This is also from Kris Derring. In the Oppo review he commented that the chroma resolution response was rolled off. The SGHT review of the 59AVi found the chroma signals over HDMI (not component) to be flat to the 3.38MHz chroma limit.

I asked Kris the source of the roll off. He replied that it was a characteristic of all Faroudja chips. Faroudja halves the chroma response right off the bat as part of its chroma filtering. Faroudja claims this is only noticeable on test patterns.

For example, in the SGHT review of the Denon 5900, which uses the Faroudja chip, it found the chroma signals to begin rolling off at 2.5MHZ, and, though visible on MultiBurst at 3.38MHZ, the signal was way down. SGHT attributed this to the Faroudja chip's color processing.

So here is another general conclusion that can be made about the 59AVI vs. any Faroudja based player, the first being no MB vs. display dependent MB: the 59AVi will have far better chroma resolution than any Faroudja based player. (2.5Mhz vs. 3.38Mhz)

This may account for the many reports of better, deeper, richer, etc. colors w/the 59AVI vs. other players, and might account for the 3D quality w/the 59AVi which many note.

So who is going to do a 5910 vs. 59AVi shootout for all of us?

Newbie signal question... Does the Chroma Response only affect component output, or DVI (RGB) too?

IIRC it was only the component connection.

So who is going to do a 5910 vs. 59AVi shootout for all of us?

Robert, I will do it if I have to. You guys can each Paypal me a couple hundred bucks to buy the 5910 and I'll do it I guess. It's a dirty job but hey, what the.....

THe chroma (color) response (signal) is part of any DVD signal, analog or digital, and they can differ. The SGHT review of the 59AVi found the Chroma response flat over HDMI, but rolled off over component, though no where near as severely as the Denon 5900.

Speaking of SGHT/ Ultimate AV.......Is it officially out of publication yet? I received a notice that they will be replacing my subscription with HT mag for the remainder.

Does anybody use the 59avi with a DVDO iscanHD?

I am thinking about getting the 59avi and wondered if it would be better to use the 59avi via HDMI directly to the TV (JVC HD-ILA 720p LCoS tv), therefore the dvd player upconverts and deinterlaces or is it better to use component cables to the iScan and have the iScan upconvert and deinterlaces. I don't have the iScan HD+ so
these are the only 2 options.

Thanks

Originally posted by Jon SS
Does anybody use the 59avi with a DVDO iscanHD?



Good question. From my reading here it appears that the best scaler at this moment
for the 59avi is the Lumagen. It can accept 480i from the player which is supposed to result in the best image and obviates the need for any SDI modifications. DVDO may release an update that would allow the same.

I've been thinking of getting a 59AVi for use with a Key Digital HDLeeza, as it is supposed to take 480i in on it's DVI inputs also. Has anyone verified for sure that the 59AVi does not have HDCP on the 480i signal as I need to output analog to my CRT PJ.

Originally posted by doctorG4
dixi,

(what you describe is _exactly_ the artifact I get, boosting the contrast up will in fact show that the white strips becomes a greenish/whitish tint in the whole part of the screen below the offending title)

thanks for the tip. I will give it (yet another) try.



Dear Dixi,

This indeed works !(almost) The fact here is that you need to set the player to PROGRESSIVE and NOT to INTERLACE.

My (wrong) assumption was that my Sony TV is a normal (TV KV32)which expect only interlaced input and therefore I was actually making sure the Pioneer was set to INTERLACED.

The result is that in both cases you see the image OK but the presence of subtitle triggers in the Sony the white smearing when in INTERLACED while all is OK in PROGRESSIVE.

Also the color artifacts (colored shadow of complemenmtary color e.g. green has magenta shadow) disappears.

I tested the notorious SW Episode 2 chapter 6...

So all the subtitle are now OK. The only item which is still not working OK is the the red title of Blade, it still smears white, but much less than before...


I suspect the now that AGC of the TV is respopnsible for this and is getting somehow confused and it boost the brightness of the scene when a subtitle was present and the mode interlaced...


Interesting.

I've tried searching through this thread as well as the entire site, but I am still unsure whether the 59AVi will read and output PAL discs? I live in Canada, so NTSC rules, but I have a lot of PAL discs and I want the 59AVi so I can output 480i HDMI to my Lumagen HDP. Will it do this?

Thanks,

Just got this player.. have to admit..its an exceptional player.. I do have one complaint is the Layer change.. very sub standard for this quality of Player...

Anyway.. I went throught the 39 pages and cant find the solution too :

I have a 24/96 Muddy Waters "Folk Singer" and I can not get the output to send the native 96khz signal.. my display shows 48khz.. I reviewed all the settings.. can not seem to find out where to set the sampling rate.

I set down conversion to off ..

Also.. anyone have this player attached to a Panasonic 50"DLP via HDMI.. great picture.. but wanted to find out if any other tweaks that can be applied to this combo..

thanks

Matt

The 59Avi has some nice video. I just have a hard time with the build quality for the price. Then again I'm coming off of a Denon 2900. The layer change on the 2900 was perfect.

Matt- What *kind* of disc is it? If it's a DVD-A, 24/48 is probably all you're going to get due to copyright issues. In the not too distant past though, you actually could get 24/96 with a DAD: digital audio disc. Basically, a DVD-V with 24/96 audio.

I don't think a North American 59AVi will do PAL. I have some discs I bought overseas, and I get flickering video on some of them which I'm guessing is what happens when you play a PAL disc on an NTSC player. ?

Hey Kevin.. its a 24/96 with a DAD disc.. so Im confused.. Im using the COAX out on the Pioneer..

thanks !

Originally posted by Kevin C Brown
Matt- What *kind* of disc is it? If it's a DVD-A, 24/48 is probably all you're going to get due to copyright issues. In the not too distant past though, you actually could get 24/96 with a DAD: digital audio disc. Basically, a DVD-V with 24/96 audio.

I don't think a North American 59AVi will do PAL. I have some discs I bought overseas, and I get flickering video on some of them which I'm guessing is what happens when you play a PAL disc on an NTSC player. ?

indeed Kevin, because you are using ntsc display

Originally posted by mzn50
Hey Kevin.. its a 24/96 with a DAD disc.. so Im confused.. Im using the COAX out on the Pioneer..

thanks !

I dont think you can get 96kHz sampling over coax...

UMD_Terp..
I think I would respectfully disagree.. as its a digital Signal.. ?

Originally posted by mzn50
UMD_Terp..
I think I would respectfully disagree.. as its a digital Signal.. ?

refer to page 43 of the manual...


• My AV receiver is definitely compatible
with 96/88.2kHz Linear PCM audio, but it
doesn’t seem to work with this player.
What’s wrong?
For digital copy-protection purposes,
some 96/88.2kHz DVD discs only output
digital audio downsampled to 48/44.1kHz
through the optical and coaxial outputs.
This is not a malfunction. To fully take
advantage of the high sampling rate
audio, connect the analog audio outputs
to your amplifier/receiver.
• Why can’t I hear SACD audio through the
optical/coaxial digital outputs or the HDMI
interface?
SACD audio is only available through the
analog outputs and the i.LINK connector.
This is not a malfunction. Also, some
DVD-Audio discs only output audio
through the analog outputs and i.LINK
connector.
• Is it better to listen to DVD-Audio discs
through the analog outputs?
Some DVD-Audio discs do not output
anything through the digital outputs, and
multichannel discs are downmixed to
stereo for the optical and coaxial digital
outputs. In addition, high sampling rate
DVD-Audio discs (96kHz or higher) automatically
downsample audio output from
the optical/coaxial digital outputs.

Originally posted by 1st on the Block
I've tried searching through this thread as well as the entire site, but I am still unsure whether the 59AVi will read and output PAL discs? I live in Canada, so NTSC rules, but I have a lot of PAL discs and I want the 59AVi so I can output 480i HDMI to my Lumagen HDP. Will it do this?

Thanks,

I do'nt know about playing PAL on the 59AVi, but here in Europe (The Netherlands) the DV-868AVi is the PAL version of this player if i'm not wrong. And IF it play's the disc, then your TV can be the next problem. Due to the different color coding and Hz.

Anyone running the DV-59AVI with a Panasonic TH-50PHD6UY and is it performing well with the Panasonic plasma?

I sold my Denon 3910 due to major MB issues on this plasma, more due to Faroudjas broken chip.

Originally posted by _XipHiaS_
I do'nt know about playing PAL on the 59AVi, but here in Europe (The Netherlands) the DV-868AVi is the PAL version of this player if i'm not wrong. And IF it play's the disc, then your TV can be the next problem. Due to the different color coding and Hz.

The 59AVi would be connected to a BenQ 8700+ which will display at 50Hz, which wouldn't be a problem. I just want to make sure the 59AVi sold in North America will play PAL discs as well as NTSC. Anybody confirm?

Running mine with the th50phd7uy and it is awesome. See my thread in the plasma forum on this tv/dvd player combo after ISF calibration. I'm extremely happy...

Originally posted by 1st on the Block
The 59AVi would be connected to a BenQ 8700+ which will display at 50Hz, which wouldn't be a problem. I just want to make sure the 59AVi sold in North America will play PAL discs as well as NTSC. Anybody confirm?

According to the Manual it won't but cannot confirm. The Aussie 969 does PAL/NTSC, which shows up as 'DV-S969 only' in the combined 59/969 Owners Manual.

You could try emailing Pioneer - be aware they are very slow in responding:
poccs@pioneer-usa.com

or call Pioneer Canada (Markham):
(905) 479-4411
Toll free: (877) 283 5901
for better response times :)

Thanks, sounds great.

Anyone know if there is a possibilty to modify the DV-59AVI to output 720p thru component?

Will the 59avi (and 47ai, for that matter), output 96 khz DVD-Audio over i.Link? I was under the impression that all audio formats are available over i.Link with no degradation.

Dave

Originally posted by PaulT_BC
According to the Manual it won't but cannot confirm. The Aussie 969 does PAL/NTSC, which shows up as 'DV-S969 only' in the combined 59/969 Owners Manual.

You could try emailing Pioneer - be aware they are very slow in responding:
poccs@pioneer-usa.com

or call Pioneer Canada (Markham):
(905) 479-4411
Toll free: (877) 283 5901
for better response times :)

I called Poineer (thanks for the number) and the answer was very concise: NO!
Well, I can put that player to rest in my quest for 480i over HDMI or go and blow some major coin SDI modding my Denon 2910 and getting the SDI daughter card for the Lumagen HDP.

I am looking to purchase a 59AVi for use with a Key Digital HDLeeza, as it is supposed to take 480i in on it's DVI inputs also. Has anyone verified for sure that the 59AVi does not have HDCP on the 480i signal??? I will be hooking it up to the JVC 150 DILA which doesn't have HDCP.

Thanks in advance for the Info.

I've been asking the same question OpusX. Surely someone has tried the 480i HDMI output on a non HDCP device.Originally posted by obie_fl
I've been thinking of getting a 59AVi for use with a Key Digital HDLeeza, as it is supposed to take 480i in on it's DVI inputs also. Has anyone verified for sure that the 59AVi does not have HDCP on the 480i signal as I need to output analog to my CRT PJ. Quoting oneself probably isn't healthy. :)

Is anyone using the 59avi with an Optoma H77 FP? I read awhile back that there were some issues with these two in combination and it didn't work. Anyone know if this has been resolved (and what was causing the problem)? Thanks!

-Jason

The 59AVi does indeed read PAL discs. What it does not do is PAL to NTSC conversion or vice-versa.

The 59AVi *should* be able to play 24/96 DADs as 24/96. (Older ones definitely could, like the DV-05 I had for a time.) No copyright issues with DADs like DVD-A's. Something is up there...

A coax connection can certainly do stereo 24/96.

i.Link can do everything in its original digital format. No downsampling at all. That's its benefit. :)

I have a 24/96 Muddy Waters "Folk Singer" and I can not get the output to send the native 96khz signal.. my display shows 48khz.. I reviewed all the settings.. can not seem to find out where to set the sampling rate.
If I'm not mistaken, this disc has DVD-A (new hirez format) on one side and DVD+Audio (regular DVD video format with audio tracks) on the other side. The DVD+Audio (same thing Kevin mentioned) side is playable on all DVD players and the 24/96 PCM will be output via coax. Some DVD players have the option of down sampling 24/96 PCM because not all processors can handle it. Pio 47ai and 59avi will also output the 24/96 via i.Link. The DVD-A side should play just fine via 6 analog outputs and i.Link.

larry

I am trying a 59avi, on same display, via hdmi in 1080i, where I tried 2910, let me tell you what a difference in life it occurs if no MB. in pq, overall, I'll ratye 59avi, way ahead, 2910, followed by S97.

Picture is damn so solid, colors are so beautiful, blacks are so excellent.

I tried this player long time ago via component on my pioneer elite pro-710, and my impression was it was not worth the price.

Mind you I was watching a pal to ntsc converted dvd title with 30fps authoring, that I always felt DCDI processor was mostly right thing to handle!!

Previously comparing real time HD movie via HDMI in 1080i with my HDTIVO always looked better than upscaled with those dvd players!

But this is the first time, I felt that 1080i upscaled picture as a matter of fact looked to me better than 1080i via HDTIVO...

This player took me back, why I am a pioneer's video fan!

I think, I'll keep it till HD DVD comes, and will upgrade to 1080P pioneer plasma whenever it becomes available in 70 inch! Man!!
Wow!!!!

QUESTIONS:

1.) Is the layer change seamless?
2.) Does it play DVD+RW?
3.) Is Redbook CD playback as good as a really good stand-alone CDP?

I'm glad you finally settled on a player, zoro. I'm settled on this thing for the long haul.

1) It does NOT have a seamless layer change, but it's quick enough (see Secrets review).

2) Never tried DVD+RW but it should work. I'm sure there would have been cries of agony in this thread if it did not!

2) That's subjective, but if you're just connecting it to a receiver the answer should be YES. If you're feeding a $50k hi-end stereo then you better do your own audition. I've been too busy playing SACDs and DVDs on it to try a CD! One reviewer liked it better than the big Denon 5900... I actually think it has a more compatible "fuller" sound than a Linn Unidisk, i.e. richer but less airy, which is a good thing for your average HT.

Originally posted by dr150
QUESTIONS:

1.) Is the layer change seamless?


On the layer change, haven't re-read the Secret's report, but it seems about .5 to .75 sec. or so (hard to judge). Personally, I get thrown off a bit when it comes up, especially when there is action or movement in the scene. That said, I can live with it given the other virtues of this player.

What is layer change? I've noticed that when I'm playing a DVD, sometimes the image will freeze for a split second and the sound will go off. This happens randomly with random disks. If I "rewind" and watch the same scene again it usually won't freeze again. I'm not sure, but it always seems to occur during a chapter change. I'm guessing it's a chapter change because it occurs at the end of a scene. Otherwise, it's a fantastic player.

yup, i noticed that too, sometimes, its scene chapter change is jerky, but not a layer change

I assumed the layer change was set at a chapter change. Not positive, but I don't remember seeing the stutter more than once when viewing a disc.

Originally posted by Bluesea
I assumed the layer change was set at a chapter change. Not positive, but I don't remember seeing the stutter more than once when viewing a disc.

I think this is fairly common to encounter a new chapter at the layer switch... chapters on the same layer have never been jerky at all.

Isn't it kind of disconcerting that the unit is jerky on no-layer changes.

Heck, not even cheap DVD players have jerky motion on chapter changes on pressed discs.

Can anyone else comment on this issue?........

Originally posted by dr150
Isn't it kind of disconcerting that the unit is jerky on no-layer changes.

Heck, not even cheap DVD players have jerky motion on chapter changes on pressed discs.

Can anyone else comment on this issue?........

Huh?

:confused:

Jerky on no-layer changes???

The posts above list jerky movement between chapters (non layer change related. That is unusal.


BTW, can the Pioneer read MP3s off DVD like its little brother, the 578.

I consulted Kris, re this phenomenon, as my dvd was 30fps, authored asian dvd. He suggested player trips out of cadence mode??? happens all the time!

I've never seen this even once.

you might never ever, if you dont want ****** transfers from south asia!

Got ya!

Can this unit read MP3s off of DVD?........

Does this unit read the mp3 tag information?

Originally posted by Bluesea
On the layer change, haven't re-read the Secret's report, but it seems about .5 to .75 sec. or so (hard to judge). Is the Secret's report of this player still up? I can't seem to find it. :confused:

Peace...

Kris wrote that he'll be posting the updated report next week. Apparently, he's taken down the old report already. (Presumably, because it was based on the old firmware and is no longer accurate.)

Can anyone clear this up for me? Is it true that you cannot view dvd audio menus over the HDMI output because of copyright issues on this player. Every other dvd audio player with dvi or hdmi outputs will allow this. If this is true does the player output video via hdmi and component/s-video at the same time or do you need to enter the setup menu everytime and change the output? Alot of extra steps one would have to go through to see a dvd audio menu on the disc.

2. It has been reported that when you have this player hooked up via firewire and ALSO have the hdmi hooked up that the unit will down rez dvd audio in the same way that it does if you try and listen to a high rez format disc via coax/toslink because the player recognizes the hdmi cable is hooked up and it auto down rezes the dvd audio track because it thinks its trying to snd the audio over hdmi? But... if you unhook the hdmi cable and play the same dvd audio cd through the firewire connection you will get the highest resolution on the disc. (it won't get down rezed in the same manner as it would trying to listen to a dvd audio disc through coax/optical)

This would seem like a huge bummer for the player if this were true. Can anyone with this player that use a firewire connection comment? Thanks

I currently have a Yamaha Z-9 receiver and a cheap Samsung dvd audio player hd841 and it sounds great via the 5.1 analog outputs but I'm itching to use the firewire connection with a great player like this one.
I wanted to get feedback on these issues. I cannot see waiting for Yamaha's s2500 i-link equipped player. I highly doubt it will surpas this players quality.

Thanks again

Thanks

Originally posted by Troytn
It has been reported that when you have this player hooked up via firewire and ALSO have the hdmi hooked up that the unit will down rez dvd audio in the same way that it does if you try and listen to a high rez format disc via coax/toslink because the player recognizes the hdmi cable is hooked up and it auto down rezes the dvd audio track because it thinks its trying to snd the audio over hdmi?

I have mine hooked up by both Component and HDMI for video and iLink (firewire) for audio. On DVD-Audio discs my VSX-55TXi shows 192kHz for stereo and 96kHz for 5.1 surround. So I don't think it's downgraded.

When I play DVD-Audio discs I simply change the input on the TV to component so I can see the menus.

Does the unit play DVD+RW?...........

In another thread, Kris ranked the DV-59AVi as follows:
1) Not recommended for component because of Y/C delay.

2) HDMI if your display has Macroblocking: 1) Denon 5910; 2) Pioneer DV-59AVi; 3) Onkyo SP1000 (CUE problem) and NO others.

3) HDMI if your display does not have Macroblocking: 1) Denon 5910; 2) & 3) Pioneer DV-59AVi & Denon 3910 (TIE); 4) Onkyo SP1000 (CUE problem); 5) Pan S97 (discontinued).

The Component ranking is: 1) Denon 5910; 2) Pan RP82 (disc.); 3) Arcam DV-27A (disc.); 4) Pan XP30 (disc.): 5) Onkyo SP1000 (CUE problem). Not many currently made component choices.

It's amazing how, from time to time, Pan can make excellent cheap players; too bad its not consistent.

You forgot this. Denon 3910(potential MB,BTB) and Panny s97(potential MB), 59avi(Chroma ICP) RP82(HO2) ;)

BTW, The HDMI testings are not yet completed for the sp1000

Originally posted by Robert Whitehead
In another thread, Kris ranked the DV-59AVi as follows:
1) Not recommended for component because of Y/C delay.


This is the first time I'm told that the 59Avi (and probabli the european 868Avi as well) have Y/C delay.

1) is this documented somewhere ? (e.g. test, review, some image etc) ?
2) cannot this be corrected by mean of player configuration (I remember seening some parameter related to delay correction which I though was exactly chroma delay tuning).

Thanks

As far as we all know, the latest version of the firmware *does* address the Y/C delay for component. He's supposed to put up the new results soon.

So looks like he did get a 1000 after all. Be interesting to see how this player does.

If anyone has experienced lip sync problems on their DVD players, please help us all by visiting the thread listed below and contributing your information.
LIP SYNC PROBLEM DATA COLLECTION (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=537705)

Thank you for taking the time to contribute to this project. :)

Kris' comment on the Y/C delay over component was based on his testing of the new unit with the new firmware, not the old one previously reviewed. Based on his HDMI recommendation for the DV-59AVi, one can assume that the new firmware resolved the Y/C delay problem over HDMI

What has better sound (i.e. CD, DVDA, SACD, movies), the Denon 3910 or 59AVI???....

Originally posted by dr150
What has better sound (i.e. CD, DVDA, SACD, movies), the Denon 3910 or 59AVI???....

The Onkyo 1000, The Integra 10.5, and the Denon 5910. YMMV and you'd have to decide "how much better" and if it's worth the extra $$$$ to you.

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
The Onkyo 1000, The Integra 10.5, and the Denon 5910. YMMV and you'd have to decide "how much better" and if it's worth the extra $$$$ to you.

Only if using the analog section... If using the firewire connection, then they will all sound the same...

I have a Yamaha rx-z9 receiver and really want to get this dvd player and utilize the firewire connection. Has anyone used these 2 units together? I am told from Pioneer that they will not guarantee compatibility with other brands I-Link connections. What are the chances these will not match up?
Has anyone used the Pioneer firewire connection to another branded product and does it work?

I currently use a samsung hd841 for dvd audio/sacd. Can I assume I will hear a large improvement using firewire?

Robert- If you go back and look through this thread, a number of 59AVi owners *have* looked at the Y/C delay test pattern on Avia and seen no delay even through component. So I'm not sure what Kris is seeing unless there's variation among units.

Lip sync on a Pioneer? I haven't had that problem since the 414 player I had a long time ago. And even in that case, Pioneer came out with a firmware fix to address it. I guess that's one problem we don't have vs other players...

Originally posted by LEVESQUE
Only if using the analog section... If using the firewire connection, then they will all sound the same...

You forgot the Placebo effect and the heavier, better built player will make you think the sound is better. Don't forget a botique HDMI cable will make a big difference too:D

Originally posted by LEVESQUE
Only if using the analog section... If using the firewire connection, then they will all sound the same...

Right.

And anyone who is going to purchase a new receiver or pre/pro would be crazy to buy one that doesn't have a firewire connection.

Originally posted by LEVESQUE
Only if using the analog section... If using the firewire connection, then they will all sound the same...

Only question I have on that idea would be this:

Theoretically, if I get the Son May Hong Kong special for $200 overseas, and this player happens to have firewire on it and then a $3500 player like, say, the Denon 5910 also has firewire...they're BOTH going to sound EXACTLY the same?

(We won't even get into coax or optical, from which I've heard differences between units myself in the past in addition to more pronounced differences over analogs, as you might expect.)

How can this be? Surely engineering and quality of components used has to come into play at some point?

There are two lines of thought here: one is that "digital is digital". The other is as you say: quality of the components, even when using a pure digital connection, can make a difference. Let your own ears be the judge.

That said, I think it is clear that there will be much, much less difference between sound quality of different players when using the firewire connection than the analog sections.....if any difference at all.

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
How can this be? Surely engineering and quality of components used has to come into play at some point? Digital is digital. If it reads ones and zeros, and does no conversion, sends ones and zeros, there can be no difference. Unless it's getting read or send errors, which is unlikely IMO. Bit errors would appear not as a minute fidelity diffferences but as pops, etc. If you heard differences between a coax digital and an optical digital, then something else was to blame. It does not matter if the ones and zeros are passed optically or electrically, again unless components are causing bit errors. And bit errors will cause much worse things IMO. THre is no magic with digital. One chip can't make better 1's and 0's than another. It can either read and send them or it can't . Now whatever converts those ones and zeros back to analog for us is a different story. Lots of room for differences there.

That's why people like Kris Deering and me are saying that the 59avi is the "ultimate" digital transport for the price.

2 reasons:

1) 480i over HDMI. You can then use the scaler you want, with the de-interlacer or scaling engine you prefer.

2) Firewire. All sound formats through 1 cable, and your pre/pro or receiver is then doing all the job (BM, TA...) where it should be done.

Originally posted by LEVESQUE
That's why people like Kris Deering and me are saying that the 59avi is the "ultimate" digital transport for the price.

2 reasons:

1) 480i over HDMI. You can then use the scaler you want, with the de-interlacer or scaling engine you prefer.

2) Firewire. All sound formats through 1 cable, and your pre/pro or receiver is then doing all the job (BM, TA...) where it should be done.

No disagreement from me there!

:)

Digital is not digital: jitter matters.

www.jitter.de (they are selling a product, but they have the best explanation I've seen)

In one of the the latest UK mag's I read, they did a jitter test of a Denon player to a Denon receiver, and they compared the jitter levels of coax/toslink, vs i.Link vs Denon Link. The jitter levels were not the same. And the worst one was up around 1300 psec which will very likely be audible.

Originally posted by Kevin C Brown
Digital is not digital: jitter matters.

www.jitter.de (they are selling a product, but they have the best explanation I've seen)

In one of the the latest UK mag's I read, they did a jitter test of a Denon player to a Denon receiver, and they compared the jitter levels of coax/toslink, vs i.Link vs Denon Link. The jitter levels were not the same. And the worst one was up around 1300 psec which will very likely be audible. The key there is "they are selling". In the digital world, it's a zero or a one. There is no 0.5. At these relatively slow data rates, I don't buy it. Compare these to what the phone company does on it's OC12 sonet rings and these links are slow. At slow speeds, determining if it's a one or a zero is a piece of cake. But I'm no expert, so I'll shut up. Pardon the static.

Ok guys, I know where this is headed. Start a new thread called the jitter bug.

I will say this much: I am willing to bet a lot of money that I could hook up various players via the firewire connection and nobody would be able to tell a difference in blind listening with any degree of accuracy.

The "1" or "0" *can* be offset in the time domain from the original clock creating distortion. Read up a little bit more on it. The effects can be audible if the jitter is high enough. That is fact, and listening tests with different amounts of induced jitter have been done in the past and show that.

Hmmm, the 2.45 GHz data rate of SACD is ... slow? I work in the telecom field, and I should tell my coworkers that. They would just ... chuckle.

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
this player happens to have firewire on it and then a $3500 player like, say, the Denon 5910 also has firewire...they're BOTH going to sound EXACTLY the same?

How can this be? Surely engineering and quality of components used has to come into play at some point?

well , it can. why not ?

BUT, engineering and quality of components come to play at other areas. The laser generator itself can have pickup error; the spinner itself can have rotation error; the read buffer can have memory error; the power supply can have overheat problem, earth leakage problem; the transmission can have unstable clock error; etc, etc....

So we do get what we pay for. Just that for every $1 better component we are usually paying $10 more.

Originally posted by Rob Tomlin
I will say this much: I am willing to bet a lot of money that I could hook up various players via the firewire connection and nobody would be able to tell a difference in blind listening with any degree of accuracy.

I'll take that bet if you let me choose the source material and display.

Why are we going here? Up to this point, this has been an extremely informative database for the 59AVi.

Originally posted by umr
I'll take that bet if you let me choose the source material and display.

Great!

When are you coming to Southern California?!

:p

Originally posted by Rob Tomlin
Great!

When are you coming to Southern California?!

:p

Whenever you want if the wager is high enough.

oops! I just saw you were discussing firewire audio not firewire video. I think I'll pass on that one.

Originally posted by Bluesea
Why are we going here? Up to this point, this has been an extremely informative database for the 59AVi.

On topic:

The Pioneer 59 is easily the best bang for your buck in the <$1000 tier at least. Combine it with a respectable video processor and go 480i HDMI or SDI and you're soaring with the jets.

You'd probably have to spend a considerable amount more of money to get something with appreciably better video quality than what this combination can give you. (Example: Iscan HD+ with a Pioneer 59 is killer!)

It's a time tested, well proven warrior and comes out of the box now with very little flaws, thanks to firmware updates since its release. You really can't go wrong with it if you're in the market for a solid universal player and you don't want to sell off a kidney to get quality.

What more do you need to know? ;)

Is the $800 premium on the Onkyo SP1000 worth it over the 59AVI whe nit comes to sound/video?.....

Or are any differences/advantages neglibible?....

Originally posted by dr150
Is the $800 premium on the Onkyo SP1000 worth it over the 59AVI when it comes to sound/video?.....

I thought so. ;)

If you shop around legitimately, it's a lot less than an $800 difference.

YMMV.

Yes, $800 price difference.........I can get a new SP1000 $1400 shipped vs $600 "B" stock 59AVI.......These are about the best prices out there unless I hear different.

I think sonics are very important, which is why the SP1000 sounds interesting if it lives up to the hype. But the SP1000 would have to be a marked improvement over the 59AVI, which my ignorance suggests isn't possible.

After all, I can have two 59AVIs for the price of one SP1000. The sonic differences doesn't seem compelling from everything I've read (even if it is better, as some suggest).......

Comments?........


P.S. I've also heard good things about redbook play on the Cary DVD-6 unit (for me that's more important than the dying SACD/DVDA formats)...Any comments on this player?.....

Originally posted by LEVESQUE
That's why people like Kris Deering and me are saying that the 59avi is the "ultimate" digital transport for the price.

2 reasons:

1) 480i over HDMI. You can then use the scaler you want, with the de-interlacer or scaling engine you prefer.

2) Firewire. All sound formats through 1 cable, and your pre/pro or receiver is then doing all the job (BM, TA...) where it should be done.

I thoroughly agree! Finally bought this unit last week after tiring of the wait for the Yamaha. The price point is very enticing and I managed to obtain it for a buck under the current list.

I'm glad I gave away my Zenith DVB318 dvd player. I just got tired of trying to polish a turd. Then again, you get what you pay for.

While the HDMI option is great, I finally have found a new appreciation for 5.1 analog. I'm very please to be able to play all formats of music! (SA, DVD-A, DTS)

Thanks to the actual owners of this unit and your postings. They have been very informative and a great aid during my search for a new dvd player.

Originally posted by dr150
I can get a new SP1000 $1400 shipped vs $600 "B" stock 59AVI.......These are about the best prices out there unless I hear different.

I think sonics are very important, which is why the SP1000 sounds interesting if it lives up to the hype. But the SP1000 would have to be a marked improvement over the 59AVI, which my ignorance suggests isn't possible.

After all, I can have two 59AVIs for the price of one SP1000. The sonic differences doesn't seem compelling from everything I've read (even if it is better, as some suggest).......

Comments?........

My $.02 since I owned both. In my setup the sp1000 was a marked improvement for audio over analog but YMMV. Only you can decide.

If I were looking for video only or had a better PrePro setup for audio then I would have kept the 59avi as the add'l $ would not be warranted IMO.

You may find some b stock SP1000's at Vanns.com for around $1k.

^^ Mimason said it perfectly.


Originally posted by dr150
I can get a new SP1000 $1400 shipped vs $600 "B" stock 59AVI.......These are about the best prices out there unless I hear different.

I think sonics are very important, which is why the SP1000 sounds interesting if it lives up to the hype. But the SP1000 would have to be a marked improvement over the 59AVI, which my ignorance suggests isn't possible.

After all, I can have two 59AVIs for the price of one SP1000. The sonic differences doesn't seem compelling from everything I've read (even if it is better, as some suggest).......

Comments?........


P.S. I've also heard good things about redbook play on the Cary DVD-6 unit (for me that's more important than the dying SACD/DVDA formats)...Any comments on this player?.....

I'd certainly say this: It's worth you demoing the units to find out. By my ears and many others, the Onkyo is one of the best AUDIO performers you're going to see this side of 3 grand. Areadvd, a German site, even tested the Onkyo 1000 as beating out the Denon 5910 for audio. Mimason broke that news here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=528682&pagenumber=4


They also happened to mention that the Onkyo 1000 had the best internal scaler and decoder they'd ever seen on a DVD player, and this was AFTER they had tested the P59 and Denon 5900. (Before the Denon 5910. I don't know if they've hit that one yet.)


Video? You'll see some of us disagree on this, but I'm one of several owners who felt that the video, out of the box, was appreciably better on the Onkyo 1000 over the Pioneer 59. I demoed both back in October for about 6 hours straight on an 80 inch screen with an ISF calibrated BenQ8700 and I felt I saw a signifigant PQ difference favoring the Onkyo over the P59, which was hardly a slouch by any means.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=488569&highlight=Onkyo

The 11 domestic and international reviews you'll see on the first 5 pages of this thread will tell you a very simillar story. Interesting reading.



I got the Onkyo 1000 new in November for $1447 at Vanns, when they were having this crazy sale. Onkyo almost yanked their franchise on Vanns for pulling such a stunt, but I got lucky.

I'd say, if I hadn't gotten a deal like that. there's a better than 50 percent chance that I'd be a P59 owner right now. I certainly never saw legit deals on P59's for $600 (?!!?) like you're talking about.



$600 for a P59 is an insane no-brainer. I'd be a fool to tell you not to take that immediately. You can do that and I promise you, you'll have no second guesses or doubts. WOW! You can get that P59 now for $600, save up for Iscan and maybe an SDI Mod, and you're soaring with the jets.

HOWEVER, if you can demo an Onkyo 1000 or better yet, both, I think you should just to make sure YOU are satisfied that the differences are or are not appreciable, especially on audio. The owners of the P59 can help you out from there, as I'm really trying hard not to derail their thread.

You really will win out either way. Good luck! :)

59avi, does not have absolutely the flawless scaler in there, but still it is worth or more than that for the money.

Originally posted by zoro
59avi, does not have absolutely the flawless scaler in there, but still it is worth or more than that for the money.

Absoluytely. Fantastic value for your dollar all the way around. If dr150 can get one for $600...Wow.

I wonder if and when Yamaha EVER releases the sd2500 player with almost the same features as the Pioneer 59 and an MSRP of $749 and street around $600 brand new will it give the Pioneer a run for its money?
Heck it will be the only player priced at $600-700 with firewire/HDMI etc..

Many have liked Yamahas past player the 2300mkII. I bet the build quality will not match that of Pioneer but no one can say until the Yamaha is released. By the way the latest update from Yamaha is late June/July. It was announced what 8 months ago. Come on Yamaha.

My guess is it will have MB and others issues so the Pioneer 59avi that has been out for almost 2 years now will still be the best value dvd player under $1,000 with firewire/Hdmi.

Its pretty amazing that todays electronics companies are always changing and upgrading each model, that Pioneer really has the best value for your money under $1,000 with the firewire feature. A model that has been out for 2 years. Obviously there are many players lower priced then the Pioneer but not with firewire. Why is this one feature make a players price point jump so high? There will be a day when someone releases a firewire equipped dvd player below $500. Then the debate will be if one can Hear a difference of a $500 dvd player with firewire and a $3500 dvd player using firewire.

Troy by then I think it will be HDMI do all, you wont need it!lol

Good point! firewire will be replaced by HDMI when it gets approval to carry DVD audio/sacd.

I assume the 59avi converts sacd dsd to pcm via firewire? Do all players do this? why not pass direcly dsd?

I wonder if HDMI will work the same.

Heck then the debate will be does firewire or hmdi sound better for dvd audio/sacd vs 5.1 analog and dacs in the dvd player.

Originally posted by umr
Whenever you want if the wager is high enough.

oops! I just saw you were discussing firewire audio not firewire video. I think I'll pass on that one.

Duh! :p

So I guess I don't have any takers on that bet then?!

The discussion regarding which player sounds better is a moot question if you are using the firewire connection from these players.

Originally posted by dr150
Is the $800 premium on the Onkyo SP1000 worth it over the 59AVI whe nit comes to sound/video?.....

Or are any differences/advantages neglibible?....

In my opinion.............no.

Shootout (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=484316&highlight=pioneer+denon+onkyo)

But this thread is not meant to be a comparison thread for the 59avi vs other players, so let's try to get this thread back on track.

Thanks. :)

Originally posted by Troytn

I assume the 59avi converts sacd dsd to pcm via firewire?

I don't think so unless you tell the player to convert SACD to PCM. When I play a SACD via iLink the VSX-55TXi receiver recognizes that it is playing a SACD.

I am also keeping one eye on the Onkyo when it gets tested by Secrets. I love the 59AVi, especially for the price (I got mine for $850, brand new), but I am also probably going to sit out HD-DVD/BluRay for a while, which means I could justify spending a little bit more on a std def player that I will keep for longer than I originally thought. But I have seen something about lip sync problems with the 1000... If the Secrets review comes out roses, then I'd have to see if it indeed would be justifiable to switch at this point.

The problem with the Yamaha is, most of the people that would be in the market to buy this player, have probably bought something else already because it's so late. This was the same story with the 2300. It was late vs the 47Ai and the Denon 2900. So even though it was a half decent player, I bet they just didn't sell that many of them. In fact, I remember one local dealer was "clearing them out" after it had only been out for about 6 months.

Greetings! I shall lurk no more...

I've had my P59 up and running for two days and I'm in love! I bought the P59 along with a Pio 56txi receiver to replace my slightly aged VSX-D608 and Sony D350. My 'must haves' for the pair was i.Link for SACD/DVD-A and HDMI out. So, the Pio paired up nicely. My display is a fairly dated piece as well but I'm still happy with the quality: Sony KDF32XBR250. The wife wanted to upgrade the TV, but I wanted to upgrade to 7.1 EX/ES with multichannel SACD/DVD-A first... and I won. =]

I'm so amazed at the PQ of the P59 after recalibration. MUCH MUCH cleaner picture. I'm passing audio through i.Link, which I'm certain happy with, but have a small question...

It's noted in several places that "some copywritten material" with a 96k sample rate will be down-mixed (to 48k) when using i.Link. How will I know this? I have a total of 5 SACD and DVD-A titles, all of which APPEAR to be passing the higher sample rate. When looking at the OSD, I don't see a bitrate while playing SACD/DVD-A titles unlike watching a DVD.

So, anyone know?

--JamesT

Troytn:

I have a Yamaha RX-Z9 and the 59avi and I can confirm that the i-link does in fact work with these two units. I used the i-link cable that came supplied with the 59 and it worked perfectly.

It's noted in several places that "some copywritten material" with a 96k sample rate will be down-mixed (to 48k) when using i.Link. How will I know this? I have a total of 5 SACD and DVD-A titles, all of which APPEAR to be passing the higher sample rate. When looking at the OSD, I don't see a bitrate while playing SACD/DVD-A titles unlike watching a DVD.
Your 56txi should show the sample rate when playing PCM DVD-A or DVD+Audio (PCM audio on DVD video) discs. I have a 47ai and have never seen 96K PCM "down mixed". However, I don't have a lot of discs either. But I have played both 96k PCM on DVD-A and DVD+Audio discs via i.Link. SACD (DSD) and other DVD-A encodings won't show a "rate".

larry

Lee..Thanks for response! I may just get this player. Have you compared the I-Link and the 5.1 analog outputs are far as sound quality goes? I assume using the I-link would be the best since you then use all the Yamaha's Z-9 BM and YAPO settings.

I must also convince the wife that she will see and hear a difference with the Pioneer 59avi then our current Samsung hd841. She thinks it's dvd audio sounds amazing and the picture is not bad either. I'm thinking she will see and hear a difference with the Pioneer via I-link and HDMI.

Thanks again

Troytn:

The 59avi is the first and only player I have hooked up to my Z9 that has had sacd and dvd audio capabilities so I cannot compare the high rez music with any other player. All I can tell you is that it does sound damn good! It replaced a very early generation Panasonic dvd player that didn't even have progressive scan ability and certainly not high rez music ability. It obviously does sound and look a lot better than my old player and will probably be better than the player you are currently using.

As for the i-link connection it does work, however I myself am not using it. I had it hooked up for less than a day and then I opted to use the analog connection. I most likely would be using it today if it weren't for the speakers that I am using. I have di-pole speakers as side surrounds ( Paradigm Reference studio ADP's ) and I am using large direct-firing bookshelf speakers as rear surrounds ( Paradigm Reference studio 40's ). When you use the i-link connection the multichannel high rez music automatically uses the side surrounds - there's no way to switch to be able to use the rear surrounds instead. I personally like the way the di-poles sound for movies but I really don't care for them for surround music. For the music I prefer the rear surrounds ( direct-firing ) speakers to be used. I therefore ended up having to go the analog route and hook up the surround outputs from my 59avi into the rear surround ( not side surround ) analog inputs on the Z9. I use the digital coaxial connection when I watch movies. I was a little bit pissed off at first because I had been reading so much about this new i-link connection and how great it was and now I wasn't even going to be using it but I have to tell you that the sound I am getting through analog is really impressive. Anyway, getting back to your question...... as I stated before I really didn't have the i-link hooked up for that long but if my memory serves me I did like the sound out of it. If I were using direct-firing side surrounds I would probably be using the i-link. My memory is a little fuzzy as it was several months ago that I had it hooked up but I guess I would characterize the sound as being 'fuller' out of the i-link than the analogs. Although I believe the highs are a bit cleaner and crisper out of the analog. Either way, this is the first time I have ever heard sacd and dvd-audio and I am very happy with the sound!

I don't know how much better this player is going to look and sound compared to the player your using now. All I can offer as advice is to buy it from a store that will let you return it if you are not totally happy with its performance. No matter how good the 59avi is, if your wife is anything like mine she's going to say, "that doesn't look or sound ANY different from the one you HAD! Why did you have to spend so much money!"

Anyone see the (new) Secret's report? At least in my case, time to (finally!) get an HDMI display... ;)

I just purchased the National Treasure DVD and it seems that my Pioneer AVi59 refuses to play it. I exchanged it for another one, but it still freezes on the first chapter.

Is this happenning to anyone else? Do I need a firmware upgrade? Just purchased the player a week ago, and the date on the box was Nov. /04.

Any help is appreciated.

I watched National Treasure last weekend from Netflix on my DV59AVi and had no problems. What firmware version do you have?

The firmware is Region:1 / Ver: 1.506(16) / AV1: 2.0/2.8

The funny thing is that it won't play the 1st chapter. It seems to play the others, just not the first one. I also tried it on my Sony DVD 400 Changer, and it also skips right past the first chapter and starts playing the movie on the second chapter. Funny enough, I tired my computer and my Panasonic CP-67 and the movie plays fine.

Any ideas?

OK, if you exchanged it at the same place, it's possible they have a bad batch of them. You might want to try and return it there, and buy another copy somewhere else. This is rare with DVDs, but it can happen.

Another new DV-59AVI owner here. I picked it up yesterday, along with the 56TXI AVR . My local dealer made me a very fair package deal as well! Under $1,900 for the lot, 6 months same as cash, and a sealed THX Ultimate Demo DVD for the icing on the cake. My current setup is the following.

Rotel RSP-1066 Processor (Pioneer Elite 56TXI)
Rotel RMB-1075 Amp
B&W CDM 9NT / CDM CNT / LM1 Speakers
SVS PB2+ Subwoofer
Denon DVD-2900 DVD, Zenith DVB318 (DV-59AVI)
Sony KDF-70XBR950 LCD

Firmware 506, build 11/04. I am very impressed with this player so far! I have tried 480i, 480P, 720P, & 1080i so far. I was expecting 1080i to be a slight difference over 480P. I was wrong! 720P (auto 2, not HDMI enhanced) is a VERY noticeable improvement over any of the available resolutions to my LCD. My XBR has a native resolution of 1386 X 788, so 1:1 pixel mapping is not possible without a HTPC. Needless to say, I was quite surprised at the 720 setting. The others seemed very soft to me. I am going to have to revisit the UMR tweaks on the XBR with the DVI input. I'm connecting the 59 to the XBR with a DVD cable and a Monster DVI-HDMI adapter. I have a Ilink cable handling audio duties to the 56TXI. Needless to say, this is my kind of connection! Awesome!

Build quality is top notch. The motorized tray seems to be of better quality than the 2900's. Much smoother & more fluid. The exiting discs are cool as well, nice. They could keep my coffee warm exiting the Denon.

Another BIG step up from the Denon is the way the 59 handles 4:3. The 16;9 compressed mode is MILES ahead of the 2900's UGLY 4:3 mode. I don't exactly know what the hell the Denon is doing with 4:3, but it's not good, whatever the hell it is! I am a MAJOR DVD concert junkie, and have quite a bit of 4:3. I'm one happy camper with the 59 in this regard.

Some annoying traits on the Denon are not there with the 59. When I power down with the tray open, the 59 actually closes the tray! The 2900 leaves it open. I wish I could completely dim the 59, I can with the 56TXI (as well as 2900). Time remaing is a plus as well.

The remote is a MAJOR POS! It's one of the worst I've ever had. My MX500 is handling duties now, much better.

I have spun a few titles so far.

Moulin Rouge - My jaw was sitting on the floor! I have never seen the colors POP like they did with the 59! Beautiful. I also saw ZERO lip synch problems with the DTS track. I have seen them with all the others.

I Robot - This DVD looked so 3D, better than alot of HD upconverts on TV! AMAZING!

The Incredibles - INCREDIBLE. I saw no jaggies, pulsing, or banding.

Eagles HFO - Superb

SW AOTC - As good as it's ever looked in my setup.

Pink Floyd DSOTM - WoW! The SACD over Ilink sounds insane compared to the analog 5.1's on the Denon. If I could use one word to describe it, it would be "airy". It even sounds better than my Sony SCD-C222ES. The Sony was my reference SACD machine.

Flaming Lips Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots - This is my reference DVD-A. It is evem more so now. The pinpoint surround mix here is so seamlessly integrated now. MCACC is the culprit here. I am surrounded by bliss :).

I have not tested Redbook performance yet, but plan to. I'm sure it will be excellent.

It looks like I am going to be really whittling down my stack of components. This is the ultimate holdover until HD-DVD arrives. The Denon & Zenith are going bye bye. The Rotel seperates are as well. This would be the perfect player for me if it was REGION FREE! We need a region hack. Has anyone tried the pronto hack on VCD help? I need an amp though...

Well said Patrick, Imho, difference in colors between 2910 and 59avi was watching collateral vs Moulin Rouge!..very impressive indeed!

Just watch House of Flying Daggers on your new 59avi, and see where it takes you!

I just saw some one reporting $650 new!! wow! I'll buy another one!

Originally posted by zoro


I just saw some one reporting $650 new!! wow! I'll buy another one!

New legit? ;) C'mon... :p

Originally posted by zoro
Well said Patrick, Imho, difference in colors between 2910 and 59avi was watching collateral vs Moulin Rouge!..very impressive indeed!

Just watch House of Flying Daggers on your new 59avi, and see where it takes you!

I just saw some one reporting $650 new!! wow! I'll buy another one!

I would if I could, LOL. My HOFD is the Edko 2 disk, region 3 NTSC. I haven't even seen it yet. I want to throw rocks at my Zenith, but it plays all regions. Did I say we need a region hack? WE NEED A REGION HACK.

BTW, the cost to 2 major electronics retailers (Ultimate & Tweeter) on the 59 is $619. I paid $750, well worth it. Who has it for $650? After seeing the way that Pioneer packs these inside the box, I'm glad I didn't mail order. VERY poor. I would be leery buying a refurb or Bstock as well. The finish is way too easy to blemish.

Originally posted by Patrick TX


BTW, the cost to 2 major electronics retailers (Ultimate & Tweeter) on the 59 is $619.

Incredible!

Welcome to the club of very happy 59avi owners Patrick. At the price you can get this awesome player for now, I am sure new owners are even more satisfied than those of us who thought it was an awesome player/value at $1000 or more!

For any shocked by the rating of the Pan S-97 of 91 while the DV-59AVi got 88 from Kris on Secrets, this is a perfect example of why Kris say the raw scores are only the beginning.

As I noted earlier in this thread, for displays without Macrobloking over HDMI Kris rated the DV-59AVi as #2/3 (tied with Denon 3910) and the Pan S-97 as #5, which is pretty good for a $300 player.

Why the seeming discrepancy? There is none. As Kris points out the DV-59AVi outputs 480i over HDMI making it ideal for external scalers/processors, which the S97 does not. The DV-59AVi has I-Link which the S97 does not. And, of course, the DV-59AVI has both DVD-A and SACD, while the S97 only has DVD-A. The combination of 480i over HDMI and I-Link makes the DV-59AVI argually one of the best DVD transports available.

I suppose an arguement could be made that if 1) You had no intention of EVER using an external scaler/processor; and 2) Your rec'r or pre/pro does not have I-Link and you NEVER intend to replace it, and 3) You have no interest in SACD or DVD-A (sound quality of DV-59AVI vs,S97), then the DVD-S97 is the better choice for you over the DV-59AVi, given the price difference.

Yuppers. :) The Secret's ratings are for video quality only, and specifically for how they weigh different video attributes. Doesn't include audio at all, and doesn't include "features" like SACD, DVD-A, HDMI 480i, build quality, reliability, i-Link, not passing below black when converting from HDMI to DVI, etc. In fact, I'm not sure he downgrades a player for having macroblocking either.

After lurking awhile I've decided to buy a P59, but need some advice first. I'll be using it primarily as a transport to pass 480i over HDMI to a processor. BUT -- how significant is the build date and firmware version? I've searched this thread, and there doesn't seem to be a consensus as to specific differences between firmware. My local B&M has one unit in stock, but its' build date is October 2004. Should I hold out for a unit built Jan05 or later?

Thanks in advance for any input!

No, a build date of October 2004 is perfectly fine, as they have the latest firmware.

And I am sure you will be very pleased with the Elite>Processor>Qualia combo! :)

Originally posted by Rob Tomlin
No, a build date of October 2004 is perfectly fine, as they have the latest firmware. And I am sure you will be very pleased with the Elite>Processor>Qualia combo! :)
Thanks, Rob! Now, if I can just get Algolith to rush me that Dragonfly...

Wow, sounds like an awesome setup you have going there! Congrats!

Originally posted by Rob Tomlin
Wow, sounds like an awesome setup you have going there! Congrats! Thanks; can't wait to get the P59 into my system (and pull the Sony 975 out)...

Hi,

Anyone try the new REM DVDs on a 59AVI? I have an older Pioneer (universal player)that won't play these disks in DD surround. I'd like to get the 59avi but would like to make sure that there are not any compatability problems. By the way, I also have an ancient (7yrs) old sony DVD player that plays these disks fine.

Thanks to anyone who can help.

Greg

Many thanks to everyone on this thread for giving me the information to make an informed purchase. I just posted this on the Qualia 006 owner's thread, and thought it might be good to list it here as well...

Originally posted by Penton-Man
I’m glad you decided to go for it. Rob knows his stuff regarding the 59avi. If you get a chance, try to do an A/B (best to rent two copies of the same DVD and toggle the inputs) between the Sony and Pio on inputs 6 and 7 before you return it.

I pulled the Sony and dropped the Pioneer into it's place. No time yet to do a direct A/B, but here are my first impressions after spending about an hour eyeballing the basic settings. This was done with "The Fifth Element", as I know the film backwards and forwards and use it often as a reference. As with the Sony 975, I'm feeding the Pioneer signal into my Qualia 006 at 480i over HDMI.

First, the Pio has slightly exaggerated color saturation as set at the factory. I turned "chroma" down one click, which seemed to fix things nicely. Once I have time I'll go back and change the settings on this input of the Qualia to compensate more accurately.

Second, though the Pio didn't initially seem to have more fine detail resolution than the Sony, certain things are more noticeable on the Pioneer. In "The Fifth Element" (in the desert at the beginning) there are some shots of the sky that really show every flaw in the film master. These really seem to jump out on the Pioneer. This is somewhat analagous to the resolving power of the Qualia (though not to the same degree), where you tend to see every little flaw inherent in the source material. One test for me is the Nucleo Lab scene in "The Fifth Element". General Munro appears several times in this scene, and one great test for resolving power is to look at his shoulder patch. If "sharpness" is too elevated you'll actually lose detail in the patch. On the Pioneer I can read the letters on the patch more easily than on the Sony.

I am happier with the Pioneer in my system. Though the improvement so far is slight it is much more enjoyable to use, much nicer to look at in my "stack", and beautifully built and reliable. It should be a formidable piece when paired with the Algolith Dragonfly/Mosquito combo (and once I have the time to properly tweak things with DVE)...

Finally, guess what happened when I pulled the Sony out of my system? The dreaded tray lock reared it's ugly head (for the first time) and I nearly lost my newly acquired "Big Fish" DVD! After cycling the power several times the player finally regurgitated, but that alone may be reason enough for me NOT to put it back into the system for an A/B...

Is the Pioneer 59AVI's sound refined enough to compete against a great stand-alone $1k CD player with CD's?

Or does it lag in this department along with most DVD players?.......

When doing the test tone thing in speakers setting, do you guys hear anything coming out of the subwoofer? I can hear the tone out of my other 5 channels, but not the subwoofer. I am sure I've connected 6 cables to the amp. FL, FR, C, SW, SL, SR. Any clue?

I don't know about the 59AVi, but the 47Ai's sub test tone was too low to be useful. I use test discs with the 59AVi.

Originally posted by Kevin C Brown
I don't know about the 59AVi, but the 47Ai's sub test tone was too low to be useful. I use test discs with the 59AVi.

Ah.....ok, thanks. I turned the volume really high on my amp and I can hear a really low sound coming out from the SW.

I just picked this player up. Tired of waiting for the Yamaha sd2500. What an amazing picture! The I-link rocks as well.

A couple of questions:

I only have the I-link hooked up for sound. I wanted to try the Legato/high bit feature for regular CD's. To utilize this do I need to send the CD signal via analog or coax/optical? I know it does not work via I-link.

Is there an easy way to turn off I-link output and use the 5.1 analog output on the fly? I cannot get the Pioneer to out 5.1 over analog. It always defaults to I-link.

I wanted to compare sound quality of I-link vs analog 5.1.

Thanks

Somewhere in the menus is a place to turn i.Link off.

I hooked up my new 59 last night and all I can say is WOW!!! A huge improvement over my Arcam DV78 on the video side. I don't mean a sit there for a while watching a movie and then deciding it was better better, I mean an eye popping 100% improvement. Crystal clear HD-like images through component video into my XBR960. When I received the player I immediately noticed how heavy it was so I did what every good HTphile does, I started taking it apart! This player is EXTREMELY well built. It has a beefed-up power supply, all of the boards are well layed out and separated from each other. The DVD drive is a beauty to behold, I can see why so many high-end companies use this player as an OEM. Now for my questions: Based on the latest Secret's review of this player I plan on purchasing an HDMI cable and going direct from the 59 to my 960. What sort of HDMI cable should I buy, an el cheapo from Ebay or a more expensive one from, say, bettercables.com? Has anyone done comparisons between generic cables and higher quality cables?
Thanks.

PS Build date of March 2005

Has anyone here matched the 59 AVi with one of the Pio Elite plasmas??
I wonder if the Pure Cinema works well in tandem.

Randu

Well I figured out my analog connection and it was my Yamaha only looking for the I-link connection. Anyway I was able to compare the 5.1 analog outputs and the firewire connection to my Yamaha RX-Z9.

Let me tell you what FIREWIRE ROCKS! It gives a more open air sound to music. More details to movie soundtracks.

A firewire connection in itself for me was worth every $700 shipped I got this player for. March 2005 build. The picture quality is amazing compared to my old Samsung Hd841. My wife even asked if this was one of the new HD dvd players I spoke about coming. I told her of course those players are not until 4th quartar Maybe. Heck with this picture quality and full firewire connection for my extensive SACD/DVD Audio catalog who needs Hd dvd....

A great player at an amazing price. Yes $700 including shipping is from the net with no warranty from Pioneer but hey its a Pioneer. My first Pioneer product by the way. For another $50 I can still get a 4 year warranty from the internet company.

The only thing I have not got to work is the upsampling of redbook cd's. My Yamaha always shows 44.1k sample rate when I play regular CD's via the analog and coax output. The manual for the Pioneer only states the upsampling does not work on the I-link connection.
Can anyone confirm they have gotten regular CD's to upsample and is their a notice in sound quality difference and what output does it work on?

Heck my firewire connection is so amazing it will take me awhile to listen to my entire catalog of titles again. I'm hearing so many new things in my high Rez recordings over firewire that I never heard over the 5.1 analog outputs.

Now how my Yamaha Z-9's DACS via firewire compare to the Pioneer Dacs 5.1 analog outputs I do not know how they compare on paper. can anyone compare the 2 DACs? Are they the same quality?

Pure DSD and DVD audio is truely what these formats need to be heard in. I just hope these formats do not go away to soon. The price of firewire equipment is coming down each quarter on new products that more and more people can enjoy the benefits. Heck I'm sure these formats over HMDI should be right around the corner.

Anyway. A top notch player and well worth every penny.

Nice post Troy.

Always good to see another happy Elite owner!

Hey Welly, check your PM.

Nice thing about this pioneer unit is that it doesn't sound as fatigue as many other dvd players do but I wouldn't put against some $2000 cd players. I found it to be a very good transport for my external DAC though.
Welly Wu I've heard sony XA777ES modded by Dan it was quite impressive. Unforunately Dan is no longer offers mods for Pioneer's. Considering the quality of the transport in its stock form it should be a pretty good base for modification.

Has anyone here matched the 59 AVi with one of the Pio Elite plasmas??
I wonder if the Pure Cinema works well in tandem.


I've got the 59Avi linked to my Pio Elite 1110HD via HDMI. The Pio has three PureCinema settings (off, standard and advanced) and the 59Avi four (off, on, Auto1, Auto2). For the display, standard is basically 3:2 pulldown and advanced is 3:3 pulldown (the screen refresh rate increases to 72 Hz = 24 fps x 3).

As a result, there are twelve combinations of display and player purecinema (off + off, off + on, off + auto1, etc.). I've tried every single combo, and to be honest, there ain't much of a difference between the various settings. Secrets of Home Theater recommend the Auto2 setting, so I set the 59Avi to this. I leave the display in Adv because of the higher refresh rate (72 Hz) which in *theory* should provide a more stable image, but I have a hard time seeting it, to be honest!

Ross

Has anyone done comparisons between generic cables and higher quality cables?


For 16 months I've been using $90 HDMI cables by Geffen to connect my 59Avi to my Pio plasma. I haven't tried other cables, but I suspect you won't see a stich of a difference simply because HDMI can handle up to 5 gigabits of data and the bit rates coming out of the 59Avi are a fraction of that. Hence, in order for a cable to call itself "HDMI" it has to be good enough to handle those ulta-wide 5 gigabit bandwidths, so I can't see how today's DVD material (even upsampled to 1080i) will challenge the quality of any HDMI cable.

Ross

Thanks everyone for the advice. I'm going to purchase the Ram electronics cable.

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/dvdplayers/904pioneer/

Here's a review of the DV59 by TJN that some might not have seen. "This is one of the best DVD players on the market, regardless of price". If you click on DVD Player reviews and go to the Denon 5900 review, you'll see that TJN compared the 5900 to the DV59 and the DV59 came out on top in terms of audio performance. I realize that Denon has now replaced the 00 series with the 10 series and that Pioneer recently upgraded the firmware of the 59 but these reviews are a good standard for those still deciding between the two brands.

Thanks Ross
I knew there had to be someone out there with this combo
I guess I'll be joining the club pretty quick.. I'll be the Western US chapter!

Randu

PS: I'd love to see Secrets run this combo and see which settings pair up best.

Hello, I purchased a B-stock 59Avi locally ($600). I've spent the last 3+ weeks reading every page of this thread. Thanks for all who have posted. We also recently purchase a Toshisha MT700 (native 1280x720) projector connected to the 59Avi via BetterCables HDMI cable (26' length). We currently have the player output 720p via HDMI. Between these two pieces our HT is at a level we've never experience before. I do have a question for the more experienced people out there.

If the 59Avi can output 720p and some of you have 720p capable displays (like the Qualia 006 in a recent post), can some tell me why you would want to output 480i or any lower resolution?

Sorry for my ignorance but all this is so new to me.

If the 59Avi can output 720p and some of you have 720p capable displays (like the Qualia 006 in a recent post), can some tell me why you would want to output 480i or any lower resolution?



Generally speaking, you want to feed your display its native resolution as that signal will undergo the least amount of processing in the display. However, there are cases in which the processing and scaling in the display may be better or provide better results than letting the player scale the DVD source.

Also for external video scalers, you want to feed them the cleanest, unaltered 480i signal so that they can use their processing to get the resolution you want.

Basically, you want to experiment a bit and see which scaler/processing at a given resolution provides you with the best image for your display.

If the 59Avi can output 720p and some of you have 720p capable displays (like the Qualia 006 in a recent post), can some tell me why you would want to output 480i or any lower resolution?

Sorry for my ignorance but all this is so new to me.

Actually the Qualia is a 1080p display.

If the 59Avi can output 720p and some of you have 720p capable displays (like the Qualia 006 in a recent post), can some tell me why you would want to output 480i or any lower resolution?


Building on what UMD_Terp said, the DVD material is encoded on the disc in 480i format, hence some "purists" prefer to use the DVD player to just get the images, unsullied, on to their mega-fancy scalers.

Interestingly, however, the scalers in HD-capable displays (for example, my Pio plasma) are geared towards displaying as good an HD image as possible. Because HD is in 720p and 1080i format, a lot of effort is put into the display's internal scalers for converting these formats to a very eye-pleasing result. For fixed-pixel displays (e.g., plasma, LCD), there is a native resolution which often is neither 720 nor 1080 (my display has 768 lines).

What I'm driving towards is I have found the 720p and 1080i outputs from the 59Avi look much better on my 768-line Pio display than the "native" 480i. I have attributed this to a suspicion that the Pio engineers put a lot of effort into their 720 --> 768 and 1080 --> 768 scalers on the plamsa, and somewhat less into the 480 --> 768 scaler. The (same?) Pio engeers, however, made the 480 --> 720 and 480 --> 1080 upconverting scalers on the 59Avi very, very good. Hence, the optimal conversion path (I have found through the all-powerful Wife Eyeball Test) is 480 --> 1080 on the 59Avi and 1080 --> 768 native on the Pio display (using 720p instead of 1080i produces a virtually identical result). This is via HDMI, of course.

Ross

Thanks for all who replied.

I too have found (so far) that we prefer 720p over the 1080i with player/projector combo. I haven't done any thing fancy yet. Waiting to get a DVE or Avia disc before going down that path. Hopefully I'll gain a better understanding of all the RGB adjustments before I do too much.

Again, awesome thread by a lot of knowledgeable people. Thanks all.

nm

Can the 59 remember DVD's and how do I set up this feature?

Search this thread for "disc memory" for a bunch of posts where we tried to get the disc memory to work.

Doug

I tried it on To Have and Have Not last night, and it did work. However, it takes a lot of steps, when you reinsert the disc it automatically starts playing instead of waiting for you to choose Play, it goes to the beginning of the chapter and not the moment you paused, and finally: it plays back the memorized chapter and then stops!

In short, it's much more trouble than its worth. I agree, why would a cheap player like my old Sony have a feature like this, but not the Elite? It seems like it would be easy technically. The player simply memorizes the last stopped or paused location for any particular disc. I guess the answer can be found in this thread: most people never use it.

Doug

I'm in your camp Doug.

The auto resume feature would be GREAT!! I hope a firmware release cures this.

My old Philips SACD1000 had this feature and was surprised how much I really missed it when my 5 year old p.o.s. Toshiba had to be put back into service after my Philips crapped out to player heaven. :(

Are you guys talking about removing the DVD from the player, then reinserting it and having it play where it left off?

Otherwise, my Elite definitely will start playing where it left off the night before (or when last played) as long as you don't remove the DVD from the player.

Rob, there are players out there that will remember where you left off on up to, say, ten disks. For example I could be watching my copy of "The Aviator", stop it half-way through and pop in a rented version of "The Life Aquatic", then after I watch "The Life Aquatic" I could put "The Aviator" back in and it would start from the point I left off. A lot of players out there have this feature and I for one would use it a lot just as I described. Obviously it wasn't a deal breaker for me as I purchased the 59 anyway, but it would be nice to have this feature.

I just ordered my new 59avi and am awaiting arrival. One quick question: Can you adjust ALL video controls via HDMI? My 2910 does not let me adjust Gamma, both sharpness controls, and something else that I cannot remember. Those are only for component.

I am hoping the 59 lets me do all of it.

Jeff

I just ordered my new 59avi and am awaiting arrival. One quick question: Can you adjust ALL video controls via HDMI? My 2910 does not let me adjust Gamma, both sharpness controls, and something else that I cannot remember. Those are only for component.

I am hoping the 59 lets me do all of it.

Jeff


you can adjust all those video controls via HDMI...

Very good.

Jeff

Sorry if this was asked and answered elsewhere in this thread, but glancing through I didn't see it.

How is the Bass Management on the 59AVi? I have a DV-47A, and it won't let you select "small" on the speaker mains. Consequently when listening to Stereo SACD audio or any 2-channel audio that uses the discrete outputs, the subwoofer channel is muted. Really crappy bass management IMO. :mad:

I asked similar question a while ago in one of the threads & I was told that 59AVi has bass management & crossover is set at 80Hz. Hopefully somebody can confirm that as the manual is very poor in this regard.

Sorry if this was asked and answered elsewhere in this thread, but glancing through I didn't see it.

How is the Bass Management on the 59AVi? I have a DV-47A, and it won't let you select "small" on the speaker mains. Consequently when listening to Stereo SACD audio or any 2-channel audio that uses the discrete outputs, the subwoofer channel is muted. Really crappy bass management IMO. :mad:

Try "stopping" the cd/dvd or better take it out; and then go to the menu; the setting/s you are after should be available for you to use.

Ritesh

Try "stopping" the cd/dvd or better take it out; and then go to the menu; the setting/s you are after should be available for you to use.

Ritesh

Please don't take this wrong; But what are you talking about?

The 59AVi does indeed have BM for SACD and DVD-A. I have also heard the 80 Hz number for the crossover as very likely, but never confirmed.

I am trying to connect with a hdmi-dvi cable. I have access to the onscreen menus this way, but the hdmi option is greyed out. No video is seen from DVD's.
Any suggestions as to why I can see the onscreen commands but not the dvd's themselves. The front display hdmi light does not light up.


The cable I was using was bad. changed the cable, everything works great.

I am trying to connect with a hdmi-dvi cable. I have access to the onscreen menus this way, but the hdmi option is greyed out. No video is seen from DVD's.
Any suggestions as to why I can see the onscreen commands but not the dvd's themselves. The front display hdmi light does not light up.

Thanks

What display are you using? Is it HDCP compliant?

has anyone successfully used dual discs in the 59? It sounds like Pioneer isn't fully supportive of this technology yet.

Please don't take this wrong; But what are you talking about?

You said one of menu/s that you were trying to access was greyed out.... I suspect it is because you were trying to access that menu when some disk must still be in the disk drive and possibly playing.

I merely suggested you should first press the "stop" button to stop the disk. Or better take the disk out. This, I believe, will enable all the menus and will allow you to change them as you wish; which is what you were trying to achieve.

Hope this explains it better,

Ritesh

I am trying to connect with a hdmi-dvi cable. I have access to the onscreen menus this way, but the hdmi option is greyed out. No video is seen from DVD's.
Any suggestions as to why I can see the onscreen commands but not the dvd's themselves. The front display hdmi light does not light up.


The cable I was using was bad. changed the cable, everything works great.


See my recent post/s about ensuring there are no disks playing when you are trying to access the menu system.

If a particular menu option is greyed out; firstly ensure that there are no disks playing; or better taken the disk out. AND then try to access the same menu.

If that still doesn't work; I'd try to ensure that the cables are securely plugged in. AND would try any option for the corresponding inputs on the TV.

Many TVs have certain options for DVI and other inputs; ensure that they are set properly. As an example, my Hitachi has the option to set the DVI to be either "DVI-STB" or "DVI-PC"; if your display has similar options try to toggle between them.

Lastly, in the HDMI settings for the Pioneer player; ensure you are sending a resolution that your TV can handle; as an example if your TV cannot handle, say 1080i; no point trying to send it that.....

These are all the suggestions that I have now....

Hope it helps,

Ritesh

I have the NIN DualDisc. Plays fine. I personally don't like the format, but in this case there is no DVD-A or SACD version.

Does anybody knows where to get a TECHNICAL User manual for the 59 (or the european 868 which is the same) which describe without being patronising (like the one I got with the unit does) all the options in the menus ?

One example: HDMI Details (what does this mean a part from "the details when viewing HDMI" ?
another example : Auto 1, Auto 2, On, Off (can I have a description of the algorithm used to deinterlace) ? Is only the deinterlacing affected ? which one is cadence, which one is looking to flags?
last example: video mode : Direct, memory1, memory2, etc. What is direct ? Is this equivalent to memory1 with all set to default ? What about the pure-cinema thingy when in "direct".

I'm reaaally annoyed by the low quality of these manuals which treat the user like an idiot.

Anyway stop complaining. Has anybody a documen/service/manual/white paper/tech spec which describes in details all these ?

Thanks in advance.

PS I have the same problem with my new H78 projector where I'm provided a RS232 IF and a cable but I'm not told what is for ....

I believe the only Manual you can get is the Repair Manual from Pioneer. Some of these Manuals have descriptions of the circuits and how they work. Most don't. They just give disassembly, technical tests, and part numbers. Usually they don't cost that much so it might be worth a try.

I believe the only Manual you can get is the Repair Manual from Pioneer. Some of these Manuals have descriptions of the circuits and how they work. Most don't. They just give disassembly, technical tests, and part numbers. Usually they don't cost that much so it might be worth a try.

Is it for sale somewhere you could kindly point me to ?

TIA

I have the DV-45a service manual. It certainly doesn't give you any more detailed *operating* instructions than the plain user's manual. I bought mine just to trace how the signal gets routed for various types of input.

You buy these manuals direct from Pioneer. On their website, look up a parts list for your model #, it's usually on there. Otherwise call them.

But most of your questions would be better answered by just emailing them to Pionneer tech support.

I am having a tough time accessing menus for DVD-Audios. I have a 59avi connected directly to a JVC HX1 via HDMI/DVI for video and to an HK7300 via 5.1 analog for audio.

I can't get the DVD-Audio menus to show, unless I go into the 59avi menus and change the DVD setiing to video from audio. Then, the menus show, but on Hotel California, for example, only the DD and DTS options are available...no 5.1 or stereo hi-rez.

What am I doing wrong?!? Should the DVD setting be set to DVD-A or DVD-V?

Thanks,
James

I can't get the DVD-Audio menus to show, unless I go into the 59avi menus and change the DVD setiing to video from audio. Then, the menus show, but on Hotel California, for example, only the DD and DTS options are available...no 5.1 or stereo hi-rez.


I'm using the same configuration (same projector), but I'm also running a composite cable out from the 59avi to my pre/pro and then to a small 7" LCD screen at my listening position, to avoid opening the projector for nothing. That way, I have access to the the menu on the small LCD screen when listening to a DVD-A or SACD.

Suprfly2k,
It is my understanding that DVD-A menus will not show via HDMI. I have my 59 hooked up HDMI and component and I have switch to component on my monitor to view DVD-A menus.

I have confirmed that this is, in fact, the case. I included a component connection, and I am in business.

As a side note, I compared the various flavors of component to the various flavors of HDMI on my W. Phelps calibrated PJ, and I prefer both the colors and quality of the HDMI connection more.

BTW, how many of you are using 1:1 pixel mapping?

James

I have an HK7300 receiver that allows for two 6-channel inputs: one that is direct, that is, no bass management is done by the receiver and the signal from the 59avi just passes directly to the volume control. And the second takes the analog signal from the DVD player, converts it to digital and applies very comprehensive bass-management (in my case, 30 HZ FL/R, and 80 everywhere else, including LFE).

The 59avi has only two options: large and small. I have two questions. First, since so much is made about the "analog" signal of SACD and DVD-A, am I negating some of the advantage by letting my receiver convert the signal to digital and applying BM? Second, if I decide to let me receiver do the BM, how do I handle the BM on the DVD player? Large, small, or ignore it?

James

As a side note, I compared the various flavors of component to the various flavors of HDMI on my W. Phelps calibrated PJ, and I prefer both the colors and quality of the HDMI connection more.

BTW, how many of you are using 1:1 pixel mapping?


Same here. The HDMI connection is superior to the component connection. But like William said, there is no HDMI/DVI player on the market now that is not using filters and other gimmicks even on the digital video connection. The only "pure" signal is still SDI.

I'm not doing a 1:1 pixel map with my 59avi, but instead using the full panel resolution of the HX1U at 1400X788 with a DVDO IScan HD+. With the 59avi alone, you are sending either a 720p signal that is then scale again (double scaling) at 1400X788 by the internal scaler of the projector if using the "Panel" setting, or using only a fraction of the panel if using the "1:1" setting (720p then) . The difference is minor, but I can clearly see it.

But both configurations are pretty good on the HX1U.

Suprfly2k,
It is my understanding that DVD-A menus will not show via HDMI. I have my 59 hooked up HDMI and component and I have switch to component on my monitor to view DVD-A menus.

I'm getting all my DVD-A menus with the HDMI connection. I'm using an HDMI-DVI cable to a XBR950 LCD. Audio is I-link to a 56TXI.

I hooked up my HDMI cable from the 59 to my XBR960 and the picture looks terrible. It has a heavy red push. Compared to component cables, well..there is no comparison. Component is clean and bright. HDMI is wacked. I don't get it, I'm more curious than anything about why there would be such a huge difference. Any suggestions?

First, since so much is made about the "analog" signal of SACD and DVD-A, am I negating some of the advantage by letting my receiver convert the signal to digital and applying BM? Yes. However, I personally think the improvement of a good multichannel mix over a good stereo mix is a much bigger deal than the sound quality differences between CD and DVD-A/SACD. So putting a 24/96 conversion in there isn't the end of the world, IMO. I also used to "stress" about all the BM issues. But what I found that works the best for me and my setup, is no BM at all for DVD-A and SACD. I still do use it for CD and DVD-V, but DVD-A and SACD for me is mostly music, and most "music" does not have a lot of content below 40 Hz.

Second, if I decide to let me receiver do the BM, how do I handle the BM on the DVD player? All large, sub on. You want full range signals from the player to the receiver if the receiver is going to do the BM.

OK. I've had my new 59avi connected to the 7700 projector for a couple of days now. At first I was not that impressed (I've been using Denon 2910) as the picture was much too noisy. As it truned out, I had things set up to sharp and trying to milk to much detail. There are so many combnations of sharpness/detail/NR settings that it took a while to find the right combo.

What I seem to have settled on was higher detail with HDMI DETAIL setting and everything else low (or lower). NR filters are mid low. With a good DVD (AOTC, for example) it looks better that alot of high def signals I've seen. LOTS of detail and a clean, solid, flicker free image. If I look hard enough I can still see compression artifacts, but certainly not Macro Blocking type.

Oh yea, I do not have much of an ear, but DVD-A blows away the 2910 enough for me to really notice. Very good. Bought it brand new (not refurb) online for $669, $10 less than I paid for the 2910 last fall.

Jeff

All large, sub on. You want full range signals from the player to the receiver if the receiver is going to do the BM.

I agree. If you want BM, do it in one unit or the other, not both. The more fiddling with the signal, the more likely that the quality will be degraded, IMO.

It seems to me that, if 59 decodes the signal to analog, you'd want it to do the BM, but if you send the digital signal to the amp, let the amp decode and do the BM. I guess you can let your ears decide which you prefer.

I don't do any BM, but I have towers with pretty good low frequency response (KEF Q11). So, I let the mix play unsullied (e.g. 2-channel SACD or RBCD through only the 2 mains; 3.0, 4.0, 5.0 or 5.1 SACD or DVD-A or DVD-V exactly as mixed).

Doug

I just got off the phone with Pioneer tech support and inquired about the cross-over frequency for their large and small settings on the 59avi. He told me that the "computer says" that the crossover frequency for the large setting is 100hz and for small it is 80hz. That seemed backwards to me, so I asked him to confirm it. He did. I told him that sounded wrong and he replied that he would "send it back to Japan and see what they say."


dougotte, you must do some sort of BM, don't you? Aren't you required to define in the settings whether you have large or small speakers and whether you use a sub-woofer? I think that is all BM.

I just got off the phone with Pioneer tech support and inquired about the cross-over frequency for their large and small settings on the 59avi. He told me that the "computer says" that the crossover frequency for the large setting is 100hz and for small it is 80hz. That seemed backwards to me, so I asked him to confirm it. He did. I told him that sounded wrong and he replied that he would "send it back to Japan and see what they say."


dougotte, you must do some sort of BM, don't you? Aren't you required to define in the settings whether you have large or small speakers and whether you use a sub-woofer? I think that is all BM.

Suprfly, I agree that the answer they gave you doesn't make sense at all. But, if speakers are set to large, there wouldn't be any crossover frequency, or am I wrong (I have been on many occasions - ask my wife!)? With speakers set to large, the 59 should be sending the channels to the amp as they are encoded on the software (e.g. a 2=channel SACD is just sent to the 2 mains).

Anyway, I always interpreted BM as asking the unit to re-route some of the signal. If I don't have anything re-routed, am I managing the bass by default? Again, I might be interpreting the term incorrectly, but I hope this clarifies what I mean. Maybe we can coin a new term: laissez-faire bass management.
;)
Doug

... But, if speakers are set to large, there wouldn't be any crossover frequency, or am I wrong Doug


You are right Doug. This is like the BM of my receiver (and any other I'm aware of)works so the reply from Pioneer does not make any sense.

Doug,

I'd be interested in what others have to say. That makes sense: large - all frequencies go to the speakers; small - all frequency above, say 100hz, goes to the speakers, below that goes to the sub.

If you have all speakers set to large and sub set to on, what frequency goes to the sub?

My AVR takes it a step further. I define all of the speakers as large or small and then also set an independant cross-over for each speaker (40-120hz at 20 hz increments). If you can do that, why would it even ask you to define each speaker as large or small?

James

If you have all speakers set to large and sub set to on, what frequency goes to the sub?
James

It's not quite as simple as you think :)

Everything in the LFE (or .1) channel gets sent to the Sub when the speakers are set to large. If there is nothing in that channel - no sounds from Sub.

When speakers are set to small, anything below the crossover frequency (of each speaker set to small) is summed with the LFE channel and sent to the Sub.

At least that is how it is supposed to work ;)

If your receiver or pre/pro can do BM and time delays, then in the 59avi menu you should put all speakers to large and sub=on, and all distances at the same value (let say 10 feet for each speakers and sub, even if it's not the real distances) .

So that way, the receiver or pre/pro will receive an "untouch" signal and will then process it the way you want it for your particular speaker set-up.

That's what I'm doing with my Anthem D1.

Levesque,

That's what I am doing, now.

Paul,

You touched on one of my questions. If all of the speakers are set to large, you implied that all frequencies (other than LFE) are sent to the speakers. Then why would you need to additionally set a crossover frequency? I guess my point is, if one is able to set a specific crossover frequency for all seven speakers individually, why does it matter if the speakers are defined as large or small?

James

If all of the speakers are set to large, you implied that all frequencies (other than LFE) are sent to the speakers. Then why would you need to additionally set a crossover frequency? I guess my point is, if one is able to set a specific crossover frequency for all seven speakers individually, why does it matter if the speakers are defined as large or small?

My AVR takes it a step further. I define all of the speakers as large or small and then also set an independant cross-over for each speaker

James

Your receiver 'should' ignore any crossovers set if you set the speakers to large. Bass Management should route 'all' frequencies to any speaker defined as large. If a speaker is set to small, the crossover will be in effect, and as I stated before, any frequencies below the crossover will be summed with the LFE channel and sent to the sub.

It may be that the menu of your AVR still gives you the option to set a crossover point even if you have set speakers to large - that doesn't mean they will be in effect - it would not make any sense, as you have said.

Great explanation. Thanks.

Some AVRs allow you to specify a large speaker setting and a crossover as well. In this case, you may be able to set your sub to a PLUS setting to send frequencies below the crossover to both the sub and the large speakers... my 56txi AVR allows this. Of course any speaker set to small will only receive the frequencies above the crossover.

The plus setting may or may not sound good... it depends on how your sub and main speakers match up to fill in the low end frequencies.

If your receiver or pre/pro can do BM and time delays, then in the 59avi menu you should put all speakers to large and sub=on, and all distances at the same value (let say 10 feet for each speakers and sub, even if it's not the real distances) .

Not sure if it's the same in the 59avi, but with the Pioneer DV-45a, in addition to the above, you might also consider setting speaker levels to 'Variable' and then set the levels to 0 dB trim/boost. While transferring some hi-rez discs to digital for portable use (i.e., capturing and redigitizing the line-level 2-channel analog output as 32/88.2 and then dithering/downsampling to 16/44.1) I found to my dismay that if you set the player's speaker levels to 'fixed' (which sets all channels at +6 dB) the output actually *clips* on many tracks: The waveforms have peaks that have been 'shaved' flat. Setting the speaker level to variable/0 restores the natural waveform peaks, with full dynamic range.

Does the 59AVI do:
1.) JPEG
2.) MP3 on DVD-R/+R

Some AVRs allow you to specify a large speaker setting and a crossover as well. In this case, you may be able to set your sub to a PLUS setting to send frequencies below the crossover to both the sub and the large speakers... my 56txi AVR allows this. Of course any speaker set to small will only receive the frequencies above the crossover.

The plus setting may or may not sound good... it depends on how your sub and main speakers match up to fill in the low end frequencies.

I can't find the way to set my 56TXI to plus in the menu. Right now I'm running SMALL + Sub. My DVD is a 59AVI over I-link.

I can't find the way to set my 56TXI to plus in the menu. Right now I'm running SMALL + Sub. My DVD is a 59AVI over I-link.


Under the surround setup menu, you must configure your main speakers as LARGE and then set SUB to PLUS instead of YES. This will send the contents below the crossover to the sub and to the main speakers as well.

Thanks UMD. Here are my speakers specs. Would you run them large or small. I also have an SVS PB2+


B&W CDM 9NT: frequency response 38 Hz - 25 kHz (± 3 dB) and 30 Hz - 30 kHz (± 6 dB), nominal impedance 8 ohms (3.0 ohms minimum), sensitivity 90 dB (2.83V, 1meter), crossover frequencies 350 Hz and 4 kHz, nominal power handling 50-200 Watts, dimensions 39.4 in (H) x 8.7 in (W) x 12.4 in (D) or 1000 mm (H) x 220 mm (W) x 315 mm (D), 58 pounds (26.5 kg).

B&W CDM CNT: frequency response 50 Hz - 25 kHz (± 3 dB) and 46 Hz - 30 kHz (± 6 dB), nominal impedance 8 ohms (4.6 ohms minimum), sensitivity 91 dB (2.83V, 1meter), crossover frequency 4 kHz, nominal power handling 50-120 Watts, dimensions 11.8 in (H) x 18.1 in (W) x 11.4 in (D) or 300 mm (H) x 460 mm (W) x 290 mm (D), 30 pounds (13.5 kg).

Thanks UMD. Here are my speakers specs. Would you run them large or small. I also have an SVS PB2+


B&W CDM 9NT: frequency response 38 Hz - 25 kHz (± 3 dB) and 30 Hz - 30 kHz (± 6 dB), nominal impedance 8 ohms (3.0 ohms minimum), sensitivity 90 dB (2.83V, 1meter), crossover frequencies 350 Hz and 4 kHz, nominal power handling 50-200 Watts, dimensions 39.4 in (H) x 8.7 in (W) x 12.4 in (D) or 1000 mm (H) x 220 mm (W) x 315 mm (D), 58 pounds (26.5 kg).

B&W CDM CNT: frequency response 50 Hz - 25 kHz (± 3 dB) and 46 Hz - 30 kHz (± 6 dB), nominal impedance 8 ohms (4.6 ohms minimum), sensitivity 91 dB (2.83V, 1meter), crossover frequency 4 kHz, nominal power handling 50-120 Watts, dimensions 11.8 in (H) x 18.1 in (W) x 11.4 in (D) or 300 mm (H) x 460 mm (W) x 290 mm (D), 30 pounds (13.5 kg).


I'd run them small and cross them over at 80Hz. You can experiment to see how running them as large and setting the sub to PLUS sounds. It may give you better bass response, but could also kill it depending on your room and how the phase of your main speakers matches up with the sub output. Experimentation is the only way to find out.

I have Energy C-9s as my mains and they are spec'd to go down 3dB at 31Hz... I can tell that I get more bass with the PLUS setting, but I doubt that the frequency response is flat with it...

Some AVRs allow you to specify a large speaker setting and a crossover as well. In this case, you may be able to set your sub to a PLUS setting to send frequencies below the crossover to both the sub and the large speakers... my 56txi AVR allows this. Of course any speaker set to small will only receive the frequencies above the crossover.

The plus setting may or may not sound good... it depends on how your sub and main speakers match up to fill in the low end frequencies.


I too have a VSX56TXi and you can only set the crossover for LFE while leaving the speakers at Large. . . Say you crossed over at 50hz then any LFE above that would go to your front mains. . .

I find that with my SVS 12 plus/2 sub and all my 6 other speakers at "small" (80hz) works best for me. I run the sub at 4dB hotter than the satelites, some movies like 6dB but in the end it requires less power from the receiver and sounds great. All my speakers are full range (JBL E100s) except the center and actually I hate them, way too much mud. . . I am in process of selling them all and going back to my vintage JBLs (still set small) and I have my great sound back. . .

Suprfly2k,
It is my understanding that DVD-A menus will not show via HDMI. I have my 59 hooked up HDMI and component and I have switch to component on my monitor to view DVD-A menus.

I think I read a similar comment either in this thread or at some other place....

My DVD-A menus shows up fine via HDMI. The only time the menus will not show up is if I have the pure-direct ON. Otherwise menus come up fine.

Before someone asks here is my setup:
- Connected to a Hitachi display HDMI->DVI connection
- Australian model, 969avi; firmware: Region: 1/ver: 1.516(16)/AV1:2.0/2.8

Ritesh

I'm a new owner of the 59avi, and after opening the box, hooking up the player via HDMI to the IF 7210, I can't get video.

The HDMI cable was working with my LG stb to the 7210 just fine, and I want to use the HDMI from the DVD player to the Projector for DVDs. When I moved the cable to the 59avi, I can get the blue light on, and DVI 720P displays (IF uses a M1 to HDMI adapter at the projector) on the player until an image is sent to the projector (59avi menu or DVD). Once a image is sent, the HDMI blue light drops on the player, and the projector screen goes blank. If I hit stop on the player, the blue light once again will sync and turn on.

Can anyone offer advise or help?

Thanks in advance.

rhenriks, did you go to Initial Settings and set the HDMI settings (p. 73 of the manual)?

Doug

I'd like to, but the picture drops (menu display) and blue light drops, before I can get to the HDMI settings. When I go through Component, the HDMI setting on the menu is grayed out. It seems to be a sync issue when the player attempts to send an image to the IF 7210.

Troytn:

After reading your very positive review of the i-link connection with your Z9 I decided to give my i-link connection another try with my Yammie as well. I do believe that I will be staying with this connection instead of going the analog way. Anyway I was just wondering if you are using the i-link cable that came with your Pio 59 or did you get a different one? The reason I ask is because I see the obvious poor quality of the analog cables that they supply and I was wondering if the I-link cable suffers the same poor quality.

I have a problem with my 59avi that i hope someone can help me with .After a few months of running the HDMI out at 1080i with no problems, I go to turn on the player and cannot get hdmi output no matter if I reconnect trying to get the hand shake, nothing.
Is anyone else having their hdmi just go out like this and not be able to get it working again?
I cant complain too much as the component out is pretty awesome by itself, thanks,

Steve! Shake, reposition, or simply support or anchor your hdmi cable!! I do the same thing..lol

lee lang...
Yes I am using the I-Link cable that came with the 59avi with no issues. Loving my setup..

Troy

still can't get the hdmi to work anymore.Tried a new cable same thing ,the player acts like no hdmi cable is hooked up.
could something have gone out in my set? I was running hdmi out into a hdmi to dvi connector and the dvi into the hitachi 51gxw20b rptv .It worked great for a few months ,now nothing.

Hello All

Looking to pick up a Elite 59AVi , best price I have seen for a new , warranted unit is $699 + shipping.My questions is can I get a better price ? Any suggestions will be of help.

Thanks

where is that warranty unit?

Hello All

Looking to pick up a Elite 59AVi , best price I have seen for a new , warranted unit is $699 + shipping.My questions is can I get a better price ? Any suggestions will be of help.

Thanks
Warranteed for $699?

Where?...

update on my HDMi problem:
i tried another player and 2 different hdmi to dvi cables and everything works great except the 59avi so it goes in for repair.
I was told that this is happening quite often with the 59 players so i guess it is an easy fix.

Please forgive if this has been asked before but this is a huge thread.

I got the 59avi to replace the Momitsu v880. I tried a Monster hdmi to dvi adapter and could not get a picture to display on my Sanyo Z2 which is HDCP compliant.

The hdmi menu is always greyed out when the signal is sent via component through my dvdo hd to the z2.

The picture is nowhere close to as sharp and clear as the Momitsu, which cost $700 less than the Pioneer!

Any suggestions on how to get the hdmi to work?

What am I doing wrong with the 59avi>component>DVDO HD>DVI>Sanyo Z2 combo?

The hdmi menu is always greyed out when the signal is sent via component through my dvdo hd to the z2.


It's normal. If there is no HDMI cable plugged in the 59avi, then HDMI is greyed out. You have to only connect the HDMI connection, and not both at the same time.

BTW, the IScan HD is not HDCP compliant. You need the IScan HD+ if you want to use the DVI-out and HDCP. Or an SDI-player with the IScan HD...

http://www.dvdo.com/faq/faq_ishd_hdcp.html

How does the 59AVi sense a connection on the analog component output? I would think it is more likely that it senses the HDMI is plugged in and HDCP then shuts done the component outputs. I was hoping to do some quick back and forth comparisons between the HDMI 480i and component through an HDLeeza.

Hi Ed, Sounds like you have the same problem I have.
My player worked great with my display with the hdmi to dvi cable but one day i went to turn it on and no blue light .Same as you the hdmi settings are greyed out and it states that this operation cannot be performed.
As i stated before i thought it might be the set or cable but after testing both and using a different player and 2 different hdmi/dvi cables i find it is the players inability to now detect that a hdmi cable is plugged in.
My player is going in to have a new hdmi output installed .

Many many e-retailers offer the 59 in the $699 price range.ibuyplasma, dynaco.com, 50topsellers.com, authorizedelectronics.com, digitalmegastore.They offer factory warranties, there own or second party from 0-$99 1, 2, 3,or 4 years.

I have purchased from Authorized in the past with good results.As always its buyer beware with any non BM dealer.

The DVDO IScan HD+ can now accept 480i over HDMI for those 59avi owners out there interested in that "feature"...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5747414#post5747414

Cool! :D

I'm curious how long is your HDMI cable and which brand. I'm having trouble with a 23 feet bluejeans cable. I've got sparkles.
But with an Oppo 971 it's perfect. And for the conversion I have a gefen passive box and a 10feet DVI cable on top of that.

It seems the hdmi output is less powerfull that the oppo's DVI, weird.

Hi LEVESQUE, you're quite excited by that HD+ update! ;)

Hi LEVESQUE, you're quite excited by that HD+ update! ;)

Yes. :D

Levesque- That's huge! Thanks !!

as recommended by Secrets?

as recommended by Secrets?

It's in the video adjust menu. Select one of the memory presets, and under the "PureCinema" menu, you'll find four settings: on, off, auto1 and auto2.

...details in Chapter 7 of the user manual "Video Settings Menu."

Ross

Levesque- That's huge! Thanks !!

:D For those interested in using a Pioneer Elite 59avi with an IScan HD+...

The new DVDO beta firmware is working with the Pioneer 59avi also. You can now use 480i over HDMI to the IScan HD+. I just finished watching Return of The King completely without a glitch by sending 480i over HDMI to the IScan!

I just saved myself an SDI mod! Cool!

Sweet. I'm all over it. JVB here I come.

Dimensions: What's the height and depth of the 59AVi (I can only find the width in the specs)

Well, it seems like a few others are having difficulties with the HDMI output from the 59AVI. I recently tried 2 HDMI cables, one 6 ft. in lenght, and no success connecting to a IF 7210. I borrowed a Yamaha S2500 from the local store, and it worked without any issues over my 30 ft. cable. Guess it's a Yamaha decision by default.

Where's a good on-line source to purchase the 59avi?

Has anyone here gone from the Denon 5900 to the 59AVI?? I have read alot but did not see where anyone had.

I have an opportunity to return my macroblocking 5900 for a 59avi and pocket the difference (about $900). I would also probably pair the 59avi with a Iscan HD+ down the road.

The other option the retailer is giving me is to pay more and get a 5910 at a significantly reduced price (about the same price difference but on the up side) but I am not sure if that is wise given HD dvd is supposedly near.

As far as display I have a Mits 62725 dlp. Also FWIW I am also picking up a Mits 2000U DVHS this week for cheap.

So....pay more for 5910....pocket good bucks and get 59avi then pair with Iscan HD+ later....keep the 5900 via component out.

What do you say?.....

from user guide 16 9/16 x 4 5/16 x 10 15/16 (W x H x D) or in mm 420x109x278

Can the 59AVi play JPEGS or mp3's?...

Has anyone here gone from the Denon 5900 to the 59AVI?? I have read alot but did not see where anyone had.Here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5752609&&#post5752609) is someone who made this switch due to macroblocking.

Dan

Can the 59AVi play JPEGS or mp3's?...

I think it was asked before but no reponses... I'll have a go.... :)

MP3s - YES (have only tried it on CDs though; not on DVD-Rs yet)
JPEGs - NO

Ritesh

I made the switch from a Denon 5900. Not because of MB (I didn't see any), but because I wanted to use the IScan HD+ (I have alot of sources) and send 480i over HDMI to it. All the Denon players and Onkyo are limited to 480p and up over the digital connection. But not the 59avi...

Alone, to my eyes, the 5900 was better. But paired with the IScan HD+, the 59avi is better with my display, particularly with my projector that is at an odd resolution of 1400X788. And the IScan HD+ is filtering the CUE bug and the ICP error of the 59avi. And by using 480i over HDMI to the IScan, I'm bypassing the Pioneer de-interlacer.

But if like me you have alot of sources (and who doesn't?), like VHS, XBOX, Sat, HD-PVR etc, and/or a display with a non-standard resolution (not 480, 720p or 1080i) then the combo 59avi + IScan HD+ (or any scaler passing 480i over HDMI) is a no-brainer. But with a standard resolution display, and only 1 source (the DVD-player) to my eyes it would be a lateral move. And I taught the 5900 was superior to the 59avi in that situation.

The 59avi will be able to grow with my system. If I want to use a different scaler with it, like the new Algolith Dragonfly for example, I will be able to, by sending 480i over the digital connection to it.

Leve, Which mode on the player do you use? direct?

Hope this isn't against the rules, but I have been having a hard time finding a non-NY based dealer that sells this unit through mail order. At least none of the reputable dealers I usually go to seem to carry it. Are there other vendors that others have had good experiences with? I have a Pioneer PDP-5050HD coming and need a quality HDMI DVD player.

.... And the IScan HD+ is filtering the CUE bug and the ICP error of the 59avi. And by using 480i over HDMI to the IScan, I'm bypassing the Pioneer de-interlacer...

There is no CUE on the 59avi (or in its equivalent Pioneer 868AV) only ICP or am I missing something ?

Well, it seems like a few others are having difficulties with the HDMI output from the 59AVI. I recently tried 2 HDMI cables, one 6 ft. in lenght, and no success connecting to a IF 7210. I borrowed a Yamaha S2500 from the local store, and it worked without any issues over my 30 ft. cable. Guess it's a Yamaha decision by default.


I'm using a 10 meter HDMI cable with my Pioneers 868 (same as the 59AV) and an Optoma H78 with no problem whatsoever. The brand I bought is called "Profigold" and is the "premium" line of the cheaper Bandridge.

There is no CUE on the 59avi (or in its equivalent Pioneer 868AV) only ICP or am I missing something ?

Per Secrets:

"the main 3-2 and video based CUE errors are gone. But with material that uses an alternating 3-2 cadence (most of the Disney animated DVDs), you will see a flickering problem in solid colors. The Pioneer solution also doesn’t have a chroma filter for 4:2:0 ICP, while the Faroudja, HQV, and DVDO solutions do have this."

It's faint, it's rare, but it's there for certain titles, particularly those by Disney.

Can't the ALT 3-2 flag problem be fixed by forcing Pure Cinema mode to ON? I thought that this was detailed earlier in this thread.

Would like to purchase a new Pioneer 59AVi DVD player to use with a HD2K projector. Any recommendations as to a reliable internet site to get one?

Thanks, Al

After a bit of research here I think I'm ready to get a 59avi to pair up with my Panny TH-50PHD7UY. (I was going to wait for Blu-ray / HD DVD, but I now think that resolution of competing formats may take longer than I originally thought).

Anyway, I would appreciate any Panny owners advice and/or experience (i.e., should I output the 59avi at 720p, 1080i, etc.)

I have that tv and dvd player and when calibrated my ISF guy set the pioneer to output 720p. This combo produces an awesome picture and I can't recommend these 2 enough :) You'll love these two together. Get an hdmi cable to upconvert through and you can also check out my thread about the ISF calibration. It's a few months old but you should be able to find it by searching with my username.

Thanks,

I should have my HDMI blade by the end of the month, so hopefully I should be able to locate a 59avi by then (I found a local dealer, I'll probably get it from him).

guys,

how does the 59avi in 480i paired with a DVDO+ scaler look as compared to say an SDI mod (like in a 3910)? I have a friend who just finished a house and is looking for the best possible PQ, but doesn't want to go the Denon 5910 route...

I recommended either a 3910 SDI mod, or a 59avi via 480i to a DVDO..... any help is appreciated..

Seems this post as come to an end? I only found it after doing a search for it.

I have a 59avi and plan to hook it up in the next few days using 480i thru the hdmi to a ISCAN HD+ that has the new Beta firmware.
I have previously used a denon 3910 with SDI into the Iscan.
I will report back in the next few days and let you know my opinions.

Seems this post as come to an end? I only found it after doing a search for it.

The last post was only three days before your post. I hardly think that constitutes an "end" to the thread.

Do you have any questions re the 59avi?

Stevie- What display will you be trying the 59AVi and beta iScan with?

Ok, kinda a longshot here and im a noobie so forgive me for asking this ridiculous question. Since the Pioneer can upconvert thru HDMI, can i use a HDMI->DVI-I->5BNC adapter/s and get the image upscaled to say 720p? I realize that HDMI is digital and BNC is analog so perhaps a transcoder/converter can do what i want? Still hunting for a source for a future crt pj. Thanks for reading. If anything, i just gave this thread a friendly bump. :)

/cheers
jer

Ok, kinda a longshot here and im a noobie so forgive me for asking this ridiculous question. Since the Pioneer can upconvert thru HDMI, can i use a HDMI->DVI-I->5BNC adapter/s and get the image upscaled to say 720p? I realize that HDMI is digital and BNC is analog so perhaps a transcoder/converter can do what i want?
/cheers
jer


Unfortunately, no. HDMI is copy protected and you can not convert the copy protected stream to analog.