Does the HLRXX67W have firewire inputs but no outputs? With the output, you could record to DVHS.

Originally posted by UCSB
I was looking at Mits last week, but don't want to bias your view one way or the other. Also, ask a couple of the Magnolia sales people what they think.

Thanks (as always!) for your thoughts. I did ask some of the folks (now buddies!) at MagHiFi about the Mits/Sammy comparison, and what feedback they got from their customers, and about the only significant thing they commented on was the glary screen of the Mits; and that people with locations where external light was a problem definitely went with Samsung, but that persons with low light environment liked the Mits. But as has been commented on by others, the glare screen can be removed and may in fact not be on the new 1080p sets.

In any event, I would be interested in your 'bias' (i.e. opinion). I will of course make up my own mind, but I do find it helpful to hear from respected AVS'ers; at least it clues me in on what to look for that I may not think of.

Can someone tell me how taking a 720p signal or a 1080i signal and converting it to a 1080p could result in a better picture.

If ABC is sending Monday Night Football out at 720p, how can electronic processing of any type make the picture better than what is being sent out?

Originally posted by htwaits
Here are the Mitsubishi announcements:

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages/mitsubishi05san.htm
http://www.hometheatermag.com/news/041305mitsubishi/
http://twice.com/article/CA525611.html?display=News
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/050408/85012.html?.v=1
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/050408/85013.html?.v=1

Here is the AVS thread:

New Mitsubishi 1080 DLP Announced (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=528548&highlight=WD73727)

Man! How the hell did I miss all that?!

I just came back from spending a good hour at my local retailer that sells all of these DLP's and other nice TV's.

Unscientifically, I'd say the best PQ I saw out all of them were the 87 series 50 inch Sammy DLP (whatever the most current is), the most current Toshiba model at the 60 inch size, and two of the Mitsubishi's.

For whatever reason, I thought the Sammy 87 was the best out of all of them. Noticeably so.

Even at 50 inches in screen size, I stepped back about 20 feet and it was still as clear and detailed as could be. It was like looking out of a window. I couldn't say the same for virtually all the other displays nearby, including the Toshibas and Mitsubishis.

The store had one signal split over about 20 TV's, so obviously that has to be taken into consideration. That just makes me even more awestruck to imagine how good the PQ would look like without a watered down signal.

I really was smitten with how great the Sammy 50-87 "Captain Kirk" TV looked, in terms of aesthetic appearances, form, and function. I almost bought it today, quite honestly.

I can't wait to see what the 88 looks like in July! I may just have to go that route and buy an AV rack instead of a stand.

WOW!

It's really going to be interesting to see how Mitsubishi's (and other brands') offerings stack up against what I saw today.

Originally posted by Ronald K
Can someone tell me how taking a 720p signal or a 1080i signal and converting it to a 1080p could result in a better picture.

If ABC is sending Monday Night Football out at 720p, how can electronic processing of any type make the picture better than what is being sent out?

Well, a 720p signal is going to look best on a 720p TV, a 1080i is going to look best (and better than 720p) on a 1080p TV.

Personally, I don't understand the "is 1080p worth it" arguments. It is, end of story. Higher resolution = better.

You can make the argument that it's not worth the price, though it looks like the prices aren't going to be _that_ much higher. I would not buy a 720p tv right now, though I'm not that sensitive to price within reason. Were I a deal hunter I would consider one for sure.

Originally posted by jvrobert
Well, a 720p signal is going to look best on a 720p TV, a 1080i is going to look best (and better than 720p) on a 1080p TV.

Personally, I don't understand the "is 1080p worth it" arguments. It is, end of story. Higher resolution = better.

You can make the argument that it's not worth the price, though it looks like the prices aren't going to be _that_ much higher. I would not buy a 720p tv right now, though I'm not that sensitive to price within reason. Were I a deal hunter I would consider one for sure.

I did not think that 1080p is a "higher resolution" than 1080i. I thought it was the same. Also the number of frames per second is not increased over 1080i. The amount of information on the screen in quantity and frequency per second is identical.

Since 1080p is achieved by processing 1080i info along with a wobbling trick, I for the life of me can't see how the resulting image is improved.

And if you are correct, the 720p signals will not look as good. Hasn't the holy grail around this forum been to provide the native resolution to your set? Isn't that why 720p plasma owners have been upset with having to feed their sets 1080i signals which need further processing to generate a degraded 720p picture?

What is the difference in going in the opposite direction?

Maybe this next generation DLPs will produce a better picture because of improved contrast or a faster wheel. But I don't buy that it will be better because of taking a 1080i signal and converting it to 1080p.

Originally posted by Ronald K
But I don't buy that it will be better because of taking a 1080i signal and converting it to 1080p.

Do you believe that 480i, de-interlaced to 480p (EDTV), looks better than un-modified 480i (SDTV)?

As I understand it, some of the new HLRs will only have HDMI and not DVI inputs. If I have say a cable box that has DVI but not HDMI (and assume I don't want to use component), and if I want to run sound directly through the TV, is there any way of doing this? I can get a DVI-HDMI cable, but how do I get the audio in? Am I right that there's no audio input on the TV that matches up with the HDMI input, because it's expecting the audio to come with the HDMI?

Originally posted by DanielPZ
As I understand it, some of the new HLRs will only have HDMI and not DVI inputs. If I have say a cable box that has DVI but not HDMI (and assume I don't want to use component), and if I want to run sound directly through the TV, is there any way of doing this? I can get a DVI-HDMI cable, but how do I get the audio in? Am I right that there's no audio input on the TV that matches up with the HDMI input, because it's expecting the audio to come with the HDMI?

Think it depends on what flavor DVI you have.

http://www.datapro.net/techinfo/dvi_info.html

You can use the DVI-HDMI cable as you indicated and then there is L/R audio input that corresponds with the HDMI input. Look at the HLR5677 manual on the Samsung website, it covers what you are talking about.

Originally posted by millerwill
Do you believe that 480i, de-interlaced to 480p (EDTV), looks better than un-modified 480i (SDTV)?

Of course it does. 1080p is going to be a better PQ. End of story.

Originally posted by Ronald K
Maybe this next generation DLPs will produce a better picture because of improved contrast or a faster wheel. But I don't buy that it will be better because of taking a 1080i signal and converting it to 1080p.
A 1080p micro display will have 2,073,600 pixels on the screen instead of the current 720p displays which project 921,600 pixels. To know what that will look like will require some observation time with a variety of inputs. Maybe your doubts will be relevant when 1080p DLP sets are in the stores.

Originally posted by blackdiamond
Does the HLRXX67W have firewire inputs but no outputs? With the output, you could record to DVHS.

1394 (firewire) by definition is two-way. You might want to look at the Draft HLR5688w manual linked in post #1. The manual goes into quite a bit of detail regarding D-Net (what Samsung is calling 1394) starting on page 107 of the manual. You can link a number of devices together. :)

Via the global download site, Samsung just put up the HLRxx67 Series Quick Guide (http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/EM/200504/20050425165730953/EN/main.htm). Looks like there is quite a bit of good information.

What does this line in the Quick Guide mean to us?
"Digital Input (HDMI/DVI IN) jack"
I thought there was no DVI in.

Just that you need a conversion cable or adapter if you are going from DVI to HDMI.

Originally posted by millerwill
Do you believe that 480i, de-interlaced to 480p (EDTV), looks better than un-modified 480i (SDTV)?

What format exists on a DVD? 480p or 480i?

Originally posted by Ronald K
What format exists on a DVD? 480p or 480i?

I believe that DVD's are 480i, and 'progressive scan' DVD players de-interlace them to 480p. (But more knowledgeable folks please speak up!)

Originally posted by htwaits
A 1080p micro display will have 2,073,600 pixels on the screen instead of the current 720p displays which project 921,600 pixels. To know what that will look like will require some observation time with a variety of inputs. Maybe your doubts will be relevant when 1080p DLP sets are in the stores.

How many pixels does a 1080i set have?

Edited to add that I believe the 1080i sets have the exact same resolution as the 1080p sets.

Originally posted by jvrobert
Well, a 720p signal is going to look best on a 720p TV, a 1080i is going to look best (and better than 720p) on a 1080p TV.

Personally, I don't understand the "is 1080p worth it" arguments. It is, end of story. Higher resolution = better.

You can make the argument that it's not worth the price, though it looks like the prices aren't going to be _that_ much higher. I would not buy a 720p tv right now, though I'm not that sensitive to price within reason. Were I a deal hunter I would consider one for sure.

Aren't you contradicting yourself? In the first line you say a 720p signal looks best on a 720p TV, but then you say "I don't understand the 'is 1080p worth it' arguments. It is, end of story. Higher resolution = better." Based on your first statement, this second statement is not correct, at least for ABC, FOX, ESPN and any other station using 720p. However, others have said that even a 720p signal will look better at 1080p. Is that what you meant to say?

Originally posted by Ronald K
How many pixels does a 1080i set have?

Edited to add that I believe the 1080i sets have the exact same resolution as the 1080p sets.

What "1080i" sets are you referring to?

Many people viewed 1080P next to 720P sets at CES in Vegas and I viewed them via a slideshow and the level of details demonstarted an obvious improvement and I was a doubter until I saw it first hand. 1080P provides double the pixels as HTwaits mentioned above but it's believed it'll take a larger panel to make the difference obvious.

A few months ago I posted an article by an AV engineer that explained the difference tween 1080i versus 1080P but I cannot recall where I found it. 1080P is considered Ultra HD and rewards will be seen with Blu-Ray DVD and next Generation Gaming platforms which will be HD level. I'll try and find that article and return with an edit.

Here's the article by a good geek that really makes it understandable if you take the time to read the two pages - it makes alot of sense.

http://news.designtechnica.com/talkback47.html

Originally posted by Ronald K
How many pixels does a 1080i set have?

Edited to add that I believe the 1080i sets have the exact same resolution as the 1080p sets.
I don't know of any 1080i micro chip (LCD, DLP, LCoS, etc) RPTV sets. They are all progressive.

CRT based RPTV sets don't have pixels.

Originally posted by westa6969
1080P is considered Ultra HD and rewards will be seen with Blu-Ray DVD and next Generation Gaming platforms which will be HD level.
From what I've read Blu-Ray and HD-DVD or a combination of both is expected to read 1080i data from their respective disks. At least that's what I understand. ;)

With "good" de-interlacing the resulting image is expected to be as good as a 1080p source. I have no idea if that's correct. :rolleyes:

From the online manuals, it seems clear VGA (MCE2005) 1080p NATIVE @60hz is supported. This is great for XBOX2 and MCE2005.

DVI would be nice, but to be honest, at 60hz and that big of screen thte quality of the filters makes mroe differnce then DVI

^exactly. I have a PS2 and I plan (I hope) to get an HDTV sometime this summer. I won't be too worried if I notice some lag with the PS2 games cause the PS3 games will be perfect on it. They will be designed to be played on an HDTV via digital video/audio cables

Originally posted by Ronald K
How many pixels does a 1080i set have?

Edited to add that I believe the 1080i sets have the exact same resolution as the 1080p sets.

I think you are getting a few things mixed up. There is the format that data is transmitted to the set in and then there is the format that the set displays it in.

For the time being, and for some time into the future, there is no 1080p transmission of data. There is the possibility that HDDVD/BluRay will have 1080p, but the general consensus seems to be that it will be 1080i (don't forget that virtually all movies are filmed at 24 frames per second, so 1080i can handle all the information from a movie at 1080i).

Now, with regard to how a set displays the data it receives. I believe that all current sets refresh the image on the screen 60 times every second. In older CRT sets the screen was refreshed 60 times every second, but only every other line was refreshed. Thus interlacing or i. This worked because the phosphors in the set glowed (gave off light) for some short period of time and thus to your eye it looked like the entire screen was lit up all the time.

A few years ago progressive (or p) CRTs came out which lit up every line without skipping a line (your computer monitor). This makes the picture look better. However from a TV standpoint the data coming from the television transmitter was still an interlaced signal. The new sets had to put this data back together which it did with a deinterlacer. Depending on how good the deinterlacer is (and there is a whole area here that discusses these issues) you will not know that an image is being processed by the deinterlacer.

Finally, there is a great deal being made of the various micro-display types (DLP, LED, SXRD, etc) being progressive. By their very nature they are all progressive. Within that 1/60 of a second all the pixels are lit up. I do not believe there are any 1080i sets only 1080i input signals which are then processed so that they can be displayed at 1080p.

I hope this helps, :)

Hey guys, I'll be attending the Home Entertainment Show here in NYC starting Thurs (4/28).

I started a thread for people here interested in the Samsung 1080p RPTV's to post questions for me to ask the Samsung Rep's @ the show.

Here's the link to my thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=533787

okay...if current high def signals (ESPN, FOX, ABC) are 720 what is the point of the 1080. Also, for non high def tv will the 1080 produce a better picture than the 720. I think that is what a few of us are getting at. Outside of the high def world will there be a noticeable difference between the 1080 and 720???

Originally posted by 8inchworm
okay...if current high def signals (ESPN, FOX, ABC) are 720 what is the point of the 1080. Also, for non high def tv will the 1080 produce a better picture than the 720. I think that is what a few of us are getting at. Outside of the high def world will there be a noticeable difference between the 1080 and 720???

That answer is very easy, you'll see a BIG time difference from 720p to 1080p.

Originally posted by 8inchworm
okay...if current high def signals (ESPN, FOX, ABC) are 720 what is the point of the 1080. Also, for non high def tv will the 1080 produce a better picture than the 720. I think that is what a few of us are getting at. Outside of the high def world will there be a noticeable difference between the 1080 and 720???
Presumably at some point the program providers will upgrade their transmission equipment, and the cable/sat companies will increase the bandwidth allocated to HD. (But I don't think it will happen in my lifetime.)

I've added the HLRxx67W Quick Reference Guide to POST #1. Thanks Schaffer970!

Originally posted by 8inchworm
okay...if current high def signals (ESPN, FOX, ABC) are 720 what is the point of the 1080. Also, for non high def tv will the 1080 produce a better picture than the 720. I think that is what a few of us are getting at. Outside of the high def world will there be a noticeable difference between the 1080 and 720???

I compiled a list of HD stations for my own use. It is below. Most, almost all, HD material is in 1080i. So most HD material will make full use of the 1080p capabilities of the new sets.

=======

HD Content

My Comcast cable line-up (SF Bay Area):

ABC – 720p
CBS – 1080i
NBC – 1080i
FOX – 720p
PBS – 1080i
Discovery HD – 1080i
INHD – 1080i
INHD2 – 1080i
ESPN – 720p (1080p in future)

HBO – 1080i
Starz! HD – 1080i
Showtime – 1080i
Cinemax HD – 1080i


Other networks:

WB – 1080i
UPN – 1080i
Paramount HDMovies – 1080i
HDNet – 1080i
HDNet Movies – 1080i
ESPN2 – 720p
Move Channel HD – 1080i
Playboy – 1080i
Spice – 1080i
NBA HDTV – 1080i
Bravo HD – 1080i


Other Providers:

Dish Network – 720p, 1080i
DirectTV – 720p, 1080i
Voom – 1080i


Source (http://hdtvtechno.netfirms.com/)

I've added the following question to the open issues section in POST #1.

5. Will Samsung provide any method (USB port/PC, Memory Cards) for customers to apply firmware upgrades to the new 1080p HDTVs? There are two other manufacturers that currently provide this capability for their DLP sets.

Originally posted by AkaStp
How can you tell which is the old which is the new version? I purchased an XBox HD pack from Circuit City today for my son's XBox and it doesn't look much like in the photos on the CC or BB web site or the MS XBox site.

If they look like the cables from Monster cable for the XBOX, then you have the new version. The old version had a brick that was connected to the XBOX, while connecting a seperate set of component cables (and the optical cable) to the brick.

This is the old version. (http://home.comcast.net/~victorx10/xboxhd.jpg) They basically removed the brick, and turned the pack into a cable, with an optical out right on the AV connector that you plug on the XBOX.

It seems that there is some debate as to the usefulness of 1080p depending on the screen size and viewing distance. Does anyone have an opinion as to what screen size and viewing distance does 1080p begin to make a difference?

Originally posted by RMSko
It seems that there is some debate as to the usefulness of 1080p depending on the screen size and viewing distance. Does anyone have an opinion as to what screen size and viewing distance does 1080p begin to make a difference?

I think the answer has to depend on how good your own eye sight is and how far away you intend to have your display. Pretty subjective, imho. I can't see any reason NOT to go 1080p if you have the choice.

Originally posted by RMSko
It seems that there is some debate as to the usefulness of 1080p depending on the screen size and viewing distance. Does anyone have an opinion as to what screen size and viewing distance does 1080p begin to make a difference?

The general 'rule of thumb' is that one should sit no closer than 2x(screen diagonal) for a 720p set, i.e., before resolution or other artifacts degrade PQ. For a 1080p set this becomes 1.5x(screen diagonal), the distance that is often referred to as that for which one obtains the 'full HD experience'. For a 60" 1080p set, for example, the 1.5x rule gives 7.5 ft.

Originally posted by millerwill
The general 'rule of thumb' is that one should sit no closer than 2x(screen diagonal) for a 720p set, i.e., before resolution or other artifacts degrade PQ. For a 1080p set this becomes 1.5x(screen diagonal), the distance that is often referred to as that for which one obtains the 'full HD experience'. For a 60" 1080p set, for example, the 1.5x rule gives 7.5 ft.

Great scott! So you're saying that if I'm further back than 7.5 feet with a 60 inch 1080p screen...I'm at a disadvantage?

Let me get this straight. There's only 1 HDMI input on the 77 and NO DVI inputs? So, if I want to use my TV signal and a computer signal at the same time (PIP), I'm out of luck?

CableCard you say? The 77 has no Electronic Programming Guide.

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
Great scott! So you're saying that if I'm further back than 7.5 feet with a 60 inch 1080p screen...I'm at a disadvantage?

You should obviously sit at the distance you find most pleasing. But yes, this '1.5xdiagoal' rule has been quoted as the orginal design goal for HD. And the resolution of a 1080p set allows you sit this close without any artifacts to the PQ due to resolution. It's your choice, of course, whether or not you want to sit this close. I do, or at least think I do; if I find that it's too close for my taste, I'll scoot back a foot or two. But if you go back as far as 2xdiagonal, then it's questionable whether or not 1080p gives any better PQ than 720p (other things--such as CR--being equal, which they probably are not in the upcoming sets). I.e., it's possible that the new 1080p sets will give better PQ because of their higher CR, independent of the question of resolution.

Originally posted by millerwill
You should obviously sit at the distance you find most pleasing. But yes, this '1.5xdiagoal' rule has been quoted as the orginal design goal for HD. And the resolution of a 1080p set allows you sit this close without any artifacts to the PQ due to resolution. It's your choice, of course, whether or not you want to sit this close. I do, or at least think I do; if I find that it's too close for my taste, I'll scoot back a foot or two. But if you go back as far as 2xdiagonal, then it's questionable whether or not 1080p gives any better PQ than 720p (other things--such as CR--being equal, which they probably are not in the upcoming sets). I.e., it's possible that the new 1080p sets will give better PQ because of their higher CR, independent of the question of resolution.

Understood. :)

Talking about distances now gets me thinking if I should get a 50" 720p or 50" 1080p or maybe do what the guy at Tweeter said and get a 46" 720p. Because I will be sitting anywhere from 6.5 to 9.5 feet away.

Originally posted by subwoofer
Talking about distances now gets me thinking if I should get a 50" 720p or 50" 1080p or maybe do what the guy at Tweeter said and get a 46" 720p. Because I will be sitting anywhere from 6.5 to 9.5 feet away.

If you like the cost and performances, I'd lean towards the newer technology everytime myself. I'm not going to kill myself over this distance issue. If a 50 inch screen isn't enough at 6-9 feet...then I don't know what to tell ya! :p



Originally posted by AkaStp
There is a block that plugs into the back of the XBox. It has a digital coax socket it in. There is a molded single long (6-7') thick cable that splits into 5 plugs (3-6" cables) at the end. This would be the new version yes?

This?

http://www.xbox.com/en-us/hardware/highdefinitionavpack.htm

Originally posted by subwoofer
Talking about distances now gets me thinking if I should get a 50" 720p or 50" 1080p or maybe do what the guy at Tweeter said and get a 46" 720p. Because I will be sitting anywhere from 6.5 to 9.5 feet away.

People who went to the CES show have categorically stated that the PQ on the 1080P sets was much much better than the 720P sets. In addition to the higher resolution (which should not be undersold IMHO), there is the much higher CR as well. Further, some folks are going to be previewing these sets at the show in NY starting this weekend as well.

However, it is going to cost more to get these features. The 720P sets will still be around (not the HD2+ based ones admittedly) when the 1080P sets are released. You can most likely make a decision after viewing both the sets side-by-side at that time.

I have made the decision to wait for the 1080P sets to arrive. If they are delayed, then there will be frustration but hopefully Samsung can make the dates they have promised.

Originally posted by wish_i_had_hdtv
People who went to the CES show have categorically stated that the PQ on the 1080P sets was much much better than the 720P sets. In addition to the higher resolution (which should not be undersold IMHO), there is the much higher CR as well. Further, some folks are going to be previewing these sets at the show in NY starting this weekend as well.

However, it is going to cost more to get these features. The 720P sets will still be around (not the HD2+ based ones admittedly) when the 1080P sets are released. You can most likely make a decision after viewing both the sets side-by-side at that time.

I have made the decision to wait for the 1080P sets to arrive. If they are delayed, then there will be frustration but hopefully Samsung can make the dates they have promised.

If the delay means extra careful quality control and assurance, I won't be frustrated...too much. ;)

Originally posted by AkaStp
There is a block that plugs into the back of the XBox. It has a digital coax socket it in. There is a molded single long (6-7') thick cable that splits into 5 plugs (3-6" cables) at the end. This would be the new version yes?

I can't find this anywhere.

So this is the store chosen by Samsung to receive the very first 2005 sets???

http://www.bernies.com/

This is where nickw23 claims to have purchased one.

A Bernie's just opened right near my work. I've never been in as it looks kinda sleazy...but maybe I'll check it out just to see...

website is ghetto as hell......

Originally posted by wish_i_had_hdtv
People who went to the CES show have categorically stated that the PQ on the 1080P sets was much much better than the 720P sets. In addition to the higher resolution (which should not be undersold IMHO), there is the much higher CR as well. Further, some folks are going to be previewing these sets at the show in NY starting this weekend as well.

However, it is going to cost more to get these features. The 720P sets will still be around (not the HD2+ based ones admittedly) when the 1080P sets are released. You can most likely make a decision after viewing both the sets side-by-side at that time.

I have made the decision to wait for the 1080P sets to arrive. If they are delayed, then there will be frustration but hopefully Samsung can make the dates they have promised.

I agree that one needs to see both sets side by side to make a decision. Plus waiting will let me hear about possible problems with the new HLR 720p tvs. Although I'm getting tired of waiting and I don't want to miss out on some HD football this fall.

So these 1080p sets are suppose to arrive mid-summer, huh? I think I can wait till then

Originally posted by Ronald K
How many pixels does a 1080i set have?

Edited to add that I believe the 1080i sets have the exact same resolution as the 1080p sets.

Right, and 1080[i|p] is > 720[i|p].

And you're assuming most sources are 720p - they're not. Therefore, 1080p is superior. I still don't understand the argument here. All things being equal (and they're not, the 1080p chips actually have better non-resolution specs), 1080p is a superior display format.

I don't understand why this argument keeps coming up unless people are upset they bought a 720p (I wouldn't be), or they are in a hurry and want to justify buying a 720p TV right now.

Edit: Wobulation is also a valid concern over the 1080p DLP's, I guess.

Originally posted by jvrobert
Right, and 1080[i|p] is > 720[i|p].

And you're assuming most sources are 720p - they're not. Therefore, 1080p is superior. I still don't understand the argument here. All things being equal (and they're not, the 1080p chips actually have better non-resolution specs), 1080p is a superior display format.

I don't understand why this argument keeps coming up unless people are upset they bought a 720p (I wouldn't be), or they are in a hurry and want to justify buying a 720p TV right now.

Edit: Wobulation is also a valid concern over the 1080p DLP's, I guess.

Since there's really no news, maybe we'll see another two pages of this thread go on with this so-called argument. :rolleyes:

I'll say the same thing I said a page or so ago and the page before that even: 1080p is better. Period.

Originally posted by Tom_Bombadil
So this is the store chosen by Samsung to receive the very first 2005 sets???

http://www.bernies.com/

This is where nickw23 claims to have purchased one.
Nickw23 is new here and to these sets and "thinks" he bought a HLR4667 from "bernies". I think that either he is mistaken, or he was misled by a "bernies" sales person. The sales person may have confused the HLR with the air conditioners being pushed by "bernies" web site. ;)

Of course Samsung may have air freighted a few HLR4667 sets to "bernies". :(

Or one of those Serta matresses...

Originally posted by AkaStp
So, yes of course someone who purchases a 720p TV right now would want to justify their purchase. Whats wrong with that?
Absolutely nothing.

Of course there is no way to do it until the 1080p sets are in the stores. :)

Originally posted by dunnar
Let me get this straight. There's only 1 HDMI input on the 77 and NO DVI inputs? So, if I want to use my TV signal and a computer signal at the same time (PIP), I'm out of luck?

CableCard you say? The 77 has no Electronic Programming Guide.

Any suggestions? Work arounds? Is this confirmed? Does the 67 have more than 1 HDMI input or a VGA/PC input? I really like the PQ of the HD2+ chip better than the wobulated chips, but is it worth it enough to give up on the laptop/TV PIP feature?

Question for my frame of reference/clarification. These new DLP's are set to be 1080p ready.

Last night, at Sears (?!) I was checking out some sets and I must say, two Hitachis really blew me away in terms of PQ. The 42 (and larger) v710 and 810 series. These are considered LCD Projection TV's, so I understand these are different technologies, but I think you'll see where my question goes.

Now, these TV's advertise the following in their specs:


VirtualHD™1080p Video Processor:
When content from film is sent to your home it requires processing that can cause picture noise or distortion. VirtualHD™ technology reduces this noise to a minimum, recreating the smooth curves and high fidelity image of the original film source.

These TV's have been out for a while, if I'm not mistaken. (I don't know what Hitachi has planned next.)

What's the meaning of that setup vs. what these DLPs are going to do? Thanks!

Heres what Hitachi says:

VirtualHD™ 1080p Video Processor
Proprietary VirtualHD™ technology makes Hitachi the ultimate choice in projection television for any input source. When content from film is sent to your home it requires processing that can cause picture noise or distortion. VirtualHD™ technology reduces this noise to a minimum, recreating the smooth curves and high fidelity image of the original film source.

Models: All 2004 LCD HDTVs

They have a video here that also explains:

VirtualHD 1080p Video Processor (http://www.hitachi.us/tv/discover/techadv/tech_ad_lcd00.shtml) (half-way down the page).

Basically they are simply calling their video processor 1080p - marketing jargon.

The Hitachi is still native 720p resolution.

Originally posted by AkaStp
The new HLRxx77 (HD2+) has 1 X HDMI only (The DVI and RGB/VGA inputs were sacrificed to provide the ATSC Tuner + CableCard.

This leads me to another question. Why add a CableCard without also including the Electronic Programming Guide? I guess that doesn't make sense to me. If the 77 had the EPM, I'd be all set. I'd just run my TV signal through the CableCard (no OnDemand, eh?) and run my PC signal through the HDMI input. Ugg.

Over in the plasma forum, there is a thread on Samsung's upcoming 42" and 50" plasmas. They look to be getting very serious about plasma, their sets have great specs and aggressive pricing. Note that they are using the same "floating screen" design as we've seen on the DLPs.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=533646

It wasn't that long ago that Samsung TV products were inexpensive 3rd rate gear. They are really becoming an across-the-board industry leader in this field. Note they are the innovators on thin-tube CRT sets & a leader in LCD flat-panel technology too. They must have made a significant investment in R&D a few years back.

Originally posted by Tom_Bombadil
Over in the plasma forum, there is a thread on Samsung's upcoming 42" and 50" plasmas. They look to be getting very serious about plasma, their sets have great specs and aggressive pricing. Note that they are using the same "floating screen" design as we've seen on the DLPs.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=533646

It wasn't that long ago that Samsung TV products were inexpensive 3rd rate gear. They are really becoming an across-the-board industry leader in this field. Note they are the innovators on thin-tube CRT sets & a leader in LCD flat-panel technology too. They must have made a significant investment in R&D a few years back.

Exactly! A lot of us still don't know what to make of Samsung or how confident we should be in them. 3 years ago it was like: Who?

I guess the proof really is in the pudding, ultimately.



Originally posted by schaffer970
Heres what Hitachi says:

VirtualHD™ 1080p Video Processor
Proprietary VirtualHD™ technology makes Hitachi the ultimate choice in projection television for any input source. When content from film is sent to your home it requires processing that can cause picture noise or distortion. VirtualHD™ technology reduces this noise to a minimum, recreating the smooth curves and high fidelity image of the original film source.

Models: All 2004 LCD HDTVs

They have a video here that also explains:

VirtualHD 1080p Video Processor (http://www.hitachi.us/tv/discover/techadv/tech_ad_lcd00.shtml) (half-way down the page).

Basically they are simply calling their video processor 1080p - marketing jargon.

That's what I thought. Just checking. ;) Nice looking sets, though. Have to give credit where it's due. Very impressive PQ.

I just went to see a HLP5685W, and liked the picture quality, but I need a larger set, either a 61, 67" preeferably or 70". I would like to wait for the new 1080p sets, but my question is:
The salesman said that the picture was sharper on the 5685 rather than any of the larger sets, because the 56" sets were the largest sets that Samsung made, without using their "smoothing" technique, "warbbling??"
Is this so, and if so, will the new 1080p sets larger than 56" have this "dithered" edges look?

am I the only person here who is going insane over the decision of getting a 720p tv now or wait until the 1080p?!??! I can't decide but I want a 50" HDTV sooooo badly! Plus I need my PC connected to it and I don't want to settle for a 46" (size matters). What to do what to do!?!?

1.) intexltd - Just remember: Your salesman cares most about his CURRENT inventory and clearing as much of it as he can. ;)

2.) Subwoofer - ON PAPER, these new Samsungs seem to be improved in EVERY way possible, not just the 1080p aspect. I'd like to believe it's a step up waiting for those vs. going for the already solid present generation of DLPs.

If you've waited this long, anyone on the fence like me, you, or whoever else, owes it to themselves to wait just a wee bit longer until these new DLP's hit the streets. From there, we can all determine with our own eyes if we think the difference is worth the money or not.

At that point, you win either way. You'll either buy a 720p display that's marked down even more thanks to the release of new models...or the more likely scenario...we'lll all be knocked on our a$$es and buying the new 1080p's. ;)

dunnar,

note that the Samsungs do not support PIP with two digital signals - at least for the HLRxx67W models. In fact only the main can be digitial - the PIP can only be analog. This is stated on the quick reference card (http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/EM/200504/20050425165730953/EN/main.htm).

I wonder if you use the PC input on the HLRxx67W models whether this will work with PIP. The PC input will at least have the benefit of supporting 1080p.

Originally posted by jensph
dunnar,

note that the Samsungs do not support PIP with two digital signals - at least for the HLRxx67W models. In fact only the main can be digitial - the PIP can only be analog. This is stated on the quick reference card (http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/EM/200504/20050425165730953/EN/main.htm).

Do we know if any of the new models (68,78, or 88) willl be able to do PIP with two digitals and/or two analogs?


I wonder if you use the PC input on the HLRxx67W models whether this will work with PIP. The PC input will at least have the benefit of supporting 1080p.

Great question!

Originally posted by Tom_Bombadil
Over in the plasma forum, there is a thread on Samsung's upcoming 42" and 50" plasmas. They look to be getting very serious about plasma, their sets have great specs and aggressive pricing. Note that they are using the same "floating screen" design as we've seen on the DLPs.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=533646

It wasn't that long ago that Samsung TV products were inexpensive 3rd rate gear. They are really becoming an across-the-board industry leader in this field. Note they are the innovators on thin-tube CRT sets & a leader in LCD flat-panel technology too. They must have made a significant investment in R&D a few years back.

I agree the new Samsung plasmas look good. :)

Originally posted by subwoofer
am I the only person here who is going insane over the decision of getting a 720p tv now or wait until the 1080p?!??! I can't decide but I want a 50" HDTV sooooo badly! Plus I need my PC connected to it and I don't want to settle for a 46" (size matters). What to do what to do!?!?
Has the 1080p 50" even been definitively confirmed yet? I wish I new what the price difference would be - that would help me decide whether I should try to wait....

^exactly! I gotta wait. I know I can do it. I have to resist the urge or bringing a briefcase of cold cash to Tweeter or my check book :) I think I can wait until this summer. Isn't that when we will see them on the market?

Also on a separate note: Does anyone have a picture of the smooth HD3 vs the digital HD2+ DLP tvs from Samsung? I'd like to see a good comparitive difference between the two because I feel this is also a major factor if someone wants a table top 720p and 1080p

Originally posted by subwoofer
am I the only person here who is going insane over the decision of getting a 720p tv now or wait until the 1080p?!??! I can't decide but I want a 50" HDTV sooooo badly! Plus I need my PC connected to it and I don't want to settle for a 46" (size matters). What to do what to do!?!?

Yeah. Definitely going insane. I was pretty set on the 77 until I saw it only had the one digital input. Even if I don't want to do PIP, I would still have to disconnect/reconnect my digital cable box or laptop everytime. And I'm still confused about the omission of the EPG in the 77. A CableCard without an EPG seems pretty worthless. I'm actually looking at the 74 now. Anybody know where I can get a 74?

Originally posted by subwoofer
^exactly! I gotta wait. I know I can do it. I have to resist the urge or bringing a briefcase of cold cash to Tweeter or my check book :) I think I can wait until this summer. Isn't that when we will see them on the market?

Also on a separate note: Does anyone have a picture of the smooth HD3 vs the digital HD2+ DLP tvs from Samsung? I'd like to see a good comparitive difference between the two because I feel this is also a major factor if someone wants a table top 720p and 1080p

You've got those, but aren't these new sets going up to a new HD4 as well? I'd have to believe that is very signifigant!

^What website or thread on AVS can I view a side by side comparsion of the two?

Originally posted by jensph
I wonder if you use the PC input on the HLRxx67W models whether this will work with PIP. The PC input will at least have the benefit of supporting 1080p.

Great question! Does the 67 support PIP using the HDMI and VGA/PC inputs as the sources?

Originally posted by dunnar
Great question! Does the 67 support PIP using the HDMI and VGA/PC inputs as the sources?

Check the manual (link is in POST #1). I think there is a table which shows all the PIP combinations. I don't think the above combination is valid. :(

Go to post #1 and bring up the manual for the 67 series. On page 132 of the manual is a chart that shows PIP combinations. The way I read it, the VGA port will do PIP.

Almost every Best Buy and Circuit City have x63 (smooth 720) and x85 (sharp 720) sets. Several Sears and regional retailers too. I think I've compared them a good 8-10 times over the past year.

I would be surprised if any picture would really show you the difference real well, for it will be compromised by the camera, the way it was saved, and then the way it is displayed on your monitor.

Even with this information, you don't know how a x67 will compare as it is using a different chip than the x63. And then the 1080p models are something completely different.

According to the manual, it looks like the VGA port will do PIP, but not with the HDMI input as the other source. Too bad. So sad.

Originally posted by dunnar
According to the manual, it looks like the VGA port will do PIP, but not with the HDMI input as the other source. Too bad. So sad.
These last several posts...I wonder if the new models forthcoming will be different?

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
These last several posts...I wonder if the new models forthcoming will be different?

The manual used was for the new HLRxx67W series.

In fact, the draft manual for the HLRxx88 says no PIP for the vga port. Because this is a draft manual, I'm not sure how good the PIP table is.

Originally posted by AkaStp
There is a block that plugs into the back of the XBox. It has a digital coax socket it in. There is a molded single long (6-7') thick cable that splits into 5 plugs (3-6" cables) at the end. This would be the new version yes?

If it's all in a one piece cable, yeah, you have the new version. If it came in two parts, it's the old version.

But it should be an optical connector though, I've never seen a coax connector in any version of the HD packs.

Originally posted by victor_c26
If it's all in a one piece cable, yeah, you have the new version. If it came in two parts, it's the old version.

But it should be an optical connector though, I've never seen a coax connector in any version of the HD packs.

Me, either. It's usually always optical.

Originally posted by subwoofer
am I the only person here who is going insane over the decision of getting a 720p tv now or wait until the 1080p?!??! I can't decide but I want a 50" HDTV sooooo badly! Plus I need my PC connected to it and I don't want to settle for a 46" (size matters). What to do what to do!?!?

I am starting to gravitate towards the 56" 77 with small bezel since height is my limiting factor. If I get the non thin bezel model then I will have to settle on 50". It sounds like there might not be a 50" 1080P set so I would be stuck on 720P no matter since there is no thin bezel 56 in 1080P.

Non the less I will not move until I can compare the 56 720's and 1080's against the 50" 720's.

What I really need is a small bezel monitor only (no speakers - LCD or Plasma or SEM?) at 60" but I don't see any of those on the horizon at $5k or less so I will have to wait about 5 years with a 50" or 56" DLP (probably at 720P).

In the NorthEast, Cotsco had the 5674s, w stand for 3K 2 weeks ago. Don't know if they have anymore of them. Like Subwoofer, I wanted 50", hd2+, and vga input, but couldn't go with the 5085 Kirk.

Decided to wait and see the pq of the hlr5067 since it has pc input. Possibly newer hd4 chip, even though wobulated, will have good pq.

If not, I will try to pick up older 5063, have seen them mail order now for ~1,900 w shipping, and will probably sell for closer to 1,700 before they go. Everybody has their price, and i wonder how much my eyes see hd2+ better after reading this forum vs. reality!

Originally posted by jbinbi
In the NorthEast, Cotsco had the 5674s, w stand for 3K 2 weeks ago. Don't know if they have anymore of them. Like Subwoofer, I wanted 50", hd2+, and vga input, but couldn't go with the 5085 Kirk.


I was at Costco yesterday and was surprised that their price had dropped another 10%. Oh it is very tempting, if the stand would fit in my location I would buy it. Since it doesn't I will hold out to see how the 1080p sets look.

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
Since there's really no news, maybe we'll see another two pages of this thread go on with this so-called argument. :rolleyes:

I'll say the same thing I said a page or so ago and the page before that even: 1080p is better. Period.

Wow you must be the worlds leading expert on HDTVs. How many do you own?

You must also be an expert on 1080P TVs. How many of the new Samsung 1080P TVs have you seen?

A 720P format delivers up to 55,296,000 Pixels per second.

A 1080i format delivers up to 62,208,000 Pixels per second.

A Samsung 1080P tv, which is what this thread is about has the same resolution as a 1080i set. It is not double the resolution.

If I am not mistaken, there are no real usable 1080P formats to view and even more importantly if there are in the future, these first generation 1080P Samsungs do not have any input that can even accept one.

There are real 720P signals and real 720P displays. For our purposes there are no 1080P signals that we have access to and this next generation Samsung is not a 1080P display.

The few people on this thread that have actually spent a few minutes in front of one of these new Samsung 1080Ps say that has a great picture. There are many reasons other than resolution why one TV will look better than another.

I would like to hear how well these new sets actually display a 720P source.
I also will say again that they will not display a 720P signal better than a 720P display can. And to quote the apparently great Bandit Z - Period.

Originally posted by Ronald K
Wow you must be the worlds leading expert on HDTVs. How many do you own?

You must also be an expert on 1080P TVs. How many of the new Samsung 1080P TVs have you seen?

A 720P format delivers up to 55,296,000 Pixels per second.

A 1080i format delivers up to 62,208,000 Pixels per second.

A Samsung 1080P tv, which is what this thread is about has the same resolution as a 1080i set. It is not double the resolution.

If I am not mistaken, there are no real usable 1080P formats to view and even more importantly if there are in the future, these first generation 1080P Samsungs do not have any input that can even accept one.

There are real 720P signals and real 720P displays. For our purposes there are no 1080P signals that we have access to and this next generation Samsung is not a 1080P display.

The few people on this thread that have actually spent a few minutes in front of one of these new Samsung 1080Ps say that has a great picture. There are many reasons other than resolution why one TV will look better than another.

I would like to hear how well these new sets actually display a 720P source.
I also will say again that they will not display a 720P signal better than a 720P display can. And to quote the apparently great Bandit Z - Period.

Hi Ronald, welcome to the thread. I guess I may have lost track of what the disagreement is here, but there are some good reasons that people are interested in the new 1080p DLPs. First, most HD material is broadcast in 1080i. These signals have to be processed down to be displayed on a 720p set (1920x1080 down to 1280x720). I think we would prefer to see all of the detail in the 1080i broadcast. 720p is a nice format, my current set uses that format and I really have gotten a lot of enjoyment out of it. Second, I have a number of hobbies. One is photography. The 1920x1080 resolution of the new sets is high enough to do a much better job of displaying photos so people can share them. I am also interested in how my HTPC will function in web browsing, email, and applications. Third, many of us are anxiously awaiting HD DVD which will be in 1080(i). Like the HD broadcasts, we want to see all of the detail on these new DVDs. Fourth, I for one hope that on-screen program guides and my DVR menus will start to take advantage of the higher resolution, letting me see more listings at one time.

Most broadcasts are in 1080i so why worry so much about how it displays 720P when only a few networks use that resolution. We need to see them side by side to really make a comparison anyway, but I've already decided on a 1080P set. The only question is whether it's the 61" or 67".

G'Day From Australia.

Just interested to know whether anyone can help me out with model numbers and the new models expected in australia in late May. The model listed below is the one i ordered a while ago but they have run out of stock in Aust and Samsung tell me that it is a discontinued model. These retailed here at $2600 and $4000.

The new model is expected to be a 50 inch screen as opposed the the 46 inch one I was after.
I have difficulty comparing the model numbers you guys are talking about as we appear to have a different system in Austalia.

Also what money are you paying and what could I expect to pay for these new models????

The information below is from the Digital Centre in Melbourne.

SAMSUNG SP46L3H REAR PROJECTION TELEVISION
SAMSUNG SP46L3H REAR PROJECTION TELEVISION
Features


46"/ 117CM 16:9 Aspect Ratio
DLP Rear Projection TV
1500:1 Contrast Ratio / 750 CD/m2 Brightness
2 Analogue Tuner PIP / Double Screen
HD READY / 720P 1080i
SRS Tru Surround XT
Tabletop design




Specifications


46" / 117cm 16:9 DLP Projection TV
HD Ready
Hd3 DMD Processor
7 segment colour Wheel
1500:1 Contrast Ratio
750 Candela Brightness
1280x720 Resolution
HDMI interface (DVI compatible)
DNIe3
MCC (My Colour Control)
6x Density Enhancement
Colour weakness compensator
2 x component inputs
Easy User interface
SRS TruSurround XT
15Wx2 4 speakers
Picture-In-Picture
8000 hour lamp life


SP46L3H

Thanking you in advance from AUssie LAnd

Originally posted by jbinbi
In the NorthEast, Cotsco had the 5674s, w stand for 3K 2 weeks ago. Don't know if they have anymore of them. Like Subwoofer, I wanted 50", hd2+, and vga input, but couldn't go with the 5085 Kirk.

Decided to wait and see the pq of the hlr5067 since it has pc input. Possibly newer hd4 chip, even though wobulated, will have good pq.

If not, I will try to pick up older 5063, have seen them mail order now for ~1,900 w shipping, and will probably sell for closer to 1,700 before they go. Everybody has their price, and i wonder how much my eyes see hd2+ better after reading this forum vs. reality!

Have seen the 5674 in Costco in NJ and FL. Unforuntately for me I'm looking for the 4674 which I've yet to see at a very attractive price point.

Seems like there is a chance for the 50" 1080p and there is no way a first generation 46", which is fine. But my quick question is how do I know whats best for my living room without physically getting the tv in there? I know I've heard the 2x distance thing for 720p and 1.5x for 1080p, but does anyone have another recommendation? This is big because if the 46" is right for me then I gotta jump on the 4674.

Another topic, anyone worried about some problems with the first generation 1080p Samsung DLP tvs? I sorta am

Originally posted by subwoofer
... but does anyone have another recommendation?


Not sure how much difference there will be in the final results, but here's is an article that uses screen heights to determine distance: http://www.satelliteguys.us/archive/index.php/t-29418.html , and here is an optimum distance calculator: http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html

Reading this following post tells me someone had a very slow day at the office.

Originally posted by Ronald K
Wow you must be the worlds leading expert on HDTVs. How many do you own?

Do you really want me to answer this and embrass you? ;)



You must also be an expert on 1080P TVs. How many of the new Samsung 1080P TVs have you seen?

Just a little common sense here, pal. Nothing to get your feathers ruffled about.



A 720P format delivers up to 55,296,000 Pixels per second.

A 1080i format delivers up to 62,208,000 Pixels per second.

A Samsung 1080P tv, which is what this thread is about has the same resolution as a 1080i set. It is not double the resolution.

I never said it was double the resolution.

No wonder you're frustrated! Some basic reading comprehension easily tells anyone that I never said this. Maybe if you didn't try to put words in other people's mouths, you'd find yourself less annoyed and frustrated.

I said 1080p was going to be "better." You've just backed me up 100 percent. Thanks! :)


If I am not mistaken, there are no real usable 1080P formats to view and even more importantly if there are in the future, these first generation 1080P Samsungs do not have any input that can even accept one.

There are real 720P signals and real 720P displays. For our purposes there are no 1080P signals that we have access to and this next generation Samsung is not a 1080P display.

You're trying to make an "If-then" analogy statement but your logic just doesn't follow through.

So let me get this straight, by your logic: If this new Sammy 1080p display that can display 1920 X 1080 lines as even YOU admit, suddenly receives a "real" 1080p signal...will that make it a 1080p display all of a sudden? What is your criteria here?


The few people on this thread that have actually spent a few minutes in front of one of these new Samsung 1080Ps

And that doesn't include either you or me.

...say that has a great picture. There are many reasons other than resolution why one TV will look better than another.

Of course. We all agree on this.


I would like to hear how well these new sets actually display a 720P source.

I also will say again that they will not display a 720P signal better than a 720P display can.

Ok, so at first you're amenable to waiting to see actual information and fact...and then you turn right around, in the same breath, and make a declarative conclusion without any basis of facts, information, or reality. The hell with any firsthand experience, right? You've already decided!

You just contradicted yourself mightily here.

On what ground do you base this authoritative statement? What's your proof? Backup?

Pigs might fly outside of my window tonight as well. That statement has as much credence and likelihood as yours does and the same amount of proof and backup to go along with it.

And to quote the apparently great Bandit Z - Period.

Apparently? No sir, I AM great. Everyone knows that. ;)

What an amazing excercise of hypocrisy and self-contradiction this post is. I may be seeing signs of some ignorance as well.

You do the very thing right here that you just tried to accuse me and slam me on. Except, unlike you, I'm directly quoting you word for word. I'll use your own words against you to respond to it. Direct quotes all the way.

Wow you must be the world's leading expert on HDTVs! How many do YOU own? (What a dumbass question that is. I feel stupid even copying and pasting it.)

You must also be an expert on 1080P TVs. How many of the new Samsung 1080P TVs have YOU seen?

Those questions are from me to you now, since you're 100 percent guilty of the very thing you tried to accuse me of and I directly quoted you all the way on that.

What a bunch of crap. Trash. :rolleyes:

How the hell can you make any declarative, authoritative statements like these at all, one way or the other? You haven't seen these sets either! LOL!

I stand by everyting I've said, regardless of any spin or distortion attempts by the likes of you. If you're going to argue a point, at least try to argue the facts or the actual points being said via direct quotes vs. putting words in people's mouths before you even get started. My sig link shows what kind of a pitiful tactic that is.

Period.



UCSB wrote a wonderful posts in response to this drivel that really sends the point home with indisputable facts. Same goes for Joerod's post.

Originally posted by UCSB
Hi Ronald, welcome to the thread. I guess I may have lost track of what the disagreement is here,

There was no disagreement that I was conscious of until someone tried to put words in my mouth for a spin and slam job.


but there are some good reasons that people are interested in the new 1080p DLPs. First, most HD material is broadcast in 1080i. These signals have to be processed down to be displayed on a 720p set (1920x1080 down to 1280x720). I think we would prefer to see all of the detail in the 1080i broadcast.

Exactly right!


720p is a nice format, my current set uses that format and I really have gotten a lot of enjoyment out of it. Second, I have a number of hobbies. One is photography.

The 1920x1080 resolution of the new sets is high enough to do a much better job of displaying photos so people can share them. I am also interested in how my HTPC will function in web browsing, email, and applications. Third, many of us are anxiously awaiting HD DVD which will be in 1080(i). Like the HD broadcasts, we want to see all of the detail on these new DVDs. Fourth, I for one hope that on-screen program guides and my DVR menus will start to take advantage of the higher resolution, letting me see more listings at one time.

This is a great read coming from a photographer who obviously has a keen eye and knows what he's talking about. This is more along the lines of what I'm used to seeing here at AVS. Thank you. :)

Exactly. Once again we're back to what I keep saying: 1080p is, and will be better. Any way you can get it.

No one knows yet "how much" better these Samsung DLP's will be, with whatever 1080p serive they're going to offer.

These 1080p Samsung DLP's will be better than their 720p predecessors barring some sort of amazing screw-up. How can it be any other way?

We can debate later "how much better" once we've ALL actually seen it.

1080p will be better. But by how much remains to be "seen". The main factor is the source. What are you sending into it. 1080p satelite, dvd, HD-dvd, probably not anytime soon. The displays will be doing it, so some manufacturers will do it better. But how much better? I am for a new format, but how long before broadcasters start doing 1080p? I am not a fan of having my display scale it up to 1080p. I like sending the native rate in so there is less scanning. I have a DLP 720p Optoma SV65XF and the 720p material looks amazing. I am sure if the tvs native was 1080p it would look better but only of the source was 1080p...

Polk, I will try to translate from american to australian. I guarantee nothing, but here is the best I can do:

HLPxx74 xxL5
HLPxx85 xxL7

HLRxx67 xxL6D
HLRxx64 xxL6R
HLRxx85 xxL7X

where xx is screen size.

I am basing the above on the US FCC website where Samsung gives the model number they will use here and also include the Samsung product id which seems to correspond to the numbering they use elsewhere in the world.

Finally the other models that we talk about have not been approved by the FCC yet, so I can't translate them for you yet. :D

Originally posted by donb1948
here is an optimum distance calculator: http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html I'd take those numbers with a large grain of salt. They recommend a maximum 5.7' distance to a 46" screen. There's no way I would sit that close to 32" CRT, much less a 46" widescreen.

But then I'm usually in the back third of the movie theater...

Originally posted by kjongsma
I'd take those numbers with a large grain of salt. They recommend a maximum 5.7' distance to a 46" screen. There's no way I would sit that close to 32" CRT, much less a 46" widescreen.

But then I'm usually in the back third of the movie theater...

What do you think of these figures? This is info courtesy of Crutchfield.com's Advisor:

For 4:3 sets:

Screen size Suggested iewing distance
27" 6.75 ft
32" 8 feet
36" 9 feet
40" 10 feet
45" 11.25 feet
50" 12.5 feet
55" 13.75 feet
60" 15 feet


For HDTV-capable TVs with 4:3 or 16:9 aspect ratio

Screen size Suggested viewing distance

30" 6.25 feet
35" 7.3 feet
40" 8.3 feet
45" 9.4 feet
50" 10.4 feet
55" 11.5 feet
60" 12.5 feet
65" 13.5 feet

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
What do you think of these figures? They seem far more reasonable...

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
What do you think of these figures?
I picked a 50" screen for our 10' distance and like it at 720p. I think I "might" be comfortable with up to a 61" 1080p screen at the same distance.

My problem (WAF) will be the size of the thing when we aren't watching a good movie. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by htwaits
I picked a 50" screen for our 10' distance and like it at 720p. I think I "might" be comfortable with up to a 61" 1080p screen at the same distance.

My problem (WAF) will be the size of the thing when we aren't watching a good movie. :rolleyes:

I feel ya! ;)

The Crutchfield numbers struck me as being a lot more reasonable simply because a lot of those figures have been personal experiences of mine as well.

If those figures are to be believed...I may go for the 50 inch screen instead of the 60. I know that if one goes "too big" that can also lead to unfavorable results.

Heh, we'll see. ;)

There has been a lot of debate about comparing 720, 1080, upscaling 720 to 1080 for the 1080p displays and viewing 1080i source on a 720p display.

I decided to do a little photoshop experiment in order to get a better feel for these issues. I found the results interesting so I thought I would share them. Of course these are static images so the whole interlaced, progressive issue is not addressed, still pictures are more sensitive to resolution differences than moving video, Photoshop does better resizing than the TVs will do and this ignores contrast ratio improvements. This is just a simple simulation, not to replace hands on observations (which we should have a lot more of after this weekend).

My method was to start with a photo from my computer and resize it to both 1080 and 720 (I also did 480 but it looked bad and the result was too big for sharing) using Photoshop's best / default resizing algorithm (Bicubic resampling). I then converted each of these to the other (1080->720 and 720->1080) using the same resizing algorithm to simulate the effect of a 720p DLP downsizing a 1080i source for display and a 1080p DLP upsizing a 720p source for display respectively. I then took all four of these images and upsized them to 2160 using Photoshop's worst resizing algorithm (nearest neighbor) this algorithm will just duplicate pixels so the 720 resolution image's pixels are replaced by 3x3 blocks of identical pixels in the 2160 image and the 1080 resolution image's pixels are replaced by 2x2 blocks of identical pixels in the 2160 image. This simulates the different sized pixels of the 720 and 1080 displays and gets the 4 resulting images to the same size. I then made a little mosaic of crops of these images to compare quality.

The image is attached so that people can see the results but if you are interested I suggest you do this yourself with your own images so that you can look around at different parts of the image and compare different scenarios. Perhaps someone who is more knowledgable than I can write a little photoshop action to do this automatically. It would also be interesting to use the techniques in <some popular thread I don't recall> for simulating the effects of wobulation to get a better idea of how things will look.

Originally posted by John_Jones_CA
There has been a lot of debate about comparing 720, 1080, upscaling 720 to 1080 for the 1080p displays and viewing 1080i source on a 720p display.

I decided to do a little photoshop experiment in order to get a better feel for these issues. I found the results interesting so I thought I would share them. Of course these are static images so the whole interlaced, progressive issue is not addressed, still pictures are more sensitive to resolution differences than moving video, Photoshop does better resizing than the TVs will do and this ignores contrast ratio improvements. This is just a simple simulation, not to replace hands on observations (which we should have a lot more of after this weekend).

My method was to start with a photo from my computer and resize it to both 1080 and 720 (I also did 480 but it looked bad and the result was too big for sharing) using Photoshop's best / default resizing algorithm (Bicubic resampling). I then converted each of these to the other (1080->720 and 720->1080) using the same resizing algorithm to simulate the effect of a 720p DLP downsizing a 1080i source for display and a 1080p DLP upsizing a 720p source for display respectively. I then took all four of these images and upsized them to 2160 using Photoshop's worst resizing algorithm (nearest neighbor) this algorithm will just duplicate pixels so the 720 resolution image's pixels are replaced by 3x3 blocks of identical pixels in the 2160 image and the 1080 resolution image's pixels are replaced by 2x2 blocks of identical pixels in the 2160 image. This simulates the different sized pixels of the 720 and 1080 displays and gets the 4 resulting images to the same size. I then made a little mosaic of crops of these images to compare quality.

The image is attached so that people can see the results but if you are interested I suggest you do this yourself with your own images so that you can look around at different parts of the image and compare different scenarios. Perhaps someone who is more knowledgable than I can write a little photoshop action to do this automatically. It would also be interesting to use the techniques in <some popular thread I don't recall> for simulating the effects of wobulation to get a better idea of how things will look.

Wow. That's some great work John. Thanks!

cute dog. :)

I find the Crutchfield numbers as being a bit conservative. They are recommending 2.5X the diagonal. Rather than that be the recommended distance, I'd say that would be fine for those who like to be back from the screen a bit.

For people wanting a more cinematic experience, you'd want to be closer than what they are recommending.

The difference would be (2X vs 2.5X)

50" 8.3' 10.4'
60" 10.0' 12.5'

I think this is a good range to consider. I'm sitting at 9.3' and thinking about going 50"-52".

The aggressive THX calculator would move you much closer than this.

For the most part, I think if someone tried the 2X distance for a while, that most people would not want to move back to the 2.5X distance.

Distance plays a huge part and also coincides with where I buy the tv from. I can get an HDTV that is too big or small back to Tweeter alot quicker than Crutchfield or TVA. I would hate to get a nice HLRxxxx 50" this summer/fall and have it be too big and wait a while from TVA or some online retailer to get a 46".

Originally posted by Tom_Bombadil
The aggressive THX calculator would move you much closer than this.


Remember the THX calculator is designed for MOVIE THEATERS. It is trying to get a 30 degree angle from your line of sight to the top of the screen. A better approach would be just to go down to a high quality store with you tape measure and form your own opinions. Start at 2X screen diagonal and move back/forward to your preference.

Originally posted by UCSB
A better approach would be just to go down to a high quality store with you tape measure and form your own opinions. Start at 2X screen diagonal and move back/forward to your preference.
That's what I did. I also found a store where I could set up a chair and watch a movie for almost an hour to be sure that I wasn't making it easier for rainbows to show up. At the time I was looking at 56" and 9'. I didn't want my eyes to be making rapid movements to see everything on the screen.

Even though I'm not buying a new set this year, I'm going to check out the 61" 1080p sets at 10' to see if that combination causes eye strain or rainbows -- just for fun you understand. ;)

Questions on page 1 of this thread related to the new
HLR4677 (which is based on HLP4674 with some changes):

1.# Hybrid HLN / HLP Light Engine, DNIe (Video Enhancement)
Is this still true? Is it a hybrid of HLN and HLP or is it a HLN based
light engine?

2. # Inputs: 1 HDMI, 2 Component Video, 3 S-Video, 3 Composite
Can you specify some web sites/shops/brands where we can buy
HDMI switch to connect multiple HDMI devices(atleast two: dvd & HDTV
settop box)?

3.Also since HDMI is all digital signalling, does it make any difference
in PQ if we buy some reasonable priced HDMI cables instead of some
high quality ones like Monistor cable etc? Any good places where to
buy HDMI cable?

4.How about using component video cables. Does Monister cables(THX
certified, high performance etc) make much difference in picture viewing
experience and picture quality? Any other good brands for component video
cables?


5# NO TV Guide Electronic Program Guide (This Needs To Be Confirmed ... Check Manual) (GEMSTAR TV Guide + GOLD Demo)
Is this still true? can some confirm it?

Originally posted by Tom_Bombadil
For the most part, I think if someone tried the 2X distance for a while, that most people would not want to move back to the 2.5X distance.
Yep, though I would probably be uncomfortable initially sitting at 2X today, I agree it'll take that or closer to get the full cinematic experience. While in grad school in 1977, my girlfirend (now wife) and I drove the 35 miles to Des Moines, IA to see Star Wars (the original Episode 4) during its first week of release. We got there later than expected and ended up in the center of the 3rd row in a theater where the seats went right up to the screen (or, at least it seemed that way). I actually got up before the flick started and peeked under the curtain to see how far back the screen was. It wasn't far. I'd expected a strained neck and a horrible night at the movies.Wow!!! Was I wrong. That was the FULL cinematic experience and it has not been duplicated since. To catch the opening scene of the Empire's battle ship, we had to look up! It was as if the thing extended behind our heads into the theater. The screen was one of those special curved at the sides screens made for the old 70mm projection systems. It actually seemed to end behind the 1st row! To follow all of the action, we had to turn our heads from side-to-side. And remember, this was also the first surround sound movie! That was true cinematic bliss and the closest I've ever come to "being" in the action of a movie.

How close should I sit to the 5668 I'm planning to get in order to re-experience this? 2X?... Maybe. Closer?... Probably. But, do I really believe there is any hope of duplicating my Star Wars experience in my living room? Not with a rear projection TV available today. Besides, it would be a hard sell to get the wife to go alone with arranging the family room with the TV and seating that close. Life is full of compromises.

P.S. By the way Tom_B, my wife was not at all happy (down right pissed, actually) that they left your name sake out of LOTR.

Originally posted by baba160
Questions on page 1 of this thread related to the new
HLR4677 (which is based on HLP4674 with some changes):

1.# Hybrid HLN / HLP Light Engine, DNIe (Video Enhancement)
Is this still true? Is it a hybrid of HLN and HLP or is it a HLN based
light engine?

It's a hybrid HLN light engine. Not HLN / HLP. It's the same light engine as the HLPxx74W.

2. # Inputs: 1 HDMI, 2 Component Video, 3 S-Video, 3 Composite
Can you specify some web sites/shops/brands where we can buy
HDMI switch to connect multiple HDMI devices(atleast two: dvd & HDTV
settop box)?

http://www.google.com/search?q=HDMI+switch+box

3.Also since HDMI is all digital signalling, does it make any difference
in PQ if we buy some reasonable priced HDMI cables instead of some
high quality ones like Monistor cable etc? Any good places where to
buy HDMI cable?

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/dvi/index.htm

4.How about using component video cables. Does Monister cables(THX
certified, high performance etc) make much difference in picture viewing
experience and picture quality? Any other good brands for component video
cables?

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/component/index.htm

5# NO TV Guide Electronic Program Guide (This Needs To Be Confirmed ... Check Manual) (GEMSTAR TV Guide + GOLD Demo)
Is this still true? can some confirm it?

It's true. NO TV Guide Electronic Program Guide on the HLRxx77W sets.

Originally posted by baba160
1.# Hybrid HLN / HLP Light Engine, DNIe (Video Enhancement)
Is this still true? Is it a hybrid of HLN and HLP or is it a HLN based
light engine?

The HLPxx74 light engine was the same as the HLNxx7 light engine with the HD2+ chip replacing the HD2 chip.

3.Also since HDMI is all digital signalling, does it make any difference
in PQ if we buy some reasonable priced HDMI cables instead of some
high quality ones like Monistor cable etc? Any good places where to
buy HDMI cable?

Monster DVI/HDMI cables are seriously over priced.

Try places like this.

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/

In the new May/June issue of The Perfect Vision magazine, there's an article (on page 18 I think) about CES 2005. It talks about how TI is no longer calling the chips HD2, HD2+, HD3, etc.

It says that the chips like the HD2+ are now being referred to as "Orthogonal" or a 1:1 mirror-to-pixel ratio. The wobble chips like the HD3 are now being referred to as "Smooth Picture" or "Diamond Pattern Mirrors" or a 1:2 mirror-to-pixel ratio.

It says that there will be four different TI chips in this years 2005 DLP sets. The HD3 chip, a chip we can call the HD4, a chip we can call the xHD4, and the HD2+ chip. The HD2+ is the ONLY chip with a 1:1 mirror-to-pixel ratio; the other three are wobble chips with a 1:2 mirror-to-pixel ratio.

Originally posted by Administrator
In the new May/June issue of The Perfect Vision magazine, there's an article (on page 18 I think) about CES 2005. It talks about how TI is no longer calling the chips HD2, HD2+, HD3, etc.

It says that the chips like the HD2+ are now being referred to as "Octagonal" or a 1:1 mirror-to-pixel ratio. The wobble chips like the HD3 are now being referred to as "Smooth Picture" or "Diamond Pattern Mirrors" or a 1:2 mirror-to-pixel ratio.

It says that there will be four different TI chips in this years 2005 DLP sets. The HD3 chip, a chip we can call the HD4, a chip we can call the xHD4, and the HD2+ chip. The HD2+ is the ONLY chip with a 1:1 mirror-to-pixel ratio; the other three are wobble chips with a 1:2 mirror-to-pixel ratio.

By that token, are you recommending that people hitting up DLP would be best served sticking with HD2+ chips?

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
By that token, are you recommending that people hitting up DLP would be best served sticking with HD2+ chips?
No. Many people like the smoother picture produced by the wobble chips. Many people like the sharper picture produced by the HD2+ chip. It's all personal preference.

I'm just pointing out how to identify which chip is in future sets. If you see an article about the TV you're interested in saying "Smooth Picture" or "Diamond Pattern Mirrors", you know it's a wobble chip.

Many people here seem to be confused with how to identify the types of chips in the sets. Hope this info helps.

Originally posted by Administrator
No. Many people like the smoother picture produced by the wobble chips. Many people like the sharper picture produced by the HD2+ chip. It's all personal preference.

I'm just pointing out how to identify which chip is in future sets. If you see an article about the TV you're interested in saying "Smooth Picture" or "Diamond Pattern Mirrors", you know it's a wobble chip.

Many people here seem to be confused with how to identify the types of chips in the sets. Hope this info helps.

AWESOME info! Thanks! For some reason, when I see the term "wobble" it concerns me. I guess that's not a bad thing per se.

Thank you VERY much for translating all that for us! :)

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
Thank you VERY much for translating all that for us! :)
No problem. I posted this earlier, but this will also help identify what DLP chip is in a set:

- If the chip size is 0.8" then it's a big 720p chip with more mirrors like the HD2+ which means sharper picture. (1:1 mirror-to-pixel ratio.)

- If the chip size is 0.55" then it's a small 720p chip with less mirrors like the HD3 which means wobble chip and smooth picture. (1:2 mirror-to-pixel ratio.)

- If the chip size is 0.9" then it's a small 1080p chip with less mirrors like the xHD3 which means wobble chip and smooth picture. (1:2 mirror-to-pixel ratio.)

Originally posted by Administrator
No problem. I posted this earlier, but this will also help identify what DLP chip is in a set:

- If the chip size is 0.8" then it's a big 720p chip with more mirrors like the HD2+ which means sharper picture. (1:1 mirror-to-pixel ratio.)

- If the chip size is 0.55" then it's a small 720p chip with less mirrors like the HD3 which means wobble chip and smooth picture. (1:2 mirror-to-pixel ratio.)

- If the chip size is 0.9" then it's a small 1080p chip with less mirrors like the xHD3 which means wobble chip and smooth picture. (1:2 mirror-to-pixel ratio.)

*copies and pastes all into a Word Document and saves.*

I had a 5663 that was replaced by a 5674. To me there was absolutely no difference between the "smooth" picture of the 5663 and the "sharp" picture of the 5674. I know a lot of people will disagree, so I need to add that I never viewed the sets side by side. Of course I may have noticed a difference if I had viewed the sets side by side. HOwever, the reason for this post is that I don't think it's as big a deal as some people are making it. When I got my 5674 I was expecting to see a noticeably sharper picture and neither I nor anyone in my family did. To me, if the only way this is noticieable is if the sets are side by side, then it's not that important of an issue. Of course this is a matter of opinion and there is certainly room for disagreement.

The info in "The Perfect Vision" is exactly what we've been saying in this thread for several months now. Except for use of the term "octagonal."

Originally posted by John_Jones_CA
[B]The image is attached so that people can see the results but if you are interested I suggest you do this yourself with your own images so that you can look around at different parts of the image and compare different scenarios. Perhaps someone who is more knowledgable than I can write a little photoshop action to do this automatically. It would also be interesting to use the techniques in <some popular thread I don't recall> for simulating the effects of wobulation to get a better idea of how things will look.

That is good stuff. Stick around;)

Originally posted by AkaStp
Why is that?
The pixel structure is harder to see because the diamonds overlap with their neighbors which gets rid of the "screen door" effect.

Would someone please answer this question:
I have seen all the current Samsungs side-by-side, and the HLP5685 Pedestal Unit looks substantially sharper and brighter.Would you please let me know if this is due to the "sharp" versus "smooth" difference due to their "wobulation" or dithering of the pxels to get a smoother picture?? Does anyone know if the new 1080p units that are 61" and larger will still have this "smooth" effect, or look more like the 5685. I have to make a decision asap as my Pioneer Elite just bit the dust.

Originally posted by intexltd
Would you please let me know if this is due to the "sharp" versus "smooth" difference due to their "wobulation" or dithering of the pixels to get a smoother picture??

The HLPxx85 sets are the only Samsung sets that combine the HD2+ (1x1 mirror to pixel relationship) sharpness with a seven element color wheel to improve detail in dark images.

Does anyone know if the new 1080p units that are 61" and larger will still have this "smooth" effect, or look more like the 5685.

All 1080p Samsung sets will have "smooth" chips with a 1x2 mirror to pixel relationship.
I have to make a decision asap as my Pioneer Elite just bit the dust.

You will have to wait until this summer to see any of the new 1080p sets.

Thanks for the reply, even if it was not what I wanted to hear. Evidently the new HLR6178W uses a XHD4 chip, will this be a smooth chip ? For sure, or just rumored? Is there a reason why they do not manufacture 1 to 1 pixel ratio chips in a larger screen size? The Mitsubishi WD62825 at 62" seems to have a more "sharp" picture?

All of the 1080p sets will be smoothpicture (wobulated, smooth, 1:2 mirror to pixel). It is difficult to say what the "sharpness" comparison between the HLP5685 (720P) and the 1080p sets will be like, as no one has seen them side by side.

Administrator, I think that the 1080p chips will be .85" chips (not to confuse anyone).

Originally posted by schaffer970
Administrator, I think that the 1080p chips will be .85" chips (not to confuse anyone).
AAaaargh! I'm confused. :D

Is it just my eyes, or does the wobbulated picture on the non-HD2+ chip sets, look washed out and a little out of focus, when compared to the HLP5685?

Originally posted by htwaits
AAaaargh! I'm confused. :D

You were about the only one I wasn't worried about becoming confused! :D :D

I was looking for an old thread (last year after HD3/xHD3 announced at CES but before they were available) in which someone had used photoshop to create pseudo wobulated images of his computer desktop and some still frames in order to examine what the effect of wobulation would be. I can't find this thread anymore. I believe it was in the front projector forum but I may be wrong. It has been linked to many times, I just can't find it. If anyone can post a link I would appreciate it.

Originally posted by John_Jones_CA
I was looking for an old thread (last year after HD3/xHD3 announced at CES but before they were available) in which someone had used photoshop to create pseudo wobulated images of his computer desktop
ARCHIVE2 was created in June last year. That's probably where it is.

Heres the link xHD3 vs real 1080p: Strengths and Limitations (w/pics) (http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=394763&highlight=xhd3). Yes, it has been archived. :)

There are multiple reasons why the 1080p sets w/wobulation may be much sharper than the present x63 720 wobulation sets.

1) Higher final resolution - 1920x1080 vs 1280x720.

2) Much higher mirror count on chip. 960x1080 = 1,036,800 mirrors vs 640x720 = 460,800 mirrors.

3) Finer pixel size means overlapped area of wobulated pixels is much smaller than the same area on a x63 set.

4) Samsung has one more year of R&D on wobulation methods, could have found ways to improve it. Could have improved electronics.

5) Improved contrast ratio will make image looker sharper to eye.

6) Improvements built into the chip by TI, perhaps by altering the shape of the mirrors.

Others?

Originally posted by schaffer970
Heres the link xHD3 vs real 1080p: Strengths and Limitations (w/pics) (http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=394763&highlight=xhd3). Yes, it has been archived. :)
No thread in which Mr. Wigggles has contributed should ever be archived. Period. :cool:

Originally posted by schaffer970
Heres the link xHD3 vs real 1080p: Strengths and Limitations (w/pics) (http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=394763&highlight=xhd3). Yes, it has been archived. :)

Thanks this thread is as great today as I remember it being.

While most discussions here center around the more techinical aspects of the new series, just thought I'd drop this note extracted from the SAMSUNG POWERBUY thread. This was posted in the last 5 hours.

Kirk@TVAuthority
Member

Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Poulsbo,WA
Posts: 145
A quick update..we have 4 of the HL-R5087W available to ship (no pre-orders) and we also received our first small shipment of HL-R5067W (4 pieces). We are calling to confirm the first orders this afternoon. More inventory is scheduled to arrive in the next few days. Still no definitive answer on the other size. Stay tuned....


__________________
TV Authority
(888) 286-5353

HLR

Originally posted by AkaStp
Why would the pixel structure only become apparent during motion? You have a HLP5063 don't you? If so, do you see what I'm referring to?
I haven't been able to see any pixel structure that I was sure I wasn't imagining. That doesn't mean it's not visible. My eyes are probably a lot older than you imagine. ;)

With my eyeglasses, my vision is roughly 20/12. So I can see detail at 10' that normal vision can make out at 6'. The key is to see if you can tolerate certain flaws and then learn to live with them - reminding yourself that everytime you see them, that it could have been worse had you gone with another set.

Frankly, I've learned to live with a reasonable amount of SDE from ED plasma and LCD RP. I can see the SDE, but I don't let it get in the way of enjoying whatever I'm watching. Likewise for even the scan lines of an analog CRT tube, to a point.

The key is focusing upon the postives of the image ... the size, the color, the definition, the brightness, those beautiful high-def images. These overwhelm the negatives.

Is June still the targeted date for the 1080p sets?

Originally posted by BenDover
Is June still the targeted date for the 1080p sets?

July. I honestly won't be surprised if it goes to early Fall. Just a hunch.


Hey Tom! What kind of glasses are you wearing to have amazing vision like that?! I need that!

Footnote: Today's WSJ, in talking about Sony's horrible overall performance in the market sans its videogame division, made a reference at the end of the article about Sony's expecting better profits due to its "joint venture with Samsung" on flat panel technology.

Would anyone care to elaborate and clear that up for me? Are Sony and Samsung partners now? If so, that's one hell of a combination!

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
Sony's expecting better profits due to its "joint venture with Samsung" on flat panel technology. Would anyone care to elaborate and clear that up for me? Are Sony and Samsung partners now? If so, that's one hell of a combination! I seem to recall that venture applied to LCD manufacturing. Sony was having trouble getting yields up quick enough to make money on laptops, LCD TVs, etc. Wouldn't have any immediate effect on large screen plasma or DLP TVs.

Originally posted by kjongsma
I seem to recall that venture applied to LCD manufacturing. Sony was having trouble getting yields up quick enough to make money on laptops, LCD TVs, etc. Wouldn't have any immediate effect on large screen plasma or DLP TVs.

That's probably what they meant.

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
Would anyone care to elaborate and clear that up for me? Are Sony and Samsung partners now? If so, that's one hell of a combination!
http://www.macnewsworld.com/story/tech/sony-samsung-lcd-42414.html

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=160902431

Interesting...

"Samsung Electronics and Microsoft Announce Revolutionary HDTV Alliance on Next-Generation Xbox Video Game Console"

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5545955

Originally posted by Administrator
No. Many people like the smoother picture produced by the wobble chips. Many people like the sharper picture produced by the HD2+ chip. It's all personal preference.

Are the wobble chips cinsidered better for SD signals? The salesman at the local Tweeter told me the HLP466x was better on analog signals and the HLP467x was better on HD signals.

Groundwork being laid down for 1080p broadcasts: http://www.edn.com/article/CA525861.html?industryid=2280

Originally posted by htwaits
That's what I did. I also found a store where I could set up a chair and watch a movie for almost an hour to be sure that I wasn't making it easier for rainbows to show up. At the time I was looking at 56" and 9'. I didn't want my eyes to be making rapid movements to see everything on the screen.

Even though I'm not buying a new set this year, I'm going to check out the 61" 1080p sets at 10' to see if that combination causes eye strain or rainbows -- just for fun you understand. ;)

I watch a 6163 from ~10 ft, and could easily move up a foot or two. (Maybe I'm just near-sighted.)

Originally posted by sh05947
Are the wobble chips cinsidered better for SD signals? The salesman at the local Tweeter told me the HLP466x was better on analog signals and the HLP467x was better on HD signals.
Yes, some people say that SD looks better on a wobble chip like the HD3 rather than a sharper chip like the HD2+ because the "smooth picture" helps to hide some of the flaws in SD material... On the other hand, they say the HD2+ looks better with HD material. Again, it's all personal preference.

Originally posted by AkaStp
Since when did the pixels in the HD2+ have eight sides (octagonal)? I thought they were square or rectangular (i.e. 4 sides).

before you pointed that out, I read the above post as saying "Orthogonal", which made sense, to me.

edit: seeing how there's been about 20 posts between mine and the quoted one, i believe my post has also become quite orthogonal.

Originally posted by bhchan
before you pointed that out, I read the above post as saying "Orthogonal", which made sense, to me.
OOPS...Sorry!! Yes, it's supposed to be "Orthogonal" NOT "Octagonal" ! :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Administrator
Yes, some people say that SD looks better on a wobble chip like the HD3 rather than a sharper chip like the HD2+ because the "smooth picture" helps to hide some of the flaws in SD material... On the other hand, they say the HD2+ looks better with HD material. Again, it's all personal preference.

Intersting. I just started a thread on this subject. This is confirming some of my premises.

Feel free, anyone to chime in on that thread.

Thanks.

I've been sitting 9 feet from a 55" CRT HDTV and am considering the 6168 (at 9 1/2 feet given the difference between the CRT and DLP depths).

I hope I haven't opted for too large a screen. I'll try it out once the sets are in showrooms.

We're on the eve of the biggest home theater expo in nyc!!!!
...Ok its the only one, but im still excited.

TM, sent u PM.
Anyone else who's gonna be there and want to meet up, pls send me a pm so i can send you my cell number.
Otherwise i'll just see everyone on Sat at the meet n greet.

Should be a fun show, im really excited to see these sets again.

K

Hell, I'm not going but you all have ME excited! :D

Originally posted by Ed Weinman
am considering the 6168 (at 9 1/2 feet given the difference between the CRT and DLP depths).

You'll love it! (And with 1080p, you could even go bigger at that distance.)

Hello, all. My first post. I'll have a viewing distance of 8 feet, and plan on buying the 6168. Considering all the information in this forum on the subject, incl the distance calculators provided, I feel this combination will provide a terrific home theatre experience!! In addition, I've spoken at length to a home theatre installer (resides in the bay area), who has installed over 500 home theaters, and his opinion is that he has not the slightest hint of a doubt that a 61" at 8' will provide an impressive cinematic experience. Very exciting - very much looking forward to it. It will be my first HD experience! :D

Originally posted by Ronnie 1.8
Hello, all. My first post. I'll have a viewing distance of 8 feet, and plan on buying the 6168. Considering all the information in this forum on the subject, incl the distance calculators provided, I feel this combination will provide a terrific home theatre experience!! In addition, I've spoken at length to a home theatre installer (resides in the bay area), who has installed over 500 home theaters, and his opinion is that he has not the slightest hint of a doubt that a 61" at 8' will provide an impressive cinematic experience. Very exciting - very much looking forward to it. It will be my first HD experience! :D

Wow, and here I was considering 50 or 56 inches at about 9.5 feet. 60+ inches at 8 feet?! Whew!

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
July. I honestly won't be surprised if it goes to early Fall. Just a hunch.

The above is in answer to BenDover's question, "Is June still the targeted date for the 1080p sets?". I seem to have read a few other posts in this thread that indicate the expected date for the 68 series may be later than June.

UCSB, does the expected date of June for the 68 series need to be updated in the first post?

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
Wow, and here I was considering 50 or 56 inches at about 9.5 feet. 60+ inches at 8 feet?! Whew!
I was considering the 56" at 8', and the installer I've been working with convinced me to go 61". One of the distance calculators in this string provided comforting support. I was a bit nervous about the 61", but now feel confident it will look great. As I said, this will be my first HD experience, and I've finally (after about 8 years - seriously) convinced my wife to spend a relatively sizable amount on a full theatre. I've given my budget to this installer I'm working with, and I've also told him the 6168 is mandatory, and he recommends/provides all other componets, power conditioner, DVD player, interconnects, speakers, universal remote, etc. He'll provide the entire installation, audio and video chain calibration, and program the remote to control the functionality of all components. You guys are about the only ones that understand my excitement!! I feel better than a little boy in a candy store!! :D :D (I've read every single post of every single page of this string.)

Originally posted by Ronnie 1.8
UCSB, does the expected date of June for the 68 series need to be updated in the first post? [/B]

No. To the best of my knowledge it is still accurate. Perhaps we will get some feedback from the show in NYC that started today.

Originally posted by Ronnie 1.8
I was considering the 56" at 8', and the installer I've been working with convinced me to go 61". One of the distance calculators in this string provided comforting support. I was a bit nervous about the 61", but now feel confident it will look great. As I said, this will be my first HD experience, and I've finally (after about 8 years - seriously) convinced my wife to spend a relatively sizable amount on a full theatre. I've given my budget to this installer I'm working with, and I've also told him the 6168 is mandatory, and he recommends/provides all other componets, power conditioner, DVD player, interconnects, speakers, universal remote, etc. He'll provide the entire installation, audio and video chain calibration, and program the remote to control the functionality of all components. You guys are about the only ones that understand my excitement!! I feel better than a little boy in a candy store!! :D :D (I've read every single post of every single page of this string.)

60-61 was my ceiling max on size. Guess I'll definitely keep this in mind.

The 55" CRT HDTV, with the lights out, had the impression of a movie screen and I was at a private showing! I loved it! (Too bad it died!) Thanks, millerwill, I really hope the 6168 is the one I want (this will be the first time ever that I have not had a CRT set).

I have approx. 15ft to the screen, and was considering a 61", since it looks like they may not make the 1080p in a 67", What do you think about going to a 70"- too large??

Originally posted by Ronnie 1.8
Hello, all. My first post. I'll have a viewing distance of 8 feet, and plan on buying the 6168. Considering all the information in this forum on the subject, incl the distance calculators provided, I feel this combination will provide a terrific home theatre experience!! In addition, I've spoken at length to a home theatre installer (resides in the bay area), who has installed over 500 home theaters, and his opinion is that he has not the slightest hint of a doubt that a 61" at 8' will provide an impressive cinematic experience. Very exciting - very much looking forward to it. It will be my first HD experience! :D

This will make your (View Distance)/(Screen Diagonal) ratio about 1.6 (8 ft/5 ft). This is about the same as I am planning on (10 ft for a 73" set). This is very close to the original 'design goal' of HD TV, a ratio of 1.5. It should be spectacular!

I've seen a lot of posts about ideal size vs. viewing distance, but I'm wondering about ideal height off the ground. Supposing I buy a 61" HDTV and sit 10' away, what's the ideal height for the bottom of the screen?

The reason this is an issue for me is that we have a babyproofing gate around the front of our TV area, and it's something like 2.5 or 3' high, so the bottom of the TV screen has to be above that. For our current non-big-screen TV it's fine, but if I get a taller TV, will I be craning my neck?

What sort of stand do you all suggest for the 5067? Where did you buy your stand? Anything special I should consider that may not be obvious to a first-time HD buyer?

Thanks in advance!

Originally posted by rictus
I've seen a lot of posts about ideal size vs. viewing distance, but I'm wondering about ideal height off the ground. Supposing I buy a 61" HDTV and sit 10' away, what's the ideal height for the bottom of the screen?

You want your eye level at the center of the screen. For say a HLR6168 this means that the stand should be no more than about 20 inches (give or take a couple of inches). You will note that the Samsung stand for the 61 & 67 sets is 17" (from TVA measurements they gave some time ago).

This thread TV Stand Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=431593&highlight=stand) while long, has a lot of good info on stands.

So... you thought you had it made once you decided what set to buy. As many have found out, deciding on a stand is almost as hard as deciding on the set. :D

Going back to the "smoothpicture" topic : with a contrast ration of 5000:1 at worst (and 10000:1 at best), how can the picture be anything but extra sharp ?

Another thing : on the press release from TI dated april 11th, this brand new chip that"s gonna be in the Sammy and the Mitsu has up to 2 Million micro mirrors, which means it should be 1:1 mirror to pixel ratio, not 960x1080 "wobulated" or is there any technical specificity that I cant get into this bird brain of mine ?

Originally posted by schaffer970
So... you thought you had it made once you decided what set to buy. As many have found out, deciding on a stand is almost as hard as deciding on the set. :D

ALMOST as hard???? My wife is letting me pick the TV (which I think will be easy), but she's vetoed every stand I've shown her!!!

Originally posted by FabFla
Going back to the "smoothpicture" topic : with a contrast ration of 5000:1 at worst (and 10000:1 at best), how can the picture be anything but extra sharp ?


This is something that will decide if I go for the 720p or the 1080p is the contrast ratio. Will 2000:1 compared to 5000:1 be a massive difference?

Any tips on figuring out this difference? Such as, what right now has the best contrast ratio as compared to something that has below average ratio? If I had to guess, it would be a CRT RPTV compared to a cheap LCD.

Originally posted by uiucsb
What sort of stand do you all suggest for the 5067? Where did you buy your stand? Anything special I should consider that may not be obvious to a first-time HD buyer?

Thanks in advance!

I too am considering a 46 or 50" tv (hopefully the 50"). I have a sectional couch that sits anywhere from 6.5' to 9.5' away from the tv now that is facing the wedge of the couch. The bad thing is that the tv now is in a corner and I need a stand that I can still place in the corner that won't stick out too far but still face the wedge. I found this tv stand that is fairly thin and wide enough: http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Nea-Moda-Wide-TV-Stand-220337-/sem/rpsm/oid/110765/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do
I think the main concern is getting a stand the isn't any more than 20" deep because for a DLP that is at most 17" deep, why getting anything bigger. I also own Polk RM6700 speakers that are only 3" wide. So I figure a 50" DLP is about 46-47" wide, plus 3" plus 3" plus an inch or two between the speakers and the tv (I plan on putting the speakers on the stand), that gives me a total of about 55" wide.

Originally posted by FabFla
Another thing : on the press release from TI dated april 11th, this brand new chip that"s gonna be in the Sammy and the Mitsu has up to 2 Million micro mirrors, which means it should be 1:1 mirror to pixel ratio, not 960x1080 "wobulated" or is there any technical specificity that I cant get into this bird brain of mine ?

That portion about "up to 2 million micro mirrors" is simply boilerplate about Texas Instruments. They are talking about a chip that is used only in projectors for movie theaters (it is actually a 3 chip design - go to www.dlp.com and watch the dlp demo, at the end of the video they talk about dlp cinema ).

Like religion and politics, there are a few home theater topics that I usually avoid discussing. These topics are rainbows, screen size, and viewing distance. These are areas where individual preferences and experiences vary widely. But, it seems to me that one important aspect of viewing distance has not been covered in the many posts on the topic so far. Specifically, if you use an approach where your 1080p viewing distance starts to approach 1.5x the screen diagonal, will the PQ even be viewable for SD material and standard DVD’s? Is the expectation that only 1080i material would be displayed, given the short viewing distances?

Originally posted by subwoofer
This is something that will decide if I go for the 720p or the 1080p is the contrast ratio. Will 2000:1 compared to 5000:1 be a massive difference?

Any tips on figuring out this difference? Such as, what right now has the best contrast ratio as compared to something that has below average ratio? If I had to guess, it would be a CRT RPTV compared to a cheap LCD.


After reading many user comments on this forum or others I came to this conclusion : a ratio below or around 1000:1 is often considered weak, disappointing, while 2500:1 and up is often referred to as great, sometimes spectacular. Based on that I imagine that 5000:1 must be unbelievable and 10000:1 cant be anything short of out of this world.

However I'd like to know the corresponding measurement for a CRT RPTV like the Philips 64PH9905 if anybody has that. Now that would speak to me. This set had such a contrast the image looked 3D most of the time. No "smoothpicture" there I tell ya.



schaffer970
"That portion about "up to 2 million micro mirrors" is simply boilerplate about Texas Instruments. They are talking about a chip that is used only in projectors for movie theaters (it is actually a 3 chip design - go to www.dlp.com and watch the dlp demo, at the end of the video they talk about dlp cinema )."

That's just great. Some lawyers must have had a load of fun walking the thin line between hype and lies... well time will tell how any more disappointing this thing can get.

Originally posted by schaffer970
That portion about "up to 2 million micro mirrors" is simply boilerplate about Texas Instruments. They are talking about a chip that is used only in projectors for movie theaters (it is actually a 3 chip design - go to www.dlp.com and watch the dlp demo, at the end of the video they talk about dlp cinema ).

In HP's new set announcement yesterday;

http://news.com.com/HP+unveils+high-definition+TV+line/2100-1041_3-5688847.html?tag=nefd.top

There is a wobulation statement: "The rear-projection TVs incorporate the wobulation technology, which jitters the projected image in a carefully controlled way that effectively replaces a single pixel with four."

It seems the new 1080 chips may have 1/4 the number of mirrors as pixels. How far can wobulation go?

Originally posted by DanPackMan
In HP's new set announcement yesterday;

http://news.com.com/HP+unveils+high-definition+TV+line/2100-1041_3-5688847.html?tag=nefd.top

From the above article: "Wobulation permits the 720p chip to display at the 1080p resolution, Schulz said."

Why does this statement seem both scary and disappointing to me? I guess we'll just have to wait and see if this is a giant step backward. (I wonder if their PR guy or the reporter screwed this up?)

New Samsung Press Release:


http://www.hwhpr.com/prclients/samsung/hes05/68series.html

Originally posted by DanPackMan
In HP's new set announcement yesterday;

http://news.com.com/HP+unveils+high-definition+TV+line/2100-1041_3-5688847.html?tag=nefd.top

There is a wobulation statement: "The rear-projection TVs incorporate the wobulation technology, which jitters the projected image in a carefully controlled way that effectively replaces a single pixel with four."

It seems the new 1080 chips may have 1/4 the number of mirrors as pixels. How far can wobulation go?

No, I am about 99.9% sure this is still the 960x1080 chip. HP has a patent pending for this technology which would overlap pixels in a right, down, left, up manner. I think people are thinking that this technology simply takes the information that would be in one pixel and moving it around. I believe that much more complex processing of the image is taking place prior to its being projected on the mirrors of the DLP and then moved.

Originally posted by donb1948
From the above article: "Wobulation permits the 720p chip to display at the 1080p resolution, Schulz said."

Why does this statement seem both scary and disappointing to me? I guess we'll just have to wait and see if this is a giant step backward. (I wonder if their PR guy or the reporter screwed this up?)

If you followed what CNET said about the Samsung sets during CES, you will know that CNET has a hard time getting/keeping their facts right.

Originally posted by Administrator
Yes, some people say that SD looks better on a wobble chip like the HD3 rather than a sharper chip like the HD2+ because the "smooth picture" helps to hide some of the flaws in SD material... On the other hand, they say the HD2+ looks better with HD material. Again, it's all personal preference.

Thanks,

Considering that 90% of my TV watching is still SD, and the wobulated chip based tv's are cheaper, it makes sense to me to go with that technology.

Are wobulated chip DLPs still considered to be sharper than LCD or CRT based RPTVs?

schaffer970
Last June HP announced both the 2X wobulation for DLP (available in 2005) and a 4X wobulation to be available later. I agree with your statement that their announcement yesterday, probably pertains to the 1080P chip other manufactures will be using.
Do you think they could pull off a 4X wobulation prior to the rest of the manufactures?

Here's another new Samsung Press Release on the 66/67 Series:

http://www.hwhpr.com/prclients/samsung/hes05/66-67series.html

And here's the main Samsung Home Entertainment Show 2005 Press Room:

http://www.hwhpr.com/prclients/samsung/hes05/

Originally posted by UCSB
Like religion and politics, there are a few home theater topics that I usually avoid discussing. These topics are rainbows, screen size, and viewing distance. These are areas where individual preferences and experiences vary widely.

You are absolutely correct that screen size/viewing distance is an individual preference and choice. I have simply thrown in my preference (for 'big and close') in a number of these discussions to provide one data point for others to be aware of. I fully appreciate that other people like it otherwise. I very much enjoy hearing what other people prefer, so I can try it out for comparison.

Originally posted by FrankV
New Samsung Press Release:


http://www.hwhpr.com/prclients/samsung/hes05/68series.html

Great post. I think the pricing is a bit higher than was expected, but at least they are sticking to the June/July availability dates for most of the models.

According to the new press releases (http://www.hwhpr.com/prclients/samsung/hes05/), the HLR5668W will be $200 more then the HLR5678W... Interesting.

I clicked on the small image of the HL-R5668W on the press release page, but it downloads a high-res image of the HL-R5688W instead. They are very large files with no info - photos only.

Yeah the pricing is higher than anticipated for the 68 models (in particular that I'm looking at the 6168). Is the contrast ratio the same for the 68 as the 88? They are still saying 10000:1 for 88 but don't state for the 68 models. I'm assuming its all the same guts?

Originally posted by Saluki
I clicked on the small image of the HL-R5668W on the press release page, but it downloads a high-res image of the HL-R5688W instead.
You're right, they have that link wrong. You can download the HIRES HLR5668W photo here:

http://www.hwhpr.com/prclients/samsung/hes05/HIRES/DLP/HL-R5668W.zip

Originally posted by MikeAlletto
Is the contrast ratio the same for the 68 as the 88? They are still saying 10000:1 for 88 but don't state for the 68 models. I'm assuming its all the same guts?
Yes, the contrast ratio is 10,000:1 for the 68, 78, and 88 Series. The light engine in the 88 Series is mounted vertically, so it may be a little different then the other sets. The internals of the 68 and 78 Series are identical.

Originally posted by Administrator
According to the new press releases (http://www.hwhpr.com/prclients/samsung/hes05/), the HLR5668W will be $200 more then the HLR5678W... Interesting.

Hmmm.....the $6200 MSRP on the 6768 is a bit disappointing--and seems unrealistic--especially in light of the fact that the Mits' 73727 (6" larger!) has been announced for Sept for an MSRP of $5800. This Mits and the Sammy 1080p's appear to have essentially the same features, and if the present HD2+ sets are any indication, their PQ's will be comparable (and good!). Usually, of course, one is able to negotiate a better 'deal' for Sammy's than for Mits, but still .... .

It is also wierd that the MSRP for the 5668 ($4500) jumps only by $300 with a 5" increase in screen size (to $4800 for the 6168), while an increase of 6" from the 6168 to the 6768 results in a $1400 price increment. Seems out of line. And it suggests that the 6168 is the best bang/buck for all of you interested in this size.

...no mention of the 78 series?...

Originally posted by schaffer970
If you followed what CNET said about the Samsung sets during CES, you will know that CNET has a hard time getting/keeping their facts right.

I like to refer to them as c/NOT.

Couple of rather interesting things in the announcement of the 1080p sets. First Samsung has gone to Generation 6 Light Engine. The CES press release talked about Generation 5. It will be interesting to see what the changes are. In that same line, Samsung has stuck with the 10,000 CR - interesting. Finally, no mention of the 78 series. I wonder if any decisions have been made?

Originally posted by Ed Weinman
...no mention of the 78 series?...
It mentions the HLR5678W in this press release:

http://www.hwhpr.com/prclients/samsung/hes05/66-67series.html

I've read the press releases and revised the pricing/delivery dates in POST #1. It looks like Samsung has decided to raise the prices on the 68 series, but leave the pricing on the 78 series close to what we expected. This means that the 78 series is now priced less than the 68 series. Plus, the announcement of the HLR5678W indicates that Samsung is moving forward with the 78 series.

Home Entertainment 2005: Day 1 (http://www.guidetohometheater.com/news/042805he/). Some interesting info on the Samsungs. They do mention a HLR5678 on display.

I've updated the light engine specs in POST #1 to show Generation 6 on both the 68 / 78 series.

Edit: and 88 series.

I've added the following to the 68 / 78 / 88 specs in POST #1:

* Dynamic Black Level - Mechanical Iris to control light and improve Contrast Ratio

Also, price on 5688 was increased.

My take on the fact that the 88 series will be released with the 68 / 78 series is that they have brought the 88 series in line with the performance and technology in the 68 / 78 series.

Hey Bill,

Here's some other stuff you can update in Post #1:

88 Series
- xHD4 <--Better guess then the xHD3 at this time.
- 10,000:1 Contrast Ratio
- TV Guide Electronic Program Guide (Needs To Be Confirmed) <--All HLR's will have the EPG except the 77 Series.

----------------------

87 Series
- TV Guide Electronic Program Guide (Needs To Be Confirmed) <--Again, all HLR's will have the EPG except the 77 Series.

----------------------

HLRxx77W

It says:
- Hybrid HLN / HLP Light Engine, DNIe (Video Enhancement)
Should be:
- Hybrid HLN Light Engine, DNIe (Video Enhancement)

And:
- NO TV Guide Electronic Program Guide (This Needs To Be Confirmed ... Check Manual) <--This set does not have the EPG.

I've added the link to the Samsung HES Press release and pictures page to the top of POST #1.

Originally posted by UCSB
This means that the 78 series is now priced less than the 68 series.

This is totally WEIRD. Really makes you wonder if they know what they're doing. What's the point of the xx78 series, the one that was supposedly designed for the upper end AV stores? Doesn't make any sense. Wish they would drop the 78 business altogether and just produce a 70" (or larger!!) set in the xx68 'floating screen' format.

Originally posted by Administrator
Hey Bill,

Here's some other stuff you can update in Post #1:

88 Series
- xHD4 <--Better guess then the xHD3 at this time.
- 10,000:1 Contrast Ratio
- TV Guide Electronic Program Guide (Needs To Be Confirmed) <--All HLR's will have the EPG except the 77 Series.

----------------------

87 Series
- TV Guide Electronic Program Guide (Needs To Be Confirmed) <--Again, all HLR's will have the EPG except the 77 Series.

----------------------

HLRxx77W

It says:
- Hybrid HLN / HLP Light Engine, DNIe (Video Enhancement)
Should be:
- Hybrid HLN Light Engine, DNIe (Video Enhancement)

And:
- NO TV Guide Electronic Program Guide (This Needs To Be Confirmed ... Check Manual) <--This set does not have the EPG.

Thanks, all updates have been made.

Originally posted by millerwill
This is totally WEIRD. Really makes you wonder if they know what they're doing. What's the point of the xx78 series, the one that was supposedly designed for the upper end AV stores? Doesn't make any sense. Wish they would drop the 78 business altogether and just produce a 70" (or larger!!) set in the xx68 'floating screen' format.

The announced 5678 price was at the old 5668 CES price. I wonder if someone just didn't get the word that the prices have been RAISED. I'll leave them lower in POST #1 until we hear differently, but everyone should use the 68 series pricing (for 78 series models) for their planning (just to be safe).

Originally posted by UCSB
Thanks, all updates have been made.
On the 88 Series, it now says:

DLP Chip: xHD4 --- as described in TI DLP brochure CLICK HERE (http://www.dlp.com/home_entertainment/images/DLP_TV_Guide.pdf)

But: That brochure says it's the xHD3 which is wrong. (That brochure was made 1-4-2005.)

Maybe you wanna remove that link or move it down by the "Preliminary Owners Manual" and explain that it was made before Samsung decided to "upgrade" the guts of the 5688.

Originally posted by Administrator
On the 88 Series, it now says:

DLP Chip: xHD4 --- as described in TI DLP brochure CLICK HERE (http://www.dlp.com/home_entertainment/images/DLP_TV_Guide.pdf)

But: That brochure says it's the xHD3 which is wrong. (That brochure was made 1-4-2005.)

Maybe you wanna remove that link or move it down by the "Preliminary Owners Manual" and explain that it was made before Samsung decided to "upgrade" the guts of the 5688.

Thanks, link removed. Plus, 6768 price corrected to $6,199.

They're really sticking to that AMAZING 10,000:1 Contrast Ratio?!

I'm thrilled to see the 88 series corrections here.

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
They're really sticking to that AMAZING 10,000:1 Contrast Ratio?!

I'm thrilled to see the 88 series corrections here.

The dynamic black feature in these new sets is probably the foundation of the 10,000:1 number. It is a mechanical iris that can open and shut letting out more or less light. Obviously, it probably has a range from totally closed to totally open. This could lead to great specs, but I'm wondering how will this capability translate to picture quality.

Well we're here at the show, TMSKILLZ, thanks again for the hookup.

Its much "lighter" than it was in yrs past. No sony,and other big vendors are missing.

Samsung has a great booth though, they have the 67 floater, 56 tabletop, and the 50 kirk, all in 1080p.

Heres the big news, u ready folks?

HTPC - DVI - HDMI input accepts 1920x1080p res.
Steve P himself ran a htpc through at that rez. Crazy overscan but it works, im sure this can be mad e to work with some of the custom timings and such.

Just want to get this in, I'll have more posts with the other info ppl wanted.
Not much to report ther im afraid.

Anyway, so hdmi takes a 1080p input from a htpc. More to follow.

K

Originally posted by kyungkim
Well we're here at the show, TMSKILLZ, thanks again for the hookup.

Its much "lighter" than it was in yrs past. No sony,and other big vendors are missing.

Most curious. I wonder why?... You would think Sony would have their $13,000 Qualia behemoth out there for all to see, right off the bat.





Samsung has a great booth though, they have the 67 floater, 56 tabletop, and the 50 kirk, all in 1080p.

Heres the big news, u ready folks?

HTPC - DVI - HDMI input accepts 1920x1080p res.
Steve P himself ran a htpc through at that rez. Crazy overscan but it works, im sure this can be mad e to work with some of the custom timings and such.


Anyway, so hdmi takes a 1080p input from a htpc. More to follow.

http://www.wackyweaselworld.com/flameINC/images/w10.jpg

WOW!!! The inputs go to 1080p?! That's GREAT NEWS!!!

Originally posted by kyungkim
Samsung has a great booth though, they have the 67 floater, 56 tabletop, and the 50 kirk, all in 1080p.
There's a 50" kirk in 1080p??

I just got back from the show.

I spoke directly with Steve, and he said the following:

5078 is definitely being produced, and the June/July date listed for relevant models is still on track.

He specifically said, and I am not making this up, that it was to be a 71", not 70" set for the 78 series. He may have misspoken, but I specifically asked if the 70" was going to be produced and he said yes, but it will be 71". I thought that was interesting.

He also SPECIFICALLY told me to tell everyone that gamers will be very happy with the systems, and that there would NOT be any lag problems.

Also, it was tough to tell whether there was a dramatic difference between the new HLR 720p set they had on display next to the 67" 1080p set, mostly because the contrast was turned up WAY too high on the 1080p model. This was combined with the fact that the brightness was probably a little too high on the 720p model. I would say that the contrast still did look better on the 1080p model. also, the picture did look smooth, but it was also very crisp at the same time, and I think this was probably largely because of the high contrast, better light engine, etc.

Also, the story on Dynamic Black, Steve said, would allow low light scenes to show dramatically better contrast.

He also said that he thought the VGA would accept 1080p, but that he would have to check the specs.

Just a quick note for that my personal opinion is that DVDs look pretty bad on these sets, largely because the display quality is so good that it uncovers so many flaws in the lower resolution spec of dvds. However, I think that the new 720p sets did a worse job at compensating for this than the 5688 (1080p) that was also showing a DVD.

Hope some of that helps.

Originally posted by Administrator
There's a 50" kirk in 1080p??

It was a 56" Kirk in 1080p. The only 50" 1080p will be the 5078

This is starting to feel like Christmas around here! :D

Originally posted by Clorox
It was a 56" Kirk in 1080p. The only 50" 1080p will be the 5078
I know that... That's why I was confused when kyungkim said this:

Originally posted by kyungkim
Samsung has a great booth though, they have the 67 floater, 56 tabletop, and the 50 kirk, all in 1080p.

Originally posted by Clorox
Just a quick note for that my personal opinion is that DVDs look pretty bad on these sets, largely because the display quality is so good that it uncovers so many flaws in the lower resolution spec of dvds. However, I think that the new 720p sets did a worse job at compensating for this than the 5688 (1080p) that was also showing a DVD.Well, that's not good. I have a rather large DVD library that I intend to keep for a long time. I hope we're talking "pretty bad" compared to what a HD source would look like as opposed to "pretty bad" compared to an SD CRT.

My first reactions on today's news...

Originally posted by Clorox

Just a quick note for everyone that is my personal opinion. DVDs look pretty bad on these sets, largely because the display quality is so good that it uncovers so many flaws in the lower resolution spec. However, I think that the 67 series did a worse job at compensating for this than the 5688 that was also showing a DVD.


I am not happy to hear this, 95%+ of my viewing is DVD. We all have a large investment in DVD content and I expect it to look as good as it does (not worse) on the upcoming sets (as compared with the current models, which people are very happy with!). Perhaps this will not be a real issue. Clorox's supposition that the display is soo good that it uncovers so many flaws is bullsh**t. Sorry, it might be true but it isn't a GOOD EXPLANATION. If these new sets can't display the same content at the same size with equal or superior quality than previous models then they are flawed. Perhaps the contrast ratio is too high (not likely they look good on CRTs) but the TV should compensate to present the format in the best possible way.

Also I am still skeptical of these 1080p through HDMI reports. Are there any independent sources of this info? It seems that Samsung was so sure of no 1080p and everyone had gotten used to that and there has been a lot of complaining. Hopefully they listen to us but I am not prepared to accept that, yet. Lets keep our fingers crossed.

The price increases wory me, I hope that this is just giving TVA more discount headroom so I can still expect to get a HLR5668 for about $4k on the powerbuy. The Costco deal on the 5674 continues to look very inviting.

Thanks everyone.

Originally posted by Clorox
5078 is definitely being produced, and the June/July date listed for relevant models is still on track.

June/July date for 5078 to come out. I think I can wait until then to get my first HDTV. Now I have to see how much they are compared to the 50" 720p sets.

Good to hear that lag won't be an issue with video games. Anyone know if lag will be an issue with the new 720p sets, such as the xx67?

1080p HDMI!

This is big news! It will be real interesting to see what all the HDMI inputs can do. Samsung appears to be really paying attention to everyone (console players, HTPC users and consumer electronics users). :D

If the adjustments on these displayed sets are incorrect than I'd temper my fears re: DVD performance on them until such time that a more reasonable, calibrated, demonstration will materialize. (I think!....)

John Jones raises some very questions and points across the boards. Let me get the excitement factor down on myself and come back to Earth.

IF this all holds and comes out true about the 1080p inputs...wouldn't that make these new Sammy DLP' the first of their kind?

Originally posted by John_Jones_CA
My first reactions on today's news...



I am not happy to hear this, 95%+ of my viewing is DVD. We all have a large investment in DVD content and I expect it to look as good as it does (not worse) on the upcoming sets (as compared with the current models, which people are very happy with!). Perhaps this will not be a real issue. Clorox's supposition that the display is soo good that it uncovers so many flaws is bullsh**t. Sorry, it might be true but it isn't a GOOD EXPLANATION. If these new sets can't display the same content at the same size with equal or superior quality than previous models then they are flawed. Perhaps the contrast ratio is too high (not likely they look good on CRTs) but the TV should compensate to present the format in the best possible way.

Also I am still skeptical of these 1080p through HDMI reports. Are there any independent sources of this info? It seems that Samsung was so sure of no 1080p and everyone had gotten used to that and there has been a lot of complaining. Hopefully they listen to us but I am not prepared to accept that, yet. Lets keep our fingers crossed.

The price increases wory me, I hope that this is just giving TVA more discount headroom so I can still expect to get a HLR5668 for about $4k on the powerbuy. The Costco deal on the 5674 continues to look very inviting.

Thanks everyone.

HLR5668 for 4K on the powerbuy, It better be the HLR6168 for 4K, if you look at the current powerbuy for the HLR6167 its about a $700 dollar savings. This is not even a true 1080P set. If the price is close to the raised MSRP I will just wait for the JVC true 1080P LCOS.

Originally posted by Ed Weinman
If the adjustments on these displayed sets are incorrect than I'd temper my fears re: DVD performance on them until such time that a more reasonable, calibrated, demonstration will materialize. (I think!....)

I think this is very good advice, we have all seen that incorrect calibration can make a bad set look better than the best set. It is just hard to wait when we have limited information we tend to put too much weight in it.

And I would just like to add that I am very, very excited about the prospect of reduced lag for the new sets, hopefully this will be aparent in the 720p sets so we get some reviews soon.

Rating my interest in the advancements of the new sets I would go like this...

1) CR 10,000!
2) No more Lag (my PS2 & Gamecube will be happy)
3) 1080i/720p -> 1080p
4) 1080p inputs? (for HTPC)

Originally posted by jkv4
HLR5668 for 4K on the powerbuy, It better be the HLR6168 for 4K, if you look at the current powerbuy for the HLR6167 its about a $700 dollar savings. This is not even a true 1080P set. If the price is close to the raised MSRP I will just wait for the JVC true 1080P LCOS.

Yes, I for one don't have the luxury; while the 68/78 series isn't as compact as the 74/77 series is they are my only hope of a 56" TV in my room. Every other manufacturer consistently wastes way too much space and some 50" sets won't even fit my space.

I am 'stuck' with Samsung so am trying to expect the worst (4K 56") price so I am pleasantly surprised with the good deal TVA is getting me, although with these higher MSRPs my plan isn't working so well :(

jkv4: Aren't these true 1080p sets if even the inputs except 1080p, as being reported? The JVC true 1080p LCOS is something a bunch of us will look into, I'm sure, but what's that going to cost?

What do you mean when saying "true 1080P?"




A little story from today, FWIW.

I went to a GOOD dealer about 30 minutes away from where I live. He carries, among other things, the Samsung DLPs. He had the current 50 incher on display in a living room setup that was what I would deem fairly realistic. It was the 60 series. Whatever that model number is.

The TV was NOT ISF calibrated, just tweaked a little bit using DVE. Something any of us could do.

This dealer was a straight shooter and honest. I was very impressed with him.

I spent an hour there looking at this TV with varying media from HD on down. The PQ was amazing. SD was pretty good, but you all know that on most HD's SD and analog is never going to look that great.

For laughs, the DVD player we used was some crappy Denon 910. That's hardly a state of the art DVD player. It was over component video. We did this on purpose so we could see just what the TV itself coudl do, in terms of scaling and performance.

That DVD PQ looked fantastic! I can't imagine one of these sets with a DVD player like my Onkyo DV-SP1000.

My point? It's all in the calibration, after a point. ;) I understand John's concerns and points all the way and agree with them.

If the new TV's are in any way better than what I experienced today...I really can't see how one can go wrong.

That's my $0.02. I'm stilll going to be exploring this ENTIRE display market for several months, at least, but based on what I saw today...the new 1080p DLP's have to be at near the top of my list.

Originally posted by John_Jones_CA
Yes, I for one don't have the luxury; while the 68/78 series isn't as compact as the 74/77 series

can someone give me a quick explaination as to why the 74/77 series are more compact that all the others? They look the same to me in size

Originally posted by subwoofer
can someone give me a quick explaination as to why the 74/77 series are more compact that all the others? They look the same to me in size

Thin bezel ... it saves several inches in width on the units. They are the most compact DLP's for their size. Compare the dimensions in POST #1.

Originally posted by subwoofer
can someone give me a quick explaination as to why the 74/77 series are more compact that all the others? They look the same to me in size
The bezel is .67" where the standard bezel is 1.38" on Samsung sets. Others may have larger bezels and side mounted speakers.

DNIe or other sharpening filters can cause mpeg artifacts to show up a lot more than if they were not turned on.

Originally posted by subwoofer
can someone give me a quick explaination as to why the 74/77 series are more compact that all the others? They look the same to me in size

The bezel around the screen on the 74/77 series is about 1/4" while the bezel around the screen on the 64/67/68 series is about 1 1/2" thus it is about 2 1/2" less wide than the others. The difference is fairly small, more easilly noticed in person than low-resolution JPEGs. RCA, Mitsu, JVC sets frequently use side mounted speakers rather than underneath mounted speakers (like anyone uses the darn TV speakers to BEGIN with!) which makes them considerably wider than the Samsungs.

I don't know why Samsung is abandoning the thin bezel. I believe it is because it requires modifications to the light engine that they would rather not make for a relatively small volume product (although for people who need the extra space it is highly desirable to save the extra 2" or so)

I think that the 78 series will be a failure in the sense that people who choose them over the 68 series will do so because of the dealer involved, or the size of set (50" & 70") not for the asthetics of the glossy bezel. Saturating everyone with 68 series in all sizes would probably be better but high end dealers expect something different from Best Buy (I would think greater size choices would be the prefered distinguishing point but no it is just the style of the set). At least we are away from the time of the HLN507W competing with the HLN5065W (same set different color bezel) so best buy and circuit city wouldn't have to price match one another. That was a nightmare.

Greetings,
I was at the show yesterday on a trade pass and also managed to spend some time with Steve Panosian. He was very amicable, although I didn't think it would be fair to monopolize his time since it was media day as well, even though I would have liked to have spent more time asking questions. I mentioned to him that I found it interesting that high ranking executives would work retail trade events, but he said he found the interaction quite beneficial in Samsungs marketing. I told him that after reading about him on this forum that actually speaking to him was like meeting a rock star. He appreciated the comment, and said that he does occasionally read this forum, and in fact it was the forum that help convince Samsung to do the board upgrade at a considerable expense several seasons ago.
I have to agree that I too found the 1080 displays to be not exactly what I was expecting in terms of pq. Due to the two different feeds they were using, you couldn't compare the 720 to the 1080 sets. Now I'm wondering if that was done on purpose. I would think that the displays would have been tweaked to their maximum potential, and maybe they are today when the show opens, or maybe what I was seeing was their best effort. I also found the nature of what they were showing to be curious, in that some of it was pretty graphic and violent. I guess I should have asked about that as well. The display area was more of a conference room, with dlp, lcd and plasma displays in a row on each wall. Other than two entertainment centers there were no decorations or accessories to their presentation.
Steve made it clear in his discussion that Samsung was very sensitive to the needs of gamers, and that there was not going to be any synch or lag issues with the new product. The new marketing alliance with Microsoft probably has something to do with that. He also said that once you go to 56" he would recommend the 1080 set over a 720, at least for the application I described to him for my circumstances. He also mentioned that the move away from the hd2+ chip was more of a financial consideration than a technical one, if I understood him correctly.
So, I left the show still not knowing which unit to go with, but at least convinced that Samsung was the right manufacturer.
b.

Thanks guys, thats what I figured but its only 2-3 inches total. But in my case this goes a long way cause I plan on getting a nice 55" or so wide stand so I can have a DLP tv on plus my 3" wide speakers.

Originally posted by John_Jones_CA
At least we are away from the time of the HLN507W competing with the HLN5065W (same set different color bezel) so best buy and circuit city wouldn't have to price match one another. That was a nightmare.
Actually, we're not. :(

That's the exact same thing they're doing with the 68 / 78 Series. They have the exact same guts, just a different cabinet. (Again, so stores don't have to price match.)

At least the model numbers aren't too close and there's a little more of a difference in appearance than just bezel color. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Bob4action
I was at the show yesterday on a trade pass and also managed to spend some time with Steve Panosian. He was very amicable...
I agree! Steve is a very helpful individual, especially for a Director of Marketing for such a large company like Samsung.

Originally posted by AkaStp
If I've read and understood the last couple of pages corrrectly...there WILL be a 5078 bit there will NOT be a 5068. Right? If that is the case...WTF are Samsung thinking by not having a 5068. From what I've seen of the 1080p sets from the photos posted here, I prefer the look of the "floating screen" version (xx68) rather than the black lacquer version (xx78) and I need a 50" size. Bummer! Why have a 5078 but not a 5068, especially as it is the 68s that will apparently be more widely available at discount B&Ms, etc. This decision of Samsung's make no sense (to me at least).
That's correct, only a 5078. No 5068. But that's what we've been told all along, so it shouldn't come as such as shock. There was never any mention from Samsung of a 5068. That's just something we speculated here in the forum.

They want the high-end retailers and custom installers to have "special" sets, so they're getting the 50" 1080p sets.

One little detail: How many TV's are showing the same signal at this show? In other words, how many ways is one signal being split? Certainly, in any number of stores, this has a major impact on PQ when you have on signal being split along 20 different TV's, for example.

Originally posted by subwoofer
Thanks guys, thats what I figured but its only 2-3 inches total. But in my case this goes a long way cause I plan on getting a nice 55" or so wide stand so I can have a DLP tv on plus my 3" wide speakers.

As you can tell from the picture I am attaching, the extra 2.5" can really change things when you want to maximize screen space in a tight space. Note that the current TV is a 32" 4:3 CRT and that the blank wall space to the left is not as deep as the notch next to the fireplace. (EDIT: That's an exterior wall) The HLR5668 will just barely fit in this space, and then I have to find a short stand that also fits or it won't fit vertically. The thin bezel would fit better but I can push it, but I will need a custom stand built. HELP :)

Bob, KyungKim,

can one of you back me up on this? I was watching some DVD movie with Asian warrior guys in it on the 5678 and a Jackie Chan movie on the 5688 sets as well as the 4267 set, and I definitely saw a grainy picture. I mean, it was definitely not what I was used to seeing from Hi-Def displays. I certainly left with the impression that the DLP sets had not been adjusted to sell the TVs capabilites very well. The 6768, which had the most people around it, was only playing HD (except when Steve was messing around with the HTPC for a little while) and looked good, although the contrast was way too high. This was evidenced by the fact that clouds displayed in one scene (girl walking on beach) and the water splashing in the same scene [jetski] just looked like bright white blobs, with no definition that distinguished the depth, color, lines of the various clouds that were at different distances, and did not distinguish one drop of water from another. You could tell it was too high, because a 720p set is sitting next to it showing the same feed clearly showing the detail and definition. This is proof positive that you really need to adjust these TVs yourself at a store to emulate your own optimal viewing environment.

Anybody see these TVs agree with my commentary? I still think these are great sets and I am definitely buying one, but I just found it odd that the DVDs looked grainy, so I am pretty sure that if the older models normally look crystal clear when properly calibrated, these TVs can only be better when adjusted.

KyungKim, did you actually check the connection on the Media Center PC setup to ensure it was HDMI being input to the set? I definitely saw the Overscan that Steve was experiencing with the setup, but I did not check the connection...

There have been posts that there is no xbox lag. Does this apply to both the 720p and 1080p models? Or is everyone referring to only the 1080p? The new 5067 had better not have lag!

Originally posted by AkaStp
If I've read and understood the last couple of pages corrrectly...there WILL be a 5078 bit there will NOT be a 5068. Right? If that is the case...WTF are Samsung thinking by not having a 5068. From what I've seen of the 1080p sets from the photos posted here, I prefer the look of the "floating screen" version (xx68) rather than the black lacquer version (xx78) and I need a 50" size. Bummer! Why have a 5078 but not a 5068, especially as it is the 68s that will apparently be more widely available at discount B&Ms, etc. This decision of Samsung's make no sense (to me at least).

I think it is important to remember that there is not a huge benefit to having a 1080p 50" set beyond 7 feet, so unless you are sitting extremely close to the TV, you really won't need the 1080p. The cost of making the 50" 1080p sets is probably just too high (and subsequently so is the retail price) so Samsung is keeping them sold by higher end retailers, like Tweeter, Magnolia. I think that makes sense, actually. Why would a customer by a 50" 1080p over a cheaper 720p set when it won't make a difference. Keep in mind, I am planning on getting the 5078 myself, even though I would prefer a 5068. I may spring for the 5668, though since most everyone here says to go one size larger if you can accomidate the space so you won't regret it in the future.

Clorox,
Yes, I'd confirm your observations. I was there in the middle of the afternoon yesterday, so I was willing to concede that they hadn't had the chance to tweak anything yet. I thought it would have been poor manners on my part to criticize anything. I also saw a clip from what I think was "Kill Bill" but since I hadn't seen either version I wasn't sure. Still, I thought the actual content of the display material was a strange choice indeed. Perhaps the new display is too far technically advanced from whatever the source material for it's own good?
b.

Okay, I just got back from the NY show and have the following observations. First, the most important info, the pricing reflected in the press release is WRONG! I spoke with a Senior Marketing Manager and he referred to a price list. I only asked about the 56" models and he said the MSRP of the 5668 would be $4199 and the "street price" should be $3999. He said presently the price of the 5678 is about $200 MORE than the 5668. He said there was no way that the 5678 would be less than the 5668. To sum it up, he said the press release was wrong and he was quite concerned about this.

I also asked him about whether the set would accept 1080p and he said he didn't think that change had been made, but he then deferred to Steve on this, but since Steve wasn't there he asked me to email him and hel'll respond. I'll follow up with this, but based on the earlier posts, I think Steve thinks it does accept 1080p. I'll also include some other questions in my email (e.g., pricing).

He also wasn't sure whether HDMI accepted 1080i and asked that I include that in my email.

One bummer, the remote sensor is on the front button and NOT in the screen. This negatively impacts custom installations. I'm not sure why they did this since in the 5674 it was moved from the button to the screen.

He also indicated that the "foot" will be on all of the floating screen designs larger than 56".

Finally, I agree with everyone else that a comparison of the two sets (720 and 1080) wasn't useful since they were not calibrated consistently.

Originally posted by RMSko
First, the most important info, the pricing reflected in the press release iis WRONG!

OK ... I'm going to leave the pricing where it is until we can sort this out.

Originally posted by RMSko
One bummer, the remote sensor is on the front button and NOT in the screen. This negatively impacts custom installations. I'm not sure why they did this since in the 5674 it was moved from the button to the screen.
Actually, on the HLM and HLN sets, the sensor is inside by the lens so you aim the remote at the screen and it hits the sensor... This design was not that great, because a lot of times, it didn't work right and you had to re-aim the remote and try again...

On the HLP models, they moved the sensor to the outside of the cabinet below the "front button" and that made the remotes much more accurate.

The HLPxx74W sensor didn't change because it was the exact same cabinet as the HLNxx7W Tantus ultra thin bezel. Same thing for the HLRxx77W. That's the reason why those sets still have the sensor inside next to the lens. (They're using a cabinet design from 2003.)

All new cabinets from HLP and up have the sensor on the outside below the button.

Originally posted by RMSko
Finally, I agree with everyone else that a comparison of the two sets (720 and 1080) wasn't useful since they were not calibrated consistently.

Did anyone ask if the the displayed TVs were production models, nearly complete preproduction models, or just the same old demos from CES in January. It seems critical to know what you are looking at before you can form conclusions. I'm also into photography and photographic reviewers always wait for final production cameras before evaluating performance.

I for one did not specifically ask. I did ask when the 1080 sets were shipping and was told June/July.
b.

Originally posted by AkaStp
But, IMHO, if they decided its worthwhile to offer (and hence manufacture) a 5078 they should have also offered a 5068.
But they want the higher-end retailers and custom installers to have something special to offer. That's why they did it that way.

Originally posted by RMSko
Okay, I just got back from the NY show and have the following observations. First, the most important info, the pricing reflected in the press release iis WRONG! I spoke with a Senior Marketing Manager and he referred to a price list. I only asked about the 56" models and he said the MSRP of the 5668 would be $4199 and the "street price" should be $3999. He said presently the price of the 5678 is about $200 MORE than the 5668. He said there was no way that the 5678 would be less than the 5668. To sum it up, he said the press release was wrong and he was quite concerned about this.

I also asked him about whether the set would accept 1080p and he said he didn't think that change had been made, but he then deferred to Steve on this, but since Steve wasn't there he asked me to email him and hel'll respond. I'll follow up with this, but based on the earlier posts, I think Steve thinks it does accept 1080p.

He also wasn't sure whether HDMI accepted 1080i and asked that I include that in my email.

One bummer, the remote sensor is on the front button and NOT in the screen. This negatively impacts custom installations. I'm not sure why they did this since in the 5674 it was moved from the button to the screen.

He also indicated that the "foot" will be on all of the floating screen designs larger than 56".

Finally, I agree with everyone else that a comparison of the two sets (720 and 1080) wasn't useful since they were not calibrated consistently.

Will the "foot" be removable on the 6168W??