I dont see why they put so many analog inputs and so few digital inputs on these big expensive (in terms of the average joe) DIGITAL tv sets. I mean anyone spending more than 2 grand on a TV obviousally probably has other mid to high end equipment. The only thing i'd want to use the component inputs for is video game systems, but im guessing all the next gen systems coming out between the end of this year and next will have digital outputs. And i cant remember the last time i actually used a composite or svideo input? Maybe back when I used to use my VCR? Give me 1 component, 1 15-pin, and 4 HDMI and then i'll be happy.

Its the same thing with AV Receivers. They all still have tons of composite inputs, a couple components and zero to one digital inputs. Unless you spend a few thousand... then you MIGHT get an extra component (for a total of 3) and an HDMI. :rolleyes:

^is there any video signal problems or loss of picture quality when using a HDMI > DVI converter?

Originally posted by mastahkaz
I dont see why they put so many analog inputs and so few digital inputs on these big expensive (in terms of the average joe) DIGITAL tv sets. I mean anyone spending more than 2 grand on a TV obviousally probably has other mid to high end equipment. The only thing i'd want to use the component inputs for is video game systems, but im guessing all the next gen systems coming out between the end of this year and next will have digital outputs. And i cant remember the last time i actually used a composite or svideo input? Maybe back when I used to use my VCR? Give me 1 component, 1 15-pin, and 4 HDMI and then i'll be happy.

Its the same thing with AV Receivers. They all still have tons of composite inputs, a couple components and zero to one digital inputs. Unless you spend a few thousand... then you MIGHT get an extra component (for a total of 3) and an HDMI. :rolleyes:

great post masta, I feel your pain. I totally agree and I feel like theres nothing I can do with AVR.

I now am thinking that I can get a DLP tv but I will have to use that for switching video inputs and the receiver to switch audio inputs

subwoofer, you might want to do some looking around before you ask things. Here is a quote from the RAM web site, one of AVS Forum Alliance Members (at the top of the page):

Will I loose any quality by converting from HDMI to DVI?

Absolutely not. The DVI specification is set to allow a higher bandwidth to support computer and high definition (HD) resolutions. The HDMI specification is set to support only HD resolutions (i.e. 480i, 480p, 720i, 720p,1080i). You will not loose quality by changing to a different cable.

Originally posted by subwoofer
^is there any video signal problems or loss of picture quality when using a HDMI > DVI converter?
Not from the wire or connectors. As always, digital video either gets through the wire or it doesn't. If the noise level in the wire overcomes the 1's and 0's you will get sparkles or total loss of the picture. In that case it's clear that you have a cable/enviornment problem.

A converter is a short cable attached to the end of either a DVI or HDMI cable. I was suggesting a cable built to connect directly from a HDMI connection to a DVI connection.I think it's a cleaner way to do it. That's how I've connected my STB (DVI) to the HDMI port on the HLP5063.

Some folks have added a converter cable to the end of their DVI cable to avoid buying a new cable. That seems to work too if the extra weight doesn't become a problem.

originally posted by UCSB:

I would like to follow-up on your comments and possibly create a separate area for the HLR4266W in POST #1. Where are you getting your information?

look at the tvauthority powerbuy for that tv...thats where I got my info.

Originally posted by Hellraiser
look at the tvauthority powerbuy for that tv...thats where I got my info.

OK ... I checked the Powerbuy links. You had brought up two issues in your earlier post: 1) photo having HLPxx63W styling; 2) 1500:1 contrast ratio.

I checked the manual for the HLR4266W (see link in 67 series section of POST #1) and the drawings of the HLR4266W appear to be of the new HLRxx67W cabinet. The picture on the TVAuthority web sit is definitely of a HLPxx63W style unit, so I must assume that they have the wrong picture associated with the unit in the Powerbuy.

In the past TVAuthority has made the 1500:1 error on the contrast ratio when copying text from a prior HLPxx63W model. Since TVAuthority is our only source of information on the HLR4266W (at the moment), I can not say if the 1500:1 is in error. I think the best approach for the moment is not to draw any conclusion ... hopefully, TVAuthority will read this message and double check both the picture and the contrast ratio on the HLR4266W and let us know if they are in error.

TVAuthority?

So, Where's the 6768 in all of this current powerbuy?

It won "Next Best Thing and Best of Show at CES" shouldn't it be Next? One can Hope anyways!

How long do we wait for this baby? Powerbuy?

Tough decision between new JVC 70" and this Sammy. Can't wait to hear the feedback from power buyers taking delivery in the weeks ahead to decide since I have until Mid May to decide.

Originally posted by westa6969
Tough decision between new JVC 70" and this Sammy. Can't wait to hear the feedback from power buyers taking delivery in the weeks ahead to decide since I have until Mid May to decide.

If you have until mid May to decide, then you have a problem because the new 68 and 78 series is not expected out until June / July.

if the prices of the HLR**67W series are this low and they are coming out in mid april,

how long can any of the prices of the '04 samsung class going to be dropping???
With a purchase this big i don't want to buy the first one off the line, but waiting is killing me. I am very curious about the lip sync issues in the new line of samsings!
I just bought a NAD 753 and JM Lab Cobalt speakers waiting for a tv to complete the theater! GO BADGERS!!!!!

I have removed the tentative comments that were associated with the HLR5078W and HLR7078W models in the 78 series section of POST #1. I made this update for the following reasons: 1) Samsung is including the HLRxx78W series in recent dealer communications; 2) Samsung has supplied unit dimensions and specifications to dealers; 3) Samsung has released UPC product numbers to dealers.

Please remember that these HDTVs are still in development and Samsung can change model specifications and even decide not to produce a specific screen size.

Since I'm a newbie to this forum, I would like someone to explain the process one must go through to get in on a power buy with TVAuthority.

I'm waiting on the HLR6178W. I have read the forum an know that this unit is a little ways off. I would like to get my ducks in a row so when the time comes for me to get my TV, I have done all the steps ahead of time.

Thanks for all your work on this.

TVA will post a link at the top of this forum as they have done for the current HLR models: Samsung HLR Series - AVS/TVAuthority PowerBuy.

And don't get the 720 HLR's mixed up with the 1080p HLR's as so many people seem to be doing of late....

Keep an eye on your model numbers people.

And yes, I'm still alive :)

- D

Originally posted by Daphoid


And yes, I'm still alive :)

- D

And to think I was just wondering where you were! I presumed that school was keeping you busy :D

Well Work (Co-Op) has been keeping me busy since the beginning of January... that comes to an end on April 22nd, then about 1-2 weeks later I start my final semester of classes (ugh, summer schooling)... Although I have managed to pickup a Studiotech PS-6 B/S stand, and a MX-850 Remote...

Waiting patiently on the HLR6768 though... Although I currently only have about $2000 saved (where od where did the rest of my income go? *tear*

- D

Originally posted by Daphoid
And yes, I'm still alive :) - D

D ... thanks for checking in ... good luck with that last semester of school. :cool: :)

I'll try! Hopefully I'll have a nice TV to keep me company....

I've just added some detailed spec's to the 77 series section in POST #1. If someone would like to check the spec's in POST #1 against the users manual to insure that I have not made any mistakes, it would be helpful. Any volunteers?

Bill,
Checked the HLR5677 manual and there's no mention of a TV Guide included there.

I've sent you a PM concerning another matter you may find interesting.
Slick

Not sure if this is totaly relavant but I had a Best Buy buddy pull up any HLR series and all of the HLRxx67 series came up and a few of the 77's.

I'm still waiting for the 78's though.

Originally posted by JONNY_P
I'm still waiting for the 78's though.
I don't expect BB to carry 78's.

Since others are chiming in on which one they are waiting for I thought I would too. My first HDTV and I am anxiously holding out for the 6168. Got my new amp, processor, and dvd player. Now I NEED my new tv, but I'm willing to wait to get what I want and will resist all temptation to settle for something now.

But geez, hurry up samsung :)

Originally posted by MikeAlletto
But geez, hurry up samsung :)
You have to wait until August 1st before it's appropriate to say something like that. ;)

I was wondering if anyone has a link to a good forum or direct advice/ warnings on setting up the following components to my Samsung HL-R6178W (some time in June/July of course):

Video - 1. HTPC with Graphics card w/ DVI out (ATI AIW x800xt).
Video - 2. HTPC MyHD-MD130 Tuner Card with DVI Daughter Card.
Also has HD (OTA) input.
HTPC Sound card from M-Audio 7.1 Revolution.
Video - 3. Motorola DCT 5100 w/ DVI out. (From Cable company)
Video - 4. Sony DVP-NS975V w/ HDMI out.
1- EXT-4X1HDTV Switchbox (HDCP Compatible).

Audio - Denon AVR 3805 Receiver.
6 - SpeakerCraft - CRS3 in ceiling speakers
1 - SpeakerCraft 12" Powered Sub.

Controled with Philips ProntoPro (TSU 7000).


Any input would be great. I've spent the last month getting up to spead on all of this and it's easy to miss details I know nothing about.

I have a question??? what is better for watching sports - the DLP or LCD?

Flat Panel LCD = expensive + slow response time

Rear Projection LCD = screen door so bad you feel you're looking through the TV

DLP = rainbows(If you see them) + so-so blacks

RP CRT = Cave man TV + have to be perfectly centered to watch it

Plasma + cost too much + screen door

Qualia = costs out the wazoo + so-so blacks

D'ILA = brightest + most saturated + no rainbows + no screen door + blacks that suck + minor chromatic abberation

And the winner is: RP CRT! LEAST BAD for the money: D'ILA! If you've got the bucks: P50 40 series Fujitsu Plasma! If you like to WASTE money: Qualia! If you must have a DLP: Sammy Kirk! If you must have RP LCD: Hitachi 50VX915! Still waiting to see: 1080p Samsung DLPs and 1080p LG DLP--LG has potential to be 1080p bests bargain!--61-inch JVC 1080p set will put pressure on the price of the Qualia and lastly SED has the potential to be best of all--Why? Not because of Toshiba, but because of Canon!

I was just over in the DVD player forum do get an idea of what player I may want to go with my future 6168 and it seems to me that a lot is dependant on the quality of the scaler in the 68 series. If it's a good quality scaler I'd probably just get a cheap plaer with a HDMI connection; if not, I'll have to fork out the extra on a good upscaling player.

Do we have any indications as to the quality of the scalers in the 1080p sammys?

dafinman

Get a cheap DVD w/progressive scan saving the extra money to put toward the new DVD HD players from Sony Blu-Ray or Toshiba HD last quarter this year to max out the DVD PQ on your new set.

Originally posted by schaffer970
subwoofer, you might want to do some looking around before you ask things. Here is a quote from the RAM web site, one of AVS Forum Alliance Members (at the top of the page):

Will I loose any quality by converting from HDMI to DVI?

Absolutely not. The DVI specification is set to allow a higher bandwidth to support computer and high definition (HD) resolutions. The HDMI specification is set to support only HD resolutions (i.e. 480i, 480p, 720i, 720p,1080i). You will not loose quality by changing to a different cable.

Thanks for the converter question. I figured this was already asked but for me to search thru 78 pages hoping that someone else asked it here is kind of ridiculous. Thanks for the tip schaffer but no thanks

Anyone else here frustrated that all of these new tvs will have HDMI ports but almost every AVR only has component out? You could get an HDMI AVR but it might cost as much as the TV. Or will everyone here be using the DLP tv for video switching but use their receiver for audio switching?

Im frustrated waiting and being from Canada.:mad:

Originally posted by westa6969
dafinman

Get a cheap DVD w/progressive scan saving the extra money to put toward the new DVD HD players from Sony Blu-Ray or Toshiba HD last quarter this year to max out the DVD PQ on your new set.

I just dawned on me that none of the up converting DVD player will go to 1080P anyway so there will still be a need to do ANOTHER de-interlacing.

It seems sensible to just give the TV the native 480i dvd feed digitally and let the TV's scaler do the rest.

Originally posted by dafinman
I just dawned on me that none of the up converting DVD player will go to 1080P anyway so there will still be a need to do ANOTHER de-interlacing.

It seems sensible to just give the TV the native 480i dvd feed digitally and let the TV's scaler do the rest.

...unless this creates a/v sync problems for people who don't have some sort of delay mechanism in their DVD player or receiver, the way it did for some people with previous Samsung sets. I guess we won't know for sure about this one until people start using it.

Well, the red gun went out in my 9 yr old 36" RCA VGA monitor. I watched the elite eight this weekend in blue and green.

So I need a TV now. The Sammy's seem to be the DLP winners, and since my primary source is a HTPC (I even run my Dish through dscaler), I am looking for the best PC hookup. The largest screen that will fit in my cut out is 56". So you would think my choice would be easy.

But with the HLR series, I am all confused. Now there is 1080p or 720p to worry about, but 1080p won't take a 1080p signal, WTF? 1080p would be cool for HD-DVD when that arrives, but I honestly think the web, and other PC tasks would be too small to see at that resolution. I have no idea how to determine that one either (except possibly bring my laptop into the store).

Then there is the chip question as well. When it was the HD2+ or the HD3 there wasn't a question. Now we have a 4, and x3 and an x4.

This is becoming a PITA.

Originally posted by dafinman
I was just over in the DVD player forum do get an idea of what player I may want to go with my future 6168 and it seems to me that a lot is dependant on the quality of the scaler in the 68 series. If it's a good quality scaler I'd probably just get a cheap plaer with a HDMI connection; if not, I'll have to fork out the extra on a good upscaling player.

Do we have any indications as to the quality of the scalers in the 1080p sammys?

The scalers should be good. But, why not consider one of the new, reasonably priced ($250 - $300) upshifting DVD players. Then you can simply set it to whatever looks best to you. After spending $4000 - $5000 on the HDTV, $250 for a DVD player sounds cheap. With HD DVD coming, I would not buy a $1,200 player, but $250 seems OK.

Originally posted by UCSB
The scalers should be good. But, why not consider one of the new, reasonably priced ($250 - $300) upshifting DVD players. Then you can simply set it to whatever looks best to you. After spending $4000 - $5000 on the HDTV, $250 for a DVD player sounds cheap. With HD DVD coming, I would not buy a $1,200 player, but $250 seems OK.

From what I can tell I should probably get a DVD player with a DVI or hdmi output so everything is kept digital which probably leaves me looking at $250 anyway. I would hope that if you spend 4-5K on a new TV it would have a better scaler than a $600 dvd player so why use the dvd player's scaler?

Originally posted by dafinman
From what I can tell I should probably get a DVD player with a DVI or hdmi output so everything is kept digital which probably leaves me looking at $250 anyway. I would hope that if you spend 4-5K on a new TV it would have a better scaler than a $600 dvd player so why use the dvd player's scaler?

Exactly! From what I understand, the chips used in the Sammies to up/downscale are excellent, which is why I have no qualms about continuing to use my POS DVD player... if and when I can get my hands on one of these beauties (HLR5668 is what I covet most, at this point)!

Originally posted by dafinman
From what I can tell I should probably get a DVD player with a DVI or hdmi output so everything is kept digital which probably leaves me looking at $250 anyway. I would hope that if you spend 4-5K on a new TV it would have a better scaler than a $600 dvd player so why use the dvd player's scaler?

When people talk about using cheap DVD players to feed their HDTV's, they are usually talking about feeding the DLP a 480i signal via component video. I have two DVD players in my system. Both of these players were about $300 when I purchased them in 2003. One is a Samsung DVD-HD931 HD upshifting player, and the other is a 480i / 480p Panasonic DVD-CP72 connected via component video. The all digital path of the Samsung 931 is a significantly better image on my Samsung DLP. The scalers work really well with the Panasonic image, but it is easy to see that the Samsung image is better. If you buy one of these TV's, you owe it to yourself to try an all digital signal path.

ucsb

Is it assumed that the pedestal models will be released first?

Yes, we have been assuming that the pedestal models would be out first. Samsung in their original press release said they would be out in February, with an update to April. We will have to see whether the April date is met.

question: When I get a DLP tv (possibly a 1080p model) and I get a better DVD player with an HDMI output, it seems that nothing can support the 1080p scale. The best DVD player out there today can only handle 720p/1080i, even look at the cables http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=6834483&type=product&productCategoryId=cat08061&id=1093386136720
So the 1080p sets will only be good for HD-DVDs, right? It even seems that HDTV won't be up to that resolution for some time too. Also, what kind of cables will be required for 1080p since the HDMI one I posted here doesn't recognize that.

subwoofer,

None of the 1080p sets will accept a 1080p signal. It will convert everything to 1080p, but they are not capable of receiving a true 1080p signal at this time. Perhaps the 2nd generation 1080p sets will be able to accept a 1080p signal...

I think the first HD-DVD players will only output 1080i anyway...

For more info on this, read FAQ #9 in Post #1 of this thread.

Thanks Admin

This is becoming more and more difficult when to decide on a HDTV. I just need something with enough ports for DVD, PS2 (PS3 next year) and Comcast HD cable tv. I guess sometime later I will want to go with HD-DVDs but I'm just not seeing the market picking them up and having them take off in sales. They are definitely something that is 5 years in advance.

I'm just not sure if I should go for something this summer or wait again...

Any tips guys?

I just got off the phone with someone from level 2 tech support at Samsung and he said the problem with the video game lag has been fixed in the upcoming 67 & 68 series. He said they should be release in about a month though.

^that is great news! I'm sure they have tested a PS2 and XBOX on these new systems due to so many people complaining.

Anyone here think you will notice a drastic difference between the 67 and 78 since one has 2000:1 contrast ratio and the other is at 10,000:1? Thats a huge difference on paper but is it worth the extra money and wait

Originally posted by sbro
ucsb

Is it assumed that the pedestal models will be released first?

They were supposed to be out first. But, Samsung didn't show any pedestal models at CES 2005. So ... I think that they are really moving away from the pedestal design. Translation, I think they are focusing on the tabletops. The tabletops are their key products and the pedestals are probably going to be worked in around them.

Another thought that I have had ... I don't have any data to support this, but when Samsung missed their date on the HLR5688W, I wondered if they are just going to hold back on this model until they can integrate the xHD4 chip and newer light engine into it. Why introduce the world to Samsung 1080p with inferior components and create an obstacle to acceptance of their bread-and-butter tabletop models a few months later.

Originally posted by cjlawson
I just got off the phone with someone from level 2 tech support at Samsung and he said the problem with the video game lag has been fixed in the upcoming 67 & 68 series. He said they should be release in about a month though.

Is this a firmware issue that could perhaps be applied to older HLP sets?

Ozy

Originally posted by subwoofer
So the 1080p sets will only be good for HD-DVDs, right?

No. The bulk of HD TV is in 1080i and the new sets will convert this to 1080p. 720p HD TV will be cleanly converted to 1080p. HD DVD's in 1080i will be cleanly converted. Computer inputs in 1080i will be perfectly converted. Really, all 1080i / 720p sources will be converted to 1080p.

One way to think about this is ... on my current Samsung DLP 1080i HD TV is converted down from 1920x1020 to 1280x720 before I see it displayed on my set.

Subwoofer...

first, all DVDs are recorded at 480i resolution. Nothing you can do can change that. The DVD players that output 720p/1080i upscale the original signal to the higher resolution (make up information to fill in the holes between 480i and the higher resolution).

The new HD DVD/Blu-ray players look to have 1080i output at the moment. Some HD broadcast signals are at 1080i.

The sets that are coming out are likely to do an excellent job of taking an 1080i signal and displaying it at 1080p. This will be particularly true of HD DVD/Blu-ray material as the majority of movies are filmed at 24 frames per second and moving this to 1080p seems to work very well (3:2 pull down).

Will we get actual 1080p source material and the ability to receive it on new HD sets? Yes it will eventually happen, but I think it will be some time down the road and I don't think it will result in a significantly better picture.

Is it possible for studios and directors to film movies in 480p or 720p? Just seems like the most logical answer to this DVD "problem" that has come around in these AV forums.

Thanks for the info schaffer and ucsb. I feel like I might be overkilling myself by getting an HDTV that is 1080p. But I might want to go with that if I want a tv that will last 5+ years. Right?

This may be news to you, but most movies are filmed with "film" :). The film is then scanned to a digital format. It is my understanding that most new films are scanned in a high definition format (I'm not sure exactly the resolution used). This high definition transfer is then compressed to a MPEG 2 format to be put on a DVD.

Some movies are now being "filmed" using digital cameras (I believe the new Star Wars movie is using HD cameras - again I am not sure of the exact resolution but likely at least 1080). This is a rapidly changing field with many changes on the way.

yes schaffer, I already knew all of that. Way ahead of you. Plus I do so much reading about my two favorite directors who are pushing for this: Cameron and Lucas. Its nice to see directors wanting to push this type of technology but its sad that alot of the others aren't interested. Maybe these DLP tvs are ahead of their time and just aren't made for old school movies.

It just seems that while using the old style of film, they would somehow digitally enhance them to a higher quality. I know they have superbit but it seems there should be a technlogy out there to do better. Maybe I'm just wanting the impossible

The resolution that the films are scanned at is higher than what is put on a DVD. DVDs only hold so much information and were designed for playing back a 2 hour movie using MPEG2 and 480i resolution. HD DVD/Blu-ray are being designed to use MPEG4 (and some other formats) and 1080i resolution.

Here is the kind of equipment that is used for scanning film Spirit DataCineŽ (http://www.thomsongrassvalley.com/products/film/spirit/stick_desc.html). It would appear that the scan resolution is 1920x1080.

I also found this explanation by Technicolor of the process that a film goes through from shooting to preservation & restoration. I thought it was interesting. Life of a Motion Picture (http://www.technicolor.com/Cultures/En-Us/Services/Video/VHSDuplication.htm?showFlash=yes&id={27881EAD-3CD4-4AAA-BDB6-09371D4BCFB1})

Eventually, we will have to get back to the new Sammy sets, but not much news at the present!:D

Originally posted by subwoofer
yes schaffer, I already knew all of that. Way ahead of you. Plus I do so much reading about my two favorite directors who are pushing for this: Cameron and Lucas. Its nice to see directors wanting to push this type of technology but its sad that alot of the others aren't interested. Maybe these DLP tvs are ahead of their time and just aren't made for old school movies.

It just seems that while using the old style of film, they would somehow digitally enhance them to a higher quality. I know they have superbit but it seems there should be a technlogy out there to do better. Maybe I'm just wanting the impossible

Sub, you can not get better resolution than film at this time. With the exception of reality. However, special effects are rarely filmed. ;) what you're really wanting is a bit of surreality that blends in with the ho-hum "been there, done that" worldview or 3-D(drool) or a combination of the two. Anyone else looking forward to "Battle Angel" in 3-D more than that "other film":D ?

This thread has gotten so huge that it's become challenging finding simple comparisons that most likely have been addressed. I apologize for the redundancy but I'm going cross eyed trying to find a simple answer to:

6768
7078

Why two large new DLP's so close in size coming onto the scene almost at the same time. Does this mean neither one has been cancelled and both will debut as 1080P Giants? What is the difference besides 3" and cosmetics? Is this an ego trip by Samsung to try an equal Qualia and new LG and JVC units? I need to know since I want to get into the next power buy for the 1080P and want to decide if the extra expense is worthwhile.

Thanks and forgive me for repeating what may be here but challenging to find.

Pretty much all answers can be found in post #1. UCSB does an incredable job of keeping it up-to-date with all the latest information. In answer to the question,

There will be TWO cosmetic versions of the tabletop models. One version, the 78 series will have a black lacquer bezel and will be sold by higher-end retailers and custom installers. The other version, the 68 series will have a floating screen design and is believed to be targeted at larger chain stores like BestBuy. The internals of both lines are equivalent, the case (and offered screen sizes) is the only difference. (post #1 at the begining of the 1080p set section) :D

Originally posted by westa6969
This thread has gotten so huge that it's become challenging finding simple comparisons that most likely have been addressed. I apologize for the redundancy but I'm going cross eyed trying to find a simple answer to:

6768
7078

Why two large new DLP's so close in size coming onto the scene almost at the same time. Does this mean neither one has been cancelled and both will debut as 1080P Giants? What is the difference besides 3" and cosmetics? Is this an ego trip by Samsung to try an equal Qualia and new LG and JVC units? I need to know since I want to get into the next power buy for the 1080P and want to decide if the extra expense is worthwhile.

Thanks and forgive me for repeating what may be here but challenging to find.

xx78's are going to be sold by AV dealers and custom installers ... higher-end retailers. xx68's are target at mass market retailers like best buy. The dealers get something special with the 70" and 50" 78 series.

Samsung has done this before ... in the HLN model year (2003), the dealers got units like the HLNxx7W with nice grey bezels, while best buy etc. got all silver HLNxx65W units.

Just a reminder, POST #1 at the top of this thread is being maintained and has the latest info.

Originally posted by westa6969
6768; 7078

Why two large new DLP's so close in size coming onto the scene almost at the same time.
If they both show up it was expected that they would be in different channels. The "78" line was expected to be in higher level regional chains. The "68" line was expected to be in the large national chains. Who knows, at this point, what will transpire. :cool:

There was a HLM619 with built in HD tuner expected December 2002. Then a HLN619 was expected -- also with a HD tuner. The Tuner sets are just starting to arrive. :D

UCSB, hopefully we are back to talking about the Sammies. I haven't found anything new on the 1080p sets. Hopefully we will see something soon on the FCC site.

One down and a few more to go..I know the majority of you are eager to get the same responce on the 1080 when in stock, but at this time the HLRxx77W models have just arrived in stock for those interested. It does have the HD2+ chip and the Ultra slim bezel design as well as the built in ATSC tuner and the cable card slot. For more question or information feel free to contact me to talk more about this model.

Thanks!
Cambryn
cambryn@tvauthority.com
1.888.286.5353 ext.520

Maybe our next chance for solid new information fix is:

Home Entertainment Show (http://www.homeentertainment-expo.com/)

NEW YORK HILTON
APRIL 28 – MAY 1, 2005 :D

Come on cammy, you can slip us some information on the 1080ps. We won't tell anyone, promise :D :D :D

Sure! The lastest news I have heard on this model is that its supposed to be a 1080P model ;) lol..I really don't know as much as you all do and perfer to give you solid information once I have it in hand directly from Samsung themselves.
Don't worry, I have not forgotten my very first preorder on this model!

Originally posted by schaffer970
Come on cammy, you can slip us some information on the 1080ps. We won't tell anyone, promise :D :D :D

Come on guys, clearly my incredible charm did nothing to sway cammy. Lets see some begging, groveling, pleading, promising... Have I covered it yet? :D :D

Now I am kind of leaning towards the 1080p models because of their high contrast ratio. In the FAQ section, it states that this higher contrast ratio is a huge improvement. Has anyone here seen this and is it that much better? Must have been a large leap in technology.

Can someone PM me as to what I could buy the HLR5078 at? The first page states it as -- HLR5078W (June 2005, MSRP guess $3,899). I was wondering how much I would probably pay for it.

Also, anyone here nervous about buying a first generation 1080p DLP TV? I would hate to get it with lots bugs

So - as a preface, I am in the the same boat as many...waiting on a 1080p 50 inch. In reference to the FCC website as a source of advance information, has anyone taken a look at the UL website for similar info? I am not sure if there would necessarily be any product as a whole information, but does TI need to get UL approval? If so, there may be some insight to be gained.

Hopefully the 68 series isn't far behind.

I'm waiting on the 6168 series, have a bunch of DVD's & Xbox games I haven't opened to view & play b/c my 1989 Sony CRT pic quailty sucks & wouldn't get the enjoyment as a new HDTV set will offer.

Can anyone tell me if there will be a slim bezel 46" 1080?? I have had a custom cabinet on order and I want to know if I should wait or just go ahead with the 4677...

Need to know!

Originally posted by jweisgal
Can anyone tell me if there will be a slim bezel 46" 1080?? I have had a custom cabinet on order and I want to know if I should wait or just go ahead with the 4677...

Need to know!

No 1080 models that small. The reality is won't make as much of an impact as a 56 or 60+ inch models. A 50" model in 1080p according to many is still hard to tell the difference compared to 720p. Of course this is just info I have heard on this forum.

Originally posted by jweisgal
Can anyone tell me if there will be a slim bezel 46" 1080?? I have had a custom cabinet on order and I want to know if I should wait or just go ahead with the 4677... Need to know!

I recently added the dimensions for all of the sets to POST #1 ... you may want to double check your cabinet against these dimensions. In addition, I added a new 42" 720p model targeted for small spaces to the 67 series area of POST #1.

I added a new 77 series section to POST #1.

Any estimates yet on the WEIGHT of the 6768 and 7078? This may affect whether or not I will have to get another stand. (If one simply scales up from the 99 lbs of the 6163, assuming that the weight goes like the square of the diagonal size, then this gives ~ 120 lbs for the 6768 and 130 lbs for the 7078; but this is certainly too primitive a guess!)

Originally posted by jayselle
No 1080 models that small. The reality is won't make as much of an impact as a 56 or 60+ inch models. A 50" model in 1080p according to many is still hard to tell the difference compared to 720p. Of course this is just info I have heard on this forum.

This is the exact two models and sizes that I am looking to get this summer. Doesn't matter to me if I get 720 or 1080, but it seems that there is a big difference between 10,000:1 contrast ratio and 2000:1. Anyone see this yet? This and the extra HDMI port on the back are the selling points for me

Originally posted by jayselle
No 1080 models that small. The reality is won't make as much of an impact as a 56 or 60+ inch models. A 50" model in 1080p according to many is still hard to tell the difference compared to 720p. Of course this is just info I have heard on this forum.

jweisgal,

If only a 1080p DLP will do, then, I agree - you are, at least for the time being, out of luck. However, what about the upcoming 1080p LCDs? There should be several 40" - 50" sets hitting the market soon. I believe that Samsung has a 45" 1080p LCD ready to go by early summer. A slightly pricier solution, to be sure, but it may be worth investigating.

Originally posted by subwoofer
This is the exact two models and sizes that I am looking to get this summer. Doesn't matter to me if I get 720 or 1080, but it seems that there is a big difference between 10,000:1 contrast ratio and 2000:1. Anyone see this yet? This and the extra HDMI port on the back are the selling points for me

Judging from UCSB's information there will not be a a 46" or 50" 1080p DLP TV from Samsung. That is what I was saying the first time I around but trying to make sense of it.

So if you want 1080P and at 50" or smaller then your going to be waiting a long time for DLP.

The is still a chance there will be a 50" 1080p. It would be the HLR5078. Samsung would not commit on the largest and smallest 78s but were discussing with their sales network.

Judging by some of the news I have recently seen, sales of the smaller machines have been particularly hot. It may be that Samsung is paying attention to that data and we will see the 50" size.

I'm trying to determine the difference between these 2 models and things don't seem to make sense. Here is what I have determined based on the info on the first post of this thread and the pdf use manuals:

The 67 model seems to have all of the features of the 77 plus a PC interface post, (2) IEEE 1394 ports, and a G-Link port for $200 less than the 77 model ($2699 vs. $2899). The only other difference appears to be that the 77 is 40.6" wide and the 67 is 42.8" wide and that the 67 will be sold my national retail chains (Best Buy, Circuit City, Sears, etc.) while the 77 will only be sold by higher end regional stores (i.e. Tweeter). The 67 looks like a much better deal if you can live with the extra 2" width. Plus you're likely to get a bigger discount on the 67.

Am I missing something here? Thanks.

Jay

I recently removed the tentative status off of the HLR5078W ... I think it is reasonably safe to count on it being released.

Originally posted by jerndl
I'm trying to determine the difference between these 2 models and things don't seem to make sense. Here is what I have determined based on the info on the first post of this thread and the pdf use manuals:

The 67 model seems to have all of the features of the 77 plus a PC interface post, (2) IEEE 1394 ports, and a G-Link port for $200 less than the 77 model ($2699 vs. $2899). The only other difference appears to be that the 77 is 40.6" wide and the 67 is 42.8" wide and that the 67 will be sold my national retail chains (Best Buy, Circuit City, Sears, etc.) while the 77 will only be sold by higher end regional stores (i.e. Tweeter). The 67 looks like a much better deal if you can live with the extra 2" width. Plus you're likely to get a bigger discount on the 67.

Am I missing something here? Thanks.

Jay
The HLR67 Series uses a wobble chip which produces a smoother picture... The 77 Series uses the HD2+ chip which produces a sharper picture...

In this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5354585#post5354585) you'll find a comparison of these models.

Originally posted by jerndl
Am I missing something here?

The HD2+ chip in the "77" sets is also more expensive.

Originally posted by jerndl
Am I missing something here? Thanks. Jay

The 77 uses the HD2+ DLP chip so each pixel on the screen is directly mapped to a single mirror on the chip. The 67 uses the HD4 (we, think), which maps one mirror to two pixels on the screen. With the 77 series you see distinct pixels, with the 67 you don't. The pictures will look different.

The 77 uses a six segment color wheel, the 67 uses a seven segment color wheel. This results in a slight difference in how colors are rendered.

The 77 uses a hybrid HLN (2003) / HLP (2004) light engine, the 67 will use a new HLR (2005) light engine.

Also, to the best of our knowledge the CableCard support on the 77 may not include TV Guide electronic program guide support. This doesn't make sense to me, but it would be something to research.

Finally, the case on the 77 series is pretty much finished front and back. The 67 series is pretty much a nice front on a utilitarian back. So if the HDTV was placed where people were seeing the side of the set, the 77 series would look nicer. I haven't seen the new 67 yet, but the aluminum trim on the 77 series is real and looks nice.

The bottom line ... you could go with either TV and be able to justify your decision.

Originally posted by htwaits
The HD2+ chip in the "77" sets is also more expensive.
Yes... And at one point, Steve told me the "Ultra Thin Bezel" cabinet was also more expensive...

--------------- He said:

"The cabinet on the 74/77 series runs $300 more at retail pricing all by itself compared to the new designs."

Originally posted by Administrator
The HLR67 Series uses a wobble chip which produces a smoother picture... The 77 Series uses the HD2+ chip which produces a sharper picture...

In this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5354585#post5354585) you'll find a comparison of these models. Is the wobble chip the HD3 or HD4? The first post says that the best guess for the DLP chip in the 67 series is HD4 and the above link states that it uses the HD3 chip. Is there any new news regarding which chip? Thanks.

Jay

Originally posted by jerndl
Is the wobble chip the HD3 or HD4? The first post says that the best guess for the DLP chip in the 67 series is HD4 and the above link states that it uses the HD3 chip. Is there any new news regarding which chip? Thanks.

Jay
Both the HD3 and HD4 are wobble chips... At this point, we're not 100% sure which one of those chips will be in the 67 Series, but it will be one of those chips...

So far it appears that HD2+ or HD3 chips are being used in the new sets. HD3 uses wobulation and I think the odds are good that the HD4 (if it exists - there is a discussion in post #1 - FAQ question #16) will be wobulated also.

Originally posted by UCSB
The bottom line ... you could go with either TV and be able to justify your decision. I guess I want it all. The ultra thin bezel, IEEE 1394 and PC interface. With my existing cabinet I don't think I can fit the 42.8" wide 67 model. Is there going to be a new 2005 model with the ultra thin bezel that has IEEE 1394/PC ports or is the 77 series the end of the line for the ultra thin bezel? Thanks for help.

Jay

Originally posted by jerndl
Is there going to be a new 2005 model with the ultra thin bezel that has IEEE 1394/PC ports or is the 77 series the end of the line for the ultra thin bezel?
Possibly it's the end of the line. At least for this year.

Originally posted by jerndl
Is there going to be a new 2005 model with the ultra thin bezel that has IEEE 1394/PC ports or is the 77 series the end of the line for the ultra thin bezel?
As far as I know, the 77 Series is the last we'll see of the Ultra Thin Bezel. (That's what Steve told me anyway.)

It is always possible that they could have a huge demand for that cabinet and bring it back...

Thanks for the quick and informative responses. One last question. Can you use the HDMI port on the 77 series to work with a PC using a DVI to HDMI cable/adapter? Is so are there any drawbacks to this method vs. using RGBHV PC port on the 67 series? Thanks again.

Jay

Originally posted by jerndl
Thanks for the quick and informative responses. One last question. Can you use the HDMI port on the 77 series to work with a PC using a DVI to HDMI cable/adapter? Is so are there any drawbacks to this method vs. using RGBHV PC port on the 67 series? Thanks again.

I'm doing DVI to DVI with my PC and DVI to HDMI with my Comcast STB. I don't know of any reason why it wouldn't work for you. "DVI/HDMI" is digital. My guess is that the RGBHV PC port is analog unless Samsung is playing naming games. I think staying "all digital" is an advantage.

Originally posted by htwaits
I'm doing DVI to DVI with my PC and DVI to HDMI with my Comcast STB. I don't know of any reason why it wouldn't work for you. "DVI/HDMI" is digital. My guess is that the RGBHV PC port is analog unless Samsung is playing naming games. I think staying "all digital" is an advantage. I was just trying to make sure there wasn't some "copy protection" issue with using the HDMI port with a PC. I wonder why Samsung decided to not offer PC and IEEE 1394 ports on the 77 series.

Jay

think of the HLRXX77s a HLRXX74s with an ATSC and Cablecard tuner. When you realize that the two are the same exept for those features it makes more sense. To add a PC input and firewire ports would have entailed a redesign

plus think of the HLRXX77s as a stop gap measure until the HLRXX78s come out and those models will have a PC input and firewire

It looks like the HL-R5067W does not have a DVI input. If I intend to use a DVD up converter player (yet to select a player), should I be concerned that I can't connect the signal through a DVI input?

This is my first HDTV and I am learning about the subject on the fly. Am I worrying about a non-issue or should this be considered a limitation?

I'd appreciate anyone who can provide a basic tutorial on this subject (I assume I'll be using the HDMI input for the HDTV signal...).

Thanks!

JDBull you will be fine as HDMI and DVI are completly compatible. There are DVD players that upconvert with HDMI and those with DVI and either one will be fine

Originally posted by Jon_W
think of the HLRXX77s a HLRXX74s with an ATSC and Cablecard tuner. When you realize that the two are the same exept for those features it makes more sense. To add a PC input and firewire ports would have entailed a redesign I am assuming that you meant HLPXX74. According to the Samsung web site the HPLXX74 has a PC and DVI interface. I can understand the new 77 model not having firewire but don't understand why they had to remove the PC and DVI port since they were already present in the previous model. I'm beginning to think that the HLP4674W might be the model for me if I can find one at a decent price. Since I need the ultra thin bezel I think I would rather have the PC and DVI ports of the 74 vs. the cable card and ATSC tuner of the 77. I am currently a Directv customer and will probably stay with them or go to Comcast. Either way I will be using an external DVR so the cable card or ATSC tuner in the 77 probably won't be of much use to me.

Jay

Thanks, I think...Second in the line of many dumb questions...

The HLR 67W model only has one HDMI input which I assume I'll be using for the HDTV signal. Does this mean I'll have to unplug the HDTV cable / plug in the DVD player everytime I want to watch a movie?

This subject can be very taxing for a simple caveman lawyer...

I did mean the HLPXX74, sorry. The new ATSC tuner in the HLRXX77 has to be connected to the system somehow and most people feel that the tuner is using the DVI input. Now that still leaves the lack of P.C. input to account for and as far as that goes I am in the dark.

JDBull,

You have a few options. If you need to connect a set top cable or sat box to your system you can use the component video inputs and use the HDMI for your DVD player. If you want to keeping everything digital you will have to get some type of HDMI switcher, either on its own or via a receiver. OR you can do as you stated and simply disconnect each device as you need to but that is not very satisfying.

Originally posted by JDBull
The HLR 67W model only has one HDMI input which I assume I'll be using for the HDTV signal. Does this mean I'll have to unplug the HDTV cable / plug in the DVD player everytime I want to watch a movie?
Not a dumb question but a dumb configuration that all the companies seem to use. You will need a HDMI switch or a AVR with multiple HDMI inputs and one HDMI output to the TV.

Thanks guys. I appreciate your help.

I am limited to a digital signal through the local cable company right now (Brighthouse) so keeping everything digital makes the most sense.

Also, won't running the HDTV signal through component cables lower the picture quality in comparison to keeping it digital throught the HDMI input?

Finally...ARV = Audio Receiver?

Thanks again. This forum and its member have been a terrific resource!

I think he meant "AVR" or Audio Visual Receiver. Component versus HDMI quality depends on more factors than one being digital and the other being analog. The simple fact is the quality of the signal that comes out of the set top box depends on the quality of the box itself and how well it works with your tv. I for instance have a Bell Expressvu 6100(actually made by Dishnetwork) Sat receiver and when I connect it to my Hitachi 60VS810 via HDMI there are geometry problems and the signal is too dark so component actually looks better, but that is just my case. If you take a look at your STB and let us know all the connections on it we might be able to help you determine your best set up with the HLRXX67s. As far as I am concerned you should just hook up your cable STB via component and for go the switcher but others might tell you differently.

At the moment the number of AVRs that have DVI/HDMI switching is very small (and expensive). The other route to go is a DVI/HDMI switch box (which are not exactly cheap but affordable). You can see this type of box at AVS sponsor RAM DVI/HDMI/ADC Connectivity Solutions (http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/gefen.htm). I expect to see AVRs with DVI/HDMI inputs come down in price in the near future.

For the HLRxx67, we could connect the DVD player to the single HDMI port, as has been mentioned. I have Comcast cable HD service through the DCT6412 DVR box, which I think has a firewire (IEEE 1394) output port, so I should be able to connect this to the TV too, right? This way we can have an all digital DVD and HD cable signal connected.

Originally posted by Jon_W
I think he meant "AVR" or Audio Visual Receiver.

He sure did. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Originally posted by schaffer970
At the moment the number of AVRs that have DVI/HDMI switching is very small (and expensive). The other route to go is a DVI/HDMI switch box (which are not exactly cheap but affordable). You can see this type of box at AVS sponsor RAM DVI/HDMI/ADC Connectivity Solutions (http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/gefen.htm). I expect to see AVRs with DVI/HDMI inputs come down in price in the near future.

Using a HDMI switch is soooooooooo lame. Its pathetic that someone who buys a 3000 dollar tv has to struggle to find enough ports. Thats a bad product and no wonder they added a second HDMI on the 1080p series. Its obvious that they didn't want to change the architecture of this series yet wanted to add more features. Can't have the best of both worlds sometimes. If I was using a STB and receiving HD signals, I would never use component simply because you are losing the digital signal with conversions.

But having one HDMI port should be a problem if you use a cable card from Comcast or a cable provider, right?

My only problem is that I will want HD signals, DVD player using HDMI and most likely a digital connection with my PS3 next year. This is why I will probably have to get the 1080p models.

I was reading through HDTV ETC.'s CES wrap-up in the current issue and comparing their findings with my own impressions. The article was written by Rodolfo La Maestra. Under the section titled "oversized RPTV 1080p technologies at CES," he ranked several 70" and 71" sets from competing technologies. According to him, the absolute best was the TI 70" demo with the JVC 1080p D-ILA coming in a close second. Tied for third was the Samsung 1080p DLP and the Sony Qualia. Although his opinions differ slightly from mine, I think it's an encouraging article because it shows exactly what I've been saying all along--that the PQ of the best performing sets are all very close. I liked the Qualia and the TI demo and the best with the JVC close to them (I normally don't rank the TI demo since it isn't going to be offered for sale). Some people liked the Samsung the best. You really can't lose with these new sets--and competition definitely benefits the consumers, with the possible exception of price.

Another thing I found was that he,like me, did not see the LG Spatialight demo (but heard good reports about its performance). LG should seriously reconsider its marketing strategy for their LCOS set. If it can produce a comparable picture for a good price, they should be showing it at every opportunity--not restricting access to it to the people who can drive interest and sales.

I'll step down from my soapbox now. I still feel good about buying the 6168 when it is available--I know TI and Samsung are working to bring a quality product to market.

Originally posted by Administrator
The HLR67 Series uses a wobble chip which produces a smoother picture... The 77 Series uses the HD2+ chip which produces a sharper picture...

In you'll find a comparison of these models.

probably a stupid qusetions but what's the difference between a smoother and sharper picture?

Originally posted by oneeyejack7
probably a stupid qusetions but what's the difference between a smoother and sharper picture?
A wobble chip (HD3, HD4, xHD3, xHD4) uses 1 mirror to create two pixels on the screen. The mirror wobbles to create two pixels...

The HD2+ chip uses 1 mirror to create 1 pixel on the screen.

Some people think the sharper picture is too digital looking... They think the smoother film-like picture looks better. The smoother picture is probably better for SD.

You basically need to go to the store and look at these sets and decide which one you like better...

The 63 Series (which is in stores now) uses the HD3 chip - Smoother picture.

The 74, 77, and 85 Series use the HD2+ chip - Sharper picture.

My advice would be to check those out and then you'll know if you like smoother or sharper (or if you can even see a difference).

New official Samsung press release today.....they will be releasing the HLR series only in Canada.:p ;) :D

Originally posted by sbro
New official Samsung press release today.....they will be releasing the HLR series only in Canada.:p ;) :D
I think it reads:

They will be releasing the HLR series, only NOT in Canada... :rolleyes:

For those of you who have been holding your breath for the HLR5688, here is a link to the owners manual from the FCC website

HLR5688 Users Manual (https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=528334&native_or_pdf=pdf) 1920x1080 Kirk model.

The internal pictures from the website do not show the light engine, so no news about exactly what is being used (other than it is 1920x1080).

Here is a link to Internal Pictures (https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=528331&native_or_pdf=pdf).

Like I said above, no pictures of the light engine.

I have seen the pictures but am still unsure of just how the "floating screen" tvs are constructed. Will I have any problem sitting one on a plywood shelf I have built into a wall? Or do they need special stands?

Thanks

Originally posted by gargoyle007
I have seen the pictures but am still unsure of just how the "floating screen" tvs are constructed. Will I have any problem sitting one on a plywood shelf I have built into a wall? Or do they need special stands?


I haven't seen one in person but it looks like they will be just like any other Samsung DLP TV in the back. The footprint will be the same too. The "floating" effect is just a gap between the base and the screen in the front portion of the case. It looks to me like it's just cosmetic.

Originally posted by gargoyle007
I have seen the pictures but am still unsure of just how the "floating screen" tvs are constructed. Will I have any problem sitting one on a plywood shelf I have built into a wall? Or do they need special stands?

Thanks

One thing to remember, 61" and above screen sizes have a stabilization foot that extends out in FRONT of the TV (it can be removed, but should be part of your plan). If a current HLPxx63W will work on the shelf, then the HLRxxxxW's will be OK. You can review the HLPxx63W technical diagrams in POST #1 at the top of this thread.

Originally posted by Administrator
I think it reads:

They will be releasing the HLR series, only NOT in Canada... :rolleyes:

It would not surprise me at all if they did that;)

Originally posted by sbro
It would not surprise me at all if they did that;)

sbro

I usually call Samsung every 2 weeks or so to try and get a feel for what's actually going to happen here in Canada.

If I get the same rep (they usually give their name) the conversation doesn't last too long.

Without any prompting from me as to possible new models, they have all refered to an HLR series as being the natual progression of model number, and "should appear around June".

I know this is hardly something we could consider as written in stone, but it is a straw to grasp at :)

Cheers

^June would be nice for a HLR5078w. That would give me some time to get cables and a stand.

MSRP is $3800 or $3900. Can someone PM me what I would probably pay from TVA or Tweeter on this?

Originally posted by subwoofer
^June would be nice for a HLR5078w. That would give me some time to get cables and a stand.

MSRP is $3800 or $3900. Can someone PM me what I would probably pay from TVA or Tweeter on this?

I would like to just remind everyone that Samsung has not released any 78 series pricing yet. The MSRP's in POST #1 are my best guesses. My assumption is that they would be priced at the same level as the 68 series. I don't expect them to be any cheaper, but I guess they could carry a small premium.

Can anyone remember if there was a pricing difference between the HLNxx7W and HLNxx65W models in 2003? That was a similar situation where the dealers received cabinets that were a little nicer.

OK, I give up. No comments on the users manual for the first of the 1920x1080 sets?

To me the fact that we have FCC approval for the first of the 1080p sets is terribly exciting! If you will recall the new 720p sets showed up on the FCC site not long before we saw them on the Samsung site. I am hopeful that we will see the HLRxx68/78 soon so that we may really see them in June.

Why would the 1080p sets not carry a premium over the the new 720p sets? I would expect there to be one. I would love the MSRP's of the 68/78 series on the first page of this thread to be accurate but I fear they will end up being higher.

Here is information on the chips Samsung is using in the new sets (HLRs)for HD decoding:

SAMSUNG has selected ATI's Xilleon and Theater chips in their series of mainstream to premium HDTVs for the worldwide market

Here is a link to more information:

SAMSUNG Electronics DLP HDTVs Endorse ATI As The Digital TV Technology Leader (http://apps.ati.com/ir/PressReleaseText.asp?compid=105421&releaseID=690881)

(edit better link)

Thanks for the manual schaffer970. On page 14, it says that the HDMI inputs are not compatible with PCs. Why would a PC with a DVI-HDMI cable be any different from a DVD player or cable box?

On the other hand, it looks like the VGA input will accept a 1920x1080 @60Hz signal.

Trying to figure out how best to connect a HTPC to this thing.

I was wondering the same thing. Possibility there are issues with overscan with HDMI. Also a possibility that this can be worked out in the service menu.

I need to also spend time looking into what the ATI chips will do, described in the above post.

Originally posted by schaffer970
OK, I give up. No comments on the users manual for the first of the 1920x1080 sets?

To me the fact that we have FCC approval for the first of the 1080p sets is terribly exciting! If you will recall the new 720p sets showed up on the FCC site not long before we saw them on the Samsung site. I am hopeful that we will see the HLRxx68/78 soon so that we may really see them in June.

Thanks for finding the manual, I'll add it to post #1. Hopefully, we can use it to answer at least one of our open issues questions. I have included the open issues below.

What we DON’T KNOW so far:

1. What is the contrast ratio spec’s for the HLR5087W 720p pedestal model? If they had one on display, did anyone notice if the pixel pattern was HD2+ or newer HD4 pattern?

2. What computer resolutions are supported on the 68, 78, and 88 series sets (1920x1080?)? How would this work through the HDMI connection (via DVI - HDMI cable?) Specifically, does it support 1920x1080. Since we have confirmed that the 68, 78, and 88 will have VGA/PC input, what resolutions will be supported via this input?

3. Will 1080p be supported on the component video inputs on the 1080p units?

4. Will the internal ATSC tuner or CableCard tuner support the future 1080p broadcast format on the 1080p units?

5. What capabilities does the 1394 port have to support 1080p? Specifically, if the internal tuner can support broadcast 1080p/24, can this be output via the 1394 port? Could a 1080p signal be input via the 1394 port?

Originally posted by UCSB
I would like to just remind everyone that Samsung has not released any 78 series pricing yet. The MSRP's in POST #1 are my best guesses. My assumption is that they would be priced at the same level as the 68 series. I don't expect them to be any cheaper, but I guess they could carry a small premium.

Can anyone remember if there was a pricing difference between the HLNxx7W and HLNxx65W models in 2003? That was a similar situation where the dealers received cabinets that were a little nicer.
I think the HLNxx7W was a little more expensive then the HLNxx65W. (If I remember correctly. :rolleyes: )

The higher-end retailers got the HLNxx7W and they will also get the 78 Series. I believe the 78 Series will be a little more expensive then the 68 Series...

They give the higher-end retailers different sets (like the HLNxx7W and HLRxx78W) so they don't have to price match with other stores like Best Buy, etc.

Originally posted by T. Perinne
Why would the 1080p sets not carry a premium over the the new 720p sets? I would expect there to be one. I would love the MSRP's of the 68/78 series on the first page of this thread to be accurate but I fear they will end up being higher.

1080p sets carry a big premium over 720p. In addition, we don't know how much discounting is going to occur on the 1080p models ... so the gap could even be wider.

The 68 series prices in POST #1 are from a Samsung press release. They should be accurate (although Samsung can always adjust pricing when the sets are actually released). What I meant by my earlier post is ... even though we have 68 series pricing, there has not been any announced 78 series pricing so I had to guess on the 78 series pricing.

Originally posted by T. Perinne
Why would the 1080p sets not carry a premium over the the new 720p sets? I would expect there to be one.
I think you may have misread UCSB's post at the bottom of page 82...

He wasn't talking about 720p sets. He was referring to the 68 and 78 Series which are both 1080p. (68 Series sold in stores like Best Buy. 78 Series sold at higher-end retailers and custom installers.)

The question was whether or not there would be a price difference between those two 1080p sets.

Gotcha...

Then in that case, I too think the 78 series would be slightly higher than the 68.

I am also a bit surprised that the internals would be 100% the same between the 68 and 78, I would have guessed the 78 series to have a slight technical advantage as well i.e. number of inputs, picture adjustability, etc. - not just a cosmetic difference. For example, Pio's Elite line of plasmas have different cosmetics but also a few technical enhancements.

Originally posted by T. Perinne
I am also a bit surprised that the internals would be 100% the same between the 68 and 78, I would have guessed the 78 series to have a slight technical advantage as well i.e. number of inputs, picture adjustability, etc. - not just a cosmetic difference. For example, Pio's Elite line of plasmas have different cosmetics but also a few technical enhancements.

The HLM and HLN lines had different cosmetic lines with no internal differences. The purpose of the two versions was to avoid price matching. That seems to be the assumption regarding the "68"/"78" series.

For instance BB is a big Samsung customer. So is Magnolia but they are a higher end regional chain. They also happen to be owned by BB. I wouldn't expect BB to want price matching going on "in-house".

Originally posted by T. Perinne
I am also a bit surprised that the internals would be 100% the same between the 68 and 78
They did this with the HLN models in 2003... The HLNxx7W had the same internals as the other HLN's, only difference was the "Ultra Thin Bezel" cabinet.

Like I said, it just gives the higher-end retailers a little different model to sell so they don't have to price match with other stores...

Plus it's probably easier/cheaper for Samsung to do that then develop a whole new model. ;)

It's a good thing we have TVA to provide competitive prices regardless of the model, including nice discounts through powerbuys.

Originally posted by Clorox
It's a good thing we have TVA to provide competitive prices regardless of the model, including nice discounts through powerbuys. AMEN!!!!

I've been looking for a DLP HDTV for a few months now. From what I see here TVA is a good vendor and I will probably go through them ( I was initially scared of warranty situations and repiars, but the posts I see, its not an issue ).

Anyway, I'm looking at this power buy for HLR models and my question is should I get an HLR over an HLP? I'm looking mostly for a 46" or 50" and one of my primary concerns is depth. Both are comparable but there is a good $500 difference from HLR to HLP.

I'm not sure what some of the differences actually relate to in viewable differences...

When will we know if a 1080p Samsung 50-inch set will be a reality? Until then can LG claim to have the lowest priced 1080p DLP set in the world? Are there ANY 1080p sets of any technology cheaper than the LG 1080p DLP?

Do the HLR models correct the Smudge problems?

Originally posted by Administrator
Well, Samsung knows about the problem and they have another screen manufacturer that doesn't have the smudging problem...

I believe the new sets will be smudge free.

Steve said "This will need to be resolved", indicating that they will need to make sure this is fixed before the new sets ship. That's what I got out of it anyway.

Above is the information posted by Administrator from his conversations with Steve P of Samsung

Also, the following information is found in post #1

13. Some HLP owners have reported smudge problems on two layer viewing screens, has this problem been resolved with the screen material and designs being used on the 2005 models?

a. Comments by Administrator (AVSforum Member)

b. Steve P. of Samsung says that this is a manufacturing problem and it will be resolved. His entire answer can be found in this post by Administrator POST.

sorry new to this thread... If I am picked up correctly there will be a 70 inch tv released by samsung in june??? can someone fill me in on the 70 inchers coming out.?

Go to the first post in this thread, everything that is known about the upcoming sets is contained in that post (it is updated continuously by UCSB).

It looks like we are getting closer to the 1080p sets. If you do a google search for hlr6168w or hlr6768w, you get a link to TVA pages that are not up yet. Updated information is listed from what TVA currently shows on their web site. Two items are of interest, first CR is now listed at 5,000:1, not a big surprise and expected in stock date is 7/1. I have my fingers crossed that for those of us who have pre-ordered, maybe an actual June ship date. :)

When you say 7/1 in stock date, does that also include stores such as Tweeter owning them?

I'm just thinking that a 1080p set is going to be more than 4k and I don't like the sound of that.

Originally posted by subwoofer
When you say 7/1 in stock date, does that also include stores such as Tweeter owning them?

I'm just thinking that a 1080p set is going to be more than 4k and I don't like the sound of that.

Lol... Kirk is going to take away your Google privileges :D

I hope not. You can find amazing things on the WWW, if you spend the time to look :D

Whew, I'm safe. Just looked at the TVA site and the new pages are up this morning. :D

http://www.tvauthority.com/DLP-TV-HDTV/Samsung-HL-R6168W.asp Yea they only got the 6168w model. But at a good price for 61". Thats even better cause TVA has it about 1000 less than the first post on this thread. Not bad....Not gimme my HLR5078w please :)

Seems that the HLR6168w is only at 5000:1 ratio, 1 HDMI input and is slightly wider than whats on the first page too. I was hoping that these 1080p sets would have 2 HDMI inputs.

Does anyone know how hard it will be to get one of these tvs or are they are back order for a while? I would hate to see a 7/1 stock date and not be able to get it until the fall or something.

If I'm not allowed to post websites like this, please let me know. I can't remember if we can from sites that are sponsers.

I do not think we should take TVAs specs as gospel yet because they do not even have any firewire ports listed besides the 1080P HLR5688W has two HDMI inputs listed in its manual (see link on page 83 of thread) TVA is probably just placing what they absolutely know for certain about the new HLR6168W on their site.

subwoofer, I think that price on the TVA page is incorrect (it also says now available - which it isn't). Don't forget the list is 4499 and the price on the TVA page would be rather amazing. I don't think we will know the exact price that TVA will have until they announce a powerbuy here. :(

Dammit.............they got my hopes up. Well then I would expect it to be around 4000 to 4200

sub, you might want to compare the list prices with what TVA is selling the new 720 HLR sets for and then go from there. I think your estimated is close, but might include an extended warranty. Also depending on how many sets are sold as part of the powerbuy, there can be an additional discount.

Good point. Cause here is how I add things up:

$3000-3250 -> DLP
$250-300 > warrenty
$200-300 > DVD player
$200-300 > stand
$100 > power strip

So I'm looking at around 4000 at the most for my HDTV system.

It looks like the new Samsungs are coming with new electronics from ATI. This is the link to the press release.

http://apps.ati.com/ir/PressReleaseText.asp?compid=105421&releaseID=690881

Originally posted by subwoofer
Seems that the HLR6168w is only at 5000:1 ratio, 1 HDMI input and is slightly wider than whats on the first page too. I was hoping that these 1080p sets would have 2 HDMI inputs.

So, I'm new to this forum, but I think I can help you out with the number of HDMI inputs. I sent a request to Sammy's PR firm, just prodding them a little as to why'd I'd want a 1080p set if it doesn't accept any 1080p signals (thus relying on their own scaling / deinterlacing technology vs. being able to use a video processor of my own). Here is the official response from Samsung's "DLP Experts." I posted the whole response in case anyone is interested in it, but the last line will answer your specific question about HDMI inputs.

"The new 1080p products launcing this summer will NOT accept 1080p via DVI, HDMI or Analog Component Video. But, this fact shouldn't be the reason NOT to buy a 1080p display product.

Remember the early designed line doubled/fim mode equipped progressive scan DVD players? The reason why the more expensive players looked better is the conversion is performed before conversion to analog. Less expensive players line doubled after analog conversion. It is also the reason why the more recently featured upconverter DVD players perform even better when connected to a display via DVI or HDMI.

Similar to upconverter DVD players, it's important that new generation Set Top Box products (cable HD and satellite HD) are either DVI or HDMI equipped AND activated. The new Integrated HDTV sets by Samsung basically guarantee off air 1080 performance, sources other than off air HD will require DVI or HDMI to achieve the best picture quality provided the sources are at least HD and specifically 1080p originated production for the best results.

It is important to know that when 24fps 1080i (film to HD Video) broadcasts are transmitted, the TV's HDTV tuner / decoder / conversion circuitry converts the 1080i to 1080p based on a progressive frame rate - 24 fps, and is essentially displayed as a progessive HD 1080 format. Frame rates above the 1080 24 fps are not within the standard and would required more than the 6 megahertz bandwidth. The broadcast standard's data pipe is just not big enough. So, the conversion needs to be completed on the display side.

Now, having said this, it is more important to know that if a broadcast program's ORIGINAL production, whether it's sports, film to 1080p video, or studio production in HD 1080p, is broadcast in 1080i and at 30i or 60i frame rates, the TV's (front end) conversion solution changes it to 1080p. The resulting picture quality is better than 1080i production and, of course, inncluding a lesser format that like NTSC upconversions (480i SD). All inputs on these new sets are scaled to 1080p.

Other reasons to consider a Samsung DLP - the new models feature our 1080p Cinema Smooth(tm) Gen 6 Light Engines that will deliver higher contrast ratios, better brightness and an improved perceived resolution on content that was produced in 1080p. Even 1080i originated content should look better than our 720p series due simply to less conversion issues compared with 1080i to 1080p. The 1080p models are also featured with TWO HDMI inputs so an external HD STB and a DVD player can be connected via a digital connection."

Wow! What an impressive 1st post! Thanks Bruiser!

Excellent Info...Welcome to the AVS forum!!!

BruiserG ... your post answered one of our open questions from POST #1. So I have closed the open question we had about 1080p on the component video inputs and created FAQ #17, which is shown below:

17. Will 1080p be supported on the component video inputs on the 1080p units? Comment by BruiserG (New AVSforum Member)
The new 1080p products launcing this summer will NOT accept 1080p via DVI, HDMI or Analog Component Video. (See this post for more info POST (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5424367#post5424367)).

Here are our four current open questions from POST #1:


What we DON’T KNOW so far:

1. What is the contrast ratio spec’s for the HLR5087W 720p pedestal model? If they had one on display, did anyone notice if the pixel pattern was HD2+ or newer HD4 pattern?

2. What computer resolutions are supported on the 68, 78, and 88 series sets (1920x1080?)? How would this work through the HDMI connection (via DVI - HDMI cable?) Specifically, does it support 1920x1080. Since we have confirmed that the 68, 78, and 88 will have VGA/PC input, what resolutions will be supported via this input?

3. Will the internal ATSC tuner or CableCard tuner support the future 1080p broadcast format on the 1080p units?

4. What capabilities does the 1394 port have to support 1080p? Specifically, if the internal tuner can support broadcast 1080p/24, can this be output via the 1394 port? Could a 1080p signal be input via the 1394 port?

---------------------------------------

Some parts of question 2 can probably be answered with the newly released HLR5688W manual.

I would just like to remind everyone that many questions about the new 2005 Samsung DLP's can be answered by looking in POST #1 at the top of this thread.

Originally posted by subwoofer
Good point. Cause here is how I add things up:

$3000-3250 -> DLP
$250-300 > warrenty
$200-300 > DVD player
$200-300 > stand
$100 > power strip

So I'm looking at around 4000 at the most for my HDTV system.

Subwoofer ... from your post I'm not exactly sure which Samsung DLP you are hoping to buy, but from one of your earlier posts it seemed like the HLR5078W. I would just like to caution against relying on big discounts on these units. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but while we saw great TVauthority discounts on the new 67 series, they only offered $200 off the new 77 series. I personally have no idea of how large the discounts on the new 1080p units are going to be, but the small discounts on the 77 series has made me realize not too set to high of expectations in this area until we see the actual discounts on the 68 /78 series.

I added a link in the 88 series section of POST #1 to the preliminary HLR5688W manual ... thanks schaffer970!

Thanks for the welcome!

Does anyone know if there is different functionality in the 6768, from the smaller models? Both the 5668 and the 6168 come in at about $74 / inch. The 6768 jumps to $90 per inch at $5999, and $104 at $6999. This leads me to believe that the actual price will be $5999, but that is still a huge leap for 6 more inches of screen. Just trying to determine if it is justified or of it's just marketing.

Also VERY interested in the power buys. Having never done one before, about how long before release do you usually end up signing up / making a commitment to buy?

Thanks!

The only difference in the various models in the 68 series is the size. As far as we know, the electronics in the 68 & 78 series are identical. The only change is in the case.

The National Cable and Telecommunications Association National show started today. As part of that there is also CableNet 2005 at which Samsung promised to show working 2-way cable card. This link provides information on what they are showing: Samsung Electronics OCAP™ High-Definition Television (http://www.cablenet.org/participants/demos/Samsung1.pdf). It is interesting to note that Samsung says they are using 300 MIPS ATI Xilleon processor to run this. I believe that this is the same processor that ATI & Samsung announced would be in the new HLR sets.

I'm going to purchase the 5677w in the next month or so. I was wondering if there are any opinions/advice about satellite vs. digital cable. I'm leaning towards satellite, but would like to hear and pros or cons using the 5674 with either source.

Originally posted by BruiserG
Having never done one before, about how long before release do you usually end up signing up / making a commitment to buy?

I think TVA needs to have positive confirmation that the models they are doing a power-buy on are on their way. They also need solid price information before the power-buy is more than just a "waiting" list.

In the past it has taken several shipping cycles to ship to all the power-buy customers. TVA calls each customer when they have a unit available. At that time you have to confirm your order. In the past you also have the option to drop to the bottom of the list or drop out.

Originally posted by afd10529
I'm going to purchase the 5677w in the next month or so. I was wondering if there are any opinions/advice about satellite vs. digital cable. I'm leaning towards satellite, but would like to hear and pros or cons using the 5674 with either source.

I don't know what your cable company offers ... but here is the San Francisco bay area, Comcast offers a HD DVR for $9.95 a month (Motorola 6412). It is a great unit and really allows you to get your money's worth out of your HD service and HDTV.

Originally posted by UCSB
I don't know what your cable company offers ... but here is the San Francisco bay area, Comcast offers a HD DVR for $9.95 a month (Motorola 6412). It is a great unit and really allows you to get your money's worth out of your HD service and HDTV.

I second that emotion! Comcast offers the same deal for a 6412 here in the Boston area. I was and continue to be severely impressed by the unit. I make extensive use of its ability to display/record 2 programs at once, its ability to automatically record first-run episodes of my favorite series, and especially its ability to pause, rewind, fast-forward, etc. the program I'm watching (even when it's live!). And the HD channels almost make me forget I'm watching a 12-year-old standard-def CRT (although that's probably due more to the fact that they're digital than HD). I think this box is worth getting, even if you don't have an HDTV yet!

Originally posted by UCSB
I don't know what your cable company offers ... but here is the San Francisco bay area, Comcast offers a HD DVR for $9.95 a month (Motorola 6412). It is a great unit and really allows you to get your money's worth out of your HD service and HDTV.

I guess I would add to my earlier comments that for me HD was hardly worth the extra expense until I got the DVR. I was a ReplayTV user before going to HD and couldn't make the step back to live TV after getting HD. Having a DVR is more important than the service you select.

Am I the only person who sees a vertical scrollbar smack in the middle of all my postings?! It's driving me crazy, but I can ignore it, as long as I know no one else sees the damn thing!

OK, not in this one, but in my previous posting?

Originally posted by thommy
Am I the only person who sees a vertical scrollbar smack in the middle of all my postings?! It's driving me crazy, but I can ignore it, as long as I know no one else sees the damn thing!

Nope. Don't see it.

Originally posted by thommy
Am I the only person who sees a vertical scrollbar smack in the middle of all my postings?!
Yes. ;)

Try reinstalling your browser or change to a different one if you are using IE. :D

Thanks, Don! Thanks, HT! I wouldn't touch IE with a 12-foot pole! But I've seen this problem with Safari, Camino, Firefox, and Mozilla on Mac OS X! (Please don't mock me!)

It looks like you will have to treat it as a feature. I have no idea where begin unless you are using a "View" feature that I've never run into. Do you see it using a single pain window?

It looks like you will have to treat it as a feature. I have no idea where begin unless you are using a "View" feature that I've never run into. Do you see it using a single pain window?

I had the same scroll bar when I was using Camino with my Mac.

I'm posting this with Safari, and will know in a second whether it makes a difference.

--Ernie

No scroll bar with Safari.

--Ernie

Originally posted by UCSB
Subwoofer ... from your post I'm not exactly sure which Samsung DLP you are hoping to buy, but from one of your earlier posts it seemed like the HLR5078W. I would just like to caution against relying on big discounts on these units. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but while we saw great TVauthority discounts on the new 67 series, they only offered $200 off the new 77 series. I personally have no idea of how large the discounts on the new 1080p units are going to be, but the small discounts on the 77 series has made me realize not too set to high of expectations in this area until we see the actual discounts on the 68 /78 series.

Thats the one I am aiming for. I'm hoping not to spend over $3500.....I would say that is my limit and I need a 50". 56" get too wide for me and I feel like 46" just isnt worth it, haha. Because I with the 50 inch set, that is 46.5 inches wide and then I got two 3" wide speakers that I would sit on the table with the tv. So that puts me at about 56" wide with some space in between them.

I won't get my hopes up for big discounts but if they don't, I can see what Tweeter has to offer. From what I can remember (correct me if I'm wrong) but don't most Sammy 50" DLP tvs that are new run at around $3500?

Are the dimensions for the TV tables in the first post finalized (has anyone actually measured one IRL)? My niche in the wall is something like 57-1/4" (from inside the baseboards) and I want a 61" TV, so I'm cutting it a bit close. I could remove the baseboards, but I'd rather not...

I would say the dimensions are as good as we are going to get until someone has a set in their living room. The dimensions that UCSB has are from TVA, in this POST (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=521619&highlight=hlr)

The new 720P models must be pretty close to wide distribution, I saw the HLP5674 at Costco today. It was the first time I have seen one and it was right next to a HLP5663. I couldn't tell too much difference between the 2 except I think the Incredibles looked slightly better on the 74 series, probably because it was made digitally and the 74's use the sharper, more digital like HD2+ chip.

I've been using Max OS X with Safari or Mozilla, and I haven't seen any of those odd scroll bars.

Originally posted by FlySaab
The new 720P models must be pretty close to wide distribution, I saw the HLP5674 at Costco today. It was the first time I have seen one and it was right next to a HLP5663. I I believe the HLP5674 is not the new model. The HLR5677 is the new model that replaces the HLP5674. BTW did Costco have the HLP4674? Thanks.

Jay

Originally posted by jerndl
I believe the HLP5674 is not the new model. The HLR5677 is the new model that replaces the HLP5674. BTW did Costco have the HLP4674? Thanks.

I think FlySaab's point was that when a TV model shows up at CostCo the newer models are very close. The thinking being that Costco carried overruns and discontinued or replaced models.

The HLP5674 was first available in our stores this past November. Not a very long life span for a good TV. :)

I know that the HLP5674 is not a new model. It is the newest of the the older ones, and so once those usually hit the discount places like Costco, it's pretty much assured that their replacements are out. I haven't seen the 77's yet in my local stores, they still seem to be selling the 63 and 85 series.

I only saw the 56" sizes at Costco.

Does Costco deliver? How on earth are you going to get that 56" home?

Originally posted by investor27
Does Costco deliver? How on earth are you going to get that 56" home?
Rent a pickup. :cool:

flysaab, i sent you a pm.

Originally posted by investor27
Does Costco deliver? How on earth are you going to get that 56" home?

My HLP6163 fit in the back of my expedition, in the box, standing up, with room to spare. Probably would have fit in an explorer (never could have fit in a jeep or a chevy though :D )

Originally posted by subwoofer
From what I can remember (correct me if I'm wrong) but don't most Sammy 50" DLP tvs that are new run at around $3500?
Remember, Samsung hasn't sold any 1080p sets yet, so I don't think you can assume anything from previous 720p prices... The 1080p models will certainly cost more money.

Originally posted by afd10529
I'm going to purchase the 5677w in the next month or so.
Keep a close eye on the availability of the 77 Series... It may not be around for very long.

The first manual posted for the 1080p set claims that the optimal resolution for the VGA (pc) input is 1920x1080 @ 60 Hz...

Does this confirm that the set will natively display 1080p via a PC?

I would say yes. However, don't forget that the VGA (PC) input is analog not digital. As far as I can tell so far, the digital (HDMI) input will only be 1080i.

I'll be plenty happy to be able to run my HTPC at 1920x1080 and feed it an analog 1080p signal. :-)

I am sure this has been addressed somewhere in this 80+ page thread, but a quick search couldn't answer the question of:

Is there any chance of Samsung making a 50 inch model in the 68 series?

Originally posted by JDBull
Is there any chance of Samsung making a 50 inch model in the 68 series?
There is a slight chance that Samsung will not make the 78 Series at all. If that happens, then you might see a 50" model in the 68 Series.

However, I think Samsung will be making the 78 Series, which means a 50" model in the 68 Series is highly unlikely. :(

Originally posted by JDBull
Is there any chance of Samsung making a 50 inch model in the 68 series?
The first message of this thread has the best current guess at any given point in time.

Originally posted by KevinG
I'll be plenty happy to be able to run my HTPC at 1920x1080 and feed it an analog 1080p signal. :-)

My newly purchased 5063 isn't lookin so good right about now!!! :)

Ah well, I don't have a powerful enough computer to run games 1920x1080 at anymore than a slideshow...

Hmm....time to upgrade the computer too?

Ozy

i just looked at the manual and i am quite excited at the fact that the manual says optimal resolution for the pc input is 1080p. I have a sharp lcd that i have a pc hooked up to and 1080p is great. time will tell though. i wonder if jvc will get 1080p support in their upcoming models? does anyone know info on that?

-rob

I want my 6168 darn it!

That & my Xbox2 too!

Has DVD input to the HLR 1080p models been discussed? I'm wondering with the TV's internal scaling if a 480i or 480p signal in from a DVD player would be the best so that the TV's scaler does all the work to 1080p or if perhaps an upscaling DVD player outputing 1080i would be best so all the TV's scaler has to do is deinterlace to 1080p. Just wondering since I'm also looking at DVD players that would work the best with the new 1080p's.

BTW, I know it will be best to wait and see... I'm just thinking ahead here.

What was the Costco price for the HLP 5674?

Originally posted by dogmaster
What was the Costco price for the HLP 5674?

Yes, and at what costo(s) are you finding these ?

Originally posted by cpb_mille
Yes, and at what costo(s) are you finding these ?

i think flysaab saw the hlp5674 at a socal costco (about 3k). it looks like you guys are in the bay area like myself. i called the costco in sunnyvale but they couldn't find the hlp5674 in their computers for the nearby bay area stores. if anyone sees this set up here in norcal, please let us know. thanks! :)

https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=528334&native_or_pdf=pdf

Page 126 for the new 1080p set states teh VGA resolution is OPTIMAL for 60hz 1920x1080. Wow. Has anyone noticed this before? This will be incredible with MCE2005.

Yes this was discussed a page back. See discussion with KevinG, some others and myself.

I've updated POST #1 to make it clear that the PC/VGA input supports 1920x1080 @ 60 Hz on the 1080p models.

So will the PC input, with a kickass HTPC, give the best picture on these sets when it comes to DVD?

This is huge news Bill!

Thanks for the info. I've been checking this thread periodically with this my primary concern. I'd prefer they add 1080P to HDMI as well of course.

BTW, you don't know me, but I started the first Sammy PowerBuy (HLM507W) way back when. :)

Ken

2. What computer resolutions are supported on the 68, 78, and 88 series sets (1920x1080?)? How would this work through the HDMI connection (via DVI - HDMI cable?) Specifically, does it support 1920x1080. Since we have confirmed that the 68, 78, and 88 will have VGA/PC input, what resolutions will be supported via this input?

You'd think they'd give you DVI and HDMI love? VGA is just so......ugh compared to DVI.... *sighs* get out of the stone-age Samsung, High End TV's need High End Ports!

EDIT: Also I could've told you that about VGA, seeing as I have a CRT that can do 2304x1440 over VGA :), but I'm glad to hear it anyways.... although I still hate VGA over DVI.

- D

Originally posted by KenLand
BTW, you don't know me, but I started the first Sammy PowerBuy (HLM507W) way back when. :)

Ken, you "almost" got me in trouble. I ask someone from Sugar Land TX if he could explain why there were so many AVS contributers living in Sugar Land. I think he suspected me of teasing him, but in the end I convinced him that I was being sincere. I used you as proof!
:D

How bad can VGA be vs DVI or HDMI? Wouldn't true 1080p via VGA be better than 1080i (then deinterlaced by the Sammy) via HDMI or DVI?

You can build a kick ass HTPC for the price of a flagship DVD player...

Originally posted by T. Perinne
How bad can VGA be vs DVI or HDMI? Wouldn't true 1080p via VGA be better than 1080i (then deinterlaced by the Sammy) via HDMI or DVI?
I "think" I would rather de-interlace 1080i one time rather than go digital > analog > digital with 1080p. But, since I've never had the chance to do either I guess I'm stuck waiting for owner reports. ;)

Sorry HT,

Well, it is a sweet place to live :)

It's true that I once got accused of working for TI here for being too enthusiastic about Sammy DLP's.

I think its safe to say now that the thin tabletop form is such a phenomenon that I was justified. The DLP engine is as sharp and clear as the day I calibrated it.

I've been waiting for the 1080P + better blacks and dithering to make it worth an upgrade. Although I'll keep my 507 and put the 1080P in our living room.

Ken

Originally posted by KenLand
It's true that I once got accused of working for TI here for being too enthusiastic about Sammy DLP's.

That area has been quiet for almost a year. :)

Now we get our inside information the hard way -- with the hard work of the "suppliers" of vetted data to this forum. :D

I've been waiting for the 1080P + better blacks and dithering to make it worth an upgrade.

I'm going to stay with our current DLP until the 1080p sets are on the other side of their curve. Strange -- I don't seem to be running a fever any more.

Potentially even better news. I also have been wondering about the possibility of 1920x1080 60Hz input over DVI/HDMI for some time. I have been looking at the internal pictures on the FCC site for the new machines and noticed that on the upcoming HLR5688 (the first of the 1080 sets) that the high resolution display controller (digital signal decoder) chip used was the gm1601 (Genesis Microchip). I then got to searching around and found out that Samsung is already using this chip in their 1920x1080 LCD set, the LTP468w. If you go to page 102 of the LTP468w Manual (http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/200412/20041214165307906_BN68-00665D-02Eng.pdf) where it shows all the resolutions the set is capable of, it shows 1920x1080 @59.988Hz and then there is the following statement:

The Mode for DVI is the same as those for the PC.

There is the possibility that there are other reasons why the set might not be able to accept and then display 1920x1080 60Hz, but it looks like there is a possibility that it will work. It would be interesting to hear from someone who has one of the LCD sets.

I live in the community NEXT to Sugar Land.... does that count? :)


BTW, nice to see you posting here in the RPTV forums again, Ken. Welcome back!

Regs,
Jeff... another Sugar Land-area TI Goon

Hey Jeff,

How ya been?

Schaffer, I like your tactics (Back in my day I could count on an anonymously emailed datasheet :) )

That chip must be tamed in firmware. The info from Genesis says it will handle up to WUXGA (1920x1200) on its analog *and* digital ports. Now, that would be cool if Sammy would just let the chip do what it can.

Ken

Ken, I wish I could get my hands on a datasheet or two :) Apparently Samsung did enable the chip on the LCD set, so we can only hope they also do it on the DLP sets. Think there is any chance the same engineers worked on both sets (maybe they will forget and leave the digital stuff on)?

Just catching up and thought it would be nice to hear your opinion on using the new ATI AIW x800 xt in my new HTPC. Would I be better off using the VGA/PC out to the PC in on the Sammy or the DVI PC out to the HDMI in on the sammy?

It sounds like it's six of one etc...

Also, will the InterVideo WinDVD 5.0 player that comes standard with MCE 2005 do all I need or should I be considering other software?

Ken,

Not doing bad at all right now. I ended up getting my HLN617 replaced under warranty after the fifth service call. I now have an HLP-5685 and couldn't be happier. I spent the better part of this past weekend working out all the discrete codes and programming them into two different remotes. Fun stuff.

As for the GM1601... correct me if I'm wrong, but I THOUGHT that every DLP set since the HLNW1 models has had that sucker in them. It's not really a surprise to see that the newer HLR sets will as well. I bugged a couple different online places trying to get a datasheet on that part. The best I could do was just download the overview of the chip from the Genesis site. I posted about that ages and ages ago. I'll see if I can dig up the post.

Regs,
Jeff

Here's the post on the internal chips used and listed in the SM for the W! sets. It shares much in common with the HLP models and evidently the HLR as well.

gm1601 and other chips info thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=423597&highlight=gm1601)

Regs,
Jeff

Originally posted by JONNY_P
Just catching up and thought it would be nice to hear your opinion on using the new ATI AIW x800 xt in my new HTPC. Would I be better off using the VGA/PC out to the PC in on the Sammy or the DVI PC out to the HDMI in on the sammy?

I have the same card and use the DVI > DVI connection which gets me a 1x1 bit map (1280x720) using the HLP5063's "Expand" mode. I like the digital connection and haven't tried VGA (analog).

htwaits, got any pictures of your PC displayed on the 5063?

Originally posted by subwoofer
htwaits, got any pictures of your PC displayed on the 5063?
Nope. I'm not into compressed digital pictures of digital TV images. :)

thanks

Quote from htwaits
I have the same card and use the DVI > DVI connection which gets me a 1x1 bit map (1280x720) using the HLP5063's "Expand" mode. I like the digital connection and haven't tried VGA (analog).

Do you ever use your HTPC to view DVD? If so, how is the quality?

Originally posted by KenLand
Sorry HT,

Well, it is a sweet place to live :)

It's true that I once got accused of working for TI here for being too enthusiastic about Sammy DLP's.

I think its safe to say now that the thin tabletop form is such a phenomenon that I was justified. The DLP engine is as sharp and clear as the day I calibrated it.

I've been waiting for the 1080P + better blacks and dithering to make it worth an upgrade. Although I'll keep my 507 and put the 1080P in our living room.

Ken


Ken,

I remember you saying you were very impressed by JVC's 1080P LCOS at CES. Are you now thinking about getting the Samsung 1080P instead? What were your thoughts when you compared both at CES. I will be purchasing a 61 inch 1080p and I was going to decided between the JVC and Samsung. Your thoughts are appreciated.

Originally posted by JONNY_P
Do you ever use your HTPC to view DVD? If so, how is the quality?
I'm using the PC for regular computer activities. When it's connected to the HLP5063 it's used with latest TheaterTek software DVD player . I think it's outstanding and helped me justify buying a new higher end computer. :rolleyes:

In time I may use the HTPC and TheaterTek as a PVR/player for HDTV.

Sorry jkv4, that wasn't me. There is a Ken L I see posting. Maybe it was him?

In a previous life (kid out of college) I happened to share the same name as my NASA division chief. I would get really interesting phone calls in the middle of the night during shuttle missions. (most of the time I wouldn't let them talk too too long - honest! :) )

Ken

Iceblade, I haven't set down and made a table to keep track of which sets have which chips and don't know about the older sets, but at least the new HLRxx64 series is supposed to have the gm1501 chip in it. Looking at this TABLE (http://www.gnss.com/lcd_summary.phtml) from Genesis, the only difference between the chips is the resolution they will handle. The gm1501 handles sxga (1280x1024), while the gm1601 handles wuxga (1920x1200).

The internal pictures from the FCC website shows a gm1601 chip in the HLR5688 (1920x1080) set. I guess we will have to wait until they are out before we know what they will really do. :(

Hello everyone,

Since I'm new to the forum and want to make sure I didn't miss anything in the 88 pages, I'd like to summarize the new Samsung HLRs. Please let me know if I'm wrong or missing a model. Thanks.

HLRxx
-66W = floating screen, 720p, no tuner
-67W = floating screen, 720p
-68W = floating screen, 1080p
-77W = thin bezel, 720p
-78W = black lacquer bezel, 1080p
-87W = pedestal, 720p
-88W = pedestal, 1080p

First time HDTV purchase and am curious...why does the HLR5067W model only have one HDMI input and no DVI input? The HLP5063W model has two HDMI inputs...why the change? Does this mean the user has to choose which source (i.e. HDTV or DVD) uses the HDMI input and which uses a component input. If I have that correct, is this an issue for PQ?

Sure do wish the 68W came in a 50 inch model. Space limitations are an issue and I am not in love with the black laquer bezel on the 78W model...too shiny!

uiucsb, that's a good summary, but you might want to keep in mind that post #1 is kept up to date by UCSB. Virtually everything that is known about the new HLR sets is in post #1. As more information becomes available it is updated. :)

any advantage of waiting for HLW models?

Of course there is! However you might want to be able to watch something between now and 2020. :D

Originally posted by JDBull
...why does the HLR5067W model only have one HDMI input and no DVI input?

The best theory I've read is that the HLRxx67 sets are the same basic design as the HLPxx63 except that the HD tuner and cablecard have been added. The DVI input was probably used for cablecard.

The HLP5063W model has two HDMI inputs...

The HLPxx63 sets have one HDMI and one DVI port. The 1080p HLRxx68 and HLRxx78 sets are supposed to have HD tuners and cablecards with two HDMI ports. They have redesigned internals and will sell in a higher price range than the 720p sets.

Does this mean the user has to choose which source (i.e. HDTV or DVD) uses the HDMI input and which uses a component input.

I have a Comcast cable attached to my HLP5063's HDMI port and a HTPC attached to DVI. If I were to switch to a HLRxx67 model I would not need a port for Comcast due to the CableCard and HDTV tuner. I would still be able to attach my HTPC to the only HDMI port. Other setups that people use would require a HDMI/DVI switch of some kind.

If I have that correct, is this an issue for PQ?

If you used a componet input and not a HDMI/DVI switch there would be a difference that would bother some people and not bother others.

Of these new Samsung models, what is the smallest size that will output 1080p? what is it's model number?

Originally posted by fudgebrown
Of these new Samsung models, what is the smallest size that will output 1080p? what is it's model number?
You will find the "best available" information in the first message of this thread. Until the 1080p sets arrive in stores that's the place to look for information.

Originally posted by fudgebrown
Of these new Samsung models, what is the smallest size that will output 1080p? what is it's model number?

HLR5078W ... 50"

Originally posted by jkv4
Ken,

I remember you saying you were very impressed by JVC's 1080P LCOS at CES. Are you now thinking about getting the Samsung 1080P instead? What were your thoughts when you compared both at CES. I will be purchasing a 61 inch 1080p and I was going to decided between the JVC and Samsung. Your thoughts are appreciated.

I think that was Ken Golden on one of the Qualia threads. IIRC, he though the JVC was pretty close in PQ to the 006.

Originally posted by AkaStp
Just one more data point (HL-R4667W)...
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-nCHyGPDbfkg/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=154650&I=305HLR4667

Crutchfield is listing the CR as 2500:1 ... I suspect that this is an error.

Originally posted by schaffer970
uiucsb, that's a good summary, but you might want to keep in mind that post #1 is kept up to date by UCSB. Virtually everything that is known about the new HLR sets is in post #1. As more information becomes available it is updated. :)

schaffer, I think he was aware of that massive first page summary. No offense but that is kind of a mean post to bark at people to not ask questions. Sure some can be answered on the first page but its not the best source. Straight from people's mouth is the best answer. It would take you or anyone just as much time to say look at the first page as to give a simple answer about the product or model. Sorry to say this and I mean no offense but it has been annoying me here. Thank you

Originally posted by htwaits
Does this mean the user has to choose which source (i.e. HDTV or DVD) uses the HDMI input and which uses a component input.

I have a Comcast cable attached to my HLP5063's HDMI port and a HTPC attached to DVI. If I were to switch to a HLRxx67 model I would not need a port for Comcast due to the CableCard and HDTV tuner. I would still be able to attach my HTPC to the only HDMI port. Other setups that people use would require a HDMI/DVI switch of some kind.

My only problem with this is that you are now forced to use the cablecard from Comcast or whoever, right? I might not want to use that if I get a DVR or want to receive On-Demand. But I do love the idea of not have a cable box on my stand.

I apologize if anyone thinks I am barking at them. That is not at all what my intent is. I have a pretty good idea of how much time and effort UCSB has put into keeping post #1 updated and I think people forget that the data there is a compilation of all of the 89 pages that we are at today. This thread is a wonderful source of information and the fact that post #1 keeps you from reading most of the 89 pages I think is an incredible testament to the effort UCSB has put into this forum. :confused:

I'll second that. Subwoofer was the one barking here...IMHO of course...

For those who need HDMI switching, this is good news.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=527652

Not the cheapest receiver, but at least they're integrating it in something below the flagship line. More inputs would be nice (i.e., move the USB ports to the open area on the right), but it's a start.

Originally posted by shrikedoa
I'll second that. Subwoofer was the one barking here...IMHO of course...
I agree. :)

Potentially good news!

I finally got a working link to the HLR5688 1920x1080 Block Diagram (https://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=528328&native_or_pdf=pdf) on the FCC website. Looking at the HDMI input to the set, Samsung is using a Silicon Image chip, the SiI9021 (http://www.siliconimage.com/products/product.aspx?id=19) (go to the Product Brief - upper left for more information), for HDMI input. This is in contrast to using the Genesis Microchip, GM1501 that they had used in the HLP5685 (Block Diagram for HLP5688 (https://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=445159&native_or_pdf=pdf)).

Now as to what all of this means I am not entirely sure. The Silicon Image Product Brief says these HDMI receiver chips will accept 1080p, but at the very end says there is a version of the chip for 1080i and one for 1080p. It seems that if Samsung went to all of the trouble to put in a separate chip from the Genesis Microchip GM1601 (which has the ability to handle the HDMI input itself and is being used for analog computer input) in the HLR5688 to handle HDMI, there must be a fairly good reason.

I am assuming that the electronics in all of the 1080p sets will be similar to that in the HLR5688, so what we see here is likely to be what we see in all of the 1080p sets.

Any comments re this link?

http://www.digitimes.com/displays/a20050407PR202.html

which says...

"DLP RPTVs using TI 1080p chips to hit the market by Christmas

Carrie Yu, DigiTimes.com, Taipei_[Thursday 7 April 2005]

Digital light processing (DLP) rear-projection TVs (RPTVs) using chips from Texas Instruments (TI) supporting 1080p (1920×1080 progressive scan) are expected to be introduced to the market by Christmas, according to John Van Scoter, general manager of TI’s DLP Products business and senior vice president of TI.

Display makers such as Samsung Electronics, Sharp and LG Electronics (LGE) are expected to start marketing the models around the Christmas season, with the models priced at similar levels as 720p models were priced last year, Scoter said.

The 56-inch 1080p model (HLP5688W) Samsung showed at the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) 2005 will be priced at US$5,200, according to a presentation by TI.

About 30% of the total DLP TV chips shipped by TI will go to RPTVs supporting 1080p resolution, Scoter indicated."

No hope of Sammy 1080p sets this summer?

--Ernie

Wow! Christmas now! :(

It would be interesting to know what van Scoter actually said. Apparently he was speaking at the Taiwan FPD International Conference put on by DisplaySearch. Title of his talk: DLP TV Market Trends - Friday April 8, 9:20 to 9:40 am, Taiwan. Here is a link to what is being covered at the conference: Agenda (http://www.displaysearch.com/taiwanfpd/taiwanfpd_agenda.html)

Originally posted by Big Worms
Wow! Christmas now! :(

Whoa! I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. I think TI is just trying to give all of their 1080p customers some breathing room. After all, LG, Sharp and Samsung covers a lot of territory and models.