Jonny, at the risk of being a MAJOR spoiler, on "Face of the Enemy," in addition to whatever OTHER motivations Gaeta may have had, his motivations were multiplied AD INFINTUM when, after the raptor he and three other humans, plus two "Sharons" were stranded in (I think it was a raptor -- I confuse the small vehicles)... Anyway, they were stranded in space, with limited oxygen and no power and just having to wait for rescue, and slowly, one by one, different crew members began having accidents that killed them off...

I believe the first was one of the "Sharons," who was working on an oxygen recycler to try to give them breatheable air for a longer time when she was electrocuted because her the rubber on her tool was partly missing (or something like that -- it's been a while)... That made the mechanic on board (whose tool she was using, and who had been injured, look suspicious). They were giving him occasional injections of morphine, and once after sleeping, Gaeta woke up and he was dead from an apparent suicidal overdose...

Then, finally, Gaeta woke up and both the pilot and co-pilot were dead. Only THEN did the remaining Sharon explain that she had done it ALL to save THEM, because she knew there wouldn't be enough air for more than the two of them... When he started calling her a murderer, etc., she told him he was no better.

She was the "Sharon" who had "helped him" with the resistance when he was working as a double-agent on New Caprica under Cylon occupation. He had given her lists of names of people he thought were in danger of being executed by the Cylons, or who were important to the resistance (again, I don't remember the exact details), and she had said she'd make sure they were all sent to safety. But, she told him then, all those names were promptly rounded up and executed... And she implied that either he was a complete idiot or he really knew what was happening and was just lying to himself.

Needless to say, he was the ONLY ONE to be recovered from that Raptor.

NOW do you see why that's important to be included with the Box Set?
Jeff

I've read the summaries of the webisodes. I have them, just haven't bothered watching them yet.

I understand the additional motivation. However, I'm saying that Gaeta had sufficient motivation for his part in the coup already. The people here are talking as if this webisode is necessary for explaining Gaeta's actions, but I really don't think they are.

I see why they're important and all that, just making the point that Gaeta's part in the coup were IMO sufficiently explained in the show as it aired.

I've read the summaries of the webisodes. I have them, just haven't bothered watching them yet.

I understand the additional motivation. However, I'm saying that Gaeta had sufficient motivation for his part in the coup already. The people here are talking as if this webisode is necessary for explaining Gaeta's actions, but I really don't think they are.

I see why they're important and all that, just making the point that Gaeta's part in the coup were IMO sufficiently explained in the show as it aired.

I disagree. I hadn't seen the webisodes before watching the end of the series. When Gaeta flipped out on Baltar and tried to kill him, this made absolutely no sense to me at the time. I assumed it was something that was going to be dealt with on the show and kept waiting for it to be explained, not knowing about the webisodes.

Thanks for helping make my point, NeoCortex.

Of course, flipping out and trying to kill Baltar still doesn't make sense in context, except that it was Baltar who was president when the Cylons occupied, and who surrendered and then ran a "puppet government" under them. But Baltar had no more choice in what he did as their "puppet" than did anyone else. He did what they told him to do, or they'd kill him and find someone else...

The REAL reason Gaeta flipped out and tried to kill Baltar at that point is that as his second-in-command, he had been acting in secret as a resistance double-agent, and THOUGHT he'd been a lot more effective than he had been because he BELIEVED he had a Cylon sympathizer in one of the Sharons, who had just told him otherwise. So now he hates HIMSELF... But, of course, he's not going to kill himself, so he lashes out at the most convenient target, who is Baltar. There was NO downside to the coup for Gaeta, because he was in SUCH a state of self-loathing after discovering that in attempting to save 100s, maybe 1,000s of his people, he condemned them to execution, that when the mutiny failed and he was executed, it was a relief for him.

THAT'S why "Face of the Enemy" is so vital to the story, PERIOD.
Jeff

I didn't watch the webisodes, but I don't recall having a problem with Gaeta's motovations.

IIRC he really, really hated Cylons - after what they had done on New Caprica and for taking his leg. I had no problem at all believing that hatred was sufficient for him to ally himself against an Admiral that is allowing Cylons to permeate the fleet and the Galactica.

I agree that alone, those were sufficient motivation to make the choices he did. The problem is, the webisodes revealed other aspects of the situation that were never covered in the main story arc which provided yet even stronger and more personal motivation.

My personal reaction is probably colored by the fact I hate the concept of webisodes in general, and ones that reveal information not sufficiently explained in the actual series specifically. Don't like them in Heroes or Lost either.

I agree that alone, those were sufficient motivation to make the choices he did. The problem is, the webisodes revealed other aspects of the situation that were never covered in the main story arc which provided yet even stronger and more personal motivation.

My personal reaction is probably colored by the fact I hate the concept of webisodes in general, and ones that reveal information not sufficiently explained in the actual series specifically. Don't like them in Heroes or Lost either.

At least with Lost, they are not really necessary to understand the show. Sure, they're interesting and add a little to the characters, but nobody who misses them will be out of luck when trying to understand the show.

Plus, Lost is kind enough to put their webisodes on the DVD releases.

Yes just season 4.5 came out today too.

I just bought it at my lunch break, on the back of the box it promotes the extended episodes including "islanded in a stream of sars"

Yes SARS not STARS

Could be worse. "Islanded in a Stream of H1N1" would be worse than quarantine in China.

Sure, they're interesting and add a little to the characters, but nobody who misses them will be out of luck when trying to understand the show.

That's because no one understands the show ;)

At least with Lost, they are not really necessary to understand the show. Sure, they're interesting and add a little to the characters, but nobody who misses them will be out of luck when trying to understand the show.

Plus, Lost is kind enough to put their webisodes on the DVD releases.

Exactly. Extra bits of amusement if you want it, but not essential (except maybe for the numbers--but I don't want to get OT on THAT mess :D).

I disagree. I hadn't seen the webisodes before watching the end of the series. When Gaeta flipped out on Baltar and tried to kill him, this made absolutely no sense to me at the time. I assumed it was something that was going to be dealt with on the show and kept waiting for it to be explained, not knowing about the webisodes.

It's quite possible, regardless of what the writers have/will say publicly, it made no sense to them as well. Remember that these webisodes were created quite some time after production for the show had shut down for the final time, many sets were already gone, actors released, etc. But they were created before the final run of episodes. I'm convinced they were created to explain that dynamic between Baltar and Gaeta that became so important throughout the final episodes, Gaeta's mutiny, etc.

Also wasnt there a "gay" angle to Gaeta that was in the webisodes ?

On second thought maybe its better that wasnt included in the bluray. :D

Yes, there was one, very brief, kiss between Gaeta and another man in the first Webisode, just before he boarded that ship, which I saw as sort of a TOTAL NONSEQUITER, since there was nothing even REMOTELY like that anywhere else in the entire series... They could edit out 5 or 10 seconds and that part would be GONE, lol.
Jeff

Yes, there was one, very brief, kiss between Gaeta and another man in the first Webisode, just before he boarded that ship, which I saw as sort of a TOTAL NONSEQUITER, since there was nothing even REMOTELY like that anywhere else in the entire series... They could edit out 5 or 10 seconds and that part would be GONE, lol.
Jeff

I forget the character's name, but I think that little bit was there to add some more anguish to Gaeta's decisions during the mutiny. His "lover" (meaning Gaeta was evidently bi) sided with Adama and was hustled off the bridge while Gaeta watched. If you hadn't seen the webisodes, that extra beat would be missed and the guy would be viewed as just another Adama loyalist removed from the bridge by the mutineers. They never did anything more with it.

That was Hoshi.

^^^Yes, thanks. Since he was a semi-reoccuring character, that little beat had extra weight. Something else that indicated those webisodes were something more than extraneous content.

As someone else mentioned, it gives you background as to why Gaeta is so concerned during the mutiny that Hoshi is in the group with Adama etc

Any place from which to to download the webisodes?

Any place from which to to download the webisodes?

Itunes was free. Not sure if still there or not

Any place from which to to download the webisodes?

I don't know about download, but they're at the Syfy site.

http://www.syfy.com/rewind/?sid=870861

Itunes was free. Not sure if still there or not

The podcasts are available at iTunes. Were the webisodes there at one time? They're not there now.

The podcasts are available at iTunes. Were the webisodes there at one time? They're not there now.

They were, and in fact were released earlier that Skiffy did. One episode was missing for a while but later appeared after the rest were put up. They were video podcasts if I remember right.

Maybe I missed it mentioned earlier, but has anyone mentioned if the Razor Flashbacks webisodes are included? I know the Resistance ones are, but don't remember seeing the Razor ones listed. I believe those are the one with a young Adama crashing on a planet and finding a Cylon lab.

I don't think these are nearly as plot-important as Face of the Enemy, but it is one more instance of the "Complete Series" being anything but.

I think the part about the young Adama finding the lab were incorporated into the DVD cut of Razor? Been quite a while since I watched it so don't quote me on that, but I thought they cut those flashbacks into the dvd release of it.

As for Face of the Enemy, it's on youtube...go download them and burn them on a dvd. problem solved as best you can.

OK, packaging and "missing" webisodes aside, any more reviews from those of you who have bought the set and have had a chance to watch a few of the episodes?

Ok broke out my copy of Razor from the Season 4 set and it has the extended version on it, which incorporates the Adama flashbacks into the movie itself.

No idea if the extended version is on on teh box set, but I would assume it is.

As many may know, BSG was nominated as Program of the Year by the Television Critics Association.

The winners were announced tonight in Pasadena, CA.

Results are posted on the "Hot Off The Press" thread here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16927424#post16927424

Yeah, and it WON Program of the Year from the TV critics, but wasn't even good enough for a NOMINATION in the Emmys?!?!?

Does anyone here wonder why I quit watching the Emmys YEARS ago???

Thanks, Fred.
Jeff

Emmys, Grammys, Insert Name of Show; I canceled those programs years and years ago....

Yeah, and it WON Program of the Year from the TV critics, but wasn't even good enough for a NOMINATION in the Emmys?!?!?

Because maybe it wasn't as good as the critics (originally) thought? I mean after years of proclaiming it 'one of the best shows on TV,' do you really expect the critics, in full-on group-think mode, to backtrack now?

Because maybe it wasn't as good as the critics (originally) thought?

Nope. It was better than anyone had a right to expect given the original subject matter. I doubt any of the critics raving about the first season suspected the dark places and relevant allegories the show would ultimately visit or the risks that were going to be taken. Regardless of whether one appreciated the ending - like 'The Sopranos', people will argue about it for years - it's hard to argue with the quality of the overall 5 year (w/ miniseries) body of work.

Well, I finally caved today and ordered the "Nearly Complete Set".

While I respect the fact that others may have different opinions of this series, for me it represented a high mark in TV viewing.

It probably would have been even better if they had a monkey inside a dog suit as a recurring character, but other than that flaw, it was pretty much perfect for me.

Yeah, and it WON Program of the Year from the TV critics, but wasn't even good enough for a NOMINATION in the Emmys?!?!?

Does anyone here wonder why I quit watching the Emmys YEARS ago??

Because maybe it wasn't as good as the critics (originally) thought? I mean after years of proclaiming it 'one of the best shows on TV,' do you really expect the critics, in full-on group-think mode, to backtrack now?

First, congrats to them.

Second, here's a short-list of recent shows that were never even nominated for best drama:

BSG
The Wire
Carnivàle
Rome
Veronica Mars
Friday Night Lights
The Shield

Yeah...the Emmy's are worthless.

Well I'm pretty sure "The Wire" also got snubbed, but at least Michael Chiklis from "The Shield" DID get a Best Actor Emmy his first year out (maybe more than one, but I'm aware of only one)... There was never a SINGLE Emmy Nom. for BSG in any category I'm aware of (pretty sure the same held true for "The Wire," which a lot of folks feel was possibly the best serious drama).

I never actually watched "Veronica Mars," although I heard it was really good. Saw only a season of "Rome," and it was great... Never saw "Carnivale," either, or "Friday Night Lights," which now actually requires you be a DirecTV subscriber to watch it (that sure seems weird to me, lol). I've heard great things about it, though -- I know Kyle Chandler's a good actor.

On the flip side there are plenty of shows that were very popular for many years with both the viewers (high ratings) and the Emmys that I never even cared for... "Seinfeld," "Friends," "Laverne and Shirley." So I think it must just be largely about taste, and I'm thinking a lot of people -- including Emmy voters -- just have a taste for s--t. :p Of course that's just MY opinion. Everyone else is welcome to his or hers. ;)
Jeff

Regardless of whether one appreciated the ending

Yep that's the problem alright ... all that hard work ruined by 3 hours of vanilla, empty, "feel-good" dreck. If that ending was the ultimate takeaway, it could have been done in one cheesy 4 hour mini series and I wouldn't have wasted all that time. :p

I expected better ... but then again I'm not sure RDM has ever had an original thought pass through his brain-pan.

Yep that's the problem alright ... all that hard work ruined by 3 hours of vanilla, empty, "feel-good" dreck. If that ending was the ultimate takeaway, it could have been done in one cheesy 4 hour mini series and I wouldn't have wasted all that time. :p

I expected better ... but then again I'm not sure RDM has ever had an original thought pass through his brain-pan.

The thing is, how else was he going to end it? The point of the show was the struggle to find Earth and end the War. Once that was done, the story was over. At least he didn't leave us all hanging and guessing.

Never saw "Carnivale," either, or "Friday Night Lights," which now actually requires you be a DirecTV subscriber to watch it (that sure seems weird to me, lol). I've heard great things about it, though -- I know Kyle Chandler's a good actor.


Not exactly. FNL has a "first-run" window with DirecTV, allowing them to telecast it prior to NBC, which broadcasts it to everyone else a few months later. It's worked well enough to give FNL another 3 seasons (two more coming).

Not exactly. FNL has a "first-run" window with DirecTV, allowing them to telecast it prior to NBC, which broadcasts it to everyone else a few months later. It's worked well enough to give FNL another 3 seasons (two more coming).

Sort of like "Monk" used to "first-run" on USA, then run on ABC before NBC, I guess, put the kibosh on that, since they own USA (I'm just guessing that's why ABC quit doing the second-runs... There could be any number of reasons). The TV business is simultaneously competitive and incestuous, so unless you're "on the inside" I don't think you ever really know what's going on.

As for your comment HDTV, I think you're just being MEAN. If you really feel that way, I don't understand why you're still posting here.
Jeff

The thing is, how else was he going to end it? The point of the show was the struggle to find Earth and end the War. Once that was done, the story was over. At least he didn't leave us all hanging and guessing.

Sure finding earth: good. That's not the issue, it's the way they found earth that's the problem. I prefer my religious dogma to be clearly labeled, that way I don't have to waste my time on it. :D

After all the fits, doubts, trials, and teases, the final takeaway was basically, "Repent or be cast into the pit." You can get that on any given Sunday morning or Wednesday night on just about any street corner here. Blah, blah, blah .... :)

As for your comment HDTV, I think you're just being MEAN. If you really feel that way, I don't understand why you're still posting here.
Jeff

Why? Because with all the hype, somebody needs to pull back the blinders. :)

Sure finding earth: good. That's not the issue, it's the way they found earth that's the problem. I prefer my religious dogma to be clearly labeled, that way I don't have to waste my time on it. :D



Religious dogma clearly labeled? Were you even really watching this show? The Religious aspect was clearly established from the very begining (#6 profesing to Baltar that God loves him, Roslin asking for a Priest so she could be sworn in as President...).

I have found it odd these past few months that people who watched the show for all 4 seasons were somehow amazed at the religious aspect of the finale.

Really? There is religion all through this series from the beginning to end. it didn't come out of nowhere.

The final Cylon is revealed! (http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/5aa7aae6c6/obama-debunks-birther-conspiracy)

The guy doesn't look a thing like Obama, but he sure as hell sounds like him.

"Mud golemn...... which I don't really care for."

Great vid.

Religious dogma clearly labeled? Were you even really watching this show? The Religious aspect was clearly established from the very begining (#6 profesing to Baltar that God loves him, Roslin asking for a Priest so she could be sworn in as President...).

Yes I watched the show. :D

The point is not the religious content itself, but the fact that after 4 seasons of teasing us and setting up "religious dogma (or prophesy)" to be revealed as the toxic BS that it is, RDM pulled his punch and gave us the "it's all really true (even if you don't believe in it)" ending. Happy, happy, joy, joy! {rrrrrraaaalllllph!!!} I have no other choice but to fly my "eagle flag" in response. :D

This is a show that belonged on the Pax network, not the SciFi Channel.

George Costanza said:

"I think it's neat. You don't hear that much about God anymore."

After all the fits, doubts, trials, and teases, the final takeaway was basically, "Repent or be cast into the pit." You can get that on any given Sunday morning or Wednesday night on just about any street corner here. Blah, blah, blah .... :)

If thats all you got from it, I understand your negative reaction. I feel sorry for you though if thats what you really think was the message.

..After all the fits, doubts, trials, and teases, the final takeaway was basically, "Repent or be cast into the pit." You can get that on any given Sunday morning or Wednesday night on just about any street corner here. Blah, blah, blah .... :)

That's certainly an interesting take on it, yet I don't see where the series preached that.

If anything, it was that humans are so dumb, they will continue to make the same mistakes previous generations did with pretty much the same results. I didn't see a message of required obedience to some higher being, but rather the exercise of free will.

If a higher power was involved, it appeared to be following the same pattern as some religions which allow for free choice. The basic premise would be that the higher power understands us better than we do ourselves, and provides adequate warning about the consequences of ill conceived choices.

To me, it is more along the lines of a microwave manufacturer warning owners not to put metal in the microwave. The owner still can make a free will choice to ignore the instructions, but shouldn't really blame the manufacturer when the darn thing blows up (though of course, many do and will sue despite their own stupidity).

Of course, the cosmology of BSG was more complicated than that. Yet it contained much of the tension between faith and science which Lost often struggles with.

To me, it is more along the lines of a microwave manufacturer warning owners not to put metal in the microwave. The owner still can make a free will choice to ignore the instructions, but shouldn't really blame the manufacturer when the darn thing blows up (though of course, many do and will sue despite their own stupidity).

Of course, the cosmology of BSG was more complicated than that. Yet it contained much of the tension between faith and science which Lost often struggles with.Thats funny you say that, I always wanted to put metal in the microwave, but I was scared to ruin a perfectly good micro wave, that and the warranty Gods mite prop me up in an alley to get beaten senseless and keep bringing you back up for more. So I did the next best thing and searched you tube. Here it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCVmSKS_LRw

If a higher power was involved, it appeared to be following the same pattern as some religions which allow for free choice. The basic premise would be that the higher power understands us better than we do ourselves, and provides adequate warning about the consequences of ill conceived choices.

LOL .... Well that, or It's just a slimey bastard that keeps running the same experiment on It's lab rats, over and over and over and over. But it loves those rats, really it does. ;) ..... :D

If thats all you got from it, I understand your negative reaction.

It's not all, but it is the most "resonate" reaction. Mostly it just irks me that folks, critics and fans alike are falling all over themselves to proclaim BSG one of the best shows ever, when if fact it's nothing more than a giant, hacked mash-up of previously "released" religious literature repackaged as pseudo-Science-Fiction. :)

OMG ... I think I just channeled Denis Leary or Bill Maher there. :D

Thats funny you say that, I always wanted to put metal in the microwave, but I was scared to ruin a perfectly good micro wave, that and the warranty Gods mite prop me up in an alley to get beaten senseless and keep bringing you back up for more. So I did the next best thing and searched you tube. Here it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCVmSKS_LRw

There ya go!

LOL .... Well that, or It's just a slimey bastard that keeps running the same experiment on It's lab rats, over and over and over and over. But it loves those rats, really it does. ;) ..... :D

Some day when you are standing before God ("You know it doesn't like to be called that!" - G. Baltar), I hope you have a better form of salutation than "slimey bastard". :D:D:D:D

Thats funny you say that, I always wanted to put metal in the microwave, but I was scared to ruin a perfectly good micro wave, that and the warranty Gods mite prop me up in an alley to get beaten senseless and keep bringing you back up for more. So I did the next best thing and searched you tube. Here it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCVmSKS_LRw

Oh it can be A LOT worse than that, Lost... 33 years ago, during my senior year in high school I got my first full-time job working in a factory bakery second shift... One day during dinner break someone who wasn't at all familiar with the fairly new microwave technology put the sandwich his wife had made him in the oven, still wrapped in the aluminum foil she wrapped it in (and nobody noticed), then hit the button... Suddenly there was all this BUZZ-ZAPPING and crackling and practically an explosion sound before the door to the oven flew open (and practically off its hinges), and someone had to explain to the guy what had happened, and why... Was pretty funny AFTER everyone's nerves settled down, lol.

On the FLIP side, at least twice I've had leftovers in a Corningware dish and put them up with a big stainless serving spoon in them, then when I took them out to reheat, not taken the lid off until AFTER I finished reheating -- and only THEN did I see the big spoon still sitting there... Never heard a single spark or zap or anything... The only thing I can figure is that all that creamic and tempered glass and food must insulate the metal, but I still wouldn't recommend trying your luck, as I figure I just got lucky...

The flipside is that some ceramic plates with painted patterns on their borders, for instance, will snap crackle and pop a little bit because there's metalic elements in the paint.
Jeff

Spoon in the microwave won't spark. Fork will. It requires sharp edges in relatively close proximity.

Foil bad, forks bad, serrated knife bad. All-steel smooth spoon is no problem.

Some day when you are standing before God ("You know it doesn't like to be called that!" - G. Baltar), I hope you have a better form of salutation than "slimey bastard". :D:D:D:D

Fortunately for me, that day will never come. :p

PS: The floggings will continue until morale improves. :D

Sorry if this has already been posted - I'm not paying much attention these days...this is probably only interesting to the most die hard BSG fans, or those interested in audio production.

Bear McCreary Masters 'Battlestar Galactica' at Bernie Grundman's (http://mixonline.com/news/berniegrundman_mcreary_battlestar_3007/)

After giving the 8 month old Doberman pound puppy we rescued a "time out", I was finally able to sit down for a few minutes and start watching the BR set.

Packaging and whether or not the set is "complete" aside, it reminded me again of why I like watching a series on disc. No commercials, bugs, or long waits between episodes/seasons.

It is a great HD transfer and the DTS-MA soundtrack itself is worth the price of admission.

Bryan Singer has supposedly been signed by Universal to work on the BSG movie they want to make. Appears he's working on a version based on Glen Larson's BSG and not the current one.

Bryan Singer has supposedly been signed by Universal to work on the BSG movie they want to make. Appears he's working on a version based on Glen Larson's BSG and not the current one.

They're really going to do that? Based on the original Glen Larson cheese-fest? I hope they're prepared for a wee bit of backlash. :rolleyes:

On the other hand, I guess Dirk Benedict has to be ecstatic about this news. His grapes were so sour they turned whine into vinegar.

Well right around the time of the series finale, Larson announced he was working on a movie version based on the old series. Now they have Singer on board and that probably also means that Tom Desanto, who was working on the 2001 version (sequel to the original) is probably involved as well.

Basically Universal is going to try to get every penny out of the franchise that they can.

Oh boy, I'm pumped. The return of Boxey and his daggit, dramatic lights under Baltar's face to make him look really evil and maybe, if we hope against hope we could also have flying motorcycles, Dr. Zee and Super Scouts.

Pee You

Bryan Singer to direct "Battlestar" film

Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:02pm EDT

LOS ANGELES (Hollywood Reporter) - Bryan Singer will direct and produce the big-screen version of "Battlestar Galactica."

The deal accelerates the development of "Galactica," for which Universal Pictures quietly picked up the movie rights in February from original show creator Glen A. Larson as the lauded Sci Fi series was wrapping up.

The deal also brings Singer ("The Usual Suspects," "X-Men," "Valkyrie") back to a project he was close to getting off the ground at the beginning of the decade. Singer and Tom DeSanto were developing with USA a pilot for Fox TV that was intended to be a sequel to the 1978 series, but those plans were shelved after the attacks of September 11. (The premise involved a human civilization on 12 planets decimated from an attack by intelligent robots known as Cylons. Survivors are led by the starship Galactica in their attempt to find a mythic 13th planet named Earth.)

News of Singer's possible involvement broke at Hitfix.com.

The feature is now being developed in the shadow not only of the just-wrapped series, which was a serious exploration of the politics of war, religion, torture and destiny, but also of the upcoming spinoff, "Caprica," set a generation earlier.

There is no script for the new "Galactica," though insiders have said the feature is to be a complete reimaginging and will stand separate from the series.

http://www.reuters.com/article/filmNews/idUSTRE57D0GA20090814

talk over on the Syfy forum that he will probably go JJ Abrams/Star Trek like and hire a bunch of young unknowns to do the movie so you can build a multi movie franchise around it. There was even a rumor that he wants Justin Timberlake to play Starbuck.

There was even a rumor that he wants Justin Timberlake to play Starbuck.All new actors and a star trek like reset would probably be the best scenario for this. But Timberlake? :eek: They might as well go direct to DVD, better yet just start it off on Earth with flying Hybrid bikes going to the clubs, they can meet up with Paris Hilton.

I still can't believe they're doing this. :rolleyes: There's a lot of goodwill out there now from the remade series, and anything that's going to tarnish that legacy will not be easily accepted. They don't want to further explore that universe with any new thoughts or growth, they just want a big splashy vfx extravaganza to pull in a zillion summertime dollars from the pimpled masses. Just another war flick in outer space, full of sound and fury signifying nothing. If they make this thing, I predict it will open with a "Terminator Salvation" thud. Hopefully.

All new actors and a star trek like reset would probably be the best scenario for this. But Timberlake? :eek: They might as well go direct to DVD, better yet just start it off on Earth with flying Hybrid bikes going to the clubs, they can meet up with Paris Hilton.

Actually, Timberlake impressed me in both Alpha Dog and Black Snake Moan. He's not a bad actor, if you can get past any preconceived "teen idol" notions.

I still can't believe they're doing this. :rolleyes: There's a lot of goodwill out there now from the remade series, and anything that's going to tarnish that legacy will not be easily accepted. They don't want to further explore that universe with any new thoughts or growth, they just want a big splashy vfx extravaganza to pull in a zillion summertime dollars from the pimpled masses. Just another war flick in outer space, full of sound and fury signifying nothing. If they make this thing, I predict it will open with a "Terminator Salvation" thud. Hopefully.

Wow...that is a lot of assumptions about the type of movie they are going to make based on an announcement with no further information. Kudos on your internet saviness!

Although I agree about the "landing with a thud" thing, since the OS never did that well, and neither did the SyFy series. Critical acclaim and rabid fan base? Yes. Successful from a "numbers" standpoint? No. Not sure why they would think a movie would do well. But hey, none of that stopped Serenity from being made (thankfully), and it came out pretty decent...from a quality perspective. Still didn't do well at the BO.

Wow...that is a lot of assumptions about the type of movie they are going to make based on an announcement with no further information. Kudos on your internet saviness!


What, you think it's going to be something different? Wanna' bet? :D

What, you think it's going to be something different? Wanna' bet? :D
I wouldn't take that bet. :p

Actually, Timberlake impressed me in both Alpha Dog and Black Snake Moan. He's not a bad actor, if you can get past any preconceived "teen idol" notions.

Although I agree about the "landing with a thud" thing, since the OS never did that well, and neither did the SyFy series. Critical acclaim and rabid fan base? Yes. Successful from a "numbers" standpoint? No. Not sure why they would think a movie would do well. But hey, none of that stopped Serenity from being made (thankfully), and it came out pretty decent...from a quality perspective. Still didn't do well at the BO.

I'm with you on Timberlake.

But you can't really compare Serenity to this BSG movie. Serenity was made by the same dude, with the same actors, and continued the story from the series (and it works as a finale as well). On the other hand, BSG's story has already been told, and it has a definitive conclusion. Sure we had Razor and soon we'll have The Plan, but those just fill in the blanks of the story we've already seen.

So what could they possibly do?

I know it's not the same, but this sort of reminds me of Saving Private Ryan/Band of Brothers. SPR was a good movie, but then BoB simply blew it out of the water because they were able to do things in a series you simply can't do with a 3-hour movie. As far as I'm concerned, there's absolutely nothing Singer could come up with that would ever come close to Ron Moore's BSG. If he does decide to go the TOS route, well, as someone who doesn't like Star Wars and Star Trek, I sure as hell won't be looking forward to that. Like you, I'm trying to figure out what the audience for a BSG movie would be (whether based on the old series, or the new), and I just don't see it either.

There's probably several (tens?) million kids out there who didn't get to see any of the BSG on TV who've heard the hype about it from afficianados. They could care less if Singer held to some proforma of the BSG we know and loved. Give it enough pre-release publicity to appeal to them and it could result in box office success. Appealing just to the numbers of viewers who tuned in to SciFi would be disaster.

Wow. What a terrible idea. How does a studio decide to 'reimagine' a franchise that just ran for half a decade, which was itself a 'reimagining' of a previous version of the show. Maybe in 10 years, sure. But this soon? Yikes.

Is it weird that I think they should still keep Starbuck a woman? Yeah, yeah... I know. The original was a guy. But still...


As far as Timberlake goes, they should keep him as far away from this as possible. He would be completely mis-cast. Yes, he's maturing into a pretty good actor. But BSG and Timberlake? NO. That idea sounds as bad as Matt Damon as Captain Kirk.

Is it weird that I think they should still keep Starbuck a woman? Yeah, yeah... I know. The original was a guy. But still...

I know what you mean. Katey Sackoff was a force of nature. It's hard to imagine anyone else in that role now. That's probably yet another reason why Dirk Benedict had his panties in such a bunch. :p

As far as Timberlake goes, they should keep him as far away from this as possible. He would be completely mis-cast. Yes, he's maturing into a pretty good actor. But BSG and Timberlake? NO. That idea sounds as bad as Matt Damon as Captain Kirk.

Depends. If they go for something similar to the innovative and challenging remake that just ended, well sure. But as I mentioned above, they're likely going to avoid that territory and just go with a huge vfx smash-boom extravaganza. It'll have a big budget (maybe more than the entire BSG series cost) and big names will be needed to sell it. Timberlake might fit in fine in that scenario.

^ Actually, a film like that would probably satisfy those who disliked the recent series because things didn't get "blowed up a lot".

... So basically, what ya'll's sayin' is that this thread as pretty much run it's course? :)

... So basically, what ya'll's sayin' is that this thread as pretty much run it's course? :)

As long as folks still want to talk about the show in some capacity, this thread will be here for 'em. ;) One of the amazing thing about this series was always the amount of interest and discussion it generated. It's been fun. :)

Personally, I think that as people buy the "nearly complete but not all inclusive" DVD or Blu-ray set, it will re-spark interest in discussion.

I know I'm having fun going through the Blu-ray set at the moment.

Is it weird that I think they should still keep Starbuck a woman?.

I don't care what they do with Starbuck. They could make that character a cigar chomping robot for all I care. But they DEFINATELY need to keep Boomer as a smokin' hot Asian woman.

I don't care what they do with Starbuck. They could make that character a cigar chomping robot for all I care. But they DEFINATELY need to keep Boomer as a smokin' hot Asian woman.

Agree... Sans Cylon.

I think they should make it XXX. Then "boomer" could REALLY live up to her name! :p:eek::D

Not to mention "6" eh? O_o

Maybe some good news on the BSG movie front: http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2009/08/21/bryan-singer-sits-at-the-round-table-for-an-excalibur-remake/

Here's to hoping they at least shelve the idea for a few years.

And this made me lol: http://blogs.news-journalonline.com/247/2009/08/tales-from-hollywood-pd-taking.html

^ Two very, very good links. Thanks for the find.

Ummmmm, Mooby??? That second link was CLASSIC!!! I loved it! I'm SOOO sick of remakes I could SCREAM! I'm still waiting for the FOURTH version of "A Star is Born" (yes, when Neil Diamond and Barbra Streisand made it in the late 70s, that was ALREADY the THIRD version!)

Frankly, I thought "Excalibur" was the best King Arthur movie I've ever seen (also had Patrick Stewart in one of his biggest pre-Picard roles), so that's another one I'm not sure they should be going after, but likely will (King Arthur movies never seem to go out of style).

By the way, even MORE off topic, but I happened to catch Episode 215 of "Stargate: SG1" the other night on SyFy... That was the one where the current team members had to help the guy who had the brief (3-episodes before cancellation) show, called "Wormhole X-Treme," a fictionalized version of their Stargate program, with his script for a movie based on his defunct TV show. They made SO MANY self-derogatory references to THEIR OWN show, as well as silly things shows in general -- especially Sci-Fi shows -- do -- had a brief pretend clip from Farscape with Claudia Black in it -- too involved to get into, but if anyone ever gets a chance to watch that episode -- even if you weren't a fan of the show, WATCH IT... That show NEVER took itself too seriously, which was close to HALF of what I liked about it (there was one scene about halfway through the series where [at-the-time Maj. Samantha Carter] was buried in an ice-cave in Antarctica with Col. O'Neill, played by Richard Dean Anderson, who previously played McGuyver, and who was too injured to help in their escape, and she uttered a line something like, "Great! I'm stuck in an ice cave in Antarctica with McGuyver and he can't help!"). They did stuff like that REGULARLY... Not enough for it to get old, but enough to keep it interesting and entertaining.
Jeff

The four season complete series set costs a hell-uv a lot of money and Universal Studios pulled the same cheap stunt that 20th Century Fox did with the first season Dollhouse release.

Both cheap asses did not provide the customer with a content booklet. There is nothing to tell the buyer which episode is on which piece of media. No short synopsis, no original airdate, nothing. Something that one comes to expect with a TV series release. Even the media doesn't indicate which episodes. Only which disc number it is.

One gets a Cylon that doesn't even want to stand up because the feet are misaligned.

Sigh :mad:

mrvideo, I very MUCH agree with you about the cheapout on the lack of those content booklets. My GUESS is that if confronted about it, the studios will say it's because they're "going green" and trying to "save trees." TRUST ME, I'm BIG on the environment and saving trees, but that would be a MAJOR copout!

That said, if you DO want some decent synopses for about ANY TV show ever made for each season and episode, go to IMDB.com punch in the name of that show, and then click on the Episodes link, then just print THAT out. There's a chance (although I haven't checked) they may even have something for DVD sets (or maybe there's another source that does). Even if they don't, they have a pretty decent synopsis for every episode of every show, and usually (although not always) have them broken down properly by season. I used this to figure out where the re-runs I was catching of "Tru Calling" were in the context of that show earlier this summer.

It doesn't make up for what Fox and Universal left out, but it might be better than nothing.
Jeff

mrvideo, I very MUCH agree with you about the cheapout on the lack of those content booklets. My GUESS is that if confronted about it, the studios will say it's because they're "going green" and trying to "save trees." TRUST ME, I'm BIG on the environment and saving trees, but that would be a MAJOR copout!

Yes, a major copout. Print on 100% recycled paper.

I used this to figure out where the re-runs I was catching of "Tru Calling" were in the context of that show earlier this summer.

http://vidiot.com/trucalling/ other shows: http://vidiot.com/TVShows/

I use IMDB alot and even point to there for actor info from my pages. It is a great resource.

It doesn't make up for what Fox and Universal left out, but it might be better than nothing.

There is no reason that I should have to put together my own booklet of any TV show I buy on DVD/Blu-ray. That should ALWAYS be provided by the production company. I pay them for that and I expect to get those booklets.

Yes, a major copout. Print on 100% recycled paper.



http://vidiot.com/trucalling/ other shows: http://vidiot.com/TVShows/

I use IMDB alot and even point to there for actor info from my pages. It is a great resource.



There is no reason that I should have to put together my own booklet of any TV show I buy on DVD/Blu-ray. That should ALWAYS be provided by the production company. I pay them for that and I expect to get those booklets.

I just clicked your links, MrVideo, and I had NO IDEA, dude -- YOUDAMAN! (and I mean that, seriously!). You appear to have some serious web capabilities. I don't have the time to spend much time on your pages right now, but those main pages looked VERY slick.

As for what you said about why you should have gotten the content booklets, +1 (AT LEAST) on that, and on top of that I'd add that the content booklet would have cost likely 100 times less and contributed 100 times less toxins to the environment than producing and including some junky plastic cylon whose feet don't even match up, so he won't even stand on his own.

Then again, I have the same issue with owner's (instruction) manuals with MOST electronics and other products these days, although I can quite often get a MUCH BETTER version via .pdf off the corporate website (which I sometimes do via pre-purchase research before I even buy, if it's a big TV or something). I STILL think the mark of a company that cares is one that provides proper documentation... On that mark, if you're ever buying a prefab cabinet or shelf to build at home, I've never gone wrong with Sauder -- best directions I've ever seen -- everything well-labeled, and they usually include ONE EXTRA of almost every screw, nut, bolt, etc. That's how it SHOULD be done.
Jeff

I just clicked your links, MrVideo, and I had NO IDEA, dude -- YOUDAMAN! (and I mean that, seriously!). You appear to have some serious web capabilities. I don't have the time to spend much time on your pages right now, but those main pages looked VERY slick.

Thanks, they've been built up over the years. I was on the web doing this stuff long before Bil Grates and his minions invaded the net. I started out doing Star Trek: The Next Generation on UseNet.

Not so serious. Only a dual core Athlon PeeCee running Solaris 10 for x86. I have to get on the WiMax connection to get the output speed to 4 Mbps from the 832 kbps that is it currently. Behind getting that done. The server is at my home, a few feet from where I am sitting. BTW, I try to use the KISS principle when doing web pages. The overcluttered, flashy, web pages aren't my style. As an information resource, I just want to get the info out there.

I sometimes do via pre-purchase research before I even buy, if it's a big TV or something

I get PDF manuals for stuff I'm looking at as well. Product sheets are one thing, the manual really tells the secret.

Anyway, we digress. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

By the way, even MORE off topic, but I happened to catch Episode 215 of "Stargate: SG1" the other night on SyFy... That was the one where the current team members had to help the guy who had the brief (3-episodes before cancellation) show, called "Wormhole X-Treme," a fictionalized version of their Stargate program, with his script for a movie based on his defunct TV show. They made SO MANY self-derogatory references to THEIR OWN show, as well as silly things shows in general -- especially Sci-Fi shows -- do -- had a brief pretend clip from Farscape with Claudia Black in it -- too involved to get into, but if anyone ever gets a chance to watch that episode -- even if you weren't a fan of the show, WATCH IT... That show NEVER took itself too seriously, which was close to HALF of what I liked about it (there was one scene about halfway through the series where [at-the-time Maj. Samantha Carter] was buried in an ice-cave in Antarctica with Col. O'Neill, played by Richard Dean Anderson, who previously played McGuyver, and who was too injured to help in their escape, and she uttered a line something like, "Great! I'm stuck in an ice cave in Antarctica with McGuyver and he can't help!"). They did stuff like that REGULARLY... Not enough for it to get old, but enough to keep it interesting and entertaining.
Jeff

I'm pretty sure that scene in the ice was from an outtake.

I'm not a fan of "200" which is the episode you're talking about. But I started disliking the show long before that. I've seen every episode of SG-1 and Atlantis, but the problem is I started watching when I was a kid (12?). As I got older, obviously my tastes changed, but I was already invested in the show, so I wasn't going to stop watching. I still liked the episodes that dealt with the Replicators or the Ancients, but couldn't really stand much of anything else. Looking back now, I have no idea how I took those scenes with the puppet Thor seriously. O_o It doesn't help that I'm not really nostalgic by nature.

But back to BSG, I finally got around to watching 4.5 on Blu (I'll watch the finale tonight). It really is gorgeous...not to mention the sound. Also, I liked the extended episodes a lot more than the broadcast versions. I wish they could to extended versions of everything.

This is the first time I'm watching the show since it ended, and now I miss it again. There really is nothing else like it on tv.

I'm pretty sure that scene in the ice was from an outtake.

I'm not a fan of "200" which is the episode you're talking about. But I started disliking the show long before that. I've seen every episode of SG-1 and Atlantis, but the problem is I started watching when I was a kid (12?). As I got older, obviously my tastes changed, but I was already invested in the show, so I wasn't going to stop watching. I still liked the episodes that dealt with the Replicators or the Ancients, but couldn't really stand much of anything else. Looking back now, I have no idea how I took those scenes with the puppet Thor seriously. O_o It doesn't help that I'm not really nostalgic by nature.

But back to BSG, I finally got around to watching 4.5 on Blu (I'll watch the finale tonight). It really is gorgeous...not to mention the sound. Also, I liked the extended episodes a lot more than the broadcast versions. I wish they could to extended versions of everything.

This is the first time I'm watching the show since it ended, and now I miss it again. There really is nothing else like it on tv.

Doggonit, Moobius, you keep talkin' an' you're gonna have me plunkin' out over $200 for somethin' I said I'd NEVER plunk out that much for! :eek:

As for that Antarctic ice-cave scene in SG1, I've seen that episode at least twice, and although it's been some time since the last time I saw it, I'm CERTAIN she actually said that IN the episode -- had NO IDEA you were this YOUNG, though -- Doodius, I'll be 52 in December... 52 goin' on 19, that is, lol.

You've gotten "old enough" to take things more seriously. I've gotten "young enough again" to learn NOT TO, lol. A LOT of us struggle SO HARD to become adults (even though it's been more than 30 years, I remember those times of rebellion and feeling like I wasn't appreciated and properly "recognized" like they were yesterday) that once we get into our 20s, sometimes we start to take things overly seriously and think we have to "be adult now."

To me, that's a fallacy. We have to be responsible and mature, but there's NOTHING wrong with remaining young at heart your entire life and I see no reason to EVER think you're "too old" to enjoy something you did as a teenager or a kid (unless it's something that's like legally inappropriate for an adult, or like PLAYING with children who aren't yours or in your care).

That doesn't mean I think juvenile humor is funny, such as the sort of pranks 12-year-olds play, but I always found and still find Col. O'Neill's many smarmy remarks funny. To get back on topic, I think even as DARK as BSG was, a bit of humor injected occasionally -- especially DARK humor -- might have even heightened the show, if done properly. Then again, I got quite a few chuckles out of several of the dilemmas Baltar wiggled his way into.
Jeff

That doesn't mean I think juvenile humor is funny, such as the sort of pranks 12-year-olds play, but I always found and still find Col. O'Neill's many smarmy remarks funny. To get back on topic, I think even as DARK as BSG was, a bit of humor injected occasionally -- especially DARK humor -- might have even heightened the show, if done properly. Then again, I got quite a few chuckles out of several of the dilemmas Baltar wiggled his way into.
Jeff

Baltar was what passed for comic relief on BSG. :p I've never seen a show so consistenly dark and humorless. That's not a criticism, by the way. Too often levity is unwarrented and shoehorned into situations just...well, just because the writers or network suits felt they needed 'em some funny for reasons entirely unrelated to narrative. BSG, to its credit, never bowed to that temptation. Rarely have I ever been so worn out after watching an hour of nail-biting television. Or so darn happy about it. ;)

I'm almost through Season One on BD. I thought the show was great before. Now I think it is even more better gooder. Being able to watch it without month long breaks is definitely the way to go.

As for Baltar, he is one of the most self-centered, confused, brilliant and self serving a person as I've ever run across. He's also a hoot from time to time.

Doggonit, Moobius, you keep talkin' an' you're gonna have me plunkin' out over $200 for somethin' I said I'd NEVER plunk out that much for! :eek:

As for that Antarctic ice-cave scene in SG1, I've seen that episode at least twice, and although it's been some time since the last time I saw it, I'm CERTAIN she actually said that IN the episode -- had NO IDEA you were this YOUNG, though -- Doodius, I'll be 52 in December... 52 goin' on 19, that is, lol.

You've gotten "old enough" to take things more seriously. I've gotten "young enough again" to learn NOT TO, lol. A LOT of us struggle SO HARD to become adults (even though it's been more than 30 years, I remember those times of rebellion and feeling like I wasn't appreciated and properly "recognized" like they were yesterday) that once we get into our 20s, sometimes we start to take things overly seriously and think we have to "be adult now."

To me, that's a fallacy. We have to be responsible and mature, but there's NOTHING wrong with remaining young at heart your entire life and I see no reason to EVER think you're "too old" to enjoy something you did as a teenager or a kid (unless it's something that's like legally inappropriate for an adult, or like PLAYING with children who aren't yours or in your care).

Mid-late 20's isn't that young. :p But I only bought 4.5. I got turned off by the packaging for the complete set. I'll just buy the individual seasons. Even if it's more expensive that way, that box set was full of fail.

And I found that clip of SG-1. O_o It was a blooper: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v9sCo7xZK0

And don't get me wrong...I do still like a few things from when I was younger (Gargoyles and Animaniacs come to mind), but I can't handle the majority of the other stuff I used to watch. Part of the problem is that the music on those shows from that period really wasn't the best, and for me, it's a huge turn off. Hell, I recently just got done watching Avatar: The Last Airbender (great animated series by the way).

Baltar was what passed for comic relief on BSG. :p I've never seen a show so consistenly dark and humorless. That's not a criticism, by the way. Too often levity is unwarrented and shoehorned into situations just...well, just because the writers or network suits felt they needed 'em some funny for reasons entirely unrelated to narrative. BSG, to its credit, never bowed to that temptation. Rarely have I ever been so worn out after watching an hour of nail-biting television. Or so darn happy about it. ;)
They did once. It was an episode from the first season, but I can't remember which one. Peter might know since he just finished it, but it's the episode where they introduced Ellen. I still liked the episode, but I think it's completely different in tone from everything else they've done.

I'm almost through Season One on BD. I thought the show was great before. Now I think it is even more better gooder. Being able to watch it without month long breaks is definitely the way to go.

I definitely got that feeling watching 4.5. It felt like I was watching 1 extremely long episode. If there's one thing to be said for all of season 4, there really wasn't any filler.

And I finished the finale last night. I think I liked it even more the 2nd time around. Not only were the new scenes welcomed, but they also re-edited the episode a little compared to what I remember on SciFi. Awesome.

They did once. It was an episode from the first season, but I can't remember which one. Peter might know since he just finished it, but it's the episode where they introduced Ellen. I still liked the episode, but I think it's completely different in tone from everything else they've done.


Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down. I think Edward James Olmos directed this one.

Yes EJO directed that one. Her and Lee at the dinner table was quite funny.

Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down. I think Edward James Olmos directed this one.

Yup. Just watched it yesterday. Of course, knowing the "full story" of those two made this actually even more enjoyable.

"...don't fr@k with me, Bill...."

"Don't you fr@k with me...!"

It's okay rezzy. You can say FRACK all you want with no fear of censorship or offense. Just one of BSG's many gifts that keep on giving. :)

Hee, hee....been re-gifted since 1979...

Hee, hee....been re-gifted since 1979...

It's a shame they didn't try to bring back felgercarb as well.

Although I will gladly forget felgercarb if it means being able to forget that frakking daggit.

It's a shame they didn't try to bring back felgercarb as well.

Although I will gladly forget felgercarb if it means being able to forget that frakking daggit.

Actually, felgercarb was brought back as a toothpaste:

Felgercarb Toothpaste
In the pilots' briefing room, Kara holds a tube of Felgercarb toothpaste from Tauron. The word "felgercarb" is a nod to the original Battlestar Galactica series. The term was a profanity invented for that series, often spoken by the original Starbuck character (played by Dirk Benedict). It was used as an utterance to express frustration or as a noun to describe something as nonsensical or phony (similar to the common term that also describes the excrement of a bull).

The label on the tube states that Felgercarb is "the best selling toothpaste on Tauron," the colony perhaps best known as the original home of former Admiral Helena Cain.

http://www.tv.com/battlestar-galactica-2003/someone-to-watch-over-me/episode/1247296/summary.html

Actually, felgercarb was brought back as a toothpaste:

Felgercarb Toothpaste
In the pilots' briefing room, Kara holds a tube of Felgercarb toothpaste from Tauron. The word "felgercarb" is a nod to the original Battlestar Galactica series. The term was a profanity invented for that series, often spoken by the original Starbuck character (played by Dirk Benedict). It was used as an utterance to express frustration or as a noun to describe something as nonsensical or phony (similar to the common term that also describes the excrement of a bull).

The label on the tube states that Felgercarb is "the best selling toothpaste on Tauron," the colony perhaps best known as the original home of former Admiral Helena Cain.

http://www.tv.com/battlestar-galactica-2003/someone-to-watch-over-me/episode/1247296/summary.html

I completely forgot about that bit. Thanks for reminding me. It still would have been nice to hear it used as an expletive once, although I imagine it would sound pretty weird and out of place in the new series. Frak is so close to what it's replacing, that it practically rolls off the tongue.

Will this thread ever die? Or is it a case where whosoever posteth in this thread . . .

So say we all!

Old BSG fans never die, they just post away...

No this thread just wont quit. LOL. I only read it just in case theres a video release of just the naked eights and six's on the scissoring Cylon ships. I can hope?

Does this thread deserve to survive?

Absolutely! :) As long as anyone has anything to say or comment about the show, sure. Lots of people are discovering it now on DVD & Blu-ray since the "complete" set came out.

Absolutely! :) As long as anyone has anything to say or comment about the show, sure. Lots of people are discovering it now on DVD & Blu-ray since the "complete" set came out.

Not only that, but those of us who have been with BSG since the original mini-series may be finding more fodder for discussion as we are watching the series as part of an uninterrupted marathon.

Dang, Peter, I'm guessing you NEVER give anyone a reason to "walk a mile" in YOUR shoes! ;)

As long as "The Plan" hasn't aired on SyFy, anything goes.

Hey, what happened to The Plan? Has it been shifted to DVD/Blu-Ray only, or is Scy-Fy still airing it?

Hey, what happened to The Plan? Has it been shifted to DVD/Blu-Ray only, or is Scy-Fy still airing it?

I believe a DVD release in November and on SyFy in 2010

The Plan is going to be released on Blu-Ray/DVD October 27th.

It'll air on Syfy sometime in 2010 last I heard.

The Plan is going to be released on Blu-Ray/DVD October 27th.

It'll air on Syfy sometime in 2010 last I heard.

My bad, I thought it was 1st week of November. Thanks for the correction :)

Since WHEN does a show that's LEGITIMATELY PLANNED to run on a regular channel -- even "SyFy" -- get released on DVD/Blu-Ray FIRST?!?!? I got the email from Amazon, too, and I was very confused, because I was pretty sure "The Plan" hadn't hit the airwaves yet -- got me started thinking maybe I was wrong.

Glad to see my last few fried brain cells didn't lose what little cellulose is still holding them together, lol.
Jeff

uhh...Caprica.

I still haven't seen that, lol... Biding my time, I guess.

BTW, the price on the Blu-Ray for the "Complete Set" for BSG is down to like $203 at Amazon, last I saw... I'm guessing if we wait long enough, it'll get down to $100.
Jeff

When the next Battlestar spinoff start?

My bad, I thought it was 1st week of November. Thanks for the correction :)
What the...sorry, I didn't see your previous post. After reading my post I came off kind d-baggy. :p

When the next Battlestar spinoff start?
January 22nd. I think.

What the...sorry, I didn't see your previous post. After reading my post I came off kind d-baggy. :p

I didn't think that at all, no worries

DigitalBits did a bluray review of The Plan which is out 10/27: (read at own risk cause i can never tell whats considered a spoiler):

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/reviewshd/bdreviews101609.html

nice. thanks for the link.

i can never tell whats considered a spoiler):

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/reviewshd/bdreviews101609.html

Well whaddayaknow, dcowboy7, there's FINALLY something you and I have in common! :p

Just saw on Facebook that the Plan has been pushed back for TV showing from late 2009 until sometime in 2010 now.

Battlestar Galactica The Plan is still set for release on DVD late October. 27th to be specific. Sci-Fi have thrown back the planned air date for the movie til 2010 back from November 2009.

Just watched The Plan Bluray...I don't want to lie, there were no big reveals, not even that much added information. We got to see an extremely shortened arc of the BSG series from the perspective of the Cylons (and not all of the Clyons, a very select few). It was entertaining but it really made me miss the series...and really really makes me want to re-watch all of the seasons.

Definitely see it...its 100% worth your time.

EDIT: And the Digital Bits review isn't too spoilery...and is actually a very good review of the material.

I also just watched the Plan blu ray. It really won't function as a stand alone movie for someone unfamiliar with BSG. It is quite choppy, and jumps around a bit. As a fan who hasn't watched the early seasons of BSG for a few years, I was not quite lost, but still trying to remember events that occurred from the other perspective. But I almost feel like I need to rewatch the early seasons to familiarize myself with the material after watching the Plan. I am not going to spoil anything. But I do want to say I liked the slow version of the BSG theme music that played over the closing credits.

Think I'm STILL gonna wait until there's a TRULY "complete package," with "The Plan," "Caprica," and "BSG" including the internet stuff ALL in one set... and then when THAT set gets down to about $99 for the Blu-Ray, I'll bite! ;)

Grace Park And Tricia Helfer's Explosive 'Maxim' Photo Shoot (http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2009/10/14/grace_park_and_tricia_helfer_s_explosive)

http://www.starpulse.com/news/media/MaximBSG1.jpg

Just in time for the Movie on DvD.

Think I'm STILL gonna wait until there's a TRULY "complete package," with "The Plan," "Caprica," and "BSG" including the internet stuff ALL in one set... and then when THAT set gets down to about $99 for the Blu-Ray, I'll bite! ;)

Keep dreaming

Grace Park And Tricia Helfer's Explosive 'Maxim' Photo Shoot (http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2009/10/14/grace_park_and_tricia_helfer_s_explosive)

http://www.starpulse.com/news/media/MaximBSG1.jpg

Just in time for the Movie on DvD.

It looks like they photoshopped the hell out of Tricia and Grace...damn shame because they are hot without the need of photoshop

I'm not seeing a lot of PS based on a vid of the shoot ( except for lighting and perhaps skin tones). No major body re shaping- none needed as you say. Too much make up, but that's the nature of the beast.

It looks like they photoshopped the hell out of Tricia and Grace...damn shame because they are hot without the need of photoshop

That, and they are a tad skinny. Not unhealthy so mind you but skinny. To think Grace parks is 35 and the skinny. Kudos to her.

That, and they are a tad skinny. Not unhealthy so mind you but skinny. To think Grace parks is 35 and the skinny. Kudos to her.

holy ****! I had no idea she was 35...wow...born in 74! That's insane...I thought she was in her mid-20s!

I know she has the body of a 20 year told but she is 35. Another one like that is Kelly Hu (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005026/)she is 40, wife really dislikes her :)

It looks like they photoshopped the hell out of Tricia and Grace...damn shame because they are hot without the need of photoshop


The pleasure of Photoshop is all the time you get to spend slowly and carefully dragging your cursor across their Beautiful bodies. Hmmm

That, and they are a tad skinny. Not unhealthy so mind you but skinny. To think Grace parks is 35 and the skinny. Kudos to her.

To kinda quote jeff foxworthy:
"if you think theyre skinny....you might just be a chubbychaser." :D

To kinda quote jeff foxworthy:
"if you think theyre skinny....you might just be a chubbychaser." :D

HI My name is Wytchone and im a cubbychaser..

Hi Wytchone :P

I also just watched the Plan blu ray. It really won't function as a stand alone movie for someone unfamiliar with BSG. It is quite choppy, and jumps around a bit. As a fan who hasn't watched the early seasons of BSG for a few years, I was not quite lost, but still trying to remember events that occurred from the other perspective. But I almost feel like I need to rewatch the early seasons to familiarize myself with the material after watching the Plan. I am not going to spoil anything. But I do want to say I liked the slow version of the BSG theme music that played over the closing credits.

I pretty much agree with the above......This is something that if you havent watched the entire series, or dont remember much from the beginning then you will feel lost through most if not all of The Plan.

Saying that it was very well done and a must see for fans of the show. I think many will be surprised about the graphic parts of the movie, (nudity, gore). I cant wait until I get to see the series again, as this movie puts some things into better perspective.

For those waiting for an "Ultra Package" IMO I dont see one coming. I think what we see is what we are going to get.

Another blu review with 20 screenshot pics in a tab: (again may include spoilers)

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Battlestar-Galactica-The-Plan-Blu-ray-Review/6375/

Also:
Universal will start releasing the show in individual seasons on Blu-ray on 1/5/10 with the release of Battlestar Galactica: The Complete First Season.

I think many will be surprised about the graphic parts of the movie, (nudity, gore).

Weird, it made it more realistic and I'm sure Moore and Eick wanted to do it just like they did it in The Plan for the entire series...

Did anyone get excited when Cabal told the 8 on the Galatica to strip down after she planted the charges in the water tank? hahaha sick on man:D

Weird, it made it more realistic and I'm sure Moore and Eick wanted to do it just like they did it in The Plan for the entire series...

Did anyone get excited when Cabal told the 8 on the Galatica to strip down after she planted the charges in the water tank? hahaha sick on man:D

It did make it more "realistic", but I still think people wil be caught off gaurd lol......The "Starship Troopers" scene threw me off for a second lol.....

It did make it more "realistic", but I still think people wil be caught off gaurd lol......The "Starship Troopers" scene threw me off for a second lol.....

I would have been more surprised if they hadn't done the same thing in Caprica. Got to admit I rewound a few times to the start of the locker room scene, the first girl is amazing.


As for the movie, I am very disappointed. I was very excited for some more Galactica, but what we got was about 45 minutes of new material, and an hour of stuff we have already seen.

I guess I'm gonna have to give in and figure a way to buy -- or at least rent -- "Caprica" and "The Plan" -- especially now that I know there's NUDITY involved, lol... Anytime the BIG N-word comes up, my juices start rising to the surface (trust me, that's NOT a pretty sight) :eek: :p :D
Jeff

I pretty much agree with the above......This is something that if you havent watched the entire series, or dont remember much from the beginning then you will feel lost through most if not all of The Plan.

So, is there a recommended sequence for watching the two in some sort of parallel order?

So, is there a recommended sequence for watching the two in some sort of parallel order?

That would be pretty hard...actually damn near impossible

holy ****! I had no idea she was 35...wow...born in 74! That's insane...I thought she was in her mid-20s!

Actually, both girls were born in '74. A very good year.

Actually, both girls were born in '74. A very good year.

Well, actually '74 pretty much SUCKED for me... The first half was my sophomore year, and the second half was the start of my junior year in high school, and I was NOT "the popular kid." I was the one everybody picked on... BUT apparently some folks with some REALLY GOOD GENES were "gettin' it on" in '73, lol. I just wasn't one of 'em. :o

So, is there a recommended sequence for watching the two in some sort of parallel order?

You can Watch Caprica without having watched BSG as it is more of a "stand alone" show. While related to the BSG universe it has little connected with the BSG series that would make you lost.

The Plan however, I would not recommend until after you watch the series in full. This way if you have not seen the series some of it does not get spoiled for you. The Plan assumes you have seen the series as there would be some MAJOR spoilers if you had not seen it. Of course, there will be some people who will watch the Plan then the series, and it would be interesting to see what is revealed in The Plan play out in the series.

So, is there a recommended sequence for watching the two in some sort of parallel order?

Unless you are OK with MAJOR spoilers, you should watch the plan after you finish the BSG Series.

The pilot of Caprica should be fine to watch as a stand alone, but no one knows what kind of detail the series will get in to, that may spoil some of BSG, I wouldn't expect it to be much though

Thanks, I should have mentioned I watched the entire BSG series in order (and Caprica). But because it has been so long since the beginning I'm wondering if I should watch the first couple of seasons - or the whole thing - again before watching The Plan. Thoughts?

Thanks, I should have mentioned I watched the entire BSG series in order (and Caprica). But because it has been so long since the beginning I'm wondering if I should watch the first couple of seasons - or the whole thing - again before watching The Plan. Thoughts?

It probably wouldn't hurt to watch the first two season over first, but I think you would probably be fine without doing that. Most of the references back to the series are big enough plot lines that I doubt you would not remember them, especially since the movie incorporates a number of the old scenes back into it.

Not the entire series re watch, the Plan only covers season 1 and 2 i think.

Not the entire series re watch, the Plan only covers season 1 and 2 i think.

The timeline takes place during this timeframe, but the "Final Five" play a vital role, so if you have not seen the last 2 Seasons as well you won't quite get it.

Caprica would be the last thing I watch. The last 10 minutes of the pilot pretty much shows the starting of

Caprica slight spoiler.
the hatred the machines feel for the humans in the BSG series. Zoe's line about her fathers arrogance was deafening. It made me want to root for the Cylons during the series

Damnit sorry, used the wrong tags.

Its noted in the bluray section here:

BSG: The Complete Series on bluray is only $175 at Best Buy....sweet !!

so with The Plan & Caprica on the horizon if anyone wanted the whole picture nows you chance.

Its noted in the bluray section here:

BSG: The Complete Series on bluray is only $175 at Best Buy....sweet !!

so with The Plan & Caprica on the horizon if anyone wanted the whole picture nows you chance.

Told you folks the prices would keep dropping... Been, what, just a little more than three months and the price has already dropped by $75? That's a full 30% off in just a bit more than 3 months and we haven't even hit the REAL Christmas discount season yet... Mark my words -- it'll be available for $100 or less before it's over with -- at this rate, maybe by Christmas, lol.
Jeff

Anybody else watch The Plan yet? What did you think of it?

Enjoyed the shower scene :P

Filled in a few queston on the attack on Caprica, the follow up and how it all went to pot. Not bad but I did expect better,dunno why.

I watched about 75% of it so far. I thought the re creation of the nuclear attack was very well done. Can't wait to see that in HD or on Blu Ray once I get a player for it. Even on an upscaling DVD player it looked well. The girl that walked across screen when Cavil and the 6 walked in...holy moly had ot back that up and watch it again.

Anyone else bothered by the splicing of so much old scenes from the actual series into it? I know EJO used other camera angles but it's still the same scenes.

So since The Plan has been in Very Long Wait status at NF for weeks/months, is it safe to assume that the version airing on Syfy this Sunday is the same? Will I be missing anything by watching it on TV vs. getting the Blu-Ray?

I mean, I'll be gaining commercials, snipes, station bugs and whatnot, but can I assume there won't be any editing or anything?

So since The Plan has been in Very Long Wait status at NF for weeks/months, is it safe to assume that the version airing on Syfy this Sunday is the same? Will I be missing anything by watching it on TV vs. getting the Blu-Ray?

I mean, I'll be gaining commercials, snipes, station bugs and whatnot, but can I assume there won't be any editing or anything?

You'd think it is the same, but who knows. FWIW, I thought it was a waste of my time.

So since The Plan has been in Very Long Wait status at NF for weeks/months, is it safe to assume that the version airing on Syfy this Sunday is the same? Will I be missing anything by watching it on TV vs. getting the Blu-Ray?

I mean, I'll be gaining commercials, snipes, station bugs and whatnot, but can I assume there won't be any editing or anything?

Yes, there is female frontal nudity on the DVD version. That will not be on the TV version.

Yes, there is female frontal nudity on the DVD version. That will not be on the TV version.

Is that, full frontal?

Is that, full frontal?

More importantly, is it Boomer nudity, or some lesser creature?

Is that, full frontal?

How full is "full?"

There's frontal and rear nudity of BOTH sexes in the locker room... Two different scenes, if I remember, correctly. I was somewhat surprised they had a unisex locker room where the men and women walked amongst each other completely nude in close proximity like there was nothing to it.

Neither scene was very long, nor showed any one person for very long, and nothing in extreme detail, but it was enough to be titilating -- especially if you're used to standard BSG with NO nudity.

I'm not sure what else might be cut due to a graphic nature, or whatever... Since they continue to use the word "frak," they don't have to cut ANY of what would in most cases be cut curse-word scenes... However, "the unkindest cuts of all" on TV are those made to make something "fit the time allotted for presentation." Of course, depending on how much time they allow and how long RDM's original production was, that COULD mean they end up ADDING scenes (or adding TO scenes) rather than subtracting (it HAS been done before -- If memory serves me correctly, one of the networks did it with "Superman 2" to make it fit a 3-hour time slot, because it was too long to fit in 2 hours and too short for 3). So what you see on SyFy COULD end up having scenes cut AND scenes ADDED to it, or it might just have the nudity cut -- OR they might just blur out the nudity in those scenes (they often do that -- although in the shower scene, they'd be blurring MOST of the picture, lol) and not cut ANYTHING... All of those are possible.

You just have to decide what you want to do.
Jeff

How full is "full?"

Well my view on full frontal is, breasts and female genitalia. The male parts I have no interest in.

And anything other than Six's and Sevens, could be considered lesser creatures, but viewable just the same.

To quote "Booger" from "Revenge of the Nerds," WE HAVE BUSH! :p

As to whether we have any MORE than that, frankly I didn't pause the video and go frame-by-frame with a magnifying glass, or anything, lol. Ummm, I like a nice, full female buttock, and there are a couple of those, too.

The male genitalia, well, ME NEITHER, but on the VERY RARE, OUTSIDE CHANCE, there might ACTUALLY be a FEMALE who reads this thread, yeah, I think there was a dangler or two, lol.

And NO, there were no nude 6s or 7s, but you can see PLENTY of 6 from her Playboy pictorial :cool:
Jeff

Well my view on full frontal is, breasts and female genitalia. The male parts I have no interest in.

And anything other than Six's and Sevens, could be considered lesser creatures, but viewable just the same.

Did you mean Six's and Eights? Because Sevens were dudes, and we never saw them in the series.

Yeah, 8s... someone posted 7, and I just wasn't paying close attention.
Jeff

The female nude was some extra that just walked through the frame.

From what I read on the scifi.com board a couple of months ago, the on air version is definitely shorter then the dvd version. No idea why as they only thing they would have to cut for tv is the nudity in that 1 scene and its about 15 seconds total, if that.

Season 1 came out on Blu Ray on it's own today. Hopefully they fixed the packaging issue they had with the complete set.

Got the BD of "The Plan" a few weeks ago; plan on watching it tonight with a bud. My reasoning was that eventually I'll have to spring for the "all inclusive" series set which doesn't include it, so to have a "complete" BSG set (minus "Face of the Enemy", of course), I'll need it. And what the heck, I just wanted to see some space boobies too. :p

Thanks for the feedback. I'll probably just watch it on SyFy then. Tired of waiting for the BD and I've seen a few thousand naked women before so don't care about that....

...my wife showers daily

...and I watch a LOT of porn :)

...and the co-ed shower has been done before (Starship Troopers, and probably others).

More worried about the shorter running time though. Netflix lists it at 112 minutes, so by my calculation they'd be cutting out quite a bit of other stuff to cram it into 2 hours unless they're running it with minimal commercial interruptions or something (yeah...right). Guess I'll watch it on SyFy then just leave the BD in my queue to watch later if/when it ever ships.

I didn't find the same sex showering that odd. In the show the pilots all bunked together regardless of sex. Also in season 4 there was a scene of baltar and Starbuck in the bathroom performing bathroom functions at one point to the best of my memory.

Even without the brief nudity, it still has to be a different cut from the TV version. Perhaps with some deleted scenes added back in that don't specifically drive the plot but flesh out some characters' background or motivation. If I had a choice, and I do, I'd watch the BD prior to the TV version.

Is that, full frontal?

Yes, as in bare breasts with nipples exposed. I don't know about full frontal male nudity.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but please, that's why I got the DVD version, to see the show without any editing/censoring by SyFy.

It may be cable, but there are lines even SyFy won't cross. :D

The Plan premiere on SyFy tonight at 9:00, I hope its up to the BSG "Classic" standard.

Anybody who has CONFLICTS (such as "Chuck" also premiering at 9 p.m. tonight), bear in mind that "The Plan" will REPLAY IMMEDIATELY at 11 p.m. Eastern (and probably a few more times during the next week, as well... If you're a fan of "Chuck" and don't have a DVR or VCR, it'll likely be re-runs time before you get a replay on that, Hulu aside... Many other shows start a new season at 9, too, but that's the main one for me.

Also, the last few minutes of "Serenity" are currently playing on SyFy, for anyone who's interested.
Jeff

Great show :)

Wow; quite shocked to see a topless bar-maid (The Plan on SyFy). She was in the background and slightly out of focus, but could still be clearly seen. BTW, I did see Serenity for the first time; now I want the HD DVD version, heeh..

How soon are they up on SyFy?

"The Plan" was excellent for special effects and plot holes. Otherwise, I don't know how anyone could follow this unless they had watched all episodes up to season two. Its supplimentary, just not essential.. I give it a 4/5. The complete BSG; The Miniseries, and Seasons 1-4 get the 5/5.

I already saw the DVD version and was less than impressed. I wanted to know--and STILL want to know, what was the story with the Olympic Carrier from the first episode "33?"

I already saw the DVD version and was less than impressed. I wanted to know--and STILL want to know, what was the story with the Olympic Carrier from the first episode "33?"

It was indeed the way the Cylons were tracking the fleet, as it was attempting to ram the Galactica and the attacks stopped once it was destroyed. In the original version of the script, we were to see people at the portholes of the OC before Lee and Starbuck started shooting. It would have amped up the stakes even further in an already super-intense episode. But the network thought that was too dark so they "suggested" those frightened faces be removed in the final vfx shots.

I finally got "The Plan" from Netflix; it was a long wait. Mostly for naught. This is a glorified clip show with a few newly filmed additions. And the plot??? Psshhhh:

You mean to tell me all the "plan" was, was to wipe out the human race? That's it? That's the plan. But it didn't work so now they have to sabotage the rest of the humans in the fleet, but that falls apart because some of the models begin to love...Great plan...

Add to that some all too frequent, unnecessary nudity (including front male)--it was almost like they said "hey! we can finally show the unisex shower rooms!"--and it really just wasn't all that great of a epilogue.

I you haven't seen it yet, I think you might like "Caprica" better, bpeacock, although I'm uncertain how they're going to make a series out of that... I guess they'll use the movie as a jump-off for the series. I LIKED the movie. It explained A LOT to me and also left me feeling very sad.
Jeff

My problem with it was that the title itself was misleading. We already knew the Plan was to wipeout the humans. The Plan didn't give you any more insight into the plan itself.

Which goes back to the lettering at the beginning of the episodes "and they have a plan"

The plan is to wipeout humanity. Like we didn't get that idea from the mini?

Well, we wondered about "the plan" when they stopped trying to wipe out humanity. (Somewhere in Season 2, it becasue obvious that the writiers didn't really have a plan). This show does a adecent job of going back and retconning how the plan morphed into what we saw in later seaons.

I have to agree that the promise of "The Plan" was more than was actually delivered. This was basically like another episode of Season 4, just broken out into a 2-hour telemovie. I enjoyed it, and wasn't it great to re-visit that world for awhile...? But it wasn't as revelatory as I would have hoped.

"Razor", on the other hand, felt more like a stand-alone movie. Maybe because the main character was someone outside the regular cast and it took place in the harrowing Pegasus universe which was somewhat unknown to us. It's part of the "complete" DVD/BD set just released, right?

,,, It's part of the "complete" DVD/BD set just released, right?

Yes

I think the Plan to me just reinforced how great season 1 and 2 was and that they really lost their way writing wise from there on. They had a great beginning but just could not join things together in a more coherent manner.

I have all the seasons on regular DVD and thought about getting the Blu Ray ones. A friend of mine said they heard there is commentary for every episode of the Blu ray whereas the regular DVDs are not. Is this true?

After reading a fellow AVS member bad mouth Kate Vernon over in the Heroes thread all I can say is I loved the scene in the bar when she was kneeling on the stool sticking her bum out!;) "The Plan" was entertaining. It was nice to see the storylines from a different POV.

"The Plan" was excellent for special effects and plot holes. Otherwise, I don't know how anyone could follow this unless they had watched all episodes up to season two. Its supplimentary, just not essential.. I give it a 4/5. The complete BSG; The Miniseries, and Seasons 1-4 get the 5/5.
I have to agree that the promise of "The Plan" was more than was actually delivered. This was basically like another episode of Season 4, just broken out into a 2-hour telemovie. I enjoyed it, and wasn't it great to re-visit that world for awhile...? But it wasn't as revelatory as I would have hoped.

"Razor", on the other hand, felt more like a stand-alone movie.
I agree with all of that. And even though Razor jumped around the timeline, it still felt more coherent than The Plan.

I think the Plan to me just reinforced how great season 1 and 2 was and that they really lost their way writing wise from there on. They had a great beginning but just could not join things together in a more coherent manner.
I'm the opposite. I thought season 4 was by far the strongest season. Looking back now, the first season, while still great, was still a bit formulaic. It wasn't until seasons 3 and 4 when they really opened up the story a bit. And that started with the one-year jump at the end of season 2.

I'm the opposite. I thought season 4 was by far the strongest season. Looking back now, the first season, while still great, was still a bit formulaic. It wasn't until seasons 3 and 4 when they really opened up the story a bit. And that started with the one-year jump at the end of season 2.

Indeed. The 1 year jump and New Caprica arc were two of the defining moments of the series, IMO. It was an incredibly bold move to take the show in that new direction, with ramifications that reverberated all the way to the end. Season 4 was just amazing in terms of the directions the audience was pushed, then pulled. It never let up.

There are people who didn't like the New Caprica arc because of political ideology. There are people who didn't like the ending because of the spiritual aspect. There are people that had a problem with one or more characters or how they were developed. Many of them condemn the entire series because of some perceived slight during a part of it. "It was good until <fill-in-the-blank> and then it sucked."

What we can now see looking back on the series as a completed work was that the whole was indeed greater than the sum of its parts. It will always be considered a masterwork, the standard by which all other genre shows will be judged. We already see those inevitable comparisons with every new sci-fi effort that rolls down the pike.

You took the words right out of my mouth archi.

And at the same time I can understand why some people didn't like the show after the first season and a half-ish. It really did change quite a bit. I mean, how many people would have predicted that the show would turn into a courtroom drama for 3 episodes? I found it to be expertly written and acted and loved every second of it, but that's not necessarily what people signed up for after watching the first season.

I third you two guys.

I think too many folks want a particular show to fit into their own pre-conceived ideas of WHAT Sci-Fi should, or shouldn't be... A lot of sci-fi fans are confirmed atheists, or agnostics, for example, and therefore if there's any sort of spiritual component brought to bear -- especially the way it panned out in BSG -- they get VERY annoyed, as happened with this show for many on this thread... Others get unhappy if there's too much action, or too little... it gets too dark, or too technical, or whatever.

I just don't go those places. I try to look at a work, overall, and what it "brings to the table," overall, as a work. I felt BSG did NOT retcon itself, regardless of all the arguments that it did and the "evidence" presented to "prove" so. I thought the way it ended was sort of neat. We have no way of knowing, proving or disproving such things. To me, an atheist is as much of a religious fanatic as a full-blown fundamentalist -- they simply believe in a "Godless religion." Stating that you absolutely deny the possibility of the existence of a supreme being, or a divine intelligence, and/or something that connects all life is really no different from saying that you absolutely KNOW your various interpretation of God/religion is the absolute truth. PROVE either assertion.

As I saw it, the way the show ended was fun and playful, and made for a satisfying and compelling resolution.
Jeff

Well let me be clear. I still enjoyed season 3 and 4. My point of view is that they set the bar so high in 1 and 2, that 3 and 4 were somewhat of a lesser degree of excellence. I think some of the side tracks and 1 off episodes in 3 would've sat better with me if the show had gone 5,6, or 7 seasons.

For me the personal turning point was after New Caprica. Some of the decisions certain characters made just seemed totally out of left field.

For me the personal turning point was after New Caprica. Some of the decisions certain characters made just seemed totally out of left field.

Sounds interesting. Let's discuss!

One of the biggest questions has to be about the Cylon's plan, and why it suddenly changed. The ostensible reason was that Caprica Six and the Three that would become Athena (I've got that right, right?) were somehow able to convince the entire Cylon Nation to do an abrupt 180 and decide to live in undisturbed peace with the surviving humans, in essence sharing the galaxy.

But there could have been another reason: They discovered that humans are notoriously difficult to completely eradicate and the "logical" solution might be to just live with them and thereby remove the risk that they could somehow find a way to reverse the fortunes of war. They are constantly faced with the risk of fight or die and necessity is the mother of invention. Humans, a practical machine might conclude, are dangerous and unpredictable. And it would be centuries before they could rebuild their technology and civilization to represent an actual risk. By then, Cylons would have advanced too, and the machines will always be ahead of them. Seems sensible. Until New Caprica proved that wasn't going to work either, and the "hawks" (Cavil, mostly) reasserted control.

Well, I don't have any reasonable answers to the questions you raise, but I can throw in a few more:

How does the "ruling class" of cylons work? Seems like a chosen one can represent an entire model line, and whatever s/he decides becomes the decision of the entire line (though clearly #8 had its problems with Boomer).

With the cylons wanting Starbuck's eggs, had they finally realized they need humans for their own survival in order to move to the "next level"?

I would add a third, that some of the cylons have connected with a "higher power" that has given them a source of right and wrong---but those type of questions drive some people crazy (even though there are many references over the episodes to "God's will".

Well, I don't have any reasonable answers to the questions you raise, but I can throw in a few more:

How does the "ruling class" of cylons work? Seems like a chosen one can represent an entire model line, and whatever s/he decides becomes the decision of the entire line (though clearly #8 had its problems with Boomer).

I'm thinking it's more a matter of age, just like in most early human societies. The longest living elder becomes leader of the tribe because he's had the most experience. That works until the tribe becomes too big to manage, and there are interim institutions like monarchies and so forth, but I think that may be kind of the general idea.

Individual Cylon consciousness is retained no matter how many times they download into new bodies. Therefore, the first Cylon to be created, Cavil, is the oldest and sort of the "supreme leader" even though it's ostensibly a "democracy".

With the Cylons wanting Starbuck's eggs, had they finally realized they need humans for their own survival in order to move to the "next level"?

Did they ever really resolve that plot point or was it kind of abandoned? They didn't know that Starbuck was some kind of divine "special" sort of human at the time (or maybe she wasn't until she "died" and re-surfaced), so I don't think her kidnapping was particularly noteworthy. Wasn't she just another human female to experiment on?

I would add a third, that some of the Cylons have connected with a "higher power" that has given them a source of right and wrong---but those type of questions drive some people crazy (even though there are many references over the episodes to "God's will".

Lots of unanswered theological questions raised, especially in the finale. I don't even think Ron Moore is sure about that one. But maybe it's not so big a leap to surmise there has evolved in the galaxy a race of beings who are so much older and more advanced that they actually are able to manipulate "lessor" beings around like pieces on a chessboard. So advanced they manifest their presence as unseen gods, perhaps operating outside our understanding of physics. Plenty of good sci-fi has explored that theme, but there's no indication Moore was going there. He deliberately left it open to interpretation.

They never answered the issues of Starbuck's eggs from the Farm episode. It had the potential to be an interesting plot twist. IIRC Leoben told her the little girl on New Caprica was the product of her eggs, but of course we know that was not true when the real mom shows up on Galactica.

Still would like an answer to the Olympic Carrier from the beginning of season 1. Were there people on it? Had the Cylons compromised the ship in some way?

The biggest plot hole to me is that for the initial attack the Cylons plan to knock down the Colonials ability to fight back by making their battlestars and fighters inoperable, but they never had a plan for Galactica which is not a networked battlestar. Why? They had Cylons on the ship and with Baltar's access they knew it wouldn't fall prey to their plan so they should have had a second plan to deal with it individually. DUMB.

Still would like an answer to the Olympic Carrier from the beginning of season 1. Were there people on it? Had the Cylons compromised the ship in some way?


See post 9933, just above. Short answer - yes & yes.

...

The biggest plot hole to me is that for the initial attack the Cylons plan to knock down the Colonials ability to fight back by making their battlestars and fighters inoperable, but they never had a plan for Galactica which is not a networked battlestar. Why? They had Cylons on the ship and with Baltar's access they knew it wouldn't fall prey to their plan so they should have had a second plan to deal with it individually. DUMB.

Since the Chief (one of the final five) was on board, they couldn't risk something happening to him. Cavil still wanted him to learn some "lessons" at that point.

I'm thinking it's more a matter of age, just like in most early human societies. The longest living elder becomes leader of the tribe because he's had the most experience. That works until the tribe becomes too big to manage, and there are interim institutions like monarchies and so forth, but I think that may be kind of the general idea.

Individual Cylon consciousness is retained no matter how many times they download into new bodies. Therefore, the first Cylon to be created, Cavil, is the oldest and sort of the "supreme leader" even though it's ostensibly a "democracy".

That would work for me. As we've seen, he is the "leader"



Did they ever really resolve that plot point or was it kind of abandoned? They didn't know that Starbuck was some kind of divine "special" sort of human at the time (or maybe she wasn't until she "died" and re-surfaced), so I don't think her kidnapping was particularly noteworthy. Wasn't she just another human female to experiment on?

I believe that at that point in time she was "just" human--though somehow she knew she had a "destiny".



Lots of unanswered theological questions raised, especially in the finale. I don't even think Ron Moore is sure about that one. But maybe it's not so big a leap to surmise there has evolved in the galaxy a race of beings who are so much older and more advanced that they actually are able to manipulate "lessor" beings around like pieces on a chessboard. So advanced they manifest their presence as unseen gods, perhaps operating outside our understanding of physics. Plenty of good sci-fi has explored that theme, but there's no indication Moore was going there. He deliberately left it open to interpretation.

Moore's universe and its theology could easily accommodate any of those points.

My wife and I watched the plan last night. Put me in the camp who is a bit disappointed that the plan was post-nukes, no plan. My wife complained that the 6 scenes were a bit more gratuitous than normal (I guess the DVD had some other gratuities too). Fell into the waste of time category for me.

I think too many folks want a particular show to fit into their own pre-conceived ideas of WHAT Sci-Fi should, or shouldn't be... A lot of sci-fi fans are confirmed atheists, or agnostics, for example, and therefore if there's any sort of spiritual component brought to bear -- especially the way it panned out in BSG -- they get VERY annoyed, as happened with this show for many on this thread... Others get unhappy if there's too much action, or too little... it gets too dark, or too technical, or whatever.

I completely disagree. I think many of us folks have preconceived ideas of what Sci-Fi NEEDS to be in order to remain relevant and plausible. Not in a realistic sense, but in that fictional universe. Overall, I loved BSG, but I am in the camp that believes the series deteriorated after season 2. I was neither offended by the spiritual aspects, nor was I wanting more action. I thought the writers went off in too many directions and were never able to put it all together in the end. In my opinion, the show succeeded DESPITE the fact that there was no sum to all of its parts.

BSG's move to softer sci-fi in the third and fourth season seemed to require certain leaps of faith that I wasn't willing to take. My all time favorite soft sci-fi writer, Ursula Le Guin explains fantasy/sci-fi plausibility better than I ever would ...
http://www.ursulakleguin.com/PlausibilityinFantasy.html

http://www.ursulakleguin.com/PlausibilityRevisited.html

BSG's largest flaw was the lack of background story for the cylon civilization. This was a huge asset during the first two seasons since it added a level of mystery to the entire show. However, as seasons 3 and 4 continued to expand the cylon storylines, the viewer was left without any background or context to how they became what they are or even what their motives were.

BSG's move to softer sci-fi in the third and fourth season seemed to require certain leaps of faith that I wasn't willing to take.

BSG's largest flaw was the lack of background story for the cylon civilization. This was a huge asset during the first two seasons since it added a level of mystery to the entire show. However, as seasons 3 and 4 continued to expand the cylon storylines, the viewer was left without any background or context to how they became what they are or even what their motives were.

That was a choice you had the right to make; but its ironic that spirituality/conscience is based on freewill.

In my opinion there was absolutely no need for a Cylon backstory or motivation. In our histories many peoples have appeared from "no where" (from the perspective of the victims), hated, attacked, and destroyed other people for little to no real reason; other than a preceived threat or simple jealousy. (Didn't the Cylons justify the attack on Religious grounds?)

I agree that the lack of a complete background story for the Cylons wasn't necessary to enjoy the show. We saw their impact on human civilization, and we sorta' knew their motivations. We had what we needed to follow the plotline.

But, that said, I was always curious about their homeworld. They must have had vast shipyards to construct that many huge basestars and it would have been cool to have seen stuff like that. I was hoping perhaps some of that background might have been included in "The Plan", but there probably wasn't the budget for creating a whole new world we hadn't seen before.

To me, an atheist is as much of a religious fanatic as a full-blown fundamentalist -- they simply believe in a "Godless religion." Stating that you absolutely deny the possibility of the existence of a supreme being, or a divine intelligence, and/or something that connects all life is really no different from saying that you absolutely KNOW your various interpretation of God/religion is the absolute truth. PROVE either assertion.
I suppose that's why you could call me a "soft" atheist in that while I don't believe in a god or gods, I also don't believe that that's something we'd ever be able to prove/disprove. I agree that anyone who states adamantly that there isn't is just as bad as one who states adamantly that there is.

I completely disagree. I think many of us folks have preconceived ideas of what Sci-Fi NEEDS to be in order to remain relevant and plausible. Not in a realistic sense, but in that fictional universe.
BSG's move to softer sci-fi in the third and fourth season seemed to require certain leaps of faith that I wasn't willing to take. My all time favorite soft sci-fi writer, Ursula Le Guin explains fantasy/sci-fi plausibility better than I ever would ...
http://www.ursulakleguin.com/PlausibilityinFantasy.html

http://www.ursulakleguin.com/PlausibilityRevisited.html
Taken from your first link: The rules that govern how things work in the imagined world cannot be changed during the story.

I can't think of an instance where BSG broke its own rules. I've never thought of BSG as a science-fiction show, but rather as a drama with a science-fiction background. Yes, they were in space fighting killer robots, but that was secondary to the characters and what the show was really about.

Sounds interesting. Let's discuss!

One of the biggest questions has to be about the Cylon's plan, and why it suddenly changed. The ostensible reason was that Caprica Six and the Three that would become Athena (I've got that right, right?) were somehow able to convince the entire Cylon Nation to do an abrupt 180 and decide to live in undisturbed peace with the surviving humans, in essence sharing the galaxy.

Wasn't that Boomer? Athena was with Helo when they got rescued from Caprica, and Boomer was with 6 when they killed Lucy Lawless (Can't remember the character's name...lol).

I agree that the lack of a complete background story for the Cylons wasn't necessary to enjoy the show. We saw their impact on human civilization, and we sorta' knew their motivations. We had what we needed to follow the plotline.

But, that said, I was always curious about their homeworld. They must have had vast shipyards to construct that many huge basestars and it would have been cool to have seen stuff like that. I was hoping perhaps some of that background might have been included in "The Plan", but there probably wasn't the budget for creating a whole new world we hadn't seen before.

Maybe they will get to this as Caprica goes along and approaches the time period of the 1st Cylon war.

Maybe they will get to this as Caprica goes along and approaches the time period of the 1st Cylon war.

I don't want to get my hopes up too high, but that is exactly what I am hoping for with Caprica. I bought the DVD of the pilot as soon as it was available, and thought that great potential was there.

I suppose that's why you could call me a "soft" atheist in that while I don't believe in a god or gods, I also don't believe that that's something we'd ever be able to prove/disprove. I agree that anyone who states adamantly that there isn't is just as bad as one who states adamantly that there is.

That would make you an agnostic, not an atheist. Welcome to the club! :)

Taken from your first link: The rules that govern how things work in the imagined world cannot be changed during the story.

I can't think of an instance where BSG broke its own rules. I've never thought of BSG as a science-fiction show, but rather as a drama with a science-fiction background. Yes, they were in space fighting killer robots, but that was secondary to the characters and what the show was really about.


Your definition of BSG as a drama with a sci-fi background is pretty much the definition of soft sci-fi that Ursula Le Guin is famous for. BSG was revolutionary for a TV show, but they certainly didn't create a new story genre.

Read the paragraph before the line you quoted ...
I believe that as soon as wishful thinking or a conscious political or didactic purpose intrude on that credence, they deform it and the story loses plausibility. Wishful thinking gives us the feeble kind of fantasy where everything is easy, and you never have to feed or water or look after the horse you rode all day. An ideological purpose produces a sermon, or satire (which is not fantasy, and has very different standards of plausibility, since it is a mirror held up to actual life).
The touchstone to plausibility in imaginative fiction is probably coherence. Realistic fiction can be, perhaps must be, incoherent in imitation of our perceptions of reality. Fantasy, which creates a world, must be strictly coherent to its own terms, or it loses all plausibility. The rules that govern how things work in the imagined world cannot be changed during the story.

BSG seemed to take pride in the fact that these fictional colonists obeyed the same physical laws of our own universe. This added a certain level of plausibility to the entire story. They had to fight and scrap in order to survive. Nothing came easy. As Ursula Le Guin puts it, they had to feed, water, and look after the horse they rode all day. However, by the end of season 4, they simply ignored all of those things and had a ghostly Starbuck point to Earth. They no longer had to feed the horse. And pushing even further into the implausible, once they arrived on Earth, they actually killed the horse.

BSG seemed to take pride in the fact that these fictional colonists obeyed the same physical laws of our own universe. This added a certain level of plausibility to the entire story. They had to fight and scrap in order to survive. Nothing came easy. As Ursula Le Guin puts it, they had to feed, water, and look after the horse they rode all day. However, by the end of season 4, they simply ignored all of those things and had a ghostly Starbuck point to Earth. They no longer had to feed the horse. And pushing even further into the implausible, once they arrived on Earth, they actually killed the horse.

While I willingly concede that the mystery of Starbuck and her shiny new Viper was never resolved, it's incumbent to remember that Moore never said one way or the other what she was, leaving that to the audience's imagination. At least there were never any bumpy-headed bi-pedal aliens speaking perfect English, which already puts it head and shoulders above most anything else sci-fi related that's ever appeared on the small screen.

While I willingly concede that the mystery of Starbuck and her shiny new Viper was never resolved, it's incumbent to remember that Moore never said one way or the other what she was, leaving that to the audience's imagination. At least there were never any bumpy-headed bi-pedal aliens speaking perfect English, which already puts it head and shoulders above most anything else sci-fi related that's ever appeared on the small screen.

Yes, I completely agree and I did love the series as a whole. But there needs to be a balance between audience interpretation and plot resolution. I personally think they went too far with allowing interpretations because they simply had written themselves into a corner with no logical resolutions. They wrote a lot of seemingly important storylines in seasons 3 and 4 that turned out to be completely irrelevant in the end. There was no Kaiser Soze moment. Looking back on the series as a whole, I thought it was great, but I do have to actively ignore a lot of the loose ends to completely enjoy it.

I don't want to get my hopes up too high, but that is exactly what I am hoping for with Caprica. I bought the DVD of the pilot as soon as it was available, and thought that great potential was there.

My disappointment with The Plan was the inverse of Caprica. I loved the pilot and can't wait for the series to start next week!

Yes, I completely agree and I did love the series as a whole. But there needs to be a balance between audience interpretation and plot resolution. I personally think they went too far with allowing interpretations because they simply had written themselves into a corner with no logical resolutions. They wrote a lot of seemingly important storylines in seasons 3 and 4 that turned out to be completely irrelevant in the end. There was no Kaiser Soze moment. Looking back on the series as a whole, I thought it was great, but I do have to actively ignore a lot of the loose ends to completely enjoy it.

I think that's one of the problems inherent with serialized television. You never know how long you've got, so how far do you go developing and extending the narrative? Too few or undeveloped plotlines and the story drags, too many and it becomes difficult to keep all the balls in the air and tie everything together at the end.

There seems to be universal agreement that LOST got its mojo back when they set a series end date that various storylines could coalesce around. It almost seemed like the whole Starbuck mystery was introduced so dramatic conflict could be created between one group of people who loved her and trusted her implicitly, and another group who were suspicious and distrustful. Mission accomplished, but there should have been more of a payoff at the end.

That would make you an agnostic, not an atheist. Welcome to the club! :)
Depending on where you look, there are different definitions for both atheism and agnosticism. I go by the definitions of atheists being nonbelievers and agnostics being undecided (or even saying that we don't know). Ehhhhh...give me a part-time pass since I have my feet in both clubs. :p

BSG seemed to take pride in the fact that these fictional colonists obeyed the same physical laws of our own universe. This added a certain level of plausibility to the entire story. They had to fight and scrap in order to survive. Nothing came easy. As Ursula Le Guin puts it, they had to feed, water, and look after the horse they rode all day. However, by the end of season 4, they simply ignored all of those things and had a ghostly Starbuck point to Earth. They no longer had to feed the horse. And pushing even further into the implausible, once they arrived on Earth, they actually killed the horse.
But like archi said, they never explained what Starbuck was, so those rules didn't apply. At all. Those truths still held true for the humans (and cylons for that matter). Actually, in one of the later episodes, Tigh found Roslin and Adama together, and they were still drinking that algae, so it's not like they completely forgot about it. But even more than that, in the final episodes, it wasn't about the food or the water, it became about the Galactica itself. The "horse" in a very real way if you want to throw that analogy in there. Their horse was dying, and in fact did die. What do you with a dead horse, no shelter and limited supplies when you come upon a paradise you've been searching for for x number of years?

And the Cylons were in a similar situation facing their extinction.

It's easy to say that Starbuck just pointed the way to Earth. Then you could ask the next question...why didn't she do that from the beginning? But that wasn't the point. And that is the point.

There was no Kaiser Soze moment.
As an aside, I hated that movie and thought that "plot twist" (is it really a twist if you see it coming from a mile away?) betrayed the character it was supposed to represent. I watched it the other day because Bryan Singer was in the news again talking about his BSG movie. I kinda liked X2, but absolutely hated Valkyrie (A WWII movie in Germany in English? No thanks) and thought Superman Returns was boring/plot-holey. Judging by those 4 movies, I really hope someone takes BSG away from him.

But like archi said, they never explained what Starbuck was, so those rules didn't apply. At all. Those truths still held true for the humans (and cylons for that matter). Actually, in one of the later episodes, Tigh found Roslin and Adama together, and they were still drinking that algae, so it's not like they completely forgot about it. But even more than that, in the final episodes, it wasn't about the food or the water, it became about the Galactica itself. The "horse" in a very real way if you want to throw that analogy in there. Their horse was dying, and in fact did die. What do you with a dead horse, no shelter and limited supplies when you come upon a paradise you've been searching for for x number of years?

And the Cylons were in a similar situation facing their extinction.

It's easy to say that Starbuck just pointed the way to Earth. Then you could ask the next question...why didn't she do that from the beginning? But that wasn't the point. And that is the point.


You are taking that analogy way too literally. Its not about the food and water. Its about all the little details in the fictional universe. Like creating a universe where ships have ftl drives, can jump away and barely leave a trail. You can't go 4 seasons in that universe and suddenly introduce an unknown character who can simply break all the rules and simply show them to Earth. It doesn't matter if we don't know who or what that character is, its the fact that she doesn't fit within that universe that they've created.

I completely understand that the Galactica was falling apart ... they pretty much pounded that over our heads for the entire final season. That is a gross simplification of the horse analogy. The real horse was technology. They killed the horse by deciding (without a fight from anybody) to destroy all remaining ships. Its just not plausible that all of these people would just unanimously give up on those other ships without a fight. Especially when all of them were burned in a similar situation on New Caprica.

You are taking that analogy way too literally. Its not about the food and water. Its about all the little details in the fictional universe. Like creating a universe where ships have ftl drives, can jump away and barely leave a trail. You can't go 4 seasons in that universe and suddenly introduce an unknown character who can simply break all the rules and simply show them to Earth. It doesn't matter if we don't know who or what that character is, its the fact that she doesn't fit within that universe that they've created.

I completely understand that the Galactica was falling apart ... they pretty much pounded that over our heads for the entire final season. That is a gross simplification of the horse analogy. The real horse was technology. They killed the horse by deciding (without a fight from anybody) to destroy all remaining ships. Its just not plausible that all of these people would just unanimously give up on those other ships without a fight. Especially when all of them were burned in a similar situation on New Caprica.

You know what? It's hard to argue with those points, although I will submit that the Galactica falling apart was a key plot element during the final season and needed as much attention as it got; it wasn't overwhelming to me (and it was cool to see the vfx they whipped up for the ftl drive). And, in a way, I can sympathize with those who felt that Moore simply "mcguffin'ed" his way out of several troublesome plotlines. I get that.

But I gotta' tell ya'..... That final episode, with all its faults, has to be one of the most powerful hours of TV I've ever seen. In terms of simply moving me, it was unparalleled with the exception being, maybe, the first episode "33". Nice bookends. I've posted this before: I've watched the finale several times (it has the honor of a permanent place on my DVR's expansion drive, until it crashes) and it never fails to move me. Bear McCready's remarkable full orchestral score has a lot to do with it of course. But dadgum if I don't get a little misty with a lump in my throat every time I watch it, even though I can recite the dialog by heart at this point. How many TV shows have ever had the power to move me like that? Ummm, I'll get back to you on that as soon as I think of one. ;)

You are taking that analogy way too literally. Its not about the food and water. Its about all the little details in the fictional universe. Like creating a universe where ships have ftl drives, can jump away and barely leave a trail. You can't go 4 seasons in that universe and suddenly introduce an unknown character who can simply break all the rules and simply show them to Earth. It doesn't matter if we don't know who or what that character is, its the fact that she doesn't fit within that universe that they've created.
Yeah, I did take it literally didn't I? :p But it still sort of works. BSG is one of the few shows which actually did show us all of the minutiae of everyday life. We got to see what it took for these people to survive. Hell, we even got to see the bathroom (and people using it). But that was one aspect. You say that Starbuck didn't fit with the universe that we saw, but she did...we simply had never seen it that blatantly.

In the very first episode we saw Baltar repent and just as he did, Roslin makes the decision to shoot down the Olympic Carrier. You can make the argument that it was the logical choice (and it was), but the question of "What if?" is already introduced in the very first episode. In the Hand of God episode, Baltar miraculously chooses the right building to bomb, and we see Head-6 telling him it was God's plan, and he even says he's an instrument of God and that that was the only logical explanation. Of course you could argue it was dumb luck and his ego was out of control, but the possibility that something else was in play was there. And then there's Roslin and all the visions of Pithia that she had (without knowing anything about the mythology). Again, you could argue it was just hallucinations, but how did she see things that had not yet come to pass? The question is there once more. And of course in season 3 we saw all the ships lose/regain power.

Starbuck wasn't an anomaly. She was simply the strongest manifestation of something that had previously been strongly suggested at.

I completely understand that the Galactica was falling apart ... they pretty much pounded that over our heads for the entire final season. That is a gross simplification of the horse analogy. The real horse was technology. They killed the horse by deciding (without a fight from anybody) to destroy all remaining ships. Its just not plausible that all of these people would just unanimously give up on those other ships without a fight. Especially when all of them were burned in a similar situation on New Caprica.
Granted, they probably should have spent at least another minute on that, but why isn't it plausible? The Galactica was dead. The same people who mutinied/supported the mutiny now had just three choices (along with everyone else). Go off on their own with no protection, no fuel and no supplies (remember, many of those ships got their food and water from the Galactica). Go off with the Basestar which is now being controlled by the toasters (and even if human models had stayed on board, they'd still be cylons). Settle on the planet and make the best of a craptastic situation. After years of being stuck in a tube or living on the harsh New Caprica, their choice makes sense to me (especially for people who had to work on the mining ship or the sewage ship or the food processing ship etc). My only gripe would be them giving up a warm place to sleep, but they had limited fuel that probably wouldn't have lasted long anyway, and I'm guessing they were all given the same kinds of tents that we saw. I suppose they could have fought for their ships, but what good would it have done?

Well...

The easiest and simplest concept is "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it!"

That is why Cavil keeps asking everyone what they've learned....but no one has learned the way Cavil wants them to, therefore "It has all happened before...." keeps coming back.

I find it an obvious message but without details.

You are taking that analogy way too literally. Its not about the food and water. Its about all the little details in the fictional universe. Like creating a universe where ships have ftl drives, can jump away and barely leave a trail. You can't go 4 seasons in that universe and suddenly introduce an unknown character who can simply break all the rules and simply show them to Earth. It doesn't matter if we don't know who or what that character is, its the fact that she doesn't fit within that universe that they've created.

I completely understand that the Galactica was falling apart ... they pretty much pounded that over our heads for the entire final season. That is a gross simplification of the horse analogy. The real horse was technology. They killed the horse by deciding (without a fight from anybody) to destroy all remaining ships. Its just not plausible that all of these people would just unanimously give up on those other ships without a fight. Especially when all of them were burned in a similar situation on New Caprica.

I REALLY liked your Ursula K. LeGuinn quote on the previous page, Ed.

I've been a fan of hers ever since I first read "The Ones who walk away from Omelas" many moons ago in college (one of the most powerfully moving short stories ever written, in my opinion). Not being much of a fiction reader, I haven't actually READ any of her other fiction, but I've seen her name in a few TV and movie credits, I think.

However, I disagree with your interpretations above, somewhat.

First, I think the "new Starbuck" in Season 4 was just a part of that extended, faith-based mythology you either had to accept or reject. You chose to reject it. I found it kinda cool. Even if you don't believe in God or heaven or eternal life, etc., it's still possible that by some sort of extreme will combined with perhaps the intervention of some unseen/unknown higher life form, she was brought back temporarily just to serve that ONE purpose. And I just thought the way she sort of just "disappeared" had a really neat feel to it.

As for them sending ALL their ships into the sun. I'm not sure, had it been ME, if I wouldn't have kept at least one or two of the ones in the best shape around for "just-in-case" scenarios. But it was them making a statement, that they were FINISHED RUNNING, and had found a HOME, and were going to set up roots and stay there, and had no further use for those ships. Also, by doing that, they definitely indicated to the remaining Cylons that they certainly WEREN'T any ongoing threat.

Finally, I think A LOT of the answers to the questions about the Cylons and the belief in a single God, and possibly even why some of them got some compassion at the end and decided to become "humanized" are awaiting those of you who have yet to see the "Caprica" pilot.

Frankly, I think "Caprica" explains MORE about the origin and genesis of the Cylon consciousness and state-of-mind than everything else combined, so far, even though it ends very early in that process.
Jeff

Brother Cavil sure is a trip. He gets the best lines. The scene with him and the dark haired 6 in bed was hilarious.

I completely understand that the Galactica was falling apart ... they pretty much pounded that over our heads for the entire final season. That is a gross simplification of the horse analogy. The real horse was technology. They killed the horse by deciding (without a fight from anybody) to destroy all remaining ships. Its just not plausible that all of these people would just unanimously give up on those other ships without a fight. Especially when all of them were burned in a similar situation on New Caprica.

After years of pure torture and running, they WOULD give up the ships. Ships would be used to travel, run or (as a long shot) give away their position to the remaining Cylons.

The survivors of the 12 colonies were searching for a home, not a way to search indefinitely.

The Humans had learned (the hard way) that their technology in the form of the Cylons had brought about their almost complete destruction.

What purpose would the technology serve if not to begin the whole turn of events again (which the show hinted it in its final shots).

"All of this has happened before and will happen again." -understand this or suffer forever, it doesn't get much simpler.

Brother Cavil sure is a trip. He gets the best lines. The scene with him and the dark haired 6 in bed was hilarious.

Some where in the complete BSG commentary, or a internet interview (maybe both), it was stated that Dean Stockwell was playing Brother John Cavil as if the show was a Comedy.

Some where in the complete BSG commentary, or a internet interview (maybe both), it was stated that Dean Stockwell was playing Brother John Cavil as if the show was a Comedy.

Depending on your interpretation, it WAS a comedy -- a VERY DARK comedy -- the final conversation between the "two angels" and the little "dancing robots" was proof of that.
Jeff

What's up with SyFy? I know Caprica is premiering on Jan 22, wouldn't a BSG marathon or re-showing of "The Plan" be a great way to promote the new series? Maybe thay want people to buy "The Complete Battle Star Galactica", like I did.

What's up with SyFy? I know Caprica is premiering on Jan 22, wouldn't a BSG marathon or re-showing of "The Plan" be a great way to promote the new series?

Ask and you get it, "The Plan" will re-air today at 4:30 pm on SyFy.

I am watching "The Plan" right now and I cannot see anything about any plan at all. This movie just seems to be the beginning of BSG (i.e. the destruction of the human planets) from the Cylons point of view.

I was hoping to see a drama of how the Cylons planned the destruction of humans! Why they decided not to create "Nuclear Winter" on all the human planets? Why they decided not to destroy the space fleet before launching attacks on the human worlds, etc.?

This could have been a intriguing drama with parallels to how/why Hitler planned his European strategies.

Anyone who might be missing Lucy Lawless since BSG finished its run, I'm just now catching "Spartacus" on Starz (second episode, I think) and she's not only in it, she's showing skin actually topless for a bit in tonight's episode, and I was pleasantly surprised at what I saw for a woman who's soon to be 42.

I don't particularly care for her with red hair, but she's still quite attractive... I know we spent most of our energy drooling over 6 and 8, but 3 was no puppydog, either.
Jeff

I am watching "The Plan" right now and I cannot see anything about any plan at all. This movie just seems to be the beginning of BSG (i.e. the destruction of the human planets) from the Cylons point of view.

I was hoping to see a drama of how the Cylons planned the destruction of humans! Why they decided not to create "Nuclear Winter" on all the human planets? Why they decided not to destroy the space fleet before launching attacks on the human worlds, etc.?


I think we all did. The more I think about "The Plan", the more I think it was basically just another episode of the show put together cheaply and quickly primarily with outtakes and re-used footage. I'm not sure if SyFy actually appropriated a full budget to this "telemovie", or how much second unit photography and post took place after the show wrapped its official production run. It could have just been a cash grab, similar to selling a separate DVD set for each half season.

TV Notes
Exclusive: 'Battlestar Galactica' sets up a Young Adama spinoff
By Maureen Ryan, Chicago Tribune's 'The Watcher' Blog - July 27th, 2010

Those who've been hoping for a new chapter of the "Battlestar Galactica" story may get their wish.

An online series called "Blood & Chrome" is in the works, one that would follow the experiences of a young William "Husker" Adama in the first Cylon War.

According to Mark Stern, Syfy's executive vice president of original programming and the co-head of original content for Universal Cable Productions, "Battlestar Galactica" and "Caprica" co-executive producer Michael Taylor will write the the script for the new venture.

"Blood & Chrome" is "about a young man's initiation into war: both the realities of war as fought by soldiers on the ground (and in Battlestars and Vipers), and the somewhat less real version portrayed in the media," according to Taylor.

"Blood & Chrome" would consist of nine or 10 episodes of nine or 10 minutes each, and it would make use of cutting-edge digital technology and special effects to depict the Cylon War. If it is greenlit to production, it will be filmed using green screens and virtual sets, not unlike Syfy's "Sanctuary" or James Cameron's "Avatar." Before "Battlestar Galactica" ended, high-tech scans were made of all the show's sets, so that the special-effects team will be able to re-create them (possibly even in 3D).

"I've seen the virtual, 3D version of CIC ['Battlestar's' Combat Information Center] and it's pretty damn cool," Taylor said. "And yet the movie isn't confined to Galactica. Far from it. It's a story that will take us to new corners of the 'Battlestar' world (or worlds), and yet it aims to be a very contemporary war movie in a lot of ways. I would say I'm thinking as much of Afghanistan and Iraq--the reality of 'Hurt Locker,' Sebastian Junger's 'Restrepo,' and similar movies--as I am about about the largely implied past of 'Battlestar.'"

Though Taylor said he'll strive for the kind of emotional engagement that was the hallmark of "Battlestar," which ended in 2009, expect lots of of cliffhangers and visceral suspense as well. "We're not going to be shying away from R-rated blood and guts and sex," Taylor noted. "Because this is initially meant to air online, we pretty much have no restrictions in that department."

It's not known yet if "Blood & Chrome" would star Nico Cortez, the actor cast as young Adama in "Razor," a previous "Battlestar Galactica" movie. There may be one other character from "Razor" in the new online series, but it would feature a mostly new cast.

If "Blood & Chrome" is successful, it could be the first a series of similar projects, and if it's judged very successful, it could even act as a backdoor pilot for a TV show set in that war-torn "BSG" era.

http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2010/07/battlestar-galactica.html

I'm excited about this one ! Maybe they'll have Starbuck reappear in that time period and give young Adama a special message. Then, on the last episode, Starbuck disappears into thin air and young Adama is mind wiped. Sounds like a really, really cool story.

I'm excited about this one ! Maybe they'll have Starbuck reappear in that time period and give young Adama a special message. Then, on the last episode, Starbuck disappears into thin air and young Adama is mind wiped. Sounds like a really, really cool story.

Ha ha, that made me smile. I think I note a hint of sarcasm.

After 'Caprica's disappointing showing (too much talkie; not enough boomie! or Boomer...), I figured they might revisit the war. People like war, as long as they're not actually in one.

Interesting to see how they're going to monetize this.

Sounds cool, but I am not normally I fan of webisodes. I would probably wait until they have all aired so I can watch them back to back, instead of in weekly 10 minute installments

Sounds cool, but I am not normally I fan of webisodes. I would probably wait until they have all aired so I can watch them back to back, instead of in weekly 10 minute installments

They'll package them up in a DVD/BD later, of course. Probably sell in the $20 range, be my guess. While they're primarily doing it to drive traffic to the SyFy website where there are some advertising dollars at play, DVD's and overseas sales will probably account for most all the revenue. Of course, it could also serve as a backdoor pilot for another series if these webisodes are well received. Perhaps a new way of testing the waters before committing. They didn't greenlight the re-imagined series until they had produced and aired the opening miniseries and saw how well received it was.

They'll package them up in a DVD/BD later, of course. Probably sell in the $20 range, be my guess. While they're primarily doing it to drive traffic to the SyFy website where there are some advertising dollars at play, DVD's and overseas sales will probably account for most all the revenue.

Hopefully they plan ahead better than they did for The Face of the Enemy. :mad:

I think I note a hint of sarcasm.

You must have awesome powers of perception. :)

I'm much more interested in this then seeing Caprica

Hopefully they plan ahead better than they did for The Face of the Enemy. :mad:

It is a puzzler why 'Face of the Enemy' was omitted from the "complete set". Considering how important that was to Gaeta's motivations during the mutiny arc, it was a pretty glaring omission. It was essentially another bottle episode of the series when you add up the total time. Especially since they included the previous year's group of webisodes, didn't they?

It is a puzzler why 'Face of the Enemy' was omitted from the "complete set". Considering how important that was to Gaeta's motivations during the mutiny arc, it was a pretty glaring omission. It was essentially another bottle episode of the series when you add up the total time. Especially since they included the previous year's group of webisodes, didn't they?

Exactly. It really annoyed me when I started watching that arc in the show. I didn't keep tabs on things like webisodes being released online that were missing. The way it was played in the show, I kept expecting Gaeta's motivation to be revealed at some point, instead of just hinted at. It was very frustrating not knowing that I was completely missing relevant information.

It's a moot point now. I just hope that in the future, other shows avoid this. I'm all for supplemental material showing up online (like Lost mobisodes and ARGs, or even the Razor flashbacks), but information that is needed to understand the plot/motivations should be limited to proper episodes.

That was only done because of the long breaks they were taking between seasons. That is not a tactic you will see 99% of other serialized shows take because it makes you lose audience when they cannot figure out what is going on and why.

It is a puzzler why 'Face of the Enemy' was omitted from the "complete set". Considering how important that was to Gaeta's motivations during the mutiny arc, it was a pretty glaring omission. It was essentially another bottle episode of the series when you add up the total time. Especially since they included the previous year's group of webisodes, didn't they?

Exactly. It really annoyed me when I started watching that arc in the show. I didn't keep tabs on things like webisodes being released online that were missing. The way it was played in the show, I kept expecting Gaeta's motivation to be revealed at some point, instead of just hinted at. It was very frustrating not knowing that I was completely missing relevant information.

It's a moot point now. I just hope that in the future, other shows avoid this. I'm all for supplemental material showing up online (like Lost mobisodes and ARGs, or even the Razor flashbacks), but information that is needed to understand the plot/motivations should be limited to proper episodes.

Gaeta's motivation was very simple. He was a patriot, loyal to the Colonies / Humans only. The top military and political leaders on Galactica were in a truce/treaty with the Cylons. In his eyes this was collaborating with the enemy.

Gaeta's motivation was very simple. He was a patriot, loyal to the Colonies / Humans only. The top military and political leaders on Galactica were in a truce/treaty with the Cylons. In his eyes this was collaborating with the enemy.

It's been a little while since I watched the episode, but I remember one thing that kinda confused me when I watched it:
Gaeta is interrogating Baltar when Baltar tells Gaeta that he knows a secret about him. After he whispers it to Gaeta, Gaeta stabs him with a pen and tries to kill him.

This makes absolutely no sense without Face of the Enemy. They set it up, but never explain what set Gaeta off in the show. For someone as usually easy going as Gaeta, something this out of character should have been explained in the show.

It's been a little while since I watched the episode, but I remember one thing that kinda confused me when I watched it:
Gaeta is interrogating Baltar when Baltar tells Gaeta that he knows a secret about him. After he whispers it to Gaeta, Gaeta stabs him with a pen and tries to kill him.

This makes absolutely no sense without Face of the Enemy. They set it up, but never explain what set Gaeta off in the show. For someone as usually easy going as Gaeta, something this out of character should have been explained in the show.

Yep. There's not enough reason or motivation for Gaeta to go full-bore mutinous without the shocking events in TFOTE. He wasn't the type to blatantly disobey orders and defy the Old Man like say, Helo. On New Caprica, he ended up being a true patriot, and suffered greatly for it. To suddenly discover he had trusted someone who betrayed him so horrifically, and that he was indirectly responsible for so many deaths, just "broke" him. He never would have mutinied without that extra kick.

So what happened in the Face of the Enemy? I never saw it and I agree, I found Gaeta's actions in the mutiny arc to be out of character for him.

Gaeta was lost in space with a Sharon model, who he loved very very much. They had a small crew and were running out of food and Oxygen. This Sharon model was killing off the members so She and Gaeta could live. Gaeta came to realize no matter how loving/friendly a cyclon could be it was going to alway be evil.
This also showed Gaeta making out with the guy later showed in the show but they never coved the love affair on TV.

That is the jist of it,if you get a chance watch it.

Gaeta was lost in space with a Sharon model, who he loved very very much. They had a small crew and were running out of food and Oxygen. This Sharon model was killing off the members so She and Gaeta could live. Gaeta came to realize no matter how loving/friendly a cyclon could be it was going to alway be evil.
This also showed Gaeta making out with the guy later showed in the show but they never coved the love affair on TV.

That is the jist of it,if you get a chance watch it.

It was actually a little more than that. There were actually two Sharon models along with Gaeta and some other crew on a Raptor that was damaged. People began being killed, some while they slept, including one of the Sharons. The surviving Sharon was the one that, during the occupation on New Caprica, claimed to be helping members of the resistance escape detection and capture.

Gaeta furnished her a list of those folks, trusting her to help them as she promised. In reality, she was a "double agent" who had everyone on the list killed. Baltar referenced this list when he whispered in Gaeta's ear during that episode referenced above, which is why Gaeta attacked him. This, along with killing the other crew members on the Raptor so Gaeta could live, sent him over the edge and motivated his intense anti-Cylon passion that culminated in the mutiny.

It was also revealed that one of the bridge crew had became Gaeta's lover. This crewman sided with Adama during the mutiny and Gaeta was forced to arrest him (and may have had him killed; can't remember).

I know it was more I was trying to entice him to watch it. Sorry force of habit on not giving spoilers.