Thanks guys. Since the HLRxx67's will have the same CR as the 74 series (2000:1) and we prefer the 1:1 HD2+ sharper image I'm guessing we'll still prefer the HLP5674. Our only local retailer with 74 series is Tweeter so I'll have to keep pressure on the sales guy I've been dealing with to let me know when they hit our price point. Previously in this thread someone else mentioned negotiating a no-restocking fee upgrade if we really like the 50" 1080p a lot more. I'll probably try that is well.

I just hope the 74 drops sooner rather than later because all this research and store viewing has me salivating ;)

Charlie

I was wondering if we can actually expect the new 720p sets to come out in April? How will they compare with this years models? From what I can tell they are cheaper, take away an DVI input, add two ilink inputs, and add an ATSC tuner. Is there anything I have missed? I am looking into buying a new HDTV and want it to be as future proof as can be, LOL, i know laughable in todays market, right. Is it safe to buy a t.v. with just HDMI inputs or are firewire imputs needed as well? thanks, John

Originally posted by Jon_W
I was wondering if we can actually expect the new 720p sets to come out in April?

> Last year the HLPxx63W's were out within 4 weeks of the announced date, in the May timeframe.

How will they compare with this years models?

> We have not had ANY comments on the 720p units, so we don't know.

From what I can tell they are cheaper, take away an DVI input, add two ilink inputs, and add an ATSC tuner. Is there anything I have missed?

> CableCard.

I am looking into buying a new HDTV and want it to be as future proof as can be, LOL, i know laughable in todays market, right. Is it safe to buy a t.v. with just HDMI inputs or are firewire imputs needed as well?

> HDMI is all that is needed for typical use.

Originally posted by vpopovic
I appologise if this was already discussed. Do we know what type of 1080 signal will new 1080p models take through DVI or HDMI? The obvious one would be 1080i 60hzNTSC/50hzPAL, but what about 1080p60hz, 1080p30fps, or 1080p24 (either 24fps or 24psf)? It looks like new Qualia 006 RPTV takes only 1080i60hz/50hz and 1080/24psf support that Qualia 004 FP has was left out.

I hope that Samsung continues with their PC/scaler friendly features and includes at least 1080p30fps or any of 1080 24 signals. Hopefully there would be 1080p60hz or even 1080p72hz support as that would make this piece the ultimate HDTV/PC monitor.

1080i ... to the best of our knowledge.

> HDMI is all that is needed for typical use.

Do the new 720p sets have 2 HDMI or just one? I've read conflicting specs. If only one, how does one connect DVD player, sat/cable box with just the one?

Originally posted by swinslow
> HDMI is all that is needed for typical use.

Do the new 720p sets have 2 HDMI or just one? I've read conflicting specs. If only one, how does one connect DVD player, sat/cable box with just the one?

1 HDMI. You either use one of the component video connections or get a HDMI switching receiver or a HDMI switch box.

Originally posted by swinslow
Do the new 720p sets have 2 HDMI or just one?

I think that depends on the model.

If only one, how does one connect DVD player, sat/cable box with just the one?

The HD tuner and cable card should work with your local cable company. Satellite is another problem. With a HDMI DVD player and a satellite STB with HDMI you would need a HDMI switch. That's not nice.

Originally posted by swinslow
Do the new 720p sets have 2 HDMI or just one?

I think that depends on the model.

If only one, how does one connect DVD player, sat/cable box with just the one?

The HD tuner and cable card should work with your local cable company. Satellite is another problem. With a HDMI DVD player and a satellite STB with HDMI you would need a HDMI switch. That's not nice

I am thinking of the 74 or the upcoming 67's. I read where the 67's have 1 OR 2 HDMI's. Do we know for sure?
Don't want external HDMI switch but do want to hook up DirecTV as well as HDMI DVD for best picture.

Steve

Originally posted by swinslow
I am thinking of the 74 or the upcoming 67's. I read where the 67's have 1 OR 2 HDMI's. Do we know for sure?
Don't want external HDMI switch but do want to hook up DirecTV as well as HDMI DVD for best picture.

Steve

1 HDMI. Somewhere in this thread there is a reliable first hand account from CES to confirm this.

Originally posted by UCSB
1 HDMI. Somewhere in this thread there is a reliable first hand account from CES to confirm this.

But this is so wrong. :( Why would they take away functionality in a "next gen" product??

Originally posted by UCSB
1 HDMI. Somewhere in this thread there is a reliable first hand account from CES to confirm this.

*** 720P ***
=========
Copied from earlier post here:

TABLETOP MODELS --- HRLxx67W --- 67 Series:
HLR6167W (61, APR 2005, $3,799)
HLR5667W (56, APR 2005, $3,499)
HLR5067W (50, APR 2005, $2,999)
HLR4667W (46, APR 2005, $2,699)
> Floating Screen Design
> Cinema Smooth Generation 720P, DNIe
> 2 HDMI (?), 2 Component Video, 1 S-Video, 2 Composite, IEEE 1394 (?, 1)
> ATSC Tuner / NTSC Tuner, Digital Cable Ready with CableCARD
> AnyNET
> 12 17 Inches Deep, 70 120 LBS.
> 30 Watts, Internal Speakers
> DLP Chip: HD3, Contrast Ratio: (?)
> Color Wheel: 7 Segment


So is it now confirmed at just 1 HDMI?

Originally posted by wish_i_had_hdtv
But this is so wrong. :( Why would they take away functionality in a "next gen" product??
Almost all models from any manufacturer that include a HD tuner and cable card only have one HDMI port.

I think it's wrong too but it must save them money. Maybe the cable companies made them do it. :rolleyes:

Panasonic has a new lower priced AVR that has one HDMI input and one HDMI output. I think that's crazy too.

On a general note, I would like to just take a moment to remind everyone that we are primarily discussing FUTURE products in this thread. These products are still under development and have not been released yet. Much of our information has been gathered from CES 2005 in early January. This show is to give dealers a preview of the new models. Samsung may change the spec's and or performance of these products by the time they are introduced. In addition, many people have contributed to the collection of this information through first hand accounts and photos. Great care has been taken to keep the information as accurate and reliable as is possible. I am personally amazed at what we have been able to pull together! But, all of this has its limits ... especially when trying to compare existing model performance to future model performance. I just want to remind eveyone that this information is preliminary. As we answer specific questions, what we are really saying is that Samsung demonstrated models with these specs to their dealers at CES.

Originally posted by htwaits
Almost all models from any manufacturer that include a HD tuner and cable card only have one HDMI port.

I think it's wrong too but it must save them money. Maybe the cable companies made them do it. :rolleyes:


I thought Mits had 2 HDMI, but do not like the screen glare. Is Samsung crazy? Don't they sell HDMI output DVD players themselves?! Don't they realize that tons of people will not use the cable card or tuner and need to hook up their cable DVR box or DirecTivo box via HDMI plus their DVD player? I thought they were "leaders" in DLP. This is not leading. Oh well, guess it's component for DVD's then...Steve

Originally posted by swinslow
Oh well, guess it's component for DVD's then...Steve

Slightly OT, but my experience has been that the improvement you get for DVD's via DVI vs. component is better than what you get for HD content (for me, that's a Motorola 6412 from Comcast). YMMV.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by htwaits
[B]Almost all models from any manufacturer that include a HD tuner and cable card only have one HDMI port.

However, the xx68 and xx78 seem to have 2 HDMI ports. I suppose these are higher priced/ higher end models but its still stupid to take away a DVI port just because you added a cable card/tuner. As someone else mentioned - most people given a choice would use a Cable/Satellite PVR/HD receiver anyway. Why force the majority into using Component? Oh well....

Originally posted by swinslow
So is it now confirmed at just 1 HDMI?

I am maintaining the first post in this thread, Post #1, to reflect the most current information that we have available. The information in Post #1 also contains a change log at the end of the post that describes each addition or change to the post.

As you read through this thread from post #1 to the current post, realize that we were pulling the information together and it was changing and being refined ... Post #1 reflects all of that activity.

Originally posted by swinslow
I thought Mits had 2 HDMI,
Both Samsung and Mitsubishi have two HDMI inputs on their high end models. In Mitsubishi it's the Diamond line.

Check the first message for Samsung models with "expectations" of having two HDMI inputs.

htwaits: I heard that you have recently bought a DLP set. Do you love it? How interested are you in the newer improvements coming in DLP--are you keenly interested and wondering what you might buy next or are you very content and enjoying what you currently have? I ask the question because it might be informative for new buyers who wonder if they'll love a good researched purchase in the first year or feel buyer's remorse.

Originally posted by swinslow
So is it now confirmed at just 1 HDMI?

Sorry ... I reallized that I didn't directly answer your question. Yes, it has been confirmed that there is only 1 HDMI input on the 67 series. I am working from memory, but I believe it was Kirk at TVauthority who confirmed this. He attended the show and actually looked at the inputs on the display models.

Originally posted by UCSB
Sorry ... I reallized that I didn't directly answer your question. Yes, it has been confirmed that there is only 1 HDMI input on the 67 series. I am working from memory, but I believe it was Kirk at TVauthority who confirmed this. He attended the show and actually looked at the inputs on the display models.

OK, I guess that means a wait till June to get the 68 series with 2 HDMI. I really think I need that extra input to make it as "future proof" for me as I can. Yes, I know, the future is 1080p, but I thought I could "live with" the gorgeuos 720p for a couple of years...Steve

I've read this thread more than any other in AVSForum over the course of my several years of lurking, so I am pretty sure that I haven't missed the discussion, but what was the reason why the HLR5078 is listed as a "tentative model / screen size" whereas the 56" and 61" do not include such a designation?

Understanding that nothing is set in stone (CES is just a demonstration, etc. etc. -- thanks for the reminder, actually, it is so easy to get caught up in it all ;) ), is it possible that Samsung will not release a 50" screen in the x78 series? Am I getting my hopes up and waiting for nothing?

Originally posted by swinslow
OK, I guess that means a wait till June to get the 68 series with 2 HDMI. I really think I need that extra input to make it as "future proof" for me as I can. Yes, I know, the future is 1080p, but I thought I could "live with" the gorgeuos 720p for a couple of years...Steve

Or get the 5674 or 5685 NOW with 1 HDMI and 1 DVI input. And live with the lower contrast etc....

I am receiving my Kirk HL-P5085W tomorrow and had a question about DVI and HDCI inputs and aspect ratios. Is my understanding correct that the aspect ratio is locked if the incoming signal is through the digital ports. In other words, if I use DVI from my Motorola box, most SD content will be 4X3 letterbox and I will not be able to stretch it. Similarly if I use an up-converting DVD player and the movie aspect ratio is not eactly 16X9, I am stuck with black bars below and on top of the screen.

Also, does this "aspect ratio lock" exist with TV's using cablecard such as the forthcoming 87 series.

Originally posted by Ed_Newt
I've read this thread more than any other in AVSForum over the course of my several years of lurking, so I am pretty sure that I haven't missed the discussion, but what was the reason why the HLR5078 is listed as a "tentative model / screen size" whereas the 56" and 61" do not include such a designation?

Understanding that nothing is set in stone (CES is just a demonstration, etc. etc. -- thanks for the reminder, actually, it is so easy to get caught up in it all ;) ), is it possible that Samsung will not release a 50" screen in the x78 series? Am I getting my hopes up and waiting for nothing?

Samsung made an offical press release on the 68 series at CES. But, they have not made a press release on the 78 series. We had heard rumors that the 70" and the 50" were still being evaluated as of CES. Samsung wanted to get dealer feedback on both units. Administrator sent an email to Steve P. asking about the 50" and 70", Samsung's product line manager for DLP, and his response is that the 78 series is still being discussed with the dealers. The 78 series will have four models, but the 70" and 50" were still being evaluated against other possible options.

I would expect that the dealers and Samsung marketing were looking at a comparison of a 67" vs 70". On the 50" unit we don't know what that is being compared to ... but, if you read Steve P.'s comments carefully, I think the 50" will be built.

Originally posted by UCSB
I would expect that the dealers and Samsung marketing were looking at a comparison of a 67" vs 70". On the 50" unit we don't know what that is being compared to ... but, if you read Steve P.'s comments carefully, I think the 50" will be built.

Thanks for the response!

I, for one, hope they make the 50".

Just a comment on the 1 DVI port issue with some of the 720p sets that are soon to arrive...

To me, it really doesn't make a huge difference with respect to "future proofing" to have more than 1 DVI input. I am personally looking to get the 5078, so it's easy for me to say that I don't need two inputs even though I'll be getting two inputs, though that's not the reason I want the set.

I think we all know that *eventually*, many a/v receivers will have several DVI inputs to channel to your TV along with the audio. For me, that's the best way to go.

This is the same reason that I could care less about CableCard being integrated into my TV (even though it will be in the 5078), particularly if it is not two-way, which won't happen probably until the end of this year. I use a DVR (in my case, a TiVo), so having CableCard is useless to me since I want to record all of my programming (I will probably move to an SA8000HD once I get my 5078). *Eventually*, DVRs will be manufactured with Two-Way Cable Card functionality (I suppose this is just my opinion), which will mean that Ultimately, I will be using the TV as nothing more than a monitor. I don't mind this, and I think that is what it's primary function should be, so I'm perfectly content getting a 5078 and waiting for the other pieces to fall into place while I use an SA8000HD along with some component inputs for other devices.

Some of these units as shown at CES are spec'ed at a 10,000:1 contrast ratio.

How does this translate to the TV as a whole versus the HD chip?

Then how realistic is that from Samsung or is it marketing hype.

I just purchased a HLP4674 and am evaluating the set. My only concern right now is the detail in dark scenes and getting true black.

-abdo

You can get a HDMI splitter you know, it's not the end of the world :) I'm still baffled at people that get upset over one connector in a $4000+ LUXURY NOT REQUIRED TO LIVE item...

Remember folks, this is a HOBBY, a OPTIONAL PLEASURE that we all enjoy, your life will not implode if you only have 1 HDMI port.

And as always, this information is tentative.

- D

Just to clarify on contrast ratio. A good contrast ratio could just mean that the display is very, very bright, while blacks are still bad. You ideally want to get the contrast ratio increased by making the blacks blacker and the brights brighter, but that doesn't always have to be the case.

Originally posted by abdo
Some of these units as shown at CES are spec'ed at a 10,000:1 contrast ratio.

How does this translate to the TV as a whole versus the HD chip?

Then how realistic is that from Samsung or is it marketing hype.

I just purchased a HLP4674 and am evaluating the set. My only concern right now is the detail in dark scenes and getting true black.

-abdo

So are you saying you're not satisfied with the blacks on the HLP4674?

Originally posted by abdo
Some of these units as shown at CES are spec'ed at a 10,000:1 contrast ratio.

How does this translate to the TV as a whole versus the HD chip?

Then how realistic is that from Samsung or is it marketing hype.

I just purchased a HLP4674 and am evaluating the set. My only concern right now is the detail in dark scenes and getting true black.

-abdo

We have seen a steady improvement in contrast ratio specs over the past few years. Going back two years, the HLN models had a CR of 1000:1. As the quoted CR ratios have improved, black level performance has improved. The current HLPxx85W series being the best so far at 2500:1.

I think the important thing to take away from the 10,000:1 number is that black level performance will IMPROVE with these series 68 /78 series models over all prior models. We will just have to wait to see the production models to see if the 10,000:1 number is going to be the final production spec. It may drop, or it may not.

To use the HLP4674 that you are evaluating as an example. Working from memory, I think Samsung gave us the idea at CES 2004 that the production HLPxx74 models may have a CR of 3000:1. Later this was revised to 2500:1. In the end the production model is spec'd at > 2000:1. The HLPxx74 is a special case because it was severely delayed and I think that when Samsung went with the six segment color wheel instead of the seven segment wheel, they lost the difference in the CR spec (although the hybrid light engine may also be blamed).

In the same year, the HLPxx63W's were spec'd at CES at 1500:1 and delivered at 1500:1.

Bottom line, I think it is reasonable to expect visible improvement in black level performance with these new 68 /78 models.

Originally posted by Jamers
So are you saying you're not satisfied with the blacks on the HLP4674?

I am still calbrating the set and evaluating... so at this point I'm undecided whether to keep this set or not. Unfortunalte my past TV's have all been CRT tubes. This is my first RP set.

I am correct here (very long thread) is the only difference in the upcoming 4667 vs 4663 the integrated tuner? Same chip HD3? If I plan to go with Direct TV HD and don't need OTA capability should I pull the trigger on the 4674? Will the PQ be better on the 4667?
Appreciate any thoughts.

So for the '78 series there is no 46" planned?

Also, is hte HD4 ship based off the HD3 or HD2+?

-abdo

No 46" for 78 series, not sure about chip.

Originally posted by Clorox
...so having CableCard is useless to me since I want to record all of my programming...
but you that's where the firewire port could fit in. If you DVR is hooked up using firewire, then the CableCard in the TV would be useful.

(Assuming TiVo still exists in a year, they have announced plans to release a HD-DVR with CableCard by then; I hope they consider a firewire-connected box as well.)

Ok someone fill me in, what's this "Cable Card" nonsense, and why is it so yummy?

- D

EDIT: Ok I just did a bit of reading, and it seems like CableCard is "Digital Cable for the Person who just wants to watch TV and nothing else".... It's like taking regular cable TV, but with digital quality video / sound....

So for us geeks, I don't even see a need for it? Like some of the biggest draws for HDTV for me at the moment, besides the HD quality, is the interactive program guide, the DVR capabilities, pay per view, pause/rewind live TV, all that good stuff! I have regular cable service now (Everything from Channel 2 up to about 62 which is Prime Television)... I guess CableCard is nice for the masses if they just want to watch TV, but with a big TV and better quality picture....

It gets a big meh from me though

Cable card is way of using a tuner that is built-in to the TV to switch cable channels. Think of it as the card that is in a set-top-box (I think there is more electronics in a cable card). Basically it is a way to activate the cable tuner that is built into the set.

Here is a link to a better explanation: Get ready for CableCard (http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000300025456/)

CableCard could have many uses. First, if you have a complex setup then this would allow other family members to just turn on the TV and it is fully functional without using any additional components in your system. This is a big issue for me. Second, since it is built in, I am hoping that it may do a better job than a set-top-box might in terms of signal quality (for some classes of signals). Do you really think the digital electronics in that free or low cost cableTV STB can compete with these TVs? Third, even if you have an external HD DVR, CableCard will give you an additional tuner. Fourth, if you have multiple HD TV in your house (and you all will one day) then you just connect the additional TV to the cable like you do now with standard TVs. Fifth, for some people it MAY allow them to use 1394 to archive HD to a HTPC or other storage device.

Originally posted by Daphoid
I'm still baffled at people that get upset over one connector in a $4000+ LUXURY NOT REQUIRED TO LIVE item...

Remember folks, this is a HOBBY, a OPTIONAL PLEASURE that we all enjoy, your life will not implode if you only have 1 HDMI port.I disagree with your overall comment. (not the part about my life imploding though ;)

At $4000, which is fairly top of the line, they better put in everything I need. I can only assume it costs them $5 to $25 per HDMI input they have on the TV. Maybe I'm wrong about the price, but if not, I don't know why a $4000 TV does not come with 3 or 4 HDMI inputs. This, as you said, is a luxury item, and thus we're paying a premium for added benefits.

Why might I need HDMI? Lets see: Cable, Satellite, DVD Player - and thats just me. Maybe I'll have use for more ports for other things in the future. (Playstation 3?, Xbox 2?, etc)

Thus, the more inputs my TV has - the better. I would prefer to spend an extra $400 on my TV if it came with five HDMI, five component, five composite, five VGA/PC, five Firewire, five S-Video, etc, etc, etc. This way I don't have to worry about using switch boxes in the future. I have used switchboxes in the past and I know what a pain that can be!!! I'm paying good money for a luxury item and as such I can only hope they include all the inputs my heart will ever desire. I don't want to have some clunky HDMI switchbox next to my home theater in a few years when all of a sudden I need more inputs than my TV has!

Originally posted by Daphoid
Ok someone fill me in, what's this "Cable Card" nonsense, and why is it so yummy?

- D

EDIT: Ok I just did a bit of reading, and it seems like CableCard is "Digital Cable for the Person who just wants to watch TV and nothing else".... It's like taking regular cable TV, but with digital quality video / sound....

So for us geeks, I don't even see a need for it? Like some of the biggest draws for HDTV for me at the moment, besides the HD quality, is the interactive program guide, the DVR capabilities, pay per view, pause/rewind live TV, all that good stuff! I have regular cable service now (Everything from Channel 2 up to about 62 which is Prime Television)... I guess CableCard is nice for the masses if they just want to watch TV, but with a big TV and better quality picture....

It gets a big meh from me though

Daphoid,

you hit the nail on the head with the features I'd like to use with HD (when I finally get it). While jensph has a decent point that firewire could be used with a DVR device, I'm not sold on that, at least for these Sammy sets, because they aren't second generation CableCard. Thus, no dual tuner support (which is a key feature IMHO), no PPV, and I'm not sure that the interface would go all that well between the two devices. Are we to expect a DVR box to be able to change the channels itself through the TVs cablecard? I'm not sure I see how effective that would all be.

Now an HDTivo with CableCard v2.0, that's the ticket.... Since that's not supposed to be out for about a year, I'll stick to a Cable HD-DVR once I get my set.

Originally posted by Daphoid
So for us geeks, I don't even see a need for it? Like some of the biggest draws for HDTV for me at the moment, besides the HD quality, is the interactive program guide, the DVR capabilities, pay per view, pause/rewind live TV, all that good stuff!

As I understand it, CableCard won't work with VOD, PPV, DVR, interactive program guides and more. For me - I like this stuff. I love video on demand, I love the Interactive Program Guide Comcast has and I don't want to go to Samsung's system over Comcast's!

However, I think its a decent idea. Especially with CableCard 2 coming out soon (next few months? year?), we can use the VOD, PVR, DVR and interactive program guides with our cable companies. (That I understand it anyway.)

So, yes, removing that ugly Comcast set-top-box and replacing it with a $5 a month cheaper CableCard might be a good option. (Not to mention clearing up a few extra wires in my setup.)

But for now I assume most of us on here will say "uck" to cablecard as it is now. Either way, if these new Samsung DLPs come with CableCard 2 or not, I'll most likely get the cable box from Comcast anyway.

Clorox:

I'm not postive, but fairly sure the second generation CableCard in the Samsung's has not even been hinted at one way or the other. I'm personally hoping for it for future proof, but don't really care about it that much.

Originally posted by Rebies
I disagree with your overall comment. (not the part about my life imploding though ;)

At $4000, which is fairly top of the line, they better put in everything I need. I can only assume it costs them $5 to $25 per HDMI input they have on the TV. Maybe I'm wrong about the price, but if not, I don't know why a $4000 TV does not come with 3 or 4 HDMI inputs. This, as you said, is a luxury item, and thus we're paying a premium for added benefits.

Why might I need HDMI? Lets see: Cable, Satellite, DVD Player - and thats just me. Maybe I'll have use for more ports for other things in the future. (Playstation 3?, Xbox 2?, etc)

Thus, the more inputs my TV has - the better. I would prefer to spend an extra $400 on my TV if it came with five HDMI, five component, five composite, five VGA/PC, five Firewire, five S-Video, etc, etc, etc. This way I don't have to worry about using switch boxes in the future. I have used switchboxes in the past and I know what a pain that can be!!! I'm paying good money for a luxury item and as such I can only hope they include all the inputs my heart will ever desire. I don't want to have some clunky HDMI switchbox next to my home theater in a few years when all of a sudden I need more inputs than my TV has! I agree with you 100%...I would like to have as many digital connections as I can have...at least 3 HDMI's would be nice...I would have know problem paying for the extra connections.

Originally posted by JayG
I am correct here (very long thread) is the only difference in the upcoming 4667 vs 4663 the integrated tuner? Same chip HD3? If I plan to go with Direct TV HD and don't need OTA capability should I pull the trigger on the 4674? Will the PQ be better on the 4667?
Appreciate any thoughts.

I seriously doubt the PQ would be better on the 4667 vs the 4674. The 4667 may be marginally better than the 4663. I'm 90% sold on the 4674. I can't foresee ever needing the OTA capability. Plus who wants to spend another $150+ for an ugly antenna and cable I'd have to mount and run. The cable card feature doesn't appeal to me either cause my Dish receiver has a DVR (digital video recorder). I could never go back to "always live" TV after using the DVR for 2+ years. If you have young kids you'll understand why I feel this way.

So the only thing that appeals to me in the 4667 is the floating screen design and the low pricepoint. I would guess if the MSRP was $2699 then the online price would be closer to 2K. That's why I'm still only 90% sold on the 4674. I guess I'll start being more decisive when my tax return actually hits my bank account. Then my dream can become reality.

Oooh I stirred up argument!! Good!

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have 12 HDMI's, 12 DVI's (for PC and components thank you, go and die VGA), maybe some component video too....

I think, I just don't like the complaining. Yes it's nice to say "Man, why don't have this? Wouldn't it be nice?"

rather then "OMG THERE'S ONLY ONE HDMI PORT???????????????????" I think it's all about tone, so that was kinda my one issue, calm down people. You get better results with politeness then anger.

As for cable card, I didn't mean to put the hate on it, more rather at the moment I don't see a huge use (for me) but in the future? bring it on!

- D

Originally posted by Rebies
Clorox:

I'm not postive, but fairly sure the second generation CableCard in the Samsung's has not even been hinted at one way or the other. I'm personally hoping for it for future proof, but don't really care about it that much.

The CableCard capabilities in the new sets is one of our open issues ... we don't have any information on it at this point (except that it will support the TV Guide program guide). Samsung was the first major CE (I think) manufacturer to sign up for CableCard II, so don't give up on some of the new VOD, etc. feature just yet.

Samsung was indeed the first to sign up for Cable Card II (actually OCAP - OpenCable™ Application Platform). Here is the link to the press release: Samsung Electronics First to Sign CableLabsŽ Licenses for Two-Way Digital Cable Products (http://www.cablelabs.com/news/pr/2004/04_pr_ocap_samsung_102104.html)

Daphoid:

I agree - it's all about tone. Honestly I'm excited enought about the Samsung's that I'm not complaining about not having more inputs. 2 HDMI's is one of the reasons I've setteled to wait for the newer 1080p models. However, thinking down the road a few years I know I'm gonna wish my set had 3 HDMI inputs. Oh well. I can't even name one set that has 3 HDMI ports - though I'm sure some exist. (And NO - I'm not about to go buy some other set just because it has 3 HDMI ports. This is the not main part of the television, but a selling factor for me and I'm sure lots of other people.)

What I really want is pricing information... See I'm working my second Co-Op term for school right now, and trying to fit the DLP, a StudioTech Component Stand, and a MX-850 remote control, and a Denon DVD-3910..... oh ****, cables! DAMNIT!

I may have to wait on the DVD player :(

- D

EDIT: I JUST REMEMBERED!!! IT'S TAX REFUND TIME!!! YAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYA!!!!!!!!!!

*does happy dance*

In an attempt to compare the different Samsung offerings at 46", I made up the following table - please point out any errors! I took most of the data from the manuals at the Samsung Global Download Center (http://http://www.samsung.com/download/Model_Select.aspx?type=TV&typecode=1&%20subtype=Projection&subtypecode=103&model=HL-P5067W&fileType=UM), which was posted in this thread earlier. The last set was taken from the first post in this thread.

DLP CC HDMI DVI VGA/PC DA IEEE

HL-P4663W HD3 N 1 1 1 N 0
HL-P4667W HD3 Y 1 0 0 Y 0

HL-P4674W HD2+ N 1 1 1 N 0

HL-R4677W HD2+ Y 1 0 0 Y 0

HL-R4667W HD4 Y 1 0 1 Y 2

CC = CableCard
DA = digital optical out

Originally posted by jensph
In an attempt to compare the different Samsung offerings at 46", I made up the following table - please point out any errors! I took most of the data from the manuals at the Samsung Global Download Center (http://http://www.samsung.com/download/Model_Select.aspx?type=TV&typecode=1&%20subtype=Projection&subtypecode=103&model=HL-P5067W&fileType=UM), which was posted in this thread earlier. The last set was taken from the first post in this thread.

DLP CC HDMI DVI VGA/PC DA IEEE

HL-P4663W HD3 N 1 1 1 N 0
HL-P4667W HD3 Y 1 0 0 Y 0

HL-P4674W HD2+ N 1 1 1 N 0

HL-R4677W HD2+ Y 1 0 0 Y 0

HL-R4667W HD4 Y 1 0 1 Y 2

CC = CableCard
DA = digital optical out

HLP4667W ... probably has DVI and VGA ... I don't really 100% trust the accuracy of the TVA specs, but here is a link showing both ...

http://www.tvauthority.com/DLP-TV-HDTV/Samsung-HL-P4667W.asp

Do we really know what the HLR4677W is?

Also, thanks for using CODE ... now I know how to build tables!

Originally posted by UCSB
HLP4667W ... probably has DVI and VGA
The manual for the HL-P4667W appears to say otherwise... I don't know why Samsung would remove them though when upgrading from the HL-P4663W.
Do we really know what the HLR4677W is?
It's true it isn't available, though I figured that I might as well include it, since there's a manual!

I have a question about HDMI on these tvs. Since HDMI carries audio and video I'm assuming there is an optical or coax audio out of the tv to carry the multichannel sound to a receiver?

Originally posted by MikeAlletto
I have a question about HDMI on these tvs. Since HDMI carries audio and video I'm assuming there is an optical or coax audio out of the tv to carry the multichannel sound to a receiver?
No there isn't on the Samsung TV's. but if you go from a HDMI output to a AVR then then from the AVR via HDMI to the TV you would have sound at the AVR and the TV.

Panasonic has a moderately priced AVR that can do that. What it doesn't have is more than one HDMI input. I don't know if it can convert all other inputs for HDMI output.

I seriously doubt the PQ would be better on the 4667 vs the 4674. The 4667 may be marginally better than the 4663. I'm 90% sold on the 4674. I can't foresee ever needing the OTA capability. Plus who wants to spend another $150+ for an ugly antenna and cable I'd have to mount and run. The cable card feature doesn't appeal to me either cause my Dish receiver has a DVR (digital video recorder). I could never go back to "always live" TV after using the DVR for 2+ years. If you have young kids you'll understand why I feel this way.

So the only thing that appeals to me in the 4667 is the floating screen design and the low pricepoint. I would guess if the MSRP was $2699 then the online price would be closer to 2K. That's why I'm still only 90% sold on the 4674. I guess I'll start being more decisive when my tax return actually hits my bank account. Then my dream can become reality.

I agree I can't see needing the OTA capability, and yes I could never go back to live T.V. So we just have to wait for a price drop. Has anyone gone to a store with the price of the upcoming 4667 and asked if they would match it on the 4674?
There is a thread on smudging that's got me slightly nervous, any thoughts?

Originally posted by htwaits
No there isn't [an optical or coax audio out] on the Samsung TV's.
htwaits must have missed my nice table above! The new Samsung models apparently will include a digital optical audio out.

Unfortunately, this isn't likely to be as useful as it may sound. On a thread about the RCA sets (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5089839#post5089839) it has been determined that digital 5.1 audio will not be passed through an HDMI connection - it will be silent if it's not stereo.

I don't think this is just an issue with the RCA sets. See this article for more info:
"But don't be fooled, HDMI does not support 5.1 audio yet." (http://news.designtechnica.com/talkback45.html)

Unfortunately, this isn't likely to be as useful as it may sound. On a thread about the RCA sets it has been determined that digital 5.1 audio will not be passed through an HDMI connection - it will be silent if it's not stereo.

Hmmm...thats kind of a letdown. But saves money I guess if the new samsung dlp tv's don't pass 5.1 anyways. Saves me $300 on an hdmi w/ audio switch.

Hey guys,
Just an FYI, the 4667 and 5067 have only one HDMI in. The VGA and DVI are not there. We have confirmation of this, and pictures.

Originally posted by kin@tvauthority
Hey guys,
Just an FYI, the 4667 and 5067 have only one HDMI in. The VGA and DVI are not there. We have confirmation of this, and pictures.

Thanks Kin! Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing ... you mean the HLP4667W and HLP5067W, right? NOT, the new HLR4667W or HLR5067W. Please check the text on your site with the HLP4667W, it still lists the DVI and VGA inputs, even though they can't be found in the pictures.

I have noticed in the past couple of days that a confusing situation has been coming up. Posts discuss the 4667 or 5067. Unforuntately this is now not specific. There are two models: HLP4667W and HLR4667W. Same in the 50": HLP5067W and HLR5067W. I would encourage anyone posting on these units to include either HLP or HLR in the post to help clarify this situation.

Also, we haven't seen them yet, but there will also be HLP5667W and HLP6167W soon to add to the confusion.

Originally posted by kin@tvauthority
Hey guys,
Just an FYI, the 4667 and 5067 have only one HDMI in. The VGA and DVI are not there. We have confirmation of this, and pictures.

Thanks Kin. Can you confirm that the PQ is exactly the same as the 4663 and 5063 on these new sets?

I ask because when I was previewing these sets in stores, I always seemed to prefer the sharper images on the HLPxx74 series to the HLPxx63 series.

Thanks a ton.

Originally posted by UCSB
I have noticed in the past couple of days that a confusing situation has been coming up. Posts discuss the 4667 or 5067. Unforuntately this is now not specific. There are two models: HLP4667W and HLR4667W. Same in the 50": HLP5067W and HLR5067W. I would encourage anyone posting on these units to include either HLP or HLR in the post to help clarify this situation.

Also, we haven't seen them yet, but there will also be HLP5667W and HLP6167W soon to add to the confusion.

isn't HLR 68 Bill, not 67?

- D

Serenity Now!

I will endeavor to use HLR designations henceforth. My prior references were all to the HLR model line.

Thanks for keeping this thread interesting and informative.

Originally posted by Daphoid
isn't HLR 68 Bill, not 67?

- D

We have a confusing situation on the 720p sets right now. When they added integrated ATSC tuners and CableCard to the HLPxx63W units. The new units became HLPxx67W units. The new 2005 720p tabletops are going to be HLRxx67W. The problems occurs when people comment on or ask questions about 4667, 5067, 5667, 6167 without specifying where it is the HLP or HLR version of that model number.

according to post one and the samsung website:
P's end in 3, 4, or 5 (HL-P***3,4,5)
R's end in 7, or 8 (HL-R***7,8)
not sure about the 6's
edit: I can't seem to find Pxx67 units being mentioned, so that might throw the above out of wack...

edit2: they're only advertizing the 63's, 74's, and 85's on the website.

edit3: When they added integrated ATSC tuners and CableCard to the HLPxx63W units. The new units became HLPxx67W units. Ah, ok. That's probably why they're not mentioned on either post 1 or samsung's website yet.

For clarity what are the differences between HLP and HLR ? Do the HLP's go awaycompletely when the new HLR's come out?

The very short answer is that HLP is 2004 model year, HLR is 2005. I am not sure what schedule Samsung has for "retiring" the HLP sets, but at some point they will stop manufacturing the HLPs and the HLRs will take over. If you look at the first post you will see that there are HLR models with similar features (updated so that they will fall into the HLR series) to the HLPs. This is so that Samsung will have a full product line at various price points.

Originally posted by jensph
htwaits must have missed my nice table above! The new Samsung models apparently will include a digital optical audio out.
I did miss your nice table above! In fact, as a matter in the preservation of my sanity, I'm not going to follow the fine details of any Samsung set that isn't in the store down town. :D

As you point out, HDMI currently has some short comings.

I really don't know for sure that you have to route the audio through another cable to an AVR-- I think my head is hurting. :rolleyes:

I'm on the verge of buying an AVR without HDMI so I will continue the video to TV and sound to AVR tango for a long time into the future. ;)

Originally posted by htwaits
I think my head is hurting. Oh no! When your head starts hurting we're all in a lot of trouble. ;)

I have a sexy Denon AVR-3805, and no it doesn't do HDMI, so I willb e doing the tango for a long while yet, it's a small price to pay for this damn good receiver.

- D

Originally posted by Rebies
Oh no! When your head starts hurting we're all in a lot of trouble. ;)
Not if you wait until you can see the "whites of their images" on the showroom floor. ;) ;)

I can't believe that these new set only have one digital input. Seem like a step backwards. What are they thinking?

Originally posted by TWD
I can't believe that these new set only have one digital input. Seem like a step backwards. What are they thinking?

Which sets are you commenting on? The HLPxx67W's? If the manuals and photos on the TVA site are correct, then they seem like quickly put together sets to just carry the aging HLPxx63W line until the new HLRxx67W's arrive in a few months.

With all this talk of 10,000:1 contrast ratio, does anyone know what the maximum contrast ratio of DVD is, according to the DVD spec?

Originally posted by hobbes382
With all this talk of 10,000:1 contrast ratio, does anyone know what the maximum contrast ratio of DVD is, according to the DVD spec? That is a very interesting question! Assuming black was truly black, and white was truly white - what is the best possible ratio? I assume there is a theoretical max - but really don't know. How close could DVD be to this? How close is the content sent over-the-air or though cable broadcasts? What about HD-DVD and Blueray?

To me, hearing that many devices have 400:1 contrast ratios (many LCD monitors), we can assume this 10,000:1 ratio is more than 20 times as good. But when does it end? Will a display with a 20:000:1 contrast ratio be that much different than a 10:000:1 display? Can the human eye pick up such differences?

Well ... I've been at it again. I have realized that I can go as large as a 61" in my installation. But, that is it. The 67" will definitely not fit. But, the 61" fits easily (with a couple of cosmetic trade-offs).

50" - Series 78 - PHOTO (http://img220.exs.cx/img220/1045/bb50web1tn.jpg)
56" - Series 78 - PHOTO (http://img183.exs.cx/img183/1294/bb56web4ya.jpg)
61" - Series 78 - PHOTO (http://img220.exs.cx/img220/6599/bb6178web26ig.jpg)

56" - Series 68 - PHOTO (http://img183.exs.cx/img183/9307/fs56web8yl.jpg)
61" - Series 68 - PHOTO (http://img222.exs.cx/img222/944/fs61web3tx.jpg)

In general, the longer I look at my high resolution prints, the more comfortable I am getting in going with a larger screen size.

UCSB,

Well one thought - I'm sure you might have already considered... This looks like a nice house indeed, so doing the following might be out of the question.

What about cutting the vertical beams and fitting the TV so that it is flat with the front of the wood. (Front of the TV is exactly flush with the front of the horizontal and vertical shelves in the built-in-bookcase.) Personally I think it would look really good that way! Then again if it were my house - I'm not sure if I would want to do it. More or less, the TV would then come with the house if you were to ever sell it. So it could be one of the stupider things I've ever suggested too. Just jumps out at me that way and had to suggest it.

Originally posted by Rebies
UCSB,

Well one thought - I'm sure you might have already considered... This looks like a nice house indeed, so doing the following might be out of the question.

What about cutting the vertical beams and fitting the TV so that it is flat with the front of the wood. (Front of the TV is exactly flush with the front of the horizontal and vertical shelves in the built-in-bookcase.) Personally I think it would look really good that way! Then again if it were my house - I'm not sure if I would want to do it. More or less, the TV would then come with the house if you were to ever sell it. So it could be one of the stupider things I've ever suggested too. Just jumps out at me that way and had to suggest it.

The scale of the cabinet gets a little lost in the photos ... but, it was custom designed and built, I think replacement cost is around $7,000+. The 50" set slides in perfectly. The 56" set will be about 2.5" in front of vertical trim. OK, and will still look nice. The 61" set will be about 6" in front of vertical trim. But, the stabilization foot, which I didn't put in the photo, should lift it up and present a slightly better look than in the photos. But, it will probably look pretty huge on the cabinet. I think the actual TV's will look a little better than these photos.

I don't want to modify the cabinet because there is extensive matching cabinetry in the same area, just outside the field of view in the photo. Another reason I a don't want to modify the cabinet for one TV is that until these sets get better than they are right now, I like the idea of keeping my options open to upgrade every year or so.

:) Thanks for the suggestion.

No problem. I had to suggest it. I totally understand not wanting to modify the house itself! As it's not my house it's very easy to suggest such a modification! Not as easy to actually do though! At least you have a few months to consider it - either way.

UCSB,

Is it too soon to ask Steve P. again if the 50" -- HLR5078W is a real production unit.

I have width contraint of 49" I am sure after reading a few posts that my situation is not unique.

Right now I am thinking of the 4674 but would probably wait if I knew that the 50" -- HLR5078W especially since this model supposedly eliminates or greatly reduces RBE and is also somewhat future proff with the 1080 P.

June wouldn't be that long if I new it would be an actual unit that fir my cabinet perfectly.

Thx

Originally posted by bjpjjs
UCSB,

Is it too soon to ask Steve P. again if the 50" -- HLR5078W is a real production unit.

I have width contraint of 49" I am sure after reading a few posts that my situation is not unique.

Right now I am thinking of the 4674 but would probably wait if I knew that the 50" -- HLR5078W especially since this model supposedly eliminates or greatly reduces RBE and is also somewhat future proff with the 1080 P.

June wouldn't be that long if I new it would be an actual unit that fir my cabinet perfectly.

Thx

My opinion is that it is too early to ask Steve P. about the 50". It hasn't even been four weeks since CES and probably only two weeks since the last time Administrator asked Steve P. about this. My personal opinion is that we will need to wait unit at least March 1st or later.

If it was me, I would just assume that the 50" will be built. Here is my logic ... I think that Samsung wants to help the dealer network and continue to protect their highly profitable more expensive product lines. The dealer network and highend exposure is critical to that strategy. The smaller sets in the past have been the higher volume sets. Since the 68 series is functionally equivalent to the 78 series and will be sold in volume discounters, why not give the dealers something desirable and unique. This is where the 50" comes in.

I'd just like to remind you, and everyone, that the June target date may be very weak. Will it happen? We just don't know. Last year there was a huge group of people that spent the entire year waiting for the HLPxx74's ... they were probably six months late. This frustration is still evident in HTwaits comments above about just waiting until these TV's are in the showrooms (BTW ... a big part of me feels the same way).

Administrator ... we haven't heard from you for a while ... bump the thread to let us know you're still out there and well.

Here, feel sorry for me:

All I have to use until my Sammy arrives is a 24" 4:3 Television... a very nice 24" television mind you (Sony Wega), but still.

So all of you big TV's already, can go in a small hole and die.

I mean that in the nicest possible way :D

- D

Originally posted by Rebies
That is a very interesting question! Assuming black was truly black, and white was truly white - what is the best possible ratio? I assume there is a theoretical max - but really don't know. How close could DVD be to this? How close is the content sent over-the-air or though cable broadcasts? What about HD-DVD and Blueray?

To me, hearing that many devices have 400:1 contrast ratios (many LCD monitors), we can assume this 10,000:1 ratio is more than 20 times as good. But when does it end? Will a display with a 20:000:1 contrast ratio be that much different than a 10:000:1 display? Can the human eye pick up such differences?

I don't know what the best possible ratio is but I think the more relevant question is what is the maximum contrast ratio the human eye is capable of discerning.

I found an interesting evaluation of the importance of contrast ratio at:
http://www.plus-vision.com/en/product/projector/contrast/1500.html (http://)

Originally posted by bjpjjs

I have width contraint of 49" I am sure after reading a few posts that my situation is not unique.

Right now I am thinking of the 4674 but would probably wait if I knew that the 50" -- HLR5078W especially since this model supposedly eliminates or greatly reduces RBE and is also somewhat future proff with the 1080 P.

June wouldn't be that long if I new it would be an actual unit that fir my cabinet perfectly.

bjpjjs,

Is your width constraint a firm 49" exactly? If you could go an extra .9 of an inch the HLP5674W would fit. It is 49.9" in width with its super slim bezel.

Of course I understand about wanting to wait for the 1080P improvements. I'm in the same boat on that aspect. I was getting ready to pull the trigger on the 5674, but now am looking at waiting till June.

And my width constraints will be right around 55". Which makes me really want to know the actual physical dimensions of the new HLR 68 & 78 lines. I'm hoping that the guesses to them being close to the 63 line measurements will be very close. If the new 61" HLR6168 is right around 56" wide, I might be able to get it into my setup. :)

I have done a little more planning on my setup and now have a pretty good idea where the 50", 56", and 61" will sit on my cabinet. Here are some photos showing exact positions.

50" Series 78 - Flush with TRIM - PHOTO (http://img219.exs.cx/img219/2739/measure508zl.jpg)
56" Series 68/78 - Small Offset to TRIM - PHOTO (http://img219.exs.cx/img219/538/measure568ow.jpg)
61" Series 68/78 - Large Offset to TRIM - PHOTO #1 (http://img219.exs.cx/img219/2049/measure61a0ot.jpg) - PHOTO #2 (http://img212.exs.cx/img212/8781/measure61b2sg.jpg)

Originally posted by Daphoid
Here, feel sorry for me:

All I have to use until my Sammy arrives is a 24" 4:3 Television... a very nice 24" television mind you (Sony Wega), but still.

So all of you big TV's already, can go in a small hole and die.

I mean that in the nicest possible way :D

- D

On the positive side ... you will REALLY appreciate the larger screen when you get it. :) ... especially on 16:9 material. Until then just pull your chair a little closer to your set. :D

I'm already sitting right against the wall with my feet up inside the hole resting on my TV stand :)

*sighs and wishes for a bigger screen*

- D

(For those who are having problem(s) with the Super Bowl...go to the Animal Planet station and watch the...Puppy Bowl...yes, the Puppy Bowl!)

A 24" Sony can produce a very nice picture. The best pictures I've ever seen off of Dish and DirecTV were off a 24" Sony XBR set. Trouble is that you do have to sit back a bit to not see the interlaced lines and you lose that big picture immersion effect.

It will be fun to check out the new Sammy's. Perhaps I should get involved in a different hobby for 2-3 months to make the time seem to pass more quickly.

The 61" and larger 68 / 78 series sets will have a stabilization base with a small foot that extends out in front of the set. Does anyone with an existing HLP6163W know if the HLP6163W stabilization base lifts the TV up off the stand? If so, how much of a gap is there between the stand and the outer parts of the TV beyond the stabilization base. I'm trying to understand how a 61" 68 / 78 series might look with the stabilization base attached sitting on my cabinet.

Originally posted by Tom_Bombadil
Perhaps I should get involved in a different hobby for 2-3 months to make the time seem to pass more quickly.

I know the feeling. :)

Originally posted by UCSB
The 61" and larger 68 / 78 series sets will have a stabilization base with a small foot that extends out in front of the set. Does anyone with an existing HLP6163W know if the HLP6163W stabilization base lifts the TV up off the stand? If so, how much of a gap is there between the stand and the outer parts of the TV beyond the stabilization base. I'm trying to understand how a 61" 68 / 78 series might look with the stabilization base attached sitting on my cabinet.

I was able to answer my own question with the technical drawings on the Samsung site. If anyone is planning their installation and would like to see the stand clearance on the current HLP6163W, here is the technical drawing.

http://product.samsung.com/pdf/hlp6163.pdf

Originally posted by UCSB
The 61" and larger 68 / 78 series sets will have a stabilization base with a small foot that extends out in front of the set. Does anyone with an existing HLP6163W know if the HLP6163W stabilization base lifts the TV up off the stand? If so, how much of a gap is there between the stand and the outer parts of the TV beyond the stabilization base. I'm trying to understand how a 61" 68 / 78 series might look with the stabilization base attached sitting on my cabinet. I took the base off my HLP6163 and it was definitely more stable...and looked nicer being it was flush with the stand.

More 1 chip, colored wheeled, rainbow producing DLP's, I'm not excited.


Just say "no" to one chip DLP!!

Auditor,

I'm sorry you aren't excited, but I sure am!

I'm also sorry that you are in the very small and insignificant minority of people that do see the rainbows.

Please stop raining on our parade.

I watched the Super Bowl on a 50" Samsung DLP. I'm not sure of the model number, but the only thing I saw was a fantastic picture with no rainbows. I tried to see them, but I didn't.

I can't wait for the HL-R models to hit the stores.

I pulled the trigger on a 5674, it'll be here Friday. I'm set to hook it up to my Samsung SIR TS360 DTV receiver. Plan to use HDMI from receiver to TV, and optical from DTV receiver to a/v receiver. TV does have optical out. Two questions:
1) Is it better to use the TV's optical out to go to my a/v receiver, or just use the DTV receiver's optical out? How does the receiver "know" which sound signal/source (air, cable, DTV) to send to the a/v receiver if I use mthe optical out from the DTV receiver?
2) Do I need to get someone to calibrate it (Virginia Beach) if I mostly watch TV vice DVD? What's the best way to calibrate it on my own, if that makes more sense?
Thanks to UCSB, Administrator, and everyone else in this thread for helpful posts.

My samsung 360 receiver has a dvi output not a hdmi.

Originally posted by jwv651
I took the base off my HLP6163 and it was definitely more stable...and looked nicer being it was flush with the stand.

Did the same and agree wholly with your statement. With UCSB's set-up, though, it might actually be better to leave the base on. (But it's easy enough to take it off and put it on that he can try it both ways.).

I'm hoping the bases that are pictured on the hlr6768 and 7078 (if it comes into being) are also removable in the same way.

Originally posted by mshap
Auditor,

I'm sorry you aren't excited, but I sure am!

I'm also sorry that you are in the very small and insignificant minority of people that do see the rainbows.

Please stop raining on our parade.

I watched the Super Bowl on a 50" Samsung DLP. I'm not sure of the model number, but the only thing I saw was a fantastic picture with no rainbows. I tried to see them, but I didn't.

I can't wait for the HL-R models to hit the stores.

I don't want to rain on your parade because I know outside of rainbows DLP's look really good, however I'm going to keep complaining until some company decides to release a 3 chip DLP, I don't care if its one TV that cost 15-20K, a few rich guys will buy them, I just want to see the ball get rolling.

If not, as more and more 3 chip 1080P Sony SXRD's and 1080P JVC D-ILA hit the market, DLP's are going to die off. If you check out Sony's marketing of the SXRD Qualia, they are on a full frontal assault on one chip DLP.

Auditor55, complain to the companies that manufacture the sets. Those of us on this site are well aware of the RBE issue and are willing to deal with it. Anyone who has spent five minutes on this site knows your position.

Originally posted by Danboy68
I pulled the trigger on a 5674, it'll be here Friday. I'm set to hook it up to my Samsung SIR TS360 DTV receiver. Plan to use HDMI from receiver to TV, and optical from DTV receiver to a/v receiver. TV does have optical out. Two questions:
1) Is it better to use the TV's optical out to go to my a/v receiver, or just use the DTV receiver's optical out? How does the receiver "know" which sound signal/source (air, cable, DTV) to send to the a/v receiver if I use mthe optical out from the DTV receiver?
2) Do I need to get someone to calibrate it (Virginia Beach) if I mostly watch TV vice DVD? What's the best way to calibrate it on my own, if that makes more sense?
Thanks to UCSB, Administrator, and everyone else in this thread for helpful posts.

1) DTV to receiver via optical. I don't think you TV will pass the audio back to the receiver anyway. Audio will be sent to receiver and tv both so just disable the tv internal speakers via the menu.

2) Use AVIA or DVE DVD disks to calibrate.

Originally posted by Danboy68
I pulled the trigger on a 5674, it'll be here Friday. I'm set to hook it up to my Samsung SIR TS360 DTV receiver. Plan to use HDMI from receiver to TV, and optical from DTV receiver to a/v receiver. TV does have optical out. Two questions:
1) Is it better to use the TV's optical out to go to my a/v receiver, or just use the DTV receiver's optical out? How does the receiver "know" which sound signal/source (air, cable, DTV) to send to the a/v receiver if I use mthe optical out from the DTV receiver?
2) Do I need to get someone to calibrate it (Virginia Beach) if I mostly watch TV vice DVD? What's the best way to calibrate it on my own, if that makes more sense?
Thanks to UCSB, Administrator, and everyone else in this thread for helpful posts.

1) DTV to receiver via optical. I don't think you TV will pass the audio back to the receiver anyway. Audio will be sent to receiver and tv both so just disable the tv internal speakers via the menu.

2) Use AVIA or DVE DVD disks to calibrate.

Originally posted by Auditor55
More 1 chip, colored wheeled, rainbow producing DLP's, I'm not excited.


Just say "no" to one chip DLP!!

Who makes a multiple chip DLP set?

No one makes a single chip DLP RPTV.
I believe Runco and SIM2 make 3 chip FP DLP.

EDIT: Oops.. I meant a 3 chip RPTV

Originally posted by abdo
Who makes a multiple chip DLP set?

Nobody ... and since nothing was introduced at CES this year there won't be any three chip DLPs in 2005. The closest competitor is Sony's Silicon X-tal Reflective Display (SXRD) technology, which is based on LCD technology. But, it is a niche product because of its high price (70" set, $13,000 ... I think).

Correct on the price. See the "QUALIA 006 Owner's Thread" usually near the top of of this area. From all reports, probably the "best" available set. However I think I'll go for one of the new HLR sets for 1/2 to 1/3 of the price. 70" is too much for me and it doesn't look like Sony will have a smaller set out this year.

Originally posted by vlapietra
No one makes a single chip DLP RPTV.
I believe Runco and SIM2 make 3 chip FP DLP.

They need to bring it to RPTV's or else DLP's will die. Because I honestly believe the rainbow effect is begining to take its toll on DLP purchases.

Originally posted by Auditor55
They need to bring it to RPTV's or else DLP's will die. Because I honestly believe the rainbow effect is begining to take its toll on DLP purchases.

I think I've heard you mention this before . . . .

Originally posted by Ed_Newt
I think I've heard you mention this before . . . .
I think that's an echo your are hearing. ;)

I've read in this thread and mention in some other threasds that the 2005 JVC D-ILA loooked very good as exibited at the 2005 CES. Can anyone tell me how JVC's new 2005 1080i models compare with the Samsung's new 68/78 1080i models?

The 1080p JVC compared very well with the 1080p DLP's. I would say the D-ILA looked every bit as good as the Samsung. Since they're not expecting it to make market until the fall at the earliest, I'll probably stick with the DLP.

This picture is from a Japanese CE site.

Here is a picture of the 6168 as well (this is a Samsung thread, anyway).

I found Samsung's technical drawings for the HLPxx63W series useful in planning my setup ... so, I have added links to these technical drawings into the Measurements sections of the 67, 68, and 78 series spec's in POST #1.

I'm confused. when do the new model DLPs hit the market - the 2005 models. I thought a new model is hitting the stores as we speak and it looks nothing like the pictures shown here. It has an all black frame. how many DLP TV's will samsun release this year??

If it looks like this:

http://product.samsung.com/images/prod/product03/b2c_m_hlp4663.jpg

It is the HLPxx67W, where xx is screen size (50, for example). TV's that start with a model number prefix of HLP are 2004 sets and models based on those 2004 sets. The HLPxx63W series was introduced last May. The HLPxx67W is being introduced right now. It is essentially a HLPxx63W with a digital ASTC tuner and CableCard support. It looks like they deleted the DVI and VGA inputs on the HLPxx63W's when they created these new HLPxx67W's.

The new 2005 models will have a HLR prefix. They are described in detail in POST #1 of this thread. Estimated release dates are also shown, but release dates can slip.

If you go to www.SamsungUSA.com you will be able to see all of the HLPxx63W units. For each of these (46", 50", 56", 61") there will be a HLPxx67W unit here in the near future. To the best of our knowledge these are the last of the HLP's that will be introduced. The next introductions will be the HLR 2005 models.

Originally posted by 8inchworm
I'm confused. when do the new model DLPs hit the market - the 2005 models. I thought a new model is hitting the stores as we speak and it looks nothing like the pictures shown here. It has an all black frame. how many DLP TV's will samsun release this year??
You should read the first post of this thread - the information is all posted within that post. Either April 2005 or June 2005 - depending on the series of TV from Samsung.

Has there been any confirmation from Samsung that the 67 seriers will be out in stores in April? I know the first post in this thread says April, just curious if that was just our best guess at this time or if Samsung has officially stated that it will be out in April. I think I will be purchasing the 4667 when they hit the stores.

TVA has the HLR5668 shipping 4/1. I see thats inconsistent with whats in the front of this thread. Is this new info?

btw, UCSB (and everyone else contributing) great job on maintaining this thread... it's keeping my interest in DLP alive. (I was disheartened last year when I found out the 4663 gave me headaches after around 15 minutes) So I really appreciate the information being compiled in this thread.

Originally posted by Ed_Newt
I think I've heard you mention this before . . . .

Of course, for all I know you could work Samsung, Mits or Panasonic. If so you are going to keep hearing it from me.


I WANT 3 CHIP DLP RPTV AND I WANT IT KNOW!!:D

Originally posted by bhchan
btw, UCSB (and everyone else contributing) great job on maintaining this thread... it's keeping my interest in DLP alive. (I was disheartened last year when I found out the 4663 gave me headaches after around 15 minutes) So I really appreciate the information being compiled in this thread.

I got a hlp6163 back in August, right after they came out, and I too have eye strain for the first few weeks, getting used to the dlp and probably also too much tv watching! But after that 'break in' period for me, I have never had a problem (Darwinian evolution on a rapid time scale!).

Originally posted by NovaHokie
Has there been any confirmation from Samsung that the 67 seriers will be out in stores in April? I know the first post in this thread says April, just curious if that was just our best guess at this time or if Samsung has officially stated that it will be out in April. I think I will be purchasing the 4667 when they hit the stores.

April is the ** official ** date from the Samsung CES press release. In March, you can start calling your retailer to see if the new TV's are in their computer with a delivery date. Last year the HLPxx63W models were scheduled for the March/April timeframe, we started to see them in volume in May. That was about four weeks after the earliest we expected them.

Originally posted by yatra
TVA has the HLR5668 shipping 4/1. I see thats inconsistent with whats in the front of this thread. Is this new info?

NO ... I would stick with the June (earliest) date at the top of this thread. TVA has been following this thread and hopefully will comment on (or correct) the page you found on their site.

I'm guessing that the 4/1 date is a hidden april fool's joke. :D

UCSB, you have a typo in your first post. HRLxx67W

Anyway, have we been able to confirm the contrast on the HLRxx67W series yet. I think the concensus is that it will be some sort of improved HD3 chip, aka HD4 using wobulation. However if the contrast is not at least 2000 than it's really no better than the HLPXX63 series.

Originally posted by Jamers
UCSB, you have a type in your first post. HRLxx67W

Anyway, have we been able to confirm the contrast on the HLRxx67W series yet. I think the concensus is that it will be some sort of improved HD3 chip, aka HD4 using wobulation. However if the contrast is not at least 2000 than it's really be no better than the HLPXX63 series.

Thanks for finding the typo ... it's now fixed.

The 67 series product cards at the show listed the CR as 2000:1. I would consider the 2000:1 CR confirmed at this point. This is the same CR listed by other manufacturers that also slipped and listed the DLP chip as HD4. It is safe to count on an improved CR and a new DLP chip (plus other improvements). This is an improvement over the current HLPxx63W sets with a CR of 1500:1 and the HD3. We will have to wait until the actual sets are out, but I would expect a modest improvement in performance over the current sets.

TetsujinWave,

I have seen all of your pictures of CES and think that you have given us the best coverage of the show that I have seen. I am one of those unfortunates that gets vaguely nauseated when I try to watch a DLP, and so I have begun to follow the progress of LCOS. The Sony is out of the question for me because 70" is just too big. That leaves the JVC and the LG. You have seen all three of them....which one would you think will be have the best picture quality and which one will be the most bang for the buck? Thank you for your reply!

Disappointed...

I was hoping for a thin bezel 46" 1080p to replace my 720p set. Have a rather small media niche.

tomboyter,

I am humbled by your kind words--thank you very much.

First things first. I have, in fact, only seen two of them. The LG LCOS was there, but not in public view (one of those "behind closed doors" demos). That's why the only picture I have of it is from the documentation brochure from the LG booth. As such, I cannot comment on the picture quality of that set. From what I have heard from fellow attendees that were able to see it is that the PQ is excellent but a notch below the Samsung, the Sony and the JVC.

Cnet gave the Samsung the best in show, but if you've read my posts you know how I feel. The Qualia has the best picture of all the 1080p sets I saw. I say that as a fan of DLP technology. However, the difference in PQ between the D-ILA, the DLP and the SXRD is small enough that I would be quite happy owning any of them.

There's something else you should know--all three of the LCOS sets are 70" (the LG is actually 71"). Everyone expects Sony to make ~60" versions of the SXRD, but there are no clear plans yet that I'm aware of. JVC's sets are supposed to arrive in the fall, but as I understand it they're rolling out the 70" first with the new 720p D-ILA sets, with the 61" to follow later. As far as price goes, the JVC will probably be the best LCOS value.

I received my email newsletter from Insight Media today. It contained their CES buzz awards. In their IMAGE QUALITY category here is what they ** awarded **.

Image Quality

Texas Instruments 70-inch DLP-RPTV:

The Best Buzz award for image quality goes to Texas Instruments for its 70-inch DLP-RPTV in the booth on the CES show floor. The demo included all of TI's latest in image quality advancements. The demonstration featured a high-quality musical animation displayed on a screen with 1920 x 1080 resolution. Awesome!

Thanks TetsujinWave for the photo above ... it is unique in that it shows what the stabilization base will be like on the larger units!

TetsujinWave's photo now changes my mind re: removal of the base. As it appears in this shot, the base also makes the speaker area also seem as if it were floating. It's very attractive!

Thank you UCSB. I have a few pictures of the TI demo you're referring to--a couple showing the music video, some showing scenes from the upcoming movie Madagascar (that didn't turnout so well), and some of ESPNHD. I wish the Star Wars demo pictures turned out better. The Episode III trailer looked exquisite on it.

It surely would be good to know if Samsung is really going to produce the 70" unit, the HLR7078. Is it too soon for any of you to bug Steve P.?

Originally posted by millerwill
It surely would be good to know if Samsung is really going to produce the 70" unit, the HLR7078. Is it too soon for any of you to bug Steve P.?

I was one of the first adopters of Samsung DLP's when they first came out. I actually received one of the first 43" HLM models in the US. Steve and I worked together several years ago to feed AVS info on the new models along with FTLee. I've pinged him, but have not received a reply.

I selfishly want to know more because I have several purchases of the new HLR sets pending.

Here's a second picture. Does anyone remember the name of this demo? I'd often see it running on DLP's in local B&M stores.

Originally posted by Tom_Bombadil
It looks like the HLP x67 series is for those who cannot wait. Consider that they have lesser contrast numbers, in all liklihood less sophisticated electronics, and higher MSRP prices.

If Samsung can hit their April ship date on the HLR's, the HLP x67's are going to have one of the shortest shelf lifes I've ever seen.

What do you mean by the the HLP x67's are going to have one of the shortest shelf lifes I've ever seen???

Originally posted by landrigh
What do you mean by the the HLP x67's are going to have one of the shortest shelf lifes I've ever seen???

The HLPxx67W series is an update on last years HLPxx63W that is being introduced right now. If Samsung starts shipping the new 2005 HLRxx67W product line in April (as they announced at CES), then these new models will replace the older HLP models. The HLPxx67W will only be sold from February until April or May when the new 2005 HLR line shows up in stores.

T-Wave...Thanks for your reply and your insights. I guess from what you said that the only options in my size range are the DLP's and the D-ILA @ 61". I remember that you said you had a blinding headache after leaving the Samsung booth, and that coincides with my own experience with viewing a Samsung HLN and a Mits 525 for about a half hour. Watching Seabiscuit for that amount of time left me feeling somewhat seasick. You say that you are a fan of DLP, and I wonder how you can handle the eyestrain of the single chip device? I have a spot that is absolutely tailor made for an HLR-5078, but unless the 1080p sets are MUCH different than the 720 models to date, I don't think that I could get used to it. Which would you prefer if price was no object...the DLP or the D-ILA ?

T-Wave......heh, I like it...... I'm calling you that from now on.

- D

Originally posted by tomboyter
You say that you are a fan of DLP, and I wonder how you can handle the eyestrain of the single chip device? I have a spot that is absolutely tailor made for an HLR-5078, but unless the 1080p sets are MUCH different than the 720 models to date, I don't think that I could get used to it. Which would you prefer if price was no object...the DLP or the D-ILA ?

I readily admit that I am a great fan of dlp. But I also admit that when I got my hlp6163 this past August, I had eye strain for a couple of weeks (probably watching too much, and I like to sit pretty close, ~10', to get the 'full experience'). But after this 'break in' period, I've never noticed any problem. And I have read that this is a relatively common experience, that the PQ on these sets is so sharp that it takes ones eyes some while to adjust.

Originally posted by duffin
I was one of the first adopters of Samsung DLP's when they first came out. I actually received one of the first 43" HLM models in the US. Steve and I worked together several years ago to feed AVS info on the new models along with FTLee. I've pinged him, but have not received a reply.

I selfishly want to know more because I have several purchases of the new HLR sets pending.

Duffin: Thanks much for your comments and efforts to obtain information. Look forward to hearing anything you find out.

Originally posted by tomboyter
T-Wave...Thanks for your reply and your insights. I guess from what you said that the only options in my size range are the DLP's and the D-ILA @ 61". I remember that you said you had a blinding headache after leaving the Samsung booth, and that coincides with my own experience with viewing a Samsung HLN and a Mits 525 for about a half hour. Watching Seabiscuit for that amount of time left me feeling somewhat seasick. You say that you are a fan of DLP, and I wonder how you can handle the eyestrain of the single chip device? I have a spot that is absolutely tailor made for an HLR-5078, but unless the 1080p sets are MUCH different than the 720 models to date, I don't think that I could get used to it. Which would you prefer if price was no object...the DLP or the D-ILA ?

I never said that at all.

I do not get headaches when watching the DLP sets. I believe you're confusing me with another poster. I did say that I can make myself see rainbows on the DLP, which is true. I just don't see them in the course of normal viewing. I'm very wary of this because I believe lots of people are watching DLP's expecting to see rainbows or get headaches--and while I realize some people have this very real problem with the sets, I believe a lot of it is psychosomatic. Just my opinion.

As for your other question, if price were no object, I'd get the Qualia. I believe I would give a slight preference to the D-ILA, if pressed between the JVC and the Samsung, but I wish I could have seen the D-ILA with more material. The Samsung demo was much more varied than the short demo shown by JVC, and I feel more comfortable judging its real world performance. On the CES thread, I should have qualified my very slight preference of the D-ILA (which I stand by). With all factors considered (ETA, price, picture, connections, aesthetics), I have a 6168 in my future.

Now, I have to get ready to watch my Tar Heels run over the Blue Devils. ;)

(edit)--oh well, you can't have everything...

T-Wave, (yes I like it too :) ) keep those pictures coming! I have this fear that you are going to run out of them before the sets arrive. My 6168 is on order with TVA and I'm not sure I will survive until June (let's hope those rumors of possible early arrival are true). In the mean time your pictures keep me going. Thanks!

TetsujinWave,

Please stop posting the updates. With all the drooling that I've been doing, I've gone into a severe dehydrated state. :D :D :D

T-wave: since we have gone OT several times let me ask if you got to see any Optoma DLP's while at the show?

Originally posted by hobbes382
With all this talk of 10,000:1 contrast ratio, does anyone know what the maximum contrast ratio of DVD is, according to the DVD spec?

hobbes382:
Check your PM...

I also want to know more about the new Optoma DLPs shown at CES. I am interested in a 50" HD2+ set.

Originally posted by TetsujinWave
I have a 6168 in my future.

After studying my planned installation photos, it looks like the 56" set is going to be my best overall fit. That means that I am either getting the HLR5668W or HLR5678W. TetsujinWave, it seems like you have been consistently in favor of the 68 series looks from the beginning, what are your thoughts in comparing the two cabinet styles?

I'm not T-Wave, but I'll pop in anyways...

For me, the 78 is nicer, it just has a luxury look to it, and for the price, seems worthy. The 68 seems a little more "gimmicky", yes the set is awesome, but I'm not sure about the floating screen bit, although it's not bad looking persay.

It'll come down to price in the end, if I can get both 68 and 78, and there's a big price difference, I'll get the 68 first.

- D

Thanks D! I know you have spent as much time thinking about these models as anyone!

Well, in my case...the 6168 is my choice (as of now) to replace my deceased Philips 55" HDTV (which died due to a power surge in 10/04). I really need to see the set in action when it arrives in the stores. The floating screen is what I like and the base also makes the speaker box look like it also floats.

I'll chime in too. I really like the 68 and every time T-Wave posts another picture I like it better.

Yes, it's T-Wave's photo (no. 9 above) which really does it for me. It's the first shot of this set that brings out the look of the set with the stabilization base sitting on a flat surface. The set now looks like it has a floating screen and a floating speaker box. (I think the set would look sensational on a black base!)

I used the same photo to explore what the 61" would look like in my installation. At this point in time, I'm thinking the 61" just looks too big on my cabinet.

PHOTO (http://img233.exs.cx/img233/2931/fs6168rev2web1ek.jpg)

But, this photo gives you a feel for the look with the stabilization base.

TW;


Could you elaborate for me your comments "... with all factors considered (ETA, price, picture, connections, aesthetics), I have a 6168 in my future".

I understand the the JVC 61FH96 is expected to hit the streets until Fall '05, but I don't know much about the price, picture, connections, aesthetics of the new JVC's.

Thanks

It depends if you like the glossy border that the 78 has. It is largely a matter of taste. I personally don't like the glare.

My preference (without having seen any in the 'flesh') is to have the stabilzing base removed; I think the 6768 (I'm going for all the real estate I can get**) will look better sitting flush down on my stand; my present 6163 certainly does. And I would actually like to get a 70"-er if it comes into being, which will presumably be the7078. I don't think I like the glossy border of the xx78's as well, but will reserve judgment to make a final decision when I can see a 6768 and a 7078 side by side.

**I will have a ~10 ft viewing distance, and with a "1.5 x diagonal" minimum viewing distance, should certainly be able to handle 67" or even 70", since they are 1080p.

I'm a late joiner here, but I'd like to clear up a couple of technical understandings...

The speed of the colorwheel doesn't change with additional segments... even multiples of a full rotation are required for each frame. The duration of each color stripe's subframe exposure will be shorter since there will be one additional subframe. This might make rainbows harder to see, or at least show a different kind of rainbow with the 7 segment wheel...

There IS one 1080p broadcastable format - 24 frames per second. This is favored for conversion of film to HD video (telecine). Tuners perform 3:2 pulldown to convert it to 30 fps.

HD DVD will NOT be 1080i only... it will support all ATSC formats.

One of the important differences of new 1080p displays is being overlooked - it's 60 Hz framerate. With lesser sets, displays are forced to display a kind of lowest common denominator when showing the other HD format (720p & 1080i) similar to 720i30... with a 1080p60 upconversion, both 720p and 1080i can be converted without losing information... you get the full 60 frames (temporal res) for smooth motion from 720p broadcasts, and the full spatial res of 1080i... best of both worlds.

Originally posted by profjoe
T-wave: since we have gone OT several times let me ask if you got to see any Optoma DLP's while at the show?

I have a few of the SV50HF from the TI booth. It is an HD4 50" set with a 2000:1 contrast ratio, from what I understand.

Originally posted by UCSB
After studying my planned installation photos, it looks like the 56" set is going to be my best overall fit. That means that I am either getting the HLR5668W or HLR5678W. TetsujinWave, it seems like you have been consistently in favor of the 68 series looks from the beginning, what are your thoughts in comparing the two cabinet styles?

I wish I had a more "impressive" answer than the one I'm about to give. They both look nice, but the black lacquer models seem to pick up fingerprints very easily. I was going to get a 78 series anyway, because Samsung reps at the show said that the 68 series would only have one HDMI port (as opposed to two on the 78 series--three reps on two different days told me that). However, since Steve Panosian has stated the sets will be identical except for the case, I'll go for the 6168.

See for yourself. Here's a picture of the 7078. Fantastic picture, but the Samsung rep's fingerprints are all over it.

And here, you can see the 68 series cabinet. Much more resistant to fingerprints.

BTW, UCSB and I are working on a project that I believe all of you will enjoy.

Originally posted by TetsujinWave
BTW, UCSB and I are working on a project that I believe all of you will enjoy.

If that project includes detailed schematics of the actual 68 & 78 series units that will be released - along with firm streets dates for them - then YES we will certainly enjoy them!!!

;)


<must keep repeating - "I can make it till June, I can make it till June, I can.....">

Lets not get greedy. I'll settle for just the firm release date :D

Originally posted by hadleyfarm
TW;


Could you elaborate for me your comments "... with all factors considered (ETA, price, picture, connections, aesthetics), I have a 6168 in my future".

I understand the the JVC 61FH96 is expected to hit the streets until Fall '05, but I don't know much about the price, picture, connections, aesthetics of the new JVC's.

Thanks

The 70" is rumored to be around 9-10K. That makes for a reasonably priced 60", but probably not as low as the DLP. It turns out I was wrong about the connections, I'm told the D-ILA and the DLP will both have dual HDMI ports, so that's a wash. The PQ of both sets are superb. I gave a slight edge to the JVC, but I also temper that with my preference of current DLP picture over the current D-ILA models.

Why?

At a trade show, every technology is presented in the best controlled situation possible. Every set is going to be showing clips and demos that "put its best foot forward." The JVC demo, while very impressive, was much less varied than the Samsung demo. I also had more time to scrutinize the DLP's picture (kudos to the reps there for that). So I feel it would be premature to say it would perform in my house the same way. Perhaps I'm being overly cautious, but it is my $4000+ purchase.

Also, I like the styling of the DLP better--that and the chance to get it in June are my reasons.

Originally posted by ronshock
If that project includes detailed schematics of the actual 68 & 78 series units that will be released - along with firm streets dates for them - then YES we will certainly enjoy them!!!

;)


<must keep repeating - "I can make it till June, I can make it till June, I can.....">

I did not mean to get your hopes up--I have no idea when they wil be released, but I'm sure Steve will tell one of his contacts on the board when he decides to make it available.

What I'm talking about is much more modest--I apologize.

T-Wave,

If your apologies include more photos...then...!

T-Wave

Don't take us seriously! We're just look for a way to pass the time until June. Anything to keep us from thinking about the fact that we are not watching right now.

OK ... TetsujinWave and I have been discussing creating a high resolution photo area. TetsujinWave shot his CES show coverage using a 5MP camera. So there is a lot more detail in the photos. The project that we have been discussing is for TetsujinWave to send me the photos on a CD. Then I will prep them in Photoshop and upload high resolution versions to Image Shack and create a HiRes only section in Post #1.

We are just getting the project going ... it will take some time to mail the CD from the east coast to the west and then I will start building the HiRes area.

Since we have a little time before I actually start to create the photos feel free to share any ideas about how I should format the photos. One option is for me to try and retain as much of the resolution as I can given Image Shack's 1 MB limit on file size. This would work well for broadband users under Windows XP because XP will automatically format the image to fit on your screen. If you want to see more detail, then you could zoom in on the detail. The draw back is for people without a broadband connection ... download time is going to be longer. Another option (which would be more work) would be to have two version of each photo: one being the Max Res and the other being something smaller (say 1280x1024). Anyway, please let me know what will work best.

In terms of getting more info from Samsung ... I still think it is too early. I'll try to email Steve P. when we get a little further down the road. I'll start to keep a list of potential questions. Certainly the measurements and or technical drawings is an important question (but, don't remember Samsung giving this to us in prior years). A delivery date update would also be a must ask question and I think that they have been good about answering these types of questions. One area that I think we should reconfirm is that the max HDMI input resolution is 1080i vs 1080p.

Hey all, as you know I've been very actively looking into / drooling over, samsung DLP's, but I'd never really gotten to examine one... Anyways me and a buddy were at Future Shop today and they had a HLP Pedastal model there, twas 50" I believe, anways that was a big TV, and I'm sitting here telling myself I'm getting a 61" or 67", and grinning from ear to ear.

Now I'm legally blind, and the picture was stunning to me, my friend (normal vision) said the Samsung was awesome... We glanced at a Toshiba 62" (just for a size reference) and he said it had pixelation...

And considering this was just a normal feed, going to many televisions at once, and I liked the picture, I can't wait to see what's instore for me.

- D

D ... sorry to hear about your eyesight. If you thought the 50" was big, you are really going to be amazed by the 61". It seems much bigger than the 11" difference would suggest.

The 50" HLP5085W that you were looking at has the sharpest picture of any of the Samsung models in the HLP line. It is really a great baseline for a 720p set.

Yeah it was really sharp (I had my glasses on, they're +9.0 perscription, so they do make things bigger :))... The color was awesome, I knelt down on the ground and I definetley see what you're saying about the vertical limit.

However where my TV is sitting should be awesome.

I'm so excited.

I just got back from local Circuit City to refresh my memory regarding Samsung's DLP line to date and to garner encouragement for waiting till June? for the 68/78 series. I used this experience to try and understand what TW and others might have experienced at the CES 2005 regarding the new 68 & 78 line and the significant differences/improvements from Samsung's best in their current line of DLP models. Today, I viewed/compared Samsung's "Capt. Kirk" pedestal model next to a Sony 60 xs955, another Samsung DLP (HD2 chip), Hitachi LCDs, and Panasonics.
I kept comming back to the Samsung pedestal as the sharpest and most impressive of the lot and kept thinking "how much more could Samsung improve upon its picture quality?

Folks in this thread who have seen the 68 & 78 models have provided a great deal of observation/feedback info. and have described the wow factor improvements that these new models demonstrated over the current crop - its seems hard to imagine BUT worth the wait till June to see for myself and perhaps line up for a 5668 of my own!!

Does anyone know at this early date if the estimated retail price for the 56" 68 series & 78 series ($4100.00) displayed at the begining of this great thread the MSRP? Is it likely to come down at point of sale?

I just got back from local Circuit City to refresh my memory regarding Samsung's DLP line to date and to garner encouragement for waiting till June? for the 68/78 series. I used this experience to try and understand what TW and others might have experienced at the CES 2005 regarding the new 68 & 78 line and the significant differences/improvements from Samsung's best in their current line of DLP models. Today, I viewed/compared Samsung's "Capt. Kirk" pedestal model next to a Sony 60 xs955, another Samsung DLP (HD2 chip), Hitachi LCDs, and Panasonics.
I kept coming back to the Samsung pedestal as the sharpest and most impressive of the lot and kept thinking "how much more could Samsung improve upon its picture quality?

Folks in this thread who have seen the 68 & 78 models have provided a great deal of observation/feedback info. and have described the wow factor improvements that these new models demonstrated over the current crop - its seems hard to imagine BUT worth the wait till June to see for myself and perhaps line up for a 5668 of my own!!

Does anyone know at this early date if the estimated retail price for the 56" 68 series & 78 series ($4100.00) displayed at the beginning of this great thread the MSRP? Is it likely to come down at point of sale?

Originally posted by hadleyfarm
Does anyone know at this early date if the estimated retail price for the 56" 68 series & 78 series ($4100.00) displayed at the begining of this great thread the MSRP? Is it likely to come down at point of sale?

The $4199 price for the 5668 is from Samsung's press release at CES. This would be MSRP. Once supply of these HDTV's is adequate, I'd expect people would start to see some discounting. Certainly, people would be able to get at least 10% by using BB coupons or signing up for a Sears credit card or all of the standard things people have been doing to lower the price of the current Samsung units.

The $4199 price for the 5678 is a GUESS on my part. I simply set it to equal the announced price for the 5668 since we know both units are identical, except for their cases. If the final 5678 case is nicer than the 5668 case, Samsung may feel that the 5678 price could be higher ... we just don't know yet. These sets will be sold by dealers and custom installers so it is harder to know what kinds of deals people will be seeing. Certainly you could approach your local dealer and try to work out a deal. I would imagine they could be convinced to price match a 5668 deal at another local store (BB, CC, etc.).

Please remember that there will be six months between CES and the introduction of these HDTV's (or more). During this time, Samsung may revise their pricing. :)

Probably the biggest factor affecting discounting is supply and demand. This may be tough to gage until the units are actually out. On one hand, I can see people opting for the lower priced 720p sets. On the other hand, these are some of the first 1080p sets and could get a lot of buzz and demand. We will just have to wait and see.

I have been trying to figure how to word this question so allow me some latitude. Sorry if mentioned elsewhere, I didn’t see it. I am working from the view that DLP RPTV with 1080P resolution will require more processing power to upscale lower resolution sources to 1080P resolution. The current Samsung DLP’s have been noted to have Video lag issues because of the processing needed to upscale and deinterlace lower resolution sources to 720P. For viewing purposes an audio lag may be introduced and improve the sync. For gaming this delay destroys timing issues. The only improvement in gaming obtained by feeding the DLP RPTV as high a resolution as possible from the gaming platform.

Now for the question:

Is there any information available that the new 2005 1080P Samsung DLP sets will have a “more powerful” video processor to possibly decrease these delays?

Thanks

Originally posted by UCSB
If you thought the 50" was big, you are really going to be amazed by the 61". It seems much bigger than the 11" difference would suggest.


Yes indeed.

Some might think a 61" is only 22% larger than a 50".

Or maybe they'll think a bit about the difference in overall screen size and think it will be 30%-33% or so.

Actually, a 61" is 49% larger in screen area than a 50". Quite a bit of difference.

Originally posted by jdmoser
I have been trying to figure how to word this question so allow me some latitude. Sorry if mentioned elsewhere, I didn’t see it. I am working from the view that DLP RPTV with 1080P resolution will require more processing power to upscale lower resolution sources to 1080P resolution. The current Samsung DLP’s have been noted to have Video lag issues because of the processing needed to upscale and deinterlace lower resolution sources to 720P. For viewing purposes an audio lag may be introduced and improve the sync. For gaming this delay destroys timing issues. The only improvement in gaming obtained by feeding the DLP RPTV as high a resolution as possible from the gaming platform.

Now for the question:

Is there any information available that the new 2005 1080P Samsung DLP sets will have a “more powerful” video processor to possibly decrease these delays?

Thanks

Good question and I'm curious too. If I were to connect a PS2 to the DLP TV's, I would imagine a lot of lag due to the processing? I guess no one here will know until someone get their hands on a set.

This is an open item in the first post. There are actually two questions:

Items We Would Like To Test, But Need To Wait Until HDTV's Are Released:

2. Given the increased video processing demands of 1080p, what is the capability of the 68/78/88 series 1080p sets to handle computer/video gaming? Specifically, what is lag?

3. Given the increased video processing required in the 1080p units 68, 78, 88 Series), what steps has Samsung taken to insure that we don't see lip sync issues? Did anyone ask specifically about this concern?

We won't know the answers until the sets are out. The first post in this thread is kept up-to-date by UCSB and contains the best information available about the HLR sets.

er...woops!...(sorry).

No problem. Many people reading this thread don't realize that the first post is being updated continuously. UCSB has done yeoman's work to keep things up to date.

Besides we need something to keep this thread near the top during these dog days until more information becomes available.

right...(it becomes a little scary when this thread lags so far behind).

A bit of excitment to hold me over, I got my Universal Remote Control MX-850 today :D :D :D

Now I must find time to program it.

- D

I was reading the info in the original posting by UCSB. There is a link entitled: Technical Discussion, Screen Shots, Photos (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20050110/dg45.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20050110/dg45.htm%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG) .

I waded through the mechanical translation of the original Japanese, and it appears that TI will produce a "wobulated" 720p DMD as well as the new "wobulated" 1080p chip that is the hot topic of this thread. The article points out that a wobulated 720p chip only needs a pixel array of 640×720 which is fewer pixels than a normal SVGA DMD (800x600).

So if you don't like the effect produced by wobulation (i.e. non-rectangular grid layout or perhaps other yet unknown visual oddities :) ) and you want a 720p set, this might be the last year they are available.

Scott

Originally posted by schaffer970
UCSB has done yeoman's work to keep things up to date.

Thanks ... it has been a fun project. :)

Originally posted by ScottS
I was reading the info in the original posting by UCSB. There is a link entitled: Technical Discussion, Screen Shots, Photos (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20050110/dg45.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20050110/dg45.htm%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG) .

I waded through the mechanical translation of the original Japanese, and it appears that TI will produce a "wobulated" 720p DMD as well as the new "wobulated" 1080p chip that is the hot topic of this thread. The article points out that a wobulated 720p chip only needs a pixel array of 640×720 which is fewer pixels than a normal SVGA DMD (800x600).

So if you don't like the effect produced by wobulation (i.e. non-rectangular grid layout or perhaps other yet unknown visual oddities :) ) and you want a 720p set, this might be the last year they are available.

Scott

Virtually all of the new 2005 models will be using wobulation ... the only exception looks like the HRL5087W pedestal model. On the surface it appears like the HD2+ chips are fading away and that, for now, wobulated chips are going to be taking over.

We have been told that Samsung is going to discontinue manufacturing the HLPxx74W models in March / April. The new pedestal models (88 series, 87 series) should be out by then and so within a few months the HLR5087W will be the only non-wobulated model in production.

Or will it ... after spotting a HLN5065W (50" 2003 model) on the Costco.com site ... and then noticing that Samsung has added the HLN617W back on their web site, I have started to wonder what is going on. It seems some popular discountinued models are still being produced and sold through discount outlets. Who knows, but maybe some of these HD2 models, and possible in the future, HD2+ models will still be available in limited distribution through heavy discounters. If you really like the HLPxx74W, I don't think I would count it being available, but who know you might spot it at Costco or a similar discounter long after it has disappeared from the normal distribution outlets.

Originally posted by Daphoid
A bit of excitment to hold me over, I got my Universal Remote Control MX-850 today :D :D :D

Now I must find time to program it.

- D

Congratulations! If you haven't already discovered it yet, www.remotecentral.com has some good info the MX-850 (under files > MX-700 area).

For anyone who is willing to put some time and effort into your remote, it is possible to program remotes that are JP1 enabled to do some pretty amazing things. You can pick up a ~$20.00 remote (One For All 8810w at Walmart) that you can program with your computer so that you can turn on and off multiple components with one push of a button. More information can be found here: Radio Shack & One For AllŽ Universal Remotes (http://www.hifi-remote.com/ofa/). It takes some time and effort (including making or buying a interface cable for connection between the remote and your computer) to make everything work. Nor is it nearly as easy as some of the more expensive remotes, but you can combine multiple remotes into one, inexpensively :)

I've spent the evening looking for a shoot out between the Mits DLP and the Sammy DLP. Nothing on AVS.

I own a Sammy HLM, but want to compare the Mits and Sammy for the next 61" purchase.

Any ISF'ers or industry people have comparisions beyond the usual "look at it and judge yourself?"

Hi all,

This has been brought up in other ways, but I'm going to approach it from another angle (I think).

My question is, can 1080p be realized through the VGA port on the 6188 models? I know the HDMI port is limited at 720p or 1080i, but what about a PC?

A second question: What other ways can 1080p be seen? Through the tuner, and the cablecard slot?

Thanks.

In the past, the remote that Samsung has supplied with the HDTV's is pretty basic. I don't think anyone has mentioned anything about the remotes that are going to be shipped with the new 2005 sets. But, to the best of my knowledge the remote has pretty much remained unchanged for the past two model years. Anyone trying to put together a really nice HT will want to get a custom remote. The good news in that there are attractive remotes in all price categories.

I have a Philips Pronto TSU3000. With my battery pack and cradle, I have about $325 in it. But, the real investment is in all of the custom programming and design that went into getting the custom screens and macros setup the way that I wanted.

RemoteCentral has a 7 minute video from CES 2005. Here is the link:

http://www.remotecentral.com/wn050124.htm

The new Logictech Harmony 880 looked interesting.

In looking closely at the pictures of the xx78 sets, it looks like the bottom edge of the lower glossy black (plastic?) border protrudes beyond the silver-like (speaker grill?) below it. Can anyone who has seen these 'in person', or knows more, comment on whether or not this is true? This seems to give a rather un-finished appearance; what do others think? (The xx68's don't seem to have this 'problem'.)

PS I don't think I said this very well; I mean that the black plastic border's thickness sticks out beyond the silver speaker grill.

Originally posted by duffin
I've spent the evening looking for a shoot out between the Mits DLP and the Sammy DLP. Nothing on AVS.

I own a Sammy HLM, but want to compare the Mits and Sammy for the next 61" purchase.

Any ISF'ers or industry people have comparisions beyond the usual "look at it and judge yourself?"

The 61" HLR models will not be release until later in the year. We are expecting the HLR6167W, the 720p model, in April (earliest). The HLR6168W and HLR6178W, the 1080p models, are expected in June (earliest). Until we actually get production level products, it is going to be pretty much impossible to answer performance questions.

If you are considering the current HLP6163W, there is extensive information on this model. If you are interesting in buying now and want to only compare the existing production models, you might want to start your own thread comparing the specific Samsung and Mits models and asking for feedback. I know many people have compared the two brands (and come to a broad range of conclusions).

Originally posted by millerwill
PS I don't think I said this very well; I mean that the black plastic border's thickness sticks out beyond the silver speaker grill.

The black lacquer bezel style is used on other Samsung HDTV products. I was at Best Buy and noticed that one of their plasma's was using the same exact styling. The black bezel does extend out, or sit, in front of the silver speaker grill. I thought it looked pretty nice. I liked it more than any of the existing HLP (or prior HLN, HLM) models. I haven't decided which style (68 / 78) that I like best yet. But, I am leaning toward the 78 series.

Originally posted by virtualted
My question is, can 1080p be realized through the VGA port on the 6188 models? I know the HDMI port is limited at 720p or 1080i, but what about a PC?

A second question: What other ways can 1080p be seen? Through the tuner, and the cablecard slot?

Thanks.

The VGA input is going to be an analog input. Many of us are building all digital systems and really wanted the 1080p capability on the HDMI input. That being said, we are still trying to confirm that the VGA input will support 1920x1080, but we are almost positive it will. Therefore, I guess this could be used to send a 1080p signal from a computer to the HDTV. Also, we have not talked about whether the component video connections would support 1080p. That is still an unknown.

The question about if the tuners will support future 1080p broadcast formats is a good question. But, again we don't know. I have added this question to our open issues.

Here is our current list of open issues:

What we DON’T KNOW so far:

1. What are the DEPTH measurements, dimensions, and weight on the new series 68/78 models by model number? Even a couple of reference points would allow us to see the trend.

2. What is the contrast ratio spec’s for the HLR5087W 720p pedestal model? If they had one on display, did anyone notice if the pixel pattern was HD2+ or newer HD4 pattern?

3. What computer resolutions are supported on the 68, 78, and 88 series sets (1920x1080?)? How would this work through the HDMI connection (via DVI - HDMI cable?) Specifically, does it support 1920x1080. Since we have confirmed that the 68, 78, and 88 will have VGA/PC input, what resolutions will be supported via this input?

4. Is the CableCard tuner a dual tuner model? Is it capable of PIP? Is the CableCard Tuner a second generation model capable of two way communications to support services like VOD (video on demand)?

5. Will 1080p be supported on the component video inputs on the 1080p units?

6. Will the internal ATSC tuner or CableCard tuner support the future 1080p broadcast format on the 1080p units?

Originally posted by UCSB
The black lacquer bezel style is used on other Samsung HDTV products. I was at Best Buy and noticed that one of their plasma's was using the same exact styling. The black bezel does extend out, or sit, in front of the silver speaker grill. I thought it looked pretty nice. I liked it more than any of the existing HLP (or prior HLN, HLM) models. I haven't decided which style (68 / 78) that I like best yet. But, I am leaning toward the 78 series.

Thanks UCSB (from UCB!) for the info. I will try to see one of the current Samsung plasmas to check out this black bezel style 'up close and personal'. But your evaluation is reassuring.

In two weeks on Tuesday, March 1st. I am hoping to send Steve P., the DLP product line manager at Samsung an email asking for a brief update on the status of the 2005 models. Right now I am planning on asking about the tentative 78 series screen sizes, release dates, dimensions, the open questions above, and any other open issues that we have. I will probably ask some of the tougher performance related questions also (see POST #1). Make sure that you post any questions that you feel should be included in this email over the next two weeks and I will include them.

I did not notice any pedestal models on display at CES.

this thread has me VERY excited! screens with little to no SSE or shimmer, 1080p, 10,000:1 contrast ratio, less rainbow effect, etc. I may sell my GWIII and take the dive on one of these if they live up to the hype. If not, maybe a 1080p D-ILA. regardless this is GREAT stuff, thanks to everyone.

For all the discussions on 1080p may I suggest reviewing the link that follows for a clearer understanding of 1080i vs. 1080p and it's reality and possible timelines.

http://news.designtechnica.com/talkback47.html

I think many folks have a misconception or misunderstanding and that it may be a few years or more away. Just trying to offer up a clarification versus the marketing mumbo jumbo the Vendors are using. I'm all for it but presently it has it's limitations but will most likely take HD to HD+ with double capacity of 1080p. Not an Engineer but this guy clarifies it pretty well.

The 1080i units will be the first step towards the reality once they work out the compression problems with present broadcast. Can't wait and Samsung is pushing hard to be ready and at a price target of most middle class consumers unlike Sony with it's Qualia for the upper crust.

Also I just saw a Press Release that isn't public yet at Business Wire stating

TANDBERG Television MPEG-4 AVC HD Advanced Encoding Platform Chosen for DIRECTV's HD Expansion - Sorrry but I cannot link to the story as it is a paid subscription news service.

This may get the ball closer to everyone's goal.

Enjoy!

Originally posted by westa6969
For all the discussions on 1080p may I suggest reviewing the link that follows for a clearer understanding of 1080i vs. 1080p and it's reality and possible timelines.

http://news.designtechnica.com/talkback47.html

I think many folks have a misconception or misunderstanding and that it may be a few years or more away. Just trying to offer up a clarification versus the marketing mumbo jumbo the Vendors are using. I'm all for it but presently it has it's limitations but will most likely take HD to HD+ with double capacity of 1080p. Not an Engineer but this guy clarifies it pretty well.

The 1080i units will be the first step towards the reality once they work out the compression problems with present broadcast. Can't wait and Samsung is pushing hard to be ready and at a price target of most middle class consumers unlike Sony with it's Qualia for the upper crust.

Also I just saw a Press Release that isn't public yet at Business Wire stating

TANDBERG Television MPEG-4 AVC HD Advanced Encoding Platform Chosen for DIRECTV's HD Expansion - Sorrry but I cannot link to the story as it is a paid subscription news service.

This may get the ball closer to everyone's goal.

Enjoy!

Huh ?!? :(

Originally posted by pjr
I did not notice any pedestal models on display at CES.

We have a photo of one that was being used to demo a Samsung audio system. But, it may have been the only one there. It seems that Samsung has chosen to completely deemphasize the pedestal design. I wonder if the HLR5688W and HLR5087W are going to be the last of their kind ... it wouldn't surprise me.

Anyway the open question that we have about the HLR5087W will be answered when it is released here soon. Until then, I am going to continue to believe that it is using the HD2+ chip.

Touring BB, I came across the HLP5085W & couldn't believe the picture. I couldn't wait to come to this site for reviews, but it doesn't look like too many have viewed it. It was surrounded in a sea of LCD's & Plasmas, but my eyes were constantly focused on this one. I immediately assumed it was a plasma or new line of LCD b/c the picture was so accurate, smooth, & the images looked so real I thought I could reach in and touch them (the same feeling you get the first time you ever see HDTV). The plasmas were way out of line on their setup, they were blooming & the reds bled so there really wasn't a just comparison, but the setup on this unit was perfect. I was absolutely shocked to read the tag & find out it was DLP, I then went around to the other DLP units & hated them. They were pixelated with darker corners.

Any thoughts?

Neuner,

In the interest of not polluting the 2005 HLR thread, you might want to head over to this thread where most of the xx85 owner's hang out.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=428777

I'll be receiving my 5685 this evening, so I hope to be as impressed as you were. Personally, I have only seend the 5085 in a local BB and it looked not real great... but neither did many of the other sets in the store. I'm sure it was source related.

Regs,
Jeff

Originally posted by westa6969
For all the discussions on 1080p may I suggest reviewing the link that follows for a clearer understanding of 1080i vs. 1080p and it's reality and possible timelines.

http://news.designtechnica.com/talkback47.html

I think many folks have a misconception or misunderstanding and that it may be a few years or more away. Just trying to offer up a clarification versus the marketing mumbo jumbo the Vendors are using. I'm all for it but presently it has it's limitations but will most likely take HD to HD+ with double capacity of 1080p. Not an Engineer but this guy clarifies it pretty well.

Good article, but I think you might have misread it. My reading of the article you linked to is talking about Source format, not the TV's displaying capabilities. 1080p TVs -are- coming out. 1080p signals are not any time soon.

The article then goes on to say that upconversion will still (hopefully) make these 1080p sets spectacular.

Considerations at this point, according to the article, are that some stations will broadcast at 1080i while others will go 720p. This means that there may be some conversion for 720p sets while all 1080p sets will be up-converting.

Anyway, I'm not sure what mumbo jumbo you're unhappy with or what you mean with HD to HD+ and doubling the capacity of 1080p... none of those were mentioned in the article, which only talkes about how 1080i will work with the current 720p and 1080p sets.

westa,

thanks for posting that. I think that it is a pretty good article to further educate people who only have a basic understanding of the benefits of 1080p. Nothing hits home better than describing a horse race in 720p vs. 1080i.

However, I'm not sure that I understand what the author means when he says "I don’t want to hype 1080p too much. First, we won’t get the full benefit of it until it moves from an upconversion format to a consumer video distribution format" Is he saying that de-interlacing 1080i to 1080p isn't quite as good as using a direct 1080p feed (of course, for the HLR's this is irrelevant since there is not a 1080p input), or is he simply saying that consumer video is not in a 1080 (i or p) format, so we won't get the full benefit until that occurs? My understanding is that there is no difference between 1080i deinterlaced with a TV's hardware and a 1080p direct feed. Can anyone explain this to me?

Originally posted by westa6969
For all the discussions on 1080p may I suggest reviewing the link that follows for a clearer understanding of 1080i vs. 1080p and it's reality and possible timelines.

http://news.designtechnica.com/talkback47.html

I think many folks have a misconception or misunderstanding and that it may be a few years or more away. Just trying to offer up a clarification versus the marketing mumbo jumbo the Vendors are using. I'm all for it but presently it has it's limitations but will most likely take HD to HD+ with double capacity of 1080p. Not an Engineer but this guy clarifies it pretty well.

The 1080i units will be the first step towards the reality once they work out the compression problems with present broadcast. Can't wait and Samsung is pushing hard to be ready and at a price target of most middle class consumers unlike Sony with it's Qualia for the upper crust.

Also I just saw a Press Release that isn't public yet at Business Wire stating

TANDBERG Television MPEG-4 AVC HD Advanced Encoding Platform Chosen for DIRECTV's HD Expansion - Sorrry but I cannot link to the story as it is a paid subscription news service.

This may get the ball closer to everyone's goal.

Enjoy!

Originally posted by Iceblade
Neuner,

In the interest of not polluting the 2005 HLR thread, you might want to head over to this thread where most of the xx85 owner's hang out.

....Oops :o sorry, thanks for the link.....

No worries, bro. Lots of people over their talking about the xx85. Enjoy.

Regs,
Jeff (t-minus 3 hours 50 minutes til he's a 5685 owner) :)

Originally posted by Neuner
....Oops :o sorry, thanks for the link.....

Just came upon this on the TI DLP site. Live It (http://www.dlp.com/home_entertainment/images/DLP_TV_Guide.pdf) (TI's new advertising campaign). It list the Winter 2005 DLP products available for several manufactures including several Samsung HLR models. Of interest here is the HLR5688w information. They list some information on other HLR sets but the 5688 is the only 1080p set.

Of particular note is that TI (as this is a TI document) lists the chip in the HLR5688w as a xHD3. Apparently they are rethinking the non-use of chip designations. :)

Good find ... it confirms our xHD3 spec on the HLR5688W ... I've confirmed it in POST #1.

This document also mentions a HL-R4677W and HL-R5677W coming out in 2005. I thought Samsung scrapped plans for these.

Originally posted by aranganath
This document also mentions a HL-R4677W and HL-R5677W coming out in 2005. I thought Samsung scrapped plans for these.

They also refer to a HLR4663W ... and this is definitely NOT a correct model number. Perhaps the HLRxx77W data is bad also.

I've added the TI DLP brochure as a link in the Series 78 Background area under the photos area on POST #1 if anyone is looking for it in the future.

Hey guys, I make no representations about the stuff I find being true, I just do my best to find it. :D

Also came across this on the TI site. It is a presentation given in December 2004 by a TI employee at a TI Developers Conference. Here is the link: DLP Technology and Applications (http://www.ti.com/asia/docs/india/tiidevconf2004/consumer_electronics/sreeram.ppt) . (I am not sure if this requires registration at the TI site - in any case it is free) Of interest here is about half way through the presentation is listed "DLP Native Resolution Family - Currently Announced". They show 720P and 1080p chips at what appears to be full 1280x720 and 1920x1080 resolution. No wobulation mentioned. I don't know if this means anything, but is it possible the HD4 and xHD4 are the 720P and 1080p chips, 1:1 mapped? Only time will tell.

Interesting presentation ... especially for people new to DLP! I've added it to the Series 78 background area if anyone is looking for it in the future.

I think when they refer to native resolution in the presentation ... they are only talking about what the chip is designed to produce. I don't think I would make the leap to a 1:1 mapped chip based on this presentation.

Originally posted by schaffer970
They show 720P and 1080p chips at what appears to be full 1280x720 and 1920x1080 resolution. No wobulation mentioned. I don't know if this means anything, but is it possible the HD4 and xHD4 are the 720P and 1080p chips, 1:1 mapped? Only time will tell.

Resolution does not equal pixel count.

And "wobulated" can equal 1:1 pixel mapping.

And both traditional grid and diamond shaped pixel arrays are progressive.

So, when TI only mentions 720p or 1080p, that is the only conclusion you can draw... 720p or 1080p.

The chip, strategy or theory is not stated - so you can't necessarily reverse- logic to those details.

Ok ... 77 series?

I thought the two new HLR series were 68 and 78? And then some crazy pedastal model as well)?

I *hope* those aren't the real manuals, because 1 HDMI port and no DVI at all? That's just horrid.... I don't mind either, but 2 or 3, come on! Even a simple HT has a DVD player and a HDTV cable box, jeez!

- D

Originally posted by Daphoid
Ok ... 77 series?

I thought the two new HLR series were 68 and 78? And then some crazy pedastal model as well)?

I *hope* those aren't the real manuals, because 1 HDMI port and no DVI at all? That's just horrid.... I don't mind either, but 2 or 3, come on! Even a simple HT has a DVD player and a HDTV cable box, jeez!

- D

The 77 series manuals are *** possibly *** for the integrated tuner upgrades to the Tantus thin bezel HLPxx74W series models. As far as we know these models are not going to go into production.

And just to clarify for everyone the HLPxx67W manuals are for the integrated tuner version of the HLPxx63W models. These are not the HLRxx67W models discussed in POST #1 of this thread. The HLRxx67W will be the replacements for these current HLPxx67W units described in the manuals.

Trancethereal, I agree that very little can be determined from the information available about the 720p and 1080p chips. I have found several presentations made by TI employees over time on the DLP chips and the pictures accompanying the descriptions of the various chips have always lined up with the known mirror counts. What I find interesting is that in the two most recent presentations, when they show the 1080p chips the mirror configuration in the picture is always in a 16:9 configuration. With a wobulated configuration the mirror count would be 960 X 1080 or very nearly square. Why don't the pictures show a square DLP? Possibly TI is being very clever so that the general public doesn't wonder about wobulation. However these presentations are being made to designers and developers, so why not just show what is really going on? On the other hand maybe somebody just grabbed pictures they had available. Who knows. :confused:

AkaStp, I did find those documents awhile ago (page 36 of this thread) but did not directly link them. I would leave your post alone. Its just one more bit of information :)

It's interesting that if those manuals are legit, that the new Tantus line received the HLR designation rather than HLP.

Originally posted by Clorox
My understanding is that there is no difference between 1080i deinterlaced with a TV's hardware and a 1080p direct feed. Can anyone explain this to me?
This post by Disclord does a good job describing the difference between deinterlaced 1080i and native 1080p. IANA Engineer, so I can't vouch for it's accuracy.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5122366#post5122366

Originally posted by aranganath
It's interesting that if those manuals are legit, that the new Tantus line received the HLR designation rather than HLP.

Yes ... that would indicate that the line was going to stay in production for 2005. But, earlier in this thread and in the FAQ's in post #1, Administrator asked Steve P., the DLP product line manager at Samsung about the HLPxx74W's and was told that they are going to stop production on that product in March / April. It was going to be discontinued. I know that there is a lot of interest in the HLPxx77W's ... but, our best information is that these products are not going to be offered in the US.

Originally posted by AkaStp
Would it better to delete the links to the manuals so as not to cause confusion?

I think it would be better to leave them because they are the first TV's with the ATSC tuner and cablecard. People can also investigate PIP and other questions about the tuners. But, everyone needs to understand that these are not the new 720p sets and that the spec's for the new 2005 sets could be different.

Originally posted by UCSB
In two weeks on Tuesday, March 1st. I am hoping to send Steve P., the DLP product line manager at Samsung an email asking for a brief update on the status of the 2005 models. Right now I am planning on asking about the tentative 78 series screen sizes, release dates, dimensions, the open questions above, and any other open issues that we have. I will probably ask some of the tougher performance related questions also (see POST #1). Make sure that you post any questions that you feel should be included in this email over the next two weeks and I will include them.

UCSB: Thanks for taking this initiative. I think you have covered the essential questions. Personally, I'm interested in the large sizes, the 6768 or 7078, so their dimensions (and weight) are of great interest (e.g, in planning for the stand, etc.). Also, of course, in knowing whether or not the 7078 will actually be produced, and if so, when.

Interesting bit of news -

February 16, 2005 11:26 AM US Eastern Timezone

Interactive Video and Voice over Internet Highlight CableNET 2005 at The 2005 National Show

The National Show 2005

LOUISVILLE, Colo.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Feb. 16, 2005--CableLabs(R) announced today that 45 broadband demonstrations will comprise the 13th annual CableNET(R) exhibit, a highlight of The 2005 National Show, the annual convention and international exhibition of National Cable & Telecommunications Association (NCTA), April 3-5 at The Moscone Center in San Francisco.


Samsung Electronics is showing its Interactive Digital Cable Ready ("iDCR") high-definition television (HDTV) based on CableLabs'(R) OpenCable(TM) Application Platform (OCAP(TM)) software and OpenCable Host hardware specifications.

Here is the link to the actual article: 2005 National Show (http://www.cablelabs.org/news/pr/2005/05_pr_cablenet_021605.html)

Maybe there is still a chance of iDCR on the 2005 models :)

TetsujinWave and I have started putting the promised HiRes photo area together. You can find it near the top of POST #1. You can try out the first two photos that I have added. Let me know how it is working.

Only one word needed,

AWESOME!!!

Thanks USSB & T-Wave

Well ... I hit a snag. I can't put anymore images in POST #1 (I hit avsForum limit) ... so my idea about having a thumb on each HiRes image is in trouble. Daphoid, our resident web expert, and I are working on plan B. I can either drop the thumbs or link to a web page with the thumbs. I like the idea of the thumbnail pictures ... so hopefully we will find a way. Stay tuned.

sorry guys, but im almost wetting my pants here thinking about the following, which in 5 years (after my 5063 is game roomed, and im making bank as a biiomedical engineer) :

playing some type of battielfield 42 type game (hopefully on fiber optic )with graphics that will dwarf those of unreal 3 coming out next year (if you havent seen the 161mb CES video, check it out, droool...) at 1920x1080 on a true 65-70 inch 1080p DLP (or who knows what) hdtv powered by dual core 7ghz 64bit processors with 10gig ram and some super super super sick 1.5gb video card and 7.1 surround, probably which will all be had for around $4000 (including puter) .


excuse me while i finish myself off.


gotta love the future

btw, this is the only real benefit of 1080p, except if blue ray or hddvd pull off 24fps 1080p with 3:2 pulldown flawlessly

Bill, great job. I gave you most of the other pictures (excluding family foolishness at the Borg Experience and the casino win) to give you a good idea of the show. This is especially true of the LG DLP pictures, which are excellent for showing what last year's xHD3 1080p engine is capable of. I only wish the Episode III trailer on the TI prototype had been salvageable.

Martin

Hello TWave,
I must apologize for an earlier post where I asked you how you would reconcile the proclivity to eyestrain and headaches to your preference of the DLPs to the D-ILA...you let me know that I had you confused with some other poster, and that was very true. The post that I was referring to was by KyungKim and can be found in this thread in post #1 under FAQ's #1, D. Please excuse my confusion and thank you again for sharing your experiences.

No worries. I just happened to be reading through the first post again and saw that myself. I may do my own write-up on the PQ for inclusion in the first post later.

This may sound like a dumb question, but, if these new TV's are going to upconvert everything to at least a 1080i resolution, what will that do to sports or other shows that are normally broadcast in 720p? Will it make fast motion blurry, or will it retain its non-blurred 720p integrity)? I obviously don't want sports or anything fast moving on the screen to become blurred because of the upconvert.

Does anyone know if this will happen?

I am absolutely drawn to this site like a magnet every time I log on!

My Philips HDTV officially "died" as of this past Tuesday (after being in the repair shop since late October, '04 - the repairs being too expensive to contemplate).

I'm continually looking at the photos in post #1 and imagining what my DVDs and HD will look like (when the sets become available and when my finances dictate a possible purchase time).

I've become so addictive to watching the Philips for over 2 1/2 years that I feel lost without it (and having to wait for its replacement for such a long time isn't pleasant).

(Just thought I'd chime in!)

Originally posted by CGULL999
This may sound like a dumb question, but, if these new TV's are going to upconvert everything to at least a 1080i resolution, what will that do to sports or other shows that are normally broadcast in 720p? Will it make fast motion blurry, or will it retain its non-blurred 720p integrity)? I obviously don't want sports or anything fast moving on the screen to become blurred because of the upconvert.

Does anyone know if this will happen?

I'll take a shot at this. The set will upconvert everything to 1080p (not 1080i) for display. What this means is that for 1080i broadcast the set will deinterlace the signal and display it at 1080p. For a 720p signal the set will upconvert to 1080p (essentially adding data). All of this is done, I believe, in the DNIe (Digital Natural Image engine (http://www.samsung.com/au/presscenter/pressrelease/australianews_20031024_0000021187.asp)) chip. How well the upconversion process works determines what you will see.

If you are reading about the new Sony Qualia 06 in that thread you will note that they are doing the same thing in that set and getting excellent results (of course they are using their own chips to do this).

Until the sets are actually out, we won't know the exact picture quality. In post #1 under FAQ are some impressions from people who actually saw the sets at CES. In general they thought the picture was very good.:D

Just curious, when is the 1080p models coming out?

Post #1 has the expected release dates for the various HLR (2005) models. There are various release release dates with the earliest possible this month (more likely April) and more in June.

So the 2005 models will be released half way to 2006. Brilliance.

I imagine it is the retailers who do not want them released yet as there are still lots of the 2004 models. I want the 5685 but am going to wait until the 5688 comes out.

Not to be an apologist for the manufactures, but maybe I should have simply said the "HLR models" without any year attached. I don't think the manufactures attach any significance to the year or when during the year that a model series comes out. The 2005 is simply our designation and for our convenience in talking about the models. :)

Originally posted by jayselle
So the 2005 models will be released half way to 2006. Brilliance.

I imagine it is the retailers who do not want them released yet as there are still lots of the 2004 models. I want the 5685 but am going to wait until the 5688 comes out.

I called the new HLR models 2005 models in POST #1. I don't believe that the manufacturers would refer to them in exactly that way. I think they would just refer to them as HLR models.

There seems to be a timetable in the consumer electronics industry. It starts in the first (or second) week in January at the Consumer Electronics Show. New models for the next year (until the next CES) are typically announced. Then as the year unfolds they are actually released. Personally, I really like the way things work. It gives you the information you need for informed decisions. It really brings some order to what could be a very confusing and hard to understand situation.

Model runs are maybe a better way of looking at product cycles than calendar years. For example, the HLPxx63W models came out in May 2004. They will probably be replaced in May 2005 with the new HLRxx67W.

Most businesses do not have the luxury of making their own time table. It would be nice if they would give a release date. Is that so hard? As a software engineer I am required to give completion dates and if they are not met you can face losing your job. Our customers like to know when to expect a product. I sure wish I could tell my boss "Well, should be done in the next year, and if not we'll just extend it again without giving an exact date"

What I will probably do is purchase the 5685 in mid March and excercise my 30 day return policy if the 5688 is released, and if not I will just return and wait. I am moving into a new house and I do not want to move things around multiple times just because manufactures cannot do something as simple as a release date.

Originally posted by jayselle
As a software engineer I am required to give completion dates and if they are not met you can face losing your job.
Right. The software industry is famous for "on time" product releases. :rolleyes: :D

Well, I bummed around CircuitCity and BestBuy today (are we obsessive, or not!) and did look at the Samsung plasmas: UCSB was right, the cabinet of them looks just like the 'black laquer' frame of the xx78 series sets. Can't say I really liked it that much; the black plastic (aka 'laquer') actually strikes me as a bit cheesy; I would prefer the dull black border on the present hlp's.

BUT: I want the largest screen I can get. So if the 7078 materializes, I will get it, shiny black plastic border and all. Or maybe it won't materialize and my decision will be simpler, i.e., to get the 6768.

(I wish we had more photos of the 6768.)

Originally posted by Ed Weinman
(I wish we had more photos of the 6768.)

I've been working on the new HiRes photo gallery. Hopefully, it will be up and running soon. Here is a short status update. TetsujinWave sent me all of his shots from CES. I started to add them on POST #1, but ran into a snag. Daphoid saved the day. He created an area on his server. I've uploaded the photos to his server, organized and labeled them. Daphoid is now going to work his magic on the photos to create some thumbnail pages to help present them and make it easier for people to find their favorites. Then I will link to the gallery's from POST #1. So hopefully, we are very close to getting this running.

The nice thing about the HiRes images is that you can look at them as the entire photo or go to actual pixel mode and check out the details. One photo goes a long way in answering any questions you might have.

As soon as Daphoid is finished with his current work, I will immediately link to the gallery and post the status here. :) :)

Originally posted by htwaits
Right. The software industry is famous for "on time" product releases. :rolleyes: :D

Actually, most are. It's live or die. If the software falls behind it is usually trashed as the emerging technology will pass it. Even the infamous Microsoft knows how to create a release date.

What is so difficult about setting a release date? The technology has obviously already been finalized. The only reason a hard date is not set is due to money. So everyone go by last year's Samsung DLP's and I bet the release date hits us sooner than later.

Originally posted by millerwill
Well, I bummed around CircuitCity and BestBuy today (are we obsessive, or not!) and did look at the Samsung plasmas: UCSB was right, the cabinet of them looks just like the 'black laquer' frame of the xx78 series sets. Can't say I really liked it that much; the black plastic (aka 'laquer') actually strikes me as a bit cheesy;...

I was at Fry's picking up some computer items and stopped by and looked at the Samsung black lacquer bezel plasmas again. I've got to admit the bezel seemed to be picking up a lot of reflections. Since we have months before the 78 series is released, I will stop back in a few more times and spend a little more time with the plasmas before coming to any final conclusions.

I do like the style better than the existing Samsung HLPxx63W's. But, bezel glare might be a distraction. I currently own a Tantus thin bezel model and I have never been distracted by the bezel ... never. It has a matte finish and does not pick up glare, even though it is a silver tone.