Battlestar Galactica on SciFi HD - Season 4 [Text View] - Page 35

TyrantII

03-09-09, 09:29 AM

Ah, but that's where the wanker conspiracy theories come into play. They showed Florida at the end of S3, but they did NOT show it, or anything else recognizable, when the fleet arrived at Earth. Not even the moon or the constellations, although Gaeta said they matched. Then there are those who are convinced beyond a doubt that the Cylon civil war battle took place in the vicinity of "our" Jupiter because of a brief glimpse of Orion at one point. You can't convince those people that the FX people just went with something at hand. No, they must have intentionally shown that, you see.

Same people that will argue how someone got the design specs of a (imaginary and non functional) warp engine wrong from one show to the next. Moore has already said he cares less about the minute, hyper focused details, and more about his characters and their progression.

It's one of the reasons for these slower, plot intensive episodes. Hell, we've gone a season now with very little FX and tech usage.

Moore says it's Earth, then it's earth. I don't see the need to look for more questions on top of those we already have when we already have the answer.

Not really. I'm just trying to guess the endgame. And my endgame has them finding our Earth. They did show North America in the season 3 finale, but they showed us nothing of the like when they actually reached Earth. There'd be absolutely no debate had they shown us even a little something to indicate that what they found was the same as what they showed us from season 3.

If I remember correctly, they showed a brilliant blue water planet, but masked with clouds. My guess was the thing that they were hiding was the fact, as Adama has said, it was nothing but a "burnt out cinder". The damage on Earth from Nuclear war seemed much more prevalent then Caprica, but they hid that till the end of the episode / and mainly the next season. they were not hiding the fact that it was Earth, but that it was destroyed and uninhabitable.

Both during that finale moment, and leading up to the next season, people were wondering if, and how they'd live on the planet. Well, we got our answer.

It's Earth in the BSG universe, but not during our time period obviously. I don't really care if it's meant to point to a cosmic origin of humanity and colonization of Earth, or some kind of reconnection with Earth as the original home planet, because it's just not relevant to the end game from the looks of it.

Sure interesting, but again, don't hold you're breath because you will be disappointed with that theory.

gwsat

03-09-09, 10:35 AM

Shatner's best work, IMO, came in that early Twilight Zone episode with the monster tearing up an airplane wing and The Shat was the only one who could see it (later re-made with John Lithgow in the movie), and of course, James Tiberius Kirk. He was fabulous as Kirk in the original series. By the time the movies came around, he had apparently decided to let himself go to pot; didn't look the part anymore. I'm sure I'm going to hate the actor who plays "young Kirk" in the upcoming movie. Nobody can replace The Shat.
I saw a preview for the Star Trek remake yesterday and was underwhelmed by what I saw of Chris Pine, the young pretty boy who plays Kirk. I have a lot of hope for Zachary Quinto, though. He plays Spock and both looks and sounds amazingly like Leonard Nimoy, the original Spock. Quinto has done excellent work in Heroes as the evil but tortured Sylar.

michaeltscott

03-09-09, 11:40 AM

Moore says it's Earth, then it's earth. I don't see the need to look for more questions on top of those we already have when we already have the answer.That's the thing--I can find no evidence online that he said that. If he'd said precisely that it's the same Earth that we know and love, someone would have quoted him in context. In the only interview transcript I can find where he said something like that (which I linked to here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15996305#post15996305) in response to you saying pretty much the same thing), he states that the 13th Colony found the planet and named it Earth. (His response was to a multi-part question which also asked whether it's the only Earth that we'll see and his answer doesn't respond to that--if I'd been interviewing him I'd have pressed him on the point). You're one of the people who anecdotally claims that he said that, as I used to, but can you point to some evidence of that?

Someone here claims that he said it in a podcast, but it would be torture to listen to the podcasts to verify that.

I can't see where it's particularly important to the plot (unless moob's theory of them finding the Earth we live on by the end of the story is correct), but it is intriguing for some of us :).

Iteki

03-09-09, 12:10 PM

Yaknow, funny thing about Shatner... UNTIL Star Trek TNG came out, I was SUCH a Shatner fan for Star Trek (afterwards I quickly came to view the original series as rather hokey, but STILL way ahead of its time).

However, in the intervening years I came to view Shatner as a rather LIMITED actor... Then came "Boston Legal" and the man simply BLEW ME AWAY!

He earned TWO Emmys for the role of Denny Crane (technically the first was on the final season of "The Practice")... And THEN he got really creative with his Priceline commercials and I came to view even THEM as highly creative late-life Shatner.

I think his work on "Boston Legal" and even the Priceline commercials FAR exceeded what he did on "T.J. Hooker" or that reality series he hosted -- or even any of the Star Trek movies... It seems Shatner after 70 was his BEST WORK.
Jeff

His music is high comedy as well...and he knows it. It actually becomes good when you realize he knows how bad it is. If that makes any sense. he did a cover of Common People that CRACKS ME UP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKbt3wRsZYw&feature=related).

ec2546

03-09-09, 04:30 PM

It's one of the reasons for these slower, plot intensive episodes. Hell, we've gone a season now with very little FX and tech usage.
Yep. They either conserved their resources for the final episodes or the writers' strike was a bigger wrench in the works than we realize. All that will come out in due time.

I'm glad to see SciFi is airing a mini-marathon on Friday the 20th. I just found out that my recording of "Someone to Watch Over Me" is fubar. Can't have that. :eek:

JeffAHayes

03-09-09, 04:36 PM

His music is high comedy as well...and he knows it. It actually becomes good when you realize he knows how bad it is. If that makes any sense. he did a cover of Common People that CRACKS ME UP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKbt3wRsZYw&feature=related).

I haven't specifically listened to any of Shatner's music, BUT after it was originally HIGHLY criticized as being COMPLETELY TERRIBLE, I DID hear or read somewhere along the lines that he HAD done it as "a lark" and knowing it was "bad, and deliberately bad." I THINK he even did some of it on "Boston Legal" and maybe on the Priceline commercials, with people making fun of it and him essentially "laughing at himself."

That's another thing that's given me greatly renewed respect for William Shatner late in his life -- the fact that he doesn't seem to take himself very seriously and appears to have a great ability to laugh at himself -- something I think the very thin skins of many in the business makes impossible for them.
Jeff

petergaryr

03-09-09, 04:48 PM

Oh yeah, it's a Monday. We've moved from BSG to discussing the "music" of Shatner.

Friday can't get here soon enough :)

JeffAHayes

03-09-09, 04:59 PM

Sorry. I didn't mean to get so far off-topic (not all by myself, I might add ;) ).

Wouldn't it be great, however, if BSG figured out a way to work Shatner into one of the final two episodes??? Maybe he could be one of the "Lords of Kobol?" :p He could be singing one of his songs, even :eek:

Or maybe they'll end up at the center of the galaxy and find some powerful entity claiming to be "God" who turns out to be a big fraud? :p

There, now, I think with THAT we've just about hit EVERY POSSIBLE far-out scenario for the series finale... or HAVE WE? :D:rolleyes::cool:

SkyLite

03-09-09, 05:07 PM

If Shatner gets any bigger, he could be the lost colony. :D

petergaryr

03-09-09, 05:18 PM

...

Or maybe they'll end up at the center of the galaxy and find some powerful entity claiming to be "God" who turns out to be a big fraud? :p

Not that could still be on the table (unless you are thinking the entity would be played by Shatner ;))

moob

03-09-09, 05:18 PM

I can't see where it's particularly important to the plot (unless moob's theory of them finding the Earth we live on by the end of the story is correct), but it is intriguing for some of us :).

Indeed. I won't be disappointed if I'm completely wrong, because as I said, it's just a wild guess. But the possibility of the season 3 Earth still being out there is very real. If they wanted to they could have shown us more of the planet in the 4.5 premiere, but they didn't.

If Shatner gets any bigger, he could be the lost colony. :D

I think his hair is #7.

SkyLite

03-09-09, 05:29 PM

Not that could still be on the table (unless you are thinking the entity would be played by Shatner ;))

Just as long as he doesn't direct this time. ;)

Wink to Jeff on that one.

dcowboy7

03-09-09, 05:31 PM

I just found out that my recording of "Someone to Watch Over Me" is fubar. Can't have that. :eek:

so basically a fubar recording of a fubar episode.

moob

03-09-09, 05:34 PM

so basically a fubar recording of a fubar episode.

Someone To Watch Over Me was fantastic.

dcowboy7

03-09-09, 05:38 PM

Someone To Watch Over Me was fantastic.

tomatoe tamatoe.

hassenfeffer incorporated ?

SkyLite

03-09-09, 05:47 PM

tomatoe tamatoe.

Potato, Patato....

Let's call the whole thing off.

JeffAHayes

03-09-09, 05:53 PM

Just as long as he doesn't direct this time. ;)

Wink to Jeff on that one.

NO FRACKIN' KIDDING!!! I thought letting Shatner DIRECT that movie proved once and for all he WASN'T a director! That HAD to be the all-time WORST "Star Trek" movie! :eek:

His quirky sense of humor is much better when SOMEONE ELSE is in control of it!
Jeff

dad1153

03-09-09, 06:03 PM

Mo Ryan previews this Thursday's TV Guide dual covers/story of the series finale of "Battlestar Galactica": http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/03/the-battlestar-cast-looks-to-the-past-and-ron-moore-teases-the-ending.html#more Tons of quotes from the cast plus RDM teases 'the ending.'

http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/.a/6a00d834518cc969e2011168ce396b970c-200wihttp://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/.a/6a00d834518cc969e201127943286728a4-200wi

Also Mo Ryan's interview with "Island in a Stream of Stars" writer Michael Taylor is up: http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/03/battlestar-galactica-island-stream-stars-taylor-.html#more.

dcowboy7

03-09-09, 06:20 PM

Mo Ryan previews this Thursday's TV Guide dual covers/story of the series finale of "Battlestar Galactica".

so now does frank costanza have to get both covers ?

ec2546

03-09-09, 11:13 PM

so basically a fubar recording of a fubar episode.

Perhaps, but I want something to tide me over until the DVDs are released. Warts and all. FWIW I didn't mind Someone to Watch Over Me. IMO that's not even close to the low points of season 4.5.

JeffAHayes

03-09-09, 11:22 PM

oH COME ON, cowboy, NUTTIN' 'bout BSG is FUBAR -- NUTTIN!!! :cool:

SkyLite

03-09-09, 11:27 PM

No one saw my tag below. (at the bottom of the entire page).

I was kind of proud of that one. :)

JeffAHayes

03-09-09, 11:38 PM

Ummmmmmm, I'm just a bit LOST here, SkyLite... to which tag at the bottom of the entire page do you refer?

If it's the Dorothy Parker quote, I've been noticing that since your first post here -- and enjoying it. Other than that, of what else do you speak, oh wise Lite of the great Jersey?
Jeff

SkyLite

03-10-09, 11:41 AM

Tags...

At the bottom of the page. Those can be fun.

Not MY tag line.

dcowboy7

03-10-09, 03:10 PM

ec2546

03-10-09, 03:59 PM

Tags...

At the bottom of the page. Those can be fun.
OK, I don't get it and I'm probably not the only one. I see where it says "cylon o ship of state". So what? I don't think it's cute, funny, or even remotely relevant to anything. Not to these discussions, not to the show, not to this forum or the threads that are in it.

What am I missing?

Last Week Viewers:i know there are reruns, online, & other ways to watch but it just seems funny galactica gets beat in the ratings by a cartoon, action figures & a ditz.
Why does that surprise you? The reason most crap is on TV is because people watch it, sometimes for no apparent reason. That's why many of us treasure really good shows like BSG and a few others when they come along. The best shows IMO never get the highest ratings. For that you have to look at Dancing With The Retards and American Idle. People are frakking stupid, dude. Get used to it.

Steve Scherrer

03-10-09, 04:04 PM

KEEPING UP WITH THE KARDASHIANS - 1,656,000

Is this like the Osbournes, but with Guldukat and family?

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c90/Etienne_72772/200px-Guldukat.jpg

petergaryr

03-10-09, 04:22 PM

Last Week Viewers:

STAR WARS: CLONE WARS -2,499,000
ROBOT CHICKEN - 2,356,000
KEEPING UP KARDASHIANS - 1,656,000
BATTLSTR GALACTICA (ORIG) - 1,568,000

i know there are reruns, online, & other ways to watch but it just seems funny galactica gets beat in the ratings by a cartoon, action figures & a ditz.

To appreciate BSG requires an attention span longer than 5 minutes, and the ability to process situations involving complex moral, social, political and religious ideas and ideals.

Those other shows require that the TV be turned on.

SkyLite

03-10-09, 04:40 PM

OK, I don't get it and I'm probably not the only one. I see where it says "cylon o ship of state". So what? I don't think it's cute, funny, or even remotely relevant to anything. Not to these discussions, not to the show, not to this forum or the threads that are in it.

What am I missing?

<snip>

Possibly a sense of humor??

michaeltscott

03-10-09, 04:47 PM

Is this like the Osbournes, but with Guldukat and family?[/IMG]To pick a nit (and exhibit extreme geekiness :D), I believe that's "Gul Dukat", where "Gul" was his Cardassian military rank.

petergaryr

03-10-09, 04:58 PM

To pick a nit (and exhibit extreme geekiness :D), I believe that's "Gul Dukat", where "Gul" was his Cardassian military rank.

It is a wise, secure man who can admit to that level of knowledge (....and yes, "Gul" is his military rank---actually command officer rank).

michaeltscott

03-10-09, 05:49 PM

SkyLite

03-10-09, 05:53 PM

Not to mention having to deal with Nurse Ratched.

moob

03-10-09, 06:23 PM

Why does that surprise you? The reason most crap is on TV is because people watch it, sometimes for no apparent reason. That's why many of us treasure really good shows like BSG and a few others when they come along. The best shows IMO never get the highest ratings. For that you have to look at Dancing With The Retards and American Idle. People are frakking stupid, dude. Get used to it.

Plus a huge chunk of BSG viewers DVR the show. I have no idea what the newer numbers are, but for the first 4.5 episode, wasn't there like a 700,000+ increase in viewers when they added +7 numbers?

And I can't make this ish up...BSG at the United Nations: http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/03/battlestar-galactica-united-nations.html#comments

"Lost"

03-10-09, 06:55 PM

I'm glad nobody watches it, if it had a wide viewership, this show would be dragged out to no end. At least we get a decisive ending, I think we will.

GrouchoDude

03-10-09, 07:37 PM

I'm constantly astounded at the ratings for this show. Most of the really smart people I know not only watch it, but love it. It gives you so much to chew on after the hour ends, and not a lot of television can make that claim. Guess there just aren't a lot of those kind of people; that shouldn't surprise anyone, I guess. But then there's the kick-ass military action quotient of the show as well. That should draw in another whole demographic. And then there's the sci-fi geek contingent. More people watch 'Eureka' on Sci-Fi than BSG; does that make any sense? But this is the best designed, best looking sci-fi show, with state of the art vfx, that you'll ever find. Then there's the buzz factor, with BSG populating so many TV critics' top-10 lists. And there's that Peabody Award (which the Sci-Fi Network basically ignored. Idiots). Never being nominated for any of the top Emmy awards was a crime, but maybe that will get rectified for this last season.

It's mystifying, that's all it is. Something has to be wrong with the Nielsen sampling with regard to this show, doesn't there?

michaeltscott

03-10-09, 08:52 PM

One of its main problems is that it's serialized. Serialized shows have the hardest time maintaining audience share, because no matter how good you are, you will lose old audience as people don't have time or don't have recorders and can't watch at the time that you're on or whatever. It's very difficult to pick up new audience because it's hard for people to jump into the middle of the plot. Very few folks are going to be willing to sit through 3.5 previous seasons to start watching this (though we've had a few such people post here :)).

JeffAHayes

03-10-09, 08:53 PM

DS9 was probably my favorite Star Trek series. Most of the others made the Federation out to be a uniformly perfect society, with Federation starships exploring the wild, unsettled frontier. DS9 was set on the tense boderlands, protected by a Starfleet presence in a space station built by the former, non-human, non-Federation occupiers, ceded to the Federation by recent treaty, vacated in exchange for, in part, other Federation settled territories whose evicted occupants were none too happy with the deal. It featured tense, complex political intrigue with not just struggles good versus evil, but conflicts involving peoples who weren't necessarily either.

It's notable that RDM wrote 30 episodes and was co-executive producer of most of the others.

On the negative side, Avery Brooks was guilty of a lot of over-acting, and his Captain Sisko was perhaps a bit too tortured. Of course, being the tool of (and having been created by) the "wormhole aliens" was undoubtably something of a trial :).

Wow, Mike, you wrote a post that looks like I WROTE IT, lol.

In fact, the oft-considered-very-EVIL Gul Dukat on that show ended up being my favorite character... He was SUCH a complex character... Talk about a character that TRULY DEFIES the concept of GOOD vs. EVIL as he was simultaneously VERY EVIL and VERY GOOD... The last couple of seasons, when it was revealed that he was the Colonel's father, and it became clear how much he loved her, it was truly heartbreaking to see some of the internal conflicts that he had been forced to face throughout his life and his career -- and continued to face -- and then, at the end, that VERY EVIL Louise Fletcher character (in the guise of a VERY GOOD "Religious Leader") used him yet again, as her pawn.

I KNOW this is off-topic, but I think DS9 was the last Sci-Fi show to approach the level of drama, intrigue and "making you think" and "shades of gray" that BSG does.
Jeff

P.S. I KNOW I've told you folks I'd NEVER buy seasons or a COMPLETE SERIES on DVD or Blu-Ray because of the COST, but I just came close last week... I went into my local Circuit City 5 days before "The End" and while browsing through a bin of DVDs @ 70% discount saw they had ENTIRE SEASONS of "Stargate: SG1" at that price. They were sold out of seasons 5, 6, 8. 9 & 10, but I got 1, 2, 3 4 & 7 @ $12, each, down from their original price of $39.99... I just couldn't pass up THAT deal... Not that I know WHEN I'll ever see 'em! I STILL haven't even seen the second or third "Lord of the Rings" movies, even though I caught ALL THREE on sale for about $12, each, at Wal-Mart, Christmas 2007, lol. I KNOW where they are, but they're STILL in the shrinkwrap. It's all I can do to catch up on my time-shifts, lol.

ec2546

03-10-09, 11:19 PM

Possibly a sense of humor??

My sense of humor is quite intact, thank you. I just don't think "cylon o ship of state" is particularly witty. Is it a pun? A play on words that only makes sense to a stoner? A coded message to the mothership? It might be funny to the writers at SNL.

Oh wait, I think I get it now... "Sail on, oh ship of state". Still not funny. I want some of what you're smoking though.

SkyLite

03-10-09, 11:35 PM

Oh. I see you edited your entry, yet again.

If you were well read, maybe you would get the reference.

Just what, exactly, is your problem?

SkyLite

03-10-09, 11:40 PM

Pun....

Cylon, O Ship Of State;

O Ship of State

Thou, too, sail on, O Ship of State!
Sail on, O Union, strong and great!
Humanity with all its fears,
With all the hopes of future years,
Is hanging breathless on thy fate!
We know what Master laid thy keel,
What Workmen wrought thy ribs of steel,
Who made each mast, and sail, and rope,
What anvils rang, what hammers beat,
In what a forge and what a heat
Were shaped the anchors of thy hope!
Fear not each sudden sound and shock,
'Tis of the wave and not the rock;
'Tis but the flapping of the sail,
And not a rent made by the gale!
In spite of rock and tempest's roar,
In spite of false lights on the shore,
Sail on, nor fear to breast the sea!
Our hearts, our hopes, are all with thee.
Our hearts, our hopes, our prayers, our tears,
Our faith triumphant o'er our fears,
Are all with thee, -are all with thee!

Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

It seems to fit BSG in so many ways.

Closed Captioning for the dumb****ed inclined.

"Lost"

03-10-09, 11:55 PM

closed captioning for the dumb****ed inclined.lmao

SkyLite

03-11-09, 02:08 AM

I don't think I did, but I'm very sorry if I derailed anything anyone had to say.

We're gonna have some fun, soon and I can't wait.

:)

JeffAHayes

03-11-09, 02:54 AM

Methinks we're having fun right now... some folks just don't enjoy themselves as much as others... but I agree there be MUCH MORE FUN to follow Friday!
Jeff

dcowboy7

03-11-09, 01:31 PM

if they dont start blowing things up on this the next to next to last episode they better see who is skimming off the sfx budget.

GrouchoDude

03-11-09, 01:35 PM

Oh, ah'm shur thar'll be plenty o' stuff blowin' up real good this week, yesiree. Yee-hah!

Um, so say we all.

dcowboy7

03-11-09, 03:41 PM

Oh, ah'm shur thar'll be plenty o' stuff blowin' up real good this week, yesiree. Yee-hah!

Um, so say we all.

hope yer right....my lil sis wouldve liked the last few eps....kinda like watchin "all my children". :D

chris_h2

03-12-09, 11:35 AM

Oh, you guys crack me up!

philw1776

03-12-09, 06:22 PM

And I can't make this ish up...BSG at the United Nations: http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/03/battlestar-galactica-united-nations.html#comments

Perhaps they could do the entire world a favor and pull a Tom Zarek solution on all the chattering UN folk?

But that would be wrong.

petergaryr

03-12-09, 06:41 PM

Perhaps they could do the entire world a favor and pull a Tom Zarek solution on all the chattering UN folk?

But that would be wrong.

At first I thought the link was a joke...especially with Whoopi moderating...but it's serious!

It's a sad day when the U.N. recognizes BSG, the viewers in droves don't. Where are the Cylons when you need them?

Iteki

03-12-09, 07:24 PM

At first I thought the link was a joke...especially with Whoopi moderating...but it's serious!

It's a sad day when the U.N. recognizes BSG, the viewers in droves don't. Where are the Cylons when you need them?

They are on the way (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmanned_aerial_vehicle)

JeffAHayes

03-12-09, 11:09 PM

The panel will be moderated by "Battlestar" fan Whoopi Goldberg.

The invitation-only panel will take place at 7 p.m. March 17 in the U.N.'s Economic and Social Council Chamber, three days before the Sci Fi show's series finale.

UPDATE: A Sci Fi representative says that the network will record the session and a transcript will be made. "Once the content becomes available, we will let the fans know," the representative said.

Oh I GUARANTEE YOU that when the Series Box Set finally DOES become available, that U.N. conference will be PROMINENTLY DISPLAYED as "BONUS CONTENT" on the front cover! ;)

SkyLite

03-12-09, 11:30 PM

I never could figure out Guinan and the Mark Twain episode of TNG. I've even tried the Nexus, but it doesn't compute.

JeffAHayes

03-12-09, 11:52 PM

Guinan was one of my favorite characters and I just LOVED the fact that she had "hobnobbed" with Sam Clemmens, and he seemed like JUST THE TYPE of "cool dude" from the 19th century Guinan WOULD HAVE "hobnobbed" with. :cool:

GrouchoDude

03-13-09, 08:47 AM

Oh I GUARANTEE YOU that when the Series Box Set finally DOES become available, that U.N. conference will be PROMINENTLY DISPLAYED as "BONUS CONTENT" on the front cover! ;)

Doubtful. Dude, they didn't even pimp the frakkin' Peabody Award they received after their second season, the most respected merit awards in the business. They'll never mention this U.N. conference in the box set, although I think it's kinda' neat.

TyrantII

03-13-09, 09:09 AM

So, looks like the next episode is an hour, and the season/ series finale 2 hours. I thought it was split evenly but apparently not

CPanther95

03-13-09, 09:14 AM

petergaryr

03-13-09, 09:21 AM

thejokell

03-13-09, 10:11 AM

oletheos

03-13-09, 10:14 AM

I never could figure out Guinan and the Mark Twain episode of TNG. I've even tried the Nexus, but it doesn't compute.

couldnt figure out that shes like 600 years old or something and her people sent her on a mission to earth? i thought that was explained in the episode

GrouchoDude

03-13-09, 10:20 AM

Just a heads up that I will likely be avoiding this thread once tonight's episode airs. I usually watch the previews, but I will likely skip them this time - just in case. If there are any issues, spoilers posted, etc. that need to be addressed by a moderator, just report the post or pm Ken or Don.

See you on the other side.....

Wait, lemme get this straight... You're going to watch tonight, but not watch the previews, and then avoid the thread all week because somebody might mention something that happens in the previews? :eek: Dang, now that's dedication! :D

Why don't we just make a "house rule" right now that if anybody wants to mention anything that happens in the previews, put it in spoiler tags...? But then, you might could see it, I guess. Never mind.

Iteki

03-13-09, 10:31 AM

Wait, lemme get this straight... You're going to watch tonight, but not watch the previews, and then avoid the thread all week because somebody might mention something that happens in the previews? :eek: Dang, now that's dedication! :D

Why don't we just make a "house rule" right now that if anybody wants to mention anything that happens in the previews, put it in spoiler tags...? But then, you might could see it, I guess. Never mind.

Doesn't matter, as email notifications strip the tags away and the spoilers are there in the mail. Smart move, CP...not sure I can stay away though. Unless this ep is as uneventful as the last few.

GrouchoDude

03-13-09, 10:41 AM

...not sure I can stay away though. Unless this ep is as uneventful as the last few.

I'd take bets that won't be the case. There will still be some setup for the finale, and probably some more exposition as they tie up loose ends (which I've enjoyed, actually), but the rock is going to roll, count on it. Only 3 hours of BSG left, can that really be? :(

TyrantII

03-13-09, 10:44 AM

yup, I'll be doing the same.

Gods speed, So Say We All!

GrouchoDude

03-13-09, 11:02 AM

jrusnak

03-13-09, 01:35 PM

It's mystifying, that's all it is. Something has to be wrong with the Nielsen sampling with regard to this show, doesn't there?

Sure. But it's the same arguement when they cancelled FARSCAPE because of low ratings, Yet FARSCAPE's lowest ratings were still higher than GALACTICA's! (Not a knock...I enjoyed both series.)

I also remember when NBC aired a few BSG episodes in prime-time. It was the lowest rated performer in it's time slot. Sadly, I predict even more "lowest-common-demoninator" shows from the inexplicably still-employed Bonnie Hammer.

chris_h2

03-13-09, 02:00 PM

No my friends, now is the time to get every crazy idea about the show off your chest and out onto the thread where it can be properly ridiculed. Who's with me?! :p

I'm with you! Say say we... well, okay, so far it's just little ol me. :o

bpeacock22

03-13-09, 02:37 PM

So we get part 1 of the finale tonight and the 2 hour conclusion next week?

FOPA

03-13-09, 03:31 PM

So we get part 1 of the finale tonight and the 2 hour conclusion next week?

I think they are going to re-run tonight's episode before the 2 hr finale next Friday.

I will continue to read the forum, as well. After tonight the dude who is catching up from series one, posts occasionally & gets flamed by some (including me) will most likely be caught up and begin providing his insights. Perhaps we'll learn something from a fresh perspective. Or is that Lost? Anyhow, I am sorry to see this come to an end, but at least it will have an ending and am sure it will be good.

Need to re-watch last weeks episode on my DVR tonight to get into BSG mode. Has been a ritual that I have been enjoying most of this season.

AAF

03-13-09, 04:17 PM

Crazy idea. It's all a dream.

Closing scene:

Kara steps out of Zak Adama's shower back on Caprica and says, "Frack me. I'll never drink that much Ambrosia again!"

humdinger70

03-13-09, 04:18 PM

Once, the finale airs next week, what is the schedule for broadcasting? Do they rerun the episodes or does it just disappear from the schedule?

petergaryr

03-13-09, 04:22 PM

Well, I won't be abandoning my peeps next week, nosirree! I for one am going to stick it out here in the thread, hold down the fort, ask the questions that need asking and spout forth the theories that need, uh, theorizing! Now is not the time to hunker down, cowering in fear. No my friends, now is the time to get every crazy idea about the show off your chest and out onto the thread where it can be properly ridiculed. Who's with me?! :p

So, um, let's just not talk about the previews, 'k? :o

Oh, I'll be here. It's bad enough the series is ending (well, actually a good move says my intellect---the emotions haven't followed yet) but to miss out on all the half-baked theories we all come up with to explain things will be sorely missed.

dad1153

03-13-09, 06:08 PM

From Fredfa's "Hot Off The Press" thread:

TV Q&A
Ron Moore on 'Battlestar' series finale
By James Hibberd, The Hollywood Reporter senior reporter, in his LiveFeed blog, March 13, 2009

Ron Moore is on the verge of joining a rarefied group of showrunners who have successfully pulled off the most ambitious of TV formats: the heavily serialized drama. Part 1 of the series finale of his Peabody Award-winning reimagination of "Battlestar Galactica" on Sci Fi Channel airs tonight.

As with “The Sopranos” and “The Shield,” fans are eagerly anticipating the finale and fretting whether it can live up to their expectations.

Below, Moore talks about the last episode, networks shying away from serials, J.J. Abrams' "Star Trek" remake and the one genre he'd like to tackle next.

THR: How do you think fans will react to the “Battlestar” finale?

Moore: I don’t know. I’m sure there will be a lot of discussion. They have a lot of different expectations for what they think it’s going to be, and a lot of opinions about how it should be. All of us who worked on the finale feel good about it, that this is the ending of the story we wanted to make.

THR: Is there any chance of doing something with these same characters that takes place either before or after this series finale? Or is this It?

Moore: We did a standalone movie called “The Plan.” But there’s no plans to do anything else with the “Galactica” cast.

THR: You constantly have to make creative decisions on the fly on a show. Can you name one thing that – time machine available – you would have done differently?

Moore: There’s a bunch of things here and there. Plot lines and subplots, that’s the cost of doing business. You take risks and go on instinct and you look back and say that paid off and that didn’t.

THR: Anything specific?

Moore: Probably we rushed into the Lee and Duala romance too quickly and didn’t lay the groundwork for that. “Black Market” was an episode I wish I had a second crack at. We probably played around with Lee’s character and his direction a little bit before settling into a good track with him. On the other hand, I don’t know that’s entirely a bad thing, because it added to his quest and trying to figure out his own place on the show.

THR: Watching the recent episode where Ellen and Anders explained the show’s mythology, I wondered about the choice to make four characters cylons. Have you been satisfied with the way that’s played out?

Moore: Yeah, I’ve been satisfied with that.

THR: Universal is developing a “Battlestar” movie with original series creator Glen Larson. How do you feel about that?

Moore: More power to them. I don’t know anything about it; they didn’t talk to me about it. I’ve always said if somebody wanted to do a continuation of the original, that’s fine by me. It doesn’t have anything to do with what we’ve done.

THR: You also have the pilot “Virtuality” at Fox. Last we heard it was being recut. How’s it looking?

Moore: They haven’t officially turned it down, they haven’t officially moved it forward. We’ll just have to wait and see.

THR: Any update on the theatrical remake of “The Thing” you’re writing?

Moore: It’s in development. I’ve done my drafts, they’ve hired a director and we’re just waiting to see if Universal will greenlight it.

THR: As a person who used to write for “Star Trek” shows, what do you think of the new movie, from what you’ve seen?

Moore: I’m very encouraged. I salute them for going back to the beginning and revitalizing it. I think that’s exactly what the franchise needed.

THR: You’re also working on the “Battlestar” prequel series “Caprica,” which you’ve described as a more terrestrial-based drama. Are you concerned “Battlestar” fans will be like, “Where are the space battles?"

Moore: I’m sure there will be a contingent of fans that won’t appreciate it because it doesn’t have those elements, but that’s OK. It was a calculated risk, and we’re hoping to gather fans who don’t traditionally come to this genre as well. There’s a chunk of people out there who hold sci-fi at arm’s length, and this is an opportunity to bring them in. And I think most people who enjoyed “Battlestar” watched it for the character interactions and the stories with the action-adventure components as icing on the cake. They
probably didn’t show up every week hoping something will blow up.

THR: There’s a push among broadcast networks toward close-ended, non-serialized shows -- like crime procedurals -- the idea being that serialized dramas are increasingly high-risk.

Moore: I think they’ve always been high-risk and networks have always had an aversion to it. Network executives generally live in fear, and their fear is always that (the viewer is) going to be confused. It’s unfortunate because some of the greatest shows have been serialized and featured continuing
characters. Audiences of serialized shows tend to become avid and dedicated viewers interested in exploring the show’s universe online and consumers of additional merchandising. I think network executives are somewhat myopic because they go for the easiest answer. “Let's make it tidy and all wrapped-up so the audience doesn't have to remember what happened last week.” The audience is smart. They like catching up on things. They have a wide menu of ways at this point to catch up on shows. It just doesn’t seem like it's the big scary monster a lot of networks would have you believe.

THR: Is there a type of TV show that you haven’t done that you’ve always wanted to do?

Moore: Yeah. I’ve always wanted to do a Western.

THR: A lot of TV showrunners, when asked their favorite shows, list "Battlestar." What shows are you watching right now?

Moore: I tend to watch a lot of "Seinfeld," news programming, "Mad Men" -- and I’m looking forward to "Breaking Bad." I watch Bill Maher, Charlie Rose, "Project Runway" and "Top Chef." I don’t watch a lot of [dramas] other than what I just named, mostly because there’s a part of my brain going ‘how many sets have they used?’ It’s not as entertaining; I get analytical and it becomes work.

THR: Legacy question: Is there anything about sci-fi shows that you think “Galactica” has changed?

Moore: One of the goals going into it (was) we wanted to make a sci-fi show that was relevant and spoke to our times and dealt with real issues that approached the drama in a naturalistic way and made it “real.” If we’re able to define a legacy of asking other shows to do the same in the genre and keep sci fi going in a way that tackles meaningful ideas and challenge audience expectations, I think that would be a great thing.

http://www.thrfeed.com/2009/03/qa-ron-moore-on-battlestar-series-finale.html#more

GrouchoDude

03-13-09, 06:58 PM

Oh, I'll be here. It's bad enough the series is ending (well, actually a good move says my intellect---the emotions haven't followed yet) but to miss out on all the half-baked theories we all come up with to explain things will be sorely missed.

'Atta boy Peter. I knew I could count on you and Chris. ;)

moob

03-13-09, 07:05 PM

Sure. But it's the same arguement when they cancelled FARSCAPE because of low ratings, Yet FARSCAPE's lowest ratings were still higher than GALACTICA's! (Not a knock...I enjoyed both series.)

Indeed. But BSG has/had basically universal critical acclaim, which is something SciFi just couldn't ignore.

Need to re-watch last weeks episode on my DVR tonight to get into BSG mode. Has been a ritual that I have been enjoying most of this season.
I just got done re-watching the entire series. I have to say, season 4 is by far my favourite. Even Sine Qua Non, which I wasn't a huge fan of the first time around, didn't seem so bad when sandwiched between two great episodes. Also, the story seems to flow more naturally. As an example, I know some people couldn't figure out why Chief would vote to leave Galactica, but on the re-watch, they actually set that up in several episodes leading up to it...going all the way back to early 4.0.

And Ill be here. Seems like someone got a stern talking to because the previews haven't been spoilery like they have been before.

JeffAHayes

03-13-09, 08:19 PM

While I'm thrilled that the United Nations has decided to do a Conference about BSG and its themes that parallel real-life events after the series finale, I'm even MORE excited by a mention in the April edition of Discover Magazine, a magazine devoted to REAL science that has never, so far as I know, published any science fiction.

From Page 19 of the April edition, right below a section on FANTASTIC new movies and DVDs about REAL SCIENCE, is the following paragraph, under a little emblem of a TV...

Hearts are heavy at DISCOVER as the final episode of Battlestar Gallactica gets set to air on March 20. We're big fans of Gallactica here (we almost made watching the DVDs of earlier seasons mandatory for incoming interns), and we're going to miss what has become one of the best science fiction productions ever. Complex, allegorical story lines that matured over the show's four seasons, combined with convincing visuals and a terrific cast, made Gallactica compelling viewing, even if there was an occasional dud episode along the way. Details of the finale have been closely guarded, but insiders privy to the show's secrets assure us that it's going to be surprising and satisfying. Considering what we've viewed of this season so far, we believe them -- just so long as the screen doesn't go to black in the middle of the final scene.
Stephen Cass

Discover is a "pure science" magazine published monthly and the ONLY science magazine to which I subscribe, which is NOT to say it's the only one worth subscribing to... There are others likely equally or even more "worthy" of your readership, and the subscriptions are not "cheap," but I find that Discover seems to stay on the cutting edge and runs articles that keep modern science alive and lively, full of bright and beautiful photography. Their journalists interview the REAL PEOPLE involved with the science, and they put enough hard facts and charts and whatnot in there to keep it "a little bit geeky," but NOT SO MUCH that it's too hard to follow -- yet neither is it dumbed down to the point that someone like me, college-educated and then some, isn't both inspired and educated by every article in every issue... and there's always info for how to learn more.

That said, these folks writing such a paragraph with such high praise of BSG was, to me, absolutely BREATHTAKING! I think it means even more than what the U.N. is doing because, frankly, folks probably take Discover Magazine more seriously than the U.N. these days (sad fact, but true... and that's another story -- the U.N. could be TRULY GREAT, but it has A LOT OF WORK TO DO to get there, and I really don't see it heading that direction at present).

BSG, on the other hand, well, in less than 2 hours we'll get to see just HOW GREAT it can get! Can hardly wait! ;)
Jeff

"Lost"

03-13-09, 09:06 PM

Dam! Soon there wont be any reason to watch the Scifi network. This Vampire show sucks, other than the hot chick, they should just replay Stargate.

JeffAHayes

03-13-09, 09:46 PM

Dam! Soon there wont be any reason to watch the Scifi network. This Vampire show sucks, other than the hot chick, they should just replay Stargate.

Ummmmmm, watch yourself there, my dear friend-in-TV-land... You need to give Moonlight more time than just an episode or two... It was an EXCELLENT show and I was VERY upset when CBS didn't renew it after just one season.

Remember, if people judged BSG by just a single episode or two, and happened to tune in on one of those "dud" episodes, they could say IT "sucks," too, and we all know there's nothing further from the truth. I DID have a few "issues" with Moonlight -- chief among them, the fact that although sunlight was only harmful to vampires and only deadly with extended exposure, the star always just held his hand over his face when he had to be out in the daytime, rather than just wearing a big HAT, which made VERY LITTLE sense to me, lol... But overall, the show was very good -- especially as it progressed.

Fifteen minutes now until those of you who watch the FIRST showing of BSG get to see if our payoff has come to pass... I won't get to see until midnight, Eastern, but I'll be plenty happy when I do... My WMC will be recording at 10 either way, too! Oughta be GREAT!
Jeff

"Lost"

03-13-09, 10:16 PM

CBS didn't renew it after just one season.
Well thank God, they do know what they're doing after all. :)
Ive watched several episodes, and still it sucks, not into fantasy. It doesn't belong on Scifi, they should throw it on the Thriller network, along with Buffy and Angel, barf.

michaeltscott

03-13-09, 10:19 PM

Some 90% of everything ever fielded by Sci Fi has sucked mightily. Moonlight is hardly the worst of it.

scanpa

03-13-09, 10:19 PM

Different first 18 min of BSG.

SkyLite

03-13-09, 10:23 PM

Tuning in, now that I can bypass commercials.

JimP

03-13-09, 10:38 PM

These backstories better be leading up to something big.

scanpa

03-13-09, 10:58 PM

They are. The Final Episode!

LOL

Lee is back in Uniform. About time.

loco

03-13-09, 11:04 PM

I loved seeing them on Caprica. It gave a nice perspective on these characters' lives before the holocaust.

The scene where everyone made their choice was very moving. Nice touch having the very frail Roslin show up. Baltar - wow, dude, you suck.

petergaryr

03-13-09, 11:10 PM

Don S

03-13-09, 11:11 PM

I felt kind of cheated by this episode.

Only 3 total hours of BSG left ever between tonight and next week, and IMO they wasted most of this one hour with some back stories that - while somewhat relevant - could have easily been told earlier in the season or show. I'm sure next week will be great, but it seems they almost wasted an hour tonight. There were so many possibilities for the last few episodes. I just can't see value in these back stories where we learned very little new about the characters - Baltar was self-absorbed(shocking), Kara was with Lee's brother, nothing new. Roslin experienced a tragedy, but it just seemed out of place, or irrelevant this close to the end of the show. Even if they tie this all into the finale, it still could have been shown earlier in the year or in the series, IMO.

Here's hoping for a great finale to a fantastic series ..

SkyLite

03-13-09, 11:17 PM

JimP

03-13-09, 11:29 PM

My favorite 30 seconds had to be when Baltar was trying to persuade young Adama to give him a voice in the new government and Adama talked him down. Baltar said, I wouldn't trust me either.

Did anybody notice if Baltar volunteered to go on the mission?

loco

03-13-09, 11:29 PM

...oh, yeah. Fully admit to almost losing it when she appeared on deck.

I was in tears through that whole scene, as soon as people started moving back and forth across that line. :o

loco

03-13-09, 11:34 PM

"Lost"

03-13-09, 11:42 PM

Well it looks like the end of line is, In a Black hole. BRILLIANT! :mad::rolleyes:

acksnay

03-13-09, 11:54 PM

0:09 into the show and Baltar let loose with a very clearly enunciated mis-"Frak" which somehow got past the censors.

RolandOG

03-13-09, 11:58 PM

0:09 into the show and Baltar let loose with a very clearly enunciated mis-"Frak" which somehow got past the censors.

Damn, you mean I wasn't hearing things? He really said that? lol

Bryan_P

03-14-09, 12:20 AM

Damn, you mean I wasn't hearing things? He really said that? lol

Me three.

And I agree by and large with the flashback sentiments.... it really seemed out of left field and barely relevant. I hope it ties things together nicely with next week's two hours, but I was pretty confused by those scenes in general. Maybe they're just going over my head, especially the thing with Lee and the bird. Was the bird supposed to be analogous to Baltar?

rto

03-14-09, 12:50 AM

0:09 into the show and Baltar let loose with a very clearly enunciated mis-"Frak" which somehow got past the censors.

He sure did. I backed up the DVR several times to verify.

loco

03-14-09, 01:12 AM

A bird trapped in your house is an omen of death.

JeffAHayes

03-14-09, 01:27 AM

He sure did. I backed up the DVR several times to verify.

Yep, I just checked on my WMC recording -- exactly 9:28 into it, in the middle of arguing with his father, Gaius says, "I need this like a f*cking hole in the head!" :eek: And I, too, played it back SEVERAL TIMES, at full volume, listening VERY carefully... It's verified, someone slipped the REAL "f-word" past the censors.

Also, just a few seconds before that he used the word "bloody" as a swear word, which is NOTHING to Americans, but a major swear word to the British. I really haven't paid attention as to whether he's been using that during prior shows or not, but if not, THAT was likely a slip-of-the-tongue in the midst of a VERY frenetic scene.

A scene like that one is SO fast-paced and full of dialogue they may have had to do several takes to get it "right," and perhaps that was as "right" as they could get it. Even so, I'm fairly certain someone either just MISSED the "f-word" or else whoever was in charge of that decided to see if they could "sneak it past," because that could have EASILY been re-dubbed as "fracking."

In replaying the beginning, I noticed that pigeon fluttering around a ceiling yet again, as one of the ESTABLISHING SHOTS for Caprica, so it MUST mean something MAJOR -- either symbolically or otherwise.

Also, I got the impression in a previous season when Kara and the Admiral discussed the death of his other son that he died sometime well prior to the Cylon nuclear attack, so I have the feeling that while the scene we saw with Adama talking about his disdain for his ceremonial decomissioning of Galactica WAS just prior to the actual attack, most of the other scenes were at varying times prior -- in the case of Roslyn and the baby shower, then the subsequent car accident death of her sisters and father, she made clear mention that it had been three months. Regardless of how some of us feel about all the time spent on Caprica flashbacks tonight, there HAD TO BE good reasons for them, I think -- at least I hope so -- if only to help us better understand some of the motivations behind our central characters.
Jeff

lax01

03-14-09, 01:37 AM

Full on tears when Roslin showed up on deck...very emotional scene

unbelievable...we only have 2 hours left of BSG....wow....I feel like I'm losing something in my life....

cannot wait

They will tie it all together...RDM and Eick wouldn't do that to us...no way, I have full faith...

GrnXnham

03-14-09, 02:09 AM

I'm ready for some more action next week. There has been too many episodes now without much action. From the previews, it looks like next week the action starts! (and ends) Time to blow up some Cylons!

I have to admit that I was very happy that they didn't have the tiresome movie cliche where when Adama asks everyone to step on one side of the line or the other, everyone moves to the starboard side! Then some young "buck" private steps forward and says something like: "We're all with you, sir!"

Ugh, I hate that cliche!

Instead, more realistically, a majority of people chose NOT to go.

moob

03-14-09, 02:20 AM

I'm 100% sure Baltar says "fraking" not "f**king" in that scene.

I loved the episode though I don't think it was really supposed to be a singular episode. Like some of you I also got teary-eyed when Roslin walked on deck. :p

I'll go back to what I said before...this has always been a show about the characters, and I wouldn't doubt if some of the plot points are left a little open. I said before that season 4 has been my favourite season so far, and I think that's really because they've focused more on the people than anything else. We've really only had two battles so far. The season 4 premiere, and The Hub.

But that being said, I still think the major questions looming all tie directly to one another, so we won't need a whole hour of exposition to uncover it. Moore and Eick haven't let me down this far, I have no doubt they'll finish it with style.

Edit: I forgot to say...Roslin has not had a fun life. Seriously. Her flashback was depressing as hell.

JeffAHayes

03-14-09, 05:07 AM

As for all the flashback sequences -- and the fact that the Cylon Colony is orbiting JUST outside the event horizon of a quantum singularity (i.e. "Black Hole"), cosmologists (physicists who explore theories about things like black holes), based beginning on Einstein's General Theory of Relativity and expanded by theories developed ever since, say, at the very least, that if you were to ENTER a Black Hole and somehow able to survive the experience (and we have no way of knowing if consciousness would survive even if the body did not), the laws of time and space would reverse, i.e., you would be essentially "stuck" in space, but could move freely back and forth through time (and if you could move back and forth through time, I have to assume that means if you moved into the PAST you could move to places you had been before, i.e., "all this has happened before.")...

There are also all kinds of WILD cosmological theories involving quantum singularities that go WAY ABOVE my head, dealing with possibilities that if someone were able to successfully PASS THROUGH ONE, they could emerge at another place and time -- possibly in THIS universe, or in an ALTERNATE universe... So while it's possible the show ends with everyone being "consumed" by a "black hole," I think it's also possible it ends with the black hole also somehow transforming everyone's lives in some fantastical way that only the people involved directly with the show will know until next Friday.

At any rate, putting the Final Battle right next to a Black Hole is a BRILLIANT MOVE in my opinion, as it leaves SO MANY possibilities open -- not to mention the special effects options!

Then again, it DOES also leave open the option for the screen to REALLY "fade to black" at the end of the final episode! :p:eek::D
Jeff

vurbano

03-14-09, 07:59 AM

What a waste of an hour. I have no reason to be interested in seeing Adamas dead some nor Rosylins dead relatives, nor Baltars father. An entire episode wasted deciding to attack? We were robbed.

vurbano

03-14-09, 08:02 AM

allargon

03-14-09, 08:56 AM

vurbano

03-14-09, 09:02 AM

Yep, I just checked on my WMC recording -- exactly 9:28 into it, in the middle of arguing with his father, Gaius says, "I need this like a f*cking hole in the head!" :eek: And I, too, played it back SEVERAL TIMES, at full volume, listening VERY carefully... It's verified, someone slipped the REAL "f-word" past the censors.

Also, just a few seconds before that he used the word "bloody" as a swear word, which is NOTHING to Americans, but a major swear word to the British. I really haven't paid attention as to whether he's been using that during prior shows or not, but if not, THAT was likely a slip-of-the-tongue in the midst of a VERY frenetic scene.

A scene like that one is SO fast-paced and full of dialogue they may have had to do several takes to get it "right," and perhaps that was as "right" as they could get it. Even so, I'm fairly certain someone either just MISSED the "f-word" or else whoever was in charge of that decided to see if they could "sneak it past," because that could have EASILY been re-dubbed as "fracking."

He said "faaaking" without the "r" there was no "u" sound. The editors didnt miss anything.

petergaryr

03-14-09, 09:49 AM

No we aren't obsessive at all, no siree. You won't find us rewinding the DVRs to verify what version of an "F" word was used. Riiiight.

One thing I've noticed over the past few weeks during the "flashbacks" is how colorful, crisp, non-grainy the picture is. Probably some of the best HD I've seen on the SciFi channel...and when it switched back to the "current" BSG timeframe it is back to the look and feel we are used to. Quite a nice bit of cinematography.

I also suspect that some people will not be checking into Caprica as a series since that will tend to be even more character driven.

replayrob

03-14-09, 10:10 AM

...the Cylon Colony is orbiting JUST outside the event horizon of a quantum singularity...
Funny just how sophisticated us Sci-Fi fans have become...
If someone had said "the event horizon of a quantum singularity" just a few years back- we would have been totally in the dark (:D), but now thanks to our higher education through Sci-Fi... it's meaning is crystal clear.

I'm gonna miss BSG, TSSC, and Life on Mars :(:(

dcowboy7

03-14-09, 10:37 AM

I have no reason to be interested in seeing Rosylins dead relatives

though the non preggers sis was really hot !! :cool:

RolandOG

03-14-09, 10:45 AM

What a waste of an hour. I have no reason to be interested in seeing Adamas dead some nor Rosylins dead relatives, nor Baltars father. An entire episode wasted deciding to attack? We were robbed.

First off, with a couple exceptions this show hasn't focused space battles for at least 2 seasons. BSG is about the characters and their struggles. Having flashbacks that most likely will support big moments in the finale is not a bad thing.

Second, why do people think that the answers we are looking for will take a full hour to explain or show? Revealing Ellen as the last member of the final five took all of 1 minute. Or how about this, maybe the answers aren't all that complicated and won't take all that much time to convey?

The episode wasn't about deciding to attack, it was about the people involved in the decision.

"Lost"

03-14-09, 10:52 AM

though the non preggers sis was really hot !! :cool:

+1

I guess Anders got his wish, he is a machine now spewing out perfect mathematical calculations. I guess that finalizes his story, or was that interview for any other reason.

I liked Baltars Dad, he was very funny, he sure knows Baltar.

That colony looks like a spider (Aliens come to mind) with a diameter nearly the size of the moon.

RolandOG

03-14-09, 10:52 AM

No, he stayed firmly planted on the port side of the line. Unless he crossed over off camera.

The conversation with Lee seemed to be setup for Baltar to create his one selfless act. During the scene I was saying to myself 'now's your chance Baltar' but sure enough he stayed true to himself. Somehow I think he'll be on Galactica, though. He's too major a character to not be a big part of the finale. Unless they're going to cut back and forth from the battle to the fleet and focus on Baltar. Hmmm, maybe they're setting it up for the Savior to deliver his flock to the promised land while the heros die fighting? :)

petergaryr

03-14-09, 10:58 AM

+1

....

That colony looks like a spider (Aliens come to mind) with a diameter nearly the size of the moon.

Funny you should say that. I was thinking it looked like a Shadow ship from Babylon 5 :D

JimP

03-14-09, 11:21 AM

I think the writers are setting us up to seeing all these deceased people again in the final episode when our characters all going towards the light and all these lost relatives are there to welcome them?

lax01

03-14-09, 11:28 AM

acksnay

03-14-09, 11:33 AM

Got a feeling that "Daybreak" will be less the satisfying conclusion to Battlestar Galactica, but more the teaser and setup for Caprica. Hope I'm wrong.

"Lost"

03-14-09, 11:46 AM

Funny you should say that. I was thinking it looked like a Shadow ship from Babylon 5 :D

Now that you say that, I see.
http://www.technovelgy.com/graphics/content08/mercury-shadow-craft2.jpg

SSpectre

03-14-09, 12:30 PM

CPanther95

03-14-09, 12:38 PM

I know I said I wouldn't be back, but I cheated and watched the previews.

I'm weak.

Good show, and still waiting for the end before I judge this last season. I will admit that I was hoping that the attack on Cavil and the retrieval of Hera would occur last night and the final two hours would be focused on other things (new home world, disposition of the different cylon models, integration of human and cylon, etc.) - but like I said, I'll reserve judgment until the end of the series.

Oh, and he did avoid the f word. I didn't think so, but after replaying a bunch of times, my son was right when he said he heard the "a" sound in there. But it was absolutely the closest possible pronunciation possible. :)

michaeltscott

03-14-09, 12:46 PM

Well, at least we should get lots of stuff blowing up as they attack The Colony, which should make the VFX junkies happy :rolleyes:.

AAF

03-14-09, 01:15 PM

...Kara stepping out of Zak's shower as the final credits close isn't such a stretch now is it?

petergaryr

03-14-09, 02:41 PM

Anyone else going to catch the special Monday at 10 PM? I have the DVR set.

scanpa

03-14-09, 02:51 PM

The special is on at least 10 times over the next 7 days!

MeowMeow

03-14-09, 03:05 PM

Apparently a lot of you didn't like the flashbacks, but I thought they were good to show how far the members of the fleet have fallen since the Cylons returned and wiped out the colonies.

I thought it was an excuse to piss away one more hour to save budget for the finale. Except for Baltar's official Grand Prize victory in the "Who Can Make Frak Sound the Most Like Not-Frak" contest, I wasn't that impressed.

This finale better be full of explosions. I wanna see that all the money they saved making episodes only slightly less lame than Black Market goes to good use. More importantly, I want to see a counter at the bottom of the screen rolling over ten digits reflecting the wanton budgetary madness I expect.

After that, all I ask is that however The Music figures in, that the explanation not be too mind-numbingly dumb.

petergaryr

03-14-09, 03:25 PM

The special is on at least 10 times over the next 7 days!

....well, after all, it is the SciFi channel. :)

Actually, not a bad move for the DVR-challenged.

moob

03-14-09, 06:09 PM

Depends... I thought it was classic Galactica. It was never an action space show.

First off, with a couple exceptions this show hasn't focused space battles for at least 2 seasons. BSG is about the characters and their struggles. Having flashbacks that most likely will support big moments in the finale is not a bad thing.

The episode wasn't about deciding to attack, it was about the people involved in the decision.

Exactly. I have no idea how people could be disappointed with these past few episodes or be surprised there hasn't been much action. Season 2 ended with an election. Season 3 ended with a trial. And now, as we come to the end, you don't expect them to spend loads of time with the characters we've watched for 4 years? Come on. The thing is though, this goes all the way back to season 1. There has never been much action in this show (they quickly stopped showing battles and started just showing the Galactica jumping away pretty early), but for some reason people choose now to complain about it. Boggles the mind.

One thing I've noticed over the past few weeks during the "flashbacks" is how colorful, crisp, non-grainy the picture is. Probably some of the best HD I've seen on the SciFi channel...and when it switched back to the "current" BSG timeframe it is back to the look and feel we are used to. Quite a nice bit of cinematography.

Yep. They did the same thing when Roslin was on that ship to cross over to the other side. I remember when I was watching that episode I thought it was a commercial or something at first because it was so clean/different.

Got a feeling that "Daybreak" will be less the satisfying conclusion to Battlestar Galactica, but more the teaser and setup for Caprica. Hope I'm wrong.
Setup for a prequel? We already know how the Caprica story ends.

gadianton

03-14-09, 08:39 PM

I was very pleased with the flashbacks. The characters are most of the reason I watch the show. I always pitch it to non-viewers as what would you do if the world ended. The story is about what those people went through when their world ended.

I'm sure that they will wrap up pretty much everything. I don't think they do anything much with the black hole/time travel/alternate universe idea. I bet it is more with Daniel, and battle for Hera stuff. I don't expect them to spend much time with resolution and settling the new earth kinda thing.

With that being said, I know I'll be disappointed Daybreak simply because it means it is the end of a great show.

loco

03-14-09, 08:47 PM

I hope you're right, gadianton. The one fear I have about the final episode is this black hole business. RDM has never liked technobabble, so I'm hoping it's just a device to make it so that Adama's volunteers have only one way into the area where the Colony is located. I really hope it doesn't become some method for resurrection or time travel.

Otherwise, I have faith in the way they are going about this. I like how the finale started and am hopeful for a finish worthy of this great series.

SkyLite

03-14-09, 10:17 PM

Would they park us next to a black hole unless it was going to have a play in the final 2 hours?

Get used to it.

Someone will have to go through the "quantum singularity" (anal, JAH :D), because it's there.

Where the frak is EC2546: The Hamburger?

JeffAHayes

03-14-09, 11:48 PM

he stayed with the girls even with 6 looking at him waiting for him to grow some balls.

AHEM I think THOSE (his balls) got sucked inside him along with Six's consciousness when the BIG BLAST happened on Caprica! Flip side, it's entirely possible he sees this as an opportunity to have something approaching a majority on Gallactica and to take it over, and when and if the rescue team DOES return, it will be to "Emperor Gaius Baltar" :eek::p:rolleyes:

As for YOU, SkyLite, AHEM, just WHEN did it become "anal" to call a quantum singularity a quantum singularity??? If you go back and replay the show (and NO, I didn't, because I CLEARLY REMEMBER it from the FIRST TIME), that's what they called it in THE SHOW, as well, the first time they mentioned -- actually the first COUPLE of times, I believe. :p Just BECAUSE most folks call them "black holes," doesn't mean we can't refer to them by their proper names when we wish, does it? Many people ALSO call Calcutta, India a "black hole," and since LONG BEFORE such a thing as a quantum singularity was theorized, SOOOO, in order to keep the TRULY "anal retentive" at bay, I sometimes choose to use the actual terminology for something. I never much cared for calling our Strategic Space Missile Defense Initiative "Star Wars," either, although I DID agree to call it by it's generally accepted abbreviation of Strategic Defense Iniitiative, or SDI. Is it a CRIME to be intelligent or well-educated now? :p:p:p:p:p

And I, for one, no disrespect intended to the Sci-Fi channel, DON'T have them to thank for that knowledge... I've known what a quantum singularity is since LONG BEFORE there WAS a Sci-Fi channel! :rolleyes: I actually read magazines (like Discover) and books on such things JUST FOR FUN and "edjumakashun"... Just IMAGINE! The HORROR OF IT ALL!!! :eek:

I don't waste my time reading fiction. If I want fiction, I watch TV or a movie... it's so much more compressed because all the visuals and dialogue are presented via the senses they should be, rather than necessarily through descriptive written language...

Ah reckons goin' into such lengthy exposition and explanation is "anal," too, but ah figgurs ah needs ta splain mahself fully ta sums ya folks, acause ya's jist duzn't seems ta gits it! :cool:
Bubba

vurbano

03-15-09, 09:25 AM

AHEM I think THOSE (his balls) got sucked inside him along with Six's consciousness when the BIG BLAST happened on Caprica! Flip side, it's entirely possible he sees this as an opportunity to have something approaching a majority on Gallactica and to take it over, and when and if the rescue team DOES return, it will be to "Emperor Gaius Baltar" :eek::p:rolleyes:

Or more likely he could just be the coward he's always been.

slowbiscuit

03-15-09, 11:18 AM

I thought it was an excuse to piss away one more hour to save budget for the finale. Except for Baltar's official Grand Prize victory in the "Who Can Make Frak Sound the Most Like Not-Frak" contest, I wasn't that impressed.

This finale better be full of explosions. I wanna see that all the money they saved making episodes only slightly less lame than Black Market goes to good use. More importantly, I want to see a counter at the bottom of the screen rolling over ten digits reflecting the wanton budgetary madness I expect.

After that, all I ask is that however The Music figures in, that the explanation not be too mind-numbingly dumb.
+1. I don't give a damn about the flashbacks because they didn't reveal anything worth the time to tell them and because they should've been done in S1. Other than that, the only drama in the ep was in who would volunteer for the last Ride of the Valkyries.

This last half-season has (mostly) been a disappointment to me, because they've wasted way too much time on stuff we either already knew or was tangential to the plot. Other than the one ep where Anders was spilling the beans, you could've condensed everything else into another ep and not missed a thing.

dc_pilgrim

03-15-09, 11:29 AM

Put me firmly in the waste of an hour camp.

RolandOG

03-15-09, 02:49 PM

dcowboy7

03-15-09, 02:57 PM

If people want to watch action and space battles then I politely suggest you spin your favorite DVD with said content. If you want well-written character driven storytelling then keep watching BSG.

but i want a mix of both, something i think theyve done a good job with for the most part, until lately with the yakfests of recent episodes.

edpowers

03-15-09, 03:29 PM

but i want a mix of both, something i think theyve done a good job with for the most part, until lately with the yakfests of recent episodes.

I agree. I love BSG because it had a great mix of action AND character-driven storytelling. This last half season has been different. It just seems like they are writing around the action ... aka yakfest.

edpowers

03-15-09, 03:33 PM

If people want to watch action and space battles then I politely suggest you spin your favorite DVD with said content. If you want well-written character driven storytelling then keep watching BSG.

[/rant]

Actually, I really do enjoy well-written character driven storytelling, that's why I READ a lot of fiction. I watch BSG for a balance of action, SFX AND well-written character development. In my opinion, the combination is what made this show great.

lonwolf615

03-15-09, 03:37 PM

the flashbacks were frakking brilliant...

RolandOG

03-15-09, 04:10 PM

Well, I like the mix as well but my POV on Galactica has changed over the course of the series. At first all I wanted was battles and action and I used to get upset when there wasn't some substantial action in an episode. Around the time of New Caprica I started to care more about the character parts of the episodes than the action and have been that way ever since. I love the battles but at this point I want to see what happens to the people involved. I'm glad that the second half of this season has focused on the characters.

Sharp1080

03-15-09, 04:22 PM

I also like the flashbacks. Let me ask you this, when it's over will you remember stuff blowing up or something pivotal happening with a character? I do love the SFX and want more on the show but come on guys the SFX are like good first time sex. It's over in 5 minutes.:D

Bear5k

03-15-09, 04:49 PM

I agree. I love BSG because it had a great mix of action AND character-driven storytelling. This last half season has been different. It just seems like they are writing around the action ... aka yakfest.
Even at the end of season three, there were more plot lines opening up than were being closed. With the writers' strike coming when it did, I'd look at the last half-season as a way to be sure that we get closure on almost all of them. It may not be what people want to watch, but given the alternative is something like the end to The Sopranos, which RDM expressed a lot of admiration for, I'm glad for the narrative consistency -- even if the whole "who is Starbuck?" is being saved for the bitter end (hopefully not being left hanging...).

CPanther95

03-15-09, 05:51 PM

I don't know if those that are complaining are saying that they want 3 or 4 hours of space battles to end the series. I certainly don't feel that way, but I also would have preferred the final assault to have happened last week. Not because I want more "action", but because if there is going to be 1 hour of battle and 2 hours of plot development - I'd rather have that plot development involve the disposition of the fleet and the humans'/cylons' future, not stuff that leads to the battle we already know is coming, and certainly not stuff from the past (pre-series).

It's not about more battles, it's about moving the story as far as possible beyond the events we already know are going to happen.

JeffAHayes

03-15-09, 06:52 PM

Everyone is entitled to their opinions but I think the last two posts are so off base. How do you know there won't be payoff to the flashbacks when you haven't even seen the last two hours of this episode?

If people want to watch action and space battles then I politely suggest you spin your favorite DVD with said content. If you want well-written character driven storytelling then keep watching BSG.

[/rant]

^5 Roland! I'm NOT saying that I prefer all the flashbacks to battle scenes in Friday's episodes. What I AM saying -- as I've BEEN saying all along (maybe using a metaphor this time will help) -- is that if you sample a cake when it's half-baked, it's likely to look like hell and taste like crap! This series finale is NOT yet "fully baked," and I DON'T think it's fair to judge it solely on the first hour. I ALSO don't think they would have put all that flashback in there WITHOUT a very good reason!

I do, however, also agree somewhat with Cpanther's assertion that we don't really want all of the final two hours tied up with nothing but battle scenes and NO character exposition and resolution. Frankly, I have ONE MAJOR PROBLEM with many battle scenes -- and THAT is that quite often much of the action is SO fast-paced that it's difficult to tell exactly WHAT is happening to WHOM... Of course I'm fairly certain we can count on RDM and company to make sure that all IMPORTANT battle scenes will be shown slowly -- possibly even in slow-mo, with any important "kills," etc. made VERY clear...

A GREAT example of the "fog of war" that often happens during battle scenes is much of what occurred during the mutiny, when it was sometimes impossible to tell who was fighting whom... Does ANYONE have ANY IDEA who it was that shot Sam Anders, for instance? Or does it matter? All that IS, in fact, QUITE realistic (all the confusion, the "fog of war"), as anyone who's ever been in real battle will attest to (not me, but I've seen, read and heard plenty of interviews from real soldiers who've been in real battles).

To me, it's not so important about what a big final battle they have as to what HAPPENS... What is the resolution for Caprica Six? Baltar? The two Adamas? Roslyn? Cavil and the Final Five? Boomer and Athena? Hera and Kara in particular? How does it ALL COME TOGETHER? What role does the Q.S. play in the finale, other than making it impossible for the rescue raid to jump in any place except a single, well-guarded spot? Will Cavil ever "come around," perhaps even let go of all that hate and embrace his "human side," maybe even CRY? Will ALL the other Cylons discover he DELIBERATELY erased ALL their memories of the Final Five so he could manipulate them and essentially RUN THE WHOLE SHOW, himself, and if so, WHAT will be the impact of THAT??? And what of the Lords of Kobol?????

These and likely a dozen more questions of which I've neglected to think are what's REALLY important to the finale. The battle scenes are just FIREWORKS! We can see FIREWORKS any July 4th!

How about let's all calm down about the lack of BATTLE SCENES and settle down and get ready for the finale of possibly the BEST FRACKIN' SCI-FI SHOW EVER?!? :cool:
Jeff

RolandOG

03-15-09, 08:09 PM

Reasonable points made by both of you. Personally I'm hoping that the battle occurs primarily in the first hour and the second hour is spent closing out the major plot lines for the series.

slowbiscuit

03-15-09, 09:00 PM

Everyone is entitled to their opinions but I think the last two posts are so off base. How do you know there won't be payoff to the flashbacks when you haven't even seen the last two hours of this episode?

The problem is that I don't see the payoff happening. We all know Baltar is self-absorbed, we all know Roslyn is tortured (as is most of the crew), etc. There was very little point in doing the flashbacks *at this time*. What they should've been doing is advancing the plot, and having Kara dick around with Zack in a flashback ain't it.

There's only two hours left, folks. If they jump the shark with the best sci-fi series ever shown on network TV, I'm going to be pissed.

JeffAHayes

03-15-09, 09:17 PM

I really DON'T think RDM and Company will FUBAR the series finale, but since you can never please all the people all the time, I'm pretty certain that no matter what happens there will be SOME PEOPLE who are not satisfied with the finale... Heck, I might even be one of them, although I'm generally pretty easy-going about such things and nonetheless accept them, since there's nothing that can be done, either way.

One thing I DID notice in the opening credits of the last episode was that along with likely every other writer on the show, Jane Epsenson is now listed as an Executive Producer, for better or for worse. :rolleyes::eek::cool:
Jeff

ec2546

03-15-09, 10:06 PM

The problem is that I don't see the payoff happening. ...

There's only two hours left, folks. If they jump the shark with the best sci-fi series ever shown on network TV, I'm going to be pissed.
There's only 90 minutes if you eliminate the commercials. There's no way the payoff will be satisfying. I still expect the finale to be good, but as "Season 4.5" goes I think it's beyond redemption at this point. There's just too much 'splainin' to do in that 90 minutes, esp. when you consider you've got a massive SFX budget battle that's going to occupy maybe a full third of it. If RDM drops the ball, though, I just may have to reconsider my future DVD/BluRay buying plans. Sorta like the Sopranos. The first couple of seasons were beyond great, but I wouldn't give you 2 cents for the rest.

In replaying the beginning, I noticed that pigeon fluttering around a ceiling yet again, as one of the ESTABLISHING SHOTS for Caprica, so it MUST mean something MAJOR -- either symbolically or otherwise.
I've heard a lot of people saying it's an omen of death, but I never heard that before. What culture or superstition framework holds that to be the case? I don't know.

... so I have the feeling that while the scene we saw with Adama talking about his disdain for his ceremonial decomissioning of Galactica WAS just prior to the actual attack, most of the other scenes were at varying times prior ...

If you're talking about the Adama flashback, that's not what was going on there. The "hour out of his life" being discussed (in civilian attire with what I would term an employment "headhunter") was an interview for a desk job somewhere. At least according to SciFi's plot summary. We saw Adama not too thrilled about riding a desk after having commanded Battlestars and being responsible for lives and valuable military assets. That flashback was the moment, perhaps, where he realized he wasn't cut out for civilian life, and decided to stay with (or re-join) the Colonial Defense Forces.

vurbano

03-15-09, 10:34 PM

Steve Scherrer

03-15-09, 10:39 PM

I've heard a lot of people saying it's an omen of death, but I never heard that before. What culture or superstition framework holds that to be the case? I don't know.

http://death.findyourfate.com/Deathomens-birds.html

A lot of death omens dealing with birds involve them flying "around a house" (I assume, outside of a house) or flying through an open window.

"Lost"

03-15-09, 10:50 PM

JeffAHayes

03-15-09, 10:53 PM

JeffAHayes

03-15-09, 11:14 PM

I think this is how it will go down.

Galactica jumps into the trap, all guns fire away, they board the Battle crab, a fire fight, Boomer turns on Cavil, and with Starbucks help sets course into the Black hole.

They do not survive they do not time travel, they just become composted packed matter part of the singularity.

Heavily damaged Galactica cant jump, so Adama Tigh and Roslyn along with the surviving final five ride her into the Black hole while yelling so say we all.

Of course all this only takes 10 minutes while the rest of the time is spent on dialog, everyone gets a soap box to stand on, and give lengthy rantings on life.

The survivors all jump back in a few raptors, and the Cylons cannibalize all the humans, while searching for a home, soon they all starve, and the toasters go on to form a new civilization, and become the best machines ever!

END OF LINE...

Hmmmm, well, that's possible, Lost, EXCEPT for your description of what happens when they are sucked into the Black Hole (not to be too "Anal," SkyLite :p)... According to all the cosmologists (the physicists who study such things), anything or anyone being sucked into a quantum singularity would be "spaghettified," meaning that, for instance, if we were going in feet first (and that would NOT be the preferred way to go in, because time dilation would cause time to slow almost to a complete standstill for whoever was entering the Black Hole), we would SLOWLY be spread out into a longer and longer "person" as out atoms were stretched virtually to "infinity," with us eventually entering the Black Hole essentially one atom at a time. The "Event Horizon" is so named because for someone viewing at a distance, anything that enters the event horizon appears to just sit there essentially "forever" until it suddenly just "poof" disappears, due to the effects of time dilation... This all very deeply wrapped up in the Theory of Relativity and other serious physics that goes WAY over my head but keeps my IMAGINIATION just CHURNING with excitement!

Speaking of science that's exciting, Page 32 of the latest issue of Discover Magazine has an article about REAL SCIENCE (i.e., stuff they're ACTUALLY DOING in labs, vs. things like Black Holes, which are all still "mathematical" models and, at best, observable phenomena from Millions of light years away). The topic of the article is stuff considered PURE SCIENCE FICTION only 10 years ago -- invisibility cloaks, and more, using the new science of METAMATERIALS -- a venture in which DARPA has taken great interest... REAL Cloaking devices are not far away -- along with all SORTS of other technologies developed from the same field that are just too involved and in some cases downright MINDBOGGLING to get into here -- you'll just have to read the article... I'll look to see if there's an online link. If not, and you don't subscribe to Discover, it's worth going out and buying the April issue for that ONE article, alone!
Jeff

SkyLite

03-15-09, 11:25 PM

Hmmmm, well, that's possible, Lost, EXCEPT for your description of what happens when they are sucked into the Black Hole (not to be too "Anal," SkyLite :p)...

<snip>

Jeff

Too late for that, I'm afraid.

JeffAHayes

03-15-09, 11:35 PM

And just SINCE WHEN does ANALytical equate ANAL??? :rolleyes::eek::p

By the way, SkyLite, that LizardAttack link of yours won't work -- at least it won't work for me. :confused:

SkyLite

03-15-09, 11:37 PM

All I can think of is that if they had furthered the plot last week, it would have been enough that we would have all figured it out, so they're saving everything for the last two hours.

Certain things can only be explained by the QUANTUM SINGULARITY (*JAH) , like: the star going nova at the Temple. How did they know this unless they had experienced it before? Many more instances of foreknowledge, BTW, have happened all along the way.

*anal trademark

ETA: My sig works for me.

Try this one:

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2936/l...onger_version/

MeowMeow

03-15-09, 11:56 PM

Let's just be flat-out honest. BSG has wasted a lot of time pursuing dead ends. And it cost the quality of the show dearly.

Season One towers over the other three seasons for a simple reason: it's the only time the story has a real sense of urgency. Watch 33, and then watch your choice of the best episodes from the later seasons. While the later seasons have great moments, nothing compares to that initial sense of horror at the relentless pursuit of the Cylons (back when they were still scary).

Once they wrapped up the Kobol plotline, the show fell off the cliff. Worse, the one interjection that fell urgent was Admiral Cain -- and they killed her after three episodes in the dumbest, most disposable way possible. This was followed by the worst episodes of the series. Then a fairly mediocre third season where the show largely saved itself with the most shocking reveal possible (Saul is a Cylon!!).

For a show that was always planned to fold after a set number of episodes, BSG has proceeded at a leisurely pace for a long time.

And I'll give credit where credit is due. For example, I'm still astounded that the inclusion of All Along the Watchtower has a coherent explanation. I think bringing Saul to the fore as a Cylon was one of the greatest strokes of writing ever.

But, like everyone else who has watched the show, I feel it owes me something. We've taken the good with the bad. More correctly, we've taken the supreme awesomeness with the dear-gawd-make-it-stop-turn-it-off.

The show owes us something because we've trusted it this long, despite less than solid evidence that even the writers know how this will end.

That's the tensions we, as fans of the show, now feel. We're this close to being good and pissed, because we feel the show owes us. Big time.

"Lost"

03-16-09, 12:06 AM

Hmmmm, well, that's possible, Lost, EXCEPT for your description of what happens when they are sucked into the Black Hole (not to be too "Anal," SkyLite :p)... According to all the cosmologists (the physicists who study such things), anything or anyone being sucked into a quantum singularity would be "spaghettified," Yes Ive read all those theories but falling in sounds better than a full page rant on multiple theories. The simple answers thats been proven with Chandra observations of many galactic centers, is matters orbits at very high speeds matter actually falls in to the accretion disk, some matter becomes part of the singularity, some matter spins off in a jet going in opposite directions, till recently called a quasar.

I just deleted a vary good show about the supermasive black holes. Only to make room for BSG. :mad: Hope its worth it, I REALLY LIKED THAT ONE.:)

AND WHATS WITH THE YELLING EVERY OTHER WORD, IT MAKES YOUR LONG POSTS HARD TO READ. :confused::)

SkyLite

03-16-09, 12:09 AM

Maybe they just had some of the last episode footage "in the can" and decided to use it.

Weren't they expecting to go, at least, another 2 years? I bet they had saved a lot of footage to use at the end, and now, well.....it's the end.

JeffAHayes

03-16-09, 12:41 AM

AND WHATS WITH THE YELLING EVERY OTHER WORD, IT MAKES YOUR LONG POSTS HARD TO READ.

Geesh, sorry Lost, but just so you know, that one sentence above has two more words in ALL CAPS than the entire two paragraphs I wrote above, which probably came close to 200 words (No, I didn't count all the words in the paragraphs, just the ones in all-caps, and I DIDN'T include DARPA, as that is a recognized acronym).

I use all-caps not to yell, but as a simplified way to show emphasis, rather than having to continually click and unclick bold or italics. And I apologize for this habit, but the first forum to which I belonged (and the only one for a long time) was the GardenWeb, which at the time (maybe still) had no (I'm having a hard time avoiding the capslock key right now, lol) means of bolding, italicizing or doing anything else special to text, unless you knew the specific html code for that. Sooooo, I got in the habit of using ALL CAPS for emphasis where I might have otherwise used bold or italics, and frankly, it's still easier than having to go up there and click (if there were a keyboard shortcut, I'd certainly use that.

As for deleting a saved program on SuperMassive Black Holes to make room for recording the BSG finale... I don't see any way I could make that kind of choice! It would be like trying to make "Sophie's Choice" for me! I think I'd just have to go get another DVR, or something, lol... And I apologize if I insulted your intelligence, Lost... Then again, you could have just said they fly directly into the Black Hole and all get spaghettified, rather than saying all get composted -- same effect, more accurate... I mean, yaneverknow when Neil DeGrasse Tyson or one of his colleagues might decide to hop onto this thread... We certainly don't want one of THEM lecturing us! :p:eek::o

SkyLite

03-16-09, 02:14 AM

Just watching last weeks episode.

They talk of "mag-cellerators" being left until the last of the stripping of Galactica. This allows vipers to launch. It's gotta mean something, don't cha think? Galactica will fight to the death, I think. :)

JeffAHayes

03-16-09, 02:30 AM

Just watching last weeks episode.

They talk of "ccelerators" being left until the last of the stripping of Galactica. This allows vipers to launch. It's gotta mean something, don't cha think? Galactica will fight to the death, I think. :)

Perhaps... maybe, as someone has sort of alluded to, with all that "Cylon goo" now coating the innards of Gallactica and worming its way into the very structure and "heart" of its being, some extreme event -- like perhaps proximity to something like a Gamma ray burst -- combined with Gallactica's new Cylon half-breed status, will cause the ship to morph into a living being and it will become another giant spaceship dragonfly, like Lexx :p and either save the day or EAT THEM ALL! :D

And don't anybody go trashing "Lexx," now... that had to be the most entertaining dark-comedy-interstellar-science-fiction romp of all time... Then again, it's probably the ONLY dark-comedy-interstellar-science-fiction romp of all time, too! :p The one episode during the season they were at Earth, where Xev was THE PRIZE in a TV show called "Xevivor" was some of the funniest Sci-Fi satire I think I've EVER seen -- especially when all those alien carrots started appearing and "doing their thing," LMAO! That actually IS a show I might buy the entire series of on Blu-Ray if I ever find it available at a reasonable price (I don't even know if it's out on DVD).

One serious thought on that quantum singularity... There is serious debate amongst cosmologists that were someone able to pass through one and live -- and emerge "on the other side," wherever that is -- they may well emerge in an alternate universe (most current cosmologists generally consider the possibility of maybe an infinite number of universes -- or a "multiverse"). If that were the case, then things could happen "before, and all over again" by every few thousand years the cycle ends at a singularity, where everyone passes through and that "resets" the cycle, because it can do all kinds of strange things to time...

Just a thought.
Jeff

SkyLite

03-16-09, 02:40 AM

All I can say is: Tricia Helfer has done one remarkable job.

She helped to make BSG what it is.

JeffAHayes

03-16-09, 02:54 AM

Ooooooh, I couldn't agree more with your comment about Tricia Helfer, SkyLite! I REALLY think many people would have turned away from the show very early on if not for both her continual sexy looks and provocative dialogue with Baltar, AND the fact that she's "stuck in his head," which made for possibly the most interesting question of the entire show for at least the first couple of seasons -- not to mention very many interesting plot twists and turns.

This is not, of course, to belittle the talent or performances of any of the other central actors in the series, as several of them are practically legendary... But we didn't even know who "Six" was for a while there -- sort of like all the mystery around Boomer for those first several episodes leading up to her first suspecting she was a Cylon, then discovering it, then acting on it by shooting Adama -- apparently with no free will at all in the act.

It's just THOSE kinds of story lines and scenes that have kept most of us RIVETED to our seats for the past 5 years, and just because we don't see that level of tension and suspense every episode, I think most of what has happened in most of the episodes has set up every single one of those truly mind-blowing scenes that will last many of us a lifetime!
Jeff

moob

03-16-09, 03:47 AM

Season One towers over the other three seasons for a simple reason: it's the only time the story has a real sense of urgency. Watch 33, and then watch your choice of the best episodes from the later seasons. While the later seasons have great moments, nothing compares to that initial sense of horror at the relentless pursuit of the Cylons (back when they were still scary).

Once they wrapped up the Kobol plotline, the show fell off the cliff. Worse, the one interjection that fell urgent was Admiral Cain -- and they killed her after three episodes in the dumbest, most disposable way possible. This was followed by the worst episodes of the series. Then a fairly mediocre third season where the show largely saved itself with the most shocking reveal possible (Saul is a Cylon!!).

I don't know if I could possibly disagree more with any of that.

33 wasn't even the best episode of season 1 (That goes to Flesh and Bone in my book), much less the series. And the first season, while fan-frakking-tastic, isn't my favourite...season 4 is, followed by 3, with 1 and 2 in a tie. How boring, monotonous and predictable would this show have become had they kept the same old, "Cylons jump in, Galactica launches alert vipers, battle ensues, Galactica recalls vipers, Galactica jumps just as missiles are about to be hit" formula? I'm so glad they got away from that as fast as they could and started focusing on other things.

The Cylons were only scary because they were unknown. Once they started to unveil the "villains" of the story, it could go one of two ways. Path one would be the clichéd "evil villain" which would lead to even more clichéd storytelling, and path two is the path they took. They humanized the enemy which enabled them to tell stories they wouldn't have been able to otherwise. So yes, the cylons were no longer scary, but it opened up a whole new world of possibilities. A world I believe they took full advantage of.

As for Cain, I thought it was perfect. Her complete abandonment of humanity and morality led to a completely meaningless and cold death.

But that's just me. ;)

JeffAHayes

03-16-09, 04:35 AM

As for Cain, I thought it was perfect. Her complete abandonment of humanity and morality led to a completely meaningless and cold death.

I couldn't agree more! She really got what was coming to her, she was such a mean, cold power-hungry bitch! Given half the chance, she'd have declared a permanent state of martial law and crowned herself Empress of the 12 Colonies.

Rather and ironic character twist for the actress who played a very different sort of character on "Star Trek: The Next Generation," I think.
Jeff

petergaryr

03-16-09, 07:34 AM

...How boring, monotonous and predictable would this show have become had they kept the same old, "Cylons jump in, Galactica launches alert vipers, battle ensues, Galactica recalls vipers, Galactica jumps just as missiles are about to be hit" formula? ...

Actually, what you just described was the original series :D

I can still remember the stock shots they kept using: Cylon ship banks to the left, Viper blows it up; Cylon ship banks to the right, Viper blows it up; Cylon ship flies over Galactica, Viper blows it up...etc.

They even had one poor girl's entire character saying:

"Core systems transferring control to craft. Launch when ready"---followed by the exact same shot of a Viper leaving the launch pod---week in and week out.

The current BSG has believable characters in often morally gray situations struggling to make the "right" decision. Of the two shows, I vote for the latter.

dad1153

03-16-09, 08:33 AM

From Fredfa's "Hot Off The Press" thread at the top of the 'HDTV Programming' page:

TV Notes
Sci Fi Channel Has a New Name: Now, It’s Syfy
By Stuart Elliott, The New York Times - March 16, 2009

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/03/16/business/16adcol01-190.jpg

For years, television viewers, journalists who write about TV and services that compile listings have wondered how to refer to a certain cable network: Sci Fi Channel? Sci-Fi Channel? SciFi Channel? SCI FI Channel?

Soon, to paraphrase Rod Serling — whose vintage series, “The Twilight Zone,” is a mainstay of the Sci Fi Channel — executives will submit for public approval another name, not only of sight and sound but of mind, meant to signal a channel whose boundaries are that of imagination. That’s the signpost up ahead — your next stop, Syfy.

Plans call for Sci Fi and its companion Web site (scifi.com) to morph into the oddly spelled Syfy — pronounced the same as “Sci Fi” — on July 7. The new name will be accompanied by the slogan “Imagine Greater,” which replaces a logo featuring a stylized version of Saturn.

A channel called Syfy will, presumably, not be confused with SyFi Global, an information technology company; S.Y.F.I., the Summer Youth Forestry Institute; or Syfo seltzer, sold by Universal Beverages.

The tweaking of the Sci Fi name, introduced in 1992, is part of a rebranding campaign that seeks to distinguish the channel and its programming from cable competitors — 75 of which are also measured by the Nielsen ratings service.

The Syfy name is to be introduced on Monday to advertisers and agencies by executives of Sci Fi, part of the NBC Universal Cable Entertainment division of NBC Universal, a unit of General Electric.

The name will be revealed at an upfront presentation, when networks try to win commitments by advertisers to blocks of commercial time before the start of the next TV season. Cable channels will spend this month and next making upfront presentations; the broadcast networks will follow in April and May.

One big advantage of the name change, the executives say, is that Sci Fi is vague — so generic, in fact, that it could not be trademarked. Syfy, with its unusual spelling, can be, which is also why diapers are called Luvs, an online video Web site is called Joost and a toothpaste is called Gleem.

“We couldn’t own Sci Fi; it’s a genre,” said Bonnie Hammer, the former president of Sci Fi who became the president of NBC Universal Cable Entertainment and Universal Cable Productions. “But we can own Syfy.”

Another benefit of the new name is that it is not “throwing the baby away with the bath water,” she added, because it is similar enough to the Sci Fi brand to convey continuity to “the fan-boys and -girls who love the genre.”

Ms. Hammer and her successor as Sci Fi president, Dave Howe, said they had sat through many meetings over the years at which a name change was debated.

The principal reason the idea kept coming up, Mr. Howe said, was a belief “the Sci Fi name is limiting.”

“If you ask people their default perceptions of Sci Fi, they list space, aliens and the future,” he added. “That didn’t capture the full landscape of fantasy entertainment: the paranormal, the supernatural, action and adventure, superheroes.”

That became more important as Sci Fi expanded its program offerings into those realms, Mr. Howe said, with series like “Destination Truth” and “Ghost Hunters.”

And a shorter, more memorable name is more readily “attached to new businesses,” he added, like movies, video games, mobile content and additional channels overseas.

The Syfy and syfy.com names were developed by an internal team at Sci Fi along with Landor Associates, a corporate and brand identity consultancy that is part of WPP. Its brevity echoes the one-word names of other NBC Universal cable channels like Bravo, Chiller, Oxygen and Sleuth, not to mention channels owned by other companies including Flix, Fuse, Logo, Starz and Versus.

“The brand needed a little refreshing,” said Steve Mandala, executive vice president for cable ad sales at NBC Universal, who will be among those promoting Sci Fi — and Syfy — at the upfront presentation.

The change is being made from strength rather than weakness, he added, in that “the underpinnings of the network are terrific.”

According to SNL Kagan, a media research company, Sci Fi had 95.2 million subscriber households last year, compared with 93 million in 2007 and 88.2 million in 2006. SNL Kagan estimated ad revenue for Sci Fi at $423.9 million last year, compared with $392.7 million in 2007 and $394.6 million in 2006.

Reflecting the effects of the recession, the SNL Kagan estimate for ad revenue for Sci Fi and Syfy in 2009 is $408.3 million. Although “it’s too early to tell” how the year will turn out, Mr. Mandala said, “we’re having meaningful conversations” with potential advertisers for the 2009-10 season. (SNL Kagan predicts a rebound for ad revenue in 2010, to $426.9 million.)

Sci Fi plans a trade campaign next month, aimed at agencies, to publicize the new name, to be followed by ads on and off the channel for current and would-be viewers.

“We’re going to begin to tease the idea in the weeks leading up to the switch,” said Michael Engleman, vice president for creative at Sci Fi, and then reveal the change in a 90-second “brand anthem” commercial being produced by 4 Creative, a London agency. Another London agency, Proud Creative, is also working on the name-change effort.

No discussion of change affecting consumers could ignore what Mr. Howe called the “Tropicana debacle” — the recent decision by a unit of PepsiCo to abandon a major package redesign for Tropicana orange juice after shoppers vociferously complained.

“The testing we’ve done has been incredibly positive,” Mr. Howe said of the Syfy name, reading what he described as a comment from one participant: “If I were texting, this is how I would spell it.”

Ms. Hammer acknowledged that although “there’s always a little bit of risk” in change, Sci Fi executives are experienced in responding to outspoken viewers.

“With ‘Battlestar Galactica,’ we had such resistance from the fan base to changing it,” Ms. Hammer said of a series Sci Fi introduced in 2003, based on an ABC show from 1978-9.

“The upshot was, we ultimately won them over,” she added, and the series, scheduled to end on Friday, became one of the most successful on Sci Fi. It has inspired a spin-off, “Capricia,” to begin on Syfy in 2010.

In other news of the 2009-10 upfront season, Univision Communications has decided to forgo its usual formal presentation in May to advertisers and agencies in favor of low-key meetings next month in Chicago, Dallas, Los Angeles, Miami and New York.

The annual Univision presentation, which typically took place at a theater in Lincoln Center, featured stars of its networks — Univision, TeleFutura and Galavisión — and performers like the cast of the Broadway musical “In the Heights.”

The principal Univision competitor, Telemundo, part of NBC Universal, replaced its formal upfront presentation last year with a series of so-called client development meetings. Telemundo is holding similar meetings in Miami this month to discuss plans for the 2009-10 season.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/16/business/media/16adcol.html?ref=media

jason10mm

03-16-09, 08:35 AM

Come on guys, the ending is clear as day.

"Everything has happened before and will happen again!"

Black holes mean ONLY ONE THING to TV sci-fi writers and audiences, TIME TRAVEL. Thus we are gonna see the Galactica fall into the BH and end up in our distant past, re-populating Earth! As tired and jaded as that angle would be, it would allow them to ignore almost all of the plotlines. The music exists because they already had it, cylons exist because they brought them back, humans exist because they just jumped back. A nice endless loop paradigm.

dad1153

03-16-09, 08:35 AM

“With ‘Battlestar Galactica,’ we had such resistance from the fan base to changing it,” Ms. Hammer said of a series Sci Fi introduced in 2003, based on an ABC show from 1978-9.

“The upshot was, we ultimately won them over,” she added, and the series, scheduled to end on Friday, became one of the most successful on Sci Fi. It has inspired a spin-off, “Capricia,” to begin on Syfy in 2010.

Capricia??!! Looking forward to tomorrow's Times to read their correction to mis-naming "BSG's" upcoming spinoff. Newspaper of record! :rolleyes:

WilliamR

03-16-09, 09:32 AM

These last few episodes have been such a let down. It seems like they needed 4 or 5 episodes for filler. I don't see why it was important to see Lee chasing a pigeon around the apartment, plus numerous other things. Just useless to me. The best part of this episode was the last 5 minutes, it really started to pick up. I am completely let down by this entire season. What a shame.

dc_pilgrim

03-16-09, 10:08 AM

Bluto17

03-16-09, 10:27 AM

Man, this show sucks. After next week, I'm DONE. :)

Iteki

03-16-09, 10:48 AM

clevername

03-16-09, 11:31 AM

humdinger70

03-16-09, 11:45 AM

Talk about perfect timing...

I saw an article in my local newspaper (San Diego Union-Tribune) today (March 16, 2009) that two black holes that are orbiting each other at a distance of about 1/3 light year appear to be on a collision course that could have major repercussions for the space-time continuum.

Gods, we're frakked!! :D:D

slowbiscuit

03-16-09, 12:52 PM

TV Notes
Sci Fi Channel Has a New Name: Now, It’s Syfy
Doesn't matter what they call it, the channel is still going to be 90% crap, for no good reason that I can see. Especially now that BSG is ending.

GrouchoDude

03-16-09, 01:09 PM

yep, the dismissive "go watch your pew pew lasers" comments in this thread and other places in the internet this season have been needlessly insulting.

All some of us want is a plot that moves forward and characters that make sense. Some of you make it sound like we're sacrificing action for all this great character development when from where many of us sit we're sacrificing great character development and plot for redundant character development and inconsistent character development with time running out to tie up the plot (and God forbid we actually want answers).

I don't care if there's another shot fired, all I want is good storytelling.

I think if there's one thing we can all agree on, it's that this series has been fantastic storytelling. TV just don't get no better than this, frankly. But the bellyachin' has been a little much. This show has developed its characters and maintained their core personalities and motivations even while showing necessary growth better than any show I can remember. If you want to see the opposite, try 'Heroes' where the cast changes motivations and entire personalities from week to week.

The thing to remember is this is basically one man's vision, augmented by some amazingly creative people. They got to tell the story they wanted to tell, and end it on their terms. I have no doubt that had the ratings been 5-7 million/week, like 'Closer' for example, we would have had a richer, more vibrant show with a lot more vfx and more of the space battles that some tune in for (and little else, apparently). But they always had to work with what they had, and it was amazing what they were able to do considering the constraints of being a little seen (even if much praised) cablenet show.

So the ending is coming up, and guess what? It won't satisfy everybody. I have no doubt that no matter what happens, we'll be subjected to several posters whining about how awful it was and how it just didn't measure up to.... well, they don't quite know but they do know it should have been better, dadgumit! And that's the thing. This is one guy's vision, not yours. I'm perfectly happy to let him tell the story he wants to tell and I'm quite sure I'm going to frakkin' love it no matter how or even if all the major plotlines are resolved to my high-fallutin' satisfaction. I'm just grateful we got something this good to enjoy and talk about these last 6 years. Judging by the anemic ratings, and the comments from some here who just never got what the show was really about, it's more than we deserved.

jwebb1970

03-16-09, 01:26 PM

Great post, GrouchoDude!

I have never felt BSG was or should have been about all-out space battles. But it has done those types of things quite well when it did.

It's about the CHARACTERS. Their very real human feelings, foibles, worries & dreams. I think that, while it is/was never a ratings bonanza, many of those who do watch it are not all necessarily sci-fi fans.

Iteki

03-16-09, 01:33 PM

Great post, GrouchoDude!

all-out space battles

It's about the CHARACTERS.

I want both... :-)

AAF

03-16-09, 01:36 PM

All I can say is: Tricia Helfer has done one remarkable job.

She helped to make BSG what it is.

When her character killed the baby in the mini series the taint of Galatica 1980 was cleansed from my brain.

Of course now that BSG is ending Glen Larson is thinking of doing a movie so the taint may be back! Maybe there is something to "All this has happened before, and will happen again.." stuff. :rolleyes:

Steve Scherrer

03-16-09, 01:37 PM

I second Groucho.

This half season, while admittedly uneven (just like ALL the other seasons) has had some tremendous moments in it. Just a few of the high points for me this season: The mutiny was absolutely brilliant. Fantastic edge of your seat tension - smartly written, brilliantly acted. One of the best story arcs in any show ever.

The second high point for me was the piano player episode. I was worried about this one early on, but the characters played it so well, I was practically in tears when Starbuck "figures it out" and duets with her "father." That moment when the camera pulls back and upwards and her father and the she are playing that song - then to Tigh with that wonderful expression only he can muster, saying "What the Frak!" - then to that very special moment when they were done playing and she "blows" out the finger - Starbuck was simply in her father's presence smiling at him, until Tigh pulls her out of that hallucination. That was one of the best moments for me for this series.

The boomer escape with Hera was also well-done with Tyrol in that fantasy-land house? This was a very good moment as well.

These are off the top of my head. I think we expect so much brilliance out of this team that when they land a dud - it truly is a dud - and stands out more prominently than in other series that aren't as good.

clevername

03-16-09, 01:43 PM

I think if there's one thing we can all agree on, it's that this series has been fantastic storytelling. TV just don't get no better than this, frankly. But the bellyachin' has been a little much. This show has developed its characters and maintained their core personalities and motivations even while showing necessary growth better than any show I can remember. If you want to see the opposite, try 'Heroes' where the cast changes motivations and entire personalities from week to week.

The thing to remember is this is basically one man's vision, augmented by some amazingly creative people. They got to tell the story they wanted to tell, and end it on their terms. I have no doubt that had the ratings been 5-7 million/week, like 'Closer' for example, we would have had a richer, more vibrant show with a lot more vfx and more of the space battles that some tune in for (and little else, apparently). But they always had to work with what they had, and it was amazing what they were able to do considering the constraints of being a little seen (even if much praised) cablenet show.

So the ending is coming up, and guess what? It won't satisfy everybody. I have no doubt that no matter what happens, we'll be subjected to several posters whining about how awful it was and how it just didn't measure up to.... well, they don't quite know but they do know it should have been better, dadgumit! And that's the thing. This is one guy's vision, not yours. I'm perfectly happy to let him tell the story he wants to tell and I'm quite sure I'm going to frakkin' love it no matter how or even if all the major plotlines are resolved to my high-fallutin' satisfaction. I'm just grateful we got something this good to enjoy and talk about these last 6 years. Judging by the anemic ratings, and the comments from some here who just never got what the show was really about, it's more than we deserved.

that's kinda the point for many of us. We've been through this whole thing and have seen great storytelling and compelling characters...only to see it all fall apart at the end.

It's not that we didn't appreciate what the show is truly about, it's that we feel like it's dropped the ball and done so at the climax.

I think we have every right to be disappointed that it's not meeting our expectations as our expectations were built up by what came before.

dfergie

03-16-09, 01:45 PM

Great post GrouchoDude, best I've seen on many forums about the end of Battlestar Galactica...

philw1776

03-16-09, 01:48 PM

GrouchoDude

03-16-09, 01:49 PM

that's kinda the point for many of us. We've been through this whole thing and have seen great storytelling and compelling characters...only to see it all fall apart at the end.

I absolutely could not disagree more. It's all coming together at the end as all these plotlines converge and resolve. If you can't see that, then you've really missed the whole point of the show. I might suggest the original series for those who feel the way you do; it's a bit easier to follow.

GrouchoDude

03-16-09, 01:58 PM

+1
For example the fact that RDM & Co admitted that they had not set up the story with the Final Five known to the writers demonstrated a "we'll write each episode for itself" mentality which sometimes succeeds but often dissapoints.

I think you're not giving them enough credit. They had a pretty good idea that the Chief was going to end up as a Cylon from as far back as the counseling scene with Cavil. Clearly, they knew what they were going to do with Starbuck and entire concept of "all this has happened before and will all happen again" much earlier than that, the culmination of which will be revealed in a few days. Remarkable stuff, all of it.

RDM has stated repeatedly that he had a general idea where the story was going to go from the beginning. But nobody can plan out every single detail up front in something as complex and necessarily flexible as a television show, and this was simply as good, and at least as complex, as serialized television has ever been. They didn't start with an end-date. The brilliance comes from creating a good enough outline so that the details can be filled in with confidence and authenticity as the show evolves. No doubt that mission has been accomplished.

clevername

03-16-09, 02:40 PM

I absolutely could not disagree more. It's all coming together at the end as all these plotlines converge and resolve. If you can't see that, then you've really missed the whole point of the show. I might suggest the original series for those who feel the way you do; it's a bit easier to follow.

dude, that's the kind of crap we're talking about.

I guess you're just better than us, huh? Us simpletons just can't grasp the grand storytelling they're throwing up on the screen right now?

I'm checking out of this thread. It's useless. I'm sure snide remarks will follow.

lax01

03-16-09, 03:23 PM

new special tonight on Sci-Fi BTW!

Can't wait!

RolandOG

03-16-09, 03:27 PM

We're having a great discussion here, with plenty of people on either side of the argument. As long as we keep it civil then no one needs to check out.

I'm just glad we have a show that creates this kind of passion.

GrouchoDude

03-16-09, 03:49 PM

I guess you're just better than us, huh? Us simpletons just can't grasp the grand storytelling they're throwing up on the screen right now?

If the shoe fits... :rolleyes: Not better than you anyway, just appear to have been paying more attention, that's all. This season has been brilliant - from the destruction of the hub and all that implied for the Cylon race, to the thrilling mutiny arc, to the shocking reveal of Ellen being the Fifth (nobody picked her in our poll), to this final countdown to the endgame. From some of these postings, you'd think some people must have been watching a different show altogether. I can certainly see why they might have preferred the original series, where the balls weren't thrown nearly as high in the air. This remake had much higher aspirations. And it has reached them, IMHO, nearly every week.

Sneezy

03-16-09, 03:56 PM

GrouchoDude

03-16-09, 04:05 PM

I thought this about 10 seconds after they started talking about having to jump in close to a singularity.

It's an easy out. I hope we are wrong. Given the amount of time they have to wrap this up it looks like the best answer.

Many of us have long thought it had to be something along those lines. No other way to explain Kara, her premonitions and Roslin's, and a host of other similar stuff. There have been a lot of theories floating around the Internet and almost all of them will turn out to be wrong. Some will be right. Big deal. It's RDM's show and I'm on board with whatever he comes up with as long as it doesn't involve supernatural beings. That's the only thing that would scream "cop-out" to me. Anything else, I'm fine with it.

dc_pilgrim

03-16-09, 04:08 PM

It's RDM's show and I'm on board with whatever he comes up with as long as it doesn't involve supernatural beings. That's the only thing that would scream "cop-out" to me. Anything else, I'm fine with it.

What if he fades to black and starts playing Journey?

GrouchoDude

03-16-09, 04:19 PM

What if he fades to black and starts playing Journey?

You're asking the wrong guy. I'm one of the half dozen fans who actually loved 'The Sopranos' ending and thought it was pure genius. :p

But if the reactions of the actors and production team as they wrapped filming the finale last summer is any indication, we should be just fine. Apparently, the script was incredible and there wasn't a dry eye in the house. I don't expect any here in my house, either. ;)

whitestang06

03-16-09, 04:20 PM

IF they decided to go with a time travel route; Kara would probably end up on Earth shortly before the apocalypse. She would teach Sam the song her father played for her and warn him of the coming disaster. The remaining few others could end up on Kobol in the distant past.

Seriously doubt this is the case. But I did think that Ellen would end up being the final cylon way back at the end of season 3, but shrugged it off as unlikely. You never really know where this show is going to go, until they go there.:)

edpowers

03-16-09, 04:37 PM

What happened to Palladin? Instead of saying the same thing over and over, I agree with his posts 8144 and 8148. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15886383#post15886383) They were written nearly a month ago and my opinion hasn't changed much since then. I wonder if he still feels the same way?

vurbano

03-16-09, 05:48 PM

new special tonight on Sci-Fi BTW!

Can't wait!Yup

ScifiHD
Battlestar Galactica: The Last Frakkin Special 10 pm 3.16

petergaryr

03-16-09, 05:50 PM

... I'm on board with whatever he comes up with as long as it doesn't involve supernatural beings. That's the only thing that would scream "cop-out" to me. Anything else, I'm fine with it.

....well, you never know. Deus Ex Machina does loosely translate as "god from the machine" and if that's not an open invitation for a supernatural Cylon to step forward and say, "Behold!".....:D

moob

03-16-09, 06:20 PM

What if he fades to black and starts playing Journey?

I'll be honest...as much as I love BSG, if Moore ever did that (and I know he said he liked that ending), my opinion of the show would drop so damn fast...

lax01

03-16-09, 06:41 PM

What if he fades to black and starts playing Journey?

I'd laugh and then throw something at the TV

acksnay

03-16-09, 06:41 PM

Sci Fi Channel Has a New Name: Now, It’s Syfy

<<< shudder >>>

Back in the day, we Locus Magazine circle of true fans (THE FEN) referred to science fiction as "SF", while the posers (FUGHEADS) called it "SciFi".

"SyFy" is just wrong on so many levels.

moob

03-16-09, 06:51 PM

I'd laugh and then throw something at the TV

I'd throw the damn tv.

Iteki

03-16-09, 06:59 PM

What if he fades to black and starts playing Journey?

Nah, RDM actually has a set of cojones and isn't afraid to write an actual ending. :-)

humdinger70

03-16-09, 07:37 PM

<<< shudder >>>

Back in the day, we Locus Magazine circle of true fans (THE FEN) referred to science fiction as "SF", while the posers (FUGHEADS) called it "SciFi".

"SyFy" is just wrong on so many levels.

I got a feeling it may get pronounced by a few as S-IF-EEE (rhymes with Sippee).

humdinger70

03-16-09, 07:39 PM

Black hole. Nearby naked singularity. Raging battle on the edge.

I just a got a feeling it's going to end badly for everyone - both humans and cylons (and for viewers).

Htdude14

03-16-09, 07:52 PM

As long as they skip the extened scenes of Adama brushing his teeth, or the Pres. jogging or any of the other "brilliant" filler that has passed for actual writing this season then I'll be happy. :D

"Lost"

03-16-09, 07:58 PM

Lost... Then again, you could have just said they fly directly into the Black Hole and all get spaghettified, rather than saying all get composted -- same effect, more accurate... I mean, yaneverknow when Neil DeGrasse Tyson or one of his colleagues might decide to hop onto this thread... We certainly don't want one of THEM lecturing us! :p:eek::o
Spagetified just doesn't sound as good and crude as "composted" that word was chosen for its low brow effect..

Now BRING on THE Frakkin space BATTLES... Hope at some point it lives up to its name.. Sorry I tried to do every other word in caps to make a point, its hard to do. Smiley

dcowboy7

03-16-09, 08:35 PM

You're asking the wrong guy. I'm one of the half dozen fans who actually loved 'The Sopranos' ending and thought it was pure genius.

what a shock.

loco

03-16-09, 08:35 PM

jamieva

03-16-09, 08:37 PM

Plot holes...nothing but plot holes and arcs dropped for no apparent reason.

"Lost"

03-16-09, 08:40 PM

Steve Scherrer

03-16-09, 08:44 PM

Plot holes...nothing but plot holes and arcs dropped for no apparent reason.

I assume you are talking about that spoiler. I don't see how it is a plot hole. It just means that the answer is something else than what many of us were speculating.

michaeltscott

03-16-09, 08:45 PM

Ron Moore's podcast for "Islanded in a Stream of Stars" was just posted. In it, he shoots down a popular theory that many fans have jumped on, including me.Ha! I always thought that was a red herring! I'm happy :).

loco

03-16-09, 08:52 PM

I did not intend to insinuate anything negative about the show in my post. I'm slightly disappointed that I was wrong, but I've been wrong about a lot of things where this show is concerned. :) That doesn't mean the writing was bad or there was a plot hole.

Just thought some might be interested that he said what he said. He seems to be concerned that people might be distracted if they go into the finale expecting to be proven right on this particular point. Not sure why he's picked this particular thing to clear up ahead of time, but maybe all will be made obvious after Friday night.

dad1153

03-16-09, 08:54 PM

From Fredfa's "Hot Off The Press" thread at the top of the 'HDTV Programming' Page:

TV Notes
Viewers ridicule Sci Fi's name change
From James Hibberd's Hollywood Reporter 'Live Feed' Blog - March 16, 2009

NBC Universal’s decision to jettison the Sci Fi Channel brand was met with an outpouring of fanboy ridicule Monday, as viewers took to Twitter and message boards to register their disdain for the new Syfy label.

The Internet has been crackling with indignation since the release hit the wires at around 9 a.m. Monday morning that the 16-year-old cable network will change its name in July. Comments on Twitter have ranged from slangy incredulity (“WTF? What kind of stuff are you marketroids at Sci Fi smoking?”) to hyperbole (“Syfy makes me vomit tears”).

On AintItCoolNews, fans were merciless, with many saying the name sounded like a lot of things -- except a sci-fi-themed cable network.

"Sounds like the name of a water bottling company," wrote one.

"Sounds like some kind of mop, blender, or gossip magazine," wrote another.

And this was the most frequent negative interpretation: "Sounds like slang for syphilis," a viewer wrote, with fans agreeing "siffy" seems a more appropriate pronunciation for the network's new name than "sci fi."

Even on Sci Fi's own boards, comments were overwhelmingly negative. "Just change the name to USA2 and be done with it already," one wrote.

Even some media got in on the action: "What the frak are they thinking?" asked Wired. "Dumbest rebranding ever," declared Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.

According to the online Twendz application, which analyzes the sentiments informing active Twitter conversations, 46 percent of the tweets related to the Sci Fi rebrand were negative, while just 14 percent were supportive.

With the network's biggest buzz-magnet "Battlestar Galactica" airing its series finale this week, plenty of fans swore they'd cease watching the network after the show concludes. One Twitter user posed what could well be the $64,000 question for the channel’s brass: “Now that BSG [Battlestar Galactica] is off the air, is anyone going to watch Sci Fi/syfy?

The network was prepared for a certain amount of ribbing about the name. "Our core audience will use it an opportunity to question our motives," said network president Dave Howe on Friday, "they always do."

But it's the kind of backlash Sci Fi doesn't exactly need right now. While most basic cable networks have seen their ratings growing year over year, Sci Fi has flatlined among adults 18-49, swinging between a 0.4 and a 0.5 quarterly average for the past three years.

By Anthony Crupi and James Hibberd.

http://www.thrfeed.com/2009/03/viewers-bash-sci-fis-name-change.html

moob

03-16-09, 09:01 PM

I assume you are talking about that spoiler. I don't see how it is a plot hole. It just means that the answer is something else than what many of us were speculating.

Yep.

I jumped on that theory too because it made sense, but it's not a plot hole if the answer is something else entirely.

dad1153

03-16-09, 09:31 PM

From Fredfa's "Hot Off The Press" thread at the top of the 'HDTV Programming' Page:

TV Notes
'Battlestar Galactica' season finale screened in New York
Los Angeles Times - March 16, 2009

A very small audience in New York — about a hundred people — saw the final cut of the two-hour season finale of "Battlestar Galactica" on Monday evening. The episode had been flown on the red eye from Los Angeles the previous evening. Mark Stern, the executive VP in charge of original programming for the network that we now apparently are supposed to call "Syfy," said he had not even seen it; this would probably be the only screening before the show aired, he said.

An NDA and an oral pledge by the audience prevents these attendees — nearly all of them media, many from trade publications — from describing the episode in any way. The pledge was conducted by creator Ron Moore, who made each attendee at the New York Times' Times Center raise his right hand and repeat: "I swear not to reveal any of the spoilers I see tonight."

Why the red eye, Mr. Moore — why so last minute, when shooting was concluded last summer? "A lot of last-minute visual effects getting dropped in, we need that ****ing shot, where's that shot, no, go back and do this again, a lot of sound effects — it was just a mad scramble," he said. "I think the lion's share in the last week was done by our visual effects guys and girls who were just sitting in a dark room staring into monitors for like literally 24 hours. They just never took a day off for the last four weeks or something. ... We just beat the **** out of them. They really gave it their all."

Gosh, that sounds <i>expensive</i>! "Oh, yeah. We sort of raped the treasury of Universal for the last one," he said. "Universal stepped up. The network was, 'Fine, make it three hours! But somebody has to pay for it and it ain't going to be us.' And the studio, in particular Todd Sharp, our head of production, they went back, they crunched numbers, and they came up with a whole extra hour of money to do it with. That's an amazing thing for these corporations that are supposed to be heartless and not care about anything but the bottom line."

There was a Q&A after the screening; pretty much each of the answers and the questions, and even the offhand remarks, concerned events of the episode and would constitute a spoiler, and so they won't be repeated.

After the screening, Moore went out for a cigarette. Did he have plans to quit? "I am a social smoker, at best," he said. "I really only smoke when I'm around actors."

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2009/03/battlestar-ga-2.html

SkyLite

03-16-09, 09:36 PM

I'm thinking that the ending of BSG has to be something no one thought of in order for everyone to be happy with it.

:D

rolltide1017

03-16-09, 10:05 PM

As long as they skip the extened scenes of Adama brushing his teeth, or the Pres. jogging or any of the other "brilliant" filler that has passed for actual writing this season then I'll be happy. :D

It is not filler IMO, it is called character moments. BSG has been filled with them for 4 years now so, why now, at the end of all things, are people starting to hate on this premise. This is what has made this show stand above every other SyFy show before it and the reason I have fallen in love with BSG.

SyFy, what a stupid name. I'm going to be embarssed to watch the channel with that name. It looks too girly now, ranks rightup there with Style and Lifetime IMO. Please don't change it SciFi!

SkyLite

03-16-09, 10:14 PM

Why didn't they call it: PsiPhi ???

rolltide1017

03-16-09, 10:19 PM

Or call it the "No more BSG, please don't go viewers" channel.

ec2546

03-16-09, 10:38 PM

Thanks so much for posting that link, Steve... Great to see some of us not only have some cultural literacy, but even have some actual LINKS to it -- instead of just bashing things they don't understand like a kid chasing frogs with a hammer.
Jeff

Actually that link was pretty useless. Just because it's printed on some bizzarre website obsessed with death doesn't give it any validity. I was looking for something a little more substantial. I could find webpages about vampires more authoritative than that.

SkyLite

03-16-09, 10:42 PM

Hamburger!!

Nice to see you again. :)

ec2546

03-16-09, 10:57 PM

If the shoe fits... :rolleyes: Not better than you anyway, just appear to have been paying more attention, that's all. This season has been brilliant - from the destruction of the hub and all that implied for the Cylon race, to the thrilling mutiny arc, to the shocking reveal of Ellen being the Fifth (nobody picked her in our poll), to this final countdown to the endgame. From some of these postings, you'd think some people must have been watching a different show altogether. I can certainly see why they might have preferred the original series, where the balls weren't thrown nearly as high in the air. This remake had much higher aspirations. And it has reached them, IMHO, nearly every week.

I still say this is one of the best shows on TV in the last 10 years. Easily.

I completely disagree with this assessment, however. This season has been anything but brilliant. There are maybe 2 hours total of on-screen material this year that deserve any critical acclaim whatsoever. The rest has been dreck, including the mutiny. You could have slept through most of Season 4.5 and not missed anything. You could have woken up last week for the final 3 episodes, been told, "Ellen is the 5th cylon," and been right on track for the finale with everyone else.

Calling Season 4.5 "brilliant" is just bizarre. :confused: Accusing someone who doesn't agree with you of not paying attention is very elitist and condescending on your part.

RolandOG

03-16-09, 11:01 PM

As long as they skip the extened scenes of Adama brushing his teeth, or the Pres. jogging or any of the other "brilliant" filler that has passed for actual writing this season then I'll be happy. :D

Wasn't the scene with him brushing his teeth (or washing his face) when he looked up and saw that the structural damage to Galactica had made it all the way to his quarters? If not that exact scene then one very similar. That scene led to him giving the order to apply the cylon goo. Seems like it had a point to me. I greatly prefer something like that to Adama just walking up to Tyrol and saying, "you know, I changed my mind Chief. Let's use the goo". That's faster and moves the plot along, but it's less satisfying to me. Sometimes the small moments are what lead to the big ones.

I don't want to give the impression that I don't like the action. I do as much as the next guy. I agree that there have been some slow episodes this season. All I'm trying to say with my various posts is that I really enjoy seeing the quieter moments because more often or not they lend validity to some of the big character or plot moments.

RolandOG

03-16-09, 11:06 PM

I still say this is one of the best shows on TV in the last 10 years. Easily.

I completely disagree with this assessment, however. This season has been anything but brilliant. There are maybe 2 hours total of on-screen material this year that deserve any critical acclaim whatsoever. The rest has been dreck, including the mutiny. You could have slept through most of Season 4.5 and not missed anything. You could have woken up last week for the final 3 episodes, been told, "Ellen is the 5th cylon," and been right on track for the finale with everyone else.

Calling Season 4.5 "brilliant" is just bizarre. :confused: Accusing someone who doesn't agree with you of not paying attention is very elitist and condescending on your part.

Respectfully, calling the mutiny 'dreck' is just as bizarre. I believe you are in the minority with that opinion.

ec2546

03-16-09, 11:09 PM

Black hole. Nearby naked singularity. Raging battle on the edge.

I just a got a feeling it's going to end badly for everyone - both humans and cylons (and for viewers).

I actually have high expectations for the finale. But the image of a blackhole we know from popular science and artists' concepts does resemble the mandela from the Eye of Jupiter temple, and that Starbuck painted, and then crashed her Viper into on the gas giant planet.

Black holes usually form in the aftermath of a massive star going supernova. Nebula are formed in the wake of supernovas. Both of those phenomena have figured prominently in the RTF's search for Earth.

The accretion disk that looked like an asteroid belt near the colony reminds me of another famous line in space: "My ship is dragging mines". I expect better than that, though.

petergaryr

03-16-09, 11:15 PM

ec2546

03-16-09, 11:16 PM

Ron Moore's podcast for "Islanded in a Stream of Stars" was just posted. In it, he shoots down a popular theory that many fans have jumped on, including me.

Daniel is not Kara's father or Baltar's father. From what RDM said, he will not have any further bearing on the show.

I called that one weeks ago. They needed to explain away the lack of a Number Seven model. Nothing more and nothing less. Sad how many brain cells were burnt out trying to make it into something it wasn't. At leat you have the courage to admit you were wrong. Thousands of others will not admit they were wrong. They'll just pretend like it never happened. Props to you.

Is something that doesn't come to pass, in contradiction to overactive fanwankers' imaginations, actually a spoiler?

ec2546

03-16-09, 11:19 PM

Yep.

I jumped on that theory too because it made sense, but it's not a plot hole if the answer is something else entirely.

There is no answer. It's not a plot hole. It's not even a spoiler. The only thing it "is" is a bunch of fanwankers being wrong. It wasn't a theory that "made sense" any more than a thousand other theories that have been proven wrong. Daniel was invented for 2 minutes of dialogue to explain away the missing Cylon Skin Job Model #7. End of story and you were wrong. Trying now to rationalize it away isn't going to help rehab your image in the eyes of those of us who knew it was a bad theory from the start.

SkyLite

03-16-09, 11:22 PM

Richard Hatch is fraking off.

ec2546

03-16-09, 11:23 PM

That was a good special tonight. There were some brief splashes of what some would be considered spoilers, so I'd recommend recording it and watching it after Friday.

It was great watching cast reactions to the show coming to an end.

A friend of mine said the same thing. Problem is, Siffee probably won't show it again after Friday.

ec2546

03-16-09, 11:30 PM

Respectfully, calling the mutiny 'dreck' is just as bizarre. I believe you are in the minority with that opinion.

I know I am, but IMO it was 2 episodes of filler I could have done without. The absurd way in which 4 people with only a couple of weapons defeat the mutineers and re-take the ship was too much. Adama said, "There will be no amnesty". Then last Friday... voila! Amnesty! That pushed it over the edge for me. The writers needed a storyline for a couple of episodes. It wasn't that compelling, and ultimately not important at all. Except that they used it as an excuse for the next great absurdity: arming Baltar's Babes because they were short on security types as a result.

"Lost"

03-16-09, 11:35 PM

Richard Hatch is fraking off.

He's not the only one. :D Did they forget to pass out the meds at the asylum. :eek:

SkyLite

03-17-09, 12:06 AM

He's not the only one. :D Did they forget to pass out the meds at the asylum. :eek:

I was on a field trip that day.

Iteki

03-17-09, 12:43 AM

There is no answer. It's not a plot hole. It's not even a spoiler. The only thing it "is" is a bunch of fanwankers being wrong. It wasn't a theory that "made sense" any more than a thousand other theories that have been proven wrong. Daniel was invented for 2 minutes of dialogue to explain away the missing Cylon Skin Job Model #7. End of story and you were wrong. Trying now to rationalize it away isn't going to help rehab your image in the eyes of those of us who knew it was a bad theory from the start.

I'll never understand this type of snobbery...people may not have liked the theory, but it was certainly a line of thought that could be explored without being made fun of. 'rehab your image'? Seriously? Congressmen who cheat on their wives and get caught have to rehab their image. Entertainers who make fools of themselves have to rehab their image. People who make an educated guess about the storyline of an obscure science fiction show(I love it dearly, but it is) can just say 'oops' and move on with their lives. :-)

JeffAHayes

03-17-09, 01:08 AM

Gawd, this thread suddenly caught fire! Took me forever to catch up, and by the time this is posted, there will likely be a dozen more postings I didn't get to read while catching up to post this one, lol!

What happened to Palladin? Instead of saying the same thing over and over, I agree with his posts 8144 and 8148. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15886383#post15886383) They were written nearly a month ago and my opinion hasn't changed much since then. I wonder if he still feels the same way?

Don't hold me to this, but I have a sneaking suspicion a certain "clevername" has somehow taken the place of a Palladin... Maybe not, but the posts read very similarly.

Why didn't they call it: PsiPhi ???

Now that's an EXCELLENT suggestion, SkyLite! Best I think anyone could have possibly come up with! I think it could be Trademarkable, even, because although both Psi and Phi are Greek letters, that sort of combination seems unique, and certainly using them together like that to spell "Sci-Fi" is... You should suggest that on their website, because I'm willing to bet their execs are already second-guessing SyFy! :D

As for all these debates about this and that, and what's bad and good, etc., I'm going to quit criticizing those of you who seem to find continual reasons to trash the show or elements of it -- we'll just agree to disagree. I do think that if you hate what's going on with the show so much there's really no point about grousing about it online, however -- especially after the fact -- since there's really nothing that can be done about it after the fact...

We come here to discuss points of the show -- elements, plotlines, issues and whatnot -- analyze and discuss the elements of the show. But what we say really likely has little or no impact on the actual content of the show, so what good does it do to grouse about it?

I was one of those who didn't care for the end of the "Sopranos," at least not initially. Today, I'm not sure. But I'll say this much for it -- it was VERY memorable -- possible one of the most memorable series finales in history, and perhaps that's what really counts, huh?

So, in the end, perhaps what will really count with the BSG finale won't be so much does it answer all our questions adequately, or is it "spectacular" enough, or does it meet all our expectations, but how memorable is it?

Time will tell.
Jeff

^5 on that response, Iteki!