Originally posted by jayselle
So everyone go by last year's Samsung DLP's and I bet the release date hits us sooner than later.

Samsung had some fairly accurate rollouts last year (HLPxx85W, HLPxx63W) and one big disaster (HLPxx74W). We will have to just wait and see what happens this year. I'm still hopeful that the HLRxx67W and HLRxxx8W will be on time (or close).

I just hope that they don't rush the 1080p (Series 68/78) models and that whenever they are released they are solid because I am going to be an early adopter.

Software is not a really good analogy (for release schedules) because it is relatively easy to patch and update software. These HDTV's lack the ability to update the firmware or hardware ... so people are stuck with the set they buy. I would much rather see a delay, even if it was a big one than get a set that needed further development.

Here's a resize of one of the 6768 pictures. I only have a few pictures of it.

Originally posted by schaffer970

Until the sets are actually out, we won't know the exact picture quality. In post #1 under FAQ are some impressions from people who actually saw the sets at CES. In general they thought the picture was very good.:D [/B]

Schaffer970 has probably responded to the question I have as best as possible on the basis of fact. However, I'd like to get further thoughts, opinions, divinations via entrails, etc. from schaffer970 and others on the following: I'm ready to make the plunge into HDTV. Based primarily on info from this forum, my plan is to wait for a look at the Sammy HL-R5668 and HL-R5678. If I like what I see, I'll buy. If not, I'll try to score a discontinued HL-P5674W. Regardless, I'll need to upgrade my Denon DVD-2500 to a progressive scan model. Currently, I'm considering either the Denon DVD-3910 or the DVD-5910. (I'm biased! I like Denon. Purchasing another brand would undoubtedly lead to feelings of buyer's remorse, which I do not need.) The difference in price is $2000. As best I can figure, the "bell and whistle" that leads to the price difference is the presence of the "Realta - HQV Powered by Teranex decoding Engine... ..only other product to include this technology is Professional Teranex Video Processor for $60,000." Since the Sammys can also up convert, do I really need all of this fire power in the DVD-5910 player? What are your experiences? Would you expect that up conversion in the DVD-5910 using the Teranex engine would provide a better PQ or would the Sammy up conversion and signal processing that was designed for it's own product provide the better PQ. (I really could put $2000 toward new speakers.) I know there is no definitive answer at this point. I'm just interested in what your experiences suggest would be the case as I plan to buy the DVD player at the same time or just before the Sammy. Thanks much.

UCSB,

A delayed thank you for my question re: more photos.

Interesting,

TV Authority does not show the June1, 2005 date for the upcoming 6168/6768 sets.

I thought they had the date designation before.

While I'm not sure I'd be willing to sink that much money into a DVD player with HD-DVD and Blu-Ray on the horizon, I did get a chance to see Algolith's Teranex based Dragonfly scaler at the Innovations Plus Awards area at CES. The things it could do with a 480i signal were amazing. It's pricey too, but quality products often are.

I'm sure the Samsung 1080p models will have excellent scalers fully capable of doing a fantastic job--but if you want my opinion...Never bet against the Teranex.

It looks like TVA cleared all the dates out of their "coming soon" area. They still have the 2nd Quarter designation. Don't know if it means anything???

(Is the glass half full?)

Originally posted by donb1948
... do I really need all of this fire power in the DVD-5910 player?

I agree with TetsujinWave, with HD DVD players being released in Q4 2005 and Q1 2006, I would wait and get a player that could handle HD DVD and what will soon be legacy DVD. By the time these new HDTVs are released we will be into Q3, I'd get a $250 DVD player (like the Samsung DVD-HD941 or the new DVD-HD950) to use until newer Denon players are available that will support HD DVD.

Interesting (part two): TV Authority shows the 6168 as "begin shipping" end of Q1-05 and the 6768, Q2-05 (no "end of" designation). (Was this the same as before?)

Originally posted by UCSB
... I would wait and get a player that could handle HD DVD and what will soon be legacy DVD...

Tetsujinwave, UCSB...

Thanks much. Your input is really appreciated.

I had dismissed HD-DVD and Blu-Ray in my consideration of the Denon DVD player alternatives for the following reasons: 1. Until a few posting ago, TVAuthority listed an expectation date of April 1, 2005 for the HL-R5668. So I thought I'd be with new equipment before the 3rd quarter. 2. When the new HD DVD players come out, we'll be in a dueling format situation (remember Beta-Max). My thought is to not buy either new format player until there is a clear reason to do so (e.g., content) or universal players are the norm. (Yep, it "the chicken or the egg" thing again.) I figure that would mean a 3 to 5-yr wait, minimum. 3. Though the situations are not exactly analogous, the current experience with DVD-Audio and SACD causes me to wonder whether the new formats will ever (or, at least in the imminent future) displace the current DVD. I have some doubt that there is a pent up demand among the buying public for a new format. If vendors have to "create" the demand, it'll still be another 5-yrs at least before DVD actually becomes a "legacy" format.

If there is any credibility in my logic, I'd have no problem going with the DVD-3910 now and replace it in 5-yrs. But, I'd need to think a bit more about putting down the coin for the DVD-5910 (though, I'm paying considerable attention to Tetsujinwave's comment about not betting against a known winner). If my thoughts about HD DVD are off the mark, I'd certainly go the route of buying a lower price model now and an HD DVD in the 2006 time frame.

My apology. I don't mean to divert these missives from the discussion of the Sammys, but I'd appreciate any input on my reasoning.

I don't know about the 61's and 67's, but I do know that as late as last night, TV authority showed an expectation date for delivery of the HL-R5668 of 1 Apr 2005. Now, they do not show any date. (Since everyone else was listing June 2005, my wife had warned me not to get my hopes up! She's sure smug when she's right.)

The date from the HLR6168 doesn't mean anything. When TVA put up the HLR series they used the HL-P6197w as a template. The HL-P6197w had the 1Q 05 date in it. If you look at the detailed listing for the HL-R6197w you will note that in the description paragraph, at the bottom they say HL-P6168w. All of this is a holdover from the old 6197 ad. I brought this typo and the 1Q thing to their attention some time ago, but it still has not changed.

I have been told that I am number 1 on TVA's waiting list for a 6168 and believe that they are very good, but that being said, I also believe that the information that UCSB has in Post #1 is by far and away the most accurate information available anywhere about the HLR models.

Originally posted by schaffer970
The date from the HLR6168 doesn't mean anything. When TVA put up the HLR series they used the HL-P6197w as a template. The HL-P6197w had the 1Q 05 date in it. If you look at the detailed listing for the HL-R6197w you will note that in the description paragraph, at the bottom they say HL-P6168w. All of this is a holdover from the old 6197 ad. I brought this typo and the 1Q thing to their attention some time ago, but it still has not changed.

I have been told that I am number 1 on TVA's waiting list for a 6168 and believe that they are very good, but that being said, I also believe that the information that UCSB has in Post #1 is by far and away the most accurate information available anywhere about the HLR models. That's funny I was told I was #1 on the list for the HLR6168...just kidding I think I am in the first 5 though! The wait continues.

Originally posted by donb1948
Schaffer970 has probably responded to the question I have as best as <snip>
conversion in the DVD-5910 using the Teranex engine would provide a better PQ or would the Sammy up conversion and signal processing that was designed for it's own product provide the better PQ. (I really could put $2000 toward new speakers.) I know there is no definitive answer at this point. I'm just interested in what your experiences suggest would be the case as I plan to buy the DVD player at the same time or just before the Sammy. Thanks much.

My personal opinion is that dropping thousands of dollars on an upconverting DVD player is money wasted because HD-DVD/BluRay are just around the corner (year or 2 out).

Of course, if you want the absolute best right NOW and have the money for it, more power to you.

Originally posted by donb1948
Tetsujinwave, UCSB... but I'd appreciate any input on my reasoning.

No need to apologize for discussing HD DVD in this thread ... we are all trying to figure out how the situation around 1080p is going to come together. HD DVD and cable/sat/broadcast are the two key 1080p sources. I wish more people would be discussing HD DVD because DVD's are at least 50% of my viewing and I am very interested in the transisition to HD DVD.

I think that your argument about the time period required for HD DVD acceptance is reasonable for the general public. But, in my case it will only take two things to get me to shift to HD DVD when it is introduced: 1) reasonably priced DVD players; 2) NetFlix (or similar) service offering HD DVDs. I currently have NetFlix and if they offer HD DVDs then all I will need is the player.

I currently have the equivalent of about 700 DVDs. By the time that HD DVD is introduced and gets going, that number will be higher ... perhaps 1000.

But, after owning a HDTV for over a year and half, I just prefer HD material. In December, I upgraded from my SD ReplayTV to the Motorola 6412 HD DVR. After the first week with the Motorola, I just unplugged my ReplayTV. I wasn't watching enough SD to even keep it running. I expect the same thing will happen when HD DVDs appear. Sure some new releases will only be offered in the current format and I will rent or buy those, but I'm sure that if the movie is available in HD I will go with that version.

I believe that switchover time could be really short for people like myself.

I am also looking forward to HD DVD but I've had a great ride with regular DVD processed through an iSCAN HD processor and connected to my now defunct Philips 55" HDTV. I felt that my family had a private screening room and...it was a thrill!

Originally posted by UCSB

I believe that switchover time could be really short for people like myself.

Good points. Though I do not consider myself an "early adopter," taking the low cost approach (assuming PQ is acceptable) at this point puts me in a better position both financially and mentally to dump my equipment and get with the HD DVD technology should it progress faster than anticipated. I suspect that "short" is still on the order of 1 to 2 years. I guess it's time do some research on the Sammy DVD players as was suggested earlier. Thanks.

My personal opinion is that the switch over to HDDVD/Bluray will be very fast. The PS3 will have a Bluray player in it and the Xbox2 is supposed to have a HDDVD in it (with any luck we will get to a common format - but that's another debate). Both of these machines will be out in the next year and will be bought in enormous quantities, thus people will have the equipment for playback. Once that happens I think content will be there.

My personal opinion is that dropping thousands of dollars on an upconverting DVD player is money wasted because HD-DVD/BluRay are just around the corner (year or 2 out).

If and only if you want to be an early adaptor and deal with the high prices, lack of software, and glitchy hardware. I'd place bets on it not really being out for 5 years.

the Xbox2 is supposed to have a HDDVD in it

I think the latest rumor is the xbox2 is going to have just a normal dvd player.

Not to totally get off the subject of Samsung, but I thought I'd just quickly share some info I read the other day.

Originally posted by schaffer970
The PS3 will have a Bluray player in it and the Xbox2 is supposed to have a HDDVD in it (with any luck we will get to a common format - but that's another debate).

Then again, there's the possibility that the Xbox2 will NOT have HD-DVD in it in order to get to market way ahead of the PS3.

Check out this article: Xbox 2/Xbox 360 won't use either Blu-ray or HD DVD? (http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000243030781/)

(Just knocking the thread back on to the subject!)

I too will purchase the 1080p Sammy DLP when it arrives and will also get the HD-DVD as soon as they are available as well. But, as soon as the 1080p Sammy hits my floor, I'm going to be powering it with a small HTPC to watch DVDs. No DVD player out there can beat the power of a well tweaked HTPCs. And, when the bluray/HD-DVDs arrive (and they will exist first for computers and then later as a STB), I'll pop one of those in the machine as well. Just thought I'd throw that out there for those of you considering a new DVD player for your 1080p sammy. It does take a little more work to set up an HTPC, but they are well worth the time and money. Most of us who also use FP almost always use an HTPC to power it because we can more easily see the difference in the quality of the picture versus a STB DVD player. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and with the HTPC you can tweak it until it gives you your own personal perfect image....something not possible on STB DVD players.

Originally posted by TetsujinWave on 01-18-05 05:44 PM
If you could, Administrator, ask Steve P. about the extra HDMI input on the 78 series. Is that still planned?
I asked Steve about this today... Here's what he said:

The 68 and 78 series will feature two HDMI.

Originally posted by TMSKILZ on 01-21-05 12:30 PM
Clorox solid post!

I too am hoping like crazy Samsung includes this new cablecard tech into the 1080p sets being released by June.

Admin anyway you can hit up Mr.P about this question?
I asked Steve about this today... Here's what he said:

iDCR is a future feature, perhaps 2006 or later. By the time this feature hits, the cable industry will offer something different.

The standards are still to this day not totally defined and the development period is about 18 months. So, there's very little I can say about what to expect by the spring of 2006 unless something changes, and I mean dramatically changes.

I also asked Steve about the "screen smudging" issues today...

(For those who don't know, Steve Panosian is the Director of Marketing for Digital HDTV & DLP™ TV Products at Samsung Electronics America.)

--------------- Here's what I said:

"Do you know if the 2005 HLR's will be using the dual-pane screen that has been causing the "screen smudging" issues that some of the 2004 HLP's are having? Samsung seems to be acknowledging the problem and replacing with the single pane screen."

--------------- Here's what he said:

"screen smudging is a manufacturing defect, nothing to do with anything else. Replacing it with a single pane - not sure if this is the real fix. I know the replacement screen is from a different maker."

--------------- Then I said:

"So will the 2005 HLR's be using "the replacement screen from a different maker", or will they be using the same screens as the HLP's which are susceptible to the smudging?"

--------------- Then he said:

"The issue with the maker of the screens that are reported to have smudges is due to a defect in manufacturing. This will need to be resolved. There are only 2-3 makers of screens worldwide."

Originally posted by Administrator
I asked Steve about this today... Here's what he said:

The 68 and 78 series will feature two HDMI.

Thanks for the good news, Administrator. That seals it for me--it's the 6168 for the family room.

If no one else tells you, I highly appreciate your contribution to this thread. I know we don't want to bother Steve too much either, but he (and Samsung in general) has to be encouraged by the interest these sets have generated.

Once again, thanks.

TetsujinWave,

Thanks for the kind words, and thank you for posting all the great pics!

AkaStp,

According to the first post, the 50" 78-series is a tentative model (check that post for current updates).

Administrator;
Did your dicussion with Steve P. result in obtaining any insight/answers for "unknowns" poted at the very begining of this thread? Is there more info. you can share regarding your conversation?
Thanks!

Originally posted by AkaStp
Will there be a 50" version of the 68 or 78 series? Or is 50" too small for a 1080p set?
I just asked Steve about this...

--------------- Here's what I said:

"Is it still too early for this, or have dealers shown interest...

Wondering if there will be a 50" and/or 70" 1080p in the 68 or 78 Series?"

--------------- Here's what he said:

"too early. But, a 50 in the 78 is more likely. 70 in a 78 is more likely than before.

Still a possibility to go entirely the 68 series.

We need more warm and fuzzies from the dealer network."

What!? They may go soly with the 68 series, no 78's? Amazing that this still isn't settled at this relatively late date. (Actually, I would be happy with only 68's; don't really like the shiny black plastic border.) Now I just have to hope that they will do a 70" version of the 68, a hlr 7068.

Originally posted by hadleyfarm
Administrator;
Did your dicussion with Steve P. result in obtaining any insight/answers for "unknowns" poted at the very begining of this thread? Is there more info. you can share regarding your conversation?
Thanks!
I believe I have answered question # 4 in both "What we Don't Know" and "Items We Would Like To Test" on post 1.

We also talked about the bezel on the 78 Series because I mentioned that some people don't like it and think it may be reflective...

He said: "The consumer buying the product must see it, most of these people watch TV with the lights off anyway, so there's no reflection."

He also confirmed that the 2005 sets would be using an anti-glare screen like before.

Administrator, any feeling of whether or not they are "on schedule" with announced roll-out dates?

Originally posted by Administrator

We also talked about the bezel on the 78 Series because I mentioned that some people don't like it and think it may be reflective...

He said: "The consumer buying the product must see it, most of these people watch TV with the lights off anyway, so there's no reflection."


I don't think I agree with SP's above comment: I think most people watch TV with some lights on. So the shiny black plastic border on the tentative xx78's could be annoying. In looking at the present Samsung plasmas in BB and CC--which look identical to the pictures we've seen of the xx78's--I think the black plastic border is rather cheap looking. The matt black border on the present xx63's looks better (to me), and from the pictures this looks like the black border to the 'floating screen' xx68's.

I too would like to thank Administrator for conveying our various thoughts to SP, and it is a credit to the latter that Samsung seems to listen!

Originally posted by schaffer970
Administrator, any feeling of whether or not they are "on schedule" with announced roll-out dates?
I didn't specifically ask this, but my opinion is that they are on schedule. By July 1st, they HAVE to include integrated tuners. So they are under some pressure this year if they want to have a product to sell after July 1st...

I believe the black lacquer bezel on the 78 Series is similar to the bezel on the 85 Series, and I haven't heard anyone complain about those...

Maybe when you're sitting back away from the set you can't see any refections on the bezel?

I guess we'll have to wait and see. I'm sure some people won't like it, but others will. Everyone has different tastes, so this bezel may not appeal to everyone.

Samsungs theory is "Glossy looks richer".

So, if we don't have a cable card with the new 1080p sets, then we won't be able to use the new Tivo HD stand alone unit either....

Originally posted by Administrator

--------------- Then I said:

"So will the 2005 HLR's be using "the replacement screen from a different maker", or will they be using the same screens as the HLP's which are susceptible to the smudging?"

--------------- Then he said:

"The issue with the maker of the screens that are reported to have smudges is due to a defect in manufacturing. This will need to be resolved. There are only 2-3 makers of screens worldwide." [/B]

Thanks for bringing this up.
But Steve has not really clarified whether the new ones will have this problem or not. I have a HLP5085, which I would like to change to a 5087 if I am assured it will not have the smudge problem.

Originally posted by SoftwireEngineer
Thanks for bringing this up.
But Steve has not really clarified whether the new ones will have this problem or not. I have a HLP5085, which I would like to change to a 5087 if I am assured it will not have the smudge problem.
Well, Samsung knows about the problem and they have another screen manufacturer that doesn't have the smudging problem...

I believe the new sets will be smudge free.

Steve said "This will need to be resolved", indicating that they will need to make sure this is fixed before the new sets ship. That's what I got out of it anyway.

Originally posted by Doc Tonic
So, if we don't have a cable card with the new 1080p sets, then we won't be able to use the new Tivo HD stand alone unit either....

Your comment is a little brief, but the new 1080p sets will have CableCard. They will also have two 1394 ports so they would be able to support external devices.

I haven't been following the stand alone HD Tivo (because I already have a Motorola 6412 HD DVR), but wouldn't it have either 1394 input or CableCard support?

I have a 5674 and at times have thought that the set has smudges on the screen. What I've realized though is that it is just the reflection of light through my shades. I've sworn there was something wrong during the day but at night can never seem to find the problem.

I wonder if many people with the smudge problem are simply noticing these shadows and blaming it on the set, and then mentioning them only make people more worried about them. Just a thought.

Administrator ... thanks for the new information and updates. :) I am in the process of updating POST #1 to reflect this latest information.

Originally posted by UCSB
Administrator ... thanks for the new information and updates. :)
You're welcome! ;)

AkaStp,

Sorry.

I sincerely hope that they make a 50" screen for the HLR 68W and/or 78W as I would otherwise have to do some major redesign of my condo - knocking out walls, etc. ;)

Just a quick question re: the photos in the first post: some of the shoots seem to show the image that's clear in the middle of the sets then defuse as they go to the sides of the various sets. Is this a result of the shoot (camera) or is it really the way it looks?

Originally posted by Ed Weinman
Just a quick question re: the photos in the first post: some of the shoots seem to show the image that's clear in the middle of the sets then defuse as they go to the sides of the various sets. Is this a result of the shoot (camera) or is it really the way it looks?

The photographic process. The HDTV's will be sharp from edge to edge.

Originally posted by AkaStp

Would a 50" screen size be too small to do any justice to 1080p resolution or is 720p perfectly adequate for 50" (or 56")?

With regard to resolution (sharpness of the picture), you need to sit closer than ~twice the screen diagonal (therefore ~8 ft or closer for a 50" screen) to benefit from 1080p over 720p. There is, however, the higher constrast ratio of the new sets over the older ones that should increase PQ independent of the resolution effect.

UCSB,

That's what I hoped! Thanks.

A question I'd like to have Steve/Samsung address is...

Many HDTVs have had poor Standard Definition (SD) TV picture quality when compared to conventional CRTs. Besides the fact that NTSC/ATSC etc tuners will be standard on the upcoming 2005 line of Rear Projection DLP televisions, what technology enhancements has Samsung made to improve SDTV picture quality.

Why are the 1080p sets coming with only 1080i HDMI inputs?

Are there any announced 1080p sets that will accept and display a pure digital 1080p signal, without any sort of de-interlacing, downscaling-upscaling, digital-analog conversion, or processing of any sort?
*******************************************************
I have read conflicting reasons like HDMI cannot handle 1080p - That HDMI will handle 1080p, but HDCP will not allow it - All inputs are maxed at 1080i, as per ATSC standards, and must be deinterlaced for 1080p - And my favorite, it's all a Hollywood Conspiracy to deprive us of a pristine viewing experience.

*******************************************************
Yes, I know that there is not yet any 1080p source material via broadcast, ESPN HD, HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, etc..., except WMV HD content from Microsoft. However, I do not swap out sets every two or three years, so I am looking for a set that is as future-ready as possible. My CRT RPTV died, and I am currently watching a 26" TV from 14' away, which is the reason for some urgency.

It seems odd that the manufacturers' of these premium-priced sets handicap their main selling point with 1080i inputs.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/content_provider/film/ContentShowcase.aspx

*******************************************************
Thanks for your input! :)

J.T.

I have a, perhaps silly or pedantic, question. Please excuse my ignorance I don't understand TV technology very well; I am fully rooted in computer technology.

NOTE: This is perhaps a more general question but since I am interested in a 56" 1080 DLP when they come out I decided to ask it here since I have been following this thread and respect the input of many here.

Why overscan?

I have been looking into this and understand that the historical reasons for underscan are rooted in analog technology such as CRT scanning and power supply fluctuations. Clearly with technology such as DLP I can't see a technological reason for the continued use of overscan except related to broadcast signal standards. Is this right?

100% of my usage is from DVD / video game machines / computer input. I don't have an antenna all my media comes over the Internet. If I watch a DVD on my PC it isn't overscanning right?

I have seen some websites (google: DVD overscan) that talk about using zoom out features on DVD players to 'underscan' to recover the overscanned portions of movies. Certainly this extra interpolation is a very bad idea.

Am I right in assuming that front projector DLPs do not produce overscan?

Since most content is wider than 16x9 (movies at least) only the sides are lost, something like 58*1080 out of 1920*1080 pixels are lost assuming something like 3% overscan. This will slightly change all aspect ratios of movies.

I see an overscanning set to be a display with something like 1862x1047 where all the input signals are being pre-scanned to 1920x1080 and then cropped to fit in the screen. Why not just take the source material and scale it directly to the native resolution or refocus the light / make a slightly larger DLP chip so that a full 1920x1080 image resides in the viewable portion of the display?

If you are dealling with a broadcast signal that assumes overscanning then why not treat it as a slightly lower resolution source signal and upsample it to the real USABLE screen resolution (hopefully 1920x1080)?

Thanks,

John Jones

The high resolution photo gallery is now LIVE. You can link to it from the link at the bottom of this post OR from the HiRes area in POST #1.

Special thanks to TetsujinWave and Daphoid!!! TetsujinWave attended CES and supplied all of the photos in this gallery. Daphoid provided the web server, software and programming expertise to create the gallery.

The gallery has a number of special features that I would encourage you to try. These include rating the photos, creating a gallery of your own favorites, and performing searches. If you use the search function you can just enter the screen size that you are interested in and it will display all of the photos for that screen size. For example, if you are interested in 61" HDTV's just enter 61 in the search field.


For the Full High Resolution Gallery: CLICK HERE!!! (http://samsung.cerdonis.com/)


Special thanks to Daphoid for taking time out a very busy schedule in the last few days to complete this great project!

Well, it looks like you guys have shot the hell out of the rest of the week for me. How am I supposed to get anything else done with all of these great pictures to drool over?

Thanks guys, a spectacular job!!! :D

Thanks guys, a spectacular job!!! :D

You're welcome ... I hope everyone enjoys the pictures. In the gallery you can use the search button to search through the all of the galleries. Here is a TIP: use the model number that you are interested in as the search term. For example, if you are looking for a HLR6168W, just use 6168. That should bring up all of the 6168's. 5678, etc. Happy viewing. :)

In the HiRes Gallery you can rate the pictures. I have started to rate them, everyone is welcome to rate them as they view them. The only criteria that I am using is clarity and focus. So if the picture is sharp and fine detail is clear, it gets a 5. As the sharpness decreases, the rating is lowered.

I have a question that may seem a little trivial, however, if someone
has an answer I'd appreciate a response. I'm torn between the 67"68
and the 70"78. My question is that is after reviewing the pictures of these
units it appears that the base of the 68 floating head unit has a lip that
protrudes from the front and fits into a slot on the samsung base. Is it
going to be possible to mount this unit stabily on a stand of your choice?
The 78 series does not seem to have this problem. A 70" set means major
room reconfigurations for me.

I think both the 7078 as well as the 6768--and also both 61" models--have this stabilizing 'foot'. It looks to be just like the one on the present hlp6163, which is easily removed (10 screws on bottom); I removed the one on my 6163 and find that it is MORE stable sitting on my tv bench without the 'foot', and also looks better. So I'm planning to remove it on the 6768 or 7078 that I get.

I see that these new Samsung 1080p DLP have a native resolution of 1920 by 1080. But what is that point of having this high pixel count if it can even out 1080p? It says that in the beginning of the post that the HDMI will output 480i, 480p, 720, and 1080i. If this is true, does this also apply to all new 1080p microdisplay that are coming out for the next holiday season?

millerwill,

How did you remove the stabilization base? Did you tilt the set in order to get at it? What exactally did you do!?

Another question:

One of the '78 series photos shows a "DTS" designation at the bottom of the screen (lower right). Is this a result of a program that is being shown in DTS mode and, therefore, the set designates this?

Originally posted by Ed Weinman
millerwill,

How did you remove the stabilization base? Did you tilt the set in order to get at it? What exactally did you do!?

Yes, just set it on the floor and tilted it over enough to reach the screws (my wife held the top edge while I unscrewed them); very simple.

Between the 68W (with the "floating screen") and the 78W, does the screen height differ when measured from the base of the unit? In other words, I am interested to learn whether one screen starts higher from the base than the other (an issue because the television will be on a 30" stand and viewing angles, etc.).

I have studied the pics (thanks again!) but haven't found a satisfactory answer.

P.S. I tried to ask this question in a more artful manner earlier, but I lost the more detailed text before I could post it.

Ed_Newt: Very good question. It does appear that the distance from the bottom of the unit to the bottom of the screen is greater for the 68W than for the 78W, but this may be an optical illusion due to the 'floating screen'.

My room layout limits me to a 46" screen. 50" seems to be lowest for the 1080p's with 10,000:1 CR, and the CR on the 720ps hasn't been improved.

Am I out of luck in getting a 10000:1 CR at 46"?

Originally posted by Ed_Newt
Between the 68W (with the "floating screen") and the 78W, does the screen height differ when measured from the base of the unit? In other words, I am interested to learn whether one screen starts higher from the base than the other (an issue because the television will be on a 30" stand and viewing angles, etc.).

I have studied the pics (thanks again!) but haven't found a satisfactory answer.

P.S. I tried to ask this question in a more artful manner earlier, but I lost the more detailed text before I could post it.

I looked at this in Photoshop a couple of weeks ago and the the distance to the bottom of the screen is the SAME on both the 68 and 78 series.

Originally posted by shrikedoa
Am I out of luck in getting a 10000:1 CR at 46"?

YES. But, maybe you should rethink your room layout. You can watch a 1080p set from a closer distance ... up to 1.5x diagonal. This would only be 75" on a 50" set.

Originally posted by UCSB
I looked at this in Photoshop a couple of weeks ago and the the distance to the bottom of the screen is the SAME on both the 68 and 78 series.

UCSB: Are your photoshop tricks good enough to pull out some overall dimensions, for the 6768 and 7078, say? One can obviously calculate the screen size exactly, and that can calibrate the overall dimensions, perhaps. And the overall width of the 6768 is given in your introductory summary post.

Originally posted by Ed Weinman
Another question:

One of the '78 series photos shows a "DTS" designation at the bottom of the screen (lower right). Is this a result of a program that is being shown in DTS mode and, therefore, the set designates this?

The HL-R5078 was being fed from an upscaling dvd player showing "I, Robot" and other clips. It was the only one being fed in this manner. If you look towards the bottom of the picture, you can see it.

TetsujinWave,

Now I see! (I thought it was on the Samsung unit itself which had a DTS monitoring device! Time out of mind...O.K......!)

Originally posted by millerwill
UCSB: Are your photoshop tricks good enough to pull out some overall dimensions, for the 6768 and 7078, say? One can obviously calculate the screen size exactly, and that can calibrate the overall dimensions, perhaps. And the overall width of the 6768 is given in your introductory summary post.

I think I can come pretty close on the 6768. I'll take a shot at it and post the results.

The Samsung website is saying that the HLP4667W is using a 6 Segment Color Wheel at 10,800 RPM on the Specifications page:

http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?eUser=&prod_id=HLP4667WX%2fXAA&selTab=Specifications

I'm sure that's just a typo... Should be a 7 Segment Color Wheel.

(The HLP5067W page is saying 7 Segment Color Wheel.)

I thought the xx67's were supposed to be the 'floating screen' design, as indicated on pg1 of this thread. The Sam website shows them as the old xx63 frame.

Originally posted by millerwill
I thought the xx67's were supposed to be the 'floating screen' design, as indicated on pg1 of this thread. The Sam website shows them as the old xx63 frame.
The Samsung website is displaying the HLPxx67W, not HLR. HLR is "floating screen".

Originally posted by Administrator
The Samsung website is saying that the HLP4667W is using a 6 Segment Color Wheel at 10,800 RPM on the Specifications page...
I told Steve about this... He said it was a typo, and it's in the process of being fixed.

I asked Steve about the differences between the HLP and HLR 67 Series...

--------------- Here's what I said:

"Question: Will there still be some HLRxx67W sets with the new floating screen design, or will they all be HLPxx67W? If there will be HLRxx67W sets, what will be the difference between them and the HLP's (besides the screen design)?"

--------------- Here's what he said:

"New line... HLR... launch in stores mid may. HLRxx67 = floating screen design.

All new HLRxx67 series will offer over and above HLPxx67 series... 2,000:1 C/R vs. 1500; adds Gemstar EPG, DTV Link (1394) and ANYNET (rs232 Samsung Control Only). These are the major changes."

Does anyone know specifics on how the de-interlacing of 1080i to 1080p will be accomplished in the new Sammy 1080p displays? I'm trying to track down this info for all displays (Sammy and otherwise) that are 1080p native resolution but can only take up to 1080i input.

I have read most of the posts in this forum concerning deinterlacing. What I saw tended to cover the qualitative expectations rather than the specifics of how it will be accomplished. I'm interested in this because while lurking over in the Video Processor forums, I came across a discussion about the unsatisfactory nature of deinterlacing of HD cable from 1080i to 1080p, especially for sporting and live events. The consensus seemed to be that decent 1080i to 1080p deinterlacing should include either inverse telecine or motion adaptive deinterlacing. Or, at the least, one could make due with bob deinterlacing. From what I gathered, motion adaptive deinterlacing is a thing of the future (or big $$$) but inverse telecine and bob are available.

I'm certainly not knowledgeable on this stuff, so if this is a dumb question or not worth being concerned about, please let me know. -- Thanks.

Originally posted by donb1948
Does anyone know specifics on how the de-interlacing of 1080i to 1080p will be accomplished in the new Sammy 1080p displays?
Does this post help?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5012732#post5012732

Originally posted by AkaStp
The Samsung website is also saying that the HLP5067W has a DVI input which is also an error....
http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?eUser=&prod_id=HLP5067WX%2fXAA&selTab=Specifications
Thanks! I told Steve about the DVI Input being listed, and it's fixed now.

All new HLRxx67 series will offer over and above HLPxx67 series... 2,000:1 C/R vs. 1500; adds Gemstar EPG, DTV Link (1394) and ANYNET (rs232 Samsung Control Only). These are the major changes.

Anyone know if the DTV Link (Firewire) is input only?

Don't hurt me, I new!

To inquire more info, I replied to this e-mail from Steve:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5237779#post5237779

--------------- Here's what I said:

"I know no one is really talking about chips anymore for some reason... But is the new contrast ratio on the HLR's due to a newer chip?"

--------------- Here's what he said:

"light engine."


SO - It sounds like the HLRxx67W will still be using the HD3 chip.

I've updated the Series 67 release date to mid May in POST #1.

Steve said this in an e-mail to me the other day:

"TI isn't spending more resources developing the new gen DMDs."

I didn't think much of it at the time, but based on that and his answer in my last post about the increase in contrast ratio being a result of the light engine and not the DMD... Maybe there will be no new DMD chips this year??

My guess is that the 78 and 68 Series will be using the xHD3 chip and a newer light engine to obtain that higher contrast ratio...

Originally posted by Viin
Anyone know if the DTV Link (Firewire) is input only?

It is our current understanding that the 1394 ports will be two-way.

Originally posted by UCSB
I've updated the Series 67 release date to mid May in POST #1.
Thanks Bill.

As per Steve's confirmation here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5237779#post5237779), you could also remove the "Needs To Be Confirmed" from this line in the 67 Series:

- TV Guide Electronic Program Guide (Needs To Be Confirmed) (GEMSTAR TV Guide + GOLD Demo)


You can also list the confirmed DMD chip for the 67 Series as an HD3 chip according to this post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5238223#post5238223

UCSB, Administrator et al.,

Thanks so much for your posts and prompt responses to questions from newbies -- like myself. It is much appreciated.

Still waiting on the HLR5078W...
Edgar

Originally posted by Administrator
Does this post help?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5012732#post5012732

Thanks. I'd already read through these posts and was hoping to get more specific details on the processing from 1080i to 1080p.

The PQ resulting from the 1080i to 1080p conversion can vary significantly depending on the original source of the material. Apparently, all 1080i programming coming down an HD cable is not equal. My understanding, based on the previously mentioned Video Processor forum, is that almost everyone can handle "film" conversion from 1080i to 1080p fairly well. But, 1080i programming such as sporting events from some networks (for example those shooting the event in 1080i/30fps), live events and some regular programming shot using "video" can result in lousy PQ if an appropriate aforementioned technique is not employed. (As noted, I'm really not knowlegeable in this stuff and the above has already exceeded my limit of confidence.)

I am basically interested in knowing whether the 2005 Sammys use any specific deinterlacing techniques to account for the different deinterlacing needs of an HD cable 1080i signal due to the original source of the material. I suspect the info I'm looking for is not generally available; Just thought I'd check.

I'm trying to pass the time until the HLRs are out by trying to predict which size and model I'm going to end up purchasing. The 10000:1 CR on the new 1080p models has me convinced that either an HLRxx68 or an HLRxx78 is going to be sitting in my living room sometime in 2005! Between the incredible CR and the fact that the room is so small you can't get further than 7-8 feet from the screen, I have *GOT* to get me one of these 1080p sets!

Unfortunately, the room will only hold a 56" or smaller set, so I'm thinking my alternatives are the 5078, 5678, or 5668. Since the only difference between the 68s and the 78s is the packaging, and I don't think that will matter to me, I'm thinking I'll end up with whichever model I can get for the best price. Here's where I need some help.

From what we've been told, the different distribution channels for the 68s and 78s mean we can expect to find discounted prices on the 68s, but probably not (or at least, not as deeply discounted) on the 78s. I've got this right, right? If so (and assuming the MSRP guesses in post 1 are correct), that means a 5668 (MSRP $4,199) should be available for significantly less than a 5678 (also MSRP $4,199), and probably less than a 5078 (MSRP $3,899), assuming they even produce this tentative screen size.

Does this all make sense? It seems to say the HLR5668 is going to be the model of choice for me. I can live with that. Hell, I can get pretty excited about it! I just need a little reassurance that my reasoning makes sense to someone other than myself!

Oh, and by the way, I want to add my thanks to UCSB, Administrator, TetsujinWave, and all the others who have put in so much time and effort to get us everything we know so far about the HLRs! Great work, guys! And I also want to say it's nice to know there are others going out of their freaking minds waiting for these things to hit the shelves! (Daphoid, you are one wacky summabitch and I salute you, one wacky summabitch to another! Nice hat!)

thommy: I think your analysis is about right. And I too am itching to have one of these in my den (which my wife has generously let me have 'almost' free reign with!). I'm still a bit torn: I want all the screen I can get, but like the 'floating screen' format the best (at least from what I can tell form the pics). Thus I would like to have the 70" of the 7078 (if it comes into being), but like the form factor of the 67" 6768. Maybe 3" isn't enough to fret over, but I'm not planning to get one of these every year! And, of course, there was Steve P.'s critic comment somewhere above that Samsung might junk the xx78 sets altogether and just go with the 'floating screen' xx68's--perhaps even a 70"-er! So that would really solve all my desires, to have a 70" version of the xx68 series, a 7068--a model that has not yet been proposed!!

According to issue #60 (March/April) of The Perfect Vision;

"Texas Instruments will offer two new DLPs (sic) chips... The xHD3 is a 960x1080 mirror matrix that uses Wobulation to create 1920x1080 resolution "on screen". A second 1080p chip, which may be called the "HD4", will have a native 1920x1080 mirror matrix. Sources indicate front and rear single-chip projectors will begin to arrive in the second half of 2005." (Italics mine.)

What do you make of that? HD4s in the 78s, maybe? Or will they save them for FPs only? We can hope, can't we? Any insights?

Originally posted by ninthdragon
According to issue #60 (March/April) of The Perfect Vision;

"Texas Instruments will offer two new DLPs (sic) chips... The xHD3 is a 960x1080 mirror matrix that uses Wobulation to create 1920x1080 resolution "on screen". A second 1080p chip, which may be called the "HD4", will have a native 1920x1080 mirror matrix. Sources indicate front and rear single-chip projectors will begin to arrive in the second half of 2005." (Italics mine.)

What do you make of that? HD4s in the 78s, maybe? Or will they save them for FPs only? We can hope, can't we? Any insights? Hopefully the Perfect Vision source is right about this. I am impressed if TI actually made a HD4 with a 1080x1920 mirror resolution this year. At the same time something tells me that there will be a premium price for the HD4 and that it will probably only be seen in front projectors. TI will most likely charge three or four times more for the HD4 than the xHD3.

Originally posted by ninthdragon
According to issue #60 (March/April) of The Perfect Vision;

"Texas Instruments will offer two new DLPs (sic) chips... The xHD3 is a 960x1080 mirror matrix that uses Wobulation to create 1920x1080 resolution "on screen". A second 1080p chip, which may be called the "HD4", will have a native 1920x1080 mirror matrix. Sources indicate front and rear single-chip projectors will begin to arrive in the second half of 2005." (Italics mine.)

What do you make of that? HD4s in the 78s, maybe? Or will they save them for FPs only? We can hope, can't we? Any insights?
ninthdragon,

Thanks for the post! Steve had actually told me to read this month's Perfect Vision yesterday, but I hadn't gotten around to it yet...

He was telling me how the light engine design is more important then the chip...

--------------- Here's what he said:

"The real point is - the light engine design/techniq is the real differentiator, not the DMD. 2nd case in point, read this month's Perfect Vision review on our front projector."


If there is an HD4 chip in the 78 Series, then there will be an HD4 chip in the 68 Series too, because the only difference between these models is the case design...

My speculation, which I mentioned yesterday, is that the 78 and 68 Series will be using the xHD3 chip...

I was on the TI DLP site (DLP (www.dlp.com)) yesterday looking at things and decided to download the DLP Press Kit for CES (http://www.dlp.com/about_dlp/about_dlp_press_kit.asp). Within that kit is a paper entitled "The SmoothPicture™Algorithm: An Overview" (attached). This is the best thing I have seen on wobulation (except for the information on this site by Mr. Wiggles). Included is a discussion of both the HD3 and xHD3. Finally they compare the xHD3 to 1080P LCOS. The conclusion of the paper is that :

The technology displaces the optical image by
½ pixel thus utilizing each DMD mirror to
display two pixels on the display face. The
SmoothPicture™ technology results in a
smooth film-like image without visible pixelization
while displaying all of the image data
supplied by the video source.

RP and Administrator,

I think that both of you are probably correct in your assesment of this bit of news. Being the dreamer that I am though, I can't help but wonder if an HD4 chip, with the latest hardware upgrades, combined with software tweaks and an upgraded CW (to further combat those pesky color separation artifacts), and packaged in a 67 or 70 inch RP, wouldn't give the Q6 a serious run for its money.

I know, I know -- there are probably 100 good reasons why this couldn't, wouldn't, and/or shouldn't happen. But, it does seem a lot more do-able, not to mention cost efficient, than a 3 chipper -- at least for the foreseeable future.

schaffer970,

If I read this paper correctly, even an xHD3 (not to mention xHD4) chip is capable of showing some of the video goodness I mention above. I for one am going to take it to the next level! In this case that means waiting around until these sets are on the market and available for real world analysis. Sigh. :(

"The waiting is the hardest part." -- Tom Petty

Good work guys. Thanks for the info.

Sorry if a bit off topic or has already been discussed. But this question just popped into my head and I'm interested to hear what people in this thread think...

If I were to offer you a free Samsung 70" HLR7078W *today* ($6,399 MSRP, not available for months), or a Sony Qualia 006 (like $13,000 MSRP, available today), which would you chose and why? Both are 1080p sets and highly sought after! I realize we're all Samsung fans in this thread - but lets be honest with ourselves.

To be truthful I don't have the money nor do I know enough to make a good choice. I've seen neither set with my own eyes. However, because I've heard so much rave about the Qualia, and since it's available today I think that would be my choice.

Since in reality I will be paying for it - it's no question and I will get a Samsung DLP instead!

Originally posted by AkaStp
Is there any reason to believe that the newer Samsung models will be less likely to exhibit the rainbows effect?
I haven't read anything that would indicate that any single chip display has been designed to eliminate rainbows for some people. So far, using a color wheel translates into some amount of rainbow effect.

Is there a reason why the 1080P Models do not have a 46" model? Some of us unlucky folks don't have the space for anything bigger.

Originally posted by conanbarb
Is there a reason why the 1080P Models do not have a 46" model? Some of us unlucky folks don't have the space for anything bigger.
I think one reason is cost... A while ago, Steve Panosian told me:

"A 46" DLP TV by year end will need to sell at or near $1999."

Question,

Why the big price jump between the HLR6168W and the HLR6768W.
For the extra 6 inches there is an estimated $1500 difference in price. I personally would jump up from a 61 to a 67 for maybe $500-$700 more. For a $1500 premium I think I would just stick with the 61 inch model.

Would you all pay that much more for a 67 inch over a 61 inch?

Jeff

Originally posted by Jefftaz
Question,

Why the big price jump between the HLR6168W and the HLR6768W.
For the extra 6 inches there is an estimated $1500 difference in price. I personally would jump up from a 61 to a 67 for maybe $500-$700 more. For a $1500 premium I think I would just stick with the 61 inch model.

Would you all pay that much more for a 67 inch over a 61 inch?

Jeff $1500 for a few extra inches is extremely high...but then again there is a market for those extra inches...my HLP6163 seems to get smaller each day...I am totally in the market for a 67" or bigger, hopefully when it comes time to ship these puppies they will be at a more reasonable price maybe around or under $5500...we can only hope!

I want my 6168 Samsung HDTV & I want it now, screw June! :mad:

This is my 400th post and I wanted to put it in this Samsung discussion because i, too, can not wait for the new sets. I'm holding my financial breath and praying that the house doesn't fall down and/or family get sick so that we can save for this new entertainment experience!

(The biggest concern is that, after having CRTs all my life, the possible negative effects of a new technology might alter my desire for this set...something that I'll only know when I get the chance, along with my family, to see it in action.)

Same here. While I don't think I can fit the 67" into the space I have available in the den, the 61" should be just about right.

I'm really having trouble deciding on these sets. On the one hand, I really like the 5078 series, largely because of the smaller size and high contrast ratio. I am moving to a new apartment right before these models come out, and I'm not really sure I can squeeze in anything larger than the 50" set. However, I'm very concerned with screen glare, and the 78 series sets make it look like I'd only be able to watch TV in the dark with one of those sets. Finally, the 78 series is clearly going to be more expensive than the 68 series simply based on where the models will be sold, which makes the 78 series a turn-off. Plus, IMHO, the 78 series look a little tacky compared to the 68 series.

However, the 68 series only has 56" and above, and I'm just not sure that I'd be able to go with a larger screen size (is a 6" change really that big a difference?) These TVs are huge!!! I'm going to be living in a one bedroom apartment with this thing in the living room. However, the 68 series has a nicer look (IMO), same contrast ratio, and will probably be cheaper than the 5078.

What do you folks think? I feel like I am stuck... If only Samsung made a 5068. Also, I was kind of thinking that it might just be smarter for me to go with the HLR 4667 series, but I'm just not sure. Sure, I'll be giving up the resolution and some size (which could be better considering that my living room might not be too big), but with a 46", I'm probably going to have a pretty comfortable viewing distance, so it really shouldn't matter much, right? However, the contrast ratios are much lower on the HLR 67 series, so that is a huge drawback.

Someone, please smack me.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Clorox
[B]I'm really having trouble deciding on these sets. On the one hand, I really like the 5078 series, largely because of the smaller size and high contrast ratio. I am moving to a new apartment right before these models come out, and I'm not really sure I can squeeze in anything larger than the 50" set.

What will be your viewing distance? With a 1080p set, one can view these as close as 1.5 x screen diagonal (and in fact that's presumably why one gets a super-high resolution set). So you can view a 61" set from as close as ~ 7.5 ft, a 56" one from 7.0 ft, or a 50" one from 6.25 ft.

Originally posted by Clorox
However, the 68 series only has 56" and above, and I'm just not sure that I'd be able to go with a larger screen size (is a 6" change really that big a difference?)
The difference is not small. Going from a 50 to a 56 expands viewing area by a full 25%.

I've heard lots of people (including my wife, who was initially anti-HD!) say that, now that they're used to the screen they have, they wish it was bigger. Are you sure you're different?

I was thinking I could step up to a 61" from my 32" Toshiba, and realized the 61" would more than double the width of my viewing area.

Mmmmm....viewing area.

From a negotiation standpoint with the wife, how do you approach screen size? If I start with a 61" as the opener, she'll shoot me down completely. If I go with the 56" starting point, I have a shot. Just have to hope she doesn't talk me down to 50" and the Kirk.

Even the Kirk is better than the 32" of Toshiba love I have now.

Originally posted by Clorox
I'm really having trouble deciding on these sets. On the one hand, I really like the 5078 series, largely because of the smaller size and high contrast ratio. I am moving to a new apartment right before these models come out, and I'm not really sure I can squeeze in anything larger than the 50" set. However, I'm very concerned with screen glare, and the 78 series sets make it look like I'd only be able to watch TV in the dark with one of those sets. Finally, the 78 series is clearly going to be more expensive than the 68 series simply based on where the models will be sold, which makes the 78 series a turn-off. Plus, IMHO, the 78 series look a little tacky compared to the 68 series.

However, the 68 series only has 56" and above, and I'm just not sure that I'd be able to go with a larger screen size (is a 6" change really that big a difference?) These TVs are huge!!! I'm going to be living in a one bedroom apartment with this thing in the living room. However, the 68 series has a nicer look (IMO), same contrast ratio, and will probably be cheaper than the 5078.

What do you folks think? I feel like I am stuck... If only Samsung made a 5068. Also, I was kind of thinking that it might just be smarter for me to go with the HLR 4667 series, but I'm just not sure. Sure, I'll be giving up the resolution and some size (which could be better considering that my living room might not be too big), but with a 46", I'm probably going to have a pretty comfortable viewing distance, so it really shouldn't matter much, right? However, the contrast ratios are much lower on the HLR 67 series, so that is a huge drawback.

Someone, please smack me.

Clorox - I'm in an apartment too with a relatively small living room. Have you thought about the 50" Kirk model? The HLR will be out in April. I may still go with the HLP. The prices are starting to free fall. I've started seeing them on the internet for slightly under $3,000. I'm going to get the matching stand for my components and mount a glass shelf to the wall for my center channel speaker. If I do say so myself, it will be a sweet setup. :)

Originally posted by draftnik1
I was thinking I could step up to a 61" from my 32" Toshiba, and realized the 61" would more than double the width of my viewing area.

Mmmmm....viewing area.

The relevant parameter is the viewing distance (i.e., related to the angle your eye makes from the left to rightmost edge of the screen). You are wasting your money on 1080p resolution if you view at much more than 2 x screen diagonal (your eye can't tell the difference between 1080p and 720p at this distance), and 1.5 x is about as close as is reasonable to sit. For a 61"-er, for example, this means a viewing distance of between 7.5 and 10 ft., and so on for others.

Originally posted by millerwill
The relevant parameter is the viewing distance (i.e., related to the angle your eye makes from the left to rightmost edge of the screen). You are wasting your money on 1080p resolution if you view at much more than 2 x screen diagonal (your eye can't tell the difference between 1080p and 720p at this distance), and 1.5 x is about as close as is reasonable to sit. For a 61"-er, for example, this means a viewing distance of between 7.5 and 10 ft., and so on for others.

Does that mean that I should sit between 45 ft and 60 ft from a 30 ft movie theater screen? Seems to me the sweet spot of a movie theater is considerably larger than 15 ft ~ 5 rows.

I for one can only accomidate a 56" in the built in 'hole' in my wall and my couch is ~ 120" (my head position) from the screen position. I expect to be able to see a difference in my case although I am > 2x away. I guess we will have to wait for TVs to hit the showroom floor to know for sure.

If not I may go for the HLP5674W if I haven't missed the boat.

Originally posted by John_Jones_CA
Does that mean that I should sit between 45 ft and 60 ft from a 30 ft movie theater screen? Seems to me the sweet spot of a movie theater is considerably larger than 15 ft ~ 5 rows.

I for one can only accomidate a 56" in the built in 'hole' in my wall and my couch is ~ 120" (my head position) from the screen position. I expect to be able to see a difference in my case although I am > 2x away. I guess we will have to wait for TVs to hit the showroom floor to know for sure.

If not I may go for the HLP5674W if I haven't missed the boat.

A valid and logical point made. I currently have an HLP 6163 and at an 8 foot distance I start to see the separate pixels on the screen. I know the film screen in a theater does not have this problem, thus we can sit closer without it being problematic.

I just thought of something. Considering most people want to use DVI and/or HDMI if possible to get the best picture quality... what do most people do? I assume I'm not the only one who has:

- DVD Player
- HDTV Cable Box
- Computer

Now I know things like the Sony Playstation, Microsoft Xbox, etc, can just use component as that's all they have, and be happy (btw, speaking of PS2, I found "HDTV 1080i" mode in Gran Turismo 4 last night and giggled like a school girl because it will look sexy on my new DLP).. So how do you decide which device gets the axe and has to use component? Which gets used the least? what? I know my computer will take up one HDMI port (DVI-HDMI cable), but how do I decide between DVD and TV, I want both to look good? Oh why oh why can't we have 2 HDMI, 2 DVI, or 3 HDMI? *sighs*

- D

Originally posted by Daphoid
... what do most people do?
1. Comcast Digital -> DVI connector on HDMI cable to HLP HDMI port.

2. HTPC using TheaterTek for DVD's via DVI to HLP DVI port.

3. Older Sony DVD player at 480i to HLP component input.

This setup gives me good DVD playback and good digital SD/HD TV.

If I mess up the computer I can still watch movies and TV. :rolleyes:

The long term solution is a home theater receiver with multiple HDMI inputs and outputs. Think of eliminating the optical cable (or digital coaxial) and the component cables (four leads) for one HDMI cable. I would think this will be a relative quick conversion. Hopefully we will see something like the Onkyo HT in the near future with HDMI. I believe that I read that there were some high end receivers with HDMI inputs/outputs at CES, so it will just be a matter of time.

In the mean time, priorities, priorities, priorities...

D ... you could use the built in Cablecard, it may work better than an external cable box and you would be set. I currently have a Motorola 6412 HD DVR which I will not want to give up!!! But, the DVI and component output are pretty much the same on the unit so I don't feel bad using component output. Also, don't forget the VGA input that can handle the computer as another option.

Hmm good point, I'll have to play with it.. which is a pain considering where I'm running it from. I guess once the final units are released, I'll take a look at all the inputs and make a decision from there.

- D

Originally posted by millerwill
The relevant parameter is the viewing distance (i.e., related to the angle your eye makes from the left to rightmost edge of the screen). You are wasting your money on 1080p resolution if you view at much more than 2 x screen diagonal (your eye can't tell the difference between 1080p and 720p at this distance), and 1.5 x is about as close as is reasonable to sit. For a 61"-er, for example, this means a viewing distance of between 7.5 and 10 ft., and so on for others.

Given this very tight relavant range for a 1080p my next consideration is what about the 10K:1 contrast ratio? Is that worth higher price and wait?

Originally posted by Administrator
You can also list the confirmed DMD chip for the 67 Series as an HD3 chip according to this post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5238223#post5238223

Administrator ... I have been thinking about this post you made a few days ago. I really believe that the 67 Series will be using the new HD4 chip. I acknowledge that the light engine is critical and that Samsung is making some great advances ... especially on the 1080p models, but everything that we have learned to-date points to the new HD4 in these models. I am reluctant to move our spec's in POST #1 from the HD4 back to the HD3. Since this is a really important change to our current understanding, I'd like to open this up to further discussion.

:)

Don't forget that several manufacturers clearly listed their 720p sets as HD4 sets. So the new 1080p chips may have to use another nomenclature. This Sharp 720p television is but one example. Since Optoma used it too, I don't think they're mistaken about which chip is in it.

Originally posted by dafinman
Given this very tight relavant range for a 1080p my next consideration is what about the 10K:1 contrast ratio? Is that worth higher price and wait?

Yes, the Contrast Ratio is another element that will make these new HLR sets have better PQ. My comments about the viewing distance strictly related to resolution.

Originally posted by mshap
Clorox - I'm in an apartment too with a relatively small living room. Have you thought about the 50" Kirk model? The HLR will be out in April. I may still go with the HLP. The prices are starting to free fall. I've started seeing them on the internet for slightly under $3,000. I'm going to get the matching stand for my components and mount a glass shelf to the wall for my center channel speaker. If I do say so myself, it will be a sweet setup. :)

mshap - I think that the kirk is out of the question, mostly because I want to use a cabinet that can hold more than the pedistal stand shelves, and also because using the pedistal tv with the pedistal stand, to me, partially defeats the purpose of having the pedistal tv.

I guess I'm not too worried about viewing distance. It will definitely be at least 7.5 feet, so I should be fine even with a 56" display.

I guess I'm going to keep on saving for the 5068 set.

Originally posted by schaffer970
I believe that I read that there were some high end receivers with HDMI inputs/outputs at CES, so it will just be a matter of time.
Denon has one currently for sale, the AVR-5805. Have a look at the rear panel (http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/photo.asp?s=home&p=AVR-5805&f=AVR5805%20Back.jpg&c=2). Now if it were $600 instead of $6,000.... One day.

Halcro has one for $10,000 and I believe Outlaw was coming out with something which will be in the "affordable" range.

Originally posted by schaffer970
Think of eliminating the optical cable (or digital coaxial) and the component cables (four leads) for one HDMI cable. I would think this will be a relative quick conversion.
Oh, and one last off-topic comment, I also wanted to respond that HDMI isn't yet what you might hope for in HT audio. See this article (http://news.designtechnica.com/talkback45.html) and the related discussion board.

Originally posted by jensph
Oh, and one last off-topic comment, I also wanted to respond that HDMI isn't yet what you might hope for in HT audio. See this article (http://news.designtechnica.com/talkback45.html) and the related discussion board.

I fail to see the use of HDMI over DVI unless you have a $10,000 receiver. I mean it is great to have a digital connection for your picture. But do we really need digital audio for our 15W paper speakers built into the tv? Who has a home theater setup without a receiver? Most of us still have to connect our reciver to our cable box, dvd player, xbox, etc, with fiber. The 5685 has a DVI and HDMI connectior, woopty; my receiver will control all sound so the HDMI input is just a DVI for me.

A smaller connector for HDMI. The DVI connector is huge in comparison.

Does anyone have even a 'guess-imate' at the DEPTH of the new largest HLR's, the 6768 and 7078? [This is now the most critical dimension as I design a center speaker shelf for a new (heavy, ~34 lb) center speaker I'm getting.] They will presumably be a couple of inches deeper than the present hlp6163, unless the new light engine has been designed to narrow the depth. Any thoughts?

Originally posted by millerwill
Does anyone have even a 'guess-imate' at the DEPTH of the new largest HLR's, the 6768 and 7078? [This is now the most critical dimension as I design a center speaker shelf for a new (heavy, ~34 lb) center speaker I'm getting.] They will presumably be a couple of inches deeper than the present hlp6163, unless the new light engine has been designed to narrow the depth. Any thoughts?

We know the new models are roughly the same depth as the current models. So, I would expect something in the 18" - 19" range. There is a possiblity that the new 67 series is 1" thinner than the current models. If this is carried over into the 68 / 78 series, than I would guess that the thinnest they could probably be would be around 17".

Samsung said in their press release for the HLR models that for the 67 Series (61", 56" 50" and 46" 720P models) that the depth would range from 12" to 17". The 67 Series will use the floating screen style.

Whether the depths for the 68 and 78 Series will be similar is a good question. I also wonder how much depth will need to be added for the 67" or the 70".

Originally posted by schaffer970
Samsung said in their press release for the HLR models that for the 67 Series (61", 56" 50" and 46" 720P models) that the depth would range from 12" to 17". The 67 Series will use the floating screen style.

Whether the depths for the 68 and 78 Series will be similar is a good question. I also wonder how much depth will need to be added for the 67" or the 70".

Thanks to you and UCSB for your thoughts. From your comment above, it sounds like the 6167 will be 17", almost identical to the present hlp6163 (which might have been expected), and as you say, since the xx67's are a floating screen design, it stands to reason that their depth will be about the same as the xx68's (unless the 1080p light engine requires greater depth than the 720p one). So UCSB's estimate of ~ 17 to 19" for the 6768 and 7078 seems like as good a guess as one can make at present.

UCSB, you asked about chip designations. I think what you currently have in post one is correct. The only thing I question is the CR on the 67 Series, but that is the number on the placard (seems like it should be higher - but who knows).

As far as the secrecy regarding the chip designations, my current working theory (and only my own) is that the xHD4 chips are real 1920x1080, not wobulated. I base this partly on a recent article from Digitimes that made a big deal out of TI being able to produce 1080p chips. xHD3 chips (wobulated, 960x1080) should not be a problem for TI to make as they have been making similar chips for quite some time, so why the big deal? Also in the current Perfect Vision magazine they say that TI has a 1920x1080 chip. I think that TI was unsure that they could produce 1920x1080 chips reliably and thus if they had to stay with the wobulated chips they didn't want expectations raised. Thats my story and I'm sticking with it until someone comes along with a better one (or real facts are revealed) :D

Originally posted by schaffer970

As far as the secrecy regarding the chip designations, my current working theory (and only my own) is that the xHD4 chips are real 1920x1080, not wobulated. I base this partly on a recent article from Digitimes that made a big deal out of TI being able to produce 1080p chips. xHD3 chips (wobulated, 960x1080) should not be a problem for TI to make as they have been making similar chips for quite some time, so why the big deal? Also in the current Perfect Vision magazine they say that TI has a 1920x1080 chip. I think that TI was unsure that they could produce 1920x1080 chips reliably and thus if they had to stay with the wobulated chips they didn't want expectations raised. Thats my story and I'm sticking with it until someone comes along with a better one (or real facts are revealed) :D

According to the TPV article, the non-Wobulated 1080p chip is known as the HD4, and is due out this summer. The release of both types of chips may be sort of a real-world beta test. The xHD3 could be an economy based model (affordable 1080p for the masses), while the HD4 could be the first step toward a consumer oriented 3 chip, price no object, 1080p DLP. I have no idea how real any of what I just said is or could be, but, as a (baseless) theory, I like it. :D

Not sure if this has been reported earlier in this thread but my POC down at Samsung tells me that they are most likely not going to be offering the HLR 5688 line.

I guess they are having trouble moving the current HLP Kirk line and dealers are giving alot of push back on the newer models.

Again, nothing is official or concrete but that is what I am hearing from my POC.

BigJJL

Originally posted by BigJJL
Not sure if this has been reported earlier in this thread but my POC down at Samsung tells me that they are most likely not going to be offering the HLR 5688 line.

I guess they are having trouble moving the current HLP Kirk line and dealers are giving alot of push back on the newer models.

Again, nothing is official or concrete but that is what I am hearing from my POC.

BigJJL

Thanks, BigJJL. This is the first report that we have heard about this possibility. If anyone has been asking their dealer about the HLR5688W, please report what you have been hearing. I think many of us have felt that the pedestal line is on the way out after not seeing a single unit on display in the DLP area at CES.

Originally posted by draftnik1
I was thinking I could step up to a 61" from my 32" Toshiba, and realized the 61" would more than double the width of my viewing area.

Mmmmm....viewing area.

From a negotiation standpoint with the wife, how do you approach screen size? If I start with a 61" as the opener, she'll shoot me down completely. If I go with the 56" starting point, I have a shot. Just have to hope she doesn't talk me down to 50" and the Kirk.

Even the Kirk is better than the 32" of Toshiba love I have now.

Do what I did :D Buy the 61" and when it gets home exclaim: "HOLY CRAP THIS IS TOO BIG". Arrange an exchange for the 56" and after 2 weeks cancel it saying: "I decided to keep this one". True story!

It's March, just 3 more stinking months till June!

:(

Well, at least, if June is the magic month...then we should hear something earlier (to feed our insatiable appetites!).

Originally posted by Administrator
If there is an HD4 chip in the 78 Series, then there will be an HD4 chip in the 68 Series too, because the only difference between these models is the case design...

My speculation, which I mentioned yesterday, is that the 78 and 68 Series will be using the xHD3 chip...

Adminstrator,

The next time you email/contact Steve, will you ask him if he will confirm if the 68 & 78 series will be using the wobulated xHD3 chip or a true 1920x1080 chip (HD4?)?

It would be way cool if these new HLR's would have the sharpness of the HD2+ chip, but in a 1080 format like a possible HD4 chip!!!:cool:

Also I'd love to ask him if Samsung could/would release detailed info on these new models ahead of time. Like put out on their website a "coming soon" section of new models with physical dimensions and a summary of features. (I'm dying to know how well a HLR6168 or HLR6768 would fit in my current setup.)

Thanks!


Ron

I wish they had a coming soon section, but i think some manufacturers shy away from doing that because it'll hurt current sales when people go "oh, there's a better one just around the corner, maybe I'll wait." Right now, it's implied that there's something better just around the corner, but usually, out of sight/site = out of mind.

Maybe this was asked before....Has anybody looked at or photographed the screen of the 68 & 78 series? Surely a diamond shaped pixel would indicate a wobulated DMD.

There has been a lot of talk(and dismay) about no 1080p HDMI input on this generation, but things are in the works. 1080p/60Hz HDMI chips are finally coming. (http://www.hdmi.com/press/pr/pr_20050301.asp)
Designed for Intel CPU-based chipsets, the SiI 1390 transmitter accepts Intel’s Serial Digital Video Output (SDVO) input and offers a fully compliant HDMI output capable of supporting video resolutions up to UXGA and 1080p with up to eight channels of 192kHz audio. It supports both motherboard-down applications for desktop and notebook PCs, as well as ADD2 card applications. The SiI 1930 HDMI transmitter also provides an HDMI output. Designed for graphics card applications using a discrete Graphics Processor Unit (GPU), the SiI 1930 features a Transition-Minimized Differential Signaling (TMDS ®) interface to the GPU. The SiI 1368 transmitter supports Intel’s SDVO input and offers a DVI-HDCP output.This is from an announcement on HDMI PC's, but if they are going to be making 1080p transmitters, you know that 1080p HDMI receivers are on the way. As much as I'm looking forward to seeing these new Sammy's, I'll be waiting for at least the next gen.....again :(

Originally posted by UCSB
Thanks, BigJJL. This is the first report that we have heard about this possibility. If anyone has been asking their dealer about the HLR5688W, please report what you have been hearing. I think many of us have felt that the pedestal line is on the way out after not seeing a single unit on display in the DLP area at CES.

I hope this is not the case but I just called one of the local dealers here and inquired about the current 5685 and the 5688 upcoming. He told me the 5685 is not even a stock item for him and the only way it is being offered is through special order from Samsung. This leads me to believe the 5685 is going to be phased out (with any luck for the 5688). He did not know any details about the 5688 release date, so this means it wont be in the near future otherwise he would of been able to place the pre-order.

He also mentioned it is getting more difficult to make a sale to an educated customer with 1080p right around the corner, so for all of our sakes lets get these bad boys out to the stores. And with my new home move in date being in less than two weeks I need to make up my mind.

Does anyone know if these new sets like the HLR6168 or HLR6167 will be sharper in PQ than the HLP6163...or as sharp as the HD2+ units out now. I also noticed on the TVA site that the HLR6168 was going to be released at the end of the first Q 2005.

The TVA website is incorrect about the first Q 2005. The HLR6168 will be available (hopefully) in June with all the rest of the 68 series. The first Q 2005 is an artifact from the template TVA used for the webpage.

As far as the sharpness of the sets, the presumption is that the DLP used in these sets will be wobulated (although there is some question about this) and thus may have the more "movie" like appearance that the HD3 sets have. You can see some large sized pictures that are part of post one in this thread that give you some idea of picture quality.

Do we have any reason to believe wobulation is visually worse than non-wobulation? I ask because film, which we all like (at least aspire to), swaps entire images rather quickly to make visually-fluid motion. Those little swinging LED toys make words in thin air. So I'm not sure that I would notice the difference between one source as two pixels or two sources as two pixels, if done quickly enough. My only fear would be reduced brightness, no?

Curious question. How much additional space does one need on the sides? I've got an entertainment cabinet, roughly 52" wide for the TV.

Granted, I don't know if there are additional inputs/outputs on the side (or the front?)

Originally posted by almt
Curious question. How much additional space does one need on the sides? I've got an entertainment cabinet, roughly 52" wide for the TV.

Granted, I don't know if there are additional inputs/outputs on the side (or the front?)

You will only need minimal space on each side. Basically, if it fits in the cabinet you will be OK. Having a space on the top of cabinet above the TV is more important because hot air will be coming up the back of the TV and out over the top of the TV.

Originally posted by TechnoCat
My only fear would be reduced brightness, no?

These set are extremely bright. Brightness should not be an issue. They all have high contrast ratios.

Originally posted by UCSB
Comments by KyungKim (CES Attendee)

10,000 to 1 as its listed on all of their product tags. The blacks were really incredible. Its blackety black and its black y'all. Comparing to the 720p set, the black levels were noticeably lower on the 1080p sets.


This is what I hope holds true. I'm giving a 4674 a trial and the blacks just aren't good enough, I guess I'm spoiled by my Mits CRT. Also a bit of a rainbow problem, so I'm returning it.

The sets shown at CES were wobulated sets. However, they were much sharper than the HD2+ sets that were also at the show. At the TI booth you could compare the Samsung and LG 1080p sets side by side with HD2+ and HD3 sets from other manufacturers. I thought the picture quality of the 1080p sets was clearly superior. The TI demo set was nothing short of spectacular.

I'm going to pick up the Perfect Vision today and look at it, but again, the HD4 was clearly described at CES by Optoma and Sharp (who broke protocol by naming which TI DMD was used in their sets) as a 720p wobulated DMD.

When TI debuts this new 1080p 1:1 mirror chip (because we all know it's only a matter of time), I hope the prices aren't much more expensive than the xHDy sets...in any case I'm sure you can count on a few of us to give our opinions on PQ differences between them.

Also, I'm curious to see the PQ from Toshiba and Panasonic on their upcoming 1080p DLPs. Something to look forward to at CES 2006 perhaps...

Originally posted by TetsujinWave
The sets shown at CES were wobulated sets. However, they were much sharper than the HD2+ sets that were also at the show. At the TI booth you could compare the Samsung and LG 1080p sets side by side with HD2+ and HD3 sets from other manufacturers. I thought the picture quality of the 1080p sets was clearly superior.

TetsunjinWave,

So you were able to see the new 1080p sets right next to a 720p HD2+ set?

Can you confirm if at the Samsung booth where they showed one of their 720p sets and a new 1080p set of the same size right next to each other, that the 720p set was infact using the HD2+ chip (instead of an HD3 chip)???

Thanks!


Ron

At the Samsung booth, no. The 61" 720p DLP was in a housing where it was impossible to tell the set (or for that matter, the chip being used in the set) the 1080p HLR6168 was being compared to--but that's not what I'm talking about.

At the TI booth, they had several sets set up in pods. These ranged from the HD2+ Toshiba, Panasonic, and Sagem sets to HD3 powered DLP sets from complanies like Optoma. In addition, they had the HLR6768 and the LG 62SY2D 1080p set in adjacent pods as well--so you could compare the PQ of the 720p sets and the 1080p sets pretty much side by side. If that wasn't enough, the incredible 70" 1080p TI demo set had its own theater right behind the pods. Since it is in TI's best interests to have all of the DLPs there looking their best, I trust that side-by-side comparison more than what was offered at the Samsung booth, even though the result was pretty much the same. The PQ on the 1080p sets is much sharper and richer.

If you look back at the picture of the 6168 with the people on the hammock (it has "1080p" written below the set), that is the 720p/1080p comparison from the Samsung booth. The following picture of the 6768 is from the TI booth, to give an idea of what the pods looked like. I posted several pictures of 720p sets in similar pods on the CES thread.

Briefly, yes, the Samsung booth had a 61" 720p and a 61" 1080p 6168 set next to each other. However, since Samsung is still in the business of selling 720p sets, you couldn't really tell which 720p set it was being compared to. You couldn't even tell if it was a Samsung set at all.

And yes, the difference between the two was plainly visible.

I happened to browse through Magnolia HiFi this afternoon, and my friendly salesman checked and saw that the hlr 6168 and 6768 are listed as being scheduled to arrive in June--so things seem to be on schedule! He did not, however, have the xx78 sets on this info sheet. ???

Originally posted by TetsujinWave
Briefly, yes, the Samsung booth had a 61" 720p and a 61" 1080p 6168 set next to each other. However, since Samsung is still in the business of selling 720p sets, you couldn't really tell which 720p set it was being compared to. You couldn't even tell if it was a Samsung set at all.

And yes, the difference between the two was plainly visible.

Do you have a guess as to what chip was in the 720p set that Samsung was using in the side-by-side comparison with the new 1080p 6168?

An HD3 chip or a HD2+ chip?

My sneeking suspicion is that it probably was a HD3 chip - comparing wobulated 720 vs wobulated 1080 as to gain the most advantage in PQ. ;)

I will quote myself.

Originally posted by TetsujinWave
At the Samsung booth, no. The 61" 720p DLP was in a housing where it was impossible to tell the set (or for that matter, the chip being used in the set) the 1080p HLR6168 was being compared to--but that's not what I'm talking about.


At the TI booth, there were 1080p DLPs next to HD3 DLP sets and HD2+ sets from different manufacturers in pods. You could compare whatever set you wanted to the 1080p DLPs (by LG and Samsung), whether it was the HD2+ Panasonic or the HD3 Samsung. The 1080p sets were clearer and had a better picture than the HD3 and the HD2+ sets.

I don't know how I can make a more distinct statement than that.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if it was a HD3 set.

Samsung has posted a holding place on their website for CeBIT 2005 (http://www.samsung.com/Features/index.htm) . It looks like it will be similar to what they did for CES. Hopefully they will release some more information on the upcoming sets. The show is March 10-16 in Hannover, Germany.

Okay, I know I'm dreaming a bit here, but $5000+ bucks is not small change and I want to know what I will or will not be getting for my money.

What I'm dreaming about is the following:
Let's say in a couple of years from now one or more networks finally figure out that broadcasting a (film) movie in 1080i or 720P takes approximately the same bandwidth as broadcasting it in 1080p/24. Yes, 1080p/24 is one of the standard ATSC HDTV broadcast options. If this (presumably over-th-air) 1080p/24 broadcast is received by my Samsung HLRxx68 1080p set, will it be displayed in true 1080p without first down converting to some lower rez common denominator and then upconverting back to 1080p/60?

I've read in several places that the HDMI inputs on these models will probably not accept 1080P signals. Does this also apply to 1080P/24? More importantly, will the set be able to display 1080p/24 that is received by the internal ATSC HDTV tuner?

These questions may not be too important at this moment since all current HDTV cable, satellite and over the air broadcasts are in either 720p/60 or 1080i. But broadcasting film sources in true 1080p at 24 FPS is largely just a matter of the networks choosing to do so. It could happen!

Information we have says input will be limited to 1080i/720p. Actually production is the next point to check.

What about the internal tuner? No input required (other than an antenna).

Originally posted by dkaleita
What about the internal tuner? No input required (other than an antenna).

I highly doubt it, but I'll let the EE guys comment.

Originally posted by dkaleita
What about the internal tuner? No input required (other than an antenna).

Your question is one of our open issues. We have not received any information on this issue so far. The other open issues are listed below.

What we DON’T KNOW so far:

1. What are the DEPTH measurements, dimensions, and weight on the new series 68/78 models by model number? Even a couple of reference points would allow us to see the trend.

2. What is the contrast ratio spec’s for the HLR5087W 720p pedestal model? If they had one on display, did anyone notice if the pixel pattern was HD2+ or newer HD4 pattern?

3. What computer resolutions are supported on the 68, 78, and 88 series sets (1920x1080?)? How would this work through the HDMI connection (via DVI - HDMI cable?) Specifically, does it support 1920x1080. Since we have confirmed that the 68, 78, and 88 will have VGA/PC input, what resolutions will be supported via this input?

4. Will 1080p be supported on the component video inputs on the 1080p units?

5. Will the internal ATSC tuner or CableCard tuner support the future 1080p broadcast format on the 1080p units?

Can we add the firewire interface to question 5?

Originally posted by fcsmith
Can we add the firewire interface to question 5?

Just to make sure I understand the question that you want to ask, is this it?

Can the 1394 interface on the 1080p models support a 1080p signal (realizing that their are NO 1394 1080p equipment currently on the market)?

...realizing that their are NO 1394 1080p equipment currently on the market
Not sure I understand - why would there need to be different 1394 equipment? 1394 just carries a bitstream, doesn't it?

The earlier question was "...will the set be able to display 1080p/24 that is received by the internal ATSC HDTV tuner?" My question is, "will the set be able to display 1080p/24 that is received over firewire?" If broadcasters were to start using the existing 1080p/24 standard, wouldn't cable boxes and other firewire-equipped STB's output 1080p/24 over firewire?

DATAVISION site shows it has HLR-4667W in stock for immediate shipment - $2050.
Most listed specs seem as anticipated - Except 3 HD chip - which if true is a big backward move by Samsung. (since I'm new member I can't post link)
Salesman says they have it and that decsriptive photo (definately not HLR)is "generic". Fact or Folly?

Originally posted by smokejoe
DATAVISION site shows it has HLR-4667W in stock for immediate shipment - $2050.
Most listed specs seem as anticipated - Except 3 HD chip - which if true is a big backward move by Samsung. (since I'm new member I can't post link)
Salesman says they have it and that decsriptive photo (definately not HLR)is "generic". Fact or Folly?
If you believe that Samsung would ship to an Internet dealer before they ship to their big chain authorized dealers, and that no Internet dealer would pretend to have a hot new item in stock to get the use of your money for a while, then I'm sure it's pure "Fact". :D

I'll take another shot at the 1394 question:

6. What capabilities does the 1394 port have to support 1080p? Specifically, if the internal tuner can support broadcast 1080p/24, can this be output via the 1394 port? Could a 1080p signal be input via the 1394 port?

I will add this question to our open issues ... if it is now in the right format.

Originally posted by smokejoe
DATAVISION site shows it has HLR-4667W in stock for immediate shipment - $2050.

I have been following Samsung DLP for a couple of years. I have never seen Samsung ship a product that was not added to their web site first. They will usually add the product to their web site about when inventory is expected in their distribution warehouse. When a product shows up on their web site it is a good bet that it will be available in some retail channel soon. Since the HLR units have not made it the Samsung web site, I would suspect that the Datavision web site is promoting product which is ON ORDER with Samsung, but not in their possession.

I do think that the Datavision listing indicates that the HLRxx67W's are getting close because it has highly discounted pricing, which would lead me to believe that they have a specific order with Samsung at specific pricing.

Originally posted by UCSB
6. What capabilities does the 1394 port have to support 1080p? Specifically, if the internal tuner can support broadcast 1080p/24, can this be output via the 1394 port? Could a 1080p signal be input via the 1394 port?

Question 6 has been added to our open issues.

Datavision is showing other HLRxx67W screen sizes as IN STOCK, but there is a message on the bottom of the screen that says AVAILABLE IN APRIL.

Here is a question for everyone ... Datavision has dimension data for the HLRxx67W units on their web site. Should we trust it and update the spec's in POST #1?

Since Datavision doesn't the correct image of the HLR-4667W, I wouldn't trust anything else just yet.

Dick W.

Specs are actually HLP 4667 though DataV is still listing it as the HLR-
"an 'inadvertant' marketing error" I'm sure they'd say after you opened
the box. They good news is the HLRs are not pre-determined to have a nearly obsolete TI chip, so we can still hope for x3, 4 - -or even a 3 chip-set if you
like to dream big.

Originally posted by smokejoe
They good news is the HLRs are not pre-determined to have a nearly obsolete TI chip, so we can still hope for x3, 4 - -or even a 3 chip-set if you
like to dream big.
Your idea of what is "nearly obsolete" may be unrealistic.

Originally posted by smokejoe
Specs are actually HLP 4667 though DataV is still listing it as the HLR-
"an 'inadvertant' marketing error" I'm sure they'd say after you opened
the box. They good news is the HLRs are not pre-determined to have a nearly obsolete TI chip, so we can still hope for x3, 4 - -or even a 3 chip-set if you
like to dream big.

I'm not sure what you mean here. The HLRXX67 sets are 720p sets--my understanding is that they are HD3 sets. While I prefer the HD2+ sets, obsolete is not a term I would use to describe the HD3. The 1080p models are a different line (or lines) entirely. A new 3-chip RPTV from Samsung or anyone else is out of the question for this summer.

There's a lot of good information in the first post of this thread. UCSB worked hard on it.

One would think there is enough room in this thread for a range of interpretations of the word obsolete. It seems to me that "smokejoe" was suggesting, perhaps in exaggerated terms, that if the HLR line has the same chip as the HLP line he might be somewhat disappointed. According to UCSB's date in the first post the new 720p sets, given the best avaliable date, will be using an HD4 chip.

"A new 3-chip RPTV from Samsung or anyone else is out of the question for this summer. "

I think it is clear from the gentleman's post that he was making a joke regarding the far off future of such a 3 chip RPTV as demonstrated by the "if you like to dream big"


cheers, John

sorry htwaits i did not mean to refer to you and i corrected it accordingly. Silly me!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jon_W
One would think there is enough room in this thread for a range of interpretations of the word obsolete. It seems to me that "htwaits" was suggesting, perhaps in exaggerated terms, that if the HLR line has the same chip as the HLP line he might be somewhat disappointed. According to UCSB's date in the first post the new 720p sets, given the best avaliable date, will be using an HD4 chip.

That's fine. The information I'm giving you is from my two eyes backed up by my trusty digital camera. Whether it is an HD3 or an HD4 is based on not what Samsung had on display at CES, as Samsung did not post which chips were used (per TI's request). It is based on sets from Optoma and Sharp with the same contrast ratio and features which were listed as HD4 chip models. Even if it is an HD4 chip, it is a diamond-aligned wobulation chip like the HD3 with updated performance. The 720p sets performed well, even though they were overshadowed by the performance of the 1080p models. The Sharp HD3 and HD4 models looked fantastic and I hope they're not overlooked--hence my objection to the word "obsolete." These chips (unfairly maligned here, IMO) perform well. Are they the best? No--but they're still very good.

Originally posted by Jon_W
sorry htwaits i did not mean to refer to you and i corrected it accordingly. Silly me!
It's OK.

I admit to being confused, but didn't let that stop me from replying anyway. :rolleyes:

Now I've deleted my reply too. :)

As for the relative value of HD3/HD4 chips I agree with TetsujinWave. :cool:

HL-RXX67 Users Manual

Was on the FCC website and found their approval for the HLRXX67 models. Included is the HLRXX67 Users Manual (https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=522134&native_or_pdf=pdf). A brief perusal didn't find anything unexpected.

UCSB, for some reason the manual does not include the "specification" section that should be at the end of the manual and have the dimensions etc, so nothing to update post 1 with.

I do not see any VGA input and there appears to be 2 S-video, and 3 composite as opposed to 1 and 2 respectively. Maybe the DVI is there instead of the VGA

Page 29 of the manual PDF shows #12 PC Video input, #13 HDMI, #14 2 1394 and yes it looks like #3 2 S-video. Haven't spent enough time to figure everything out.

Yes you are right, I misunderstood the way they state the HDMI and DVI are the same input. But is #14 not firewire as opposed to USB?

How about some pictures of the insides of the HLRxx67 set? See the attached PDF.

UCSB has indicated in post 1 that this set would have a HD4 chip in it. The sixth picture show the actual DLP chip that is in the set. Anyone recognize it :D It appears to be a 16:9 1280x720 chip. Other than that I have no idea.

Jon_W, your absolutely right. Too many things to keep straight in my confused brain :) (changed USB to 1394)

Thanks for finding the manual! I'll add a link to it from POST #1. I guess we should also see the other screen sizes appearing soon.

I'll also link to the back photo; it could be useful for someone planning their installation.

I've added the links to the photos and the preliminary manual to POST #1. Has anyone found anything in the manual that conflicts with the current information in POST #1? Anything that needs to be added to POST #1?

Here are our current open issues, if anyone comes across an answer to one of these questions please post. Most of these open questions relate to 1080p performance and so the answers will probably not be in the 720p manual.

What we DON’T KNOW so far:

1. What are the DEPTH measurements, dimensions, and weight on the new series 68/78 models by model number? Even a couple of reference points would allow us to see the trend.

2. What is the contrast ratio spec’s for the HLR5087W 720p pedestal model? If they had one on display, did anyone notice if the pixel pattern was HD2+ or newer HD4 pattern?

3. What computer resolutions are supported on the 68, 78, and 88 series sets (1920x1080?)? How would this work through the HDMI connection (via DVI - HDMI cable?) Specifically, does it support 1920x1080. Since we have confirmed that the 68, 78, and 88 will have VGA/PC input, what resolutions will be supported via this input?

4. Will 1080p be supported on the component video inputs on the 1080p units?

5. Will the internal ATSC tuner or CableCard tuner support the future 1080p broadcast format on the 1080p units?

6. What capabilities does the 1394 port have to support 1080p? Specifically, if the internal tuner can support broadcast 1080p/24, can this be output via the 1394 port? Could a 1080p signal be input via the 1394 port?

A bit more information from the FCC reports on the HLRxx67 sets:

Port Description

1 Power
2 Ant in (air)
3 Ant in (cable) 1
4 Composite 1 in
5 Composite 2 in
6 Composite 3 in
7 S-video 1 in
8 S-video 2 in
9 S-video 3 in
10 Component 1 in
11 Component 2 in
12 PC audio in
13 DVI audio in (edit: this is the HDMI port, there is no separate DVI port)
14 PC video in
15 Composite out
16 HDMI

Also is a pdf (attached) with a picture of front and back from the FCC site.

USCB, the manual is for the 46", 50", 56" and 61" sets.

Originally posted by schaffer970
USCB, the manual is for the 46", 50", 56" and 61" sets.

OK, thanks. I'll adjust POST #1.

Just a quick note, the set that was used for testing appears to be a HLR5067 - for anyone trying to gin dimensions etc. from the pictures.

Samsung's CeBIT flash information applet is up and running on the Samsung site. I don't see anything about DLP sets. Only the new 82" LCD set. Maybe something latter on DLP but it doesn't look like it.

In post#1, the MSRP for HLR5668w is $4,199, but cnet lists it as $5,199. Cnet also states the MSRPs for LG models and says that one of the model's MSRP wasn't released yet implying that all the listed MSRP is from the manufacturer. Which MSRP is correct?

I decided to wait until June to buy my DLP, but if it's $5,199 for the 56" model I rather just buy the current 720p model for much less. Even if retailers sell the new model below MSRP, it'll still be $2K difference between the models, street price wise.

Any thoughts?

Originally posted by jhlee_99
In post#1, the MSRP for HLR5668w is $4,199, but cnet lists it as $5,199. Cnet also states the MSRPs for LG models and says that one of the model's MSRP wasn't released yet implying that all the listed MSRP is from the manufacturer. Which MSRP is correct?

I decided to wait until June to buy my DLP, but if it's $5,199 for the 56" model I rather just buy the current 720p model for much less. Even if retailers sell the new model below MSRP, it'll still be $2K difference between the models, street price wise.

Any thoughts?

At the top of POST #1 is a link to Samsung's CES coverage. If you go there and read the DLP announcement it will have the official released prices. They will match what is POST #1, except for the HLR 6768W which was in error in the official Samsung press release. Unfortunately, C/Net has made a number of errors in its coverage.

Thanks clarification UCSB. I guess I will be waiting some more.

I've increased the number of s-video and composite inputs on the 67 series in POST #1 to 3 based on Schaffer970's summary from the manual above.

Also, updated the links and descriptions that refer to the pictures and manual that Schaffer970 discovered.

In the Samsung CeBIT flash applet that they have up on their site, there is a press release (the first one) which contains the following:

At CeBIT this year, visitors will be able to see and experience an extensive portfolio of home, office, mobile and component technology from Samsung. Highlights include:

* 102-inch PDP TV, 82-inch LCD television and 71-inch DLP television - The world's largest PDP, LCD and DLP TVs delivering to consumers the perfectly smooth theater quality experience.

You will note the 71-inch DLP.

So far, I haven't found anything more.

Samsung CeBIT Update

Samsung Unveils World's Largest Plasma TV and DLP TV

The Samsung 71" DLP TV is the world's largest consumer DLP television at 71" offering consumers a system that couples stylish, compelling design with best-of-class performance. Its High Definition picture quality of 1920 x 1080 resolution and high contrast ratio (10,000:1) produce a stunning film-like picture in the home. This DLP TV also converts all inputs to 1920 x 1080 progressive display which is full HD resolution and Samsung's latest DNIeTM video enhancer offers utmost picture quality.

The slim bezel and sleek depth of the 71" DLP TV creates a stunning slender television which has the perfect balance of style and performance. It has a WUXGA PC input which allows to be used as a big screen monitor and HDMI which provides seamless digital interface.

71" DLP TV Specifications

Basic World's largest DLP TV
Resolution 1920 x1280 Progressive Scan
Brightness 500 cd/m2
Contrast Ratio 10,000 :1
Technology DNIeTM (Digital Natural Image Engine)
Sound Dolby Digital & SRS TruSurround XT
Interface Complete Digital Interface HDMI Input
Design Premium Design with Narrow Bezel

* Specifications are Subject to Change Without Notice

Interesting statement about WUXGA PC input. They must feel that if this is a wobulated set that it's still good enough for use as a monitor.

Originally posted by schaffer970
Samsung CeBIT Update

Samsung Unveils World's Largest Plasma TV and DLP TV

The Samsung 71" DLP TV is the world's largest consumer DLP television at 71" .....

Wow, this is really getting exciting! No preliminary MSRP's, I presume.

What you see is what you get. No dates, no price. :D

Originally posted by schaffer970
Interesting statement about WUXGA PC input. They must feel that if this is a wobulated set that it's still good enough for use as a monitor.
Mine (HLP5063) is in Expand mode via DVI. :cool:

Did you mean "Expand", htwaits?

Regs,
Jeff

After updating the 67 Series s-video and composite spec's, I wonder if I should bring the 68 / 78 / 88 / 87 in line (ie, increase s-video to 3 and composite to 3)? I don't think in the original spec's we took into consideration the side AV inputs. Any ideas?

Originally posted by Iceblade
Did you mean "Expand", htwaits?

Regs,
Jeff
Yes. :rolleyes:

My mind is off somewhere on it's own. :)

LOL

No worries... just wanted to make sure that I hadn't missed another mode on these sets.

Maybe we can start time sharing that mind of yours, as I appear to have completely lost mine. :)

Have a good weekend,
Jeff

UCSB, I agree that we didn't think about the side inputs. 1 S-video and 1 composite with audio.

OK, I give up. Anyone hear of a HLRxx64 series?

The manual for the HLR4664, 5064, 5664 and 6164 just went up on the FCC site. Here is the link to the manual HLRxx64 Series (https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=522832&native_or_pdf=pdf)

Haven't had time to figure out what these are yet.

UCSB, there are measurements at the end of this manual.

Quick review of the manual, shows no TV Guide or 1394 connection. Maybe these are a less expensive version of the 67s????

Originally posted by AkaStp
Of course, I may be wrong. :D
:) It might be the next version of the HLPxx63 for distribution in countries that don't "require" HDTV tuners in sets with screens that size.

I thought about the "other" countries thing, but the set was registered with the FCC for sale in the USA so I am sure it will be sold here. I think AkaStp is correct.

Originally posted by schaffer970
UCSB, there are measurements at the end of this manual.

I'm a little reluctant to pick up the specs until we really understand where the 64 series fits into the big picture.

I've never heard of a 64 series, perhaps they will be sold in Canada.

is it June yet? :mad:

Just wanted to make sure that everyone understood where I am getting the FCC information. The FCC is the United States Federal Communications Commission (your federal tax dollars hard at work). Any device (cell phones, TVs, computers etc.) that emits electromagnetic radiation (radio waves etc.) must be tested and certified that anything they radiate is within limits set by the FCC.

The wonderful thing about this is that manufactures must submit all kinds of data to the FCC as part of that certification process. Typically the information goes up on the FCC website just before a product is ready to hit the market. Thus we have begun to see the new Samsung products.

Finally, as I understand it, products can be slightly modified and still be certified. At this point there are several Samsung DLP sets on the FCC website. I have spent considerable time looking at the pictures available and the light engine shown in the pictures for several models is the exact same picture. I believe that this is so competitors don't know exactly what is going into the sets as this could be modified without significant change to the electromagnetic radiation emitted (manufactures have to keep paperwork on all of this).

Any information about when these 1080p dlps will be released in Canada?We love our 10000.1 contrast ratio and 1920x1080 progressive display up here as well;)

Originally posted by sbro
Any information about when these 1080p dlps will be released in Canada?We love our 10000.1 contrast ratio and 1920x1080 progressive display up here as well;)

I had been wondering this also, however a previous poster had a link to the manual for the back view of the upcoming HLR5067W.

The model identification label clearly shows Samsung Canada listed above Samsung USA, so chances look very good we'll see this model up here.

I've been waiting for this for a while now since Canada was by-passed and never got the HLPxx74 series.

I'm getting excited now :D

Lexx

Originally posted by lexx
I had been wondering this also, however a previous poster had a link to the manual for the back view of the upcoming HLR5067W.

The model identification label clearly shows Samsung Canada listed above Samsung USA, so chances look very good we'll see this model up here.

I've been waiting for this for a while now since Canada was by-passed and never got the HLPxx74 series.

I'm getting excited now :D

Lexx

Myself as well, can't wait to check out the new models,now if we could just get N.H.L hockey back life would be good. (1920X1080,N.H.L. Hockey and Canadian beer, it doesn't get any better.):D

Didn't an earlier post indicate that the 10000:1 contrast ratio is really 5000:1 based on the way this is usually measured in the US?

I too am a little leery of the 10,000:1 contrast ratio. Part of my questioning of this number is based on the CRs of previous models. Is it likely that the CR for the 68 series would honestly be that much higher than the previous HLP models? If so, does the higher CR result in truly drastically sharper, crisper picture?

At the 2004 CES, Samsung announced a contrast ratio of either 5000:1 or 3000:1 for the HLPxx85W models (I'd have to check). When they were finally delivered, the CR was 2500:1. But, the improvement over existing Samsung DLP's was immediately apparent.

The best thing to do is wait and see the specs on the released product. I am expecting a visible improvement. Light engine design, especially the new variable aperture (256 steps of letting light through) dynamic black portion could make an incredible difference.

The TI demo claimed a CR of over 6000:1. This is probably a more accurate number. Everyone was impressed when they ran the Episode III trailer on it.

I see the release date of these keeps getting changed to farther and farther away, which sucks. I'm moving in two weeks and need a new display for my living room, i'm either getting a DLP RPTV or Plasma, but most likely a DLP. I'd really like these to be one of my options but somehow I have a feeling that "June" is going to end up being July or August until I can actually get my hands on one at a store. Even if the release date is sometime mid to the end of June that means i'll have to go 2-3 months with no TV... I dont think I can do that. But on the other side of things, I dont want to spend 2-3 grand on a TV then have something way better come out a couple months later for around the same price.... ugh, this sucks. Why couldnt they have come out in April like it originally stated... i was pumped about that.

mastahkaz,

have patience! I've been without an hdtv since 10/04 (after loving the set I had for 2 1/2 years!)...am waiting, patiently, for the new Samsung's...(he said, while going nuts!)...

Originally posted by mastahkaz
I see the release date of these keeps getting changed to farther and farther away, which sucks. I'm moving in two weeks and need a new display for my living room, i'm either getting a DLP RPTV or Plasma, but most likely a DLP. I'd really like these to be one of my options but somehow I have a feeling that "June" is going to end up being July or August until I can actually get my hands on one at a store. Even if the release date is sometime mid to the end of June that means i'll have to go 2-3 months with no TV... I dont think I can do that. But on the other side of things, I dont want to spend 2-3 grand on a TV then have something way better come out a couple months later for around the same price.... ugh, this sucks. Why couldnt they have come out in April like it originally stated... i was pumped about that.

If you are going to be spending 2-3 thousand, don't wait for the 68/78 series ... they are going to be significantly above that range. You should shoot for the 67 series expected in about mid-May.

Well, according to the first page it says the 50" will MSRP for $3,899, so i'm guessing the street price will be less. While being more than the 3k I wanted to spend, might still be worth it to spend the few hundered extra bucks... only time will tell.

I have my eyes on the 67 series too. I wouldnt mind getting a 720p display over a 1080p if it looked great along with great features and a great price. My only concern is the HD4 chip that it's going to use. The contrast ratio on the main page of this thread is only listed at 2000:1, which is still less than the HD2+ sets . Also the HD3 chips currently do not produce as nice an image as the HD2+, will the HD4 be the same way? If so i'd rather get an HD2+ set now (probably the Panny). Before they become too hard to find.

One of the big turn ons for the 1080p sets is not only the resolution (because I can easily deal with 720p res) but the reported 5000:1 to 10,000:1 contrast ratio.

mastakhaz,

I am pretty much in the same boat as you. The 1080p is a nice draw for me, but at 50" it might not matter all that much, so I'm just not sure. Also, the 50" 78 series will likely not sell much below retail price, since it will only be sold at higher-end stores (tweeter instead of best buy, e.g.). As a result, it's likely that the 68 series 56" could be the same price or lower than the 78 series 50" when it hits the street. Of course, those prices are a little on the high end for me already, and even though some said that the improved contrast ratios made a noticeable difference, I'm wondering if it's a >$1000 difference. Also, the 50" 78 series TV is a bit of a turnoff since the screen has so much glare.

The end result is that you (if you're anything like me) will be waiting to see what happens when the models actually come out, or at least until you can see them in person, which is what really matters. I'm kind of thinking (hoping) that I won't be able to tell as much of a difference between the 720p models next to the 1080p models in terms of contrast ratio, but I guess we'll see.

On a related note, can I assume that Samsung will be showing some of these DLP sets at the Home Entertainment Expo in New York at the end of April? I really want to see some of these sets in person so that I can quench my thirst a little before the big purchase. I work about two blocks from the expo, so I might be able to duck out for a little while and check out whatever gear they have.

Originally posted by Clorox
Also, the 50" 78 series TV is a bit of a turnoff since the screen has so much glare.
I didn't know that the hlrxx78 series had a different screen than all the other Samsung DLP sets that they have produced. I have heard about the "piano black" bezel that is highly reflective.

From the amazing first message in this thread:

UPDATE - AS OF: 2/22/2005 - Samsung is still evaluating the 78 Series product line by seeking input from their dealer network. The 50" (HLR5078W) and 70" (HLR7078W) are more likely to be produced than at CES. But, Samsung is considering going with the Series 68 line ALONE ... YES, let me repeat, they are considering not producing the 78 Series product line. If this happens, they would add a 50" and possibly a 70" to the 68 Series product line.

... and

TABLETOP MODEL >>> HLRxx78W --- 78 Series --- Black Lacquer Screen Design ...

Black Lacquer Screen Design, Anti-glare Matte Screen Finish.

Hey all --

We have a TVA rep meeting with Samsung today. (he's making the rounds as we sent him to JVC yesterday). With any luck we'll have more details on everything being discussed here, and I'll post any new info received here tonight.

Originally posted by neiltvauthority
Hey all --

We have a TVA rep meeting with Samsung today. (he's making the rounds as we sent him to JVC yesterday). With any luck we'll have more details on everything being discussed here, and I'll post any new info received here tonight.

Thanks Neil, that would be great!!!

I was about to pull the trigger on buying the HL-P5063W model and am now wondering if I should wait on the 5067W model. CC has the 5063W for $2239 which is down considerably from just a few months ago. The start of this thread suggests the MSRP for the 5067W will be $2,999...

Questions:

1) Is the difference in contrast ratio (1,500 to 1 vs. 2,000 to 1) noticeable to the average viewer?

2) What's a layman's explanation of the difference in chips that the 63 series uses and the 67 series will have?

3) Are there any other differences (other than the floating screen design) that should be taken into consideration?

With all of the above in mind, is it worth the wait and higher cost to get the 67 series???

Thoughts and advise will be greatly appreciated!!!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JDBull
Questions:

1) Is the difference in contrast ratio (1,500 to 1 vs. 2,000 to 1) noticeable to the average viewer?

>> You can check out the difference for yourself, the HLPxx74W models have a 2000:1 and the HLPxx63W models have a 1500:1 contrast ratio. Many people that have done this comparison and report a small difference. Some people can't see a difference. The units would have to be right next to each other to see the difference.

2) What's a layman's explanation of the difference in chips that the 63 series uses and the 67 series will have?

>> We don't know as much about the chips as we would like, at this point in time, we believe that their is an update to the HD3 chip in the HLPxx63W in the HLRx67W. We believe it is called an HD4. But, keep in mind the light engine, firmware, screen, and other components can make a positive or negative impact also.

3) Are there any other differences (other than the floating screen design) that should be taken into consideration?

>> Plus for HLPxx63W - Both DVI and HDMI digital input (vs just one HDMI).
>> Plus for HLRxx67W - Both ATSC over the air digital/HD tuner and CableCard tuners.

With all of the above in mind, is it worth the wait and higher cost to get the 67 series???

>> Cost is a personal area that only you can evaluate. But, the new 67 series units will be discounted so the difference is going to less, maybe $300 - $400. If cost is really important, keep in mind that there will probably be some good discounting on the 63 series as it is closed out in April and May.

Thoughts and advise will be greatly appreciated!!!

>> The new units will probably be slightly better and will cost a little more than the discounted current models. I'm not expecting the new units to obsolete 63 series and if they were side by side you would probably have to look closely to see the differences. When I am doing these kinds of evaluations in the store myself I usually find that the new model will look better on some material and about the same on some material. In some cases the old model will even look better on some small amount of the material, say 20%.

Neil, really looking forward to that update!

Thanks

Originally posted by htwaits
I didn't know that the hlrxx78 series had a different screen than all the other Samsung DLP sets that they have produced. I have heard about the "piano black" bezel that is highly reflective.

From the amazing first message in this thread:

UPDATE - AS OF: 2/22/2005 - Samsung is still evaluating the 78 Series product line by seeking input from their dealer network. The 50" (HLR5078W) and 70" (HLR7078W) are more likely to be produced than at CES. But, Samsung is considering going with the Series 68 line ALONE ... YES, let me repeat, they are considering not producing the 78 Series product line. If this happens, they would add a 50" and possibly a 70" to the 68 Series product line.

... and

TABLETOP MODEL >>> HLRxx78W --- 78 Series --- Black Lacquer Screen Design ...

Black Lacquer Screen Design, Anti-glare Matte Screen Finish.

htwaits, thanks for the heads up. And also, I must admit, you have now made my decisions both more difficult and less difficult at the same time.

To me, the 78 series initially looked like it had a glossy screen protector covering the display that was integrated into the bezel (in other words, a full front panel the way some other RPTVs are). Thus, I made the false assumption that it was reflective.

I also missed the post that mentioned the 78 series may be scrapped and the 50" and 70" models transferred to the 68 series (Though I did read it in Post#1 after you mentioned it). If so, I hope that big brand stores like best buy get the 50", so I can expect at least a little discount off the $3,899 MSRP.

I certainly hope TV Authority will sell the 50" if it does come out in the 68 series, because I'd definitely want to be first on their list (I noticed that they don't have any of the 78 series up on their site right now).

UCSB - thanks for the reply. Not an easy decision, but your input is helpfull.

Originally posted by Clorox
If so, I hope that big brand stores like best buy get the 50", so I can expect at least a little discount off the $3,899 MSRP.
You're welcome. :)

In our area Magnolia is the high end Samsung dealer. They have always discounted Samsung DLP sets from MSRP and will still negotiate from there. GoodGuys is somewhere between Magnolia and CC\BB with sticker prices that are a little higher than Magnolia. I've never bought anything from GG's but I expect they will discount too.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by htwaits
[B]

UPDATE - AS OF: 2/22/2005 - Samsung is still evaluating the 78 Series product line by seeking input from their dealer network. The 50" (HLR5078W) and 70" (HLR7078W) are more likely to be produced than at CES. But, Samsung is considering going with the Series 68 line ALONE ... YES, let me repeat, they are considering not producing the 78 Series product line. If this happens, they would add a 50" and possibly a 70" to the 68 Series product line.

Thanks for the reminder. I sincerely hope this possibility--namely that the 70" unit appears in a xx68 format--materializes. This would be my ideal combination, the maximum size in the neatest framework.

Originally posted by millerwill
[QUOTE]Originally posted by htwaits
[B]

UPDATE - AS OF: 2/22/2005 - Samsung is still evaluating the 78 Series product line by seeking input from their dealer network. The 50" (HLR5078W) and 70" (HLR7078W) are more likely to be produced than at CES. But, Samsung is considering going with the Series 68 line ALONE ... YES, let me repeat, they are considering not producing the 78 Series product line. If this happens, they would add a 50" and possibly a 70" to the 68 Series product line.

Thanks for the reminder. I sincerely hope this possibility--namely that the 70" unit appears in a xx68 format--materializes. This would be my ideal combination, the maximum size in the neatest framework.

I second that emotion, but for the 50-incher -- I prefer the 68-series packaging, the price will be even lower (the lowest of the 68-series!), and 56" is too big for my livingroom! Not that I wouldn't buy a 1080p, 10000:1 CR, 56-incher if that's the smallest size I could get!

By the way... what happened to Neil?!

Neil?

(crickets)

Has Neil said anything about having a AVS Powerbuy on the 2005 Samsungs...I noticed in another thread he is putting together a Powerbuy on the 2005 Jvc's.

We do not have any updates at this exact time on the powerbuys. Stand by for more details....TBA within the next few weeks...

cambryn
cambryn@tvauthority.com
www.tvauthority.com
1.888.286.5353 ext.520

cammy, thanks for the information. As always any information you can pass along is always welcome. One of the big items that everyone would like to have is the dimensions of the new sets so that we can plan accordingly.

Anyone have any further details or confirmation that Samsung will release this TV and size?

Originally posted by landrigh
Anyone have any further details or confirmation that Samsung will release this TV and size?
Not yet. It's also possible that there will not be a 78 series. Read the first message in this thread for the latest status information. :)

Originally posted by AkaStp
HL-R4677 and HL-R5677 appearing on Samsung web site right now.

As expected it's specs look like the HLPxx74 with HDTV Tuner and CableCard added, but without DVI and VGA inputs.

funny, since the first post says this regarding the 74 series:

"We will transition this series to a new design mid year that will include the integrated design. So, no 77 series will come.. it'll be called something a little different but it will be a "70" series."

Unless they mean no 77 series will come in the HLP line, then i suppose its true.