Originally posted by shanec
I think the 77 series might by what you want. It has the same chip as the 85 series. And its not a pedestal.

The problem with the 77 series is they are phasing it out, doesn't have a PC port and I have to have 50" HDTV.

Is it true that the only new 1:1 ratio chips will be on the new 1080p Samsung sets? I feel like someone here said that most of the new 720p and 1080p will have different chips in them but will look almost the same as far as 1:1 or 1:2 ratio goes. That true? Like I said before though, I'm just going to have to wait for Tweeter or somewhere near here (Maryland, DC, Philly, DE area) to get these new Samsung tvs for my own eyes to check out

At this point we know of no new 1:1 chips. HD2, HD2+ are the only 1:1 chips.

Early reports have it that the 1920x1080 res sets will be using 960x1080 chips and wobulation.

If you knew there would be a wobulating display at Never Land--would you go?

HD3, xHD3, HD4, and xHD4 are all "smooth picture" chips... HD1, HD2, and HD2+ are the only "sharp picture" chips. Can someone point me/us to where that is stated other than that TI White Paper that was posted eariler?
Is the only reason for this cost, other than the so called 'film look'?:mad:

In chip manufacturing, size is everything. The smaller you can get the device, the higher your yield (percentage of good chips on a given wafer) gets, and the cheaper your manufacturing is. So these half size chips probably exist for only one reason, to be cheaper. If they could make 1/4 size chips that had only a few compromises, I'm sure that they would jump on it.

Sounds as a step backwards.............:mad:
I see reference to the HD3+ but nothing else. This means all newer chips will be of this design?

Originally posted by videobruce
Sounds as a step backwards.............:mad:
I see reference to the HD3+ but nothing else. This means all newer chips will be of this design?

Not really. Same rule applies to computer chips. Would you say a Pentium 4 is going backwards from a Pentium 286?

Actually, TI has dropped the 'HD' nomenclature completely, so you won't see it in any official documentation

Would you say a Pentium 4 is going backwards from a Pentium 286? Poor comparison. I'm talking about a cheaper chip that has shortcuts taken by TI to cut costs. If you like a 'soft' pic I guess it's ok, but many don't including myself.

It appears that every signal viewed on a 1080p set will need to be upconverted. Having said that, which do you think will have a better picture, a 720p signal viewed (and upconverted) on a 1080p set, or a 720p signal viewed on a 720p set?

Originally posted by RMSko
It appears that every signal viewed on a 1080p set will need to be upconverted. Having said that, which do you think will have a better picture, a 720p signal viewed (and upconverted) on a 1080p set, or a 720p signal viewed on a 720p set?

I thought the majority of HD broadcasts were 1080i.

Originally posted by millerwill
I thought the majority of HD broadcasts were 1080i.

Actually ABC and Fox and their affiliates (e.g., ESPN) are 720p and NBC and CBS and thier affiliates are 1080i. If it is a 1080i signal, it would still need to be upconverted to 1080p, but I assume an upconverted signal would look as good if not better than a 1080i signal converted to 720p. However, I presently use an HD TiVo that doesn't (yet) have native passthrough and so if I leave the TiVo on either 720p or 1080i, at least half the time it will require two conversions if the set is a 1080p set.

Originally posted by RMSko
It appears that every signal viewed on a 1080p set will need to be upconverted. Having said that, which do you think will have a better picture, a 720p signal viewed (and upconverted) on a 1080p set, or a 720p signal viewed on a 720p set?

the 1080P set, depending on the scaler.

Originally posted by videobruce
Poor comparison. I'm talking about a cheaper chip that has shortcuts taken by TI to cut costs. If you like a 'soft' pic I guess it's ok, but many don't including myself.

You are assuming the 1080p chips will have a soft image. Which no one has said they will or will not. "Cutting Costs" doesn't necessarily mean "taking shortcuts". And both of those terms don't necessarily mean something negative.

Originally posted by MikeAlletto
You are assuming the 1080p chips will have a soft image. Which no one has said they will or will not. "Cutting Costs" doesn't necessarily mean "taking shortcuts". And both of those terms don't necessarily mean something negative.

The HD3 chip was definitely a compromise over the HD2(+) chips that was done in order to cut costs. Cutting costs isn't a negative. That is a positive thing. The consequences of cutting costs can be positive or negative, however. Personally, I feel the HD3 was a step backwards.

The 1080p xHD3 is definitely a step forward over the HD3, though. And possibly a step forward over the HD2+. We shall see whether the loss in horizontal resolution over the HD2+ (1280 HD2+ vs 960 on the xHD3) is worth the gain in vertical resolution (720p HD2+ vs 1080p xHD3).

Actually, I should note that the resolvable horizontal resolution of the xHD3 isn't really 960. In reality it is somewhere between 960 and 1920. Closer to 1920 than 960, I would hope. :) I don't want to send the thread into a tizzy. ;) But I doubt that it is actually 1920. If it were, we wouldn't notice a loss of fine detail on the HD3 chip displays over the HD2+ displays, and there is definitely a loss of detail.

If the xHD3 uses the same diamond pixel structure and thus has the 1/4 pixel overlap, then it would likely fall short of a "true" 1920 horizontal resolution. In the same way that the HD3 is not as sharp as the HD2+.

However given that the pixels will be much finer on the xHD3 (960x1080) vs the HD3 (640x720) the area in the overlapped pixels will be correspondingly smaller, which hopefully will result in a much lesser degree of softening.

From the files of "Can't win for losing"

If you solve the screen door problem once and for all then everyone says it isn't sharp!

Think about it, reality isn't made up of tiny squares all framed in invividual black borders. Why should your television screen be any different?

Sure black or false edges will give the "appearance" of sharpness, but a properly calibrated display will have false edges minimized.

Ken

Reality isn't made up of tiny 1/4 overlapping squares that are rotated 45 degrees, either.

My gripe isn't about false sharpness. It is about resolvable detail. Sharpness is NOT the same thing as resolvable detail!

Pixels that do not overlap give better resolvable detail, period.

Originally posted by KenLand
From the files of "Can't win for losing"

If you solve the screen door problem once and for all then everyone says it isn't sharp!
Ken,

You take me right back to 2002. :D

I don't ask much of my images. I just want them to make me forget that they are coming from a TV. ;)

The older I get the easier it is to forget. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Shape
Pixels that do not overlap give better resolvable detail, period.
What do you say to the vast numbers of movie directors who like to play games with resolvable detail?

Originally posted by htwaits

The older I get the easier it is to forget. :rolleyes:

The older I get, the more "new" things I have to learn about each day.

Originally posted by Tom_Bombadil
The older I get, the more "new" things I have to learn about each day.
Like ... what I learned yesterday. ;)

Originally posted by Shape
Reality isn't made up of tiny 1/4 overlapping squares that are rotated 45 degrees, either....
Pixels that do not overlap give better resolvable detail, period.

Well, no. But by most accounts (including my own) they present a more realistic representation of reality.

Unless you're looking at one of these displays and viewing a specificic problem I wouldn't worry.

There *are* 1920 x 1080 distinct and uniquely addressable pixels. They're just arranged in a way that hides their structure and presents a more natural image.

If you want to worry about something related to 1080P SmoothPicture chips then worry about how the driver chips are going to process all of that data during action scenes. :)

Ken

anyone else see that Crutchfield has the HLR-4667 up? http://www.crutchfield.com/S-4RPbHlQkZLm/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=154650&I=305HLP5085 These sets are coming but which one is right for me!!?!?!

Subwoofer,

The link you posted is to the HLP5085.

From what I've seen of the current models in showrooms, the Kirks have the best picture. Not enough better to face my wife's wrath over the form factor though. :)

On the new models I'm going to chase the highest Contrast Ratio and best 1080P input *after* I or someone else I trust has verified the picture doesn't suffer from some unforeseen problem.

DynamicBlack is a system level optional feature that may differentiate the Samsung models. We'll want this feature as long as it doesn't introduce some distracting artifact.

Hey don't anybody feel bad about being old. At least you can post at 2 in the afternoon with a clear conscience :)

Ken

Originally posted by KenLand
Hey don't anybody feel bad about being old. At least you can post at 2 in the afternoon with a clear conscience :)
We even post on the weekends. :D

Originally posted by KenLand
From what I've seen of the current models in showrooms, the Kirks have the best picture.
Ken

Is it significantly better than that of the Mits dlp's (apart from the glary screen)?

Originally posted by AkaStp
Here is the HLR4667 (I first posted it a week ago :-)
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-k2bVnJpgyGk/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=154650&I=305HLR4667

Whats even more depressing is that they show it available as of last Saturday. C'mon TVA - lets start shipping! :p

Hey millerwill,

I meant among the Sammy's. Across DLP breeds I actually like the Toshiba picture the best followed by Sammy then Mits and others.

I can only really consider Sammy's though, due to the form factor. I don't even want to see the TV speakers, let alone find extra space for them. (referring to Tosh)

Note that my opinions on PQ here are based solely on the questionable setups at Fry's, Tweeter's, Circuit City, and BestBuy and include the Glary Screen on the Mits.


Ken

KenLand, you are being very diplomatic. I think people are forgetting how the image is made with the DLP. There is nothing associated with a pixel. It is simply red, green or blue colored light that is on some period of time (depending on how long the mirror is reflecting light to the lens). When your brain integrates this light you get some shade of color. There is no sharpness or detail associated with the pixel. When you put together all the pixels you get the picture. I agree that trying to make the image more "real" is what we are all looking for. :)

Hey Shaffer,

Thanks. With that sexy description of DLP I'm glad you're in engineering and not marketing :)

Ken

Originally posted by kjongsma
Whats even more depressing is that they show it available as of last Saturday. C'mon TVA - lets start shipping! :p

It says "expected 5/16/2005" now. I like the use of the word "expected", it leaves them off the hook if they can't deliver until July.

Yea, we engineers are known for our flowery prose the world over. Just ask Dilbert! :D

Originally posted by AkaStp
Here is the HLR4667 (I first posted it a week ago :-)
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-k2bVnJpgyGk/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=154650&I=305HLR4667

Btw, how many people noticed that Samsung's web site was down all weekend with an announcement that they were making it much better only for it to return EXACTLY THE SAME as it was! Still no HLRs on there yet!

The CR on the Crutchfield website is different (2500:1) from what is posted on the on the Samsung site: http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?eUser=&prod_id=HLR4677WX%2fXAA

didnt know if anyone posted this or not, samsung always has a big showing at the home theater expo in ny,

ht expo (http://www.homeentertainment-expo.com/index.html)
It kinda crept up on me, realized its end of this month.
Anyway, im planning on duct taping my wife in front of the HLR6168W for a few hrs and see if the rbe bothers her. She's the one who gets sick on the older sammies cuz of rainbows. I swear i saw less rbe at ces but i seem to be the only one. Once at the show i plan on concentrating only on the 1080p sets and have a fuller report on rbe. If its low enuff for my wife to handle than i should be all set... if not im screwed.

So if you havent already, make plans to attend this thing, its a pretty cool show. Its no ces, but i can walk to this one. :)
K
btw,
Awesome work on page 1 Bill and T. Im always amazed how updated that page is.

Welcome back! I'll be waiting anxiously for those pictures. I wish I could go.

Originally posted by kyungkim
didnt know if anyone posted this or not, samsung always has a big showing at the home theater expo in ny,

ht expo (http://www.homeentertainment-expo.com/index.html)
It kinda crept up on me, realized its end of this month...Once at the show i plan on concentrating only on the 1080p sets and have a fuller report on rbe. If its low enuff for my wife to handle than i should be all set... if not im screwed.

So if you havent already, make plans to attend this thing, its a pretty cool show. Its no ces, but i can walk to this one. :)
K

kyungkim-

That is awesome! Many of us will eagerly be looking forward to your report. Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by kyungkim
didnt know if anyone posted this or not, samsung always has a big showing at the home theater expo in ny,

Please take your camera and get some pics to post here! As well as any 'data' that you can glean, e.g. the WEIGHT of the large 1080p's, the 6768 and 7078. Have fun!

Originally posted by kyungkim
didnt know if anyone posted this or not, samsung always has a big showing at the home theater expo in ny,

ht expo (http://www.homeentertainment-expo.com/index.html)
It kinda crept up on me, realized its end of this month.
Anyway, im planning on duct taping my wife in front of the HLR6168W for a few hrs and see if the rbe bothers her. She's the one who gets sick on the older sammies cuz of rainbows. I swear i saw less rbe at ces but i seem to be the only one. Once at the show i plan on concentrating only on the 1080p sets and have a fuller report on rbe. If its low enuff for my wife to handle than i should be all set... if not im screwed.

So if you havent already, make plans to attend this thing, its a pretty cool show. Its no ces, but i can walk to this one. :)
K
btw,
Awesome work on page 1 Bill and T. Im always amazed how updated that page is.

Thanks ... some questions that I know many here would like to have more information on is: What is the MSRP of the 6768? Are the 68/78 series units still going to be arriving in June? What computer support will be available via HDMI on 68/78 series? Confirm that 1080p will not be supported on HDMI? Double check screen sizes in 68/78 lines? You might want to just print the 68/78 section of POST #1 and just double check the inputs and other specs ... it would be appreciated.

Well it seems that there is some confusion over the contrast ratio on the 67 series. We originally had it at 2000:1. Then I updated it to 2500:1 based on that spec on the Samsung site. Now the Samsung site is back to 2000:1, but Crutchfield is still showing 2500:1. I don't think that the Samsung sites are stable. So, I'm confused. Should I move the 67 series spec back to 2000:1???

Originally posted by UCSB
Well it seems that there is some confusion over the contrast ratio on the 67 series. We originally had it at 2000:1. Then I updated it to 2500:1 based on that spec on the Samsung site. Now the Samsung site is back to 2000:1, but Crutchfield is still showing 2500:1. I don't think that the Samsung sites are stable. So, I'm confused. Should I move the 67 series spec back to 2000:1???

I modified POST #1 to explain current confusion ... I will continue to show both possible spec's until we get this resolved.

I think we are getting lost in the numbers. HLRxx77s should be 2000 (they have HD2+ chips in them and 6 segment 9,000 rpm color wheel). HLRxx67s should be 2500 (they have HD4 chips in them and 7 segment 10,800 rpm color wheel). The only thing up on the samsung site right now is the 77s as they took all the 67 stuff down from public view.

lol..
Will do, definitely. Im thinking of borrowing a digi slr for the occasion.

But it was more of an invitation for you guys to come out here.
Its a great oportunity to check these out. The crowds are usually not as crazy at bigger shows like ces and obviously seeing first hand is better than reading reviews by idiots like me.
Everyone knows im blind in one eye right? (j/k)
heres the link (http://www.homeentertainment-expo.com/index.html) again. Its 35 bucks for all 4 days, starts on thurs runs thru the wknd.

This is where i first ever laid eyes on a sammie dlp maybe 3-4 yrs ago, its where they introduced it.
Samsung has one of the biggest spaces there, last yr joe kane was doing a demo in their booth.

Seriously, dont you guys wanna excuse for a weekend trip to the big apple?
Arent you dying to see these things first hand?
Its at the end of the month so theres still some time to make arrangements im sure.

Nothing like planning a roadtrip just to watch some tv!

K

Originally posted by schaffer970
I think we are getting lost in the numbers. HLRxx77s should be 2000 (they have HD2+ chips in them and 6 segment 9,000 rpm color wheel). HLRxx67s should be 2500 (they have HD4 chips in them and 7 segment 10,800 rpm color wheel). The only thing up on the samsung site right now is the 77s as they took all the 67 stuff down from public view.

I've reset it to "up to 2500:1".

Originally posted by AkaStp
Here is the HLR4667 (I first posted it a week ago :-)
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-k2bVnJpgyGk/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=154650&I=305HLR4667

Btw, how many people noticed that Samsung's web site was down all weekend with an announcement that they were making it much better only for it to return EXACTLY THE SAME as it was! Still no HLRs on there yet!

My bad. I posted the wrong link. Aka, so you posted it a few ago.......(golf clap), and do you want a price or something?

I'm hoping mid-May is the right date for these. I wanna see one in action

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kyungkim
lol..
ts a great oportunity to check these out. The crowds are usually not as crazy at bigger shows like ces and obviously seeing first hand is better than reading reviews by idiots like me. [/QUOTE

I would second kyungkim's recommendation to attend this show. I happened to be on the east coast last spring and took the opportunity to spend a day at it, and it was most worthwhile. Steve P. was there in the Samsung room, and one could talk with him individually and get very straight answers to all the questions on ones mind. It was the first time I saw Sammy dlp's, the old hln's and the then new hlp's; made a big impression.

I'd like to go, but NYC is too far from the sweet land of Sugar Land!

Anyone going please ask about:

1. DynamicBlack - What is it? How does it work? and which models will have it?

2. 1080P Digital Inputs - Are we going to get them? HD-DVD will be out soon (definitely within the life of these sets) and we don't want obsolete sets! Information we have says the digital input chips will handle it.

Thanks,
Ken

Without having to read over 100 pages, what's the difference in the different models, and which ones are staying and which ones are being discontinued?

I'm looking to buy a DLP in a couple weeks, and BestBuy has some great prices on the HL-P5063w, and a few online retailers have some great prices on HLN5065W. I suspect these prices are because the models are older. What is the current model numbers for sets available in stores now, and what are the "real" differences between them?

This may not be the right place for the following post, but it indirectly relates to the HLR 5078W / 5068W. I have a 43" wide stand (the Bello AVSC-2103 which I highly recommend by the way). It resides in a media niche that is 46" wide. I am planning on purchasings the HLR5078W or 5068W (which ever one is made, if any). I understand that based on post #1 the collective wisdom is that those units will be 46.5" wide. I am fine having the first inch or two of the unit extend beyond the media niche (much as it does in the pictures from CES), but my concern is whether I can place a 46.5" wide unit on the 43" wide stand. It will be relatively undisturbed in the media nice, but.....

The stand can hold over 150lbs of CRT television (as it does right now), so the 77 or so lbs should not be a problem, It is the distribution and how the unit's footprint distributes the weight (are there small feet at the edges of the unit, etc.) that concerns me. Any thoughts on my predictament would be appreciated.

Sawyer1370, please read the first post. It is extremely illuminating.

Originally posted by KenLand
I'd like to go, but NYC is too far from the sweet land of Sugar Land!
The year I spent in Harlingen TX was not ... I repeat ... was not sweet. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Ed_Newt
It is the distribution and how the unit's footprint distributes the weight (are there small feet at the edges of the unit, etc.) that concerns me. Any thoughts on my predictament would be appreciated.
Depending on what the case does behind the bezel it should be fine. The screen is the lightest part of the set and that should be just about all that is hanging out.

You can probably move your stand forward a couple of inches too.

Originally posted by sawyer1370
Without having to read over 100 pages, what's the difference in the different models, and which ones are staying and which ones are being discontinued?

What is the current model numbers for sets available in stores now, and what are the "real" differences between them?

This is what I think I know: :p

The 'P' models are last year, the 'R' models are 2005. Some of the 'R' models appear to have dual brightness lamps (100W/120W), which should allow for longer builb life.

Some of the 'R' models also appear to have the latest TI DLP chip along with a 10,000 RPM 7 segment color wheel.

Some 'R' models have the integrated HD OTA/Cable tuner, so no external tuner is required. They also have a cable card slot, so you don't need a digital cable box.

Some 'R' models have a builtin TV Guide.

Some 'R' models have an improved black/higher contrast ratio.

Originally posted by sawyer1370
Without having to read over 100 pages...

You can go to the first post, POST #1, in this thread; it has the latest information on all of the new 2005 models. Every current model, ie. model numbers beginning with HLP, as in HLP5063W, will be replaced by a new HLR model over the next one to three months. If you buy a new Samsung DLP in two weeks ... it will be approximately one week before the new HLRxx67W series is released and you might want to defer the purchase for a few days and look at the new models.

I'm a NYC resident & I work in the Hotel industry (Bell/Doorman) in the Midtown area. The Hilton is 1 block away from my job, so I'll definitely attend this event.

I have a Canon A95 Powershot Digi Cam, so i'll be trying to put it to great use. It also allows me to record video on it, so i'll try using that feature as well. I'll ask my older bro if he'll want to go, if not I can ask to borrow his Nikkon D90 SLR DigiCam, but I doubt he'll lend me it.

If you guys want to post some questions for me to ask @ the expo, I'll be more than happy to. I have my eyes & hopes set upon the Samsung 6168 1080p set, if not, then I wouldn't mind the 1080p 56" Samsung Pedestal Model. I saw a pic of it in the latest Sound & Vision mag.

KyungKim, maybe we can meet up @ the show? let me know. Anyone else plans to attend from here, let me know maybe we can tailgate. LOL!

Originally posted by UCSB
You can go to the first post, POST #1, in this thread; it has the latest information on all of the new 2005 models.
Right - but it doesn't compare to the previous models. I think sawyer1370 wanted to know what's changing between the 'P' and 'R' models.

Kyungkim & TMSKILZ please try and confirm the MSRP on the HLR6768 and release dates...and also what TI chips are being used. Good luck! and Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by htwaits
The year I spent in Harlingen TX was not ... I repeat ... was not sweet. :rolleyes:


Well, if you'd spent a year in Sugar Land, you'd still be here. :)

Ken

Originally posted by TMSKILZ
If you guys want to post some questions for me to ask @ the expo, I'll be more than happy to. I have my eyes & hopes set upon the Samsung 6168 1080p set, if not, then I wouldn't mind the 1080p 56" Samsung Pedestal Model. I saw a pic of it in the latest Sound & Vision mag.

Please try to find out if the 7078 is still on the books to be produced, and if so when the expected appearance date will be, as well as MSRP and any other hard info re dimensions and weight. Is it going to be in the 'shiny black bezel' format, or the 'floating screen' version?

Thanks much!

TMSKILZ,

While most are interested in learning more about Samsung's upcoming 1080p televisions, I would like to know if you see a substantial improvement over the 720p televisions e.g. HLR6167. Obviously the 1080p sets offer a better PQ, but I'm trying to determine if it's enough to warrant the longer wait and additional cost.

Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by C-Shift
TMSKILZ,

While most are interested in learning more about Samsung's upcoming 1080p televisions, I would like to know if you see a substantial improvement over the 720p televisions e.g. HLR6167. Obviously the 1080p sets offer a better PQ, but I'm trying to determined if it's enough to warrant the longer wait and additional cost.

Thanks in advance.

Yes and H*** yes!:D

I have the HL-R5067 ordered in the power buy and have a question for the digital experts. I have a Dish 921 Sat receiver which has DVI-I output. Will a DVI to HDMI cable work with the DVI-I output? I have been told both that it will work and that it won’t work. Does anyone know for sure if I can connect the new TV with the HDMI input?

Earl

I'm not sure what "DVI-I" is. But there are DVI-to-HDMI and visa versa cables.

Originally posted by kjongsma
Whats even more depressing is that they show it available as of last Saturday. :(
It would appear that Crutchfield has just pushed their projected availability for the HL-R4667W out a month to May 16th now. Hopefully that means they've sold out their April allocation and not a delay...

Wonder why this is the only HLR model they have listed

Originally posted by AkaStp
Crutchfield have always (well since they added it a week or so ago) had a mid-to-late May date for the HL-R4667W. TVA were claiming April availability. Perhaps you are getting Crutchfield and TVA mixed up?
Possibly! I really need to cut back on the magic mushrooms...

Originally posted by fr8flyr
I have a Dish 921 Sat receiver which has DVI-I output. Will a DVI to HDMI cable work with the DVI-I output? I have been told both that it will work and that it won’t work.
My HDMI cable with a DVI-D connector on one end works fine at 720p with the Motorola 6200 STB used by Comcast.

Any problems you might have would probably come from HDCP handshake not the cable. Depending on the length you need, they run around $30 at good Internet cable dealers.

Since the new 78W series is coming out, when do people expect the 74W prices will drop? Also, how much different will the PQ be with the different chip sets in the new sets?

Originally posted by subwoofer
Wonder why this is the only HLR model they have listed

When new models are shipped, the smaller screen sizes are often the first units out. They are followed within a short time by the larger sizes. Usually the other sizes show up over the next few weeks.

Originally posted by htwaits
Depending on what the case does behind the bezel it should be fine. The screen is the lightest part of the set and that should be just about all that is hanging out.

You can probably move your stand forward a couple of inches too.

Thanks, I would absolutely move the stand out to be even with the front edge of the screen.

Thanks for your response!

Originally posted by sawyer1370
Since the new 78W series is coming out, when do people expect the 74W prices will drop? Also, how much different will the PQ be with the different chip sets in the new sets?

If you are waiting for the 74W prices to drop, there is some danger the units might just stock out instead. The 63W's are being discounted, but the 74W's seem to be much harder to find.

Originally posted by Ed_Newt
Thanks for your response!
You're welcome. Enjoy.

Originally posted by fr8flyr
I have a Dish 921 Sat receiver which has DVI-I output. Will a DVI to HDMI cable work with the DVI-I output? I have been told both that it will work and that it won’t work. Does anyone know for sure if I can connect the new TV with the HDMI input?
I don't think there are any DVI-I to HDMI adapters... I also don't think a DVI-D to HDMI adapter will work with your DVI-I output.

(They do make DVI-I to Component adapters.)

Here's more info about DVI-D and DVI-I (http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/dvi/index.htm)

Originally posted by Administrator
I don't think there are any DVI-I to HDMI adapters... I also don't think a DVI-D to HDMI adapter will work with your DVI-I output.
If the Dish 921 Sat receiver is using the DVI-I for digital data I "think" a DVI-D connected HDMI cable will work, but I'm not sure.

The cable connection is male so the missing horizontal sync (R,G,B and H) pins for analog shouldn't be a problem.

I'm using a DVI-D male connector to my graphics card and it's working fine into the DVI-D connector on the HLPxx63. I'm assuming that the graphics card is DVI-I.

An all HDMI world might be less confusing -- at least for video. :(

Keep in mind that any of my conclusions might be wrong, but my two connections are working. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by sawyer1370
Since the new 78W series is coming out, when do people expect the 74W prices will drop? Also, how much different will the PQ be with the different chip sets in the new sets?

My local Costco just got the 74 series in at a good price. I wasnt considering these at all before but after seeing them in person they are quite nice, and I do favor the HD2+ chip. I was trying to wait for the 67 series, but its only been a month without HD and im already getting very sick of it. Im very close to picking up the HLP5674 at Costco.

1080p is out of the question for me as of now due to the price.

I was also planning on attending the show here in NYC next weekend. I will try to take some pictures as well (I have a 6MP camera, so that should provide for some decent shots). I am really only interested in getting a first hand look at these sets, especially considering that nearly all of our questions have been answered.

Let me know if there is anything else specific that you'd like asked.

Clorox: I suppose the most outstanding question is whether the 78 series sets are actually going to be produced, if so, what sizes. (And also how they look, in your opinion!) If they show up at the CE show in NYC, then that should answer that question. Then, the question is WHEN do the Samsung folks think they will be available.

PS If Mitsubishi is there, then it would of course also be great to hear how you think their 1080p dlp's stack up to Samsungs.

The Mitsubishi 1080P's will not be in stores until September. The larger models (62" & 72") will have internal hard drives. You can read the entire news release on their web site.

Originally posted by mastahkaz
My local Costco just got the 74 series in at a good price. I wasnt considering these at all before but after seeing them in person they are quite nice, and I do favor the HD2+ chip. I was trying to wait for the 67 series, but its only been a month without HD and im already getting very sick of it. Im very close to picking up the HLP5674 at Costco.

1080p is out of the question for me as of now due to the price.


I saw this one at my Costco, too. How are you planning to get this monster home? I don't think they deliver.

Does Cosco offer extended warranties?

Originally posted by sawyer1370
Does Cosco offer extended warranties? TVA does - even on sets they don't sell.

Originally posted by mastahkaz
My local Costco just got the 74 series in at a good price. I wasnt considering these at all before but after seeing them in person they are quite nice, and I do favor the HD2+ chip. I was trying to wait for the 67 series, but its only been a month without HD and im already getting very sick of it. Im very close to picking up the HLP5674 at Costco.

1080p is out of the question for me as of now due to the price.

Did they have the 46"? I've only seen the 56" to date...

Originally posted by mastahkaz
My local Costco just got the 74 series in at a good price. I wasnt considering these at all before but after seeing them in person they are quite nice, and I do favor the HD2+ chip. I was trying to wait for the 67 series, but its only been a month without HD and im already getting very sick of it. Im very close to picking up the HLP5674 at Costco.

1080p is out of the question for me as of now due to the price.
I don't know what price you saw for the 74, but I don't think the 68 will be that much more expensive than the 74, especially if there is a powerbuy. Anyone else have any thoughts?

Originally posted by RMSko
I don't know what price you saw for the 74, but I don't think the 68 will be that much more expensive than the 74, especially if there is a powerbuy. Anyone else have any thoughts?

considering the costco price is about 3k including the tr63 stand, and in light of tva's relatively small discount on the hlrxx77 models, i would guess that the price of the hlr5668 could be upwards of around 1k more if you included a stand in the price. but that's just a guess. :)

Originally posted by fr8flyr
I have the HL-R5067 ordered in the power buy and have a question for the digital experts. I have a Dish 921 Sat receiver which has DVI-I output. Will a DVI to HDMI cable work with the DVI-I output? I have been told both that it will work and that it won’t work. Does anyone know for sure if I can connect the new TV with the HDMI input?

Earl

Here is a good link to DVI/HDMI Info (http://www.ddwg.org/dvi.html). Basically the "I" means that the the DVI output include both a digital and analog signal. You will only be using the digital portion of the signal when connecting to you set. The table at the bottom of the linked page shows how everything works together. By the way, the short answer is that yes it will work (as long as you use the right cable/adapter). :)

I'm looking to buy either the HL-R4677 vs. HL-R4667, but am confused as which to purchase. The 4677 is about $400 more than the 4667. Is it worth the extra money? If so, why?

Thanks.

Originally posted by rsrsatx
The 4677 is about $400 more than the 4667. Is it worth the extra money?
To determine that you need to see both sets. The 4677 will look like the 4674 but the 4667 seems to have a new version of it's DLP chip and a contrast ratio that is now the same as the "xx74" and "xx77" sets.

I am an employee at Best Buy and the HLR 67 Series is available for delivery starting May 6

Originally posted by bballstar22
I am an employee at Best Buy and the HLR 67 Series is available for delivery starting May 6

Thanks and welcome to the AVSforum.

Originally posted by bballstar22
I am an employee at Best Buy and the HLR 67 Series is available for delivery starting May 6
YES! :D

Now, if only CC also offered them by May 6th, as I have a 10% coupon that expires on May 8th.

Of course BB might price match!

Originally posted by rsrsatx
I'm looking to buy either the HL-R4677 vs. HL-R4667, but am confused as which to purchase. The 4677 is about $400 more than the 4667. Is it worth the extra money? If so, why?

Thanks. I just purchased a HLR4677 from a local dealer. The main difference is that the "77" uses the ultra thin bezel cabinet design and uses the HD2+ chip. Both of which are more expensive than the "67" cabinet design and the HD4? chip. Whether or not it's worth $400 that's up to you. For me it was because the "67" would not fit in my cabinet and the "77" would. Good luck.

Jay

I presently have an HL- P5674W that Samsung has agreed to replace. They have also agreed that I can replace it with any unit offered. I am deciding between the HL-R5667W and the HL-R5668W. I'm pretty sure that if I go with the 67, I will not be out of pocket any money. If I go with the 68, Samsung has indicated that there will be some price differential, but since they have not yet come out with pricing on the 68's, they don't know how much that will be. I have two questions, do people think it's worth waiting for the 68 instead of getting the 67? If so, anyone have any guess (understanding it's a complete guess at this point) at what I can expect to pay for the upgrade from the 74 to the 68?

BTW - Kudos to Samsung - they are an amazing company to deal with.

Originally posted by RMSko
anyone have any guess (understanding it's a complete guess at this point) at what I can expect to pay for the upgrade from the 74 to the 68?
If you go with the 68 Series, you will probably have to pay the difference between what your sales receipt says you paid for the HLP5674W and the MSRP of the HLR5668W.

Post #1 in this thread has the best known information for the 2005 sets. According to the first post, the MSRP for the HLR5668W will be $4,199. That will probably be pretty accurate, so from that you can subtract what you paid for the HLP5674W and that will be a pretty good guesstimate of what you'll pay to upgrade.

BTW - Who did you have to talk to at Samsung to get them to replace your set, and what was wrong with your set?

Originally posted by Administrator
If you go with the 68 Series, you will probably have to pay the difference between what your sales receipt says you paid for the HLP5674W and the MSRP of the HLR5668W.

Actually - Samsung does it a bit differently. They use an internal model for this. They never asked what I actually paid and I'm fairly certain that that is not factored into the equation. I think (but am not sure - does anyone know?) that they look at the original MSRP of the defective unit and compare it against the original MSRP of the replacment unit.

BTW - Who did you have to talk to at Samsung to get them to replace your set, and what was wrong with your set?

A tech came and examined the set and recommended replacement. The set had a few problems that could not be fixed. It's a long long story, but suffice it to say that Samsung was really good about it.

Originally posted by RMSko
I think (but am not sure - does anyone know?) that they look at the original MSRP of the defective unit and compare it against the original MSRP of the replacment unit.
If that's true, then you really shouldn't have to pay much (if anything) to upgrade to the HLR5668W because I believe the original MSRP for the HLP5674W was $4,199.99 - Which is the same price as our guesstimate MSRP price for the HLR5668W.

Maybe ask Samsung how they will be calculating your upgrade price - What exactly will they be valuing your HLP5674W at? Then you can get a good idea of what you'll be paying to upgrade.

Originally posted by Administrator
Maybe ask Samsung how they will be calculating your upgrade price - What exactly will they be valuing your HLP5674W at? Then you can get a good idea of what you'll be paying to upgrade.

Good idea, thanks.

Originally posted by RMSko
I presently have an HL- P5674W that Samsung has agreed to replace. They have also agreed that I can replace it with any unit offered. I am deciding between the HL-R5667W and the HL-R5668W. I'm pretty sure that if I go with the 67, I will not be out of pocket any money. If I go with the 68, Samsung has indicated that there will be some price differential, but since they have not yet come out with pricing on the 68's, they don't know how much that will be. I have two questions, do people think it's worth waiting for the 68 instead of getting the 67? If so, anyone have any guess (understanding it's a complete guess at this point) at what I can expect to pay for the upgrade from the 74 to the 68?

BTW - Kudos to Samsung - they are an amazing company to deal with. Samsung is having my HLP6163 picked up tommorrow for a full refund...They replaced my first set 3 months ago...my second set the Samsung tech said wasn't worth fixing...light engine, digital board, and smudges.
They offered me another HLP6163, or a full refund...I took the refund and will wait it out for the HLR6168 or HLR6768. Hopefully June will be the actual release dates of these new sets...just maybe Samsung will actually release something on time.
Samsung is really a awesome company to deal with...at least it was for me.

Originally posted by infinite b
here's a decent write up with the best pics i've seen...

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages/mitsubishi05san.htm
Hmmmm.... Noticed this in a Mitsubishi dlp thread. Of interest because it refers to Mitsubishi's use of the "HD3 1080p" TI chip in sets due this Fall. (see photo caption Figure #2.) Of course, it could be just a journalistic error, since TI reportedly dropped the "HD" designations..

I'm just dying to know if the xx67 will have more of a smooth picture or digital one. Seems like no one knows yet.

Because I want a 50" DLP tv with a PC port to it with moreso a digital picture than smooth. Seems like I can't have everything that I want. The xx74 and xx77 don't come in 50" and the new one doesnt support PC inputs.

Originally posted by donb1948
Hmmmm.... Noticed this in a Mitsubishi dlp thread. Of interest because it refers to Mitsubishi's use of the "HD3 1080p" TI chip in sets due this Fall. (see photo caption Figure #2.) Of course, it could be just a journalistic error, since TI reportedly dropped the "HD" designations..
We know the HD3 chip is a 720p DMD, so that's a mistake in the article. However, they could have meant xHD3 - That is a 1080p chip.

Originally posted by subwoofer
I'm just dying to know if the xx67 will have more of a smooth picture or digital one. Seems like no one knows yet.

Because I want a 50" DLP tv with a PC port to it with moreso a digital picture than smooth. Seems like I can't have everything that I want. The xx74 and xx77 don't come in 50" and the new one doesnt support PC inputs.
There are no new chip planned that we know of that will have a sharper picture like the HD1, HD2, and HD2+ chips.

All of the 2005 sets use a wobble chip.

It's very easy to tell:

- If the chip size is 0.8" then it's a big 720p chip with more mirrors like the HD2+ which means sharper picture.

- If the chip size is 0.55" then it's a small 720p chip with less mirrors like the HD3 which means wobble chip and smooth picture.

- If the chip size is 0.9" then it's a small 1080p chip with less mirrors like the xHD3 which means wobble chip and smooth picture.

Originally posted by Administrator
Maybe ask Samsung how they will be calculating your upgrade price - What exactly will they be valuing your HLP5674W at? Then you can get a good idea of what you'll be paying to upgrade.
I tried it, but they said the info was confidential so I guess I'll have to wait until the pricing comes out. They did tell me that they don't use the original MSRP or the original purchase price, but that they had their own internal formula. My guess is it is tied to the then MSRP, which in my case could be a problem b/c the 5674 is no longer even available. Hopefully they'll be reasonable. I'd be fine paying $200 - $300, but anything more wouldn't seem right.

Has anyone confirmed if the 77 has an EPM?

How does that affect the use of the CableCard?

I believe this is old news because I remember reading this before. However, it was just posted on the Audioholics site: http://www.audioholics.com/news/pressreleases/1080pDLPTVs.php

Interesting to me is the wording "The 1080p DLP chip offers a variety of features to customers that allow them to differentiate their TVs:" This suggests that all displays using the new chip might not be equal due to manufacturers electing to not implement certain features.

Originally posted by dunnar
Has anyone confirmed if the 77 has an EPM?
The 77 Series does not have the Gemstar TV Guide On Screen Menu like all the other HLR sets do.

Originally posted by donb1948
This suggests that all displays using the new chip might not be equal due to manufacturers electing to not implement certain features.
Yes, it said:

"The 1080p DLP chip offers a variety of features to customers that allow them to differentiate their TVs:"

But then it listed off the 4 features. I believe it meant that SharpPicture, DynamicColor, DynamicBlack, and DarkChip3 are new features that are part of the 1080p DLP chip and because of those features these new 1080p sets will stand out from other TV's.

I do not think manufacturers will be able to customize the chips. Why would they want to leave out any of those new features?

The new sets will not all be equal, because each manufacturer designs the light engine which makes a big difference, but they will all use the same DMD chips with those 4 new features included.

Originally posted by dunnar
How does that affect the use of the CableCard?
I don't know for sure, but I've heard that CableCard DCR product without a TV Guide EPG is a problem...

Originally posted by Administrator
Yes, it said:

"The 1080p DLP chip offers a variety of features to customers that allow them to differentiate their TVs:"

But then it listed off the 4 features. I believe it meant that SharpPicture, DynamicColor, DynamicBlack, and DarkChip3 are new features that are part of the 1080p DLP chip and because of those features these new 1080p sets will stand out from other TV's.

I do not think manufacturers will be able to customize the chips. Why would they want to leave out any of those new features?

The new sets will not all be equal, because each manufacturer designs the light engine which makes a big difference, but they will all use the same DMD chips with those 4 new features included.

Administrator: I presume that no products were ever produced with what used to be called the xHD3 chip, the one used in proto-type 1080p machines shows by TI as various expositions last year. (As I remember, people were pretty under-whelmed by them.) Both the new Sammy and Mits 1080p sets that are coming out soon will have what is informally known as the xHD4 chip, correct?

Originally posted by millerwill
Both the new Sammy and Mits 1080p sets that are coming out soon will have what is informally known as the xHD4 chip, correct?
As far as I know, that is correct. I think it's basically an xHD3 chip with those 4 new features.

Originally posted by RMSko
I tried it, but they said the info was confidential so I guess I'll have to wait until the pricing comes out. They did tell me that they don't use the original MSRP or the original purchase price, but that they had their own internal formula. My guess is it is tied to the then MSRP, which in my case could be a problem b/c the 5674 is no longer even available. Hopefully they'll be reasonable. I'd be fine paying $200 - $300, but anything more wouldn't seem right.
If it's based on the last available MSRP, then I believe that would be $3,499.99 for the HLP5674W - And if the new set is $4,199, then that's a $700 difference...

Maybe you could contact Samsung and tell them:

"I just want to get an idea of how much it might cost me... Let's say hypothetically that the new HLR5668W MSRP is $4,199, how much more would I have to pay to upgrade from my HLP5674W?"

See what they say. ;)

AkaStp: The small pedestal you are worried about looks like the same 'foot' that is on the present hlp6163 set, added presumably to stabilize it with respect to tipping forward. It is easily removed, and I find that the set is actually MORE stable without it (and certainly looks better on my non-Samsung stand). I would guess this would be the case with the xx67 sets.

Originally posted by Administrator
As far as I know, that is correct. I think it's basically an xHD3 chip with those 4 new features.

One other item is critical to the new chip - Fast Track Pixel (FTP). This actually changes how the chip is constructed (makes it simpler to build) and switching is apparently faster. See FAQ Question #16 in post #1 for more information on FTP.

millerwill is correct. It's a stabilizing foot, not a pedestal - It just hangs out in front a little more then the rest of the set. There is no gap, the speakers will sit flush with any stand.

Also, the "foot" is only on sets 61 inches and bigger.

Originally posted by Administrator
If it's based on the last available MSRP, then I believe that would be $3,499.99 for the HLP5674W - And if the new set is $4,199, then that's a $700 difference...

Maybe you could contact Samsung and tell them:

"I just want to get an idea of how much it might cost me... Let's say hypothetically that the new HLR5668W MSRP is $4,199, how much more would I have to pay to upgrade from my HLP5674W?"

See what they say. ;)

Thanks, another good suggestion, however, I tried that too, but they said they don't necessarily use the MSRP and that they use some internal price differential formula. I'm not sure I got an accurate story, but I don't think I am going to get anything more out of them until the pricing is set. In any event, based on what you said about the last available MSRP of the 5674, I have a feeling that I may be in for a bit of a challenge. What stinks is that I already paid an upgrade price of $500, just 2 months ago, for the exchange of a 5663 (which was also defective) for the 5674, even though the MSRP differential was likely less than $500. I just need to get full credit for the $500 I already paid and I think that is what may become an issue. I'm sure they'll be fair when they review all the facts, but I'm equally sure it may be a bit of a hastle.

RMSko,

Looks like you're gonna have to wait then... :(

Good luck, I hope it works out for you.

Originally posted by Administrator
Yes, it said:

I do not think manufacturers will be able to customize the chips. Why would they want to leave out any of those new features?

The new sets will not all be equal, because each manufacturer designs the light engine which makes a big difference....
I do not expect that the display manufacturers will be able to "customize" chips either. However, based on the cursory descriptions of SharpPicture, DynamicColor and maybe Dynamic Black, I wondered if a display maker might elect to not include the necessary electronics or light engine specifics to make use of these features in the same way that OEMs cost differentiate home computers containing Intel's Pentium processors. Most home computers do not make use of the more esoteric features and capabilites of, for instance, the P4 processor. And, based on the target market, don't need to do so. Just a thought...

On the other hand, I agree that manufacturers' implementations of light engines, scaling/converting, etc. will undoubtedly contribute to displays using the same DMD not being equal. That's what branding is suppose to be about.

Originally posted by schaffer970
One other item is critical to the new chip - Fast Track Pixel (FTP). This actually changes how the chip is constructed (makes it simpler to build) and switching is apparently faster. See FAQ Question #16 in post #1 for more information on FTP.
I think DarkChip3 and Fast Track Pixel might be the same thing?

As I understand it, the DarkChip3 is a Fast Track Pixel chip.

Here are a few links:

http://www.google.com/search?q=fast+track+pixel+and+darkchip3

http://www.progressive-av.co.uk/product_pdfs/projectors/sim2_grand_cinema_ht300_ht300_e-link.pdf

Since the Mits and Sammy implementation of the hd2+ chip gave sets that were pretty much equal in PQ, I'm assuming that this will also be the case for the 1080p sets using the xHD4 chip. Anybody have in thoughts, pro or con?

This is from the PDF file that I linked to in my previous post:

New 0.8" 720p DarkChip3™ by Texas Instruments

The HT300 E-LINK and HT300 E projectors are the first on the market to feature the new 0.8" 720p DarkChip3™ by Texas Instruments (HD2+ DC3). The DarkChip3™ incorporates smaller mirror hinges, reduced gaps between mirrors, a flatter,more reflective surface and a new light absorbent coating for unmatched contrast and color uniformity. Also the DarkChip3™ is a Fast Track Pixel (FTP) chip that allows an approx. 50% reduction of the dithering effect for an exceptionally natural, crystal clear image.

Originally posted by AkaStp
No, thats not it. I know what you are referring to though. This looks like a pedestal that is on ALL of the HLRxx67 sets not just the 61" model. You would need to take a close look at the spec sheet to see exactly what I'm referring to. Take a look at the linked PDF below and take a close look at the TV images at the bottom of page 3 and at the top of page 6. Also, take a look at the stands where you should see an indent/cutout in the top. Do you see what I'm referring to?

http://product.samsung.com/SamsungUSA/PRODUCT/20050408/HLR4266W4667W5067W5667W6167W.PDF
Those pics at the bottom of page 3 and top of page 6 are not shown to scale. They are probably all pics of the 61 inch set (they use the same pic in marketing a lot).

That is the foot that you are seeing in those pics. Not a pedestal. The speakers will sit flush with any stand.

Administrator, you may be completely right. To quote myself from a month or so ago:

The most recent developments in chip technologies made by TI are something called Fast Track Pixel (FTP) and DarkChip3. FTP actually changes the chip architecture (there is one less layer and the chip is easier to manufacture) while DarkChip3, as I understand it, adds a coating to minimize light scattering from within the chip (I am not completely sure where FTP stops and DarkChip3 starts but it really doesn’t matter).

All this really amounts to is that there are differences between the HD3/xHD3 series and the new chips which are significant. We just need some sets to be available so that we can actually see if there are visually significant differences.

Originally posted by schaffer970
All this really amounts to is that there are differences between the HD3/xHD3 series and the new chips which are significant. We just need some sets to be available so that we can actually see if there are visually significant differences.
Correct, and the significant differences between the old chips and the new chips are those 4 new features listed in that TI 1080p article. I'm sure you'll notice visually significant differences, especially in 1080p. ;)

Originally posted by AkaStp
Either of us could be right or wrong. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. :) I sure do hope there is no pedestal on the 50" model.
Look at this pic:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4966758&fullpage=1

Notice how the "foot" is the same width as the "riser" between the speakers and the TV screen?

Now look at those pics at the bottom of page 3 and top of page 6 in the PDF:
http://product.samsung.com/SamsungUSA/PRODUCT/20050408/HLR4266W4667W5067W5667W6167W.PDF

See how the "pedestal" is also the same width as the "riser" between the speakers and the TV screen?

It's a picture of the 61 inch set resized to resemble all the different sets...

Samsung did the same thing with these pictures, only they used a set smaller then 61 inches:
http://www.hwhpr.com/prclients/samsung/ces05/index.html

Notice how the 61" and 67" sets don't show the "foot" in the pic? That's because they're not really pictures of the 61" and 67" sets - It's probably a 56" set in those pics. ;)

I'm going to be needing a stand for a 6168. Do a lot of you that already have a Samsung DLP use the samsung stand or did you find a cheaper/aka better type?

I'd like something with lower shelves for storage. I'm also going to be needing a set of shelves for next to it that will have everything else. I'm only going to be needing to run 2 cables to the tv so any shelves in the stand will probably just be used for game consoles or misc dvd storage. So the stand storage shelves don't really need to be large.

Originally posted by AkaStp
Thanks. When you say "available for delivery" are you referring to when they will be available for purchase via the BB web site and/or from the store? When will they be on display in the stores?
When I say available for delivery on May 6 I mean that you can buy it now and in my area (Northern Virginia) it can be delivered as early as May 6

Originally posted by AkaStp
Administrator, you make very good points. I hope you are right.

Btw, are we reaching the point yet whereby we'll be needing separate threads for the 720p and 1080p HLR models? Or, wait until they appear and start appropriate owners threads?

One more thing: would I be right in assuming that as the biggest size TV that will fit in our A/V equipment nook is the 50" model and as we sit 10-13' from the screen that a 1080p 50" model would be wasted on me?
I'm sure they wouldn't put a little pedestal on the bottom of all sets - I don't think that would be very sturdy or safe. :)

I personally think we should wait until the sets start to ship before we split off into separate "owners" threads.

I think any 1080p set will look better then a 720p set of the same size. (Especially the black detail.) So no, I don't think it would be a waste for you.

Originally posted by jwv651
Samsung is having my HLP6163 picked up tommorrow for a full refund...They replaced my first set 3 months ago...my second set the Samsung tech said wasn't worth fixing...light engine, digital board, and smudges.
They offered me another HLP6163, or a full refund...I took the refund and will wait it out for the HLR6168 or HLR6768. Hopefully June will be the actual release dates of these new sets...just maybe Samsung will actually release something on time.
Samsung is really a awesome company to deal with...at least it was for me.

Now this is an optimist.

Two sets have failed and had to be replaced.

Now he's hoping they finally release something on time.

And he characterizes them as an "awesome company!"

:p

Originally posted by Administrator
I personally think we should wait until the sets start to ship before we split off into separate "owners" threads.

I agree, lets wait until people have the sets in their hot little hands :D

Originally posted by Tom_Bombadil
Now this is an optimist.

Two sets have failed and had to be replaced.

Now he's hoping they finally release something on time.

And he characterizes them as an "awesome company!"

:p After dealing with Mitsubishi with my 55" RP and their horrible service dept...I have to say Samsung has been great...I also have a 1.5 year old HLN567W that has been totally trouble free. I agree 2 sets go bad...just bad luck...Optimist...always!

Originally posted by Tom_Bombadil
And he characterizes them as an "awesome company!
It's awesome because there aren't very many other companies treating their problems the same way.

I wouldn't mind a refund about June 15th but so far my HLP5063 won't co-operate. :(

Originally posted by MikeAlletto
I'm going to be needing a stand for a 6168. Do a lot of you that already have a Samsung DLP use the samsung stand or did you find a cheaper/aka better type?

I'd like something with lower shelves for storage. I'm also going to be needing a set of shelves for next to it that will have everything else. I'm only going to be needing to run 2 cables to the tv so any shelves in the stand will probably just be used for game consoles or misc dvd storage. So the stand storage shelves don't really need to be large.

I am in the process of building a stand for my anticipated HLR6168. With any luck what I am building will look like the Chicane 4 (http://www.soundations.com/product.asp?loc=HT&c=c). My understanding is that the Chicane is ~$2,500. What I am building will come in at about $650. I will post pictures when it is complete. :)

Here's a quick update (more to follow as we get updates). HL-R5087W will be available on Monday, HL-R5067W should be in stock by the end of next week. We'll keep you posted on the rest of the 67 series as information becomes available.

Send me a picture of the finished product when you get a chance schaffer970 want to see where your new TV is going to go :)

Cambryn

Originally posted by cammy
Send me a picture ...

Cambryn
Picture? I trust you! When's the Power-Buy?! (It must be great to have useful skills.)

Originally posted by AkaStp
----------------------------One more thing: would I be right in assuming that as the biggest size TV that will fit in our A/V equipment nook is the 50" model and as we sit 10-13' from the screen that a 1080p 50" model would be wasted on me?

You have room enough for a 70" screen. For confirmation on this take a look at this site which is about view distance. I am talking about high def viewing.

http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html#anchor_13194

At 50" and if the viewing distance was 13 feet, I would think the 720P would make more sense. If the viewing distance was only 10 feet, It would be easier to see the difference between the two resolutions, but I think it would still be a toss up between the two.

Originally posted by AkaStp
So the point of my question is (still) is there any advantage to having a 1080p screen in a 50" size at a viewing distance of 10-13'.

I really think we are all going to have to go down and take a look at these sets when they are released and form our own opinions ... and then come back here and compare notes. I'm keeping an open mind. 10-13' is pretty close to my viewing distance so I will definitely be looking at the 50", 56", and 61" sets when they are released.

Originally posted by AkaStp
In or getting a HLR5067 720p set when they become available within the next month. I suspect I'll opt for the latter.

For a 10-13 ft viewing distance, and a 50" screen, I think that this is the most reasonable choice. I would not imagine that 1080p will add any noticeable enhancement with this size and distance.

Originally posted by millerwill
For a 10-13 ft viewing distance, and a 50" screen, I think that this is the most reasonable choice. I would not imagine that 1080p will add any noticeable enhancement with this size and distance.

The 68s also have 2 HDMI inputs, which could be useful, although I guess you could always get an HDMI switcher for about $225 and the difference in price between the 2 sets is expected to be more than that. Also, I believe that the 68s will accept all resolutions through HDMI, but I'm not sure about the 67s. Has anyonoe done a spec by spec comparison of the 67s and 68s?

Even with two HDMI inputs, I will still need a couple of HDMI switchers, unless they come out with a 4 way HDMI switch. So far I have only seen 2 way HDMI switches. I already have 3 devices with HDMI/DVI and by next year will probably have 5 or 6 devices.

^how well do these HDMI switchers work?

I too am in the same boat where my viewing distance is 6.5-9.5 feet away and I am looking at a 50" 720p

Just thought I would chime in on the distance thing. I happened to go into a store about a week ago that had a Qualia (70" 1080p) set and was able to sit and watch some Discovery Channel HD for a while (there was no one else in the store). I sat about 8' away and didn't feel too close. I am sure the distance one sits from a set is a very personal thing. I am planning to get a 61", but if the Qualia is any indication of the quality of the what the picture will look at on the Sammys, then I might think about a 67". I guess what I am trying to say is that the 1080p picture is simply outstanding even at closer distances.

Originally posted by subwoofer
I too am in the same boat where my viewing distance is 6.5-9.5 feet away and I am looking at a 50" 720p

The usual 'rule of thumb' is that ~2 x screen diagonal is about as close as one should view a 720p set (i.e., before one will see artifacts); for a 50" one, this is about 8 ft. So if you are planning to sit closer than that, a 1080p set would presumably make a real difference in PQ.

Originally posted by schaffer970
Just thought I would chime in on the distance thing. I happened to go into a store about a week ago that had a Qualia (70" 1080p) set and was able to sit and watch some Discovery Channel HD for a while (there was no one else in the store). I sat about 8' away and didn't feel too close. I am sure the distance one sits from a set is a very personal thing. I am planning to get a 61", but if the Qualia is any indication of the quality of the what the picture will look at on the Sammys, then I might think about a 67". I guess what I am trying to say is that the 1080p picture is simply outstanding even at closer distances.

I was thinking the same thing myself; now to talk my better half into it...

Originally posted by schaffer970
Just thought I would chime in on the distance thing. I happened to go into a store about a week ago that had a Qualia (70" 1080p) set and was able to sit and watch some Discovery Channel HD for a while (there was no one else in the store). I sat about 8' away and didn't feel too close. I am sure the distance one sits from a set is a very personal thing. I am planning to get a 61", but if the Qualia is any indication of the quality of the what the picture will look at on the Sammys, then I might think about a 67". I guess what I am trying to say is that the 1080p picture is simply outstanding even at closer distances.

I'm certainly planning to get the 67" or 70" Sammy 1080p--or maybe the Mits 73" if they look as good--for my sitting distance of ~10 ft.

AWESOME!!

1080p DLP Hotness is a go! (http://www.audioholics.com/news/pressreleases/1080pDLPTVs.php/)

1080p DLP TVs Enters Volume Production and Shipment Quantity


Dallas, TX, April 2005 - Texas Instruments recently announced that its 1920 x 1080 high-definition (HD) resolution DLP TV technology has been fully qualified and is in production shipment to customers.

ROCK ON!


DLP TVs are expected to be the first volume 1080p TVs available on the U.S. market, with affordable 1080p DLP TVs scheduled to be at retail as early as July.

Manufacturers who have announced 1080p DLP TVs include LG, Mitsubishi, Samsung, and Toshiba.

I guess I'd probably pick either Samsung or Mitsubishi. Hell, today's Wall Street Journal said that Samsung is currrently one of the most profitable electronics companies out there today. Period.


Mitsubishi will publicly introduce for the first time today 5 new models featuring 1080p DLP technology, ranging in screen size from 52” to 73”, at their line show in Orlando, Florida. 1080p DLP TVs will complement the 720p high-definition DLP TV offerings available on the market, which total more than 75 models from more than 20 customers worldwide.

I still can't get over the prices on these, considering the kind of technology involved and how new it is.



The 1080p DLP chip offers a variety of features to customers that allow them to differentiate their TVs:


* SharpPicture™: Processing enhancement that works in conjunction with SmoothPicture™ technology to simultaneously provide sharp, yet smooth and seamless images.
* DynamicColor™: Enhances colors and contrast without impacting skin tones, allowing for more vibrant and lifelike color reproduction.
* DynamicBlack™: System level solution which provides dramatic increases in system contrast ratio and grayscale fidelity by as much as 4x, bringing greater detail to dark scenes and images and allowing customers to achieve contrast ratios well above 5000:1.
* DarkChip3™: Feature that includes architectural changes to the DLP chip resulting in a 20 - 40% improvement in contrast over DarkChip2™.


With the highly anticipated industry move to 1920 x 1080 resolution digital capture, broadcast and playback, 1080p DLP TVs are designed to display incredible high-definition pictures that match the full content resolution.

According to In-Stat, there are currently 4 million HDTV households in the US, up from 1.6 million in March 2004.

That's the beginning of the boom. HDTV is really starting to make inroads. Now, if we could just get more HD content, we'd be on to something. I can't wait to see what happens after DirecTV gets all those new satellites up this summer.


Many HD cable and network programming offerings have already moved to 1080 resolution, and the highly anticipated HD-DVD and Blu-ray Disc technologies for high-definition video playback are expected to make their debut later this year.

And it may be as one format instead of two, if you see my earlier link. Worst case scenario, and one that I actually prefer, would be to keep both formats in tact and just start putting out universal players like what we have for regular DVD's now. (SACD, DVD-A, WM9, MP3, etc. etc.)


“This is an exciting time for HDTV, as we are seeing large quantities of HD content and consumer products to support the content,” said Dale Zimmerman, Business Manager, DLP™ TV Products at Texas Instruments. “We are pleased to provide our customers with a 1080p resolution chip so they can continue to lead the TV market with innovative DLP TVs.”

Now all we need is more actual HD content.



The inherent advantages of DLP technology include no burn-in or fade, deep rich colors, and incredible, industry-leading contrast ratios. The speed advantage of DLP technology allows for a 1-chip architecture that provides razor-sharp images that will not misconverge over time, and excellent reproduction of fast video such as sports and live action with no motion lag.

Any cons? One thing that bothers me on some of these new TV's is what I like to call the "patio screen effect." I'm sure you all have seen this before. You see the obvious criss crossing lines on the picture and it really looks like you're looking through a thinly veiled patio screen. I don't think DLPs that I've seen have that problem, either.

I really can see myself making a move this summer when these come out. Now...you all can be my devil's advocates. ;)

Just as an aside re: HDTV programing: I've been without my set since 10/04 and am waiting for the '68's to come out. Just saw, this a.m., the HDTV scheduling for today and it's a very sad state of affairs that the same episodes of programs shown in HDTV six months ago are still being aired by the HDTV stations (not all, of course, but...)

Originally posted by Ed Weinman
Just as an aside re: HDTV programing: I've been without my set since 10/04 and am waiting for the '68's to come out. Just saw, this a.m., the HDTV scheduling for today and it's a very sad state of affairs that the same episodes of programs shown in HDTV six months ago are still being aired by the HDTV stations (not all, of course, but...)

That's exactly why I've been biding my time. The hardware is out there, but I just don't feel like I'm seeing that much HD programming out there YET to merit making a purchase. IF DirectTV puts up a bunch of new HD programming this summer, via the new satellites, and a few others things come into play, then I'll probably make a move.

I won't bother making a move until I see what I consider to be a "decent" amount of good HD programming. I don't feel like we're there yet on the programming side.

Q-

Great post, thanks.

I am getting so itchy to see the new sets as my wife has finally caved in to my need for HD.

Believe me, I'd be one of the first, finances permitting, to get one of the new HDTVs - even with the limited HDTV programing. I've watched shows on my prior HDTV that I would have never been drawn to in standard def. solely because of the beauty of HD.

So at retailers possibly in July?? Maybe possible shipment from TV Authority in June?? One can hope!!!

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
I don't feel like we're there yet on the programming side.

The TV shows people like is really a matter of personal preference ... so one person may think that there is enough content, another not. But, I find that there is enough content. I watch primarily HD (Comcast HD digital cable with HD DVR), one of the few exceptions is nightly news.

This content argument for waiting does not really make sense to me. A great show in HD is so enjoyable that not buying until there are more of them doesn't seem to add up. HD is now mainstream technology.

Originally posted by UCSB
The TV shows people like is really a matter of personal preference ... so one person may think that there is enough content, another not. But, I find that there is enough content. I watch primarily HD (Comcast HD digital cable with HD DVR), one of the few exceptions is nightly news.

This content argument for waiting does not really make sense to me. A great show in HD is so enjoyable that not buying until there are more of them doesn't seem to add up. HD is now mainstream technology.

I feel the same way. I was mainly waiting for the main networks in my area to start sending their hd feeds over TW cable. They all have been doing that for quite awhile now so I'm ready to buy. The stuff I mainly watch is on the main networks anyways. I mainly watch the hour long drama stuff and all the shows I watch in that category are in hidef.

I just hope that the statement "scheduled to be at retail as early as July" doesn't mean that the current June target date has been pushed back, but it sure looks that way.

Originally posted by RMSko
I just hope that the statement "scheduled to be at retail as early as July" doesn't mean that the current June target date has been pushed back, but it sure looks that way.

It'll be the worth the wait, the way this is shaping up! :)

Prices for Sammy models. Other brands would probably be very close to these prices. (http://www.audioholics.com/ces/CESdisplays/SamsungHLR5688W1080pDLP.php/)

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
That's exactly why I've been biding my time. The hardware is out there, but I just don't feel like I'm seeing that much HD programming out there YET to merit making a purchase. IF DirectTV puts up a bunch of new HD programming this summer, via the new satellites, and a few others things come into play, then I'll probably make a move.

I thought nearly all of D*'s HD channels were being slated to carry HD locals to most of the DMA's.

If you can already get HD locals via antenna, which a lot of people can, then D*'s stated "1500 new HD channels" may not deliver much new HD content to you at all. Although many will be happy when their NFL Sunday Ticket is all HD.

It would be great to get channels like Sci-Fi, TMC, Bravo, all of the HBO & Showtime & StarZ channels and more in HD. I'm tired of watching movies in compressed SD 4:3 Pan & Scan.

If the 68/78 series are not designed to accept a 1080P signal, then the real advantages to these models are 2 HDMI inputs and the improved PQ....correct? I realize this may be an oversimplification, but I am just trying to get the big picture here (no pun intended).

However, when the industry has caught up and programming is available in 1080P format, you will have to upgrade to a new TV that accepts this signal correct?

Your 68/78 series may need replacing due to age before they ever broadcast 1080p...

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
It'll be the worth the wait, the way this is shaping up! :)

Prices for Sammy models. Other brands would probably be very close to these prices. (http://www.audioholics.com/ces/CESdisplays/SamsungHLR5688W1080pDLP.php/)

I sure hope my 6168 isn't 56"!!! ;)

Originally posted by JDBull
If the 68/78 series are not designed to accept a 1080P signal, then the real advantages to these models are 2 HDMI inputs and the improved PQ....correct?

I think that 1080i inputs, de-interlaced to 1080p, will be a very much improved picture over the present 1080i and 720p HD pictures.

Originally posted by millerwill
I think that 1080i inputs, de-interlaced to 1080p, will be a very much improved picture over the present 1080i and 720p HD pictures.

Question:

(I'm quoting someone from another forum who made a very good point and he said it better than I probably would:

The only negative about these sets is that, apparently, they will not accept a 1080p signal as input. So, if you do find a 1080p source, you can't have the signal come into the display as 1080p, which ultimately defeats the purpose of a 1080p signal (DVD player, cable tuner, etc.) combined with a 1080p display, since there will still be some conversion going on somewhere in the process.

Can someone clear this up for me please?

Well, it is going to be true that this first 1080p displays will not have 1080p inputs. Perhaps there will be a time when this limitation may come into play as a weakness.

For now, there are no 1080p sources. HDTV broadcasts are 1080i. Even the, as yet unreleased, DVD HD standard is 1080i. There is a good chance that some DVD HD players will have a 1080p output option, at some time. First there will have to be output connections that support 1080p and a standard for that format. But even then, you are only talking about the difference of taking a 1080i source and converting it to 1080p in your DVD player as opposed to letting your TV do the same thing.

I would expect that as 1080p sources develop (and that may take years, especially if it is not included in the revised DVD HD standard) that those of us wanting to take full advantage of them would likely upgrade our TVs then, for less than what these sets cost now.

Originally posted by Tom_Bombadil
Well, it is going to be true that this first 1080p displays will not have 1080p inputs. Perhaps there will be a time when this limitation may come into play as a weakness.

For now, there are no 1080p sources. HDTV broadcasts are 1080i. Even the, as yet unreleased, DVD HD standard is 1080i. There is a good chance that some DVD HD players will have a 1080p output option, at some time. First there will have to be output connections that support 1080p and a standard for that format. But even then, you are only talking about the difference of taking a 1080i source and converting it to 1080p in your DVD player as opposed to letting your TV do the same thing.

I would expect that as 1080p sources develop (and that may take years, especially if it is not included in the revised DVD HD standard) that those of us wanting to take full advantage of them would likely upgrade our TVs then, for less than what these sets cost now.

Makes sense. So, in other words, if my DVD player is upscaling at 1080i over HDMI into this DLP, I'm still going to enjoy some sort of benefit, am I not? The TV will upscale that to 1080p? Or if I have satellite connected and it's transmitting either 720p or 1080i HD...these will be upscaled by the TV to 1080p?

The long answer is...yes.

Originally posted by Ed Weinman
The long answer is...yes.

Great.

One more question:

Tom Bombaldil wrote:

Well, it is going to be true that this first 1080p displays will not have 1080p inputs. Perhaps there will be a time when this limitation may come into play as a weakness.


What scenario(s) did you have in mind, Tom? I just want to be very clear on all of this.

At some point there will be very high quality 1080p sources. Perhaps a very high end DVD HD player will have vastly superior 1080i to 1080p conversion as opposed to what is built into your TV set. But it would need a way to deliver this stream to your set. This may be impossible with the first generation of 1080p sets, as the inputs are widely believed to be unable to accept a full bandwidth 1080p w/audio input stream.

Perhaps at some point in a few years, this could become commonplace technology. And 1080p sets that come out in 2007 may be able to accomodate it. (I'm just throwing out dates as examples, not projecting what will happen in which year.)

If so, then the 2nd/3rd gen 1080p sets will have a capability beyond what this years sets can offer. But as they are also likely to have other advantages, as say 3-chip DLP over 1-chip w/color wheel DLP, this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

I feel that most people who will want the ability to feed a full 1080p signal into their set will drop the dollars to buy sets and sources that can do this. But the vast viewing public is not going to have much concern about their 1080p sets being limited to 1080i sources, as those sources are of excellent quality - considering that this would include today's finest HD source material.

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
Makes sense. So, in other words, if my DVD player is upscaling at 1080i over HDMI into this DLP, I'm still going to enjoy some sort of benefit, am I not? The TV will upscale that to 1080p? Or if I have satellite connected and it's transmitting either 720p or 1080i HD...these will be upscaled by the TV to 1080p?

Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe deinterlacing and upscaling are two very different things. Upscaling from 480i/p to 720i/p or 1080i/p takes a lot of smarts and is done better by some chips than others, better by some DVD players than others, and better by some TVs than others.

Deinterlacing from 1080i to 1080p, on the other hand, is simple to do and doesn't change the RESOLUTION of the picture (you get the same number of pixels with 1080i as 1080p, you just get them in a different order).

So the bottom line would seem to be, why would anyone earlier in the digital food chain (namely, the people who produce the HD content or the people who manufacture the HD players) incur the extra expense of producing 1080p content when the HD sets can continue to deinterlace as they do now, with no loss of RESOLUTION at all?!

Deinterlacing isn't nearly as simple as you might think.

Originally posted by thommy

Deinterlacing from 1080i to 1080p, on the other hand, is simple to do ...

Not exactly! I've lurked a bit in the video processor forum where most of what they are concerned about flies right over my head. (They throw around terms such as bob deinterlacing, adaptive motion and reverse telecine...) But it's clear from their comments that de-interlacing is not simple and is not being done appropriately in most cases. For more than you've ever wanted to know, check this out:http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-10-2000.html Scroll down about two screens to get to the good stuff.

Has anyone of you seen the picture quality of the new HLR4677 DLP TV's
in the store display? Some of the store are selling it but they do not
seem to have a display yet. Also some of the store have a sale going on it
for $600 less than the MSRP while TV Authority and other stores in the
web are selling it for $2899. Do you think the first batch of HLR4677 sets
released by Samsung won't be that good since they would be packed
in hurry and that's the reason why they are comming for discounted price?.
Also does anyone have a good idea or have seen the PQ on the newer
HLR4667 (HD4 chip) TVs?


I am really pulling the trigger here to buy this HLR4677 now(though it does
not have the IEEE1394 compared to HLR4667 but has the HD2+ and center shelf), I badly need the center-shelf also and I like the sharp picture without wobulation, so I am seriously considering to buy it in a week since the price is also very good.

But I don't want to get disappinted if HLR4667 will have even better PQ due to
advancements in HD4 chip. So should I wait for HLR4667 and see it in store
before I making a decision to buy HLR4677?

The people on the Video processor forum are even smarter than the people who send PMs--they're even smart enough to be interesting to Rogo!

Always wait! If you post that here enough times you'll start receiving PMs!

The difference will not be solely in the deinterlacing, which indeed can make a visible difference, but will also be affected by other video processing.

Anyone who has compared the images straight from a decent DVD player vs through a high-end video processor, even if both are outputing 480p, can attest that there can be quite obvious differences.

Originally posted by AkaStp
In my case at least, I suppose it comes down to whether or not its worth waiting a few extra months (and paying a bunch more $$$) for a 1080p set (which may not even be available in 50" size) or getting a HLR5067 720p set when they become available within the next month. I suspect I'll opt for the latter.


If it is noticable at 50" it probably won't be dramatic, especially at 13 feet. I would guess it would have to go for $1000 diff but that difference may not show up until the units are sitting side by side.

So I am going to opt to wait. I have the same physical problem (my cabinet is 54 1/2 x 35.5 x 22" I would love to get a 56 but I have to find another 3/4" of room (I am looking at prying off the base of my cabinet).

This brings up another thing. the 77's have the thin bezel and a smaller hieght. The 78's are described as having the regular bezel and larger height. Is this really true and we cannot expect the 77 and 78 to use the same case?

Either way I am waiting. I will either pay the extra $ for the 1080p (up to $1000 or so) or I will use the 1080p to leverage why I should get a better deal on an old outdated technology (720p).

Originally posted by ccouper
This brings up another thing. the 77's have the thin bezel and a smaller hieght. The 78's are described as having the regular bezel and larger height. Is this really true and we cannot expect the 77 and 78 to use the same case?

The 77 & 78's have different cases.

Though consecutively numbered, the 77's and 78's are not really "related." The 77's are the limited production models that upgraded the 74's with a tuner and cable card capability. The 74's had the original thin bezel case and this carries thru with the '77's. On the other hand, the 78's are related to the 68's in capability (i.e., 1080p). Though internally identical, the 68's & 78's were evidently intended for different markets. The 78's with the ugly (IMHO) black lacquer, reflective bezel were intended for higher scale sellers while the typical places us peons frequent were due to get the floating screen of the 68's.

See pictures in post #1.

So then I am doomed to a 50" set if I want 1080P since there will be no small bezel 1080P devices? I may be able to invent 3/4" from nowhere, but I cannot get 2 or more inches.

Originally posted by donb1948
Not exactly! I've lurked a bit in the video processor forum where most of what they are concerned about flies right over my head. (They throw around terms such as bob deinterlacing, adaptive motion and reverse telecine...) But it's clear from their comments that de-interlacing is not simple and is not being done appropriately in most cases. For more than you've ever wanted to know, check this out:http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-10-2000.html Scroll down about two screens to get to the good stuff.

You see? I really AM a blithering idiot! After reading most of the reference, I will never again say that deinterlacing is simple!

I will, however, continue to say that deinterlacing and upscaling are two different processes and that converting from 1080i to 1080p is not upscaling -- it's deinterlacing.

At least for the time being... :D

Thanks for the excellent reference, donb!

Originally posted by ccouper
So then I am doomed to a 50" set if I want 1080P since there will be no small bezel 1080P devices? I may be able to invent 3/4" from nowhere, but I cannot get 2 or more inches.

The news may be worse than that, as there is no guarantee that they are going to release a 50" 1080p set. Rumors abound that the 5078 may never materialize. The 56" may be the smallest 1080p to come out this year.

Originally posted by AkaStp
I don't have room for a 70" screen. I did say that the biggest size TV that will fit in our A/V equipment nook is the 50" model. :)
However I would be mighty impressed if you could come up with a way to fit a 70" TV (or even a 61" or 56") in an opening that is 52" wide by 35" high by 20" deep. ;)
That aside, I (or more importantly the wife) would not want a TV bigger than 55" in our Family room. So the point of my question is (still) is there any advantage to having a 1080p screen in a 50" size at a viewing distance of 10-13'.

You can get a HLP5674 or HLP5677 (both 56" screens) into a space 52" wide. These DLP's are just a smidgen under 50 50" wide, due to the thin bezel design. Now are you mighty impressed? Be sure to check the height, but width wise, you will be ok.

Originally posted by thommy
I will, however, continue to say that deinterlacing and upscaling are two different processes and that converting from 1080i to 1080p is not upscaling -- it's deinterlacing.

Yep... No disagreement there.

Now would you like a reference to an equally entertaining article on the Chroma Upscaling Error (CUE) that most upscaling DVD players screw up?:)

I've taken the time to go through this thread, especially the first "master" post. I guess the forthcoming 78 series wil be "the most current" and the one I should shoot for. If I'm going to do this, I think either 50 or 56 will do the job quite nicely.

I wonder how the comparable Mitsubishi and other brands' DLPs will be vs. these?

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
I guess the forthcoming 78 series wil be "the most current" and the one I should shoot for. If I'm going to do this, I think either 50 or 56 will do the job quite nicely.

A small point of clarification.... The 68 and 78 series are electronically and feature identical. The only difference is the 68 has the floating screen and the 78 has the black bezel case. However, there is still some uncertainty as to whether the 78 series will be produced. If the 78 series is produced, it was announced to include a 50" screen. No 50" display is planned for the 68 series. It is thought that a 50" 68 series display will be produced if the 78 series is cancelled.

As to the main issue in your post, sorry, I have no information on relative performance.

Originally posted by donb1948
A small point of clarification.... The 68 and 78 series are electronically and feature identical. The only difference is the 68 has the floating screen and the 78 has the black bezel case. However, there is still some uncertainty as to whether the 78 series will be produced. If the 78 series is produced, it was announced to include a 50" screen. No 50" display is planned for the 68 series. It is thought that a 50" 68 series display will be produced if the 78 series is cancelled.

Sure, I understand. We'll keep an eye out on that. A lot can still change between now and July.



As to the main issue in your post, sorry, I have no information on relative performance.

No worries. :)

I got my HLR4677W a couple of days ago. I have found the disrete codes for all inputs except the antenna/cable one. The way the TV works is that you can toggle through the inputs to get to the TV (air or cable) input. Once on that input you have to go to the channel menu where you can toggle between air and cable. Ideally I like to have a discrete for TV (air) and one for TV(cable).

I have tried several pronto files from remote central and several suggestions from various forums but can't seem to find one that works. I actually need this for a OFA remote but I can use pronto codes to get there. I tried pronto and OFA(EFC 251) codes for antenna they did not work. Any help would be appreciated. BTW I posted the question the the HLP Discrete Code thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=5515442#post5515442) a couple of days ago but have not yet received a response. It seems like all the people in the know regarding the new models are hanging out in this thread. Thanks.

Jay

This is kind of a stupid question, but I will definitely need a shelf for my center channel speaker. If I got an 88 series DLP, that means that TV already is coming on a pedestool like stand and that's all she wrote, yes?

Right now, I'm getting off super easy. My center channel speaker sits securely on top of my bulky 32 inch HD CRT tube. ;)

So, for me, I probably should look at the 68 or 78 series instead and then buy the accompanying stand that goes with that TV? The innards of all these new DLP's forthcoming are essentially the same, yes? That's the idea I get after looking over everything in that first post of this thread. It's just a matter of aesthetics between the 68,78, and 88 series?

I'm not tech guru, but reading the TI literature has me believing that the new chips in these 1080p displays MIGHT have been improved enough to eliminate the cause of the rainbow effect that some people see with these in the past. (If I understand correctly the process that occurs that creates that effect.)

Edit: I notice the contrast ratio of 10,000:1 on the 68 and 78 series easily exceeds the 5000:1 contrast ratio on the 88 series. Very interesting.

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
This is kind of a stupid question, but I will definitely need a shelf for my center channel speaker. If I got an 88 series DLP, that means that TV already is coming on a pedestool like stand and that's all she wrote, yes?

Right now, I'm getting off super easy. My center channel speaker sits securely on top of my bulky 32 inch HD CRT tube. ;)

So, for me, I probably should look at the 68 or 78 series instead and then buy the accompanying stand that goes with that TV? The innards of all these new DLP's forthcoming are essentially the same, yes? That's the idea I get after looking over everything in that first post of this thread. It's just a matter of aesthetics between the 68,78, and 88 series?

I'm not tech guru, but reading the TI literature has me believing that the new chips in these 1080p displays MIGHT have been improved enough to eliminate the cause of the rainbow effect that some people see with these in the past. (If I understand correctly the process that occurs that creates that effect.)

Edit: I notice the contrast ratio of 10,000:1 on the 68 and 78 series easily exceeds the 5000:1 contrast ratio on the 88 series. Very interesting.

I'm not completely convinced that the 88 series is internally identical to the 68 / 78. The 88 series model was in the product pipeline before the 68 / 78. It uses a vertical light engine ... could be better or worst? Initially, the 88 series was slated to have the xHD3 chip in it. It has been held up for months, perhaps to use the newer 1080p DLP chip (my guess). Since they didn't show the 88 series at CES, no one has seen one. So there is very little data. The safe assumption would be to inspect both the 88 series and 68 / 78 series and see if you can detect any differences after they are available.

Originally posted by UCSB
I'm not completely convinced that the 88 series is internally identical to the 68 / 78. The 88 series model was in the product pipeline before the 68 / 78. It uses a vertical light engine ... could be better or worst? Initially, the 88 series was slated to have the xHD3 chip in it. It has been held up for months, perhaps to use the newer 1080p DLP chip (my guess). Since they didn't show the 88 series at CES, no one has seen one. So there is very little data. The safe assumption would be to inspect both the 88 series and 68 / 78 series and see if you can detect any differences after they are available.

Agreed. FWIW, as I'm really taking in the information in that first post of this thread, it appears that the 88 series takes a hit on the following, vs. the 68 or 78 series.

Contrast Ratio = 5000:1 vs. 10,000:1 on the 68's and 78's. CR is vital on any set like this, and that's a signifigant difference, at least on paper.

The use of a DLP Chip: xHD3 --- as described in TI DLP brochure vs. a xHD4 chip on the 68 and 78 series.

Just these two items alone, on paper, pretty much knock out the 88 series for my consideration...center channel speaker considerations notwithstanding. ;)

If someone made a movie of nook and video cabinet terrorists using chain saws and fitting big displays in would it make most posters here break down crying?

No crying here. I think we would just form a "cabinet terrorist" vigilante squad! (thats after we debated the various sizes and specifications of said vigilante squad) :D :D




Boy, I hate these periods of little or no news. Hopefully there will be something from the NY Home Entertainment Show next weekend.

My wife would not go for ripping out the fireplace, either. That's why I'm limited to about 56". (I thought we were more compatible when we married 26 years ago.)

Hi,

Will any of these sets have DDC/EDID on either VGA or HDMI ports? These new 1080p sets are a godsend to HTPCers and gamers, iff they can be driven at 1080p with the new gen of high-resolution high-performance vidcards..

BTW, single-link TMDS DVI supports up to 1920x1200@60hz at least... And analog VGA ran great 1920x1200 for me years ago.. And @75hz fairly recently on a GF5900 board..

Originally posted by AkaStp
Height is more of a consideration than width. It has to fit in both dimensions. I already considered the 5674 and 5677. The problem is the height. They are an inch too high for my space. The 9" deep center speaker shelf also creates a problem (if the back of the case behind the top of the bezel were indented like on the 63s and 67s it could fit if set forward a couple of inches). Believe me, I have looked into the dimensions of all the different sets ad-nauseum and tried to get creative about how to get them to fit but just can't do it without major remodeling. Maybe I should post a picture of my nook.
I believe some of the Samsungs have a removable base/stand, but I don't know if the 5674/77 is one of them. Some posters have reported removing the base without losing any stability, and that might buy you some height IF the 5674/77's do indeed have them.

It's only the 61" (and the upcoming larger ones) that have the removable 'foot'.

Originally posted by AkaStp
I have come up with various creative ways of trying to get a 55-56" TV to fit but none of them have passed the WAF. Anyway, I don't want to belabor this (or have video cabinet terrorist squads running around with chainsaws) suffice it to say that the 50" model is the only one that will fit my space. The point that seems to have been strayed from was really about whether or not 1080p would be worthwhile on a 50" set at a 10-13' vieweing distance and not whether a bigger TV could be made to fit by remodeling or using chainsaws, explosives, or whatever. I believe the question was answered about the merits of a 50" 1080p display at 10-13'. Thanks.

Just my quickie, ignorant $0.02 probably: 50 inches of 1080p at that distance is still something pretty darned nice! :)

(This waiting is a killer!)

Originally posted by Ed Weinman
(This waiting is a killer!)

Amen!

I have been reading this thread for some time now and need some advice. I am in the market for a new TV and always find myself looking at the Samsung DLP. So, I have decided that is what I will buy. Now, my question is what model would be the best for me??

I am about 11' from my current TV so I assume a 50" is plenty big. Second, should I buy the 78/68 series when they get released or buy the 67 series. Will there be a noticeable difference to the casual viewer between the 78 model and the 67 model. Also, should I wait for the 78/68 release or just buy the 67 when available. Mostly, would be watching plenty of HD sports and DVDs. I just want to know if the 78 or 68 will be that much better to watch than the 67.

Any advice would help. I just want a new TV.

Originally posted by 8inchworm
I just want to know if the 78 or 68 will be that much better to watch than the 67.
You will have to wait and see.

I think you can go to 61" with a 1080p set at 11'. The bigger the screen the better DVDs and HD sports will be. With a 50' screen there will be less difference.

I sit at 11' and my 57" is too small. I'll get the 61" 1080P set but I wish they had something a couple of inches larger. The 67" is $2400 more and thats a huge premium for 6 more inches. Considering the 56" will be only $400 less than the 61".

According to the up-to-date first post, the 67" price is still in question.

that answers the size of screen but what about the specific models (720 or 1080 technology). Will the 1080 blow away the 720 or will there not be that much of a difference? So, if I am watching a DVD or a football game, will there be a noticeable difference between the two sets? or is the 1080 technology too far ahead of HD at this time. In other words, is it worth the extra money and time to wait???

People who saw the two side by side at CES said yes... although only you could really saw for sure since its a matter of opinion.

Although we really have to wait to see and compare the new models, I'm anticipating the increased contrast ratio of the 1080 models as much as, if not more than, the increased resolution. Although I'm not sure I'll see the difference in resolution, I'll bet the difference in contrast ratio will be easy to spot. And then there's the fact that the 1080 models will have 2 HDMI inputs.

Originally posted by thommy
Although we really have to wait to see and compare the new models, I'm anticipating the increased contrast ratio of the 1080 models as much as, if not more than, the increased resolution. Although I'm not sure I'll see the difference in resolution, I'll bet the difference in contrast ratio will be easy to spot. And then there's the fact that the 1080 models will have 2 HDMI inputs.

Well put... I feel the same way.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=516663

Threads like these don't help my confidence. I'm a notorious fence sitter anyways, but...geez.

I'm kind of chuckling at someone saying that "57 inches is too small at 11 feet." Heck, I'm at about 9 feet or so with 32 inches. How do ya think I feel? :p

I'm going to into this thing as a lifelong CRT Tube LOVER. That's the standard I'm going to carry into any future display purchase. On paper, the DLP technology seems to be in the lead right now as the successsor to that. I certainly have been blown away by the DLP's I've seen and demoed in various stores.

I guess the only other option for me would be to wait for SED to become a reality, but that's probably 2007 or 2008 before they become remotely affordable.

I really would like to graduate from a 32 inch CRT Tube with success. Can it be done?

Those threads sound great. There was a problem with the bearings in the color wheels , and now they have an air bearing color wheel to address the problems they had in the past. That means the newer sets are less likely to have problems with that part since they made improvements to it.
This makes me much more likely to get a DLP from Samsung because I know they are improving the product every year. It's in their best interst to have a product that doesn't fail and they definitely have shown that they are willing to improve their pproduct each year.

Originally posted by aaronwt
Those threads sound great. There was a problem with the bearings in the color wheels , and now they have an air bearing color wheel to address the problems they had in the past. That means the newer sets are less likely to have problems with that part since they made improvements to it.
This makes me much more likely to get a DLP from Samsung because I know they are improving the product every year. It's in their best interst to have a product that doesn't fail and they definitely have shown that they are willing to improve their pproduct each year.

I know Samsung has really been kicking butt over the last couple of years with the LCD market, these, and some other ends. I think the Wall Street Journal even cited them as "one of the most profitable companies in consumer electronics right now" earlier this week, which really blew me away.

I have an LCD PC monitor from them and it's great. Are they, in fact, a good company, overall, or should I wait for another brand name (Mitsubishi, Toshiba, etc.?) to come out with a comparable DLP set like these forthcoming 1080p's?

I really don't mean that question in a smart aleck fashion. I'm a bit new to this territory! ;)

If I make a move on one of these this summer, it's a brand new territory for me, as a lifelong tube lover. I'm someone who always sings the praises of CRT tubes to the bitter end. ;)

I figure the others aren't too shabby themselves, since they've been in the TV bidness for a long time and Samsung is relative newcomer although they are longest for DLP technology. Mitsubishi seems to be decent - as are the others. Mitsubishi, I think you would agree, makes excellent "tube" TVs so no reason why they can't keep up with Samsung.

Originally posted by AkaStp
The improved color wheel is definitely a step in the right direction.
I really hope Samsung fix the screen "smudges" problem in the upcoming HLR sets (720p as well as 1080p).
Fixing the lip synch problem would also be desireable (though I'm not a video-gamer).

I'm a videogamer. Please elaborate for me. What synch issue are you talking about?

Originally posted by AkaStp
Fixing the lip synch problem would also be desireable (though I'm not a video-gamer). Could someone please explain the "lip synch" problem with the Samsung DLPs? Does it happen with external sources or the internal tuner or both? I just purchased a HLR4677W and have been having some lip sync issues and I'm not sure what's causing it. While I'm awaiting a long set a component cables I am currently using a SD Directivo with optical out to a Panasonic XR50 receiver (not using the TV speakers at all). The audio is ahead of the video by a small amount. I have seen in that the audio and video can sometimes get out of sync with the Directivos. Usually hitting pause then play fixes it but it seems like that's not working now. Thanks in advance.

Jay

I have been looking at Samsung DLP 50" TV's of varying model numbers and anxiously awaiting the new models like everyone else. For the first time my wife went with me to look at DLP TV's. She had previously said, "Find what you want to buy and I will come look at it." Next to the Samsung HL-P5063W is a Sony 55" KDF55WF655 LCD television. As I had noticed before, this Sony PQ is much clearer than the Samsung, especially when written text or numbers or symbols are displayed. She also noticed this as well. As I have been slanted towards the DLP's, tell me again why I should not buy the Sony with the better PQ as witnessed by my eyes and my wife's eyes. Every thing I read says DLP, but my own personal taste said to buy the new Sony 55" TV. I know there are pros and cons for all types of TV's but for Picture Quality, I seemed to prefer the Sony. Not trying to stir up the Samsung faithful, but having second thoughts. Please help me make up my mind. WolfpackRon.

Here are three threads with sync information.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=482301&highlight=sync

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=412073&highlight=sync

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=295677&highlight=sync

A friend of mine who owns one of the 80 series DLP's (I know this because it's on a pedestool, like the 80 series usually are) is a videogamer. This was his response when I asked him about the synch issue and smearing issues with these DLPs. (I think he owns the 50 inch 87, but I'm not 100 percent sure.)


The only thing I can think of is that it might be the 480i delay that's causing the lipsyncing problem. For some reason, when feeding a 480i signal, it gets delayed by a tiny amount. Enough to notice a sync shift.

Right now, the only sources feeding a 480i signal to my DLP are my DVD player, and my PS2 with games that don't support 480p.

It's interesting to note that he doesn't have an Xbox that typically has games in 480p (A few in 720p.)



With the DVD player, you can't really tell all that much. But while playing a PS2 game through 480i, it's brutally apparant.

Not sure what DVD player he has, but obviously it's nothing super high end. ;)


All other resolutions are displayed just fine.

So, does this jibe with what everyone else has seen with these DLPs? 480i has synch, everything else is great?


Oh, and someone mention that there is a smudge problem on the Sammy DLPs. I'm pretty sure I have that problem too. The smudges appear as darker, or lighter pixels, but only by a tiny difference. They are especially noticeable when I first turn it on for the day. But they start to disappear as I'm watching TV. It's not really annoying, but I know they're there. I thought they were because of dust build of within the unit. But now I'm not sure what it is.

Does anyone know what these smears are? These are the kinds of things I'm glad to learn about BEFORE I plunk down $5000 on a new display. (Or a lot less.) I really hope these sorts of things are improved upon very soon.

Thanks for your reply AkaStp,
That was very well written and I agree with your answer to buy what WE like and feel good about buying. I am still looking though. I have not given up on DLP's yet. Neither of us have seen rainbow effects and I did not see the screen door effect except very close to the TV. While in the store the other day, a person said he could see the sde at 10' or 12' back from the Sony LCD. I think the HL-P5085W TV was closer in PQ to the Sony 60" LCD which was displayed side by side." Still Looking! WolfpackRon.

Originally posted by wolfpackron
Thanks for your reply AkaStp,
That was very well written and I agree with your answer to buy what WE like and feel good about buying. I am still looking though. I have not given up on DLP's yet. Neither of us have seen rainbow effects and I did not see the screen door effect except very close to the TV. While in the store the other day, a person said he could see the sde at 10' or 12' back from the Sony LCD. I think the HL-P5085W TV was closer in PQ to the Sony 60" LCD which was displayed side by side." Still Looking! WolfpackRon.

I feel ya. I just want to have an appreciable upgrade from a 32 inch 4:3 HD CRT Tube.

What does SSE stand for? Thanks, WolfpackRon.

Originally posted by htwaits
Here are three threads with sync information.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=482301&highlight=sync

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=412073&highlight=sync

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=295677&highlight=sync
Thanks for the links. Wow there are 229 pages in those links with some posts as old as 2003. Would anyone like to do me a BIG favor and give me a short summary of problems/solutions with regards to the current HLR models? I'm pretty sure some of you guys are Samsung DLP experts and know this stuff cold. Unfortunately I am fairly new to the DLP world. Thanks again for the help.

Jay

Originally posted by AkaStp
There are a few long threads nearby about lip synch problems with the Samsung HLP and HLN models pertaining to external sources (such as DVD players) with A/V receivers as well as video game consoles like Xbox and PS2. A search on Samsung Lip Synch will probably unearth plenty of info.

I have heard of the PS2 lip sync issues but this is the first I have heard that regular DVD playback also can have the lip sync issue. Is this true? If so this has to be a show stopper for DLP's. Why would you want a projection device that cannot keep up with the signal sent to it?

Originally posted by jerndl
Wow there are 229 pages in those links with some posts as old as 2003.
Start with the latest messages and work your way backward. That way you will get up to date information. You will find that you don't have to read all that much.

Some video delay is caused by the video processing needed to convert 480i to 720p. The most common area that people have complained about comes from playing some 480i based games where timing is most important.

There can be video delay cause when a TV program is created or transmitted, when a movie transfered to DVD, by your STB, or during video processing in your TV. Most of the time there is not not enough video delay to be a problem.

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
A friend of mine who owns one of the 80 series DLP's (I know this because it's on a pedestool, like the 80 series usually are) is a videogamer. This was his response when I asked him about the synch issue and smearing issues with these DLPs. (I think he owns the 50 inch 87, but I'm not 100 percent sure.)



It's interesting to note that he doesn't have an Xbox that typically has games in 480p (A few in 720p.)

Oh, but I do Q. ;)

I have all current gen consoles. And since pretty much all games are 480p for the XBOX, I don't have any problems with sync loss. The only console giving me a problem is my PS2 with 480i games. I haven't tried connecting my Gamecube to my DLP; I haven't ordered the component cables from Nintendo yet.

The DVD player I have is an old Sony; early adopter.

Originally posted by victor_c26
Oh, but I do Q. ;)

I have all current gen consoles. And since pretty much all games are 480p for the XBOX, I don't have any problems with sync loss. The only console giving me a problem is my PS2 with 480i games. I haven't tried connecting my Gamecube to my DLP; I haven't ordered the component cables from Nintendo yet.

The DVD player I have is an old Sony; early adopter.

Ah! I didn't know you were a member here! :) This is the friend of mine that I quoted a few posts back. He can speak for himself just fine!

Ok, so it sounds like the smudge issue is on its way out. That's great. Now we'll have to see what becomes of this synch issue...

Originally posted by AkaStp
And sometimes it is the HD source. For example, there was a bad lip synch delay problem on the "Days of Thunder" movie on HDNetMovies channel last night. It even occurred while using the TV's speakers. I flipped to some other channels and there was no problem with them so I assumed the problem was with that particular broadcast.

This will make everyone feel better:

Even on my 32 inch HD CRT tube with OTA HD use...CBS HD has a pretty bad synch issue almost all the time for me. It's bad enough that sometimes, I just can't even stand to watch it. That's sad.

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
This will make everyone feel better:

Even on my 32 inch HD CRT tube with OTA HD use...CBS HD has a pretty bad synch issue almost all the time for me. It's bad enough that sometimes, I just can't even stand to watch it. That's sad.

Yeah, I haven't gotten any sync issues with an HD broadcast. The only noticeable sync loss I get is from my PS2. That's pretty much it.

I just read the smudge thread, and I can confirm that that is the exact same problem I'm having. I'll try the wiping trick when I can, to see how that works.

Originally posted by AkaStp
Are you using the Hi-Def interface (component) pack with your Xbox? That is apparently the solution for any audio/video synch problems the Xbox, right?

Yeah, I figured that I might as well just purchase the component cables for the XBOX already, to get the best possible picture.

I picked up the new version of the HD pack for the XBOX (if it matters); it's only the component cables with the optical out right on the AV connector.

Bad Aka! Bad boy! :D

Originally posted by AkaStp
I've never quite really understood the overall benefits of ever increasing contrast ratios so would appreciate being enlightened. Does it have the effect of boosting the overall picture brightness (and thus resulting in having to decrease the contrast setting to return to the brightness level of previous models with lower contrast ratios) to the levels of the JVC D-ILAs (which IMO are way too bright) and RP LCDs? Is there really that much of a benefit going from a contrast ratio of 1000:1 (my 2.5 year old Samsung HLM507) to 1500:1 (HLPxx63) to 2000:1 or 2500:1 (upcoming HLRxx67) and beyond to 5000:1 or 10000:1? If so, what is that benefit?

Two Words: Blacker Blacks

The real excitement about increasing contrast ratios is that there should be better shadow detail, I am sure brightness is going up some as well but no one is too interested in that.

Aka, don't worry. I appreciate all your help with the links. :)

Originally posted by John_Jones_CA
Two Words: Blacker Blacks

The real excitement about increasing contrast ratios is that there should be better shadow detail, I am sure brightness is going up some as well but no one is too interested in that.

The 10,000:1 contrast ratio on this forthcoming batch of DLP's is downright sick! You've spelled out EXACTLY why I'm excited about that feature (among many others with those units.)

Originally posted by AkaStp
We are in the "Samsung 2005 DLP HDTV Discussion --- HLRxxxxW Models" discussing issues (lip synch, a/v delays, smudges, etc) with the HLPs (and prior) models when there are already several other threads dedicated to such problems. I'm not sure about the others, but I am specifically discussing an issue with a new 2005 HLRxxxxW model, so I think it's appropriate for this thread. In a couple of days hopefully I'll be to give a definitive answer as to whether or not the the Samsung has a problem. I will be connecting the output of my HD Directivo to a distribution amp (component video and digital audio) and then going to a Mitsubishi HD crt RPTV w/Onkyo 898 receiver and to a HLR4677W w/Panasonic XR50 receiver. If there are sync issues with the Samsung setup and not the Mits then there is definitely a problem. BTW the new Samsung replaced an old 31" CRT TV which was used w/ the same Panasonic receiver and multiple Directivos (both HD and SD) and I did not have any serious sync issues.

If the Samsung turns out to be a problem is there any way to fix it other than use a receiver that can add delay to the audio? Is there some video processing in the TV that you can turn off? If the problem is with 480i programming this will be an issue for me because I use this TV with both an HD Tivo and an SD Tivo. I'll report back in a couple of days after I have done some actual testing. Thanks.

Jay

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
This will make everyone feel better:

Even on my 32 inch HD CRT tube with OTA HD use...CBS HD has a pretty bad synch issue almost all the time for me. It's bad enough that sometimes, I just can't even stand to watch it. That's sad. I have had various HDTV systems for almost 5 years and have had only occasional sync issues. What concerned me about the Samsung is that I was just watching SD directv via s-video and having a problem. Hopefully I will be able to get to the bottom of this shortly. All I have right now is anecdotal (sp) evidence that there is a problem.

Jay

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
The 10,000:1 contrast ratio on this forthcoming batch of DLP's is downright sick! ...

This recent press release by TI(?) - http://www.audioholics.com/news/pressreleases/1080pDLPTVs.php reads in part as follows: The 1080p DLP chip offers a variety of features to customers that allow them to differentiate their TVs: ... DynamicBlack™: System level solution which provides dramatic increases in system contrast ratio and grayscale fidelity by as much as 4x, bringing greater detail to dark scenes and images and allowing customers to achieve contrast ratios well above 5000:1.

Any idea where the 10000:1 ratio comes from? Is a factor of 2 increase considered "well above?" Does Samsung use some proprietary methodology (e.g., light engine or whatever) to boost contrast to the "well above" value of 10000:1?

The 10,000:1 came from CES (that is the number that was on the placecards in front of the sets - see post #1). There was considerable debate at the time as to whether it was real. I believe that Samsung will advertise the sets at 5,000:1 when they actually come out.

If I'm not mistaken, there is a post (somewhere here) that referred to the 10,000's specification actually showing as 5,000 in Japan (for whatever that means).

Very interesting. Well...5000:1 is hardly anything to snivel at, on paper. The proof will ultimately be in the pudding when we can all walk into the store and see these things with our own eyes. ;)

The TI demo claimed 6000:1 contrast ratio. That's the number I'd trust.

Originally posted by jerndl
I'm not sure about the others, but I am specifically discussing an issue with a new 2005 HLRxxxxW model, so I think it's appropriate for this thread.
This thread is features and speculation thread. :)

There will be a user's thread for each variety of HLR set. Why not be the one to start one for your model? You can dedicate it to sync issues or general issues and information.

Originally posted by Ed Weinman
If I'm not mistaken, there is a post (somewhere here) that referred to the 10,000's specification actually showing as 5,000 in Japan (for whatever that means).
I think it was 10,000:1 in Korea and ~5,000:1 here. Probably the cards at CES were done at the home office. :rolleyes:

The actual number doesn't mean a lot.

Originally posted by htwaits
I think it was 10,000:1 in Korea and ~5,000:1 here.

Must be that pesky metric system. :)

I have a hlp6163 that I have been extemely pleased with, but do have an arrangement to be able to swap it for one of the upcoming 1080p sets (going for as big as I can get!). Though I've liked my Sammy hlp, I am not necessarily wedded to Samsung, and the recently announced Mits 73" 1080p sets really look interesting; the 73727 (without the internal DVR) has annouced a SRP of 'only' $5800, which looks pretty good compared to the Sammy 67" and 70" sets (and it's bigger!).

But the current Mits 720p dlp's have had some problems (as have the Sammy's), e.g., a 'bright spot' problem, some allignment problems, and some loud fan problems. Is it possible to get any unbiased views here (I've also asked this in the Mits' threads) comparing the Mits and Sammy dlp's? E.g., are the various 'problems' the two have had roughly comparable? Are there any really serious flaws in the Mits that I am not aware of? I do of course realize that most people here are partial to Samsung, but I'm sure that are some of you much more knowledgeable than me that might have some insights regarding the two that would be very useful.

Samsung will drop the tenative retail price of the 67" from $7K to $5.5K. I would get the 67" at that price, otherwise it's the 61" for me. I guess we'll find out the final pricing by the end of MAy. Or will th eprices already announced set in stone.

Originally posted by millerwill
I have a hlp6163 that I have been extemely pleased with, but do have an arrangement to be able to swap it for one of the upcoming 1080p sets (going for as big as I can get!). Though I've liked my Sammy hlp, I am not necessarily wedded to Samsung, and the recently announced Mits 73" 1080p sets really look interesting; the 73727 (without the internal DVR) has annouced a SRP of 'only' $5800, which looks pretty good compared to the Sammy 67" and 70" sets (and it's bigger!).

But the current Mits 720p dlp's have had some problems (as have the Sammy's), e.g., a 'bright spot' problem, some allignment problems, and some loud fan problems. Is it possible to get any unbiased views here (I've also asked this in the Mits' threads) comparing the Mits and Sammy dlp's? E.g., are the various 'problems' the two have had roughly comparable? Are there any really serious flaws in the Mits that I am not aware of? I do of course realize that most people here are partial to Samsung, but I'm sure that are some of you much more knowledgeable than me that might have some insights regarding the two that would be very useful.

I would recommend going down to Magnolia HiFi and carefully evaluating the Mits yourself. As a current HDTV and DLP owner, you will be able to make a good evaluation. I was looking at Mits last week, but don't want to bias your view one way or the other. Also, ask a couple of the Magnolia sales people what they think. It is better to contrast two or three brands. Their most senior people will be able to quickly help you work through the strenghts and weaknesses. I haven't looked at the 73" specs, but the first question I would ask: Does it have the reflective screen protector over the screen? If the answer was yes, I wouldn't have to ask any further questions.

The current Mitsubishi screen protectors are removable. I don't see why a screen that is removable would be something that keeps you from buying a particular TV. It was a good feature for me, with a 2 year old in the house. And when he is a little older, I can remove the protective screen and snap in the free trim kit that I got with the TV.

Originally posted by millerwill
I have a hlp6163 that I have been extemely pleased with, but do have an arrangement to be able to swap it for one of the upcoming 1080p sets (going for as big as I can get!). Though I've liked my Sammy hlp, I am not necessarily wedded to Samsung, and the recently announced Mits 73" 1080p sets really look interesting; the 73727 (without the internal DVR) has annouced a SRP of 'only' $5800, which looks pretty good compared to the Sammy 67" and 70" sets (and it's bigger!).

But the current Mits 720p dlp's have had some problems (as have the Sammy's), e.g., a 'bright spot' problem, some allignment problems, and some loud fan problems. Is it possible to get any unbiased views here (I've also asked this in the Mits' threads) comparing the Mits and Sammy dlp's? E.g., are the various 'problems' the two have had roughly comparable? Are there any really serious flaws in the Mits that I am not aware of? I do of course realize that most people here are partial to Samsung, but I'm sure that are some of you much more knowledgeable than me that might have some insights regarding the two that would be very useful.

I have not yet seen any 1080p DLP's announced outside of Samsung. Would you mind providing a link so I can see what Mitsubish has up their sleeve? Thanks!

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
I have not yet seen any 1080p DLP's announced outside of Samsung. Would you mind providing a link so I can see what Mitsubish has up their sleeve? Thanks!

I don't know how to do the 'link thing', but if you scroll through the 'Rear Projection' Forum you will soon see the 2005 Mitsubishi thread.

UCSB: Yes, the glary screen is also not appealing to me, but as Shape pointed out, it can be removed, and the underneath screen is supposedly the same as Samsungs. Also, in the 2005 Mits thread someone reported that the 1080p units shown as their recent Orlando 'coming out' party did not have the glare screen on them. And yes, I have looked at the Mits dlp's at Mag HiFi, and the PQ looked outstanding; sometimes better than the Sammy Kirks, and sometimes only equivalent. I am just a little concerned about the various 'problems' I've heard about the Mits (but I also know that 'problems' get blown out of proportion here in the Forum--because people here are very picky (thankfully so!), and also people with problems are more vocal, naturally so; there are long threads on Sammy 'problems'.) It's also some concern that Mits doesn't seem to be as accommodating about 'problems' as Samsung has been; though I presume that if one buys from a place like MagHiFi the service support comes directly from them and not Samsung or Mits.

Originally posted by millerwill
It's also some concern that Mits doesn't seem to be as accommodating about 'problems' as Samsung has been...

One item that I would research and understand about Mits is whether or not they are going to be offering firmware upgrades directly to customers. It is my understanding (I'm not 100% sure) that Mits units currently have the ability to upgrade firmware via a memory card slot. If this is the case, this would seem to be a big plus with a new technology and might allow them to tweak or fix problems (and share improvements). I have been thinking about adding a question about firmware upgrades to our current open issues in POST #1 for the past couple of months.

Yes, I have received 2 firmware updates on compact flash cards for my Mitsubishi TV since I have owned it. And they have both fixed issues. The first one fixed the cablecard support. The second one fixed some "remote lag" when switching inputs, and also fixed a bug that wouldn't let some receivers automatically switch between digital and analog sound inputs when using the internal tuner with digital and analog sources.

This cablecard stuff seems to be really complex. Lots of manufacturers have issues getting them to work. Mitsu did, too, but at least they are fixing them in a timely manner.

UCSB, I think the upgrade question would be a great one to add. Clearly there is a port on the upcoming sets for upgrading, but will Samsung let users upgrade using it or can only an authorized service person person use it?

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
I have not yet seen any 1080p DLP's announced outside of Samsung. Would you mind providing a link so I can see what Mitsubish has up their sleeve? Thanks!
Here are the Mitsubishi announcements:

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages/mitsubishi05san.htm
http://www.hometheatermag.com/news/041305mitsubishi/
http://twice.com/article/CA525611.html?display=News
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/050408/85012.html?.v=1
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/050408/85013.html?.v=1

Here is the AVS thread:

New Mitsubishi 1080 DLP Announced (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=528548&highlight=WD73727)

Originally posted by aaronwt
Samsung will drop the tenative retail price of the 67" from $7K to $5.5K. I would get the 67" at that price, otherwise it's the 61" for me. I guess we'll find out the final pricing by the end of MAy. Or will th eprices already announced set in stone.

Any word if they will be dropping the price on their 70" set?