party for that scenario to play out unless Starbuck was copied a long time ago like she mentioned in previous episode.

Human copy I could buy. Baltar as a Cylon, no. If he were a Cylon, he would have resurrected at some point (hiding behind a girl during a nuclear blast that destroys your house and the girl is not a sufficient "duck and cover"). If he resurrected, the Cylons would know, unless.....

I've been wondering about what is under Tigh's eyepatch. I know he lost an eye during the occupation, and in one episode we saw the vacant eyesocket. Wonder if it is still vacant. Wonder if the final five don't really need a resurrection ship. Maybe they can self regenerate, kind of like Claire from Heroes. That would explain how they could remain hidden, even from the other Cylons.

The whole angle with the Cylons is awesome. The original Cylons turned on their human masters, then made themselves into humans. Now their robotic slaves are turned on them -- "All this has happened before, and all will happen again." I'm guessing that eventually the Centurions will turn on the other models as well....

The Cylons were created by Cylons to serve Cylons.
They evolved.
They rebelled.
....and they have a Plan.

Some of us believe that major "characters" from the original series, the Ship of Light/Beings of Light haven't been seen yet. Well, unless you consider the scene where D'Anna saw the 5 as luminescent beings---which would then point to why they are "fundamentally different".

I was wondering if the Ship of Light/Beings of Light might account for Starbucks return. But wouldn't the writer's have taken advantage of that and had an episode showing them?

Edit: On second thought, keeping us in suspense about it is more fun than the actual knowing and opens up the possibility that Starbuck's a Cylon too.

The Cylons were created by Cylons to serve Cylons.
They evolved.
They rebelled.
....and they have a Plan.


.............and something's changed.


(insert dramatic music) :)

.............and something's changed.


(insert dramatic music) :)

Agreed.

This was hardly a "filler" episode (in terms of progress of getting to Earth), but it was a fascinating look into the decision-making process of Cylon society.

A society ruled by a committee. Yikes. It brings back long surpressed memories of when I was working for AT&T and we were experimenting with "self-managing/self-directing" teams where there was no designated team leader, but shared group power. It worked to a point, but broke down when it came to disciplinary procedures when a team member wasn't performing up to where he/she needed to be.

Exactly the situation the Cylons are facing. Although the Cylon society has not been potrayed exactly as a hive mentality, it has come across as everyone knew his/her/its place in it and group process was working.

Now the danger of individuality, going against your "model", Raiders thinking for themselves, and centurions being willing to take out humanoid models is getting really interesting. A Cylon class war. I love it.

Peter,

Jucy material for sure.

Yes a Cylon class war. I get the feeling that in the end the centurions will try to take out all skin jobs humans included, and skin job and humans will unite under the final five.

The one told the six she had no idea what she unleashed!

I watched it twice and consider it one of the best episodes to date, even without a space battle. Fantastic show I want more now :(

About the final Cylon - remember they've dropped hints about Dee all along. Like how she somehow managed to survive when the "super-Centurions" were rampaging thru the ship killing everybody they came across. Perhaps they "recognized" her, like the Raiders? (Maybe the super-Centurions had the advanced chip Caprica-Six mentioned last night; they were upgraded models after all.)

Speaking of Dee - very moving scene at the end with Apollo. Guess they're officially divorced now (she gets to keep the "house"). Loved the soundtrack last night as well - we got the patriotic Colonial flute music as well as the spooky Cylon piano music.

Looks like Caprica is goin' to have some 'splainin' to do when the other five, especially Brother Cavell (love that toaster!), regenerate.

About the final Cylon - remember they've dropped hints about Dee all along. Like how she somehow managed to survive when the "super-Centurions" were rampaging thru the ship killing everybody they came across. Perhaps they "recognized" her, like the Raiders? (Maybe the super-Centurions had the advanced chip Caprica-Six mentioned last night; they were upgraded models after all.)

Speaking of Dee - very moving scene at the end with Apollo. Guess they're officially divorced now (she gets to keep the "house"). Loved the soundtrack last night as well - we got the patriotic Colonial flute music as well as the spooky Cylon piano music.

Looks like Caprica is goin' to have some 'splainin' to do when the other five, especially Brother Cavell (love that toaster!), regenerate.


Maybe by the time he regenerates, she will have unboxed D'Anna just to really pi** him off! :D

At one time or the other, they have dropped hints about many of the characters being cylon. I just hope it is not someone out of the blue. I want the series to be tied up neatly by what we have seen and just haven't figured out. None of this last second gotcha plot points. I don't want to have to take anything for granted with this series. I don't want it left open hoping that there is a future movie in the plans. It has been too good up to this point.

Maybe by the time he regenerates, she will have unboxed D'Anna just to really pi** him off! :D

Didn't someone say (Moore) that the D'Anna character comes back in the middle of this season. I thought I read that somewhere. So it will be too early to have her in the next couple of episodes. I have to admit, I thought she was going to show up last night and be the one to do what #6 did with the cylons and #1.

I wonder if the not-killed models are going to shut down the goo-bathtubs so that the killed models can't return?

Good show last night. Great cast - great visuals - lots to chew on.

For me the impact of the show is lessened watching it in broadcast (commercial) form. I imagine most in this group are used to it. I'm a newb to watching the show this way and I much prefer the DVD watching experience. I just don't think I can wait until 4.0 is released. (Then 4.5?) :eek:

Does anyone know if the Amazon.com downloads have commercial breaks? (I have dialup speed - 26400 tops - but DSL has been promised to us boonie-dwellers within a month)
Thanks.

Well, one question was answered tonight. We now know all the Cylon model numbers.

1 - Cavil
2 - Leoben
3 - D'Anna
4 - Simon
5 - Doral
6 - er, Six
8 - Sharon

So, 7 and 9-12 are the Final Five. I bet the last one is 7. I wonder if they'll ever answer why the FF aren't 8-12. The 7 seems out of place.

Agreed.

This was hardly a "filler" episode (in terms of progress of getting to Earth), but it was a fascinating look into the decision-making process of Cylon society.
Agreed seconded! No way this was filler. People who think an ep is 'filler' by its nature , if it doesn't include a huge space battle, really need to re-think their parameters. Roslin has always been one of ny faves (and not because she's kind of my type and I had the serious hots for her when I saw Dances with Wolves ;)), but because of her pragmatic and sobering approach to leadership, particulalrly as her highest prior political rank was in education.
A society ruled by a committee. Yikes. It brings back long surpressed memories of when I was working for AT&T
On behalf of most of the U.S. population, let me state that we would not be the least bit surprised to learn that A T & T management was comprised primarily by cylons. :D

About the final Cylon - remember they've dropped hints about Dee all along.
Yeah, and back in Season 2, that led many of us to strongly suspect her of being cylon for several reasons including her post in the command center.

Speaking of Dee - very moving scene at the end with Apollo. Guess they're officially divorced now (she gets to keep the "house"). Actually I found Lee's response to the tribute to be the most moving, but definitely appreciated the way they wrapped up a long outstanding issue with that great line and a glance.

Looks like Caprica is goin' to have some 'splainin' to do when the other five, especially Brother Cavell (love that toaster!), regenerate.
I've got my doubts. Like someone else posted, my immediate reaction to the ending was that Caprica and her group should be pulling the plugs on the resurrection devices immediately. Too bad we'll be losing Dean Stockwell if/when that happens.

________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Does anyone know if the Amazon.com downloads have commercial breaks? (I have dialup speed - 26400 tops - but DSL has been promised to us boonie-dwellers within a month)
Thanks.No, they do not, any more than DVDs do. It'd suck to pay $1.90 to see an episode and then be asked to watch ads.

I've got my doubts. Like someone else posted, my immediate reaction to the ending was that Caprica and her group should be pulling the plugs on the resurrection devices immediately. Too bad we'll be losing Dean Stockwell if/when that happens.Apparently you don't watch the end-of-episode previews.

Looks like Caprica is goin' to have some 'splainin' to do when the other five, especially Brother Cavell (love that toaster!), regenerate.What do you mean "other five"? I thought that the 2s and 8s (except maybe for the one 8 that dissented) were in on this "coup" with her.

What do you mean "other five"? I thought that the 2s and 8s (except maybe for the one 8 that dissented) were in on this "coup" with her.

Ah, right you are. Should have said "other 3".

Roslin to Adama: "Are you gonna keep waltzing or you gonna sit down and talk? What's going on? SIT !" :eek:

Later, Adama to Roslin: "You can stay in the room. GET OUT OF MY HEAD !!" :D

I loved the dialog..

No, they do not, any more than DVDs do. It'd suck to pay $1.90 to see an episode and then be asked to watch ads.
Yes it would - thanks.

BSG is the main thing that tempts me to get back into satellite viewing. (No cable where we live) The cost of that is higher than the downloads (and the quality much higher) but then I've got commercials.

Can anyone speak to the quality of amazon.com downloads? Am I watching a SCIFI episode sized box?
EDIT: I downloaded the "unbox"(sp?) a couple of weeks ago and I know it's small. I wondered if the show file itself could be used in a different player? Dialup is way too slow to download the show as I found out. Thanks for any info.

Roslin to Adama: "Are you gonna keep waltzing or you gonna sit down and talk? What's going on? SIT !" :eek:

Later, Adama to Roslin: "You can stay in the room. GET OUT OF MY HEAD !!" :D

I loved the dialog..
Same here - very good scene.

Roslin to Adama: "Are you gonna keep waltzing or you gonna sit down and talk? What's going on? SIT !" :eek:

Later, Adama to Roslin: "You can stay in the room. GET OUT OF MY HEAD !!" :D

I loved the dialog..

He's just such a subtle actor - every little movement, every inflection of his voice, even his eyes conveyed a guy who was just getting into his cups but not quite there yet. Watching those two do a scene together is like watching an acting master class.

Good show last night. Great cast - great visuals - lots to chew on.

For me the impact of the show is lessened watching it in broadcast (commercial) form. I imagine most in this group are used to it. I'm a newb to watching the show this way and I much prefer the DVD watching experience. I just don't think I can wait until 4.0 is released. (Then 4.5?) :eek:

Does anyone know if the Amazon.com downloads have commercial breaks? (I have dialup speed - 26400 tops - but DSL has been promised to us boonie-dwellers within a month)
Thanks.

If you have a DVR, why not just fast forward through the commercials.

I've got a TIVO and I can press the 30second skip 6 or 7 times and totally bypass the ads. With BSG, I find that they sometimes mingle previews in the the ads so I skip forward carefully so I won't miss something that I'll actually want to watch.

Mike,

I did an Amazon unbox download several months ago and thought that the resolution quality was visibly below standard definition.

Did they improve on it or is it still about the same?

Can anyone speak to the quality of amazon.com downloads? Am I watching a SCIFI episode sized box?I buy television episodes when I miss recording one from time to time, and generally I buy them from Unbox if I can't find the series in HD in the Xbox Live Video Store. (According to Amazon, I've bought some 31 TV episodes--yikes)!. Looking at the "Video Format Details" box at the bottom of the Battlestar Galactica page at Amazon Unbox, all versions are 4:3 "fullscreen" format, and no doubt letterboxed, so you'll have to zoom it to fill a widescreen display. The TiVo versions are at a slightly higher bit rate than the PC ones, 2.8 Mbps versus 2.5 Mbps for the PC, though I don't know that there's any noticeable difference in PQ between the two. My PC is a Media Center-oriented laptop that I use my 46" 1080p LCD panel as a monitor for (WMP on it responds to IR remote commands that I have programmed into my universal), so it doesn't much matter to me whether I watch either the PC or TiVo versions, though I've developed a slight preference for TiVo--not quite sure why.

Mike,

I did an Amazon unbox download several months ago and thought that the resolution quality was visibly below standard definition.

Did they improve on it or is it still about the same?It varies. Some things are decent, some of riddled with digital video artifacts. It rarely approaches DVD quality, in my experience. It's all about convenience :).

I doubt that it's any worse than the SD broadcast on my local cable system. Once I resign myself to watching in SD, nuances in picture quality are lost on me. If I can make out what's going on, it's all pretty much the same to me.

He's just such a subtle actor - every little movement, every inflection of his voice, even his eyes conveyed a guy who was just getting into his cups but not quite there yet. Watching those two do a scene together is like watching an acting master class.
Yup, was thinking the same thing at the time. It was almost as if I had stepped through a door and had walked into the middle of an O'Neill or Pinter play. I don't think they have ever let the two of them chew up the scenery like that in any prior ep. For my money, they could have done another half-hour just winging it.

_____________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

He's just such a subtle actor - every little movement, every inflection of his voice, even his eyes conveyed a guy who was just getting into his cups but not quite there yet. Watching those two do a scene together is like watching an acting master class.

They are amazing as a team. That scene alone will have them at least in the running for an Emmy.

Filler episode, bleh. It's excellent drama with a sci-fi backdrop.

What do you mean "other five"? I thought that the 2s and 8s (except maybe for the one 8 that dissented) were in on this "coup" with her.

I would have to go back and watch again, but even though there were only 3 models "killed" I thought there may have been more than one of the non-Cavills in the room that were shot. I may be remembering wrong, though.

I would have to go back and watch again, but even though there were only 3 models "killed" I thought there may have been more than one of the non-Cavills in the room that were shot. I may be remembering wrong, though.

There was a lot of gunfire in the background indicating that the slaughter was shipwide. I wonder if Boomer got gunned down too.

They are amazing as a team. That scene alone will have them at least in the running for an Emmy.

Filler episode, bleh. It's excellent drama with a sci-fi backdrop. It's starting to remind me of Deadwood, where these actors might not be acting in this weeks hottest, biggest TV show or movie, but instead they are getting the chance to do the the best acting of their careers. I can really envision that most of major characters on BSG are loading up their 'highlight reel' with BSG scenes. Just the same as the end of Deadwood, I actually feel bad for these actors when they have to start reading for parts on 'regular' TV or movies, parts with stupid hamfisted dialogue and 2 dimensional characters.

I would have to go back and watch again, but even though there were only 3 models "killed" I thought there may have been more than one of the non-Cavills in the room that were shot. I may be remembering wrong, though.I just checked that scene. There were five at the table, being a single Cavil at the head with two Simons on his left and two Dorals seated to his right.

I also think that I have more evidence for the Centurions having organic brains--Six said that they'd removed the "telencephalic inhibitors" from their brains. In animal/human brain anatomy, the telencephalon is the the precursory form of the frontal lobes, the seat of consciousness.

~snip~ I actually feel bad for these actors when they have to start reading for parts on 'regular' TV or movies, parts with stupid hamfisted dialogue and 2 dimensional characters.

Ah, but it is those very lacking roles that even made it possible to draw such high caliber talent to a project like BSG in the first place. Sci-fi is not the most lucrative area of television programming and (I would think) is always a risky proposition from the business aspect.

Well, that and the fact that so-called reality shows are taking all of the juicy primetime slots. :)

And why does Baltar have a 'Virtual Baltar'. I thought he was a cylon from the beginning so if he was the final model that would suck too.

I wanna pitch my theory...

"Virtual Baltar", the one Baltar sees himself anyhow, is the Cylon God speaking directly to him. RDM intended to intro the Cylon God at the end of season one as a character, and the other writers brutally torpedoed the idea.

I think this is the light, slow way of introducing the Cylon God as a character, and also to Baltar. Bear in mind, seeing God would probably screw with most people. Baltar? Baltar is down to his last marble. Cylon God probably doesn't wanna push him too hard.

All that said, we were all laughing our asses off when Baltar started seeing a vision of himself. Not as good as when Caprica Six saw him, but still pretty funny.

Like someone else posted, my immediate reaction to the ending was that Caprica and her group should be pulling the plugs on the resurrection devices immediately. Too bad we'll be losing Dean Stockwell if/when that happens.

Not necessarily. Maybe they try to make their point and call it at that.

BTW, this fleet is now out of range of the Cylon homeworld and the 12 Colonies (presumably abandoned). So, there is the potential for the larger body of Cylons to catch wind of this uprising and then hunt down the wayward fleet.

I'm just trying to think of ways they could keep Dean Stockwell. By far the meanest scene stealer in all of BSG.

Not necessarily. Maybe they try to make their point and call it at that.

BTW, this fleet is now out of range of the Cylon homeworld and the 12 Colonies (presumably abandoned). So, there is the potential for the larger body of Cylons to catch wind of this uprising and then hunt down the wayward fleet.

I'm just trying to think of ways they could keep Dean Stockwell. By far the meanest scene stealer in all of BSG.

Since we're speculating....6 keeps the bad cylons from resurrecting, but Boomer (disguised as Sharon) sneaks around brings him back. We'll find that they're other Boomers and will have a tough time with which ones are Boomers and which ones are Sharrons. Then the ethical problem will be to box all the Sharron/Boomers because you can't tell them apart or not to.

Hope Linda Lawless returns but I can see why the writers might not bring her back as that would answer too many questions too fast.

I'm just trying to think of ways they could keep Dean Stockwell. By far the meanest scene stealer in all of BSG.

All you have to remember is "There are many copies" Until boxed a series is still a good portion of all the human form cylons around, just because a base ship or two has been cleared of them doesn't mean the rest aren't out there =P

Also the centurions, at least before being "fixed" to have full mental ability, were unable to tell the humanoid models apart within a series, weather they can do that now is still not clear.

Also the centurions, at least before being "fixed" to have full mental ability, were unable to tell the humanoid models apart within a series, weather they can do that now is still not clear.

It seems obvious that they can; otherwise they would've killed all the skinjobs rather than just the Cavils/Dorals/Simons

Although it seems fairly certain that they're eventually going to turn on the other 3 models at some point.

On behalf of most of the U.S. population, let me state that we would not be the least bit surprised to learn that A T & T management was comprised primarily by cylons. :D

I thought this was confirmed a long time ago in "The President's Analyst."

jdg

Hope Linda Lawless returns but I can see why the writers might not bring her back as that would answer too many questions too fast.Xena? I thought her name was Lucy....

It varies. Some things are decent, some of riddled with digital video artifacts. It rarely approaches DVD quality, in my experience. It's all about convenience :).

Sort of like the HD broadcasts ;)


But I shouldn't complain since they are LEAPS AND BOUNDS better than the old SD Sci-Fi channel...

I'm really liking this season and cannot wait for the next one

If you have a DVR, why not just fast forward through the commercials.

I've got a TIVO and I can press the 30second skip 6 or 7 times and totally bypass the ads. With BSG, I find that they sometimes mingle previews in the the ads so I skip forward carefully so I won't miss something that I'll actually want to watch.
I did an Amazon unbox download several months ago and thought that the resolution quality was visibly below standard definition.

We really should move into the 21st (or even the 20th) century and get Satellite again and a DVR. We just noticed that we weren't watching the Satellite very often a few years ago. We have a good number of OTA signals and all of our TVs have ATSC tuners so we get good PQ from a number of sources/networks. But we don't get any SCIFI or other specialty channels. It didn't matter until BSG came into our lives.

I think Amazon.com might be the solution for us. (That does depend on us moving out of dialup speed and into DSL.) I am still reluctant to sign up for 2 years of Satellite, although that may be what we end up doing.
Thanks for the advice.

I think Amazon.com might be the solution for us. (That does depend on us moving out of dialup speed and into DSL.) I am still reluctant to sign up for 2 years of Satellite, although that may be what we end up doing.
Thanks for the advice.

Honestly, if you're going to do it, do it now. In 2 years, the telcos and cablecos will likely have caught up with DirectTV (Dish is falling way behind as well.). The satellite companies will have to set the national HD push aside soon to focus on digital and HD locals.

Back on topic...

Take out 3 "older model" cyclons to make way for the final five?

I buy television episodes when I miss recording one from time to time, and generally I buy them from Unbox if I can't find the series in HD in the Xbox Live Video Store. (According to Amazon, I've bought some 31 TV episodes--yikes)!. Looking at the "Video Format Details" box at the bottom of the Battlestar Galactica page at Amazon Unbox, all versions are 4:3 "fullscreen" format, and no doubt letterboxed, so you'll have to zoom it to fill a widescreen display. The TiVo versions are at a slightly higher bit rate than the PC ones, 2.8 Mbps versus 2.5 Mbps for the PC, though I don't know that there's any noticeable difference in PQ between the two. My PC is a Media Center-oriented laptop that I use my 46" 1080p LCD panel as a monitor for (WMP on it responds to IR remote commands that I have programmed into my universal), so it doesn't much matter to me whether I watch either the PC or TiVo versions, though I've developed a slight preference for TiVo--not quite sure why.

Thanks for the answer and the specifics. My Q6600 desktop PC is used for video editing and as an HTPC for our 720P DLP driven 100" screen (which we happily sit 10' from). Love modern technology. :)

It sounds as though Unbox might be the way to go for us. Our phone system has been promising DSL in our area for many years and they finally put the gear in place last month. We're just waiting for them to connect us. We have been scrambling each week to see the BSG episodes. We might be reduced to episodes on SCIFI.com on a workplace 'puter for a couple of episodes. :o It's doable.
I was going to go cold turkey until the DVDs come out however, my interest level is too high to just quit.

And I would miss reading what people here have to say. Only a show as smart as BSG would spawn a thread as readable as this.

Now back to that regularly scheduled thread . . .

I thought this was confirmed a long time ago in "The President's Analyst."

jdg
Yes, but they were much more limited as they could only travel as far as the cable jack that went into their foot permitted.

Wow, long time since I've thought about that film.

And talking about scene stealers, Godfrey Cambridge just walked away with that film.

_______________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

I buy television episodes when I miss recording one from time to time, and generally I buy them from Unbox if I can't find the series in HD in the Xbox Live Video Store. (According to Amazon, I've bought some 31 TV episodes--yikes)!. Looking at the "Video Format Details" box at the bottom of the Battlestar Galactica page at Amazon Unbox, all versions are 4:3 "fullscreen" format, and no doubt letterboxed, so you'll have to zoom it to fill a widescreen display. The TiVo versions are at a slightly higher bit rate than the PC ones, 2.8 Mbps versus 2.5 Mbps for the PC, though I don't know that there's any noticeable difference in PQ between the two. My PC is a Media Center-oriented laptop that I use my 46" 1080p LCD panel as a monitor for (WMP on it responds to IR remote commands that I have programmed into my universal), so it doesn't much matter to me whether I watch either the PC or TiVo versions, though I've developed a slight preference for TiVo--not quite sure why.

The Unbox Season 4 PC episodes are 16:9 at 720x408. They convert very nicely to DVD-Video with the right tools. Watching them, converted to DVD-Video, on my 52" monitor they are nearly free of artifacts, but due to the low bitrate they do look a tad soft. Still, far better than the average download quality and easily better than trying to watch the 4:3 SD versions as broadcast on Sci-Fi channel.

So it's not as good as a DVD recording from the HD channel, but much better than the SD channel.

Xena? I thought her name was Lucy....

Ooops, Lucy it is.
Sorry. :o

Adama was really unbelievably cruel when he said to Roslyn, "You're just worried that your own death will be as meaningless as everyone else's." (Or something close to that.) I just thought, wow, that was really mean, even considering what she had been saying to him, which was to try to get him to open his eyes. Then when she saw that her hair was starting to fall out and broke down....powerful stuff. As was Lee's farewell.

Excellent episode.

Adama was really unbelievably cruel when he said to Roslyn, "You're just worried that your own death will be as meaningless as everyone else's." (Or something close to that.) I just thought, wow, that was really mean, even considering what she had been saying to him, which was to try to get him to open his eyes. Then when she saw that her hair was starting to fall out and broke down....powerful stuff. As was Lee's farewell.

Excellent episode.

She was trying to open his eyes but he was also condemning his overall trust in people over god(s)...and Adama REALLY did not like that. He's all about family and he's all about his crew and definitely believes more in them than some God(s) he cannot see with his own eyes...great storyline IMO.

Human copy I could buy. Baltar as a Cylon, no. If he were a Cylon, he would have resurrected at some point (hiding behind a girl during a nuclear blast that destroys your house and the girl is not a sufficient "duck and cover"). If he resurrected, the Cylons would know, unless......
I never understood how he could have survived that.

At one time or the other, they have dropped hints about many of the characters being cylon. I just hope it is not someone out of the blue.
It will be Boxy. He was in the miniseries, remember? :)

Adama was really unbelievably cruel when he said to Roslyn, "You're just worried that your own death will be as meaningless as everyone else's."

Bah, she deserved it. She started in on him for no reason, he let it be known that he didn't appreciate it, and she just wouldn't let it go.

I was hoping he was going to walk over their and slap her right in the face. That broad has been getting on my nerves since the end of the first season.

I wanna pitch my theory...

"Virtual Baltar", the one Baltar sees himself anyhow, is the Cylon God speaking directly to him.

That makes sense to me. If Baltar ever saw God, he would expect Him to look just like him.

(There's a great joke in 24 Hour Party People (http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0274309/) along this line.)

Bah, she deserved it. She started in on him for no reason, he let it be known that he didn't appreciate it, and she just wouldn't let it go.

I was hoping he was going to walk over their and slap her right in the face. That broad has been getting on my nerves since the end of the first season.

You're advocating that the hero of the show hit a woman?

Some men seem to have issues with women who express themselves honestly. :rolleyes:

Anyway, Roslin and Adama both hit each other where it hurts emotionally in that scene and I found it riveting and also a bit devastating to watch. It's as if these people (not just Roslin and Adama but almost all of them) are all cracking up from the stress and strain of what they've been through. It's fascinating to watch.

That makes sense to me. If Baltar ever saw God, he would expect Him to look just like him...)

I could buy that (that a "god" entity is talking to him...possibly even God")

The scene from last season with Kara in the cockpit talking to "Leoben" I thought was similar when she said something along the lines of "you're not Leoben", and he replies something like, "I never said I was".

That was a little like the Babylon 5 Za'ha'dum episode with John Sheridan where he meets something or someone bigger than himself, has to face the issue of death, and deal with its consequences.

Kara may not be a Cylon, but she is something more than the Kara that went into the Maelstrom. I've suspected that about Baltar for the longest time. He is not quite as mad or psychotic as some would believe. #6 has changed her story a number of times, but when she said she was an "angel" it got me wondering...

Xena? I thought her name was Lucy....

Perhaps he is thinking of Linda Lovelace. Now, what has he been watching???

Have a couple questions/observations. If you have been using FTL drives for ships to jump around the universe, wouldn't there have been many instances of time inconsistency when one ship goes off on it's way somewhere and then re-connects with other ships sometime later at another location? Also, is the actor who plays Hotdog related to Edward James Olmos?

Yeah, Sheridan with THE first one.
Somethings up with Baltar as he's had 6 on his (and everywhere else) ass from the beginning of course. This season is really twisted.

Also, is the actor who plays Hotdog related to Edward James Olmos?

Yes, he's the yougest son of Edward James Olmos - Battlestar Wiki (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Bodie_Olmos)

You're advocating that the hero of the show hit a woman?

Sorry if I have offended you.

But there have been several violent confrontations between men and women on this show. It wouldn't be the first instance. Hell, it wouldn't even have been the first instance in this particular episode.

Also there is a difference between "speaking your mind" and crossing the line. And she crossed the line. I was happy to see that somebody finally told her off because she's been getting away with crap like that for 3 years now.

Sorry if I have offended you.

But there have been several violent confrontations between men and women on this show. It wouldn't be the first instance. Hell, it wouldn't even have been the first instance in this particular episode.

Also there is a difference between "speaking your mind" and crossing the line. And she crossed the line. I was happy to see that somebody finally told her off because she's been getting away with crap like that for 3 years now.

Thank you, big angry. I appreciate the response. I'm sorry for lashing out a bit.

I just see it very differently. She was trying to have a reasonable conversation with him, but in his drunkenness, he over-reacted and took it over the line. Yes, I think she hit a nerve when she psycho-analyzed him and his feelings towards Kara, but I don't think she was trying to hurt. She was just trying to get him to understand her position. He, on the other hand, meant to hurt her.

Everyone on this show has been getting away with a lot of stuff for a long time. I just bristled a bit because you seem to focus on Roslin's brutal honesty as if it's worse than anyone else's sins.

I just bristled a bit because you seem to focus on Roslin's brutal honesty as if it's worse than anyone else's sins.

Hey, if you want I can talk all about the other characters on this show that aggravate me at times.

-Lee.......well, Lee's pretty much just a total sissy douchebag. And the emo hair makes him look like even more of a fool.

-Helo annoys me with all his "I'm a man of conscience" crap. I mean, think about it, the guy sabotaged a mission that could've ended the Cylon threat forever, just because he couldn't get past his own selfish conscience. Congratulations moron, you just condemned your entire race to even MORE suffering. Good job.

-Starbuck......well, do I really need to explain? Enough with all the angst and self-doubt. If I wanted to see yet another incarnation of Pacey Witter I'd just borrow the wife's Dawson Creek box sets.

-Dualla. All the time with the crying. Enough already.

I think you see the pattern. :)

I thought that he was just being brutally honest in return--she is very much concerned that her death be meaningful, that she be the person to lead the people to Earth before she dies, fulfilling the prophecy of the scriptures.

I thought that he was just being brutally honest in return--she is very much concerned that her death be meaningful, that she be the person to lead the people to Earth before she dies, fulfilling the prophecy of the scriptures.

I agree with this. That was the way I took it. They both said things about each other that might have been intended to both hurt and to show them why the other thought they were acting a certain way.

I'm definitely getting a vibe off Roslin right now that she feels she is the only one who can lead them to Earth as that is the reward she gets for dying for the human race, therefore Starbuck has to be a cylon. And I think Adama was pointing that out.

I think you see the pattern. :)

:D OK, OK! I get it. LOL


michaeltscott, I completely agree he was being brutally honest. But I thought the difference was his intent was to lash out and hurt her. But you know, in the end, she'll get over it. One thing about Roslin, she's a tough "broad". :) She's had worse done/said to her, I'm sure.

Hey, I'm an equal opportunity hater.

Actually I think my favorite characters on the show are Tigh and Cavil. Maybe that says something about me personally. :eek:

Anyone question why Roslin didn't get another shot of cylon blood from Sharon (before Sharon found out that Roslin hid her baby)?

Perhaps he is thinking of Linda Lovelace. Now, what has he been watching???

...snip...

Really....is Lucy Lawless that different from Linda Lovelace. If you say them real fast, they sound just alike. :D

It will be Boxy. He was in the miniseries, remember? :)

I'm betting on the little girl on the garden ship, that got torpedoed in the pilot, who kept saying Caprica like paprika. Would best the best WTF moment in the history of TV. Millions of TVs would have to be replaced nationwide as people hurl objects at them. Might be the best way to get the US economy booming again.

That makes sense to me. If Baltar ever saw God, he would expect Him to look just like him.

Oddly, my line of thought is that the Cylon God is probably acutely aware of this fact. If you follow the theory that both Starbuck and Baltar are pawns of the Cylon God, then you can also argue that CyGod is stringing them each along in the way most appropriate to their personalities. Starbuck is a serious oppositional defiant personality, so CyGod goes that way with her. Baltar is an overt narcissist, so CyGod plays that.

If you have been using FTL drives for ships to jump around the universe, wouldn't there have been many instances of time inconsistency when one ship goes off on it's way somewhere and then re-connects with other ships sometime later at another location?

This presumes that whatever the dynamics are behind the FTL that it does not compensate for time dilation.

Considering the FTL is likely a product of military technology with commercial applications, and also considering their constant insistence that it take massive calculations to use the FTL, it's probably fair to assume that whatever issues there were with time have since been worked out. Or the simpler theory: their FTL technology somehow skirts the whole time-space thing, and that whatever happened to Starbuck was just spooky.

Actually I think my favorite characters on the show are Tigh and Cavil. Maybe that says something about me personally. :eek:

It only says that you get the show and the best actors and characters.

Tigh is a gimme. He's the deepest character on the whole show. It's the kind of role an actor prays they get at least once. Especially after season three (for all my bellyaching about S3, I concede that fleshing out Tigh was a huge boost for the show).

Cavil is the character that impresses the most because you can tell that Cavil is a character Dean Stockwell upgraded and made amazing.

I also think Cavil is enjoyable because he's the only one of the Cylons who is at once very cool and stays on topic. The black guy and the dweeb are OK, but the show never fleshes either of those characters out.

Every now and then you watch a show and you can spot a character who actually got more air time because the actor involved took the character a step above what the writers intended (Doc Connell is another on BSG).

Also, Cavil is the only one of the Cylons that actually makes you appreciate the Cylon view of the problem at hand. In fact, he's the only who seems aware that at some point in the distant past the Cylons in fact did have a frakkin plan!

FWIW, I love that the writers are indulging in all this fun with the dilemmas they've created. So many shows languish and boo-hoo and pitter patter around their characters. Having a definite end date for the show has allowed the writers to have fun.

It's a beautiful thing, especially after some of those shallow patches is S2 and S3. 18 more episodes of this much fun and my brain might explode.

Anyone question why Roslin didn't get another shot of cylon blood from Sharon (before Sharon found out that Roslin hid her baby)?She didn't get the first shot of blood from Athena--she got it from Hera. Who knows whether any further blood from her would have helped.

It only says that you get the show and the best actors and characters.



Well, either that or I'm a grumpy old fart with an ironic sense of humor and a drinking problem.

But I'll take the compliment, too. :)

Really....is Lucy Lawless that different from Linda Lovelace. If you say them real fast, they sound just alike. :D

Lucy Lawless is alive.

(the actress behind) Linda Lovelace is not. (No joke...look it up)

Big difference......

Anyone question why Roslin didn't get another shot of cylon blood from Sharon (before Sharon found out that Roslin hid her baby)?

As already mentioned, it was Hera's blood. But I think the intent there was that they used fetal stem cells from Hera. Therefore, Hera's blood wouldn't do Roslin any good now.

Hey, I'm an equal opportunity hater.

Actually I think my favorite characters on the show are Tigh and Cavil. Maybe that says something about me personally. :eek:

Tigh is definitely one of my favorite characters. Probably in the top 4 or 5. I love him!

As already mentioned, it was Hera's blood. But I think the intent there was that they used fetal stem cells from Hera. Therefore, Hera's blood wouldn't do Roslin any good now.
<snip>

Baltar claimed that since the Cylons tried to avoid human susceptibility to diseases, their "blood" had the highest concentration of "antigens", and since Hera was half-cylon, her blood was virtually chock-a-block with antigens. So, her blood cured Roslin's cancer.

If there was ever a mention of stem cells, I don't quite remember, and it wouldn't be useful to Roslin now. But, if as I remember, it was the antigens in Hera's blood that cured Roslin's cancer, we are not given a reason why it wouldn't work again.

I believe the reference to stem cells was actually in the Ron Moore podcast. I can't remember exactly how he put it, but he indicated that was the message they were kind of going for, but didn't say it in the show.

I'm one of those people who believes you shouldn't have to listen to podcasts to understand a show. However, there it is, and once I heard that, I guess I just incorporated it into the show.

Regardless, it is a reasonable explanation for why they aren't using Hera's blood again. Even though Sharon and Helo are angry at Roslin for what she did, they don't seem like the types who would withhold a cure and let her die out of spite.

Hey, if you want I can talk all about the other characters on this show that aggravate me at times.
-Lee.......well, Lee's pretty much just a total sissy douchebag.
-Helo annoys me with all his "I'm a man of conscience" crap.
-Starbuck......well, do I really need to explain?
-Dualla. All the time with the crying. Enough already.

Alright, well- here's one for you.....
You're trapped on a Cylon Base Ship, in a long corridor with no escape routes except straight ahead or straight back. Only problem is there are half a dozen Centurions approaching from ahead, and the same number of armed skin jobs approaching from the rear. You're going to have to fight your way out. You're armed, you have your choice of any character from BSG to be your partner to try to get out of this situation... who would you choose to cover your back?

For me, it's an easy choice.... Starbuck! Why?, because she just hates the Cylons more than anyone else and in the end you know if she's going down... she's going to do whatever it takes to take out as many of those frakers as she can :D

Baltar claimed that since the Cylons tried to avoid human susceptibility to diseases, their "blood" had the highest concentration of "antigens", and since Hera was half-cylon, her blood was virtually chock-a-block with antigens. So, her blood cured Roslin's cancer.

If there was ever a mention of stem cells, I don't quite remember, and it wouldn't be useful to Roslin now. But, if as I remember, it was the antigens in Hera's blood that cured Roslin's cancer, we are not given a reason why it wouldn't work again.Actually, it was a lack of antigens that was remarkable. The actual factor that cured the cancer was never identified--it's possible effectiveness as a cancer treatment was just a hunch on Baltar's part (that he first tested on some of Roslin's cancer cells in vitro). From a transcript of "Epiphanies", BSG episode #2.13:
Baltar: Admiral, I must talk to you concerning the cylon child. It seems I may have been...wrong. Very wrong. When I said that Dr. Cottle misinterpreted the fetal blood work--

moments later in sick bay

Baltar: See, I had another look at those samples and I discovered something quite intriguing. Understand, cylon blood is virtually impossible to differentiate from our own. That being said, obviously it has to be slightly different because the cylon is not human, um... if, um... if our blood looks like this... for example. And the cylon's blood looks like this... then it's fair to assume that the cylon human is carrying an amalgam.

Baltar draws some hexagons on an x-ray screen demonstrating.

Adama: Is this a theory or fact?

Baltar: The cylon's fetus contains no antigens. It has no blood type. That's what Dr. Cottle was talking about when he said it was damned odd. Except it's not damned odd, it's astonishing. Now, knowing as we do that the cylons are built slightly better to endure than their human counterparts, I wonder could the cylon blood also be blessed, shall we say blessed, with a heightened resistance to disease? Huh...so.I applied a sample of sharon's fetal blood to some cancer cells I took from the President.

Adama: What am I looking at?

Baltar: Nothing. That's the whole point. The cancer was gone and it was gone within a matter of hours.

Adama: Are you saying you found a cure for the President's cancer?

Baltar: Well, it's untried. It-it's obviously untried and therefore extremely dangerous. But, yes, it's possible. If you abort Sharon's fetus now, you'll never know.

Alright, well- here's one for you.....
You're trapped on a Cylon Base Ship, in a long corridor with no escape routes except straight ahead or straight back. Only problem is there are half a dozen Centurions approaching from ahead, and the same number of armed skin jobs approaching from the rear. You're going to have to fight your way out. You're armed, you have your choice of any character from BSG to be your partner to try to get out of this situation... who would you choose to cover your back?

For me, it's an easy choice.... Starbuck! Why?, because she just hates the Cylons more than anyone else and in the end you know if she's going down... she's going to do whatever it takes to take out as many of those frakers as she can :D

That's easy, I'd take Cylon number 6. Why? First off, no two humans are going to survive a 12 cylon attack. So why not go out with a smile?

Lucy Lawless is alive.

(the actress behind) Linda Lovelace is not. (No joke...look it up)

Big difference......

Weren't there a lot of actors "behind" Linda Lovelace?

Regarding Hera's blood curing Roslin, this is from the Battlestar Wiki:

In the podcast, Ron Moore stated that a longer, more detailed explanation of the curing of Roslin's cancer using fetal hybrid blood was filmed - explaining that it was the fetal blood stem cells from the baby that were the actual cure - but Moore was afraid that this would be seen as technobabble and criticized by fans, so it was edited down to a truncated version. Ironically, this resulted in widespread complaint in critic reviews and fan message boards that there was too little explanation in the final version, and uses made up science in favor of real one.

http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Epiphanies

Alright, well- here's one for you.....
You're trapped on a Cylon Base Ship, in a long corridor with no escape routes except straight ahead or straight back. Only problem is there are half a dozen Centurions approaching from ahead, and the same number of armed skin jobs approaching from the rear. You're going to have to fight your way out. You're armed, you have your choice of any character from BSG to be your partner to try to get out of this situation... who would you choose to cover your back?

For me, it's an easy choice.... Starbuck! Why?, because she just hates the Cylons more than anyone else and in the end you know if she's going down... she's going to do whatever it takes to take out as many of those frakers as she can :D
Well, based upon what I've learned from the action film genre, the very first thing I'd do is shoot the hostage, no matter who it might be! :p And for a partner, well the best choices would probably be Starbuck (super-bitch), Tigh (tough old bird) Helo (big mofo) or The Old Man. But ultimately I'd pick Teal'c. :cool:
Weren't there a lot of actors "behind" Linda Lovelace?
In a movie entitled DEEP THROAT, uhh probably not. ;)

_______________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

But ultimately I'd pick Teal'c. :cool:


Indeed!

Regarding Hera's blood curing Roslin, this is from the Battlestar Wiki:

In the podcast, Ron Moore stated that a longer, more detailed explanation of the curing of Roslin's cancer using fetal hybrid blood was filmed - explaining that it was the fetal blood stem cells from the baby that were the actual cure - but Moore was afraid that this would be seen as technobabble and criticized by fans, so it was edited down to a truncated version. Ironically, this resulted in widespread complaint in critic reviews and fan message boards that there was too little explanation in the final version, and uses made up science in favor of real one.

http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Epiphanies

Made up science? I am willing to let this one slide, considering we are talking about blood from made-up characters called cylons. Despite what some may think, these things don't really exist in real life. And since there really are no cylons, the writers can do whatever they want with their blood without explanation.

Made up science? I am willing to let this one slide, considering we are talking about blood from made-up characters called cylons. Despite what some may think, these things don't really exist in real life. And since there really are no cylons, the writers can do whatever they want with their blood without explanation.

I agree. And this is the perfect example of why writers/producers should just tell the story they want to tell and not worry so much about what the fans will think. If the story is good, we'll be fine with it.

Alright, well- here's one for you.....
You're trapped on a Cylon Base Ship, in a long corridor with no escape routes except straight ahead or straight back. Only problem is there are half a dozen Centurions approaching from ahead, and the same number of armed skin jobs approaching from the rear. You're going to have to fight your way out. You're armed, you have your choice of any character from BSG to be your partner to try to get out of this situation... who would you choose to cover your back?

For me, it's an easy choice.... Starbuck! Why?, because she just hates the Cylons more than anyone else and in the end you know if she's going down... she's going to do whatever it takes to take out as many of those frakers as she can :D

Ah, since it looks like we're gonna die anyway, I'd just as soon spend my last few minutes alive with Racetrack. :cool:

Made up science? I am willing to let this one slide, considering we are talking about blood from made-up characters called cylons. Despite what some may think, these things don't really exist in real life. And since there really are no cylons, the writers can do whatever they want with their blood without explanation.
That's a prime recipe for bad sci-fi fiction. Good sci-fi fiction should stretch - or break - only a few rules in order to set up a world view, and it should remain consistent within the bounds of that world view. If writers start taking too many liberties within that framework then any unlikely event can be explained away as "magic". That quickly leads to implausible story lines and a bad story.

The "Razor" episode provided a lot of the back story for how the biological cylons came into being - they were created from experiments on humans. Improving on the original design by fine-tuning the blood composition isn't all that unlikely, given that base assumption.

Tony

That's a prime recipe for bad sci-fi fiction. Good sci-fi fiction should stretch - or break - only a few rules in order to set up a world view, and it should remain consistent within the bounds of that world view.


I disagree.

A number of A. Clarke's books for example, feature outcomes at the extreme edge of the fantastic, even while at first anchoring themselves in some seemingly small expansion of known technology. By contrast, in Star Wars, there is no explanation given to how an ion cannon, or a blaster, or a light saber, or the Death Star works, nor is there any real limit defined to what a person can do with the Force. Far from breaking "only a few rules", such things appear and disappear as necessary to advance the plot or create conflict. In The Matrix, by the end of the trilogy, just about every governing rule over reality is cast aside; a framework is created where all the rules can be re-made to the mind's own image, hence there is no seeming limit to what the two main combatants can do to one another or where their journey will take them.

The key is to define a world view where conflict and character development is possible and sustainable, all other concerns are secondary, as some of the greatest successes in sci-fi will attest.

"Need a clone army? Well, it just so happens there's this planet in the Outer Rim where...."

"Need a clone army? Well, it just so happens there's this planet in the Outer Rim where...."

actually darth sidious had darth tyranus create the clone army knowing they would become his stormtroopers to carry out order 66 in his plan to destroy the republic when he eventually became the emperor.

actually darth sidious had darth tyranus create the clone army knowing they would become his stormtroopers to carry out order 66 in his plan to destroy the republic when he eventually became the emperor.

Sure, the dark side could go through the ropes of slowly raising and developing an army. Or they could clone them in secret. And that made a great deal of sense in a movie that spent fifteen hours dwelling on parliamentary procedure.

I mean, honestly, in SW Ep II, I was waiting for them to make the cliffhanger a frakkin motion to table, so we could come back in Episode III and see whether the motion passed!

How hard would it have been to have had a character come into frame and say, "Palpatine's the new chancellor and he's going to raise an army to fight the rebellion."

Badabing! And then we don't need the cloner planet or the obnoxious 52-hour parliament scene. That would have given us more time to have Yoda fighting. But, you know... parliamentary procedure is teh r0x0rz.

Guh... the real problem with sci-fi is that the premises make lazy, pull a rabbit out of your butt writing too easy.

Someone mentioned the Matrix. Great example of good sci-fi metastasizing into bad sci-fi. By the end the premise of the Matrix was "I can wish a pony and it will appear." OK, fine. Make your pony appear. But, for the love of God do we need two more movies to expand upon the fact you can make a pony appear? Or stop bullets, I guess is what they really said, but making a pony appear would totally impress me more.

Audiences don't ask for much. All we ask is that you lay the groundwork for the big plot twists instead of demanding that we brainlessly accept the twists.

Someone mentioned the Matrix. Great example of good sci-fi metastasizing into bad sci-fi. By the end the premise of the Matrix was "I can wish a pony and it will appear." OK, fine. Make your pony appear. But, for the love of God do we need two more movies to expand upon the fact you can make a pony appear? Or stop bullets, I guess is what they really said, but making a pony appear would totally impress me more.

Audiences don't ask for much. All we ask is that you lay the groundwork for the big plot twists instead of demanding that we brainlessly accept the twists.

Problem with the Matrix is they had too much screen time since WB demanded a trilogy. Reloaded and Revolutions could've been combined into one very good flick without having to cut anything worthwhile.

But that's big Hollywood money for you. I guess.

In The Matrix, by the end of the trilogy, just about every governing rule over reality is cast aside;

In The Matrix, by the end of the trilogy, it was total drek. Not sure why you would use this as any kind of example how to ignore the rules of your own universe. The first movie was great, but it went rapidly downhill.

I never saw the matrix movies as anything other then an action movie with sci fi twists so it never bothered me. If BSG did something similar I would be really frakked off.

I never saw the matrix movies as anything other then an action movie with sci fi twists so it never bothered me. If BSG did something similar I would be really frakked off.

No, no, no, noooooo... The initial premise of The Matrix is very sci-fi. In the best tradition of sci-fi. The great questions of reality, perception, authority, meaning, purpose -- all framed against the quandry of man's creation overwhelming and eventually overtaking him. That is the genuine article when it comes to sci-fi themes.

Compare that to Star Wars, often badly misrepresented as science fiction. Star Wars is actually a heroic myth tale (think Beowulf) masked as a space opera. And the first time you hear the word "midichlorians", you realize that Star Wars was much better off avoiding the urge to be sci-fi anyhow.

Problem with the Matrix is they had too much screen time since WB demanded a trilogy. Reloaded and Revolutions could've been combined into one very good flick without having to cut anything worthwhile.

But that's big Hollywood money for you. I guess.

Yeah, The Matrix was one of the most obvious cases of an unnecessary trilogy being made solely to further monetize the fan base (can you say, "Caprica"?).

The worst part was the ending of the first film is perfect. It hints at a revolution. It obviates that the hero has attained his maximum powers. And then it goes to black. One assumes massive quantities of kicking ass and taking names ensues thereafter. The End.

On the flip side, those films made serious bank. So, the profit motive wins that round of the argument. In a world where someone thought three more Die Hard films were worthwhile, it is hard to fight the profit motive.

No, no, no, noooooo... The initial premise of The Matrix is very sci-fi. In the best tradition of sci-fi. The great questions of reality, perception, authority, meaning, purpose -- all framed against the quandry of man's creation overwhelming and eventually overtaking him. That is the genuine article when it comes to sci-fi themes.



I remember laughing my ass off when universities had classes on the matrix. I laughed even harder when those people who had taken the classes were pissed at the second and third movie. Something that seems deep on first look but when you look closer there is nothing. Matrix story line was a rehashing of many anime and generic sci fi themes in a setting that main stream audiences would tolerate.

Don't get me wrong I really like sci fi and weird stuff PKD Heinlein etc. I just never saw matrix that way.

I am totally with you on star wars no sci fi there at all.

Yeah, The Matrix had no need for sequels, the point at the end of the first movie was he could do anything in/to "The Matrix", then in the sequels he no longer could. Blech.

Anyway, I think BSG has done a good job with the balancing of SciFi and how some of the characters believe in a higher (magical) power.

Yeah, The Matrix had no need for sequels, the point at the end of the first movie was he could do anything in/to "The Matrix", then in the sequels he no longer could. Blech.

Anyway, I think BSG has done a good job with the balancing of SciFi and how some of the characters believe in a higher (magical) power.

You hit the nail on the problem (for me) with the Matrix. Neo becomes "enlightened" at the end of 1, then isn't as all powerful as he should have been in the other 2 - in the Matrix.

And perhaps I just missed the whole point of the Matrix (and maybe because I fell asleep when the old dude was trying to explain it all to Neo), but did they ever explain how Agent Smith was able to enter into the real world? I SUPPOSE it could be explained that he re-wired the dude's brain while the brain was plugged into the Matrix, allowing the dude to act as a "machine" for Agent Smith's conciousness. OK - that I can buy, I guess.

But then how is it that Neo has powers in the real world??? Made not a lick of sense.

I had it all set up in my mind that the Matrix had multiple levels of entrapment. The real world was not the real world at all, but just another level of the Matrix, and the Matrix was something far more sinister than merely machines using people as batteries (of course, I couldn't think of a good way that it could be more sinister, I figured the writers, being much more clever than I, would come up with something good.)

Instead of walking out of 3 feeling pumped (like I walked out of 1), I felt horrendously depressed.

Whoops. Sorry for the threadjack. What were we talking about again?

For the first Matrix, the creators had an original concept that was mind-blowingly different but almost made sense. Then the movie was a hit and the studio wanted more and were willing to pay a bundle for it. I don't think the creators were expecting that and just went on a 3-day party binge (for inspiration) and wrote the next 2 movies in a couple of hours!

The battle for Zion was cool and could have been its own separate movie, the rest of the stuff was Bleh! After #2, I didn't really care (or was to confused to care) what happened to Neo, the Matrix, etc. And the whole writhing around/dancing sequence was too much!

Back to the subject...I think its a very fine line that Sci-Fi writers tread. They should be able to create things that are not possible in the "real" world and shouldn't have to try to explain them, like flying cars and light sabers. However, they can't be lazy and just come up with some fantastic thing out of the blue to save the heroes at the end, and they have to be consistent in their creations.

I'm happy with the first 2 episodes of BSG so far. I'm glad Adama set Starbuck off on her mission. I was getting tired of Starbuck throwing her tantrums everytime they made an FTL jump.

I'm glad Adama set Starbuck off on her mission. I was getting tired of Starbuck throwing her tantrums everytime they made an FTL jump.

Same here, sort of like 'okay, we get it already.'

Back to the subject...I think its a very fine line that Sci-Fi writers tread. They should be able to create things that are not possible in the "real" world and shouldn't have to try to explain them, like flying cars and light sabers. However, they can't be lazy and just come up with some fantastic thing out of the blue to save the heroes at the end, and they have to be consistent in their creations.

In fairness, that takes us all back to Arthur C. Clarke, and his point that any technology sufficiently advances is indistinguishable from magic.

In all fairness, sci-fi isn't the only genre where this sort of thing happens. How many cop shows try on the last three minute twist where some side character in the episode was the real killer? It was the suspect's friend who they interviewed 22 minutes ago!!! Sure.

But, that's OK, because if you add cops, audiences will go along with anything. Just look at the establishing sequence in The Matrix. Why were people good with a chick in leather running up walls? Because there were cops in the scene. Come on, it's not even possible to run in those outfits! Add cops and all is well.

My apologies... I couldn't resist needling The Matrix one more time. It's just so hard to wait til Friday.

Just commenting about what Tricia Helfer said to Jay Leno last friday, that the show was realistic and simulates our current living or something like that, just Humans Vs. Robots, could reflect current events like the Gulf War..

and "Captain Kirk met number 6"... nice... (Shatner's wife was on the green room so he couldn't flirt much LOL).

Just commenting about what Tricia Helfer said to Jay Leno last friday, that the show was realistic and simulates our current living or something like that, just Humans Vs. Robots, could reflect current events like the Gulf War..

and "Captain Kirk met number 6"... nice... (Shatner's wife was on the green room so he couldn't flirt much LOL).

The whole New Caprica storyline parallels the Gulf War (past and present), and many other stories in BSG mirror everyday life ver closely. Space Opera, indeed.

On Leno's show, Shatner almost came off as Denny Crane personified.. you know in the "mad cow afflicted" sense. Poor Shat. But he is a real hoot.. that's what he is ! :D

Tricia almost seemed anorexic, yet beautiful somehow.

While I can agree with BSG having established certain premises to work within, I just find the policing of plot and story to match prop and costume too pervasive among much sci-fi (Star Trek, for example), to the point where the inevitable departure from logic that almost every fantasy (sci-fi included) must take is only exacerbated and magnified.

If Sci-fi is to address those important unknowns that I think we all feel are in the best traditions of Sci-fi (consciousness, morality, human dignity?, life, the divine), then departures from our own internal logic, or that which we project onto the story by our observance/evaluation, can become necessary and fruitful.

In the case of BSG, I am hoping that whatever final reveals are to be offered as to the nature of the journey, the Cylon histories, consciousness sharing, or human evolution, that they are not so married to data bitrates and speed of an FTL engine that they become mundane. I want the Cylon to commune with the divine in an unforeseeable way. I want them to march beyond the confines of their metal skin in a way not possible to us fleshlings. In a way, the more the authors show us of the Cylon way of life, the less the Cylon represents to me. Perhaps there is some beauty in making them almost completely human, in that they share in our failings, our joy, and our misery, but in the end, I'm more interested both in how they have surpassed us, and how they have failed to surpass us, and the mystery that remains to separate us from them. I applaud the authors' use of the cylon to teach us about ourselves...but in the end, if they do not differ in some fundamental way, then the outcome becomes more morality play than true Sci-fi, in that new ground is not really covered. I want my sci-fi to hint at what's beyond the cave, not re-iterate what the walls feel like.

BSG has all the great underpinnings necessary. I'm almost breathless to see whether they can tie all this together in a way that does justice to the premise they've set up.

While I can agree with BSG having established certain premises to work within, I just find the policing of plot and story to match prop and costume too pervasive among much sci-fi (Star Trek, for example), to the point where the inevitable departure from logic that almost every fantasy (sci-fi included) must take is only exacerbated and magnified.

If Sci-fi is to address those important unknowns that I think we all feel are in the best traditions of Sci-fi (consciousness, morality, human dignity?, life, the divine), then departures from our own internal logic, or that which we project onto the story by our observance/evaluation, can become necessary and fruitful.

In the case of BSG, I am hoping that whatever final reveals are to be offered as to the nature of the journey, the Cylon histories, consciousness sharing, or human evolution, that they are not so married to data bitrates and speed of an FTL engine that they become mundane. I want the Cylon to commune with the divine in an unforeseeable way. I want them to march beyond the confines of their metal skin in a way not possible to us fleshlings. In a way, the more the authors show us of the Cylon way of life, the less the Cylon represents to me. Perhaps there is some beauty in making them almost completely human, in that they share in our failings, our joy, and our misery, but in the end, I'm more interested both in how they have surpassed us, and how they have failed to surpass us, and the mystery that remains to separate us from them. I applaud the authors' use of the cylon to teach us about ourselves...but in the end, if they do not differ in some fundamental way, then the outcome becomes more morality play than true Sci-fi, in that new ground is not really covered. I want my sci-fi to hint at what's beyond the cave, not re-iterate what the walls feel like.

BSG has all the great underpinnings necessary. I'm almost breathless to see whether they can tie all this together in a way that does justice to the premise they've set up.

Here's to hoping that they live up to your expectations...an interesting ending indeed!!

BSG has all the great underpinnings necessary. I'm almost breathless to see whether they can tie all this together in a way that does justice to the premise they've set up.

So say we all. I can't think of another show with the potential to say something important about existence. I really enjoy where my mind goes during some of the episodes.

BTW: Loved The Matrix and thought (as did many others) it was complete "as-is". For me a movie succeeds if the ending can give your mind fodder for future events. They went way too far in over-explaining what the original film implied so beautifully.
That said - I enjoyed watching Reloaded and Revolutions because they were great visual fun and I did enjoy the story. But it was a pale extension of a well told tale.

Dark City is quite a good story as well. Good thing it didn't do well or its impact would also have been diluted with sequel-syndrome.

It's a subtle thing and perhaps not even accurate... but in my mind I think of SciFi and Science-Fiction.

Science-Fiction is a more-or-less true/realistic story with perhaps some advanced form of science that we have not yet developed. Science-Fiction can be set in the future or another planet or whatever... but by and large it should abide by the known laws of physics, etc... but can introduce something new (like faster-than-light travel) if handled realistically.

SciFi, on the other hand, is permitted to wander more into the fantasy realm... and while it may be grounded in some scientific fact it can also be more or less magical or not-explainable to a degree.

I'm hard pressed to come up with a few good examples for both genres... but I know 'em when I see 'em.. and I tend to classify movies in one or the other depending upon how much they stray from believable reality.

It's a subtle thing and perhaps not even accurate... but in my mind I think of SciFi and Science-Fiction.

Science-Fiction is a more-or-less true/realistic story with perhaps some advanced form of science that we have not yet developed. Science-Fiction can be set in the future or another planet or whatever... but by and large it should abide by the known laws of physics, etc... but can introduce something new (like faster-than-light travel) if handled realistically.

SciFi, on the other hand, is permitted to wander more into the fantasy realm... and while it may be grounded in some scientific fact it can also be more or less magical or not-explainable to a degree.

I'm hard pressed to come up with a few good examples for both genres... but I know 'em when I see 'em.. and I tend to classify movies in one or the other depending upon how much they stray from believable reality.

I wouldn’t let the failing of a corporate medium known as the Si Fi channel change the meaning and bastardize the language any further. Battle Star is a most pleasant accident on that channel, but science fiction is science fiction and will always be that way.

Canadian and British influences aside.

Isn't Sci-fi short for Science Fiction? so they are the same! LOL

I tried to get involved with this show, but I fail to see the point in using the word "frack" in every other sentence. It seems childish at best.

I tried to get involved with this show, but I fail to see the point in using the word "frack" in every other sentence. It seems childish at best.

If that small a thing can distract you from all that's going on in the BSG universe, you are missing the trees for the forest.

I tried to get involved with this show, but I fail to see the point in using the word "frack" in every other sentence. It seems childish at best.I'll never understand the people who have a problem with this. In my mind, I replace it with the forbidden-on-TV anglo-saxonism that it's obviously standing in for and its use seems perfectly natural in the situation. I know people who use the "real" F-word with like frequency, and that level of verbal crudity is pretty common among working military crews. There's a reason for the idiom "to swear like a sailor"--most of the characters in BSG are supposed to be sailors/soldiers. I'd especially expect it among people working in a tense, always-on-your-guard, often-under-attack, no-leave-granted-ever situation. Add to this that almost everyone they've that known and loved in their lives is dead and that they can't ever go home again, and they've got ample reason to swear a lot.

Since it's a slang-word, I thought it was "frak!", anyway. But now that we've got that behind us....

At least they didn't resurrect 'Felgerkarb!'

Hey, if you want I can talk all about the other characters on this show that aggravate me at times.

-Lee.......well, Lee's pretty much just a total sissy douchebag. And the emo hair makes him look like even more of a fool.

-Helo annoys me with all his "I'm a man of conscience" crap. I mean, think about it, the guy sabotaged a mission that could've ended the Cylon threat forever, just because he couldn't get past his own selfish conscience. Congratulations moron, you just condemned your entire race to even MORE suffering. Good job.

-Starbuck......well, do I really need to explain? Enough with all the angst and self-doubt. If I wanted to see yet another incarnation of Pacey Witter I'd just borrow the wife's Dawson Creek box sets.

-Dualla. All the time with the crying. Enough already.

I think you see the pattern. :)

Give me Tigh. Wife consorts with enemy. Kills wife. Problem solved. Next...

I guess nobody is going to pickup on the foreshadowing in the last episode. When Rosilyn shot and missed starbuck. She shattered the picture of her and Bill.......you think what Adama did at the end of the episode will have any consequences?

Yeah, that was the sort of "hit you over the head with a big rock" kind of symbolism that BSG usually avoids.

But to answer your question: I would imagine Roslin's not going to be very happy with Adama. Remember how in the Last Supper pic they were positioned on either side of the table.

I tried to get involved with this show, but I fail to see the point in using the word "frack" in every other sentence. It seems childish at best.

Odd to come on and post that in a thread deep about the show itself. But I don't get the sense that you are trolling.

I remember way back when, I thought it was a bit jarring the first time I heard it on the show. Not long after, it became the most natural thing. The great thing is, it is a perfect PG replacement for the F-word. I find myself using it more and more frequently in real life.

I tried to get involved with this show, but I fail to see the point in using the word "frack" in every other sentence.
Others have explained well the reason behind the word: "Frak".

It took a couple of shows into the first season before "Frak" and "Gods" didn't pull me out of the show a bit.
The "Gods" word can still occasionally sound a bit foreign to my ear. Rare though.

It seems obvious that they can; otherwise they would've killed all the skinjobs rather than just the Cavils/Dorals/Simons

Although it seems fairly certain that they're eventually going to turn on the other 3 models at some point.

I felt it was obvious they could tell the models apart, just not individuals within the models. That was how I took what athena told us at least, though I suppose that is never truly clarified.

I felt it was obvious they could tell the models apart, just not individuals within the models. That was how I took what athena told us at least, though I suppose that is never truly clarified.

Maybe the Centurions can scan and recognize a "model-specific" signature.. but it also appears that the skinjobs can recognize individuals among a group.. like how Six and Sharon exclaimed "Boomer!" when one of the eights walked in at the meeting table.

Maybe the Centurions can scan and recognize a "model-specific" signature.. but it also appears that the skinjobs can recognize individuals among a group.. like how Six and Sharon exclaimed "Boomer!" when one of the eights walked in at the meeting table.

Well, if parents can tell identical twins apart.....:D

Of course in "real" life, even identical twins aren't identical (I roomed with one of a pair during college. Couldn't tell them apart at first, but over time it was easy.) Makes me wonder if the models are all grown from the same templates. It isn't entirely clear how they are constructed, grown, or hatched, or incubated.

It would be funny if the Cylons had to wear name tags all the time.

Well, if parents can tell identical twins apart.....:D

Of course in "real" life, even identical twins aren't identical (I roomed with one of a pair during college. Couldn't tell them apart at first, but over time it was easy.) Makes me wonder if the models are all grown from the same templates. It isn't entirely clear how they are constructed, grown, or hatched, or incubated.

Much like twins, who start out genetically the same, it is the life-experience and nature/nurture after that which shapes them. I suspect all of a particular model are grown from the same template, but as each individual goes out on different missions and dies/is reborn, they become increasingly different from that basic template.

I thought this was a great episode as well. I think this is the first time we have confirmation that there is something/one behiond all of the cylons we see today. Dean Stockwell admits that the "creators" (I beleive that is the term he used) set up their society and laid down the ground rules they live by. So the final 5 are perhaps the creators themselves (unlikely IMHO) , a failed batch of skinjobs who escaped/were exiled, or an opposition group set up in contrast to whatever the "first 7" society is supposed to be (my favored interpretation).

Seems like the raiders and centurions were provided to the "First 7" as tools or perhaps enslaved by them early on. I'm am still interested in how they elect leaders amongst themselves and just what it meant that a model voted against their own type.

So I think now that the "first 7" are operating outside their initial intent and the "final 5" are there to reign them in or at least preserve humanity. So who was it who thought of going to Earth? Did Rosalin come up with it herself or was she prompted by that black priestess? Methinks some of that early symbolism and spirituality will come back in a big way.

I'm also thinking that if they do find Earth, it will be a future Earth. I think now that the colonies were formed from our decendents who left the planet and for ehatever reason decided on a Roman/Greek mythology instead of a monotheistic one. So stuff like the space probe represent artifacts from our civilization. Hopefully Moore avoids having the Earth be uninhabitable due to global warming or something and come up with another scenario.

So who was it who thought of going to Earth? Did Rosalin come up with it herself or was she prompted by that black priestess?Adama thought of it. At the end of the mini-series, he needed to give them some sort of hope and he remembered the legend of Earth, the 13th Colony, from the scriptures. He claimed that its location was a closely held military secret that he knew and that he would lead them there. Later, he admitted to Roslin that so far as he knew it was just a myth and that he'd been lying. After that, Roslin started having visions that she would lead them to Earth but wouldn't live to see the end of the journey--these visions were induced by a drug called Chamalla, an herbal remedy that she and her physician had been treating her cancer with, on the off chance that it would help, or at least ease the symptoms. The visions led her to send Starbuck back to Caprica to fetch the Arrow of Apollo and for her to take it to the tomb of Athena in the ancient ruins of Kobol.

Loving this season so far! Buncha Random thoughts:

One thing that’s interesting is that the models that seem to have had the most contact with Humans are also the one’s drifting away from the “plan”, whatever it may be.

I remember seeing Katie in a Halloween movie with Buster Rhymes, wow, how far she’s come! Her performance was top notch these past few episodes.

This seems to be the breaking point of a Cylon Civil war, which should make things interesting to say the least. What’s Boomers motivation for siding with the one’s focused on destroying the humans? Is she bitter about her treatment and what happened on Galatica? It's even funny that their reason for lobotomizing the raiders is for "protection", yet every confrontation so far has been Cylons on the attack, humans on the defensive.... A parallel to American post 911 views on security perhaps?

I’d also have to agree, they’ve very slowly been making Laura into a cold , callous leader, setting us up for something… Anyone else notice how Adama and Roslins characters have been diametrically switching views in their actions and reactions from how they were in the beginning?

I remember the orginal series had that God awful BG 1980, where they found Earth but it was modern day. I am wondering if they do end up finding Earth, will it be modern day, or advanced in the future?

I remember the orginal series had that God awful BG 1980, where they found Earth but it was modern day. I am wondering if they do end up finding Earth, will it be modern day, or advanced in the future?

Don't count out the other possibility loved by sci-fi writers, that they find Earth, but in historic or pre-historic times.

I remember the orginal series had that God awful BG 1980, where they found Earth but it was modern day. I am wondering if they do end up finding Earth, will it be modern day, or advanced in the future?


I'm hoping for the Battlestar "Arch" to crash land on Ancient Earth inhabited by the 12th colonials who had rejected machines and technology.


It only be fitting to wrap up this space drama as an alternative history to where monotheism came from, colonization of earth by humans, the Greek polytheist religion, ancient story’s of spaceships, ect. Almost a reversal of “Stargate”.

“What has happened before will happen again”, and that was our history, and we’re on the brink of creating sentient artificial life yet again, once the warnings have long been forgotten.

Future/Current earth would just be blaaaah, plus us Americans would probably nuke them out of the sky fearing them terrorists or a threat…

I remember the orginal series had that God awful BG 1980, where they found Earth but it was modern day. I am wondering if they do end up finding Earth, will it be modern day, or advanced in the future?

You're a little confused. That was an entirely different series (http://imdb.com/title/tt0080221/) from the original. Awful is too kind a word to describe it.

...or better yet, the humans all die and the skinjobs find earth.

You're a little confused. That was an entirely different series (http://imdb.com/title/tt0080221/) from the original. Awful is too kind a word to describe it.

There is no phrase in the English language to adequately describe how awful that show was.

I so want to forget it ever existed, but people keep bringing it up. :)

There is no phrase in the English language to adequately describe how awful that show was.

I so want to forget it ever existed, but people keep bringing it up. :)

Yes, but the Starbuck episode was excellent, was it not?

Dark City is quite a good story as well. Good thing it didn't do well or its impact would also have been diluted with sequel-syndrome.

I tell ya... every time I look in this thread I find someone who deserves genuine respect for getting what sci-fi can be.

This seems to be the breaking point of a Cylon Civil war, which should make things interesting to say the least.

I just want to know how all this ties in with the original Cylon models as shown in Razor. IIRC, the writers do plan to bring that into play.

I am wondering if they do end up finding Earth, will it be modern day, or advanced in the future?

I'm thinking that they'll find a society somewhat blended between theirs and the culture that the Cylons seem to have now they they are starting to individualize more. The twist would be that this "colony" has been influencing the direction and development of Colonial society. The most probable reason would be to reunite the colonies/tribes, including the Cylons. The Final Five being "agents" from Earth.

There are so many ways that the twist can take place.

My favorite would be if Earth is totally uninhabited (for whatever reason) and neither pure human or pure skinjob can survive due to something in the atmosphere but a hybrid can. So one called Adam (from Adama) and one called Eve (maybe Hethro) are sent to live there. They keep saying that its all happened before and it'll all happen again.

Anyone else notice how Adama and Roslins characters have been diametrically switching views in their actions and reactions from how they were in the beginning?

Yep. This has been going on for a little while now.

At the beginning of the series she was the voice of reason - understanding, willing to listen, willing to hear all sides of an argument. Since, she's become intolerant, inflexible, unwilling to listen to anyone's views except her own. She's become exactly what she accused Adama of being during the show's early episodes.

And now, Adama's becoming more and more what she used to be, more sympathetic, more sentimental. In effect he is now the "nuturer" in a lot of ways.

I suspect this is something the writers have made a conscious effort to do. it's too poetic to be unintentional.

Yes, but the Starbuck episode was excellent, was it not?

Yes. It was the only one I don't mind remembering....however, it was also very sad because it reminded me of how good (being a relative term) the original was compared to the sequel.

On the original series, the Pegasus episode is the one I remember, Lloyd Bridges was awesome.

On the original series, the Pegasus episode is the one I remember, Lloyd Bridges was awesome.

He was, wasn't he.

But I think I like where this series isn't just a refilm of the earlier series.

Anyone interested in doing a survey of what the possible endings are likely to be and then doing a poll?

It can be fun to see just how far off we are. :)

He was, wasn't he.

But I think I like where this series isn't just a refilm of the earlier series.

I think that has to do with the dramatic improvement of CGI as well, in the old series everything was so sterile, and the props were so cheesy, and in this one it has that dark dingy "Star Wars" like feel.

The problem with this series is, sometimes it gets to invovled in sending some sort of political message and forgets to entertain, and well if I am watching a television show on a Friday night, the last thing I want to be thinking about is current events/issues. Granted thats nitpicking.

In the Razor series, did it flashback to the first Cylon war? I saw a brief clip and thats what it appeared to be, if so I may have to get that.

And now, Adama's becoming more and more what she used to be, more sympathetic, more sentimental. In effect he is now the "nuturer" in a lot of ways.

I always thought Adama fit that bill. In point, wasn't that the contrast the writers presented with Cain? That Adama and Cain represent the two main leadership styles (inspire hope, inspire fear).

There are so many ways that the twist can take place.

My favorite would be if Earth is totally uninhabited (for whatever reason) and neither pure human or pure skinjob can survive due to something in the atmosphere but a hybrid can. So one called Adam (from Adama) and one called Eve (maybe Hethro) are sent to live there. They keep saying that its all happened before and it'll all happen again.

Seems like a lot of setup for such an uncomplicated ending. You could have basically ended the show in the middle of season two with that story.

Also, there is an antagonism between the Final Five and the Cylon God that will power the real violence toward the end of the show. At some point the Cylon God is not going to be happy with everyone being so friendly to the Final Five and the humans.

My understanding is that all of this, the dispersal of humanity from Kobol in the first place, begins because the Cylon God wasn't happy with the other gods. One assumes everyone making friends isn't the final outcome.

If there are any clues to be found, don't forget that Head Six told Baltar that he was going to lead the fleet to the end of the human race. Now, sure, the hybrids represent the end of the human race.

I'm rambling... in conclusion, I don't care as long it is bloody.

I also had a thought that maybe the two Cylon babies would become Adam and Eve.

In the Razor series, did it flashback to the first Cylon war? I saw a brief clip and thats what it appeared to be, if so I may have to get that.

Yes,from Bill Adama's point of view. There was a mission at the end of the war that wound up giving hints as to what the Cylons were up to (experimenting with humans). I won't say anything else...go rent/buy Razor, it's worth it.

There are also several 'webisodes' that delve further into Bill Adama's personal life onboard Galactica during the first Cylon war, as well as some combat scenes. You can find those on youtube I believe.

If you have an Xbox 360, the "Razor Flashback" webisodes are available in HD in the Xbox Live Video Store in the "Shorts" section as free downloads.

If you have an Xbox 360, the "Razor Flashback" webisodes are available in HD in the Xbox Live Video Store in the "Shorts" section as free downloads.

which means we can probably find them on ********** somewhere in HD.

Sweet!

/off to search

I also had a thought that maybe the two Cylon babies would become Adam and Eve.

hmmm . . .

...snip...

I'm rambling... in conclusion, I don't care as long it is bloody.

Truth comes out. lol :)

You have to admit, they could come out with several good endings. I only hope that they totally wrap it up and don't leave it open to a sequel. Unfortunately, its more likely they'll do that than not.

If the ending is the destenation and not the journey it will a let down...

Truth comes out. lol :)

You have to admit, they could come out with several good endings. I only hope that they totally wrap it up and don't leave it open to a sequel. Unfortunately, its more likely they'll do that than not.

That's the one nice thing with Caprica as a prequel. It gives them a way to test whether this can be a franchise, while also in no way committing them to an open ending for BSG.

I figure, RDM is going to do the ending he wants. The only he won't do the ending he wants is if his writers shoot it down. He seems to respect his writers enough that he'll go where they go if the passion is there. You gotta respect that.

I mention this because I always though his efforts on DS9 flirted with greatness, but always ended up muddled and disappointing. I think it is very clear that his flight from Star Trek and his eventual hijacking of BSG were products of his need to find the perfect vehicle to tell his stories with the help of a staff that gets and supports what he is doing.

It's clear that RDM's time with Star Trek was never spent among people who got what he was about. It's too bad, because there would probably still be Trek on TV had they had sense enough to go RDM's direction.

DS9 is still one of my top 5 shows ever. Sunday night at 10:30 was the highlight of my week. I would sit down in front of the TV and never take my eyes off the screen.

Yes, it was burdened down by the restrictions of being Star Trek, but in a lot of ways, DS9 had stronger characters than BSG does. I don't know that there have been very many characters in television ever on the level of Quark or even Garak. It was a very unique show. We forget that because these days genre television is everywhere you look, but at the time
DS9 (and later, Buffy) were the only shows around with that kind of character development, layering of plot lines and story arcs.

DS9 is still one of my top 5 shows ever. Sunday night at 10:30 was the highlight of my week. I would sit down in front of the TV and never take my eyes off the screen.

Yes, it was burdened down by the restrictions of being Star Trek, but in a lot of ways, DS9 had stronger characters than BSG does. I don't know that there have been very many characters in television ever on the level of Quark or even Garak. It was a very unique show. We forget that because these days genre television is everywhere you look, but at the time
DS9 (and later, Buffy) were the only shows around with that kind of character development, layering of plot lines and story arcs.

I have to agree with that. In terms of the framework of telling a long-form serial tale, DS9 went where no other Star Trek series had gone before, or since. It was unique in that regard. Even without a strong screen-commanding presence like Patrick Stewart (Avery Brooks always seemed to be an ill fit for the Captain), it was the most interesting, compelling, and intelligent of all the 'Treks; my favorite by far.

Ron Moore was "The Man" behind HBO's fascinating and ambitious 'Carnivale' as well. That man knows how to spin a great yarn, which is why I think 'Caprica' will be another must-see series. I believe he has still another one in development with FOX as well: 'Virtuality'. That concerns me a little as quality tends to suffer when the showrunner is forced to divide his time between multiple projects.

Yep. This has been going on for a little while now.

At the beginning of the series she was the voice of reason - understanding, willing to listen, willing to hear all sides of an argument. Since, she's become intolerant, inflexible, unwilling to listen to anyone's views except her own. She's become exactly what she accused Adama of being during the show's early episodes.

And now, Adama's becoming more and more what she used to be, more sympathetic, more sentimental. In effect he is now the "nuturer" in a lot of ways.

I suspect this is something the writers have made a conscious effort to do. it's too poetic to be unintentional.

....therefore, establishing a parallel wherein Cylons and humans are "influenced" by the other when "mixed" together?? Are we headed for Cylon/human Utopia???? :confused:

Aren't you getting most of this Roslyn Adama swap based on Roslyn getting on Adama's case for ignoring that Starbuck has to be a Cylon and Adama not wanting to accept it.

As the plot thickens we are interested in the final outcome. I just want more scenes from the cylons and not the humans. I think the cylons are what make this show special. As is with every other movie or show, its how good are the vilans that make me interested. My 2 cents!!

As the plot thickens we are interested in the final outcome. I just want more scenes from the cylons and not the humans. I think the cylons are what make this show special. As is with every other movie or show, its how good are the vilans that make me interested. My 2 cents!!

While I thought the cylon scenes in the last episode were very good and the implications were huge, I usually find cylons arguing amongst themselves quite boring. Season 3's entire basestar storyline was really dry, IMO.

I think the cylons are great "villains" (if we can even call them that now), but I believe the key to the series is the interaction the Cylons and Humans have. That's what I'm interested in.

Best ep of the season :D

Um, wow. Further discussion when more have seen it.

Great episode. I had to cover my eyes with my hands when Callie was in the tube before Torey showed up. I couldn't imagine they would show her jetissoning the child...

Anyone else catch the constellation Orion in the scene where the baseships jump in right before they are surrounded and blown up?

Blew me away! Fantastic.

Good episode but I thought last week was better.

I'm guessing that Tory's actions at the end of the episode have more to do with her fear of being discovered. I would hope they didn't just write it off as her fulfilling her programming, that would be pretty lame IMO.

The whole bit with Starbuck and crew on the poopy ship was pretty bad. I guess they had to establish that plot line somehow but it was just so boring.

On another note......Boomer and Cavil.

Ewwww.....

wow, three A+'s in a row! I feel like we're back to season 1, rightfully we should be.

Also LOVED the easter egg in this episode! Did any of you catch it?


weapons locker 1701D...

Well Calley's baby would be another hybrid baby and Torey's programming went off to save the baby at all costs since they think they lost they other one.

This thought came to me and Its so cool I don't know if I should spoilerize but its just speculation but do you think Roselyn will die from breast cancer and reawaken in the resurrection chamber as the final cylon.

wow, three A+'s in a row! I feel like we're back to season 1, rightfully we should be.

Also LOVED the easter egg in this episode! Did any of you catch it?


weapons locker 1071D...

Easter egg how? Certainly not NCC-1701D? Or did you transcribe the number wrong?

Also, I totally think it is programming. Tori kicking ass and taking names? She is a fraking Presidential aide, not a soldier trained in fighting. She knocked Callie half way across the launch tube. Cold blooded too.

I didn't think that the 'humanized' Cylons had greater strength than average humans.
What's up with Tori throwing her through the air?

Why would Roselyn be a cylon zalusky? I thought the reason she shared that dream was because of the cylon DNA inside of her?

All hail Tory! :D

My least favorite episode so far this season, but it was still good. That's about as dark as it gets, and I love dark. I'm just glad to finally be rid of the character I personally found the most annoying.

Lee is so obviously going to be the next President. It's so obvious that I'm now starting to wonder if it will actually happen.

Perhaps this is a stretch, but did anyone else think something in Starbuck's painting looked a bit familiar?

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c90/Etienne_72772/P1050330.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c90/Etienne_72772/Shipoflights.jpg

There's definitely a resemblance. I believe the Ship of Lights-like object in her painting is supposed to represent the comet she saw.

I didn't think that the 'humanized' Cylons had greater strength than average humans.
What's up with Tori throwing her through the air?

They've shown many times that the skinjob cylons are much stronger than humans. At least Six is.

What an episode. Jaw-dropping, really. Kind of a punch in the solar plexus. I watched this one on the streaming SciFi.com feed @ noon. Really didn't matter that much. Pretty riveting.

From the look on her face I would say there is a chance Tory will become to Galactica what Cavil is to the Cylons.

Ron Moore was "The Man" behind HBO's fascinating and ambitious 'Carnivale' as well. That man knows how to spin a great yarn, which is why I think 'Caprica' will be another must-see series. I believe he has still another one in development with FOX as well: 'Virtuality'. That concerns me a little as quality tends to suffer when the showrunner is forced to divide his time between multiple projects.

Moore is talented, but let's not give him too much credit. Daniel Knauf was the writing genius behind "Carnivale". :)

Wow. I had hoped somehow Tyrol and the others weren't really cylons, that there was some other explanation for it all. Seeing Tori give Callie the patent-pending Cylon Super Slap, I finally had give in and face the facts.
Also, I too find the Cylons inner political struggles to be fascinating as hell. Sooo many other writers would be content to leave the Cylons as simple, one dimensional bad guys, who are motivated by nothing more than a desire to kill humans.

So wha-dye miss? :p Just kidding! Looks like this season is going to be an "every single episode will be a crucial puzzle piece" as we count down to the finale (i.e, no filler episodes). :D

Easter egg how? Certainly not NCC-1701D? Or did you transcribe the number wrong?

aye, i did. fixed that now! damn it's late :confused:

Well, we've reached a whole new level with Cylons murdering Cylons. Seems like they are becoming more human as time goes by.

Interesting how Lee has turned from Rosyln's defender to opponent. Great bit of writing. And Ros, from a sympathetic character to a benevolent dictator.

My thought that somehow the final 5 Cylons would have something like a higher moral compass was tossed out the airlock along with Cally.

Perhaps this is a stretch, but did anyone else think something in Starbuck's painting looked a bit familiar?

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c90/Etienne_72772/P1050330.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c90/Etienne_72772/Shipoflights.jpg

Either a big hint, or just a nod to the old series.

However, Starbuck's comment about her being just an "observer" was probably more significant.

My thought that somehow the final 5 Cylons would have something like a higher moral compass was tossed out the airlock along with Cally.

I don't think it's a one-size-fits-all type of deal. Even though they're all final 5 Cylons they still have individual personalites.

I can't see Tyrol or Anders or even Tigh (as messed up as he is) doing that just to keep their secret. I think they're setting up Tory to be the "bad guy" in all of this.

Which makes sense, because her character has virtually no back story whatsoever they are free to do whatever they want with her. Matter of fact I'm pretty sure RDM said on one of the podcasts that they purposely wanted to pick a little-known character as one of the F5 so they would have a "wildcard" element to play with.

My thought that somehow the final 5 Cylons would have something like a higher moral compass was tossed out the airlock along with Cally.

I though the same thing, also she told Cally they were Cylons in every way, when she said that you just knew what was coming, it was like she revealed her true nature before the kill.

I still hope the others are somehow different, but maybe thats what the writers want us to believe, just another layer to make things interesting.

Free will seams to be a theme, so maybe the others will be different.

Comcast really frakked up what was the most important night of BSG yet.. Sci-Fi HD was offline for me, so the frakking DVR did not record shiyat.. then, I quickly scheduled recording the 12.30am showing in HD, and again, zip zero zilch. Scheduled recording on the SD channel at the same time as a backup, and decided to give a 15min delay to skip ads.. and what happens? The frakking HD channel overrides the recording set for the SD channel show, and I lose the first 15mins of the show.. :mad: Frakking Comcast and frakking SA-8600HD DVR !!

I was so fuming with rage that I found Cally irritated me even more. Finally, after Tory bitch-slapped and vented Cally, I felt a sense of contentment. Good riddance of that whiny little beyotch. It almost pleased me as if I vented Comcast and the crappy DVR out of an airlock. :D

Next one up, it's time Anders slapped some sense into Starbuck. Why are they frakking up her character so much? :confused:

What an awesome episode!

Cally didn't just get put in the airlock, she was shot out of one of the raptor tubes. Now that's how you're suppose to do it and wouldn't you know that a cylon would figure it out first. Just gotta love those Cylons.

.........and we have a second Cylon/human hybrid. Do we have a boy and a girl hybrid?

Cally didn't just get put in the airlock, she was shot out of one of the raptor tubes. Now that's how you're suppose to do it and wouldn't you know that a cylon would figure it out first. Just gotta love those Cylons.

.........and we have a second Cylon/human hybrid. Do we have a boy and a girl hybrid?

It's a boy.

...snip...

Next one up, it's time Anders slapped some sense into Starbuck. Why are they frakking up her character so much? :confused:

What an awesome episode!

Hey, it opens the door in part about how the skinjobs are constructed. Maybe their patterns came originally from humans they cloned and then reprogrammed them. Also opens the door to Starbuck dieing and resurrecting in the Cylon resurrection ship and blowing it up.

It's a boy.

Was Sharon's a boy also or a girl?

Was Sharon's a boy also or a girl?

Interestingly, a girl.

So boy and girl cylon/human hybrids. Do we hear Adam and Eve possibilities?

Also, one was fathered by a cylon and the other's father was human, yet the Cylons can't breed between themselves. Gotta have that human gene in there somewhere.

Perhaps this is a stretch, but did anyone else think something in Starbuck's painting looked a bit familiar?

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c90/Etienne_72772/P1050330.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c90/Etienne_72772/Shipoflights.jpg

And those "orbs of light" in the painting look kind of like the, um, orbs of light from the original series as well?

Cally didn't just get put in the airlock, she was shot out of one of the raptor tubes. Now that's how you're suppose to do it and wouldn't you know that a cylon would figure it out first. Just gotta love those Cylons.

.........and we have a second Cylon/human hybrid. Do we have a boy and a girl hybrid?

No Cally figured it out first. The Cylon bitch just carried it through.

Great season so far. Actually is starting to make up for the crappy previous season.

Great season so far. Actually is starting to make up for the crappy previous season.

Actually, I felt season 3 was brilliant and the best so far. Great science fiction holds a mirror up to society and this show has never failed to deliver on that premise. To each his own.

Amazing how this show can just sucker punch you every week. Was Cally going to eject both herself and her baby out the launch tube, or just her hybrid baby? And Tory going full-Cylon on her; a true what the frack! moment. Tyrol is not going to take her "suicide" well. Will this lead to a death struggle between him and Tory? Large and small-scale Cylon civil wars breaking out all over?

And it looks like we're possibly going to get the return of D'Anna, my second favorite Cylon. D'Anna de-boxed!

Moore is talented, but let's not give him too much credit. Daniel Knauf was the writing genius behind "Carnivale". :)

I know Knauf was the showrunner and Big Idea Guy, but I thought Moore headed up the writing staff...? Anyways, he was there scribing away. ;)

And it looks like we're possibly going to get the return of D'Anna, my second favorite Cylon. D'Anna de-boxed!

Only if Six and crew somehow survived the trap. At least that was my take on it.

Only if Six and crew somehow survived the trap. At least that was my take on it.

I wondered if all the "rebel" ships headed by the Sixes were caught in that ambush or are there others out there which would essentially create a civil war situation when they found out about the One's (and Fours and Fives) treachery? Cavell mentioned "millions" of each model, so it's conceivable there are others around who would not be present at the ambush site. And severely displeased will they be. :p

I wondered if all the "rebel" ships headed by the Sixes were caught in that ambush or are there others out there which would essentially create a civil war situation when they found out about the One's (and Fours and Fives) treachery? Cavell mentioned "millions" of each model, so it's conceivable there are others around who would not be present at the ambush site. And severely displeased will they be. :p

Yeah...I was definitely thinking Civil War...which leads to other possibilities of the "Good" (for lack of a better word) Cylons trying to team up with the Humans against the bad Cylons...maybe...

I feel like so much is happening each week, that the only way to fully understand everything will be to go back and watch one episode after another...then you'll see all the patterns...

Looks like I'm in the minority....

While I think this episode did well to advance the plot lines (Tori's acceptance as a Cylon, Lee''s impact on the counsel, Starbuck seeming more and more "resurrected, Cylon civil war) I didn't think it came across as well as with shows from previous seasons. Everything seemed telegraphed and predictable which is not what I've seen in season's past.

* the scene with Starbuck and Adam appeared to come straight from a soap. Overly toned down conversation slowing building up to a screaming match ending with kissing and "fracking." Soon as she started shoving him I knew they'd end up bumping uglies.
* the scene with Lee at the counsel meeting. He gets shot down by the big boss, then counters by dropping a bomb. (course that kind of fuels the theory about Ros and #12 since she appears to be establishing ultimate control)
* Tori & Calli. Just seemed too cliche to have that whole storyline set up so that we never know whether she hallucinating or seeing reality. I did like Tori's character development and how's she's becoming sort of the leader of the 4. But again, this was all telegraphed throughout the last 2 episodes with how she's been acting like a bomb about to go off. The scene of her leaving the meeting let me know right then and there that Calli was a goner.
* Also, the airlock scene. So Calli goes from caring so much about not wanting her and/or her child to have to suffer to handing her child over to one of the last people on the ship she trusts??? Was I the only one who saw what was coming next? (though that was probably the most entertaining part of the episode. Cyclon bitch slap!)
* And the Cyclon trap. Let's just say advanced intelligence does not appear to equal common sense.

I think maybe the absence of Six (Balter's version) over the last few episodes is making me a lil cynical. Just seems like with so many subplots, they aren't able to properly advance each one (ala Lost)

My $.02
Tony

I know Knauf was the showrunner and Big Idea Guy, but I thought Moore headed up the writing staff...? Anyways, he was there scribing away. ;)IMDb gives him writing credit (http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0601822/#writer) for exactly 3 episodes of Carnivàle, all in season 1 (episodes 1.2, 1.6 and 1.12). He has a credit as being one of 3 executive producers of the show for 12 episodes (all of season 1). Daniel Knauf is listed as creator and co-executive producer for all 24 episodes and has some credit for writing of 6 of them (written by, co-written by or teleplay by).

I think maybe the absence of Six (Balter's version) over the last few episodes is making me a lil cynical. Just seems like with so many subplots, they aren't able to properly advance each one (ala Lost)


Let me just say that you're much better at predicting the upcoming action than me. All that stuff that you saw coming blew my imperceptive butt right off the couch. (Which is what I like it to do.) :D

As to all the subplotting, I think they're trying to get all the pieces in place in these first few episodes and then it'll be a rocket ride to the finish. LOST is doing the same thing for their stretch run. Between these two series, 'The Shield' and 'The Wire' finishing, and shows like 'Mad Men' and 'Damages' going into their second seasons, it kind of seems like a new golden era of TV right now.

I think maybe the absence of Six (Balter's version) over the last few episodes is making me a lil cynical. Just seems like with so many subplots, they aren't able to properly advance each one (ala Lost)It's the 3rd episode of the season, she was prominently featured in the 1st one and Baltar was completely absent from this one. With only 44 minutes to work with, I'd really rather that they didn't try to cram something about every subplot into every episode.

IMDb gives him writing credit (http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0601822/#writer) for exactly 3 episodes of Carnivàle, all in season 1 (episodes 1.2, 1.6 and 1.12). He has a credit as being one of 3 executive producers of the show for 12 episodes (all of season 1). Daniel Knauf is listed as creator and co-executive producer for all 24 episodes and has some credit for writing of 6 of them.

You must have seen a truncated listing, IMDBPro shows Knauf wrote all 24 eps with about 6-7 other writers contributing on at most 5 eps a piece.


But anyway, as already noted, that scene with Ros and Adama was the sort of acting you rarely see nowadays, even more amazing is the fact that it was in a TV show. Kudos to the writers, actors, and the crew involved in that scene.

I think maybe the absence of Six (Balter's version) over the last few episodes is making me a lil cynical. Just seems like with so many subplots, they aren't able to properly advance each one (ala Lost)

My $.02
Tony

I have to admit that I vehemently dislike that Balter's 'Six' has been replaced with 'himself'. If for no other reason, in that it throws into even a bigger question as to what Balter's 'aberration' really is, or more importantly... isn't.

h-slapped and vented Cally, I felt a sense of contentment. Good riddance of that whiny little beyotch. It almost pleased me as if I vented Comcast and the crappy DVR out of an airlock. :D

Next one up, it's time Anders slapped some sense into Starbuck. Why are they frakking up her character so much? :confused:



Because it gets you riled up and makes you come back for more. Now thats good writing!

Tyrol is not going to take her "suicide" well. Will this lead to a death struggle between him and Tory? Large and small-scale Cylon civil wars breaking out all over?

He most definitely won't be taking this well, but remember that to him and the rest of the crew, it is a suicide. I'm seeing this as setting up a big confrontation later down the road between tyrol and possibly tigh and tory. Who knows if she went to tigh or not.

Either way, my guess is Tyrol will "outgrow" his programing and jeopardize the cylon mission once he finds out who truely killed his wife.

Boy, this show is really going to frak–up the standard I hold television series to for some time to come. But to rip a theme from the show, ‘its happened before and it will happen again’. Every 5-7 years, a show comes along that yields new fertile ground where none should any longer exist.. Of course, the downside is that everything pales so greatly in comparison, that you don’t want to dilute the experience by watching the sub-par crap that the networks want us to digest as a means of gaining advertising revenue.

So much has occurred in the last few eps, that I feel the need to re-examine last night’s episode before commenting at any length, but it struck me that Tory’s character is developing into some kind of ‘Brood Queen’, a role that up until this point, seemed a more likely fit for someone like Six or Boomer.

Also, has Kara ever look less attractive than she did after frakkin’ Anders in the bunk last night? It couldn’t have been by accident, because they clearly had her lit from underneath to create shadows and make her look like total $h!t in that scene, I don’t know whether it was intended to highlight her mental state, the potential onset of madness, or the hint of a possible cylon tie-in. Maybe that’s why they had those glamour shot attempts pre-season, to offset what a mess they’d eventually be turning Katee into.

As to some of the initial comments…


The whole bit with Starbuck and crew on the poopy ship was pretty bad.
The poopy ship?? C'mon now. :eek: Okay, since there are already 3 threads running concerning BSG in place, when it comes time to launch the BSG jr.thread, you can be the mod. :rolleyes:
On another note......Boomer and Cavil.

Ewwww.....
Big time, particularly because as I've made no secret of the fact that I've planned on making Boomer the next Mrs. Palladin (or at least my main squeeze), for some time now. :cool: Helo and the Chief had their chances and blew it. Now she's mine. ;)

____________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Let me just say that you're much better at predicting the upcoming action than me. All that stuff that you saw coming blew my imperceptive butt right off the couch. (Which is what I like it to do.) :D
And yet.....He keeps calling them cyClons. :eek: Go figure. ;).

Between these two series, 'The Shield' and 'The Wire' finishing, and shows like 'Mad Men' and 'Damages' going into their second seasons, it kind of seems like a new golden era of TV right now.
Hey! Stop steppin' on my lines. That intellectual property has already been copyrighted. :D ;).

______________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

You must have seen a truncated listing, IMDBPro shows Knauf wrote all 24 eps with about 6-7 other writers contributing on at most 5 eps a piece.You have to look closer--they count his role as "creator" as a writing credit for every episode (after all, every episode is based upon his idea and builds on a story that he began). They list him as "Writer (creator)" on all 24 episodes, but I'm only counting the ones where he's "Writer (creator) (written by)" or "Writer (creator) (writer)" or "Writer (creator) (teleplay)". I believe that those six are the only ones where he actually did some work writing.

My interpretation could be wrong :).

EDIT: If you examine the episode credits at HBO's Carnivàle site (http://www.hbo.com/carnivale/episode/season1/episode01.shtml), Knauf is given writing credit for episodes 1.01 "Milfay", 1.02 "After the Ball is Over" (co-written with Moore), 1.08 "Lonnigan, Texas", 2.01 "Los Moscos" and 2.08 "Outskirts, Damascus, NE"; he's further given credit for writing the teleplays of 1.03 "Tipton" (written by Henry Bromell) and 2.12 "New Canaan" (written by Tracy Torme). Slightly surprising since I'd have thought that he'd have agonizingly written the final episode by himself.

Most of the episodes are credited to a single writer (with, as you say, some of them having written 4 or 5 episodes each); one pair, Dawn Prestwich & Nicole Yorkin, are always credited together (they get sole writing credits for 4 episodes and one teleplay writing credit).

On another note......Boomer and Cavil.

Ewwww.....

times 2

I have to admit that I vehemently dislike that Balter's 'Six' has been replaced with 'himself'. If for no other reason, in that it throws into even a bigger question as to what Balter's 'aberration' really is, or more importantly... isn't.

Well, there was that episode a while back where Six broke down laughing and basically told Baltar that she was just a figment of his fractured mind (just before she decided to change her story to being an "angel of god".)

After all this time, we still don't really know what these "buddies" are. After her resurrection, Caprica saw a figment Baltar, Baltar's been seeing Caprica Six for a while, now Baltar is seeing Baltar.

Please pass the Thorazine.

Either way, my guess is Tyrol will "outgrow" his programing and jeopardize the cylon mission once he finds out who truely killed his wife.

And I wonder what their plan is? To protect the humans from Cylon annihilation? Clearly, the rest of the Cylons have no idea what they're up to. Or.... do they? Or rather, do the Ones? Cavell just feels to me like he's knows more about the Final Five than he's let on to the others. D'Anna was getting close to finding out what he knows so he boxed her.

Big time, particularly because as I've made no secret of the fact that I've planned on making Boomer the next Mrs. Palladin (or at least my main squeeze), for some time now. Helo and the Chief had their chances and blew it. Now she's mine. ;)

Who do you think you are? Benjamin Linus? :p

Got another theory about that kiss between Cavell and Boomer. Remember when Six was talking about how the Sharon models (eights) "had always been weak", implying they were too easily able to fall in love and get confused as to their real mission? Well, it could be that's how Cavell turned her to "the dark side". He simply seduced her (he seems to be good at that), and she fell for him. It's her tendency; she was designed to be a sexual infiltrator (the Chief, Helo). She's just predisposed to fall in love and is easily manipulated. Perhaps even you, Palladin, if they make it to present day Earth. Keep the dream alive. :D

Well, it could be that's how Cavell turned her to "the dark side". He simply seduced her (he seems to be good at that), and she fell for him. It's her tendency; she was designed to be a sexual infiltrator (the Chief, Helo). She's just predisposed to fall in love and is easily manipulated. Perhaps even you, Palladin, if they make it to present day Earth. Keep the dream alive. :D

Or "boomer" has some conniving plans of her own :)

After all this time, we still don't really know what these "buddies" are. After her resurrection, Caprica saw a figment Baltar, Baltar's been seeing Caprica Six for a while, now Baltar is seeing Baltar.

Please pass the Thorazine.
:D

Well, I don't know if we can take it as 'canon' (as we are wont to say over in the LOST thread), but the closest thing to a recent possible hint might be the statement during the 'What the Frak is Going on' recap, where the narrator states with regard to Baltar " Now he thinks he sees her [Six] everywhere". Assuming this was reviewed AND sanctioned by the creative team, I would consider 'thinks' to be the operative term, i.e. its all in his head. Of course how or why it got there is a seperate issue. ;)

Who do you think you are? Benjamin Linus? :p
No, No, of course not. But listen, since we're chatting anyway, I think I just saw the tail section of a large plane break off and fall near the edge of the island. Arch, could you do me a favor and get over there right away amd make a list of the people, and generally hang out until we come to get you? :p :D

Got another theory about that kiss between Cavell and Boomer. Remember when Six was talking about how the Sharon models (eights) "had always been weak", implying they were too easily able to fall in love and get confused as to their real mission? Well, it could be that's how Cavell turned her to "the dark side". He simply seduced her (he seems to be good at that), and she fell for him. It's her tendency; she was designed to be a sexual infiltrator (the Chief, Helo). She's just predisposed to fall in love and is easily manipulated. Perhaps even you, Palladin, if they make it to present day Earth. Keep the dream alive. :D
In either case, first thing I'll do is make certain she dips those lips (and any other bodily part Cavell has come in contact with), in a nice hot cootie-cleansing resurrection bath, and then spary her down like they did with Bond and Honey Ryder in Dr. No.

__________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

You have to look closer--they count his role as "creator" as a writing credit for every episode (after all, every episode is based upon his idea and builds on a story that he began).

Makes sense. Bottom line, Daniel Knauf was to "Carnivale" as Moore is to "BG", with Moore being basically hired help on "Carnivale". :D

I'm still pissed HBO dropped that show...

Looks like I'm in the minority....

While I think this episode did well to advance the plot lines (Tori's acceptance as a Cylon, Lee''s impact on the counsel, Starbuck seeming more and more "resurrected, Cylon civil war) I didn't think it came across as well as with shows from previous seasons. Everything seemed telegraphed and predictable which is not what I've seen in season's past.

* the scene with Starbuck and Adam appeared to come straight from a soap. Overly toned down conversation slowing building up to a screaming match ending with kissing and "fracking." Soon as she started shoving him I knew they'd end up bumping uglies.
* the scene with Lee at the counsel meeting. He gets shot down by the big boss, then counters by dropping a bomb. (course that kind of fuels the theory about Ros and #12 since she appears to be establishing ultimate control)
* Tori & Calli. Just seemed too cliche to have that whole storyline set up so that we never know whether she hallucinating or seeing reality. I did like Tori's character development and how's she's becoming sort of the leader of the 4. But again, this was all telegraphed throughout the last 2 episodes with how she's been acting like a bomb about to go off. The scene of her leaving the meeting let me know right then and there that Calli was a goner.
* Also, the airlock scene. So Calli goes from caring so much about not wanting her and/or her child to have to suffer to handing her child over to one of the last people on the ship she trusts??? Was I the only one who saw what was coming next? (though that was probably the most entertaining part of the episode. Cyclon bitch slap!)
* And the Cyclon trap. Let's just say advanced intelligence does not appear to equal common sense.

I think maybe the absence of Six (Balter's version) over the last few episodes is making me a lil cynical. Just seems like with so many subplots, they aren't able to properly advance each one (ala Lost)

My $.02
Tony

There are clearly multiple stories going on. One is the traditional BSG find earth thing and the other a lot of people seem to hate is the immediate despair reaction moments to life's bad things.

This episode had Cally reacting to everything she new as real being destroyed including the knowledge that her child is a half skin job.
How many women feel this today when they realize their husband is gay or cheating. Many look at their well established lives and realize they might have to get a job move from the mansion to the condo, go in to hiding what ever.

Both of those techniques work for me. I always liked Cally and thought she was pretty hot. Just me I suppose.

There are clearly multiple stories going on. One is the traditional BSG find earth thing and the other a lot of people seem to hate is the immediate despair reaction moments to life's bad things.

This episode had Cally reacting to everything she new as real being destroyed including the knowledge that her child is a half skin job.
How many women feel this today when they realize their husband is gay or cheating. Many look at their well established lives and realize they might have to get a job move from the mansion to the condo, go in to hiding what ever.

Both of those techniques work for me. I always liked Cally and thought she was pretty hot. Just me I suppose.

I agree with this - it was good to show what horrible effect finding out about the final four would cause. Too many series (Lost included) glosses over the emotional hit that people would take when horrible stuff happens. My one criticism of Lost this season has been that there has been no lingering emotional reaction by Claire to Charlie's death (although I thought they did a good job with Hurley's reaction...) In Lost time, she is sunnily offering to make tea for Sawyer and Kate a day or two after Charlie dies.