Target, Walmart and Ikea all have a bunch of stands that can be used for a 50"+ TV. Just search their websites. Can't wait for my 5677!!!!

Just got my HLR6167w. Picture looks great but I see lots of rainbows. Here is a pic for you.

Originally posted by cjlawson
Just got my HLR6167w. Picture looks great but I see lots of rainbows. Here is a pic for you.

Did you spend much time looking for DLP rainbows in the stores before you made your purchase? I'm just wondering as I have spent some time in BB & CC but have not seen any rainbows yet.

Originally posted by cjlawson
Just got my HLR6167w. Picture looks great but I see lots of rainbows. Here is a pic for you.

congrats! please share your thoughts about the set and PQ after you've had time to soak everything in.

Originally posted by cjlawson
Just got my HLR6167w. Picture looks great but I see lots of rainbows. Here is a pic for you.

Thanks very much for the great picture! But you know, I'm beginning to have second thoughts about the 'floating screen' design that I originally thought I liked much better than the 'black laquor' of the xx78 series. Your picture shows what I'm not sure I like, namely that one can see through the gap between the base and the 'floating screen', and see all the crap (wire, colored wall, etc.) behind the set; I think it may actually be distracting. I may be switching my preference to the xx78 design, where all of this is hidden. (Of course, this may just be rationalization, since I'm most interested in the 71" set that only comes in the xx78 format!)

. . . but honey, you don't want to see all of those wires and the 61 is just a tad too small. I guess we will just have to go with the 71. :D

Thats my story and I'm sticking to it. Good luck!

Originally posted by schaffer970
. . . but honey, you don't want to see all of those wires and the 61 is just a tad too small. I guess we will just have to go with the 71. :D

Thats my story and I'm sticking to it. Good luck!

Heh! I like that! :D

Originally posted by schaffer970
. . . but honey, you don't want to see all of those wires and the 61 is just a tad too small. I guess we will just have to go with the 71. :D

Thats my story and I'm sticking to it. Good luck!

Hey, don't knock it! If it works,.... .

You should always angle your center channel speaker to point directly at your ears, whether it is below or above the screen.

Typically you want it as close to the center of the screen as possible, as the audio frequencies of voices are directional. That is, human ears can detect where they come from. It isn't natural to see two people speaking while hearing their voices coming down from the ceiling or up from the floor. Angling the speaker will help some with this, but will not fully compensate.

And yes, you do want to avoid placing your speaker into an enclosed cabinet, if you place a high priority on the sonic fidelity of your setup. A lot of people don't care that much and don't spend that much on their speaker. But if you buy a high-quality center speaker and then put it into a home entertainment center on an enclosed shelf, its performance will suffer - especially if it has a rear-firing port.

If it is sealed or has a front-firing port, then if you can position the front of the speaker to overhang the edge of the cabinet by an inch or so, then you will minimize the hit on audio performance, although it still won't sound its very best.

Originally posted by cjlawson
Picture looks great but I see lots of rainbows.

Boy, this is really disappointing. Are both you and your wife seeing rainbows to an equal degree? How dark is your room when you are watching? Are you using any power conditioning on your system?

Tell me about it...

Honey, I know you wanted the set for (last) Christmas, but the new 1080 sets are coming out soon and they will be sooo much better. Just trust me it will all be ok.

The new sets had better be here soon or I'm toast! :D

Isn't the 67 essentially the same as the 63, but with a tuner?

Originally posted by Shape
Isn't the 67 essentially the same as the 63, but with a tuner?

No. The 67 has an integrated tuner, 100/120W dual rated lamp, 10000 RPM color wheel, and the "HD4" DLP chip.

Originally posted by kjongsma
No. The 67 has a 100/120W dual rated lamp, 10000 RPM color wheel, and the "HD4" DLP chip.

the hlpxx63 and hlpxx67 are similar, except the hlpxx67 has the built-in tuner and cable card, minus the hlpxx63's vga and dvi inputs.

the hlrxx67 improves on the hlpxx67 with the dual rated lamp and HD4 chip (resulting in higher contrast ratio). note that the hlrxx67, hlpxx63 and hlpxx67 each have a 7 segment 10,800rpm (or something like that) color wheel.

In looking at the 1st home pictures...I am now convinced that the Samsung stand is the only way to go with the floating screen design. Otherwise, the small pedastal along with the floating screen, makes it look like it's sitting on a silver 2x4. The Samsung stand hides the pedastal and incorpates the silver base into the stand

Originally posted by richost
In looking at the 1st home pictures...I am now convinced that the Samsung stand is the only way to go with the floating screen design. Otherwise, the small pedastal along with the floating screen, makes it look like it's sitting on a silver 2x4. The Samsung stand hides the pedastal and incorpates the silver base into the stand

I believe the small pedestal (or so-called stabilizing 'foot') is removable, as it is on the hlp6163. And with my hlp6163, the set is actually MORE stable sitting flat on my wooden stand than it is with the 'foot'. I'm guessing that this is true also for the xx67 etc. sets. But can someone confirm this, i.e., that the 'foot' is removable?

Originally posted by cjlawson
Just got my HLR6167w. Picture looks great but I see lots of rainbows. Here is a pic for you.

I'm not sure what the rainbows are in that picture? Is it the blue light diagonal in the top RH corner?

Originally posted by AkaStp what is the point of a 120W bulb mode? At a minimum, the bulb will last a lot longer...

Has anyone with the new Samsung DLP tried the TV Guide Feature. Are you able to see the over the air digital and analog station programming or it it mainly for Cable TV channels?

i getting ready to buy a panasonic dlp, my question is should I get the HLR5067W with the newer tech? is the PQ better?

Originally posted by millerwill
I believe the small pedestal (or so-called stabilizing 'foot') is removable, as it is on the hlp6163. And with my hlp6163, the set is actually MORE stable sitting flat on my wooden stand than it is with the 'foot'. I'm guessing that this is true also for the xx67 etc. sets. But can someone confirm this, i.e., that the 'foot' is removable?

I have confirmation from Samsung that the 'foot' is removable.

If it's more stable on the stand, what is the point of the 'foot'.? Will it tip over easily without the 'foot'? How difficult is it to remove the foot, or did the delivery people remove it?

Originally posted by aaronwt
If it's more stable on the stand, what is the point of the 'foot'.? Will it tip over easily without the 'foot'? How difficult is it to remove the foot, or did the delivery people remove it?

Samsung added the foot to help prevent the TV from tipping forward. But, if you remove it, you shouldn't have any trouble thinking of a way to insure that your unit does not tip over (fasten to stand or wall or cabinet). Several owners in this thread removed the foot from their HLP units without any problems. I wouldn't expect that delivery people would remove it.

Seems like it would be a little difficult with 1 person. I guess I'll have to leave it on, although it would be nice to lose the extra inch. I was looking at a stand from Racksand stands that is 64" wide that should work well with either the 61" or 67".
Plateau CR-2V(64) (http://www.racksandstands.com/prods/Plateau/CR-2V-64/0PPT0066.htm)

Originally posted by aaronwt
Seems like it would be a little difficult with 1 person. I guess I'll have to leave it on, although it would be nice to lose the extra inch. I was looking at a stand from Racksand stands that is 64" wide that should work well with either the 61" or 67".
Plateau CR-2V(64) (http://www.racksandstands.com/prods/Plateau/CR-2V-64/0PPT0066.htm) I have that exact stand for my HLP6163 with foot remove on HLP...this stand holds all of my gear and then some...stand has excellent build quality...stand looks awesome with Samsung unit...I received a huge discount just for asking from Racks and Stands... I believe I talk to Mark...Good choice.

It's trivial to remove the foot. With my hlp6163, my wife and I set it on the floor (rug) and tipped it forward a bit; with her holding it I removed the 10 screws from the bottom that hold it on. We then lifted it back up on the stand; nice that it's only 95 lbs!

I don't think you will be able to tell the difference with a 50" set at 12 ft. But you should of course check this out very carefully yourself. Just bring your own chair, a tape measure, and plant your self down in front of them for an hour or two!

DNIe is always on. I retract my statement about rainbows. I see them but when I just watch the tv and try not to look for them I barley ever notice them. The picture is so good that it isn't really a distraction.

The PQ is great. It has a very smooth picture but is also very sharp. Blacks are very good. Almost CRT blacks.

I tried playing madden on it today and I think I noticed a slight delay. This was done on X-box at 480p. I will do some more testing tomorrow. If there was a delay it is ever so slight.

I have not noticed any lip sync delay. The voice is dead on.

I am only sitting 8 ft from the tv and the picture still looks very sharp. I have a 61 inch.

The build quality could have been better. Very cheap plastic.

There is no audible fan noise at all.

It has two firewire inputs.

PIP is great lots of option.

The gap between the bast and the tv is not a problem at all. I can't see through.

I will buy the Samsung stand when it is available.

Well back to watching.

Shouldn't DNIe be on? I thought it is supposed to make the picture sharper and clearer? Glad you like the set. I'm thinking about getting this set too. I'm a big gamer so I hope there isn't much lag or delays, especially once the new Xbox 360 comes out.

Originally posted by cjlawson
I am only sitting 8 ft from the tv and the picture still looks very sharp. I have a 61 inch.

OK ... I'm feeling better about your earlier comment about rainbows. 8 ft from a 61" set could encourage a lot of rapid eye movement. Especially with a new set that you were trying to evaluate.

Amazon has the TR46x3 stand in stock. The price is lower than I expected and has free shipping available. I am sure a lot of other sites will start to have it in stock shortly. However, as of this morning, I still could not find it anywhere else online. Additionally, my local BB and CC, still did not have it available when I checked the stores themselves yesterday.

Originally posted by SonyHD
Shouldn't DNIe be on? I thought it is supposed to make the picture sharper and clearer?

rumor (and many many many posts in AVS) seems to indicate that the lip-sync or lag issue comes from the many processing steps, DNIe included.

rumor (and many many many posts in AVS) also seems to indicate that the lip-sync or lag issue is not as obvious unless you have sound going to the receiver instead of using the tv's speakers. Having both receiver speakers AND tv speakers on, rumor (ammmpiAVS) says that you'll hear a slight echo.

Originally posted by terkar
I am getting ready to take the plunge and buy this TV but need some help with a stand to fit it. The Samsung stand TR 63X is great except... the depth is over 20" - Since the TV is just over 14" and Samsung makes a big thing of the slim (fit anywhere) size, why on earth would they make the stand 20" and non adjustable for depth?

Anyone know of a stand that is 15" deep vice 20" and would fit the HLR 5067w? I would really prefer an Oak stand but may have to have one custom made>

Thx

I agree. I need to have the thinest possible stand for a new DLP. I want something that is also 15" deep but the problem here is that I will have my Yamaha 2400 receiver below and that beast is 17" deep. So I at least need 17 or 18 or 19 inches to play with.

Here is a good looking and affordable stand that is very thin from CC: http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Nea-Moda-Wide-TV-Stand-220337-/sem/rpsm/oid/110765/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

I will most likely get this one. It may be a big wide but I plan on using that extra space for my satellite speakers. Cause each of them are 3" wide and the HLR5067 is 46.6" wide. So there I have about 53" plus a gap on each side and that brings me to about 56" total in width with the speakers. So this seems like a decent stand.

The new stand for the 46" HL-R is the TR46L5S. I believe the older model is the TR46X3. I found the newer stand on TV Authority's website.

The new TR46x3 and TR61x2 stands are all 17.8 inches deep. Not quite the 15 inches you need, but pretty close. The only issue I see with the stand is that the glass shelves are shorter than I would like. However, I will wait to get it setup and then buy new custom glass shelves only if I need them. The glass itself should be cheap.

Also, unless you have a serious space issue, you may find 15" too short for some components. I figure between the front space you may want for aestecic reasons and room behind for plugs to stick out, 17.8 is even cutting it close. However, I will admit, this is all about personal preference.

Originally posted by SonyHD
The new stand for the 46" HL-R is the TR46L5S. I believe the older model is the TR46X3. I found the newer stand on TV Authority's website.

As per the Samsung website, the TR46L5S was designed for the HLN and HLP series

As per the Samsung DLP TV 2005 Collection brochure the actual new stand for the HLR 46-56 is the TR46x3. The HLR61-67 use TR61x2. The HLR42 uses the TR4266.

The new stands, with the exception of the 42, now have two holes for cables on the back on either side, instead of the old format of having the holes in the middle. the 61/67 has a single shelf while the others have two shelves

Note: I would bet either shelf would still work anyway

Originally posted by richost
The new TR46x3 and TR61x2 stands are all 17.8 inches deep. Not quite the 15 inches you need, but pretty close. The only issue I see with the stand is that the glass shelves are shorter than I would like. However, I will wait to get it setup and then buy new custom glass shelves only if I need them. The glass itself should be cheap.

Also, unless you have a serious space issue, you may find 15" too short for some components. I figure between the front space you may want for aestecic reasons and room behind for plugs to stick out, 17.8 is even cutting it close. However, I will admit, this is all about personal preference.

17.8, thats perfect. Any links for those?

I thought that the DNIe was supposed to be on? According to Samsung's online brochure, its supposed to make sharpest and clearest images possible on the set. However if it causes lag issues, then maybe its not worth it. Anyone want to chime in on this?

Originally posted by SonyHD
I thought that the DNIe was supposed to be on? According to Samsung's online brochure, its supposed to make sharpest and clearest images possible on the set. However if it causes lag issues, then maybe its not worth it. Anyone want to chime in on this?

it's only relevant if you play twitch games. Otherwise, for most non-gamers or non-twitchgame-players, it's not a big issue at all.

twitch games? what exactly are those?

I can only fit a 42-47inch HDTV in my room... Is the HL-R4266W going to be awesome?

Don't those of you that have the Samsung Stand notice that the stand is 20" deep while the TV (HLP5063 or HLR5067) is only 14" deep? Why has this not been addressed in any forum? I don't want a tv and stand projecting out 20" from the wall, but all stands seem to be 20" deep????

I had just resigned myself to going to Cotsco to pick up a 5674 squeezing it into the corner of the room when I check cnet.com and find out that there are quite a few online retailers who have the R-5067 for about 2k! (I double checked, R, not P)

I am really anxious to hear results from anyone on this forum who has seen a R-xx67. Its kind of wierd, I have been following this thread for what seems like forever, yet no one has written about seeing the sets, only the specs. Would have thought everyone would have been coming out of the woodwork with units that they purchased, but maybe everyone is like me, just waiting for someone else to take the plunge.

SubWoofer, I know you and I are looking for the same thing, hd2+ w VGA non Kirk, really wanted to see how xx67 stacks up against hd2+.

BTW, 3 weeks ago Tweeter said they would be getting sets in on the 6th, and it is true! Don't know if they will have floor models to evaluate, or if first batch is all pre orders.

Greetings,
I just returned from Costco and did buy the 5674. I posted my experiences in the "put me out of my misery" thread. I saw the 67 series at the NYC HES and wasn't impressed enough with the pq differences to wait any longer so I went with the 5674. The other thread explains why, but ymmv.
b.

Originally posted by terkar
Don't those of you that have the Samsung Stand notice that the stand is 20" deep while the TV (HLP5063 or HLR5067) is only 14" deep? Why has this not been addressed in any forum? I don't want a tv and stand projecting out 20" from the wall, but all stands seem to be 20" deep????

I would think it is so your components will fit underneath with plenty of room. My receiver is 15" deep so a 20 inch deep stand minus 1 inch for the back only would leave 4" of clearance for the back of the reciver.

Originally posted by AkaStp
Should the difference between a HD2 or HD2+ and a HD3 be blantantly obvious at a 12' viewing distance on a 50" TV?

I compared them side by side at Magnolia at about this distance and the difference was VERY apparent.

I had no problem at all in seeing an obvious difference between a 5085 and a 5063 at 12'.

I'm looking at a Salamander stand for my 6168 or 6178. The DLP is 18.4" deep, while the stand is 19.75" deep. Do we know if these sets can be turned approx 20 degrees on this stand, while still maintaining stability? It would depend on the shape of the bottom of the set. Also, does anyone know if the center-channel sound would be "off" if there was a 20 degree difference in the direction of the stand vs the set? Thanks. I've seen it said in this thread that picking the stand can be as difficult as picking the set - no kidding!! :eek:

You know as we get closer and closer to this HDTV madness, I just get more excited... and annoyed... Without going into huge details - a government related issue has arose that may indeed take 100% of my TV fund away from me... so I'm hoping to sort that out soon...

Also, I consider Samsung the only HDTV maker to go with because from what I can tell, they're the only company who makes SMALL HDTV's....

Every other HDTV i've seen is like 5 feet tall and has a huge base to it, why? what the heck for? Samsung's are just the screen, then some little speakers at the bottom, why do I need a 300lb TV over a 100lb Samsung?

*sighs* ah well....

Oh and for those curious, you lot used 1.8GB of Bandwidth on my server two months ago :)

- D

Daphoid,

I've read your entries over the past weeks (months) and hope that it all works out the way you want.

I'm waiting, impatiently (very), for any official 6168w news - the days are dwindling to a precious few and I have no patience!

Ed:

Thanks for the concern! :) I hope so too! I feel your lack of patience as well.. I just want to make the right decision, buy the right combination of cables to get the best picture overall for each device, and finally sit back and enjoy it!

On top of all this I just started a summer semester of school :(

- D

I've been sitting (standing, pacing,....) without my HDTV since 10/04. I had to change my attitude re: being deprived to one of positive anticipation (or else, go nuts!)

I have NO idea if I'll love the 6168w or not. I've always had CRT sets - this will be my first foray into the unknown. I also don't know if I'll be one of the lucky ones to see the dreaded side effects this technology may offer, but...

I've read and partially participated in this discussion since page 1 and have already built the 6168w up in my mind this is THE set...I really hope it is.

Originally posted by Ed Weinman
I've been sitting (standing, pacing,....) without my HDTV since 10/04. I had to change my attitude re: being deprived to one of positive anticipation (or else, go nuts!)

I have NO idea if I'll love the 6168w or not. I've always had CRT sets - this will be my first foray into the unknown. I also don't know if I'll be one of the lucky ones to see the dreaded side effects this technology may offer, but...

I've read and partially participated in this discussion since page 1 and have already built the 6168w up in my mind this is THE set...I really hope it is.

How in the HELL have you lasted this long?! 10-04?! How's come you didn't make a move on something a LOT sooner! You truly must have the patience of Job himself!

I couldn't agree more.... I've been contemplating the HLR6768, but if that price difference is as step as it appears to be, I'll go with teh HLR6168 and be a happy camper.

I don't see a need for the 78 series, it does look a little fancier, but the floating screen does scream geek, whereas the 78 is more luxury...

Either way, I can't wait, and my installer is giving me a free ISF calibration too!

- D

EDIT: as for "standing without HDTV", I've never owned one, I'm currently using a Sony Wega 24" CRT with my home theater.... that's right, my big Xiom M60's and QS8's and VP150, and that beefy SVS PB2-Plus.... all with a 24" Sony..

Can you see why I want a bigger screen?

anyone out there want to comment on their **67W????

i too have no hd,but have an HDTV Dish 942 DVR box that downconverts.

thisbig of a purchase i have to see it in person and hear some user feedback

Did you ever have a set, or anything, in repair for four (4) months! My Philips 55" HDTV "died" because of an electrical surge. Every time the technician fixed one aspect of the set, something else went wrong! He tried...boy, did he try!...but...

I loved watching the damn'd thing for almost 2 1/2 years. (I kind'a said to my self since purchasing the Philips that, if anything went wrong with it, I'd toss it. Little did I know! To add insult to injury, the set was ISD'd two days prior to it's demise.)

Oh, well.

Self deprivation is a sobering technique for those who have...

(Don't mind my babble...I'm just waiting for Samsung to come along and pick up the pieces!)

aaaronut - Thanks for the response. My Tivo unit is only 11 1/2" deep and allowing 2" for the cord = 14 1/2". Is your receiver HD? Are all HD receivers 15"? Why would you need 4" of space behind your receiver?

MY TV arrived about 3 hours ago. As this is my first DLP, HDTV or even larger than 27inch TV, I will not try and make too many comments

Some quick thoughts and answers to questions:

1) TV Guide setup comes on as soon as you turn the TV on. For me it makes little sense to use as I watch everything through a standalone Tivo, which controls my cable box changing. However i did set it up. The directions say it D/L data when the TV is off...which it hasn't been yet.

2) My setup currently is a SD Digital cable box feeding a standalone SD Tivo. I have a progressive scan DVD but am not using the component connection yet. Clearly this setup will change this week to HD cable (probably non DVR and keep Tivo, although that raises it's own issues)

3) The 50 sits flush...no pedastal or extra feet

4) I am having lots of trouble with the PC setup and will need to read my video card setup. I have an ATI All In Wonder 9600xt that supports two VGA connections. the 1st is going to my 19" LCD monitor at 1280x1024. the second is going to the Samsung and all the various settings are not working. that is to say: i see a picture but it is zoomed, so i only see the middle of the screen

5) I can answer specific questions and try various setups

6) Picture is great especially the DVD. I watched a few minutes of Original SW and LOTR FOTR.

7) Watching the derby now. Pretty green picture at times, but that is primamrily the remote camera shots

8) I currently have it on my Coffee table. Samsung TR46x3 is due to arrive Tuesday. Note: As I said in a previous post, that satnd is only 17.8 inches deep and works with the 46,50 & 56.

Originally posted by richost
[B]MY TV arrived about 3 hours ago. As this is my first DLP, HDTV or even larger than 27inch TV, I will not try and make too many comments

Some quick thoughts and answers to questions:


Do you have a Playstation 2 to try on it?

Take some pictures if you can.

Originally posted by richost
2) My setup currently is a SD Digital cable box feeding a standalone SD Tivo. I have a progressive scan DVD but am not using the component connection yet. Clearly this setup will change this week to HD cable (probably non DVR and keep Tivo, although that raises it's own issues)


If your cable company offers a HD DVR go for it!!! After my first day with my Comcast Motorola 6412 HD DVR ($9.95/mo), I turned off my SD DVRs. It will maximize the investment in digital HD cable and your new HD TV ... not to mention it will make your Tivo seem like an antique.

Originally posted by Daphoid
Oh and for those curious, you lot used 1.8GB of Bandwidth on my server two months ago :)

- D

Hi D ... nice to see you back! Good luck in summer school. Thanks for hosting our HI RESOLUTION Samsung gallery! The 1.8 GB was well used. :)

Originally posted by Ed Weinman
I've been sitting (standing, pacing,....) without my HDTV since 10/04. I had to change my attitude re: being deprived to one of positive anticipation (or else, go nuts!)

I have NO idea if I'll love the 6168w or not. I've always had CRT sets - this will be my first foray into the unknown. I also don't know if I'll be one of the lucky ones to see the dreaded side effects this technology may offer, but...

I've read and partially participated in this discussion since page 1 and have already built the 6168w up in my mind this is THE set...I really hope it is. WOW 10/04 its been 3 weeks since Samsung took my Samsung HLP6163 to TV heaven...refund in pocket is burning a hole in it...this has been the hardest 3 weeks of my life...were is my HLR6168/6768 !!!!

As requested here is a picture

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php?photo=14490&size=big&sort=1&cat=503

I don't own a PS2 or any other console. I play on PC based games (mainly RTS games). Still having PC trouble

The TVGuide does not require a set top box. I have a cable signal going straight to the Tv to test TV Guide...I will update everyone tomorrow on how good the info is

UCSB:

You're quite welcome! If you've got any more pictures I'll gladly add them for you!

Also for those with PC issues - I tend to be quite computer savvy (It's what I'm going to school for, and working on military bases for :D). So I'll have a look for you all when I get mine in.

- D

D, good to see you back on the site. Hang in there, hopefully we only have a few more weeks to wait for the 68s. :D I appreciate you hosting the pictures, I know I took my share of bandwidth. Good luck with school.

Folks: now that we are approaching 1080P release, what are all of you going to do about warranties?

1. What is the warranty for the 68/78 series going to be? I didn't see anything on this thread, but I may have missed it.

2. What are your comments about extend warranties like TVA offers? Does it make sense to just get the 2 year or is it better to get the 4 year.

I am a little concerned with the long term dependability and would like to have my bases covered.

Just one man's concern.

Good Day,

wtr1,

Whatever the warranty for the 68/78 series is, I am going for the longest coverage that is possible. This new set will have to be it for me for quite some time. I do not want to be in the position that I was in when my prior set died. Without extended coverage, the expense for it's repair was too much for me.

I need the security blanket that the extended coverage may provide. (Just one person's opinion.)

More comments

The Good:

I have not seen any rainbow effect at all. However, I didn't see them on the HLN model either at a friends house

I now have the PC display working perfectly at 1280x720. I played a few games OK, although Act Of War did not want to play. i will try additional setting for AOW tomorrow

I do not hear the fan at all

When pressing the source button on the remote, only connected sources are selected. Any source that is not used, is skipped

The Bad:

You can not turn DNIe off. There is a DNIe demo setting, that just splits the picture in half to show you what DNIe does for you. Half the screen has it off and half on with labels on each side. however, this setting is more of a setting to sell the box and has no use at home. They even have a DNIe demo button on the remote, again of no use for home use. These type of things really bug me.

The side inputs do not have a cover on them and are exposed at all times. I think for those who use the side inputs, this is a good thing. For those that don't, a cover would be nice.

The picture size button is not on the main part of the remote, it is behind the little slide cover. I am not sure if I like it here

Yu can not swap PIP directly from the remote, nor can you change the pip size,placement or layout. All these settings have to be done from the menus. You can turn PIP on/off and change chanels of PIP from the remote (channels are changed via the secondary channel buttons under the remote slider)

The Ugly:

Nothing, especially not the picture.

The picture is great, even the SD stuff. I don't have access to HD content yet (Comcast arrives Friday), so I can only expect it to get better. I did have an early problem with my TIVO picture, but that was due to crumby cables. I now have Tivo comming in via the coax antenna in, and even that is great. As for DVDs, even without component cables, the picture is great. I can't wait to get the new cables tomorrow.

Just a thought on DNIe ... is it supported on all inputs? One reason that you may not be able to turn it off is that it may not be operating on that input. Check other inputs (HDMI, component, etc.). Let us know if DNIe is working on all inputs. I seem to recall that DNIe was not available on all inputs in prior model years.

I have started a HLRxx67W owners thread to cover the new 720p sets. It's title is:

Samsung HLRxx67W Owners Thread - 720p DLP HDTV (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=537675)

I noticed that there was another thread with 8 posts called HLR Owner Experiences, but I feel we need to be more specific and discuss 720p and 1080p systems in different threads.

In creating the HLRxx67W Owners Thread, I assumed that the HLRxx87W pedestal owners would continue in the Samsung pedestal owners thread. Is this an OK assumption? I also assumed that new HLRxx77W owners would post in the HLPxx74W thread. Is this an OK assumption? I guess what I'm opening up for discussion is did I set the scope correctly on the new HLRxx67W owners thread? I can tweak the thread if it makes sense to expand the scope.

Originally posted by Daphoid
UCSB:

You're quite welcome! If you've got any more pictures I'll gladly add them for you!

Also for those with PC issues - I tend to be quite computer savvy (It's what I'm going to school for, and working on military bases for :D). So I'll have a look for you all when I get mine in.

- D

D, I don't have any more pictures that add to what we have already put into the HiRes gallery, but I expect some of the new HLRxx67W owners will start producing some really great shots over the next week or so.

With some tweaking I can probably wedge a HLP5674/HLR5677 into my cabinet but not a HLR56x8. I went to the local Costco's yesterday to see if I could be lured into getting one of the firesale 5674's they have. All sold out. One of the Costco's had their demo model left at $200 less than the boxed price. Not going for a demo unit.

So at this point I will definately wait for the 5078's. I don't want to give up all the inputs that the 77 does for a cablecard I will never use. If it turns out that's a bust I will hunt for a 5674, and maybe get it for a real good price or continue the quest for the next better set. My 40in 16x9 set is small but the quality is not bad for DVD's. Going to a 56 720P would give me about the same line/pixel density but with a much larger picture. Hope that the 1080P sets are awesome.

Just dropped by my local PC Richard and they said they will have the set on June 5th. I am also curious about those extended warranties (in particular if they will replace the bulb).

I intend to get my hands on the 6168 and retire my old Toshiba 56HX80. Ever since I saw the HLN series I have been dying to get one.

I have a PS2 and will post a few pics....I also have the Dish Network 921 (HDTV/PVR) along with a LinkPlayer 2 DVD Player. I will post some pics once I got it all hooked up :)

Originally posted by UCSB
I also assumed that new HLRxx77W owners would post in the HLPxx74W thread. Is this an OK assumption? I guess what I'm opening up for discussion is did I set the scope correctly on the new HLRxx67W owners thread? I can tweak the thread if it makes sense to expand the scope. I know the HLRxx77W and HLPxx74W are very similar. However there are a couple of significant differences from the HLPxx74's. The OTA tuner and the cable card capability of the HLR units might make the sets enough different to warrant a separate thread.

Jay

I went in to Magnolia yesterday (San Ramon, CA), and asked if they had expected arrival dates for the 68, 78 and 88 series. He said 88 was to arrive the 15th of this month, and that he was to receive BOTH the 68 and 78 series, but had no ETA at this time. Receiving both came as a surprise, as I understood Magnolia would receive only the 78 series.

I have an older Sony DVP-7000 DVD unit with the switches and as far as a interlaced DVD player, the image is great. The CD audio is also superior. I don't care about DTS since my Denon AVP8000 can't deal with that (would consider swapping it for a Denon AVP8000 DTS if one came up or going the MSB DTS upgrade route later).

I am wondering why I cannot just send the HLR5078W a 480i signal (thats all thats on the disk anyway) and let it do one conversion to 1080P. Wouldn't that be better than trying to do 480P in the player and then convert again to 1080P in the set (2 conversions)? or 1080i (in the DVD player) again converted to 1080P in the set?

Do we expect the converters in the new TV's to be inferior to the DVD players converters?

Also I would prefer not to have to buy a DVD player right now since the two Hidef formats appear to be getting merged and it will be late in 2006 or 2007 before we see any reliable and decently priced players IMHP.

Originally posted by ccouper

I am wondering why I cannot just send the HLR5078W a 480i signal (thats all thats on the disk anyway) and let it do one conversion to 1080P. Wouldn't that be better than trying to do 480P in the player and then convert again to 1080P in the set (2 conversions)? or 1080i (in the DVD player) again converted to 1080P in the set?

Do we expect the converters in the new TV's to be inferior to the DVD players converters?

Also I would prefer not to have to buy a DVD player right now since the two Hidef formats appear to be getting merged and it will be late in 2006 or 2007 before we see any reliable and decently priced players IMHP.

One additional issue is that upscaling fancy DVD players tend to send their signal via a digital connection rather than an analog one ( DVI/HDMI vs. Component / Svideo) While the TV could do a comparable job upscaling the signal (I hope it could do better) it would be playing at a disadvantage to the DVD player if it wasn't getting a digital signal.

I intend to stick with a component DVD player until the whole HD-DVD Blu-Ray fight is over (please let the negotiations avoid a format war) and then choose the winner and get a player with HDMI. That way my DVDs will look better as well as the new fancy high definition content (upgrade in stages so stuff keeps looking better.)

Re: the black framing on the 68's - there were indications previously that the left/right black areas were 1.35" or 2" wide. Can someone verify? (I'm concerned re: the 6168w model which, I understand, is 56.9" wide.)

Thanks.

Originally posted by schaffer970
Your math may be better than mine, but I came up with 24.5 inches from the center of the screen of the 6168 to the bottom of the set. From post #1 - Kirk's measurements overall width is 57 inches and overall height is 41.5 inches. Given that the 61 has a diagonal screen size of 61 inches then the actual dimensions of the screen are 53 inches wide by 30 inches high. Subtract 53 inch screen width from the overall set width of 57 inches leaves 4 inches for the border (2 inches on each side and the top). The bottom of the actual screen is 9.5 inches from the bottom of the set, 41.5 overall height - 30 inches screen height - 2 inches border. Finally mid screen height is 15 inches (1/2 of the 30 inch total screen height) + 9.5 inches base to bottom of screen. QED, I get 24.5 inches.

I came up with 2" top and sides. The above is how I did the calculations. :)

schaffer970,

Thanks.

I have read all about Samsung TVs for the past 7 month's. I had my mind made up to buy an HLP5674 but first had to put in a built-in entertainment center in my family room. Luckily, it has taken me too long and these new sets have come out. However, it has also taken me a few weeks to finally get to the end of this thread! Great words along the way, but I am still pretty uncertain as to which TV to get. Appreciate all the hands on from folks. Great words. Keep it up.

Lurking in FLA

Greetings,
Not sure if you have a Costco nearby, but they now have the 5674 in many locations. Your delay on the entertainment center could have saved you close to a grand if you still want the 5674 and a (somewhat) matching stand.
You might want to fly over to Costco and check it out.
b.

Originally posted by richost
4) I am having lots of trouble with the PC setup and will need to read my video card setup. I have an ATI All In Wonder 9600xt that supports two VGA connections. the 1st is going to my 19" LCD monitor at 1280x1024. the second is going to the Samsung and all the various settings are not working. that is to say: i see a picture but it is zoomed, so i only see the middle of the screen

[/B]

I don't have that TV, but I have run multiple displays on my ATi 9600. You need to configure the displays properly in the Catalyst Control Center. I would suppose that the reason why it is zoomed in is that you are currently at 1280x1024 and you are trying to mirror the displays.

UCSB,

On the last page of TMSKILZ's HES thread, there is a description of the PQ of the 1080p 67" DLP from a Crutchfield representative. I humbly suggest that his very well written impressions on the set be added to the first post (assuming there's room left). I've sent you a copy of his post as well.

Martin (yes, I'm still around ;))

This is my first post, so my apologies if it doesn't work out right. I'm not sure if I'm replying to a previous message or posting a new one. I've been reading this forum diligently (daily) since it was formed (and now 140+ pages later.....). Great thread, and many thanks to UCSB and the many posters who are regulars--very informative and insightful. Anyways, I've been waiting for the Kirk 1080p (HLR5688W), and I just spoke with Vann's who said they have 5 in stock (received 5 in their warehouse last Thursday). A previous post about a week ago stated a replacement Kirk was going out to the customer about Mid-May and another post stated that Magnolia's will get them in on Monday (one week from today). So it looks like 1080p is finally here!! I've been waiting since January (CES) of 2004 for this one, so now I'm getting anxious. So far, the best price I've seen is $4399 (no tax, free shipping). Not too bad, consdiering Samsung just boosted the MSRP to $5199, from $4999. I might wait for a couple comments on it first, before ordering, but if all goes well, I should be receiving it soon.

No apologies necessary. That was a fantastic first post. This is great news overall--it seems we'll all see these new sets in stores soon.

Welcome to the forum!

Originally posted by RJGinCA
This is my first post, so my apologies if it doesn't work out right. I'm not sure if I'm replying to a previous message or posting a new one. I've been reading this forum diligently (daily) since it was formed (and now 140+ pages later.....). Great thread, and many thanks to UCSB and the many posters who are regulars--very informative and insightful. Anyways, I've been waiting for the Kirk 1080p (HLR5688W), and I just spoke with Vann's who said they have 5 in stock (received 5 in their warehouse last Thursday). A previous post about a week ago stated a replacement Kirk was going out to the customer about Mid-May and another post stated that Magnolia's will get them in on Monday (one week from today). So it looks like 1080p is finally here!! I've been waiting since January (CES) of 2004 for this one, so now I'm getting anxious. So far, the best price I've seen is $4399 (no tax, free shipping). Not too bad, consdiering Samsung just boosted the MSRP to $5199, from $4999. I might wait for a couple comments on it first, before ordering, but if all goes well, I should be receiving it soon.

The 88's are out THIS WEEK?! I thought June was the earliest we were going to see any 1080p lovin'. Wow!

I'll be watching this thread with even greater interest since I'm sure I'll see people jump on this ASAP.

When are the 42 and 46 inch 720p TV's going to hit stores like BB, CC and Sears?

Originally posted by SaintsMan
When are the 42 and 46 inch 720p TV's going to hit stores like BB, CC and Sears? There have been reports of stock at some CC warehouses, but you have to ask the droids to check the computer. No stock on the floors yet. Also reports of Sears claiming delivery dates next week.

I saw the HLR 46 at Tweeter on Sunday. It has a black base and the sides have very little around the screen so it looks much smaller than my 50" HLN. The picture was fine and I am considering buying it.

Rich N.

Originally posted by kjongsma
There have been reports of stock at some CC warehouses, but you have to ask the droids to check the computer. No stock on the floors yet. Also reports of Sears claiming delivery dates next week.

WooHoo!!!!!!

Thanks, I'll have to make some calls later today then.:) I'm so excited, I can't wait to get one of these TV's!

CC droids - I like that. However, my droids seem to have had their input channels cut off. Sammy HLR??? haven't heard of that, don't expect anything for a long time. Also watched one doing a comparison between Monster HDMI input and I think component (could have been something even worse). "See all this shimmering in this side and how there is none here - that's why you need this $149 cable". It's scary out there! :D :D

I just realized people don't seem to be migrating to the new HLRxx67 thread. Can you please check out my post there (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5597577#post5597577)? I noticed a grainy/rough screen surface on the new 67 series when I saw one over the weekend, and would like to know if anyone has noticed this, what do you think about it, etc. Thanks and sorry for the "almost" double post! ;-)

Does anyone have any more up-to-date info about the DIMENSIONS of the 7178? (Getting bored here, waiting for them to appear, so am focusing on planning a solution for the stand!)

I'm having a hard time reconsiling the estimates in post 1 (for the 70" set originally expected). E.g., the height (est) of the 70" set is 48.5", while that of the 6178 is only 41.6", ~ 7" less while the screen ht is only 4.4" less; can the border on the larger set really be this much wider? Also, the ht of the Mits 73" 1080p dlp is only 44.8", about 3.7" smaller than that of the 70" Sammy while the screen height itself is ~1.5" larger. The depth of the Mits 73" set is also ~2" less than that estimated for the Sammy 70" set. Maybe the initial ests availalbe to the Sammy's is off?

Originally posted by millerwill
Does anyone have any more up-to-date info about the DIMENSIONS of the 7178? (Getting bored here, waiting for them to appear, so am focusing on planning a solution for the stand!)

I'm having a hard time reconsiling the estimates in post 1 (for the 70" set originally expected). E.g., the height (est) of the 70" set is 48.5", while that of the 6178 is only 41.6", ~ 7" less while the screen ht is only 4.4" less; can the border on the larger set really be this much wider? Also, the ht of the Mits 73" 1080p dlp is only 44.8", about 3.7" smaller than that of the 70" Sammy while the screen height itself is ~1.5" larger. The depth of the Mits 73" set is also ~2" less than that estimated for the Sammy 70" set. Maybe the initial ests availalbe to the Sammy's is off?

Well ... in POST #1 it does say the height is and estimate. Those spec's came from Kirk at TVauthority. Why don't you call TVauthority and see if they have received any new info on the 7178? If you get updated info, please post and I will update POST #1.

Check out this article.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/business/cst-fin-nano09.html

Does anyone know how this might affect the future of DLP?

Originally posted by CGULL999
Check out this article.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/business/cst-fin-nano09.html

Does anyone know how this might affect the future of DLP?

Nice ideas. Vaporware.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Originally posted by UCSB
Well ... in POST #1 it does say the height is and estimate. Those spec's came from Kirk at TVauthority. Why don't you call TVauthority and see if they have received any new info on the 7178? If you get updated info, please post and I will update POST #1.

Good idea! I have emailed Kirk, got a nice reply that they have an inquiry into Samsung about all aspects of the hlr 7178, and he will report as soon as he hears anything.

The carbon nanotube technology is promising on paper. I don't have to tell you that there's a huge difference between creating a 5-inch prototype and a 60-inch production model.

This nanotube technology, Toshiba and Canon's SED, LED backlit LCD, and Samsung's flat CRT are all exciting new technologies in different stages of development. By the time most have made their debuts, we'll probably be in the market for another set anyway.

For me, the most exciting part about this article is the potential to drive down prices of flatscreen technology--but I wonder, if the quality is as good as Motorola would have us believe, why they would limit their profit margin per set? If the new tech could produce a 40" set for $400 dollars that rivals or surpasses a Sharp Aquos 45" that sells for $5200(supposition for argument--they make no such claim), why not sell it for $1500 and have all of the stockbrokers smiling at their year-end dividend statement?

Doesn't it still use phosphors though. Therefore you still have the burn in problem.

QUOTE Originally posted by Bob4action
Greetings,
Not sure if you have a Costco nearby, but they now have the 5674 in many locations. Your delay on the entertainment center could have saved you close to a grand if you still want the 5674 and a (somewhat) matching stand.
You might want to fly over to Costco and check it out.

Bob,
I am going to be in the DFW area at the endo of the month. We don't have any in my neck of the woods in NW Florida, but I will check there. I think I can do without the Tuner and press ahead with the 5674. It is either that or roll with a 5677 or 5668. Those are my options. In a hurry but not really.

Greetings,
"In a hurry but not really"
I understand perfectly. That's how I lingered around this forum for over 18 months without ever buying anything. Until last weekend. And I'm still lingering. I need to get out more often. Even if Costco sells through their 5674's, I'm sure at the rate the models are changing they will eventually get something else.
b.

Speaking of buying...anyone know any stores around Seattle that have a HLR5067W in stock?

I would buy online if anyone can recommend a good out of state store to purchase from. The powerbuy doesn't look like that great of a deal to me since I am in one of the states that would be charged tax.

Help....this money is burning a hole in my pocket! :D

Hello snowdogging. TV Authority is offering the free gift to WA and CA customers at this time. I know that doesn’t make up for the tax but it can help compensate. Plus you can receive a rebate at a later date.

That new technology from Motorola seems fairly impressive. Maybe they will have a sample or two to view at the next CES. Very interesting find!

Saw the latest HLR5067 (the shape and model looks good and it also has space on both sides to hold atleast 3 remotes/side) and HLP5063 side by side
recently and watched discover HD channel and here are my observations on
picture quality. YMMV.

1.The colors on HLR5067 look little more vivid when compared to HLP set.
Pictures on both HLR and HLP looked almost same except for a little better colors and smaller or no detail differences.

2.Brightness and contrast - I did'nt find much differences when viewing
the scenes and playing with both the sets with a single remote control.



Other differences:

1. Now there is no way in menu to trun off DNIe. Personally I like DNIe
so I am fine with it. Not sure why they kept the DNIe demo button in the
menu.

2. Also now there is a new custom mode apart from Standard,
Movie(Cinema in 4677/4663), Enhanced(or whatever is the first mode
called as). A new TV guide button on remote. Does the TV guide get the
menu even when we use only off-air antenna or is it manily used
for the settop bxes or cablecard?

PQ wise I did'nt see much differences apart from the above on a HD source
via compnent. May be since I did'nt have a SD feed there in the store.
I do not know how much better SD will look on the new set.

You aren't allowed to complain about taxes, at all. Why? Because at most you guys pay what, 7%? I pay 15% taxes...

That's right. So if the HLR6168 is say $4500 USD...

$4500 USD = $5565.59 * 1.15 = $6400.43

That's just under a grand in taxes.

;_;

- D

Originally posted by Daphoid
That's just under a grand in taxes.

;_;

- D

Ouch ... maybe you should drive down south of the border and pick one up.

^this has to be one of the top reasons for me to buy at TVA. I get free shipping and no taxes. Even if I save $100 bucks, I'll take it if both companies are equal. The other place I would probably buy a DLP tv is at Tweeter. Unfortunately they didn't want to bend on their price. Of course I only asked for about 5 minutes and I'm sure I could get them to match the price.

Originally posted by TetsujinWave
UCSB,

On the last page of TMSKILZ's HES thread, there is a description of the PQ of the 1080p 67" DLP from a Crutchfield representative. I humbly suggest that his very well written impressions on the set be added to the first post (assuming there's room left). I've sent you a copy of his post as well.

Martin (yes, I'm still around ;))

Can you post the link? Thanks.


-JDBull (long time lurker, only a few times poster)

Here's the post from Skindig:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=5578883#post5578883

Originally posted by Daphoid
You aren't allowed to complain about taxes, at all. Why? Because at most you guys pay what, 7%? I pay 15% taxes...
;_;
- D

Yeah, but D, look at all that money you're saving by not have to pay for medical insurance :)

Well, I finally got the chance to see the new hlrxx67 model in person and was able to compare the hlrxx67 with other samsung dlp sets. I spent about an hour at Magnolia Hifi comparing the samsung hlr5067, hlp5663, and hlp5674. The comparisons were made with the tvs set at their default standard/normal video settings with color temperature set to normal (the hlr5067 defaulted to warm1, but I changed it to normal to match the other sets). It's very possible that Samsung's default settings differ for each of these sets but I didn't have the time or patience to customize the settings on each of the sets. In any case, all 3 sets provided a nice picture, but there were fairly clear differences when comparing the different models side by side.

I would have to say that of the 3 sets, I was actually most impressed with
the hlr5067 which was a bit surprising. I expected the HD2+ in the hlp5674 to provide an edge over the hlr5067 and the hlp5663. I also expected that the hlr5067 and the hlp5663 would have a similar picture. Both expectations turned out to be a bit off. Now again, this might all be due to the different default settings on these sets, but it seemed to me that the hlr5067 offered the most vibrant and rich colors, with a picture that appeared more 3-dimensional than the other sets.

The difference was particularly noticeable between the hlr5067 and the hlp5663, which were set up very close together in the store (separated by the panny 50" dlp). The hlp5663 had a bit of a washed out picture (perhaps brightness is set too high at the default settings?) with what I would describe as a fairly flat picture with flat colors. It was a bit more difficult to compare the hlp5674 and hlr5067 as they were separated by about 7 or 8 other sets in the store. I had to step back a bit to compare these two sets, but even at a fair distance, the hlr5067 seemed to have colors that were more rich and vibrant, with a "deeper" looking picture than the hlp5674, which also tended to appear a little flat (but better than the hlp5663).

I know the HD2+ is supposed to provide a sharper picture, and maybe the hlp5674 provides a sharper picture than the hlr5067, but I honestly couldn't really tell, except that I did note that the on-screen menus on the hlr5067 were significantly more soft/blurry in comparison to both the hlp5663 and the hlp5674 on-screen menus. It may just be that the on-screen menus on the hlr5067 are displayed at a lower resolution, because I didn't notice the same softness/bluriness in the actual picture comparisons. Maybe there would be a more noticeable difference when comparing tvs with the same screen size (e.g., hlr5667 versus hlp5674).

Again, all of the above observations were based on how the tvs were set up at my local Magnolia Hifi (standard/normal default settings), and it could be that others would experience different results with a different setup.

Anyways, take all of the above observations as just one person's subjective views. If you have any interest in the new Samsung hlr models, you'll definitely want to compare the sets yourself in person.

The Panny 50" dlp's colors just didn't seem right in comparison with the hlr5067, but that could very well be due to improper settings on the panny. I didn't try adjusting the panny's settings since I wasn't looking at that model. The same could be said about the Mitsubishi 52327 which was on the other side of the hlr5067. The hlr5067's colors were simply more rich and vibrant, with a more pleasing picture (even the wife agreed). But again, maybe the Mitsubishi and the Panny were set up incorrectly (the Mitsubishi was displaying too much green, for example).

Originally posted by aircasper


I know the HD2+ is supposed to provide a sharper picture, and maybe the hlp5674 provides a sharper picture than the hlr5067, but I honestly couldn't really tell, except that I did note that the on-screen menus on the hlr5067 were significantly more soft/blurry in comparison to both the hlp5663 and the hlp5674 on-screen menus. It may just be that the on-screen menus on the hlr5067 are displayed at a lower resolution, because I didn't notice the same softness/bluriness in the actual picture comparisons. Maybe there would be a more noticeable difference when comparing tvs with the same screen size (e.g., hlr5667 versus hlp5674).



I wonder if DNIE is used on the menus? This could explain the difference, but seems that it would be true or untrue for all models.

Thanks for the review.

Also--It sounds as if you noticed an improvement in picture depth due to the higher contrast ratio. I was hoping it would be a noticeable improvement. Im my opinion, CR rules when other stuff is nearly equal.

I have an HLR5067 on order.

Originally posted by DanPackMan
I wonder if DNIE is used on the menus? This could explain the difference, but seems that it would be true or untrue for all models.

Thanks for the review.

Also--It sounds as if you noticed an improvement in picture depth due to the higher contrast ratio. I was hoping it would be a noticeable improvement. Im my opinion, CR rules when other stuff is nearly equal.

I have an HLR5067 on order.


Given the somewhat significant disparity in the sharpness of the menu, I'd be surprised if DNIE was the sole reason for the difference between the hlr5067 and the hlp5663/hlp5674. if you look at the onscreen menu for the hlp5663, the top menu row (i think it says picture controls or something like that when you're adjusting the picture settings) has very sharp text, while the icons going down the left most column are a bit blurry, perhaps because they're displayed at a lower resolution. in comparison, the whole on-screen menu is a bit blurry on the hlr5067 with what looks like ghosting, etc. again, i noticed this only with the on-screen menus, not the actual picture on the hlr5067 (including any text that may have been displayed in the signal feed), which makes me believe the on-screen menus on the new hlrxx67 are displayed at a lower resolution relative to the hlpxx63, but that's just a guess.

the whole on-screen menu is a bit blurry on the hlr5067 with what looks like ghosting, etc. again

I have the HLR6167w and I think the on screen menu looks fantastic. I even got comments from friends on how sharp the menu is.

Originally posted by cjlawson
I have the HLR6167w and I think the on screen menu looks fantastic. I even got comments from friends on how sharp the menu is.

wow, that's weird. don't know if you have the set in front of you, but would you say that the top menu bar (the first row of the menu) is sharp? i was focusing on the top row of the onscreen menu and the icons on the left side column, which were all a bit blurry on the hlr5067 that i saw last night. the other menu items might have been sharper. it could be that rather than displaying text, the hlrxx67 displays an image (a relatively low resolution at that) for the top menu bar (and left side icons), whereas the other items are displayed as text which comes out sharp.

Someone please HELP ME!

I have read thru most of this thread, and still have questions. Like others, I am limited to a 46" set. I have narrowed down between the HLR 4667, and the HLR 4677. I thought I had made my decision on the 4667 until I went to Tweeter today.

Tweeter had the 4677 on display..very nice picture. I asked about the 4667 and they actually argued that there was no such thing. I told them to look at the Samsung website and the did this in front of me...and there it was. I told them about the HD4 chip, and the Sammy site did not list, so they called their Sammy rep as I stood there.

The rep told the Tweeter guy that the 4667 has a HD3 chip, which is not as good as the HD2+ in the 4677. He also said Tweeter is not carrying the 4667 as it is considered a lower end unit that will be carried by the big box stores like BB.

I have seen conflicting info all over the net on the actual chip in the 4667. The fact that BB is carrying and not Tweeter, and the fact that the cost is less...is this correct?

Yikes, so much work to pick out a TV.

Last question...i have read on this thread that the 4677 is being made in limited quanity as newer Tv's are coming later this summer. Do the newer models come in 46", or are the new models starting at 50" and above.

I don't mind waiting a few months, but don't want to find that there is no good 46" out there in the Sammy line.

Any comments are appreciated...thanks for this thread!

HLR5067 is the the newest model in that bunch (god it's hard keeping them all straight)... so I'm not surprised it had the nicest picture. </zealot>

Good info!

*looks forward to his 68 series*

- D

The chip in the HLR-xx67x does not have a specific name. Ti stopped using the name scheme. I have the HLR-6167x and love it. I like it better then any of the other Samsung DLPs out there. It is the latest and greatest technology.

Originally posted by pismobeach
Someone please HELP ME!

I have read thru most of this thread, and still have questions. Like others, I am limited to a 46" set. I have narrowed down between the HLR 4667, and the HLR 4677. I thought I had made my decision on the 4667 until I went to Tweeter today.

Tweeter had the 4677 on display..very nice picture. I asked about the 4667 and they actually argued that there was no such thing. I told them to look at the Samsung website and the did this in front of me...and there it was. I told them about the HD4 chip, and the Sammy site did not list, so they called their Sammy rep as I stood there.

The rep told the Tweeter guy that the 4667 has a HD3 chip, which is not as good as the HD2+ in the 4677. He also said Tweeter is not carrying the 4667 as it is considered a lower end unit that will be carried by the big box stores like BB.

I have seen conflicting info all over the net on the actual chip in the 4667. The fact that BB is carrying and not Tweeter, and the fact that the cost is less...is this correct?

Yikes, so much work to pick out a TV.

Last question...i have read on this thread that the 4677 is being made in limited quanity as newer Tv's are coming later this summer. Do the newer models come in 46", or are the new models starting at 50" and above.

I don't mind waiting a few months, but don't want to find that there is no good 46" out there in the Sammy line.

Any comments are appreciated...thanks for this thread!

At 46" you have five choices:

1. HLR4667W ... this is the new model, there will not be any newer models being released this year.

2. HLR4677W ... same as HLP4674W but with integrated tuners and DVI/VGA dropped
3. HLP4674W ... last years thin bezel HD2+ chip

4. HLP4667W ... this is last years HLP4663W with integrated tuners and DVI/VGA inputs dropped
5. HLP4663W ... this is last years model with HD3, still being sold

Be careful not to confuse HLR4667W and HLP4667W. The information in POST#1 of this thread is reliable, count on it. The HD4 designation that is shown in POST #1 is being used because TI and Samsung are not releasing new chip names, but rather generic descriptions. Don't expect mfg reps or sales people to use HD4. I was using to indicate that the chip was the next generation after HD3.

Thanks for your reply UCSB. No, I did not mix up the HLP's and HLR's. We were speaking only of the HLR's.

They had the HLR 4677 on display, and our disagreement was about the HLR 4667. They called the Sammy rep and he said the HLR 4677 had a HD3, and that Tweeter wasn ot carrying this model.

I just want the latest chip in the 46" set.

Originally posted by pismobeach
Thanks for your reply UCSB. No, I did not mix up the HLP's and HLR's. We were speaking only of the HLR's.

They had the HLR 4677 on display, and our disagreement was about the HLR 4667. They called the Sammy rep and he said the HLR 4677 had a HD3, and that Tweeter wasn ot carrying this model.

I just want the latest chip in the 46" set.

Then you need the HLR 4667. Period.

i read somewhere on this thread 4667 was HD3 and not HD2+. Is it really HD2+? In which case I'm pickin it up!

Originally posted by realtanu
i read somewhere on this thread 4667 was HD3 and not HD2+. Is it really HD2+? In which case I'm pickin it up!

No. It is an improved version of the HD3, which has been unofficially called the HD4, but that language is not being used now by Samsung and TI.

Originally posted by realtanu
i read somewhere on this thread 4667 was HD3 and not HD2+. Is it really HD2+? In which case I'm pickin it up!

As mentioned repeatedly in this thread, all of this info is in UCSB's incredibly well-organized rundown in the 1st post of the thread.

Originally posted by millerwill
No. It is an improved version of the HD3, which has been unofficially called the HD4, but that language is not being used now by Samsung and TI.

As UCSB said, be careful about the model name/numbers. There is an HLP 4667 (last year's HD3 chipset with ATSC tuner etc) and there is an HLR 4667 (updated HD3 chip which I guess we are calling HD4).

I think Samsung must be thinking about retiring HLPs altogether pretty soon. This confusion cannot be allowed to last for too long - from a product marketing perspective.

saw first post that said xx67 had HD4.. but series of subsequent threads confused me. Will Sammy confirm they are using HD4 if I call them up?

Sorry for following question.. but how does HD4 compare to HD2+? Won't have a chance to look at TVs prior to purchasing... I like HD2+.. don't like HD3 as much... is HD4 still an economy chip or is this a thoroughbred?

thanks guys..

Originally posted by realtanu
saw first post that said xx67 had HD4.. but series of subsequent threads confused me. Will Sammy confirm they are using HD4 if I call them up? No, they won't know what you are talking about.

Originally posted by realtanu
Sorry for following question.. but how does HD4 compare to HD2+? Won't have a chance to look at TVs prior to purchasing... I like HD2+.. don't like HD3 as much... is HD4 still an economy chip or is this a thoroughbred?

It sounds like you are making at least two classic mistakes:

Relying on someone else's opinion for what needs to be a personal decision - ie "How does it look to you."

Basing your purchase decision on what is essentially a marketing term (ie "HDx") and not the picture quality that you see.

If you plan on buying sight unseen, how do you know you like the models that use the HD2+ chipset and don't like the HD3? What are you basing that decision on? If its comments posted on this forum, you need to understand that a lot of peple here enjoy splitting hairs and arguing nuances that most people won't see or care about.

For the first time since I've decided on the HL-R6168W, I'm having doubts. Based on post 1, the MSRP for this model is $1K more than the HL-R6167W. So for the 68W I'll have 2 HDMI inputs vs 1 HDMI input. I'll have 10,000:1 CR vs up to 2,500:1 CR ('up to' - does this mean it could be less?), and 1080P vs 720P. Difference in the CR and resolution can't be properly compared without a side-by-side. But I could get my HD fix NOW with the 67, and save approx $1K!! I'm no longer certain the 68 is the clear-cut answer here. But if I wait, perhaps in 2-3 years, if 1080p source material is available, I'll be glad I had a bit more patience. What do others think that are waiting for the 68's?

I own a HD2+ and have seen HD3s. If HD4 is considered an absolute improvement over HD2+ (for which I think a strong majority agree is better than HD3) then I woudl feel comfortable pulling trigger. If there is a wavering on the HD4 then my decisoin does become tough baed on what you said and I would likely have to hold off...

Originally posted by Ronnie 1.8
For the first time since I've decided on the HL-R6168W, I'm having doubts. Based on post 1, the MSRP for this model is $1K more than the HL-R6167W. So for the 68W I'll have 2 HDMI inputs vs 1 HDMI input. I'll have 10,000:1 CR vs up to 2,500:1 CR ('up to' - does this mean it could be less?), and 1080P vs 720P. Difference in the CR and resolution can't be properly compared without a side-by-side. But I could get my HD fix NOW with the 67, and save approx $1K!! I'm no longer certain the 68 is the clear-cut answer here. But if I wait, perhaps in 2-3 years, if 1080p source material is available, I'll be glad I had a bit more patience. What do others think that are waiting for the 68's?

I think most people waiting on the HLR xx68/xx78 series are expecting PQ to be *signigicantly* better than the HLR xx67 series RIGHT NOW with the existing HD (and perhaps even SD) content and DVD content. I for one am not thinking about 1080P native content that may be available a few years down the road.

So, I am going to wait till these bad boys show up in showrooms and will make up my mind on PQ differences when I have a chance to look at both of them side by side.

Originally posted by wish_i_had_hdtv
I think most people waiting on the HLR xx68/xx78 series are expecting PQ to be *significantly* better than the HLR xx67 series RIGHT NOW with the existing HD (and perhaps even SD) content and DVD content. I for one am not thinking about 1080P native content that may be available a few years down the road.
Yeah, that's what I've picked up over the length of this thread. I do want to wait for the 68, and perhaps what I'm looking for is confirmation/support this is the best choice for me. To most pundits of Imaging Science, the keys to a display monitor's image are, in rough order of importance, contrast ratio, color saturation, color accuracy and display resolution. I'm hoping the 10,000:1 CR really proves key to this display!!

Originally posted by Ronnie 1.8
Yeah, that's what I've picked up over the length of this thread. I do want to wait for the 68, and perhaps what I'm looking for is confirmation/support this is the best choice for me. To most pundits of Imaging Science, the keys to a display monitor's image are, in rough order of importance, contrast ratio, color saturation, color accuracy and display resolution. I'm hoping the 10,000:1 CR really proves key to this display!!

I still can't believe it. Is that 10,000:1 CR REALLY confirmed?

Well, rather than debate the chip that is in the HLR 4667, I simply called the Samsung 800 number. I was told that the HLR 4667 has the HD2+ chip. I was told the major difference between the 4667 and 4677, was that the 4667 has the higher contrast ratio of 2500:1, the 7 color larger wheel, and the new floating screen design.

I do realize that many have done extensive research in setting up this page, but I think we are at the mercy of Samsung when it comes to the final info.

Now, I just need to find a place that has the HLR 4667 to view. I went to my local Best Buy and they had 1 in stock. I was told I could not see it as they would not open the box. They said they would not display until the clearance Samsung's were gone. They told me I should buy it and then return within 30 days if I did not like it...no thanks.

I went to a local store named Queen City TV. They had some in the main warehouse, and the salesman said he would make it worth my while if I would wait for him to get one to his store...he will call me in a few days.

If it looks good, I will be buying the HLR4667...and will certainly report back to the board.

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
I still can't believe it. Is that 10,000:1 CR REALLY confirmed?
I have doubts, too. This 10,000:1 CR is the primary reason I'm waiting for the 6168 over the 6167.

I think most people waiting on the HLR xx68/xx78 series are expecting PQ to be *signigicantly* better than the HLR xx67 series RIGHT NOW with the existing HD (and perhaps even SD) content and DVD content. I for one am not thinking about 1080P native content that may be available a few years down the road.

So, I am going to wait till these bad boys show up in showrooms and will make up my mind on PQ differences when I have a chance to look at both of them side by side.

Thats about right. I currently don't own a hdtv. So it'll be my first and last for at least 10 years if I can make it last that long. Therefore I'm willing to wait to get what I want and to see if thats what I want. The current tv season is winding down so really my only requirement is to get it before the new fall tv season starts up. I am confident that I will be able to get a 6168 model by Aug/Sept time frame.

What chip is being referred to as the DC3 or Dark Chip 3 chipset? What samsung sets feature this chip (it's a 720p implementation). What other names are the 1080p chipset known as (DC4 perhaps?).

OK, they really did not give UCSB the first 1080P off the production line, BUT THEY SHOULD. With the job this guy has done on this forum, helping educate all of us on the latest Sumsung units, he DESERVES something from these guys. Who could be a better salesman than UCSB. Due to his thread, I will be buying a 1080P unit, hopefully in June/July.

So UCSB, if there is no free TV, at least you have our undying gratitude for your efforts.

The 4667 does NOT have the HD2+ chip.

The 4677 has the HD2+ vs the 4667's having a chip that is a "minor?" upgrade off of last year's HD3.

According to all advance info, the 4677 is an upgraded 4674, while the 4667 is an upgraded 4663. The 4674 was noticably sharper than the 4663, while the 4663 has less visible pixel structure. Everyone expects the same to be true for the 4677 vs the 4667.

Originally posted by MikeAlletto
I am confident that I will be able to get a 6168 model by Aug/Sept time frame. I would believe you should be able to get your hands on one in the July timeframe per post #1.

Originally posted by wish_i_had_hdtv
I think most people waiting on the HLR xx68/xx78 series are expecting PQ to be *signigicantly* better than the HLR xx67 series RIGHT NOW with the existing HD (and perhaps even SD) content and DVD content. I for one am not thinking about 1080P native content that may be available a few years down the road.

So, I am going to wait till these bad boys show up in showrooms and will make up my mind on PQ differences when I have a chance to look at both of them side by side.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something - why do people keep saying they're not sure a 1080p TV is worth it since there's no 1080p content..

1080i is (effectively) 1080p content. To go from 1080i (most common format) to 720p, you have to deinterlace _and_ scale. To go from 1080i to 1080p, you only deinterlace.

So there is 1080 material, whether it's 1080i or 1080p is (mostly) irrelevent.

Originally posted by Gator1
So UCSB, if there is no free TV, at least you have our undying gratitude for your efforts.

Thanks!

Originally posted by jvrobert
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something - why do people keep saying they're not sure a 1080p TV is worth it since there's no 1080p content..

viewing distance is important in this regard. IIRC, if your tv is small (<60") or you sit too far away (more than 2x diagonal) average visual acuity says that you won't really notice much difference. in theory, mind you.

I note that samsung isn't pushing a 1080P 46" tv, for instance. At least not right away.


Now, the conjectures are that the newer chips -will- provide a better experience even if you're not in the theoretical range. That part becomes more and more subjective, I guess.

Is it worth the $1000 premium? maybe.
A lot also depends on your buying habits.
Me, i'm secretly planning to move my soon-to-be-had HLR5667 to the master bedroom in 2 years, when the 1080P stuff settles down into their 3rd or 4th generation, and comes down in price.

Originally posted by pismobeach
Well, rather than debate the chip that is in the HLR 4667, I simply called the Samsung 800 number. I was told that the HLR 4667 has the HD2+ chip. I was told the major difference between the 4667 and 4677, was that the 4667 has the higher contrast ratio of 2500:1, the 7 color larger wheel, and the new floating screen design.

I do realize that many have done extensive research in setting up this page, but I think we are at the mercy of Samsung when it comes to the final info.


While it is true we are at the mercy of Samsung (or TI) for technical information like this, we -are not- at the mercy of the people answering the phones at the other end of 1 800 SAMSUNG (or whatever the number is).

The point being that most of technical information (especially in regards to chip specification... contrast ratio of 1080p sets notwithstanding) found here, about the current and past Samsung sets can be regarded as fact.

It is much more plausible that the person you spoke with at Samsung is not nearly as well informed as the sagacious oracles of technology which are found here.

Originally posted by jvrobert
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something - why do people keep saying they're not sure a 1080p TV is worth it since there's no 1080p content..

1080i is (effectively) 1080p content. To go from 1080i (most common format) to 720p, you have to deinterlace _and_ scale. To go from 1080i to 1080p, you only deinterlace.

So there is 1080 material, whether it's 1080i or 1080p is (mostly) irrelevent.

While that's true, I heard that these new TVs cannot accept a 1080p input. If this is true, I have a hard time understanding the excitement over these 1st gen 1080p sets. It would seem more logical to wait for a set that can actually receive and display a 1080p signal. Deinterlacing 1080i content to get 1080p doesn't seem worth it for the price of these sets.

I will probably wait a couple of years until the technology matures and there is more 1080p content available. Until then, I will be quite happy with my 720p DLP.

Originally posted by Ronnie 1.8
I would believe you should be able to get your hands on one in the July timeframe per post #1.

Yeah, thats what I mean...sorta. I mean if I had to wait till aug/sept I would. July would be great but it doesn't matter much to me as long as I get it by the fall tv season.

Originally posted by vpn75
While that's true, I heard that these new TVs cannot accept a 1080p input. If this is true, I have a hard time understanding the excitement over these 1st gen 1080p sets. It would seem more logical to wait for a set that can actually receive and display a 1080p signal. Deinterlacing 1080i content to get 1080p doesn't seem worth it for the price of these sets.

Well, we won't have to speculate much longer. When the xx68 and xx78 1080p sets arrive, we can compare them directly to the new 720p hlr xx67's and SEE if indeed they look better (or not) with the 1080i signals that are presently available. My guess is--based on the reports I've heard so far--that they will look much better (if you sit close enough, e.g., closer than 2 x diagonal), but I readily admit that this is just my guess.

Originally posted by Tom_Bombadil
The 4667 does NOT have the HD2+ chip.

The 4677 has the HD2+ vs the 4667's having a chip that is a "minor?" upgrade off of last year's HD3.

According to all advance info, the 4677 is an upgraded 4674, while the 4667 is an upgraded 4663. The 4674 was noticably sharper than the 4663, while the 4663 has less visible pixel structure. Everyone expects the same to be true for the 4677 vs the 4667.

I'm not sure the same is necessarily true. Or at least I had the impression that the 4667 should be an improvement over the 4663 while the 4677 is the same old 4674 but with a cable card and an internal tuner. PQ wise only the 4667 is an upgrade. Unless I remember wrong

pismobeach:

These threads can be so informative about which set has what, but can also confuse the hell out of a person -- to the point of not purchasing a unit! Well I like others on this board, I would like to have the very best and new technology that's out there, but at what premium?

I got the go ahead (from my warden-- I mean wife) to purchase a set about a week ago, and after about 1 1/2 to 2yrs of drooling. I purchased the HLR 5067W with confidence knowing that I had made a great decision that I will be more than happy with for along time.

By the way, I was told by a Samsung Rep on site that, the HLR had an HD2+ chip in the units also. But was later told by a knowledgeable source that it was the new technology by TI and Samsung that was being offered. All that I could say is that the picture right out of the box was stunning, and I can't wait to get mine!

These threads can be so informative about which set has what, but can also confuse the hell out of a person -- to the point of not purchasing a unit! Well I like others on this board, I would like to have the very best and new technology that's out there, but at what premium?

Dave,

I must say I only stumbled upon this board a week ago. I am sure the regulars know ho knows what, but I have not been around long enough to have realized that these folks really know their stuff.

I can't wait to see the HLR 4667 in action this weekend. If all goes well, I will make the purchase.

Good luck with your set as well.

Originally posted by AkaStp
aircasper, thanks for the info.
Out of interest, how did the HLR5067 compare against the Panny 50" DLP that you mentioned was next to it?

I was wondering the same thing as I currently have the Panny 50" DLP but just ordered the HLR5067. I'll be sure to share my impressions in a side-to-side when the 5067 comes in...hopefully early next week. :)

I can tell you that the Panny doesn't look right out of the box, you have to adjust the default settings to get the colors/brightness/etc looking right. Oh, and then there is the Vivid mode, don't care for that at all. Keep in mind this is only my opinion and as always, YMMV.

Originally posted by AkaStp
Hey folks, instead of naming HD3-successor as "HD4" perhaps we should have named it HD3+ ;)

Mean, just plain mean! :D :D :D

Yes, I agree that the "upgrade" to the 4674 is a cable card and tuner. To me that is an upgrade.

The upgrades in the 4667 are more substantial. I'm anxious to see if the picture is better because the x63 series was a disappointment to my eyes.

Maybe this has already been posted but does anyone know what all the contrast ratios are for all of TI's chips? I know HD2+ isn't bad and that the 1080p sets will have great contrast ratio--I guess what I'm really asking is is there any contrast ratios between the HD2+ and the 1080p sets. If there isn't then I would recommend that people who VALUE contrast ratio buy either a HD2+ or one of the 1080p sets.

Based on published data from Samsung

HLPxx63 1500 HD3
HLPxx74 2000 HD2+
HLPxx85 2500 HD2+ better light engine

HLRxx66/67 up to 2500 HD4
HLRxx77 2000 HD2+
HLRxx87 no info yet ???

HLRxx68/78 up to 10000 xHD4

The usual disclaimers!

Originally posted by Artwood
Maybe this has already been posted but does anyone know what all the contrast ratios are for all of TI's chips? I know HD2+ isn't bad and that the 1080p sets will have great contrast ratio--I guess what I'm really asking is is there any contrast ratios between the HD2+ and the 1080p sets. If there isn't then I would recommend that people who VALUE contrast ratio buy either a HD2+ or one of the 1080p sets. I'm not sure that recommendation holds. You are making the incorrect assumption that the chip is the determining factor in a set's contrast ratio. It isn't.

This link refers to a DLP projector, but the explanation holds for RP.

Contrast Ratio (http://www.projectorcentral.com/nec_ht1000_2.htm)

Note that the contrast ratio can be improved 50% by factors other than the DLP chip. Since noone knows the set specs for the unreleased models...

Originally posted by schaffer970
Based on published data from Samsung

HLPxx63 1500 HD3
HLPxx74 2000 HD2+
HLPxx85 2500 HD2+ better light engine

HLRxx66/67 up to 2500 HD4
HLRxx77 2000 HD2+
HLRxx87 no info yet ???

HLRxx68/78 up to 10000 xHD4

The usual disclaimers! This is the first I've seen the 'up to' 10,000:1 contrast ratio. Perhaps post #1 should be updated with the 'up to' disclaimer, as that is potentially much different than '10,000:1". When I read what the CR is for a given set, is it a given that that is a claimed figure, and not actually measured? As in a certain automobile manufacturer claims a certain model puts out 200 hp, but it may be measured at 192 hp. I'm wondering if reviewers employed by say, Widescreen Review, actually measure CR in their reviews? I'll have to browse through a couple issues and see if that is so. It will be interesting to see what the measured CR is for the HLRxx68's/78's - if the CR is measured.

Well, just to update, and stick my tail between my legs, I did dig deeper on the internet to find a place that would actually name the chip in the HLR4667. I did not do this because I did not believe any of you (as I have total confidence in all of your collective knowlege..and appreciate it!), but did it to prove to myself what I was buying.

The chip is Cinema Smoothâ„¢ Gen-5 720p Light Engine, which is referred to on this board as HD4. It might be less confusing to refer to it as Gen 5, but it's just a play on words I guess.

Well, I am set on the HLR 4667, and should be able to view it this weekend at a local TV store that will call me when they have the set up and running.

Thanks for all the info here as it has really helped me make my decision. I am sure I'll bug the crud out of you folks once I take delivery as I can be a bit technologically challenged at times...but I do have a green thumb and the best yard in my neighborhood (did not want you all to think I was totally useless ) :)

I guess the 1080P will be the Cinema Smooth, Gen-6 1080P Light engine?Since it's supposed to be using a generation 6 light engine.

Just finished setting up my HLR4667 - I wanted to connect the audio out to my older Yamaha (no digital inputs) pro logic reciever, but I discovered that the audio out only works with RF or composite inputs!

My question is, if I get a newer receiver with optical digital inputs, will the optical audio out from the tv be live for ALL sources? (digital and analog)

Originally posted by pismobeach
The chip is Cinema Smooth, Gen-5 720p Light Engine, which is referred to on this board as HD4. It might be less confusing to refer to it as Gen 5, but it's just a play on words I guess.

Just so you completely understand what is going on. The Cinema Smooth, Gen-5 720 Light Engine encompasses much more than just the TI chip. TI supplies the DMD (digital micro-mirror device) which is the chip that has the mirrors on it which reflect the light in the correct patterns. The nomenclature that TI is currently using is a diagonal measurement followed by the vertical resolution. Thus in the HLRxx67 a .55" 720P chip is used (in the literature from Samsung they are using .55" DMD). This is what in this thread, we have been calling the HD4 (following the old TI nomenclature).

As far as the light engine goes, it includes the light source, the color wheel, a whole bunch of optics and the actual DMD chip. The quality and intensity of the bulb, the quality of the optics and the type and arrangement of the color wheel all affect what you see on the screen. In addition all of these things affect the CR.

I hope this makes things a bit clearer for you. :)

PS, for anyone who might be wondering, it is likely that the chip we have been calling the xHD4, will be called .85" 1080P.

Though not said directly in Schaffer970's response, it's important to realize that no other manufacturer will call the same TI chip the "The Cinema Smooth, Gen-5 720 Light Engine." This is Samsung's exclusive nomenclature. Not every manufacturer is up to their Gen 5 light engine

Originally posted by donb1948
Though not said directly in Schaffer970's response, it's important to realize that no other manufacturer will call the same TI chip the "The Cinema Smooth, Gen-5 720 Light Engine." This is Samsung's exclusive nomenclature. Not every manufacturer is up to their Gen 5 light engine

From an article I just read, "Cinema Smooth" is TI's nomenclature...you are probably right about the Gen-5... aspect.

Long-time reader, semi-frequent poster, and HDTV noob here...

Do OTA HDTV broadcasts have 5.1 sound? If so, how do I pipe this to my audio receiver's toslink or rf coax input? The HLR sets have a digital output, but does it output 5.1 received and decoded from the external antenna input? The manual doesn't say. I'd previuosly assumed the digital out was just passing 5.1 that had been input through the hdmi port.

Originally posted by DLPDAVE

I got the go ahead (from my warden-- I mean wife) to purchase a set about a week ago, and after about 1 1/2 to 2yrs of drooling. I purchased the HLR 5067W with confidence knowing that I had made a great decision that I will be more than happy with for along time.


Dlpdave,

When you take ownership of this TV, can you drop a post in the HLRxx67 owner's thread and post your impressions. We'd all really appreciate it :)

Originally posted by AkaStp
Are you returning the Panny 50" DLP (if so, why?) or supplementing it with the HLR5067?
I'm not sure yet which one I'm keeping and which one I'm sending back, but I suspect it'll be the 5067 that stays and the Panny which goes.

In my opinion my Panny looks great and overall I am very happy with the PQ; the problem is I am having a keystone problem in 4:3 mode, the top of the picture is 31.5" wide, the bottom is 32" wide, and the whole thing is slightly off-center. I called Panasonic and they said is was an internal mechanical adjustment, but when the service tech came out and saw it he said the Panny rep must have misunderstood me and thought I was talking about tilt, because there apparently is no mechanical adjustment for keystone. His diagnosis was a bad DMD, requiring replacement and approx 8 days shop time. His advice...buy a Samsung. My wife, who really wanted the HLP5063 because the speakers were under the screen, was all over this...and here we are ;)

Once I get the 5067, I intend to set both DLPs side by side and compare them with the same source, apples to apples if you will. If I like the Sammy better I'm keeping it, if I feel the Panny has an edge in PQ then I'll get it fixed and keep it. My guess is that the 5067 will win, guess we'll find out soon enough.

RE: alternative to traditional television stands

Hi -- I've been following this board from the start. Great resource! Thanks everyone

There has been some past discussion on finding decent stands for the new Samsungs. My hlr4667 arrives from TVA tomorrow and I think I have come upon a stand solution for the 46 size sets that is a great alternative to the metal/glass solutions available from Samsung and others. Pottery Barn sells a small coffee table (44x23.5x19) that is a perfect fit for the 46 inch DLP. It also has an open shelf below large enough to accomodate a DVD player, etc. Finally, the piece looks nice and gets high marks on the SAF. (spouse approval factor) The table is in the Stinson collection. I bought one yesterday and I think it looks great. btw-- the table is only 19" high. perfect elevation for the 46" set

Originally posted by BenDover
From an article I just read, "Cinema Smooth" is TI's nomenclature...you are probably right about the Gen-5... aspect.

Actually I believe "Cinema Smooth" is a Samsung TM (although it is not entirely clear)

Here are the TI TM items and what they mean:

SharpPicture™: Processing enhancement that works in conjunction with SmoothPicture™ technology to simultaneously provide sharp, yet smooth and seamless images.
DynamicColor™: Enhances colors and contrast without impacting skin tones, allowing for more vibrant and lifelike color reproduction.
DynamicBlack™: System level solution which provides dramatic increases in system contrast ratio and grayscale fidelity by as much as 4x, bringing greater detail to dark scenes and images and allowing customers to achieve contrast ratios well above 5000:1.
DarkChip3™: Feature that includes architectural changes to the DLP chip resulting in a 20 - 40% improvement in contrast over DarkChip2™.

Originally posted by schaffer970
Actually I believe "Cinema Smooth" is a Samsung TM ...

Yep, Per Samsung literature (i.e., it's Samsung's, not TI's):

Samsung’s Cinema Smooth™ Film Mode 3:2
Pull Down correction circuitry senses motion found
in unconverted 480i DVD video based on 24 fps film
productions. Especially important when converting to
a progressive video image, the result is an elimination
of visible motion artifacts. This feature is by-passed on
480P, 720P and 1080i inputs.

Added in edit: I just noticed something kinda weird. Samsung has the acronym "DLP" trademarked (i.e., TM'd), as in "DLP (TM) TV"?

I looked again this morning at Sears, BB, CC and Tweeter to lay my eyes on a Samsung HL-R5067W with no success. Sears had this TV in their Sunday ad on May 1, but it was a no show. BB and CC say I dunno. Tweeter had 30 each 46" HL-R models in their warehouse, but none on display. Salesman's guess was they were waiting til the older models were sold out. No luck yet. WolfpackRon.

Best Buy in Marlborough, MA had the HLR5067 on display today. I think I have the number right. It was the floating screen 720p wobulated display. It looked pretty good.

Thanks, Shape,
I will keep my eyes open. They should be available any time. WolfpackRon.

Originally posted by donb1948
Added in edit: I just noticed something kinda weird. Samsung has the acronym "DLP" trademarked (i.e., TM'd), as in "DLP (TM) TV"?

If you look further, somewhere it will say that DLP is a TI trademark. The reason I left the "Cinema Smooth" as unclear, was because it is tied into the 3:2 Genesis pull-down. When I looked at the Genesis site they don't have anything about Cinema Smooth, so I think it is a Samsung TM.

Much ado about nothing :D

Originally posted by schaffer970
Much ado about nothing :D

I thought that's why we were all here....

This little exchange just brought back memories of discussions I've had with my former employer's trademark lawyers. One point they were constantly driving home was to ensure we properly recognized other folks trademarks by using the appropriate symbols. Using the TM on "DLP" makes sense. As for Cinema Smooth, Samsung's use of the possessive case makes me believe it's theirs.

As noted in Schaffer970's last post, I would think that the 3:2 pull down technology would be part of the Genesis subsystem and not a Samsung add-on. However, in an earlier thread in the video processor section, those noted that video processor chip makers will sometimes license the chip and design without the software, leaving it to the licensee to develop or otherwise procure the drivers.

As eloquently previously noted: Much ado about nothing.

Does anyone know if you can use the speakers in the HLR5067W as the Center Channel speaker of a Harmon Kardon Receiver.

From www.twice.com - Interesting reading!

Samsung Introduces 1,080p DLP Models

By Greg Tarr -- TWICE, 5/9/2005


New York — Samsung revealed it will ship in June its long-awaited 1,080p DLP rear-projection HDTV sets to complement a full line of 720p offerings, during press briefings at the Home Entertainment Show, here.

The 1080p DLP sets, which were slated to ship back in November, will expand a growing line of DLP rear-projection HDTV offerings for 2005. All models this year will integrate ATSC tuning and most also add digital CableCARD slots. The overall line will feature two basic classes of products for mainstream and A/V specialty accounts.

The 720p models in Samsung's 67 series will include the 42W-inch ($2,499 suggested retail price), 46W-inch ($2,699), 50W-inch ($2,999), 56W-inch (3,299) and 61W-inch ($3,699) screen sizes. The 68 series, for specialty distribution, will include 1,080p models in the 50W-inch ($4,000), 56W-inch ($4,499), 61W-inch (4,799), 67W-inch ($6,199) and 71W-inch (due in late summer at a $6,799) screen sizes.

Most step-up models will also include TV Guide On Screen interactive program guides and IEEE-1394 with DTCP inputs. Additionally, many step-up models will feature improved light engines with better contrast performance and will add a second HDMI/HDCP input.

Samsung expects about 70 percent of its DLP business to come from the 720p models, said Steve Panosian, Samsung's DLP marketing director.

A key screen size for Samsung this year will be its entry 720p 42W-inch model, which features a slim-design cabinet that will fit many existing armoires. Additionally, the set will be priced to keep a step ahead of plasma panels.

“We expect the street price for the 42W-inch model to hit around $2,300, and, with various promotions by the end of the year, we think the street price will be well below $1,999. That's key for getting the next tier of consumers who are looking at $1,500 and just need one more reason to jump up to $2,000.”

Meanwhile, Samsung will distribute its DLP design lines by class of trade. For example, models with a pedestal base design and all 67 series DLP models will be open to national distribution this year, including national and regional A/V retail chains, TV appliance chains and distributors.

Models in the 68 design series will be directed at Best Buy, select TV appliance chains and AVAD distributing.

Samsung will also offer a 78 series of 1,080p models with a different cosmetic style in the 50W-inch ($4,000), 56W-inch ($4,499), 61W-inch ($4,799), and 71W-inch ($6,799) screen sizes. These will be offered to AVB and Pro Group dealers and select A/V specialty dealers.

Derivative DLP models featuring 2004 styling cosmetics will be offered in a 56 series for mass merchants and warehouse clubs. This series will include 50W-inch and 56W-inch models, and possibly a 61W-inch model later in the year. These models have ATSC tuning but omit CableCARD slots.

Jim Sanduski, Samsung's visual media products marketing VP, said that because other manufacturers have recently dropped out of the HDTV CRT rear-projection television business, Samsung has decided again to add CRT-based rear-projection models to its national distribution program.

Sanduski said Samsung will offer two models in the 43W-inch ($1,200 suggested retail) and 47W-inch ($1,300) screen sizes, while reserving a 52W-inch model for “sheltered distribution.” The sets are slated to ship in May.

All three models will incorporate ATSC tuning but will not add digital CableCARD slots.

In digital direct view, Samsung will continue to carry only fully integrated ATSC models (without CableCARD capability), and will introduce in May its first SlimFit direct-view model offering a 30W-inch screen size ($999 suggested retail). The unit features a slimmed down cabinet with a reduced footprint.

In the third quarter, Samsung will ship a 26W-inch SlimFit unit, followed by a 27-inch 4:3 version in the fourth quarter.

All plasma models this year feature built-in ATSC tuners and CableCARD slots. Screen sizes include a 42W-inch EDTV model, a 42W-inch HD model and a 50W-inch HD model. Later in the year, the company will add a 63W-inch model and an 80W-inch 1080p set.

In LCD, Samsung is carrying models in 15-inch, 17-inch and 20-inch 4:3 screen sizes with EDTV resolution. HD models also will be offered in 23W inches, 26W inches, 32W inches, 40W inches, 46W inches and 57W inches.

If you check the CC web site today, you will see the HLR4266W for a lot less then mentioned in the press release.

Originally posted by schaffer970
If you look further, somewhere it will say that DLP is a TI trademark. The reason I left the "Cinema Smooth" as unclear, was because it is tied into the 3:2 Genesis pull-down. When I looked at the Genesis site they don't have anything about Cinema Smooth, so I think it is a Samsung TM.

Much ado about nothing :D

actually, samsung filed for the trademark on cinemasmooth in april of 2005; you can search the uspto's records here:

www.uspto.gov

^wow, that is huge news about the xx68 and xx78 series. Glad they will have them in 50" models and will be shipping in June. This gives me another reason to wait and see. Plus at only $1000 more, thats not so bad

Originally posted by Dick
If you check the CC web site today, you will see the HLR4266W for a lot less then mentioned in the press release. Not sure what you mean. The release states:
A key screen size for Samsung this year will be its entry 720p 42W-inch model, which features a slim-design cabinet that will fit many existing armoires. Additionally, the set will be priced to keep a step ahead of plasma panels. “We expect the street price for the 42W-inch model to hit around $2,300, and, with various promotions by the end of the year, we think the street price will be well below $1,999. ”

The CC special is in line with this.

The TI trademarked name for their 720p smooth picture chips is "SmoothPicture." Which was mentioned back in schaffer970's post.

Here's one of many references:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,1433482,00.asp

Samsung simply changed it to "Cinema Smooth" in their implementation.

Just called 1-800-Samsung to get information on the HLR6768 and they told me it has been canceled indefinitely...called back and was told the same thing from a different rep...anybody else heard about this...anybody have any Samsung contacts.

Originally posted by jwv651
Just called 1-800-Samsung to get information on the HLR6768 and they told me it has been canceled indefinitely...called back and was told the same thing from a different rep...anybody else heard about this...anybody have any Samsung contacts.

Wow! This was their showpiece; sounds weird.

Looks like the HL-R5068 lives again, yes! I prefer it to the black lacquer 78 series.

Originally posted by Tom_Bombadil
The TI trademarked name for their 720p smooth picture chips is "SmoothPicture." Which was mentioned back in schaffer970's post.

Here's one of many references:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,1433482,00.asp

Samsung simply changed it to "Cinema Smooth" in their implementation.

I do not believe your conclusion is correct. "SmoothPicture" is TI's trademarked name for a property of the 720p chip (and I believe the 1080p chips also) that basically eliminates the screen door effect, which is a property of the physical geometry and layout of the DMD chip. "Cinema Smooth" as described by Samsung is the technology they use for deinterlacing 480i signals that originated from film in order to avoid certain motion related artifacts.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by schaffer970
[B]From www.twice.com - Interesting reading!

Samsung Introduces 1,080p DLP Models

By Greg Tarr -- TWICE, 5/9/2005


I believe that this announcement is somewhat garbled. They list the 71" set under both the xx68 series--which I imagine is in error--as well as in the xx78 series. Also--somwhat disconcerting--is an MSRP for the 7178 of $6800. What is Samsung thinking? The Mits 73" set, the 73727 which has essentially all the features of Sammy's 7178, has an announced MSRP of $5800!! And Mits has traditionally been more expensive that Sammy. Can anybody make sense of this?

Originally posted by jwv651
Just called 1-800-Samsung to get information on the HLR6768 and they told me it has been canceled indefinitely...called back and was told the same thing from a different rep...anybody else heard about this...anybody have any Samsung contacts.

Do you think it is possible that they've decided to bump the 6768 set to a 7168, i.e., a 71" set in the xx68 series? That would be great!

Oops, I stand corrected. The Samsung models with HD2+ chips also feature the "Cinema Smooth Gen 5 engine."

From Samsung:
Samsung's Cinema Smooth Film Mode 3:2 Pull Down correction circuitry senses motion found in unconverted 480i DVD video content that's based on 24 fps film productions. Especially important when converting to a progressive video image, the result is an elimination of visible motion artifacts. This feature is by-passed on 480p, 720p and 1080i inputs. The HLR4667W's 3D Y/C Digital Comb Filter constantly analyzes the three dimensions of picture height, picture width, and picture changes-over-time, to reduce dramatically edge image artifacts while improving transition detail. 2-Tuner Picture-In-Picture (PIP) with side-by-side split screen enables convenient, simultaneous viewing of two TV programs on the same screen. A new, brighter HD Ultra-Fine (0.155mm) Pitch screen further improves picture clarity, especially when viewing higher definition video sources like DVD and HDTV.

Originally posted by Tom_Bombadil
Oops, I stand corrected. The Samsung models with HD2+ chips also feature the "Cinema Smooth Gen 5 engine."

From Samsung:
Samsung's Cinema Smooth Film Mode 3:2 Pull Down correction circuitry senses motion found in unconverted 480i DVD video content that's based on 24 fps film productions. Especially important when converting to a progressive video image, the result is an elimination of visible motion artifacts. This feature is by-passed on 480p, 720p and 1080i inputs. The HLR4667W's 3D Y/C Digital Comb Filter constantly analyzes the three dimensions of picture height, picture width, and picture changes-over-time, to reduce dramatically edge image artifacts while improving transition detail. 2-Tuner Picture-In-Picture (PIP) with side-by-side split screen enables convenient, simultaneous viewing of two TV programs on the same screen. A new, brighter HD Ultra-Fine (0.155mm) Pitch screen further improves picture clarity, especially when viewing higher definition video sources like DVD and HDTV.

I think this raises questions about the suitability of these first generation 1080p sets to HD DVD (of any flavor) since these standards will be 1080i inputs and greatly benefit from this 3:2 Pull Down correction, especially since 1080p will not be accepted as an input.

This is my swinging point. I am moving from enthusiastic to troubled. It may be very wise for me (since all my viewing is via DVD) to wait for HD DVD / Blu Ray to hit the market (hopefully they will be united) before taking the plunge on a 1080p set.

Do you think I am overreacting? I don't know yet.

Originally posted by millerwill
Do you think it is possible that they've decided to bump the 6768 set to a 7168, i.e., a 71" set in the xx68 series? That would be great! I am so confused at this point...I think Samsung is as confused as me or even more!
I hope someone here on this forum has a contact with some high up at Samsung that could possibly straighten out this crap. I want the 67" as it fits nicely with my 64" TV stand...plus it is 1080P.

Originally posted by jwv651
I am so confused at this point...I think Samsung is as confused as me or even more!
I hope someone here on this forum has a contact with some high up at Samsung that could possibly straighten out this crap. I want the 67" as it fits nicely with my 64" TV stand...plus it is 1080P.

My understanding is that there will be a 67" 68 series set (it is listed in the above press release). I just think it is strange that all 78 series sizes will have 68 series counterparts (with the 6768 being the only difference). I was under the understanding (is that good english?) that the largest and smallest (50 & 70-71) sets will be reserved for 78 series to make the high-end stores feel warm and fuzzy. I am sure those dealers will be upset if their only differentiating factor is the generally less liked black framed cabinent.

If Samsung drops the HLR6768/1080P...I might have to look at other manufacturers that will offer 1080P in the larger sizes. A lot of people are interested in that Samsung 67"

The 68 series, for specialty distribution, will include 1,080p models in the 50W-inch ($4,000), 56W-inch ($4,499), 61W-inch (4,799), 67W-inch ($6,199) and 71W-inch (due in late summer at a $6,799) screen sizes.

I think that the comment regarding the 68 series being available in all of those screen sizes was a typo, since it also mentions that the 68 series is going to be distributed to specialty stores....

Unfortunately, I think that we're still on track to only get the 50" in the 78 series styling.

I just wanted to make sure no one got their hopes up in case this isn't true.

Originally posted by Tom_Bombadil
Yes, I agree that the "upgrade" to the 4674 is a cable card and tuner. To me that is an upgrade.

The upgrades in the 4667 are more substantial. I'm anxious to see if the picture is better because the x63 series was a disappointment to my eyes.

Whether it is an upgrade is a fairly personal decision. It does depend on which bundle you like. Id rather have an internal tuner than an extra hdmi, but I'd sooner keep the vga port than get a cable card at least in its current form, and even the internal tuner I probably wouldn't use very much.

I don't really dislike the x63 myself but it did bother me that it was an upgrade to the hln in some ways and a downgrade in others. I like easier choices. Picking between the 67 and 77 might end up being kind of a tough call if it improves over the x63 very much, and snatching up the 74 might be the best deal of all if there are any still around.

Originally posted by John_Jones_CA
I think this raises questions about the suitability of these first generation 1080p sets to HD DVD (of any flavor) since these standards will be 1080i inputs and greatly benefit from this 3:2 Pull Down correction, especially since 1080p will not be accepted as an input.

This has also caused me some concern. My initial plan was to put a good part of my budget into a relatively expensive scaler/deinterlacer in order to get the best 720p signal possible to feed to a 720p set. However, the move toward the 1080p sets has caused me some pause because the technical improvements in the 1080p sets MIGHT provide better PQ than I would get with the 720p set, even with a top notch 720p input from an external scaler. The PQ of the 1080p set will of course be dependent on the internal scaler/de-interlacer of the the set and using an external scaler to provide the best 1080i signal is a waste. Since I do not know what the PQ of the 1080p sets will look like, I've resigned myself to waiting. If the 1080p sets do not meet my expectations, I'll settle for a good 720p with a decent external scaler.

Samsung MUST incorporate some sort of capability for deinterlacing that takes the source and motion compensation into consideration. If it's not Cinema Smooth, then it must something else, possibly associated with the Genesis chip subsystem. This is purely conjecture on my part and we'll know how well the de-interlacing is accomplished in a couple of months.

... It may be very wise for me (since all my viewing is via DVD) to wait for HD DVD / Blu Ray to hit the market (hopefully they will be united) before taking the plunge on a 1080p set. ...

I thought current rumors say that HD DVD and Blu Ray will have 1080i outputs. If so, you'll have the same problem as now and will be at the mercy of the display's scaler/de-interlacer.

Originally posted by John_Jones_CA
I think this raises questions about the suitability of these first generation 1080p sets to HD DVD (of any flavor) since these standards will be 1080i inputs and greatly benefit from this 3:2 Pull Down correction, especially since 1080p will not be accepted as an input.

This is my swinging point. I am moving from enthusiastic to troubled. It may be very wise for me (since all my viewing is via DVD) to wait for HD DVD / Blu Ray to hit the market (hopefully they will be united) before taking the plunge on a 1080p set.

Do you think I am overreacting? I don't know yet.

This is one of those times when I wish I knew a whole bunch more than I do. However, I am not sure this amounts to a hill of beans. The only time you care about 3:2 pull down correction is if you are letting the set do it; i.e. you have an older dvd player that either doesn't do it or does a poor job. In that case you might want to let the set do it. So if you have a newer DVD player it is probably doing the 3:2 pull down itself and you don't need the set to do it. As we move to HD DVD/Blu-ray, I believe the players will take care of the 3:2 pull down for you and it won't be an issue.

Hopefully someone who know a whole lot more about this will comment. ;)

Well, I suppose there is a chance that Cinema Smooth could be expanded to include 1080i smoothing on a 1080p set. Another feature that needs to be checked out on the new sets.

donb1948, so far all I have is the HLR5688 block diagram (diagram from the FCC website that shows the major electronic components) for the new HLR 1080p sets. In that set there are two video processors, the ATI Xilleon 226 and the genesis gm1601. Here is what is on the ATI site about the 226: "Other advanced display features include flicker removal, spatial-temporal adaptive deinterlacing, line doubling, studio quality text, and professional quality video scaling for video-in-a-window applications". In addition the gm1601 also does "motion adaptive deinterlacing up to 1080i". I don't know which inputs which chip is doing the video processing on, but in either case it looks like it will have no problem handling it. Also, don't forget that not all of the items listed above are necessarily used.

I saw the HLR 5067 (and 46, 42)today next to a HLP 5663, Tosh 52HM84, Sony KWF50 and a Mitsu and Panny. The room was dark(RC Willey in S.L.C.).

The HLR blew the others away. Seriously.

We(salesman and I)spent an hour looking at all of them and agreed that the smooth, focused quality of the HLR's were in another league. The HLR's didn't pop as much as the Sony's, but the focused and clean image was head and shoulders above everything else.

The colors were realistic, as opposed to the reddish/yellow tint of the Tosh and HLP. The Sony had good color(still not as realistic as the HLR), but the picture just didn't compare.

I'm very impressed.

Originally posted by donb1948
The PQ of the 1080p set will of course be dependent on the internal scaler/de-interlacer of the the set and using an external scaler to provide the best 1080i signal is a waste. donb1948, can you elaborate why an external scaler is a waste?

str8line;

That Sony was the only other set I was looking at, at the time. Then they unveiled the HLR set, and like you. I thought that the HLR simply was in a league of it's own!

Did you buy one?

I would like to hear what changes to POST #1 everyone thinks I should make based on the TWICE.com article. Here are the issues that I have been evaluating:

1. Do I add 50" and 71" models to the 68 series product line?

My inclination is to do nothing. I feel the TWICE.com article is probably wrong. Samsung confirmed that the 50" is only going be offered in the 78 series as recently as HES.

2. Do I revise pricing in the 78 series, especially the 71" based on this article. Please remember that Samsung has not released any pricing for the 78 series EXCEPT for the HLR5678W. The HLR5678W pricing was less than the HLR5668W prices released ... so we don't have a lot of confidence in it.

The pricing for the 78 series in the TWICE.com article matches the last round of prices released for the 68 series so the pricing might be right. I'm inclined to revise the 78 series pricing to bring it in line with the 68 series. Samsung has not responded to an email I sent them asking for prices. I think the safest approach may be to bring the 78 series pricing in line with 68 series. I don't think the 71" pricing in the TWICE.com article is correct ... so I would only change the 56" and 61" pricing.

After thinking about the price ($6,799) of the HLR7178W in the TWICE.com article, I am thinking that it might be right. The only competition for the HLR7178W when it is released may be the $13,000 Qualia 006. I guess the point is we really don't know. Right now I have the price of the 7178 at $6,499 in post #1. This is $300 less than the TWICE.com price ... it listed as a guess. Any thoughts?

I had an opportunity last night to see both the new 1080p Qualia 006 and the new Samsung HLR5067W at Magnolia HiFi in San Ramon, CA. It was a relatively slow night at Magnolia and I had the opportunity to spend as much time with both TV's as I needed to form some initial opinions.

The TVs were setup in a random, but interesting sequence. The Qualia 006 was centered on the wall with the HLR5067W right next to it. On the other side of the HLR5067W was a HLP4674W.

Seeing the 006 convinced me that 1080p is definitely going to be worthwhile ... big time. The extra detail in a 1080i broadcast signal is easy to see when comparing the 720p image to the 1080p image. These large, 70" in this case, systems really look nice in 1080p. As reported by others, the large 1080p screen looked clear and detailed. Another observation, don't worry about sitting 1.5x screen diagonal from the set to see the increased resolution. It is apparent from normal viewing distances (2x plus). Also, I'm going to keep an open mind, but all of this talk about 1080p does not make sense on smaller displays strikes me as flat out wrong. I'm sure I would have been able to easily see the increased detail on the 50" 720p screen, if it had been there. Oh, finally the Qualia 006 looked really nice. It certainly meet all of my expectations for a HDTV.

Now for some really good news for those considering 720p. The new HLRxx67W's are great sets. I like the HLR5067W better than all of the previous HLP models. Color was outstanding (just as good as the $13,000 Qualia 006). Contrast was great. Picture quality was excellent. I was impressed! When comparing 720p to 1080p it is surprising how similar a large portion of content looks. For example, I was watching a Discovery HD show on poker. The show had some scenes of Las Vegas. They seemed generally very similar on both TVs. But, then there were some scenes at the poker tables. On the 1080p system you could clearly read the writing on the poker chips, on the 720p that detail looked blurry. Essentially, in comparing the 1080p picture to a 720p picture for a 1080i broadcast, the overall effect was very similar except there was just more detail in the 1080p picture in some scenes. I would expect standard DVDs, 720p HDTV, and SD TV to look pretty similar on both sets. Although I didn't get to test those modes. I plan to go back and run a few more tests. My opinion of the 720p sets are that they are great performers that will deliver a great experience.

Originally posted by UCSB
I had an opportunity last night to see both the new 1080p Qualia 006 and the new Samsung HLR5067W at Magnolia HiFi in San Ramon, CA. It was a relatively slow night at Magnolia and I had the opportunity to spend as much time with both TV's as I needed to form some initial opinions.

The TVs were setup in a random, but interesting sequence. The Qualia 006 was centered on the wall with the HLR5067W right next to it. On the other side of the HLR5067W was a HLP4674W.

Seeing the 006 convinced me that 1080p is definitely going to be worthwhile ... big time. The extra detail in a 1080i broadcast signal is easy to see when comparing the 720p image to the 1080p image. These large, 70" in this case, systems really look nice in 1080p. As reported by others, the large 1080p screen looked clear and detailed. Another observation, don't worry about sitting 1.5x screen diagonal from the set to see the increased resolution. It is apparent from normal viewing distances (2x plus). Also, I'm going to keep an open mind, but all of this talk about 1080p does not make sense on smaller displays strikes me as flat out wrong. I'm sure I would have been able to easily see the increased detail on the 50" 720p screen, if it had been there. Oh, finally the Qualia 006 looked really nice. It certainly meet all of my expectations for a HDTV.

Now for some really good news for those considering 720p. The new HLRxx67W's are great sets. I like the HLR5067W better than all of the previous HLP models. Color was outstanding (just as good as the $13,000 Qualia 006). Contrast was great. Picture quality was excellent. I was impressed! When comparing 720p to 1080p it is surprising how similar a large portion of content looks. For example, I was watching a Discovery HD show on poker. The show had some scenes of Las Vegas. They seemed generally very similar on both TVs. But, then there were some scenes at the poker tables. On the 1080p system you could clearly read the writing on the poker chips, on the 720p that detail looked blurry. Essentially, in comparing the 1080p picture to a 720p picture for a 1080i broadcast, the overall effect was very similar except there was just more detail in the 1080p picture in some scenes. I would expect standard DVDs, 720p HDTV, and SD TV to look pretty similar on both sets. Although I didn't get to test those modes. I plan to go back and run a few more tests. My opinion of the 720p sets are that they are great performers that will deliver a great experience.

That's great news for those of us getting the HLRxx67 series (mine will be 4667). Ok, i have to ask, sorry, but was the picture of the 720p set sharper or softer than a previous 720P model? Another words, how did the new HD4 (or whatever you want to call it) chip perform in relation to the other non HD2+ chips? Would you say (i hope) that the new chip is second best?

Originally posted by schaffer970
This is one of those times when I wish I knew a whole bunch more than I do. However, I am not sure this amounts to a hill of beans. The only time you care about 3:2 pull down correction is if you are letting the set do it; i.e. you have an older dvd player that either doesn't do it or does a poor job. In that case you might want to let the set do it. So if you have a newer DVD player it is probably doing the 3:2 pull down itself and you don't need the set to do it. As we move to HD DVD/Blu-ray, I believe the players will take care of the 3:2 pull down for you and it won't be an issue.

Hopefully someone who know a whole lot more about this will comment. ;)

I certainly do not know a whole lot more, but...

Samsung's literature verifies your statement that Cinema Smooth will only be active when a 480i signal is sent to the display. Thus, as noted, if you are using a progressive scan dvd player and sending a 480p or 720p signal, Cinema Smooth is irrelevant. Regardless of the age of the dvd player, folks will want to check to see whether their dvd player or display's 480i processing provides the best PQ .

Originally posted by Ronnie 1.8
donb1948, can you elaborate why an external scaler is a waste?

First of all, I should have said "probably" or "most likely" a waste. See below.

In theory, one would use an external scaler/de-interlacer of better performance quality than the internal scaler/de-interlacer of the TV to produce a signal in the native resolution of the display such that the TV set would pass the signal without further processing (no more scaling/de-interlacing) straight to the display circuitry. This should provide the optimum PQ relative to elimination of scaling & deinterlacing artifacts (only!). The new Samsung sets will have a native display resolution 1080p but can not accept a 1080p signal. This means that no matter what signal you send to the TV (480i, 480p, 720p or 1080i), the set will have to internally process the signal (scale/deinterlace) to get the 1080p signal for display. Thus, no matter how well your external scaler works and no matter how good a signal it produces, the signal will be further manipulated by the internal TV systems before display. Whether the internal processing will degrade or improve the signal from the external scaler is at this point pure conjecture. However, most folks feel that a decent external scaler would out perform any of the current internal scalers. Thus, the feeling is that an external scaler will have little or no impact on picture quality since the internal scaler/de-interlacer is the last processing in the chain. (Who knows... Maybe the new Samsungs with its ATI and Genesis chips will counter these "feelings." )

The reason for modifying my initial statement by adding "probably" is because their is a slight chance that the output of the internal processors might be a function of the quality of the input to the TV. Thus, providing the highest quality signal to the TV could result in the best PQ relative to scaling/deinterlacing artifacts. For example, what if the internal de-interlacing processing was so-so, but the internal scaling was fantastic. In this case you'd want to use an external device for de-interlacing and feed a progressive signal to the set. But then, what price are you willing to pay for the external processor to get a possible slight improvement in PQ.

I actually want to optimize my system for dvd replay. (A high quality, high definition replay of a mediocre (but fun) movie turns me on more than seeing ER or the evening news in high def.) At this point, my budget includes provisions for a Denon DVD 5910 (MSRP $3500) with the latest in scaler/deinterlacing technology from Silicon Optix or a Denon 2910 with sdi modification + an Algorith Dragonfly (scaler/deinterlacer) with sdi option (MSRP $3500+). [If I would get the Dragonfly, every thing - cable STB, dvd, even my old VHS VCR - would run through it.] Based on the above discussion, you can see that neither of these options make any sense economically or otherwise IF the signal is "degraded" by the displays internal processing.

However, rather than fret about this, I'm taking a wait and see attitude. After I see what the Sammy 1080ps can do with or to various signals, I'll make the decision as to what to buy.

Originally posted by donb1948
First of all, I should have said "probably" or "most likely" a waste. See below.

In theory, one would use an external scaler/de-interlacer of better performance quality than the internal scaler/de-interlacer of the TV to produce a signal in the native resolution of the display such that the TV set would pass the signal without further processing (no more scaling/de-interlacing) straight to the display circuitry. This should provide the optimum PQ relative to elimination of scaling & deinterlacing artifacts (only!). The new Samsung sets will have a native display resolution 1080p but can not accept a 1080p signal. This means that no matter what signal you send to the TV (480i, 480p, 720p or 1080i), the set will have to internally process the signal (scale/deinterlace) to get the 1080p signal for display. Thus, no matter how well your external scaler works and no matter how good a signal it produces, the signal will be further manipulated by the internal TV systems before display. Whether the internal processing will degrade or improve the signal from the external scaler is at this point pure conjecture. However, most folks feel that a decent external scaler would out perform any of the current internal scalers. Thus, the feeling is that an external scaler will have little or no impact on picture quality since the internal scaler/de-interlacer is the last processing in the chain. (Who knows... Maybe the new Samsungs with its ATI and Genesis chips will counter these "feelings." )

The reason for modifying my initial statement by adding "probably" is because their is a slight chance that the output of the internal processors might be a function of the quality of the input to the TV. Thus, providing the highest quality signal to the TV could result in the best PQ relative to scaling/deinterlacing artifacts. But then, what price are you willing to pay for the external processor to get a possible slight improvement in PQ.

I actually want to optimize my system for dvd replay. (A high quality, high definition replay of a mediocre (but fun) movie turns me on more than seeing ER or the evening news in high def.) At this point, my budget includes provisions for a Denon DVD 5910 (MSRP $3500) with the latest in scaler/deinterlacing technology from Silicon Optix or a Denon 2910 with sdi modification + an Algorith Dragonfly (scaler/deinterlacer) with sdi option (MSRP $3500+). [If I would get the Dragonfly, every thing - cable STB, dvd, even my old VHS VCR - would run through it.] Based on the above discussion, you can see that neither of these options make any sense economically or otherwise IF the signal is "degraded" by the displays internal processing.

However, rather than fret about this, I'm taking a wait and see attitude. After I see what the Sammy 1080ps can do with or to various signals, I'll make the decision as to what to buy.

Exactly. If I get one of these or something equivalent thereof by November, an external video processor like an Iscan or Dragonfly is a distant and optional 2006 purchase as far as I'm concerned. If even that.

I already have the Onkyo DV_SP1000, which produces a hell of a great PQ right out of the box, especially over HDMI.

SD and analog material? Meh, I won't throw a lot of money at it. If DirecTV goes MPEG4 and has new satellites and more HD programming, that should more than satisfy my needs.

Originally posted by UCSB
After thinking about the price ($6,799) of the HLR7178W in the TWICE.com article, I am thinking that it might be right. The only competition for the HLR7178W when it is released may be the $13,000 Qualia 006. I guess the point is we really don't know. Right now I have the price of the 7178 at $6,499 in post #1. This is $300 less than the TWICE.com price ... it listed as a guess. Any thoughts?

Seeing that many folks read Post #1 without retaining the caveats in mind, can you list both prices with a word or two in regard to source of price? List the one you are most comfortable with as primary and include the other with a note so folks will know there is uncertainty and should consider a range of prices.

Excellent job maintaining Post #1! I really appreciate your efforts.

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
SD and analog material? Meh, I won't throw a lot of money at it. If DirecTV goes MPEG4 and has new satellites and more HD programming, that should more than satisfy my needs.

Different strokes for different folks...

Originally posted by DLPDAVE
str8line;

That Sony was the only other set I was looking at, at the time. Then they unveiled the HLR set, and like you. I thought that the HLR simply was in a league of it's own!

Did you buy one?

Not yet, but it solidified the HLR as my choice after over a month of research. I'm going to see who has the best deal and pull the trigger on a HLR5667.

I feel like a weight has been lifted off of me and now I am totally relaxed that it offers all of the features, the looks, and the picture quality that I'm looking for.

What a coincidence, UCSB.

My wife and I took a second look at the Sony Qualia 006 yesterday at the local Tweeter. It looked outstanding on high def as well as 480p sources. When I asked them about the 1080p Samsungs, they said they still expect them to arrive in June. No delays that they were aware of--but they wouldn't have the model numbers until they arrived in the warehouse. I suspect they'll be carrying the 78 series.

UCSB and Str8line,
How would you say the HL-R5067W PQ compares in sharpness to the Samsung HL-P5085W with the 2+ chip? Also, Stra8line, I was looking at the Sony KDF55WF655, how does the HL-R5067W compare in PQ sharpness to the Sony. I still have not been able to put my eyes on the new Samsung. Thanks in advance, WolfpackRon.

Originally posted by wolfpackron
UCSB and Str8line,
How would you say the HL-R5067W PQ compares in sharpness to the Samsung HL-P5085W with the 2+ chip? Also, Stra8line, I was looking at the Sony KDF55WF655, how does the HL-R5067W compare in PQ sharpness to the Sony. I still have not been able to put my eyes on the new Samsung. Thanks in advance, WolfpackRon.

First of all you absolutely need to go down and compare the two sets if you are interested in both. But, since I had the chance to view a HLR5067W right next to a HLP4674W I'll give it a shot. But, before I give you my impressions, let me tell you what happened at the store.

I went to Magnolia. Traffic was pretty light in the store and so the sales staff was chatting with me about the new models as I was evaluating the HLR5067W (they know that I am an expert). I made the comment that Samsung and TI have done a great job of totally confusing everyone about the DLP chips in the new models and asked them what chip was in the TV. They immediately said a HD2+ (it was in all of their sales reference material). I explained that was incorrect and asked them to come over to the TV and take a close look. Sure enough ... after a short inspection they confirmed that it was a wobulation chip and that their HD2+ info was not correct.

Well, this TV had been on the floor for several days with the entire staff at Magnolia showing it to customers and looking at it right next to a HD2+ set and they had not noticed that it was not a HD2+. Something to keep in mind.

OK. Here are my impressions. The colors are better on the HLR5067W. As noted by others they are vibrant, have impact and look great. I thought the picture looked better ... actually great. On the sharpness issue ... first, the HLR5067W image still has the wobulation pixel pattern. The picture looks sharp. But, if you pick details on the HLP4674W and compare them to the HLR5067W, they might look a little sharper on the HLP4674W. I say might because it is somewhat dangerous to compare TV's that are different screen sizes ... the smaller TV will typically look sharper. If both sets had been a 50", it would have been a better comparison. From my perspective, the color and contrast improvements far out weighed the sharpness issue. But, since the contrast ratio on the HLP5085W is equal to the HLR5067W and they both use a 7 segment color wheel. There could be less of a difference in the areas of contrast and color.

Actually, Magnolia had a HLPxx63W set in the area and I didn't really try to do a sharpness comparison. I'll try to evaluate sharpness in more detail on my next trip. I was really focusing on the Qualia 006 1080p ... and not so much on the HLP4674W (which I have seen dozens of times) so look at this comparison as preliminary. I'll run some detailed tests (by freezing the pictures) on my next trip to Magnolia.

There was a HLP5685W on the other side of the Qualia 006 (so the Qualia was between the HLR5067W and the HLP5685W) and I was not focusing on the sharpness between them ... but feel the sharpness on the HLP4674W is similar to the HLP5085W so that is probably as close as I can get to an answer for you.

Originally posted by wolfpackron
UCSB and Str8line,
How would you say the HL-R5067W PQ compares in sharpness to the Samsung HL-P5085W with the 2+ chip? Also, Stra8line, I was looking at the Sony KDF55WF655, how does the HL-R5067W compare in PQ sharpness to the Sony. I still have not been able to put my eyes on the new Samsung. Thanks in advance, WolfpackRon.

Hi Wolfpack,

There was a Toshiba 52HM84(HD2+) just about next to the HLR5067and there was a big difference in PQ. The HLP5663 right next to the HLR was about as bad as the Tosh.

Beyond the more realistic colors, the sharpness of the HLR blew both the Tosh and the Sony out of the water. Once we got the eyes adjusted to really notice differences both the salesperson and I were surprised at the difference in sharpness. I'd say the Sony KDF50 and the Toshiba were at the same level of sharpness.

For example, on the HLR you could see the fabric weave of a cotton short sleeved collared shirt this one guy was wearing like you were standing next to him and looking closely at his shirt. Both the Sony and the Tosh were blurred so much that you couldn't see the weave well at all. It had the appearance of being not only out of focus, but there was movement to it as well. The HLR was totally steady and sharp.

The pop of the color wasn't as strong on the HLR vs. the Sony and Tosh but with keen observance we both agreed that the HLR was more realistic. Overall brightness on the HLR was definitely noticably less but as I mentioned it seemed more realistic than the others.

Originally posted by donb1948
Different strokes for different folks...

Saving money is something that can appeal to all. We'll see what it all looks like come 2006.

Originally posted by UCSB
After thinking about the price ($6,799) of the HLR7178W in the TWICE.com article, I am thinking that it might be right. The only competition for the HLR7178W when it is released may be the $13,000 Qualia 006. I guess the point is we really don't know. Right now I have the price of the 7178 at $6,499 in post #1. This is $300 less than the TWICE.com price ... it listed as a guess. Any thoughts?

Thanks for all your great reports, esp comparing the Sony Qualia to the new Sammy xx67's; really makes one think that the Sammy 1080p sets will be a winner.

Re the MSRP of the 7178, I'm afraid you are probably right, i.e., at $6800. But there IS some serious competition, the Mits 73727, which is announced for Sept at $5800. It has essentially all the significant features of the Sammy (e.g., 2 HDMI inputs, etc.), and I would imagine that the PQ of the Mits will be approximately the same as the Sammy. This will probably mean that the Sammy will be available at better 'deals' from the B&M's.

Originally posted by millerwill
Thanks for all your great reports, esp comparing the Sony Qualia to the new Sammy xx67's; really makes one think that the Sammy 1080p sets will be a winner.

Probably a better bang for your bucks/value for your dollar, unless a lot of glitches and God forsaken bugaboos come out of nowhere.



Re the MSRP of the 7178, I'm afraid you are probably right, i.e., at $6800. But there IS some serious competition, the Mits 73727, which is announced for Sept at $5800. It has essentially all the significant features of the Sammy (e.g., 2 HDMI inputs, etc.), and I would imagine that the PQ of the Mits will be approximately the same as the Sammy. This will probably mean the the Sammy will be available at better 'deals' from the B&M's.

And a lot of people will favor the Mits. brand over Samsung. That kind of intangible has to figure into this equation at some point as well.

I've updated the 78 series pricing in POST #1. I have brought the 56" and 61" pricing in line with the 68 series pricing in the last press release from Samsung. In addition, I have set 7178 pricing at $6,799. I understand that some people feel that the Samsung pricing in the last press release was in error, but it is the best we have at this point in time. Samsung has not answered my email asking for price clarification, yet.

Originally posted by AkaStp
As mentioned above, how about adding info about the 56 series?...
"Derivative DLP models featuring 2004 styling cosmetics will be offered in a 56 series for mass merchants and warehouse clubs. This series will include 50W-inch and 56W-inch models, and possibly a 61W-inch model later in the year. These models have ATSC tuning but omit CableCARD slots."

OK ... let me see if I can work something up.

I just ordered my HL-R6167, what you guys doing for stands?

Holy Crud!,

That was a lot of reading/scanning. Does anyone know of any of the HL-R5668W Arrival dates or any other info on where would be the "better" place to order or see one?
Thanks,
Jon

Jon,

If we knew anything at this point, we'd be in seventh heaven! (UCSB's first post is, from my view point, definitive on the sets.)

Earlier this week I put in an order with my distributor for a HLR 6168. In terms of delivery they just said that it will be summer.

But the good news was that it was listed on their website with pricing info and they were taking orders. So the tv's must be on the boat or the distributor must know something.

Yet I don't even see the set listed on Samsung's website.

Is mid June our best guess for these tv's?

I posted in the TVA thread, but wanted to post here just in case you're not watching that thread.

Received my HL-R4667w today...10 minute lunch time install...looks good, however, there are some audio synch issues. I haven't fully looked in to this, and will probably have more time tonight. It may be my cable box, but I'll know more later.

I'll post my results.

-Michael

phew lotta info.

Didn't really see any info on the hl-r5087. Does anyone know if they fixed the lag issue with videogames that are 480i in this model?

i notice its got the gen 5 lightengine whereas most other models had a 3 or 4. since thats a factor of the cinesmooth technology which im guessing is the major reason for the video lag on 480i i was thinking that might have been the fix. Hell maybe the hl-p5085 man this is a pain, lol

oh, and is it guarenteed that all hlp5085s and lhr5087s will have the HD2+ chip in it? i saw that post where salespeople were saying they had HD2+'s on a different line and they didnt

Please somebody tell me if I'm missing something, namely about Sammy's MSRP for the 7178, $6800, given the fact that Mits has announced an MSRP of $5800 for their 73" set, the WD-73727. So far as I can tell from the announcements, the two have essentially the same features, e.g., 2 HDMI inputs, etc. Is there something important I've missed? And though the trade names for everything ('cinema smooth', dark chip3, etc.) make it confusing, it looks to me that they have the same PQ enhancements, and since they will both have the same chip ('xHD4') I presume their PQ's will be about the same. Anything here I'm missing?

If all of this is correct, how can Sammy think they can get a thousand $ more for 2" less? Can anyone make sense of this?

Originally posted by millerwill
Please somebody tell me if I'm missing something, namely about Sammy's MSRP for the 7178, $6800, given the fact that Mits has announced an MSRP of $5800 for their 73" set, the WD-73727. So far as I can tell from the announcements, the two have essentially the same features, e.g., 2 HDMI inputs, etc. Is there something important I've missed? And though the trade names for everything ('cinema smooth', dark chip3, etc.) make it confusing, it looks to me that they have the same PQ enhancements, and since they will both have the same chip ('xHD4') I presume their PQ's will be about the same. Anything here I'm missing?

If all of this is correct, how can Sammy think they can get a thousand $ more for 2" less? Can anyone make sense of this?

I think the Sammy sets are due to hit the street first, so they may be able to sell some at a premium early on. From what I've read, I believe the Mits sets are due out in the fall. I'm sure that the pricing will fluctuate based on what competition is out there. Supply & demand & all that...

From what I've read, there's a 1080P input on the 7178, and no 1080P input on the 73727.

Originally posted by millerwill
Please somebody tell me if I'm missing something, namely about Sammy's MSRP for the 7178, $6800, given the fact that Mits has announced an MSRP of $5800 for their 73" set, the WD-73727. So far as I can tell from the announcements, the two have essentially the same features, e.g., 2 HDMI inputs, etc. Is there something important I've missed? And though the trade names for everything ('cinema smooth', dark chip3, etc.) make it confusing, it looks to me that they have the same PQ enhancements, and since they will both have the same chip ('xHD4') I presume their PQ's will be about the same. Anything here I'm missing?

If all of this is correct, how can Sammy think they can get a thousand $ more for 2" less? Can anyone make sense of this?

Does Mits have dynamic black? If not, it could explain the difference.

Saluki: Yes, the Mits 73727 is announced for Sept, and you may certainly be right that Sammy is just trying to skim off some extra profit for those who 'just can't wait'.

Axel Olmos: I don't think any of the new 1080p sets will have 1080p inputs. Someone correct me if this is incorrect.

UCSB: Mits has something called 'DeepField Imager' and a 'SmartShutter System' which "produces a four-times improvement in contrast performance, yielding deeper blacks in dark scenes by blocking light leaskage". The terms 'SharpPicture', 'DynamicColor', 'DynamicBlack', and 'DarkChip3' are all TI terms that are presumably in all the xHD4 sets. My guess is that the Sammy and Mits will have essentially the same technology in their 1080p sets, though one may implement it better than the other, which of course I do not know. But if their present HD2+ sets are any indication, I imagine that the two will be about the same. (But the Mits weighs more!

Originally posted by millerwill
Axel Olmos: I don't think any of the new 1080p sets will have 1080p inputs. Someone correct me if this is incorrect.

The MITs xx927 models will have a dedicated PC input (DVI?) that is said to accept 1920 x 1080p (60hz) input.

http://www.twice.com/article/CA525611.html

This is also included in the article: All Mitsubishi 1,080p models will also receive an MPEG 1,080p 24 fps signal via broadcast or IEEE-1394 input, Zanfino said.

You'll need to register to read the article.

donb1948: Thanks for this info. I was restricting the comparison to the Mits 73727, though, since it is the one w/o the internal DVR, in order to try as direct a comparison to the Sammy as possible.

I doubt anyone knows this, but I'll try anyway: Anyone know the HEIGHT of the STAND for the Sammy 7178 (or 7078)? I tried to scale it from one of the photos in UCSB's great summary entry, and come up with something like 14.5" +/-1". Can anyone do any better?

Random note: the height of the Sammy 71" set looks like it will be ~49", while that of the Mits 73" set is stated to be 44.8"; i.e., the Mits will present a more 'all screen' image to the viewer than the Sammy. I am surely looking forward to being able to look at these two monsters side by side!!

Originally posted by TimWA
I just ordered my HL-R6167, what you guys doing for stands? Considering the many factors involved in choosing a stand, I'm going with a semi-custom Salamander. It is attractive, blends well with the room it will be in, holds all my components, and has a shelf for the center speaker.

Originally posted by Ronnie 1.8
Considering the many factors involved in choosing a stand, I'm going with a semi-custom Salamander. It is attractive, blends well with the room it will be in, holds all my components, and has a shelf for the center speaker.

I think i'm going to go with a techcraft 60" tv stand:

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Tech-Craft-60-TV-Stand-TC60LCB-/sem/rpsm/oid/112101/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

Tech Craft 60" TV Stand (TC60LCB)

Originally posted by Ronnie 1.8
Considering the many factors involved in choosing a stand, I'm going with a semi-custom Salamander. It is attractive, blends well with the room it will be in, holds all my components, and has a shelf for the center speaker.

I went this route:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4165382#post4165382

Except I added a middle shelf with just enough space to keep my xbox and dvd player. I didn't want to stack that stuff on top of my receiver or satellite box which are on the bottom shelf.

Total cost: about $100.

Originally posted by Saluki
I think the Sammy sets are due to hit the street first, so they may be able to sell some at a premium early on. From what I've read, I believe the Mits sets are due out in the fall. I'm sure that the pricing will fluctuate based on what competition is out there. Supply & demand & all that...


Good point. This model will probably take a quick $1,500/$2,000 price hit once the Mits and JVC 1080P's hit the street. They'll soak a hefty premium from the people who just can't wait a few months and don't mind p*ssing away an extra grand or two more than they have to. Marketing 101: The perks of being 1st to market with a new product.

Originally posted by shanec
I went this route:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4165382#post4165382

Except I added a middle shelf with just enough space to keep my xbox and dvd player. I didn't want to stack that stuff on top of my receiver or satellite box which are on the bottom shelf.

Total cost: about $100. Yeah, OK, you are saving a little bit over the semi-custom Salamander - just one zero!! ;)

LOL. There is definitely a lot of lattitude on TV stands. I had obvious functional requirements and near zero cosmetic requirements. ;-) But at least I get to tell good jokes about having a $3,000 TV on a $100 TV stand. :-)

HP is also coming out with 2 1080p DLP RPTV models in 3Q05 - a 58" and 65". Supposed to have 8,500:1 contrast ratio. Prices have not yet been set.

Thanks UCSB and Stra8line and everyone else on this forum for the PQ comparison info on the Samsung HL-R5067W versus the Samsung HL-P5085 and Sony KDF55WF655. I finally was able to see this new Samsung in person at BB. I saw both the 50" and the 56" as well. It was hard to compare them to the 5085 since they were not side by side. It was located next to the older HL-P5063W model. I am still not a pro at judging the PQ, but with your input and my eyes, I decided to order the HL-R5067W. Thanks again, WolfpackRon.

Originally posted by UCSB
The new HLRxx67W's are great sets. I like the HLR5067W better than all of the previous HLP models. Color was outstanding (just as good as the $13,000 Qualia 006). Contrast was great. Picture quality was excellent. I was impressed! When comparing 720p to 1080p it is surprising how similar a large portion of content looks. UCSB, based on your personal experience, what are your thoughts on saving $1,100 and going with the 6167 rather than the 6168? I could put that $1.1K towards speakers, components, etc. But I also don't want regrets in the near future. I understand there are many personal elements (such as sensitivity to $1,100), so please exclude them from your consideration.

Originally posted by Ronnie 1.8
UCSB, based on your personal experience, what are your thoughts on saving $1,100 and going with the 6167 rather than the 6168? I could put that $1.1K towards speakers, components, etc. But I also don't want regrets in the near future. I understand there are many personal elements (such as sensitivity to $1,100), so please exclude them from your consideration.

I think that the 67 series gives you a terrific entertainment experience for the money. My parents are planning to upgrade to HD in the fall and I am definitely going to be recommending a 67 series for them.

I haven't seen the 6167 yet, but as I stated above I was really impressed with the 5067.

Since you live in Castro Valley, you could just drive over the Magnolia HiFi in San Ramon and take a look at the Qualia 006 and the Samsung 5067. My guess is that you would not leave the store without a firm opinion on which way you should go. It would a reasonable decision to decide that the 720p meets your needs ... it would also be just as reasonable to decide that 1080p is worth the extra money. This is the first year that these sets have gotten good enough that we really have two totally viable approaches in DLP.

Would I save the $1,100 on the 67 and put it into some other area of my system. Maybe. But, here is an alternative idea. Why not figure out exactly what you want to buy and get a loan for part of the entire system. You can pay it off over the next three years while you are enjoying the system. I have found that my home theater purchases deliver a lot of fun and recreation and are worth setting up right.

OK ... so I haven't exactly answered your question. There is one thing that I can say for sure. If someone has definitely made the decision, based on price, that they are going to go with the 67 series ... then they should do themself a favor, buy the set and don't go down and look at 1080p units. Period! Especially, in the larger screen sizes (61" plus). After seeing the 1080p Qualia the other night, I don't think I will ever look at my 720p set the same again.

In regards to this comment:

The new Samsung sets will have a native display resolution 1080p but can not accept a 1080p signal. This means that no matter what signal you send to the TV (480i, 480p, 720p or 1080i), the set will have to internally process the signal (scale/deinterlace) to get the 1080p signal for display. Thus, no matter how well your external scaler works and no matter how good a signal it produces, the signal will be further manipulated by the internal TV systems before display.

This is not true. While the Samsung 68 and 78 series will not be able to accept 1080p on the HDMI inputs, it will accept 1080p on the PC HD-15 input, unprocessed. So if you use an external scaler and upconvert to 1080p and use the DVI out of say a iScan HD+, you can input that signal, unprocessed by the internal decoder, via the HD-15 input with a DVI to HD-15 converter, due to HDCP.

That should solve the issue. Atleast, that's what I'm planning on doing. If you find a flaw in that logic, please let me know.

Best Regards,
Adam

Originally posted by Enversions
In regards to this comment:

The new Samsung sets will have a native display resolution 1080p but can not accept a 1080p signal. This means that no matter what signal you send to the TV (480i, 480p, 720p or 1080i), the set will have to internally process the signal (scale/deinterlace) to get the 1080p signal for display. Thus, no matter how well your external scaler works and no matter how good a signal it produces, the signal will be further manipulated by the internal TV systems before display.

This is not true. While the Samsung 68 and 78 series will not be able to accept 1080p on the HDMI inputs, it will accept 1080p on the PC HD-15 input, unprocessed. So if you use an external scaler and upconvert to 1080p and use the DVI out of say a iScan HD+, you can input that signal, unprocessed by the internal decoder, via the HD-15 input with a DVI to HD-15 converter, due to HDCP.

That should solve the issue. Atleast, that's what I'm planning on doing. If you find a flaw in that logic, please let me know.

Best Regards,
Adam

It's not the cheapest solution on the books, but if you're logic holds out, I guess I'm buying an Iscan or some other equivalent video processor in 2006 after I've spent the beans on my display upgrade.

UCSB, I know how you feel after seeing the Qualia. I saw one in Denver about 3 weeks ago. List is $13,000 and the store I saw it at was actually asking 13,900 for it (HA HA). I watched a DiscoveryHD special about Mars and they showed a bunch of stuff about how dust blows around etc. After I had watched for a while I felt like I needed to brush the dust of myself! All I can say is if the HLRxx68's even reach 75% of what the Qualia can do, I will be more than satisfied.

Impatiently waiting! :)

Originally posted by Enversions
This is not true. While the Samsung 68 and 78 series will not be able to accept 1080p on the HDMI inputs, it will accept 1080p on the PC HD-15 input, unprocessed.

There was a lot of speculation in this or the other Samsung 2005 thread around the time of HES that the 1080p sets would take a 1080p input. For a time many folks, including Steve P. were saying that the 1080p sets would take a 1080p input. However, if I remember correctly, the demo of the ability to take the 1080p signal was not successful and the conclusion was that the sets could not take a 1080p signal. On the otherhand, I do not recall anyone identifying which inputs were used in the failed demo.

If you have verified your conclusions with Samsung or other authority, you should get UCSB to include this info in Post #1.

Added on edit: I just checked Post #1 again and noticed that the VGA inputs are listed as taking a 1920 x 1080p @ 60hz signal. If this proves to be correct, then your logic is good.

Enversions is talking about 1080P on the VGA (analog) input. I feel very comfortable that this is true (based on the preliminary manual for the HLR5688). What we do not know is whether 1080P input is possible through the HDMI (digital) inputs. It is also not clear (at least to me) what might be possible over the D-Net (1394/firewire). I have seen reports that HD DVD/Blu-ray will have 1394 and that 1080P (if output by the new machines) would be possible.