I saw actress Kandyse McClure (who plays Dee) at a convention last month. She said that everyone on the set looks up to 'Eddy', and that he's like the 'Dad' of the set and is the rock that holds everything together. BTW, 'Dee' is absolutely gorgeous in real life. What you see on BSG and in photos don't even begin to do her justice.

It seems like the hybrid is the "missing link" as it were between the toasters and skinjobs.
Sharon: "No, more like an evolutionary dead-end."

The "skinjobs" never say "Cylon God"--they say "God" and insist that he's God of everyone, Cylon and Human. He is quite obviously a mystical, non-coporeal force.

I agree though that we've been given no indication of how Cylons evolved. They started as servants (and I have to think that the Centurions were created by the first Cylons, though it's possible that the Colonial made armed robotic guards--incredibly foolish, but possible). The nature of the first Cylons, how they organized themselves and created a revolt powerful enough to fight the Colonies to standstill is a complete mystery which will hopefully be exposed in the upcoming Caprica series. Hopefully we learn at least something more about it in BSG.

From the Caprica story line that was produced the original Centurions were designed for construction/heavy lift work. That is why they had no internal weapons such as the new versions have. The Centurions were designed by humans.

What if the hybrids are the result of experiments of human mad scientists to extend the usefulness of the slave cylons and the skin jobs evolved from there.

What if the final cylon is a detached hybrid cylon living on one of the ships? Seems to me that the hybrid is essentially as humanoid as any skinjob, makes good sense that the same model that runs the base stars is the final cylon model.

Plus if you took that actress out of the goo, gave her hair and some make-up, she could pass as one of Baltars groupies and already be on the show :)

It's NBCUniversal's way of spreading the cost out to make the show viable for them. Instead of all the costs lump summed into one year, they can spread it to two.

That doesn't make sense. They can keep the show on the shelf and wait as long as they want to air it, but they still have to pay the bills when they make the show. The cast, crew, and vendors who supply all the equipment aren't waiting until 2009 to get paid. The checks are being written now.

That doesn't make sense. They can keep the show on the shelf and wait as long as they want to air it, but they still have to pay the bills when they make the show. The cast, crew, and vendors who supply all the equipment aren't waiting until 2009 to get paid. The checks are being written now.

I don't run a multinational corporation, so I can't tell you their thought processes. I just know that was what I read (I believe it was an interview w/Moore).

Actually, the "original" centurion cylons DID exist in the new series. They were shown in Razor, including the "By your command..." line. So presumably the leader unit existed as well to negotiate the peace.

Something else, that only now do I notice (after rewatching the miniseries), is the very first shot where that old military guy is sitting at his desk in a space station, waiting on the possibility that the cylons should appear (after decades of absence). The paper materials he is thumbing through to stave off boredom clearly show line drawings of the "classic" cylon models that would be recognized from the original series. Perhaps it is even the last known form the humans had observed of the cylons before they "disappeared"? Imagine the shock that military guy had to not only see the first appearance of the cylons since decades, but also having zero resemblance to the cylons they had known. Then to top it all off, there is strangely a blond human to accompany the "obvious" cylons. Looking back at that scene, could you even imagine a better way to touch off this new series? It is one of those "well done" moments that utterly defines this body of work.

That doesn't make sense. They can keep the show on the shelf and wait as long as they want to air it, but they still have to pay the bills when they make the show. The cast, crew, and vendors who supply all the equipment aren't waiting until 2009 to get paid. The checks are being written now.

They can be seen as a capitalized expense if they are being distributed over a prolonged period. If they show them in 2009, they can budget them to be offset by ad revenue in 2009.

Actually, I'd say that Olmos is more recognizable. McDonnell's had a handful of awards nominations, but never won anything (correction: she won an Obie for some off-broadway stage production). Olmos has been nominated for an Oscar as well (Best Actor for Stand and Deliver) and won an Emmy and two Golden Globes (and nominations for other Emmys and GGs) and a host of more minor awards and nominations (see the awards pages for Mary McDonnell (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001521/awards) and Edward James Olmos (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001579/awards) at IMDb). He also has nearly twice the number of film and television acting credits, as well as several turns as director (including 3 episodes of BSG) and producer.

I said "most of the rest of the cast", I believe.

Something else, that only now do I notice (after rewatching the miniseries), is the very first shot where that old military guy is sitting at his desk in a space station, waiting on the possibility that the cylons should appear (after decades of absence). The paper materials he is thumbing through to stave off boredom clearly show line drawings of the "classic" cylon models that would be recognized from the original series.

In the Miniseries there is also an 'classic' cylon model in the Galactica museum (in a glass case).

In the Miniseries there is also an 'classic' cylon model in the Galactica museum (in a glass case).

On the last ep, on Galactica they're having meeting on how to proceed with the Cylon hub attack, they focus on a painting on the wall, of a Cylon centurion killing a human, then pull back to show Tights face. It was like heres a Cylon warrior and heres a new late model.

Anyone notice the shot, it really stuck for me at least.

I noticed it too. :)

On the last ep, on Galactica they're having meeting on how to proceed with the Cylon hub attack, they focus on a painting on the wall, of a Cylon centurion killing a human, then pull back to show Tights face. It was like heres a Cylon warrior and heres a new late model.

Anyone notice the shot, it really stuck for me at least.

Yes, just as they're discussing whether or not to betray the Cylons' trust, we got a tight shot on a Centurion killing a human. Nice.

That's such an interesting painting. Here's a link to a decent shot of it...
http://media.battlestarwiki.org/images/a/aa/Monclair2.jpg

It's weird as it almost looks medieval with what almost looks like castle ruins in the background. It's very stylized. Really cool painting.

Yes, just as they're discussing whether or not to betray the Cylons' trust, we got a tight shot on a Centurion killing a human. Nice.

That's such an interesting painting. Here's a link to a decent shot of it...
http://media.battlestarwiki.org/images/a/aa/Monclair2.jpg

It's weird as it almost looks medieval with what almost looks like castle ruins in the background. It's very stylized. Really cool painting.

Thanks the link dint work, after some digging I was able to find it.
http://media.battlestarwiki.org/images/thumb/a/aa/Monclair2.jpg/620px-Monclair2.jpg

No hotlinking at Battlestarwiki, unfortunately.

But go check it out anyway, really cool. Just go to the site and search "Monclair", and then click on the high-resolution option.

Its really strange that they do warp jumps, fly around and live on space ships, yet they use reel to reel magnetic tape recorders. :confused: They kinda look like the Nixon tape recorders.

I don't run a multinational corporation, so I can't tell you their thought processes. I just know that was what I read (I believe it was an interview w/Moore).

I can tell you their thought process:

SciFi is looking at what happened to HBO after The Sopranos went off the air and they're trying to buy time to make sure the BSG franchise survives BSG itself.

SciFi is smartly stringing for time so as to avoid that terrible "what now" moment that HBO suffered after The Sopranos went to black.

As a fan, I hate it. Especially as a fan who quit watching The Sopranos because I tired of them stringing it out.

But, I fault SciFi a bit less, since they really, really need BSG to keep putting eyeballs on their channel. HBO, with its resources, has no excuse for what happened.

It's hard to shoot down the basic business decision to string BSG out as long as they have. I just hope the movie-length content they offer between now and 2009 isn't just throwaway material like Razor, where they easily compact all of Razor's reveals into five minutes of content in one episode of S4.

I still think actually showing the semi-mythical Cain story was dumb. Half of what made Cain so cool was that all you hear is this bogeyman story about the days just after the attack. It works so much better as hearsay than being show outright.

But, again, I can't blame Sci-Fi for the business decision itself.

Its really strange that they do warp jumps, fly around and live on space ships, yet they use reel to reel magnetic tape recorders. :confused: They kinda look like the Nixon tape recorders.

Actually, you'd be surprised how much data is still being put on magnetic tape media. It's a cheap mass storage method if you're not too married to speed. Especially for long-term storage purposes, quality magnetic tape actually beats solid-state disks and hard disks.

Its really strange that they do warp jumps, fly around and live on space ships, yet they use reel to reel magnetic tape recorders. :confused: They kinda look like the Nixon tape recorders.

Isn't a lot of the analog stuff there because of the Cylon computer infestations that have corrupted and infiltrated most of the digital systems in the fleet?

No hotlinking at Battlestarwiki, unfortunately.

But go check it out anyway, really cool. Just go to the site and search "Monclair", and then click on the high-resolution option.

Just C/P the link into the addy bar in these cases, it will work just fine. Just can't click through a link.

Bickering posts removed. Please stay on topic.

No hotlinking at Battlestarwiki, unfortunately.

But go check it out anyway, really cool. Just go to the site and search "Monclair", and then click on the high-resolution option.

Yes, I forgot. Sorry about that guys. Thanks to MOREPOWER for finding the pic to post!

It's hard to shoot down the basic business decision to string BSG out as long as they have. I just hope the movie-length content they offer between now and 2009 isn't just throwaway material like Razor, where they easily compact all of Razor's reveals into five minutes of content in one episode of S4.

I still think actually showing the semi-mythical Cain story was dumb. Half of what made Cain so cool was that all you hear is this bogeyman story about the days just after the attack. It works so much better as hearsay than being show outright.

I rather liked Razor, so if these other movies are up to that quality, I'd be pretty happy. I just don't know what they could do 3 movies on.

I suppose they could do one from the perspective of the cylons, but I'm not sure if it would work. Or they could focus on the year on New Caprica....but Unfinished Business sort of already covered that. What else is there?

As much as I love BSG, I'd prefer if they didn't make the movies and just ended it with season 4.

Oh, kinda going back to Razor...we saw what happened to Cain when she didn't have someone chirping on about the civilian population. This is just speculation, but if Roslin is gone for any amount of time, it'll be interesting to see if Adama takes the same kind of turn (especially if Zarek becomes President).

I rather liked Razor, so if these other movies are up to that quality, I'd be pretty happy. I just don't know what they could do 3 movies on.

Razor was good. I probably over-criticize it. The production value was excellent.

My main beefs are, 1) the Cain story works better as a told story than a shown story and 2) I wish there was a little more meat from the bigger story. Beyond "Kara Thrace is the harbinger of death" there wasn't much there.

Overall I think it subtracted more than it added.

I think it would have actually worked better if somehow even Shaw got the bogeyman version of the story with Cain's second. Shaw was very good, especially for a throwaway character. I actually kinda regretted they didn't do more with her after seeing Razor.

It was OK. But, Razor was just a snack to keep us from eating the producers while we waited for BSG to return.

Why wasn't it on tonight?

Why wasn't it on tonight?

Memorial Day. It will come back next Friday.

My main beefs are, 1) the Cain story works better as a told story than a shown story and 2) I wish there was a little more meat from the bigger story. Beyond "Kara Thrace is the harbinger of death" there wasn't much there.



I agree. I love the movie, and have watched it quite a few times but seeing it happen doesn't have the same impact that it did when Fisk was telling Tigh about it. Those scenes with them talking are some of the best scenes I've ever seen, on any TV show or movie, simply captivating.

It was OK. But, Razor was just a snack to keep us from eating the producers while we waited for BSG to return.
LOL. There is a lot of truth to that.

I understand where you're coming from though. Sometimes what's said is best left unseen. They even did it within Razor itself with the Gina torture scenes. We never saw anything except the aftermath, but we knew what happened and that speech Cain gave Thorn before it began... O_o

But that being said, I still liked seeing it play out. And it did paint Cain in a different light...kinda. We at least saw her reasons for doing what she did (right or not). Actually, now that I'm thinking about Razor, I wonder if we'll ever find out what happened to Cain's sister?

Actually, now that I'm thinking about Razor, I wonder if we'll ever find out what happened to Cain's sister?

The Final Fifth! Or, would it be The Fifth Final!...?

She played Major Kira on Deep Space Nine for 7 years. And I could be mistaken but I think she did a stint on Babylon 5 as well.

Those definitely aren't her real teeth. :DShe also married (& divorced) Alexander Siddig, who ironically is a deadringer for James Callis (Gaius Baltar).

http://www.sidcity.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=1

She also married (& divorced) Alexander Siddig, who ironically is a deadringer for James Callis (Gaius Baltar).

http://www.sidcity.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=1

Aha, proving that Baltar is a Cylon! :D

She also married (& divorced) Alexander Siddig, who ironically is a deadringer for James Callis (Gaius Baltar).While ST: DS9 was running, I remember reading that she and Siddig dated each for for a long time and got married, all without letting the rest of the cast in on their relationship until Visitor got pregnant (they covered her pregnancy in the show as her having agreed to bear a child for Chief O'Brien and his wife Keiko). You're right--Siddig does look a bit like Callis, though Siddig is mid-eastern and swarthier, nephew of a former prime minister of Sudan.

Anyone else see this link (http://www.thrfeed.com/2008/05/battlestar-gala.html)about BSG's ratings?

Anyone else see this link (http://www.thrfeed.com/2008/05/battlestar-gala.html)about BSG's ratings?

Yeah, that's good news. Then again, with only three episodes left before another long hiatus, one has to wonder how this show will keep viewers around through another break. Of course, I'm not going anywhere, assuming I make it another year. LOL

It's good to know the ratings are up a bit since that gives SciFi extra incentive to go ahead with those three movies we've been hearing about.

On another note, the forum at The Envelope website is posting the episodes that have been submitted by the actors for Emmy consideration. Looks like Friday's ep, Sine Qua Non, will be a big one for Olmos, Bamber, and Hogan.

http://goldderbyforums.latimes.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1106078764/m/340102161?r=450102161#450102161

Lead Actor
Battlestar Galactica (Edward James Olmos - "Sine Qua Non")

Lead Actress
Battlestar Galactica (Mary McDonnell - "Faith")

Supporting Actor
Battlestar Galactica (Jamie Bamber - "Sine Qua Non")
Battlestar Galactica (James Callis - "He That Believeth in Me")
Battlestar Galactica (Michael Hogan - "Sine Qua Non")

Supporting Actress
Battlestar Galactica (Tricia Helfer - "Guess What's Coming to Dinner")
Battlestar Galactica (Grace Park - "Guess What's Coming to Dinner")
Battlestar Galactica (Katee Sackhoff - "Six of One")

Drama Guest Actress
Battlestar Galactica (Michelle Forbes - "Razor")
Battlestar Galactica (Stephanie Jacobsen - "Razor")
Battlestar Galactica (Lucy Lawless - "Razor") -- could be an error, was she even in Razor?

They've also submitted the show for Best Drama, of course, but no word on which episode was submitted.

I would love to see a couple acting nominations this year. This show has been criminally ignored in the BIG categories. Last year, they finally broke through with higher profile nominations for writing and directing, so let's hope the trend continues and we see even more recognition this year!

I would love to see a couple acting nominations this year. This show has been criminally ignored in the BIG categories. Last year, they finally broke through with higher profile nominations for writing and directing, so let's hope the trend continues and we see even more recognition this year!

We won't. I wish that we would, but we won't. I think the Emmy's are pretty much useless now. Even more so than the Golden Globes. I mean...Heroes was nominated last year. Heroes. LOL. I like Heroes, but that isn't great tv by any stretch of the imagination (Nor were most of the other noms for that matter).

When you have an awards committee that ignores shows like BSG, The Wire, Veronica Mars, It's Always Sunny, and Dexter just to name a few, it's pretty evident that they're pandering to the majority and not to actual quality. It's a shame really.

But speaking of the Emmy's, the LA Times keeps running ads for some kind of screening for a few shows, here's the link (right side of the screen): http://theenvelope.latimes.com/

If it wasn't on a Thursday, I'd try to get into the BSG one (maybe I should RSVP to see if any seats are still open?). It's a bit amazing that the other shows have 236 seats, but BSG has 800. I guess they're expecting a huge crowd for it.

And I don't think Lawless was in Razor either. O_o

moob, killing my buzz. :p

I know it probably won't happen, but the past couple years I've managed to get my hopes up even though all common sense told me it was a fruitless gesture. Didn't Dexter get a writing nom last year, along with BSG, or did I dream that? Hey, I take my simple pleasures wherever I can get them.

You're right the 800 seats for BSG thing is kind of neat. Maybe even a little encouraging? Whoops, there I go again, getting my hopes up.

Last year, Mary McDonnell had all the buzz for a possible nomination and it didn't happen. So, we'll see if we hear that again this year. She's actually been more deserving this season because they've given her more to do. And for goodness sake, Hogan, Olmos, Callis, Helfer, and Sackhoff all deserve to be recognized for their body of work on the show, but realistically, I agree it won't happen.

ETA: And yeah, I know the Emmy's are lame and don't "mean" anything, really. But you know, they DO mean something. They are recognition from their peers for a job well done. When BSG gets ignored, I say "well, they obviously don't know good TV". But if they got a big time nomination, I'd be so happy for everyone involved with the show. Because I know they'd be happy. Even just one major nomination would sort of represent the work of everyone on the show, so darnit - I want one! LOL!

Well, I am a glass half-empty kinda person. :p

Wasn't writing the category where they had like 3 Sopranos episodes, and then Lost and BSG? Or was it directing? I don't think Dexter got any noms...but I could be wrong on that.

I'm sure they'd be grateful for a nomination as well, but if Hogan didn't get one last year, I'm not sure what chance any of them have. The Emmys do seem to like giving awards to shows in their final season though, so I guess we'll see. Although Kristen Bell wasn't nominated when VM ended...there I go being pessimistic again. lol

But back to BSG, since SkyOne seems to be airing the next episode on Tuesday, does this give us hope for them airing the back 10 episodes earlier than SciFi as well? I've always wondered if they're under contractual obligation to wait (no one seems to know whenever I ask, and it doesn't seem like they are if the past is any indication). I know there'll be a break regardless because of the strike, but they may get a much shorter break. I'm wondering if SciFi would still air the back 10 in 2009 if SkyOne airs them earlier. Skiffy can't be that naive to think fans of the show would wait for it to air here...or that the ending wouldn't be spoiled months in advance by not only fans, but media outlets as well.

What they didn't submit Nana Visitor for best guest actress? mmmm

OK I give up on the awards if they don't even mention BSG in the next Emmy's..

According to IMDb (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0773262/awards), Dexter won two Emmys in 2007 ("Outstanding Main Title Design" and "Outstanding Single Camera Picture Editing for a Drama Series") and was nominated for a third ("Outstanding Original Main Title Theme Music"). No Emmy nominations in the catgories that people really care about, acting, writing and directing. It got Best Acting nominations from the Golden Globes in '07 and '08, both for Michael C. Hall, who was also nominated for best male actor in a drama in those years by the SAG Awards as well. The Writer's Guild nominated it for best Dramatic Series and best single episode of a drama for "Dark Defender".

Battlestar Galactica (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0407362/awards) did get an Emmy nomination in 2007 for directing (for the episode "Exodus, Part 2") and won one for VFX in that same year. It has won and been nominated for a smattering of other less prestigious awards, including some writing and acting ones. It really hasn't gotten what you'd called "major love" from the awards people, though.

I think you're right about Dexter, moob. I remembered wrong. I believe it was actually the WGA awards (or whatever they're called) that recognized Dexter.

I really hate this whole scenario with the scheduling of the back 10. I hope SkyOne doesn't get it first because I don't use "other means" to view the show, mostly because I don't have a fast enough connection. (I live in the boonies) I'll be the last BSG fan to get to see it, and I'm sure I'll be completely spoiled by then. They need to get together on this and show some common sense. SciFi just needs to make sure they air the show at the same time as SkyOne. If that's the fall, then so be it. It's going to be weird enough the next few weeks when SkyOne airs the episodes a few days ahead of Skiffy. Imagine if it was months ahead. I'm really unhappy about that prospect, though I certainly understand why some would be thrilled.

I just don't want this show to be ruined for me. After watching it for years now and investing so much in it, it makes me really really sad to think that due to some scheduling stupidity, the ending might be completely spoiled.

Anyway, enough whining! I remember an article about Season One where it talked about all the buzz generated about the show when it aired early in the UK. The speculation was that Americans were downloading it like crazy and it actually caused the ratings to be higher because of positive word of mouth. I'm afraid Skiffy will remember that and think it would apply in this case. However, I think it would be a whole new dynamic with the show ending, rather than just beginning. Who's going to watch the last few episodes again on Skiffy after having watched them over and over via other means.

On another note, have you all read about Aaron Douglas and producer/staff writer MarkVerheiden's reaction to the final episode scripts?

Verheiden:
http://verheiden.blogspot.com/2008/05/battlestar-galactica-how-it-ends.html

Scott Ian's blog mentions Douglas's reaction:
"It's lunch and I am in my trailer reading the last two episodes of Battlestar Galactica... ever. Wow... big day."

Of course I asked him if it was great...

"Frakking awesome!!! Best stuff Ron has ever written!! It will blow your mind. I just finished reading them and I am fighting a fruitless and losing battle with my tears. It is amazing... I have to shoot now after lunch and I am teary."

____________
Wow! I'd be more excited if I didn't know I'll have to wait a year. *rolls eyes*

It's going to be weird enough the next few weeks when SkyOne airs the episodes a few days ahead of Skiffy. Imagine if it was months ahead. I'm really unhappy about that prospect, though I certainly understand why some would be thrilled.

I just don't want this show to be ruined for me. After watching it for years now and investing so much in it, it makes me really really sad to think that due to some scheduling stupidity, the ending might be completely spoiled.


Relax, won't happen. SciFi has made a lot of questionable moves, but they're not bat-sh!t crazy. The final 10 eps will air simultaneously in Canada and the U.S. - probably next spring.

I just hope I'm still alive next year to see the end.

Relax, won't happen. SciFi has made a lot of questionable moves, but they're not bat-sh!t crazy. The final 10 eps will air simultaneously in Canada and the U.S. - probably next spring.

I hope so. I'm talking about SkyOne in the UK, though. They have aired the show early in the past and as moob said, it's not clear whether they will be under any obligation to wait for SciFi to air it here if the episodes are ready.

I hope I'm getting upset over nothing!

Relax, won't happen. SciFi has made a lot of questionable moves, but they're not bat-sh!t crazy. The final 10 eps will air simultaneously in Canada and the U.S. - probably next spring.SkyOne is a British satellite service that ended up running the first season of BSG some months before it ran in the US, making it all readily available for download on file sharing services before it aired here. Apparently SkyOne invested heavily in production of the series to earn that right.

The download situation was not a good thing for NBC/Universal, so it hasn't aired first on SkyOne since the initial season. (Neither has SkyOne co-financed it since then).

The next episode, Sine Qua Non, will air on SkyOne tomorrow night, barring a last minute change. Three days, I can handle. But months ahead of us would be a major problem.

When you have an awards committee that ignores shows like BSG, The Wire, Veronica Mars, It's Always Sunny, and Dexter just to name a few, it's pretty evident that they're pandering to the majority and not to actual quality. It's a shame really.

I don't think you understand how the Emmys are voted on. They aren't awarded by a committee. Here's how the "best program" awards are decided:

First, a ballot goes out to the entire Television Academy membership. Each member (there are several thousand) gets to vote for what they think are the best TV shows. They are not allowed to vote for shows they work on. From these ballots, the 10 series that get the most votes go to something you can think of as a "semi-final" round.

There, the Academy takes vollunteers who sit on panels in a theater and watch episodes of all the series. Then they vote and narrow the 10 shows down to the official 5 nominees. It is important to note that they are not judging the series as a whole, they are judging the episodes the producers decided to submit for viewing.

Then, another set of vollunteers watch the 5 nominated programs, and vote for the winner. You cannot vollunteer for this panel if you worked on the nominated shows or have a financial interest in them.

For the craft/creative awards (acting, directing, cinematography, visual effects, etc.) the voting goes through a similar procedure, but only people who work in that field are allowed to vote, i.e. you must be a cinematographer to vote for the best cinemotography award.

So if a show wins an Emmy, it's because some subset of people working in the industry genuinely thought that the shows were deserving of the award. You can say that perhaps the people who vollunteered to judge didn't have good taste, but I don't think its fair to say they were pandering. They have no reason to do so, since it's all secret ballot by random actors, directors, makeup artists, camera operators, and 3D artists. They get no benefit from giving out an award to appease the mass audience, and nobody will ever know who they individually voted for.

Battlestar Galactica (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0407362/awards) did get an Emmy nomination in 2007 for directing (for the episode "Exodus, Part 2") and won one for VFX in that same year. It has won and been nominated for a smattering of other less prestigious awards, including some writing and acting ones. It really hasn't gotten what you'd called "major love" from the awards people, though.

And the writing nom in 2007. But of course BSG has won a Peabody, which is, by far, the most prestigious award in television. Most people don't even know what the hell the Peabody award is, which is probably why it is so respected. Which leads me too...

And vfx, I know how Emmy's are awarded. I guess I just used the wrong phrasing. :p

When I said that they were pandering to the majority, I meant that they select shows that are recognizable for better ratings for the Emmy broadcast. This wasn't always true in the past, but it has become increasingly so within recent years. The panel members consistently select what's either popular with the public, or what's popular within the industry (or rather, about the industry). And then there's the issue of the panel members being idiots in the first place, or just being lazy and selecting shows/actors that they recognize (Remember when they nominated someone who was in a show for about 15 seconds?).

The fact that BSG, The Wire, Dexter, Veronica Mars, Deadwood, Friday Night Lights and so many more lower rated shows have never been nominated speaks volumes. Of course, they have all won a Peabody (with the exception of VM).

But back to BSG, looks like SkyOne did indeed air "Sine Qua Non" today. I guess I'll be staying away from anything BSG related until Friday. :p

And the writing nom in 2007. But of course BSG has won a Peabody, which is, by far, the most prestigious award in television. Most people don't even know what the hell the Peabody award is, which is probably why it is so respected.Sorry, I missed that writing nomination.

It's a bit egotistical of you to assume that awards are screwed up just because they don't choose to honor the things that are to your particular taste (and mine to some degree, though I was never much into Veronica Mars, The Wire or Deadwood; not a comment on their quality--their premises had no appeal for me so I never watched them at all). Just because a show has a large amount of popular appeal doesn't mean that it's not also of high caliber. There were plenty of nominations (and actual wins) for quirky stuff that I never heard of in the major Emmy Awards. Being a program which has never had much of an audience, and being a serial story that's difficult to appreciate if you only watch an isolated episode or two, it's impressive that they've managed to garner any nominations. It's unlikely that any given "volunteer" chosen by the Emmys to narrow the nominees has ever seen it before, since it's unlikely that any random American television viewer has.

Heres a short clip, cant say its a spoiler (be warned), more like a preview to wet your beak.
Adama grilling Athena over shooting Natalie.
http://www.hulu.com/watch/20481/battlestar-galactica-battlestar-galactica-ep-sine-qua-non

I don't think that clip's spoilery at all, and I'm someone who avoids spoilers the best that I can. O_o

And, yeah, it would be (I suppose it is actually) arrogant to expect the Emmy's to throw some noms out only to shows that I think are of high quality, but it isn't just me. Year after year critics, and viewers alike, constantly berate the Emmy's for their lack of "quality" nominations. I only watched the first season of The Wire because I wanted to see what all the hoopla was about, but I didn't really get into the story enough to continue to season 2. But I at least recognized just how good that show is (actors, writing, etc), even if it wasn't my cup of tea. Even if something isn't of a person's particular taste, it should still be evident whether or not it's any good. Like I said, the Emmy's weren't always in the state that they are now (I don't think that everything that's popular is bad either, but Heroes as quality tv? Really? I like Heroes, but come on...). I don't know why things changed, but they did...they just need to right the ship.

Also, if anyone here watches Sine Qua Non early from the SkyOne airing, can you do us a favor and throw a spoiler warning at us first before discussing the episode? At least until Friday? Thanks.

When I said that they were pandering to the majority, I meant that they select shows that are recognizable for better ratings for the Emmy broadcast.

I know what you meant, and my point is that it just doesn't happen that way. There are 13,000 members in the TV Academy, all of whom get a paper ballot for the first round of voting to select the 10 semi-finalists for Best Drama and Best Comedy. Do you think that pool of makeup artists, stunt men, pyrotechnics experts, camera assistants, directors, production designers, compositors, production managers, and actors are thinking to themselves "I wonder which shows would be good to nominate so the Emmy broadcast gets higher ratings?". Of course not. Everyone votes for the shows they think are the best. None of those people have any vested interest in the broadcast show ratings.

The same goes for the voting panels that narrow down the final nominations and determine the winner. I've served on voting panels numerous times, and I know I have never considered anything other than what I genuinely thought was the best show. And based on conversations I've had with other judges after the ballots were collected, I'd say that's true for most people.

Now, you may not like the results, or agree with them. But that doesn't mean the voters didn't genuinely consider the shows they voted for to be the best. It's conceivable that other people don't regard Veronica Mars as highly as you do.

I've actually had the good fortune to participate in a lot of awards show voting, both as a judge and as an impartial panel moderator, and in fact I helped create one of the televised industry awards. So I've seen the process from a lot of vantages, and I can assure you that people take this very seriously. The broadcast show ratings just don't enter in to the voting process for the Emmys or most of the respected peer group awards (DGA, ASC, VES, SAG, etc.).

I know that I've been nominated and lost before, and I can assure you that every time I lost to another show, it was because the other show deserved to win. I've never felt ripped off by the voting. Sometimes the winner was a really obscure show that could not possibly have won based on popularity. So I know the system works pretty well.

Also, if anyone here watches Sine Qua Non early from the SkyOne airing, can you do us a favor and throw a spoiler warning at us first before discussing the episode? At least until Friday? Thanks.Why are we suddenly worried about that? Episodes have been airing on Tuesday nights of the same week on Sky One all season (I don't know if it's aired on Tuesdays in previous seasons, but it may never have aired on the same day there as here). No one watching in England has popped in here to offer spoilers to this point, though it was a slight problem in the first season, since some US viewers did avail themselves of the illegal downloads, when it was airing months earlier there. (See this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5011320#post5011320) from back then; I'm ashamed to admit that I eventually succumbed to temptation and downloaded some :o).

But therein lies the problem. Other awards, like the DGA, WGA, Peabody's et al., aren't really public, or rather, popular with the public at large, and most of their winners and nominees are critically acclaimed (as well as being popular in some cases. But for comparison sake, take the WGA noms for 2008: Dexter, FNL, Mad Men, Sopranos, The Wire...winner also).

I should put it this way...because the Emmy's are voted on by thousands, then chances are the more popular series are going to be recognized, and smaller, less popular series, despite their critical acclaim, would be overlooked, regardless of their quality. This is why the process is broken.

And I don't think the creative arts awards are affected by this by the way.

michaelscott, I'm pretty sure the SkyOne episodes were aired the Tuesday after, not before. Because of Memorial Day, the tables have turned.

michaelscott, I'm pretty sure the SkyOne episodes were aired the Tuesday after, not before. Because of Memorial Day, the tables have turned.Okay--ever more reason why there's little danger of people who watch it in Britain hanging out here. I know that I wouldn't hang out in an online forum of people who get to see a show that I liked four days before I do, and there's got to be British site discussing this.

Okay--ever more reason why there's little danger of people who watch it in Britain hanging out here. I know that I wouldn't hang out in an online forum of people who get to see a show that I liked four days before I do, and there's got to be British site discussing this.

Except that the episode was available online at a number of peer to peer sites 30 minutes after it aired on SkyOne HD, and there doubtless will be people who have already downloaded and watched the episode who frequent AVSForum. So to those people, no spoilers please.

What can I say, I succumbed and have seen the episode. Mainly because I was afraid of being spoiled. Don't worry - won't say a thing. And I don't think I'll keep doing this for the last two episodes since people seem to be behaving themselves here and at Skiffy. :)

Cylon Baseships Run Windows XP? (http://gizmodo.com/393426/cylon-baseships-run-windows-xp)

Good for a chuckle, may contain spoilers.

Also if you think about it.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2129/2383464089_4cce663133.jpg?v=0

What can I say, I succumbed and have seen the episode. Mainly because I was afraid of being spoiled. Don't worry - won't say a thing. And I don't think I'll keep doing this for the last two episodes since people seem to be behaving themselves here and at Skiffy. :)

So, are there 3 episodes left in this "half-season"?

So, are there 3 episodes left in this "half-season"?

That's correct. The "finale" airs Friday, June 13th.

That's great! Saul Tigh for President!!!


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2129/2383464089_4cce663133.jpg?v=0

That's great! Saul Tigh for President!!!

He has my vote! Cant be any worse than the coming choices.

Fr@k yeah, I'd write him in! :D Skin-jobber for a president; hmm....

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2129/2383464089_4cce663133.jpg?v=0

Ahahaha! Wonder if McCain's wife is anything like Ellen Tigh? If he poisons his wife and takes to wearing an eyepatch.......:eek:

He has my vote! Cant be any worse than the coming choices.

After his disastrous turn in command of the fleet!:eek: Honestly, if it weren't for the booze and Ellen, he probably could have done a much better job. Everytime he wanted to make a decision that made sense, she'd push him out of it.:)

Fr@k yeah, I'd write him in! :D Skin-jobber for a president; hmm....

Hell yes. EYE'd give him a write-in vote in a second.:D

_____________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

http://www.the-robotman.com/

Now you can buy a life-size replica of a Cylon. (Sorry, no skinjob models available ;) )

$8k...YIKES!

I might pay $8K for a number 6.

I'd pay $8K for a #6 or $20k for two #6s. :D

OK, Start Dreaming Up the Funny Captions ... :

http://media.egotastic.com/media/pictures/0805/battlestar-bikini.jpg

I might pay $8K for a number 6.

Anatomically correct of course!:rolleyes:

........ :)

http://media.egotastic.com/media/pictures/0805/battlestar-bikini-01.jpg

:)

http://media.egotastic.com/media/pictures/0805/battlestar-bikini-04.jpg

I'd pay $8K for a #6 or $20k for two #6s. :D

How about one #6 and one #8????? :eek:

Dam one day left, someone please post a spoiler:)

Dam one day left, someone please post a spoiler:)

Tigh gave Caprica Six the cylon version of the clap.

Dam one day left, someone please post a spoiler:)

Go to BattleStarWiki.org. They already have spoilers for tonight's episode posted.

I've seen them. They mentioned something that I was sad to see. I won't say anything more.

Tigh gave Caprica Six the cylon version of the clap.

LOL. I wonder if you could get rid of that by resurrecting.

Go to BattleStarWiki.org. They already have spoilers for tonight's episode posted.

I've seen them. They mentioned something that I was sad to see. I won't say anything more.
Dang, almost wish I hadn't gone there, after reading, sounds like were getting strung along for a few eps.

What can I say, I succumbed and have seen the episode. Mainly because I was afraid of being spoiled. Don't worry - won't say a thing. And I don't think I'll keep doing this for the last two episodes since people seem to be behaving themselves here and at Skiffy. :)

I've seen it as well. I couldn't help myself once I found it online, plus I have less moral qualms about downloading TV shows than other material, as I don't think it is any different from recording the ep and stripping or fast fowarding the commercials. And as another poster has mentioned, if the UK gets the next 10 EPS before we do, I will absolutely download them.
I will also remain silent about spoilers.

I just read on the SciFi board that SkyOne is going to wait to air the next two episodes until after SciFi airs them. In other words, back to the regular schedule, so I guess they'll take this next week off. I kind of hope it's true, sorry to any UK friends here. I wish they'd both just air the darned thing on the same day! Why is that so hard? LOL

Anyway, the speculation is that Universal pressured SkyOne to wait until the US airing. I don't know if this will impact the airing of the back 10, but it sounds like Universal is aware of the issue. I'm guessing we won't see the UK air the final episodes long before the US.

I've seen it as well. I couldn't help myself once I found it online, plus I have less moral qualms about downloading TV shows than other material, as I don't think it is any different from recording the ep and stripping or fast fowarding the commercials.

Hey, whatever rationalizations get you thru the day. ;) Fact is that with DVR's, at least there's a possibility of seeing an ad that interests you and stopping your FF long enough to watch it. (I do that frequently.) Like it or not, that's still the business model that brings us great TV like this. Downloading shows from "illegal" sites without paying for them, like with CD's, just seems a bit too close to stealing - for me. But that's just me; everybody has to make their own choices in this new digital age.

I get what you're saying, archiguy. But the fact is, even though I've seen the episode, I will be watching it tonight. Watching it on my computer screen is nowhere near the experience of watching it in HD on my plasma with surround sound. :)

I get what you're saying, archiguy. But the fact is, even though I've seen the episode, I will be watching it tonight. Watching it on my computer screen is nowhere near the experience of watching it in HD on my plasma with surround sound. :)

'Atta' boy loco! Me, being a lucky TWC customer, I've got to wait for UHD's "rebroadcast" for that HD BSG experience. :( It'd be nice to see it that way first, but a guy's gotta' do what he's gotta' do; and I sure as frack can't wait.

archiguy,

I too have the misfortune of getting SciFi channel in SD. But Brighthouse is adding the Food channel in HD. woopee.

When does Universal rebroadcast Friday night's episode??

When does Universal rebroadcast Friday night's episode??Who knows? Typically months after the original broaddcast. They're not airing any portion of the series at this time--there's none of it in the guide for the next couple of weeks and it's not listed among the series on UHD's site. They did recently air Season 3.

They don't have time to air BSG. Instead, they choose to endlessly cycle through the 15 episodes that were made of Firefly and 13 episodes each of Threshold and Kipnapped. They're officially the network of quickly cancelled series :rolleyes:.

They're officially the network of quickly canceled series :rolleyes:.

Quickly canceled = cheap to acquire. :D But that's good to know about 'Kidnapped', as I missed the forth episode during its last UHD run; gives me a chance to catch it.

How about one #6 and one #8????? :eek:

I'm taking a 6 plus a 9 (Tori) put them together.. 69! won't mind a 3 and an 8 now and then..

I'm taking a 6 plus a 9 (Tori) put them together.. 69! won't mind a 3 and an 8 now and then..Id rather have one Boomer.

Reminder that torrent discussion or any other pirate-talk is not allowed at AVS.

Some posts deleted.

archiguy,

I too have the misfortune of getting SciFi channel in SD. But Brighthouse is adding the Food channel in HD. woopee.

When does Universal rebroadcast Friday night's episode??
My main reason for switching to DirecTV was for BSG in HD. All the other HD channels are a nice bonus. :p

According to the UHD forums, they'll start airing season 4 July 19th.

But like michaelscott said, they replay the same shows over and over again. I don't know why they don't just replay BSG from season 1. I don't pay the extra $5 a month for those 5 HD channels, but I would just for BSG.

^

I know there is supposed to be no talk of torrenting and such but this doesn't pertain to that so much as the broadcast source it came from.

Anyway I....umm....."acquired".....the last episode recorded from a SkyOne HD broadcast. Is it just me, or are there noteworthy differences between the version SkyOne broadcasts as compared to the Sci-fi channel?

Sound is much different (this is particularly noticeable during the opening taglines). The show also seems much 'brighter', as if it were lit differently while shooting. And motion just seems a little bit 'off'. Nothing I can define, it's just kind of different than what I'm used to seeing.

Issues with the broadcast aside, another amazing episode. I won't post any spoilers, but be on the lookout for another one of Lee's fabulous shirts. ;)

^

I know there is supposed to be no talk of torrenting and such but this doesn't pertain to that so much as the broadcast source it came from.

Anyway I....umm....."acquired".....the last episode recorded from a SkyOne HD broadcast. Is it just me, or are there noteworthy differences between the version SkyOne broadcasts as compared to the Sci-fi channel?

Sound is much different (this is particularly noticeable during the opening taglines). The show also seems much 'brighter', as if it were lit differently while shooting. And motion just seems a little bit 'off'. Nothing I can define, it's just kind of different than what I'm used to seeing.

Issues with the broadcast aside, another amazing episode. I won't post any spoilers, but be on the lookout for another one of Lee's fabulous shirts. ;)

Since it came from the UK, it would have been aired in PAL , that is the difference you may be seeing.

Amazing episode? To each his own I suppose, but I thought this was one of the worst episodes of Battlestar in a long, long time.

Did they really just give away the final Cylon in the preview for next week's episode?

I hope that was just clever editing, but you never know.

Either way, lots of anticipation for next week's episode.

Did they really just give away the final Cylon in the preview for next week's episode?

I hope that was just clever editing, but you never know.

Either way, lots of anticipation for next week's episode.

I didn't watch the preview, so hopefully no one here spills the beans.

Did they really just give away the final Cylon in the preview for next week's episode?

I hope that was just clever editing, but you never know.

Either way, lots of anticipation for next week's episode.

yeah what the hell???

I find Starbuck's emotional state to be very choppy...wasn't it just two episodes ago she was falling apart and dying to find Earth? Now it seems she's back to regular old Starbuck...I don't get it and it really detracts from this season.

Pretty cool that Adama finally admits to basically being in love with Roslin...

I knew they alluded to Ty knocking 6 up but damn, you go son! First Cylon and Cylon child? Could lead to interesting things...

Did they really just give away the final Cylon in the preview for next week's episode?

I hope that was just clever editing, but you never know.

Either way, lots of anticipation for next week's episode.

I doubt it....like you said, probably just clever editing. She could've been talking about anybody in the room.

I doubt it....like you said, probably just clever editing. She could've been talking about anybody in the room.

Seems like they are revealing it pretty early...I figured they'd save that for the mid-season finale?!?

Amazing episode? To each his own I suppose, but I thought this was one of the worst episodes of Battlestar in a long, long time.

Well, to each his own then.

I only wish there were more TV shows this "horrible" (as certain posters here claim BSG to be on a weekly basis).

I thought it was very good, just so much new stuff thrown in, wow!

On the previews for next week, the unboxed three said "you know of the final five, what you don't know is your one of them" then they show a startled
Roslin, did they just reveal the final Cylon? Roslin the fith Cylon?

Also it appears that Roslin is on a base star with the Cavils, So does this mean they destroyed the old damaged base star?

This show is slowly going down the crapper for me. Adama leaves the Galactica and the safety of human civilization to a DRUNK who is now boinking a cylon prisoner???? Have the writers changed for this season? Suddenly Starbuck doesnt care about "finding earth anymore"? Instead she cares about the crew and the pilots? Was last episodes' Starbuck and imposter? Suddenly offing a skin job is immoral and you get thrown in the brig for it? Did I miss the councils vote on a Cylon bill of rights? Some how Adama thinks that floating around in space alone in a raptor is going to bring Rosyln back? This episode had to be one of the worst pieces of crap they have ever come up with so far.

yeah what the hell???

I find Starbuck's emotional state to be very choppy...wasn't it just two episodes ago she was falling apart and dying to find Earth? Now it seems she's back to regular old Starbuck...I don't get it and it really detracts from this season.



Agreed. so many things are now so out of character for many of them.

Did they really just give away the final Cylon in the preview for next week's episode?


In the previews yeah. Maybe theres more to it.

I thought it was very good, just so much new stuff thrown in, wow!

On the previews for next week, the unboxed three said "you know of the final five, what you don't know is your one of them" then they show a startled
Roslin, did they just reveal the final Cylon? Roslin the fith Cylon?

Also it appears that Roslin is on a base star with the Cavils, So does this mean they destroyed the old damaged base star?

You left out the part where the unboxed three snaps Cavil's neck.

I actually liked the 30 second preview for next week episode better than tonight's episode.

Well, to each his own then.

I only wish there were more TV shows this "horrible" (as certain posters here claim BSG to be on a weekly basis).

I never said it was horrible. Don't get me wrong, an "off" BSG episode is still better than the vast majority of what's out there on TV, I was simply commenting that this felt like one of those "off" episodes.

The pacing was odd, the characters were unbalanced and inconsistent, and everything was just not believable. Lee becomes president at the snap of his fingers? Adama gives up command to a drunk that's failed before and just half-betrayed him by impregnating a cylon?

And since when does the military have to run strategic military decisions past the chorum? That doesn't make any sense at all and on top of that isn't consistent with the past 4 years of BSG we've seen.

Adama leaves the Galactica and the safety of human civilization to a DRUNK who is now boinking a cylon prisoner????
Well, who else should he leave command to? Who would be your pick? Helo's on the basestar that jumped away. Lee is the president. I mean, I guess he could leave command to Dualla. :rolleyes:

Have the writers changed for this season? Suddenly Starbuck doesnt care about "finding earth anymore"? Instead she cares about the crew and the pilots? Was last episodes' Starbuck and imposter?
Starbuck has already fulfilled her destiny. She found the baseship, she "led them all to their end". And if you don't like that explanation, consider that this is just one episode. It's entirely possible they'll come back to it later. patience.....patience.

Suddenly offing a skin job is immoral and you get thrown in the brig for it? Did I miss the councils vote on a Cylon bill of rights?

Uhhh.......she killed the leader of the rebel skinjobs. You know, their allies? The ones that were going to help them destroy the resurrection hub and find earth? Adama was reprimanding her for sabotaging the mission, not moral concerns. That seemed pretty frakkin' clear to me, I don't know, maybe you were not paying attention or something.

Some how Adama thinks that floating around in space alone in a raptor is going to bring Rosyln back? This episode had to be one of the worst pieces of crap they have ever come up with so far.

Uh.......once again..........do you not pay attention? He's waiting at the rendevous where they were supposed to meet. He knows it's foolish, but he can't live without her. That was like the major theme of the episode. Again, they pretty much spoon-fed it to us.

I hate to be an ass but if you're not capable of any deeper thought than what you're showing here you probably shouldn't be watching this show, much less criticizing it.

Did they really just give away the final Cylon in the preview for next week's episode?

I hope that was just clever editing, but you never know.

Either way, lots of anticipation for next week's episode.

If they actually gave that away in the previews, it has to go down as one of the stupidest things a network has ever done. Some of the previews this season have been very revealing, so I wouldn't be shocked. But my god, people! It HAS to be misdirection ... doesn't it?

I thought this was easily the worst episode this season. It's bad enough they make us wait to find out what happened to the basestar (when we already had to wait an extra week because of the holiday), but then we get an episode where very little makes sense.

I can rationalize Adama giving command to Tigh. It sucks, but if he's made up his mind that he's going to step down, who else would he give command to? Starbuck? Helo would be a logical choice, but he's on the basestar. Tigh's the only one with enough experience. And as bad as he can be, he's also done a lot of things to help save the fleet and Adama trusts him.

BUT ... how is Caprica Six pregnant by Tigh. So, Cylons can impregnate each other now? Is this the fundamental difference of the Final Five Cylons RDM was talking about?

IMO, Romo and Lee was boring and purposeless. We knew at the beginning of the episode when it became obvious that Zarek wasn't going to take over for good that Lee would end up being President. So, that whole thing was just so obvious. I admit I didn't know the cat was dead all along, but that was just weird. Didn't strike me as particularly interesting. Note: in the future (or past?) they have duffle bags that can mask the smell of weeks dead animals.

I think Zarek would make a more interesting president than Lee, but I hope I'm proven wrong. Or that Roslin comes back and slaps some sense into all of these people.

I never said it was horrible. Don't get me wrong, an "off" BSG episode is still better than the vast majority of what's out there on TV, I was simply commenting that this felt like one of those "off" episodes.

The pacing was odd, the characters were unbalanced and inconsistent, and everything was just not believable. Lee becomes president at the snap of his fingers? Adama gives up command to a drunk that's failed before and just half-betrayed him by impregnating a cylon?

And since when does the military have to run strategic military decisions past the chorum? That doesn't make any sense at all and on top of that isn't consistent with the past 4 years of BSG we've seen.

The "horrible" comment was not directed towards you or anyone else in particular. This is one of the best shows on television.....but you'd never know it by reading this forum from week to week. You'd think it was one of the worst. Every other post is some ridiculous half-thought out diatribe about how the show "sucks" now. Usually by someone who clearly lacks capacity for deep enough thought to even understand what is going on (I am not talking about you here, just making a general comment about certain other posters who I will not name).

I appreciate what you're saying to some respect, but I have to disagree with "everything was just not believable". Since the show began the characters have always shown irrationalities, rushed decisions and questionable decision making. How is this any different from some of the stuff that happened in season 1?

As far as the quorum stuff, I don't see anything that suggests that military decisions must go through them. I don't quite know where you're getting that from.

Really, a lot happens in this episode.

Natalie dies.
Caprica Six is pregnant.
Adama and Tigh fight. Adama steps down, hands the fleet over to Tigh's command.
Lee becomes President.
Jake returns. LOL

I mean, that's a lot of big stuff to happen in one episode. And yet, it was so strangely executed. I feel like they spent too much time on Lee/Romo and rushed through some of the other things that might have made it feel more organic.

Couldn't we have at least gotten a scene showing some concern for the people and Vipers on the basestar? Adama was the only person who seemed to care at all. Everyone else, including Athena who was missing a husband, was like, "yeah well, what are you gonna do?" It was bizarre.

Really, a lot happens in this episode.

Natalie dies.
Caprica Six is pregnant.
Adama and Tigh fight. Adama steps down, hands the fleet over to Tigh's command.
Lee becomes President.
Jake returns. LOL

I mean, that's a lot of big stuff to happen in one episode. And yet, it was so strangely executed. I feel like they spent too much time on Lee/Romo and rushed through some of the other things that might have made it feel more organic.

Couldn't we have at least gotten a scene showing some concern for the people and Vipers on the basestar? Adama was the only person who seemed to care at all. Everyone else, including Athena who was missing a husband, was like, "yeah well, what are you gonna do?" It was bizarre.

yup...maybe it was one of the episodes during the strike where they had to piece it together from many different shoots...thats the only explanation I can come up with. I've never watched a more dis-jointed and weirdly paced episode of BSG. I disliked Starbuck returning to head-of-the-CAP without any mention of her quest for Earth, its out of place and out of character. Just three or so episodes ago, they all thought she was dead. The entire episode was like this. One minute Adama is furious with Ty and fighting him and then next he's rushing to give him command and responsibility for 36k people. It was just an odd change in direction and needed some form of a transition.

Hopefully next week everything will get back on track...

For weeks Adama has been focusing on Roslyn. Reading to her and more. So when she is whisked away you don't think he might start going irrational. He in fact realized it after snapping at Tigh and decided to hand over the reigns rather than making decisions that did not have the fleet as the highest priority.

Well, who else should he leave command to? Who would be your pick? Helo's on the basestar that jumped away. Lee is the president. I mean, I guess he could leave command to Dualla. :rolleyes:


Starbuck has already fulfilled her destiny. She found the baseship, she "led them all to their end". And if you don't like that explanation, consider that this is just one episode. It's entirely possible they'll come back to it later. patience.....patience.



Uhhh.......she killed the leader of the rebel skinjobs. You know, their allies? The ones that were going to help them destroy the resurrection hub and find earth? Adama was reprimanding her for sabotaging the mission, not moral concerns. That seemed pretty frakkin' clear to me, I don't know, maybe you were not paying attention or something.



Uh.......once again..........do you not pay attention? He's waiting at the rendevous where they were supposed to meet. He knows it's foolish, but he can't live without her. That was like the major theme of the episode. Again, they pretty much spoon-fed it to us.

I hate to be an ass but if you're not capable of any deeper thought than what you're showing here you probably shouldn't be watching this show, much less criticizing it.

Not sure where to start on this dribble you posted.

ANy choice of command for protection of the human race is better than a sh*t faced drunk who is now boinking a cylon prisoner and will be the father of its baby. Dualla is a competent sober officer. Not a bad choice, its better than her wasteing time pouring coffee down his tigh's throat in the CIC trying to sober him up.. There is a sign of intelligence in that suggestion. Keep working on it.

Starbuck. She said she had seen earth. I guess she was mistaken. And if she is so now trusted why not leave command to her? She is the best tactician of all of them. at least she might not be passed out drunk or under the six's control when the attack comes. And oh yeah SHE isnt a cylon! :rolleyes:

I think many here have missed the massive joke the writers were playing on us. We have a rag tag human race that Lee wants to lead as president. Just look at the care and deliberation that led to that outcome. But he leads a basically powerless group. ON the other hand we have command of the Galactica, the only real power left in the human race and its command is tossed to a drunk cylon who has a bun in the oven of a cylon prisoner with virtually no deliberation. Too funny.

Starbuck has led no one to their doom...YET. SHe was not responsible for the civil war or the damage to the base star. the writers could have had Galactica stumble onto that dying ship rather than waste our time with this ridiculously unbelieveable destiny and the beacon in her head? I guess that was surgically removed? Or maybe GOD was doing it. :rolleyes:

I love to be an a## and if you're not capable of any deeper thought than what you're showing here you probably shouldn't be watching this show, much less commenting on it. I bet you liked the episode where Fonzie jumped the shark, Huh?

If they actually gave that away in the previews, it has to go down as one of the stupidest things a network has ever done. Some of the previews this season have been very revealing, so I wouldn't be shocked. But my god, people! It HAS to be misdirection ... doesn't it?
I can't see how it couldn't be, unless RDM decided (and this would be kind of clever) to actually give a big reveal away, relying upon how he has trained his audience to generally disregard the obvious, and instead, dig under the surface. Roslin has historically been my choice for the Final Fifth since last season's finale. In fact, I'm beginning to think Tori was introduced primarily as misdirection, to keep the heat off of Roz.

I thought this was easily the worst episode this season. It's bad enough they make us wait to find out what happened to the basestar (when we already had to wait an extra week because of the holiday), but then we get an episode where very little makes sense.
Since it is well established that I have very little regard for this series generally :rolleyes:, let me address the coimplaints some are leveling at this particular episode.

Gentlemen, for the most part, I agree with your concerns regarding this episode. The pacing was WAY off, and there was clearly a disjointed feel throughout, accompanied by moments that really didn't integrate, as well. The most logical excuse I can think of is that between the writer's strike and SciFi frakkin' around with the last season schedule, no one was keeping sufficient track of how everything was actually (not) fitting together.

And yes, there were certain touches that were somewhat remarkable, but nonetheless insufficient to right the damage. I mean, how can you FRAK up an episode that features the return of what had become my favorite (and probably other viewers as well) secondary character, Romo Lampkin.

What made Romo so great the first time around was his 'cool'. His approach was circumspective and low-key, with a deliberate overview that completely permeated the trial proceedings and the Adama legacy. So how did he become the often manic creature depicted last night? The loss of his loved ones? Way too formulaic from what we've come to expect from this show. My guess is the creative team got great feedback the 1st time around and wanted to give the performer another oppurtunity to strut his stuff. Unfortunately, they lost much of Romo's persona and charm in the process.

BUT ... how is Caprica Six pregnant by Tigh. So, Cylons can impregnate each other now? Is this the fundamental difference of the Final Five Cylons RDM was talking about?

Well, the REALLY important thing is just remember where you heard it first! :) ;)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13567148#post13567148

___________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

"BUT ... how is Caprica Six pregnant by Tigh. So, Cylons can impregnate each other now? Is this the fundamental difference of the Final Five Cylons RDM was talking about? "

Well, the REALLY important thing is just remember where you heard it first! :) ;)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13567148#post13567148

___________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

I woun't argue that the ability to reproduce may be one of the "fundamental" differences between the five and the stock models.....but if ths is so....why all the fuss about Hera?

If there is already a way for the Cylons to reproduce "in the human way"....

I woun't argue that the ability to reproduce may be one of the "fundamental" differences between the five and the stock models.....but if ths is so....why all the fuss about Hera?

If there is already a way for the Cylons to reproduce "in the human way"....
Because....with Saul and Six, we are talking about the reproduction resulting from 2 'skinjobs'.

With Hera, we are talking about the integration of cylon 'skinjob' and human. And isn't that where this whole thing has seemed to be headed for some time now? Integrating cylon and 'human' as part of the continuing cycle?

______________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

it cant be rozzy baby....she was in the picture.

it cant be rozzy baby....she was in the picture.

Haven't you learned yet not to trust RDM? :D He also said the Admiral pips on Tigh in an earlier episode was just a wardrobe mistake. LOL

Because....with Saul and Six, we are talking about the reproduction resulting from 2 'skinjobs'.

With Hera, we are talking about the integration of cylon 'skinjob' and human. And isn't that where this whole thing has seemed to be headed for some time now? Integrating cylon and 'human' as part of the continuing cycle?

______________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

That's been my impression. What I thought was going on was a great dynamic: the cylons decide they want to eliminate humans for whatever reason, but then realize that in order to "be all they can be", they need to have a human in order to reproduce. That which they have desired to destroy becomes the very thing they need for their continued growth and survival. Cool.

That's what threw me with the Saulsix union. If as two robots they can pop out a kid, who needs the humans? It kind of breaks down the construct for me.

So, I am putting that on hold for the time being and believing that there is a big UNLESS....somewhere in all this. That a cylon/human hybrid is truly something more than just about reproduction.

Of course I can speculate...given the spiritual overtones of this series...that cylon's don't have "souls" or a "spirit" since they are machines. An assumption would be that humans do. So, in addition to merely reproducing, they are looking to create a hybrid machine with a "soul". Or not.

If they are forbidden from even discussing the "Final 5", it isn't likely that they would figure in F5/O(riginal)8 procreation as a means to grow the species - and probably wouldn't even know that F5/O8 would yield offspring.

That's what threw me with the Saulsix union. If as two robots they can pop out a kid, who needs the humans? It kind of breaks down the construct for me.Exactly. What I think they should have done is, let the humans (Saul, Torri, Anders & Chief etc.) be humans but with some sort of Cylon implant chip, unbeknownst to them. Would've made more sense; to me anyway.

I woun't argue that the ability to reproduce may be one of the "fundamental" differences between the five and the stock models.....but if ths is so....why all the fuss about Hera?

If there is already a way for the Cylons to reproduce "in the human way"....

If that was true, then why didn't Boomer ever get pregnant when she was being banged by the Chief all that time? The Chief is one of the 5.

Not sure where to start on this dribble you posted.

ANy choice of command for protection of the human race is better than a sh*t faced drunk who is now boinking a cylon prisoner and will be the father of its baby. Dualla is a competent sober officer. Not a bad choice, its better than her wasteing time pouring coffee down his tigh's throat in the CIC trying to sober him up.. There is a sign of intelligence in that suggestion. Keep working on it.

Starbuck. She said she had seen earth. I guess she was mistaken. And if she is so now trusted why not leave command to her? She is the best tactician of all of them. at least she might not be passed out drunk or under the six's control when the attack comes. And oh yeah SHE isnt a cylon! :rolleyes:

I think many here have missed the massive joke the writers were playing on us. We have a rag tag human race that Lee wants to lead as president. Just look at the care and deliberation that led to that outcome. But he leads a basically powerless group. ON the other hand we have command of the Galactica, the only real power left in the human race and its command is tossed to a drunk cylon who has a bun in the oven of a cylon prisoner with virtually no deliberation. Too funny.

Starbuck has led no one to their doom...YET. SHe was not responsible for the civil war or the damage to the base star. the writers could have had Galactica stumble onto that dying ship rather than waste our time with this ridiculously unbelieveable destiny and the beacon in her head? I guess that was surgically removed? Or maybe GOD was doing it. :rolleyes:

I love to be an a## and if you're not capable of any deeper thought than what you're showing here you probably shouldn't be watching this show, much less commenting on it. I bet you liked the episode where Fonzie jumped the shark, Huh?

Reading this shows me I have no further use of reading your stuff. It's simple-minded idiocy. Your criticisms aren't legit, they're half-thought rants that show you lack any understanding of the dynamics of the show from the very beginning of the series.

I feel sorry for people that have this sick need to tear something down when they aren't even intelligent enough to understand it.

BTW, it's 'drivel'. Dribble is something you do with a basketball.

If they are forbidden from even discussing the "Final 5", it isn't likely that they would figure in F5/O(riginal)8 procreation as a means to grow the species - and probably wouldn't even know that F5/O8 would yield offspring.

Good point.

If that was true, then why didn't Boomer ever get pregnant when she was being banged by the Chief all that time? The Chief is one of the 5.

They practiced safe cylon sex? Good question.

As far as Tigh taking command, that would be the only choice. If he is judged incompetent, then he shouldn't have been the XO. As XO, he's second in command.

Only intervening issue was boinking the #6, and I don't really see that as any kind of aggregious lack of judgement. ;)

As far as Tigh taking command, that would be the only choice. If he is judged incompetent, then he shouldn't have been the XO. As XO, he's second in command.

Only intervening issue was boinking the #6, and I don't really see that as any kind of aggregious lack of judgement. ;)

And this is why I have a problem with how Leland has ascended to power. Why is Zarek VP if he's not someone who can take over as President if necessary? And he's still VP even under Lee!

I guess I'm just bitter because I am sick of Lee this season and I think Zarek as Prez would make a much more interesting story.

I will say that I am glad they got this whole "Lee becomes President" business out of the way because we could all see it coming and I was afraid it was going to end up being one of the revelations at the end of the series. At least I don't have to worry about that now.

As far as Tigh taking command, that would be the only choice. If he is judged incompetent, then he shouldn't have been the XO. As XO, he's second in command.

Only intervening issue was boinking the #6, and I don't really see that as any kind of aggregious lack of judgement. ;)

Yeah, that would be like blaming that 14 year old kid for banging his hot teacher! :cool:

I thought it was very good, just so much new stuff thrown in, wow!

On the previews for next week, the unboxed three said "you know of the final five, what you don't know is your one of them" then they show a startled
Roslin, did they just reveal the final Cylon? Roslin the fith Cylon?

Also it appears that Roslin is on a base star with the Cavils, So does this mean they destroyed the old damaged base star?

Guy guys guys, don't be fooled!

I think you guys forgot where exactly our friend Anders currently is...

;)

Oh, and how pissed is Laura going to be with Bill when she finds out that Bill left Galatica in the hands of a Cylon? ...Awkward!!

Guy guys guys, don't be fooled!

I think you guys forgot where exactly our friend Anders currently is...;)

If its not in the sack with Starbuck, then he's even a bigger idiot than I give him credit for. If I had to choose between riding that blonde palomino, or saving the universe, you guys would all be a bunch of Cylon prisoners by now. :p

__________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

I think Zarek as Prez would make a much more interesting story.

Agreed. I liked this last episode overall, but if Tigh was going to take over command of Galactica anyway, then the dynamics between he and the President in future episodes would be much more interesting with Zarek in the office. They are both such well rounded and damaged characters. Scenes between the two of them could have a much more interesting undercurrent than scenes between Lee and Tigh.

Plus, the marginalization of Zarek in this episode is out of character. This is a man who is a former terrorist who previously bombed a government building to make a point, already succesfully resisted martial law in the fleet once before, led a prison riot that forced a significant change on the way Adama worked with the civilian government, has connections to organized crime, and authorized death squads to seek justice against Cylon colaborators. This is not a guy who is going to stand around fuming while Adama ignores him. Especially when the military is in a weakened position, with many of their forces on the missing base star.

So I'm hoping that this episode was a set-up to justify something really interesting and devious from Zarek in future episodes. Otherwise, they just turned one of the most powerful and dynamic personalities in the show into a complete pansy.

Other than that, the story was great. But somebody has got to fire whoever is in charge of approving the promos for upcoming episodes. That was unforgiveable.

A
But somebody has got to fire whoever is in charge of approving the promos for upcoming episodes. That was unforgiveable.

No kidding. I hope what they did was just a fake out, because otherwise it would just be cheap.

I would say that it is a classic misdirection....

however, if the promos were done by the same idiots at NBC/U that put together Heroes, we're lucky they didn't show her eyes glow red to remove any doubt.

Starbuck has already fulfilled her destiny. She found the baseship, she "led them all to their end". And if you don't like that explanation, consider that this is just one episode. It's entirely possible they'll come back to it later. patience.....patience.I'm absolutely certain that they'll come back to it later. Starbuck fulfill the urge that was eating at her, finding the stuff that she was driven to lead them to--the ringed planet, the shooting star, etc. She assumed that it was Earth, but it was just the battlefield of the first battle in the Cylon civil war, where they found people who could help them find Earth.

I'm absolutely certain that they'll come back to it later. Starbuck fulfill the urge that was eating at her, finding the stuff that she was driven to lead them to--the ringed planet, the shooting star, etc. She assumed that it was Earth, but it was just the battlefield of the first battle in the Cylon civil war, where they found people who could help them find Earth.

They have to re-visit it. When she made her return, she said she had been to Earth and she knew the way.

... I've never watched a more dis-jointed and weirdly paced episode of BSG. ...
My sentiments exactly. May be the first episode I felt completely apart from the experience of watching it.

And stupidly, the part I don't get is what's with Romo's cats? He keeps one around just to talk to but doesn't feed, plus has the years-old dead family kitty in a keep-fresh stasis bag?

And stupidly, the part I don't get is what's with Romo's cats? He keeps one around just to talk to but doesn't feed, plus has the years-old dead family kitty in a keep-fresh stasis bag?

:rolleyes:

Ugh.............

the cat we kept seeing throughout the episode was the dead cat. He was seeing it in his mind.

Are people seriously this dense? I really don't want to hear about how bad this episode was from somebody who doesn't even have the mental capacity to understand that the freakin' cat was imaginary.

Good grief.

:rolleyes:

This show is slowly going down the crapper for me. Adama leaves the Galactica and the safety of human civilization to a DRUNK who is now boinking a cylon prisoner???? Have the writers changed for this season? Suddenly Starbuck doesnt care about "finding earth anymore"? Instead she cares about the crew and the pilots? Was last episodes' Starbuck and imposter? Suddenly offing a skin job is immoral and you get thrown in the brig for it? Did I miss the councils vote on a Cylon bill of rights? Some how Adama thinks that floating around in space alone in a raptor is going to bring Rosyln back? This episode had to be one of the worst pieces of crap they have ever come up with so far.I thought the pacing problems were just the mood I was in...

But Adama stepping down was believable, given his preoccupation and lack of desire to deal with Vice President Zarek.

I also thought Starbuck's redemption was touched lightly, but if the Cylon Civil War system was the place she was driven to, she might have a load off her mind, and plenty of sobering events (Mutiny, Gaeta's leg, hybrid's prophesy, Roslin's visions, etc.) to get her back into a military bearing phase, however long or short...

I thought the reaction to Athena shooting Natalie was heightened because the Rebel Basestar jumped about the same time. I was expecting to see them make the default assumption that Athena's actions predicated the Rebels taking President Roslin and the others away. If Admiral Adama even considered it, only the fact that she is a female with a child probably saved her.

... more interesting undercurrent than scenes between Lee and Tigh. Plus, the marginalization of Zarek in this episode is out of character. ... former terrorist ... succesfully resisted martial law ... led a prison riot ... has connections to organized crime ... authorized death squads ... This is not a guy who is going to stand around fuming while Adama ignores him. ... Otherwise, they just turned one of the most powerful and dynamic personalities in the show into a complete pansy.But was ideology and the desire to see things done [right] (his view) not part of his rebellion? IMO, his goal was always to get into a position to drive things toward his ideal system of government. Once he got there, I would expect him to begin to act to preserve the system and procedures in a way that Roslin would never feel bound to, as she sees politics as a means to the end, but to Zarek, the system was the end. "A young man who is not a liberal has no heart. An old man who is not a conservative has no brain." that some attribute to Churchill.

Sitting in "the chair" (arguably also the vice chair) is a very different perspective. And he was in the mental state of trying to achieve something / lead instead of the [no pressure] position of taking critical shots from the [peanut gallery].

Not to mention that he was probably get caught up (or bogged down) in a lot of paperwork and lower [visibility/criticality] politics that he was not expecting, which may have "thrown him off his game".

If they are forbidden from even discussing the "Final 5", it isn't likely that they would figure in F5/O(riginal)8 procreation as a means to grow the species - and probably wouldn't even know that F5/O8 would yield offspring.Should that not be O7?

They have to re-visit it. When she made her return, she said she had been to Earth and she knew the way.
Was the planetary readings and gun camera footage shown to be Saturn, Jupiter, and Earth?

Alternatively, when did Starbuck become confused and drawn instead to the Cylon Civil War system?


v/r,
C-F

I'm absolutely certain that they'll come back to it later. Starbuck fulfill the urge that was eating at her, finding the stuff that she was driven to lead them to--the ringed planet, the shooting star, etc. She assumed that it was Earth, but it was just the battlefield of the first battle in the Cylon civil war, where they found people who could help them find Earth.

I'm sure they will come back to it. In the meantime she's just going about her business. Why that is so incomprehensible to some people here, I don't know.

Agreed. I liked this last episode overall, but if Tigh was going to take over command of Galactica anyway, then the dynamics between he and the President in future episodes would be much more interesting with Zarek in the office. They are both such well rounded and damaged characters. Scenes between the two of them could have a much more interesting undercurrent than scenes between Lee and Tigh.


Lee and Tigh have had some pretty interesting conflicts in the past. Lee was mutinous and escaped with Roslin from Gallactica's brig. Tigh was not pleased with the "Old man" forgiving him and bringing him back as an officer. Although a Final Five, he is all about loyalty.

Alternatively, when did Starbuck become confused and drawn instead to the Cylon Civil War system?


She was never drawn there. She "lost" the way to Earth aboard the Demetrius. The gas giant (the planet she was painting on the wall) was the only thing she remembered.

Actually, what I'm thinking is that she never knew the way to Earth. She may have never even been there. It may have just been a way to manipulate her into fulfilling her destiny (leading the Cylons to their end) by who/whatever mystical force pulls the strings in the Galactica universe (and I think it's safe to say that something is, at this point).

:rolleyes:

Ugh.............

the cat we kept seeing throughout the episode was the dead cat. He was seeing it in his mind.

Are people seriously this dense? I really don't want to hear about how bad this episode was from somebody who doesn't even have the mental capacity to understand that the freakin' cat was imaginary.

Good grief.

:rolleyes:
Ahhhhhhhhh ... I see now. So the cat was Romo's CHIP kitty. Thanks for clearing that up.

They have to re-visit it. When she made her return, she said she had been to Earth and she knew the way.She thought she'd been to Earth and she was irresistibly drawn to get "there", but that battlefield was the place haunting her memories. She found it and the irresistible urge to get there is gone. To get to Earth, they're banking on the identifying the Final Five, who supposedly have come from there and presumably know how to get back: "The missing three will give you the five, who have come from the home of the thirteenth."

As for my take on the quality of the episode, it probably wasn't the best plotted and written ever, but it was interesting. Many things happened to advanced the main plot. It was not even on the same level of positive dreckiness of the very worst episodes, those being "Escape Velocity" and "The Road Less Traveled". I have still not forgiven them for robbing me of those two hours of my life. When I buy HD discs of this series and watch it over again, I will not watch those--I will read the synoses to gain what miniscule bit of plot they contained and move on. If they're on a single disc by themselves, I will incinerate it, with glee.

michaeltscott,

I figured you'd be on here raving about how awful this episode was. I mean, I cringed at several points and there aren't many people who are stronger defenders of this show than I am (big angry, notwithstanding ;) ). LOL

Isn't it interesting how we can view the exact same thing and all come away with such differing impressions? I thought this was the worst of the season by far. Although what saves it is that a lot of stuff did actually happen. So, it's definitely no Woman King or Black Market. I just think the execution was horribly off.

Oh well, here's to next week!

Cannon-Fodder already covered much of what I was going to say, but...

In regards to Starbuck "suddenly" acting normal again...she was normal all of last episode as well. Half of the pilots are on the Baseship, so seeing her revert to "serious pilot" mode isn't really surprising.

In regards to putting a drunk in charge of the fleet...when was the last time we saw Tigh take a drink? We've seen Adama drinking a lot more than Tigh this season I think.

I thought this episode was pretty good, but it was indeed the worst of the season (I liked both Escape Velocity and TRLT). The whole Lee thing was just too contrived. We all knew he was going to be President for a while now, so there was no need to drag that out. I've stayed away from the preview for the next episode so whenever I see you guys discussing it I quickly scroll down. :p

By the way, big angry, can we tone down the personal attacks just a bit? Just because someone doesn't understand something that seems simple to you doesn't make them dense. And granted, hating BSG seems to be the "in" thing, but you could just ignore them.

Edit: loco, I don't think we'll see another Black Market or Woman King or Day in the Life in the last 12 episodes myself. There just isn't enough time for another one of those. lol

I watched last night's episode again and noticed something I missed. First, I am visiting family in S. Florida and had my first opportunity to watch it for the first time in HD. I was really disappointed. It was grainy and a little fuzzy. Pretty much what the DVD's looks like. And the audio was pretty awful, too. So, I watched it with CC on today. As she is dying, Natalie looks at Doc Cottle and says, "Heavenly father" and envisions a forest scene similar to the one the Caprica 6 projected when she explained to Baltar how they can project . She then reaches out to him and says, "Heavenly", just before she flat lines. Hmmm.

michaeltscott,

I figured you'd be on here raving about how awful this episode was. I mean, I cringed at several points and there aren't many people who are stronger defenders of this show than I am (big angry, notwithstanding ;) ). LOL

Isn't it interesting how we can view the exact same thing and all come away with such differing impressions? I thought this was the worst of the season by far.Meh--it weren't pretty, but it moved right along. No seemingly hours and hours of Baltar prattling endless about his religious beliefs to a grungy group of pathetic women, no Starbuck languishing in the brig screaming and render her garments every time they jump, no goofy bits of useless drama between Baltar and the Chief (in fact, no Baltar, no Chief--doesn't get better than that in my book :)), no group of officers fretting about the aimless moves of Starbuck, an obviously deranged woman whom no sane person would ever have placed in charge of them (no--not even someone who loved her dearly :rolleyes:). I swear to you, I'd literally rather have pointless root canal surgery than watch either "Escape Velocity" and "The Road Less Traveled" over again. Last night's episode was a delight in comparison :D.

I watched last night's episode again and noticed something I missed. First, I am visiting family in S. Florida and had my first opportunity to watch it for the first time in HD. I was really disappointed. It was grainy and a little fuzzy. Pretty much what the DVD's looks like. And the audio was pretty awful, too. So, I watched it with CC on today. As she is dying, Natalie looks at Doc Cottle and says, "Heavenly father" and envisions a forest scene similar to the one the Caprica 6 projected when she explained to Baltar how they can project . She then reaches out to him and says, "Heavenly", just before she flat lines. Hmmm.

She was reciting the Cylon "Prayer to the Cloud of the Unknowing". The Cylons that were dying from the virus on the basestar last season said the same prayer. It goes a little somethin' like this:

Heavenly father,
grant us the strength...the wisdom
and above all
a measure of acceptance

(According to the Battlestarwiki)

By the way, big angry, can we tone down the personal attacks just a bit? Just because someone doesn't understand something that seems simple to you doesn't make them dense. And granted, hating BSG seems to be the "in" thing, but you could just ignore them.


I've considered it, but since they don't have the common courtesy to refrain from littering up a good discussion with juvenile whining, I don't feel the need for any kind of polite tolerance of idiotic viewpoints. Particularly when said viewpoints seem to be coming mostly from people who fail to comprehend very basic tenets of the show.

I'm tired of the whole culture of criticism these days. People think they have the right to tear people and things down and not be held accountable for it. If the greatest piece of literature in the history of man was published tomorrow you'd have a million douchebags on the internet whining about how it wasn't good enough.

I have no tolerance for ignorance. Nor do I have tolerance for opinions based in it.

I've considered it, but since they don't have the common courtesy to refrain from littering up a good discussion with juvenile whining, I don't feel the need for any kind of polite tolerance of idiotic viewpoints. Particularly when said viewpoints seem to be coming mostly from people who fail to comprehend very basic tenets of the show.

I'm tired of the whole culture of criticism these days. People think they have the right to tear people and things down and not be held accountable for it. If the greatest piece of literature in the history of man was published tomorrow you'd have a million douchebags on the internet whining about how it wasn't good enough.

I have no tolerance for ignorance. Nor do I have tolerance for opinions based in it.

Must be cold up there on that pedestal, make sure you bring a jacket.

Seriously though, there are a whole world of people out there giving outlandish ratings to American Idol, Procedural Crime Drama #47, and Reality Show #93 and people that didn't like an episode of one of the deepest shows on TV are the ones you choose to claim are the dregs of society?

I really do apologize that no one else in the world is intelligent enough to hold a conversation with you, but you'll just have to talk in baby-speak for all us on this here techy forum.

I'm tired of the whole culture of criticism these days. People think they have the right to tear people and things down and not be held accountable for it. If the greatest piece of literature in the history of man was published tomorrow you'd have a million douchebags on the internet whining about how it wasn't good enough.


I understand what you mean. I've known a couple of guys who can't watch a single movie or TV show without nitpicking and complaining about something or everything that pops into their head. I actually wonder if some people are actually capable of relaxing and enjoying something without over analyzing to the point of finding something that they simply perceive to be wrong. If you can't tolerate it on the internet, try being around someone doing it in person. THAT is irritating, especially in a theater.

Keep in mind that while such people can be unpleasant, it is equally unpleasant to demean others because of it. Although, with a screen name like Big Angry.......

They have to re-visit it. When she made her return, she said she had been to Earth and she knew the way.+1
So somehow starbuck had a beacon in her head to the battle site? How? Did the cylons capture her, implant a chip and return her in a brand new ship? Also implant er visionof her visiting earth? I must have missed the explaination. But oh yeah, I am the one that doesnt understand the show. :rolleyes:

She was never drawn there. She "lost" the way to Earth aboard the Demetrius. The gas giant (the planet she was painting on the wall) was the only thing she remembered.

Actually, what I'm thinking is that she never knew the way to Earth. She may have never even been there. It may have just been a way to manipulate her into fulfilling her destiny (leading the Cylons to their end) by who/whatever mystical force pulls the strings in the Galactica universe (and I think it's safe to say that something is, at this point).
A mystical force eh? Now the supernatural has entered the show? Isupose this force also outfittd her with a new viper too. :rolleyes:

BTW, it's 'drivel'. Dribble is something you do with a basketball..Obviousy you are ignorant of all of the meanings of the word "dribble" as in worthless drool coming from his mouth.

Time to just calm down, take a deep breath, and realize we still have a dozen or so episodes to go before, as it says in the intro, all will be revealed. Verbano, especially, needs to take a patience pill and allow them to pull these plot threads together as they no doubt have planned. While some episodes may be weaker than others, this show is never, ever "bad". Good grief.

I certainly didn't think it was a terribly weak episode, although I have two minor quibbles. First, I don't know how they managed to circumvent their constitution in "appointing" Lee as President. Zarek was next in the line of succession, and he should have taken over in Laura's absence, period. It seemed like they had some alternative means of choosing a leader, but if so, why do they bother with elections? Geez, you'd think this was the U.S. or something where the Supreme Court could choose the Prez...;)

Secondly, as to Admiral Adama's sudden reversal, we've seen that happen a few times before. He's profoundly against something, then he reconsiders it and does the right thing at the end. Not only was his judgment clouded with regard to Roselin, he was also irrational concerning Zarek. He'd always been a big defender of the Colonial Constitution and civilian authority no matter what, so how could he justify not recognizing that Zarek assumed power rightly and recognizing that fact? And, when he stepped down, doesn't that imply that the whole reason for having someone else assume power fade away? Shouldn't Lee relinquish power back to Zarek now that Adama is "out of the way" for awhile? At any rate, the Admiral's actions are consistent with his behavior in the series so far, if a bit more extreme. And I guess the producers just finally bought that very expensive ship model that Eddie Olmos destroyed once before, so they could bust it up again. :p

I was kind of surprised to discover Tigh had knocked up Six. Didn't even know they were boning, just fighting down there in her cell. Guess his psychosis with regard to his new identity and residual guilt over Ellen caused him to forget who was his bonee, as it were. In any event, it does sort of upset the apple cart with regard to Cylons not being able to get pregnant by other Cylons, and as one poster noted, how does that jive with Boomer and the Chief? Interesting...

I also enjoyed the return of Romo Lampkin. His going off the deep end there at the end just goes to show how tenuous the hold on reality is for these people who have been traumatized beyond belief. That stupid cat was his last connection with his former life (and continues the theme of "head" apparations that allow the characters to work through their issues - a peak inside their "real" heads). Romo was never going to actually shoot Lee, but that confrontation was necessary to get him to "snap out of it" and regain his psychological footing. These two have a deepening friendship and Lee was probably the only one who could have jerked him back to full sanity. Besides, it provided a setting for some great BSG-type dialog between these two characters, both of whom find themselves at a crossing point in their lives.

Anyway, these are nits, people. This is still the second best show on TV, IMO (behind LOST, although it's a close call - some weeks I put this one first. :p ). Let's just try to enjoy it while we've got it and, for the love of gods, let's try to have a little patience, okay? Let 'em finish telling their story. It's been a good one so far, right?

Anyway, these are nits, people. This is still the second best show on TV, IMO (behind LOST, although it's a close call - some weeks I put this one first. :p ). Let's just try to enjoy it while we've got it and, for the love of gods, let's try to have a little patience, okay? Let 'em finish telling their story. It's been a good one so far, right?

And that's a good point (although I would put Lost second behind BSG ;)). People shouldn't confuse 'Nits' with 'tearing down' the show. After all, how boring would this thread be if all eveyone did was come here week after week saying how great and perfect the show is? The show isn't perfect, and it has it's flaws. And fans of the show have every right to give their opinion on individual episodes both pro and con.

BTW, I was confused about the cat too.

I was surprised right when Adama told Boomer she committed "murder" on an innocent person ...
Seemed like a line he would have never said, regardless of his anger or strategic goals ...a big change from thinking of Cylons as Frakkin' machines with no rights .... He now thinks of cylons as people, apparently ....

The last few episodes seem to move slow to me .... Dragging out the whole Lee SUBPLOT thing for the entire hour, when we all knew the answer to "Gee, who could we find that Adama would trust" .... About 40 mins in, I thought "geez, I guess this will drag out for the whole episode" ..

I was surprised right when Adama told Boomer she committed "murder" on an innocent person ...
Seemed like a line he would have never said, regardless of his anger or strategic goals ...a big change from thinking of Cylons as Frakkin' machines with no rights .... He now thinks of cylons as people, apparently ....

The last few episodes seem to move slow to me .... Dragging out the whole Lee SUBPLOT thing for the entire hour, when we all knew the answer to "Gee, who could we find that Adama would trust" .... About 40 mins in, I thought "geez, I guess this will drag out for the whole episode" ..

The whole Lee becoming a politician thing to me has been a bit contrived from the get go. After all, we've been down this road before with Lee. And he ended back up by Adama's side. Plus, it seems like an awful lot of movement in a very short time period. I can't help but think that in real life, being in the middle of this war with Cylons, facing extinction, and being short of qualified personel on the military side of things, that Lee would have 'jumped ship' (no pun intended) and go off to play with a bunch of do-nothing, self absorbed politicians.

A mystical force eh? Now the supernatural has entered the show? Isupose this force also outfittd her with a new viper too. :rolleyes:

If you can manufacture a #6, I wouldn't think a Viper would much trouble at all. ;)

I was surprised right when Adama told Boomer she committed "murder" on an innocent person ...
Seemed like a line he would have never said, regardless of his anger or strategic goals ...a big change from thinking of Cylons as Frakkin' machines with no rights .... He now thinks of cylons as people, apparently ....If he didn't think that Natalie was a "person" would could be murdered then he didn't think much of Sharon Agathon, either, since she was no less of a Cylon. In addition to being an innocent murder victim, Natalie was only there because he'd invited her to come discuss their military collaboration; she wasn't a prisoner--she was Adama's guest.

Earlier, vurbano remarked that he was surprised that Sharon should be thrown in the brig for killing a Cylon--well Cally was thrown in the brig (albeit only briefly) for killing a Cylon (Sharon "Boomer" Valerii), who'd just shot Adama himself. Natalie was trying ostensibly trying to help them, though she had her good price for that. What do you expect? That'd he'd slap her on the back and say, "Alright! Way t'go! The fate of the fleet might rest on our doing this ressurection hub destroying mission with them, but I'm sure they'll select another leader and send it over to negotiate." :rolleyes:
I can't help but think that in real life, being in the middle of this war with Cylons, facing extinction, and being short of qualified personel on the military side of things, that Lee would have 'jumped ship' (no pun intended) and go off to play with a bunch of do-nothing, self absorbed politicians.What do you mean "do nothing"? Do you think that the fleet is staying alive just because Galactica covers their asses while they run to the next spot everytime the Cylons appear? Work has to be done and organized, supplies have to be produced and distributed--all of this requires massive amounts of administration, with somebody at the top of it.

They are not in a "war". They are running, desperately seeking some harbor of safety, while being tracked down by a vastly superior force. The first step in this story was Roslin getting Adama to realize and admit that fact, or he would have taken Galactica and used it to stage mildly effective attacks on the Cylon until they cornered him and wiped him out, probably within a matter of weeks. His little ship and crew against millions of Cylons. While he was doing that, the handful of civilian ships would have been found and destroyed with no ability to offer resistance.

BTW, I was confused about the cat too.

So was I until I watched the episode again this AM....BTW, am I the only one that thinks that prisoner #6 is pregnant by someone else, NOT Tigh??? As suggested earlier, how can two cylons "make a baby"??? Plus, defeats the significance of Hera, etc.....:confused:

You're not the only one. Unless I missed it, I didn't notice any point at which it was definitively determined that a) Tigh was actually 'making babies' with the Six and/or b) that he was really the father. It was certainly heavily implied, but I viewed it as Tigh was accused due to the circumstantial evidence of turning the video recording off. Granted, the shocked expression on Tigh would tend to indicate he was intimate with her and astounded she could become pregnant by him.

What do you mean "do nothing"? Do you think that the fleet is staying alive just because Galactica covers their asses while they run to the next spot everytime the Cylons appear? Work has to be done and organized, supplies have to be produced and distributed--all of this requires massive amounts of administration, with somebody at the top of it.

What? You think they would still be alive without Galactica covering their asses? They would have been long obliterated without Galactica and the military. Of course supplies and food has to orginized and distributed. But that's not what they show the politicians concentrating on. Instead all we see is a bunch of self-promoting infighting. "Re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic" so to speak. They show themselves to be far more interested in their own self interest, than in what's best to survive their overwhelmingly bleak situation.


They are not in a "war". They are running, desperately seeking some harbor of safety, while being tracked down by a vastly superior force. The first step in this story was Roslin getting Adama to realize and admit that fact, or he would have taken Galactica and used it to stage mildly effective attacks on the Cylon until they cornered him and wiped him out, probably within a matter of weeks. His little ship and crew against millions of Cylons. While he was doing that, the handful of civilian ships would have been found and destroyed with no ability to offer resistance.

Yes, they are 'In a War'. What you speak of is merely the tactic they're using to survive that 'War'.

You're not the only one. Unless I missed it, I didn't notice any point at which it was definitively determined that a) Tigh was actually 'making babies' with the Six and/or b) that he was really the father. It was certainly heavily implied, but I viewed it as Tigh was accused due to the circumstantial evidence of turning the video recording off. Granted, the shocked expression on Tigh would tend to indicate he was intimate with her and astounded she could become pregnant by him.

Well, I personally don't need to see Tigh and Six going at it, thanks. :p I think that reveal was meant to shock because all we'd seen was one kiss. You know, one of those big twists the show is famous for, but this one not as well executed as they usually are. I had wondered if something more had happened between them but they hadn't addressed it until now.
_____
perilous, Hera is still significant because she is the first Cylon/Human child (as far as we know - maybe Helo's a Cylon after all).

Yes it is most certainly a war, and as long as they are in the Admiral's fleet he is the leader. The colonial government only serves to reduce the number of headaches that Adama has to contend with, but they only serve at the pleasure of the Admiral. If they allow the leader-du-jour to make strategic decisions for the military, then the military has shirked their responsibility to protect their fleet.

Remember New Caprica?

Same reason that the Fire Chief out ranks all others on the scene of a fire.

Tigh + Six is starting to look like the real interesting story. The look on Tigh's face when Adama says, "You've learned a lot about yourself" was priceless.

As mentioned, they never establish 100% that Tigh and Six have had ... relations. Also, even if they have, who is not to say she hasn't had some alone time with someone else? It's kinda hard to assume she hasn't tried to find a way to sneak some alone time with Baltar.

Or, the other possibility: maybe she's just a bit of a, um, dare I say it... a slut? Perhaps the big surprise is that Adama is the only person who hasn't slept with her. Of course, he had his shot at a Six in S1, so it's totally his fault.

Or, the other possibility: maybe she's just a bit of a, um, dare I say it... a slut? Perhaps the big surprise is that Adama is the only person who hasn't slept with her. Of course, he had his shot at a Six in S1, so it's totally his fault.

IRC, the Six that pursued Adama and the one Athena killed were one and the same: Natalie.

I was kind of surprised to discover Tigh had knocked up Six. Didn't even know they were boning, just fighting down there in her cell. Guess his psychosis with regard to his new identity and residual guilt over Ellen caused him to forget who was his bonee, as it were.


He probably believed he was boning Ellen. Many times when he is with Six she appears to him to be Ellen. He sees Ellen's face and hears her voice when Six talks to him. I believe that's why he kept going back to visit Six, not to see Six but to be with Ellen.

Any man that is picturing his wife while sleeping with Six is not fit for command - and probably isn't even human.

IRC, the Six that pursued Adama and the one Athena killed were one and the same: Natalie.

The one that pursued Adama in S1 was "Shelly Godfrey". She is definitely not the same as Natalie. In fact, some fans believe Shelly was the physical manifestation of Head Six.

The whole Lee becoming a politician thing to me has been a bit contrived from the get go. After all, we've been down this road before with Lee. And he ended back up by Adama's side. Plus, it seems like an awful lot of movement in a very short time period. I can't help but think that in real life, being in the middle of this war with Cylons, facing extinction, and being short of qualified personel on the military side of things, that Lee would have 'jumped ship' (no pun intended) and go off to play with a bunch of do-nothing, self absorbed politicians.

Funny how we so revere the concept of democracy, while at the same time so loathing the politicians who are an integral part of the process. After all, can't have much of a democracy without 'em. ;)

As far as Lee leaving the military for civilian life, that bothered me too. After all, as one of the fleet's best pilots, his skills as a leader and warrior are needed now more than ever. But this episode revealed, finally, his ambition - ultimately so nakedly even he had to acknowledge it. His buddy Romo saw it first, then forced Lee to recognize and admit it. But here's the thing: Lee actually thinks - believes it in his bones - that he can make a difference, he can avoid the missteps committed by Rosilyn and the uncertain agenda of Zarek, that he is best equipped to lead the fleet to sanctuary. And, as Romo finally concluded much to his distress, he probably is. The question is, what will happen when his father and Laura return from the rendezvous point? We already have a civil war among the Cylon, and now we have a constitutional crisis among the humans. Will they too split into factions, perhaps violently?

Funny how we so revere the concept of democracy, while at the same time so loathing the politicians who are an integral part of the process. After all, can't have much of a democracy without 'em. ;)

As far as Lee leaving the military for civilian life, that bothered me too. After all, as one of the fleet's best pilots, his skills as a leader and warrior are needed now more than ever. But this episode revealed, finally, his ambition - ultimately so nakedly even he had to acknowledge it. His buddy Romo saw it first, then forced Lee to recognize and admit it. But here's the thing: Lee actually thinks - believes it in his bones - that he can make a difference, he can avoid the missteps committed by Rosilyn, that he is best equipped to lead the fleet to sanctuary. And, as Romo finally concluded much to his distress, he probably is. The question is, what will happen when his father and Laura return from the rendezvous point?

I would love to see Lee screw up. He makes good points, but his idealism at a time like this really grates on my nerves. There will be a time for that, if they find Earth and if they find peace. But now, in the middle of a war when they are a "gang on the run" as he himself put it, is a time for tough decisions that you may not make when you're not facing the end of humanity. Having Lee make things worse is the only way I can imagine enjoying the "Lee as Prez" storyline. But we'll see how it goes. Maybe they'll surprise me!

And I completely agree - I could almost understand Lee leaving the military earlier this season. But now - when half the fighter wing is gone - I just don't understand how he can stay away in good conscience. Then again, maybe there are more pilots than birds now? That's sometimes been a problem before.

I just can't get past how Lee showed almost no care or remorse for the people on the basestar. Well, how no one but Adama did, but I'm picking on Lee here. :) He and Helo are friends and served together through this entire ordeal. Not to mention all the other pilots aboard that ship. Roslin was once like a mother figure to him. Yet, there wasn't one scene were he showed one ounce of concern. All he cared about was finding her replacement. That whole aspect of this episode really bugs the heck out of me.

Funny how we so revere the concept of democracy, while at the same time so loathing the politicians who are an integral part of the process. After all, can't have much of a democracy without 'em. ;).

True. I suppose that's actually part of the democratic process. Everyone hates congress, but loves their own congressman.



As far as Lee leaving the military for civilian life, that bothered me too. After all, as one of the fleet's best pilots, his skills as a leader and warrior are needed now more than ever. But this episode revealed, finally, his ambition - ultimately so nakedly even he had to acknowledge it. His buddy Romo saw it first, then forced Lee to recognize and admit it. But here's the thing: Lee actually thinks - believes it in his bones - that he can make a difference, he can avoid the missteps committed by Rosilyn and the uncertain agenda of Zarek, that he is best equipped to lead the fleet to sanctuary. And, as Romo finally concluded much to his distress, he probably is. The question is, what will happen when his father and Laura return from the rendezvous point? We already have a civil war among the Cylon, and now we have a constitutional crisis among the humans. Will they too split into factions, perhaps violently?

Possibly. I have enough faith in the writers that they have a point to follow through on with all of this. Especially this late in the game. My main thing is that I've always viewed this whole node to democracy in BSG as being more symbolic than anything of any real substance. Mainly there as a place holder for the process when and if they ever get safely through the Cylon war. And, as CPanther said, to deal with the day to day, mundane operations of dealing with the civilian populace.

I just can't get past how Lee showed almost no care or remorse for the people on the basestar. Well, how no one but Adama did, but I'm picking on Lee here. :) He and Helo are friends and served together through this entire ordeal. Not to mention all the other pilots aboard that ship. Roslin was once like a mother figure to him. Yet, there wasn't one scene were he showed one ounce of concern. All he cared about was finding her replacement. That whole aspect of this episode really bugs the heck out of me.

I think there might be two explanations for that. First, in a combat situation, you get used to losing people. Often, there's no time to morn; that can come later. Lee is ultimately a military man; that's probably his perspective. The other is that they may indeed have filmed scenes involved with acknowledging the loss, but they may not have made it into the final cut because of time constraints. Moore talks about that sort of thing all the time in his podcasts. They have to make hard choices due to time, and sometimes relevant stuff gets left out. They had to cover a lot of ground in this ep.

I think there might be two explanations for that. First, in a combat situation, you get used to losing people. Often, there's no time to morn; that can come later. Lee is ultimately a military man; that's probably his perspective. The other is that they may indeed have filmed scenes involved with acknowledging the loss, but they may not have made it into the final cut because of time constraints. Moore talks about that sort of thing all the time in his podcasts. They have to make hard choices due to time, and sometimes relevant stuff gets left out. They had to cover a lot of ground in this ep.

Yeah, I can see them cutting scenes for time certainly. But it's pretty important, I think. This show has always been more character-driven than plot-driven. That's what I love so much about it, that I care about the characters. Because they made me feel for them. You'd think they could've taken out just a 30 second snippet of Romo's incomprehensible prattling to add a short acknowledgement of the concern you'd hope these people are feeling.

I agree that having people close to them die must be getting old now. And perhaps it is desensitizing to lose so many. Maybe that's one of the points they're trying to make. It just felt false to me, based on what we've seen previously from this show and these characters.

I just can't wait for the podcast for this one. I'm anxious to learn if RDM is happy with the way the episode turned out.

I think there might be two explanations for that. First, in a combat situation, you get used to losing people. Often, there's no time to morn; that can come later. Lee is ultimately a military man; that's probably his perspective. The other is that they may indeed have filmed scenes involved with acknowledging the loss, but they may not have made it into the final cut because of time constraints. Moore talks about that sort of thing all the time in his podcasts. They have to make hard choices due to time, and sometimes relevant stuff gets left out. They had to cover a lot of ground in this ep.

And yet another view: at this point folks may be either so messianic or so resigned considering the circumstances that going through one more episode of "what the hell big thing went wrong this time" is just routine.

It's kinda like the moment in season 2 when Baltar is talking with head Six and he starts rattling off the various scenarios of what could be wrong this time.

In fact, some fans believe Shelly was the physical manifestation of Head Six.

Can you tell us more about Head Six? Sounds like a character that needs a lot more air time. :D

Funny how we so revere the concept of democracy, while at the same time so loathing the politicians who are an integral part of the process. After all, can't have much of a democracy without 'em. ;)

Can't have a democracy if you're extinct either.

New Caprica is the result of allowing the democracy to override military judgement during war time. That's why the military itself isn't a democracy.

Can you tell us more about Head Six? Sounds like a character that needs a lot more air time. :D

:rolleyes: I know, I was excited to see her back in the first few episodes, but she has disappeared again. I'd like to see her and Baltar interacting again, only please leave out the harem of pathetic women.

It seems she is no longer needed by Baltar, or she feels she no longer needs to appear to him now. I guess he's doing what she wants and she doesn't need to "guide" him at the moment.

:rolleyes: I know, I was excited to see her back in the first few episodes, but she has disappeared again. I'd like to see her and Baltar interacting again, only please leave out the harem of pathetic women.


Unless, of course, Baltar's group of fawning admirers has become the harem of naked women. But that'd be the HBO version. :p

I've considered it, but since they don't have the common courtesy to refrain from littering up a good discussion with juvenile whining, I don't feel the need for any kind of polite tolerance of idiotic viewpoints.

Most people consider 'discussion' to involve different points of view, both pro & con. What you seem to be looking for is a forum of fan-boys mindlessly fawning over the show and heaping praise on it, without tolerance of any different points of view or criticism. Which is odd, because somebody with the intellect and deep understanding you claim to have would be pretty bored in that environment.

And something else doesn't add up. Just an observation, but generally, people as smart as you claim to be don't usually resort to personal attacks as often as you do. Nor do they spend as much time talking about how much smarter they are than other people. They let their words demonstrate that without saying it outright. All that self-important puffery detracts from your arguments. Your points would be more convincing if you toned that down a bit. Otherwise, how would somebody distinguish your well-thought out opinions from the common internet blow-hard?

Most people consider 'discussion' to involve different points of view, both pro & con. What you seem to be looking for is a forum of fan-boys mindlessly fawning over the show and heaping praise on it, without tolerance of any different points of view or criticism. Which is odd, because somebody with the intellect and deep understanding you claim to have would be pretty bored in that environment.

And something else doesn't add up. Just an observation, but generally, people as smart as you claim to be don't usually resort to personal attacks as often as you do. Nor do they spend as much time talking about how much smarter they are than other people. They let their words demonstrate that without saying it outright. All that self-important puffery detracts from your arguments. Your points would be more convincing if you toned that down a bit. Otherwise, how would somebody distinguish your well-thought out opinions from the common internet blow-hard?
Well said.

Keep in mind that while such people can be unpleasant, it is equally unpleasant to demean others because of it.

Good. It was intended to be.

Thank you for understanding the point.

I heard one thing that I guess, needs a bit of clarification to me.

Someone mentioned in the dialogue that it's now been five (5) years since the attacks(??)

I know I heard the five years part right, but five years since what? Boy they certainly move fast these days.

I heard one thing that I guess, needs a bit of clarification to me.

Someone mentioned in the dialogue that it's now been five (5) years since the attacks(??)

I know I heard the five years part right, but five years since what? Boy they certainly move fast these days.

Five years since the Cylons nuked the colonies.

It has been almost five years real time; the miniseries first aired in fall 2003.

The full timeline hasn't been exactly clear. It seems as though there was a large passage of time between the exodus from New Caprica and the events on the algae planet and an even larger passage of time between that and their arrival at the Ionian Nebula. Now, we're probably around three months after the Ionian Nebula.

As far as Lee leaving the military for civilian life, that bothered me too. After all, as one of the fleet's best pilots, his skills as a leader and warrior are needed now more than ever. But this episode revealed, finally, his ambition - ultimately so nakedly even he had to acknowledge it. His buddy Romo saw it first, then forced Lee to recognize and admit it. But here's the thing: Lee actually thinks - believes it in his bones - that he can make a difference, he can avoid the missteps committed by Rosilyn and the uncertain agenda of Zarek, that he is best equipped to lead the fleet to sanctuary. And, as Romo finally concluded much to his distress, he probably is.

Well, Lee hadn't been flying much before the Ionian Nebula and, as far as I can tell, that even is one of the few real conflicts the fleet has had with the Cylons for quite some time. In terms of military strength and leadership, the fleet seems to be about as good as it's ever going to be with or without Lee. Where the fleet is sorely lacking is true civilian leadership. Roslin is very sick, has grown more secretive and messianic, and seems to have developed the attitude that she owes nothing to the people. Between Roslin's sense of entitlement and Zarek's flaky nature, Lee might be able to provide the type of level headed, fair, and somewhat humble leadership that the fleet has been lacking.

Personal attack deleted. Keep it respectful.

Six wasn't impregnated by Tigh...She was impregnated by me....:D

big angry, there is nothing wrong with people criticizing the show. It's a tribute to the show that we are able to come here and discuss it with so much depth. If this was CSI or something, no one would care about continuity or character development. But this is BSG. We hold it to a higher standard. I expect it to be nothing short of brilliant each and every week. Most of the time, it is.

But when it's not, it should be taken to task. When I see something that doesn't make sense to me, I should be able to bring it up. When we see the show fail to live up to the high standard it's set for itself, we should say so. Sure, it's just my opinion, and many here have been much more critical than I, but that's what discussion is all about - hearing different opinions.

As I've said before, I'm as big a fan of this show as there is. I believe it's the best thing on TV right now. But it's not perfect. The show itself demands of us that we ask the hard questions, that we take a critical look at issues that affect us in our lives every day. People that can follow this show tend to be a little more critical, a little more fussy about the details. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Possibly. I have enough faith in the writers that they have a point to follow through on with all of this. Especially this late in the game.

My faith in the writers is somewhat weaker since Jane Espenson came on board. I love her work on angel and buffy she really knows how to write teen and young adult TV but when it comes to adult TV she doesn't seem to be able to pull it off.

BSG is still one of the best shows out there and I will watch every episode and even buy the blu-rays when they are available.

Ok my thoughts on the matter...

1) Tigh and 6 got it on and made a baby. Why, well seeing as how that 6 model came over with Athena and her baby from a cylon base ship and we know that they can't have babies by themselves or artifically it stands to reason it is Tigh's. If anyone was sleeping with her I'm sure Adama would have been informed aka He confronts Tigh about the fact that he has been turning off the cameras and telling the crew to leave. If anyone else had been doing that he would have mentioned it also.

2) NOW along this line Tigh/6. Looks like we got ourselves the first cylon/cylon baby. Also it does appear that maybe LOVE is the driving factor in order for cylon's to concive children. Go back and re watch the shows. Look at the expression on 6's face when Tigh walks in to ask about the reserection ship. It has the look of joy of seeing someone she loves come back to visit.

3) Tigh is in charge of the fleet. The final five will lead them back to Earth. Looking promising in fullfilling prophecy.

big angry, there is nothing wrong with people criticizing the show. It's a tribute to the show that we are able to come here and discuss it with so much depth. If this was CSI or something, no one would care about continuity or character development. But this is BSG. We hold it to a higher standard. I expect it to be nothing short of brilliant each and every week. Most of the time, it is.

But when it's not, it should be taken to task. When I see something that doesn't make sense to me, I should be able to bring it up. When we see the show fail to live up to the high standard it's set for itself, we should say so. Sure, it's just my opinion, and many here have been much more critical than I, but that's what discussion is all about - hearing different opinions.

As I've said before, I'm as big a fan of this show as there is. I believe it's the best thing on TV right now. But it's not perfect. The show itself demands of us that we ask the hard questions, that we take a critical look at issues that affect us in our lives every day. People that can follow this show tend to be a little more critical, a little more fussy about the details. I wouldn't have it any other way.

I would agree.

Despite the significance of the events and the level of acting in the episode, I felt that somehow things were "off". I couldn't put my finger on it, but as I was watching it I was actually feeling impatient.

Granted, even when BSG is "off", it is still one of the best hours on TV and one of my "must see" shows. I recognized early on in the life of this series that it was going to be more about the journey than the destination, and for the most part, it has provided some of the most riveting performances and compelling stories in recent mind.

I think the problem for me with the last episode, now that I think about it more, is that this series has set such a high mark for itself that it is its own worst enemy. I expect so much from it, that when a particular episode does not gel for me I probably judge it more harshly than I should.

Anyway, looking forward to next week.

I think the problem for me with the last episode, now that I think about it more, is that this series has set such a high mark for itself that it is its own worst enemy. I expect so much from it, that when a particular episode does gel for me I probably judge it more harshly than I should.

Anyway, looking forward to next week.

I agree, it's tough to maintain that level week after week. There's bound to be stumbles. As for setting the high mark, I hope this series changes some things, gives producers the idea that SciFi can be made for adults, with great plots and great acting.

I agree, it's tough to maintain that level week after week. There's bound to be stumbles. As for setting the high mark, I hope this series changes some things, gives producers the idea that SciFi can be made for adults, with great plots and great acting.

I think it's much more simple than that. It almost seems to me that the writers just aren't being sensitive to the viewers. They set up an exciting story arc, and then the next several weeks, ignore it. Which does nothing more than frustrate the viewers. And in the meantime, they go off and spend half an episode on tangential nonsense. It's like they're stopping to play with ducks, when there are sharks in the water.

Another way to look at this is that the writers had a lot of setting up to do for future episodes to make any sense.

Another way to look at this is that the writers had a lot of setting up to do for future episodes to make any sense.

Bingo. Give Jim a prize! :)

Patience, people. "All will be revealed." ;)

Can people stop posting previews and other spoiler info in the open? Please put spoiler tags on it!!

Another way to look at this is that the writers had a lot of setting up to do for future episodes to make any sense.

Well, that's my hope. I'm thinking that this will probably be the sort of series that when completed, will be a great joy to view from beginning to end (hopefully in HD). :cool:

As for Tigh and Six makin' babies - we know that the models the Cylons don't know about are "fundamentally different", this could just be one of those differences.

As for Tigh and Six makin' babies - we know that the models the Cylons don't know about are "fundamentally different", this could just be one of those differences.

But then that gets us back to the question of why didn't the Chief and Boomer make a baby then? I mean, they were certainly doing it enough to have an 'accident'.

Maybe colonial contraceptives are much more effective than ours? ;)

...or Chief really didn't actually love Boomer, and/or likewise.

That does put the shadow of doubt, as far as I'm concerned, on Six being impregnated by Tigh. Though, if that whole love thing is actually the key, then Tigh having the delusion it was Ellen cinches that, perhaps.

If you can manufacture a #6, I wouldn't think a Viper would much trouble at all. ;)Well as long as they dont make up a "smokey" ala Lost. Once Science Fiction starts too far down the path of the supernatural it loses something. If "god" is making them see visions, making new vipers, making 6 look like Ellen then why not just deliver them all to earth with a wave of a wand. If its not god then I suppose we are to believe that the Cylons can do "magic"? I am exagerating but you should see the point. I am willing to suspend some belief and swallow that the raiders are organic creatures, hybrids can predict stuff and that somehow cylons can be skin jobs with no hardware inside and etc as is everyone that enjoys Sci-fi but I just hope they do not go too far with the supernatural stuff. But the show has been walking that edge for a long time with The presidents visions and Baltars arrest for blowing up the defense systems. Although both can be explained. One as drug induced hallucinations and the other coincidence. God didnt necessarily change Baltars fate, he was released because of further examination of the photo although 6 convinced him otherwise. The real mystery is Starbuck and her visions since childhood. Is it God or is she really a skin job? Her being the final one would be a good explaination. Of course the very first episode still has things that were never explained, how on earth did 6 protect Baltar from the nuke blast. Thats a hard one to explain.

But then that gets us back to the question of why didn't the Chief and Boomer make a baby then? I mean, they were certainly doing it enough to have an 'accident'.Give me a break. It obviously wasn't inevitable, particularly if they were taking precautions against it, which they almost certainly were. They were both in the middle of military careers and their affair was illegal--getting pregnant would be a very bad move. They didn't get pregnant because they didn't want to get pregnant :rolleyes:.

Give me a break. It obviously wasn't inevitable, particularly if they were taking precautions against it, which they almost certainly were. They were both in the middle of military careers and their affair was illegal--getting pregnant would be a very bad move. They didn't get pregnant because they didn't want to get pregnant :rolleyes:.
That doesnt have to be the case. Not every woman you have had sex with, with no birth control has gotten pregnant every time has she? Sometimes it takes awhile.

Give me a break. It obviously wasn't inevitable, particularly if they were taking precautions against it, which they almost certainly were. They were both in the middle of military careers and their affair was illegal--getting pregnant would be a very bad move. They didn't get pregnant because they didn't want to get pregnant :rolleyes:.

Really? Obvious huh? And you know this how? All of this is conjecture on everyone's part. And I think it's a valid point. So there is no reason to get sarcastic.

But then that gets us back to the question of why didn't the Chief and Boomer make a baby then? I mean, they were certainly doing it enough to have an 'accident'.

As mentioned, contraceptives. That Boomer body may have had other biological issues that prevented a pregnancy. Plenty of people use contraceptives and don't ever have an accident. The 6 that was on Pegasus never got pregnant and since they thought of her as just a machine it wouldn't be surprising if they never took precautions.

Tigh might not have used contraceptives, thinking that he was a Cylon and couldn't get her pregnant, where as the 6 might have subconsciously (or consciously!) wanted to get pregnant and wouldn't have made contraceptives a point.

Can people stop posting previews and other spoiler info in the open? Please put spoiler tags on it!!

What are you talking about? Where are the spoilers of which you speak?

I looked also and didn't see any. If you see something, send me a PM with a link or post number.

It's a few pages back, thankfully I've been busy this morning and have already forgotten it, though I was mad at the time LOL. However, before this last ep there were posts about 6 being pregnant.

Here it is, on page 195 (edited out, by me)
I thought it was very good, just so much new stuff thrown in, wow!

On the previews for next week, the unboxed three said "you know of the final five, what you don't know is your one of them" then they show a startled
Roslin, did they just reveal the final Cylon? Roslin the fith Cylon?

Also it appears that Roslin is on a base star with the Cavils, So does this mean they destroyed the old damaged base star?

And possibly another by JimP on page 196

Really? Obvious huh? And you know this how? All of this is conjecture on everyone's part. And I think it's a valid point. So there is no reason to get sarcastic.Everything is conjecture on everyone's part, but you ask for an explanation for something that easily explains itself. In our own world, career-minded young people who are openly involved with each other use contraception, which is, for the large part extremely effective. Boomer was a military pilot having an illegal affair with a subordinate, an offense punishable by court martial. If she was married, you'd expect her to be using contraception, because an unplanned pregnancy would disrupt her career, but in her actual situation, it would have been disasterous.

What you said was, "that gets us back to the question of why didn't the Chief and Boomer make a baby then? I mean, they were certainly doing it enough to have an 'accident'." How is this a "question"? Even you admit that it would have been accidental. Why did a very highly unlikely accident that they had every motive and presumably the means to try to prevent not happen? What kind of question is that?

Here it is, on page 195 (edited out, by me)


And possibly another by JimP on page 196

What you're describing are not spoilers. You're new here. It is the rule here on this forum that whatever is seen on the next week's previews at the end of the show is fair game and not spoiler territory. Sorry, but that's the way it is, and has been for years. Not that I don't sympathize; the marketing monkeys that put the previews together often give things away we might wish they hadn't. But that's just the way the cookie crumbles.

It's a few pages back, thankfully I've been busy this morning and have already forgotten it, though I was mad at the time LOL. However, before this last ep there were posts about 6 being pregnant.I believe that the posts about Caprica Six being pregnant were pure conjecture, again, based on stuff from the previews (which showed Doc Cottle revealing something surprising about his examination of Six to Adama, and a subsequent argument between Adama and Tigh).

Everything is conjecture on everyone's part, but you ask for an explanation for something that easily explains itself. In our own world, career-minded young people who are openly involved with each other use contraception, which is, for the large part extremely effective. Boomer was a military pilot having an illegal affair with a subordinate, an offense punishable by court martial. If she was married, you'd expect her to be using contraception, because an unplanned pregnancy would disrupt her career, but in her actual situation, it would have been disasterous.

What you said was, "that gets us back to the question of why didn't the Chief and Boomer make a baby then? I mean, they were certainly doing it enough to have an 'accident'." How is this a "question"? Even you admit that it would have been accidental. Why did a very highly unlikely accident that they had every motive and presumably the means to try to prevent not happen? What kind of question is that?

My point was that even with the best of contraceptives, accidents happen. It's a daily occurance. So possibly there is another explination. Eh?

And BTW, did you see a question mark after my 'statement' of, "I mean, they were certainly doing it enough to have an 'accident'."? Of course not. BECAUSE IT WASN'T A QUESTION. IT WAS A STATEMENT OF OBSERVATION. But I'll cut you some slack. Maybe you're just having a rough Monday.

I think, because we see it so often, there's a tendency for TV characters to become pregnant every time they have sex. Certainly, the very first time teenage characters do the nasty, you can always count on a bun rising in the oven. We've seen it so often, we sort of unconsciously expect it now. That inclination may be at work here. I'm inclined to believe that Boomer was just on the pill. ;)

Thank you. Of couples using modern oral contraception properly, statistically 3 out of 1000 will get pregnant in a given year.

Hey, you gotta' like those odds. :D

I'm inclined to believe that Boomer was just on the pill. ;)Thank you. Of couples using modern oral contraception properly, statistically 3 out of 1000 will get pregnant in a given year. (Of course, there are lots of not-so-cautious-intelligent-or-responsible people using oral contraceptives; due to their mistakes--skipping pills, etc--the typical rate of pregancy in all people using oral contraceptive is more like 20-80 pregnancies per 1000 couple/years).

Given their circumstances, one would expect that Boomer and the Chief were doing everything that they could to avoid getting pregnant; that they succeeded is hardly worth comment. Tigh and Caprica Six didn't plan to have sex at all, and certainly didn't use any contraception the first time. It's possible that Tigh brought condoms or some other barrier method with him after that, but it seems unlikely--his entire sexual affair with Six was insane and not at all thought out (other than that most anyone would want to have sex with Six :)).

Yeah but to Tigh, Caprica 6 looked like Ellen:eek:

What you're describing are not spoilers. You're new here. It is the rule here on this forum that whatever is seen on the next week's previews at the end of the show is fair game and not spoiler territory. Sorry, but that's the way it is, and has been for years. Not that I don't sympathize; the marketing monkeys that put the previews together often give things away we might wish they hadn't. But that's just the way the cookie crumbles.
Those are exactly spoilers, maybe it's been accepted to post them here but that doesn't make them not spoilers. It's really the same as if Ron Moore did an interview or podcast during the week where he gives away plot points to the upcoming episode, just tagged onto the end of the episode.

All I'm asking is others to be more courteous and maybe tag them so those who want to see them still can, and so those of us who don't watch the previews don't stumble on a post that then ruins a moment in the next ep.

With Hera, we are talking about the integration of cylon 'skinjob' and human.

We don't don't for sure that he's human, do we?

Those are exactly spoilers, maybe it's been accepted to post them here but that doesn't make them not spoilers. It's really the same as if Ron Moore did an interview or podcast during the week where he gives away plot points to the upcoming episode, just tagged onto the end of the episode.

All I'm asking is others to be more courteous and maybe tag them so those who want to see them still can, and so those of us who don't watch the previews don't stumble on a post that then ruins a moment in the next ep.

There's another thread for that, but no-one uses it.

The preview from an upcoming episode is fair game, especially since it's also the same as the current weeks commercial and most of the time edited to mislead. If you want to be absolutely cut off, use the other "spoiler free" thread.

If Tigh impregnated Six, that would be a real miracle, if Hera was one and the Chief that his own, this one is the real deal, cylon with cylon = full cylon baby?

And this cylon baby could be the fifth?

No one had guessed that a baby could be the final cylon, have they?

Add "cylon baby" to the poll please LOL

All I'm asking is others to be more courteous and maybe tag them so those who want to see them still can, and so those of us who don't watch the previews don't stumble on a post that then ruins a moment in the next ep.You can ask, but the rules of this discussion allow people to openly talk about those things, which have been on television as part of the episode broadcast.

As far as the reveal of one of the final five next week, I bet that she is talking to one of the four that we know about already, obviously not Tigh, but maybe Anders, I have to go back and watch the episode but does anyone remember who was on the basestar when it jumped away? Was chief, Anders, or Tory on the basestar?

The shot of Roslin has to be her reaction to learning that one of them is one of the final five. SCIFI may be stupid sometimes, but there is absolutely no way they give that up on a preview.

A couple of (probably bogus) speculations to incite comment:

- As someone mentioned, the 3 in the preview could have been referring to Anders. My new longshot for the final one of the final five ... Romo! He has the ability to create his own reality (the cat), was not in the last supper picture, and is an interesting character that the writers are bring back.

- As others have also mentioned, just because Tigh and 6 were involved doesn't mean he has to be the father. How long has she been pregnant? As a twist, I nominate Baltar for fatherhood ... this would make the opera scenes a little more interesting/understandable.

There's another thread for that, but no-one uses it.

The preview from an upcoming episode is fair game, especially since it's also the same as the current weeks commercial and most of the time edited to mislead. If you want to be absolutely cut off, use the other "spoiler free" thread.I believe that you're thinking of the "Battlestar Galactica on Universal HD - No SciFi Spoilers please (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=530633&highlight=battlestar)" thread, which was set up for people who were waiting to watch the show for the first time in HD on Universal HD, so they could discuss each episode as it aired there without people who'd seen them months ago on Sci Fi popping in and spoiling the plot.

This thread is "spoiler free", in that we're not supposed to openly discuss anything that we find that was leaked to the public by insiders. That doesn't include the episode preview ads.

Also being that she is pointing out who one of the final five are, can we assume that everyone else on the basestar isn't the final cylon, including Baltar, Roslin, etc.

Yeah but to Tigh, Caprica 6 looked like Ellen:eek:That's part of what made it insane :D.

Also being that she is pointing out who one of the final five are, can we assume that everyone else on the basestar isn't the final cylon, including Baltar, Roslin, etc.Why would we assume that? RDM stated that no one in the famous "Last Supper" photo was the "Final One"--the photo contains 3 of the "Penultimate Four", being Tigh, Anders and Tyrol, and it also featured Roslin, which would rule her out. Of course, he could be lying, but it seems unlikely. But they'd moved 40 Vipers and Raptors to the Basestar in preparation for their attack on the ressurection hub, along with myriad pilots and support crew. The "Final One" could be any one of them.

After all, D'Anna did not say "You know of the Final Five, but you don't know that you're the only one of them that hasn't been revealed to the audience?" :). Despite their misleading display of Roslin's reaction (which wasn't even necessarily a reaction to that statement, or even cut from the same scene), we have no idea who she was looking at when she said that. She was probably talking to Anders.

I know its not really safe to assume anything with this show.

In a roundabout way I am saying that she has to be revealing Anders and that it can't be Roslin or else she would reveal both of them.

I know its not really safe to assume anything with this show.

In a roundabout way I am saying that she has to be revealing Anders and that it can't be Roslin or else she would reveal both of them.Not that much was revealed in that little snippet. We don't know who was in the room with D'Anna when she said that, nor what she says after that. The next thing she does could be turn to someone else present and say, "And you are one of the Final Five as well."

It took me many weeks to catch up on this thread, a little at a time. Whew!

A few random thoughts:

I wonder if the Starbuck we have now is a clone with implanted memories. The cyclons took her ovaries, so they have her DNA, and memory implantation is not a big stretch since they have resurection technology.

I think the story line of "gave Starbuck a ship instead of throwing her in the brig" can be explained by Admiral Adama following his heart instead of following his head. He did it again this week when he relinquished command to wait for Roslin and company at the meeting point. I can buy it, even if he is a highly trained military man (under extreme duress). I have been that much in love. Maybe, someday, you will be too! Hope so.

I really enjoyed the scene where Admiral Adama gave Roslin the book that he never read the ending to. He did not want it to end. I think that was an homage to folks like me who don't want this series to come to an end, but know that it will.

I wonder if what is "fundamentally different" about the final five is that they can move their spirit/soul/consiousness around to various human "hosts." It could be an explanation for how Baltar sees the Head Six, Baltar sees Baltar, Six sees Baltar, Romo sees the cat alive when it is known dead, etc. In some ways, it is not much different than reincarnation (or resurection).

Six wasn't impregnated by Tigh...She was impregnated by me....:D

:eek: (LOL!!!)

Spoiler rules were established across the board many years ago. The show and the previews immediately following the show (not subsequent previews that may air later in the week) are fair game for open discussion as soon as they air in the US in the Eastern time zone.

Anything else must have spoiler tags unless a separate thread is provided for spoilers, then those posts should be directed there.

Changing the rules at this point isn't practical without an overwhelming consensus among members.

If you do not watch the previews because you don't want any info at all about the next week's show, then you should avoid the thread entirely. Something I do with Heroes which is notorious for ruining every possible upcoming twist or turn in the previews.

But then that gets us back to the question of why didn't the Chief and Boomer make a baby then? I mean, they were certainly doing it enough to have an 'accident'.

That's my confusion too.....:confused:

Therefore my original post surmising that perhaps Tigh isn't "the father"?????

Everything is conjecture on everyone's part, but you ask for an explanation for something that easily explains itself. In our own world, career-minded young people who are openly involved with each other use contraception, which is, for the large part extremely effective. Boomer was a military pilot having an illegal affair with a subordinate, an offense punishable by court martial. If she was married, you'd expect her to be using contraception, because an unplanned pregnancy would disrupt her career, but in her actual situation, it would have been disasterous.

What you said was, "that gets us back to the question of why didn't the Chief and Boomer make a baby then? I mean, they were certainly doing it enough to have an 'accident'." How is this a "question"? Even you admit that it would have been accidental. Why did a very highly unlikely accident that they had every motive and presumably the means to try to prevent not happen? What kind of question is that?

No disrespect, but why again is Tigh/Six not using contraceptives????? Do either/both of them "know" they can't "make a baby"? If your premise is right than they were clearly wrong in their "assumptions" right??

We have every right to ask rhetorical questions as you do to "conclude" otherwise without attacking, fair enough?

Avoiding an accidental pregnancy - even over a long period of time - is not that uncommon at all.

Avoiding an accidental pregnancy - even over a long period of time - is not that uncommon at all.

I'm still sticking with my "Tigh is not the father" thought....for now!!!! ;)

Could be - but I wouldn't look elsewhere just because it isn't feasible that the Chief and Boomer didn't have a kid.

Could be - but I wouldn't look elsewhere just because it isn't feasible that the Chief and Boomer didn't have a kid.

...and why wouldn't Tigh or Six take "precautions" again????? Why is it so easy for some of you to see why Boomer/Chief "obviously" took precautions (it was against protocol/law for them to be sleeping together BLAH, BLAH, BLAH...) but to flippantly dismiss that Tigh has/had nothing to lose by banging Six?? -- he's only the XO for crissakes, few know he's a Cylon of some sort, plus she's a Cylon (even Adama was pissed that Tigh may have "compromised" the fleet)?????....:confused:;)

Chief and Boomer were in a relationship and certainly would've taken precautions (if they didn't want children).

Tigh does not appear to be in his right mind around Six, thinking she's Ellen - and when the opportunity arose, why would he risk closing the deal by suggesting they wait until he can hit the PX for a box of condoms?

It's also difficult to slip the pill into the prisonor's cell every day for a month. ;)

No disrespect, but why again is Tigh/Six not using contraceptives????? Do either/both of them "know" they can't "make a baby"? If your premise is right than they were clearly wrong in their "assumptions" right??

We have every right to ask rhetorical questions as you do to "conclude" otherwise without attacking, fair enough?I'm assuming that the first time that they had sex was the first time that Tigh dismissed the security people from the surveilance room outside of her cell and turned off the recording equipment so that they couldn't be observed (this happened in "Escape Velocity"). He returns to the cell and Caprica Six starts telling him about the "clarity that comes with pain", after which they struggle briefly and she straddes him, punching his face repeatedly and gleefully. When she stops, he begs her to continue and she tells him that pain isn't what he needs and kisses him. I could be wrong, but it seemed likely that they proceeded to a sex act there. I don't think that it was planned by either of them, and I don't think that Tigh brought any contraception, and I can't imagine that Six was being given any, so there was at least the one time without any protection. From what Adama was told by the guards in this last episode, Tigh apparently held further totally private sessions with her, and I'm doubting that he bothered to bring anything to those either; maybe he did, but there was at least the one time. They'd had her in custody for months and I doubt that she'd had any opportunities for sex with anyone else.

In any case, I didn't "attack" anyone. I was just pointing out that I didn't think that Rutgar's question was a particularly reasonable one.

I'm still sticking with my "Tigh is not the father" thought....for now!!!! ;)

Heres why I think Tigh is the Father.. Caprica asked Tigh if he loves her, why did she ask? Because she already knows shes pregnant (if Baltar had impregnated her, then she would know long ago) Cylons think love is the trigger for getting Cylons pregnant, see "Kobals last Gleaming" they get Sharon pregnant and she knows right away, built in pregnancy test, and they discuss the Love factor in that ep.

In "Home" Sharon reveals the baby is a girl, so Cylons are in tune with whats going on with their bodies. Thats my two cents.

In any case, I didn't "attack" anyone. I was just pointing out that I didn't think that Rutgar's question was a particularly reasonable one.

No you didn't 'attack'. You were just being sarcastic and insulting when it wasn't necessary. And since posting, others have posted saying they were wondering the exact same thing. So obviously the premise was more 'reasonable' than you thought.

Heres another possible explanation. What if Baltar is the father?

If he's boinking Tory while thinking of head six which is Caprica in his mind, Could he get the real Caprica pregnant this way? :confused:

If so, running one while thinking of her could get her pregnant?

Naaaa... if that was the case we would never know who the dad was.

Everyone would require DNA tests.

No you didn't 'attack'. You were just being sarcastic and insulting when it wasn't necessary. And since posting, others have posted saying they were wondering the exact same thing. So obviously the premise was more 'reasonable' than you thought.I still disagree and I don't see how I was being at all "insulting", but if I offended you, I apologize--it wasn't my intention. I made no statements concerning you personally, just the idea. (Also, note that yet other people have posted in agreement with me).

To paraphrase, your contention was: If Tigh, one of the Final Five Cylons, was capable of impregnating Caprica Six, one of the "Significant Seven" Cylons, how come Chief Tyrol, another of the FFC, didn't impregnate Boomer, another of the SSC, even though they had plenty of sex?

My answer to this is that the Chief and Boomer were two relatively sane young people having an affair, and like most sexually active adults in our modern age who don't desire children, they probably used contraception. While it's true that even the most effective types of contraception can fail, when properly used they only fail in extremely rare instances. The Chief and Boomer seem like bright, highly accomplished people who could pull off successful use of contraception; it ain't rocket science (and even if it were, the Chief has some practical experience in that area :D). There doesn't seem to me to be much reason to wonder why they didn't become pregnant, since they had every reason to avoid becoming pregnant and presumably had access to the means to avoid it.

Tigh and Caprica Six, on the other hand, did not plan to become sexually involved, and began their sexual involvement in a situation where they had no ready contraception. The entire nature of their sexual affair is such that it seems unlikely that Tigh would bother to use contraceptives. Hell, he knows that he's a Cylon and he knows that the Cylons have a problem reproducing with each other. Why would he imagine that there was a danger of impregnating Caprica Six, even if his crazed desire for her left him capable of thinking that far?

I think the story line of "gave Starbuck a ship instead of throwing her in the brig" can be explained by Admiral Adama following his heart instead of following his head. He did it again this week when he relinquished command to wait for Roslin and company at the meeting point. I can buy it, even if he is a highly trained military man (under extreme duress). I have been that much in love. Maybe, someday, you will be too! Hope so.I hate to open this kettle of fish again, but :rolleyes: ...

Adama didn't "give Starbuck a ship instead of throwing her in the brig"--he freed Starbuck from the brig to give her command of a ship and a mission. He loves and trusts her like a favorite daughter--she was very nearly married to a son that he lost. They have a deep connection and shared history. He was devasted when he thought that she died and delighted when she returned, but has to have some reservations, given the extremely mysterious and suspicious circumstances of her return.

Now, imagine that your beloved daughter who just miraculously returned from a presumed death has a psychotic compulsion that she cannot explain to do something that you're preventing her from doing (never mind the mystery of how she survived an explosion which apparently killed her and got back in a brand new, spotless replica of the vehicle that appeared to have exploded, months later and light years away from where you left her, despite having been given no way to locate you :rolleyes:). You put her under guard because you're not sure that you can trust her. She violently breaks away from that guard and holds someone at gun point, demanding that they help her do this thing that she's mysteriously compelled to do, but can't explain why. She's disarmed and thrown into confined custody, as much for her own safety and everyone else's as to punish her. You watch her go crazier and crazier under confinement, literally screaming and clutching at her hair as you get further and further away from the place that she's compelled to go for unexplainable reasons.

So, what do you do? Beg her doctors to heavily dose her with anti-psychotics in the hope of giving her some peace? No! You remove your beloved but obviously deranged daughter from custody, and give her a large vehicle with a bunch of weapons and assign a group of people to her, honor and duty bound to obey her every command. I'm sorry, but to my mind this is not an act of love. There was nothing to make him believe that she wouldn't end up leading all the people that he assigned to her to their deaths. Moreover, it wasn't even necessary. He could easily have sent her on the mission with Helo in charge, with orders to cautiously go where she asked him to, but to keep a close eye on her and to rendezvous at an appointed time and place under any and all circumstances. It was an exercise of incredibly poor judgement which cost one of his officers his leg. It was also a horribly contrived bit of plotting.

And please--your assumptions about my experience of love are baseless and potentially offensive, and your condescending hope that I should one day know the depths of love that you've experience doesn't help. I don't know you and you don't know me and you should avoid posting personal observation about people derived from their posted perceptions of this program--nothing good can come of that. (True, you didn't quote me, but as I was the only one arguing that Adama giving Starbuck a command was unreasonable and highly contrived, I feel personally addressed).

...and why wouldn't Tigh or Six take "precautions" again????? Why is it so easy for some of you to see why Boomer/Chief "obviously" took precautions (it was against protocol/law for them to be sleeping together BLAH, BLAH, BLAH...) but to flippantly dismiss that Tigh has/had nothing to lose by banging Six?? -- he's only the XO for crissakes, few know he's a Cylon of some sort, plus she's a Cylon (even Adama was pissed that Tigh may have "compromised" the fleet)?????....:confused:;)

I've largely been operating under the assumption that Tigh has super-sperm. Super-sperm running on pure alcohol. Therefore, no pill or rubber could stop his manly urges once let loose on the world. Sorta like the sperm equivalent of depleted uranium.

how come Chief Tyrol, another of the FFC, didn't impregnate Boomer, another of the SSC, even though they had plenty of sex?

Easy: have you seen the hips on that woman? Those aren't baby-makin' hips. Geez.

Tigh didn't get 6 pregnant.

Adoma only thinks Tigh is the pappa due to having the guards leave and having the cameras turned off during his visits.

I guess its still possible, but I don't recall anything during the prison cell scenes that would imply that he did. His visions of his dead wife might be a possibility, but again I don't recall him boinking her either.