Not sure, but the player is not outputting the correct data over HDMI running 480i with default settings. Keep in mind that I'm very anal about things like this, and you could have a perfectly good picture without getting all the bits 100% correct. I can do some 1080i testing, and see what it sends with player defaults if you want.
Well, if you get the chance....I would be interested in you checking out component 480i as *Secrets* apparently claims this is Not recommended because of Y/C delay; however, if I recall correctly, several other 59AVi owners have looked at the Y/C delay test pattern on Avia and identified no delay through component. :confused:

Hi, all. Being the proud owner of this player myself, I thought I share one of my findings. I'm running the latest revision of the software.

The player suffers from white crush over HDMI in the default setting. All white information over 235 gets discarded. I've been measuring the HDMI port data, and found one, and only one, setting where the player behaves like it should. That is, outputting reference HDMI-Video levels, no black crush, no white crush and no compression of the signal range.

In the Video Adjust menu:

White Level: All the way to the left (min setting)
Black Level: One notch down from center settings (towards min)
Black Setup: 7.5 IRE
HDMI Color Adjust: Enhanced

All other settings as default for the "HDMI Direct" preset.

This is valid for 480i over HDMI only, I haven't tried any other output modes, since I use an external scaler.

Carl, I have just tried the settings you recommend above, while outputting 1080i to my dlp. In then adjusting the display with DVE, I had to raise Black Level to 44, from 41 before, [on my Sammy 6163--my Mits hasn't arrived yet--which has a 0 to 100 scale]; the White Level stayed at 100 as before. And I pass BTB and WTW with your settings. I also had to lower the Color from about 43 to 33 or so.

On testing this out on my benchmark ('Master & Commander'), it looks excellent. With my (relatively uneducated eyes) I am hard-pressed to say which settings look better. But it certainly is true, that when setting 'HDMI Color Adjust' to 'Enhanced', your settings DO bass WTW, whereas the default settings do not.

So I think it will be necessary to rely on your measurements, and I look forward to see what you come up with for 1080i output.

Well, if you get the chance....I would be interested in you checking out component 480i as *Secrets* apparently claims this is Not recommended because of Y/C delay; however, if I recall correctly, several other 59AVi owners have looked at the Y/C delay test pattern on Avia and identified no delay through component. :confused: I thought the newer firmware fixed this?

larry

That would be very nice, for I don't have the ability to do this. Tx much.
Tested with HDMI 1080i, and it behaves exactly the same as 480i. You should be ok with the settings.

I thought the newer firmware fixed this?

larry
I'm running firmware 1.526, which I assume is the latest. I haven't tried any component connection, but there are definitely a small Y/C delay over HDMI.

480i: Red is off, Blue ok.
480p/720p: Red is off a tiny bit, Blue ok.
1080i: Red is off, Blue is off a tiny bit.

I compensate in my scaler, so I have no issues with this. If you set has a Y/C delay control, use the Avia test patterns to compensate. Please note that this is a small delay only, and I doubt that you can tell watching regular content.

I thought the newer firmware fixed this?

larry
I don’t know,……. that’s why I’m asking. It seems that this is an elusive issue with opinions on both sides of the fence.

If I recall correctly, Robert Whitehead was the last to comment on Y/C delay over component 480i and I believe he read Kris’s latest review on Secrets to imply that the newer firmware did not correct this problem over component. :confused:

Hi, all. Being the proud owner of this player myself, I thought I share one of my findings. I'm running the latest revision of the software.

The player suffers from white crush over HDMI in the default setting. All white information over 235 gets discarded. I've been measuring the HDMI port data, and found one, and only one, setting where the player behaves like it should. That is, outputting reference HDMI-Video levels, no black crush, no white crush and no compression of the signal range.

In the Video Adjust menu:

White Level: All the way to the left (min setting)
Black Level: One notch down from center settings (towards min)
Black Setup: 7.5 IRE
HDMI Color Adjust: Enhanced

All other settings as default for the "HDMI Direct" preset.

This is valid for 480i over HDMI only, I haven't tried any other output modes, since I use an external scaler.

csundboom has now verfied his settings above also for 1080i output. Have other people tried them? What do you think, compared to the default settings (except for IRE = 7.5)?

any chance on doing the same measurements for 720p? Please, Please... :)

any chance on doing the same measurements for 720p? Please, Please... :)
Sure, just did. Same results as for 480i/1080i. You're welcome!

Sure, just did. Same results as for 480i/1080i. You're welcome!


thanks very much! I will try these out and compare to my current settings. I have mine calibrated using DVE. I use a Mits. 720p DLP connected via HDMI...

any chance on doing the same measurements for 720p? Please, Please... :)

I was going to ask the same thing, but didn't want to be a pita, so I refrained. However, since you have taken the lead, and are therefore the lead pita, I will go ahead and second your request (thereby making me the secondary pita).

The latest firmware does not fix the Y/C delay problem over component. But Kris says that HDMI does not have the problem in his review. fwiw.

The latest firmware does not fix the Y/C delay problem over component. But Kris says that HDMI does not have the problem in his review. fwiw.
….and this is where I’m confused because didn’t you respond to Robert awhile back on something like a post in the early 800’s that ……

“If you go back through the thread, some 59AVi owners have looked at the Y/C delay test pattern on Avia and identified no delay even through component. So I'm not sure what Kris is seeing unless there's variation among units.” Kevin, I hope I didn’t misquote you as this is really pushing my memory and I think that was the last time this subject ever came up…until now.

The reason why this is important to me is that a rather well known and respected calibrator has determined that with my display, 480i over component is much better handled than 480i over HDMI…..(go figure when the build date is Dec. 2004 and it has two HDMI inputs)

So for me, this would be the logical choice and I believe that steviec (?sp.) and AVfile also found that combo (480i over component) to be superior with their displays compared to using the HDMI.

Keep in mind that Y/C delay shown in the Avia test patterns is a combination of delays in player, scaler (if applicable) and display. Once the signal gets into the digitial RGB domain (can happen in player using HDMI RGB out or in display converting Component to RGB for display), Y/C delay should no longer change. Since I'm seeing minor Y/C problems over HDMI RGB, it *must* be the fault of the player, since the digital RGB conversion happens upstream.

Individual combinations of player and display will have different results, as long as the signal stays in the Component domain between player and display. I'm not sure what other people are seeing, but it's certainly possible to get different results with the same player and different displays hooked up.

I will do some testing with 480i over component tomorrow and report what I see with my combination.

I will do some testing with 480i over component tomorrow and report what I see with my combination.
Thank you! :)

Penton- I can only tell you what I know. :) Now, I have tested mine, but what I find and I don't know why this is, *sometimes* I can't see a Y/C delay and sometimes I do. So the one time I did post that it wasn't there, it actually wasn't. But later on when I tested again, I did see it. It's not that hard to differentiate the test patterns on Avia for this, but I don't know why it would seem to change. And no, I didn't really change anything in the player or the display in between those tests. Obviously, the hope is that the 79AVi finally eliminates this altogether for component.

480i/480p over Component looks cleaner in the Y/C delay department. It's comparable to how 480p/720p measures over HDMI. No delay on the blue channel, and a tiny bit of delay on the red channel. I have to agree with the "reputable calibrator" mentioned earlier. If you care about Y/C delay, and you have no controls to compensate in the display (or scaler) Component is better at 480i than HDMI. 480p should look the same. This is with the 1.526 firmware, ymmw. Looks like the player's internal conversion process from Component to HDMI is not perfect.

The white level/black level/IRE setup etc settings will differ if you use Component from what I posted for HDMI. Not sure what's needed to get the entire dynamic range passed OK, since I haven't spent anytime looking at it. Also, this is display dependant to some degree, since we are dealing with analog signals here.

On another note, I just watched my first entire movie since I calibrated the setup (DV-59Avi running 480i over HDMI -> Lumagen scaler DVI out -> Panasonic TH-50PHD6UY in native pixel perfect mode). In one word, stunning! Amazing 3D feel, very clean edges, colors perfect. I haven't looked at any SDI player in this combination, but if find it hard to believe it could be much better. The movie was "White Noise" btw, not a great flick, but it's Halloween after all...

OK, I did try a quick search on firmware, but here's my specific question -

I have an early firmware installed on my 59AVi. Where do I find and how to upgrade the firmware? I want to have all the bug fixes, do use the HDMI output and would like to play DVD-R+ DL media.

I've updated motherboard BIOS many times and assume on a stand-alone DVD player, the f/w is on a CD. Is this correct?

I couldn't find firmware for A/V players on Pioneer's web site. What's the secret password, guys? Or do I have to send the player somewhere?

ss9001

I have an early firmware installed on my 59AVi. Where do I find and how to upgrade the firmware?
ss9001
I have the 59avi and there is no user installable firmware for it. You may be able to send the unit to pioneer to have the latest firmware installed.

Mike

There has been quite a discussion going on in the 'Samsung Owners' thread about whether to set IRE to 0 or 7.5 for a digital conection (HDMI, DVI) to a dlp. I have been playing with this, and seem to observe the following (with HDMI out of the 59avi, 1080i, and all 'HDMI Direct' settings except 'Pure Cinema' set to AUTO2):

1) With IRE = 7.5 I easily pass BTB and WTW as seen on DVE; when calibrating via DVE, the Brightness setting comes out to be 42.

2) With IRE = 0 I pass BTB and just barely WTW on DVE; when calibrating via DVE, the Brightness comes out to be 59.

When looking at various dvd's, I think I like the PQ in dark scenes with case (2) [i.e., IRE = 0] better, even though case (1) seems to calibrate better via DVE. ???

Have any of you tried IRE = 0 on dlp rptv's? Very curious what conclusions others have come to.

There has been quite a discussion going on in the 'Samsung Owners' thread about whether to set IRE to 0 or 7.5 for a digital conection (HDMI, DVI) to a dlp. I have been playing with this, and seem to observe the following (with HDMI out of the 59avi, 1080i, and all 'HDMI Direct' settings except 'Pure Cinema' set to AUTO2):

1) With IRE = 7.5 I easily pass BTB and WTW as seen on DVE; when calibrating via DVE, the Brightness setting comes out to be 42.

2) With IRE = 0 I pass BTB and just barely WTW on DVE; when calibrating via DVE, the Brightness comes out to be 59.

When looking at various dvd's, I think I like the PQ in dark scenes with case (2) [i.e., IRE = 0] better, even though case (1) seems to calibrate better via DVE. ???

Have any of you tried IRE = 0 on dlp rptv's? Very curious what conclusions others have come to.

I've tried both 7.5 IRE and 0 IRE on my Mitsubishi DLP, and the only difference I have found is that with 0IRE, I need to up the brightness on the set 10 ticks to correctly set the BTB level. With 7.5IRE, I can leave the brightness right at dead center and the BTB bar is just right. I don't think I ever had a problem with WTW, but never really looked at it very carefully. Either setting gives me a good picture and I doubt there is any difference between the two settings once everything is adjusted properly.

If it makes a difference, then one of the settings is changing the data as it comes off the DVD. Just because you see the BTB bar doesn't mean it's actually BTB data coming from the player. IRE settings for a digital connection are ridiculous - they have no meaning. A device, like the Lumagen scaler Carl uses, is needed to show what video data is actually being sent. You wouldn't think it would be this hard to get digital video sent correctly between two devices, would you? :)

larry

Carl, all,

In your settings:
The player suffers from white crush over HDMI in the default setting. All white information over 235 gets discarded. I've been measuring the HDMI port data, and found one, and only one, setting where the player behaves like it should. That is, outputting reference HDMI-Video levels, no black crush, no white crush and no compression of the signal range.

In the Video Adjust menu:

White Level: All the way to the left (min setting)
Black Level: One notch down from center settings (towards min)
Black Setup: 7.5 IRE
HDMI Color Adjust: Enhanced

All other settings as default for the "HDMI Direct" preset.

You use the Enhanced mode. I thought Enhanced caused problems (color space mapping?) with a DVI TV, and Direct was the way to avoid these problems? I have an HLN-617W and my only digital connection is DVI, so I use an HDMI -- > DVI cable with my DV-59Avi.

Thanks
Bruce

You use the Enhanced mode. I thought Enhanced caused problems (color space mapping?) with a DVI TV, and Direct was the way to avoid these problems?
No, I use the "HDMI Direct" mode, not the Enhanced one. I only change the "HDMI Color Adjust" to Enhanced.

No, I use the "HDMI Direct" mode, not the Enhanced one. I only change the "HDMI Color Adjust" to Enhanced.

Carl, Where do you stand on the IRE question? If one adjusts Brightness properly [on my Sammy hlp I come up with Brightness = 41(on a 0 to 100 scale) with IRE = 7.5, and with it = 59 with IRE = 0], does it really matter with your recommended settings?

Carl, Where do you stand on the IRE question? If one adjusts Brightness properly [on my Sammy hlp I come up with Brightness = 41(on a 0 to 100 scale) with IRE = 7.5, and with it = 59 with IRE = 0], does it really matter with your recommended settings?
Passing BtB is relevant if scaling is done by the display. If you are sending native resolution, passing BtB is less important. Setting IRE set up to 0 should discard all BtB data, but I'm not sure that's the case with the 59Avi. I think it outputs a little bit of the BtB data in "HDMI Direct" mode default settings. I will spend some time later this week documenting what each setting does in "HDMI Direct" mode, so we can settle these questions. Right now, 7.5 IRE set up is my recommendation if your display is not begin fed native res, but I will verify this with some experiments. The goal is to output each luma value present on the DVD (1-254) to the same value (or as close as possible) on HDMI.

Passing BtB is relevant if scaling is done by the display. If you are sending native resolution, passing BtB is less important. Setting IRE set up to 0 should discard all BtB data, but I'm not sure that's the case with the 59Avi. I think it outputs a little bit of the BtB data in "HDMI Direct" mode default settings. I will spend some time later this week documenting what each setting does in "HDMI Direct" mode, so we can settle these questions. Right now, 7.5 IRE set up is my recommendation if your display is not begin fed native res, but I will verify this with some experiments. The goal is to output each luma value present on the DVD (1-254) to the same value (or as close as possible) on HDMI.

Thanks VERY much for your efforts in all this. I will be outputting 1080i to my Mits dlp (when I finally get it!), which it displays as 1080p, so I'm not sure if this really is its 'native resolution' in this case. Will look forward to hearing your results.

I did some work tonight, and these are my findings.

Tools:
Firmware revision of DVD Player: 1.526
Test patterns: Avia Pro IRE window patterns (from 2.5 IRE to 108.5 IRE)
Video black defined as 7.5 IRE, nominal white as 100 IRE, peak white 108.5 IRE.
Represents DVD content luma values from 6 to 254.
Data analyzer: Lumagen VisionHDP scaler IRE readout feature

Standard vs. Enhanced "HDMI Color Adjust": The "Standard" mode prevents output of any values lower than 16 or higher than 235 over the HDMI port. Assuming we are trying to output what's on the DVD, the only way to make this happen in "Standard" mode is to compress the dynamic range from 1-254 to 16-235 by using the black/white level controls to cram the BtB and WtW content into the 16-235 range. Not recommended, since we will lose fidelity. You will be able to see BtB and WtW if you do this, but you will lose grayscale steps in the middle.

"Enhanced" mode will allow us to output any value from 1-254. Now we just need to map the video black to 16 and nominal white to 235 (still preserving the WtW content up to 254). Since my testing concluded that we need "Enhanced" HDMI Color Adjust to get us in the ballpark, let's look at the other settings.

There is an interaction between the "Black Level" control and the "IRE Set up" control. You can achieve almost the same results by leaving "IRE Set up" at 0, and compensate by raising the "Black Level" control as you can be setting "IRE Set up" to 7.5. However, it's not perfect, and black will end up being a little off from its standard value (a little higher or lower than 16, depending on "Black Level" setting). Setting "IRE Set up" to 7.5 and lowering the black level one notch gets us to perfect video black (luma 16 over HDMI). This will also preserve most of the BtB content (80-90% in my estimation).

The "White Level" control in its default setting will re-sample all content over 235 to whatever the maximum value is. For "Standard", this will be 235, so everything over 235 will be output as 235. For "Enhanced" this will be 254, so everything over 235 will be output as 254. This will also "stretch" the rest of the grayscale, so all values will be too high. Lowering the "White Level" to it's leftmost position will preserve all the steps between 235 and 254. The "stretching" of the grayscale is also avoided to a large degree.

The settings I ended up with are the same as the ones I listed earlier. They are as close as I could get, but they're not perfect. There is still a slight "stretch". A value of 6 on the DVD would be output as 5 or 4, and a value of 251 on the DVD would be output as 254. There is clearly some re-sampling going on, no matter what settings are used. I doubt this will have any real effects watching a movie. An SDI mod may be the only way to get the 59-Avi to output a pristine "DVD perfect" signal, but from what I've seen so far, this is one heck of a player.

Hi Carl:

Thank you. You just made my day. It is unselfish people like you that makes life a little easier. I have had the 59AVi for a little over a year. Not being a techie I just kept watching my DVDs in the original factory default settings. The only thing I had changed was that I had set the Video setting to "Natural" as opposed to Enhanced or Direct as suggested by the manual.

I have now implemented your suggestions and the PQ has vastly improved. Thank you again. I also have the Lumagen Pro HDP. My Pioneer is fed into that- HDMI to DVI. Should I also be changing the Black, Contrast, Color settings on the Lumagen to get an even better picture? Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Should I also be changing the Black, Contrast, Color settings on the Lumagen to get an even better picture? Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
I would try to keep BLCK and CONT at the default setting. Your player should now be sending reference signals, so no adjustments should be needed in the Lumagen. Use the controls on your display to set black level (brightness) correctly if you have a calibration DVD of some kind.

The color settings can make a big improvement in the Lumagen, especially if your set has red/green push. If you enable the service menu "menu 0 9 1 0", you can also do color temperature calibration and gamma adjustments. It's a very powerful scaler. But I'm afraid I'm getting off-topic here...

A couple of more points of clarification.

1. The 'HDMI Color Adjust' defines the output range. Standard is 16-235 and Enhanced is 1-254. I think this control is a misguided attempt at implementing Video vs PC levels. "Standard" set video black at 16, and nominal white at 235, alright, but it compresses all BtB data into 16 and all WtW data into 235. Since the whole point of running Video instead of PC levels is to pass BtB and WtW, this is clearly a design flaw.

2. The black level control defines the value of black. This should be 16 over HDMI. It doesn't operate like a normal brightness control, which would move the entire video range up and down. Moving it up only compresses values in the midrange. Nominal white doesn't move when you increase black level.

3. The white level control should be renamed to "white crush control". All it does is define what values should be output with the maximum luma value. By default, it defines everything from 235 to 254 to be 254 (in Enhanced mode). Rasing the white level control pulls even more values in to be 254. It also "pulls" the rest of the range with it, increasing the difference between between the mid grays. So how much white crush do you want? Now you have a choice!

Carl, Thanks from all of us for your very thorough investigation of these issues, and your very clear explanation. It is a great help to those of us that don't have this more sophisticated equipment. When I finally get my new set and give it settled in, I think I will probably have an ISF job (tv and dvd player) but I think it's important to get as familiar as possible with all the elements of one's system before going this route.

Great stuff indeed! Thanks for sharing.

Carl, Doesn't alot of this depend on what type of display you are using?
I have a hitachi CRT RPTV and I tried your settings and checked ramps and everything using DVE.
I find that I still prefer the "DIRECT" settings with "0" IRE loaded into memory 1.
NO white or black crush and the BTB bar is still slightly visible. I seem to get a grainier appearence with your settings. To each his own I guess.

I've followed Carl's settings on my Samsung hlp6163 dlp (waiting for my Mits 73" 1080p dlp to arrive!), and have the resolution set to 720p, the native resolution of the Sammy--and it is ANYTHING but grainy. It is sharp as a tick--really makes me wonder how much better things can be with a 1080p set. And the colors are exceptionally bright and crisp, yet still totally natural looking. Thanks again, Carl, for doing the necessary careful and systematic study.

Carl, Doesn't alot of this depend on what type of display you are using?
I have a hitachi CRT RPTV and I tried your settings and checked ramps and everything using DVE.
I find that I still prefer the "DIRECT" settings with "0" IRE loaded into memory 1.
NO white or black crush and the BTB bar is still slightly visible. I seem to get a grainier appearence with your settings. To each his own I guess.
There are always a lot of factors, display being one of them. The point of my excersise was to get the player to behave as close to reference as possible. YMMV of course, depending of firmware etc.

To check for white crush, make sure you are looking at "deep" ramps, and not the standard ones. They only go up to 235. For black level, I checked default "HDMI Direct" mode and IRE 2.5, 5.0 and 7.5 all showed up as digital RGB 16. The player doesn't pass BtB with the firmware I'm using (1.526) in "HDMI Direct" default mode.

If you like your picture with standard Direct settings, who am I to disagree. It's your gear, and you should run it it whatever fashion makes your eyes happy.

RGB. Thanks.

Is it because the Lumagen can only take 480i RGB or the pio just cannot do YCbCr over HDMI 480i ?

btw thanks a lot for your detailed investigation !

Is it because the Lumagen can only take 480i RGB or the pio just cannot do YCbCr over HDMI 480i ?
That's the only combo I could get to work. I think the Pio detects that there is an DVI port on the other end, and always outputs RGB. You can change settings in the Lumagen to do YCbCr over the DVI port, but I couldn't get the Pio to see the connection as HDMI->HDMI.

The 59avi was not totally "pure", there was still some filtering and different things done on the HDMI output at 480i. Probably only some "minor" things, but still some processing.

The Pioneer representative that gave me this picture also told me about the "Direct Stream" video personnally, and told me the signal will come directly from the MPEG decoder (like an SDI-mod) w/o any processing or filtering at all. It's not on the list, but it was confirmed to me.

I spoke with the Pioneer tech folks today and they said that there is no difference in the outputs of 480i over HDMI from the 59AVI to the 79AVI-- other than they are now marketing hype the native data stream for the folks that want to use an external video processor.

I spoke with the Pioneer tech folks today and they said that there is no difference in the outputs of 480i over HDMI from the 59AVI to the 79AVI-- other than they are now marketing hype the native data stream for the folks that want to use an external video processor.

Hmm. That contradicts what Levesque heard. Even if true the 79avi does sound like an ugrade from gaining 8 lbs which one would hope would be power supply related instead of lead sinks.

Hopefully, someone with measuring devises can get one of these next to the 59avi and let us know for sure.

Edit: I remember Lev saying there is less ringing with the 79avi so one would assume some changes from his observations.

Edit Edit: Are you sure they weren't Denon techs? ;)

If you go back to the PDF on the 79avi in the 79avi thread, strictly speaking the data won't be coming from the MPEG decoder for 480i. It (hopefully) will come from a "filter" right after it that masks/corrects the CUE bug. I don't recall them using a new MPEG coder and I didn't go back and try to find and reread the info. Also, the 79avi will be capable of 10bit YCbCr, IIRC. I don't believe the 59avi can do 10bit YCbCr. But, until somebody gets a 79avi and verifies all this, we won't know for sure.

Also, somebody, somewhere here claimed they can get YCbCr from the 59avi (actually a 868 Euro model). However, it wouldn't surprise me if the 59avi only did output RGB. Remember that the 59avi was one of the first HDMI output DVD players and it did NOT have the HDMI->DVI BTB/WTW clipping bug. This is a good indication that the YCbCr was converted to RGB _before_ going into the HDMI output chip. The HDMI didn't have a chance to exhibit the bug. Again, this is speculation based on certain facts.

larry

I just picked up a brand new 59avi. I haven't connected to my tv yet cuz I still need to get a hdmi cable. So, I tried to press open to bring out the dvd tray, but it wouldn't come out. Is this because I don't have it configured yet since I haven't got a hdmi cable yet to see the on screen display...HELP!!!

You don't *have* to use the HDMI cable if you want to get the on screen display. Plain ol' component will work just fine.

I don't know why, however, the tray won't open... do you see *any* messages on the yellow-on-black display on the front of the unit?

when I pressed open, the screen says "open". However, the tray doesn't open at all. I can't even hear any motor running inside to at least try to open the tray. After a few seconds, "open" disappears from the front panel and "loading" comes up. And a few seconds after that, the timer comes up (for playing DVD) and a GUI logo comes up also. I think I'm gonna return it...

when I pressed open, the screen says "open". However, the tray doesn't open at all. I can't even hear any motor running inside to at least try to open the tray. After a few seconds, "open" disappears from the front panel and "loading" comes up. And a few seconds after that, the timer comes up (for playing DVD) and a GUI logo comes up also. I think I'm gonna return it...

Sounds like something is wrong with the player; take it back to where you got it and get a replacement. Or contact Pioneer service.

Hey all,

Just blew off half a day's work catching up on various threads, as it's been forever since I posted. Some *fantastic* info being shared here; kudos and thanks to the "regulars." Thought I'd chime in quick & say howdy since I'm a new 59AVi owner as of last Friday. Have it connected through a VSX-72TXV (also new as of last Friday) to my PRO-1000HDi, using the HDMI-HDMI connections the whole way through. Haven't had much time to fiddle & make adjustments yet, but am looking forward to spending several hours on the couch this weekend w/ Avia to see what I can accomplish.
I replaced older Pioneer components that I was still happy with (even with the lack of a progressive scan DVD player), and on first look, admittedly with out of the box settings, I haven't noticed huge improvements in PQ. Don't misinterpret; it's absolutely beautiful. I'm just excited about applying a lot of info I've read on this thread to see how far I can push it. Will hopefully keep you posted and actually contribute something once in a while rather than lurking about....

Cheers,
Phil

Very nice. The HDMI video switching in the 72 receiver is the major missing part of my 59Avi / 55Txi / 1110HD set-up. If you're looking for some DVDs that can really show off what your Pio player & plasma can do, I recommend 5th Element Superbit and the recently released Revenge of the Sith widescreen. I'm not sure what Lucas did with that latter disk, but it's the closest I've ever seen to HD on a 480i DVD (it was source-recorded in HD). Of course, true HD is still much better, but the Sith DVD is the closest I've seen...

Ross

Episode 2 was pretty damn good too!

Yes it was pretty damn good...if you ignore the plot, dialogue, acting...okay so it was visually stunning :D

I just wanted to chime in and say that I demo'd a 59avi in my HT recently. I liked it so much more than my Denon 1920 that I preordered a 79avi. I had to bring back the 59, and watched Signs last night on the 1920. Let's just say I was already missing the 59 ;) It was well worth the money to get rid of MBE.

On the 59avi - has anyone here ever noticed scaling artifacts? I'm not sure if that's what I saw during my demo, but it looks like minor ringing or edge enhancement (that I couldn't adjust out). I was noticing it during my demo running 720p to my Toshiba MT700 pj. I saw it on the Avia sharpness chart and it was actually oddly noticeable on the Y/C delay chart as a colored halo a few pixels to the left of the Y/C color bars. Odd. Any thoughts?

Edit - I also wanted to thank Carl for the excellent levels tweak guide. Very much appreciated! I hope you will be able to check the same on the new 79.

Yes it was pretty damn good...if you ignore the plot, dialogue, acting...okay so it was visually stunning :D

I just wanted to chime in and say that I demo'd a 59avi in my HT recently. I liked it so much more than my Denon 1920 that I preordered a 79avi. I had to bring back the 59, and watched Signs last night on the 1920. Let's just say I was already missing the 59 ;) It was well worth the money to get rid of MBE.

On the 59avi - has anyone here ever noticed scaling artifacts? I'm not sure if that's what I saw during my demo, but it looks like minor ringing or edge enhancement (that I couldn't adjust out). I was noticing it during my demo running 720p to my Toshiba MT700 pj. I saw it on the Avia sharpness chart and it was actually oddly noticeable on the Y/C delay chart as a colored halo a few pixels to the left of the Y/C color bars. Odd. Any thoughts?

Edit - I also wanted to thank Carl for the excellent levels tweak guide. Very much appreciated! I hope you will be able to check the same on the new 79.

I also had the Denon 1920 and was less then impressed with it. I traded it out for a 59AVi and I can't believe the PQ! Thanks to everyone in this thread for your input. It made setting up my 59 take minutes instead of days! :D

I just picked up a new 59avi and was wondering if anyone has their 59avi connected via component to a plasma. I would like to make sure I have everything setup properly before I calibrate with DVE. I have skimmed through this thread and find most setting talk is in regard to HDMI output. Thanks in advance for any help.

Had a chance to connect the 59avi to my Panasonic 42WD6UY (via component) and 3806. Without any calibration (DVE disc on the way) I find the PQ is improved over the 2910. I also find the menu system and the operation of the 59avi more to my liking than the 2910

Bill

I haven't found any answer while searching the threads for the last hour, so I'll shoot my question here (Sorry if it has already been answered).

While calibrating the HDMI output I noticed that the Pio shows the 6.75 Mhz b/w burst on Avia or DVE only when its output is set to 480i. As soon as the resolution is set to 480p, 720p or 1080i, there is a significant loss in resolution, the 6.75 Mhz burst not being at all, or at a very dimmed level.

The same happens with THX Optimode patterns.

On the other hand, setting the resolution to 720p increases detail in actual movies compared to 480i. (I'm watching through a Sanyo Z3)

Does anyone know what happens, or if this only happens on test patterns?

Sounds like you either have a bad player( which is very rare with the 59) or you have something like exterme noise reduction on or some other setting on in the menus.
My 59 is extremely sharp on the 6.75 burst .
Alot depends on your tv or display also.
If your trying to put out a 720p or 1080i signal into a set that that only accepts 480i or 480p there's your answer.

As soon as the resolution is set to 480p, 720p or 1080i, there is a significant loss in resolution, the 6.75 Mhz burst not being at all, or at a very dimmed level.

I solved the problem. What is happening is that the Pio cuts resolution quite significantly through HDMI when the monitor is set to 16/9 compressed, in the "Options" menu for HDMI.

This means that the only way to watch a movie with 1.33 aspect ratio, without any loss of resolution, is to set the display ratio on the display and to not let the pio handle it.

There is no loss of resolution when the Pio is set to "16/9 wide" mode.

With the Sanyo Z3, this sadly means no upscaling, as the Z3 can only handle 1.33 ratio in native NTSC or PAL resolution.

At least, all the information does get passed on now.

I solved the problem. What is happening is that the Pio cuts resolution quite significantly through HDMI when the monitor is set to 16/9 compressed, in the "Options" menu for HDMI.

This means that the only way to watch a movie with 1.33 aspect ratio, without any loss of resolution, is to set the display ratio on the display and to not let the pio handle it.

There is no loss of resolution when the Pio is set to "16/9 wide" mode.

With the Sanyo Z3, this sadly means no upscaling, as the Z3 can only handle 1.33 ratio in native NTSC or PAL resolution.

At least, all the information does get passed on now.

I would like to hear some follow-up/confirmation (or not) about the preference of using "16:9 Wide" in the HDMI menu. All earlier posts above in this thread have recommended using "16:9 Compressed" for this setting--primarily for convenience of 3x4 dvd's being automatically shown undistorted (i.e., with black side bars); it's been stated that both settings treat wide screen dvd's equally (well). Are you saying this this is not the case? (I've tried switching between "Wide" and "Compressed" on some wide screen dvd's and can't see any difference.)

I re-checked the "16:9 Wide" v "16:9 Compressed" issue.

I do not see a loss of resolution in anamorphically enhanced dvd's.

This happens only with 4:3 encoded dvd's, be the content letterboxed or 1.33. It seems that the compression applied in "16:9 compressed" mode comes at a price.

The easiest way to verify this is to check the sharpness pattern in THX Optimode. None of the patterns I tried is anamorphically enhanced.

In "16:9 compressed", the pattern is shown with sidebars in 1.33 aspect ratio and the resolution clearly drops to probably under 6MHZ (The THX pattern doesn't indicate frequencies, so this is a guess)

In "16:9 wide" mode the resolution goes right up to 6.75 MHZ, even though the image is 'stretched' to a 16:9 ratio. The resolution stays clear though in any upscaled mode.

It then depends on your monitors capabilities to handle aspect ratio or zoom in any of the Pioneers upscaling resolutions.

I have verified the same thing on DVE, wich as two patterns measuring resolution up to 6.75 MHZ, one anamorphically enhanced, and one in 1.33 ratio.

Same conclusions apply:
Widescreen movies are passed fine in any mode.
Letterboxed and 1.33 movies are only passed in full resolution in "16:9wide mode"

ourdall: Thanks for the info!

After reading most of this thread I'm going to list my settings below. Could some of the more knowledgeable memebers take a look and see if I over looked anything? Thanks! I do have my 59AVi connected via HDMI cable to my Mitsu 62628.

Memory1
Recall Settings - direct
Prog. Motion - half way between fast and slow
PureCinema - Auto2
YNR - off
CNR - off
Sharpness High - half way between soft and fine
Sharpness Mid - half way between soft and fine
Detail - off
White Level - all the way to the left (no bar showing)
Black Level - one click to the left from middle
Black Setup - 7.5 IRE
Gamma - middle
Hue - middle
Chroma Level - middle
Chroma Delay - middle
HDMI Color Adjust - Enhanced
HDMI Detail - middle

The level related stuff looks correct to me. What scanrate are you using over HDMI?

After reading most of this thread I'm going to list my settings below. Could some of the more knowledgeable memebers take a look and see if I over looked anything? Thanks! I do have my 59AVi connected via HDMI cable to my Mitsu 62628.

Memory1
Recall Settings - direct
Prog. Motion - half way between fast and slow
PureCinema - Auto2
YNR - off
CNR - off
Sharpness High - half way between soft and fine
Sharpness Mid - half way between soft and fine
Detail - off
White Level - all the way to the left (no bar showing)
Black Level - one click to the left from middle
Black Setup - 7.5 IRE
Gamma - middle
Hue - middle
Chroma Level - middle
Chroma Delay - middle
HDMI Color Adjust - Enhanced
HDMI Detail - middle

I don't claim to be an expert--just what I've gleeened from this thread. Anyway, I differ from your settings in the following:

Prog. Motion: it is grayed out for me
White Level: midway
Black Level: midway
HDMI Color Adjust: Standard

Anyone with settings with component outputs? I hope I'm not the only one using component!

Thanks, Bill

In "16:9 compressed", the pattern is shown with sidebars in 1.33 aspect ratio and the resolution clearly drops to probably under 6MHZ (The THX pattern doesn't indicate frequencies, so this is a guess)

I took another look at this, and realised that vertical resolution too is reduced, to about 480 TVL, instead of 540 TVL.

As horizontal resolution is reduced to what I guess would be 5.75 MHZ, this would mean that resolution is reduced to TV broadcast levels.

It might be concluded then, that this has been done on purpose by Pioneer to reduce ringing on 4:3 TV programming when viewing through a fixed pixel device?

On a majority of dvd "extras", TV documentaries, trailers and making of etc, there is no noticeable difference. Most of them are probably limited in frequency resolution anyway.

On the other hand, I checked "The Wizard of Oz", a 4:3 movie that a lot of people should be familiar with, and the loss of resolution is really quite obvious , i.e. as Dorothy enters Munchkin land, her blue dress is a clear indicator of the resolution levels achieved by the different settings.

I will probably keep the "16:9 compressed" mode engaged for convenience, when watching extra materiel on dvd's.

And I'll try to not forget to engage "16:9 Wide" mode when watching 4:3 movies.(This does bear a certain irony, doesn't it)

Bill Mac:

I too am using the component outs on my player ( bought my TV one year too soon before DVI and HDMI came along!)

Anyway I experimented for months with the settings because I never felt the picture looked quite right. I always felt that the picture looked too soft in some scenes and in other movies it looked like the sharpness was set too high. My TV is a Pioneer Elite Pro 710hd and has been ISF'd so the sharpness on the set was turned all the way down and the sharpness was at factory levels ( professional mode ) on the 59. But for me the picture still didn't look right. The thing that made the biggest difference and the biggest improvement was when I turned the CHROMA LEVEL way down on my player and adjusted the colour on my TV using DVE. My settings may look a little unusual but for me it is the best picture I have seen from this player.

MEMORY 1
PROG. MOTION middle
PURECINEMA Auto 2
YNR off
CNR off
SHARPNESS HIGH one click from the right ( almost fully cranked )
SHARPNESS MID two clicks from the left
DETAIL one click from the left
WHITE LEVEL middle
BLACK LEVEL middle
BLACK SETUP 7.5 IRE
GAMMA middle
HUE middle
CHROMA LEVEL one click from left ( almost fully off )
CHROMA DELAY middle


As I said before, turning the chroma level almost fully off and adjusting the colour and black level on my TV with DVE was the best thing for me.

Bill and anyone else using the component connection: What are your settings?

Lee,

Thanks for posting your settings. I have yet to fully calibrate mine with DVE, hopefully this weekend. When I do I will post my settings.

Thanks again, Bill

I took another look at this, and realised that vertical resolution too is reduced, to about 480 TVL, instead of 540 TVL.

Oups, messed up there. Avia is measuring TVL horizontally, so 540 TVL is actually 6.75 MHZ, and I measured horizontal resolution twice.

Vertical resolution then is not affected by any loss, unless I got it wrong again.

Sorry :)

The scaler I have attached will show what IRE is being input on the HDMI port in the middle of the screen.

Carl, I have the Lumagen Vision HDP since last week. But I can't find this feature in the menu. Is it an undocumented command in the service menu?

thanks, Hans

Carl, I have the Lumagen Vision HDP since last week. But I can't find this feature in the menu. Is it an undocumented command in the service menu?

thanks, Hans
It's in the service menu and it's documented. Email me and I will send you the documents that I have.

I have recently started to have a intermittent problem
with my 59 avi that is becoming more frequent.
I am using component connection and have had the
problem occur with 480i and 480p.I swapped out
my dvd player with an older Toshiba over the past
two weeks and the problem has not occured where
with the Pioneer it would happen at least once when
watching a dvd.
What happens is the picture suddenly goes all
green and gray almost like one or two of the
component colors are losing thier signal.Wondering
if anyone else knows about this or if it is a common
problem Pioneer knows about.It doesn't happen all the
time so sending it in for service could be an exercise in
futility but I may have no choice.
Last question,do you think this could be avoided
with a hmi digital connection?Tia.

Try another set of component cables or it also could be the tv or dvd connectors too.
Hdmi should be fine .
If you can take try to hook it up at a shop or in a freinds system and see if it still has the problem.
i had the same problem and it was the red connector on the tv, the 59avi was fine.

Hi - I posted an individual message on the main board earlier, but think this may be the more appropriate place to ask the question (and give some feedback as to the process).

A couple of weeks ago, I went through a website that promises a way to region-free the 59-avi without having to solder or open the back of the unit. Sounded good enough so I spent my $60 or so and waited for the mail.

What I received was the following:

A cable that goes to the com port on my laptop on one end (9-pin serial), and the other end of the cable fits into the back of the player into a very small (almost unnoticeable) slot. The slot is a bit smaller than what you would put a cell phone sim card into and there are two of them; one on the far left side, and one a bit more centered. The instructions say to use the left-center one. It's funny; I really had no idea these were there until I was told to access them.

It also came with an IR Transmitter, theory being that you can't run the mod program until you toggle the DVD player into some kind of "programming" mode. So, you hook up the cable, use the IR Transmitter on the front of the unit, and then you can run the mod program on the laptop.

Finally, there is a tiny, tiny permanent mod chip/plug that goes into that slot in back, once you have run the software through the laptop to the player, and removed the cable.

The website gives you the software to download and run, password protected so you can only do it once ostensibly, and then you have to send the cable and IR transmitter back within a month or so, in order to avoid additional fees. Obviously, you keep the tiny chip so that it can do it's thing after you have run the software upload.

Unfortunately, the IR Transmitter was DOA. When I held it up to a webcam, I noticed it wasn't sending out a light pulse so I can't get my player into this "programming" mode so I can move forward.

Does anyone know how to do this manually? I'm not sure if this so called "programming" mode is just the service menu, but it seems odd that someone would go so far as to have an IR Transmitter vs. just explaining how to enter in a code to get past that part.

If no one knows what I'm referring to, I'll wait to get a replacement IR Transmitter from the company but either way, I'll report on the end results here. It would be awesome to know there is a relatively easy way to region-free our players without having to ship them out or open the back up to modify it.

But again, if anyone can shed any light on this "programming mode", it would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

RobbW

P.S. Is region free modding a taboo subject? I don't see a lot of people talk about it here and yet I would think it would be very important to a lot of people to know there was a way to do it that didn't force you to perform surgery... :p

Thanks Steviec but I swapped dvd players
using the same component cables so the
prob is at the 59 avi and the cables go direct
to my projector.
Anyone else with some knowledge of
this player and /or a prob like this?

Hi - I posted an individual message on the main board earlier, but think this may be the more appropriate place to ask the question (and give some feedback as to the process).

A couple of weeks ago, I went through a website that promises a way to region-free the 59-avi without having to solder or open the back of the unit. Sounded good enough so I spent my $60 or so and waited for the mail.

What I received was the following:

A cable that goes to the com port on my laptop on one end (9-pin serial), and the other end of the cable fits into the back of the player into a very small (almost unnoticeable) slot. The slot is a bit smaller than what you would put a cell phone sim card into and there are two of them; one on the far left side, and one a bit more centered. The instructions say to use the left-center one. It's funny; I really had no idea these were there until I was told to access them.

It also came with an IR Transmitter, theory being that you can't run the mod program until you toggle the DVD player into some kind of "programming" mode. So, you hook up the cable, use the IR Transmitter on the front of the unit, and then you can run the mod program on the laptop.

Finally, there is a tiny, tiny permanent mod chip/plug that goes into that slot in back, once you have run the software through the laptop to the player, and removed the cable.

The website gives you the software to download and run, password protected so you can only do it once ostensibly, and then you have to send the cable and IR transmitter back within a month or so, in order to avoid additional fees. Obviously, you keep the tiny chip so that it can do it's thing after you have run the software upload.

Unfortunately, the IR Transmitter was DOA. When I held it up to a webcam, I noticed it wasn't sending out a light pulse so I can't get my player into this "programming" mode so I can move forward.

Does anyone know how to do this manually? I'm not sure if this so called "programming" mode is just the service menu, but it seems odd that someone would go so far as to have an IR Transmitter vs. just explaining how to enter in a code to get past that part.

If no one knows what I'm referring to, I'll wait to get a replacement IR Transmitter from the company but either way, I'll report on the end results here. It would be awesome to know there is a relatively easy way to region-free our players without having to ship them out or open the back up to modify it.

But again, if anyone can shed any light on this "programming mode", it would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

RobbW

P.S. Is region free modding a taboo subject? I don't see a lot of people talk about it here and yet I would think it would be very important to a lot of people to know there was a way to do it that didn't force you to perform surgery... :p

I am very interested to hear how this all pans out. Region hack is not taboo, but copy protection hack is I'm guessing. Please keep us updated!

If you go back to the PDF on the 79avi in the 79avi thread, strictly speaking the data won't be coming from the MPEG decoder for 480i. It (hopefully) will come from a "filter" right after it that masks/corrects the CUE bug. I don't recall them using a new MPEG coder and I didn't go back and try to find and reread the info. Also, the 79avi will be capable of 10bit YCbCr, IIRC. I don't believe the 59avi can do 10bit YCbCr. But, until somebody gets a 79avi and verifies all this, we won't know for sure.

Also, somebody, somewhere here claimed they can get YCbCr from the 59avi (actually a 868 Euro model). However, it wouldn't surprise me if the 59avi only did output RGB. Remember that the 59avi was one of the first HDMI output DVD players and it did NOT have the HDMI->DVI BTB/WTW clipping bug. This is a good indication that the YCbCr was converted to RGB _before_ going into the HDMI output chip. The HDMI didn't have a chance to exhibit the bug. Again, this is speculation based on certain facts.

Larry, I can confirm that 59AVi outputs VCbCr over HDMI with default settings.

RobbW does your display support PAL?

Thanks Steviec but I swapped dvd players
using the same component cables so the
prob is at the 59 avi and the cables go direct
to my projector.
Anyone else with some knowledge of
this player and /or a prob like this?

Are you saying that using the same component cables with a different 59avi player that it worked fine or what?
If you swapped players and used the same cables with the same result, try a new pair of cables.

Larry, I can confirm that 59AVi outputs VCbCr over HDMI with default settings.

How did you confirm YCbCr over HDMI?

Yes Tpaxadpom (You'll have to fill me in on the meaning of that name sometime hehehe), I have a Sammy DLP and have watched many "Region 0" PAL DVD's. However, it would be nice to be able to break out some R2-5 foreign films or titles that you just can't find out here (i.e. The Quiet Earth, BBC's Spaced) and actually be able to play them without going through the machinations of hooking my laptop up to the DLP.

It's so silly, I have everything I need to make the modification, and am stuck simply because I can't get through to the "programming" mode on the player. Being that the IR Transmitter is certainly just transmitting some sort of code sequence that I presume could be manually entered into a palm or something and transmitted using a different device, I just figured someone would know what that code was or how to do it given that the "hard part" should have been the actually flashing of the unit once the programming mode is accessed.

At worst case, I'll go back to the web site where I got the plug mod and get another black box, but since I'm working with both a language barrier and an international retailer, it's probably going to take a lot of time that I was hoping to avoid.

Once this is done, I'll absolutely report back to the crowd here as to the rest of the process and the end result as I suspect I'm not the only one that would like to be able to play all-regions. ;)

Cheers,

RobbW

P.S. So if anyone knows how to access that mode/menu... :p

mimason,
my tv (Pioneer Elite PRO-730HDi) has the ability to identify input signals automatically as well as manually. The options are Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr 4:2:2; Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr 4:4:4 and RGB over HDMI. DV-59AVi outputs Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr 4:4:4 (according to TV manual). My Samsung HD box only has DVI out, so I only get RGB through DVI-HDMI cable.

RobbW, LOL. I don't think I have to explain the meaning, you got it!
You are lucky, cause you have a display that supports PAL. I have to use a different DVD player for PAL DVD's.

Thanks for your concern Steviec,
I tried a Toshiba dvd player in place of the 59 avi
with the same component cables and the prob did
not occur.I since have reconnected the 59 avi
back with the same cables and it has not
happened after watching four dvd's.
It could be the cable as it connects to the
player and if it happens again I will get
a hdmi to dvi cable with the dvi to m1
adapter for the IF 4805 as it is probably
a better connection anyway and would
eliminate the possibility of it being the
fault of my component cables.I guess that
no one else has had this problem with
thier 59 avi so that is reassuring.

mimason,
my tv (Pioneer Elite PRO-730HDi) has the ability to identify input signals automatically as well as manually. The options are Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr 4:2:2; Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr 4:4:4 and RGB over HDMI. DV-59AVi outputs Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr 4:4:4 (according to TV manual). My Samsung HD box only has DVI out, so I only get RGB through DVI-HDMI cable. Good to know. When you say "according to TV manual" you mean the "indication" that the TV does when fed by the 59avi is "decoded in the TV manual" to mean YCbCr 4:4:4 ?

larry

Larry,
TV has four options: Auto, Color 1, Color 2 and Color 3. If I change this setting manually this is what I get:
DVD works with Color 2 option that according to the TVs manual is YCbCr 4:4:4.
HD box connected via DVI-HDMI cable (HDMI on TV) is Color 3 which is RGB. If I change Color settings to something else with given source, I will end up with screwed up picture (weird color shift).

Gotcha, thanks.

larry

Hi - I posted an individual message on the main board earlier, but think this may be the more appropriate place to ask the question (and give some feedback as to the process).

A couple of weeks ago, I went through a website that promises a way to region-free the 59-avi without having to solder or open the back of the unit. Sounded good enough so I spent my $60 or so and waited for the mail.

What I received was the following:

A cable that goes to the com port on my laptop on one end (9-pin serial), and the other end of the cable fits into the back of the player into a very small (almost unnoticeable) slot. The slot is a bit smaller than what you would put a cell phone sim card into and there are two of them; one on the far left side, and one a bit more centered. The instructions say to use the left-center one. It's funny; I really had no idea these were there until I was told to access them.

It also came with an IR Transmitter, theory being that you can't run the mod program until you toggle the DVD player into some kind of "programming" mode. So, you hook up the cable, use the IR Transmitter on the front of the unit, and then you can run the mod program on the laptop.

Finally, there is a tiny, tiny permanent mod chip/plug that goes into that slot in back, once you have run the software through the laptop to the player, and removed the cable.

The website gives you the software to download and run, password protected so you can only do it once ostensibly, and then you have to send the cable and IR transmitter back within a month or so, in order to avoid additional fees. Obviously, you keep the tiny chip so that it can do it's thing after you have run the software upload.

Unfortunately, the IR Transmitter was DOA. When I held it up to a webcam, I noticed it wasn't sending out a light pulse so I can't get my player into this "programming" mode so I can move forward.

Does anyone know how to do this manually? I'm not sure if this so called "programming" mode is just the service menu, but it seems odd that someone would go so far as to have an IR Transmitter vs. just explaining how to enter in a code to get past that part.

If no one knows what I'm referring to, I'll wait to get a replacement IR Transmitter from the company but either way, I'll report on the end results here. It would be awesome to know there is a relatively easy way to region-free our players without having to ship them out or open the back up to modify it.

But again, if anyone can shed any light on this "programming mode", it would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

RobbW

P.S. Is region free modding a taboo subject? I don't see a lot of people talk about it here and yet I would think it would be very important to a lot of people to know there was a way to do it that didn't force you to perform surgery... :p
Just wanted to give you guys a final update. As it turns out, some IR remotes are still in working condition even if your webcam doesn't show the light pulses. =) There was nothing ultimately wrong with my IR remote to get me into programming mode. It's just that the front of the 59AVi doesn't show any indication that you have successfully toggled modes. When I went back and held the remote in front of the sensor for about 2-3 seconds, and just tried it as if it worked, I found it actually did work and i was able to proceed.

So, from that point, the software program that I was running dumped the firmware from the player to my computer and sent it out for validation to the internet server I was wirelessly connected to. The response from the server said that I could choose between 3 replacement firmwares (each one a version above from the previous), or just use the original. I tried to reflash the player with the newest firmware I saw to choose from, but after trying all 3, I was only able to put back the original firmware version to my player. =( All of the other versions gave me errors coming back from the DVD Player as if the player itself wouldn't let me put those on.

Fair enough, I reflashed the player using the "original" firmware and when it finished about 2 minutes later, I turned off the player and disconnected the cable in back that went from my laptop to the player. Then, I inserted the tiny litle chip they had sent me separate from everything else into the plug/slot that I had previously used on the 59 to hook the computer cable into. Once that step was done, I turned on the player and prayed it would power up. =)

It did. I took a look at my settings to see if anything had changed and it appeared that all of my player settings had stayed intact. (I later read that if you use the original firmware (as if I had a choice btw) you don't have to redo all of your settings). I tested my player with a number of different region DVD's and VOILA!, everything worked beautifully. I noticed in the system menu that I now had an area under video settings that allowed me to manually change regions from one to another at will, but the player also auto-recognized the proper region to set the player to when putting in a disk so that isn't something to deal with, although it is available.

So, I can heartily recommend this process if it's worth $60-70 or so to you to go region free without having to send your player out anywhere, and without having to open up the back or anything. For an extra $30, they will also give you the update to remove that annoying locking of your player when you first put a DVD in so you can watch the "PIRACY IS A CRIME" trailer and other stuff. I just didn't personally want to spend the extra bucks for that.

Cheers,

RobbW

Hi guys. I 've been researching the 59AVi and think it is the player for me. My question is, via the hdmi cable to a Panny series 7 series plasma (with the optional hdmi board), will the player display it in 1080i or 480i ? I'm just learning about this player, so pardon my ignorance.

Also, would the sound be improved if I went iLink instead of digital coaxial ? if so, why ? Is it simply because there would be no jitter induced scenarios ?

So, I can heartily recommend this process if it's worth $60-70 or so to you to go region free without having to send your player out anywhere

RobbW - have a web link for us for the company? Also, what is the version firmware on your unit and do you recall the versions available above yours from that server?

Thanks
Paul.

I picked up store demo this past week. I am very impressed with the picture quality especially via HDMI. It's more than I can say for the 74 txvi receiver.

Anyone know what the latest software version should be? and how do I check mine ?

I picked up store demo this past week. I am very impressed with the picture quality especially via HDMI. It's more than I can say for the 74 txvi receiver.

Anyone know what the latest software version should be? and how do I check mine ?

From the first post in this thread:

"Firmware check for 59avi:

In Initial Settings->Options, while at this menu press DISPLAY in the remote, at the bottom of the screen you can see the firmware version. There has been 306, 406 and 506."

Congrats on your purchase, and hope you enjoy it!

From the first post in this thread:

"Firmware check for 59avi:

In Initial Settings->Options, while at this menu press DISPLAY in the remote, at the bottom of the screen you can see the firmware version. There has been 306, 406 and 506."

Congrats on your purchase, and hope you enjoy it!

I too am considering the purchase of a "used" 59avi which is for sale via a private owner. The unit seems to be in top shape, but I have the following questions:
(1) It was purchased new from an authorized dealer about one year ago. Is it likely to have the latest firmware installed, which I guess is version 506?
(2) If not, what does it take to get the unit updated, e.g., are there any costs associated with the upgrades? Who can and will perform the upgrade? Thanks

Pioneer does the upgrade. But I do not actually remember anything within the firmware upgrades being noticeable by any user.

A year old unit will most likely have the latest firmware. From memory, I think units with build dates after Aug 2004 all had the latest firmware. ??

Pioneer does the upgrade. But I do not actually remember anything within the firmware upgrades being noticeable by any user.

A year old unit will most likely have the latest firmware. From memory, I think units with build dates after Aug 2004 all had the latest firmware. ??

I believe that is correct from what I recall. Mine had a build date of Nov or Dec 2004 and had the latest firmware.

I believe that is correct from what I recall. Mine had a build date of Nov or Dec 2004 and had the latest firmware.

I contacted the owner of the unit I am interested in purchasing and asked him to perform the test as described to determine the firmware version installed in his unit. Apparently this is not convenient for him to do, but he did supply me with the serial number. Is there any way to determine the build date from the SN? Thanks to all for your wisdom here.

I contacted the owner of the unit I am interested in purchasing and asked him to perform the test as described to determine the firmware version installed in his unit. Apparently this is not convenient for him to do, but he did supply me with the serial number. Is there any way to determine the build date from the SN? Thanks to all for your wisdom here.

I don't know if you can tell the build date from the serial number. Does he still have the original box? The build date is actually on the outside of the Pioneer box. I would assume it is somewhere on the player too, but not sure where.

I don't know if you can tell the build date from the serial number. Does he still have the original box? The build date is actually on the outside of the Pioneer box. I would assume it is somewhere on the player too, but not sure where.

For what it's worth, the serial number is DCMP001822CC. Could this indicate a build date of August 22, 2001? Did the 59avi exist in the marketplace as of 2001? (I don't think so.)

For what it's worth, the serial number is DCMP001822CC. Could this indicate a build date of August 22, 2001? Did the 59avi exist in the marketplace as of 2001? (I don't think so.)

My 59 has serial #EAMP007..... , build date Jan 2005, and firmware 1.516. Was a dealer (Magnolia) demo that I got about 6 weeks ago; has been superb, and many thanks are due to the contributers to this thread for helping me get it set-up well.

My 59 has serial #EAMP007..... , build date Jan 2005, and firmware 1.516. Was a dealer (Magnolia) demo that I got about 6 weeks ago; has been superb, and many thanks are due to the contributers to this thread for helping me get it set-up well.

Just saw a unit in a store with July, 2005, build date and serial number that began with EG.... So, I am concluding that E stands for the fifth year of the millenium (2005) and G is the 7th letter in the alphabet, just as July is the 7th month. This fits with your unit having a number that begins EA and build date January, 2005. Thus I conclude that the unit available to me was built in March, 2004 (SN begins DC...). Should I worry about buying a 59avi that does not have the latest firmware update? I know that when Secrets re-tested the upgraded 59avi, Kris Deering did not find any significant improvements compared to the one he tested in early 2004. Input from anyone knowledgable is appreciated and thanks.

Just saw a unit in a store with July, 2005, build date and serial number that began with EG.... So, I am concluding that E stands for the fifth year of the millenium (2005) and G is the 7th letter in the alphabet, just as July is the 7th month. This fits with your unit having a number that begins EA and build date January, 2005. Thus I conclude that the unit available to me was built in March, 2004 (SN begins DC...). Should I worry about buying a 59avi that does not have the latest firmware update? I know that when Secrets re-tested the upgraded 59avi, Kris Deering did not find any significant improvements compared to the one he tested in early 2004. Input from anyone knowledgable is appreciated and thanks.

You can read some posts earlier in the thread that discuss which of the later firmwares are acceptible; as I remember, it is any 1.5xx and higher. There was also info as to what build date this corresponds to, but I just don't remember that.

When I bought mine about a year ago (early 2005) it had the latest commonly available firmware at the time (506). I noted the same issues that Secrets did. There was supposedly an even newer version of firmware floating around (maybe 516) but I did not bother trying to acquire it, as the reported fixes were very minor (if any) and not pertinant to any of the issues.

The store demo however, had a really old build date (NOV 2003) and some terrible old firmware (306) that looked like crap. So I believe that as long as you have 406 or later you will have the best possible picture as reported by Secrets.

If you buy from a good Elite dealer (not a big-box or online) they should be able to get firmware updates from their Pioneer rep.

Note I am only using this player with analog component for now, and was able to improve the picture by tweaking its DETAIL and SHARPNESS settings, something Secrets does not advocate. This player tends to get the best reviews with HDMI only so I think most people are overlooking its COMPONENT performance potential!

I know that when Secrets re-tested the upgraded 59avi, Kris Deering did not find any significant improvements compared to the one he tested in early 2004.

Bingo. I actually think the 1st unit Secrets tested was a 1.306. (The player they reviewed was not too long after the they first came out.) Again, Kris didn't spot any significant differences between the original one and 1.506.

FWIW, firmware on Pios is not really similar to say Denon and some others where major bugs are fixed. (Except maybe the 578 player where a firmware upgrade fixed some things with DVD-A discs that didn't play properly or something.) Pio firmware is usually pretty robust from the get-go.

The 59AVi was released approx Aug 2003.

The 59AVi was released approx Aug 2003.

The 59AVi was one of the first DVD players released with an HDMI connection, and has held up quite well to subsequent players released in the 2 1/2 years that it has been on the market.

I agree. I am still miffed at myself for waiting until the Denon 3910 came out, and then taking 6 months to decide between the 59AVi and 3910, and then buying the 59AVi anyway. (I am 100% a Pio guy owning the 414, 333, 05, 45a, 47Ai, and 59AVi over the past 8 or so years. But the 3910 was the 1st real challenger in my eyes.)

Now, probably just like a lot of people, I am waiting to see what the news is for the 79AVi and the strange defect that Kris has found. But until then, my 59AVi ain't goin' nowhere. :)

I'll put this here because there is sometimes too much emotion in that 79AVi thread, but there is no question that the 79AVi has a better "build quality" than the 59AVi. But ... The consensus seems to be to me, that there isn't much video improvement (and with that defect, it might be worse), and that the better build quality only gets you better audio quality for the analog outputs. I don't think it's going to help much for just using the player as a digital transport (i.e., CD and DVD-V).

The 59AVi was one of the first DVD players released with an HDMI connection, and has held up quite well to subsequent players released in the 2 1/2 years that it has been on the market.

.. and actually still ahead of them in outputting 480i.

and to compare with the Denon 3910, the denon can have *either* HDMI or component active. The pio has both active at the same time. Just for this thing alone I will still buy the pio today.

Is the 59avi's HDMI connection version 1.1 (i.e can carry DVD-Audio, pcm)? Sorry, but I've done a search in this thread and can't find where it might have already been answered. Thx
Ted

Hi Paul - sorry for the delayed response as I was on vacation. My firmware is 306 and 406/506 were available to choose on the menu but I couldn't get them to load. The only firmware that worked was my own.

The link is: dvdupgrades.ch for the main site or the direct link to this mod was:

http://www.highdefinition.ch/20014/Modification/DVDupgrades/Pioneer/Advanced_Plug_Mod_Pioneer_DV_59.html

Cheers,

RobbW

Hello,

I am trying have my 59Avi play audio in 5.1 in my theater AND at the same time, downmix to 2 channel so I can hear the audio in another room.

I can't find out how to do this. When I try, I can seem to only get 5.1, which only plays the front L/R in the other room.

Is there a setting somewhere that I am missing to allow the both to play at the same time.

This is really a problem, as I just added 4 lcd televisions, with pairs of speakers, and now they are useless.

Thanks for the help,
Keith

Now do not make fun of me because I am mentioning Sony ES... I am not one of those sony deciples...

Rather I am a Panasonic th-50phd7uy plasma owner who's screen suffers from horrible macroblocking from my Panasonic S97 (a faroudja based DVD player).

Both the Pioneer and Sony products use prioprietary processing... that is why I am curious if anyone has done a comparison of the DV-59AVi and Sony DVP-NS3100ES or DVP-NS9100ES?

Another curiosity... Are there any panny owners out there who can tell me how the DV-59AVi marries with their screen?

Thanks in advance for your time and supprt...

BG

Hi Paul - sorry for the delayed response as I was on vacation.
The link is: dvdupgrades.ch for the main site
Cheers,
RobbW

RobbW - many thanks, I think this may be worth the price just to get rid of the User Operation Prohibitions.

It's interesting to see you guys talking about the 59avi as if it were a "here and now" product, when in fact it has been discontinued in favor of the 79avi. I need to purchase an upscaling DVD player and have narrowed down my choices to the 59avi vs the 79avi. I had decided upon the 59avi, because leftover new units are now a bit less expensive than the 79avi and also because of the possible glitch in the 79avi, as described by Kris Deering over in the 79avi thread. But today I am wondering whether this is the right course of action, since the price difference between the two is not great (about 100 to 150 reasons) and the 79avi brouhaha seems to be settling down a bit. Moreover, no user (except Kris the tester) has had any serious criticism of the 79avi; most seem to love it, in fact. In addition, I am now wondering whether the 79avi may have superior audio circuitry and or power supplies, to account for its greater weight and size. So, this is a last minute re-thinking for me; should I go ahead and get the 59avi, anyway? I know that they are both excellent and that I really cannot go wrong. Call it audio/videophile neurosis. Thanks for any opinions.

It's interesting to see you guys talking about the 59avi as if it were a "here and now" product, when in fact it has been discontinued in favor of the 79avi. I need to purchase an upscaling DVD player and have narrowed down my choices to the 59avi vs the 79avi. I had decided upon the 59avi, because leftover new units are now a bit less expensive than the 79avi and also because of the possible glitch in the 79avi, as described by Kris Deering over in the 79avi thread. But today I am wondering whether this is the right course of action, since the price difference between the two is not great (about 100 to 150 reasons) and the 79avi brouhaha seems to be settling down a bit. Moreover, no user (except Kris the tester) has had any serious criticism of the 79avi; most seem to love it, in fact. In addition, I am now wondering whether the 79avi may have superior audio circuitry and or power supplies, to account for its greater weight and size. So, this is a last minute re-thinking for me; should I go ahead and get the 59avi, anyway? I know that they are both excellent and that I really cannot go wrong. Call it audio/videophile neurosis. Thanks for any opinions.

I think people do like the 79, and probably rightly so. But I don't think they 'love it' in comparison to a 59, since very few of them have compared the two directly; i.e., I'm sure they would 'love' the 59 also. Which one one would love the most, I do not know! (I love my 59.)

I think people do like the 79, and probably rightly so. But I don't think they 'love it' in comparison to a 59, since very few of them have compared the two directly; i.e., I'm sure they would 'love' the 59 also. Which one one would love the most, I do not know! (I love my 59.)

Personally I am sticking wiht the 59AVi - I see no reason to change to the 79AVi.


Oh, that's right, its heavier :-)

Personally I am sticking wiht the 59AVi - I see no reason to change to the 79AVi.


Oh, that's right, its heavier :-)

I'm in agreement with you, Tony (as usual!). Bill

It's interesting to see you guys talking about the 59avi as if it were a "here and now" product, when in fact it has been discontinued in favor of the 79avi. I need to purchase an upscaling DVD player and have narrowed down my choices to the 59avi vs the 79avi. I had decided upon the 59avi, because leftover new units are now a bit less expensive than the 79avi and also because of the possible glitch in the 79avi, as described by Kris Deering over in the 79avi thread. But today I am wondering whether this is the right course of action, since the price difference between the two is not great (about 100 to 150 reasons) and the 79avi brouhaha seems to be settling down a bit. Moreover, no user (except Kris the tester) has had any serious criticism of the 79avi; most seem to love it, in fact. In addition, I am now wondering whether the 79avi may have superior audio circuitry and or power supplies, to account for its greater weight and size. So, this is a last minute re-thinking for me; should I go ahead and get the 59avi, anyway? I know that they are both excellent and that I really cannot go wrong. Call it audio/videophile neurosis. Thanks for any opinions.

If you are following the 79 thread then you saw that one 59 owner actually came to the table and indicated that the Gladiator scene in question also caused his 59 to spit and spudder. I am sure there is a deinterlacing glitch but it seems to me that the problem is going to cause a problem on so few and for so brief a time on any titles that it's almost a nonissue to all but the most critical. All this from someone close to being called 'video anal'. I feel the MB issues of the Faroudja chips is a far more irritating problem.

To answer your question. If I had a 59avi I'd keep it and be content. If I were in the market for a new 59/79 I'd choose the 79 without question. Improved audio, build quality, resale value are a given.

If you are following the 79 thread then you saw that one 59 owner actually came to the table and indicated that the Gladiator scene in question also caused his 59 to spit and spudder. I am sure there is a deinterlacing glitch but it seems to me that the problem is going to cause a problem on so few and for so brief a time on any titles that it's almost a nonissue to all but the much critical. All this from someone close to being called 'video anal'. I feel the MB issues of the Faroudja chips is a far more irritating problem.

To answer your question. If I had a 59avi I'd keep it and be content. If I were in the market for a new 59/79 I'd choose the 79 without question. Improved audio, build quality, resale value are a given.

Hard to argue with that sound advice. Yes, pun intended! :p

To answer your question. If I had a 59avi I'd keep it and be content. If I were in the market for a new 59/79 I'd choose the 79 without question. Improved audio, build quality, resale value are a given.

Well said, I agree you can not go wrong with either choice.

Bill

To the last couple of guys who replied about 59 vs. 79...

If you had a player that was getting tossed (my POS is a panny S97 - horrible MB)... and were starting from scratch on the 59 vs. 79 question)...

Would you spend the extra few hundred bucks to get the 79???

Independent power to audio and video circuitry, enhanced digital video circuitry (10 bit via HDMI - is this true or just a bunch of marketing spin)... and more weight :)

Please advise.

BG

P.S. - I am about to make a decision between the 59, 79, or the Sony 3100ES. Why consider the sony you ask... it is 1/2 the price of these other players, has a descent picture.. and would be a real stop gap until HD-DVD is avail...

Hello all,

I am having a problem with playing SACD on this player. I have the 59AVi connected to a Pioneer Elite 56TXi receiver via the included iLink cable. When I play an SACD I hear random pops throughout the disc. They never seem to be in the same place on the disc so I would assume the disc itself is not at fault. I never hear this popping with any other type of audio passed over the iLink connection including DVD-Audio. Any ideas on what might be wrong? Is it the receiver perhaps? Thanks for any help that you can provide.

I am sticking with my 59AVI and waiting for Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. Saw both at CES and the demos by Panasonic, Sony and Samsung looked great.

I just added a Bel Canto DAC2 to my 59avi last week and this unit is sounding pretty darn good! For those who have considered audio mods this is a good alternative. I am using this setup for RB CD's. Previously I used the Ilink through a 56txi...this sounded alright. Currently I still use the Ilink 56txi for DVD's and the 59avi & Bel Canto are routed to a tube pre and amp. At this point I'm happy with my 2ch & ht.
Jeff

I am sticking with my 59AVI and waiting for Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. Saw both at CES and the demos by Panasonic, Sony and Samsung looked great.

We are on the same page ...

Just saw this thread pop up again
and thought I would let eveyone know
that my previous problem turned out
to be a bad component cable and was not
the fault of the 59 avi.
Got a hdmi /dvi cable and adapter from monoprice
for IF 4805 to replace it and the picture is even
better now.

Just saw this thread pop up again
and thought I would let eveyone know
that my previous problem turned out
to be a bad component cable and was not
the fault of the 59 avi.
Got a hdmi /dvi cable and adapter from monoprice
for IF 4805 to replace it and the picture is even
better now.

Glad to hear it!

I have a 59AVi, and am simply waiting for the final results of Kris's testing before I decide to stick or get the 79AVi.

I have a 59AVi, and am simply waiting for the final results of Kris's testing before I decide to stick or get the 79AVi.

You do know that Pioneer will release an Elite Blu-Ray player in March, right?

That's the one I'm saving up for! :)

You do know that Pioneer will release an Elite Blu-Ray player in March, right?

That's the one I'm saving up for! :)

Any idea if the March release unit will continue to support 480i out for backward compatibility with non-BluRay discs?

Any idea if the March release unit will continue to support 480i out for backward compatibility with non-BluRay discs?

I don't know. Here is a link: http://ces.betanews.com/entry/Pioneer_Preps_1800_Bluray_Player/1136422941

I was wrong on the date. Looks like May or June will be the release date.

Here is Pioneers press release, but it still doesn't say anything about 480i output:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/press/release/detail/0,,2076_4313_291805824,00.html

P.S. How's the room coming Ray? :)

You do know that Pioneer will release an Elite Blu-Ray player in March, right?

Don't care. :) I am going to sit this one out. I personally firmly believe that both Blu-ray and HD DVD (or just one of them) will survive, as (a) niche format(s), not unlike Laserdisc, and DVD-V will continue to rule the roost.

Hmmm, ... not unlike CD and DVD-A/SACD. ;)

I am happy enough with good DVD-V playback.

Plus (just perused some of the Blu-ray forum), it won't have DVD-A, SACD, or HD-DVD. If ever there's a "next gen" universal player that includes all those, then I'd be interested. I won't be an early adopter this time.

Here is Pioneers press release, but it still doesn't say anything about 480i output:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/press/release/detail/0,,2076_4313_291805824,00.html

P.S. How's the room coming Ray? :)

Rob, thanks for the links. As for the room, let's just say that when I lived in the Bahamas I owned a boat. It closely fit the description often given as a moving hole in the water into which you throw all of your money. Then you sell it. :rolleyes: :D Well, this is my first HT with projector so it's a learning experience. I'm probably going to buy either a 59avi or 79avi (just looking into it in the forums, don't know the diffs. yet) in order to get 480i out to my new DVDO scaler. Hence the question. I'll probably wait a bit on Blu-Ray and stay with upconvert for now.

Don't care. :) I am going to sit this one out. I personally firmly believe that both Blu-ray and HD DVD (or just one of them) will survive, as (a) niche format(s), not unlike Laserdisc, and DVD-V will continue to rule the roost.

Hmmm, ... not unlike CD and DVD-A/SACD. ;)

I am happy enough with good DVD-V playback.

Plus (just perused some of the Blu-ray forum), it won't have DVD-A, SACD, or HD-DVD. If ever there's a "next gen" universal player that includes all those, then I'd be interested. I won't be an early adopter this time.

Wow, I am kind of surprised to hear this from you. You always seem to be in search of the best PQ possible, which is exactly what you will get from Blu-Ray. And the difference in PQ between Blu-Ray or HD-DVD and standard def DVD won't be small.

I don't remember: what display are you using?

Rob, thanks for the links. As for the room, let's just say that when I lived in the Bahamas I owned a boat. It closely fit the description often given as a moving hole in the water into which you throw all of your money. Then you sell it. :rolleyes: :D Well, this is my first HT with projector so it's a learning experience. I'm probably going to buy either a 59avi or 79avi (just looking into it in the forums, don't know the diffs. yet) in order to get 480i out to my new DVDO scaler. Hence the question. I'll probably wait a bit on Blu-Ray and stay with upconvert for now.

Good luck. Building an HT is definitely a learning experience, and it takes quite a bit of patience!

just picked up a 59avi today for 750 its runninng a krell showcase and tas amp with krell resolution speakers and i love it i was thinking showcase dvd but thought this was the best steal what do you think? :D

Not a bad decision to save a few grand! I preferred the sound of the Elite to a Linn Unidisk so go figure... all my other stuff is "hi-end".

Im happy to sit on the fence to see what they all offer in the next year

Pritch,

Where did you get the hookup for 750?

just picked up a 59avi today for 750 its runninng a krell showcase and tas amp with krell resolution speakers and i love it i was thinking showcase dvd but thought this was the best steal what do you think? :D

tweeter it was a demo but a good deal :D

Google shopper brings up quite a few for $675-750. One of these vendors is bound to be decent, or reputable. Etronics is one I've bought from.....very good deal right now. All I'll say.

Wow, I am kind of surprised to hear this from you. You always seem to be in search of the best PQ possible, which is exactly what you will get from Blu-Ray. And the difference in PQ between Blu-Ray or HD-DVD and standard def DVD won't be small. I don't remember: what display are you using?

Rob- You might be thinking of someone else. :) I still have a 32" Toshiba CRT. Which, ironically can do 1080i through component. (And with that, it has this feature where it squeezes 480p vertically into whatever aspect ratio the DVD is shot in. Excellent picture, ... if a little small. Avia'ed, and I've even tweeked some things in the service menu.) I have been looking at Panasonic plasmas for over a year, but the changing (floating) black level (DC restoration) has me in pause mode.

Just a question, I'm using the hdmi output via a hdmi-dvi adaptor cable and everything looks great, but the last thing I'm not sure of is whether I should leave the unit in progressive mode or interlaced or does it even matter as I'm upconverting to 1080i. On a side note, I recently moved to this player after a very frustrating 1 year trying everything I could to get a Denon 2910 to look right. SOOO glad I made the switch as I won't miss the green depression/push and all the macroblocking on my Mits 55".

Just a question, I'm using the hdmi output via a hdmi-dvi adaptor cable and everything looks great, but the last thing I'm not sure of is whether I should leave the unit in progressive mode or interlaced or does it even matter as I'm upconverting to 1080i. On a side note, I recently moved to this player after a very frustrating 1 year trying everything I could to get a Denon 2910 to look right. SOOO glad I made the switch as I won't miss the green depression/push and all the macroblocking on my Mits 55".

I know what you mean! I had a 2910 for almost a year before returning it for a 59 and have never been more pleased. (Fortunately my regular salesman at Magnolia let me swap it for only $140 extra--what a prince! Loyalty pays.)

I just found a used 59 that is only 6 mos old for $600 and it is like new. Should be here this week. Hope that was a good deal. I am going from a Denon 1920 that I have had less than 2 months and I am hoping that there will be a more than noticeable difference in PQ. Hoping that the audio will be at least as good as the Denon.

jimed1: sounds like a great deal--congrats! I don't think you'll be disappointed.

I just found a used 59 that is only 6 mos old for $600 and it is like new. Should be here this week. .


Sounds like a fair price. What's nice is that the build date is on the back of the player to verify for reasonableness of age.

Sounds like a fair price. What's nice is that the build date is on the back of the player to verify for reasonableness of age.

Yeah, I am interested in when it was made. I know it was purchased in July 2005 but, could have been made in July 2004 so, I will check that out. I also am going to verify that the firmware is the latest. Version 506 is still the latest, correct? I will be trying to read through this thread over the next few days for comments on settings and setup. So far I see that Auto 2 is the preferred Mode setting.
I have DVE and will be trying to use it to calibrate although I find that disc confusing and lacking in directions. My Sony set has lots of adjustments in the menu but DVE doesn't seem to address those. I also have been contemplating getting SpyderTV. This is my first go around with an above average display (Sony SXRD) and dvd player and I want to make the most of it.

Man I am excited about this thing. I have always liked the looks of Elite products and have always wanted to own one. Glad this is a good player at a reasonable price. I may try to swing an Elite receiver at a later date if they are getting good reviews. I figure I either want an Elite or a Denon.

My firmware is 516, with a build date of Jan 2005.

My firmware is 516, with a build date of Jan 2005.

Is the build date coded or is it obvious?

Thanks

Is the build date coded or is it obvious?

Thanks

It's obvious; printed with other info on the back.

I have a 79avi and they are seeing y/c delay and other problems with it. I was curious as to what the state of the bugs are with the 59avi?


I think I had heard about the CUE bug and others with it, in its latest build and firmware version, what issues if any have the 59avi still got?

I ask because since I paid full retail for my 79avi and it seems to have some definite problems, though not all may show up in real world viewing, many are saying in the 79avi thread the 59avi is the better player in some respects.

So can folks update me on its current bug/build status? Thanks!

A quick reminder what a "CUE bug" is would be helpful.


I have a 79avi and they are seeing y/c delay and other problems with it. I was curious as to what the state of the bugs are with the 59avi?


I think I had heard about the CUE bug and others with it, in its latest build and firmware version, what issues if any have the 59avi still got?

I ask because since I paid full retail for my 79avi and it seems to have some definite problems, though not all may show up in real world viewing, many are saying in the 79avi thread the 59avi is the better player in some respects.

So can folks update me on its current bug/build status? Thanks!

I have a 79avi and they are seeing y/c delay and other problems with it. I was curious as to what the state of the bugs are with the 59avi?


I think I had heard about the CUE bug and others with it, in its latest build and firmware version, what issues if any have the 59avi still got?

I ask because since I paid full retail for my 79avi and it seems to have some definite problems, though not all may show up in real world viewing, many are saying in the 79avi thread the 59avi is the better player in some respects.

So can folks update me on its current bug/build status? Thanks!

I have been following the 79AVi thread waiting to see how it tested out. Kris Deering says the 79 has more issues than the 59 does, and that prompted me to buy a 59 instead of a 79. If you already have a 79, you could sell it and buy a 59 (if you can find one) and probably have some money left over. Or, if you are happy with your 79 just keep it. No one that has the 79 has noticed anything while viewing except for that Gladiator scene, and from what I have read, most all players have a problem with that scene. The best place to read about the 59 and its issues is at the Secrets of Home Theater website. The 59 didn't do so hot over component but using, HDMI it only failed two tests. I don't know if the bugs have been fixed that the 59 has or not . I think the latest firmware Kris tested was 1.506 and I believe the current firmware for the 59 is 1.516. I really doubt the later firmware fixed much but it might have. One thing I have learned is that from now on I will definitely wait until reviews start coming out before I buy another component. Maybe it shouldn't be surprising that the 79 didn't test as well as the 59 since it's MSRP is about $600 dollars less than the 59 was when it came out. If it is supposed the be the flagship player for Elite, I would not have thought the price would drop that much if any. The chasis is built better than the 59 but they must have cut some costs somewhere in the electronics...
Sorry I have rambled and I know I didn't answer your question... Just thinking out loud I guess.

Ok. I did it... My Panny S97 is days away from being replaced by a 59avi (etronics $xxx).

Anyone want to sway me on upgrading to the 79?

all thoughts (congratulations or critical analysis) would be greatly appreciated...

BG

Stats...I am going to Marry this player with a panny 50ph7uy, a Denon 4306 receiver, and monitor audio speakers.

I would wait until Kris writes up the 79AVi, because I'm sure he'll address comparisons to the 59AVi. At this point in time for the right price, the 59AVi is a no-brainer though, I think. It has proven itself to be a good machine. Just that I would expect the audio for the 79AVi to be incrementally better, it does reportedly have a better layer change than the the 59AVi, but then personally, I'll still be curious if any of the video issues with the 79AVi can be "fixed" by Pio with a firmware upgrade.

I agree with Kevin.

Congrats on the 59avi. What model of Monitor Audio speakers do you have? Have have some Silvers and Gold Reference. :)

Monitor 3's (tall) in front with a matching center. Monitor 2.5 (same speaker- bookshelf size) in L/R rear and I just picked up two of their Radius 90's for my L/R surrounds. I am using an HSU sub...

7.1 here I come...

I agree with Kevin.

Congrats on the 59avi. What model of Monitor Audio speakers do you have? Have have some Silvers and Gold Reference. :)

Monitor 3's (tall) in front with a matching center. Monitor 2.5 (same speaker- bookshelf size) in L/R rear and I just picked up two of their Radius 90's for my L/R surrounds. I am using an HSU sub...

7.1 here I come...

Sounds good (pun intended!) :)

The 59avi is a nice addition too. ;)

Can someone please tell me what the latest version of the firmware for this player is?

How does the firmware get upgraded... can I do this on my own like the panny?

If not - what has the experience been getting firmware upgrades turned around?

thanks in advance.

Brian

Mine is 516, build date Jan '05, so there could very well be something later than this. To get an up-grade, my understanding is that you have to ship the unit back to Pioneer, and there is a charge for it. Since this player has been discontinued, though, I'm not sure if they will still be doing this.

Since this player has been discontinued, though, The 59avi has not been discontinued. You can still buy a new 45a. The 47ai has been retired recently.

Also, millerwill, equipment lists in sigs are discouraged here at AVS. If one of the super mods sees it, there's a good chance it will be deleted. There's a place in your profile for equipment.

larry

The 59avi has not been discontinued. You can still buy a new 45a. The 47ai has been retired recently.

Also, millerwill, equipment lists in sigs are discouraged here at AVS. If one of the super mods sees it, there's a good chance it will be deleted. There's a place in your profile for equipment.

larry

You sure it hasn't been discontinued? I asked about one at tweeter and the only ones they had left were at individual stores. There were none their warehouse and they were on closeout and marked down about 250.00 less than a new 79AVi.

Also, millerwill, equipment lists in sigs are discouraged here at AVS. If one of the super mods sees it, there's a good chance it will be deleted. There's a place in your profile for equipment.

larry

Oops, didn't know that. I had assumed that it was useful info, so that people would know where your comments were coming from. But anyway, I've deleted it.

The DV-59AVi is officially discontinued from Pioneer, however, some dealers may still have a few units left.

BTW, as of today (Wednesday), I still have access to a single new 59AVi through a dealer if anyone is looking for one. PM me.

Just received my 59avi (the build date on it is Sept 05).

I picked it up from an online retailer who I have purchased many items before. Hence, there is a solid level of trust with these guys.

The Box containing the unit was was well packed in a secondary shipping box.

Here is my problem, when opening the Pioneer branded box (containing the player), the unit was giggling around within the foam braces. It literally had 1.5" of giggle room up and down in the pioneer packed box.

As this is my first pioneer product purchase, can anyone tell me if this is typical of Pioneer's packaging?

Brian

The DV-59AVi is officially discontinued from Pioneer, however, some dealers may still have a few units left.

BTW, as of today (Wednesday), I still have access to a single new 59AVi through a dealer if anyone is looking for one. PM me.Wow, Robert, you've been scarce. I was going by what was still posted on the website. At a "high level" looking down, it doesn't make much sense to keep the 59avi around with the 79avi being the same price and feature superset.

larry

I've got a question for those in the know..if I can figure out how to ask it...

When outputting 1080i over HDMI, does the 59 output something simple for a tv to deinterlace without alternating flags or anything like that, that can cause artifacts? I mean, is it something that will require a basic deinterlacing that can easily be done with 3:2 pulldown. Or, does it just pass everything along? My tv is a Sony SXRD 1080p, which most of you know doesn't accept a 1080p input. Judging by how great it looks watching a OTA source broadcasting in 1080i (like a football game) I would say the deinterlacer is pretty good. 720p broadcasts look good too so I suppose it scales well also.
This info may be in the manual but, my dog got mine and I haven't received my replacement yet..

Hello...I've got the 59avi connected to Sony 60xs955 using the hdmi cable. For the past year have had it set on 1080i and watched lots of dvd movies with no visible artifacts (to my untrained eye). Recently purchased Buffy the Vampire Slayer series on dvd (my first dvd tv series...a great buy on all seven seasons) and have been seeing what I think is 'combing'...quick flash of straight lines kind of like a flag.

Through trial and error I found that setting the 59avi to 480i eliminates the combing while none of the other settings do (720p, 1080i, 480p).

I'm curious if anyone might know why this combing effect is visible in the first place...is a tv series a different format than a movie? Is there a logical reason as to why the 480i setting seems to eliminate the combing while 480p and the rest do not? I'd be curious as to the settings that any other owners of xs955 are using. Thanks in advance for any assistance.

Manual... at your service:

http://www.sonydigital-link.com/manuals/manuals.asp?l=en&c=HV

Just enter VPL-VW100 in the model number and you will be all set.

That's the best i can do.

BG


I've got a question for those in the know..if I can figure out how to ask it...

When outputting 1080i over HDMI, does the 59 output something simple for a tv to deinterlace without alternating flags or anything like that, that can cause artifacts? I mean, is it something that will require a basic deinterlacing that can easily be done with 3:2 pulldown. Or, does it just pass everything along? My tv is a Sony SXRD 1080p, which most of you know doesn't accept a 1080p input. Judging by how great it looks watching a OTA source broadcasting in 1080i (like a football game) I would say the deinterlacer is pretty good. 720p broadcasts look good too so I suppose it scales well also.
This info may be in the manual but, my dog got mine and I haven't received my replacement yet..

When outputting 1080i over HDMI, does the 59 output something simple for a tv to deinterlace without alternating flags or anything like that, that can cause artifacts?

Yep, at that point it should be 60 Hz pure video mode -- no flags, cadence, pulldown, etc. The messy business is taken care of by the player before upconverting.

Wow, Robert, you've been scarce. I was going by what was still posted on the website. At a "high level" looking down, it doesn't make much sense to keep the 59avi around with the 79avi being the same price and feature superset.

Oh, I've been around, just not posting a great deal. Mostly in the projector areas the past several months.

At first glance, it would seem the 79 has made the 59 obsolete, and for most people, that would indeed be the case. However, I recently had an offer on my region-free Denon 3910 that I couldn't pass up and I decided that instead of another 3910, I'd give the Pioneer Elite a go. I intended to get the 79AVi, and I had one 59AVi left at work. I brought the 59 home before the 79 came in, and after talking to Kris Deering about both players, and after running the 59 through its paces myself, I kept the 59. I now have th 79 at work to compare to, and I don't think I'll be trading "up" any time soon.

Yep, at that point it should be 60 Hz pure video mode -- no flags, cadence, pulldown, etc. The messy business is taken care of by the player before upconverting.

That's what I was hoping.

I'm glad I bought this player. I know I am going to love it. Hope it lasts a long time. One of the reasons I went ahead and bought it, aside from the good reviews, is that I am afraid with blue-ray and HD-dvd on the horizon, that they will not perform as well with older discs since their primary function will be to play the high-def formats.

I might go slumming for a 59 if the price is right :)

I might go slumming for a 59 if the price is right :)

I picked up a 6 month old used one on Audiogon for $600 and it is mint. You should look there and also ebay. I have seen several that were being sold because the owner had upgraded to a 79. I saw your 79 on audiogon didn't I? If you can find a new one somewhere, I'd bet you can get it for $750 or something close to that. Why don't you PM Robert George from a few posts up. He says as of today he has one left..

Oh, I've been around, just not posting a great deal. Mostly in the projector areas the past several months.

At first glance, it would seem the 79 has made the 59 obsolete, and for most people, that would indeed be the case. However, I recently had an offer on my region-free Denon 3910 that I couldn't pass up and I decided that instead of another 3910, I'd give the Pioneer Elite a go. I intended to get the 79AVi, and I had one 59AVi left at work. I brought the 59 home before the 79 came in, and after talking to Kris Deering about both players, and after running the 59 through its paces myself, I kept the 59. I now have th 79 at work to compare to, and I don't think I'll be trading "up" any time soon.

Thanks for the remarks.

How do you like the 59avi compared to the 3910? Did you have any MB problems with the 3910?

I might go slumming for a 59 if the price is right :)

Dude, make up your mind! ;)

You had a 59avi before, didn't you?

Dude, make up your mind! ;)

You had a 59avi before, didn't you?

Yup, should have kept it but then I wouldn't have the audio I was looking for...and at the time the wife was always watching. ;) Now I got her tamed and I'm looking to replace a 2200 for a 2nd setup.

Guys.. I can''t find an earlier post on this so I'll ask again./

Just gave my S97 the boot and my new 59avi is in its place.

The stange thing I am finding is a quick pink flash between menu s and when I first put the disk in as it is being loaded.

Is this the infamous CUE bug? If not, can someone please give me a hint on how to stop this.

I am hooked up via HDMI and Component to a Panny 50phd7uy.

Thanks

Brian

any ideas on tests to run based on all that has been said on these 2 players?

Gladiator 62-64 minute mark where vertical pan takes place. YC delay test pattern on avia.

How do you like the 59avi compared to the 3910? Did you have any MB problems with the 3910?

Surprisingly, I like the Pio better than I thought I would. I was hoping for something no worse that the 3910, but I was a bit surprised that I see some improvement in color reproduction, and after some tweaking, a slightly smoother image. The Pio also responds to most remote commands a bit quicker. I like it.

I never had a MB problem with the 3910 in my system. Also, I have found no problems with the 59AVi either.

Surprisingly, I like the Pio better than I thought I would. I was hoping for something no worse that the 3910, but I was a bit surprised that I see some improvement in color reproduction, and after some tweaking, a slightly smoother image. The Pio also responds to most remote commands a bit quicker. I like it.

I never had a MB problem with the 3910 in my system. Also, I have found no problems with the 59AVi either.

Thanks for the reply.

I did a direct A/B comparison with the 3910, and chose the 59avi because of better color reproduction and no MB issues. I love my 59avi.....still!

Is the 59avi much of an improvement over the Panasonic XP-30 in terms of video quality? Has anyone here owned both players or have done any comparisons? I would like to know as I am considering the 59avi.

George - how are you running your 59avi... component or HDMI? Ar you going direct to TV or using some kind of offboard scaler?

Please advise.

Brian.

P.S. - if you have the time to detail your settings it would be greatly appreciated.

Surprisingly, I like the Pio better than I thought I would. I was hoping for something no worse that the 3910, but I was a bit surprised that I see some improvement in color reproduction, and after some tweaking, a slightly smoother image. The Pio also responds to most remote commands a bit quicker. I like it.

I never had a MB problem with the 3910 in my system. Also, I have found no problems with the 59AVi either.

I am benching out the 79avi and 59avi now and this weekend.

I am curious what settings people would suggest would be the optimum ones to test on the 59avi on a Pioneer 503 plasma, 3rd gen plasma if anyone has this combination or another Pioneer plasma and wishes to share their settings.

I have to again add, the 59avi , like the 79avi has NO macroblocking showing up on the plasma, that is very very nice! :D

I am curious what settings people would suggest would be the optimum ones to test on the 59avi

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5439426&&#post5439426

I am benching out the 79avi and 59avi now and this weekend.

I am curious what settings people would suggest would be the optimum ones to test on the 59avi on a Pioneer 503 plasma, 3rd gen plasma if anyone has this combination or another Pioneer plasma and wishes to share their settings.

I have to again add, the 59avi , like the 79avi has NO macroblocking showing up on the plasma, that is very very nice! :D

I believe that AVfile's recommendation has to do with Component connections. I'm hoping that you use HDMI, since that's where the 59 is supposed to really shine (according to Kris' original Secrets report). And here the best settings are pretty much OTB.

George - how are you running your 59avi... component or HDMI? Ar you going direct to TV or using some kind of offboard scaler?

Both, actually. That's one of the reasons I like the 59AVi over the Denon. With the 3910, component and HDMI are not active at the same time. My system has a 65" Mits CRT rear projector with component input and I also have a Sony HS51A LCD front projector that has HDMI. I run component to the Mits and HDMI direct to the Sony. The HDMI output is set for 720P and the component out is, obviously, 480P.

P.S. - if you have the time to detail your settings it would be greatly appreciated.

I'll get back to you on that. I'm at work right now.

BATMAN Returns Menu System.

I am curious if anyone has noticed horrible banding in the menu background. This is particularly evident when the city scenes run behind the menu itself.

Brian

I believe that AVfile's recommendation has to do with Component connections. I'm hoping that you use HDMI, since that's where the 59 is supposed to really shine (according to Kris' original Secrets report). And here the best settings are pretty much OTB.


Yes, I am only testing both the 79avi and 59avi over the HDMI connections, what is interesting is that I seem to have firmware 1.526 on 59avi, I think I saw a thread speculating this firmware existed, well it does, its a May05 build.

ZZ,

I tried an earlier listed method for getting the firmware version to appear... I have been unsuccessful.

Can you please tell me what approach you followed to get the firmware version to show. My Build is Sept 05.
----------------


Yes, I am only testing both the 79avi and 59avi over the HDMI connections, what is interesting is that I seem to have firmware 1.526 on 59avi, I think I saw a thread speculating this firmware existed, well it does, its a May05 build.

Yes, I am only testing both the 79avi and 59avi over the HDMI connections, what is interesting is that I seem to have firmware 1.526 on 59avi, I think I saw a thread speculating this firmware existed, well it does, its a May05 build.

1.526 is the latest one I've heard of. (Mine is 516, build date Jan '05.) Looks like you can begin to make a pretty complete table of firmware vs. build date.

1.526 is the latest one I've heard of. (Mine is 516, build date Jan '05.) Looks like you can begin to make a pretty complete table of firmware vs. build date.


Mine is a Mar '05 build. When I checked the firmware looked like this,"1.506(16)". Does that mean it has 506 or 516?

ZZ,

I tried an earlier listed method for getting the firmware version to appear... I have been unsuccessful.

Can you please tell me what approach you followed to get the firmware version to show. My Build is Sept 05.
----------------

As per Rob's first post
From the Initial Settings Menu, go down to the Options section. While in Options, hit the Display button on your remote. The firmware will be listed.


Mine is a Mar '05 build. When I checked the firmware looked like this,"1.506(16)". Does that mean it has 506 or 516?

You have 506

FYI when I sent my unit to Pioneer for a firmware upgrade in the Spring of 2005 (from 406 to 506) they did not reply to any questions of what each incremental upgrade did (or fixed). At that time 516 was on European units (DVi868) only. I doubt I'll be sending my unit off again for an upgrade as I am extremely happy with it.

Mine is a Mar '05 build. When I checked the firmware looked like this,"1.506(16)". Does that mean it has 506 or 516?

Hmmm, not sure. The printing on mine is Jan '05 and firmware # listed is 1.516 (16).

There has been conjecture (earlier in this thread I think), that indeed, the 1.306, 1.406, and 1.506 releases are global releases, and that the middle digit is region specific. 1.516, etc. Interesting now that if 1.526 is showing up here.

Anyone running one of these into the Pioneer 503 plasma by chance? or anyone else want to contribute their settings if they use the 59avi on a plasma?

I have two 59 AVI's, and thought I should report in:

Build date: June 2005 Firmware: 1.526
Build date: September 2005 Firmware: TBD, but assume it is 1.526

There was a previous post where the writer attempted to correlate the serial numbers with build date year and month, but my players don't match the logic presented in that post. :p

Mark

Mine is 1.516, Jan '05 build date; so it's consistent with yours.

Mine is March 2005 with firmware 1.506. What gives?

Mine is March 2005 with firmware 1.506. What gives?

Now that IS strange. ??? Mine had been a display model at Magnolia; perhaps they up-dated the firmware when they had it.

Mine is March 2005 with firmware 1.506. What gives?

Now, if Jim's is correct and mine is correct, that means they went from 1.506 in March 2005 to 1.526 in June 2005? So 1.516 was only for April or May 2005? Seems strange. Read on for my purchase story, which makes me question the authenticity of my build date and firmware version.

I purchased both players on the internet, one in November, and one this month. The first one was not an authorized Pioneer dealer. I remember they claimed it was new, not refurbished, but when it arrived, the S/N sticker had been torn from the box. Also, there was no firewire cable, warranty card (obviously), so it all seemed kinda shady. The second one I bought recently from Etronics, an authorized dealer, I believe...it came with the warranty card this time. Yes, yes...I learned my lesson.

Mark

Now, if Jim's is correct and mine is correct, that means they went from 1.506 in March 2005 to 1.526 in June 2005? So 1.516 was only for April or May 2005? Seems strange. Read on for my purchase story, which makes me question the authenticity of my build date and firmware version.

I purchased both players on the internet, one in November, and one this month. The first one was not an authorized Pioneer dealer. I remember they claimed it was new, not refurbished, but when it arrived, the S/N sticker had been torn from the box. Also, there was no firewire cable, warranty card (obviously), so it all seemed kinda shady. The second one I bought recently from Etronics, an authorized dealer, I believe...it came with the warranty card this time. Yes, yes...I learned my lesson.

Mark

Are your firmware versions listed like this? 1.526(16)

You didn't have problems from the one you purchased from an unauthorized dealer did you. Was the serial number still on the player? Bummer about the firewire cable. They should have left that in there. Unless it is a huge purchase, I have never worried about buying from unauthorized dealers. I have always had good luck and have never had to have anything serviced..

Are your firmware versions listed like this? 1.526(16)

You didn't have problems from the one you purchased from an unauthorized dealer did you. Was the serial number still on the player? Bummer about the firewire cable. They should have left that in there. Unless it is a huge purchase, I have never worried about buying from unauthorized dealers. I have always had good luck and have never had to have anything serviced..

Jim, the firmware is listed as 1.526(16). I have not had any problems with the one purchased from the unauthorized dealer, and the serial number, build date, etc. was still on the player. I suppose I should hook up the one I just bought and make sure it works...it will be awhile before my basement is finished.

Mark

I have been playing with both the 79avi and the 59avi for a few weeks. I just read the 79avi review over at Secrets where it failed a fair number of tests, the 59avi did not. So, my 79avi is going back and the 59avi is going into the cherished spot for whatever is my current #1 dvd player model.

I do think the colors on the 79avi are more lifelike and saturated, especially skin tones, but I would worried about all those issues they found showing up on viewing material somewhere down the road.

Know what I say?

Sometimes newer isn't necessarily better.

:)

Know what I say?

Sometimes newer isn't necessarily better.

:)

Well in this case you are right, though since its Pioneers new top of the line, I hope they at least put out some fixes, the number of tests it failed is kind of ridiculous for a new model, and even more so when you consider its 59avi plus improvements on the hardware in many ways, or at least was supposed to be.

It does have better audio support though, that much is clear, it supports more audio formats in one player.

Well in this case you are right, though since its Pioneers new top of the line, I hope they at least put out some fixes, the number of tests it failed is kind of ridiculous for a new model, and even more so when you consider its 59avi plus improvements on the hardware in many ways, or at least was supposed to be.

It does have better audio support though, that much is clear, it supports more audio formats in one player.

ZZ, I don't understand your last statement. What audio formats does the 79 support that the 59 doesn't? Just curious. Thanks.

Doug

My DV-59AVI won't play. When I insert a DVD, a number will show on the front and it will go dark without playing. Has anyone else experienced this problem. If I can fix it myself without taking it for warranty repair, let me know.

Can you tell the build date of the player from the outside of the box? Listed anywhere near the serial number maybe?

Can you tell the build date of the player from the outside of the box? Listed anywhere near the serial number maybe?

It couldn't be any easier. I think it says something like "manufactured on xx/xx/xx"!

It couldn't be any easier. I think it says something like "manufactured on xx/xx/xx"!

Thanks Rob.

What is the consensus amoung 59avi owners for obtaining the best stereo 2ch only analog sound from this player? Using the multi-outs (L/R) or the dedicated stereo outputs?

I think I remember somewhere that they said that there's something different (i.e., "better") about the stereo outputs. Maybe audio asylum or somewhere. Maybe even here, a while back. Shoot, the Russian guy who knows all about DACs n' such.

I think I remember somewhere that they said that there's something different (i.e., "better") about the stereo outputs. Maybe audio asylum or somewhere. Maybe even here, a while back. Shoot, the Russian guy who knows all about DACs n' such.

Ahhh.. found something from some posts about a year ago here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5170305&&#post5170305).

Hi Robert,

I am in the process of getting an used 59Avi for my Sony HS60 on a 92" Stewart Studiotek 130 screen. My connection will be HDMI n it seems my setup will be similar to yours. Do you mind to share your calibration setting with me, both on 59Avi n HS60 ? Thanks for your assistance in advance.

Alex







Both, actually. That's one of the reasons I like the 59AVi over the Denon. With the 3910, component and HDMI are not active at the same time. My system has a 65" Mits CRT rear projector with component input and I also have a Sony HS51A LCD front projector that has HDMI. I run component to the Mits and HDMI direct to the Sony. The HDMI output is set for 720P and the component out is, obviously, 480P.



I'll get back to you on that. I'm at work right now.

Finally have the unit on hand. I hope you guys can tell me how to check the firmware on the unit, since manu-date was Nov.2003. Also, where can I find the latest firmware. After I do it, will I lose the all-zone feature. Thank you in advance for the assistance.

Finally have the unit on hand. I hope you guys can tell me how to check the firmware on the unit, since manu-date was Nov.2003. Also, where can I find the latest firmware. After I do it, will I lose the all-zone feature. Thank you in advance for the assistance.

Here's how to check the firmware version:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=4970994&&#post4970994

As far as I know the only way to get a different firmware version is to send the unit back to Pioneer. It cannot be upgraded by us users.

Mike

Mike is correct. The unit would need to be sent to Pioneer to get a different firmware version. Since there is no consensus on what the different firmware versions even do, it is probably not worth the hassle.

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the tips. Is there anything I should do on the Pio during calibration with my Sony HS60 projector on a Stewart 130 screen ?

Alex

Just checked n my version is 306 which is probably the oldest one. Anybody notice problem with this version ???

Yes. My dealer had a Nov 2003 / version 306 that I tried out and it did not look good. I can't remember the exact problems with the picture but I think you should check for chroma delay using AVIA Y/C timing test pattern. Adjust the chroma delay in the player's video options accordingly, and of course follow the other tweaks that have been posted here many times.

Thanks for the tip. However, I do not have an Avia disc. Can you tell briefly what to look for on Chroma delay, for example, on which scene of a 'StarWar 3' dvd disc.
Appreciate your assistance.

Thanks for the tip. However, I do not have an Avia disc. Can you tell briefly what to look for on Chroma delay, for example, on which scene of a 'StarWar 3' dvd disc.
Appreciate your assistance.


It would be hard to spot minor chroma delay on anything but test patterns. You'd have to have a virtually still image, and then it would show up as a color bleed at hard edge transitions.

Will denon link receivers work with 59 avi pio. link as I would pefer the 3806 denon over the 74 elite if given the choice? Mike

Will denon link receivers work with 59 avi pio. link as I would pefer the 3806 denon over the 74 elite if given the choice? Mike

iLink is installed only in the 74, not the 3806. You'd need to upgrade to Denon's 4806 to get iLink. DenonLink3 is available on the 3806, but requires a Denon DVD player, not the 59. Any HDMI 1.1 player will get you a digital link in all these receiver models, though, but not for SACD.

thanks ted_b thats what I needed to know. mike

I just bought a DV-59AVi today at best buy. The first thing I did was to open it up. I have to say that for a player that used to have an MSRP at $ 1700 the build quality is cheapish. Not even close to for example DV-AX10 or my old SONY 9000ES.

I noticed that its using a switch mode power supply usually found in lesser gear like Malata and such.

I checked the part number for the P/S board and it seams to be the same as for the european and asian model. Does that mean that this P/S is multi voltage ? It is a switch mode so in theory it could be.

Anyone has the service manual and the time to check this?

Next step is to make the player region free and start testing it.

Best regards /// Carl-Fredrik

Can someone tell me if enabling the iLink option disables the analog outputs?

Yes, on page 22 of the manual it says" When the i.LINK indicator is lit on the front panel (see Front panel on page 26), no audio is output from the other digital or
analog audio jacks."

Yes, on page 22 of the manual it says" When the i.LINK indicator is lit on the front panel (see Front panel on page 26), no audio is output from the other digital or
analog audio jacks."

Thanks Ted. I looked through the manual (p.86), but missed that section.

I just bought a DV-59AVi today at best buy. The first thing I did was to open it up. I have to say that for a player that used to have an MSRP at $ 1700 the build quality is cheapish. Not even close to for example DV-AX10 or my old SONY 9000ES.

I noticed that its using a switch mode power supply usually found in lesser gear like Malata and such.

I checked the part number for the P/S board and it seams to be the same as for the european and asian model. Does that mean that this P/S is multi voltage ? It is a switch mode so in theory it could be.

Anyone has the service manual and the time to check this?

Next step is to make the player region free and start testing it.

Best regards /// Carl-Fredrik

I thought the 59avi WAS region free? Several web sites list it as region free in the specs even. Is this a mistake or did they change that?

Its not regionfree. There are websites selling already modified players. I am going to order a plug mod for mine so I can skip trailers.

///CF

I am going to order a plug mod for mine so I can skip trailers.///CF
What is a "plug mod" :confused: I hate trailers.

What is a "plug mod" :confused: I hate trailers.
Probably referring to this from a few pages back #1355:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6868369&&#post6868369

I just got a march 2005 build and the firmware is .526. Region 1 player, USA. Not sure if this helps or confuses things in regards to firmware.

I did a head to head with my Denon 3910 @ 480p component. Pic on the 59avi was very good, it would be hard to tell them apart. Using Avia, the 59avi did show .07 chroma delay on all but the red channel via component. 3910 was pretty much spot on.

The audio was good, but the 3910 bested it in two channel. Vocals had a warmer, more robust sound. I did a lot of A/Bing, and preferred both CD and SACD on the Denon everytime.

Still, the 59avi is a steal IMO at current street prices. The feature set and quality are hard to catch, even at 2-3X the price.

It sounds more like a head-to-head calibration since you did not say much on their difference in picture quality. :confused: :confused: :confused:

It sounds more like a head-to-head calibration since you did not say much on their difference in picture quality. :confused: :confused: :confused:


My set has been recently ISF'd by forum member Cheezmo and optimized for 480p (one of it's native scan rates). Other than dropping the 59avi's IRE down to 0.0, and changing deinterlacing to Auto2, there's not a lot of calibration to do. As tested, both of them have relatively correct output voltages, and monkey'ing around with the Hue and Sharpness, etc., of each of the players' controls is bound to cause more harm than good.

Head to head, you can check for color saturation, detail, deinterlacing performance and macroblocking (!). Other than the most minor case of MB on one scene in Bug's Life, the 3910 was solid compared to the 59avi.

Thanks for the info, just wonder what kind of screen n projector are you using.

Also, did you have a chance to compare the picture quality between 59 n 79 ?

Thanks for the info, just wonder what kind of screen n projector are you using.

Also, did you have a chance to compare the picture quality between 59 n 79 ?


No opportunity to do a comparison to the 79avi, I'll leave that to Kris Deering and the Secrets folks ;)

My set is a 55" Mitsubish Diamond CRT rear projection, model WS-55908.

However, after I acquire an used 59Avi here, the picture quality is still not as good as my Marantz 7600, thru HDMI. The Marantz really give me that 3-dimension look on a lot good quality dvd titles, like StarWar 3, but not on the Pioneer. If you have a chance, check out the 7600.

However, after I acquire an used 59Avi here, the picture quality is still not as good as my Marantz 7600, thru HDMI. The Marantz really give me that 3-dimension look on a lot good quality dvd titles, like StarWar 3, but not on the Pioneer.

If you have a chance, check out the 7600, since this is a model that came out 2 years after the Pio, maybe technology really catch up on the 59Avi.

I can't believe that I found this, but I did. :) I just got an HDMI capable display, and I remembered that there was some really cool HDMI setting suggestions earlier in this thread. Post 1242 to be exact (although I need to see if there's anything else).

Rob- Could you add this to the 1st post, the way that you have the Black info (#348) and the firmware check, etc?

Thanks! Very useful thread even to some of us longtime owners! :D


Quick sidenote is that I'm still looking for the "last, best SD DVD player" for myself. (I've posted before that I'm going to sit out HD-DVD and Blu-ray until it's clear that there's a winner, or if either one actually becomes a mass market force.) I've already knocked the Denon 5910 off the list (too expensive), the 79AVi (the 59AVi is a better video player), the Yamaha 2500 (MB), and the Onkyo 1000 (lip sync, and I remember problems with blacker than black and green push mentioned; 3910 is also gone because of comments about the green, and reliability). Really, the last one is the Marantz 9600. So the 1st thought is now I'm getting nervous that with all of the info we have to best calibrate the 59AVi, that I could get a "better" player, but that I might not be able to calibrate it to its fullest. :) The 2nd thought is that, the 9600 is actually based on the 59AVi, so I wonder if the best settings here would work for that player too? ;)

I added post 1242 to the first page Kevin, but note that those settings were only confirmed for 480i output, so we aren't sure if they would have the same effect at 720p etc.

Hi, Rob.

I tested these settings with 480p, 720p and 1080i as well with the same results, so they are universal.

Hi, Rob.

I tested these settings with 480p, 720p and 1080i as well with the same results, so they are universal.

Excellent!

I will change the original post. Thanks Carl!

Carl- You're still here. Thanks so much for your hard work in coming up with those settings. Now ... I just need an HDMI cable! :) (I thought the i.Link cable that came withe 59AVi that I tucked away when I first got it was an HDMI cable... Never got one.)

and the Onkyo 1000 (lip sync, and I remember problems with blacker than black and green push mentioned) Just keeping things straight: The BTB problem was only with HDMI->DVI and was fixed in first firmware update. There was never a "green push" issue that I recall. Unfortunately the random lip synch issue kept this player from being a big winner - taking the chance scares away a lot of people.

larry

I added post 1242 to the first page Kevin, but note that those settings were only confirmed for 480i output, so we aren't sure if they would have the same effect at 720p etc.


Rob, you may want to add the discovery of firmware versions 516 and 526 to the main page, for completeness sake.

Larry- Acknowledged. :) But I do remember at least one person mentioning the green push early on. Maybe their setup, I don't know.


Hey all- When I hook up the 59AVi to a Panny plasma via HDMI, I won't have access to the Color and Tint controls on the plasma. (Component, S-video yes, HDMI no, disabled.) Will I have to adjust things in the player? Or might it be correct as-is without any adjustment necessary?

Hey all- When I hook up the 59AVi to a Panny plasma via HDMI, I won't have access to the Color and Tint controls on the plasma. (Component, S-video yes, HDMI no, disabled.) Will I have to adjust things in the player? Or might it be correct as-is without any adjustment necessary?
Assuming you are using the commercial model Panny, it will be correct as-is. Color and Tint controls only affect the conversion from Component->RGB. Since the DV59Avi is doing the conversion, sending RGB data to the Panny, the controls are not applicable. Any set implementing Color/Tint when fed RGB data are incorrectly designed IMHO. That normally means that the set is converting RGB BACK TO COMPONENT internally, and then back to RGB for driving the pixels. Not a good idea.

Assuming you calibrate the grayscale to D65, your colors will be accurate. Calibrated a Panny yesterday, and it was spot on.

csundbom,

Can you confirm if the 59AVi correctly maps the DVD colorspace to SMPTE 274M standards when upscaling to 720p/1080i or leaves the image in NSTC SMPTE 170M at those higher resolutions?

csundbom,

Can you confirm if the 59AVi correctly maps the DVD colorspace to SMPTE 274M standards when upscaling to 720p/1080i or leaves the image in NSTC SMPTE 170M at those higher resolutions?
Wish I could, but I have no device that accepts Component data over HDMI. Since I always receive RGB data from the player, the conversion has already been done internally. Once in RGB colorspace, the questions becomes moot. Maybe someone else can test it?

Wish I could, but I have no device that accepts Component data over HDMI. Since I always receive RGB data from the player, the conversion has already been done internally. Once in RGB colorspace, the questions becomes moot. Maybe someone else can test it?


Ok. One further question: then if you pick RGB for HDMI output at 720p/1080i, the colorspace is always correct (this part I understand), then why do many recommend using YCrCb for HDMI output of other players (i.e. Denon 3910).

Is it because RGB can only be 8-bit whereas YCrCb can be 10-bit if the video processor within the player supports it?

Ok. One further question: then if you pick RGB for HDMI output at 720p/1080i, the colorspace is always correct (this part I understand), then why do many recommend using YCrCb for HDMI output of other players (i.e. Denon 3910).

Is it because RGB can only be 8-bit whereas YCrCb can be 10-bit if the video processor within the player supports it?
The content on the DVD disc is 8-bit. There may be further processing inside the DVD player, video processor or display that could use the extra bits to avoid rounding errors. I can imagine cases where upscaling DVD players could use the extra bits to make smoother transitions in the interpolated data (480i->720p/1080i). I use an external video processor, so I output 480i myself. In that case, it would not make a difference if I use 8, 10 or 12 bits of data, assuming the DVD player outputs the values that are on the DVD. You have to look at the whole signal chain (including the internal processing in the display) to figure out if the extra bits get you anything.

Hi Carl,

Is the HDMI output on 59Avi a 4:4:4 or 4:2:2 ? It is not switchable in this Pio unit, but my other player, Marantz 7600, has that selection n will benefit from the 12-bit video processing in my Sony HS-60 projector..


The content on the DVD disc is 8-bit. There may be further processing inside the DVD player, video processor or display that could use the extra bits to avoid rounding errors. I can imagine cases where upscaling DVD players could use the extra bits to make smoother transitions in the interpolated data (480i->720p/1080i). I use an external video processor, so I output 480i myself. In that case, it would not make a difference if I use 8, 10 or 12 bits of data, assuming the DVD player outputs the values that are on the DVD. You have to look at the whole signal chain (including the internal processing in the display) to figure out if the extra bits get you anything.