You're still not "getting it", so I'm going to try once more... You're taking the fact that they didn't make the final decision on the Watchtower Four until recently as the basis for a much larger indictment on lack of strategic thinking by Ron Moore and his writers. It's not a valid complaint. Moore knew from the beginning where he was going to take this series (i.e. back to Earth). He probably knew he was going to reveal 7 Cylon models with 5 "sleepers" to form the basis for tying the plotlines together. Certainly, everything seems to be hanging together quite well thusfar. ..Details will and must change and evolve (and I consider the identities of the Watchtower Four to be a detail), whereas the concept of The Final Five, for example, is part of the strategic plan in place from the start...

I don't see a single major plot point for BSG that has been changed because the writers wrote themselves into a corner. The whole glowing spine thing was kinda' silly to begin with since Cylons share human physiology... In summation (whew!), don't mistake the fluid nature of details with strategic planning, or lack thereof. Two different things.

I cited specific Moore statements that supported my specific assertions that he hadn't thought things through. Your response, it's "not a valid complaint."

Moore himself has said that there were now issues presented dealing with Tigh's backstory. Issues presented because of his failure to plan and to establish a credible history throughout the 1st seasons that made the Final whatever a rational selection even if surprising rather than some Deus Ex Machina for "dramatic effect". As I see it, the Final Five's identity is NOT a fluid detail and should have been part of the plan with interesting subtle clues given that were present in retrospect.

Then how did SIx get into Baltar's head?

Sooo back to some pure spectulation

I was thinking What if the final 5 have no "Real/Hard Wired Programming" and they are actually governed by "Free Will" and they just don't know it. So its an experiment/plan to see which "Race" they support, why and how they go about doing it.

reserved right to bashed if this has been said 100 times

Sooo back to some pure spectulation

I was thinking What if the final 5 have no "Real/Hard Wired Programming" and they are actually governed by "Free Will" and they just don't know it. So its an experiment/plan to see which "Race" they support, why and how they go about doing it.



"Free Will" is an interesting spin but why limit it to the final 5? Its apparant that some of the skin jobs have changed the allegances so why not the full 12?

Something else that stands out from the Razor episode is when the young Adama ask the old man laying in the goo who he was and the answer was "some think we're gods." Since its only the human race that think of multiple gods and not the skinjobs, it would seem that these creatures had something to do with the humans existance.

I am thinking perhaps the model numbers are the order they were made (has that ever been stated factually?)

1 - Cavil
2 - Leoben
3 - D'Anna
4 - Simon
5 - Doral
6 - Six
8 - Sharon

If only D'anna had been swapped with doral I could see the order progressing more towards human sympathies as the models were developed, Cavil's being the closest to the cylons with 6 and up being too close to humans for the cylons own liking. Maybe even d'anna at 3 makes sense then since she wasn't really compassionate to humans just really realy curious/obsessed with the ohter 5.

I guess I'm just trying to place some signifigance to the model number order in relation to behaviour.

Leoben seems to have some human sympathies as well, though he has a funny way of showing it. :)

I was hoping Leoben would be #1 since I thought the hybrid in Razor bore some resemblance to him, mostly in the way he spoke. My thought was maybe Leoben was based off of him and he was maybe the first humlon created. But no go on that, I guess.

Hmm perhaps if you take their model numbers to reflect their "age" as siblings etc. (well not 7 9-12, thanks a lot Colonel)

Would certainly seem that the Cavils know things that the others perhaps don't, maybe a result of being around longer? Or having some special place/position in the society.

The Final Five have now been confirmed:

David A
Brooke
David C
Syesha
Jason

The Final Five have now been confirmed:

David A
Brooke
David C
Syesha
Jason

yeah, I watch good television shows, so I don't get this reference..

The Final Five have now been confirmed:

David A
Brooke
David C
Syesha
Jason

huh?

huh?

LOL it's an American Idol reference. They are down to 5.

Guess my joke was too low-brow for you sophisticated types ;)

LOL it's an American Idol reference. They are down to 5.

Ahh, not a reality tv fan...

I'm figuring Colonel Tigh is the "Imperious Leader".:D

They have been building up the whole "One will be revealed" stuff too much I think....such that it needs to be something unexpected and with shock value.

Old Man Adama, Prez, Starbuck, Baltar would hardly qualify as unexpected and in some ways to obvious attempt at shock...thats not really shocking...i seriouslly doubt its any of those.

Then the rest...all rather miner characters...so the shock value is not that great.


I think either Cain or Zak Adama would have the most interesting effect....but they would have to do some clever explaining about the whole resurrection thing.

Zak brings up alot of story potential with how Lee and the Old man deal with it....i thought the scene where Lee tells dad he is going to take a job in gov...and when the talked about "What if Zak was a Cylon" might have been a little forshadowing.

I like BSG but i get the feeling this whole "Final 4 and 5" stuff is last minute and not really planned out that well. Lots of holes...Like how can Tigh be a Cylon when they already established he fought in the first Cylon war...before they had skin jobs?. And then 2 of the four revealed at the end of last season are rather minor characters.

And we saw Tory use super strength.

Tigh is what 65+ years old...The chief has been working as a mechanic...Anders was an athelete....we suppose to believe that never once in their lives did they realize they had ubah strength?

Why does the final cylon reveal have to have a certain amount of "shock value"? Moore has already been on record stating that they have been giving clues as to the identity of the final cylon, so for attentive viewers (which I assume most posters here are), there probably won't be that much shock value.

Moore has already been on record stating that they have been giving clues as to the identity of the final cylon, so for attentive viewers (which I assume most posters here are), there probably won't be that much shock value.
That may well be the case, and I agree that most posters here are attentive viewers, but that sort of begs the dilemma, i.e. if what RDM has stated is true, how can that be reconciled by the diversity of opinions as to that identity, in both the posts and the poll?

Was there any indication by Moore that those "clues" have, in fact, all been provided, as opposed to continuing up to the reveal itself?

____________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Tigh doesn't have to be 65 years old, he just looks that old. However, he does have to be fairly old for how far back there are humans that know him. As for Anders, he was a pro-level athlete and why can't there be some kind of built-in cap to prevent himself from being too strong, so he wouldn't be found out as a Cylon - Boomer didn't go around shooting officers before she was triggered. I could see that maybe Tory now has access to her Cylon side, being she now knows what she is.

Tigh doesn't have to be 65 years old, he just looks that old. However, he does have to be fairly old for how far back there are humans that know him. As for Anders, he was a pro-level athlete and why can't there be some kind of built-in cap to prevent himself from being too strong, so he wouldn't be found out as a Cylon - Boomer didn't go around shooting officers before she was triggered. I could see that maybe Tory now has access to her Cylon side, being she now knows what she is.

I was thinking along these lines as well. They can't use their "cylon" abilities (whatever they are) because they have never known before that they are cylons. It would make sense if there was some kind of mental "cap" as you call it. Tory seems to be the one who is embracing "cylon-hood" and is therefore mentally breaking down this cap.

There is nothing to say Tigh was not caught, killed, later in life. He was/Is a heavy drinker, if he was out on a binge it would have been easy.

Who knew about skin jobs when Caprica was intact?

Tigh doesn't have to be 65 years old, he just looks that old. However, he does have to be fairly old for how far back there are humans that know him.According to the BattleStar Wiki article on him (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Saul_Tigh), Tigh was a grown man who fought in a few years worth of the Cylon War (much longer than Adama, who only flew a single mission before the Armistice). Footnote #3 the Wiki article:
↑ Ibid. "Saul Tigh entered the fleet as a deckhand but rose through the ranks and was a CPO (Chief Petty Officer) by the time the First Cylon War broke out."Apparently he was a CPO when the Cylon war broke out (CPO is the highest non-comm rank in the U.S. Navy, with Master CPO being its highest sub-rank). The Cylon War was 12.5 terrestrial years long (the title of the first Razor Flashback webisode was "Day 4,571" and depicted the night before Adama flew his first and final mission in the Cylon War, which occurred on the last day of the war). Since the Cylon War ended 40 years before the start of the "reimagined series", Saul Tigh acheived the rank of CPO more than 52 years ago. If his backstory isn't entirely fluff, he'd have to be at least 70.

From the Wiki:
Tigh's age is one of the only ones which can be accurately deduced. According to a deleted scene from "Valley of Darkness", he served on the Brenik when it was boarded during the second year of the Cylon War. Tigh says that he was "just a kid. Virgin. Teenager." It is known that Colonial Day is the anniversary of both the unification of the Colonies, and (roughly) the outbreak of the Cylon War (Source: RDM, April 11, 2005), and was 52 years ago (Colonial Day). Thus, Tigh is between 63 and 69 years old at the beginning of Season 2. However, give that he is in fact a Cylon, that is in question as well.That would seem to be in slight disagreement with that footnote quoted above; either that or he rose from deckhand to CPO when he was no older than 17 (to be still a teenager 2 years later).

EDIT: The Battlestar Wiki contains a timeline (here (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Timeline_(RDM)#Recent_Colonial_History)) giving Tigh's age as 69. Of course, all that's just delved from the series, deleted scenes on the DVDs, RDM's podcasts, fan magazine articles, etc.

His point is that you are presupposing a lack of "planning" in BSG that is a subjective opinion lacking any factual support. In fact, a careful viewer can find a number of major plot points as well as supporting details that are revisited even seasons later demonstrating the foresight shown by the showrunner and his staff. They can and do change minor details as they go along as they must, but the overall strategic vision was in place here from the beginning, as it was with LOST. There's a reason these are the two best shows currently running on TV, IMO, and it starts in the Writing Rooms. They have a Plan; oh yes they do.

I think I have noticed in the "Previously on BSG...", scenes that have not been previously shown that lend some clarity to a plot theme that will be addressed in the current episode. Not sure if they are from deleted scenes or are new scenes filmed to reinforce the storyline that subsequently has been left to our reason. I will try to find an example.

....I bet its the writers way of having a joke by having the Cylons say that "something's changed". Writer's probably decided to go off on an unexpected direction. That's the "something changed."

Why does the final cylon reveal have to have a certain amount of "shock value"? Moore has already been on record stating that they have been giving clues as to the identity of the final cylon, so for attentive viewers (which I assume most posters here are), there probably won't be that much shock value.

People just assume so because of the way they hype up the revelation of the final Cylon.

Clues point to Gaeta (look at Boomer right before she shot Adama), or Dee (Dualla), who others say have had some suspicious looks.

Clues point to Gaeta (look at Boomer right before she shot Adama), or Dee (Dualla), who others say have had some suspicious looks.

C'mon now, pappy; you know it was more than just a mere look that raised the flag concerning our gal Dee. ;)

I think Dee would make a lot of sense.

-She screwed up, allowing the Olympic carrier to be left behind in '33'
-She survived the boarding of the ship in Valley of Darkness
-She is (was) an Adama (Leoben's foreshadowing in Flesh and Bone)
-She tried to convince Lee to move on with his life before the New Caprica rescue mission. Some would say she was being a comforting wife, but you could interpret it other ways.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's her, but I hope it's not.

I'm thinking that the lifespan of the humans in BSG is a bit longer than us, so perhaps 70 is the new 50 =P

I think Dee would make a lot of sense.

-She is (was) an Adama (Leoben's foreshadowing in Flesh and Bone)

I wouldn't be surprised if it's her, but I hope it's not.

Hey, that's a good one. Because their marriage was barely mentioned or even slightly developed other than in 2 or 3 eps, I never really thought of Dee as an Adama, or of that connection.

___________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

I think Dee would make a lot of sense.

-She screwed up, allowing the Olympic carrier to be left behind in '33'
-She survived the boarding of the ship in Valley of Darkness
-She is (was) an Adama (Leoben's foreshadowing in Flesh and Bone)
-She tried to convince Lee to move on with his life before the New Caprica rescue mission. Some would say she was being a comforting wife, but you could interpret it other ways.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's her, but I hope it's not.

I wasn't giving a chance to Dee being the final 5th, but after seeing your reasoning, I think there might be a very good chance.

Why would they ever name you loco? You are far from it !! :D

I wasn't giving a chance to Dee being the final 5th, but after seeing your reasoning, I think there might be a very good chance.

Why would they ever name you loco? You are far from it !! :D

:D Well, thanks. But some people might say I'm slightly obsessed and that makes me a little loco.

Anybody gonna cheat at noon and watch on SciFi.com?

Anybody gonna cheat at noon and watch on SciFi.com?

I might. I am travelling, and don't get Sci-Fi in the hotel, and I can't wait till I get back home tomorrow night. I might sneak a peek in the evening after work. But I promise, I won't spoilerize anything before show time. :D

The blast effects would degrade by the square of the distance from the explosion (I think, if I remember my high school physics correctly), so it's entirely possible, depending on how far away the blast was, that the shock wave was strong enough to blow out the windows, but weak enough by that time to leave the rest of the house standing - and he ducked down beneath the height of the solid deck railing, which would have given him some protection as well. It's entirely conceivable that Baltar could have survived depending on how far removed he was from the blast.

Whethor or not the blast wave was sufficiently strong enough to destroy the house, the flying glass & wood alone was enough to damange him. Having been hit by flying glass debris myself, with the scars to show it, I know that some of that window would have gone through his clothes and hit some part of his skin and required some stitches. Ducking down and hiding behind Six was not going to protect him fully.

I was a tad bit dissapointed with last week's episode.

Aside from the one scene of the Cylon double cross with no resurrection ship, and Callie's space walk (which had no suspense since it was spoiled by the previous week's preview), it was a little slow. I hope tonight makes up for it.

Whethor or not the blast wave was sufficiently strong enough to destroy the house, the flying glass & wood alone was enough to damange him. Having been hit by flying glass debris myself, with the scars to show it, I know that some of that window would have gone through his clothes and hit some part of his skin and required some stitches. Ducking down and hiding behind Six was not going to protect him fully.


We could continue to debate it, but I guess it's really a matter of "dramatic license" that we just need to accept that he survived with minor cuts and bruises and move on. Unless one believes he's a Cylon, which I just can't accept given how the show has developed his character. He also wasn't affected by the trigger mechanism that "activated" the other four.

Hey, vfxproducer - got any juicy Heroes tidbits for us???

Whethor or not the blast wave was sufficiently strong enough to destroy the house, the flying glass & wood alone was enough to damange him. Having been hit by flying glass debris myself, with the scars to show it, I know that some of that window would have gone through his clothes and hit some part of his skin and required some stitches. Ducking down and hiding behind Six was not going to protect him fully.

I was a tad bit dissapointed with last week's episode.

Aside from the one scene of the Cylon double cross with no resurrection ship, and Callie's space walk (which had no suspense since it was spoiled by the previous week's preview), it was a little slow. I hope tonight makes up for it.Why the spoiler tags? Both things happened in last week's episode and thus may be openly discussed. Anyone who hasn't seen last week's show who comes to this thread is goofy and must want to have the episode spoiled. I stay out of this thread after early evening Friday (when the least-coasters will come here to discuss what they've just seen) until I've watched the show.

Hey, vfxproducer - got any juicy Heroes tidbits for us???
Not if I want to keep my job!

Why the spoiler tags? Both things happened in last week's episode and thus may be openly discussed.

It's a harmless courtesy that took 30 seconds. I wrote that post right after reading the rather lengthly discussion of S2 BSG spoilers in the Sarah Connor thread.

It's a harmless courtesy that took 30 seconds. I wrote that post right after reading the rather lengthly discussion of S2 BSG spoilers in the Sarah Connor thread.Well, it is harmless, just not necessary. Both Cally being ejected from the airlock by Tory and Cavil's no-ressurection-ship-ambush maneuver were in last week's episode and have been openly discussed in multiple posts in this thread. We are explicitly free to discuss everything that's happened in already aired episodes--those things are not spoilers unless you're not watching the show as it airs, and if you're not watching the show as it airs, you got no business reading this thread, since you can count on our openly discussing the things that have revealed in any and all the episodes which have already aired.

Like I said, no harm, just unnecessary. No big.

Not if I want to keep my job!

Ah, but the anonymity of the Internet is your trusty cloak of invisibility! Spill some beans, throw us a bone, dish it! :D

Television Without Pity is also playing the Whose the 12th Cylon Game
(no spoilers were harmed in this link):
http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/show/battlestar_galactica/battlestar_galactica_whos_the.php

Bit of fluff, but there are 2 hours to kill :)

Alright, last pet peeve, then I'm done. Peeving.

So which of the ships is still producing cigarettes? I can't imagine Doc having a private stash so big that he can keep on puffing long after the Marlboro Man factory on Caprica glowed a special shade of nuke.

Interesting little peek at the new Caprica series and genesis of the Cybernetic life-form node:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caprica_%28TV_series%29

Alright, last pet peeve, then I'm done. Peeving.

So which of the ships is still producing cigarettes? I can't imagine Doc having a private stash so big that he can keep on puffing long after the Marlboro Man factory on Caprica glowed a special shade of nuke.

Heh, I was wondering about that the last episode, they seem to have quite a lot of booze & tobacco considering how long they've been away from the colonies.

Alright, last pet peeve, then I'm done. Peeving.

So which of the ships is still producing cigarettes? I can't imagine Doc having a private stash so big that he can keep on puffing long after the Marlboro Man factory on Caprica glowed a special shade of nuke.

Well, it could be that they were Phelan's brand, and there are plenty around since he doesn't need them anymore

....Or that Doc Cottle only smokes when he's on camera. ;)

_______________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

As one of the many Lost/BSG crossbreed fans, I have to admit the strong temptation to DVR tonight's BSG ep, because its hard to fathom that they will come up with anything that won't severely pale in comparison with last night's Lost. :(

_____________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Maybe they have replicators, just insert play-do like raw materials and wallah.
Thats the diff between ST and BSG, they hardly even mention the food water situation, just lots of fraking or not enough.

As one of the many Lost/BSG crossbreed fans, I have to admit the strong temptation to DVR tonight's BSG ep, because its hard to fathom that they will come up with anything that won't severely pale in comparison with last night's Lost. :(



Ooh, hilarious red shirt massacre!!! :p

Lost has staged a nice comeback this season, but that doesn't make up for S2 and S3. Not by a long shot, in my opinion.

I enjoy both shows, but I gave up obsessing over Lost a long time ago.

They're distilling their own alcohol. Doesn't account for the cigs though

As one of the many Lost/BSG crossbreed fans, I have to admit the strong temptation to DVR tonight's BSG ep, because its hard to fathom that they will come up with anything that won't severely pale in comparison with last night's Lost. :(Yeah--the Lost writers and directors have struck a vein of gold. Each episode this season not only advances the storyline but stands alone as a very good piece of drama.

Ooh, hilarious red shirt massacre!!! :p

Lost has staged a nice comeback this season, but that doesn't make up for S2 and S3. Not by a long shot, in my opinion.

I love both shows, but I gave up obsessing over Lost a long time ago.
Who's obsessing? Both shows are great. But last night's Lost ep was the equivalent of being on board the Locomotive Breath express, and IMO, has set the bar for this season. Unless this is one helluva an exceptional BSG episode, its just not going to be a fair competition. Of course, by season finale time, things could very easily be much different. But at this particular juncture in time, and through no fault of its own, the gauntlet has been thrown down for this genre.

_________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Repeat... If Baltar wasn't killed in the initial blast, could someone please explain why there is a Cylon entity in his head? (Six) This is not a contentious question. I'd really like to understand this. Could someone please explain this???

They're distilling their own alcohol. Doesn't account for the cigs though

The ambrosia too? ...and what are they using as the base for the alcohol they're distilling? ...the algae? Perhaps I've just missed the explanation of that. Maybe one of the ships saved during the initial attack was some form of Walmart-style cargo ship? :D

They're distilling their own alcohol. Doesn't account for the cigs though

Well, they had a whole park with grass, trees, everything on Cloud 9. If they have the technology to do that, it's not out of the question that they could grow tobacco.

Was that an episode or a hallucination? :eek::D

This one was directed by Edward James Olmos. The man's got a lot of soul for such a frackin' stony face.

Yet another OK episode :(

As one of the many Lost/BSG crossbreed fans, I have to admit the strong temptation to DVR tonight's BSG ep, because its hard to fathom that they will come up with anything that won't severely pale in comparison with last night's Lost. :(

Amen, brother. I guess it was impossible to maintain the season's momentum.

Something has been bothering me about this whole Callie thing. Does everyone on Gallactica believe her death to be a suicide. Did they investigate? How could the key be moved from the booth back into the launch chamber and then be opened again?

Let's call tonight the "whisper episode." Nothing was spoken in a normal voice except the council scene.

fafner

Ellen Tigh is a member of species 8472!

(Been watching some old Star Trek: Voyager episodes on DVD and happened across the episode where the 8472 aliens are training to infiltrate earth and Kate Vernon played one of the aliens)... I had forgotten she was in that episode until watching it again.

Who's obsessing? Both shows are great. But last night's Lost ep was the equivalent of being on board the Locomotive Breath express, and IMO, has set the bar for this season. Unless this is one helluva an exceptional BSG episode, its just not going to be a fair competition. Of course, by season finale time, things could very easily be much different. But at this particular juncture in time, and through no fault of its own, the gauntlet has been thrown down for this genre.



I said I gave up obsessing over Lost; that was not meant to imply you are obsessing over anything.

Comparing one very good episode of one series with one random episode of another is unfair. As you mentioned, by the end of this 10 episode set, it may be very different. After all, Lost still has a couple seasons to go and BSG is ending.

I think the first three episodes of BSG were considerably better than Lost had been so far this season. Tonight's episode was OK, but certainly nothing special.

If we want to arbitrarily compare Escape Velocity vs. The Shape of Things to Come (*cough*), then Lost wins.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Repeat... If Baltar wasn't killed in the initial blast, could someone please explain why there is a Cylon entity in his head? (Six) This is not a contentious question. I'd really like to understand this. Could someone please explain this???

No one knows. NOt a mystery that has been explained.

Absolutely incredible episode. Chief Tyrol's meltdown at the bar with Adama was worth the price of admission all by itself. I love the way Tory, Tigh, and Tyrol are dealing with their nature in completely different ways.

Add to that the Baltar as the Messiah (Jesus?) upsetting the others' temple and Adama and Roslin playing the part of Romans annoyed at the disturbance of the peace and worried that it will become their responsibility.

Top it off with that Monty Python style moment when Baltar, not wanting to be beaten anymore, tells Six 'I wanna stay down, I really wanna stay down' :D Hilarious little moment sandwiched in with the drama!

Even the Government stuff dealing with misuse of power, and what it can lead to, was quite interesting to me.

They should have called it "Gaius Baltar Superstar". The whole Gaius as Jesus thing has been building for a while now. I remember one episope they showed from, I think, last season, where he and Six were on a balcony and she was encouraging him to basically be a god. At the end of the scene he was draping himself across the railing looking up to the heavens in a pose that looked exactly like a crucifiction scene.

Tigh and Six. Ewwwww.

Tigh and Six. Ewwwww.

The face of Tigh's wife on Six's body.... double ewwww

Ellen Tigh is a member of species 8472!
Just when we thought we'd never have to see her again... damn.
She's the Mr. Hankey of BSG- the nasty little poo that just won't flush away :D

Did no one else catch the "Baltair on the cross" pose as Six held him up for the continued beating? It's also the fist time I remember the "vision in the head" physically interacting with the character such that the others can see that interaction. To date, all posing, interaction, ... has been at the complete physical control of Baltair et al. This time you see Baltair as being held up by Six in the view of the others without seeing Six.

.... fist time I remember the "vision in the head" physically interacting with the character such that the others can see that interaction. .....

Yeah, except for his having conversation with Six, I don't think there's ever been a time where there was physical evidence that she existed.

And wow, the 1st shot of Six in last night's episode. :eek::):eek:, just wow!

Did no one else catch the "Baltair on the cross" pose as Six held him up for the continued beating? It's also the fist time I remember the "vision in the head" physically interacting with the character such that the others can see that interaction. To date, all posing, interaction, ... has been at the complete physical control of Baltair et al. This time you see Baltair as being held up by Six in the view of the others without seeing Six.

I'm still not sure what to make of that. It certainly looked like he was being supported by invisible hands. That would certainly be a new development in the "its (or rather "she's" all in his head).

Two things stood out for me in that episode. The thing with Head-Six lifting him up like that. I suppose his psycho-pathology is such that he believes she exists to such a point as he was able to scrunch up his shoulders and make it look like he was being yanked to his feet, but damn - that sure looked like he was being yanked to his feet. :eek:

And the Chief blowing up to Adama like that, and everyone else. :eek: :eek: He's going off the deep end. It's interesting how the W-4 are dealing with their new "condition". Chief is going crazy; Tigh is in heavy denial; Anders is just confused; and Tory is clearly coming to embrace her inner-Cylon. :p

Those raptors must have some sophisticated safety features to have survived that intense crash without injuring the pilot or passenger. Airbags, I'd say. Interesting episode; lots of set-up for the finish run, to be sure. I expected to see a lot of "That episode sucked!" posts because of the slow buildup, heavy dialog, and absence of space battles, but pleasantly surprised so far. ;)

Come to think of it, now I'm not so sure about Cylons.

The little speech that Six gave to Tigh in the cell along the lines or her not being switches and relays, but rather flesh and blood got me thinking: at what point does a Cylon cease to be a Cylon? The "skinjobs" are not mechanical, and apparently not even bio-mechanical (though Sharon did shove that datalink up a vein).

True, they can only replicate existing models unless they mate with a human (wonder if Hera the Hybrid gets a "model number"). They've got to realize that at some point, if they do enough inbreeding, the distinction between "Cylon" and "human" will be blurred, if not eliminated.

They then will have become what they've wanted to destroy. Which leaves the oppressed "toaster" Cylons who will probably get real tired of being ordered about by these "cymens" and rebel, and then have a plan to.......

"That episode sucked!"

Two things stood out for me in that episode. The thing with Head-Six lifting him up like that. I suppose his psycho-pathology is such that he believes she exists to such a point as he was able to scrunch up his shoulders and make it look like he was being yanked to his feet, but damn - that sure looked like he was being yanked to his feet. :eek:

And the Chief blowing up to Adama like that, and everyone else. :eek: :eek: He's going off the deep end. It's interesting how the W-4 are dealing with their new "condition". Chief is going crazy; Tigh is in heavy denial; Anders is just confused; and Tory is clearly coming to embrace her inner-Cylon. :p

Those raptors must have some sophisticated safety features to have survived that intense crash without injuring the pilot or passenger. Airbags, I'd say. Interesting episode; lots of set-up for the finish run, to be sure. I expected to see a lot of "That episode sucked!" posts because of the slow buildup, heavy dialog, and absence of space battles, but pleasantly surprised so far. ;)

What's interesting to me about the chief is how he is handling this. Last season was it, he was afraid he was a Cylon and had dreams of offing himself. Now he really is a Cylon and all he is killing is his career.

Television Without Pity is also playing the Whose the 12th Cylon Game
(no spoilers were harmed in this link):
http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/show/battlestar_galactica/battlestar_galactica_whos_the.php

Bit of fluff, but there are 2 hours to kill :)

From the link, I quote:

Cally Tyrol
She's a Cylon: Not to bring the dread specter of quotas into this whole conversation (particularly when referring to the post-gender-politics universe of Galactica), but the female Cylons are currently outnumbered 7-4, so they could use another chick.

She's Not a Cylon: The show just got us to the point where her relationship with newfound Cylon Tyrol is actually interesting. It's doubtful the show would want to throw that away.

It's really doubtful they'd throw away the Chief-Cally dynamic, huh?

From the link, I quote:



It's really doubtful they'd throw away the Chief-Cally dynamic, huh?

And that would mean if Cally was the final fifth, they can pro-create and perhaps Tory has a little Anders bun in her toaster or something like that. On second thought, never mind.

Did no one else catch the "Baltair on the cross" pose as Six held him up for the continued beating? It's also the fist time I remember the "vision in the head" physically interacting with the character such that the others can see that interaction. To date, all posing, interaction, ... has been at the complete physical control of Baltair et al. This time you see Baltair as being held up by Six in the view of the others without seeing Six.


I think we had a significant clue to this in a previous episode... :)



I noticed on re-watch that when Baltar finds out the kid has been "miraculously" cured, Head Six is sort of looking on from behind him. He seems to be unaware of her presence. Is this the first time we've seen her when she was not interacting directly with Baltar? Does this mean something? Is it important, or am I reading too much into it?


I personally thought that moment was a little clue letting us know in no uncertain terms that Head Six is a real entity. Some continue to believe she's all in Baltar's head or he's schizophrenic or something. No way.

I just rewatched last night's episode, and I enjoyed it much more the second time through. I'm still not crazy over the Baltar storyline, but I think it's interesting to note that he is always just stumbling onto significant moments. He's been manipulated by Head Six all this time, and it's becoming obvious to me that she may well be an Angel of God, as she says, but God may not be benevolent.

Remember this exchange from the S2 episode "Home":

Baltar: Then who, or what, are you, exactly?
Number Six: I'm an angel of God sent here to protect you, to guide you and to love you.
Baltar: To what end?
Number Six: To the end of the human race.

Chilling. Absolutely chilling in light of last night's episode.

I think Dee would make a lot of sense.

-She screwed up, allowing the Olympic carrier to be left behind in '33'
-She survived the boarding of the ship in Valley of Darkness
-She is (was) an Adama (Leoben's foreshadowing in Flesh and Bone)
-She tried to convince Lee to move on with his life before the New Caprica rescue mission. Some would say she was being a comforting wife, but you could interpret it other ways.

Clever theory but...

Tigh was the very single, absolute, last person who you would have thought.

I'm jumping in between the flamethrowers here, but it's why I think the guessing game based on the potentially nice fit of pre-mid-Season 3 actions isn't going to be of much predictive value.

Say what you will about him, but the episodes so far in S4 have shown that RDM chose the Watchtower 4 to drive plot (quite effectively compared to the mess of most of S3), with most of it being "ok, can these guys effectively deliver the tale I want to tell?" I'm guessing fit was mostly a matter of making sure that it made a little sense. Not much, but enough so that he doesn't have to say, "oh, well, um, that plot line, it was just a dream sequence with JR!"

We've got tons of material for the main story lines now - but with 16 episodes left I'm sure we'll get more exploration of the backstory fit as the season progresses. I'd still think they need legitimate filler for maybe 3 or 4 episodes to avoid stepping into the mess of having 20 episodes and only 10 effective hours of plot as they did in S2 and S3.

I just rewatched the Razor episode yesterday...I think I saw some of the now known skinjobs....One of them looked a lot like a distorted face Colonel Tigh. There was also a blond (probably 6) and Leoban.

I've wondered about this too. Does anyone have a screenshot in HD?

On the interesting, but perhaps meaningless front...

It occurred to me last night while watching... Tigh, Tyrol, Tory... and Samuel T Anders... A confluence of "T" names in those final four revealed.

Not that it has to mean anything... but perhaps we should be looking at "T" named characters for our final cylon.

I'm also convinced that the 5th one as yet unrevealed must be a woman...At the moment we have 7 "originals" and 4 "finals" revealed to us. The "originals" are 4:3 male vs female. The "finals" are 3:1... and given that the cylons were putting a lot of effort into reproduction it stands to reason they would have been trying to improve both male and female models over time... so seems like they should be closer to equal in number, thus I'm looking for the last one revealed to be a woman.

Did anyone make out what "Baltar" said to "Lee", it was just after the beating before going inside the sanctuary, I keep replaying it and still cant make it out.

Things sure seam to boarder on magic, with Starbuck dead then returns now looks like an invisible six is holding up Baltar.

The whole theme looks to be suffering and guilt? The coming of Christ, could that be "the its happened before and will happen again" thing?

It was something along the lines of 'because your Gods compelled you to.'

Expanding on my point above, I found this quote from the Battlestar Wiki:

Elosha states that the exodus from Kobol was precipitated when "one jealous god began to desire that he be elevated above all the other gods, and the war on Kobol began."

I believe now that HeadSix is that jealous god, or perhaps an angel of that god (or would that make her a demon?). I think she's manipulating Baltar once again to cause some catastrophe for humanity.

It was something along the lines of 'because your Gods compelled you to.'

Actually I'm pretty sure he said "becaue your god (singular) compelled you to"

It was something along the lines of 'because your Gods compelled you to.'

I thought he said God, singular. I'd imagine by this point Baltar is on pitch marketing the new religion as often as possible.

Did anyone else laugh when HeadSix picked Baltar up and put him through more beating? It is comical to the extent to which the writers go to abuse Baltar in ever way, shape and form.

I don't get why they had to have a crash landing - doesn't BSG essentially have a tractor beam or something else in the landing bay? In the miniseries or one of the first eps they said Adama didn't have them use it to keep them in practice, but you'd think a malfunctioning ship is one of the times you would.

Oh, it may have been singular, I had to replay that scene a couple of times myself just to get that much out of it. :) It would make more sense if it were singular, he'd be "staying on message" that way. I'll have to watch it again with close captioning on, I guess, heh.

I think, sirjonsnow, what they meant was an 'auto' guidance system.

I don't get why they had to have a crash landing - doesn't BSG essentially have a tractor beam or something else in the landing bay? In the miniseries or one of the first eps they said Adama didn't have them use it to keep them in practice, but you'd think a malfunctioning ship is one of the times you would.I've never seen anything about that, and I recall more than a single crash in the landing bay. Boomer apparently was known for it--the first we learn of her affair with Tyrol was after her skidding to a landing and arguing with him about it being due to a problem with her Raptor, the which argument ends with the two of them in a clutch as soon as they get out of sight and earshot of the people in the bay. Starbuck intentionally pushes Apollo's Viper into the bay with her own, skidding in a hail of sparks down the length of it. No tractor beam was employed on them either. Apparently the modern Battlestars had auto-landing systems that Apollo was surprised by the absence of when he arrived on board to play his role in the decommissioning ceremony (miniseries); he'd expected control of his Viper to be taken from him on approach. The Galactica didn't have the system set up. It wouldn't have helped to avoid a crash landing due to a mechanical or electrical failure anyway.

http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Hands-on_Approach

It appears as though it isn't so much they don't have the ability, but they're disallowed from using it per Adama's orders.

So, not so much like present day airports, but not so much tractor beams either, just computer control of the systems.

There's a difference between Boomer's hard landings and a crash landing like this case or when Starbuck and Apollo wedged their ships. But yeah, if it's more of an autopilot function then that wouldn't have helped.

Did anyone else laugh when HeadSix picked Baltar up and put him through more beating? It is comical to the extent to which the writers go to abuse Baltar in ever way, shape and form.

Ya, I laughed and really thought it to be a stretch, even if it does mean something. He looked like a marionette, especially when he was "walked" forward as if he was defying the guard and attempting to pass. I thought, "there's a Star Trek moment". Remember the one with the Gods on Mount Olympus and the mind control movements of the crew. I think that was even the infamous Ohura kiss episode and the hotty yeoman in the white dress.

I thought, "there's a Star Trek moment". Remember the one with the Gods on Mount Olympus and the mind control movements of the crew. I think that was even the infamous Ohura kiss episode and the hotty yeoman in the white dress.
Baltar "I wanna stay down, I really want to stay down" LOL. Ah yes the hot yeoman, I think she did porn, and she was really hot, as my thirteen year old memories flash back. :)

Ya, I laughed and really thought it to be a stretch, even if it does mean something. He looked like a marionette, especially when he was "walked" forward as if he was defying the guard and attempting to pass. I thought, "there's a Star Trek moment". Remember the one with the Gods on Mount Olympus and the mind control movements of the crew. I think that was even the infamous Ohura kiss episode and the hotty yeoman in the white dress.You seem to be talking about the "Plato's Stepchildren" episode of ST:TOS. In the final act, two women are beamed down from Enterprise to be dressed in stolas and forced to act out little scenes with Kirk and Spock for the amusement of the Platonian elite as they try to force Dr. McCoy to stay with them (they were there answering a distress call that turned out to be some simple-to-treat infection contracted by the leader; the Platonians have no physicians at all). The two women were Lt. Uhuru and Nurse Chapel (not a Yeomen); Chapel was played by Majel Barrett, who eventually married Gene Roddenberry, after ST:TOS had been cancelled.

The love scene that they forced Kirk and Uhuru to act out contained the first interracial kiss broadcast on U.S. television, a bit of history.

Which "sexy Yeoman" were you talking about, anyway? Janice Rand had the most frequently recurring Yeoman role in the series, but there were several, all pretty young women. Since Yeoman is a secreterial/clerical role, it fit the stereotype for administrative assistants of the late 60s, when they made ST:TOS.

Greetings

They are confusing the episode "who mourns for adonis" with Plato ... :)

Regards

The love scene that they forced Kirk and Uhuru to act out contained the first interracial kiss broadcast on U.S. television, a bit of history.


Yes but they didn't air the kiss...they aired an alternate take where Kirk turns Uhura and it seems as if they kiss...but they don't. TV Execs wimping out at their worst.

Back to BSG

Which "sexy Yeoman" were you talking about, anyway? Janice Rand had the most frequently recurring Yeoman role in the series, but there were several, all pretty young women. Since Yeoman is a secreterial/clerical role, it fit the stereotype for administrative assistants of the late 60s, when they made ST:TOS.Don't underestimate Nurse Chapel; she looked exactly like Six forty years ago.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Image:Christine_Chapel_2266.jpg

Yes but they didn't air the kiss...they aired an alternate take where Kirk turns Uhura and it seems as if they kiss...but they don't. TV Execs wimping out at their worst.

Back to BSGFrom the notes in the TV.com summary of the episode (http://www.tv.com/star-trek/platos-stepchildren/episode/24948/summary.html?tag=ep_list;title;9):According to Nichelle Nichols, the infamous kiss almost didn't happen. First the director, then studio executives, objected. Roddenberry talked them into shooting the scene with and without the kiss, saying they could decide later. Since it was near the end of a week of filming and the studio didn't want to go over time, Shatner continued to ask for more takes of the kiss until the day was over, then subtly blew the non-kiss take by crossing his eyes at a crucial moment. The result was that the studio and director had no choice but to allow a kissing take.The Star Trek Wiki says that they both claim that their lips never actually make contact, at the insistence of network execs, using clever editing to conceal that. The ST Wiki also reveals that it wasn't the first interracial kiss aired, just the first between fictional characters. Apparently Sammy Davis, Jr. and Nancy Sinatra greet each other with a kiss on a musical variety special almost a year earlier. A brief kiss hello and a long romantic kiss (even if telekenetically forced and photographically faked :)) seem like pretty different things, though I'm sure that the racists of the time were equally outraged by both.

Baltar "I wanna stay down, I really want to stay down" :)


I got a big kick out of that line too.

I think Baltar is that character that everybody loves to hate. Now, the writers are keeping us off balance with changes to his character. I like that tas well.

"That episode sucked!"Ditto. Mostly filler unless you like to see how Baltar and the neo-Cylons are evolving at the expense of advancing the main plot.

There was a huge clue that revealed who the last cylon is going to be. In the episode where Cally eavesdrops on the 3 Cylons in the ammo room, the number of the room is of key importance.

If you want to know who the 12th Cylon model is, then click the link below.

The Room number was 1701D (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/32/STDS9Ep107.jpg)

:D

Ditto. Mostly filler unless you like to see how Baltar and the neo-Cylons are evolving at the expense of advancing the main plot.

A first I though the same filler, but then I watched it again and you can see they're trying to tells us something (the not so evolved cylons confuse pleasure with pain, they learn from pain like some lab rats) just not sure what, this should be a two hour ep, maybe they would have gotten the point across:confused:

Don't underestimate Nurse Chapel; she looked exactly like Six forty years ago.

I reccomend you get some new glasses.

And for you, I recommend Spellcheck™.

A half-decent SF series is now soap opera, swirling around the bowl in rapidly tightening circles. I suppose we can always hope for a robot daggot to bring back some comedy.

Who lives, who dies, who is human or Cylon just doesn't seem to matter much anymore. Days pass with one of these episodes in the DVR, until finally I finish everything else and get down to the BSG dregs.

The writers from Lost appear to have been hired, and even they don't have a plan they can agree on. I normally watch every SF series on TV, but this one is now in last place behind thrice-seen repeats of DS9.

Enough religious claptrap, can we have a major space battle with some nukes, please?

And for you, I recommend Spellcheck™.

I am pretty sure no one has trademarked the term spellcheck

A half-decent SF series is now soap opera, swirling around the bowl in rapidly tightening circles. I suppose we can always hope for a robot daggot to bring back some comedy.

Who lives, who dies, who is human or Cylon just doesn't seem to matter much anymore. Days pass with one of these episodes in the DVR, until finally I finish everything else and get down to the BSG dregs.

The writers from Lost appear to have been hired, and even they don't have a plan they can agree on. I normally watch every SF series on TV, but this one is now in last place behind thrice-seen repeats of DS9.

Enough religious claptrap, can we have a major space battle with some nukes, please?

There is more to Science Fiction than bullets or are you looking for Demolition Derby a Space Odyssey.

I am pretty sure no one has trademarked the term spellcheckThen the copyright's mine. :rolleyes: You ladies want to discuss the show or bicker back and forth?

Did no one else catch the "Baltair on the cross" pose as Six held him up for the continued beating? It's also the fist time I remember the "vision in the head" physically interacting with the character such that the others can see that interaction. To date, all posing, interaction, ... has been at the complete physical control of Baltair et al. This time you see Baltair as being held up by Six in the view of the others without seeing Six.

There was one episode with him being choked up against a bulkhead in season 1 or 2, where others noticed his odd movement caused by six.

There was one episode with him being choked up against a bulkhead in season 1 or 2, where others noticed his odd movement caused by six.

I recall many looks by ship personnel at Baltar while interacting with Six, the best being while working amongst all his blood samples for the Cylon detection program he's "on" Six and Kara walks in on him and he has to "stop short". That was LOL.

I recall many looks by ship personnel at Baltar while interacting with Six, the best being while working amongst all his blood samples for the Cylon detection program he's "on" Six and Kara walks in on him and he has to "stop short". That was LOL.

The difference between this and those other situations is that Baltar could have done those actions himself. He could have grabbed his own tie. He could've slammed his own head into the mirror. He could have, well, you know. ;)

In this case, he was physically lifted off the floor. The way it happened, it was obvious he could not have done those actions himself. And I think that's one of the things we were supposed to take away from that scene.

I recall many looks by ship personnel at Baltar while interacting with Six, the best being while working amongst all his blood samples for the Cylon detection program he's "on" Six and Kara walks in on him and he has to "stop short". That was LOL.

Most of that was because they thought he was talking to himself. I've never seen this clear an indication that there might be something there that's non-corporeal. There was the time Head-Six rammed Baltar's forehead into a mirror with enough force to shatter it and draw blood, and I remarked at the time how immersive was his pathology to permit him to actually damage himself. But perhaps there is more there....? :eek: And I've got no idea where they might be going with that. There are those who feel the show falters when there isn't a boffo vfx sequence in the episode and nothing gets "blowed up real good" - and we've seen the requisite postings along those lines - but this is the sort of meaty metaphysical mindfrak that is what makes this show so unique and deliciously different from anything else on TV (at least that's not named LOST).

It is a fine "mindfrak" and I see it as a human (and i guess Six knows this) problem or flaw. It's a point on what we ignore and Six uses this flaw. Fingers crossed for a proper final season-I'm watching :)

Anyone else that the performance of the actor playing Col Tigh was particularly good this past episode?

Anyone else that the performance of the actor playing Col Tigh was particularly good this past episode?

Yes. He played his part quite well, especially the interactions between him, "head Helen" and Six.

Dang it, didn't enjoy this episode at all. Two in a row now. Oh well, here is to hoping they pick things up.

I was waiting for the prisoner Six to tell Tigh that "you're one of us", I guess cylons still can't see who the final 5 are or detect them, but then again they raiders seem to found Anders just like that...

Or Tigh telling Six he was a Cylon, when he turned off the cameras and tell the crew to leave.. or maybe I missed it.. LOL

I absolutely disliked not getting back to the Cylon fleet to see their faith, not even once scene. And about one scene that what Starbuck had, one lousy scene, that didn't advance that storyline at all (for me).

I wonder why the Roslyn doesn't get her shot of cylon-hibrid blood to extend her life maybe another year? maybe she despises Hera that much she's willing to die for that....

...snip

I wonder why the Roslyn doesn't get her shot of cylon-hibrid blood to extend her life maybe another year? maybe she despises Hera that much she's willing to die for that....

I keep asking the same question along with why someone hasn't shoved Baltar into an airlock yet. Heck, I'd do it and I'm not even in the show. :D

I think it was discussed a few pages ago, but Hera's blood will not work for Roslin now because Hera no longer has stem cells. That was the reason the cure worked before, at least according to Ron Moore's podcast for the Season Two episode where Roslin was cured.

Roslin does not despise Hera. She has been trying to protect her for quite some time now.

And yes, I kind of wish she'd airlock Baltar or something bad would happen to him because he always seems to get away with everything. Though it was nice to see him get the snot beat out of him a little bit. But I'll have to learn patience. As I mentioned earlier, I think this whole religious war thing is going to backfire on Baltar and humanity big time. I hope he finally has to pay some price for his actions and the selfishness he's shown throughout this show.

Or Tigh telling Six he was a Cylon, when he turned off the cameras and tell the crew to leave.. or maybe I missed it.. LOL




I’m loving how Tigh keeps returning to Six to try to find out how to turn that switch on in his cylon mind, to get over the pain of what he did to Helen.

He’s bordering on revealing himself to Six, which the writers obviously were having fun with in her dialogue, and the visions of Helen. Good Stuff!

Aaron Douglas’ performance was also very very well in this one. He’s been one of my favorite characters. A LaForge, without the buff and shine.


Another though provoking, good episode! Roslin is becoming a cold hearted wretch, almost as despicable as Baltar.

A half-decent SF series is now soap opera, swirling around the bowl in rapidly tightening circles. I suppose we can always hope for a robot daggot to bring back some comedy.

Who lives, who dies, who is human or Cylon just doesn't seem to matter much anymore. Days pass with one of these episodes in the DVR, until finally I finish everything else and get down to the BSG dregs.

The writers from Lost appear to have been hired, and even they don't have a plan they can agree on. I normally watch every SF series on TV, but this one is now in last place behind thrice-seen repeats of DS9.

Enough religious claptrap, can we have a major space battle with some nukes, please?
I agree. This show needs to pick it up. Get back to the Starbuck story line and finding earth, mix in a few battles along the way.

Get back to the Starbuck story line and finding earth, mix in a few battles along the way.

Battlescow Crapwagon? Spool up the FTTB drive (Faster Than Taco Bell)? Fire the methane cannons?

Another though provoking, good episode! Roslin is becoming a cold hearted wretch, almost as despicable as Baltar.

Roslin has always worked best when they indulge her own messianic tendencies. From Cain thru to the S3 finale, the fact that Roslin is the most messianic person in the whole group got lost. Also, I like the back-and-forth with her and Baltar every time they're both on-screen.

Also, am I the only person who thinks the Tigh / Six get naked joke from the Letterman Top 10 appearance may be on its way to being a reality?

And lastly, is there a connection between Six and Ellen that goes beyond Tigh pining for his wife? It's a gigantic stretch, but could Ellen have been a Six in the same way that Tigh doesn't fit the "who's a Cylon" timeline, either?

From this season and Razor I take away the impression that the humanoid Cylons are older than has been implied up to this point. Also, the notes about Caprica (the show) indicate humanoid Cylon development long before the First Cylon War. Is it even possible that the humanoid Cylons instigated the war?

I know that is a giant leap, but especially with them digging into Tigh and Six it's hard not to take big leaps.

Tremendous episode with tons of subtlety and subtext - so it's no surprise that those who only want things to "blow up real good" didn't care for it.

And lastly, is there a connection between Six and Ellen that goes beyond Tigh pining for his wife? It's a gigantic stretch, but could Ellen have been a Six in the same way that Tigh doesn't fit the "who's a Cylon" timeline, either?


Very interesting thought. I like it, but I don't think it's the case.

If you look at the 7 Cylons, all of their replacement bodies are the same age. All of the Cavill's are 60-ish, while all of the Sharons are around 24.

There doesn't seem to be any evidence that the Cylon models do any aging.

ft

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Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzz


LOL I hear ya!.... Can we please get back to the Cylon civil war or the Starbuck quest for earth?

And no, I'm not a "blow everything up" fan but this past weeks show was boring and uneventful.

I thought the first 3 eps were great but last friday I got the same feeling I had watching the third installment of Matrix trilogy. :eek:

There doesn't seem to be any evidence that the Cylon models do any aging.

ft

Except that in Tigh's flashback at the beginning of season 2 (when he is in command of galactica), it clearly shows him as a much younger man. I would think it would be obvious if Tigh never aged from his 40 years of service in the fleet. And certainly someone would notice if he started his career looking the way he does now, and then lasted another 40 years after that.

LOL I hear ya!.... Can we please get back to the Cylon civil war or the Starbuck quest for earth?

And no, I'm not a "blow everything up" fan but this past weeks show was boring and uneventful.

I thought the first 3 eps were great but last friday I got the same feeling I had watching the third installment of Matrix trilogy. :eek:

You would think with so few episodes left, they would utilize every minute, the last episode was like "West Wing vs The Branch Davidians in Outer Space".

Roslin has always worked best when they indulge her own messianic tendencies. From Cain thru to the S3 finale, the fact that Roslin is the most messianic person in the whole group got lost. Also, I like the back-and-forth with her and Baltar every time they're both on-screen.




Oh, not saying I don't agree with where it's going. Just a view on where her character seems to be going in terms of the story. I'm actually loving it.


From this season and Razor I take away the impression that the humanoid Cylons are older than has been implied up to this point. Also, the notes about Caprica (the show) indicate humanoid Cylon development long before the First Cylon War. Is it even possible that the humanoid Cylons instigated the war?


I think you hit upon something here, but if it's true then the majority of the colonials had no idea. Remember, in earlier episodes the colonials only knew of the "toasters". Maybe something was brewing before hand under the public and media radar, and I'm sure Caprica will deal with that from the sound of things.

Except that in Tigh's flashback at the beginning of season 2 (when he is in command of galactica), it clearly shows him as a much younger man. I would think it would be obvious if Tigh never aged from his 40 years of service in the fleet. And certainly someone would notice if he started his career looking the way he does now, and then lasted another 40 years after that.

I meant that the 7 Cylon models don't seem to age. The final 5 are somehow "fundamentally different" from the other 7.

This isn't a throw away episode. We'll be returning to it.

You would think with so few episodes left, they would utilize every minute, the last episode was like "West Wing vs The Branch Davidians in Outer Space".
got that right

I recall many looks by ship personnel at Baltar while interacting with Six, the best being while working amongst all his blood samples for the Cylon detection program he's "on" Six and Kara walks in on him and he has to "stop short". That was LOL.

According to the first season extras, that scene took a lot of takes because Sackhoff cracked up every time she saw his face. She was supposed to not suspect anything weird had been going on before she walked in.

There doesn't seem to be any evidence that the Cylon models do any aging.

This series seems to be more-or-less taking place in "real-time". I hedge a little because they don't always make references to how long it has been since leaving their home worlds... and of course the 1-year "jump" that happened between seasons on New Caprica.

But by and large we seem to be roughly 5 years from when the mini-series took place. With this as a guideline, we really haven't had enough time to see any of the cylon models actually age, considering that the real-life actors haven't aged much over the time (Adama/Olmos growing a mustache to look a year older and Adama/Bamber gaining fake weight not withstanding)... so it is still entirely possible that the cylons do age normally.

They seem to do lots of other things normally... including capability of reproduction (Sharon model had a baby and Chief model impregnated a human)... so no reason to believe normal aging isn't in their design.

At least one "problem" appears that many of the models just don't live that long before getting killed and reborn at their starting age... OR (and here's a weird twist) maybe when they regenerate they don't revert to their "birth age" but rather keep the same appearance as their age indicates... which would mean that all Cavill models, for instance will continue to age AND when reborn will start at that age.. so they can be reborn from death BUT don't get a complete reboot to start over younger.

I'd have to take a look at things... but IF my theory is correct.. that would mean the numbering system doesn't necessarily reflect their order of creation.

I agree. This show needs to pick it up. Get back to the Starbuck story line and finding earth, mix in a few battles along the way.

I don't like it but I get the feeling it will all be a clusterfrak in the last 5 or so episodes (next year) to tie everything together-I want to be wrong.

I'd have to take a look at things... but IF my theory is correct.. that would mean the numbering system doesn't necessarily reflect their order of creation.

I've suspected that there may be more of a numerological significance to the numbers, at least some of them.

What is interesting about the numerical designation of the cylons is the fact that the final five are, by and large, the last five numbers - EXCEPT (and this is a big exception) one of them is a 7, followed by Boomer, who is an 8, then the remaining four, apparently, follow Boomer.

I am wondering if there is a reason for this discrepancy in the numbers - or is this just a discrepancy based on an incomplete overall story from the beginning - where at the time they designated Boomer as 8, they hadn't fleshed out the "final five" yet, then were stuck with the fact that at least one of the final five was out of order when they did.

This would make sense, since at the very beginning, the humans (I believe Adama, specifically) are told (by whom, I can't remember) that there are 12 cylon models (not 7), which really wouldn't make much sense if the human cylons are allowed to even think of the final five.

This would make sense, since at the very beginning, the humans (I believe Adama, specifically) are told (by whom, I can't remember) that there are 12 cylon models (not 7), which really wouldn't make much sense if the human cylons are allowed to even think of the final five.

If I recall correctly it was just a printed note on his desk that said there are 12 models. I don't think they revealed who left the note.

Except that in Tigh's flashback at the beginning of season 2 (when he is in command of galactica), it clearly shows him as a much younger man.

Now we're just screwing with the definition of the word "clearly". The Young Tigh and Adama Chronicles were one of the worst younger character flashbacks I've ever seen. They looked like geezers trying to look young.

I get that Tigh was supposed to be younger. But, the younger make-up in the actual episode was by far some of the worst work ever done on BSG.

Oh, not saying I don't agree with where it's going. Just a view on where her character seems to be going in terms of the story. I'm actually loving it.

Fair enough.

I think you hit upon something here, but if it's true then the majority of the colonials had no idea. Remember, in earlier episodes the colonials only knew of the "toasters". Maybe something was brewing before hand under the public and media radar, and I'm sure Caprica will deal with that from the sound of things.

I cannot imagine they're going to let the question of Tigh's age hang loose, especially not with the amount that they're really drilling on the question of him being able (or unable) to embrace his Cylon nature.

I do find the dynamic with Tigh trying to abandon his humanity and learn how to switch it all off interesting when paired off against Six's almost Asimovian fixation with becoming more human.

I'm one of the folks who really loves where the show is going. Especially after the thin patches in S2 and S3, it's good to see the show get back to what made it brilliant in S1 and the first 10 or so episodes of S2.

If I recall correctly it was just a printed note on his desk that said there are 12 models. I don't think they revealed who left the note.

I'm pretty sure Baltar left the note, as it was the 6 who told him there were 12 models ...

I'm pretty sure Baltar left the note, as it was the 6 who told him there were 12 models ...

That's an assumption with no proof...but I made the same assumption :-)

That's an assumption with no proof...but I made the same assumption :-)

In fairness, the note was just a device to introduce the concept that there were a limited number of Cylons.

The only thing I'm a little off on, are the Colonials aware that there is a Final Five? You figure someone on New Caprica had to have done the math, if nothing else. But, in S3 after everyone leaves New Caprica, Baltar overtly asks Six about the numbers, and that's when we're introduced to the fact that the seven aren't supposed to think about them.

You'd figure unless the Colonials were clearly aware of the status o the Final Five, they'd have to keep their guard up (of course, after what Tory did, maybe that's still a good choice).

Anyone have a solid answer on this?

In fairness, the note was just a device to introduce the concept that there were a limited number of Cylons.

The only thing I'm a little off on, are the Colonials aware that there is a Final Five? You figure someone on New Caprica had to have done the math, if nothing else. But, in S3 after everyone leaves New Caprica, Baltar overtly asks Six about the numbers, and that's when we're introduced to the fact that the seven aren't supposed to think about them.

You'd figure unless the Colonials were clearly aware of the status o the Final Five, they'd have to keep their guard up (of course, after what Tory did, maybe that's still a good choice).

Anyone have a solid answer on this?

Yes, I believe the Colonials are aware that there is a Final Five, though they may not know their significance. The Colonials have met, in one form or another, all of the first seven models, so from the note Adama found, they would know there are five left. And, please correct me if I'm wrong, I believe Roslin and Prisoner Six had a conversation about the Final Five, in which Six said she couldn't talk about them or that she couldn't identify them.

The Colonials are definitely keeping their guard up, given the reaction Starbuck got when she "returned from the dead."

As for the note, I initially believed that Baltar left the note. But when, shortly after that, a Six showed up on Galactica trying to discredit Baltar, I thought maybe she left him the note.

I think there are two options as to who left the note.

Baltar, possibly thinking that tipping off everyone to the number of cylon models might "redeem" himself somewhat or ...

The fifth cylon left the note, possibly knowing of events to come (perhaps the fifth cylon is fully aware of his/her cylon-ness, but may be working on "the big picture").

No one knows. NOt a mystery that has been explained.

Steve, thanks for answering that for me.

And, please correct me if I'm wrong, I believe Roslin and Prisoner Six had a conversation about the Final Five, in which Six said she couldn't talk about them or that she couldn't identify them.

You are right.

So, the Colonials are aware that something gives with the Final Five. They may not fully understand the significance, but in fairness it can be argued that the Cylons don't exactly know their full significance, either. With any luck, the writers do.

Guess my joke was too low-brow for you sophisticated types ;)Actually, it was fr@kkin' hilarious.

When you guys mention "the Colonials", who are the characters you're referring to?

Please excuse my ignorance. I've seen about half of the 3 seasons, mostly all of the last part of S3, and currently watching S4. I'm trying to piece this together as best I can, mostly by watching and reading here.

This is one of the best, if not the best, shows I have ever seen. I know I'm sort of "cheating" here, but I'm trying to get a handle on this because the more I understand the more I enjoy the show.

Thanks in advance.

The "Colonials" are the humans. They are from the Twelve Colonies of Kobol.

The "Colonials" are the humans. They are from the Twelve Colonies of Kobol.

And considering that one scenario is the populated Earth scenario, we may need to keep "the Colonials" on hand to differentiate the humans.

And, please correct me if I'm wrong, I believe Roslin and Prisoner Six had a conversation about the Final Five, in which Six said she couldn't talk about them or that she couldn't identify them.

Yes.

Roslin goes into the cell and asks what she knows about "what Baltar calls The Final Five", indicating that she's onto the idea that they are somehow significant.

it follows that Six's reaction "I'm programmed not to think about them" would confirm Roslin's ideas of their importance.

What would be interesting would be that the "final five" are actually the "first five", and the original programmers of the cylons (hence, programmed the cylons not to think of them) ...

I love this show ... there are so many what ifs !!!!!!

What would be interesting would be that the "final five" are actually the "first five", and the original programmers of the cylons (hence, programmed the cylons not to think of them) ...

I love this show ... there are so many what ifs !!!!!!

I think that is what they're indicating. The term "final," is more of a reference to the order to which the colonials became aware of the different models. By the time Baltar coined the term "the final five", seven had been revealed to him. Think of them as the last five or remaining five models to become aware of.

Holy Frak! Anders really is a Cylon...

http://www.tvguide.com/news/michael-trucco-battlestar/080425-01

Trucco remained paralyzed in the car — and trapped upside down in his shoulder harness — for several moments. "It was as if my body had shut down like a computer, then did a little check on itself and rebooted. Once I could move my limbs again, I got the hell out of there." His next few days were excruciating. "Even blinking hurt," Trucco says. "I never knew such pain was possible."


Wow, you ain't kidding!

damnnnnnnnn!!!!!!

Ferrari? Damn, I guess Hollywood pays well even if you are not a lead in any major show. Hooray for good physical conditioning and luck!!

Ferrari? Damn, I guess Hollywood pays well even if you are not a lead in any major show. Hooray for good physical conditioning and luck!!

I was under the impression it was his buddies car, since he was in the passenger seat. Not that I don't think he makes decent money being on the show =P

I'm pretty excited about tonight's episode. Looks like we'll get some more focus on Starbuck's crew and they'll get a visit from Leoben!

(That's only a spoiler if you didn't watch the promo for this week.)

Ferrari? Damn, I guess Hollywood pays well even if you are not a lead in any major show. Hooray for good physical conditioning and luck!!

He wasn't driving....probably wasn't his :-)

The "Colonials" are the humans. They are from the Twelve Colonies of Kobol.

These would then be those who survived the initial attack (those who are wondering in space aboard the various ships... all of the "humans".) There's like 239000 of them left, right?

Thanks in advance.

These would then be those who survived the initial attack (those who are wondering in space aboard the various ships... all of the "humans".) There's like 239000 of them left, right?

Thanks in advance.

That is correct. Only I think you meant 39000. ;)

I hope this week doesn't turn into a whole show on mutiny on the Demetrius, hope the story moves along.

same, i want more of tyrol, tigh, tory, and caprica six mixed in.

leave lee and the prez out this one please

That is correct. Only I think you meant 39000. ;)

yea after the episode "Escape Velocity" the count stands at 39,675.

same, i want more of tyrol, tigh, tory, and caprica six mixed in.

leave lee and the prez out this one please

I think you got what you wanted, with the exception of Six.

Plus a healthy dose of Starbuck and the garbage ship.

I loved that one. But I'm a big Leoben fan. He's always been the creepiest of the Cylons, and you aren't really sure exactly where he's coming from. And the guy gets beat up in practically every episode he's in. :p

Just what I expected "mutiny on the Demetrius" This was all filler with the Leoben exception, he offers an alliance, what was that 15 min worth and the rest filler with Baltar and Tyrol.

Ten episodes to finish the show is probably all thats needed, if you dump some of the filler. waiting till 2009 to see the end of this thing blows.

That is correct. Only I think you meant 39000. ;)
Right, thanks.

You all have some interesting theories and/or expectations. Kind of so-so the last two episodes, but I think Starbuck is 100% correct and I absolutely love the way she has been using her senses to find a direction. I think the bit with the Chief and Baltar was a bit weird, but I can go with it. I hope the Chief does in fact get to the truth of how Cally was actually killed.

This show is very, very good, but for the average Joe like myself, it is actually kind of difficult to follow. I need to watch with captions on.

Looking forward to it all. Thanks for the help.

It wasn't filler, MOREPOWER. It was setup for next week. Like Exodus Part I or Lay Down Your Burdens Part I.

It set up a lot of possibilities. What will happen if they go to the basestar? What will happen if they show back up at the fleet with Leoben? Is there going to be an alliance between the fleet and the 2/6/8's. Are they going to lose any more crew members because of this mutiny?

The scene between Tyrol and Baltar reminded me of the scene between Baltar and Boomer back in Season One when he basically talked her into killing herself. It went a little differently this time.

Also, RIP Gunny Mathias. I always really liked her. :(

Also, RIP Gunny Mathias. I always really liked her. :(

Oh, don't worry, the way this show is being written, she could just float on back to Galactica in two months with Cally. It would make about as much sense as Starbuck.

I like it when Helo hits people.

I loved that one. But I'm a big Leoben fan. He's always been the creepiest of the Cylons, and you aren't really sure exactly where he's coming from. And the guy gets beat up in practically every episode he's in. :p

He must be a distant relative of Ben Linus from Lost ;)

It wasn't filler, MOREPOWER. It was setup for next week. Like Exodus Part I or Lay Down Your Burdens Part I.

It set up a lot of possibilities. What will happen if they go to the basestar? What will happen if they show back up at the fleet with Leoben? Is there going to be an alliance between the fleet and the 2/6/8's. Are they going to lose any more crew members because of this mutiny?

The scene between Tyrol and Baltar reminded me of the scene between Baltar and Boomer back in Season One when he basically talked her into killing herself. It went a little differently this time.

Also, RIP Gunny Mathias. I always really liked her. :(


...and Kara asked a really good (unfortunately unanswered) question of "what happened to be during the time I was "missing".

It set up a lot of possibilities. What will happen if they go to the basestar? What will happen if they show back up at the fleet with Leoben? Is there going to be an alliance between the fleet and the 2/6/8's. Are they going to lose any more crew members because of this mutiny?

:(

Exactly my point, after the 15 min on the Demetrius, the rest was filler.
I did like what they served up in those 15 min, but its too little meat and potatoes for a week of waiting.

If only they beat the snot out of Baltar one more time, then I would've been more satisfied with the lack of story progression.

PS. The Chief's portrayal of "Full metal jacket" was OK I guess. They forgot the jelly donut.

...and Kara asked a really good (unfortunately unanswered) question of "what happened to be during the time I was "missing".

Yes. What was interesting was that Leoben said he didn't know. I wondered if that confirmed that he was not the entity who was with her.

I'm also trying to figure out whether Leoben knew Sam was a Final Fiver.

Yes. What was interesting was that Leoben said he didn't know. I wondered if that confirmed that he was not the entity who was with her.

I'm also trying to figure out whether Leoben knew Sam was a Final Fiver.

At least up to this point it appears that a "regular" cylon doesn't have the ability to recognize any of the final five.

At least up to this point it appears that a "regular" cylon doesn't have the ability to recognize any of the final five.

Yes, but their "pets", the raiders, can sense them. Just like our pets sometimes seem to have senses we don't have. Interesting angle. But I think the Six on the Galactica recognizes Tigh now, doesn't she?

Random thoughts: Love Leoben (my third favorite Cylon); glad to see he's getting more to do. Don't know why Baltar was so obsessed with Tyrol. This Cylon civil war storyline is going to be good. Love the mutiny angle on The Dimetrius; Katee Sackoff has the intensity to pull this off and glad to see they sent Helo along. Moore said on the podcast that was actually the network's idea, said there hadn't been much for Helo to do this season. Moore said, hey yeah, they're right, and so they sent him along with Starbuck on this mission.

Yes, but their "pets", the raiders, can sense them. Just like our pets sometimes seem to have senses we don't have. Interesting angle. But I think the Six on the Galactica recognizes Tigh now, doesn't she?

I think that's a possibility...she certainly suspects something is up with him...but I guess I'm still waiting for the, "Wait, YOU'RE a Cylon? C'mere you hunka, hunka burning love." OK, maybe not.

Random thoughts: Love Leoben (my third favorite Cylon); glad to see he's getting more to do. Don't know why Baltar was so obsessed with Tyrol. This Cylon civil war storyline is going to be good. Love the mutiny angle on The Dimetrius; Katee Sackoff has the intensity to pull this off and glad to see they sent Helo along. Moore said on the podcast that was actually the network's idea, said there hadn't been much for Helo to do this season. Moore said, hey yeah, they're right, and so they sent him along with Starbuck on this mission.

Can't wait to see how Mutiny on the Dimetrius is going to play out. The whole arc of joining the Cylons to fight the Cylons has me hooked big time.

yea too much talk....i wanna see them shoot things up.

As teased in next week's preview, perhaps we will finally learn a little more about the hybrids? I am not sure what they are hybrids of? We will learn that the one on the base ship is somehow connected to Cain's sister that may have been abducted on the last day of the 1st Cylon war as revealed in Razor? Or will the whereabouts of Lucy (I think) remain unexplained? I just love this show!

At least up to this point it appears that a "regular" cylon doesn't have the ability to recognize any of the final five.

But I got the feeling Leoben at least suspected Sam, if not outright recognized him as a Cylon.

He said something about Sam had been "waiting for your moment of singular clarity." He talked about him being special. It struck me that Leoben was even talking to Sam at all. Something about him interests him. He already suspects that the Final Five are with the fleet, so it would make sense that he'd try to figure out which ones they are.

After re-watching, the Sam/Leoben scene was just fascinating to me. The dialogue is so ambiguous. You can read it either way.

The 6 on the Galactica saw the final five, remember? That's why Roslin came to her several episodes back. The 6 definitely knows that Tigh is a cylon.

I have to say that so far I've been fairly underwhelmed with this season and most of the last. I thought seasons 1 and 2 were outstanding, but the show has been in steady decline since then. I hope they get over the filler soon (next week?) and drive the story hard all the way to the finale.

The 6 on the Galactica saw the final five, remember? That's why Roslin came to her several episodes back. The 6 definitely knows that Tigh is a cylon.

...and will so spill the beans once she is out of the box!

I agree. I also think that they're going to have Roslin's death occur soon. Then we'll have 2-3 episodes of political infighting / filler. A cyclon alliance could even split the fleet in two, who knows?

As teased in next week's preview, perhaps we will finally learn a little more about the hybrids? I am not sure what they are hybrids of? We will learn that the one on the base ship is somehow connected to Cain's sister that may have been abducted on the last day of the 1st Cylon war as revealed in Razor? Or will the whereabouts of Lucy (I think) remain unexplained? I just love this show!

That's definetely an interesting aspect. Right now there's very little that has been taken over from Razor. Are those last words of that 1st Hybrid really everything?

I like it when Helo hits people.

With a screen name of "big angry", we're not surprised. :D

One thing that was established was that the Cylon bay ship or at least part of it survived. Which begs the question why the other Cylons did finish her off.

I've been disappointed with this season. The civil war among the Cylons has a lot of potential. I didn't like the way they killed off Cally. It could have been interesting how she would have dealt with being the mother of Cylon/human hybrid. I guess that her death was done to show that the new cyclons can be devious.

Lost has been hitting home runs with this season, but BSG is losing its position as a must see show for me.

We won't know until it's over, but I think they gave Moore too many episodes to complete a limited storyline. There are only so many stories to tell (without repeating yourself) when you have a destination in sight and pressure to get there. A Space/Soap Opera can go on indefinitely (like the Star Trek series' ) but Battlestar Galactica wasn't set up that way.

Personally, I prefer the "Heroes" idea. Set up a challenge at the start of the season and solve it by the end: next season - next challenge. I don't think any antagonist deserves more than one season or one and a half. (in the antagonist/protagonist schema) Fighting the same battles over and over will either get redundant or very slow paced.

We won't know until it's over, but I think they gave Moore too many episodes to complete a limited storyline. There are only so many stories to tell (without repeating yourself) when you have a destination in sight and pressure to get there. A Space/Soap Opera can go on indefinitely (like the Star Trek series' ) but Battlestar Galactica wasn't set up that way.

Personally, I prefer the "Heroes" idea. Set up a challenge at the start of the season and solve it by the end: next season - next challenge. I don't think any antagonist deserves more than one season or one and a half. (in the antagonist/protagonist schema) Fighting the same battles over and over will either get redundant or very slow paced.

One of the strengths of this series is its ability to keep reinventing itself, usually leaving many dropped jaws in its wake. Each season has had its own identity and this fourth season's prime storylines - the Cylon civil war and the final push to find earth - are just now rounding into shape. To dismiss the very strength of this remarkable series - its willingness to shake up the status quo - is not an appropriate criticism. Moore and Co. have never been shy about taking risks, and most have paid off handsomely. I suggest we give them time to finish this story the way they have planned, which based on past performance should be boffo stuff. Dropped jaws aplenty await us over the next 15 episodes (or whatever number remain; too few in any event). Bail at your own risk. ;)

My jaw hasn't dropped in the last few episodes. Something truly interesting better happen soon--I almost don't care how this works out anymore. It's gone from being one of the best series on television to being one of the most boring.

My draw hasn't dropped in the last few episodes. Something truly interesting better happen soon--I almost don't care how this works out anymore. It's gone from being one of the best series on television to being one of the most boring.

Well take it for what it is... a tv show. This one has enough interest for me, at least to watch. Personally I hate tv for the most part. This one is good, though.

My reason for being here is to try and get a few answers to questions I have about the story-line, because it helps me better understand the show. Something about this show draws me to the extreme action of reading and posting here. What's up with that? I hate tv.

To dismiss the very strength of this remarkable series - its willingness to shake up the status quo - is not an appropriate criticism.I really didn't feel that I was criticising what has gone on, up to date. If he can continue to tell compelling stories that are meaningfully related to the goal in sight, then Great! (hence the "We won't know until it's over" comment)

If, on the other hand, it devolves into minutia laden episodes that plod slowly to the exit, then I will be disappointed. Hopefully he will maintain tight control of the other writers, directors, and producers. (I will be really P.O.'d if he ends up with an Adam and Eve ending regardless of how he gets there, however)

I though this was the weakest episode so far, but that's ok, the other episodes have been great this season. They'll be back on it next week. It's funny, 'Lost' ran the same way this week: great season so far, just this week's episode seemed like filler.

My draw hasn't dropped in the last few episodes. Something truly interesting better happen soon--I almost don't care how this works out anymore. It's gone from being one of the best series on television to being one of the most boring.

If you could survive Season 2's awful stretch from after the death of Cain until the episode where Six downloads on Caprica, there's no reason to bail now.

The 6 on the Galactica saw the final five, remember? That's why Roslin came to her several episodes back. The 6 definitely knows that Tigh is a cylon.

They never fully establish that she did see them enough to identify them. It is clear that Roslin is on a fishing expedition. It is also clear that for whatever reason, Roslin can project in much the same manner the Cylons do. Where Roslin goes off the rails is that she seems to be able to project into the reality of the individual Cylons themselves (as she did with Leoben in S1), whereas it has been mentioned many times in the show that the Cylons' projection realities are supposed to be independent and personal.

BTW, I think this actually disproves that Roslin is a Cylon. All the humans who act as instruments of CyGod/the gods seem to be able to project. Baltar, Starbuck and Roslin have all at various times been able to do it.

This episode was the first one that let me down a bit this season. I suspect that's just because it was a slow episode. I was glad to see they brought Leoben back into the frame; I was wondering where he had gone away to.

However, Helo's manhood finally came home. He beat a man down for basically agreeing with him. Very pimptastic for Helo.

Overall, it was, as someone mentioned, 15 minutes of story stretched out over an hour.

My draw hasn't dropped in the last few episodes. Something truly interesting better happen soon--I almost don't care how this works out anymore. It's gone from being one of the best series on television to being one of the most boring.

Ditto. They set up a civil war, with the start of a great space battle, then drop it for two episodes. They make a huge deal about the hybrid baby for almost a season, then never pay it off, and ignore the fact that Cally's baby is one, too. Starbuck explodes, then arrives in a brand-spanking new viper, and they basically treat her like a lost crewman instead of putting her in the brig with six like logic and common sense would dictate. Lot's of publicity about how the Razor movie sets up the new season, and then bupkis. Huge deal about Starbuck being able to "feel" her way back home, then spend two episodes drifting through space doing art projects. It's like the writers have lost their way and are groping for something they themselves can't figure out.

Apparently, Starbuck's adventure on the sewer ship is essentially a metaphor for the writer's room.

are there 10 or 15 episodes left?

are there 10 or 15 episodes left?

Twenty total, stretched out over two years.:eek::mad:

The problem for me for the last couple of shows has been that they are dark and depressing. Difficult to watch. They may be well acted, but no fun at all. It's much like a visit to a psych ward. The main characters are all displaying varying psychological disorders. Psychotic delusions, paranoia, depression, suicidal ideation, megalomania. This may be all be appropriate to their situation but it's not what I tune in for. I don't need big battle scenes just something not so consistently down and dark.

If you could survive Season 2's awful stretch from after the death of Cain until the episode where Six downloads on Caprica, there's no reason to bail now.Those were four or five episodes which included "Scar", one of my all-time favorites. They were filler, but it was mid season 2 and they had an excuse for pausing to do some character building. They were all a ton more interesting to me than either of the last couple.

My problem with the last couple of episodes is that, not only do they seem to be filler, some of the main happenings are infuriatingly senseless. They have a photographic record of Starbuck's Viper exploding on a mission with no means of rescue nearby. She returns weeks later in an apparently brand new Viper claiming to only remember being gone for a matter of hours and claiming to have been to Earth and to be able to lead the fleet back. She's obviously not what she claims to be--the real Starbuck would have been highly suspicious and mistrustful of herself under the circumstances, but she can't believe that they don't just believe her and merrily lead the fleet wheresoever she leads. If they'd spaced her and blown her Viper-of-unknown-origins to bits, no one could have blamed them. At the very least, she should have been locked up from the moment she showed up, but they let her walk around free with a light guard. She escapes, attacks the President at gunpoint and is finally incarcerated, at which point Adama decides to give her an expendible ship with which to try to find Earth her way. This doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but I can accept it on the basis of Adama hedging his bets. What I can't buy is that he'd give her a crew consisting of his most experience and trusted officers, Helo, Athena and Gaeta among them. That he'd take her from the brig and give her command of a mission is also kind of ridiculous; if he was going to send him, Helo should have been placed in charge, instructed to help her find whereever it was she was so driven to go.

The whole "Baltar as holy prophet" thing is a major snore. The only interesting thing that's happened is the Cylon internal conflict and they're largely ignoring it. They badly need to pick up some kind of momentum. With 17 episodes or so left to wrap this up, that they'd spend time of this nonsense is a very bad sign. What should be a thrill ride is a depressing bore. Any expectation that I had that this would end in an interesting way is slowly fading away.

The problem for me for the last couple of shows has been that they are dark and depressing. Difficult to watch. They may be well acted, but no fun at all. It's much like a visit to a psych ward. The main characters are all displaying varying psychological disorders. Psychotic delusions, paranoia, depression, suicidal ideation, megalomania. This may be all be appropriate to their situation but it's not what I tune in for. I don't need big battle scenes just something not so consistently down and dark.

I think this is one of the things that works for this show. Having a party and everyone standing around cracking jokes would be totally out of place giving the situation. That's the sort of TV nonsense that other shows of this type would have done. With that said, I do think it would be nice to pull back a little from the intimate personal view, and fill in the larger picture a bit more. Not to get away from the depressing, but to simply keep the story moving and not dwell so much in some character's wallowing in self pity. I mean, enough already with the Chief... We get it!

Interesting in that they are having a tough time in bringing back the Starbuck character in a way that makes sense.Could it be that they killed her off last season and then she showed up as a character on Bionic Woman last fall.....now they have changed their mind and are trying to bring her back in a way that makes sense?

Interesting in that they are having a tough time in bringing back the Starbuck character in a way that makes sense.Could it be that they killed her off last season and then she showed up as a character on Bionic Woman last fall.....now they have changed their mind and are trying to bring her back in a way that makes sense?

No. David Eick was the EP on 'Bionic Woman' as well as BSG. They had planned out her story arc on BSG with that in mind. It was always intended to bring her back in order to fulfill the requirements of the plotline, and they told her that when they "killed" off Starbuck in the episode "Maelstrom". They didn't tell anyone else though, and the rest of the cast believed she really had left the show permanently.

OK, I'm a pretty staunch defender of this show, and so far I love this season and have faith that the setup we're seeing now will play out satisfactorily. But even I admit they better get somewhere with Baltar soon. My eyes glaze over every time they show him and his Harem of Pathetic Dependent Women. It's just insulting to me as a woman to watch these idiots fawn over him and cry over his BS. What he is saying might be "powerful" or "sincere" on some level, but I've seen Baltar slime his way out of too many situations during the course of this show to believe much of anything he says now.

Oddly, the only thing I've felt he was sincere about this year was his apology to Tyrol. No one else was around, he wasn't doing it for show. Actually, I think he had other motivations - he wanted someone of import to join his cult - but that doesn't mean the apology itself wasn't sincere.

It wouldn't bother me at all to see Baltar fly out of an airlock, and he used to be one of my favorite characters.

OK, I'm a pretty staunch defender of this show, and so far I love this season and have faith that the setup we're seeing now will play out satisfactorily. But even I admit they better get somewhere with Baltar soon. My eyes glaze over every time they show him and his Harem of Pathetic Dependent Women. It's just insulting to me as a woman to watch these idiots fawn over him and cry over his BS. What he is saying might be "powerful" or "sincere" on some level, but I've seen Baltar slime his way out of too many situations during the course of this show to believe much of anything he says now.

Oddly, the only thing I've felt he was sincere about this year was his apology to Tyrol. No one else was around, he wasn't doing it for show. Actually, I think he had other motivations - he wanted someone of import to join his cult - but that doesn't mean the apology itself wasn't sincere.

It wouldn't bother me at all to see Baltar fly out of an airlock, and he used to be one of my favorite characters.

I truly believe Baltar is a changed man now - notwithstanding the merits of his beliefs. I don't think he is the same megalomaniac of past seasons. And history has shown that however goofy your ideology is, there is always someone willing to lap it up and fawn themselves at your feet for enlightenment.

....And history has shown that however goofy your ideology is, there is always someone willing to lap it up and fawn themselves at your feet for enlightenment.

I agree with that part, especially considering the hell these people have been through for the past few years. It's not only not surprising that a cult religion would find traction in the midst of such a shell-shocked civilization, it's also not surprising that Baltar, the ultimate survivor, would be leading it. He's weighed his options, and this Messiah deal that's dropped in his lap is looking pretty good right now.

For all those complaining about "filler episodes," perhaps a 2-hour movie would be more to your liking.

Those were four or five episodes which included "Scar", one of my all-time favorites. They were filler, but it was mid season 2 and they had an excuse for pausing to do some character building. They were all a ton more interesting to me than either of the last couple.

I'll give the points on Scar.

My problem with the last couple of episodes is that, not only do they seem to be filler, some of the main happenings are infuriatingly senseless. They have a photographic record of Starbuck's Viper exploding on a mission with no means of rescue nearby. She returns weeks later in an apparently brand new Viper claiming to only remember being gone for a matter of hours and claiming to have been to Earth and to be able to lead the fleet back. She's obviously not what she claims to be--the real Starbuck would have been highly suspicious and mistrustful of herself under the circumstances, but she can't believe that they don't just believe her and merrily lead the fleet wheresoever she leads.

In fairness, by this point credulity wouldn't the biggest barrier to believing anything for our band of nomadic post-apocalyptic space folks.

if he was going to send him, Helo should have been placed in charge, instructed to help her find whereever it was she was so driven to go.

Which is how it would have been tasked in the real military. You know, minus the giant space ship and the need to find Earth.

The whole "Baltar as holy prophet" thing is a major snore.

It's not a snore when they don't dwell on it. For example, Baltar talking to himself in the dining hall was precious.

I confess, I really don't get why or where they are going anywhere with the Tyrol and Baltar thing. Admittedly, the Chief is one of the few people whose experience with Baltar was not 100% negative (on Kobol). But, it did seem pretty dumb that a guy who helped in an attempted assassination by suicide bombing against Baltar would do anything except beat the man within an inch of death.

OK... you're right... let's blow some **** up!!

The show is at its best when SIX in wearing something hot and red.
I want Sharon to dress like that to!!
More CYLONS, CYLONS!!!

Face it this show appeals to guys only!! SIX is HOT!!!

Apparently, Starbuck's adventure on the sewer ship is essentially a metaphor for the writer's room.

LOL, to true
Showing only about 5 seconds of the Cylon civil war and 1/2 an episode on Baltars cult???:confused::mad:

My jaw hasn't dropped in the last few episodes. Something truly interesting better happen soon--I almost don't care how this works out anymore. It's gone from being one of the best series on television to being one of the most boring.

+1

I confess, I really don't get why or where they are going anywhere with the Tyrol and Baltar thing. Admittedly, the Chief is one of the few people whose experience with Baltar was not 100% negative (on Kobol). But, it did seem pretty dumb that a guy who helped in an attempted assassination by suicide bombing against Baltar would do anything except beat the man within an inch of death.

OK... you're right... let's blow some **** up!!

I think they got Tyrol to go where they needed him to go. And Baltar helped him get there. I rewatched the episode tonight, and one thing that struck me during the conversation between Chief and Baltar is Baltar admitting that everything made sense for him once he stopped fighting and embraced what he really was. So far, Tori has been the only one that has done that. (Although perhaps she is a bit too quick to embrace her cylon-ness, and it has caused her to go off the deep end a little bit.) I think they are setting Chief up to become the real savior of the human race - and I think it involves the cylons and humans teaming up to find earth. I think the storylines will dovetail at the end.

So, so far, Tori has accepted her cylonness. I predict Chief has now as well, but will be fundamentally different than Tori - more "human and humane". Tigh is still struggling, as we saw last week. Anders they have kind of ignored - perhaps he is still in denial. They haven't really dwelled on him struggling to accept.

And I think these stories are necessary for the character arcs to ring true. If they all just accepted being cylons, it would not have seemed believable. I was waiting for the "suicide" to occur on one of them, and they touched on it with Chief. ANd it makes sense for him.

So, so far, Tori has accepted her cylonness. I predict Chief has now as well, but will be fundamentally different than Tori - more "human and humane". Tigh is still struggling, as we saw last week. Anders they have kind of ignored - perhaps he is still in denial. They haven't really dwelled on him struggling to accept.

There is a running theme that Baltar is the trigger for every frakkin Cylon on Galactica. He may have triggered Boomer. He clearly triggered Tory (or at least eased her acceptance of her fate). And now there's the Chief.

I almost hate the concept.

I thought perhaps BSG's greatest moment was Tigh's "if I die today, that's the man I'll be" speech. It cuts to the core dilemma of the story: opposing fatalism in every sense of the word.

Now, I'm giving fair warning that I'm about to go off on a tangent... but... going way back to the pilot, did anyone else read any meaning into the name Ragnar? It sticks out, as a Norse mythological term, amid all the Greek and Roman names that litter BSG.

What I'm pondering is the meaning of Ragnar, especially as it pertains to Tigh's will to fight fate. Ragnarok, in Norse mythology, is the place where the gods will fight the final battle of the apocalypse. But what makes Ragnarok distinct in mythologies is that the gods know they're going to die during the battle, yet they go bravely toward the final battle.

I compare that specifically to Tigh's attitude about "if I die today, that's the man I'll be". It is clear that whatever the deal with the final five is, Tigh has the strongest handle on resisting whatever the worst of it might be. For all his efforts to coax an answer from Six about "switching it off", it just isn't who Tigh is.

I like that interpretation. Nothing against the happy human-Cylon hybrid pseudo-Christian sing-along that's shaping up, but a bloody "The Wild Bunch" kinda ending would suit that part of me that says screw the Cylon God, screw the cycle of time and screw fate.

Also, it would provide the required bloodbath that we all want to occur.

Kind of a weird thought while watching the situation deteriorate with Starbuck's crew and the mutiny etc. I'm surprised that all this 'Is Starbuck a cylon or isn't she' arguing has not brought up that fact that Sharon (Helo's wife, Athena?) actually *is* a Cylon and she's standing right there in the same room with this major fight going on.

Regardless of the good deeds done by this version of Sharon, it's been shown during 'Boomers' attempt to assasinate Adama that it just takes a second for that programming to take over.

It just struck me as weird that they would have this raging argument about Starbuck's intentions and ignore the actual Cylon standing right next to them. It just seems like the subject would have to come up in the course of that argument.

Kind of a weird thought while watching the situation deteriorate with Starbuck's crew and the mutiny etc. I'm surprised that all this 'Is Starbuck a cylon or isn't she' arguing has not brought up that fact that Sharon (Helo's wife, Athena?) actually *is* a Cylon and she's standing right there in the same room with this major fight going on.

Regardless of the good deeds done by this version of Sharon, it's been shown during 'Boomers' attempt to assassinate Adama that it just takes a second for that programming to take over.

It just struck me as weird that they would have this raging argument about Starbuck's intentions and ignore the actual Cylon standing right next to them. It just seems like the subject would have to come up in the course of that argument.

It's important to remember something we tend to forget. We're trying to push our values and sense of propriety onto this group of desperate people who are doing what they have to do to survive. Lee's speech when Lampkin put him on the stand during Baltar's trial illustrates that mindset. Everybody has done something that would not be tolerated under "normal" conditions. They made a decision, led by their commander, to trust the "new" Boomer. They believed she had reached the point where her Cylon programming was buried forever and would never again control her actions. In the same way, they're prepared to trust Kara because of everything she's done over the last 4 years fighting the Cylon threat. Kara Thrace has been shown to be the "Go-To Gal" for just about everything from Viper missions to prisoner interrogation; arguably one of the most indispensable members of the crew. Is it a risk? Of course. But these people live with terrible risk every day and are just doing their best to survive under the most difficult circumstances. And since they don't know about the sleeper "Final Five" in their midst, the only indication they have that sleeper Cylons exist within the Colonial Fleet is Boomer - and they feel like they've got her under control. They don't understand what happened with Starbuck, but for now, they're willing to risk that she is still, in fact, Starbuck. For Commander Adama, the ends (finding Earth) justifies the means (trusting Boomer and Starbuck).

It's important to remember something we tend to forget. We're trying to push our values and sense of propriety onto this group of desperate people who are doing what they have to do to survive. Lee's speech when Lampkin put him on the stand during Baltar's trial illustrates that mindset. Everybody has done something that would not be tolerated under "normal" conditions. They made a decision, led by their commander, to trust the "new" Boomer. They believed she had reached the point where her Cylon programming was buried forever and would never again control her actions. In the same way, they're prepared to trust Kara because of everything she's done over the last 4 years fighting the Cylon threat. Kara Thrace has been shown to be the "Go-To Gal" for just about everything from Viper missions to prisoner interrogation; arguably one of the most indispensable members of the crew. Is it a risk? Of course. But these people live with terrible risk every day and are just doing their best to survive under the most difficult circumstances. And since they don't know about the sleeper "Final Five" in their midst, the only indication they have that sleeper Cylons exist within the Colonial Fleet is Boomer - and they feel like they've got her under control. They don't understand what happened with Starbuck, but for now, they're willing to risk that she is still, in fact, Starbuck. For Commander Adama, the ends (finding Earth) justifies the means (trusting Boomer and Starbuck).

You could also look at it - that there is no room to screw up with only 39,000 left in the fleet. I would also be wary enough of Boomer (despite how hot she is) to keep her in the brig for the duration of the exodus. Now, same with Starbuck. But that's me, and apparently not Adama. I think Roslyn would agree with me about Starbuck.

Anybody else notice the painting Starbuck was painting on the wall of the crapper ship? It had that same figure of the "light ship" she was painting on the Galactica. This all raises the question of "where does she get these paints?" Its not like you're running from the Cylons and say "lets stop by the art store before leaving Caprica." :)

One thing I don't understand. Starbuck's ship is supposed to rendezvous back with the fleet. Wouldn't it be smart for them to send a single ship to that rendezvous point instead of the whole fleet in case the Cylons had captured them and found it out? That one ship could evaluate the situation and make sure they don't have another Olympic Carrier situation.

At least some of the mutineers are trying to talk some sense into Starbuck: rendezvous back with the fleet, refuel, and go back. Why not? Starbuck is crazy if she thinks the whole frakking fleet is going to wait on her indefinitely.

At least some of the mutineers are trying to talk some sense into Starbuck: rendezvous back with the fleet, refuel, and go back. Why not? Starbuck is crazy if she thinks the whole frakking fleet is going to wait on her indefinitely.

I think she feels, deep in her bones, that if she doesn't follow through on her quest, she'll lose her way. If she goes back, even to refuel, she might not find it again. She's pretty desperate at this point.

I think they got Tyrol to go where they needed him to go. And Baltar helped him get there. I rewatched the episode tonight, and one thing that struck me during the conversation between Chief and Baltar is Baltar admitting that everything made sense for him once he stopped fighting and embraced what he really was. So far, Tori has been the only one that has done that. (Although perhaps she is a bit too quick to embrace her cylon-ness, and it has caused her to go off the deep end a little bit.) I think they are setting Chief up to become the real savior of the human race - and I think it involves the cylons and humans teaming up to find earth. I think the storylines will dovetail at the end.

So, so far, Tori has accepted her cylonness. I predict Chief has now as well, but will be fundamentally different than Tori - more "human and humane". Tigh is still struggling, as we saw last week. Anders they have kind of ignored - perhaps he is still in denial. They haven't really dwelled on him struggling to accept.

And I think these stories are necessary for the character arcs to ring true. If they all just accepted being cylons, it would not have seemed believable. I was waiting for the "suicide" to occur on one of them, and they touched on it with Chief. ANd it makes sense for him.

I wonder if Anders is being "ignored" (so far) because of the significance of his relationship with Starbuck....HMMMMM!!?? No one really knows what's up with Starbuck, but clearly she has some significant role coming up, plus she has no clue that Anders is a Cylon!! Lots of directions this could go (and let's not forget that Lee is "single" once again!!!)...including LOTS of fireworks!!!

Mark me in the column of those gettign a bit tired of the show. I don't require space combat every episode, but I feel there isn't much progress, particularly if the season is so short with a multi-month hiatus. I know the writers are enjoying all this scenery chewing, but I need some concrete developments!

For example, where the HELL is the fleet going? Guided by what? Why are the cylons following them, and how? At this point the humans should be far, far, far from any explored space, probably to the point of no return. Their numbers are dwindling, supplies must be running low, the outlook ought to be bleak. Yet the remaining humans seem terribly petty and nearsighted. Humans can adapt to almost any environment, but I think this show has devolved to a soap opera level of external detail and I don't like it.

It is still enjoyable, but only due to specific scenes (or "beats", as Moore likes to call them), not due to the greater journey. I watch now to see how they are going to torture Baltar, how cool they will make Adama, how seductive Six can be, and just how sweaty Starbuck will get before her next breakdown :P The show has abandoned almost any "hour long" structure and is essentially a continuous narrative, alas it feels to much like a "stream of consciousness" instead of the carefully crafted final act I was expecting.

The season started great, but now the episodes are 1 or 2 storylines only, they go from Baltar religion, Starbuck's search for Earth, Adama and Roslin politics, the Cylon civil war and the final 4(5), they only seem to cover 2 on each episode, and I think they still leaving out the D'anna character for much later in the season, and the 5th cylon when it will be revealed?

I have been enjoying the episodes, but I think they would be better on dvd when you can watch a bunch of them in a row. The season so far seems to be one long story that you have to wait a week to get the next piece, which really detracts from the impact.

I have been enjoying the episodes, but I think they would be better on dvd when you can watch a bunch of them in a row. The season so far seems to be one long story that you have to wait a week to get the next piece, which really detracts from the impact.

+1

I did this with a bunch of episodes (watch two, three, or four in a single sitting from DVD). It made a significant difference for me - flowed better without commercial skipping clumsiness, and the episode to episode tie-in seemed more effective.

But I can't wait while the episodes sit on the DVR. So I've decided to just watch 'em "live"/buffered now, then do the multi episode marathon watching when it is all said and done.

I think she feels, deep in her bones, that if she doesn't follow through on her quest, she'll lose her way. If she goes back, even to refuel, she might not find it again. She's pretty desperate at this point.What she's ordered is for them to follow Leoben's directions back to a Cylon basestar to talk to one of their hybrids. What are the chances that they'd be allowed to take that ridiculous risk if they rendezvous'd with the fleet?

What she's ordered is for them to follow Leoben's directions back to a Cylon basestar to talk to one of their hybrids. What are the chances that they'd be allowed to take that ridiculous risk if they rendezvous'd with the fleet?

Yeah, that too. Should be very cool this week.

+1

I did this with a bunch of episodes (watch two, three, or four in a single sitting from DVD). It made a significant difference for me - flowed better without commercial skipping clumsiness, and the episode to episode tie-in seemed more effective.

But I can't wait while the episodes sit on the DVR. So I've decided to just watch 'em "live"/buffered now, then do the multi episode marathon watching when it is all said and done.

Yeah, I'm the same way. I just can't wait to watch them.

What she's ordered is for them to follow Leoben's directions back to a Cylon basestar to talk to one of their hybrids. What are the chances that they'd be allowed to take that ridiculous risk if they rendezvous'd with the fleet?

Seriously.

The hybrids are fascinating. They are the "brains" of a basestar, though seemingly more complex then then brains of the Raiders.

Since most Cylons except Leoben think they are speaking gibberish, it will be interesting to see what happens when Kara gets to talk to one.

I have been enjoying the episodes, but I think they would be better on dvd when you can watch a bunch of them in a row. The season so far seems to be one long story that you have to wait a week to get the next piece, which really detracts from the impact.

+ another 1.
Exactly. I've been enjoying this season but I can understand the frustrations some are having.
This series is closer to reading a book than watching a weekly series. Some time back in this forum Archiguy and Paladin mentioned how watching a particular Adama and Roslin scene was like watching a master acting class. One of them mentioned Eugene O'Neill. I enjoy the kind of "view within" we are getting this season.
Although I do wonder what the command forces are thinking and what is up with the Cylons, and . . . (so it goes - :) ) I guess I'll find out in due time.

I was particularly struck by Tyrol's very vocal rejection of Adama's sympathy in the bar scene of the Escape Velocity episode. Tyrol's eyes burned with a hollow fury. There was a lot of power in that scene; The intensity reminded me of Apollo's speech during Baltar's trial.

I really wish I could watch these final episodes in the same manner as I watched the first 3 seasons: Via DVD. The blackouts, where commercials are placed, seem to properly punch each act.

Only 5 episodes left this year. Damn.

BTW: I just finished watching season 1 of The Wire. Very, very good show. It reminded me of BSG in a couple of ways. Good writing and acting. Nice camera work. And a reliance on the audience's ability to be patient when everything is not immediately explained.

Only 5 episodes left this year. Damn

Say what??? I thought it was 20 episodes and done, are they stretching this out in 2, 10 episode blocks? When does it resume?

I have been enjoying the episodes, but I think they would be better on dvd when you can watch a bunch of them in a row. The season so far seems to be one long story that you have to wait a week to get the next piece, which really detracts from the impact.

When viewed like that, a lot of what people have a tendency to call "filler" comes into focus with the overall storyline. Something that may seem innocuous in stand alone viewing can become crucial in the grand scheme when seen in close sequence. This is one reason I've been downloading torrents of this season.:cool:

Say what??? I thought it was 20 episodes and done, are they stretching this out in 2, 10 episode blocks? When does it resume?

This season is 10 episodes, followed by the final 10 next year. I know, it sucks, but it was also always SciFi's plan to do it that way. They're afraid their network will drop off the radar screen again when this show ends, so they're going to drag it out as long as they can. It's also the reason they greenlit a sequel (actually prequel) in 'Caprica' hoping Ron Moore can hit another one out of the park. I know none of their other programming interests me.

This season is 10 episodes, followed by the final 10 next year. I know, it sucks, but it was also always SciFi's plan to do it that way. They're afraid their network will drop off the radar screen again when this show ends, so they're going to drag it out as long as they can. It's also the reason they greenlit a sequel (actually prequel) in 'Caprica' hoping Ron Moore can hit another one out of the park. I know none of their other programming interests me.

Curses! I knew that they were considering doing this, but I hadn't heard anything definite yet.

I am surprised they don't do 10 1-episode seasons to really drag this out (Shhh. Don't give the network any ideas!)

I am surprised they don't do 10 1-episode seasons to really drag this out (Shhh. Don't give the network any ideas!)

:D And ABC is doing the same thing with their hit serialized show, LOST. Dragging it out over 3 years in that case. The producers claim it was their idea, but.....

I have been enjoying the episodes, but I think they would be better on dvd when you can watch a bunch of them in a row. The season so far seems to be one long story that you have to wait a week to get the next piece, which really detracts from the impact.

Another "Bravo!" for this post!

Last season, I started to feel this way and I wondered why is it different? Well, last season was the first season I watched "live", not on DVD. It's hard to wait a week in between episodes and it does seem like it's dragging.

And yes, Moore said in one of his podcasts that they are doing one long continuous narrative this season. They've almost given up the structured one hour "contained" story. So, it's natural for some to feel like some weeks "nothing happens."

I am angry that we're going to have to wait until (probably) next year for the final 10 episodes. But I can't wait to watch these first 10 all in a row in a big Season 4 marathon. I really think it will be a much more effective way to watch the show.

I can't believe that, after watching those last two hours, even if I'd been watching one or two of them a day, I wouldn't still be begging for those two hours of my life back. Previous seasons had their slow spots, but I don't recall any portion of any season that dragged like those did.

I can't believe that, after watching those last two hours, even if I'd been watching one or two of them a day, I wouldn't still be begging for those two hours of my life back. Previous seasons had their slow spots, but I don't recall any portion of any season that dragged like those did.

+1

I can't believe that, after watching those last two hours, even if I'd been watching one or two of them a day, I wouldn't still be begging for those two hours of my life back. Previous seasons had their slow spots, but I don't recall any portion of any season that dragged like those did.

I know what you mean. And it's not just about it being "filler" episodes. One of my favorites was the "fight club" episode that a lot of people complained about as being filler. I thought it was great to see how the crew dealt with their stress. I don't need space battles, I don't need a story wrapped up in 60 minutes. I just need something that either provides great moments of acting and character development, or feels like it is going somewhere. Mutiny on the sewer ship: Great. Cally and Tori in the airlock: Great. Civil War among the Cylons: Great. Roslin's backroom politics & Baltar opening up his own branch of the FLDS: Snoozefest.

Anybody else notice the painting Starbuck was painting on the wall of the crapper ship? It had that same figure of the "light ship" she was painting on the Galactica. This all raises the question of "where does she get these paints?" Its not like you're running from the Cylons and say "lets stop by the art store before leaving Caprica." :)

I'll offer the most obvious explanation: a motivated artist finds a way. My theory: the paints were made from algae during that leg of the journey.

I am surprised they don't do 10 1-episode seasons to really drag this out (Shhh. Don't give the network any ideas!)

If you wish to be mean to SciFi, isn't that kind of what Razor was? A one episode season meant to keep the natives from freaking out and killing them during the wait.

I am angry that we're going to have to wait until (probably) next year for the final 10 episodes. But I can't wait to watch these first 10 all in a row in a big Season 4 marathon. I really think it will be a much more effective way to watch the show.

I have heard some claims to the effect that we will get the last 10 episodes this fall.

Season 4 would have been a 20-episode straight thru march, but the then upcoming writers strike kind of shot that to pieces.

They show runners had to get at least half-way to make it viable during the down time.

Season 4 would have been a 20-episode straight thru march, but the then upcoming writers strike kind of shot that to pieces.

They show runners had to get at least half-way to make it viable during the down time.

That's not correct. As I stated above, SciFi had already made the decision to split the last season into two parts over two years. The two-part final season was always intended to unfold this way; the writer's strike really had nothing to do with it. This was discussed extensively last year.

[...snip]

I have heard some claims to the effect that we will get the last 10 episodes this fall.

I hope that's what happens. But fall is the very earliest they could air the episodes at this point. Shooting won't end until the end of June at the earliest (may even stretch into July). Then, you have all the post production and effects work.

It would be nice if SciFi would be courteous to us and air the episodes just as soon as possible. But I've seen nothing from them in the past to suggest that's what they'll do.

What I'm pondering is the meaning of Ragnar, especially as it pertains to Tigh's will to fight fate. Ragnarok, in Norse mythology, is the place where the gods will fight the final battle of the apocalypse. But what makes Ragnarok distinct in mythologies is that the gods know they're going to die during the battle, yet they go bravely toward the final battle.

Since you went into Norse mythology... it is also worth mentioning, perhaps, that Odin (or Wodin sometimes), the "king" of the Norse gods, sacrificed one of his eyes to gain wisdom.

Sound like anyone we know?

Also, you have to remember that Moore said they ussually do these "talky" episodes out of nessesity. The small budget means they have to strategically have "talky" episodes, versus GFX laden episodes.

Look for some heavy eye candy later this season and in the finally.

Also, you have to remember that Moore said they ussually do these "talky" episodes out of nessesity. The small budget means they have to strategically have "talky" episodes, versus GFX laden episodes.

Look for some heavy eye candy later this season and in the finally.

Exactly. I've made this same point countless times, but some people still must think this show has a Big Four budget and support. It doesn't. They have very limited resources and have to marshal the big vfx sequences; you're not going to see a lot of that kind of action every episode. People who are "bored" with an episode really don't get what the show is about, seems to me. There's plenty there to entertain and fascinate in every episode. Some may be more compelling than others, perfectly understandable in a TV show, but I've never been "bored" with this show, nor have I ever, even for a second, thought about "dropping it from my DVR list"; that's just crazy talk. Hey, you want more 'Deal or no Deal' or 'CSI-Dogpatch'...? 'Cause when this show ends, aside from LOST which will have another season to run, that's all that's going to be left. The American viewing public seems to have no patience for complex serialized shows like this one.

Exactly. I've made this same point countless times, but some people still must think this show has a Big Four budget and support. It doesn't. They have very limited resources and have to marshal the big vfx sequences; you're not going to see a lot of that kind of action every episode. People who are "bored" with an episode really don't get what the show is about, seems to me. There's plenty there to entertain and fascinate in every episode. Some may be more compelling than others, perfectly understandable in a TV show, but I've never been "bored" with this show, nor have I ever, even for a second, thought about "dropping it from my DVR list"; that's just crazy talk. Hey, you want more 'Deal or no Deal' or 'CSI-Dogpatch'...? 'Cause when this show ends, aside from LOST which will have another season to run, that's all that's going to be left. The American viewing public seems to have no patience for complex serialized shows like this one.

Well put, archiguy!

I fear for TV after some of these current shows end their runs. We've had a stretch of really fine serialized dramas in the past few years (Deadwood, Sopranos, Six Feet Under, Dexter, The Wire, Lost, BSG, etc.). But you're right - people's attention spans just won't hold long enough to support them, and it's much much cheaper to produce the reality shows we see all over the place.

I hope Caprica will be picked up and will be something thoughtful and complex.

Exactly. I've made this same point countless times, but some people still must think this show has a Big Four budget and support. It doesn't. They have very limited resources and have to marshal the big vfx sequences; you're not going to see a lot of that kind of action every episode. People who are "bored" with an episode really don't get what the show is about, seems to me. There's plenty there to entertain and fascinate in every episode. Some may be more compelling than others, perfectly understandable in a TV show, but I've never been "bored" with this show, nor have I ever, even for a second, thought about "dropping it from my DVR list"; that's just crazy talk. Hey, you want more 'Deal or no Deal' or 'CSI-Dogpatch'...? 'Cause when this show ends, aside from LOST which will have another season to run, that's all that's going to be left. The American viewing public seems to have no patience for complex serialized shows like this one.

+1000

Now go tell that to the tivocommunity thread.
I am starting to wonder grade everybody is in. Maybe its video game thinking evolution. I really like the previous comment that the show is much better in a combined format IE watching them back to back.

Exactly. I've made this same point countless times, but some people still must think this show has a Big Four budget and support. It doesn't. They have very limited resources and have to marshal the big vfx sequences; you're not going to see a lot of that kind of action every episode. People who are "bored" with an episode really don't get what the show is about, seems to me. There's plenty there to entertain and fascinate in every episode.Though there have been requests from a few people people to "blow stuff up", I don't think that I, vfxproducer, MOREPOWER and others are asking for that. There have been a ton of essentially VFX-less episodes in the past that were marked "filler" that I enjoyed, but these are just dreck. Hell--there was a cool wrecked heavy Raider explosion in the previous episode and that didn't do anything to elevate beyond dreck. No amount of VFX peppered into that crap would have made it any more tolerable.

And don't get all condescending about who "understands" this program and who doesn't. I've watched the whole kit-and-kaboodle from the beginning: mini-series, every episode, every special, every webisode, read some of the blogs, several magazine interviews and listened to some of the podcasts, and I still think that the last two episodes were boring, depressing dreck based on actions by the characters that made no sense whatsoever, even considering their desperation. It was just plain bad television--I'm happy that you and others enjoyed it but that's on you.

-100

I don't have a DVR I can't enjoy several epis in a row like you guys, because I watch them with my best friend who has Sci-fi (and D*)...

Yeah I know they are streaming, but quality isn't the same...