Now that CES 2005 is wrapping up, I thought I would start a thread to discuss the new 2005 Samsung HDTV DLP's. I did not attend the show, but summarized my notes from press releases and the comments of other AVSforum members (thanks, to all).


====================================================
PLEASE NOTE: This post is being maintained and updated as new
information is discovered about the 2005 Samsung DLP product line!!!
====================================================


2005 SAMSUNG DLP HDTV


For Offical Samsung 2005 CES Press Releases: CLICK HERE (http://www.hwhpr.com/prclients/samsung/ces05/index.html)
For Offical Samsung 2005 HES Press Releases: CLICK HERE (http://www.hwhpr.com/prclients/samsung/hes05/)
For Offical SamsungUSA.com DLP Product Information: CLICK HERE (http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_subtype.jsp?eUser=&prod_path=%2fAudio+and+Video%2fTV%2fDLP+TV)



What we think we KNOW so far:


====================================================
PLEASE NOTE: This information is subject to change as we learn
more and Samsung develops these products. I think Donald Rumsfeld
summed it up best in the following quote.

The Unknown
As we know,
There are known knowns.
There are things we know we know.
We also know
There are known unknowns.
That is to say
We know there are some things
We do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns,
The ones we don't know
We don't know.

Donald Rumsfeld — Feb 12, 2002, Department of Defense Briefing

====================================================


HiRes Gallery ... Thanks TetsujinWave & Daphoid!!!

If you are NEW to this thread or the 2005 Samsung DLP product line, you may want to read the spec's and understand the many models offered before browsing this gallery. The 2005 models and their spec's are described in detail in the sections that follow this gallery. Special thanks to TetsujinWave and Daphoid!!! TetsujinWave attended CES and supplied all of the photos in this gallery. Daphoid provided the web server, software and programming expertise to create the gallery.


For the Full High Resolution Gallery: CLICK HERE!!! (http://samsung.cerdonis.com/)


http://img213.exs.cx/img213/6862/6168p41jh.th.jpg << 6168 Sample (http://img213.exs.cx/img213/6862/6168p41jh.jpg)



*** 1080P Models (1920x1080 Screen Resolution) ***
=================================

There will be TWO cosmetic versions of the tabletop models. One version, the 78 series, will have a black lacquer bezel and will be sold by higher-end retailers and custom installers. The other version, the 68 series, will have a floating screen design and is believed to be targeted at larger chain stores like BestBuy. The internals of both lines are equivalent, the case (and offered screen sizes) is the only difference. In fact, Samsung has lead us to believe that the internal components on the 68 series, 78 series, and the 88 series pedestal model are all based on the same technology.



http://home.comcast.net/~UCSB/56-78.gif <<>> http://home.comcast.net/~UCSB/BB-B2.gif
Photos by TetsujinWave


TABLETOP MODEL >>> HLRxx78W --- 78 Series --- Black Lacquer Screen Design

HLRxx78W Series Brochure: CLICK HERE (http://product.samsung.com/SamsungUSA/PRODUCT/20050708/DLP_78_series_1.pdf)


71" -- HLR7178W (October 2005, MSRP guess $6,799) Spec Sheet (http://home.comcast.net/~ucsb/78-series.pdf)
61" -- HLR6178W (July 2005, MSRP guess $4,799) Spec Sheet (http://home.comcast.net/~ucsb/78-series.pdf)
56" -- HLR5678W (July 2005, MSRP guess $4,499) Spec Sheet (http://home.comcast.net/~ucsb/78-series.pdf)
50" -- HLR5078W (July 2005, MSRP guess $3,999) Spec Sheet (http://home.comcast.net/~ucsb/78-series.pdf)


PLEASE NOTE - 71" HLR7178W replaces previously listed HLR7078W, the HLR7078W will not be produced. I will leave the photos of the 70" below because they should approximate the 71".

HLR7178W NOTE - The screen on the 71" set is a more reflective than used on all of the other Samsung DLP models ... it is similar to the screen on the 70" Qualia 006.
1080p (1920x1080) Resolution
Black Lacquer Screen Design, Anti-glare Matte Screen Finish
Cinema Smooth Generation 6 (Light Engine), DNIe (Video Enhancement)
Dynamic Black Level - Mechanical Iris to control light and improve Contrast Ratio
Inputs: 2 HDMI , 2 Component Video, 1 S-Video, 2 Composite
Inputs: VGA/PC (1920x1080@60Hz)
Inputs: 2 IEEE 1394 DTV Link (SOURCE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4966628&fullpage=1))
HDMI Supported Inputs: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i (1080p will NOT be offered)
Digital Audio Out (optical)
ATSC Tuner / NTSC Tuner, Digital Cable Ready with CableCARD
TV Guide Electronic Program Guide (SOURCE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4966628&fullpage=1)) (GEMSTAR TV Guide + GOLD Demo (http://www.rca.com/documents/design3_final.htm))
AnyNET (A Serial Connection Between Samsung Components That Allows Integrated Control Via Your Remote Control)
DNSe (Dynamic Natural Sound), 30 Watts, Internal Speakers
DLP Chip: per Samsung, Latest 1080p (xHD4 (.85" 1080p) --- neither Samsung nor TI are discussing chips, this is our best guess given available information)
DLP Chip Operation: 960 x 1080 mirrors, each mirror quickly moves to produces 2 pixels displayed on the screen yielding a 1920x1080 final resolution; pixels are diamond shaped and slightly overlap, producing a smooth pixel free image
Contrast Ratio: up to 10,000:1
Brightness (cd/m-sq): 71"=500, 61"=600, 56"=700, 50"=800
Lamp (Standard/Dynamic Display Setting): 71"=(120W/132W); 50", 56", 61"=(100W/120W)
Color Wheel: 7 Segment, 10,800 RPM
Power Consumption: 230 Watts (Estimated)
NO Center Channel Shelf
HLRxx78W Series OWNERS MANUAL: CLICK HERE (http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/200506/20050621103649296_BP68-00513A-00Eng.pdf)

Measurements: Thanks Kirk@TVauthority!!! HL-R5078W 46.5 x 14.0 x 34.3 -- 50" -- 75.6 lbs. HL-R5678W 52.4 x 15.3 x 37.9 -- 56" -- 84.9 lbs HL-R6178W 56.9 x 18.4 x 41.6 -- 61" -- 99.2 lbs (includes removable pedestal base) HL-R7178W 65.8 x 20.4 x 46.8 -- 71" -- 116.8 lbs (includes removable pedestal base)
FOR STAND DIMENSIONS AND WEIGHTS - CHECK SPEC SHEET LINK ABOVE
Measurements (without Pedestal Base): HL-R6178W 56.9 x 16.5 x 41.6 -- 61" -- 99.2 lbs. HL-R7178W 65.8 x 18.7 x 45.9 -- 71" -- 116.8 lbs.
Technical Drawings: Thanks Kirk@TVauthority!!! HL-R5078W - Technical Drawing (http://home.comcast.net/~ucsb/HL-R5078W.pdf) HL-R5678W - Technical Drawing (http://home.comcast.net/~ucsb/HL-R5678W.pdf) HL-R6178W - Technical Drawing (http://home.comcast.net/~ucsb/HL-R6178W.pdf) HL-R7178W - Technical Drawing Not Available Yet
78 Series Photos --- Black Lacquer Design --- Thanks TetsujinWave --- Click on Link

50" -- HLR5078W -- Photo #1 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=4964930&fullpage=1) -- Photo #2 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=5098294&fullpage=1) -- Photo #3 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=4964954&fullpage=1) -- Photo #4 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=5026897&fullpage=1) -- Placecard (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=4964937&fullpage=1)
56" -- HLR5678W -- Photo #1 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4966348&fullpage=1) -- Photo #2 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4966442&fullpage=1) -- Photo #3 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4942336&fullpage=1) -- Placecard (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4966421&fullpage=1)
61" -- HLR6178W -- Photo #1 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4966899&fullpage=1)
70" -- HLR7078W -- Photo #1 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=4965004&fullpage=1) -- Photo #2 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=4965030&fullpage=1) -- Photo #3 (http://www.audioholics.com/news/uploads/DSC02153_lg.jpg) -- Photo #4 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=5163392&fullpage=1) -- Photo #5 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=5002933&fullpage=1)
70" -- HLR7078W -- Photo #6 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=4996433&fullpage=1) -- Photo #7 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=5040553&fullpage=1) -- Photo #8 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=5055703&fullpage=1) -- Photo #9 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=5066255&fullpage=1) -- Photo#10 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=5094040&fullpage=1)
70" -- HLR7078W -- Photo#11 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=5094217&fullpage=1) -- Photo#12 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=5095187&fullpage=1) -- Photo#13 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=5098246&fullpage=1) -- Placecard (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=4965018&fullpage=1) -- Poster (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4965010&fullpage=1)
Rear Inputs --- CLICK HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=5554765&fullpage=1)

Background: 1080p vs 720p Comparison (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=4955769&fullpage=1) -- Series 78 Poster (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4966628&fullpage=1) -- Technical Discussion, Screen Shots, Photos (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20050110/dg45.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20050110/dg45.htm%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG)
Background: TI DLP Brochure for Winter 2005 (www.dlp.com/home_entertainment/images/DLP_TV_Guide.pdf) -- TI DLP Presentation (http://www.ti.com/asia/docs/india/tiidevconf2004/consumer_electronics/sreeram.ppt)




http://home.comcast.net/~UCSB/FS-A.gif<<>>http://home.comcast.net/~UCSB/FS-B.gif
Photo by TetsujinWave, KyungKim


TABLETOP MODEL >>> HLRxx68W --- 68 Series --- Floating Screen Design

HLRxx68W Series Brochure: CLICK HERE (http://product.samsung.com/SamsungUSA/PRODUCT/20050706/DLP_68_series_1.pdf)

67" -- HLR6768W (July 2005, MSRP $6,199) Spec Sheet (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=38632)
61" -- HLR6168W (July 2005, MSRP $4,799) Spec Sheet (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=38632)
56" -- HLR5668W (July 2005, MSRP $4,499) Spec Sheet (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=38632)

1080p (1920x1080) Resolution
Floating Screen Design, Anti-glare Matte Screen Finish
Cinema Smooth Generation 6 (Light Engine), DNIe (Video Enhancement)
Dynamic Black Level - Mechanical Iris to control light and improve Contrast Ratio
Inputs: 2 HDMI , 2 Component Video, 1 S-Video, 2 Composite
Inputs: VGA/PC (1920x1080@60Hz)
Inputs: 2 IEEE 1394 DTV Link (SOURCE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4966678&fullpage=1))
HDMI Supported Inputs: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i (1080p will NOT be offered)
Digital Audio Out (optical)
ATSC Tuner / NTSC Tuner, Digital Cable Ready with CableCARD
TV Guide Electronic Program Guide (SOURCE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4966678&fullpage=1)) (GEMSTAR TV Guide + GOLD Demo (http://www.rca.com/documents/design3_final.htm))
AnyNET (A Serial Connection Between Samsung Components That Allows Integrated Control Via Your Remote Control)
30 Watts, Internal Speakers
DLP Chip: per Samsung, Latest 1080p (xHD4 (.85" 1080p) --- neither Samsung nor TI are discussing chips, this is our best guess given available information)
DLP Chip Operation: 960 x 1080 mirrors, each mirror quickly moves to produces 2 pixels displayed on the screen yielding a 1920x1080 final resolution; pixels are diamond shaped and slightly overlap, producing a smooth pixel free image
Contrast Ratio: up to 10,000:1
Brightness (cd/m-sq): 67"=550, 61"=600, 56"=700
Lamp (Standard/Dynamic Display Setting): 67"=(120W/132W); 56", 61"=(100W/120W)
Color Wheel: 7 Segment, 10,800 RPM
Power Consumption: 230 Watts (Estimated)
NO Center Channel Shelf
HLRxx68W Series OWNERS MANUAL: CLICK HERE (http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/200507/20050704183212125_BP68-00520A-00Eng_book.pdf)

Measurements: Thanks Kirk@TVauthority!!! HL-R5668W 52.4 x 15.3 x 37.9 -- 56" -- 80.9 lbs HL-R6168W 56.9 x 18.4 x 41.6 -- 61" -- 99.6 lbs. (includes removable pedestal base) HL-R6768W 62.4 x 19.8 x 45.1 -- 67" -- 109.8 (includes removable pedestal base)
Measurements (without Pedestal Base): HL-R6168W 56.9 x 16.5 x 40.7 -- 61" -- 99.6 lbs. HL-R6768W 62.4 x 17.8 x 44.3 -- 67" -- 109.8 lbs
Technical Drawings: Thanks Kirk@TVauthority!!! HL-R5668W - Technical Drawing (http://home.comcast.net/~ucsb/HL-R5668W.pdf) HL-R6168W - Technical Drawing (http://home.comcast.net/~ucsb/HL-R6168W.pdf) HL-R6768W - Technical Drawing (http://home.comcast.net/~ucsb/HL-R6768W.pdf)
68 Series Photos --- Floating Screen Design --- Thanks KyungKim, TetsujinWave --- Click on Link

56" -- HLR5668W -- Photo #1 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=5004982&fullpage=1) (Good For Depth, Shape) -- Photo #2 (http://img15.exs.cx/img15/1649/hlr5668w2al.gif) -- Photo #3 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=5026917&fullpage=1)
56" -- HLR5668W -- Placecard (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4966522&fullpage=1)
61" -- HLR6168W -- Photo #1 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=4955685&fullpage=1) -- Photo #2 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4966758&fullpage=1) -- Photo #3 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=4970111&fullpage=1) -- Photo #4 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=5002884&fullpage=1) -- Photo #5 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=5004052&fullpage=1)
61" -- HLR6168W -- Photo #6 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=5002982&fullpage=1) -- Photo #7 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=5100319&fullpage=1) -- Photo #8 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=5141688&fullpage=1) -- Photo #9 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=5148752&fullpage=1) (Shows Stabilization Base)
61" -- HLR6168W -- Photo#10 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=5163423&fullpage=1) -- Placecard (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=5026962&fullpage=1)
67" -- HLR6768W -- Photo #1 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=5035510&fullpage=1) -- Photo #2 (http://www.pbase.com/jsjames/image/38400040) -- Placecard (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=5026976&fullpage=1)
Rear Inputs --- CLICK HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=5554765&fullpage=1)


Background: Floating Screen Close-up (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4955704&fullpage=1) -- Series 68 Poster (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4966678&fullpage=1)
Photos of Internal Components: CLICK HERE (https://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=561920&native_or_pdf=pdf)
Video: VIDEO (Warning: C/Net's Price and CableCard Comments are in ERROR) (http://www.cnet.com/4520-10602_1-5619186-1.html)
High Resolution PHOTO (1.25 MB, Excellent): HiRes Photo (http://www.hwhpr.com/prclients/samsung/ces05/index.html) / LowRes Preview Photo (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=5015522&fullpage=1)




http://home.comcast.net/~UCSB/5688.jpg
Photo by Samsung


PEDESTAL MODEL >>> 88 Series

56" -- HLR5688W (July 2005, $5,199) Spec Sheet (http://product.samsung.com/SamsungUSA/PRODUCT/20050713/HLR5087W_5688W_spec.pdf)

1080p (1920x1080) Resolution
Cinema Smooth Generation 6 (Light Engine), DNIe (Video Enhancement)
Dynamic Black Level - Mechanical Iris to control light and improve Contrast Ratio
Anti-glare Matte Screen Finish
Inputs: 2 HDMI, 2 Component Video, 1 S-Video, 2 Composite
Inputs: VGA/PC (1920x1080@60Hz)
Inputs: IEEE 1394 DTV Link (unconfirmed)
Digital Audio Out (optical)
HDMI Supported Inputs: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i (1080p will NOT be offered)
ATSC Tuner / NTSC Tuner, Digital Cable Ready with CableCARD
TV Guide Electronic Program Guide (GEMSTAR TV Guide + GOLD Demo (http://www.rca.com/documents/design3_final.htm))
AnyNET (A Serial Connection Between Samsung Components That Allows Integrated Control Via Your Remote Control)
30 Watts, Internal Speakers
DLP Chip: xHD4 (.85" 1080p)
DLP Chip Operation: 960 x 1080 mirrors, each mirror quickly moves to produces 2 pixels displayed on the screen yielding a 1920x1080 final resolution; pixels are diamond shaped and slightly overlap, producing a smooth pixel free image
Contrast Ratio: up to 10,000:1
Color Wheel: 7 Segment
Power Consumption: 230 Watts
NO Center Channel Shelf

HLR5688W OWNERS MANUAL: CLICK HERE (http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/MM/200212/um_hlr5688w_manual_eng_051220.pdf)
Online OWNERS MANUAL: CLICK HERE (http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/MM/200212/um_hlr5688w_start_eng_051220.htm)


Measurements: HL-R5688W, 58.7 x 21.9 x 58.4
Measurements: of the CURRENT HLP5685, 58.7"(W) x 58.3"(H) x 21.9"(D)


88 Series Photos --- Pedestal Screen Design --- Click on Link

56" -- HLR5688W (Photo appears to be of 50" model) -- Photo #1 (http://www.pbase.com/jsjames/image/38440295/original) -- Photo #2 (http://img15.exs.cx/img15/875/hlr5688w1oh.gif)
High Resolution PHOTO (1.25 MB, Excellent): HiRes Photo (http://www.hwhpr.com/prclients/samsung/ces05/index.html) / LowRes Preview Photo (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=5015533&fullpage=1)





*** 720P Models (1280x720 Screen Resolution) ***
================================

PLEASE NOTE: The three 2005 Samsung 720p product lines (HLRxx67W, HLRxx77W, HLRxx87W) are currently released and shipping. You can go down to your favorite store and carefully evaluate each of these models. When you go down to take a closer look at the HLRxxxxW models, you may find HLPxxxxW models still on sale. These are units from the 2004 Samsung 720p product line. They can be identified by the P in the model number, HLP5063W for example. 2005 models will begin with HLR. Costco is also selling a couple of models that begin with HLN. These are 2003 models that are still being produced and sold through this discount chain.


http://home.comcast.net/~UCSB/46-67.gif
Photo by TetsujinWave


TABLETOP MODELS >>> HLRxx67W --- 67 Series --- Floating Screen Design

DLP Product Descriptions on Samsung.com: CLICK HERE (http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_subtype.jsp?eUser=&prod_path=%2fAudio+and+Video%2fTV%2fDLP+TV)
AVSforum HLRxx67W OWNERS THREAD: CLICK HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=537675)

61" -- HLR6167W (April 2005-Revised to first week in May, $3,799) Preliminary Spec Sheet (http://www.tvauthority.com/dlp/hl-r6167w.pdf)
56" -- HLR5667W (April 2005-Revised to first week in May, $3,499) Preliminary Spec Sheet (http://www.tvauthority.com/dlp/hl-r5667w.pdf)
50" -- HLR5067W (April 2005-Revised to first week in May, $2,999) Preliminary Spec Sheet (http://www.tvauthority.com/dlp/hl-r5067w.pdf)
46" -- HLR4667W (April 2005-Revised to first week in May, $2,699) Preliminary Spec Sheet (http://www.tvauthority.com/dlp/hl-r4667w.pdf)
42" -- HLR4266W (Mid May 2005, $2,499) SamsungUSA.com (http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?eUser=&prod_id=HLR4266WX%2fXAA)

HLR4266W has 4 specs which are different from the rest of the 67 series:
1. Does NOT have the super fine screen.
2. Does NOT have the PC/VGA input.
3. Does NOT have the 1394 inputs.
4. Does NOT have the electronic program guide support on the CableCard.

720p (1280x720) Resolution
Floating Screen Design, Anti-glare Matte Screen Finish
Cinema Smooth Generation 720P (Light Engine), DNIe (Video Enhancement)
Inputs: 1 HDMI, 2 Component Video, 1 S-Video, 2 Composite, VGA/PC
Inputs: 2 IEEE 1394 DTV Link
Digital Audio Out (optical)
ATSC Tuner / NTSC Tuner, Digital Cable Ready with CableCARD
TV Guide Electronic Program Guide (GEMSTAR TV Guide + GOLD Demo (http://www.rca.com/documents/design3_final.htm))
AnyNET (A Serial Connection Between Samsung Components That Allows Integrated Control Via Your Remote Control)
30 Watts, Internal Speakers
DLP Chip: per Samsung, New Generation 720p (HD4 (.55" 720p) --- confirmed from Samsung HLRxx67W brochure below --- TI has not shared the actually naming convention, so we are using HD4 to denote the next 720p chip after HD3)
DLP Chip Operation: 640 x 720 mirrors, each mirror quickly moves to produces 2 pixels displayed on the screen yielding a 1280x720 final resolution; pixels are diamond shaped and slightly overlap, producing a smooth pixel free image
Contrast Ratio: Up to 2500:1
Brightness (cd/m-sq): 61"=600, 56"=700, 50"=900, 46", 42" = 1000.
Lamp (Standard/Dynamic Display Setting): 42", 46", 50", 56", 61"=(100W/120W)
Color Wheel: 7 Segment
Power Consumption: 230 Watts
NO Center Channel Shelf
Measurements: Thanks Kirk@TVauthority!!! HL-R5056W --Not available --50" Table (720p) HL-R4266W 39.3 x 13.0 x 29.7 --42" Table (720p); 61.7 lbs. HL-R4667W 42.8 x 13.4 x 32.0 --46" Table (720p); 66.8 lbs. HL-R4677W 40.6 x 16.1 x 30.0 --46" Slim Bezel (720p); 71.65 lbs. HL-R5067W 46.5 x 14.0 x 34.3 --50" Table (720p); 72.5 lbs. HL-R5667W 52.4 x 15.3 x 37.9 --56" Table (720p); 80.9 lbs HL-R5677W 49.9 x 18.2 x 36.3 --46" Slim Bezel (720p); 93.7 lbs. HL-R6167W 56.9 x 18.4 x 41.6 --61" Table (720p); 94.5 lbs.
Technical Drawings: Thanks Kirk@TVauthority!!! HL-R4266W - Technical Drawing (http://home.comcast.net/~ucsb/HL-R4266W.pdf) HL-R4667W - Technical Drawing (http://home.comcast.net/~ucsb/HL-R4667W.pdf) HL-R5067W - Technical Drawing (http://home.comcast.net/~ucsb/HL-R5067W.pdf) HL-R5667W - Technical Drawing (http://home.comcast.net/~ucsb/HL-R5667W.pdf) HL-R6167W - Technical Drawing (http://home.comcast.net/~ucsb/HL-R6167W.pdf)
Measurements: The HLPxx63W Measurements may be helpful because we have technical drawings for these models. 61" - HLP6163W: 56.9"(W) x 40.7"(H) x 16.7"(D); 99.2 Lbs. - Technical Drawing (http://product.samsung.com/pdf/hlp6163.pdf)
56" - HLP5663W: 52.4"(W) x 37.9"(H) x 15.6"(D); 91.5 Lbs. - Technical Drawing (http://product.samsung.com/pdf/hlp5663.pdf)
50" - HLP5063W: 46.5"(W) x 34.3"(H) x 14.1"(D); 77.2 Lbs. - Technical Drawing (http://product.samsung.com/pdf/hlp5063.pdf)
46" - HLP4663W: 43.1"(W) x 32.0"(H) x 13.3"(D); 69.4 Lbs. - Technical Drawing (http://product.samsung.com/pdf/hlp4663.pdf)
HLRxx67W Product Line Brochure (Excellent): Brochure (http://product.samsung.com/SamsungUSA/PRODUCT/20050408/HLR4266W4667W5067W5667W6167W.PDF)
HLRxx67W Owners Manual: Owners Manual (http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/200503/20050315094921953_BP68-00469A-00Eng.pdf)
HLR4266W Owners Manual: Owners Manual (http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/200503/20050322081524250_BP68-00496A-01Eng.pdf)
HLRxx67W Quick Reference Guide: Quick Reference Guide (http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/EM/200504/20050425165730953/EN/main.htm)


67 Series Photos --- Click on Link (Also, see photos under 68 Series above - same case)

46" -- HLR4667W -- Photo #1 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4972979&fullpage=1) -- Photo #2 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4973025&fullpage=1) -- Placecard (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4972995&fullpage=1)
50" -- HLR5067W -- Photo #1 (http://img15.exs.cx/img15/4193/hlr5067w3mr.gif) -- Placecard (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=4956971&fullpage=1)
56" -- HLR5667W -- Photo #1 (http://img15.exs.cx/img15/3956/hlr5667w5vg.gif)

BACK & INTERNAL COMPONENTS - 50" - HLR5067W - Photos #1 - #8 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=5303862) - NOTE: There are 8 PHOTOS in the SERIES


High Resolution PHOTO (1.25 MB, Excellent): HiRes Photo (http://www.hwhpr.com/prclients/samsung/ces05/index.html) / LowRes Preview: LowRes Photo (http://img15.exs.cx/img15/3956/hlr5667w5vg.gif)



http://product.samsung.com/images/prod/product03/b2c_m_hlp5674.jpg
Photo by Samsung

THIN BEZEL TABLETOP MODEL >>> HLRxx77W --- 77 Series --- Thin Bezel Design

DLP Product Descriptions on Samsung.com: CLICK HERE (http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_subtype.jsp?eUser=&prod_path=%2fAudio+and+Video%2fTV%2fDLP+TV)

56" -- HLR5677W (Now Available, $3,499)
46" -- HLR4677W (Now Available, $2,899) 8/9/2005 - Model Discontinued

The HLRxx77W models are based on the HLPxx74W models introduced in November 2004. There has been extensive discussion and evaluation of these model in this forum. For specific information, please refer to the HLPxx74W Owners thread.

The HLRxx77W are identical to the HLPx74W, except the DVI and PC/VGA inputs of the HLPxx74W have been deleted on the HLRxx77W. In addition an ATSC over-the-air digital tuner (can receive HD) and CableCard tuner have been ADDED to the HLRxx77W series. For further information, please check the Samsung web site (CLICK HERE (http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_subtype.jsp?eUser=&prod_path=%2fAudio+and+Video%2fTV%2fDLP+TV)).
720p (1280x720) Resolution
Aluminum Thin Bezel Screen Design, Anti-glare Matte Screen Finish
Hybrid HLN Light Engine, DNIe (Video Enhancement)
Inputs: 1 HDMI, 2 Component Video, 3 S-Video, 3 Composite
Digital Audio Out (optical)
ATSC Tuner / NTSC Tuner, Digital Cable Ready with CableCARD
NO TV Guide Electronic Program Guide (GEMSTAR TV Guide + GOLD Demo (http://www.rca.com/documents/design3_final.htm))
AnyNET (A Serial Connection Between Samsung Components That Allows Integrated Control Via Your Remote Control)
30 Watts, Internal Speakers
DLP Chip: HD2+ (.8" 720p)
DLP Chip Operation: 1280x720 mirrors, each mirror produces 1 pixel displayed on the screen yielding a 1280x720 final resolution; pixels are rectangular shaped and don't overlap, individual pixels are visible on the screen
Contrast Ratio: 2000:1
Color Wheel: 6 Segment
Power Consumption: 230 Watts
Center Channel Shelf Exists On Top Of HDTV
HLRxx77W Owners Manual: Owners Manual (http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/200501/20050131152218265_BP68-00460A-01Eng.pdf)



http://home.comcast.net/~UCSB/5087.jpg
Photo by Samsung


PEDESTAL MODEL >>> 87 Series

DLP Product Descriptions on Samsung.com: CLICK HERE (http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_subtype.jsp?eUser=&prod_path=%2fAudio+and+Video%2fTV%2fDLP+TV)
AVSforum HLRxx87W OWNERS THREAD: CLICK HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5673262&&#post5673262)

56" -- HLR5687W (56", Unknown Release, $Unknown) [Little is known about this POSSIBLE model]
50" -- HLR5087W (50”, May 2005, $3,899) Spec Sheet (http://product.samsung.com/SamsungUSA/PRODUCT/20050713/HLR5087W_5688W_spec.pdf)

720p (1280x720) Resolution
Cinema Smooth Generation 720P (Light Engine), DNIe (Video Enhancement)
Anti-glare Matte Screen Finish
Inputs: 1 HDMI, 2 Component Video, 3 S-Video, 3 Composite [NO VGA/PC]
Input/Output: [NO IEEE 1394]
Digital Audio Out (optical)
ATSC Tuner / NTSC Tuner, Digital Cable Ready with CableCARD
TV Guide Electronic Program Guide (GEMSTAR TV Guide + GOLD Demo (http://www.rca.com/documents/design3_final.htm))
AnyNET (A Serial Connection Between Samsung Components That Allows Integrated Control Via Your Remote Control)
30 Watts, Internal Speakers
DLP Chip: (HD2+ (.8" 720p) --- neither Samsung nor TI are discussing chips, this is our best guess given available information)
DLP Chip Note: TI has a new 2005 version of the HD2+, we are calling it the HD2++ (.8" 720p); it is not known if this chip is being used in this HDTV, but general feeling is that it is NOT because contrast ratio spec is still 2500:1
DLP Chip Operation: 1280x720 mirrors, each mirror produces 1 pixel displayed on the screen yielding a 1280x720 final resolution; pixels are rectangular shaped and don't overlap, individual pixels are visible on the screen
Contrast Ratio: 2500:1
Color Wheel: 7 Segment
Power Consumption: 230 Watts
NO Center Channel Shelf

Measurements: HL-R5087W, 53.6 x 20.5 x 54.7

Measurements: of the CURRENT HLP5085W, 53.6"(W) x 54.7"(H) x 20.5"(D), Weight: 125.4 lbs.

HLR5087W Technical Drawing: Technical Drawing (http://home.comcast.net/~ucsb/HL-R5087W.pdf)
HLRxx87W Owners Manual: Owners Manual (http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/200504/20050411213628609_BP68-00448A-01Eng_book.pdf)


87 Series Photos --- Pedestal Screen Design --- Click on Link

50" -- HLR5087W -- Photo #1 (http://www.pbase.com/jsjames/image/38440295/original) -- Photo #2 (http://img102.exs.cx/img102/7734/hlr5087w8qt.gif)
High Resolution PHOTO (1.25 MB, Excellent): HiRes Photo (http://www.hwhpr.com/prclients/samsung/ces05/index.html)


Canada ONLY Models:

The following HLRxx64W models are Canadian ONLY models. They are based on the cosmetics of the USA HLRxx67W series, but have different internal components and specs ... so you can look at the photos above in the HLRxx67W section (and in the HLRxx68W section) for an idea of what the cabinet looks like. In addition, the following 1080p units (specs same as USA versions described above) have been confirmed as being available in Canada. The status of the 56" and 67" 1080p models is currently unclear.

50" -- HLR5078W (August, $3999)
61" -- HLR6178W (August, $4799)
61" -- HLR6168W (August, $4799)
71" -- HLR7178W (August, $6999)

It is currently believed that the HLRxx88W and HLRxx77W product lines will not be offered in Canada.


TABLETOP MODELS >>> HLRxx64W --- 64 Series --- Floating Screen Design

Samsung's Canadian Web Site DLP Area (includes spec's and pictures): CLICK HERE (http://www.samsung.ca/cgi-bin/nasecabc/en/b2c/product/product_subtype.jsp?LoginFlag=NO&prod_path=%2fConsumer+Products%2fTV,+Video+%26+Audio%2fTV%2f DLP+TV)

42" -- HLR4264W (Released, $2499)
46" -- HLR4664W (Released, $2799)
50" -- HLR5064W (Released, $2999)
56" -- HLR 5664W (Unknown, $xxxx) The 56" is shown in the HLRxx64W manual, but we have not confirmed it's sale in Canada, yet.
61" -- HLR6164W (Released, $3799)
720p (1280x720) Resolution
Floating Screen Design, Anti-glare Matte Screen Finish
Cinema Smooth Generation 720P (Light Engine), DNIe (Video Enhancement)
Inputs: 1 HDMI, 1 DVI, 2 Component Video, 1 S-Video, 2 Composite, VGA/PC
Inputs: NO IEEE 1394 DTV Link
Digital Audio Out (optical)
ATSC Tuner / NTSC Tuner, NO Digital Cable Ready with CableCARD
NO TV Guide Electronic Program Guide
AnyNET (A Serial Connection Between Samsung Components That Allows Integrated Control Via Your Remote Control)
30 Watts, Internal Speakers
DLP Chip: HD3 (.55" 720p) --- this is a 2004 TI DLP chip; USA models use a 2005 HD4
DLP Chip Operation: 640 x 720 mirrors, each mirror quickly moves to produces 2 pixels displayed on the screen yielding a 1280x720 final resolution; pixels are diamond shaped and slightly overlap, producing a smooth pixel free image
Contrast Ratio: 2000:1
Brightness (cd/m-sq): 61"=600, 56"=700 (may not be available), 50"=900, 46"=1000, 42" = 1000
Lamp (Standard/Dynamic Display Setting): 42", 46", 50", 56" (may not be available), 61"=(100W/120W)
Color Wheel: 7 Segment
Power Consumption: 230 Watts
NO Center Channel Shelf

You can turn DNIe ON and OFF, this is a feature that is not available on the 67 series, which requires DNIe to be on all of the time





What we DON’T KNOW so far:

1. What computer resolutions are supported on the 68, 78, and 88 series sets on the HDMI input(1920x1080?)? Specifically, does it support 1080i or 1080p?

2. Will the internal ATSC tuner or CableCard tuner support the future 1080p broadcast format on the 1080p units?

3. What capabilities does the 1394 port have to support 1080p? Specifically, if the internal tuner can support broadcast 1080p/24, can this be output via the 1394 port? Could a 1080p signal be input via the 1394 port?

4. Will Samsung provide any method (USB port/PC, Memory Cards) for customers to apply firmware upgrades to the new 1080p HDTVs? There are two other manufacturers that currently provide this capability for their DLP sets.

5. On the 1080p sets, which inputs have DNIe turned on all of the time. On the HDMI inputs and other inputs (VGA/PC, 1394), is DNIe ON or OFF? Does selecting a specific device type with inputs that have DNIe on all of the time reduce the level of processing (selecting GAME on component, for example)?

6. Will 1080p sets support multichannel audio (5.1) on the HDMI inputs? 720p sets only support 2 channels and this prevents a multichannel pass through to a receiver. This is important to manage sync in some situations.


Items We Would Like To Test, But Need To Wait Until HDTV's Are Released:

1. Do the remote control IR discrete codes work for ALL inputs?

2. Given the increased video processing demands of 1080p, what is the capability of the 68/78/88 series 1080p sets to handle computer/video gaming? Specifically, what is lag?

3. Given the increased video processing required in the 1080p units (68, 78, 88 Series), what steps has Samsung taken to insure that we don't see lip sync issues? Did anyone ask specifically about this concern?

4. Will 1080p be supported on the HDMI input on the 1080p models (68, 78, 88 series)? All of our information collected up to this point indicates that it won't, but it is an important item and many of us hope Samsung will find a way to include it in the final production sets. It should be checked when the sets are released.

5. How will SD broadcasts look on the 1080p sets? How will this compare to SD broadcasts on 720p sets?

6. How will standard DVD's look on the 1080p sets? How will standard DVD's look after being upshifted by the better upshifting DVD players in comparison to standard DVD on the 720p sets? Is there any advantage to the new 1080p sets when playing standard DVD's?

7. In selecting a DVD player, will you get a better quality picture if you send the 1080p HDTV a 480i digital feed and let the TV do all of the processing OR by using a upshifting DVD player to send a 1080i digital signal that is deinterlaced to 1080p?

8. When setting up a given input, such as HDMI or Component 1, does the processing associated with the input change when you select a different descriptive name for the input (such as GAME, DVD, HD STB, etc.)?

9. Can you get 1:1 pixel mapping of a computer input on the PC/VGA input (at 1920x1080)? On HDMI? If so, how exactly is it setup and what picture mode do you use?





FAQ's:

1. What is the PQ on the new 1080p models?

Comments by KyungKim (CES Attendee)
Generally excellent. There are some surprises here. Ive posted b4 that 1080p will not be the silver bullet for rptvs as there are many other problems with rear projection micro displays. What really floored me at the show was that many of these problems seems to have been greatly eliminated with this generation 1080p product.
The biggest weird thing for me was that the new displays do not exhibit much in the way of SSE, that is silk screen effect. It was clearly evident on the 1080p vs 720p demo display. There was quiet a bit of shimmering in the large white areas of the powerpoint demo on the 720 set. There was little to no shimmering silk screen effect on the newer display. I confirmed this with the rep, who happend to think it was due to the higher rez. Im not sure if i buy it, but the sse on the newer sets is close to non existant. You can see som fine shmmiering when u get close, but at normal viewing distance, this Effect is really not there anymore.
Now to the other shocker. Im super sensitive to RBE. I see them all the time on dlps. It was VERY VERY VERY hard to see them on the new sets. Since they had the 720p ones on the left side, i was easily able to see them on the old chips using the patended darting eyes furisiously method. Maybe this is due to the wobulation effect, who knows. As a side note, i got a splitting headache some minutes after walking away form the samsung booth. Since i did the rbe torture test on both the 1080p and 720p sets for a long long time, i dunno who the culprit was. All i know is that RBE is reduced dramatically on the new sets.

Comments by ViddKid (CES Attendee)
All I can comment on is the PQ and image reproduction of the 1080p sets. IMO, they are some of the best display devices on the show floor. Test patterns displayed at 1080p were flawless, videos and still imges have noticably higher definition and better image reproduction than the side by side 720p set.

Comments By C/Net (CES Media Coverage)
HLR6768W – Awarded Best of Show CES 2005
2. Do the screens on the new models still have the wonderful matte finish of prior Samsung DLP’s OR have they started to use more reflective materials? Some photos of the new HDTV’s appear to have more glare than one would expect.
Comments by KyungKim (CES Attendee)
Yes ASFAIK the new sets did not exhibit any more or less glare than the "legacy" 720p models. What i think is freaking u out is the super reflective bezel on the higher end model. Not sure if its been discussed already, the pics I posted earlier of the 56 is the "tantus" model, only found in tweeter and upscale av shops. The floating models are the reg ones which will be sold most everywhere. Those models have a matte finish bezel which is much much more pleasing, to me at least. The reps assured me several times that differences in the upscale and non will be purely cosmetic. (KyungKim’s photo is below, notice bezel around screen appears more reflective than screen)
PHOTO of HLR6168W (screen finish): PHOTO (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=4955685&fullpage=1)
3. What kind of color wheels are used in the new models (7 segment or possibly some other approach)?
Comments by KyungKim (CES Attendee)
Seven, according to one rep, says the wheel is larger to accomadate the extra rez. Other than that the wheel is the same.
4. What TI DLP chips are used in the new models?
Comments by KyungKim (CES Attendee)
Unofficialy i believe its called the xhd4. Samsung was mumm on the chip name, other than to assure ppl its the latest n greatest.

Comments by ROGO (CES Attendee)
As for HD2/HD3/xHD3, etc. TI is going away from that nomenclature entirely. They are asking OEMs to do the same. Optoma apparently did not get the memo.

Comments By UCSB (AVS Member):
We have an open issue about what DLP chips are in these new models. It seems that TI (Texas Instruments) and the HDTV vendors have gotten together and decided not to talk about chips, but rather talk about 720p chips and 1080p chips. I can understand this desire on their part. With models coming out at different times during the year, everyone can’t have the latest chip and a lot of other things go into the design of these HDTV’s (firmware, optics, electronics, screens, etc.) beyond the chips. Part of me says that we should just respect their wishes. But, then part of me says … wait, for most of us these are expensive purchases. We have a right to be informed about what we are buying. Could you imagine if Intel decided we are just going to refer to CPU’s by their type, Pentium 4’s for example.
We have gathered a lot of spec’s at CES 2005 and those spec’s are clearly documented in the posters, product display cards, and press releases that we have been accumulating. I think some clear patterns have emerged.
It seems to me that Samsung and TI cooperate closely on the introduction of HDTV’s and DLP chips. This is to be expected (I thought I saw a press release saying Samsung had 69% or the DLP market). Samsung has stated they are using, or will be using TI’s latest chips. So here is my take by model line.
Series 68, 78 – TI xHD4. I don’t know if this is the designation they are using internally, but this is the next 1080p chip after the xHD3 shown initially at CES 2004. When the 68 / 78 product arrives it will be mid 2005. Clearly at least one model year removed from the 2004 chip we saw last year. The xHD3 had a contrast ratio of 5000:1, these new chips are claiming 10,000:1. In addition, there was a Zeiss Optics pdf document that talked about compability with the xHD4 chip.
Series 88 – TI xHD3. This 1080p pedestal HDTV was slated for introduction last November with xHD3. It’s lower 5000:1 contrast ratio, 2004 develop time table, and early introduction (FEB 2005) led me to believe that it is based on the xHD3.
Series 67 – TI HD4. A couple of vendors, Sharp and Optoma, created product display cards stating that they are using the HD4. So we know this is the latest 720p chip. In addition, Samsung is claiming a 2000:1 contrast ratio … just the same as in the Sharp HD4 720p HDTV. Optoma claimed 2500:1.
Series 87 – TI HD2+ or HD4. We do not have a single picture, product display card, press release spec … or really anything on this HDTV. My guess is that they just left the HD2+ chip in the unit (ie used current HLP5085W as base).
5. Which models will offer IEEE 1394 ports? What will be the capability of those ports?
Kirk@TVAuthority (CES Attendee)
I defintely agree with Administrator- what you see at the shows doesn't always make it to the final production models. That being said, we checked the input jacks for both the 67 & 78 series- the 78 series had 2 firewire, 2 hdmi and a pc input. The 67 series has 2 firewire, 1 hdmi and 1 pc input. I don't recall if we looking at the inputs on the 68 series but my guess is they will offer the same inputs as the 78 models.

Comments by UCSB (AVS Member)
Samsung posters for 68 / 78 series HDTV's showed IEEE 1394. Therefore, IEEE 1394 have been added to specs for 68, 78, and 88 series HDTVs.
6. What is the contrast ratio spec’s for the new models?
Comments by KyungKim (CES Attendee)
10,000 to 1 as its listed on all of their product tags. The blacks were really incredible. Its blackety black and its black y'all. Comparing to the 720p set, the black levels were noticeably lower on the 1080p sets.

Comments by OrangeKid (CES Attendee)
I am certain the contrast ratio was l listed as 10,000:1. I checked the labels on the Samsung 1080p sets several times.
7. Confirm the number of HDMI inputs shown in the table above. Will there be 1 or 2 HDMI inputs?
Comments by KyungKim (CES Attendee)
Two, so said everyone from samsung.
8. Which of the current models will be continuing? Specifically, what are the plans for the HLPxx74W, Tantus thin bezel models. Many planning to buy in 2005 might want to know the fate of this HD2+ unit.

The HLPxx74W will be updated to a HLRxx77W model that will have integrated ATSC tuner and CableCard support. Unfortunately, the HLRxx77W will not have the DVI and PC/VGA inputs of the HLPxx74W.

Comments by Akastp (CES Member) HL-R4677 and HL-R5677 appearing on Samsung web site right now.
46" Model...
http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?eUser=&prod_id=HLR4677WX%2fXAA
56" Model...
http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?eUser=&prod_id=HLR5677WX%2fXAA
Info is coming and going so someone must be working on the page in "live" mode.

Brochures available...
46" Model...
http://product.samsung.com/SamsungUSA/PRODUCT/20050318/hlr4677.pdf
56" Model...
http://product.samsung.com/SamsungUSA/PRODUCT/20050318/hlr5677.pdf
9. Can the 68 series or 88 series 1080p sets accept a 1080p signal via the HDMI input? The general feeling is that the answer is NO ... but, did anyone ask this specific question?
Comments By HTwaits (AVS Member)
My understanding is that all of the 2005 batch of 1080p HDTV sets have 1080i input capability but not 1080p input capability.
I also have the impression that HD DVD players only output 1080i.
If I remember correctly, de-interlacing directly from 1080i to 1080p should give a very "true to the source" image unless a manufacturer de-interlaces 1080i to 520p instead of 1080p. I think scaling from 520p to 1080p would probably degrade the image.

Comments By Kyungkim (CES Attendee)
Yes I asked this specifically and got the reply that it does not, due to hdcp requirements. This has been pointed out to be bubkus, hdcp does not limit rez.
I asked this question at a number of mfg planning 1080p sets and the most telling came from sony. They said they do not support 1080p (in) since no consumer device is capable of outputing a true 1080p signal. Even the blu ray players sold in japan only output 1080i.
So im not holding my breadth on the digital side of the 1080p input on this generation, i dont think they will be capable of it. Im 99.99 percent positive the hdmi ports will not support 1080p from talking to the reps.
Im holding out against hope that the vga input hasnt been crippled. I know everyone wants digital, but rgb has been the way that g90 projectors have been fed with 1080p for years, so im sure it wont be so awful.

Comments by Richard Paul (CES Attendee)
The Samsung representatives at CES said that the HDMI input wouldn't accept 1080p. Also there is no roadblock but as far as I know no manufacturer has yet to make HDMI chips that can process 1080p. Most likely because none of the CE manufacturers decided to spend the extra money for 1080p HDMI chips.

Comments by UCSB (AVSforum Member)
Today, 01-18-2005, Administrator recieved direct confirmation from Samsung that 1080p will NOT be offered as an input resolution. But, the digital conversion will go DIRECTLY from 1080i to 1080p (avoiding some other less optimal approaches). (Administrators Original Post: POST (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5012732#post5012732))
10. Is there a center channel speaker shelf on the 67, 68, or 78 series cabinets? There has been a general feeling in the discussions of this topic that the 67, 68, and 78 series do not have a center channel shelf.

None of the 2005 models have a center channel speaker shelf.
Comment By Tetsujinwave (CES Attendee):
There isn't enough room for a center channel on top of the 68 and 78 sets, from what I saw in the Samsung area. The back tapers from the bottom to the top--there really isn't a lot of room there for anything, much less a center channel speaker.
11. Does stepping up to 1080p affect the optimum screen size and/or my viewing distance?

In general, stepping up to 1080p will allow you view the HDTV from a closer minimum viewing distance than 720p. This will allow you to either move closer or step up to a larger monitor at your current viewing distance. Comments by schaffer970 (AVSforum Member) (Excellent link on 1080p and 720p viewing distance)
Here is a rather technical article on what you can actually see and how far away you can see it: HDTV and the Resolving Power of the Eye (http://www.tvtechnology.com/features/Tech-Corner/Hoffner_features.shtml). Basically it says that for HDTV 3 X screen height.

Comments by millerwill (AVSforum Member)
My 1.5xdiagonal as the optimum viewing distance for the 'full hd big screen effect' does come from the reference schaffer970 cites. Since the height of a 9x16 screen is about 0.5 of the diagonal [9/sqrt(337) = 0.49], 3 times the screen ht is ~ 1.5 x diagonal. I agree that this seems awfully close, and I would interpret it to be the CLOSEST one could possibly sit; and with a 720p set one would likely begin to see artifacts at this distance. With my hlp6163 I sit about 10 ft away, i.e., 2xdiag, and will probably stay at about this same distance with the hlr6768 I'm planning on; so this would make my factor 120/67 = 1.8; if I scoot up a ft it becomes 108/67 = 1.6, getting close to the minimum. [If I were to stay at 10 ft away, and were to get a screen that came to the minimal factor of 1.5, I could go up to a screen size of 80 "!
12. When designing my room layout are there any restrictions on the placement of my DLP HDTV?

Comments by UCSB (AVSforum Member)
DLP HDTV's have excellent horizontal viewing angles. I have not looked this stat up, but perhaps 160 degrees. But, they have rather restricted vertical viewing angles. I don't have a stat on this at this point in time, but think small, perhaps 15 degrees. What this means is you will get your best picture when you are viewing the set from approximately screen height (or from just under the screen height). Place the HDTV to high, say above a fireplace in a smaller room, and your picture quality could be very poor. Picture quality drops off the further below the TV the viewer becomes.
ADDED LATER: I've been doing a little more planning on my upgrade. Specifically, I have been analyzing vertical viewing angles. The link below is a smaller version of a larger 125MB file (9216 pixel wide). There are six screen shots in the photo. In the original each screen shot is 7.1 MP image and is 3072x2304, shot with a Canon S70 using a Samsung HLN467W. The screen shots show various distances below center line on the screen in degrees. From left to right across the top row is 0 degrees, -5, -10. On the bottom row from left to right is -15, -20, - 23 degrees.

Viewing angle analysis photo: CLICK HERE (http://img163.exs.cx/img163/469/master2048jpg0xk.jpg)

I'm still analyzing the data, but there is a consistent change is the picture from 0 to 23 degrees. Even in the 0 to 5 degrees below center line there is a noticable difference. I'll get my ideas together and comment more on this later, but one thing is for sure ... the vertical viewing angle is very sensitive to small changes. Look at the black title bar in the lower part of the screen and notice how it consistently lightens with each change in angle.
13. Some HLP owners have reported smudge problems on two layer viewing screens, has this problem been resolved with the screen material and designs being used on the 2005 models? Comments by Administrator (AVSforum Member)
Steve P. of Samsung says that this is a manufacturing problem and it will be resolved. His entire answer can be found in this post by Administrator POST (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5221820#post5221820).
14. Is the CableCard tuner a dual tuner model? Is it capable of PIP? Is the CableCard Tuner a second generation model capable of two way communications to support services like VOD (video on demand)?? Comments by Administrator (AVSforum Member)
Steve P. of Samsung says that the CableCard tuner in the new DLPs will not be one of the new second generation models. His entire answer can be found in this post by Administrator POST (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5221764#post5221764).

Comments by UCSB (AVSforum Member)
We have not found any evidence that PIP will be supported or that the model will be a dual tuner setup. All new Samsung plasmas and DLPs supporting do not support PIP and are single tuner CableCard setups.
15. What are the stand part numbers and dimensions for the available Samsung stands? --Stand Part-- --For:-- --Dims(WxDxH)--
TR4266X/XAA --HL-R4266W --39.5 x 17.8 x 19
TR46X3X/XAA --4667 --43 x 17.8 x 19
TR46L5SX/XAA --4677 --40.6 x 21.9 x 19.9
TR46X3X/XAA --5067/5078 --46.5 x 17.8 x 19
TR46X3X/XAA --5667 --52.4 x 17.8 x 19
TR46X3X/XAA --5688/5678 --52.5 x 17.8 x 19
TR56L5SX/XAA --5677 --49.9 x 21.9 x 19.9
TR61X2X/XAA --6167/6168/6178 --56.9 x 17.8 x 17

TR85X/XAA --HL-R5087W/HL-R5688W --59.6 x 20.2 x 21.8
TR61X2X/XAA --HL-R6768W --62.4 x 17.8 x 17

16. Is there any information about the differences between the HD3 / xHD3 generation chips and HD4 / xHD4 generation chips? Comments by Schaffer970 (AVSforum Member)
I have spent countless hours scouring the internet trying to figure out what the chip scheme is that TI is/will be using. Just lately things have fallen in place for me and I think I have it figured out (of course all of this may be BS too). The most recent developments in chip technologies made by TI are something called Fast Track Pixel (FTP) and DarkChip3. FTP actually changes the chip architecture (there is one less layer and the chip is easier to manufacture, see attachment) while DarkChip3, as I understand it, adds a coating to minimize light scattering from within the chip (I am not completely sure where FTP stops and DarkChip3 starts but it really doesn’t matter). What this all results in, is that the HD4 chip is a HD3 chip with FTP/DarkChip3 and the xHD4 is xHD3 with FTP/DarkChip3. I believe that for at least this year, the only new chips we will see will be the wobbulated HD4/xHD4. It would not surprise me to see a non-wobbulated chip in 2006.

I believe the naming scheme that TI seems to have settled on is the chip diagonal size followed by 720p, 1080p or some other designation such as XGA. So far we have .55 XGA, .8 720p (in the SIM2 HT300E), and rumors of .85 1080p.

In the mean time, the sets that Samsung is putting out seem to continue to have the existing HD2+ or HD3 chips in them with the inputs updated. Hopefully things will become clear as to when we will see the new chips over the next couple of months (look for the inclusion of DarkChip3 in info from Samsung).

Chip Diagram: Fast Track Pixel - FTP (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=5376289&fullpage=1)
17. Will 1080p be supported on the component video inputs on the 1080p units? Comment by BruiserG (New AVSforum Member)
The new 1080p products launcing this summer will NOT accept 1080p via DVI, HDMI or Analog Component Video. (See this post for more info POST (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5424367#post5424367)).
NOTE by UCSB - As far as we know there will not be a DVI input on the 1080p sets, so you might want to disregard that part of the above statement.
18. What information is available on the video processing chips in the new HLRxxxxW models? Links supplied by Schaffer970 (AVSforum Member)
Schaffer970's careful inspection of a FCC certification filing found that the new HDTV's are using these chips:
1080p Video Processing: Genesis GM1601 (http://www.gnss.com/products/gm1601.phtml) -- Spec Sheet (http://www.gnss.com/products/C1601-PBR-01D.PDF)
720p Video Processing: Genesis GM1501
19. How do you remove the pedestal base on the HLR series tabletop units? Comments supplied by LostGator (AVSforum Member)
Ok, after looking at removing the base a little more, I finally got it. Basically, remove the 2 screws on the back of the unit which hold the base on (you'll see what I mean when you see it). Push down the two tabs on the base until you hear a click or can see they're free of the main unit. Gently tap the the base from the front. This will push the base toward the back and it will just slide off. Even easier than the HLP's 10 screws, once you know how to do it.
20. What cables are required to connect your personal computer to the VGA/PC input on a Samsung HDTV?

Text by UCSB, Technical Solution supplied by Schaffer970 & FlySaab (AVS Members)
Samsung HDTVs have a VGA/PC input that can be used to connect a personal computer to the TV. This input is an analog input. The cable that you will require will need to have a VGA connector on the HDTV end. On the computer end of the cable you will have two options. The option that you select will depend on the type of output you want to use on your computer’s video card. Video cards have two types of outputs: VGA and DVI.

If you want to use the VGA output on your video card, then you will have to get a standard VGA to VGA monitor cable.

If you want to use a DVI connector on your video card then the situation is a little more complicated. You will need to determine if the DVI output on the video card is a DVI-I output with analog support. Here is an excellent description of how you can determine if you have a DVI-I (digital and analog support) or DVI-D (digital only) connector: CLICK HERE (http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/dvi/dvicabletypes.htm). If you have a DVI-I connector AND your video card supports analog output through the DVI-I connector, then you can use the DVI output to connect to the HDTV. In that case you will need a cable with a DVI-A connector on the computer end and a VGA connector on the HDTV end.

You should also check that your video card will support the resolution that you want to use (1280x720 for 720p, 1920x1080 for 1080p) and that you have enough memory on your video card to support your planned configuration.

For further information check this post: CLICK HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5792266&&#post5792266)



RELATED PRODUCTS:

HD DVD PLAYERS:
DVD-HD950 ($250, May 2005), DVD-HD840 ($199, March 2005), DVD-V9500
LINK: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=492016&highlight=dvdhd950
PHOTO: DVD-HD950 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=4973711&fullpage=1)

AV RECEIVER:
AV-R3000 – 7.1 Channel, All Digital Receiver ($4,999, May 2005)
LINK: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4939571#post4939571
LINK (includes photo): http://www.audioholics.com/ces/CESprocessors/SamsungAVR3000THXreceiver.php

PLASMA:
HPR5072 – 50” Plasma HDTV (April 2005, $6,999) PHOTO (http://www.pcmag.com/slideshow_viewer/0,2393,l=142329&s=26817&a=142327&po=5,00.asp)
http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/PressRelease/PressRelease.asp?seq=20050105_0000089656

CRT:
30" Thin Profile CRT http://ultimateavmag.com/news/010905ces/



CHANGES TO SPECS:

01-10-2005 11:00 AM - Removed reference to IEEE 1394 input / output from both the series 68 and series 88 specs

01-10-2005 11:00 AM - Added question about black lacquer cases to open questions area

01-10-2005 11:20 AM - Reduced the contrast ratio on the HLR5688W from 10,000:1 to 5,000:1 per Samsung press release - thanks administrator

01-10-2005 11:50 AM - Reduced the number of HDMI inputs on the HLR5087W from 2 to 1 per Samsung press release -thanks administrator

01-10-2005 12:07 PM - Added comment about some models being available in an all black lacquer case

01-10-2005 12:20 PM - Removed question about black lacquer cases, since it was answered by pjr - thanks pjr

01-10-2005 12:20 PM - Added a question covering whether 1080p can be sent to the 68/88 sets via HDMI

01-10-2005 12:20 PM - Added a question covering what computer resolutions are supported on the 1080p sets

01-10-2005 12:20 PM - Added question about computer gaming capabilities on the 68/88 series

01-10-2005 04:45 PM - Added comment about possible chip upgrade between 88 and 68 series

01-10-2005 07:50 PM - Added question about VGA / PC Connector

01-10-2005 11:11 PM - Added 78 series info and photos

01-10-2005 11:11 PM - Modified info on black lacquer case

01-10-2005 11:30 PM - Added VGA/PC input to all units

01-10-2005 11:41 PM - Added Photo Link HLR6168W

01-10-2005 11:50 PM - Added 67 series placecard

01-11-2005 09:30 AM - Added HLR6768W photo

01-11-2005 09:30 AM - Added addition info to video gaming question

01-11-2005 01:30 PM - Updated Info on 78 series and moved to top of 1080p section, added disclaimer about accuracy of information

01-11-2005 08:00 PM - Added TV Guide electronic program guide to all models

01-11-2005 08:20 PM - Added IEEE 1394 info in 1080p area, added new pictures

01-11-2005 09:00 PM - Closed out question about the future of HLPxx74W line; closed out question about additional models in 2005

01-12-2005 12:15 AM - Added open issue about center channel speaker shelf

01-12-2005 10:20 AM - Added several photos, fixed a broken link, text editing

01-12-2005 02:30 PM - Closed out question about HDMI digital video resolutions and posted answer in the closed issues area, plus added info to spec area for all 1080p units

01-12-2005 03:45 PM - Added 1080p vs 720p comparison photo

01-12-2005 11:45 PM - Closed open issue about center channel shelf - none of the 2005 models have one

01-13-2005 12:15 AM - Updated DLP chip info with our latest data

01-13-2005 12:30 AM - Updated text in observations area

01-13-2005 09:00 AM - Added "The Unknown"

01-13-2005 09:20 AM - Added audio differences question between 68 and 78 series

01-13-2005 09:27 AM - Added the MSRP for the 78 series question

01-13-2005 12:45 PM - Created FAQ's section, moved open issues up higher in document

01-13-2005 10:00 PM - Deleted HLR6778W entry, can't confirm that it was a real product

01-13-2005 10:15 PM - Added link to Gemstar TV Guide + Gold DEMO

01-13-2005 10:30 PM - Added a description of AnyNet to the spec's

01-13-2005 11:00 PM - Added HLPxx63W series measurements for comparison

01-13-2005 11:00 PM - Added CableCard open issue

01-14-2005 09:47 AM - Added 3 small photos to display within the post to help people quickly understand the difference between black lacquer and floating screen units

01-14-2005 11:00 AM - Updated IEEE 1394 data based on Kirk@TVauthority's excellent information

01-14-2005 12:05 PM - Added additional 70" series 78 photo

01-14-2005 04:30 PM - Updated status on 50", 70" 78 series; closed open issues on 50"/70" and 78 series MSRP

01-14-2005 07:45 PM - Added an additional comment to the FAQ section indicating that there will be not HDMI 1080p input

01-14-2005 11:00 PM - Closed out the two open issues on 1080p PQ, and DLP chips

01-14-2005 11:00 PM - Create new list of items we will want to test once production sets are released

01-14-2005 11:00 PM - Added viewing screen design issue to problems to check area

01-15-2005 07:40 PM - Added warning about errors in C/Net coverage on video

01-15-2005 11:00 PM - Added new 6168 and 7078 pictures

01-15-2005 11:20 PM - Revised layout and small placeholder photos

01-16-2005 10:00 AM - Updated layout and organized text better

01-17-2005 09:00 AM - Added first pedestal model photo - great photo

01-18-2005 01:15 PM - Added link to additional 1080p screen shots and technical info in series 78 section

01-18-2005 02:00 PM - Updated HDMI digital input specs to indicate that 1080p resolution will NOT be offered on 1080p series 68,78, 88

01-18-2005 02:00 PM - Added comments to 1080p input section

01-18-2005 02:10 PM - Change lead in comments on 68 and 78 series to indicate that the internals are the same on both the 68 and 78 series

01-18-2005 02:15 PM - Added a comment about HLPxx74W series production ending in March or April

01-18-2005 03:30 PM - Updated copy per suggestions --- if any other changes or corrections need to be made --- please PM me

01-18-2005 08:45 PM - Added HiRes photos, Samsung press release link

01-18-2005 09:15 PM - Added LoRes previews of HiRes photos

01-18-2005 09:15 PM - Raised guess price on HLR5078W

01-19-2005 10:00 PM - Added additional photos to 68, 67, 87, 88 series

01-19-2005 10:30 PM - New POST photos of 5087 and 5688, plus fixed link to administrators comments in FAQ #9

01-20-2005 04:50 PM - Added additional photos and placecards from gotHDTV

01-20-2005 06:00 PM - Added FAQ # 12

01-20-2005 06:15 PM - Added FAQ # 13

01-21-2005 10:00 AM - Removed stock Samsung photos from some screen sizes after determining the photos were not of those screen sizes

01-21-2005 05:30 PM - Replaced 6768 Photo #1 with a better version

01-22-2005 11:45 AM - Added PR $6,999 price note back in for 67" 68 series

01-22-2005 06:20 PM - Updated Photo #7 in 7078 with higher quality image

01-23-2005 05:45 PM - Added addition information to FAQ #13, including a viewing angle photo

01-25-2005 11:00 AM - Added Photo #8 to 7078 photo area

01-26-2005 03:25 PM - Added Photo #9 to 7078 photo area

01-26-2005 03:35 PM - Moved release date for 87/88 series to Apr 2005

01-30-2005 11:50 PM - Removed all white text from post, AVS white users can now use FAQs without a problem

01-31-2005 10:00 AM - Added photo #10, 70" 78 series

01-31-2005 11:20 AM - Added photo #11, 70" 78 series

01-31-2005 12:40 PM - Added photo #12, 70" 78 series

02-05-2005 10:30 PM - Replaced several 78 series photos with higher resolution versions

02-05-2005 10:40 PM - Added a new photo to 6168 photo section

02-05-2005 10:45 PM - Added a new photo to 7078 photo section

02-07-2005 06:00 PM - Added photo #8 to 6168 photo section

02-07-2005 06:15 PM - Added technical drawing links to the measurements sections of 67, 68, 78 series

02-08-2005 01:45 PM - Fixed HRLxxxxW typo ... now HLRxxxxW

02-08-2005 08:20 PM - Added Photo #9 in 6168 section

02-11-2005 10:15 AM - Added Photo #10 in 6168 section

02-11-2005 10:30 AM - Replaced Photo #4 in 7078 section with larger, clearer version

02-15-2005 02:15 PM - Added 1080p component video and 1080p tuner questions to open issues area

02-16-2005 12:50 PM - Confirmed xHD3 in HLR5688W, updated specs

02-16-2005 01:00 PM - Added TI DLP Brochure in Series 78 section

02-16-2005 02:00 PM - Added TI DLP Presentation in Series 78 section

02-17-2005 09:40 PM - Begin creating the HiRes photo area added 5078, 5678

02-20-2005 09:30 PM - Added 6168 HiRes sample, removed 6768 photo in from of FAQ's

02-22-2005 02:30 PM - Added the smudged screen issue resolution as item #14 in FAQ section

02-22-3005 02:35 PM - Added update about Samsung POSSIBLY not producing the Series 78 product line and going with the Series 68 line alone

02-22-2005 03:00 PM - Added the CableCard issue resolution as item #15 in the FAQ section

02-23-2005 07:00 PM - Added link to high resolution gallery

02-25-2005 10:45 AM - Revised Series 67 release dates to mid MAY

03-01-2005 06:33 PM - Removed TV Guide needs to be confirmed from Series 67, it has been confirmed

03-08-2005 10:00 AM - Added question about 1080p over 1394 to open issues area

03-10-2005 07:45 PM - Added photo of the back of a HLR4667W to 67 Series section

03-10-2005 07:45 PM - Added link to HLR4667W preliminary manual

03-11-2005 09:30 PM - Updated 67 manual link and description associated with BACK photos

03-11-2005 09:30 PM - Increased the number of S-Video and composite inputs on the 67 series to 3 each

03-18-2005 12:21 PM - Updated FAQ #9 to indicate the production of HLRxx77W

03-21-2005 10:30 PM - Add measurements for all units, added HLRxx67W final owners manual link, add FAQ #16 with all stand dimensions

03-24-2005 12:15 AM - Added HLR4266W to 67 series section ... this is a new 42" model

03-24-2005 12:15 AM - Added digital audio output (optical) to all NEW units with CableCard (not 77 series)

03-24-2005 12:30 AM - Added weight in lbs. for the 67 series units, data taken from owners manual

03-24-2005 12:45 AM - Added 77 series units to the 720p section

03-24-2005 12:45 AM - Changed the release dates for the 67 series to mid APRIL, changed the release date for the 87 series to mid APRIL

03-24-2005 08:00 AM - Corrected 77 series pricing

03-24-2005 08:10 AM - Added HLR4266W manual to 67 series area; also added weight to specs area

03-24-2005 08:30 AM - Added preliminary spec sheet links for 67 / 87 series

03-24-2005 09:00 AM - Added FAQ #17 covering chip technology updates

03-25-2005 03:30 PM - Noted in 67 series section that HLR4266W does not have CableCard or TV Guide

03-25-2005 06:30 PM - Removed HLR4266W CableCard and TV Guide statments, they are actually included with the unit

03-26-2005 10:30 AM - Removed the tentative comments from HLR5078W and HLR7078W models in the 78 series section - this is based on Samsung continuing include these models in dealer communications

03-26-2005 09:00 PM - Added more detail to 77 series specs

03-26-2005 11:45 PM - Removed "What we don't know" question about dimensions ... we have them now. Also, removed FAQ about dimensions.

04-02-2005 10:45 PM - Added FAQ #17, there will be no 1080p component video input on new 1080p units

04-02-2005 10:45 PM - Removed open question on 1080p component video input

04-02-2005 11:15 PM - Added HLR5688W preliminary manual to 88 series section ... this is the first 1080p manual

04-05-2005 02:45 PM - Clarified that 1920x1080 @ 60 Hz will be supported on the PC/VGA input on the 1080p models

04-07-2005 10:45 AM - Reset 67 series release date to mid May

04-08-2005 10:30 PM - Updated 67 Series contrast ratio to read up to 2500:1

04-08-2005 10:30 PM - Add link to Samsung HLRxx67W Series brochure ... excellent

04-09-2005 09:00 AM - Confirmed HD4 in HLRxx67W series

04-09-2005 10:00 AM - Added SamsungUSA.com link for HLR4266W

04-11-2005 10:30 PM - Added HLRxx87W owners manual to 87 series section

04-11-2005 10:30 PM - Added a possible new model HLR5687W to the 87 series section

04-11-2005 11:00 PM - Added FAQ #18 about video processing chips

04-19-2005 03:00 PM - Added comment to 67 CR spec indicating confusion over 2000:1 or 2500:1 --- RESET IT BACK TO 2500:1

04-25-2005 09:00 PM - Added HLRxx67W Quick Reference Guide

04-25-2005 09:30 PM - Added open issue / question about customer firmware updates to "What we don't know yet:" section.

04-29-2005 09:30 AM - Revised 5688 price and delivery date; Revised 5087 price and delivery date

04-29-2005 09:45 AM - Reviese 68 / 78 series pricing and delivery dates

04-29-2005 10:00 AM - Revised Cinema Smooth Generation Light Engine spec from gen 5 to gen 6 on 68/78 series

04-29-2005 10:15 AM - Added dynamic black comment to 68 / 78 / 88 series

04-29-2005 10:20 AM - Added HES press release to top of POST

04-29-2005 10:30 AM - Updated 88 / 87 series specs

04-29-2005 07:45 PM - Added Photo of rear inputs on 68 / 78 series

04-29-2005 11:00 PM - Added 7178, deleted 7078 model

04-29-2005 11:15 PM - Added comment to 1080p intro stating that the internal components of the 68, 78, 88 series are all equivalent

05-02-2005 10:00 PM - Removed text discussing possible non-production of 78 series ... we now know it will be released

05-02-2005 10:00 PM - Simplified PC support question under information that we don't know

05-03-2005 08:30 AM - Revised 67 series availability to first week in May

05-09-2005 10:00 AM - Created a separate 720p Owner's Thread

05-12-2005 09:24 AM - Revised 78 series pricing

05-13-2005 10:00 AM - No VGA/PC, 1394 on HLRxx87W

05-16-2005 11:50 AM - Added link to Samsung.com to 67 series area

05-24-2005 08:30 AM - Added reminder to check the HDMI input on 68, 78, 88 series for 1080p support

05-24-2005 09:45 AM - Updated HLR5688W availability to June

05-24-2005 07:20 PM - Added comment to top of 720p section indicating that all 2005 models are shipping and discussing 2003, 2004 models

05-24-2005 07:45 PM - Added links to SamsungUSA.com in the 77, 87 series areas

05-24-2005 08:00 PM - Added DLP Chip Operation area to each model line

05-24-2005 08:30 PM - Added links to 78 series spec sheets at the top of the 78 series area, excellent doc

05-24-2005 08:40 PM - Changed all 1080p contrast ratio specs to read 'up to 10,000:1'

05-24-2005 09:00 PM - Added brightness spec to 78 series section

05-24-2005 09:15 PM - Updated 78 series dimensions

05-24-2005 09:25 PM - Revised 68 series dimensions

05-24-2005 09:35 PM - Added lamp specs to series 78 section

05-25-2005 10:25 AM - Added brightness and lamp specs to 68 series section

05-26-2005 04:00 PM - Added standard TI chip descriptions in the form (.xx" xxxxp) format

05-26-2005 04:00 PM - Added DLP Chip Note to 87 series section describing the HD2++

05-26-2005 07:45 PM - Confirmed 2500:1 contrast ratio on HLRxx87W

05-26-2005 08:30 PM - Added a link to owners thread in 87 series section

05-26-2005 08:45 PM - Added a link to owners thread in 67 series section

05-27-2005 01:00 AM - HLR4266W spec differences from HLRxx67W models are listed in the 67 series section

05-31-2005 08:30 AM - Confirmed HD2+ in 5087, closed out open issue about DLP chip in unit and updated text in 87 series area

06-01-2005 11:45 AM - Added brightness and lamps specs to the 67 series area

06-01-2005 12:00 PM - Added FAQ #18, instructions for removing the pedestal base from tabletop models

06-06-2005 11:30 AM - Added technical drawings for 67, 68, 78, 87 series, great for installation planning

06-11-2005 06:00 PM - Added two questions to the "tests we will want to make after systems are available" area.

06-14-2005 03:15 PM - Added 68 series spec sheets

06-14-2005 03:20 PM - Removed estimated from 6768 lamp spec, it will be using the 132/120 lamp

06-14-2005 03-25 PM - Updated 6768 brightness spec to 550

06-14-2005 03:45 PM - Added a question about DVD players (to upshift or not) to our items that we will want to test

06-15-2005 05:30 AM - Revised 68, 78 release dates to July

06-18-2005 12:45 AM - Added power consumption specs to all models.

06-19-2005 01:45 PM - Updated the HLR4266W specifications

06-20-2005 11:51 PM - Added Canadian Models ONLY section

06-22-2005 08:30 AM - Updated Canadian Models based on input from Canadian AVS member

06-23-2005 11:30 AM - Added FAQ #20, Cabling to connect HDTV to Personal Computer

06-24-2005 09:15 AM - Updated Canadian Specs

06-24-2005 04:00 PM - Added HLRxx78W series OWNERS MANUAL to 78 series section

06-24-2005 05:00 PM - Added HLR5688 online OWNERS MANUAL to 88 series section

06-24-2005 09:30 PM - Added HLR5688 pdf OWNERS MANUAL to 88 series section

06/25/2005 09:15 PM - Updated VGA/PC spec on HLRxx64W's

07/01/2005 12:15 PM - Updated HLR5688W due date to July

07/04/2005 10:45 AM - Added question #5 about DNIe to open questions

07/05/2005 10:45 AM - Added question #6 about multichannel HDMI audio to open questions

07/05/2005 12:15 PM - Added question #8 about input labels to the thing we want to test section

07/05/2005 01:00 PM - Added HLRxx68W owners manual to 68 series section

07/08/2005 03:00 PM - Added question #9 to items we want to test area, covers 1:1 pixel mapping from computer

07/11/2005 09:00 AM - Added 68 series brochure and created new measurements area for TV without base is 68 series area

07/11/2005 09:00 AM - Added 78 series brochure and created new measurements area for TV without base is 78 series area

07/14/2005 09:45 PM - Added a link to photos of internal components in 68 / 78 series.

07/15/2005 09:30 AM - Added 87 / 88 Spec Sheets

07/16/2005 12:30 AM - Created a separate 1080p Owner's Thread

08/09/2005 11:00 AM - Marked HLR4677W as discontinued

10/06/2005 11:00 AM - Updated HLR7178W release date

10/08/2005 01:45 PM - Updated HLR7178W screen & release date

Well, let the debate begin on what chips are really being used in the various dlp sets. There was discussion early on about a page on the Carl Zeiss site that referenced a xHD4 chip. I was looking around there again today and there is a pdf file Zeiss (http://www.zeiss.de/C12567BE00473A92/EmbedTitelIntern/Imagebroschuereenglish/$File/image_engl.pdf) that has a description of their DLP Optical Modules for Projection TV (last page on the right). The description is Best xHD3/xHD4, High Demand HD2/HD2+ and Cost-Effective HD3/HD4. The x chips are listed as 1080p, DVE, Smooth-Picture and Dynamic Black. It is apparent that there really is a xHD4/HD4 chip. What they consist of I have no idea.

It does seem like there is a new 1080p chip that goes beyond the xHD3. The xHD3 was spec’d with a contrast ratio of 5000:1 and now the new models appear with a contrast ratio of 10,000:1. Plus TI had an additional year to make improvements. The 720p HD3 chips had contrast ratio’s of around 1,500:1. If someone at the show could report the contrast ratio’s on the new HLRxx67W series units, that would give us an idea if the HD3 had been upgraded / replaced. Below is a press release from Optoma, but basically it says they are using a new HD4 in their 720p units and it has contrast ratio of 2,500:1. I’ll bet the new Samsung DLP’s have a contrast ratio of 2,500:1 and are using the HD4. If there is new technology in the HD3 yielding an HD4, then certainly they had to integrate this new technology into the xHD3. This would give us something like a xHD4.

Another tip ... Samsung is assuring show attendees, that they are using the latest techology.


===================

Optoma Showcases First Rear Projection HDTV Featuring the Latest HD4 DLP and DarkChip3 Technology from
Texas Instruments

First public display of new digital projection technology from Texas Instruments, the HD504 delivers an astounding 2500:1 contrast ratio and film quality HD image

LAS VEGAS, CES, Jan. 6, 2005 – Optoma Technology, Inc. is raising the bar in the HDTV market by being the first company to introduce rear projection High Definition displays with the newest HD4™ DLP™ and DarkChip3™ technology from Texas Instruments. With the introduction of several pioneering solutions for home theater aficionados, including digital projectors, plasma and rear projection TVs, and video scalers, Optoma is sure to make a big splash at the show. Optoma is exhibiting at the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in Las Vegas (January 6-9, 2005), at the Optoma booth located in the South Hall section 1, #20538.

CES represents the first public technology demonstration of the latest HD4 DLP, DarkChip3, and SmoothPicture™ technology from Texas Instruments, delivering the world's finest HDTV projection images to date. The HD504 projects a superior 2500:1 contrast ratio with a native resolution of 720p for a film-quality HD image, on a non-reflective, fine-grade screen. The latest technology available from Texas Instruments achieves both higher brightness and deeper black levels by “filling in” the area where the digital micro mirror connects to its hinge – the so-called “dimple.” In addition the gap between the mirrors has been further reduced and the backing to the mirrors has become more light absorbent.

The HD504 measures only 14.8-inches deep and weighs only 90 pounds.

If someone at the show could take a close look at the image on the 50" 720p pedestal model and tell us if the unit has distinct pixels (like HD2+ models) or the wobulation effect like HD3 models of the past, it would be useful in understanding if the HD2+ is continuing in this model. If wobulation is present, then they have switched in a HD4.

This non-production 70" photo gives you some idea of the cosmetics of the new models:

http://www.audioholics.com/news/uploads/DSC02153_lg.jpg

OK ... here is another photo ... what is going on? We seem to be getting photos of two different cosmetic versions. One with the monitor floating above the pedestal and the other with more of a single unit appearance. This is a 56" set.

http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/util_get_image/8/0,1311,sz=1&i=88151,00.jpg

pic of the 61in floating model with matte bezel. again the ones with the shiny bezels are the "upscale" models. Guts are completly identical.

close up of the "floating" screen.

comparison pics between 720p n 1080p. cant really tell much, but here they are.
Most were still images.

How was dithering on these sets?

with some pc source material, this was where i could really see the lower sse on the new sets.

The 1080p unit is being compared to a 720p set in black. Is black going to be an option (or standard) for the 720p case?

Did the computer graphics look clear and stable on the 1080p set?

There is already a thread about Samsung at CES that has discussion of their new release philosophy and more related info.

Originally posted by kyungkim
with some pc source material, this was where i could really see the lower sse on the new sets.

Was the PC resolution 1080p on the 1080p set?
Thanks,
GeoffQ

I am wondering if it handel 1920x1080p or did they have to do something to get it working

Also how was teh rainbow effect on its, was is noticable.

thanks

They couldnt tell me the pc resolution on the 1080p set. You can tell from the photos that the resolution is higher on the 1080p, since all the materials appear smaller.

This brings us to point number one with these 1080p guys.
No one could tell me if the new sets can take a 1080p signal from the outside. This isnt only a samsung problem. I asked at every mfg of 1080p tvs and all of them confirmed at least the on the digital side, they were cut off from taking a 1080p signal. Only hope is for the vga/rgb input on the samsung and panasonic. Neither of which could confirm whether or not the vga inputs were confined to a lower pc resolution.

K

Originally posted by kyungkim
This isnt only a samsung problem. I asked at every mfg of 1080p tvs and all of them confirmed at least the on the digital side, they were cut off from taking a 1080p signal.

K

Thanks K for all yor work on this topic.

This is to bad as I was hoping for a 1080p DVI input and use as my primary computer monitor.

This really SUCKS!!!!!

I wonder if it has anything to do with the studios. I really hope not.

GeoffQ

Originally posted by kyungkim
This brings us to point number one with these 1080p guys.
No one could tell me if the new sets can take a 1080p signal from the outside. This isnt only a samsung problem. I asked at every mfg of 1080p tvs and all of them confirmed at least the on the digital side, they were cut off from taking a 1080p signal. Only hope is for the vga/rgb input on the samsung and panasonic. Neither of which could confirm whether or not the vga inputs were confined to a lower pc resolution.The reason that 1080p is not accepted by HDMI inputs is because all the HDMI chips currently being made only go up to 1080i. Because of this the Sharp 45" LCD could accept 1080p through the DVI input but couldn't accept it through the HDMI input. It will probably take another year or two before a manufacturer decides that the market is large enough to make HDMI chips that can go up to 1080p. Also the HDMI specs do allow 1080p at 60 fps and that includes up to 36 Mbps of PCM audio (8 channels at 24-bit/192-kHz).

I only want DVI for my computer.
GeoffQ

Yup, hdcp is capped at a 1080i. The studios sticking it to us again.
RGB has more than enuff bandwidth for 1080p, front pjs have been using this for yrs. So native 1080p could still be possible, if samsung does this right.
K

I read a while back about the HD3 chip using "wobbling" to achieve 1080i. I was wondering if this is the case with the chips Samsung is putting in these sets (since we don't have a real name to call them yet) to achieve 1080p? Do the chips in these new units actually have enough mirrors to natively do 1920x1080? Sorry if this is redundant, just curious.

I understand there is a fundemental argument over which devices are "REAL" HD devices. Presonally, I'm fine with techniques like wobble as long as there is no perceivable difference. Or better put, if it can display 1080p (good luck finding a source until blu-ray and hd-dvd) and keep up with the big boys for cheaper, then right on.


Cheers,
-Brian

Cokecan ... you bring up a good point. TI uses 960x1080 chips and each mirror handles two pixels. The topic has been extensively discussed since their introduction about a year ago (720p chips at the time). In the 720p arena, I think people thought that the picture produced was more film like without the screen door effect of prior DLP chips. But, some felt that this lead to a softer picture. For that reason, many perferred the 1280x720 HD2+ chip. Which generated a sharper image.

To bring that discussion up-to-date, I guess we would need to see if the current chips have made any progress in the sharpness and definition area.

Some more notes on pq here, good and bad.

The compter graphics display was very impressive, stable and not "flickery". No hints of the wobulation effect.

These guys retain that very digital, dlp look. False contouring or clay facing was a bit noticeable up close. But at proper viewing distances, this really shouldnt be a problem.

Sammie dlps have always been finicky with what you feed it. I think its gonna count triple with these 1080p's. The source for the demos was a shared voom feed, prob split about a 100 times. It wasnt the best and it really showed on these sets.

Some of the artifcats i saw was the aformentioned false countouring and a bit of ringining. I'd imagine a hdmi source fed 1080i would look much better than what was on display. In fact, some of the other 1080p sammies shown in other areas of CES did look different if not a bit better than the rows in the main room.

I mentioned this before, but blacks were very very impressive on the new sammies. Im very intrested in watching some dark material on this guy to really check out how it handles shadow detail.

K

Originally posted by kyungkim
Yup, hdcp is capped at a 1080i. The studios sticking it to us again.HDCP only encrypts the data and does not reduce the available bandwidth. In fact the DVI input on the 45" Sharp LCD is HDCP compliant and can go up to 1080p at 60 Hz. There is no resolution cap on HDCP connections though there is worry that component video output will be downconverted to 480p for Blu-ray and HD-DVD.

Richard, i belive you're right.
The hdmi dvi ports are more than capable of handling the badnwidth. But the sony rep said for the port to be "compliant with hdcp" they could not accept a resolution through those ports at anything greater than 1080i. I hope he is wrong and they can infact take in unecncrypted 1080p via hdmi.

Didnt see this posted, but heres the placcard on the 56in model.

K

What purpose would it serve in selling a 1080p DLP that cannot take a direct 1080p signal over HDMI??


BigJJL

From what I have read the HDMI/DVI ports can just barely handle 1080p, they can easily handle 1080i (under what is called single link, double link can handle a much higher resolution). There is an article on Toms Hardware that discusses this in great detail with regard to video cards - but never comes out and says whether 1920x1080p really works all of the time. Link: http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041129/index.html

check out: graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041129/tft_connection-06.html (excerpt from the above articel)

Not bad reading..

The problems isn't that DVI can't handle it -- but most DVI is single link and not dual-link. Not sure what the HDMI spec says, but I'm off to read that next. Standard DVI tops out around 1920x1200, according to this article.


-Brian

HDMI is a superset of DVI so everything (video wise) DVI can do HDMI can do. Your right, its the single/dual link thing that limits the output. 1920x1080p is right on the edge of what single link can do.

I totally understand the HDMI is effectivly the same as DVI, plus some lame audio which I personally can't see the use for :P (i like my toslink cables), but I wonder if it has the capabililty of dual link DVI over it.

-Brian

I'm about 99% sure that HDMI includes the dual link feature.

Originally posted by schaffer970
There is an article on Toms Hardware that discusses this in great detail with regard to video cards - but never comes out and says whether 1920x1080p really works all of the time. Link: http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041129/index.html

Only if the monitor(tv set) can handle reduced blanking.

Interesting though that the ATI chips pass a cleaner signal.

GeoffQ

Originally posted by kyungkim
Richard, i belive you're right.
The hdmi dvi ports are more than capable of handling the badnwidth. But the sony rep said for the port to be "compliant with hdcp" they could not accept a resolution through those ports at anything greater than 1080i. I hope he is wrong and they can infact take in unecncrypted 1080p via hdmi.The person you spoke with definitely made that up. The HDCP license does not even mention resolution and certainly doesn't restrict it. Though it requires more expensive circuits for HDMI to accept 1080p there is no reason why it can't be done today. Basically the real reason we haven't seen a 1080p HDMI input is that none of the CE manufacturers bothered to order any most likely because of price.

Originally posted by schaffer970
I'm about 99% sure that HDMI includes the dual link feature. Standard DVI can't do 1080p on a single link connection but HDMI can by using a reduced blanking interval of 5% (compared to just under 20% for DVI), which is part of the HDMI specification. Also the HDMI found on consumer electronics is single link though there is an HDMI specification for dual link. Since 1080p works fine on single link HDMI I would be surprised to see dual link HDMI inputs on HDTVs.

It looks like the new HLRxx67W's, the 67 series, has a contrast ratio of 2000:1. This is lower than the 2500:1 in the Optoma announcement for their new 720p with the HD4 chip. I guess this leaves us guessing about whether the 67 series is using the HD4 or not.

HDCP, from my understanding, is a handshake that happens between the output unit (dvd, dish, etc..), and the display unit so that unwanted copying doesn't happen. The output deveice asks the display device "are you cool for me to send this digital data to?" and the display device says "yep, i'm in the circle".

This is definitely independant from DVI or HDMI. Though, for DVI or HDMI this standard of communcation has to exist to keep the powers above happy(and video over DVI or HDMI is the same thing). For anyone that has a computer monitr that is DVI, you should know that you have a great digital signal that has NO HDCP protection on it. But you have all the fun of dealing with your PC, instead of just being stick the disc in and watch a DVD.

I've never read or heard anything about HDCP limiting anything accept your ability to copy the orginial source material at a bit rate that your can reproduce with neglible or no effects.

And just to bring things back -- the new Samsungs look awesome. I'm so going to hang out a few months and see how they perform!

Cheers,
Brian


What I'm interetsed is what the HDMI standard did -- why do you need audio and other crap besides video going to your monitor? I'd rather dedicate as much to video as possible instead of hiding behind some random new standard. The HDMI cable is really nice compared to DVI, but other then that, why reinvent the wheel?

Design for the lowest common denominator I suppose. Plug the DVD/HDDVD/Blu-ray/cable box into the back and picture and sound come out. Don't forget those of us on this forum are not quite "normal":)

Originally posted by schaffer970
Design for the lowest common denominator I suppose. Plug the DVD/HDDVD/Blu-ray/cable box into the back and picture and sound come out. Don't forget those of us on this forum are not quite "normal":)

Yeah nobody would want to use these beautiful fixed pixel displays as PC monitors. That would be just silly.

GeoffQ

That's why i want one!

I want a combo of DVDs looking nice and being able to play hi-res video games.

If i'm going to drop a crap load of money on something that even remotely comes close to the resolution of my computer for other sources, then dammit it's a monitor! I'm not fooled by anyone's marketing machine.

I'm getting annoyed with this cross-over of monitor/tvs. They are monitors. And the good ones are really nice monitors.

We are getting to this point.

-b

Originally posted by cokecan
That's why i want one!

I want a combo of DVDs looking nice and being able to play hi-res video games.

-b

After the HLR5688W comes out in Feb or so, you will want to revisit the ability of the 1080p sets to support hi-res video games. There has been extensive talk about video game play on the current generation HLPxxxx sets. But, as far as I know game play on the 1080p is an untested area at this point.

Does anyone know what the story is on the black lacquer cases on some of the DLP's? Is this going to be a production case? If so, any idea on which models it will be offered? From the 720p vs 1080p comparison photo posted earlier, it appears that the entire case is black.

Originally posted by UCSB
PEDESTAL MODEL --- 88 Series: :
HLR5688W (56”, FEB 2005, $4.999)
> Cinema Smooth Generation 5, DNIe
> Anti-glare Matte Screen Finish
> 2 HDMI, 2 Component Video, 1 S-Video, 2 Composite, , [IEEE 1394 – Unconfirmed - Probably Not Offered]
> ATSC Tuner / NTSC Tuner, Digital Cable Ready with CableCARD
> AnyNET
> 30 Watts, Internal Speakers
> Dimensions Comparable to Current HLP5685W (HLP5685W: 58.7"(W) x 58.3"(H) x 21.9"(D))
> DLP Chip: per Samsung, Latest 1080p (xHD3, xHD4 – Designation Unknown)
> Contrast Ratio: 10,000:1
> Color Wheel: 7 Segment
Bill,

I believe you have the wrong contrast ratio listed for the HLR5688W... According to this Samsung press release, the HLR5688W will have a 5000:1 contrast ratio, not 10,000:1.

http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/PressRelease/PressRelease.asp?seq=20050106_0000090605

This leads me to believe that the HLR5688W will have the xHD3 chip and the new 68 Series sets due out in June will have a 10,000:1 contrast ratio and a new HD chip. (xHD4?)

Originally posted by Administrator
Bill,

I believe you have the wrong contrast ratio listed for the HLR5688W... According to this Samsung press release, the HLR5688W will have a 5000:1 contrast ratio, not 10,000:1.

http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/PressRelease/PressRelease.asp?seq=20050106_0000090605

This leads me to believe that the HLR5688W will have the xHD3 chip and the new 68 Series sets due out in June will have a 10,000:1 contrast ratio and a new HD chip. (xHD4?)

Administrator ... thanks for the update! I have changed the spec's at the top of the thread. In addition, since I can not find any other mention of the IEEE 1394 input/output except in the Twice article, I have deleted the 1394 reference that I had in both th 68 and 88 series. This is a shame because I'm sure there are many, myself included that would have been able to use 1394 with the CableCard capabilities on these sets.

Originally posted by UCSB
Administrator ... thanks for the update!
No problem! And yes it would be a shame if they don't support IEEE 1394...

Bill,

I also noticed, according to the same Samsung press release, that the HLR5087W will only have a single HDMI port... Not two like the HLR5688W.

Originally posted by Administrator
Bill,

I also noticed, according to the same Samsung press release, that the HLR5087W will only have a single HDMI port... Not two like the HLR5688W.

Thanks Administrator! I have updated the spec's at the top of this thread.

Below are some of the open issues that I feel would be valuable to better understand. If anyone comes across some additional info on the net or in reviewing their photos or notes from the show, please post. If anyone took a photo of the inputs on the 68 series, it could be used to resolve the IEEE 1394 issue.

========================

1. What is the PQ on the new 1080p models?

2. What TI DLP chips are used in the new models? TI and Samsung are not discussing chips, simply referring to 1080p chips and 720p chips. One press release from Optoma talked about a HD4 (720p) chip and therefore it is really tough to understand what is going on with these chips. When TI introduced the xHD3 (1080p) they claimed a 5000:1 contrast ratio, so it would seem they have a new chip since this has risen to 10000:1 now.

3. What are the depth measurements, and or dimensions, on the new models by model number? Even a couple of reference points would allow us to see the trend.

4. Which models will offer IEEE 1394 ports? What will be the capability of those ports? A news report from TWICE mentioned 1394, was it just in error? IEEE 1394 info was from www.twice.com (http://www.twice.com/article/CA491026.html).

5. What is the contrast ratio spec’s for the HLR5087W 720p pedestal model?

6. Confirm the number of HDMI inputs on the 67 series 720p models. Will there be 1 or 2 HDMI inputs?

7. Are these all of the planned models for 2005, or will Samsung be adding models later in the year? Last year they announced all of the 2004 models at CES.

8. Why aren’t there any 46” or 50” 1080p sets? I would really like to see a 50”. Many have commented that 1080p is not needed or wasted at these sizes, but that does not make sense to me as I sit here working on a small computer monitor with more resolution than a 1080p HDTV.

9. Which of the current models will be continuing? Specifically, what are the plans for the HLPxx74W, Tantus thin bezel models. Many planning to buy in 2005 might want to know the fate of this HD2+ unit.

10. In 720p vs 1080p image comparison photos from the show, there was an all black 720p unit. Does anyone know if Samsung will be offering all black cases on any of their DLP models in 2005?

The shiny black model is to have something diferent to offer top-end stores and custom installers. I was told the only difference was the finish and the speakers. The width on the HLR 6768W is 62 1/4".

Originally posted by pjr
The shiny black model is to have something diferent to offer top-end stores and custom installers. I was told the only difference was the finish and the speakers. The width on the HLR 6768W is 62 1/4".

Thanks pjr! I've updated the spec's. The black lacquer case is an interesting idea.

I've added the following three questions to our list of open questions at the top of thread:

10. Can the 68 series or 88 series 1080p sets accept a 1080p signal via the HDMI input?

11. What computer resolutions are supported on the 1080p 68 and 88 series sets (1920x1080?)?

12. What is the capability of the 68/88 series 1080p sets to handle computer/video gaming?

It appears that there are three new 2005 bezel designs...

1.) A bezel similar to the old 2004 sets

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4942336&fullpage=1

2.) A shinny black lacquer bezel (for high end retailers?)

3.) A new "floating screen design"

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4955736&fullpage=1

Since networks broadcast in 720p or 1080i, how can one realize the full potential of these new units?

There has been some excellent information posted so far (thank you UCSB!). I've zipped all of my pics from the Samsung booth and TV Authority is in the process of updating our site with content. We plan to add all of new models with email notification options and you should begin seeing general product info available in our DLP TV section & CES page in the next day or two. I had a chance to meet a few members at the AVS party and even on my return flight to Seattle - it is always good to put a face with the member name! I'm still filtering through my notes and clearing my desk off but i'll try to post later if i see anything not already mentioned.

Thanks for the info Kirk. I have a 6197 ordered and was anxiously waiting to find out how things will be handled.

Sure thing. That was more of a place holder since there was no official pricing but we are updating with the new models numbers. I'll be sure to have Cambryn contact you today.

Originally posted by Bodine
Since networks broadcast in 720p or 1080i, how can one realize the full potential of these new units?

Here is how I expect to make full use of the 1080p capabilities:

1. I really enjoy movies and I am looking forward to the release of HD DVD’s. I will go to HD DVD’s when they are available and it is my hope that the 1080p monitors will be compatible with the new 1080p HD DVD’s. This really is my #1 requirement long-term.

2. The units will automatically display (convert) broadcast 720p and 1080i into 1080p. I’m hoping that the 1080i signals that are converted to 1080p will be more detailed than they have on my current 720p Samsung DLP.

3. I will be using the 1080p set with a HTPC. I have my movie library on my HTPC and the 1080p sets have enough resolution for people to browse my movie collection in detail … right on the monitor. Plus it will be interesting to see if browsing the net and other computer tasks will make more sense given the high resolution. At 720p, it makes more sense to simply use my notebook computer with its 1600x1200 screen. If you are looking for a way to catalog your movie collection, I can recommend (www.dvdprofiler.com) DVDprofiler.

4. I’m a photographer (hobby only) and I hope that the size of the screen and (1920x1080) resolution will make it practical to display my photos on the monitor. My current 720p system simply does not do a good enough job with photos. This seems like a fun idea. I’m not relying on this, but if it worked out then it would be a big plus. I’ll still do all my real photographic work on my hi res computer monitors.

I’m looking at this as a BIG purchase and I want it to be able support the new developments (especially HD DVD) over the next few years. I’d like to get several years of use out of the HDTV. Remember, people purchasing the tabletop models will be making their purchases in the second half of this year. I really wish that Samsung would (and maybe they will before these are released) guarantee 1080p HD DVD compatibility.

ADDED: Plus, who knows ... I expect we will be hearing about people running these things in split screen mode playing a video game in one window and watching football in the other. I haven't done the math, but you could probably run four SD shows in four windows at one time if it was offered.

Kirk,
Do you forsee any kind of a price drop on the HLP5674 with these new models coming out?

Jeez Bill, yer questions get tougher each round.
I'll take the last part first.

10. In 720p vs 1080p image comparison photos from the show, there was an all black 720p unit. Does anyone know if Samsung will be offering all black cases on any of their DLP models in 2005?

That sample 720p display was a non consumer model. It was all encased in a ginormo black case to disguise it. I wasnt even sure it was a samsung model until i asked a rep. Since this was the dog turd vs diamonds shootout, i dont think they wanted to put a consumer product they still mfg as the dog turd.

So that shiny bezel tv is not an indicator of a future model to come. It was just a method for them to disguise the tv.

BTW, great work Bill on putting this thread together.
K

How did the perceived contrast and color fidelity of the 67" 1080p model compare to the Qualia RPTV and the JVC 1080p 70"?

What is the cost of the stand for the Samsung 67"?

Has any other manufacturer announced a larger 1080p DLP?

What are the advantages and disadvantages of the 67" 1080p DLP to a 720p LCD front projector with the 80" Sony black screen?

Kyungkim ... thanks for the kind words and many great contributions to the thread. Yes, I agree ... the questions are getting tougher ... I guess that means we are making progress.

I just updated the data at the top of the thread to indicate that there MAY be a possible 1080p DLP chip upgrade between the 88 series and 68 series. I WANT TO EMPHASIS THAT ALL CHIP DATA IS CURRENTLY UNCONFIRMED.

UCSB, thanks for all of your work on this thread. One thing - for those who use the AVS white color setting (Members Area, Preferences) the white text is very hard to read. I'm not sure what color would be better and have changed my color setup to AVS black for the time being. Thanks again!

For those of you who care, I did talk to both Cambryn and Kirk of TVA today regarding the new sets. They are trying to figure everything out after CES and will be updating their site with the new models over the next few days. Kirk said he had some pictures that they would be posting. For those who have made preorders they will be contacting you to update your orders.

What will be most interesting to see is if Samsung really did learn their lesson this time and will pleasantly surprise us with their actual release dates instead of dissapoint like before.

Originally posted by UCSB
1. I really enjoy movies and I am looking forward to the release of HD DVD’s. I will go to HD DVD’s when they are available and it is my hope that the 1080p monitors will be compatible with the new 1080p HD DVD’s.
My understanding is that all of the 2005 batch of 1080p HDTV sets have 1080i input capability but not 1080p input capability.

I also have the impression that HD DVD players only output 1080i.

If I remember correctly, de-interlacing directly from 1080i to 1080p should give a very "true to the source" image unless a manufacturer de-interlaces 1080i to 520p instead of 1080p. I think scaling from 520p to 1080p would probably degrade the image.

Do these new DLP units have VGA or "PC" inputs like previous models?

Great work, UCSB!

Originally posted by Low Roller
Do these new DLP units have VGA or "PC" inputs like previous models?

Great work, UCSB!

That is a really great question! I will update the open questions at the top of the thread to include it.

Here is a short quote from the Samsung press release: "The 68 series offers the ultimate in device connectivity with two HDM inputs, two component inputs, two composite video & one S-Video."

HLR6168W (61”, JUN 2005, MSRP $4,499)

GIVE TO ME NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*falls over*

I literally started stamping on the floor like a little boy when I read about this..... god I want my 1080p 61" tabletop love NOW!!!!

- D

I have added the VGA / PC question into our list of open questions (it is open issue #13) --- here is where the open issues stand right now:

1. What is the PQ on the new 1080p models?

2. What TI DLP chips are used in the new models? TI and Samsung are not discussing chips, simply referring to 1080p chips and 720p chips. One press release from Optoma talked about a HD4 (720p) chip and therefore it is really tough to understand what is going on with these chips. When TI introduced the xHD3 (1080p) they claimed a 5000:1 contrast ratio, so it would seem they have a new chip since this has risen to 10000:1 now.

3. What are the depth measurements, and or dimensions, on the new models by model number? Even a couple of reference points would allow us to see the trend.

4. Which models will offer IEEE 1394 ports? What will be the capability of those ports? A news report from TWICE mentioned 1394, was it just in error? IEEE 1394 info was from www.twice.com (http://www.twice.com/article/CA491026.html).

5. What is the contrast ratio spec’s for the HLR5087W 720p pedestal model?

6. Confirm the number of HDMI inputs on the 67 series 720p models. Will there be 1 or 2 HDMI inputs?

7. Are these all of the planned models for 2005, or will Samsung be adding models later in the year? Last year they announced all of the 2004 models at CES.

8. Why aren’t there any 46” or 50” 1080p sets? I would really like to see a 50”. Many have commented that 1080p is not needed or wasted at these sizes, but that does not make sense to me as I sit here working on a small computer monitor with more resolution than a 1080p HDTV.

9. Which of the current models will be continuing? Specifically, what are the plans for the HLPxx74W, Tantus thin bezel models. Many planning to buy in 2005 might want to know the fate of this HD2+ unit.

10. Can the 68 series or 88 series 1080p sets accept a 1080p signal via the HDMI input? The general feeling is that the answer is NO ... but, did anyone ask this specific question?

11. What is the capability of the 68/88 series 1080p sets to handle computer/video gaming?

12. What computer resolutions are supported on the 1080p 68 and 88 series sets (1920x1080?)? How would this work through the HDMI connection (via DVI - HDMI cable?) See VGA / PC question below.

13. PRIORITY QUESTION: Is a VGA / PC connector going to be offered on any of the 2005 models?

Originally posted by Richard Paul
The person you spoke with definitely made that up. The HDCP license does not even mention resolution and certainly doesn't restrict it. Though it requires more expensive circuits for HDMI to accept 1080p there is no reason why it can't be done today. Basically the real reason we haven't seen a 1080p HDMI input is that none of the CE manufacturers bothered to order any most likely because of price.

Standard DVI can't do 1080p on a single link connection but HDMI can by using a reduced blanking interval of 5% (compared to just under 20% for DVI), which is part of the HDMI specification. Also the HDMI found on consumer electronics is single link though there is an HDMI specification for dual link. Since 1080p works fine on single link HDMI I would be surprised to see dual link HDMI inputs on HDTVs.

DVI 1.0 standard states that 1920X1080p at 60Hz is possible and 5% blanking is within spec.

www.ddwg.org

-Mr. Wigggles

There is a great discussion going on over in the Sony 1080p thread about this issue. Starting nine posts down from the top "Owen" does a good job of explaining all of this. Link: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4964800#post4964800

UCSB, TetsujinWave just started a new thread with pictures from CES. He has a picture of the display card for a hlr5078w. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=4964937&fullpage=1 There is no mention of this model in the Samsung press release. I know several people had mentioned this set but then confusion set in. Apparently it does exist, but it is unclear how it fits in.

WOW thanks schaffer970 ... TetsujinWave has some great PHOTOS, I'd encourage all to link over to the start of his thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=494251

What I want to know is what show was he at. There is nothing in the Samsung press releases about the 78 series, but there the pictures are. 70 inches????

The 70 inch placard also includes 1394 and Gemstar EPG along with the other standard features.

Also, the photos are of a 70" and 50" models with enhanced sound capabilities. They seem to define a new series called the 78 series.

OK ... with TetsujinWave's help maybe we can understand what we have here.

Just when you thought it was safe to go outside:) The fun continues. Who would have thought new models would show up at this point?

*curls into a ball and rocks gently back and forth, ocassionally looking at a piece of crumpled paper in his hand ... this paper contains scratchings ... not everything is legible ... we can make out "1080p", "10000:1", "61" Sammy" ... *

- D

Was there a predicted delivery date for the 70"er? Also, is it clear what features the 70 "er has over the HLR6768 (other than 3"in diag!)?

Did Samsung wait until Sunday to put them on the floor? Was the floor even open Sunday? Wild.

I was told the Samsungs would continue to have the PC connection (VGA), as well as two HDMI slots for the black lacquer models and one HDMI slot for the floating pedestal models.

HL-RXX78W--"black lacquer" models
HL-RXX68W--"floating pedestal" models

OK ... I have tentatively added the 78 series info to the top of this thread. Samsung if you are listening please let us know what is up ... at any rate this has added another open issue to our list. Current open issues are shown below.

1. What is the PQ on the new 1080p models?

2. What TI DLP chips are used in the new models? TI and Samsung are not discussing chips, simply referring to 1080p chips and 720p chips. One press release from Optoma talked about a HD4 (720p) chip and therefore it is really tough to understand what is going on with these chips. When TI introduced the xHD3 (1080p) they claimed a 5000:1 contrast ratio, so it would seem they have a new chip since this has risen to 10000:1 now.

3. What are the depth measurements, and or dimensions, on the new models by model number? Even a couple of reference points would allow us to see the trend.

4. Which models will offer IEEE 1394 ports? What will be the capability of those ports? A news report from TWICE mentioned 1394, was it just in error? IEEE 1394 info was from www.twice.com (http://www.twice.com/article/CA491026.html).

5. What is the contrast ratio spec’s for the HLR5087W 720p pedestal model?

6. Confirm the number of HDMI inputs on the 67 series 720p models. Will there be 1 or 2 HDMI inputs?

7. Are these all of the planned models for 2005, or will Samsung be adding models later in the year? Last year they announced all of the 2004 models at CES.

8. Why aren’t there any 46” or 50” 1080p sets? I would really like to see a 50”. Many have commented that 1080p is not needed or wasted at these sizes, but that does not make sense to me as I sit here working on a small computer monitor with more resolution than a 1080p HDTV.

9. Which of the current models will be continuing? Specifically, what are the plans for the HLPxx74W, Tantus thin bezel models. Many planning to buy in 2005 might want to know the fate of this HD2+ unit.

10. Can the 68 series or 88 series 1080p sets accept a 1080p signal via the HDMI input? The general feeling is that the answer is NO ... but, did anyone ask this specific question?

11. What is the capability of the 68/88 series 1080p sets to handle computer/video gaming?

12. What computer resolutions are supported on the 1080p 68 and 88 series sets (1920x1080?)? How would this work through the HDMI connection (via DVI - HDMI cable?) See VGA / PC question below.

13. PRIORITY QUESTION: Is a VGA / PC connector going to be offered on any of the 2005 models?

14. TOP PRIORITY QUESTION: Can anyone confirm that the 78 series 50" and 70" models are real production models?

Thanks TetsujinWave ... not only do you find the high-end product. You solve two nagging issues on inputs. Thanks. I'll update the top of the thread. Questions 6 and 13 have been closed. Moving in the right direction!

Kyungkim posted the 56" photo below when we just started gathering data ...

56" PHOTO (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=4942336&fullpage=1)

From my current understanding, it looks like a 56" version of a 78 series model. This would lead me to believe that there may be more models in the 78 series (maybe all of the 68 series sizes?). Kyungkim ... do you have the placecard that went with this unit?

Originally posted by TetsujinWave
I was told the Samsungs would continue to have the PC connection (VGA), as well as two HDMI slots for the black lacquer models and one HDMI slot for the floating pedestal models.

HL-RXX78W--"black lacquer" models
HL-RXX68W--"floating pedestal" models

Samsung's press release says that there are two HDMI inputs on the 68 series. But, I think that we have confirmed (I hope) that their is only one on the 67 series (which is a floating screen set).

Thanks for clearing up the "black lacquer" mystery.

Here is a photo of the placecard on a Sharp DLP ... Notice TI HD4 DLP chip line and 2000:1 contrast ratio. The new 67 series 720p Samsungs also spec out at 2000:1. It is probably safe to start thinking about HD4 chips in the 67 series.

PHOTO (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=4965245&fullpage=1)

Optoma claims to get 2500:1 out of the HD4, but they also claimed higher than anyone else numbers for the HD2, so it makes sense...

UCSB, you might want to add a question regarding the lag for game consoles. I don't expect to get an answer anytime soon, but this is a concern for a lot of people and I would think that Samsung might have addressed this issue somehow.

Sharp also displayed the XXDR650 series that used the HD3 chip. Cosmetically identical.

These articles do mention a 70 inch Samsung DLP set, but don't give any details:

http://news.designtechnica.com/article6238.html
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200501/200501060019.html

This article talks briefly about "TI's new 1080 chip" and wobulation... It also says "TI apparently has a new policy to just talk resolution and get away from dwelling on specific chip designations like HD2+, HD3, and so on." :rolleyes:

http://www.guidetohometheater.com/news/010705ces/

Does anyone have a better picture(s) of the HLR6768 than the one on the first page of this thread (the one that APEARS to have a very shiny screen)? Tx much!

Originally posted by millerwill
Does anyone have a better picture(s) of the HLR6768 than the one on the first page of this thread (the one that APEARS to have a very shiny screen)? Tx much!
This was just posted in that other thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4967117&fullpage=1

Thanks much! This is a GREAT looking item. If the MSRP really is $6000 (< half the price of the Sony 70' sxrd), and all the excellent PQ reports hold up, I think they are going to sell a ton of these.

As soon as anyone has dimensions (particularly depth and weight), etc., please let us hear (I have notice the total width of 62" that has been reported.) (Didn't any of you guys at the CES take your Stanley steel tape with you!?)

Added a link to the HLR6768W photo to the top of the thread. Updated the open issues question about video gaming question to ask specifically about lag.

=========================

Here are the open issues now:

1. What is the PQ on the new 1080p models?

2. What TI DLP chips are used in the new models? TI and Samsung are not discussing chips, simply referring to 1080p chips and 720p chips. One press release from Optoma talked about a HD4 (720p) chip and therefore it is really tough to understand what is going on with these chips. When TI introduced the xHD3 (1080p) they claimed a 5000:1 contrast ratio, so it would seem they have a new chip since this has risen to 10000:1 now.

3. What are the depth measurements, and or dimensions, on the new models by model number? Even a couple of reference points would allow us to see the trend.

4. Which models will offer IEEE 1394 ports? What will be the capability of those ports? A news report from TWICE mentioned 1394, was it just in error? IEEE 1394 info was from www.twice.com (http://www.twice.com/article/CA491026.html).

5. What is the contrast ratio spec’s for the HLR5087W 720p pedestal model?

6. Are these all of the planned models for 2005, or will Samsung be adding models later in the year? Last year they announced all of the 2004 models at CES.

7. Why aren’t there any 46” or 50” 1080p sets? I would really like to see a 50”. Many have commented that 1080p is not needed or wasted at these sizes, but that does not make sense to me as I sit here working on a small computer monitor with more resolution than a 1080p HDTV.

8. Which of the current models will be continuing? Specifically, what are the plans for the HLPxx74W, Tantus thin bezel models. Many planning to buy in 2005 might want to know the fate of this HD2+ unit.

9. Can the 68 series or 88 series 1080p sets accept a 1080p signal via the HDMI input? The general feeling is that the answer is NO ... but, did anyone ask this specific question?

10. What is the capability of the 68/88 series 1080p sets to handle computer/video gaming? Specifically, what is lag?

11. What computer resolutions are supported on the 1080p 68 and 88 series sets (1920x1080?)? How would this work through the HDMI connection (via DVI - HDMI cable?) Specifically, does it support 1920x1080. See VGA / PC question below.

12. TOP PRIORITY QUESTION: Can anyone confirm that the 78 series 50" and 70" models are real production models?

UCSB: Please add the question of WEIGHT of the HLR6768 to your list.

Originally posted by millerwill
UCSB: Please add the question of WEIGHT of the HLR6768 to your list.

OK ... done. On the 67 series we know the weight range is going to be from 70 lbs - 120 lbs. It is probably a good indicator for the other models give or take a few pounds.

========

Open issues:

1. What is the PQ on the new 1080p models?

2. What TI DLP chips are used in the new models? TI and Samsung are not discussing chips, simply referring to 1080p chips and 720p chips. One press release from Optoma talked about a HD4 (720p) chip and therefore it is really tough to understand what is going on with these chips. When TI introduced the xHD3 (1080p) they claimed a 5000:1 contrast ratio, so it would seem they have a new chip since this has risen to 10000:1 now.

3. What are the DEPTH measurements, dimensions, and weight on the new models by model number? Even a couple of reference points would allow us to see the trend.

4. Which models will offer IEEE 1394 ports? What will be the capability of those ports? A news report from TWICE mentioned 1394, was it just in error? IEEE 1394 info was from www.twice.com (http://www.twice.com/article/CA491026.html).

5. What is the contrast ratio spec’s for the HLR5087W 720p pedestal model?

6. Are these all of the planned models for 2005, or will Samsung be adding models later in the year? Last year they announced all of the 2004 models at CES.

7. Why aren’t there any 46” or 50” 1080p sets? I would really like to see a 50”. Many have commented that 1080p is not needed or wasted at these sizes, but that does not make sense to me as I sit here working on a small computer monitor with more resolution than a 1080p HDTV.

8. Which of the current models will be continuing? Specifically, what are the plans for the HLPxx74W, Tantus thin bezel models. Many planning to buy in 2005 might want to know the fate of this HD2+ unit.

9. Can the 68 series or 88 series 1080p sets accept a 1080p signal via the HDMI input? The general feeling is that the answer is NO ... but, did anyone ask this specific question?

10. What is the capability of the 68/88 series 1080p sets to handle computer/video gaming? Specifically, what is lag?

11. What computer resolutions are supported on the 1080p 68 and 88 series sets (1920x1080?)? How would this work through the HDMI connection (via DVI - HDMI cable?) Specifically, does it support 1920x1080. See VGA / PC question below.

12. TOP PRIORITY QUESTION: Can anyone confirm that the 78 series 50" and 70" models are real production models?

Bill,

In your first post, you can add the HLR5678W and the HLR6178W to the 78 Series.

TetsujinWave has confirmed it with these pics:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4966348&fullpage=1

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4966899&fullpage=1

Originally posted by Administrator
Bill,

In your first post, you can add the HLR5678W and the HLR6178W to the 78 Series.

TetsujinWave has confirmed it with these pics:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4966348&fullpage=1

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4966899&fullpage=1

This brings us to a point that I have been thinking about since yesterday. I really think the 78 series is a real production series. It will be sold in higher-end retailers, like Magnolia, here is CA. The 68 / 67 series will probably be sold in Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. type of stores. Who knows, now that they have the 1080p units, the 67 series might even show up at Costco. Those that have been following the Samsung DLP products for awhile will remember the two cabinets offered in the HLN line. One was all silver (Best Buy) and the other had a nice dark grey / black bezel (Magnolia). Internals were the same.

So I need to make a decision that hopefully everyone can help me with: Do I just add 50", 56", 61", 67", 70" models into the 78 line, punch in the same June dates and essentially go with the concept that these are internally the same as the 68 series, just a cosmetic version for another retail channel? If I did this, the 78 series would become our new top-of-the-line.

Also, I’m still not sure that Samsung is not going to slip the IEEE 1394 input/output of the 70” into the entire series. Plus what about the electronic program guide? Also, I am still not sure that the 70” is a production unit. Any ideas on whether there will be a difference in price between the 68 and 78 series?

Everyone please ADVISE! … then I will update the data at the top of the thread.

Originally posted by UCSB
Everyone please ADVISE! … then I will update the data at the top of the thread.
Even the stuff that seems confirmed can change. That seems to be a Samsung thing.

I would put a big notice at the top that everything is subject to change. Then I would flag anything that is a projection of the probable.

Then I would prepare for endless questions as reality unfolds this year. :rolleyes:

UCSB, I think htwaits is right, go ahead and put everything in with a caveat that this is info gleaned from many sources and anything and everything is subject to change. Can't say thank you enough for all the work you have done in keeping the information organized. I'm not sure, but I think at this point you know more about the 2005 Samsung DLP lineup than Samsung does:)

I agree--htwaits has the best idea. This is a trade show; really none of it is concrete. Last year the xHD3 set was supposed to debut in September.

You see how that went.

It is what it is, a glimpse at two possible 1080p DLP lines from Samsung.

UCSB: I thought the 67" model was only in the xx68 series ('floating screen' cabinet). There isn't a 6778 ('black lacquer' cabinet) is there?

millerwill is correct. The 67" was shown only in the 68 "floating screen" design, and the 70" and 50" 1080p Samsungs were only shown in the 78 "black lacquer" design.

Originally posted by TetsujinWave
millerwill is correct. The 67" was shown only in the 68 "floating screen" design, and the 70" and 50" 1080p Samsungs were only shown in the 78 "black lacquer" design.

OK ... I will add a note that the 67 was not shown.

Bill,

Here are some pictures that you could add to the main post for the 78 Series:

78 Series Info (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4966628&fullpage=1)
HLR5678W Photo #2 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4966442&fullpage=1)
HLR5678W Photo #3 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4942336&fullpage=1)
HLR5678W Placecard (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4966421&fullpage=1)
HLR7078W Photo #3 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4965032&fullpage=1)
HLR7078W Photo #4 (http://www.audioholics.com/news/uploads/DSC02153_lg.jpg)
70 Inch Info (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4965010&fullpage=1)

Wait wait wait..... VGA for computer?

That's disgusting. Seriously DVI is the way to go for computers, and and everything in between... So the word is there's no DVI at all on the new Sammy's?

- D

Bill,

Here are some pictures that you could add to the main post for the 68 Series:

68 Series Info (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4966678&fullpage=1)
Floating Screen Close-up (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4955704&fullpage=1) - Could add this in the 67 Series pics too?
HLR5668W Photo #1 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4966499&fullpage=1)
HLR5668W Photo #2 (http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/util_get_image/8/0,1311,sz=1&i=88151,00.jpg)
HLR5668W Placecard (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4966522&fullpage=1)
HLR6168W Photo #2 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4966758&fullpage=1)

Originally posted by Administrator
Bill,

Here are some pictures that you could add to the main post for the 68 Series:

Floating Screen Display Info (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4966678&fullpage=1) - Could add this in the 67 Series pics too?
Floating Screen Close-up (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4955704&fullpage=1) - Could add this in the 67 Series pics too?
HLR5668W Photo #1 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4966499&fullpage=1)
HLR5668W Photo #2 (http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/util_get_image/8/0,1311,sz=1&i=88151,00.jpg)
HLR5668W Placecard (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4966522&fullpage=1)
HLR6168W Photo #2 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4966758&fullpage=1)

I will add these photos ... but, first we need to sort through a couple of issues or I am going to cause some serious confusion.

In the list of photos above and this list. The posters show two things that require some discussion.

First, they are showing TV Guide as the on screen program guide. Does anyone know what models are going to support this? All of them?

Second, the poster in this group of photos show IEEE 1394. Same issue ... what models. I need a little education here at this point. What are the details on AnyNet? It is not 1394, right?

I really need to understand these posters before I associate them with specific models. HELP.

I just noticed that on both of these pics, it says IEEE 1394 - So hopefully the 68 and 78 Series will support IEEE 1394.

68 Series Info (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4966678&fullpage=1)
78 Series Info (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4966628&fullpage=1)

Bill,

The link I called "Floating Screen Display Info" was really the "68 Series Info".

I have corrected my original post.

I believe the "68 Series Info" pic applies to the entire 68 Series, and the "78 Series Info" pic applies to the entire 78 Series.

Originally posted by Daphoid
Wait wait wait..... VGA for computer?

That's disgusting. Seriously DVI is the way to go for computers, and and everything in between... So the word is there's no DVI at all on the new Sammy's?

- D

One or two HDMI and a VGA/PC input. We are trying to sort through whether a DVI-to-HDMI cable would work and at what resolutions.

Originally posted by Administrator
Bill,

The link I called "Floating Screen Display Info" was really the "68 Series Info".

I have corrected my original post.

I believe the "68 Series Info" pic applies to the entire 68 Series, and the "78 Series Info" pic applies to the entire 78 Series.

I would like to hold off for a few hours and hope we get some comments on: 1) TV Guide program guide; 2) IEEE 1394; 3) AnyNet.

My expectations at this point. It would not surprise me if TV Guide was offered on ALL models. It would not surprise me if IEEE1394 was offered on 78 series (maybe 68 series and 88 series). Finally, I just need to be educated on AnyNet.

Thanks for finding the photos ... I'll add them on the next revision.

And one thinks that the 'innards' of the xx68 and xx78 will be identical, only the cabinet different?

Also, it looks like the HLR6168 and 6768 have a 'stand' added to the base (which the smaller xx68's do not have), very much like the present hlp 6163. And I assume that (just like the hlp6163) one can remove it.

Originally posted by UCSB
Finally, I just need to be educated on AnyNet.
From my understanding, AnyNet is available on all the new sets. It is talked about in the Samsung press release:
http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/PressRelease/PressRelease.asp?seq=20050106_0000090605

Back in September 2004 was when we first heard about AnyNet. Steve Panosian mentioned it in an e-mail to me. Here is the post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4403958#post4403958

After re-reading Steve Panosian's reply to my e-mail back in September 2004, I noticed this:

"2) We will transition this series to a new design mid year that will include the integrated design. So, no 77 series will come.. it'll be called something a little different but it will be a "70" series."

I guess we can assume this is the 78 Series...right?

Here's my e-mail to him and his reply from September 2004:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4403958#post4403958

The only place I saw a 70" Samsung was on Thursday at the TI booth. The next day the sign had been changed to 67". My guess the 70" sign might have been a mistake. Yes, I did use a tape measure on the 67" and as stated it was 62 1/4" wide. I have about one inch to spare. Iwas told the difference between 68 and 78 was the shiny bezel and the speakers, but no internal difference.

Has anyone confirmed that the people talking about the 70" were not just sloppy estimates of the 67" model?

omg the 67" is 62 1/4" wide (I'm assuming you mean from left to right) and are you referring to the screen or the unit?

If the unit, then omg it'll fit in my spot!! I'll have like 1/8th of an inch on either side, but DAMNIT it'll fit!

- CG

Wait, is Daphoid excited?

;)

Me? Excited? Never! *grins*

I just want to get all these models straight...

I'm thinking of either the 61" or 67" 1080p model, tabletop, and it must have that glorious 10000:1 contrast ratio.

- D

I think there is a line forming for who is the most excited. :)

It's too bad that Samsung is not monitoring this forum and helping to fill in the blanks. A little bit of help for their most ardent supporters would go a long way when it comes to marketing these sets. Word of mouth advertising goes a long ways and it costs nothing.

Originally posted by Daphoid
omg the 67" is 62 1/4" wide (I'm assuming you mean from left to right) and are you referring to the screen or the unit?

If the unit, then omg it'll fit in my spot!! I'll have like 1/8th of an inch on either side, but DAMNIT it'll fit!

- CG

Yes, this must be the total width of the set; the screen width is 58.4" [67"x16/sqrt(337)].

well if I recall the 61 is 42" tall, so assuming you'd add equal amount.... (the width of the 61's being 56 approx) so say.... 40+8 = 48" tall....

hmmmm that'd fit PERFECTLY (no joking) into the hole in my wall.

- CG

The screen ht of the 67" set is only ~3" more than that of the 61" one [6"x9/sqrt(337)]. So if the borders and bottom speaker section of the two is about the same, the ht of the 67" set will be only 3" more than the 61". So you are in business!

I have been reading this all week. Looking to upgrade and would love to get ahold of a 67 inch 1080p sam dlp. But and still curious about the chip they are using and will it be a true 1080p.

Dont mean to rain on anyones parade.

Ok Samsung, hurry your butt up and write us some specs pages!

*holds his measuring tape*

- D

With Samsung saying that the 5688 should be out sometime in February (7 weeks???), you would have thought they would have stuff up on their website as soon as they made the announcement. Do they think about these things ahead of time? I would think that Samsung would want to piggy-back on the hype that CES generated. But then I'm not a marketing type, so what do I know.

My understanding from TI and Samsung reps at CES was the contrast ratio is 5,000:1

The 10,000:1 ratio was approved as a spec for Korea, and it is expected that the ratio is to be 5,000:1 in the U.S.. Apparently there are different ways to measure contrast ratio, some manufacturers choose not to list it as it's misleading. Take a look at the TV and decide for yourself.

TI has also improved algorithms for their DLP chipset which is said to have improved the image substantially, and by looking at their demo display it's an amazing picture. These enhancements have been made available to manufacturers to implement as they choose, and is likely what people are noticing in these new 1080p displays that were showcased.

Was searching around for information about DLP chips and came across this description of wobulation that I thought was interesting:

Wobu-what?

"Wobulation is one of the main reasons HP has made the pronouncement about wanting to be No. 1," says Allen. "This technology has the potential to change the way people build projectors. The first time I simulated wobulation in the lab, I just kept thinking, 'Wow. I can't believe what I'm seeing.'"

What Allen was simulating, according to an HP white paper, was the rapid shifting of subframes of data in a sequence that significantly improves picture resolution without increasing the number of pixels in the projector's spatial light modulator (in this case, the Digital Micromirror Device [DMD] in a DLP-based projector). According to HP, wobulation will, in theory, let manufacturers significantly increase a projector's resolution using an imbedded technology or firmware, rather than physically changing the imaging device, thereby saving substantial costs. For example, a native VGA-resolution (640 x 480 pixels) DMD could be manufactured to project SXGA-resolution (1,280 x 1,024 pixels) content without degradation, HP contends.

To accomplish this, wobulation borrows tricks from the inkjet-printer industry, in which a higher dots-per-inch resolution (dpi) is simulated to increase a picture's detail and richness, something often referred to as dithering or as optimized dpi.

In printing, it was found that native 1,200-dpi output actually looked worse than simulated 600-dpi output, Allen continues. "That's similar to what we believe wobulation will prove in projection." In other words, Allen says, a wobulation-enabled projector will, in theory, produce higher-quality images than a regular digital projector that has much greater resolution.

Allen touts wobulation as a breakthrough technology, saying that it will bring down costs for projector manufacturers as well as buyers, and it will allow for a smoother transition into high-definition projection. Though HP execs could not give a live demonstration of wobulation, only a simulation in PowerPoint, Allen says HP has applied for more than 10 patents relating to the technology, and claims that products using wobulation will be available in mid or late 2005.

There is also mention of what is called Big Yellow regarding the color wheel. Has anyone heard of Big Yellow?

Later in the day, HP scientists demonstrate a projection feature called Big Yellow that makes the yellow tones from DLP engines more color-accurate, yellow being the most difficult for DLP to reproduce. HP's work with Texas Instruments, which developed DLP technology and makes the DLP engine, led to Big Yellow, which will soon be available to other projector manufacturers as well.

Both of these quotes are from the follwoing article :
Does HP have the bright stuff? (http://www.presentations.com/presentations/technology/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000729994)

OK ... I have updated the spec's at the top of the thread.

I added TV Guide electronic program guide to all models. The TV Guide is confirmed in the 68/78 series (based on the 68 and 78 series posters) and unconfirmed in all of the other series. My own opinion is all the models will have this feature.

I added IEEE 1394 DTV Link to the 68/78 series based on the data on the 68 and 78 series posters.

I've included links next to the TV Guide and IEEE 1394 specs that take you to the source of this info (the poster). Add it to the 88 series as unconfirmed.

If you haven't looked at the spec's at the top of the thread for a while, you might want to take another look. It is pretty amazing how it has come together over the past day or so.

Also, added all of the photo links ... keep providing links to good photos, it is really helpful. Didn't anyone take any shots of the pedestal models ... I know they probably will look like existing models, but I'm sure they would be of interest.

Based on Administrators comments above, I closed out the question about the fate of the HD2+ HLPxx74W models.

=========================

9. Which of the current models will be continuing? Specifically, what are the plans for the HLPxx74W, Tantus thin bezel models. Many planning to buy in 2005 might want to know the fate of this HD2+ unit.

It looks like the 78 Series is slated to replace the HLPxx74W line --- this makes sense to me!

Comments by Administrator (AVS Member)

After re-reading Steve Panosian's reply to my e-mail back in September 2004, I noticed this:

"2) We will transition this series to a new design mid year that will include the integrated design. So, no 77 series will come.. it'll be called something a little different but it will be a "70" series."

I guess we can assume this is the 78 Series...right?

Here's my e-mail to him and his reply from September 2004:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...958#post4403958

Did anyone see if any of these models preserve the center channel speaker stand of the 74 series?

I hope Samsung shows off a few of these new models at NYC's Hi-Fi Show in May 2005.

Sammy had a large room for themselves last year so I'm hoping for the same this year.

The specs are looking real good now.

Originally posted by stepmback
... and still curious about the chip they are using and will it be a true 1080p.
The chip will wobble two pixels from each mirror and the pixels will line up 1920 wide and 1080 deep. That's it for now in the DLP world -- 1080p.

Originally posted by aranganath
Did anyone see if any of these models preserve the center channel speaker stand of the 74 series?

I'll add this question to our open issues list.

I closed out the open issue below:

6. Are these all of the planned models for 2005, or will Samsung be adding models later in the year? Last year they announced all of the 2004 models at CES.

The number of models we have documented looks impressive. In addition, the technical content is high. It certainly looks like the full 2005 plan to me. This question was added to our open issues list early in the process when our model count was pretty low.

I closed out the open issue below:

6. Why aren’t there any 46” or 50” 1080p sets?

We have since uncovered the HLR5078W. It is well documented in photos and we have a photo of the placecard at the show. I really hope this is a production unit.

Our current open issues are shown below ... please check your notes from the show and see if you can answer any of them.

=========================

1. What is the PQ on the new 1080p models?

2. What TI DLP chips are used in the new models? TI and Samsung are not discussing chips, simply referring to 1080p chips and 720p chips. One press release from Optoma talked about a HD4 (720p) chip and therefore it is really tough to understand what is going on with these chips. When TI introduced the xHD3 (1080p) they claimed a 5000:1 contrast ratio, so it would seem they have a new chip since this has risen to 10000:1 now.

3. What are the DEPTH measurements, dimensions, and weight on the new models by model number? Even a couple of reference points would allow us to see the trend.

4. Will a IEEE1394 input/output be offered on the 67 or 87 series units?

5. What is the contrast ratio spec’s for the HLR5087W 720p pedestal model? If they had one on display, did anyone notice if the pixel pattern was HD2+ or newer HD4 pattern?

6. Can the 68 series or 88 series 1080p sets accept a 1080p signal via the HDMI input? The general feeling is that the answer is NO ... but, did anyone ask this specific question?

7. What is the capability of the 68/88 series 1080p sets to handle computer/video gaming? Specifically, what is lag?

8. What computer resolutions are supported on the 68, 78, and 88 series sets (1920x1080?)? How would this work through the HDMI connection (via DVI - HDMI cable?) Specifically, does it support 1920x1080. Since we THINK that we have confirmed that the 68, 78, and 88 will have VGA/PC input, what resolutions will be supported via this input?

9. Is there a center channel speaker shelf on the 67, 68, or 78 series cabinets?

10. TOP PRIORITY QUESTION: Can anyone confirm that the 78 series 50" and 70" models are real production models?

I think we have gathered enough info in this thread and others to make some really educated guesses about the DLP chips in these units! I am wondering if anyone else feels this area is starting to come together in their thinking? Please post your thoughts.

I think the answer to question number 9 is no. Aesthetically, both the black lacquer design and the floating screen are like the present tabletop models. Check out this picture and judge for yourself. The 50" 720p Samsung is in this picture, and from the angle there appears to not be room for a center channel speaker.

Questions (that may have been answered on the first 7 pages):

1.) Did anyone ask the reps about lip sync issues that plagued previous models?

2.) Is there any dithering or delay response for PC/Xbox gaming?

3.) Do I have to use the native resolution for gaming (1080p) like most LCDs require for best picture? The reason I ask is that for PC games 1280x720 has playable frame rates using most video cards, but playing at 1980x1080 will require the best video cards, and may still have a significant drop in frame rates.

4.) It sound like this is not a true 1080p since they are using 2 pixels per mirror. Are they upconverting 1080i and other signals to 1080p. HDMI is restricted to 1080i right?

5.) Why have the new 74 series models gone back to 6 segment color wheels, but these CES models are now back to 7? Is it due to the pixel to mirror ratios similar to that found in the HD3 vs HD2+ chips?

6.) I was going to get a 74 model. How much longer would I have to wait if I wanted to compare it to the first of these new models?

Since you're a fellow Durhamite, I'll try to answer some of your questions. ;)

1. I didn't ask them about it.

2. There wasn't really a chance to test this ("Can I hook my Xbox up to your 1080p DLP's?" probably wouldn't have gone over too well). They had some computer applications running on one of the 1080p DLPs, and the desktop was sharp. Some say they could see the diamond pattern briefly, but I did not. In the TI booth they had SSX 3 running on one of the front projectors without issue--that does not, of course, mean the same is true of the RPTV's.

3. It can most likely upconvert 720p without too many problems, although if you could run 1920x1080, it would probably be best.

4. Don't get hung up on this "true 1080p" thing. The 1080p DLP's looked fantastic--and were one of the hits of the show. They looked better than the LCD 1080p offerings, and as good as the 1080p D-ILA (I give a slight edge to the D-ILA). The Qualia SXRD still trumps everything in the PQ department. If you have the means, that's the set you should buy.

5. These are wobulation (xHDy) chips, so two pixels per mirror. Again, the PQ speaks for itself. They do have larger, seven segment color wheels.

6. They should be out in June or July, according to the reps.

Thanks for all the answers TetsujinWave!

1. I didn't ask them about it.
- Too bad. I hope someone here asked.

3. It can most likely upconvert 720p without too many problems, although if you could run 1920x1080, it would probably be best.
- I may be better off with a true 720p TV then. Frame rates are important to online gaming.

4. Don't get hung up on this "true 1080p" thing. The 1080p DLP's looked fantastic--and were one of the hits of the show.
- Other than contrast/brightness how big of a difference was there between a 720p Samsung and a 1080p one...and what was the source?

5. These are wobulation (xHDy) chips, so two pixels per mirror. Again, the PQ speaks for itself. They do have larger, seven segment color wheels.
- But why go back to a 6seg wheel for the 74 models? Does anyone know?

6. They should be out in June or July, according to the reps.
- Nothing sooner than June. Crap, I can't wait that long. What about the DiLA model? :rolleyes:

Thanks TetsujinWave for posting these new 67 Series photos!

Bill, please add these pics to the main post:

HLR4667W Photo #1 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4972979&fullpage=1)
HLR4667W Photo #2 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4973025&fullpage=1)
HLR4667W Placecard (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4972995&fullpage=1)

Originally posted by MaxC
- But why go back to a 6seg wheel for the 74 models? Does anyone know?
Samsung didn't go back at all. The "74" models are improved versions of the HLN467 and HLN567 Tantus sets. Since they used the same light engine they also used the same color wheel. The main difference was dropping the HD2+ chip in to upgrade the HD2 chip used in the HLN sets. Some might call is a stop gap measure.

MaxC:

Before I go on, this is pure speculation on my part.

I believe that Samsung is moving away from the HD2+. There were no HD2+ models at Samsungs area (too large to really call it a "booth"), thin bezel or otherwise. Samsung, TI, and LG and seem to be pushing the 1080p DLP RPTV market for the future. They even had a "One chip is better than three" section of TI's demo where they put their one chip colorwheel design against a most horribly misaligned three chip solution. While I disagree with that, it seems that TI is far away from pushing 3-chip DLP RPTV consumer solutions.

Correction--there may have been a Kirk there somewhere. If so, it was the only case of an HD2+. It wasn't on the "DLP row" of the Samsung area.

Ok--take that for what little it's worth.

The 1080p models PQ is noticeably better than the 720p models. Enough so for me to wait until June. This was why I didn't really want to compare the 720p D-ILA and the 1080p D-ILA PQ for Kid Red. It's not a fair comparison. I believe the source was D-VHS, but on the 50" 1080p they were feeding it an upconverted "I, Robot" DVD from the Samsung DVD-HD950. A real disservice, IMHO.

The only thing they would say about the 1080p D-ILA is "In the fall." Whatever that means.

Daphoid wrote:

"I literally started stamping on the floor like a little boy when I read about this..... god I want my 1080p 61" tabletop love NOW!!!!"

I think he gets like this with every model introduction... He must have about 10 TVs in his house because he is always saying he wants to powerbuy the next latest and greatest model.

PS - I think the 720p model that was all in that laquer-black case was a thinly disguised swipe at the Mitsubishi Diamond series DLP TVs.

I tried to confirm some of this info by calling Samsung in Korea and I got some VP on the line but he started yelling at me in Korean and then hung-up on me. Maybe "wobulate" is a dirty word in Korean.

Originally posted by htwaits
Samsung didn't go back at all. The "74" models are improved versions of the HLN467 and HLN567 Tantus sets. Since they used the same light engine they also used the same color wheel. The main difference was dropping the HD2+ chip in to upgrade the HD2 chip used in the HLN sets. Some might call is a stop gap measure.

The HD3 HLPs all have 7segment wheels and so does the current Kirk model which has a HD2+ chip. So why go back to a 6 segment wheel?

Originally posted by htwaits
Samsung didn't go back at all. The "74" models are improved versions of the HLN467 and HLN567 Tantus sets. Since they used the same light engine they also used the same color wheel. The main difference was dropping the HD2+ chip in to upgrade the HD2 chip used in the HLN sets. Some might call is a stop gap measure.

The HD3 HLPs all have 7segment wheels and so does the current Kirk model which has a HD2+ chip. So why go back to a 6 segment wheel?

Originally posted by MaxC
The HD3 HLPs all have 7segment wheels and so does the current Kirk model which has a HD2+ chip. So why go back to a 6 segment wheel?
As htwaits said, the 74 Series is an upgraded HLN467W and HLN567W.

They took an old HLN set and added an HD2+ chip and upgraded the light engine a little, as well as some other internals.

I think one of the reasons they went with the 6 segment color wheel was to cut costs - Plus it worked well with that hybrid light engine that they're using in the 74 Series.

The result was a picture very close to the 85 Series for less cost.

6. Can the 68 series or 88 series 1080p sets accept a 1080p signal via the HDMI input? The general feeling is that the answer is NO ... but, did anyone ask this specific question?

Yes I asked this specifically and got the reply that it does not, due to hdcp requirements. This has been pointed out to be bubkus, hdcp does not limit rez.

I asked this question at a number of mfg planning 1080p sets and the most telling came from sony. They said they do not support 1080p (in) since no consumer device is capable of outputing a true 1080p signal. Even the blu ray players sold in japan only output 1080i.

So im not holding my breadth on the digital side of the 1080p input on this generation, i dont think they will be capable of it. Im 99.99 percent positive the hdmi ports will not support 1080p from talking to the reps.

Im holding out against hope that the vga input hasnt been crippled. I know everyone wants digital, but rgb has been the way that g90 projectors have been fed with 1080p for years, so im sure it wont be so awful.

K

I added some more photos, fixed a broken link, and changed some of the text to reflect our current understanding of the situation. Thanks Administrator for the photo links and suggestions.

I think we have enough information to tie down the DLP chips in most of the models. If anyone else has any opinions on this topic, please your share your ideas. I hope to write up my thoughts in a couple of hours on this issue.

Originally posted by kyungkim
Yes I asked this specifically and got the reply that it does not, due to hdcp requirements. This has been pointed out to be bubkus, hdcp does not limit rez.

I asked this question at a number of mfg planning 1080p sets and the most telling came from sony. They said they do not support 1080p (in) since no consumer device is capable of outputing a true 1080p signal. Even the blu ray players sold in japan only output 1080i.

So im not holding my breadth on the digital side of the 1080p input on this generation, i dont think they will be capable of it. Im 99.99 percent positive the hdmi ports will not support 1080p from talking to the reps.

Im holding out against hope that the vga input hasnt been crippled. I know everyone wants digital, but rgb has been the way that g90 projectors have been fed with 1080p for years, so im sure it wont be so awful.

K

Thanks Kyungkim ... your comments with those of htwaits, give me enough to write this up and close out that open issue. I've got a few things I have to do, but I'll write it up early this afternoon and update the top of the thread.

Thanks.

Originally posted by Administrator
I think one of the reasons they went with the 6 segment color wheel was to cut costs - Plus it worked well with that hybrid light engine that they're using in the 74 Series.
Similar to those manufacturers who are converting digital input to analog for internal processing, it allows them to use existing technology and make more money sooner. ;)

Samsung seems to have done a good job on the "74" models but they are a dead end. Wobble On!

Been following this thread since the beginning...great work Bill.

It looks like there are a few new chips now (or at least new iterations of exisiting chips), but I'm not clear how the chips compare. So now that we have some educated guesses on what chips are being used in each model (HD3, xHD3, xHD4...), how about somebody taking a swipe at comparing all of the available chips with respect to design, application, size, resolution, etc.? Maybe a table could be put together and added to the first post comparing all the chips.
Chris

Regarding the chip - what about this "Big Yellow" color wheel thinga-ma-bob? I'd assume that it would be incorporated with these new sets. Looks like once TI partnered with HP, things really started wobulating (ha ha - that's a joke). Carly Fiorina wants engineers to make her bed wobulate. (ha ha - that's another joke).

We have an open issue about what DLP chips are in these new models. It seems that TI (Texas Instruments) and the HDTV vendors have gotten together and decided not to talk about chips, but rather talk about 720p chips and 1080p chips. I can understand this desire on their part. With models coming out at different times during the year, everyone can’t have the latest chip and a lot of other things go into the design of these HDTV’s (firmware, optics, electronics, screens, etc.) beyond the chips. Part of me says that we should just respect their wishes. But, then part of me says … wait, for most of us these are expensive purchases. We have a right to be informed about what we are buying. Could you imagine if Intel decided we are just going to refer to CPU’s by their type, Pentium 4’s for example.

We have gathered a lot of spec’s at CES 2005 and those spec’s are clearly documented in the posters, product display cards, and press releases that we have been accumulating. I think some clear patterns have emerged.

It seems to me that Samsung and TI cooperate closely on the introduction of HDTV’s and DLP chips. This is to be expected (I thought I saw a press release saying Samsung had 69% or the DLP market). Samsung has stated they are using, or will be using TI’s latest chips. So here is my take by model line.

Series 68, 78 – TI xHD4. I don’t know if this is the designation they are using internally, but this is the next 1080p chip after the xHD3 shown initially at CES 2004. When the 68 / 78 product arrives it will be mid 2005. Clearly at least one model year removed from the 2004 chip we saw last year. The xHD3 had a contrast ratio of 5000:1, these new chips are claiming 10,000:1. In addition, there was a Zeiss Optics pdf document that talked about compability with the xHD4 chip.

Series 88 – TI xHD3. This 1080p pedestal HDTV was slated for introduction last November with xHD3. It’s lower 5000:1 contrast ratio, 2004 develop time table, and early introduction (FEB 2005) led me to believe that it is based on the xHD3.

Series 67 – TI HD4. A couple of vendors, Sharp and Optoma, created product display cards stating that they are using the HD4. So we know this is the latest 720p chip. In addition, Samsung is claiming a 2000:1 contrast ratio … just the same as in the Sharp HD4 720p HDTV. Optoma claimed 2500:1.

Series 87 – TI HD2+ or HD4. We do not have a single picture, product display card, press release spec … or really anything on this HDTV. My guess is that they just left the HD2+ chip in the unit (ie used current HLP5085W as base).

So I have a small dilemma, should we just go along with TI’s wishes and call these chips 720p and 1080p chips on our spec page or should attempt to list actual chips. If we decide to list actual chips should we just put the data above in or should we list all of the possible options.

Originally posted by UCSB
So I have a small dilemma, should we just go along with TI’s wishes and call these chips 720p and 1080p chips on our spec page or should attempt to list actual chips. If we decide to list actual chips should we just put the data above in or should we list all of the possible options.
I would list actual chips. I would use the data above but just put a "?" after it because we are not 100% sure yet... However, your conclusions about which chip is in each set sounds good.

UCSB, I agree with Administrator. At least for me the chip designation is worthy of note.

Now if you could just move those release dates up some and Samsung would pay attention :)

I’d like to thank everyone for their assistance with this thread, but especially TetsujinWave and Kyungkim for their great photo journalism and commentary. It is scary to think about what we would know without their outstanding work. Thanks.

Originally posted by Snooptonydog
Daphoid wrote:

"I literally started stamping on the floor like a little boy when I read about this..... god I want my 1080p 61" tabletop love NOW!!!!"

I think he gets like this with every model introduction... He must have about 10 TVs in his house because he is always saying he wants to powerbuy the next latest and greatest model.

PS - I think the 720p model that was all in that laquer-black case was a thinly disguised swipe at the Mitsubishi Diamond series DLP TVs.

I tried to confirm some of this info by calling Samsung in Korea and I got some VP on the line but he started yelling at me in Korean and then hung-up on me. Maybe "wobulate" is a dirty word in Korean.

LOL! No no, I only have my 24" Sony Wega....

I was originally planning on the HLP's, but then decided that because I wouldn't have the money for ANY TV period, until May 2005, that I'd go with the 61" 1080p model... Upon playing with my measuring tape, the 67" fills the space just a little more, which is always nice. I may go with the 61" though depending on final pricings... Because it's the exact same sit, just 6" more screen realestate, is it really worth the extra money?

We shall wait and see.

- D

UCSB I would agree with Admin and put the tentative chips out there I'd say it's pretty safe to assume that from sources somewhere we will be able to get some sort of solid chip name in those slots as time goes on between now and Midyear/February. All I have to say is that it sounds like the 7078 makes all my dreams come true. Except well....Do you have to feed your children all the time? That price is going to make my wallet wake up in the middle of the the night screaming. I think I may end up waiting for that TV to com out and drop significantly in price before plunging. Either that or I'll get the next size down. It depends on how bad the cravings get once the new Family Room is built.

I just moved the question below from our open issues area to the closed (or more appropriately probably closed area) at the top of the thread. I also added the following lines to the spec's on the 68, 78, 88 series.

> HDMI Digital Resolutions Supported: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i (1080p not likely)


=======================

10. Can the 68 series or 88 series 1080p sets accept a 1080p signal via the HDMI input? The general feeling is that the answer is NO ... but, did anyone ask this specific question?

Comments By HTwaits (AVS Member)

My understanding is that all of the 2005 batch of 1080p HDTV sets have 1080i input capability but not 1080p input capability.

I also have the impression that HD DVD players only output 1080i.

If I remember correctly, de-interlacing directly from 1080i to 1080p should give a very "true to the source" image unless a manufacturer de-interlaces 1080i to 520p instead of 1080p. I think scaling from 520p to 1080p would probably degrade the image.

Comments By Kyungkim (CES Attendee)

Yes I asked this specifically and got the reply that it does not, due to hdcp requirements. This has been pointed out to be bubkus, hdcp does not limit rez.

I asked this question at a number of mfg planning 1080p sets and the most telling came from sony. They said they do not support 1080p (in) since no consumer device is capable of outputing a true 1080p signal. Even the blu ray players sold in japan only output 1080i.

So im not holding my breadth on the digital side of the 1080p input on this generation, i dont think they will be capable of it. Im 99.99 percent positive the hdmi ports will not support 1080p from talking to the reps.

Im holding out against hope that the vga input hasnt been crippled. I know everyone wants digital, but rgb has been the way that g90 projectors have been fed with 1080p for years, so im sure it wont be so awful.

Those last comments are from kyungkim. He has posted some excellent pictures and commentary, and the last thing I want to do is be unfairly credited for his (IMHO correct) insights.

Here is the panny DLP I promised to post for htwaits earlier.

So I have a small dilemma, should we just go along with TI’s wishes and call these chips 720p and 1080p chips on our spec page or should attempt to list actual chips. If we decide to list actual chips should we just put the data above in or should we list all of the possible options.

Since there is more than one version of the 720 chip, and more than one version of the 1080 chip, I think it might be more helpful to know exactly which one is in each model, as you did above. Knowledge is power!

Again, great job Bill.

Originally posted by TetsujinWave
Those last comments are from kyungkim. He has posted some excellent pictures and commentary, and the last thing I want to do is be unfairly credited for his (IMHO correct) insights.

Fixed ... credit updated.

htwaits or any other HLPxx63W series owner ... does the current 63 series have a center channel shelf on top of the monitor. We have an open question on the shelf and these new monitors seem to be closer to the 63 cabinet approach than the 74 series approach in terms of design.

No, the xx63's do not have a center shelf. And I agree, the new xx68's and xx78's look very much like the xx63 cabinets.

UCSB over on the CES!!!--The show in pictures... thread TetsujinWave
posted a link to a Japanese site. Toward the bottom of the article they make reference to (I think) the xhd3 chip and the following is pulled from that:

10,000:1 of the industry highest specifications is achieved by the fact that each of them combines dynamic lamp control technology as rear professional.

They refer to dynamic lamp control to get the high CR numbers. I think this is the first mention that we have of "dynamic lamp control". (assuming the translation is good)

Originally posted by TetsujinWave
Here is the panny DLP I promised to post for htwaits earlier.
Thanks. Does it look as funny in person as it does in pictures? :)

Originally posted by schaffer970
UCSB over on the CES!!!--The show in pictures... thread TetsujinWave
posted a link to a Japanese site. Toward the bottom of the article they make reference to (I think) the xhd3 chip and the following is pulled from that:

10,000:1 of the industry highest specifications is achieved by the fact that each of them combines dynamic lamp control technology as rear professional.

They refer to dynamic lamp control to get the high CR numbers. I think this is the first mention that we have of "dynamic lamp control". (assuming the translation is good)

Yes ... I read that piece. It does seem to be referring to the xHD3. What was it Rumsfield said during the Iraqi war, "we know what we know, we know what we don't know, we don't know what we don't know ...". We have definitely confirmed the existence of the HD4 ... TI has a lot riding on the 1080p intro, it might be the cornerstone of their long-term DLP strategy. I feel they would be doing a 2005 version of the xHD3 as a companion. The xHD4 still seems to make sense to me.

http://www.zeiss.de/C12567BE0045DA85/ContentsWWWIntern/93D3E1D2AF354CC9C1256F01003D6DF4

Originally posted by millerwill
No, the xx63's do not have a center shelf. And I agree, the new xx68's and xx78's look very much like the xx63 cabinets.
Another indicator is that Samsung seems able to build shallower cases using the "wobble" chips. The HLP4674 and HLP5674 were the exact same case as the HLN sets.

If that deeper case is gone then a shelf may no longer be practical.

Sorry posted wrong link ... page 3:

http://www.zeiss.de/C12567BE00473A92/EmbedTitelIntern/Imagebroschuereenglish/$File/image_engl.pdf

I agree with you, there most certainly is a xHD4 chip and it would make sense to me that it encompasses more than just the silicon for the chip. It obviously includes wobulation; it likely includes dynamic lamp control and possibly includes big yellow color wheel technology (or some other color wheel enhancements).

Does anyone know what the relationship between TI and HP is regarding DLP? Is there some sort of cross-licensing or something going on?

Originally posted by millerwill
No, the xx63's do not have a center shelf. And I agree, the new xx68's and xx78's look very much like the xx63 cabinets.

If TetsujinWave wants to take a look at the original of this photo in high resolution, he may be able to answer the shelf question. The back of the monitor appears to be reflecting on the glass (plastic) behind it.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4966499&fullpage=1

UCSB, just went back and reread the article from Japan. Did you notice in the part about the Matsushita DLPs they mention a 8 segment color wheel and higher rpms. All part of the mystery.

Originally posted by schaffer970
Did you notice in the part about the Matsushita DLPs they mention a 8 segment color wheel and higher rpms. All part of the mystery.
Isn't Matsushita the owner of Panasonic? If so, they have an eight element color wheel in their 2004 models. That probably means the wheel has to spin faster than six or seven element wheels.

Originally posted by schaffer970
UCSB, just went back and reread the article from Japan. Did you notice in the part about the Matsushita DLPs they mention a 8 segment color wheel and higher rpms. All part of the mystery.

We know current DLP's use 6, 7, and 8 segment wheels. We have confirmation from Kyungkim that a Samsung rep indicated that Samsung was using a 7 segment wheel. It is like the current wheels, just larger.

Everyone should remember these 1080p tabletop HDTV's are six months from launch --- six months before the HLPxx74W's launched we were completely convinced that they would be using 7 segment wheels. I guess I am assuming that they are rev'ing the internals between the 88 and 68/78 series when I talk about six months.

Here is our current list of open issues --- notice I've added question #9 on lip sync.

===================================

1. What is the PQ on the new 1080p models?

2. What TI DLP chips are used in the new models? TI and Samsung are not discussing chips, simply referring to 1080p chips and 720p chips. One press release from Optoma talked about a HD4 (720p) chip and therefore it is really tough to understand what is going on with these chips. When TI introduced the xHD3 (1080p) they claimed a 5000:1 contrast ratio, so it would seem they have a new chip since this has risen to 10000:1 now.

3. What are the DEPTH measurements, dimensions, and weight on the new models by model number? Even a couple of reference points would allow us to see the trend.

4. Will a IEEE1394 input/output be offered on the 67 or 87 series units?

5. What is the contrast ratio spec’s for the HLR5087W 720p pedestal model? If they had one on display, did anyone notice if the pixel pattern was HD2+ or newer HD4 pattern?

6. What is the capability of the 68/88 series 1080p sets to handle computer/video gaming? Specifically, what is lag?

7. What computer resolutions are supported on the 68, 78, and 88 series sets (1920x1080?)? How would this work through the HDMI connection (via DVI - HDMI cable?) Specifically, does it support 1920x1080. Since we THINK that we have confirmed that the 68, 78, and 88 will have VGA/PC input, what resolutions will be supported via this input?

8. Is there a center channel speaker shelf on the 67, 68, or 78 series cabinets? There has been a general feeling in the discussions of this topic that the 67, 68, and 78 series do not have a center channel shelf.

9. Given the increased video processing required in the 1080p units (68, 78, 88 Series), what steps has Samsung taken to insure that we don't see lip sync issues? Did anyone ask specifically about this concern?

10. TOP PRIORITY QUESTION: Can anyone confirm that the 78 series 50" and 70" models are real production models?

Administrator ... I don't know if you still have the capability to send Steve P. at Samsung an email. But, if you do, I think he may be the only person that can resolve the confusion about the 50", 68" and 70" HLRxx78W's. While we may not want to bury him with all of our questions, understanding the status of these three HDTV's will be important for many people. I would like to encourage him to build the 50". Any help would be appreciated.

My almost perfect TV may be may finally be a reality!! One question I havent seen anything about is off-axis viewing. Is there any improvement anyone noticed?

2. What TI DLP chips are used in the new models?

Perhaps a hint to answer Q2 may come from this snippet in:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/ces_2005.htm


"Texas Instruments has a newly upgraded DLP chip, the Dark Chip 3 (DC3). Several new models were announced at CES that use the 1280x720 resolution DC3: "

Could this be what is appearing in the Rear Projection Sets?

a search on DC3 shows up some links:

Looks like the DC3 is a new variant of the HD2+ as the following articles indicate, and maybe is the chip in the new 720p models?. Following extracts are re DLP projectors so the absolute contrast figures won't apply.
http://www.gcaudio.com/products/reviews/infosim2.html

0.8" 720p DarkChip3™ by Texas Instruments
The HT300 E-LINK projector is the first on the market to feature the new 0.8" 720p DarkChip3™ by Texas Instruments (HD2+ DC3). The DarkChip3™ incorporates smaller mirror hinges, reduced gaps between mirrors, a flatter, more reflective surface and a new light absorbent coating for unmatched contrast and color uniformity. Also the DarkChip3™ is a Fast Track Pixel (FTP) chip that allows an approx. 50% reduction of the dithering effect for an exceptionally natural, crystal clear image.

from:
http://www.projectiondesign.com/Default.asp?CatID=1281

The Action! model one mk III is one of the first projectors to utilise the new, enhanced HD2+ DC3 (DarkChip3™) DLP technology from Texas Instruments®. DC3 greatly enhances contrast with up to 25% over the standard HD2+ DC2, reaching an incredible 4000:1. This is made possible by introducing two new teqnologies; reduced vias and smaller gaps between the pixels. Deeper blacks, better black colour point, and greatly improved perceived black.

MBPilot ... here is summary of what we think we know about the DLP chips from all of the info gathered so far. Our problem is that both TI and Samsung have decided not to discuss the DLP chips in these units. I posted the text below a little while back ... I'm still trying to sort out the issue before updating the spec's at the top of the thread.

===========

We have an open issue about what DLP chips are in these new models. It seems that TI (Texas Instruments) and the HDTV vendors have gotten together and decided not to talk about chips, but rather talk about 720p chips and 1080p chips. I can understand this desire on their part. With models coming out at different times during the year, everyone can’t have the latest chip and a lot of other things go into the design of these HDTV’s (firmware, optics, electronics, screens, etc.) beyond the chips. Part of me says that we should just respect their wishes. But, then part of me says … wait, for most of us these are expensive purchases. We have a right to be informed about what we are buying. Could you imagine if Intel decided we are just going to refer to CPU’s by their type, Pentium 4’s for example.

We have gathered a lot of spec’s at CES 2005 and those spec’s are clearly documented in the posters, product display cards, and press releases that we have been accumulating. I think some clear patterns have emerged.

It seems to me that Samsung and TI cooperate closely on the introduction of HDTV’s and DLP chips. This is to be expected (I thought I saw a press release saying Samsung had 69% or the DLP market). Samsung has stated they are using, or will be using TI’s latest chips. So here is my take by model line.

Series 68, 78 – TI xHD4. I don’t know if this is the designation they are using internally, but this is the next 1080p chip after the xHD3 shown initially at CES 2004. When the 68 / 78 product arrives it will be mid 2005. Clearly at least one model year removed from the 2004 chip we saw last year. The xHD3 had a contrast ratio of 5000:1, these new chips are claiming 10,000:1. In addition, there was a Zeiss Optics pdf document that talked about compability with the xHD4 chip.

Series 88 – TI xHD3. This 1080p pedestal HDTV was slated for introduction last November with xHD3. It’s lower 5000:1 contrast ratio, 2004 develop time table, and early introduction (FEB 2005) led me to believe that it is based on the xHD3.

Series 67 – TI HD4. A couple of vendors, Sharp and Optoma, created product display cards stating that they are using the HD4. So we know this is the latest 720p chip. In addition, Samsung is claiming a 2000:1 contrast ratio … just the same as in the Sharp HD4 720p HDTV. Optoma claimed 2500:1.

Series 87 – TI HD2+ or HD4. We do not have a single picture, product display card, press release spec … or really anything on this HDTV. My guess is that they just left the HD2+ chip in the unit (ie used current HLP5085W as base).

So I have a small dilemma, should we just go along with TI’s wishes and call these chips 720p and 1080p chips on our spec page or should attempt to list actual chips. If we decide to list actual chips should we just put the data above in or should we list all of the possible options.

The general concensus so far is to post our best guesses ... with a clear explanation that they have not been confirmed as yet.

Originally posted by MBPilot
a search on DC3 shows up some links:

Looks like the DC3 is a new variant of the HD2+ as the following articles indicate, and maybe is the chip in the new 720p models?. Following extracts are re DLP projectors so the absolute contrast figures won't apply.
http://www.gcaudio.com/products/reviews/infosim2.html

0.8" 720p DarkChip3™ by Texas Instruments
The HT300 E-LINK projector is the first on the market to feature the new 0.8" 720p DarkChip3™ by Texas Instruments (HD2+ DC3). The DarkChip3™ incorporates smaller mirror hinges, reduced gaps between mirrors, a flatter, more reflective surface and a new light absorbent coating for unmatched contrast and color uniformity. Also the DarkChip3™ is a Fast Track Pixel (FTP) chip that allows an approx. 50% reduction of the dithering effect for an exceptionally natural, crystal clear image.

from:
http://www.projectiondesign.com/Default.asp?CatID=1281

The Action! model one mk III is one of the first projectors to utilise the new, enhanced HD2+ DC3 (DarkChip3™) DLP technology from Texas Instruments®. DC3 greatly enhances contrast with up to 25% over the standard HD2+ DC2, reaching an incredible 4000:1. This is made possible by introducing two new teqnologies; reduced vias and smaller gaps between the pixels. Deeper blacks, better black colour point, and greatly improved perceived black.

I wonder if samsung will do an upgrade program for older model DLP boards like before for current HLP owners??

BigJJL

Originally posted by BigJJL
I wonder if samsung will do an upgrade program for older model DLP boards like before for current HLP owners??
Samsung provided new digital boards to owners of the original HLM sets and the earliest HLN sets that didn't have discrete commands for each input and ON/OFF.

They charged $200 for labor.

That's the only upgrade that I know about and, as far as I know, it was only for AVS members.

The only path to an upgrade that I'm aware of would be buying a newer model or having a "lucky" breakdown. :)

I have closed the open issue on the center channel shelf. None of the 2005 models have a center channel shelf. Below is the text that I have added to the top of the thread.

==========================

Each product line spec now includes this bullet:

> NO Center Channel Shelf

==========================

In addition, this text has been added to the questions area:

11. Is there a center channel speaker shelf on the 67, 68, or 78 series cabinets? There has been a general feeling in the discussions of this topic that the 67, 68, and 78 series do not have a center channel shelf.

None of the 2005 models have a center channel speaker shelf.

Comment By Tetsujinwave (CES Attendee):
There isn't enough room for a center channel on top of the 68 and 78 sets, from what I saw in the Samsung area. The back tapers from the bottom to the top--there really isn't a lot of room there for anything, much less a center channel speaker.

I updated the DLP chip information. I also included the comments below in the questions area.

=========================

Example of spec update:

> DLP Chip: per Samsung, Latest 1080p (xHD4 --- neither Samsung nor TI are discussing chips, this is our best guess given available information)

==========================

Text added:

12. What TI DLP chips are used in the new models?

Comments By UCSB (AVS Member):
We have an open issue about what DLP chips are in these new models. It seems that TI (Texas Instruments) and the HDTV vendors have gotten together and decided not to talk about chips, but rather talk about 720p chips and 1080p chips. I can understand this desire on their part. With models coming out at different times during the year, everyone can’t have the latest chip and a lot of other things go into the design of these HDTV’s (firmware, optics, electronics, screens, etc.) beyond the chips. Part of me says that we should just respect their wishes. But, then part of me says … wait, for most of us these are expensive purchases. We have a right to be informed about what we are buying. Could you imagine if Intel decided we are just going to refer to CPU’s by their type, Pentium 4’s for example.

We have gathered a lot of spec’s at CES 2005 and those spec’s are clearly documented in the posters, product display cards, and press releases that we have been accumulating. I think some clear patterns have emerged.

It seems to me that Samsung and TI cooperate closely on the introduction of HDTV’s and DLP chips. This is to be expected (I thought I saw a press release saying Samsung had 69% or the DLP market). Samsung has stated they are using, or will be using TI’s latest chips. So here is my take by model line.

Series 68, 78 – TI xHD4. I don’t know if this is the designation they are using internally, but this is the next 1080p chip after the xHD3 shown initially at CES 2004. When the 68 / 78 product arrives it will be mid 2005. Clearly at least one model year removed from the 2004 chip we saw last year. The xHD3 had a contrast ratio of 5000:1, these new chips are claiming 10,000:1. In addition, there was a Zeiss Optics pdf document that talked about compability with the xHD4 chip.

Series 88 – TI xHD3. This 1080p pedestal HDTV was slated for introduction last November with xHD3. It’s lower 5000:1 contrast ratio, 2004 develop time table, and early introduction (FEB 2005) led me to believe that it is based on the xHD3.

Series 67 – TI HD4. A couple of vendors, Sharp and Optoma, created product display cards stating that they are using the HD4. So we know this is the latest 720p chip. In addition, Samsung is claiming a 2000:1 contrast ratio … just the same as in the Sharp HD4 720p HDTV. Optoma claimed 2500:1.

Series 87 – TI HD2+ or HD4. We do not have a single picture, product display card, press release spec … or really anything on this HDTV. My guess is that they just left the HD2+ chip in the unit (ie used current HLP5085W as base).

After the changes above, here are our remaining open items:

=====================

1. What is the PQ on the new 1080p models?

2. What TI DLP chips are used in the new models?

3. What are the DEPTH measurements, dimensions, and weight on the new models by model number? Even a couple of reference points would allow us to see the trend.

4. Will a IEEE1394 input/output be offered on the 67 or 87 series units?

5. What is the contrast ratio spec’s for the HLR5087W 720p pedestal model? If they had one on display, did anyone notice if the pixel pattern was HD2+ or newer HD4 pattern?

6. What is the capability of the 68/88 series 1080p sets to handle computer/video gaming? Specifically, what is lag?

7. What computer resolutions are supported on the 68, 78, and 88 series sets (1920x1080?)? How would this work through the HDMI connection (via DVI - HDMI cable?) Specifically, does it support 1920x1080. Since we THINK that we have confirmed that the 68, 78, and 88 will have VGA/PC input, what resolutions will be supported via this input?

8. Given the increased video processing required in the 1080p units 68, 78, 88 Series), what steps has Samsung taken to insure that we don't see lip sync issues? Did anyone ask specifically about this concern?

9. TOP PRIORITY QUESTION: Can anyone confirm that the 78 series 50", 67" and 70" models are real production models?

Daphoid wrote:

"I was originally planning on the HLP's, but then decided that because I wouldn't have the money for ANY TV period, until May 2005, that I'd go with the 61" 1080p model... Upon playing with my measuring tape, the 67" fills the space just a little more, which is always nice. I may go with the 61" though depending on final pricings... Because it's the exact same sit, just 6" more screen realestate, is it really worth the extra money?

You're just like me - I've got my tape measure handy also measuring because I had built-in made to house 61 inch TV and am now wondering if 67 inch set will be OK. Once these models come out, I doubt you'll see much more innovation on this kind of scale - probably time to buy - once you make sure the bugs in the new models have been worked out. I think it's a market-share grab with all these competing technologies. Everyone keeps raising the bar... god I love globalization! (at least in consumer electronics).

Also, I doubt Samsung is going to give upgrades on older models. It would be like IBM giving upgrades on computers because of new Pentium. The market is moving. so no need.

What is the story with the "Big Yellow" color wheel? Also, for the people who have actually seen this set - they claim very difficult to get rainbow effect. And one final question: how are new sets on fast pans like in sports?

Originally posted by UCSB
Administrator ... I don't know if you still have the capability to send Steve P. at Samsung an email. But, if you do, I think he may be the only person that can resolve the confusion about the 50", 68" and 70" HLRxx78W's. While we may not want to bury him with all of our questions, understanding the status of these three HDTV's will be important for many people. I would like to encourage him to build the 50". Any help would be appreciated.
I e-mailed Steve Panosian yesterday with a quick personal question regarding the HLP4674W. I wanted to send him an easy-to-answer e-mail before hitting him with the questions from this thread. Well, I received a reply from him.

------------ Here's what I asked him:

Steve,

I have been waiting to purchase a Samsung DLP set since early 2004. Specifically, I have been waiting for the HLP4674W and when it came out I decided I would wait just a little bit longer to see what Samsung would be displaying at CES 2005.

I see there are plans for an HLR4667W. Is this the only new 46 inch DLP that Samsung will be releasing?

The reason I ask is because the HLP4674W fits just perfectly in our entertainment center. This is a great set, but I was waiting to see if an upgrade to this model would come.

Will there be a new "thin bezel" 46 inch DLP, or is the HLP4674W the last of its style?

Thank you for any information you can provide.

------------ Steve replied 18 minutes later with:

buy the 4674w while you can, in fact, since you waited this long, the weekend of the 23rd Jan will begin some new promos. If you subscrib to a participating cable servicer, there's another up to $200 gift card if you sign up for HD cable.

S

----------------------------------------------------------------

Based on Steve's comments, it sounds like there is no upgrade for the HLP4674W planned.

I would agree with you (Bill & Tetsujinwave) that none of the 2005 sets will have that shelf for the center channel, because in the past it was only these "thin bezel" sets that had the shelf - And it doesn't sound like they're making them anymore.

After I received this reply from Steve, I sent him another e-mail with questions from this thread. That was at the end of the day and he may have already gone home. I have not received a reply yet. If I do, I'll be sure to post it here.

If I don't hear from him by Friday afternoon, I'll send him a quick e-mail just asking specifically about the 50", 68" and 70" HLRxx78W's.

Looks like I'll be getting a HLP4674W then. Same contrast ratio as the HLR series, and I don't want any of that extra CableCard stuff. Center channel shelf is a nice bonus.

I can't handle a picture larger than 46 inches given my current space.

I'm in no hurry, so I'll wait for them to come down in price. $2700 from a reputable dealer would be the sweetspot for me.

Edit: And the base HLRs only have one Digital Input (HDMI). I'll take the HLPs HDMI + DVI anyday.

Do you think the reason we won't see a sub 50 inch 1080p model is that you'd have to be a foot away from the screen to tell the difference in resolution? I'd personally love a smaller model with a 10000:1 contrast ratio.

Originally posted by htwaits
Isn't Matsushita the owner of Panasonic? If so, they have an eight element color wheel in their 2004 models. That probably means the wheel has to spin faster than six or seven element wheels.
Hey there HT...
Don't know much about color wheels and how their speed is related to light engine processing speed (if indeed it is), but I was wondering why you would think an 8-segment wheel would have to spin faster than a 7-segment wheel.

Granted, the more segments a wheel has, the less "dwell" time any single color segment has in the light path. However, it seems to me that regardless of how many segments a wheel has, one revolution of the wheel produces the full "effect" intended by the designer; that is to display the correct colors. Is there any inherent advantage to speeding up wheels with more segments?

Sorry if this is off-topic, but your post piqued my curiosity.
Chris

That might be a bit of wishful thinking. I was surprised they brought a 50" 1080p display. Pleasantly surprised, mind you--but if they were going to push a 46" 1080p, they probably would have shown it.

However, I also believe the fact that Samsung built a 50" shows that they are concerned about what people want (i. e., if they'll buy it, we'll build it), even if the real viewing benefit is less than ideal.

Originally posted by MBPilot
a search on DC3 shows up some links:

Looks like the DC3 is a new variant of the HD2+ as the following articles indicate, and maybe is the chip in the new 720p models?.

0.8" 720p DarkChip3™ by Texas Instruments
The HT300 E-LINK projector is the first on the market to feature the new 0.8" 720p DarkChip3™ by Texas Instruments (HD2+ DC3). The DarkChip3™ incorporates smaller mirror hinges, reduced gaps between mirrors, a flatter, more reflective surface and a new light absorbent coating for unmatched contrast and color uniformity. Also the DarkChip3™ is a Fast Track Pixel (FTP) chip that allows an approx. 50% reduction of the dithering effect for an exceptionally natural, crystal clear image.

Is it possible the so-called HD4 chip is the same as the HD2+ DC3 chip that MB Pilot quotes above?

Originally posted by TetsujinWave
but if they were going to push a 46" 1080p, they probably would have shown it.
I wasn't necessarily expecting a 46" 1080p - Just an upgraded version of the HLP4674W with the same thin bezel... But it sounds like the only new 46" is the HLR4667W.

No. The HD4 is a .55 DMD. The HD2+ is a .8" DMD.

Incidentally, the xHDy chip is supposedly a .85" DMD.

Originally posted by Administrator

------------ Steve replied 18 minutes later with:

buy the 4674w while you can...

I wonder if Samsung is going to discontinue the 74 series once the new models start rolling out.

Besides Panosonic and LG, what other manufacturers had DLP TV's on display at CES?

Originally posted by Low Roller
I wonder if Samsung is going to discontinue the 74 series once the new models start rolling out.
My guess is that they'll discontinue:
The 74 Series when the 78 Series comes out.
The 63 Series when the 67 & 68 Series comes out.
The 85 Series when the 87 & 88 Series comes out.

A lot of them. Off the top of my head:

Toshiba
Optoma
Sharp
Sagem
Mitsubishi

I probably have forgotten one or two, but you get the idea.

Originally posted by Administrator
I would agree with you (Bill & Tetsujinwave) that none of the 2005 sets will have that shelf for the center channel, because in the past it was only these "thin bezel" sets that had the shelf - And it doesn't sound like they're making them anymore.

I haven't seen what the sloping back of the new units look like, but it seems like somebody could design a DIY shelf the would sit onto the top of set, using a small lip to anchor it in the front, and with back legs that would "clip" into some existing holes on the back panel, like maybe ventilation slots (if the sets have them). I guess one could get adventurous and drill a couple of holes in the back panel to attach the shelf's back legs into. If such a design would actually work, the plans could be posted here on the Forum for all to use. Any industrial designers out there?

Originally posted by TetsujinWave
No. The HD4 is a .55 DMD. The HD2+ is a .8" DMD.

Incidentally, the xHDy chip is supposedly a .85" DMD.
Got it TW. Completely different animals then...

Originally posted by Administrator
I e-mailed Steve Panosian yesterday with a quick personal question regarding the HLP4674W. I wanted to send him an easy-to-answer e-mail before hitting him with the questions from this thread. Well, I received a reply from him.

------------ Here's what I asked him:

Steve,

I have been waiting to purchase a Samsung DLP set since early 2004. Specifically, I have been waiting for the HLP4674W and when it came out I decided I would wait just a little bit longer to see what Samsung would be displaying at CES 2005.

I see there are plans for an HLR4667W. Is this the only new 46 inch DLP that Samsung will be releasing?

The reason I ask is because the HLP4674W fits just perfectly in our entertainment center. This is a great set, but I was waiting to see if an upgrade to this model would come.

Will there be a new "thin bezel" 46 inch DLP, or is the HLP4674W the last of its style?

Thank you for any information you can provide.

------------ Steve replied 18 minutes later with:

buy the 4674w while you can, in fact, since you waited this long, the weekend of the 23rd Jan will begin some new promos. If you subscrib to a participating cable servicer, there's another up to $200 gift card if you sign up for HD cable.

S

----------------------------------------------------------------

Based on Steve's comments, it sounds like there is no upgrade for the HLP4674W planned.

I would agree with you (Bill & Tetsujinwave) that none of the 2005 sets will have that shelf for the center channel, because in the past it was only these "thin bezel" sets that had the shelf - And it doesn't sound like they're making them anymore.

After I received this reply from Steve, I sent him another e-mail with questions from this thread. That was at the end of the day and he may have already gone home. I have not received a reply yet. If I do, I'll be sure to post it here.

If I don't hear from him by Friday afternoon, I'll send him a quick e-mail just asking specifically about the 50", 68" and 70" HLRxx78W's.

Thanks for sending Steve P. the questions, especially the series 78 50", 67", and 70" questions! After thinking about it, sending Steve the link to the start of this thread and asking him to check the info for accuracy and make additions seems like a good idea to me.

Thanks.

CC has a shelf that you can buy now that is a clip on. There was a thread discussing this and whether there would be stresses placed on the set that were undesirable. There was also someone who had a shelf made that attached to the back of a cabinet and then held the speaker (like a bike rack more or less).

Originally posted by schaffer970
CC has a shelf that you can buy now that is a clip on. There was a thread discussing this and whether there would be stresses placed on the set that were undesirable. There was also someone who had a shelf made that attached to the back of a cabinet and then held the speaker (like a bike rack more or less).
Thanks Schaffer970. Guess I shoulda done a search first...I should know better....:rolleyes:

Is the 78 series a thin bezel model similar to ther current 74 series? Hard to tell from the pics. Thanks to all for all the hard work on this thread!

Originally posted by Iwanthd
Is the 78 series a thin bezel model similar to ther current 74 series? Hard to tell from the pics. Thanks to all for all the hard work on this thread!
No, it is not. Unfortunately, the 74 Series was the last time we'll see that thin bezel and a center channel shelf.

Originally posted by Administrator
My guess is that they'll discontinue:
The 74 Series when the 78 Series comes out.
The 63 Series when the 67 & 68 Series comes out.
The 85 Series when the 87 & 88 Series comes out.

I agree.

Originally posted by Iwanthd
Is the 78 series a thin bezel model similar to ther current 74 series? Hard to tell from the pics. Thanks to all for all the hard work on this thread!

Checkout the photos of all models in the very first post of this thread.

CSonntag, no problem. I have trouble remembering what we have talked about in this thread over the last week, let alone other threads. I was interested in the speaker discussion, so happened to remember it :)

Originally posted by CSonntag
Hey there HT...
Don't know much about color wheels and how their speed is related to light engine processing speed (if indeed it is), but I was wondering why you would think an 8-segment wheel would have to spin faster than a 7-segment wheel.
I based it on the increase in speed from six to seven elements that Samsung uses. I don't have the exact speed numbers at hand but I believe that the increase in speed is proportional to the increase in segments.

An engineer (I think) explained why a few weeks ago but unfortunately I don't remember the details. It's probably related to keeping the mirrors exposed to each segment for a required amount of time.

It would follow, given my shaky background, that an eight segment wheel would spin 1/7th faster than a seven element wheel. Or, would it be 1/8th faster? :rolleyes:

I'm getting a headache. I think I'll go watch some movies. :)

I have added the following question to our open questions:

9. What, if any, are the speaker and audio (power output, sound processing) differences between the 68 and 78 series?

I have added the following question to our open questions:

10. What is the MSRP for the 78 series units?

Here is where our open issues now stand:

===================

1. What is the PQ on the new 1080p models?

2. What TI DLP chips are used in the new models?

3. What are the DEPTH measurements, dimensions, and weight on the new series 68/78 models by model number? Even a couple of reference points would allow us to see the trend.

4. Will a IEEE1394 input/output be offered on the 67 or 87 series units?

5. What is the contrast ratio spec’s for the HLR5087W 720p pedestal model? If they had one on display, did anyone notice if the pixel pattern was HD2+ or newer HD4 pattern?

6. Given the increased video processing demands of 1080p, what is the capability of the 68/78/88 series 1080p sets to handle computer/video gaming? Specifically, what is lag?

7. What computer resolutions are supported on the 68, 78, and 88 series sets (1920x1080?)? How would this work through the HDMI connection (via DVI - HDMI cable?) Specifically, does it support 1920x1080. Since we THINK that we have confirmed that the 68, 78, and 88 will have VGA/PC input, what resolutions will be supported via this input?

8. Given the increased video processing required in the 1080p units 68, 78, 88 Series), what steps has Samsung taken to insure that we don't see lip sync issues? Did anyone ask specifically about this concern?

9. What, if any, are the speaker and audio (power output, sound processing) differences between the 68 and 78 series?

10. What is the MSRP for the 78 series units?

11. TOP PRIORITY QUESTION: Can anyone confirm that the 78 series (HLRxx78W) 50", 67" and 70" models are real production models?

Originally posted by htwaits
I based it on the increase in speed from six to seven elements that Samsung uses. I don't have the exact speed numbers at hand but I believe that the increase in speed is proportional to the increase in segments.

An engineer (I think) explained why a few weeks ago but unfortunately I don't remember the details. It's probably related to keeping the mirrors exposed to each segment for a required amount of time.

It would follow, given my shaky background, that an eight segment wheel would spin 1/7th faster than a seven element wheel. Or, would it be 1/8th faster? :rolleyes:

I'm getting a headache. I think I'll go watch some movies. :)

Hope you don't get RBE headaches! :D

Maybe we need to get Rogo to chime in here and educate us a bit...

Originally posted by CSonntag
Hope you don't get RBE headaches! :D

Not a one.

Maybe we need to get Rogo to chime in here and educate us a bit...
I think Rogo may have contributed the information that the increase in color wheel speed to compensate for additional segments had no effect on the visibility of rainbows.

This talk of rotational speeds makes my head spin :D

I started to try and explain why I thought they would have to spin faster and I think I got the same headache that htwaits did. Intuitively it seems to me that they have to go faster, but I don't have a good explanation of the mechanics

If anyone has any pedestal model photos from the show, please post ... or if you have seen any in the news coverage please post link. I don't have any right now and it would be nice to include a few.

If you mean the "Kirk" design, I'm not sure it was there. there may have been one in the home office setups, but I don't remember seeing one.

Originally posted by TetsujinWave
If you mean the "Kirk" design, I'm not sure it was there. there may have been one in the home office setups, but I don't remember seeing one.

OK ... thanks. Interesting. I wonder if that means they are going to be putting a lot less emphasis on that model going forward.

Originally posted by schaffer970
This talk of rotational speeds makes my head spin :D
LOL!!!

I started to try and explain why I thought they would have to spin faster and I think I got the same headache that htwaits did. Intuitively it seems to me that they have to go faster, but I don't have a good explanation of the mechanics
I'm sure somebody here will give us an explanation we can all understand...there're just too many nerds, errrr, I mean... smart people here on AVS not to get it explained!:D

As for me, I'm just nerdy enough to ask the questions, but not answer them!:p

UCSB, in the Samsung CES flash web thing, they have a picture advertising "The Worlds First HDMI Home Theater System" that includes a picture of a Kirk. I have no idea if it was an 88.

Nice job. I couldn't exactly remember if one was there.

Aren't some of the WM9HD disc encoded in 1080p?...these are "commercial products". This means that a HTPC can output a true 1980x1080p signal if set to 60Hz. If anyone brought one of these discs to CES it would be easy to confirm if HDMI could pass a 1080p signal.

I know that T2 was released in 1080p.
http://www.wmvhd.com/

[QUOTE]Originally posted by UCSB
[B]Here is where our open issues now stand:

===================

I personally would also like to know if there will be a 70"model in the xx68 series. I would be interested in this size, and I actually like the 'floating screen' structure of the xx68's better than the 'black lacquer' form of the xx78 series. (Of course the 6768 comes withiin 3" of 70", but what the heck, why not go for it all!)

Originally posted by htwaits
I based it on the increase in speed from six to seven elements that Samsung uses. I don't have the exact speed numbers at hand but I believe that the increase in speed is proportional to the increase in segments.

An engineer (I think) explained why a few weeks ago but unfortunately I don't remember the details. It's probably related to keeping the mirrors exposed to each segment for a required amount of time.

It would follow, given my shaky background, that an eight segment wheel would spin 1/7th faster than a seven element wheel. Or, would it be 1/8th faster? :rolleyes:

I'm getting a headache. I think I'll go watch some movies. :)

I thought it had to do with just having 7 segments instead of 8. The old 6 segment wheels would rotate 2.5 times per 60Hz frame. If you kept that with the 7 segment wheel you would of had to process each alternating frame differently (ie 2 dark green segments per frame then 3.) They speed up the wheel so you would get a 6X colour processing instead of 5X, 6X uses 3 full rotations of the colour wheel.

I also believe the data rate on the HD3 and HD4 are faster than the HD2 or the HD2+.

I believe the 8 segment wheel is for those who wish to to support 48Hz for projecting 24 fps (film) source material without the usual 3:2 reverse pull down jerkiness. Having the 8 segments means you can again use half rotations of the colour wheel.

Although I've posted this before, the discussion about loss of the center channel shelf made me want to bring it up again. Does anyone know where the remote sensor is on the HLR models? My HLN, which would not support the weight of my center channel, has the remote sensor near the light engine, so that you can point the remote at the screen, and the reflector concentrates the signal at the sensor. That allows me to put my center channel on the TV stand shelf in front of the TV - blocking the Samsung circle and the status lights. I don't believe you can do that on the HLP's (the sensor is either within or near the circle), and I'm thinking that the HLR's will be similar. Can anyone confirm that? Does anyone know why Samsung moved the location of the sensor?

Originally posted by gakon
I don't believe you can do that on the HLP's (the sensor is either within or near the circle), and I'm thinking that the HLR's will be similar. Can anyone confirm that? Does anyone know why Samsung moved the location of the sensor?
The sensor will be below the status lights like the HLP.

You can see it in both of these pictures:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=4942336&fullpage=1
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=4955685&fullpage=1

I think Samsung moved it there because the HLN's sometimes had problems with the remotes - You would aim it at the TV and it wouldn't work... I think this new location has fixed that for the most part.

I rigged a home-made arrangement for the center speaker (from suggestions from others) on my hlp6163 that works really well. My center weighs only 18lbs, though, so this arrangement might not be useful if yours is a lot heavier.

But for what it's worth: I use industrial strenght velcro (from Home Depot) and attach the front edge of the speaker bottom to the top of the tv (i.e, a velcro strip stuck to the top edge of the tv and another to the bottom front edge of the speaker); this is very secure. I then support the back of the speaker with a wooden stick (1/4" thick, 2" wide, about 5 or 6" long) that has one end under the back part of the speaker (and secured there, again, via velcro), and the other end braced on the back, sloping side of the tv. Quite conveniently, there is a small plastic protrusion on the tv frame at just the right spot to brace the wooden stick (and it is secured there via velcro). I have had this ~4 or 5 months, and it works great. By moving just where the stick hits the bottom of the speaker, one can easily adjust the downward angle one want to 'aim' the speaker. And the sound is much better than when I first had the center speaker in the tv stand below.

Originally posted by millerwill
I rigged a home-made arrangement for the center speaker (from suggestions from others) on my hlp6163 that works really well. My center weighs only 18lbs, though, so this arrangement might not be useful if yours is a lot heavier.

But for what it's worth: I use industrial strenght velcro (from Home Depot) and attach the front edge of the speaker bottom to the top of the tv (i.e, a velcro strip stuck to the top edge of the tv and another to the bottom front edge of the speaker); this is very secure. I then support the back of the speaker with a wooden stick (1/4" thick, 2" wide, about 5 or 6" long) that has one end under the back part of the speaker (and secured there, again, via velcro), and the other end braced on the back, sloping side of the tv. Quite conveniently, there is a small plastic protrusion on the tv frame at just the right spot to brace the wooden stick (and it is secured there via velcro). I have had this ~4 or 5 months, and it works great. By moving just where the stick hits the bottom of the speaker, one can easily adjust the downward angle one want to 'aim' the speaker. And the sound is much better than when I first had the center speaker in the tv stand below.
This is kinda what I was referring to in my earlier post, although I was thinking more about designing a shelf that would attach to the set, then just putting the center channel on the shelf. Your design would work as well I guess. However, my CC is quite a bit heavier (B&W CDM-SE), probably closer to 25 pounds. So perhaps multiple rear attaching points would have to be used to distribute the weight across the set's rear panel better.

Luckily, my HT built-in has a shelf directly above the TV section for center channel.

With respect to rotation speeds, like centrifuges, the faster they go, the more can go wrong. During my rezearch days at Harvard, the most common was a stuck ball-bearing or even worse the motor fizzing out. Do these new models have the "Big Yellow" wheel that HP developed?

CSonntag: Yes, two supporting sticks might be better. But I run the velcro strip (that attaches the front, bottom edge of the speaker to the top of the tv) the whole width of the center speaker, so holds the speaker incredibly securely and stably, so that just the single back support stick (placed right at the midpoint width-wise, and near the back of the speaker) is very stable.

I have been considering replacing my Infinity Primus c25 center (18 lbs) with the Infinity Alpha 37c (32 lbs), so that would be more of a challenge to my rig!

Originally posted by millerwill
[QUOTE]Originally posted by UCSB
[B]Here is where our open issues now stand:

===================

I personally would also like to know if there will be a 70"model in the xx68 series. I would be interested in this size, and I actually like the 'floating screen' structure of the xx68's better than the 'black lacquer' form of the xx78 series. (Of course the 6768 comes withiin 3" of 70", but what the heck, why not go for it all!)

At this point in time, we have no reason to believe there will be a 70" in the 68 series. Administrator has contacted Steve P. at Samsung to find out about the 70" 78 series. Hopefully, it will be a production product.

I could start a wish list. :D

So the information flow appears to be slowing to a trickle, as this thread was relegated to second page status!

OK, I'll bite: I have noticed in a few posts that people have referred to wobulation when speaking about the 720p chips. Is this true? I thought only the 1920X540 chips were wobulated to create the "1080p" effect...

Originally posted by CSonntag
So the information flow appears to be slowing to a trickle, as this thread was relegated to second page status!

OK, I'll bite: I have noticed in a few posts that people have referred to wobulation when speaking about the 720p chips. Is this true? I thought only the 1920X960 chips were wobulated to create the "1080p" effect...
The current HD3 chip in the 63 Series (which is 720p) wobbles.

I just saw that TVA has the HLR6168 on their product list (due out June 1), and they say it has the xHD3 chip. Are they just blowing in the wind, or do you suppose they know something? (I agree with all the above discusiion in this thread, i.e., that the specs that have been talked about strongly suggest that the chiip in the xx68's and xx78's is a later generation than the xHD3.)

I'm so glad my center channel is wall mounted above the hole where my TV is going ^_^

Floating speaker = pwn :D

- D

I have talked to both Cambryn and Kirk at TVA. While I don't think they are "just blowing in the wind", I don't think they know any more than we do (in fact I think the information at the top of the thread is the most comprehensive product listing available - it wouldn't surprise me if Samsung is using it to keep track of things :D). I invited TVA to monitor/participate in this thread and add any additional information they might have. They said they would.

Thanks for the information - I'm a looking to get a DLP and have a limited hole in the wall to put one in.

The HLP4674 will fit (although if they made a 50" version of this it would be ideal for the wall opening I have).

In looking at the information from CES, I've seen some indicate that the xx78 series is the replacement for the 74 series, however the photos of the 78 series don't appear to show a thin bezel (a 50" without the thin bezel will likely not fit unless it's not as tall as the 5063).

Will the 78 series have the ultra thin bezel like the 74 series or the normal bezel like the 63 series?

Thanks

Originally posted by lollygagger44
Will the 78 series have the ultra thin bezel like the 74 series or the normal bezel like the 63 series?
There will be no more thin bezel sets. The 74 Series was the last of its kind. You can see the photos of the 78 Series on the first post in this thread.

I am SO thankful that the new Samsung models all have a thick black border (like the present HLPxx63's). I think it sets the picture off much better than the 'thin bezel' and other framings.

Originally posted by Administrator
The current HD3 chip in the 63 Series (which is 720p) wobbles.
So does that mean it creates 720p by wobbling a 1280X360 mirror chip in the same way that 1080p is created by wobbling a 1920X540 mirror chip?

I thought the HD3 chip is a 640x720 chip that wobbles to create the 1280.

Originally posted by CSonntag
So does that mean it creates 720p by wobbling a 1280X360 mirror chip in the same way that 1080p is created by wobbling a 1920X540 mirror chip?

The HD3 uses a 640x720 mirror, and the xHD3 uses a 960x1080 mirror. It just depends how you want to count. ;)

Even though TI and Samsung are not talking about the chips, if you see a set with the "Smooth Vision" feature, you know that its a wobbler.

There is a great thread in the archives started by MrWiggles that talks at length about wobulation. If you have the courage to wobulate your brain here is the link: xHD3 vs real 1080p: Strengths and Limitations (w/pics) (http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=394763)

Originally posted by millerwill
I just saw that TVA has the HLR6168 on their product list (due out June 1), and they say it has the xHD3 chip. Are they just blowing in the wind, or do you suppose they know something? (I agree with all the above discusiion in this thread, i.e., that the specs that have been talked about strongly suggest that the chiip in the xx68's and xx78's is a later generation than the xHD3.)

Thanks millerwill ... I have noted their reference to the xHD3. If TVauthority is monitoring this thread, I'd like to ask that they go back and check their CES notes and make sure that the xHD3 is not associated with the first released 1080p product, the HLR5688, which they haven't listed yet on their site.

I still find it hard to believe that a company that put out the first xHD3, the HD3, and the HD2+ last year can only manage to put out a HD4 this year. But, the reference is noted and we will need more data before we step back from the xHD4 on our spec page.

Originally posted by Low Roller
The HD3 uses a 640x720 mirror, and the xHD3 uses a 960x1080 mirror. It just depends how you want to count. ;)

Even though TI and Samsung are not talking about the chips, if you see a set with the "Smooth Vision" feature, you know that its a wobbler.
Methinks I need to go to remedial chip school...:(