Originally posted by schaffer970
... to the effort UCSB has put into this forum.

Thanks for the kind words.

Schaffer970 ... a question about the chips in the HLR5688W: have you checked the HLR5688W owners manual carefully to resolve the 1080p issues? Even if the chips support 1080p on the HDMI and component video inputs, if Samsung does not implement or support those features then they will not be available.

I am going to put together a FAQ for POST #1 with your links to the Genesis chip and Silicon Image chip. Personally, all of our data seems to indicate that 1080p will not be available, but I feel that it is the kind of feature that could/should be added to the sets by the time they are released.

What the manual for the HLR5688 says is:

HDMI (High Definition Multimedia Interface) Input jacks (HDMI In 1)
Connect to the HDMI jack of a device with HDMI output. (not compatible with PC)

Obviously a bad translation. Completely unclear what the (not compatible with PC) means as I don't think there is any question that the HDMI port will accept certain PC HDMI output (just a question of what resolutions and frequencies). The manual goes to great pains to show how to hook-up a PC through the VGA port and is clear that 1920x1080 60Hz will work through that port.

Originally posted by ErnieW

"DLP RPTVs using TI 1080p chips to hit the market by Christmas


The 56-inch 1080p model (HLP5688W) Samsung showed at the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) 2005 will be priced at US$5,200, according to a presentation by TI.

About 30% of the total DLP TV chips shipped by TI will go to RPTVs supporting 1080p resolution, Scoter indicated."

No hope of Sammy 1080p sets this summer?

--Ernie

Wow Xmas and going for $5200.....thats a bit much and far away. I might just have to go for a 720p since 1080 is overkill in my opinion. Anyone else thinking this?

Originally posted by subwoofer
Wow Xmas and going for $5200.....thats a bit much and far away. I might just have to go for a 720p since 1080 is overkill in my opinion. Anyone else thinking this?
Yup... 8 months is way too long to go with no HD. And $5,200 is way more than i'd ever pay for a TV set... no matter how high the res. This seals the deal on me getting a 720p set. Think im going to go check out the Panasonic again this weekend. Its one ugly SOB but has a great picture.

Originally posted by subwoofer
Wow Xmas and going for $5200.....
Samsung announced HLR5688W pricing at CES in a press release as $4,999. The $5,200 number is an error.

Yup... 8 months is way too long to go with no HD. And $5,200 is way more than i'd ever pay for a TV set... no matter how high the res. This seals the deal on me getting a 720p set. Think im going to go check out the Panasonic again this weekend. Its one ugly SOB but has a great picture.

There is just way to many unknowns as far as release dates and prices go. I'm still holding out to june time frame to see what is out then or updated prices. I'm willing to wait as long as the end of summer for when the new tv seasons start. But any longer than that probably won't happen.

Originally posted by JDBull
First time HDTV purchase and am curious...why does the HLR5067W model only have one HDMI input and no DVI input? The HLP5063W model has two HDMI inputs...why the change? Does this mean the user has to choose which source (i.e. HDTV or DVD) uses the HDMI input and which uses a component input. If I have that correct, is this an issue for PQ?

Sure do wish the 68W came in a 50 inch model. Space limitations are an issue and I am not in love with the black laquer bezel on the 78W model...too shiny!

On the HDMI port, I think it depends. If I have a DVD player connected to the HDMI port, I think I can connect my Comcast cable DVR box to the HLRxx67's firewire port, right?

HLR4266 Is Up On The Samsung Site

It looks like Samsung just put the HLR4266 up on their site. The Product Brochure (http://product.samsung.com/SamsungUSA/PRODUCT/20050408/HLR4266W4667W5067W5667W6167W.PDF) includes all of the new 720 sets.

Originally posted by schaffer970
[B]HLR4266 Is Up On The Samsung Site

With the product brochure claiming a CR of 2500:1 it's almost got to be an improved HD3 which we can all call the HD4. ;)

Either that or Samsung is getting better at doing light engines.

How does the 42" model not have a super fine pitch screen like the larger 66 models if it has the same 1280x720p resolution?

I have made two changes to POST #1:

1. Changed the 720p HLRxx67W series contrast ratio to read UP TO 2500:1. This is an improvement from the 2000:1 communicated at CES.

2. Added a link in the HLRxx67W series section to the new Samsung HLRxx67W Series Brochure. This is an excellent document to review if you are interested in the 67 series.

Ok, I get about 5 seconds of gloating. In the product brochure, Samsung says the HLRxx67 sets have the "Next generation DLP chips" and go on to say that the chips have switching speeds twice as fast as previous generations. This was one of the things (Fast Track Pixel) I said we should look for (see post #1, FAQ #16) when the HD4 chips came out. I'm a bit surprised that they didn't say anything about darkchip3 but I am sure that is part of how they are getting the increased CR. Anyway, it looks like we finally have the HD4 chips and it will be interesting to see how they perform.

Originally posted by schaffer970
Ok, I get about 5 seconds of gloating. In the product brochure, Samsung says the HLRxx67 sets have the "Next generation DLP chips" and go on to say that the chips have switching speeds twice as fast as previous generations. This was one of the things (Fast Track Pixel) I said we should look for (see post #1, FAQ #16) when the HD4 chips came out. I'm a bit surprised that they didn't say anything about darkchip3 but I am sure that is part of how they are getting the increased CR. Anyway, it looks like we finally have the HD4 chips and it will be interesting to see how they perform.

I agree with your analysis. I've changed POST #1 67 series spec to read:

DLP Chip: per Samsung, New Generation 720p (HD4 --- confirmed from Samsung HLRxx67W brochure below --- TI has not shared the actually naming convention, so we are using HD4 to denote the next 720p chip after HD3)

I wonder if the faster switching speed will be used to make the picture less soft?

Now if only your 1080p input analysis is correct!

Will the HD4 chip be smooth like the HD3 or digital looking like the xHD2?

Originally posted by subwoofer
Will the HD4 chip be smooth like the HD3 or digital looking like the xHD2?

Since we haven't seen the new 720p sets, I don't think that anyone knows if it will be more HD3 or HD2+ like. My expectation was that they would be more HD3 like, but remember HLPxx63W were the first generation of HD3 chips and may not have realized their full potential. Maybe I'm just an optimist, but I'm expecting a narrowing of the difference between HD2+ and HD4.

I have just added a link to the HLR4266W model in POST#1 (67 series section) that takes you to the samsungusa.com web page for the model.

UCSB, I have some hope for the 1080p, but that's one we will really have to see about. There's a bunch of things I still don't completely understand about HDMI and what will or will not work (it seems like there is a lot of marketing hype with little information about HDMI 1080p).

subwoofer, the HD4 chip is still a wobulated chip, so I expect that it will still have the "more film like" look rather than the more digital look of the HD2+.

I think this is one of those things thats going to down to one of the great quotes by Yogi Berra "You can see a lot by looking" :D

So de we have actual confirmation on when the TV"S will be out in the market. The wife is killing me on buying a TV and I really want HLR5067W

Originally posted by kirali
So de we have actual confirmation on when the TV"S will be out in the market. The wife is killing me on buying a TV and I really want HLR5067W
You will know when TVA posts that they have arrival dates and they start filling power buy orders. :)

Just wanted to take a minute to say thanks to USCB and all the others providing information in this thread.

I havent taken a look at post 1 in a while, (thread was < 5 pages at the time) and just came back today. WOW!

Thanks for all the work!

If Samsung has IEEE 1394 ports that actually work look for constant everyday bashing by the MPAA brigade and their allies--the PR departments of other models that don't include IEEE1394!

Originally posted by Artwood
If Samsung has IEEE 1394 ports that actually work look for constant everyday bashing by the MPAA brigade and their allies--the PR departments of other models that don't include IEEE1394!
OK?? But, per Akastp's question - How the heck are they intended to be used?... I'd assumed audio. Does anyone know?

Originally posted by AkaStp
The new HLR4266 listing contains many of the same errors that we've pointed out to them before. For example: it states a 6-segment color wheel and having a DVI port. Somebody needs to proof read their stuff.

Not sure what you mean. The product brochure Schaffer970 referenced says the 4266 has a 7 segment color wheel and a DVI audio port.

John

Originally posted by AkaStp
I'm a bit confused. The HL-Pxx67 was only just released about a month ago and is still not generally available. Now the HL-Rxx67 is supposedly going to be available within the next month. Why would Samsung release two such similar models so close to each other? How to choose between the two?
The HLPxx67 will be exactly like the HLPxx63 except it will have a HD tune and cablecard. It will not have a digital DVI video input. It's contrast ratio will be 1500:1 just like the HLPxx63 sets.

The HLRxx67 will have an improved HD3 (HD4?) chip with a significant speed increase. The contrast ratio for the HLR sets will be 2500:1.

I don't think any of us know what Samsung's strategy was, is, or will be. :)

Maybe it's just a quick and cheap way to meet the requirement to have half their big screen TV's in HD tuner compliance by July this year.

At the same price or close to the same price it would be an easy choice to get the HLR but it's always wise to look and then close your eyes before you leap. :p

Only time can till what these models will bring us all.... :)

The one thing I have been hearing is a few people asking "where the speakers are on the new HLR models??"
Which is the intention of this design from Samsung to "bring more attention to the screen" and it is appearantly working! lol...
I'm big into the looks of the HLR models, and very appreciative of the pedestal models as well. Those HLPxx63W models just don't appeal to me as much "look wise" since I like a TV to make a statement ;)

Two thumbs up the Samsung on the latest "life style" designs!


Cambryn

Originally posted by donb1948
OK?? But, per Akastp's question - How the heck are they intended to be used?... I'd assumed audio. Does anyone know?

1394 is a two way input / output specification. On the output side, you could send the signal (video & audio,including HD) from the HDTV to a HD recorder, HD Tivo, or PC and record it. You can play the recorded signal back on the HDTV. Using 1394 to input a signal to the HDTV will allow you to connect to external DVR's, HD Cable boxes, and other devices.

Currently, 1394 is really favored by people trying to record HD on D-VHS. It is one of the few ways to easily record and then play back HD.

Another relatively popular use is to connect the HDTV to your PC. The PC can be used to record and play HD, for example.

Devices connected via 1394 can send control codes to each other to work together. For example, an external recorder could tell the HDTV to tune in a specific HD channel that the recorder is going to record.

Originally posted by AkaStp
They describe the chip as fifth generation. The HD3 was the third generation (see HLPxx63 specs). Which was the fourth generation, the HD2+?

The fifth generation refers to the Samsung light engine not the DLP chip. HLM - 1st, HLN - 2nd, HLP - 3rd, HLPxx85 4th and newest HLRs - 5th. What exactly is the difference, I have no idea. Maybe someone else will know. :)

Also, I am unclear about what IEEE 1394 ports are for. Will I eventually be able to hook up a D* or Comcast HD Receiver and/or a HD or Upconvert DVD player using such a connection rather than component or DVI or HDMI?

It is my understanding that the 1394 ports will work with some of the STBs. I think I have read however, that the on-screen menus don't work (you get the picture from the channel selected but you won't get guide menus). As UCSB said most people are using them for recording to D-VHS.

Here is what the manual says about g-link:

If you are using a cable box, the TV Guide On ScreenTM system needs to be able to change channels on your cable box to download program listings when the TV is not in use. Please connect the supplied G-LINKTM cable to the G-LINKTM jack of the TV. After you connect the G-LINKTM cable you will be able to control your cable box using the TV’s remote. (Refer to the TV Guide On ScreenTM Quick Setup Sheet for further information on G-LINKTM.)

I think g-link is a little infrared transmitter that turns on the STB so the TV can get the TV Guide information and then will also let you use the Samsung remote to control your STB. At least that is what I get out of the above.

Posted as new thread as well, sorry, too many browser windows open;-(

Did I miss the boat. I have been looking at the 5085 and 4674s. Not sure I can fit the 5085 w pedestal. Wanted them because they had hd2+ and VGA input. Well the 4674 is gone, replaced by 4677. 5085s are in short supply.

Want a hd2+, don't want the 1080p, 720p will do just fine! But I need computer input. Can be regular analog VGA or can be digital.

Have looked at the manual for the 4677, but can't find if it will take a computer input. have been reading the posts, but did not see a definite, except recent posts on HLRxxx78s.

Can anyone let me know if I can get HD2+ w computer input?

Originally posted by jbinbi
Did I miss the boat. I have been looking at the 5085 and 4674s. Wanted them because they had hd2+ and VGA input. Well the 4674 is gone, replaced by 4677...

Have looked at the manual for the 4677, but can't find if it will take a computer input. have been reading the posts, but did not see a definite, except recent posts on HLRxxx78s.

Can anyone let me know if I can get HD2+ w computer input? I am also interested in tthe 4674 and found that some retailers still have have them in stock. I know that Sound Advice (divison of Tweeter) in Florida does. Tweeter.com and onecall.com also shows it in stock. As far as the PC input, I don't see any reason why the HDMI port wont work with a PC using DVI. The problem is that the new 4677 only has one digital input. Good luck.

Jay

Texas Instruments stated in the Wall Street Journal today that the 1920 x 1080 chips have been fully qualified and are in full production. The article also states they should be at retailers in July. Mitsubishi will announce 5 new 1080P models in Orlando today, ranging in size from 52" to 72". TI is calling the new 1080P chips DarkChip3 (TM). They claim a 20% to 40% improvement in contrast over DarkChip2 (TM), allowing customers to achieve contrast ratios well above 5000:1.

Originally posted by UCSB
1394 is a two way input / output specification. ...
UCSB... thanks for the excellent, to-the-point synopsis of IEEE1394 usage. I know I could have (and, probably should have) looked it up myself but what's the point of these forums if not to have folks, who have already put the effort into understanding something, share that knowledge with the less fortunate. :)

Originally posted by vandu
Texas Instruments stated in the Wall Street Journal today that the 1920 x 1080 chips have been fully qualified and are in full production. The article also states they should be at retailers in July. Mitsubishi will announce 5 new 1080P models in Orlando today, ranging in size from 52" to 72". TI is calling the new 1080P chips DarkChip3 (TM). They claim a 20% to 40% improvement in contrast over DarkChip2 (TM).

So would these be considered xHD4 chips using the old style naming?

Here is a link to the TI announcement 1080p DLP(TM) TV Technology in Volume Production and Shipment; Quantity 1080p Shipment Is Milestone for Large-Screen HDTV Industry (http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/04-11-2005/0003383361&EDATE=)

UCSB, you had asked I wonder if the faster switching speed will be used to make the picture less soft?

I think the third * in the announcement about DynamicBlack partly answers your question. I don't know that the picture will be "less soft", but it will definitely be "better".

Apparently TI is making up for the "Christmas " statement made last week. Some of you may remember that TI said on 1/27/05 that "TI: 1080p DLP chips ready for mass production, touts DLP technology" as reported at digitimes.

Originally posted by aaronwt
So would these be considered xHD4 chips using the old style naming?

Yes. If your are interested, you might want to look at my analysis of this silliness in post #1, FAQ Question 16. :)

Looks like they are messing with their website. I've noticed several half completed items on their website lately.

Don't all sets 36" and larger have to include an ATSC tuner this year?

Yes, 7/1/05 all sets 36" and over.

So, will there be no xHD3 chips in any of the 1080p DLPs this year, just xHD4s?

It is my assumption that there will be no sets actually built and sold that have the xHD3 chip in them. What I think happened is that engineering moved faster (a first?), than sales did. By moving the 1080p sets out a year, sales of 720 machines continued a year longer at reasonable prices. Or it is possible that the xHD3 sets just were not up to snuff.

don't knock engineers man :)

Originally posted by schaffer970
It is my assumption that there will be no sets actually built and sold that have the xHD3 chip in them. What I think happened is that engineering moved faster (a first?), than sales did. By moving the 1080p sets out a year, sales of 720 machines continued a year longer at reasonable prices. Or it is possible that the xHD3 sets just were not up to snuff.


So this is confirmed that the 1080p sets are not the wobulated chips? If this is the case than the 1080p sets everyone saw at CES 2005 will not be the same sets that ship in July?

No. The xHD4 (and it will not be called that) is also a wobulated chip. There have been changes made to the underlying structure of the xHD3 chip that now makes it the xHD4. To date no one has seen a non-wobbulated 1920x1080 DMD for anything other than 3-chip theater projectors.

subwoofer, I are one. :D

Originally posted by schaffer970
No. The xHD4 (and it will not be called that) is also a wobulated chip. There have been changes made to the underlying structure of the xHD3 chip that now makes it the xHD4. To date no one has seen a non-wobbulated 1920x1080 DMD for anything other than 3-chip theater projectors.

subwoofer, I are one. :D


Thanks for the clarification. I guess my statement about the 1080P sets that were seen at CES 2005 are not going to be the same that ship in July is still correct?

I would presume that the chips in the sets at CES were preproduction chips and are the chips that will be in the sets now.

And if we're lucky, the manufacturers met with TI engineers to make the new 1080p DLPs look as good as the TI demo. One can only hope.

I happen to find myself in Orlando. Does anyone know where Mitsubishi announced the new sets and if the meeting is still going on?

just was at Tweeter and they didn't have any dates for the HLR models, 720p or 1080p. I just don't think these guys knew what they were talking about but then at some points, they did.

I also wasn't very happy with the picture of the HLP5674w and I didn't care for the price either. Someone PM me for details.

Also, (this is why I am posting here because I like the HLR tvs), the guy said a 50" is too big for my tv room where I would be sitting 7 to 9 feet away. What do you think? Because I feel like the HLR5067w has my name written all over it :)

It definitely wouldn't be too big. That would be the perfect distance for me for a 50" set. I sit at 11feet for my 57" set and I could easily watch a 65" at the same distance. When I get my 61", 62", or 67" 1080P set later this year, I will keep the same 11ft viewing distance.

I was sitting 9-ish feet away from my Philips 55" and it was no problem (except when I got tired which could also be the result of no back-lighting behind the set).

I'm considering the 61" Samsung 6168 with the same sitting distance.

I sent an email to TI to help me understand the DLP chip nomenclature. This is the response I received.

“DarkChip2 is used in our second and third generation of DLP chips (which we used to refer to as HD2+, and HD3/xHD3). We no longer use the HD nomenclature due to confusion in the marketplace and now name chips based on resolution and chip diagonal (Ex: HD2+ is .8 720p DLP; xHD3 is .85 1080p DLP).

DarkChip3 is a feature offered in the latest generation of DLP TV chips: .55 720p and .85 1080p. These new devices are being shipped to customers.”

I sit 7-8 feet from my 50 and it's too small... will be going to a 56/57 next time.

vandu, as a new member, you clearly don't understand how things work here. Typically, we conjecture, theorize, debate, make things up, and generally carry on. But the very idea of sending an email and asking a question of those who are most likely to know something...NEVER! :D

Welcome to this thread and thanks for the information! I know I appreciate getting real answers and hope you continue to add to the discussion. Keep up the good work!

AkaStp, you had a question about Samsung messing with their website today. It just occurred to me that Samsung doesn't have FCC approval for all the HLRxx67 models (FCC approval went up today for the 46 & 56 models). I don't think a manufacturer can advertise a product until they have FCC approval. That may explain why the 66 went down today (as it linked to the brochure with the 67s on it). Just a thought.

UCSB, here is a link to the owners manual for the HLR5087 (I don't see a link in post #1) http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/200504/20050411213628609_BP68-00448A-01Eng_book.pdf

As of this evening on the global download site there are manuals for:

HLR4266
HLR4677
HLR5067
HLR5087
HLR5677

I think you have all except the 87. :)

Originally posted by schaffer970
UCSB, here is a link to the owners manual for the HLR5087 (I don't see a link in post #1) http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/200504/20050411213628609_BP68-00448A-01Eng_book.pdf

As of this evening on the global download site there are manuals for:

HLR4266
HLR4677
HLR5067
HLR5087
HLR5677

I think you have all except the 87. :)

Thanks ... I'll add the link. On the cover of the manual, it lists a HLR5687W. This is a model that we haven't seen before. Should I add it to POST #1?

The link to the HLRxx87W manual has been added to the 87 series section of POST #1.

I've added the HLR5687W to the 87 series section as a POSSIBLE model. If anyone has any information on this model (will exist, will not exist), please post.

I've added the following FAQ #18 to POST #1:

18. What information is available on the video processing chips in the new HLRxxxxW models? Links supplied by Schaffer970 (AVSforum Member)
Schaffer970's careful inspection of a FCC certification filing found that the new HDTV's are using these chips:
1080p Video Processing: Genesis GM1601 (http://www.gnss.com/products/gm1601.phtml)
720p Video Processing: Genesis GM1501

What are your observations of the set, Pro and Con?
(ie game lag, rainbows, fan noise, warm-up time, bulb-life, dim, unsaturated colors, lack of inputs, etc...)

I may have to buy this set sight-unseen since its availability is very limited.

Why is this set so scarce?

Is there another set I should be considering? (that meet the following constraints)

The HLR5667W is only 52.40" inches wide. Do ya think 5/100ths" on each side would be cutting it too close? ;-)

I have a cabinet with an open-back with the following dimensions:

56.25" H
52.50" W (front)
44.50" W (back)
17.00" D

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&attachmentid=35818

Originally posted by CaveCanem
Why is this set so scarce?
It isn't in stores yet. That might be one reason. ;)

HTwaits,

TVA said they already had them in stock. Are they the only ones?

When do believe they will filter into the B&Ms?

Thx

Originally posted by CaveCanem
TVA said they already had them in stock. Are they the only ones?

Have they shipped any yet? I must have missed it.

When do believe they will filter into the B&Ms?

When someone sees one and reports it here. :D

Originally posted by CaveCanem
Why is this set so scarce?


If you can find the HLP5674W, the picture should be almost identical to the HLR5677W.

Also, do you realize that the HLRxx77W is 18.1" deep. That extra inch of depth can stick out the back of your cabinet, but you should realize that the TV is deeper than your cabinet.

Originally posted by CaveCanem
Why is this set so scarce?
According to Steve Panosian from Samsung, a very limited quantity of the 77 Series will be built.

They may not show up in the B&Ms. It depends on how many they end up making.

On the goodguys.com website, they say they have the 46 and 5677Ws in stock. I haven't been to the actual store, so I don't know if they are availible for just for the online crowd. Below are found on their webpage only to show that a physical store has the 77Ws on their website.

HL-R4677W Usually ships in 24-48 hours!
HL-R5677W Usually ships in 24-48 hours!

Originally posted by uiucsb
Below are the listings from their webpage.
You can use the "edit" button to modify your message so that it doesn't violate forum rules. :)

Special Posting Rules For This Area (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=482944)

I don't get why people would go for the xx77 or xx74 when they could hold off a month or two for the HLRxx67w

Originally posted by subwoofer
I don't get why people would go for the xx77 or xx74 when they could hold off a month or two for the HLRxx67w
Some people like the HD2+ and the Ultra Thin Bezel and the 2 digital inputs better...

Originally posted by AkaStp
Perhaps because some people prefer the sharper picture of a HD2+ rather than a HD3?
It will be interesting to see how the HLRxx67 sets compare to the HLRxx77 if the "77" is around long enough. The HLRxx67's improved "DarkChip3" (HD4) chip might have a better 3D look given it's higher CR.

Originally posted by htwaits
The HLPxx67's improved "Dark Chip 3" (HD4) chip might have a better 3D look given it's higher CR.
I believe it's the HLRxx67 that will use the new chip. The HLPxx67 still uses the HD3 chip.

Originally posted by Administrator
I believe it's the HLRxx67 that will use the new chip. The HLPxx67 still uses the HD3 chip.
I produced two consecutive typos:) in the same message. :rolleyes:

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. ;)

Thanks.

Originally posted by AkaStp
Perhaps because some people prefer the sharper picture of a HD2+ rather than a HD3?

I guess that is really the only reason that I can see too. But I wasn't able to see a huge difference between the two chips last night at Tweeter (the 5674w and the 4663).

So I finally have decided that my TV will be the HLR5067.

Now here is what I like to do...please let me know if it is possible:

1. Connect my comcast HD service using DVI.
2. Connect My regular non HD Direct TV (Directv wants like $300 to buy the HD Satellite and receiver)
3. Connect my XBOX
4. Connect My DVD player ( I am looking into purchasing a high end DVD player)

Can I do this??

Originally posted by kirali
So I finally have decided that my TV will be the HLR5067.

Now here is what I like to do...please let me know if it is possible:

1. Connect my comcast HD service using DVI.
2. Connect My regular non HD Direct TV (Directv wants like $300 to buy the HD Satellite and receiver)
3. Connect my XBOX
4. Connect My DVD player ( I am looking into purchasing a high end DVD player)

Can I do this??

Certainly. You should download the owners manual from Samsung and look at the rear panel. Xbox would probably go in the side connector when in use.

Originally posted by AkaStp
You're not so perfect yourself....

Truer words were never "spoked". :(

Just in case there is a misunderstanding.

In the message that Administrator quoted, I wrote HLP when I meant HLR, and Administrator was kind enough to let me know.

His help saved me from unintentionally spreading confusing and inaccurate information. I was letting him know that I appreciated the help. I also corrected the original message.

UCSB

Unfortunately, the only reason that I am considering the 77 over the 67 is that it fits in the cabinet, but at $500 more for a TV with an older chip, smaller cabinet, and fewer inputs; I am having a tough time convincing myself.

Why is the 77 $500 more expensive than the 67 at TVA? (They both have an MSRP of $3499)

The cabinet's open back should allow for the 77's extra 1.2" D, and it sits diagonally in the corner for ample air circulation.

What is the chance of squeezing a 52.4" 67 into this 52.5" Cabinet?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&attachmentid=35818

How has the reliability been for the Samsung sets? (Any way around purchasing an extended warranty, but still getting extended coverage.)

Any other brands or models that I should take into consideration? (ie fits into the above cabinet, in a brightly lit room, with floor-to-ceiling windows, and a 14' viewing distance. Excluding sets with Dumbo ears, speakers on the sides.)

Thanks,

J.T.

Originally posted by CaveCanem
Why is the 77 $500 more expensive than the 67 at TVA? (They both have an MSRP of $3499)
The HD2+ chip and the "Ultra Thin Bezel" on the 77 Series is more expensive to manufacture.

Administrator,

Then why would the MSRPs be Identical?

HD2+, HD3.... where does HD4 chip fit into this picture?

In the TVA powerbuy thread, someone mentioned that the 77 series was more expensive (MSRP) than the HLRxx67 series because the HD2+ chip is a more expensive chip (than the HD4).

Now, at the risk of claiming that more expensive means better...

is that slightly backward since the HD4 seems to be newer?

I know not many people have seen sets with the HD4 in person, but from reading the first post in this thread, I had assumed that the HD4 in the xx67s was meant to be the ultimate succesor of the HD2+

Is that incorrect?

I think most conjecture at this point states that the "HD4" (which is NOT a recognized name by TI) is a "wobulated" chip vs. the discrete 720p chip that is the HD2+.

Hope that helps,
Jeff

Ok. Somewhere in reading about DLPs last year, and resuming my DLP research just yesterday, this term "wobulated" seems to have been introduced that I'm not familiar with. :)

(Or maybe I never noticed it before)

Is it just a term that is meant to describe the more film-like quality of HD3 produced pictures? or is it more technical than that?

And why is 'wobulated' in contrast to true 720p?

Originally posted by CaveCanem
Administrator,

Then why would the MSRPs be Identical?
The MSRP is the same probably because that's the price Samsung needs to be at for a 56" 720p set right now...

The fact is, Samsung is making more of a profit on the HLR5667 then the HLR5677. For that reason, the 67 can be discounted more then the 77 can.

Originally posted by tanzbodeli
HD2+, HD3.... where does HD4 chip fit into this picture?

In the TVA powerbuy thread, someone mentioned that the 77 series was more expensive (MSRP) than the HLRxx67 series because the HD2+ chip is a more expensive chip (than the HD4).
The HD3 "wobulated" chip uses one mirror to control two pixels on the screen. It is a much smaller chip than the HD2+ which uses one mirror on the chip to control one pixel on the screen.

The HD3 chip is cheaper to produce than the HD2+ chip.

The chip we refer to as the HD4 and TI refers to as having DarkChip3 technology is an improved (CR and speed) HD3 chip.

You really need to dig up the in-depth discussion on wobulation. I think Mr. Wiggles was the author... but don't quote me on that.

Basically the gist is that "wobulation" uses a diamond pixel pattern where each mirror on the chip is resposible for half of an adjacent pixel. With the non-wobulated version, the pixels are in a square orientation and are 1:1 with regards to a mirror for every pixel.

My term for "wobulation" is "blur vision". Alot of people prefer that "film like effect". I prefer a crisper pic, hence I like the 1:1 of the Hd2+. If you dig wobulated 720p.. head towards the xx63 series or I believe the xx67 series. If you like sharper, crisper pic... head to the xx74 or xx85 series. If 1080p is your tower of ivory... well, you are in the right thread and until the darn things hit the market... no one will know.

Regs,
Jeff

Originally posted by tanzbodeli
And why is 'wobulated' in contrast to true 720p?
See above for highly technical information. ;)

The image on the screen is "true" 720p (1280x720 pixels) in either case.

Originally posted by CaveCanem
UCSB

Unfortunately, the only reason that I am considering the 77 over the 67 is that it fits in the cabinet, but at $500 more for a TV with an older chip, smaller cabinet, and fewer inputs; I am having a tough time convincing myself.

Why is the 77 $500 more expensive than the 67 at TVA? (They both have an MSRP of $3499)

>>> I don't know for sure. My guess is supply and demand. The 67 series is going to be a high volume product line. TVA can probably get as many of these as they can sell. It is our current understanding that the number of 77's will be limited. 74 series units (which have the same cabinet and chip in the 77) have been discounted in the past.
>>> The 67 series was designed for the current price environment, the 77 is really based on a HLN 2003 unit that was created for a different price environment (56" = $5000). So Administrators comments, that the fit, finish and components are more costly could account for some of the difference. I own a HLN set and the cabinet is much nicer than then the higher volume 63 series.

The cabinet's open back should allow for the 77's extra 1.2" D, and it sits diagonally in the corner for ample air circulation.

What is the chance of squeezing a 52.4" 67 into this 52.5" Cabinet?

>>> If your measurements and the 67 specs are both correct, it will work. I would take my cabinet measurements carefully. The TV angles back, so only the first couple inchs of the bezel will be a tight fit. You will lose access to the side inputs. Side buttons will need to clear and you will have to control the TV via remote.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&attachmentid=35818

How has the reliability been for the Samsung sets? (Any way around purchasing an extended warranty, but still getting extended coverage.)

>>> Reliability has been good, but not perfect. These TV's fail. My HLN is more than a year and a half old and has been flawless. No way to get extra warranty coverage without paying for it ... outside of charging the purchase on a credit card that extends warranty for up to a year. In the past, Samsung has given you an additional 3 months of warranty coverage when you register your HDTV.

Any other brands or models that I should take into consideration? (ie fits into the above cabinet, in a brightly lit room, with floor-to-ceiling windows, and a 14' viewing distance. Excluding sets with Dumbo ears, speakers on the sides.)

>>> IMHO, forget about the cabinet. Design your viewing environment from the ground up. If the cabinet fits into the new design, great. If not, drop it. Tight fitting cabinets usually don't have room for a sensible and attractive speaker and component setup. At 14', you could move up to a larger set if you weren't limited by the cabinet.

Thanks,

J.T.

Wouldn't "true" (1280x720) be able to put up 921,600 pixels all at once?

Originally posted by rlii
Wouldn't "true" (1280x720) be able to put up 921,600 pixels all at once?

Yes ... and all of these 720p units will display true 1280x720.

How will they accomplish that with only 460,800 actual pixels? Isn't it physically impossible to show two different things at the same time with only one pixel?

A sample of wobulation can be seen if you do a google search on wobulation and go to the Popular Science web site. At close ranges the wobulated image looks better on my screen but at a distance the unwobulated image looks slightly better to me.
Does anyone have experience with a comparison of an unwobulated 720P image vs. a wobulated 1080P image at different distances? I assume the wobulated 1080P image looks best at close range but would an unwobulated 720P image look better if you back up far enough?

Originally posted by rlii
How will they accomplish that with only 460,800 actual pixels? Isn't it physically impossible to show two different things at the same time with only one pixel?

If I understand your question, I think you are confusing the mirror with the viewing surface. You don't directly view the mirror. If your response is that all viewable pixels aren't driven at the same time, then you are asking for something that CRTs won't even do.

Or am I way off base?

Originally posted by kjongsma
If I understand your question, I think you are confusing the mirror with the viewing surface. You don't directly view the mirror. If your response is that all viewable pixels aren't driven at the same time, then you are asking for something that CRTs won't even do.

Or am I way off base?

You're not way off base. I know crt's won't do this they don't do alot of things like a fixed pixel display, but it sounds like this "wobulation" thing is basically a cross between fixed pixel and crt technologies (for lack of a better comparison).

Originally posted by kjongsma
Or am I way off base?
I don't think so. :D

Those DLP mirrors move very very fast and the "wobulation" mirror seems to keep up. They make twenty four still images per second on a movie screen look glacial.

Then there are the CRT sets painting half the lines on the screen from top to bottom, and then scurrying back to do the other half.

Of course it's our slow witted brains that make it all possible. :p

To give you an idea of how fast the DMD chips are, TI says "one video frame is 16 milliseconds" in that time the mirror has to switch on, stay on for some period of time and then switch off. The period of time that the mirror is reflecting light into the lens gives the various intensities (gray scale) that you see. I am not sure exactly how many different intensities there are but there are at least 8. So the chip actually has to turn from on to off within 2 milliseconds (if there are more intensities, and I think there may actually be, then the switching time is even faster.

Another item of note, the FCC approved the following sets today:

HLR6164 - DVI, HDMI, PC inputs
HLR6167 - HDMI, PC, CC, 1394

I am not absolutely positive, but I think that gives Samsung approval for all of the HLR 720 sets.

Originally posted by kirali
So I finally have decided that my TV will be the HLR5067.

Now here is what I like to do...please let me know if it is possible:

1. Connect my comcast HD service using DVI.
2. Connect My regular non HD Direct TV (Directv wants like $300 to buy the HD Satellite and receiver)
3. Connect my XBOX
4. Connect My DVD player ( I am looking into purchasing a high end DVD player)

Can I do this??

Wow, I'm glad someone else here is thinking IDENTICAL to myself. I want the exact same thing but change the Xbox for a PS2 now and later a PS3.

How far are you going to be sitting from that 50"?
Where do you plan on getting it?
How much do you want to pay? PM me on this one
and....do you have a stand?

I have friend who loves traditional photography. He likes to use slides because of their very large dynamic range. How come no one talks about dynamic range for each pixel for DLPs or plasmas? Is this just the contrast ratio or is there a difference? Thanks.

I am tempted to purchase a HLP5674W at Costco with the stand for a very reasonable price. I was planning on waiting for an HLR5668W and still think I probably should but will end up paying approx one thousand more if I go that route.

The HLP56+ stand is very close in height to my limiting dimensions (the difference of compression of the carpet pad will make the difference.) and since the HLR is larger by 1.5" I would need to find a stand that is at least 1.5" shorter. I wish they would make a 1080p ina 74 style cabinent.

We mainly watch DVDs and occasional PS2 and Gamecube use. We don't have TV/HDTV reception, I am waiting for HDTV to become more saturated before then, plus it is kinda' nice living without TV. We use an overpriced Bose 321 speaker system (I know, my mother bought it for me for christmas and the desire not to hurt her feelings, the ease of setting the thing up (I hate big ugly speakers and have a very open floor plan, I would want to go with a completely wall / ceiling mounted setup anyways, plus it sounds much better than the TV speakers we had been using) so there isn't much in the line of delay compensation. We have the DVD player inside the 321 box & a Sony 400 disc changer, both of which are component output progressive scan non/upsampling DVD players. With the coming HDVD format wars I would stronglly prefer not having to purchase a new DVD player with HDMI and/or upsampling. Right now PS2, Gamecube and Sony DVD are going through S-Video since I don't have component on my current Direct view TV.

When I get HDTV it will either be through DirecTV or hopefully over the Internet through my DSL provider (Verizon) should that rollout happen in the next 24 months. I believe Verizon's push to provide Fiber to the home will bring TVoIP just as DSL has made VoIP a reality. I will not watch TV without a TiVo/DVR period. My ultimate goal is when I can purchase Terrabyte hard drives for $200 or so, then I can rip all my DVDs and serve them over my LAN to an HTPC. Too bad its illegal but I don't steal movies so I won't feel bad about doing it. Thus I never see myself needing OTA tuners or cable card (at least with its current configuration)

I guess I am trying to get some opinions based on my space limitations and useage habbits whether or not to wait for the 1080p sets or take advantage of a closeout with the wonderful Costco return policy. Thanks in advance. Oh if only I could see a 1080p set in order to decide whether it is worth the extra money and time.

wanted hd2+ and pc input in 4674, seems can't find many 4674s and price is acutally going up. new 4677 has the right mirror, but no pc input. 4667 has the inputs, but now is late, and i have been waiting for 2 months already to make this decision. Also, who knows what picture quality on hd4 will really be?

Local tweeter said they have a floor model of 4674 w stand for $2400. Will give me free bulb if it burns out for 1 more year as well. 30 day no question asked return as well.

anyone have any experience with floor models? Am worried Samsung will be late(r) on 4667 again, and will have the initial bugs on rollout.

Originally posted by jbinbi
wanted hd2+ and pc input in 4674, seems can't find many 4674s and price is acutally going up. new 4677 has the right mirror, but no pc input. 4667 has the inputs, but now is late, and i have been waiting for 2 months already to make this decision. Also, who knows what picture quality on hd4 will really be?

Local tweeter said they have a floor model of 4674 w stand for $2400. Will give me free bulb if it burns out for 1 more year as well. 30 day no question asked return as well.

anyone have any experience with floor models? Am worried Samsung will be late(r) on 4667 again, and will have the initial bugs on rollout.

Floor models can have a lot of hours on them. I would have them put a new bulb in at time of purchase. You can keep the existing bulb as an emergency backup.

When I compare HDTV's at my local Magnolia, I always factor in how long the TV has been on the floor. I was comparing a Kirk to another set recently and my friend at Magnolia said, "Bill, keep in mind the Kirk has been on the floor for 8 months." TV's can pick up years worth of typical use running for 12 hours a day on the floor.

Originally posted by UCSB
Floor models can have a lot of hours on them. I would have them put a new bulb in at time of purchase. You can keep the existing bulb as an emergency backup.

When I compare HDTV's at my local Magnolia, I always factor in how long the TV has been on the floor. I was comparing a Kirk to another set recently and my friend at Magnolia said, "Bill, keep in mind the Kirk has been on the floor for 8 months." TV's can pick up years worth of typical use running for 12 hours a day on the floor.

Especially if the display has been set to overdrive brightness as many floor models tend to be...

Originally posted by kjongsma
Especially if the display has been set to overdrive brightness as many floor models tend to be...
The bulb is always on at full brightness so for DLP type sets it makes no difference. Lamp hours and the number of on/off cycles make a difference to the lamp and the electronic components.

If you get a new lamp then the components with the shortest life cycle would be the color wheel and the fans.

Originally posted by UCSB
Floor models can have a lot of hours on them. I would have them put a new bulb in at time of purchase. You can keep the existing bulb as an emergency backup. I am looking at buying a HLP4674 floor model from a local shop and asked about getting a new bulb. They said they can't order them for retail sale and that they can only be purchased as part of a service call? Does this make sense? They also stated the bulb is covered by the manufactuers one year warranty. Is this correct? Thanks.

Jay

Originally posted by htwaits
The bulb is always on at full brightness so for DLP type sets it makes no difference. Lamp hours and the number of on/off cycles make a difference to the lamp and the electronic components.

If you get a new lamp then the components with the shortest life cycle would be the color wheel and the fans.

Is that true for the Samsung DLR sets? The way I read the manual (waiting for my set to be delivered), there are two lamp settings. A 100W "normal" setting and a 120W "showroom" setting.

Originally posted by jerndl
I am looking at buying a HLP4674 floor model from a local shop and asked about getting a new bulb. They said they can't order them for retail sale and that they can only be purchased as part of a service call? Does this make sense? They also stated the bulb is covered by the manufactuers one year warranty. Is this correct? Thanks.

Jay
If that's what they say, then show them this website (http://www.samsungparts.com/part_detail.asp?catalog_name=Parts+and+Accessories& category_name=&product_id=BP96-00224J&search_model=HLP4674W)... And ask them to give you an additional $200 off the TV since they can't order the bulb. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by kjongsma
Is that true for the Samsung DLR sets?

It's true for HLM, HLN, and my HLP5063. I don't know about HLR models. I haven't met one yet. ;)

I have the manual for the HLRxx67 sets but I haven't been able to find any lamp wattage settings.

The way I read the manual (waiting for my set to be delivered), there are two lamp settings. A 100W "normal" setting and a 120W "showroom" setting.

Which model is that, and how is it controlled? I would think having two settings would be an advantage for picture quality and black levels depending on the screen size.

In any case, the lamp is always full on at either 100W or 120W. If it makes a difference in bulb life it would be a small difference and wouldn't effect any other aspect of the TV's life span.

I just noticed on the Mitsubishi forum (post # 31) that their 73" 1080p dlp (model 73727, without a built-in DVR) is expected to have a MSRP of $5799. If correct, this is quite a bit better than the $6399 anticipated for Samsung's 70" model (hlr7078), especially considering the size and also Mitsu's usually practice of being higher priced. Could these really be the correct prices?

Originally posted by millerwill
I just noticed on the Mitsubishi forum (post # 31) that their 73" 1080p dlp (model 73727, without a built-in DVR) is expected to have a MSRP of $5799. If correct, this is quite a bit better than the $6399 anticipated for Samsung's 70" model (hlr7078), especially considering the size and also Mitsu's usually practice of being higher priced. Could these really be the correct prices?

Remember we have not seen any official pricing on the HLR7078 ... the $6399 was my best guess given the price of the 67". There was some confusion over the 67" price caused by a probable error in the press release. I still don't see any reason for the huge jump in price between the 61" at $4,500 and 67" and 70". There is no reason why Samsung couldn't at least match the $5,800 price on the Mitsubishi. Perhaps Mitsubishi will establish the price of these larger sets by announcing their price first. With the 6168 priced at $4,500, I would have expected the 67" to be about $5,000 and the 70" to be about $5,500.

Bill, how accurate do you feel the 6168 at $4,500 is? That's MSRP too, can we expect similar discounts off MSRP as we're seeing on the 720p HLR's - or not as much discount - or no discount?

Originally posted by T. Perinne
Bill, how accurate do you feel the 6168 at $4,500 is? That's MSRP too, can we expect similar discounts off MSRP as we're seeing on the 720p HLR's - or not as much discount - or no discount?

I think the $4,500 is accurate for MSRP on the 6168. I don't have a feel for the discounting ... we will just have to wait and see. Certainly, these sets will be discounted like the 720p sets at some point in time. Will that be when they are released? I don't know, but doubt it. The only other data point we have is a comment by a TI exec that indicated that the 1080p sets will be about 30% of sales. That would lead me to believe that they will be discounted.

Originally posted by htwaits The way I read the manual (waiting for my set to be delivered), there are two lamp settings. A 100W "normal" setting and a 120W "showroom" setting.

Which model is that, and how is it controlled? I would think having two settings would be an advantage for picture quality and black levels depending on the screen size.

In any case, the lamp is always full on at either 100W or 120W. If it makes a difference in bulb life it would be a small difference and wouldn't effect any other aspect of the TV's life span.



No - not according to the spec sheet. Couldn't find the Samsung spec sheet, but here's a Mitsui one. Note that running the lamp at 120W cuts the expected life almost in half:

Type UHP 100W / 120W
Typical life (1) 10 000 hours in normal mode, 6 000 hours in bright mode

Originally posted by kjongsma
No - not according to the spec sheet. Couldn't find the Samsung spec sheet,
I've lost track of where we are going. :)

Which Samsung set have you ordered and where in it's manual did you see a 100W/120W option.

I did a quick check in the HLRxx67 manual and didn't find anything about an option to select one of two wattages.

Originally posted by htwaits
I've lost track of where we are going. :)

Which Samsung set have you ordered and where in it's manual did you see a 100W/120W option.

I did a quick check in the HLRxx67 manual and didn't find anything about an option to select one of two wattages.

Sorry... It's difficult to follow conversations within a thread in this software.

Someone was talking earlier about the pros/cons of buying a floor model DLP based set. Someone else said that if you were to consider buying a floor model, you should get a new lamp as 8 months usage as a floor model is equivilent to 12 months (or more) of typical home usage.

I agreed with that assessment, especially as floor models tended to be run in the 120W mode for max brightness under flourescent lighting, instead of the 100W mode which provides the max bulb life.

Samsung calls this selection Picture Mode. If you set Picture Mode to "Dynamic" you are running the bulb at 120W. If you set Picture Mode to "Standard" or "Cinema", the bulb is run at a lower wattage and will last much longer. This is described (somewhat vaguely) on page 54 of the HLRXX67 manual.

Originally posted by kjongsma
Someone was talking earlier about the pros/cons of buying a floor model DLP based set. Someone else said that if you were to consider buying a floor model, you should get a new lamp as 8 months usage as a floor model is equivalent to 12 months (or more of home usage).

I think that's a reference to the the fact that your personal use may be fewer hours per day than the store hours would be. To make it worse there are some stores that never turn their demo sets off.

I agreed with that assessment, especially as floor models tended to be run in the 120W mode for max brightness under flourescent lighting, instead of the 100W mode which provides the max bulb life.

I think you are giving Samsung credit for a feature the may not exist at this time.

Samsung calls this selection Picture Mode. If you set Picture Mode to "Dynamic" you are running the bulb at 120W. If you set Picture Mode to "Standard" or "Cinema", the bulb is run at a lower wattage and will last much longer. This is described (somewhat vaguely) on page 54 of the HLRXX67 manual.

Where did you find the information that "Dynamic mode" required the bulb to run at 120W?

My understanding is that all Dynamic mode does is jack up contrast and brightness which has no effect on the bulb. Page 54 describes the same modes that Samsung DLP sets have had since 2002.

I'm amazed that Mitsubishi thinks that the bulb they use will last "typically" 10,000 hours. That's some bulb. :)

Originally posted by htwaits
I think you are giving Samsung credit for a feature the may not exist at this time.

Well, that's certainly possible. Have been doing lots of reading over the past few weeks and am sure I saw that somewhere, but I can't cite a good reference right now. I have found a number of references to this feature on new Toshiba and Mitsubishi DLPs, so its possible this is new for the Samsung HLR series.

Will just have to wait and check out the actual operation when my HLR arrives in a few weeks.

htwaits, in the product brochure for the HLR4266/HLRxx67 sets that was put up and taken down (its still there, here is a LINK (http://product.samsung.com/SamsungUSA/PRODUCT/20050408/HLR4266W4667W5067W5667W6167W.PDF)), on the last page specifications, under Lamp (standard/dynamic) they list 100w/120w. When I looked at the manual I thought I saw something about being able to set this however you wanted.

Will the new model Mitsubishi DLPs have variable iris or is this a feature just in their new LCD models?

Originally posted by schaffer970
htwaits, in the product brochure for the HLR4266/HLRxx67 sets that was put up and taken down (its still there, here is a LINK (http://product.samsung.com/SamsungUSA/PRODUCT/20050408/HLR4266W4667W5067W5667W6167W.PDF)), on the last page specifications, under Lamp (standard/dynamic) they list 100w/120w. When I looked at the manual I thought I saw something about being able to set this however you wanted.

Thank you! I thought I was going insane when I couldn't find that reference again.

Originally posted by schaffer970
htwaits, in the product brochure for the HLR4266/HLRxx67 sets ... on the last page specifications, under Lamp (standard/dynamic) they list 100w/120w. When I looked at the manual I thought I saw something about being able to set this however you wanted.
The manual, at least page 54 is no different than the older sets. It sounds like Samsung has boosted their showroom floor "blast" capability for the 56" and under sets. :D

I wonder if that means an ISF calibration will still have to be done in Dynamic (120W) mode?

If the 61" set can be calibrated at 100W wouldn't that have a similar effect that a neutral filter would have?

If there are no gotchas it could be a nice feature.

Thanks for the help. :)

Originally posted by htwaits
If there are no gotchas it could be a nice feature.


Absolutely, especially considering the bulb life gain that would come from derating a 120W bulb to 100W.

I guess we can assume that Cinema mode will be 100W too.

I used to change Samsung demos from Dynamic to Standard or Cinema every chance I got. It's harder to find remote controls laying around in our area now. Maybe that's my fault. :rolleyes:

Back in the early days I "think" Samsung listed the 61" (120W) and the other (100W) set's lamp life at the same 8,000 hours. They seem to be more modest now.

I wonder if the HLRxx67's lamp is a 120W bulb that can be run at 100W, or the reverse, and does it make a difference?

Does the wattage of the bulb affect picture quality?

Originally posted by Jon_W
Does the wattage of the bulb affect picture quality?
I understand that it can.

One of the tweaks UMR uses with Sony LCD sets is a neutral filter to cut down on the light from the lamp. I believe it's supposed to improve black levels in a dimly lit room. It seems to me that lowering wattage would have a similar benefit.

In a bright room more wattage would help overcome problem ambient light.

There is probably a lot more to it that I don't know about.

Originally posted by AkaStp
Anyone else?

On page 58 of the HLRxx67W manual it clearly shows how to turn DNIe on and off. This has been a standard feature on all Samsung DLP's that have been released.

EDIT: After looking at the manual a little longer, it is not clear what is going on with DNIe. I suspect that one line in the sample menu has been left out.

ANOTHER EDIT: DNIe is not available for all inputs. The reason that it is not shown may be because the input they used to take the picture does not support DNIe. On the current models the DNIe option is greyed out, but on the new models it may not be displayed.

Originally posted by htwaits
Back in the early days I "think" Samsung listed the 61" (120W) and the other (100W) set's lamp life at the same 8,000 hours. They seem to be more modest now.

I wonder if the HLRxx67's lamp is a 120W bulb that can be run at 100W, or the reverse, and does it make a difference?

I believe that it was 8,000 hours for the 100W lamp and 6,000 hours for the 120W. As to how it's done, it could be a 2 filament bulb (sort of like a three way lamp bulb, except that the filaments won't be able to be "on" simultaneously). Alternatively, it could be just a simple attenuation device to regulate the current going to a single filament.

Or neither. This would be a good time for one of the resident EEs to chime in with the likely probabilities here. :confused:

Originally posted by AkaStp
Previous HLP sets let you choose DNIe On/Off or Demo mode.

Not exactly true. You can specify your settings for each input on existing sets. DNIe is NOT supported on all inputs. On those inputs the menu option is greyed out and as you go down through each menu option the set skips over DNIe if it is greyed out.

If they have a DNIe demo mode with on and off shown, you will be able to turn DNIe on and off. The screen shots were probably just a firmware version still under development.

Originally posted by ninthdragon
I believe that it was 8,000 hours for the 100W lamp and 6,000 hours for the 120W.

It makes sense that your numbers are better than mine.

As to how it's done, it could be a 2 filament bulb (sort of like a three way lamp bulb, except that the filaments won't be able to be "on" simultaneously). ... This would be a good time for one of the resident EEs to chime in with the likely probabilities here. :confused:

I don't think these lamps have filaments, but they use a large voltage to arch across some kind of gap. More "foggy" memories and no energy to search for the right answer. :rolleyes:

I think it will be good for the 61" sets to be able to run them with less lamp-light in low light situations.

htwaits,

I must have had a "senior moment". I'm sure that you are correct about the light source. The answer is in my head somewhere, but, at this hour, I'm having a bit of trouble finding it.

I have the feeling that unless you have direct sunlight streaming onto your screen, the low out-put setting will really help the black levels. I'm getting really anxious to see what these new sets can do. I've got a really good feeling about the new HLRxx68 series. :D

Originally posted by ninthdragon
I must have had a "senior moment". :D
I've had a day of "senior moments". :rolleyes:

Originally posted by AkaStp
Page 58 is how to turn DNR (not DNIe) on/off.
Page 59 is how to turn DNIe **Demo** on/off. There is no apparent way to turn DNIe on/off. Why would they enable DNIe Demo to be turned on/off but not DNIe itself? Previous HLP sets let you choose DNIe On/Off or Demo mode. Of well, I suppose we'll just have to wait and see. Might have to wait untill that 'videobruce' guy posts the service manual for the new models (whenever the manual becomes available).;)

Are the 68 series that much better than the 67s?

The 68 series are 1920x1080, whereas the 67 series are 1280x720 resolution. Those who saw them in person at CES in January said there was considerable difference. The difference comes at a cost so everyone will have to decide whether the difference is worth the cost.

There are two versions of the 67 series manuals posted on the Samsung website. If you go to the Samsung website and open the HL-R5677W page and download the manual from there a different version of the manual comes up. It shows that DNIe can be turned on and off as well as turning the demo on and off. This manual appears to be an older version however (Jan 31 vs. Mar 15).

On the 720p models, "Expand" mode is suppose to result in 1:1 pixel mapping, and only 1.5% overscan. This mode is only available when the set is fed a 720p signal via a digital input.

How will "Expand" mode work on the HLRxx68W/HLRxx78W models? If the HDMI/DVI inputs will not accept 1080p60, will expand mode work with a 1080i input?


John

Originally posted by jpoet
How will "Expand" mode work on the HLRxx68W/HLRxx78W models? If the HDMI/DVI inputs will not accept 1080p60, will expand mode work with a 1080i input?
Someone like Cheezmo will have to test for 1x1 bit map after the 1080p sets are available.

I'm not sure what that means after de-interlacing from 1080i. For that matter, what does it mean starting with 480i from a DVD?

Maybe, in both cases, you are just getting a 1x1 bit map of the final "processed" information.

I have found three retailers online that now claim to be shipping the HL-R5067W. I called one of them and they confirmed that they have 12 units in stock.

Did they know what they were talking about ? I didn't think anyone really had these yet.

plasmahouse.com

and

drprojector.com

Search for hlr5067 in pricegrabber.com and you will also see others.

Originally posted by dhenriks
plasmahouse.com
and
drprojector.com
Search for hlr5067 in pricegrabber.com and you will also see others.
In the cases I've read about where an Internet store claims to have a new model TV ahead of the major B&M dealers, there is always a catch.

You place your order, and after a while, there is a delay. The delay stories from the Internet dealer continue as long as you stay on the hook, or until the set you have ordered is available through normal channels.

Originally posted by AkaStp
Which online retailers claim to have the HL-R5067W?
Are you sure its not the HL-P5067W?

For what its worth, TVAuthority is still projecting an April 20 ship date for my HL-R4667W...

Originally posted by kjongsma
For what its worth, TVAuthority is still projecting an April 20 ship date for my HL-R4667W...
TVA is an authorized Samsung dealer and known to provide the best information available to them. I know of one other for sure -- there may be a few (very few ;) ) more.

I was just about to ask the same thing.......I found 1 retailer with a HLR4667 in stock today (claims to have 3 sets)......thinking of ordering ASAP for a price of $2150 SHIPPED. Whadya guys think?

Originally posted by MrBoost
I was just about to ask the same thing.......I found 1 retailer with a HLR4667 in stock today (claims to have 3 sets)......thinking of ordering ASAP for a price of $2150 SHIPPED. Whadya guys think?

Its easy to compare prices, but you also need to compare support. I've never ordered from TVA before, but enough people have reported their positive experiences with TVA repairs / replacements / returns that I feel comfortable ordering from them.

I'd also be concerned that they were shipping 'P' models for that price and not 'R' models.

If you do decide to order, please report how things go...

Originally posted by MrBoost
I was just about to ask the same thing.......I found 1 retailer with a HLR4667 in stock today (claims to have 3 sets)......thinking of ordering ASAP for a price of $XXXX SHIPPED. Whadya guys think?
Here is a possible outcome that I've seen many times.

You order. They process your order. You wait. You call. Sorry, our inventory was sold before your order was processed. We expect a new shipment in "X" days. You wait. Repeat the above until the pipeline overflows with the new model or you wise up and wait until you see the set you are interested in buying. Then order it from a company known to be reliable.

The above is a just a story. ;)

... but I wouldn't be tempted.

Originally posted by htwaits
Here is a possible outcome that I've seen many times.

You order. They process your order......

... but I wouldn't be tempted.

I actually ended up finding it at a different online retailer for a $100 less!


Afterward however I called my local retailer here in Colorado Springs. They said they are going to have the sets in stock and on display beginning Monday. I'm going to wait through the weekend and go check out the HD4 PQ vs. the HD2+ PQ (side by side hopefully!) before buying.

Yeah, I guess this afternoon I just saw the low prices and got a 'lil excited.. :D

Originally posted by MrBoost
Afterward however I called my local retailer here in Colorado Springs. They said they are going to have the sets in stock and on display beginning Monday.
Now that's real news. The flood has started. :D

Originally posted by MrBoost
Afterward however I called my local retailer here in Colorado Springs. They said they are going to have the sets in stock and on display beginning Monday.

Would like to know what they go for locally. Please PM me when you find out?

Magnolia HiFi here in the San Francisco Bay area is still expecting the HLRxx67W's in MAY. In the past, the 46" and 50" models have been the models that usually show up first. Followed by the 56" and 61".

Originally posted by kjongsma
For what its worth, TVAuthority is still projecting an April 20 ship date for my HL-R4667W...

can someone PM me what they are listing the tv as? And if you know what the 50" is?

Has anyone here purchased a tv from TVA? How are they and what about a warrenty with them?

a. would love to hear a report on the pq of hd4 vs. hd2+
b. was at local tweeter in nh tonite, and they will have hlrxx77s april 25-30, though system showed only a few units, with no floor models, all special order?
c. all hlrxx67s showed special order only, 1st week of may
d. went on pricegrabber, nothing showed for hlr5067, 4 places for hlr4667
e. of the 4 , one was crutchfield for ~2600, others at ~2k
f. wierd, because tvauthority has power buy for new units for avsforum memebers at higher price than the others?
g. one of the hlrs listed, upon clicking thru had hlp, but had 7 segment wheel, contrast ratio of 1500, but cable card. i sure am not giving money to place like this.

Be real careful....everyone is anxious with the new models, but look before leaping.

Personally, I would like to actually see a hd4 picture before I shell out this kind of $

Does anyone know if the TV Guide Feature will be able to show Over The Air Digital Programming in addition to the Cable and Analog Over The Air Programming? Also, does the TV Guide display all of the programming together on one screen or are their separate screens to see Cable Channels, Digital Over The Air, and Analog Over the Air?

Thanks

Originally posted by ds_1910
Does anyone know if the TV Guide Feature will be able to show Over The Air Digital Programming in addition to the Cable and Analog Over The Air Programming? Also, does the TV Guide display all of the programming together on one screen or are their separate screens to see Cable Channels, Digital Over The Air, and Analog Over the Air?

Thanks

In POST #1 of this thread you can find links to the 67 series, 77 series, 87 series and 88 series Samsung owners manuals. All of these models have TV Guide support. If you find the answer in the manuals, please post it back here because it was a good question.

How does the floating screen design look with a backlight? It seems like it might be distracting, having the light shine through that space below the screen.

Originally posted by aaronwt
How does the floating screen design look with a backlight? It seems like it might be distracting, having the light shine through that space below the screen.
I think the gap is just in the front of the case. From the pictures I've seen the full case behind the screen is not changed. We shall see soon. :)

I didn't think the gap went all the way through to the back?

On the pictures you can see the wall behind the set on the right and left.

I agree. If you look at, for instance, some of the 6168 photos, you will see the back wall on the right and left sides.

If you wanted to back-light, you could always consider some sort of covering for the back of the two sides so that the light wouldn't shine through.

Originally posted by T. Perinne
I didn't think the gap went all the way through to the back?

If it did, it would be a true "floating" screen. :)

It has been some time since I posted on this thread. But I have been reading it almost daily.

Since it is now mid April, when can we expect to see the 78 or 68 go on sale? I belive June is the timeframe, how firm is that?

I am eager to buy one, jut wanting to spend an hour at my local tweeters to mess with it first.

i noticed cnet has "First Look" blurbs on the hlrxx67, hlrxx68, and hlrxx87/88 series:

hlrxx66/67 first look (http://reviews.cnet.com/Samsung_HL_R5067W/4505-6484_7-31335748-2.html?tag=top)

hlrxx68 first look (http://reviews.cnet.com/Samsung_HL_R6768W/4505-6484_7-31335745-2.html?tag=top)

hlrxx87/88 first look (http://reviews.cnet.com/Samsung_HL_R5087W/4505-6484_7-31288781-2.html?tag=top)


not a whole lot there, but a couple of interesting points:
(1) they state that samsung claims that the new color wheels in these models will help reduce the rainbow effect.
(2) they indicate there are a couple of differences between the 61" and 67" hlrxx68 models, with only the 67" model getting a PC input and a fine pitch screen. also, they don't mention the second hdmi input for either of the hlrxx68 models.

given the second point, i wouldn't be surprised if cnet's information is wrong. why would samsung provide a PC input and fine pitch screen on the entry level hlrxx67 models and the hlr6768, but leave out these features on the hlr6168? doesn't sound right to me.

Originally posted by aircasper
i noticed cnet has "First Look" blurbs on the hlrxx67, hlrxx68, and hlrxx87/88 series:

hlrxx66/67 first look (http://reviews.cnet.com/Samsung_HL_R5067W/4505-6484_7-31335748-2.html?tag=top)

hlrxx68 first look (http://reviews.cnet.com/Samsung_HL_R6768W/4505-6484_7-31335745-2.html?tag=top)

hlrxx87/88 first look (http://reviews.cnet.com/Samsung_HL_R5087W/4505-6484_7-31288781-2.html?tag=top)


not a whole lot there, but a couple of interesting points:
(1) they state that samsung claims that the new color wheels in these models will help reduce the rainbow effect.
(2) they indicate there are a couple of differences between the 61" and 67" hlrxx68 models, with only the 67" model getting a PC input and a fine pitch screen. also, they don't mention the second hdmi input for either of the hlrxx68 models.

given the second point, i wouldn't be surprised if cnet's information is wrong. why would samsung provide a PC input and fine pitch screen on the entry level hlrxx67 models and the hlr6768, but leave out these features on the hlr6168? doesn't sound right to me.

Unfortunately, c/Net has a track record of making errors. I don't believe the specs that they are quoting are accurate. The $7,000 number for the 6768 is also probably in error.

Originally posted by stepmback
... when can we expect to see the 78 or 68 go on sale? I belive June is the timeframe, how firm is that?

All of our best information is still pointing toward June.

Just posted by Kirk of TVA in the HLR PowerBuy thread:

With AVS Forum approval, we will offer a separate power buy for the 1080p models but not until we get firm costs from Samsung and are closer to the scheduled shipping dates. Samsung is still giving us positive signs that 1080p models are right on track with their release dates which is encouraging.

Keep your fingers crossed! :D

Originally posted by UCSB
Unfortunately, c/Net has a track record of making errors. I don't believe the specs that they are quoting are accurate. The $7,000 number for the 6768 is also probably in error.

Well, the $7000 price for the 67" is consistent with a lot of other sources say. It can't possibly be right, though -- particularly given that Mitsubishi's 73" 1080p set will apparently be only $5800.

They list as a "con" the lack of DVI inputs. I'm not sure I understand the reasoning behind this; given that there are sufficient HDMI inputs, why would I want DVI-D inputs, unless I just wanted to use an old cable and didn't want to buy an adapter?

[edited to fix typo]

Originally posted by aircasper
hlrxx68 first look (http://reviews.cnet.com/Samsung_HL_R6768W/4505-6484_7-31335745-2.html?tag=top)

No mention of a 50" model, only 61" & 67"???

Originally posted by Saluki
No mention of a 50" model, only 61" & 67"???
I think you mean 56 inch. A 50" model was not planned for the 68 Series.

BTW, I thought the 6168 would have a fine pitch screen... I wonder what CNET was told?

EDIT: Administrator beat me to it

Originally posted by Administrator
I think you mean 56 inch. A 50" model was not planned for the 68 Series.

I was thinking 78 series, I guess. Wasn't there talk of a 50" in the 68 series earlier?

Originally posted by Saluki
No mention of a 50" model, only 61" & 67"???


I am unfortunately limited to a 46" set .... :( No plans for a 46" either, correct (in the 68 or 78 series)??

Originally posted by Saluki
I was thinking 78 series, I guess. Wasn't there talk of a 50" in the 68 series earlier?
Yes, if they don't make a 78 Series, there is a slight possibility of a 50" in the 68 Series.

Originally posted by MrBoost
I am unfortunately limited to a 46" set .... :( No plans for a 46" either, correct?
That's correct, sorry.

Administrator, any words of wisdom from Steve P lately?

Originally posted by UCSB
Unfortunately, c/Net has a track record of making errors. I don't believe the specs that they are quoting are accurate. The $7,000 number for the 6768 is also probably in error. $7000 is ridiculous for the 67"...hopefully it will be well under $5500 since the 61" is $4500.

Originally posted by schaffer970
Administrator, any words of wisdom from Steve P lately?
Nope, sorry. I'll post if I hear anything.

If you read their "downside" they claim;
"these entry-level sets cost quite a bit more than last year's low-end Samsung DLPs."
Last years 50" was $3500 street when it came out WITHOUT a ATSC/QAM tuner. The LIST price for the 05 model with the tuner is $500 LESS than the previous model!

Yep, I guess CNET isn't a very accurate source.:mad:

Originally posted by UCSB
In POST #1 of this thread you can find links to the 67 series, 77 series, 87 series and 88 series Samsung owners manuals. All of these models have TV Guide support. If you find the answer in the manuals, please post it back here because it was a good question.

Checked out the Manual and it refers to a TV Guide On Screen Manual for details which is not included with this owners manual. So no answers in the owner's manual on whether it will display all of the digital over the air channels as well as the analog over the air.

Originally posted by videobruce
If you read their "downside" they claim;
"these entry-level sets cost quite a bit more than last year's low-end Samsung DLPs."
Last years 50" was $3500 street when it came out WITHOUT a ATSC/QAM tuner. The LIST price for the 05 model with the tuner is $500 LESS than the previous model!

Yep, I guess CNET isn't a very accurate source.:mad:

Uhh, yeah, "when it came out." You can get an HLP5063 right now for $2500 at just about any local merchant. Sometimes for even less.

Even though MSRP might not drop, you know that the stores aren't paying as much for these things as they were when they came out.

Originally posted by jwv651
$7000 is ridiculous for the 67"...hopefully it will be well under $5500 since the 61" is $4500.

I agree. RIght now I am torn between the 5067w and the 5068w. The 67w has a great price thru TVA but if I could get the 5068 under $4000, I'd go for it.

Has anyone here purchased a tv from TVA and how are they? Also, what does their warrenty include and any other feedback? PM me if you wish or post it here for all. Basically I'm curious about buying from an internet site cause Tweeter was saying that most don't have good warrenties and that they wouldn't match an internet price (obviously).

The 67w has a great price thru TVA but if I could get the 5068 under $4000, I'd go for it.

The 5068 better be under 4k. The 6168 lists for 4500 and better be 3900 so I would imagine the 5068 would be 3500 or less. I really want it but no way am I paying MSRP from any dealer when a best buy or local place will probably have it for 3900. If not in june when they come out then by August or september.

I thought it has been established that there is only an outside chance of a 50 inch model being made for the 68 series. Do we now know that they intend to make this size?

Originally posted by JDBull
I thought it has been established that there is only an outside chance of a 50 inch model being made for the 68 series. Do we now know that they intend to make this size?
Does not look good for a HL-R5068:
Per Post #1:
UPDATE - AS OF: 2/22/2005 - Samsung is still evaluating the 78 Series product line by seeking input from their dealer network. The 50" (HLR5078W) and 70" (HLR7078W) are more likely to be produced than at CES. But, Samsung is considering going with the Series 68 line ALONE ... YES, let me repeat, they are considering not producing the 78 Series product line. If this happens, they would add a 50" and possibly a 70" to the 68 Series product line.

UPDATE - AS OF: 3/25/2005 - Samsung is still including all of the 78 Series models in their dealer communications.

Originally posted by donb1948
donb
(I knew I was hooked when the guy at Best Buy said, "I don't know what it does either but if you buy now, in three months, they'll upgrade you to the newest version for free," and I handed him my credit card.)

How did you get BB to do that? For that deal I would get a 720P now also, if I knew I could upgrade to the 1080P model in a few months for no charge.

Originally posted by aaronwt
How did you get BB to do that? For that deal I would get a 720P now also, if I knew I could upgrade to the 1080P model in a few months for no charge.
LOL Who wouldn't? :D

First of all, BB would not do it - The "upgrade" in this peculiar case was through the manufacturer.

More importantly, experience has shown that deals such as this:
1. Are NEVER for something I really want or need! and
2. ALWAYS have a low WAF!!!!!!

(Both points were again perfectly illustrated the time she sent me for a cake keeper and I came back with two cake keepers and a circular saw...)

I'm not sure if this is the best place to ask this question, but I will give it a try.

Mitsubishi' newly announced 1080p's sound extemely interesting to me, especially the WD-73727, with an MSRP of $5800. This is in comparison to the Samsung HLR7078 with an MSRP $6400 (?). I know that most people here like Samsung (I like them, currently have a hlp6163 that has been great, for which I have a trade in deal), but I would like to hear some objective comments about how well you think Samsung and Mits have implemented the DLP technology. E.g., with the present HD2+ sets, do you think that they are about the same in overall PQ, etc., or do you think one of them is significantly better? What I would really like to know, of course, is whether the Mits or Sammy 1080p sets will be about the same in quality, or whether one will be significantly better than the other; but I'm sure we can't know that until they are out.

Originally posted by donb1948
Does not look good for a HL-R5068:
Per Post #1:
UPDATE - AS OF: 2/22/2005 - Samsung is still evaluating the 78 Series product line by seeking input from their dealer network. The 50" (HLR5078W) and 70" (HLR7078W) are more likely to be produced than at CES. But, Samsung is considering going with the Series 68 line ALONE ... YES, let me repeat, they are considering not producing the 78 Series product line. If this happens, they would add a 50" and possibly a 70" to the 68 Series product line.

UPDATE - AS OF: 3/25/2005 - Samsung is still including all of the 78 Series models in their dealer communications.

To the best of our current knowledge, the 78 series is still going to be produced. This would lead us to believe that their will NOT be a 50" in the 68 series. BUT, after looking at a lot of photos of these sets, I've come to the conclusion that Samsung probably has the flexibility to add a new front on any 78 series unit and make it a 68 series for a small investment. They could surprise us. If you need a 50" set, it would probably be a good idea to focus on the HLR5078W.

I have found a good deal on a HLR4677W from a local dealer and the only thing holding me back is the concern over lack of inputs (VGA and DVI). I know I can use an external HDMI switcher to solve most of the issues, but I'm stilll concerned about PC connectivity. It appears that my choices to connect to a PC are DVI-digital or possibly using a RGBHV to component transcoder. Assuming a high quality transcoder (I have a Audio Authority) will it work as well as a regular VGA port would? Thanks.

Jay

Samsung site is under construction (products portion). Hopefully the new HLR sets will be up soon. :D

What site are you referring to? Samsung.com (products portion) appears to be up and running. (Now my computer does not let me access products at all...I think it's having a nervious breakdown!)

www.samsung.com then click on the Products button at the top.

Samsung - Products (http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_index.jsp?eUser=)

This is what shows up:


Sorry for the temporary inconvenience.

We are making some changes that will make samsungusa.com a stronger and more efficient site.Check back with us.

Ok! Now I see it! (My computer is still having a breakdown! When I go to Samsung.com I cannot access products...but I can access them via your above id'd address.)

Originally posted by aaronwt
We are making some changes that will make samsungusa.com a stronger and more efficient site.Check back with us.
Note that it's samsungusa.com for the US market and not samsung.com. :)

Ah! the usa addition helps! Thanks.

NOPE! The bottom of the screen says Javascript:GoTo ('press')...I don't know what that means?!

Originally posted by Ed Weinman
NOPE! The bottom of the screen says Javascript:GoTo ('press')...I don't know what that means?!
What browser are you using?

Do you have Java turned off?

htwaits, now your asking me questions that I can't answer...I have no knowledge of computers!...what I know, I know...but what I don't know scares me! (I don't want to side track this discussion so I'll understand if my situation ends here.)

Originally posted by Ed Weinman
I don't want to side track this discussion so I'll understand if my situation ends here.
Send my a PM and maybe we can get you started.

htwaits,

Thanks...just PM'd you.

Does anyone think that even if these new models were released mid summer, don't you think retail chains like BestBuy,Circuit City would not carry them till closer to Xmas time to display them at MSRP and clear out the old (current) models.

What do you think of this thought? See it probable that these large chains won't show the new models till Xmas? Isn't that what usually happens.. ?

No. They should have them by late Summer, hopefully earlier. I need to replace my set before the new season starts in the fall. Hopefully they will be available by August so I can have everything setup before the new TV season and footbal starts.

when you say retail chains like BestBuy and Circuit City, do you also include more high end stores like Magnolia or Tweeter?

Originally posted by subwoofer
when you say retail chains like BestBuy and Circuit City, do you also include more high end stores like Magnolia or Tweeter?
Well, for what its worth, I stopped by two higher end stores this weekend. While one had the "P" models on sale, neither had the "R" models on the floor.

Have to admit I am leaning towards the 68W series after thinking I had my mind made up on the 67W series. The fact that the 68W has two HDMI inputs versus only one with the 67W is just one of many strong selling points).

I've been waiting this long, what's another couple of months...

Originally posted by JDBull
Have to admit I am leaning towards the 68W series after thinking I had my mind made up on the 67W series. The fact that the 68W has two HDMI inputs versus only one with the 67W is just one of many strong selling points).

I've been waiting this long, what's another couple of months...

True, I too have switched my HDTV selection from the 67 to the 78. Basically the 720p to the 1080p options. The only questions are: how long do I plan on waiting for them? Are there any bugs in these newer sets? and mostly, how much more is a 50" 720p compared to a 50" 1080p?

I agree that waiting a few more months won't make that much of a difference but I'm tired of waiting and want to get some HD for this fall.

The c/net First Look states that the Rx67 sets use a chip with a native resolution of 1280x720. Over the past several months it has been speculated by many that they would use a wobulated chip, like the Px63 series.

I haven't stayed up with this over the past few weeks. Has it actually been confirmed that the Rx67's will be native 1280x720, with 1:1 pixel:mirror mapping?

Tom, not to disappoint you, but the HLRxx67s will have a wobulated chip. For lack of better terms it is the HD4, or in the new TI nomenclature, .55-720p.

Why would a wobulated chip be a disappointment? I thought they looked great in the 1080p models at CES? The only problem I could see it posing would be with an HTPC...

Well, that's what I've thought (and speculated in multiple posts) all along.

Thus my surprise at c/net stating that the chip has a native resolution of 1280x720.

Although I guess that statement would be true. It is just that I expect reviewers to note when a set uses wobulation vs 1:1 mapping.

Originally posted by Tom_Bombadil
Thus my surprise at c/net stating that the chip has a native resolution of 1280x720.

It's my understanding that "native resolution" means the number of pixels the chip projects and, therefore, the number of pixels to which a different resolution input signal will be converted before being displayed. It's got nothing to do with how the chip produces those pixels, whether wobulated or not.

Originally posted by JDBull
Have to admit I am leaning towards the 68W series after thinking I had my mind made up on the 67W series. The fact that the 68W has two HDMI inputs versus only one with the 67W is just one of many strong selling points).

Whenever I start to get interested in the 720p models that are coming out now, I remind myself:

a. 1080p
b. Higher CR
c. 2 HDMI inputs

I'll wait as long as it takes for the 68s and 78s to arrive!

Only spent a few minutes looking at the c/net review, but wasn't impressed with their knowledge. They talk about a difference between the 61" and the 67" ("Most notable of these are a PC input and a fine-pitch screen--the latter may allow the HL-R6768W to deliver sharper high-def images") as far as I know not true. They also say there is only one HDMI input. So much for cnet. :(

Originally posted by thommy
It's my understanding that "native resolution" means the number of pixels the chip projects and, therefore, the number of pixels to which a different resolution input signal will be converted before being displayed. It's got nothing to do with how the chip produces those pixels, whether wobulated or not.

This is what I meant in the very next sentence in my message after the sentence that you pulled and quoted.

Originally posted by T. Perinne
Why would a wobulated chip be a disappointment? I thought they looked great in the 1080p models at CES? The only problem I could see it posing would be with an HTPC...

Please explain why bad for HTPC. Thats one of my main needs for the new DLP I get.

Originally posted by subwoofer
True, I too have switched my HDTV selection from the 67 to the 78. Basically the 720p to the 1080p options. The only questions are: how long do I plan on waiting for them? Are there any bugs in these newer sets? and mostly, how much more is a 50" 720p compared to a 50" 1080p?

I agree that waiting a few more months won't make that much of a difference but I'm tired of waiting and want to get some HD for this fall.

I'm not in love with the aesthetics of the 78...the black laquer is just too shiny / flashy...that's why I am leaning toward the 56" 68 series. Wish they were making a 50" in the 68 series, but it has been clearly documented in this thread that Samsung more than likely won't. Just hope sitting 8" away from a 56" 1080P is going to be an acceptable viewing distance...

I assume deciding between this years 67 and 77 series will be like choosing between last year's 63 and 74 series. We (this community) believe the 67 series is using an HD4 chip, which is the new model of the HD3 chip and we believe the 77 series is using an HD2+ chip.

So help me choose. Granted almost nobody has seen a HD4 television, so let's talk HD3. Is it still the consensus that the HD2+ chip has a sharper HD picture than the HD3? And is it still the consensus that the HD3 chip looks better in standard definition than the HD2+? And would you consider anamorphic DVDs to be "standard definition" (that's what most viewing will be)?

Originally posted by eno45
Please explain why bad for HTPC. Thats one of my main needs for the new DLP I get.

I've only read the theory here on AVS as to why wobulated displays would not be preferrable for HTPC - I haven't tested it myself. The shape of the wobulated pixels will not show as clear/sharp an image as the pixel shape in say LCD's. I've also read about concerns in matching resolutions with a display that does not do true 1:1 pixel mapping. I believe the consensus is that these negative effects are mainly on graphics and text - not video (so maybe I should've said PC instead of HTPC).

Originally posted by JDBull
I'm not in love with the aesthetics of the 78...the black laquer is just too shiny / flashy...that's why I am leaning toward the 56" 68 series. Wish they were making a 50" in the 68 series, but it has been clearly documented in this thread that Samsung more than likely won't. Just hope sitting 8" away from a 56" 1080P is going to be an acceptable viewing distance...

I don't care if I have the floating screen or black laquer version, both are very good looking sets. I just want an HDTV that is basically all screen and no extras, such as speakers. Good work Samsung. Shame on you Toshiba.

I too am in a similar situation but being in a sectional couch with viewing ranges from 6-9 feet away, I can't possibly get a 56". That is insane, so I have to go for the 46" or 50" HDTV. The guy at Tweeter said to get the 46" or it will feel like the front row of a movie theater if I get 50". But I rather go 50", don't you guys think so?

Originally posted by T. Perinne
I've only read the theory here on AVS as to why wobulated displays would not be preferrable for HTPC - I haven't tested it myself. The shape of the wobulated pixels will not show as clear/sharp an image as the pixel shape in say LCD's. I've also read about concerns in matching resolutions with a display that does not do true 1:1 pixel mapping. I believe the consensus is that these negative effects are mainly on graphics and text - not video (so maybe I should've said PC instead of HTPC).

I have a wobulated DLP (Sammy 5063) and the text is quite readable at native resolution from my couch ~10' away.

The graphics in games that support 1280x720 is phenomenal! If you're worried about using a DLP like the 5063 for an HTPC monitor....don't be.

Ozy

Well there you go... real world experience beats theory every time :).

Originally posted by subwoofer
I don't care if I have the floating screen or black laquer version, both are very good looking sets. I just want an HDTV that is basically all screen and no extras, such as speakers. Good work Samsung. Shame on you Toshiba.

I too am in a similar situation but being in a sectional couch with viewing ranges from 6-9 feet away, I can't possibly get a 56". That is insane, so I have to go for the 46" or 50" HDTV. The guy at Tweeter said to get the 46" or it will feel like the front row of a movie theater if I get 50". But I rather go 50", don't you guys think so?

I have a sectional as well, "L" shaped. The longer length will run parallel to the TV at 10' distance, the short run of the "L" runs perpendicular and will get as close as 6'... I've pre-orderd the 6168!

So, if you're choosing between the 46" and the 50", I say 50"... especially for the part of your couch that is at 9 feet away.

Originally posted by Tom_Bombadil
Although I guess that statement would be true. It is just that I expect reviewers to note when a set uses wobulation vs 1:1 mapping.

Why? To 99% of the buyers it doesn't matter HOW they get to 720p, just that they do. Wobulation means absolutely nothing except to those who read these forums or follow DLP technology.

Originally posted by subwoofer

I too am in a similar situation but being in a sectional couch with viewing ranges from 6-9 feet away, I can't possibly get a 56". That is insane, so I have to go for the 46" or 50" HDTV. The guy at Tweeter said to get the 46" or it will feel like the front row of a movie theater if I get 50". But I rather go 50", don't you guys think so?

The HD design goal (for the 'full big screen effect') is to view the screen from a distance of ~1.5 x diagonal, and this is possible for a 1080p set. (For a 720p set, 2 x diagonal is about as close as is feasible.) For a 56"-er, this is 7 ft. If you sit 9 ft away, the '1.5 rule' gives a 72" set. These distances should be thought of as the CLOSEST one can sit for these sets; and of course it all comes down to personal preference whether or not one really wants the 'full big screen' experience.

I tell you what.....Try watching ER with the 'full big screen effect' without getting motion sickness :)

Originally posted by T. Perinne
Well there you go... real world experience beats theory every time :).
Here is another "world" with the same experience.

We have a HLP5063 connected to our general purpose computer using DVI. The ATI X800 XT graphics card recognizes the TV as a 1280x720 display device. We watch movies played by TheaterTek with the TV set to Expand mode. The results are very good.

According to Cheezmo (ISF calibrator) we are watching a 1x1 bit map with this setup. I've seen nothing in the way of text or graphics to dispute his analysis. At 10" the text is clear but all I use this connection for is a little browsing to Netflix or IMDB and watching movies.

There may be some computer applications that would be a problem but none that I'm using.

Originally posted by smahon
I tell you what.....Try watching ER with the 'full big screen effect' without getting motion sickness :)

Next time you are in a movie theater, take out a ballpoint pen and, holding it at arms length, measure the screen diagonal (or width) in 'pen lengths'. Then when you get home, sit at the distance from your tv that makes the screen diagonal (or width) the same number of 'pen lengths' (again holding it at arms length). I think you will be surprised at how close to the tv you are.

Well,

If you recall my postings from last week I ordered and "HL-R5067W" from an online site last week after talking with them on the phone and having them tell me over and over again that it is actually an HL-R model, not the HL-P model.

This morning I noticed that the HL-R5067W is no longer on their site. I called them to find out what was going on, and the had in fact shipped me an HL-P model.

I had paid them $550 beyond what I could have purchased an HL-P model online for from another retailer.

This was a real mess on their end, but they did make it right and offer to match the $1,847 for the HL-P5067W that I could have gotten somewhere else, or give me a full refund.

I suspected all along that they didn't know the difference between the two models, but they sure were confident that they had them in stock.

For that price, I think I will be happy with the HL-P5067W.

Originally posted by dhenriks
I suspected all along that they didn't know the difference between the two models, but they sure were confident that they had them in stock.

Trust me. They know the difference. They don't think you know the difference or that they can sell you the HLP.

For that price, I think I will be happy with the HL-P5067W.

Good luck. :)

I think I will have to take my tower down to Tweeter and see what it looks like on a 5063 and a 5674.

Just read this article: http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-5798551-1.html?tag=txt and I'm definitely confident on getting the 5067w now. I don't need 1080p even though it does have two HDMI ports (that alone is not worth the money). I will have the cable card but for now cause I use On-Demand I will connect that thru component, PS2 thru component and a new DVD player with HDMI. Only problem is what to connect my new PS3 to next year.

Actually, the biggest difference for someone like myself who will be about 7-9" feet away is not 720p vs 1080p, its if I want a sharp or smooth HD picture. The xHD3 vs HD4 or whatever. I guess I should wait and see what the HD4 looks like and then decide

Originally posted by subwoofer
Actually, the biggest difference for someone like myself who will be about 7-9" feet away is not 720p vs 1080p, its if I want a sharp or smooth HD picture. The xHD3 vs HD4 or whatever. I guess I should wait and see what the HD4 looks like and then decide
HD3, xHD3, HD4, and xHD4 are all "smooth picture" chips... HD1, HD2, and HD2+ are the only "sharp picture" chips.

My fault.....thank you

Originally posted by Administrator
HD3, xHD3, HD4, and xHD4 are all "smooth picture" chips... HD1, HD2, and HD2+ are the only "sharp picture" chips.

Is that still true for SD and anamorphic DVD content?

Absolutely!

Regs,
Jeff

Originally posted by shanec
Is that still true for SD and anamorphic DVD content?
Yes.

The HD3, xHD3, HD4, and xHD4 chips all do 1 mirror = 2 pixels

The HD1, HD2, and HD2+ chips do 1 mirror = 1 pixel

I guess in theory there may be no serious negative effects of wobulation.

In actual practice, as implemented in the x63 sets vs the x74 and x85 sets, where the x63's used wobulation and the others did not, the picture on the wobulated sets was noticably softer from even 10' away. I've run this comparison at least 6 times on different Sammys. And my observations have been confirmed by others in this forum probably 100 times.

This difference held true for all images displayed on the sets, whether they were DVD, HD, or computer.

How much of this "sharpness gap" could be closed via an improved implementation of wobulation, or by switching from an HD3 to an HD4, I don't know.

Note that I am not saying that the softer picture is necessarily a bad thing. Some people like it better than the sharper picture found on the HD2+ sets. Nor am I saying that the picture is overly soft or fuzzy. It is reasonably sharp vs where the HD2+ sets are very sharp.

To answer MikeAlletto, wobulation does indeed mean something to real life customers. I didn't know about wobulation when I first compared a x63 vs a x85. So I came back to this forum and asked why was the picture so much sharper on the 85? That's when I learned about wobulation. The effects of wobulation were immediately apparent to my eyes before knowing the details.

What I'm getting at is that I've read (unfortunately its impossible for me to go look for myself) that the HD2+ 1 mirror : 1 pixel technology makes SD look pretty awful. The thinking is that its too accurate in that it accurately displays all the artifacts and distortions involved in blowing up a SD picture on a big screen. True?

Originally posted by shanec
What I'm getting at is that I've read (unfortunately its impossible for me to go look for myself) that the HD2+ 1 mirror : 1 pixel technology makes SD look pretty awful. The thinking is that its too accurate in that it accurately displays all the artifacts and distortions involved in blowing up a SD picture on a big screen. True?

I dunno. SD looks alright to me on my Mitsubishi HD2+. It depends on the source, though.

DVDs look incredible.
DirecTV looks alright.
Digital SD from my antenna looks awesome.

I don't think I would want to rely on a soft picture to make a bad source look almost adequate. ;) Especially when the soft picture compromises excellent sources like HD over an antenna.

Personally, I think that HD3 sets look awful with HD. Way too soft for me. You lose a ton of detail. However, a wobulated 1080p chip might actually be a perfect compromise between price and picture quality. Since 1080p pixels are a lot smaller than 720p pixels, it might not make a difference that the picture is softer. Hell, most 1080i broadcasts don't even utilize the full resolution as best they could.

I'm sure I'll get corrected if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, the HD2+ appears sharper because of a limitation of the DLP technology. There is space between the mirrors, so when you map 1 regtangular mirror to one rectangular pixel, you can't help but also "map" the spaces between the mirrors. The image appears sharper because there are spaces on the screen where nothing is being displayed, creating this illusion of sharpness. On the other hand, a wobulated design maps a rectangular mirror onto a diamond shaped pixel and then "wobulates" to move the mapping diagonally one pixel. This rectangular->diamond mapping and (subsequent wobble) eliminates the spaces between the pixels and the result is the proclaimed "softer, more film-like" image.

If you look at a wobulated display, there is definitely an "averaging" of the color between adjacent pixels. That is what makes it look soft.

If you look at a 1 - 2 pixel wide blade of grass on an HD2+ and the same image on a wobulated HD3 display, you can see that such details become a blur across many more pixels on the wobulated display.

What have you done to your Eclipse GSX ? From my memory, an AWD turbo Eclipse GSX was supposed to take 14.7 seconds in the quarter.

To answer MikeAlletto, wobulation does indeed mean something to real life customers. I didn't know about wobulation when I first compared a x63 vs a x85. So I came back to this forum and asked why was the picture so much sharper on the 85? That's when I learned about wobulation. The effects of wobulation were immediately apparent to my eyes before knowing the details.

Is it the softer image that means something or the mechanical reasons as to why the image is soft? I would say that the fact that one tv is softer than other means a ton more than saying one tv wobbulates and the other one doesn't. The normal buyer could care less as to the why, all they want is what looks good.

Just because it wobbles may or may not mean that it is soft or unacceptable is all I'm saying. This was in response to a question as to why vendors don't state that one wobbles and the other does not.

When I buy a tv I could care less as to how the image is mechanically displayed. If I like the image of one model over a different model then that is all that should matter to anyone. If they have to make the bulb inside the tv spin around and levitate and do a little dance while drinking a beer all while inside the cabinet I could care less as long as the image is what I like.

Originally posted by dhenriks
What have you done to your Eclipse GSX ? From my memory, an AWD turbo Eclipse GSX was supposed to take 14.7 seconds in the quarter.

I have a turbo off of a Lancer Evolution III (16G), HKS cams, 3" exhaust, DSMLink engine management, front mount intercooler, boost controller, and a ton of other smaller modifications. It still has a 2.0L 4-cylinder engine, just like stock. I run around 25psi of boost at the track. It probably has around 380hp to 400hp at the wheels, and a conservative 440hp at the crank. Though I have never had it dynoed. :) My Eclipse is my daily driver. It is a fun car.

Sorry for polluting the thread. What is one more off topic post, though? ;)

Just so we are all on the same page when talking about wobulation (SmoothPicture), the attachment is a paper by TI on how it works. The overlap is 1/2 a pixel, but because the mirrors are in a diamond pattern, the overlap of one pixel to the next is only 1/4 of the area.

/\ /\/\
/ \/ /\ \
\ /\ \/ /
\/ \/\/

The overlap is the little diamond. There would also be overlap from other mirrors. Hopefully this give some idea of what is going on. The paper does a much better job. :)

My problem with all of this 1 or 2 mirror is that I want a 50" DLP tv that has 1:1 ratio that is not a pedestal (85 series). From what I have read, the 1:1 models look better for digital inputs (DVD and HD) and this is what I want. Tough call.

Originally posted by subwoofer
My problem with all of this 1 or 2 mirror is that I want a 50" DLP tv that has 1:1 ratio that is not a pedestal (85 series). From what I have read, the 1:1 models look better for digital inputs (DVD and HD) and this is what I want. Tough call.

Do you have to stick with Samsung for this purchase?

I like the look of their TVs the best (I know, not the best reason) and they have a good name, better selection of DLP, and they don't have any speakers on the side. I want something that is big but not too wide or deep. Mits had some nice sets but were too bulky and had the glare.

You can remove the protective screen from the Mitsubishi, and it will have the same matte screen as the Samsungs do underneath. Personally, I like the protective screen on my WD52525 since I have a 2.5 year old in my house. :)

Originally posted by subwoofer
My problem with all of this 1 or 2 mirror is that I want a 50" DLP tv that has 1:1 ratio that is not a pedestal (85 series). From what I have read, the 1:1 models look better for digital inputs (DVD and HD) and this is what I want. Tough call.

I think the 77 series might by what you want. It has the same chip as the 85 series. And its not a pedestal.

What size is the center channel shelf that comes on the 77 series (or 74 series - they're probably the same)?

Originally posted by shanec
What size is the center channel shelf that comes on the 77 series (or 74 series - they're probably the same)?
Expect the case to be the same.

Originally posted by shanec
What size is the center channel shelf that comes on the 77 series (or 74 series - they're probably the same)?
The cabinet is the same for the 74 and 77 Series.

You can figure out the shelf size from this doc:
http://product.samsung.com/pdf/hlp4674_drawing.pdf

I fear this question is purely about speculation. But.....the 77 series is being produced in very limited quantities. Its been speculated before here that Sammy will quit making these soon because something else is in the pipe. What's the latest on this? Should I hold off on a 77 to get an HD3+ if one is going to exist?

Originally posted by shanec
Should I hold off on a 77 to get an HD3+ if one is going to exist?
I haven't heard of any such chip. I assume you mean a chip that has one mirror controlling one pixel on the screen and that is an improvement over the HD2, HD2+ chips.