The usage was correct.

I thought the same thing, Rutgar, but figured it would be too nerdy to go there. It's a common expression used by many people who don't have a clue about physics.

Yeah, I guess it is a bit nerdy. :p

Some simple examples to clear up any confusion:

The further out you look into space, the further back you go into time.

Two objects can't occupy the same space at the same time - based on the Pauli exclusion principle.

Real World example: If you're going to have a meeting with someone, you both have to meet at the same place, at the same time. Otherwise... no meeting.

Last year you could have seen further back in time than ever before. There's a story at the American Institute of Physics website (http://www.aip.org/pnu/2008/split/873-1.html) that talks about a rare gamma ray burst that occurred 7 billion light years away and was visible for 40 seconds with the naked eye. In contrast, the furthest object normally visible with the naked eye is the Andromeda galaxy, about 2.5 million ly away.

Here's a neat BSG tie-in: the date was March 19, 2008. That was the night cast members appeared on the Late Show with David Letterman to read the Top Ten reasons to watch (http://lateshow.cbs.com/latenight/lateshow/top_ten/index/php/20080319.phtml) the 4th season of BSG.

Not sure if this has been discussed, but I don't like the revisionist nature of last night's ep.

I'm of course referring to the revelation that Chief/Callie's baby is not half-cylon. It feels like they simply wanted to de-emphasize that kid, so they went ahead and well after the fact said he isn't cylon.

It's one thing if that would have come out soon after we found the Chief was a cylon, but now it just feels like we are being frakked with by the producers. I'm not a fan of these kind of stunts, because it's pretty obvious that they decided to make this change recently (probably because there were too many things to tie up in these final episodes).

I mean, it's fun to go back and watch old eps with Ellen and think "hey, she really is a cylon."

But it's not fun to go back to merely season "4.0" and watch the hoopla over a baby who the producers well after the fact decided to de-emphasize in a cheap stunt.

I mean, it's fun to go back and watch old eps with Ellen and think "hey, she really is a cylon."
The thing is, though, with all the early episodes not even the writers had Ellen picked for a cylon. So there are no clues to go back and look for. The same goes for the other 4. There's no doubt that, under a big-picture umbrella plot arc, they've been making it up as they go along. Which goes back to my dislike for the way they arrived at exactly who would be the final five. It was just a minor detail for them to deal with when the time came.

I mean, it's fun to go back and watch old eps with Ellen and think "hey, she really is a cylon."



For me, Ellen being the final Cylon is extremely anti-climatic. Which makes me think it's really a misdirection.

Baltar just seemed to be the first choice.

I was waiting for Gaeta and Starbuck to go at it.

I think Baltar not Tigh is the father of that six's kid!

Gaeta! What a little bitch. I really hate that guy, I cant believe they don't see the wheels turning on his plot, meeting with the vice president and no one knows? its a military vessel, they should know who's seeing who in the brig.

I agree about Gaeta, funny how they reveal the homosexuality right before this. And no cameras or mics in the brig while planning mutiny or treason? The writers blew it on that. Who woulda thunk that it would be the one legged guy to bring down the fleet.

For me, Ellen being the final Cylon is extremely anti-climatic. Which makes me think it's really a misdirection.Okay--you enjoy thinkin' that. How anticlimactic is it going to be when you find out that it's not a misdirection :)? Either all of the "Penultimate Four's" flashbacks on Earth were utter BS, or Ellen was on Earth with Tigh in his past life and therefore was a Cylon.

I think Baltar not Tigh is the father of that six's kid!

Maybe, but I just can't see them going to the "baby daddy misdirection" well again, especially within just a few episodes.

I think Baltar not Tigh is the father of that six's kid!

Hmm, I guess RDM's gonna be a little peeved once he hears how you saw through his misdirection. Then again, you never caught on to the fact that Gaeta is the kid's father, so I guess its no harm, no foul. :rolleyes:

______________________________________________

Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

I don't know, but I STILL think it's going to come out that they're ALL related... that there's some "recessive gene" in ALL HUMANKIND that can somehow be "switched on" to make ANYONE a "Cylon" and that EVERYONE essentially came from that devastated "Earth."

Perhaps only the people who come out as EXACT GENETIC DUPLICATES of their former Earth selves WILL be "switched on" when the time comes for that, and that's what happened during this generation? Some of them were "switched on" KNOWINGLY and went to begin a Secret Cylon campaign? Others continued to live as humans until the fleet hit that Nebula? There really ARE so many ways this can be written, and like everyone else, I'm just grasping at straws, here (and Palladin, I was keeping to my promise to Michael by staying away until "the plot thickened" on this first season, so I'd be sure to stay ON TOPIC, no "combination change required," lol). :p

As to your reply to me, Ph8te, I hope you aren't implying that I'm someone who comes around only occasionally and only to complain about the show, because as far as I can remember, my gripes about the BAD SCIENCE on Earth were the ONLY complaints I've EVER lodged. They could have easily gotten around that by simply having done a bit of archeological digging and found some of those things, but I guess it was "in the script." They NEEDED Anders to find that guitar neck to remember. Maybe it was made of something that WILL last the ages. As for being on the surface, since they were near the seashore, it's possible continual wave action would have kept them from remaining covered, so I'll even give them a break on that. Again, this IS Sci-Fi/Fantasy (yes, these days we never CAN tell when we're venturing into the "fantasy" realm, and frankly I DON'T mind)...

And I DO agree that the writing, the characters, character development, conflicts and politics ARE much of the best parts of the show... showing how a society would survive under such circumstances. That was what a lot of non-Sci-Fi fans never GOT about Star Trek, what that so much of it was a "morality play," to show how Humankind had evolved to deal with human issues in BETTER ways in a universe in which we realized we weren't alone, and then also to show the moral diliemmas we sometimes still faced when confronting issues for which we had no "moral compass."

I, too, think Gaeta is "an angry weenie," but given what he's been through -- PARTICULARLY on the Webseries "Face of the Enemy," he REALLY has good reason to be one. After what he came to realize about Sharon on that ship, he has VERY GOOD reason to trust NONE of the allied Cylons, even if that particular one was the ONLY one with those sorts of motivations. Once a person has been driven to paranoia (and he has), it's practically impossible to reverse that course.

I STILL have "issues" with there being no audiovisual surveillance in Jarek's cell, but then I have those SAME sort of issues with similar lacks of foresight and simple COMMON SENSE every week on other shows like "24," where they do completely IDIOTIC things just to allow the STORY an opportunity to move forward (how many times has Jack Bauer been clinically DEAD and/or SERIOUSLY INJURED to the point he should recover only with LASTING CONSEQUENCES, and yet here he is, still going at 110%??? -- and "24" is just a CONVENIENT example), and I just suppress the urge to grow an ulcer and let it go, as I will this time, too.

At any rate, whether this week's episode was "a bottle episode," or not, next week's looks to be a rather explosive one, and I can't wait!
Jeff

A PLOT HOLE to me, is NOT have continual audio-visual monitoring in a prison cell holding a V.P. suspected of Treason, among other things -- especially when he has a visitor who has already shown OBVIOUS CONTEMPT for the orders of the very Admiral who had him arrested.

And no cameras or mics in the brig while planning mutiny or treason? The writers blew it on that. Who woulda thunk that it would be the one legged guy to bring down the fleet.

It's obvious Gaeta has "enough" members of Galactica's crew on the good ship Mutiny, so it isn't hard to believe that even if they had a camera in the room, those people monitoring could be on their side (they even had a close-up of the marine to emphasize the point). Or they could at least get some of their own people in the monitoring room through a shift change or whatever. BSG is a show that has never believed in showing inconsequential little things like that.

She's a dog
As I said before...wut?


EDIT: Not sure how this was a bottle episode (it wasn't a filler episode either).

Two objects can't occupy the same space at the same time - based on the Pauli exclusion principle.

u can in a time warp.

Gaeta! What a little bitch. I really hate that guy, I cant believe they don't see the wheels turning on his plot, meeting with the vice president and no one knows? its a military vessel, they should know who's seeing who in the brig.

Seems like Bill is doing the presidents pain pills. And Baltar is turning on God?
They're stirring the pot now.

Wasn't it apparent that the guard was sympathetic to Gaeta's cause?

Love how Zaracks just wants to watch the world burn, as long as he has his time in the sun. Felt like they put a little Blagojevich and Joker into him.

Olmos has some pretty good one liners in this one too.

Didn't think this was a bottle episode... it was a very big setup episode though.

Wasn't it apparent that the guard was sympathetic to Gaeta's cause?.
Yes it was pretty obvious. :rolleyes: One guard? Thats not all the security on an air craft carrier equivalent vessel, Its obvious that his little mutiny goes deeper than just a few in the ranks, especially after seeing next weeks previews.

I agree with Jeff hays that they may all end up related somehow, looks to me like the whole cylon Human thing is older than 4k years.

Actually, it's a measure of both. You can't separate time and space. They're 2 halfs of the same whole.

A light year is a measure of distance not time. I think you know that but your post made it seem you do not.

And obviously you're not familiar with the common idiomatic usage of the phrase "light years ahead" as meaning "vastly ahead" or "far, far ahead", having nothing to do with either time or space :rolleyes: (see this (http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/light+years+ahead.html) or just google it).

The usage was correct.

I thought the same thing, Rutgar, but figured it would be too nerdy to go there. It's a common expression used by many people who don't have a clue about physics.

Yeah, I guess it is a bit nerdy. :p

Some simple examples to clear up any confusion:

The further out you look into space, the further back you go into time.

Two objects can't occupy the same space at the same time - based on the Pauli exclusion principle.

Real World example: If you're going to have a meeting with someone, you both have to meet at the same place, at the same time. Otherwise... no meeting.

Argee,

Yes I AM aware of the fact that a light year is a measure of distance. I was just using the common phrase that many are aware of (even if it isnt correctly used). Michaelscott is correct in what I was trying to get across in the phrase I used. Geesh youd figure that if I am watching a Sci FI show Id know the "basics" ;) :p....

Maureen Ryan interview with Moore on this episode: http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/01/battlestar-galactica-ron-moore-disquiet-follows-my-soul.html

Does that meant that Cally cheated on the Chief? Were they together when she had her fling with Hot Dog?

I think Cottle says [the child was conceived] before they got married. I think she had some kind of relationship with Hot Dog, before she and Chief got married. But that all kind of falls into that missing year of time in between the end of Season 2 and the beginning of Season 3.

That missing year may come in handy again.

Yes it was pretty obvious. :rolleyes: One guard? Thats not all the security on an air craft carrier equivalent vessel, Its obvious that his little mutiny goes deeper than just a few in the ranks, especially after seeing next weeks previews.

I agree with Jeff hays that they may all end up related somehow, looks to me like the whole cylon Human thing is older than 4k years.

Well youd figure people would get the clue after having a room full of "personel" and saying "lets talk" (or something like that). Then with the gaurd looking at Gaeta and the looking around as if he is on "lookout".

Yes I AM aware of the fact that a light year is a measure of distance. I was just using the common phrase that many are aware of (even if it isnt correctly used). Michaelscott is correct in what I was trying to get across in the phrase I used.
You absolutely used it correctly. My second sentence was telling Rutgar, after his space-time explanation, that most people probably wouldn't understand that explanation, not that you didn't understand it. Sorry for the ambiguity. The only mistake was made by Agree.

With all these touchy tete a tetes about just WHAT a light-year IS and WHO knows what about physics and cosmology, I'm just WAITING until somebody starts an argument about M theory and the viability of the 11-dimensional universe required to exist for the super-string theory to explain and combine quantum physics with macro physics, etc. :p

Let's just go back to talking about THE SHOW, huh?

Just clearing up a misunderstanding. There are no "touchy tete a tetes" around that I can see.

There have been only sporadic bursts of posts in the last 24 hours so it's not like a major distraction from the conversation. There are always the Battlestar Forums if you feel your pet theory isn't getting enough attention here.

The question is now about Deanna #3, Did she stay behind on Earth?

The question is now about Deanna #3, Did she stay behind on Earth?Who knows? Maybe she did, maybe she didn't.

They skipped over a lot between the last 2 episodes. I would have liked to have seen the reactions when Tigh announced his discovery of Ellen being the 5th. I would have loved to see their faces when he told them. Instead we got more Baltar mumbo jumbo. If any of the story is "filler", those scenes are it.

Wasn't it apparent that the guard was sympathetic to Gaeta's cause?

Love how Zaracks just wants to watch the world burn, as long as he has his time in the sun. Felt like they put a little Blagojevich and Joker into him.

Olmos has some pretty good one liners in this one too.


If you go back and watch again, you'll see that the guard was there in the officer's mess when Gaeta hatched his plot. He was sitting next to the door.

Who knows? Maybe she did, maybe she didn't.

They skipped over a lot between the last 2 episodes. I would have liked to have seen the reactions when Tigh announced his discovery of Ellen being the 5th. I would have loved to see their faces when he told them. Instead we got more Baltar mumbo jumbo. If any of the story is "filler", those scenes are it.

The 3 can live on irradiated dirt pies if she stays on Earth? That was a WTF moment, Made no sense the last 3 in existence, and she wants to be alone.

Everyone on the human side is questioning their beliefs, guess that Baltar had to question God to stay with the theme and they needed to show it, I guess.

I'll tell you what conjured up some twisted thoughts was, the scene with Caprica where she told Tigh, that now the Cylon race can go on since Cylons can reproduce now, I think she said believe me we tried, must have been a hell of an orgy. :D

I think that the sonogram nurse may be in on something not sure what, she kept giving a strange look.

anyone see this TVGuide Interview with Adama and Roslin?

http://galacticasitrep.blogspot.com/2009/01/tv-guide-talks-with-mary-mcdonnell-and.html

I think that the sonogram nurse may be in on something not sure what, she kept giving a strange look.Yeah--I noticed that too. I think that the nurse might end up relaying the fact of how historic and important Caprica's pregnancy is to hostile factions and that her life might be in danger. Imagine what a blow it would be to the Cylons to have the mother of the first child conceived by two Cylons be murdered during her pregnancy.

Just clearing up a misunderstanding. There are no "touchy tete a tetes" around that I can see.

There have been only sporadic bursts of posts in the last 24 hours so it's not like a major distraction from the conversation. There are always the Battlestar Forums if you feel your pet theory isn't getting enough attention here.

Nothing was directed at you, or anyone in particular, ec2546. It just seemed to me that there had been something like 20 posts by various folks in reference to the "light-year" comment since it was originally made. I'm not going to even bother to go back and see who posted what, or how many times... I just thought it was a little much, lol.

As for my "pet theory," I really couldn't care less. I put it "out there," like everyone else, and if everyone or no one agrees, disagrees, or comments on it, I don't really care. I think I'm sort of "on ignore" with a lot of folks here, anyway, because I tend to write long posts and have written to many off-topic posts, which I promised to stop doing (the off-topic, that is -- it's hard for me to get to my point(s) without some "extrapolation").

I, too, am QUITE curious about what happened with D'Anna. DID she remain on Earth, all by herself, REALLY??? The beginning of BSG USED to say, the Cylons "have a plan." I don't notice it saying that any more, but somehow I think at least SOME of them still do. Maybe there was someone hiding on Earth D'Anna knew about and nobody else did?

And YEAH, the posts really HAVE slowed down in the past 24 hours... gives all of us who like to theorize more chances to do it.

As for me "going to one of the Battlestar forums," for the record, THIS is the ONE AND ONLY BSG forum I read and to which I post. Like many others, I feel ONLY the folks at AVM are, in general, of sufficient intelligence and intellectual sophistication to be worthy of my time ;) (of course I'm always willing to admit to a few exceptions, but they shall remain nameless) :p

AVS is THE FORUM!
Jeff

I'm of course referring to the revelation that Chief/Callie's baby is not half-cylon. It feels like they simply wanted to de-emphasize that kid, so they went ahead and well after the fact said he isn't cylon.

It's one thing if that would have come out soon after we found the Chief was a cylon, but now it just feels like we are being frakked with by the producers. I'm not a fan of these kind of stunts, because it's pretty obvious that they decided to make this change recently (probably because there were too many things to tie up in these final episodes).

I'm thinking there's a slight, potential plot hole with this development.

After Callie finds out that Tyrol and the others are Cylons, she brings Nicky to the airlock with the intent of blowing the half-cylon kids out of the airlock ... at least that's how I interpreted the scene. They Tori comes in and talks her out of it, before killing her.

The problem is that she knew that Nicky was fully human, if we are to take into account the new developments.

Or maybe I misinterpreted Callie's airlock scene ...

ft

That's it, I'm done with this show!

Nah, just kidding.

I'm thinking there's a slight, potential plot hole with this development.

After Callie finds out that Tyrol and the others are Cylons, she brings Nicky to the airlock with the intent of blowing the half-cylon kids out of the airlock ... at least that's how I interpreted the scene. They Tori comes in and talks her out of it, before killing her.

The problem is that she knew that Nicky was fully human, if we are to take into account the new developments.

Or maybe I misinterpreted Callie's airlock scene ...

ft

That's it, I'm done with this show!

Nah, just kidding.Good point.

The 3 can live on irradiated dirt pies if she stays on Earth? That was a WTF moment, Made no sense the last 3 in existence, and she wants to be alone.

Everyone on the human side is questioning their beliefs, guess that Baltar had to question God to stay with the theme and they needed to show it, I guess.

I'll tell you what conjured up some twisted thoughts was, the scene with Caprica where she told Tigh, that now the Cylon race can go on since Cylons can reproduce now, I think she said believe me we tried, must have been a hell of an orgy. :D

I think that the sonogram nurse may be in on something not sure what, she kept giving a strange look.

According to Moore, D'Anna was indeed left on Earth. I think Lawless was only available for a short time. Assuming RDM isn't misdirecting us, this was just another one of those passive suicides (or attempts) we witnessed in that episode. Adama tried to get Tigh to kill him, D'Anna gave up and stayed alone on Earth to die, Roslin stopped her cancer medication....

As for the sonogram nurse (Ishay), oh yeah, I definitely thought something was up with her. I fear something might happen to Tigh/Six's baby.

It's interesting that the fleet is resisting Cylon citizenship. I mean, I get why. But it seems they are in fact the Thirteen Tribe. It would make sense that all thirteen colonies should be reunited.

I'm thinking there's a slight, potential plot hole with this development.

After Callie finds out that Tyrol and the others are Cylons, she brings Nicky to the airlock with the intent of blowing the half-cylon kids out of the airlock ... at least that's how I interpreted the scene. They Tori comes in and talks her out of it, before killing her.

The problem is that she knew that Nicky was fully human, if we are to take into account the new developments.

Or maybe I misinterpreted Callie's airlock scene ...

ft

That's it, I'm done with this show!

Nah, just kidding.

Possible. But it's also possible that she was coming unglued and thought that leaving her human baby behind to suffer at the hands of the cylons would be worse than dying. Suicidal people aren't rational. Tory clearly didn't know the baby was human and that's why she saved him.

Yeah--I noticed that too. I think that the nurse might end up relaying the fact of how historic and important Caprica's pregnancy is to hostile factions and that her life might be in danger. Imagine what a blow it would be to the Cylons to have the mother of the first child conceived by two Cylons be murdered during her pregnancy.

Yep, we can see this murder plot hatching a mile away. ;) If it's successful, and Six is killed along with her baby, then what will that do to Tigh? What will it do to the alliance? I don't think Ellen and Six are "related" in terms of sharing a common ancestral consciousness, but maybe they do. Tigh did have visions of Ellen when he was gettin' frisky with Six. But the shock of losing both of them, and the baby, may make Tigh come completely unhinged. And he seems to have pulled it together now, sincere and completely convinced of his convictions and his fealty to Adama and the fleet. Interesting that he view Tyrol as a turncoat, a traitor now. I was kind of surprised to hear Tyrol himself admit it so easily.

This is way over-hyped and I for one have not been sucked in at all. Very so-so. I'm finding I'm not liking or caring about the characters much at all anymore. Yes there are some unanswered questions, but I;m not caring much about it. I'm cleaning up the DVR. There's definitely better things to do... I can always catch up later.

They should have finished this up last year. I must have grown a little or a lot. I'm really losing interest now. Adama actually pisses me off now, and Lee as a politician is just not working.


Roselin's attitude about sums it up.


This is going to be a mess, I'm sorry to say.

This should have been finished last year.



True, but who cares? Not me. Not any more.

The reason I quote this post is that it seemed quite harsh, especially considering most everyone else's opinion of the episode that just aired. And then I came across this little gem over in a thread about "thinking man's sci-fi movies" over on the DVD forum a few hours after the episode aired:

Neither. Why do you ask? Under your scenario everyone appears human, and neither are "bad". Life is good. I continue whistling my tune and cruise on over the the BSG Thread to drop a load after tonight's lousy show! <smile>

then, a couple of hours later, still not haven gotten those sentiments across:

The AI as presented in these various "films" (except 2001) is intentionally meant to make us believe AI has human qualities and thus play on our human sympathies. Stupid. La la land.

The Cylons in Battle Star Galactica are no exception. BSG WAS good for a while. Going down hill now, and I fear it can only get worse at this point.

Who the Frak cares now... AI. It's old. Artificial, is the key word. Lots of AI here on this board, if you ask me.

All this while calling the opinions of members who disagreed with his own things like "collegiate adolescent stonery", "high", and "gooped up" (loved that one).

Followed by these interesting observations back in the original post I quoted:

At least Adama got laid. But so what. They are both very unattractive.
I still like Starbuck... but really... she's getting old too.

So, now I get it. He was thinking the show was supposed to be soft-core porn! And thank goodness for Katee Sackoff the show is ending before her teeth start falling out.

Now, I'm just surmising here, but I'll wager that his distaste for BSG began right around the time of the New Caprica arc when, like a number of the show's most patriotic viewers, they suddenly realized the show wasn't the fast-paced action-adventure drama they thought it was. The internet forums on this show were an interesting place back then, as I recall. And, every once in a while, they need to remind us how crummy the show has gotten and how they just aren't going to watch anymore.

I present this cautionary tale as a public service for anyone looking for a worthy addition to their ignore list. That way, you won't have to read the next half dozen similar posts this guy will make before the end of the season. :rolleyes:

I'll give RDM and co the benefit of the doubt on wrapping this up.

I'd also add, after watching the show all these years, is there really anyone who thought the ending of the series was going to be ideal? In a way, an ideal ending to the show would betray the show's nature.

Say what you want about the current plotline, but at least the show is honest about how the characters would react to the Cylons being in the fleet.

The only part I actually dislike is Zarek being revived as a troublemaker. I thought the notion that Zarek could be reformed by old age and his experiences under Baltar and the Cylons made for a better story than him going back to his old ways.

But, I also always thought that Zarek was by far the worst foil in the whole show. He's never been there as a character. He's just there to gum up the works and cause trouble. Such a throwaway.

Sorry if I missed a post, but did anyone else get the impression that Tigh is not the father of the Six's baby? Nurse was acting weird during the sonogram, much like she did before telling Tyrol about Caley's baby.

Sorry if I missed a post, but did anyone else get the impression that Tigh is not the father of the Six's baby? Nurse was acting weird during the sonogram, much like she did before telling Tyrol about Caley's baby.

I took it more that she didn't like Cylons.

I took it more that she didn't like Cylons.

....that and it became obvious that since certain Cylons could breed, they really didn't "need" humans anymore.

But it's also possible that she was coming unglued and thought that leaving her human baby behind to suffer at the hands of the cylons would be worse than dying.
That's the way I read the scene when I watched it. It never even occurred to me that she was killing the kid because it was half-cylon.

Now, I'm just surmising here, but I'll wager that his distaste for BSG began right around the time of the New Caprica arc. The internet forums on this show were an interesting place back then, as I recall. And, every once in a while, they need to remind us how crummy the show has gotten and how they just aren't going to watch anymore.
The politics of this show, or rather, the critical assumptions about the politics of this show have always made me lol. Personally, I've never thought that this show has ever taken a stance one way or the other. It just throws up questions and lets the viewer decide on their own.

That's the way I read the scene when I watched it. It never even occurred to me that she was killing the kid because it was half-cylon.


The politics of this show, or rather, the critical assumptions about the politics of this show have always made me lol. Personally, I've never thought that this show has ever taken a stance one way or the other. It just throws up questions and lets the viewer decide on their own.

Exactly! And that is hard for some people to take. Some people want their entertainment to spell everything out for them, to answer all questions. For BSG to just throw the idea of suicide bombings out there without actually saying "hey, you know, this is a very bad thing" is read as subversive by some - when actually we're just meant to think about it from a different perspective. Not a "pro" or "con" perspective.

Can you promise, then, that this will be the last post from you?

I am enjoying the show immensely. While I don't think last night's epi was one of the better ones, I still appreciated watching the fleet trying to contend with everything going on.

No. Though I do have a tremendous amount of respect for the thread here, and for the posters. The show has been for me one of the best. I'm not gong to ruin anything for anybody by posting an occasional opinion. I just want to be on record as being one of the first of what I predict are going to be a few more dedicated folks who are going to start spitting out the Kool-Aid.

So out of respect for you, and others, I will hold it down, but I will not be forced or coerced or intimidated into silence. Fair enough?

I'll tell you what conjured up some twisted thoughts was, the scene with Caprica where she told Tigh, that now the Cylon race can go on since Cylons can reproduce now, I think she said believe me we tried, must have been a hell of an orgy. :D
She said "Cylon Nation" will survive. A nation is people unified under a single government. The cylons are not unified. Tyrol said they want to join the Colonials and have a seat at the Quorum. Doesn't sound like much of a nation. If she had said the "cylon people" or "cylon race" would survive it would have made more sense. A lot of people today say "XYZ Nation", from Aryan supremacists to Boston Red Sox fans (an American baseball team). So C6 saying it that way could be anything from a sinister plot to a meaningless catchphrase. To me it sounded out of place.

She said "Cylon Nation" will survive. A nation is people unified under a single government. The cylons are not unified. Tyrol said they want to join the Colonials and have a seat at the Quorum. Doesn't sound like much of a nation. If she had said the "cylon people" or "cylon race" would survive it would have made more sense. A lot of people today say "XYZ Nation", from Aryan supremacists to Boston Red Sox fans (an American baseball team). So C6 saying it that way could be anything from a sinister plot to a meaningless catchphrase. To me it sounded out of place.
Just Before she said Cylon nation, She said "Look at that Saul, you know what that is? Thats the future of the entire Cylon race" later she said "Cylon nation will survive" I take they're one in the same. But we're splitting hairs here.

That's the way I read the scene when I watched it. It never even occurred to me that she was killing the kid because it was half-cylon.

She wasn't. Doc Cottle shared the results of the blood test with Callie, but couldn't tell anyone else, including Tyrol, because of doctor-patient confidentiality. Callie knew her baby was fully human, but couldn't bear to see it raised by a Cylon father. Since she had already reached the same emotional limit Dee would reach a few weeks later, she decided she would take her child with her on her way out. So, in a way, Tori saved one life while taking another. But she wouldn't have if she had known the baby was human. Tori has fully embraced her inner Cylon. :p


The politics of this show, or rather, the critical assumptions about the politics of this show have always made me lol. Personally, I've never thought that this show has ever taken a stance one way or the other. It just throws up questions and lets the viewer decide on their own.

Exactly. Good science fiction has always held a mirror up to culture and society as it exists now. Ron Moore made a deliberate decision to take his tale into a realm where it would more directly mirror the current events, but turn things around, flip them upside down, and make us to look at some things some of us felt we shouldn't, lest we "go all wobbly", as Maggie might have said to Ronnie. In fact, it was a very cool and unexpected direction to take the show, and opened up a myriad of future plotlines that we're still dealing with.

The thing is, given that BSG is the very definition of a "thinking man's show", most of the viewership was able to understand and appreciate the allegories presented on the screen. Viewership for the show dropped significantly because of that, but then leveled off to about where it is today as the core audience was defined. The folks who weren't "getting it" were gone by then. But they still like to drop by now and then to remind us how bad the show has "become". ;)

It's obvious Gaeta has "enough" members of Galactica's crew on the good ship Mutiny, so it isn't hard to believe that even if they had a camera in the room, those people monitoring could be on their side (they even had a close-up of the marine to emphasize the point). Or they could at least get some of their own people in the monitoring room through a shift change or whatever. BSG is a show that has never believed in showing inconsequential little things like that.


As I said before...wut?


EDIT: Not sure how this was a bottle episode (it wasn't a filler episode either).Gatea hasn't struck me as someone who could lead anything. Ive never seen it in his personality. On the man scale he is a mouse. Him leading a mutiny? It might work for the rest of you but not me, sorry.

I think that one of the things that frustrates some viewers (or former viewers) is the fact that BSG by design does not take a stand one way or the other on the very idea that compartmentalize people in the "real" world.

Many people have struggled with the questions raised in the show:

-Is there a God or gods?
-Am I free to choose my own destiny?
-What price freedom?
-What if my enemy looks like me?
-Can I ever be friends/trust/love a member of the "enemy" group?
-Is there such a thing as a "righteous" war?
-What does it mean to be human
-What's the proper role of the military to the government, and vice versa?

...among a host of other such philosophical/value laden issues.

This is not a show for people who want easy answers to questions that have no easy answers (and all wrapped up in 60 minutes).

All you have to do is go back through the thread and read comments on "filler" episodes. You know, the ones that deal with intense interpersonal responses to difficult situations. When nothing gets "blowed up real good", it is a waste of an hour--or so the comments go.

Now, some people have taken offense at the suggestion that if you aren't on board with a show like that...why not move along? I think you can still appreciate many things about the series and still wish some things were done a little better---or more attention was paid to certain details that appear to be continuity/logic errors (and may well be).

I watched the original Battlestar Galactica on Sunday nights on ABC back in the '70s and loved it. Still do, when I catch an occasional re-run of it. I also think that the current BSG, though taking quite a different interpretation of things, is extraordinary TV and will hold up in re-runs for years to come.

It's too bad cross-licensing is so messy, because I'd love to see this as an ending for BSG:

The fleet comes out of an FTL jump and encounters these strange cube-shaped ships. As the screen fads to black, we hear a voice over, "We are the BORG. You will be assimilated." The ultimate way to integrate human and cybernetic life forms.

Or not. I just can't imagine this having a "happy ending". The tone has always been so dark, there has to be a "Twilight Zone" type of twist at the end, no???

Gatea has struck me as someone who could lead anything. Ive never seen it in his personality. On the man scale he is a mouse. Him leading a mutiny? It might work for the rest of you but not me, sorry.

Well, he is a Colonial officer, after all. He's demonstrated his bravery on more than one occasion, including during the occupation of New Caprica. This is why I think it's important for fans to have seen this recent run of webisodes, "The Face of the Enemy". Like the last set of webisodes prior to the New Caprica arc, these aren't just throwaways but actually fill in backstory integral to the plot. In the case of Gaeta, what happened to him at the hands of that "8" on that Raptor, combined with the trauma of losing his leg to a Cylon and almost being airlocked at their hands, has simply pushed him over the edge. He can no longer look at Cylons as potential partners in a common cause. To him, they will betray you, they will betray humankind, they simply can't be trusted. His grief and anger have now fully consumed him. These webisodes are a significant milestone on the path to mutiny for Gaeta. If you haven't seen them, rack 'em up. Together, the 10 parts are basically a single "bottle" episode of the series and integral to this aspect of the plotline.

Terminators, the Earth Version of the Cylons....

She wasn't.

Exactly. Good science fiction has always held a mirror up to culture and society as it exists now. Ron Moore made a deliberate decision to take his tale into a realm where it would more directly mirror the current events, but turn things around, flip them upside down, and make us to look at some things some of us felt we shouldn't, lest we "go all wobbly", as Maggie might have said to Ronnie. In fact, it was a very cool and unexpected direction to take the show, and opened up a myriad of future plotlines that we're still dealing with.





I think you are too generous to Moore, et al., even if you like his attempt to be relevant. To talk about mirroring current events suggests the story-so-far in Galactica was in some important way comparable to "current events". Details matter. This attempt to be relevant was shallow at best.

Worse yet by far, it was a missed opportunity.

The big story on New Caprica should have popped into some Colonial's head two minutes after the Cylons appeared overhead -- Why are we still alive? Why haven't the Cylons just nuked us from orbit? (It's the only way to be sure.) Instead, even later, when a company of toasters comes marching along without mowing down humans, Starbuck is ranting about fighting, just like always. As a future collaborator I would have told her she was nuts, even dangerous. You fight when you have a chance of victory or when there is no hope of survival. Any other time you think first. We don't have a chance of victory. The fleet is gone and all we can do is blow up Cylons down here. The toasters don't care and the skinjobs just regenerate in fouler and fouler moods. And there is hope of survival as the Cylons have held their fire. Something has changed. The Cylons have:

a. developed a sense of humor
b. developed consciences
c. decided to toy with us
d. decided to use us as bait
e. none of the above.

Until we humans know what has happened we should be cautious about provoking the new apparently merciful Cyclons into changing back into the old pitiless ones. They can still just shrug their shoulders, evacuate and nuke us from orbit (the only way to be sure).

The obvious analogy was the Nazi attempt to exterminate European Jewry and the moral dilemmas of the latter provide a much more powerful lesson. Some Jews collaborated with the Nazis because they were bad people or weak ones. Others held out hope that the Allies would defeat Germany before their own town or village was exterminated. Others found that some Nazis could be bribed and others were worried about the gallows should the Allies win. The real question is why do good people collaborate? Baltar, as chief collaborator, obscures the dilemma. He was only concerned about personal survival. Gaeta as spy-within is not really a collaborator at all. How about having a good Colonial collaborate for good reasons and have a debate about those reasons. Put him on trial after the fleet rescues the New Capricans and have him lay into the Maquis-wannabees who almost got everyone killed.

Now, I missed the webisodes (and don't really count them in the story because most viewers probably didn't watch them -- the TV episodes should not have left anything crucial to the webisodes only) and perhaps they explained a bit more, but who started the problems on New Caprica? If the resistance did, standing on some principle or other then have the debate with the collaborators. If the Cylons started it then address the other big story -- what were the Cylons up to? There was some division of opinion in the ranks of the Cylons but it was never properly expanded upon during the New Caprica story. Was Brother Cavil outvoted by D'Anna, Six, Leoben and Boomer? Did he then try to undermine the vote by having the toasters start acting oppressive (I didn't see much change in living conditions after the Cylons arrived but maybe I missed the cutback in rations and video game time.) Were the Cylon Doves not yet sure of their dove-ishness and just marking time to see how their feelings about the genocide evolved? Did the Doves, as it were, have a plan or were they winging it -- spare the humans but torment them?

This is what I missed. New Caprica was an ideal chance to explore these questions, to show some extended interaction between Cylons and humans that didn't involve shooting at each other.

Something has changed. The Cylons have:

a. developed a sense of humor
b. developed consciences
c. decided to toy with us
d. decided to use us as bait
e. none of the above.

Can't say much about the toasters, but the skinjobs have always had a sense of humor. The 6 who duped Baltar in the miniseries had her moments laughing at him. Brother Cavil told Tyrol at their first counseling session, "I've been to all the meetings and I never saw you there." Leoben has displayed one from early on. Not so much Leisure Suit Larry or the Simons, but there are other examples.

I think you are too generous to Moore, et al., even if you like his attempt to be relevant. To talk about mirroring current events suggests the story-so-far in Galactica was in some important way comparable to "current events". Details matter.

I don't think the point is to recount modern events point for point, I think BSG is taking elements of today's events, putting them in a blender and playing mix and match with them, without being a slave to history/modern events. I think they purposely try to flip major points of BSGs story on it's head in comparison to our reality. I honestly don't think there is any attempt to sermonize on today's events, but there were times when all the jumbled up reinterpretations of things kind of took me out the story a bit.

I took it more that she didn't like Cylons.

So did I, at first, but on learning about Cally's baby it could easily be a similar situation. In the opening scene we just believe she doesn't like Cylons because that would be the obvious reason, but it doesn't have to be the real reason.

I think you are too generous to Moore, et al., even if you like his attempt to be relevant. To talk about mirroring current events suggests the story-so-far in Galactica was in some important way comparable to "current events". Details matter.

No, actually details don't matter. That plotline was a loose allegory, not a documentary. The production budget only allowed for 5 episodes shot on location at the New Caprica sets. That storyline had to be wrapped up relatively quickly. They focused on the big issues out of necessity, and most importantly, their mandate is to produce an entertaining TV show. If anyone's consciousness gets raised in the process, that's a bonus.

This show was never intended to be a documentary on real life; they're using a fictional situation to tell an interesting story.

If Colonel Tigh is supposed to be a mirror-image Iraqi resistance fighter then he should have spent his entire military career in the Colonial Navy dropping poison gas on villages of Kurdish Capricans. Details matter. This attempt to be relevant was shallow at best.

Your assumption is incorrect. Tigh was a colonial officer in a bad spot and they were trying to tell an interesting story about love, loyalty and betrayal.

The real question is why do good people collaborate? Baltar, as chief collaborator, obscures the dilemma. He was only concerned about personal survival.

Not true. Baltar had no choice but to collaborate. If not, the Cylons would have killed everybody. This has been covered in more than one episode.

This is what I missed. New Caprica was an ideal chance to explore these questions, to show some extended interaction between Cylons and humans that didn't involve shooting at each other.

Again, that wasn't the intent. You're taking it too literally, and by doing so, you allowed yourself to be taken out of the drama. They're just telling a story. Current events simply provided them a loose framework upon which to hang their plotlines for a 5-episode run.

I think you are too generous to Moore, et al., even if you like his attempt to be relevant. To talk about mirroring current events suggests the story-so-far in Galactica was in some important way comparable to "current events". Details matter.

Think you missed the point made above, and the questions raised by Moore. It wasn't meant to be literal, it was meant to pose a question and take a look at a very specific thing; resistance vs occupiers. Nothing political or historical about it, nor a concrete point being made. The timing was similar, but that's about all I think you should take away from it.

If you want to look at it through ideological glasses, do so, as that's part of what makes it interesting and why it was used. But don't mistake your critique for what it really is.


The big story on New Caprica should have popped into some Colonial's head two minutes after the Cylons appeared overhead -- Why are we still alive? Why haven't the Cylons just nuked us from orbit? (It's the only way to be sure.) Instead, even later, when a company of toasters comes marching along without mowing down humans, Starbuck is ranting about fighting, just like always. As a future collaborator I would have told her she was nuts, even dangerous. You fight when you have a chance of victory or when there is no hope of survival.

You just answered your own displeasure and the motivator for the resistance, emphasis mine.

Also, don't forget 45K people were on New Caprica, some collaborators, some Resistance, and some just getting by, undoubtedly thinking and acting as you suggested. In fact, I think the webisodes and the 5 episode story arch did in fact show all sides, the ones you said they didn't. I think you should go re-watch them, I do remember a focus on collaborator police who were doing the job because resistance was futile and they thought they could work with he cylons.

Last, who started the trouble? That was undoubtedly the occupier in my opinion. If you believe in democratic governance and liberty, you'd have a big problem with anyone forcing an occupation on you and your people in the name of educating the savage populous you live with. Telling people how it's going to be rarely works. It's human nature.

Blu-Ray would be delicious :)

Sorry. While, I love this show, this last episode is very bland to me and I couldn't wait for it to be over. The stories are so boring. Oh, someone is pregnant, oh, they are walking around, blah blah. Just was so dragged out and seemed pointless. The end of the last season was such a powerhouse of episodes. Now it seems to be dragging on and on. Oh well, at least the preview for next week looked good.

yea whenever a show says they only have an x # of shows left it seems theyre dragging it just to get thru that #.

Sorry. While, I love this show, this last episode is very bland to me and I couldn't wait for it to be over. The stories are so boring. Oh, someone is pregnant, oh, they are walking around, blah blah. Just was so dragged out and seemed pointless. The end of the last season was such a powerhouse of episodes. Now it seems to be dragging on and on. Oh well, at least the preview for next week looked good.

See I just don't get this.

How would this weeks episode work at all if they didn't have last week's episode building to it? I mean, take last weeks away and everybody would be complaining, "WTF, whats all this about a sudden mutiny of half the fleet."

I love the action sequences and pretty space GFX as much as the next guy, but it's icing on the cake. When it comes down to it, I'm back for the story. The last episode took care of a linger plot thread, planted a seed for the mutiny and Zarcks eventual fall or salvation, and gave fans the culmination of the Roslin/Adama relationship.

Pretty packed with relevancy if you ask me.

Sorry. While, I love this show, this last episode is very bland to me and I couldn't wait for it to be over. The stories are so boring. Oh, someone is pregnant, oh, they are walking around, blah blah. Just was so dragged out and seemed pointless. The end of the last season was such a powerhouse of episodes. Now it seems to be dragging on and on. Oh well, at least the preview for next week looked good.

I understand the sentiment - it did feel like a "setup" episode. But aren't these necessary? I mean, in order to get to the payoff, all the pieces have got to be in the right place. I find getting the pieces where they need to be, and logically, is intriguing. As a previous poster said, you can't just have gaeta munitying without a setup, or it would seem forced (moreso than it already does) (and actually, I can see Gaeta going from noble to "enough of this" because of what has happened to him and to the fleet. I mean, I am not exactly the "mutinying" type, but if I had to endure what he has had to endure, perhaps I would take on a new role in that regard.)

Anyway, perhaps the complaint is that BSG doesn't do a great job mixing setup and action. It seems that epis are either all action or all setup and nothing in between. This is perhaps why I enjoyed watching the series immensely more on DVD. If it was a down epi, I could just watch the next one...

Well, he is a Colonial officer, after all. He's demonstrated his bravery on more than one occasion, including during the occupation of New Caprica. This is why I think it's important for fans to have seen this recent run of webisodes, "The Face of the Enemy". Like the last set of webisodes prior to the New Caprica arc, these aren't just throwaways but actually fill in backstory integral to the plot. In the case of Gaeta, what happened to him at the hands of that "8" on that Raptor, combined with the trauma of losing his leg to a Cylon and almost being airlocked at their hands, has simply pushed him over the edge. He can no longer look at Cylons as potential partners in a common cause. To him, they will betray you, they will betray humankind, they simply can't be trusted. His grief and anger have now fully consumed him. These webisodes are a significant milestone on the path to mutiny for Gaeta. If you haven't seen them, rack 'em up. Together, the 10 parts are basically a single "bottle" episode of the series and integral to this aspect of the plotline.
On New Caprica wasnt he the gopher that played with the dog food dish? Oh yeah that is courage. Ive seen the web episodes. The whole Gatea thing seems like a waste of time. There are plenty of officers that couldnt lead a group of men to the toilet but Ive only seen one of them on this show and Geata is him. Galactica has always seemed like a testosterone filled machine with pilots that follow more macho types like Adama, Tigh and even Starbuck. The Idea of Gatea overthrowing Adama is ridiculous. The writers have really ruined this thing in the past episode. It seems like it is going nowhere.

Sorry. While, I love this show, this last episode is very bland to me and I couldn't wait for it to be over. The stories are so boring. Oh, someone is pregnant, oh, they are walking around, blah blah. Just was so dragged out and seemed pointless. The end of the last season was such a powerhouse of episodes. Now it seems to be dragging on and on. Oh well, at least the preview for next week looked good.
Hard to see Tigh smile at the suggestion of propogating the Cylon race. Really weird. I thought he hated being a cylon?

Let's wait and watch the next episode before tearing it apart!

Hard to see Tigh smile at the suggestion of propogating the Cylon race. Really weird. I thought he hated being a cylon?

Ummmm, have you taken a close look at #6 lately? :D

I'll make one final comment about New Caprica since we're in danger of drifting off track, but if Iraq had never happened and Moore had created the same New Caprica storyline, we'd be comparing it to the resistance during WWII. You know, the last time insurgents were considered the good guys. The allegory works on that level just as well. Iraq just happened to be going on when this storyline was devised. And everybody would have been happy. ;)
Exactly. The cylon march into NC even mirrored that of the Nazis into Paris.

On New Caprica wasnt he the gopher that played with the dog food dish? Oh yeah that is courage. The whole Gatea thing seems like a waste of time. The Idea of Gatea overthrowing Adama is ridiculous. The writers have really ruined this thing in the past episode. It seems like it is going nowhere.
When the penalty for such subterfuge would have probably been death? Of course that was courage. He didn't know he had help at the time of course. And it's not Gaeta overthrowing Adama...talk about oversimplifying.

Hard to see Tigh smile at the suggestion of propogating the Cylon race. Really weird. I thought he hated being a cylon?
I don't think he has ever suggested hating being a cylon (he did hate cylons of course). In fact, ever since he confessed to Adama that he was a cylon, he seemingly has a new lease on life. I don't think we've ever seen him this happy.

I don't think he has ever suggested hating being a cylon (he did hate cylons of course). In fact, ever since he confessed to Adama that he was a cylon, he seemingly has a new lease on life. I don't think we've ever seen him this happy.

Is it realy clear that Tigh sees himself as a Cylon or does he still just see himself as Tigh? ("OK, I'm a Cylon. I still like to drink and want to punch Starbuck, so nothing important has changed.")

It occurs to me that in my posting about my own disappointment about the New Caprica episodes I may have reversed my priorities. I spent too much time going over old cinematic ground in wishing there had been more focus on the dilemma of the humans. I have very much enjoyed the series the writing, the acting, the cinematography, the effects and the set design and wardrobe, but one way or another it has all been done before because we are looking at humans under stress acting like humans in all their variety (for better and worse). Virtually all of TV and movies and books, form the Odyssey to Saving Private Ryan to The Office examines the human condition. In BSG the potentially most interesting characters have been the Cylons, at least the humanoid ones. What does it mean to be human? Well, what does it mean to be Cylon? The latter right now seems the more complicated question.

The Firsts, the original seven Cylons had somewhat distinct model-based personalities. Then some of the models began to show more pronounced individual characters. Then the Finals show up and their spines don't glow. Tory seemed to show Cylonic strength but otherwise the Finals seem to be humans with extra-sensitive hearing (someone forgot to raise the Muzak volume in the Galactica so only the four Finals can hear it?)

What do these various humanoid Cylons have in common with the all-metal Centurions and the gooey Raiders? Or each other? Are the Finals more like humans than they are like the Firsts? Some days Adama hates his job but if I were one of the Firsts I'd hate to be getting out of bed at all.

I will certainly give the prequel, Caprica, a look but I can't help but wish there were a pre/se/quel, Cylonia, to give us a look at life as a Cylon now that there are so many versions. I don't know that BSG will spend any or as much time on this as I think it warrants but I'd trade a lot of other loose ends (except for who or what is Starbuck) to see them address this.

I think Tigh accepts his Cylon nature, but his loyalties still remain with the RTF. He may be a Cylon, but that doesn't change who he is as a person.

We'll also be seeing a little more of the cylons in the BSG movie The Plan which takes place...uh...I can't remember when. I think it's somewhere around season 2, but someone could correct me if I'm wrong.

Oh, and a lot of those questions will be answered in these final episodes.

A number of off topic, political comments have been deleted, and a number of members have been banned from partisipating in this topic.

I agree so much about Gaeta's motivations for leading the mutiny being so strongly influenced by his experience in the recent Webseries that I actually have to question just why they released something like that only online and not as one of the episodes for the final season.

No doubt only a very small percentage of viewers were able to or "savvy" enough (or just plain motivated enough) to get to the Sci-Fi website, find the Webisodes and watch all 10 of them. Yet what happens to Gaeta in "Face of the Enemy" is obviously pivotal to his state of mind leading to his decision to lead a mutiny.

As for Tigh and his feelings about being a Cylon, I agree that once he realized he was one, and didn't decide to immediately kill himself or have someone else kill him, he decided he was going to be an "Athena-type" Cylon.. That he was the "same person" he'd always been, and being "a Cylon" wasn't going to change who he was. As far as I can tell, that's still his attitude, and if anything, since he now has a pregnant #6 on his hands and the rebel Cylons have expressed interest in becoming, in essence, the 13th member of the quorum, he's thinking that his influence with her may be pivotal in that... Of course I'm just guessing -- especially since Tigh's never struck me much as "a thinking man." Then again, if some human kills his pregnant #6, he just might go BONKERS... I think I would.

Thinking back on what did, at first, appear to be a "slow" episode, in retrospect an awful lot actually happened; it was just mostly plot development:

1. We discover Tigh and Caprica 6 have a bun in the oven
2. In exchange for a seat on the Quorum, the rebel Cylons agree to retrofit the entire fleet with far superior Cylon FTL drives
3. Gaeta confronts Starbuck about who and what she is and is married to and then holds a closed-door mutany meeting.
4. While Roslyn continues to sit in the fetal position, Zarek holds a Quorum meeting and has an almost unanimous vote in support of NO Cylons or Cylon technology being admitted to any ship without that ship captain's/inhabitants' approval (only Lee Adama votes against)
5. When the fleet's fuel ship follows suit with those orders and FTLs away after killing two Cylons and a Colonial soldier rather than be boarded by Athena and other officers, Adama has Zarek arrested and put in the brig.
6. Roslyn goes on some kind of "manic run" around BSG, stopping only for Adama, who later ends up FINALLY in bed with her, and apparently popping her pills.
7. But not before he interrogates Zarek and threatens him with fake documents that he claims will show him up as a corrupt politician, thus forcing his hand and getting him to give up the coordinates for the Tillium fuel ship, which Athena and her flight group then go and retrieve.
8. And finally, while Roslyn and Adama are in bed, acting like two teenagers, Gaeta and Zarek are in his prison cell, planning the mutiny.

And I MAY have missed something, since I've watched the show only the one time and that was three days ago.

Point made, I think, though. While many of us thought the episode seemed a bit "slow and boring" at the time, an AWFUL LOT actually happened!
Jeff

We already knew about Tigh and Caprica being pregnant, but they did give us visual confirmation.
I thought it was a good ep. Wish it was 2 hour episode.

I agree so much about Gaeta's motivations for leading the mutiny being so strongly influenced by his experience in the recent Webseries that I actually have to question just why they released something like that only online and not as one of the episodes for the final season.

No doubt only a very small percentage of viewers were able to or "savvy" enough (or just plain motivated enough) to get to the Sci-Fi website, find the Webisodes and watch all 10 of them. Yet what happens to Gaeta in "Face of the Enemy" is obviously pivotal to his state of mind leading to his decision to lead a mutiny.



Although I watched all of the webisodes, the way things were handled in the actual broadcast reinforced why I think webisodes are not such a great idea.

Unless you had the context of what happened in them, it makes it a bit more difficult to understand why Gaeta is making the decisions he is now. I agree that it would be better to include information of that type in an actual episode of the show.

That said, I would encourage anyone who hasn't seen the webisodes to give them a look. It may clear up some things.

Is anyone getting the feeling Adama may be sick himself? He's popping pills and even Tigh says he "looks like crap". The poor guy has been shot twice in the gut and had the stuffing beat out of him twice in the course of the show, and he's getting up there in age. Plus, all the stress involved in his job, well... Anyway, think about this... Perhaps Roslyn isn't the "dying leader" mentioned in the prophesies. Maybe it's Adama. It's not clear at this point if Roslyn has really just given up and decided to let herself die, or if she will come back and reclaim her presidency. If not, then once Adama starts to exhibit symptoms, then maybe she'll realize the prophecies aren't necessarily wrong. But I suppose it's conceivable, if this is where the story is going, that Roslyn will die during these last 8 episodes and Adama will finally get them to some kind of sanctuary, and then check out too. It would be a nice symmetry.

So I will post this without reading the actual thread because of spoilers that would kill it for me.

I sat down to watch the pilot/movie when it first was shown on TV some years back and was so turned off by the opening scene and the obvious "here ya go horomone ragers" scenes to teen boys in the first hour that I shut it off. The Starbuck is a tough as nails woman (such an old cliche) and everybody making out with everybody seemed laughable to me. God, I really hated it.

But time and time again I have read that the show gets better... That Season 1 has less of that and so on with each new season...

So not liking almost everything on TV these days I was looking for something to get into and decided to watch the pilot on DVD yesterday. Somehow I forced myself to go all the way to the end and as a result I have put the HD-DVD's into my Queue. I'll keep going, despite some reservations. Disc 1 should arrive tomorrow.

Now... it isn't all gravy for me. The Baltar and the blonde angle is really dumb and I found it hard to not ff through those scenes. I'm not too happy with the "only twelve models" plot point, finding is contrived and convenient. And how many shows are going to have the enemy be something WE created? That is just pathetic PC at work and I don't like it. The Earth doesn't exist change really threw me and I hope that later on we will find it does exist because otherwise there is no real hope to this story.

There is a lot not to like. Sorry.

But then again, there is some good stuff in there, particularly Edward James Olmos, who rocks. The new Prez angle might be PC, but the actress pulls it off nicely. Other than the nods to teenage hormones, the cast is works well together and the story moves along at a good pace. The last third was actually enjoyable to me.

FX are pretty good for TV. Very curious how they will look in 1080i.

OK, I said what I needed to. Go ahead and attack me now. ;)

You just have to hang in there, Matt. I think I mentioned to you once before that by the third episode, you'll be hooked. The first one, "33", is particularly a real nail biter. Eddie Olmos is fantastic, as is Mary McDonnell. The fact that they haven't even been nominated for Emmys by now is a travesty. Genre discrimination.

The thing that concerns me is how you keep referring to "PC". I'd try to discuss that, but we've just found out last night that there's a line drawn somewhere by the mods, not exactly sure where it is. There was a whole, huge plotline, integral to where the story is now, that we were discussing yesterday that just got chopped up pretty good. Suffice it to say that, as all great science fiction does, this show holds a mirror up to society and culture today. They've commented, through allegory, on most all the Big Issues out there. Some folks, perhaps because of preconceived notions, don't like the show going to those places. Can't really comment more specifically because, as I mentioned, I don't know where the line has been drawn. We've never had a mod intervene in this thread before; it's gotten a bit tricky now.

Yes, there's adult content. It's pretty sexy at times. This is a show you don't start until the kiddies have gone off to bed.

It's a long, convoluted plotline that will take numerous twists and turns, few if any of which you'll see coming. Suffice it to say that it still takes place in the same galaxy earth is in, and our planet figures into it prominently at some point down the line. It's the journey, man.

The vfx/CGI are the best you've ever seen on TV, aside from 'Firefly'. No coincidence, as Zoic Studios did both shows. But I believe they're being done in-house at Sci-Fi now. At any rate, they're often breathtaking in HD. They have to marshal their resources with occasional "bottle" episodes, and those always induce a bit of grumbling from folks who think the show should be a shoot-em-up, so you don't see the wiz-bang stuff every episode. But it's remarkable what they've been able to accomplish with a basic-cable budget.

Matt,

No need for any attack. I was the same when I first heard that Starbuck was being re-imaged as a woman (I was a fan of the original series and it still has a fond place in my memory). However, the "new" Starbuck has been so well done by Katee Sackoff that I am so glad they went with that casting.

BSG is not an easy show, and not one I would put into the "feel good" category. I don't view that as a criticism, just as a caution....and probably one of the reasons that a number of people checked out of the series early. This is a human drama of epic proportions that happens to be set in outer space (among other places), and not typical sci-fi shoot-em-up escapism (which has a place and I also like).

Though I've been watching since the original mini-series, I find it isn't a particularly pleasant show. Some of the plotlines are difficult, if not downright disturbing, though they do make one think.

With comments like these, you might wonder why I've stuck with it. The simple answer is that it has some of the best acting I've seen in a long time. It is rare that you get such a talented ensemble cast come together and produce such a compelling story arc.

You are actually probably in a better position by watching it via DVD, since you don't have to endure the long breaks that occurred during its actual airing. I hope you enjoy.

Thanks for the comments, gents. I'm game for it. I saw some potential there, despite the stupid nods to young teen males and their desire to see hot chicks in tank tops. Far too many people I know and respect have said the show just gets better and better so it comes down to my not being able to ignore that any longer.

HEROES jumped the shark in a bad way right off the bat with season 2. CARNIVALE didn't last past season 2 (thank God for DVHS) and neither did ROME, so the only show left that I find always worth watching is LOST. Nothing else holds me and that sucks because I'd like to be able to get into something else that has some smarts and longevity to it.

Tomorrow the first two discs for season 1 should arrive and I plan on taking a couple hours each day this week to watch a couple episodes. It's cold as heck otuside, so I really don't want to go anywhere. Maybe this will be the perfect escape? Time will tell.

Oh... I wanted to watch the first few episodes of the original, which were actually darned good (the show took a divebomb in scripting after the episode set on the Egyptian like planet. Sorry, I am not geeky enough to remember exactly which one that is), but unfortunately they are all on VERY LONG WAIT with Blockbuster. Forget about a local video store. None have the series to rent.

HEROES jumped the shark in a bad way right off the bat with season 2. CARNIVALE didn't last past season 2 (thank God for DVHS) and neither did ROME, so the only show left that I find always worth watching is LOST. Nothing else holds me and that sucks because I'd like to be able to get into something else that has some smarts and longevity to it.


I've often said that LOST and BSG are the two best shows on TV, from a thinking person's perspective. They're out there on a plateau all by themselves and it's a pretty steep drop down to the next tier. We're really going to miss 'em when they're gone, 'cause we may not see the likes of them again.

But I've got to tell you, after watching a bit of the new version, you're probably not going to be able to bear much of the original series. Completely different animals.

...Oh... I wanted to watch the first few episodes of the original, which were actually darned good (the show took a divebomb in scripting after the episode set on the Egyptian like planet. Sorry, I am not geeky enough to remember exactly which one that is), but unfortunately they are all on VERY LONG WAIT with Blockbuster. Forget about a local video store. None have the series to rent.

Though I recommend against it if you are just starting with the new BGS, you could go here (http://www.nbc.com/Vintage_Shows/Battlestar_Galactica/video/episodes/)for episodes of TOS.

It even has some episodes from the dreaded Galactica 1980

Galactica 1980! Loved that show! When I was a little kid and was on for the first time, of course. Have not seen it since and likely wouldn't want to.

I'd watch the original because of nostaligia. Clearly it is a different animal from a different time and that is why it's fun. One thing about that show is the score. Very memorable and epic in feel. And to this day I will prefer models over CGI. To me it is better to feel as though you can reach out to the screen and touch something. I don't get that with 95% of the CGI out there.

Thanks for the comments, gents. I'm game for it. I saw some potential there, despite the stupid nods to young teen males and their desire to see hot chicks in tank tops. Far too many people I know and respect have said the show just gets better and better so it comes down to my not being able to ignore that any longer.

Tomorrow the first two discs for season 1 should arrive and I plan on taking a couple hours each day this week to watch a couple episodes. It's cold as heck otuside, so I really don't want to go anywhere. Maybe this will be the perfect escape? Time will tell.
I'm not following you with the tank-top quip. Do you mean the female pilots? I've never really thought those tank-tops were hot. :p The only truly overtly sexual character on the show, from what I can remember, is 6 (the tall blonde).

And like peter said, BSG isn't exactly escapism. Actually, it's the furthest thing from it. I think BSG will go down (in my book anyway) as the best television show of all time. But, that being said, I'd much rather watch an episode of Firefly than some episodes of BSG on any given day. I really have to be in the right mood to watch some of those shows, and if you stick around until where we are now (mid-season 4), you'll really understand why this show has been called the most relentlessly bleak show on tv. It isn't always entertaining per se.

Hopefully you stick with it, but like they said before, it really isn't a show for everyone. They do dark, and they do it a lot, and darker than anyone else.

And like peter said, BSG isn't exactly escapism. Actually, it's the furthest thing from it. I think BSG will go down (in my book anyway) as the best television show of all time. But, that being said, I'd much rather watch an episode of Firefly than some episodes of BSG on any given day. I really have to be in the right mood to watch some of those shows, and if you stick around until where we are now (mid-season 4), you'll really understand why this show has been called the most relentlessly bleak show on tv. It isn't always entertaining per se.


Best TV show of all time? I'm going to ignore classics like "MASH" and "The Mary Tyler Moore Show" and even "Gilmore Girls" for a sec and ask if you have a subscription to HBO or Showtime. "BSG" is great, but "The Wire" and "Deadwood" are and were completely superior to "BSG". Neither one suffered from shark jumping like "Sex and the City", "The Sopranos" or the "L Word", either. Perhaps you meant to ignore "Star Trek: TOS", "Star Trek: TNG", "Babylon Five", "Mork and Mindy", "Lost in Space", "Buffy", "Earth 2" (just kidding) and other classic sci-fi shows to suggest that BSG is one of the best Sci-Fi shows of all time?

Best drama currently on TV?

Ignoring The Shield, the stuff on USA and TNT/TBS and what was once the mind stimulating Nip/Tuck, I will have to say it's "Generation Kill" with "BSG" definitely being in the top 3.

Best TV show of all time? I'm going to ignore classics like "MASH" and "The Mary Tyler Moore Show" and even "Gilmore Girls" for a sec and ask if you have a subscription to HBO or Showtime. "BSG" is great, but "The Wire" and "Deadwood" are and were completely superior to "BSG". Neither one suffered from shark jumping like "Sex and the City", "The Sopranos" or the "L Word", either. Perhaps you meant to ignore "Star Trek: TOS", "Star Trek: TNG", "Babylon Five", "Mork and Mindy", "Lost in Space", "Buffy", "Earth 2" (just kidding) and other classic sci-fi shows to suggest that BSG is one of the best Sci-Fi shows of all time?

Best drama currently on TV?

Ignoring The Shield, the stuff on USA and TNT/TBS and what was once the mind stimulating Nip/Tuck, I will have to say it's "Generation Kill" with "BSG" definitely being in the top 3.
**cough**opinion**cough**

But just because something's a classic doesn't make it superior. I watched the first seasons of The Wire and The Shield, and while I recognize why they're considered great shows, they're not for me (just as BSG isn't for some people ;)). As for all the sci-fi shows you listed, I didn't care for any of them. I've said this before, but I never cared for any of the Star Treks/Star Wars/Star-whatevers (Even though I've seen every episode of Stargate/Atlantis, it's not great tv).

There are/have been a lot of great dramas, like Carnivàle, Dead Like Me, the ones you listed, Mad Men, Dexter, Veronica Mars, and Lost just to name a few, but yes, I think BSG is superior to all of them. And no, shows like The Closer and Damages don't come close.

I'm kind of with Moob on this, but it's a tossup with LOST as to best all-time, to me. I readily admit that since these shows are currently running, they're fresher in my mind than many shows I thought were great in the past. And that's really the point. Everyone's list would be different. But I can't remember any sci-fi show that took the subject matter as seriously as BSG, that had such consistently brilliant writing from Day 1, that was so unafraid to go to allegorical hornet nests that nobody else would touch, and that's as essentially dark in nature, as Moob attests. They don't really do humor, so when it occasionally pops up, it's like a burst of sunshine on a generally rainy day. As I said in an earlier post, nothing on TV can make you feel so good about feeling so bad. :D Matt likes dark, but he wants it to be authentic. That's why I know he'll like this.

Is anyone getting the feeling Adama may be sick himself? He's popping pills and even Tigh says he "looks like crap". The poor guy has been shot twice in the gut and had the stuffing beat out of him twice in the course of the show, and he's getting up there in age. Plus, all the stress involved in his job, well... Anyway, think about this... Perhaps Roslyn isn't the "dying leader" mentioned in the prophesies. Maybe it's Adama. It's not clear at this point if Roslyn has really just given up and decided to let herself die, or if she will come back and reclaim her presidency. If not, then once Adama starts to exhibit symptoms, then maybe she'll realize the prophecies aren't necessarily wrong. But I suppose it's conceivable, if this is where the story is going, that Roslyn will die during these last 8 episodes and Adama will finally get them to some kind of sanctuary, and then check out too. It would be a nice symmetry.

That's a great theory, one I think could be very possible.

So I will post this without reading the actual thread because of spoilers that would kill it for me.

I sat down to watch the pilot/movie when it first was shown on TV some years back and was so turned off by the opening scene and the obvious "here ya go horomone ragers" scenes to teen boys in the first hour that I shut it off. The Starbuck is a tough as nails woman (such an old cliche) and everybody making out with everybody seemed laughable to me. God, I really hated it.

But time and time again I have read that the show gets better... That Season 1 has less of that and so on with each new season...

So not liking almost everything on TV these days I was looking for something to get into and decided to watch the pilot on DVD yesterday. Somehow I forced myself to go all the way to the end and as a result I have put the HD-DVD's into my Queue. I'll keep going, despite some reservations. Disc 1 should arrive tomorrow.

Now... it isn't all gravy for me. The Baltar and the blonde angle is really dumb and I found it hard to not ff through those scenes. I'm not too happy with the "only twelve models" plot point, finding is contrived and convenient. And how many shows are going to have the enemy be something WE created? That is just pathetic PC at work and I don't like it. The Earth doesn't exist change really threw me and I hope that later on we will find it does exist because otherwise there is no real hope to this story.

There is a lot not to like. Sorry.

But then again, there is some good stuff in there, particularly Edward James Olmos, who rocks. The new Prez angle might be PC, but the actress pulls it off nicely. Other than the nods to teenage hormones, the cast is works well together and the story moves along at a good pace. The last third was actually enjoyable to me.

FX are pretty good for TV. Very curious how they will look in 1080i.

OK, I said what I needed to. Go ahead and attack me now. ;)

I am not sure what you mean by the president being PC - why, because she is a woman? I think it was not very PC at all casting a woman to play the "secretary of education" or whatever she was before she became president. What I love about how they did it is the fact that (in the original miniseries) - here they have 42 or so people ahead of her that all get killed and all of a sudden, she is holding her hand up to swear in as president. NOt in her wildest dreams, probably, did she ever think she would be president. It is one of my favorite scenes of the show, and I am glad they show it during the opening credits every time.

And your friends are right, the show does get better and better (and worse and worse, in some respects). While I think it is one of the best shows on tv (top 5 for me of all time, most likely), it is deeply flawed. The acting is superb all around. The writing is mostly good. Some of the plotting and storyline is not so good, though. Sometimes they take many liberties simply to move the story along (too much deus ex machina to get the pieces where they need to be - which is actually a criticism, I believe, of this past episode a bit). Some of the stuff that happens is simply too convenient.

But overall, the good vastly outweighs the bad on this show.

Galactica 1980! Loved that show! When I was a little kid and was on for the first time, of course. Have not seen it since and likely wouldn't want to.

You know, I started watching the original BSG reruns on RTN. If you watch them in the context of other shows from that era, they're actually not that awful.

I mean, was any of the material Schindler's List? Nah.

And, yeah, it was a little horrifying to watch the last episode where it was clear they had vandalized horses with spray paint to make them into spahorses (space horses for folks who never listened to the Firefly commentary tracks).

But, especially if you watch it after watching Buck Rogers original BSG comes off as downright brilliant. It's actually a bit edgy of a show for that time period, even if it is almost laugh-out-loud bad by today's standards.

The problem original BSG suffers is that a lot of deeper, better sci-fi comes after it in the form of Star Trek: TNG and Babylon 5. And, yeah, it is painful to watch it try hard to be Star Wars. But, for the times it was a hell of a try.

ACK! We've been MODERATED!!! I, too, noticed that... looked to see if I could tell where it happened, but it appeared "seamless," then I wasn't sure if MY next post would go through, but I guess I was one of the lucky ones, lol... I think THAT'LL TEACH US to NOT get into discussions about many small blood-sucking arachnids (sic), huh?

As for DARK, I just LOVE dark, when it's done well (well done?) :D I especially love it when it comes with twists of irony. My favorite Sci-Fi short story/novella is "Sandkings" by George R.R. Martin, which I insisted would make A GREAT sci-fi movie to a journalism professor I had who was a MAJOR movie buff in the late 80s (first In the nation to teach classes entirely on Clint Eastwood -- made national headlines with that when he was at the University of Oklahoma). He said, "No. It's too dark." I just did a bit of research before posting this and see it WAS "adapted" into a somewhat different story for the 1995 "Outer Limits" TV series, starring Beau Bridges and Helen Shaver... Gonna have to see if I can get a copy of that.

At any rate, BSG isn't ALL dark, and there's a great deal of irony in much of its darkness, to wit, the fact that Baltar unknowingly gave the Colonial codes to Caprica Six thus allowing for the destruction of most of Humankind, yet she saved him from the blast with her body (dark, yet ironic)... Then her consciousness stays in his head and both haunts him AND rewards him with seductive thoughts and memories.

We discover only MUCH later that the "reborn" version of that particular #6 is having IDENTICAL episodes in HER head with a "Baltar consciousness." More "dark irony?" In the meantime, Baltar comes to discover a hidden model on one ship and, thinking they're all the same, tries to "make her his own" by giving her all kinds of favors, and when she can stand it no longer, she cons him into giving her a nuclear weapon and she blows the whole ship up, herself first, as she detonates the bomb in person... VERY dark irony.

One could go on all night like this, but I KNOW you guys would kick me off the forum. Those are just three incidents of "dark irony" between Baltar and 6. You can find many more between MOST major characters -- not to mention entire plotlines. So it's not just "dark" for the sake of being DARK that keeps us coming back for more... It's all the ironic twists and turns very skillful writing, acting, directing and producing deliver.

As for best show ever? Please don't ask me. I like EVERYTHING, lol. I'd certainly say if you held a gun to my head and made me make a definite list, I'd have to put it in my Top 10, along with Lost and very few others. I'd also say that when Star Trek: TNG FIRST came out, I thought how great it was and what an improvement over the original (still do). But now I look at that first season or so and see how CHEESY it was until it got its footing. The first episode was ATTROCIOUS! I think the BEST Star Trek series was Deep Space Nine, which was serialized, like BSG, and had some very COMPLEX characters who were both bad and good, as BSG also does (Baltar, for instance, although I'd have to say he's mostly BAD).

My best to you all,
Jeff

Baltar surviving that neuclear blast is also somewhat puzzeling.

Either its a plot hole or Baltar isn't human and had his consciousness transfered to a non mutulated irradiated body possibly not even knowing it.

I know what Matt_Stevens is talking about with the sexuality of the miniseries, but it's almost 100% dropped after that - after that, pretty much the only hormone stuff is in Baltar's mind.

Baltar surviving that neuclear blast is also somewhat puzzeling.

Either its a plot hole or Baltar isn't human and had his consciousness transfered to a non mutulated irradiated body possibly not even knowing it.

I've been bothered by that since the beginning.

Somehow just doing a duck and cover behind a hot blonde wouldn't seem the most reliable way to survive a nuclear blast.

I've been bothered by that since the beginning.

Somehow just doing a duck and cover behind a hot blonde wouldn't seem the most reliable way to survive a nuclear blast.

Well, the next time we saw him he did have a cut on his forehead. ;)

But we've talked about this before. There is the contingent that said no way; he couldn't survive that. And there's the contingent that said maybe he could, if the blast was far enough away. There was a big group who was sure he was a Cylon, too, and that debate raged for weeks. (Not me; I've always felt, as Moore has said, that he was the most human character of them all.) But I think we can all agree the Six who was shielding him sure didn't make it. Let us seize upon that in the spirit of reconciliation. :p

Steve, the PC angle I am taking about is how WE created our own problem. So the humans created the Cylons and they turned on us. It's a tired cliche at this point, but I'll run with it because I have no choice. As many say here, the show apparently just gets better and better and that is good news because I'm bored of 99% of what is on television and want to watch something good. Something that is not moronic. Something that does not blow great potential with bad scripts (Jericho).

Discs 1 & 2 arrive today, but I won't be able to start them until tomorrow.

By the way, I watched some of Galactica 1980 online during dinner yesterday. Wow. That was just amazingly terrible. :D Camp times a thousand! Funny how thing seem so different when one is 8 years old vs. when one is 30 something. :eek:

Steve, the PC angle I am taking about is hw WE created our own problem. So the humans created the Cylons and they turned on us. It's a tired cliché at this point, but I'll run with it because have no choice.

Ummmm, it gets a bit more complicated than that, trust me. :p By the time you catch up to where we are, you'll be running all over the place with nary a tired cliché in sight. ;)

I think it was the dual air bags in "6" that saved Baltar. Didn't he have his head pressed against her chest when the glass blew into the room? Just a thought.:D
:p Too funny.

Both "Head Six" and "Head Baltar" have disappeared from view for the longest time ("Head Six", especially). We've been told they'll be back and we'll finally get an explanation for what they really are.

Anybody remember the last appearance of either?

We know, of course, it's not a chip in Baltar's head...

Both "Head Six" and "Head Baltar" have disappeared from view for the longest time ("Head Six", especially). We've been told they'll be back and we'll finally get an explanation for what they really are.

Anybody remember the last appearance of either?

We know, of course, it's not a chip in Baltar's head...

Matt, if you're still around, you should probably stop reading now. We're going to start talking about stuff you don't want to know yet...









Okay. Perhaps Head Six is the consciousness of the Six that saved him from the blast, somehow "resurrected" into his brain when she died. If everyone is ultimately part Cylon including Baltar (and I know that's a leap at this point), than maybe there was a part of him that would be receptive to this "download" from her.

Both "Head Six" and "Head Baltar" have disappeared from view for the longest time ("Head Six", especially). We've been told they'll be back and we'll finally get an explanation for what they really are.

Anybody remember the last appearance of either?

We know, of course, it's not a chip in Baltar's head...

How can I forget head six, especially holding up Baltar for more beatings.

Tigh is the man! He sure made Caprica six stop having any Baltar thoughts.

It will be interesting to see how that is all explained. Maybe we are all Cylons, and whatever entity cooked up a brand new Viper, and brand new Starbuck, will show itself, maybe they transmitted all those head Six thoughs into their heads for a reason, kinda like the watchtower song.... Wait..Wait a second... I'm getting a signal... That entity just put another Caprica six nude scene in my head? (thank you please add an 8 to the scene next time) That crazy entity, Guess we are all Cylons after all.

Thinking back on what did, at first, appear to be a "slow" episode, in retrospect an awful lot actually happened; it was just mostly plot development:

This was one of my favorite episodes in a long time, specifically because so much *was* happening. It didn't seem slow to me at all, and I can't understand how anyone could perceive it as slow.

I liked getting some insight into how the various members of "the five" internally deal with their new situation. Tigh's loyalties are clearly still with the fleet and the people he has known his whole life. The Chief is much more confused, while others have embraced their inner cylon. I liked when Tigh made the comment to the Cheif about needing a flow chart to keep it all straight.

This reminds me of what you see with immigrant populations in war. Just picking WWII as an example, most German and Japanese immigrants remained loyal to the US and considered it home. Some did not. It's nice to see the same taking place in the BSG universe. It grounds it in reality.

My one area I am having trouble with is Geata as a leader of a mutiny. I totally get how *he* would be motivated to resist integration with the Cylons. His personal sacrifices and the efforts he has made to fight the Cylons are well documented. I can absolutely see why he would step up and decide to take a more active role in resisting Cylon integration. And I am enjoying seeing the character (and the actor) grow.

But my issue is that in the general population, wouldn't he still be viewed as a traitor for collaborating on NC? We, the audience, know his real role there. So do the people who put him through the kangaroo court last season. But would most of the surviving humans? I doubt it. Most would still view him as a traitor, not somebody to trust. Unless he takes a role where he is behind the scenes pulling the strings while somebody more trusted is the face of the resistance, I have a hard time buying it. Still, I can ignore that one little flaw and enjoy the story anyway.

But my issue is that in the general population, wouldn't he still be viewed as a traitor for collaborating on NC? We, the audience, know his real role there. So do the people who put him through the kangaroo court last season. But would most of the surviving humans? I doubt it.I disagree. The fleet's kind of like a small town and certainly a lot of attention and resentment would have been focused on Gaeta post NC. As soon as the "kangaroo court" found out that, rather than wholeheartedly collaborating, he'd served an instrumental role in aiding the resistance, word would have quickly spread throughout the populace.

Well, the next time we saw him he did have a cut on his forehead. ;)

But we've talked about this before. There is the contingent that said no way; he couldn't survive that. And there's the contingent that said maybe he could, if the blast was far enough away. There was a big group who was sure he was a Cylon, too, and that debate raged for weeks. (Not me; I've always felt, as Moore has said, that he was the most human character of them all.) But I think we can all agree the Six who was shielding him sure didn't make it. Let us seize upon that in the spirit of reconciliation. :p

I guess there's no need to go through all that again. It was non-conclusive the first time around anyway. :D

...By the way, I watched some of Galactica 1980 online during dinner yesterday. Wow. That was just amazingly terrible. :D Camp times a thousand! Funny how thing seem so different when one is 8 years old vs. when one is 30 something. :eek:

You were warned :D:D:D

Actually, after giving you that link I wound up watching the "Return of Starbuck" episode which I had remembered as being one of the better ones.

I truly had forgotten how bad even that episode was. :eek:

FX are pretty good for TV. Very curious how they will look in 1080i.

Don't underestimate the quality. "Pretty good?" The effects on BSG would be on my top 3 list for best effects ever on TV. Period. Which is why they pretty much dominate the VFX awards each year. The only other VFX work in their league today is the work on Dr. Who. I think we get pretty close on Heroes, but occasionally the BSG team delivers a sequence that just leaves me standing in awe.

I disagree. The fleet's kind of like a small town and certainly a lot of attention and resentment would have been focused on Gaeta post NC. As soon as the "kangaroo court" found out that, rather than wholeheartedly collaborating, he'd served an instrumental role in aiding the resistance, word would have quickly spread throughout the populace.

Yeah, I don't know about that. 40,000+ people isn't really a small town. I live in a suburb of LA much smaller than that, and neighbors barely talk unless your kids are in school together. This population is further seperated into pockets by the cold vacuum of space. And presumably to reserve fuel, etc., travel between ships is somewhat limited. Networked computers are kind of a taboo, so email and bulletin boards aren't enhancing the communication. And when you look at the real world around us, it's pretty hard for somebody who has already been accused of something to clear their name. I don't think it's likely that he went from villain to national hero via the power of gossip.

Don't underestimate the quality. "Pretty good?" The effects on BSG would be on my top 3 list for best effects ever on TV. Period. Which is why they pretty much dominate the VFX awards each year. The only other VFX work in their league today is the work on Dr. Who. I think we get pretty close on Heroes, but occasionally the BSG team delivers a sequence that just leaves me standing in awe.
The only time the VFX work has ever left me underwhelmed on this show was on the Algae planet, when they did the ocean/mountain exploding. And maybe a little portion in the Hand of God episode. And maybe some Centurion shots. But that's about all I can remember.

There really are times when I'm just floored, like with the Resurrection Ship battles, Maelstrom, New Caprica, and the explosion which led to NC. In season 4, it feels like they've "dirtied" everything a little more, and I'm loving the feel. They've also done this blur (can you tell I don't know what I'm talking about? :p) that isn't something I can say I've seen done before with these sorts of space shots. And there was a time when the Centurions were clearly computer generated, but there are spots now when I have to do a double take (like when they marching the hostages down the baseship).

ACK!

As for DARK, I just LOVE dark, when it's done well (well done?) :D I especially love it when it comes with twists of irony. My favorite Sci-Fi short story/novella is "Sandkings" by George R.R. Martin, which I insisted would make A GREAT sci-fi movie to a journalism professor I had who was a MAJOR movie buff in the late 80s (first In the nation to teach classes entirely on Clint Eastwood -- made national headlines with that when he was at the University of Oklahoma). He said, "No. It's too dark." I just did a bit of research before posting this and see it WAS "adapted" into a somewhat different story for the 1995 "Outer Limits" TV series, starring Beau Bridges and Helen Shaver... Gonna have to see if I can get a copy of that.


My best to you all,
Jeff


Sci Fi repeats Outer limits regularly. I think on Tuesdays in the morning until about 12 noon PST.

Is anyone getting the feeling Adama may be sick himself? He's popping pills and even Tigh says he "looks like crap". The poor guy has been shot twice in the gut and had the stuffing beat out of him twice in the course of the show, and he's getting up there in age. Plus, all the stress involved in his job, well... Anyway, think about this... Perhaps Roslyn isn't the "dying leader" mentioned in the prophesies. Maybe it's Adama. It's not clear at this point if Roslyn has really just given up and decided to let herself die, or if she will come back and reclaim her presidency. If not, then once Adama starts to exhibit symptoms, then maybe she'll realize the prophecies aren't necessarily wrong. But I suppose it's conceivable, if this is where the story is going, that Roslyn will die during these last 8 episodes and Adama will finally get them to some kind of sanctuary, and then check out too. It would be a nice symmetry.

Nah, Moore said there's no relevance, he's just tired and worn out. Moore has been known to lie or change his mind though.

Thanks for the comments, gents. I'm game for it. I saw some potential there, despite the stupid nods to young teen males and their desire to see hot chicks in tank tops. Far too many people I know and respect have said the show just gets better and better so it comes down to my not being able to ignore that any longer.

HEROES jumped the shark in a bad way right off the bat with season 2. CARNIVALE didn't last past season 2 (thank God for DVHS) and neither did ROME, so the only show left that I find always worth watching is LOST.

Most that decided this show jumped the shark said it happened in late season three. The rest of us though the developments were weird, but still interesting. LOL, but some say LOST nuked the fridge a few seasons back too.

Also be careful in this thread, since there's spoilers abound.

Either its a plot hole or Baltar isn't human and had his consciousness transfered to a non mutulated irradiated body possibly not even knowing it.

There is a clue in the S2 ep where Head Baltar first appears. The claim goes it took months to find Caprica Six and download her. By implication, whatever happened at Baltar's sex den was enough to destroy her enough that it somehow prohibited easy downloading, and thereby enough to destroy him.

The implication seems to be that both Baltar and Caprica Six are recipients of miracles arguably bigger than even the one Starbuck got.

Something that does not blow great potential with bad scripts (Jericho).

In Jericho's defense, wrapping what sure looked like a four season story arc in seven episodes was a challenge no writing team was going to do well. I thought that for the situation the writers were given, which basically was seven freebie episodes to tie it altogether so crazy people would stop mailing peanuts to CBS, they did an acceptable job.

Most that decided this show jumped the shark said it happened in late season three.

In the strictest definition of JTS, BSG is incapable of JTS. Why? Remember, in the strict definition JTS is a publicity stunt to revive a faltering show. BSG has never had enough of a budget to engage in publicity stunts (unless you count the Letterman appearance, which was a high point for the show).

There is a clue in the S2 ep where Head Baltar first appears. The claim goes it took months to find Caprica Six and download her. By implication, whatever happened at Baltar's sex den was enough to destroy her enough that it somehow prohibited easy downloading, and thereby enough to destroy him.


She downloaded immediately/a few hours after the events in Baltar's house. Later, she said that it had been several months, but she was still getting used to having the new body.

She downloaded immediately/a few hours after the events in Baltar's house. Later, she said that it had been several months, but she was still getting used to having the new body.

bUT WHAT SHE REALLY meant was that she was still getting used to have the biggest EGO in all HUMANITY living inside her head -- an EGO even bigger than all those Cylon brains combined, lol.

As for "Jericho" wrapping up a "four-season" arc in seven "freebie" episodes, it was my understanding CBS was SUPPOSED to be giving them a "second chance" with those seven episodes, and if the ratings were good enough, they'd get picked up for a "third season." But alas, their ratings were as dismal as ever... Could have had something to do with the fact that CBS waited until even WEEKS into the middle of the WRITERS' STRIKE before FINALLY running those seven episodes, giving folks PLENTY of time to "forget" "Jericho." I didn't send peanuts to anyone (although I kind of have to admire the temerity of those who did). And those "nuts" are still around. I've seen a commercial or two where there's a NEW campaign to give "Jericho" yet ANOTHER go... GEESH, PEOPLE, let it go... half its cast is on OTHER shows (like "The Mentalist") now.

I can't wait to see WHO takes WHAT side on the upcoming mutiny... Should be interesting.
Jeff

bUT WHAT SHE REALLY meant was that she was still getting used to have the biggest EGO in all HUMANITY living inside her head -- an EGO even bigger than all those Cylon brains combined, lol.



http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h238/icanseeyou2/baltar_detail_blk.jpg:cool:

Whoops. Did not realize the first two discs of the HD-DVD release were the mini-series, which I already say. So I was only able to watch one new episode and now have to wait until next week to watch more. The epsiode I did watch yesterday, 33, was pretty darned good. Great idea and executed wonderfully.

The FX look very good on my set. Yeah, clearly CGI and that will always bother me, but this was good enough where I could forget about it after a while.

Looking forward to seeing more.

Whoops. Did not realize the first two discs of the HD-DVD release were the mini-series, which I already say. So I was only able to watch one new episode and now have to wait until next week to watch more. The episode I did watch yesterday, 33, was pretty darned good. Great idea and executed wonderfully.

Told ya'. ;) Usually once people see that one, and "Water" which follows, they're hooked. "33" was one of the most nail-biting, edge-of-the-seat hours of TV I've ever seen. One of the series' best episodes.

The FX look very good on my set. Yeah, clearly CGI and that will always bother me, but this was good enough where I could forget about it after a while.

The CGI spaceship shots look incredibly real - the best of all worlds. Photo-realistic with the freedom of movement afforded by CGI.

Looking forward to seeing more.

Then why are you still here? You're risking spoilage. Now, immerse yourself in the DVD's, catch-up, and re-join us for the finish run. G'on now, git. :p

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h238/icanseeyou2/baltar_detail_blk.jpg:cool:

is that a t-shirt? I want that...

Whoops. Did not realize the first two discs of the HD-DVD release were the mini-series, which I already say. So I was only able to watch one new episode and now have to wait until next week to watch more. The epsiode I did watch yesterday, 33, was pretty darned good. Great idea and executed wonderfully.

The FX look very good on my set. Yeah, clearly CGI and that will always bother me, but this was good enough where I could forget about it after a while.

Looking forward to seeing more.

Cylons "toasters" themselves didn't look too good in season 1 & some of 2. the animations were weird and they didn't blend well. Pretty much standard for SciFi channel.

The GFX has gotten much better as the show has progressed, and arguably more expensive.

Am I too assume only season 1 was released on HD-DVD? Instead of renting it, I just bought it for $15 off Amazon. Still have my HD-DVD player and titles with no plans of selling (would too huge a loss).

Unfortuantely, Season 2 DVD boxed set is NOT available to rent with Blockbuster (WTFisup with that?) and it is NOT available at any Blockbuster or Hollywood Video stores near me, so it will be a royal pain to get past season 1 and catch up to you guys.

It would be great if the earlier seasons were shown again in HD on say Universal HD. I know they did show them before, but I checked out their website and do not see any plans for showing season 2 again.

Yes only Season 1 has been available on HD Media...You have to keep an eye on both UHD and Scifi... Scifi had some Season 3 and 4 before the Season 4.5 launch... UHD was into Season 2 when they stopped showing last... They still show Battlestar on the website, just not on the schedule...

And it looks like the HD-DVD's were a disaster as far as packaging that caused massive scratches and even audio sync issues on disc 2. Oh brother. Lord knows if Universal would still allow for exchanges for fixed discs at this point with HD-DVD being out of biz for so long.

Maybe I need to cancel that order right now. :( I wonder if those sound sync problems were player specific. I have an HD-A1.

I had no problems with mine... Check Frys if you have one nearby as they have or had the HD DVD's in stock in store...(Btw I have S-1 except for 33, all of S-3 and 4 archived on EHDD's in HD from Scifi or UHD...)

Possible to have those remastered in BluRay?

I'm thinking of the entire series, all episodes after completion of the series run, remastered also to have deleted scenes placed in proper context of their respective episode(s) instead of being extras on the disc.

Has there been any word at all from Universal about BG on BD?

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h238/icanseeyou2/baltar_detail_blk.jpg:cool:

Found it...$19...gonna buy one tonight (http://www.enclothe.com/shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=2&idproduct=377)

And it looks like the HD-DVD's were a disaster as far as packaging that caused massive scratches and even audio sync issues on disc 2. Oh brother. Lord knows if Universal would still allow for exchanges for fixed discs at this point with HD-DVD being out of biz for so long.

Maybe I need to cancel that order right now. :( I wonder if those sound sync problems were player specific. I have an HD-A1.

I had no problems with mine... Check Frys if you have one nearby as they have or had the HD DVD's in stock in store...(Btw I have S-1 except for 33, all of S-3 and 4 archived on EHDD's in HD from Scifi or UHD...)
S/He's right. If you have a Fry's nearby, they should still have them in stock. I got it there for $9.99 a couple weeks ago. I haven't tried them yet, but I did check the discs, and only one or two had a couple small scratches on them. The packaging really is awful though. Whoever designed it should be fired. And whoever gave it the go-ahead should be as well.

Edit: Nevermind...I just noticed you're in NY. No Fry's there. You can risk it I suppose. O_o

Has there been any word at all from Universal about BG on BD?
Last I heard there was a rumour of a late 2009 release (like end-of-the-year late). I have no idea how true those rumours are though.

For those haven't seen the Grace Park
Maxim pictures, here they are.
http://www.maxim.com/girls_of_maxim/pictures_and_bio/1108/maximgirls.girl

And it looks like the HD-DVD's were a disaster as far as packaging that caused massive scratches and even audio sync issues on disc 2.

Find the Australian release if you can. I got it right before the HD DVD group closed up shop. Do not regret it one bit. I never noticed sync problems with either version on my HD-A1. I did go through several scratched US HD DVD sets though.

Whoops. Did not realize the first two discs of the HD-DVD release were the mini-series, which I already say. So I was only able to watch one new episode and now have to wait until next week to watch more. The epsiode I did watch yesterday, 33, was pretty darned good. Great idea and executed wonderfully.

The FX look very good on my set. Yeah, clearly CGI and that will always bother me, but this was good enough where I could forget about it after a while.

Looking forward to seeing more.

Isn't the name of this thread in the HDTV Programming Forum: Battlestar Galactica on SciFi HD - Season 4

I find it annoying to read someone's interpretation of the first season while watching it on disk. Perhaps there is an alternative forum for that.

Isn't the name of this thread in the HDTV Programming Forum: Battlestar Galactica on SciFi HD - Season 4

I find it annoying to read someone's interpretation of the first season while watching it on disk. Perhaps there is an alternative forum for that.


deal with it noob! otherwise contribute something and change the topic.

The title changes based on the current season, in reality this is the BSG topic. [check out the first post]

Oh, and you should post more often! :)

Really, the guy posts here with a couple questions for those of us farther down the line with the series, and he was welcomed and answered. Back off.

Thanks ro rickmccamy and TyrantII for sticking up for me.

Honestly, isn't it kind of ridiculous for people to complain that I am new to the series? So I didn't love the mini-series. So what? Clearly I liked the episode that followed, 33, enough to keep going. In fact, 33 was really outstanding and I am excited to watch what comes next and hope to catch up to all of you in the next couple of months.

My just ordering the HD-DVD set should be enough to prove I am no troll.

It shipped yesteday, so I should have it my mid next week.

deal with it noob! otherwise contribute something and change the topic.

The title changes based on the current season, in reality this is the BSG topic. [check out the first post]

Oh, and you should post more often! :)

Yeah, Really?? Well I'm NOT a NOOB and that was pretty much my reaction as well. Some new guy shows up with what? the benefit of having watched 3 WHOLE Episodes of a series that has about 50 eps under its belt to bless us with his entirely superficial and rather useless take on the series generally? GET REAL! Its like the one guy in every office who feels the need to announce he's going to the bathroom (as if anyone cares) instead of just GOING to the bathroom.

Oh, and Tyrant (good choice of name) Get a clue. Someone who's only been on board here, like yourself, since 2006, is one of the very last people who should be characterizing anyone else as being a 'noobie'. :eek:

Really, the guy posts here with a couple questions for those of us farther down the line with the series, and he was welcomed and answered. Back off.

Man, You are absolutely right :rolleyes: Why should anyone have to go to the trouble of actually WATCHING this shows eps , in order to comment intelligently about them. Maybe there should be a Classics Illustrated version for those who would prefer to just look at the pictures. The idea of dumbing down and backpedaling the thread for one person flies in the face of any convention, particularly a series that has this high of an intelligence quotient.

Just out of curiosity, when you were in school, did they bring the classes to a dead halt so they could explain the assignment material for you, since you chose to make no effort to read it in advance? :rolleyes:

How is this any different, particularly when the members who inhabit this thread are so on top of the subject matter?
____________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

It reminds me of a guy walking into a meeting 20 minutes late, then spending the next 10 minutes bringing him up to speed. :)

It reminds me of a guy walking into a meeting 20 minutes late, then spending the next 10 minutes bringing him up to speed. :)

You know me? :D I tend to agree without bashing, one should catch up to the show/thread in some way, In order to form a proper opinion, but its also OK if you dint, Just expect the reactions both ways.

Hey, guys, let's take it down a notch. Anybody who wants to come into the BSG fold should be welcomed with open arms, no? Just because someone is getting a late start shouldn't disqualify him from reaping the benefits of this, one of the two best shows on TV, should it? We don't want to keep all this awesomeness to ourselves, do we? Once he starts getting into the show, he'll look at the miniseries in a new light and see all the connections that were established there. The next time he watches it, and there will be a next time as we all know, he'll have a greater appreciation for it because he will understand the context. My big worry for him was that he'd spend so much time here he'd get "spoilerized". Not much chance of that now, though...

But let's try to be a little more welcoming to new fans who come here for a heads-up, shall we? So say we all! :)

Hey, guys, let's take it down a notch. Anybody who wants to come into the BSG fold should be welcomed with open arms, no? Just because someone is getting a late start shouldn't disqualify him from reaping the benefits of this, one of the two best shows on TV, should it? We don't want to keep all this awesomeness to ourselves, do we? Once he starts getting into the show, he'll look at the miniseries in a new light and see all the connections that were established there. The next time he watches it, and there will be a next time as we all know, he'll have a greater appreciation for it because he will understand the context. My big worry for him was that he'd spend so much time here he'd get "spoilerized". Not much chance of that now, though...

But let's try to be a little more welcoming to new fans who come here for a heads-up, shall we? So say we all! :)

I don't think so. So your attitude suggests that we should pander to the lowest common denominator, rather than expecting someone to make the same basic effort and investment we did without being spoon fed? Sorry, but that goes counter to just about any form of common sense. Its obvious that he's been a member at AVS for a while, and had plenty of oppurtunity to get involved in this thread without any hand-holding, for years now. Hardly the American work-ethic, is it? We've all put a lot of time and effort into making this thread what it is, and its one thing for someone to want to join the thread, and sit in the corner for awhile and get up to speed, as opposed to pronouncing that they're her and without paying the same dues as the rest of us, should be vaulted to favored nation status. He can sit in like anyone else, but everybody had to make their 'bones' here, and I don't see any legitimate reason for making exceptions for the 'new kid'.

_______________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Well, I think civility and friendliness should dominate the conversation for everyone, whether they're grizzled ol' veterans of the Cylon wars like us or peach-fuzz-faced newbies like Matt, but that's just me. ;) We need to show BSG's got a "Big Tent", that there's plenty enough bleakness, anguish, depression and despair to go around! Come one, come all, but leave that happy-face at the door. :p

Hey, guys, let's take it down a notch. Anybody who wants to come into the BSG fold should be welcomed with open arms, no? Just because someone is getting a late start shouldn't disqualify him from reaping the benefits of this, one of the two best shows on TV, should it? We don't want to keep all this awesomeness to ourselves, do we? Once he starts getting into the show, he'll look at the miniseries in a new light and see all the connections that were established there. The next time he watches it, and there will be a next time as we all know, he'll have a greater appreciation for it because he will understand the context. My big worry for him was that he'd spend so much time here he'd get "spoilerized". Not much chance of that now, though...

But let's try to be a little more welcoming to new fans who come here for a heads-up, shall we? So say we all! :)


I don't believe I need to take it down a notch, because I never went up one. :) Providing encouragement for someone just getting started seems innocent enough as is discussion of the video and sound quality of DVD's totally appropriate, but it shouldn't become a thread within a thread. I fear that has already begun here. Hey, I was fortunate when I started watching BSG via a free netflix 90 day account to catch up, become addicted and then lurk and eventually comment in a separate thread for those watching reruns on Universal-HD. I would never have read or commented in the area for new episodes on Sci-Fi, which ran simultaneously, for fear of ruining a wonderful adventure and wasting others' time. I know I would have been truly and derservedly flamed.

Hey, guys, let's take it down a notch. Anybody who wants to come into the BSG fold should be welcomed with open arms, no? Just because someone is getting a late start shouldn't disqualify him from reaping the benefits of this, one of the two best shows on TV, should it? We don't want to keep all this awesomeness to ourselves, do we? Once he starts getting into the show, he'll look at the miniseries in a new light and see all the connections that were established there. The next time he watches it, and there will be a next time as we all know, he'll have a greater appreciation for it because he will understand the context. My big worry for him was that he'd spend so much time here he'd get "spoilerized". Not much chance of that now, though...

But let's try to be a little more welcoming to new fans who come here for a heads-up, shall we? So say we all! :)

This. Sorry if I tussled a few feathers.

The NOOB comment was directed to someone with 35 posts in 2 years.

If a guy coming late to a series irks you, how about a guy who doesn't even contribute to the forum and comes in and attacks a long time member and contributor for no good reason? We're pretty civil around here, there's no need for it.

And, As I said this is the BSG topic. It's not strictly season 4, and we've never restricted discussions to just season 4.


anyways, back on topic, who's hoping for what tonight?

I'm expecting some ass-kicking TV violence in this episode, Tyrant. I think the powderkeg that was brewing last week explodes tonight.

Well, I think civility and friendliness should dominate the conversation for everyone, whether they're grizzled ol' veterans of the Cylon wars like us or peach-fuzz-faced newbies like Matt, but that's just me. ;) We need to show BSG's got a "Big Tent", that there's plenty enough bleakness, anguish, depression and despair to go around! Come one, come all, but leave that happy-face at the door. :p
I guess a lot of it has to do with how you define civility and/or friendliness.

To me, civility does not generally encompass visiting someplace for the first time and setting forth your negative opinions based upon VERY LITTLE knowledge of the subject, a subject I might add, that the vast majority of others in the same room DO have a good deal of knowledge about (including yourself, Grouchodude). Sorry, but 'bad form' does not trump 'civility '. The new kid's entrance seemed an awful lot like when you take a friend with you to meet one of your old acquaintances who's having a party, and for whatever causes this type of deficit, your friend feels compelled to openly comment upon what a disaster your acquaintance's house is in front of all the guests.

Why have the BSG's threads been designated by season each year? Obviously, to assure that we are all talking about the same issues at the same time. See, in my mind, if someone is entirely unable to control their compulsion to join in, without even attempting the effort of getting up to speed FIRST, well, that's pretty disrespectful to the group at large.

You're not really talking about civility or friendliness here, but rather someone who chooses to ignore any social customs, simply because he wants to make his presence and views known without even a bare attempt at getting the lay of the land. And someday, when he's elected POTUS :rolleyes:, maybe that kind of crap will fly (although I doubt it), but I don't see a single compelling reason why the process should be any different for this ONE individual, than it has been for everyone else before him.

___________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Can't we all just get along? Don't taze me, bro'! :p

I'm with Bluto and Tyrant. Tonight's episode is going to explode off the screen. Hide the women and children, folks, the fertilizer's going to hit the fan. Something tells me this isn't going to end well for a certain mono-legged officer...

I'm expecting some ass-kicking TV violence in this episode, Tyrant. I think the powderkeg that was brewing last week explodes tonight.

I agree. We're on the cusp of a $h!t$torm and we still have the better part of a season for it to fester and turn into revelations or some really nasty business.

As to my personal preference for this evening, I would not mind if Boomer and Six finally deliver on the 'who can show the most skin angle', which is long overdue! :)

______________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

I agree. We're on the cusp of a $h!t$torm and we still have the better part of a season for it to fester and turn into revelations or some really nasty business.


And the nastier the better. This is 'Battlestar', after all; what would you expect? I loved it when Moore said something similar in that clip show a couple of weeks back. :D

And the nastier the better. This is 'Battlestar', after all; what would you expect? I loved it when Moore said something similar in that clip show a couple of weeks back. :D

I get the feeling that there will be some Romo in our future. Politics and the rule of law are his specialty, and it seems both sides have respect for him. :cool:

_______________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

It will be interesting to see what angle the Cylons play in the events.

I'm expecting some ass-kicking TV violence in this episode, Tyrant. I think the powderkeg that was brewing last week explodes tonight.

Same here! They seem to have been budgeting on FX shots as of late, so that leads me to believe that the next few episodes and\or the series end should have some ridiculous eye candy.

Can wait for the p.o.'ed cylons to re-enter the plot.

I'm wondering how many ships the fleet looses tonight. My guess is the basestar has an unfortunate "Accident".

Stoked for tonight, our TWC affiliate here finally added the HD channel.

Why have the BSG's threads been designated by season each year?The only other "BSG thread" is the one for people watching the long delayed rebroadcast on UHD. This thread is continuous since the first season, with only title changes. The top post by archiguy is from early January '05. (My first post is #36, complaining about how much I hated the mini-series :)).

Every season, someone has popped in here who just started watching, precipitating a discussion of the best way to catch up. So far, that's pretty much all that's happened with Matt; if he starts posting blow-by-blow impressions of every episode as he catches up, I'm sure he'll just get ignored.

The only other "BSG thread" is the one for people watching the long delayed rebroadcast on UHD. This thread is continuous since the first season, with only title changes. The top post by archiguy is from early January '05. (My first post is #36, complaining about how much I hated the mini-series :)).

Every season, someone has popped in here who just started watching, precipitating a discussion of the best way to catch up. So far, that's pretty much all that's happened with Matt; if he starts posting blow-by-blow impressions of every episode as he catches up, I'm sure he'll just get ignored.

Perhaps, but unlike you and the new kid, I can't actually recall others who's jumping off point on the thread was how much they were disappointed by it, (or in your case, hated it). But hey, now you've got a bedfellow, maybe you should consider offering private BSG tutoring lessons, y'know with the way the economy is and all. :D Congrats. :p

_________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Perhaps, but unlike you and the new kid, I can't actually recall others who's jumping off point on the thread was how much they were disappointed by it, (or in your case, hated it). But hey, now you've got a bedfellow, maybe you should consider offering private BSG tutoring lessons, y'know with the way the economy is and all. :D Congrats. :p

_________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

These ongoing fights about literally ANYTHING and EVERYTHING are why I literally CRINGE everytime people pray en masse for "world peace," because the way SO MANY PEOPLE seem to just LOVE to fight, rather than live together peaceably, I fear the only way we'll EVER achieve "world peace" is the same way the "Earth" in the final episode of Season 3/First Episode of Season 4 of BSG did :eek::(

As for tonight, I agree the FX will quite likely make up for the lack of them last week, and I CAN'T WAIT (although I quite likely will until AFTER my regular Friday CBS lineup has run -- and watch the SECOND run on Sci-Fi). I'm GREAT with "delayed gratification." At any rate, my Windows Media Center is ALSO set up to record the FIRST broadcast, just in case.

CBS was ALL re-runs tonight, but so is the fare on Sci-Fi from 8-10, so I ended up catching "Shaun of the Dead" for a second time on HDNMV -- was even better than the first time, lol. Watching the FIRST RUN on BSG "live" now.

NOW Sci-Fi and KFC have a "That word you can't say on TV" sweepstakes RE the word "frak." If things keep going like this, and the word gets popular enough in the lexicon and enough people come to know it REALLY means that "other" four-letter word, I really WONDER just how long it will be before "frak" really DOES become a "four-letter-word" that's also banned from "polite conversation" and the airwaves? Wouldn't surprise me if it happened.
Jeff

Perhaps, but unlike you and the new kid, I can't actually recall others who's jumping off point on the thread was how much they were disappointed by it, (or in your case, hated it).That'd be because you didn't participate in this thread until it was a year old. If you go back and read the beginning, you'll see that not everyone was as universally sold on it from day one as perhaps you were.

Show has started. Laird Dead or Alive?

Who Wrote this BS! :) Lets see the Good guys kicking Some Ass! Not the Mutineers!

I am running out of things to throw at the wall! LOL

Is it next Friday Yet?

You know this is a good show when you want to jump through the screen and strangle the little weasel yourself.

Did I miss something, or did they not show any previews for next week. These folks are evil, evil I tell you!

they showed them before they went to closing title seq.

Does not look good for a few main Characters in the show, some reported killed.

You know this is a good show when you want to jump through the screen and strangle the little weasel yourself.

Did I miss something, or did they not show any previews for next week. These folks are evil, evil I tell you!

They showed previews right after the "stay tuned for previews after the break" clip. They were not in the usual after the break/during the credits place.
According to the previews, Tigh was killed while trying to escape and Adama was tried and executed. I believe either Zarek or Gaeta was saying this. Judging from this episode, I'm pretty sure the first part is not true and the 2nd may or may not be true.

I want to see Starbuck make good on her promise to kick Gaeta's ass.

they showed them before they went to closing title seq.

Does not look good for a few main Characters in the show, some reported killed.
I don't know what the rules are, but if the previews are fair game for discussion, let me know now so I could avoid this thread for the week. :p

I'm avoiding the previews for these last few episodes like the plague.

Knowing some folks could die isn't that surprising considering what happened, but I'd rather not know who exactly.

Oh, and HOLY FRAK! Gods I love this show.

Yeah, I'm avoiding previews too.

This episode was just incredible! I felt like I didn't even breathe through the whole thing. It flew by and when "to be continued" popped up on my screen, I yelled "f**k" - I'd just completely lost track of time!

Best show on TV. Wow.

Best episode in a long while.

Seems like a lot of the extras we've seen throughout the seasons are popping back up. And a lot of them are dying. :p

I wouldn't worry too much about those previews, moob and loco... Anyone remember a certain preview where D'anna told Roslyn that SHE was the Final Cylon, all the HOOPLA that preview caused on this thread, and what ACTUALLY came of that preview when the full episode ran? Someone even brought that up recently as an example of why we should NOT put much stock in PREVIEWS!

And SSpectre, I don't want to see her kick Gaeta's ass, I want to see her do something I think she's already threatened to do -- rip his OTHER leg off and club him to death with it, lol... Ya kinda DO have to give him credit for having mucho cojones, though.
Jeff

Well, they also revealed Earth in the previews, along with Tyrol being a cylon. And Cally's death. And...you get the picture.

You know you're doing a great job as an actor when the audience wants to line up to be in your firing squad.

Personally, I want to strangle the little weasel...then shoot him.

Aired previews are fair Game always have.

Poor Gaeta he's been through a lot!

The son of a beeootch! I want to Kill him myself.

The Cylons are probably saying "You bunch of Wasilla Hill Billy's, let us show you how to have an uprising, Go back the rink called Earth, and we will have a battle royal" the place is trashed anyway.

I wonder how he acted when he found out his character was going to lead a mutiny!

WOW - that is all I can say. What an episode. Just phenomenal. There wasn't anything in there that seemed implausible to me - very realistically done, very smartly written. I had no idea what was happening next. To sum it all up, the good guys are pretty frakked...

Obviously Gaeta dint tell Yoshi anything, probably to protect him, if things went south.

i like how Baltar pulls the card on him about the pen, thats was strictly webisode fodder there eh.

Well, they also revealed Earth in the previews, along with Tyrol being a cylon. And Cally's death. And...you get the picture.

You have a point there, mooby.

That's PART of how RDM & Co. FRAK with us viewers via previews -- we never know when a preview is REAL and when it's not... Generally a grenade in relatively close proximity is a KILLER, and I would have expected it to kill or seriously injure BOTH parties involved... BUT they had HUGE steel walkways they could have jumped behind, in theory... And we ALL KNOW what a deceptive devil Zarek can be.
Jeff

QUOTE, scanpa: "I wonder how he acted when he found out his character was going to lead a mutiny!"

I imagine he was THRILLED. Other than the Webseries, "Face of the Enemy," it's the biggest plotline and most screen time I believe he's EVER gotten in the series, and also gives him a chance to play a VERY different TYPE of character, so he's not typecast, meaning probably that he'll get MUCH better pay for these final episodes (assuming they get paid by their amount of airtime), and ALSO that he can leave the series MUCH less "typecast," giving him A LOT more future acting opportunities.

You have a point there, mooby.

That's PART of how RDM & Co. FRAK with us viewers via previews -- we never know when a preview is REAL and when it's not... Generally a grenade in relatively close proximity is a KILLER, and I would have expected it to kill or seriously injure BOTH parties involved... BUT they had HUGE steel walkways they could have jumped behind, in theory... And we ALL KNOW what a deceptive devil Zarek can be.
Jeff



Except the show's producers are usually not the ones that make the previews - the network is. I remember this on other shows, that the producers would wish the networks would be a bit more selective on their previes (I think this was a complaint by the producers of Lost) because the previews would give away certain secrets.

WOW. WOW. WOW! That's all I can say... Excellent, gripping episode. About time they had some action as well. While the series occasionally falters, episodes like this make it one of the very best shows on TV. This really is going to be a sprint to the finish line this season. I can't wait for the next episode !!!

You'd think SOMEBODY would've taken that cockroach Gage out a long time ago. Helo or Tyrol should have have set up an "accident" to dispose of him.

Except the show's producers are usually not the ones that make the previews - the network is. I remember this on other shows, that the producers would wish the networks would be a bit more selective on their previes (I think this was a complaint by the producers of Lost) because the previews would give away certain secrets.I've read somewhere that RDM was appalled by some of the stuff revealed in the previews of past seasons and insisted upon editorial control of what goes into the previews for this final half season. Given that, I'd be surprised if there isn't lots of playful misdirection in them :).

I've read somewhere that RDM was appalled by some of the stuff revealed in the previews of past seasons and insisted upon editorial control of what goes into the previews for this final half season. Given that, I'd be surprised if there isn't lots of playful misdirection in them :).

If hope that's true. If it is, I'd start watching them again. 24, BSG and Lost are the worst offenders that I've seen as far as spoilery previews go.

Best episode in a long while.

Ditto. Damn good episode. Maybe one of the best so far in the series?

You know you're doing a great job as an actor when the audience wants to line up to be in your firing squad.

Personally, I want to strangle the little weasel...then shoot him.
I wanted to strangle Tory after she spaced Cally. That doesn't mean she did a great acting job. In fact, she's the weakest link in an otherwise good cast.

I thought Allesandro Juliani's performance was bland. I want to kill the gimp, too, but the actor didn't portray the wide spectrum of emotion I would expect from a really good actor. Playing the part of Felix who himself is playing a very dangerous game calls for more than what I saw.

Overall it was a fantastic episode. What do the rebels have to gain if they "win"? Zarek as president/dictator, maybe a little cylon ethnic cleansing... and then what?

I wanted to strangle Tory after she spaced Cally. That doesn't mean she did a great acting job. In fact, she's the weakest link in an otherwise good cast.

I thought Allesandro Juliani's performance was bland. I want to kill the gimp, too, but the actor didn't portray the wide spectrum of emotion I would expect from a really good actor. Playing the part of Felix who himself is playing a very dangerous game calls for more than what I saw.

Overall it was a fantastic episode. What do the rebels have to gain if they "win"? Zarek as president/dictator, maybe a little cylon ethnic cleansing... and then what?


Good questions. They seem to have forgotten that there is a Cylon baseship right next to them, and an entire fleet of them under Cavil that wants to find and destroy them.

Yeah. Great plan.

I was somewhat surprised to hear Starbuck exclaim after wasting a marine, something about having already died while warning others to behave. Will have to re-watch to see Lee's reaction. I hope with Earth in their rear view mirror, we get some explanation of this and it isn't just left hanging.

I was somewhat surprised to hear Starbuck exclaim after wasting a marine, something about having already died while warning others to behave. Will have to re-watch to see Lee's reaction. I hope with Earth in their rear view mirror, we get some explanation of this and it isn't just left hanging.

I think she was just saying, to paraphrase, "you don't want to do this, Dying sucks, take it from me who has done it already..." I think she was just making a typical Starbuck crack about herself.

I was thinking. :eek: With so few eps left, I think this isn't going to be some bump in the road. I think this is the beginnings of the Mythical 12 tribes being the rest of the human fleet, and the 13th being the Cylon base ship along with some humans. Eventually they all find the respective Earth like worlds, and the Cycle begins again, oh then the cavils find the rebel Cylons (after thorough inter breedings) 2000 years later, and wipe them out on their new Earth. nothing new, its just falling into place, hope I'm wrong and they change.

Interesting what's happening with Starbuck. Ever since she got back from Earth, she's been a total maniacal bitch. The scene with Geata in the mess hall, the way she jumped out and struck that awesome pose in the hanger deck. I tell you what, Katee Sackoff can flat-out sell "intense". :p She seems to have lost whatever restraint she had, as if now that everything has been shattered, all hope is gone, and what the frak was that thing in that downed Viper?! She's reverted back to the only thing she knows how to do, that she still trusts and believes in. She's a soldier, by gods. There's nothing left but pure warrior and she intends to kick ass this one last time if that's the way it shakes out. If she goes down in battle, well, that's something she can understand. It's all she's got left.

And frakkin' Eddie Olmos. Are you kidding me? Please explain how it can be this guy has no Emmy nominations for this role yet? It's criminal, is what it is. Admiral Adama was nothing but a big ol' ball of awesome this ep. Of course if his ship was going down, he was going down with it. With his old friend at his side, genetics be damned. Butch and Sundance, one last time, bring it on. Like Starbuck, this, this is something he can understand.

In fact, everyone knocked it out of the park in this ep. Lee has his cojones back, Tyrol again seems comfortable in his skin, Baltar is still Baltar, Zarak is still Zarak, and Roslyn is back in the game, baby. I don't have any problem with Geata's motivations 'cause I saw the webisode series "Face of the Enemy" (and so should you ;)); frak, that would push anybody over the edge. But I think he's playing it exactly right. Geata has most always been calm, cool and collected when the fur is flying, just as he is now in the middle of the mutiny, but he's also shown flashes of emotion, anger and rage at times. Every character's actions in this show are entirely believable from their previous behavior. Their actions always seem organic, even when they change and evolve, and that's tough to do over a multi-year run - another benefit of having first-rate talent in the writing room as well as in front of the camera.

Overall, one of the show's stronger episodes, I think. And from the previews, which I will not discuss, it looks like it gets ratcheted up even further next week. Good gods! :eek:

I was thinking. :eek: With so few eps left, I think this isn't going to be some bump in the road. I think this is the beginnings of the Mythical 12 tribes being the rest of the human fleet, and the 13th being the Cylon base ship along with some humans. Eventually they all find the respective Earth like worlds, and the Cycle begins again, oh then the cavils find the rebel Cylons (after thorough inter breedings) 2000 years later, and wipe them out on their new Earth. nothing new, its just falling into place, hope I'm wrong and they change.

Man, that makes a lot of sense. I'm not sure I want to see that but it seems plausible. I agree with you, I can't see how everything returns to normal after next week.

Well, as we've observed before, BSG has been a very dark series.

I can't see it ending on a happy note. It would be too out of character. :)

Man, that makes a lot of sense. I'm not sure I want to see that but it seems plausible. I agree with you, I can't see how everything returns to normal after next week.

Yeah it does, this has been predicted by others on this thread, it just seems to be playing out before your eyes.

Adama was very angry he said there would be a reckoning, and no forgiveness no amnesty.

You can hate your enemy, and after the war still become friends. But theres no forgiving a Traitor (Gaeta and crew) ever.

Dam good show, no filler at all so far.

Crap, now I have to go watch those webisodes after all.

That'd be because you didn't participate in this thread until it was a year old. If you go back and read the beginning, you'll see that not everyone was as universally sold on it from day one as perhaps you were.

OMG, you actually wasted time going back into the archives to determine when I started posting on this topic??? Geez, I'm not sure if that's just sad or pathetic, but its definitely one of the two. :eek: And who said anything about people having to be universally sold on it since day one?? :confused:, I mean other than you, of course. :(

Maybe you might want to start thinking your points through before you actually post them. Although I don't usually give advice away for free, perhaps this will help alleviate your confusion in the future.

_____________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

OMG, you actually wasted time going back into the archives to determine when I started posting on this topic??? Geez, I'm not sure if that's just sad or pathetic, but its definitely one of the two. :eek: And who said anything about people having to be universally sold on it since day one?? :confused:, I mean other than you, of course. :(Once again, you said:
I can't actually recall others who's jumping off point on the thread was how much they were disappointed by it.I looked up when you started participating in this thread because I could clearly recall others posting here who were equally disappointed in the mini-series. (And don't worry--it didn't take much effort. A few keystrokes and about 15 seconds).

And as for thinking before I post, perhaps you should try it at least once before criticizing others :rolleyes:. Nothing you've ever said in this thread has been worth responding to and I can't imagine why I've ever bothered. Welcome to my ignore list--feel free to place me on yours :).

Seems like a lot of the extras we've seen throughout the seasons are popping back up. And a lot of them are dying. :p

Those have been BSG rules forever. Developed secondary characters are cannon fodder. Go down the list: Cally, Crashdown, Kat . . . throw Laird in there and call it a day.

When the series is over, the silent bald, tatted-up Chinese guy will turn the camera and let loose a single tear. Fade to black.

I thought Allesandro Juliani's performance was bland. I want to kill the gimp, too, but the actor didn't portray the wide spectrum of emotion I would expect from a really good actor. Playing the part of Felix who himself is playing a very dangerous game calls for more than what I saw.

I deeply disagree. I thought his flatness sold the story.

Why?

Because this isn't Star Trek II. This isn't Khan getting revenge on Kirk (itself a latter-day retelling of Moby Dick, with William Shatner in the role of The Whale).

Gaeta is tired. Yeah, he's pissed. But at the base of it, he's tired.

The Colonials are at the base of it a culture of resistance. Everything about their civilization is about resisting the Cylons. Worse, the core leaders of the ongoing resistance (Saul, Sam and Chief) are all Cylons themselves.

That would freak people the frak out. Badly.

I wanted to strangle Tory after she spaced Cally. That doesn't mean she did a great acting job. In fact, she's the weakest link in an otherwise good cast.

I thought Allesandro Juliani's performance was bland. I want to kill the gimp, too, but the actor didn't portray the wide spectrum of emotion I would expect from a really good actor. Playing the part of Felix who himself is playing a very dangerous game calls for more than what I saw.

Overall it was a fantastic episode. What do the rebels have to gain if they "win"? Zarek as president/dictator, maybe a little cylon ethnic cleansing... and then what?

I thought he played it well, cool, calm and ruthless in the face of reason. He's always been that way in the past, why would it change? He just doesn't give a frak about the way things were going anymore, and he was going to see this through.

I was somewhat surprised to hear Starbuck exclaim after wasting a marine, something about having already died while warning others to behave. Will have to re-watch to see Lee's reaction. I hope with Earth in their rear view mirror, we get some explanation of this and it isn't just left hanging.

We will.

Once again, you said:
I looked up when you started participating in this thread because I could clearly recall others posting here who were equally disappointed in the mini-series. (And don't worry--it didn't take much effort. A few keystrokes and about 15 seconds).

And as for thinking before I post, perhaps you should try it at least once before criticizing others :rolleyes:. Nothing you've ever said in this thread has been worth responding to and I can't imagine why I've ever bothered. Welcome to my ignore list--feel free to place me on yours :).

Oh Snap!

Once again, you said:
I looked up when you started participating in this thread because I could clearly recall others posting here who were equally disappointed in the mini-series. (And don't worry--it didn't take much effort. A few keystrokes and about 15 seconds).
Hmm. Then I guess my decision not to lose any sleep about that, was the right one after all, huh? :rolleyes:
Nothing you've ever said in this thread has been worth responding to and I can't imagine why I've ever bothered.
NOTHING? NOT A SINGLE THING with all of my posts?? Ouch, that's harsh. ;), and yet....you did seem compelled to respond without any encouragement on my part, no? What's that all about? Seems kind of odd, don't you think?
Welcome to my ignore list :).
Well, at the very least I guess we'll get to see whether you're a man of your word or not. Oh, and hey, don't go away mad, etc. :p

______________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Loved it...next Friday is TOO Far away!

Those have been BSG rules forever. Developed secondary characters are cannon fodder. Go down the list: Cally, Crashdown, Kat . . . throw Laird in there and call it a day.

To be fair, I wouldn't call Cally or Kat secondary characters. Well, not compared to Laird, the marine Adama shot, that sunshine boy, Hoshi, Jaffe, and a whole list of folks whose name we know but have never really had that much to say. Actually, I don't even know some of their names. :p We've just seen them before.

I'd like to pose a stupid question: With the mutiny in full swing, would it be a cliche for Cavil and his group to show up at the end of the next episode?

My brother and I had an interesting conversaton this morning about the rebellion.

When you consider that the cylons have nearly eliminated humanity, isn't it insane to join forces with any of them? Although I agreed with my brother, I like Adama and would likely be on his side. I always pick the looser.

My brother and I had an interesting conversaton this morning about the rebellion.

When you consider that the cylons have nearly eliminated humanity, isn't it insane to join forces with any of them? Although I agreed with my brother, I like Adama and would likely be on his side. I always pick the looser.

Well, perhaps - but not if you absolutely believe that these cylons are truly fundamentally different from Cavil and opposed to Cavil and the other cylons. I would be worried, that since they are machines, no matter how they believe right now, that something would switch them against the humans. But it seems the longer they spend around humans, the more "human" their emotions get.

Without the earth as the hopeful place to go, the humans are screwed and really have no place to go. Why not join the cylons and get their technology - especially if it helps them travel farther and faster.

But I think the mutiny is not only plausible, but makes a lot of sense. Remember, even if Adama is aware of how "good" these cylons are, he and the rest of the "elite" (the President and select members of the "upper circle") are the only ones that are really aware of what is going on - not even the quorum is up to speed or was involved in any of that stuff. So it is absolutely no surprise that the uprising occurred. Look at it from their perspective, while they may ultimately respect Adama, nothing less than the future of the human race is at stake. Which is why I wish they wouldn't portray Zarek or the other uprising-ites as "evil". I mean, they have a serious gripe about what is going on.

Help me with my memory of the chain of events because this just doesn't make any sense to me..........

How are Baltar and his hippy groupies living on Galactica? I cannot think of any explanation that makes sense. Wouldn't it make more sense for him to be based on a civilian ship? Was there some rationale that I have forgotten?

And that's the beauty of it isn't it? You can see it from both sides. Lee made sure to point that out to Adama, and I loved their little conversation that went something like...

Lee: This is what survival has come to...
Adama: This is all we've got...
Lee: It's all they left us.

That's why I love this show so much. The viewer gets to decide which side they're on.


EDIT: Baltar and his cult have been living there since the end of season 3/beginning of 4. They said that no civilian ship wanted him, and the safest place for him was on Galactica. I think Roslin wanted to keep an eye on him as well if I remember correctly, so they let him stay.

Help me with my memory of the chain of events because this just doesn't make any sense to me..........

How are Baltar and his hippy groupies living on Galactica? I cannot think of any explanation that makes sense. Wouldn't it make more sense for him to be based on a civilian ship? Was there some rationale that I have forgotten?

I think, they want him within dragging distance of the brig.
They have said before "keep your enemy's closer"

I think, they want him within dragging distance of the brig.
They have said before "keep your enemy's closer"

I think that's a good explanation. I believe some people may still be slightly annoyed over Baltar's administration on New Caprica.

I think, they want him within dragging distance of the brig.
They have said before "keep your enemy's closer"

Speaking of Baltar, how many of you thought he was going to turn over the president? He surprised me for once... maybe he is fundamentally changing.

Loved how everything was balancing on a wire this episode, so many directions each action could have taken, keeping you on the tip of your seat.

And see how each episode lead to this? It would have never worked as a stand alone.

These past three episodes and the next won't be fully appreciated till you can sit down and watch them all in one run on bluray.

I really want to like this series but dang miss one episode and you're out.

I think that's a good explanation. I believe some people may still be slightly annoyed over Baltar's administration on New Caprica.

Your right its the safest place.
Speaking of Baltar, how many of you thought he was going to turn over the president? He surprised me for once... maybe he is fundamentally changing.

Loved how everything was balancing on a wire this episode, so many directions each action could have taken, keeping you on the tip of your seat.

And see how each episode lead to this? It would have never worked as a stand alone.

These past three episodes and the next won't be fully appreciated till you can sit down and watch them all in one run on bluray.


I think he thought about giving up Roslyn, but I'm sure it wasn't for very long, All she has to do is tell the Cylon hating mutineers, that he alone is responsible the the betrayal of Humanity.

Yeah this would all be great on Blue ray, as long as it doesn't cost an arm and leg. Its nice to see a good series all the way thru in one shot, I did that with lost, up until three or so months ago, I hadn't ever watched that show, then I started and could not stop, I saw it all in a two week period. :o

Speaking of Baltar, how many of you thought he was going to turn over the president? He surprised me for once... maybe he is fundamentally changing.


Come on!
He knows they would string him up no matter what. He just wanted to mess with Geatas head.

... Generally a grenade in relatively close proximity is a KILLER, and I would have expected it to kill or seriously injure BOTH parties involved... BUT they had HUGE steel walkways they could have jumped behind, in theory... And we ALL KNOW what a deceptive devil Zarek can be ...Flash-bang.

v/r,
C-F

:D

Not much point of a flash bang if they can't enter the room. Unless they just like screwing with the old man.

On the other hand, it seems foolish to toss an explosive grenade into a room with an exterior bulkhead and an airlock.

Well, they were prying open the door when he shot at them through the crack. :) I'm not sure I would have tossed any real explosives into an room with an airlock (potentially still open to the Raptor) especially through a [forced open/stuck] door I could not close. Although they could have "airlock safe" ordinance. :p

Of course earlier, the suited Marines were taking orders from sweater wearing Henry the Werewolf, so no idea of what they would or wouldn't toss through a crack. :D

I just erased it, so just off of my memory, the positioning of Admiral Adama and Commander Tigh would seem to favor Adama taking the brunt of it in his [uncovered and unconcealed] stairway position over Tigh's, which was at least kneeling behind some [transit cases / generic FPS crates].

v/r,
C-F

Damn slow typing. It's a sign to go re-watch Lost.

Yeah this would all be great on Blue ray, as long as it doesn't cost an arm and leg. Its nice to see a good series all the way thru in one shot, I did that with lost, up until three or so months ago, I hadn't ever watched that show, then I started and could not stop, I saw it all in a two week period. :o

I envy you! Better late than never...and you've caught it on a serious upswing in quality. The only thing that sucked about last season was the strike shortened 14 eps.

Interesting what's happening with Starbuck. Ever since she got back from Earth, she's been a total maniacal bitch. The scene with Geata in the mess hall, the way she jumped out and struck that awesome pose in the hanger deck. I tell you what, Katee Sackoff can flat-out sell "intense". :p She seems to have lost whatever restraint she had, as if now that everything has been shattered, all hope is gone, and what the frak was that thing in that downed Viper?! She's reverted back to the only thing she knows how to do, that she still trusts and believes in. She's a soldier, by gods. There's nothing left but pure warrior and she intends to kick ass this one last time if that's the way it shakes out. If she goes down in battle, well, that's something she can understand. It's all she's got left.

And frakkin' Eddie Olmos. Are you kidding me? Please explain how it can be this guy has no Emmy nominations for this role yet? It's criminal, is what it is. Admiral Adama was nothing but a big ol' ball of awesome this ep. Of course if his ship was going down, he was going down with it. With his old friend at his side, genetics be damned. Butch and Sundance, one last time, bring it on. Like Starbuck, this, this is something he can understand.

In fact, everyone knocked it out of the park in this ep. Lee has his cojones back, Tyrol again seems comfortable in his skin, Baltar is still Baltar, Zarak is still Zarak, and Roslyn is back in the game, baby. I don't have any problem with Geata's motivations 'cause I saw the webisode series "Face of the Enemy" (and so should you ;)); frak, that would push anybody over the edge. But I think he's playing it exactly right. Geata has most always been calm, cool and collected when the fur is flying, just as he is now in the middle of the mutiny, but he's also shown flashes of emotion, anger and rage at times. Every character's actions in this show are entirely believable from their previous behavior. Their actions always seem organic, even when they change and evolve, and that's tough to do over a multi-year run - another benefit of having first-rate talent in the writing room as well as in front of the camera.

Overall, one of the show's stronger episodes, I think. And from the previews, which I will not discuss, it looks like it gets ratcheted up even further next week. Good gods! :eek:

Great wisdom and insight flows from the fingers of Senior Groucho with a post almost as good as the episode, itself.

I, too, agree that Gaeta's rather "flat" affect is very much in character and very much how it should be portrayed for him as leader of the mutiny. He's NOT the type to ever go "Rambo" like Starbuck.

I do have one question, however... Can anyone tell me how you DO put someone on your ignore list, since it came up?
Jeff

Too add someone to the ignore list:
CLick on thier name then "View Profile"
YOu will see "User Lists" under thier name.
Click that then click "Add to Ignore List"

THis will block that persons posts, but if you choose you can still see what they posted by click "view post" next to thier blocked post. Most of the time however you will still see the post if somone quotes them.


As for the Episode another great episode, as others have said the webisodes and lead in episodes were ALL needed to bring us to this point. Cant wait until next week, I think the previews were meant to mislead us, but I guess we will see next week. I thought the last clip of Ros was "chilling", especially if she was told that they executed or killed Adama. She would be hell bent on destroying everyone, becasue of her love for Adama.

As for Gaeta's acting it was perfect for his character. He has become a cold calculating person that is now in power where before he was always the pawn in everyones game. In the end I think his lack of experience calling the shots is what is going to get them all in trouble.

On the other hand, it seems foolish to toss an explosive grenade into a room with an exterior bulkhead and an airlock.

On the third hand ;) , an explosive grenade is not necessarily enough energy to damage the bulkhead of a heavily armored battleship, either. A typical anti-personnel grenade is usually just enough to injure fleshy parts within a 10 ft perimeter, no?

The flash-bang seems more plausible, now that it is mentioned. It didn't occur to me, then. True, it doesn't make much sense to use it if you cannot enter the room (as noted earlier), but maybe it is used to temporarily disorientate our 2 heroes while they work on the door to get it completely open?

Which is why I wish they wouldn't portray Zarek or the other uprising-ites as "evil". I mean, they have a serious gripe about what is going on.
Zarek is just manipulating them to achieve his own goals. He did the same thing when he used the allure of a permanent home on New Caprica to play on everyone's emotions and get Baltar elected. Zarek is looking out for Zarek, period. After another day of reflection I think it doesn't matter what those goals are, exactly, because the point is he thinks the end justifies the means. Adama and Roslin have slipped into that as well on occasion, but they always seem to relent and do the right thing.

Armed rebellion is not always evil, but these mutineers are indeed following an evil agenda. They'll do anything at this point, whatever it takes, rules, the law, duty, oaths and loyalty have all been cast aside. When Starbuck shot the first guy I jumped up off the couch and yelled, "Yeah!". Score one for the good guys against the evildoers.

I think he thought about giving up Roslyn, but I'm sure it wasn't for very long, All she has to do is tell the Cylon hating mutineers, that he alone is responsible the the betrayal of Humanity.

Yeah this would all be great on Blue ray, as long as it doesn't cost an arm and leg.
Second point first: It already looks great on widescreen DVD even if it's not true HD.

Baltar is not responsible for the betrayal of humanity. He was duped by Caprica 6. He has always felt guilty about that, but he really was in the dark about her treachery right up until the day the Colonies were attacked.

I'd argue the most serious crime he committed was giving the nuke to Gina. That was something he did knowingly and ultimately it ended up being a beacon that led the cylons to New Caprica after Gina set it off.

The truth about whether or not his Cylon Detector actually worked - and the test results - might have made a huge difference early on. He would probably be held accountable for that as well in a perfect universe.

Truly. As to that act, am I the only one who got the impression that Gina set that bomb off NOT as an act of treachery so much as an act of suicide, being that she felt trapped in what she saw as a hideous relationship with a Baltar who couldn't understand why she didn't love him? I mean, I got the impression it was TOTALLY about suicide, and the destruction of the ship and all the humans onboard was just incidental to that.

[QUOTE=The truth about whether or not his Cylon Detector actually worked - and the test results - might have made a huge difference early on. He would probably be held accountable for that as well in a perfect universe.

How true. I mean, the ONLY TIME we ever actually got to see an actual "result" on his Cylon Detector machine was when he tested Boomer, and she tested POSITIVE (and at the time she was beginning to suspect she was a Cylon and was worried about it), but "HEAD 6" convinced him to lie to her and tell her the test was negative, and so she went on her way, relieved and unaware of the treachery she would later commit (of course had he told her, it would have likely "flipped a switch" and she would have killed him right then and there). BUT he could have lied to HER and then told Adama, changing the entire course of events -- not that OUR STORY would have been NEARLY as good or interesting... It's just that IF Adama and/or Roslyn knew about either the Gina/bomb incident OR the Boomer positive Cylon test lie -- not to mention BOTH -- I agree Baltar would probably have been free-floating space debris LONG ago.
Jeff

I always thought she detonated the nuke mainly because of her despair. There had to be some part of her, though, that wanted to go out in a blaze of glory and take out some humans, too. She was really frakked in the head after what happened to her on the Pegasus; I don't think she ever fully recovered from that abuse. She could have set it off at any time, but I seem to remember that by the time she pulled the pin most of the fleet's population was already down on New Caprica. That would lead one to believe that killing as many humans as possible wasn't her primary motivation. Most of them were on the surface. I could be wrong about the sequence of events in that episode.

Second point first: It already looks great on widescreen DVD even if it's not true HD.

Baltar is not responsible for the betrayal of humanity. He was duped by Caprica 6. He has always felt guilty about that, but he really was in the dark about her treachery right up until the day the Colonies were attacked.
. That makes him responsible. He's one of the greatest mind of the 12 colonies, Yet he was duped! I think not. While he may not have known the outcome (the end of Humanity) of just giving (or sell it for sex) classified info to a hot blond, he is certainly smart enough to know, that the end result was not going to be good. I think he knew she was Cylon, I have no doubt the question came up, in bed. Baltar "Hey babe why do your nipples light up? and the room glows red, when we frak " Caprica "Ah.. I'm a Cylon?" Baltar "OK". Responsible? Yeah I think so.

That makes him responsible. He's one of the greatest mind of the 12 colonies, Yet he was duped! I think not.

You kidding? :confused: History is replete with stories about how great and brilliant men have lost their heads in a cloud of hormones, pheromones and lust. :p Unlike the Cylons, humans are creatures of chemistry, are they not? And Baltar is the most human of them all. He's vain, narcissistic, selfish, arrogant, self-centered, and suffering from delusions of grandeur. His brilliance tempers nary a one of those tendencies. To see him duped in such a classic fashion, by the allure of a beautiful woman, is entirely within character. In fact, it's not inconceivable that Six was chosen (or created) for her "undercover" role specifically because of Baltar's weaknesses.

You kidding? :confused: History is replete with stories about how great and brilliant men have lost their heads in a cloud of hormones, pheromones and lust. :p Unlike the Cylons, humans are creatures of chemistry, are they not? And Baltar is the most human of them all. He's vain, narcissistic, selfish, arrogant, self-centered, and suffering from delusions of grandeur. His brilliance tempers nary a one of those tendencies. To see him duped in such a classic fashion, by the allure of a beautiful woman, is entirely within character. In fact, it's not inconceivable that Six was chosen (or created) for her "undercover" role specifically because of Baltar's weaknesses.

So he dint think about the consequences, when it said "the codes or no snatch today" Well I would have given up the codes too. :) Regardless of how you see it he's still responsible, Its not like he's 8 years old.

So he dint think about the consequences, when it said "the codes or no snatch today" Well I would have given up the codes too. :) Regardless of how you see it he's still responsible, Its not like he's 8 years old.

Actually, I don't think she said it in so many words. ;) And he's well aware of his responsibility in the holocaust. It's affected him deeply. Not enough to change much, but he's no longer in denial about it.

:D

Not much point of a flash bang if they can't enter the room. Unless they just like screwing with the old man.

Huh?

They tossed in a flashbang to incapacitate them so they could enter the room without them shooting at them the whole time. The already cut through the bulkhead lock and had priers prying the door open enough for it, and ready to open it all the way.


It wasn't a frag.

Frags don't make giant white explosions.

Yeah, it was pretty obvious it was a flash-bang. What I don't like about this whole rebellion thing is the ep where Gaeta said "Let's talk" and had the door closed - there's like 20+ people in the room and not a SINGLE one doesn't like what they hear and report it up the chain?? I don't watch the previews so I half expected the rebellion to end about 30 seconds after it started.

Also hated Laird getting killed and Pegasus a-holes popping out of the woodwork.

Yeah, it was pretty obvious it was a flash-bang. What I don't like about this whole rebellion thing is the ep where Gaeta said "Let's talk" and had the door closed - there's like 20+ people in the room and not a SINGLE one doesn't like what they hear and report it up the chain?? I don't watch the previews so I half expected the rebellion to end about 30 seconds after it started.

Also hated Laird getting killed and Pegasus a-holes popping out of the woodwork.

I can definitely buy that not a single person would report it. Remember that everyone they ever knew was killed by the cylons. That's a pretty big motivator right there...

Yeah, it was pretty obvious it was a flash-bang. What I don't like about this whole rebellion thing is the ep where Gaeta said "Let's talk" and had the door closed - there's like 20+ people in the room and not a SINGLE one doesn't like what they hear and report it up the chain?? I don't watch the previews so I half expected the rebellion to end about 30 seconds after it started.

Also hated Laird getting killed and Pegasus a-holes popping out of the woodwork.

I figure he hadn't hatched a plot yet, but was feeling them out for those like him that had some issues with the way things were. Figuring out who was sympathetic to what he was planning.

The mutiny plan was born out of his plan to release Zarck, not made in the mess hall.

It's amazing how much support Gaeta was able to rally. Wasn't it only a while ago when they had just left Caprica 1, where he was essentially a pariah to the crewmates? The Chief was the only one who would eat with him at the dinner table, and that was only because he was trying to send a message, rather than any great desire to eat with him. Granted, Gaeta was instrumental to being the liason between the resistance and the Caprica 1 leadership (that was the one and only thing that saved him from an airlock trial, actually).

He has really run the gamut of being accepted to being rejected amongst his crewmates.

Yeah, it was pretty obvious it was a flash-bang. What I don't like about this whole rebellion thing is the ep where Gaeta said "Let's talk" and had the door closed - there's like 20+ people in the room and not a SINGLE one doesn't like what they hear and report it up the chain?? I don't watch the previews so I half expected the rebellion to end about 30 seconds after it started.
I can't really see how it could be anything but a flashbang/stun grenade of some sort.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but in that scene with Starbuck and Gaeta, after she left, didn't a couple others leave with her? I thought that was an indication that the people who were on her side left with her, and the people who were on Gaeta's side stayed in the room. Unless I imagined it. :p

It's amazing how much support Gaeta was able to rally. Wasn't it only a while ago when they had just left Caprica 1, where he was essentially a pariah to the crewmates? The Chief was the only one who would eat with him at the dinner table, and that was only because he was trying to send a message, rather than any great desire to eat with him. Granted, Gaeta was instrumental to being the liason between the resistance and the Caprica 1 leadership (that was the one and only thing that saved him from an airlock trial, actually).

He has really run the gamut of being accepted to being rejected amongst his crewmates.
That was way back in the beginning of season 3. I have no clue how much time has passed since then, but I'm guessing it's quite a while. And (my memory's iffy again here) I think what he did for the resistance was made public, and everyone found out he tried to stab Baltar during his trial. So the fleet and the crew know where his loyalties lie. Or did anyway...


As an aside, I just started re-watching season 1 on HD-DVD, and I had audio synch issues during the 2nd half of the mini. =\ But so far those are the only problems, and 33 looked a lot prettier than the mini. It's insane how much I've forgotten about the show. For instance...I forgot how religious Head-6 was even in the mini.

"Let's talk" is a VERY subtle way to begin the possible discussion of an insurrection. From that point forward, Gaeta likely felt out everyone in the room, and at various points asked something like, "is there anyone who disagrees?" And at some point, he likely switched from a negative question to a positive something like "are we all together on this?"

By the end of his "talk," assuming he HAD determined that everyone in the room WAS of a "like mind," he'd likely raised them to something of a "fever pitch" and had them all agreeing to a mutiny with answers to such questions.

Anyone who's ever seen how great speakers manipulate audiences knows they don't have to be like Evangelists, with all kinds of charisma and whatnot. Sometimes someone with a soft voice but a way of "reasoning" with people can be equally or even MORE effective. Look at Baltar and HIS talks. He rarely, if ever raises his voice or talks "with authority," yet he's been very convincing to a great many people.

As for Caprica 6 talking Baltar into giving her the Colonial codes on Caprica, there's NEVER been any real discussion as to just WHAT her supposed JOB was on Caprica. It's quite possible she was SUPPOSED to be someone who worked in that field and had some sort of "legitimate reason" to have those codes, perhaps some reason that should have STILL required official authorization, but something "close enough" to legitimate that combined with her sexual plying of Baltar, she was able to convince him that she DID have a legitimate reason for him to give her the codes and that there was no reason for him to be concerned about it.

I mean, if we rememeber, the "skin jobs" were quite effective prior to the Colonial discovery of their existence of placing themselves in very KEY positions within the government and the fleet, as did the #6 on the Pegasys, even becoming the lesbian lover of the Admiral along with having a job that gave her access to key systems throughout the ship...

And look at Boomer. Not only was she a highly trusted Lieutenant in the fleet, Adama also thought of her "almost like a daughter."

So we can't fault Baltar TOO MUCH for those codes, necessarily, but STILL the two other major acts since are DEFINITELY worthy of a hatch-blowing experience.
Jeff

I too watched disk 1 of HDDVD set yesterday and Baltar mentions to 6 that giving her access to codes would allow her to have an edge in contract bidding. When she tells him she's a cylon and how access helped in the upcoming attack, Baltar freaks out, denies all, and worries what they'll (humans) will do to him.

6's statements about God oozes conviction.

As far as I know, the series has never explored how the skin jobs are machines yet they are so identical that it is next to impossible to tell them apart from humans even with their advanced technology. Opens up the deep questions of what it means to be alive and to be human.

That's the first question and statement of the series: Are you alive?

I too watched disk 1 of HDDVD set yesterday and Baltar mentions to 6 that giving her access to codes would allow her to have an edge in contract bidding. When she tells him she's a cylon and how access helped in the upcoming attack, Baltar freaks out, denies all, and worries what they'll (humans) will do to him.

6's statements about God oozes conviction.

I don't remember the comments about contract bidding, but then I don't have any of the series on pre-recorded disc, and very little of it recorded on Media Center... I also think I've missed some of the prior Webseries and backstory off-season movies they've run, so I may not have QUITE everything in my graymatter. I'm just really glad I DID finally get around to watching "Face of the Enemy" when I did, since it ended up playing what I feel was a really BIG part in adding to Gaeta's mental state that pushed him over the edge to deciding to lead a mutiny.
Jeff

I was thinking about the Gaeta/Starbuck exchange, too. Perhaps it was a planned meeting, she just happened to be there and the entire conversation was meant to piss her off in order to get her to leave. Once she was gone, Gaeta was then able to review the plans for their insurrection.

I rewatched the last episode last night with my wife (who hadn't seen it yet) and she brought up a good question - why did the President allow Baltar to come with her at the end? They didn't need him. Perhaps we are just to assume that they brokered a deal to get him off Galactica in exchange for the use of the radio? Or perhaps the ship was really for him (after all, the chief set it up, right?) And perhaps it was incoming when the president made her way down to Baltar's camp, and then SHE requested to go with?

Any thoughts?

I rewatched the last episode last night with my wife (who hadn't seen it yet) and she brought up a good question - why did the President allow Baltar to come with her at the end? They didn't need him. Perhaps we are just to assume that they brokered a deal to get him off Galactica in exchange for the use of the radio? Or perhaps the ship was really for him (after all, the chief set it up, right?) And perhaps it was incoming when the president made her way down to Baltar's camp, and then SHE requested to go with?

Any thoughts?

It was the other way around...Tyrol got the ride for Baltar...they let the president come along.

It was the other way around...Tyrol got the ride for Baltar...they let the president come along.

Beat me to it. The ride was for Baltar by his followers. Luckly for them they had not beef at the time with the president.

I just finished watching the webisodes with the Gaeta storyline. I'll tell you, I'm very unhappy that this was not included as part of the current season. The least they could have done was provide some indication as to how important the revelations in those webisodes were to understanding what was going on with the character. Bad move by the producers. Better marketing was needed.

I always wonder if they did it because it shows Gaeta as being Bi?

I always wonder if they did it because it shows Gaeta as being Bi?

I thought they did to sell advertising to that rise of the lycans movie ;)

I think it cleared up what was suspected...Baltar accused Gaeta of being a traitor along time ago...than alluded to it in this ep...so it's not out of the blue...the webisodes just make it crystal clear...

someone said on another forum that on the podcast revealed that they filmed the webisodes after everything else was done. so my guess is people on/near the show complained about him turning out of the blue and made the webi's to explain it after the fact.

Well, I guess it's time to watch the webisodes now. I avoided them based on certain comments I had read. Mainly, I didn't want to see any spoilers from what's still left to come. From glancing ever so briefly at some of the recent comments here, I think it's safe now :D

It occurred to me this morning that maybe Gaeta and Baltar's little secret has to do with that nuke Gaius gave to Gina. The courier was a guy from an earlier resistance group (they wanted to make peace with the Cylons). He was in the brig, Adama and Roslin finally agreed to let him go, and Baltar gave him the case with the nuke in it to deliver to Gina (who somehow had become one of its leaders in the few short months after she escaped from the Pegasus).

Some people wondered how a nuke could be smuggled off Galactica under the nose of all their radiological sensors. Felix was in a position to see to it that the ship departing with the nuke didn't raise any alarms. This was before New Caprica, and Gaeta still liked and admired Baltar. Not out of the question that he might have done him a favor.

To be fair, I wouldn't call Cally or Kat secondary characters. Well, not compared to Laird, the marine Adama shot, that sunshine boy, Hoshi, Jaffe, and a whole list of folks whose name we know but have never really had that much to say.

Laird has a backstory. He counts as secondary, even if largely because I don't like using the word tertiary in a sentence.

Laird has a backstory. He counts as secondary, even if largely because I don't like using the word tertiary in a sentence.

Could someone please describe Laird to me and his part in this episode? Danged if I can't place him. :o But I'm godsdamn pissed at Racetrack! :eek: :mad:

Could someone please describe Laird to me and his part in this episode? Danged if I can't place him. :o But I'm godsdamn pissed at Racetrack! :eek: :mad:

He's the civilian who became the Chief for the Pegasus. And the one Zarek killed with a wrench.

Something else I noticed while re-watching season 1...the big Asian dude who walked out with Starbuck after her confrontation with Gaeta was in one of the early episodes. Maybe they really are bringing back all the extras. :p And I had forgotten that Starbuck really did give Hot Dog his name.

Something else I noticed while re-watching season 1...the big Asian dude who walked out with Starbuck after her confrontation with Gaeta was in one of the early episodes.

That guy's been in quite a few episodes. I don't think he's ever had a speaking part, though. I guess he's what you could call a permanent extra.

That guy's been in quite a few episodes. I don't think he's ever had a speaking part, though. I guess he's what you could call a permanent extra.

Probably just a guy in the local acting community around Vancouver. With all the shows filming there, they've probably got a fairly large and vibrant local group of thespians. LOST has the same sort of folks, although they've been getting killed off at a dizzying pace lately. :p

That guy's been in quite a few episodes. I don't think he's ever had a speaking part, though. I guess he's what you could call a permanent extra.

Thanks. Now my OCD is gonna kick in and I'm going to be looking for him everywhere. :p

Curious, what ever happened to Bulldog (the one who escaped from the cylons in a raider)? He's somewhere in the fleet, right?

Curious, what ever happened to Bulldog (the one who escaped from the cylons in a raider)? He's somewhere in the fleet, right?

Sad thing is, Bulldog finally has an explanation for how an old man with one-third his muscle mass kicked his butt. Bulldog could appear for ten seconds, yuck it up with Saul about, "OK, now I get it..." and then be summarily slaughtered like all the other non-primary characters.

Can someone explain Baltars reference to his secret with Gaeta that was sealed with some special pen? I for the life of me do not remember any such thing. Thx.

Can someone explain Baltars reference to his secret with Gaeta that was sealed with some special pen? I for the life of me do not remember any such thing. Thx.

Me neither, Snatch.

Those who seem to "get this" seem to believe this is a reference to what was discussed between Gaeta and the Number 8 in Webisode 9 of "Face of the Enemy," BUT Gaeta wasn't CONSCIOUSLY aware he was doing anything that was betraying his friends in those acts, even though she implied to him that "at some level" he HAD to know what he was REALLY doing.

Either way, he was never shown doing that in the presence of Baltar in the Webseries, and I don't remember ever seeing him doing that during that season. I get the impression there's some yet-to-be-aired flashbacks that Baltar's referring to -- perhaps something for which Gaeta feels SO guilty he's turned that guilt into rage?
Jeff

I think the "special pen" may be the one with which Felix stabbed Baltar in the neck.

I think the "special pen" may be the one with which Felix stabbed Baltar in the neck.

I had forgotten about that whole thing until your post, but I think you're right. Can someone post that exchange?

I think the "special pen" may be the one with which Felix stabbed Baltar in the neck.

That's right. It was the pen they both used to sign the death warrants on New Caprica (remember the whisper between them back in Baltar's holding cell? A reminder.) Gotta' love how they're tying everything together now. It's the pen that went into Baltar's neck (which gave us a sneak peak into Gaeta's id). It's also the pen that Baltar used to write his "prison manifesto". That pen is the Forrest Gump of BSG; it's gotten around. :D