Speaking of Rome, are you guys aware that Polly Walker (Atia) is going to be in Caprica?

Reports are filtering out from the Revelations screening for Emmy voters and fans in L.A. last night. I am trying to avoid spoilers, but the general reaction from fans is that it's one of the best episodes ever. Can't. Wait.

Both of which were prematurely, un-mercifully cancelled by HBO. Along with Rome. 3 of the best TV series ever IMO. BTW, can you imagine if BSG had been on HBO? Removing that last little bit of commercial TV restraint? :cool:

You make a good point, Rutgar. Imagine if HBO were to put their considerable resources toward a sci-fi show. Certainly, they would go after BSG-level talent, but they could give them the kind of budget that Moore and Eick could only fantasize about. The result, if care is taken all around, could be a sci-fi geek's dream show. :D

One ambitious project I can think of that would require tremendous resources to pull off would be Arthur C. Clarke's "Rendezvous with Rama". It's perfectly written for a weekly TV series adaptation. Thrills, chills, mysteries, enigmas, and wonders; it's got everything you want in a weekly show that would keep 'em coming back for more. Just what HBO wants, hmmmm......

Rendezvous with Rama would need 3 seasons

You make a good point, Rutgar. Imagine if HBO were to put their considerable resources toward a sci-fi show. Certainly, they would go after BSG-level talent, but they could give them the kind of budget that Moore and Eick could only fantasize about. The result, if care is taken all around, could be a sci-fi geek's dream show. :D

One ambitious project I can think of that would require tremendous resources to pull off would be Arthur C. Clarke's "Rendezvous with Rama". It's perfectly written for a weekly TV series adaptation. Thrills, chills, mysteries, enigmas, and wonders; it's got everything you want in a weekly show that would keep 'em coming back for more. Just what HBO wants, hmmmm......

ooooo yes indeed. Perfect for a series. Lots of usuable content there.

Rendezvous with Rama would need 3 seasons

At least. There were four books. The first can stand alone, the last three are serial in nature. I'm thinking they could get an honest five out of it without screwing the pooch. I'd love to see raw material sea or the Octospider trying to draw out it's message of how to save it's species for the humans.

Thing is, Clarke just died (sad about that, I am) and I suspect it would be a daunting task to get the rights to make the bloody thing. Assuming he still owned them at his time of death, that is.

OT I know, mea culpa.

Edit: I just did a search to check whether or not I got Octospider right and it turns out there is a movie (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0134933/) in the works. I predict that if it is made it will be as bad as Battlefield Earth. It would have to be 4 hours long to get it all in. Kubrick's not alive to make it work, either. :)

Uh, the '3 seasons' remark is from Clarke. :)

Read the last sentence of the book.

Not to hype things too much or get people's hopes up. But I am hearing some pretty amazing things about the midseason finale on Friday.

Aintitcoolnews.com called it the "Biggest" Galactica ever:


Are you sure this is the biggest “Galactica” ever?
Yes.

Bigger than the episode that ended with Boomer putting two bullets in Bill Adama's chest?
Yes.

Bigger than the episode that leapt ahead a year?
Yes.

Bigger than the episode that revealed the Watchtower Four?
Yes.



Also, check out these cool posters you can buy at amazon.com:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c90/Etienne_72772/BSG2.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c90/Etienne_72772/BSG1.jpg

I just read the Aintitcoolnews.com article and I am getting super excited for the finale. I am guessing they find Earth.

There are a few things that I thought were minor spoilers in the full AintItCoolNews.com story (http://www.aintitcoolnews.com/node/37054) (though the blogger and the rest of the audience were sworn to secrecy by RDM in the theater and he swears up and down to be serious about keeping it :rolleyes:). Nothing major and they didn't bother me, but those highly sensitive to spoilage might want to stay away.

Both of which were prematurely, un-mercifully cancelled by HBO. Along with Rome. 3 of the best TV series ever IMO. BTW, can you imagine if BSG had been on HBO? Removing that last little bit of commercial TV restraint? :cool:

I have to be honest, I never watched Deadwood (stop throwing stuff at me! I plan on watching it over the summer), but I do agree that Carnivale was absolutely fantastic and is indeed on my list of favourite shows of all time. Never cared for Rome though for some reason. As great as The Wire was, I'm surprised HBO saw that through to its conclusion.

I do wish BSG was on HBO though. And not because it could be unrated, but because I think there's usually a lot left on the cutting room floor.

And after reading the reactions to the preview yesterday, maybe I should have gone. Laziness got the better of me. :p

Hmm, I read in the comments on the aintitcool story that SciFi was streaming the full episode starting tomorrow 9am-4pm est. I may have to get up a bit and watch it before work. (It would probably be better quality than the crappy SD picture I get from my cable co.)

BTW, the spoiler sensitive may want to stay away from the web, I've seen a few full spoilers of tomorrow's episode floating around in comments, though the ainticool news story was ok.

BTW, the spoiler sensitive may want to stay away from the web, I've seen a few full spoilers of tomorrow's episode floating around in comments, though the ainticool news story was ok.
As sensitive to spoilers as some of the people in this forum are (remember, many are pissed off that we discuss the previews that air during the show), I'd advise them to stay away from the aintitcool.com blog. The guy gives the answers to a couple of questions we've been tossing back and forth in this discussion and blatantly talks about a few details of the story that surprised me. All this in the name of "being RDM's bitch" by maintaining absolute secrecy about what he saw :rolleyes:.

I really enjoyed Carnivàle on HBO and was a bit upset with where it was forced to end by its cancellation. I thought that Rome was just about perfect and could have ended at any time and was just fine where it did. It would have been difficult to continue to follow Titus Pullo and Lucius Vorenus through much more of Roman history--after the war with Antony and Egypt, Augustus leads the country into the beginning of the Pax Romana; to maintain the feel, they'd have had to find a couple of more bit players to follow a couple hundred years down the road :). I was never drawn in by the premises of either The Wire or Deadwood.

My thinking is that the Cylons were busy building the Hub during the 40 year truce period and once they were finished, they could mount an attack.

Without the hub, they (the skinjobs) would be limited to staying at the Cylon Homeworld. Not very effective for mounting an attack.

Why would the skinjobs be limited to the cylon homeworld without the hub? Are you saying that they wouldn't risk death? If so, and they had the ability to build the hub, why wouldn't multiple hub building be priority #1, 2, 3, 4, 5 on their list ... instead of building seemingly tons of basestars?

I'm thinking they were over confident, they never figured those pesky humans would come back after a beat down, and kick them in the nuts.

The question is who really built the first skin jobs, they probably built the hub.

OK, now that's the best theory I've read ... maybe they didn't build the hub to begin with.

I guess I just assumed that the original Cylons 'evolved' into the skin jobs. Obviously it would have to be millions of times faster than natural evolution, but I still think its within the realm of possiblities considering things like Moore's Law. I think I'll be disappointed if the final episodes get too supernatural with the Cylons' origin ... it seems like that would hurt the overall theme of the show. I have faith the writers will have an awesome mind-blowing explanation rooted within the realm of possibility.

Why would the skinjobs be limited to the cylon homeworld without the hub? Are you saying that they wouldn't risk death? If so, and they had the ability to build the hub, why wouldn't multiple hub building be priority #1, 2, 3, 4, 5 on their list ... instead of building seemingly tons of basestars?



OK, now that's the best theory I've read ... maybe they didn't build the hub to begin with.

I guess I just assumed that the original Cylons 'evolved' into the skin jobs. Obviously it would have to be millions of times faster than natural evolution, but I still think its within the realm of possiblities considering things like Moore's Law. I think I'll be disappointed if the final episodes get too supernatural with the Cylons' origin ... it seems like that would hurt the overall theme of the show. I have faith the writers will have an awesome mind-blowing explanation rooted within the realm of possibility.

Earthlings created the original robotic Cylons. Earthlings created the original human form Cylons. And the latter created the resurrection hub. Did I read this years ago in an Isaac Asimov novel?

Anyone catch the reference to a cleansing flood by Balter when he was confessing his sins to Roslyn, it brought to mind Noah and the "ark" aka Galactica.

The religion thing is getting to be more pronounced as we near the end.
I'm wondering if they're going to do an all out religious explanation. Like the one true god creates the Cylons, to cleanse the blaspheming multi God worshiping humans?

The best thing about this show (for me at least) is the surprise factor, not being able to figure out which way they're taking you, and its fun to speculate.

I just caught up on the ep (I know, I know...) seriously busy etc.
But one little touch I likeed was Baltar talking/preaching with the Cylon toaster. James Callis is really a great actor, and the writing, had just the right touch / blend of humor and earnestness.

I know..I know..

Why would the skinjobs be limited to the cylon homeworld without the hub? Are you saying that they wouldn't risk death? If so, and they had the ability to build the hub, why wouldn't multiple hub building be priority #1, 2, 3, 4, 5 on their list ... instead of building seemingly tons of basestars?


Right. Without the hub, the cylons wouldn't attack since it would mean death, rather than resurrection.

As to why they wouldn't build multiple hubs, perhaps it took them a long time to do so and they wanted to get on with the "plan" right away. The "plan" is the plan and there was no Plan B.

Also, perhaps Basestars are quite easy to build ... compared to hubs.

ft

Earthlings created the original robotic Cylons. Earthlings created the original human form Cylons. And the latter created the resurrection hub. Did I read this years ago in an Isaac Asimov novel?

Probably. All modern Sci-Fi roads lead back Asimov, do they not? ;)

No plan "B", but millions of copies of each model? Not very consistant.

No plan "B", but millions of copies of each model? Not very consistant.

Agreed. It seems to me that the ressurection hub is essentially a facility to ensure redundancy within their system. How can a system that operates with such a high level of redundancy not have backup hubs? Hopefully the writers will shine more light on this.

Found a reference to this article over in the HOTP thread; thought I'd post the relevant section here:

Rick Kushman: Sorry if you've missed the ship on 'Battlestar Galactica'By Rick Kushman - rkushman@sacbee.com
Published 12:00 am PDT Friday, June 13, 2008


It's not easy being a "Battlestar Galactica" fan. The show disappears from the air for long, often uncertain stretches. The plotting is dense and complicated, and sometimes you have to watch politics.

But worst of all, when you try to convince people it's one of the best dramas on TV, they think you're talking about the cheesy 1970s series and scurry away from you.

I'm here to tell you, I feel your pain. People scurry away from me all the time. And as "Battlestar" finishes up the first half of its final season June 13 (at 10 p.m. on Sci Fi), not even critics know when the last 10 episodes will air.

On the other hand, there are few shows on TV as rewarding for fans. "Battlestar Galactica" is a thrilling, affecting, constantly morphing story told with deft acting, witty and surprising writing, and, most of all, with humanity.

Without being preachy, dogmatic or, you know, dull, this is a series that messes around in all kinds of serious subjects, and it questions things like the nature of religion, race, family, death, government, love and, of course, God and the universe.

That's always the beauty of good science fiction – and the operable phrase there is "good," not "science fiction" – because it can use wholly original settings, and even original creatures, to poke intelligently at genuine issues.

I could go on about the greatness of this show, but there's not much point to it. By now, I'm preaching only to the dedicated choir, and that's OK, because if you haven't been following the story, there's no way you're boarding this train now.

(You could, however, start at the start and go the rental route.)

In any case, tonight's hour ends the first stretch of 10 episodes that made up Season 4: Part 1. The second 10 episodes are likely to show up in 2009.

As for the details, you'll get no spoilers from me because I don't play that evil game. Plus, I haven't seen the episode.

For fans of "Battlestar's" Katee Sackhoff (who plays Kara Thrace, a.k.a. Starbuck), there's enticing news that she'll have a four-episode arc on the next season of FX's "Nip/Tuck."

She'll play a doc who likes tattoos and motorcycles, and knowing that show, the mind reels with the possibilities. The downside is "Nip/Tuck" won't reappear until 2009.

There have also been reports that Tricia Helfer (Cylon Number Six) will guest star in an episode of USA's "Burn Notice," another terrific series that returns for Season 2 on July 10.

http://www.sacbee.com/127/story/1006980.html

Wouldn't waste any time watching Nip/Tuck but 'Burn Notice" is an excellent show currently re-running its 1st season before the new season starts in July. I'd love to see Six.

Hey! Maybe the writers could make her a figment of Michael's imagination. :)

Couldn't wait until tonight, watching mid-season final right now!

Just finished watching, next stream begins on the hour 1100 EDT.

Couldn't wait until tonight, watching mid-season final right now!

Just finished watching, next stream begins on the hour 1100 EDT.

I cheated too, because I will be out of town until late on Sunday and can't wait until after work on Monday to watch the episode, speechless, I'm just speechless. I didn't expect it to go in the direction it did, HOLY FRAKKIN $HIT

I'm watching it again. :D

Not going to say a word about anything until everyone has had a chance to view it.

Glad you guys like the episode! I'm waiting until tonight. You are such teases!!!

On a separate note, I thought you might be interested in this in light of our earlier discussion of SciFi's promos. Apparently, Ron Moore will have veto power over all future BSG promos going forward. I think this is really great news! This comes from producer/writer Bradley Thompson's girlfriend over on the Skiffy board.

So, from now on we can blame RDM if we think the promos are too spoilery. :D

No plan "B", but millions of copies of each model? Not very consistant.


Until recently though all of the millions of copies agreed on what to do, so maybe a plan "B" was not required.

Either way though I hope they do give us an explanation.

Glad you guys like the episode! I'm waiting until tonight. You are such teases!!!

On a separate note, I thought you might be interested in this in light of our earlier discussion of SciFi's promos. Apparently, Ron Moore will have veto power over all future BSG promos going forward. I think this is really great news! This comes from producer/writer Bradley Thompson's girlfriend over on the Skiffy board.

So, from now on we can blame RDM if we think the promos are too spoilery. :D

That is great news on the promos...

Sorry for the tease, but i'm still sayin "holy frakkin $hit" to myself...

Well, Deadwood was cancelled suddenly. It's pretty obvious that SciFi doesn't want to let go of BSG. I think Caprica is a pretty good indication of that.
This is all going to be a programming issue. BSG never did particularly well in the ratings, and I seriously doubt that Caprica will do much more than capitalize upon the existing BSG audience, and never reach mainstream appeal. I'd like to see it work, but I'm from Missouri with respect to the way it will be handled. Don't forget the way Sci Fi tried to arm-twist the BSG team to switch over to stand-alone eps in order to draw viewers.

That's because for some totally unexplainable reason, the creators of Deadwood and HBO decided their efforts would be better spent on 'John from Cincinnati'. Talk about people smoking crack!
I never understood why anyone would think a drama centered around Dr. Johnny Fever being transplanted to Cali would suceed anyway, no matter how quirky they made it. :rolleyes:

And listen guys, I know some of you who have cheated are real excited about this episode, but repeating how great it was ad nauseum, before the rest of us have seen it, is taking away some of the fun and intrigue. Oh, and pissing me off as well. But I'm taking down names, and will be P.M.ing those same members with a synopsis for each episode of the 2009 season before it airs. :p

__________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind.

In regards to the reason for only a single ressurrection hub. I would suspect that it has something to do with the majorly advanced level of HDCP-type encryption that would be required to ensure that nothing could 'pirate' the 'cylon essenses' that were travelling through 'subspace' (or whatever) to be downloaded into new bodies.

The authentication required would have to be very robust.

:D

In regards to the reason for only a single ressurrection hub. I would suspect that it has something to do with the majorly advanced level of HDCP-type encryption that would be required to ensure that nothing could 'pirate' the 'cylon essenses' that were travelling through 'subspace' (or whatever) to be downloaded into new bodies.

The authentication required would have to be very robust.

:D

Yet another strike against DRM. When will we learn.

In regards to the reason for only a single ressurrection hub. I would suspect that it has something to do with the majorly advanced level of HDCP-type encryption that would be required to ensure that nothing could 'pirate' the 'cylon essenses' that were travelling through 'subspace' (or whatever) to be downloaded into new bodies.

The authentication required would have to be very robust.

:D

The guys at slysoft would just have to create AnyCylon to get around it :)

I watched the stream as well, at noon locally. I'm not sure what I think. I'm looking forward to the discussion herein later.

Palladin, just stay the hell away from this thread until after the episode airs wherever you are, if you don't want hear people's reactions or watch one of the streams yourself. Being on the west coast it's what I have to do for three hours every week, after all the east-coasters and mid-westerners have seen it :rolleyes:.

And there's no "cheating" involved. Unlike file-sharing downloads of the Sky One British broadcast, the webcast is a broadcast by the network to all of America (featuring national ads that you can't even skip). If you can't watch it it's no different from me not being able to watch the east coast broadcast at 7 PM locally.

This is all going to be a programming issue. BSG never did particularly well in the ratings, and I seriously doubt that Caprica will do much more than capitalize upon the existing BSG audience, and never reach mainstream appeal. I'd like to see it work, but I'm from Missouri with respect to the way it will be handled. Don't forget the way Sci Fi tried to arm-twist the BSG team to switch over to stand-alone eps in order to draw viewers.


The word is that SciFi has already approved a 13 episode season for Caprica. It's not officially official, but everyone expects it. So, apparently Skiffy is happy with what they have seen so far and with the casting and plot.

I don't really understand your "Missouri" comment, Palladin. :confused:

Anyway, I don't think they realistically expect Caprica to have any more mainstream appeal than BSG. BSG is SciFi's only critically acclaimed show. It's the only show they have that brings them that kind of respect. Otherwise, they're just the Stargate and bad movie network. They desperately want something to keep what little credibility they have.

And as much as I criticize that network, I applaud them for that. BSG's ratings are not stellar by a long shot. They are among the highest on SciFi, for sure, but nothing great. Yet they have stayed relatively hands off and allowed RDM and the writers to do a lot of things they never thought they'd get away with. Sure, there was a stretch of episodes in Season 3 that they meddled in, but overall, they have remained remarkably supportive to the creative process when it comes to this show.

That's not to say that Caprica is guaranteed to be awesome. But I think there's reason to believe SciFi will at least allow it to be whatever it's going to be without too much interference.

And it appears to be confirmed (according to Galactica Sitrep and others) that the second half of Season 4 will be 12 hours, rather than 10. That's because the finale is written as a three hour episode. They will most likely break it up into two or three episodes.

I don't really understand your "Missouri" comment, Palladin. :confused:Missouri is the "Show Me State" ("Show Me" is the state slogan). The old saying is "I'm from Missouri--show me." It means "I'm skeptical and I need proof." (I am from Missouri, BTW, Saint Louis born and raised :)).

I watched the stream as well, at noon locally. I'm not sure what I think. I'm looking forward to the discussion herein later.

Palladin, just stay the hell away from this thread until after the episode airs wherever you are, if you don't want hear people's reactions or watch one of the streams yourself. Being on the west coast it's what I have to do for three hours every week, after all the east-coasters and mid-westerners have seen it :rolleyes:.

And there's no "cheating" involved. Unlike file-sharing downloads of the Sky One British broadcast, the webcast is a broadcast by the network to all of America (featuring national ads that you can't even skip). If you can't watch it it's no different from me not being able to watch the east coast broadcast at 7 PM locally.

+1

Missouri is the "Show Me State" ("Show Me" is the state slogan). The old saying is "I'm from Missouri--show me." It means "I'm skeptical and I need proof." (I am from Missouri, BTW, Saint Louis born and raised :)).

Ah, thank you! Now, I feel really stupid. :D

Ah, thank you! Now, I feel really stupid. :DI almost responded to that, but thought you were being sarcastic.

I don't really understand your "Missouri" comment, Palladin. :confused:
S'okay, an old expression which I tend to use despite its fall from favor. Oh, and to avoid any confusion, I am most definitely not from Missouri ;)

Anyway, I don't think they realistically expect Caprica to have any more mainstream appeal than BSG. BSG is SciFi's only critically acclaimed show. It's the only show they have that brings them that kind of respect. Otherwise, they're just the Stargate and bad movie network. They desperately want something to keep what little credibility they have.

Well, yes, that's kind of where I was going with this. BSG is Sci-fi's 'show' pony, in fact its only show pony, and while its nice and good to have a show pony, pretty much everything else on this dude ranch is a 'nag'. Sci-fi is essentially a niche channel which has hung in there this long because it was able to survive off of the limited expense re-runs of pre-existent sci-fi series. Hell, even Stargate (My wife and I loved the first 5 seasons, but after that it became excessively redundant) was a lift from one of Showtime's ventures. Ghost hu8nters and 'bad movies' do not cultivate an atmosphere a quality programming, leaving BSG as the star geek which has limited control over its own fortunes, not because of its lack of value, but due to the bunkmates who can enhance, or seriously detract from it.

That's not to say that Caprica is guaranteed to be awesome. But I think there's reason to believe SciFi will at least allow it to be whatever it's going to be without too much interference.
Well, certainly in the immediate sense, but despite the prestige, if the ratings slip enough, it won't be long before we see it replaced by the further adventures of Timmy and Lassie at the Pet Sematary. :rolleyes:

_____________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Palladin, just stay the hell away from this thread until after the episode airs wherever you are, if you don't want hear people's reactions or watch one of the streams yourself. Being on the west coast it's what I have to do for three hours every week, after all the east-coasters and mid-westerners have seen it :rolleyes:.
Hey, its not like anyone forced you to live on the wrong coast, is it? Don't blame me if you now regret that decision. :rolleyes: Should've stayed back in Missouri. Then you'd only have an hour's worth of time zone envy. :p

And there's no "cheating" involved. Unlike file-sharing downloads of the Sky One British broadcast, the webcast is a broadcast by the network to all of America (featuring national ads that you can't even skip).
Oh, I definitely disgree with this one. But, as you seem to view this as your beast of burden, I have determined that in fairness to all, I wiil only forward PM's with that night's episode reveals to your mailbox. Bon appetit. :D

______________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Hey, its not like anyone forced you to live on the wrong coast, is it? Don't blame me if you now regret that decision. :rolleyes: Should've stayed back in Missouri. Then you'd only have an hour's worth of time zone envy. :pI hardly regret the decision--here we say "best coast" and "least coast". There are compensations for living at or near the Southern California shore and as I stroll around in short pants and sleeves on Christmas day, I try to spare a thought for my frozen colleagues back east :D.

If I was in Missouri, BTW, I wouldn't have any "timezone envy". Primetime airs an hour earlier there, and 10 PM shows like BSG air at 9 PM Central, from the eastern network feeds. I've lived in 13 cities in eleven states, including 3 cities in Central time (St. Louis, Austin, Chicago)--timezone confusion is my life :).
Oh, I definitely disgree with this one. But, as you seem to view this as your beast of burden, I have determined that in fairness to all, I wiil only forward PM's with that night's episode reveals to your mailbox. Bon appetit. :D(As though I'd open any form of e-mail from you. I'd be afraid of computer virus infection :rolleyes:). You can disagree all you like, but the fact is that we were all of us invited to watch the early-bird streams of BSG's mid-season finale. While they were running (repeatedly for four hours, I think), if you went to www.scifi.com/battlestargalactica, it would show you the current stream by default. It's not like any of us forced you not to watch it, but those of us who did watch it did so guilt free :). I'm sure that we'll all respect the rules of this thread and won't discuss the details until after it's been broadcast on cable and satellite.

I hardly regret the decision--here we say "best coast" and "least coast". There are compensations for living at or near the Southern California shore and as I stroll around in short pants and sleeves on Christmas day, I try to spare a thought for my frozen colleagues back east :D.

Okay, I guess this is one way to keep this thread open and cheat-free (accidentally, of course) until its showtime for those in Eastern & Central.

I've lived in 13 cities in eleven states, including 3 cities in Central time (St. Louis, Austin, Chicago)--timezone confusion is my life :).
Geez, that's an awful lot of relocation. Which was it, CSI or the Witness protection program? You do know the Feds monitor this site, don't you? :D

(As though I'd open any form of e-mail from you. I'd be afraid of computer virus infection :rolleyes:)..
That's why I labeled it 'Free Porn". Knew you'd never look at it until after it took over your registry. :p

You can disagree all you like, but the fact is that we were all of us invited to watch the early-bird streams of BSG's mid-season finale. While they were running, if you went to www.scifi.com/battlestargalactica, it would show you the current stream by default. If you chose not to watch it, that's on you, but those of us who did watch it did so guilt free :). We all respect the rules and won't discuss it until after it airs
Okay, now I'll get serious for a minute. There are 2 things I enjoy about shows like BSG. Watching it, and then coming here and comparing notes/analyzing with others who share this interest.

I've maintained for a number of years now that the great thing about AVS is that its like going to the neighborhood (virtual) bar and shooting the breeze about something you're interested in, with other people who are into the same kind of thing. You go to a real neighborhood bar, and some guys will be talking football, others talking soccer, others bitching about their jobs or the date they had last night. But here, its pure, unadulterated BSG, and everyone is here for that same reason.

So yes, if I have a preference, its that the conversations are more often with those who have just seen the same ep in real time, and are offering what we all know to be very first impressions, before the detailed analyzing begins. The sense of commonality permeates the air, and we're all still juiced fresh off that BSG rush.

_________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

I almost responded to that, but thought you were being sarcastic.

No, just being dumb. :)


Well, certainly in the immediate sense, but despite the prestige, if the ratings slip enough, it won't be long before we see it replaced by the further adventures of Timmy and Lassie at the Pet Sematary. :rolleyes:


LOL, no doubt. You know, I think everyone enjoys a good 'Mansquito vs. Giant Spiders from Mars' movie once in a while. But to create a whole network around that? :p

Geez, that's an awful lot of relocation. Which was it, CSI or the Witness protection program? You do know the Feds monitor this site, don't you? :DNah--it started out as just youthful restlessness and curiousity. I was a computer software engineer and finding new jobs every few years at a substantial pay hike was easy through the 80s and 90s, particularly if you were willing to move to the new industry hot spot. Eventually, I learned that the US is basically just one place--all that really changes is the scenery--but I got stuck in a habit of high-paying gypsy consulting for a while (I knew one guy who'd moved cross-country 26 times when I ran across him over 10 years ago, though he maintained a home that he returned to from time to time).

I've been in San Diego for seven years--longer than anywhere but my home town--and at this point I can't imagine anything that would dislodge me. In the immortal words of Buckaroo Banzai, "Remember--no matter where you go, there you are." :D

Plug for SciFi. Most of the shows are bad, but Eureka, starting up again soon, is pretty cool.

I've been in San Diego for seven years--longer than anywhere but my home town--and at this point I can't imagine anything that would dislodge me. In the immortal words of Buckaroo Banzai, "Remember--no matter where you go, there you are." :D
Was that intentional or coincidence? Up until a couple of years ago, that was my sig line here at the forum. Someone else here adopted that line afterwards, so as I did with him, permit me to correct you. That sentiment was actually coined by Confucious 2,500 years ago, and not some Hollywood screenwriting hack for Buckaroo Bonzai.

Now, see how informative this thread can be? ;)

________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

All I can say is WOW :D

OMGZ ! Just watched the final episode for this season.. WOW.. what a cliff hanger. Love it, pissed gotta wait 6months + for the final episodes.

Let me know when we can start talking about the show as not to spoil Westcoasters.

Was that intentional or coincidence? Up until a couple of years ago, that was my sig line here at the forum. Someone else here adopted that line afterwards, so as I did with him, permit me to correct you. That sentiment was actually coined by Confucious 2,500 years ago, and not some Hollywood screenwriting hack for Buckaroo Bonzai.

Now, see how informative this thread can be? ;)It was coincidence. I've never noticed anyone using that as a sig in this or any other online forum. An old friend with whom I watched that movie for the first time when it was new grew very fond of quoting that and I myself have certainly born out the truth of it with my wanderings.

I never knew that it was from Confucius, though it did seem a bit deep for a sci-fi parody hero. I wonder exactly how "the Greatest Master" put it in his writings?

Frack me! :eek:

Hey--it's been broadcast on cable and DBS somewhere in the United States, so it's fair game for discussion. As I said, I generally just avoid this thread until after I've seen my recording of the broadcast, but no need, since I watched the stream :). It'll be 2:00 AM in Eastern time when the broadcast finishes here.

OMGZ ! Just watched the final episode for this season.. WOW.. what a cliff hanger. Love it, pissed gotta wait 6months + for the final episodes.

Let me know when we can start talking about the show as not to spoil Westcoasters.

Have they announced when the second half of the final season will air?

Have they announced when the second half of the final season will air?

Not that I'm aware of...

Is it too early to start discussing?

Damn, that really was a great episode. Gave us a ton of plot resolution but still left a lot of unanswered questions... Well done BSG, well done.

I avoided the thread, but I wish I had avoided it before all the posts from those that had seen it and read the ain't it cool article. The speculation about finding Earth ruined the surprise ending.

Wow great show. They dint reveal the fifth Cylon, that sucked. So they get to Earth and its trashed, that would have been a good twisted 70's ending, Planet of the Apes like "You maniacs! you blew up! God dam you! God dam you all to hell!" While not the same impact as the apes ending for me at least. It was a very good show.

Whens 2009?:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Oh happy day, Tigh is going to permanently shack up with Caprica, now that she knows he's a top echelon Cylon :)

My biggest question now is why do we need the 5th Cylon?

Wow great show. They dint reveal the fifth Cylon, that sucked.Note that D'Anna said that only four of them were with them in the fleet. I wonder if she knows where the fifth is?
Oh happy day, Tigh is going to permanently shack up with Caprica, now that she knows he's a top echelon Cylon :)Yeah, there's nothing standing in the way of their love now :).

I avoided the thread, but I wish I had avoided it before all the posts from those that had seen it and read the ain't it cool article. The speculation about finding Earth ruined the surprise ending.I must have missed something in the stuff that was given away here and in that blog. I was certainly surprised when they went directly to "Earth" in a single jump at the end.

Of course, we have no idea whether this "Earth" bears any relation to our own. They very carefully cloaked what part of the surface that we got to see with clouds to prevent identification of continents and showed no recognizable ruins on the surface. No big chunk of the Empire State, Statue of Liberty, Space Needle, Golden Gate Bridge, Gateway Arch, London Eye, Sydney Opera House or any of dozens of structures that we would have recognized.

i'm from the west coast....


THEY FOUND EARTH!!!

please discuss.

I thought it looked like the Brooklyn Bridge at the end, but they didn't give a real good shot of it.

Yea, there is no clue as to what time frame we're looking at for when they got to earth. Is it long before humanity as we know it began? Is it post apocalyptic earth is few years from now? Way in the future?

I thought it looked like the Brooklyn Bridge at the end, but they didn't give a real good shot of it.
Bingo!!!
Half expected to see the Lady in the harbor... but that's been done already.

Yea, there is no clue as to what time frame we're looking at for when they got to earth. Is it long before humanity as we know it began? Is it post apocalyptic earth is few years from now? Way in the future?My question would be is it even our Earth?

My biggest question now is why do we need the 5th Cylon?

exactly, i feel a little deflated that they did find earth because in my mind that was always more important than finding the fifth.

What a weird feeling I had watching the celebration scene. I wanted to be happy for them, but I just knew it wasn't going to end all smiley and joyous. This is BSG, one of the darkest shows in the history of television. So, I was not surprised by the post-apocalyptic Earth. It still hurt, though.

I've got to say that final shot of all the characters reactions as they stood on Earth was brilliantly done.

This show owns me.

I must have missed something in the stuff that was given away here and in that blog. I was certainly surprised when they went directly to "Earth" in a single jump at the end.

Of course, we have no idea whether this "Earth" bears any relation to our own. They very carefully cloaked what part of the surface that we got to see with clouds to prevent identification of continents and showed no recognizable ruins on the surface. No big chunk of the Empire State, Statue of Liberty, Space Needle, Golden Gate Bridge, Gateway Arch, London Eye, Sydney Opera House or any of dozens of structures that we would have recognized.

I think the same as you this could be just one past planet that they blew up in an ongoing Human/Cylon war like Caprica, this theory falls in line with the "its happen before it will happen again" thing.

I get the feeling the viper will have other coordinates of other bombed out planets, perhaps the higher powers (past Cylon comrades) way of teaching them to live in peace, or it will happen again and again.

I kind of hoped that we might hear more about the the legend of the Final Five. Why did one of the Sixes or Eights excitedly say, "Imagine the things they must of seen!" when discussing them in "Six of One"? What do they know about them?

Great Episode. Cliffhanger was well done.

Just remember though, Kara will lead the human race to there destruction.

The best is yet to come. See you in Feb. 2009

I was not surprised by the post-apocalyptic Earth. It still hurt, though.
Not to worry, Brooklyn always looks like that after a rough weekend.
By Monday morning the Department of Sanitation will have the place looking like brand new again :D:D

Great Episode. Cliffhanger was well done.

Just remember though, Kara will lead the human race to there destruction.

The best is yet to come. See you in Feb. 2009No--Kara will lead "them all" to "their end", whatever that means :).

Note that D'Anna said that only four of them were with them in the fleet. I wonder if she knows where the fifth is?


"Not in the Fleet" -- as soon as she said that my first though was that "the fifth must already be on the Basestar." Helo, Baltar, Roslin -- who else was on the ship? Then the Adama Mutually Assured Destruction Plan went into effect and the Centurions rounded up all the Humans except for Baltar and Roslin.

Later "Maybe she doesn't know" occurred to me though that doesn't really explain her Death/Resurrection visions nor the Hybrid's pronouncement nearly as well since both implied whe knew the Final 5. I still wonder who she apologized to during her visit when she saw the Faces for the 1st time -- Tigh's the most likely, but who else is possible?

A couple of things I thought I noticed. It looked to me that none of the earth shots showed any green, so maybe all vegetation is destroyed. Second, it looked to me like they were in the wreck of the temple from the scrolls that Lee was looking at in the beginning of the episode. I am guessing that this is either way in our future or way in our past.

Not to worry, Brooklyn always looks like that after a rough weekend.
By Monday morning the Department of Sanitation will have the place looking like brand new again :D:D
This got a big laugh from me.
"Not in the Fleet" -- as soon as she said that my first though was that "the fifth must already be on the Basestar." Helo, Baltar, Roslin -- who else was on the ship? Then the Adama Mutually Assured Destruction Plan went into effect and the Centurions rounded up all the Humans except for Baltar and Roslin.
Good catch. I missed that connection, but all the ones you mentioned were in the last supper photo that Ron Moore has said on a couple of occasions does not have the 5th. So it might be someone else on the basestar or it is someone that was with neither group.

No--Kara will lead "them all" to "their end", whatever that means :).

I thought it was that Kara would lead them to ruin, which she did.

"Not in the Fleet" -- as soon as she said that my first though was that "the fifth must already be on the Basestar."?

That's possible, or it could be that the final five already have copies residing on earth. I tend to think that is the most likely scenario, because that statement leads most to make your assumption, or the assumption that the fifth is someone we have yet to meet. This way, it could be someone on the basestar or someone who has died during the show.

Have they announced when the second half of the final season will air?

The preview said "Coming Soon" MY A**!!!! 09 isn't soon by any standard. Punks :-)

I've just about given up on outguessing this show and Ron Moore multiple meaning hints since I've been wrong at almost every turn.

I'm almost to the point of thinking the 5th was the Mysterious Viper in a rather interesting design though somebody at least close to Kara seems most likely.


I'm a bit confused about the "3 years Ago" speech since they apparently spent close to 2 years on New Caprica?? and supposedly there were a couple other jumps in time as well. Hera certainly looks like she's at least 3 and more like 4 years old which would tend to make the Exodus at least 5 years ago given anywhere near a normal pregnancy.

Tigh in the airlock… good. Announcing to the fleet they have finished their journey before even going to the surface… lame and completely unreal. Irradiated earth? Lame. Serves them right to have such dour faces.

Will be hard pressed to check in next year. Very disappointed.

And you’ll see, Head Six will be the Fifth.

Looked like part of the Brooklyn Bridge to me too.

One word...Wha?! It's still 2008, right?

Tigh in the airlock… good. Announcing to the fleet they have finished their journey before even going to the surface… lame and completely unreal. Irradiated earth? Lame. Serves them right to have such dour faces.

Will be hard pressed to check in next year. Very disappointed.

And you’ll see, Head Six will be the Fifth.

Wha???

Great episode - tense and surreal throughout. One of the best.

Part of me says...why the sourpuss faces? Who wants an overcrowded Earth, anyway? Lot's of space to start over, build a new life? A Boomer or 6 for every man, and nothing better to do but breed till the sun goes down? I'm not seeing a downside, yet! :D

Ok, the ground is radioactive, but we got technology for that (someone did pack the technology before leaving Caprica, right?). I mean really, just shoot a Genesis torpedo at it or something. Things are gonna be fine...

Announcing to the fleet they have finished their journey before even going to the surface… lame and completely unreal.

That was indeed super lame. How could they start partying without having any idea what's up on the surface? Otherwise a great episode.

Oh well, it's just tv, see you in 09...

I've just about given up on outguessing this show and Ron Moore multiple meaning hints since I've been wrong at almost every turn.

I'm almost to the point of thinking the 5th was the Mysterious Viper in a rather interesting design though somebody at least close to Kara seems most likely.


I'm a bit confused about the "3 years Ago" speech since they apparently spent close to 2 years on New Caprica?? .

14 months I believe between Baltar's election and the start of season 3.

I avoided the thread, but I wish I had avoided it before all the posts from those that had seen it and read the ain't it cool article. The speculation about finding Earth ruined the surprise ending.

Same here. I'd read about the possibility a long time ago on a spoiler site, and I envy those who got to watch it without figuring out exactly what was coming along. No spoilers for me for 4.5; unlike S2 and all but the last episode of S3, I'm very curious to see how things develop since I have utterly no idea where they're taking this now.

My only thought is that once upon a time in a podcast (or forum, or something) I vaguely remember RDM mentioning writers using the Odyssey as a guide to story writing; well, I guess Odysseus got to Ithaca and found all the suitors already dead....

I thought it was that Kara would lead them to ruin, which she did.Word for word, what the Hybrid said in "Faith" was:"Thus will it come to pass.
The dying leader will know the truth of the Opera House.
The missing three will give you the five,
who have come from the home of the 13th.
You are the Harbinger of Death, Kara Thrace.
You will lead them all to their end.
End of line."Define "them all" and "their end" and we might know something :). Since the rest of the diatribe is about "the dying lead", "the missing three" and "the five", it could well be only those people whom she will lead to "their end". When dealing with predictions by oracles, one must take care to avoid wrong assumptions--typically, they want to be misinterpreted. (Apparently another Hybrid said something similar in Razor, but I can't remember it very well. I need to watch that again sometime--I think that I slept through most of the second half. I'd rent a download, but Amazon Unbox only has it available for purchase, and I don't want to see it again $15 worth :). It was two episodes worth of BSG, but since it was released as a standalone DVD, it's suddenly worth a lot more. I could buy any two episodes of BSG at Unbox for $4).

That was indeed super lame. How could they start partying without having any idea what's up on the surface? Otherwise a great episode.

Oh well, it's just tv, see you in 09...

I actually enjoyed the moment. I also think it's a moment they felt they had to give us after all these seasons of searching for earth. I think a lot of people would have felt robbed to not get any joy out of finding earth, even if it was brief.

I think it made complete sense. It's something called "irrational exuberance" and you can see it here on Earth all the time. If you think about the story leading up to this point, you'd have to be a Vulcan in real life to not expect an irrational, premature celebration from 30,000 humans who've been trapped aboard ships for 2 years.

The human behavior is what makes this show so great.

This one had me completely on edge the whole time, especially Tigh in the airlock!:eek:

I've suspected for a long time that they would arrive at a wasteland Earth. Somehow, I don't think that this is the "Earth" that they're supposed to end up at, but is probably "our" Earth at some point in the distant future.

This Earth is probably where it all began; humans, cylons, and the endless cycle. The place that the 13th went may very well be a "different" Earth. OR, the same cycle happened again sometime after the 13th settled on Earth.

ONe of many nagging questions: Kara excited when she returned to Galactica after her absence. "I've been to Earth! I know the way, yeah!!!"

Guess she didn't take a walking tour.

Cool ending, but of course still leaves us with the "so where did Kara's new viper come from".

I can't believe most had not expected a post apocalypic earth from day one.

ONe of many nagging questions: Kara excited when she returned to Galactica after her absence. "I've been to Earth! I know the way, yeah!!!"

Guess she didn't take a walking tour.

Cool ending, but of course still leaves us with the "so where did Kara's new viper come from".

Good point about the viper. Do we speculate that the 13th tribe did it?....and the reason was so that both humans and cylons could see where they were heading if they didn't reconcile?

Didn't kara say that she felt the air(?) in her skin and didn't want to leave?

Anyway, I thought this was a great episode. It could have been the series end.

One thing that I'm glad of is that they didn't drag on finding earth for the next ten episodes in a slow water torture sort of way.

This one had me completely on edge the whole time, especially Tigh in the airlock!:eek:

I've suspected for a long time that they would arrive at a wasteland Earth. Somehow, I don't think that this is the "Earth" that they're supposed to end up at, but is probably "our" Earth at some point in the distant future.

This Earth is probably where it all began; humans, cylons, and the endless cycle. The place that the 13th went may very well be a "different" Earth. OR, the same cycle happened again sometime after the 13th settled on Earth.


.............so the question is where did the 13th tribe go? Maybe to another planet? and if so...where's that?

I avoided the thread, but I wish I had avoided it before all the posts from those that had seen it and read the ain't it cool article. The speculation about finding Earth ruined the surprise ending.

Yes. That's why I was griping earlier when one poster said after reading AICN that it looks like they find Earth.:mad:

Its an internet forum guys. If you're that concerned about spoilers, don't read the forum for a few hours. Its not like it hasn't been discussed to Kobol and back. duh

I can't believe most had not expected a post apocalypic earth from day one.

That part didn't surprise me either. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if the "This has all happened" before" part of the prophecy means Earth was where it all started, and now they've come full circle.

Its an internet forum guys. If you're that concerned about spoilers, don't read the forum for a few hours. Its not like it hasn't been discussed to Kobol and back. duh

I'm talking about from yesterday at noon. Hours before the episode even first aired.

I'm talking about from yesterday at noon. Hours before the episode even first aired.

Do we need to have a AVS BSG intervention for you? :D

Do we need to have a AVS BSG intervention for you? :D

Yes. Please.

Were I a male or lesbian member of the BSG fleet I'd be pretty excited. Suddenly there's lots of surplus Sixs and Boomers that can only breed with a human. Life is good!

Why oh why didn't they land in a more temperate climate so all the hot models could try out their space bikinis???

The six impregnated by the more evolved Cylon Tigh, might give us the fifth.
What if she goes on an ultra quick incubation period, and spits out the fifth?
He or she could be king. Or it could just be a Grendel.

Why oh why didn't they land in a more temperate climate so all the hot models could try out their space bikinis???

Or all the Sharon's could have just gone naked :) Maybe this is just nudist Earth incinerated by the one God for the cleansing of their sins. :eek:

.............so the question is where did the 13th tribe go? Maybe to another planet? and if so...where's that?

Kobol.

Earth is homeworld. They send out expeditions and colonize Kobol. Meanwhile, those remaining on Earth go nuts and destroy the place.

Kobol then sends out expeditions and forms the colonies. Enter Cylons who are created, then rebel, then try to exterminate their creators. Humans flee back to Earth, wait until the radiation levels are safe, then re-colonize Earth after destroying the remaining Cylons who were with them.

After a while, the histories are lost and Earth decides to expand to space. An expedition is sent to Kobol which is in ruins. They re-claim it and rebuild it. Then, they expand to form the colonies which are in ruins. They re-claim and rebuild them. Forgetting the past, humans create Cylons....who eventually rebel and try to kill their creators, who then flee to.....

....or something like that.

Kobol.

Earth is homeworld. They send out expeditions and colonize Kobol. Meanwhile, those remaining on Earth go nuts and destroy the place.

Kobol then sends out expeditions and forms the colonies. Enter Cylons who are created, then rebel, then try to exterminate their creators. Humans flee back to Earth, wait until the radiation levels are safe, then re-colonize Earth after destroying the remaining Cylons who were with them.

After a while, the histories are lost and Earth decides to expand to space. An expedition is sent to Kobol which is in ruins. They re-claim it and rebuild it. Then, they expand to form the colonies which are in ruins. They re-claim and rebuild them. Forgetting the past, humans create Cylons....who eventually rebel and try to kill their creators, who then flee to.....

....or something like that.

You and I are in agreement on that theory. And the prophecies come from the remaining fragments of all that collective history.

Kobol.

Earth is homeworld. They send out expeditions and colonize Kobol. Meanwhile, those remaining on Earth go nuts and destroy the place.

Kobol then sends out expeditions and forms the colonies. Enter Cylons who are created, then rebel, then try to exterminate their creators. Humans flee back to Earth, wait until the radiation levels are safe, then re-colonize Earth after destroying the remaining Cylons who were with them.

After a while, the histories are lost and Earth decides to expand to space. An expedition is sent to Kobol which is in ruins. They re-claim it and rebuild it. Then, they expand to form the colonies which are in ruins. They re-claim and rebuild them. Forgetting the past, humans create Cylons....who eventually rebel and try to kill their creators, who then flee to.....

....or something like that.

The problem with that theory is the scrolls tells us that they all had to leave Kobol because of some dispute with the gods. 12 left for the colonies and the 13th to earth.

Great ep, thought the speech and reactions were perfect and the surface visit to Earth went the only way it really could.

I'm talking about from yesterday at noon. Hours before the episode even first aired.

The episode first aired at 9:00 am EDT, that was a choice made by the Sci-Fi channel. As others have said, if you think something may be posted that would give away part of the plot don't read the forum until after you have seen the episode.

It was your choice to either watch the episode when it first aired (at 9:00am) or wait until later. It was your choice to read the forum before you viewed the final episode. Why should those that wished to view it earlier wait until you've decided it's time to discuss the episode.

No one that viewed the first airing gave anything away. If you read the article that's your fault, if you read the posting that discussed the article that's your fault.

I saw those posting and did not read them. I did not go to the article that was linked. I viewed the episode three times, once at 10:00 am, again at 11:00 am and then at 10:00 pm. The only thing I posted about the episode was that I had watched it, nothing else.

You have no one to blame but yourself if anything you read spoiled the episode for you because no one forced you to read it.

Word for word, what the Hybrid said in "Faith" was:[indent]"Thus will it come to pass.
The dying leader will know the truth of the Opera House.
The missing three will give you the five,
who have come from the home of the 13th.
You are the Harbinger of Death, Kara Thrace.
You will lead them all to their end.
End of line."

well I am going to take a stab at figuring this out

first line.....duh

The dying leader will know the truth of the Opera House:

Roslyn will have a vision to explain what happened on "Earth" or even the enite history going back to the opera house on Kobol.

The missing three will give you the five:

We have taken this to mean d'anna but it could also have been the missing three in that episode as in the 3 cylons everyone was looking for (tyrol, tigh, and anders) gives you the five meaning either the final five or the fifth cylon. Either the viper itself or they find the fifth on this planet or the fifth turns on at some point on the planet.

who have come from the home of the 13th:

I am guessing here but this may not be the home of the 13th. The scrolls also say life here began out there.


A harbinger is a sign of things to come. Throughout history and literature, harbingers and omens figure prominently, and are responsible for major decisions which have altered the course of both. Harbingers are often wrong and at times show only a probable future not an unchangable one. This may be were the other cylons come into play. maybe the alliance will hold but not their future.

You will lead them all to their end:

I still believe this means to the end of the cycle. maybe this means they are all destroyed or they start to rebuild, or find a new planet. Or maybe this is 'Earth' is the harbingers message about their future if things stay as they are or to reaffirm their alliance and the role of the five is to tell the story of what happened to 'Earth'

anyway just throwing stuff out there.

I actually enjoyed the moment. I also think it's a moment they felt they had to give us after all these seasons of searching for earth. I think a lot of people would have felt robbed to not get any joy out of finding earth, even if it was brief.


True....

Almost seemed like it was a "Mission Accomplished" speech. :D

The episode first aired at 9:00 am EDT, that was a choice made by the Sci-Fi channel. As others have said, if you think something may be posted that would give away part of the plot don't read the forum until after you have seen the episode.

It was your choice to either watch the episode when it first aired (at 9:00am) or wait until later. It was your choice to read the forum before you viewed the final episode. Why should those that wished to view it earlier wait until you've decided it's time to discuss the episode.

No one that viewed the first airing gave anything away. If you read the article that's your fault, if you read the posting that discussed the article that's your fault.

I saw those posting and did not read them. I did not go to the article that was linked. I viewed the episode three times, once at 10:00 am, again at 11:00 am and then at 10:00 pm. The only thing I posted about the episode was that I had watched it, nothing else.

You have no one to blame but yourself if anything you read spoiled the episode for you because no one forced you to read it.

That is still a violation of the Forum Rules. READ THEM AIRBOSS. The part about WHEN you can post spoilers is quite clear. And I was talking about a spoiler given by someone who read it off of the internet, and then posted it here HOURS before the standard episode air time. NOT from someone who viewed the episode early. BTW, the Moderator complained about it too.

The episode first aired at 9:00 am EDT, that was a choice made by the Sci-Fi channel. As others have said, if you think something may be posted that would give away part of the plot don't read the forum until after you have seen the episode.

It was your choice to either watch the episode when it first aired (at 9:00am) or wait until later. It was your choice to read the forum before you viewed the final episode. Why should those that wished to view it earlier wait until you've decided it's time to discuss the episode.

No one that viewed the first airing gave anything away. If you read the article that's your fault, if you read the posting that discussed the article that's your fault.

I saw those posting and did not read them. I did not go to the article that was linked. I viewed the episode three times, once at 10:00 am, again at 11:00 am and then at 10:00 pm. The only thing I posted about the episode was that I had watched it, nothing else.

You have no one to blame but yourself if anything you read spoiled the episode for you because no one forced you to read it.

Spoiler rules are based on the first broadcast (on the network) for the Eastern US time zone. This is a SciFi HD thread, so it must air on SciFi HD to discuss openly. Advance screenings, DVD screeners, or web broadcasts are considered spoilers.

Nobody should need to avoid the thread to avoid unprotected (spoiler tagged) spoilers until 10pm Friday in this case. That includes discussion of an article with spoilers.

My first thoughts on the ruins were that they looked like the Opera House.

We have no idea when we get more edisodes?

Note that D'Anna said that only four of them were with them in the fleet. I wonder if she knows where the fifth is?
Yeah, there's nothing standing in the way of their love now :).

Of course, she could have been lying. Still, I think that it's of the crew on the Baseship -Roslyn, Baltar or Helo. I think they want you to narrow it down to Roslyn/Baltar, but Helo seems to become a stronger possibility ever episode.

Here is the thing: We thought that Hera was important because she was the first hybrid baby. However, as we have now seen with Tigh and Six, the Final Five can conceive with the other skinjobs. Perhaps, Hera is important because she is the first Cylon child. Makes sense why head six was so interested in her.

The problem with that theory is the scrolls tells us that they all had to leave Kobol because of some dispute with the gods. 12 left for the colonies and the 13th to earth.

Just substitue Kobol as homeworld and repeat as necessary.

I think the idea is that everything is caught in some type of Mobius strip.

The humans and Cylons are caught in a cyclical pattern of creation and destruction that will keep repeating until they figure out that they need each other.

True....

Almost seemed like it was a "Mission Accomplished" speech. :D

lol, Thats exactly what I was saying to myself when watching

Just substitue Kobol as homeworld and repeat as necessary.

I think the idea is that everything is caught in some type of Mobius strip.

The humans and Cylons are caught in a cyclical pattern of creation and destruction that will keep repeating until they figure out that they need each other.

I agree with that but I think there is another purpose for the cycle ...possiblely evolution of the cyclon/human race which may be the same. or from many gods to one. too many directions to take this.

I agree with that but I think there is another purpose for the cycle ...possiblely evolution of the cyclon/human race which may be the same. or from many gods to one. too many directions to take this.

Is it possible the Final Five are the remnants of the 13th tribe? That is when they were on Earth?

Somehow, they flee a dying Earth/Kobol, and start the cycle again by being involved (knowingly or not) with the creation of the Cylons in the colonies.

I just read the Aintitcoolnews.com article and I am getting super excited for the finale. I am guessing they find Earth.Jeez, Rutgar--were you getting all upset about that post??? It was utter and profound speculation. Nothing in that aintitcoolnews.com article (http://www.aintitcool.com/node/37054) even suggests that they find Earth and the poster said that it was a guess. He took a stab at what could have happened that could be so big as to produce the wild excitement of the blogger and he was right. We guess what's going to happen all the time in this thread, and gadianton didn't have any more information than you, other than the ridiculous fever-pitch tone of a blogger who'd seen the episode.

This is the sum total of the spoilery things that the guy says in that blog entry, none of which was revealed by anyone in this thread:"Is it true, as you intimated last week, that the focus this week shifts back on the circumstances of Starbuck’s resurrection?
It could be argued that Starbuck and her miracle viper are key components of this week’s story.

Is the final Cylon revealed this week?
No.

What else is SciFi not telling us?
D’Anna has officially ascended from Boxey to Head Toaster In Charge. Despite last week’s Bill-Laura reunion, Lee Adama’s presidency continues. And we will see a side of Bill never before glimpsed!

What’s great?
An insane amount of tension among the Watchtower Four now that D’Anna can identify them; handprints will be permanently squeezed into sofa arms across America Friday night as a deadly showdown between Lee and D’Anna escalates. Then the final act kicks the episode, the season and the series into the stratosphere. 'Revelations' is one aptly titled installment. You will revel in the reveals the episode bestows and curse those you're denied."I don't know about you, but I didn't guess that they were going to find Earth from those scraps.

What is with you guys this morning? Did your wive's puke in your cerial? I only agreed with CPanther about the spoiler of finding Earth. Do you guys jump on him? No. So why are you making a big deal out my post?

I didn't read the AICN blog. But the poster implied that from reading it, they find Earth. He then posted it here. I though that to be a Spoiler. I asked if it was. Several people said no, so I deleted my post. Later CPanther complained about the Finding Earth spoiler. All I did was agree with him.

I think some of you need more sleep.

My point is that it wasn't a spoiler and that he identified it as a guess. He said, "I read the blog and now I'm guessing that they find Earth"; he didn't say, "I read the blog and I see where it mentions that they find Earth." There were a few spoilers in that blog entry and neither he or anyone else who read that article revealed any of them. gadianton posted a guess apparently based on the vague assessment, "the final act kicks the episode, the season and the series into the stratosphere." Does that statement spell, "They find Earth" to you? It didn't to me.

I know that CPanther95 thought that it was a spoiler and felt that it ruined the episode for him--IMO, he's wrong.

Yes, it was identified as a guess - but it was a guess based on the info derived from reading an article with spoilers in it. No, finding Earth wasn't spilled in the article, but it was clear that something big - very, very big would happen. Add to that the fact that they say that the final cylon isn't revealed. So what's left? Sure, there could be some other BIG thing that happens, but we all anticipated that there were two big things remaining - revealing the final cylon and getting to Earth. This article eliminated one of those.

Guesses and speculation are fine, but speculation derived from the knowledge gained from reading spoilers should not be posted. At a minimum, they should not be posted and identified as coming from reading spoilers (or from someone who previously indicated they viewed the show early, or were exposed to spoilers).

The problem with that post was saying "I just read the aintitcool article" then saying I'm guessing they find Earth. Not much point in heeding all the warnings not to view the article because of spoilers, then being exposed to the conclusions drawn from people who are aware of the spoilers.

That is still a violation of the Forum Rules. READ THEM AIRBOSS. The part about WHEN you can post spoilers is quite clear. And I was talking about a spoiler given by someone who read it off of the internet, and then posted it here HOURS before the standard episode air time. NOT from someone who viewed the episode early. BTW, the Moderator complained about it too.

Rutgar, I know the forum rules, that's why my post only stated that I had viewed the earlier airing.

Since I did not see any spoilers posted by those who viewed the earlier airing and see nothing wrong with taking advantage of viewing on line I took offense at comments I believed were directed at me for viewing the episode on line and posting that I had.

I thought you were complaining about those who viewed the earlier airing, as others have done. If that is not the case, as you have pointed out above, I owe you an apology.

Rutgar's please accept my apology for my comments directed toward your post, I was in err.

Spoiler rules are based on the first broadcast (on the network) for the Eastern US time zone. This is a SciFi HD thread, so it must air on SciFi HD to discuss openly. Advance screenings, DVD screeners, or web broadcasts are considered spoilers.

Nobody should need to avoid the thread to avoid unprotected (spoiler tagged) spoilers until 10pm Friday in this case. That includes discussion of an article with spoilers.

Noted.

The problem with that post was saying "I just read the aintitcool article" then saying I'm guessing they find Earth.<Shrug>. Reluctantly agreed. The way that he posted his guess would lead one to believe that there was something that might have been said in the blog entry that gave it away.

Personally, there were about 10 things in my mind that might have happened in that episode and finding Earth was not one of them. Now that they've found Earth I have no idea where they'll go with this series and my expectations are not high. I can't imagine 12 more hours worth of interesting things and I expect that several of them will be similar to the nearly unwatchable "The Road Less Traveled" and "Escape Velocity" episodes, where nothing much happens other than tedious dialogue.

I read that article, and dint feel it ruined the ending for me.
The part about not revealing the final Cylon, did stick out while watching, however it actually was better, since I put aside the idea that they mite reveal the fifth, and just enjoyed the show.

So if this is Earth, why is Roslin still alive? the prophecy says that she dies before finding it, her only home is Galactica. They hammered this on the last ep, I think its just another plot twist, to kick start the show in 2009.

Rutgar, I know the forum rules, that's why my post only stated that I had viewed the earlier airing.

Since I did not see any spoilers posted by those who viewed the earlier airing and see nothing wrong with taking advantage of viewing on line I took offense at comments I believed were directed at me for viewing the episode on line and posting that I had.

I thought you were complaining about those who viewed the earlier airing, as others have done. If that is not the case, as you have pointed out above, I owe you an apology.

Rutgar's please accept my apology for my comments directed toward your post, I was in err.

Ah, I see. Apology accepted! I think what probably also added to the confusion is that I deleted my post addressing the 'internet spoiler'. I deleted it because if it wasn't a spoiler (as a couple of followup posts suggested), then I didn't want the thread to go off on a tangent. Best intentions, eh? :D

So when I agreed with CPanther, I was refering back to the "interenet" post. And not any posts made by early viewers of the episode. In fact, yesterday afternoon when I saw that people were posting that they had already watched the episode, I did in fact quit reading this forum just in case something might have slipped out.

Now that we have all of this straight, I'm tempted to go back an delete my first reply to you. But I'm afraid that if I do, then it might lead to just more confusion. So maybe I better leave well enough alone. ;)

In my defense, I present the following posts in chronological order earliest post first.

Posted 6/10/08
I hope that is true, but I think it is more likely they will find earth for the mid-season cliffhanger and we won't know the final cylon until next year.

Regarding the final cylon, I've been thinking that it may be Greystone's daughter reborn... so maybe Dee? or Hera?

I have guessed that they would find Earth long before the aintitcool article, and have posted that guess here to discuss.

Posted 6/12/08 - The post in question
I just read the Aintitcoolnews.com article and I am getting super excited for the finale. I am guessing they find Earth.

I read the article, as an earlier poster mentioned I refrained from posting any of the spoilers from the article, and instead got excited to see the episode, and once again reiterated my earlier guess about finding earth.

Posted 6/12/08 later in the day
Hmm, I read in the comments on the aintitcool story that SciFi was streaming the full episode starting tomorrow 9am-4pm est. I may have to get up a bit and watch it before work. (It would probably be better quality than the crappy SD picture I get from my cable co.)

BTW, the spoiler sensitive may want to stay away from the web, I've seen a few full spoilers of tomorrow's episode floating around in comments, though the ainticool news story was ok.

After posting here I went back to the article and starting reading the comments. Some of them has more spoilery items. (Links to full spoilers) In any case, I posted a warning to the spoiler sensitive here and then refrained from any other posting (other than a DRM joke) until after the episode aired.

So if people misconstrued my guess as a spoiler, I apologize, but I didn't have any knowledge of them finding Earth... it was just a guess that I happen to have been right about.

Noted.

You didn't post any thing wrong (accept the interpretation of the web airing making discussion fair game). Seeing an episode in advance - and posting that you have already seen it - isn't a problem. Only problem would be entering plot discussions after identifying the fact that you've already seen it.

"Don't get your hopes up about finding out the final cylon's identity" etc.

"Great episode" etc. is fine.

Just avoid anything at all that mentions anything that couldn't have been known if you didn't have any advance knowledge. For instance, many people had the twist at the end of Sixth Sense ruined by people that were told "there's a huge twist at the end, but I'm not going to tell you what it was because it will shock the hell out of you". Just knowing there was a major twist at the end would be enough for plenty of people to figure out what was going to happen well before the ending.

Clearly a case of someone that grossly underestimates the number of people that are more intellegent than they are. ;)

Posted 6/10/08

I have guessed that they would find Earth long before the aintitcool article, and have posted that guess here to discuss.


Like I said, guessing they find Earth on 6/10 (or even 6/13) is no problem at all. The only issue was saying that you read the spoilers in the article and then reiterating that you think they found Earth.

I just watched that final scene on "Earth" a few times over and I can't see any hint of the remanants of a bridge. There's lot of stuff in the water, but nothing that I can positively identify as being part of the structure of a bridge.

One thing that you didn't get from watching the webcast was that tiny scrap of a preview at the end. It looks like yet another wonderfully dull and depressing episode to me: Tigh standing pointing a gun at someone on the floor with thick, dark curly hair, someone reading a book by fire, a hand holding out dog tags and a ring on a lanyard, Starbuck sitting alone at a gigantic bonfire on a desolate beach, Adama grieving over a sheet-covered dead body. The only interesting thing is a voice (Tigh's?) saying "You're the fifth," over the BSG logo with the words "Coming Soon" (in only six or seven months :rolleyes:) beneath it. Being a preview on the mid-season finale, it could have been scenes taken from a few future episodes--who knows?

Were I a male or lesbian member of the BSG fleet I'd be pretty excited. Suddenly there's lots of surplus Sixs and Boomers that can only breed with a human. Life is good!

Think twice about that. Those Cylon women are strong. The same could be said for D'anna and Tori. That one quick romp could be your last if you disappoint. Does the phrase "black window" come to mind?

Yes, it was identified as a guess - but it was a guess based on the info derived from reading an article with spoilers in it.

LOL ... this is why I avoid this thread and the Lost and Heroes threads. I'm always amazed at how accurate some of these so-called "guesses" and "speculation," turn out. :D

Surely, there must be some other way to achieve "internet hero" status. :)

I can't believe most had not expected a post apocalypic earth from day one.

Hey, I've been aping the Planet of the Apes ending for months alongside the Newhart ending.

We've officially done the Planet of the Apes ending -- the next ten episodes will be the Newhart ending. Bill will wake up next to Laura and say, "Honey, you won't believe the dream I just had." And then he says that Tigh was married to one the Sixes, and she asks, "What do you mean, beautiful blonde?"

I went into this season wondering how they were going to wrap in 20 episodes. Now I am wondering how they're going to string this out into ten episodes.

Does the phrase "black window" come to mind?

Say what? (Insert head scratching smiley of choice in mind since I hate those things)

I just watched that final scene on "Earth" a few times over and I can't see any hint of the remanants of a bridge. There's lot of stuff in the water, but nothing that I can positively identify as being part of the structure of a bridge.

in the very last pan shot....its on the right of the screen right before it fades to black....it looks like only a 1/2 a bridge with the tower on the far right.

The city in the closing scenes last night was not New York, in fact if you poke around Google Earth and Live Search you will find that it is actually Sydney Australia. They are standing near what is not St Aloysius' College, which has a large cross on one of the buildings, could be the same one shown laying on the ground. The bridge structure is very similar to the Sydney Harbor Bridge. They would be walking on the opposite shore from the Sydney Opera House. The Opera house should be significant.

http://www.panoramio.com/photos/original/101203.jpg

I'd really love to see a capture of that ruined city skyline from the episode that I could get up on screen and compare side-to-side to pictures of places on our world. I've tried flashing back and forth between a paused view of the scene in the episode and a photo on my PC and I can't decide. If I could slide still views against one another maybe. Oh well.

Maybe I've missed something, but here's a question; It's quite obvious why the humans wanted to find Earth. But why was it so important for the Rebel Cylons to also find Earth? If it was the other group of Cylons, then the answer would be to destroy it. So what's the Rebels motivation?

<Shrug>. Reluctantly agreed. The way that he posted his guess would lead one to believe that there was something that might have been said in the blog entry that gave it away.

Personally, there were about 10 things in my mind that might have happened in that episode and finding Earth was not one of them. Now that they've found Earth I have no idea where they'll go with this series and my expectations are not high. I can't imagine 12 more hours worth of interesting things and I expect that several of them will be similar to the nearly unwatchable "The Road Less Traveled" and "Escape Velocity" episodes, where nothing much happens other than tedious dialogue.


Unlike the original series, this one is not just about finding Earth. It's about religion and spirituality (both human and cylon), there are still plenty of questions to be answered, and the story not close to an end.

Maybe I've missed something, but here's a question; It's quite obvious why the humans wanted to find Earth. But why was it so important for the Rebel Cylons to also find Earth? If it was the other group of Cylons, then the answer would be to destroy it. So what's the Rebels motivation?In Season 3 episode (either "The Eye of Jupiter" or "Rapture"), a delegation of Cylons lead by D'Anna claimed that they wanted to find the way to Earth because they'd decided that they want to live there too.

Unlike the original series, this one is not just about finding Earth. It's about religion and spirituality (both human and cylon), there are still plenty of questions to be answered, and the story not close to an end.I'm not all that interested in religion and spirituality and series Sci Fi television isn't where I'd turn to study it if I were. I don't mind that being an aspect of BSG, but when it concentrates on it, it dissolves into tiresome ******** for me. It did that for a couple of episodes and consequently almost lost me as a viewer; I'm hoping that it doesn't do it again, though I'm really afraid that it might.

The city in the closing scenes last night was not New York, in fact if you poke around Google Earth and Live Search you will find that it is actually Sydney Australia. They are standing near what is not St Aloysius' College, which has a large cross on one of the buildings, could be the same one shown laying on the ground. The bridge structure is very similar to the Sydney Harbor Bridge. They would be walking on the opposite shore from the Sydney Opera House. The Opera house should be significant.

http://www.panoramio.com/photos/original/101203.jpg

That could be a match.

I poked around Google Earth trying to find a match for that metal dome without much luck.

Man, the Battlestar Wiki is gettin' hammered to a pulp today :). I was trying to check some things and could only sporadically get a response. BTW, the entry for "Revelations" there, though not at all filled out yet, does give a speculation that it's the NYC skyline, though they admit that its merely speculation.

I'd really love to see a capture of that ruined city skyline from the episode that I could get up on screen and compare side-to-side to pictures of places on our world. I've tried flashing back and forth between a paused view of the scene in the episode and a photo on my PC and I can't decide. If I could slide still views against one another maybe. Oh well.

Ok, I threw this together real quick (did not spend a lot of time on it so take it for what it is). Just took some quick photos off my TV and put them together in Photoshop.

Ruined City Skyline BSG Revelations (http://www.randgraphics.org/bsg/bsg.html)

BTW, the entry for "Revelations" there, though not at all filled out yet, does give a speculation that it's the NYC skyline, though they admit that its merely speculation.

That would be our luck. Travelers from many galaxies away come to Earth and their first impression is Jersey.

Ok, I threw this together real quick (did not spend a lot of time on it so take it for what it is). Just took some quick photos off my TV and put them together in Photoshop.

Ruined City Skyline BSG Revelations (http://www.randgraphics.org/bsg/bsg.html)Thanks--that's very helpful! The picture of the daytime Sydney skyline that Arative posted is nearly a match (in perspective) for the view in BSG, but I can't find a similar of the Manhattan skyline as taken from the other side of the Brooklyn bridge with the bridge to the far right of the picture. I even looked at the panaramio.com site that Arative linked to and while I found several nice pictures of the bridge, no luck on finding that particular view.

Think twice about that. Those Cylon women are strong. The same could be said for D'anna and Tori. That one quick romp could be your last if you disappoint. Does the phrase "black window" come to mind?

Sorry, but you meant "black widow" (as in black widow spider - the female kills the male after they mate).

Prospect60, hope that clarifies things.

Thanks--that's very helpful! The picture of the daytime Sydney skyline that Arative posted is nearly a match (in perspective) for the view in BSG, but I can't find a similar of the Manhattan skyline as taken from the other side of the Brooklyn bridge with the bridge to the far right of the picture. I even looked at the panaramio.com site that Arative linked to and while I found several nice pictures of the bridge, no luck on finding that particular view.


Here are a few (not great but...)

First (http://www.september11news.com/Sept16SkylineNYCNightBrooklynBridge.jpg)

Second (http://k43.pbase.com/g4/31/363631/2/62266872.6waTCaPH.jpg) - This one is pretty good

Third (http://photos.dezmix.com/img/v2/p296615303-3.jpg)

Fourth (http://www.michaelmoore.ca/blog/uploaded_images/new-york-skyline-at-nigh-SMALL.jpg)

Swiped this from Home Theater Forum, who swiped it from Galactica SitRep:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/imgcache/31483.imgcache


I'm pretty sure I read that RDM said that this is NYC.

Some unanswered questions for the remaining episodes (I do not expect them all to be answered or even addressed, but they could be):

What happened to Earth? Internal destruction (national wars) or a war with aliens? If the latter, then who, and where are they now?

Did anyone survive the destruction of Earth? If so, where did they go?

Who sent Kara back with the Viper that led the way home?

Who sent the signal to activate the Final Four (Five?)?

Are those who sent Kara back and those who sent the signal the same? If not, are they working toward a common goal or at cross-purposes?

Where are the other Cylons, and what are they doing?

Lots of questions to answer, and really not a whole lot of time to properly flesh things out, if you ask me.

One thing to keep in mind is that the skylines of modern cities may be somewhat irrelevant since the destruction could have occurred centuries, or even thousands of years from now. The Earth destroyed wouldn't be the Earth that we know, even though it's on the same rock.

I heard just the opposite, DavidF. Over at TWoP, they're saying that inside sources indicate it's not supposed to be the Brooklyn Bridge or NY. Who knows? They've misled us before, but really, I don't think that those bridges look similar.

I really really like the Sydney idea, mostly because of the Opera House connection.

One thing to keep in mind is that the skylines of modern cities may be somewhat irrelevant since the destruction could have occurred centuries, or even thousands of years from now. The Earth destroyed wouldn't be the Earth that we know, even though it's on the same rock.

I see what you're saying, but it can be tomorrow as well.

Or, it could be 40 years ago.

I had another thought. What if they aren't on Earth? I mean at the end of season 3, we clearly see North America, Florida in particular. It appeared to be lush and green.

Now they get to a planet that appears to have been destroyed in a nuclear war. There were no landmasses shown from orbit or when they were landing. The constellations match but I think and someone correct me if I am wrong, couldn't another planet say within 10 light years of Earth still have the constellations?

What if this planet is a test from the final cylon, to see if human and cylon can work together?

Oh and I'd just like to say, if EJO doesn't win an Emmy for the scene after Tigh tells Adama he's a Cylon, something is seriously fraked up with the world!!

Oh and I'd just like to say, if EJO doesn't win an Emmy for the scene after Tigh tells Adama he's a Cylon, something is seriously fraked up with the world!!

SciFi shows don't get Emmy's for acting. "Buffy" deserved an Emmy every year it ran. Others would argue the same for "Farscape" and some of the "Star Trek" spinoffs. Nope, HBO could air "Sopranos: We Felt Like Airing a Reunion to Bring Subscribers Back" and just show James Galdafini on the toilet for 30 minutes, and it would win an Emmy.


I'm pretty sure I read that RDM said that this is NYC.

Some unanswered questions for the remaining episodes (I do not expect them all to be answered or even addressed, but they could be):

What happened to Earth? Internal destruction (national wars) or a war with aliens? If the latter, then who, and where are they now?



I've never even set foot in NYC and I recognized it as such. What's up w/ picking on the Brooklyn Bridge? Cloverfield made special use of it, too. They could at least try the Washington Bridge or something! :p

Well, I doubt that the other Cylons nuked Earth out of spite, but you never know.

ugh....Jan/Feb 09 is a LONG WAYS AWAY!

I really really hope that spoilers do not leak out about the conclusion...I might just not visit the internet until the last episode in April/May :D

This finale really was genius though. As a series finale we'd all have been disappointed (no matter what they found on Earth), but by moving up what most thought would be the end of the series, they effectively were able to achieve surprise with something virtually everybody assumed would happen.

Now we get Season 4.5: "The Return to Caprica" :)

A couple of smaller things I noted during the episode that kind of got lost amongst the huge ending...

The Good:
Tyrol was awesome in this episode. Did anyone else notice his reactions? When they came to arrest him and Anders he just laughed, then the whole time in the airlock he had this smirk on his face. Even on the destroyed Earth at the end he was laughing. The scene when Diana first stepped aboard Galactica and all 4 were there was pretty awesome as well.

The ??:
-Am I the only one who finds it a bit unreasonable that they could, in an instant, decide to forget the past and strike a truce with a group that just killed billions (including many loved ones for almost every character), virtually enslaved them (New Caprica), and stabbed them in the back multiple times as recently as that same day? Oh nevermind though, we won't hold a grudge or anything, let's just be friends.
-It seemed like (even before Tigh revealed himself to Adama) Adama was deferring every major decision to the president (Lee). Adama's been making (or at least at the head of the decision) these calls for the entire 4+ year run of the series. All of the sudden, someone else does it?
-I was also kind of surprised that D'Anna was suddenly leader of the Cylons again. True, she held valuable information, but that all seemed to happen a bit too cleanly and quickly.

All in all though, awesome episode. I agree with CPanther that moving the finding of Earth up to this episode was brilliant, as it made something that was going to be not at all surprising (we all knew they'd find Earth before the series ended) become very surprising.

I was thinking that the ruins they were standing in were the Temple of Aurora that Lee was looking at earlier in one of the scriptural texts?

As far as the images go, assuming they were trying to make it look like the debris of a known location with the bridge being a major landmark I don't think either Sydney or NYC fit the bill.

As far as Sydney goes, you can see in the photo (http://www.panoramio.com/photos/original/101203.jpg) that there is a large gap in buildings in the area behind the opera house. In the image on battlestar, there is another whole cluster of destroyed skyscrapers that is empty in our real world picture of Sydney.

As far as NYC goes, I think the picture posted above (http://www.panoramio.com/photos/original/101203.jpg) shows it all. From virtually the same angle of the bridge in the real NYC shot when looking under the bridge we clearly see land covered in buildings. Meanwhile, in the BSG image that whole are is just water and the end of the land mass is far to the left. True, thousands of years could change that, but if they're trying to make it look like a real world counterpart I wouldn't think they'd put that in there.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/imgcache/31483.imgcache

This finale really was genius though. As a series finale we'd all have been disappointed (no matter what they found on Earth), but by moving up what most thought would be the end of the series, they effectively were able to achieve surprise with something virtually everybody assumed would happen.


It is my understanding that episode #11, now the first episode of 4.5 was to be the series finale had the writers strike continue. Guess they could have made #10/11 into a two hour finale.

In Season 3 episode (either "The Eye of Jupiter" or "Rapture"), a delegation of Cylons lead by D'Anna claimed that they wanted to find the way to Earth because they'd decided that they want to live there too.

That doesn't really explain their motivation though. I mean they're Cylons. They dominate the entire region of space around Caprica. I'm sure there are plenty of inhabital planets they could settle on. And they made this decision before the Cylon 'Civil War'. So what was the reason for wanting to go to Earth? Was that explaination simply over looked by the writers? Or is that another question that remains to be answered in the final 10 eps? Plus, it strikes me as odd that Adama would let them tag along with them to Earth without also knowing their motive.

That doesn't really explain their motivation though. I mean they're Cylons. They dominate the entire region of space around Caprica. I'm sure there are plenty of inhabital planets they could settle on. And they made this decision before the Cylon 'Civil War'. So what was the reason for wanting to go to Earth? Was that explaination simply over looked by the writers? Or is that another question that remains to be answered in the final 10 eps? Plus, it strikes me as odd that Adama would let them tag along with them to Earth without also knowing their motive.

By the same token, why do the humans want to go to Earth so badly over other habitable planets? It's not any better hidden than, say, Kobol.

It has to do with the prophecies, spiritualism, yada yada.

Btw, what about the rest of the rebel cylons besides this one baseship? Are they still fighting in the cylon civil war? I would think that the sixes and eights and twos here would want to find them and bring them along to Earth as well...

By the same token, why do the humans want to go to Earth so badly over other habitable planets? It's not any better hidden than, say, Kobol.

It has to do with the prophecies, spiritualism, yada yada.

It's not the prophecies as much as the fact that the human race was cut from billions down to under 40K people. If there's a planet inhabited by humans out there, they have to try and get there.

By the same token, why do the humans want to go to Earth so badly over other habitable planets? It's not any better hidden than, say, Kobol.

It has to do with the prophecies, spiritualism, yada yada.

Well that's been addressed throughout the entire series. Joining up with the last remnants of the human race, etc. And until the last episode, it was hidden from all of them. But that still doesn't answer the questions as to why the Rebel Cylons want to settle there.

A couple of smaller things I noted during the episode that kind of got lost amongst the huge ending...

The Good: just laughed, then the whole time in the airlock he had this smirk on his face.
Tyrol was awesome in this episode. Did anyone else notice his reactions? When they came to arrest him and Anders he .
Not sure why he had a smirk, maybe just relief that its out, remember when he thought he was a Cylon. Tyrol is a good guy Cylon.

The scene when Diana first stepped aboard Galactica and all 4 were there was pretty awesome as well.
One of my favorite scenes, especially when she says that shes made contact with the four. How about Tori reaching out to Anders on the planet, and he just gives her the cold shoulder.
The ??:
-Am I the only one who finds it a bit unreasonable that they could, in an instant, decide to forget the past and strike a truce with a group that just killed billions (including many loved ones for almost every character), virtually enslaved them (New Caprica), and stabbed them in the back multiple times as recently as that same day? Oh nevermind though, we won't hold a grudge or anything, let's just be friends.
Well at that point it was Die or make up, they had nukes ready to destroy all Human ships, they could not jump, the Cylons could fire and jump instantly. They had no choice but to make up, or Humanity ends. It pissed me off they ejected a human out an air lock without retaliation, I think thats the message here retaliate and all die.

Kinda cool that Lee gave amnesty to the three, even though they committed no crime and are clearly not the same Cylon's as the base star types, I would like to see Tigh back as the xo, and the others back to their jobs, except Tori.

I was also kind of surprised that D'Anna was suddenly leader of the Cylons again. True, she held valuable information, but that all seemed to happen a bit too cleanly and quickly.Not a surprise to me shes the only one of her kind and very bossy, but yeah no time devoted to what went on in the base star about that.

What I found strange is that Baltar healed so quick, he had a ten inch+ cut several inches wide and he's up and around with a large ace bandage?

If the colonists search wide enough they may find remnants of humanity. For instance isolated U.S. Army units in an area formally known as Iraq.

doesnt look like the same bridge to me.

Btw, what about the rest of the rebel cylons besides this one baseship? Are they still fighting in the cylon civil war? I would think that the sixes and eights and twos here would want to find them and bring them along to Earth as well...

I was thinking that these are all that's left of the rebel Cylon models. They had been lured into a trap by the 1/4/5's and I believe the rest were killed.

And I really don't think that's NY, guys. Not sure about Sydney either. I do believe that's the ruins of the Temple of Aurora that they are standing around in. We need a screencap of the page in the book Lee was looking at to see if it bears any resemblance to any familiar cities.

I was thinking that these are all that's left of the rebel Cylon models. They had been lured into a trap by the 1/4/5's and I believe the rest were killed.

There are supposed to be millions upon millions of skinjobs walking around. Cavil's trap took out what, 3 baseships?

And yet... we never see the millions and millions of skinjobs. Maybe they're off keeping to themselves. Who knows? But it sure seems like the same 5 or 6 baseships have been following the fleet around since the beginning of the series.

I had another thought. What if they aren't on Earth? I mean at the end of season 3, we clearly see North America, Florida in particular. It appeared to be lush and green.

Since we don't know how fresh the destruction is, it is very possible that Cavil & Co snuck off and nuked the planet first. Perhaps it is their last FU in trade for losing the resurrection hub.

What if this planet is a test from the final cylon, to see if human and cylon can work together?

Perhaps instead of the Newhart ending we're getting the Asimov ending. Maybe the fifth is hiding out on the moon.

Well at that point it was Die or make up, they had nukes ready to destroy all Human ships, they could not jump, the Cylons could fire and jump instantly. They had no choice but to make up, or Humanity ends. It pissed me off they ejected a human out an air lock without retaliation, I think thats the message here retaliate and all die.

I'd extend this point a tiny bit further. In a fair fight, the Cylon baseships are no match for a battlestar. And, while the Cylons could have inflicted considerable damage on the civilian fleet, the fact is at the end of the equation Galactica would have survived the fight relatively unscathed, while the last of rebels would have been turned to dust, along with at least one, possibly two of the final five (if you believe that the fifth is on the basestar).

D'anna, I believe, is the very last of her line. All of them were boxed on the Hub. All but two of the Sharons would have bit it. All of the Leobens. All but one of the Sixes. That's a hell of a butcher's bill just to extract a modicum of revenge before dying. Even messianic D'Anna has her limits.

And yet... we never see the millions and millions of skinjobs. Maybe they're off keeping to themselves. Who knows? But it sure seems like the same 5 or 6 baseships have been following the fleet around since the beginning of the series.

Actually, the peak strength the Cylons brought to bear in the chase was ten baseships, at the beginning of the occupation of New Caprica. They lost a couple ships there. They also brought a similar number to the nebula, with no losses, except for a few ground troops, I believe.

Their next highest strength was at the algae planet, where they brought four. Although it is implied a significant loss was incurred at the Hub, no clear number is available from that fight.

They lost two baseships and a resurrection ship at the battle with Pegasus.

One assumes that since Pegasus survived to meet Galactica that it had to have knocked off a few basehips during the attack mentioned by Fisk.

Point being:

1. The rebel Cylons are all but gone. One ragged ship that makes BSGs early flight look like a pleasure cruise.

2. The orthodox Cylons, if any of them survived the attack on the hub, won't be in much better shape than the humans.

Oddly enough, the humans are closing in on having the upper hand.

The cylons also lost 3 or 4 basestars at New Caprica, and didn't they lose a couple more in the battle at the resurrection ship in season 2? Another lost to the cylon virus.

Point being, there were a lot more than 3 or 4 Cylon baseships making up their entire fleet. If there are millions of skinjobs, there should be at least hundreds (if not thousands) of basestars.

And yet... we never see the millions and millions of skinjobs. Maybe they're off keeping to themselves. Who knows? But it sure seems like the same 5 or 6 baseships have been following the fleet around since the beginning of the series.

They're on a budget, they can only feed so many, taking up resources fraking around the basestar, the others probably stay boxed. I think taking out the hub was a bigger deal than let on by Natalie.

Perhaps the Admiral is the final 5th, since he also was not with the fleet at the time Roslin and D'Anna were talking. And I agree that the ruins on Earth are the Temple of Aurora. I also found it interesting that there appeared to be no recognizable land forms on Earth from space.

The constellations match but I think and someone correct me if I am wrong, couldn't another planet say within 10 light years of Earth still have the constellations?
Depends on which constellations and stars are used. And the accuracy of the charts and what Gaeta considers a match. Sirius in Canis Major, the brightest star in the nighttime sky, is 8.6 light years away. You move off 5 light years, it's position in the sky Will change by quite a lot. BTW, Sirius has also moved over 1/2 degree across the sky (more than the diameter of the moon) since the time of Ptolemy. Alpha Centauri, the 3rd brightest star in the nighttime sky, is 4.4 light-years away, so it would also move rather significantly if you move off 5 light years.

But presumably they are using the constellations of the Zodiac. Some of which are pretty dim, but we can assume Gaeta is using a sophisticated fast star scan and correlate system. Many of the bright stars are 100s of light years away, so they won't change much with a 5 or 10 light year shift. The constellations will also change over many thousands of years, but I don't see the writers getting into that level of astronomical detail.

No, they have arrived at a bombed out Earth. There is a possibility that they have been lead to a false Earth with altered and incorrect star charts along the way and the ancient texts were falsified long ago. But I doubt if the writers are going in that direction.

What bugged me about episode is that they all went down to the planet without apparently sending down a scouting/advance party. Did they scan for satellites still in orbit from the bombed out civilization or for anything else in the solar system? And if the Geiger counter was still going off, the nuclear war could not have been that long ago. But they understandably went for the dramatic license effect of everyone standing around looking shocked at the ruins.

There were four baseships at the nebula. I counted them several times from the pan-out in Crossroads II over the year-plus we waited for Season 4.

I'm not saying there are only 5 or 6 baseships in existence. It just seems like there is only a limited number that are chasing them at one time. The rest of the Cylons? Yeah, maybe they were kept boxed. Maybe they have better things to do. Maybe they are only called in when needed.

Remember on New Caprica, the Cylons were bitching about their resources being stretched thin. They don't have thousands of baseships at their disposal. Or they would've guarded New Caprica a little better.

I poked around Google Earth trying to find a match for that metal dome without much luck.

It reminded me of the Hiroshima ruin.

Great episode, EJO really should be considered for an Emmy.
Assuming the remaining Cylons, the non-rebel 'orthodox' Cylons are just as beaten up as the rebel Cylons and the humans, I would think they could be brought into a truce with everyone else. During some of the earlier eps, when we met Anders and his little insurgency fight, it was apparent that some of the original homeworlds were in pretty good shape. I imagine some were in better shape then others. So, assuming they can all agree to get along somewhat, I assume they could just as well make a bunch of quick jumps and just go back to one of the homeworlds. Perhaps the Cylons pick one planet, the humans pick another, and just start over. With such a small number of people left, one decently intact city with all it's infrastructure would mean a pretty quick path to their former normal life, more or less.

Are the Cylons *all* mortal now? If they settle down back 'home' would they be able to set up the same structures of immortality again? If they are mortal then one could essentially consider the skin jobs to human. They are (somehow) made of flesh and blood, to the point where they can interbreed with humans. Throw in mortality and they might as well just human, with the exception of multiple copies existing.

Was anyone else on DTV missing the dialog when set to Dolby digital ? I had to switch over to all channel stereo.

BSG has won the award for Biggest, Brassiest Balls in All of Television Writing.

It takes a big pair to end mid-season with a reveal like this. They're pretty much promising they have something way cooler than Earth yet to write.

You think, in the last eleven episodes, including the S3 finale, they've unloaded a huge portion of the story. Obviously the four was a gigantic reveal. Baltar's acquittal was fairly big. The battle at the nebula was big. And finding a dead Earth was enormous, especially when done with ten episodes yet to go.

It's actually a smart move. Short of an Earth inhabited by highly evolved Cylon dinosaurs, there really wasn't all that much we were going to get out of Earth as a finale anyhow. It would have been a lame ending no matter what.

BTW, does anyone else think the promised bloodbath ain't gonna happen? There's barely enough Cylons left now to field a beer league team.

Remember on New Caprica, the Cylons were bitching about their resources being stretched thin. They don't have thousands of baseships at their disposal. Or they would've guarded New Caprica a little better.

If the Cylons had thousands of baseships, they wouldn't have conducted a sneak attack.

In the big scheme of the story, the Cylons have one, and only on clear military advantage: their jump technology is dramatically better than the Colonials. Beyond that, the Cylon Raiders suck in a close fight, and the baseships simply cannot stand up to a battlestar in a shooting match. Without the element of surprise, the Cylons aren't capable of beating the Colonials ever.

....eh, lets face it....the numbers aren't really adding up... unless you want to believe that the cylons had a million skinjobs on each bay ship.

Could the copies be inhabiting Caprica and the other Colonial homeworlds? We saw multiple copies landscaping with Centurions way back in season 2.

I'm not all that interested in religion and spirituality and series Sci Fi television isn't where I'd turn to study it if I were. I don't mind that being an aspect of BSG, but when it concentrates on it, it dissolves into tiresome ******** for me. It did that for a couple of episodes and consequently almost lost me as a viewer; I'm hoping that it doesn't do it again, though I'm really afraid that it might.
+1

It reminded me of the Hiroshima ruin.It's supposed to be NYC. Here's a comparison pic on the Brooklyn Bridge.
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/tv-hdtv-programming/261742-battlestar-galactica-season-4-a-22.html#post3389087

Cavil has spoken of there being "millions of Cylons". The Cylons existed somewhere for 40 years between the treaty and the attack--there was a designated area of "Cylon Space" with boundaries which mankind was not disallowed to cross by the treaty. Recall the episode "Hero", concerning Daniel Novacek (callsign "Bulldog"), a Colonial Warrior who crossed that line in a stealth ship on a recon mission and was captured and held by the Cylons for 8 or 9 years before apparently being allowed to escape; Adama irrationally blamed himself for precipitating the Cylon attack on humanity by carrying out that mission (in command of Battlestar Valkyrie), though he was only following orders.

In any case, there was a Cylon territory of space where they existed before attacking mankind. Why should we assume that the entire race mobilized itself to defeat the Colonies? They must have occupied worlds in their territory and we know that they moved into at least Caprica after they nuked it. I really doubt that any large portion of their number took off to pursue the fleet.

It's supposed to be NYC. Here's a comparison pic on the Brooklyn Bridge.
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/tv-hdtv-programming/261742-battlestar-galactica-season-4-a-22.html#post3389087That picture has been posted in this thread and I don't find it compelling. The opposing shoreline doesn't match as a land mass--it seems further away than the end of that bridge, and massive amounts of the shoreline are missing. If we're looking at Manhattan, a huge chunk of it was blown off.

Clearly, if they wanted us to know that it was Earth, there are a billion things that they could have done, which they didn't. They could have shown the world from space less covered in clouds, so that we could identify the shape of continents. They could have left recognizable structures partially standing. I really don't think that it is our Earth, and until one of the principles of the show say that it is, I'm not going to believe that.

If they wanted to show us it was Earth, I say don't fear the cliche; embrace the cliche! Show us the ultra cliche holy-s### it's Earth!! scene with a broken down Statue of Liberty. Yes, we would all groan a little, but admit it, that shot is always money in the bank :D

The base of the towers look nothing like the Brooklyn bridge, they do look like the Sidney bridge.

If they wanted to show us it was Earth, I say don't fear the cliche; embrace the cliche! Show us the ultra cliche holy-s### it's Earth!! scene with a broken down Statue of Liberty. Yes, we would all groan a little, but admit it, that shot is always money in the bank :DThey didn't have to embrace the cliche to get the job done--it could have been clearly recognizable bits of the Eiffel Tower lying on its side, chunks of the Sydney Opera House, the Space Needle, stubs of the Gateway Arch, the toppled, rusting London Eye, that giant statue of Jesus over Rio de Janeiro, etc, etc, etc. There are endless large monuments around the globe--why leave people clutchng at straws? I don't believe that it's our Earth.

At the screening of "Revelations" that took place in the middle of last week, RDM said it was NYC. It's New York, people. Get over it and move on.

The Good:
Tyrol was awesome in this episode. Did anyone else notice his reactions? When they came to arrest him and Anders he just laughed, then the whole time in the airlock he had this smirk on his face. Even on the destroyed Earth at the end he was laughing. The scene when Diana first stepped aboard Galactica and all 4 were there was pretty awesome as well.

+1

The ??:
-Am I the only one who finds it a bit unreasonable that they could, in an instant, decide to forget the past and strike a truce with a group that just killed billions (including many loved ones for almost every character), virtually enslaved them (New Caprica), and stabbed them in the back multiple times as recently as that same day? Oh nevermind though, we won't hold a grudge or anything, let's just be friends.
-It seemed like (even before Tigh revealed himself to Adama) Adama was deferring every major decision to the president (Lee). Adama's been making (or at least at the head of the decision) these calls for the entire 4+ year run of the series. All of the sudden, someone else does it?
-I was also kind of surprised that D'Anna was suddenly leader of the Cylons again. True, she held valuable information, but that all seemed to happen a bit too cleanly and quickly.

+3 There are many character metamorphises that occur too quickly. I feel that the writers of BSG typically sacrifice most anything to achieve a dramatic scene but the limited # of episodes left also contributes to this.

All in all though, awesome episode. I agree with CPanther that moving the finding of Earth up to this episode was brilliant, as it made something that was going to be not at all surprising (we all knew they'd find Earth before the series ended) become very surprising.


I'm glad they arrived at Earth. It is brilliant. Makes the final episodes that much more intriguing.

Great episode. I was wondering though, if the humans and Cylons arenow allies why can't they go back to their original colonies? I'm sure there's some radiation in the cities that were nuked, but from what we've seen so far it doesn't look like they are completely uninhabitable.

Also, from orbit Earth sure looked pretty inviting (plenty of green to be seen) but once they reached the surface it looked like a wasteland. Is the whole planet radioactive or can they just move to a safer part (like South America).

Questions for the second half of the season I guess. I still dug it mightily.;)

Just watched the ep this am.

1) Couple thoughts...all this spoiler stuff geez..

2) I was falling for the 5th cylon being the ship for a while

3) Oh yeah WOW, thank gods for some actually good TV. Tigh is awesome, I loved the suspense. One thing I didn't get, was why Tighe couldn't just refuse to go, It has been intimated that the final 5 have the last say, why didn't he just say "I'm Staying", of course threatening/suggesting to put himself out the airlock was much more in character.

At the screening of "Revelations" that took place in the middle of last week, RDM said it was NYC. It's New York, people. Get over it and move on.OK--good enough for me, though I was hoping that it wasn't our Earth.

Since the soil is still radioactive, it's only been a couple of decades since the global conflict which caused the devastation. Sad, that they missed us by so little.

At the screening of "Revelations" that took place in the middle of last week, RDM said it was NYC. It's New York, people. Get over it and move on.

Please provide a link or some proof of this. I have listened to the entire Q&A session and he didn't say it then. Did he say this to the press outside the theater?

The mod over at TWOP was told in no uncertain terms by an insider that it is not NYC. He is not the type to make something like that up.

RDM has said several times that they would find "a place we'll call Earth". That could mean that it's Earth but it's not an Earth we'll recognize. Or it's what the humans/Cylons think is Earth, but isn't.

Rumor: The series finale of BSG will be three hours long!!

http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2008/06/battlestars-fin.html

Since the soil is still radioactive, it's only been a couple of decades since the global conflict which caused the devastation. Sad, that they missed us by so little.

Hard to believe that after thousands of years, the close timing of the Caprica and Earth Apocalypses (Apocalypsi ? ;) ) don't have some connection.

This is a let down for me. I would of like them to arrive sometime after the launch of Enterprise on it's second 5 year mission under the command of James T Kirk. :D

Seriously though seems like a waste of a series to drag it out so long only to find a dead rock.

that giant statue of Jesus over Rio de Janeiro

The statue is called Cristo Redentor (Christ the Redeemer). It's one of those works of art like Dali's melting watches (The Persistence of Memory): no one ever remembers the name.

Hard to believe that after thousands of years, the close timing of the Caprica and Earth Apocalypses (Apocalypsi ? ;) ) don't have some connection.

Apocalypse is a Greek root, not a Latin. Therefore it would be subject, if you obey those rules, to the -es and -oi suffixes, not the i. It is actually a common mistake to convert Greek words into quasi-Latin words. The classic example is "octopi". Since it is actually Greek, the word octopus pluralizes into octopudes.

That said, accepted English grammar in 2008 only requires Latinization in scientific terms and math. Don't ask me why we observe the math part, because if anything those should be treated in Arabic.

Point being: apocalypses is an acceptable usage.

Additional small note: Apocalypse is the Greek word for Revelation. The strong relationship between Greek and Hebrew scholarship in the ancient world is where we pick up the double meaning in the New Testament. The proper name of the last book of the Bible is "The Apocalypse of John".

I think the double meaning works well in the episode's title, since obviously the big reveal at the end of the Bible is the apocalypse.

That doesn't really explain their motivation though. I mean they're Cylons. They dominate the entire region of space around Caprica. I'm sure there are plenty of inhabital planets they could settle on. And they made this decision before the Cylon 'Civil War'. So what was the reason for wanting to go to Earth? Was that explaination simply over looked by the writers? Or is that another question that remains to be answered in the final 10 eps? Plus, it strikes me as odd that Adama would let them tag along with them to Earth without also knowing their motive.

The Cylons want a "new beginning" on a new world, possibly with humans who have no "history" with them. There's also the possibility that something in them is "telling" them to go to Earth, kind of like what's going on with the Four. This, of course, applies primarily to the ones, fours, and fives.

The twos, sixes, and eights have entirely different motives altogether. They want to be with the Five and want to be human, or close to it. D'anna, however, seems to have motives all her own.

OK, so if Earth is a burnt out cinder, who sent the Colonial distress signal to Starbuck's viper?

The obvious answer that it is an automated signal, as would be the music that turned on the 4 Cylons. Where that is located should be interesting. Perhaps they will find a hatch in the ground, which will lead to:

A)someone punching in the numbers 4 8 15 16 23 42
B)an underground civilization that is waiting in bomb shelters for the radiation levels to go down
C)former residents of Jericho
D)something else equally unlikely

^ A-D = hilarious

OK, so if Earth is a burnt out cinder, who sent the Colonial distress signal to Starbuck's viper?

The obvious answer that it is an automated signal, as would be the music that turned on the 4 Cylons. Where that is located should be interesting. Perhaps they will find a hatch in the ground, which will lead to:

A)someone punching in the numbers 4 8 15 16 23 42
B)an underground civilization that is waiting in bomb shelters for the radiation levels to go down
C)former residents of Jericho
D)something else equally unlikely

I'm guessing it was Starbuck's old Viper.

Cavil has spoken of there being "millions of Cylons". The Cylons existed somewhere for 40 years between the treaty and the attack--there was a designated area of "Cylon Space" with boundaries which mankind was not disallowed to cross by the treaty. ... In any case, there was a Cylon territory of space where they existed before attacking mankind. Why should we assume that the entire race mobilized itself to defeat the Colonies? They must have occupied worlds in their territory and we know that they moved into at least Caprica after they nuked it. I really doubt that any large portion of their number took off to pursue the fleet.Great episode. I was wondering though, if the humans and Cylons arenow allies why can't they go back to their original colonies? I'm sure there's some radiation in the cities that were nuked, but from what we've seen so far it doesn't look like they are completely uninhabitable. ...I wonder what happened during the 2,6,8 vs. 1,4,5 'civil-war' in the Colonies, or in the [Cylon Territory(ies)]? Could still be a lot of ground fighting occurring. The resurrection rooms would have been key terrain. Accusations of "spawn camping"? Was the 'Telempathic Inhibitor' a physical device which must be removed in a [lab/clean-room]? Or could a 2/6/8 remove one and that Centurion begins additional removals (exponentially)? How did the demonstrated early in the series handle the schism? I know it was only a [story device] and seemed to be merrily abandoned later, but they could have used handhelds or [bluetooth earpieces] just as easily...OK, so if Earth is a burnt out cinder, who sent the Colonial distress signal to Starbuck's viper?

The obvious answer that it is an automated signal, as would be the music that turned on the 4 Cylons. Where that is located should be interesting. Perhaps they will find a hatch in the ground, which will lead to:

A)someone punching in the numbers 4 8 15 16 23 42
B)an underground civilization that is waiting in bomb shelters for the radiation levels to go down
C)former residents of [I]Jericho
D)something else equally unlikelyMaybe it was someone's TV (http://www.gazettetimes.com/articles/2004/10/17/news/top_story/gtsun01.txt)

I did think that Starbuck spoke of [green plants and water] in her debriefing, not irradiated dirt.

v/r,
C-F

I'm guessing it was Starbuck's old Viper.

Hmmmmm. Now there's a thought.

I did think that Starbuck spoke of [green plants and water] in her debriefing, not irradiated dirt.

v/r,
C-F

Not that I remember it that well, but I do believe Starbuck was quite excited about finding Earth and not aware of its condition. Depends on what her, "I've been to Earth" comment meant.

Accusations of "spawn camping"?

That's funny.

Wonder if even the Cylons would whine endlessly about that. :)

Please provide a link or some proof of this. I have listened to the entire Q&A session and he didn't say it then. Did he say this to the press outside the theater?

The mod over at TWOP was told in no uncertain terms by an insider that it is not NYC. He is not the type to make something like that up.

RDM has said several times that they would find "a place we'll call Earth". That could mean that it's Earth but it's not an Earth we'll recognize. Or it's what the humans/Cylons think is Earth, but isn't.

This is where I got it:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/3389064-post644.html

Where did you hear the Q&A session?

This is where I got it:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/3389064-post644.html

Where did you hear the Q&A session?

Thank you, DavidF. I wonder where that guy got the info? I've read a bunch of recaps of that event, and no one else mentions that bit of information.

You can watch the Q&A on YouTube. There are eight parts. Here's part one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNWrbf1m2rE

If you click "More from daphnesadventures" to the right, you get the links to rest of the videos.

That's funny.

Wonder if even the Cylons would whine endlessly about that. :)

Or lag :-)

Some screenshots.:)
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/826065/1024/BSG/snapshot20080615175759.png (http://www.picturepush.com/public/826065)
Hmmm. Old car/truck frame.

http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/826066/1024/BSG/snapshot20080615175930.png (http://www.picturepush.com/public/826066)
Tyrols rather priceless reaction to frakked up Earth.

http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/826067/1024/BSG/snapshot20080615200152.png (http://www.picturepush.com/public/826067)
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/826068/1024/BSG/snapshot20080615200809.png (http://www.picturepush.com/public/826068)

I never liked Tory and now I positively hate her!

She's all full of her Cylon-Final-5 self now, I know! ;)

It's supposed to be NYC. Here's a comparison pic on the Brooklyn Bridge.

I didn't say it *was* Hiroshima, just that the ruined dome *reminded* me of the "survivor" building in Hiroshima.

Will they be showing this season on UHD any time soon?

Obviously whoever was on earth was part of a nuclear battle, either from outside forces or by others already there. The Viper that was originally from earth received the distress signal and showed the way to earth, because whoever was there needed help. We know that the final 4 have been to earth before, and so again, they were likely being called back by the distress signal as well.

So the question is, who was on earth, and why is it jacked up?

YOu know, I am not much on this sci-fi business although I am a casual viewer of this show, that said, Earth is a big planet so maybe there are parts of it that are not burnt out?

Is that really earth?

We are all assuming that view is from Jersey (in which case, thats how Jersey looks....I kid), but like soemone pointed out, they were real squirrely on showing any sort of planet geography when they showed the planet from space, so in a show that likes its plot twists, I would say its quite possible everything is not what we think it is, or assume it is.

Season 4 is not airing on UHD until 2009.

YOu know, I am not much on this sci-fi business although I am a casual viewer of this show, that said, Earth is a big planet so maybe there are parts of it that are not burnt out?

Is that really earth?

We are all assuming that view is from Jersey (in which case, thats how Jersey looks....I kid), but like soemone pointed out, they were real squirrely on showing any sort of planet geography when they showed the planet from space, so in a show that likes its plot twists, I would say its quite possible everything is not what we think it is, or assume it is.

I am so totally NOT assuming that.

Nor am I assuming it's the Brooklyn Bridge as so many are guessing. That bridge is a suspension bridge, is it not? A suspension bridge that had collapsed wouldn't still be partially hanging there in mid-air with no support.

I am so totally NOT assuming that.

Nor am I assuming it's the Brooklyn Bridge as so many are guessing. That bridge is a suspension bridge, is it not? A suspension bridge that had collapsed wouldn't still be partially hanging there in mid-air with no support.

True, it requires a suspension of disbelief. ;)

Not to mention the fact that the shoreline was on the left, now if that was lower Manhatten, view from the Jersey side, there would be no ocean to the left, actually come to think of it, there would be no ocean on either side....just more burnt out rock.

I have a feeling this is a red herring, to make us all believe thats earth.

True, it requires a suspension of disbelief. ;)

:D Classic!

I'm not sold that it's Earth either. I don't remember any shots that clearly identified and land masses. There's still 11 to 13 episodes to burn.

Could it possibly be just a stepping stone?

I'm accepting it as presented, that it is Earth. Now, as to what time period it is, that's another question.

If we accept that Kobol was the homeworld of the human race, and that the "lost" 13th tribe who followed a single jealous god colonized Earth, it doesn't necessarily anchor us into a time period.

My assumption is that that event happened many centuries ago. I wonder if, at some point in its history, the humans created robots which eventually became what is now the Cylons. Then, just as happened with the 12 colonies who also created Cylons, a war erupted, leaving the Earth in the state it is currently in.

So, a rag tag fleet of humans then abandon Earth in search of a mythical planet called Kobol which in legend was the birthplace of humanity...or maybe a mythical place called Caprica. Maybe the fleeted is lead by Admiral Eva who is in command of the Battlestar Beentheredonethat.

Not to mention the fact that the shoreline was on the left, now if that was lower Manhatten, view from the Jersey side, there would be no ocean to the left, actually come to think of it, there would be no ocean on either side....just more burnt out rock.

I have a feeling this is a red herring, to make us all believe thats earth.I don't buy it either, and I don't buy the "I read some poster in another forum saying that RDM said that it's Manhattan" either. I'll accept it if RDM (or some other one of the principals) says it in his official blog at some point.

Just finished watching it last night. What an ending:):):)

i do have some issues. i really hope it is not "our" earth but an earth like Caprica that was the 13th colony that made it too earth. I dont think there should be a need to show NYC, NJ, Australia unlike the 1980s BSG. This "earth" should be based on the 13th colonly similar to original Caprica.

I never liked the spiritual focus in the last 2 seasons especially the hallucinations, opera house, etc. I do agree that hard choices had to be made which would have some find/change their religion and good story lines were made from it.

since this is not the real ending, i hope they close it out explaining everything (5th cylon, what happened to earth, what makes the 5 cylons so special). I think its great the story showed the cylons questioning what they did to the humans and possibly seek redemption.

when is the final episode coming back??

Just finished watching it last night. What an ending:):):)

i do have some issues. i really hope it is not "our" earth but an earth like Caprica that was the 13th colony that made it too earth. I dont think there should be a need to show NYC, NJ, Australia unlike the 1980s BSG. This "earth" should be based on the 13th colonly similar to original Caprica.

I never liked the spiritual focus in the last 2 seasons especially the hallucinations, opera house, etc. I do agree that hard choices had to be made which would have some find/change their religion and good story lines were made from it.

since this is not the real ending, i hope they close it out explaining everything (5th cylon, what happened to earth, what makes the 5 cylons so special). I think its great the story showed the cylons questioning what they did to the humans and possibly seek redemption.

when is the final episode coming back??

Sometime in early 2009 is the best guess so far.

What if "Earth" was populated by billions of Final 5 cylons and was destroyed in an unprovoked human surprise attack? ;)

OK, so if Earth is a burnt out cinder, who sent the Colonial distress signal to Starbuck's viper?

The obvious answer that it is an automated signal, as would be the music that turned on the 4 Cylons. Where that is located should be interesting. Perhaps they will find a hatch in the ground, which will lead to:

A)someone punching in the numbers 4 8 15 16 23 42
B)an underground civilization that is waiting in bomb shelters for the radiation levels to go down
C)former residents of Jericho
D)something else equally unlikely

E) John Locke "moved" Earth...this is just a decoy:D

We are all assuming that view is from Jersey (in which case, thats how Jersey looks....I kid)
I don't think anyone is assuming that. If that is the Brooklyn Bridge, then they are standing in Brooklyn, naturally. NJ wouldn't be anywhere in that shot.

If they were in New Jersey, they would have been picking up medical waste, not irradiated soil. :D

If they were in New Jersey, they would have been picking up medical waste, not irradiated soil. :D

Yeah I could see Adama picking up a hand full of dirt, and a needle sticking through his thumb, ouch!

Didn't the "dying leader" prophecy that Laura was always quoting say the "dying leader" (assuming that's her) would not survive the journey to Earth? So maybe this isn't Earth...?

Didn't the "dying leader" prophecy that Laura was always quoting say the "dying leader" (assuming that's her) would not survive the journey to Earth? So maybe this isn't Earth...?

The prophecy didn't say "Earth" - it said "promised land". So, evidently Earth isn't the promised land. They interpreted it wrong.

http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2008/06/battlestar-ga-1.html#more

Someone needs to analyze the Temple of Aurora drawing at the beginning of the episode with the landing site. Someone else said it was Tokyo. That's the Odaiba bridge you're seeing. You can see the ruin of the Hiroshima Peace Memorial next to it too.

They showed a green Earth at the end of season 3? I don't remember that.

I don't see how that could match up with Tokyo. If so, it certainly wouldn't be the Hiroshima Dome, which oddly enough, is in Hiroshima, not Tokyo.

Also the dome doesn't match the size (too small a radius) or the construction of the dome in Hiroshima.

My assumption is that that event happened many centuries ago. I wonder if, at some point in its history, the humans created robots which eventually became what is now the Cylons. Then, just as happened with the 12 colonies who also created Cylons, a war erupted, leaving the Earth in the state it is currently in.
Interesting. This has always been my theory as to the background of BSG, more because of RDM's sensibilities than anything else. Much of this series seems to have been premised primarily to reflect RDM's strong moral beliefs, e.g. anti-war, environmental issues, the haves and have-nots, etc.

My take has pretty much been that on some planet (let's call it 'Generic Earth' for the hell of it) wars escalated and continued to take place between different nations. Realizing the futility of the traditional approaches, the warring nations, in what they believed to be an act of civility, determined to decrease or eliminate the savagery and body count, through the use of artificial life, robotic, cyborg , whatever, manner of soldiers and weapons with a definable 'body count', a game of chess so to speak, without the total destruction of some form of humanity.

The problem was that this artificial life eventually developed artifical thought and reasoning, and thereby recognized that they had become nothing more than the tools of humanity, who treated them as sacrificial lambs to replace the human bloodshed. And at a certain point after the humans created artificial life, the robots, now capable of building and improving their own to appear most humanlike, rebelled against humanity.

Problem was, they had learned too many bad lessons from humanity, and so, two or more sides arose among the robots themselves, which adopted and continued the terrible mistakes of mankind. Eventually, artificial life forms began to supplant humanity entirely, in their continuing pusuit of winning the 'chess match' pursuant to their original programming. 'Sins of the father' and all that. But at some point, due to whatever causation may have been responsible, the artificial life realized that they had certain inherent limitations, and actually needed qualities which the humans once had, in order to continue their own evolution. And so, a cycle developed by which the machines and humans continued to create and destroy each other, depending upon which side of the pendulum swing they were currently on.

_____________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

At the screening of "Revelations" that took place in the middle of last week, RDM said it was NYC. It's New York, people. Get over it and move on.


Hasn't he misled us before to throw people off?

Who else thinks that Six is hawt?

Seriously, good for Tigh. That guy deserves some happiness in his life.

;)

We don't know if it is New York or earth for that matter.

All we know is that they think its earth.

We don't know if it is New York or earth for that matter.

All we know is that they think its earth.
Why should we even care? Again the only really relevant issue here was that it allowed RDM to once again pursue his personal agenda, and focus upon those issues that he wishes to impress upon his audience. First, Kat got the radioactive treatment, now its a whole planet. Next stop? The radioactive multiverse?? ;)

_________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Humans were extinct long ago. They are all cylons.

Radioactive, multiverse inhabiting, planet colonizing frakin' Cylons.

Olmos will win an Emmy for his grief scene when he realizes it's true.

:)

I'm still pissed because they haven't yet worked in "By your command."

I'm still pissed because they haven't yet worked in "By your command."


Apparantly they have:

Re-imagined Series usage

* "By your command" spoken by a Number Six humanoid Cylon: listen (listen • help • info)

In the Re-imagined Series, the phrase has been said twice by copies of Number Six, once to a copy of Sharon Valerii in response to finding the escaped Fleet of refugee survivors of the genocidal Cylon attack on the Colonies (Miniseries), and again (barely audible) in the episode "Colonial Day".

Since these Cylons appear to run their fleet by consensus, the use of "By your command" may be less of a command acknowledgment. The use of the phrase may be more analogous to the Colonial affirmation "So say we all", particularly in light of these Cylons' practice of a monotheistic religion, complete with commandments.

The catchphrase is also used in "Razor" by old model Cylons attacking Pegasus. These old model Cylons belong to a group of Centurions known as "Guardians" who escaped being scrapped when the model was phased out.

http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/By_your_command

Well that's great news. Now I can move on to more important things to be pissed about.

Many thanks!

Maybe they just found something along the lines of a trio of super-Earths (http://esciencenews.com/articles/2008/06/16/a.trio.super.earths)...

Hasn't he misled us before to throw people off?

Well, now, this appears not to be true. Sorry. The guy sounded like he had heard it first-hand.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/3389990-post665.html