I called Samsung and Vanns and they both said it had the DCDi chip, so I ordered it...coming Thursday...find out today it has the Zoran chip just like the HD850...a couple of owners on the DVD forum open up their boxes and seen it had the Zoran 778 not the DCDi...it's amazing that Samsung verified to me that it had it...Man you can not trust any of the CSR's from samsung. Also I received a email from Samsung engineering/tech and the 68/78 series will not have a 1080P input . Hope they are wrong again. Looks like the Samsung 950 is out...looks like the Oppo is in.

Thanks for the update. It does look like the DVD-HD950 and DVD-HD850 are both using the Zoran 778. This is a change in direction from the prior DVD-HD841 and DVD-HD941 where the DVD-HD941 used the more expensive Faroudja DCDi chip. I own a DVD-HD931 and I was really pulling for Samsung on the DVD-HD950 (and the prior HD941). But, it appears that the combination of chips and processing in the Oppo is better. From the FAQ's on the Oppo site:

Q: What makes OPPO OPDV971H’s picture quality exceptional?
A: The OPPO OPDV971H comes with the Genesis FLI-2310 Faroudja chipset mating with the Mediatek MPEG decoder. This unique combination allows you to get top notch de-interlacing coupled with the extremely responsive core. The Mediatek chipset is also excellent with chroma performance so the Faroudja chipset doesn't have to do much if any filtering. This results in a sharper, crisper overall image.

So I guess, I will be moving the Oppo to the top of my list. I really like the idea of these upshifting players that can provide an all digital path to the TV, but only if they are doing a great job.

After writting my post above, I started thinking a little more about upshifting players and I am wondering if the new 1080p sets will be the first HDTV's where you are better off just sending the TV a digital 480i signal and letting it do all of the processing.

I am wondering if I should add a question to our area of things to test that might read something like this:

7. In selecting a DVD player, will you get a better quality picture if you send the 1080p HDTV a 480i digital feed and let the TV do all of the processing OR by using a upshifting DVD player to send a 1080i digital signal that is deinterlaced to 1080p?

If the HDTV will do a better job with the 480i digital signal, then this could really simplify DVD player selection.

After writting my post above, I started thinking a little more about upshifting players and I am wondering if the new 1080p sets will be the first HDTV's where you are better off just sending the TV a digital 480i signal and letting it do all of the processing.

I am wondering if I should add a question to our area of things to test that might read something like this:

7. In selecting a DVD player, will you get a better quality picture if you send the 1080p HDTV a 480i digital feed and let the TV do all of the processing OR by using a upshifting DVD player to send a 1080i digital signal that is deinterlaced to 1080p?

If the HDTV will do a better job with the 480i digital signal, then this could really simplify DVD player selection.

there is a similar debate in the qualia 006 world where many feel feeding it a 480i signal via hdmi provides the best picture (most are mating it with a sony 975 dvd player).

it makes it really simple b/c there are very few current players that can do 480i via hdmi.

Kirk at TV Authority just posted new delivery dates in the PowerBuy thread:

Here's an update on the 68/88 series ship dates:

HLR5688 - around 7/5
HLR5668/6168 - around 7/25
HLR6768 - around 8/1

Same thing with the 68/78 series...hopefully August :eek:
I was not looking forward to managing my urges btwn the arrival HL-RXX68's and the other 1080p's with which I'd like to compare them. At this rate, everthing could be here at the same time! Good for the patience undecideds :) ; Torture for everyone else :( . OTOH, the other models will probably be late also. ;)

Kirk@TVAuthority just posted the 68 series spec sheet that we have all been waiting for ... I have add the spec sheet to POST #1. It is next to the model and MSRP data at the top of the 68 series area in POST #1. Thanks Kirk!

Herel is a link: 68 Series Specs (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=38632)

If Toshiba sticks to their proposed ship date, Samsung will now lose any first to market advantage they may have held.

I have updated the specs for the HLR6768W in POST #1. They now read:

Lamp: 132W/120W
Brightness: 550

HELP ME YOU CRAZY DLP NERDS!

or.......Hi!

Ok so I'm preparing for DLP love, and I have discovered my cable company is giving me CHOICE when it comes to my cable box. Now I want PVR capabilities so that leaves me with two options:

- SA 8000HD
- SA 8300HD

I was thinking the newer one as it has HDMI (will the audio lag be a problem though? or do you think a receiver correction will be all it needs?)

I'd grab you some links, but you have to login to SA's site to get tech specs, if you really need them I'll grab the PDF's and host them.

- D

EDIT:

Here's some basic info, if you want more I'll grab it:

8300HD: http://www.scientificatlanta.com/consumers_new/CableBoxes/8300hd.htm
800HD http://www.scientificatlanta.com/consumers_new/CableBoxes/8000hd.htm

HELP ME YOU CRAZY DLP NERDS!

or.......Hi!

Ok so I'm preparing for DLP love, and I have discovered my cable company is giving me CHOICE when it comes to my cable box. Now I want PVR capabilities so that leaves me with two options:

- SA 8000HD
- SA 8300HD

I was thinking the newer one as it has HDMI (will the audio lag be a problem though? or do you think a receiver correction will be all it needs?)

I'd grab you some links, but you have to login to SA's site to get tech specs, if you really need them I'll grab the PDF's and host them.

- D

D, I don't know if you are following the HLRxx67W owners thread, but many with the 67 series have the SA8300. You might want to see what their experiences have been.

I've added the following question to items we will want to test in POST #1:

7. In selecting a DVD player, will you get a better quality picture if you send the 1080p HDTV a 480i digital feed and let the TV do all of the processing OR by using a upshifting DVD player to send a 1080i digital signal that is deinterlaced to 1080p?

Same thing with the 68/78 series...hopefully August :eek:

That sucks for all the folks that wanted them by July. But this works for me, as my new house won't be ready till mid to late August! Which means I can wait on the order a little bit longer to be farther down the list and have it delivered straight to my house at the perfect time!

If Toshiba sticks to their proposed ship date, Samsung will now lose any first to market advantage they may have held.

I think Samsung goofed on this bigtime. I am one of those who didn't purchase the HLP series because I wanted to wait for the 1080P sets. I am sure there are plenty of people like me. By not delivering on the HLR xx68 series they are not only allowing the competition to have bragging rights, but are at risk of losing customers altogether.

Further - if they are to announce some other new stuff (like 1080P input over HDMI) at the CES show in January '06, they will make lots more people simply put off their TV purchases till the dust settles.

Obviously, I am a patient guy having waited this long - but even my patience is wearing thin.

- SA 8000HD
- SA 8300HD

Get the 8300HD. No doubt. The box has more memory and is much more stable and faster than the 8000HD. I don't even have an hdtv yet and I swapped my 8000dvr out for an 8300HD box and the difference is enormous.

Someone fill me in on this delay thing? Is it confirmed, what's the details? I"ve been hunting through the thread but would like some clarification?

- D

I was just discussing warranties with my installer, and he suggested that I didn't need a extended warranty and that he wasn't a fan of them either. He says the biggest thing that goes on these TV's is the bulb, and a lot of times manufactuers only give a 90 day warranty on the bulb, yet a 2 year warranty on the TV itself.

thoughts/

- D

...

Further - if they are to announce some other new stuff (like 1080P input over HDMI) at the CES show in January '06, they will make lots more people simply put off their TV purchases till the dust settles.


From the new 68 spec sheet fine print on the bottom of page 1:
Currently, HDMI, DVI and Component inputs can only accept up to 1080i signals.

Note the word Currently . We need to use the coming month to clarify this statement per field upgrades. I too would postpone/cancel my current PB if I knew I had more of a selection and that Samsung was going to start shipping 1080p HDMI devices near term that the current models could not support.

After writting my post above, I started thinking a little more about upshifting players and I am wondering if the new 1080p sets will be the first HDTV's where you are better off just sending the TV a digital 480i signal and letting it do all of the processing.

I am wondering if I should add a question to our area of things to test that might read something like this:

7. In selecting a DVD player, will you get a better quality picture if you send the 1080p HDTV a 480i digital feed and let the TV do all of the processing OR by using a upshifting DVD player to send a 1080i digital signal that is deinterlaced to 1080p?

If the HDTV will do a better job with the 480i digital signal, then this could really simplify DVD player selection.

But then you may just invoke the dreaded sync delay. In this case the TV is busy doing all this processing and your sound system gets through with its chores earlier. Then the sound is out of sync with the picture.

With the DVD sending out 1080i (or even better 1080p) at the same time as the sound, you have a better chance of getting both sound and picture at the same time. In one case the TV does nothing and in the other a small de-interlacing.

I was hoping to try this out with my new 5668 and DVD950 but with the new July 25th dates that all may be moot.

Did we confirm if the 68 series uses Faroudja deinterlacing? I was wanting to confirm since we learned the HD950 may not have DCDi. If the 68 series does use Faroudja deinterlacing, then a 1080i signal from the HD950 might still be very nice on say a 6168 that would deinterlace to 1080p. I say this about the HD950 because I always thought that DCDi was mainly for deinterlacing which I wouldn't think would be used if the DVD player is sending a 1080i signal vs. say a 720p signal. I may be completely wrong though, lol.

But then you may just invoke the dreaded sync delay. In this case the TV is busy doing all this processing and your sound system gets through with its chores earlier. Then the sound is out of sync with the picture.

That certainly is a possiblity. I guess the best approach is to wait and evaluate these types of issues after the TV's are available.

If Toshiba sticks to their proposed ship date, Samsung will now lose any first to market advantage they may have held.

I think the Toshiba's are expected in the Sept/Oct timeframe. It still looks like Samsung will beat them to market by a month or so.

Thanks, Bud.
We're both looking for real world use for the 1080p sets.

The 6168 wont be available till early July, from reliable sources at Samsung

The 6168 wont be available till early July, from reliable sources at Samsung


Actually, early August would be more accurate - with a remote chance of late July. But i wouldn't bet on any specific date until i physically saw them at a dealer or in a warehouse.

Kirk at TV Authority just posted new delivery dates in the PowerBuy thread:

Here's an update on the 68/88 series ship dates:

HLR5688 - around 7/5
HLR5668/6168 - around 7/25
HLR6768 - around 8/1

That sucks like my Spurs 2nd half perfomance in game 3 2night! :(

Samsung better deliver in July or I will cancell my TVA PB & go else where for my HDTV purchase.

I believe the expected dates in post #1 should be changed to remove 'June' as a possibility for at least some of the HL-R's. Today, I've received two independent expected dates of July for the 6168. One was from Magnolia in San Ramon, CA (July), and the other was from a well-known bay area home theatre installer (mid-July).

Samsung better deliver in July or I will cancell my TVA PB & go else where for my HDTV purchase.

If you want 1080p, where else you gonna go? Or are you gonna wait for other mfgs to start shipping in Sept/Oct?

If you want 1080p, where else you gonna go? Are are you gonna wait for other mfgs to start shipping in Sept/Oct?


I would sincerely hope so. Or even November. Why would you limit your choice to one brand when at least a half dozen, many of whom could very well be superior are going to hit the street within a month or two of each other? You could buy a pig-in-a-poke (the 1st 1080P set out) and decide you like it better than any other brand after seeing the rest come out, or, more likely, buy something and regret it as you see a few of the others that you like more when they hit the street. If you wait to see all the 1080P options coming this Fall, even if you eventually wind up buying the one that was out 1st, you'll get a bonus by waiting anyway. You'll get it for a better price, since the competiton will be fierce.

I read that the xx68 series all feature a floating picture (in that there is a small base which the screen is then connected do, giving the screen a bit of a raised feel).

However when I look at pictures of the 56" 5668 series (table-top) it looks like one connected piece (no floating screen). Does anyone know whether the 56" screen does indeed "float"?

I would sincerely hope so. Or even November. Why would you limit your choice to one brand when at least a half dozen, many of whom could very well be superior are going to hit the street within a month or two of each other? You could buy a pig-in-a-poke (the 1st 1080P set out) and decide you like it better than any other brand after seeing the rest come out, or, more likely, buy something and regret it as you see a few of the others that you like more when they hit the street. If you wait to see all the 1080P options coming this Fall, even if you eventually wind up buying the one that was out 1st, you'll get a bonus by waiting anyway. You'll get it for a better price, since the competiton will be fierce.

I need to have my TV in place before the new TV and football season starts. The Samsung sets are the only 1080P sets that will be out in time. Plus with the Powerbuy, the price is too good to pass up.

I've updated the 68 / 78 series released dates from June/July to July in POST #1. I am considering updating the release date for the larger screen sizes (67", 71") to read July/August.

I read that the xx68 series all feature a floating picture (in that there is a small base which the screen is then connected do, giving the screen a bit of a raised feel).

However when I look at pictures of the 56" 5668 series (table-top) it looks like one connected piece (no floating screen). Does anyone know whether the 56" screen does indeed "float"?

If you go to POST #1 in the thread, you will find many photos of both the xx68 series and xx78 series. In addition, there are technical drawings of each TV showing all dimensions (including the gaps between the base and pedestal). The xx68 screen appears to be floating above it's base. But, it is obviously connected to the base. The 56" has the floating screen design.

Hi Peter ... schaffer970 noticed the manuals for the 64 series units on the FCC site a month or so ago. Perhaps if you search this thread you can find the links. I didn't added them to POST #1 because it was not clear where they were going to be sold. Perhaps I should add a little Canada only section to POST #1 with a few links.

ADDED: Here is schaffer970's original 64 series post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5672113&&#post5672113

UCSB

Thanks for this, and great job putting Post #1 together.

Peter

I would sincerely hope so. Or even November. Why would you limit your choice to one brand when at least a half dozen, many of whom could very well be superior are going to hit the street within a month or two of each other? You could buy a pig-in-a-poke (the 1st 1080P set out) and decide you like it better than any other brand after seeing the rest come out, or, more likely, buy something and regret it as you see a few of the others that you like more when they hit the street. If you wait to see all the 1080P options coming this Fall, even if you eventually wind up buying the one that was out 1st, you'll get a bonus by waiting anyway. You'll get it for a better price, since the competiton will be fierce.

Your approach to wait for every model to be introduced and then carefully compare each one is one viable approach. But, not without it's own risks. There are other good approaches as well. After the Samsungs are released, if someone goes down and carefully looks at the TVs and likes what they see, they certainly can make an informed purchasing decision. There are AVSforum members following this thread that have detailed knowledge of these sets and are totally qualified to make a purchasing decision after viewing the performance of the new Samsung models. Many have carefully reviewed the Qualia 006 to form a baseline for comparison. In addition, people that are interested in other models can gather information on those models and try to determine which models they would be interested in waiting to see.

What are the risks of waiting?

Well, one obvious one is that while you are being hard on Samsung in terms of release time, you seem to be willing to assume all of the other manufacturers will be delivering their sets on time. This may not be the case and someone may be waiting an additional five or six months to make a comparison.

Another factor that you seem to be minimizing is brand loyality. Many people waiting for the Samsung models have had good experiences with Samsung and want another Samsung set.

Not everyone is going to be interested in all of the other manufacturers. I have my own personal list of competing manufacturers that I am evaluating and I have decided that I am just not interested certain manufacturers and models.

One huge risk, if it takes you until late fall (Nov) to compare everything you are very close to early Jan and CES 2006. It seems to me that if you are looking in November and December there would be a huge incentive to wait and see what is going to happen at CES.

Finally, many people that have been following this thread will have been waiting up to eight months for these models to arrive. That seems long enough to me. Others are stepping up from 27" sets and other older models. Waiting another four or five months to evaluate small differences in performance between 1080p sets may not make sense to them. Others want to get their new sets and start enjoying them (new homes, fall TV season, fall sports, etc.).

Waiting to see all of the models may be viable for some and I certainly don't want to argue against that approach for those people. But, moving forward with purchases will make sense for many others.

After writting my post above, I started thinking a little more about upshifting players and I am wondering if the new 1080p sets will be the first HDTV's where you are better off just sending the TV a digital 480i signal and letting it do all of the processing.

I am wondering if I should add a question to our area of things to test that might read something like this:

7. In selecting a DVD player, will you get a better quality picture if you send the 1080p HDTV a 480i digital feed and let the TV do all of the processing OR by using a upshifting DVD player to send a 1080i digital signal that is deinterlaced to 1080p?

If the HDTV will do a better job with the 480i digital signal, then this could really simplify DVD player selection.

but aren't the Samsungs notourious for having audio sync delays on 480i signals while the TV upconverts the signal to it's native res ?

but aren't the Samsungs notourious for having audio sync delays on 480i signals while the TV upconverts the signal to it's native res ?

I agree, the 480i approach could introduce sync issues. I guess we will just have to run a test once the new sets are available comparing the upshifting DVD players (1080i) to letting the TV do the upshifting. I've added this comparison the the section in POST #1 of this thread where we list items that we will want to test and understand once the new TV's are available.

but aren't the Samsungs notourious for having audio sync delays on 480i signals while the TV upconverts the signal to it's native res ?Only in the realm of URBAN LEGEND.

There are audio sync and game lag issues reported with just about every major brand (do a search of this forum or the web!), not just Samsung. It has been much postulated and many times repeated that the TV upconversion process could be the culprit. However, even though we've had new sets coming on line daily, no one seems to have done a definitive test to prove or disprove the statement. It seems odd unless you assume most of the folks with new sets have upconverting DVD players and do not want to deal with 480i, or most folks expect that HDMI would yield the best PQ and there are few DVD players that allow 480i over HDMI, or whatever. The point is there is no definitive proof for the statement. It's interesting to browse the xx67 owners thread and the Samsung Lip Sync thread. Issues are reported but they seem to correlate more with the source of the signal feed to the TV rather than the TV itself.

That said, UCSB's response is undoubtedly the most practical, least argumentative and likely the only way to end the discussion, though I do not see why there is a need to wait for the 1080p's to do the testing. If I owned a Samsung set, I'd gladly test so UCSB could post the result in Post #1 and we'd be done with it.

I would sincerely hope so. Or even November. Why would you limit your choice to one brand when at least a half dozen, many of whom could very well be superior are going to hit the street within a month or two of each other?

I agree. Many posters in this forum are not as patient as you and I.

wow! I've finally made it through all the pages in this thread. Yeah, I haven't gotten much work done the last few days, but I'm much more informed on Sammy DLPs!!!

On a whim, I stopped by 6th Ave electronics yesterday, and the HLR5087 looked stunning, while watching the Yankees on YES HD. Better than the Sonys, JVCs, Tosh's, etc.

It seems the pedestal models do have a bit better pic quality than the others.

There doesn't seem to be a 5687. Is that true? Why would that be?

Thanks to UCSB and others for all their hard work!!

From what I've seen, the OPPO does not allow you to play SACDs, while the Samsung 950 is truly "universal." Confirm or deny?

I definitely want a universal DVD player when I go HD (I have a Toshiba 6915 now), but the talk of the differences in the chipsets between the OPPO and the 950 cause me some concern.

Why is the DCDi chip considered superior?

Thanks!

also, my budget is around $2,500 (gee, I wish it were $15k!!!), and I have to sell a guitar and a vintage amp to get it :(

I'm now in between the 5667 and the 5087. I'll be about 9 ft. away from the screen.

Comments, suggestions?

Thanks!
goMO

maybe I spoke (typed) too quickly. Should I consider the HLP5685? are the diffs between that and the HLR just the cable card and atsc tuner?

maybe I spoke (typed) too quickly. Should I consider the HLP5685? are the diffs between that and the HLR just the cable card and atsc tuner?

And here I was being totally impressed that you read this thread through. Alas - you failed the test. :p

HLP 5685 has the 1-1 pixel mapping HD2+ chipset (sharper image). HLR 5667 has the wobulation chipset (more movie-like image). The contrast ratio is the same but there are some differences in the input ports - only 1 HDMI and no DVI on the HLR 5667. This is in addition to the differences that you mention (cable card ready and ATSC tuner).

wow! I've finally made it through all the pages in this thread. Yeah, I haven't gotten much work done the last few days, but I'm much more informed on Sammy DLPs!!!

On a whim, I stopped by 6th Ave electronics yesterday, and the HLR5087 looked stunning, while watching the Yankees on YES HD. Better than the Sonys, JVCs, Tosh's, etc.

It seems the pedestal models do have a bit better pic quality than the others.

There doesn't seem to be a 5687. Is that true? Why would that be?

Thanks to UCSB and others for all their hard work!!

Thanks goMo ... the 5687 has not been released (and may not be). At 56" in a pedestal model, you have the new 5688 (above your budget) and last years 5685 (a great TV that you might be able to find on closeout). The 5667 (and smaller sizes are in your budget). Costco was closing out the HLP5674W with the Samsung stand for about $500 - $600 less than your budget (I don't know if there are any left). A great deal and it has the HD2+ chip that is in the 5087 and 5685 that you like.

On the "buy now vs. wait" subject: I have my eye on one of these Samsungs and am very tempted to go ahead and Add To Cart.

My only hesitation is the fact that the initial shipments of the sets will be "rev 1" of these models. Is it wise to wait a bit for new model issues to be ironed out (like manufacturing or design issues, etc) or is that being a bit too cautious?

I'm not in any particular hurry, though the way I look at it, the sooner I buy, the more time I have to enjoy the thing.

From what I've seen, the OPPO does not allow you to play SACDs, while the Samsung 950 is truly "universal." Confirm or deny?

I definitely want a universal DVD player when I go HD (I have a Toshiba 6915 now), but the talk of the differences in the chipsets between the OPPO and the 950 cause me some concern.

Why is the DCDi chip considered superior?

Thanks!

The lack of the Faroudja DCDi chip in the 950 is an open issue. It has not been resolved yet, at least from my perspective on the 1080p sets. The DVD player will upshift the movie to 1080i and send it to the TV. The TV will deinterlace the movie, creating 1080p and display it. The Faroudja DCDi chip is very good at the deinterlace step. So the effect of not having the Faroudja DCDi chip in the Samsung 950 has not been determined yet. Perhaps it won't matter, or perhaps some of the other processing the Faroudja chip is doing will make a difference. We just don't know.

Unfortunately, what DVD player to use to optimize the picture on the new 1080p sets is still an open question.

[NOTE: if you are using a 720p display, the lack of the Faroudja chip could potentially make a larger difference]

also, my budget is around $2,500 (gee, I wish it were $15k!!!)...
Gee, my budget is $15K; I wish it were $50K. On reading these threads, I realized I can't even afford decent cabling: http://www.nbscables.com/products/new.html ;)

Gee, my budget is $15K; I wish it were $50K. On reading these threads, I realized I can't even afford decent cabling: http://www.nbscables.com/products/new.html ;)

Maybe you could trade your car for 12' of speaker cable. :D :D :D

On the "buy now vs. wait" subject: I have my eye on one of these Samsungs and am very tempted to go ahead and Add To Cart.

My only hesitation is the fact that the initial shipments of the sets will be "rev 1" of these models. Is it wise to wait a bit for new model issues to be ironed out (like manufacturing or design issues, etc) or is that being a bit too cautious?

I'm not in any particular hurry, though the way I look at it, the sooner I buy, the more time I have to enjoy the thing.

In past Samsung DLP models, they have rev'd the firmware during the production process. Owners have compared firmware releases when discussing problems. The problem with waiting for firmware releases in my opinion is: 1) there does not seem to be any schedule of releases; 2) I have never seen a list of issues addressed in the firmware releases anywhere; 3) (owners help me here) I can not remember seeing a post where the firmware made a documented difference in PQ. My own viewing of these sets, even the one that I own (which is a rev1 set), did not show any noticable difference over the production run.

Don't misunderstand me, I think firmware is critical on these sets. I just can't ever remember a case where a noticable difference in performance was a result. The one case where firmware made a difference in set operation, was the inclusion of discrete IR codes on early HLN models. In this case owners could ask Samsung to upgrade their electronics for free.

Existing owners and long-time AVS members, please correct me if this is wrong.

Gee, my budget is $15K; I wish it were $50K. On reading these threads, I realized I can't even afford decent cabling: http://www.nbscables.com/products/new.html ;)

that is insane...but it does make all the other expenses involved in this hobby/addiction pale in comparison :)

In past Samsung DLP models, they have rev'd the firmware during the production process.

I would not be concerned about firmware as much as actual changes in the electronics or manufacturing practices associated with set revisions. Was it a recent Samsung or JVC model where people wanted to make sure that the delivered set had a date of manufacture after Jan 2005 because a known problem was eliminated with that production run? Again, this type of change is typically not scheduled and there's no way to know if revisions would ever be made. I would not be concerned about getting a first run with a company like Samsung which, according to most folks in this thread with experience, has been quick to replace a model that has an un-fixable problem or deficiency (real or otherwise).

My apologies if this has already been discussed here or elsewhere, but I was just rereading post #1 again to see what information has been changed/updated/added and I found myself asking the same nagging question, are there any plans on Samsung's part to release a 3-chip set or are they sticking with color wheels forever (which in their business is probably just a few years :) ).

Also, is there a non-wobbulating DLP chip; if so, any plans on Samsung's part to use them in future sets?

In past Samsung DLP models, they have rev'd the firmware during the production process.

I hadn't thought of firmware versions (some interesting comments though), but things like "when we used Acme Glue #123 on assembly X, the color wheel was squeaky, so in Rev 2 we started using Elmers #456."

My other concern is if there are any goofy design issues, though those aren't as likely to be addressed within a particular model I suppose. A friend who was shopping for a Samsung a while back found that one of the sets couldn't take 480i and 480p signals on the same input, making early X-Box usage difficult.

I think my approach will be to just monitor this thread once people start getting their 6168's and see if there are any major gotchas in the first couple of weeks.

Don't misunderstand me, I think firmware is critical on these sets. I just can't ever remember a case where a noticable difference in performance was a result. The one case where firmware made a difference in set operation, was the inclusion of discrete IR codes on early HLN models. In this case owners could ask Samsung to upgrade their electronics for free.
I think Samsung supplied the part but not the labor (~$200).

The HLP sets have had some discrete command fixes (HDMI added), and I think CCA might have been added to the SM after the early firmware version -- that really need confirmation to become a fact. :rolleyes:

SethS has been training field engineers to install revised firmware versions. I think he would have upgraded mine (October 1035) if it had been an earlier version.

My apologies if this has already been discussed here or elsewhere, but I was just rereading post #1 again to see what information has been changed/updated/added and I found myself asking the same nagging question, are there any plans on Samsung's part to release a 3-chip set or are they sticking with color wheels forever (which in their business is probably just a few years :) ).

Also, is there a non-wobbulating DLP chip; if so, any plans on Samsung's part to use them in future sets?

There are two non-wobbulated product lines in 2005: HLRxx77W and HLRxx87W, which use last years HD2+. There have been reports that there is a new version of this chip out, or coming out. So it will be possible to see new 720p products in 2006 with the new 720p chip.

There has not been a single report from Samsung about a three chip consumer level DLP RPTV.

Given Moore's Law in semiconductors, I would think that a non-wobbulated 1080p chip would be a possiblity in 2006 or 2007 (just a guess on my part!!!!).

wish_i_had_hdtv,

I didn't say I digested it all, I just said I read it all ;)

so basically, we're saying that the HLP model with the HD2+ chip will have the same picture as the HLR**87 model with the same chip. Differences are not pq related, just input,etc related.
True?

(I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'd prefer the 56" set with the HD2+ chip in my price range, and the least expensive way to get it may be the HLP5685 model.)

There are two non-wobbulated product lines in 2005: HLRxx77W and HLRxx87W, which use last years HD2+. There have been reports that there is a new version of this chip out, or coming out. So it will be possible to see new 720p products in 2006 with the new 720p chip.

There has not been a single report from Samsung about a three chip consumer level DLP RPTV.

Given Moore's Law in semiconductors, I would think that a non-wobbulated 1080p chip would be a possiblity in 2006 or 2007 (just a guess on my part!!!!).

I was only referring to 1080p when asking about non-wobbulated sets. I didn't think wobbulation was used on 720p sets at all; when did they start wobbulating at 720p?

I was only referring to 1080p when asking about non-wobbulated sets. I didn't think wobbulation was used on 720p sets at all; when did they start wobbulating at 720p?

They started using wobbulation in 2004 with the HD3 on the HLPxx63W series, their highest volume product. This year a revised chip the HD4 (our name) is used in the HLRxx67W's.

They started using wobbulation in 2004 with the HD3 on the HLPxx63W series, their highest volume product. This year a revised chip the HD4 (our name) is used in the HLRxx67W's.


I see; I have an ancient HLN series :)

wish_i_had_hdtv,

I didn't say I digested it all, I just said I read it all ;)

so basically, we're saying that the HLP model with the HD2+ chip will have the same picture as the HLR**87 model with the same chip. Differences are not pq related, just input,etc related.
True?

(I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'd prefer the 56" set with the HD2+ chip in my price range, and the least expensive way to get it may be the HLP5685 model.)

I think the HLPxx85W would be close to the HLRxx87W. The HLPxx74W / HLRxx77W use a different light engine and a six (vs seven) segment color wheel yielding a slightly different color space and a slightly lower contrast ratio (>2000:1 vs 2500:1). They are all nice sets and you can compare them to the HLRxx67W.

Well at least my installers' on board for my tentative purchase of the DLP. He said he'll do a quick ISF calibration at the beginning for me, and a thorough one a few months later, all for free, WOOT!

- D

While I am waiting an extra long time for my 68 can someone point me towards info on other (non-samsung) 1080p sets coming this year just in case my wife or I see rainbows when we get the set in our house? I am set on the 68 from TVA but don't want to be scrambling just in case it doesn't work out. Besides I have a long time to wait for my set now :( Perhaps UCSB could add smaller mini-sections on other 1080p sets to give us all a basis for comparison.

Thanks

While I am waiting an extra long time for my 68 can someone point me towards info on other (non-samsung) 1080p sets coming this year ...
Here are few I had readily at hand:
JVC D'ILA http://www.dtvcity.com/jvc-projection/jvc-hd61fh96.html
Toshiba dlp http://www.ultimateavmag.com/news/052305toshiba/
Toshiba dlp http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/05-19-2005/0003639403&EDATE=
Mitsubishi dlp http://ultimateavmag.com/news/041805Mits/
Mitsubishi dlp http://www.audioholics.com/news/pressreleases/Mitsubishi1080pDLPHDTVs.php

There are rumors of a 1080p Sony "LCD" possibly of Qualia technology but I've seen nothing in the press. LG is suppose to have both dlp and LCOS 1080p displays but again I have no references.

Take care... This might be considered "off topic!"

From what I've seen, the OPPO does not allow you to play SACDs, while the Samsung 950 is truly "universal." Confirm or deny?

I definitely want a universal DVD player when I go HD (I have a Toshiba 6915 now), but the talk of the differences in the chipsets between the OPPO and the 950 cause me some concern.

Why is the DCDi chip considered superior?

Thanks!



Cetesq, check out my post here for a mini-review of the HD950:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5764094#post5764094

Desertdawg,

Just two quick questions (not wanting to hijack this thread)...

I assume it also does DVD-Audio? And, are there bass management features available in the player? Thanks...

I guess wobulation is all the craze now. I know the Toshiba sets will at most accept a 1080i signal. What is the maximum resolution HDMI can take? From the links above it says it can't do 1080p at 60 fps but DVI can.

Here are few I had readily at hand:
JVC D'ILA http://www.dtvcity.com/jvc-projection/jvc-hd61fh96.html
Toshiba dlp http://www.ultimateavmag.com/news/052305toshiba/
Toshiba dlp http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/05-19-2005/0003639403&EDATE=
Mitsubishi dlp http://ultimateavmag.com/news/041805Mits/
Mitsubishi dlp http://www.audioholics.com/news/pressreleases/Mitsubishi1080pDLPHDTVs.php

There are rumors of a 1080p Sony "LCD" possibly of Qualia technology but I've seen nothing in the press. LG is suppose to have both dlp and LCOS 1080p displays but again I have no references.

Take care... This might be considered "off topic!"

the rumored Sony 1080p 50"/60" tv's based on Qualia are actually LCoS not LCD, based on the SXRD Qualia 006. Sony also has a qualia 005 which is LCD. LCD is different from LC0S. I'm really interested in the hlr5688 but on the fence because someone has said that the upcoming sony LCoS tv's will have 1080p inputs, unlike the majority of other 1080p tv's that max out at 1080i input

1080p input is nice but I don't think I can handle the Sony price. But if HDMI can't handle 1080p at 60 fps what's the point? I hope all these upcoming sets will have great scalers, line doublers, etc. etc.

HDMI can handle 1080p60. The issue is which sets will have a chipset which will accept it. Apparently most will not; I hope that manufacturers see how much this means to high-end consumers and opt to include it.

Does any one here have experience calibrating the latest Samsung HD RPTVs on the market and accessing their service menus?

I have extensive experience calibrating my Sharp 10K front pj in the service menu with all the gain/offset params, but have never tinkered like this inside of an RPTVs service menus. I use ColorFacts with the EyeOne for this.

Since the HLR xx68 series is not out yet, perhaps someone can speculate on the following for, assuming the service menu and user controls for calibration will work very similarly in the HLR xx68 series as compared to previous Samsung HD RPTVs?

1) What types of calibration settings are available in the user menu, besides the typical color,contrast,brightness,tint,hue etc. For example, how about gains and offset for R G and B - you know the various settings needed to adjust grayscale and gamma?

2) Same question as #1, except specific to the *service* menu (as opposed to the user menu).

3) How does one access the service menu?

4) The Sharp 10K is very responsive to the grayscale changes and therefore quite easy to calibrate to (or at least very close to) D65. If one is not a professional yet knows what they are doing, is the Samsung xx68 series likely to calibrate as easily or are they known for being trickier?

5) If there is a detailed breakdown some where of the various settings and menus available in the service menu, can you post the URL?

Thanks!

Has anyone had experience with ridiculously low prices from amazon marketplace? I placed an order for an HLR5067W with them, but am a little bit nervous of the price being so low.

Does any one here have experience calibrating the latest Samsung HD RPTVs on the market and accessing their service menus?

I have extensive experience calibrating my Sharp 10K front pj in the service menu with all the gain/offset params, but have never tinkered like this inside of an RPTVs service menus. I use ColorFacts with the EyeOne for this.

Since the HLR xx68 series is not out yet, perhaps someone can speculate on the following for, assuming the service menu and user controls for calibration will work very similarly in the HLR xx68 series as compared to previous Samsung HD RPTVs?

1) What types of calibration settings are available in the user menu, besides the typical color,contrast,brightness,tint,hue etc. For example, how about gains and offset for R G and B - you know the various settings needed to adjust grayscale and gamma?

2) Same question as #1, except specific to the *service* menu (as opposed to the user menu).

3) How does one access the service menu?

4) The Sharp 10K is very responsive to the grayscale changes and therefore quite easy to calibrate to (or at least very close to) D65. If one is not a professional yet knows what they are doing, is the Samsung xx68 series likely to calibrate as easily or are they known for being trickier?

5) If there is a detailed breakdown some where of the various settings and menus available in the service menu, can you post the URL?

Thanks!

There are two threads in the RPTV area that deal with the service menu settings and calibrating an HLRxx67W. One thread has all of the setting for the HDMI input. I don't have links, but you should be able to find them because they have been active in the past few days.

In terms of user menu options, we have links in POST #1 of this thread to both the HLRxx67W manuals and the HLR5688W preliminary manual which cover all of the user settings. But, the way this works is that there are some preset picture modes, you select one of these. Then you can adjust the basic settings like brightness, sharpness, color, etc.

Perhaps UCSB could add smaller mini-sections on other 1080p sets to give us all a basis for comparison. Thanks

I'll think about adding a section in the FAQ area listing all 1080p sets. A few months ago, I was thinking of starting a thread listing all of the 1080p DLP's, but decided the task was too large to do a quality job. But, now that many manufacturers have released PR's with some of their models described, it would be easier (but, less useful).

I'll think about the FAQ.

Has anyone had experience with ridiculously low prices from amazon marketplace? I placed an order for an HLR5067W with them, but am a little bit nervous of the price being so low.

If the price was too low, it is a rip off. Cancel your order immediately. IMHO, you absolutely do not want to buy an expensive DLP TV from amazon marketplace.

If the price was too low, it is a rip off. Cancel your order immediately. IMHO, you absolutely do not want to buy an expensive DLP TV from amazon marketplace.

Thanks for the reply. I can't seem to cancel the order :mad: maybe I put the quickpay...I'll probably get screwed, but I'm hoping the A to Z plan will protect me.

Thanks for the reply. I can't seem to cancel the order :mad: maybe I put the quickpay...I'll probably get screwed, but I'm hoping the A to Z plan will protect me.

It will take a few months to get your money back on the A to Z plan ... send a email to the vendor canceling your order. Call your credit card company and see if they have charged your card, if not, put your credit card on hold.

Desertdawg,

Just two quick questions (not wanting to hijack this thread)...

I assume it also does DVD-Audio? And, are there bass management features available in the player? Thanks...

Donb1948,
Yes, it plays DVD-Audio. I have not found any bass management features available. There are some audio settings such as Dynamic Compression (On/Off), PCM down sampling (On/Off), and surround sound speaker setup.

Desertdawg

Will do. Thanks!
Sad to get my dreams of an ultra-cheap hd set shattered :( but I should've known better.

Milmanias, are you saying that you went with the $850 HLR5067 from "davesewell3"? I don't want to rub salt in the wound but when everyone else is selling this just released TV for $2100 how could $850 possibly be legit? Notice that all of the feedback is 5 stars and all provided withion the past 3 weeks so that is a bit suspect. This is obviously a one person seller so how could he possibly get a HLR5067 from Samsung at a low enough cost to resell it for $850. In order to undercut the other resellers he would only need to sell at $1500-200, not $850. That is unless it fell off the back of a truck, was stolen, etc. If "davesewell3" is a fly-by-night Amazon Marketplace vendor I would not count on being protected by the A to Z plan which Amazon defers to the buyer and seller to duke it out. My advise would be to figure out a way to cancel payment unless you want to take your chances on getting the TV for $850 and risk it being damaged or an empty box.

IF he put it on a credit card with fraud protection (almost all of them) he can file a fraud report with his credit card company. They will put the item in dispute and remove the charge from his bill.

Milmanias, are you saying that you went with the $850 HLR5067 from "davesewell3"? I don't want to rub salt in the wound but when everyone else is selling this just released TV for $2100 how could $850 possibly be legit? Notice that all of the feedback is 5 stars and all provided within the past 3 weeks so that is a bit suspect. This is obviously a one person seller so how could he possibly get a HLR5067 from Samsung at a low enough cost to resell it for $850. In order to undercut the other resellers he would only need to sell at $1500-2000, not $850. That is unless it fell off the back of a truck, was stolen, etc. If "davesewell3" is a fly-by-night Amazon Marketplace vendor I would not count on being protected by the A to Z plan which Amazon defers to the buyer and seller to duke it out. My advice would be to figure out a way to cancel payment unless you want to take your chances on getting the TV for $850 and risk it being damaged or an empty box.

You can't protect someone who thinks they can get a set that's selling all over the internet for between $2,000- @$2,100 (there was actually a weekend sale from an East Coast Big Box Dealer where it was available for $1,900 & change during the sale -the lowest price i've seen. Some people have told me if you were a sharp buyer, you could do $1,900 & change at a few spots still), for $850! My God! What could he be thinking?

Does any one here have experience calibrating the latest Samsung HD RPTVs on the market and accessing their service menus?
Here are some interesting links:

Don't let the "Subject" fool you.
DLP's Dark Secret Problem ? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=543222&page=1&pp=30)

Just got my Samsung DLP calibrated! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=542709&page=1&pp=30)

Yes indeed, but many scammers won't accept credit cards because of this and want to use Western Union instead.

One more (maybe last) word on this topic....

Never ever send/pay for anything via Western Union unless it's someone you know personally on the other end! Payment thru Western Union is equivalent to giving some one a wad of cash in real time. Once they are out the door it is not traceable.

Last week on the evening news, they had a series on old folks (oops, seniors) being swindled out of money by a bunch of characters running the "Lottery" scam out of Montreal Canada. All the money goes through Western Union. Even knowing this and with attempts to stop it, the police estimate that over 60% of Western Union money payments in Montreal are associated with fraud. Buyer beware.

You can't protect someone who thinks they can get a set that's selling all over the internet for between $2,000- @$2,100 (there was actually a weekend sale from an East Coast Big Box Dealer where it was available for $1,900 & change during the sale -the lowest price i've seen. Some people have told me if you were a sharp buyer, you could do $1,900 & change at a few spots still), for $850! My God! What could he be thinking?

Amazon's A to Z protection is reliable, I've spoken with a few people that have used it. I knew going in it was a risk, but I am counting on both Amazon's and the credit card's protection. If I believe the only risk is having to wait 2 or 3 months to get the money back, why not try to see if it's real, in the offchance it was?

Anyway, I have emailed Amazon with the potential fraud.

No one here knows a place that does price matching online, right?

Donb1948,
...I have not found any bass management features available. ... surround sound speaker setup.

Desertdawg... I downloaded the manual. The bass management features are under the "surround sound speaker setup" menu. It allows setting a low pass cutoff for the sub by setting "size" of the f/c/s speakers. However, it does not say what the cutoff frequency is. I assume it's 80 hz. Thanks for checking.

Another AVSForum post indicates that forthcoming LG 1080p sets will have the Silicon Images chip that allows for 1080p input.

If I believe the only risk is having to wait 2 or 3 months to get the money back, why not try to see if it's real, in the offchance it was?
What are the odds of "impossible" being true? :)

An unending supply of "impossible dreamers" show up here at AVS on a regular basis. Some of them ask first, and others ask after they have taken the "deal".

The protection that you are depending on works pretty well if the company intends to stay in business. If they grab the cash and run before the credit card companies can stop the transaction then I'm not so sure you are protected. You may be, but I wouldn't take it as a given. I sure wouldn't want to hope for that kind of protection more than once. :o

Another AVSForum post indicates that forthcoming LG 1080p sets will have the Silicon Images chip that allows for 1080p input.

Quite probably others will also accept 1080P through HDMI as well as LG and Sony SXRD's. Maybe JVC for one??? Samsung won't and i'm hearing Toshiba may not either. Hard to believe, will certainly put a damper on Samsung and Toshiba 1080P sales if true over a $6- part!

Another AVSForum post indicates that forthcoming LG 1080p sets will have the Silicon Images chip that allows for 1080p input.

Just having the part does not mean that 1080p will be supported. 1080p input and processing will have to be implemented in the rest of the system. It is our current belief (based on schaffer970's research of FCC filings) that the Samsung 1080p sets will also have a chip that will support 1080p input, but as we know this will not equate to having the feature implemented on the sets.

Quite probably others will also accept 1080P through HDMI as well as LG and Sony SXRD's. Maybe JVC for one??? Samsung won't and i'm hearing Toshiba may not either. Hard to believe, will certainly put a damper on Samsung and Toshiba 1080P sales if true over a $6- part!

LG, Sony, JVC ... can you provide a link to an authoritative source to confirm 1080p HDMI input on any of these sets?

ADDED: I will even accept a comment from a senior AVS member that talked with one of these manufacturers at a trade show and was told specifically that one of these models will support 1080p input on HDMI in 2005.

I've sold quite a lot of stuff thru Amazon Marketplace and occassionally I get a potential buyer that tries to circumvent the Amazon payment (credit card) system by offering to pay me via Western Union. I decline and insist that they pay thru Amazon using their credit card. I never hear from them again!

That's what happened, except it was the seller insisting on using Western Union. All the email traffic has been copied to Amazon, and all that is lost is about 2 months of interest on $850. I'll just wait 2 months for Amazon to refund the cc.

Thank you all for your opinions. I knew it was risky, but felt pretty safe using Amazon.

LG, Sony, JVC ... can you provide a link to an authoritative source to confirm 1080p HDMI input on any of these sets?

ADDED: I will even accept a comment from a senior AVS member that talked with one of these manufacturers at a trade show and was told specifically that one of these models will support 1080p input on HDMI in 2005.


LG will for sure. Sony SXRD most likely will. JVC - maybe. Samsung - no. Toshiba - probably no. Mitsubishi - ?. The rest = who knows?


P.S. - Why would i care who YOU would accept?

That's what happened, except it was the seller insisting on using Western Union. All the email traffic has been copied to Amazon, and all that is lost is about 2 months of interest on $850. I'll just wait 2 months for Amazon to refund the cc.

Thank you all for your opinions. I knew it was risky, but felt pretty safe using Amazon.


I take it you didn't fall for the Western Union Scam? You should be OK if you used a CC. Good Luck, anyway:)

LG will for sure. Sony SXRD most likely will. JVC - maybe. Samsung - no. Toshiba - probably no. Mitsubishi - ?. The rest = who knows?


P.S. - we really don't care who you will accept, now do we?

He is likely only asking because there are members of this forum who will make outlandish assertions from time to time with no ability to back them up. It can only help to differentiate yourself from those types of posters to reveal where you get some of your information so you will not accidently be mistaken for one of them. It helps people determine which posters to take seriously. It shouldn't necessarily be taken as an insult.

Amazon's A to Z protection is reliable, I've spoken with a few people that have used it. I knew going in it was a risk, but I am counting on both Amazon's and the credit card's protection. If I believe the only risk is having to wait 2 or 3 months to get the money back, why not try to see if it's real, in the offchance it was?

Anyway, I have emailed Amazon with the potential fraud.

No one here knows a place that does price matching online, right?

You only have to wait until the shipping date expires that they put in. You will know it is a scam when you get an e-mail asking for a wire transfer. Amazon will charge your card, but you will get that money back when the product doesn't arrive by the date. You have to wait a couple of day's after the expiration to file the claim.

LG will for sure. Sony SXRD most likely will. JVC - maybe. Samsung - no. Toshiba - probably no. Mitsubishi - ?. The rest = who knows?


P.S. - Why would i care who YOU would accept?

LG = for sure?

JVC = maybe?.... is this because you "think" they looked better than Samsung at CES?

Milmanias: not to flame but there is an old saying that really comes to mind in your particular case. "If its too good to be true, then, its too good to be true!" I see no way that could have been a legitimate price.

Good luck with your efforts to get your money back!!

Gazelle,

It is very likely that the source feeding the JVC 1080p sets were content that was
optimized to show off the PQ ( I am sure Samsung did the same thing ... )

BUT, it is my understanding that the constrast ratio and black levels on the JVCs will
leave much to be desired therefore for those of us that watch movie content I suspect
the Samsung 1080p sets will be a great deal better PQ.

Gazelle,

It is very likely that the source feeding the JVC 1080p sets were content that was
optimized to show off the PQ ( I am sure Samsung did the same thing ... )

BUT, it is my understanding that the constrast ratio and black levels on the JVCs will
leave much to be desired therefore for those of us that watch movie content I suspect
the Samsung 1080p sets will be a great deal better PQ.


The reverse was true at the CES. The JVC 1080P D-ILA clearly had better PQ than the Samsung 1080P DLP (which was also very good), but those were set up demos of prototypes, i learned long ago in this business that it's what hits the floor in the store that counts, not what manufacturers show at trade shows. Still, i wouldn't bet on the Samsung having better PQ than the JVC....

LG = for sure?

JVC = maybe?.... is this because you "think" they looked better than Samsung at CES?


No, it's because i have yet to confirm to my satisfaction one way or the other. Oh, by the way, it just wasn't me "thinking" the JVC had the better PQ at the CES, FYI it was EVERYONE who commented on it. NOT ONE person i know of thought the Samsung had the better PQ. It was as definitive as you can ever get at these shows, believe me. It's rare that you can't find many advocates for even a clearly inferior product (not that the Samsung was, as i stated many times the PQ of the Samsung 1080P's was MUCH better than their HLR 720P series). Don't take my word for it, though - you will not be disappointed with the PQ of either if they show as well as the demos.

Thanks for your response Gazelle.

Still, with 10,000 to 1 constrast versus 2,000 constrast I don't see how
dark movie detail will be better. I understand that one can exaggerate
CR specs but JVC is claiming the same CR on their new 720p JVC sets
as their new 1080p JVC sets and even the existing 2500 to 1 Samsung's
whoop them in this area.

I personally do prefer three chip solutions over a single chip with color
wheel but until triple chip LCOS gets the CR up and or DLP goes triple chip
in the consumer market we will have live compromises :-)

Thanks for your response Gazelle.

Still, with 10,000 to 1 constrast versus 2,000 constrast I don't see how
dark movie detail will be better. I understand that one can exaggerate
CR specs but JVC is claiming the same CR on their new 720p JVC sets
as their new 1080p JVC sets and even the existing 2500 to 1 Samsung's
whoop them in this area.

I personally do prefer three chip solutions over a single chip with color
wheel but until triple chip LCOS gets the CR up and or DLP goes triple chip
in the consumer market we will have live compromises :-)

As i said, there is never a certainty in these things until you can see a for-sale product.
Demos and prototypes are just that, and you always have to take trade shows with a grain of salt - all manufacturers rig their exhibits to show their product in the most favorable light....

I am with you - I can't wait :-)

So I just have to ask, since everyone is so wrapped up anxiously waiting for the miraculous 1080p input. What is the practicality of this situation? From what I have read and understand(I may be wrong, just correct me if so). Film is recorded on set at 1080p @ 20 something fps. Now out of curiosity, when a dvd play splits that into 1080i and sends it to a TV @ 60 fps, will that not convert back to an exact duplicate of what the film is recorded at? So with any movie that you watch,a 1080p input would not make things any better? Also, if it is so hard for them to come up with this 1080p connection, how flawed are the first ones going to be or how much hotter are they going to make the circuitry of the TV, how many more components to go bad, etc. Anyways, I think it is worth getting a 1080p even if it does not have a 1080p input just because of the specs. If you just look at these TV's on a specs level, it might be easier to justify waiting and purchasing.

The FCC has a block diagram of the HLR5688 and it shows that it uses SiI 9021 as HDMI receiver. The SiI9021 has two versions a) SiI9021CTU for use 720p/1080i b) SiI9021CTU-7 for WUXGA/1080p.

The output of the SiI9021 feed into a ATI Xilleon x226 which is a DSP chip Mpeg decoder/Video Scaler to process the signal.

The PC input on the other hand goes into a Genesis Microchip gm1601 display controller which can accept Analog RGB input up to WUXGA at 60hz. The GM1601 output is Dual LVDS/TTL to the panel. Basically the PC input bypasses the ATI Xilleon and DNIe processor and goes directly into the GM1601 which seems like the last step before going to the DLP.

All other inputs goes thru the Xilleon DSP and DNIe (could be bypassed) and then to the GM1601.

In conclusion, most probably no 1080p on HDMI. However the PC input seem to have a more direct path since it skips the video scaler and directly into the GM1601. BTW the GM1601 also has a DVI input port, but I am not sure if it is used.

As i said, there is never a certainty in these things until you can see a for-sale product.
Demos and prototypes are just that, and you always have to take trade shows with a grain of salt - all manufacturers rig their exhibits to show their product in the most favorable light....


The JVC HD61FH96 1080p does not have PC input and does not have 1080p input "Accepted Video Signals 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i" see post #4186 for link :rolleyes:

The JVC HD61FH96 1080p does not have PC input and does not have 1080p input "Accepted Video Signals 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i" see post #4186 for link :rolleyes:

Thank you! I am getting so sick and tired of Gazelle's useless posts. Yes, we all know that it is a drawback that Samsung does not accept 1080p over HDMI, but neither do any other manufacturers so far, so that cannot possibly be a reason that one would choose a specific set over another. Speculation on LG accepting 1080p based on random poster's comments in the forums are not good enough for me, and they're not good enough for most people here at the forum, whether or not they are good for JVC fanboys like gazelle. If I hear a member like htwaits or rogo say there's 1080p on the LG (Or we actually see it written in promotional materials), I'll believe it. The fact is, there is no point in arguing over these sorts of details until people have the sets in their hands and can definitively comment on their abilities.

That being said, I have heard across the forum that the CES D-ILA displays have better detail than the Samsung sets, but have worse contrast. These are not facts, but opinions illustrated by many respected forum members. What is important to one may not be important to another. Some like wobulation, some like 1x1 pixel mapping. Does this matter to me? Not really.

There are some other factors that influence my buying as well. For comparative purposes, JVC is new to the RPTV game with LCOS (and so is everyone else who uses LCOS) and so are Toshiba and Mitsu with respect to DLP. Samsung has a satisfied base and sells a ton of sets, and has the advantage of having gone through several generations of their sets to tweak their light engines and related innards. Also, for my typical viewing, these small differences in display quality don't make much of a difference, and they probably won't to many other customers out there. I'm not a videophile, and so I'd probably have a tough time pointing out the shortcomings of one set over another. Finally, both myself and my girlfriend want a new TV for our new apartment, and time is of the essence. Samsung has already slipped up, and that's got me thinking about other displays, but they'll still likely be first to the market.

In summary, while I'm willing to look at the other manufacturers, they're still new to the game compared to Samsung, the small differences in PQ between these sets will probably go unnoticed by the casual viewer such as myself, and time is of the essence.

For now, that means I'm getting a Samsung. Things may change, and they often do, so we'll see if Samsung delivers by 7/25. If not, I may be willing to wait 30 days.

We'll see.

I've been in discussion with a friend on joining the digital TV age with the purchase of an HDTV. She lives in northern New Jersey and I am there on business so I offered to help her with the purchase process. I did some research on the DLPs in the entry level class (she only wanted a "smaller" set to replace a massive 36" CRT Toshiba). So in my mind, the short list was the HLR4267W, the HLR4667W, and the Toshiba 46" DLP. We also had two Sony CRT HDTVs on the short list as lower priced alternatives.

After having to move the 250 lb Toshiba CRT to its new home in the lower level of her house (and taking three people to do it), the Sony CRTs as a replacement were quickly crossed off the list. :). So with that we headed to Best Buy to find the new DLP to bring home. One worry: my friend warned me that the local Best Buy was often worse than useless since they barely kept anything in stock.

The Best Buy was a combo store with their upscale brand Magnolia. I had been to my first Magnolia 6 months ago in Seattle and it was great upscale store...better than just about all the Tweeters I'd ever seen. But having Magnolia taking up a corner of a Best Buy, kinda like the Apple/CompUSA "store within a store" concept just didn't work. Best Buy is noisy and busier with lots of people who aren't Magnolia's target audience. Stand alone Magnolia stores are a lot quieter and upscale and I thought it was impossible to even get a good demo from the listening rooms due to the noise in the rest of the Best Buy. Best Buy needs to decouple these stores....fast.

We ended up talking to a rep in the Magnolia section and asked to see a 42" or 46" Samsung. The only model they had was the 4677 "slimline" that is a great set (and on the short list for a second set for me), but over the price range we were looking for. The rep said that the new HLR models were only available as an order from their warehouse and not from stock. The excuse was that Samsung hasn't been able to send Best Buy enough stock for every single Best Buy in the chain, so until then they wouldn't carry the model in stock in any of their stores. WTF? Oh, they lost a sale.

So we went a mile down the road to Circuit City. They had many HLPs on the floor but no HLRs....but they did have price tags for the 42" and 46" on the floor, so I grabbed them and asked if either of them was in stock. To my surprise, the 42" was in stock (our first choice) so we scooped it up and took it back to her house. And yes, moving a 65 lb set was a lot nicer than the 250 lb monster it replaced.

I've never had the opportunity to preview a HLR and I realize that the 46" model is better in terms of PQ, but I was impressed by the clarity and black level of this set, despite it being a "wobble" DLP. The NBA finals game last night looked very crisp and the black Spurs uniforms were pretty accurately depicted. The color out of the box is a lot more realistic than previous Samsungs in the last few years, most likely to upgrades of the color wheel and decoder. The decoder was clearly better in handling color ramps without the annoying dithering of past models. This was most noticeable with animation...we used the Lion King DVD and Spirited Away DVDs for tests. And I was also impressed by the set's ability to scale and make the most of not the best signal coming from the DVD. Her DVD player was a "freebie" Apex player with no component video. It was a pretty beat up player. We used only composite video and after reconfiguring it for widescreen display, the Sammy delivered a very servicable picture. With an upscaling DVD player + HDMI, the picture should be dynamite.

Alas, the set will have to go back to the store. After about an hour, we noticed a defect...some foreign object was in front of the projection mechanism and looks like the edge of a paper clip on the far right bottom corner of the screen. It sticks out about 1/2 inch into the field of view, but it is definitely there, and will unfortunately prolong the overall buying process. But this set is definitely on my short list for another friend and I may pick one up too if I can't talk my wife into the more expensive 4677.

So in summary:

Cheers:
Samsung PQ and relative ease of setup
Circuit City having one in stock

Jeers:
Best Buy store layout and stocking policies
Samsung product defect

Clorox,
Took the words right out of my mouth! Another thing to consider...Samsung blows these other manufacturers out of the water with their superior service.

If I hear a member like htwaits or rogo say there's 1080p on the LG (Or we actually see it written in promotional materials), I'll believe it.
You'll hear it from me after I hear it from Rogo, or more likely, after I hear it from the major contributors to the "facts" in message one of this thread. :cool:

For comparative purposes, JVC is new to the RPTV game with LCOS (and so is everyone else who uses LCOS) and so are Toshiba and Mitsu with respect to DLP.
JVC has extensive front projector experience with LCoS.

Mitsubishi and Panasonic were into DLP with the HD1 chip before Samsung came along and made a market for DLP using the HD2 chip. That's when the price for a 52" set was around $12,000. Panasonic took a shot at the HD2 chip at $5,000 and then announced they were withdrawing. I don't think Mitsubishi ever did a HD2 chip. Samsung definitely set the price range that we are enjoying today. :D

The fact is, there is no point in arguing over these sorts of details until people have the sets in their hands and can definitively comment on their abilities.
Would AVS survive in such a rational world? :eek:

Thank you! I am getting so sick and tired of Gazelle's useless posts.

speaking of useless, ill-informed, ignorant posts, yours are vying for the top of the leader list:)

There are some other factors that influence my buying as well. For comparative purposes, JVC is new to the RPTV game with LCOS (and so is everyone else who uses LCOS)

FACT: JVC has been involved in LCOS Technology for quite some time and known to knowledgeable people to be quite adept at it.


and so are Toshiba and Mitsu with respect to DLP.


FACT: Samsung is the newbie to DLP technology concentrating on gaining market share by producing cheaper, lower-end models. Mitsubishi, Panasonic, Toshiba were all working on this technology before Samsung intending to sell DLP at higher price levels.

FACT: We all have Samsung to thank for forcing all other manufacturers who stuck with DLP to lower their marketing strategies and pricing levels to be competitive, so consumers should be very grateful to Samsung whatever micro-display they buy or own.


FACT: There is an "ignore" feature. Perhaps you should learn to use it so you won't be bothered with my "useless" posts.


FACT: Perhaps you should do a lot more research before posting. You seem to be
wrong on almost everything you state. Obviously you are not working in this industry, unless you are a salesperson for a BigBox store, in which case your lack of knowledge would be understandable:)

[COLOR=Lime]FACT: Samsung is the newbie to DLP technology concentrating on gaining market share by producing cheaper, lower-end models. Mitsubishi, Panasonic, Toshiba were all working on this technology before Samsung intending to sell DLP at higher price levels. .


Quote copied from cnet:
By CNET staff
DLP stands for digital light processing, and it's one of many rear-projection technologies vying to dominate the big-screen market. Televisions with DLP chips inside are made principally by Samsung. :rolleyes:

FACT: Samsung is the newbie to DLP technology concentrating on gaining market share by producing cheaper, lower-end models. Mitsubishi, Panasonic, Toshiba were all working on this technology before Samsung intending to sell DLP at higher price levels.
Not counting the 2005 model year, Samsung has three successful model years behind them.

Mitsubishi's first model year was a total failure because they couldn't sell the sets they built. They sat out two years and came back after Samsung proved that there was a DLP market. They still seemed to be unable to produce a DLP set with an all digital path for digital inputs. Perhaps they were falling back on their analog CRT RPTV technology.

Panasonic had a similar experience except that they tried a second model year. They ended up announcing that they were withdrawing from the DLP market. Their second generation DLP sets had major power supply problems. There were also serious PQ problems that were not solved at the time of their withdrawal.

Panasonic's second model year overlapped Samsung's first model year.

A few months later Panasonic came back into the DLP market with a third generation. For a while they continued to have power supply problems, but they correct them. Panasonic like Samsung is able to provide an all digital path for their digital inputs.

I've never heard of a Toshiba DLP prior to the 2004 models. As an ignorant outsider maybe I'm uninformed. Maybe Toshiba didn't distribute their early DLP models in the US. Toshiba did produce a much anticipated LCoS set, but ended up refunding the purchase price. They withdrew before producing a new and improved second model year.

Perhaps we are ignorant and uninformed about the outstanding track record that Mitsubishi, Toshiba, and Panasonic brought to the 2004 DLP model year. :o

Perhaps we are also ignorant and uninformed about your standing in the industry. :eek:

gazelle,
Please skip the green it hurts my tired old eyes...Question: why are you so against Samsung as a company...it is very obvious where you stand...some of your input is actually pretty good...but some is just you having fun bashing the Samsung company, and the excitment of future owners of Samsung products. If you keep this up I will be forced in giving you a time out. LOL!

So I just have to ask, since everyone is so wrapped up anxiously waiting for the miraculous 1080p input.

While your explanation of film to video transfers isn't quite right :), your conclusion is essentially correct. That is, for movies, a 1080p input is of limited benefit.

For plugging a PC in, though, there may be some value. Not for playing movies, but perhaps for running apps like web browsers or playing games. The upcoming PlayStation 3 will allow "up to" 1080p output, though we don't yet know how many games would support that feature.

For me, the 1080p input thing isn't an issue, since I have no plans on hooking a PC up, and the fact that some future PS3 games *might* take advantage of that feature and it *might* make a difference isn't particularly significant to me just yet.

Film is recorded on set at 1080p @ 20 something fps.

35mm film has a far higher res than 1080p.

How cool is this?! I just tried out the "ignore list" for the first time! Put gazelle on it! Suddenly, this thread is static-free! I highly recommend it!

How cool is this?! I just tried out the "ignore list" for the first time! Put gazelle on it! Suddenly, this thread is static-free! I highly recommend it!

LOL, kool!

gazelle,
Please skip the green it hurts my tired old eyes...Question: why are you so against Samsung as a company...it is very obvious where you stand...some of your input is actually pretty good...but some is just you having fun bashing the Samsung company, and the excitment of future owners of Samsung products. If you keep this up I will be forced in giving you a time out. LOL!

Sorry 'bout the green. Actually, i think Samsung makes some very fine products and i own several(including a DLP!). They have been enormously successful with DLP's. They have a great marketing strategy providing an inexpensive (for microdisplays) product to the lower end of the market, but one cannot logically argue that other manufacturers haven't shown better quality of parts and workmanship. There is little dispute that a higher percentage of Samsung DLP's have failed or had major problems within two years than most other DLP manufacturers. Most wholesalers, distributors or Big Box Managers will tell you that. There is a very natural tendency to try to push Samsungs since the margins tend to be higher than on other DLP brands. Truthfully, i don't really like 1-chip DLP as a technology. I don't think one can really base a technology on spinning color wheels in this day and age, but i believe it will find a niche market at the lower end of microdisplays, at least for a few years. I happen to personally own a shaky, unreliable Samsung HLN which has been problem-free for me for almost two years and i also own a Toshiba DLP which is supposedly better made and very reliable which has had two major repairs in less than a year. Go figure:)


I do like to shake the trees a bit when dealing with fanatics of any stripe,
everybody (including me) has to be brought back down to earth once in a while:)

I appreciate your constructive criticism as i do get carried away on occasion:)

P.S> none of the above comments are intended to criticize the Samsung 1080P line. The PQ looked very nice at the CES and this line may very well be a step up for Samsung. I'll probably take one of these home for a while when available for some hands-on reviewing.

Truthfully, i don't really like 1-chip DLP as a technology. I don't think one can really base a technology on spinning color wheels in this day and age, but i believe it will find a niche market at the lower end of microdisplays, at least for a few years. I happen to personally own a shaky, unreliable Samsung HLN which has been problem-free for me for almost two years and i also own a Toshiba DLP which is supposedly better made and very reliable which has had two major repairs in less than a year. Go figure:)

I f you don't like one chip dlp and the idea of a color wheel, why do you have two DLP sets with a spinning color wheel?

I f you don't like one chip dlp and the idea of a color wheel, why do you have two DLP sets with a spinning color wheel?


I like the PQ per dollar factor of DLP sets and suspect it will only improve, but i fully realize that this is a very buggy technology and these sets are not built to last. Lcos technology is the future of micro-displays for the foreseeable future, but 1-chip DLP sets, led by Samsung and Toshiba both lowering prices to gain market share and a few more manufacturers who will be entering the fray, will remain a very viable niche market. I think in less than two years one will be able to choose among many brands of 56" - 62" 1080P DLP's providing great PQ for under 2K. This is a very attractive proposition to many people, but the uninitiated who think they are buying a set to last 10 years will be sadly disappointed.

I suspect once Sony, JVC, and others get the CR on LCOS up to par ,
TI will have no choice but to introduce triple chip DLP chipsets to keep
the higher margin business. Right now DLP chipsets are very profitble
for them and they obviously don't see the need, at this for this year,
to introduce triple chipsets for consumer displays.

I suspect by year end 2006 the situation will be much different...

Folks, we need the good, the bad and the ugly on this thread so that we can get the big picture before buying a new expensive HD TV. I find nothing wrong with Gazelle's posts.

I never liked the idea of having all "yes men" in a meeting. Decisions based on "yes men" are always suspect and sometimes lead to trouble.

Give Gazelle his due. I see no reason to put him on IGNORE!!

Just one man's opinion.

Just one man's opinion.

Your opinion is well noted. As is all others on this forum who are stating opinions. But to state an opinion, and then make it a flaming fact, to provide information and distort its accuracy, or to provide misinformation without any support to validate its credibility are others issues altogether. I find every post on this forum interesting. We all have to filter what we find useful and important, and what is drivel. Where do you find the "ignore" button anyway? I can't seem to find it. So, in the meantime, I'll just absorb the valuable information on this post, and filter out the rest.

to state an opinion, and then make it a flaming fact, to provide information and distort its accuracy, or to provide misinformation without any support to validate its credibility are others issues altogether. .

Well put, I've read most of the thread and join to get a pre-order power buy, all based on the intelligent people posting and seeing them praising samsungs new 1080p's. It makes me nerves when I read a negative post and I try to verify the source. Making opinions without fact make for unnecessary or impossible research. I've been doing my homework on purchasing a TV sense Sept. 04. I bought a LCOS (Olevia) for trial purposes in Feb. (great spec.) but was not impressed and returned it. My desire is the marry my PC and TV together. The Samsung HRL5668w seems to do what I need it to do. I have my PC in a coolmaster media can with network to my office for printing, a Gyration Media Center Remote and Keyboard and a 7.1 system ready. Just waiting on July 25 now. :cool:

Thanks for your response Gazelle.

Still, with 10,000 to 1 constrast versus 2,000 constrast I don't see how
dark movie detail will be better. I understand that one can exaggerate
CR specs but JVC is claiming the same CR on their new 720p JVC sets
as their new 1080p JVC sets and even the existing 2500 to 1 Samsung's
whoop them in this area.
I may be misremembering, but I seem to recall that our eyes cannot make out higher than about 800:1 contrast at any given ambient light level. What they can do is change the range of that contrast region (adjust to the ambient light level), for example by dialating the pupil, but that's not instant.

The bottom line is probably that the contrast level's impact on picture quality is tightly integrated with the black level at the intended ambient light level. For example, plasmas have very good pure black (relative to LCD or DLP RPTV for example), and excellent contrast at low APLs (average pixel levels), so if viewed in a dark room watching materials mostly at the lower range of the APL, may be ideal. But get to high APLs (or, correspondingly, maximum brightness) to compensate for a brighter room and the contrast will plummet. At that point, the light leakage of the DLP RPTV becomes moot because you can crank up the brightness to overwhelm the room and there's a limit on "black" with ambient light around.

All of which just means, trust your eyes, not the specs, on contrast ratios. And if the store is dimmer than your home, bring a lamp. Seriously. I do. (The Magnolia near me doesn't have bright lighting to turn on near the displays.) You want to judge the displays in lighting conditions you would use.

Where do you find the "ignore" button anyway? I can't seem to find it.
Click the "User CP" button at the top of each page. That puts you in the User Control Panel. There is a menu of the things you can control on the left side of the screen. Under "Miscellaneous" you will find the " Buddy/Ignore" option.

There is still a link to all messages in a thread that are on your "Ignore" list so you can peek. :)

I've used it in the past when I don't want to be tempted into responding. :o

I have added POWER CONSUMPTION to the specs in POST #1. Essentially, it appears Samsung is rating power consumption at 230 watts for all of the models. Since we don't have the users manuals for the 68 / 78 series, I had to estimate power consumption on those models.

Can speakers that are NOT magnetically shielded be placed at the sides of the Samsung DLP set?

Can speakers that are NOT magnetically shielded be placed at the sides of the Samsung DLP set?
Yes.

I suspect once Sony, JVC, and others get the CR on LCOS up to par ,
TI will have no choice but to introduce triple chip DLP chipsets to keep
the higher margin business. Right now DLP chipsets are very profitble
for them and they obviously don't see the need, at this for this year,
to introduce triple chipsets for consumer displays.

I suspect by year end 2006 the situation will be much different...


Very wise and true. TI is making a mint on these DLP chipsets. The margins on them are HUGE. They cost next to nothing to stamp out. All the expense was in the development. I'm a little surprised TI stock hasn't performed better. I bought some TI a couple of years ago in anticipation of them making a fortune on selling DLP chipsets that cost them very little to produce to DLP manufacturers for almost pure profit, but their stock has really lagged. (It has started to price in these sales recently, so at least i'm ahead enough now to buy a ham sandwich:).

P.S> I agree with you that one-chip DLP with color wheels will fall into a low-end, niche market as Lcos takes market share away with a superior technology the next few years. Three-Chip DLP will be seriously developed as the one chip version loses market share and pricing levels drop, reducing margins.

Hi Gazelle,

TI has been new highs recently and the DLP represents only
5% ( and growing ) of their. total sales. Its a great company
and a great stock to own long term.

Best regards,

Tony

P.S. There is absolutely no technical reason why TI couldn't introduce
triple chip DLP today. I personally believe will see the first consumer
sets by year end 2006 due to other display technogies putting on the heat...

TI is making a mint on these DLP chipsets. The margins on them are HUGE. They cost next to nothing to stamp out. All the expense was in the development.
:rolleyes: They cost next to nothing to stamp out??? You would think that TI was making potato chips instead of high performance semiconductor devices. There are plenty of costs in the semiconductor business. Starting with fabs that can cost billions of dollars, expensive staff, lengthy design cycles, high quality raw materials, manufacturing, precision packaging, and product testing to name just a few. A single mask run for an engineer during development can easily cost $2 million. I hope that TI is making good money on these chips because that is the only way they can make big investments in developing future products. These are quality products. Failed pixels are extremely rare. I have never heard of a total DLP chip failure. If these chips were so cheap to produce, why wouldn't TI just produce a 1:1 mapped 1080p chip? Why wouldn't a TV manufacturer create a 3 chip set? Give this great American company some credit!!! :rolleyes:


P.S> I agree with you that one-chip DLP with color wheels will fall into a low-end, niche market as Lcos takes market share away with a superior technology the next few years. Three-Chip DLP will be seriously developed as the one chip version loses market share and pricing levels drop, reducing margins.
There is nothing wrong with speculation ... it leads to good discussion. You keep talking about one-chip DLP as falling into a low-end niche in the next few years. I think the possibility of this is exactly zero. Hopefully, prices will continue to come down and performance will continue to rise. I expect DLP to be very popular in the middle of the market (which hopefully will be lower than it is today). But, for it to become a low-end product makes absolute NO sense. Big screen TVs would have to start replacing the dozens of bargain priced CRT TV's in $200 - $400 price range you see lining the walls at your local store. I consider the 1080p products this year to be high-end products. I would expect that Samsung will continue to develop high performance, high-end products for this market. In case you haven't noticed, Samsung is repositioning itself as a high-end consumer manufacturer. I would expect this trend to pick-up in future years not decrease. Sure you could define high-end as equipment costing over $30,000 or some such nonsense. If so, you are completely failing to understand what is going on with all display types ... the prices are coming down. We are less than six months from CES 2006 and I think it is a safe bet that we are not going to see Samsung DLP's in the bargain bin in 2006.

I'm not going to put down LCOS. I plan on going down and looking at the sets later this year when they are available. In 2005, I don't expect them to perform better than the Samsung units. But, I have an open mind and I am hoping that they have nice PQ. We can further discuss them once they are available. We can come back next year and see what LCOS and DLP are doing in 2006 and see if LCOS can figure out some way to bring the contrast ratio on the sets up so at least it is equal to Samsung's entry level models. Until then, if what you mean by technically superior is that the LCOS units are three chip systems and philosophically three chip solutions are technically superior regardless of their actual real world performance ... then we understand how you are looking at the situation. It seems a little early to declare a victor when no one has seen a single production level set in the Samsung product line!

Hello USSB,

The reason I believe manufacturers don't make a three chip set has
to do with the way TI supplies the devices which are provided as
a chip set. The chip set does not lend itself to three chip designs.
Otherwise, since there are 720p samsung sets being sold for under
$2k ( which can easily found on the internet today ) certianly
the micro mirror device itself can't cost more than this. Therefore there
is no reason why there cannot be sub $5k triple chip 720p sets today.

The DLP die itself is currently larger than LCOS since it must control an array
of mirrors versus LCOS which has no moving parts and is purely a reflective technology.

If LCOS can improve its CR ( right now the JVC CR sucks and while the Sony SXRD is better it is not as good as the new xHD4 ) then over the long run it should have
a better cost basis and be more reliable.

I currently upgrade my TV every year ( sell my old set for a slight discount
below the lowest internet price ) because of the rapid advance of video
technology. Because of this I buy sets in the $3 or $4k range so I can sell
for $2k or so a year later. But once, we have a triple chip technology with
constasts of 15k or 20k to 1, with perfect black levels, accurate colors, etc.
I don't splurging on a more expensive set and keeping it for a few years
since at that time the improvements will be more evolutionary rather than
revolutionary. I see this happening as early as end of 2006 and as late
as end of 2007.

Best regards,

Tony

WTR1

As a new member and very little activity your not aware of the history of gazelle and his sniping without any facts or evidence dating back 6 months. He throws out his assertions with no support to his statements whatsoever and he follows people around flaming for the hell of it - there are plenty of members that know what they're talking about we can learn from as he never has anything positive to contribute especially on a Samsung Thread - Good Riddens Gazelle!

IGNORE is where troublemakers belong. He fails to support his assertions with anything thus he's contributing nothing! Like another poster suggested choose IGNORE and we remove the STATIC. Snipe on Gazelle soon you'll set a record for Ignores.

This thread does need someone that despises Samsung - How the hell would that help? There are plenty contributing positive with tech backgrounds and we all have our own eyes to judge as we aren't sheep but we have HTWaits, ROGO and many others that contribute and back it up with PROOF rather than BIASED HOT AIR! :D

I have added POWER CONSUMPTION to the specs in POST #1. Essentially, it appears Samsung is rating power consumption at 230 watts for all of the models. Since we don't have the users manuals for the 68 / 78 series, I had to estimate power consumption on those models.


Thanks to UCSB for the enormous effort required to maintain POST #1. Props Dude !! :)

.

Hi Gazelle,

TI has been new highs recently and the DLP represents only
5% ( and growing ) of their. total sales. Its a great company
and a great stock to own long term.

Best regards,

Tony

Yes it is, i'm holding their stock in my IRA. I don't intend to trade it.

[QUOTE=UCSB]:rolleyes: They cost next to nothing to stamp out??? You would think that TI was making potato chips instead of high performance semiconductor devices. There are plenty of costs in the semiconductor business. Starting with fabs that can cost billions of dollars, expensive staff, lengthy design cycles, high quality raw materials, manufacturing, precision packaging, and product testing to name just a few.

I agree the design cycles, research, tooling and other pre-production costs are great, but that's a given. Once again, my point is, now since they are in full production, these DLP Chipsets DO cost next to nothing to produce. The margins are enormous. Do yourself a favor and pick up a recent financial report of TI's, you will be amazed at how profitable a business DLP chipsets are turning into for them. The cost of stamping out these things is a tiny, tiny fraction of what they sell them for. QUOTE]

Hello USSB,

The reason I believe manufacturers don't make a three chip set has
to do with the way TI supplies the devices which are provided as
a chip set. The chip set does not lend itself to three chip designs.
Otherwise, since there are 720p samsung sets being sold for under
$2k ( which can easily found on the internet today ) certianly
the micro mirror device itself can't cost more than this. Therefore there
is no reason why there cannot be sub $5k triple chip 720p sets today.

The DLP die itself is currently larger than LCOS since it must control an array
of mirrors versus LCOS which has no moving parts and is purely a reflective technology.

If LCOS can improve its CR ( right now the JVC CR sucks and while the Sony SXRD is better it is not as good as the new xHD4 ) then over the long run it should have
a better cost basis and be more reliable.

I currently upgrade my TV every year ( sell my old set for a slight discount
below the lowest internet price ) because of the rapid advance of video
technology. Because of this I buy sets in the $3 or $4k range so I can sell
for $2k or so a year later. But once, we have a triple chip technology with
constasts of 15k or 20k to 1, with perfect black levels, accurate colors, etc.
I don't splurging on a more expensive set and keeping it for a few years
since at that time the improvements will be more evolutionary rather than
revolutionary. I see this happening as early as end of 2006 and as late
as end of 2007.

Best regards,

Tony


Lol, you beat me to the punch! The only thing i might disagree with you on is your timeframe. I would push it back one year, but we might be able to better tell when we see the new JVC 1080P's, Sony SXRD's, LG Lcos 1080P's, etc. later this year how far this technology has progressed and better judge its rate of progression.

Thanks to UCSB for the enormous effort required to maintain POST #1. Props Dude !! :)

.


I heartily agree. He's put an enormous amount of time and effort into this and other threads!

WTR1

As a new member and very little activity your not aware of the history of gazelle and his sniping without any facts or evidence dating back 6 months. He throws out his assertions with no support to his statements whatsoever and he follows people around flaming for the hell of it - there are plenty of members that know what they're talking about we can learn from as he never has anything positive to contribute especially on a Samsung Thread - Good Riddens Gazelle!

IGNORE is where troublemakers belong. He fails to support his assertions with anything thus he's contributing nothing! Like another poster suggested choose IGNORE and we remove the STATIC. Snipe on Gazelle soon you'll set a record for Ignores.

This thread does need someone that despises Samsung - How the hell would that help? There are plenty contributing positive with tech backgrounds and we all have our own eyes to judge as we aren't sheep but we have HTWaits, ROGO and many others that contribute and back it up with PROOF rather than BIASED HOT AIR! :D


Tch, Tch. Besides being uninformed, you seem to be a very angry person.
Perhaps you should concentrate more on enhancing your outside life and spend less time sniping at people on cyberspace forums. Really, i don't think you are helping your mental state here if it's driving you to write in such a hostile manner:)

Gazelle,

I am basing the time frame on the fact the Sony SXRD 50in and 60in
sets due out this fall are triple chip LCOS with claimed CRs of
5000 to one. It is possible to "contrast bin" devices so if they
are yielding enough devices to support CRs of 5K to 1 in volume
they certainly could offer a lower volume highend unit with much
higher CR as early as this year ( would not expect until next year
though ). Such a set would, in my opinion, force consumer triple
chip DLPs as soon as late next year althogh I would suspect
end of '07 much more likley.


But again, what is possible, and what companies choose to do
are entirely up to the market dynamics and not always directly
in the interest of the consumer :-)

But even with your time table, we are going to have some amazing
sets to look forward to in the next couple of years!

Best regards,

Tony

Click the "User CP" button at the top of each page. That puts you in the User Control Panel. There is a menu of the things you can control on the left side of the screen. Under "Miscellaneous" you will find the " Buddy/Ignore" option.

My thanks to you, htwaits, for the update/instructions, and also for the high quality of your posts. I'm anxiously looking forward to my Sammy 5688, and I think it will be a top-notch model for many years to come.

The "ignore" option in the User Control Panel works great. What will they think of next?

This really cleans up the thread. I don't mind a honest debate, but it seems several people just want to argue for the sake of arguing.

Thanks UCSB for all your hard work keeping this thread updated. I won't make my mind up on which HDTV to buy until I can see them this fall, but you and others on this thread have given me some very valuable information. I appreciate your efforts.

I have already made up my mind and pre-ordered the Samsung 6168.

There will be various trade-offs between the various manufacturers but
for my personal viewing it will hard to beat the Samsung 68/78/88
series. Contrast Ratios up to 10,000 to 1 with excellent black levels
and 1080p will bring movie enjoyment to a new level. This combined
with the anticipated availablilty at the end of next month clinched the
decision for me.

On the other hand someone who primarily watches Discovery HD or
HD sporting events might find the JVC or Sony SXRD slightly
more enjoyable.

I suspect no one will be disappointed with any of these sets :)

My thanks to you, htwaits, for the update/instructions, and also for the high quality of your posts. I'm anxiously looking forward to my Sammy 5688, and I think it will be a top-notch model for many years to come.

RJGin I too ordered the 5688 series through TVA's PB. One of their reps told me that not many people have put in for the 88 series so I should be one of the 1st to receive mine when it's finally released, so the same should hold true for you.

Go Spurs!
:)

RJGin I too ordered the 5688 series through TVA's PB. One of their reps told me that not many people have put in for the 88 series so I should be one of the 1st to receive mine when it's finally released, so the same should hold true for you.

I don't quite know why so few ordered the 5688--guess the pedestal design makes it difficult to place surrounding electronics (although there is a stand available for it--maybe due to no place for a center speaker??). I just checked, and I ordered mine from TVA on June 1. Both of us should be in the first shipment, I would think. I'm only about 2 hours away from their Sacramento werehouse, so when it comes in (and this is purportedly the first 1080p Samsung model to be released), I would hope to receive it the next day.

When we get ours, maybe we can be among the first to try to answer some of the 1080p questions, that are on this thread? I can't wait........... I also have a DVD player that supposedly upconverts to 1080p, so I want to experiment with that at the same time. It's sitting in the box still, waiting for the Sammy.

Let's hope the July 5th date is accurate; of course, it would be a pleasant surprise if it arrived at TVA in June. [Being an optimist sometimes causes fatigue].

*hopes no one ignores him ;_;*

So we've got what? A month to go? I really wish they'd hurry? Anyone else put a little sign up saying "Better TV Coming Soon?" I did, but I think my little 24" Wega is trying to burn it with it's heat....

- D

"Better TV Coming Soon?" - D

D ... you need to change your sign to read "Awesome TV Coming Soon!!!" ;)

D ... you need to change your sign to read "Awesome TV Coming Soon!!!" ;)

It better be soon! This 24" is OK, but DAMN I want my HD! I even called the cable company to make sure I can get the SA 8300HD DVR out here :D

- D

I suspect no one will be disappointed with any of these sets :)


This is a point none of us should forget while nitpicking about the merits or drawbacks of a particular manufacturer's upcoming 1080P Line: Which ever one you choose, chances are you'll be very, very happy. Don't take anyone's extolling the virtues or condemning the flaws of any one manufacturer's lines personally, actually i find critical posts which may be helpful much more useful than wow, golly gee! what a great TV i'm getting type posts which help no one except the sales people, folks need to lighten up in here, we are only talking about TV Sets for gosh sakes! Something very trivial in the larger scheme of life!

I suspect no one will be disappointed with any of these sets :)This is a point none of us should forget while nitpicking about the merits or drawbacks of a particular manufacturer's upcoming 1080P Line: Which ever one you choose, chances are you'll be very, very happy...

...we are only talking about TV Sets for gosh sakes! Something very trivial in the larger scheme of life!
Good point! I've spent a year reading this forum and will probably spend anywhere from a few months to another year :eek: before I actually pull the trigger, but when I do, I'm going to enjoy that set for many years and probably won't revisit this forum until it's on its last leg (the set, that is).

This place is a goldmine. It's got everything I want -- people who really know what they're talking about, people who are excited about the technology, and people who are interested in learning the answers to the same questions I am. I want to hear the technical pros and cons, but I also want to hear the "Golly, gee!" It's good to learn things you don't know, but it's also good to find a group of people you can jump up and down with about how freakin' cool these new sets are going to be!

I've updated the HLR4266W specs in POST #1. They now read:

42" -- HLR4266W (Mid May 2005, $2,499) SamsungUSA.com

HLR4266W has 4 specs which are different from the rest of the 67 series:
1. Does NOT have the super fine screen.
2. Does NOT have the PC/VGA input.
3. Does NOT have the 1394 inputs.
4. Does NOT have the electronic program guide support for the CableCard

... I also have a DVD player that supposedly upconverts to 1080p, so I want to experiment with that at the same time. It's sitting in the box still, waiting for the Sammy.

1080P? or 1080i?

If p whats the output channel?

If p whats the output channel?

Surprisingly, it outputs 1080p via the component connection. However, it will output 1080i via HDMI. and 1280x1024 via VGA.

westa: while it is true that my alias is relatively new and I don't post often, I have been reading this board since January or February, and the boards in general for about a year.

I think that my post was a little misunderstood. I did not intend to defend gazelle. My intent was that it sometimes takes a critic to keep the board honest. I think that is good, not bad.

I like to hear both sides of the story.

And, right now, I'm interested in the pros and cons of extended warranty. I posed the question several times and there haven't been many posts. I was hoping that some of the folks would posts their experience.

By the way, how easy is it to replace the bulb? Are any special tools required? Anyone do it?

Peace!!!!

All you need is a screwdriver. The instructions are in the manual, well the 5688 preliminary manual.

Does anybody plan on backlighting their 68/78 series TV's? I'm thinking on buying one of the Ideal-Lume units or making something similar for my 6168. I thought some bias lighting would really set off these new models - especially with the floating screen design of the 68 series.

Does anybody plan on backlighting their 68/78 series TV's? I'm thinking on buying one of the Ideal-Lume units or making something similar for my 6168. I thought some bias lighting would really set off these new models - especially with the floating screen design of the 68 series.

I have never owned a large DLP set before so my comments may be inappropriate but here goes. I have never liked backlighting. I generally just have some form of very low ambient lighting. I have also never suffered the physical problems that many use backlighting for but again I am only using a 40" RP CRT Tosh and it may not expose all the issues people need backlighting for. Also with my built in setup backlighting would not work at all.

And, right now, I'm interested in the pros and cons of extended warranty. I posed the question several times and there haven't been many posts. I was hoping that some of the folks would posts their experience.

There is another thread running on this topic. It depends on a lot of factors and how you feel about insurance etc. in general. Many feel that most issues will develop in the first 12-24 months and the bulb will generally need to be replaced at some point. If you factor that cost into the cost of the warranty it may make it more palatable, especially if you are not the type that would replace it on your own.

If the cost of replacing the TV would be a serious impact to your budget then I would go with the insurance. If its a rounding error then I would pass on it. I for one have decided to go without, using the AMEX card to extend the warranty another year. If it looks like the TV is not stable at 18 months I will dump it for a different technology.

Simple questions that I'm hoping someone can answer... they're my final questions before buying the HL-R5067W:

PS2 and XBOX:
Is there a difference in the the lag for these two systems? Hooking them up to Composite lessens the lag, correct? Any specs on the new PS3 or XBOX 360 indicate that the lag might be different with these systems?

Rainbows:
I tried and tried and tried (without "instruction") to see rainbows in the store model for a good 15 minutes yesterday... couldn't see them once. Is this long enough to assume I am "rainbow free"?

Upconverting DVD:
What does this mean? Is this dependent on the TV or the DVD player model. My DVD player is a Sony DVP-NS575P. Will I need to be buying a new DVD player? If so, what will I need to look for in a new DVD player to take full advantage of this new TV?

HDMI:
What is this?

TimeWarner Cable HDTV:
In reading, I see that I should request a 8300 model box, is this correct? What if they say they don't have the 8300 and just have the 8000? What is the difference anyhow?

Stands:
This is a stab in the dark, but does anyone know a good place to find stands that aren't the silver/glass stands? Something with a wood finish and doors on the bottom that look like a tv stand and not a coffee table?

ANY help would be GREATLY appreciated! Thanks, this is a very informative forum.

TimeWarner Cable HDTV:
In reading, I see that I should request a 8300 model box, is this correct? What if they say they don't have the 8300 and just have the 8000? What is the difference anyhow?

If they only have the 8000 make sure you get the 8000HD. The 8300HD box though has a larger hard drive and is much faster and more stable than the 8000 box. What city do you live in?

Kansas City, MO

westa: while it is true that my alias is relatively new and I don't post often, I have been reading this board since January or February, and the boards in general for about a year.

I think that my post was a little misunderstood. I did not intend to defend gazelle. My intent was that it sometimes takes a critic to keep the board honest. I think that is good, not bad.

I like to hear both sides of the story.

And, right now, I'm interested in the pros and cons of extended warranty. I posed the question several times and there haven't been many posts. I was hoping that some of the folks would posts their experience.

By the way, how easy is it to replace the bulb? Are any special tools required? Anyone do it?

Peace!!!!

You just asked two of the questions I was about to (although the bulb one was already answered, I'd figured it'd be pretty easy to replace).

Now as for extended warranties, I was told this by my installer, what do you guys think?

As far as Extended warranties I am not a fan nor do I sell any such thing, as the main thing to go wrong on these tv's is the bulb which is not really covered for the full 2 years of the Samsung warranty also. I would read the bulb warranty carefully as many manufacturers are offering up to 2 years on the tv but only 90 days on the bulbs

I was surprised as a lot of companies will try and eagerly sell you a warranty, so I like this guy already (that and he offers TWO free ISF calibrations, a "mini" one right when I recieve the set, and a full one a few months later!).

Thoughts?

- D

Simple questions that I'm hoping someone can answer... they're my final questions before buying the HL-R5067W:

PS2 and XBOX:
Is there a difference in the the lag for these two systems? Hooking them up to Composite lessens the lag, correct? Any specs on the new PS3 or XBOX 360 indicate that the lag might be different with these systems?

There has been some detailed discussion of the PS2 and XBox performance in the HLRxx67W owners thread. Here is a link: CLICK HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=537675&page=1&pp=20) I think the best configuration for the XBox is on component (either 1 or 2) with the device type set to GAME. I'm not as sure about the PS2, but I know there are posts on the PS2 in the owners thread. Both the PS3 and XBox 360 should have better support for 720p and perform better on HDTV's. But, to set your expectations correctly remember that the TV is probably creating the bulk of the lag.

Rainbows:
I tried and tried and tried (without "instruction") to see rainbows in the store model for a good 15 minutes yesterday... couldn't see them once. Is this long enough to assume I am "rainbow free"?
That is a start. But, there have been people in the past that have not seen rainbows and then saw them when they got the set home. Your best bet is to be able to return the set if you find anything about it that you don't like, including rainbows.

Upconverting DVD:
What does this mean? Is this dependent on the TV or the DVD player model. My DVD player is a Sony DVP-NS575P. Will I need to be buying a new DVD player? If so, what will I need to look for in a new DVD player to take full advantage of this new TV?
Normal DVD players output 480i or 480p. Upconverting DVD players process the movie on DVD and output 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i. In your case, you would set the player to 720p to match your TV's 720p native resolution. If you connect the DVD player to your TV using a HDMI cable (digital video) then you will have an all digital path for the material. This could yield the best picture because a normal DVD player converts the movie to analog 480i / 480p, sends it to the TV which converts it back to digital to process and display. These extra analog to digital conversions can degrade the picture slightly.

HDMI:
What is this?
HDMI in an input on the back of the TV. It is a digital input for both audio and video. You would use a HDMI cable to connect your TV to a DVD player, cable set-top-box, or DVR. This input will typically give you your best picture, followed by the component inputs.

TimeWarner Cable HDTV:
In reading, I see that I should request a 8300 model box, is this correct? What if they say they don't have the 8300 and just have the 8000? What is the difference anyhow?
The 8300 is a digital video recorder (DVR). TIVO is a DVR. It allows you record cable TV in HD. The 8300 is the newest model and therefore preferred, but any DVR is better than none.

Stands:
This is a stab in the dark, but does anyone know a good place to find stands that aren't the silver/glass stands? Something with a wood finish and doors on the bottom that look like a tv stand and not a coffee table?
There is one thread in this forum dedicated to TV stands. You can get some ideas there. Here is the link: CLICK HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=431593) I like this web site: CLICK HERE (http://www.racksandstands.com/) for stand ideas.

ANY help would be GREATLY appreciated! Thanks, this is a very informative forum.

Surprisingly, it outputs 1080p via the component connection. However, it will output 1080i via HDMI. and 1280x1024 via VGA.

What brand and model?
I am looking for a new DVD player and have not found 1080P output yet.

What brand and model?
I am looking for a new DVD player and have not found 1080P output yet.

CLICK HERE (http://www.neodigits.com/body/product/HVD2081/feature.asp)

CLICK HERE (http://www.neodigits.com/body/product/HVD2081/feature.asp)

Who would bother with DVD players that can upconvert a bla source to 1080p when blu-ray and the PS3 are around the corner?

Who would bother with DVD players that can upconvert a bla source to 1080p when blu-ray and the PS3 are around the corner?

Just because the PS3 can play DVD's, doesn't mean it's DVD playing hardware is going to be awesome. The PS3 and PS2 for that matter are designed for gaming, DVD playing is just an added bonus. I'll take a dedicated DVD player any day over a gaming console, which is why I'm purchasing a Denon 3910 as soon as I have the funds.

Cheers,

- D

can someone please post settings to get the best possible HD quality. I just got the HL-R4667 model today

contrast?
brightness?
color?
sharpness?
temp?

Normal DVD players output 480i or 480p. Upconverting DVD players process the movie on DVD and output 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i. In your case, you would set the player to 720p to match your TV's 720p native resolution. If you connect the DVD player to your TV using a HDMI cable (digital video) then you will have an all digital path for the material. This could yield the best picture because a normal DVD player converts the movie to analog 480i / 480p, sends it to the TV which converts it back to digital to process and display. These extra analog to digital conversions can degrade the picture slightly.


So am I correct in understanding that the Samsung DVD player model DVD-HD850 would work and look better then my Sony DVP-NS575P? I would link the two DVD players but I'm not up to 5 posts... yet.


HDMI in an input on the back of the TV. It is a digital input for both audio and video. You would use a HDMI cable to connect your TV to a DVD player, cable set-top-box, or DVR. This input will typically give you your best picture, followed by the component inputs.

Is there generally only one HDMI hookup? Thus you have to choose DVD player OR cable OR DVR?

Thanks.

Does anybody plan on backlighting their 68/78 series TV's? I'm thinking on buying one of the Ideal-Lume units or making something similar for my 6168. I thought some bias lighting would really set off these new models - especially with the floating screen design of the 68 series.

I do. When I had my current CRT RPTV calibrated by an ISF-trained guy back in 99, he recommended a backlight. It was pretty inexpensive, so I figured why not. I don't know the brand or anything, but it's one of those neutral gray flourescent lights.

I don't fully understand the science behind it, but for whatever reason, it does make viewing more pleasant in my experience. Plus it's nice when eating in front of the TV to have just enough light to see where your fork is going. :)

There's a good chance I'll end up with a 6168 at some point and will be trying the backlight with it.

can someone please post settings to get the best possible HD quality. I just got the HL-R4667 model today

contrast?
brightness?
color?
sharpness?
temp?

I don't have a HLRxx67W, so I can't give you values. But, you might want to consider getting either Avia or Digital Video Essentials. These are DVD products that are relatively cheap and contain all the instructions and test patterns for you to get your set adjusted. They are pretty easy to use and will allow you to get good results.

So am I correct in understanding that the Samsung DVD player model DVD-HD850 would work and look better then my Sony DVP-NS575P? I would link the two DVD players but I'm not up to 5 posts... yet.

The DVD-HD850, DVD-HD950, and OPPO are just three examples that would work. The OPPO is a popular player right now, there is a thread on it over in the DVD Player forum. There are a number of other players also, they are all discussed in detail in the DVD player forum. But, here is a comparison that describes many of the most popular models: CLICK HERE (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=122)


Is there generally only one HDMI hookup? Thus you have to choose DVD player OR cable OR DVR?

The 720p models, like the HLRxx67W you are considering have one HDMI. The 1080p models, like the HLRxx68W, have two HDMI inputs. People generally put their favorite source on the HDMI input. So if you like DVD's, then you would put the DVD player on the HDMI and your other souces on the component inputs. HDMI switching receivers are starting to appear and if you are considering a new receiver, then look for that feature. This allows you to plug a number of HDMI sources into the receiver and run one HDMI cable to the TV. There are also HDMI switch boxes if you want to only use HDMI on a HLRxx67W ... but, before I would buy a switch box, I would put the money toward just moving up to the HLRxx68W.

Heyho,
I'm also on the preorder list for the power buy for the 5688 and I have a question. I'm looking at the page in the owner's manual showing the rear panel jacks and the HDMI ports say "Not compatible with PC". Is this some sort of DRM issue or something else? I picked up Terminator 2 Extreme Edition (the 1080p version) and can play it on my Dell Inspiron 9100 which has an HDMI out on the back. I was hoping to connect to the new set over HDMI to show it off but know I'm confused. Can anyone enlighten me on why the port is not PC compatible?

...Mike

BTW, I'm familiar with the fact that the 5688 can't take in a 1080p signal but I figured there'd be some conversion going on but I didn't think that'd be a hugh issue. Thanks.

Heyho,
I'm also on the preorder list for the power buy for the 5688 and I have a question. I'm looking at the page in the owner's manual showing the rear panel jacks and the HDMI ports say "Not compatible with PC". Is this some sort of DRM issue or something else? I picked up Terminator 2 Extreme Edition (the 1080p version) and can play it on my Dell Inspiron 9100 which has an HDMI out on the back. I was hoping to connect to the new set over HDMI to show it off but know I'm confused. Can anyone enlighten me on why the port is not PC compatible?

...Mike

BTW, I'm familiar with the fact that the 5688 can't take in a 1080p signal but I figured there'd be some conversion going on but I didn't think that'd be a hugh issue. Thanks.

That manual is a preliminary copy. I would not rely on it 100%. In addition, very little information has been available on the 5688 ... so, we really need to wait and see the actual sets. On the HLRxx68W and 78W models, it is our expectation that we will be able to get the HDMI input working with computers at 1080i. It seems this should also be possible with the 5688 ... so don't give up on the capability. You will probably be one of the first to get the TV and will have the opportunity to run the first tests on the HDMI input.

If the HDMI input does not work for you, you should be able to switch to the PC/VGA input and run at 1920x1080@60Hz. This means you will be able to demo and play the game.

If the HDMI input does not work for you, you should be able to switch to the PC/VGA input and run at 1920x1080@60Hz. This means you will be able to demo and play the game.

That's what I figured. Thanks.

BTW, Terminator 2 Extreme Edition is a DVD of the movie encoded in 1080p. It only plays under Window Media player 9 or later and has some hefty hardware requirements. My laptop is barely under the requirements but it seems to play fine on its display which I'm running at 1920x1200 so it should have no problem with 1080.

That's what I figured. Thanks.

BTW, Terminator 2 Extreme Edition is a DVD of the movie encoded in 1080p. It only plays under Window Media player 9 or later and has some hefty hardware requirements. My laptop is barely under the requirements but it seems to play fine on its display which I'm running at 1920x1200 so it should have no problem with 1080.

I will definitely be picking it up! Sounds cool.

CLICK HERE (http://www.neodigits.com/body/product/HVD2081/feature.asp)
OK but the 1080P here is component (analog). Many of us are more concerned with how to get a digital signal in 1080p60 since it is rumored we could do analog via the VGA adapter anyway.

I have just added a Canadian ONLY Models section to POST #1. If anyone interested in the Canadian models notices any errors in the data, please bring them to my attention. Below is a copy of the new section. :)

=========================

Canadian ONLY Models:

The following models are Canadian ONLY models. They are based on the USA HLRxx67W series ... so you can look at the photos above in the HLRxx67W section (and in the HLRxx68W section) for an idea of what the cabinet looks like.

TABLETOP MODELS >>> HLRxx64W --- 64 Series --- Floating Screen Design

61" -- HLR6164W (Released, $xxxx)
56" -- HLR5664W (Released, $xxxx)
50" -- HLR5064W (Released, $xxxx)
42" -- HLR4264W (Released, $xxxx)

720p (1280x720) Resolution
Floating Screen Design, Anti-glare Matte Screen Finish
Cinema Smooth Generation 720P (Light Engine), DNIe (Video Enhancement)
Inputs: 1 HDMI, 1 DVI, 2 Component Video, 1 S-Video, 2 Composite, VGA/PC
Inputs: NO IEEE 1394 DTV Link
Digital Audio Out (optical)
ATSC Tuner / NTSC Tuner, NO Digital Cable Ready with CableCARD
NO TV Guide Electronic Program Guide
AnyNET (A Serial Connection Between Samsung Components That Allows Integrated Control Via Your Remote Control)
30 Watts, Internal Speakers
DLP Chip: per Samsung, New Generation 720p (HD4 (.55" 720p) --- confirmed from Samsung HLRxx67W brochure below --- TI has not shared the actually naming convention, so we are using HD4 to denote the next 720p chip after HD3)
DLP Chip Operation: 640 x 720 mirrors, each mirror quickly moves to produces 2 pixels displayed on the screen yielding a 1280x720 final resolution; pixels are diamond shaped and slightly overlap, producing a smooth pixel free image
Contrast Ratio: Up to 2500:1
Brightness (cd/m-sq): 61"=600, 56"=700, 50"=900, 42" = 1000 (estimate)
Lamp (Standard/Dynamic Display Setting): 42", 50", 56", 61"=(100W/120W) (estimate)
Color Wheel: 7 Segment
Power Consumption: 230 Watts (estimate)
NO Center Channel Shelf

You can turn DNIe ON and OFF, this is a feature that is not available on the 67 series, which requires DNIe to be on all of the time

In the POST above I say:

You can turn DNIe ON and OFF, this is a feature that is not available on the 67 series, which requires DNIe to be on all of the time

The common wisdom is that DNIe can not be turned off on the 67 series sets because there is no option to do this in the setup menu. But, I have been wondering if that is really true. When you setup an input on the 67 series you can label it with GAME. I have been wondering if in selecting GAME, you don't change the performance of that input. Specifically, DNIe may be diminished or turned off. Has anyone researched this?

Arg, they better not fudge my 68 model too, damn canadian models *shakes fist*

- D

Two questions:

1. Will component and HDMI generate the same HD picture. because I would like to free up the HDMI for an upconvert dvd player. Should I do this and use component for my cable. Will the HD picture still look the same or less.

2. Right now when I stream video from my computer to tv, I use an s-video cable and audio cables. But how can I use the pc cable option. You need to use a 15-point cable, which I understand, but isnt this already going from my computer monitor to cpu. Is there a way to have 1 computer cable go from the computer monitor to cpu for display use, and another computer cable go from cpu to tv (pc input) so I can see the computer stuff on the tv. Will this work or can I only use either the computer display or tv display.

Two questions:

1. Will component and HDMI generate the same HD picture. because I would like to free up the HDMI for an upconvert dvd player. Should I do this and use component for my cable. Will the HD picture still look the same or less.

2. Right now when I stream video from my computer to tv, I use an s-video cable and audio cables. But how can I use the pc cable option. You need to use a 15-point cable, which I understand, but isnt this already going from my computer monitor to cpu. Is there a way to have 1 computer cable go from the computer monitor to cpu for display use, and another computer cable go from cpu to tv (pc input) so I can see the computer stuff on the tv. Will this work or can I only use either the computer display or tv display.

1. HDMI is better then Component purely because there's no Analog to Digital transfer, but component should work lovely, hopefully someone else can elaborate more on this. Also there's 2 HDMI ports on the 1080p sets if you need them.

2. You have two options:

a) get a VGA splitter cable from say Tiger Direct or NewEgg.com or wherever you feel like shopping. Basically you plug the single end into your video card, and plug your monitor into one jack, and your TV into the other.

b) Check your video card, most modern video cards have more then one port (usually a DVI port and a VGA port). DVI is preffered but for some reason Samsung seems to still like VGA for the PC connection, I've priced out a 30' VGA cable for my room, it's not going to be cheap ;_;

Good luck!

- D

I've priced out a 30' VGA cable for my room, it's not going to be cheap ;_;


How fancy are you going to get :p

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/rgbhv/index.htm


John

How fancy are you going to get :p

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/rgbhv/index.htm


John


*smacks head* damnit I didn't know BJC sold VGA (HD15) as well! How did I miss that?

*tosses jpoet a beer*

- D

Arg, they better not fudge my 68 model too, damn canadian models *shakes fist*

- D

D ... one positive note for the Canadian models is that the 720p units have two digital inputs. One more than the USA models. For people that don't care about the CableCard or 1394 parts of the system, the Canadian models may have something to offer. It is not clear to me at this point, what else might be different on them.

Daphoid, you might want to look at these guys Monoprice (http://www.monoprice.com). I bought some cables from them (haven't used them yet - waiting for the new set) and the build quality seems to be pretty good. For your long run a more expensive cable may be necessary. However, given the prices these guys have you might just want to give them a try - you wouldn't be out much money if it didn't work out.

I've priced out a 30' VGA cable for my room, it's not going to be cheap ;_;

Good luck!

- D

D ... I'm not completely sure, but 30' seems like a really long run. You might want to check this before you buy or make sure that you can return the cable if your picture looks bad. Before switching to all digital, I used to run VGA cables in my home office and I had all kinds of problems on runs much shorter than you are trying to setup.

2. Right now when I stream video from my computer to tv, I use an s-video cable and audio cables. But how can I use the pc cable option. You need to use a 15-point cable, which I understand, but isnt this already going from my computer monitor to cpu. Is there a way to have 1 computer cable go from the computer monitor to cpu for display use, and another computer cable go from cpu to tv (pc input) so I can see the computer stuff on the tv. Will this work or can I only use either the computer display or tv display.

The best approach is to use a video card in your PC that supports two monitors. Check your existing card, it probably does. But, if it doesn't, pickup a new card that does. They are available in all price ranges.

If you are going to use VGA for 1080p I highly recommend a high end cable.

As for DVI and HDMI, you typically won't see a difference with different
cables - they either will work or not.

But with VGA which is analog transmission different cables are like
night and day. I have used the following with excellent results:
http://www.bettercables.com/vgacables.html

At 720p there was barely any noticable difference between VGA
and HDMI using a 2 meter version of the above cable.

I'm trying to decide how to do this, I have about a 30-35' run from my computer to TV.

Option A:

1. a male to male HD15 (VGA) Cable from Computer to Sammy
2. a Male HD15 (VGA) to Component (the 3 "sync on green" option from Blue Jeans Cable I beleive) (about 6') to my receiver, then component switching courtesty of the receiver.

Link: http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/rgbhv/index.htm

Option B is cheaper, but I want the nicest picture possible.

Can the DLP's handle the resolution I want (1920x1080 @ 60hz) via Component jack? that's my only question.

THoughts?

- D

EDIT: As for Bettercables, they are nice cables, but way out of my price range, BJC is a good deal cheaper for the length I want, and has received praise every time I mention them.

I'm trying to decide how to do this, I have about a 30-35' run from my computer to TV.

Option A:

1. a male to male HD15 (VGA) Cable from Computer to Sammy
2. a Male HD15 (VGA) to Component (the 3 "sync on green" option from Blue Jeans Cable I beleive) (about 6') to my receiver, then component switching courtesty of the receiver.

Link: http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/rgbhv/index.htm

Option B is cheaper, but I want the nicest picture possible.

Can the DLP's handle the resolution I want (1920x1080 @ 60hz) via Component jack? that's my only question.

THoughts?

- D

EDIT: As for Bettercables, they are nice cables, but way out of my price range, BJC is a good deal cheaper for the length I want, and has received praise every time I mention them.

D ... I think you have a really challenging problem here. After further thought, I really don't think the the 30' VGA run will work at the 1080p resolution. I'd get a second opinion if I was you, but my prior experience leads me to believe that this will not work.

The component option would have to be at 1080i. You probably can get some distance on 1080i on component, but it is an area that I have not explored yet. I do have a multiroom system in my home and longer runs do seem to degrade the signal beyond what you would accept. Perhaps someone in the front projector forum might have enough experience with these longer runs. Again, I really have doubts about a 30' component cable run at 1080i, but someone that has tried it could convince me. I would think cables would get really expensive.

If I was doing the project. Here is what I would consider first. At 30', I would go out the back of the computer via DVI using a DVI to HDMI cable (or just a HDMI to HDMI cable with a HDMI to DVI adapter). I would pick a length that would allow no signal degradation and test it. Then I would put a HDMI signal booster in line and run an HDMI cable to the TV. This should yield a solid signal. You would be using one of the HDMI inputs at 1080i. Anything I purchased I would be sure was returnable. Be prepared long cable run projects can be plenty frustrating. I don't know what you are going to be using the computer for, but if it is gaming, I would ask the mfg about lag on the booster. You could also check the HDMI spec to see what the max distance is, it may be 30' or greater and then you could drop the booster.

You could just move your computer 20' closer and save yourself a lot of grief.

Okay I found a stand that will work (<54" W & <18" H) for my HL-R5668W in my hole in the wall. It is a Bush VS42642-02 stand they sell at Best Buy (I can't find it anywhere else online). It is 18"H and 49.5"W so about 1.5" will be hanging over on either side. You can get a picture of the stand at...

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=6982152&type=product&productCategoryId=cat03116&id=1099388426512

So what do you thinK? Why is BB the only place that has this, it isn't in the Spring 2005 Bush Entertainment Furtniture Catalog. Apparently it was on sale last week but I didn't see it until today.

Daphoid,

It is my understanding that the TV you pre-oredered will accept
1080p via VGA but not ith wany other input.

So if you don't want to splurge for the high end cable you are
much better off using HDMI with 1080i since 1080p VGA over a low
end cable will look like crap.

I was blown away by the difference the BetterCables VGA cable
made...

Best regards,

Tony

Okay I found a stand that will work (<54" W & <18" H) for my HL-R5668W in my hole in the wall. It is a Bush VS42642-02 stand they sell at Best Buy (I can't find it anywhere else online). It is 18"H and 49.5"W so about 1.5" will be hanging over on either side. You can get a picture of the stand at...

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=6982152&type=product&productCategoryId=cat03116&id=1099388426512

So what do you thinK? Why is BB the only place that has this, it isn't in the Spring 2005 Bush Entertainment Furtniture Catalog. Apparently it was on sale last week but I didn't see it until today.

The Bush Galaxy (of their Newport Bay line) is close to your requirements: 48"W,24"D,20"H, for $165 at www.racksandstands.com, and it comes in black.

The Bush Galaxy (of their Newport Bay line) is close to your requirements: 48"W,24"D,20"H, for $165 at www.racksandstands.com, and it comes in black.

Close doesn't count, I can't have a stand over 18" Tall or over 54" Wide (this fails the height requirement so it is no good).

No space for a center speaker either.

HDMI will also be superior to component video for some premium stations such as HBO-HD if you are using an HD-DVR. HBO-HD has a proprietary system that down-rezzes HD from component video out, but passes the full signal through HDMI or DVI.

The resolution on my component out is the same as my HDMI out on my HD-TiVos.

The resolution on my component out is the same as my HDMI out on my HD-TiVos.
Any device that outputs using component must convert digital information to analog. A digital TV like the Samsung DLPs must convert all analog information to digital before it can be displayed. The result is an increase in errors.

Thank you for the great information. I have a follow-up question on hooking up to a computer. What is the best option of outputting sound from a computer. If I were to watch DVD's I clearly would not want to listen to the sound coming form the computer speakers. Are there sound cards that have coax or optical outs? I was at best buy and it seemed like only the top sound blaster model had an optical out.

I would not want to use a "made for computer" sound system. I would want to have the sound output run through my reciever and listen to the sound through my home theater system. Any advice would be appreciated.

Long time reader, first time poster here :) First of all, a big thanks to all who have posted and/or work on this forum. It has made my decision to purchase much easier.

I have just purchased the HLR-4667 and am picking it up on Friday from a store approx 15 miles away. I was planning to keep it in the box and just put it in the back of my SUV, but the sales rep indicated that the tv should not be put on its side and should remain upright during transit. Is this true? I am wondering if laying the tv on its side (i.e screen-side down or back-side down) will cause damage to the set or was the sales guy just trying to get me to spend $35 to have it delivered.

Thanks again

GDTRFB42, this question has been asked several times and the answer based on actual experience seems to be that they can be put on their back/front. I'm sure that on the box it says "this side up", but short distances on front/back doesn't seem to harm the sets.

What is the best option of outputting sound from a computer.
You want to use either a coax or an optical connection (digital) to your receiver.

I'm using coax from my sound card (Creative DB Audigy 2XS and it's not one of the highest priced Sound Blaster cards. Iamb using it's coax connection. It may be more expensive to find optical outputs on sound cards, but coax is just as good and the cables are more rugged.

I was at best buy and it seemed like only the top sound blaster model had an optical out.
BB is not a good place to buy computer components. Check out this forum and you will get help on various sound cards and good placed to buy them on-line.

Home Theater Computers (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=26)


I would want to have the sound output run through my reciever and listen to the sound through my home theater system.
That's what HTPCs or for. :o

[QUOTE=UCSB]I have just added a Canadian ONLY Models section to POST #1. If anyone interested in the Canadian models notices any errors in the data, please bring them to my attention. Below is a copy of the new section. :)

=========================

[[
61" -- HLR6164W (Released, $xxxx)
56" -- HLR5664W (Released, $xxxx)
50" -- HLR5064W (Released, $xxxx)
42" -- HLR4264W (Released, $xxxx)

Hey USCB
You've done an amazing job for us. Much appreciated for your time and effort.
I do have some corrections for the Canadian editions of the "64" series as well as info on the upcoming 1080p series which will be limited to four models only in Canada of course. First there will not be any 56" versions in Canada wether 720p or 1080p models. There is a HLR4664W available.

HLR 4264 W $2499. MSRP- $2299. Dealer
HLR 4664 W $2799. MSRP- $2599.
HLR 5064 W $2999. MSRP- $2799.
HLR 6164 W $3799. MSRP- $3599.

1080p models

HLR 5078 W $3999. MSRP - $3799. Dealer
HLR 6178 W $4799. MSRP - $4499.
HLR 6168 W $4799. MSRP - $4499.
HLR 7178 W $6999. MSRP - $6499.

http://www.samsung.ca/cgi-bin/nasecabc/en/b2c/product/product_subtype.jsp?LoginFlag=NO&prod_path=%2fConsumer+Products%2fTV,+Video+%26+Audio%2fTV%2f DLP+TV

I've been scanning this thread and understand there are no plans this year for a 46" 1080p Samsung DLP. So, what's the collective wisdom about next year? A 46" set (43" from side to side) is the absolute max I can fit in the corner of my room. But I really WANT :eek: a 1080p for the better contrast and other enhancements. How long do you think I'll be waiting?

Second question: has anyone invented a center channel shelf that works with these slim DLP sets yet? The ones I've seen say they're for CRTs only.

Thanks!

Angus

I currently have a 25' Component video run, which seems fine on my Sony Wega, will this cause issues when I upgrade the TV soon?

I understand Better Cable is nice cable, but I just can't justify $350+ USD for a cable. I don't consider Blue Jeans Cable that low end either, their stuff seems very solid to me. I've emailed them so I'll see what they say.

- D

morfeeus ... thanks for the updates for the Canadian section. I'll add them tonight. Where did you get your info on the 1080p sets? I'm a little surprised by the missing models in Canada and know others were interested in some of the missing models.

USCB - the Canadian MSRP prices and models cames from a Samsung rep as well as a Samsung dealer.

Long time reader, first time poster here :) First of all, a big thanks to all who have posted and/or work on this forum. It has made my decision to purchase much easier.

I have just purchased the HLR-4667 and am picking it up on Friday from a store approx 15 miles away. I was planning to keep it in the box and just put it in the back of my SUV, but the sales rep indicated that the tv should not be put on its side and should remain upright during transit. Is this true? I am wondering if laying the tv on its side (i.e screen-side down or back-side down) will cause damage to the set or was the sales guy just trying to get me to spend $35 to have it delivered.

Thanks again

Schaffer970 is one of our most knowledgable and technical contributors to this thread. I don't think I have ever disagreed with one of his posts in the past six months. But, I have my doubts about transporting the TV on it's side.

My doubts stem from an unproven theory that I have. Here it is in a nutshell. I have been fascinated by the variance in reports on pincushioning we have seen on a given model. This is most visible when people are watching 4:3 material in normal mode and they report that the right and left borders are not straight (the black borders are curving in toward the center of the TV). The funny thing is that some people say the borders are straight. Others say there is various levels of curvature, up to say 1/2" or so. I have even read a report where someone with this problem had a service tech reseat their light engine assembly and saw a reduction in this problem. Also, some reports of a soft or fuzzy picture may be related to this issue. People come on the forum and ask how to correct this problem on a regular basis. Up to this point in time the only answer we have been able to give out is ... the curvature is normal and there is nothing you can do. I would like to stress that it is only a theory. But, I guess my concern would be a slight repositioning/realignment of the light engine in the chassis while the TV is on it's side. If anyone has had any experiences that can either confirm or disprove this theory, please post.

If you do pickup the TV and transport it on it's side, please come back here and report the degree of curvature you are seeing in the set. Obviously, if your borders are straight then this theory would be suspect.

When I picked up my 46" Samsung DLP, it fit in the back of my brother's Land Cruiser SUV ... so it might be a good idea to check the box dimensions on the samsungusa.com site. $35 does sound reasonable, if it leads to proper handling ... now that is another discussion altogether.

USCB - the Canadian MSRP prices and models cames from a Samsung rep as well as a Samsung dealer.

Thank you. But, did the dealer tell you that the missing models were not going to be offered in all of Canada?

Well I am a little confused about which models are going to be released when. I called my local Tweeter today, in Maryland, and they said that they have nine HLR5678 units on order. They explained further that they are due to arrive in their warehouse by June 30th. I decided to call Samsung customer service to see if I could find an estimated release date for this model and the HLR-5668. The customer service guy I spoke to, mind you he is only a customer service guy, said that the end of June was the original release date for these models but that target has been pushed back for about sixty days. I then called Tweeter back and they said if this were true the warehouse arrival date would have changed in their system. The Tweeter sales guy said that he could get a more definitive answer by Wednesday by emailing the direct buyer for this region. Hopefully, he will be able to tell me more on Wednesday.

I have a couple of questions that maybe you all can help me with regarding the two above mentioned models. Firstly, the only difference is cosmetics correct? The HLR-5668 will be the floating screen model and the HLR-5678 will be the black lacquer model without the floating screen?

It is kind of odd that Tweeter only listed the HLR-5678 as coming into their warehouse and not the HLR-5668. Why does everyone seem to like the floating screen on the 68 series better than the non floating screen on the 78 series?

Tweeter also had the HL-R5667 model, which uses the HD2+ chip, readily available. I am not sure that I want to wait sixty or so days for the 68 or 78 series if that is indeed how long it is going to be be before they are released. With that being said, do you all think that 1080P is worth the wait? Or should I just go for the HLR-5667 with the HD2+ chip now?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and your input.

Snowbum, you are correct in that the only difference between the 68 and 78 series is cosmetic. As for the 67 series they use the HD4 chip not the HD2+. The HD4 chip is wobulated meaning that one mirror on the chip creates two pixels on the screen (you may want to read the owners thread). The 77 and 87 series have the HD2+ chip in them.

I might also point out that not everyone prefers the floating screen design of the xx68 series to the more sedate framing of the xx78 sets. I started out preferring the xx68 style but have switched to favoring the xx78's.

Why does everyone seem to like the floating screen on the 68 series better than the non floating screen on the 78 series?

Both the 68 and 78 series are nice. Have you seen the photos in the high resolution gallery in POST #1 of this thread? People that have chosen the 68 series have noted that: 1) they like the modern styling; 2) they like the non-reflective flat bezel on the TV.

With that being said, do you all think that 1080P is worth the wait?
I think it is definitely worth the wait. Currently, TV Authority is expecting the HLR5668W around July 25th for the PowerBuy.

I am currently looking at finally moving into the HD world and looking to purchase Samsung HLR-5668

Anyway – last year I had my townhouse wired and had an AV closet built. Because the distance from the closet to the “future” TV was too long for DVI cable, I decided to run CAT6 cables and use a converter/signal booster to send the transmission to the TV. The product I am looking as is a DVI Extender by Gefen.

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=2515


I am wondering if anyone on the forums has any experience with this product. If so – any advice would be appreciated.

Secondly – Once the TV arrives I will be upgrading my DirecTV dish/ receiver and DVD player to support HDMI. Since my AV receiver does not support DVI/HDMI (Denon 3805) I am looking at another Gefen product.

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=2654


Has anyone had any experience with this product? I guess I am worried about lip sync issues and TV lag most of all.

It is kind of odd that Tweeter only listed the HLR-5678 as coming into their warehouse and not the HLR-5668. Why does everyone seem to like the floating screen on the 68 series better than the non floating screen on the 78 series?

Tweeter also had the HL-R5667 model, which uses the HD2+ chip, readily available. I am not sure that I want to wait sixty or so days for the 68 or 78 series if that is indeed how long it is going to be be before they are released. With that being said, do you all think that 1080P is worth the wait? Or should I just go for the HLR-5667 with the HD2+ chip now?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and your input.

From my understanding Tweeter and other high end AV stores are being allocated the 78 series, while the 68 series are being allocated to the BB and CC of the world. Since the internal components are identical - I believe preference will depend on the individual.

Second - my personal opinion is it really depends on how long you plan on keeping your television.

If you are going to purchase every two years or so – then the going with an in stock television will be a great buy. Most likely the TV will be an upgrade from what you currently have and you should be able to get a reasonable price. In 1-2 years when you are ready to purchase again – technology will be that more advanced with true 1080P inputs or better.

Otherwise if you are going to keep your TV for more than two years – then going with the newer DLP’s would be my choice. This way you get the latest technology out with hopefully the best quality. Hopefully this technology will just be getting outdated when you are ready to re-purchase in 3-7 years.

I bought my current TV in 1987. I'm not enamored with the idea of dropping several thousand on a TV and replacing it in 3-7 years.

People do it with cars which cost alot more. I get much more enjoyment from my TV than my car. For me it will be worth it to trade up in a few years. My car will be 10 years old in a few years and I will still be driving it. I'd much rather have a few thousand go toward a TV than any car.

HBO-HD has a proprietary system that down-rezzes HD from component video out, but passes the full signal through HDMI or DVI.

uh, where did you get this info ? Have been watching HBO-HD over component from Cablevisions SA8300HD (and previously 4200hd) for over a year now, and it's definitely HD, not downres'd

HBO-HD has a proprietary system that down-rezzes HD from component video out, but passes the full signal through HDMI or DVI.

I don't think thats true. I mean think about it. How would HBO know what your cable box is doing? It is just a signal passed on by your cable provider and that is it. It isn't any different than all the other HD channels. The cable box is not going to display different HD channels differently other than in the resolution that they are at and up or downconverting based on what you've set the box up to do.

Thank you. But, did the dealer tell you that the missing models were not going to be offered in all of Canada?

The Samsung rep had stated that these eight models would only be available in Canada. There would be no 77s,88s nor 56" screen sizes of the 68s and 78s.

......
My doubts stem from an unproven theory that I have. Here it is in a nutshell. I have been fascinated by the variance in reports on pincushioning we have seen on a given model. This is most visible when people are watching 4:3 material in normal mode and they report that the right and left borders are not straight (the black borders are curving in toward the center of the TV). The funny thing is that some people say the borders are straight. Others say there is various levels of curvature, up to say 1/2" or so. I have even read a report where someone with this problem had a service tech reseat their light engine assembly and saw a reduction in this problem. Also, some reports of a soft or fuzzy picture may be related to this issue. People come on the forum and ask how to correct this problem on a regular basis. Up to this point in time the only answer we have been able to give out is ... the curvature is normal and there is nothing you can do. I would like to stress that it is only a theory. But, I guess my concern would be a slight repositioning/realignment of the light engine in the chassis while the TV is on it's side. If anyone has had any experiences that can either confirm or disprove this theory, please post.



I have seen this effect on a few Samsung DLPs at different retailers. I haven't noticed if this was on the similar models or not, but at the last time I saw it it was on a HLPxx74 at Magnolia. It seemed fairly pronounced to me (more than 1/2 inch) on the left side.

This isn't meant to disprove UCSB's theory....Only that if there is a misalignment or movement of the light engine assembly, it could occur pre-sale (at the factory, or subsequent transportation to retail outlet), as well as post-sale. So if you get it home and you experience this...where can you attribute the root cause to...

The Samsung rep had stated that these eight models would only be available in Canada. There would be no 77s,88s nor 56" screen sizes of the 68s and 78s.

Thanks, I've updated the Canada section in POST #1.

Does anyone know how the boxes in which these sets come are taken apart?

Do the top and sides, for instance, lift/slide off exposing the set which sits on the box base?

I'm trying to see if I can manuver this set to some degree before it is placed upon a tv stand.

(I'm assuming that the power buy delivery means that the set comes, boxed, to the entrance of the house?)

Thanks, in advance.

I am wondering if laying the tv on its side (i.e screen-side down or back-side down) will cause damage to the set or was the sales guy just trying to get me to spend $35 to have it delivered.
If you do move the TV yourself I would keep the screen up and put as much padding as possible under it to reduce vibration.

One additional problem is that you will be stirring up any residue left over from manufacturing. Junk that has remained safely in the bottom of your set will get to move all over the place.

Given the price of the TV it seems to me that it might be worth the $35 to have it delivered upright. As for the salesman, I don't think there could be anything left over after the truck and crew are paid for. :)

Ed: I saw a couple of the sets (Sammy 720Ps) at the Sam's store the other day. They were in the cardboard shipping boxes. I expected them to be in wooden crates, but not the case. The boxes were not vertically rectangular. Maybe they did it that way so that you couldn't put another box on top of it. I did not think that the box looked very sturdy, at all!! Of course, I did not see what sort of packing was in the inside.

I expected them to be in wooden crates, but not the case.
I've never seen a TV shipped in a wooden crate. :confused:

Ed: One other thing, from the look of those shipping boxes, I just don't think that you would want to lay it on its side.

htwaits: well, I don't know what the "industry" standard is for shipping, but the boxes just looked plain flimsy to me!!! It really made me wonder about having one shipped.

How about a few comments out there from those of you who have had one delivered UPS, FEDEX, Motor Freight, etc. Any problems? What carrier was used?

(I'm assuming that the power buy delivery means that the set comes, boxed, to the entrance of the house?)

Thanks, in advance.

You are buying it from an internet dealer. Keep that in mind, you are going to get a delivery like any item you were to purchase over the internet. Instead of UPS they use a company that deals with bigger items. So yes they will just drop it off at your door. It seems like the serive you need it what a B&M store would offer where they actually have delivery people that bring into your house. Could be wrong.

The Samsung specs for the 6168w, for example show the set as weighing 94.6 lbs and the shipping weight at 120.2 lbs.

So, the 25+ lbs of packaging, I'm assuming, gives the set a certain degree of protection in shipment. Right?(!)

Does anyone know how the boxes in which these sets come are taken apart?

Do the top and sides, for instance, lift/slide off exposing the set which sits on the box base?

I'm trying to see if I can manuver this set to some degree before it is placed upon a tv stand.

(I'm assuming that the power buy delivery means that the set comes, boxed, to the entrance of the house?)

Thanks, in advance.

My old HLN was delivered in a box that has them new fangled plastic clips along the bottom that you have to squeeze and then pull them out, allowing the top to be lifted off. That leaves the TV sitting in the base portion of the box. If the new sets come packaged like that, and I can't imagine that they wouldn't because even my pricey Qualia was delivered in a similar box (albeit with a much sturdier base given the weight), I wouldn't want to lay this thing down on any side. The TV is not "fixed" to the base portion of the box nor is there any sort of styrofoam inserts on the top of the set keeping it firmly positioned in the upper portion of the box.

BenDover,

Thanks for the data.

I'd much rather have a few thousand go toward a TV than any car.In a few decades, a few thousand a year equates to a huge amount of money (including interest). A car isn't your only alternative; retirement, mortgage-free, college for the kids, travel with the wife... many choices for that money.

HBO-HD does not down-rezz all programming through component video, but they have the ability to do so. I read in another forum that they are not doing this for Hollywood movies now, but do some for some of their original programming that they hope to subsequently sell on DVD.

Question - since I've been researching long cable runs... Is there anything wrong with a 25' component video run (it's been wonderful for SD so far, but I'm curious about HD).

Also same question for HDMI? I'm going to have about a 20-25' run for both my cable box and my DVD player (seperate cables).

I've been trying to hunt down a VGA amplifier, but the only ones I've found so far have like 8 ports, and I only need 1, or maybe 2.

- D

I got a question about 720p/1080i. If I hook up a HD-tuner to my Samsung and set it to 1080i output, wouldn't that defeat the purpose? I mean the DLP only displays 720p. So wouldn't it be doing double the work by down converting the 1080i into 720p and then displaying it? I've seen people say that they set their tuners to 1080i. Isn't setting it to 720p or 1080i virtually the same thing?

Question- If I'm watching Monday Night Football,which is broadcast in 720p by ABC, on the new 1080p Samsung 5678,will the signal be upconverted to 1080p or will I be watching 720p. I am mainly buying the TV for sports broadcast,as ESPN and Fox also broadcast in 720p, and want to be sure I'll be getting at least as good as the old models,hopefully better. Thanks

The 720p signal will be upconverted to 1080p. If it wasn't it would only fill half the screen.

Question- If I'm watching Monday Night Football,which is broadcast in 720p by ABC, on the new 1080p Samsung 5678,will the signal be upconverted to 1080p or will I be watching 720p.
All input sources have to be converted to 1080p. Which is better has to wait until you can see the 1080p sets. :)

DAMN HTwaits, you beat me too it :D

Okay, NOW I am REALLY ready for my HL-R5668W. If only the dat had not been delayed a month... :mad:

The set will just fit the veritcal space left and will just overhang the sides of the stand.

I had to drop the bottom shelf by 1/4" and raise the top shelf by 1/4" in order to get the Sony 400 disc changer to fit on the bottom shelf. Still as I slid it in I thought it wasn't going to fit ( :eek: NOOOO!!!) but luckily I was able to jam it in there (now I am just a bit worried about the horrors of thermal expansion.)

I feel relieved. :D Time to buy cables. :(

I seem to be at a point where my patience for waiting for these 1080p's is continually tested. I will wait, but this is proving more and more difficult with each passing sunrise. I've had my installer to my home to iron-out the final details and review his final proposal. We've agreed upon all hardware, from the 6168 to a semi-custom Salamander stand to the DVD player, receiver, power conditioner, front speakers, surrounds, center, woofer, etc. We've agreed upon cost (our budget increased 40% from original in Aug '04 to accommodate a 6168 vs 6167, the Salamander stand and upgraded speakers - with wife's OK!). Really, everything is in place, except the DLP. And, I'm not absolutely certain I'll be going with the 6168. In theory, it should be great, but my installer will put one through vigorous testing to ensure there are no 'first release' bugs. If there are problems that cause him to suggest otherwise, I'm not sure what I'll go with, either another manufacturer's 1080p, or the Samsung 6167. Not sure (will stay w/ DLP). But I'm ready to hop on board this merry-go-round right now!

DAMN HTwaits, you beat me too it :D
That answer should be programed into the F7 key. :D

Okay so here is my problem , I want to watch something from my computer also on my HL-R4667, but want both the computer monitor and tv to be able to be displaying at the same time. Will this work. I want to do it this way so I dont have to use an s-video cable from cpu to tv anymore to watch stuff.

Right now I have the VGA cable going from cpu to desktop monitor(this is normal to use my computer for everyday use). My cpu also has a dvi slot. Can I run a dvi to vga cable from cpu to TV. J&R sells this cable. Or should I just get a dvi to vga adapter and get another vga to vga cable to run between the adapter and tv. Will both of these work. Please help.

scherer326 "DVI TO VGA cable question "

You can view the tv and computer monitor at the same time since you have two outputs on your video card. As far as which cable configuration is best, I am not sure. But I would think one cable (DVI) to whatever your tv inputs would be better than using adapters and two cables.

I am saying will a DVI to VGA cable work from my cpu to tv. Can my tv handle this

Okay so here is my problem , I want to watch something from my computer also on my HL-R4667, but want both the computer monitor and tv to be able to be displaying at the same time. Will this work. I want to do it this way so I dont have to use an s-video cable from cpu to tv anymore to watch stuff.

Right now I have the VGA cable going from cpu to desktop monitor(this is normal to use my computer for everyday use). My cpu also has a dvi slot. Can I run a dvi to vga cable from cpu to TV. J&R sells this cable. Or should I just get a dvi to vga adapter and get another vga to vga cable to run between the adapter and tv. Will both of these work. Please help.

www.bluejeanscable.com sells the cable you're looking for - VGA is also known as "HD15" you can find these cables under the RGBHV section of the website. Choose the length you need and enjoy! You'd probably better off getting a VGA-DVI adapter for your computer monitor, and using the VGA -> VGA for your PC->TV connectivity. Remember to set the resolution for the second display (that's what Windows will detect it as) to 1280x720