I'm a newbie, considering a 56 or 61-inch 68 or 78 to replace a direct-view tube. Can anyone tell me how Samsung DLPs screens are in terms of light reflections? My room can be moderately bright...no sunlight will fall directly on the screen, but sun will be streaming through a french door to the side, and with the existing wega the reflections are just terrible.

I have been looking at the Samsung dlps since they came out, and have been waiting for the quality to improve. I have limited space (45"W x 32"H x 19"D) (built in entertainment center), so the 46" dlps are the best fit. I was excited about the new 4677, only to find out it has the hd2+ chip.....then I was excited about the cheaper 4667, only to hear all of the complaints on the forums about audio sync issues, picture quality..etc.... So, then I saw the new Panasonic PT-44LCX65...size is perfect...but again I see complaints and people saying it isn't as good as the Samsung dlps. I would love to buy a 1080p tv, but they don't make a 46" model, and people say that is too small to see the benefits anyways. If they made a slim bezel 50", that would be perfect. I want a tv within the next 1-3 months max...any advice??? Any new models coming out that might be better and fit in my limited space?? Thanks

I would like to point out the the audio sync issues have NOT been verified at this point in time. PQ on the 4667 is great!

phew, lotta reading on the past 6 pages ive fallen behind on.

ok so i dont see that much talk on the hlr5087.. it came up a few times but no ones sure what chips in it. Thats odd since it should be out by now, best buy has them in but not on the floor yet because they're trying to get rid of the floor model 85 first.

seing as how the 87 is the one im really leaning twords i really need to find out if its an hd2+ or the hd2++ (or whatever you guys wanna call it, the .8" mirror setup) Id settle for an hd2+, though the succesor would be better, i just really dont want any of the wobulated or other junk like that. It seems to me that it is going to be a different chip than the hd2+ simply because the website doesn't label it as a .8" 720p chip, like it still does for the 85 (which it called a 4th gen system before) it calls it a generation 5 chip.. with no more info than that

the other part that has me worried is the price point.. how is the new updated model 87 actually CHEAPER than the older 85 model? that leads me to belive it might be one of the cheaper wobulation chips

ungh im so confused. i checked that pattent page a few pages back but couldn't find anything on the 87 at all. How do we not have any kinda spec sheets for this machine when its already out? Just lookin for a little clarification if possible since the 87 hasn't been mentioned that much

I'm a newbie, considering a 56 or 61-inch 68 or 78 to replace a direct-view tube. Can anyone tell me how Samsung DLPs screens are in terms of light reflections? My room can be moderately bright...no sunlight will fall directly on the screen, but sun will be streaming through a french door to the side, and with the existing wega the reflections are just terrible.

My understanding is that the Samsung DLPs have a non-glossy finish that doesn't pick up a lot of reflections and thus are fairly good in less perfectly controlled lighting conditions. However RPs are, in general, much worse than direct-view tubes in handling poor lighting conditions.

I have never had a non direct-view tube myself I have just been following longer than you so if anyone else has additional, or conflicting experiences that would be good.

phew, lotta reading on the past 6 pages ive fallen behind on.

ok so i dont see that much talk on the hlr5087.. it came up a few times but no ones sure what chips in it. Thats odd since it should be out by now, best buy has them in but not on the floor yet because they're trying to get rid of the floor model 85 first.

seing as how the 87 is the one im really leaning twords i really need to find out if its an hd2+ or the hd2++ (or whatever you guys wanna call it, the .8" mirror setup) Id settle for an hd2+, though the succesor would be better, i just really dont want any of the wobulated or other junk like that. It seems to me that it is going to be a different chip than the hd2+ simply because the website doesn't label it as a .8" 720p chip, like it still does for the 85 (which it called a 4th gen system before) it calls it a generation 5 chip.. with no more info than that

the other part that has me worried is the price point.. how is the new updated model 87 actually CHEAPER than the older 85 model? that leads me to belive it might be one of the cheaper wobulation chips

ungh im so confused. i checked that pattent page a few pages back but couldn't find anything on the 87 at all. How do we not have any kinda spec sheets for this machine when its already out? Just lookin for a little clarification if possible since the 87 hasn't been mentioned that much

A day or so ago a HLRxx87W owners thread was started. It's just getting going, but you should post your questions over there. The originator of the thread, Chris, has had his unit for the past three weeks and I hope we can get his help in resolving some of the open questions.

We don't know much about the 87 series because it was not shown at CES or HES and there has been virtually no information available about it.

Here is the link to Samsung HLR XX87W Pedistal Owners Thread - 720p DLP (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=543286&highlight=owners)

tnx ill go check that thread out, looks like not much info there yet but we'll see. If you guys ever get ahold of a specs sheet or something though dont forget to post it ;P Even the d.loaded manual has the spec sheet missing. I really need to know on the whole hd2+ or 2++ (whatever its gonna be called) thing... just as long as its not a wobulation chip

tnx ill go check that thread out, looks like not much info there yet but we'll see. If you guys ever get ahold of a specs sheet or something though dont forget to post it ;P Even the d.loaded manual has the spec sheet missing. I really need to know on the whole hd2+ or 2++ (whatever its gonna be called) thing... just as long as its not a wobulation chip

Actually, there is a spec sheet (and owners manual) in the HLRxx87W section in POST #1 at the top of this thread.

bhchan: LOL! NO, you are not chopped liver. You are a valued poster.

Let me state my question/ concern a little differently. For the lip sync issue:

1. Is the lip sync different from source to source? If so, the mid to high level HT audio gear can compenstate on a source to source basis, so it should not be an issue.

2. Is the lip sync different on material played from the same source? For example, do different DVDs played on the same DVD player exhibit different lip sync delays? This may be a much more difficult problem to work with a HT receiver.

3. Is the lip sync a combination of both 1 and 2, described above?

The actual Sammy chip sets are known or becoming known. Has anyone calculated/ determined how much time it actually takes to convert from the 480 to 720 or 1088 or whatever formats? I suspect that these parameters can be determined by some of the more knowledgable folks on this thread.

What I am trying to say is that there may be a small, maybe 2-3, set of delay values that will solve the lip sync problems, if there actually are problems.

If metrics have already been posted or if new ones are posted, maybe the numbers/ values can be place on post #1 so we can all find them.

After reviewing the HLR5087W spec sheet, I took the UNCONFIRMED off of the 2500:1 contrast ratio spec in POST #1. It is now confirmed. I also closed out the open question we had about the contrast ratio on the 87 series.

This is a test of underlined hyperlinks...

Google (http://www.google.com)

That wasn't so hard was it? :D

ah, missed the spec sheet there. I meant that the spec page in the d.loadable manual is missing. Looks like the link at the top there works though... rats still no detailed info on what chip this thing uses.. the fact that its 2500:1 makes me think its still the hd2+ which would be fine with me, i'll take that over one of the other chips though the hd2++ would have been nice

ah, missed the spec sheet there. I meant that the spec page in the d.loadable manual is missing. Looks like the link at the top there works though... rats still no detailed info on what chip this thing uses.. the fact that its 2500:1 makes me think its still the hd2+ which would be fine with me, i'll take that over one of the other chips though the hd2++ would have been nice

I think that it is 99% + likely that it is HD2+.

The only difference I can find between the HLPxx85 and the HLRxx87 (other than inputs - CC/ATSC added to the 87) is that in the Spec Sheet on the Samsung website for the 85 they refer to Gen4 light engine vs. on the specification tab for the 87 they use Gen5 light engine (however CR for both is 2500:1). As those of us who have spent time on the Samsung website know, don't trust much of what you see there (they make lots of mistakes). Whether there are any differences between the 85 and 87 other than the inputs remains open to question in my mind. :confused:

UCSB, I agree.

Got one question - if answered before sorry, but I actually read all pages and can't remember this / it is not Samsung unique issue so probably not here.

TV's with cable-cards - is it the reader in the tv that isn't capable of two-way communication or just the card? Basically if I buy the tv now and there is a new generation cards later will it work or will the tv not be capable due to wrong reader???

Both are not capable of two-way. So when the "next big thing" comes out...no dice.

Both are not capable of two-way. So when the "next big thing" comes out...no dice.

joe is right. However, I look at the bright side of this. Personally, I could care less about a two-way CC in my actual set, since I, like many here on AVSForum, use a DVR. What I want is a dual tuner, two-way CC in a TiVo, which, while a long way off, would be awesome.

I believe that a cable card that is available today is one way as it receives signals from the cable/satellite stream and then TV uses it. It cannot pull up a Menu back at the source and pull resources "On Demand" as the link is One Way only and it's believed it may take 1-2 yrs to make them 2-way. Two Way functions much like a DVR only your connecting to the Signal Providers database of available programming and services are "on Demand. I would guess it would take a collaboration between the signal sources and card developers to make them two-way in much the same way cable boxes have been done.

I would think that once 2-way are available they can become plug and play and cable or satellite will find a way to make money off it through installation fee's. They have to have a motivator to join and expedite it since once the card goes in you don't pay a box fee. I would guess that once they find a way that it'll turn higher profits the two way will find their way to market. There isn't alot of motivation if they aren't going to make money and a third party may not be able to join in as they control the rights to the push/pull of the signal across the card I believe. Otherwise it would sort of like those folks that buy Cable Boxes on Ebay thinking they are going to save money and pull their own signal only to discover it won't work with today's technology.

What we're seeing is most of the Card enabled systems ae including Menuing systems that'll work with the consumers DVR to fill that gap for on demand and according to most posts on this forum most people love using their DVR instead of On Demand services. I would guess we're 18 months away or further - the more money they can make on two way the faster it'll be brought to market. Based upon my experience in IT I would guess that the TV is a vessel that could receive an updated 2-way card without adjustment to the TV itself as the card becomes a miniature version of the Box - the TV doesn't care what the source of origin is only that's it's transmission meets the TV the same way it does with cable boxes. If they can make money off it we'll see it sooner than expected if they can't then DVR's and one way menu cards will dominate. :D

Thanks all for the replies - much appreciated

Anyone have any thoughts on whether there is an advantage of waiting 3-4 months before buying the x5067? I know that prices tend to go down, but I have read previously that high demand for this series of TVs may make the price actually increase. Also, any thoughts on how the release of the '1080' resolution Samsungs will affect the '67' series?

I know that prices tend to go down, but I have read previously that high demand for this series of TVs may make the price actually increase.
That sounds like a salesman's pitch. How can prices go up as competitive sets become available?

Anyone have any thoughts on whether there is an advantage of waiting 3-4 months before buying the x5067? I know that prices tend to go down, but I have read previously that high demand for this series of TVs may make the price actually increase. Also, any thoughts on how the release of the '1080' resolution Samsungs will affect the '67' series?



Sounds like some Retailer's BS. I wouldn't worry about prices going up on a 720P set. Prices on these sets will only be going DOWN as the year goes on and 1080P's become prevalent. As it is now, 720P sets are selling VERY poorly as more and more people are waiting for the 1080P sets or waiting for the anticipated drop in prices of 720P sets when 1080P's start hitting the street from many manufacturer's. As a matter of fact, it is thought that 1080P sets will be selling at well under the typical 15%-20% discount from MSRP by the fall as a half-dozen or so manufacturers try to capture market share bringing their 1080P sets to market. you can get a hint of this by seeing how out of whack Samsung MSRP's for their 1080P sets are compared to Toshiba and Mitsubishi's upcoming offerings. Plus Toshiba and Mitsubishi both are supposed to be higher quality sets with superior features, parts, and workmanship.

Also, don't forget the upcoming JVC D-ILA 1080P's, which stole the the show at the CES. They had the best PQ of all 1080P models shown excepting the Qualia's and to my eyes, the D-ILA 1080P's were VERY close to the Qualia's at 1/3 the price! Going to be a VERY NICE Fall/Winter season for big screen buyers. Have patience and don't overpay. Pick a reasonable price for a set that meets your needs and wait and bargain - the price will come to you.

Anyone have any thoughts on whether there is an advantage of waiting 3-4 months before buying the x5067? I know that prices tend to go down, but I have read previously that high demand for this series of TVs may make the price actually increase. Also, any thoughts on how the release of the '1080' resolution Samsungs will affect the '67' series?

Prices will continue in the downward direction for 720p sets. I wouldn't worry about high demand for the 5067. It is a high volume product and will be able to keep up. On the other hand, there are some really great deals on the 5067 right now. Say you could save 5% - 10% by waiting ... that would only be $125 - $250. That doesn't seem like much to me to justify waiting until the fall to buy.

isn't it difficult to see the difference between 720p and 1080p on the 50"s and smaller??

For those of you who don't read the PB thread everyday, Kirk with TVA has posted that the 1080P Power Buy will begin on Tuesday after the Holiday. Here is what he said:

Again, thank you for your patience- i realize we promised the 1080p powerbuy details awhile ago. There have been a number of delays and rather than keep promising "and day now.." I chose to hold off until we had more details. AVS Forum has the powerbuy details and have promised to post on Tuesday. While i know many of you want the information today, there have been an equal number of people who did request (because of the delay) that we not post over a weekend (especially a long holiday weekend). This will give everyone an equal opportunity to review the pricing and place a pre-order at the same time. A couple of things I will go ahead and share:

The 78 series will NOT be included in this PowerBuy.
Will we carry the 78 series? YES
Will there be a 78 series PowerBuy? YES
When will there be pricing available? We are STILL awaiting additional information from Sasmung and once we have it, we'll move forward.

How does the 68 series pricing compare to a comparably sized 67 series model? There's roughly a 15-20% delta between 720p & 1080p and this based upon our exisiting power buy pricing.

See you back here on Tuesday.

Have a safe & enjoyable Memorial Day!

Second message:

Clorox- thank you for putting up with us & the delays!

MikeAlletto (& everyone else) - here's the latest estimated shipping dates:

Samsung HL-R5688W – early June
Samsung HL-R5668W – middle to end of June
Samsung HL-R6168W – middle to end of June
Samsung HL-R6768W – middle to end of June

__________________
TV Authority
(888) 286-5353
http://www.tvauthority.com

All good news! :D

:D :D :D Wow ... only a 15 - 20% differential. Great!!!! :D :D :D

That sounds like a salesman's pitch. How can prices go up as competitive sets become available?Anything what the market will bear. :(

:D :D :D Wow ... only a 15 - 20% differential. Great!!!! :D :D :D

yeah. :(
for a 3k tv, that's only 600 bucks. *sadness* maybe I should've waited for the 68 instead of getting the 67.

yeah. :(
for a 3k tv, that's only 600 bucks. *sadness* maybe I should've waited for the 68 instead of getting the 67.

Talk to your retailer, maybe you can return it for an upgrade.

speaking of prices. no ones really explained why the msrp for the samsung hlr5087 is less than last years hlp5085... what gives? that was the main reason i was concerned the chip would be the cheaper hd3 or something

speaking of prices. no ones really explained why the msrp for the samsung hlr5087 is less than last years hlp5085... what gives? that was the main reason i was concerned the chip would be the cheaper hd3 or something

Prices drop about 15% a year on these HDTVs. The trend will continue.

HELP!!!

Just got my DVI-HDMI cable from RAM and my SA 3250HD STB says:

"Your HDTV does not support HDCP. Please use the YPrPb component connection to watch TV"

???????????? I thought the HLR supported HDCP ???

I thought the HLR supported HDCP ???
It does.

Try turning on your TV and then wait for the image to appear before you turn on the STB. That should help you get a good handshake. Also be sure that your STB is set to output to DVI. Some of them have to have DVI turned on.

isn't it difficult to see the difference between 720p and 1080p on the 50"s and smaller??
Depends on how close you sit. At 2x screen size maybe not. At 1.5 screen size then it will be noticible. At my seating distance I can make out the pixel structure on 50" 720P sets so I am going to go for 1080P, even in a 50".

Does anyone know the significance of the 66 designation in the HL-R4266, vs. the 67 in the HL-R4667 and larger screen sets? It's grouped with them in first page of this thread, and nothing i've read specifically indicates that it uses different technology.

Will there be a HL-R4268 1080p set coming this summer. I've only seens specs for 46" and larger sets.

If course, if the answer to my 2nd question is 'no', I can suppose it's that has to do with the idea I've seen expressed in this or another thread, that the difference would no be visible on that small a screen. Maybe not, though I certainly need all 1920x1200 on my 23" computer monitor. I would think it might not make a difference for viewing 720p HD content, but seems like once 1080p content becomes available, it would be worth having the higher res set.

Does anyone know the significance of the 66 designation in the HL-R4266, vs. the 67 in the HL-R4667 and larger screen sets?

Actually, there are some differences and I should have made them apparent in POST #1. Working from memory, the screen on the 42" is slightly different. I'll research the differences and update POST #1 soon.

Will there be a HL-R4268 1080p set coming this summer. I've only seens specs for 46" and larger sets.

No ... the smallest 1080p set coming this summer is the 50" HLR5078W. All of the remaining sets will be 56" or larger.

To answer my own first question, in case anyone else is interested:
(see complee article at: http://nytimes.com.com/Samsung_HL_R4667W/4505-6484_7-31307908-2.html?tag=top )

"The 42-inch HL-R4266W ($2,500 list) has the most basic feature set of the series. It lacks the fine-pitch screen that the larger sets use, so its image may be slightly less sharp. Its connectivity is highlighted by an HDMI port, but it doesn't have the computer and FireWire inputs of its larger cousins."

Caveat: This article is based on manufacturer's specs They didn't actually review the sets, so while it is probabaly true that the the 4266 lacks a 'fine-pitch screen', the 'may be slightly less sharp' bit, is informed speculation.

I saw the 5067 at BB tonight, and liked the image quality, but based upon this, can't assume that the 4266 will be equivalent.

I saw the 5067 at BB tonight, and liked the image quality, but based upon this, can't assume that the 4266 will be equivalent.

I've update POST #1 to clarify the differences between the 4266 and the xx67 models.

People that have seen the 4266 have reported that it looked nice.

I apologize if this has been covered somewhere else in these 120 or so pages but I could not find it so I'll post for others that simply cannot read 120 pages as an update. I came across a side by side comparison review done by TI of Samsung 6768 against the Q006 and the Sammy came out pretty damn good at less than half the price - good news for those of us with a budget and the Sam came out very well when connected to a PC.

This Posting is not to say it's better than Q006 but comparable and extremely impressive as the reviewer stated. I only posted this as many of us are prepping to pull the trigger on these 1080P's and to help reinforce our decisions.

http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/ISEO-rgbtcspd/reviews/20050510/he2005_show_report.html?page=2 :D

I have been following this thread for many months. Thanks to everyone for their contributions - especially UCSB.

I am ready to bite the bullet this summer and buy a 1080p HDTV. I have posted a list of equipment for my first Home Theater in the "Home Entertainment & Theater Builder Topic" - "Dedicated Theater Design & Construction" thread called "My 1st HT - HDTV I don't want to screw it up!!!".

EDIT: It was suggeted that I put my post in the wrong thread so I also posted it in this thread. Sorry for the double post. :o

If anyone has the time, please feel free to critique my post with suggestions or questions.

Thanks again to everyone who has contributed information to this thread for many months. This thread has been very helpful. :)

Hi, I have a limited space for a tv, but I can fit a 50" model if it hangs over the edge of my entertainment center approximately 2 1/2". Are these tvs very front heavy? Maybe I could bolt on some metal braces that would help support the weight up front...any thoughts or suggestions??

BTW- My entertainment center is built into my wall, and the walls stick out about 3" further then my entertainment center, so the tv wouldn't look too bad I think.

The latest price scan shows the latest HLR 50" attainable for as low as $1999!!! Many 'reputable' places between $2100 - $2400.

Prices keep dropping like panites in a brothel....

I just wanted to give anyone looking for a short / narrow stand a heads up. Onkyo makes a combo stand / speaker that is 17" Tall and 47" Wide (Onkyo CBSP 1200). This is the only available stand I have found that meats my requirements of being <=18" Tall and <= 54" Wide. You can find it at Onkyo's website or google. Its styling appears to be compatable with the 78 series (glossy black).

There is a definite lack of stands in this size range so when I found it I thought others may be interested as well. I don't know how good the speaker is but Onkyo is known to make some fairly good speakers.

I am still looking into a custom stand since it doesn't meet all my requirements although it is the best I have seen for my needs.

According to the spec sheet for the HL-R**78W series, "Currently HDMI, DVI, and component inputs can only accept up to 1080i signals.all 1080i signals are converted to 1080p. Off air 1080p signals are displayed in their broadcast format."

The link to this URL can be found above under spec sheets.

If someone can enlighten us to what this last sentence means...

"Off air 1080p signals are displayed in their broadcast format."

It would be much appreciated.

If someone can enlighten us to what this last sentence means...

"Off air 1080p signals are displayed in their broadcast format."

It would be much appreciated.
Over The Air > You know, that funny thing everyone had on their roofs for free TV. It captures signals right out of the air without using a satellite or cable company connection. :)

Of course we will have to wait for Over The Air broadcasts to be done in 1080p sometime way out in the future. :o

Over The Air > You know, that funny thing everyone used to have on their roofs for free TV. It captures signals right out of the air without using a satellite or cable company connection. :)

Of course we will have to wait for Over The Air broadcasts to be done in 1080p sometime way out in the future. :o

"Over The Air" and "Off Air" mean the same thing?

Are you trying to say that of all the connections on the back of the set the ONLY one capable of accepting a 1080p input is the coaxial RF connection? That is pretty wacky. They can't afford to put in a HDMI receiver that accepts a digital 1080p input signal but they can afford expensive A to D converters in the over air receiver that can convert an analog signgal.

I don't think 1080p will ever (EVER) be broadcast. There just isn't enough bandwidth, we will all be getting 4320p signals over IP long before that ever happens. I call BS

Doesn't the VGA input accept 1080P?

I was just reading post 1 over again and noticed the IEEE 1394 comment and whether or not it will carry 1080p. Now I'm not sure at all on the 1080p part. However this got me thinking. If we can send video over firewire as well, then that essentially opens up 2 more ports for digital connectivity. I know my DVD player has IEEE 1394 in it... so this will open up more slots for me to use :D

Yay.

- D

IIRC, the IEEE 1394 protocol does not have the bandwidth to carry full 1080p @ 60 hz video signal. However, it can carry MPEG 1080p @ 24 fps (a compressed format) that is used by folks to record HDTV and to show movies, etc. pre-recorded in that high def digital video tape format (that I know nothing about).

Aren't the IEEE 1394 in DVD players for audio? I know the Denon 3910 IEEE 1394 port is for audio only.

Yep, when I first started looking into HDTV in Feb, I thought that IEEE-1394 was only for audio. It was only after lurking in other forums that I found out about video usage, specifically with digital video tape recorders. Digital camcorders now come with IEEE-1394 ports so they can be connected directly to TV's and computers with IEEE-1394 ports. (Now that Apple is no longer charging for use of the their trademark, most times you see "Firewire" instead of IEEE-1394.) I do not know whether/how it is used for other HD digital video formats.

For those wanting a limit, quick review of various connections used for AV, I found this link useful: http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/specsformats/audiovideoconnections.php

BTW, I just saw a thread where a poster considered Denon Link (proprietary version of IEEE-1394) useless because he said it only worked with other Denon Link equipped devices, implying it was not compatible with the non-Denon IEEE-1394 protocol. At this time, I have not seen any one dispute this point. FWIW.

OTOH, the neat thing about Denon Link is that if you have both a Denon Link equipped DVD player and receiver, you can now run all of the high definition and multi-channel sound formats over a single cable.

(Edited to include comment on camcorders and link to Audioholics.)

HLRXX68
HLRXX78
Has anyone confirmed a delivery date or est. # of units to be received by BB, Tweeter, Magnolia, etc?
I dropped by a local BB to see if they had any new info on the 1080p. The sales person said they already had them as he pointed to a 6163. :confused:

On a side note, for a DVD player with HDMI being connected directly to a TV with HDMI, am I still able to route the optical audio to my pre/pro? Or by using the HDMI, does it typically disable the optical audio out? (If needed, I will be using one of the Sammy 1080i DVD players).
I know that HDMI carries both audio and video, but naturally, I would rather use my floor standing speakers not the TV speakers while taking advantage of the video upconversion from DVD to TV.

Thanks.

On a side note, for a DVD player with HDMI being connected directly to a TV with HDMI, am I still able to route the optical audio to my pre/pro?

Yes.

Talked to Samsung on Friday and they said my HLR5688 should be out in the next couple of weels so I guess you guys should expect to see them in the stores soon.

I've read a Toshiba news release that they are using the new xHD4 1080p chip in their new 1080p DLP's. I wonder if Samsung is doing the same...

All the 1080P DLPs from LG, Mitsubishi, Toshiba, and Samsung are using the same chip. That is the only 1080P chip. The xHD3 chip was never used in a production model.

Well I guess that settles it...I'm waiting for a HL-R6168W (internet, TVA, BB or CC) or the HL-R6178W (local tv/appliance store) whichever gives me a good price/warranty combo...

So today is the day we find out 68 Series PB pricing?

"Over The Air" and "Off Air" mean the same thing?

Are you trying to say that of all the connections on the back of the set the ONLY one capable of accepting a 1080p input is the coaxial RF connection? That is pretty wacky. They can't afford to put in a HDMI receiver that accepts a digital 1080p input signal but they can afford expensive A to D converters in the over air receiver that can convert an analog signgal.

I don't think 1080p will ever (EVER) be broadcast. There just isn't enough bandwidth, we will all be getting 4320p signals over IP long before that ever happens. I call BS

All sets marketed as HDTV (the ones with built-in digital tuners) must decode all ATSC format signals including 1080p by CEA guidelines. Note that this is only 24fps 1080p. There is no A to D conversion involved. The signal is digital all the way. That said, I am not aware of any broadcasters broadcasting 1080p.

A to D conversion is required for all non-digital inputs, i.e. analog RF, composite video, super video, component video, and RGB.

Robert

I've updated POST #1 confirming the HD2+ in the HLR5087W pedestal model. I've also close our open issue on the DLP chip used in the 5087. There was no surprise here, but it just took us awhile to get confirmation from an owner ... thanks chris7469.

All sets marketed as HDTV (the ones with built-in digital tuners) must decode all ATSC format signals including 1080p by CEA guidelines. Note that this is only 24fps 1080p. There is no A to D conversion involved. The signal is digital all the way. That said, I am not aware of any broadcasters broadcasting 1080p.

A to D conversion is required for all non-digital inputs, i.e. analog RF, composite video, super video, component video, and RGB.


Of course you are right about the A to D conversion, it must have been a LONG weekend for me :) I got a picture of a coaxial antenna wire in my mind and that translated to everything I know about broadcast TV which, of course is wrong. Still seems that it would be easier to take in one 1080p signal off a dedicated wire than to tune in a single channel from a shared broadcast medium.

The 24fps 1080p makes more sense than requiring 60fps, the former requiring less bandwidth than 1080i60 while the latter would require twice as much. On the other hand due to our neat tricks (3:2 pulldown) can't 1080i60 send a 1080p24 signal with just about zero loss so what is the point of requiring 1080p24 or broadcasting it?

Someone mentioned that the VGA input accepts 1080p60 do we know this for sure yet?

The preliminary manual for the HLR5688 indicates that the VGA input will accept 1920x1080 at 60Hz. See post #1 for a link to the preliminary manual.

Just received the HLR5067w - what color settings are you using out there? I know settings vary but would like an idea- the factory settings are awful

Setting for HLP series would be o.k. also

:confused: So it's Tuesday afternoon - where is the pricing and timelines we were promised Friday because half the people wanted to wait? I find that hard to swallow - we wait around for over 5 months as a few people want to wait so the rest of us wait? What business operates in that manner? Early bird gets the Worm!

Well, the other half and I suspect 90+% or more wanted it Friday, why the wait? We've been waiting since January CES and we get a teaser Friday that a few wanted to wait? What are they VIP's so the rest of us wait? What is this Sotheby's auction house?

Sorry but I do not understand the reasoning behind teasing us with the info Friday and making us wait for another 3 days and here we are Tuesday and the data has not been posted. I mean if the data entry person had to go off on vacation and wasn't available be honest but because a few people said they wanted to wait until they went and ate burgers/dogs and waved the flag over the weekend what kind of excuse is that? Teasing us on Friday and then not posting on Tuesday as promised is not a good start. :cool:

:confused: So it's Tuesday afternoon - where is the pricing and timelines we were promised Friday because half the people wanted to wait? I find that hard to swallow - we wait around for over 5 months as a few people want to wait so the rest of us wait? What business operates in that manner? Early bird gets the Worm!

Well, the other half and I suspect 90+% or more wanted it Friday, why the wait? We've been waiting since January CES and we get a teaser Friday that a few wanted to wait? What are they VIP's so the rest of us wait? What is this Sotheby's auction house?

Sorry but I do not understand the reasoning behind teasing us with the info Friday and making us wait for another 3 days and here we are Tuesday and the data has not been posted. I mean if the data entry person had to go off on vacation and wasn't available be honest but because a few people said they wanted to wait until they went and ate burgers/dogs and waved the flag over the weekend what kind of excuse is that? Teasing us on Friday and then not posting on Tuesday as promised is not a good start. :cool:


Par for the course, it seems. They typically reneg or are very late to the party on 90% of the stuff they promise to do on this forum: weekly updates on sales, pricing, info, etc. Hopefully, they run their business with much more conscienciousness and reliabilty than they conduct themselves on this forum:)

I thought TVA had released the data to AVSforum for posting and that we were waiting on AVSforum to update the info at the top of the powerbuy thread. At any rate, have a little patience and faith. I'm sure everyone is doing their best. I'm as anxious as everyone to see the pricing. TVA has been very helpful in getting us critical data on the new sets over the months since CES. I can not think of any other online retailer that offers the terms and protection of TVA's powerbuys.

The details were finalized several days ago and we are being told by the powers that be that they will be posted shortly.

The samsung 1080p models are listed on their avs forum members only page now. I just put my preorder in for a 6168! The price is A LOT lower than I was anticipating. Excellent! Now I wait.

Add it to your cart, it'll show the price then.

Say if some daring individual didn't care about the details of voiding one's warranty, I'd bet an HLR set could be dismantled enough to see what kind of friggen chip from TI is in there (HD3, HD3+, HD2+, etc).

Say if some daring individual didn't care about the details of voiding one's warranty, I'd bet an HLR set could be dismantled enough to see what kind of friggen chip from TI is in there (HD3, HD3+, HD2+, etc).

Not neccessary, just go to POST #1 in this thread ... the DLP chip for each model is listed. ;)

But the chip numbers are unconfirmed, right? I thought TI and Samsung were hush hush on chip identities.

The price is A LOT lower than I was anticipating. Excellent!

I agree ... the pricing is much better than I expected. Thankfully, it looks like everyone is not going to have to pay a new technology / product price premium. :) :) :)

But the chip numbers are unconfirmed, right? I thought TI and Samsung were hush hush on chip identities.

It is true that they have not wanted to talk about the chips and that they have not released any new names in the xHDxx format. They are currently using generic names like .85" 1080p. Don't worry, whatever you want to call it, we have done enough research to confirm that these models are using the latest 2005 chips. I think xHD4, HD4, and HD2+ will work for us in 2005. When 2006 rolls around, hopefully TI and Samsung will be talking about chips again.

Par for the course, it seems. They typically reneg or are very late to the party on 90% of the stuff they promise to do on this forum: weekly updates on sales, pricing, info, etc. Hopefully, they run their business with much more conscienciousness and reliabilty than they conduct themselves on this forum:)In the end you will receive the set of your choice and at the best possible price...they are a excellent company...they have always come through...remember they a dealing with 100's of us AVS video fanatics...not a easy task to do...I purchased a HLP6163 during the last Powerbuy and it was delivered on time and $700 cheaper than BB, CC and Tweeter...matter of fact I was watching my HLP6163 3 weeks before any B/M received them...you really can't go wrong with TVA...so go order your set and relax...you will be happy. :D

Don't know if this type of info has been posted yet, but the 68 / 78 series sets are due to arrive here in Washington on June 10th. I can't name the store, but the quantities are small for the first shipment. Only 5 each of the 6168 and 6178.

Thanks for th eupdate hifisponge.

I just pre-orderd from TVA and have a projected ship date of 6/14 for the 5668.

Samsung is coming through on release dates this year it seems! :)

Thanks for th eupdate hifisponge.

I just pre-orderd from TVA and have a projected ship date of 6/14 for the 5668.

Samsung is coming through on release dates this year it seems! :)

How do you find the proposed ship date? I just put a pre-order in on a 5668? :cool:

I agree ... the pricing is much better than I expected. Thankfully, it looks like everyone is not going to have to pay a new technology / product price premium. :) :) :)

I guess the MSRPs of new Toshiba 1080p etc must have forced Samsung to lower their price to retailers.

The only thing that has me somewhat concerned though is that schaffer970 has not told us he found 68 series FCC approvals yet....?

(edit: typo)

I have hovering between the HLR5078W and HLR5668W. Without being a troll or anything, when do we expect TVA to have prices for the 78s? I would like to support them (as they support AVSForum) and would like to take advantage of the powerbuy, but am getting anxious for a new television.

Ed_Newt- First of all, thanks for wanting to support a forum sponsor ( we appreciate the member support). We are still awaiting some details regarding the 78 series but once allocation & pricing is confirmed, we will launch the power buy for these also.

For those of us who are unable to lift, let alone drag the set from the front door to the tv room...off hand, does anyone know if TVA has arrangements for the set to be brought in to the home and placed on the tv stand?

Ed, give them a call. I'm sure that something can be worked out with the shipper. In my experience the folks at TVA will do what it takes.

Ed_Newt- First of all, thanks for wanting to support a forum sponsor ( we appreciate the member support). We are still awaiting some details regarding the 78 series but once allocation & pricing is confirmed, we will launch the power buy for these also.

I do hope that the 68 and 78 power buys will overlap so that I am not foreclosed from one by waiting for the other.

schaffer970,

Thanks.

I'm gonna try and bribe the delivery guy. Its only 94lbs and I'll have everything set. I only need help lifting it onto a stand.

Ed_Newt- First of all, thanks for wanting to support a forum sponsor ( we appreciate the member support). We are still awaiting some details regarding the 78 series but once allocation & pricing is confirmed, we will launch the power buy for these also.

Pardon the ignorance. I can now pre-order a 6168 at TVauthority? I tried the web sit and didn't find it. What is a power buy? What's the current price? I'm ready to pre-order. Thanks.

Pardon the ignorance. I can now pre-order a 6168 at TVauthority? I tried the web sit and didn't find it. What is a power buy? What's the current price? I'm ready to pre-order. Thanks.
There is a link pasted to the top of the list of threads in this forum. Here it is again.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=523596

In that thread there is a link to the "member's" page at TVA.

There is a link pasted to the top of the list of threads in this forum. Here it is again.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=523596

In that thread there is a link to the "member's" page at TVA.


Thanks. I just pre-ordered a 6168.

Thanks. I just pre-ordered a 6168.
Please ask TVA to send my finder's fee to:

HTWaits
General Delivery
Palo Alto, California

Enjoy. :D

You Punks! I have to wait until like July for my TV due to financial reasons... Once I've heard word that a few people physically have the 6168 in their hands I'll contact my dealer on pricings.

- D

Man I just saw the HLR 67 series sets in Circuit City and Sears. I was far from impressed with the black levels. I was really holding out for the 6168, and this has dashed my hopes of it being "the" set for me. I don't know how much to judge them due to bad calibration and signals, but sheesh, I expected a lot better...

[udson']Man I just saw the HLR 67 series sets in Circuit City and Sears. I was far from impressed with the black levels. I was really holding out for the 6168, and this has dashed my hopes of it being "the" set for me. I don't know how much to judge them due to bad calibration and signals, but sheesh, I expected a lot better...

The CR of the 68 series is supposed to be much higher than the 67 series, so it's possible you may be happier with it. Also, the 61" models aren't as bright as the smaller models, so that may have something to do with perceived contrast.

The little boy with a credit card in me wants to preorder a 6168, but I think I'm going to have to wait until I can actually see one and hear other people's experiences with owning one...

[udson']Man I just saw the HLR 67 series sets in Circuit City and Sears. I was far from impressed with the black levels. I was really holding out for the 6168, and this has dashed my hopes of it being "the" set for me. I don't know how much to judge them due to bad calibration and signals, but sheesh, I expected a lot better...

Hudson ... you should go out and take a second look. Are there any higher-end retailers in the Orlando area? Out here in the San Francisco area we have Magnolia HiFi ... a very nice store and great viewing environment. It's worth a second look, black levels should have been acceptable on the 67 series. :)

I suppose I should go find some other retailers, and high-end ones as you suggest.

I just invested a lot of cash into my projector system, getting the Klipsch RF-7 line, so maybe this experience will just make me wait for 1080p sets...and be able to save up again. :)

I'd just like to be able to walk into any dealer and be impressed, you know? So tired of all the contributing factors. Shopping has never been so complicated...

[udson']I'd just like to be able to walk into any dealer and be impressed, you know? So tired of all the contributing factors.
At Sears and BB? :p

At Sears and BB? :p

Um, yeah. Otherwise known as "contributing factors". :rolleyes:

68 vs 78 Case Designs...

I am weighing the 68 versus the 78 series based on aesthetics (since that's the only difference). I've seen the 68's floating screen design on the 720p models now available at Best Buy, etc. I like that design, but I still prefer my old HLN Tantus's thin bezel design. From the CES pictures, it looks like the 78's case is a black lacquer frame with the same angled "aluminum look" bezel that my HLN Tantus has - is this correct? While the 78 series loses the thin bezel, I still like the aluminum-look trim. Still a bit worried the black lacquer will be too shiny, though... Can anyone compare the 78's case to the old Tantus models?

Now that I have a 5668 ordered I started thinking seriously about connecting my components and wanted your advice...

Bose 321 GS Series II DVD / Pseudo Surround Sound System:

I got this as a Christmas present from my Mother, I wouldn't have picked it but didn't want to hastle with returning and possibly setting up a quality surround sound system on a limited budget (I was waiting but got pushed) And since it sounds infinitely better than TV speakers I am happy with it for now, at least unitl HDMI catches on and I can afford good speakers.

This has no good video inputs (S-Video only) and one component video out which will go to my TV. I won't be getting an HDMI DVD until the HD-DVD / BluRay thing is in full swing.

Several Digital Audio inputs (one optical the rest coax)

Sony 400 Disc DVD changer:

This will occupy my other component video out on the TV. I can output audio to the Bose box. This box will remain until I can afford Hard disk space to throw all my DVDs on a HTPC (and use aforementioned HD-DVD BluRay player for other discs)

Playstation 2:

Will eventually be replaced by a PS3 but for now I suppose I should be using Component output to the TV (OH OH already out of hookups!) Right now I am funneling 3 components through an S-Video manual switch.

Is there a good component video switch preferably with remote that I can program a Harmony remote (to be purchased soon after TV) to control available?

Audio can go via optical to the Bose box.

Gamecube:

Another Component hookup to TV (right now S-Video) I am not sure about Audio, either RCA or digital to Bose, not sure.

That is all my current components. Eventually there will be a DirecTV TiVo once the whole Mpeg4 switchover happens. That will take up one HDMI. The other will go towards an HD-DVD / BluRay player (possibly PS3) until an HDMI switching Receiver is available to replace the Evil Bose Box.

Any Comments / Suggestions / Ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

John

Forgive me for my frankness, but I'm not impressed with the new Sammy sets. Before I say what I have to say, know that I really wanted to like them. I’m very interested in replacing the large Toshiba CRT RPTV I currently own and the styling, size, technology and price are all there with the xx67 Samsungs, but I was expecting better picture quality and build quality.

So here goes. Last week I went to Magnolia and another local retailer that carries the new 67 series. I also went to look at them again today. The first time I took about 30 mins just looking at all of the RPTVs on display, but I didn't attempt to adjust the PQ of any of them. Today I spent about the same time viewing, but also attempted to adjust the PQ the best I could. In the end I still came away with the same impression. There is a hazy, slightly washed out quality to picture, the shadow detail is marginal, there is a good degree of "artifacting" (a splotchy quality to the picture), and the color looks a bit less saturated than I like.

What surprised me the most is that even though DLP is supposed to be the king of contrast in microdisplay technology, no matter how I adjusted the 5667 on display at the store, I could not get it to look as good as the Sony LCD it was sitting next to. Yes, an LCD, which is supposed to be the worst for CR.

Here's the kicker. I am almost certain that the hazey, slightly washed-out quality of the 5667 is due to the actual screen its self. To verify this I turned the 5667 off, along with the Sony next to it. The Sony screen looked ink black, whereas the Sammy looked a hazy dark gray. Yes, the lighting over the two sets was the same. Of course this is a disappointment, but what bothers me more is that even though the new xx68 series are supposed to have remarkable CR, I think the screen will be the limiting factor. Bummer. I suppose in a darkened living room the screen would pose less of a problem, but I have a feeling it would still look a bit hazy.

The screen was only part of the problem I saw with the rendition of dark images and blacks. The shop had the local news running in HD on all of the sets. One of the anchormen was wearing a black pinstripe suit. The thing is, I didn’t know it was a pinstripe suit until I looked at the Sony, a KDF-55XS955, if you are wondering. No biggie, I figured I would just adjust the brightness and contrast on the Sammy to dial in the shadow detail. No matter what I did, I couldn’t get the pinstripes to be clearly visible.

As I compared and analyzed the picture of several of the sets I also started to notice that the Samsungs were emphasizing the compression artifacts of the digital signal more so than the rest. The result was a picture that looked splotchy. Granted, this probably wouldn’t be a big issue if viewing the set from 10 feet, but other sets handle this better.

There isn’t much more I can say about the color on the 5667. It just looked slightly less saturated and less accurate than the Sony. The one thing holding the Sony back was the infamous screen door effect. The pixel structure on the set was noticeable from as far away as 5 feet from the screen.

The last concern I have with the new Sammys is the build quality of the cabinet. Virtually all TV cabinets are made of plastic, but the back of 5667 was the flimsiest of the sets I looked at, including Toshiba, Sony, and JVC. What does it matter if the back of the TV is flimsy? Well, as an audiophile I don’t want anything vibrating that shouldn’t be. I know from experience that the light plastic shell of the TV will resonate at certain frequencies and muck up the sound. The Toshiba I currently own does just this. Being the audio perfectionist that I am, I actually went to the extent of covering the back of the Toshiba with sound dampening material used in mobile audio. Works great, but I don’t want to have to do it again.

So there you have it. Let the flames begin . . . :D

68 vs 78 Case Designs...

I am weighing the 68 versus the 78 series based on aesthetics (since that's the only difference). I've seen the 68's floating screen design on the 720p models now available at Best Buy, etc. I like that design, but I still prefer my old HLN Tantus's thin bezel design. From the CES pictures, it looks like the 78's case is a black lacquer frame with the same angled "aluminum look" bezel that my HLN Tantus has - is this correct? While the 78 series loses the thin bezel, I still like the aluminum-look trim. Still a bit worried the black lacquer will be too shiny, though... Can anyone compare the 78's case to the old Tantus models?

Since there is a Best Buy in your area, you can see a close facsimile of the new 78 series there. My Best Buy has Samsung plasma displays and they use the same design as the new 78 series. Same black lacquer bezel, silver grille, silver bezel and other styling elements. It is virtually an exact duplicate.

I own a Samsung Tantus model. The aluminum bezel seems to be a very different effect than the silver plastic bezel/frame that surrounds the 78 series. The frame is about the same size and shape as the Tantus bezel, but the overall effect is just different. I went down to Best Buy and looked at the plasma a number of times. The Tantus styling is really unique and different from both the 68 and 78 series. I like both the 68 and 78 series.

Just ordered my 6168 (gulp). How important is it to use a calibration DVD to finetune these sets? Or can I just play around with it and get a good picture?

Extended warranties: You have up to a year to buy one, correct?

Just ordered my 6168 (gulp). How important is it to use a calibration DVD to finetune these sets? Or can I just play around with it and get a good picture?

Avia and Digital Video Essentials are good investments. You don't need both if you are trying to economize. They are very inexpensive and can help you adjust BOTH your HDTV and audio system. DVE can be purchased for under $20.

You can get a picture that will look OK to you by just using the manual controls, but the HDTV and audio system may be underperforming.

Sponge,

Glad you mentioned that about the 5667. I was in CC this weekend and thought the same thing, but tried to rationalize it as just being a store setting. However what you wrote is pretty much what I thought.

It was right next to a Sony 50WE655 LCD that the pq was much more vivid, true and sharp. DLP is supposed to be a brighter picture, but it was not anywhere like the Sony.

So perhaps the 68 series of Samy's might be better? We'll have to just see it in person regardless of what is written.

For those of you that are going to purchase in the next few days (weeks?), what are you going to do about getting an extended warranty?

Your thoughts, both pro and con, would be appreciated.

I have had an HLR4667 for 3 weeks and I had a problem over the weekend that has since gone away.

When I started the unit, it displayed a brief (2-3 seconds) moving screen, then froze for a couple of seconds, then restarted itself and repeated the same sequence. I had to unplug the unit to shut it off. It would not respond to either the remote or any of the buttons on the box. This pattern repeated even when the unit had been unplugged for several hours.

On Tuesday afternoon, after scheduling a repair visit, I tried one more time and the problem went away.

Anyone else experience a similar problem? I have not cancelled the repair visit, should I have them come anyway to run diagnostics?

what are you going to do about getting an extended warranty?Who is coming out to your house is the BIG question. Call around first before you buy. Be sure SOMEONE will honor the claim through the warranty company!

I just demo'ed two 'R' series Sammy's and it was obvious that the soft look of the HD3 is carried over to the HD4. One was a 50" the other was a 56". Not sure if I like the 'floating' design especially with that silver speaker bezel, but ay least the speakers aren't on the side. Cranking the sharpness up full didn't really make a whole lot of difference. For those that like the 'film' look should be pleased with these.

I was able to hook up my HD signal generator to both this and the JVC at a local Sears. I was surprised at the 'convergence like' error in the red channel around the corners. I thought JVC had the market on CA, but apparently they don't. It wasn't bad and at normal viewing distances it isn't noticeable. Possible with B&W material it might be, but nothing serious. I just wanted to point that out since it was a surprise to me. The top multiburst packet (13.5 MHz) was rolled off somewhat probably due to the wobulating technology. It wasn't with the JVC. The JVC did introduce noise in the staristep pattern where the Sammy didn't.
I wasn't able to pull in the locals (from 6 miles away) from inside the store with a 'Silver Sensor' (with a price of $40 no less) which surprised me, so I wasn't able to test the ATSC tuner. The price they had wasn't too far from TVA's price and I'm sure I could of had them match it.

$1k less than what the 'N' was selling for a year ago and this has the ATSC/QAM tuner. :o

There is a link pasted to the top of the list of threads in this forum. Here it is again.

xxxx

In that thread there is a link to the "member's" page at TVA.


I get a message saying I don't have authority to get to the powerbuy thread.

I just completed my registration to avsforum. Is there a grace period or some other thing I'm supposed to do to get to that thread?

Did you check the box that says your are a member of AVS?

New thread for PB. Old one is gone.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5699694#post5699694

Well, as an audiophile I don’t want anything vibrating that shouldn’t be. I know from experience that the light plastic shell of the TV will resonate at certain frequencies and muck up the sound. The Toshiba I currently own does just this. Being the audio perfectionist that I am, I actually went to the extent of covering the back of the Toshiba with sound dampening material used in mobile audio. Works great, but I don’t want to have to do it again.
Am I understanding you correctly? You use the TV's sound system? :confused:

By the way, if you happen to go back to the Redmond store ask for Will (the manager) and tell him Les from Palo Alto said, "Hi."

Am I understanding you correctly? You use the TV's sound system? :confused:

No, I think he is just saying that he is playing stuff so loud that random junk (including his TV) starts vibrating.

<THX: Abe Simpson> TURN IT UP! </THX>

Be careful your head don't explode...

Since there is a Best Buy in your area, you can see a close facsimile of the new 78 series there. My Best Buy has Samsung plasma displays and they use the same design as the new 78 series. Same black lacquer bezel, silver grille, silver bezel and other styling elements. It is virtually an exact duplicate.

Thanks, I'll check it out. I really wish Samsung had kept the Tantus design for the new sets, it's the best looking TV design on the market (or previously on the market, at least) IMHO. I like black with the minimal aluminum bezel - I am not a big fan of grey, or silver plastic speaker grille. Oh well, I guess i can give up a bit on aesthetics for a kickass 1080p picture :)

The AVS thread for TVA's power buys seems to still be at the top of the thread list for this forum.

The first message has this link to the AVS members area at TVA.

http://www.tvauthority.com/avs-members-only.asp

The first page that is displayed requires that you check a box indicating that you are an AVS member.

It all seems to be working fine.

No, I think he is just saying that he is playing stuff so loud that random junk (including his TV) starts vibrating.
Like the windows? :eek:

Thanks, I'll check it out. I really wish Samsung had kept the Tantus design for the new sets, it's the best looking TV design on the market (or previously on the market, at least) IMHO. I like black with the minimal aluminum bezel - I am not a big fan of grey, or silver plastic speaker grille. Oh well, I guess i can give up a bit on aesthetics for a kickass 1080p picture :)

I think a lot of people agree (I know I do) luckily the larger set will still fit in my spot so I will make do, although another inch and I would have to stick with the thin bezel or, imagine the thought, settle for a smaller set!

I really wish Samsung had kept the Tantus design for the new sets, it's the best looking TV design on the market (or previously on the market, at least) IMHO.

I have the 5674W and actually don't like the cabinet design. I have it built into a wall and the bottom grill just seems too big in comparison to the rest of the cabinet. I happen to like the floating design a lot more since it breaks up the bottom better. I also liked the HLN series more since the bottom grill was much smaller with those. In the end, it's all a matter of what appeals to you.

Videobruce,
What does CA stand for and what does it mean in reference to JVC's and convergence? Thanks in advance, WolfpackRon.

I've added brightness and lamp specs to the 68 series section of POST #1. These numbers are based on the 78 series data. I didn't have data for the 67" HLR6768W, so I estimated values. Hopefully, someone will find the 68 series brochure when it is released and we can confirm the numbers.

I did a search and did see your lamp specs but was not clear as to whether the 67 inch 68 series would be brighter than my current Mits 62725. As you know one of the complaints about the large Mits and early large Samsungs (hlM617) was that they were not bright enough.

I will be buying only the larger dlps so if someone could give me a theoretical view of how the Samsung brightness compares based on specs I would appreciate it.

I did a search and did see your lamp specs but was not clear as to whether the 67 inch 68 series would be brighter than my current Mits 62725. As you know one of the complaints about the large Mits and early large Samsungs (hlM617) was that they were not bright enough.

I will be buying only the larger dlps so if someone could give me a theoretical view of how the Samsung brightness compares based on specs I would appreciate it.

Hopefully, your Mits owners manual will have a specs page with brightness listed. If so, compare the spec to these values for the 68 / 78 series:

Brightness (cd/m-sq): 71"=500, 61"=600, 56"=700, 50"=800
Lamp (Standard/Dynamic Display Setting): 71"=(120W/132W); 50", 56", 61"=(100W/120W)

Brightness (cd/m-sq): 67"=525 (estimate), 61"=600, 56"=700
Lamp (Standard/Dynamic Display Setting): 67"=(120W/132W -- estimated); 56", 61"=(100W/120W)

I did a search and did see your lamp specs but was not clear as to whether the 67 inch 68 series would be brighter than my current Mits 62725. As you know one of the complaints about the large Mits and early large Samsungs (hlM617) was that they were not bright enough.

I will be buying only the larger dlps so if someone could give me a theoretical view of how the Samsung brightness compares based on specs I would appreciate it.

This is a very relevant question to pursue. Note that for the xx78 series, the 71" set has a 120 w lamp, while the 50", 56", and 61" all have a 100 w one.

This is a very relevant question to pursue. Note that for the xx78 series, the 71" set has a 120 w lamp, while the 50", 56", and 61" all have a 100 w one.

If you are operating the 71" in a bright environment, you have the option to switch to the dynamic screen settings and the lamp will step up to 132W. Unfortunately, I do not know which lamp setting Samsung used to produce the brightness spec of 500 CD/M-SQ. So if you are using the standard 120W picture modes, your brightness may be less than 500.

Maybe I will do a little research and see if I can come up with the 67 series specs from the 67 brochure and update POST #1. The advantage is that people can go down and look at the 67 series units and make bightness judgements.

I am more familiar with the smaller screen sizes and they are BRIGHT!

I've added brightness and lamp specs to the 67 series area in POST #1. Here are the specs:

Brightness (cd/m-sq): 61"=600, 56"=700, 50"=900, 46", 42" = 1000.
Lamp (Standard/Dynamic Display Setting): 42, 46, 50, 56", 61"=(100W/120W)

If you go down and look at a 61" HLR6167W it will have a brightness of 600 vs the 500 that will be available on the 71". It should give you a really good idea of what the you will be seeing when the 71" is released.

But, if you want a really, really bright set ... look at the smaller screen sizes.

I've added the following FAQ #19 to POST #1:

19. How do you remove the pedestal base on the HLR series tabletop units? Comments supplied by LostGator (AVSforum Member)
Ok, after looking at removing the base a little more, I finally got it. Basically, remove the 2 screws on the back of the unit which hold the base on (you'll see what I mean when you see it). Push down the two tabs on the base until you hear a click or can see they're free of the main unit. Gently tap the the base from the front. This will push the base toward the back and it will just slide off. Even easier than the HLP's 10 screws, once you know how to do it.

ok - i've been lurking here for a LONG time, and finally am getting serious about buying a set, now that my tv room is nearing completion. right now i keep going back and forth between the HLR5067W and the HLR5668W....and am leaning towards the 1080p set.

one (hopefully very easy) question.

i understand there are other advatages (contrast, new chip, etc), but from a pure resolution POV, what is the advantage to having 1080p capability if nothing currently (or in the near future) provides that signal, other than being able to take a 1080i signal and switch it to 1080p without downconverting?

from what i've read, the tv cant even accept a 1080p signal from any of its inputs.

thanks...

Hopefully, your Mits owners manual will have a specs page with brightness listed. If so, compare the spec to these values for the 68 / 78 series:

Brightness (cd/m-sq): 71"=500, 61"=600, 56"=700, 50"=800
Lamp (Standard/Dynamic Display Setting): 71"=(120W/132W); 50", 56", 61"=(100W/120W)

Brightness (cd/m-sq): 67"=525 (estimate), 61"=600, 56"=700
Lamp (Standard/Dynamic Display Setting): 67"=(120W/132W -- estimated); 56", 61"=(100W/120W)

UCSB: Thanks much for jumping on this 'brightness' topic. I want a large set, and the dimness reported by many for the current Mits 62" dlp's is a concern. I find the brightness of the present Sammy hlp 6163 to be fine, but I can't find the quantitative spec for it anywhere. Do you know what it is?

So it would be great to know what the numbers are for the present 720p sets are, the Mits 62" (which is too dim for many) and the Sammy 61"(which I find OK). And since the brighteness number for the new xx68's are presumably the same as those listed for the xx78's, we would be in a pretty good position to know how things stack up (except for the 6768 which has no xx78 counterpart).

UCSB: ... Do you know what it is?

Sorry, I can't remember the HLP6163W brightness spec. If you can find it, I would be interested.

No, I think he is just saying that he is playing stuff so loud that random junk (including his TV) starts vibrating.

<THX: Abe Simpson> TURN IT UP! </THX>

Be careful your head don't explode...

John is correct. Though I really don't play my movies that loud. ;) Seriously, when you have a subwoofer in your system, you'll discover all sorts of things that want to vibrate in sympathy with it.

John is correct. Though I really don't play my movies that loud. ;) Seriously, when you have a subwoofer in your system, you'll discover all sorts of things that want to vibrate in sympathy with it.

hifisponge ... we've warned you about using those two high output subwoofers for a TV stand! ;) Sorry ... your original point is a valid one. The back of these sets are pretty basic. On the other hand, over the past few years that I have been following Samsung DLP sets I have never heard a complaint about case resonance. I have never heard the case resonate on my own set.

I'm still thinking about your original post about being disappointed in the 67 series.

Just a quick note about hifisponge being disappointed in the 67 series: I have a 5067 and the "rough" screen is a bit of a distraction when veiwing white or other bright colors. It's almost like there are two points for your eyes to focus upon... and they are only separated by the thickness of the screen. So it's noticable most of the time.

Sorry, I can't remember the HLP6163W brightness spec. If you can find it, I would be interested.

Haven't seen it anywhere, even in the manual (since I HAVE a 6163!) I'll bet, though, that it is a 100 watt bulb, same as the new 61" sets.

I have also been waiting for the 1080p sets so I can compare them to the Sony.

My wife feels the current 67 series still does not look as sharp as the Sony.
I have to admit even after attempting to adjust the settings at BB I could not get it to compare in "Crispness".

I am hoping the 1080p sets are better.


Question:
As far as PC input is concerned how does the strait DVI measure up to the VGA input? Or better asked what is the diff?

Thanks in advance.

from what i've read, the tv cant even accept a 1080p signal from any of its inputs.

See them and make your own choice. 1080p input sources aren't around the next corner. :o

See them and make your own choice. 1080p input souirces aren't round the next corner. :o

thats exactly my point. why get a 1080p set if there arent 1080p sources on the horizon? what am i missing?

ok - i've been lurking here for a LONG time, and finally am getting serious about buying a set, now that my tv room is nearing completion. right now i keep going back and forth between the HLR5067W and the HLR5668W....and am leaning towards the 1080p set.

one (hopefully very easy) question.

i understand there are other advatages (contrast, new chip, etc), but from a pure resolution POV, what is the advantage to having 1080p capability if nothing currently (or in the near future) provides that signal, other than being able to take a 1080i signal and switch it to 1080p without downconverting?

from what i've read, the tv cant even accept a 1080p signal from any of its inputs.

thanks...

Ugh, this is a valid question, but I feel like it gets asked every three pages or so.

there is no doubt that there is a huge benefit to 1080p despite the fact that the sets do not accept a 1080p signal.

First, let me explain to you that the concept of deinterlacing. This is when the set takes a signal that normally displays 540 lines of picture per 1/60th of a second and then displays a different 540 lines of picture in the next 1/60th of a second. Thus, this is really 30 full frames per second, but it is quickly being "flickered" back and forth between the different fields to display the picture. This sort of "tricks" your eyes into seeing the entire resolution even though it is not being shown all at once. The idea behind these 1080p sets is that despite not being able to take a 1080p signal (and they don't exist right now anyway), it takes the sequential 1/60th of a second fields from the 1080i signal and displays them at the same time on the display instead of "flickering" the fields back and forth. Thus, there is no trick, it is a full 1080 lines of resolution all the time at 30 frames and 30 fields (full 1080 lines)/second

720p is capable of showing a full 60 frames/second with the entire 720 lines of resolution displayed at any given time. 1080p and 1080i do not have an ATSC format that displays 60 full frames/second (which, if it were interlaced would be 120 fields/second). thus, these sets can scale the 720p picture up to 1080p and we get to see the full 60fps of 720p as well.

Also, it is important to note that under ATSC standards, receivers are not required to output 1080p, and 1080p is only an ATSC specification to the extent that it is displayed at either 30 fields/frames per second or 24 fields/frames per second. Note that 1080p 30 is essentially the same as the 1080i standard that is 60 fields/second and 30 frames/second, since in both cases you get 30 frames per second in the end. Of course, this is under the assumption that the deinterlacing is good enough that the deinterlaced signal is an accurate representation of 1080p.

Also note that for television programming, no one needs to worry about future proofing, at least with respect to the current ATSC specifications. From everything that I have read, ATSC receivers are required to output 1080i regardless of what is offered going forward, so you will always be able to deinterlace 1080i 60/30 to 1080p 30 frames/second.

Now, as far as film is concerned, it is my understanding that films are done at 24fps. HD-DVD supposedly only supports 1080i, and Blue Ray supports 1080p. Now, since I am sure that both of these formats will have many players with 1080i outputs, we still have nothing to worry about, since the TVs will be able to deinterlace the 1080i 60 fields/second to 30 frames/second and do 3:2 pulldown as necessary to get to 24fps.

So what is the benefit to having 1080p despite no content and no inputs at 1080p?

You tell me.

To my eyes, I probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between 1080i deinterlaced to 1080p vs. a straight 1080p signal. And I am looking damn forward to getting my HLR5668W from TV Authority, thank you very much.

thats exactly my point. why get a 1080p set if there arent 1080p sources on the horizon? what am i missing?


What about the fact the 1080P sets have a contrast ratio up to 10,000:1 versus
2500:1 ?
Can't the 1080P sets accept pc input of 1920x1080 through VGA or DVI ?
Could make for some seriously awesome PC gaming.

thats exactly my point. why get a 1080p set if there arent 1080p sources on the horizon? what am i missing?
All those other benefits and 1080i from TV and HD DVD.

Clorox has given us a lot of the details. I'm not sure that Blue Ray disks will contain 1080p. It's my impression that both types of disks will be 1080i. In any case, as he points out, I will probably think I'm seeing 1080p after de-interlacing.

It still boils down to having the good sense to wait until the sets are available for you to make a choice that is best for your viewing room and your viewing habits.

Clorox is an optimist and I expect him to be very happy with his new 1080p TV for years to come. :D

What about the fact the 1080P sets have a contrast ratio up to 10,000:1 versus
2500:1 ?
Can't the 1080P sets accept pc input of 1920x1080 through VGA or DVI ?
Could make for some seriously awesome PC gaming.


very true - i conceded the contrast enhancement....thats one big reason i'm thinking of going with the 1080p unit.

i'm looking at it from purely a resolution standpoint.


edit: THANK YOU for your replies, and my apologies for not doing a better job skimming the rest of the thread....126 pages was pretty intimidating. thanks again.

i'm looking at it from purely a resolution standpoint.
Standing on one foot is hard to do. :cool:

thats exactly my point. why get a 1080p set if there arent 1080p sources on the horizon? what am i missing?

1080p will display 1920x1080 pixels, 720p will display 1280x720 pixel. You have approximately twice as many pixels on a 1080p set. Almost all HD broadcast material is 1080i, so 1080p will display all of the detail in this HD video (1920x1080). 720p sets take the 1080i content and convert it down to 1280x720. In this process you lose detail. HD DVD's will be in 1080i format so they will go through the same process.

You can watch the same broadcast on 1080p and 720p sets. The 1080p set will show more detail. Items that appear very clear on the 1080p set can be fuzzy or indistinct on the 720p set. Remember the person who produced the video was editing for 1080i and that is the look they were trying to get. When they checked to see if text was readable it was at the 1080i resolution, not the 720p.

When you finally see a 1080p set it will only take a minute or two to understand what is going on ... it is very apparent. When I watch broadcasts on my 720p set now, I often wonder if a detail on the screen would be clear if I was watching it on a 1080p set. For example, KQED, our local PBS station has this little video clip of a SF street car. The writing on the street car looks blurry at 720p, but I now realize it is clear at 1080i.

Other reasons that I'm interested include ability to display photos at the higher resolution and ability to output my computer to the screen. The higher resolution is high enough to make these two applications meaningful.

1080p will display 1920x1080 pixels, 720p will display 1280x720 pixel. You have approximately twice as many pixels on a 1080p set. Almost all HD broadcast material is 1080i, so 1080p will display all of the detail in this HD video (1920x1080). 720p sets take the 1080i content and convert it down to 1280x720. In this process you lose detail. HD DVD's will be in 1080i format so they will go through the same process.

More knowledgeable engineers will probably jump in, but IIRC, 1080i is only 540p with some time-shifting. 720p does not necessarily mean a loss of detail on 1080i material, it depends on the scaling/conversion/deinterlacing algorithm used.

You can watch the same broadcast on 1080p and 720p sets. The 1080p set will show more detail. Items that appear very clear on the 1080p set can be fuzzy or indistinct on the 720p set.

Same disclaimer, but IIRC, you do not gain any real benefits from the increased pixel count until you get into larger screens, so "will show more detail" needs to be tempered with "if you're within the optimal distance away from the set."
IIRC, the main benefit only shows up if you sit close enough to the set and/or have the perfect vision to actually discern such differences.


Other reasons that I'm interested include ability to display photos at the higher resolution and ability to output my computer to the screen. The higher resolution is high enough to make these two applications meaningful.

this, I agree with, but again, a lot depends on how good your eyesight is, how close you sit to the set, and how good your source material is.

The Mits 1080p 73" set will have a 150W bulb, so it should be brighter than the 71" Samsung, if all other things such as the screen are the same.

BHChan ... I'm not sure if you misunderstood my earlier comments, but let me take another try. Here is a quote from the HD area of NBC.com, hopefully it makes my point in a clearer manner :) :

=====

The 720p format makes a picture with 720 vertical lines, each with 1280 pixels horizontally -- so in computer display terms, it has a resolution of "1280 x 720". 720p uses progressive scanning, like computers, which sends a complete picture 60 times per second. 720p provides the smoothest possible motion rendition, but it does not have as much resolution as 1080i.

The 1080i format makes a picture with 1080 vertical lines, each with 1920 pixels horizontally -- so in computer display terms, it has a resolution of "1920 x 1080". 1080i uses interlaced scanning, like traditional TV, which alternates sending odd lines and even lines and thus sends a complete picture 30 times per second. 1080i provides the highest possible resolution, but has the same motion rendition as traditional TV.

For those of you are really technically inclined, think about this: movies and many primetime shows that are produced on film are made with only 24 pictures per second, so 1080i actually becomes progressive scan when film-based material is being broadcast!

There are two high definition formats: 720p and 1080i. NBC broadcasts HDTV in the 1080i format, which provides the highest possible resolution to our audience.

=====

The second to the last paragraph is an interesting take on how these new sets will perform with HD DVD's, broadcast movies, and film based primetime shows. Essentially, since movies are made at 24fps, the 1080i HD movies will preserve all of the detail and effectively be 1080p. I know people will want to argue about the interlacing artifacts and other technical issues to diminish this statement, but it is close enough for me.

Anyway, my only point is that there is going to be more detail in the 1920x1080 image than in the 1280x720 image. I don't want to spend the last few weeks before the 1080p sets arrive arguing 720p vs 1080p. I can wait and everyone can do a detailed evaluation once the new TV's arrive.

Since I am new and don't really know the specific rules for disclosing vendor identities, let me just say that I did a pricegrabber look-up for the 4677w and found that one of the advertisers at the top of this forum has a price of approximately $2300 (includes shipping cost). That is hundreds of dollars less than others are charging for the 4677w (including the special pricing offered to AVS members by you know who).

I checked and re-checked and I could not find any reference to "refurbished" on their site. Units are supposedly in stock and ready to ship. Sounds too good to be true. I plan on calling them today after the sun comes up, but meanwhile I was wondering if anyone else has seen this or has any comments.

Thanks.

I don't want to spend the last few weeks before the 1080p sets arrive arguing 720p vs 1080p. I can wait and everyone can do a detailed evaluation once the new TV's arrive.

Why is this such a difficult concept to grasp?

Since I am new and don't really know the specific rules for disclosing vendor identities, let me just say that I did a pricegrabber look-up for the 4677w and found that one of the advertisers at the top of this forum has a price of approximately $2300 (includes shipping cost). That is hundreds of dollars less than others are charging for the 4677w (including the special pricing offered to AVS members by you know who).

I checked and re-checked and I could not find any reference to "refurbished" on their site. Units are supposedly in stock and ready to ship. Sounds too good to be true. I plan on calling them today after the sun comes up, but meanwhile I was wondering if anyone else has seen this or has any comments.

Thanks.

I'm not sure I'm that impressed with that price. I believe the 4677 only has one digital input, is 720p and doesn't have a tuner. Compare that to the powerbuy price for the HL-R5668W. Yes it's about $900 more (which includes tax and shipping), but that's a 56" screen instead of 46", has two digital inputs, is 1080p, has cable card and has an HD tuner.

More knowledgeable engineers will probably jump in, but IIRC, 1080i is only 540p with some time-shifting.

1080i 60frames is like 1080p 30 frames, with some time shifting. In 1080i over two frames you are actually getting 1080 lines of details.

Considering 1080i to 720p is possibly through 540p, I'd definitely consider a 1080p set a major improvement over 720p.

Also, unlike the DLP projectors I've been using (which I can buy and sell after a while to upgrade easily), these sets are keepers. I guess I will keep the set I buy now for 5 to 10 years. So, it makes all the more sense to buy 1080p sets.

I'm not sure I'm that impressed with that price. I believe the 4677 only has one digital input, is 720p and doesn't have a tuner. Compare that to the powerbuy price for the HL-R5668W. Yes it's about $900 more (which includes tax and shipping), but that's a 56" screen instead of 46", has two digital inputs, is 1080p, has cable card and has an HD tuner.


Wish I could go there. I am limited to 46 inch and it has to be the thin bezel version at that. Worse yet, as I understand it, there won't even be a 1080p thin bezel 46 inch model (grumble, grumble). The impressive thing about the $2300 price is how much less it is compared to other vendors. Yesterday I visited a local high-end store and they would not budge from full list price, and unfortunately I can't find either thin bezel 46-inch version (the previous 4674 or the current 4677) at any of the discount brick and mortar stores here in SC.

Wish I could go there. I am limited to 46 inch and it has to be the thin bezel version at that. Worse yet, as I understand it, there won't even be a 1080p thin bezel 46 inch model (grumble, grumble). The impressive thing about the $2300 price is how much less it is compared to other vendors. Yesterday I visited a local high-end store and they would not budge from full list price, and unfortunately I can't find either thin bezel 46-inch version (the previous 4674 or the current 4677) at any of the discount brick and mortar stores here in SC.

With that in mind, it does seem like the deal makes sense, as long as they are reputable!

4677 **does** have ATSC tuner + Cablecard.
All of Samsung's new integrated 720p models have only one digital input.
4677 does not have PC input.

Which ones have/will have an PC Input?

Ugh, this is a valid question, but I feel like it gets asked every three pages or so.

there is no doubt that there is a huge benefit to 1080p despite the fact that the sets do not accept a 1080p signal.

First, let me explain to you that the concept of deinterlacing. This is when the set takes a signal that normally displays 540 lines of picture per 1/60th of a second and then displays a different 540 lines of picture in the next 1/60th of a second. Thus, this is really 30 full frames per second, but it is quickly being "flickered" back and forth between the different fields to display the picture. This sort of "tricks" your eyes into seeing the entire resolution even though it is not being shown all at once. The idea behind these 1080p sets is that despite not being able to take a 1080p signal (and they don't exist right now anyway), it takes the sequential 1/60th of a second fields from the 1080i signal and displays them at the same time on the display instead of "flickering" the fields back and forth. Thus, there is no trick, it is a full 1080 lines of resolution all the time at 30 frames and 30 fields (full 1080 lines)/second
...

I believe what Clorox is saying is correct for "true" 1080p TVs but not for wobulated. Since there are wobulated mirrors that are responsible for drawing 2 pixels, each every 60th of a second, it would be impossible for it to to combine 2 x 540 line images in a 1080p image and output it every 1/30th of a second since the wobulated mirror cannot paint both pixels simultaneously.

In other words, with the wobulated technology it will always have to draw the 540 lines every 1/60th of a second (allowing wobulate mirrors to draw both pixels) as opposed to combining the 2 x 540 line fields into 1 x 1080p image and outputting every 1/30th of a second.

Thoughts?

What about the fact the 1080P sets have a contrast ratio up to 10,000:1 versus
2500:1 ?
Can't the 1080P sets accept pc input of 1920x1080 through VGA or DVI ?
Could make for some seriously awesome PC gaming.
There are HDMI chips which support 1920*1080 60fps (165Mhz) bandwidth:
http://www.siimage.com/products/product.aspx?id=22
This is the same bandwidth as single channel DVI which I run on my 23" 1920*1200 60 fps computer monitor today.

Sony Playstation 3 will generate dual 1920*1080p signals. So spend $5000 on a "SOTA" display and be shortly disappointed. Beware!

There are computer 1920*1080 sources today and more on the way. HDdvd and PS3. So why are so many AVS forum members clueless, I don't know.

The most important issue with these new "1080p" DLP chips is whether they will cause headaches when you view them. Having pixels overlap is a disaster which causes my eyes to never be able to "lock on" to a picture.
Focus hunt == headaches. Beware!

We are up to 10,800 rpm color wheeels! Now add in a large mirror vibrating. I like the Hummers in SUVs, not in my HDTV.

If DLP = Digital Light Engine then why are the only PC inputs in ANALOG?
What ever happened to 1:1 digital pixel mapping? Think people, is something fishy going on?

is something fishy going on?

I'm guessing (and this is only a WAG as far as I'm concerned) that the current limitations are related to non-Display side of politics, just like the need to refuse 720p upconversion via component outputs on most upconverting DVD players out now. It's not a technological challenge/limitation, but a political one.

What could possibly be the political issue with supporting PCs? I'm guessing it has to do with the ease of copyright circumvention. So they cripple us where they can, by maintaining control on the inputs to the tv.

Again, this is a WAG with probably some conspiracy theory and paranoia thrown in. ;)
It's also why sometimes, I feel better saving the 5 c-notes and going with the 'lesser' 720p unit... I'll wait for 1080p to hit their 3rd generation and then see where the political climate has taken the technology. :D

(I also conspiracy-theorize that they push HDMI, which is lesser to DVI, for the same reason. DVI on the PC side has been supporting higher resolution with no problems, but they limit us on what we can output to...)

Sony Playstation 3 will generate dual 1920*1080p signals. So spend $5000 on a "SOTA" display and be shortly disappointed. Beware!

Well maybe. Specs subject to change remember. They over hyped the PS2 and that wasn't nearly as powerful as they said it would be.

If DLP = Digital Light Engine then why are the only PC inputs in ANALOG?

Last time I checked these were tv's, not computer monitors. I would say PC inputs is a courtesy, nothing more.

There are computer 1920*1080 sources today and more on the way. HDdvd and PS3. So why are so many AVS forum members clueless, I don't know.

And the horsepower to push a computer at that rez is pretty high. HD-DVD will be 1080i, PS3, I'll believe it when I see it on the shelves. I wouldn't say clueless I would say realistic.

I believe what Clorox is saying is correct for "true" 1080p TVs but not for wobulated. Since there are wobulated mirrors that are responsible for drawing 2 pixels, each every 60th of a second, it would be impossible for it to to combine 2 x 540 line images in a 1080p image and output it every 1/30th of a second since the wobulated mirror cannot paint both pixels simultaneously.

In other words, with the wobulated technology it will always have to draw the 540 lines every 1/60th of a second (allowing wobulate mirrors to draw both pixels) as opposed to combining the 2 x 540 line fields into 1 x 1080p image and outputting every 1/30th of a second.

Thoughts?

Scott ... the mirrors on these sets operate at incredible speeds. Fast enough to paint colors using a 10,800 RPM color wheel. Each pixel is drawn multiple times in each 1/60th second frame.

BHChan ... I'm not sure if you misunderstood my earlier comments, but let me take another try.

looking back, I think I was confusing the X ->720p conversion algorithm with the X -> 1080p conversion algorithm. I apologize. It's the conversion path for 720p that potentially only uses 540p

Anyway, my only point is that there is going to be more detail in the 1920x1080 image than in the 1280x720 image.

I think my point was it won't matter until you hit a certain screen size and/or distance from the screen...
just like the ability to see how ugly 480i is doesn't really happen until you get close to 50" screens (at least back in the CRT 4:3 world when I saw this first-hand.)

I don't want to spend the last few weeks before the 1080p sets arrive arguing 720p vs 1080p. I can wait and everyone can do a detailed evaluation once the new TV's arrive.

But isn't that the fun part about these forums? To test out theories and debate on things and then be proven wrong in a couple of weeks, humbly go "woah, I'm glad I was wrong" or "darn it, I should've waited" and then jump onto the next big debate (like which next-gen console will be worthwhile, esp. if they can output 1080p/60, which some upcoming 1080p displays do not support) :D

Scott ... the mirrors on these sets operate at incredible speeds. Fast enough to paint colors using a 10,800 RPM color wheel. Each pixel is drawn multiple times in each 1/60th second frame.

Thanks.

In terms of exact speed, TI mentions it in their SmoothPicture Overview. According to TI, "Utilizing the high switching speed of the DMD, both subframes of data containing all of the original pixels in the image can be displayed within one 16ms field time. Each incoming video frame is parsed into the two separate subframes, one subframe containing all of the odd image pixels, the other containing all of the even pixels. The 16ms video field time is subdivided into two 8ms subfield times."

Thanks UCSB and Clorox for explanations that the "clueless" like me can understand.

Anyone for counting angels on the tip of a pin? ;)

Anyone for counting angels on the tip of a pin? ;)[/QUOTE]

Sure - but first we need to know - would that be a hat pin, common pin, diaper pin, clothes pin, or what? It would make a difference you know. The way I figure it, a typical angel occupies .000023987 sq cm (multiply that by a factor of 1.03624 if it's a wobulating angel). As for me, all the technical details are more than I can process. Nonetheless, this is one fine forum for someone like me who wants to know just enough to avoid making a big mistake by succumbing to some manufacturer's or dealers advertising hype. When I started out, I didn't even know what DLP/LCD/etc was - all I knew was that I had a fixed amount of available space, lots of uncovered windows and limited funds. Having read most every post on this forum a couple times, I find that I now know more than most of the salespeople that I encounter. Pat yourselves on your backs all you tech-savvy folks - especially those that make a non-tech-savvy person like me actually "get it" most of the time. Thanks to this site, and the excellent post at the start of this thread, I was able to narrow my selection down to two choices - the HLP4674 or the HLR4677. Am now trying to figure out where to buy it!

Gosh, this post is getting HUGE and almost impossible to make a judgement on whether or not to get HLR5668 without getting a headache.

Anyhoo, just looked at the Powerbuy description on the 5668 on the TVAuthority site and it says it is a 5000:1 contrast ratio.

The beginning info on this post says "up to 10,000:1". Not sure if one or the other is a mistake. Also not sure if it will be a very big deal.

The Powerbuy seems to be a really great price. I remember seeing a recent powerbuy prices on the 5663 and the 5674 and this seems to be a better price for what seems to be a superior TV. I will probably go for it if I like what I see when it comes into a local store in the next few weeks.

I keep holding off getting one of these TV sets cause the technology is always improving. Hopefully I will be happy with the 5668 when I see it.

Anyone for counting angels on the tip of a pin? ;)

Actually, I prefer the theoretical topic, "if a man's in a forest and there's no woman around, is he still wrong?" :D

Anyhoo, just looked at the Powerbuy description on the 5668 on the TVAuthority site and it says it is a 5000:1 contrast ratio.

The beginning info on this post says "up to 10,000:1". Not sure if one or the other is a mistake. Also not sure if it will be a very big deal.

I'm using the "up to 10,000:1" contrast ratio in POST #1 (for 68 / 78 series) because that is the spec that is shown in the lastest 78 series Samsung brochure. You can view the brochure by clicking on the SPEC SHEET link in the top of the 78 series section next to each screen size / MSRP.

Sometimes these brochures have bad data in them ... so we will have to double check this spec once the TV's are actually released and there is more documentation available.

Actually, I prefer the theoretical topic, "if a man's in a forest and there's no woman around, is he still wrong?" :D
That's too easy. :rolleyes:

1080p will display 1920x1080 pixels, 720p will display 1280x720 pixel. You have approximately twice as many pixels on a 1080p set. Almost all HD broadcast material is 1080i, so 1080p will display all of the detail in this HD video (1920x1080). 720p sets take the 1080i content and convert it down to 1280x720. In this process you lose detail. HD DVD's will be in 1080i format so they will go through the same process.

You can watch the same broadcast on 1080p and 720p sets. The 1080p set will show more detail. Items that appear very clear on the 1080p set can be fuzzy or indistinct on the 720p set. Remember the person who produced the video was editing for 1080i and that is the look they were trying to get. When they checked to see if text was readable it was at the 1080i resolution, not the 720p.

When you finally see a 1080p set it will only take a minute or two to understand what is going on ... it is very apparent. When I watch broadcasts on my 720p set now, I often wonder if a detail on the screen would be clear if I was watching it on a 1080p set. For example, KQED, our local PBS station has this little video clip of a SF street car. The writing on the street car looks blurry at 720p, but I now realize it is clear at 1080i.

Other reasons that I'm interested include ability to display photos at the higher resolution and ability to output my computer to the screen. The higher resolution is high enough to make these two applications meaningful.

You guys are wayyyyy tooooo smart for me! I am trusting you implicitly for my decision...plus my eyes! I can't wait for my TVA 5668!

I believe what Clorox is saying is correct for "true" 1080p TVs but not for wobulated. Since there are wobulated mirrors that are responsible for drawing 2 pixels, each every 60th of a second, it would be impossible for it to to combine 2 x 540 line images in a 1080p image and output it every 1/30th of a second since the wobulated mirror cannot paint both pixels simultaneously.

In other words, with the wobulated technology it will always have to draw the 540 lines every 1/60th of a second (allowing wobulate mirrors to draw both pixels) as opposed to combining the 2 x 540 line fields into 1 x 1080p image and outputting every 1/30th of a second.

Thoughts?
It draws it every 1/120th of a second so it appears as 2 pixels every 1/60th for 60fps. And that is the 960 pixels. The chip is 960 x 1080 not 960 x 540. So it will appear as 1920x1080P at 60fps.

Well maybe. Specs subject to change remember. They over hyped the PS2 and that wasn't nearly as powerful as they said it would be.

Even so, a single 1080p screen is easily doable (see below).



Last time I checked these were tv's, not computer monitors. I would say PC inputs is a courtesy, nothing more.


That's your opinion.

And the horsepower to push a computer at that rez is pretty high. HD-DVD will be 1080i, PS3, I'll believe it when I see it on the shelves. I wouldn't say clueless I would say realistic.

Hogwash! 1600x1200, which is approximately the same # of pixels as 1920x1080, is easily doable by modern graphics cards. In fact, the X800/6800GT cards can drive, say, Doom3 at 60fps.

All I can say is, the ability to run as a HTPC monitor is absolutely critical, a showstopper, a dealbreaker, whatever you wanna call it. I'll wait and see how HTPC mavens make out with these new sets, especially since I have other upgrades to do first.

As it is, it would be nice for these sets to advertise their capabilities over DDC or something supported by modern graphics setups.

Sponge,

Glad you mentioned that about the 5667. I was in CC this weekend and thought the same thing, but tried to rationalize it as just being a store setting. However what you wrote is pretty much what I thought.

It was right next to a Sony 50WE655 LCD that the pq was much more vivid, true and sharp. DLP is supposed to be a brighter picture, but it was not anywhere like the Sony.

So perhaps the 68 series of Samy's might be better? We'll have to just see it in person regardless of what is written.

re: Sponge and Atlantadan comments on Sammy sharpness
I agree with both of you, I was a little underwhelmed at the picture quality when compared to others, including Sony LCD at my local BB. I am planning to also pick up an HLR6168, but I'm going to have to see it first to see how the 1080p looks against the competition....

jpe

re: Sponge and Atlantadan comments on Sammy sharpness
I agree with both of you, I was a little underwhelmed at the picture quality when compared to others, including Sony LCD at my local BB. I am planning to also pick up an HLR6168, but I'm going to have to see it first to see how the 1080p looks against the competition....

jpe


HLR xx67 series has been underwhelming, for sure....

I'll still go check out the new xx68 series, because I am very curious to see what the first 1080p sets look like, but the build quality and hazy screen used in the new Sammys are deal breakers for me. With that said, I was generally impressed with the pedestal style Samsungs (xx85-xx88), in both their build and picture quality. Unfortunately those models don't fit my needs either. I want a 60+ inch screen and there is no where I can see to put a center speaker on or under the pedestal. Besides, I want to see what comes of the Sony SXRD technology. Hopefully they will come out with some reasonably priced models later this year.

I've been lurking through this forum for the past couple of weeks and leaning toward the HLR6168. Anyway there has been some posting about stands and I'd like to tell you about one I found at Costco. I live in San Francisco and found this at the South San Francisco Costco at S. Airport Blvd. Store #422. It's only $200. Item number 854012. It's 57.5" wide X 22" high x 18" deep. The shelves are big enough for the center channel and it's made of wood, steel and glass. I appreciate all the info on this forum and thought this could help some people out.

It draws it every 1/120th of a second so it appears as 2 pixels every 1/60th for 60fps. And that is the 960 pixels. The chip is 960 x 1080 not 960 x 540. So it will appear as 1920x1080P at 60fps.

Note that while the wobulated chip first "draws" the odd pixels on row and then 'draws" the even pixels on the row, the entire row is drawn each time. This is due to the diamond pixel pattern and the fact that the aspect of the 960 x 1080 chip is 16 x 9. When the odd pixels are drawn, the even pixels are also drawn as an interpolation of the four surrounding odd pixels. When the even pixels are drawn, the odd pixels are also drawn as an interpolation of the four surrounding even pixels.

So one always sees a complete picture, just some pixels are more detailed than others depending on which are being drawn during that subframe. The pixel is not the entire diamond shaped mirror, but rather the inscribed square. Each mirror has twice the area of a pixel.

I am still deciding between the 56" and 61" television, but does anyone have any recommendations on TV Stands?

Most of my components will be racked - so I only need one shelf for the playstation or xbox and possibly one for the center speaker (Though I am siding on putting it on a shelf that is mounted level with the top of the TV.)

I just have a question for some people that might know. I have been doing a lot of reading on this and was wondering if anyone else has heard. Some of the specs on the new blu-ray and playstation 3 have talked about outputting a 1080i. There is so much mixed feelings about wether or not to buy this tv now because the inputs are going to be changing very soon. Now my question is. Is this a good assumption and logical way to look at this? Electrical outlets in your house transmit an alternating current (AC) for transmission and practicality purposes. DC would not be practical in any aspect for the electrical company to send to your house. Is this a good representation right now for the difference between 1080i and 1080p? Is 1080i like AC and 1080p like DC and the most logical, practical way to transmit is with 1080i since it has all the same information as the 1080p? Because all electronic devices that you have hooked up to your wall outlet in your house(AC) do a pretty good job of converting back to DC for usage. Would there be any less expectation for the 1080i->1080p converter in the TV to work just as efficiently as the AC->DC converter in the TV?

I just have a question for some people that might know. I have been doing a lot of reading on this and was wondering if anyone else has heard. Some of the specs on the new blu-ray and playstation 3 have talked about outputting a 1080i. There is so much mixed feelings about wether or not to buy this tv now because the inputs are going to be changing very soon. Now my question is. Is this a good assumption and logical way to look at this? Electrical outlets in your house transmit an alternating current (AC) for transmission and practicality purposes. DC would not be practical in any aspect for the electrical company to send to your house. Is this a good representation right now for the difference between 1080i and 1080p? Is 1080i like AC and 1080p like DC and the most logical, practical way to transmit is with 1080i since it has all the same information as the 1080p? Because all electronic devices that you have hooked up to your wall outlet in your house(AC) do a pretty good job of converting back to DC for usage. Would there be any less expectation for the 1080i->1080p converter in the TV to work just as efficiently as the AC->DC converter in the TV?

From a "practical" perspective, 1080i is a preferred broadcast standard to 1080p because it takes up less bandwidth. This particularly applies to signals being broadcast over the air, IIR. However, that doesn't really apply to video games and DVDs as much where bandwidth is not as much of an issue (Blue-Ray certainly has the capacity). A straight 1080p signal cannot be worse than a 1080i signal, and is most definitely preferred to a 1080i signal if available, since nothing needs to be altered. The issue of whether or not it really matters for the viewer is dependent upon the quality of the deinterlacing that is done by the TV. It is my opinion that most people (including most people on this forum, actually) would not be able to tell the difference between a 1080i signal deinterlaced to 1080p and a straight 1080p signal. Also, there is no doubt in my mind that these new toys (ps3, hd-dvd, etc.) will have 1080i output as an output option, so it won't be a huge concern to me.

I have a really dumb question. I have the HLR5067. Why does everybody refer to it as a 720p television when it is capable of displaying 1080i?

Because the actual number of pixels corresponds to only 720p (it *converts* 1080i to 720p).

I have a really dumb question. I have the HLR5067. Why does everybody refer to it as a 720p television when it is capable of displaying 1080i?

Because it IS a 720p television. I.e., it's native resolution is 720p. If it receives a 1080i signal, it downconverts and deinterlaces to 720p. If it receives a 480i signal, it upconverts and deinterlaces to 720p.

I just have a question for some people that might know. I have been doing a lot of reading on this and was wondering if anyone else has heard. Some of the specs on the new blu-ray and playstation 3 have talked about outputting a 1080i. There is so much mixed feelings about wether or not to buy this tv now because the inputs are going to be changing very soon. Now my question is. Is this a good assumption and logical way to look at this? Electrical outlets in your house transmit an alternating current (AC) for transmission and practicality purposes. DC would not be practical in any aspect for the electrical company to send to your house. Is this a good representation right now for the difference between 1080i and 1080p? Is 1080i like AC and 1080p like DC and the most logical, practical way to transmit is with 1080i since it has all the same information as the 1080p? Because all electronic devices that you have hooked up to your wall outlet in your house(AC) do a pretty good job of converting back to DC for usage. Would there be any less expectation for the 1080i->1080p converter in the TV to work just as efficiently as the AC->DC converter in the TV?

Nice try for an analogie, but in general 1080p has twice the information of a 1080i signal. However, when we are talking about movies, they are filmed at 24fps and TV is transmitted at 60fps. The method of duplicating frames to transmit a 1080p24 signal on a 1080i60 broadcast actually doesn't throw out any of the information and can be reversed at the other side to yield the 1080p24 signal again (this is how progressive DVD players work). Here your AC/DC idea works.

For a 1080p60 signal however, like a computer output (or PS3), 1080p does contain more information than 1080i which is similar to the difference between regular DVD and progressive DVD playback.

AC/DC converters are actually a rather large power loss and take up a lot of room. There have been proposals to convert the power at your home centrally and then just use DC for every line. Historically we are stuck with the current situation because thats where all the standards are (DC plugs are fairly nonstandard, with the exception of automobile use of cigarette lighter adapters).

There is a legitimite issue that the TV can display a 1080p format but no digital input on the TV will accept that input. The practicality of this limitation is still very much open for debate.

I think a better analogie between AC/DC and TV is actually compressed signals (MPEG2,MPEG4) versus uncompressed signals. Like with DC it is not reasonable to transmit uncompressed video to your house but it is feasible to transmit it around your house.

I am still deciding between the 56" and 61" television, but does anyone have any recommendations on TV Stands?

Most of my components will be racked - so I only need one shelf for the playstation or xbox and possibly one for the center speaker (Though I am siding on putting it on a shelf that is mounted level with the top of the TV.)


I would get a Universal stand such as the TR63X " Samsung TR63X DLP Stand. Give your Samsung DLP the perfect home with this stand designed to match the contours of the Samsung DLP television line.to flawlessly blend TV and stand together. Stand adjusts to match the TV size! Plus, enough shelving to hold the audio/video components you need to create a home theater system.

I am still deciding between the 56" and 61" television, but does anyone have any recommendations on TV Stands?

I just got delivered a stand by bush furniture and the matching audio rack (i had to refuse the audio rack since it was damaged in shipment but should have a replacement soon):

http://www.bush-furniture-online.com/bush_VS44150-03.html

This happened to me.

They had a huge sale at Sam's club (wholesale store) displaying a nice 61" Samsung HL-6163w unit that looked great.
I have been very impressed with DLP technology but I did not know anything about the details after I bought the TV. When I took it home and further got involved in the testing and tweaking of several of my video devices I learned more and more about HDTV.
I jumped on the internet and quickly learned that this TV was not the way to go with the fast changing technology or even compared to the existing HD2+ chip.
I have read almost the entire thread and still undecided on which way to go. I ended up returning the TV and have the cash set aside to pick up the TV that I will be happy with. Even the XHD3 chip coming out already has bad reviews, for that matter I've heard bad things about the XHD4 chip as weel.
I am looking primarily for quality picture, vivid colors and good looks (Isn't that what everyone wants?) I have been told the smaller the TV the better resolution. There are so many stores out there that claim how good the Mitsubishi TV is and how much better for the money and so on. I am not really convinced, the color is rather green and compared to the Samsung (they call i t "the blue" TV) I can care less unless I get quality picture.
In closing, I would appreciate anyone's input on which TV I should consider purchasing, I happened to like the 46" Samsung HLP4674w, however my wife would love to see a 61" TV in our living room, but I can't find anything in the Samsung line of that size with the HD2+ chip. I can compromise with a 56 that will do the trick. Please post Model and details if possible".

Thank you very much for your input.

I am still deciding between the 56" and 61" television, but does anyone have any recommendations on TV Stands?

Most of my components will be racked - so I only need one shelf for the playstation or xbox and possibly one for the center speaker (Though I am siding on putting it on a shelf that is mounted level with the top of the TV.)

My local Costco store had a steel & glass TV stand for 50-60" rear projectors. Its the "Strata" wide TV stand, its good value at $180.

(My HL-R6167W hasnt arrived yet :p )

This happened to me.

They had a huge sale at Sam's club (wholesale store) displaying a nice 61" Samsung HL-6163w unit that looked great.
I have been very impressed with DLP technology but I did not know anything about the details after I bought the TV. When I took it home and further got involved in the testing and tweaking of several of my video devices I learned more and more about HDTV.
I jumped on the internet and quickly learned that this TV was not the way to go with the fast changing technology or even compared to the existing HD2+ chip.
I have read almost the entire thread and still undecided on which way to go. I ended up returning the TV and have the cash set aside to pick up the TV that I will be happy with. Even the XHD3 chip coming out already has bad reviews, for that matter I've heard bad things about the XHD4 chip as weel.
I am looking primarily for quality picture, vivid colors and good looks (Isn't that what everyone wants?) I have been told the smaller the TV the better resolution. There are so many stores out there that claim how good the Mitsubishi TV is and how much better for the money and so on. I am not really convinced, the color is rather green and compared to the Samsung (they call i t "the blue" TV) I can care less unless I get quality picture.
In closing, I would appreciate anyone's input on which TV I should consider purchasing, I happened to like the 46" Samsung HLP4674w, however my wife would love to see a 61" TV in our living room, but I can't find anything in the Samsung line of that size with the HD2+ chip. I can compromise with a 56 that will do the trick. Please post Model and details if possible".

Thank you very much for your input.

If you buy a 46" set when your wife wanted a 61", she will tell you every time that she looks at it that you bought a TV that was too small.

The two of you should set down and carefully go through POST #1 at the top of this thread. But, at 61", why not try a HLR6168W? They should be in stores in two or three weeks and the two of you can go down and take a look.

I have looked at the HLR-6167W however its not an HD2+ chip and know well not to go for the HD3 Chip. Does the 6168W have a HD2+ chip?. I wasn't aware of that.

Aka,

I have watched the tv's that carry the HD2+ chip and so far they look pretty good, I have also seen the diference in the xx63 series and truly it is another world. I wonder if the new XHD4 will really be the way to go in terms of PQ vs. the HD2+, but I keep hearing bad things about the upcoming chip, such as that it will look like a HD3 chip with a different layer of metals and perfected vessel.

HL-R5677W is as close as I can get in terms of what I am looking for however with the new 1080p it really makes it hard to decide. They also say the new 1080p its not that much different. :eek:

I don't know who all these "they" are that you are speaking with, but I would wait and see it for yourself if I were you. Forget the chip name and what "they" say. Wait and get a look yourself!

I don't know who all these "they" are that you are speaking with

I was just going to respond with the same thing. As far as seeing it is concerned there are many people here who have acutally seen the new 1080p samsungs and say they are great.

I have downloaded the spec sheets and looked at the measurements for the 68 and 78 series TV's. Are there any side shots available for any of the TV's. Basically all these new houses have media niches cut out of the wall for people to put our TV's in. Problem is, mine only measures 55" across. So it limits me to the size of the TV. I know the 56" will fit at 52" inches. The 61" is around 57". However I'm wandering how soon it flares back in after the screen. Is there and inch or two depth, then taper back. Cause then I could just shove it in there and just have the screen part sticking out about and inch or two??? Are there side shots or measurements? Or do I need to wait a couple of weeks and see for myself at BB or CC? Thx

I don't know who all these "they" are that you are speaking with, but I would wait and see it for yourself if I were you. Forget the chip name and what "they" say. Wait and get a look yourself!

Stores, online forums.

Then people wonder why TI is droping the HD chip naming.

Aka,

l.

HL-R5677W is as close as I can get in terms of what I am looking for however with the new 1080p it really makes it hard to decide. They also say the new 1080p its not that much different. :eek:



"They" don't know what they're talking about. Wait a while until you see 1080P sets side-by-side with 720P sets and within two minutes, if not sooner, you will see what fools "they" are:)

I was just going to respond with the same thing. As far as seeing it is concerned there are many people here who have acutally seen the new 1080p samsungs and say they are great.

I have read it from several other forums and have confirmed it with a top end electronics store mgr with 25 yrs in the television sales industry. I have not seen it myself, just need to verify if the picture on the new 1080p will be as good as such picture on the xx77 series. and if the 61" TV will produce such picture quality.

I would guess that the back of the cabinet of the new 68 and 78 TVs will be much like the 63 and 67 series for which there is a design (cut) sheet on the Samsung web site. This will probably get you close to the info you need. Also, for pictures of the back and side views of the cabinet, take a look at the 63 models on Crutchfield's web site.


Great! Thank you

Stores, online forums.
Not this forum and I would consider this forum the first goto place if you want to know anything about AV. Some extremely knowlegable people on here.

Aka,

LOL BB and CC blow. :)

Not this forum.

That's why I am here asking all this questions. I appreciate the input.

Its comming down to either wait and see the new 1080p's or buy the HL-R5677W.

That's why I am here asking all this questions. I appreciate the input.

Its comming down to either wait and see the new 1080p's or buy the HL-R5677W.
No problem. Nothing wrong with asking questions.

If it's a matter of wait-and-see vs. buy now...you are lucky in only having to wait a few more weeks vs. those of us who havd had to wait-and-see for months!

Take a deep breath. It's only a few more weeks.

(Why does the red dot at the left show me as invisable?!?)

If it's a matter of wait-and-see vs. buy now...you are lucky in only having to wait a few more weeks vs. those of us who havd had to wait-and-see for months!

Take a deep breath. It's only a few more weeks.


Ed,

You are right about all that wait.!

I have a 20" TV in my B/R and another 23" in my Kids room, but I have been keeping an eye on DLP for years. Finally decided to give it a shot. Hopefully this new 1080p will make a significant difference in the 61" tv's.

dlpmx ... if you haven't read it yet, POST #1 in this thread has a detailed summary of all of the 2005 Samsung models and FAQ's. I would recommend going down and looking at the new HLRxx67W series and in about two weeks the new HLRxx68W series.

dlpmx ... if you haven't read it yet, POST #1 in this thread has a detailed summary of all of the 2005 Samsung models and FAQ's. I would recommend going down and looking at the new HLRxx67W series and in about two weeks the new HLRxx68W series.


Bill,

I did, I am going blind with so much reading. Thank you.

Can anyone comment on Cable SD feed from the 5067? I have a toshiba 62HMX and the sd cable feed it unwatchable.

Thanks,

Can anyone comment on Cable SD feed from the 5067? I have a toshiba 62HMX and the sd cable feed it unwatchable.

Thanks,
Look at this thread.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=537675

Because it IS a 720p television. I.e., it's native resolution is 720p. If it receives a 1080i signal, it downconverts and deinterlaces to 720p. If it receives a 480i signal, it upconverts and deinterlaces to 720p.

OK. Then when I press the "info" button on my remote, why does it show 1080, not 720?

Should I set my Direct TV HD Tivo to only output 720?

You certainly should *not* tell it to only output 1080i. Either do "pass through" or 720p.

OK. Then when I press the "info" button on my remote, why does it show 1080, not 720?

Should I set my Direct TV HD Tivo to only output 720?

it is receiving a 1080i signal.

it then converts that signal to 720p, which it can display.

Thank you profjoe and bhchan.

They aren't kidding when they put in this "quick reply" window. :-)

Has anyone located a downloadable manual for the XX68/XX78?

There are no manuals available yet for the 68/78. There is a preliminary one for the 88 which is linked in post #1,

Can anyone comment on Cable SD feed from the 5067? I have a toshiba 62HMX and the sd cable feed it unwatchable.

Thanks,

If you're referring to the HLR5067W, that's what I have, as well as analog SD cable. At first my cable signal was really bad. With my old CRT I never knew how bad it was. I had to rearrange the cable feed and get my two VCRs out of the path. Once I did that most channels are very good and all are watchable. I have only one TV and the picture is much worse if the signal is split for other rooms. If you have digital cable that's a different story because it can be split without losing quality the same was as analog. For sure my standards aren't as high as some on this site but I find the TV to be impressive even with analog cable. I'd expect the Toshiba to be similar.

Jon

Not considering price, will the HLR7178W (the 71'' set) still fall short of the Qualia 006? I want the best 1080p set on the market, and the drastically cheaper price of the Sammy makes me question its build quality and reliability...

Not considering price, will the HLR7178W (the 71'' set) still fall short of the Qualia 006? I want the best 1080p set on the market, and the drastically cheaper price of the Sammy makes me question its build quality and reliability...

Samsung is a low-end Manufacturer of DLP's, not known for their quality or reliability. Other higher quality Manufacturer's lines will be coming out later this year, but will probably not be much more costly than the Samsungs. The JVC 1080P D-ILA's are probably the only sets that will come close to the Qualia, but it will be interesting to see the new Toshibas and Mitsubishis when they become available, for sure.

Samsung is a low-end Manufacturer of DLP's, not known for their quality or reliability. Other higher quality Manufacturer's lines will be coming out later this year, but will probably not be much more costly than the Samsungs. The JVC 1080P D-ILA's are probably the only sets that will come close to the Qualia, but it will be interesting to see the new Toshibas and Mitsubishis when they become available, for sure.

Sammi,

I'd like to see something to back up your claims that Samsung is not known for quality or reliability in their DLP sets.

Samsung is a low-end Manufacturer of DLP's, not known for their quality or reliability.

I've heard this remark from you several times before, but I'm not sure this is really a fare assessment. Samsung has been the pioneering dlp producer, and from what I've read in the various threads here, their 720p dlp's (that have the same chip) have essentially the same PQ as Mits, for example; some people feel that one is better, and some the other. And I think that the Mits have at least, if not more, 'issues' or problems with their sets, and that they are MUCH less forthcoming in dealing with them. Yes, the Samsung's are more lightly built (and thus weigh less), but I'm not sure this has much to do with PQ and reliability (unless you're planning to mount it in a tank and go to war).

I write this not as a committed Samsung 'fan'. In fact, I'm going to wait to see the new Mits 1080p sets, to compare them with Samsung's, to decide which I'm going to get. But I do think you're taking a cheap shot at Sammy.

Samsung is a low-end Manufacturer of DLP's...

:D :D :D quality... you mean, like JVC??? :D :D :D Actually, Samsung has been and continues to be the leader in DLP. You seem to be seriously confused about the term low-end manufacturer. :rolleyes: I think Samsung has a good chance of having the best HDTV on the market in the next two weeks with the 68 series. I think it will be competitive with the Qualia 006 (which has a number of issues, just like most of these TV's). Face it ... these are going to be great HDTV's at great prices. :)

Please back-up ANY of your claims.

I've heard this remark from you several times before, but I'm not sure this is really a fare assessment. Samsung has been the pioneering dlp producer, and from what I've read in the various threads here, their 720p dlp's (that have the same chip) have essentially the same PQ as Mits, for example; some people feel that one is better, and some the other. And I think that the Mits have at least, if not more, 'issues' or problems with their sets, and that they are MUCH less forthcoming in dealing with them. Yes, the Samsung's are more lightly built (and thus weigh less), but I'm not sure this has much to do with PQ and reliability (unless you're planning to mount it in a tank and go to war).

I write this not as a committed Samsung 'fan'. In fact, I'm going to wait to see the new Mits 1080p sets, to compare them with Samsung's, to decide which I'm going to get. But I do think you're taking a cheap shot at Sammy.I agree...cheap shot!!! I have owned 2 Mits RP's 50" and a 55" the reason I had the 55" was because the Mits dealer replaced my 50" due to 4 repairs in the first year...Mits Service gave me nothing but grief...with every repair...I wanted a replacement and they said NO we will repair it...they never repaired it...they are god awful...I also had problems with the 55" digital board and video board fried separate times...and the wait times in between each repair...unexceptable!!! Will never buy a Mits again...Last year I bought a Samsung HLP6163 from TVA...from the first day of receiving it there was these smudges on the screen...called Samsung...5 days later they replaced my screens with no hassle at all...2 months later the lamp/bulb goes out...next day Samsung field engineer replaces my whole light engine...2 months later the bulb goes out again...Samsung said I had 3 choices...repair it again...replace it with a brand new one...or a full refund...I took the refund...I know that is a lot of repairs in a short time...but something was blowing these lamps out...and Samsung stood up to the plate and wanted to make me happy and they did...that tells you something about their Company and their Service...they are earning their customers...Mits could care less about you after the sale...Looking forward to my HLR6768.

I have downloaded the spec sheets and looked at the measurements for the 68 and 78 series TV's. Are there any side shots available for any of the TV's. Basically all these new houses have media niches cut out of the wall for people to put our TV's in. Problem is, mine only measures 55" across. So it limits me to the size of the TV. I know the 56" will fit at 52" inches. The 61" is around 57". However I'm wandering how soon it flares back in after the screen. Is there and inch or two depth, then taper back. Cause then I could just shove it in there and just have the screen part sticking out about and inch or two??? Are there side shots or measurements? Or do I need to wait a couple of weeks and see for myself at BB or CC? Thx

Don't forget that you need to leave room on the side for access to the side inputs since Samsung does not have front inputs for your temp connections.

I've heard this remark from you several times before, but I'm not sure this is really a fare assessment. Samsung has been the pioneering dlp producer, and from what I've read in the various threads here, their 720p dlp's (that have the same chip) have essentially the same PQ as Mits, for example; some people feel that one is better, and some the other. And I think that the Mits have at least, if not more, 'issues' or problems with their sets, and that they are MUCH less forthcoming in dealing with them. Yes, the Samsung's are more lightly built (and thus weigh less), but I'm not sure this has much to do with PQ and reliability (unless you're planning to mount it in a tank and go to war).

I write this not as a committed Samsung 'fan'. In fact, I'm going to wait to see the new Mits 1080p sets, to compare them with Samsung's, to decide which I'm going to get. But I do think you're taking a cheap shot at Sammy.


He's not far off. Every TV Electronics guy i've spoken to has basically told me Samsung has crap inside compared to Toshiba or Mitsubishi. AND they have a much worse major problem and failure rate than the others. This is pretty common knowledge among industry people.

I agree...cheap shot!!! I have owned 2 Mits RP's 50" and a 55" the reason I had the 55" was because the Mits dealer replaced my 50" due to 4 repairs in the first year...Mits Service gave me nothing but grief...with every repair...I wanted a replacement and they said NO we will repair it...they never repaired it...they are god awful...I also had problems with the 55" digital board and video board fried separate times...and the wait times in between each repair...unexceptable!!! Will never buy a Mits again...Last year I bought a Samsung HLP6163 from TVA...from the first day of receiving it there was these smudges on the screen...called Samsung...5 days later they replaced my screens with no hassle at all...2 months later the lamp/bulb goes out...next day Samsung field engineer replaces my whole light engine...2 months later the bulb goes out again...Samsung said I had 3 choices...repair it again...replace it with a brand new one...or a full refund...I took the refund...I know that is a lot of repairs in a short time...but something was blowing these lamps out...and Samsung stood up to the plate and wanted to make me happy and they did...that tells you something about their Company and their Service...they are earning their customers...Mits could care less about you after the sale...Looking forward to my HLR6768.

Joe ... you have a quality power conditioner on your system, right? It just seems like a lot of failures.

He's not far off. Every TV Electronics guy i've spoken to has basically told me Samsung has crap inside compared to Toshiba or Mitsubishi. AND they have a much worse major problem and failure rate than the others. This is pretty common knowledge among industry people.

Are any of these "TV Electronics" guys AVSforum members that you can chase down and invite to come over to the thread and give us some statistics?

It's unfortunate that gazelle and dlpmx seem to enjoy bashing Samsung because they have "heard" that the sets aren't perfect. All of the major manufacturers use parts from various manufactures. Samsung uses ATI, Silicon Image, Genesis Microchip, and Carl Zeiss for optics. I don't know what other people think, but these are all video industry leaders. Maybe this is the "crap" inside the sets??? Give it up guys. There is no set out there that is perfect, but unless you have something offer other than you "heard ..." we don't need your nonsense.

Samsung is a low-end Manufacturer of DLP's, not known for their quality or reliability.

:eek: :eek: :eek: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Joe ... you have a quality power conditioner on your system, right? It just seems like a lot of failures.Yes I have a Monster 2600 not the best unit...I just had really bad luck! Believe me I will be purchasing a 5 year extended warranty with the 67" I also owned a HLN567 before the HLP6163 and never had one problem...when I bought the HLP I gave the HLN to my daughter...3900 hours without 1 single problem...still looks great!

He's not far off. Every TV Electronics guy i've spoken to has basically told me Samsung has crap inside compared to Toshiba or Mitsubishi. AND they have a much worse major problem and failure rate than the others. This is pretty common knowledge among industry people.

But since most of the DLPs are sold by Samsung, most of the problems should be from Samsung. Do these people assume that since there are more problems with Samsung(since more people have Samsung DLPs) that there is a higher percentage of problems? Just because they see more Samsung sets with problems doesn't necessarily mean there is a higher percentage of problems with Samsung DLPs.

:)
All these cheap shot folks need to provide some backup. We should be thankful to Samsung even if we choose another brand. Name a company that innovates and brings product faster to market than Samsung!

Innovation breeds competition and brings that to us the consumers faster. Just look at what the Qualia 06 and now Sammy's 1080P has done to the marketplace as every single manufacturer is getting in line to bring their 1080P's to market during the next 3-6 months and competition drives pricing down to our benefit.

These cheap shots surface periodically but I have never seen them backed up with any objective evidence supporting the claims. I do not own a Samsung DLP so I have no bias but I surely would like to see some backup rather than sniping on this forum that is baseless opinion.

I am in the market for the Sammy 7178 later this month and my research over the past 6 months I've seen nothing to support these cheap shot claims and of course you'll see more posts for Sammy as they are easily the number 1 seller on the planet for DLP. I have repeatedly seen postings of customers verifying that Samsung made good on any problems they ran into unlike many others.

If anybody goes back to the first page of this forum thread or reads the CES 05' content you'll see tons of innovation and I think Sammy won around 10 Awards at CES. Just look at the variety and innovation Sammy has there on page 1 that UCSB has compiled and updated for around 6 months - that isn't cheap shot opinion what UCSB has provided all of us and so it's easy for snipers to appear and throw BS into the threads - BS doesn't help fellow forum members. I'm not saying the Sammy is the best but a side by side review was done with the 6768 and the Q6 and the Sammy came damn close to matching it and at about the third of the price. (I think it was Sound and Vision Mag)

Snipers without facts go contrary to the intent of this forum and if you think we're wrong provide any evidence to the contrary please? :D

I see the tenative manual for the 88 series does say that it will accept a 1080P 60fps signal from the VGA input. This is good news. Now I know for sure I can use my iScanHD with my SDi RP82 dvd player and input 1080P 60hz into the TV.

I love the picture quality on my HLR5067W for HDTV.

But I see ghosting on DVD text, such as menus and credits.
Samsung says this is normal for 480p input.

Should I believe them?

When I display the AVIA resolution/sharpness test pattern
I see a two faint copies/ghosts to the left of each vertical
crosshatch. Tried 2 DVD players and 2 sets of component cables.

The Samsung tech used a signal generator to display a similar test
pattern and my set still showed ghosting at 480p.
There is NO ghosting when the signal generator outputs 720p or 1080i (jitters),
or when I play my AVIA test pattern at 1024x768 thru VGA PC input.
This suggests the ghosting is introduced by the scaler.

I find it hard to believe that such a costly TV can't scale 480p
to 720p without serious artefacts. My old Toshiba CRT RPTV had no ghosting
when it scaled to 540p or 1080i.

Do I have a defective set?
Is there another brand DLP that does better?
If you've seen and "fixed" this with an upscaling player, what brand?

P.S. Problem is not caused/changed by DVD players, component cables, or DNIE.

How high is too high to place a 5668? My cabinet may put it at 34 inches. In addition would most place the center speaker above or below? The main speakers are on stands 23 inches tall.
Thanks

couple of questions, though I'm sure they might have been asked already, sorry if they have.

1) Do the new sammy 1080p sets use 10bit or 8bit like the previous sets?

2) Are the hl-r5678w sets a slim frame set or just fancy looking?

3) Does anyone know if they will bring the ultra slim case like the hl-r5674w to 1080p or drop themf or the new design?

Thanks in advance! :)

USCB: what did you mean by a "quality power conditioner?" Were you talking about a surge surpressor or a power conditioner?

I fully understand and support the use of surge surpressors on all electronic equipment.

However, I do not understand why you would need a power conditioner with any piece of equipment that has a "properly designed" power supply. This same notion of power conditioning is all over the audio/ home theater boards. From an electronic engineering standpoint, I would like to understand what ground truth is for a power conditioner. Are we talking about brown outs or something like that?

How high is too high to place a 5668? My cabinet may put it at 34 inches. In addition would most place the center speaker above or below? The main speakers are on stands 23 inches tall.
Thanks

The Samsung stand, which puts the center of the screen at eye level, is 19" high. So your stand will put the screen center about 15" above eye level, which sounds to me like it will be too high. One thing you can do, though, is to tilt the set forward a bit (e.g., with a spacer below the back of the base). Just be sure that it is stable with regard to tipping over! (Since I live in earthquake country, I have the velcroe straps from Home Depot that anchor the set to the back wall. This could also be used to secure a forward-tipped set from tipping over.)

I have downloaded the spec sheets and looked at the measurements for the 68 and 78 series TV's. Are there any side shots available for any of the TV's. Basically all these new houses have media niches cut out of the wall for people to put our TV's in. Problem is, mine only measures 55" across. So it limits me to the size of the TV. I know the 56" will fit at 52" inches. The 61" is around 57". However I'm wandering how soon it flares back in after the screen. Is there and inch or two depth, then taper back. Cause then I could just shove it in there and just have the screen part sticking out about and inch or two??? Are there side shots or measurements? Or do I need to wait a couple of weeks and see for myself at BB or CC? Thx


I have the same idea, but I have even less space. I measured the 5067 and the screen part is about 2 1/2 inches thick and then it tapers back drastically. I just wonder if the tvs are really front heavy and this could cause possible tipping problems.

they are not top heavy; you'd have to really push the 5067 to get it to fall over

USCB: what did you mean by a "quality power conditioner?" Were you talking about a surge surpressor or a power conditioner?

I fully understand and support the use of surge surpressors on all electronic equipment.

However, I do not understand why you would need a power conditioner with any piece of equipment that has a "properly designed" power supply. This same notion of power conditioning is all over the audio/ home theater boards. From an electronic engineering standpoint, I would like to understand what ground truth is for a power conditioner. Are we talking about brown outs or something like that?

I meant at least a line conditioner.

Power conditioning can serve many functions. The first is just to protect the equipment. The second function is that it can clean up noise in the electrical supply. This can make a surprising difference in the video PQ. The best analogy I have to this is the effect that you get when you wash a window. I have three HT's and one of them is optimized for 480p. When I added power conditioning on that system, you could easily see the difference in the picture. The random noise in the picture was visibly reduced. The third thing that power conditioning can do, if you have a UPS, is supply power in the event of a power failure. This allows your DLP TV to be shut off in a normal manner. That means that after you turn off the TV the fan will continue to run for a short period of time to continue to cool the bulb down. This will protect your bulb from damage.

You really need to match your power conditioning to your location. My parents have a lake home in MN. The lights routinely go out and flicker. You can't have too much conditioning in that environment. I live in the San Francisco area and just run a Monster power conditioner. But, I'm probably going to add a UPS on all of my systems soon. They have become pretty cheap and repairs and prematurely replacing $200 bulbs are not. Plus each time there has been a power failure, I have wondered if it has affected my bulb.

I have four UPS to support my six computer systems. I can pickup the reports off of these systems and they routinely log problems, even here in SF area.

What UPS would you recommend?

How high is too high to place a 5668? My cabinet may put it at 34 inches. In addition would most place the center speaker above or below? The main speakers are on stands 23 inches tall.
Thanks

Picture quality gradually drops off as you lift the TV above your eye level. I'm using a 31" cabinet. 34" should still be OK (small degradation in PQ). I did a really detailed analysis of viewing angle earlier in this thread (perhaps around page 20 or so). I had photos of how viewing angle affected picture quality for each 5 degrees above eye level. It might be a little tough to locate, but should give you a detailed idea of what to expect.

One thing to remember, the larger the TV the bigger the problem will probably be. This is because the larger TV's can not be adjusted to be as bright as the smaller TV's. This reduces your ability to offset the loss in brightness because of viewing angle.

Remember, it is the viewing angle. Which will be very dependent on your viewing distance.

What UPS would you recommend?

I'm using all APC systems. But, can't make a recommendation because I have not done enough analysis. I know there is a UPS thread somewhere on the forum and I was planning on reviewing that before buying three UPS systems for my HT's. I'm definitely going to get a UPS when I get my new TV (right now, I plan on just leaving my line conditioners between the UPS and the equipment; but, like I said, I haven't done enough research).

couple of questions, though I'm sure they might have been asked already, sorry if they have.

1) Do the new sammy 1080p sets use 10bit or 8bit like the previous sets?

2) Are the hl-r5678w sets a slim frame set or just fancy looking?

3) Does anyone know if they will bring the ultra slim case like the hl-r5674w to 1080p or drop themf or the new design?

Thanks in advance! :)


1) Don't know.
2) Just fancy looking. There are many pictures and dimensions in POST #1 of this thread. But, the dimesions of the 68 and 78 series are the same.
3) The ultra slim bezel cabinet will not be on any 1080p systems in 2005. We have not seen any cabinets for 2006 and beyond. The 2006 models will be shown at CES in early January 2006.

UCSB,

I have a PS Audio Ultimate Outlet and a PS "Juice Bar" (which allows for 6 electrical connections and which will be plugged in to one of the two Ultimate Outlet connections).

The UPS makes a lot of sense (in order to save the bulb in outage situations).

they are not top heavy; you'd have to really push the 5067 to get it to fall over

For some reason I read this as...

"you really have to push the 5067 to get it to fall over."

I thought you were slightly nuts until I re-read the sentence, then I realized that it was I who was slightly nuts. :)

For some reason I read this as...

"you really have to push the 5067 to get it to fall over."

I thought you were slightly nuts until I re-read the sentence, then I realized that it was I who was slightly nuts. :)


:p

Hey all,

First of all, this is a very informative thread. It's resources like AVS that take the anxiety away from plunking $5K on a HT purchase.

I'm really interested in the 88 series. However, 56" is a little too big for my narrow living room, and was hoping for a 50" version. I know that Samsung makes a 5087, but has so far only announced a 5688. Does anyone know if they have plans for a 5088?

Thanks in advance.

The 88 will only come in a 56" size.

Maybe you should consider the 50" HLR5078W. It's a tabletop, but should be nice.