hello.

it has been a very long time for me to post something hear but i would like to know how this 59avi compares to these other 200.00 players.

this player seems like you get the most for your money as far as the other features such as dvd-a and sacd play back as well as i link. as far as video this player seems to get pretty good write ups from you guys. i would be using the hdmi output if you think it is the best.

thanks for any help you could give.

Just tried my second hdmi/dvi cable from 59avi to Sanyo Z2 and it will not sync.

I unplugged all other components and video cables from both the 59avi and the Z2.

If I select computer input on Z2 it will show the menu from the 59avi but the hdmi section is greyed out and no video will show.

If I select HDCP compliant AV device input on Z2 the 59avi tries to sync with it but cycles thru two or three garbeled outputs and will display nothing, not even the menu with the greyed out hdmi section

Given that this seems to be a common problem with several people here, and given that I want to output 480i to a DVDO HD+, it looks like I'm going to have to send the 59avi for repair.

Can't seem to find the answer to this one but it must be simple.

I have a DV-59avi and Pio 49-TX (i-link upgraded) connected via i-link.
All bass magement and speaker compensation is done in the receiver not the player.

Multi Channel DVD-A and SACD play find with sub-woofer output but two channel SACD or 192khz DVD-A 2 channel disks do not activate/use the Sub unless
I change the speaker settings from ALL SMALL to Front Large and SW Plus


Is there any way around this manual change every time I want to play a two channel SACD/DVD-A?

This occurs even with the receiver set for "stereo" and not direct modes.

With my 59Avi + 55Txi combo (also via iLink) I have found the same. Although I haven't tried it in a while, I *think* front small + SW yes or plus will give you want you want, as will front large + SW plus (as you pointed out), but perhaps there's another reason you're not getting what you want.

I rememer futzing around with these settings using Resphigi's Pines of Rome CD which has a track (Catacombs) that hase some insanely low frequency pipe organ tones.

With 2 channel disks, there's no separate sub channel so its up to base management to determine where the main speakers stop and the sub begins. For DSD streams (e.g., SACD) I think (perhaps someone can confirm) that conversion to PCM is required to perform base management. DSD -> PCM conversion can be skipped by the 59Avi if using iLink, therefore it's up to the receiver to make the conversion. If for some reason the receiver is not making this conversion, you don't get base management and therefore no sub.

Perhaps someone over on the AV receiver forum knows more about the details of the Pioneer receiver's base management...

Hi,

I noticed that the 2ch output (next to t he 6ch analog outs) DOES NOT automatically downmix the 5.1ch dvd sound; instead one has to go to the settings and turn the analog output from 5.1 channel to 2channel. This, ofcourse, is not nice as it also affects the normal 6channel output. Is there a way around this?

I have connected my 6channel analog outs to the receiver (for high-rez music), digital coax out (for movies) and have recently connected the 2ch analog outs to the TV speakers (so I can watch documentaries etc., without turning the amp. ON).

I was also thinking of using the 2ch analog outs for multiroom setups etc.

If there is a workaround, and if it can be posted here, that would be great; or else I guess it is a limitation (albeit minor, IMHO) of the player,

Ritesh

Hi !

If I send 480i/576i over HDMI can I still adjust gamma etc.

I just joined the 59avi club on Thursday and I am impressed. This machine is amazing. One question: for those of you who connect the 59avi to your amp with the 5.1 jacks, do you use a subwoofer specific cable for the sub line feed? Right now, I'm using a regular component video cable (an extra I had lying around) and I'm getting very little bass out of my sub.

Thanks,
Reagan

I caught some screen shots from my display that has been calibrated with DVE, via HDMI on 1080I

What I saw was extreme banding, smudging in red part of image.

I compared those same images with Samsung Hd-850 and Yamaha S2500..and did not see that color anomaly!

Is there any way to fix it?

What it is?

Chroma error? of what sort?

Well I can not attach as my image is more than 2MB? what can I do?

I sent those images to Kris Deering to evaluate and comment? May be he can downscale and attach?

I just joined the 59avi club on Thursday and I am impressed. This machine is amazing. One question: for those of you who connect the 59avi to your amp with the 5.1 jacks, do you use a subwoofer specific cable for the sub line feed? Right now, I'm using a regular component video cable (an extra I had lying around) and I'm getting very little bass out of my sub.

Thanks,
Reagan

Welcome, Reagan. I use the regular Monster interconnects (one day I'll upgrade to better cables). All 6, including sub, are the same.

Do you get very little bass through the 5.1 inputs from all sources - DVD, CD, SACD? The .1 output for SACD is notoriously low. I think I have mine boosted by 5 dB in the 59. If it's low w/ all input sources, maybe you just need to add gain in the receiver or the sub itself. There are other here who know more about calibrating audio, so I'll let them chime in if the feel it's necessary.

Doug

Look for the "DMP Multichannel Reference SACD" to properly set levels. FWIW, the 47Ai had a sub test tone that was incorrectly too low, but if you set the sub's level with most test discs, you will get the correct level. I never checked the 59AVi's sub test tone level because I just use test discs.

I just bought a PIO 5050. I'm looking at a few DVD players: (1) Denon 1910, (2) Panny S77, (3) Pio Elite 59avi. I sorta like using the Pio with the PIo. Are there any reasons I should pick one over the other? I await your insights, ray

Strongly recommend HDMI with the 5050 (I have the older 1110HD, which is the Elite version of the 5040). I think the 1910 is DVI. I have found that DVI is not quite the same as quality as HDMI (comparing HD STB's -- so the comparison may not be the applicable) but they're awfully close. The S77 has HDMI, I believe.

I understand your Pio / Pio interest, as I did something very similar when I got the 1110HD, however, at that time I got my 59Avi (Jan '04) is was about the only player out there that had HDMI. Also, I have a Pio receiver (55Txi), so the iLink from the 59Avi to the 55Txi was also a big factor for me.

Now that there are many more HDMI players out there, I would argue the strongest reason to go with the 59Avi is if to take advantage of the iLink with a compatable Pio receiver such as the 55, 56 or 59Txi.

Ross

I caught some screen shots from my display that has been calibrated with DVE, via HDMI on 1080I

What I saw was extreme banding, smudging in red part of image.


I've seen this before. I thought it was Chroma ICP at one time but now I am not sure. Do you see it when your dvd player is set to 16:9 and 4:3? Try alternating the setups in dvd player and display. On one of my 4:3 TV's setting it to 16:9 mode on the dvd player corrected the problem so it may be someting to do with the scaling of anamorphic formats. I never figured it out.

What is strange to me is that all Faroudja based players did not display this issue.

I did not switch my display to 4:3! If I do? how it will effect my WS anamorphic dvds?

Kris said it is CUE and is defect in mpeg decoder and can not be corrected!..TOO BAD!

Does anybody know if the Pioneer can output both component and HDMI at the same time?

Thanks

Yes. When I finally added the hdmi blade to my th50 plasma, I left the component cables connected. I switched inputs on the tv to see which one gave a better picture. I left the component cables connected for now.

Doug and Kevin,

Thanks for the info. I'd say that the sub level is a little low for all types of discs (DD, DTS, etc) decoded by the 59avi, but it was almost non-existent for 2-channel SACD (Rolling Stones).

-Reagan

Doug and Kevin,

Thanks for the info. I'd say that the sub level is a little low for all types of discs (DD, DTS, etc) decoded by the 59avi, but it was almost non-existent for 2-channel SACD (Rolling Stones).

-Reagan

Do you have all output going throught the analog outputs? If so, I would think you need to boost the .1 output in the 59, and then you'll get more from the sub for all sources. Like Kevin said, use a setup disc.

For 2-ch SACDs, are you sure you're getting anything from the sub? Unless you have the speakers set to small in the 59, you will only get left & right for 2-ch SACD. If you do have speakers set to small, I'm guessing it's part of the same problem you have w/ all other sources. Maybe there's even less on a 2-ch SACD because the 59 is splitting the low frequencies to go to the sub, but other sources (e.g. DD 5.1, DTS 5.1, etc.) have that dedicated .1 channel already mixed. I'm guessing here because I set speakers to large and just let 2.0 music (SACD & CD) go to just the left and right.

Doug

Not sure if you've already done this or not but when listening to cd's or 2 channel only sacd's & dvd-a's make sure that you go into your INITIAL SETTINGS and scroll down to SPEAKERS and make sure that it is set for 2 channel and NOT 5.1 channel. There is FA for low end if your listening to a cd and your speakers are set to 5.1.

Did find some info about the new european version: DV-989AVi (http://www.areadvd.de/news/2005/200507/070720050003.shtml). Don't know if there is any info about the Elite version. Old European model was DV-868AVi as you know.
Maybe it's time for a brand new thread :).

Ah, thanks PedroV :): DV-989AVi (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=556860)

Doug and Lee,

Thanks for the info. I'll play around with it some more.

-Reagan

Sorry if I missed the answer to this somewhere abovee, but is there a reason you aren't using one of the digital outputs for 2-channel listening?

Sorry if I missed the answer to this somewhere abovee, but is there a reason you aren't using one of the digital outputs for 2-channel listening?

Reagan might answer differently, but I use the analog outputs for all listening because I like the sound from the DACs in the 59 better than in my Marantz receiver.

I only use the digital output when watching DVDs.

Doug

Reagan might answer differently, but I use the analog outputs for all listening because I like the sound from the DACs in the 59 better than in my Marantz receiver.

I only use the digital output when watching DVDs.

Doug
Cant you use analogues for 5.1 DD, DTS too? does pioneer has decoders built in?

Cant you use analogues for 5.1 DD, DTS too? does pioneer has decoders built in?

Of course it does.

But the sound "should" be better on DD and DTS via the digital connection.

As for why I was using the analogs for DD and DTS, Doug nailed it. My motto is, I'll try every way of connecting things in search of the best performance. If the DVD player does a better job than my receiver, then I'll use it.

I really do appreciate all of this audio help. One thing's for sure, I'll be buying a new receiver soon. My Sony (no snickering please) just isn't cutting it.

I am still impressed at how good the picture quality is from the 59avi when connected via HDMI to my monitior. I didn't think a DVD could look this good.

-Reagan

One problem with using the 5.1 analog connection is that you'll miss out on DD EX and DTS-ES if you have a 6.1 or 7.1 system...

As for why I was using the analogs for DD and DTS, Doug nailed it. My motto is, I'll try every way of connecting things in search of the best performance. If the DVD player does a better job than my receiver, then I'll use it.

I really do appreciate all of this audio help. One thing's for sure, I'll be buying a new receiver soon. My Sony (no snickering please) just isn't cutting it.

I am still impressed at how good the picture quality is from the 59avi when connected via HDMI to my monitior. I didn't think a DVD could look this good.

-Reagan

I won't snicker about your Sony (esp. because I had a Sony before I upgraded to the Marantz about 8 months ago) if you won't snicker about my still using a 9-year-old 32" Sony CRT. HDTV? HDMI? I'm still dreaming, but I got the 59 with a mind to the future.

Doug

Does anyone that has a 59avi have it hooked up to Panasonic 6UY plasma using the DVI blade connection? I have a 42WD6UY and am looking at getting the soon to be released Pioneer 74txvi receiver. I think the 59avi would be the way to go with the 74txvi.

My only concern is I have seen some posts as far as HDMI to DVI cables or adaptors. Would there be any issues with this as it will be only video or are there issues as far as HDCP going from HDMI to DVI (or is HDCP not an issue with DVD's)? I'm pretty sure I can not get a HDMI blade for 6UY.

Thanks for any advice on this, Bill

No. The 59AVi does not have the HDMI to DVI problem that some players do. Here is a Secret's article where they explain a lot of good DVI/HDMI stuff:

http://206.225.87.49/volume_11_4/feature-dvi-hdmi-hdcp-connections-11-2004.html

Kevin,

Thank you for the info. and the Secrets link. I will read it when I get a chance, I'm sure it will answer all my questions.

Thanks again, Bill

Anyway I was able to compare the 5.1 analog outputs and the firewire connection to my Yamaha RX-Z9.

Let me tell you what FIREWIRE ROCKS! It gives a more open air sound to music. More details to movie soundtracks.

I have been running my Z9 and 59avi via firewire for several months now. Within the last several weeks, I started having sound dropping/skipping problems. At first it did it only every once in awhile. Now, it does it on just about every DVD I play. Here are the symptoms:

While playing a DVD, the sound will drop out a few milli-seconds here and there. Video is uneffected. During these drop-outs, the sound is completely silenced. Once the dropouts start, it gets progressively worse until it is a constant series of dropped audio. The problem is NOT with the DVD disc as I can shut my receiver off and back on and replay the exact same clip that the audio was dropped and it plays just fine. Every time this problem starts, turning my Z9 off and back on fixes the problem for awhile. Sometime it will go the rest of the DVD without dropping audio again and sometimes I have to power cycle the receiver 10 times during a DVD.

I do NOT have this problem on my digital coaxial port via my satilite receiver. When this problems happens, my i-Link connection light on the DVD player and receiver is on and is not blinking on and off or anything.

Has anyone else had this problem? How can I determine if the problem is with the 59avi or the Z9?

Thanks!

I have been running my Z9 and 59avi via firewire for several months now. Within the last several weeks, I started having sound dropping/skipping problems. At first it did it only every once in awhile. Now, it does it on just about every DVD I play. Here are the symptoms:

While playing a DVD, the sound will drop out a few milli-seconds here and there. Video is uneffected. During these drop-outs, the sound is completely silenced. Once the dropouts start, it gets progressively worse until it is a constant series of dropped audio. The problem is NOT with the DVD disc as I can shut my receiver off and back on and replay the exact same clip that the audio was dropped and it plays just fine. Every time this problem starts, turning my Z9 off and back on fixes the problem for awhile. Sometime it will go the rest of the DVD without dropping audio again and sometimes I have to power cycle the receiver 10 times during a DVD.

I do NOT have this problem on my digital coaxial port via my satilite receiver. When this problems happens, my i-Link connection light on the DVD player and receiver is on and is not blinking on and off or anything.

Has anyone else had this problem? How can I determine if the problem is with the 59avi or the Z9?

Thanks!

Maybe your cable is to long, or you have a ground loop that add's noise to the signal. Try connecting only the cables you really need, and take out radio and TV cables and play a DVD.
Or do you have more connectors, so you can swap and see (listen) if the problem disappears.
Then it could also be some sort of timing problem. Check if there is a firmware upgrade for te Z9.

Here's another DV-59AVi plus. The Oppo, Pan S97 and Pan S77 do not fill the whole screen when outputting 720p. There is a black border around the whole pic. In the case of the Oppo, Guy Kuo reports that it not only has a shrunken picture but chops off pixels all around too. I have an old Pan RP82 and it fills the whole screen as does my DV-59AVi.

People with this problem have abandoned the native 720p of their proj. and are using 480p which fills the whole screen. Kind of misses the point of HDMI/DVI, doesn't it. Interestingly several have reported a better pic from the component outputs of the S97 than the HDMI out.

Ithink the conclusion of this, along with the myriad of color complaints on Denons and others, is that its easy to slap an HDMI or DVI out on a player and throw in a Faroudja chip, but it's not that easy to do it correctly and get a great picture.

Correction. I think you misunderstood my comment. The OPPO does not chop pixels off the image. They are all represented in the image. It simply windowboxes the entire image into a slightly smaller rectangle than the 1280 x 720 target resolution

Correction. I think you misunderstood my comment. The OPPO does not chop pixels off the image. They are all represented in the image. It simply windowboxes the entire image into a slightly smaller rectangle than the 1280 x 720 target resolution

Why would they do this? I assume this was done intentionally for some reason?

:confused:

We don't know. One reasonable hypothesis is that they got enough complaints from RPTV owners about the edges of their picture missing. RPTV's have overscan. If OPPO listened to those customers complaints and fixed the problem for them you end up with the DVD image inset like it currently is. On the other hand, we FPTV owners who can adjust overscan to zero complain the DVD image doesn't quite fill the screen. So fixing it for one group, ruins it for another. An option setting would satisfy both camps, but add yet another control.

I guess there are more non FPTV's than FPTV's.

Thanks for the reply Guy. That explanation makes as much sense as anything else would.

Originally posted by Jeffks.
I have been running my Z9 and 59avi via firewire for several months now. Within the last several weeks, I started having sound dropping/skipping problems. At first it did it only every once in awhile. Now, it does it on just about every DVD I play.

Jeffks,

I also have a Yamaha Z9 and a Pioneer S969AVi (OZ version of 59AVi) connected by FIREWIRE. I started having the dropout problems you described but was also having a problem with the amp shutting itself off. I contacted Yamaha and they said that there are silver grounding screws underneath each speaker terminal. If these have worked themselves loose (even slightly) it can cause the amp to shutdown. I tightened each one as firmly as I could.

I no longer have any problem with the amp shutting down, plus I no longer have the problem with the intermittent dropouts with the Firewire.

This may or may not solve your problem, but it's worth a try.

I noticed a few people on this thread having to send their units in for HDMI problems. I also had a bad unit, "failed HDMI", straight out of the box. Is there a build date common with this problem? If not mistaken, I remember that unit was mfg Jun/04.

Thanks,

Jeff

Before you consider it not working make sure you disconnect the end of the dvi cable that goes into the display with the player and display on.sometimes it doesnt see the hdcp handshake and by disconnecting and reconnecting it will see it and work perfectly.
As i posted elsewhere, my 59avi was working perfectly at 1080i over hdmi/dvi cable then one morning nothing.No blue light no picture and the hdmi menu was greyed out and stated that the option was not available when i tried to reset it.The tech at the shop had to order a part from pioneer .I will post the results when i get the player back.

GOOD NEWS!! 59AVI OWNERS!!
The problem with my player was the HDMI connector.I guess these connectors are so sensitive that if you do alot of unplugging and reconnecting they tend to go real fast since they rely on friction to hold the male part in.
I really would like to see a screw in type lock on each side like DVI connectors have .This would defintely extend the life of an HDMI female connector.
Other than that ,the player works perfectly.
I purchased it on Ebay from Electronics delivered for around $700 and it was covered by the full pioneer warranty!
The total cost of the part was $13.50 with that and all labor free!

VU and Jeffks- When you use i.Link between the Pio and the Yamaha receiver, does the player tell you that PLQS is enabled?

VU:

I too own a Yamaha Z9 and I was wondering exactly where are these silver grounding screws. I looked on my back panel but there were no silver screws under each speaker terminal. I did see a total of 6 silver screws ( 3 on the left hand side and 3 on the right hand side ) but they are in between the speaker terminals. They are located directly in the middle of the red and black terminals and as I said there is not one screw for each terminal. Only 3 spaced out on the left and 3 spaced out on the right. Are these the ones you are talking about?

Here's another DV-59AVi plus. The Oppo, Pan S97 and Pan S77 do not fill the whole screen when outputting 720p. There is a black border around the whole pic.

add Denon 1910 to the list. It behaves exactly like what Guy described. Actually I never understood why it is doing this. Now I know.

Isn't it amazing a 2003 product is doing things right at the 1st try whereas a 2004/5 product still has strange issues ?

Lee Lang,

Yes, they are the screws I am talking about (sorry my description was a bit off).

Kevin C Brown,

No, the player does not say that "PLQS" is enabled. I think that this is only enabled when the 59AVi is linked to a Pioneer receiver with firewire.

Hi,

I noticed that the 2ch output (next to t he 6ch analog outs) DOES NOT automatically downmix the 5.1ch dvd sound; instead one has to go to the settings and turn the analog output from 5.1 channel to 2channel. This, ofcourse, is not nice as it also affects the normal 6channel output. Is there a way around this?

I have connected my 6channel analog outs to the receiver (for high-rez music), digital coax out (for movies) and have recently connected the 2ch analog outs to the TV speakers (so I can watch documentaries etc., without turning the amp. ON).

I was also thinking of using the 2ch analog outs for multiroom setups etc.

If there is a workaround, and if it can be posted here, that would be great; or else I guess it is a limitation (albeit minor, IMHO) of the player,

Ritesh

Can some other kind soul test this too? I hope I am not the only one with this issue.....if there is a way around kindly let us know as well...

Ritesh

VU- Thanks.

Hey, is anyone out there with a 59AVi using it with a Pioneer receiver with i.Link? :)

Yes, I am, with a 56txi.

Same here.

Guys I have searched and searched and could not come up with a "straight up" answer to this question, I will be purchasing the 59 this week:

With the 59 set to 16:9 1080i or 480p HDMI output

Does 4:3 material have pillarboxing to maintain a 16:9 image?? black or grey bars if so??
most importantly does the 59 scale Non-anamorphic dvd's to 16:9 like my old RP91??

this is very important to me due to the fact that I own lots of Non-Anamorphic dvd's and the fact that my Mits 65813 picture is the best when left in full 16:9(not using any of the Mits stretch modes etc.)

Thanks, I appreciate a reply from anyone on this and If I missed a straight out post on this I apologize very much

-Gary

Yes, Gary, the 59avi will do pillarboxing for 4:3 material!

Thats great news Rob thanks very much, can anyone confirm the scaling of non-anamoprhic's to 16:9???, that would be great also

sounds like the 59 will be my player :) , I have loved pioneer elite for many years and can't wait to pick this unit up

-Gary

Thats great news Rob thanks very much, can anyone confirm the scaling of non-anamoprhic's to 16:9???, that would be great also

You know, I have to be honest, I don't remember for sure. I think I recall some posts about this a while back with Bob Pariseau (where are you Bob?). I am not so sure that non-anamorphic 16:9 discs are scaled correctly.

Hopefully someone else can step up to answer that one.

sounds like the 59 will be my player :) , I have loved pioneer elite for many years and can't wait to pick this unit up

-Gary

It is a great player at any price. Factor in the price that you can get these for now, it's bang for the buck can't be beat! You will love it.

I've been looking for a 59avi but locally is full price only. Can anybody suggest a good online dealer for one that they would trust? I've seen a few on E-bay both B stock and new but wanted some advice from somebody on here that has some real experience with a online store.

Thanks

Jim

Can someone give me a url with which I can download the 59avi Owner's Manual?

I have searched this forum extensively without luck. I have also tried to register on the www.pioneerelectronics.com web site where manuals are listed, but the registration process prior to downloading the manual only results in a "404" error.
Thanks in advance. Steve

The 59avi unfortunately does NOT scale non anamorphic widescreen dvds over the HDMI output. These dvds will show the letterbox movie within the 4:3 frame. This is the only thing I don't like about my 59avi so I use the xbox for playing nonanamorphic widescreen dvds or 4:3 dvds that I want to fill the screen. I have so few dvds that fall into this category that it's a non-issue to me...

The 59avi unfortunately does NOT scale non anamorphic widescreen dvds over the HDMI output. These dvds will show the letterbox movie within the 4:3 frame. This is the only thing I don't like about my 59avi so I use the xbox for playing nonanamorphic widescreen dvds or 4:3 dvds that I want to fill the screen. I have so few dvds that fall into this category that it's a non-issue to me...
I confirm this.
I found another solution though - I run both HDMI and component cables to my TV. When playing non-anamorphic widescreen DVDs I select component input on my TV and let it do the scaling.

Yeah, that's the other solution. I don't do that because on my panny plasma I have all hdmi inputs and no component inputs except the one for the xbox left. So, yes that's the way to go if you want to watch non anamorphic letterbox.

Can someone give me a url with which I can download the 59avi Owner's Manual?... the registration process prior to downloading the manual only results in a "404" error.
It ain't easy, but...

Try this link (and use Explorer if you can): http://makeashorterlink.com/?I1692217B

Hopefully that will take you right to the webpage where the manual is presented in Acrobat within Explorer... rather than use Explorer to save the file, use the Acrobat menu (diskette icon upper left) to save the Acrobat file... make sure to name it with a proper .pdf suffix.

Be patient... takes a long time to open the file, and a long time to download (and I'm on broadband)... big file, 3.5 MB... klunky, but that's how I did it.

Good luck.

gdX,

Thanks very much for the 59avi Owner's Manual download url link that you just posted. I downloaded the PDF format manual with no problems. The power of this forum just amazes me sometimes. Less than one hour from my request to the answer/help I was requesting. Thanks again. Steve

The 59avi unfortunately does NOT scale non anamorphic widescreen dvds over the HDMI output. These dvds will show the letterbox movie within the 4:3 frame.

...

That's what I thought.

I have so few non-anamorphic 16:9 DVD's that it really isn't much of an issue with me either.

Thanks guys ,that is bad news for me, but If I decide to run the 59 thru a Iscan HD with 480i HDMI that will be a non issue :)

-Gary

Ya got that right, Gary!

revmike and DEIFan- How does the player (or) receiver tell you that you have PQLS enabled?

(PQLS is the clock syncing you get by running two Pio components together with i.Link.)

Thanks!

revmike and DEIFan- How does the player (or) receiver tell you that you have PQLS enabled?

(PQLS is the clock syncing you get by running two Pio components together with i.Link.)

Thanks!

It shows on the player's LCD display itself. Within 1st 5 secs after u play a CD, it will show "PQLS ON". Nothing on the receiver.

PQLS (Pioneer Quartz Locking System or something like that) is not a feature user turns on or off. The 59Avi and a compatible receiver (e.g., a Pio iLink receiver) decide between the two of them that PQLS is doable given the circumstances (e.g., iLink enabled, etc.) , and so fire it up. The idea is that the 59Avi's internal clock is "mastered" (phase loop locked?) by the receiver's clock to reduce (Pioneer goes as far, I think, to say "eliminate") jitter.

Jitter manifests itself in the final audio "product" as a warbling or lack of stability of the audio image due to small drift errors in the clock used to read the bits off the CD and the clock used to decode the data into analog voltages sent off to your speakers.

For an off-the-deep end article on this subject, have a read of this over at Stereophile: http://www.stereophile.com/features/368/

Ross

The idea is that the 59Avi's internal clock is "mastered" (phase loop locked?) by the receiver's clock to reduce (Pioneer goes as far, I think, to say "eliminate") jitter.


The real hook with PQLS via iLink is that iLink, unlike coax or toslink connections, is two-way, so the receiver does not have to slave to the player. The receiver can request data at the rate it wants and buffer it up, so the player's internal clock becomes effectively irrelevant, at least as far as jitter is concerned. Jitter is pratically non-existant, since the receiver's D/A converters are running off their own clock, rather than being influenced by jitter in the stream coming off the transport. With PQLS and iLink, the transport becomes literally that, no different than a ROM drive in a computer.

Dave

The real hook with PQLS via iLink is that iLink, unlike coax or toslink connections, is two-way, so the receiver does not have to slave to the player. The receiver can request data at the rate it wants and buffer it up, so the player's internal clock becomes effectively irrelevant, at least as far as jitter is concerned. Jitter is pratically non-existant, since the receiver's D/A converters are running off their own clock, rather than being influenced by jitter in the stream coming off the transport. With PQLS and iLink, the transport becomes literally that, no different than a ROM drive in a computer.


Is this the case for both DSD and PCM data streams? I was under the impression that for DSD data, a phase loop lock is necessary to reduce / eliminate jitter as the rate of bit arrival from the transport to the decoder becomes vital. I wasn't aware that DSD could be buffered.

In attempt to answer my own question, I came across this write-up for a rather expensive DSD D/A converter (from http://www.dcsltd.co.uk/dcs_elgar_plus.html)


One of the problems of using the standard AES/EBU and SPDIF digital interfaces between a CD transport and a D/A converter, is that the D/A converter has to extract the clock it needs to synchronise its operation from the incoming data stream. This is in itself not a difficult operation. The difficult part is to obtain a stable clock, as the incoming stream will always contain a certain amount of instability, which is referred to as jitter. There are a number of possible sources of jitter. These can include:

• Instability in the digital source's (e.g. CD transport) clock
• Insufficient bandwidth in the digital source's digital output circuitry
• Poor quality or unsuitable digital cable
• Noise and interference
• Insufficient bandwidth in the D/A converter's digital receiver circuitry

The solution to this is not to try and extract the clock from the incoming data, but to drive the transport and the D/A converter from the same clock source, which ideally is located within the D/A converter itself. This is exactly what the Elgar Plus' Master Mode function facilitates. In this mode, the Elgar Plus outputs an ultra-stable clock signal at 44.1kHz, which when used with the dCS Verdi SACD/CD transport or any other transport able to lock to such a signal, enables an even higher level of fidelity to be achieved than when the standard digital interfaces are used.

The result is more precise stereo imaging, better resolution of low level detail and better defined bass.

It should be noted that this method of synchronisation is not a new technique. It is standard practise in the professional recording environment and we have been using it to great effect on our professional products since 1988.


In other words, the way I interpret this technology is PQLS doesn't consist of the receiver saying "hold on to that data transport until I'm ready" but rather the both the receiver and transport flinging 1's and 0's around using a single reference clock.

Ross

An i.Link connection with both clocks sync'ed does *not* eliminate all jitter. Hi Fi News has tested Denon-Denon and Pioneer-Pioneer combos over the last few months. The Denons do not include flow control, so they got a number of 275,600 psecs! The Pio-Pio combo tested at 250 psecs of jitter. (Which is actually close to what the Pio player tested at by itself using its analog outputs.)

Anyone have the 59AVi hooked up via i.Link to some other manufacturer's receiver or pre/pro? Is PQLS still enabled? (I have conflicting data that some says it works with the Yamaha Z9, others say it doesn't. I doubt it works with Denon seeing how their own players don't; and Integra? I have no idea. :) )

Is it appropriate to translate 250 picoseconds of jitter into an audio image instability by simply multiplying by the speed of sound? In other words, if my Pio / Pio combo has 250 trillionths of a second of jitter, and the speed of sound is 300 m/s, I work that out as 0.075 microns (millions of a meter) of distance. Unless I hold my head in a vice, I dobut that I could notice that magnitude of image shift.

Surely I'm oversimplifying here, or is 250 picoseconds really an emilimation of jitter from a practical sense?

Ross

Is this the case for both DSD and PCM data streams? I was under the impression that for DSD data, a phase loop lock is necessary to reduce / eliminate jitter as the rate of bit arrival from the transport to the decoder becomes vital. I wasn't aware that DSD could be buffered.


DSD is digital data, and is just as bufferable (is this a word?) as any digital data. iLink is a digital communication mechanism, just like Ethernet or USB, so of course the data can be buffered. My whole point was that the player and iLink connection just serve to fill a buffer inside the receiver, a la a computer ROM drive, and the D/A converters are driven from the buffer. Phase locked loops are necessary with a one-way connection, since the clock has to be derived from the signal coming off the laser assembly, which is really a horrible (albeit cheap) design if you think about it, subject to motor variances, disc wobble, etc. However, the real world impact of jitter is only a problem when the jitter is quite severe. Even moderate levels of jitter impact the signal very minutely, and in my opinion, far below anything a human ear could detect.

The Pioneer iLink connection is the first good design for a digital interconnect I've seen. I think some very high end stuff in the past has had effectively the same design, but with stratospheric price tags. Was it Audio Alchemy that was selling a jitter filter years ago? It was a box that you put between your player and your preamp or receiver. It would buffer up the data coming from the player, reclock it very precisely and send it out.

Dave

The Denons do not include flow control, so they got a number of 275,600 psecs!

wow I'm surprised to see this. what's the point of doing iLink then ? (maybe Denon wants to promote DenonLink.) Which denon models did they test ?

The Denon models tested were the European editions of the ... 5910 and the 5805.

Ross- I never commented on the audibility of 250 psecs of jitter. :) Besides, you're comparing "250 psecs" of digital signal jitter with the speed of sound. Doesn't work that way.

Besides, you're comparing "250 psecs" of digital signal jitter with the speed of sound. Doesn't work that way.

That's what I suspected, however when I was discussing the Stereophile article (that I linked to a few posts ago) with a colleague who knows a lot more about audio technology than I, it was he that commented that the spatial (image) instability caused by picoseconds of jitter is fractions of a millimeter, so unless you listen with your head in a vice, it really doesn't matter. What I did was try to figure out (incorrectly, as I suspected) how to convert a jitter error into a spatial error. I can appreciate it's a lot more complicated than my simple attempt.

Ross

The way that I think of it, is that if the jitter is too high compared to the freq you're looking at, you could "slip" a cycle in time, and that's where an error could occur. Plus, you have to double the actual sound freq number you want to replicate to get to the electrical freq: 22kHz to 44kHz. But remember that DVD-A and SACD operate at much higher sampling freqs too. So jitter matters more for them. (I.e., a constant jitter number is a higher percentage of a cycle for a high res format.) At that point, I'm out of my league. :)

One thing I do know: 3 separate publications have somewhat decided similarly on what the numbers mean:

<200 Excellent
~500 average
>1000 poor

Stereophile, Home Cinema Choice, and Hi Fi News. (Latter 2 from the UK.)

I have somewhat kept an eye on Pioneer over the years. I have never seen a Pioneer player test greater than 300 psecs. And that includes an old carousel CD player, that PDR-609 (famous CD recorder), and all of their DVD players.

What I get from that is: i.Link by itself is not going to improve the audio quality situation in terms of jitter. But obviously, the player's DACs vs the receiver's matter, whether you want to use MACC or not, distance settings for SACD, etc. Some people feel that the DSD to PCM conversion in the receiver to get that stuff is a bad thing, but personally, the resolution is still so high that I feel the benefit is worth it.

did anyone try this on your 59avi ? For this specific "Film Detail Test", the one with the racing car testing 3:2 deinterlacing, I had very strange results: out of 10 try, 9 failed completely, but one passed with flying colors (it locked in less than 1/10 of a second and stayed there). I tried both auto1/2. firmware version 506. on HDMI 720p. The performance is not consistent. Had any one else tried the disk ?

Ive never heard of a HQV benchmark disc?

Can anyone tell me where I can get the BEST price on the 59AVI? It must be an authorized PIO dlr. Please reply? Thanks in advance. ray

The way that I think of it, is that if the jitter is too high compared to the freq you're looking at, you could "slip" a cycle in time...


Kevin,

Thanks for the info.


Some people feel that the DSD to PCM conversion in the receiver to get that stuff is a bad thing, but personally, the resolution is still so high that I feel the benefit is worth it.

My understanding is some DAC's can take DSD native, while others require a decimation stage to convert the DSD into PCM prior to input to the DAC.

After spending some time at Alex Hardware (http://members.cox.net/alexhardware/IC_database1.htm) I see the Pioneer 47Ai and 59Avi have Morotola's DSP56367 DSPs, TI's PCM1738 DACs, New Japan Radio Co. JRC5532 OPA DACs and the second-generation Sony CXD-2753 SACD decoder. The PCM1738 DAC's, however, do not support DSD.

Now, of interest to me are the chips on board my 55Txi receiver. The 55Txi has the identical DSP as my 59Avi (Motorola DSP56367), but the DAC is an AK4383 from Asahi-Kasei of Japan. If you read the spec sheet for this chip, you'll find out it has both PCM and DSD input modes. The Burr Brown's on board the 47Ai and 59Avi players need an optional DSD interface (decimator?) for SACD playback, but the 55Txi does not.

Hence, perhaps thet issue here is DSD using the 59Avi's analog outputs (and thus using the onboard DAC) requires a decimation stage (thus causing the DSD-philes to cringe) wherease using iLink to fire all that good DSD stuff off to my 55Txi avoids such malicious treatment of the bitstream.

I'm basically flying by the seat of my pants here, reading spec sheets and stuff, so please correct me where necessary!

Ross

I believe that the DSD must be converted to PCM to take advantage of MCACC and bass management in the receiver. There is a SACD direct mode that the 56txi has that does keep the DSD native stream, but applies no BM or MCACC in that case...

Ive never heard of a HQV benchmark disc?

it's http://www.hqv.com/benchmark.cfm

in the video processor forum http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=7&f=37
there is a coupon for $10 off.

some recent discussions
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=560637

Did any one try it ?

I just got this player based on what I've read on here. I am connected to a Hitachi 55hdt51 plasma, which I also just purchased. I haven't started to calibrate, but have only played around with both pieces of equipment to familiarize myself with them.

I am curious about one thing I noticed that I don't understand (and am a little worried may indicate some sort of problem with my player).

I tried all the various resolution settings under HDMI to see if I could notice a difference. I could see slight differences in noise levels among the various modes. From reading this thread and others, I think I understand that.

What I am curious about (and a little concerned about too) is that the "VGA(640x480) resolution is brighter than all the other resolution modes, and therefore shows much more detail at any given brightness level setting on the panel. (I have to move the brightness level of the panel from about 45 to about 75 to get approximately the same level on the settings other than VGA(640x480).

Is this normal? And if so, can anyone here give a quick explanation of why this might be so?

Thanks.

The Samsung is the new 1080p model. Anyone have any experience with combining this with the 59avi? I was going to get a Denon 2910 but became concerned about macroblocking. :confused:

I doubt anyone has experience with the new 1080p Samsungs since so few people have them in their homes yet.

One thing is clear though: you will not have to worry about the 59avi causing Macroblocking.

I doubt anyone has experience with the new 1080p Samsungs since so few people have them in their homes yet.

One thing is clear though: you will not have to worry about the 59avi causing Macroblocking.
Yup but deinterlacing artifacts plus cue at times!

Would there even be de-interlacing? 480i to 1080i. The display has to deinterlace 1080i to 1080p (if it can).

it's http://www.hqv.com/benchmark.cfm

in the video processor forum http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=7&f=37
there is a coupon for $10 off.

some recent discussions
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=560637

Did any one try it ?

any one ? :(

I doubt anyone has experience with the new 1080p Samsungs since so few people have them in their homes yet.

One thing is clear though: you will not have to worry about the 59avi causing Macroblocking.

Just pulled the trigger on the purchase of a 59avi - definitely saw
MB on my 1080p DLP Sammy with my Denon DVD-3910.

Hopefully I will get it sometime next week...

any one ? :(


I ordered one a few days ago. Once I get it, I will post my experiences.

I ordered one a few days ago. Once I get it, I will post my experiences.

That's cool! What display are you using (sorry if you already posted that before somewhere), and how do you connect the player?

I have a 52" Mitsubishi 52725 DLP connected via HDMI. The 59avi is set to output 720p to the display. All my 59avi settings are set to the default HDMI settings except for the Auto2 settings on the Cinema processing. Everything is calibrated using DVE.

Just pulled the trigger on the purchase of a 59avi - definitely saw
MB on my 1080p DLP Sammy with my Denon DVD-3910.

Hopefully I will get it sometime next week...

We'd like to hear your impressions after you hook it to your Sammy, Tony.

We'd like to hear your impressions after you hook it to your Sammy, Tony.

Sure. It is suppose to ship tomorrow via two day air shipping. I should receive
it by Wednesday at the very latest and will be hooking it up the same evening
I get it. Will post shortly after...

I ordered one a few days ago. Once I get it, I will post my experiences.

Thank you ! :) I'm particularly keen to see how it performs on the "Film Details Test", which is basically a very badly edited 3:2 sequence test. I can't get it to pass now. Other Farooudja based players seem to be better here.

In my case I connect via both component and HDMI to a Benq PE7700, another set of component to a Panny plasma (a very old PW3).

UMD_Terp- What did you have before the Pio? I seem to remember reading *other* threads where you posted? :)

Picked up a cheap Toshiba 4960, the one everyone raves about on the Asylum, and compared it to my 59AVi. PQ was no contest, the Pio was much better. SQ was a totally different matter.......

UMD_Terp- What did you have before the Pio? I seem to remember reading *other* threads where you posted? :)


Before the 59avi, I was using a POS Sharp DVD player from about four years ago. :o :o

I bought the 59avi early this year and it was the second piece in my setup after the display. My current setup is actually my first ever in terms of home theater :) I previously had a Denon 1600 that I gave to my dad for his HT afew years back... He owns a Mits. Diamond CRT which has a native 480p scan rate and the 1600 looks great on it. I never tried the 1600 with my DLP though...

Is there a replacement model for the 59 around the corner? Apparently the 969 PAL brother to the 59 is about to be updated to a 989AVi

...SQ was a totally different matter.......

Meaning...? Please elaborate.

Doug

Took the plunge last night...

Purchased the Pio Elite 59avi. This is by far the best built Home Theatre equipment I have purchased to date. Very solid and elegant. I am using it through componet outputs for now and a optical digital connection. I have set the video mode to Auto 2 as suggested by the good people at Secrets (Thanks Kris).

I already notice the picture seems smoother and more natural than my old SOny progressive scan player.

I am planning to calibrate it using the Avia disc I already own. Should I calibrate my stereo and television through their menus or should I calibrate through the 59avi's menu? I am leaning towards calibrating through my TV and receiver's menu. Any opinions guys?

Thanks again.

-Evangelo2

Is there a replacement model for the 59 around the corner? Apparently the 969 PAL brother to the 59 is about to be updated to a 989AVi

There is going to be a new model, the DV-79AVi. As to what is different and when it arrives, I have not heard yet. But Pioneer ususllay releases new product in Sept or thereabout.

Will there be a close out deal for 59avi then?

Will there be a close out deal for 59avi then?

That will probably depend on the dealers. I doubt Pioneer will reduce the MSRP.

59avi's can already be had quite cheap compared to the other top of the line Universal players.

Thank you ! :) I'm particularly keen to see how it performs on the "Film Details Test", which is basically a very badly edited 3:2 sequence test. I can't get it to pass now. Other Farooudja based players seem to be better here.


The 59AVi exhibits unusual behavior on the Film Detail test on the HQV Benchmark
DVD. It actually passes the Film Detail test, locking in on the racetrack grandstand in about the same time frame as the Faroudja players. But, and this is what is so unusual - if you activate the on-screen display of the player for any reason (audio / video adjustment, time retrieval, whatever), it will not pass the test after you have done so unless you power the unit off, then on again. I had to see it for myself to believe it, but it's there for you to see.

I have an August 2004 build date on my unit, with the 506 firmware.

I would be interested to see if this behavior is consistent with other 59AVi owners who have the HQV Benchmark DVD available for testing their player.

Info on the new Pioneer player:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=556860

The 59AVi exhibits unusual behavior on the Film Detail test on the HQV Benchmark
DVD. It actually passes the Film Detail test, locking in on the racetrack grandstand in about the same time frame as the Faroudja players. But, and this is what is so unusual - if you activate the on-screen display of the player for any reason (audio / video adjustment, time retrieval, whatever), it will not pass the test after you have done so unless you power the unit off, then on again. I had to see it for myself to believe it, but it's there for you to see.

I have an August 2004 build date on my unit, with the 506 firmware.

I would be interested to see if this behavior is consistent with other 59AVi owners who have the HQV Benchmark DVD available for testing their player.

wow u really found it ! I knew I managed to get it passed a few times but I had never been able to repeat it. This is it ! After a power-off it will pass the test. And as soon as it does any on-screen display it fails. This is completely reproduceable !

I'm on 506 Mar 05 build. (I used to have a very early 306 Dec 2003 build, but I didn't try on it)

The only thing I can think of is, since it needs to do overlay of the image for the on screen display, maybe it somehow locks down to a certain mode of the deinterlacer.

Strange, very strange.

:confused:

Very interesting! I wondered why It did so poorly since it has been rumored to have a Sil 503 or 504 chip.
Wonder how many have purchased a scaler thinking they had a poor deinterlacing player!
There should be a fix for this as soon as possible I would hope?

Very interesting! I wondered why It did so poorly since it has been rumored to have a Sil 503 or 504 chip.
Wonder how many have purchased a scaler thinking they had a poor deinterlacing player!
There should be a fix for this as soon as possible I would hope?

u know pioneer has never been open to almost anything technical on their players. And there are lots of things mysterious abt the way it works. For example , the Chroma ICP/3:2 alternate error. Yes It failed in both auto1/2. But putting it to "ON" passes. (See this in DVE mpeg decoder test. Very obvious.) So it cannot be an inherent mpeg decoder fault. Looks like "ON" mode has something on the decoder/deinterlacer that neither auto1 or 2 has.

Now with this even more strange OSD affecting deinterlacer performance ...

(btw I think the HQV film detail test is quite a hard test. quite some Faroudja based players failed)

Another strange bit of behavior detected on the 59AVi using the HQV Benchmark. On the 3:2 Film mixed with added video titles, the player fails the Horizontal Text Crawl part of the test (noticeable combing on the text). This is in Auto 1 or Auto 2. But, if you play the test in manual mode, where the test just keeps looping until you advance it to the next test, the 59AVi PASSES the same test when it restarts the test for a 2nd time! The Vertical Text Crawl passes regardless, but it is very unusual to see the player fail a test twice (each of the text crawl tests plays twice per cycle), and then pass it when it comes around for the repeat cycle.

Any other owners see this on their machines as well? I am more convinced than ever that the 59AVi is an outstanding machine that could use some further refinement in its deinterlacing structure / discipline. ;)

Another strange bit of behavior detected on the 59AVi using the HQV Benchmark. On the 3:2 Film mixed with added video titles, the player fails the Horizontal Text Crawl part of the test (noticeable combing on the text). This is in Auto 1 or Auto 2. But, if you play the test in manual mode, where the test just keeps looping until you advance it to the next test, the 59AVi PASSES the same test when it restarts the test for a 2nd time! The Vertical Text Crawl passes regardless, but it is very unusual to see the player fail a test twice (each of the text crawl tests plays twice per cycle), and then pass it when it comes around for the repeat cycle.

Any other owners see this on their machines as well? I am more convinced than ever that the 59AVi is an outstanding machine that could use some further refinement in its deinterlacing structure / discipline. ;)

actually I remember in Auto2 it passes while in the 1st loop, just not immediately. (I can double check this ) My understanding is it takes a while to realize it has a video running text to fall into the proper mode. Again I was unable to repeat the exact time it locks. Some times earlier some times later.

AUTO1 and AUTO2 are cadence based modes and as such do take some time to lock up to the source. Realistically, you would not really encounter such a situation when watching any half-decently mastered DVD.

Auto 1 is flag reading, Auto 2 is cadence.

Very interesting! I wondered why It did so poorly since it has been rumored to have a Sil 503 or 504 chip.
Wonder how many have purchased a scaler thinking they had a poor deinterlacing player!
There should be a fix for this as soon as possible I would hope?

Hopefully before the 79AVi comes out! :D

AUTO1 and AUTO2 are cadence based modes and as such do take some time to lock up to the source. Realistically, you would not really encounter such a situation when watching any half-decently mastered DVD.

Yeah, the 3:2 Film mixed with added video titles is not a critical test for the player to ace, but the results give some insight to the speed of the processing taking place. That's what interests me. The Oppo DV971H, for example, never displays combing on either the Horizontal or Vertical text crawl since it picks up the cadence immediately.

The HQV Benchmark is a helpful tool for evaluating DVD players and displays, but performance on the tests reflect just a portion of a machine's overall quality.

While the deinterlacing performance of the 59AVi may not match that of a Faroudja based player, its' performance was better than I expected from a proprietary solution. Motion Adaptive performance is excellent, Noise Reduction does a very good job without noticeably degrading detail, and results on the tortuous group of cadence detection sequences chosen was more than respectable. All in all, the Benchmark does more to identify the 59AVi as a premium player (without macroblocking) than to reveal any crippling flaws. :)

The 59AVi exhibits unusual behavior on the Film Detail test on the HQV Benchmark
DVD. It actually passes the Film Detail test, locking in on the racetrack grandstand in about the same time frame as the Faroudja players. But, and this is what is so unusual - if you activate the on-screen display of the player for any reason (audio / video adjustment, time retrieval, whatever), it will not pass the test after you have done so unless you power the unit off, then on again.


AlieniceT: I'm guessing that the "on-sreen display" includes the blue bar that pops up when you change chapters with the "next chapter" button. Is that correct?

Thanks for the information.
-Reagan

AlieniceT: I'm guessing that the "on-sreen display" includes the blue bar that pops up when you change chapters with the "next chapter" button. Is that correct?

Thanks for the information.
-Reagan

Reagan,
Actually, hitting the "next" or "previous" chapter button does not trigger the behavior on the 59AVi that occurs if you hit the "display", "audio" or "video adjust" keys. You can pause the player too and it will still pass this Film Detail test on the HQV disc. If you stop play, however, the player will fail once you go back into play. Turning off the on screen display on the options page will minimize the number of ways you can trigger this result on the 59AVi. You can hit the Stop and Audio buttons and not cause it to change its' deinterlacing performance. It's quirky behavior that should be easy to correct if Pioneer wants to release a firmware update on this player.

Yeah, the 3:2 Film mixed with added video titles is not a critical test for the player to ace, but the results give some insight to the speed of the processing taking place. That's what interests me. The Oppo DV971H, for example, never displays combing on either the Horizontal or Vertical text crawl since it picks up the cadence immediately.

The HQV Benchmark is a helpful tool for evaluating DVD players and displays, but performance on the tests reflect just a portion of a machine's overall quality.

While the deinterlacing performance of the 59AVi may not match that of a Faroudja based player, its' performance was better than I expected from a proprietary solution. Motion Adaptive performance is excellent, Noise Reduction does a very good job without noticeably degrading detail, and results on the tortuous group of cadence detection sequences chosen was more than respectable. All in all, the Benchmark does more to identify the 59AVi as a premium player (without macroblocking) than to reveal any crippling flaws. :)

Nice post. :)

Got my HQV disk yesterday... have not yet had time to play with it much, but I will today and post my results... :)

Got my HQV disk yesterday... have not yet had time to play with it much, but I will today and post my results... :)

:cool:

OK, So I ran through the disk a few times and here are my observations...

First of all regarding the flaky behavior with the film detail (race car scene) test. First pass through the tests, the player passed every time. No issues in syncing to the sequence at all. I hit the display button and the test started failing as had been reported. I powered off the player and turned it back on and let it auto-resume to the same scene and it passed. I then let the test run through to the horizontal text mixed 3:2 flag scene and the test failed the first 2 times through the loop as the horizontal text showed combing. Just for kicks, I went back to the race car scene and the test still passed. I then let the horizontal text test play and the test passed on the third loop though. Thereafter it passed every time. HOWEVER, now the player would not pass the film detail test anymore. So basically for me either using the DISPLAY or letting the player lock to the horizontal text test causes the film detail test to fail. A power off/on fixes it, but it then takes two cycles of the horizontal text test to pass... strange...

The various cadence tests seemed to be fine for the most part. I noticed no combing or jaggies, but there was a slight loss of detail in some of the cadences.

The noise reduction tests showed that the 59avi performs pretty well in my opinion. The flag test and picture detail test also looked just fine as did the color bar test.

The jaggies tests were in the middle for me. The first one showed jaggies in the bar around 15 degrees or so. The second jaggies test showed that the first two lines were fine, but the third was not.

Just for kicks, I tested my display with the player set to 480i... My display passed the color bar test. The jaggies test went over not so well as there was combing present around 30 degrees but smoothed out at lower angles. The next test and the flag test were fine as well as the picture detail test. The noise reduction test really showed a big difference though. There was a significant amount of noise with the display being fed 480i as compared to 720p. The film detail test could not be passed at all. The cadence tests as well required a manual switch between auto film mode and video mode on the display to pass. The Mixed horizontal test passed at times, and failed most of the time.

Overall, the 59avi does not seem to have any major flaws or errors other than some quirky behavior with the film detail and mixed 3:2 horizontal text test. I'd be interested in hearing other peoples results with their HQV disk and 59avi for all the tests...

I'm looking at purchasing this player but just read that it will not work with a DVI switcher. Can someone confirm if this is true. Thanks.

Overall, the 59avi does not seem to have any major flaws or errors other than some quirky behavior with the film detail and mixed 3:2 horizontal text test. I'd be interested in hearing other peoples results with their HQV disk and 59avi for all the tests...

Exactly the results that I experienced. Nice summary. :)

I wonder if the horizontal text scroll test has something to do with regards to the on screen display and that test causing the film detail test to fail. In what I noticed, as long as the player does not lock on to the horizontal text scroll, then the film detail test will always pass. This holds true as long as you do not use an on screen menu as well. However, once the player locks to the horizontal text scroll, it does not ever pass the film detail test again. I wonder if the on screen display is is triggering a similar condition with mixed 3:2 flags locking the player out of a certain detection mode causing the film detail test to fail. I have not tried toggling the pure cinema mode processing on/off to see if that somehow makes a difference... who knows... it very well may do something...

So it sounds like that if I turn off the on-screen menus and avoid video with a horizontal scroll (which shouldn't be a problem), the 59avi will work as advertised.

-Reagan

So it sounds like that if I turn off the on-screen menus and avoid video with a horizontal scroll (which shouldn't be a problem), the 59avi will work as advertised.

-Reagan

Are you actually seeing the changes seen on this test disk when watching regular material? I'm certainly not seeing any changes after bringing up the on screen menu. I'm not saying the changes don't occur, I just don't see them. I'm very pleased with the 59Avi and am so glad I don't let some of what I read alter that enjoyment.

Jerry,

I'm not seeing any changes at all. I'm just being paranoid. But if it's an easy fix (I was never wild about on screen stuff for everyday useage), then I'll do it. I know it doesn't make any sense.

-Reagan

I'm looking at purchasing this player but just read that it will not work with a DVI switcher. Can someone confirm if this is true. Thanks.
Works here just fine.
Where did you read this misinformation?

Works here just fine.
Where did you read this misinformation?


As long as the switcher is HDCP compliant, it should work fine.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=553612

Thread on 59 AVI and switchers

Hey Evan!

So did you wind up buying a 59avi?

Hey Rob,

Nice to bump into you! I still do not have my new system set up yet :( . I was holding off until Anthem came out with the upgrades for the D1. I am done with that. I will order the IR 1.7 this week to go with my new speakers (Pardadigm Sig's). SO, I need to order a 59 AVI at long last. I would hold off for the new one, but I am sooooooo sick of waiting for new gear to come out.

Thanks for the shootout you had at your home. It was not only much fun, but really helped me learn a lot. I might of gone with the Onyko SP 1000 (just to match the IR 7.1), but not with the lip sync issue. Its also less $$$. I will be using IEEE/1394 for audio. I should be up and running in a few weeks. Although it will never be as glorious as your 110" screen :D (56" now looks so small!)

I hope all is well with you,

Evan

Hey Rob,

Nice to bump into you! I still do not have my new system set up yet :( . I was holding off until Anthem came out with the upgrades for the D1. I am done with that. I will order the IR 1.7 this week to go with my new speakers (Pardadigm Sig's). SO, I need to order a 59 AVI at long last. I would hold off for the new one, but I am sooooooo sick of waiting for new gear to come out.

Thanks for the shootout you had at your home. It was not only much fun, but really helped me learn a lot. I might of gone with the Onyko SP 1000 (just to match the IR 7.1), but not with the lip sync issue. Its also less $$$. I will be using IEEE/1394 for audio. I should be up and running in a few weeks. Although it will never be as glorious as your 110" screen :D (56" now looks so small!)

I hope all is well with you,

Evan

I know what you mean about getting sick of waiting for new gear, it gets old fast!

You will have a big advantage from an audio standpoint in being able to use the 1394 connection. Sweet!

As for the glory of a 110 inch screen, ehem, it is actually 123 inches! :cool:

I got Pioneer Elite 59avi DVD player in earlier today and after
hooking it up a little earlier compared a variety of DVD scenes
I had observed MacroBlocking on with Denon DVD-3910 and
61 in. Samsung 1080p DLP. Here are first impressions:

The Denon DVD-3910 does appear to be a better built component
and looks more impressive in my rack then the Pioneer Elite 59avi.
I also like the 3910 remote better then the jog style remote of 59avi -
hopefully I can learn to like it.

I was not getting BTB “out of the box” so I changed NRE from 0 to 7.5
( and also switched to auto2 per the recommendation of “secrets” ).
The 59avi is now passing blacker than black. I have made no
other changes to any settings, i.e. all other settings are at
default.

I have observed absolutely no MacroBlocking from the 59avi! This
is what I was hoping for even though the 3910 wasn't extremely
bad. My new 1080p DLP really excels in shadow detail so having
annoying purple spots on the shadow detail from time to time
was not my ideal situation but was going to live with the MB if the 59avi
did not deliver the “goods” :-)

PQ appears *slightly* sharper on the 3910 then the 59avi but both
are definitely in the same ball park. Denon seems just a tad darker
on scenes then the 59avi - I don't know why this is so but again
this is pretty much out of the box so the corresponding adjustments
may be at different defaults.

The Pioneer 59avi has delivered the goods and is definitely a “keeper”.

Now to watch the ultimate dark scene torture test: Dark City :-)

Glad to hear you like the Pio Elite Tony.

Now go tell all your Samsung 1080p pals the good news! :)

By the way, you will never learn to like the Pioneer remote. It sucks, plain and simple. You might want to invest in a good quality universal remote.

Glad to hear you like the Pio Elite Tony.

Now go tell all your Samsung 1080p pals the good news! :)

By the way, you will never learn to like the Pioneer remote. It sucks, plain and simple. You might want to invest in a good quality universal remote.

I posted a link to my first impressions post on the Samsung 1080p owners thread.

Just saw it!

Works here just fine.
Where did you read this misinformation?

I cannot post any links yet but I read it here on the forum yesterday. A member (rboster) made the comment in reply to another member in the "For Sale Marketplace" forum. He is selling a Dtronics DVI switcher w/HDCP. . Here is part of his quote:

Gary: It depends on the source component. My Pioneer 59avi would not work with any DVI switchers, including this one.

I will take the word of the members in this 59 AVI thread that have had success using a switcher w/HDCP.

Thanks for your help.

...By the way, you will never learn to like the Pioneer remote. It sucks, plain and simple. You might want to invest in a good quality universal remote.

I've gradually gotten used to the joystick thingy, but it is snarky at times, and you have to be pointing the remote directly at the player for it to register. I've found a few shortcuts that are probably already obvious to smarter people on this thread:

1) When turning on/off subtitles, I at first thought you had to press Subtitle, push down on the joystick, then select from the Subtitle menu. Now I know I can just repeatedly hit Subtitle to scroll through the Subtitle menu.

2) After activating a display such as Subtitle, it seems to take an eternity for the display to clear from the screen, but you can press Return to immediately clear the display.

However, I still think it's exceedingly stupid design to not have buttons on the remote for Pure Audio and to switch from SACD Multi to SACD 2CH to CD layers. I have to get down on hands and knees and feel around on the front of the unit for Audio Direct, and go through the menu options to switch the SACD options.

Regards,
Doug

I've gradually gotten used to the joystick thingy, but it is snarky at times, and you have to be pointing the remote directly at the player for it to register. I've found a few shortcuts that are probably already obvious to smarter people on this thread:

1) When turning on/off subtitles, I at first thought you had to press Subtitle, push down on the joystick, then select from the Subtitle menu. Now I know I can just repeatedly hit Subtitle to scroll through the Subtitle menu.

2) After activating a display such as Subtitle, it seems to take an eternity for the display to clear from the screen, but you can press Return to immediately clear the display.

However, I still think it's exceedingly stupid design to not have buttons on the remote for Pure Audio and to switch from SACD Multi to SACD 2CH to CD layers. I have to get down on hands and knees and feel around on the front of the unit for Audio Direct, and go through the menu options to switch the SACD options.

Regards,
Doug


In other words, the remote "just plain sucks"!

;)

In other words, the remote "just plain sucks"!

;)

I think the equipment manufacturers all own stock in the universal remote companies. They design crappy remotes so that they can make money from their investments. :)

Bob

i love the remote and think it is very easy to use.

i love the remote and think it is very easy to use.

Definitely the first time that I have EVER heard that!

Even if you like the layout of the remote (which I think is terrible), you still have to deal with the fact you have to aim the remote directly at the player for it to work. If you aim just a little to high or low, it wont work. This is a real pain, especially when you have the player behind you in the back of the room.

Problem solved as soon as I plugged the commands into my Home Theater Master MX-700! :)

I don't like the remote either. But I have another solution. ;)

I have had Pio players for a long time: 414, 333, 05, 45a, 47ai, 59avi.

The best remote out of all of those was the remote for the 333. No joy stick: individual buttons for up down left right. I still had the 333 when I got the 05. The remote for the 333 worked with the 05. So I bought another remote like that from Pio. The best $40 I've ever spent. I have continued to use that remote with all subsequent players. Works for 99% of what I use the 59AVi for.

The remote is ok for me... nothing great, but it does its job. It does have a narrow range of operation though.

How is the Harmony Remote with the 59avi?

The remote is ok for me... nothing great, but it does its job. It does have a narrow range of operation though.


The crappy range was my biggest grip about it. A good universal will make the player super responsive. I'm using a HTM MX700 at the moment, but have an MX850 sitting on my desk waiting to be programmed. In all fairness, almost ALL DVD remotes suck. The only one from recent memory that I thought was OK was the Panasonic DVD-RP91 remote. It also had a joystick.

The crappy range was my biggest grip about it. A good universal will make the player super responsive. I'm using a HTM MX700 at the moment, but have an MX850 sitting on my desk waiting to be programmed. In all fairness, almost ALL DVD remotes suck.
...


Agreed.

I also think that a good universal remote (such as the HTM MX700 and MX850's) are worth every penny. They really add to the enjoyment of the home theater by making life much more simple.

How is the Harmony Remote with the 59avi?
I have the Harmony 680 remote and it works very well with the 59avi as well as the rest of my equipment.

panasonic th50phd7uy plasma
pioneer elite 56txi receiver
pioneer elite 59avi dvd player
comcast stb

I got around the remote issue by utilizing the Pioneer SR system. I bought two cables and connected the VSX-55TXi, DV-59AVi and CLD-D704 together and if I point the remote using either the 59AVi's or the 55TXi's (I have the 59AVi programmed into it) at the receiver it works like a charm. Cost me $30 for the two cables buying them directly from Pioneer though.

I got around the remote issue by utilizing the Pioneer SR system. I bought two cables and connected the VSX-55TXi, DV-59AVi and CLD-D704 together and if I point the remote using either the 59AVi's or the 55TXi's (I have the 59AVi programmed into it) at the receiver it works like a charm. Cost me $30 for the two cables buying them directly from Pioneer though.

I did something similar, but routed both the 59Avi and 55Txi into my 1110HD plasma, hence I can run all three by pointing at the IR receiver on the front of the display. I then mounted a wireless IR transceiver from Radio Shack ($50 CDN) to point at the front of the plasma. This allows me to control the receiver and DVD player from a different room in the house. Why did I do this? I'm using the 55Txi to run a pair of speakers in a different room. I can sit in that other room and control both the receiver (e.g., volume, etc.) and the DVD player (e.g., CD track, etc.) via the wireless IR system.

Note that you don't need the Pio cables to use the SR system. All you need are cheap stereo mini-jack cables. I picked up a pair of 6' cables for $5 each at a dollar store.

Ross

Note that you don't need the Pio cables to use the SR system. All you need are cheap stereo mini-jack cables. I picked up a pair of 6' cables for $5 each at a dollar store.

Yeah I figured that out after the fact. I went to Best Buy looking for mini-jack cables and they had no idea what I was talking about. Same day I got the email reply from Pioneer giving their part#. I was so fustrated using the remote that I bit the bullet and just ordered the cables.

Yeah I figured that out after the fact. I went to Best Buy looking for mini-jack cables and they had no idea what I was talking about. Same day I got the email reply from Pioneer giving their part#. I was so fustrated using the remote that I bit the bullet and just ordered the cables.

I'm a huge fan of Pioneer (1110HD plasma, 59Avi player, 55Txi receiver) but charging $30 for a pair of stereo mini-jack cables is a "bit" of a rip-off.

As a public service, if anyone else is hunting around for stereo mini-jacks to chain their equipment together, print out this picture and show it to your local blue-shirtted dude:

http://www.triplebit.com/images/Cable2.jpg

The leads are 1/8" or 3.5 mm, and have two black bands on the ends (there are also one-band and three-band versions, but the two-band are the most common and work like a charm).

Note that I understand some of the very latest Pioneer SR+ equipment will take advantage of a three-band stereo mini-jack to permit even more interconnection control (e.g., the receiver's volume control will "take over" the display's on-screen volume indicator, etc.) but I have no direct experience with this.

Ross

Any word on plans for replacing the 59avi? I'd like to get one but worry about new players being announced at Cedia.

Any word on plans for replacing the 59avi? I'd like to get one but worry about new players being announced at Cedia.

I've heard the new model is going to be like a 79AVi. The big thing that I've heard is that it eliminates the "que" bug.

I'd make my decision now on what your current AV equipment is and what you want to spend. When I bought my DV-59AVi I got it for $978 (I know it's cheaper now) and I was happy with the deal at the time. I really don't see myself spending $1600 on a DVD player ever (well maybe when HD-DVD comes out).

So if the lower price as well as the features of the 59 are making it attractive for you, go for it. If you think the 79 is a better fit and you are willing to spend the dough, then wait.

I've heard the new model is going to be like a 79AVi. The big thing that I've heard is that it eliminates the "que" bug.

I'd make my decision now on what your current AV equipment is and what you want to spend. When I bought my DV-59AVi I got it for $978 (I know it's cheaper now) and I was happy with the deal at the time. I really don't see myself spending $1600 on a DVD player ever (well maybe when HD-DVD comes out).

So if the lower price as well as the features of the 59 are making it attractive for you, go for it. If you think the 79 is a better fit and you are willing to spend the dough, then wait.

Good point, price/value relationship is very high right now. Forgive my ignorance though, what is the "que" bug?

Good point, price/value relationship is very high right now. Forgive my ignorance though, what is the "que" bug?

It's the thing where the reds can be too strong and kinda bleed. The DV-59AVi exhibits it on a very minor scale compared to other players. However if you use the HDMI hookup (I use a HDMI adapter to a DVI-D cable to my TV's DVI port) there's no que bug anyway.

I've had the SDI mod performed on my 59AVI. I have one question: the Detail control does not seem to affect the picture, but the Mid & High sharpness certainly do. What should I be looking for when adjusting the Detail control?

Thunder- Referenced a few pages back:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=556860

I've had the SDI mod performed on my 59AVI. I have one question: the Detail control does not seem to affect the picture, but the Mid & High sharpness certainly do. What should I be looking for when adjusting the Detail control?

Mike, why did you mod the player when it has hdmi 480i out? Scaler or projector couldn't accept it or is there another reason? Just curious. Thanks.

Thunder- Referenced a few pages back:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=556860

Thanks for the link Kevin, very informative.

Hey guys! Look what I found:

http://www.quebecaudio.com/forums/uploads/post-613-1123530621.jpg

Direct stream video is a new feature. 480i over HDMI totally untouch and unprocessed. No filters, no treatment.

Perfect for a scaler!

Am I losing it, where do you see mention of direct stream video? How would the HDMI output of this unit at 480i differ from the existing unit?

The 59avi was not totally "pure", there was still some filtering and different things done on the HDMI output at 480i. Probably only some "minor" things, but still some processing.

The Pioneer representative that gave me this picture also told me about the "Direct Stream" video personnally, and told me the signal will come directly from the MPEG decoder (like an SDI-mod) w/o any processing or filtering at all. It's not on the list, but it was confirmed to me.

Thanks for the clarification. Sounds positive but I wonder how much of a difference it will make. Is this unit going to be shown at Cedia?

As I understand it, the quality of the MPEG decoder has a material impact on the quality of the digital output. Any improvement in that area on this unit?

As I understand it, the quality of the MPEG decoder has a material impact on the quality of the digital output. Any improvement in that area on this unit?
The brochure says "True Chroma Up-sampling Error Reduction." I think that's their way of saying they fixed the CUE problem.

--
Steve

Levesque thanks for sharing the brochure. Did they say when it will be available?

Levesque thanks for sharing the brochure. Did they say when it will be available?

October, probably near the end of the month.

Levesque- Yes, thank you !! :)

I just purchased a 59AVI refirb unit to hook up to my 50" Elite plasma. Do these come with a really good HDMI cable? The price was very right. Should I calibrate with which disc? My PDP is like 300 hrs. new. Never had it calibrated either. Or, should I just call a Cal Specialist to come in and do both. When I purchased the PDP the dlr. didn't feel it needed any calibration. What are you guys opinions? Thanks ray.

Congrats on the 59 purchase. Mine did not come with an HDMI cable, I use a Monster piece, although ther are tons of other options. You should definitely invest in a setup/cal disc, either Digital Video Essentials or Avia, although Avia is easier to navigate. IMO, all displays can benefit from calibration. Start with 1 of the discs and get to know the set yourslf, then seriously consider a professional calibration, especially since the Elite PDP's have an ISF mode for calibrators.

I just purchased a 59AVI refirb unit to hook up to my 50" Elite plasma. Do these come with a really good HDMI cable? The price was very right. Should I calibrate with which disc? My PDP is like 300 hrs. new. Never had it calibrated either. Or, should I just call a Cal Specialist to come in and do both. When I purchased the PDP the dlr. didn't feel it needed any calibration. What are you guys opinions? Thanks ray.

You can certainly get a top quality image on the 50" Elites without ISF calibration, but it is worth taking a bit of time tweaking the user settings yourself. Have a read of this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=490619&highlight=1110

where Pio owners have been posting their own settings (myself included).

Ross

The benefit of ISF is knowing you are calibrated as close as possible to D6500 to match film based DVDs. Although some people do that and don't like the way it looks! :)

larry

You can certainly get a top quality image on the 50" Elites without ISF calibration, but it is worth taking a bit of time tweaking the user settings yourself. Have a read of this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=490619&highlight=1110

where Pio owners have been posting their own settings (myself included).

Ross

Ross, can you post your current settings for your 59 AVI. What does the sound pressure level meter do? Thanks, ray

Did anybody else notice how much bigger the new DVD player is in that brochure. It's listed at over 20" wide, 9" high, and 17" D. The 59 is about 17" wide 6" high and 14 or so " deep. Those measurements, make it as big as a flagship receiver. I wonder if they made a typo or if they really did make it that much bigger. That 20+" wide could be a squeeze in some racks, as every piece of equipment I've looked at so far has been 19" or less. I'm having a carpenter friend build a rack for me at 21.5 inches wide to give me a little extra room, but the existing rack installed by the previous owner had 19.5" W shelves.

I think you're looking at the carton size. The unit itself is about 16.5 x 4.6 x 13.4 inches.

I have the opportunity to purchase a DV-59 at a very good price, under $700. Do you think it is worth waiting for the new model, which I understand won't be available until November? What are the real differences if I am not a true audiophile, but just want a great picture?

Thanks in advance.

There will be a huge street price difference compared to your deal. Why wait unless you want the very best.

Get a great unit now at a great price, or a slightly better unit at a much higher price several months later. The choice is yours!

Get a great unit now at a great price, or a slightly better unit at a much higher price several months later. The choice is yours!

Or a great unit even cheaper when some of the 59AVi owners upgrade?
to the 79AVi :-)

Or a great unit even cheaper when some of the 59AVi owners upgrade?
to the 79AVi :-)

Yea, but here's the thing to consider. I got my 59avi a few months ago. I knew a newer version was coming out. But what was it that I knew about the current version and about the next version that made me decide not to wait? Yup. The ROMS. The 59Avi has already had some revisions and should be fairly mature at this point. What always happens with a new version? Yup, it'll take a year or so for all the bugs to be fixed. Those who buy the 79Avi now may go through a lot of frustration trying to figure out how they'll deal with the inevitable bugs and getting the fixes.

Yea, but here's the thing to consider. I got my 59avi a few months ago. I knew a newer version was coming out. But what was it that I knew about the current version and about the next version that made me decide not to wait? Yup. The ROMS. The 59Avi has already had some revisions and should be fairly mature at this point. What always happens with a new version? Yup, it'll take a year or so for all the bugs to be fixed. Those who buy the 79Avi now may go through a lot of frustration trying to figure out how they'll deal with the inevitable bugs and getting the fixes.

Good point. I will be waiting a few revs :-)

Yea, but here's the thing to consider. I got my 59avi a few months ago. I knew a newer version was coming out. But what was it that I knew about the current version and about the next version that made me decide not to wait? Yup. The ROMS. The 59Avi has already had some revisions and should be fairly mature at this point. What always happens with a new version? Yup, it'll take a year or so for all the bugs to be fixed. Those who buy the 79Avi now may go through a lot of frustration trying to figure out how they'll deal with the inevitable bugs and getting the fixes.

True to a point, but the 59avi was remarkably trouble/bug free pretty much from the beginning.

Yes. No one has ever actually figured out what the differences in firmware ever was between the 3 versions that we know about. After, Pioneer isn't Denon. ;)

Hey Guys,
I just purchased the Elite DV-59AVi and am extremely happy with it. I kow it plays DVD-R but does it play Dual Layer DVD-R or +R? If so, which ones? Thanks guys.
-Evangelo2

Hey Guys,
I just purchased the Elite DV-59AVi and am extremely happy with it. I kow it plays DVD-R but does it play Dual Layer DVD-R or +R? If so, which ones? Thanks guys.
-Evangelo2

My 59AVi plays DVD+R DL discs fine. Don't have any DVD-R DL discs as of yet. But YMMV depending on your burning software. I use DVD Decrypter in ISO mode.

hi,
can anyone direct me to a trustworthy vendor selling a new 59avi for less than $700?
also, where is it made in?
thanks!
scottie

Thanks AlieniceT!

I will give it a shot tonight :)

Just wanted to double check before I drop some cash on DL disc.

-Evangelo2

For those interested, I just received a pre-production 79avi, and will try it besides my 59avi this week-end...

Levesque I look forward to reading your comparison.

For those interested, I just received a pre-production 79avi, and will try it besides my 59avi this week-end...

Sweet!

Look forward to your comments

From what I've read on these forums, the general consensus seems to be that leaving the in-player picture adjustments at default (for the Direct mode) will leave the picture the most undisturbed.

Does anyone know how true this is with the sharpness controls? To clarify, I'm wondering if the centered, default setting applies no sharpening, or what degree of sharpening otherwise. If it applies no sharpening, are settings lower than center effectively blurring the image?

I realize it's "what looks best" that matters, but of course it's difficult to change a setting, then watch all different types of content to get a feel for the overall effect. :) Btw, I'm viewing over HDMI.

LEVESQUE, I'm especially looking forward to your impressions of 480i performance over HDMI.

MIke

A misc. question:

Does 59AVi play single-layer DVD+R discs well? I searched this thread and found early posts saying 59AVi is playing them well even though only DVD-R playback are guaranteed. Do you owners of 59AVi have same experience/opinions? Anybody with different experience?

Does 59AVi play single-layer DVD+R discs well?

I play these on my 59avi with no problem.

Mike

The DVD-R are a more difficult problem in my experience. Some will play, some will not, depending on how they were authored.

The DVD-R are a more difficult problem in my experience. Some will play, some will not, depending on how they were authored.

Wow, do you mean that 59AVi plays DVD+R better even though the manual says DVD-R is guaranteed while DVD+R is not mentioned? Could you clarify?

Yes, I should have clarified my response.

I do NOT have any personal experience with the DVD+R discs. I DO have personal experience with the DVD-R's. Many of my DVD-R's play just fine, but nearly as many do not. I can tell you exactly which ones will play (and which will not) based on how the particular disc was authored.

I have only ever tried -R, but haven't had any problems. A lot of times, it can also depend on the machine that wrote the discs, and who made the media.

Levesque- Let us know!! :) You can test for 480i out HDMI too, right? (Too make sure that is still available.)

I have some good news.

I was able to play all night with the 79avi. There is a new video preset called "Direct". When outputting 480i, you can use this "Direct" setting, and then there is no video adjustement possible. So it's really a "direct" stream w/o any settings.

The picture was really something. Better then the 59avi to my eyes. But don't forget it's only some preliminary results, and on a pre-production unit. Nothing serious for now. Just looking to some well known scenes and having fun with the new toy.

I will try the audio side tomorrow.

BTW, the 79avi is bigger and heavier. Reminds me of the Denon 5900 for the size. RCA connectors are also of higher quality, particularly those for the 2ch audio.

The tray is also "smoother" and making less noise. The built quality of the 79avi is definitely higher. Bigger, heavier, and with a better tray.

LEVESQUE

Thanks for the preview. Can't wait to hear more!

Mike

LEVESQUE,

79avi in "Direct" mode sounds like exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks for the info. When does it become generally available?

Will Pioneer have a booth at CEDIA?

Thanks,
Ken

When does it become generally available?
Will Pioneer have a booth at CEDIA?


I'm not working for Pioneer so I don't really know. :D They told me at the end of october, beginning of november. For CEDIA, I don't know.

IMHO, the 79avi is now the closest thing to the "ultimate" digital transport... 480i over HDMI "Direct", HDMI 1.1, firewire... ;)

I just read in another thread where Chris Walker of Pioneer said they will announce the ship date at Cedia.

I'll definitely be visiting their booth to have a look!

Ken

IMHO, the 79avi is now the closest thing to the "ultimate" digital transport... 480i over HDMI "Direct", HDMI 1.1, firewire... ;)

How is the layer change?

--
Steve

Good question: any difference in the layer change vs the 59AVi?

Levesque- You are one lucky soul. :)

Levesque does it have the chroma bug?

I need to know about CUE as well. The only problem I have with my Pio-727 changer.

Thanks,
Ken

Has anyone created a MXD file for their Pioneer Elite 59AVi that works
on the HTM MX-700? If so, would you mind sharing it?

Hi Guys,

I have my 59Avi set to "Direct" mode. Where do I change my "IRE" setting? I can't seem to find it in the menu.

What is the recommended setting? 0 or 7.5?

Thanks in advance!

-Brian

Has anyone created a MXD file for their Pioneer Elite 59AVi that works
on the HTM MX-700? If so, would you mind sharing it?

From post #1 in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4782551#post4782551

Note that I can't yet verify how well this works.

From post #1 in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4782551#post4782551

Note that I can't yet verify how well this works.

Thanks Rob - I read the first post some time ago and did not recall
it being there. Thanks again!

I'm not working for Pioneer so I don't really know. :D They told me at the end of october, beginning of november. For CEDIA, I don't know.

IMHO, the 79avi is now the closest thing to the "ultimate" digital transport... 480i over HDMI "Direct", HDMI 1.1, firewire... ;)

LEVESQUE,

The suspense is killing me! How do you like the 79avi, is it a new and improved 59avi?

Thanks for any info, Bill

Yes, I should have clarified my response.

I do NOT have any personal experience with the DVD+R discs. I DO have personal experience with the DVD-R's. Many of my DVD-R's play just fine, but nearly as many do not. I can tell you exactly which ones will play (and which will not) based on how the particular disc was authored.

Rob,

Thank you for your reply. Is it dependent on what DVD burning/authoring program I used?

I use the same software for all my DVD-R's, but depending on which method I used with that software, the disc may or may not play.

What version fo HDMI does the 59AVi have? I thought it was 1.1.
It does pass audio (2ch) along with video, correct?

I only ask because my Pio Plasma is coming this Saturay and I want to have 1 cable (HDMI) going to it for both audio and video. I then want to have the Optical Digital Cable going to my receiver for multi-channel audio... This is only until I save up enough change to get the Elite 74TXi receiver :)

-Evangelo2

Does anyone know if it's possible to have this player put subtitles inside the image area? Some 2.35:1 movies place the sub-titles in the unused area below of a 16:9 screen. I'm thinking of a constant height screen setup with front projection. In this setup there wouldn't be any bars below the image for the sub-titles to display.

The built quality of the 79avi is definitely higher. Bigger, heavier, and with a better tray.

Can you post the dimensions? (I want to see if it will fit in my rack)

Tony

What version fo HDMI does the 59AVi have? I thought it was 1.1.
It does pass audio (2ch) along with video, correct?

I only ask because my Pio Plasma is coming this Saturay and I want to have 1 cable (HDMI) going to it for both audio and video. I then want to have the Optical Digital Cable going to my receiver for multi-channel audio... This is only until I save up enough change to get the Elite 74TXi receiver :)

-Evangelo2

On the Pioneer Web site it says the following about the DV-59AVi and HDMI:

HDMI (High Definition MultiMedia Interface) (Video, DTS, and Dolby Digital Output, LPCM-2ch)

A new type of all-digital output called a High Definition Multimedia Interface, or HDMI. This high-bandwidth interface allows huge amounts of very high quality data—both video and audio—to be output at high rates of speed, up to 5 GBps. And it doesn’t perform unnecessary D/A and A/D conversions, so the signal remains in a pure, digital state, and this lossless process ensures the highest quality level. HDMI offers plug-and-play capability and accommodates all of the current ATSC digital television formats, plus it supports up to eight channels of audio.

So you will only need to use one cable to the Pioneer Plasma.

When you get your VSX-74TXi, you'll love the iLink for audio. It's fantastic!

Can you post the dimensions? (I want to see if it will fit in my rack)

Tony
Hi Tony,

W x H x D: 16.54" x 4.61" x 13.39"

The 59AVi has 1.0 HDMI. The new machine will have 1.1. Some plasmas are not able to pull the audio of off the HDMI cable. You might not know what's going to happen until you hook everything up.

From post #1 in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4782551#post4782551

Note that I can't yet verify how well this works.


For anyone interested - works perfectly...

Tony, I just did a update on the MX850 and found a new entry in the IR db for DV-59AVI. Looks like they finally figured out that this machine wasnt' going away. I updated the 850 and it works great as well.

Tony, I just did a update on the MX850 and found a new entry in the IR db for DV-59AVI. Looks like they finally figured out that this machine wasnt' going away. I updated the 850 and it works great as well.

Thanks - I see it now too. Does everyone button map or just a few?

DSD is digital data, and is just as bufferable (is this a word?) as any digital data. iLink is a digital communication mechanism, just like Ethernet or USB, so of course the data can be buffered. My whole point was that the player and iLink connection just serve to fill a buffer inside the receiver, a la a computer ROM drive, and the D/A converters are driven from the buffer. Phase locked loops are necessary with a one-way connection, since the clock has to be derived from the signal coming off the laser assembly, which is really a horrible (albeit cheap) design if you think about it, subject to motor variances, disc wobble, etc. However, the real world impact of jitter is only a problem when the jitter is quite severe. Even moderate levels of jitter impact the signal very minutely, and in my opinion, far below anything a human ear could detect.

The Pioneer iLink connection is the first good design for a digital interconnect I've seen. I think some very high end stuff in the past has had effectively the same design, but with stratospheric price tags. Was it Audio Alchemy that was selling a jitter filter years ago? It was a box that you put between your player and your preamp or receiver. It would buffer up the data coming from the player, reclock it very precisely and send it out.

Dave


Dave,

I use a Chaintech AV-710 soundcard out of JRiver MC11 (w/ ASIO 2) hooked up to my high-end 2-channel setup via a digital optical out.

I just purchased some used audio equipment off ebay to replace my Sony a/v receiver going to a pair of Revel F30s. I got a bunch of Audio Alchemy equipment and a Carver amp.

Question: I have been using the AA DTI (jitterbox) into DDE v1.0 (DAC) to DLC (preamp) into the Carver. Do you have any recommendation or opinion on the need for a DTI (jitterbox) when using the computer setup with digital out, i.e. need for jitter filter or not? I also got an AA DAC-in-the-box which sounds good also, but I find that the DTI/DDE combo seems to reproduce truer ("more natural") sound for my taste.

Also, I am still researching the bit capability of this equipment. How does the affect what I have explained, i.e. if the AA equipment is 16-bit, 20-bit, or 24-bit. I am only concerned with playing 2-channel with this setup.

My next replacement idea was a hig-end soundcard to repalce the Chaintech, but in this setup does that buy me anything?

Thanks to everyone in advance for any feedback!

Regards,
Mark

Dave,

I use a Chaintech AV-710 soundcard out of JRiver MC11 (w/ ASIO 2) hooked up to my high-end 2-channel setup via a digital optical out.

I just purchased some used audio equipment off ebay to replace my Sony a/v receiver going to a pair of Revel F30s. I got a bunch of Audio Alchemy equipment and a Carver amp.

Question: I have been using the AA DTI (jitterbox) into DDE v1.0 (DAC) to DLC (preamp) into the Carver. Do you have any recommendation or opinion on the need for a DTI (jitterbox) when using the computer setup with digital out, i.e. need for jitter filter or not? I also got an AA DAC-in-the-box which sounds good also, but I find that the DTI/DDE combo seems to reproduce truer ("more natural") sound for my taste.

Also, I am still researching the bit capability of this equipment. How does the affect what I have explained, i.e. if the AA equipment is 16-bit, 20-bit, or 24-bit. I am only concerned with playing 2-channel with this setup.

My next replacement idea was a hig-end soundcard to repalce the Chaintech, but in this setup does that buy me anything?

Thanks to everyone in advance for any feedback!

Regards,
Mark

I've had my 59avi for a few months now. No problems until late last week. I popped in a movie to demo for a friend, and the DD 5.1 audio would drop-out randomly. Guesstimation is that it drops out every 30 seconds or so, semi randomly. I tried switching from coax to optical, but I'm having the same problem.

If I keep an eye on the front of the player I see the blue 5.1 indicator LED for 5.1 sound blinking when the sound drops off. I tried leaving the player unplugged for a number of hours, thinking that I just hit some SW bug. But that didn't help. Has anyone else seen (heard) anything like this before with their 59avi?

Any suggestions?

ETA: Just wanted to add that I've obviously tried more than one title. It does this on all of the half dozen titles I tried - that a) have worked before and b) work just fine in my other player.

Sounds like your player has a problem.

OK>>
Please help.
Pioneer stated today when I called that the DV-59AVi didn`t have a recent firmware up-date.
Can someone please let me know if this is correct , and if possible , what was the serial# of the last old one. In other words all units with serial # XXXXXX would be fine and have already had the latest firmware update.
Many thanks,
Gary

I apologize for such a trivial question, but I am a new Pio 59avi owner, but the set hasn't arrived yet. Will it play homemade cd movies (of our grand-daughter on the East Coast) that are burned onto a CD from a digital camera? I can play them in my Mac laptop that is connected to the dlp TV, but it would be much more convenient it I could play them in the dvd player. Thank much!

I apologize for such a trivial question, but I am a new Pio 59avi owner, but the set hasn't arrived yet. Will it play homemade cd movies (of our grand-daughter on the East Coast) that are burned onto a CD from a digital camera? I can play them in my Mac laptop that is connected to the dlp TV, but it would be much more convenient it I could play them in the dvd player. Thank much!

Not sure but there isn't anything I have thrown at it that it doesn't play
including foreign regional encoded DVDs :-)

OK>>
Please help.
Pioneer stated today when I called that the DV-59AVi didn`t have a recent firmware up-date.
Can someone please let me know if this is correct , and if possible , what was the serial# of the last old one. In other words all units with serial # XXXXXX would be fine and have already had the latest firmware update.
Many thanks,
Gary

Gary, a search of this thread finds a multitude of posts regarding firmware, but I believe the latest version is 1.506. I don't know about serial numbers, but there's also info in this thread about looking up the firmware on the bottom or back of your unit (can't remember which).

Doug

Will it play homemade cd movies As long as they are in std Video CD format, it will.

As long as they are in std Video CD format, it will.

Or should, anyway.

I say this not out of experience with video CD, but with my experience with DVD-R's.

Can someone comment on the 59avi based on the sound only compared to a s2500 Yamaha or 3910 Denon . I'm looking for thought on the Ilink feature as i have a Elite Pioneer 56 txi.

Can someone comment on the 59avi based on the sound only compared to a s2500 Yamaha or 3910 Denon . I'm looking for thought on the Ilink feature as i have a Elite Pioneer 56 txi.
I just came from a Denon 3910 to a Pioneer 59AVi and love it. Sound quality is clearer and picture quality is better and disc response time is much faster. I am very pleased.

Hmmm. Not sure if the new forum format is quoting the post to which I'm responding, so I'll make sure:

Can someone comment on the 59avi based on the sound only compared to a s2500 Yamaha or 3910 Denon . I'm looking for thought on the Ilink feature as i have a Elite Pioneer 56 txi.

If you use i-link, your receiver will process the sound, not the 59AVi. Sorry, but I can't compare the 3 units via regular analog outputs.

Doug

Hi, all. Being the proud owner of this player myself, I thought I share one of my findings. I'm running the latest revision of the software.

The player suffers from white crush over HDMI in the default setting. All white information over 235 gets discarded. I've been measuring the HDMI port data, and found one, and only one, setting where the player behaves like it should. That is, outputting reference HDMI-Video levels, no black crush, no white crush and no compression of the signal range.

In the Video Adjust menu:

White Level: All the way to the left (min setting)
Black Level: One notch down from center settings (towards min)
Black Setup: 7.5 IRE
HDMI Color Adjust: Enhanced

All other settings as default for the "HDMI Direct" preset.

This is valid for 480i over HDMI only, I haven't tried any other output modes, since I use an external scaler.

Carl,
Very interesting, can you elaborate some more? How did you measure? What were you using for test data, etc.? I'm mostly interest in the measurements at the extremes. You mentioned it clipped WTW. Sending 235, what happens when you vary the players "white ajdust"? Same for black. When sending 16, what do you measure when "black adjust" is neutral vs 1 tick down? Same for sending 15.

thanks,
larry

I've finally gotten my 59avi (replacing a Denon 2910) and am very pleased. One question: How does one do a 'slide show', i.e., a cd with digital photos on it? TX!

Carl,
Very interesting, can you elaborate some more? How did you measure? What were you using for test data, etc.? I'm mostly interest in the measurements at the extremes. You mentioned it clipped WTW. Sending 235, what happens when you vary the players "white ajdust"? Same for black. When sending 16, what do you measure when "black adjust" is neutral vs 1 tick down? Same for sending 15.

thanks,
larry
For test data I used the 2.5IRE interval patterns from the Avia Pro disc. I know they go from 2.5IRE to 108.5IRE, so the entire range from 1-254 (with 100IRE being nominal white, and 7.5IRE being black) is represented.

The scaler I have attached will show what IRE is being input on the HDMI port in the middle of the screen. It uses a 0 IRE readout for 16, a 100 IRE readout for 235, and a 108.5 readout for 254. Anything below 16 (BtB data) will show up a a negative IRE. Once I understood how the data is displayed, it was a simple task to display the patterns and see what the readout is. Is this case, sending a 7.5 IRE pattern should display 0 IRE in the scaler (digital 16). Sending a 100 IRE pattern should display 100 IRE. Sending a 108.5 IRE pattern should display 108.5, and sending a 2.5 IRE pattern should display a negative IRE.

That white crush was present initally was easily confirmed by looking at the deep ramp patterns. I think all data that was 235 or higher showed up as 108.5IRE, flattening the WtW content. When you lower the White Level to the minimum, sending a 100 IRE pattern made the readout be 100 IRE, and sending a 108.5 IRE pattern made the readout 108.5 IRE. If you look at a deep ramp pattern and lower the white level in the player, you will see all the missing gradations magically appear before your eyes.

Setting black level at the default made 7.5 IRE window read out 2.5IRE (digitial 22-23 or so). Dropping it down one notch made the readout 0 IRE (digital 16). I think this has something to do with the interaction between the 7.5IRE setup in the player and the HDMI "Enhanced mode". Running the player without the 7.5IRE setup clips all BtB content. Not running in "Enhanced" mode clips white (235-254) to 100 IRE, compressing the range.

When I was done, I verified the settings by sending reference signals from my Accupel HD signal generator. It was spot on. The readouts where the same as from the DVD player.

Folks, I am enjoying my recently acquired (finally got it yesterday!) 59avi more and more! And I can't express my thanks too much to Bob Pariseau for his many earlier posts in this thread for leading one by the hand in getting it set up. For definiteness, I have my HDMI sending out 1080i to my dlp, and audio is by Toslink to my AVR. I have followed Bob's guide about loading the 'Direct' settings into MEMORY 1, and changed AUTO1 to AUTO2, and also changed the IRE to 7.5.

Now my question: I read various comments about whether to set the 'HDMI Color Adjust' [in the 'Video Adjust' area] to 'Standard' or 'Enhanced'. I tried both, and with 'Enhanced' I cannot see the last 'white bar' in the DVE 'Reverse Gray Ramps' [DVE Title 12, Chapter 14]. With it set to 'Standard' I can see all the white bars, even with 'Contrast' on my dlp set up to its max (and with no dis-coloration, etc.--looks perfect). So my conclusion is that 'Standard' is the correct setting for 'HDMI Color Adjust', at least for my set-up. Is this what other persons have found (that have a similar display, etc.)? I would appreciate any confirmation (or not!) of this conclusion. Tx much!

So my conclusion is that 'Standard' is the correct setting for 'HDMI Color Adjust', at least for my set-up. Is this what other persons have found (that have a similar display, etc.)? I would appreciate any confirmation (or not!) of this conclusion. Tx much!

In my setup, that will compress the dynamic range, and put all WtW data in the < 235 range (nominal white). Try to set it to Enhanced and lower the "white level" setting all the way down. No guarantees, but it works for me running 480i.

In my setup, that will compress the dynamic range, and put all WtW data in the < 235 range (nominal white). Try to set it to Enhanced and lower the "white level" setting all the way down. No guarantees, but it works for me running 480i.

I have left all the white/black level settings in he 59avi at default, and am only making adjustments on the display. Are you saying that I should adjust these settings on the 59 itself? Also, with you outputting 480i, and me 1080i, are we able to compare our settings in a meaningful way?

re: calibration explanation:
Great! Thanks, Carl. In 480i via HDMI is RGB or YCbCr being sent with your config settings? I'd love to have a "little black box" with DVI and HDMI inputs that would just display the "IRE" info your scaler does. Now I guess we can see why Pio is touting their "direct video" feature or whatever it is called on the 79avi. Hopefully 79avi owners will be able to click on a setup feature and "pristine" YCbCr from the MPEG decoder will be sent.

larry

re: calibration explanation:
Great! Thanks, Carl. In 480i via HDMI is RGB or YCbCr being sent with your config settings?

RGB. Thanks.

Also, with you outputting 480i, and me 1080i, are we able to compare our settings in a meaningful way?

Not sure, but the player is not outputting the correct data over HDMI running 480i with default settings. Keep in mind that I'm very anal about things like this, and you could have a perfectly good picture without getting all the bits 100% correct. I can do some 1080i testing, and see what it sends with player defaults if you want.

I can do some 1080i testing, and see what it sends with player defaults if you want.

That would be very nice, for I don't have the ability to do this. Tx much.