Originally posted by RMSko
First, the most important info, the pricing reflected in the press release iis WRONG! I spoke with a Senior Marketing Manager and he referred to a price list. I only asked about the 56" models and he said the MSRP of the 5668 would be $4199 and the "street price" should be $3999. He said presently the price of the 5678 is about $200 MORE than the 5668. He said there was no way that the 5678 would be less than the 5668. To sum it up, he said the press release was wrong and he was quite concerned about this.
This makes sense. I was really confused to see that the 5668 was more expensive then the 5678.

I agree that the 5678 will be more expensive then the 5668. -Just wish we had the right prices.

Originally posted by RMSko
Okay, I just got back from the NY show and have the following observations. First, the most important info, the pricing reflected in the press release iis WRONG! I spoke with a Senior Marketing Manager and he referred to a price list. I only asked about the 56" models and he said the MSRP of the 5668 would be $4199 and the "street price" should be $3999. He said presently the price of the 5678 is about $200 MORE than the 5668. He said there was no way that the 5678 would be less than the 5668. To sum it up, he said the press release was wrong and he was quite concerned about this.

I also asked him about whether the set would accept 1080p and he said he didn't think that change had been made, but he then deferred to Steve on this, but since Steve wasn't there he asked me to email him and hel'll respond. I'll follow up with this, but based on the earlier posts, I think Steve thinks it does accept 1080p.

He also wasn't sure whether HDMI accepted 1080i and asked that I include that in my email.

One bummer, the remote sensor is on the front button and NOT in the screen. This negatively impacts custom installations. I'm not sure why they did this since in the 5674 it was moved from the button to the screen.

He also indicated that the "foot" will be on all of the floating screen designs larger than 56".

Finally, I agree with everyone else that a comparison of the two sets (720 and 1080) wasn't useful since they were not calibrated consistently.

Boy - am I the only one left hugely under-whelmed by the response to the 1080P sets at the NY show so far?? Whats going on man?

Originally posted by jkv4
Will the "foot" be removable on the 6168W??

I was told the foot will be removable, but to use caution since it could affect the balance of the set. However, I'm still not confident that he was correct about the foot on the 61" set and I've included that question in my follow up email to him.

Originally posted by wish_i_had_hdtv
Boy - am I the only one left hugely under-whelmed by the response to the 1080P sets at the NY show so far?? Whats going on man?

I agree. It just amazes me that these companies spend all of this money on these trade/consumer shows & make so little effort to do basic calibration of the displays.

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
jkv4: Aren't these true 1080p sets if even the inputs except 1080p, as being reported? The JVC true 1080p LCOS is something a bunch of us will look into, I'm sure, but what's that going to cost?

What do you mean when saying "true 1080P"



Q,

The TI chips are not 1920X1080 rather 960 x 1080 matrix of mirrors that work with another moving mirror to produce 1920x1080 on the screen. JVC 1080P LCOS chips are 1920X1080 thats what I am referring to "true 1080p". Who knows the Samsung might end up looking better than the JVC but the reason Samsung is using this chip is because its "cheaper" than a true 1080p. I think you will be able to get the JVC for around $5500 for the 61inch this Fall. So I would be willing to pay the extra $500-$700 if the reports on the increase in the Samsung are true. I know one thing is for sure it is going to be a long summer.

Originally posted by wish_i_had_hdtv
Boy - am I the only one left hugely under-whelmed by the response to the 1080P sets at the NY show so far?? Whats going on man?

This is a bit of a simplification. The sets I viewed were running through component and I don't think it was great source material. Add to that the fact that the sets were in a huge room, it doesn't make for a great comparison. I don't think anyone was saying they were disappointed in the set, all I was trying to say is that I was disappointed in the source material and the lack of consistent calibrations. For example, the 720 set had brightness turned way up and looked washed out, so if I were to base my comparison on what I viewed, it's not even close, the 1080 set looked much better. However, I am certain that it was due to the brightness setting and not the performance of the set. Consequently, there was no way to compare the sets. On that point I was disappointed, not on the set itself.

Originally posted by Saluki
I agree. It just amazes me that these companies spend all of this money on these trade/consumer shows & make so little effort to do basic calibration of the displays.

My little experience earlier today that I wrote about underscores that even more.

This dealer had taken the time to calibrate the Sammy 50 inch, 60 series TV that I saw (current generation.)

When even a cheap, entry level DVD player can produce the kind of PQ I saw on that today, thanks to some calibration via DVE that we all can do...I'm pretty confident that these are good products. If the 1080p's are clearly better than what I saw today, I just don't know how I can go wrong barring a major FUBAR of manufactering or bad luck.


Originally posted by jkv4
Q,

The TI chips are not 1920X1080 rather 960 x 1080 matrix of mirrors that work with another moving mirror to produce 1920x1080 on the screen. JVC 1080P LCOS chips are 1920X1080 thats what I am referring to "true 1080p". Who knows the Samsung might end up looking better than the JVC but the reason Samsung is using this chip is because its "cheaper" than a true 1080p. I think you will be able to get the JVC for around $5500 for the 61inch this Fall. So I would be willing to pay the extra $500-$700 if the reports on the increase in the Samsung are true. I know one thing is for sure it is going to be a long summer.

This I did not know. Thanks for the explanation!

At this rate, I probably am not going to purchase anything whatsoever until well into Fall. (Besides, I need to save up the money.)

Originally posted by AkaStp
If I've read and understood the last couple of pages corrrectly...there WILL be a 5078 bit there will NOT be a 5068. Right? If that is the case...WTF are Samsung thinking by not having a 5068. From what I've seen of the 1080p sets from the photos posted here, I prefer the look of the "floating screen" version (xx68) rather than the black lacquer version (xx78) and I need a 50" size. Bummer! Why have a 5078 but not a 5068, especially as it is the 68s that will apparently be more widely available at discount B&Ms, etc. This decision of Samsung's make no sense (to me at least).

I too can only go as big as 50". However I think that its a poor argument to make that you wouldn't get the xx78 because of its look and that it doesn't have the floating screen. I'm not looking at that, I only care about the size and quality of the picture. Nuff said

But you make a good point about the xx78 not being available at B&M stores, is this true? So could I still get it at Tweeter or would I only be able to purchase it online? I'm confused a bit on this one

Originally posted by subwoofer
But you make a good point about the xx78 not being available at B&M stores, is this true? So could I still get it at Tweeter or would I only be able to purchase it online? I'm confused a bit on this one
Yes, Tweeter is a high-end retailer and will carry the 78 Series. Chain stores like Best Buy will not - They will carry the 68 Series.

Originally posted by UCSB
Did anyone ask if the the displayed TVs were production models, nearly complete preproduction models, or just the same old demos from CES in January. It seems critical to know what you are looking at before you can form conclusions. I'm also into photography and photographic reviewers always wait for final production cameras before evaluating performance.

I was told that they are pre-production models.

Originally posted by Saluki
I agree. It just amazes me that these companies spend all of this money on these trade/consumer shows & make so little effort to do basic calibration of the displays.

I must admit that I have only attended one consumer electronics trade show, that being this current one in NYC, but from what I saw most manufacturers didn't spend a fortune on their presentation. Think bare bones product set up in a barren hotel meeting room and you get a pretty accurate picture. It wasn't what I was expecting...

Originally posted by BenDover
I was told that they are pre-production models.
BenDover,

Were you at the show? Do you have any additional info or comments about the sets? Thanks.

Usually shows that the manufacturers rent hotel suits and meeting rooms aren't very large or flashy shows. They aren't anything like the large ones in the huge auditoriums like comdex and shows like that.

I went to one in Chicago a few years ago and while it was cool, it definitely wasn't flashy. Most of the rooms were filled with snobby stuck up types who wouldn't give me the time of day. For all those types of manufacturers I only have one thing to say:

"I've got money now and you aren't gonna see any of it."

Originally posted by AkaStp
Apparently Best Buys that have Magnolias embedded in them will carry higher-end sets so perhaps they'll carry the 78 series.
Yes, Magnolia stores should get the 78 Series.

Maybe someone with that Samsung Marketing director's e-mail should shoot him an e-mail about how underwhelmed people attending the show are and ask him if he can get the display models calibrated for the weekend? Since he said they read AVS occasionally, I'm sure he understands that a lot of people make buying decisions based on what they read here... just a thought.

edit: Can someone attending this weekend ask if the "dynamic black" feature is defeatable? TIA...

One thing about the NY show is that it was debateable whether it was actually going to be on as of one month ago. No sure on the reason, I know the SF show was cancelled because of the union strike.

Originally posted by RMSko
This is a bit of a simplification. The sets I viewed were running through component and I don't think it was great source material. Add to that the fact that the sets were in a huge room, it doesn't make for a great comparison. I don't think anyone was saying they were disappointed in the set, all I was trying to say is that I was disappointed in the source material and the lack of consistent calibrations. For example, the 720 set had brightness turned way up and looked washed out, so if I were to base my comparison on what I viewed, it's not even close, the 1080 set looked much better. However, I am certain that it was due to the brightness setting and not the performance of the set. Consequently, there was no way to compare the sets. On that point I was disappointed, not on the set itself.

RMSko,

I am with you on this, and I agree the source material was poor. For the sets playing "DVD"s, these were definitely not standard DVDs, since they had watermarks on them with Samsung logos, DNIe logose, etc. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't have looked good anyway, but the source could definitely have been a contributing factor. I found the HD source material to be of adequate quality, however, not as good as the fish and insects and flowers they were showing on the LCD and plasma sets. The calibration for the 67" 1080p and 56" 720p side by side was definitely poor. The brightness was for sure too high on the 720p as you said. Let's wait and see what others say tomorrow and Sunday. At least we know these were pre-production models, FWIW.

Originally posted by Clorox
RMSko,

I am with you on this, and I agree the source material was poor. For the sets playing "DVD"s, these were definitely not standard DVDs, since they had watermarks on them with Samsung logos, DNIe logose, etc. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't have looked good anyway, but the source could definitely have been a contributing factor. I found the HD source material to be of adequate quality, however, not as good as the fish and insects and flowers they were showing on the LCD and plasma sets. The calibration for the 67" 1080p and 56" 720p side by side was definitely poor. The brightness was for sure too high on the 720p as you said. Let's wait and see what others say tomorrow and Sunday. At least we know these were pre-production models, FWIW.

These very same pre-production models were described as "stunning" and "unbelievable" when they were shown at CES in January - by some of the early contributors to this thread.

I think your somewhat damning review should be forwarded to Steve P of Samsung for sure.

I am committed to waiting for thse sets to show up in stores in June/July but by then it will be too late to the HLP xx74 series. :-(

Oh well.... If these DLPs don't match up in PQ, I will look at Plasmas.

Originally posted by wish_i_had_hdtv
These very same pre-production models were described as "stunning" and "unbelievable" when they were shown at CES in January - by some of the early contributors to this thread.

I think your somewhat damning review should be forwarded to Steve P of Samsung for sure.

I am committed to waiting for thse sets to show up in stores in June/July but by then it will be too late to the HLP xx74 series. :-(

Oh well.... If these DLPs don't match up in PQ, I will look at Plasmas.

If these go down, then I guess I'm looking at LCD or LCoS. I wish SED were here now.

Any word on OLED?

Originally posted by Clorox
He also SPECIFICALLY told me to tell everyone that gamers will be very happy with the systems, and that there would NOT be any lag problems.

YEAH, BABY!! I can't even imagine how good games on the next-gen Xbox are going to look!! :D

Don't forget the JVC 1080P D-ILA's coming this fall showed much better at the CES than these Samsung 1080P's. The JVC's will have true 1920x1080 chips.

Originally posted by schaffer970
1080p HDMI!

This is big news! It will be real interesting to see what all the HDMI inputs can do. Samsung appears to be really paying attention to everyone (console players, HTPC users and consumer electronics users). :D
What is HTPC? Thanks.

Can anyone attending the HES show in NY confirm that the height dimensions for the Samsung HLR-5668W and HLR-5678W DLP's are 37.9" high? I was hoping maybe the new models were a little bit smaller in height.

HTPC = Home Theater PC

See this area on the forum: Home Theater Computers (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=26) :)

Originally posted by Ronnie 1.8
What is HTPC? Thanks.

Home theater personal computer ... a computer system setup and connected to your HDTV.

Hey Bill, apparently I can type ever so slightly faster than you can. :D

Lots of exciting information today. I keep hoping the sets will show up on the FCC site soon so we can try and glean a bit more information from that source.

Originally posted by gazelle
Don't forget the JVC 1080P D-ILA's coming this fall showed much better at the CES than these Samsung 1080P's. The JVC's will have true 1920x1080 chips.

Maybe, but it is a JVC. Ick!

I have sworn to myself, never to buy another JVC product as long as I live.

John

For anyone attending the show over the weekend please ask if any of the larger new models will have a center channel shelf.
Thanks

I got my new HLR4677 DLP set today. Just watched it for an hour
with various settings. I think i like the tv. Here is my first impressions:

1.The picture is good but at time I see that it is showing the picture a little darker. May be it is due to the daylight? Does the temperature
settings (cool, warmw, warm2) really help in setting a better picture?

2. How do I check the bulb usage on the TV? I do not see it in the menu?

3. When I mute the TV, I can hear th e fan noise. Is this the fan for cooling
the lamp. or is this sound comming from the color-wheel inside. Also,
when the tv is switched off, I hear the fan noise for about a minute
( aphamplet from the booket pag says it is normal for the TV fan to be
on for anothe minute to make the blulb cool before the fan goes of).

4.S-video on my old Sony DVD seems to be ok, but when i connected
Samsung HD850 DVD with HDMI, it seems more clear but I am not sure
it is very very clear like HDTV? Which are better upconverting DVD players for
this set?

More later.

Thanks

baba160, I can help you with a few of those.

1.) Get your hands on a copy of Digital Video Essentials or some other calibrating disc ASAP!

3.) That's normal.

4.) I'd recommend a good solid progressive scan player if you're going to stay below $500 and let the TV's scaling and circuitry tackle the DVD image, otherwise for a nice TV like that, I'd recommend something a bit higher up the food chain then the Samsung 850.

Browse around the DVD forum here and see what gets your attention. ;)


Originally posted by jpoet
Maybe, but it is a JVC. Ick!

I have sworn to myself, never to buy another JVC product as long as I live.

John

JVC and Panasonic both have the same parent company if I'm not mistaken. Panasonic is still a pretty good company, the last time I checked. Wouldn't that "carry over" to JVC, or does it not matter?

Originally posted by schaffer970
Hey Bill, apparently I can type ever so slightly faster than you can. :D

Lots of exciting information today. I keep hoping the sets will show up on the FCC site soon so we can try and glean a bit more information from that source.

:) yep.

Sorry for the mistake on my earlier post, it def was a 56 kirk 1080p.

The setup at the show was def not ideal.
Clorox, the units running dvds definitely looked like crap.
The 56 table top was being fed from a dvd-vhs combo player, the kirk was being fed a similarly crappy player.

Anyone considering these sets should definitely include an hdmi/dvi upconverting player in their budget. I know from first hand experience that a better dvdv player will eliminate the false contouring, graininess and other pq problems with dlp sets and dvds.

Other setup problems at the show, the reps were going around and constantly dialing up the picture settings to dynamic. I complained about this and they said its because ppl were complaining that these sets werent as bright the "x" tv they just saw. Sure enuff when he dialed it down to movie on the 67 incher, someone behind us "eww that ones not very bright".

The 67in was being fed a signal from a sencore thru a distrib amp that was split with the 50in 720p set next to it.

The 67 also had the hp media pc attatched which Steve P was having problems with. Its during this setup where he ran 1920x1080p over hdmi. Again he had lots of overscan and crazy pixellatio running the demo, but he was def running hdmi, (according to him). I suspect the little media pc didnt have the ballz to run 1080p wmv demos, just my opinion since i wasnt there when he ran it.

So thats the deal on the setup, i'll post again with my impressions on pq rbe and other fun stuff.

Back to the 1080p over hdmi, HP is also planning on a 1080p dlp set, i'll post pics soon. The rep there also confirmed running their media pc over hdmi at 1080p.

So at CES everyone poo poo'd 1080p on hdmi, but here 2 reps "confirmed" this works on current sets.

more coming....

Heres a pic of the jack pack on the 56. Should be identical on all the 1080p sets.

I don't know what the right answer is, but when I was at the show and asked the rep specifically whether the 1080p sets can accept a 1080p input, the rep said no, only 1080i. Sure it is displaying 1080p, but couldn't accept a 1080p source. I'm not surprised at the confusion; it was basically like going into a chain electronics store and talking to a salesman...I would have expected these guys to be on top of their game. My first time at a show like this so maybe my expectations were too high.

To further illustrate my point, I was told there was only one 1080p set in the room.

Originally posted by kyungkim
Heres a pic of the jack pack on the 56. Should be identical on all the 1080p sets.

Thanks kyungkim ... I've added a link to the photo in both the 68 / 78 series sections of POST #1. Nice quality photo... did you get a new camera?

Originally posted by kyungkim

The 67 also had the hp media pc attatched which Steve P was having problems with. Its during this setup where he ran 1920x1080p over hdmi. Again he had lots of overscan and crazy pixellatio running the demo, but he was def running hdmi, (according to him). I suspect the little media pc didnt have the ballz to run 1080p wmv demos, just my opinion since i wasnt there when he ran it.

It would have been nice to see that Terminator 2 demo off that Media Center Edition PC. Steve was messing around with it a lot when I was there as well. I just figured might as well give up if it's not working and show the HD feed instead of taking all the time to mess around with something that clearly wasn't working. Too bad, but it was nice to see the display in general, and I was very surprised at the slim depth given the display size

I also thought it was interesting that they weren't able to get it (The Media Center PC) working beforehand. Not to knock Samsung or Steve or anything (the products were great to see firsthand, and Steve was definitely making the effort to answer questions, and without really trying to PUSH the sets on people). I just figured that it would be a pretty sweet thing to show customers, so might as well work with an engineer or someone else beforehand to be 100% sure that it would work. I must say, however, that Steve was apologetic about the fact that he couldn't get the MCE PC to work with the display, and that he was making a serious effort to show off the capabilities. He definitely seemed to be putting enough effort into trying to show it off that it must be quite awesome when it actually works.

Originally posted by kyungkim
Heres a pic of the jack pack on the 56. Should be identical on all the 1080p sets.

I thought these sets were suppose to have a firewire input, but I didn't see one on the back in the picture. Is this something that's on the side of the set instead or did they not have one?

Originally posted by CGULL999
I thought these sets were suppose to have a firewire input, but I didn't see one on the back in the picture. Is this something that's on the side of the set instead or did they not have one?

I believe that's what the jacks labeled "D-NET" in the bottom center of the picture are.

Yes, "D-NET" is what Samsung calls firewire/1394 (and any of the other names out there).

I will be digesting the info from HES in NYC and making a few updates to POST #1. I will be adding the changes over the next few days. Thanks to TMSKILZ, KYungKim, Clorox, BenDover, and anyone that I may have missed.

Update #1:

I added the new 71" series 78 model, the HLR7178W. I deleted the HLR7078W. I left the photos of the 7078 in place because they should approximate the new 7178.

I will be digesting the info from HES in NYC and making a few updates to POST #1. I will be adding the changes over the next few days. Thanks to TMSKILZ, KYungKim, Clorox, BenDover, and anyone that I may have missed.

Update #2:

I am going to leave the spec in place that says that 1080p will not be supported on the HDMI input. Even though Samsung was attempting to demonstrate 1920x1080 input on the HDMI input, I believe that they were trying to get a 1080i input from a HTPC (MS WMC) working. I do believe that 1080i input from a HTPC will work on the HDMI input if you have the right video card and settings. Which, of course, we will. Steve P. confirmed that 1080p will not be supported.

Update #3:

I have added the following sentence to the opening paragraph in the 1080p section.

In fact, Samsung has lead us to believe that the internal components on the 68 series, 78 series, and the 88 series pedestal model are all based on the same technology.

Originally posted by BenDover
I don't know what the right answer is, but when I was at the show and asked the rep specifically whether the 1080p sets can accept a 1080p input, the rep said no, only 1080i. Sure it is displaying 1080p, but couldn't accept a 1080p source. I'm not surprised at the confusion; it was basically like going into a chain electronics store and talking to a salesman...I would have expected these guys to be on top of their game. My first time at a show like this so maybe my expectations were too high.

To further illustrate my point, I was told there was only one 1080p set in the room.


Bendover funny username, LOL! I've used that name many times during crank calls to fellow workers @ the Hotel I work @. Works like a charm. Never fails!

You were misinformed, there were 3 1080p sets, the 68 series, the 78 series & the 88 Capt kirk series in the corner. Your statement is why i waited to speak with Steve & John Lavole, instead of the other Rep's roaming the show floor.

Originally posted by BenDover
I don't know what the right answer is, but when I was at the show and asked the rep specifically whether the 1080p sets can accept a 1080p input, the rep said no, only 1080i. Sure it is displaying 1080p, but couldn't accept a 1080p source. I'm not surprised at the confusion; it was basically like going into a chain electronics store and talking to a salesman...I would have expected these guys to be on top of their game. My first time at a show like this so maybe my expectations were too high.

To further illustrate my point, I was told there was only one 1080p set in the room.

My conversation was with Steve P himself while he was trying to get the media pc to work with the 1080p unit. I did walk up to him while he was adjusting the screen rez on the computer, he was getting lots of overscan on every resolution. He had the slider set at 1280x024 at that point. I noticed the slider on this machine at 1280 was set at the middle of the scale and there seemed to be many points to the right of this, indicating the machine could output much higher rez,

When I caught up with Steve later, i asked him what the maximum resoultion that the set would take over VGA, since i was convinced that the hdmi res was no larger than 1080i. He said he didnt know and he was pretty sure it could take 1080p over vga. He then perked up and said that it would take 1080p over hdmi. Thats when i did the double take and asked him again. He said yes, earlier he had tried the slider every which way including 1080p. I repeated, 1920x1080p over dvi-hdmi? I asked him this question maybe 4 times all together in different wording.. each time he said yes. I should have asked him to demonstrate for me right then and there, but i knew he was working on this earlier and did see him changing resolutions to different settings. I cant imagine him making this up.

There could be a few conclusions here- he was wrong, it very could have been connected over vga, or maybe the setting was 1080i on the slider, i dont know. Maybe i misunderstood his answer or he misunderstood my question... but again i asked him this worded several different ways.

Bill i think its wise to keep the official word at no until further confirmation, but i think 1080p over hdmi could be a possibility for htpcs. This could be the same situation as the early days of dvi, where the mfg swore it would not support anything higher than 1024x768. This was usually because higher rez caused lots of problems from overscan to tearing. But many tweakers on the htpc forum figured out pixel perfect timings to send over dvi at the native resolutions. I just see a pattern here where they might deny official support of this due to the same issues as before and it wont be until we have these in the hands of htpc gurus (not me!) to really figure it all out.

Well, I guess the bubble burst. I was hoping I would be able to input 1080P from an external scaler. I guess we will know in a couple of months.

Well I broke down yesterday and finally purchased a TV. I went with the 56" 67W, it'll be delivered on May 27th. That is a very long time to wait so until then I'll be keeping my eye on the thread here as well as on Sony to see if they launch the E and A series of TV's I've heard so much about. I do, however, think this is the right TV for me and I'm very excited to get it home and all setup. I also purchased the new 30" SlimFit CRT for my bedroom, hopefully that set is equally as amazing. Both will have HD srouces, the 5667W will also function as a computer monitor so I will be putting these sets through their paces early on so I should be able to post some pictures and results that weekend.

I'll probably be posting in here a lot more now, however it's going to take a while to catch up w/ the 2600+ posts.

Later ya'll...

~Lance

Originally posted by schaffer970
Yes, "D-NET" is what Samsung calls firewire/1394 (and any of the other names out there).


Ooops, I missed that. Thanks!

If Samsung is still talking about June/July for their 68 AND 78 series sets (but I'm expecting it to be later), it would seem that we should be getting more info about them. E.g., the dimensions we have for the 7078--which has now been morphed into the 7178--have always seemed out of line with those of other sets with the same cabinet style. For planning purposes, it would certainly be helpful to know what the actual dimensions are.

Originally posted by aaronwt
Well, I guess the bubble burst. I was hoping I would be able to input 1080P from an external scaler. I guess we will know in a couple of months.

I honestly had to figure it was too good to be true, although it sure would be a wonderful "future proofing/peace of mind" move, if it could be done.

No flames, please, but I'm wondering if any hardcore Sammy fans (as I am) had a chance to check out any Sammy plasmas at the NYC show.

With the price of the new 50" HP-R5052 (1366x768) supposedly US$5000 MSRP (approx. $1K more than 50" 1080p DLPs), wouldn't it be prudent to give their plasmas a look?

Considering Sammy plasma: no bulb, no fan noise, no color wheel, no lag for gaming, CR 3000:1, 60,000 hr panel life, burn-in near CRT levels, extremely bright (1300 cd/m2), plus a beautiful Sammy set...

There were no threads re the show in the plasma forum, so I figured I'd catch more Sammy people here.

Thanks.

--Ernie

Originally posted by ErnieW
No flames, please, but I'm wondering if any hardcore Sammy fans (as I am) had a chance to check out any Sammy plasmas at the NYC show.

With the price of the new 50" HP-R5052 (1366x768) supposedly US$5000 MSRP (approx. $1K more than 50" 1080p DLPs), wouldn't it be prudent to give their plasmas a look?

Considering Sammy plasma: no bulb, no fan noise, no color wheel, no lag for gaming, CR 3000:1, 60,000 hr panel life, burn-in near CRT levels, extremely bright (1300 cd/m2), plus a beautiful Sammy set...

There were no threads re the show in the plasma forum, so I figured I'd catch more Sammy people here.

Thanks.

--Ernie

As long as you know what you're getting into with plasma, and how to steer the current right, sure it sounds very prudent to check those plasmas out, based on what you're saying.

Originally posted by kyungkim
Bill i think its wise to keep the official word at no until further confirmation, but i think 1080p over hdmi could be a possibility for htpcs. This could be the same situation as the early days of dvi, where the mfg swore it would not support anything higher than 1024x768. This was usually because higher rez caused lots of problems from overscan to tearing. But many tweakers on the htpc forum figured out pixel perfect timings to send over dvi at the native resolutions. I just see a pattern here where they might deny official support of this due to the same issues as before and it wont be until we have these in the hands of htpc gurus (not me!) to really figure it all out.

I'm going to leave the spec's at NO 1080p over HDMI, but personally I think that 1080i will definitely work and that hopefully the Samsung engineers will get 1080p working by the time these units ship.

The Sony A-series of LCD RP sets is not due out until "summer" which would imply a July ship date at best, and perhaps as late as September.

I would love to conduct a shoot-out between the Samsung 5067 & 5078, Sony E50A10 and Panasonic 52LCX65. Then estimate the value each provides for the price being asked.

I guess I can do this, if I'm willing to wait a few months.

Interesting picture and comments here about the Samsung dlp's: HE2005 Day 2: Scott Wilkinson (http://www.guidetohometheater.com/news/042905hesw/). Scott is with Ultimate AV - one of the HE2005 show sponsors.

Are you all getting the idea along with me that waiting until Fall or so, to make a move or a purchase, would be mightily prudent?

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
Are you all getting the idea along with me that waiting until Fall or so, to make a move or a purchase, would be mightily prudent?
Given my background I have to agree. ;)

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
Are you all getting the idea along with me that waiting until Fall or so, to make a move or a purchase, would be mightily prudent?

Agree. For me, it's going to be between the Sammy 7178 and the Mits 73727. Can't wait to see them side by side at MagHiFi.

Originally posted by subwoofer
I too can only go as big as 50". However I think that its a poor argument to make that you wouldn't get the xx78 because of its look and that it doesn't have the floating screen. I'm not looking at that, I only care about the size and quality of the picture. Nuff said



I think it's a poor argument to criticize another's taste, since taste is so personal. I find the glossy black bezel VERY distracting when trying to watch the screen. It also shows fingerprints, scratches, etc. Also, my TV is not ON all the time, so its appearance is important.

Originally posted by UCSB
I'm going to leave the spec's at NO 1080p over HDMI, but personally I think that 1080i will definitely work and that hopefully the Samsung engineers will get 1080p working by the time these units ship. Considering that the first 1080p capable HDMI transmitters and recievers were just announced by Silicon Image in March, they'd need to use a different HDMI reciever than the one in the original design of the set. I would think something like that would be a rather painless change, however.

Was recently informed that Neil is in NY checking it out for himself. The word is that the 1080P model looks even better than it did at the CES convention! It's right around the corner...june/july....If we get more information we will keep you informed ;)

We have been getting more interest on the preorders since the dates are getting closer! Make sure you get on the list & don't let your buddy get it before you :)


Regards,
Cambryn

Originally posted by schaffer970
Interesting picture and comments here about the Samsung dlp's: HE2005 Day 2: Scott Wilkinson (http://www.guidetohometheater.com/news/042905hesw/). Scott is with Ultimate AV - one of the HE2005 show sponsors.

Further down in the Ultimate AV article is a note concerning future HP 1080p dlp displays. It mentions a 150 watt DC UHP lamp for improved whites and accurate colors. Anyone has any specifics on this goody. More specifically, is it used in the Samsung models.

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
Are you all getting the idea along with me that waiting until Fall or so, to make a move or a purchase, would be mightily prudent?

Yep!

cammy

Are you doing Preorders before or combined with a Power Buy on the 6768 or 7178?

If there's no PB how do we know the price structure? It would be foolish as hell to do a Preorder at MSRP. Otherwise what is the advantage of buying on-line?

One would be a fool to Pre-order at MSRP just for the bragging rights when a few weeks later the product is in the marketing channels at a few thousand less than MSRP as that has how all pricing has gone on with these TV's for years.

Now that Samsung has confirmed both June as being on Target (per Marketing Director) and that the 7078 is now a 71" 7178 series why all this talk of Fall? Is the Marketing Director misrepresenting or lying? That doesn't make sense to undermine his own credibility as he fully understand the audience that is viewing this feedback. You can bet he is fully aware at this point what inventory targets will be channeled and when the marketing people fully know all project time-lines and it's his job to create the inventory flow through the market channels as marketing includes far more than advertising it includes distribution channels, basic Marketing 101 in College.

I would expect mid to late June as they have release several LCD and Plasma panels on schedule recently and it appears the new Kirk has been held back to migrate the 1080P into the same as the 68, 78 series. Just my 2 cents and thank you to the folks in NY getting us tangible pieces to the puzzle.

The TVA pre-orders on other sets gave a discount of around 13%-15%, and that included the shipping fees.

Some of us were talking late summer / fall as we were looking at 50" sets.

Another reason is to let the prices settle a bit as many stores don't discount much on new models.

Originally posted by falsedawn
I think it's a poor argument to criticize another's taste, since taste is so personal. I find the glossy black bezel VERY distracting when trying to watch the screen. It also shows fingerprints, scratches, etc. Also, my TV is not ON all the time, so its appearance is important.

Fingerprints, scratches? Those have never happened to my tv cause there's no reason to touch it. Its a great invention called the remote control. Also you don't have to get bent out of shape about your taste vs mine or anyone elses. The look of a tv does come into play but I wouldn't make it the deciding factor. Specs first, reliability second, size third and finally looks.

Just went to CC tonight and they seemed to be pushing the xx85 models pretty hard. They looked really good and came with the nice stand. You can definitely tell that the new models will be in soon cause the Samsungs now are dirt cheap. Say a nice 4663 for a low low price. Very tempting but I want the latest and greatest

Originally posted by subwoofer
... Specs first, reliability second, size third and finally looks. ...
What? No WAF!?

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
JVC and Panasonic both have the same parent company if I'm not mistaken. Panasonic is still a pretty good company, the last time I checked. Wouldn't that "carry over" to JVC, or does it not matter?

Panasonic and JVC collaborate on development of new technology occasionally, but they are two difference companies.


JVC Company of America is a division of JVC Americas Corp., which is a wholly owned subsidiary of Victor Company of Japan, Limited


Panasonic is division of Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd.

I am very willing to buy Panasonic products. I have had very good experiences with them.

JVC, on the other hand, has produced lemon after lemon after lemon.


John

JVC I believe is also owned by Matsushita.

Per Yahoo:
Matsushita Electric Industrial, one of the world's top consumer electronics makers, may have an unfamiliar name, but its brands are recognizable: Panasonic , Quasar, Technics, and JVC to name a few. Its AVC Networks sector produces TVs, VCRs, CD and DVD players, PCs, cellular phones, and fax machines. Matsushita also sells components (batteries, electric motors, displays, semiconductors), home appliances (washing machines, vacuum cleaners), and factory automation equipment (industrial robots, welding equipment). The Matsushita group includes about 380 consolidated companies around the globe; its products are sold worldwide

From Victor Company of Japan (JVC) come such spoils as VCRs, TVs (high definition, plasma display panel), and home and car stereos. The consumer electronics maker's other products include DVD players, camcorders, media (CDs, DVDs, videotapes), and information and security systems. Founded in 1927, JVC has been affiliated with Matsushita Electric since that company bought a majority stake in 1954 (it now owns more than 50%). Lately JVC has been reorganizing and downsizing its operations, streamlining its product offerings, and focusing on unique (and less price-sensitive) electronics, such as high-definition TVs, DVD recorders, and high-definition camcorders. About 70% of JVC's sales come from consumer products.

PS. I've always liked JVC. Never trusted Panasonic.

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
Are you all getting the idea along with me that waiting until Fall or so, to make a move or a purchase, would be mightily prudent?



Sure would be foolish not to with all the 1080P's from various manufacturers hitting the street in the 2nd half of the year.

Originally posted by millerwill
Agree. For me, it's going to be between the Sammy 7178 and the Mits 73727. Can't wait to see them side by side at MagHiFi.



I would not discount checking out the JVC 1080P D-ILA's also. The PQ on these babies blew away the Samsung 1080P's at the CES and are more reliable than DLP with spinning color wheels. Can't comment on the Mits,
haven't seen it.

I've always said I thought the JVC looked a little better than the Samsung. It did not blow it away in PQ by any means. If the price difference is more than $500, I would buy the Samsung. The TI 1080p demo, color wheel and all, looked better than the JVC.

I thought the Qualia looked the best, but it was close on all three.

get back on topic peeps!

For me it will come down to both the 68 & 88 series models.

I'm looking at the either 6168 or the 6768--if the latter doesn't blow my budget. I'd like to put some of that money into another receiver and a set of Onix Rockets.

Ok here's a little game for you guys:

1. You have the following devices:

a) Computer (VGA/DVI [can use DVI -> HDMI cable if needed)
b) Receiver: Component Video (has PS2 routing through it)
c) DVD Player: Component/DVI/HDMI
d) SA 8000HD HDPVR Cable Box (I really want the PVR functionality as we don't have Tivo in Canada, so I don't think I'll be using Cable Card, I haven't heard mention of it up here yet).. anyways: DVI/Component

Now I do a lot of TV watching, a lot of DVD watching, hell I plan to use the TV for everything listed above.


Seeing as we have no DVI slot (*angry* VGA is worse then DVI, why must we still use it for the "PC" connection? *sigh*)...

Now your task!

What would you connect to what for the best combination of pictures?

Trying to solve some ponderings,

- D

I'm constrained by the fact that I'm living in a miniature house and will be sitting 7-9 feet from the screen. I'd go for a 50" 68W, if they were going to make one. Yeah, they're going to make a 50" 78W, but since we don't expect as deep discounts on the 78s as the 68s, a 56" 68W may actually end up being cheaper. What to do, what to do?

Drooling about the upcoming samsung sets seem to drive the prices higher and higher. I wonder how much Samsung thinks it can get out of us?

We should all wait for the older series to drop in price and buy them. Since your still going to enjoy the beautifull rainbows and the unreliability issues on the new sets anyway?

Don't forget that Samsung charges $2-$5K for beta testers, this part is hard to forget.
I like samsung but, I'm starting to think hard about the money I'm going to spend on a new TV.
So far Samsung has done little in working to get my vote.

I woke up sunday morning and proceeded to check some of my local dealers online ads. The big box stores had nothing listed. However, a local higher-end chain actually had them listed. The HLR5067 and HLR5087 were both listed as being in stock with shipping in 2 days. They also listed most of the HLPs as sold out.

I won't mention pricing, but fair to say prices were the usual % below MSRP for a new release.

I plan to head over on Monday to hopefully see one on display and make my final decision.

I would expect that we will start to see in home reviews and first impressions by the end of the week

Sears had the Samsung HL-R5067W listed in their ad this morning for the first time. If I am not mistaken, the picture is the HL-P5063W model. No floating screen shown. The price is significantly higher than the 63 model. I will try to check it out after lunch today. Like others, I would like to see the picture in person to make my own decision. WolfpackRon.

What is the usual % below MSRP for a new release?

I am seriously considering buying one or two of the Samsung 1080p sets this fall for a new home I am building so I was a little disturbed by the following comment from Tom Norton in his HE2005: Day 2 review:

"Since most TVs and projectors today operate at a native rate of 720p (slightly different in the case of some flat panels), a 1080i high-definition source must be converted to 720p for display. Silicon Optix claimed that most TV manufacturers do this by using just one 540-line field from each 1080i frame, scaling it up to 720p, because this requires much less processing horsepower than deinterlacing 1080i to 1080p and then scaling to 720p. I reported this technique first in my review of the InFocus ScreenPlay 777. (So far I have not seen it mentioned in any other publication.) This essentially limit's the resolution of such a source to 540p, which, technically, is not high definition..."

Any idea how Samsung will do the scaling? I would hate to think that my brand new 1080p sets are not going to look anywhere near as good on 720p broadcasts as they do on a native 720p set. That would be not good.

Originally posted by InterceptPoint
Any idea how Samsung will do the scaling? I would hate to think that my brand new 1080p sets are not going to look anywhere near as good on 720p broadcasts as they do on a native 720p set. That would be not good.

No idea how Samsung will do the deinterlacing/scaling in the new 1080p displays, but the info you quote should not be relevant. It applies to the case where the display is native 720p and the incoming signal is 1080i (like many of the networks today). In this case, the 1080i signal MUST be converted to 720p for display. With the new 1080p displays, only de-interlacing needs to be done. How the de-interlacing is done can/will impact PQ and effective resolution, so your question is certainly still valid even if the down conversion is not an issue.

Here is what Administrator asked Steve P (with Samsung) some time ago about this and Steve P's answer:

Originally posted by Administrator
Steve has been good to me lately! :D

========= I asked:

"Steve,

I understand the new 1080p sets will not have a 1080p input (which is understandable at this time). But when the set deinterlaces the 1080i signal, does it go directly from 1080i to 1080p, or does it go from 1080i to 540p then to 1080p?

I hope you can help me out with this. If not, maybe you can point me in the right direction?

Thank you."

========= Steve replied with:

to 1080p.

S

Originally posted by gazelle
Sure would be foolish not to with all the 1080P's from various manufacturers hitting the street in the 2nd half of the year.

It probably won't factor, but I was reading the lateset WSR magazine, and they were finishing up with their CES 2005 video coverage. They mentioned that Toshiba and Canon had their SED technology on display and they said, and I quote: SED easily blew away ANY LCD and plasma display that was there.

Note: They did not mention DLP in any fashion in the context of this paragraph.

They said that SED is going to be coming out near the end of this year, unless I'm really misreading this thing.

So that makes me also take pause. Since SED is a CRT based technology, I'd have to believe that MAYBE it won't be typical of a lot of first generation technologies, with a lot of bumps in the road. MAYBE SED is an option this year, after all?

What do you all think? They also mentioned something from some company called Quantum Vision that I'd never heard of. http://www.quantumvision.com/

Originally posted by schaffer970
Here is what Administrator asked Steve P (with Samsung) some time ago about this and Steve P's answer: to 1080p

Schaffer,

Has there been any indication of how the de-interlacing is done. Does it take into account the source of the 1080i material (i.e., film, video)? Any indication of the technique used, whether it is simple BOB, motion adaptive, reverse telecine or other deinterlacing process.

Thanks.

Does anyone know if the discrete codes for the HLR models will be the same as the discrete codes for the HLP models? If so, I would assume that the HLR models with 2 HDMI inputs would use the HDMI code for one and the DVI code for the other (in fact, on the back of the HLR 68 set, it says "HDMI (DVI)" on one of the HDMI inputs). I know there was a problem with the HDMI code for the earlier released HLP sets, but this was fixed with all the later released sets that had later firmware versions. Anyway, any info would be appreciated.

Well, Sears bombed out on having the advertised Samsung HL-R5067W. I guess that does not surprise me. My Sears store is not very well managed in my opinion anyway (electronics department). The sales person looked on the computer and it is scheduled to be in the warehouse next weekend. WolfpackRon.

Samsung has said they would be using the ATI XILLEON 226 chip in their sets for the video processing. I found the following on their website about another product that is using that chip:

XILLEON 226 integrates into a single chip all the processing, graphics, video, audio, and I/O (input and output) capabilities needed in a set-top box or digital TV. Included are a 300MHz MIPSŽ CPU (central processing unit), dual-HD (high definition) capable MPEG decoder, audio decoder, dual display engine, 2D and 3D graphics engine, conditional access, transport demultiplexers, PCI (Peripheral Component Interconnect), USB (universal serial bus), and hard disk drive interfaces. XILLEON 226 also features spatial-temporal adaptive deinterlacing to ensure the highest quality video output.

Of interest is what I highlighted in bold. :D

More thoughts on video processing. The Block Diagram from the FCC website for the HLR5688 (none of the other 1080p sets have been approved yet) also shows a Genesis Microchip GM1601 chip for some of the video processing. From the Genesis website Preliminary Product Brief gm1601 comes the following:

Industry Leading Video Deinterlacing

* Motion Adaptive deinterlacing up to 1080i input

* Superior film mode detection and 3:2 & 2:2 inverse pull down

* Motion adaptive noise reduction

* Low angle directional interpolation

Schaffer,

Can always depend on you for the facts. Thanks again.

Tom Norton

www.guidetohometheater.com

indicated (in his day 2 reporting) that the 6768 in the not-for-public showing in the TI demonstration was better than Samsung's rendering. He feels that the Samsung set was set overly bright resulting in problems (white clipping and blurring...) that, apparently, were non-existent in the TI demo.

He also states that these sets are a go for June.

If you go into a Best Buy you are able to set up delivery for a 50" Samsung HLR. They are currently in the main warehouse where the delivery's are shipped from. (At least in the DC Metro Area)

Originally posted by Ed Weinman
Tom Norton

www.guidetohometheater.com

indicated (in his day 2 reporting) that the 6768 in the not-for-public showing in the TI demonstration was better than Samsung's rendering. He feels that the Samsung set was set overly bright resulting in problems (white clipping and blurring...) that, apparently, were non-existent in the TI demo.

He also states that these sets are a go for June.

Kind of makes me chuckle that it seems to be that TI handled Samsung's own displays better than Samsung themselves did.

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
It probably won't factor, but I was reading the lateset WSR magazine, and they were finishing up with their CES 2005 video coverage. They mentioned that Toshiba and Canon had their SED technology on display and they said, and I quote:


They said that SED is going to be coming out near the end of this year, unless I'm really misreading this thing.

So that makes me also take pause. Since SED is a CRT based technology, I'd have to believe that MAYBE it won't be typical of a lot of first generation technologies, with a lot of bumps in the road. MAYBE SED is an option this year, after all?

What do you all think? They also mentioned something from some company called Quantum Vision that I'd never heard of. http://www.quantumvision.com/



Interesting. Of course Toshiba quality and workmanship is superior to Samsung's, too. Another point to consider.

Originally posted by gazelle
Interesting. Of course Toshiba quality and workmanship is superior to Samsung's, too. Another point to consider.

I didn't know it was both Toshiba AND Canon were behind SED. That's going to be something to watch out for, especially if SED is going to start coming out before this year is done. On paper, SED seems downright ideal, being a CRT based technology without the trappings of a bulky tube.

If SED makes it it will be because of Canon. My view is that it will start at slow and will be ripped apart at the forum but over the long haul it will make it? Why? I believe there will be a full convergence of photography and video==not only by photographers and video computer geeks but eventually even by Joe Six Pack.

I would expect it will be a couple of years before SED sets are available in large numbers.

Intriguing technology though.

Originally posted by gazelle
Interesting. Of course Toshiba quality and workmanship is superior to Samsung's, too. Another point to consider.

I took apart a broken toshiba LCD a few months ago...had alot of samsung parts in actually..

I can't wait to play XBOX360 Next-Gen games on my 1080p Samsung!!!

Originally posted by TMSKILZ
I can't wait to play XBOX360 Next-Gen games on my 1080p Samsung!!!

You're not kidding. I KNOW I'll have to have a display upgrade by the time that puppy comes out.

Originally posted by spdntrxi
I took apart a broken toshiba LCD a few months ago...had alot of samsung parts in actually..


Samsung DLP's have by far the worse record for reliability, whereas Toshiba DLP's have had much less major problems. Over 50% of the Samsung DLP's made are either dead in the water or requiring major repairs within 2 years. Not exactly a glowing recommendation for a big-ticket item. Someone said early beta? Maybe the 2005 models can be thus classified, they do have more expensive electronics and Samsung claims they are better made, but, certainly through 2004 late alpha is more apropos for these sets.

I think the reference to build quality has a lot to do with the overall construction quality. If I remember correctly, a Mitsubishi DLP weighs about 40% more than a Samsung of equivalent size. The extra weight probably has little to do with the image quality, although it could potentially affect long-term reliability if heavier duty power supplies, cooling fans, etc, are used. Most of the extra weight is from using heavier frames and cabinets.

Does anyone know if the section of the base that sticks out to (stabilize?) the unit is removable ?

Thanks !
Matthew

Originally posted by tebbens
Does anyone know if the section of the base that sticks out to (stabilize?) the unit is removable ?

Thanks !
Matthew

Yes it is and only on 61" and larger (if I recall). :)

Originally posted by tebbens
Does anyone know if the section of the base that sticks out to (stabilize?) the unit is removable ?

Thanks !
Matthew

Yes, it is removable. It is a base under the set ... more than just the little foot.

Originally posted by gazelle
Over 50% of the Samsung DLP's made are either dead in the water or requiring major repairs within 2 years.

I don't think this is accurate. Is this just your personal opinion? How many times have people posted here saying, "I just picked up my new Samsung DLP ...". It is rare to hear of a problem or DOA.

Originally posted by UCSB
I don't think this is accurate. Is this just your personal opinion? How many times have people posted here saying, "I just picked up my new Samsung DLP ...". It is rare to hear of a problem or DOA.


It appears to be fairly accurate. There was a thread somewhere on this forum that actually showed a much higher percentage of problem Samsung DLP's than 50%. Also, from anecdotal evidence i and others have heard from retailers i would say it seems fairly accurate. At the very least, Samsung DLP's have had a substantially higher level of problems than other major manufacturers such as Mitsubishi, Toshiba, Panasonic, etc. In truth, past performance may have no bearing on the 2005 models which have been promo'd by Samsung as having higher quality parts and better workmanship. Who knows? You can buy something from a manufacturer that has a very low rate of failure and it can crap out in a month or buy something from another manufacturer with an extremely high failure rate and have it outlive you.

Originally posted by gazelle
It appears to be fairly accurate. There was a thread somewhere on this forum that actually showed a much higher percentage of problem Samsung DLP's than 50%. Also, from anecdotal evidence i and others have heard from retailers i would say it seems fairly accurate. At the very least, Samsung DLP's have had a substantially higher level of problems than other major manufacturers such as Mitsubishi, Toshiba, Panasonic, etc. In truth, past performance may have no bearing on the 2005 models which have been promo'd by Samsung as having higher quality parts and better workmanship. Who knows? You can buy something from a manufacturer that has a very low rate of failure and it can crap out in a month or buy something from another manufacturer with an extremely high failure rate and have it outlive you.

When making a claim of such a high percentage, It would be better if you had some better evidence than anecdotal or at least make it more clear that this you are guessing. Forum postings are notoriously in favor of those experiencing problems and I'd hate to have someone take this as being accurate if it wasn't. Otherwise people might get the impression that all of these dlps are bad and everyone knows the JVCs are almost certainly going to burst into flames:). One would expect that if the failure rates were that high than the extended warranties would have to reflect this but they have always seemed to be in line with other manufacturers.

I have had my HLN 4367 for appx. 3 yrs now and have had zero problems.. :D One thing I know for sure is, that Samsung beats the others with, is their Customer Service. The others do not even come close. ;)

MegaByte,

Welcome!

Originally posted by MegaByte
I have had my HLN 4367 for appx. 3 yrs now and have had zero problems.. :D One thing I know for sure is, that Samsung beats the others with, is their Customer Service. The others do not even come close. ;)
... and your date is 100% accurate. :)

No "data" on this forum or any other forum can be used to describe the experience of the total number of owners for a particular set.

What is interesting, if not statistically significant, is when a given company seems to be hiding behind "that's normal" to avoid repairing or replacing a set. Or, reading reports of replacement parts taking months to arrive.

In the case of Samsung it's very possible they are selling more DLP sets than all their competitors put together. Maybe many more. I have no idea because they don't share their sales numbers or "repair/replace" data with me.

I haven't read any reports of Samsung refusing to repair or replace one of their DLP sets. I have read a lot of reports of Samsung replacing sets that could have been repaired. I have also read a few reports of them taking care of customers after the original warranty expired.

Why would Samsung stay in the DLP business if they were repairing or replacing 50% of the sets they sell?

It's a puzzlement! ;)

My guess is ~5% is an accurate figure. And it's probably headed down from here as the technology matures.

Gaming seems to be becoming a higher priority at Samsung. Perhaps their new partnership with Microsoft will yield some good results for gamers. Here is some text from TWICE about their new partnership.

====

Samsung, Microsoft Ink HDTV Marketing Deal On Next-Gen XBox

By Steve Smith -- TWICE, 4/28/2005 9:20:00 AM

New York — Microsoft has selected Samsung as the exclusive HDTV worldwide marketing partner for the next-generation Xbox high-definition (HD) gaming platform.

The announcement was made this morning during media day at the Home Entertainment Expo at the New York Hilton, which will open to the public April 29-May 1.

As part of this marketing deal, both companies will install over 25,000 Samsung HDTVs in Microsoft Xbox retail kiosks worldwide, with half that total budgeted for the United States. The new 23-inch Samsung LCD TV (LNR238W) will be paired at retail with the new Xbox console which offers a super-fast 12-millisecond pixel-switching speed and enable “intense action while overcoming any motion artifacts,” the companies said.

Both companies did say that there is no plan to bundle these products at retail, but that this is just the first of several joint marketing efforts between the two companies.

The global marketing and promotional alliance between Microsoft and Samsung Electronics will include cinema, POS, television, print, online and various other media efforts, with further details becoming available in coming months.

Microsoft’s first high-definition game will incorporate Samsung-branded products as well as instances of Samsung's logo as part of the overall HD gaming experience. This will mark the first time Microsoft incorporates a consumer electronics technology partner with the Xbox console and games, the companies noted.

In commenting on the deal, Peter Weedfald, senior VP, consumer electronics and North America corporate marketing for Samsung Electronics America, said, “Gaming has become a primary force for innovation in the entertainment and technology industries. Samsung has selected Microsoft Xbox as the best next-generation game console and a key driver in the global HDTV revolution.”

Details on the next-generation Xbox were scant from Edward Bland, global marketing general manager of Microsoft’s home and entertainment division for Xbox, explaining that its major introduction will be held at the E3 show in Los Angeles the week of May 16. But he did note that “no decision has been made as yet for a blue-laser format” for Xbox. Bland noted that “either Blu-ray or HD DVD would be acceptable” and that the next-generation Xbox would be “extendable” in that area. Weedfald added that Samsung has also not selected a blue-laser format as of yet.

When asked how this partnership compares to Sony’s PS2 efforts, Weedfald said, “Samsung is a company that historically believes in open platforms and technology partnerships. We don’t open retail stores or sell direct to compete against our retail partners. We believe that open platforms are the best way to serve consumers.”

Microsoft was drawn to Samsung in part by the fact that 85 percent of its video display line consists of digital or HD-ready units, according to Weedfald.

Negotiations between Samsung and Microsoft on this alliance took around a year, Weedfald said. Both companies enjoy a long-standing relationship as strategic and tactical business partners. Microsoft Xbox currently incorporates Samsung technology, and Samsung will continue to be a tech driver for the next-generation Xbox video game console, the companies said.

As a part of their continued relationship, Microsoft and Samsung Electronics are uniting in a nationwide (USA) cause-marketing program entitled “Samsung's Hope For Education.” Now in its second year, the program will deliver more than $2 million in much-needed technology and software products, including Encarta Reference Library 2005, to elementary, middle and high schools across America through an online essay contest. For more information on the contest, visit www.hopeforeducation.com.

HLR6768 $6199....$1400 more than the 61"
HLR6168 $4799....$300 more than the 56"
HLR5668 $4499

$1400 more for 67"...Why such a huge increase when the 61" is only $300 more then the 56"....I was thinking maybe the 67" but $1400 difference...OUCH!

Originally posted by jwv651
HLR6768 $6199....$1400 more than the 61"
HLR6168 $4799....$300 more than the 56"
HLR5668 $4499

$1400 more for 67"...Why such a huge increase when the 61" is only $300 more then the 56"....I was thinking many the 67" but $1400 difference...OUCH!

These prices (from the press release) are not correct. I confirmed that with Samsung directly. Please see my post a few pages back.

Take this with a grain of salt....
I was in a San Jose Best Buy and was talking to one of the salesmen there about the HLR series. He was saying that they are expecting the HLR 5668 at the end of May to coincide with the mini-Magnolia's they are putting into their stores (look for the construction area inside Best Buy). Price on the 5668 was just under 4100 according to his system (sorry tried to remember as much data from the screen(s) as possible....but instead of concentrating on a couple specs, I was trying to get them all and subsequently remebered very few)

Interesting comparison between the Samsung 1080p and the Sony 1080p.

http://www.guidetohometheater.com/news/042905hesw/

Originally posted by PaulGo
Interesting comparison between the Samsung 1080p and the Sony 1080p.

http://www.guidetohometheater.com/news/042905hesw/


We've all been going through that link in a few other threads. This was a Texas Instruments' hosted demonstration, so you must take that into account when reading about any of the "results.";)

A funny observation: Every report we've gotten out of the HES thus far indicates that, ironically, TI handled Samsung's displays better and had them calibrated more properly than Samsung themselves did!

So I decided to go back through the thread to find out exactly why the sets won't accept 1080p, and there still is not an answer with which I am satisfied.

What we do know is that 1080p is part of the HDMI specification, so technically, that is not stopping this from happening. So, what I can't seem to understand is why the manufacturers have "chosen" to not support 1080p inputs. Clearly there must be some reason that these sets were designed to not accept 1080p. One person mentioned that it may be something to do with HDCP support for 1080p. Could it be this, or higher costs perhaps?

Does anyone have a solid answer to this question?

I personally think it is a load of crap for 1080p to not be included in the sets. They are $4000 televisions for christ's sake. If they are going to be able to display 1080p and be billed as 1080p sets, they should accept 1080p, not just be able to scale 720p to 1080p or deinterlace 1080i to 1080p.

I would like the piece of mind knowing that my set will accept at least one format that is still not yet mainstream.

Originally posted by UCSB
I don't think this is accurate. Is this just your personal opinion? How many times have people posted here saying, "I just picked up my new Samsung DLP ...". It is rare to hear of a problem or DOA.

Just my two cents...........

I actually had the 6163 at one point but returned it because of the screen smudge problem (this was before Samsung admitted there was a problem). My second 6163 had the same issue so it went back. I then got a Mitsubishi 62725 and after about a month, smudges started to appear on the screen, which to me meant the mirrors probably got dirty. The place I got it from though decided to exchange it for a brand new one instead of repair it. I thought great, until I got the new one a it had a bunch of stuck mirrors which produced a 'pixel out' look to the screen and the 'bright spot' problem. They came out to replace the light engine, but it didn't solve the problem completely and the fan noise was pretty loud, so I ended up returning it also. Now I waiting for the new sets and keeping my fingers crossed. I guess what I'm trying to get across is that even thought the Mitsubishi was 'better made' and heavier, it still had problems. I don't think any brand is safe from issues. I firmly believe I would still have the 6163 is the screen didn't have the problem. One observation I did notice before any repairs were made is that the fan noise of the Mitsubishi was much louder than the Samsung. It also had a fan that always ran (I think this was to keep the cable card slot cool, or something like that). I would hope this is addressed in the new models.

Originally posted by CGULL999
It (Mitsubishi) also had a fan that always ran (I think this was to keep the cable card slot cool, or something like that). I would hope this is addressed in the new models.
The major source of heat in a RPTV is the lamp. If you mean that the fan always ran when the set was on then I think they all do that. If it ran 24/7 including when the set was off then I agree. They should change that. ;)

The three updates to POST #1 that I posted a few pages ago seem to be the only HES changes that we needed to make to POST #1. Does anyone think that I should make any further changes?

Please NOTE, the Samsung press releases from HES contained new product pricing information. I updated POST #1 to reflect the pricing in the press releases. But, there appears to be some confusion as to whether the pricing was correct. I am working to resolve this situation. I will let everyone know once I get final pricing. I will leave the press release pricing in POST #1 until I get new information.

Originally posted by CGULL999
Just my two cents...........

I actually had the 6163 at one point but returned it because of the screen smudge problem ...

Samsung wil provide a new smudge free screen and installation for TVs with this problem. The smudges on the screen were a manufacturing defect. Unfortunately, this policy may have been put in place after CGULL999 returned his set.

The comment re: the fan always on possibly due to keeping the cable card cool reminds me that my Dish 6000 receiver always has the fan on, even when I'm not watching anything...(to cool the mechanics?...)

Originally posted by Ed Weinman
The comment re: the fan always on possibly due to keeping the cable card cool reminds me that my Dish 6000 receiver always has the fan on, even when I'm not watching anything...(to cool the mechanics?...) Yes - the fan needs to run continuously to cool the fan motor heat that comes from running the fan motor continuously.

Maybe they can place the fan so the heat rises through it making the motor turn faster, generating power. Just think a self powered set! :D :D :D

Originally posted by UCSB
Samsung wil provide a new smudge free screen and installation for TVs with this problem. The smudges on the screen were a manufacturing defect. Unfortunately, this policy may have been put in place after CGULL999 returned his set.

Unfortunately, Samsung didn't take action on the screens until after I had returned the set.

As far as the fan running continuously on the Mitsubishi, this wasn’t the main bulb fan that ran while the TV was on, it was another lower power fan that was always running, even when the TV was not in use. It’s talked about in the Mitsubishi threads. A lot of people were panicking that this fan was on all the time and they thought there was a problem. Although is wasn’t a problem with the set, it was a little annoying.

Originally posted by Clorox

He also SPECIFICALLY told me to tell everyone that gamers will be very happy with the systems, and that there would NOT be any lag problems.


Is this statement referring to the 1080p sets only? or all the new Samsung sets (including the HLR 720p sets)

Does Samsung typically release sets to industry press for testing & review before they arrive at the retailers?

(typo edit)

FYI Ordered HLR4667 from Best Buy today. Will ship from warehouse and be delivered to my house on Wednesday. Special introductory price = $2499, on sale this week with all other HDTV's for $2383, also received free shipping to home and 18 months 0% interest.

Pretty good price for a new model and in stock at warehouse--just had to go to BB personally to order.

Originally posted by tanzbodeli
Is this statement referring to the 1080p sets only? or all the new Samsung sets (including the HLR 720p sets)

Steve was referring to the new samsung sets in general.

So does anyone have any actual reason for no 1080p inputs, or will we all just be wondering forever?

Originally posted by Clorox
So does anyone have any actual reason for no 1080p inputs, or will we all just be wondering forever?

We won't be wondering forever ... just until they are released and we get a chance to see what they will really do. It is my current understanding that the VGA/PC input will do 1080p. HDMI will do 1080i. I still have hopes that the shipping units will do 1080p over HDMI, but sadly I don't have anything more than a hope on my part.

Here's a question from all the potential cheapskate 1080p buyers of the world: what will be the MSRP of the 5668 and what will be the MSRP of the 5078? What will be the cheapest? Cheapskates want to know whether to buy a Samsung set or a LG set to get the cheapest 1080p possible. I've already asked this question in another thread but it hasn't gotten answered and I figured all the Samsung experts here would know the answer. If you give me an anser I promise not to tell anyone--PLEASE What is cheapest?

Looks like changes are underway on the Samsung website. The HLR4266 is back up along with the spec sheet that we have seen previously (but has been down for a couple of weeks) for the HLR4266 & HLRxx67's.

Clorox, I have been tracking the 1080p over HDMI issue pretty closely. We may know more when the FCC approval is given (which I expect any day now). It is possible that from the block diagram that is put up when approval is given, we can glean enough information to make a pretty good guess. If things are still unclear when that happens we will have to wait until a set is in somebody's hands.

Originally posted by Artwood
Here's a question from all the potential cheapskate 1080p buyers of the world: what will be the MSRP of the 5668 and what will be the MSRP of the 5078? What will be the cheapest? Cheapskates want to know whether to buy a Samsung set or a LG set to get the cheapest 1080p possible. I've already asked this question in another thread but it hasn't gotten answered and I figured all the Samsung experts here would know the answer. If you give me an anser I promise not to tell anyone--PLEASE What is cheapest?


How many threads are you going to troll with this BS? You MADE a dedicated thread just to ask this. We got it.

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
How many threads are you going to troll with this BS? You MADE a dedicated thread just to ask this. We got it. And we're just not interested in playing your little game.

Originally posted by Artwood
Here's a question from all the potential cheapskate 1080p buyers of the world: what will be the MSRP of the 5668 and what will be the MSRP of the 5078? What will be the cheapest? Cheapskates want to know whether to buy a Samsung set or a LG set to get the cheapest 1080p possible. I've already asked this question in another thread but it hasn't gotten answered and I figured all the Samsung experts here would know the answer. If you give me an anser I promise not to tell anyone--PLEASE What is cheapest?


The one after I buy mine.:cool:

Originally posted by schaffer970
Looks like changes are underway on the Samsung website. The HLR4266 is back up along with the spec sheet that we have seen previously (but has been down for a couple of weeks) for the HLR4266 & HLRxx67's. But the site is still hosed. Although it allows you to download the HLR4667W owners manual, what you actually get is the HLP version.

What's so hard about answering a simple question? I could care less what the answer is--I'm not rooting for one model or the other. I'm not pro or anti any company. This really gets to what AVS is all about. If there ever are any simple facts tha might cost any company a few dollars the plants brand people who ask about such facts the title troll. If you don't know the answer to a simple question and you're ignorant then just say so! If I don't know an answer I say so! If it is trollish to wonder about an MSRP then pronounce me the King of all trolls--I welcome the title! Just think lurkers--as smart as these people are about Video they refuse to say anything about prices--sounds like the PR people to me.

The Mits will do 1080P according to their press day info if thats super important.

I'll bet the Sammy's will too. The best Steve P. Q&A IMO was KyungKim's 4X badgering that got 4 yes's. (just kidding KK :) )

Ken

Originally posted by Artwood
What's so hard about answering a simple question? I could care less what the answer is--I'm not rooting for one model or the other. I'm not pro or anti any company. This really gets to what AVS is all about. If there ever are any simple facts tha might cost any company a few dollars the plants brand people who ask about such facts the title troll. If you don't know the answer to a simple question and you're ignorant then just say so! If I don't know an answer I say so! If it is trollish to wonder about an MSRP then pronounce me the King of all trolls--I welcome the title! Just think lurkers--as smart as these people are about Video they refuse to say anything about prices--sounds like the PR people to me.

Quite simply there are no final MSRP's until the products are finally announced for sale. Back in January when LG announced their 1080p sets there was an approximate price in the press release. If you go to the LG site now and look at those press releases there are no prices in them now. As every manufacturer tries to position their products prices and features change up to the last minute. So as you have been already told on the LG thread the lg 56 1080p is guesstimated at 5299. You can look up the best guesses for the Samsung's in post #1 (but in case that is too much work, 5078 3999, 5678 4299, & 5668 4499). I wouldn't count on any of those to be the final prices.

Thanks very much for the information schaffer970! It would appear that the 5078 will indeed be the lowest priced one if all the other guestimated prices remain relative. I have seen much lower prices at some stores for pre orders--I don't know how reliable those are--maybe some stores are just advertising really low prices to drum up buisness.

I also wonder how much difference employing all of TI's improvements will have on Picture Quality and how much each company's electronics will have on Picture Quality. The Mits models will cost more, but if they can combine PVRs that can download to D-VHS via Firewire that's a great plus.

Please forgive my exasperation--alot of times companies don't give out information because they don't know themselves. One thing's for sure--the price of all displays will drop based on these new sets. Getting a 1080 display for a price in the 3Ks is great! Maybe you'll have to pay a litle more for quality--but with Samsung's sets having basically the same guts--68, 78 or 88 series maybe great quality won't be too expensive!

Originally posted by Artwood
... The Mits models will cost more, ...

I agree that it is frustrating not to be able to get reliable info re prices, even MSRP's, which of course will not be what you can actually get them for.

But I'm not sure your comment about Mits' costing more will be true: the reported MSRP for the Mits 73", the 73727 (the one w/o the internal DVR) is $5800, while that of the Sammy 71" (the 7178) is estimated at present to be $6500. Of course one has in the past been able to get Sammy's more below MSRP than Mits', so that might actually bring their 'street prices' more into line.

Originally posted by schaffer970
(but in case that is too much work, 5078 3999, 5678 4299, & 5668 4499).

That is NOT the right price for the 5668. I heard from Samsung directly and as of now the expected MSRP of the 5668 is 4299.

Originally posted by Artwood
What's so hard about answering a simple question? I could care less what the answer is. Exactly. Based on all your other posts, you have no interest in the answer. You just seem to get your jollies by stirring things up and watching the result. Personally, I'm not interested in being your amusement.

Originally posted by RMSko
That is NOT the right price for the 5668. I heard from Samsung directly and as of now the expected MSRP of the 5668 is 4299.

As I said in my post, those are the guesstimated prices that are in post #1. Samsung has been shifting around prices as the sets get closer to delivery. They do not work in a vacuum. They have LG, RCA, Mits, Panasonic and all the rest to contend with as far as pricing goes. I expect the final MSRP to be set just as the sets come out.

Originally posted by KenLand
The Mits will do 1080P according to their press day info if thats super important.

I'll bet the Sammy's will too. The best Steve P. Q&A IMO was KyungKim's 4X badgering that got 4 yes's. (just kidding KK :) )

Ken

Ken,

where did you read this? I could not find anywhere an indication that HDMI accepts 1080p on the Mitsu sets. That being said, I also haven't seen anywhere saying that they don't accept 1080p (same goes for the Samsung models). I think the only reason so far to believe that HDMI does not accept 1080p is the fact that the Qualia does not accept 1080p over HDMI (at least not 1080/60p). Please correct me as I could very well be wrong.

Originally posted by Clorox
Ken,

where did you read this? I could not find anywhere an indication that HDMI accepts 1080p on the Mitsu sets. That being said, I also haven't seen anywhere saying that they don't accept 1080p (same goes for the Samsung models). I think the only reason so far to believe that HDMI does not accept 1080p is the fact that the Qualia does not accept 1080p over HDMI (at least not 1080/60p). Please correct me as I could very well be wrong.

http://hometheatermag.com/news/041305mitsubishi/

That's the last bit of news I saw on Mitsubishi's 2005 plans.

Originally posted by Artwood
I could care less what the answer is

I think you mean "couldn't care less."

Originally posted by RMSko
That is NOT the right price for the 5668. I heard from Samsung directly and as of now the expected MSRP of the 5668 is 4299.

I have contacted Samsung directly and asked them to clarify the pricing. I expect to hear from them soon. I'll update the pricing in POST #1 at that time.

Originally posted by Artwood and corrected by me:
I couldn't care less what the answer is.

Yeah, we know pesky things like facts and truth aren't going to slow you down. :rolleyes:

THEN WHY DID YOU ASK THE QUESTION TWICE?!

You even made a dedicated troll thread for your question that you say you didn't even care about the answer to. Here it is: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=535716 :rolleyes: LOL, what a joke. Sham.

So I was right, there was no useful point to it whatsoever except to troll and instigate trouble.

This sort of crap has got to stop. You can make useful contributions around here when you feel like it. I've seen that. But then you ruin that with BS like this. You're running out of steam pretty quickly.

You take one step forward and at least two steps' backwards, in terms of credibility, when you pull stunts like this and you do nothing but waste all of our time, including yours.

NOW STOP!

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
You can make useful contributions around here when you feel like it. I've seen that. But then you ruin that with BS like this.
It reminds me of similar posting patterns last year. I wonder what happened to that guy. ;)

I think it's more effective not to ...

Originally posted by UCSB
I have contacted Samsung directly and asked them to clarify the pricing. I expect to hear from them soon. I'll update the pricing in POST #1 at that time.

THANKS MUCH!

Originally posted by htwaits
It reminds me of similar posting patterns last year. I wonder what happened to that guy. ;)

I think it's more effective not to ...

Yeah, we've got two guys that float around here, whose names both begin with the letter "A" that seems to just like to do nothing but troll and try and start trouble. The RP forum isn't the only place they do it.

Maybe if we all start making liberal use of the "report post to moderator" button and the ignore list, we can get some of the riff-raff cleaned out of here.

I'm tired of having to swim around spin, lies, and just plain trash as I try to gain useful information towards a display upgrade. This is an expensive, important decision that's going to come down for me probably come Fall and I just don't have a lot of patience for BS.

I know I'm hardly the only one that's noticed this or feels this way. It needs to stop.

I look forward to UCSB's update on the pricing of these new Samsung units! :)

What would happen if no one responded to inappropriate statements...at all!...and simply went on with the discussion at hand...no comments...just continue the subject at hand. Things have a habit of disappearing when absolutely no one responds...

Originally posted by Ed Weinman
What would happen if no one responded to inappropriate statements...at all!...and simply went on with the discussion at hand...no comments...just continue the subject at hand. Things have a habit of disappearing when absolutely no one responds...

Theoretically, it's a perfect solution. Practically?... ;)

...or not!...

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
Yeah, we've got two guys that float around here, whose names both begin with the letter "A"
That too.

I was thinking of a different user name with very similar posting patterns that went away a while before this one appeared.

One response might be an extremely shortened quote followed by ...

"NWAR :rolleyes:"

We could coin a new acronym: Not Worth A Reply (NWAR). :)

I looked and didn't see an "HLR Owners" thread anywhere, so should those lucky few post their experiences here? It might be nice to have a separate thread since this thread has largely been dedicated to speculation and theory and lately to *cough* other things :)

Originally posted by tanzbodeli I looked and didn't see an "HLR Owners" thread anywhere, so should those lucky few post their experiences here? My HLR4667W is supposed to ship in the next day or so and should arrive next early week. If someone doesn't beat me to it, I'll be glad to start a thread with photos and comments.

I got this straight from Steve Posian @ the HES here in NYC last Friday.

13) Q: Sizes/MSRP's for the 68 series?

A: (1) 56'' = $4000
(2) 61" = $4500
(3) 67" = $6000 All slated for June!

Originally posted by TMSKILZ
I got this straight from Steve Posian @ the HES here in NYC last Friday.

13) Q: Sizes/MSRP's for the 68 series?

A: (1) 56'' = $4000
(2) 61" = $4500
(3) 67" = $6000 All slated for June!


Very good MSRP's. I can't believe they're going to really make June on these. Considering the 1080p input suspense...I almost would be hoping for a delay just to see that addressed, if need be.

Originally posted by TMSKILZ
I got this straight from Steve Posian @ the HES here in NYC last Friday.

13) Q: Sizes/MSRP's for the 68 series?

A: (1) 56'' = $4000
(2) 61" = $4500
(3) 67" = $6000 All slated for June!

Did you also try him re the xx78 series sets?

Originally posted by TMSKILZ
I got this straight from Steve Posian @ the HES here in NYC last Friday.

13) Q: Sizes/MSRP's for the 68 series?

A: (1) 56'' = $4000
(2) 61" = $4500
(3) 67" = $6000 All slated for June!

I saw your post with these numbers. Thanks for the HES coverage!!! But, the problem I am having is these numbers do not match those in the CES or HES press releases. Also, Samsung is using MSRP and a second type of number called 'Advertised Price' (which is less). These numbers above seem to be some version of a rounded price or advertised price. I'm trying to get MSRP. Once I have MSRP, then everyone can try to guess the degree of discounting that will occur. But, if I use street price or expected advertised price it is going to get confusing. I think we should just relax on pricing until I hear from Samsung. We know the pricing that we have in POST #1 is probably within $200 of the correct MSRP's or < 5%.

UCSB: Could you also please ask for the DIMENSIONS of the 7178 etc sets? We have guessimates, but if these things are really slated for June/July, surely the dimensions must be settled.

Originally posted by UCSB
I saw your post with these numbers. Thanks for the HES coverage!!! But, the problem I am having is these numbers do not match those in the CES or HES press releases. Also, Samsung is using MSRP and a second type of number called 'Advertised Price' (which is less). These numbers above seem to be some version of a rounded price or advertised price. I'm trying to get MSRP. Once I have MSRP, then everyone can try to guess the degree of discounting that will occur. But, if I use street price or expected advertised price it is going to get confusing. I think we should just relax on pricing until I hear from Samsung. We know the pricing that we have in POST #1 is probably within $200 of the correct MSRP's or < 5%.

Exactly - these are what Samsung refers to as the "street prices" which are $200 less than the MSRP.

Why such a huge jump in price from a 61" to a 67" a $1500 difference.

oh ok, just going by what steve told me when i asked him the MSRP, I didn't ask street price, but either way, the final price will fall between what's been posted I'm sure.

I got a chance to sit down with Steve P on sunday when it was relatively quiet and asked him, again regarding 1080p from the media pc using dvi-hdmi.
FIrst he said yes, then he said no, he thinks it was 1080i he tried using the resolution slider under windows.

So the latest seems to be no. Sorry for any confusion this may have caused, but i did in all fairness try to get a clear answer each time i spoke to him.

Until we get sets in our grubby little hands, not sure what the final answer will be regarding the maximum usable res on the input.

Originally posted by jwv651
Why such a huge jump in price from a 61" to a 67" a $1500 difference.

I think everyone agrees that this jump in price doesn't make much sense, particularly considering the fact that the difference from 56" to 61" is only $500.

This will definitely be a "wait and see" sort of thing, and I would venture to bet that most people who are considering the 67" are probably going to think long and hard about whether or not the extra 6" are worth $1500. I also have a feeling that most will shy away from the 67" given that fact and just go with the 61".

I am lucky enough that I don't have to think about it since I am getting a 50" or 56"

Sorry this is late, alot of ppl already posted some excellent comments about the show so i didnt see a pressing need to add my 2 cents right away.

RBE - I was the only person who noticed less rbe at ces and i think i was wrong. The main issue is source material. I think we all know what types of materials can cause the most rbe, dark scenes with bright highlights. Well on brightly lit hd scenes, which was the only material shown at the ces on the 1080p sets, its hard to find, even for me who see them pretty well. The same was the case here, the 67incher showing bright hd, was nearly free of all rbe.
At this show however, the 2 56in sets were showing the dts demo dvd with lots of dark scenes which generated more than enuff rbe. So on these sets i did see quiet a bit, but never to the point where it was really bothersome.
But i do have to back down and say that rbe on 1080p is no worse or better than current generation hd3 sets.

I didnt have a chance to duct tape my wife in front of one, but i think i she prob would have found the rbe on some of the really dark material distracting. As a side note, i spent quiet a bit of time doing the head jiggle, darting eyes thing, and no headache afterwards.

PQ obeservations were tuff, since the source material was less than ideal, and the settings on the tvs were prob the worst you could have picked. Please see my earlier post on the abysmal setup at the samsung booth.

So to poop on this even more, i saw quiet a bit of SSE on the demo 67 on large patches of white or blue. I can only imagine this was due to a "dirty" screen that had been around the block some, since i saw what also appeared to be dead pixels. When i got right up to the screen, they were 2 big to be pixels and were too irregularly shaped. I think they were dust spots. and there were quiet a few. To reiterate, these were protoypes and NOT production sets.

So that about covers the negative. Even though this all sounds bad, i still have a very positive opinion of these guys. I'll start a new post on the good stuff....

Originally posted by kyungkim
Sorry this is late, alot of ppl already posted some excellent comments about the show so i didnt see a pressing need to add my 2 cents right away.

RBE - I was the only person who noticed less rbe at ces and i think i was wrong. The main issue is source material. I think we all know what types of materials can cause the most rbe, dark scenes with bright highlights. Well on brightly lit hd scenes, which was the only material shown at the ces on the 1080p sets, its hard to find, even for me who see them pretty well. The same was the case here, the 67incher showing bright hd, was nearly free of all rbe.
At this show however, the 2 56in sets were showing the dts demo dvd with lots of dark scenes which generated more than enuff rbe. So on these sets i did see quiet a bit, but never to the point where it was really bothersome.
But i do have to back down and say that rbe on 1080p is no worse or better than current generation hd3 sets.

I didnt have a chance to duct tape my wife in front of one, but i think i she prob would have found the rbe on some of the really dark material distracting. As a side note, i spent quiet a bit of time doing the head jiggle, darting eyes thing, and no headache afterwards.

PQ obeservations were tuff, since the source material was less than ideal, and the settings on the tvs were prob the worst you could have picked. Please see my earlier post on the abysmal setup at the samsung booth.

So to poop on this even more, i saw quiet a bit of SSE on the demo 67 on large patches of white or blue. I can only imagine this was due to a "dirty" screen that had been around the block some, since i saw what also appeared to be dead pixels. When i got right up to the screen, they were 2 big to be pixels and were too irregularly shaped. I think they were dust spots. and there were quiet a few. To reiterate, these were protoypes and NOT production sets.

So that about covers the negative. Even though this all sounds bad, i still have a very positive opinion of these guys. I'll start a new post on the good stuff....

I still think it's kind of ironic that, by all accounts so far out of HES, TI was actually handling Samsung's TV's better than Samsung themselves!

Regarding the Mitsubishi and 1080p, the way I read the HT mag article, only the top of the line units with DVR come with a PC input. I suspect the PC input is analog RGB, and is the only one which can accept 1080p. I haven't read the whole Mitsu thread to see if my suspicion has been confirmed, however.

From the HT mag article:
"The WD-62927 and WD-73927 also come with a dedicated PC input."

Those sets are listed in the Mitsu 1080p thread as $6,299 and $7,999 MSRP respectively - ouch!

Here's the thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=528548&perpage=20&highlight=1080%20mitsubishi&pagenumber=2

Originally posted by gpshumway
Regarding the Mitsubishi and 1080p, the way I read the HT mag article, only the top of the line units with DVR come with a PC input. I suspect the PC input is analog RGB, and is the only one which can accept 1080p. I haven't read the whole Mitsu thread to see if my suspicion has been confirmed, however.

From the HT mag article:
"The WD-62927 and WD-73927 also come with a dedicated PC input."

Those sets are listed in the Mitsu 1080p thread as $6,299 and $7,999 MSRP respectively - ouch!

Here's the thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=528548&perpage=20&highlight=1080%20mitsubishi&pagenumber=2

I'm responding to your post here in the Mits. thread so as not to derail this thread. :)

To all the holier than thou posters here who think my trolling posts cause trouble I leave you all with this thought: there once was a DLP enthusiast poster here who even though his knowledge level was immense would always condescend to give simple answers to simple questions such as MSRPs--if he didn't know the answer he would tell you so and would try to find out the answer--he answered alot of my ignorant simple fact trolling questions when many here would not and it never bothered him. I don't think he wanted such riff raff off the forum. I'll leave it at that!

There are no pixels, even as you get nose jammingly close. This is a huge advantage to ppl contemplating the 56in set, as the high fill factor will allow a better picture at closer viewing distances. I think ppl at 8-9 feet who are seeing a 50 in as a mximum can easily jump to the 56in set in a 1080p line.

Blacks and contrast ratios. If anyone complains about the blacks on the 1080p set, please shoot them. Ive owned a crt rptv for more than 4yrs as my first hd display. These blacks are crt black. (at least in a rptv implementation).

The blacks alone are a big enuff jump where going to the 1080p light engine will be worthwhile for many. The 720p model next to the 1080p, always looked a little bit washed out, regardless of the settings on either set. DLP sets never lacked for punch before and the newer sets improve this even more.

The complete lack of any shadow detail on the dts demo sets i atribute to horible setup and choice of dvd equipment. Ive seen this black void in the picture before on my sister's hlm set. I've seen how a upconverting player and some tweaking can bring out the details where there was nothing but hollow blackness before. The fact that the new sets can reach lower blacks gives me hope that there should be even more details coaxed out of the blackness.

Overall i think ppl congreated too close to the huge 67in set.(self included). When you got further back form this set, over the 5-6ft distance that most ppl huddled around the set, you recieved a spectacular picture. This was especially true since they insisted on blasting it at dynamic mode all the time. At 10+ft what you saw was a huge punchy picture that was very pleasing to look at.

After the show, another avs member and i went to the sony store to ogle at the sxrd set, and i have to tell you, the 70in behemoth looked great, better than the sammie honestly. But when we got very close to the set, we saw ever so slight color fringing on white details, due to either CA or panel misconvergence, i dont know. Either way its an artifact not seen on the dlps. Granted at normal viewing distance, this is impossible to see and frankly the sxrd threw a more natural smoother pic.
At 13k i think it should look better, but I dont think it warrants the 2x the price difference.

So seen in context, 1080p dlp looks like the best tech to go with when looking at anything 56in and above. Its not perfect, but nothing else coming soon has its combination of pq, price and features.

Originally posted by Clorox
I think everyone agrees that this jump in price doesn't make much sense, particularly considering the fact that the difference from 56" to 61" is only $500.

This will definitely be a "wait and see" sort of thing, and I would venture to bet that most people who are considering the 67" are probably going to think long and hard about whether or not the extra 6" are worth $1500. I also have a feeling that most will shy away from the 67" given that fact and just go with the 61".

I am lucky enough that I don't have to think about it since I am getting a 50" or 56"

Got some interesting answers from Steve P on this one. It seems that the screen mfg are currently optimized for the 50in tvs. That is when cutting for those sizes, theres very little waste. When cutting 65+ in size screens, there is quiet a bit of waste in the sheets they cut, hence less screens per sheet. This plus the sky high gas prices, meaning less tvs per container for larger sizes versus the huge amount of 42,50in sets they can cram in on a pallet, is the reason for the huge jump between the sizes at this price point.

This made some sense to me.

One common confusion with prices is the relationship between MSRP and MAP. MAP is the "minimum advertised price" that official dealers agree to honor, at least for a while, in their advertising. it is typical a bit below MSRP. It may be that the 5668 has a MSRP of $4299 and a MAP of $3999 out of the gate.

How exactly does one set the grey scale on a TV with a dynamic iris?

I still LOL when thinking back to how badly Steve was struggling with the PC resolution on the 68 series.

Hehehe! I thought he was going to go off, but he didn't, he kept trying @ it.

Originally posted by Shape
How exactly does one set the grey scale on a TV with a dynamic iris?

Like this i guess (http://ultimateavmag.com/videoprojectors/205sony/index6.html)

Its not very accurate, but with spinning color wheels and wobulated chips, i guess dlp tvs are no grey scale champs either.

I've searched for where I read Mits took 1080P on its HDMI input, but all I can find is that it will take 1080P from HD receivers and PC's. So the input is ambiguous.

With all the "HDMI can't yet accept 1080P" I did go back to my copy of the 1.1 spec. and verified it is at least an optional format. (all the way to 1080p60)

Ken

"All Mitsubishi 1080p models will also receive an MPEG 1080p 24fps signal via broadcast or IEEE-1394 input, Zanfino said."

From "Mitsubishi Line Adds LCD RPTV"

By Greg Tarr -- TWICE, 4/12/2005 6:07:00 AM

On my new HLR4677 DLP set, I notice the following:

1. The screen (when the TV is off) shows a very thin long (from left to right)
horizontal line in the middle(at abount 65% height of the screen). Is it the seperation of the top part of the screen from the bottom part. Will it cause
an issue with my TV later? Is it common for screens to have this abnormality?

2. Also I feel the night time scenes/low ligh scenes are not showing
enough detail. I will be getting the DVE/Avia DVD and calibrating
soon but with whatever controls we have and using a few dvds I set:
contrast=100, Brightness =58 Sharpess=20, color = 50 under HDMI
with Samsung DVD850, I still see the faces little darker. If I increase
the brightness to 70-80 the faces look little clear but the background
scenes look more brighter now. Alsomy set is 5 feet above the ground
in the wall instead of the normal 3 feet, so I need to view it at
around 30 degrees vertical upward. Since I need to view with face at 20-30
degrees upward when sitting, the brightness/contrast need to be a little
more than the normal.

Any tips on how to make the black/shades look better?.
The brighter daytime scenes look awesome, its only darker scenes that
i am concerned about. Also I noticed that when i decrease the contrast
to 80-90% the darker scenes are showing less number of shades, so
I kept contrast at 100.

I tried setting gamma to 0(default is 2 on hlr4677), I notice some little
difference in the skin tones/faces in the darker scenes. Any other
things to tweak to make the darker scenes look better.

baba160, 5 ft up is pretty high to place your tv, which at least partially explains your contrast problems. although these sets do a good job of providing a wide horizontal viewing angle, the picture quality degrades rather quickly if you increase the vertical viewing angle. is there any way to safely tilt the tv a little downwards from that height?

5FT! I think 2 feet is too high.

Originally posted by baba160
1.... Is it common for screens to have this abnormality?

I don't think so. How about an exchange?

2. Also I feel the night time scenes/low ligh scenes are not showing enough detail.

You need to use a calibration disk.

Alsomy set is 5 feet above the ground
in the wall instead of the normal 3 feet, so I need to view it at
around 30 degrees vertical upward. Since I need to view with face at 20-30
degrees upward when sitting, the brightness/contrast need to be a little
more than the normal.

It would be better to tilt your TV forward slightly to get the plane of your eyes between 0 and 15 degrees.

Any other
things to tweak to make the darker scenes look better.

The DVE disk or a professional ISF calibration are both better than most eye ball guessing. ;)

Like many on this board, I hope to purchase my HL-R5067W this week. I am still undecided between TVA and a local brick and mortar store.

My issue is no one seems to have the TR46x3 stand. Even TVA is only offering the TR63x stand. I just can't see putting the floating screen design on that old stand. As pictured in the spec brochure, the new stand coupled with the floating screen design, makes the base appear as if it is part of the stand itself.

I have no problem with splitting my order and getting the stand somewhere else. I did a google search and didn't pull up any on-line vendors for the new stand.

Anyone know if Samsung has released new stands at the same time they have released TVs in the past? Any online or brick and mortar vendors that you expect to carry these stands?

Originally posted by baba160
my set is 5 feet above the ground in the wall instead of the normal 3 feet, so I need to view it at around 30 degrees vertical upward. Since I need to view with face at 20-30 degrees upward when sitting, the brightness/contrast need to be a little more than the normal. Have you considered shimming the back of your set to change the angle a little bit?

Originally posted by aaronwt
5FT! I think 2 feet is too high. I think he means 5' above ground level - not 5' above eye level!

Hi Guys! Samsung actually called me to tell me that they are replacing my defective HLP5685 with the new HLR5688. How is that for customer service? I should be getting it in a couple of weeks or so. I wonder if I will notice a big difference. I will definitely post my impressions.

Originally posted by richost
Anyone know if Samsung has released new stands at the same time they have released TVs in the past? Any online or brick and mortar vendors that you expect to carry these stands?
I think they tend to lag behind the TV sets.

I was checking the 5063 for vertical position and viewing angle and determined that the highest I would mount it would be 28" off of the floor. Any more than that and I was seeing loss of brightness and contrast on the upper part of the screen. It has got to look terrible sitting at 60" off the floor, unless your coach is sitting on a 3' platform.

Originally posted by UCSB
Inputs: 2 HDMI , 2 Component Video, 1 S-Video, 2 Composite

Does HDMI support only 5.1 surround? What about 6.1? Thanks.

Originally posted by wingnut4772
Hi Guys! Samsung actually called me to tell me that they are replacing my defective HLP5685 with the new HLR5688. How is that for customer service? I should be getting it in a couple of weeks or so. I wonder if I will notice a big difference. I will definitely post my impressions.

Wow! :eek: What a great deal for you & customer service from Samsung!

Congrats man, the Capt Kirk is beautiful design!

Thanks. I know I was blown away. The rep. actually asked me if it was ok to replace the HLP with the HLR. Ummm...let me think about that. Ha . Just in time for my B-day. Can't wait.

Originally posted by kjongsma
I think he means 5' above ground level - not 5' above eye level!

Yes. I think 2 feet is too high for the bottom of the screen. Of course I guess it depends on the height of your couch and your eye level. I plan to get a stand that is around 16" high for the Samsung 1080P set I'm getting this Summer. I was looking at the Techcraft stand. It had enough space for my center channel speaker since it only had one shef and the height is only 16". The Samsung stand I looked at had too shelves so my speaker wouldn't fit and it was over 20" high.

Originally posted by Ronnie 1.8
Does HDMI support only 5.1 surround? What about 6.1? Thanks.

From www.hdmi.org :

Does HDMI support Dolby 5.1 audio and high-resolution audio formats?

Yes. From the start, HDMI was defined to carry 8-channels, of 192kHz, 24-bit uncompressed audio, which exceeds all current consumer media formats. In addition, HDMI can carry any flavor of compressed audio format such as Dolby or DTS. (Such compressed formats are the only multi-channel or high-resolution audio formats that can be carried across the older S/PDIF or AES/EBU interfaces.) The fact that the vast majority of HDMI products shipped are two-channel TVs that don’t support more than two-channel audio doesn’t make this any less the case. Most existing HDMI sources can output any compressed stream, and the newer sources can output uncompressed 6-channel, 96kHz audio from a DVD-Audio disk. There are several A/V receivers on the market that can accept and process the 6- or 8-channel audio from HDMI and more are expected to be available shortly.

Originally posted by schaffer970
From www.hdmi.org :

Does HDMI support Dolby 5.1 audio and high-resolution audio formats?

Yes. From the start, HDMI was defined to carry 8-channels, of 192kHz, 24-bit uncompressed audio, which exceeds all current consumer media formats. In addition, HDMI can carry any flavor of compressed audio format such as Dolby or DTS. (Such compressed formats are the only multi-channel or high-resolution audio formats that can be carried across the older S/PDIF or AES/EBU interfaces.) The fact that the vast majority of HDMI products shipped are two-channel TVs that don’t support more than two-channel audio doesn’t make this any less the case. Most existing HDMI sources can output any compressed stream, and the newer sources can output uncompressed 6-channel, 96kHz audio from a DVD-Audio disk. There are several A/V receivers on the market that can accept and process the 6- or 8-channel audio from HDMI and more are expected to be available shortly.
This is great, schaffer970. Thanks.

a shot of the individual color controls.

Has anyone compared the LHR 4667 with the 4663 side by side? How does the newer chip effect PQ?

What about 4667 vs 4677? Is the difference in sharpness as great as with the 4663 vs 4674?

4663's are cheap. is it worth the wait and upcharge for the 4667? what about for the 4677?

Finally (I think I have asked this before) does anyone know a) when if 4667 will be available in Canada and b) IFF the 4677 will be offered north of the 49th?

Originally posted by andybm
4663's are cheap. is it worth the wait and upcharge for the 4667? Keep in mind that the HLR4667W comes with an integrated HD tuner. That's a $300 extra for the older models. The 100/120W bulb, 10000 RPM color wheel, air bearing, and HD4 chip are just bonuses! :)

I'm confused with the adequate placement of these big tv's. I'm going to be getting the 6168 model. Should I sit in my normal sitting area and measure the height of my head to the floor then try and get the middle of the tv that high off the ground with a stand? How can I plan this ahead of time so that I'm not sitting the tv on the floor until i get a good stand?

It's my understanding that, when seated, you measure from the ground to your eye level. That distance should equate to the middle of the 6168's screen.

And, yes, it appears that an adequate stand is almost as big a problem for some as choosing a set!

Originally posted by MikeAlletto
I'm confused with the adequate placement of these big tv's. I'm going to be getting the 6168 model. Should I sit in my normal sitting area and measure the height of my head to the floor then try and get the middle of the tv that high off the ground with a stand? How can I plan this ahead of time so that I'm not sitting the tv on the floor until i get a good stand?

You can use the technical drawings for the HLP6163W in POST #1 (or on Samsung site) for planning your installation and stand purchase. You could also look at the dimensions of Samsung's current HLP6163W stand and this would be a good example of what you should be looking for in a HLR6168W stand. If you find a nice stand that brings the TV a little above eye level, don't worry it will be OK. I did a detailed analysis of vertical viewing angle (plus photos) earlier in this thread.

The absolute best picture is when your line of sight is centered on the screen, but you can be below this imaginary line and still get good results.

From the measurements on pg 1 of this post, the (verticle) center of the screen is 26.7" above the bottom of the set. (This would presumably be lowered ~ 1" if one removed the 'foot'.) E.g. if one were to use the Oppli stand from Ikea (15.75" H), this would put the screen center at ~42.5", just about ideal.

I was looking at the Tech Craft 60" TV Stand (TC60LCB). It's dimensions are 14.5" x 63.3" x 17.3". 14.5" height for a 6168 tv would put the center at about a 42" height. The width of the stand is good, but the depth is a fraction small which isn't that big of a deal.

Originally posted by MikeAlletto
I was looking at the Tech Craft 60" TV Stand (TC60LCB). It's dimensions are 14.5" x 63.3" x 17.3". 14.5" height for a 6168 tv would put the center at about a 42" height. The width of the stand is good, but the depth is a fraction small which isn't that big of a deal.

The depth should be no problem. The base of these dlp's is severall inches less deep than the total depth of the set.

Looks like Samsung is in the process of putting the HLRxx67's up on their website. The HLR4667 is partially up. :)

Originally posted by schaffer970
Looks like Samsung is in the process of putting the HLRxx67's up on their website. The HLR4667 is partially up. :)

yep, the hlr5067 and hlr5667 are also partially up on the site.

quick question. how is the signal quality of the DNET (firewire) compared to hdmi? my comcast motorola 6412 box has firewire output and i'm wondering whether there will be any loss in quality if i use the firewire versus hdmi.

Originally posted by schaffer970
Looks like Samsung is in the process of putting the HLRxx67's up on their website. The HLR4667 is partially up. :) And it appears that they have dropped the list price to $2499... Have queried Kirk in the powerbuy thread to see if that will change anything.

The game is afoot... ;)

Originally posted by kjongsma
And it appears that they have dropped the list price to $2499... Have queried Kirk in the powerbuy thread to see if that will change anything.

Advertised price is not MSRP, but usually $200 less.

Originally posted by UCSB
Advertised price is not MSRP, but usually $200 less. Ture - but up until today, I've not seen manufacturers quote any other price on their own web site (or any other marketing material) other than list. They don't like to be seen competing with their retailers.

Makes it hard for the dealers that want to sell at list price (with "support") when a customer walks in with a manufacturer's price that is below list.

There has been some discussion over on the Qualia Owners thread about firewire. It appears that quality via firewire may actually be better on the Qualia that via HDMI (and I'm not sure what they were using as the firewire source). I think that I have also read that firewire from the STBs result in a loss of channel guide etc.

Originally posted by schaffer970
There has been some discussion over on the Qualia Owners thread about firewire. It appears that quality via firewire may actually be better on the Qualia that via HDMI (and I'm not sure what they were using as the firewire source). I think that I have also read that firewire from the STBs result in a loss of channel guide etc.

I read that and was shocked. I thought I-link had long since been avoided and abandonded for any video useage.

The MPAA was shocked too!

Yes, on screen displays are hard to send through an mpeg 2 stream to the display.

Mitsubishi is big into firewire. My WD52525 has 3 firewire ports. I can even record an MPEG2 stream from the TV's internal tuner to my PC. Or you can record to a digital VHS VCR from the internal tuner. But it is bi-directional, so you can send video to the TV, as well. It is a nice setup. All digital cable boxes must have a firewire port because the FCC forces them to. I suspect that it will start to catch on like uh..wildfire in the next few years.

thanks for the info on firewire. does that mean i may not be able to get the comcast channel guide etc. if i hook up the comcast motorola 6412 stb using firewire? that seems kind of weird, but what do i know?

I wonder what's better: HDMI or Firewire?

The "image view" button is working for the 5067 on the samsung site. Not sure about the other TV's but that one is.

Originally posted by aircasper
thanks for the info on firewire. does that mean i may not be able to get the comcast channel guide etc. if i hook up the comcast motorola 6412 stb using firewire? that seems kind of weird, but what do i know?

I have no real idea of what works and what doesn't. I would suggest you look around here: HDTV Hardware (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=25). There is lots of information on the 6412 and what it can and can't do and how to get it to do it. :D

Quote
_____________________________________________________

Originally posted by Shape:
All digital cable boxes must have a firewire port because the FCC forces them to.
_____________________________________________________

I have the latest HD DVR supplied by Time Warner (SFA Explorer 8300), which does not have a firewire port.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/STBs.html

"The FCC issued a requirement that a 1394 interface be included in all satellite and cable STBs when requested by the customer. The deadline for this was April 1, 2004. Most companies made a halfhearted attempt at complying. Some of these 1394 ports talk only with certain devices, such as D-VHS recorders. DirecTV has totally refused to comply and has stated publicly that it never will. The FCC is an enormously powerful agency, but they often look for compromise. How this contest of wills will end is presently unclear."

I just bought the HLR6167w from C.C. it gets delivered tomorrow on 05/05/2005. What a wonderful cinco gift. Plus C.C. had a 10% discount on the t.v. I got it for a wonderful price. I will post plenty of pictures tomorrow after I get it.

Originally posted by Shape
All digital cable boxes must have a firewire port because the FCC forces them to.

OK, but are they required to be active. My cable company provided an STB with all sorts of outputs on the back but I could only use the component, composite and s-video outs.

Originally posted by cjlawson
I just bought the HLR6167w from C.C. it gets delivered tomorrow on 05/05/2005. What a wonderful cinco gift. Plus C.C. had a 10% discount on the t.v. I got it for a wonderful price. I will post plenty of pictures tomorrow after I get it.

Look forward to seeing them! Have fun setting it all up.

Originally posted by vandu
Quote
_____________________________________________________

Originally posted by Shape:
All digital cable boxes must have a firewire port because the FCC forces them to.
_____________________________________________________

I have the latest HD DVR supplied by Time Warner (SFA Explorer 8300), which does not have a firewire port.

That is really wierd. I know that Shape is wrong, and that they only have to give it to you if you ask. However, it is strange that your Time Warner 8300 does not have firewire ports. That is because the Time Warner here in Austin, TX uses Scientific Atlanta 8000 HD/DVR box. It has Firewire ports on it. Is your 8300 a DVR box?

ALSO: If you want to save some cash most cable companys now have the CableCARDS available. In Austin they are only $2 compared to $8 for the set-top box. Thats $72 for the year, but you dont get On Demand crap or the interactive guide.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by flashgordon333
_____________________________________________________
That is really wierd. I know that Shape is wrong, and that they only have to give it to you if you ask. However, it is strange that your Time Warner 8300 does not have firewire ports. That is because the Time Warner here in Austin, TX uses Scientific Atlanta 8000 HD/DVR box. It has Firewire ports on it. Is your 8300 a DVR box?
_____________________________________________________

The 8300 is a DVR box, which I am very pleased with except for not having the firewire port. I’ll check on an 8300 with firewire, after I purchase an HLR6168 later this year. The SFA website shows firewire as an option for the 8300.

Anybody who doubts the fact that firewire outputs from Cable boxes/Satellite receivers rarely work should take a peek at the HD Recorder forum. Sometimes Cable PVRs work great--sometimes they do not. It's alot of hassle but you can get your cable provider to provide active Firewire--I may be wron, but I think the regulation of supporting Firewire output does not pertain to satellite offerings of premium material. All i know is if you want the most versatile Firewire inputs/outputs in Rear Projection go with Mitsubishi!

That is really wierd. I know that Shape is wrong, and that they only have to give it to you if you ask. However, it is strange that your Time Warner 8300 does not have firewire ports. That is because the Time Warner here in Austin, TX uses Scientific Atlanta 8000 HD/DVR box. It has Firewire ports on it. Is your 8300 a DVR box?

I'm in Austin also, go down and swap your 8000 box for an 8300hd dvr. Its a lot faster and a larger hard drive. Also supports external SATA hard drives for added storage. I don't even have a HDTV yet and I swapped my 8000dvr for a 8300 hd dvr. It downconverts the hidef material to work on my non hidef tv also. Its a great box. I've had it for about a month now. They've had the boxes available for much longer though.

I thought this was a Samsung thread. :)

Originally posted by cjlawson
I thought this was a Samsung thread. :)
Only you can prevent thread rot!

Just got off the phone with my local Sears. The man said the HLR5067 is availible for order, but with delivery on the 22nd. They won't have a floor model until about mid-May or later.

I purchased the HLR5067 today and it will be delivered this weekend

Notes:

Went to my local BB. As expected, none on display but if you looked it up you could order one at the Samsung "Advertised Price" as shown on the Samsung Website. Clerk said their was no discount this week except for the BB rewards and extended financing. I would have pulled the trigger as I wanted it before Mid May. Unfortuantely, earliest delivery was 5/20, as the TVs were still in the main warehouses and had not hit the local warehouses yet. I also checked on the TR46x3 stand. Same availability. I ended up leaving the store without making a purchase.

I then went to a local NJ electronics chain. They had the TV listed on their website for the same price as BB and Samsung. Again, none on display, but when they checked the computer, 2 were in stock. I was given a price @10% below their own website price and 10% below the Samsung Advertised Price and a delivery date of this weekend. I was sold. I then asked about the stand, but they were not in stock yet. Oh well, i can wait a few weeks for a stand as I have a very sturdy marble coffee table that is more than big enough to hold my TV, Tivo, cable box and DVD player.

So now I have a few days to cleanout a wall unit I have had for almost 10 years and make room for my new Rig.

Originally posted by millerwill
From the measurements on pg 1 of this post, the (verticle) center of the screen is 26.7" above the bottom of the set. (This would presumably be lowered ~ 1" if one removed the 'foot'.) E.g. if one were to use the Oppli stand from Ikea (15.75" H), this would put the screen center at ~42.5", just about ideal.

Your math may be better than mine, but I came up with 24.5 inches from the center of the screen of the 6168 to the bottom of the set. From post #1 - Kirk's measurements overall width is 57 inches and overall height is 41.5 inches. Given that the 61 has a diagonal screen size of 61 inches then the actual dimensions of the screen are 53 inches wide by 30 inches high. Subtract 53 inch screen width from the overall set width of 57 inches leaves 4 inches for the border (2 inches on each side and the top). The bottom of the actual screen is 9.5 inches from the bottom of the set, 41.5 overall height - 30 inches screen height - 2 inches border. Finally mid screen height is 15 inches (1/2 of the 30 inch total screen height) + 9.5 inches base to bottom of screen. QED, I get 24.5 inches.

Sorry if I am being anal about this, but I want to make sure I'm not missing something as I am in the process of building a stand.

schaffer970: Your calculational methodology is the same as mine, but mine was for the 6768 set; sorry I didn't clarify that. So our think that we are both right!

millerwill - Ok, I wasn't paying attention - I somehow thought you were using the 61. At least everyone should be happy now as they will have numbers for both sets. Thanks for double checking - measure twice, cut once! :D

Originally posted by cjlawson
I just bought the HLR6167w from C.C. it gets delivered tomorrow on 05/05/2005. What a wonderful cinco gift. Plus C.C. had a 10% discount on the t.v. I got it for a wonderful price. I will post plenty of pictures tomorrow after I get it.

their website still shows the HLPs, how much you pay total?

On another size-related issue, note that the 'large' Oppli stand from Ikea, which is 15.75"high (ie, just right for the 'big screens'), is only 59" W, and thus not quite wide enough for the 67" and 71" Sammy, or the 73" Mits (unless one let's the set protrude a few inches beyond the stand). However there is a small, 23 5/8" wide, Oppli (same height), $49, and three of these makes 71" wide. It would be quite easy to connect these with 'mending plates' attached to the front and rear. And three of these supports > 250 lbs, plenty for any of these sets.

just to add my stand search experience.

I plan on buying a 5667W or 6167W and i have a very wide center channel and i wanted enclosed component shelves.

i settled on Bush Furniture VS31843 at racks and stands Dot Com. it has a metallic wood laminate finish. a lot cheaper than salamander.
overall dimensions 27 1/8" H x 59 3/4" W x 23 1/2" D. huge center channel shelf (only one that would fit mine). extra storage on sides and 2 pull out drawers. works nice so far,now we just need is......

SOMEONE TO REVIEW THE **67W series.

I have yet to find a stand that meets my size requirements (53"Wx18"Hx20"D) If anyone has any reccomendations on a custom tubular steel manufacturer PM me. www.boltz.com used to take special orders but it appears that they stopped doing so. I have plans for a stand I could build out of wood but would prefer a metal stand to reduce bulk / increase usable shelf space.

Well Samsung just refunded me in full for my 2nd replacement HLP6163 that I bought through the HLP TVA Powerbuy... I now need to make a major decision get a HLR6167 now or wait for the HLR6168 or if the price is really affordable I will consider a HLR6768...Is June/July here yet! This is going to be a long 2 months. Is the new 1080p models that much better than the new720 models...guess I will have to wait.

Originally posted by madjimithing
just to add my stand search experience.

I plan on buying a 5667W or 6167W and i have a very wide center channel and i wanted enclosed component shelves.

i settled on Bush Furniture VS31843 at racks and stands Dot Com. it has a metallic wood laminate finish. a lot cheaper than salamander.
overall dimensions 27 1/8" H x 59 3/4" W x 23 1/2" D. huge center channel shelf (only one that would fit mine). extra storage on sides and 2 pull out drawers. works nice so far,now we just need is......

SOMEONE TO REVIEW THE **67W series.

Is that to say that you are going to put your center channel in the slot below the TV (looking at the stand right now on their website)?

I was under the impression that putting the center channel below the TV would result in sub optimal sound performance

I was under the impression that putting the center channel below the TV would result in sub optimal sound performance

I've never heard that, and hope it's not true. As most of the HLR's seem to no longer have a center-channel shelf, I know I plan to place it directly below the set.

Originally posted by shrikedoa
I've never heard that, and hope it's not true. As most of the HLR's seem to no longer have a center-channel shelf, I know I plan to place it directly below the set.

I've never tried below the TV, so I can't comment from personal experience, but in reading about home theater speaker placement, the optimal location for the center channel is just above seated head height (which would make on top of the TV the likely candidate).

But I don't see much way to do that with those TVs that don't have a center channel shelf, unless you are using a cabinet TV stand (or custom build a shelf to hang on the wall as I've seen some people do)

I see several folks wanting to build their own stand for the various models they plan on purchasing. Is the primary reason because the matching stand doesn't provide a space for the speaker channel, or another reason? Cost? I personally really like the Samsung stand that will come with the HL-R6168W.

Originally posted by shrikedoa
I've never heard that, and hope it's not true. As most of the HLR's seem to no longer have a center-channel shelf, I know I plan to place it directly below the set.

Most persons do say that it is better to have the center speaker higher rather than lower (if it can't be right at ear level). They also recommend against having it in an enclosed environment.

There are many ways to rig a placement at the top of your tv even though the set itself has no room to set the speaker on. There are some commercially available mounts, but I have a do-it-yourself version that works fine: it is simply a bookshelf supported on two brackets, which themselves are supported from two verticle strips screwed securely into the wall behind my tv. Remember the old bookshelves we all rigged up in college? The ones I use are the heavier duty version, from Home Depot. The longest support brackets stick out 24", though I only needed the 18.5" ones. The shelf is level with the top on my tv, and comes right up behind it. The center speaker (Ascend 340C) looks like it's perched right on top of the set.

Originally posted by millerwill
There are many ways to rig a placement at the top of your tv even though the set itself has no room to set the speaker on. There are some commercially available mounts, but I have a do-it-yourself version that works fine: it is simply a bookshelf supported on two brackets, which themselves are supported from two verticle strips screwed securely into the wall behind my tv.

Great suggestion, millerwill. I'll keep it in mind for my theatre, although I'm working with a pro installer and would hope he has solutions for the center speaker, as well. So if the recommended location for a center channel is ear level, and the recommended location for the center of the tv is eye level, something has to give. Assuming the horizontal center of the center channel and the horizontal center of the tv are in vertical alignment. So the center channel must go either below or above the tv. Yeah, a wall-mount makes a lot of sense.

The hanging bookshelf sounds like a good solution. It would definitely open up more stand options. Removing "centered, open, top shelf" from the list of criteria would be nice. Just have to make it work in a corner :)

I am getting ready to take the plunge and buy this TV but need some help with a stand to fit it. The Samsung stand TR 63X is great except... the depth is over 20" - Since the TV is just over 14" and Samsung makes a big thing of the slim (fit anywhere) size, why on earth would they make the stand 20" and non adjustable for depth?

Anyone know of a stand that is 15" deep vice 20" and would fit the HLR 5067w? I would really prefer an Oak stand but may have to have one custom made>

Thx