Why did you do this? We had an agreement that is was semantics.

Oh, I'm down with the agreement. ;) It just doesn't seem that he remembered the scene with the equations. Equations are sometimes equated both with calculatin', and interpretin'. That step can't be by-passed. It's all good. :)

Oh, I'm down with the agreement. ;) It just doesn't seem that he remembered the scene with the equations. Equations are sometimes equated both with calculatin', and interpretin'. That step can't be by-passed. It's all good. :)

You can't be trusted. That hurts.

You can't be trusted. That hurts.

There is no growth without pain, young Padawan. :p

I was just about to post the same thing. She is the one who created the calculations to turn the musical notes into the jump co-ordinates. I think the room she was in was kind of cold as well...she was cold and calculating.

LOL. That actually made me laugh.

There is no growth without pain, young Padawan. :p

Hell, fraking no!

I'm....gonna.....oh frak. Crap! I'm just too tired to go farther, especially when you don't play fairly. :D

Kiss my mechanical cylon ass. :p

That really did hurt.:o

I was just about to post the same thing. She is the one who created the calculations to turn the musical notes into the jump co-ordinates. I think the room she was in was kind of cold as well...she was cold and calculating.

LMAO. I didn't even notice that until wingnut quoted it.

Gotta love puns. Pearls Before Swine has some great ones.

LMAO. I didn't even notice that until wingnut quoted it.

Gotta love puns. Pearls Before Swine has some great ones.

....sometimes this thread can get a little....um....intense. However, these puns are for entertainment purposes only. Do not try them at home.

Cold and calculating, huh? :D I submit that since Kara was actually dead the entire season, and the Kara everyone was interacting with was some sort of temporarily resurrected being, she really was "cold and calculating," kind of like "Cold Ethel," huh? :eek:
Jeff

This may be old news, but last night I saw an ad for Chuck and Tricia Helfer is a new character. I think it said she was his new partner?

This may be old news, but last night I saw an ad for Chuck and Tricia Helfer is a new character. I think it said she was his new partner?

Well, her character "Carla" sure ain't coming back on 'Burn Notice'; Fiona took care of that! So, I wouldn't be surprised to see her pop up somewhere else. I personally don't think she did a very memorable job during her run on BN, but she was jaw-dropping fantastic on BSG. She's one of those actors who can't carry a lead role, but with the right supporting part she can be very good. Six was the right part, possibly a "career role" for her. For a lot of others as well, as I'm sure they know. There were reportedly a lot of tears flowing during the finale shoot, for many reasons.

Hell, fraking no!

I'm....gonna.....oh frak. Crap! I'm just too tired to go farther, especially when you don't play fairly. :D

Kiss my mechanical cylon ass. :p

That really did hurt.:o

Then my job here is almost done. Soon, I shall pass over to the "other side". Personally, I'm looking forward to kicking Anders' ass in Pyramid and trading shots with Starbuck. ;)

Then my job here is almost done. Soon, I shall pass over to the "other side". Personally, I'm looking forward to kicking Anders' ass in Pyramid and trading shots with Starbuck. ;)

....hopefully, those of the bullet persuasion. :D

Well, her character "Carla" sure ain't coming back on 'Burn Notice'; Fiona took care of that! So, I wouldn't be surprised to see her pop up somewhere else. I personally don't think she did a very memorable job during her run on BN, but she was jaw-dropping fantastic on BSG. She's one of those actors who can't carry a lead role, but with the right supporting part she can be very good. Six was the right part, possibly a "career role" for her. For a lot of others as well, as I'm sure they know. There were reportedly a lot of tears flowing during the finale shoot, for many reasons.

See, once again proving those Cylons didn't really lose resurrection technology. She keeps popping up in other series. Hah...and they thought they had fooled us. :D

Then my job here is almost done. Soon, I shall pass over to the "other side". Personally, I'm looking forward to kicking Anders' ass in Pyramid and trading shots with Starbuck. ;)

Well, you'll need to give him some handicap points since he is stuck in that goo bath. Not really an even playing field.

....hopefully, those of the bullet persuasion. :D

Awww, as Lee Adama might say, "Can't we all just get along?" :p

Well, you'll need to give him some handicap points since he is stuck in that goo bath. Not really an even playing field.

Not only that, he's bald as a cue ball and I still have a full head 'o hair (although not like that luxurious mane that RDM sports - that guy's got some serious hair :o). I figure that gives me a good shot at Starbuck. I love a gal who can kick my butt 8 ways from Sunday. That's why I got married. :D

Awww, as Lee Adama might say, "Can't we all just get along?" :p

As Zarek might say: "Shoot them!" :p

As Zarek might say: "Shoot them!" :p

And as W.Adama might say, "Hey Tom - what goes around comes around, buddy. Ready, aim...." :D

And as W.Adama might say, "Hey Tom - what goes around comes around, buddy. Ready, aim...." :D

As Cavil might say:" Frak!"

As Cavil might say:" Frak!"

As Starbuck might do: Frak!

Well, at least Cavil didn't have to worry this time about that splitting headache he gets every time he resurrects. :p But I'm not sure I buy him giving up and eating his gun; would he have really done that? (Dean Stockwell apparently thought so; it was his idea.) I would have loved to have seen Cavil get his just desserts from one of his "parents". That woulda' been sweet.

As to the "dying leader not living to see the people reach the promised land", perhaps the assumption that the "leader" was either Roslin or Bill Adama is incorrect. Maybe it was Starbuck all along. Certainly, by the time she finally offed herself, she was dying inside. She had lost all hope and was just acting on instinct. So she dies, but in doing so is able to set a chain in motion by her "resurrection" that ultimately leads them to New Earth, and a new shot at getting it right. Then, mission accomplished, she finally finds the happiness and contentment that eluded her for her entire life and "ascends" to "the other side". Insert your Judeo-Christian analogy here. The fact that they ultimately may go down the same path again, as evidenced by the epilogue, is evidence of a fundamental flaw in humanity - free will? - that not only defines us, but ultimately continues to destroy us. Nonetheless, as Angel Six says, there's always hope that maybe this time, we'll get it right. And the implication is that "God" will continue to "play dice with the universe" until we do, in fact, get it right and are able to continue man's journey to a place of ultimate enlightenment and peace.

Food for thought, which has always been the whole idea of this show. I suspect that many of us may look at the ending of this series differently after a period of time and reflection.
My thought is that the "dying leader" was actually Galactica. She had been the leader of the fleet from the beginning of the series. She was "dying" for all of Season 4.5 and they kept making that point over and over.

And Galactica did lead them to their new home (Earth-2). I guess you can question whether she was "alive" after the final jump or not.

That's my story and I'm sticking with it.
Interesting take on Starbuck being the leader. Certainly by the end Roslin was too ill to do any actual leading.

...and it was Starbuck who did the final jump calculation that took them to Earth-2. Of course, she wasn't dying at the time--just dead--but alive. Sort of.

Well, symbolically, Galactica could work as the figure. Often referred to as "she", Tigh did say of the final jump that she "broke her back" and would never jump again.

But I'm not sure I buy him giving up and eating his gun; would he have really done that? (Dean Stockwell apparently thought so; it was his idea.)

his arrogance make him do it, he would rather blow his head off rather than be killed by the ones he despises.

Well, at least Cavil didn't have to worry this time about that splitting headache he gets every time he resurrects. :p But I'm not sure I buy him giving up and eating his gun; would he have really done that? (Dean Stockwell apparently thought so; it was his idea.) I would have loved to have seen Cavil get his just desserts from one of his "parents". That woulda' been sweet.

They were going to have Tigh throw Cavil over a railing to his death.

I think it makes some sense that Cavil killed himself.

Without the resurrection technology he had no chance of possibly downloading into a new metallic body. He totally hated his human-like squishy body and since he was practically good as dead anyway, he decided to end it for good, since, again, there was no hope without the resurrection technology.

It could also be suggested that he hated humans so much that he hated himself for being so much like them, to the point of self-destruction.

ETA: And, since they believed in a god, maybe he wanted to take his chances in a life after death rather than his hated life as a "humanoid".

his arrogance make him do it, he would rather blow his head off rather than be killed by the ones he despises.

When I first saw it, I thought that in the fog of war he forgot that he could not resurrect.

Afraid I’ve been indisposed recently, but better late than never, and it is a traditional BSG night, so what the hey.

What happened to Palladin? Instead of saying the same thing over and over, I agree with his posts 8144 and 8148. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15886383#post15886383) They were written nearly a month ago and my opinion hasn't changed much since then. I wonder if he still feels the same way?

First, ed, let me express my regrets for not having gotten back to you on this sooner, but certain other important matters came up which required my immediate attention. The quick and easy answer to your question is a most emphatic: ‘Yes,’ I still feel exactly the same way now as I did then. In fact, possibly more so for 2 distinct reasons.

1) Too much of those “character driven” moments felt like audition tapes intended to help smooth the transition for a number of actors, in terms of finding future work. In essence, rather than providing the motivation of the characters as claimed, the obviousness of those moments only served to break what can eloquently be referred to now as the “fifth wall”, and diluted the emotional impact that it was supposedly intended to deliver. IOW, it traded the gravity of the circumstances for a cheap wink and a nod, and for me, resulted in a disservice to the entire series generally.

2) Although I’ve only skimmed this thread very superficially, and haven’t had made much effort to catch up with its current status, I thought the strong re-introductions of the whole God/Angel themes came across to me as a total ‘Hail Mary’ (pun intended) pass, which further accentuated how far things had gone afoul, and the desperate need to just wrap this baby up so they could move on to the shiny bright lights and largesse of Caprica.

RDM et al, had gone to great effort over the past 4-5 seasons to sell us a bill of goods on the concept that the whole notion of polytheistic gods (roman, greek, norse, etc.) were nothing more than just one more ‘pipe dream’ to create false hope to spur the masses on. Certainly this theme was hammered over several times by the statements and actions of Adama, Baltar and Roslyn during the course of this story. So having firmly implanted that precept as the dogma of the story, they then pull a 360 at the end because it provided an easy out???!!! Talk about the man behind the curtain.

Nice to know that the purported ‘smartest’ show on television thought it was being watched by the stupidest audience imaginable. Now was it ‘consistent’ to the extent that it did make reference to the notion of ‘Gods’ or Angels at some point. Yeah, probably, I guess, if you’re a firm believer in the notion that there HAS to be a pea under one of the shells, because the scam artist pushing them assures you that there is. The vfx and fireworks battle sequence was certainly enjoyable from a ‘kitchen sink’ point of view, but I guess I was expecting something just a little bit more than the rather obvious and already discounted theology fable to put this series to bed .

Oh, btw, while I'm catching up with everything BSG anyway, Grouchodude, what happened to all of those amazing insights you were promising were imminently forthcoming from Mat Stephens? I did take a careful look for those gems to find out about all the stuff the rest of us clearly must have missed out on, and yet despite my due diligence, I was surprised to discover there was really no ‘Mat Stephens’ stuff to be found anywhere here.

Bummer, dude. :rolleyes:

_______________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

ETA: And, since they believed in a god, maybe he wanted to take his chances in a life after death rather than his hated life as a "humanoid".

Cavil was an atheist, though. He played along, but on several occasions he has expressed his contempt for religion. In fact, we saw hints of it waaaay back when we first saw him "counsel" the Chief, before we knew who he really was. I remember thinking he had some purty strange ideas for a priest. ;) In fact, if you go back and revisit that episode today, knowing what we know now, it's pretty darn cool. ("I know you're not a Cylon [Chief] because I'm one and we never see you at any of the meetings.") :D

... So having firmly implanted that precept as the dogma of the story, they then pull a 360 at the end because it provided an easy out???!!! Talk about the man behind the curtain.

Nice to know that the purported ‘smartest’ show on television thought it was being watched by the stupidest audience imaginable. ...

... but I guess I was expecting something just a little bit more than the rather obvious and already discounted theology fable to put this series to bed .

I agree. :) Here we all thought RDM was a Prophet, but in the end, he turned out to be a Disciple. ;) :D

Cavil was an atheist, though. He played along, but on several occasions he has expressed his contempt for religion. In fact, we saw hints of it waaaay back when we first saw him "counsel" the Chief, before we knew who he really was. I remember thinking he had some purty strange ideas for a priest. ;) In fact, if you go back and revisit that episode today, knowing what we know now, it's pretty darn cool. ("I know you're not a Cylon [Chief] because I'm one and we never see you at any of the meetings.") :D

Yeah. I shouldn't have added the ETA. I realized that later but too late to change it fairly. :p


So....what about the other points?

Oh, and apparently "God" does play dice with the Universe and all it's creatures .... ;) :D

i don't think it's that he necessarily plays dice, rather then he sits back and enjoys the show free will creates.

Once the system goes out of wack, and life almost destroys itself, he gives it clues to get back to redemption and a new beginning, if they so choose.

Yes, she did. They showed her pouring over a sheet of paper that had calculations written all over it as she worked it out. Don't know how you could have missed that.

That was when she was trying to make sense of it. She also said she was getting nowhere.

The key was much simpler then that, but she needed to take a leap of faith to believe in it being that simple..

So....what about the other points?

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I can see it. Cavil did so despise his fleshy body. When the jig was up, it was up; why go on? It is in character. Still would have loved to see Tigh fling him over the rail though, for disrespecting his elders and being a bad, bad boy. :p

That was when she was trying to make sense of it. She also said she was getting nowhere.

The key was much simpler then that, but she needed to take a leap of faith to believe in it being that simple..

Uh oh; I think that may be right. I might owe SkyLite an apology. :o :p

I read some of Bear McCreary's blog (http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/?p=1760#more-1760)that moog linked earlier when he was talking about this. Pretty incredible. They really thought this thing out to a greater extent, with more complexity, than the casual fan can imagine - related it to astronomical coordinates, and came up with numbers that actually made sense. Then they allowed the scene to develop around his score rather than the typical other way around, which they felt was the only way to make it "authentic". Good stuff, and typical of the remarkable level of detail on this show.

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I can see it. Cavil did so despise his fleshy body. When the jig was up, it was up; why go on? It is in character. Still would have loved to see Tigh fling him over the rail though, for disrespecting his elders and being a bad, bad boy. :p

I'm with that. Maybe after a spanking?

Tigh to Cavil: "You've (spank) been (spank) a naughty (spank) boy!" (fling)

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I can see it. Cavil did so despise his fleshy body. When the jig was up, it was up; why go on? It is in character. <snip>


Uh oh; I think that may be right. I might owe SkyLite an apology. :o :p <snip>

:eek:

^^^ Now, where's that pesky pistol I keep around for just such an occasion...? :p

What I was alluding to earlier, also, was that Cavil might have wanted the resurrection technology so that he could reverse enginner it and maybe download himself into a mechanical body. That seems to be highly likely, to me given how much he hated his body and loved the metallic ones.

Maybe I'm stretching it, though.

Nawwww! :)

ETA: That smacks of Disney's "The Black Hole", doesn't it?

What I was alluding to earlier, also, was that Cavil might have wanted the resurrection technology so that he could reverse enginner it and maybe download himself into a mechanical body. That seems to be highly likely, to me given how much he hated his body and loved the metallic ones.


I didn't think resurrection (Organic Memory Transfer, as Anders termed it) was possible for the centurions, only the humanoid Cylons...? The centurions, possessing no organic components, probably go on for eons as long as they're "recharged" regularly and get spare parts or something. I don't think we ever heard what powers them.

I didn't think resurrection (Organic Memory Transfer, as Anders termed it) was possible for the centurions, only the humanoid Cylons...? The centurions, possessing no organic components, probably go on for eons as long as they're "recharged" regularly and get spare parts or something. I don't think we ever heard what powers them.

Well....

Cavil has an organic memory, doesn't he? I'm just suggesting a reverse process into a metal body.

They made 'organics' out of toasters, didn't they? I guess the process could be reversed, eh?

Well....

Cavil has an organic memory, doesn't he? I'm just suggesting a reverse process into a metal body.

They made 'organics' out of toasters, didn't they? I guess the process could be reversed, eh?

One way to look at it might be that as much as he hated his fleshy body (except when he was gettin' frisky with Ellen & Boomer, presumably), he resurrected repeatedly but never into a centurion body. If he could have, he probably would have. He'd have some serious firepower right at his fingertips. You know he'd love that!

One way to look at it might be that as much as he hated his fleshy body (except when he was gettin' frisky with Ellen & Boomer, presumably), he resurrected repeatedly but never into a centurion body. If he could have, he probably would have. He'd have some serious firepower right at his fingertips. You know he'd love that!

That's why I was suggesting he possibly wanted to reverse engineer the technology,.... not that it already existed.

I didn't think resurrection (Organic Memory Transfer, as Anders termed it) was possible for the centurions, only the humanoid Cylons...? The centurions, possessing no organic components, probably go on for eons as long as they're "recharged" regularly and get spare parts or something. I don't think we ever heard what powers them.

They hinted at the centurions having an organic brain, of some sort. Why else would they have telencephalic inhibitors or able to be infected with encephalitis?

Rusty memory here: didn't the episode with "Scar" indicate that he (it) resurrected and each time it just made him/it meaner? If the fighters had organic brains, and we know they did since Starbuck was crawling around in on, might be reasonable to think the centurions had them as well.

The only thing is---with all the centurion on centurion fighting I don't remember ever seeing any splattered brain matter.

Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scar_(Battlestar_Galactica)

Starbuck is shocked to learn later from the Cylon prisoner Sharon, that Raiders resurrect just like the humanoid Cylon models. Scar is very experienced, having learned from its mistakes time and time again, and it holds an especially seething hatred for Viper pilots. Every time Scar has been destroyed and reborn it has suffered pain and it is a machine filled with bitterness and anger. With the resurrection ship eliminated, Sharon feels that, once Scar is destroyed, the fleet will no longer have to fear its return.

The raiders were more organic, yes. But I don't think there was ever any mention of centurion resurrection, and we never saw any blood or other hint of organics in their bodies when they were destroyed. The inhibitor was an electronic gadget; I'd compare that to a governor on a car. The resurrection tech was developed by the Final Five for humanoid and then raider use.

The raiders were more organic, yes. But I don't think there was ever any mention of centurion resurrection, and we never saw any blood or other hint of organics in their bodies when they were destroyed. The inhibitor was an electronic gadget; I'd compare that to a governor on a car. The resurrection tech was developed by the Final Five for humanoid and then raider use.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_akNlYNgB9zY/SJCfxnYRjKI/AAAAAAAAAFU/HWNyY-5H-1w/s320-R/picard-no-facepalm.jpg

:D

Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scar_(Battlestar_Galactica)

Starbuck is shocked to learn later from the Cylon prisoner Sharon, that Raiders resurrect just like the humanoid Cylon models. Scar is very experienced, having learned from its mistakes time and time again, and it holds an especially seething hatred for Viper pilots. Every time Scar has been destroyed and reborn it has suffered pain and it is a machine filled with bitterness and anger. With the resurrection ship eliminated, Sharon feels that, once Scar is destroyed, the fleet will no longer have to fear its return.
That must be one huge tank of gew.

Hey, I may be dumb but I wasn't the one implying humanoid to centurion resurrection with no evidence the centurions had organic brains, buddy.

Gadzooks, I can't believe the staggering level of nerdiness in that statement. I oughta' be dressed like that guy. ^ :D

Hey, I may be dumb but I wasn't the one implying humanoid to centurion resurrection with no evidence the centurions had organic brains, buddy.

Then you aren't reading or are only bringing up strawmen. And....you aren't dumb.

There's no need trying to explain this further. It was only a concept, anyway. :cool:

I'll just get on the wireless with Ron Moore and settle this little question once and for all. Not going to let a little restraining order stand in the way of the frakkin' Truth, by gods! Now where's that number...

I'll just get on the wireless with Ron Moore and settle this little question once and for all. Not going to let a little restraining order stand in the way of the frakkin' Truth, by gods! Now where's that number...

Look at the sheet music on your piano or music stand. ;)

1) Too much of those “character driven” moments felt like audition tapes intended to help smooth the transition for a number of actors, in terms of finding future work. In essence, rather than providing the motivation of the characters as claimed, the obviousness of those moments only served to break what can eloquently be referred to now as the “fifth wall”, and diluted the emotional impact that it was supposedly intended to deliver. IOW, it traded the gravity of the circumstances for a cheap wink and a nod, and for me, resulted in a disservice to the entire series generally.

2) I thought the strong re-introductions of the whole God/Angel themes came across to me as a total ‘Hail Mary’ (pun intended) pass, which further accentuated how far things had gone afoul, and the desperate need to just wrap this baby up so they could move on to the shiny bright lights and largesse of Caprica.

RDM et al, had gone to great effort over the past 4-5 seasons to sell us a bill of goods on the concept that the whole notion of polytheistic gods (roman, greek, norse, etc.) were nothing more than just one more ‘pipe dream’ to create false hope to spur the masses on. Certainly this theme was hammered over several times by the statements and actions of Adama, Baltar and Roslyn during the course of this story. So having firmly implanted that precept as the dogma of the story, they then pull a 360 at the end because it provided an easy out???!!! Talk about the man behind the curtain.
Nice to know that the purported ‘smartest’ show on television thought it was being watched by the stupidest audience imaginable. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Now was it ‘consistent’ to the extent that it did make reference to the notion of ‘Gods’ or Angels at some point. Yeah, probably, I guess, if you’re a firm believer in the notion that there HAS to be a pea under one of the shells, because the scam artist pushing them assures you that there is. The vfx and fireworks battle sequence was certainly enjoyable from a ‘kitchen sink’ point of view, but I guess I was expecting something just a little bit more than the rather obvious and already discounted theology fable to put this series to bed .

Grouchodude, what happened to all of those amazing insights you were promising were imminently forthcoming

Finally, a voice of sanity in this thread after pages of RDM fanboys attempting vainly to ascribe meaning to RDM's hacked patchwork of an ending. I was more forgiving than you of the Angels & Demons Deus Ex Machina ending, but I see your valid points.

I don't think they're/we're RDM "fanboys".

It happens, consistantly, in life. People try to "plug the missing holes of the meaning of life".

And like us.....we are all just trying to make sense of what is handed us. :)

Those who act like they know everything, don't know sh@t.

Plus a lot of us have been critical of the series in the past, and definitely of certain episodes (**cough** Woman King and Sine Qua Non **cough**).

I don't know if it's been posted yet, but as I said before, that scene with everyone chasing Hera was probably my favourite scene. And now I'm wondering...is that how Hera saw the Galactica? As an opera house?

Plus a lot of us have been critical of the series in the past, and definitely of certain episodes (**cough** Woman King and Sine Qua Non **cough**).

I don't know if it's been posted yet, but as I said before, that scene with everyone chasing Hera was probably my favourite scene. And now I'm wondering...is that how Hera saw the Galactica? As an opera house?

I think the "glow" of the five is very reminicent of the Ship Of Light or Lords of Kobol from the original. For whatever that's worth.

IMO, Hera is precognitive concerning things to come. She seens to control everything, including crying to Boomer, staying silent, running..... She seems very much "aware" of her fate, the way they played her.

The Opera House? I saw no "fat lady singing". (ok. cheap shot).

I can't help but think that the Opera House is nothing but allegory, for things to come, very much as I believe the Bible has done. The Bible wouldn't say: " On the CIC of the Battleship Galactica....." etc.... :D

In other words: I don't know!!

I watch "Chuck" every week, and from what I saw in the previews at the end of last week's show, it appears The General is going to try to replace his "cover girlfriend," Sarah, played by Yvonne Strahovski, with a new CIA agent, played by Tricia Helfer (the previews didn't indicate exactly why, but I suspect The General has figured out that she is secretly "too soft" on him {the audience knows she's secretly in love with him, but he doesn't}).

At any ate, from the preview it appears that the new agent is going to encounter some "resistance" from Sarah (hard to tell if she's going to see Tricia Helfer's character as possibly being a double-agent, or just jealous). Sooooo, there's no telling if Tricia will be a new character or a one-timer. Frankly, I think adding her as a new character for the current three-some to play off would make the show more interesting and definitely add to what is already a rather high sexy factor for the show.
Jeff

I have been very silent on this thread for the past week or so - mainly because I was on vacation until Wednesday and didn't get a chance to watch the final until that night. Now I have had a few days to digest it.

First off, my wife really liked the episode. She liked it because she understood it - the ending wasn't some convoluted abstract metaphysical ending where you watch it and say, "What the heck did that mean?"

I, however, have fallen firmly in the camp that the episode was nothing more of a Deus Ex Machina where, really, not much was answered. There were resolutions, to be sure, but they seemed convenient and, to a large degree, somewhat incomprehensible.

Now I understand when Ron Moore said in an interview before the final that he was having trouble getting the episode to paper and that he finally realized that "it was all about the characters, stupid." He basically left the story as one massive plot hole in order to give resolution to the private battles the characters had been facing the whole series. And while I commend him for that - for giving his characters resolution - I just wish he HAD concentrated on tying up some of the loose ends relating to the universe he had created. Now I am convinced, rather than having a grand plan for the weird stuff that was going on, he really just threw some crap at the screen, then had written himself into a corner that he couldn't extricate himself from - then said, "Frak it, I won't even begin to explain it except that God did it."

There was no explanation of Starbuck, or her shiny viper, or her knowledge of the song, or even HOW she even figured out what the song meant - the coordinates for the jump. Speaking of the song, there was no explanation as to why the final five were so tuned into the song - why they heard it when they reached that nebula, and what it all meant. The 5 came to the conclusion they were cylons and were switched on by that song - they never explained who did the switching or why.

Oh yes, it must have been God (except he hates that name, by the way, whatever that means).

And I don't even really mind the stuff regarding mitochondrial eve (All of humanity is related to Hera? As pointed out, I would think the 30,000 scattered across the globe would have had some kind of effect on populating the earth.

But the fact that they could reproduce with the hominids? I am glad that they referenced how minute the probability would be that a race could evolve on a distant planet with the ability to reproduce with an "alien race". At least in Star Trek, life was "seeded" throughout the Galaxy by the progenitor race which, I guess, explained how Spock could be a hybrid. Oh yeah, God did it.

Generally, I was left very unsatisfied by the ending.

As to the epilogue with the 150,000 year jump, I kind of came up with the idea that the Head Six/Baltar beings were, in fact, God (even though "they" don't like to be called that). Listen to the last few lines, watch their expressions. If there's a higher power those two answer to, I think it's themselves. Playing dice with the universe. Maybe it'll come up 7's this time. One possibility: an ancient race who achieved sentience then passed on to a "higher plane" and now exist outside space/time, but able to pop in and out on a subconscious/psychic level and influence things as they see fit. Not good, not bad, just... something else. They clearly have some semblance of a moral compass, as they're trying to get things to turn out differently for poor beleaguered mankind, but they can't directly interfere. So, they just keep rolling the dice... For me, that doesn't fit the description of a benevolent, omniscient God, so I've filled in that blank myself.

Now, as to Starbuck, that's a toughie. She was something different altogether. I posted some thoughts (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16130897#post16130897)on that the other day. I do agree that there should have been something more tangible for the fans to grab onto where she and her shiny new Viper were concerned. An angel? Really? I can take one mysterious existential force influencing events, but two is asking a lot. That said, that final scene with Kara saying goodbye to Lee and just vanishing grabbed me with both hands firmly about the throat, every time I've watched it. Manipulative? Sure. Wonderful? Oh yeah. :)

I can offer this advice Steve. You've always been a big fan, big thoughts posted here on the ol' thread. Watch it again, maybe from the standpoint of letting go with your [legitimate] objections and just letting the lyrical beauty of the episode wash over you. It's a technological marvel of filmmaking (said at the risk of inviting some rolling eyes; I get that. :p). I've seen the last 40 minutes a few times now and I've started to appreciate it more, just on the power of the words and images. Bear McCreary's full-orchestral score is magnificent; never heard anything as powerful done for the small screen. I posted some thoughts on that in the Caprica thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16142380#post16142380)that I won't regurgitate here.

I do agree that there should have been something more tangible for the fans to grab onto where she and her shiny new Viper were concerned. An angel? Really? I can take one mysterious existential force influencing events, but two is asking a lot. That said, that final scene with Kara saying goodbye to Lee and just vanishing grabbed me with both hands firmly about the throat, every time I've watched it. Manipulative? Sure. Wonderful? Oh yeah. :)


But that's the thing. That scene worked so well for be because it was so ambiguous. The moment the camera started focusing on Lee and away from Starbuck I knew she was going to disappear, and I just had a smirk on my face. On the one hand, I loved it because it didn't get tied down to some mumbo-jumbo scientific reasoning, and on the other, I just knew there'd be a crapload of people who would hate it for the exact same reason I loved it. That ambiguity explains a lot about what has happened since her death, but that ambiguity is also what pisses off a few people (like Steve wasn't a fan but his wife was for example).

To me, it boils down to this...by leaving it all open to interpretation, they avoided what I think would have been a far worse offense...a scientific explanation that couldn't hold up under any kind of scrutiny. By saying that there is some other force, call it god or whatever, they didn't get bogged down with trying to have their explanation fit with everything that had come before, possibly contradicting themselves along the way. And more importantly, because there has always been a hint of something otherworldly in the series, it works.

I have been very silent on this thread for the past week or so - mainly because I was on vacation until Wednesday and didn't get a chance to watch the final until that night. Now I have had a few days to digest it.
Having been in a somewhat similar situation, I'm also glad I felt no need to rush to judgment immediately, because there sure was a helluva lot going on, even if much of it didn't make a whole lot ofr sense.

, I however, have fallen firmly in the camp that the episode was nothing more of a Deus Ex Machina where, really, not much was answered. There were resolutions, to be sure, but they seemed convenient and, to a large degree, somewhat incomprehensible.
I've already expressed being of a like mind, and my only response under the circumstances would be that I admire your contraint. ;)

Now I understand when Ron Moore said in an interview before the final that he was having trouble getting the episode to paper and that he finally realized that "it was all about the characters, stupid." He basically left the story as one massive plot hole in order to give resolution to the private battles the characters had been facing the whole series. And while I commend him for that - for giving his characters resolution - I just wish he HAD concentrated on tying up some of the loose ends relating to the universe he had created. Now I am convinced, rather than having a grand plan for the weird stuff that was going on, he really just threw some crap at the screen, then had written himself into a corner that he couldn't extricate himself from - then said, "Frak it, I won't even begin to explain it except that God did it.

There was no explanation of Starbuck, or her shiny viper, or her knowledge of the song, or even HOW she even figured out what the song meant - the coordinates for the jump. Speaking of the song, there was no explanation as to why the final five were so tuned into the song - why they heard it when they reached that nebula, and what it all meant. The 5 came to the conclusion they were cylons and were switched on by that song - they never explained who did the switching or why.

Oh yes, it must have been God (except he hates that name, by the way, whatever that means).

And I don't even really mind the stuff regarding mitochondrial eve (All of humanity is related to Hera? As pointed out, I would think the 30,000 scattered across the globe would have had some kind of effect on populating the earth.

But the fact that they could reproduce with the hominids? I am glad that they referenced how minute the probability would be that a race could evolve on a distant planet with the ability to reproduce with an "alien race". At least in Star Trek, life was "seeded" throughout the Galaxy by the progenitor race which, I guess, explained how Spock could be a hybrid. Oh yeah, God did it.

Generally, I was left very unsatisfied by the ending.
Bingo. Give the man a cigar.

______________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

If you expected the show to follow the "god" senario, since they beat you over the head with it from the start, you weren't as disappointed as the ones who heard it but didn't want to listen and hoped for a different outcome. (oh....the religious irony!)

My take on the whole thing comes down to:
Man (free will) = God (random chance)

Food for thought?

Kinda boils down to the same thing, does it not? Just some of my thoughts.

And...

I can't think of one ancient myth which doesn't include a "god" in the story telling. Not one! :D

And...

I can't think of one ancient myth which doesn't include a "god" in the story telling. Not one! :D

I actually am not one of those that minded the notion of God in the whole series. I loved how they dealt with religion in the show. I loved how they made Baltar an instrument of God. My sense for the finale, however, was more akin to RDM saying to himself, I can't possibly tie this up, so I am not going to - he punted. And while I can appreciate the "lyrical beauty" of the finale (which I did enjoy, by the way), I just wish that RDM would have had that AND had SOME KIND of explanation as to what was going on.

And possibly what was particularly unsatisfying to me was the stuff he DID actually explain really made no difference in the grand scheme of things. So Roslyn and Caprica have that vision of Hera in the Opera House (which I really did like), and it shows what that vision really meant - and I liked that bit, it turns out that the scene really made no difference in the long run. Really, anyone could have picked up Hera and walked into the CIC. They set up Caprica and Baltar taking Hera like they were her saviors, but it didn't really matter. Then Baltar gives that impassioned speach about living in peace, which (inexplicably) convinces Cavil to call a truce (which was horrendously out of character). Then Galen kills Tory igniting the "final confrontation" - turns out that Baltar's big speech really did mean nothing. (I have to say, however, that I LOVED that scene where Cavil basically says, "Holy Crap" and puts the gun in his mouth. After ALL of what he has been through, he ends up taking his own life. The way Dean Stockwell played it was priceless.)

I actually am not one of those that minded the notion of God in the whole series. I loved how they dealt with religion in the show. I loved how they made Baltar an instrument of God. My sense for the finale, however, was more akin to RDM saying to himself, I can't possibly tie this up, so I am not going to - he punted. And while I can appreciate the "lyrical beauty" of the finale (which I did enjoy, by the way), I just wish that RDM would have had that AND had SOME KIND of explanation as to what was going on.

And possibly what was particularly unsatisfying to me was the stuff he DID actually explain really made no difference in the grand scheme of things. So Roslyn and Caprica have that vision of Hera in the Opera House (which I really did like), and it shows what that vision really meant - and I liked that bit, it turns out that the scene really made no difference in the long run. Really, anyone could have picked up Hera and walked into the CIC. They set up Caprica and Baltar taking Hera like they were her saviors, but it didn't really matter. Then Baltar gives that impassioned speach about living in peace, which (inexplicably) convinces Cavil to call a truce (which was horrendously out of character). Then Galen kills Tory igniting the "final confrontation" - turns out that Baltar's big speech really did mean nothing. (I have to say, however, that I LOVED that scene where Cavil basically says, "Holy Crap" and puts the gun in his mouth. After ALL of what he has been through, he ends up taking his own life. The way Dean Stockwell played it was priceless.)

Your phrase 'lyrical beauty' describes the finale well. Watching the finale I really enjoy it. The problem arises as the TV is turned off and any rational thinking whatsoever enters the scene. It's clear from podcasts, interviews and most especially the series and denoument itself that RDM had nary a clue of what he was doing plot wise or regarding behind the scenes explanations for BSG's many creative and intriguing aspects. Instead, he simply consistently opted for the WOW! impact scene, e.g. Cavil's brain blow job. He was always great on initial creative concept, latest example 'the Opera Scene itself', but woefull on weaving any real meaning or substance into the series. A true slacker when it cam to work, thoughtful insight or meaning.

Although I was at least satisfied with the finale, BSG's ending remained consistent with what I've always believed about these epic shows--there's simply no way to end them in any fashion that matches the buildup of the show's premise. 'Lost' is guaranteed to suffer the same fate, 'The Sopranos' certainly went this route. It's like the opposite of the phrase 'The sum is greater then the parts'. Once you start watching a show like this, you have to calibrate your expectations for the ending. In the end, the parts are somehow greater than the sum.
I'll still look back on this as a fantastic show.

Although I was at least satisfied with the finale, BSG's ending remained consistent with what I've always believed about these epic shows--there's simply no way to end them in any fashion that matches the buildup of the show's premise. 'Lost' is guaranteed to suffer the same fate, 'The Sopranos' certainly went this route. It's like the opposite of the phrase 'The sum is greater then the parts'. Once you start watching a show like this, you have to calibrate your expectations for the ending. In the end, the parts are somehow greater than the sum.
I'll still look back on this as a fantastic show.

Agreed.

It will be fun to read or watch "explainations" for certain plot holes in the future...maybe, even, in "Caprica". They might just do a prequel type justification there. Then again, they do have that comic book coming out.

Which should be comforting to Palladin. ;)

I think Caprica and Baltar taking Hera into the CIC was pivotal, and it really couldn't have been anyone else, because of their dual roles, the fact that they were respective leaders from the two sides who came together out of love, the fact that together they led to the destruction of first most of human civilization, and then, most of Cylon civilization (even though Caprica was separated from Baltar at that point, I really think her exposure to him played and other humans played a big part in that).

And foremost amongst this, in my estimation, is that they were real-world proxies for the angels, who, for whatever reason(s), took their form for eternity and somehow made certain that the two of them existed in exactly their form "in the flesh" at this point in time, for the purpose of "rebooting" humanity properly... At least that's how I see it. While Baltar and Caprica were never more than Human and Cylon, they were, somehow, "divinely inspired."

I commend an "atheist" like the wise Moobius for nonetheless giving this series finale props for the way it went out. I'm not a religious person, although I believe in "God" and an interconnecting, eternal life force. Considering that most, if not all of the most respected cosmologists today also seem to believe (or at least strongly support) hypotheses and theories supporting potentially infinite universes (multiverse theories), I'm also of the opinion that it may actually not be possible to even imagine something that doesn't already exist... Consider this viewpoint: The word "imagine" can be broken down into two other words -- image -- in, as in bringing into your mind's eye an image of something that already exists somewhere, sometime. Even if you do actually create something "new," who's to say you haven't actually created a "new universe" in the process... not just a "universe on film," but possibly a real universe at some level, in some respect, which, of course, we can't interact with in any real way.

I'm well aware nothing I'm saying here is new. I'm not saying any of it's true, either... just "food for thought." Then again, prove it's not true. :cool:
Jeff

I think Caprica and Baltar taking Hera into the CIC was pivotal, and it really couldn't have been anyone else, because of their dual roles, the fact that they were respective leaders from the two sides who came together out of love, the fact that together they led to the destruction of first most of human civilization, and then, most of Cylon civilization (even though Caprica was separated from Baltar at that point, I really think her exposure to him played and other humans played a big part in that).

And foremost amongst this, in my estimation, is that they were real-world proxies for the angels, who, for whatever reason(s), took their form for eternity and somehow made certain that the two of them existed in exactly their form "in the flesh" at this point in time, for the purpose of "rebooting" humanity properly... At least that's how I see it. While Baltar and Caprica were never more than Human and Cylon, they were, somehow, "divinely inspired."


Jeff

Fair points.

Gadzooks, I can't believe the staggering level of nerdiness in that statement. I oughta' be dressed like that guy. ^ :D

The show's been over for a week and no more are coming, only the Nerds are left.

For the record, put me down as one who loved the finale. I loved the touch of the new admiral and president and transferring the Admiral's Flag, this show has always nailed military protocol. They put the money into a phenomenal battle scene in and out of the Ships, that dominated the show. Going "Around the Horn" prior to the attack was perfect. They had us believing that there was going to be truce through negotiations. We got payback for Calley's death. The battle erupts again in the confines of the CIC. Starbuck takes a Leap of Faith and uses Watchtower as the co ordinates. Starbuck remains an enigma, good for them. The Ship, object of so much of our passion, is broken in it's final jump. They found our Earth, they are our Ancestors.
And they ROCKED with Jimi's version, my favorite tune of all time, as the show came to an end.

Having said that, I was feeling that something was not right, missing, and I realized, I was expecting more Pathos, more tear jerks, more darkness. I think many were.
But they gave us Light and Hope and a green and flourishing Earth.

On each re watching I have enjoyed it more, and it has made more sense. And as been stated before, each time I watch it see more of the subtle pathos of the loss and the heartbreak of death and separation.

I have no problems with a Super Race, that has moved beyond the corporal realm, and interferes in our universe with fixes and or glitches. Nor do I have a problem with a designer of the Universe who lurks around, occasionally tweaking with his creation, still trying to get it to flow right, after 5 billion years.

The few unanswered questions are just bonuses to be mulled over for years.

There was no explanation of Starbuck, or her shiny viper, or her knowledge of the song, or even HOW she even figured out what the song meant - the coordinates for the jump. Speaking of the song, there was no explanation as to why the final five were so tuned into the song - why they heard it when they reached that nebula, and what it all meant. The 5 came to the conclusion they were cylons and were switched on by that song - they never explained who did the switching or why.

Oh yes, it must have been God (except he hates that name, by the way, whatever that means).

...maybe not God, but some sort of superior entity(s) that oversees these sequential cycles of cylon/man birth, cylon/man confrontation, cylon/man annihilation, cylon/man rebirth. Does it really have to be explained explicitly for it to be satisfactorily answered? (rhetorical) Maybe it is the final five that operate all of this from a top-down aspect. The final five that we have observed in the show are like the Christ counterparts to the final five that we never see (not separate entities, but parts of the same entity). They orchestrate the larger trends and the fundamental details of this universe, but leave the overall micro-management to just watching it all play out on its own. They've gotten to the point where the cycle perpetuates itself infinitely, but they are still trying to tweak it to avoid the confrontation phase. One of these cycles they will get it right, but it is a humdinger of a riddle, for the time being.

Starbuck is the one additional component that the superiors have granted themselves as a direct physical influencer (agent) in their experimental universe. When she died in that gas cloud or whatever, the superiors just resurrected her anew to continue with her predestinated purpose. It's a flick of a switch for them, but apparently a difficult concept for us to accept w/o a clear explanation. That death wasn't her ultimate purpose, but she just cannot resist chasing Scar to her death. It is an unavoidable inflection point in her timeline, but certainly not truly fatal (given that she can be resurrected on-the-fly, as it suits the superiors).

The Starbuck that was crashed on the surface of the nuclear-singed earth was the remnants of a Starbuck from a prior failed cycle.

The show ends on a high note in that we are shown that the playing out of the cycle we have just witnessed actually does make it to the dawn of a whole new era of prosperity (as opposed to the deadstop on Cylon Earth and subsequent necessary manual reboot of the whole thing).

Well that's my take on the whole thing. I'm rather satisfied with the ending and the series as a whole. I don't understand where the outrage comes from, but to each their own, imo.

I commend an "atheist" like the wise Moobius for nonetheless giving this series finale props for the way it went out.

I just like great storytelling. The use of "angels" and "god" stayed true to the series, and that's what's important. Had the series never mentioned any of it prior to the finale, I'd be just as irked as the others.

As an aside, I decided to google image "moob" right now. When I came up with the name, I was thinking of something completely different to what comes up on google. lol And in case you're wondering, what comes up are "man boobs." Not really what I had in mind. =\

And as another aside, it may be time to update your sig Hanky. :p You can get a 32GB flash drive for $40 - $50 now.

Edit:
It wasn't until the finale that we realize they were actually saving her. That was the payoff, even though it was somewhat weak.

You're right. The overall importance of, say, Roslin and Athena being in the opera house was diminished a bit, but for me it was the journey getting there. And seeing it actually work was just great to watch.

Things I liked about the BSG finale in no particular order

+ Tigh & Ellen at the strip club (we needed more of this earlier)
+ The Baltar-Six love story reconciliation
+ Baltar's redemption & realization that he'd opted to become his father
+ The music. Excellent!
+ Epic space battle (from someone not 'into' the space battle scene)
+ Centurion on Centurion conflict. Too funny!
+ Equivocating, vacillating bitch #8 geting hers
+ The Opera House imagery & theme
+ Chief's revenge for spacing Callie!
+ Sol & Ellen Tigh together
+ Finding THIS Earth and in the past
+ Scenery
+ Athena and Helo safe together with Hera
+ Clever use of Hera as mitochondrial Eve
+ Cute robot Epilog

You liked the robot epilogue? That's the one thing I didn't like. lol

Speaking of the music (Groucho touched on this in the Caprica thread)...maybe I just never paid attention before, but has there ever been another television show which incorporated music as well as BSG has into the show itself? But not only that, to have music that is above and beyond anything else you'll find on television (and often the big screen for that matter). I know we often disagree about the show, but is the awesomeness of the music one thing we can all agree on?

You liked the robot epilogue? That's the one thing I didn't like. lol

That just confused things further. It brought up more problems/questions than it solved, IMO.

That just confused things further. It brought up more problems/questions than it solved, IMO.

I thought it addressed the central question of the show. No matter what happens, we'll develop technology because we can. The cycle repeats because it's in our nature to build, create, explore. Lee Adama knew they needed to get rid of their technology if they were to live in peace with the indigenous tribes. But even he can't resist the temptation, as he finally reveals to Starbuck, to go out exploring now that a new challenge has been laid at his feet. The cycle goes on because it's inevitable. So much time has elapsed the warnings have been forgotten.

So, Head Six sees the news of robotic advances and talks about random chance being the only chance we have to avoid a similar calamity happening again. Because the knowledge of what has come before will invariably be completely lost or carried on only in vague religious prophecies, there's really no way to warn future technologists that they create artificially intelligent robots at their peril. I suspect this will be the key thematic thrust of 'Caprica'.

Well, yeah. I guess.

I just thought it brought up the angel/ demons question. I'm torn between the death and burial of Roslyn being the end or the 150,000 year future. I just don't know.

Will they do any alternate endings for the DVD? :D

I just thought it brought up the angel/ demons question. I'm torn between the death and burial of Roslyn being the end or the 150,000 year future. I just don't know.


I liked the 150,000 year jump along with the head-conversations. I just didn't like the very end with the robot montage. They could have cut it with Watchtower playing with the robot on the screen. I didn't need to actually see the robots the way we saw them. Way to in-your-face for my tastes.

I liked the 150,000 year jump along with the head-conversations. I just didn't like the very end with the robot montage. They could have cut it with Watchtower playing with the robot on the screen. I didn't need to actually see the robots the way we saw them. Way to in-your-face for my tastes.

ummmm! Agreed, moob.

What if they had shown humans polishing the robots shoes, oiling them, treating them specially, honoring them, etc....without being subserviant?

That would have truly been a "Planet Of The Apes" moment. :D

So much to consider.

OK. Just having fun. So shoot me!

And as another aside, it may be time to update your sig Hanky. You can get a 32GB flash drive for $40 - $50 now.

I've been meaning to address this matter to Herr Hanky for some time, myself, oh wise Moobius. In fact, I'm so sick and tired of 7,200 rpm hard drives that seem to want to "spool" for 5 minutes after boot-up doing "gawd-knows-what" with background programs that load after the system has booted up, but I seem to need for "this or that," that I'm planning on getting my next system built with a roughly 256 GB Flash HD as the boot drive, so even if it does have those "startup issues," they won't be "issues" any more... Not to mention how fast everything else will run...

Currently, those are running about $300, or so -- still way more than what you'd pay for a 7,200 RPM drive, but they're like 1,000 times faster. You can buy a 10,000 RPM or 15,000 RPM drive for roughly the same money, and get a lot less performance... Me, I'll likely get a boot drive and a second drive identical for storing big files I'm editing, like video or image files... No more hourglasses -- certainly not for hours, lol.
Jeff

I just didn't like the very end with the robot montage.

I didn't particularly care for it, either. Mainly because it appears to obfuscate and over-simplify the ending, to some. I haven't listened to the podcast, so I don't know RDM's reasoning behind it, but it seemed to be there just to show that we are going in the direction that Earth 1, Kobol, and the Colonies took. Too many saw it as an anti-tech warning of some kind.

Yeah buddy... we need to all "get Amish," lol... "That's the ticket!" Hey, I could go for that, as long as I could still have my computers... and my HDTV... and, well... No, I guess I couldn't, lol.

Perhaps a better ending would have been flash forward 150,000 years showing when SkyNet goes sentient.

Perhaps a better ending would have been flash forward 150,000 years showing when SkyNet goes sentient.

....or they get to Earth-2 and it is populated by the Borg.

I haven't listened to the podcast, so I don't know RDM's reasoning behind it, but it seemed to be there just to show that we are going in the direction that Earth 1, Kobol, and the Colonies took. Too many saw it as an anti-tech warning of some kind.

I haven't listened to it either, yet. I like to listen to them in order along with watching the respective episode, and I'm just halfway through "The Oath" so far.

I didn't see it as an anti-tech warning, just a fitting denouement to the story he was telling. The "moral", if there was any, is that we have to "evolve" far enough so that our morality and ethics can keep up with our technology. Lee spoke of that during that conversation in the meadow with his father ("our brains have always outraced our hearts", something like that). The hopeful hint was that maybe this time we might get it right, seeing as how the "only way out of here" was to compromise with the implacable enemy, which Lee recognized. He was always more interested in that sort of thing - politics, law - then with the military career he felt forced into. He was the conscious of the show, always the idealist, always striving to do the right thing. And then they released their Centurion allies, a gesture of faith that may pay dividends down the line.

So while the ending robot montage would seem to foretell the inevitable cycle gearing up to begin anew, the hope is that maybe this time our ethics will have caught up enough to prevent the cycle from repeating once again. But, that's another story.

....or they get to Earth-2 and it is populated by the Borg.

...or Tim Curry.

You liked the robot epilogue? That's the one thing I didn't like. lol

Speaking of the music (Groucho touched on this in the Caprica thread)...maybe I just never paid attention before, but has there ever been another television show which incorporated music as well as BSG has into the show itself? But not only that, to have music that is above and beyond anything else you'll find on television (and often the big screen for that matter). I know we often disagree about the show, but is the awesomeness of the music one thing we can all agree on?

I liked it too, but here's the thing. It would have worked much better if they cut to a commercial break or played the end credits, and booted it up as a true epilogue, after the credit roll.

Having it directly after Adama, and Hera's ending, seemed to cheapen it a tad, and was unfocused. Thinking along the lines of Pirates of the Caribbean, it should have been the last thing we saw after the credits. Not sure how plausible that is on TV.

As for the music, I'd have to agree. I'm actually listening to it now on my Ipod. It gets noticeably better in season 3, and season 4 was no exception.

Nothing really to add right now - except to also throw a shout out to Bear McReary and the unbelievable music this show has had.

And while I am shouting out, I should also toss one out to the special fx department. While the centurions didn't ALWAYS look as natural as they could have, the space battle scenes were incredible. Far and away the best fx you will find on television. The realism was just amazing. What I liked about them was the natural feel and the realistic way the spacecrafts moved. And their choice, in many cases, of showing a whole field, and zooming in on the subjects of interest gave many of the space scenes a great sense of scale. The first BSG episode I ever saw was the season 1 finale - I think Starbuck was heading back to caprica to get the arrow, Boomer was on her vision to drop the nuke in the basestar. The fx of those space scenes kept me watching. The story, while I had no idea what was going on, was phenomenal. I immediately went out and got the miniseries and season 1.

You know, about the vfx, what has really surprised me as the thread has been winding down these last couple of weeks is while we've had no end of interesting discussion about the plotline and "meaning of it all", and a few folks grumbling about how Ron Moore raped their adulthood (they haven't had this much fun since David Chase raped their adulthood last year), there has been barely any mention of that incredible bit of wiz-bang cgi action that took 8 months to create and edit, and which must have cost millions of NBCU's dollars. That was some amazing stuff, eh? Hand to hand centurion combat, dozens of missile strikes and explosions with dozens of ships flying around shooting at each other, and a whole buncha' breathless OMG's. :eek: :) :) :)

I would have at least expected that crowd who only seemed to appreciate an episode if it had lots of CGI fireworks in it to have mentioned how, at least in that respect, RDM gave 'em what they wanted in the end. Before he, you know, raped 'em. :p

You know, about the vfx, what has really surprised me as the thread has been winding down these last couple of weeks is while we've had no end of interesting discussion about the plotline and "meaning of it all", and a few folks grumbling about how Ron Moore raped their adulthood (they haven't had this much fun since David Chase raped their adulthood last year), there has been barely any mention of that incredible bit of wiz-bang cgi action that took 8 months to create and edit, and which must have cost millions of NBCU's dollars. That was some amazing stuff, eh? Hand to hand centurion combat, dozens of missile strikes and explosions with dozens of ships flying around shooting at each other, and a whole buncha' breathless OMG's. :eek: :) :) :)

I would have at least expected that crowd who only seemed to appreciate an episode if it had lots of CGI fireworks in it to have mentioned how, at least in that respect, RDM gave 'em what they wanted in the end. Before he, you know, raped 'em. :p

Don't forget all the while taking place in a swirling, jumbled asteroid debris field on the edge of a black holes event horizon.

I'm really hoping the extended cut of Daybreak Pt2 on bluray includes the stuff they had to cut for strictly time issues. Moore said they originally showed the colony being knocked out of orbit and falling towards the black hole; but cut it super short to free up time elsewhere, which ended up not coming across in the tv airing.

You really could tell they budgeted the entire season for the last hurrah; almost all the episodes were strictly character pieces, on Galactica. the usual's complained that they were just filler episodes :rolleyes: , but they worked, were interesting, and allowed for a bigger finale.


Not bad work for a 3rd rate cable tv budget.


edit, and to get back to the Music, check out Bear McCrearys blog if you haven't. The amount of work he's put into the score, and the insight he brings for what each episode was trying to achieve on the individual, and series scale is incredible.

makes you have a better appreciation for just how much work is really put into a series like this. Sometimes it's easy to play the back seat driver and say you could do better, but I'm under no false pretenses that I would have made better decisions.

http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/

You liked the robot epilogue? That's the one thing I didn't like. lol

LOL ... but moob, that was the only thing that was even remotely "original" about the finale. :D

Just some Finale Plot Points, If done well, That could lead to possible really good Movie(s):

A) - The Humans & Cylons left on Caprica/The colonies ,& what eventually happened to them.
B) - The Storyline of 21st Century earth finding the remains of a 150K yr old Scout ship ...
C) - The Centurions comming back, & what they have evolved into.

"B" could be the stepping stone into an entirely new series, & still leaves open the possibility to explore points "A" & "C" within the series ....

Just some Finale Plot Points, If done well, That could lead to possible really good Movie(s):

A) - The Humans & Cylons left on Caprica/The colonies ,& what eventually happened to them.
B) - The Storyline of 21st Century earth finding the remains of a 150K yr old Scout ship ...
C) - The Centurions comming back, & what they have evolved into.

"B" could be the stepping stone into an entirely new series, & still leaves open the possibility to explore points "A" & "C" within the series ....

You could even have some of the original cylons coming back, if someone were to develop resurrection technology that somehow captured the long lost downloads of some of them. What if the Final 3 alive at the end somehow managed to capture their downloads and these downloads were discovered by someone - an archeologist of some sort (with or without a whip! j/k). Perhaps the "relic" containing the downloads could even tell someone how to create resurrection, with details on how to create a new body for the consciousnesses to download into...

And....

Maybe the Colony survived the Black Hole and went backwards in time to Kobol.

That's one of the few chestnuts left that RM didn't use.....yet. ;)

Yeah buddy... we need to all "get Amish," lol... "That's the ticket!" Hey, I could go for that, as long as I could still have my computers... and my HDTV... and, well... No, I guess I couldn't, lol.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h238/icanseeyou2/weirdAlAmish.jpg
As I walk through the valley where I harvest my grain
I take a look at my wife and realize shes very plain
But thats just perfect for an amish like me
You know I shun fancy things like electricity
At 4:30 in the morning Im milkin cows
Jebediah feeds the chickens and jacob plows... fool
And Ive been milkin and plowin so long that
Even ezekiel thinks that my mind is gone
Im a man of the land, Im into discipline
Got a Bible in my hand and a beard on my chin
But if I finish all of my chores and you finish thine
Then tonight were gonna party like its 1699

We been spending most our lives
Living in an amish paradise
Ive churned butter once or twice
Living in an amish paradise
Its hard work and sacrifice
Living in an amish paradise
We sell quilts at a discount price
Living in an amish paradise

;)

I love it, WhiteStang!

Is that picture from a Mel Brooks movie, or something? And what about the poem?
Jeff

That's Weird Al, but I had never heard his Amish song. Hi-larious! Gotta' go find it on iTunes now...

Ahhhhhhh, the great Weird Al Yankovich!

I shoulda figured!

All we need now is a photochop of an Amish Baltar. OR, a redo of this painting with Baltar and Six.:cool:
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h238/icanseeyou2/farmer0kr7.jpg

^^^^^Hahahahahahaha!

ETA: But their sizes would have to be reversed.

Maybe this too? (Green Acres) ...incase some/all are too young.

http://i1.iofferphoto.com/img/item/399/784/76/o_Green-Acres-tv-02.jpg

*ask Jeff about Mr. Haney*. :D

Hay thats Arnold in the clouds. LOL that show was so funny, freaking off the wall, they painted the house and sealed the pores, the breathing sounds the house made sounded like asthma, they had to strip it off, or you couldn't sleep at night. The writers really were doing some crazy drugs in those days.

All we need now is a photochop of an Amish Baltar. OR, a redo of this painting with Baltar and Six.:cool:
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h238/icanseeyou2/farmer0kr7.jpg

Grant Wood not approve ;)

OMG! I can't believe it! It's been hiding in plain sight all along, in Grant Wood's famous painting!!!

Just look at the trees in the background... over the woman's head and the man's left shoulder -- don't look too closely, simply look at them and let your focus go soft and all will be revealed -- there's 150,000 years of history right there! Ron Moore didn't write any fiction. He channeled pre-history.

My God, I have goosebumps!

OMG! I can't believe it! It's been hiding in plain sight all along, in Grant Wood's famous painting!!!

Just look at the trees in the background... over the woman's head and the man's left shoulder -- don't look too closely, simply look at them and let your focus go soft and all will be revealed -- there's 150,000 years of history right there! Ron Moore didn't write any fiction. He channeled pre-history.

My God, I have goosebumps!

http://www.yoosave.com/nwimages/chia-puppy.jpg

:confused:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/rickmccamy/BaltarSixGothic.jpg



:eek:

Obama Depressed, Distant Since 'Battlestar Galactica' Series Finale (http://www.theonion.com/content/news/obama_depressed_distant_since?utm_source=a-section)

I laughed
I cried

"When we spoke last month, he said season three was his least favorite because some of the episodes with Helo and the Sagittarons—and pretty much anything that involved Cally—were boring and didn't advance the plot," Afghan president Hamid Karzai said. "But I told him that when you watch it all on DVD, and you don't have to wait a whole week for a new show, those peripheral episodes actually add new color to the already established world."
Added Karzai, " :D

May the gods bless you, Josh!

That's the biggest laughs I've had in quite a while... Possibly the best piece I've ever read at "The Onion!" I have to wonder what "Big-O" thinks about it. My guess is he's laughing harder than anyone.

Ooops! Gotta change the channel! O'Reilly's about to be on "Letterman!" Not sure I can stand the carnage as "Weapons of Mass Deconstruction" go off in NYC!
Jeff

Well, this thread appears to be "in a coma," so I thought I'd inject a little something...

Does anyone here watch the "trash TV" PsiPhi show on Cinemax "Forbidden Science?"

The most recent episode had what I consider an homage to the episode of BSG where Boomer "met" her sisters on the resurrection hub just before they blew it up... A character known as Bethany, who thought she was the ex-wife of a man on the show, discovered she was actually a very advanced android. To confirm this, she went to what she "remembered" as her former home with her ex-husband, walked inside, turned the corner past the foyer and was greeted by a bunch of "identical sisters" who greeted her (along with a whole bunch more glass enclosures where they were growing MORE of "her") and her "husband," who is a real person who founded the company she's been working for, thinking she was a real person... I'm certain that scene was BSG-inspired.

"Forbidden Science" isn't much as far as PsiPhi goes, but considering it also has some halfway decent sex scenes you'd never see on BSG, it's OK (cute female stars). Looks like no new episode this week. I hope it's not done... Was just getting "good," lol.
Jeff

The most recent episode had what I consider an homage to the episode of BSG where Boomer "met" her sisters on the resurrection hub just before they blew it up... A character known as Bethany, who thought she was the ex-wife of a man on the show, discovered she was actually a very advanced android. To confirm this, she went to what she "remembered" as her former home with her ex-husband, walked inside, turned the corner past the foyer and was greeted by a bunch of "identical sisters" who greeted her (along with a whole bunch more glass enclosures where they were growing MORE of "her") and her "husband," who is a real person who founded the company she's been working for, thinking she was a real person... I'm certain that scene was BSG-inspired.

Because BSG was the first story to introduce the idea of androids or clones?:rolleyes:

Because BSG was the first story to introduce the idea of androids or clones?:rolleyes:

Remember Harry Mudd from Star Trek :-) HARCOURT!

The Harry Mudd episode was one of the best, but NO, because of the way the episode ended... the way it was shot -- looked very much like when Boomer "met herself" in some respects (except it wasn't dark, and she walked to them, and they weren't all naked)... At any rate, it still felt like an homage to BSG to me. If you have Cinemax, look for the 3/27 episode and watch or DVR it and see for yourself.
Jeff

P.S. There's also some hot scenes in with the cutest gal on the show in that episode, Penny, played by Canadian Noelle DuBois. She's very "pixie-ish."

Is this 'Forbidden Science' a Cinemax original series? I didn't know they even had those. Haven't been a subscriber for several years now; figured if you had HBO you really don't need Cinemax since the theatrical movies that show up on one will eventually show up on the other.

Yep, Groucho. In fact it's one of several "original series" on Cinemax -- all of which are very sexually-themed late-night shows... Best reason to have Cinemax. The other two are called "Co-Ed Confidential" and I can't remember the name of the third... something to do with Cabo, but it's a sex resort where this couple hosts this swingers resort in Mexico where they play matchmakers. One of the stars of that show is the legendary porn star Chloe Nichole (sort of looking her age at this point, but still kinda hot).

The one that shows the most "skin" is probably "Co-Ed Confidential." It has a few real porn stars in it (young, current porn stars, who are doing this in addition to their regular work). Worth a peek at Cinemax if you can get a short-term trial deal.
Jeff

The Harry Mudd episode was one of the best, but NO, because of the way the episode ended... the way it was shot -- looked very much like when Boomer "met herself" in some respects (except it wasn't dark, and she walked to them, and they weren't all naked)... At any rate, it still felt like an homage to BSG to me. If you have Cinemax, look for the 3/27 episode and watch or DVR it and see for yourself.

Sooooo ... let me get this straight now .... You actually pay attention to the plot? :D

Uh, YEAH, I watch "Forbidden Science" both for the PsiPhi AND the hot, naked babes, lol. The PsiPhi element of the show is actually somewhat interesting, if rather thin --not that any of it's anything new -- I just hope they're "going somewhere" with it.
Jeff

Harcourt Fenton Mudd! Have you been drinking again?!
LOL

I've moved on to watching Babylon 5 again. A wonderful show IMO. I'm actually enjoying Season 1 even though I remember it as the weakest of the 5. Spotty SFX and some stiff dialogue to be sure. In the 2nd episode, the Soul Hunter that went off the reservation was played by William Gordon Sheppard. I got a laugh when I looked at his imdb page and saw he's the real-life father of Mark Sheppard, i.e. Romo Lampkin. Small world, even in Horrywood.

Harcourt Fenton Mudd! Have you been drinking again?!
LOL

I've moved on to watching Babylon 5 again. A wonderful show IMO. I'm actually enjoying Season 1 even though I remember it as the weakest of the 5. Spotty SFX and some stiff dialogue to be sure. In the 2nd episode, the Soul Hunter that went off the reservation was played by William Gordon Sheppard. I got a laugh when I looked at his imdb page and saw he's the real-life father of Mark Sheppard, i.e. Romo Lampkin. Small world, even in Horrywood.

I remember one of the Soul Hunters (I think, been awhile) was played by none other than Martin Sheen, future POTUS! How undignified for one who would later project such presidential dignity. :p Oh boy, did he chew some serious scenery in that one.

Guess I'm gonna have to find a free (or low-fee) source of "Babylon 5" and watch it. I've just seen way too many folks talk about how good it was to not take all that talk seriously.

When it was orginally on, the few times I happened to switch over there, I got turned off by all the strange-looking characters and costumes and what looked to me like really pompous, sort of over-the-top acting and people like Steven Furst coming off as pompous leaders dressed as weired aliens, etc. But considering all I've watched and "let go" since then, and all you folks have said about it in a good way, I'm willing to give it a go, for sure.
Jeff

I can't watch B5 today for a couple of reasons. One would be the fact that the special effects really don't hold up well. Video games today have better special effects.

And the other reason is that bald dude with the stupid hair (or dudes). Seriously. I can't watch that and not laugh my ass off. That's probably being childish, but it's distracting. Like you, aliens just don't do it for me anymore. They're not needed.

And in BSG news, final finale ratings: http://www.thefutoncritic.com/news.aspx?id=20090407scifi02

3.1 million with Live+7. O_o

Uh huh, Moobius... that's the very stuff that scared me off the first time... Then again similar stuff in the original "Star Wars" movies (like in the bar scene) alienated some friends of mine and turned them off to them, so I'm willing to give it another chance solely on story and I'll try to look past all that other "stuff 'n' junk," as hard as it may be.
Jeff

Guess I'm gonna have to find a free (or low-fee) source of "Babylon 5" and watch it. I've just seen way too many folks talk about how good it was to not take all that talk seriously.

When it was orginally on, the few times I happened to switch over there, I got turned off by all the strange-looking characters and costumes and what looked to me like really pompous, sort of over-the-top acting and people like Steven Furst coming off as pompous leaders dressed as weired aliens, etc. But considering all I've watched and "let go" since then, and all you folks have said about it in a good way, I'm willing to give it a go, for sure.
Jeff

2 words: local library

It's hard watching 6 discs in a week, though. Luckily ours lends multi-disc sets for 2 weeks.

If you give it a try, don't be put off by season 1. Especially the very 1st ep, which is some awful acting and dialogue. It gets a LOT better. The first 10 or so are almost all bottle episodes that build the characters' backgrounds and personalities. Seasons 2 through 4 are magnificent and 5's no slouch either.

I was as devoted then to B5 as I was more recently to BSG. There are very few shows where I will openly admit, "I love this show," and Babylon 5 is one of them. Even with S1's flaws, it's still very enjoyable for the most part. Not as "gritty" as BSG, but the writing is very good and the regular characters are believable and compelling. Like BSG they had a great ensemble cast.

I adore the Ambassador Londo Mollari character. At the end of one ep, a ship leaving for Earth gets blown out of the sky by another ship that appears out of nowhere. Londo exclaims, "Well, all's well that ends well!" Frakking hysterical, especially at the end of an episode about a notorious war criminal responsible for untold death and suffering. But it totally "fits" the moment.

I think you'll like it, Jeff.

I DO like dark and ironic humor -- love it, in fact. That's one of the best things about "Burn Notice," even though it's a "procedural," is that Michael usually sets up a con on the bad guys where they end up screwing themselves and sometimes the irony is just delicious.

-- WARNING -- LOST SPOILER COMING UP FOR ANYONE WHO HASN'T SEEN LAST WEEK'S EPISODE!

I've been sitting here for about 10 minutes trying to think of what show it was, just recently, where something like this was done so well that it cracked me up for like 10 minutes and I laughed every time I thought about it for a couple of days, but I can't recall what it was, now... Probably an episode of "Chuck," or "Reaper," or something, but it could have been one of the more serious shows, as I sometimes get a kick out of a really nasty irony, too, like when Ben woke up on the Island only to have a revived Locke standing over him. :eek:

Of course that's how the most recent episode of "Lost" ended, so we don't yet know where it goes from there, and with what Kate and "Sawyer" just did with the 12-year-old Ben, we have no way of knowing if they've changed the past, or that's how the present they experienced was created... I'm beginning to wonder if they didn't "meet themselves" in Season 2 or 3 -- 30-year-older versions of themselves.

I'll get around to Babylon 5 when I get caught up, ec. You can count on it.
Jeff

Don't know how many of you watch CSI:Vegas but last night's ep was hilarious. It involved a murder at a scifi convention that honored a show called Astro Quest (just like Star Trek). Plenty of geek humor in there for Trek fans.

But the best part was that they announced a decision to reboot the show MUCH darker and grittier. Sound familiar? The actor/producer screened a clip, which involved the hero trying to save the heroine (just like the original), except she gets killed. The hero starts crying....lights come up...crowd is silent. Then RON MOORE steps out of the crowd and shouts "YOU SUCK!". Boomer too! hilarious!

^ ....and Kate Vernon was there as well!

^ ....and Kate Vernon was there as well!

LOL that's right she was the media Dr. :-)

All around funny episode.

Torrie was in the crowd scene, too, down front, a few people over from Boomer.

The only one I noticed was Grace Park, but I was thinking I should have been DVRing that episode as soon as I noticed her in the crowd, as I immediately realized that was an "easter egg" episode. I TOTALLY MISSED that being Ron Moore who yelled "You suck!" Man, how could I miss that?!? Then again, I didn't catch that being him at the end of the original series until someone pointed it out and I went back and watched it on the DVR.

When and if CSI replays last night's episode I WILL record and save that one! Hodges, who has been one of my least favorite characters, suddenly became a very sympathetic character last night, lol.
Jeff

The only one I noticed was Grace Park, but I was thinking I should have been DVRing that episode as soon as I noticed her in the crowd, as I immediately realized that was an "easter egg" episode. I TOTALLY MISSED that being Ron Moore who yelled "You suck!" Man, how could I miss that?!? Then again, I didn't catch that being him at the end of the original series until someone pointed it out and I went back and watched it on the DVR.

When and if CSI replays last night's episode I WILL record and save that one! Hodges, who has been one of my least favorite characters, suddenly became a very sympathetic character last night, lol.
Jeff

Can't remember her name, but the female tech he is 'pseudo flirting' with has a SMOKING hot body. The lab coat hides her curves!

^ Wendy. And agree on the bod.

Thanks guys for screwing over us DVR folk who have not watched CSI yet by posting CSI spoilers in an unrelated thread

Thanks guys for screwing over us DVR folk who have not watched CSI yet by posting CSI spoilers in an unrelated thread


Philw,

If the episode has aired already it's not a spoiler. Unfortunately it happens to most of us that frequent this forum. It's not up to the forum to wait for you to catch up. That's how it was explained to me when I whined about a spoiler that I read while perusing the forum.

Philw,

If the episode has aired already it's not a spoiler. Unfortunately it happens to most of us that frequent this forum. It's not up to the forum to wait for you to catch up. That's how it was explained to me when I whined about a spoiler that I read while perusing the forum.

Thanks for your concern. I needed to post a smiley. I look fwd to watching CSI.

Thanks guys for screwing over us DVR folk who have not watched CSI yet by posting CSI spoilers in an unrelated thread

LOL we revealed nothing about the actual plot, just cameos. Sorry though, I hate it when that happens! How else to let the BSG crew know to watch the ep though?

LOL we revealed nothing about the actual plot, just cameos. Sorry though, I hate it when that happens! How else to let the BSG crew know to watch the ep though?

Yeah... NOW BSG fans just know to look for things those of us who watched it live and DIDN'T DVR it barely caught, or in some cases missed.

Count yourself lucky, Phil, since I missed just about everything everyone except Grace Park and Kate Vernon, and although I recognized Kate, I didn't actually put that together until I read it here, lol.
Jeff

Thanks guys for screwing over us DVR folk who have not watched CSI yet by posting CSI spoilers in an unrelated thread

What's the opposite of a spoiler? Meaning we wan't you to read this so you know to pay attention. I don't normally watch CSI and this caused to go watch it today on cbs.com.

Thank you all very much.

Exactly, Zalusky! Not only did the postings in here about CSI alert BSG fans who are also "CSI" fans who'd DVRd the show and not watched it yet of "easter eggs" to watch for in the show, BUT it also gave BSG fans who don't normally watch "CSI" a reason to watch this week's episode!

I'm with you on that. I'm a regular fan of "CSI," but if I weren't, yet being the fan of both "Star Trek" and "BSG" I am, found out this week's episode was like it is, would definitely want to be alerted about it so I could go to the CBS website and catch it online. This week's episode of "CSI" was like no other... It was in some ways comparable to the musical version of "Buffy: the Vampire Slayer."
Jeff

Exactly, Zalusky! Not only did the postings in here about CSI alert BSG fans who are also "CSI" fans who'd DVRd the show and not watched it yet of "easter eggs" to watch for in the show, BUT it also gave BSG fans who don't normally watch "CSI" a reason to watch this week's episode!

I'm with you on that. I'm a regular fan of "CSI," but if I weren't, yet being the fan of both "Star Trek" and "BSG" I am, found out this week's episode was like it is, would definitely want to be alerted about it so I could go to the CBS website and catch it online. This week's episode of "CSI" was like no other... It was in some ways comparable to the musical version of "Buffy: the Vampire Slayer."
Jeff

Honestly...I didn't think CSI had it in them to do something like that. I was impressed.

Ok, BSG to BluRay appears confirmed:

LINK (http://www.thehdroom.com/news/Caprica_DVD_Confirms_Blu-ray_Battlestar_Galactica_Complete_Series/4575)

Ok, BSG to BluRay appears confirmed:

LINK (http://www.thehdroom.com/news/Caprica_DVD_Confirms_Blu-ray_Battlestar_Galactica_Complete_Series/4575)

I'm getting in line now!

LOL we revealed nothing about the actual plot, just cameos. Sorry though, I hate it when that happens! How else to let the BSG crew know to watch the ep though?

Just watched the episode. Not quite up to 'Galaxy Quest' standards but a top notch, fun CSI episode. Reminds me why as a young guy I really enjoyed those early Star Trek space babe episodes.

Just watched the episode. Not quite up to 'Galaxy Quest' standards but a top notch, fun CSI episode. Reminds me why as a young guy I really enjoyed those early Star Trek space babe episodes.

LOL especially the slave gladiator ep... :-)

Philw,

If the episode has aired already it's not a spoiler. Unfortunately it happens to most of us that frequent this forum. It's not up to the forum to wait for you to catch up. agree 100%

agree 100%

I can understand the OP's point though. This is the BSG thread, not CSI. It's certainly reasonable to expect to come in here and not get spoilers about another show.

However, I limited the info to just the BSG connection, and left the best parts of the ep out.

Again, apologies if I disappointed anyone, but I felt the BSGers should know about it. When will we ever see this guys in a TV show together again?

I can understand the OP's point though. This is the BSG thread, not CSI. It's certainly reasonable to expect to come in here and not get spoilers about another show.
However, I limited the info to just the BSG connection, and left the best parts of the ep out.

Again, apologies if I disappointed anyone, but I felt the BSGers should know about it. When will we ever see this guys in a TV show together again?

Once again, I was JOKING about spoiler aspects (see past post)

Once again, I was JOKING about spoiler aspects (see past post)

Too late. You are doomed to be thought a cranky old crank. If possible, go back and fill your original post with smiley faces, dozens of them. But only smiling or grinning ones. No guarantee, however.

$249.95 for Series BD Box Set. Not bad at all. Already have mine Pre-ordered. $350.00 is the list Price.

Spoilers are the networks way of getting back at people for the DVR. :D

Spoilers are the networks way of getting back at people for the DVR. :D

I know you're just joking, dcowboy... for one thing, since all three major networks are now part of major conglomerates, even if they lose spot ad dollars to DVRs, their parent companies are usually getting something out of the purchase and use of those DVRs.

GE owns RCA, which owns NBC

Viacom owns CBS, and Viacom is part of a conglomerate I'm certain is tied in with all sorts of manufacturers.

Disney owns ABC, and we all know Disney has tentacles everywhere, lol.

They'll "get us" no matter what we do, lol. But the actual broadcast network divisions of television may well be very close to major paradigm shifts if current trends continue... The DTV transition could add to that (as I'm certain many of them fear), as there are still roughly 3.5 million American homes unprepared for the shift (a small number, to be sure, but who knows what will happen to that couple of percent of the viewing audience?) Those people are doubtless antenna-only viewers, at present. Will they add digital converter boxes, buy digital TVs, or switch to cable or satellite, thus further diluting the broadcast TV audience?

It matters to most of US only insomuch as how it will impact major network TV shows we like... My thinking is that going forward, the budgets for new shows won't be as big as they have been in the past... The ad dollars just won't be there.
Jeff

From Fredfa's "Hot Off The Press" thread at the top of the 'HDTV Programming' thread:

TV-on-DVD Notes
'Battlestar' heads to Blu-ray; final-season release date
From James Hibberd's Hollywood Reporter 'Live Feed' Blog - April 20, 2009

NBC Universal isn't wasting any time taking its recently concluded Sci Fi Channel hit Battlestar Galatica to the next level in home video.

The company plans to release the show's final season on DVD July 28, as well the entire series in a new compilation set -- plus the series will be made available in the high-def Blu-ray format for the first time.

The final season, "4.5" -- essentially the last run of episodes from earlier this year -- includes 13 hours of extras such as three extended episodes that never aired on television, behind-the-scenes featurettes and audio commentaries by producers Ronald D. Moore and David Eick.

All four seasons will be available in both formats, with 20 discs for the Blu-ray version and 25 for standard DVD.

Battlestar DVDs have been significant revenue generator for the company, with Sci Fi Channel splitting show's seasons into halves and releasing them separately on home video, plus putting the stand-alone movie Razor onto DVD right after its premiere. The two-hour pilot for Battlestar spinoff Caprica even comes out on DVD Tuesday -- well before its scheduled 2010 premiere on the network.

Though the miniseries that launched Battlestar was shot on 35 mm film, the rest of the series was on HD video. Some seasons were previously released on the Universal-backed HD DVD format.

Complete list of extras below.

EXCLUSIVE TO Blu-rayTM Hi-Def:

U-CONTROL: Universal’s exclusive signature feature puts viewers one click away from going deeper into the making of the film without ever leaving the movie.

THE ORACLE: An interactive guide including ships and characters.

BATTLESTAR ACTUAL: A glossary of all the unique Battlestar Galactica terms.

WHAT THE FRAK HAPPENED TO YOU? Explore the history and connections of your favorite characters through video clips and relevant facts.

BD-LIVE™: Access the BD-Live™ Center through your Internet-connected player to get even more content, watch the latest trailers and more!

BATTLESTAR GALACTICA ULTIMATE BATTLE: Players can battle their friends as Colonials or Cylons using strategy and luck to achieve victory.

MY SCENES: Pick your favorite scenes from the film to create your own video montage.

THE MUSICIANS BEHIND DAYBREAK: Composer Bear McCreary interviews and explains how many unique musicians have contributed the show and specifically the series finale, Daybreak.

BONUS FEATURES (BLU-RAY™ HI-DEF and DVD):

EVOLUTION OF A CUE: Composer Bear McCreary takes us step by step through his process of creating the music of Battlestar Galactica.

What the Frak Is Going On With Battlestar Galactica?: A recap of Battlestar Galactica’s first three thrilling seasons – in only eight minutes!

…AND THEY HAVE A PLAN: What do they mean every episode when the opening sequence on the Cylons states “And They Have a Plan"? All will be revealed in the upcoming movie The Plan.

THE JOURNEY ENDS: THE ARRIVAL: Battlestar Galactica has traveled full circle. The journey has concluded never to be revisited. But how did we arrive at the end?

A LOOK BACK

SO SAY WE ALL: Executive producer Ron Moore and the cast and crew reveal their personal insights on Battlestar Galactica.

MANIFESTO DESTINY: It all began with this manifesto. Why was it written and what was the response?

BATTLE-STYLE GALACTICA: Those behind the camera delve into their approach to visual style of Battlestar Galactica.

MARTYR TO A CAUSE: As the only actor to appear in both the original and reimagined series, Richard Hatch offers his unique perspective on Battlestar Galactica.

THE SINS OF THE FORGIVEN: Insights on the curious religious aspects of Battlestar Galactica.

BATTLESTAR REVELATIONS: Firsthand accounts from those on the Battlestar for the past five years.

AUDIO COMMENTARIES BY RONALD D. MOORE, DAVID EICK AND EDWARD JAMES OLMOS

Ronald D. Moore’s Podcast Commentaries
David Eick’s Video Blogs

DELETED SCENES

http://www.thrfeed.com/2009/04/battlestar-heading-to-blu-ray.html

So who all is dropping the $250 on the BR? And do you already own the DVDs? I don't think I can stomach dropping that much on the BRs that I might watch ONCE considering I already have the DVDs...I'll definitely be buying Season 4.5 though...

Not me....The digitalbits reviewed it & said the picture quality is really good but still obviously grainy. To me a big reason for blu-ray is to have a "pristine" picture so to me that kills it.

I did, but I don't own it on DVD, just season 1 on HD DVD, which I bought when it was $10.

I've already got the Blu-Rays pre-ordered. I'll definitely watch more than once and I want the best possible quality picture of my favorite series ever.

And yeah, I have all the DVDs already.

Not me....The digitalbits reviewed it & said the picture quality is really good but still obviously grainy. To me a big reason for blu-ray is to have a "pristine" picture so to me that kills it.

As was discussed during the HD DVD release, that grain is there on purpose. There will never be a "pristine" BSG release.

As was discussed during the HD DVD release, that grain is there on purpose. There will never be a "pristine" BSG release.

yes thats why i wont be getting it....the "artsy" director cost himself a sale.*

* i wouldnt get it anyway. :D

Already have it on pre order.

From what I have heard from one of the editers, multiple episodes will have there deleted scenes restored into the episode, as long as post work was already completed before they were cut.

So Say we All! Best $250.00 I have spent yet. It should play great on my new Samsung BD3600.

Not me....The digitalbits reviewed it & said the picture quality is really good but still obviously grainy. To me a big reason for blu-ray is to have a "pristine" picture so to me that kills it.

Where's the review?

I'll definitely be getting it on Blu, but I may wait to see if Fry's offers a better price (they usually do), or if Best Buy offers some special deal (they usually do as well).

I do own the DVDs, but they can easily be thrown onto ebay.

I still don't see how it could be the "complete" series without The Plan though.

Where's the review?

they dont put it on their site until around the actual release date, it was just something i saw them post on a site talking about it.

they dont put it on their site until around the actual release date, it was just something i saw them post on a site talking about it.

So they already have the Blu set? 3 months prior to release?

$250 to pre-order a box set with a "list price" of $350? Something tells me that by the fall it'll be available for $200, and in a year or two you'll be able to get it new for $100, or so... That's probably when I'll pick mine up, lol.

Patience is a virtue -- especially for poor folks, like me, lol.

Still I bet it's gonna be awesome. Those of you who spend the $$$ to get it ASAP, enjoy it!
Jeff

Not to get too far off topic, but I was wondering if anyone has watched the DVD of Caprica yet? I just got it. I admit the trailers weren't doing it for me, but after watching the show I thought it was pretty good. Though, when it airs, I am assuming the will need to cut out a few scenes (lots of bare breasts in the first 1/2 hour, which was nice)
It seems to have a different feel to it, and Joseph Adama's character is coming across as someone completely the opposite of how I pictured him based on Lee and Romo's recollections. I also found it weird that grown up Bill wouldn't have had more of a hatred towards Baltar's one God cult, when a similar one was responsible for his mother and sisters demise (that isn't a spoiler, it happens right in the begining)

I just finished watching it, and enjoyed it more then I thought I would.

Yeah they will have to edit the first 15 minutes down to get it on Sci Fi.

OK, well I was gunna wait until it came on Sci-Fi and save the cost of the DVD... but since it has bare boobies on it, maybe not ;) Any particularly well-known boobies involved? :D

Then again, I may be able to buy the downloadable version from Amazon for less... I'll look into it before I purchase the plastic... It's just soooo hot to combine sci-fi with nudity, and we don't get enough of that ("Forbidden Science" aside, as it's made mostly FOR the nudity, I think, lol).

At any rate, it also sounds like the actual STORY might be worth watching, so maybe buying it for that reason, too, will play a part in my purchase (boobies, in a vaccuum, can get old quickly -- not to mention that they tend to explode and deform under such conditions -- especially if they've been enhanced with silicone or salt-water packs) :p

Yeah, I know, I'm the BIGGEST BOOB here, and NOBODY wants to look at ME! :eek:
Jeff

OK, well I was gunna wait until it came on Sci-Fi and save the cost of the DVD... but since it has bare boobies on it, maybe not ;) Any particularly well-known boobies involved? :D

Really just extras, but some where very nice. Some good Girl on Girl action too ... if that's your thing :)


At any rate, it also sounds like the actual STORY might be worth watching, so maybe buying it for that reason, too, will play a part in my purchase (boobies, in a vaccuum, can get old quickly -- not to mention that they tend to explode and deform under such conditions -- especially if they've been enhanced with silicone or salt-water packs) :p


So far there is no actual space travel, so no problems with Vacuums.

Though I do think the Zoe chick is pretty hot, but I am not sure if she is actually cast for the long haul

OK, well I was gunna wait until it came on Sci-Fi and save the cost of the DVD... but since it has bare boobies on it, maybe not ;) Any particularly well-known boobies involved? :D

Then again, I may be able to buy the downloadable version from Amazon for less... I'll look into it before I purchase the plastic... It's just soooo hot to combine sci-fi with nudity, and we don't get enough of that ("Forbidden Science" aside, as it's made mostly FOR the nudity, I think, lol).

At any rate, it also sounds like the actual STORY might be worth watching, so maybe buying it for that reason, too, will play a part in my purchase (boobies, in a vaccuum, can get old quickly -- not to mention that they tend to explode and deform under such conditions -- especially if they've been enhanced with silicone or salt-water packs) :p

Yeah, I know, I'm the BIGGEST BOOB here, and NOBODY wants to look at ME! :eek:
Jeff

you can download it from the playstation store for $2.99 in HD...I don't know if that version has the boobies or not :)

Not to get too far off topic, but I was wondering if anyone has watched the DVD of Caprica yet? I just got it. I admit the trailers weren't doing it for me, but after watching the show I thought it was pretty good. Though, when it airs, I am assuming the will need to cut out a few scenes (lots of bare breasts in the first 1/2 hour, which was nice)
It seems to have a different feel to it, and Joseph Adama's character is coming across as someone completely the opposite of how I pictured him based on Lee and Romo's recollections. I also found it weird that grown up Bill wouldn't have had more of a hatred towards Baltar's one God cult, when a similar one was responsible for his mother and sisters demise (that isn't a spoiler, it happens right in the begining)

You might want to review what constitutes a spoiler... Although, perhaps it isn't a spoiler for another reason? What is the spoiler rules for something that is out on video but hasn't been broadcast yet?

VERY COOL !! pics of the packaging for the blu-ray complete series box set:

http://thedigitalbits.com/#bsgbdbox

What is the spoiler rules for something that is out on video but hasn't been broadcast yet?
I don't know, but considering the show isn't going to air until 2010, it would be pretty annoying to have to spoiler-tag everything related to the pilot until then.

VERY COOL !! pics of the packaging for the blu-ray complete series box set:

http://thedigitalbits.com/#bsgbdbox

Eww. I'm one of those people who hates these kinds of custom-DVD sets. I just want all my DVDs/Blu/whatever to be uniform, and that'll stick out like a sore thumb.

Well, Airboss opened a Caprica DVD thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16314384#post16314384) in the DVD movie Forum.

Maybe that can be the "spoilers allowed" discussion for this.

I just went to Amazon.com to see what kind of prices they had there (since I was able to download Razor for about $4 from their website)... Curiously, some of their complete seasons are actually more expensive if you download them than if you buy the DVD set, while some are marginally less expensive -- not really enough to make the case for doing the download... Same with "Caprica," which is $17.49 there if you buy the DVD, and $3 less for the download.

Oh, by the way, you can save an extra $5 off the previously quoted price above by pre-ordering your Blu-Ray complete set from Amazon. Their quote is $244.99, with free shipping... I couldn't tell if there was an HD version of "Caprica" available, but there didn't appear to be one. "Caprica" is listed as "Not Rated."
Jeff

Fox dumping Ronald Moore's 'VIRTUALITY' pilot on July 4th: http://www.thefutoncritic.com/news.aspx?id=8081. :(

Fox dumping Ronald Moore's 'VIRTUALITY' pilot on July 4th: http://www.thefutoncritic.com/news.aspx?id=8081. :(

Maybe it's just an attempt to gauge interest, but that really is the absolute worst day possible. July 4th is bad enough...but July 4th is on a Saturday too? Wowsers.

It's a dump job, plain and simple. If Fox were even remotely interested in getting this pilot sampled they'd schedule it on a weekday after a "Bones"/"House" repeat or a new episode of Gordon Ramsey's cooking reality show (you know, shows people actually watch) to get people to stay tuned. On a Saturday night that is also a holiday "Virtuality" is all but assured to score record-low viewership.

It's a dump job, plain and simple. If Fox were even remotely interested in getting this pilot sampled they'd schedule it on a weekday after a "Bones"/"House" repeat or a new episode of Gordon Ramsey's cooking reality show (you know, shows people actually watch) to get people to stay tuned. On a Saturday night that is also a holiday "Virtuality" is all but assured to score record-low viewership.

Who knows? If their schedule is slow, or somebody feels guilty or something, they may replay it at a decent time the following week.

That's how I originally became a fan of "Alias" on ABC. The original 2-hour pilot ran on a night I was watching something else on another network... THEN they re-ran it again a couple days later immediately after another show I was watching, and it just so happened that it took the spot of another show that HAD BEEN on ABC in that same time slot and they had just cancelled, so I was already used to watching ABC that date and time, and I just left it there (I also happened to be a bit, ahem, "toked up" at the time... don't really do that these days, but I was then), and it just BLEW me away, lol.

I was hooked from that point forward.

We can hope "Virtuality" will get similar treatment. I'll watch it, either way, as July 4 has come to mean increasingly less to me as far as a night to "do things" or watch some city's fireworks celebration -- although I generally have been because there was nothing NEW on TV... Since there will be now, I'LL BE THERE!
Jeff

Not to get too far off topic, but since this is essentially a sort of "dead thread" for the time being (or maybe it's just "in biostasis" Maybe it's a "Life on Mars" thread, lol) I thought I'd bring up something that was mentioned in this thread before, since I did just did a search for it, and found more references in the BSG thread than anywhere else.

A while back, someone posted that the PsiPhi Channel is going to bring back RiverWorld this summer. I thought I'd see if there were a thread for that, yet (since I discovered when I looked for one for "Dollhouse" after about the third episode that one had been in existence since Halloween 2007, lol!), but no such dice, even though "Riverworld" is supposed to be here this summer or in the fall, I think.

Anybody know anything more about it, or have any links? I never have any luck when I do websearches for the Sci-Fi/SyFy/PsiPhi Channel... usually end up on some website trying to sell me science fiction comic books or something, lol.

Thanks if you have something to offer... If you don't, may the Centurions blast you to oblivion! :p
Jeff

Katie Sackhoff joins "24" for it's 2010 season: http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2009/06/exclusive-katee.html. Also, RDM's "Virtuality" pilot will now air Saturday June 26th on Fox, a week ahead of its original July 4th date: http://www.tvweek.com/blogs/tvbizwire/2009/06/fox-moves-virtuality-up-a-week.php.

She's in a relationship with fellow agent Davis Cole (played by the just-cast Freddie Prinze. Jr.)

Wtf? Why?

Here's to hoping he dies in the first hour.

Did anyone in LA go to the event they had last week? I completely forgot about it until after the fact...even though they were running ads for it in the LA Times. =\ Gods my memory sucks.

By the way, here's a fanvid I made a while ago but barely uploaded: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrT2bjvyk5E&fmt=22

Any feedback would be appreciated. ;)

Not bad and even 720p, to boot; 4 out of 5 stars!

[i]
By the way, here's a fanvid I made a while ago but barely uploaded: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrT2bjvyk5E&fmt=22

Any feedback would be appreciated. ;)

Great stuff....love that it's HD.

Thanks guys. I wanted to add some 4.5 stuff in there, but it would have had the SciFi logo, which would have stood out too much for my tastes. I'll wait for the complete set before I make another one.

Speaking of which, turns out the Complete Set isn't so "complete" after all: http://themovierambler.blogspot.com/2009/05/bsg-complete-series-not-so-complete.html

I know last time they had some legal issues including the Resistance webisodes, but I think the Gaeta webisodes are a lot more important and really should be included. Hopefully they at least find a way to put them on The Plan when that's released.

Thanks guys. I wanted to add some 4.5 stuff in there, but it would have had the SciFi logo, which would have stood out too much for my tastes. I'll wait for the complete set before I make another one.

Speaking of which, turns out the Complete Set isn't so "complete" after all: http://themovierambler.blogspot.com/2009/05/bsg-complete-series-not-so-complete.html

I know last time they had some legal issues including the Resistance webisodes, but I think the Gaeta webisodes are a lot more important and really should be included. Hopefully they at least find a way to put them on The Plan when that's released.

And this is one of the main reasons why I don't like shows using stuff like webisodes to deliver plot-relevant information. If you want to rewatch the series, and still get all of the necessary information, you have to track down webisodes now.

I watched BSG when it aired, but only followed it on TV. I missed the Gaeta websidoes. So when they started referring to stuff he did during the resistance, I was waiting for a flashback that never showed up.

Just to be clear, I don't mind supplementary information being delivered like this. Lost does this a lot, where it uses ARG's to reveal information that obsessed viewers are interested in, but are not really critical to the main plot of the show.

Just to be clear, I don't mind supplementary information being delivered like this. Lost does this a lot, where it uses ARG's to reveal information that obsessed viewers are interested in, but are not really critical to the main plot of the show.

I'm not a fan of including critical information in webisodes either, which is why I was okay if the Resistance episodes didn't make the cut (Duck's story wasn't that important). But like you said, these Gaeta webisodes are pretty important in terms of explaining his actions in the mutiny, and they answer a question that was lingering for a while (Why Gaeta stabbed Baltar). I'm still hoping they find a way to work it out.

Though I'm not with you on Lost. After the insane importance the numbers played on that show, I barely found out like last month what they meant. Apparently they explained what they meant in a webisode or DVD special or something...but whatever it was, it wasn't on the show itself. That's an even greater frak up than the Gaeta webisodes.

^ I'm in the "you can't call it complete unless it is camp". If showrunners insist on making webisodes canon, then everything must be included.

As for the practice of webisodes actually being canon, I hate the concept. When something happens in those that causes gaps in understanding in the main show, that is a disservice to the viewers. Not everybody has the time or patience to jump online and keep up with these things.

Although I have now gotten into the practice of viewing webisodes, for the most part I find them tedious to sit through in order to get the "required" information.

Katie Sackhoff joins "24" for it's 2010 season: http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2009/06/exclusive-katee.html. Also, RDM's "Virtuality" pilot will now air Saturday June 26th on Fox, a week ahead of its original July 4th date: http://www.tvweek.com/blogs/tvbizwire/2009/06/fox-moves-virtuality-up-a-week.php.

June 26 2009 is on a Friday.

Though I'm not with you on Lost. After the insane importance the numbers played on that show, I barely found out like last month what they meant. Apparently they explained what they meant in a webisode or DVD special or something...but whatever it was, it wasn't on the show itself. That's an even greater frak up than the Gaeta webisodes.

I kind of agree. The numbers, while they seem really important, were never really more than a MacGuffin. Gaeta's background, on the other hand, provided the motivation for why he stabbed Baltar and acted the way he did during the mutiny. Those actions flat-out didn't make sense having not seen the webisodes.

I think the best example of supplemental material that isn't necessary would be the mobisodes that Lost did last year. They were fun character-driven pieces, but played no role at all in the understanding of the rest of the show (save for maybe the final one).

^ I'm in the "you can't call it complete unless it is camp". If showrunners insist on making webisodes canon, then everything must be included.

As for the practice of webisodes actually being canon, I hate the concept. When something happens in those that causes gaps in understanding in the main show, that is a disservice to the viewers. Not everybody has the time or patience to jump online and keep up with these things.

Although I have now gotten into the practice of viewing webisodes, for the most part I find them tedious to sit through in order to get the "required" information.
Agree on both accounts. I didn't think we'd see a complete BSG set until after The Plan was released...how could it be complete without the final movie? And now without the webisodes, it's even less complete.

I kind of agree. The numbers, while they seem really important, were never really more than a MacGuffin. Gaeta's background, on the other hand, provided the motivation for why he stabbed Baltar and acted the way he did during the mutiny. Those actions flat-out didn't make sense having not seen the webisodes.
You're absolutely right. Looking back, the numbers really weren't that important after all. But after so much time spent on them, even if they weren't important, it would have been nice to explain them within the show itself.

Agree on both accounts. I didn't think we'd see a complete BSG set until after The Plan was released...how could it be complete without the final movie? And now without the webisodes, it's even less complete.


Because we're going to see another "all inclusive DVD/BD set someday that does include everything, silly. ;)

Double-dipping ain't dead just because the show is. The BSG producers/Sci-Fi Network have been notorious about milking everything they can from this seminal series, what with all the half-season sets and stand-alone miniseries and 'Razor' sets nearly doubling typical TV box set revenue. Surely they're well aware of how important the "Face of the Enemy" webisodes were to the overall mini-arc of the mutiny, and there's absolutely no reason to leave them out now unless they were planning to include them later, along with "The Plan".

The problem, for me anyway, is while I'm reasonably sure what they're going to do based on past behavior, I can't be absolutely certain (and they're sure not going to tell us until they spring it on us). So, do I buy now or later? What they're betting on is that a lot of us will buy now and later. Us hard core fans exist to be abused. :o

You're absolutely right. Looking back, the numbers really weren't that important after all. But after so much time spent on them, even if they weren't important, it would have been nice to explain them within the show itself.

While that's probably true, there may be more to the LOST magic numbers than have met the eye so far. They still have 17 more hours to do more with them, after all (or at least work "The Vanzetti Equation", or whatever it was, into the plotline).

Just finished watching the series, beginning to end, in about a month.

Perhaps the best show ever on television. Absolutely astounding, end to end.

Shameless Plug!:)

My best friend did the the We Were Centurions (http://www.mediumedge.com/wwc/index.html) animation short last year. Someone contacted him about doing a figurine and now they are out. Yes, they are kind of expensive, but my friend isn't going to see much of the money. Apparently, most of the money goes to licensing the product. He just thought it would be cool to have his own figurine.

Shameless Plug!:)

My best friend did the the We Were Centurions (http://www.mediumedge.com/wwc/index.html) animation short last year. Someone contacted him about doing a figurine and now they are out. Yes, they are kind of expensive, but my friend isn't going to see much of the money. Apparently, most of the money goes to licensing the product. He just thought it would be cool to have his own figurine.

Shameless plug or not, thanks for the link. That's one clever animation.

Shameless plug or not, thanks for the link. That's one clever animation.

Agreed.

Shameless Plug!:)

My best friend did the the We Were Centurions (http://www.mediumedge.com/wwc/index.html) animation short last year. Someone contacted him about doing a figurine and now they are out. Yes, they are kind of expensive, but my friend isn't going to see much of the money. Apparently, most of the money goes to licensing the product. He just thought it would be cool to have his own figurine.

Hah, that really was pretty good.

Shameless Plug!:)

My best friend did the the We Were Centurions (http://www.mediumedge.com/wwc/index.html) animation short last year. Someone contacted him about doing a figurine and now they are out. Yes, they are kind of expensive, but my friend isn't going to see much of the money. Apparently, most of the money goes to licensing the product. He just thought it would be cool to have his own figurine.


Way cool. I'm still laughing.

I wonder what would happen if that bunch of Toasters that left Earth were to run into group of the Transformers -- might make an interesting crossover movie in a few years. Certainly can't be any worse an idea than Freddy vs Jason or Alien Vs Predator.

Way cool. I'm still laughing.

I wonder what would happen if that bunch of Toasters that left Earth were to run into group of the Transformers -- might make an interesting crossover movie in a few years. Certainly can't be any worse an idea than Freddy vs Jason or Alien Vs Predator.

They'd lose their hard earned freedom and get real good working with Turtle Wax and a chamois.

They'd lose their hard earned freedom and get real good working with Turtle Wax and a chamois.

LOL yeah the transformers would put a hurting in them toasters, they should just keep going and never come back.


Since the thread has come to life again, I must say I really miss the show, I have the whole last season in HD dvr, along with some select episodes like 33 and Kobals last gleaming, I may need to re watch some more, funny thing is I have no desire to watch the last eps only the stuff in between, like Baltar being propped up by head Six for a bigger beating.

If they met up with WALL-E they could do some mean clean up... ;)

hee hee hee...that is funny.

No problem.

True story. The owner of the last place my friend was working at wanted to do a series based on this. My friend thought it would be cool as he has more ideas to play with. Of course, it went no where. The owner thought my friend and a small crew could crank out an episode a day.:rolleyes:

One cool thing is that the guy who did the audio, Michael Huang, is considered pretty good. The neat thing is that anyone can hire him and he is inexpensive. I had to laugh when he told me how much he charged him for both this piece and his game.

One final thing, my friend and his wife (Sandra Chang (www.sandrachang.net)) will be at the San Diego comiccon. If anyone wants to go by and ask him questions or just chat, then feel free.

Oh wait, one more thing.:) If anyone is interested in learning or pursuing a career in animation, then check out Animation Mentor. My friend went there this past year to refine his skills and said it was definitely beneficial.

Awesomeness; even has that "handheld" look of BSG. Is it shaded-2D? Very impressive, whatever it is. And an episode a day? Really?

Received an email from Amazon this morning for complete BSG in Blu-Ray. $219.99 with free shipping:
http://rover.ebay.com/ar/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?mpt=691168627&adtype=1&size=1x1&type=3&campid=5336055023&toolid=10001 http://www.amazon.com/Battlestar-Galactica-Edward-James-Olmos/dp/B001993Y2C/ref=pe_20890_12481500_fe_img_1/ (http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FBattlestar-Galactica-Edward-James-Olmos%2Fdp%2FB001993Y2C%2Fref%3Dpe_20890_12481500_fe_img_1%2 F&tag=5336055023-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325)

Received an email from Amazon this morning for complete BSG in Blu-Ray. $219.99 with free shipping:

Pass ... but maybe when it gets to the cut-out bin, I'll consider it.

Price isn't the issue. I think I'm going to wait for the really complete version with 'The Plan' and the 'Face of the Enemy' webisodes included (it has to be in the works, right?). It's kind of silly to call this release a "complete" set when it's lacking two key ingredients for appreciating the series in its totality.

Price isn't the issue. I think I'm going to wait for the really complete version with 'The Plan' and the 'Face of the Enemy' webisodes included (it has to be in the works, right?). It's kind of silly to call this release a "complete" set when it's lacking two key ingredients for appreciating the series in its totality.

LOL ... Well, I think I've gotten about as much out of the series as I ever will. I'm still trying to decide if I want to watch the finale a second time, or just go ahead flush it from the DVR.

LOL ... Well, I think I've gotten about as much out of the series as I ever will. I'm still trying to decide if I want to watch the finale a second time, or just go ahead flush it from the DVR.

Same boat.

Haven't watched it again yet, but can't bring myself to delete it.

Same boat.

Haven't watched it again yet, but can't bring myself to delete it.

I've watched it a few more times since, and have enjoyed it each time. Whether you're in the camp of "Ron Moore raped my adulthood with this mystical crap!", or the camp of "Hmmm. Interesting, and I can see now he was going there all along.", there's no denying the power of some of those final scenes. When they see the proto-humans for the first time, when Starbuck realizes her job is done and simply vanishes, and when the camera rises over a grieving, worn-out Bill Adama sitting alone on that hilltop, with Bear McCready's amazing full-orchestral score rising to a crescendo right along with it, and then the cut to... 150,000 years later (talk about a flash forward!), I still get goosebumps. Hell, I'm getting 'em now just writing about it. :p

Above all, I bow before this show's ability to shamelessly manipulate my emotions like few others. Powerful, powerful stuff. That episode at least, along with a few others like "Exodus pt 2", will be staying on my DVR until I can get a "complete" blu-ray set. We shan't be seeing its like again anytime soon.

^ Probably not, but after getting the DVD of Caprica, I have higher hopes for that series than I did before.

Awesomeness; even has that "handheld" look of BSG. Is it shaded-2D? Very impressive, whatever it is. And an episode a day? Really?

I couldn't tell you. You could ask him on youtube, as he occasionally checks the comments.

I don't think it was that bad, but I think he was looking to do an episode in a fraction of the time that it would have taken. I think Dustin was trying to explain to him the amount of time it took him to do it plus his Dave school grads would be more of a hinderance than help.

Didn't see this posted.

The DigitalBits has a review posted on the upcoming Complete Blu-Ray set:

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/reviewshd/bdreviews071609.html

As ya'll probably know by now, once again BSG was passed over for the drama and acting awards at the Emmys. :( As I mentioned in the HOTP thread, this was the one opportunity they had to finally recognize a science fiction show, to throw the genre a bone, and they missed it again. Judging by the reluctance of the Syfy Network, not to mention any of the broadcast nets, to commission any "adult" science fiction ('Warehouse 13', 'Eureka' and their fluffy ilk seem to be the future of the genre), it will be a long, long time before we see its like again. Only 'Caprica' promises to buck the trend, and I'm not hopeful it will be able to crack the 3 million audience level, either. Sad, so sad.

IMHO the ending of the series was a big let down so they shouldn`t be awarded anything.

IMHO the ending of the series was a big let down so they shouldn`t be awarded anything.

How did you want it to end?

it was a cheesy ending for a series which was quite grim, especially a few episodes before the ending were grim.

it was a cheesy ending for a series which was quite grim, especially a few episodes before the ending were grim.

How did you want it to end?

a grimmer ending, not this one when they try to make a threating one with allusion our robots will rebel against us. at least I would have liked more they didn`t find our earth.

Anyone who had been paying close attention to the clues that were laid down knew Moore was going somewhere like the metaphysical place he ended up. There were too many things that simply couldn't be rationally explained any other way, such as Starbuck's resurrection and new Viper, Head Six, etc. There was a continual examination of and repeated references to God(s) and religion and man and machine and how they all interact. They went out exactly the way they wanted, and that doesn't diminish the overall accomplishment of the series as a whole. How could it? All that metaphysical stuff was the show; not space battles and wild plot twists (although they were cool too - icing on the cake). Some folks just never got that, and some still don't.

Just because a disgruntled fan may have wanted "something grimmer", or any of the other vague, petulant criticisms that are still being stammered about is irrelevant. Let them make a similar show then, and pray it's even half this good. There was no way the producers could have satisfied everyone's lofty expectations, no matter what rabbit Ron Moore could have pulled out of his hat. And besides, how much grimmer could it be, knowing the cycle of war was inevitably going to repeat itself, no matter what they did? That, too, was forecast repeatedly with the oft-quoted refrain: All this has happened before and it will all happen again. The clues were there; the ending was powerful; the show should have won an Emmy, or several. Not much more needs be said at this point.

How could you expect anything else? The entire show revolved around mysticism, religion, and spirituality as much as it did science and Battlestars. Even calling them all "clues" is a bit silly - they were major plot elements present from the very beginning. It would be like calling the Raptors "clues" that the series was set in space ;)

obviously the metaphysical part was the charm of the show and also thankfully there were few battles overall, thus making it a show centered on characters. I had no problems whatsover witht he notion of God being a big factor in a sci-fi show, because science is just God`s instrument for the foundations of this world to function. sorry for my english if I am not clear enough :). but the last 45 minutes were not on the level of the whole show, again IMHO. I don`t have a problem with somebody liked it the way it was. to each it`s own.

Anyone who had been paying close attention to the clues that were laid down knew Moore was going somewhere like the metaphysical place he ended up. There were too many things that simply couldn't be rationally explained any other way, such as Starbuck's resurrection and new Viper, Head Six, etc. There was a continual examination of and repeated references to God(s) and religion and man and machine and how they all interact. They went out exactly the way they wanted, and that doesn't diminish the overall accomplishment of the series as a whole. How could it? All that metaphysical stuff was the show; not space battles and wild plot twists (although they were cool too - icing on the cake). Some folks just never got that, and some still don't.

Just because a disgruntled fan may have wanted "something grimmer", or any of the other vague, petulant criticisms that are still being stammered about is irrelevant. Let them make a similar show then, and pray it's even half this good. There was no way the producers could have satisfied everyone's lofty expectations, no matter what rabbit Ron Moore could have pulled out of his hat. And besides, how much grimmer could it be, knowing the cycle of war was inevitably going to repeat itself, no matter what they did? That, too, was forecast repeatedly with the oft-quoted refrain: All this has happened before and it will all happen again. The clues were there; the ending was powerful; the show should have won an Emmy, or several. Not much more needs be said at this point.

Jupiter's Moons! I had NO IDEA all these posts had been made on this thread since my last visit.

Skipdrive, I couldn't have said it better, myself (I would have probably just used more words, needlessly :p)

Vmk2, you're free to your opinion, and based on those posted just after the show ended back in March, I'd say you're not alone. You may be a committed Atheist, as are many scientists and "serious" science and science-fiction fans, and that's your right, as well (although I argue that's it's own religion, only one that denies the existence of God, rather than affirming it ;)).

At any rate, without getting into religious and metaphysical debates in a forum where I'm certain such things are not welcome, I would simply say that what a show that had spent four years in a continual state of conflict, turmoil death and despair needed for an ending was a bit of peace... peace, and perhaps promise of at least a fresh start... And that final little bit with the two recurring characters -- the two "angels," or "demons," or whatever you wish to call them -- well that was just too darned tempting to pass up, if you ask me, and I can't see Ron Moore having ended it any other way.
Jeff

P.S. Someone mentioned Katie Sackhoff having a role on "24" next year... What did you guys think about her Nympho-Nitrous-Oxide-Huffing-Anesthesiologist role on "Nip/Tuck" this past season? Was she HOT, or what??? Especially in her alter-ego as "Dixie." Katie plays dangerous/crazy/sexy/hot pretty well, I think, lol. I think if I ever had a chance to have a relationship with her in real life, I'd be a little bit excited and a little more SCARED! :eek: :D

I might be kinda of an atheist, but I did like the metaphysical element in the series after all, I just didn`t like the last 45 minutes of the show. I do think that in pure sci-fi there is a place for metaphysical and religion. some even see 2001:a space odyssey from a religious point of view.

I could see how the last hour would be considered less than stellar to some. I enjoyed it.

I might be kinda of an atheist, but I did like the metaphysical element in the series after all, I just didn`t like the last 45 minutes of the show. I do think that in pure sci-fi there is a place for metaphysical and religion. some even see 2001:a space odyssey from a religious point of view.
LOL...I'm sort of the same way. I always hate saying I'm an atheist because people often assume I'm saying, firmly, that there is/are no god/s. And I always have to clarify by saying that while I do not believe in a god/s, there is no possible way for me to prove/disprove the existence of one/many, so I can never say with absolute certainty what may or may not exist. I guess it's because there are two definitions of atheism...which is a bit annoying.

In any case, I did love the finale (dancing robots aside anyway), but like Eric I get why some people simply wouldn't, and Vmk2 would fall into that category.

What I don't get are the people who claim Deus Ex Machina. A show where a character claims to be an "angel of God" from the very first season, and then people are upset when it turns out she was telling the truth. The possibility was always there. You can't be upset when the possibility turns out to be a reality, even if you were expecting (scientific) rationality. Like Skip said, they threw rationality out the window some time ago, so I was quite happy with what we got. Especially concerning Starbuck. If she turned out to be some clone or something, that would have just been forgettable...and her disappearance was anything but.

LOL...I'm sort of the same way. I always hate saying I'm an atheist because people often assume I'm saying, firmly, that there is/are no god/s. And I always have to clarify by saying that while I do not believe in a god/s, there is no possible way for me to prove/disprove the existence of one/many, so I can never say with absolute certainty what may or may not exist. I guess it's because there are two definitions of atheism...which is a bit annoying.

In any case, I did love the finale (dancing robots aside anyway), but like Eric I get why some people simply wouldn't, and Vmk2 would fall into that category.

What I don't get are the people who claim Deus Ex Machina. A show where a character claims to be an "angel of God" from the very first season, and then people are upset when it turns out she was telling the truth. The possibility was always there. You can't be upset when the possibility turns out to be a reality, even if you were expecting rationality. Like Skip said, they threw rationality out the window some time ago, so I was quite happy with what we got. Especially concerning Starbuck. If she turned out to be some clone or something, that would have just been forgettable...and her disappearance was anything but.

I think you're looking for the word agnostic then...

I think you're looking for the word agnostic then...

Not really...because I do choose a side. I guess I'm a hybrid (to work a BSG reference in there :p)...atheistic agnostic?

Wtf...that term exists: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_atheism

Not really...because I do choose a side. I guess I'm a hybrid (to work a BSG reference in there :p)...atheistic agnostic?

Wtf...that term exists: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_atheism

Sonofagun, Moob, had you not found it, and linked it, I would have never known there were such actual "tight" distinctions for agnosticism and atheism, although I'm happy to see there are, since, as I said before, my view is that an absolute atheist IS A Theist. :p Of course that's an argument I've never made with any "absolute atheists," as I know very few (the only public one I know and enjoy is Bill Maher), but I bet it would really "get their goat," lol.

As for me, I guess you could call me an "active agnostic," since I believe in pretty much everything and nothing at the same time, and think the relationship with "God" is something personal and private.
Jeff

What I don't get are the people who claim Deus Ex Machina. A show where a character claims to be an "angel of God" from the very first season, and then people are upset when it turns out she was telling the truth.

Wow, here I am again. Anyway my main problem with the ending is simply that it was kind of like Kenny Perry at The Masters. The show could have been something truly "special" but choked and in the end had nothing remotely original or insightful to add to the body of human "literature." It was nothing more than a whole lot of ha, ha, gotcha plot twists along the way to armegeddon.

"Chief Tyrol," said it best when he said, 'Trust me, after the finale you won't want to see these any of characters again.' ;)

Wow, here I am again. Anyway my main problem with the ending is simply that it was kind of like Kenny Perry at The Masters. The show could have been something truly "special" but choked and in the end had nothing remotely original or insightful to add to the body of human "literature." It was nothing more than a whole lot of ha, ha, gotcha plot twists along the way to armegeddon.

"Chief Tyrol," said it best when he said, 'Trust me, after the finale you won't want to see these any of characters again.' ;)

Hmmmmph! And you're gonna listen to THAT JERK?!? Did you SEE the way he tortured Kal El in that Kryptonite cage in "Smallville???" Almost KILLED HIM, he did! Would have if Lionel and Lana hadn't shown up!

Yeah, like HE's really someone with the judgment to say what's memorable and what's not! :p

Hmmmmph! And you're gonna listen to THAT JERK?!? Did you SEE the way he tortured Kal El in that Kryptonite cage in "Smallville???" Almost KILLED HIM, he did! Would have if Lionel and Lana hadn't shown up!

Yeah, like HE's really someone with the judgment to say what's memorable and what's not! :p

LOL ... yeah but no-one on Smallville has ever claimed (repeatedly) to be working on "The best frakking show on TV."

LOL ... yeah but no-one on Smallville has ever claimed (repeatedly) to be working on "The best frakking show on TV."

They'd have to be either retarded or completely certifiable! :p (and I'm a fan, lol)

The DigitalBits has a review posted on the upcoming Complete Blu-Ray set:

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/reviewshd/bdreviews071609.html

This bluray boxset is now down to $210 at Best Buy & Amazon.

I love playing Devil's Advocate and I'm in agreement with those who say this IS NOT "The Complete Series" WITHOUT the Webisodes included -- at least not without those that were directly pertinent to the storyline, such as "Face of the Enemy" on Season 4.5 (which happens to be the only Webseries I actually caught).

Anyway, I think it would serve Universal right if, after a most of the serious fans have paid more than $200 for the "Complete Series," at least 3 of them get together and file a class-action suit for either a complete refund OR a free copy of all the webisodes mailed to everyone who purchased what was SOLD as "The Complete Series."

Furthermore, I strongly agree with those of you who say shows shouldn't do this, PERIOD, with anything other than "fluff and fun" content (webisodes, that is). It's completely unfair to people who don't have broadband internet and therefore are never able to access Webisodes such as "Face of the Enemy." I very much agree that viewers who didn't see that were probably quite perplexed as to why Gaeta committed mutiny, whereas those of us who did had a much better understanding of how he felt and what he had been through, in addition to losing his leg... Realizing you'd not only been betrayed at that level, but also been duped into betraying your own people by someone you THOUGHT you could trust -- thus causing the execution of thousands you thought you had saved -- would be enough to drive most anyone to mutiny against a command that was going into a coalition with some of those same "people."
Jeff

It's not just the exclusion of those webisodes which make "The Complete Series" something less than, um, complete, Jeff. From episode 1 we were told the Cylons "have a plan". But the final bit of BSG, the Cylon-centric telemovie "The Plan" (coming to Syfy in November), is not included either. :confused:

What they should have called this box set is "The Nearly But Not Quite Complete Series".

...What they should have called this box set is "The Nearly But Not Quite Complete Series".

Thanks. That was the best laugh I've had all day. :D

Unfortunately, that happens to be a true statement. The phrase, "What were they thinking???!!!" comes to mind.

I've been buying the seasons as they come out so I don't see much reason to chunk all them to buy the set. The only positive I can see is that the box has commentary on every episode, which was hit and miss in season 1 and 2.

But that's not worth the money for me

I've been buying the seasons as they come out so I don't see much reason to chunk all them to buy the set. The only positive I can see is that the box has commentary on every episode, which was hit and miss in season 1 and 2.

But that's not worth the money for me

One and a half words for ya': blu-ray.

That said, I'm waiting on the "The Really Truly Honest-To-Goodness We Mean It This Time Complete Series" to be released. I'm guessing about this time next year.

One and a half words for ya': blu-ray.

That said, I'm waiting on the "The Really Truly Honest-To-Goodness We Mean It This Time Complete Series" to be released. I'm guessing about this time next year.

Well until I get a Blu ray player, not a factor for me. For the non BD owner, unless they have held off buying the seasons as they come out, I don't see much movement on these.

Unfortunately, that happens to be a true statement. The phrase, "What were they thinking???!!!" comes to mind.

BSG: The Lunch box.
BSG: The Action Figure.
BSG: The Toaster.

...

At this point, it's all about the mwurchendizing! Make sure you get the whole collection (early and often.) :D

BSG: The Lunch box.
BSG: The Action Figure.
BSG: The Toaster.

...

At this point, it's all about the mwurchendizing! Make sure you get the whole collection (early and often.) :D

Funny. Just watched Spaceballs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvmZ9SPcTzU) the other day. :D

Ahhhh, Skipdrive, but "The Plan" doesn't have the NAME "Battlestar Gallactica" in it, or, presumably, any of the same characters, so they MIGHT be able to get off on a technicality, there. I really don't see how they can on the Webisodes -- at least not on ones as pertinent to the storyline as "Face of the Enemy."

It will be interesting to see what happens. Lawsuit or not, I'm willing to bet that once sales drop off and the original supply of Box sets sells out there will be a re-issue that includes "never-before-included material," such as "Face of the Enemy," and possibly "The Plan" and "Caprica."
Jeff

Ahhhh, Skipdrive, but "The Plan" doesn't have the NAME "Battlestar Gallactica" in it, or, presumably, any of the same characters, so they MIGHT be able to get off on a technicality, there.

'The Plan' will have many of the BSG characters we've come to know and love, as it was filmed immediately after the finale wrapped while they still had the actors and production team available. It's all about the Cylons we're familiar with, after all.

The eventual really, truly complete BSG set we've been speculating about won't have anything relating to 'Caprica' the series, which is appropriate. RDM has stated that 'Caprica' will stand on its own.

I dont blame them for not putting the webisodes in the bluray because they never aired on the tv show on the channel.

But i do blame them for putting key plot points in those webisodes....they should only be for background filler not pertinent to the main story lines.

However, dowboy, since they DID include key plot points and were also both heavily advertised on the same channel that ran the regular series and ran on the website FOR that channel (and were produced by the same production team and starred the same cast members), I see a very valid point that they should be included in any "complete anthology" and a potential class-action suit (as I outlined above) that I really think could win in court (I'm not a lawyer, but I have a pretty good idea of how these things work). They're essentially perpetrating a fraud by selling that as a complete anthology UNLESS there's some disclaimer on the box (and in all advertising), I think.

It doesn't really matter to me, because even as much as I enjoyed the show, I'll NEVER pay the current price for the anthology, and by the time I buy it (if ever) it likely WILL include those things, lol.
Jeff

I've said this before, but I wouldn't doubt if the exclusion of the webisodes has to do with money. I know NBCU didn't want to pay for the previous ones because they considered them "promo" material...maybe something similar happened?

Perhaps they could be offered up as bonus content on BD Live? They're still all available on Hulu.

Has any complete series like this ever been reissued just to include something as insignificant as a short story? And when I say insignificant, I mean in the grand scheme of things considering how much content is included. I think it's important to the story as well.

If they think people who buy this set would buy another, they're out of their minds. Folks would just "acquire" the missing content. Most people who watched this show aren't idiots.

no offense, but I think we're making a way too big deal about the webisodes. Thery're not that important.

Not sure why SyFy is not showing the first three episodes of Season 4.5, but they are showing the last seven on 7/28 in a few hours.

I expect there may be a few adverts for the DVD/BD releases during the marathon.

The Express (Washington Post) in Washington DC had a nice little blurb on the Complete Series DVD set today...no way I'm re-buying it though...

Does Season 4.5 come out this week too?

no offense, but I think we're making a way too big deal about the webisodes. Thery're not that important.

except they show why gaeta took the path he did.

except they show why gaeta took the path he did.


...which was my main complaint about the webisodes (which I watched). They reveal major motivation for Gaeta's actions.....which were never touched on in the actual story arc.

For me, that's why they should have been included in an "complete" set.

I didn't watch the webisodes, but I don't recall having a problem with Gaeta's motovations.

IIRC he really, really hated Cylons - after what they had done on New Caprica and for taking his leg. I had no problem at all believing that hatred was sufficient for him to ally himself against an Admiral that is allowing Cylons to permeate the fleet and the Galactica.

Jonny, at the risk of being a MAJOR spoiler, on "Face of the Enemy," in addition to whatever OTHER motivations Gaeta may have had, his motivations were multiplied AD INFINTUM when, after the raptor he and three other humans, plus two "Sharons" were stranded in (I think it was a raptor -- I confuse the small vehicles)... Anyway, they were stranded in space, with limited oxygen and no power and just having to wait for rescue, and slowly, one by one, different crew members began having accidents that killed them off...

I believe the first was one of the "Sharons," who was working on an oxygen recycler to try to give them breatheable air for a longer time when she was electrocuted because her the rubber on her tool was partly missing (or something like that -- it's been a while)... That made the mechanic on board (whose tool she was using, and who had been injured, look suspicious). They were giving him occasional injections of morphine, and once after sleeping, Gaeta woke up and he was dead from an apparent suicidal overdose...

Then, finally, Gaeta woke up and both the pilot and co-pilot were dead. Only THEN did the remaining Sharon explain that she had done it ALL to save THEM, because she knew there wouldn't be enough air for more than the two of them... When he started calling her a murderer, etc., she told him he was no better.

She was the "Sharon" who had "helped him" with the resistance when he was working as a double-agent on New Caprica under Cylon occupation. He had given her lists of names of people he thought were in danger of being executed by the Cylons, or who were important to the resistance (again, I don't remember the exact details), and she had said she'd make sure they were all sent to safety. But, she told him then, all those names were promptly rounded up and executed... And she implied that either he was a complete idiot or he really knew what was happening and was just lying to himself.

Needless to say, he was the ONLY ONE to be recovered from that Raptor.

NOW do you see why that's important to be included with the Box Set?
Jeff

Yes just season 4.5 came out today too.

I just bought it at my lunch break, on the back of the box it promotes the extended episodes including "islanded in a stream of sars"

Yes SARS not STARS