Before I do something dumb:

I was waiting for a 4677. Reason was the TV needs to fit in the existing entertainment center (wife's only limitation on what I buy). The Tantus line with the thin bezel does. From all the posts here it appears that the thin bezel is dead - the 78 series seems to have a bezel more on par with the 63 series. Am I reading this correctly?

If so, I guess I'm going down to Magnolia to put a 4674 on order. Seems strange for Samsung to be dropping a popular design. My local Magnolia tells me that they move about 20 4674's a week (and could sell more if they could get them) because of it's size ("Fits where others won't"), but the 85 series they have difficulty moving. Any other TV I should consider that fits in a 42" wide opening (ht is not a problem)?

The samsung press release pics are a bunch of crock. They just used the same cabinet for all the pics, and slapped on different "simulated" images. I'm glad I'm not the only one to notice something 'wrong'!:mad:

Originally posted by Hornet305
From all the posts here it appears that the thin bezel is dead - the 78 series seems to have a bezel more on par with the 63 series. Am I reading this correctly?
That is correct. There are no "thin bezel" sets in the 2005 lineup. The 4674 will be discontinued around March or April 2005.

Originally posted by Administrator
That is correct. There are no "thin bezel" sets in the 2005 lineup. The 4674 will be discontinued around March or April 2005.
Wow. I assume same goes for the 5674. I really like the thin bezel. I thought that was a big selling point for them. Makes no sense that they would get rid of.

Originally posted by Big Worms
Wow. I assume same goes for the 5674. I really like the thin bezel. I thought that was a big selling point for them. Makes no sense that they would get rid of.
Yes. I would assume the 5674 will be discontinued around the same time. I really like the thin bezel too... It's a shame they're not using them in any new 2005 sets.

There are a few more Samsung DLP pics from a CES attendee here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5026890#post5026890

UCSB, more sammy pictures were posted by GotHDTV? here: GotHDTV? Sammy Pictures (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=498715&perpage=20&pagenumber=2). He has a great side shot of the 70" at the TI Booth. You will want to link these to the top of this thread :)

Originally posted by schaffer970
He has a great side shot of the 70" at the TI Booth. You will want to link these to the top of this thread :)
That 70" at the TI Booth is not actually a Samsung set. It's a TI 1080p demo set.

There are a few more pics of it here:
http://www.pbase.com/jsjames/image/38400038
http://www.pbase.com/jsjames/image/38400039

Edit: There are a few more here too:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4967038#post4967038

Originally posted by videobruce
I'm glad I'm not the only one to notice something 'wrong'!:mad:

OK ... I've taken all of the stock photos out of 61" and larger sets. This leaves only the 56" in the 68 series, which I believe is correct. In the 67 series, I have only left the 50" and 56".

I have added afew of the gotHDTV photos to the collection. I tried to pick ones that added something new.

Clorox solid post!

I too am hoping like crazy Samsung includes this new cablecard tech into the 1080p sets being released by June.

Admin anyway you can hit up Mr.P about this question?

Originally posted by TMSKILZ
Clorox solid post!

I too am hoping like crazy Samsung includes this new cablecard tech into the 1080p sets being released by June.

Admin anyway you can hit up Mr.P about this question?

We should know the answer to our cablecard questions here shortly when the HLR5688W and HLR5087W are released in Feb. Manuals could become available soon.

Originally posted by UCSB
We should know the answer to our cablecard questions here shortly when the HLR5688W and HLR5087W are released in Feb. Manuals could become available soon.
The sets released in April and/or June could possibly have an upgraded cablecard slot that they couldn't get ready in time for the February sets...

I am still giving Steve some "time off", but I'll ask him about this the next time I e-mail him.

If I had to guess, I'd say the iDCR cablecard slots will not be incorporated into the sets until 2006.

Any further info on the 6778? I was looking for a pic, and see if they have a black stand. Still wonder what Samsung considers a high end store? Magnolia? Good Guys? I assume the CC's and BB's will not have the Black sets. The first page of this thread shows a 7078, not sure how much the Street Price will be on the HLR6778W.

Also, with everyone pre-ordering, do you really want the first ones out?

There is no such animal. The 67" is only in the 68 series, and the 50" and 70" are only in the 78 series. Magnolia and Tweeter would be good bets, IMHO.

OH...I thought it was an error. Have not heard much about a 70".

Originally posted by TetsujinWave
There is no such animal. The 67" is only in the 68 series, and the 50" and 70" are only in the 78 series. Magnolia and Tweeter would be good bets, IMHO.

Originally posted by mpsan
OH...I thought it was an error. Have not heard much about a 70".

mpsan ... I have been maintaining the very first post (Post #1) at the top of this thread to contain all of our spec's and photos. We have quite a few photos, the product demo card at CES, and a poster on the 70". Please remember the 70" is a tentative model at this point.

Originally posted by mpsan
Also, with everyone pre-ordering, do you really want the first ones out?

I ordered my HLN467W during the first week or so after it was introduced and it arrived within 3 days. It has been absolutely reliable and has worked perfectly for the past year and a half. But, I agree waiting a few months seems to make sense and gives Samsung time to find any bugs.

One thing that I have not liked about being an early adopter is my inability to update firmware. As we have seen in prior models, depending on your ship date you will get a later version of firmware. I really wish Samsung would let us update the firmware on our sets!!!

Anyway to answer your question, I will wait unit I can actually see one of the new series 78's at my local Magnolia. If I like it, I will order it that day.

The Black Laquer series is sexy, but it comes at a price premium... it's kinda like a sub sandwich, and a Subway Sub Sandwich... both taste awesome, but one is more expensive.

Personally, if all the innards are the same as you say, I'll happily save some cash and get the 67" 68 series, it looks fine to me.

Anyone else agree?

- D

Yes, I saw that and was surprised at the 70". Saw photo's as well. It will be good to see what the Video Mags say.

Originally posted by UCSB
I ordered my HLN467W during the first week or so after it was introduced and it arrived within 3 days. It has been absolutely reliable and has worked perfectly for the past year and a half. But, I agree waiting a few months seems to make sense and gives Samsung time to find any bugs.

One thing that I have not liked about being an early adopter is my inability to update firmware. As we have seen in prior models, depending on your ship date you will get a later version of firmware. I really wish Samsung would let us update the firmware on our sets!!!

Anyway to answer your question, I will wait unit I can actually see one of the new series 78's at my local Magnolia. If I like it, I will order it that day.

I was going to ask about firmware...do they make you change a card or is there a way to load it.

P.S. I will look up here at Magnolia as well. Hope there is a Black 70"...if not WAF will come into play. :D

P.S. Worked in Sunnyvale for a long time so I do know where Pleasanton is. LONG Commute! We lived in Saratoga before moving up here.


Originally posted by UCSB
I ordered my HLN467W during the first week or so after it was introduced and it arrived within 3 days. It has been absolutely reliable and has worked perfectly for the past year and a half. But, I agree waiting a few months seems to make sense and gives Samsung time to find any bugs.

One thing that I have not liked about being an early adopter is my inability to update firmware. As we have seen in prior models, depending on your ship date you will get a later version of firmware. I really wish Samsung would let us update the firmware on our sets!!!

Anyway to answer your question, I will wait unit I can actually see one of the new series 78's at my local Magnolia. If I like it, I will order it that day.

I personally like the 68 series, and have a 61" on order. I do have some qualms about being an early adopter (I think I am #1 on TVA's list as I had previously preordered a 6197) but the wife wanted it for Christmas and now I have already put her off till June. I'll take my chances with Samsung; from what I can tell they have been overall pretty good at treating their customers right.

Yes, I will be getting the 6768. If they made the 70"-er in the 68 format, I would get that; I just like the 'floating screen' setup better than the 'black lacquer screen'.

Originally posted by UCSB
Suggestion ... print out the Samsung press release (link at top of post that started this thread). It clearly states that the new HLR4667W will be $2,699. Take this down to your retailer. Tell them you want to buy the HLP4674W, instead of waiting until the new unit ships. Offer them the $2,699. Hold your ground ... try a few retailers ... you will probably get your new TV for this price.

It's a good strategy. And any dealer who falls for it, deserves the low profit margin they will make on the sale.

Certainly worth a try.

Originally posted by mpsan
I was going to ask about firmware...do they make you change a card or is there a way to load it.

There currently is NO way to update the firmware. If there is a problem with the TV, Samsung will have a repair shop swap out the affected electronics. But, there is no way short of this for owners to benefit from improvements in the firmware.

***SPECULATION ONLY***

I wonder if with the 1394 ports it might might be possible to update the firmware. At least a possibility.

Why do they call it the floating screen?


Originally posted by millerwill
Yes, I will be getting the 6768. If they made the 70"-er in the 68 format, I would get that; I just like the 'floating screen' setup better than the 'black lacquer screen'.

Here is a closeup of the "Floating Screen" (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4955704&fullpage=1). Go to the first post in this thread to see all of the pictures of the 05 Samsung sets you can then see the differences :)

I had seen that before, but is that small gap supposed to be floating? Marketing....OH well!

P.S. Never made it to Grand Junction but we lived in Arvada for a while. Our son is still in Littleton.


Originally posted by schaffer970
Here is a closeup of the "Floating Screen" (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4955704&fullpage=1). Go to the first post in this thread to see all of the pictures of the 05 Samsung sets you can then see the differences :)

Originally posted by Daphoid
The Black Laquer series is sexy, but it comes at a price premium... it's kinda like a sub sandwich, and a Subway Sub Sandwich... both taste awesome, but one is more expensive.

Personally, if all the innards are the same as you say, I'll happily save some cash and get the 67" 68 series, it looks fine to me.

Anyone else agree?

- D

I agree, but personally i'm going for the 61" in the 68 series. I like the 68 series better than the 78 series.

Rasho just went down with a serious injury in the Suns game. My Spurs are in trouble if Rasho is done for the year! :mad:

I took another shot at placing the new 78 and 68 series in my room --- this time from my favorite viewing spot on the end of the couch. The look is growing on me.

Here is my current installation, with my HLN467W. I had to over expose the image on the screen to get the look on the wood cabinet the way I wanted it ... don't worry the HLN467W has an awesome HD picture.


Baseline photo, current installation.

Here is the 50" series 78.

Here is the 56" series 78.

Here is the 56" series 68.

UC,

Come on. Go 70" baby!!

-Mr. Wigggles

Ps. in the 56" pic, I think I see your wife leaving with the kids in the screen reflection. She doesn't look happy.

OK I know that everything is still "tentative" from Samsung at this point regarding prices on the new line of 1080 DLP's (hopefully arriving around June 05), but after looking at TVA's early MSRPs for the HLR6168 & HLR6768, it seems that the price discrepancy between the two is WAY too wide!

The listed MSRP for the 6168 is "$4499", and the MSRP for the 6768 is "$6999". And with the price for Samsung's current latest/greatest model (the HLP5674) typically running right around $4000, the price on the 6168 seems reasonable (for a $500 jump for the extra 5 inches). Of course right now, that looks EXTREMELY reasonable for jumping up to 1080P from 720P - but once the DLP market place moves up to 1080P (as it soon will) it will not be as great of a value jump.

However right now in comparing these two sizes of the 68 series, it seems VERY high for the 6768 to jump up $2500 in MSRP for its 6" increase in size over the 6168. I would think that it should be no more than $500-$1000 more than the 61" - yielding a more reasonable MSRP of something like $4999 - $5499.

Does anyone else think this???

Yeah I do.... and if I can't afford the 67" it'll make me cry... because I have the space for it!

- D

$6,999 is the price that was in the Samsung press release. I believe that they were telling people on the floor at CES the price was $5,999. In my mind there always has been question as to what the actual price would be (was the $6,999 a typo - there was at least one other one in the press release). $5,999 is more in line with what one would expect.

I agree that the $6000 price for the 6768 is the most consistent figure that is out.

Question for those that have seen them: is the black border on the xx78 series really as shiny as it looks in the pictures? Or does the flash just bring it out. Surely would be nicer if it were more of a matte black.

Originally posted by schaffer970
$6,999 is the price that was in the Samsung press release.

This is correct. I had the $6,999 number in the stats at the top of the thread, but took it out as more comments from the floor indicated $5,999. I can go back to showing it with the note ... Samsung Press Release $6,999. What does everyone think?

This is my personal take on the $6,999. There was no mention of the 78 series in the press release. I think 70" is the largest (???) or one of the largest DLP's out there, but it was not pushed or hyped. I think Samsung, during the show and maybe until now has been trying to decide if the 70" was a go and what the price might be if it was produced. I think they were going to include the 70" in the press release at $6.999. But, decide not to discuss the 78 series until it is tied down. Again, I don't have any evidence of this, but there were other errors in the press release with the 56" and 61" prices. I thought it was weird that there would be this many errors in a press release which lead me to believe it had undergone heavy editing, even the wording seemed not quite right.

UCSB, I agree with you on the pricing. Also based on what Steve P said about whether there would be a 50" set being dependent on what dealers wanted, I would suggest that the 70" is in the same category.

Originally posted by schaffer970
UCSB, I agree with you on the pricing. Also based on what Steve P said about whether there would be a 50" set being dependent on what dealers wanted, I would suggest that the 70" is in the same category.

Yes ... Steve P. said they would like to have 4 models in the 78 series and based on dealer feedback they would pick the most popular screen sizes. I am just guessing, but I bet initial response on the 70" was mixed or they would have hyped the 70" more. We still might be surprised ... with a 70" or 67".

Sorry if this has been asked before but...is there an image difference (brightness/clarity...) between the different screen sizes (like there might be with different sizes of, let's say, a CRT line)?

I didn't notice any difference. They all had beautiful, clear pictures. The only exception was the 5078, which was being fed from a upscaling dvd player (while the DVD looked good, it's not the same as seeing a true HD source).

I fully expect it to perform as well as the others in the 68 and 78 line with a HD feed.

Originally posted by UCSB
Here is my current installation, with my HLN467W. I had to over expose the image on the screen to get the look on the wood cabinet the way I wanted it ... don't worry the HLN467W has an awesome HD picture. Baseline photo, current installation.
I see your set is at countertop height. In my setting, I will need it to sit even a little higher. My fear is that the vertical angle-of-view is limited, and that I will have to tilt the set, pointing the screen slightly downward. In stores, it's hard to get a feel for this. What do you think? If someone sits on your floor and looks up at the set, do they see a good image, or are they out of the viewing angle?
thanks...

For those of you that have TV stands and such, how high off the ground is your TV sitting?

I just measured my shelf and it's just a little over 18" off the ground, is this fine for vertical angle?

- D

18" should be fine. My stand is 17.5", and it puts the middle of my hlp6163 at ~ 41" above the floor, while eye level is ~ 38" to 42". Do the analogous calculation for your set.

21.5" stand for an HLN617W. The bottom of the screen is a little over 31" off the floor. It's a little high for some purists, but it works better for my layout. I have no problem with sitting just a few degrees below vertical (minimum 10' away).

However, a set at countertop height (30 - 36"?) could have an impact on the image if you don't tilt it. The new sets don't look to be as tall from the base of the set to the bottom of the screen as my HLN, but you may still be up too high for comfortable viewing.

Originally posted by russdog
I see your set is at countertop height. In my setting, I will need it to sit even a little higher. My fear is that the vertical angle-of-view is limited, and that I will have to tilt the set, pointing the screen slightly downward. In stores, it's hard to get a feel for this. What do you think? If someone sits on your floor and looks up at the set, do they see a good image, or are they out of the viewing angle?
thanks...

I had my cabinet custom designed and installed (unfortunately before these new large screen DLP's were developed or I would have done something a little different). It has a shelf height of 30" (note - the stock Samsung stand is 20" tall on their web site). A typical kitchen counter is usually 36". The bottom of the case on the HLN467W is 7.5" higher, so the picture starts 37.5" off the floor.

I usually watch my set from the couch which is 9 - 10 feet from the set. I have two gliding-rocker-recliners on the back side of the room that I typically leave 12 feet from the set, but can be moved forward easily into the 9 to 10 foot range also. The picture is perfect from all locations.

I actually watch my set from the floor a lot because my #1 hobby is sports and I like to do my floor exercises and regeneration work from the floor while watching the set. In fact, I just finished watching an episode of Horatio Hornblower while doing a rather extensive ABS workout. From 10 to 12 feet away I get a good picture from the floor and probably spend 300+ hours a year watching from the floor.

All of the leather furniture in the room is Hancock and Moore (City product line). It has firmer cushions and an higher cushion height than many other products. If anyone is interested in high-end leather furniture for their setup, I highly recommend this product. Each piece is custom spec'd and built.

I have no viewing angle issues in my current setup. But, if you saw the pictures then you know I am putting a lot of work into planning my next upgrade. I have finished a number of room designs with the 50" series 78 and the 56" series 78, 68. I finished my first pass earlier today and I have a whole set of high resolution photos here on my desk of every possible set from a number of angles and viewing positions. If anyone else is doing the same thing, remember they have the technical drawings for every HLPxxxxW unit on the Samsung site. I can use either the 50" or 56" in my setup. I'll probably go with the 56". As part of my evaluation, I simulated viewing angle performance from every seating position in the room to the top of the 56" screen and everything works!

As I was working on this project, I was hoping that Samsung might even improve the performance of their screens for vertical viewing angles. As the screen sizes get larger this will be a must if you want to have consistent viewing over the entire screen. With the 67" and possibly 70" screens I would expect improvements in this area for all of their screens this year.

I'm not planning on tilting my set. I really can't recommend tilting. If your counter is 36", then depending on the screen size you select there could be a problem. You really need to look at the technical drawings on the Samsung site and make some measurements so you can make comments like ... I will be viewing from x inches above the bottom of the screen or y inches below the top of the screen at this distance. Then it is easy to just test those specific conditions.

Originally posted by Daphoid
For those of you that have TV stands and such, how high off the ground is your TV sitting?

I just measured my shelf and it's just a little over 18" off the ground, is this fine for vertical angle?

- D

18" is just perfect. You can look at all of the stock Samsung DLP stands (and the dimensions) at www.samsungusa.com.

Lots of rumors throughout this thread when the "Best in Show" (CNET) Samsung 67" will be available. Anyone have the latest educated guess?

Happy viewing.

Best guess is the date Samsung gave - June 2005. Anything other than that is only speculation.

Sony and Hitachi have had good sales of their 70" LCDs and Mitsubishi has a 73" CRT RPTV, so I would think there would be no problem selling a 70" DLP if the price is competitive.

I've been doing a little more planning on my upgrade. Specifically, I have been analyzing vertical viewing angles. The attachment is a small (640 pixel wide) version of a larger 125MB file (9216 pixel wide). There are six screen shots in the photo. In the original each screen shot is 7.1 MP image and is 3072x2304, shot with a Canon S70 using a Samsung HLN467W. The screen shots show various distances below center line on the screen in degrees. From left to right across the top row is 0 degrees, -5, -10. On the bottom row from left to right is -15, -20, - 23 degrees.

I'm still analyzing the data, but there is a consistent change is the picture from 0 to 23 degrees. Even in the 0 to 5 degrees below center line there is a noticable difference. I'll get my ideas together and comment more on this later, but one thing is for sure ... the vertical viewing angle is very sensitive to small changes. Look at the black title bar in the lower part of the screen and notice how it consistently lightens with each change in angle.

Here is a larger clearer version (220KB) of the attachment in the prior post: CLICK HERE (http://img163.exs.cx/img163/469/master2048jpg0xk.jpg)

If you want to calculate some angles for your installation here is a handy arcTangent calculator: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/ttrig.html

It is the last one on the page.

Nice work Bill!

Looks like at 10ft, sitting on a 18" shelf, the samsung should be quite lovely!

- D

From the discussions above about the various xx68 and xx78 models: would anyone venture a guess as to when we might hear whether or not there will be a 70" (presumably 7078) set?

Originally posted by millerwill
From the discussions above about the various xx68 and xx78 models: would anyone venture a guess as to when we might hear whether or not there will be a 70" (presumably 7078) set?

The short answer ... March 1.

Since the HLR5688 is scheduled to be out next month, someone should call Magnolia (or similar retailer) and ask about the delivery on the 5688. While you have them on the phone ask if the HD2+ is still in the 5087 and we can close that open issue out. Then ask them about the tabletops and see what they say.

How did I get to the March 1 date? If they are going to launch the 78 series in June, they need to give a product line to their retailers and begin taking orders. Plus, since this is a new technology any brochures, ads, training, government approaval and manuals will have to completed. Not to mention their final engineering and manufacturing ramp up. I'm sure if you call your retailer in the March 1 timeframe or earlier ... they will know the story.

Plus since the 68 series has been announced, the dealers will be a big disadvantage if they don't have anything to talk about. The dealers are going to want answers.

I thought you said a while back that you liked the 68 series style over the 78 series. Since the 67" is definitely going to be produced in the 68 series, wouldn't you just go with it?

Originally posted by UCSB
Here is a larger clearer version (220KB) of the attachment in the prior post: CLICK HERE (http://img163.exs.cx/img163/469/master2048jpg0xk.jpg)

After spending some time with this photo, I just wanted to point out that if you look at the word Samsung at the bottom of the each picture, you can get a pretty good idea of how fast brightness is decreasing. Since I was shooting with automatic exposure, the differences between the pictures was probably reduced. But, the Samsung logo is a constant and good benchmark for brightness.

Originally posted by UCSB
After spending some time with this photo, I just wanted to point out that if you look at the word Samsung at the bottom of the each picture, you can get a pretty good idea of how fast brightness is decreasing. Since I was shooting with automatic exposure, the differences between the pictures was probably reduced. But, the Samsung logo is a constant and good benchmark for brightness.

Um, I only see the Samsung logo at the bottom of the last two pictures (20 degrees and 23 degrees) and it appears to be cut off from the others. Am I missing something?

Thanks for the visual reference; it's useful. I wonder what a graph of "brightness versus vertical angle" would look like -- does it drop off in a linear fashion, or what?

Originally posted by UCSB
The short answer ... March 1.


I thought you said a while back that you liked the 68 series style over the 78 series. Since the 67" is definitely going to be produced in the 68 series, wouldn't you just go with it?

What a good memory you have! Yes, I did say that I liked the xx68 style better, but I like the 70" size better--what a choice! So I'm trying to see if I can warm up to the xx78 style.

A Modest Proposal/Request: From some of the discussion above, it seems that Samsung's plans for their new 1080p sets, xx68 and xx78, may not be frozen in stone, e.g., their sizes and perhaps even the form factor. I would like to suggest a minor alteration of the xx78 sets and hope that the Administrator, or any other of you connected to Samsung, would communicate to them: namely, replace the shiny black border on the xx78 sets with the black border on the xx68 sets (which I think is the same as the black border on the present hlpxx63 series). I think it would make a much classier package.

If any other of you agree with this suggestion, would you make it known? Maybe if enough of us think this way, Samsung might listen (though I'm not holding my breath!).

Hear hear. I second the motion.

im thinking about getting the 5063W, can this tv display 50/50 split screen HD and internet at the same time?

Originally posted by UCSB
After spending some time with this photo, I just wanted to point out that if you look at the word Samsung at the bottom of the each picture, you can get a pretty good idea of how fast brightness is decreasing. Since I was shooting with automatic exposure, the differences between the pictures was probably reduced. But, the Samsung logo is a constant and good benchmark for brightness.

The brightness decreases but not uniformally. In some areas near the bottom brightness appears to actually increase. Is this consistent with other DLP models? Is this better or worst than traditional RPTVs?

Originally posted by Jamers
The brightness decreases but not uniformally. In some areas near the bottom brightness appears to actually increase. Is this consistent with other DLP models? Is this better or worst than traditional RPTVs?

Brightness is VERY consistent on a DLP top to bottom. DLP are very, very bright. The effects in my photos are exaggerated because I did my tests only 57 inches from the front of the DLP. This means that the viewing angles at the very top of the screen are much greater than the specified amount and any difference top to bottom was more of a result of my test method (being close to the screen) than the performance of the TV. From a normal viewing distance, you would not see any brightness difference top to bottom.

Viewing angles, clarity, and brightness on DLP sets are, IMHO, a hugh (revolutionary) improvement on traditional RPTV's. To put that into perspective, I wouldn't have owned a traditional RPTV.

I created the test photos because I was evaluating what would happen if I put a 56" set on top of a 30" cabinet. In my case, that gave me worst case, top of screen viewing angles of between 8 degrees and 17 degrees (depending on seating position). I checked photos and this was acceptable ... so I have some confidence in placing the 56" set on the cabinet.

I am also hoping that there have been some screen performance improvements with the HLR's over my current HLN. The improved contrast will help, also.

The lesson from my test: try to get the monitor centered at eye level for the best picture, but it is OK to be 5 or 10 degrees off center line.

The black shiny edge IS the main difference in the models so they can offer something different to the upscale stores. If they change it to the same as the 68 series they have defeated their purpose. The Samsung folks said the 67" was $500 more than the 61".

Originally posted by pjr
The black shiny edge IS the main difference in the models so they can offer something different to the upscale stores. If they change it to the same as the 68 series they have defeated their purpose. The Samsung folks said the 67" was $500 more than the 61".

Well, the xx78 would still have a somwhat different frame even if the black edge were not shiny; the xx68 has a gap (it appears) between the silver speaker section and the black frame. My only desire is to be able to the 70"-er withOUT having that bloody shiny border! (In a reasonably dark room, though, I suppose it really won't 'shine'.)

The 67" is only $500 more than the 61"?--that sounds great!

Originally posted by pjr
T The Samsung folks said the 67" was $500 more than the 61".

Holy Moly! Since the MSRP of the HLR6168 is $4500 (see pg 1 of the thread), this would mean that that of the 6768 is only $5000, rather than the $6000 that has been anticipated and quoted on pg 1. Could this be correct?

Originally posted by millerwill
Holy Moly! Since the MSRP of the HLR6168 is $4500 (see pg 1 of the thread), this would mean that that of the 6768 is only $5000, rather than the $6000 that has been anticipated and quoted on pg 1. Could this be correct?

We had several people that attended the show say they were told $5,999. Please remember in the official Samsung press release the price was $6,999 (but, I think it was in error). It does appear like a BIG jump in price between the 61" and 67" even at $5,999.

Originally posted by millerwill
Well, the xx78 would still have a somwhat different frame even if the black edge were not shiny; the xx68 has a gap (it appears) between the silver speaker section and the black frame. My only desire is to be able to the 70"-er withOUT having that bloody shiny border! (In a reasonably dark room, though, I suppose it really won't 'shine'.)

I don't think the black frame would be an issue in a normal viewing environment. The shots from the show were taken with a flash at close range causing glare. In fact, the black may even work well. Many really nice highend displays have a similar bezel. I think it is great that Samsung is really offering us two different styles. Both the 78 series and 68 series have very distinctive looks.

Here are two larger, better photos of my planned installation with the 56" models. Each looks really distinctive. Notice how the black bezel is really a focal point on the 78 series.

78 series: PHOTO (http://img183.exs.cx/img183/1294/bb56web4ya.jpg)
68 series: PHOTO (http://img183.exs.cx/img183/9307/fs56web8yl.jpg)

I'm still trying to figure out which looks best in my room.

OK, UCSB, you've talked me into it: I'll go with the xx78 (shiny border and all) in order to get the 70"! Happily, your estimated MSRP for it, $6400, is a $100 less than the $6500 that was announced for the HLP6197 that has now been aborted. So that's 9" more in diag for ~ the same price--progress!

Miller I agree I really want the 70" set but don't really like the flashy 78 series bezel. I much prefer the 68" but I'd probably go for the 70 for the extra 10% of real estate.

I'm still not sure yet. The extra HDMI slot on the 78 series is tempting...but I still think I'm going with the 6168. Tried talking her into the 67" inch, but that's an uphill battle...

I also can't wait to see what this set does with D-VHS. I'm going with the Panasonic XR70/S97 receiver/upscaling dvd combo. Still deciding between the Ascends and the Rockets for speakers.

If the new 50" Kirk model is not going to be 1080p like the 56" model, what is the advantage of waiting for the new one vs. buying the HLP5085W now?

Thank you,

Mark

Originally posted by TetsujinWave
The extra HDMI slot on the 78 series is tempting...

Both the 68 and 78 series have 2 HDMI inputs ... the features are the same in both series, so you can just pick the cabinet that you liked best.

Originally posted by mshap
If the new 50" Kirk model is not going to be 1080p like the 56" model, what is the advantage of waiting for the new one vs. buying the HLP5085W now?

Thank you,

Mark

There may be some advantages and possibly some disadvantages. The advantages are the Cablecard tuners, ATSC over the air digital tuners, TV Guide support (Cablecard), and any firmware improvements to the picture or hardware upgrades.

The disadvantage (please check this) is that the current unit has a HDMI and DVI input, but we haven't confirmed the DVI connector on the new product. It may go to one or two HDMI.

We still have not confirmed the DLP chip in this model.

If you call your retailer about the new 50" please see what they have to day about delivery time ... if it has slipped I can update the info at the top of the thread.

The same Samsung lady that told me the 67" was $500 more then the 67" also told me the 67" was going to be $5000. I have not mentioned this before because there were so many posts with much higher prices. You do gets different info from about everyone you talk to there. Lets just hope she was the right one.

Sounds great! And if the 67"-er were $5000, presumably the 70"-er would be no more than $6000; would be nice if it turns out to be true (especially compared to the $13K for the Sony Qualia 70" 1080p set).

*waits impatiently for pricing*....

I hope to $diety it's not $6000 for the 67", because that's out of my price range considering I want a DVD-3910 and a StudioTech component stand (as I've run of out room)....

*tear*

- D

Thanks to everyone who has provided all this information about Samsung's new DLP products for 2005. I've been eyeing the HLP5674W for a coupla months at my local Tweeter, but decided that I'd wait for the never-to-be-produced HLP5677W because I want a CableCard interface. Now, it looks like I'll have to wait for the HLR5668W.

In my opinion, the thin-bezel cabinet was among the best features of the HLPxx74W series, and the Tweeter guy told me they sell a ton of 'em because people love that thin bezel. I'm really disappointed that Samsung has decided to "fatten-up" the bezel on the 2005 models, and I'm even more disappointed with the hideous black-laquer bezel on the so-called high-end models.

Based on the comments I've seen in this thread, the new plain-jane 68 series will be more sought after than the black-laquer 78 series. And Samsung's high-end dealers won't be pleased when their customers find out they can buy 78-series technology in a more attractive 68-series cabinet at Best Buy or Circuit City.

Exit32: I agree with your opinion on the 'black lacquer' border on the xx78 model (though it may not be so bad without much light in the room), but I have to disagree re the 'thin bezel'; I currently have a hlp6163 and think the thick black border sets off the screen much better than the thin silver bezel. But everybody has their own esthetic preferences, and if space is a criterion, then I certainly see the pros of the thin frame. The only drawback I see to the xx68 'floating screen' design is that is does make the base below the screen somewhat 'busier'. (Or maybe I'm just trying to talk myself into the xx78 format since I want the 70" set!)

Assuming the MSRP for the HLR6168 is correctly pegged at $4499, does anybody think that it will go for less than $4K at a B&M? How 'bout at an on-line dealer (TVA)? My self-imposed ceiling is 4K, and I'm not sure what the usual discounts turn out to be.

Probably a good place to look at what prices do is to go to Nextag (http://www.nextag.com/Samsung_HLP5685W~64384311z5znz500159zz1z500159zzmainz2-htm) an look at their price history chart. The link is for the HLP5685. What typically happens is that there is an opening discount to get a buzz going, price then goes back up to MSRP for a while and then trails off to some baseline price (after several months). You can look at various models to get an idea of what happens.

Ok.. US. That is absolutely hilarious that you would cut and past the photo into your shelving system. I thought I over analyzed things.

Stephen

PS. You should work on the shadows, they are not exact.

Can anyone tell whether the distance--from the bottom of the screen to the bottom of the set--is the same or not for the xx68 and xx78 sets? It looks to me that it is larger for the xx68 sets--because of the 'gap'--than it is for the xx78 sets. Boy, it really would be nice (for making plans for a stand height, width, etc.) to have the overal dimensions of the 6768 and 7978 sets!!

Originally posted by stepmback
Ok.. US. That is absolutely hilarious that you would cut and past the photo into your shelving system. I thought I over analyzed things.

Stephen

PS. You should work on the shadows, they are not exact.

Thanks ... I think. Hey, it's a hobby over analyzing is half the fun!

Thanks to all involved for the first post to this thread and to all those who have contributed to the forums. I have been debating with myself the merits of the different technologies and have vacilated back and forth between DLP and Plasma. I suffer from LCD SDE and have yet to find a LCD that didn't appear washed out/too bright or suffer SDE from what I would consider a reasonable viewing distance.

Based on this thread, I think I am now leaning towards a Sammy DLP. It just means that I have to wait until July (at the earliest). But, I have a feeling it will be worth it.

My current dilemna is whether to try to squeeze a 56" into my viewing space or just go with the 50". I will be sitting approximately 8-10 fee from the screen. Also, it will be sitting on a 30" stand. My couch is pretty high, so I am not too worried about the angle. My big concern is whether SD broadcasts on the 56" will be too painful an experience . . . .

Thanks again for the effort that went into this thread. Very, very valuable.

Originally posted by millerwill
Can anyone tell whether the distance--from the bottom of the screen to the bottom of the set--is the same or not for the xx68 and xx78 sets? It looks to me that it is larger for the xx68 sets--because of the 'gap'--than it is for the xx78 sets. Boy, it really would be nice (for making plans for a stand height, width, etc.) to have the overal dimensions of the 6768 and 7078 sets!!

The one stat we have on the new sets is on 6768 Width: 62.25". By over analyzing :D two identically sized photos (68/78 series) in Photoshop with a grid overlay I can confirm that the distance from the bottom of the screen to the bottom of the set is identical between the 68 and 78 series. One point to consider ... you said earlier that you thought the 68 series bottom was busier than on the 78 series. I've been studying my photos and this is my take ... the silver portion on the 68 series is narrower and that coupled with the empty space and dark grey floating screen adds up to a much more subtle bottom to the set.

In my continuing search for new information on the chips that will be used in the DLP sets, I have come across the second reference to the xHD4 chip. This company Digital Video Labs Inc (http://www.dvlx.com/productsOEM.html) apparently make subsystems such as formatter boards. They make reference to HD2, HD3, xHD3, HD4, xHD4 DLP™ Formatter Boards. For those who are interested the first reference to the xHD4 was by Zeiss on this web page: Digital Projection TV (http://www.zeiss-sportsoptics.de/C12567BE0045DA85/ContentsWWWIntern/93D3E1D2AF354CC9C1256F01003D6DF4)

Still no real information, but apparently there is a second generation xHDx chip and two companies that didn't get the memo.

UCSB: Thanks for your efforts; I too am hooked on 'over analyzing'--and it is fun!

Yes, the 'floating screen' is rather elegant; I guess I'm trying to see if I can work up some enthusiasm for the xx78 format because of the 70" size. I'll just have to look at them at Mag HiFi as soon as they come out.

The other very interesting thing the lady at Samsung CES said was they learned their lesson last time about going way past their promised delivery date and we might be very pleasantly surprised this time. Again, I hope she knew what she was talking about.

Originally posted by UCSB
The one stat we have on the new sets is on 6768 Width: 62.25". By over analyzing :D two identically sized photos (68/78 series) in Photoshop with a grid overlay I can confirm that the distance from the bottom of the screen to the bottom of the set is identical between the 68 and 78 series.

UCSB: Can you make a semi-quantitative estimate of this height--from the bottom of the screen to the bottom of the set--from your Photoshop overlay (for the 6768 and 7078)?

Originally posted by millerwill
UCSB: Can you make a semi-quantitative estimate of this height--from the bottom of the screen to the bottom of the set--from your Photoshop overlay (for the 6768 and 7078)?

I'm getting around 9" on the 6768 based on a reported width of 62.25".

Originally posted by Daphoid
[BI want a ... a StudioTech component stand ...
- D [/B]

I have a StudioTech cabinet on one of my home theater setups (I have 3 HT's). It is really nicely made. Very heavy, high quality construction, nice materials. Everything fits together perfectly.

Originally posted by UCSB
I'm getting around 9" on the 6768 based on a reported width of 62.25".

OK, with your value of 9" (from bottom of set to bottom of screen): since the height of a 67" screen is 32.8", for the center of the screen to be at eye level (39"), the height of the stand should be 39" - 9" - 32.8"/2 = ~13.5". This could, of course, be a few inches higher without any problem. Sounds to me like Ikea's Oppli stand (15 3/4" high--or 13.5" if one uses Teflon slides on the bottom rather than the coasters that come with it) will be ideal; the set will extend a couple of inches beyond the left and right ends of the stand (which is 59" wide), but that shouldn't hurt. (A 70" set will change this result by less than 1", provided your value of 9" is about the same.)

Just when I thought I was not interested in DLP this thread captured my interest and may have pulled me back in again. I originally gave up on DLP right about when the 74 series issues became the talk - I reluctantly revisited LCD and crossed the line to compare and choose between Sony (XBR, 955) and Hitachi (915).

After reading through nearly all of this thread I am wanting to revisit DLP (Samsung 56" 68 or 78 series) - a number of posters have provided praise-worthy feedback and real good information on their observations (CES 2005) of these new Samsung series - it sound like the PQ issues that turned me off about DLP before may have been addressed - could this really be? Iwas also impressed that Steve Panosian has proven to be approachable & responsive to this thread's attempts to get clarification on the new Samsung product line (good PR & customer relations for what may prove to be a real good new product line).

I will use my set in Massachusetts primarily for DVD viewing and some sporting events (baseball, Olmypics etc.) and, along with the new HDTV, plan on purchasing a new DVD player (w/ HDMI) - I'll wait on the accompanying sound system. Any thoughts/suggestions?

Thanks to all you folks for contributing to this thread and knowledge base - it continues to be of vital importance to me in my understanding of the swift moving HDTV technology and my purchasing decisions.

It seems that we have now entered that 'silly period', where there is a dearth of any new information, and all we can do is wait and speculate. Very frustrating. The tiniest amount of new data about the xx68's and xx78's would cause a frenzy of comments going back and forth, but until then, ... .

Originally posted by UCSB


If you call your retailer about the new 50" please see what they have to day about delivery time ... if it has slipped I can update the info at the top of the thread.

I went to the Tweeter close to where I live. They did not have a firm date, but they said "this spring".

Originally posted by mshap
I went to the Tweeter close to where I live. They did not have a firm date, but they said "this spring".

I called about the 5688 at Magnolia and was told April ... so it looks like the 87 and 88 have both moved back. I don't know ... is it only me ... or wouldn't you expect a press release in Jan for a Feb release to be accurate!

I think I have finally found some real information on 2005 Samsung sets. On the FCC site they have released information on the new Samsung Plasma set HPR4272. This link is to the Owners Manual (https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=509624&native_or_pdf=pdf) for the set. It describes the inputs to the set: HDMI, PC, 1394 etc. At least this will give us an idea of what to expect from the DLP sets (I am presuming that input/output will be similar between lines). The Samsung press announcement for the Plasma sets talked about a May release for this set.

Hopefully we will see the same information for the DLP sets soon.

The most frustrating part for me is having to wait for the new 68/78 models. Its only January - and I was about to pull the trigger on a 5685. :-(

Now, I feel like I MUST wait for the 6168.

Will the 70" be available in both the 68 and 78 series?

The 70" 1080p DLP, should it be offered as a production model, will only be in the 78 series. Model number HL-R7078.

Ok guys I need some outside Opinions.

http://www.cerdonis.com/tmp/room2004/axiom3.jpg

Here's "the space"... As you can see it's currently occupied by a 24" CRT and a bunch of other junk... Along with switching that stand on the left for a new StudioTech stand, and adding in a Scientific Atlantic 8000HD (maybe 8300HD), and a DVD-3910, the main focus is that hole at the moment...

I've measured, and it's 63 maybe 63.25" wide.. so going with the 62.25" width of the 6768... I know it won't be as tall as the hole, so do you think there'll be enough room for air to move around? the air should just reflect off the back wall, and after all heat rises so it should just flow out the front?

Anyone else have their TV shoved in a tight space?

Just looking for some insight here... oh and yes it'll be sitting flat on the shelf, that's a nive veenered piece of wood in the bottom.

- D

Originally posted by Daphoid
Ok guys I need some outside Opinions.

Anyone else have their TV shoved in a tight space?

Just looking for some insight here... oh and yes it'll be sitting flat on the shelf, that's a nive veenered piece of wood in the bottom.

- D

What will be the opening at the top and how much gap at the rear?

As long at the heat has a way to rise out of the cavity, you should be fine.

What is on the back side of the wall? Can create vents out of the cavity?

Originally posted by Daphoid
Just looking for some insight here...
- D

I don't know how big your room is ... but ... buying the StudioTech cabinet is going to be expensive $600 - $800 and you are still just going to have a box sitting off the the side of your installation. I'd put the money into the stock Samsung stand (or other highend stand) and seal up the opening in the wall. On a 61" or 67" all of your components should fit in the stand (or you could put doors on the opening and create some additional storage back there for components that you don't want up front). IMHO, I think you would get a much more streamlined, sophisticated look.

I have to admit, I'm not a big fan of basement installations. Why not consider putting your new HDTV in your living room or in a main activity area within your house. I implemented this by making my cabinet the center of a multiroom system that distributes AV to my gym, office, and kitchen, in addition to the family room where the cabinet and HDTV is located.

Daphoid: Your space should be fine for the 6768. You might even have room to mount a center speaker on the top.

Bill:

Keep in mind this is my BEDROOM, not my just my HT :) My computer, dresser, and bed, are also in here... I just have a really big room ^_^.

As for putting it upstairs? I'm only 21 here you guys, this is my parents house, but MY TV :).

As for the Stand Idea, I don't think so. That hole (and the box that is inside of it) was hand built by my father. This room was originally a recroom, and filling up that hole would be like asking you guys to give up your HDTV... Jeez, he even hand stained that board, did all the drywall, helped me run all my speaker wire... You see where I'm going with this?

As for the studiotech stand, it's $350 USD, has six shelves, and can hold all my current components, plus the incoming cable box, and still have a free slot for say a amp if I ever get a bigger room.

I don't mean to come across as "I hate your ideas!", I'm just trying to show that, filling in that "hole" is a little more complex then that.

Now as for the depth? the shelf is 37" (or 3.1 ft) deep. It's about 47" (almost 4ft) tall... so however tall the TV is, there will be a gap at the top of the TV... As for vents, only if you think it's neccessary, I'd need something discrete and nice looking, don't want to put too many holes in that drywall.

And yes I know you're probably thinking "what, this is his BEDROOM!?" well yes it is, You see my younger sister (15) had a 8' x 10' room on the main floor, and compared to the two rooms down here (11' x 12') she always complained about it being cramped. So my other younger sister (19) went off to university this fall, but didn't want to give up her room if she ever came home. So, as you may have guessed, I gave her my room and took over this space, being 20' x 14', I have a very large room, but yes I do have a closet (converted storage area), computer, couch, and my bed in the corner... I just have enough room for the HT stuff. Now there you have lots of back story... Was anyone even interested? I don't know...

Cheers!

- D

Originally posted by millerwill
Daphoid: Your space should be fine for the 6768. You might even have room to mount a center speaker on the top.

I doubt it, and that's a 17 lb center channel anyways, I'd be paranoid putting that on top of the TV... It actually sounds quite nice up there mounted on that custom bracket (made by Axiom, the speaker company)... Good thought though! I'm still curious about heat though... yet I've seen others with there TV's in shelves and such... and like I said about, the space is 3.1 ft deep.

- D

D - OK, now I understand what you are trying to do. Here's a shot of what your installation will look like. Look's nice. And you have good clearance on the top for ventilation, but not enough to look out of place. My compliments to your Dad ... it is clear that he put in a big effort to help to get this together. I hope you let them come down and watch a few movies :D .

http://img173.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img173&image=d21op.jpg

Nice picture, UCSB! And I'm sure one could remove that small base 'foot' so that the bottom would sit flush down.

;_;

Today is a sad day, I have DAF (Dad Approval Factor) restraints... He doesn't like the fact that there'll be 0.375" of an inch on either side of the TV... "How would we get it in there?" ... "and how would we get at it?"....

So I've been told to go smaller..... Looks like 61" instead of 67" for me...

I guess now I can choose between 68 and 78 right? awwe crap! I can't decide, they're both nice... Probably 68 cause it's cheaper....

damnit.

- D

How are you going to get to the back to hook up everything and where are you going to run the wires? Is there something behind the opening where you could make a hole to run wires and access the back of the TV? edit
I got called away for a few minutes in the middle of writing before you posted. The 61" looked great at CES also. At least they have a 61" coming out since the current 2+ line only goes to 56".

behind that box (and wall) is the other half of this part of the basement, my dad's workshop. Yes, my component video cable (a BEAST of a cable), coax cable, network, phone, center channel, right front channel, all run behind that wall (it was deliciously easy to run cables...)

So the 61" should be good, give a little more space too.

- D

Originally posted by Daphoid
I doubt it, and that's a 17 lb center channel anyways, I'd be paranoid putting that on top of the TV... It actually sounds quite nice up there mounted on that custom bracket (made by Axiom, the speaker company)... Good thought though! I'm still curious about heat though... yet I've seen others with there TV's in shelves and such... and like I said about, the space is 3.1 ft deep.

- D




Bastard!!!!! And I mean that in the most jealous sort of way!:D Be prepared to flee quickly (2 sisters? uh oh! :D ) Dlp is good, lightweight and easy to carry.:D The space your dad carved out is meant for TUBE in a grand way. A 36" to 40"+ tube will give you the absolute best picture. Not easily moved however. (2 sisters, RUN:p ) When are you getting married????:D Tube is also cheaper nowadays. I love the dlp's and am waiting for my almost perfect set, but back to you (It's always you isn't it!!!) 2 sisters, RUN:D .
Only issue I see is running cord to equiptment from your chosen monitor. Say thank you to dad for being ahead of his time!:D

Cord is easy, as the components sit right next to it, and I have a clear path to it (through the wall anyways)...

and for geek factor, I'm getting a 128MB PCI video card, and a DVI - HDMI cable from BlueJeansCable, and running 1980x1080 on that baby!

FEAR.

- D

is samsung doing away with the 46" that will fit in my cabinet or do i need to buy the hlp4674

Originally posted by blakethesnake
is samsung doing away with the 46" that will fit in my cabinet or do i need to buy the hlp4674

The thin bezel HLPxx74W's are being phased out in March or April. There is only one 46" set in the 2005 product line it is the HLR4667W. You can read about it in the first post in this thread under 720p models.

The thin bezel case is not going to be offered in the 2005 models.

Daphoid,

With the space you have above and behind the TV, don't worry about space on the side for cooling. The Samsung sets draw cool air from the front and exhaust hot air to the back. In your setup, the hot air will rise and escape above the TV. If it fits, and you have adequate viewing distance, I think you should go for the 67" model. As for access, how does the 61" (3" per side) allow for it where the 67" (3/8" per side) does not? Either way, you have to pull the set out to connect cables.

I can't wait until I have to make a decision between the 50" and 56" sets. Or at least that was the case until I realized that I would likely be using my Bello 2103 stand <URL=http://www.bello.com/AV/egearreview.asp]Bello 2103 Review[/URL]> for the television (it is only 43 inches wide).

Any thoughts on whether the stand could handle the 50"? It's not a wait issue (it is already carrying a tube that weighs close to 150 pounds. It's a distribution issue . . . . Because it is only 43" wide, I think the 56" set is out . . . .

Originally posted by Ed_Newt
I can't wait until I have to make a decision between the 50" and 56" sets. Or at least that was the case until I realized that I would likely be using my Bello 2103 stand <URL=http://www.bello.com/AV/egearreview.asp]Bello 2103 Review[/URL]> for the television (it is only 43 inches wide).

Any thoughts on whether the stand could handle the 50"? It's not a wait issue (it is already carrying a tube that weighs close to 150 pounds. It's a distribution issue . . . . Because it is only 43" wide, I think the 56" set is out . . . .

Just buy a bigger piece of glass for the top and go with what every size HDTV you want. It would be very inexpensive. Worst case ... just replace the stand with one that works best with the new HDTV.

Originally posted by UCSB
Just buy a bigger piece of glass for the top and go with what every size HDTV you want. It would be very inexpensive. Worst case ... just replace the stand with one that works best with the new HDTV.

All of that just sounds way too easy. ;)

I need to remeasure the space anyway -- its positioned in a media alcove (sp?) and the 56" is pushing it width wise there. I would likely have to have the first inch of it stick out from the alcove (similar to the pictures from CES) anyway. I actually don't think that is a bad look, but . . . .

Frankly, I am a bit upset that I found this wonderful thread so early in 2005(I had been looking at plasmas) because the wait is going to feel soooooo long. Then again, if I hadn't I might have purchased a lesser product in the meantime.

Thanks again for contributing to this thread and this forum. It is much appreciated.

Will the 78 series only be distributed through brick and mortar stores or will internet dealers such as the forum's TV Authority be allowed to sell them?

The "Coming Soon" section of TVAuthority does not show the 78 series. Only the 68 series appears (as of now).

Originally posted by Daphoid
;_;

Today is a sad day, I have DAF (Dad Approval Factor) restraints... He doesn't like the fact that there'll be 0.375" of an inch on either side of the TV... "How would we get it in there?" ... "and how would we get at it?"....

So I've been told to go smaller..... Looks like 61" instead of 67" for me...

I guess now I can choose between 68 and 78 right? awwe crap! I can't decide, they're both nice... Probably 68 cause it's cheaper....

damnit.

- D

Daphoid,

Nice setup!
Go for the 67" !!! :) Remember, these TV's are light. You'll just have to lift it into the opening somewhat rotated and then straighten it out. It will be much easier than you think. As for the center channel, maybe you could ask your dad to build a shelf that only goes part of the way back (assuming you have the room for the speaker in the opening). When you need to get to the TV the shelf would just lift out. I have a custom built entertainment center that works like that (but unfortunately the opening is only large enough for the 46" models :( )
Be sure to show us pics of your progress :D

-Jeff

Here I go again!!! Samsung is picking up my second HLP6163 on Feb 15th and giving me a full refund...I can't believe I had 2 really bad ones. Now I have to choose between a HLR6168 or HLR6768...Does anyone think TVA will offer a Powerbuy as they did with my 63 series or does anyone think the prices will be a lot lower than MSRP. I would love to have the 67" but for $6999 when a 61" is $4499...$2500 more...Ouch! Any thoughts!

Originally posted by jwv651
I would love to have the 67" but for $6999 when a 61" is $4499...$2500 more...Ouch! Any thoughts!

We have had several show attendees say they were told the MSRP for the 67" is going to be $5,999. PJR (I think, sorry if I'm wrong on that) has said he talked to a Samsung Rep at the show and was told $5,000. While that is possible, being $500 more than the 61", it is our only report of a $5,000 price. The $6,999 number was from the official Samsung press release and I think it is wrong. I'm going to stick with the $5,999 number until we get another statement from Samsung.

Originally posted by MJConnel
Daphoid,

With the space you have above and behind the TV, don't worry about space on the side for cooling. The Samsung sets draw cool air from the front and exhaust hot air to the back. In your setup, the hot air will rise and escape above the TV. If it fits, and you have adequate viewing distance, I think you should go for the 67" model. As for access, how does the 61" (3" per side) allow for it where the 67" (3/8" per side) does not? Either way, you have to pull the set out to connect cables.

Don't tempt me!!

I'm just trying to figure out how I'd take it out of the hole, plug cables in, and put it back in again... Becaue the hole *is* 3 feet deep, I wouldn't have tons of cable length I don't think.. so I'd have to take it out, hold it, or sit it on something? Do you think a chair would be ok temporarily (if someone was watching it...

Hrm....

- D

Originally posted by UCSB
We have had several show attendees say they were told the MSRP for the 67" is going to be $5,999. PJR (I think, sorry if I'm wrong on that) has said he talked to a Samsung Rep at the show and was told $5,000. While that is possible, being $500 more than the 61", it is our only report of a $5,000 price. The $6,999 number was from the official Samsung press release and I think it is wrong. I'm going to stick with the $5,999 number until we get another statement from Samsung. Under $5000 would be a done deal here...I can wish can't I

I think UCSB is probably about right with an estimated MSRP of $6000 for the 6768, and $6500 for the 7078. This is really pretty good, when one remembers that the MSRP projected for the hlp6197 (the 1080p unit that never materialized) was $6500. And one should be able to negotiate 10% or better than this when it gets down to really buying one. (TVA's power buy for the hlp's was about 20% below the MSRP's.)

Ok. Just as I was settling upon the 61" Sammy HL-P6163W, here I stumble upon all this HLR information (which I could only get through half of). Great. Now I want to wait for June for the HLR6178W.

But I'm also planning on a projector for my computer room. Over at projectorcentral.com, I just read a good recent article on the question of "what is true HDTV anyway?".

http://www.projectorcentral.com./true_hdtv.htm


They put the following quite simply:

"...Some people think that the only real, legitimate HDTV format is 1080i because it has the highest physical resolution. So they refer to 1920x1080 as true HDTV. Others have been calling 1080i "full HDTV," presumably to distinguish it from the less full 1280x720.

Fans of the 720p format object to this. They point out that progressive scanning produces a cleaner, higher resolution signal when the subject is in fast motion. It has no deinterlacing fuzziness. And since the 1080i camera captures only 540 lines at a time, the actual resolution of 1080i when the subject is in motion is only 540 lines, not 1080. So many folks think 720p is better for rapid motion sports like football and soccer, while 1080i is better for, say, golf, where people are just basically standing around..."


So I sit back and say, "Hmmm." Well. Why not just be satisfied with a 720p set with a cheaper price --- and that I can have now? 1080i (it seems as stated in this thread) will be as good as it gets on the new HLR line & HD DVD players - no 1080p.

It seems to me that 1080i and 720p trade off strengths and weaknesses. So is it worth putting all your faith (and paychecks) in the one with the bigger number? It was my first impulse...but now I am not so sure.

Thoughts?

But if you're de-interlacing the 1080i, it would be true 1080p, right? So you're getting the best of both worlds, the p and the 1080.

I'm new to this though, so please forgive me if I'm mistaken.

Originally posted by millerwill
I think UCSB is probably about right with an estimated MSRP of $6000 for the 6768, and $6500 for the 7078. This is really pretty good, when one remembers that the MSRP projected for the hlp6197 (the 1080p unit that never materialized) was $6500. And one should be able to negotiate 10% or better than this when it gets down to really buying one. (TVA's power buy for the hlp's was about 20% below the MSRP's.)

I don't care about the +60" models anyway, if I get one of these it will either be 50" or 56" that's about all I can fit in my room. My previous TV was a 50" Sony GWIII and it just barely fit, but I think I could get the 56" Samsung to fit since there's no side-speakers.
Besides, it doesn't look like there's a 50" model in the 68 line, only the 78.
And why would I want to get a 50" 78 when I could get a 56" 68 for nearly the same price.

I just remeasured my space, and it looks like I tap out at about the 50" -- If I moved to 56", the screen would have to come about six inches outside of the media niche and it would just look silly. As it is, the 5078 is 46.5" wide and the media niche taps out at 46" even. So, I would definitely have to have the screen stick out about an inch -- which I am ok with. The pics from CES don't look half bad that way.

My question for the community is this: unless I missed it reading through this thread, I am not sure where people get the impression that the 5078 is going to be more expensive than the 5668? The estimated MSRPs in the first post don't support that. Is it that the 78 series is only sold through B&M and the 68 will be available at big-box and Internet dealers? Thanks.

Having my computer at 1980x1080 vs, 1280x720 is one of the biggest reasons to wait :D

And I hate you guys, making me think about the 67" again

- D

You know we only do it for your own good. :)

As far as using a chair to support the set, I don't think that would be a good idea (disaster waiting to happen). I suggest using two chairs with a couple boards between them, or two stacks of sturdy milk crates.

To maximize available cable length when attaching to the set, I suggest leaving the component end of your cables just on the opposite side of the wall, in the workshop. Once the set is in place, you can then feed the free end through the wall behind your equipment.

Originally posted by ][udson

So I sit back and say, "Hmmm." Well. Why not just be satisfied with a 720p set with a cheaper price --- and that I can have now? 1080i (it seems as stated in this thread) will be as good as it gets on the new HLR line & HD DVD players - no 1080p.

It seems to me that 1080i and 720p trade off strengths and weaknesses. So is it worth putting all your faith (and paychecks) in the one with the bigger number? It was my first impulse...but now I am not so sure.

Thoughts?

I think you should consider the format that carries the most content that interests you:

ABC, FOX, ESPN-HD = 720p (although I thought I saw that ESPN-HD was broadcasting some shows in 1080i)

Everyone else (and HD-DVD/Blu-Ray) = 1080i (which will convert to 1080p (24 or 30fps) if it was produced on film).

I personally could not sleep at night knowing that I had bought a 720p display, when most of what I wanted to watch was 1080 content, meaning that it was being scaled down; the scaling process from 1080 to 720p will result in less picture fidelity than something that was natively produced in 720p.

-jeff

Originally posted by jgrin

I personally could not sleep at night knowing that I had bought a 720p display, when most of what I wanted to watch was 1080 content, meaning that it was being scaled down; the scaling process from 1080 to 720p will result in less picture fidelity than something that was natively produced in 720p.

-jeff [/B]


Yeah I do have to consider all that. But remember that it goes the other way too, right - upscaling from 720p to 1080i can't be ideal either. I am just confused over what the best option is. I bet 720p on the Samsung I mentioned, scaled or not, is going to absolutely blow away the SD I've been watching for so long. I don't think 1080i will look too shabby on it. How could it?

I guess I will just have to stay (get) informed and wait a little. I'll take the plunge on my Sony VPL HS51 projector first. Maybe after a couple of months on that, I will be ready to decide on the TV and what option is best for me.

I am looking forward to other opinions on this. It's one thing to have a whole thread detailing the 1080i technology, but it's another to fully understand what you're waiting and paying for, and to have a good perspective on things. After all, who knows what is going to come beyond the first generation of 1080i sets. It's like anything else, you could wait, then choose to wait again, buy something, and still feel it's outdated 6 months later...

][udson

I notice that none of the new DLP sets will have a center channel shelf on the top. Does anyone know of any shelf adaptors or ways to create a center channel shelf so we can still keep our speaker on top of the set? I suppose I could put the center channel in the stand underneath the set or in front of the set but I'm not sure if it would sound the same.

MOUNT IT ON THE WALL :D

That's what I did, it's such a beast anyways, I've never received bad comments about it, I guess it helps that my surrounds are ceiling mounted.

- D

Originally posted by pc41
I notice that none of the new DLP sets will have a center channel shelf on the top. Does anyone know of any shelf adaptors or ways to create a center channel shelf so we can still keep our speaker on top of the set? I suppose I could put the center channel in the stand underneath the set or in front of the set but I'm not sure if it would sound the same.

I do have my center speaker (Infinity Primus c25, about 17 lbs I think) mounted on the top of my hlp6163, and it works quite well. I've described this is several places, so here it is again:
using industrial strength velcroe (from Home Depot), I stick a ~10" strip of velcro along the bottom front edge of the speaker, and stick a similar strip down of the top of the tv (tv and velcro strips are about 2" wide). I then lower the speaker onto the velcro on the top of the tv. The back of the speaker is supported by a wooden stick (about 1/4" thick, 2" wide, and 5 to 6" long). The top end of the stick is also attached to the bottom of the speaker with velcro: a small strip near the back of the bottom of the speaker, and a small strip stuck around the end of the stick (so that it won't slide). And the bottom of the stick is braced on the small plastic protusion on the back side of the tv cabinet; if it weren't there, I would stick a strip of velcro down the back of the cabinet and secure the bottom of the stick to it.

It's all much simpler to do than it is to describe, and there are obviously variations on the idea (which I pieced together from various discussions in the AVS forum). I suppose there are limits to the weight of center speaker one would want to attach this way, but it wants fine for mine. And having the center speaker out in the open like this really does allow it to sound better.

Originally posted by millerwill
I do have my center speaker (Infinity Primus c25, about 17 lbs I think) mounted on the top of my hlp6163, and it works quite well. I've described this is several places, so here it is again:
using industrial strength velcroe (from Home Depot), I stick a ~10" strip of velcro along the bottom front edge of the speaker, and stick a similar strip down of the top of the tv (tv and velcro strips are about 2" wide). I then lower the speaker onto the velcro on the top of the tv. The back of the speaker is supported by a wooden stick (about 1/4" thick, 2" wide, and 5 to 6" long). The top end of the stick is also attached to the bottom of the speaker with velcro: a small strip near the back of the bottom of the speaker, and a small strip stuck around the end of the stick (so that it won't slide). And the bottom of the stick is braced on the small plastic protusion on the back side of the tv cabinet; if it weren't there, I would stick a strip of velcro down the back of the cabinet and secure the bottom of the stick to it.

It's all much simpler to do than it is to describe, and there are obviously variations on the idea (which I pieced together from various discussions in the AVS forum). I suppose there are limits to the weight of center speaker one would want to attach this way, but it wants fine for mine. And having the center speaker out in the open like this really does allow it to sound better.
Hey Millerwill,
I caught this description the last time you posted it (in this thread maybe?), and a thought came to mind then as well: If the cross section of the stick is essentially 1/4 " X 2", that seems like it would be a very small sliver of velcro that you're trusting to hold up the speaker. Am I reading you correctly? Seems like it would be better to slap the velcro on the flat side of the stick, and then stick it to the back panel of the speaker, where there is lots of surface area for both pieces of the velcro. As we're both in earthquake country, I'm always looking to overengineer this kind of stuff anyway.
Chris

Originally posted by CSonntag
Hey Millerwill,
I caught this description the last time you posted it (in this thread maybe?), and a thought came to mind then as well: If the cross section of the stick is essentially 1/4 " X 2", that seems like it would be a very small sliver of velcro that you're trusting to hold up the speaker. Am I reading you correctly? Seems like it would be better to slap the velcro on the flat side of the stick, and then stick it to the back panel of the speaker, where there is lots of surface area for both pieces of the velcro. As we're both in earthquake country, I'm always looking to overengineer this kind of stuff anyway.
Chris

You could certainly try it that way. But the stick--and it can be thicker if you think the wt of the speaker requires it--hits the bottom of the speaker almost perpendicularly, which gives very stable support and also has little chance of slipping (this heavy-duty velcro is amazing!). The bottom of the stick is the tricker part, since the back of the tv cabinet slopes very steeply. For the hllp6163 there is a plastic protrusion at just about the perfect place to form a brace for the bottom of the stick. But if it weren't there, I'm sure one could attach something there to stabilize the bottom of the support stick. Yes, if we have a 9.0 quake, I'm sure it will fall, but that will be the least of my worries! And it seems pretty stable for minor giggles.

PS I wrap a ~ 4" strip of velcro around the top end of the stick; it is securely there, even though only the 'sharp' end of the stick touches the bottom of the speaker.

velcro is all nice, but it's teh adhesive on the other side of the velro, thats sticking to my TV cabinet and speaker finish.....that makes me cringe.

Originally posted by Daphoid
velcro is all nice, but it's teh adhesive on the other side of the velro, thats sticking to my TV cabinet and speaker finish.....that makes me cringe.

I have re-positioned the velcro on the bottom of the center speaker (so that it protuded a bit over the front of the tv), and by pulling slowly and firmly, it comes up with not a trace, and no sticky residue. Same for the surface of the tv.

I've been pulling together some notes on HD content. I thought others might be interested. So here is what I have right now.

HD Content

My Comcast cable line-up:

ABC – 720p
CBS – 1080i
NBC – 1080i
PBS – 1080i
Discovery HD – 1080i
INHD – 1080i
INHD2 – 1080i
ESPN – 720p (1080p in future)

HBO – 1080i
Starz! HD – 1080i
Showtime – 1080i
Cinemax HD – 1080i


Other networks:

WB – 1080i
UPN – 1080i
Paramount HDMovies – 1080i
FOX – 720p
HDNet – 1080i
HDNet Movies – 1080i
ESPN2 – 720p
Move Channel HD – 1080i
Playboy – 1080i
Spice – 1080i
NBA HDTV – 1080i
Bravo HD – 1080i


Other Providers:

Dish Network – 720p, 1080i
DirectTV – 720p, 1080i
Voom – 1080i


Source (http://hdtvtechno.netfirms.com/)

Originally posted by ][udson
It seems to me that 1080i and 720p trade off strengths and weaknesses. So is it worth putting all your faith (and paychecks) in the one with the bigger number? It was my first impulse...but now I am not so sure.

Thoughts?

I would expect that the new 1080p sets will handle 720p as well as a 720p HDTV. In addition, they should handle 1080i better than a 1080i HDTV because the signal will be converted to 1080p. I don't think a 1080p buyer needs to worry about any 720p or 1080i trade-offs.

I found this screen size, viewing distance calculator. It is more oriented toward people trying to duplicate the real theater experience. People considering the 67" and 70" sets might want to see how their setups compare to these official THX theater guidelines.

http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html#anchor_13194

FYI --- I don't think most of us are trying to build this type of installation.

Originally posted by ][udson
So I sit back and say, "Hmmm." Well. Why not just be satisfied with a 720p set with a cheaper price --- and that I can have now? 1080i (it seems as stated in this thread) will be as good as it gets on the new HLR line & HD DVD players - no 1080p.

It seems to me that 1080i and 720p trade off strengths and weaknesses. So is it worth putting all your faith (and paychecks) in the one with the bigger number? It was my first impulse...but now I am not so sure.

Thoughts?
Here is another way to look at it....

Higher resolution sources generally will look better on higher resolving displays. But the fudge factor is the screen size and how far away you sit from it. For example, you probably aren't going to notice a whole lot of difference between a 1080p capable display and one limited to 720p on a 50" screen if you were to watch both from 20 feet away.

Also, broadcast HD and that obtained from satellite and cable aren't the best they can be. For that you need either D-VHS D-Theater or will have to wait for HD optical disc. The quality of the picture you see will depend greatly on the sources you watch. While I generally prefer 1080i over 720p because of its greater apparent horizontal resolution, I have seen some great looking 720p transfers. My D-VHS recordings of Kill Bill Vol 1&2 look very, very good even though they are 720p. In fact, they are as good if not better than many 1080i transfers I've watched.

If you can afford to wait, then I encourage you to do so. One important thing you should not overlook with these new Samsung sets is their greatly improved on/off contrast ratio. The difference between 10000:1 or even 5000:1 and 2500:1 is enormous. You will get a vastly superior picture with better blacks and more dynamic range, in addition to the higher resolution. Ordinarily I seldom suggest that people hold off on their purchases, but in this case the wait will be a few months instead of years, and the difference in performance will be well worth the wait if your budget will allow for the higher cost. If you are that budget constrained then your financial situation will dictate your choice.

I came back to a RPTV from front projection for reasons I don't want to get into. I'd love to eventually go back to front projection, but it will be quite a while before front projectors get to where I think they need to be for me to be satisfied. I do enjoy watching HDTV on my Hitachi 65" RPTV, but I am seriously considering upgrading to either the 67" or 70" (whichever actually comes to market) Samsung 1080p DLP set. The contrast ratio and resolution are where I want them to be (I won't buy any digital display with a CR of less than 5000:1), and for the first time going from a CRT RPTV to a digital set would actually be an upgrade as opposed to a lateral move. I can enjoy the Samsung for a few years until front projectors catch up. So right now I am planning on buying one of the new 1080p sets and when that happens I will move the Hitachi from my home theater room to the family room so the kids can get a nice upgrade from the 4:3 Toshiba 60" set they currently watch. I'm sure they would rather have the Greg Loewen calibrated widescreen Hitachi over the 6 year old uncalibrated 4:3 Toshiba set. Everybody wins.

--Jerome

For those of us who may decide to wait for a few more months -

what are your planning to use for components with your new Sammy?

I don't really consider the wobulated HD3 sets to be 720p, since they can't seem to resolve the sharp detail that an HD2+ set can resolve.

So I'm not sure that the wobulated 1080p displays are going to be that much better than a true 720p (HD2+) display. I'll have to wait til I see the new ones, I guess.

How many mirrors does one of the new xHD DMD's have?

Originally posted by Shape
So I'm not sure that the wobulated 1080p displays are going to be that much better than a true 720p (HD2+) display. I'll have to wait til I see the new ones, I guess.
Obviously, the proof is in the viewing. I wouldn't buy or suggest that someone buy a display they have never seen for themselves.

We'll find out soon enough if the sets live up to expectations.

--Jerome

[QUOTE]Originally posted by UCSB
I've been pulling together some notes on HD content. I thought others might be interested. So here is what I have right now.

[b]HD Content

My Comcast cable line-up:

Comcast now has Fox (KTVU in the SF bay area).

I could not find this discussed in the prior 32 pages (unless I'm blind) but...there appears to be a "lip" at the bottom of some of the photos. Is this part of the bottom of the set or the top portion of the stand? (The 56" ...68-series photos do not have it...the 61" 68-series does...er...do.)

Originally posted by millerwill
[QUOTE]Originally posted by UCSB
[B]Comcast now has Fox (KTVU in the SF bay area).

Thanks. Here's the updated list.

==================================

HD Content

My Comcast cable line-up (SF Bay Area):

ABC – 720p
CBS – 1080i
NBC – 1080i
FOX – 720p
PBS – 1080i
Discovery HD – 1080i
INHD – 1080i
INHD2 – 1080i
ESPN – 720p (1080p in future)

HBO – 1080i
Starz! HD – 1080i
Showtime – 1080i
Cinemax HD – 1080i


Other networks:

WB – 1080i
UPN – 1080i
Paramount HDMovies – 1080i
HDNet – 1080i
HDNet Movies – 1080i
ESPN2 – 720p
Move Channel HD – 1080i
Playboy – 1080i
Spice – 1080i
NBA HDTV – 1080i
Bravo HD – 1080i


Other Providers:

Dish Network – 720p, 1080i
DirectTV – 720p, 1080i
Voom – 1080i


Source (http://hdtvtechno.netfirms.com/)

Originally posted by Ed Weinman
I could not find this discussed in the prior 32 pages (unless I'm blind) but...there appears to be a "lip" at the bottom of some of the photos. Is this part of the bottom of the set or the top portion of the stand? (The 56" ...68-series photos do not have it...the 61" 68-series does...er...do.)

The little foot is for stabilization on the larger sets. It is also on the current HLPxx63W sets, but can be removed. It is believed that it may be removable on the new sets.

Thanks, UCSB. The sets just seem to be more attractive without...

Originally posted by millerwill
I have re-positioned the velcro on the bottom of the center speaker (so that it protuded a bit over the front of the tv), and by pulling slowly and firmly, it comes up with not a trace, and no sticky residue. Same for the surface of the tv.

Time and temperature are likely to change this.

Originally posted by Ed Weinman
Thanks, UCSB. The sets just seem to be more attractive without...

Yes, I agree. I have a hlp6163 that has the stabilizing 'foot' but removed it--trivial, just 10 screws. And it looks better, and I also find it more stable on a flat surface.

Originally posted by falsedawn
Time and temperature are likely to change this.

You may be right. Mine has been set up this way ~ 6 months.

Originally posted by hadleyfarm
For those of us who may decide to wait for a few more months - what are your planning to use for components with your new Sammy?

I'm going to give Samsung one more try to get a HD upshifting DVD player right ... I'll take a look at the DVD-HD950 when it comes out. The press release says May. After the delays and problems on the 941, I don't think I will wait for it beyond the arrival of the HDTV's. Plus, if they don't iron out some of the problems of the current player (green screens, no BTB (I guess this would be OK because 1080i passes BTB), settings that have to be reset after every power down, and illogical on-screen messages) then that will probably be it for Samsung DVD players, they will move off my short list.

After thinking about it a little longer, if Samsung comes up with a firmware fix (which they have said they will) for the lost settings and green screen problems, then even the Samsung DVD-HD941 would probably be a viable HD upshifting player for new 1080p HDTV's. The DVD-HD950 would be better, but the DVD-HD941 would be OK, if it doesn't arrive. This $250 - $300 player would be just fine. Who really wants to spend $600 - $1000 on a DVD player midyear, with HD-DVD in Q4 2005 and Blu-Ray in Q1 2006?

I've seen it speculated in this thread that the forthcoming 4667 might have the xHD3 chip instead of the HD3, based upon the contrast specification being 2000:1 instead of the 1500:1 spec for the 4663.

However when I looked at the 4667 specs on TVauthority, I see they have posted that the contrast ratio is 1500:1, not 2000:1. Do they know something that we don't?

The xx67 series sets are 720p machines, and thus will have the HD3 or perhaps the ungraded version that some people are calling the HD4. The xHD3 (and xHD4) is a 1080p chip.

Okay, that was what I had intended to write. That people here have conjectured that the x67 would have the HD4, because of the higher contrast ratio. But now, TVA is stating that they will have the same contrast ratio as the x63.

Originally posted by Tom_Bombadil
Okay, that was what I had intended to write. That people here have conjectured that the x67 would have the HD4, because of the higher contrast ratio. But now, TVA is stating that they will have the same contrast ratio as the x63.

Hi Tom ... the most current and update info on the 2005 Samsung models is in Post #1 that started this thread. It is the first post on the first page of this thread. I am keeping it up-to-date as new info surfaces. If you check under the HLRxx67W area (720p area), you will find that we have a photo of the card describing the HLR4667W at CES 2005. That card clearly states 2000:1 as the contrast ratio. This is inline with other announced HD4 products at the show. Here's the link to the card:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4972995&fullpage=1

Kirk at TVA has been participating this this thread, I'm sure he will see your comments and correct the info on the TVA site.

UCSB/Bill

Thanks for the reply. I've been following post #1 and knew it was being kept up to date. I've seen the picture of the CES card w/specs. But early specs aren't always correct. I've seen several products at CES and CEDIA that had different specs in the production models. So I was wondering if Samsung had revised the specs for the x67 models and in turn, if TVA had the new specs.

Originally posted by Tom_Bombadil
UCSB/Bill

Thanks for the reply. I've been following post #1 and knew it was being kept up to date. I've seen the picture of the CES card w/specs. But early specs aren't always correct. I've seen several products at CES and CEDIA that had different specs in the production models. So I was wondering if Samsung had revised the specs for the x67 models and in turn, if TVA had the new specs.

I've sent Kirk at TVA a PM asking for clarification. Hopefully, Kirk will reply by Monday and I will let everyone know if the spec has been revised.

This has been added to the Samsung section of the "Popular Threads " post stuck near the top of the forum topic list.

For those that give a damn:

Welcome children, to what the **** Daphoid is going to plug into his Sammy. Today you'll learn all about components, and what cables he might use, isn't this amazing?

OK.

1. DVD Player: Denon DVD-3910. This will be connected via HDMI to the TV, then either Optical Audio, or Denon Link will be used to pass the audio to the reciever.

2. HD PVR Box (8000HD or 8300HD), Depending on which box the cable company gives me, I shall plug it in with a DVI - HDMI, or HDMI-HDMI cable, and Optical Audio to the reciever again.

3. Sony Playstation 2: Optical Audio is already used to the reciever. We will then incorporate Component video to the reciever. In all likelyhood, the "playstation 3" will be connected in the same way when it comes out.

4. Computer: My big, loud, and noisy computer will be connected via a 128MB PCI video card, with a DVI port. So a big DVI - HDMI cable from BlueJeansCable will suit the bill here.

I think that's all the components for now, if I add anything (or need anything else) I'll let you know!

Class dismissed!

- D

Originally posted by UCSB
I've sent Kirk at TVA a PM asking for clarification. Hopefully, Kirk will reply by Monday and I will let everyone know if the spec has been revised.

TVA is now showing the 4667 and 5067 as 'in stock.' Interesting points:

- Estimated availability date was April...has Samsung learned their lesson about overpromising?
- Contrast ratio is listed at 1500:1, so it's probably got the HD3 chip
- Price is several hundred below MSRP

It's always possible the website specs are wrong, and Kirk can speak more to that when he responds to you.

Originally posted by cmonsammy
TVA is now showing the 4667 and 5067 as 'in stock.' Interesting points:

- Estimated availability date was April...has Samsung learned their lesson about overpromising?
- Contrast ratio is listed at 1500:1, so it's probably got the HD3 chip
- Price is several hundred below MSRP

It's always possible the website specs are wrong, and Kirk can speak more to that when he responds to you.

These are HLP units, I repeat HLP (as in last year's model), HLP4667 and HLP5067. They are revised versions of the HLP4663 and HLP5063 with integrated tuners added. That is why they have last year's 1500:1 contrast ratio. My guess, you you will see comparable models for the 56" and 61".

Hudson, and anyone else that just bought a HLPxx63W series, you may want to follow this tuner upgrade story carefully. My guess is these units will be priced almost the same as the non-tuner versions ... if it was me, I'd want the additional tuners.

Originally posted by cmonsammy
... Kirk can speak more to that when he responds to you.

I've sent Kirk at TV Authority a message saying the mystery has been cleared up.

Also, anyone that doesn't want to wait for the 2005's, these integrated tuners will just be another factor driving down the price of HLPxx63W's.

D ... you are sounding a little stressed, is winter starting to wear on you up there in Canada? The plans for your system sound good.

Wow, I hadn't seen any information about the HLPxx67Ws. That's great news for those of us who held back because of the lack of an integrated tuner.

Any guess if they'll do the same with the HLPxx74s soon?

Originally posted by allskill
Wow, I hadn't seen any information about the HLPxx67Ws. That's great news for those of us who held back because of the lack of an integrated tuner.

Any guess if they'll do the same with the HLPxx74s soon?

I'm working from memory here, but I thought Administrator had asked Steve P. this question in late 2004 and the answer was NO.

I found the post ... it is also in the FAQ area at the top of this thread (From ADMINISTRATOR):

Steve replied 51 minutes later with:

Here's the final, final...

1) 74 Series.. Monitor (w/o integrated) with 1 DVI and 1 HDMI...... this is good because the models that transition to Integrated will only offer 1 digital interface.

2) We will transition this series to a new design mid year that will include the integrated design. So, no 77 series will come.. it'll be called something a little different but it will be a "70" series.

=========================

BUT, I should point out that plans can change. This is the best information that we currently have.

Originally posted by UCSB
1) 74 Series.. Monitor (w/o integrated) with 1 DVI and 1 HDMI...... this is good because the models that transition to Integrated will only offer 1 digital interface.


But if that's the case, then the HLPxx67 shouldnt have both dvi and hdmi, which the TVA website advertises it having.

I won't get my hopes up for a xx77, because I remembered asking around about the xx77s when the xx74s arrived last fall.

The 2004 Samsung product brochure mentioned both the HL-Pxx67 and HL-Pxx77 with dates of January 2005 and March 2005 respectively. Maybe they'll still come through :confused:

Originally posted by allskill
But if that's the case, then the HLPxx67 shouldnt have both dvi and hdmi, which the TVA website advertises it having.

I won't get my hopes up for a xx77, because I remembered asking around about the xx77s when the xx74s arrived last fall.

The 2004 Samsung product brochure mentioned both the HL-Pxx67 and HL-Pxx77 with dates of January 2005 and March 2005 respectively. Maybe they'll still come through :confused:

The single digital input that Steve P. is talking about in the HLPxx74W replacements is the HDMI input on the HLRxx78W/HLRxx68W. What he is saying is that their will not be a DVI input. This September 2004 comment was confirmed by our data at CES 2005.

Steve P. is the product line manager for Samsung DLP ... if he says the model HLPxx77W is dead, it is history.

They had planned to do the HLPxx67W's about this time. With all of the news at CES, we just forgot about them. We don't know how long it's going to take to get the HLR's out ... so freshening up the HLPxx63W with the tuners makes sense. They may need to carry the Samsung product line for months. It makes these core units more competitive.

I'll be alright, just the whole "I want to buy it and get it over with" syndrome...

Although the installer in my city I'm buying it from offers FREE ISF calibration :D

- D

A question about Post #1.

That is a great, informative post. I used to do the same thing on receivers and pre-processors in that forum a couple of years ago - keeping the first post as up to date and comprehensive as possible.

My question is about the color settings. I'm using the "AVS-white" color setting, as I can't handle the "AVS-black" setting very well. In post 1, all of the answers to questions in the Q&A section are written in white letters over a light gray background, making it almost impossible to read. Nearly all of the rest of the text is the normal black letters over light gray, which is easy to read. Is this the way it was designed to be formatted?

It looks like the HLP x67 series is for those who cannot wait. Consider that they have lesser contrast numbers, in all liklihood less sophisticated electronics, and higher MSRP prices.

If Samsung can hit their April ship date on the HLR's, the HLP x67's are going to have one of the shortest shelf lifes I've ever seen.

Originally posted by UCSB
They had planned to do the HLPxx67W's about this time. With all of the news at CES, we just forgot about them.

That's pretty much what happened to me when posted earlier today about the HLPxx67s. Around the time of CES there were several models whose plans for integrated tuner units changed -- Samsung HLPxx77, Panasonic PT-xxDLD64, JVC xxZ795 -- I assumed plans for the HLPxx67s had bitten the dust as well.

Originally posted by Tom_Bombadil
My question is about the color settings. I'm using the "AVS-white" color setting, as I can't handle the "AVS-black" setting very well. In post 1, all of the answers to questions in the Q&A section are written in white letters over a light gray background, making it almost impossible to read. Nearly all of the rest of the text is the normal black letters over light gray, which is easy to read. Is this the way it was designed to be formatted?

Sorry ... I'll fix it on the next round of updates.

Originally posted by UCSB
Sorry ... I'll fix it on the next round of updates.

All fixes are done ... the white text is gone and I've tested it with the AVSwhite color scheme. :)

I've been trying to figure out what the 1080p world will be like for me. I've started to put together some notes on my main HD sources to try and see how the picture might come together. I don't know if anyone else will find these notes interesting, but they are below.

==========================

HD Content

HTPC (1920x1080):
> Display movie library.
> Display photographs.
> Internet.
> HD content backup via 1394 connection to Motorola 6412 DVR.
> HD-DVD, Blu-Ray recording (2006/2007)?


HD DVDs (1080i):
> First HD-DVD releases Q4 2005, first Blu-Ray releases Q1 2006.
> Initial prices for players, DVDs?
> Limited number of titles.
> No cost effective backup, duplication.
> Will Netflix offer HD DVDs?
> Standard DVDs will continue to be core tech until 2007+?


HD DVR CABLE CONTENT (Comcast Bay Area, Digital+):
ABC – 720p
CBS – 1080i
NBC – 1080i
PBS – 1080i
FOX – 720p
Discovery HD – 1080i
INHD – 1080i
INHD2 – 1080i
ESPN – 720p (1080p in future)


==============================================

OTHER HD CONTENT (Don’t subscribe, or not available):
HBO – 1080i
Starz! HD – 1080i
Showtime – 1080i
Cinemax HD – 1080i

WB – 1080i
UPN – 1080i
Paramount HDMovies – 1080i
HDNet – 1080i
HDNet Movies – 1080i
ESPN2 – 720p
Move Channel HD – 1080i
Playboy – 1080i
Spice – 1080i
NBA HDTV – 1080i
Bravo HD – 1080i

Other Providers:
Dish Network – 720p, 1080i
DirectTV – 720p, 1080i
Voom – 1080i

Source: http://hdtvtechno.netfirms.com/

I’m doing a lot of reading lately on the 720p vs. 1080p stuff. Although I’ve spent the last hour reading this thread, can someone give me a quick lowdown on the following:

- Are these new Samsung 1080p DLP sets really going to be worth the extra money? Why and how so?

- Are we still expecting rainbows, temporal dithering, internal reflections, video delay, etc, etc on these sets? Are we expecting even more problems considering these will be the 1st generation of 1080p chips and TV sets? Or are we crossing our fingers and hoping these sets to have fewer problems compared to the existing sets? Or, are we expecting because these are the xHD4’s, that they will be the best DLP sets to date and further eliminate the problems DLP sets have been susceptible to in the past?

- Are we expecting these new 1080p sets to be as good, better, or worse at displaying standard definition material than all previous Samsung DLP sets?

- What did true videophiles say about these sets during CES? Good? Fair? Great? Superb? Or was not enough shown in the right conditions to make CES a valid place for a good review?

Thanks. I’ve been trying to find these answers and considering I’m looking for my new TV in March, I’m wondering if waiting the extra 3 or 4 months will really be worth it.

I'm a bit tardy here: Thanks Bill and Jsaliga and jgrin for your responses. You've sold me that the resolution is worth it, and that there' more than the resolution to wait for. I will wait for the new HDR series.

Kudos to Bill on this thread. It's a ton of work I bet. I especially like how you pulled together the list on the state of HDTV across networks. That certainly helped me decide to wait for this HDR 61" set. It gave me (newb) the real world perspective I was looking at, which I did not get from just specs.

Now I just have to make my projector decision which will be tiding me over until then!

Cheers,

][udson

Originally posted by Rebies
- Are these new Samsung 1080p DLP sets really going to be worth the extra money? Why and how so?

:rolleyes:

- Are we still expecting rainbows,

As long as a single chip solution is used there will be "rainbows" for some people. Each light engine implementation seems to effect a slightly different group.

temporal dithering,

Should be better with light engine development.

internal reflections,

I don't recall reading HLP complaints about internal reflections. Maybe I missed them.

video delay,

No way to tell until there are production models to test.

etc, etc on these sets?

These will be fixed for sure. ;)

Are we expecting even more problems considering these will be the 1st generation of 1080p chips and TV sets?

I see DLP TV as being much like personal computers. I don't expect changing the DLP chip to be any different than changing the processor in a PC. Refinement of the light engine as a whole should improve with each new model.

Of course, if you are one who is involved with the ratio of DLP mirrors to pixels debate then going from the HD2+ chip to the XHD? chip might be seen as a step backward.

Or are we crossing our fingers and hoping these sets to have fewer problems compared to the existing sets?

Of course we are.

Or, are we expecting because these are the xHD4’s, that they will be the best DLP sets to date and further eliminate the problems DLP sets have been susceptible to in the past?

Of course we do.

- Are we expecting these new 1080p sets to be as good, better, or worse at displaying standard definition material than all previous Samsung DLP sets?

Based on the theory that the more conversion of "crap" is required the worse the "crap" is going to look then I expect worse "crap". I don't mind the HD3 "crap" so I probably won't mind the xHD4 "crap".

- What did true videophiles say about these sets during CES? Good? Fair? Great? Superb?

Who are the "true videophiles"? In general, attendees who reported their impressions liked what the saw.

Or was not enough shown in the right conditions to make CES a valid place for a good review?

Of course not. :p

I'm looking for my new TV in March, I'm wondering if waiting the extra 3 or 4 months will really be worth it.

That depends on you and how you will use the set that you buy. If I hadn't bought last June I would probably wait. The prices of the HLP sets keep coming down so you will have a bigger price differential to effect your choice when the HLR sets are in stores.

Slightly off-topic (please don't hurt me), but did anybody see any Sharp RP DLPs or LCDs at CES? I saw a "CNN NEXT" broadcast this weekend that had a CNET editor mention the Sharp RP at CES as one of his favorites. I did some searching on the forum, but couldn't find a mention.

Again sorry for deviating from the topic.

Ed

I saw them. They are 720p sets based on the HD4 chipset. They look pretty good, but not as good as the 1080p DLP offerings. I have some pictures of them here, starting with the 65DR750:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=494251&perpage=20&pagenumber=2

Now, to put his back on topic:

TetsujinWave,

I've practically memorized your previous photos but...if you have any more...please consider posting them (just can't get enough!).

Thanks TetsujinWave! I am still on-board for the 5078 in June/July.

I believe I could be persuaded to post a few more...;)

TetsjuinWave, what an attitude!

htwaits:

Thanks for taking the time to clear some of those things up. In my general research, I'm thinking these TVs will be well worth the wait and extra money. But without seeing myself first hand, I can't know for sure. This thread has definately helped!

One more.

- Are we still expecting rainbows,

As long as a single chip solution is used there will be "rainbows" for some people. Each light engine implementation seems to effect a slightly different group.




I thought I read somewhere that the RBE was dramatically decreased in the 1080P DLP sets. Has anyone else seen the 1080P sets and can verify this?

NovaHokie,

htwaits is corrrect. Some people will be able to see rainbows on these sets. I could make myself see them, but rainbows don't really bother me. I don't want to quantify the effect as "more" or "less" prevalent, but "there" or "not there." If I wasn't trying to see them (quickly darting my eyes around), I didn't.

I know the feeling. My wife and I are waiting, too. In fact we went to our HighEnd store Saturday and looked again at the Sony XBR LCD, some Plasma and Samsung DLP's. The LCD's are not Black enough and what should be Black bars are Gray at best! One surprise is they had some HD2+ and HD3 sets running. There seemed to be constant movement/flicker in the HD3 sets. If a scene had some movement in the foreground and some tall straight buildings in BG, the BG seemed jagged...like it just could not stand still. I don't know what you call it, but we are going to wait for the New 2005 sets. Of course they may be getting the Qualia as well!


Originally posted by Rebies
htwaits:

Thanks for taking the time to clear some of those things up. In my general research, I'm thinking these TVs will be well worth the wait and extra money. But without seeing myself first hand, I can't know for sure. This thread has definately helped!

There is one cosmetic detail on the 68 / 78 series that is not clear to me. On the 61" and larger screens, if you left the stabilization foot on the unit, would the foot be part of the base and elevate the bottom of the set off of your stand? At CES, all of the Samsung stands were custom designed to work with the stabilization base ... so it is difficult to understand how these units would look on a flat stand with the stabilzation foot still in place. Any ideas?

That's a good point... I didn't think of that. I'd think they'd make it removable because if you were laying it on a flat surface (like say a big piece of nicely stained wood ^_^) then you'd want it to sit as flat and level as possible.

- D

UCSB, I have been out of town for a couple of days so have not been doing my usual snooping around on the Samsung site. Got back this evening and started looking around on the Samsung site.

Some interesting things can now be found that I don't think we knew about before. I'm sure most people have noticed that TVA is having a power buy on the HLP4667 and HLP5067. If you search for these models on the Samsung website you are taken to this location Samsung Global Download (http://www.samsung.com/download/Model_Select.aspx?type=TV&typecode=1& subtype=Projection&subtypecode=103&model=HL-P5067W&fileType=UM ) (if you go to the US download site none of these models show up yet). Download the PDF owners manuals and on the first page you will note that the manual is for the following models:

HLP4667
HLP5067
HLP5667
HLP6167
I believe these are all 2004 models and they do have cablecard slots. I also think these are all 720p sets, no idea which chip.

If you scroll down on the list from the link above, also listed are owners manuals for the:

HLR4677
HLR5677

These appear to be 2005 models and also have cablecard slots. My impression is that they are also 720p sets, again no idea which chip.

I don't know how these fit in with the announcements made at CES. It would appear that Samsung is indeed finalizing both the 2004 model year as well as the 2005 model year. Hopefully, you can figure where these fit into your first post. I'm not sure I have any good ideas :D

Out of curiosity, I'm not sure if this has been asked or answered before:

Why on post #1 of this thread are all of the pictures full screen (the picture on the television is full screen), except the pictures of the HLR5078W model? On all of these they are letterboxed a bit and have "dts" logos. Was this TV specifically showing some DTS promo clip or something?

As stated earlier in the thread, the HL-R5078 was being fed from an upscaling dvd player showing "I, Robot" and other clips. It was the only one being fed in this manner.

Here is a resize of one of the HL-R5078 pictures. If you look closely, you can see the Samsung DVD player feeding it.

Tetsujin,

Yes that is what I assumed. Sorry if I have not been following this thread the entire time - it's a lot of information. Thought I would point it out though as I just happened to notice that.

I have just taken a look at the Samsung Global Download center as
documented by SCHAFFER970 and looked at the User guide for HLR4667W. In the appendix under specifications the W x D X H are
*exactly* the same as the HLP4663W 43.07 x 13.35 x 32.05.

We thought the depth might be reduced by 1 inch ? The Weight on the HLR4667W is more than the HLP4663W, 71.6 vs 69.4 ?

So who knows, is this just a *draft* manual ? or is it correct ?

I make no claims at to the veracity of anything I find on the Samsung site :D However, they seem to be final documents to me, as they are pdf with all the pictures (cover art) etc. If you download the documents, you will find that the naming convention makes it seem that one is a 2004 document and the other 2005.

There's no reason to apologize--I didn't mean it to sound so heavy-handed, as I'm now re-reading it. There is a lot of information to process in this thread, with more coming in all the time.

It's going to be a long five months...

Originally posted by schaffer970
UCSB, I have been out of town for a couple of days so have not been doing my usual snooping around on the Samsung site. Got back this evening and started looking around on the Samsung site.

Some interesting things can now be found that I don't think we knew about before. I'm sure most people have noticed that TVA is having a power buy on the HLP4667 and HLP5067.

According to Samsung's 2004 DLP line up, the 67 series should just be the 63 series with the tuner and cable card slot. Based on TVA's posted specs, that would tend to confirm that.

Yes, the HLP4667/5067W TV's are 720p sets and are identical to the 63 series models with the addition of an ATSC tuner & cable card slot.

Originally posted by Dick

We thought the depth might be reduced by 1 inch ? The Weight on the HLR4667W is more than the HLP4663W, 71.6 vs 69.4 ?


Well, they are adding the integrated tuner, so it makes sense that it would add a few pounds.

Although the posted specs for the HLP4663W and HLP4667W list them as having the same 69.4 pound weight, which seems unlikely, as the Px67 also has the tuner.

Any ideas on whether the XX67 or XX87 will have the new and improved screen with out the smudge problem ?

Any ideas on whether the XX67 or XX87 will have the new and improved screen with out the smudge problem ?

Great thread! I've been looking and reading, I'm up to P 16 on this thread, I would like anyone's take on which TV to get now. It's going over the fireplace (53x37x24d opening). I was thinking 5674, but would sure like an opinion on whether the wait/$ is worth it for the hlr.... Thanks.

Edit:

Didn't completely read the post that I was trying to respond to (never mind!).

Originally posted by Danboy68
Great thread! I've been looking and reading, I'm up to P 16 on this thread, I would like anyone's take on which TV to get now. It's going over the fireplace (53x37x24d opening). I was thinking 5674, but would sure like an opinion on whether the wait/$ is worth it for the hlr.... Thanks.

How high off of the floor will the TV be in this opening? How large a room is this? What is going to be your viewing distance? These questions will help us understand in a little more detail the setup you are trying to create.

Originally posted by Dick
I have just taken a look at the Samsung Global Download center as
documented by SCHAFFER970 and looked at the User guide for HLR4667W. In the appendix under specifications the W x D X H are
*exactly* the same as the HLP4663W 43.07 x 13.35 x 32.05.

We thought the depth might be reduced by 1 inch ? The Weight on the HLR4667W is more than the HLP4663W, 71.6 vs 69.4 ?

So who knows, is this just a *draft* manual ? or is it correct ?

Interestingly, the size specs on the hlp4674w at the global download center(p95) appear to be identical to the HLP4663W and the HLR4667W. My understanding is the 4674 model is smaller than the 4663. Perhaps this indicates that these are indeed *draft* manuals.

Originally posted by Danboy68
Great thread! I've been looking and reading, I'm up to P 16 on this thread, I would like anyone's take on which TV to get now. It's going over the fireplace (53x37x24d opening). I was thinking 5674, but would sure like an opinion on whether the wait/$ is worth it for the hlr.... Thanks.

My guess would be that most of us on this thread believe that it's worth the wait for the HLR's. That being said, it is clearly a personal decision. So far only a few people have actually seen the 1080 sets (those who were at CES), but the general consensus is that they address most of the issues there were with the previous generation.

I'm hoping that you have taken into account angle of viewing etc. when you say you are putting it over the fireplace. This can be an issue, but as long as you have thought about it, you should be OK.

Originally posted by schaffer970
UCSB, I have been out of town for a couple of days so have not been doing my usual snooping around on the Samsung site. Got back this evening and started looking around on the Samsung site.

Some interesting things can now be found that I don't think we knew about before. I'm sure most people have noticed that TVA is having a power buy on the HLP4667 and HLP5067. If you search for these models on the Samsung website you are taken to this location Samsung Global Download (http://www.samsung.com/download/Model_Select.aspx?type=TV&typecode=1& subtype=Projection&subtypecode=103&model=HL-P5067W&fileType=UM ) (if you go to the US download site none of these models show up yet). Download the PDF owners manuals and on the first page you will note that the manual is for the following models:

HLP4667
HLP5067
HLP5667
HLP6167
I believe these are all 2004 models and they do have cablecard slots. I also think these are all 720p sets, no idea which chip.

If you scroll down on the list from the link above, also listed are owners manuals for the:

HLR4677
HLR5677

These appear to be 2005 models and also have cablecard slots. My impression is that they are also 720p sets, again no idea which chip.

I don't know how these fit in with the announcements made at CES. It would appear that Samsung is indeed finalizing both the 2004 model year as well as the 2005 model year. Hopefully, you can figure where these fit into your first post. I'm not sure I have any good ideas :D

Good find! I think the HLPxx67 manuals (in combination with some of the recent plasma releases) will allow us to close out some of our CableCard questions. It looks like it will be a single tuner setup with NO PIP capability.

Originally posted by UCSB
How high off of the floor will the TV be in this opening?

It's high--around 41/2 feet off the floor.

How large a room is this?

Huge family room, two story ceiling, about 20x40.

What is going to be your viewing distance?

14 ft.

These questions will help us understand in a little more detail the setup you are trying to create.

A bi

Danboy68 ... Below is a photo of how viewing angle affected PQ (I used my HLN467W, so they would be very similar to the HLP5674W). Plus, I posted a link to a little calculator that can be used to compute viewing angles. You might want to take a few minutes and make some calculations for your room just to double check viewing angles from 14 feet. It is the VERTICAL veiwing angle that is the only potential issue. For best results, try to keep the angle under 15 degrees, but even higher angles give you an acceptable picture. Best results are when you are level with the screen.

Viewing Angle Test: CLICK HERE (http://img163.exs.cx/img163/469/master2048jpg0xk.jpg)
Notice the Samsung Logo in all pictures to get a feel for slightly decreasing brightness

Viewing Angle Calculator: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/ttrig.html It is the last one on the page.

I plugged in your numbers and I got 17 degrees ... should be OK. But, may want to double check this one aspect of your install with your local dealer.

Thank you UCSB. I'll tilt if needed. Now I only wonder if I should jump on the 5674 or wait.

Originally posted by Danboy68
Thank you UCSB. I'll tilt if needed. Now I only wonder if I should jump on the 5674 or wait.

The biggest factor is how often you plan to upgrade and what is your current situation. I try to upgrade every 12 - 24 months and already own a nice Samsung DLP. So waiting (if you want to call it that :) ) makes sense to me. If you have a decent setup already. Then I would wait. If you plan on keeping this TV in service for a long time, then I would also tend to lean toward waiting. If you are waiting for the 1080p units, then I would also tend toward waiting. If you are going to upgrade in two years, I wouldn't wait six months.

If you are waiting for the 720p models, then you will have a shorter wait and it may make more sense. But, you might even like the picture on the 5674 more than the new 720p sets. The pictures will be different, with different trade-offs.

Bill

You mean you'll buy another sammy in 1-2 years and thus own 3 big tv's?

I hate you :D

_ D

One more thing, as far as I know (correct me if I am wrong here) we have not heard one single comment on the new 720p PQ. Nothing. The specs are improved over the 2004 models. The contrast ratio on the new 720p sets is 2000:1, the same as on the 5674. Color should be better on the new units. But, picture sharpness could be better on the 5674.

Originally posted by Daphoid
Bill

You mean you'll buy another sammy in 1-2 years and thus own 3 big tv's?

I hate you :D

_ D

:) Yep ... unless, I also put a 50" 720p in my gym this summer ... :D Right now I have my own HT, the one I have been planning here. A second system upstairs that my wife and daughter use. A third system in my son's room, he is 21 ... sound familiar. My main system is feeding my office kitchen and gym. I would really like to ugrade my TV in the gym. As I buy new systems, the old ones just move down the food chain. Hopefully, these things will mature one day and there will be little motivation to upgrade. :)

I'd say it is likely that the picture sharpness would be better from the 5674. It seems likely that the Rx67's with their 2000:1 contrast ratio will be based on a wobulation chip. Even with improvements to that process, I will be very surprised if they can get it to rival the sharpness of a HD2+ design.

But maybe they will surprise us and put a 1:1 mapping chip in the Rx67. It doesn't seem likely based on the specs and pricing, but we could be surprised.

As to Bill's upgrade schedule, boy I've got to get on track here. I've purchased three TVs in my life. First one in 1977, 2nd one in 1985, and the 3rd in 1999. One in each decade. That's my reason for hesitation now. If I buy in 2005, the next set to come along will probably be no earlier than 2012.

Bill - Can I come visit? :D :D

Originally posted by UCSB
:) Yep ... unless, I also put a 50" 720p in my gym this summer ... :D Right now I have my own HT, the one I have been planning here. A second system upstairs that my wife and daughter use. A third system in my son's room, he is 21 ... sound familiar. My main system is feeding my office kitchen and gym. I would really like to ugrade my TV in the gym. As I buy new systems, the old ones just move down the food chain. Hopefully, these things will mature one day and there will be little motivation to upgrade. :) I thought I was bad...1990 Pioneer 45"....1998 Mits 50"...2003 Samsung HLN567"....2004 Samsung HLP6163...and soon a 2005 HLR 67"...I bought my first TV in 1967 and it just get's better each time...after I buy a new set I give my kids the older ones...But I was told by the wife the 67" will have to do for some time...3 more years to retirement...FINALLY!!! get to actually watch these things.

From the Samsung Global Download Link for the HLR4677 manual it would appear there is no mention of the Firewire 1394 ports, PC VGA port or TV Guide feature in this model.

If you go back a couple of pages, UCSB reports that the product line manager of Samsung said the x77 models had been dropped and would never be released.

It is odd that the manuals have popped up, but that could happen. They may have been well down the development path before they dropped it. I remember IBM once took too long to get a laptop out of development and the market had moved on. They had a few thousand manufactured but never released it, and used all of them internally.

Would all models sold outside the US have the some features and manuals?

I was at CES and saw the 1080p sets. Very impressive. But in reading through this thread, it seems the HDMI inputs will not support 1080p. According to the HDMI web site FAQ page, 1080p is supported in the current specification. http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/faq.asp about half way down the page under the heading "What types of video does HDMI support?"

While I understand that nobody is, or will be anytime soon, broadcasting native 1080p, why purchase a set that can display 1080p but does not have a digital input for it? Am I missing something?

Unfortunately, I do not plan on buying a new DLP every few years so I want to get one with "legs." I may pull the trigger on a 4674 because it doesn't appear to be worth waiting until mid summer for a 1080p set that cannot receive a 1080p signal - should one ever be broadcast.

The biggest thing I can think of is converting a 1080i image to 1080p would work a lot better then converting a 1080i image to a 720p image...

Just seems better to me in my head.

- D

:confused: I've looked at the manuals for the 4677 and 5677 and I can not figure out what they are. Maybe they are manuals for the integrated tuner version of the HLPxx74W's (the units we were told were not going to be built). But, then why do they have an HLR designation. The dimensions on the 46 are wrong for a 74 series box. Perhaps, as HTwaits has said, they are foreign versions of some unit we don't recognize. If Samsung has brought back the idea of a 77 series, then the retailers should hear about it soon. After seeing a HLN5065W on the Costco site yesterday, one year after it was discontinued, I'd say anything is possible. :confused:

Originally posted by vardog
I was at CES and saw the 1080p sets. Very impressive. But in reading through this thread, it seems the HDMI inputs will not support 1080p. According to the HDMI web site FAQ page, 1080p is supported in the current specification. http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/faq.asp about half way down the page under the heading "What types of video does HDMI support?"

While I understand that nobody is, or will be anytime soon, broadcasting native 1080p, why purchase a set that can display 1080p but does not have a digital input for it? Am I missing something?

Unfortunately, I do not plan on buying a new DLP every few years so I want to get one with "legs." I may pull the trigger on a 4674 because it doesn't appear to be worth waiting until mid summer for a 1080p set that cannot receive a 1080p signal - should one ever be broadcast.

I think all of the prospective 1080p buyers share the concern about not being able to input 1080p. Why would we buy anyway? Because they may be the best sets available in 2005. I personally wish that Samsung would design the systems with the ability to be upgraded to 1080p at a later time.

ARRGGG, the unknowns about the next generation is driving me crazy. The short version of my question is- For viewing distances of 15’-30’+ would you rather have a 56” HD2+, 50” HD4, or very pricey 50” xHD4?

We’re planning on purchasing a Samsung DLP to go into a 50.5” wide built-in. We’ve checked out the 50” models for a while and finally got serious about purchasing. The HLP5063 looks a little too soft to us. The HLP5674 is a perfect fit because of the thin bezel (if Samsung kept the thin bezel we wouldn’t even consider a 50” anymore). We like the HD2+ in the 74, but the price seems too high. I’ve been following the HLR models and we’re considering the 720p HLR5067 or possibly the 1080p HLR5078. How will the HD4 in the new 67 series compare to the HD2+ in the 74 series? If the HD4 is still too soft for our tastes then we may miss out on the HLP5674’s (assumption based on comments about March-April final production for 74 series). If we wait to find out if they will even build a 1080p 50” set the HLP5674’s will be gone, plus it will be a very pricey 50” set. Our normal viewing distance is 15’ (couch) with pretty regular viewing from 30’ (kitchen into den). The built-in ATSC tuner and ports are not a real issue for us (we have a cable DVR and are addicted ;)). We currently have a 36” CRT and will keep the new set for a long time if that matters. We’re NOT on the constant upgrade path like some of you nuts!

If the price of the HLP5674 wasn’t so out of line we’d probably opt for the 56” due to our viewing distance but we really don’t want to overpay with better sets coming. I’m sure the HLP5674 price will continue to drop, but will it be enough? Unfortunately, we haven’t followed pricing decreases of models to know how reasonable it will come before it disappears.

Thanks!
Charlie

At a 15' viewing distance, and only a 50 or 56" screen, you will be wasting your money getting one of the new 1080p units; you need to sit much closer than that to see the higher resolution of a 1080p. You will probably be best getting the hlp 5674 now; that way you get the benefit of the larger screen, the sharpness you like, and the economy of a 720p set.

Originally posted by millerwill
At a 15' viewing distance, and only a 50 or 56" screen, you will be wasting your money getting one of the new 1080p units; you need to sit much closer than that to see the higher resolution of a 1080p. You will probably be best getting the hlp 5674 now; that way you get the benefit of the larger screen, the sharpness you like, and the economy of a 720p set.

Hmmm..... I am in the same dilemma. I have been convincing myself that the 10000:1 contrast ratio along with the higher resolution are worth waiting for. No?

I would guess the higher contrast ratio is worth the upgrade as wish_i_had_hdtv suggested.

However, as previously stated by millerwill, I too would say your not going to see the difference in resolution from such a distance. If you were talking a 70 inch set it might be different. But ya, get the 720p model at the cheaper price, wait a few years and then upgrade to 1080p for half of what it'll cost today.

Now if your going to be 7 or 8 feet away from the screen, as I am, then I'm guessing the difference in resolution will be noticeable and worth the upgraded model. I don't know enough about displays and human sight / perception - but there is probably a calculation where the 1080p makes a difference over the 720p versus percieved image staying about the same. (Assuming 20/20 eyesight that is) I would love to see this if anyone had an idea, but alas I'm no mathematician of human eyesight!

The latest Home Theater mag has an article about the very thing.

I am interested in buying a Samsung...but which to buy? HL-P4663W or HL-P4674W. I have been to many local stores in my area, but none of these stores have samples of them side by side. The cost diffenece between the two...considerable at $900. Is the picture quality of the "74" series worth the extra money?

Just a side note...
Best Buy in Waterford Connecticut wants $2374 (on sale) for the HL-P4663W, as where Paul's t.v. in Groton, CT ( A very reputable/authorized dealer/repair service...only 10 minutes away from BestBuy) wants $1800 (with free delivery and setup).

Amazing price difference! How did "Best" Buy receive their name?

I just saw the 4663 and 4674 side by side at local store. The 74 is sharper and better blacks, the 63 has an overall green hue to the picture esp. with regards to dark colos. IMO 74 worth the extra, I had the sales guy at $2999 without asking for a discount, my guess is he would go lower.
I have to go for 46" due to size restrictions. I've read everything and still can't decide if I should wait for 4667. My cabinet width is 43.5" How important is having a little clearance, height is not a problem?

I appologise if this was already discussed. Do we know what type of 1080 signal will new 1080p models take through DVI or HDMI? The obvious one would be 1080i 60hzNTSC/50hzPAL, but what about 1080p60hz, 1080p30fps, or 1080p24 (either 24fps or 24psf)? It looks like new Qualia 006 RPTV takes only 1080i60hz/50hz and 1080/24psf support that Qualia 004 FP has was left out.

I hope that Samsung continues with their PC/scaler friendly features and includes at least 1080p30fps or any of 1080 24 signals. Hopefully there would be 1080p60hz or even 1080p72hz support as that would make this piece the ultimate HDTV/PC monitor.