Just something for everyone to think about ... I don't think that Samsung will produce both 67" and 70" 78 series. I really think it is going to be one or the other. Probably the 70". I don't have anything to base that on except that there wasn't a 67" 78 series at CES and I can't imagine retailers stocking (or using floor space to display) both or customers trying to decide to step up 3" after they have gone to 67".

I'm thinking of changing text to read OR between these units. Any thoughts?

I agree. In addition, Samsung made a big point out of the 67" DLP being the "World's First And Largest 1080P DLP™". One wouldn't think they were going to one-up themselves anytime real soon. But then who knows?

*sighs* I hate to say it but you're probably right.

On the plus side the 61" *IS* cheaper (which is GOOD!!) and 60" - 70" is a big enough difference that I won't cry at night. 61-67 would've drive me batty

- D

Also you won't have to sit so far away from it :) Think of it as the intimate 60 incher :D

The 7078 (and 5078) had no apparent counterpart in the 68 series, and the 6768 had no apparent counterpart in the 78 series. If I were to guess which is more likely to make production, my vote would be for the 6768 (although the man in me wants them to release the 70" badly...).

Has anyone heard if the CableCard tuner is a single or dual tuner model? I'm just wondering if this would give us PIP capabilities.

I certainly agree with the above thoughts about the 6768 and 7078 being the units that will be offered. After all, that is what was shown at the CES.

One thing that I would really like to know is will the new 1080p models fit in cabinet with a width of less than 49.5 or 50 inches.

I have to modify my cabinet and can probably squeeze that much out.

I am just wondering how big a difference the 1080P VS the 720P in terms of PQ mostly I watch Sports and movies and PS2. Is the 1080P really that much better particularly at 50 or 46 inches . Will the 1080 extend the obsolescence factor Vs 760P.

Will the new 760 chips be that much better the 74 models?

I am novice as far as the technology goes I thought the PQ hlp 5085 looks great to me but is too wide.

I appreciate any advice you have to offer.

Thanks

BJPJJS


I appreciate any guidance I can get on these points.

Originally posted by bjpjjs
One thing that I would really like to know is will the new 1080p models fit in cabinet with a width of less than 49.5 or 50 inches.

The current HLP5063 is 46.54" wide so any 50" set with a bezel should be close to that width.

Is the 1080P really that much better particularly at 50 or 46 inches.

As one who has not seen a 1080p set under 82" I will predict that the high resolution will make a bigger difference as the screen gets bigger. You might have to wait a very long time for a 46" 1080p. I didn't read anything about 46" sets at CES. If there is a 50" set, and there might be, then it will still be up to you and how you value the price/performance ratio between 720p and 1080p.

If you are looking for a bigger screen at the same distance from your chair then the 1080p sets should make a big difference.

Will the new 760 chips be that much better the 74 models?

What is a "760" chip? Do you mean an improved Wobble chip -- HD4? Again, it will probably be a matter of personal choice. Some like the "74" model sets better than the HD3 chip "wobble 63" models. Others don't or at least not enough to pay the difference in price.

I am novice as far as the technology goes I thought the PQ hlp 5085 looks great to me but is too wide.

So did a lot of people.

Wait and see or go for the spring bargains -- that's the tough choice.

I have added a link in the spec's area under 'TV Guide program guide' to Gemstars TV Guide Plus+ Gold DEMO. It gives you an idea of what the FREE electronic program guide will be like.

For Comcast Motorola 6412 HD DVR users, I believe it will be very similar to the TV Guide, iGuide, currently on our Comcast Motorola 6412 HD DVR's.

I've clarified the description of AnyNet in each spec's area.

I've deleted the HLR6778W. We have not found enough evidence of it's existence. This leaves us with 50", 56", 61", and 70" 78 series units.

I've added measurements for the current HLPxx63W series units to the specs. These are probably a good approximation to the final measurements and will help people answer basic sizing questions.

I noticed when entering the 63 series measurements in the 720p 67 series area, that it appears that Samsung MAY have shaved another 1" to 1.25" off of the depth of those units.

I've added the following new issue to the open issues list:

10. Is the CableCard tuner a dual tuner model? Is it capable of PIP? Is the CableCard Tuner a second generation model capable of two way communications to support services like VOD (video on demand)?

Here is where our open issues stand right now.

========================

1. What is the PQ on the new 1080p models?

2. What TI DLP chips are used in the new models?

3. What are the DEPTH measurements, dimensions, and weight on the new series 68/78 models by model number? Even a couple of reference points would allow us to see the trend.

4. Will a IEEE1394 input/output be offered on the 67 or 87 series units?

5. What is the contrast ratio spec’s for the HLR5087W 720p pedestal model? If they had one on display, did anyone notice if the pixel pattern was HD2+ or newer HD4 pattern?

6. Given the increased video processing demands of 1080p, what is the capability of the 68/78/88 series 1080p sets to handle computer/video gaming? Specifically, what is lag?

7. What computer resolutions are supported on the 68, 78, and 88 series sets (1920x1080?)? How would this work through the HDMI connection (via DVI - HDMI cable?) Specifically, does it support 1920x1080. Since we THINK that we have confirmed that the 68, 78, and 88 will have VGA/PC input, what resolutions will be supported via this input?

8. Given the increased video processing required in the 1080p units 68, 78, 88 Series), what steps has Samsung taken to insure that we don't see lip sync issues? Did anyone ask specifically about this concern?

9. What, if any, are the speaker and audio (power output, sound processing) differences between the 68 and 78 series?

10. Is the CableCard tuner a dual tuner model? Is it capable of PIP? Is the CableCard Tuner a second generation model capable of two way communications to support services like VOD (video on demand)?

11. What is the MSRP for the 78 series units?

12. TOP PRIORITY QUESTION: Can anyone confirm that the 78 series (HLRxx78W) 50" and 70" models are real production models?

Administrator ... I sure hope that Steve P. will answer your email and clarify the status of the 50" and 70" 78 series!!! With that data, I would feel pretty good about the detailed profile that we have developed on these new Samsungs.

Bill,

great job on all of this. I recently registered, but I've been a long time reader of the forums (at least 2 years), and you've done a great job at continuing what makes AVS Forum a great place for information on home theater wares.

I too am very curious about the 50" set in the 78 series. This seems like it's exactly what I'm looking for.

If we do find out that this model will be in production, I think many of us can agree that the next logical question is, "When are we going to start a powerbuy for it?"

Welcome aboard Clorox and thanks. Resolving the status of the 50" and 70" is our top priority right now and we are really dependent on Samsung to do that ... hopefully we will hear soon. After the release of the 67" screen size, 70" seems like icing on the cake. But, the 50" seems like a critical screen size.

The 68 and 78 series look very attractive to me, is it certain they have 1394/firewire as well as HDMI?

Originally posted by uzun
The 68 and 78 series look very attractive to me, is it certain they have 1394/firewire as well as HDMI?
We are pretty sure they do, according to the posters at CES.

But with Samsung, we know anything could change...

I defintely agree with Administrator- what you see at the shows doesn't always make it to the final production models. That being said, we checked the input jacks for both the 67 & 78 series- the 78 series had 2 firewire, 2 hdmi and a pc input. The 67 series has 2 firewire, 1 hdmi and 1 pc input. I don't recall if we looking at the inputs on the 68 series but my guess is they will offer the same inputs as the 78 models.

Seems this is the first year that digital sets look at all attractive to me. Black levels keep getting better, scaling from 480 to 1080 via DVD player is getting better as well. With full 1080 resolution, good black levels, and the ability to scale from 480 to 1080 getting better and better, this is the first time I've been tempted to look hard at a fixed pixel digital RPTV. I'll definately give the 68 and 78 series a careful examination, particularly if they have 1394 interfaces as well as HDMI.

Kirk, is it your thinking that there will be both a 68 and 78 series and thus the 70"?

You are apparently the only person that actually looked at the back of a set and have confirmed various rumors regarding inputs! Thanks

Originally posted by schaffer970
Kirk, is it your thinking that there will be both a 68 and 78 series and thus the 70"?
I'm still trying to find out about the 50" and 70" HLRxx78W's - But I know that there will be both a 68 and 78 Series this year.

Steve told me the 78 Series ships in June.

Kirk, do you know if they are for sure making the 50" and 70" sets in the 78 Series?

I hope I'm not repeating a question already asked (this thread is fast moving and it's hard to keep up with it),

I'm curious if these new 1080p sets will spur new DVD players that can upscale to 1080p? Does HDMI have the bandwidth to carry 1080p?

Thanks
Bruce

A few other additional comments, many of which have been addressed: We've removed any references to chips for the Samsung products but I can speculate like everyone else - the xx67w series - HD4, xx68w series - xHD4, xx78w series - xHD4. xx88w-xHD4?. We asked Steve P. at the show about HD4/xHd4 and his response: "What is HD4?" Samsung & most of these manufacturers clearly want to move away from this spec.
The slim bezel "specialty" models are definitely going away and the HL-Rxx78w series appear to be the replacement. Much like the previous series, they are trying to give retailers who carry these a unique model which explains the 70" and at this point, I see no reason why it won't make it to production. Regarding specs, delivery dates & pricing: We posted some information on our site but it always subject to change and often does. It is very preliminary information at this point but i'll post here and on our site and we receive updates. Honestly, i don't have much more than what has already been posted here. Great job again to everyone for the wealth of information that has already been shared.

Originally posted by Kirk@TVAuthority
We've removed any references to chips for the Samsung products
Kirk,

FYI - You guys don't mention the chip under the "Specifications" for the HLR6168W, but you still have it in the title and description under "Product Features":

"Samsung 61" HL-R6168W DLP xHD3 Display"

"TVAuthority is proud to introduce the new Samsung HL-R6168W and the xHD3 chip, which is the newest in DLP technology. We at TVAuthority strive to keep you updated on new developments and encourage you to Join our Mailing List for the Samsung HL-P6168W."

http://www.tvauthority.com/DLP-TV-HDTV/Samsung-HL-R6168W.asp

Thanks Kirk for the information on the inputs! I've closed out our question about IEEE 1394 on the 67 series and updated our spec's at the top of the thread.

Our current open issues, as they now stand:

==============================

1. What is the PQ on the new 1080p models?

2. What TI DLP chips are used in the new models?

3. What are the DEPTH measurements, dimensions, and weight on the new series 68/78 models by model number? Even a couple of reference points would allow us to see the trend.

4. What is the contrast ratio spec’s for the HLR5087W 720p pedestal model? If they had one on display, did anyone notice if the pixel pattern was HD2+ or newer HD4 pattern?

5. Given the increased video processing demands of 1080p, what is the capability of the 68/78/88 series 1080p sets to handle computer/video gaming? Specifically, what is lag?

6. What computer resolutions are supported on the 68, 78, and 88 series sets (1920x1080?)? How would this work through the HDMI connection (via DVI - HDMI cable?) Specifically, does it support 1920x1080. Since we THINK that we have confirmed that the 68, 78, and 88 will have VGA/PC input, what resolutions will be supported via this input?

7. Given the increased video processing required in the 1080p units 68, 78, 88 Series), what steps has Samsung taken to insure that we don't see lip sync issues? Did anyone ask specifically about this concern?

8. What, if any, are the speaker and audio (power output, sound processing) differences between the 68 and 78 series?

9. Is the CableCard tuner a dual tuner model? Is it capable of PIP? Is the CableCard Tuner a second generation model capable of two way communications to support services like VOD (video on demand)?

10. What is the MSRP for the 78 series units?

11. TOP PRIORITY QUESTION: Can anyone confirm that the 78 series (HLRxx78W) 50" and 70" models are real production models?

Administrator- I'm not 100% sure but both were on display and this would give their specialty line a full range of sizes although i like to see something under 50" as well.
schaffer970- i do think both series will ship and their channel strategy appears to be similar to the exisiting 63/74 series of products.

Originally posted by BruceOmega
I hope I'm not repeating a question already asked (this thread is fast moving and it's hard to keep up with it),

I'm curious if these new 1080p sets will spur new DVD players that can upscale to 1080p? Does HDMI have the bandwidth to carry 1080p?

Thanks
Bruce

Hi Bruce and welcome. From the FAQ area at the top of the thread, these are our best insights on this issue.

10. Can the 68 series or 88 series 1080p sets accept a 1080p signal via the HDMI input? The general feeling is that the answer is NO ... but, did anyone ask this specific question?

Comments By HTwaits (AVS Member)

My understanding is that all of the 2005 batch of 1080p HDTV sets have 1080i input capability but not 1080p input capability.

I also have the impression that HD DVD players only output 1080i.

If I remember correctly, de-interlacing directly from 1080i to 1080p should give a very "true to the source" image unless a manufacturer de-interlaces 1080i to 520p instead of 1080p. I think scaling from 520p to 1080p would probably degrade the image.


Comments By Kyungkim (CES Attendee)

Yes I asked this specifically and got the reply that it does not, due to hdcp requirements. This has been pointed out to be bubkus, hdcp does not limit rez.

I asked this question at a number of mfg planning 1080p sets and the most telling came from sony. They said they do not support 1080p (in) since no consumer device is capable of outputing a true 1080p signal. Even the blu ray players sold in japan only output 1080i.

So im not holding my breadth on the digital side of the 1080p input on this generation, i dont think they will be capable of it. Im 99.99 percent positive the hdmi ports will not support 1080p from talking to the reps.

Im holding out against hope that the vga input hasnt been crippled. I know everyone wants digital, but rgb has been the way that g90 projectors have been fed with 1080p for years, so im sure it wont be so awful.

Originally posted by Kirk@TVAuthority
Administrator- I'm not 100% sure but both were on display and this would give their specialty line a full range of sizes although i like to see something under 50" as well.
Thanks Kirk! I'm trying to get final confirmation about the 5078 and 7078 from Steve Panosian. I'll post when I get info.

He did more or less tell me that the only new 46" this year will be the HLR4667W...

While Samsung appears to be maintaining that discrete commands are available on the HLP models for all inputs owners continue to report HDMI missing on some firmware versions and DVI missing on others. I don't think there have been any reports of both HDMI and DVI available on the same set.

It would be interesting to know what Samsung has to say about the HLR sets and the HLP sets.

Originally posted by htwaits
It would be interesting to know what Samsung has to say about the HLR sets and the HLP sets.
htwaits,

Please clarify... I'm not sure what you mean? :(

Are you asking that I create an open issue asking specifically about discrete commands for all inputs?

With all of these inputs, discrete commands would have to be a given. As Rumsfeld would say, this has to be a known, known.

I wouldn't mind seeing is something where you could label the inputs ... it seems like it would be a nice and easy addition.

You never know--but the 1080p sets seem to have no trouble at all deinterlacing 1080i from the current crop of upscaling DVD players. In fact that's how all 1080p content is provided on the new sets, as they cannot receive a 1080p signal (even the mighty Qualia SXRD, if I remember correctly). I'm not sure there would be any added benefit of an upscaler providing 1080p.

Maybe others could chime in.

Here's another picture of the 7078.

OK, I am trying to learn as much as I can ( and this is the place to learn).
I know about DVI and HDMI, but is Firewire yet another Audio/Video
connector ( like HDMI ) ? Is it better than HDMI or just another flavor ?

What kinds of devices would use Firewire for output, most DVD players are starting to use HDMI , are STB boxes going to Firewire ?

Dick W.

Originally posted by UCSB
Are you asking that I create an open issue asking specifically about discrete commands for all inputs?

Yes. :)

As I understand it Samsung is claiming discrete commands for all inputs on HLP models. Owners are disputing that claim in the Samsung HLP Discrete Codes (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4964080#post4964080) thread.

As an example, some sets have a working discrete command for DVI but not for HDMI. Others have the reverse situation. So far I haven't read a report of anyone with a HLP set who has a discrete command for both HDMI and DVI on the same set.

At this point I don't think it can be taken for granted that the HLR sets will have discrete commands for all inputs that work with the major universal remote controls.

Firewire is mostly used to connect to a cable box or a D-VHS machine. I remember the days when none of us knew which connection would be on the next-generation digital sets--firewire or dvi. That both appear to be on these tvs (if you count HDMI as a DVI "successor,") is a good thing.

Kirt, just a tiny tidbit and you have us all going for another couple of pages. :D Maybe a tidbit a week and we'll all survive until we can actually get the sets in our hot little hands. THANKS for the info!

Originally posted by Dick
OK, I am trying to learn as much as I can ( and this is the place to learn).
I know about DVI and HDMI, but is Firewire yet another Audio/Video
connector ( like HDMI ) ? Is it better than HDMI or just another flavor ?

What kinds of devices would use Firewire for output, most DVD players are starting to use HDMI , are STB boxes going to Firewire ?

Dick W.

If you are just learning about these HD TV's you will not have to worry about IEEE 1394, because you will just be getting a DVD player with a HDMI output. Your cable or satellite box will probably use HDMI (or DVI to HDMI conversion cable) or component video. IEEE 1394 is a two way connector which allows both input and output from the HDTV. People will use it to connect their computers or D-VHS (HD video tape recorder) to the TV and record from the TV's built in tuners. The same devices can also send the stored content back to the TV via 1394. 1394 has more capabilities than I've described here and there are a number of threads that discuss it in detail.

Will Samsung enable two-way firewire that will allow use of the Mitsubishi DVHS? Some RCA and Sony displays with IEEE 1394 do not.

Bill, I think we have another question to add.

Martin

Originally posted by UCSB
Administrator ... I sure hope that Steve P. will answer your email and clarify the status of the 50" and 70" 78 series!!! With that data, I would feel pretty good about the detailed profile that we have developed on these new Samsungs.
I e-mailed Steve Panosian about this...

============== Here's what I said: ==============

Steve,

I noticed there was a 50" and a 70" HLRxx78W on display at CES this year. Are both of these planned to be in the 78 Series lineup, or were they just for the show?

If you could reply and let me know I would really appreciate it.

Thanks.

============== Steve replied with: ==============

we plan to have 4 models in the 78 series. limited distribution to select a/v specialists across the country like Tweeter.

S

============== Then I replied with: ==============

Are these the 4 models you plan to have:
HLR7078W
HLR6178W
HLR5678W
HLR5078W

============== Then Steve replied with: ==============

The information we share at ICES is for our dealer planning. We in fact have many more modes planned. If they don't want to buy the product, it doesn't launch. Why do you need this information in such detail?

I can help you find what you are looking for, but I am reluctant to confirm information ahead of our dealer planning conclusions.

What I can tell you is we're going to lauch 720p and 1080p across many different screen sizes.

Steve

============== Then I replied with: ==============

Steve,

Thank you for the reply. I completely understand that you're reluctant to confirm information ahead of time and I respect that. I also understand that all information about future models is subject to change.

I guess I was just curious if you think Samsung will be launching a 50" or a 46" 1080p model this year? If so, I will wait to buy. If you can confirm one of those sizes, great. If not, I understand.

Thank you for your time, Steve. I really do appreciate it!

============== Then Steve replied with: ==============

the plan definitely is 56 and above. We are also planning the 50 inch in the models you saw, but again, if the dealers say "that's nice" BUT, $4000 is too expensive, then the model dies.

Will this happen, don't think so. Question is how big is the market for 1080p 50" dlp when a 720p model by the promotional brands is going to be pushed down towards $1999. That would make the 1080p double the price.

Steve

============== Then I replied with: ==============

I see what you mean... I think if there is a noticeable difference in picture quality (and maybe other valued features in the 50" 1080p model like 2 HDMI, 2 IEEE 1394, and whatever else might be different), many people will pay the extra money for the 1080p.

I guess we'll see!

Thanks again for your time with me!

============== Then Steve replied with: ==============

as long as "many people" translates to the factory minimum quanitity. Don't get me wrong, Samsung's got a good thing going to 10,000 plus units shouldn't be a problem. But upstarts want in and have no limits because they're investing to get in the bz. I got 14 models that MUST produce. Or, I have to cut models.

S

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

So...............If you guys want a 50" 1080p model, make some noise so that the dealers hear you! ;)

Administrator, great information! I know all of us appreciate your sharing your communications with Steve.

Administrator, thanks. Well the info doesn't get any better than that. Also, thank you Steve P. (wherever you are) for your patience and support of the Samsung enthusiasts here on avsForum.

I've just read quickly read through this thread. Lots of great information here. Thanks to all.
One thing I don't understand. Why is it assumed that 1080p will not be supported through the HDMI interface? 1920x1080p @ 59.94/60Hz is a valid timing mode according to HDMI spec.
Is there another roadblock here preventing 1080p over HDMI??

I'd like to know if the any of the 2005 Samsung DLP will be using the Dual-Pane screen that's been causing much of the screen smudging issues talked about in this forum. Samsung seems to be acknowledging the problem and replacing with the single pane screen.

I've updated the top of the thread to indicate that the 50" and 70" 78 series are tentative at this this point. I am not going to add the comment that they are planning four models in the 78 series. I feel that we are early in the process and we should respect their planning process ... and like Steve said, the show is used to educate the Dealers so they can work with Samsung and plan the models.

I have also closed the two open issues related to the 78 series: 1) the 50" and 70" question; and 2) the 78 series MSRP question. It is clear that the MSRP question will have to wait until later ... maybe closer to launch.

Originally posted by Jamers
I'd like to know if the any of the 2005 Samsung DLP will be using the Dual-Pane screen that's been causing much of the screen smudging issues talked about in this forum. Samsung seems to be acknowledging the problem and replacing with the single pane screen.

The first opportunity that we will have to take a look at screen performance will be next month when Samsung releases the new pedestal models. I've been thinking of starting a list of issues that make more sense to discuss after the new models are out. The list could have items like screen performance, lip sync, gaming performance, final PQ, etc. Issues that we can't really evaluate early.

UCSB, your idea of dividing up the list is a good one.

I also came across this picture today, that I haven't seen before: 1080P info (Samsung) (http://www.pbase.com/jsjames/image/38400049) Note the Dynamic Black System/Projection Lens Aperture Stop item. At least a bit more info on that item. Also the .87" chip size corresponds, I believe, with the xHD3 chip size that has been talked about before.

The picture taker is an AVSForum member who apparently has the pictures linked somewhere on this site.

Originally posted by schaffer970
UCSB, your idea of dividing up the list is a good one.

I also came across this picture today, that I haven't seen before: 1080P info (Samsung) (http://www.pbase.com/jsjames/image/38400049) Note the Dynamic Black System/Projection Lens Aperture Stop item. At least a bit more info on that item. Also the .87" chip size corresponds, I believe, with the xHD3 chip size that has been talked about before.

The picture taker is an AVSForum member who apparently has the pictures linked somewhere on this site.

Interesting. We haven't heard too much about the Dynamic Black mentioned in the poster.

He also has many more CES pictures in his album ... click on the links at the top of the page.

Originally posted by SK8_MD
Why is it assumed that 1080p will not be supported through the HDMI interface?
Because Sony has made it clear that their $13,000 set will not support it and no other manufacturer has announced that they will either.

What HDMI is capable of doesn't seem to be part of the equation.

Originally posted by SK8_MD
I've just read quickly read through this thread. Lots of great information here. Thanks to all.
One thing I don't understand. Why is it assumed that 1080p will not be supported through the HDMI interface? 1920x1080p @ 59.94/60Hz is a valid timing mode according to HDMI spec.
Is there another roadblock here preventing 1080p over HDMI?? The Samsung representatives at CES said that the HDMI input wouldn't accept 1080p. Also there is no roadblock but as far as I know no manufacturer has yet to make HDMI chips that can process 1080p. Most likely because none of the CE manufacturers decided to spend the extra money for 1080p HDMI chips.

Thanks HT & RP,
I guess it takes a while for it to sink in. Sorry, I'm slow.

So.... Sony and Samsung are making 1080p displays, with an interface capable of passing data at the rate required, and they decide that 1080i should be the limit. That's almost as bad as making a 720p display that only accepts 480p/1080i !!

If this decision is motivated by cost then it's extremely short-sighted.

Administrator, well done! Thanks for posting that correspondence.

I hope Steve P. likes what we are doing--last thing I'd want is to anger Samsung.

Here's a bonus pic of the 6168.

One more--hope you don't mind.

TetsujinWave, for those who might not want to see any more pictures, just don't click on the link. For the rest of us, I don't think there can possibly be too many.

I was just thinking, maybe I can print one of your pictures life size, hang it on the wall and stare at it until the real thing shows up :) Thanks for the pictures and if you find any more please do not hesitate to post them.

Originally posted by SK8_MD
So.... Sony and Samsung are making 1080p displays, with an interface capable of passing data at the rate required, and they decide that 1080i should be the limit. That's almost as bad as making a 720p display that only accepts 480p/1080i !!
Those who know claim that 1080i de-interlaced to 1080p is the exact equivalent of 1080p for us humans to look at. The manufacturers probably don't see 1080p source as a generator of demand for the sets.

What RCA did, at least theoretically, degraded the signal. Of course hardly any of their customers complained.

Hey,

If you all could visit this thread I started and post a thought or two, I'd really appreciate it.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4993405#post4993405

Originally posted by Administrator
Hey,

If you all could visit this thread I started and post a thought or two, I'd really appreciate it.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4993405#post4993405

Administrator ... new thread is interesting idea ... but, now you will have to change your title from 'lurking member' to 'senior member'. ;)

I've made a few updates to the top of the thread to reflect some of our recent discussions.

First, I've closed the the open item on 1080p picture quality. It's not that we don't want more impressions on this ... we do! So if anyone that went to the show would like to share their impressions we still want to hear about 1080p! It is just that we won't be able to really evaluate this until the real production HDTV's are out. It sort of makes you think ... how do they have products to show that aren't going to be released for five or six more months ... magic I guess.

Second, I've closed the open item on the DLP chips used in these new sets. Again, it is not because we don't want to hear more about this ... so if we have any lurking Samsung or TI employees out there ... spill your guts! But, we have heard from people attending the show, dealers, and Samsung exec's that no one is talking. So I can accept this for now and move on. I'm sure it will all come out with time.

I THINK WE CAN ALL TAKE A DEEP BREATH ... the picture of the 2005's that has emerged from our interaction in this thread has been nothing short of amazing! Thanks to all ... now we can all start planning our purchases for later in the year! :D

The list of open issues is looking good and I have included a copy below. We are still looking for help ... so if you have any insights, please share them. Some of the questions people posed in our discussion, could NOT be answered with the dealer oriented information distributed at CES ... in fact, these types of questions really require final production HDTV's. So I have created a new section to keep track of the items that we will want to test when these TV's are available. I've also included it below.


===================

What we DON’T KNOW so far:

1. What are the DEPTH measurements, dimensions, and weight on the new series 68/78 models by model number? Even a couple of reference points would allow us to see the trend.

2. What is the contrast ratio spec’s for the HLR5087W 720p pedestal model? If they had one on display, did anyone notice if the pixel pattern was HD2+ or newer HD4 pattern?

3. What computer resolutions are supported on the 68, 78, and 88 series sets (1920x1080?)? How would this work through the HDMI connection (via DVI - HDMI cable?) Specifically, does it support 1920x1080. Since we have confirmed that the 68, 78, and 88 will have VGA/PC input, what resolutions will be supported via this input?

4. What, if any, are the speaker and audio (power output, sound processing) differences between the 68 and 78 series?

5. Is the CableCard tuner a dual tuner model? Is it capable of PIP? Is the CableCard Tuner a second generation model capable of two way communications to support services like VOD (video on demand)?



Items We Would Like To Test, But Need To Wait Until HDTV's Are Released:

1. Do the remote control IR discrete codes work for ALL inputs?

2. Given the increased video processing demands of 1080p, what is the capability of the 68/78/88 series 1080p sets to handle computer/video gaming? Specifically, what is lag?

3. Given the increased video processing required in the 1080p units 68, 78, 88 Series), what steps has Samsung taken to insure that we don't see lip sync issues? Did anyone ask specifically about this concern?

4. Some HLP owners have reported smudge problems on two layer viewing screens, has this problem been resolved with the screen material and designs being used on the 2005 models?

Originally posted by schaffer970
I also came across this picture today, that I haven't seen before: 1080P info (Samsung) (http://www.pbase.com/jsjames/image/38400049) Note the Dynamic Black System/Projection Lens Aperture Stop item.

Anyone that can explain what is going on with 'Dynamic Black System' gets to go to the head of the class! I'm afraid we will all have to go and get engineering degrees if I add this to our list of open issues. But, I for one, would like to know.

Does anyone know if "wobulation" associated with the HD3 sets will be a problem with these new 2005 models, particularly the 1080p models in the 68 and 78 series.

Time to start saving for HDTV #2 :(

Still working on HDTV #1......................:mad:

Originally posted by uzun
Does anyone know if "wobulation" associated with the HD3 sets will be a problem with these new 2005 models, particularly the 1080p models in the 68 and 78 series.
The TI 1080p chip uses "wobulation". What problem are you refering to?

What I really like is that these new 2005 models seem to have ironed out a lot of the kinks that even HLP owners were complaining about... and also re-assuring my buying decision with regards to a Samsung DLP.

Damnit I hate waiting, I want the money, and my new TV! I also really want to know pricing... I have an interview monday for a one time $2000 web design contract, I'd *like* to spend all that on DVD's for the new TV, but we'll see how much I make this winter at my normal work, and then how much the TV's cost :)

Everything is tentative...

- D

Unable to wait for the experience of the real thing, I am attempting to simulate the experience of watching this set. I'm trying to convince my wife that the picture won't be so big that it gives her motion sickness (like when she sits too far forward in a movie theater) and that, although it will dominate the room, that won't be a bad thing.

Unfortunately the platform it would sit on will be 4'4" off the ground, so I may have to angle it down slightly. Relocating the center speaker also may pose a challenge.

marcvh, I'm not sure the cardboard is going to improve the WAF (wife acceptance factor). Maybe you could take one of the TV images off this site and cut and paste it into the picture of your room. Make sure that it looks really good before showing it to her. Then give her a few days to get used to the idea. Worth a shot :)

marcvh ... Samsung DLPs have had very good horizontal viewing angles. So if you are off to one side, it was usually a good picture. BUT, they are much more restrictive vertically. To get an optimal picture you can not be to much below the level of the set. You might want to work up a second option with the HDTV on a stand down at room level. Samsung will be selling a companion stand and there are some really beautiful other alternatives.

Perhaps, I should put some prospective viewing angle data for the HLPxx63W's in the specs area ... one of our resident statisticians (htwaits help me here) might be able to give us exact numbers. But, I believe something like 160 degrees horizontally and 15 degrees vertically might be in the ballpark.

Schaffer, tx for the thoughts. I've shown her a few of the CES shots, but unfortunately most of the shots posted here are just shots of the TV. If there's not something else in the shot (e.g. a person) to give a sense of scale, then a picture of a 100" TV and a 10" TV look pretty much the same to her.

I understand about the vertical viewing angles, and will need to check out how exactly it behaves in that respect. I'm guessing I'll need to angle it down slightly. When I first heard about the "floating screen" design I was hoping that meant it had an adjustable tilt, but of course they just meant a visual effect.

Actually I think her main concern is the existing 32" tube TV, what we do with it and whether I'm expecting her to help move it.

By the way, this thread is an incredible resource, and huge thanks to ucsb et al for putting it together.

Dag, can't wait to finally own an HDTV.

My mind is mad eup to go with Samsung & their new 2005 models. I'm leaning towards the Floating Screen 56 or 61 DLp.

I'm confused on one thing, in the video from CES (link posted in 1st post of this thread) the guy is reading of specs/info on the 67 inch set (68 model) & states it will not have a cablecard only built in cable tuner, but the specs posted in this thread state it will have both.

Was he misinformed? & the prices he stated is different from the suggested price listed here. He stated starting price of $7,0o0! :eek:

Originally posted by TMSKILZ
Dag, can't wait to finally own an HDTV.

My mind is mad eup to go with Samsung & their new 2005 models. I'm leaning towards the Floating Screen 56 or 61 DLp.

I'm confused on one thing, in the video from CES (link posted in 1st post of this thread) the guy is reading of specs/info on the 67 inch set (68 model) & states it will not have a cablecard only built in cable tuner, but the specs posted in this thread state it will have both.

Was he misinformed? & the prices he stated is different from the suggested price listed here. He stated starting price of $7,0o0! :eek:

Sorry ... maybe I should remove the video because he (C/Net) is wrong. What does everyone think ... kill the video? I just put it in because it gave people an idea of how large the screen was with someone in front of it. We've confirmed the pricing in our specs ... but realize this is all preliminary information!

Maybe I can just update the link indicating the price and cablecard info is bad. DONE ... LINK is Updated.

OK--now there's grape juice all over my monitor...
You could do what I do--bring your wife to the show. This year they had a "Technology is a Girl's Best Friend" theme at CES, with gadgets llike a lipstick-shaped video camera.

No, I don't have a picture of it.

How about another picture of the 7078? I broke in a new 1 GB sd card at the show.

6168 bonus picture.

Thanks TetsujinWave ... these photos that are more directly straight ahead of the TV may be useful for people trying to do room planning mock-ups. I'll add the photos to our list at the top.

Originally posted by UCSB
Anyone that can explain what is going on with 'Dynamic Black System' gets to go to the head of the class! I'm afraid we will all have to go and get engineering degrees if I add this to our list of open issues. But, I for one, would like to know.

Others are talking about this [apologies, I'm not allowed to post URLs; add www]:
avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=471797&highlight=DynamicBlack

Check out page 5 of this brochure:
panasonic.ca/English/Broadcast/presentation/projector/pdf/PT-DW7000U-K.pdf

and compare to your pic:
pbase.com/jsjames/image/38400049

I guess they decided there were not enough moving parts yet.
First mirrors and color wheels, then lenses and now apertures.

fun.

no 1080p input? Looks like I'll be looking forward to CES 2006 instead.

Hmmm....

I think this is a marketing ploy doomed to failure. We all want to know which generation DMD device is in a DLP TV. It's sort of suspicious as to why they suddenly don't want to name these things. I'm sure TI has a name for them - imagine the confusion it would create with all the engineers et. al. if they couldn't call what they were working on anything. "You got the thingy ready?" Which thingy?" " You know.... THE THINGY" "Ooooh.... THAT thingy". You mean the thingy that gives the 10:000 : 1 contrast ratio?"

I think they want to push the 10:000 : 1 (or 5,000 : 1 depending on who you talk to) spec now. Of course any salesperson worth his weight will tell you which thingy is in the TV anyways. Don't really have to hear it from Steve Panosian. I'd assume you can just go by date of manufacture right on the chip - or is TI lobbying the government to have that removed as well? What chip do you use? I use the "Feb 2005 chip". Awesome!

satirev ... welcome to avsForum and thanks for the links. The panasonic brochure was a good find. I'll add add a short description of Dynamic Black System to our FAQ's on the next update to the top of the thread.

In the pictures of the xx78 sets, I think the shiny black border looks pretty tacky; the 'floaging screen' of the xx68's looks much neater. I am sorry that it looks like the 70"-er will only be in the xx78 format.

Can anyone who actually saw the xx68's and xx78's at the CES comment on the shiny black border; does it look better 'in the flesh' that it does in these pictures?

Originally posted by TetsujinWave
OK--now there's grape juice all over my monitor...
You could do what I do--bring your wife to the show. This year they had a "Technology is a Girl's Best Friend" theme at CES, with gadgets llike a lipstick-shaped video camera.

No, I don't have a picture of it.

How about another picture of the 7078? I broke in a new 1 GB sd card at the show.

Thanks for the pics.

A word of advice. It looks like you are using Microsoft Photo Viewer (or whatever it is called) to do your downrezing which is causing aliasing in your pics. If you don't have anything else Paint actually does a fairly good job when you resize the entire image using the stretch function.

-Mr. Wigggles

Photoshop does some nice PNG resizing.

Yeah the pics are very pixelated :\

- D

Originally posted by Daphoid
Photoshop does some nice PNG resizing.

Yeah the pics are very pixelated :\

- D

D ... if you can be more specific, I will try and fix the photos. Which photos are the worse offenders? I've been trying to clean-up the layout in the initial post ... did I damage something?

I don't know if we have picked up anyone new that attended CES 2005, but here are our open issues / questions? Still looking for answers.

=========================

What we DON’T KNOW so far:

1. What are the DEPTH measurements, dimensions, and weight on the new series 68/78 models by model number? Even a couple of reference points would allow us to see the trend.

2. What is the contrast ratio spec’s for the HLR5087W 720p pedestal model? If they had one on display, did anyone notice if the pixel pattern was HD2+ or newer HD4 pattern?

3. What computer resolutions are supported on the 68, 78, and 88 series sets (1920x1080?)? How would this work through the HDMI connection (via DVI - HDMI cable?) Specifically, does it support 1920x1080. Since we have confirmed that the 68, 78, and 88 will have VGA/PC input, what resolutions will be supported via this input?

4. What, if any, are the speaker and audio (power output, sound processing) differences between the 68 and 78 series?

5. Is the CableCard tuner a dual tuner model? Is it capable of PIP? Is the CableCard Tuner a second generation model capable of two way communications to support services like VOD (video on demand)?

Originally posted by millerwill
In the pictures of the xx78 sets, I think the shiny black border looks pretty tacky; the 'floaging screen' of the xx68's looks much neater. I am sorry that it looks like the 70"-er will only be in the xx78 format.

Can anyone who actually saw the xx68's and xx78's at the CES comment on the shiny black border; does it look better 'in the flesh' that it does in these pictures?

Does anyone who was at the CES have any comments about the esthetics of the xx78 sets versus the xx68 ones?

millerwill...I did attend CES with the specific intent of seeing in person the cosmetics of these units. I was disappointed with the black gloss border on the xx78 series. It did look cheap. I didn't mind the look of the xx68 so I will probably go for one of those, unless I jump over to SONY who in my opinion designs the best looking rptv's on the market.

I personally thought the 68 series looked better, but they really don't look all that different from each other or the older Samsung DLP's. If the features were the same, I'd choose the 68 series cabinet.

giffy, TetsujinWave: Thanks very much for your comments--they jive very much with what I could make out from the many pictures from the CES (many thanks to all for posting these!!). I agree that the shiny black border on the xx78's does look cheap. Too bad that the 70"-er is (presumably) only going to be available in that model.

I currently have a hlp6163 (which is a 'loaner' until the 1080p's come out) and like its cosmetics very much (particularly with the stabilizing base removed). From what I can make out from the pictures from CES, the HLRxx68's look very much like the present HLPxx63's, just with a gap between the silver speaker sections and the lower black bezel. Again, I really wish that Samsung would do the 70"-er in the xx68 format

46" -- HLR4667W (April 2005, $2,699)

OK, from what I can tell the HLR4667W is every bit as good as the HLP4674W, if not better. I'd say the only think the HLP4674W really has going for it is the thin bezel and the HD2+ chip. But if the HLR4667W can achieve the same 2000:1 contrast ration using the newer HDx chip then maybe it will be just as sharp too? I'm on the fence here because I was about to pulled the trigger on the HLP4674W in March. Knowing the 2005's will be out in April and have the same contrast, integrated ATSC tuner, 7 segment color wheel, a cool floating screen design and all for less money, now I'm in limbo. Reading on this forum about the screen smudging on the HLP4674W is turning me off. Not to mention it would be really nice to watch some HD TV OTA w/ the ATSC tuner without immediately having to pay DISH network to view HD channels. Of course I wouldn't get as many HD channels but still some.

Would I need a special antenna to receive the HD OTA broadcasts?

Anyway, someone please tell me why I should go ahead and buy the HLP4674W for $2999 when I could wait 1 month more and get the HLR4667W for $300 less. Granted the HLP may drop in price by then too. And yes I know the 2000:1 contrast on the HLRXX67W isn't confirmed yet but I'd find it hard to believe Samsung would be taking a step backward with several current models achieving 2000 and 2500.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by millerwill which is a 'loaner' what do you mean a loaner is it from Samsung?
I have had 2 HLP6163's each one has been repaired 3 times...now Samsung gave me a choice another new replacement (3rd one) or a refund...I wish they would let me keep this last one until the new ones came out...I am really interested in the 61-67" 1080p units... hopefully being released in June.

I'll try resizing with Paint a little later. I still have quite a few I can post.

jwv651: The 'loaner' arrangement of a hlp6163 until the 1080p sets arrived is a deal worked out with my local B&M dealer. I told him that what I really wanted was one of the upcoming 1080ps sets, but would very much like to buy a hlp6163 right now if he would allow me to return it for credit toward the more expensive set. Much to my surprise, he agreed! So you might as well ask--all he can do is say 'no', and he might even say 'yes'!

Originally posted by TetsujinWave
I'll try resizing with Paint a little later. I still have quite a few I can post.

If you have any shots that were taken directly in front of the HDTV's, they would be helpful for people trying to insert them into photos of their rooms.

If Paint doesn't work well, I have Photoshop and can help resize them.

I've created three photos of what my installation would look like with the new HLR's. I am looking at th 50" 78 series, 56" 78 series, and 56" 68 series. The 50" is a no brainer (if they build it), it will fit perfectly and look great. The two 56" models are going to be a tight fit. I know they can be used, but I will really need to see the final case configuration before I can decide if the aesthetic trade-offs are worth it.

Attached is a baseline photo of my current HLN467W on the cabinet for perspective.

Here is the 50" 78 series.

Here is the 56" 78 series.

Here is the 56" 68 series.

I will be absolutely shocked if they come out with these sets by April. I think we're looking more at summer time. The 4674W was supposed to be out last May/June but didn't hit the stores until November. So...it depends on how long you can wait.

For me, I need the small frame, and since it doesn't look like they will be making any more Tantus-like models, I have to get the 4674W in order to fit it in the space I have. If I didn't have space limitations I would probably just wait. Oh well...

Originally posted by Jamers
46" -- HLR4667W (April 2005, $2,699)

OK, from what I can tell the HLR4667W is every bit as good as the HLP4674W, if not better. I'd say the only think the HLP4674W really has going for it is the thin bezel and the HD2+ chip. But if the HLR4667W can achieve the same 2000:1 contrast ration using the newer HDx chip then maybe it will be just as sharp too? I'm on the fence here because I was about to pulled the trigger on the HLP4674W in March. Knowing the 2005's will be out in April and have the same contrast, integrated ATSC tuner, 7 segment color wheel, a cool floating screen design and all for less money, now I'm in limbo. Reading on this forum about the screen smudging on the HLP4674W is turning me off. Not to mention it would be really nice to watch some HD TV OTA w/ the ATSC tuner without immediately having to pay DISH network to view HD channels. Of course I wouldn't get as many HD channels but still some.

Would I need a special antenna to receive the HD OTA broadcasts?

Anyway, someone please tell me why I should go ahead and buy the HLP4674W for $2999 when I could wait 1 month more and get the HLR4667W for $300 less. Granted the HLP may drop in price by then too. And yes I know the 2000:1 contrast on the HLRXX67W isn't confirmed yet but I'd find it hard to believe Samsung would be taking a step backward with several current models achieving 2000 and 2500.

Samsung has my permission to build a 52" in the 78 series line. It may be a good compromise for them, given their concerns about the 50" and it would work in my setup.

See if this looks any better.

The 7078 picture resized again.

One more.

Much better, thanks!

Here's a picture from CES of a "Captain Kirk" model... (Don't know if it's new though.)

http://www.pbase.com/jsjames/image/38440295/original

Originally posted by Administrator
Here's a picture from CES of a "Captain Kirk" model... (Don't know if it's new though.)

My best guess at reading the model number from the description card is that this is a HT-D51100. :D

It's too bad their isn't a picture of the card.

Originally posted by htwaits
My best guess at reading the model number from the description card is that this is a HT-D51100. :D

I think this is a display for the home-theater-in-a-box system and the card is for the speakers and receiver, etc. The speaker grills look new to me on this unit so I think it is a HLR. It looks like the 50" model??? Thanks, administrator I'll add it to the top of the thread.

I think the shiny black border looks pretty tacky; the 'floating screen' of the xx68's looks much neater.The 'black lacquer' is a take off from the Pioneer Elite series of high end (if you couldn't guess by the name) equipment, a better choice that the Phony chinsy silver though a less gloss finish would be less distracting.I think this is a marketing ploy doomed to failure. We all want to know which generation DMD device is in a DLP TV. It's sort of suspicious as to why they suddenly don't want to name these things.Maybe, but I would rather say it is to avoid confusion in the mass market when Joe Average (that never programed his VCR) comes in and wants a new TV. The chip naming structure is fine for us, but we are a minority.

Originally posted by UCSB
The speaker grills look new to me on this unit so I think it is a HLR.
Bill,

Good call on the speaker grills! You're right, they are different. I guess it's safe to say this is an HLR.

50 inch? 56 inch? Can we use something in the pic and measure some how? :D

I have a question for those that attended CES and looked at the 68 and 78 series cabinets up close. It appears from the photo below that the BACK of the cabinet is indented about an inch or so straight in on each side and then goes to a tappered angle.

PHOTO (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4966499&fullpage=1)

Did anyone measure the indent? Did anyone measure the angle of the taper? Given my cabinet, it would be great to know that I have an extra 2" - 3" of clearance on the back portion of the cabinet. The angle of taper on the back in the photo seems pretty large ... did anyone notice that?

I'm afraid I don't have the answers to your questions, but I can give you a cleaner version of that picture.

Originally posted by TetsujinWave
I'm afraid I don't have the answers to your questions, but I can give you a cleaner version of that picture.

Thanks ... it is clearer ... I'll swap out the one in the top of the thread.

I think most Samsung DLPs have the power button in the bottom center of the speaker grill. This was not very appealing to me since I knew my boys would be tempted to push it regularly. Anyway, I finally saw the HLP4674W in a store and it turns out that the power button is now on the right lower side of the display. Now it's not in harms way. The circle was still there in the center of the speaker grill but it was only a power on indicator light.

Does anyone know if the 2005 models are designed this same way with the power button off to the side? Specifically, the HLR series.

Originally posted by Jamers
I think most Samsung DLPs have the power button in the bottom center of the speaker grill. This was not very appealing to me since I knew my boys would be tempted to push it regularly. Anyway, I finally saw the HLP4674W in a store and it turns out that the power button is now on the right lower side of the display. Now it's not in harms way. The circle was still there in the center of the speaker grill but it was only a power on indicator light.

Does anyone know if the 2005 models are designed this same way with the power button off to the side? Specifically, the HLR series.
The HLM and HLN series had the power button off to the side. Then with the 2004 HLP's they moved it to the center with the status lights.

The only HLP models that didn't make this change was the 74 Series. This is because the 74 Series uses the old 2003 HLN thin "Tatnus" case. For that reason, the power button is still on the side of the set.

If I had to guess, I would say all the new HLR's will follow the newer HLP design and have the power button in the center with the status lights... :(

Originally posted by xymox9
I will be absolutely shocked if they come out with these sets by April. I think we're looking more at summer time. The 4674W was supposed to be out last May/June but didn't hit the stores until November. So...it depends on how long you can wait.



Samsung is under quite a bit more pressure to meet their dates this time around. By July 1st, their entire HLP product line will have to be retired by mandate from the FCC. The FCC requires all TV's with screens >36" (I think I have the size right) to have ATSC tuners (either integrated or via an included STB) by that date. None of the current crop of HLPs do.

Their choices are have the HLRs ready, role out HLPs with tuners, or simply not have a DLP product to sell. So I have a feeling, at least this time around, we will be seeing them released somewhat close to on time, or at the very latest by the July 1st date.

First off, great thread!!! In regards to the 4674 vs waiting for the 5078 (if they even make it according to Steve P.), I would probably go with the 4674. My reasons are as follows. First off, many people say that the difference between 720P and 1080P at that size is not that noticable from 8+ feet away. Second, by the time the 5078 is available it sounds like the 4674 could be between $2000 to $2500. Personally, I think I'd rather spend that then $4000 on something that you wouldn't really be able to tell the difference on. Am I wrong here??? Did I miss something while I was reading this post... it was pretty long so I was speed reading a bit. Don't get me wrong, it'd be nice to have 1080p but I don't want to pay for technology that I'm not going to be able to tell the difference on. For others considering the same thing... what's your opinion???

My opinion is that having an opinion before you see a hypothetical set is not a good idea. :)

10sne1: For 1080p to be noticeable, one needs to be viewing at about 1.5 x screen diagonal. Therefore for a 46" screen, 1.5x46" = 69", i.e., 5 3/4 ft. You thus need to be viewing your 46" set at no more than ~ 6 ft for 1080p to be worthwhile.

Originally posted by millerwill
10sne1: For 1080p to be noticeable, one needs to be viewing at about 1.5 x screen diagonal. Therefore for a 46" screen, 1.5x46" = 69", i.e., 5 3/4 ft. You thus need to be viewing your 46" set at no more than ~ 6 ft for 1080p to be worthwhile.
Does that mean I can tell my wife that we have to get a 61" 1080p TV and then move from 10' to < 8' in order to get our money's worth? :D

Or that if I talk her into a 56" 1080p and we sit at our current 10' she is going to think I'm crazy? :D

On the other hand a 70" set might be nice at about 9'.

I know I've managed to talk my wife into at least the 61". It helps that my wife and my parents were there at CES soaking up all that tech.

While Dad and I watched that TI demo, culminating with the Episode III trailer, we knew we had some sweet talking to do. ;)

This page (from Japan) talks about Smooth Picture (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20050110/dg45.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20050110/dg45.htm%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG). There are some interesting pictures of how wobulation works and closeup pictures of 1080 pixel resolution. They talk about "honeycomb", this may be referring to the diamond shape pattern. It would be great if there is someone who knows Japanese that could translate this for us, as my knowledge is nonexistent.

Finally, there are also some pictures of the new Samsung sets.

Originally posted by htwaits
On the other hand a 70" set might be nice at about 9'.

Yes, at 9ft the 70"er would be very nice.

Originally posted by htwaits
On the other hand a 70" set might be nice at about 9'.

:D :D :D

Originally posted by 10sne1
First off, great thread!!! In regards to the 4674 vs waiting for the 5078 (if they even make it according to Steve P.), I would probably go with the 4674. My reasons are as follows. First off, many people say that the difference between 720P and 1080P at that size is not that noticable from 8+ feet away. Second, by the time the 5078 is available it sounds like the 4674 could be between $2000 to $2500. Personally, I think I'd rather spend that then $4000 on something that you wouldn't really be able to tell the difference on. Am I wrong here??? Did I miss something while I was reading this post... it was pretty long so I was speed reading a bit. Don't get me wrong, it'd be nice to have 1080p but I don't want to pay for technology that I'm not going to be able to tell the difference on. For others considering the same thing... what's your opinion???

Although i agree that 1080 vs 720 is up to the individual's eyes, and the price point doesn't really justify the minimal gain in resolution, another aspect to consider is the 10,000 contrast ratio. I saw it with my own eyes at CES, and it was enough for me to justify putting off buying hte 5685 kirk for the 5668/5678 models when they come out.

Originally posted by ODL
... another aspect to consider is the 10,000 contrast ratio.
I agree even if it's really 5000:1 using calculations more common to products sold in the U.S. :)

My opinion is that having an opinion before you see a hypothetical set is not a good idea.But can you have a opinion after you see a non hypothetical set that is only a pre production model, that will probably change a half a dozen times depending on what everyone else is coming out with considering the fact they will change their sets based on the same reasoning to keep up with the Jones? :D

BTW, for those who sat through the Sammy thread of last year: remember ALL the changes that were made and all the things that DIDN'T happen and dates that wen't met??:mad:

Thanks for the replies. All good points. Millerwill, I'll be sitting about 8 feet away so by your calc there wouldn't be a noticable difference. However, the contrast ratio is also a good point. I plan on waiting until this summer anyway and hopefully the 5078 will be out and I can compare myself. In addition, if I wait until it's out it will put further price pressure on the 4674... that's if there are any left.

Originally posted by 10sne1
I plan on waiting until this summer anyway and hopefully the 5078 will be out and I can compare myself. In addition, if I wait until it's out it will put further price pressure on the 4674... that's if there are any left.
I asked Steve Panosian about this...

===== I asked:

"Can you give me an idea of how long the HLP4674W will be selling for? I mean, will it be discontinued soon, or will it sell until the new HLRxx78W series comes out?"

===== He replied:

through about March or April.

78 series ships in June

S

----------------------------------------------

So it sounds like Samsung will be discontinuing them right before the 67 Series comes out...

Originally posted by TxSooner
Samsung is under quite a bit more pressure to meet their dates this time around. By July 1st, their entire HLP product line will have to be retired by mandate from the FCC. The FCC requires all TV's with screens >36" (I think I have the size right) to have ATSC tuners (either integrated or via an included STB) by that date. None of the current crop of HLPs do.

Their choices are have the HLRs ready, role out HLPs with tuners, or simply not have a DLP product to sell. So I have a feeling, at least this time around, we will be seeing them released somewhat close to on time, or at the very latest by the July 1st date.
I agree with TxSooner. I think Samsung will meet or come very close to meeting their release dates this year because of the FCC mandate.

74s discontinued in March or April? Looks like the perfect time to buy for me! I hope they show up at Costco like most of Samsung's discountinued DLPs have.

March or April... well that's good information to know. Looks like I'll have to make a decision before seeing the new model. So what would most people here do? Get the 4674 while you can or wait for the 5078 and pay anywhere from $1000 to $2000 more for it???

I have also been on the verge of buying a 46", and I thought I was set on the HLP4674. Now, with the new sets, I am not so sure. And, I don't necessarily mind waiting for the HLR.

BUT..... what it will ultimately boil down to, for me, is the picture quality of this new 'HD4' chip vs. the HD2+ chip. I definitely like the look of the HD2+ over the HD3. Is there ANY way of telling what we might expect in terms of picture quality/clarity/sharpness out of this new HD4 chip?

I think, right now, that my gut is telling me to get the 4674 while I can.

Isn't Blu-ray rumored to have 1080p output via HDMI when it's launched? It'd be a shame to have that but nothing capable of showing it. I wonder if they'll update the technology before or soon after launch

Are there any inexpensive dispays that can handle a 1080p input?

Originally posted by 10sne1
So what would most people here do? Get the 4674 while you can or wait for the 5078 and pay anywhere from $1000 to $2000 more for it???
You could try to make a deal with whomever you buy from that you'll buy the 4674 now (or in March or April) if you can have the option to upgrade to the 5078 with no restocking fee when it comes out. Others on this forum have been successful in making deals like this at their local stores...

I think you'd have the best chances of making a deal like this at a store where the sales people make commission...

Originally posted by MCanfield
I definitely like the look of the HD2+ over the HD3. Is there ANY way of telling what we might expect in terms of picture quality/clarity/sharpness out of this new HD4 chip?
I think the HD4 (if that's what they're really going to be using) is an upgrade to the HD3 and will have a smoother picture like the HD3.

If you don't need the integrated tuner/cablecard, and you like the sharper look of the HD2+ you may want to buy a 74 Series while you can...

camaj, from what I have seen it is unlikely any of the HD formats (HDDVD or Blu-ray) will go to 1080p anytime soon. There are a number of reasons for this including what HD cameras will currently record. I am no expert on this and would love to have someone who understands the process of putting things on the HDTV screen explain it.

Originally posted by htwaits
Those who know claim that 1080i de-interlaced to 1080p is the exact equivalent of 1080p for us humans to look at. The manufacturers probably don't see 1080p source as a generator of demand for the sets.

What RCA did, at least theoretically, degraded the signal. Of course hardly any of their customers complained.

Is there a thread you can point me to regarding your statement? Are you saying that 1080i de-interlaced is good enough and that we don't need 1080p? Does this statement apply for computer connections? Just trying to figure out whether not having HDMI with 1080p is a big deal, or not...I really don't want to have to wait for the 2006 Sammy's...but I also don't want to spend $5k - $6k on a **D'OH!**

Originally posted by insaneoctane
Is there a thread you can point me to regarding your statement?

Sorry I can't point you to a thread. My comments are based on reading extensively about HLP, HLR and what other companies are doing in this forum. You could try the search function or start a new thread with a well crafted subject field.

Are you saying that 1080i de-interlaced is good enough and that we don't need 1080p?

That's the impression I've gotten. There also doesn't seem to be any 1080p source material in the foreseeable future to motivate the manufacturers to build 1080p input capability into their sets.

The argument I was referring too maintained that a 1080i signal de-interlaced correctly (which isn't supposed to be hard to do) would be indistinguishable from a 1080p source.

Does this statement apply for computer connections?

If you have a 1080p computer source, based on the above theory, it could be converted to 1080i for input and back to 1080p for display. That sounds awful to me but it's supposed to be an error free process.

I don't think anyone is building these 1080p RPTV displays with computer requirements high on their list.

Just trying to figure out whether not having HDMI with 1080p is a big deal

I haven't read about a new 1080p RPTV that doesn't have at least one HDMI port. I don't think the port itself is the bottleneck.

...I really don't want to have to wait for the 2006 Sammy's...but I also don't want to spend $5k - $6k on a **D'OH!**

Do you know that anyone will provide 1080p input capability by 2006 -- or 200x? :)

Originally posted by htwaits
The argument I was referring too maintained that a 1080i signal de-interlaced correctly (which isn't supposed to be hard to do) would be indistinguishable from a 1080p source.

Probably a stupid question, but A) "Should" the new Samsung's de-interlace correctly? and B) Are the new Sammy sets upconverting all sources and displaying everying in 1080P?

As long as the deinterlacer works fine all the good video cards (ATI Xxxx and Geforce6) outputs great 1080i over vga/component/dvi.

A. From what I understand, deinterlacing 1080i to 1080p is something that is easily done with on-board scalers.

B. It depends on what you mean by "new." The HLRXX78W and HLRXX68W series will scale everything to 1080p. The HLRXX67W series scales everything to 720p.

Originally posted by MCanfield
I have also been on the verge of buying a 46", and I thought I was set on the HLP4674. Now, with the new sets, I am not so sure. And, I don't necessarily mind waiting for the HLR.

BUT..... what it will ultimately boil down to, for me, is the picture quality of this new 'HD4' chip vs. the HD2+ chip. I definitely like the look of the HD2+ over the HD3. Is there ANY way of telling what we might expect in terms of picture quality/clarity/sharpness out of this new HD4 chip?

I think, right now, that my gut is telling me to get the 4674 while I can.

I with you all who are on the fence between the HLP 46" and the HLR 46". Don't need the extra tuners but ther HLR has a cooler speaker grill IMO and hopefully doesn't have the smudging screen issue that the HLP does. Do we really know if the price will drop on the HLP in March if it gets discontinued? Sometimes discontinued items sell for more due to supply and demand. And don't forget the HLR 46" is to MSRP at $2699. If the contrast is the same as the HLP4672W then I could care less if it isn't quite as sharp. I just don't want to wait until june to get the set. April would be as long as I could hold out.

Originally posted by TetsujinWave
A. From what I understand, deinterlacing 1080i to 1080p is something that is easily done with on-board scalers.

There is a "bobbed" method that does 540p from 1080i and then scales to 1080p that I understand is not as good as 1080i directly to 1080p. As long as Samsung isn't "bobbing" everything should be fine. Maybe Administrator could hit up Steve Panosian on that issue.

The HLRXX67W series scales everything to 720p.

... because they are native 720p (HD3/4 chip) displays. :)

This is probably premature, but I'm getting excited and want to start making plans for these new 1080p machines!

So--did anyone at the CES by any chance measure the HEIGHT of the STANDS of the xx68 and xx78 models? I am particularly intereseted in the stand height Samsung is recommending for the HLR6768 and 7078. (Of course, if we knew the dimensions of the sets we could figure this out ourselves. For example, is the part of the set below the screen, the speaker grill etc., the same height on the HLR's as it is on the HLP6163?)

I was over at BestBuy today and noticed that a Samsung plasma on display had a case that was cosmetically identical to the new series 78 case. I liked it.

Does anyone remember how long it took Samsung to update their website after last years CES? I have emailed Samsung's PR people and asked when the site would be updated with the 2005 models and got a "look at our press release" response.

Originally posted by UCSB
I was over at BestBuy today and noticed that a Samsung plasma on display had a case that was cosmetically identical to the new series 78 case. I liked it.
UCSB, was this at the BB at the Hacienda?

Originally posted by UCSB
I was over at BestBuy today and noticed that a Samsung plasma on display had a case that was cosmetically identical to the new series 78 case. I liked it.
Interesting. Do you know what the model number was? None of them on the website really look like the 78 Series case.

Originally posted by schaffer970
Does anyone remember how long it took Samsung to update their website after last years CES? I have emailed Samsung's PR people and asked when the site would be updated with the 2005 models and got a "look at our press release" response.
I would assume that means they'll update the website when the sets start to ship...

Originally posted by Administrator
Interesting. Do you know what the model number was? None of them on the website really look like the 78 Series case.

It was actually a 42" lower end model (SPP42xx, sorry can't remember xx portion ... may have been 51 or 61)... priced at about $2700 or so. Black bezel, silver frame, silver perforated speaker grill, Samsung logo, circle in black area ... had it all, matched the detail photos of 78 series.

Originally posted by htwaits
There is a "bobbed" method that does 540p from 1080i and then scales to 1080p that I understand is not as good as 1080i directly to 1080p. As long as Samsung isn't "bobbing" everything should be fine. Maybe Administrator could hit up Steve Panosian on that issue.
Steve has been good to me lately! :D

========= I asked:

"Steve,

I understand the new 1080p sets will not have a 1080p input (which is understandable at this time). But when the set deinterlaces the 1080i signal, does it go directly from 1080i to 1080p, or does it go from 1080i to 540p then to 1080p?

I hope you can help me out with this. If not, maybe you can point me in the right direction?

Thank you."

========= Steve replied with:

to 1080p.

S

Originally posted by CSonntag
UCSB, was this at the BB at the Hacienda?

Yes.

More confirmed information from Steve Panosian! (Thanks Steve!)

========== I asked:

"Steve,

One more question: Regarding the 68 & 78 Series... I understand the 78 Series is for limited distribution to select a/v specialists across the country like Tweeter...

Are the internals of both lines equivalent? Is the case the only difference or are the speakers and audio processing upgraded in the 78 series?

Thanks."

========== Steve replied with:

the same.

Originally posted by Administrator
More confirmed information from Steve Panosian! (Thanks Steve!)

========== I asked:

"Steve,

One more question: Regarding the 68 & 78 Series... I understand the 78 Series is for limited distribution to select a/v specialists across the country like Tweeter...

Are the internals of both lines equivalent? Is the case the only difference or are the speakers and audio processing upgraded in the 78 series?

Thanks."

========== Steve replied with:

the same.

Thanks, I had been wondering about that.

I'll be about 10 ft from the 67" inch, should be awesome.

- D

Originally posted by UCSB
Thanks, I had been wondering about that.
Me too. ;)

Originally posted by Administrator
Steve has been good to me lately! :D

Direct "to 1080p." S.P.

Thanks. Another mystery cleared up.

Now if the "direct" theory is valid there should be some happy 1080p owners this year some time. :)

Admin thanks for the updates meng! :)

If the 78 series is being released in June, then when will the 68 series be released? Anyone know? I assume the 78 will ship 1st before the 68. I'm leaning towards the 68 prefer the floating screen look.

Originally posted by schaffer970
camaj, from what I have seen it is unlikely any of the HD formats (HDDVD or Blu-ray) will go to 1080p anytime soon. There are a number of reasons for this including what HD cameras will currently record. I am no expert on this and would love to have someone who understands the process of putting things on the HDTV screen explain it.

People on the Blu-ray thread seem to think BR will have a 1080p output and IIRC some of the hometheaterforum members went to Sony and saw a BR demo that was 1080p on a highend Sony projector.

I'd have thought some cameras would record 1080p images but even if they didn't it'd be possible to telecine films to 1080p. If it's possible to do it to 1080i then I don't see why 1080p would be harder.

Originally posted by TMSKILZ
If the 78 series is being released in June, then when will the 68 series be released? Anyone know? I assume the 78 will ship 1st before the 68. I'm leaning towards the 68 prefer the floating screen look.
I think they will both ship at the same time. The 78 will go to a/v specialists like Tweeter... The 68 will go to other stores like Best Buy.

The 68 and 78 Series are the same - Only difference is the case.

Our list of open issues continues to shrink! Here is where it stands right now:

What we DON’T KNOW so far:

1. What are the DEPTH measurements, dimensions, and weight on the new series 68/78 models by model number? Even a couple of reference points would allow us to see the trend.

2. What is the contrast ratio spec’s for the HLR5087W 720p pedestal model? If they had one on display, did anyone notice if the pixel pattern was HD2+ or newer HD4 pattern?

3. What computer resolutions are supported on the 68, 78, and 88 series sets (1920x1080?)? How would this work through the HDMI connection (via DVI - HDMI cable?) Specifically, does it support 1920x1080. Since we have confirmed that the 68, 78, and 88 will have VGA/PC input, what resolutions will be supported via this input?

4. Is the CableCard tuner a dual tuner model? Is it capable of PIP? Is the CableCard Tuner a second generation model capable of two way communications to support services like VOD (video on demand)?

Originally posted by htwaits
Do you know that anyone will provide 1080p input capability by 2006 -- or 200x?
I found this link in this forum (different thread): MITSUBISHI 82" DLP (http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/televisions/details.asp?id=94) and it claims in the middle of the page "1080p PC Input". Don't know if it's fact or fiction, but it's on Mitsu's web site. :confused:

If you could, Administrator, ask Steve P. about the extra HDMI input on the 78 series. Is that still planned?

Originally posted by TetsujinWave
If you could, Administrator, ask Steve P. about the extra HDMI input on the 78 series. Is that still planned?

Is it just me, or do the last few responses from Steve make it appear that he's getting tired answering questions?

I don't think there is a problem with 1080p analog input, it is with 1080p digital (DVI/HDMI). I am presuming that PC Input means the "old" vga analog output (D-Sub 15 pin). Samsung has said that they will also include a PC connection on the new sets. Don't confuse digital input versus analog input.

Originally posted by schaffer970
I don't think there is a problem with 1080p analog input, it is with 1080p digital (DVI/HDMI). I am presuming that PC Input means the "old" vga analog output (D-Sub 15 pin). Samsung has said that they will also include a PC connection on the new sets. Don't confuse digital input versus analog input.
Ahhhh, yes...sneaky marketing. That is true, I did forget analog vs digital when I saw that spec...I guest that's why we have these forums! ;)

does the 68 or 78 series have PIP ?

Originally posted by Administrator


"Steve,

I understand the new 1080p sets will not have a 1080p input (which is understandable at this time). But when the set deinterlaces the 1080i signal, does it go directly from 1080i to 1080p, or does it go from 1080i to 540p then to 1080p?

I hope you can help me out with this. If not, maybe you can point me in the right direction?

Thank you."

========= Steve replied with:

to 1080p.

S


Strange - but if the question's two choices both end the with "to 1080p?" and the response is two words "to 1080p" - then which of the two options is he actually answering? :)

you're reading into it a bit much. He would've written 540 if it took the latter route.

Originally posted by Trancethereal
Strange - but if the question's two choices both end the with "to 1080p?" and the response is two words "to 1080p" - then which of the two options is he actually answering? :)
I think Steve is saying that 1080i is "de-interlaced" to 1080p not to 540p. In the other case the reference is to "scaling" 540p to 1080p -- very different.

A few more words usually help. :)

I was again reading through all the info gathered so far when I took a look at this 720p vs. 1080p comparison photo (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=4955769&fullpage=1). Its easy to see there is more viewable desktop on the 1080p set. I'm assuming Samsung was using the VGA input on these sets. I'm guessing Samsung was using a 1080i computer res on that 1080p set, but do we know for sure that these sets will not accept 1080p over the VGA inputs?

For those who saw this display, how did the text look on the two sets? Was one easier to read than the other? I'm especially interested how this screen looked on the 1080p set as it was probably scaling the image.

People here have been debating between the 4674 and the 4667. Isn't the 4667 a version of the 4663 with the HD3 chip? If so, I would be shocked if it's sharper then the 4674. Personally, between those two I think it's an easy decision... 4674. However, if you're thinking 4674 at 720p vs the 5078 at 1080p... then that's the tough one. As the 5078 will be much more expensive.

Originally posted by TMSKILZ
does the 68 or 78 series have PIP ?

They will certainly have PIP on the antenna input. But, the more useful feature would be a dual tuner cablecard solution with PIP ... this we don't know ... yet.

UCSB, you probably already have this link Samsung CES 2005 Press Room (http://www.hwhpr.com/prclients/samsung/ces05/index.html), but when I was trying to find out from Samsung when they would be updating the web page they gave me this link. They have all the press releases from CES and pictures of all the products mentioned in the press releases.

Originally posted by schaffer970
UCSB, you probably already have this link Samsung CES 2005 Press Room (http://www.hwhpr.com/prclients/samsung/ces05/index.html), but when I was trying to find out from Samsung when they would be updating the web page they gave me this link. They have all the press releases from CES and pictures of all the products mentioned in the press releases.

Great find ... on my next update later tonight, I'll add the link to the top of the thread ... plus the photos.

I'm not sure whether there is any real difference in some of the pictures, but the PR agency labeled the differently anyway :)

Originally posted by UCSB
Great find ... on my next update later tonight, I'll add the link to the top of the thread ... plus the photos.

The high res photos really show great detail! Right now they need to be downloaded and then unzipped from the Samsung site. Does anyone have any ideas about where these could be put so people could just link to them and skip the unzip step (except AVSforum where the res would have to be taken way down). Each file is about 1.25MB.

Looked more carefully at the high resolution pictures of the 68s and the buttons on the right side are TV/Video Menu Vol CH. That leaves the power in the front. Someone had asked a question about this

Originally posted by Low Roller
For those who saw this display, how did the text look on the two sets? Was one easier to read than the other? I'm especially interested how this screen looked on the 1080p set as it was probably scaling the image.

You can't really compare "easier to read" between the two, as the 720 set's text was unfairly larger (refer to the 720vs1080 pic above). But the 1080's text from where i was standing (rougly 8 feet back) was very legible, sharp and didn't appear dithered/blurry. Would I run text that size from my couch?... probably not.

As for what was doing the scaling, i believe it was being fed a 1080 res signal, while the 720 was fed a 720 signal (they were just still images scrolling back to back). By the way you asked the question...the two sets were not fed the same image, and were let to scale to their native resolutions. They were separate signals.

Does anyone know if Samsung will make a 46" HLR model that will have the slim frame like the 4674? Unfortunately I have a very small space I can fit the TV in, and the 4674 is as big as I can get. If they are discontinuing this frame size then it's a 4674W or bust for me...

Thanks!

Originally posted by xymox9
Does anyone know if Samsung will make a 46" HLR model that will have the slim frame like the 4674? Unfortunately I have a very small space I can fit the TV in, and the 4674 is as big as I can get. If they are discontinuing this frame size then it's a 4674W or bust for me...

Thanks!

Production will stop on the HLPxx74W series in March or April. There is only one 46" set being offered in the 2005 line. It is the 720p HLR4667W. We don't have exact measurements yet, but it should be close to the size of the current HLP4663W.

Here is a lower res version of the HiRes HLR6768W photo (maybe a different screen size).

Low res version of HLR5688W photo.

Originally posted by UCSB
Production will stop on the HLPxx74W series in March or April. There is only one 46" set being offered in the 2005 line. It is the 720p HLR4667W. We don't have exact measurements yet, but it should be close to the size of the current HLP4663W.

Thanks for the help. That's what I assumed when I didn't see any mention of it. Looks like I'm buying a 4674W while they're still making that size...Sheesh, I'd like to strangle whoemever designed my house with such a small TV niche!

Originally posted by xymox9
Thanks for the help. That's what I assumed when I didn't see any mention of it. Looks like I'm buying a 4674W while they're still making that size...Sheesh, I'd like to strangle whoemever designed my house with such a small TV niche!

Maybe it's time to get out the circular saw and enlarge it ... :D

Originally posted by UCSB
Here is a lower res version of the HiRes HLR6768W photo (maybe a different screen size).

Does anyone know what the height of the STAND is in this figure?

Originally posted by millerwill
Does anyone know what the height of the STAND is in this figure?

I don't know how precise of an answer you need, but the current HLPxx63 and HLPxx74 stands on the www.samsungusa.com site are probably a pretty close approximation.

June seems so far away! :(

Originally posted by TMSKILZ
June seems so far away! :( From pass experience with Samsung...Your probably looking at August for a actual release date.

Originally posted by TetsujinWave
If you could, Administrator, ask Steve P. about the extra HDMI input on the 78 series. Is that still planned?
Originally posted by CSonntag
Is it just me, or do the last few responses from Steve make it appear that he's getting tired answering questions?
Steve has quickly replied to other e-mails in the past when the answer was something simple like the last few have been, but you're right... He has been very generous and helpful so far and I really appreciate it and I don't want to over burden him.

I will give him some time off from answering my questions. :)

I will ask him about this the next time I e-mail him though.

Originally posted by jwv651
From pass experience with Samsung...Your probably looking at August for a actual release date.
I think Samsung will actually make or be very close to making their release dates this year.

TxSooner makes a very good point:

Originally posted by TxSooner
Samsung is under quite a bit more pressure to meet their dates this time around. By July 1st, their entire HLP product line will have to be retired by mandate from the FCC. The FCC requires all TV's with screens >36" (I think I have the size right) to have ATSC tuners (either integrated or via an included STB) by that date. None of the current crop of HLPs do.

Their choices are have the HLRs ready, role out HLPs with tuners, or simply not have a DLP product to sell. So I have a feeling, at least this time around, we will be seeing them released somewhat close to on time, or at the very latest by the July 1st date.

Originally posted by Administrator
I think Samsung will actually make or be very close to making their release dates this year.

TxSooner makes a very good point: I hope you are right cause I have had 2 HLP6163 bite the dust...Samsung is giving me a refund or another replacement...I am taking the refund...I will be without HDTV for a long time...this is not going to be easy watching a old 20" Sony sitting on a 60" TV stand.

Originally posted by jwv651
I hope you are right cause I have had 2 HLP6163 bite the dust...Samsung is giving me a refund or another replacement...I am taking the refund...I will be without HDTV for a long time...this is not going to be easy watching a old 20" Sony sitting on a 60" TV stand.
You could try to make a deal with whomever you buy from that you'll buy another HLP6163W now if you can have the option to upgrade to a new 2005 HLR set with no restocking fee when they come out. Others on this forum have been successful in making deals like this at their local stores...

If they won't give you a new 6163 with this deal, maybe you can get an open box?

Originally posted by Administrator
You could try to make a deal with whomever you buy from that you'll buy another HLP6163W now if you can have the option to upgrade to a new 2005 HLR set with no restocking fee when they come out. Others on this forum have been successful in making deals like this at their local stores...

If they won't give you a new 6163 with this deal, maybe you can get an open box? I just pre-ordered a H-LR6168 from TVA with KIN...I guess I will have to wait and see...hopefully prices will come down from the MSRP that is listed on there website.

Is TVA selling for MSRP on that set?

Preorders are at MSRP until the set actually come out. Preorder really only puts you on a waiting list. They do not charge you until the set comes out and they get confirmation that you still want the set.

Originally posted by UCSB
The high res photos really show great detail! Right now they need to be downloaded and then unzipped from the Samsung site. Does anyone have any ideas about where these could be put so people could just link to them and skip the unzip step (except AVSforum where the res would have to be taken way down). Each file is about 1.25MB.
http://www.imageshack.us is free and really easy to use and you don't have to create an account, but the max file size you can upload is only 1MB.

I opened the original HiRes .jpg files with Photoshop and clicked "File" from the top, then "Save for Web" and saved them as a .gif file. Now the file sizes are much smaller and there isn't really a noticeable difference in image quality.

(The original HLR5087W.jpg file was 1.18MB. When I used Photoshop to make it a .gif, the file size dropped to 608KB.)

Then I uploaded all the .gif files to ImageShack. I couldn't tell a difference between the .gif and the original .jpg files. You can view the .gif files here:
HLR5087W (http://img102.exs.cx/img102/7734/hlr5087w8qt.gif)
HLR5688W (http://img15.exs.cx/img15/875/hlr5688w1oh.gif)
HLR6768W (http://img15.exs.cx/img15/972/hlr6768w2ss.gif)
HLR5668W (http://img15.exs.cx/img15/1649/hlr5668w2al.gif)
HLR6168W (http://img15.exs.cx/img15/6107/hlr6168w8wa.gif)
HLR5067W (http://img15.exs.cx/img15/4193/hlr5067w3mr.gif)
HLR5667W (http://img15.exs.cx/img15/3956/hlr5667w5vg.gif)
HLR6167W (http://img15.exs.cx/img15/5630/hlr6167w3vz.gif)

Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting (http://www.imageshack.us)

I think the Stevemeister is getting a little bit frustrated with all the questions being shot at him. He probably thinks we're a bunch of nerds. Hey! We're your early adopters and just want to know what's up dude!

Administrator .... thanks for organizing the photos! I'll add the links to the photos areas on the post at the top of the thread.

Congratulate me I just got FULL WAF sign off on the HLR7078 when it comes out and our addition is complete this summer. Here's to hopping it doesn't disappoint me when I run it though it's paces at my local Tweeter. Never could have gotten it with out this post and all it's information and pretty Wife friendly pictures. So thanks for all the hard work.

Great job on uploading the image files. These are much better than anything I took at the show! Regarding the pricing & shipping dates on our site - these are placeholders and will be updated as we get better information from Samsung. Placing a pre-order with us puts you into our que for that product but we will contact you once updated pricing is recieved and before the product is shipped to confirm all the details.

the 46" sets that will be discontinued...does anyone care to take a guess on how much they might be discounted? Based on previous sets that have been discontinued? I've been lurking(also looking) to get an HDTV and have decided on a samsung DLP based on what I've read in this and other forums and a discontinued set would interest me.

Originally posted by Kirk@TVAuthority
Great job on uploading the image files. These are much better than anything I took at the show! Regarding the pricing & shipping dates on our site - these are placeholders and will be updated as we get better information from Samsung. Placing a pre-order with us puts you into our que for that product but we will contact you once updated pricing is recieved and before the product is shipped to confirm all the details.

Kirk, when you were checking out the ports on the back of the 78 series at CES did you notice anything about the shape of the back of the units? It appears to me that about 2" from the front of the TV, the case indents about 1" or so and then tapers along an angle toward the back of the set. This would mean that the clearance for the main part of the set is actually about 2" less than the front dimensions. Can you confirm this? Also, the angle of the taper appears to be pretty large (40 degrees???), can you comment on this also?

Originally posted by Nike-Air
the 46" sets that will be discontinued...does anyone care to take a guess on how much they might be discounted? Based on previous sets that have been discontinued? I've been lurking(also looking) to get an HDTV and have decided on a samsung DLP based on what I've read in this and other forums and a discontinued set would interest me.
Well the new 2005 HLR 46" set will have an MSRP of $2699... (Or so they say.)

It's tough to say what they'll discount the HLP4674W too, but I'd imagine that you could get it for less then that.

(You should be able to get it for that price now if you talk to someone on commission.)

Given that the 4663 has a MSRP of either $3299 or $2999 (depending upon which source you believe) and does not have the integrated tuner, I think you can expect some price drops on this very soon given that its replacement, the 4667 w/integrated tuner, has a preannounced MSRP of $2699 and is due out in April.

Frankly I would expect to pay several hundred under $2699 for a 4663, given a high probability that the street price of the 4667 will be somewhat under MSRP. Anyone paying near the 4667 MSRP for a 4663 is not paying attention.

I expect image quality on the 4667 to be very close to the same as the 4663, it looks like a tuner upgrade of the x63 series to me.

Trying to guess the price on the 4674 is harder. Distribution has always been limited on this set, none of my local Samsung dealers have ever stocked a x74 set. I doubt they ever will now. Thus it is likely that there will be few to none as surplus inventory to clear before the new models hit - unless Samsung has a lot of them to release into their sales channels. I will be surprised if "fire sales" materialize on the X74's. I don't expect the prices to fall below the 4667, as that is not a replacement for the 4674 - unless one gets lucky & finds a store clearing it out.

Do the majority of potenial buyers even care that the HLRs will have NTSC and ATSC tuners? The prospect of putting some really ugly antenna on my roof and running a coaxial cable all the way to my TV doesn't sound that appealing. Besides I could only get 3 HD channels in area. I'm sure when I'm ready for HD I'll be getting it from my Sat or Cable company. I know it's a FCC mandate to have these tuners but I think that are mostly useless.

The cable card feature on the other hand sounds intriging but I don't know much about it yet.

Do we know for sure when the HLP4674W will be discountinued? And approx how long after they stop rolling off the Samsung assembly line until I can no longer purchase them online or in the B&M stores? I'd kind of like to know my drop dead date for ordering this unit.

Bill, I looked at lot of TV's that day but this sounds right. It angled inward on top and both sides and then a little below the centerline on the back it pretty much dropped straight down if I remember correctly. Yes, the back dimensions were less than the front by at least 2 inches.

Originally posted by Jamers
Do we know for sure when the HLP4674W will be discountinued? And approx how long after they stop rolling off the Samsung assembly line until I can no longer purchase them online or in the B&M stores? I'd kind of like to know my drop dead date for ordering this unit.
The HLP4674W will be discontinued sometime in March or April. Steve Panosian confirmed this in an e-mail to me. You can read it here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5010171#post5010171

My hunch is there will be some movement in the HLP-XX63W series pricing in the coming weeks so Samsung can clear inventory for the introduction of the 67 series. I agree with Tom, it is less likely there will be a price drop for the 74 series anytime soon.

Originally posted by Tom_Bombadil
I don't expect the prices to fall below the 4667, as that is not a replacement for the 4674 - unless one gets lucky & finds a store clearing it out.
A friend of mine works for Ultimate Electronics and was authorized to sell me the 4674 for the MSRP price of the 4667. This was over a month ago before the 4667 was even heard of.

I would imagine that the price he can get me now or in a month or so will be even lower...

If you're looking to buy the HLP4674W, go to someone that works on commission and work out a deal. You should be able to get it for less then the 4667 will be, or at the very least, the same price.

TV Authority is practically doing that now although it's hard to say exactly because their shipping is free. I don't know the actual shipping costs. The only store in Tampa where the 4674 can be purchased has the balls to still be charging $3299. Or at least that's the sticker, I haven't tried to negotiate.

Originally posted by Jamers
Or at least that's the sticker, I haven't tried to negotiate.
If you try, there's a good chance you can get it for less. (Especially if they're on commission.)

Originally posted by Administrator
If you tried, there's a good chance you could get it for less. (Especially if they're on commission.)

Well I'm not much of a negotiator. How would that work really? Would I just say, "Hey, I'll buy a 4674 today for $2899 otherwise I'll have to shop around or just wait for a new models"? Then the sales guy goes back into a dark smoke filled room to consult his sales manager and comes out with a smile and says "Well we can do that if you buy the 4 yr extended warranty plan". And then I say "Well in that case make it $2799 and you have a deal."

What do you think? Is it like buying a car?

By the way, the 4674 says out-of-stock on Onecall.com. Should I be worried? Is the shortage already beginning?

Jamers: Yes, it's very much like buying a car (and is getting to where it cost almost as much)!

Originally posted by Jamers
Well I'm not much of a negotiator. How would that work really? Would I just say, "Hey, I'll buy a 4674 today for $2899 otherwise I'll have to shop around or just wait for a new models"? Then the sales guy goes back into a dark smoke filled room to consult his sales manager and comes out with a smile and says "Well we can do that if you buy the 4 yr extended warranty plan". And then I say "Well in that case make it $2799 and you have a deal."

What do you think? Is it like buying a car?

By the way, the 4674 says out-of-stock on Onecall.com. Should I be worried? Is the shortage already beginning?

Suggestion ... print out the Samsung press release (link at top of post that started this thread). It clearly states that the new HLR4667W will be $2,699. Take this down to your retailer. Tell them you want to buy the HLP4674W, instead of waiting until the new unit ships. Offer them the $2,699. Hold your ground ... try a few retailers ... you will probably get your new TV for this price.

Originally posted by Jamers
Well I'm not much of a negotiator. How would that work really? Would I just say, "Hey, I'll buy a 4674 today for $2899 otherwise I'll have to shop around or just wait for a new models"? Then the sales guy goes back into a dark smoke filled room to consult his sales manager and comes out with a smile and says "Well we can do that if you buy the 4 yr extended warranty plan". And then I say "Well in that case make it $2799 and you have a deal."

What do you think? Is it like buying a car?

By the way, the 4674 says out-of-stock on Onecall.com. Should I be worried? Is the shortage already beginning?
Yeah, that sounds pretty good. Some sales people will go for it, some won't. Best bet is to go in and start a conversation with one of the sales people, then make an offer like you've described above. It is like buying a car... And you're right, they will most likely make you buy the 4 year extended warranty in order to receive the discount on the TV - So plan on that.

If it doesn't work, try again another day with another sales person or at another store.

I wouldn't worry about Onecall being out-of-stock right now.

Originally posted by UCSB
Suggestion ... print out the Samsung press release (link at top of post that started this thread). It clearly states that the new HLR4667W will be $2,699. Take this down to your retailer. Tell them you want to buy the HLP4674W, instead of waiting until the new unit ships. Offer them the $2,699. Hold your ground ... try a few retailers ... you will probably get your new TV for this price.
Bill has a very good suggestion here! Like I said, you should be able to get it for that price or cheaper!

Interesting how TVA only lists the 6168 and 6768 available for preordering...
Curious as to why the 5668 isn't on there? (as that's the size that i need)....

ARrrrrgh #($)@()$*)@#(. Hate hate HATE all this speculation crap and waiting. Call me the microwave generation or whatever... but i want it NOW!!!!!!!

Ok. I'll go crawl back into my hole now :o

:D

If what I have read from CES attendees is true and the Samsung 1080p has a "softer" picture than the Sony SXRD due to "wobulation", but a higher contrast ratio (5,000 instead of 3,000 and assuming the measurements are actually comparable), which trade-off is better -- higher contrast or sharper picture?

Originally posted by millerwill
I just saw that TVA has the HLR6168 on their product list (due out June 1), and they say it has the xHD3 chip. Are they just blowing in the wind, or do you suppose they know something? (I agree with all the above discusiion in this thread, i.e., that the specs that have been talked about strongly suggest that the chiip in the xx68's and xx78's is a later generation than the xHD3.)

I just finished chatting with a customer rep at TVA reg. the very same issue and he said according to some documentation he had they weren't sure if it was an xHD3 or an xHD4. And he said he would ask the website people to correct the website.....

Sorry, I am a little late in replying to your post but I am slowly catching up with this fast moving thread!

My apologies on behalf of TV Authority. It looks like we still had some old information on the website. We are in the process of adding models but I will follow up to make sure we haven't forgotten about the HL-R5668W. I certainly wouldn't want to anyone to miss out on placing a pre-order with us :)

So do we know or not if Samsung ever incorported this ColorDisc technology? http://optics.unaxis.com/en/ColorD_541.asp

The only thing we know about the color wheel is what is found in the first post:

3. What kind of color wheels are used in the new models (7 segment or possibly some other approach)?

A. Comments by KyungKim (CES Attendee)

B. Seven, according to one rep, says the wheel is larger to accomadate the extra rez. Other than that the wheel is the same.

Originally posted by Administrator
You could try to make a deal with whomever you buy from that you'll buy another HLP6163W now if you can have the option to upgrade to a new 2005 HLR set with no restocking fee when they come out. Others on this forum have been successful in making deals like this at their local stores...

If they won't give you a new 6163 with this deal, maybe you can get an open box? I forgot to mention I bought mine from TVA not a B/M...looks like my only options are to get the refund or a replacement from Samsung....I did email Neil and Kirk for any suggestions or recommendations...already pre-ordered a Samsung HLR6168...its going to be tough to be without a HDTV for 6 months...Wish I didn't have so many problems with the HLP6163, I really liked it when it was where working.

Hopefully, the wait won't be too long. The Samsung person I talked to at CES says they learned their lesson last time and if anything we will be pleasantly surprised this time. That cetainly would be different.

I know I have my fingers crossed :)

I have fingers, toes, wires, EVERYTHING crossed.

Just don't cross too many wires - it can be dangerous :)

Originally posted by Kirk@TVAuthority
We are in the process of adding models but I will follow up to make sure we haven't forgotten about the HL-R5668W.

Why...Oh thank you, kind sir!! :cool:

Cookie for you! :D

ericlhyman,

I wouldn't say that the picture is "softer" than the Qualia. Even if it is, wobulation has nothing to do with it.

While I like the DLP and will probably purchase one for myself, I will not lie. The Sony Qualia SXRD has the best picture I've seen. That includes plasmas, LCoS variants, CRTs, LCD direct-view, LCD RPTV, DLP, you name it.

For that performance you will pay a premium. $13000 to be exact. Sony is selling the Qualia's at MSRP. For that I can buy two HLR6168W's and invest the rest in a quality audio system, engagement ring, trip to Europe, or whatever strikes my fancy at that moment. IMHO, the picture difference between the Qualia and the 1080p Samsung DLP's does not justify the price point. For some people, the opportunity cost of owning a Qualia is acceptable, and more power to them--but the vast majority of AVSForum members have never seen any of these sets in action.

None of them.

And yet, people pick up snippets of conversations and label the technology as lacking. Wobulation doesn't cause the 1080p DLP's to fall short of the Qualia--it's just a badass tv. However, TI and Samsung have used wobulation to create a very sharp, detailed, and clear picture that is almost as good. Which makes it pretty badass too.

Originally posted by millerwill
10sne1: For 1080p to be noticeable, one needs to be viewing at about 1.5 x screen diagonal. Therefore for a 46" screen, 1.5x46" = 69", i.e., 5 3/4 ft. You thus need to be viewing your 46" set at no more than ~ 6 ft for 1080p to be worthwhile.

Millerwill ... I have been thinking about this 1.5 x screen diagonal 1080p guideline since you posted it. If you could give me a little more detail behind the comment I'd appreciate it. As a minimum viewing distance, it seems close. But, as a recommended viewing distance it really seems impractical. I was thinking of adding some info to the FAQ's at the top of the thread, like horizontal, vertical viewing angles and possibly this guideline if we could establish that it was correct. Up to this point in time, I had been using 2x screen diagonal as minimum viewing distance and 2.5 as sort of an optimal area (just my personal preferences for 720p).

Bill:
I think these "guidelines" for establishing seating distance are just that. The reality is that you can sit as close or as far as you want to. I followed the "2X diagonal size" rule when establishing our primary seating area in our media room. So we have a 50" Samsung DLP and our primary seating is fight feet away. Because I had used a "guideline," I just assumed that sitting closer was not viable. Well we had some company over to watch a movie and I had to put some chairs in front of the primary seating such that the heads of those viewers were closer than 1.5X. Not only were there no complaints, when that couple comes to our house, they specifically request to sit closer. The primary seating is more comfortable, so I didn't quibble.

However, I was having some trouble with a new digital HD cable box and so I had some technicians over to see if they could remedy the situation (they did eventually). During the process of helping them exchange components, wires, etc., I did a lot of standing very close to the DLP. I must say that you can get VERY close to it and still see an amazing picture with an HD source. I was within three or four feet and the image was still spectacular.

So now I'm thinking about a 61" or maybe even a 67" in the same room :D . Guidelines are nice, but don't accord them too much power... My new guideline is: If it looks good, do it!

Administrator; with the pics you posted from the Samsung press release, notice that the 67 and the 68 are the same cabinet...............both the 'floating design'! Someone goofed.

Originally posted by videobruce
Administrator; with the pics you posted from the Samsung press release, notice that the 67 and the 68 are the same cabinet...............both the 'floating design'! Someone goofed.
The 67 and 68 Series are both Floating Screen Designs - That is no mistake. Double check the first post in this thread.

The 78 Series is the Black Lacquer Design.

Here is a rather technical article on what you can actually see and how far away you can see it: HDTV and the Resolving Power of the Eye (http://www.tvtechnology.com/features/Tech-Corner/Hoffner_features.shtml). Basically it says that for HDTV 3 X screen height.

UCSB,mnilan,schaffer970: My 1.5xdiagonal as the optimum viewing distance for the 'full hd big screen effect' does come from the reference schaffer970 cites. Since the height of a 9x16 screen is about 0.5 of the diagonal [9/sqrt(337) = 0.49], 3 times the screen ht is ~ 1.5 x diagonal. I agree that this seems awfully close, and I would interpret it to be the CLOSEST one could possibly sit; and with a 720p set one would likely begin to see artifacts at this distance. With my hlp6163 I sit about 10 ft away, i.e., 2xdiag, and will probably stay at about this same distance with the hlr6768 I'm planning on; so this would make my factor 120/67 = 1.8; if I scoot up a ft it becomes 108/67 = 1.6, getting close to the minimum. [If I were to stay at 10 ft away, and were to get a screen that came to the minimal factor of 1.5, I could go up to a screen size of 80 "! But I'm not sure that would get by the other important factor, the WAF!]

Originally posted by TetsujinWave
I wouldn't say that the picture is "softer" than the Qualia. Even if it is, wobulation has nothing to do with it...And yet, people pick up snippets of conversations and label the technology as lacking. Wobulation doesn't cause the 1080p DLP's to fall short of the Qualia--it's just a badass tv. However, TI and Samsung have used wobulation to create a very sharp, detailed, and clear picture that is almost as good. Which makes it pretty badass too.

I just figured this is worth repeating... ;)



millerwill,

Thank you for bringing some sanity to the distance debate.

Originally posted by Administrator
The 67 and 68 Series are both Floating Screen Designs - That is no mistake. Double check the first post in this thread.

The 78 Series is the Black Lacquer Design. Ok, my mistake. Too many model numbers.:mad:

Jamers wrote:

"Besides I could only get 3 HD channels in area. I'm sure when I'm ready for HD I'll be getting it from my Sat or Cable company. "

There is a little known contractual agreement that Big Cable likes to do to CBS et. al. They are called "carriage rights" and it is Big Cable asking for $$$ from them in order to feed their HD broadcasts. An HDTV antenna would make this a mute point - just cut your cable feed and go to your antenna. Preposterous you say? Ask that to the metro Boston people who didn't get their HD-feed for the Pats/Carolina Superbowl last year until a final-hour agreement was reached.

Regarding "optimal viewing distance":
I essentially agree with the 720p / 1080 viewing distances people are stating, as long as the source resolution matches the display resolution.
However, most HD sources are 1080 -- the only 720p sources I know of are ABC, FOX, ESPN-HD, and a PC or possibly HD output from an X-Box if you choose.
Movies on HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are likely to be 1080i as well.
When you scale native 1080i down to 720p, the resulting image will have less detail than a native 720p image.
To me, this is a huge reason to push for 1080 resolution on the 46" & 50" screen sizes.

Originally posted by schaffer970
Here is a rather technical article on what you can actually see and how far away you can see it: HDTV and the Resolving Power of the Eye (http://www.tvtechnology.com/features/Tech-Corner/Hoffner_features.shtml). Basically it says that for HDTV 3 X screen height.

schaffer970 and millerwill ... thanks for the link and explanation! The author's lead sentence really puts the discussion into context: "A principal advantage of HD over SD video is the ability to view larger images from closer distances." So why wouldn't 1080p improve on 720p in terms of supporting closer viewing distances. I am really going to have to evaluate screen size when it comes time for me to order my HDTV. My 720p experience and point of view will have to be updated.

Originally posted by jgrin
Regarding "optimal viewing distance":
I essentially agree with the 720p / 1080 viewing distances people are stating, as long as the source resolution matches the display resolution.
However, most HD sources are 1080 -- the only 720p sources I know of are ABC, FOX, ESPN-HD, and a PC or possibly HD output from an X-Box if you choose.
Movies on HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are likely to be 1080i as well.
When you scale native 1080i down to 720p, the resulting image will have less detail than a native 720p image.
To me, this is a huge reason to push for 1080 resolution on the 46" & 50" screen sizes.

Ugh, you guys are making these decisions so much more difficult, but I do enjoy reading through the various trains of thought on this issue. I, for one, think that the price premium makes the 1080p 50" set more difficult to swallow, but when I consider the above, it makes me rethink that. Plus, if I have guests over, and they need to sit closer, that matters. Plus, it has a higher contrast ratio.

Just a note on the cable card question that is still outstanding...

I found this over at sound and vision magazine, which hopefully sheds some light on the two-way cablecard issue...

Link to the article: (can't post links yet, so you'll have to copy and paste)

h t t p : / / w w w.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=2&article_id=752&page_number=2&preview=

Referring to Samsung's offerings at CES 2005, It says "At the show, Samsung had a 50-inch DLP rear-projection HDTV with a prototype two-way card slot it called iDCR (interactive digital cable ready)."

Hmmm... a 50-inch DLP with a "prototype" in the back?

Samsung and Time Warner also issued a press release regarding a joint agreement to deploy iDCR.

I am praying that they implement this in the sets to be released in June, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Link to the Press release:

h t t p : / / w w w . samsung.com/sg/presscenter/pressrelease/digitalmedianews_20050106_0000094154.asp

Clorox ... thanks for the info. I had read on the c/net site that Samsung was either the first or one of the first to sign-up (license) for second generation, two way cablecard technology. I hope they are going to be implementing this in these new sets, because the first generation stuff is essentially obsolete. I haven't heard a word about a two tuner cablecard capability, which leads me to believe it's probably not going to happen. But, it could because it is my understanding that under this second generation of cablecard you can have multiple tuners and only have to use a single CableCard from the cable company (anyone sure about this point?).

UCSB: Yes, I think you have really hit the crux of the issue. With 720p it's probably not feasible to sit closer than ~2xdiagonal, for one will begin to see imperfections. With 1080p one is able to sit closer, presumably up to the recommended minimum distance of ~ 1.5xdiag. And if one sits at a 2xdiag or greater viewing distance, then one will likely not be able to see any difference between a 1080p set and a 720p one. (Someone above did point out, however, that the 10,000:1 CR of the new 1080p sets may improve the PQ sufficiently to make them worth it for that alone, independent of the higher resolution.)

Originally posted by Administrator
The 67 and 68 Series are both Floating Screen Designs - That is no mistake. Double check the first post in this thread.

The 78 Series is the Black Lacquer Design.

Originally posted by videobruce
Administrator; with the pics you posted from the Samsung press release, notice that the 67 and the 68 are the same cabinet...............both the 'floating design'! Someone goofed.


Since you bring up this point.... something i noticed at CES.

The samsung press release pics are a bunch of crock. They just used the same cabinet for all the pics, and slapped on different "simulated" images.

The 61+ sized screens have a little foot at the base that connects & protrudes with the stand.... where as the <56" screens are all flat, all the way down.

You can see this in the pics on the first page. Thus... my point.... all the pics on the samsung site are the <56 model.

<56: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=5004982&fullpage=1

>56: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4966758&fullpage=1

Nit picky, yes... but just stating my observations in case others haven't noticed :D

ODL: The present hlp6163 also has this small 'foot', or base, that protrudes. I removed it on my 6163 (trivial, 10 screws; the manual notes that it is removable). Not only does it look better (IMO), but is actually more stable sitting on the stand I have. I definitely plan to remove it on the hlr6768 I will be getting.

odl ... Samsung has essentially taken a stock photo and used it to represent every 68 and 67 series model. I am still trying to figure out what I am going to do about that in the photos area of the first post. It might be better to list it separately as Official Samsung photo rather than link it to every screen size. I do believe the photos are very valuable because they show detail that is not available in the other photos.

So.. who wants to help me move my TV into the basement?

I think we're actually going through a window (we have big windows on one side), because the stairs, although straight down, the door is on the left wall, so it's a sharp L turn, it is MUCH hate..

- D