I'll never understand this type of snobbery...people may not have liked the theory, but it was certainly a line of thought that could be explored without being made fun of. 'rehab your image'? Seriously? Congressmen who cheat on their wives and get caught have to rehab their image. Entertainers who make fools of themselves have to rehab their image. People who make an educated guess about the storyline of an obscure science fiction show(I love it dearly, but it is) can just say 'oops' and move on with their lives. :-)

Seriously.

If you read many of his posts they're extremely condescending.

Throughout this season, notable reviewers have given this show generally high praise with few exceptions. What's more, many of them also thought Starbuck's father was Daniel. I guess they need to "rehab their image" as well. :rolleyes:

I'm no recognized expert on human psychology, but my understanding is that generally people who feel the need to continually say negative things -- about either other people's work, or other people -- suffer from a high level of insecurity that gives them the need to belittle others (or the work of others) in an attempt to show how smart they are, but all they usually accomplish is to show how shallow, vain and insecure they are.

Again, this is not to say that many of the negative comments aren't without merit. As to whether they're necessary or serve any useful purpose to either this forum, it's members and BSG fans, or the show in general, I would say that's a definite NO.
Jeff

C'mon its not kosher to talk about the content in the spoiler tags in a way that removes all doubt as to what the original post was about.

We come here to discuss points of the show -- elements, plotlines, issues and whatnot -- analyze and discuss the elements of the show. But what we say really likely has little or no impact on the actual content of the show, so what good does it do to grouse about it?

I was one of those who didn't care for the end of the "Sopranos," at least not initially. Today, I'm not sure. But I'll say this much for it -- it was VERY memorable -- possible one of the most memorable series finales in history, and perhaps that's what really counts, huh?

So is the Sopranos somehow different than BSG? You say 'what good does it do to grouse about it?' and then in the very next paragraph you 'grouse' about the Sopranos finale. Many people on this forum who have written their frustration with the last half-season have commented that its still one of their favorite shows. Just because many are frustrated and disappointed with recent episodes doesn't mean they hate the show. And of course, nothing anybody says on this thread will make a difference ... but what does that have to do with anything? If all negative comments about this show were banned, this would be an incredibly boring thread.

I'm no recognized expert on human psychology, but my understanding is that generally people who feel the need to continually say negative things -- about either other people's work, or other people -- suffer from a high level of insecurity that gives them the need to belittle others (or the work of others) in an attempt to show how smart they are, but all they usually accomplish is to show how shallow, vain and insecure they are.

Again, this is not to say that many of the negative comments aren't without merit. As to whether they're necessary or serve any useful purpose to either this forum, it's members and BSG fans, or the show in general, I wouldl say that's a definite NO.
Jeff

Its interesting because I have found that generally people who take a major Hollywood production so seriously that they defend it by trying to humanize it are quite delusional. I'd be willing to bet lots of money that the vast majority of people involved in creating BSG could care less that a few FANS on internet forums are disappointed in the final episodes. The idea that people who complain on this forum are 'belittling the work of others' is laughable.

Please enlighten us all with your holy definition of what this forum's useful purpose is.

Many people on this forum who have written their frustration with the last half-season have commented that its still one of their favorite shows. Just because many are frustrated and disappointed with recent episodes doesn't mean they hate the show.

Well, I think that's because there have been many comments on the order of: "This season has been soooo slow, nothing's happened, and I'm bored. WAH!" In fact, a great deal has happened as several of us have tried to point out. Yes, they've had to do a lot with exposition, but even that has been pretty cool in terms of how they've set it up and the big questions are being answered. And apparently they forget that the destruction of the Resurrection Hub, the Cylon civil war (which we saw little of, granted, but again - budget concerns), the reveal of the last Final Fiver, the thrilling mutiny arc, and the deaths of long-time recurring characters like Callie, Gaeta, and Zarak all occurred this season. What there hasn't been a lot of is.... space battles and other fancy vfx. <sigh> But this last season is more about the characters and how they're reacting to events swirling about the approaching endgame. If you just immerse yourself in those small moments, because they have been stellar, then maybe you'll find more satisfaction in the show. Because, basically, that's what it's always been about.

And I'm sure there will be plenty of wiz-bang effects in the finale, hopefully enough to satisfy the most ADD fan. Keep hope alive! :)

Actually that link was pretty useless. Just because it's printed on some bizzarre website obsessed with death doesn't give it any validity. I was looking for something a little more substantial. I could find webpages about vampires more authoritative than that.

Fine. You want more? Jesus H. Christ on a pogostick. I went out and got the first one that popped up on a google search. Not convinced? Check these out...

http://www.snopes.com/oldwives/bird.asp

http://members.tripod.com/~do_you_believe/super/superstions-A.html

http://www.timelessmyths.co.uk/birds-flying-into-homes-death.html

http://www.shawcreekbirdsupply.com/mythology.htm

Perhaps you think all of these lack the necessary authority. The fact is - the question was raised in what culture does someone believe a bird trapped in a house portends death, and I have cited a bunch of sites that discuss it as a pretty common myth or superstition.

I am sure you could accuse me of going overboard on this - but the belittling post by ec "raised my dander" as they say...

I would have preferred a happy medium between character and plot. Don't get me wrong, I have enjoyed this season a great deal. The writing has picked back up considerably, IMO. My only problem is that they aren't addressing the overall mythology nearly enough leading up to the finale.

Below are my thoughts on the special and the sort of spoilery parts of the special.

I guess they won't address head Six in the finale since he felt it necessary to divulge her true nature on a frakkin special about the show. Great. They also made me slightly more concerned about the answers not coming when they said "Forget the plot, this finale is about characters!" That's paraphrased obviously, but not off by much.

i liked when tory did an impersonation of her dad talking about her "scenes."

I've really been confused about the origins of the early cylons and that era. I assume that the humans on Kobol built Ellen and the original humanoid cylons. Was it ever explained why they left the humans on Kobol to populate Earth? And if resurrection technology was in place, why did only "the final five" resurrect and not more? Sorry if this has been addressed, I did search this thread, and other internet sites.

I have no idea how the show will end. Perhaps they could show all the principals sitting around a dinner table talking, then fading to black for 30 seconds before rolling the credits. Oh, wait, maybe not. Hasn't somebody else already done that? :)

I have no idea how the show will end. Perhaps they could show all the principals sitting around a dinner table talking, then fading to black for 30 seconds before rolling the credits. Oh, wait, maybe not. Hasn't somebody else already done that? :)

...well yeah, but Starbuck would have to be flying around looking for a landing spot for her Viper....

Perhaps you think all of these lack the necessary authority. The fact is - the question was raised in what culture does someone believe a bird trapped in a house portends death, and I have cited a bunch of sites that discuss it as a pretty common myth or superstition.

I am sure you could accuse me of going overboard on this - but the belittling post by ec "raised my dander" as they say...

LOL. Next he'll want verifiable proof that breaking a mirror is bad luck. You know, because the New York Times had a huge exposé on the topic and you can link to it to prove it.

Seriously...how do you prove a superstition like that? I suppose the fact that several of us have heard it before (I heard it as a kid) is meaningless...

This has me moist (don't you love the word moist?) with anticipation: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jack-myers/battlestar-galactica-fina_b_175626.html

The most politically engaging, culturally relevant, socially entertaining and spiritually rewarding experience I had this past week was watching the two-hour finale of Battlestar Galactica, at a special press screening hosted by Sci Fi network, which announced yesterday it would soon be called Syfy. Without sharing any of the details about the two-hour conclusion to be aired this Friday, it ranks among the best - if not the best - of all series grand finales.

:eek:

I have no idea how the show will end. Perhaps they could show all the principals sitting around a dinner table talking, then fading to black for 30 seconds before rolling the credits.
Each character will sing a song about their plight. It will end with a big dance number, like a Broadway production. It will be faaaaabulous!

I've really been confused about the origins of the early cylons and that era. I assume that the humans on Kobol built Ellen and the original humanoid cylons. Was it ever explained why they left the humans on Kobol to populate Earth? And if resurrection technology was in place, why did only "the final five" resurrect and not more? Sorry if this has been addressed, I did search this thread, and other internet sites.

They 13th colony was all humanoid cylons. They left for earth and during the journey/colonization they gained the ability to procreate naturally, but lost the ability to resurrect. The Final Five were given a warning that a war was coming and that they needed to reinvent the Resurrection technology. They succeeded just in time and were resurrected when they were killed in their own war with machines. (centurions)

They 13th colony was all humanoid cylons. They left for earth and during the journey/colonization they gained the ability to procreate naturally, but lost the ability to resurrect.I think that it was said that they abandoned ressurection. If they achieved human rates of reproduction and kept ressurection at all, it would have had to have been reserved for a select few. It'd be standing room only if everyone who was born over the past thousand years was still alive.

I think the point has been made that the Cylons can reproduce biologically when they are in love. I think that will be the hidden key to the ending. Everyone fighting will die and only the few truely in love will survive to create the next generation.

The Ellen Tigh generation had learned to reproduce using love, and resurrection technology fell out of use. The final five reinvented the resurrection tech just in time before the attack on earth.

This implies that there has to be at least three generations of organic cylons around at the time. "it happened before and will happen again".

The really, really dark ending could be the death of all organic life
and we will be left with a scene of centurians working on the next generation of human-like cylon life, implying life came from mechanical, not the opposite. I expect all in the rescue to die and a civil war/power stuggle will take out the rest of the fleet by Baltar's minions. They were given lots of guns earlier in the season.

I think the point has been made that the Cylons can reproduce biologically when they are in love. I think that will be the hidden key to the ending. Everyone fighting will die and only the few truely in love will survive to create the next generation.

The Ellen Tigh generation had learned to reproduce using love, and resurrection technology fell out of use. The final five reinvented the resurrection tech just in time before the attack on earth.

This implies that there has to be at least three generations of organic cylons around at the time. "it happened before and will happen again".

The really, really dark ending could be the death of all organic life
and we will be left with a scene of centurians working on the next generation of human-like cylon life, implying life came from mechanical, not the opposite. I expect all in the rescue to die and a civil war/power stuggle will take out the rest of the fleet by Baltar's minions. They were given lots of guns earlier in the season.

Uh, huh... I can see it right now -- one of them will even be hopping around on one leg with a machine-gun attached at the knee on the other leg, using a grenade launcher to propel herself great distances and then landing and spinning a full 360 on her but-tocks (as Forrest Gump would pronounce them) with the machine gun going full-force, wiping out everyone in sight -- probably including a wide-eyed Baltar and half of her other "sisters in arms" :eek: Heck, maybe they could even get Rose McGowan to guest star for that! :p

As for some of these other, continuing, back-and-forth snipes... GEESH! First, since when does admitting that you didn't like (at least not at first) the original series finale of a different show (just to make a point) qualify as GROUSING about it? That wasn't "grousing" at all -- it was simply mentioning a past fact that a rather mild disapproval at the time and today is, in fact, a compliment because I think it made the ending so memorable... But someone else had to grasp at straws to make HIS point... Just as another poster who apparently never heard of birds flying indoors being bad luck (like most of us had) couldn't take one online source as an example and felt he needed to post what appeared to me (and others) to be an attack on the character and credibility of someone I see as a very credible and respected poster on this forum -- and one of the few besides me who ALSO uses his REAL NAME, so he can't hide behind an internet alias... And Steve was very well within his rights to be so irritated and feel so defensive as to come back with all those extra links he posted, although I'm beginning to think it's just a waste of time responding to posters like that.

And No, I don't think it's "off-limits" or not OK to post negative comments or say what you DON'T like about the show or various episodes or plotlines... That is all part of our discussion and analysis, as well... But this apparent need some folks have as the series comes to an end to just continually bash "where the show is heading," or "how they're wasting our time," well, I'll say it again, for those who need to read it more than once: We don't know whether they've wasted our time, or not, until "the fat lady sings!"

After the final episode ends Friday, if we still see reasons they could have put "other things" in these last few episodes than what they did, I think we can debate that until our fingers turn blue. Until then, why are we having this debate? Worse yet, why are some people calling others names or casting aspersions about them over it???
Jeff

I think that it was said that they abandoned ressurection. If they achieved human rates of reproduction and kept ressurection at all, it would have had to have been reserved for a select few. It'd be standing room only if everyone who was born over the past thousand years was still alive.

Semantics...whether they abandoned it intentionally or not, the knowledge had been lost. It took the Final Five to bring it back, and just in time.

Looking forward to next week...I have all 4 hours recording (special, repeat of Pt I, and Pt. II). It's been a great ride...I'll be sorry to see it go. :-(

33 wasn't even the best episode of season 1 (That goes to Flesh and Bone in my book), much less the series.

Fair enough. Stack Flesh and Bone up against any other later season episode.

My primary defense of 33 is that the episode is pure tension. And, yeah, I'm well aware that endless pure tension becomes a form of self-parody (24, anyone?).

But, the entire Season 1 story arc is perfect.

You start with the most basic adventure story premise: how the frak are our heroes gonna get out of this mess? Then they get out of that mess, and another. Then with Flesh and Bone we discover some of the true nature of the enemy. Then Hand of God where, finally, our heroes land some serious punches after dangling in the ropes the whole fight. Victory leads to big oh-noes with the discovery the Cylon fleet at Kobol. Further victory leads to best cliffhanger ever: Boomer shoots Adama.

Each season of BSG has become successively more incoherent. And the only time they really leveraged that incoherence effectively was the big reveal at the nebula at the end of season 3.

As for Cain, I thought it was perfect. Her complete abandonment of humanity and morality led to a completely meaningless and cold death.

Couldn't disagree more.

I loved Cain. Why? Because Adama at his worst is a weak player's coach limping along on the strength of popularity at the end of his career.

The Cain vs Adama plot worked because you've watched something like 20 straight episodes of Bill Adama's Drunken Sex Den Playhouse, and Cain in an entirely different managerial style. She's straight-laced, clean cut, results-driven. She wants dead Cylons. She rewards those who do it. She punishes those who don't.

And, frankly, Cain makes a better villain than any of the Cylons ever did.

You're asking the wrong guy. I'm one of the half dozen fans who actually loved 'The Sopranos' ending and thought it was pure genius. :p

Agreed, even though ending the Sopranos was mostly a mercy killing that came many years too late. The show was never the same after they killed Big Pussy (which is sad, because I hate when shows avoid the inevitable facts of what their characters must do, and the Sopranos didn't shy away).

Black hole. Nearby naked singularity. Raging battle on the edge. I just a got a feeling it's going to end badly for everyone - both humans and cylons (and for viewers).

It would certainly be a perfect full tragedy ending, especially in the face of Ellen's repeated insistence that the goal was to end the cycle of man vs machine.

I've really been confused about the origins of the early cylons and that era.

Actually, the cycle is implied to have gone on so long that the whole story is kind of a bad recursion joke gone terribly wrong (how a recursion joke could go right, I'm not really sure). No one knows who created who first.

Actually, the cycle is implied to have gone on so long that the whole story is kind of a bad recursion joke gone terribly wrong (how a recursion joke could go right, I'm not really sure). No one knows who created who first.

Yeah!

Who cares if it was "the chicken or the egg?"

I just want me some chicken 'n' waffles with a fried egg on the side! :p

It just came to me that during the sports interview with Anders, he spoke about qualities similar to being a machine which sound an awful lot like Cavils diatribe about being a skinjob and would rather be a robot. Sounds a lot like Cavil was fashioned after Anders. ....and guess whose plugged into the BSG heading to do battle with Cavil?

Fair enough. Stack Flesh and Bone up against any other later season episode.

Well, like I said, I think the later seasons were the best, so there are quite a few episodes that I think are better. ;)

Though I do have to admit that in the later seasons, it's more about complete story arcs as opposed to individual episodes. For instance, while Occupation/Precipice were fantastic, the first 6 episodes of season 3 as a whole were perhaps the best tv I've ever seen. The Pegasus arc falls in there as well, along with the last 4 episodes of season 3 and the first 5 episodes of 4.5.



By the way, this had me rolling (local DJs on KROQ which is a local radio station here in LA which is actually pretty well known): http://kroq-data.com/wah/wah/audio/?a=1248

It's about 19 minutes in where they start talking about SciFi changing their name and start talking about BSG instead. It's great because it sounds like they were already hammered for St. Patrick's day. Dialogue for much of the show was pretty adult though...lots of bleeps. lol And some of the jokes go back to earlier conversations. Just listen to the full 20 minutes and laugh a lot. :p Pretty politically incorrect though.

I think I figured out the whol Cara mystery. The body she found on earth is actually herself, only she hasn't died yet. At some point in the finale her viper will go through the blackhole (maybe they all will) and will end up back in time in the vicinity of earth. She crashes and dies in the past, whic allows her future self to find her dead body in the season premier.

...that's making my head hurt. :)

I think I figured out the whol Cara mystery. The body she found on earth is actually herself, only she hasn't died yet. At some point in the finale her viper will go through the blackhole (maybe they all will) and will end up back in time in the vicinity of earth. She crashes and dies in the past, whic allows her future self to find her dead body in the season premier.

Then explain the mint condition viper she returned in.

It was parked next to the mint condition Mk I Raider ...

v/r,
C-F

Then explain the mint condition viper she returned in.

And her line, "I've been to earth, and I will take you there." or something like that at the Season 3 finale.

Not to mention her "feelings" that they were going the wrong way...

Then explain the mint condition viper she returned in.

That's the one that's had me scratching my noggin the most. Has to have something to do with the disruption of space/time by the singularity. The question is whether it was deliberately planned by someone or something to help achieve some larger goal, or just some weird quantum accident.

Sorry, but there was definitely a sophisticated intelligence involved in the Kara mystery. She's gone for months after her Viper was observed to have exploded, yet she shows up in their path (when she had no means of locating them) with no memory of having been gone for more than a day or so. She comes back in a mint condition replica of her Viper with an obsession about leading them to Earth and an absolute certainty that they're going the wrong way, though she doesn't know exactly where it is. Her brand new Viper can hear the weak distress beacon from her old Viper when no other piece of communication equipment on Galactica can.

If they explain that to my satisfaction, I don't care about any of the rest.

If they explain that to my satisfaction, I don't care about any of the rest.

Ah, yes. But that's going to be the big question isn't it? Will things be explained to everyone's satisfaction? I think we know the answer to that. ;)

Though I do have to admit that in the later seasons, it's more about complete story arcs as opposed to individual episodes. For instance, while Occupation/Precipice were fantastic, the first 6 episodes of season 3 as a whole were perhaps the best tv I've ever seen. The Pegasus arc falls in there as well, along with the last 4 episodes of season 3 and the first 5 episodes of 4.5.

I never liked the New Caprica story arc. Outside of the Stabuck-Leoben plot, it didn't advance the story much. Also, the story is too tangential. Had they committed to it longer, maybe. Personally, I would have preferred they pursue it as a side story set on old Caprica, not dissimilar to the way they revisited Caprica in the first two seasons.

And her line, "I've been to earth, and I will take you there." or something like that at the Season 3 finale. Not to mention her "feelings" that they were going the wrong way...

I actually think Starbuck is dead and reborn. One, because they don't actually outline that the resurrection technology is exclusively a Cylon thing. Remember, there's so much intermingling between the Cylons, the humans and even the gods on Kobol that determining who is what and who can do what is muddled. I think Starbuck's death is sort of a cleansing. She had this dark cloud over her and she had to be reborn to lose it.

I don't think the ending's going to be as dark as some people predict.

One, because RDM and Co like unpredictable plot twists. There's nothing more predictable than the Hamlet ending (everybody dies). In fact, it would render the entire show basically a ship of fools story, and make it a lot more lame when watched as a whole.

Two, because I think a lot of the foundation is already laid down for a happier ending. We've pretty much established that whatever force is driving all these events wants everyone to accept their deaths and embrace the end. There's a lot of touchy feely crossing over stuff laid down already. If season 4 has a theme, I'd say it is about accepting what you are. That has to figure in the final equation.

Three, I just don't think a full-on tragic ending is meaningful enough. Aside from Ellen's grand project to end all man vs robot wars -- a late interjection from a character who the audience does not empathize with in the slightest -- there's no reason to care for a total tragic ending.

Then explain the mint condition viper she returned in.

meh.....details......i was hoping no one caught that. ;)

I honestly have no idea.

From Fredfa's "Hot Off The Press" thread at the top of the 'HDTV Programming' page:

TV Notes
'Battlestar Galactica's' trip to the United Nations
From Maureen Ryan's Chicago Tribune 'The Watcher' Blog - March 18, 2009

It seemed fitting that the rag-tag fleet’s journey ended at the United Nations.

Since the debut of “Battlestar Galactica,” which ends its run in spectacular style on Friday (8 p.m. Central, Sci Fi; four stars), the drama has depicted the remnants of humanity in a desperate struggle for survival. During the course of four seasons, they not only endured the worst that their Cylon enemies had to dish out, they discovered the darkest impulses that lurked in their own hearts.

http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/.a/6a00d834518cc969e201127975172028a4-200wi

As a method of resistance, they used suicide bombers. To get information, they tortured Cylons. When they suspected treason, they turned on each other and tossed traitors out the ship’s airlock. They constantly struggled to balance human rights with the precarious security of the fleet, which started out with around 50,000 survivors but lost thousands along the way.

“We saw … good people making really ugly choices,” moderator Whoopi Goldberg said near the end of Tuesday’s two-hour panel on the show at the United Nations.

The panel, which included executive producers Ronald D. Moore and David Eick and stars Mary McDonnell and Edward James Olmos as well as four U.N. officials, was organized by the U.N. as part of a new effort to link the organization’s concerns to the creative community. It was held in the Economic and Social Council Chamber, an imposing room full of rows of delegate seating facing a dais on one end of the room. In the audience were fans of the show, network executives, members of the media and more than 100 high school students, who were there representing Think Quest NYC, an educational outreach project.

The audience members sat in the seats reserved for diplomats and delegates, but instead of nameplates listing the names of real countries, signs in front of each seat said “Caprica,” “Gemenon,” “Picon” and the names of the other nine colonies seen on the Sci Fi show. The overall effect made you feel as though you’d stepped onto one of the show’s sets; perhaps “Battlestar’s” president Laura Roslin (McDonnell) was about to pacify the restive Quorum of the Twelve Colonies.

But this wasn’t a set. And despite the fact that “Battlestar Galactica” is set in a fictional universe, the United Nations representatives on the panel praised the show for its depiction of the ways in which war, torture, deprivation and terrorism affect real people.

http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/.a/6a00d834518cc969e201116900e8da970c-200wi

Robert Orr, an anti-terrorism expert and the U.N.’s Assistant Secretary-General for Policy Planning, pointed out that a few months ago, in that very room, victims of terrorism attacks told their harrowing tales to an array of diplomats. Their stories had an effect: Orr talked about seeing those officials “throw out their talking points” and began to take seriously the idea of linking basic human rights to their nations’ anti-terrorism efforts.

Orr spoke after the audience was shown a “Battlestar” clip in which military leader Saul Tigh (Michael Hogan) defended the use of suicide bombers against the Cylons. In that episode – not for the first time -- the show put viewers in an uncomfortable position. The grizzled Tigh is one of the show’s best-loved characters, yet here he was advocating terrorist tactics and telling the president he didn’t have time for her “pieties.”

“We don’t like to confront these tough issues in our world. But they are oh so real,” Orr said. “If a show like ‘Battlestar Galactica’ can get us think about it and can get us talking about it… It isn’t easy. I’ve heard these words from people. But they weren’t actors.”

Craig Mokhiber, deputy director of the New York office of the U.N.’s High Commissioner for Human Rights, talked about how the show, via the human-Cylon struggle for dominance, examined “this idea of the Other – defining human beings as being the Other so that we can dehumanize them and ultimately destroy them.”

“We are all entitled to a social and international order in which all of the rights and freedoms of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights can be fully realized, regardless of race, sex, language or religion,” Mokhiber. Linking the quest for basic human rights to the “Battlestar” characters’ search for Earth, he said, “I would suggest that this is the mythical Earth for which we are all searching.”

Soon after that statement, Olmos’ gravelly voice rumbled across the hall.

“You should have never invited me here,” he chuckled. While praising Mokhiber’s efforts, he objected to the use of the word “race as a cultural determinant.”

“We’ve made the word race a way of expressing culture,” Olmos said. “There’s only one race, and that’s what the show brought out – that is the human race. Period.”

http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/.a/6a00d834518cc969e201116900eb10970c-200wi

After expanding his point on how the construct of race had been used to justify oppression, he repeated loudly, “There is but one race! So say we all!” There was vociferous applause and chants of the “Battlestar” catchphrase reverberated through the august chamber.

One of the high school students in the audience asked if she should be worried about the fact that almost most adults these days, especially young people, are “addicted” to technology. As viewers saw over the course of four seasons of “Battlestar,” letting technology get out of hand can potentially lead to, well, attempted genocide, among other unpleasant things.

Moore responded that for older people, the idea of true artificial intelligence was “science fiction,” whereas young people will deal with those kinds of developments as reality. The ethical dilemmas that come with creating life, even artificial life, will “rush up on us before” we’re ready to confront them, Moore said.

Goldberg had a few choice words for the over-reliance on gadgets. “Put the thing down once in a while,” she remarked dryly.

Later, McDonnell responded eloquently to a question about the imperatives of the military versus the rule of democracy and Roslin’s role in executing the fleet’s enemies. For a woman who had been perceived, early on, as a tentative former schoolteacher, President Roslin didn’t blink when it came to tossing a fractious Cylon into space. In fact, in time fans started to call her character “Madam Airlock.”

“She can talk about how she was haunted by the airlock,” Eick said. “But she’s also the one who made it a verb.”

“The series is winding down this week,” Goldberg said near the end of the session. “What do you want people to take away from it?”

Olmos said he hoped that, on their deathbeds, those who had spent many hours of their lives watching every episode of the show would not feel that time had been wasted. And he gave an eloquent speech about how, at every stage, the scripts that the writers came up with had been elevated not just by the cast and crew and the post-production staff, but by the bloggers and the fans who obsessively analyzed every aspect of the show.

“They took it to a level that was immensely further than we had ever intended,” he said. “We had to give up our ownership and …allow them to give us” their feedback, and in his view, the show was better for it.

McDonnell said she hoped that people had absorbed the show’s themes of “patience” and “forgiveness” as the means to “break the cycle of violence.”

Moore’s first response was to say that he hoped that people were entertained. And indeed, the show would never have been a success had it not told these challenging stories of morality and ethics through the prism of compelling characters and emotionally nuanced relationships (not to mention some pretty cool space battles).

“He creates from a place that doesn’t seem to be conscious of what people need. He has an instinct for it. It’s in his subconscious,” McDonnell said of Moore at a post-panel cocktail reception at the U.N. “But because he isn’t trying to teach anyone anything, he incorporates the human experience, which includes a great deal of humor and a great deal of complexity.”

“We challenged the audience in a lot of ways,” Moore noted at the close of the panel. “We pushed a lot of tough ideas on the audience, we made them look at a lot of ugly things over the course of these four [seasons]. We made them question their heroes, we had them rooting for villains. We had them trying to grapple with really complex moral and ethical dilemmas in the guise of a weekly television series about killer robots in outer space.”

“I guess if you watched this series and you decided to think about some of the issues that ‘Battlestar Galactica’ talked about, if what you end up believing at the end is the exact same thing you thought in the beginning -- at least you thought about it,” he concluded.

For more on “Battlestar Galactica,” including a post-finale interview with Moore, come back to this site early Saturday, after the series finale airs.

http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/03/battlestar-galactica-united-nations-olmos-moore.html#more

Whoopi Goldberg??? What the???

All of the other ST TNG actors/actresses they could have chosen...

I never liked the New Caprica story arc. Outside of the Stabuck-Leoben plot, it didn't advance the story much. Also, the story is too tangential. Had they committed to it longer, maybe. Personally, I would have preferred they pursue it as a side story set on old Caprica, not dissimilar to the way they revisited Caprica in the first two seasons.

Well we did get Cavil's creepy sexcapades with Ellen. Still kind of grossed out by the father/daughter thing. Are we letting go of how and where were the extra Ellen bods into which she would resurrect? It also struck me how similar the apartment Leoben kept Kara on New Caprica resembled the one she and Zak entertained Lee in that flashback last week. Was that the same apt. she and Helo were in way back when? Her painting was near the front door this time and I thought it was downstairs when she was there with Helo. Perhaps it is just continuity issues or she had lots of paintings.

I think the ending is going to be a bit more enlightning than one in which everyone dies. That is too easy.

I never liked the New Caprica story arc. Outside of the Stabuck-Leoben plot, it didn't advance the story much. Also, the story is too tangential. Had they committed to it longer, maybe. Personally, I would have preferred they pursue it as a side story set on old Caprica, not dissimilar to the way they revisited Caprica in the first two seasons.



I respectfully disagree (although not about the length of the story arc - I would have loved for them to do a whole season on New Caprica).

Yes, Starbuck/Leoben were important. But New Caprica was the turning point for some of the cylons against Cavil. Some of the Cylons (6, 8, especially) had this grand notion that they could live in peace with the humans. Cavil could only enslave the humans. This difference leads directly to the Cylon civil war.

But the more important aspects, to me, were the explorations of what is ok in times of war? Is terrorism, which Tigh pushed, a justifiable means to an end? Other questions dealt with what to do with collaborators. And especially, with Baltar, a puppet government - to what degree should the puppet leader be punished for being forced to do things against his wishes. These are deep questions explored by the series.

To me, this is what the seres has always been about - and these questions are asked (and not necessarily answered) during the journey. Yes, there is an end game, and while I hope that the end is satisfying, the journey has been tremendous.

The ship of lights would explain Starbucks return in a new ship.

I know Ron Moore said that the ship of lights wouldn't be in the series, but would you expect him to say that it did given that it would eliminate a lot of the mystery surrounding Starbuck not to mention that it could explain alot.

The ship of lights would explain Starbucks return in a new ship.

I know Ron Moore said that the ship of lights wouldn't be in the series, but would you expect him to say that it did given that it would eliminate a lot of the mystery surrounding Starbuck not to mention that it could explain alot.

WTFrak is The ship of lights?

I think if there's one thing we can all agree on, it's that this series has been fantastic storytelling. TV just don't get no better than this, frankly. But the bellyachin' has been a little much. This show has developed its characters and maintained their core personalities and motivations even while showing necessary growth better than any show I can remember. If you want to see the opposite, try 'Heroes' where the cast changes motivations and entire personalities from week to week.

The thing to remember is this is basically one man's vision, augmented by some amazingly creative people. They got to tell the story they wanted to tell, and end it on their terms. I have no doubt that had the ratings been 5-7 million/week, like 'Closer' for example, we would have had a richer, more vibrant show with a lot more vfx and more of the space battles that some tune in for (and little else, apparently). But they always had to work with what they had, and it was amazing what they were able to do considering the constraints of being a little seen (even if much praised) cablenet show.

So the ending is coming up, and guess what? It won't satisfy everybody. I have no doubt that no matter what happens, we'll be subjected to several posters whining about how awful it was and how it just didn't measure up to.... well, they don't quite know but they do know it should have been better, dadgumit! And that's the thing. This is one guy's vision, not yours. I'm perfectly happy to let him tell the story he wants to tell and I'm quite sure I'm going to frakkin' love it no matter how or even if all the major plotlines are resolved to my high-fallutin' satisfaction. I'm just grateful we got something this good to enjoy and talk about these last 6 years. Judging by the anemic ratings, and the comments from some here who just never got what the show was really about, it's more than we deserved.

I just realized after reading this that this is my last visit to this thread. It has served it purpose. Comments such as "why did I have to watch Lee chase a pigeon" or "they owe us a big action ending" prove to me how many people have a hard time appreciating what is the end of the one the best TV shows ever. Even if the ending leaves me thinking, "WTF" I doubt my overall level of enjoyment of what I have watched will change.

Thanks to everyone for their insights it has added to my enjoyment of BSG greatly.

WTFrak is The ship of lights?

It's like: The Ship Of Fools.....only brighter.

ETA: or like: Ship Of State

Cylon, O ship....frak. Nevermind.

I just realized after reading this that this is my last visit to this thread. It has served it purpose. Comments such as "why did I have to watch Lee chase a pigeon" or "they owe us a big action ending" prove to me how many people have a hard time appreciating what is the end of the one the best TV shows ever. Even if the ending leaves me thinking, "WTF" I doubt my overall level of enjoyment of what I have watched will change.

Thanks to everyone for their insights it has added to my enjoyment of BSG greatly.

cgh3rd, other than the fact that I think some people just like to grouse, or vent their frustrations -- compounded with the fact that in our current world and economy a lot of us have a great deal of anger about a great many things which we simply can't take it out on -- I think some of us are simply at the point of "nitpicking" the show in its final season as we find little things here and there that seem or feel like a waste of time.

I really do understand this (although, like GrouchoDude, I vehemently disagree with it)... Much of these apparently new, and some seemingly random or "incoherent" character-driven scenes and episodes, may appear, "in a vaccuum" to have literally no meaning. But even if most or none of the viewers "get" the meaning, we can be assured that every single second of final aired video HAS a meaning to the writers, directors and producers or it wouldn't be there... The fact that many -- or possibly NONE of us gets it -- may be beside the point. Perhaps after the series finale RDM will explain some of these things and a huge "light bulb" will go off in many of our heads.

Being a writer, myself (although almost all of my writing is NON-fiction), I also understand the writing PROCESS a lot better than perhaps many of the viewers. Sometimes when I go to write something, I know exactly what I'm going to begin saying, and just about every part of it all the way through to the end; Other times I have only a "vague idea," but the SUBCONSCIOUS MIND usually has the whole picture all along, and so it's really there -- although sometimes in those cases there are various versions there -- and it's up to the FINAL creative process to determine which of those endings gets chosen, just as when we're taking Robert Frost's famous walk through the woods, we come to forks in the path and have to choose which fork to take.

The "creative process" is something most people who "don't have it" or have never experienced it simply have a difficult time understanding. I've been in the middle of writing a long article sometimes, where I had a pretty good idea how I wanted to start it, and sort of a vague idea of where it was going, but not really any clear idea, at all, of how it was going to actually wrap up -- how I was going to tie all the loose pieces together... Sometimes I'd just have to take a break and go do something completely unrelated, and then suddenly I'd just have a EUREKA moment and everything would fall into place, because, as I said, it's generally ALL THERE in the subconscious from the beginning... Now when you're in something like BSG, where you're dealing with not just ONE creative mind, but a half dozen, do the math on multiplying the process not just by that number, but by the factors of the different possibilites of each of those person's mind's times each of those numbers and the possibilities become literally mind-boggling. So it's sometimes a wonder that it all comes together in the end at all... Only this well through the solid leadership of ONE, visionary, creative leader, in this case, like RDM.

This explains why they didn't know they were going to do some of the things they did -- or, for instance, WHO the Final Five were going to be -- but it all worked out as well as it did. They deserve major Kudos for all of that.
Jeff

It's like: The Ship Of Fools.....only brighter.

ETA: or like: Ship Of State

Cylon, O ship....frak. Nevermind.

Go listen to some old Styx songs and maybe you'll figue it out for ALL of us! :p

WTFrak is The ship of lights?


In the 70s series, starbuck and apollo was scooped up by the ship of lights which contained higher level humanoids. In the process, their vipers were renewed and it seems that their uniforms changed colors for what that's worth.

I would argue that the ship of light is probably much older than the final 5 and are the ones that rebirth starbuck. They had still have the original resurection technology that their great grand children seem to have misplaced.

Even if this isn't how everything ties together, its still a good ending.

FYI:
the last show is 9:00pm et - 11:11pm et.

its ok in the directv program guide.

I like the less traveled.

It's made all the difference!

Yeah, that COULD come into play -- or something like that (the Ship of Light, that is).

Yaknow, some folks on here seem to hold anything other than what they consider "pure science fiction" in great disdain -- anything they see as "supernatural" or "fantasy" they think has no place on the Sci-Fi channel and don't want to watch or discuss.

I, on the other hand, like anything that is entertaining and challenges my imagination. I would ALSO propose the following thought... The major difference between what some of us perceive as "science fiction" and "supernatural" may have more to do with our own abilities to stretch our minds and imagination than the possibilites of science, itself. I'm of the opinion that essentially everything may be "natural." The "supernatural" may be simply things that are beyond nature we may understand or have everyday experience with and/or control over, if this is true...

If we look back several hundred years, what was "supernatural" in the 17th century, was science fiction in the 19th century and science fact in the 20th century. Current science is very close to developing "cloaking technology," something depicted as "science fiction" on shows like "Stargate" and "Star Trek," or as "supernatural" in movies like the "Harry Potter" series. To assume that our very limited understanding of the universe, physics, chemistry and biology determines what is "natural" and not, and what is "science" and not is mighty arrogant in my opinion.
Jeff

Whoopi Goldberg??? What the???

All of the other ST TNG actors/actresses they could have chosen...Whoopi actually has some moderator-like experience as one of the hosts of The View.

She's, also, one of the few actors who isn't afraid of politically damaging situations.

I'm sure her TNG buddies aren't as brave.

Yaknow, some folks on here seem to hold anything other than what they consider "pure science fiction" in great disdain -- anything they see as "supernatural" or "fantasy" they think has no place on the Sci-Fi channel and don't want to watch or discuss.There is a fiction genre know as "Science Fantasy" and perhaps the Sci Fi Channel should change its name to the Science Fiction and Fantasy channel (or SyFyFan :rolleyes:) to shut the fanboys up.

I think that BSG dances on the raw edge of fantasy in any case. It's difficult to believe that a machine could be created that's enough like a human being to be able to successfully cross-breed with one of us, yet machine enough to interface with a computer by shoving a data cable into its arm. One of Authur C. Clarke's Three Laws (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke's_three_laws) is, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Yeah, Whoopi has a lot of detractors already, people who don't like her for her various political views and lack of fear (or taste) in expressing them publicly... But she just doesn't seem to care, because Whoopi has always been very much "her own person," something I think even her detractors have to respect.

Love her or hate her, it's pretty hard to ignore her!
Jeff

She has an echo in the Nexus, for criminy sake!

She has an echo in the Nexus, for criminy sake!

but whats with that hat.

I'm thinking Whoopi is a quest star on the last two hours of BSG and that her hat contains all of the BSG universe. Ten-Forward, on the Enterprise, is the "Ship of Lite" (Miller Lite, Bud Lite,...etc).

I ain't gonna try to explain the "black hole" reference, though.

Now THAT'S an ending.

The ship of lights was in the old series. I haven't watched the DVDs in a while, but the ship of lights were like these higher functioning humans. They brought Apollo back to life after he had been killed by Count Iblis. It turned their uniforms white etc.

but whats with that hat.

Ummmm, I'll hazard a guess... she uses it to hide candy, sex toys -- and the Travelocity Roaming Gnome, with whom she has a "special relationship" as a "traveling partner" in the Nexus. :p

I watched all of ST:TNG and never understood (or cared about) the deal with Guinan, and so always thought the scenes at the bar were thrown in for women.
But she did a great job in the Time's Arrow eps with 'Mark Twain'.

I watched all of ST:TNG and never understood (or cared about) the deal with Guinan, and so always thought the scenes at the bar were thrown in for women.
But she did a great job in the Time's Arrow eps with 'Mark Twain'.

Yeah, and ole Samuel Langhorn has always been one of my heroes... if they were going to have a time-travel mini-series sort of thing with Guinan hobnobbing with people from Earth's past of that time, they couldn't have done much better than to have her hangin' out with the aged version of Mark Twain -- and they portrayed him just as I had him imagined.

Yaknow he was born with Haley's Comet and always said he expected to die with it, which he roughly did... For someone who was just a writer, I think of him as nonetheless something of a Renaissance Man.
Jeff

I had to go to Wiki to find out what all that was about with those episodes of Guinan. It still doesn't answer it....no matter what that other hotdog claimed was exposed during those two episodes. They never covered it that I could see.

ETA: That kind of "plot hole" would have everyone ripping TNG a "new one".

I had to go to Wiki to find out what all that was about with those episodes of Guinan. It still doesn't answer it....no matter what that other hotdog claimed was exposed during those two episodes. They never covered it that I could see.

Actually, SkyLite, the Nexus wasn't covered until the first TNG movie -- the one that had both Kirk AND Picard in it -- and the only one that also included Guinan (at least I THINK it was the first TNG movie -- I don't keep track of numbers very well, lol, but I'm pretty sure it had to be the first, because that had to be how they got audiences used to "Star Trek" movies having the TNG cast in them, instead of the original cast).

In that movie, both Kirk and Guinan -- and a lot of other people -- had been caught up in the Nexus, which is this sort of wave-like pink ribbon that moves endlessly through space on a certain path or orbit... It somehow captures your "essence," and once you're inside it, it's pure euphoria because you essentially live forever in whatever is your perfect dream life -- completely unaware that you're not actually IN that environment... Looked truly LOVELY -- like HEAVEN, or something -- like something nobody would want to ever leave...

Of course, in the movie, Kirk is in there, and Picard needs his help to stop a madman who plans to use the Nexus to create a huge interstellar disaster, but that's certainly easier said than done. I won't say any more for anyone who hasn't seen the movie. I found it pretty entertaining.

And that's probably as MUCH off-topic as we need to go on this tangent.
Jeff

Oh, Jeff...Jeff,

Put the keyboard down and back away.

Go back and read. We know you can write. :D

I've got a TV and watched the episodes and the movies. Why are you giving me a synopsis of those things of which we are not discussing?

ETA: Neato! I like pink ribbons.

Current science is very close to developing "cloaking technology," something depicted as "science fiction" on shows like "Stargate" and "Star Trek," or as "supernatural" in movies like the "Harry Potter" series.

One of the things that has long fascinated me about retro-futures (there's a great website on the subject, by the way) is how many times they got the timing all wrong.

According to Star Trek, we're supposed to achieve faster-than-light travel sooner than we can fix Captain Pike and Mr. LaForge.

Talk about a swing and a miss!! Both Pike and LaForge would be far better off in our present than Star Trek's future. Trek -- both ToS and TNG -- was downright awful in its predictions on medical technology.

Look at Arthur C. Clarke (since someone mentioned him), who like many writers of his generation saw the Cold War as an unending struggle, while also positing that we'd be sending manned missions to Jupiter by now. Whoopsies! He got that about as wrong as you possibly can.

And look at BSG. I'm still perplexed as to how a society that can build Cylons couldn't manage to give Gaeta a decent frakkin leg! Then again, they tolerate a doctor smoking in the ER, so it's very possible that it's all Cottle's fault.

In that regard, I give George Lucas credit. The opening words of Star Wars lay down the rules: this has nothing to do with you.

This show has had a very far reaching impact. I've been a faithful viewer since the beginning, and because of the use of "Frak" in the show, I started using it myself and completely replaced the 'other' F word in my vocabulary, which has pleased my wife tremendously.

But, even more than that, my brother, who has never seen a single episode of the show (and probably hasn't ever heard of it) even uses "FraK" now all the time. Transference! I never really noticed it til last week we were playing some hoops, and he fell over and let out a loud "FRAK!"... I stood there stunned. Thank you BSG.

One of the things that has long fascinated me about retro-futures (there's a great website on the subject, by the way) is how many times they got the timing all wrong.

According to Star Trek, we're supposed to achieve faster-than-light travel sooner than we can fix Captain Pike and Mr. LaForge.

Talk about a swing and a miss!! Both Pike and LaForge would be far better off in our present than Star Trek's future. Trek -- both ToS and TNG -- was downright awful in its predictions on medical technology.

Look at Arthur C. Clarke (since someone mentioned him), who like many writers of his generation saw the Cold War as an unending struggle, while also positing that we'd be sending manned missions to Jupiter by now. Whoopsies! He got that about as wrong as you possibly can.

And look at BSG. I'm still perplexed as to how a society that can build Cylons couldn't manage to give Gaeta a decent frakkin leg! Then again, they tolerate a doctor smoking in the ER, so it's very possible that it's all Cottle's fault.

In that regard, I give George Lucas credit. The opening words of Star Wars lay down the rules: this has nothing to do with you.

You really NAILED that one, KittyCat! I don't remember the exact line, but there was one time on TOS where Dr. McCoy was talking about how they could fly all over the galaxy and dissassemble and reassemble people from one place to another, but they still "couldn't cure the modern cold." Well, from the latest news reports I've seen on research on the Rhinoviruses that cause the common cold, there may be a vaccine to totally ELIMINATE the common cold within the next 10 years, or less!

Once they identified the Human Genome, and then started taking things further from there, the possibilites became virtually endless -- yet the new technology that's involved with "cloaking" will also make micro-imaging literally thousands -- if not millions of times more efficient (current electron microscopes work only by coating items with metal and effectively "photographing" their shadows, which means NOTHING living can be observed... the new technology would not require anything like that and could record down possibly to the atomic level completely clear images).

Again, that's one of the things that makes PsiPhi interesting (forevermore, in honor of my sarcastic friend, SkyLite, it shall be PsiPhi -- perhaps WE can start a trend!) -- the fact that the "future" it predicts is SO UNpredictable, and why when you make a movie like "Terminator" in 1984, and set the date that SkyNet takes over the world, setting it in the far-off time of 1997 can be quite a mistake, as well, as well as predicting everyone will be using flying cars by 2010, for instance... And in 1965, nobody had any idea computers would be as advanced today as they are -- for that matter, not in 1987, either... When Capt. Picard once asked Mr. Data what was the capacity of their computer, I think he said something in the neighborhood of 4 Teraflops, or something like that (please don't hold me to that). We can get DESKTOPS with such capacities today, lol, albeit very HIGH-END desktops... but we all know in just a few short years, the way things are progressing, those will likely be PDAs, lol.

Science marches forward, never in the ways we might predict it will, but it does march forward... the amazing new technologies and discoveries that come about through it -- some even terrifying in their implications -- are much of what keep me going, and pretty much all of what keeps PsiPhi going.
Jeff

When Capt. Picard once asked Mr. Data what was the capacity of their computer, I think he said something in the neighborhood of 4 Teraflops, or something like that (please don't hold me to that). We can get DESKTOPS with such capacities today, lol, albeit very HIGH-END desktops... but we all know in just a few short years, the way things are progressing, those will likely be PDAs, lol.

In fairness, Data was assembled with parts from Ebay, Fry's and NewEgg.

TNG might have been the all-time worst predictor of the future among SciFi shows. There's probably an episode where Picard is told that soon a full 5% of cancers will be treatable.

So who thinks we will see something on the order of "supernatural" in the series finale of BSG -- perhaps "Lords of Kobol" and/or a "Ship of Light" (I've actually seen almost NONE of the original series -- at the time I was mostly working second shift, and what little I DID see looked so campy and poorly done that I didn't go out of my way to watch more... think I caught part of one episode on the PsiPhi channel about 5:30 a.m. one day a few years back, lol... they were on Earth, and riding horses -- don't remember if they were painted "day-glo" colors, or not, lol).

As for "supernatural," just what is that, anyway? Where does our definition of PsiPhi end and our description of "supernatural" begin? As I said above, that line DOES seem to shift. On the "Stargate" franchises, the beings known as "the Ancients," who turned out to simply be an earlier evolution of Humans, evolved to a point they were able to "transcend" their human bodies completelyand evolve into a form of being that is pure energy and completely undetectable to anyone in this universe, because they essentially spend their time in "another plane of existence."

Now the last thing I want to do is get into a discussion of religion here -- and I know to most folks that looks like some sort of religious thing -- but seriously, if everything is, essentially "physics," who's to say that's not possible from a purely scientific point of view?

I don't recall which famous scientist was quoted as saying this. I believe it was Einstein -- but the quote went something like, "I think that when science finally reaches the peak of the mountain we may find religion has been there all along."

That's certainly NOT to say that everyone should just start praying and abandon science. What it is saying is that what some people see as spiritual matters may also have scientific explanations, and they may all be part of the same thing, and even if they do, just because everything may eventually be explainable by science won't necessarily negate or lessen the existence or importance of an ultimate being and/or universal intelligence, etc. I just strongly suspect that at some point, if we don't all kill ourselves in the process, we truly WILL find that "all roads lead to Rome," so to speak.
Jeff

Much of these apparently new, and some seemingly random or "incoherent" character-driven scenes and episodes, may appear, "in a vaccuum" to have literally no meaning. But even if most or none of the viewers "get" the meaning, we can be assured that every single second of final aired video HAS a meaning to the writers, directors and producers or it wouldn't be there... The fact that many -- or possibly NONE of us gets it -- may be beside the point. Perhaps after the series finale RDM will explain some of these things and a huge "light bulb" will go off in many of our heads.

Being a writer, myself (although almost all of my writing is NON-fiction), I also understand the writing PROCESS a lot better than perhaps many of the viewers.

Thanks for these golden nuggets of humor. I just showed this to my wife, who is a television writer/producer, and she had some good laughs reading it. Especially the part where you claim that every second of final aired video has meaning to the writers.

Thanks for these golden nuggets of humor. I just showed this to my wife, who is a television writer/producer, and she had some good laughs reading it. Especially the part where you claim that every second of final aired video has meaning to the writers.

One of the big mistakes people make is assuming that similar skill sets in different mediums translate easily.

For example, I have a friend who is a graphic designer who was excellent in print, but who fell apart in the transition to internet because he could never adjust to the modularity the medium requires. He wanted everything done as a big single piece.

From what I've seen of it, TV writing is the strangest thing on earth. To start with, you cannot anticipate what the other people involved are going to do with your work. You have to rewrite often for the oddest reasons (most often budget or to accommodate a cast member's life).

It's a lot more impressionistic (that's the best word I've got; I'll take better if someone has one) than other formats.

The consequence on a show like BSG is that the end of Season 4 is probably radically different than the writers anticipated when they were writing the beginning of Season 1.

So who thinks we will see something on the order of "supernatural" in the series finale of BSG -- perhaps "Lords of Kobol" and/or a "Ship of Light"

Don't think it's gonna happen. Would be viewed as a deus ex machina. I think RDM is more interested in showing what amounts to universal religious behavior among sentient beings (humans/cylons) and the dynamic it creates rather than explaining the theology.
The finale will center on Kara Thrace. Who/how she came back and her purpose as harbinger of doom. I think she's either cylon resurrected or clone. But who did it? I was guessing Daniel/father but...RDM seems to have shot that down (or could he be playing us?) I don't think it was Cavil, the final five or the Colonials. What about...the Guardians? The sentient machine-like Cylons...could THE plan we've heard about for 4 seasons be their plan to usurp the skinjobs/humans with Kara their tool? I have a little nagging thought that somehow the cylon virus is gonna come back. Maybe resurrected Kara the carrier? Anyway Galactica swoops in on a one way mission (no coincidence the Final Five are onboard they are all toast)...Kara is triggered (sleeper?) Cavil/colony vs Adama (Galactica/basestar) with everyone being blown away by the best special effects this side of the movie screen...Galactica falls into the black hole (our beloved crew dies...but we'll always wonder if maybe they survive the spacetime trip...) Whats left? Our ragtag fleet of humans...maybe decimated again by a final attack...led now by...Baltar who stayed behind. His arc comes full circle. In search of the new Kobol...to begin the cycle again. Anyway my $.02.

The entire "Battlestar Galactica" panel at the United Nations (124 min.) can be watched online: http://webcast.un.org/ramgen/ondemand/specialevents/2009/se090317pm.rm .

<snip>

From what I've seen of it, TV writing is the strangest thing on earth. To start with, you cannot anticipate what the other people involved are going to do with your work. You have to rewrite often for the oddest reasons (most often budget or to accommodate a cast member's life).

It's a lot more impressionistic (that's the best word I've got; I'll take better if someone has one) than other formats.

The consequence on a show like BSG is that the end of Season 4 is probably radically different than the writers anticipated when they were writing the beginning of Season 1.


Improvisational?

The Star Trek movie with the Guinan character was Star Trek:Generations, and yes it was the first movie for the ST:TNG cast (as a crossover with ST:TOS). I do remember that Whoopi had issues with the movie and insisted that her screen credit be removed (which it was).

Don't think it's gonna happen. Would be viewed as a deus ex machina. I think RDM is more interested in showing what amounts to universal religious behavior among sentient beings (humans/cylons) and the dynamic it creates rather than explaining the theology.
The finale will center on Kara Thrace. Who/how she came back and her purpose as harbinger of doom.

While I have my doubts about it now, so close to the end, I've said from the beginning that the Ships of Light/Lords of Kobol might make an appearance. Far from being a deus ex machina, the writers have set this up from season one.

What is Head Six? There is no chip in Baltar's head, so the answer is not technological. Head Six told Baltar explicitly that she was an Angel of God. So the groundwork has long been laid for a "god"/Ship of Light/Lord of Kobol to appear.

Kara is not a Cylon -- they didn't make or clone her. She is also not human. The Colonials also certainly did not make the reborn Kara Thrace. So who returned her to the fleet with knowledge of Earth? How did she learn the Final Five activation music? Why did she draw the Eye of Jupiter as a little girl? There is no race in the show, Cylon or Human, that can explain this. By process of elimination, it has to be some other power.

I'm going to bet there's something in the cloud around the singularity besides the Cylon Colony.

Even if you want to posit that everyone falls into the singularity and goes back in time and Kara retains some of her knowledge of the music and the Eye of Jupiter, that does not and can not explain how she was reborn with a brand spanking new Viper.

It's all happened before.....

I know.

The music of John Williams awakens people to go to the Devil's Tower and a big honking spaceship appears from behind the tower and flips over and a long legged Centurion takes Richard Dreyfuss up and he becomes Daniel.

eh? eh?

While I have my doubts about it now, so close to the end, I've said from the beginning that the Ships of Light/Lords of Kobol might make an appearance. Far from being a deus ex machina, the writers have set this up from season one.

I can't believe RDM would introduce a supernatural element right at the end. There's been a lot of talk about religion, sure, but only in the context of its apparent necessity to sentient life. I think that's the philosophical area that RDM wanted to explore.

What is Head Six? There is no chip in Baltar's head, so the answer is not technological. Head Six told Baltar explicitly that she was an Angel of God. So the groundwork has long been laid for a "god"/Ship of Light/Lord of Kobol to appear.

The explanation I prefer is one proposed by a member earlier in this thread. When Six was killed by the blast, she was holding/shielding Baltar. She resurrected through him in some fashion, leaving some of her consciousness behind in his. A little of his got mixed with hers as well.

Kara is not a Cylon -- they didn't make or clone her. She is also not human. The Colonials also certainly did not make the reborn Kara Thrace. So who returned her to the fleet with knowledge of Earth? How did she learn the Final Five activation music? Why did she draw the Eye of Jupiter as a little girl? There is no race in the show, Cylon or Human, that can explain this. By process of elimination, it has to be some other power.

Or, she could be Daniel's daughter, who managed to resurrect her after her Viper explodes (but as to the new Viper, I still got nuthin'). I have a hunch we'll be hearing a lot about Daniel tomorrow night. Cavel thought he exterminated all trace of the #7 model; I think he's in for a rude awakening.

...snip....

I have a hunch we'll be hearing a lot about Daniel tomorrow night. Cavel thought he exterminated all trace of the #7 model; I think he's in for a rude awakening.


I bet you're right. Daniel and the other final 5 are flying around in the ship of lights. They only sent copies of themselves to help out the Cylons. Cavel will be surprised. I bet they'll say this whole thing was a big experiment about good and evil. :)

I just reread my post. As flip as it sounds, it too would be a good ending.

I can't believe RDM would introduce a supernatural element right at the end. There's been a lot of talk about religion, sure, but only in the context of its apparent necessity to sentient life. I think that's the philosophical area that RDM wanted to explore.



The explanation I prefer is one proposed by a member earlier in this thread. When Six was killed by the blast, she was holding/shielding Baltar. She resurrected through him in some fashion, leaving some of her consciousness behind in his. A little of his got mixed with hers as well.



Or, she could be Daniel's daughter, who managed to resurrect her after her Viper explodes (but as to the new Viper, I still got nuthin'). I have a hunch we'll be hearing a lot about Daniel tomorrow night. Cavel thought he exterminated all trace of the #7 model; I think he's in for a rude awakening.

I'm sure I'm probably missing something but, again: Who are the Lords Of Kobol if not supernatural/higher evolved beings? The entire story line has centered around this from day one.

The Lords Of Kobol don't have to be "supernatural", necessarily. Nor do the Ships Of Light have to be "gods" (if they come into play).

Not to be a spoiler, but the question regarding head six and Daniel were answered on The last Frakkin special.

Not to be a spoiler, but the question regarding head six and Daniel were answered on The last Frakkin special.

In that case, what was the answer to Head Six?

I'm really pissed that they use the special to reveal information like this. I was only planning on watching the show itself. It was also annoying when they kept referring to something Gaeta did during the occupation, but only provided info on it during the webisodes.

In that case, what was the answer to Head Six?

I'm really pissed that they use the special to reveal information like this. I was only planning on watching the show itself. It was also annoying when they kept referring to something Gaeta did during the occupation, but only provided info on it during the webisodes.I'm sure that they reveal that information in the finale as well. I assume that they just gave spoilers in the special.

In that case, what was the answer to Head Six?

I'm really pissed that they use the special to reveal information like this. I was only planning on watching the show itself. It was also annoying when they kept referring to something Gaeta did during the occupation, but only provided info on it during the webisodes.

I saw the special, and they didn't really answer, in my opinion. They eliminated a particular possibility (that Head Six is a chip in Baltar's head), but I didn't think they made any kind of conclusive explanation.

Improvisational?

Sure, I'll buy that. Especially in the cases where episodes require rewrites on a short turnaround.

While I have my doubts about it now, so close to the end, I've said from the beginning that the Ships of Light/Lords of Kobol might make an appearance. Far from being a deus ex machina, the writers have set this up from season one.

From what I've read, they struggled to retire Head Six and completely failed to incorporate the Cylon God. They apparently wanted to introduce CyGod during S1, but just never could quite find a way to make it fit. They also apparently were supposed to retire Head Six sometime during seasons 3 or 4, but they went all "I wish I could quit you".

They eliminated a particular possibility (that Head Six is a chip in Baltar's head), but I didn't think they made any kind of conclusive explanation.

I had no impulse to watch the special until I saw some of these comments. Then I read your comment, shrugged, and said, "Geez, Cottle eliminated that possibility in season 2."

I don't know that Head Six requires an extant explanation. Unless we are to imply that Head Six is the Cylon God or a manifestation / agent of CyGod, I don't see that explaining her materially changes the story in any beneficial way.

I think it's going to be easier to reconcile the Head characters with this theory:

Baltar and Caprica Six represent a dualism. Both facilitated horrible things. Both experienced similar problems, including the Head characters. But, each responded differently. Caprica Six learned. Baltar didn't.

I think whatever was left to hash out on that matter comes down to what side of Adama's suicide mission line Baltar lands on. She's made her choices, and she's content.

Considering how pathological Baltar is, I don't think the writers will waste the first minute of the finale with him suddenly discovering self-sacrifice.

I haven't watched ANY of the specials this week! I'm waiting until after the finale... I had originally planned to watch the first one Monday, then forgot until late Monday, and they were already into late-night re-runs... THEN I started reading about all kinds of potential spoilers and whatnot in the specials and just decided to wait. I'm hoping and assuming PsiPhi will re-run them all after the series finale is finished.

I think it was me who suggested "Head Six" was created when she and her consciousness essentially "vaporized through" Baltar, Groucho, although I may not have been the only one... At any rate, it's at least one reasonable explanation, in my opinion.

As for whether or not the finished product that airs represents exactly what the writers, producers and director (I forgot to include editor(s) wanted... Well, budget restrictions aside, it sort of HAS to, doesn't it? I mean, aside from the fact that you may be limited by what you can get out of your cast and crew and sometimes certain actors just might not be up to certain scenes -- or they may just not play out "on film" like they were envisioned on the page and in the minds of the writers and other creative directors.

I'm happy I could give you and your wife a hearty laugh, Ed, but if, perhaps, I missed hitting the exact semantics of what I was trying to say, it was only because I left out a point or two (perhaps trying not to be so "anal," to keep SkyLite happy -- See, SkyLite, I TOLD YA it never pays for me to not hit every single point! :p ) I think you knew what I meant. No, I don't work in film or TV and NO, I never have, so I'm sure your wife is much more the expert... Nonetheless, you have to know that RDM and a variety of other people view every single second of "final cut" film/video probably at least twice prior to it running on TV, and we all know they have likely 5 - 10 times that much "raw footage" available in extra takes and outtakes (and other scenes or versions of scenes they chose not to go with) which they could substitute if they so chose... So if you want to argue with Ron Moore, please feel free to go argue with Ron Moore. I see no reason why you should be poking fun at me for simply stating a highly likely fact. I know it's not a DEFINITE fact because on many shows, even the executive producer doesn't get the final say on what the final screen content is... sponsors and network executives do. But I think at this point, with this network, RDM quite likely is.
Jeff

Reminder: tonight's series finale of "BSG" runs from 9 to 11:11PM ET/PT (adjust your DVR's)

TV Notes
'Battlestar Galactica' finale is satisfying -- so say we all
After five seasons, all is revealed, and it turns out to be worth the trip
By Mary McNamara, Los Angeles Times - March 20, 2009

From "MASH" to "St. Elsewhere" to "The Sopranos" to "Seinfeld," all long-running television shows become myths at some point or another, reflecting, within the confines of their own universes, the disparate nature of human experience.

Yes, they're entertaining, but to keep an audience committed year after year, a show must offer enlightenment, even if it's just the recognition that the corruptible nature of power extends to the Soup Nazi.

“Battlestar Galactica,” which comes to an end tonight after five seasons, was always upfront about its relationship to myth -- it's science fiction, for one thing, which of all the narrative genres is the most unapologetic about its use of symbolism and archetype, journey and transcendence.

In science fiction, anything is possible, which is in itself a metaphor for the human spirit. So it was natural, when watching the trials and triumphs of this scrappy band of humans attempting to survive in a world overtaken by their technology, to wonder if the residents of the Galactica were our past or our future.

Tonight, praise the gods, we have our answer. All this has happened before, and it will happen again, but it's hard to imagine a more visually and thematically satisfying finale.

Creators and executive producers Ronald D. Moore and David Eick have always taken the nature of the show seriously, which is why all those "praise the gods," "frakkings," "so say we alls" and look-alike Cylons (the evil twin trope taken to the nth degree) played as legitimate extensions of an alternate universe rather than camp. (Although where, on this stripped-down survivors' vessel, all that booze came from, not to mention Laura Roslin's very stylish wig, we must agree to simply overlook.)

The writers' dedication never falters, and "Battlestar Galactica's" finale is everything a fan, of the show and of television, could hope for. It's difficult to write about without giving anything away, so suffice it to say that tissues (or shots) would not be inappropriate accouterment.

[CLICK LINK BELOW TO READ REST OF REVIEW BUT BEWARE; MAJOR HINTS AND A COUPLE OF SPOILERS INCLUDED. DO NOT READ FURTHER IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS IN TONIGHT'S SERIES FINALE]

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-et-battlestar20-2009mar20,0,4379589.story

The L.A. Times has a review of the "Battlestar Galactica" finale that drops MAJOR HINTS and a couple of spoilers of who/what will happen in less than 21 hours: http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-et-battlestar20-2009mar20,0,4379589.story. Read at your own risk! :)

I didn't read it, but I'm somewhat surprised they'd run the review tomorrow. Who's going to read it? Would fans read it knowing it could be spoiled? And would non-fans care?

They took flak from local readers when they ran a story/interview with Kate Vernon the day after the episode aired where she was revealed as the final cylon. I didn't care because I had watched the episode, but for all the folks who recorded it (it is on a Friday night after all), let's just say it was a surprise when they saw her picture and a headline revealing the secret on the front page of the Calendar section.

They're not major spoilers (they fall under 'minor spoiler' category) but Mary McNamara drops a couple of hints of who/what stands out that have made this diehard "BSG" viewer start counting the minutes between now and the finale.

That's enough to make me stay away. :p

Hopefully I remember this post when I wake up tomorrow and open the paper. lol

You really NAILED that one, KittyCat! I don't remember the exact line, but there was one time on TOS where Dr. McCoy was talking about how they could fly all over the galaxy and dissassemble and reassemble people from one place to another, but they still "couldn't cure the modern cold." Well, from the latest news reports I've seen on research on the Rhinoviruses that cause the common cold, there may be a vaccine to totally ELIMINATE the common cold within the next 10 years, or less!

Once they identified the Human Genome, and then started taking things further from there, the possibilites became virtually endless -- yet the new technology that's involved with "cloaking" will also make micro-imaging literally thousands -- if not millions of times more efficient (current electron microscopes work only by coating items with metal and effectively "photographing" their shadows, which means NOTHING living can be observed... the new technology would not require anything like that and could record down possibly to the atomic level completely clear images).

Again, that's one of the things that makes PsiPhi interesting (forevermore, in honor of my sarcastic friend, SkyLite, it shall be PsiPhi -- perhaps WE can start a trend!) -- the fact that the "future" it predicts is SO UNpredictable, and why when you make a movie like "Terminator" in 1984, and set the date that SkyNet takes over the world, setting it in the far-off time of 1997 can be quite a mistake, as well, as well as predicting everyone will be using flying cars by 2010, for instance... And in 1965, nobody had any idea computers would be as advanced today as they are -- for that matter, not in 1987, either... When Capt. Picard once asked Mr. Data what was the capacity of their computer, I think he said something in the neighborhood of 4 Teraflops, or something like that (please don't hold me to that). We can get DESKTOPS with such capacities today, lol, albeit very HIGH-END desktops... but we all know in just a few short years, the way things are progressing, those will likely be PDAs, lol.

Science marches forward, never in the ways we might predict it will, but it does march forward... the amazing new technologies and discoveries that come about through it -- some even terrifying in their implications -- are much of what keep me going, and pretty much all of what keeps PsiPhi going.
Jeff

Not to mention that none of these shows predicted Sham-Wow!

Heads up to folks who haven't bought the DVDs yet. Amazon has seasons 1, 2.0, 2.5 and 3 on sale for <$24.

Considering season 1 usually retails for around $45, that's a great deal.

And since they said that the new movie may not be released until the fall, I'm wondering how much stock there is in the report that we'd see a complete series release in July. Can't really be "complete" without that movie. O_o

I didn't think that the LA Times article contained any real spoilers at all.

Not to mention that none of these shows predicted Sham-Wow!

Yaknow, I might agree to buy a frackin' lifetime supply of Sham-Wow if the manufacturer could only make a promise that this hugely annoying dude, "Vince," with the spike hairdo and the ear-mike -- and the overwhelming sense of urgency that you just "have to call in the next 20 minutes, because we can't make this offer all day!" (even though the commercial has run like 500 times, so it's been "the next 20 minutes" 500 different times, now, lol)... If they'll just promise that someone will ENSURE that this guy NEVER goes on TV, or radio, or ANY broadcast media, ever again (by ensure, I mean they either pay him off and make him sign an iron-clad contract that will have him put in prison or something if he violates, or have his vocal chords removed!) :p

Yeah, I'll buy a lifetime supply of Sham-Wow and tell everyone I know to do the same in that event, lol!

Otherwise, I'll NEVER buy that product, or anything sold by that Mays character who yells at everyone, either! :rolleyes:
Jeff

I'm sure I'm probably missing something but, again: Who are the Lords Of Kobol if not supernatural/higher evolved beings? The entire story line has centered around this from day one.

The Lords Of Kobol don't have to be "supernatural", necessarily. Nor do the Ships Of Light have to be "gods" (if they come into play).

Exactly.

RDM has said explicitly in a recent podcast that Daniel and Kara have no link whatsoever, and was rather apologetic to fans for implying a relationship, since none was intended.

30 mins. till the finale marathon begins.

So Say We All! :)

I didn't think that the LA Times article contained any real spoilers at all.

Just playing it safe. Don't want to be accused later to have spoiled even a minute of tonight's epic. I agree they're not spoilers as much as sign posts of what/who stands out, which has only made me want to watch the finale more than ever. :)

Heads up to folks who haven't bought the DVDs yet. Amazon has seasons 1, 2.0, 2.5 and 3 on sale for <$24.

Considering season 1 usually retails for around $45, that's a great deal.

And since they said that the new movie may not be released until the fall, I'm wondering how much stock there is in the report that we'd see a complete series release in July. Can't really be "complete" without that movie. O_o

S2.0 + S2.5 = $48 for the complete Season 2. Where's the bargain? :confused:

I hate that they split the seasons with separate DVD sets, but some frakkin' bean counter at NBCU evidently figured that's how they could maximize revenue. Me, I'm waiting on the inevitable all-inclusive blu-ray set which would have to include, as you mention, 'The Plan'.

12 Hours to go!

I'm watching it live...

I'm watching it live...

Ugh. Same here, however. 1,157.5 commercials and all. This despite 2 DVRs. Maybe I can wait until 9:30 to start watching......must....be....strong. :D

As for whether or not the finished product that airs represents exactly what the writers, producers and director (I forgot to include editor(s) wanted... Well, budget restrictions aside, it sort of HAS to, doesn't it?

Short answer: No.


I see no reason why you should be poking fun at me for simply stating a highly likely fact. I know it's not a DEFINITE fact because on many shows, even the executive producer doesn't get the final say on what the final screen content is... sponsors and network executives do. But I think at this point, with this network, RDM quite likely is.
Jeff
Its only a highly likely fact in your mind, not in reality. I'm sorry if your feelings are hurt, but you pretty much were asking for it when you said ...

Being a writer, myself (although almost all of my writing is NON-fiction), I also understand the writing PROCESS a lot better than perhaps many of the viewers.

As Meow Meow already mentioned, writing for television is a completely different animal. They are writing as part of a team and actually have very little control over what happens to the their script. Maureen Ryan's interviews on the Chicago Tribune website gives viewers a small glimpse of that unique PROCESS, although obviously the writers don't want to burn any bridges with current or future producers, so they leave nothing but 'team-player' comments. This is obviously getting off-topic, so this is the last time I'll bring it up. I have no doubt that you'll want(NEED) to get the last word, but please just try to keep your rebuttal to 18,000 words or less.

Maybe I can wait until 9:30 to start watching......must....be....strong. :D

That's my plan too. Me & Mrs. Groucho will have a bottle of fine scotch alongside in honor of RDM (but no cigs; sorry Ron), along with a BIG box of tissues. From everything I've read, it's going to take a stronger man than me to avoid getting a little misty-eyed at the finale. Heck, just knowing it's done for good will probably reduce me to a blubbering mess, let alone the storyline wrap-up. :p

But at least we'll have 'The Plan' at some point down the line for one more belated fix. And, to paraphrase Bogey, we'll always have 'Caprica'.

I already have my box of tissues beside my recliner, Groucho! :) I'm going watch Daybreak 1 before the finale, so I can watch the entire three hour episode as it was meant to be seen.

I've got to say, as excited as I am to see the show, I'm pretty bummed today. I will miss it an awful lot.

I've got to say, as excited as I am to see the show, I'm pretty bummed today. I will miss it an awful lot.

Considering the obvious difficulties of maintaining a large audience with a heavily serialized storyline, and one that's sci-fi to boot, not to mention the reluctance of the networks to summon the courage to embrace clear political and religious allegory, we may never see its like again. 'Caprica' will try and I'm sure it will be very good, but it won't be the same. :(

Although I go out of my way to avoid posting anything that even the most sensitive spoilerphobic could call a spoiler, some of the comments here complaining that the Last Frakin' Special had spoilers in it left me shaking my head. Those folks need to get lives. What the hell, though, maybe I need to get a life, too. :)

FYI, my cable provider, TWC San Diego, correctly has the final episode running from 6:00 PM to 8:11 PM (Pacific Time). I'm still padding it at the end by an additional 5 minutes (total run time 2 hours, 16 minutes), just in case.

You may want to check the program guide on your local system just to be sure it has the overage (11 minutes) as well.

Critic's Notes
Frakkin' brilliant!
By Diane Werts, TVworthwatching.com

I'm glad Battlestar Galactica ends this Friday night -- only because I can now start watching it over again from the beginning, on DVD, in uninterrupted marathon sessions. That's the ideal way to absorb this landmark series' escalating stakes and ever-keener insights.

Not to mention the elation of immersing yourself in a smart story that knows precisely what it wants to accomplish, then does it in such thrilling fashion.

The final two hours (Friday 9-11:11 p.m. ET, Sci Fi) turn out to be a superb summation of four seasons of wide-ranging ambitions, though I have to admit it'll be incomphensible to those new to the story's intricacies. It's not like there's a quick series summary to be had:

A very recognizable civilization is nuked to within an inch of its life, sending survivors fleeing through space in search of a new home, all the while dueling the very humanlike robots they'd created and who attacked them, each side seeing the other as a cancer that must be destroyed for life to flourish.

That's maybe 10 percent of the tale. Maybe not even. The humans fight amongst themselves. The human-like Cylons do, too. They're both struggling to forge some "better" new society. And the definition of that ideal is forever in flux.

Let us count the ways this astounding saga has been endlessly stimulating.

Spiritual explorations.
Political machinations.
Religions in pitched battle.
War waged by and against the rules.
Class conflict.
Dwindling resources.

Fathers and sons and mothers and children.
Families fractured.
Lovers at loggerheads.
Alliances, betrayals, mutinies, murders.
Sex, drinking and rock 'n' roll.

Philosophical debates delivered through rip-roaring action.
Women characters on the same kick-ass footing as men.
Humor in the face of heartbreak.

People losing their moral compass. And finding it.
Good vs. evil.
And wondering which side is which.
Or if there even is a side.
And what the hell: What IS The Meaning of Life, anyway?

All here. All dynamically delved into and delivered upon in this three-hour finale.

(Last week's first hour repeats Friday at 8 p.m. ET on Sci Fi before this Friday's 9-11:11 p.m. end of the end. All three hours encore Friday night 11 p.m.-2 a.m. ET.)

Watching the series' culminating episodes over the past month, I've scribbled down dozens of "important lines" of dialogue I might want to reference. They all feel crucial.

"Sometimes lost is where you need to be. Just because you don't know your direction doesn't mean you don't have one." "A new life requires a new way of thinking." "Our brains have always outraced our hearts. Our souls lag behind."

Profound in context, they sound syrupy outside it. There is just so much context in this intense tale. That's always made it hard to jump onto the Galactica train as it hurtled down its track. You had to know where it had been to understand where it was going.

Bingo. Everything about Galactica -- including that last sentence -- references something else, perhaps in earlier episodes, or in today's real-life society, or in human yearnings over thousands of years. For an action-packed show with so much firepower and frakking -- a show that raised its own profane euphemisms to a fine art -- there was even more introspection inspired in both characters and viewers. Even when neither knew it was happening.

Now finally, all the pieces of the puzzle fall together, onscreen and inside our heads. See, it even dovetails with what can be seen and what cannot. Battlestar Galactica has always been a religious experience in more ways than one. That's made ultimately clear here, even as the action is paying off the character drama in a dozen different directions.

It's a visceral experience. And a profound one. Thanks go not just to series auteur Ronald D. Moore but to his entire crew for plunging us deep inside a world that sometimes seems more palpable than our own. I can't remember ever feeling so spellbound by a show, so emotionally shattered, so exhilarated, so satisfied. Or so awed, by both the ambition and the execution. Who knew that the last tube of toothpaste in the universe could be so meaningful? That the strains of All Along the Watchtower could become such a rallying cry? ("There must be some kind of way out of here/Said the joker to the thief/There's too much confusion/I can't get no relief.") Who suspected that death and renewal and the full-circle of the universe could be made so plainly transcendent -- in a wham-bam TV show!

This is what sci-fi can do. Not just spaceships and aliens and technobabble, only the first of which is even remotely in residence here. Battlestar Galactica is this genre -- heck, art -- at its finest, showing us something profound about ourselves by telling us a magnificent story about something else, or at least what we perceive to be that. Sci-fi sneaks around and mows us down with its insight when it is this smartly imagined and electrifyingly told.

Why a channel just concluding such a masterpiece would choose this moment to announce it's changing its name -- as if to downplay the just-proven potency of its focus -- is beyond me. (And to the belittling SyFy? Are they kidding?)

Lest we forget, the oft-touted "greatest story ever told" is essentially one that is factually undemonstrable. You have to let your mind go with the flow, and take it on faith. It's sci fi, too, people. Could be. Might have been. Wish it was. Maybe it really was/is. Wow.

It's dreamers and cynics as one -- as Galactica explores in this finale -- and believing in something greater than yourself, whatever it might be. It's living stronger in hope than in fear.

Thanks, Battlestar Galactica. For reminding us.

http://www.tvworthwatching.com/werts/2009/03/battlestar-galactica-finale-re.shtml

Reminder: tonight's series finale of "BSG" runs from 9 to 11:11PM ET/PT (adjust your DVR's)

Critic's Notes
'Battlestar' journey coming to a close
By Joanna Weiss, Boston Globe - March 20, 2009

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Original_Photo/2009/03/19/battlestar__1237488899_7038.jpg

It's almost a shame that a show like "Battlestar Galactica" appears on a channel called SciFi - or "SyFy," the new identity that the network will take on this summer. Yes, the cable network deserves serious credit for producing this dark, imaginative, gorgeously cinematic version of the 1970s series. But the mere idea of science fiction probably turned off a good chunk of potential viewers, not to mention Emmy voters. So one of the best TV shows of the decade - which ends its run with a two-hour episode tonight at 9 - has never gotten quite the attention it deserved.

That's particularly true given the times; the best science fiction functions as allegory, and "Battlestar" was built for a post- 9/11 world. (This week, producers and actors even spoke at the United Nations about the ways the show reflects a range of current issues, from terrorism to torture.) To the original premise - a band of humans in space, chased by a race of rebellious machines called Cylons - producers added a layer of religious discord. The humans pray to Greek gods, while the Cylons are monotheistic. Their worldviews have been difficult to reconcile.

As the series went on, the emphasis changed. An arc about occupation and rebellion played off the situation in Iraq. And while the series wrapped before last fall's election, the current story line about a potential Cylon-human alliance feels like an Obama-era meditation on racial harmony. If the show ends on some overarching message, it might be that survival, in an unforgiving universe, demands cooperation. In the hands of the "Battlestar" writers, that's not nearly as maudlin as it sounds.

In part, that's because the series has been relentlessly dark, depicting what life might truly be like for 35,000 people crowded into ramshackle hunks of metal, wandering homeless through space with only algae to eat. In part, it's because of the show's layered characters and impressively raw performances. It's hard to find a stronger group of women on TV, from Katee Sackhoff's swashbuckling Starbuck to Mary McDonnell's Laura Roslin, humanity's dying president, who has convincingly shifted from democrat to autocrat to theocrat, and plays illness and disappointment with astonishing grace.

Edward James Olmos may have a few more crying fits than necessary - every few episodes, it seems, he trashes his admiral's quarters like a rock star on a drunken binge - but he embodies Admiral Adama as a gruff, respected leader who allows himself to be governed by emotion. James Callis, as the self-serving scientist Gaius Baltar, adds pitch-perfect comic relief. And most revelatory has been Michael Hogan as Adama's right-hand man, the volatile Colonel Saul Tigh, who repeatedly chooses loyalty over identity. More and more over the seasons, the show has seemed to be his, and there's little doubt that he'll play a crucial role in tonight's finale.

The end of a great series is always bittersweet, and heavy with expectations. Tonight, viewers will want closure on a list of lingering issues, from the mystery of Starbuck's rise from the dead to the fate of a half-human, half-Cylon child named Hera, who may or may not represent the future of humankind. It will be little surprise if a few characters die - a whole corps of them has just embarked on what they believe to be a suicide mission - and it might be nice to know if the last remaining humans in the universe find a new planet to call home, or simply wander around forever.

If we don't get every answer, though, we shouldn't be surprised. Throughout the series, "Battlestar" writers have always found ways to confound expectations. At the end of the second season, they shifted the ground rules with a one-year fast-forward. In last June's midseason finale, they took what might have been a natural series endpoint - the long-awaited discovery of Earth - and used it instead as a launching-off point. The planet, our planet, turned out to be uninhabitable, ravaged by nuclear war.

And so our dwindling band of humans was back where it started, lost in space, searching for a home. With one chocked-with-exposition exception, this winter's episodes have been less about a final destination and more about the psychological effects of a group of people fixed on a single hope, only to have it dashed. There was a shocking suicide, an attempted mutiny, a realigning of politics. Last Friday's penultimate episode dwelt largely on events before the series even began, in a series of flashbacks that saw several characters managing crises of an entirely human sort.

Given the weight of the series' mythology - describing the intricacies of human-Cylon relations can take a good half-hour, and I know because I've tried - it was bold of the writers to spend so many of their final hours on character studies. Some science-fiction junkies may have wound up disappointed, but for a show that transcends its genre, the choice was fitting. This show is about the journey, all the way to the bitter end.

http://www.boston.com/ae/tv/articles/2009/03/20/battlestar_journey_coming_to_a_close/

Here's an article on "The Science of BSG" discussing the show's science advisor...

http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/03/20/1844663.aspx

Wouldn't you know it?

Cablevision in NJ has no sound on their HD Sci-Fi channel in my area.

Gods. I hope they fix it.

Eeeeeek!

ETA: Looks like they might have fixed it.

And most revelatory has been Michael Hogan as Adama's right-hand man, the volatile Colonel Saul Tigh, who repeatedly chooses loyalty over identity. More and more over the seasons, the show has seemed to be his...Now there's an interesting point of view--I strongly disagree with it, but it's interesting :).

6Hrs. 14 min. till Final Episode airtime!

Originally Posted by dad1153
And most revelatory has been Michael Hogan as Adama's right-hand man, the volatile Colonel Saul Tigh, who repeatedly chooses loyalty over identity. More and more over the seasons, the show has seemed to be his...
Now there's an interesting point of view--I strongly disagree with it, but it's interesting :).
I agree with dad here. It seems to me that both Tigh, the character, and Michael Hogan who plays him have shown remarkable growth over BSG's run. Hogan was always an accomplished actor, of course, but as Colonel Tigh has become more and more complex, he has grown from nothing much more than a loyal drunk to a to an effective leader who has dealt with and overcome more adversity since the Cylons attacked Caprica than most men will face in a lifetime. Much of my regard for the character is owed to Hogan's wonderful performances. Tigh has been a metaphor for the horrors that all of the post-apocalypse survivors have faced and -- so far -- not allowed to defeat them.

I agree with dad here. It seems to me that both Tigh, the character, and Michael Hogan who plays him have shown remarkable growth over BSG's run. Hogan was always an accomplished actor, of course, but as Colonel Tigh has become more and more complex, he has grown from nothing much more than a loyal drunk to a to an effective leader who has dealt with and overcome more adversity since the Cylons attacked Caprica than most men will face in a lifetime. Much of my regard for the character is owed to Hogan's wonderful performances. Tigh has been a metaphor for the horrors that all of the post-apocalypse survivors have faced and -- so far -- not allowed to defeat them.First off, dad1153 didn't say that--his post was quoting a newspaper article, so it's Boston Globe writer Joanna Weiss whom you're agreeing with.

I suppose that Michael Hogan's done an okay job with Tigh (although he's always seemed more of a caracature than a character--someone's one-note concept of a salty old military commander--but that might just be the way he's written more than anything else). But I certainly don't see where the show has become in any sense "his". In my mind, he's one of the least interesting aspects of the story, and I wouldn't number his among the 20 best performances over the course of the show. Just about every line he delivers grinds on my nerves.

Let's just agree to disagree.

Colonel Tigh has become more and more complex, he has grown from nothing much more than a loyal drunk to a to an effective leader who has dealt with and overcome more adversity since the Cylons attacked Caprica than most men will face in a lifetime. Much of my regard for the character is owed to Hogan's wonderful performances. Tigh has been a metaphor for the horrors that all of the post-apocalypse survivors have faced and -- so far -- not allowed to defeat them.

I've been critical of some of the 'out of the blue' character 'developments' in this show, but I agree very much with your post and much to my surprise I currently regard Tigh as my favorite BSG character.

Maybe THAT's why I have the hots for Ellen.

I don't have the hots for Ellen (in the least) - however I surely like "Cylon" Ellen much more than her previous character. In fact, I think the reason I started liking Tigh more is because he finally dispatched that PITA.

I had zero sympathy for her before she died - even her getting Caviled repeatedly.

How does it end????

Adama and the Battlestar crew head off for the final battle with Cavil and his troops....they engage in a shattering battle best battle sceneof the series) in which all parties eventually get sucked into the black hole....

Fade back to the remaining colony ships......

which under Baltar's command have found "Eden"... uh I mean "Earth"....but it turns out that the grass on the planet emits an acid that burns their feet and the fruit on the planet is poisonous.....

Having used the last of the ships fuel and jump capabilities...Baltar (with a tear in his eye) and the other survivors look upward and in the far off distance they see a faint blue marble looking planet......

fade to credits......

Frakking siffee... I'm re-recording 417 Someone to Watch Over Me because my old copy was bad. It's not bad enough they have that "Sci Fi Channel" bug in the lower righthand corner of the screen as usual. No, they made it BIGGER for today, adding "Battlestar Galactica Finale Tonight at 9!" on top of it. Mother frakkers. Just for that, when I process the video for DVD I'm going to remove their logo completely. Usually I live with it, no biggie. That'll teach 'em.

Seriously, how many people watching the re-runs today are going to be hooked into watching the finale tonight that don't know about it yet? 20? I can't wait to start not watching SiFfee again.

How does it end????

<snip>
Fade back to the remaining colony ships......

which under Baltar's command have found "Eden"... uh I mean "Earth"....but it turns out that the grass on the planet emits an acid that burns their feet and the fruit on the planet is poisonous.....
<snip>



Ahhhh,

We have a Treker among us. :)

I don't have the hots for Ellen (in the least) - however I surely like "Cylon" Ellen much more than her previous character. In fact, I think the reason I started liking Tigh more is because he finally dispatched that PITA.

I had zero sympathy for her before she died - even her getting Caviled repeatedly.

Which goes to show what a great job Kate Vernon did with the part. I especially loved how even after being resurrected and remembering that she was the "Mother of Cylon Nation" with the responsibility of saving her entire race, she was still the same ol' Ellen underneath the surface, carrying all of her old insecurities and vanities like a millennial-old millstone. How very..... human she always seemed.

Although I go out of my way to avoid posting anything that even the most sensitive spoilerphobic could call a spoiler, some of the comments here complaining that the Last Frakin' Special had spoilers in it left me shaking my head. Those folks need to get lives. What the hell, though, maybe I need to get a life, too. :)

I recorded it and won't watch it until after the finale. After tonight, it's history. SciFfee has a solitary BSG episode next weekend (the finale I think) and that's it. No more Last Frakkin' Special broadcasts after the 7 PM EDT one this evening. Off into the wilderness we go.

I'm passing on Craprica until the reviews are in and the DVDs are out. Having watched S1 through S3 of BSG via the DVD route and really regretting not waiting to do the same for S4 and S4.5, there's no way I'm watching a weekly deal. It always makes me feel like I'm wasting my time instead of getting involved in a good show. One bummer weekly episode is all it takes to completely throw off any sense of rythm or continuity, as we've seen the last few months.

Hamburger,

It's the journey.....not the destination. :D

'Battlestar' journey coming to a close
By Joanna Weiss, Boston Globe - March 20, 2009

...it was bold of the writers to spend so many of their final hours on character studies. Some science-fiction junkies may have wound up disappointed, but for a show that transcends its genre, the choice was fitting. This show is about the journey, all the way to the bitter end.


Amen.

NPR's, All Things Considered, aired today it's own take on the BSG UN summit and series finale:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=102116629

I am re-watching the Last Frakkin Special. Am I the only one that didn't realize that Kendra Shaw (Stephanie Jacobsen) from Razor plays Jesse on the Sarah Connor Chronicles?

I am re-watching the Last Frakkin Special. Am I the only one that didn't realize that Kendra Shaw (Stephanie Jacobsen) from Razor plays Jesse on the Sarah Connor Chronicles?

Yep. ;)

Hey, thanks for that frakkin' link, man. I usually listen to ATC every day, it's always on in the background, but I got immersed in work. I feel bad about it. But in about an hour I'm going to feel soooo good. :p

i just read on a website what the ending is:

galactica & the cylons...............




just kidding :D

i just read on a website what the ending is:

galactica & the cylons...............




just kidding :D

Dude, you just about caused a heart attack. :p

I just discovered an amazing scientific fact: the closer we get to the airing of the series finale of BSG, the more time slows down.

I just discovered an amazing scientific fact: the closer we get to the airing of the series finale of BSG, the more time slows down.

Very prescient observation there, young man. Especially so, because I think "time" and its malleability is going to be a big part of the picture that's about to unfold. Let's see, about 40 minutes to go now....

<-- Watching AND recording Parts 1-3 of tonight's finale in HD, as I FINALLY got DISH HD with DUODVRs on both HD sets installed about 1:30 p.m. today! :);):cool: (doin' the happy dance -- just imagine a much bigger, fatter, human version of Snoopy!) :eek::p:D

I also took both my HD boxes and remotes to Charter this afternoon after my mom got finished with her doctor's appointment and gave them every SINGLE "piece of my mind" I felt capable of sharing (i.e., ALL the sh*tty ones!) I told the lady at the desk, as she was doing the return paperwork about just about everything nasty Charter has done in the past couple of years, then as I was leaving let her know it was nothing personal intended at HER, that I know she just works there, and I hope he has a great day, lol.
Jeff

anyone notice the PQ and bitrate are higher then normal.

Good luck everybody.

Feel like I'm gearing up for the Nerd Super Bowl.

Good luck everybody.

Feel like I'm gearing up for the Nerd Super Bowl.

I prefer the euphemistic "geek" myself, but each to his own. ;) The psyche level is dangerously high in this house right now as Mrs. Groucho and I bounce off the walls waiting for our commercial buffer to accumulate....

that opening shot of the city was beautiful in HD

I just did a dbl take. cylon centurions on the Galactica!

I about threw up watching Adama hurling all over himself.

So far its awesome. The scene with the Six marching the centurions looked fantastic. Wa Who!

we got our answer about the other landing bay. Museum was still there. not anymore after the raptors blew that all away.

Well, I hope everyone who was "spoiling for a fight" is getting satieted now, lol.

Was it just me, by the way, or did that look an awful lot like DEE up there on that flight deck behind Anders just before they made their FTL jump -- just for a "fracktion" (sic) of a second.

Ooooh! BIG reveal! Both Baltar AND Caprica saw their "head opposites" together, at the same time, just after they kissed! Wooohoooo! Are THEY "Lords of Kobol?"

Well, I hope everyone who was "spoiling for a fight" is getting satieted now, lol.

Was it just me, by the way, or did that look an awful lot like DEE up there on that flight deck behind Anders just before they made their FTL jump -- just for a "fracktion" (sic) of a second.

Ooooh! BIG reveal! Both Baltar AND Caprica saw their "head opposites" together, at the same time, just after they kissed! Wooohoooo! Are THEY "Lords of Kobol?"

Not sure what your watching I dint get any of that? Maybe I'm mesmerized by the space battle. I was right about, RAMMING SPEED! This so good I must stop watching. Boomer did exactly whats been alluded to.

Freaking awesome!

Well, I hope everyone who was "spoiling for a fight" is getting satieted now, lol.

Was it just me, by the way, or did that look an awful lot like DEE up there on that flight deck behind Anders just before they made their FTL jump -- just for a "fracktion" (sic) of a second.

Ooooh! BIG reveal! Both Baltar AND Caprica saw their "head opposites" together, at the same time, just after they kissed! Wooohoooo! Are THEY "Lords of Kobol?"

Never mind I'm way behind on the viewing.

Callies Death has been avenged! Did Cavel stick a gun in his mouth?

WoW, not what I expected at all.

Callies Death has been avenged! Did Cavel stick a gun in his mouth?

Yep, looked like "the prophet" provided himself a little "self-ventilation" to me, rather than face what he might otherwise endure as the failed leader of his "flock."

The again, once again, Galen put his own emotions above the considerations of others -- exept this time it was above saving both all humanity and the entire Cylon race... Not that it's not easy to understand how he felt, but then Tory did also preface their "finger-dangling" by saying that things might come out about their pasts that some of the others didn't like. Dude coulda waited.

Of course, if he had, they wouldn't have found Earth, would they?
Jeff

ROFLMAO.....

Loved the ending!

Looks like Ron M. got into the last few scenes.

Absolute perfection! That's all I have to say!

Those two angels (and whatever Kara is/was)... I couldn't have asked for anything more! I think Kara was some kind of Angel, too, but she just didn't know it... And Hera ends up being our "Eve."

PERFECT!

I'm just STUNNED!

Angels? Really? Talk about Deus ex Machina.

So here's what I got out of the finale:
1) The rest of humanity dies off, leaving only Hera as "Mitochondrial Eve" and the new starting point of humanity.

2) Gaelin is the precursor to the entire Gaelic society.

3) And apparently...Jimi Hendrix is God.

Wow

First off, and this is least important but picture and effects quality was off the chart amazing for the final two hours. They really went ALL OUT on every scene and it was beautiful.

Second: awesome, just plain awesome. I can't process it right now...its just too much. I can see some people absolutely hating that ending...not I. It gave just the right amount of closure.

Loved the RDM cameo...loved it.

Absolute perfection! That's all I have to say!

Those two angels (and whatever Kara is/was)... I couldn't have asked for anything more! I think Kara was some kind of Angel, too, but she just didn't know it... And Hera ends up being our "Eve."

PERFECT!

I'm just STUNNED!

Kara was an angel. but like you said, she only figured it out at the last second.

Best ending to any show I have watched over 40+ years

Kudos to Ron M. and the rest of the staff and actors and actresses!

One of the best series finales I've ever seen!

I don't think the rest of them died off. Hera's were just the earliest remains they happened to find, all those eons later.

So when are the centurions coming back to get us all? :D

Loved the RDM cameo...loved it.

I missed it. When did it happen?

Great episode.....lots of action the first hour.Tied up things the second.:)

I missed it. When did it happen?

WHAT?!?! He was in front of Ghost-6 and Ghost-Baltar reading the magazine at the news stand in NYC

Very nicely done.

I was rooting for the machines, however, so boo. :p

WHAT?!?! He was in front of Ghost-6 and Ghost-Baltar reading the magazine at the news stand in NYC

No need to shout. :cool: I don't have what he looks like burned in my memory so a cameo wouldn't jump out at me.

WOW... and WOW. Will definitely watch it again at midnight. WOW. Only sorry they didn't play Hendrix over the end credits, too!

I missed it. When did it happen?

He was holding the magazine. Gaius and Six angels were reading the article about Eve over his shoulder.

BTW, where is this server that is on Central time? Or did it never get the patch to adjust to the daylight time calendar change.

Excellent show & what a neat ending. Hats off to Ron Moore & all the actors for a superb 4 yrs!! Until BSG, I had thought Babylon 5 was the "best", but over the past 4 yrs, BSG has proven to be right up there and surpassed it....

I really like the idea of cyclical events and where will technology lead us "this time"? The whole last episode blew me away.

Obviously they saved up all of their SFX budget for the finale....and it was worth it. For a cable network show..oh, heck, even for a motion picture....those shots were amazing.

Whoa, I swear the time just adjusted. Nevermind...

Also, BSG: The Plan! I guess we will get another mini-series in the fall! Can't fraking wait!

Also, Caprica looks much different than I was expecting

so who is the final cilon?

I'm very happy with the ending. My hat is off to everyone who insisted there was a "real Earth" out there somewhere. I thought you were all wrong. I would have bet money on it. Congratulations.

It was good enough that the leftover plot holes don't really matter too much. After a couple of days reflection I might have some nits to pick, but overall I thought it was excellent. We're all Cylons in the BSG universe I guess. That very last scene with RDM I could have done without, but whatever.

To Galactica! She was a fine ship. So say we all.

Sure, Asimo (http://world.honda.com/ASIMO/) looks cute now....but just wait a couple of years. I'm just sayin'

1. wussy way for cavil to go out.

2. it cant be our earth because someone there actually put the channel on msnbc on a tv. :D

Angels? Really? Talk about Deus ex Machina.

So here's what I got out of the finale:
1) The rest of humanity dies off, leaving only Hera as "Mitochondrial Eve" and the new starting point of humanity.

2) Gaelin is the precursor to the entire Gaelic society.

3) And apparently...Jimi Hendrix is God.

LMAO... Yup.

I don't see the rest of Humanity dying off. Hera was the savior of Humanity because she brought the humans and Cylons together in a rescue attempt, that facilitated the destruction of Cavil and his merry men. Even Tory killing Galen's wife was orchestrated by good, if not they would have given the resurrection tech to Cavil... It was all connected with a God theme... very well done.. Bravo.

The only seen that had me in tears is when Baltar said he knew farming, his poor dad and mine is all I could think of...

Props to Baltar and Helo for ending it with hot chicks..

Why does everything seem so obvious in retrospect? Converting the musical notes to numbers and those being the coordinates to Earth. Can't believe that wasn't anticipated.

Agree that some of the holes left do not detract from the story as a whole. Is The Plan a mini-series? I thought it was to be a movie.

To Galactica! She was a fine ship. So say we all.


So Say We All!

Sure, Asimo (http://world.honda.com/ASIMO/) looks cute now....but just wait a couple of years. I'm just sayin'

Never buy a robot, that says "By your Command" :p

Why does everything seem so obvious in retrospect? Converting the musical notes to numbers and those being the coordinates to Earth. Can't believe that wasn't anticipated.

Agree that some of the holes left do not detract from the story as a whole. Is The Plan a mini-series? I thought it was to be a movie.

yeah TV movie

I'm very happy with the ending. My hat is off to everyone who insisted there was a "real Earth" out there somewhere. I thought you were all wrong. I would have bet money on it. Congratulations.

How could you have believed the Earth with Africa, Australia, Asia. etc. did not exist in the show? They showed it in the episode when Kara comes back from the dead in the Viper. The final sequence of that episode was a camera pull out to show the entire galaxy then a quick zoom onto a planet that was clearly our Earth: the East Coast of North America was shown. The existence of the real life Earth has been confirmed for a while now. When they got to Cylon Earth, they were very careful not to show any geological features of the planet's surface, which was a clear tip-off that Cylon Earth was not our Earth. So it was just a matter of if they would find our Earth and if they did, when - present day, past or future - they would arrive.

If you think about it too much, the finale doesn't make too much sense. I think the writers could never untangle all the plot twists that they got themselves into. One simply has to go with it. But there is a certain poetic grace to the end, especially the sequence at the end of people walking single file into the land. It is an echo of the beginning of the show, when people were streaming single file out of the ruined cities of Caprica. A mirror image but this time, with hope and renewal. A nice touch.

OK, the rational side of me has to wonder about the rabbit out of the hat ending. And gods know I've been critical of the go for the dramatic effect style BSG ploting post season two, but ever since I decided to shut off the analytical portion of my brain that evolved say in the last 150,000 years, I have to say I thoroughly enjoyed the finale. Great music and scenery.

Sure folks would abandon technology and live short miserable lives working 12+ hour days of backbreaking labor trying to grow crops. But hey, it's drama.

Again I really loved it. Just trying not to do much thinking.

And I gots to admit, the space battles were fantastic. I never paid much attention to that aspect previously but a well done to the effects people and everyone for the finale.

What happened to the Loebens and the one remaining 3?

Great episode. Dish didn't even macroblock or pixelate with the flying flamingos. I thought for sure I was going to see a sea of pixelation and squigglies.

so who is the final cilon?

Thats hard to say? Its whoever the Lions ate last.

When Adama was sitting there looking at animals, I kept thinking to myself.
"A frakking Lion is going to eat them" I was holding out for that moment and it never came. :mad::rolleyes:

ok so what questions are still unanswered ?

I'll be the 1st to mention the "Original" 70's BSG instumental theme playing as the fleet headed into the sun ...

I guess I'll throw the gasoline into the amen corner. What a cop out. Brushing over a host of mysteries established with a great big "I guess the angels did it" is a little sad. At least we cleared up the mystery about whether Adama can hold his liquor.

I guess I'll throw the gasoline into the amen corner. What a cop out. Brushing over a host of mysteries established with a great big "I guess the angels did it" is a little sad. At least we cleared up the mystery about whether Adama can hold his liquor.

Like the Eagles in LOTR.

I guess I'll throw the gasoline into the amen corner. What a cop out. Brushing over a host of mysteries established with a great big "I guess the angels did it" is a little sad. At least we cleared up the mystery about whether Adama can hold his liquor.

Sorry, what mysteries? The only big mystery unrevealed and left up to the audience is what Kara was....I feel like mostly everything else was explained...

What did NY Baltar mean by "You know he doesn't like to be called by that name, ..... Oh silly me ..."

I still want to know, where are the Centurions that destroyed the Earth 2000 years ago.

That was kind of a big one, don't you think?

Why did she know the coordinates to "home"?

What is the nature of her father?

What question did Adama ask Anders?

Gorgeous and satisfying in every way.

fafner

Wow, wow, wow - unbelievable series finale.

Strangest thing watching it however. The first 30 minutes flew by in what seemed like 10 minutes - I thought, "Crap, they're just finished all stations checking in and they're heading out for the assault, and one-fourth of the show is over already."

Then once the attack happened, a commercial break finally came up and I paused it for a mini-intermission thinking the show was about half over. Only 7 additional minutes had passed. The pacing of the rest of the show seemed almost the same as that 7 minute period - and the show felt like a 4 or 5 hour mini-series.

How does something something so riveting and intense seem so long (gratifyingly long) when the opposite is normally true?

Ok.

I guess I have to go and look for god/gods somewhere else.

No Lords Of Kobol.

What did NY Baltar mean by "You know he doesn't like to be called by that name, ..... Oh silly me ..."

He would rather be called Jehovah. :)

Dint someone suggest that Galactica was the opera house, this was way back.

ok so what questions are still unanswered ?

The biggest question is when the next smart show like this comes along, will there be an audience there to sustain it - or are we destined to continually head towards an "Idiocracy" society.

where is the basestar now ?

the adama burying laura in a rockpile on a mountain reminded me of picard burying kirk in st:generations.

What question did Adama ask Anders?

I assume it was if he knew the new location of the colony.

where is the basestar now ?

Centurians took it along with their freedom.

It's like Mom & Dad tossed them the keys - they'll spend the next millennium taking turns taking it for joyrides.

What happened to the Loebens and the one remaining 3?

Loeben is on Earth. After they arrived, Adama asked him if he had made a decision and Loeben says the Sixes, the Eights and the Twos have decided to stay to contribute to the world before they die. D'Anna, the last Three, was left on ruined Cylon Earth as she requested. Ron Moore confirmed that in his podcast of that episode.

We can only hope that some Brainiac will explain it all to us with a time-line.

I hate to say this but:

I'd love to have a comic book to explain it all.

It had better be thick, though!!

Fantastic!

No more words are necessary...even if I could figure out what to say.

How could you have believed the Earth with Africa, Australia, Asia. etc. did not exist in the show? They showed it in the episode when Kara comes back from the dead in the Viper. The final sequence of that episode was a camera pull out to show the entire galaxy then a quick zoom onto a planet that was clearly our Earth: the East Coast of North America was shown. The existence of the real life Earth has been confirmed for a while now. It was just a matter of if they would get there and if they did, when they would arrive.
The question was, when they were on Nuclear Cinder Earth, was that the planet we had seen with Florida from the episode you mentioned. I thought it was. The existence of "real life earth" had not been confirmed in any way, shape or form before Daybreak Part II. There were theories and suppositions, but no confirmation whatsoever until now.

Gaeta said the constellations matched when they jumped into orbit around Cinder Earth. Those are our constellations, after which the 12 Colonies were named and which they saw in the Tomb of Athena. There is not "in real life" another planet or star system around here where the exact same constellations appear in the night sky.

A plot hole I can live with happily ever after.

Brilliant Finale!
Excellent battle scenes, Eve and the modern day tie in to todays world.....
BSG rejuvinated my faith in network tv and I fondly recall rushing home from work on Fridays to watch the episodes back in Dec03/Jan05.
Cannot wait for Caprica & The Plan.

What was the point of Adamas puking in the alley?

where is the basestar now ?

the adama burying laura in a rockpile on a mountain reminded me of picard burying kirk in st:generations.

But without the "nookie".

I guess I'll throw the gasoline into the amen corner. What a cop out. Brushing over a host of mysteries established with a great big "I guess the angels did it" is a little sad. At least we cleared up the mystery about whether Adama can hold his liquor.

I have to tell you, I've been disappointed in this series for a while. So much potential wasted. The endless religious mysticism that went nowhere.

General Hospital except in a Battlestar. And about as lame.

That "everything's full circle" crap has been ran into the ground enough.

They save ALL the action for the last episode. You could have done the whole show in one season.

Sorry, I was really hoping for the best. But the middle season's were almost pointless.

Mostly I was impressed that they had the balls to see through the major themes of the show, especially with respect to the destinies of the various characters and God's plan. As much as was made up as the show went along, Moore had to know or have a pretty good idea at the beginning that they were following fate and all the talk of God's plan throughout the series was really true.

I'm sure some people will be pissed and view that as a cop out, that they didn't have any "better" explanation but to me it's a total fulfillment of the shows themes from the beginning and I found it immensely satisfying in just about every way. Part of the beauty is the simplicity. I can't think of any other way to explain it all that wouldn't have been horribly convoluted. And clearly the major theme of the show is that our destinies are written, but it our desire to know what our destinies are that brings them to fruition. The story was very much like that of Oedipus in that respect. It ties everything together and gives the story meaning in a way that some convoluted higher human or cylon power never could have.

Basically I think that Battlestar Galactica from beginning to end is one of the pinnacles of human artistic achievement. And I had the biggest grin on my face when 'Watchtower' came on, I've had that song in my head for at least two days.

Brilliant Finale!
Excellent battle scenes, Eve and the modern day tie in to todays world.....
BSG rejuvinated my faith in network tv and I fondly recall rushing home from work on Fridays to watch the episodes back in Dec03/Jan05.
Cannot wait for Caprica & The Plan.

What was the point of Adamas puking in the alley?
I cant believe you ask. Dint you know, every other episode he ends up drunk smashing sheet and grovelling on the floor. Why should this one be any different? The puke was new though.

Sorry, what mysteries? The only big mystery unrevealed and left up to the audience is what Kara was....I feel like mostly everything else was explained...


As I mentioned just above, why would the constellations on New Earth match the ones seen from Nuclear Cinder Earth? Can't happen.
What was the significance of the Opera House? The running around after the kid scene was re-enacted in the hallways of Galactica, but besides that, what about "The Opera House" angle?
Who or what were the Lords of Kobol?
Who built the Tomb of Athena on Kobol?
What's with the polytheistic religion vs. the one true god argument?
What is Caprica 6's real name?

There are plenty of others.

So we are all part Cylon since Hera was our progenitor!

fafner

As I mentioned just above, why would the constellations on New Earth match the ones seen from Nuclear Cinder Earth? Can't happen.
What was the significance of the Opera House? The running around after the kid scene was re-enacted in the hallways of Galactica, but besides that, what about "The Opera House" angle?
Who or what were the Lords of Kobol?
Who built the Tomb of Athena on Kobol?
What's with the polytheistic religion vs. the one true god argument?
What is Caprica 6's real name?

There are plenty of others.
I'll take stabs at these, although I don't consider any of them "major" plotholes as much as curiosities:

1. I assume they didn't match up.
2. It was just to serve as a vision that would guide them when needed.
3. Mythical religious figures? Previous archangel incarnations?
4. No idea there. God?
5. Just an added dimension to the show's religious element.
6. Sally?

6. What is Caprica 6's real name?


I vote for "Head Six", but only because "Doggie-Style Six" is inappropriate.

There's been some grousing about why people would give up technology. Really? After their technology led them to the brink of total annihilation? It was very believable for me.

The finale was the best I've ever seen. This show is the best I've ever seen. Years from now, I believe I'll look back fondly. And why is that possible? Because we had a "happy" ending. It was certainly bittersweet, but I can say that I never expected them to find a home. I fully expected everyone to die as some moral lesson to us all. But instead, many lived, as a moral lesson to us all. :) And how hard and almost useless would it have been to rewatch the show if the ending hadn't been hopeful? I guess I should've known!

Thank you RDM and everyone involved. I'll never forget this experience.

1. I assume they didn't match up.

They said the constellations did match up.

They also said this last "Earth" was a million light years away. Given we know that this last Earth is our Earth that causes two big problems:
1. There's no chance the constellations are close given that distance.
2. If you go that distance from Earth in any direction, you are in the middle of intergalactic space. Not much there.

This issue and the Starbuck questions (what happened to her and where did she and the Viper come from) are pretty big holes in my book. They rest was so good it's very annoying that they couldn't deal with these.

Before the final scene, had anyone speculated that BSG was set 150,000 years in the past instead of perhaps 150,000 years in the future? That was certainly extremely clever and came out of the blue to me.

fafner

They said the constellations did match up.

They also said this last "Earth" was a million light years away. Given we know that this last Earth is our Earth that causes two big problems:
1. There's no chance the constellations are close given that distance.
2. If you go that distance from Earth in any direction, you are in the middle of intergalactic space. Not much there.

This issue and the Starbuck questions (what happened to her and where did she and the Viper come from) are pretty big holes in my book. They rest was so good it's very annoying that they couldn't deal with these.

I don't remember any talk of constellations once they got to our planet. So maybe I'll catch it on rewatch. Kind of a silly plot hole I suppose but something I can get over.

As for Starbuck I thought it was clear that she was an angel much like Baltar/Six except that she wasn't aware of it.

Ok.

I guess I have to go and look for god/gods somewhere else.

No Lords Of Kobol.

Oh I think you found your "Lords of Kobol." They just happened to look exactly like Baltar (with sunglasses) and Caprica Six! ;)

I've waited quite a few posts to post again, to let this "settle a bit," lol. I'm halfway through my second viewing (if you count my THIRD viewing of Part 1), and my thoughts and opinions haven't changed one iota. I still think this was an absurdly creative perfection of an ending for a science fiction series of this nature... It left us with MUCH to think about, which is what all great science fiction should do, while at the same time, it left us with an overall feeling of completetion and satisfaction.

As for Kara, after a bit of further reflection I think she was "the dove," in Lee Adama's apartment, "the Angel of Deliverance," who was interpreted by machines as someone who will "lead them all to their deaths."

Oh, and on the topic of "angels," assuming "Head Six" and "Head Baltar" are angels, quite a bit of the things we see them -- in particular "Head Six" provoke Baltar to do during the series do not appear to be at all "angelic" in nature... During a good many scenes she appears to be provoking him to do a good many things that seem, sometimes, treasonous or close to it (and we all know the REAL Caprica Six has already provoked him to treason... There is this common theme that all "angels" appear with "tidings of goodwill and joy," but that's not always the popular view these days, also, in other movies and shows, such as "Supernatural," for instance, where "angels" have no free will and are allowed to feel nor express any emotions towards humans... So given that interpretation, these "head angels" could say or do pretty much anything to Baltar and Caprica Six in order to lead them to their final path.

Just some thoughts (hopefully in less than 18,000 words).
Jeff

Before the final scene, had anyone speculated that BSG was set 150,000 years in the past instead of perhaps 150,000 years in the future? That was certainly extremely clever and came out of the blue to me.

fafner

I had certainly considered it. What I love is that it explains why their culture, language, etc is so similar to ours. It IS ours. :p

You're getting there, Jeff!!

:D

I've got to watch it all again, before I bestow my wisdon on everyone.

So we are all part Cylon since Hera was our progenitor!
I want a sequel episode or movie that shows Lee in his advancing years (get back into that fat suit,boy), having a May-December romance with twenty-something Hera. Adama & Eve.

Pretty good Q&A with Moore, Eick, Mary and Eddie (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/03/20/battlestar-galactica-watched-the-finale-still-got-questions-weve-got-answers/)

Amazing. Astouding. Expected. Check to all of the above. Got to process it all, maybe a second viewing.... first reaction: well, take a bow RDM. We are all your bit**'s now. :o

I want a sequel episode or movie that shows Lee in his advancing years (get back into that fat suit,boy), having a May-December romance with twenty-something Hera. Adama & Eve.

Yawn.

As I mentioned just above, why would the constellations on New Earth match the ones seen from Nuclear Cinder Earth? Can't happen.
What was the significance of the Opera House? The running around after the kid scene was re-enacted in the hallways of Galactica, but besides that, what about "The Opera House" angle?
Who or what were the Lords of Kobol?
Who built the Tomb of Athena on Kobol?
What's with the polytheistic religion vs. the one true god argument?
What is Caprica 6's real name?

There are plenty of others.


We never actually saw what those constellations looked like. They named the new planet after the old. No reason why they couldn't have named the new constellations in the sky after the old, as well.
It was just a kind of a visual metaphor, that's all. It was designed so that Baltar and Six would know in what direction to take Hera to lead them to the CIC.
Kobol was the human civilization that came before Earth and the Twelve Colonies. "Lords of Kobol" is just another name for the gods they believed in, which we can assume were then preached about in what wound up being ancient Greece on Earth.
Presumably it was the humans before they left for Earth, to show the way they were going.
Were you really expecting an answer to that? There isn't one, just like there isn't one in real life, either. Just different beliefs about the same thing, in the end.
The only Cylons who had names were ones who assumed them to blend in with humans. They didn't have "real" ones. All the Sixes were just Sixes; "Caprica Six" was called that to honor her actions that aided in the attack on the Colonies.

6. Sally?
I vote for #6. I like it.

They're not plot holes per se, just unanswered questions. Like what happened to Gaius' Gals and their new firepower? Where did Kara's new Viper come from? What were the head characters, exactly? Angels? How did Anders know the coordinates of the Colony?

A lot boils down to, "God did it" which in a way, is a cop out. On the other hand it was done well. I just wish the previous 9 episodes had all been of the same caliber.

Before the final scene, had anyone speculated that BSG was set 150,000 years in the past instead of perhaps 150,000 years in the future? That was certainly extremely clever and came out of the blue to me.

fafner

Sure, I'd considered it a possibility ever since the first season when it was mentioned that the Colonists believe in the same gods as the ancient Greeks. It seemed highly unlikely that humans in the future would go back to that, so...

They also said this last "Earth" was a million light years away. Given we know

I caught that too. There are quite a few galaxies within a million light years. Tme Milky Way is only 100,000 ly across.

*shrug* we exaggerate things all the time. It's human nature.

I'm still processing the ending. Watching it a second time now.

I certainly thought that it would go out darker than it did, given the over all tone of the show. But I did think the finale was great. The whole cast and crew should be proud of making such a fantastic show.

It pretty much answered every question I had and left some things open to interpretation. I like a show that makes you think. I think this will be one for the ages.

What did NY Baltar mean by "You know he doesn't like to be called by that name, ..... Oh silly me ..."He said (very serious), "You know it doesn't like that name." Then, with a big smile, he touches the temples of his shades and says, "Silly me. Silly, silly me."

God only knows what he meant by it :rolleyes:.

Well, many of my questions kind of went unanswered, except that Kara and the "head" characters were apparently agents of a God working very direct and tangible miracles in their world (whatever the "it" was that doesn't like to be called that :D). Curiously, I enjoyed the ending anyway. I'm very happy that it didn't involve "Daniel" in any way. He was, as I originally thought, just an invention to explain why there was no model #7.

I didn't take that "million light years" comment literally.

You're getting there, Jeff!!

:D

I've got to watch it all again, before I bestow my wisdon on everyone.

You mean you actually HAVE some of that?!? (wisdom, that is), SkyLite?!?!? :p Just how do you fit a wise "dome" and a wise donkey (sic) in the same persona??? :D

Seriously, folks, all friends, here... This is even better the second time around! I think the biggest surprise for me is what heroes both Baltar and Caprica Six end up being... I might have predicted it for her, but not for him... It turned out that the only reason he didn't step over that line to begin with was because he didn't want all his girls stepping over it with him (I'm pretty certain about that, now -- actually I was a couple hours ago). Once he got them all safely aboard the other vessel, he took off with the attack force, as he knew he really needed to, and proved he was more than any of us really believed he was... In the end, Baltar and Caprica were the real heroes -- the two who caused the annihilation of mankind -- what an irony.
Jeff

How did Anders know the coordinates of the Colony?

Which colony? Do you mean Earth, or the ships that were left behind? Earth was found by Starbuck punching in the numbers corresponding with the song's notes. As for the Colonial fleet, they knew the rendezvous coordinates; Adama just didn't have time to recite them to Starbuck before they'd be blown to hell, so he told her to jump them to anywhere, presumably because they could just jump again to the correct location after.

EDIT: Sorry, you meant when he asked Anders the question off camera. Yeah, that will never be answered I guess. Just part of the information stream that so often gave them vital information in other situations.

You mean you actually HAVE some of that?!? (wisdom, that is), SkyLite?!?!? :p Just how do you fit a wise "dome" and a wise donkey (sic) in the same persona??? :D

Seriously, folks, all friends, here... This is even better the second time around! I think the biggest surprise for me is what heroes both Baltar and Caprica Six end up being... I might have predicted it for her, but not for him... It turned out that the only reason he didn't step over that line to begin with was because he didn't want all his girls stepping over it with him (I'm pretty certain about that, now -- actually I was a couple hours ago). Once he got them all safely aboard the other vessel, he took off with the attack force, as he knew he really needed to, and proved he was more than any of us really believed he was... In the end, Baltar and Caprica were the real heroes -- the two who caused the annihilation of mankind -- what an irony.
Jeff

OOOhhhhh! Jeffy,

Frak you. Write tomes and tell us. :D

I caught that too. There are quite a few galaxies within a million light years. Tme Milky Way is only 100,000 ly across.

*shrug* we exaggerate things all the time. It's human nature.

Actually, not to be too "anal," but the closest known galaxy outside our own "Milky Way" is the Andromeda galaxy, at 2 Million Light Years away, so there is a point there about the "million-light-years away" comment, but I agree that it could just be a common "human exaggeration" and am willing to let it slide.

Technically, we're like 30,000 light-years out from the center of a 100-000-light-year-diameter spiral galaxy, so about the furthest away another planet could be from us and be in this galaxy would be 75 or 80,000-light-years, which is still a tremendous distance, given that a single light-year is roughly 6 trillion miles! Given our current technology, even if we had a spacecraft traveling 100,000-MPH (about 4 times faster than our fastest standard manned craft) would take almost 6,850 years to travel a single light-year, and our nearest solar neighbor is about 4.5 light-years away, which is why, as most of us already know, until and unless someone figures out a way to travel faster than light, interstellar travel just isn't practical.
Jeff

Did I hit a nerve with the "anal' thing? You are verbose, you understand.

You're still my friend. :)

Actually, not to be too "anal," but the closest known galaxy outside our own "Milky Way" is the Andromeda galaxy, at 2 Million Light Years away, so there is a point there about the "million-light-years away" comment, but I agree that it could just be a common "human exaggeration" and am willing to let it slide.
Jeff

Andromeda is the closest spiral galaxy to us. It is not, however, the closest in the local group.

By the way, as to Tyrol finding out about Tory murdering Cally and then strangling her in rage: frakking hardcore. They really had me thinking for a minute that there would be a truce between the humans and the Cylon colony.

He said (very serious), "You know it doesn't like that name." Then, with a big smile, he touches the temples of his shades and says, "Silly me. Silly, silly me."

God only knows what he meant by it :rolleyes:.

"It" is clearly a robot living on the moon. .... Know your Azimov folks ;) :D

I vote for #6. I like it.

They're not plot holes per se, just unanswered questions. Like what happened to Gaius' Gals and their new firepower? Where did Kara's new Viper come from? What were the head characters, exactly? Angels? How did Anders know the coordinates of the Colony?

1) they gave up the guns and tech like everyone else;

2) the same place Kara came from, wherever, whatever that is;

3) they're just manifestations of the universal force of nature, as Baltar said in his speech to Cavill, they're beyond good and evil - which are human categories - they're just aspects of the universal force that's been guiding everyone. Fate or Destiny, which is why they do both "good" and "evil" things. I don't know why people seem to be fixating on this idea on whether or not Head Six, Head Baltar, Kara are angels doing the will of God. Take Baltar's CIC monologue seriously: God, angels, good, evil, these are human concepts trying to impose human values on what is valueless force of nature. Fate and Destiny - not God - have guided them to Earth. Why is that so hard to accept? The ancient Greeks would have had no problem with that idea.

4) Anders knows the coordinates because he's plugged into the same data stream as the hybrids, who communicate the whereabouts of the Colony so baseships can find it. Hence, why he's able to order the hybrid to stand down in the battle.

A lot boils down to, "God did it" which in a way, is a cop out.

Is Sophocles' Oedipus Rex a "cop out" because there's no scientific explanation at the end for how Fate has maneuvered Oedipus into sleeping with mom and fulfilling his prophesy? The way Battlestar Galactica ended is the way dramas have been ending for literally thousands of years. No one goes around criticizing the Greek dramas for invoking Fate or Destiny. It's pretty clear, given all the Greek and Roman mythology that's been used in Battlestar, that the writers have a classical bent. So in the end, they resort to the same device - Fate or Destiny - that Greek playwrights did 3000 years ago. I don't have a problem with that.

I figure the "million light years away" was just a manner of speaking. An exaggeration. You only have to go about 10 ly away to start seeing a very different night sky. At Alpha Centauri, the nearest star to us, it would look almost the same with a couple notable exceptions. After that, there's nothing in the immediate vicinity where the stars would be even vaguely familiar.

Just catching glimpses of the replay now... I love how Tory's neck gives a satisfying crack when the Chief is wringing it. Shoulda happened a few episodes ago but better late than never.

Is Sophocles' "Oedipus Rex" a "cop out" because there's no scientific explanation at the end for how Fate has maneuvered Oedipus into sleeping with mom and fulfilling the prophesy? The way Battlestar Galactica ended is the way dramas have been ending for literally thousands of years. No one goes around criticizing the Greek dramas for invoking Fate or Destiny. It's pretty clear, given all the Greek and Roman mythology that's been used in Battlestar, that the writers have a classical bent. So in the end, they resort to the same device - Fate or Destiny - that Greek playwrights did 3000 years ago. I don't have a problem with that.

I enjoyed it overall. I wouldn't go that far in comparing it to classical literature, though. I don't think Sophocles ever wrote anything where the big revelation was on the very last page of the book. The twin themes of Fate and Destiny - or even God and religion - don't necessarily bother me all that much either. It's just a little at odds with the whole, "You Will Know The Truth" ******** they've been feeding us for months. That's a cop out no matter how you slice it. I enjoyed it, though. Could have been better, but I still enjoyed it.

By the way, as to Tyrol finding out about Tory murdering Cally and then strangling her in rage: frakking hardcore. They really had me thinking for a minute that there would be a truce between the humans and the Cylon colony.

I had given up hope that she was going to pay for that. And it turned out to be a pivotal point in the show. The entire truce was trashed because of it!

OOOhhhhh! Jeffy,

Frak you.

You know you wish you could! :p

Slurp!

LMAO!

Slurp! :D

It's just a little at odds with the whole, "You Will Know The Truth" ******** they've been feeding us for months. That's a cop out no matter how you slice it. I enjoyed it, though. Could have been better, but I still enjoyed it.

Created undoubtedly by the marketing folks and not the actual creative team...another reason why I try to avoid the commercials and previews like the plague. They ruin the show and set false expectations.

Well I guess that puts an end to that whole "is that picture New York City from this view?" argument we had about the end of season 4.0 like a year ago.

I enjoyed it overall. I wouldn't go that far in comparing it to classical literature, though.

Agreed. I wasn't saying Ron Moore = Sophocles.:D I don't think Battlestar is anywhere close to the best art or entertainment we have, not just compared to the "classics" but contemporary stuff too. I don't even think it's all that groundbreaking. Many of the themes Moore touched in Battlestar was stuff he explored in Deep Space Nine. Athena/Boomer's struggle with loyalty between humanity and the Cylons was Odo's struggle between the Founders and humans, the Cylon's collective and Ander's quest for perfection sounds awfully like the Borg (Anders pretty much looks like a Borg Queen by the end), etc. etc. Battlestar has been entertaining, ambitious and thought provoking but it's awfully soapy. First season was fine but the last 3 have been a dramatic muddle. This finale definitely had many flaws, I completely agree. Trust me, I'm not a fanboy.:) But one thing that doesn't bug me is the vagueness or that many pieces don't quite fit at the end. It's bound to happen in a TV series with many different writers and 8 eggs are juggled at once. At the end, some of those eggs are bound to be dropped.

So what ever happened to "Kara Thrace is the harbinger of death, she will lead them to their end"?

Also, I don't get how this eventual ending in any way met the ends to the goal they've had the whole series. The "bad" cylons are left still out there, with the "good guys" are settled on a planet that is in no way hidden from them. How is this any different than if they just settled on the first habital planet they came across in the series?

I don't think you can call an ending a "cop out" unless there was something much bigger and more brave they could have done, but gave up on that for a safer ending that betrays the nature of the series. That's not what they did here at all, and I think they very definitively ended things exactly the way they wanted them to play out. There have been elements of religion and mysticism throughout the series, ever since Head Six appeared in Baltar's mind.

You mean you actually HAVE some of that?!? (wisdom, that is), SkyLite?!?!? :p Just how do you fit a wise "dome" and a wise donkey (sic) in the same persona??? :D

Seriously, folks, all friends, here... This is even better the second time around! I think the biggest surprise for me is what heroes both Baltar and Caprica Six end up being... I might have predicted it for her, but not for him... It turned out that the only reason he didn't step over that line to begin with was because he didn't want all his girls stepping over it with him (I'm pretty certain about that, now -- actually I was a couple hours ago). Once he got them all safely aboard the other vessel, he took off with the attack force, as he knew he really needed to, and proved he was more than any of us really believed he was... In the end, Baltar and Caprica were the real heroes -- the two who caused the annihilation of mankind -- what an irony.
Jeff

I am not surprised. There was a lot of Christ imagery around Baltar in the first few seasons.

The "bad" cylons are left still out there

No they aren't; they got nuked into oblivion by Racetrack's raptor.

So what ever happened to "Kara Thrace is the harbinger of death, she will lead them to their end"?

Also, I don't get how this eventual ending in any way met the ends to the goal they've had the whole series. The "bad" cylons are left still out there, with the "good guys" are settled on a planet that is in no way hidden from them. How is this any different than if they just settled on the first habital planet they came across in the series?

The "bad" Cylons are all dead. Unless you are referring to the Centurions? I don't consider them bad, at least not yet.

Kara led them to their end. Humanity and the Cylons will eventually end as races, replaced by hybrids.

The "bad" Cylons are all dead. Unless you are referring to the Centurions? I don't consider them bad, at least not yet.

Firstly, they never showed the colony in any way actually blowing up, rather just getting hit by the nukes. Secondly, it's a bit unreasonable to assume that every single cylon was sitting at home hanging out in the colony and they didn't have baseships out there flying around like they did for the entirety of the 4 year series.

Kara led them to their end. Humanity and the Cylons will eventually end as races, replaced by hybrids.

I knew people would bring up the multiple meanings of the word "end", but that doesn't really hold any water given that the preceeding line in the statement is "harbinger of death".

By the way, I can't help thinking of Starbuck's final scene as the "Final Fantasy X ending".

Why not equate Moore with Sophocles? I think it is only fair. Sophocles isn't a god.

So what ever happened to "Kara Thrace is the harbinger of death, she will lead them to their end"?

Also, I don't get how this eventual ending in any way met the ends to the goal they've had the whole series. The "bad" cylons are left still out there, with the "good guys" are settled on a planet that is in no way hidden from them. How is this any different than if they just settled on the first habital planet they came across in the series?

Kara did lead them to their end. An end to their running and way of life. You can even say their society died when they found Earth.

They did destroy the colony but left the good bad cylons to find their own freedom. Baltar did preach freedom to one of them. Maybe they will forget about humanity and live their own destiny.

Firstly, they never showed the colony in any way actually blowing up, rather just getting hit by the nukes.

The whole thing was coming down around Galactica, to the point where Adama ordered Starbuck to jump them without giving coordinates just to get them the hell out. The colony was toast.

EDIT: From that Q&A with Moore:

Moore: The final [cut] came out a little less clear on that than I intended…. It was scripted and the idea was that when Racetrack hits the nukes—the nukes come in and smack into the colony—it takes the colony out of the stream that was swirling around the singularity and [the colony] fell in and was destroyed. I think as we went through the [editing process], when we kept cutting frames and doing this and that, one of the things that became less apparent was that the colony was doomed. The intention was that everyone who was aboard the colony would perish.

Pretty good Q&A with Moore, Eick, Mary and Eddie (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/03/20/battlestar-galactica-watched-the-finale-still-got-questions-weve-got-answers/)

Pretty Good???? Its excellent...gives clarification on a lot of the questions people are asking

Loved it, perfect ending to the best show on TV.

I have DiSH Network and I noticed a slight jutter (or shaking) to the image during the whole show. It was only happening on SciFi, no other channels were doing it. I even had a few other DVR recordings going on during the finale and they were fine. In fact, this weird jutter is still happening on SciFi for me, and only SciFi. Any one else with DiSH have this problem?


I thought the short preview for Stargate Universe look interesting, I always loved the Stargate shows. The Caprica preview surprised me, not at all what I was expecting. I'll give it a chance but, the preview actually made me less excited for it. What is with the DVD release too, is the show premiering on SciFi before it's release. If so then that is a huge risk because if the DVD bombs and gets horrible reviews no one will tune in to watch the show.

Going to miss BSG, it was a great journey. Can't wait for the complete series to be released on Blu-Ray so I can watch it again. Only thing left on TV right now that gets me excited is The Unit and Lost.